TIAI April 11

[bec]

Oooo! What a super-fab post Grace! I really like the diagram of storytelling as applied to the physical alleged events of 6/25/09.

I think we have cracked it. Hoax exposed MJ-- Oly Oly Oxen Free!  :lol:

[2good2btrue]

I don't think there would be a need to involve the sheriffs rescue helicopters team, or the police......

At this point of the hoax, when Mj's body was being transfered, two coroners get out of the van....THEY HAVE TO BE IN ON IT.  I think one is 'Craig Harvey and the other one Ed Winter....both need to know, because there either is NO BODY or whatever on that stretcher.......The rest of the crew there, don't have to know a thing..they just did their job.

[peacock7]

Great post Souza.  That is what I was getting at in my post below.  IT WAS ALL AN ILLUSION.  FICTION.  And still is.

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Great post Grace.  I love it.  I would re-post your and Souza's posts, but I personally don't like to quote posts that are wayyyyyyyyyy long.  Sometimes, it takes too long to load.

We have cracked the Code.  Unity Consciousness in action.

"Annie is you ok?"

[Andrea]

Where it was "filmed" Andrea? At Staples Center?

I answered that in my post scorpionchik - it was filmed at Carolwood before anyone knew Michael lived there - Souza had suggested that as well earlier.  It explains why hardly anybody was hanging about outside "Michael Jackson's" house when there's emergency vehicles outside for 40 minutes, and why only the Ben Evensted crew were there with no other paps.

So if anyone could successfully pull off a fake death, it would be the FBI.  They investigate this stuff and know the ins and outs of what needs to be done and the best way to do it.  Only they can get away with it because they’re the FBI.

 

Exactly, therefore I wrote above some important statement you should count.  
 
-   The helicopter crew are actors (just look at the action footage!) including an actor under the white sheet on the stretcher who sits up nicely for everybody keeping a close eye.

There is NO ACTORS if FBI is involved. Jeeze!

-    The  when it’s Michael Jackson and the FBI clueing you in.

Why FBI needs  cluing us? Are you people really believe that FBI is a Hollywood or some kind of cheap club of morons....? You have to be careful what you are talking about. Help Michael to hoax under Michael's direction/hoax plan to make sure all numerology is met, then make sure to give us  clues, but also make sure Michael's enemy's did not get  this is a hoax, what else....? You are controversing  theories all over. People, be serious.

I used the word "actors" because the FBI refers to paid actors on their website about the article on fake deaths which coincided with the one year anniversary of Michael's fake funeral.  The FBI know how to best pull off a fake death so if they deem paid actors necessary than maybe that's what they did.  Remember that they're the experts at death faking. And that was only one of my scenarios.  The FBI may not have used actors at all, maybe just their own agents.  And if that’s the case, the agents are “acting” in their roles.

And they leave clues to avoid entrapment.  The numerology leaves a path and shows deliberate planning. I never said Michael's enemies wouldn't figure it out but initially, they were probably fooled like the rest of the world.  And as the hoax gets more obvious, the intent of it shows it was not just to fool his enemies or prevent them from finding out.  The hoax is not just a sting and the FBI's involvement is only one aspect of the hoax.  The FBI help came in particularly useful on June 25th and the "other day" whenever that was.  The FBI helped Michael "pull it off".  We already know there was an "other day" thanks to Ben's slip-up.  I guess it's just figuring out what happened when.  If you don’t agree that’s fine but we’re all on the same team here trying to figure out what happened that day (and the other day).

And Grace – amazing post, all of it!  The 3 acts to story structure makes a lot of sense and TS even started this thread with “It’s now time for the third level!”  We’re trying to figure out how Michael succeeded and tying together all the loose ends to resolve what really happened (or didn’t happen) on June 25th. This is great, I think we're getting somewhere.

[Lemonbread904]

Guys, this may be off the topic. But looking at the picture with Tito, Marlon, Jermaine and Jackie, I have notice that Randy is nowhere to be found. Do you guys have any insights on why the majority of the pictures that are being presented is only showing those 4 brothers. It seems like the only time we hear anything about Randy it would be in regards to his ex-wife. It seems that he just dropped off the face of the earth.  Another thing that I find interesting is this, remember it was said that Randy was staying with Michael during the time leading up to 6/25/2009. It was even stated that he was at the house when it happened.

[wishingstar]

@Grace....very nice post, indeed.  Thank you very much for putting all that effort and hard work together....much appreciated.  One thing I consistently notice in these random YouTube videos of things afterwards....why do they all park on the street?  It's a huge driveway....wouldn't they want more privacy?  Being on the street for all to see, makes for some great, natural photo ops.  This question came up also about the moving van and the lady walking with the officer.    

@Souza.....your post was also very interesting and thought provoking.  Thank you, too, for all the effort and hard work here...again, very appreciated.

Blessings Always

[scorpionchik]

Why FBI needs  cluing us? Are you people really believe that FBI is a Hollywood or some kind of cheap club of morons....? You have to be careful what you are talking about. Help Michael to hoax under Michael's direction/hoax plan to make sure all numerology is met, then make sure to give us  clues, but also make sure Michael's enemy's did not get  this is a hoax, what else....? You are controversing  theories all over. People, be serious.

Scorpion, this is not the first time you ridicule someone else in a very rude way. If you have an opinion other than Andrea's, state it with respect and don't petronize people. And I am VERY serious about that.

I am not ridiculing, I am challenging statements,just my way.  I was getting a lot  same kind of replies also and let it go, not looking for shoulder to cry on. Discussion is discussion, could be hot, cold, different every time (except for assault); we are not here to pamper each other and definitely will understand eventually.  
However, you don't have to every time jump in as a BIASSED "advocate" and remind that you are an administrator with some sort of threating intonation, I remember that and certainly not afraid of it. It is funny.
Let me seriously remind you also that many very good members left this site because OF YOU, not me, including your partner Mo. Something to think about.

[~Souza~]

Why FBI needs  cluing us? Are you people really believe that FBI is a Hollywood or some kind of cheap club of morons....? You have to be careful what you are talking about. Help Michael to hoax under Michael's direction/hoax plan to make sure all numerology is met, then make sure to give us  clues, but also make sure Michael's enemy's did not get  this is a hoax, what else....? You are controversing  theories all over. People, be serious.

Scorpion, this is not the first time you ridicule someone else in a very rude way. If you have an opinion other than Andrea's, state it with respect and don't petronize people. And I am VERY serious about that.

I am not ridiculing, I am challenging statements,just my way.  I was getting a lot  same kind of replies also and let it go, not looking for shoulder to cry on. Discussion is discussion, could be hot, cold, different every time (except for assault); we are not here to pamper each other and definitely will understand eventually.  
However, you don't have to every time jump in as a BIASSED "advocate" and remind that you are an administrator with some sort of threating intonation, I remember that and certainly not afraid of it. It is funny.
Let me seriously remind you also that many very good members left this site because OF YOU, not me, including your partner Mo. Something to think about.

You just crossed a line. Time to cool down for a few days.

[Grace]

It's so nice to come back to old material and review it.
Honestly, it becomes a pleasure because we find so many more aspects in it.

OK, I was asking in my previous post under 5) what were on stake to have to prove that the story was made up (or from the opponent point of view: that Murray was guilty).
Under 9) I was asking whether authorities did execute a proper job as expected.

The following quotes may give an impression of what may be/was going on behind curtains and what it is that may really be at stake (looking only at one of potential exposure areas, not all of the b.m. is proven evidence).

Michael Jackson’s family disappointed with court ruling, says Randy Jackson
Posted by News2 on June 23, 2010 in Entertainment

MJ brother Randy JacksonLondon, June 23 (ANI): Legendary singer Michael Jackson’s youngest brother Randy Jackson has said that his family is disappointed with the court ruling in favour of the King of Pop’s doctor Conrad Murray.

The court allowed Murray to keep his medical licence after being charged for the ‘Thriller’ star’s death. Randy has said that he has faith in the judicial process.

His written statement came a week after a Los Angeles Superior Court judge declared that he did not have the authority to suspend the licence of Murray, reports The Mirror.

“The recent court proceedings have been difficult for us as a family,” Jackson wrote in his statement.

“However, it is a necessary process that we are well prepared to endure in our fight for justice for Michael,” he added.

The statement said the Jackson family was disappointed in the ruling, but expressed support for the California Attorney General”s office, which sought to suspend Murray”s medical licence until his case is decided.

“Despite our strong feelings about the outcome, we have continued respect and faith in Judge Michael Pastor, the Deputy District Attorney David Walgren and our judicial system,” said the statement. (ANI)

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I don't know what you felt reading the above but when somebody tells me that he's having continued respect and faith in a specific person due to his position in a system... well my alarm clocks went on immediately.
Looking up Mr. David Walgren brought me to the following interesting article.

Jackson Prosecutors' Internal War
by Gerald Posner
February 4, 2010 | 10:46pm

BS Top - Posner Chernoff Getty Images; AP Photo Will the L.A. District Attorney’s office blow yet another big case? Gerald Posner on the internal battles that helped delay the charges expected against Dr. Conrad Murray today. Plus, read Gerald Posner's report on Conrad Murray's defense attorney.

Will they blow it again?

The Los Angeles District Attorney's office, which has seen a two-decade streak of losing its highest-profile Hollywood cases, from Robert Blake to O.J. Simpson, is supposed to start its latest trial of the century today. So far, with Dr. Conrad Murray expected to turn himself in to face involuntary manslaughter charges, they're off to a rough start.

A retired senior Los Angeles police official and a Los Angeles-based defense attorney, both familiar with the specifics of the Michael Jackson death probe, describe a series of angry battles, encompassing which DA would handle the case, what charges should be brought and whether to go to a grand jury or have a preliminary hearing. This partly explains the long delay in moving forward with the case, which has puzzled so many observers. These fights, the sources said, even pitted prosecutors against their own Bureau of Investigation. Such accounts dovetail with a TMZ report yesterday that the DA's office has been feuding with the L.A. Police Department, and that today's anticipated arraignment of Dr. Murray might even be indefinitely postponed due to disagreements between the two about how he should be arrested and processed.

"They have no choice but to deliver an indictment or there would be hell to pay."

The defense attorney said that war among the prosecutors started last September, three months after the pop superstar died of a drug overdose. The first skirmish, a winner-take-all affair, featured two of the DA office's most powerful figures, Major Crimes's territorial chief, Patrick Dixon, and William Hodgman, the chief of Target Crimes. After Jackson's death, the Los Angeles police had dealt only with the Target Crimes Division, which describes itself as doing work on arson, crimes against peace officers, stalking and threat assessment, and child abductions. It is not clear why Target Crimes got the case in the first place. But Dixon was adamant that his Major Crimes unit, which handles all celebrity cases, should have jurisdiction. When Hodgman dug in his heels, the dispute escalated straight to the desk of the District Attorney, Steve Cooley.

• Gerald Posner: Conrad Murray’s Defense Attorney Is the Next Johnnie CochranCooley, the son of an FBI agent and a career prosecutor, is the first Los Angeles County District Attorney in 70 years to be re-elected to a third term. He has a no-nonsense reputation, and sided with Dixon, much to the chagrin of Target Crimes, which had by then put in more than two months of work.

Ed Chernoff, Murray’s Houston lawyer, knew around this time that there was something wrong when in late August, a Los Angeles police detective told him, “Hodgman is going to be taken off the case.”

“Why,” Chernoff asked.

“There’s something going on at the DA’s office.”

“I had a warm relationship with Hodgman,” Chernoff told me. The two exchanged information, and worked together in vain to try and stop the late August release of a sealed search warrant in Houston. Hodgman had even promised to call Chernoff and discuss the case before the DA settled on any charges.

The move to Major Crimes may have ended the fight over turf, but once it was there, more problems followed. David Walgren, a respected veteran who is also handling the Roman Polanski case, took on the assignment. He had no rapport with Chernoff as a starter.

“When I would call him and say, ‘Hi, this is Ed Chernoff. What’s going on?’ He would say, ‘No comment.’ I’m not kidding. He wouldn’t talk to me at all.”

Chernoff wasn’t the only one having trouble adjusting to Walgren. Throughout the fall, Walgren was at odds with Dominick Rivetti, Chief of the DA’s Bureau of Investigation. According to the former police official, who counts many current members of the DA's office as friends, some of Rivetti's investigators had dubbed the Jackson probe "a shit case," and thought that if it were not for public and family pressure, there might not even have been a probe.

"Eight months of a costly investigation, in a bankrupt state," one prominent defense attorney told me, "they have no choice but to deliver an indictment or there would be hell to pay."

The O.J. Simpson trial cost the state $9 million and Michael Jackson's $2.7 million child abuse trial ended in an acquittal. The Robert Blake murder trial, which ended in a "not guilty" jury verdict, cost the state an estimated $5 million between the investigation and the trial.

Walgren, according to the police official, had contentious meetings with Rivetti's investigators, sometimes irate that they were unable to draw a firm consensus on the medical evidence needed for a higher charge. He was also disappointed when he initially reviewed the police evidence, which reportedly included conflicting conversations with medical experts to determine whether Murray's behavior in his treatment of Jackson, especially on the fatal night, fell outside the bounds of reasonable medical practice. And he was disappointed, says the police official, to discover that investigators had determined that Murray's medical past did not include a large dispensing history of opiates or pain pills—the types that were prescribed in significant amounts to Jackson by other physicians.

The early debate in Major Crimes was whether to seek a murder indictment or merely involuntary manslaughter. Evidently, says the source, voluntary manslaughter was not seriously considered. "It either was going to be strong enough to go after a murder charge, or they were going to settle for the safest charge,"[/b] he says.

At one impassioned meeting last November, a member of the Bureau of Investigation is said to have told Walgren, "How are we going to convince 12 people to understand all the medical terminology and believe Propofol killed him when our experts don't even know for sure." It was a turning point in the internal debate over what charge to pursue. By December, the consensus was that involuntary manslaughter was the charge on which the office had the greatest chance of obtaining a conviction. Walgren, according to an attorney who knows him well, says he's always been an advocate that over-charging is problematic. "He'd rather get a conviction on a smaller count than have someone walk free on a headline grabbing indictment," says his friend.

As a consensus swirled around involuntary manslaughter, the next fight was over whether to proceed to a grand jury to obtain an indictment—preventing the defense from getting an advance look at the prosecution's case—or to bring the matter for a hearing before a judge, as was done in the O.J. Simpson case. According to the retired police official, Walgren urged that the case be presented to a grand jury but was overruled by Dixon.

Prosecutors often joke that they can get a grand jury—which only receives handpicked evidence—to indict a ham sandwich for a crime, but there was fear in the office that a grand jury might not find the evidence developed by the investigators to be compelling enough to issue an indictment.

"This may be one of those rare cases where a grand jury of ordinary citizens is not ready to attach criminal liability to the doctor," prominent Los Angeles defense attorney, Mark Geragos, tells me. "The DA might feel better off in front of a judge."

Also, if there are internal doubts about the strength of the case, and how best to present complicated medical testimony to a jury, the District Attorney might want to do a test run through a preliminary hearing and afterward make adjustments for the trial.

"They did that on the USC case (a 2007 infanticide case against a USC student)," Geragos adds. "I destroyed the coroner in the preliminary hearing, and they hired a new expert to repair the damage for the trial." In that case, the DA's plan didn't pay off. A trial judge dismissed the charges.

In overruling Walgren, says the former police official, Dixon and others also decided they gained a strategic advantage in a preliminary hearing. In Los Angeles court jurisdiction, a case brought by indictment goes to the downtown courts. One brought by a preliminary hearing will go before the LAX Court, which has a higher demographic of black jurors. Says the attorney who is a friend of Walgren's: "Since Michael Jackson has been totally embraced now by the black community, it's better for the prosecution to have a large black jury pool."

That preliminary hearing could be held as soon as 10 days after Murray's arraignment, but it's not expected for several weeks since the defense is likely to use that time to digest all the documents they will receive from the prosecutors after Murray is officially charged. From there, the Jackson drama will move from the private to the public domain. When asked for comment on the internal acrimony so far, Sandi Gibbons, the Los Angeles District Attorney Public Information Officer responded: "We would not comment on such unfounded drivel."


Gerald Posner is The Daily Beast's chief investigative reporter. He's the award-winning author of 10 investigative nonfiction bestsellers, on topics ranging from political assassinations, to Nazi war criminals, to 9/11, to terrorism. His latest book, Miami Babylon: Crime, Wealth and Power—A Dispatch from the Beach, was published in October. He lives in Miami Beach with his wife, the author Trisha Posner.

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This is what TMZ had to say:
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[bec]

Let me seriously remind you also that many very good members left this site because OF YOU, not me

And a whole bunch more of us STAY because of Souza. You are inconsequential with that attitude.

[Yulia]

I hope the thread will stay on topic because I am highly interested only in the FBI whole situation regarding Michael and nothing else. I suppose the rest of people are too

[PureLove]

FBI all over the hoax from A to Z with his plan, then no numerology would be used, or no FBI at all.

Because?

Because the numerology fits with the Michael's  longtime ago planned hoax only (in which case he realized hoax with his friends rewarding couple of doctors and paramedics, and real corpse would be used here) and FBI will NOT follow Michael's hoax plan. Michael is NOT FBI's boss. We can't downgrade authorities, they will do their job to save person, but they will not follow that person's directions and they don't care who is it. They have enough power to realize hoax without other body and numerology, they have their hoax plans in reserve. The haox purpose to fool MJ enemy, then the "fact he died" is more than enough for them to get buy the hoax. why humerelogy, I don't see the point to waste time following exact times, unnecessary stress. Look at the hoax as a very serious operation, not the  hide find seek game.

Yes I agree with you almost completely. I just cannot explain the 333 pages of FBI files released by the FBI on 12/21 though. That's spooky, just-not-right, weird, and it's unexplainable as just a "coincidence".

Additionally, MJ could never pull off a hoax of this magnitude with a TRIAL attached to it, by himself without involving very high up assistance (the feds), and most likely from the FBI, as they would retain jurisdiction over local and state police and fire. I know this is a hoax, so he had to have help from somewhere. This is why I am receptive to the FBI involvement theory.

On the previous thread of TS, I was confused about who gave us all these numerologic clues. I thought that TS was trying to say that the FBI is giving us the numerology and when I asked if it is FBI who arranged all the memorial and funeral and all of the numerology and he wrote back that Elvis also was with the feds but he used numerology too. So what I'm trying to say is, all these 333 FBI files, making 666 upside down 999 etc comes from Michael himself. The numerology was Michael's wish, not FBI's. But FBI is of course helping him with that like giving 333 pages of FBI files. That is what I understood about the numerology part of the hoax.

[PureLove]

I was watching the coroners press release, and  just realised he said "The only reason the coroner got involved was because no  doctor would sign the death certificate at the hospital      

So if Murray had signed the death certificate, and autopsy wouldn't be necessary.  Why didn't the drs at UCLA, the one that called the time of death, sign the certificate??  

Hmmmmmmmmmm...maybe they didn't recognise the patient..


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[youtube:182lhsd4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmdrNn3HZcY&feature=related[/youtube:182lhsd4]

Yes, when I first watched this I realized the same thing too 2good. Isn't it weird that ANY doctors signed it at UCLA? Why wouldn't they sign it? The only answer can be; because there was noone dead or someone dead but not Michael of course. So, the doctors knew something was going on.

[all4loveandbelieve]

I never said this before, but my uncle was murdered 22 yrs ago.  I never spoke about it  because it is not something I like to talk about  I was very close to my uncle. When they brought him at the hospital, he was barely alive. When he died, the doctor signed the death certificate, not my aunt or my cousins, THE DOCTOR.. My uncle was a known person, he was a commander at the police force. When they declared him dead, it was the doctor who spoke in front of the camera, not my aunt nor my cousins, nor me nor my sibling. So when I saw this on June 25/2009 I automatically said, Michael hoaxed his death. A sibling signing the death certificate, because no doctor wanted to? Why is that? Like my doctor friend said, because he is alive, a doctor will not sign a death certificate and jeopardize his career for anyone not even for Michael Jackson, with all due respect, we love Michael with all of our heart. Now if this is not clear, I do not know what can make you all see that 1) it was not him in the ambulance, 2) or he went to the hospital and he was alive and left the country, just like Jermaine said it, he was long gone way before he reached the AIRPORT. Blessings everyone.

[~Souza~]

LaToya didn't sign the DC, she was the witness. We don't know who signed it, because that part is blacked out.

Sorry to hear about your uncle.