TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)

[Sarahli]

I know it's not investigative but I wanted to post this here. TS (or Front geek/) is the dove in this picture, our dear messenger, bringing light through the veils.

All the pieces of the puzzle will come together in the end family. Peace to all of you.

[GINAFELICIA]

It's the 7th of December, maybe TS will show up bounce/ bounce/ bounce/
maybe tomorrow morning I find a post from TS here bounce/ bounce/ bounce/
Or from Michael :shock: How cool would that be bounce/

[Heartsong]

@bec and AussieMJ, I feel your frustration. TS can be ambiguous as hell and is certainly an enigma but I fear we may be turning this into a "figure out TS" rather than "figure out what happened to Michael". TS can place stumbling blocks but he has also given us abundant guidance.

I don't think that the reasons for WHY or HOW Michael appears to be MIA will help us figure out WHAT happened. For instance, claims of a fan sting simply confuses us and does nothing to help us progress (red herring). This is a puzzle piece I would prefer to put to the side for the time being. The same goes for the various disguises (hatman, DD) and fuzzy videos, even though I realise this would indeed be an extremely convenient shortcut! It would at least prove MJ is alive.

Sticking to principles of critical thinking we cannot use the evidence to support the premise (premises being MJ planned the hoax years ago, MJ died of accidental propofol, MJ was murdered, MJ escaped murder attempt but had to stage his death) . We must allow the evidence to lead us to the premise (conclusion) and we must consider ALL the evidence not just what supports our own particular theory. As an analogy, a crime scene investigator cannot go onto a scene with the premise that a murder took place and then gather evidence which supports his stance. He must gather ALL the evidence before reaching a conclusion and he must be prepared to vary his opinion according to the evidence.

In this regard we have a tough task, as much of the evidence we are using has been proven to be questionable or deliberately placed to mislead, but not all of it, not all of it by a long shot.

So, lets go back, right to the beginning, right to the O2 announcements and bring forward what we know, what we have debunked and what has been neither confirmed nor unconfirmed (grey areas). No conjecture or interpretation, just what we saw and heard. We need to create a timeline and include all the characters in place at each particular moment. We need to check and cross check the alibis of people, the testimonies of the bodyguards because if Michael escaped at Carolwood someone had to take him. We need to find alibis for Randy, Kenny, Arnold, Miko, Lou F, Frank D, Jermaine and any staff not previously spotlighted. It may be more important to know who WASN'T there than who was. We know so much now and I think by using a little hindsight and fresh eyes the answers we are searching for are right in front of us.

So to start the timeline:

March 5th '09: Michael went to London to announce his 10  "This Is It" concerts at the O2 Arena for July. He was 90 minutes late. Conjecture we need to add later- was it really Michael, why was he late, why did he go all the way to London to make the announcement (an announcement that took all of 2 minutes), why did he not complete his sentence "this is really it, because, uhmmmmm..."?

March 8-11th '09: This Is It tickets go on presale. 350,000 are snapped up. 10 concerts sold out.

March 12th '09: Concert dates are increased to 50.

March 13th '09: Further tickets go on sale.

There is so much more we can add later, but we need to have an outline before we can add the details and there will be pages of details. What stands out for me, even here, is the short timespan between the presale and the increase in dates (hopefully my dates are correct). Was Michael even consulted?

If we continue this way much will stand out and I think it is the only methodical method we can use to reach any kind of determination. It will also serve to have all the solid information in one place where we can help each other rather than having it scattered around like chicken feed to be easily overlooked.

Much L.O.V.E as always

[paula-c]

Anyone remember this old post:

It was a really sunny day in LA and we were riding to Malibu Beach when our friend called and told us Michael Jackson died 5 minutes ago! We happened to be right next to UCLA medical center where he was taken right after his cardiac arrest. We snuck into the UCLA Medical Center building. We went in the back door, up the elevator, back down, and out the front door, where the UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards were creating a decoy scene of his body being taken away to distract the media. We walked through the chaos and saw two choppers leave and realized that they may have taken him out the back door. We were totally shocked and saddened to loose not one but two legends of our generation in the same day! We left and went to Malibu, listening to Michael Jackson songs on every radio station the whole way, celebrating Michael and Farrah’s lives and appreciating ours!

MJHDI.com

[GINAFELICIA]

@heartsong I agree with the methodical approach but the problem is we don't have access to all information, we have to work with what we have and it is not enough. At least it doesn't seem to be enough.

Paula - that proves there was a decoy scene to distract the media, but I don't really understand how it was: they wanted to make it appear that the body was taken away by the front door at UCLA, while in fact it was in the chopper?

I don't know who wrote what you quoted but they had a good spirit of observation if they noticed there was a decoy going on in order to distract the media and also they notice who arranged the decoy - UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards. This means some of those people saw the body? And what was used for the decoy, pillows under a sheet?

[ForstAMoon]

As far as the body is concerned that is my way of seeing it.

We (the public) saw only what we were supposed to see, what we were given to see.

Scene 1 - ambulance at home
Scene 2 - ambulance at UCLA
Scene 3 - Jermaine saying MJ was dead
Scene 4 - body transferred by helicopter
Scene 5 - funeral

There are not many films or even photos available from these scenes, what in light of MJ scale and media firepower and in the era of mobile phones is pretty puzzling.

For example: the film with the helicopter view of body being transferred (the "moving" body) - how come this film happened? Who gave a tip to the filming crew? Since all was kept secret and there is no one from UCLA or any other public service engaged ever speaking about this day - how did they know, when and how the body was to be transferred? Who told them? Was the filming helicopter hanging around just in case?

[GINAFELICIA]

For example: the film with the helicopter view of body being transferred (the "moving" body) - how come this film happened? Who gave a tip to the filming crew? Since all was kept secret and there is no one from UCLA or any other public service engaged ever speaking about this day - how did they know, when and how the body was to be transferred? Who told them? Was the filming helicopter hanging around just in case?

This is a good question but we don't know the answer. What channels aired it live?

[paula-c]

@heartsong I agree with the methodical approach but the problem is we don't have access to all information, we have to work with what we have and it is not enough. At least it doesn't seem to be enough.

Paula - that proves there was a decoy scene to distract the media, but I don't really understand how it was: they wanted to make it appear that the body was taken away by the front door at UCLA, while in fact it was in the chopper?

I don't know who wrote what you quoted but they had a good spirit of observation if they noticed there was a decoy going on in order to distract the media and also they notice who arranged the decoy - UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards. This means some of those people saw the body? And what was used for the decoy, pillows under a sheet?

In 2009 it was said to be woman known in the USA, i do not know if model or an actress, say that Playboy model ... his name is Heather Chadwell and pop artist Sham Ibrahim and were in the UCLA this June 25.

I do believe that something" to get to the UCLA this June 25, and those who do know of this were those that had been in contact with the "body" one or two paramedics, the doctor at the hospital and the medical examiner

[VeryLittleSusie]

(...)
So, lets go back, right to the beginning, right to the O2 announcements and bring forward what we know, what we have debunked and what has been neither confirmed nor unconfirmed (grey areas). No conjecture or interpretation, just what we saw and heard. We need to create a timeline and include all the characters in place at each particular moment.  (...)

Maybe this would help:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[GINAFELICIA]

I do believe that something" to get to the UCLA this June 25, and those who do know of this were those that had been in contact with the "body" one or two paramedics, the doctor at the hospital and the medical examiner

I agree. The difficult part is to define that "something".

[Heartsong]

Thank you so much VeryLittleSusie. I haven't had time to have a detailed look yet but seems someone else has the same idea! I can't seem to see if there is a timeline for the period leading up to June 25th? I will search the site you gave us a bit closer.

paula-c this is the type of information that we can slot in to the suitable places in the timeline. There will be much info at each point with much of it contradicting other info we already have, unfortunately. I'm not saying this info contradicts, it may just add to what we already know. But to confirm this particular info we do have CC / media footage taken at the front door (I think). I don't recall attention ever being brought to the front door of UCLA. Still, it fits with the often heard statements of Michael's pap evasion techniques, namely "we'll pretend to go this way but we'll really go that way..."  The main point is that we need to consider ALL the information.

gina, I hear your frustration. Believe me I am too. But please, look at what we DO have not at what we don't. I think we have much, much more than we realise and I think the answers we seek are right in front of us. Think wheat and chaff not needle and haystack...

[bec]

It's an illusion, a very successful illusion. We can guess all day but the reality of the matter is, by simple virtue, we will not be able to determine what really happened without hearing from the Illusionist himself. I suggest we all take back's advice.

[GINAFELICIA]

If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??

[Heartsong]

If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??

I think bec is saying it will be difficult due to the illusion factor, not that we can't figure it out. We already know that if clues make us look left we should really look right. That is why the evidence needs to be matched up, as every single piece seems to vary in one way or another .

That is your blog Susie?! I knew we had stuff here we were overlooking. Such great work!

So... what's with the report on August 27 2009 about the search warrant reults- we now know that is outright rubbish...

And this...August 30, 2009 – News of the World report: "Jackson RESET THE MACHINE CONTROLLING THE DRIP, increasing the dosage which led to the heart attack that killed him." The defense claimed at trial there was no infusion pump even though prosecution eventually proved there must have been. So, does this mean someone let on to the media way back in 2009?

See, we can match previous stuff up to what we now know and therein lays da troot!

L.O.V.E. and keep the faith

...

[bec]

If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??

I don't know. I don't know why he did any of the levels. There must be some purpose I am not understanding right now.