Official back & Front thread

[BeTheChange]

In all fairness to Donte, he has a different perspective than the 'traditional' Christian view, or any 'traditional' religious view.  He is very expressive of his beliefs on his blog/tumblr...and I, personally, find his views/perspectives/beliefs to be refreshing and quite in-line with my own on various topics.  For every Bible passage that could be found to show Donte being 'mistaken' or 'wrong' about his views on Jesus...there are other Bible passages to support his line of thinking.  The Bible in this case, and in all cases, being interpretive...much like each of our perspectives are relative to our 'knowledge' and experiences in this lifetime.

This question/answer exchange was posted on his tumblr awhile back...I had copied/pasted it in the Donte thread shortly after I saw it on his tumblr but unfortunately the link I provided in the post is just for the main page (i.e. you'd have to search the tumblr to find the posting...but it is there somewhere lol).  I LOVED his response to the question and am posting it here since he's been mentioned in this thread...and to shed some more light on his perspective (although if you follow his tumblr, rather than just a post or two, you gain a much better understanding of his perspective):

Anonymous asked: I really like you Donte, but you need Jesus. I will pray for you even if you don't want anybody to. I hope you invite him (The lord Jesus) into your life. He loves you, regardless of what you do.

hahahahahaha. praise da lord!!!!!(preachers voice). what will jesus do for me that i cannot do for myself? don't get me wrong i love jesus and everything he stood for, but jesus is not God, God is God and jesus is like our brother because he is the son of God and we are God's children. in my opinion jesus was no different from you or me. isn't it strange to you that you think jesus is Lord, and there are those who think the Buddha is Lord, and others who think Krishna is lord. Buddha, Jesus, and Krishna were all prophets, just like you and me   i can tell by your message that u use jesus as a means to look down on people and tell them what they need. i'll be fine anonymous but i appreciate your effort.      when we both die and BOTH go to heaven, we will laugh and remember the time on Earth when u thought you were better than me because of a different belief system. thank you for making my day  bless you child!(preachers voice)

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,19227.msg382637.html#msg382637

@mindseye...thanks for posting Donte's links to the cube  :icon_razz:

With L.O.V.E. always.

[son]

In all fairness to Donte, he has a different perspective than the 'traditional' Christian view, or any 'traditional' religious view.  He is very expressive of his beliefs on his blog/tumblr...and I, personally, find his views/perspectives/beliefs to be refreshing and quite in-line with my own on various topics.  For every Bible passage that could be found to show Donte being 'mistaken' or 'wrong' about his views on Jesus...there are other Bible passages to support his line of thinking.   The Bible in this case, and in all cases, being interpretive...much like each of our perspectives are relative to our 'knowledge' and experiences in this lifetime.

Based on Jesus' own statements Donte IS wrong. Know he is entitled to his own opinion, and whether Jesus' own claims were accurate is a matter of faith. Yet what Jesus said is what he said, that he was certain that his path was the correct path (unlike Buddha).

"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts."

You could argue whether Jesus intended to create a new religion or simply continue Judaism. Scholars seem to be on both sides to that argument but believers generally conflate the two (which is possibly the truth).

[BeTheChange]

@son...I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Donte being 'wrong'...cause in order for me, or anyone, to make that claim about Donte (or anyone for that matter) we'd have to be 100% sure that we are, instead, right.  And the only thing I know I'm 100% 'right' about, is that I'm not 100% sure of much and don't know everything.

Just out of curiosity though...I'd be interested in what you believe Donte to be 'wrong' about, based on his own words...or better yet, your interpretation of his words.  Also, I find it highly ironic that you base your opinion of Donte being 'wrong', based on 'Jesus' own statements'...and then follow that with a quote advising not to believe everything you read, including religious texts.

Perhaps this should be continued in the Donte thread?

With L.O.V.E. always.

[son]

@son...I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Donte being 'wrong'...cause in order for me, or anyone, to make that claim about Donte (or anyone for that matter) we'd have to be 100% sure that we are, instead, right.  And the only thing I know I'm 100% 'right' about, is that I'm not 100% sure of much and don't know everything.

Just out of curiosity though...I'd be interested in what you believe Donte to be 'wrong' about, based on his own words...or better yet, your interpretation of his words.  Also, I find it highly ironic that you base your opinion of Donte being 'wrong', based on 'Jesus' own statements'...and then follow that with a quote advising not to believe everything you read, including religious texts.

Perhaps this should be continued in the Donte thread?

With L.O.V.E. always.

Donte "could be" right if were concerned with the accuracy of Jesus' statements but not the content statements themselves.  He also "could be" right if you want to take the perspective that Jesus' words were interpolated by the scripture writers (which complicates things and creates unnecessary division). However, what we know about Jesus comes from the scriptures in which Jesus teaches that his position is exclusively the correct one.  I'd much rather continue this in my religion/theology/spirituality group.

[son]

Also, I find it highly ironic that you base your opinion of Donte being 'wrong', based on 'Jesus' own statements'...and then follow that with a quote advising not to believe everything you read, including religious texts.

Perhaps this should be continued in the Donte thread?

With L.O.V.E. always.

That was a Buddha quote, use to distinguish the two (presuming everyone read the scriptures that were posted).

[bec]

It doesn't matter who's wrong or right.

Haha.

Sorry, had to.

[BeTheChange]

@bec...lol, you are right  :icon_lol:

@son...thanks for your comments/perspective.  Again, although I may disagree on certain points/interpretation...I respect your right to have yours.  I'd be interested in taking a look at your 'group'...where is it? On hoaxbook?

I know we've drifted off-topic here...so in the words of Wish, Front why don't you snippet us and get us back on track lol

With L.O.V.E. always.

[voiceforthesilent]

I loved reading this last page as well as quotes from Donte. I may not totally believe the same as he does but I do think he's finding his way in this world and God (or higher power or whatever you believe) will reveal to his heart the truth if he continues to seek it out.

I absolutely loved reading what Michael wrote. Thank you so much MJonmind and Everlastinglove_MJ for sharing those excerpts. Totally loved it. MJ's thoughts and heart are so profound and deep. He is not the average man (or entertainer) for sure.

Blessings to you.

[Dontwalkaway]

I think Donte means, "let's not let religion divide us".  Listen to what some of these prophets were "saying".  Spirituality and religion are different.  Religions are man made.   Think about the difference between the laws of men and the laws of God/nature.

[BeTheChange]

I think Donte means, "let's not let religion divide us".  Listen to what some of these prophets were "saying".  Spirituality and religion are different.  Religions are man made.   Think about the difference between the laws of men and the laws of God/nature.

I completely agree based on what I have observed of Donte's beliefs through his blog.  If he is 'true' to his blog...it's all good, no matter his beliefs.  And the "let's not let religion divide us" sentiment sounds very similar to what Front spoke about in the past, followed by a comment about 'dogma' and his thoughts on that.

I think we're all in for a rude awakening.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[angel]

@MJonmind, that is my favorite of all Michael's quotations.  "All of creation is sound..."  The fascinating thing about sound waves is that they are forever out there.  When you consider that all creation was spoken into existence it seems to be quite a powerful thing.  Imo the technology of the present will seem primitive compared to the higher ways and thoughts of our Creator.   It all seems to be connected somehow...the sound, the time, the past, present and future. 

[bugsy]

I'm not religious, I follow no religion. I follow God, I follow Good, peace, love and life. God is around us, He is in each of us, the birth of a new child, animal and plant. I hope no one takes offense to that but I think far too many wars, disagreements and arguements come about in people disagreeing on the scriptures. I do not disagree with any religion I just do not follow any I just follow what god wants of us, to be kind, loving, forgiving and live humble,and denie evil in any form I think that is the underline in all religions...I live my life in a way that will do him proud as a father to his child would, I live with free will to believe in him and live by all that he wishes of us because it is was his dreams/his hopes/his intentions for us when he created us, I do not fear judgement day and being casted into hell because hell can not exist if you live how he intended and give love and kindness..ultimately good into the world, I follow because my heart was created by god and in this heart he imagined great good and kindness, love and forgiveness..  I can see what Donte is saying and his belief system.

[wishingstar]

I think Donte means, "let's not let religion divide us".  Listen to what some of these prophets were "saying".  Spirituality and religion are different.  Religions are man made.   Think about the difference between the laws of men and the laws of God/nature.

I completely agree based on what I have observed of Donte's beliefs through his blog.  If he is 'true' to his blog...it's all good, no matter his beliefs.  And the "let's not let religion divide us" sentiment sounds very similar to what Front spoke about in the past, followed by a comment about 'dogma' and his thoughts on that.

I think we're all in for a rude awakening.

With L.O.V.E. always.

Given what's going on in the world, man's religions play an infinite role in the destruction of God's world.  It's a sad thing to think, but true.  Jesus came to Earth as the Son of Man....a mortal.  Perhaps, Donte was eluding to God's command of no idolatry.  If Jesus was a man, a human, we are not to idolize him still.  Yet, we are to keep our eyes on God no matter what.  Yes, rude awakening for sure....scary.
@angel....you mentioned sound (per MJonmind's post).  It's something I have been very interested in for a long time now.  In Michael's writings, he mentions, "....music of the spheres".  That phrase is associated with Pythagoras.....the Greek philosopher.  I can't even begin to describe how amazing he was as a teacher of mathematical theories and number studies.  He formed a society around it a called the, Order of the Pythagoreans.

Here is a site that goes into more detail about his ideas of numbers and musical sounds:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit3/unit3.html#Music%20of%20the%20Spheres

One other area that I have brought up earlier is the use of a spectrogram.   With the ideas of Pythagoras, and modern technology,
a spectrogram seems intriguing to me.  It's a sound measuring device.  There are many different types, for different sounds.  I have
often wondered what Michael's music "looks" like.  Not just in connection to the hoax (like Year Zero)...but in all aspects.  The musical
calculations within the notes themselves, might yield a bounty of inspiring information.  Michael loves numbers....this much we know.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if he managed to work number values into his music...to the point of specific meaning.  A spectrogram
would be an interesting device to use in connection to Michael's music....and even Front's snippets  :icon_e_wink:
I don't suppose anyone knows how to use one or has one....I see them (spectrograms) online....however, it's so confusing to me.
Front.....you wouldn't happen to have a spectrogram in your bag of tricks, would ya?  I think your snippets would be lovely to, "see".
Blessings Always

[MaryK]

I read this yesterday and I thought that was interesting. What a wise man he is:

The Dalai Lama. Sept. 10, 2012:

‎"All the world's major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

@Wishingstar: interesting post! Thank you for that.

[MJonmind]

Leilani81, good post!  There's something about religion that just reduces everything to whether you are on the saved side or damned, and trying to convince/coerce the 'damned' to be on your perception of the saved side.  But meanwhile in the whole of creation, there is the exquisite beauty of each atom, molecule, life, sunset, human essence,  energy that constantly needs to be explored and revelled in—and that could be missed while pursuing proselytizing.

Angel, about MJ's wise words, it's his heart and mind that has touched me deep inside like I've never experienced before, and so I must stay the course.

Mary, my son was reminding me the other day that Confusius had a profound moral impact on the far east with teachings such as:
"Do unto others what you want done unto you." which is the same as Jesus' words, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  Yet Confucius lived around 551 BC - 479 BC.