'I believe what people failed to realise...'

[~Souza~]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with.  If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.

Then you both REALLY didn't get the point.

[ABeautifulMind]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with.  If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.

I Just see a few people not getting the point and twisting things around. In my opinion. If you have a problem then stay out of the thread, because it was started by the Mod in the first place who brought it up. I don't understand people sometimes *Sigh*

[Scream]

I don't know if I agree with your statement, I'm very creative and so is my cousin. I've seen others with autism and aspergers that are creative at well. No matter what, some of our symptoms differ on the whole spectrum there. In fact alot of people with this have high IQ's.

From WebMD - "Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. But scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson."

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Intellectually gifted people with Aspergers find these activities a lot easier than Aspies who would be considered to be in the normal range (or less) on the IQ spectrum, I'd say I'm in the normal range for IQ's so I struggle with those aspects.

Anyway, thanks for links, I'll check them out (:

[curls]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with.  If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.

I Just see a few people not getting the point and twisting things around. In my opinion. If you have a problem then stay out of the thread, because it was started by the Mod in the first place who brought it up. I don't understand people sometimes *Sigh*

If I've missed the point wouldn't it be more helpful to try and help me understand, than to tell me to keep out of the thread? I also don't understand people sometimes.

[suspicious mind]

yes michael is only human. he said so himself.just like the rest of us.with human emotions , faults, worries , pains and fears. with personality traits that are his and his alone as well as those that are just like everyone else's. personality traits. now there is a term you don't hear much about anymore. now we tend to call them symtoms instead.

[Stranger In Chi-town]

Very good post, Souza. I agree, that Michael is only human and makes mistakes like all of us.  8-)   Also, about Aspergers Syndrome, it's a possibility I thought of when I ran across the topic online, some months ago.

[Sangre]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with.  If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.

Then you both REALLY didn't get the point.

I think you're misread what I was saying. That would explain why you get so defensive.

[~Souza~]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with.  If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.

Then you both REALLY didn't get the point.

I think you're misread what I was saying. That would explain why you get so defensive.

I am very capable of understanding your post. With MY post I meant that I don't want this to become a fan forum and I want some respect for Mike. Certain threads absolutely miss that. This is an investigation site and we are here to find out what made him do this. Trying to understand him is part of that, and therefore subjects like AS should be discussable. No one is saying he most definately has AS, we are only discussing the possibility. That is not disrespectful at all. If you say that you are saying that people with AS are disfunctional or stupid, which they are most definitely not. Actually they are often highly intelligent. If you think it's more respectful to talk about how hot he is and stuff that I won't mention here, that is fine by me, yet not on this forum. I understood your post very well, but you didn't understand mine at all.

[MissG]

I already gave my point of view in another thread some weeks ago speculating about Michael´s "mental diagnoses".

The topic "Michael is human" has again turned in to "Michael is mentally ill", in resume.

We do not know about Michael´s mental diagnosis and those who have the skills and experience in diagnosing clients beyond coaching or psychotherapy don´t seem to see hints of Michael´s "possible A.S" in what has been shown to us in his home videos.

We do not know who Michael really is behind the spot lights, so, once again, in my honest opinion, to firmly open the possibility of MJ suffering some form of autism without knowing nothing about him face to face, his fears or real approach to life is just speculation.

On another note, the non tretated autistic brain perceives reality in a higly distorted form. A simple noise can take the sound of an explosion i.e. Communication and expression in every sense it´s a very hard task.

I do not see any hints of that disorder within Michael´s behaviour as far as has been shown to us.


Souza, this is an investigation forum, true, but one cannot dismiss that Michael Jackson was an icon.
Threads are open regarding issues that nobody cares because they don´t seem to be related to Michael and we don´t read them, other people want to share wih readers of this specific forum their passion for MJ, even if it sounds rude to say "I love those Gold pants" or wathever.

I am of the opinion that every single member have something to bring to the investigation, even if the talk is just about Michael´s "sexy smile" because we don´t know if by focusing in the "sexy smile" we can find out a faker, a double or an impersonator as an example.
We have been dissecting Michael to eternity; ears, legs, nose, smile.....all of that by watching videos
On the other hand, I also agree that rude vocabulary could be hold back a bit since I am not interested in knowing people´s sexual fantasies with Michael


To try to make the forum exclusively about investigating Michael´s death is not going to be possible.
Most of the people interested in Michael are fans who liked his looks as well as his music, who liked the artist and carry that fan side with them in all the forums they join.

Let me ask you, Souza. How are you going to solve this dilema?

[~Souza~]

I don't have to solve anything. As I have stated, I don't want threads like "Oh he's so hot" and stuff like that. I am aware of the fact that there are fans here, but like I stated, we have a general talk and "Videos/Pictures of Michael" and "Messages to Michael". That doesn't mean that those forums are there to share sexual fantasies and I dislike the threads that are focussing on his body features. If you respect him as an artist, then talk about his work, his dance moves, his albums, his tours or whatever. In some threads he si totaslly seen as an object of insane lust if I can phrase it like that, and I don't want that, period. There are millions of forums (fan forums) where people can share all their fantasies and fanfiction, but not here. Clear and simple. I am not talking about the normal fan threads that discuss tours and stuff like that, I am talking about the ridiculous ones. There are way too many of them lately and that is not what we stand for.

We have stated many times we wanted this to be an investigation site and not a fan forum (see home page) and I understand if people want some light threads sometimes. That is fine by me, most certainly because other people might find something in it that is helpful for the investigation. But people need to stop the "OMG he's so hot" threads, it's annoying and I think he knows this by now...

As for Asperger's and 'mentally ill'. I think that's kinda harsh. As you can see there are people on here with Asperger's, and mentally ill does not sound very nice. I really advise you to read up on AS before making statements like this. This thread is not meant to be about the possibility that Mike is an Aspie, I gave that as an example because people were ridiculing the theory and BECAUSE we don't know if he has AS or not, and because there are others here on the forum with AS, I didn't liked the comments on it.

I never said I am sure he is an Aspie, I said it was a possibility and I said I think we should be able to discuss that without being trashed by people who just say 'he is not a retard'. Comments like that are disrespectful and not helpful and will be removed. It's very possible you have reasons to disagree on a theory, that is why they are THEORIES, but in that case people need to come up with more than that.

[MissG]

I really advise you to read up on AS before making statements like this

Oh, Advice...sounds pretty rude to me the way you are giving me a tip this time, Souza.

I have read about it and not only about A.S and pls, don´t get defensive for the words "mentally ill" , it wasn´t meant to be harsh.

[mumof3]

I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem

This does sound like MJ. Especially walking into dangerous situations without seeing the problem, like with the children sleeping over, he knew he wasn't doing anything sexual, so he didn't see the problem. But the world didn't think the same, of course.  :roll:

I know that is what i mean he did it with all good intentions we know that but as we all grow up up in this hard world we know that we can not do that without some person accusing you of all sorts and you would not be able to protect yourself without a witness standing there and i have to say when I watched the basit programme and Michael  said that about sleeping with children in his innocent way i though om my god they are going to crucify you for that  and they did he did not see the danger he was walking into.
Of course I cant say that he has aspergers but it could explain why he did not see danger at that time.

I have to say i agree souza with you this site is here to find the truth if that is what we are supposed to do we know Michael is handsome that goes without saying but you can go to the fan clubs to talk about that  here is for the truth I feel

[mumof3]

At the end of the day we know he is handsome we know he he makes great music well the list is endless the most important thing is

we dont know what happened to him  I think that is why we are all here

best wishes

[suspicious mind]

i think in the situation with bashir michael was trying to stick up for what he thought was doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. i think during the course of what happened he did realize that he was screwed (that's why he added the part about " i slept on the floor") .but we all know by then it was too late. i think he just couldn't fathom that this kind of thing could possibly happen to him a second time.  jmo

you have to remember this guy spent a lifetime nearly in circumstances that we can't even begin to imagine.

[iluvmj4eva]

 I JOINED THIS WEBSITE INDEED BECAUSE I STILL BELIEVE THAT MICHAEL JACKSON IS STILL ALIVE, NO QUESTION AT ALL!  I WILL ADMIT THAT SOME THREADS MAKES MIKE LOOK LIKE A SEXY SYMBOL.  THIS SITE IS FOR INVESTIGATING AND GETTING EVIDENCE.  NOW, MIKE KNOWS THAT HIS FANS LOVE HIS MUSIC, HIS HUMANITARIAN AND ETC.  HE ALSO KNOWS THAT HE IS INDEED SEXY AND TRULY HANDSOME AS CAN BE.  HE KNOWS THAT, HE'S A HUMAN BEING AND A MAN.   I DO WANT TO CONTINUE TO GO WITH EVIDENCE AND INVESTIGATIONS OF MICHAEL STILL BEING ALIVE.  I UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FEEL SOUZA AND I AGREE WITH YOU. I'VE BEEN A FAN SINCE THE JACKSON FIVE CARTOONS AND THAT''S A LONG TIME AGO, LOL!  THE WEBSITE SHOULD JUST STAY WITH ITS NAME.  PEACE!!!