Official General Prelim Discussion thread

[loyalfan]

[attachment=0:1f6x0f94]images (.jpg[/attachment:1f6x0f94]



I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM CRYING,BUT I WILL NOT GIVE UP ON YOU MICHAEL.....XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[Sinderella]

Personally I think everyone should go put the kettle on,make some tea and watch Dave Dave on Larry King again for the millionth time and remember how convinced you were 18months ago.
I am pretty sure he knows exactly what he is doing.

D,suck it up and dry the tears <3

[GINAFELICIA]

I'm going to try this comment one more time lol.  Surely the most glaringly obvious error in this whole thing is that the original 911 call was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel!!! why oh why wasn't this even mentioned in the prelim.  I'm no detective but if this was "real" it has to be the most damning piece of evidence yet no one seems to be questioning why.

good point

[GINAFELICIA]

...he doesn't want to just shock the non believers when he gets back but everybody which means everyone who thinks he is still alive.

I thought he wanted the non believers to come around...... now I think he wants to turn the believers into non believers so he can shock us too..... oh, we can speculate years from now on......

Sinderella I will take your advice and watch Dave Dave again......

[Sinderella]

Sinderella I will take your advice and watch Dave Dave again......

Gina,I really hope you're ok,please don't be scared.
There is time before anything else significant goes down so that is just my suggestion,go back to the start and look at everything that brought you to be here,and try to feel more positive <3

[peggy99]

I'm going to try this comment one more time lol.  Surely the most glaringly obvious error in this whole thing is that the original 911 call was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel!!! why oh why wasn't this even mentioned in the prelim.  I'm no detective but if this was "real" it has to be the most damning piece of evidence yet no one seems to be questioning why.

good point

Alberto Alvarez is said to have made the 911 call, indeed, he testified in Court to that very fact.  Surely if he made the call from the Beverly Hills Hotel, he would have had no idea what was going on in MJ's room at Carolwood.  This is so frustrating as this should have been immediately jumped upon but it just seems to have been ignored.  Here in the UK, this would be one of the first things that would have been questioned.  Does anyone have any idea why this extroadinary fact is being ignored by not only the Court but the media and to some extent the members on this forum.

[michaelsupporter]

Indeed!She keeps txting me questions.Converting everyone=massive phone bills haha.
I will get you the casket info.Can't recall where it is atm.

In my opinion,there is not enough evidence.From what I heard,saw,read and based on my own opinion which I am entitled to.My opinion is that it's BS.
EVERY story on that stand lacked credibility,everyone on there made no sense,had a different version of events,hadn't done their job in some way or another.
The paramedic didn't even know who he was trying to save until he overheard his name in a phone conversation..really..

@ Sinderella. I think the mere fact that Murray was administering propofol outside of a hospital setting AND without proper monitoring equipment is more then enough evidence then and there to proceed to a full trial..Not to forget too that he was supposedly on the phone to various people during the time he should have been taking care of Michael. He also neglected to tell paramedics that he had given Michael the propofol.

And who did he administer it to exactly?because from what you have written there you sound like you believe he gave it to Michael,and the majority of people on this forum don't believe that to be the case,so if you think Murray neglected Michael,and gave him propofol and so on,then you believe Michael is dead,because that is what those facts lead to.
So why are you here?No disrespect,but I don't see why anyone who believes Murray neglected Michael and caused his death is here.

I am still here because I am hoping to be proved wrong. I am about 99% sure that Mike is gone but even though I still have that 1% hope left it is still hope after all and so I will continue on coming here...There might be something that comes up that we have missed that points to an obvious hoax who knows. I simply cannot understand why IF Michael hoaxed his death that he would choose to go out in such a horrible and controversial way?

Why not a simple heart attack in his sleep?? That would have made sense too given the amount of stress he had been under these past few years. But now we have a big court case and a doctor involved. Surely there are other ways to die that would have caused less fuss? This has always been the one thing that I could never reconcile in my mind. I did think that Michael was helping the authorities bring down shady over prescribing doctors but now I am not even sure of that.

What I said the other day to you I meant..I am truly appreciative of all the hard work you have put in over this past week..Your updates have been very helpful and I am truly grateful.

IF this is a hoax then it is the most realistic hoax that I have ever heard of. I will admit that some things are just crazy..It's crazy that a doctor of medicine could be just so darn right stupid for one...Words fail me..But who knows anymore?

I just keep going back to the day when my English professor told me that when you can convey a story in a fashion that will blur the lines between fiction and reality for your reader you have become a successful writer. I can say that the hoax author is really apt in drawing us in and emotionally hooking us until we become invested and drained. In fact, it is so well written that people are having a difficult time pulling themselves out of the story. Emotions are powerful and I can assure you that the author of any moving piece of art-whether in visual or word interpretation-is a mastermind to have accomplished this!  

[Sinderella]

This is the kind of evidence I was talking about.I know Murray was at Carolwood and it's been proven he ordered propofol etc....but there are vital and quite OBVIOUS facts that have been totally ignored.
No one asked why the ambulance reversed with no sirens on...surely that classes as negligent behaviour on the part of the paramedics who had a human life hanging in the balance,so why are they not being partially blamed?Those vital mins that they waited for Murray to 'clean up' the bedroom....also negligent to whoever was inside that ambulance.
No one has mentioned the BH at all.
No one has mentioned why there are no images AT ALL that exist from that day apart from ambulance reversing and trash cans,I mean these are questions that should have been investigated and honestly from what I can see there was no investigation,just someone asking Murrays GF questions about drug deliveries.

90% of what was found in the house was either not collected or remains untested.
For the amount of cleaning done by Murray,there was a shit load left wasn't there?I really can't see Michael leaving vials of drugs around the house when he has 3 children under 15,he loved them beyond life,how would he live with himself if one of them had an accident with any of the stuff lying around?Syringes,drugs,pills...Blanket finding one and thinking it was candy I mean,I'm sorry I just don't see him being that reckless.
I am not ignoring what has come out in the past 6days,I have given part of my theory on the whole thing and how they could be telling the truth.I just think more was not said,than said and the point of a prelim is to get all the facts out in the open.From where I am sitting that never happened.

I look at those things because to me,you can't have a fair,honest,REAL trial without everything being brought out-but then that is the point isn't it...Michael's trial went the same way...barely any evidence and someone driving it behind the scene's.

[peggy99]

I, like you Sinders, find it incredibly slap dash.  I find myself getting more and more angry with the whole thing.  From my personal point of view, I am positive Michael is alive but that aside, this whole investigation, prelim etc. is nothing more than a joke.  They only seem interested in Murray and the meds which makes me think this all about catching the docs who provide drugs at the drop of a hat.  I have mentioned before I have worked in the legal profession here in the UK for over 25 years now and here, at least, we would start investigating at the very beginning (the 911 call, everything in the bedroom etc) but over there in LA there are obviously different rules.

[Sinderella]

Which is EXACTLY why it was not done-for whatever reasons are yet to emerge-in the UK.
This would have been investigated in a way that the LAPD just haven't done.Nothing would have been left in that room,nothing would have been not fingerprinted,I mean for god's sake,that is a vital part of forensics and yet....it was ignored.
Trying to pull any of this off after June wouldn't have worked.
I am 100% convinced because of my job and what I've read and researched so far,the 02 shows were never going to happen....it was merley for the DVD movie we got afterwards.
That is seperate in my head atm though,the fact so much has been left out is what is bugging me most.
There are other members on here,who also work in the legal world and in the medical world and neither of them can fathom how any of this is going on.

ANY Dr no matter what area knows basic CPR,anyone who has done first aid in highschool or for work knows basic CPR.Why hasn't more been said on his lack of skills and more been looked into regarding his dodgy addresses and so on.They seemed more interested in getting his multiple girlfriends on the stand to discuss how they met,how many nights a week he was at each...it isn't a sex scandal case,it's manslaughter.
I know he called each of them,but still,they were questioned more on their private lives than Kenny was on Michael's health...which is what I thought this was supposed to be about....

[peggy99]

Exactly Sinders.  I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol.  Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.

[Sinderella]

Exactly Sinders.  I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol.  Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.

Well I am only stating facts which is all I ever try to do and they are to the best of my knowledge or that I know to be true just because I do.
I don't see something that can be linked to something else and those to other things...y'know what I mean...there is no solid beliveable chain of events.
Everything in life is due to a chain of events-I woke up>showered>got ready>went to a meeting...you know my day flows ,this whole mess does not flow.

Hollywood isn't even ready for this...It is about to get a very hard slap in the face.
This trial, if nothing else will blow open the underground world of Dr's ordering drugs that should only be used in a hospital setting,with proper medical care and equipment which goes on DAILY.Mainly in LA.
After this I would hope no Dr of any celebrity or any Dr in general can order those kinds of drugs when they only run a general practice,they have no use for them in there so clearly they are going to people who can afford to pay for them in cash,cars,houses.
Celebrities are being taken advantage of by people who are yes men/women and know exactly how to manipulate the trust those kinds of people have in them..not to tell their secrets.That is what they really pay for,the hush hush of it all.


Hollywood is a Monster.

" Hollywood it's got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It's got you bouncing off the wall
It's got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Don't you, don't you like it?

Monster...he's a monster"

[mjkate]

In TMZ live a couple of day ago, Harvey said he is not sure that the time of death is accurate. He makes it seem like he thinks it is earlier.  :shock: The family members say this too. They don't mean an by an hour. They have reasons to believe this is true. So then where does that leave us?? Harvey is a lawyer so he knows that it's perjury if you say you gave him propofol at 10:50 when that is a lie because he was already dead. There is also the call that Klein says on tmz that his office got that morning from Murray/jackson's house. Harvey has reason to believe that it's earlier so that means, if he has information that the death was much earlier, then much of what we have heard so far is a lie? Harvey stated right on TMZ live that there is more to the story. All I can imagine is that Murray is going to take a plea deal and we will never hear the truth. Also the Beverly Hills Hotel has been "explained" that it was the closest ping tower or something ridic.

[peggy99]

The ping tower excuse is not working with me and I know for a fact that this is incorrect.  My husband works in the mental health field and because his job carries a risk of his patients being violent, his mobile phone is monitored by his office and they are able to pinpoint exactly where he is, down to the address not the tower which is carrying the signal.  If this sytem works where I live which is in the countryside then I'm sure it works the same in a city.

[Datroot]

Its also not normal to let the family into the house to take away (or take in) loads of stuff which could be vital to the investigation - before the police had even been there.