Messages

ENOUGH.

<---------See the mod label?

Son, I don't know what you're trying to get at with that last paragraph but I don't like it. I think you should quit right now while you're ahead.

My point is to read, everything. Not just what justifies your beliefs. Non-fans do that to MJ and there's a parallel to Jesus in that respect. I don't post that often so don't get a hissy fit.

[In 'judging' Donte...and by all accounts you are when you say he is being disrespectful to his uncle....are you forgetting the "do not judge, lest ye be judged" (Matt 7:1) part of your traditional Christian doctrine or are you simply choosing what to believe and follow when it suits you?]

@son...You've stated that you have a traditional Christian background and that helps to understand where you're coming from, somewhat...since that in itself can mean a whole bunch of different things (it's all interpretative and relative).  I, too, grew up in a traditional Christian atmosphere...but in my later years, disassociated myself with the 'religion' aspect of it because I couldn't swallow the hypocrisy I saw all around me.  You say that people choose what they want to believe if it 'sounds right', and I agree....I also believe that many traditional Christians lead the way in that department.

You are putting Donte down for what YOU interpret him as saying/believing.  Have you ever spoken to Donte one on one? Have you even spent time trying to understand his perspective? Do you know how much or how little influence Mike had/has on Donte and his beliefs? In 'judging' Donte...and by all accounts you are when you say he is being disrespectful to his uncle....are you forgetting the "do not judge, lest ye be judged" (Matt 7:1) part of your traditional Christian doctrine or are you simply choosing what to believe and follow when it suits you?   If you are 'ok' in judging Donte over YOUR interpretation of what he means (which, IMO, a narrow viewpoint cannot understand correctly)...then you should also be 'ok' with being judged yourself....by Jesus' own statement.  In that regard, perhaps you are being disrespectful to Mike for passing judgement on his nephew whom you've never met and never walked a mile in his shoes....by Mike's own statement.

This is the main reason why I disassociated myself from religion...I found, and still find, that people use it as a tool/means to judge people by....which, IMO, is completely hypocritical of those who claim to follow Jesus and/or the Bible.  That quote that Mary posted by the Dalai Lama speaks volumes....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that man-made 'religions' have FAILED in achieving/fulfilling their purpose, which should have been peace, co-existence, respect, and love for all things.

"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High"
~Psalm 82:6

How does that fit into traditional Christian teachings?  Or does it just not 'sound right'?

With L.O.V.E. always.

You dug yourself a deeper whole and only illustrated my point when you quoted Matthew 7:1. Critics of Christianity never/seldom read the following verses  which clearly state "not to judge Hypocritically".

As far as the Psalms scripture goes, Jesus himself actually references it in the gospel of John after saying he is one with God (Read Chapter 10). Demonstrating that his claim wasn't blasphemy.

My point is religion or philosophy get a lot less subjective if people actually take the time to read it.

You could make the claim that a lack of thorough reading is one thing that still effects Michael's own public image. Would it simply be a person's opinion to believe if MJ was a pedophile? Or is it ignorance? A lot of people who think Michael was a pedophile have experiences and a perspective that many of us fans do not understand yet we're quick to correct them on that.

I think Donte means, "let's not let religion divide us".  Listen to what some of these prophets were "saying".  Spirituality and religion are different.  Religions are man made.   Think about the difference between the laws of men and the laws of God/nature.

God and nature are conflated. Another common theme throughout religion, spirituality, government and philosophy is trying to go beyond (or at least regulate) one's own nature. I'm pretty much a traditional Christian by most standards but I see with other religions that they become watered down as people pick and choose what part they want to follow. If you don't take any movement in it's entirety you'll never understand it. I could potentially make up a random quote and attribute it to a lot of these figures and a lot of you would believe it because it "sounds right". I think Donte is being disrespectful to his uncle by saying he is someone who is uncle didn't feel comfortable comparing himself to.

Also, I find it highly ironic that you base your opinion of Donte being 'wrong', based on 'Jesus' own statements'...and then follow that with a quote advising not to believe everything you read, including religious texts.

Perhaps this should be continued in the Donte thread?

With L.O.V.E. always.

That was a Buddha quote, use to distinguish the two (presuming everyone read the scriptures that were posted).

@son...I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Donte being 'wrong'...cause in order for me, or anyone, to make that claim about Donte (or anyone for that matter) we'd have to be 100% sure that we are, instead, right.  And the only thing I know I'm 100% 'right' about, is that I'm not 100% sure of much and don't know everything.

Just out of curiosity though...I'd be interested in what you believe Donte to be 'wrong' about, based on his own words...or better yet, your interpretation of his words.  Also, I find it highly ironic that you base your opinion of Donte being 'wrong', based on 'Jesus' own statements'...and then follow that with a quote advising not to believe everything you read, including religious texts.

Perhaps this should be continued in the Donte thread?

With L.O.V.E. always.

Donte "could be" right if were concerned with the accuracy of Jesus' statements but not the content statements themselves.  He also "could be" right if you want to take the perspective that Jesus' words were interpolated by the scripture writers (which complicates things and creates unnecessary division). However, what we know about Jesus comes from the scriptures in which Jesus teaches that his position is exclusively the correct one.  I'd much rather continue this in my religion/theology/spirituality group.

[For every Bible passage that could be found to show Donte being 'mistaken' or 'wrong' about his views on Jesus...there are other Bible passages to support his line of thinking.]

In all fairness to Donte, he has a different perspective than the 'traditional' Christian view, or any 'traditional' religious view.  He is very expressive of his beliefs on his blog/tumblr...and I, personally, find his views/perspectives/beliefs to be refreshing and quite in-line with my own on various topics.  For every Bible passage that could be found to show Donte being 'mistaken' or 'wrong' about his views on Jesus...there are other Bible passages to support his line of thinking.   The Bible in this case, and in all cases, being interpretive...much like each of our perspectives are relative to our 'knowledge' and experiences in this lifetime.

Based on Jesus' own statements Donte IS wrong. Know he is entitled to his own opinion, and whether Jesus' own claims were accurate is a matter of faith. Yet what Jesus said is what he said, that he was certain that his path was the correct path (unlike Buddha).

"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts."

You could argue whether Jesus intended to create a new religion or simply continue Judaism. Scholars seem to be on both sides to that argument but believers generally conflate the two (which is possibly the truth).

Wow, this is more popular than I thought it would be.

You're right. And he's dead. I guess we can all go home.

I never said that. My whole point is that it's a "mystery" to all of us. For me, the themes that come directly from MJ is enough for me to believe.

That theory too, son, has been floated and rejected due to developments over time.

A lot of things can be accepted or rejected as per the bureaucracy of the hoax community, nothing can be said for sure. In fact, beyond circumstrantial evidence and conjecture, the only "pure" hoax info we have comes from MJ himself.

The record of the past 3 years disproves this fairly solidly. There's a reason there are popular theories that are still standing and also a reason why others are rejected over time.

It depends on how much "faith" you have in the purveyor of some of the facts in the records we've received. Not saying a anyone is being intentionally deceptive, but they are more or less just as in the dark as we are.

who knows anything is possible.

so in your theory does he need something in particular to be able to come out?  :icon_e_wink:

I don't know, theoretically he'd leave "more" information to his family yet they seem to be drawn to the research done by us believers. Even on seemingly non-hoax related points dealing with the will etc.

Meaning, what if no one (not even his family) is really aware of Michael Jackson's fate? I would say it would explain the ambiguity behind the Jacksons behavior (perhaps better than MJ directly orquestrating everything). Why the family is fairly lenient with us hoaxers, why Paris can apparently make light of her father's "death". Why so many people say they've never seen the body, and why the family seems to be going in different directions. Maybe they've received instructions on what to do in case Michael "disappeared" (as far as you or anyone else is concerned I'm dead). I still believe there was a "body" but they were instructed not to look at it. Though some of those close to him broke that rule, yet they just went with the flow. Many of MJ's associates might just assume that he had a "few more surgeries" prior to his projected concerts, but those closest to him knew the body wasn't real. Some members are holding out hope that he's alive while others have "accepted the reality" that he's gone. Regardless the family seems to agree with the public image of a "dead MJ". With the mysterious body and the conrad murray case too out of control to say otherwise. Though behind closed doors the matter may be different entirely.

Or is this too convoluted?

Gotta love this one:

@ParisJackson: @chefkaichase i woke up around 2 , don't think im dead lol im just chillin upstairs ((:

Yeah. Would be pretty macabre if her dad was really dead.  :fresse:

Seriously, that would beat out Joe laughing on the day of his death in sheer morbidness.

:suspect: :icon_e_confused:

Son:

A small fringe of the hoax death community thinks MJ faked his death so he could molest more children 

Really son I've got shocked when I read what you wrote, are you sure of it? That would be really sick to think that way, how could the hoax death community think it, that would mean Michael is a monster and there is nothing farther than that.

I doubt that fringe were fans in the first place, but they do exist (albeit not as organized and thorough as us who do respect MJ).

 :th_bravo: :th_bravo: :th_bravo: :th_bravo: :th_bravo: :th_bravo:
:abouttime:

Awesome post! I couldn't have said it any better myself. Unfortunately a triumphant return isn't going to improve his image (if anything his life may be in more danger). A small fringe of the hoax death community thinks MJ faked his death so he could molest more children  :WTF:

That fridge would probably gain more mainstream support if he did return.