Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => The Conrad Murray Investigation & Court Case => After June 25, 2009 => The Preliminary Hearing January 4-11, 2011 => Topic started by: Sinderella on January 04, 2011, 08:46:04 PM
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A summary from inside the court 4/1/11
COURT – DAY 1
04/01/11
Judge :- Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor
Prosecutor: Assistant Deputy D.A. David Walgren
Defence: Ed Chernoff
Family attending:-
Katherine Jackson
LaToya Jackson
Jackie Jackson
Witnesses called:-
Kenny Ortega (Producer/Director – This Is It)
Michael Amir( Michael’s Bodyguards)
Faheen Muhammed (Michael’s Bodyguard)
Court convened at 9am.
Reports have Murray as usual been ‘shepharded’ in through the back door and arriving in court looking remarkably relaxed – as he continued to be throughout the whole proceedings.
Fans remained outside behaved in a respectful and dignified manner as the family filed in.
Deputy District Attorney, David Walgren said he will rely on Murray's statements to police, as well as text messages, phone records and expert testimony to show the doctor should stand trial.
He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.
He faulted the doctor in opening statements for performing CPR on Jackson with one hand on his bed, rather than a hard surface as is generally required.
He also stated that “ fabulous" rehearsal two days before his death and was set to go to London in a few days.”
Walgren also plans to call several experts whom he said would testify, "there are a number of actions displayed by Dr. Murray that show an extreme deviation from the standard of care."
The prosecutor also said he would call a bodyguard who would testify that Murray ordered him to collect items from Jackson's bedroom
The first witness the prosecution called was "This Is It" producer/director Kenny Ortega
KENNY ORTEGA
Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson’s home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.
Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.
Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.
"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."
Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.
"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."
The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.
"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."
Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.
He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.
"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said.
On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.
MICHAEL AMIR WILLIAMS
Another witness, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams, described Murray calling him on the day the superstar died and frantically asking him to get help from bodyguards for Jackson, who was in a bedroom
Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."
Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.
Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up
Williams added that staff were never allowed upstairs.
Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson’s children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.
He went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some ‘cream’ that “Michael wouldn’t want people to see”. Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to ‘lock it down’. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!
FAHEEN MUHAMMED
One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"
"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said
When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."
Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there,"
Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.
Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.
Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.
"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.
The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.
The session ended at approx 16.30pm. To be reconvened on 5/1/11 at 09.30am
Travis Payne was also present.
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Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.
THIS DOES NOT LOOK GOOD AT ALL!
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this is not good .
If michael really died then I don't know what to say anymore .
This murray is ridiculous . really :cry:
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And if he didn't die and Murray helped him this statement doesn't make sense. It's like Michael is against Murray.
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Thanks for the recap Sinderella!
Something sticks out to me though. Didn't Kai Chase say that someone (Thome I think?) dismissed all of the staff about 1/2 hour after Michael was taken to the hospital? If that is the case, who was Williams calling at the home?
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And if he didn't die and Murray helped him this statement doesn't make sense. It's like Michael is against Murray.
yeah this is ridiculous . why murray upset that kenny sent michael home . This is clear that he want to force michael to do rehearsal eventhough he was sick . :evil:
also , murray still dare to asked william to get him food when michael was dying (if this is true ) :shock: this is unbelieveable .
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Dont know if this is a hoax anymore..... :cry: :cry:
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............
Where are the clues, now, Michael?
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He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.
This doesn't speak well of the bodyguards either. Their job is to protect. Then why would they do what a joke of a doctor tells them. If Mike is really gone, they are all at fault here. You don't delay calling 911.
The kids being outside the bedroom door contradicts what Kai Chase told in her interviews. Who is lying? She also said that the staff didn't see the paramedics take Mike out of the house, because the staff was released. so does that mean they left the kids alone, and that's why they were upstairs? This is really freaking me out.
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And if Michael is not gone, then he starts to incriminate more and more people.
This DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE HOAX.
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He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.
This doesn't speak well of the bodyguards either. Their job is to protect. Then why would they do what a joke of a doctor tells them. If Mike is really gone, they are all at fault here. You don't delay calling 911.
The kids being outside the bedroom door contradicts what Kai Chase told in her interviews. Who is lying? She also said that the staff didn't see the paramedics take Mike out of the house, because the staff was released. so does that mean they left the kids alone, and that's why they were upstairs? This is really freaking me out.
Maybe the kids were upstairs at first, and perhaps they were ushered downstairs where they prayed with Kai Chase and others.
I think as testimonies continue, things will become clearer.
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i don't recall kenny ever mentioning any kind of concerns about michael health except for possibly his weight. where is this coming from now?
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Contradictions of Williams' and Muhammed's testimonies taken from their statements to the police back in 2009.
MICHAEL AMIR WILLIAMS
Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."
Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.
Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up.
March 22, 2010: Alvarez told police he arrived at Jackson's home around 10:20 a.m. He was awaiting instructions for the day in a security trailer outside Jackson's rented mansion when, at 12:17 p.m., his phone rang. It was Williams.
Williams told Alvarez that Murray had just called to say Jackson was in trouble. Alvarez rushed into the mansion and up the stairs to Jackson's room, where he saw Murray standing at the pop star's bedside, performing CPR with one hand, according to the statements.
Alvarez asked the doctor what had happened. "He had a reaction, he had a bad reaction," Murray replied, according to Alvarez's statement.
Murray told Alverez not Williams that Michael "had a bad reaction" unless he told them both this but it is attributed to Alverez.
Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion
Williams wasn't at the mansion so how could he describe that scene?
Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson’s children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.
Murray contradicted Dileo?
So Murray must have said that Michael wasn't dead, that is the only contradiction he could have made.
This also contradicts what Katherine said on Oprah, that Murray told her that Michael was dead, if Murray was going around saying Michael was alive.
I also have a video on my youtube in which Dileo claims he told Katherine not Murray.
Williams went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some ‘cream’ that “Michael wouldn’t want people to see”. Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to ‘lock it down’. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!
At the hospital, after the death had been called, Williams said he saw Murray crying. Murray asked Williams if he or someone else could take him back to the mansion so he could pick up the cream, according to Williams' statement.
Williams said he didn't think it was a good idea for Murray to return to the house. He spoke to Muhammad and they agreed they wouldn't take Murray back. They concocted a story that police had taken all the keys to the vehicles as part of the investigation. Murray said he would take a cab, and Williams said he saw him leave the hospital through a side door.
These events are described somewhat differently between the two reports
AHEEN MUHAMMED
One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'" "I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said
When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."
March 22, 2010: Murray told the men it was his first time performing CPR, Alvarez said, though Chernoff said Murray had administered CPR many times before.
Not the same statement here at all
Muhammed, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived
March 22, 2010: The 911 dispatcher told Alvarez to put Jackson on the floor. At that moment, Muhammad rushed into the room and began helping with chest compressions while Murray attempted mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.
Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said. "Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.
March 22, 2010: Two of the star's children, Prince and Paris, came in the room and cried as they saw Murray trying to save their father. A nanny was called to usher them away and they were taken to wait outside in a vehicle.
Didn't Kai Chase, the Cook, say she took the children downstairs to pray.
Which Nanny are they talking about Grace?
There is a big difference between being taken downstairs to pray by the Cook and being taken outside to a vehicle by the Nanny.
And why didn't we see the children in any vehicle outside in Ben Evanstad's "Ambulance loading video", we can see an empty black SUV on that video?
March 22, 2010: Alberto Alvarez,...statement and those from two other Jackson employees also obtained by the AP...
Alvarez and the others who gave the statements, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams and driver/bodyguard Faheem Muhammad, Except for the brief appearances by the nanny and the children, Alvarez and Muhammad were the only others in the room with Murray as he tried to save Jackson before paramedics arrived.
Alvarez, Muhammad and Williams are all represented by attorney Carl Douglas and gave their statements separately on Aug. 31 at the lawyer's Beverly Hills office. None of the three has spoken publicly about the events of June 25.
But they have spoken to each other...
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=10173490&page=1
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Dont know if this is a hoax anymore..... :cry: :cry:
Have any room for me? I'm tired of all of this... mess! :|
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Did Kenny previously say MJ was healthy in any of his interviews?
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From what i recall he always said he's been excited and so ready for the show. I assume that means healthy too...
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One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"
"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said
surgeon? A cardiologist doesn't have to be surgeon too. I don't know about the medical field but.. Did he want to say cardiologist instead of surgeon or the person who wrote this doewn did a mistake?
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Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.
"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."
The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.
"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."
Okay, so Murray gets pissy because he thinks that Ortega had no right to send Michael home? First of all, Kenny was concerned. If he thought Michael was out of it or wasn't feeling well, what was he supposed to do, keep his mouth closed and ignore it because he wasn't "officially" his doctor? Uhm..really? I don't think so. Besides, Kenny didn't force Michael to go home. He asked. He gave Michael a choice and Michael chose to go home. It was Michael's choice.
I find it pretty silly that I-Don't-Know-How-To-Give-CPR-Murray would get upset that Kenny allowed Michael to come home. That's somethin'.
Ugh I can't wait for SOME bit of justice or truth to prevail. My heart can't take this anymore.
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Did he want to say cardiologist instead of surgeon or the person who wrote this down did a mistake?
No mistake,it was said he was a heart surgeon because Voiceforthesilent commented to me about it yesterday and said something along the lines of 'have you heard this,this just gets better,now they are saying he is a surgeon....'
I think she was watching it on TMZ's link not the ustream J4MJ link that was also active.
Updates as and when,remember though...it was only day one.Don't lose belief,there is a long way to go.
If Kenny turns out to be Judas,he can always be lynched (Y)
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But seriously, if you consider Murray to be a surgeon just because the Justice4MJ chat said so.....I'm sorry but that's just fantalk.
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I thought Paris was downstairs with Kai crying and praying that 'daddy' is okay...
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But seriously, if you consider Murray to be a surgeon just because the Justice4MJ chat said so.....I'm sorry but that's just fantalk.
Excuse me?I am sorry Anna but you really do jump on people too quick.This was written by someone inside the courtroom.This is what was said yesterday...no if's or but's about it.
Do not twist my words.
It has nothing to do with J4MJ they were simply there giving people updates during breaks in court.TMZ were reporting on it too.Infact,it probably came as a shock to them as much as anyone else.
If you have a problem with the truth being written down then I will refrain from updating this through the trial and leave it with just this.
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But seriously, if you consider Murray to be a surgeon just because the Justice4MJ chat said so.....I'm sorry but that's just fantalk.
Excuse me?I am sorry Anna but you really do jump on people too quick.This was written by someone inside the courtroom.This is what was said yesterday...no if's or but's about it.
Do not twist my words.
It has nothing to do with J4MJ they were simply there giving people updates during breaks in court.TMZ were reporting on it too.Infact,it probably came as a shock to them as much as anyone else.
If you have a problem with the truth being written down then I will refrain from updating this through the trial and leave it with just this.
I have no problem with it, and that's what I understood. That someone or you heard that in the talk in some of those live streams, which would be fantalk. That's what I mean.
I'm not twisting anyone's words, that's what I understood. Then, if someone said that, who is that someone? I want to see if it's really an official statement, because it does matter and I haven't heard that. Cause no one said so far Murray was a surgeon in any official statements.That's why I found it pretty strange.
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Thanks Sinderella for the update.
Besides all that has been said in this thread already, what makes no sense to me as well is that if Michael was dead, paramedics would not take him to the hospital.
A person who dies at home, must be decleared dead by a doctor and a judge (emergency judge) must proceed for the cadaver to be taken out the home. By that time, if MJ was murdered or was just an accident, the procedure would be the same.
A dead person (who dies at home) is not taken to the hospital unless is for examination, and if i am not totally mistaken, the body will be placed with the right forensics department.
This is Hollywood :?
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I have a bad feeling about this.
I'm starting to belive that Michael is dead, and the Hoax is a Hoax into another Hoax created by the Jackson Family, the Estate and more people who wants money, they want us to believe that he's alive.
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We are hardly the majority and for us "The BeLIEvers" to contribute to anyone making enough money to kill someone our numbers would have to be much more IMO. We are small potatos. Don't lose faith because of a possible rented court room, a bunch of actors and a small group of paid higher ups.
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I am now in more turmoil than ever. I have always believed that Michael was alive but I must confess, this whole Court case has me wavering. I cannot believe the case would be allowed to go ahead if Michael were alive even if it were a government/FBI coverup. This certainly would not be allowed to happen here in the UK. I just pray more evidence is revealed that keeps my hopes up.
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Maybe the hoax went wrong, I don't know..
This doesn't make sense.
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peggy99,This is also my point of view so i totally understand how you feel. Let's just be prepared for anything, just in case. We still have our lives so we don't have to get in depression. Michael will always be with us in one way or another.
and yes, pablito, doesn;t make sense at all. this is what i've been saying all day long.
just doesn't.
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o.k. i think i will panic now.........................x
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loyalfan, please, be strong no matter what. do not panic and don't forget you have people here you can talk to.
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Oh, come on! :roll: It's only been one day and there's already contradictions in the testamonies.
Besides, this part of the hoax was always going to be a bumpy ride, just let everything unravel before judging.
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there're already contradictions in the testimonies.
with a script there wouldn't have been.
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Sorry, but why the sadness?
Michael faced a trial based on fake events and accusations. Contradictions happened all the way and it was a real trial, costing money as well.
The only "truth" supporting a guilty person is that MJ is gone, but we don´t know what happened, if he was murdered, suicidal or wathever.
The same scenario we got in 2005. The "evidence" were the child criying telling he was molested and the mother creating a circus.
Our evidence? a memorial, people who cried? ah, yes, a photo taken by Michael´s friend the day he passed :|
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That's a simple way to put things just to lift our spirit, but nice.
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@Gema. I totally understand where you are coming from but when Michael faced trial someone actually brought these allegations against him so it was a legal case. What I am trying to say is, if Michael was indeed alive, then there would be no legal case to answer and I don't understand a legal system that would let this happen knowing it was a hoax. I have worked in the legal profession in the UK for 25 years and here, at least, there has to be strong evidence to suggest a crime has been committed. I'm not trying to be sad or to bring anyone down and in one way I do still believe. Just from my own perspective I'm finding all this really hard to swallow.
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And Peggy, what are the consequences for those who start a trial based on fake documents (such as death certificates etc)?
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We should wait.
Anyway, as I said before, if Mike is really dead, then all of this, the Teddy Rilley's tweets, the "5alive" thing, the fake ambulance picture, the contradictions, all the stuff and facts, and things related to the hoax that proves that Michael is alive, they are a bunch of things from another hoax that want us to believe that he is alive.
I'm not saying he's dead, I will wait till 2012.
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a bunch of things from another hoax that want us to believe that he is alive.
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The consequences here in the UK would be severe with the distinct possibility of prison sentences. This is what I don't understand about the whole thing. I can understand the hoax being created and followed but what I don't understand is how a Court of Law would be involved. Here in the UK, this just wouldn't happen.
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a bunch of things from another hoax that want us to believe that he is alive.
Yep, but with other purpose.
Money.
Not L.O.V.E. and "The greatest show in the world"
BTW: I'm from Argentina and my english sucks so bad, so it's a little harder to express myself
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I know.
Different actors.
Different purpose.
Fooled audience.
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Fake documents, actors, paid officials etc., I can deal with this but you cannot fake a court of law or indeed a Judge. The consequences would be too extreme.
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Looks like the American System has legal lagoons.
Back in 2005, Sneddon was supossed to fake evidences and go against the law.
Also, people being convicted to the death row for crimes they never commited or the other way, people being free after killing their wifes, i.e
If Michael is indeed alive, all this will prove how damaged the legal system is in USA.
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He's right.
The only thing that made me believe that Michael is still alive is that this hoax went wrong, and Ortega, the bodyguards and Michael's staff do not know that he's alive or that he faked is death.
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@Gema. I totally agree with you. This is what I was meaning. The English legal system I understand but when it comes to the US legal system anything can happen. This was my reason for being sceptical as this would just not happen here.
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The other thing I'm having difficulty with is Mrs. Jackson and the rest of the family. I could understand them bringing proceedings to keep the hoax alive but if and when Michael decides to reappear, then they are going to be in really serious trouble. I guess my question is ..... why would they do this? knowing the consequences.
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why would they do this? knowing the consequences.
wasn't it because Michael's life was in danger?
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The other thing I'm having difficulty with is Mrs. Jackson and the rest of the family. I could understand them bringing proceedings to keep the hoax alive but if and when Michael decides to reappear, then they are going to be in really serious trouble. I guess my question is ..... why would they do this? knowing the consequences.
If Michael ever comes back, the family will play the card of " :o we thought you were dead :o we burried you :o "
La Toya taking things from the home and blaming Grace? for stealing money was also a weird scenario.
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if that is the case, then Michael himself would face prison. Here in the UK he would be arrested immediately.
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Day 2-starts at 9.30 west coast time 5.30pm UK time
Updates as and when like I said earlier x
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if that is the case, then Michael himself would face prison. Here in the UK he would be arrested immediately.
But, if Michael Bams in...Bahrein for example, he won´t be extradited :D not forced to come back to USA for "faking your death".
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I've always been one to say that is Murray goes to jail, Michael is realy gone. I know it is too early to call but I feel that Murray has a very hard case to fight. I want Michael Jackson to be alive just as anyone here but the fact is, is that we still do not know what happened on June 25th, 2009. Sure we may have numerology and we might have TS redirects and such but the fact is, is that this whole Hoax is just a theory.
I will continue to keep the faith but hearing how the children were crying for their father while he was being recussatated is so heart breaking and reminds me of my grandfather's last moments in the hospital.
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I will continue to keep the faith but hearing how the children were crying for their father while he was being recussatated is so heart breaking and reminds me of my grandfather's last moments in the hospital.
But then you have to recall the memorial,FL funeral and other apperances the children made not so long after that day and look at their behaviour,lack of emotion-Prince chewing gum and looking bored,no tears,I am not saying in any way they are cold hearted they are beautiful children and ADORE their father...but that is the point,it would have been impossible to sit and look at a box containing your dad at that young age and not even shed a tear or look sad or mortified that life will never be the same.I mean....it is your daddys funeral,1 tear?
I would have struggled,broke down,and not really have been able to make any sort of speech and I am double their age.It would be my dad...irreplacable and heart breaking to sit through.
Those children did not look heartbroken to me,and i'm sorry to sound harsh but they didn't,they looked bored and then glad it was over with/everyone smiling on the stage at the end.
Michael is their whole world,and has been since the minute they entered this world so to see that on June 25th and then seem so bored during the staples memorial is not fitting IMO.They also got sent away on vacation to Hawaii which I found strange.
I have said since the day I believed that the children give it away,and my opinion hasn't changed.
I went to a funeral a few weeks after that myself of a close family member and it couldn't of been further from what I saw from Michael's family at his.The thought of never seeing him again,having him at parties,on photos,at any sort of point in my life from that day on was truly heart breaking and probably the saddest moment of my life.
It's only day 2,everyone needs to look back and remember what's come before this point in time.Michael needs you,an army needs strength and belief...
Don't break ranks just yet :)
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@Gema. Good point about Bahrain :D
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After reading this i'm almost sure that even if Michael is alive he will not come back, this is not a joke, my faith is weakened :cry: , i don't know, maybe we have gone too far, it's really frustrating, may God help us to reach out to the truth
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Some say Michael fars for his life and faked his death because of this....but why all the clues ? If i was in real danger and had to fake my life i make it real looking, without any doubt. He could make it, but he makes it his way ;)
I don't know the US justice and the usual procedure.
I wonder why this long preliminary hearing before it goes to the trial. Was it the same at the trial 2005 with Michael ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing)
I read Kenny has spoken under oath....is this practice in that hearings ? I don't think so...
They where at court houses, but not allways the same...so it looks like the legal systems are involved and they use a grey zone....not a real trial, only a hearing, one after the other....maybee not illegal, but looking real for most of the ppl......but not for us :lol:
Why are allways Katherine Jackson and other family members there ? They are not withness and if Michael would be rearly dead and Murray was guilty, it was such a great stress to look in the eyes of Murray...but they are laughing.....when i would have lost someone i love and i saw the one who could be guilty for the dead, i can't stand this...i would cry and break down....it all come up every time again, with every new hearing date.
How can Katherine stand this in her age ?
They where there in 2005 to support Michael and stabilize him, but here ? I would only hurt if it was real.
It was so obvious what they told us.....Murray don't know how to perfom CPR ????? :lol: The most naive guy would see that it can't be ! Every nurse could it make, here every car driver had to learn it to get a drivers licens...i had learned it in school and many times later refreshed.....it was the most silly thing in that case and it makes me take a deeper look after the 25.June 2009 and i got to learn much about Michael.
I am so sad that i have not much time to read and translate all the interesting treats.... :cry:
Love you all !
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Dr conrad murray is a sick joke.
come on,it's kind of funny when u think about:
CPR On a BED, giving CPR with only ONE hand and asking if someone knows CPR(I wonder what he got his medical degree, oh I know in a toy machine)
*omg* this is too much, what is this??it has to be a joke (a hoax).
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Thanks Sinderella for posting this and further summaries for us to examine.If we are firmly convinced Michael is alive by the many proofs we have found this 18 months, then we can enjoy the show as perfected art at its finest. MJ is a master and as usual has hired the best to work with him. A good movie leaves you glued to the end, not able to guess how it will go. Besides art he is showing the failure of the justice sytem for so many (he included in 2005), and human nature in judging before the evidence is in. I believe this case will be unprecidented, and even when MJ BAMS I don't think he would be arrested like everyone believes. I believe everything has been taken care of. I've never been so not afraid in my whole life. Let's love and support MJ and each other throughout this adventure!
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Great to have an update thread Sinderella, I will make this a global announcement so it will be easier to find.
I don't get why people loose faith that quickly. Of course this story is ridiculous, of course Murray seems to be a murderer. People are condemning him without there even being a body, without there being a believable story and because people say things the media reports, this people believe it. This is a statement because the same happened to Michael. During the 2005 trial Michael's own staff (household, bodyguards) sold FAKE stories to the media. People tend to believe stories like that because they come from people close to him. That doesn't mean they are true. Even after he was acquitted of ALL charges, people still saw him as a child molestor, so the legal system worked, yet the people can't seem to understand, think and research before they judge. That is not only a problem in the US or in Mike's case, but a world wide problem. I believe that this case is designed as a wake-up call. Michael is clearly alive. Who says Paris cried her eyes out? A bodyguard? Like Mike's bodyguards back in 2005 were saying he did inappropriate things to children?
Don't believe anything you hear just because they come from the in-crowd. Sit back, relax and let the man continue his masterwork. We will not be able to understand anything that happens yet, that is why we have been given that many clues that he never died, so that we will be able to reread the huge archive we built together and keep the faith no matter what happens. I believe that all will be revealed in due time, when Mike thinks it's time. I have complete faith in him and his masterplan and I will keep watchin'. WITH popcorn of course, because this is pretty damn entertaining. If day 1 starts with a cardiologist that doesn't know CPR, I can only imagine what kind of ridiculous stories will follow.
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thank u souza for those words, we all need to hear it again again and again to not lose faith!
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I also wanna thank u Souza for encouraging us, i'm really frustrated right now and needed it
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Thanks Souza!!! Your words are good very much :)
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I wanted to have an unshakable faith in this moment, but it is very difficult.
And now? Where is TS? :?
Hard to believe these people would pay a false statement. I think from now on, the facts can be resolved once. :cry: :cry:
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Would be easier just to follow the flow and admit that MJ is dead and Murray guilty, but it is so obvious.
All the subliminal messages are tangible, with this subliminal messages I am refering to La Toya´s white clothes and Katherine´s blue clothes, as well as Joe Jackson´s outfit last year, Murray´s video, and well, all the mistakes and contradictions.
Imo, we are being fooled big time. A court hearing is being "sold" to us and nothing makes sense, like if the script that got out of hand :? as happened with the Arvizo´s plan?
People say that we are in denial and can´t let go but this trial must be analyzed deeper by those who are just buying the "Murray is guilty" not even listening carefully or at least reading what the media is offering us, a resume full of contradictions and crime scenarios that do not make sense, as it does not the way the legal system is handeling the time line of the events.
Where are those freaking tapes? :evil: How could La Toya remove stuff just like that? what about the money and jewels? and the funniest, a person sedated already with propofol gets clear and wakes up and accurately injects more of it? What about the AR that we read? The question list can go on.
Now is not if Michael is dead, it is more if Murray is guilty and I don´t think so ;)
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If you folks starting to believe that Michael is dead then I am sorry I have to say Katherine is a BIG, FAT, INDEFFERENT, HEARTLESS BITCH, not a MOTHER if she could go Target for shopping when her SON died suddenly and is in refregerator waiting for autopsy .................. If this is possible at all, then Michael is dead. Cause this is one of the "king" clues among others.
BTW, how happened right there that moment suddenly reporter was around to picture her and post on youtube?????????????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTbODVE5R8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTbODVE5R8)
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You're all very welcome
Great post Souza,my thoughts exactly.
Personally,I think everyone needs to calm down.
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Personally, I'm very calm, purely expressing my opinion which I thought was the purpose of this site. It seems to me that as soon as someone says something against the "norm" they are chastised.
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Its SHOWTIME!!!
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I think if any of the RL law people involved also, say for instance, have moonlighting jobs as actors and can actually prove they are actors on the side, then what we could have here is a rented out court room and one big movie with nobody breaking any laws. They would be separating their real life duties from this big ACT. I think this could definately be the case. The legal aspects have been covered if Michael is alive. We do not know every detail of every person's life who is involved in this.
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in 2005, a lot of things have been officially said in court, and they were all BS but yet people have made their conclusions about it and were convinced before the end of the trial.
Please don't do the same right now....
We have clue that kept us together for 18 months, and just because some people make some statement, then it all goes poof ! And Michael is dead ?
Just wait for everything to be said before you make your decision...
Keep the faith !
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Personally, I'm very calm, purely expressing my opinion which I thought was the purpose of this site. It seems to me that as soon as someone says something against the "norm" they are chastised.
Not at all.It is not about going against the norm or having an opinion.
My comment about people calming down is in reference to people coming out with comments like
"this isn't a hoax,I think he really is dead...oh no...we've been wrong all this time,i'm lost,this is all real"etc after 1 day of the prelim-which is a hearing to decide whether it will go to full trial.people seem to be forgetting the past 18months in a heartbeat after a few hours and I don't get it..sorry,but I don't.
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I too think this is a hoax of some description and I honestly believe we will never have the answer. My problem with the whole thing is I (personally only), think things have gone too far and that too many people and/or organisations are now involved. Think for a moment, how many people are now involved in this and how many people would have to know about the hoax.
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I believe only a handful need know about the Hoax, as has been mentioned several times. Others just get caught up in stuff they know little about or are just doing as others are telling them to do.
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@Datroot. A bit like all of us then :D
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@Datroot. A bit like all of us then :D
Not quite - some of us are not doing as we are being told by the media - we are trying to make some sense of it ourselves by getting to the facts (if we can).
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Its SHOWTIME!!!
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7xoauH9lx1qb5vueo1_500.jpg)
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@Datroot. A bit like all of us then :D
Not quite - some of us are not doing as we are being told by the media - we are trying to make some sense of it ourselves by getting to the facts (if we can).
Exactly what I am trying to do.
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In fact, the fact is, we know no facts :D
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In fact, the fact is, we know no facts :D
Yet
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In fact, the fact is, we know no facts :D
Yet
Touche!! :lol:
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just stop being like media, digging all theories before the truth is said. I know you're all fed up waiting, but this is just gonna confuse your brains a little more...
Be patient and listen, watch...i'm sure it's not over yet.
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But it was the media that started this whole circus. If it wasn't for the media we wouldn't have known that MJ has "died" so where do we draw the line.
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If you folks starting to believe that Michael is dead then I am sorry I have to say Katherine is a BIG, FAT, INDEFFERENT, HEARTLESS BITCH, not a MOTHER if she could go Target for shopping when her SON died suddenly and is in refregerator waiting for autopsy .................. If this is possible at all, then Michael is dead. Cause this is one of the "king" clues among others.
BTW, how happened right there that moment suddenly reporter was around to picture her and post on youtube?????????????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTbODVE5R8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTbODVE5R8)
Didnt Cathrine say the reason she went shopping for camping stuff,is because after michael supossed to have passed,the children didnt want to leave her,they wanted to go home with her from the hospital,and they wanted to camp outside with their cousions,and she wanted to try and keep things as normal as possible for them,think thats right,....but your not telling me that,out of all the people that surround them,even if that were the case,someone would go and get them things for her,for the kids,not have to go herself,or even want to.just a thought.xx
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But it was the media that started this whole circus. If it wasn't for the media we wouldn't have known that MJ has "died" so where do we draw the line.
this forum simply makes me sick.
Yet, i see you a reasonable person and i wanted to remind you that Jermaine was the one who started the circus, so we may say the family fooled us not media. Unless , of course, God forgive us....
We all forget facts just to fit things in a hoax.
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But it was the media that started this whole circus. If it wasn't for the media we wouldn't have known that MJ has "died" so where do we draw the line.
this forum simply makes me sick.
Yet, i see you a reasonable person and i wanted to remind you that Jermaine was the one who started the circus, so we may say the family fooled us not media. Unless , of course, God forgive us....
We all forget facts just to fit things in a hoax.
It's the second time you say this forum makes you sick, so why are you staying? :shock:
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To get a penis update from your interesting thread about MJ trial
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To get a penis update from your interesting thread about MJ trial
Buhbye!
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this forum simply makes me sick.
Yet, i see you a reasonable person
Fistly,if it makes you sick why are you here?It isn't compulsory,no one is making you stay.
and Secondly,are you calling me an unreasonable person?You have zero knowledge about who I am,what I do,what I think..or anything really.This is only your 2nd post,quite brave of you to start posting assumptions about people who have been here a lot longer and have not done the same to you.
We're past having people on here causing trouble,dividing people and being negative.
Everyone on here is entitled as a human being to have an opinion,believe what they like and comment on it.If you don't like it,like I said..it isn't compulsory you be here.Go throw up somewhere else and stop making my thread untidy.
Anyway,on with the prelim..
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To get a penis update from your interesting thread about MJ trial
I must have missed the original post on this...that you are waiting to have updated.
Could you post the link about the penis trial please?
Or are you confusing these trial threads with something else, maybe not even this forum?
Objectification of Michael isn't tolerated very much on this site but you do realize that Michael uses his sex appeal to his advantage right?
He is obviously very aware that many women find him attractive.
Some of the forum members do sometimes make jokes about that but we can't be serious every moment.
Laughter is divine, you should try it.
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Thank you very much Sinderella and Souza for focussing on what really is going on!!!
BTW, TIAI redirected; http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE (http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE)
No justice, no peace; think about it!!We HAVE to go through this!
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if that is the case, then Michael himself would face prison. Here in the UK he would be arrested immediately.
But this is not in the UK is in USA in HOLLYWOOD going "Hollywood" Im sure its all taken care of. ;)
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There are people who are due very soon,..all knew that this has to come
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Thank you very much Sinderella and Souza for focussing on what really is going on!!!
Most welcome =]
Kai Chase is up next/currently on the stand...this should be interesting
Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Think about it...for a moment before you jump on me,what OFFICIAL products,events,anything that is MJ related have you seen with RIP on?Or that suggests he is dead?
You will be hard pushed to find anything officially licensed that has in loving memory on or RIP.They don't exist.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
I can't tell you how I know or why because..well I just can't(sorry) but there has not been one OFFICIAL/endorsed tribute show for Michael-you know the king of pop,the man who changed music,made MTV,inspired almost every living artist today....why?because they can't hold an event that people would go to based on it being for his 'memory' when he is not gone.There would be uproar and all hell would break loose.Refunds right and left.
Every show that has been 'planned' has been cancelled and not gone ahead.This is why.
First thing that should have happened is a tribute concert featuring global artists who owe him for his inspiration and so on...but nope....and No,Jermaine's Vegas show doesn't count because it was not promoted as a MJ tribute show or say RIP or in memory of.. it was Jermaine singing songs he wrote for J5 and doing a few of Michael's which could not be put onto DVD or be recorded/released.So nothing illegal went on there.People paid to see Jermaine.
Anything out there atm,is promoting his legacy,which he would have anyway dead or alive.It is his,regardless of him breathing or not.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
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if that is the case, then Michael himself would face prison. Here in the UK he would be arrested immediately.
But this is not in the UK is in USA in HOLLYWOOD going "Hollywood" Im sure its all taken care of. ;)
I guess I really didn't understand the "power" of Hollywood. Forgive me if I've offended anyone but it really wasn't my intention.
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Thank you very much Sinderella and Souza for focussing on what really is going on!!!
Most welcome =]
Kai Chase is up next/currently on the stand...this should be interesting
Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spose claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Think about it...for a moment before you jump on me,what OFFICIAL products,events,anything that is MJ related have you seen with RIP on?Or that suggests he is dead?
You will be hard pushed to find anything officially licensed that has in loving memory on or RIP.They don't exist.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
I can't tell you how I know because..well I just can't(sorry) but there has not been one OFFICIAL/endorsed tribute show for Michael-you know the king of pop,the man who changed music,made MTV,inspired almost every living artist today....why?because they can't hold an event that people would go to based on it being for his 'memory' when he is not gone.There would be uproar and all hell would break loose.Refunds right and left.
Every show that has been 'planned' has been cancelled and not gone ahead.This is why.
First thing that should have happened is a tribute concert featuring global artists who owe him for his inspiration and so on...but nope....and No,Jermaine's Vegas show doesn't count because it was not promoted as a MJ tribute show or say RIP or in memory of.. it was Jermaine singing songs he wrote for J5 and doing a few of Michael's which could not be put onto DVD or be recorded/released.So nothing illegal went on there.People paid to see Jermaine.
Anything out there atm,is promoting his legacy,which he would have anyway dead or alive.It is his,regardless of him breathing or not.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Excellent post. I hadn't looked at it this way before.
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Hollywood is the most ruthless,soul destroying,harsh,powerful,life ruining,fake,cold hearted place.....underneath the palm trees,sunshine,stars,flash cars,beautiful people,hopes and dreams and $$$$$.
Both sides balance each other out,can't have one without the other....sadly.
@peggy you are very welcome,always great to get a new perspective on things right?
Even this late on x
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Thank you very much Sinderella and Souza for focussing on what really is going on!!!
Most welcome =]
Kai Chase is up next/currently on the stand...this should be interesting
Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spose claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Think about it...for a moment before you jump on me,what OFFICIAL products,events,anything that is MJ related have you seen with RIP on?Or that suggests he is dead?
You will be hard pushed to find anything officially licensed that has in loving memory on or RIP.They don't exist.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
I can't tell you how I know because..well I just can't(sorry) but there has not been one OFFICIAL/endorsed tribute show for Michael-you know the king of pop,the man who changed music,made MTV,inspired almost every living artist today....why?because they can't hold an event that people would go to based on it being for his 'memory' when he is not gone.There would be uproar and all hell would break loose.Refunds right and left.
Every show that has been 'planned' has been cancelled and not gone ahead.This is why.
First thing that should have happened is a tribute concert featuring global artists who owe him for his inspiration and so on...but nope....and No,Jermaine's Vegas show doesn't count because it was not promoted as a MJ tribute show or say RIP or in memory of.. it was Jermaine singing songs he wrote for J5 and doing a few of Michael's which could not be put onto DVD or be recorded/released.So nothing illegal went on there.People paid to see Jermaine.
Anything out there atm,is promoting his legacy,which he would have anyway dead or alive.It is his,regardless of him breathing or not.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Excellent post. I hadn't looked at it this way before.
Sinderella, if you are a girl, may I marry u?
really, I was like :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: reading your post. This is the first time I see it like that. you are damn right..
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Hahaha,yah I am a girl
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-more-details-on-day-of-pop-stars-death.html
Just something to read the LA times just put up until the court session is over and full summary is available x
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Sinderella, don't know USA system. Do you have to pay taxes as a citizen? I am not talking about making a profit here. Killing your identity and not paying those taxes as a citizen of the USA isn't tax evasion or something? I mean fooling the system and get away with it? Cause if so, it's great for USA citizens yay
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Sinderella, don't know USA system. Do you have to pay taxes as a citizen? I am not talking about making a profit here. Killing your identity and not paying those taxes as a citizen of the USA isn't tax evasion or something?
You have to pay taxes on earned income or inheritance....couldnt the estate be paying the taxes?
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This is why asking, cause in my country i have to fill in thousands of declarations and statements whether i earn or not and declare a 0 income , but still need to exist in the system and even pay some. isn't faking death fooling the rules of living as a legal citizen in all aspects ?
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Sinderella, don't know USA system. Do you have to pay taxes as a citizen? I am not talking about making a profit here. Killing your identity and not paying those taxes as a citizen of the USA isn't tax evasion or something?
You have to buy taxes on earned income or inheritance....couldnt the estate be paying the taxes?
Yes, the estate is most likely handling the taxes.
My biggest concern for Michael if he ever comes back is the amount of random people who will try to sue him for the stress they endured thinking he had died. If someone can successfully sue McDonalds because their coffee or pickle burned them, I'm sure someone will try to sue Michael for lost wages due to being too stressed out to work. Maybe the person even lost their job for not coming to work. Or a college student will try to sue because they were too stressed to study, got poor grades that semester and consequently lost their scholarship. It may seem farfetched to some, but people sue for almost anything in this country.
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Thank you very much Sinderella and Souza for focussing on what really is going on!!!
Most welcome =]
Kai Chase is up next/currently on the stand...this should be interesting
Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spose claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Think about it...for a moment before you jump on me,what OFFICIAL products,events,anything that is MJ related have you seen with RIP on?Or that suggests he is dead?
You will be hard pushed to find anything officially licensed that has in loving memory on or RIP.They don't exist.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
I can't tell you how I know because..well I just can't(sorry) but there has not been one OFFICIAL/endorsed tribute show for Michael-you know the king of pop,the man who changed music,made MTV,inspired almost every living artist today....why?because they can't hold an event that people would go to based on it being for his 'memory' when he is not gone.There would be uproar and all hell would break loose.Refunds right and left.
Every show that has been 'planned' has been cancelled and not gone ahead.This is why.
First thing that should have happened is a tribute concert featuring global artists who owe him for his inspiration and so on...but nope....and No,Jermaine's Vegas show doesn't count because it was not promoted as a MJ tribute show or say RIP or in memory of.. it was Jermaine singing songs he wrote for J5 and doing a few of Michael's which could not be put onto DVD or be recorded/released.So nothing illegal went on there.People paid to see Jermaine.
Anything out there atm,is promoting his legacy,which he would have anyway dead or alive.It is his,regardless of him breathing or not.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Excellent post. I hadn't looked at it this way before.
Sinderella, if you are a girl, may I marry u?
really, I was like :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: reading your post. This is the first time I see it like that. you are damn right..
What about the momorial service the tickets were clearly on sale...so this idea does not ad up tome...no official tribute...well this is one official tribute/good bye...
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And if Michael is not gone, then he starts to incriminate more and more people.
This DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE HOAX.
Maybe Michael was suspiscious of his body guards too. He lost trust on people he hired. I have no clue.The more I read about this the more I am so confused. I am still positive, that he is alive.
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The estate will be paying all taxes just like they have been paying the debts back using the money made since his 'death' but not made from promoting his death...used from rebuilding his image,the TII dvd,cd,merch,album sales,merch,etc.Still..nothing had RIP on.
Michael Jackson has been named this year's top-earning dead celebrity, with earnings of nearly £175million ($275 million).
The singer, who died aged 50 in June 2009, earned a staggering £173million over the past twelve months - more than pop stars Lady Gaga, Madonna and Jay-Z combined.
His earnings were also more than the other 12 celebrities on the Forbes list, which included John Lennon, Steve McQueen and Elvis Presley
He hadn't been on the list before that so they did something right.
Check it out
http://www.pravda.us/news/society/26-10-2010/115527-jackson-0/
Very clever man ;)
@loud they were not on sale,people entered their names into an online lottery from all around the world and they were picked at random.When you gave it in you got a wristband and programme.The city of LA footed the bill mostly.
I was given mine but couldn't attend due to having a flight at the same time.W
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http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/QzWtxPOI ... el+Jackson (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/QzWtxPOI9n3/Michael+memorial+service+program/_KQAwSanwHE/Michael+Jackson)
RIP right and clearly here!!! Sorry...
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http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/QzWtxPOI9n3/Michael+memorial+service+program/_KQAwSanwHE/Michael+Jackson
RIP right and clearly here!!! Sorry...
I think you dont get it. those words are from Grace Rwaramba. And I think she did not earn anything with that picture..
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roman law, latin
2 different personas:
The individual Michael Jackson
& The legal persona thus the Estate.
How can the legal persona pay taxes in the name of the individual persona if that individual persona doesn't exist in files as a person alive?
I' judge by the laws i know, maybe you know exacly the answer for US
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http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/QzWtxPOI9n3/Michael+memorial+service+program/_KQAwSanwHE/Michael+Jackson
RIP right and clearly here!!! Sorry...
That was in the memorial book....which was not sold therefore no money was made from it....which is the point I made to start with.I never said the book never said RIP.I said merch,TII dvd,cd,Albums,and so on.Lack of tribute show etc etc.
Any memorial book being sold is from someone who was there and it is 2nd hand.They did not purchase it,it was part of being selected in the lottery.They are selling them for profit for themselves not to give back to the Estate.
I'm not sure why your trying to prove me wrong....I wouldn't have said it if it wasn't factual.
I work in music and Entertainment...I'm not speaking and not knowing what I am on about.
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http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/QzWtxPOI9n3/Michael+memorial+service+program/_KQAwSanwHE/Michael+Jackson
RIP right and clearly here!!! Sorry...
I think you dont get it. those words are from Grace Rwaramba. And I think she did not earn anything with that picture..
...well I do get it...believe me :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=101&t=11193 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=11193)
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http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/QzWtxPOI9n3/Michael+memorial+service+program/_KQAwSanwHE/Michael+Jackson
RIP right and clearly here!!! Sorry...
That was in the memorial book....which was not sold therefore no money was made from it....which is the point I made to start with.I never said the book never said RIP.I said merch,TII dvd,cd,Albums,and so on.Lack of tribute show etc etc.
Any memorial book being sold is from someone who was there and it is 2nd hand.They did not purchase it,it was part of being selected in the lottery.They are selling them for profit for themselves not to give back to the Estate.
I'm not sure why your trying to prove me wrong....I wouldn't have said it if it wasn't factual.
I work in music and Entertainment...I'm not speaking and not knowing what I am on about.
There was another memorila book and it was sold...even the gold one was sold!!! I have bought it :roll:
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roman law, latin
2 different personas:
The individual Michael Jackson
& The legal persona thus the Estate.
How can the legal persona pay taxes in the name of the individual persona if that individual persona doesn't exist in files as a person alive?
I' judge by the laws i know, maybe you know exacly the answer for US
I believe it would be because the money will be going to the estate and not to the individual. I would also imagine his children have to pay individual taxes. My grandson is 4 years old has has to pay taxes on money that is held in trust for him until he is 18. This is money that he will recieve when he is 18 from his Native American tribe.
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karen, but we are not talking about legal guardien for minors, because sure they dont have legal capacity to administrate, we are talking about an adult with full rights and obligations. so the question would be is it ok if i fake my death in US and no one can pay taxes for me because i am dead and it's impossible ? can i just live in hiding all my life and defy all rules of the society in US?
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Regardless,the memorial book will have gone to pay for the staples center/security it won't have gone into the estate/any Jackson's pocket.It will not be classed a product earning money for the Estate or children of Michael Jackson.
I do not want this thread to go like so many others and go so off topic it gets locked.
I was simply giving people an option to look at it from another angle,from the angle I do,because of what I do in order to boost spirits and restore believe/faith.
It is not something I wrote to become a major discussion,maybe I will open another thread on it instead and it can be discussed there in full if you like?
Apologies for taking it off the topic of the prelim/trial,my fault.
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karen, but we are not talking about legal guardien for minors, because sure they dont have legal capacity to administrate, we are talking about an adult with full rights and obligations. so the question would be is it ok if i fake my death in US and no one can pay taxes for me because i am dead and it's impossible ? can i just live in hiding all my life and defy all rules of the society in US?
The point is that Michael is not making any money right now because it is all going to the estate, and the estate is likely paying the taxes along with other bills. If/when Michael comes back, the estate would likely be dissolved, the money would go back to Michael, and he would resume paying the taxes.
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Regardless,the memorial book will have gone to pay for the staples center/security it won't have gone into the estate/any Jackson's pocket.It will not be classed a product earning money for the Estate or children of Michael Jackson.
I do not want this thread to go like so many others and go so off topic it gets locked.
I was simply giving people an option to look at it from another angle,from the angle I do,because of what I do in order to boost spirits and restore believe/faith.
It is not something I wrote to become a major discussion,maybe I will open another thread on it instead and it can be discussed there in full if you like?
Apologies for taking it off the topic of the prelim/trial,my fault.
Also, didn't the estate pay money back to the City of Los Angeles to cover the costs of the Memorial anyway?
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I craeted a thread about it at General talk
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Regardless,the memorial book will have gone to pay for the staples center/security it won't have gone into the estate/any Jackson's pocket.It will not be classed a product earning money for the Estate or children of Michael Jackson.
I do not want this thread to go like so many others and go so off topic it gets locked.
I was simply giving people an option to look at it from another angle,from the angle I do,because of what I do in order to boost spirits and restore believe/faith.
It is not something I wrote to become a major discussion,maybe I will open another thread on it instead and it can be discussed there in full if you like?
Apologies for taking it off the topic of the prelim/trial,my fault.
Also, didn't the estate pay money back to the City of Los Angeles to cover the costs of the Memorial anyway?
AEG own the Staples and Nokia LIVE centers,they along with the Jackson family contributed between $1.3million and $2million to the cost.The city pays a certain amount for it's use of public service ir police,for things like this out the city's fund anyway regardless.
It cost around $3.2million in total.
When I said $$$ will have gone into paying for the staples center/security,it went to pay for staff,because at the time they had just done a mass job cut and had to bring more staff,security etc in for that whole day.Clean up crews etc.
Just so we're clear on what I mean.AEG didn't earn money from it,they footed half the bill with the estate,therefore,not making a profit from Michael's 'death'.
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I craeted a thread about it at General talk
About what sorry?
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about faking death and tax evasion , consequences
so we can stay on topic here
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Hey guys, I read that the trial could last up to two weeks and that it continues tomorrow, but does that include the weekend? I live in the area and would like to go even if I can't get in but I haven't been able to due to school but if it runs on the weekend I will go. Does someone know the answer to this?
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Hey guys, I read that the trial could last up to two weeks and that it continues tomorrow, but does that include the weekend? I live in the area and would like to go even if I can't get in but I haven't been able to due to school but if it runs on the weekend I will go. Does someone know the answer to this?
I'm almost positive that Courts are never in session over the weekend.
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Hey guys, I read that the trial could last up to two weeks and that it continues tomorrow, but does that include the weekend? I live in the area and would like to go even if I can't get in but I haven't been able to due to school but if it runs on the weekend I will go. Does someone know the answer to this?
Court doesn't go into session over a weekend,even if it is MJ's prelim.Only inmates go on a Saturday and that is rare.
Monday to Friday.
To get in you need to be there from 8amish,they are doing a lottery for people who are there first,and then the same in the afternoon when it goes back to being in session.
I'd go at 5 to 8 to beat the J4MJ people haha
Hope that helps x
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Hey guys, I read that the trial could last up to two weeks and that it continues tomorrow, but does that include the weekend? I live in the area and would like to go even if I can't get in but I haven't been able to due to school but if it runs on the weekend I will go. Does someone know the answer to this?
Court doesn't go into session over a weekend,even if it is MJ's prelim.Only inmates go on a Saturday and that is rare.
Monday to Friday.
To get in you need to be there from 8amish,they are doing a lottery for people who are there first,and then the same in the afternoon when it goes back to being in session.
I'd go at 5 to 8 to beat the J4MJ people haha
Hope that helps x
Thank you so much. Yes it looks like I'll have to go one of these days when my school days are light.
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Not a problem cherub,if I can get you any more info I will @you on this thread =]
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Hey guys, I read that the trial could last up to two weeks and that it continues tomorrow, but does that include the weekend? I live in the area and would like to go even if I can't get in but I haven't been able to due to school but if it runs on the weekend I will go. Does someone know the answer to this?
Usually in a prelim, they do not work on weekends. But once they are at the offical trial, it is up to the Judge to decide if they work weekends or how long they are in session for the day. I was once at Court for a friend and we were at the couthouse at midnight so that the jury could have the weekend off. We were waiting for a verdict at the time.
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so sad to read about the events of that day :(
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Did he want to say cardiologist instead of surgeon or the person who wrote this down did a mistake?
No mistake,it was said he was a heart surgeon because Voiceforthesilent commented to me about it yesterday and said something along the lines of 'have you heard this,this just gets better,now they are saying he is a surgeon....'
I think she was watching it on TMZ's link not the ustream J4MJ link that was also active.
Updates as and when,remember though...it was only day one.Don't lose belief,there is a long way to go.
If Kenny turns out to be Judas,he can always be lynched (Y)
Ah! a heart surgeon who doesn't know how to perform CPR,hahahahah.Nurses and MD doctors knows how to do CPR, it is a primary thing to learn. . Look this man is a cardiologist, surgeon, like I am the Queen of England. :lol: The more this court case is going on the more confusion is coming out of it. I hope everything will come out soon. Blessings
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Regardless,the memorial book will have gone to pay for the staples center/security it won't have gone into the estate/any Jackson's pocket.It will not be classed a product earning money for the Estate or children of Michael Jackson.
I do not want this thread to go like so many others and go so off topic it gets locked.
I was simply giving people an option to look at it from another angle,from the angle I do,because of what I do in order to boost spirits and restore believe/faith.
It is not something I wrote to become a major discussion,maybe I will open another thread on it instead and it can be discussed there in full if you like?
Apologies for taking it off the topic of the prelim/trial,my fault.
Your post was just about the light of my day! It makes total sense and you are absolutely correct. I had not thought of it from that angle! BRAVA!
Question re Alvarez testimony: He said when the 911 operator told him to move MJ to the ground, the "doc" and he moved him, with the doc taking the upper body and he the LEG. One leg wouldn't that be kind of hard to do with the phone in one hand? I mean, supposedly we are talking about someone 20 minutes dead (and therefore being dead weight). Wouldn't we hear the exertion on the 911 call?
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Dont know if this is a hoax anymore..... :cry: :cry:
I'm with you.
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Hollywood is the most ruthless,soul destroying,harsh,powerful,life ruining,fake,cold hearted place.....underneath the palm trees,sunshine,stars,flash cars,beautiful people,hopes and dreams and $$$$$.
Both sides balance each other out,can't have one without the other....sadly.
@peggy you are very welcome,always great to get a new perspective on things right?
Even this late on x
You have nailed the degradation and debauchery that is Hollywood on the head.
God, the stories I could tell you about the place would make you vomit...
It's all a mirage...
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Sinderella, don't know USA system. Do you have to pay taxes as a citizen? I am not talking about making a profit here. Killing your identity and not paying those taxes as a citizen of the USA isn't tax evasion or something? I mean fooling the system and get away with it? Cause if so, it's great for USA citizens yay
Yes, we pay taxes. If the sole purpose of faking your death is to evade said taxes (whether levied or expected to be levied), then yes. It's a crime.
OTOH, if you are taken into the witness security program, and given a new identity by the federal government, or the California government (Cali's BII has a similar program designed for cases not under federal jurisdiction...CAL WRAP), any income earned under the newly assumed identity would be taxable.
If this is the case, and Michael is in some sort of protection program (whether federal or state), I don't believe he has assumed a new identity, and as the 'deceased' he is not actively earning income. His estate is. Those tax issues will be sorted out under the tax laws that are applicable to the estate.
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Of course Murray was upset his job was to make sure Mj was ok and did miss any rehearsals. In order for him to be paid they needed a healthy MJ regardless if sick or not.
Some of you dont get it. I see why becasause you are 16, 17, and so and donot understand.
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Hey guys, I read that the trial could last up to two weeks and that it continues tomorrow, but does that include the weekend? I live in the area and would like to go even if I can't get in but I haven't been able to due to school but if it runs on the weekend I will go. Does someone know the answer to this?
The presiding judge has sole discretion over the length and duration of each day's proceedings.
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Are we starting to forget the 911 call? Shame. The person on the other line said to 'put him on the floor'. From the number of seconds between that saying and whoever called 911 saying 'okay', no one could've placed Michael on the floor in that little time. As a matter of fact, whoever said 'okay' was on the PHONE and he did not say 'He said put him on the floor', he simply said 'okay'!!!
If Michael really did die, maybe CM was in a state of shock. Maybe he never experienced something so soon like that to happen. He may have forgotten what to do. If you had someone dying under your care, I know you would possibly have a meltdown, but that's IMO.
--reason
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Sinderella, don't know USA system. Do you have to pay taxes as a citizen? I am not talking about making a profit here. Killing your identity and not paying those taxes as a citizen of the USA isn't tax evasion or something? I mean fooling the system and get away with it? Cause if so, it's great for USA citizens yay
Tax evasion would be considered if you work for cash and not pay taxes or have business and perform money leverage or laundry to avoid pating taxes. If you declared yourself dead for serious reason, that means person does not exist, thus, there is no tax evasion issue. Moreover, MJ 's estate works and pays taxes from profit.
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If you folks starting to believe that Michael is dead then I am sorry I have to say Katherine is a BIG, FAT, INDEFFERENT, HEARTLESS BITCH, not a MOTHER if she could go Target for shopping when her SON died suddenly and is in refregerator waiting for autopsy .................. If this is possible at all, then Michael is dead. Cause this is one of the "king" clues among others.
BTW, how happened right there that moment suddenly reporter was around to picture her and post on youtube?????????????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTbODVE5R8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTbODVE5R8)
Didnt Cathrine say the reason she went shopping for camping stuff,is because after michael supossed to have passed,the children didnt want to leave her,they wanted to go home with her from the hospital,and they wanted to camp outside with their cousions,and she wanted to try and keep things as normal as possible for them,think thats right,....but your not telling me that,out of all the people that surround them,even if that were the case,someone would go and get them things for her,for the kids,not have to go herself,or even want to.just a thought.xx
I don't think Katherine made comments regarding that trip to store. Nevertheless, there are no reasons that would justify shopping, especially for camping, when your son/father just died. But that's me.
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I don't get why people loose faith that quickly. Of course this story is ridiculous, of course Murray seems to be a murderer. People are condemning him without there even being a body, without there being a believable story and because people say things the media reports, this people believe it. This is a statement because the same happened to Michael. ..., I will keep watchin'. WITH popcorn of course, because this is pretty damn entertaining. If day 1 starts with a cardiologist that doesn't know CPR, I can only imagine what kind of ridiculous stories will follow.
Thanks Souza, I couldn't have said it better myself!!! I keep thinking about the lyrics to Michael's "Tabloid Junkie!" I also believe that it's all rented court rooms and high paid actors :!: :!: :!: :!:
We need to do as Michael said in another of his songs, "Keep the faith, don't let nobody turn you round!" Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." What is it that we have been hoping for since the start of this forum? What is it? :!: :!: :!: And look at all of the evidence that has been revealed through this forum, that points to Michael not being dead, even though he has not been seen by the public since June 2009 that causes us to hope for it!!!
I'm not surprised that people are loosing faith. If there were a list entitled "The Things That People Loose Quickly" I'm afraid that faith would top the list! Most people seem to find faith to be like a slippery bar of soap, hard to hold on to :!:
I leave you all with more words from Michael's song:
"So Keep The Faith, Ow
Don't Let Nobody Take You Down,Brother
Just Keep Your Eyes On The Prize
And Your Feet Flat On The Ground
Keep The Faith, Baby, Yea
Because It's Just A Matter Of Time
Before Your Confidence Will Win Out"
And oh by the way, I was listening to the news last night here in LA when the person reporting on this story said in so many words that based on the evidence so far this case probably would not go to court. I thought ummmm, that was a very interesting comment to make. For those of us who don't believe he is dead I think this is a clue, and for those who think he is dead I think this is something to keep the pot stirred up!
I am excited, because I feel that the truth (what we have been hoping for) will be revealed "soon, and very soon!"
Stay faithful people!
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which makes my head hurt to think, our system is trying to convict a man of killing another man that is not dead. And MJ is going to expose it.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
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bec, a real trial makes Michael guilty at his return.
your theory is not very logical.
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bec, a real trial makes Michael guilty at his return.
your theory is not very logical.
guilty of what?
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bec, first you can't fake your death, let a man in jail for your death and then come back to say: "got ya. i did it!" Michael would face some serious problems.
second, this means all the trial was based on false oath and false documents and that also leads to serious problems for everyone involved, employees, friends, family so again.
I don't know how old you are, if you're working somewhere, sorry, no offense, but you seem to not understand that this is not and can't be very easy, you may love movies and there everything is possible because they can defy any detail they don't like for the sake of the movie, but this is life.
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bec, first you can't fake your death, let a man in jail for your death and then come back to say: "got ya. i did it!" Michael would face some serious problems.
second, this means all the trial was based on false oath and false documents and that also leads to serious problems for everyone involved, employees, friends, family so again.
I don't know how old you are, if you're working somewhere, sorry, no offense, but you seem to not understand that this is not and can't be very easy, you may love movies and there everything is possible because they can defy any detail they don't like for the sake of the movie, but this is life.
You are so incredibly condescending all over this board tonight you can sincerely fuck off if you like.
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DRAMA!!! this is not about us this is about michael. we are all trying to find out the truth, whatever that truth may be. I have to admit i am scared but this is no time to be arguing. NONE of us know the truth about what happened that day, so what are yall fighting for? lets focus and stick together, and no matter what happened that day, we will keeps michaels light burning forever and spread L.O.V.E. and help to everyone we possibly can. God bless, and may Jesus be with all of us and michael.
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bec, first you can't fake your death, let a man in jail for your death and then come back to say: "got ya. i did it!" Michael would face some serious problems.
second, this means all the trial was based on false oath and false documents and that also leads to serious problems for everyone involved, employees, friends, family so again.
I don't know how old you are, if you're working somewhere, sorry, no offense, but you seem to not understand that this is not and can't be very easy, you may love movies and there everything is possible because they can defy any detail they don't like for the sake of the movie, but this is life.
You are so incredibly condescending all over this board tonight you can sincerely fuck off if you like.
You asked: guilty of what?
And you can sincerely fuck off first if you're that immature and can't handle a convo.
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Here is the family arriving in and out of court
[youtube:3vjirk88]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxXx5HaQxfk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:3vjirk88]
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Also in a separate post...lets be kind to each other there is no need to act with hate which is exactly what is going on...if there is no love then there is hate...lets move on and continue to take this journey TOGETHER with everyone on board...LOVE you ALL.
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well,he told me to fuck off just because he had no arguments , what was i supposed to just sit and watch.
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well,he told me to fuck off just because he had no arguments , what was i supposed to just sit and watch.
No def not I was saying it not specifically to you or to the other just for all. But I'm sorry you got sworn at.
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bec, first you can't fake your death, let a man in jail for your death and then come back to say: "got ya. i did it!" Michael would face some serious problems.
second, this means all the trial was based on false oath and false documents and that also leads to serious problems for everyone involved, employees, friends, family so again.
I don't know how old you are, if you're working somewhere, sorry, no offense, but you seem to not understand that this is not and can't be very easy, you may love movies and there everything is possible because they can defy any detail they don't like for the sake of the movie, but this is life.
What a jerk.
Indirectly rude.
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Pablito, no i am not a jerk if i say my opinion, why is everybody so stressed and defensive on this forum, u gotta chill.
So, Pablito i think we're manipulated in some way too. All this BS. What if Teddy did their game and send him for unbelievers just to grow the amount of believers. At this point, nothing is too far fetched anymore. If i believed in one hoax then i can believe in any hoax
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I just wanna say all these testimonies break my heart......can't read it anymore...... :cry: :cry: :cry:
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which makes my head hurt to think, our system is trying to convict a man of killing another man that is not dead. And MJ is going to expose it.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
Disagree. This hoax is about, should be about much more than setting up justice system. MJ was announced not guilty of all charges. What else do we need? Justice was done. You mean Michael should not be prosecuted? Wrong. If you think from prosecutor's prospective, that is their job to pursue if they have got complaint, especially from teenager. Michael should not give that opportunity to them. Even if prosecutor would have known the extortion is the ground of accusations. However, prudent person thinks, Michael must sleep with woman or man (if he is gay of course), but not with strange to him children. Yes, we know Michael is innocent and pure, but prosecutor can't say that in response to complaint:"Oh, you know what it's ok, that's Michael, he is pure , harmless man". No, they have to do their job. In other words, Michael should not be that careless, especially that in the past he once already experienced bad people greed.
So, this hoax must be about, I would say for example, to expose corruption in medical and pharmacy system. Or money.......in the first place for everything unfortunately.
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scorpionchik, thank god someone is thinking logical on this board
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Pablito, no i am not a jerk if i say my opinion, why is everybody so stressed and defensive on this forum, u gotta chill.
So, Pablito i think we're manipulated in some way too. All this BS. What if Teddy did their game and send him for unbelievers just to grow the amount of believers. At this point, nothing is too far fetched anymore. If i believed in one hoax then i can believe in any hoax
It was not your opinion, it was the way you said your opinion, but it's okay, let's just forget it.
Thanks for sharing my opinion.
Sometimes I don't believe in Teddy's tweets.
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cascade I thought you were leaving......changed your mind?
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bec, first you can't fake your death, let a man in jail for your death and then come back to say: "got ya. i did it!" Michael would face some serious problems.
second, this means all the trial was based on false oath and false documents and that also leads to serious problems for everyone involved, employees, friends, family so again.
I don't know how old you are, if you're working somewhere, sorry, no offense, but you seem to not understand that this is not and can't be very easy, you may love movies and there everything is possible because they can defy any detail they don't like for the sake of the movie, but this is life.
C´m on guys, please read Sinderellas posts carefully about the circumstances under which you CAN fake your death legally, because she KNOWS what she is saying there.And I know that because we have been busy on this topic since 18 months and gathered so much evidence and reassurance from official points of view, that right now it is about telling these arguments again and again to those who hear it for the first time.Which is not bad, but makes me understand bec`s reaction quite well since he/she is on this forum since a long time. From the moment on you fake your death "officially protected", the bounds of possibilities are taking place on a bigger scale than you can think of as a "normal" citizen, acting within the random system.I did feel it as an insult on bec to read questions about his/her age, work,and that this is all not easy and real life which, according to cascademjs, he does not seem to realize.Which, I think, from knowing becs posts, definately is not true.BTW, why would thinking of this trial being a REAL trial be so far fetched? I`d say let us stay calm and wait and see, save our energies, we have some walk to do and in the meantime we so now and then need a good laugh, too. In the past, I often had a good laugh with becs posts, so please :)
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What happened?
This thread is here for prelim/trial updates not for people to argue,be rude to each other and start teaming up against other members which is what I can see has started to happen.
Sorry,but i'm not having it.This thread will not go down that path like so many others have done on the forum.
It is vital all information coming from this event is documented and discussed in a proper CIVILIZED manner.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion,but seriously if you are commenting in order to cause drama,arguments,rile people up the wrong way and then start some sort of name calling session then I will be pissed,the thread will get locked and it will be another one gone due to ridiculous reasons.
Please,can we be, if not nice..respectful to each other?
Productive not destructive!
@Gina,doll,you can't believe what is being said in that courtroom,there is about 5 conflicting stories up to now and it's only been 2days.The only person who's story hasn't changed in 18months,is Kai's.This is now expected to last 3weeks so,ride the wave and be strong.x
@raphaelleanique great post =]
@everyone....Eat popcorn,drink some tea and be awesome
Love Sin
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Sind, call me when you release such clue about money and the estate, you bad bad girl !!! :lol:
May i suggest this post should be cleaned and locked for Sind and mod or admin to post only, and there should be another public thread for "talk about info posted in here" but at least all the summary would be here, clear of all "off topic" comments and second thread would be to talk about the summary. Would be REALLY REALLY more clear this way for people to find info among all this.
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which makes my head hurt to think, our system is trying to convict a man of killing another man that is not dead. And MJ is going to expose it.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
Disagree. This hoax is about, should be about much more than setting up justice system. MJ was announced not guilty of all charges. What else do we need? Justice was done. You mean Michael should not be prosecuted? Wrong. If you think from prosecutor's prospective, that is their job to pursue if they have got complaint, especially from teenager. Michael should not give that opportunity to them. Even if prosecutor would have known the extortion is the ground of accusations. However, prudent person thinks, Michael must sleep with woman or man (if he is gay of course), but not with strange to him children. Yes, we know Michael is innocent and pure, but prosecutor can't say that in response to complaint:"Oh, you know what it's ok, that's Michael, he is pure , harmless man". No, they have to do their job. In other words, Michael should not be that careless, especially that in the past he once already experienced bad people greed.
So, this hoax must be about, I would say for example, to expose corruption in medical and pharmacy system. Or money.......in the first place for everything unfortunately.
Are you saying Tom Sneddon only did his clean and sober prosecuting job, with nothing else in mind!?!Or am I misunderstanding something, possibly not being well-informed.. :oops:
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Haha,sorry amiego,I felt I had to write something to bring everyone's mind back into focus and bring them back from despair.
I agree on keeping this thread clean and detailed,as I said in my previous post,so,continue to post in this one EVERYBODY and I will open another thread now called Summary of Trial-Discussion for the overspill of people wanting to discuss in depth.
Sound like a plan?
Souza can make the other thread a global thread too if she wishes so the 2 remain together and people can find them both easily.
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Haha,sorry amiego,I felt I had to write something to bring everyone's mind back into focus and bring them back from despair.
I agree on keeping this thread clean and detailed,as I said in my previous post,so,continue to post in this one EVERYBODY and I will open another thread now called Summary of Trial-Discussion for the overspill of people wanting to discuss in depth.
Sound like a plan?
Souza can make the other thread a global thread too if she wishes so the 2 remain together and people can find them both easily.
Why is the prelim going to be 3 weeks and not 2 weeks? It's only been two days and almost can't keep up with all the contradicting testimonies.
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which makes my head hurt to think, our system is trying to convict a man of killing another man that is not dead. And MJ is going to expose it.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
Disagree. This hoax is about, should be about much more than setting up justice system. MJ was announced not guilty of all charges. What else do we need? Justice was done. You mean Michael should not be prosecuted? Wrong. If you think from prosecutor's prospective, that is their job to pursue if they have got complaint, especially from teenager. Michael should not give that opportunity to them. Even if prosecutor would have known the extortion is the ground of accusations. However, prudent person thinks, Michael must sleep with woman or man (if he is gay of course), but not with strange to him children. Yes, we know Michael is innocent and pure, but prosecutor can't say that in response to complaint:"Oh, you know what it's ok, that's Michael, he is pure , harmless man". No, they have to do their job. In other words, Michael should not be that careless, especially that in the past he once already experienced bad people greed.
So, this hoax must be about, I would say for example, to expose corruption in medical and pharmacy system. Or money.......in the first place for everything unfortunately.
I dont agree with you scorpionchick.. They wanted distroy michael jackson. it was all an act against him. nothing was fair in that case.. ..
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Done.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=17067
@MJhasspoken
The hearing is expected to last at least three weeks. Then, it will be up to Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor to determine if there is enough evidence for Murray to stand trial.
I don't think it will become clear or official how long it will last until next week I was just saying it is very early days if this turns out to be the case and to expect it incase it does go past the predicted 2weeks.
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I renamed this thread "Official General Prelim Discussion thread" so everything anyone wants to discuss about the prelim, can do so in here.
Sinderella, please open a new thread and copy your info there. If you send me the link I will make it a global and lock it. If you have an update, you send me and I can edit your post. In that way the update thread stays clean and clear and people will still be able to discuss, curse, cry or whatever in here.
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Won't the bodyguard get into trouble as well since he took items from Michael's room, it seems like he in it as much as CM...by the way KF really ticks you off doesn't she? :lol:
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I renamed this thread "Official General Prelim Discussion thread" so everything anyone wants to discuss about the prelim, can do so in here.
Sinderella, please open a new thread and copy your info there. If you send me the link I will make it a global and lock it. If you have an update, you send me and I can edit your post. In that way the update thread stays clean and clear and people will still be able to discuss, curse, cry or whatever in here.
Yeah that is totally fine Souza,I am just sorting the stuff from yesterday out and then I will PM it to you for the locked one.
With that,carry on everyone 8-)
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Are we supposed to discuss the prelim on here or the other thread you put up?
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Stay on here,the other thread is being locked and kept as info only,which will be updated as and when.
sorry for the confusion,it worked out to be a better plan the other way around though since there are already 7pages of this one
So chat away :) x
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Stay on here,the other thread is being locked and kept as info only,which will be updated as and when.
sorry for the confusion,it worked out to be a better plan the other way around though since there are already 7pages of this one
So chat away :) x
Thanks, that's a good idea, I wrote something on the other thread so @Souza you can delete it thanks.
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real
How can it not be real?!?!?!??!? It is real.... and this is scary enough!!!!!
The trial is not a movie :cry: :cry: :cry:
The judge is not an actor.
Those lawyers are real lawyers.
So it has to be real :cry:
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real
How can it not be real?!?!?!??!? It is real.... and this is scary enough!!!!!
The trial is not a movie :cry: :cry: :cry:
The judge is not an actor.
Those lawyers are real lawyers.
So it has to be real :cry:
Was Elvis' trial real?
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I think this is the part where the movie is getting exciting.
THIS IS A FUC*ING MOVIE, GUYS: NO REASON TO STOP beLIEving!!!!!!!!
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This is a movie but the trial could be real regardless right?
By the way I totally reserve the first ticket for the movie when it comes out in cinemas.
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If you tell a lie, always rehearse it. If it don't sound good to you, it won't sound good to anybody.
~Leroy "Satchel" Paige
{Just thought this would help some of you.}
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This is a movie but the trial could be real regardless right?
By the way I totally reserve the first ticket for the movie when it comes out in cinemas.
me too :mrgreen:
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which makes my head hurt to think, our system is trying to convict a man of killing another man that is not dead. And MJ is going to expose it.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
Disagree. This hoax is about, should be about much more than setting up justice system. MJ was announced not guilty of all charges. What else do we need? Justice was done. You mean Michael should not be prosecuted? Wrong. If you think from prosecutor's prospective, that is their job to pursue if they have got complaint, especially from teenager. Michael should not give that opportunity to them. Even if prosecutor would have known the extortion is the ground of accusations. However, prudent person thinks, Michael must sleep with woman or man (if he is gay of course), but not with strange to him children. Yes, we know Michael is innocent and pure, but prosecutor can't say that in response to complaint:"Oh, you know what it's ok, that's Michael, he is pure , harmless man". No, they have to do their job. In other words, Michael should not be that careless, especially that in the past he once already experienced bad people greed.
So, this hoax must be about, I would say for example, to expose corruption in medical and pharmacy system. Or money.......in the first place for everything unfortunately.
I dont agree with you scorpionchick.. They wanted distroy michael jackson. it was all an act against him. nothing was fair in that case.. ..
That is what I meant to say: prosecutor Tom Sneddon..Michael talking about a conspiracy against him,nothing clean, nothing sober, nothing according to the once set up rules
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This is a movie but the trial could be real regardless right?
By the way I totally reserve the first ticket for the movie when it comes out in cinemas.
me too :mrgreen:
lol
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:roll: so many different versions
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which makes my head hurt to think, our system is trying to convict a man of killing another man that is not dead. And MJ is going to expose it.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
Though I respectfully disagree with your premise, I do agree, and assure you this is the real deal.
I disagree because pointedly there are a multitude of individuals, and groups (regionally, nationally and internationally), who are bringing attention to lack of balance and absence of equality in our judicial system (The Innocence Project, Amnesty International, etc.), and these folks are making huge gains with regards to seeing innocent people set free.
As far as Murray is concerned, he was a 'nobody' before his involvement with Michael and AEG. He was non-remarkable, even in his respective field of cardiology. He only became an every other household name because of Michael's supposed death.
I would offer if the hoax is real, because these proceedings are very real, as are the people involved, and if Michael is indeed alive, Murray is simply the key that will unlock the treasure box of a plethora of corruption within certain global corporations.
Some of the possible illegal activities could include, organized crime, racketeering, money laundering, murder and/or conspiracy...the list goes on and on, yet knowledge any one of these, or a combination of such, would present a perfect opportunity and a perfect witness (Michael) for the state and federal Attorneys General.
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Why does this guy only get 4 years max if convicted for murdering the most famous and talented person in the world drug addict or not? Just a question?
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Why does this guy only get 4 years max if convicted for murdering the most famous and talented person in the world drug addict or not? Just a question?
Because he wasn't charged with murder, he can't be convicted of murder. The penalties for involuntary manslaughter are less severe than those for murder.
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Unless we actually have the court transcripts of each of the preliminary hearings to voice our opinions, we need to take the information we do take with caution. We are getting this information from the press through various sources. Again a story can be told in three different ways with the same information. Be viligant and keep the faith :)
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Why does this guy only get 4 years max if convicted for murdering the most famous and talented person in the world drug addict or not? Just a question?
Because "we only have 4 years" :lol:
@Souza : thanks for new organisation of the threads ;)
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Day 2 notes are up everyone,I will try and be faster with today's but due to factors I cannot change,it is not easy to get them up immidiatley after the day ends so I will do the best I can,also if anyone else is making notes and would like them included in the summary then please feel free to PM me and if there is anything that is not already down I will add and credit you =]
I will warn you it is hard to read and stay calm,awful things are being said and coming to light which will only get worse/more graphic,confuse you and make you feel like all hope it gone.PLEASE remember there is a long way to go with this...the past 18months DID happen,all the belief you had is still needed,the evidence is still valid and very real.
What to do?suck it up,flip your hair back and forth,drink some tea...or vodka...whichever is most likely to help you lol and give Michael what he needs,support,strength,belief and love.
If in doubt.....go and watch DaveDave on LK,the funerals/memorials and all the other evidence that has kept you here for so long.
Those children did not witness that 7days before the staples memorial,you only have to look at prince to see the utter boredom of having to go through it...that is not a face of sadness or facing the fact his father is dead in a box infront of him...it's a face of I wonder how long this will go on for...what do I need to pack for Hawaii...
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Can someone give me the linke of the mjjustice stream, pls?????
Furthermore I would like to ask you when court has started today?
Thank you.
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Court was set to start at 00.15pm today I believe and here is the ustream link
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/conrad-murray-back-in-court
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This is such a headache haha. So many different versions of the same story, it's ridiculous yet genius at the same time. I feel like the court case may be real for one reason or another, I guess we will just have to observe and see how the next few days play out. I feel like we are all in for the shock of our lives by the time this thing is over!
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Day 2 notes are up everyone,I will try and be faster with today's but due to factors I cannot change,it is not easy to get them up immidiatley after the day ends so I will do the best I can,also if anyone else is making notes and would like them included in the summary then please feel free to PM me and if there is anything that is not already down I will add and credit you =]
Can you tell me where you are posting your "court notes">? Thanks.
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Sure,it is the locked global topic at the top of every section of the forum.
Started off as a thread for discussion but changed to just being for notes and info so it is easy to read without other posts inbetween.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17067
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Judge Michael Pastor - Isn't it funny how many people connected to MJ are actually called Michael too.
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Sinderella, many thanks for putting together the daily court summaries. Can I just ask you where you're getting the notes from each day's court proceedings? You say it's not from the media, so are you in court or is the court releasing them? (Loving the locked thread by the way, so much easier to have the info uncluttered with comments!)
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As Mj spent days listening to BS about him, we will be hearing all this BS before da troot comes to light ! of course some things are not easy to hear. That's part of what a trial is. But we have to keep our faith and remember all that made us stay here since so long.
Stay strong !
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Yes I was wondering that myself if Sin is attending court everyday to get these notes....lucky her if she is. Otherwise, we have to rely on third party sources and media to find out any information.
In addition, why would they allow the public to attend such a "high profile hearing" because all the evidence and testimony and so on would be tainted by media coverage. I suppose instead of going after Sneddon for lying and providing false information in MJ's case in 2005, MJ has decided to expose all the liars in the D.A.'s office in Santa Barbara County. I honestly think we should be looking at the D.A.'s office in Santa Barbara County - I think there is something evil and corrupt going on there. JMO
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Yes I was wondering that myself if Sin is attending court everyday to get these notes....lucky her if she is. Otherwise, we have to rely on third party sources and media to find out any information.
In addition, why would they allow the public to attend such a "high profile hearing" because all the evidence and testimony and so on would be tainted by media coverage. I suppose instead of going after Sneddon for lying and providing false information in MJ's case in 2005, MJ has decided to expose all the liars in the D.A.'s office in Santa Barbara County. I honestly think we should be looking at the D.A.'s office in Santa Barbara County - I think there is something evil and corrupt going on there. JMO
I think she said that she was collecting the info from the forum right here.
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I looked up "preliminary hearing" online and found out that a preliminary hearing is to find out whether there is enough probable cause to pursue sentencing. According to my understanding of what I've read so far, Dr. Murray is not necessarily defintely guilty of harming or killing Michael. Michael is still alive. Also, from my previous employment by a lawyer and my own appearances in court, I know that both Plaintiff and Defendant haev up to 120 days to pursue and provide evidence to prove what they are trying to prove. This means that there could be another hearing on or before May 4, 2011. Also, the behavior exhibited by Prince and Paris outside of the courtroom may have just been a part of the act. Of course, the children may also have been upset at having to be used by Dr. Murray to prove his innocence. I will say more later when I have more time. I hope this helps.
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@Anyone who wants to know
No,I am not in court,I can't be there unfortunatley the summary for each day is a combination of notes from someone I know who is inside every day,my own notes and so on.
I would not put false,media speculated rubbish up.
@curls You're very welcome
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I'm starting to think that this trial is real and MJ really is setting up the entire justice system and this is exactly what TS was saying about Prince not having to testify and lie under oath.
Which means this really is how bad it is. They will ruin an innocent man's life over rumor and speculation. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what they did to MJ.
Disagree. This hoax is about, should be about much more than setting up justice system. MJ was announced not guilty of all charges. What else do we need? Justice was done. You mean Michael should not be prosecuted? Wrong. If you think from prosecutor's prospective, that is their job to pursue if they have got complaint, especially from teenager. Michael should not give that opportunity to them. Even if prosecutor would have known the extortion is the ground of accusations. However, prudent person thinks, Michael must sleep with woman or man (if he is gay of course), but not with strange to him children. Yes, we know Michael is innocent and pure, but prosecutor can't say that in response to complaint:"Oh, you know what it's ok, that's Michael, he is pure , harmless man". No, they have to do their job. In other words, Michael should not be that careless, especially that in the past he once already experienced bad people greed.
So, this hoax must be about, I would say for example, to expose corruption in medical and pharmacy system. Or money.......in the first place for everything unfortunately.
I dont agree with you scorpionchick.. They wanted distroy michael jackson. it was all an act against him. nothing was fair in that case.. ..
I did not say it was fair or not. I said it is prosecutor job to prosecute, pursue complaint. Did prosecutor sent that woman and her 2 sons to Michael's house? No. MJ picked them to help on his own. Michael should be very careful, not that naive. People don't understand purity, majority are dirty minded.I love MJ very much.But the truth is the truth.We have to be objective. MJ said once :"If society does not accept innocent relationship (meaning he sleeps in the same room with young boys innocently), that's society problem, not mine". I think living in society it can not be completely ignored.Especially in the legal system as in here, people looking for who to sue to get money.
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I looked up "preliminary hearing" online and found out that a preliminary hearing is to find out whether there is enough probable cause to pursue sentencing. According to my understanding of what I've read so far, Dr. Murray is not necessarily defintely guilty of harming or killing Michael. Michael is still alive. Also, from my previous employment by a lawyer and my own appearances in court, I know that both Plaintiff and Defendant haev up to 120 days to pursue and provide evidence to prove what they are trying to prove. This means that there could be another hearing on or before May 4, 2011. Also, the behavior exhibited by Prince and Paris outside of the courtroom may have just been a part of the act. Of course, the children may also have been upset at having to be used by Dr. Murray to prove his innocence. I will say more later when I have more time. I hope this helps.
Plaintiff and Defendant are in civil cases, not criminal. The time to respond is differ from case to case.
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GINAFELICIA wrote:
bec wrote:
I'm starting to think that this trial is real
How can it not be real?!?!?!??!? It is real.... and this is scary enough!!!!!
The trial is not a movie
The judge is not an actor.
Those lawyers are real lawyers.
So it has to be real
And all we've seen is not "real", :?: the memorial, burial, the autopsy report .. I saw many people on the day of burial began to lose faith, it is all too real for the world that Michael Jackson died on June 25, 2009 at the hands of your doctor, there must be a legal proceeding "real", all I had to come
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Thanks Sinderella for posting this and further summaries for us to examine. If we are firmly convinced Michael is alive by the many proofs we have found this 18 months, then we can enjoy the show as perfected art at its finest. MJ is a master and as usual has hired the best to work with him. A good movie leaves you glued to the end, not able to guess how it will go. Besides art he is showing the failure of the justice sytem for so many (he included in 2005), and human nature in judging before the evidence is in. I believe this case will be unprecidented, and even when MJ BAMS I don't think he would be arrested like everyone believes. I believe everything has been taken care of. I've never been so not afraid in my whole life. Let's love and support MJ and each other throughout this adventure!
I agree and let me just say this is the best live interactive movie/performance art I have ever been witness to. Not only is this like a good who dun it novel; it is almost better than true crimes which I love.
This is a global lesson and the scary thing right now while watching this unfold is how dumbed down society truly is. This event going on called The Hoax of Michael Jackson's death and the Dr. who didn't know CPR: lol... is so ludicris that when I lurk over at the Ustream and the non-believers who just mimick and repeat what the media says, that is scary. :shock:
It just says to me that if Michael Jackson has fooled almost a good majority of people; think about how easy the NWO aka TPTB have been fooling us for years. I read where some people were concerned with this being illegal and I will say that this happens everyday right under our noses for real. This is real and fake at the same time. Anything can be bought for the right price. This is performance art being documented. Everything is gonna be aight! ;)
The non-believers believe the lies being told by the media and they are just repeating it to others who take their word as truth; then they spread the info via the web and next thing it is:
BREAKING NEWS!
Faking Breaking the News is exactly what is happening. The fact that many here in this forum start to doubt is troubling also. This is no time to go soft. It is actually hilarious when you know the details of it being a hoax. Relax and enjoy the show.
That is exactly what this is The Greatest Show on Earth.
Looks like they are going to blame the fans and paps, lol
Keep Watching![/b]
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am
A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital.
“It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,” recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009.
The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter. Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so. He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.
Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.
Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
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The judge doesn´t seem to be interested in the case says a member of justice for mj group who went into the courtroom.
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I'm pretty new here, what is or how do you find the closed thread on this subject?
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I'm pretty new here, what is or how do you find the closed thread on this subject?
Here it is and welcome to the padded cell! :lol: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17067 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17067)
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Currently going through all calls that Murray made from multiple cell phones to multiple numbers..some only lasting 7seconds,one in the ambulance..apparently.
Also,the fact one came from the Beverley Hills hotel has not come up in questioning.
Up to now he has called 26ppl on these cell phones since 6am June 25th and not one of those was 911
Maybe LAX private runway and check in just wouldn't pick up......hahaha.
Day 3's summary is going to have a lot of BS-just pre warning you now.
For example,the way it's coming out,Murray had time to run around and hide most of Michael's room/life/posessions into bags and the paramedics claim to have seen him doing so,from the ground floor....er..ok?
and then at the hospital remembered that after all that bagging shit up...he'd left that one tube of cream no one was supposed to see out on the side GOD DAMN IT lol....seriously...this is so comical.
Nothing has been said as to why the ambulance reveresed with no sirens on,let a tour bus move at it's own pace,when Carolwood has a donut shaped driveway,surely for emergency life and death situations sirens go on first,foot down..and YOU DRIVE FORWARDS AND GO OUT FRONT FIRST.
For the love of popcorn.....I am glad I can't make it to court,i'd be shouting things out and end up in a cell.
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Currently going through all calls that Murray made from multiple cell phones to multiple numbers..some only lasting 7seconds,one in the ambulance..apparently.
Also,the fact one came from the Beverley Hills hotel has not come up in questioning.
Up to now he has called 26ppl on these cell phones since 6am June 25th and not one of those was 911
Maybe LAX private runway and check in just wouldn't pick up......hahaha.
Day 3's summary is going to have a lot of BS-just pre warning you now.
For example,the way it's coming out,Murray had time to run around and hide most of Michael's room/life/posessions into bags and the paramedics claim to have seen him doing so,from the ground floor....er..ok?
and then at the hospital remembered that after all that bagging shit up...he'd left that one tube of cream no one was supposed to see out on the side GOD DAMN IT lol....seriously...this is so comical.
Nothing has been said as to why the ambulance reveresed with no sirens on,let a tour bus move at it's own pace,when Carolwood has a donut shaped driveway,surely for emergency life and death situations sirens go on first,foot down..and YOU DRIVE FORWARDS AND GO OUT FRONT FIRST.
For the love of popcorn.....I am glad I can't make it to court,i'd be shouting things out and end up in a cell.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Some light reading material
Lets see what the unholy media have to report at this point in time....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-conrad-murray-texted.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/01/entertainment/main5355989.shtml
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wasnt it stated some time ago that conrad murray didnt have a smart phone when all the twitter thing blew up they said it was not his account as he did not have a smart phone and now they are saying one of them was an iphone thats a smart phone isnt it
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I'm confused how to follow this thread. What is locked?
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I'm confused how to follow this thread. What is locked?
The summary of what is being said in court daily is in the locked thread to keep it free from other comments,and so it is easy to read.
The discussion on the prelim/trial is in this thread x
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wasnt it stated some time ago that conrad murray didnt have a smart phone when all the twitter thing blew up they said it was not his account as he did not have a smart phone and now they are saying one of them was an iphone thats a smart phone isnt it
I thought they even said that Murray didn't have a cell AT ALL, and that that was the reason why it lasted that long before he could call 911... :lol:
What a mess, what a mess. That's a lotta bricks every day, and this is only day 3. How much longer until people will finally WAKE THE FUCK UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE?
Excuse my french...
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APOLOGIES
The 2nd link I gave from CBS then was the wrong one.That was from 2009 and something I was looking at/reading to refresh my mind before this part of the prelim starts
Just correcting myself before someone points it out
Also,at the time,was there not a story that Murray did find someone with a cell,was put on the phone and didn't know the address of where he was.......
I think a GOOD refresh of memory is in order for everyone,no matter what side they are on,who they are-in the know or not...wayyyy too much information is slipping through the net that made this whole hoax so obvious.That to me is why people are worrying and stressing out because the evidence that made them believe to start with or helped sway them over to this side is being ignored.
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I think they have just said it will go too trial
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No cell phone and he supposedly didn't know the address. I've always wondered, if he didn't know the address, how did he ever find the house the first time he went there?
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the doctor from UCLA is on the stand testifying ow. It is being reported that even the reporters are gasping.
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the doctor from UCLA is on the stand testifying ow. It is being reported that even the reporters are gasping.
:(
the doctor is testifying this means he´s dead
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the doctor from UCLA is on the stand testifying ow. It is being reported that even the reporters are gasping.
Interesting. I wonder what is being said...
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How can a prelim trial that was expected to last 2/3 weeks yesterday,have decided it is going to a full trial today...??
That is impossible.
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How can a prelim trial that was expected to last 2/3 weeks yesterday,have decided it is going to a full trial today...??
That is impossible.
Who said that? :?
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Dr. Richelle Cooper, the attending at UCLA, is testifying now. No details yet.
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To put this in perspective for people
A few mins ago,Murray hadn't seen anything happen to Michael,he had wandered in and 'found' him like he was....half naked,cold,not breathing sprawled out on the bed,open eyes,mouth,going blue,crossing over...etc.
He didn't know resuss,he tried..with one hand..he didn't know basic CPR he didn't tell anyone he had used propofol(prop fool)on him,he said he was just 'dehydrated' and didn't know what had happened...had waited AT LEAST 20mins to get someone to call 911
when the paramedics arrived Michael was for want of a better word...dead.Dialated dry eyes,cold,blue hands and feet and flatlining on a heart trace machine=dead.
They had him in the ambulance...dead...not breathing not responding to drugs to restart his heart,still no one knew the full story.
It has now just emerged from a UCLA Dr that Murray told them to keep trying..after about 2hours this is now..of no heartbeart,no oxygen to his brain which would make him brain dead by now anyway regardless of whether he was revived or not...and he said
to the doctor he WITNESSED Michaels cardiac arrest and saw him take his last breath.
In the mean time he was running around with bags packing Michael's private life up phoning 26 people from 2cell phones and whatever else is about to come to light...
ALSO this Dr was not seen on the day,would not sign anything and did not go outside and tell the world MJ was no more....he let Jermaine do it.
How professional.
How can anyone take this seriously?
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Here is the family arriving in and out of court
[youtube:12x0sidw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxXx5HaQxfk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:12x0sidw]
Paparazzi you didn't learn. You will after this is over!
[youtube:12x0sidw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRV_zpRiyqc[/youtube:12x0sidw]
[youtube:12x0sidw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtgqiJnXRKg&feature=related[/youtube:12x0sidw]
[youtube:12x0sidw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paMQXQzsJbc&feature=related[/youtube:12x0sidw]
[youtube:12x0sidw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L33VBSPsUE&feature=related[/youtube:12x0sidw]
So many illusions started way before June 25 2009. Contradictions, speculations, lies, half truths, he said she said... Controversy!
There was a conspiracy to take down Michael Jackson. In 1993 or before people accused him of dirty things and lied on his good name. These lies were part of the reason an investigation started on Michael. The lies told by these people almost sent him to court but he had to make a choice and settle against his better judgement. It was business then. Not a guilty conscious. These lies were lies. 2005 accusations aka lies did go to court. A full trial happened because of lies and a conspiracy to take Michael down.
Michael isn't doing anything different than they did.
Pay Back is a bitch. I am glad to see this whoop ass on the media and judicial system.This is a huge slap in the face. This is how corrupt the system is. Michael is shining a huge light on the fraud. Innocent men and women get found guilty everyday. Huge FBI trials and witness protection; Mob type things do happen. 8-)
Artist use lies to tell the truth.
This is a double edged sword. On one hand we need the media for communication. On the other hand they lie like dogs.
Where is the justice at the end of the day? Will the media learn the lesson to respect artists as human beings when they are on their off time?
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To put this in perspective for people
A few mins ago,Murray hadn't seen anything happen to Michael,he had wandered in and 'found' him like he was....half naked,cold,not breathing sprawled out on the bed,open eyes,mouth,going blue,crossing over...etc.
He didn't know resuss,he tried..with one hand..he didn't know basic CPR he didn't tell anyone he had used propofol(prop fool)on him,he said he was just 'dehydrated' and didn't know what had happened...had waited AT LEAST 20mins to get someone to call 911
when the paramedics arrived Michael was for want of a better word...dead.Dialated dry eyes,cold,blue hands and feet and flatlining on a heart trace machine=dead.
They had him in the ambulance...dead...not breathing not responding to drugs to restart his heart,still no one knew the full story.
It has now just emerged from a UCLA Dr that Murray told them to keep trying..after about 2hours this is now..of no heartbeart,no oxygen to his brain which would make him brain dead by now anyway regardless of whether he was revived or not...and he said
to the doctor he WITNESSED Michaels cardiac arrest and saw him take his last breath.
In the mean time he was running around with bags packing Michael's private life up phoning 26 people from 2cell phones and whatever else is about to come to light...
ALSO this Dr was not seen on the day,would not sign anything and did not go outside and tell the world MJ was no more....he let Jermaine do it.
How professional.
How can anyone take this seriously?
Sinderella, did Murray ask Dr as UCLA to keep trying before or after he said he was hungry ;) sorry but .... the story makes any sense :lol: ....
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How can a prelim trial that was expected to last 2/3 weeks yesterday,have decided it is going to a full trial today...??
That is impossible.
Who said that? :?
It was always going to last about 2weeks with the amount of people needing to go on the stand,then yesterday it was said it might be 3,and mumof3 just said in a comment she thinks they just said it will go to full trial
How?when barely anyone has got up to speak yet...it's only day 3
@forst haha....same time!keep trying doc....and order me a subway marinara while your there...extra cheese,Italian wholewheat..no pickle...
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A summary from inside the court 4/1/11
COURT – DAY 1
04/01/11
Judge :- Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor
Prosecutor: Assistant Deputy D.A. David Walgren
Defence: Ed Chernoff
Family attending:-
Katherine Jackson
LaToya Jackson
Jackie Jackson
Witnesses called:-
Kenny Ortega (Producer/Director – This Is It)
Michael Amir( Michael’s Bodyguards)
Faheen Muhammed (Michael’s Bodyguard)
Court convened at 9am.
Reports have Murray as usual been ‘shepharded’ in through the back door and arriving in court looking remarkably relaxed – as he continued to be throughout the whole proceedings.
Fans remained outside behaved in a respectful and dignified manner as the family filed in.
Deputy District Attorney, David Walgren said he will rely on Murray's statements to police, as well as text messages, phone records and expert testimony to show the doctor should stand trial.
He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.
He faulted the doctor in opening statements for performing CPR on Jackson with one hand on his bed, rather than a hard surface as is generally required.
He also stated that “ fabulous" rehearsal two days before his death and was set to go to London in a few days.”
Walgren also plans to call several experts whom he said would testify, "there are a number of actions displayed by Dr. Murray that show an extreme deviation from the standard of care."
The prosecutor also said he would call a bodyguard who would testify that Murray ordered him to collect items from Jackson's bedroom
The first witness the prosecution called was "This Is It" producer/director Kenny Ortega
KENNY ORTEGA
Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson’s home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.
Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.
Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.
"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."
Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.
"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."
I'd say Ortega asked Michael literally: do you choose for the concerts or do you choose for your family? Michael chose for his family and Kenny supports him
The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.
"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse." Here we (public) obviously must be confirmed that Murray is hired by AEG. Ohh :roll: this sounds so much like a theater play
Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.
He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.
"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said. Again a confirmation that Kenny really cares and that he's on the good side and that he knows about the hoax plans
On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.
MICHAEL AMIR WILLIAMS
Another witness, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams, described Murray calling him on the day the superstar died and frantically asking him to get help from bodyguards for Jackson, who was in a bedroom
Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."
Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.
Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up
Williams added that staff were never allowed upstairs.
Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson’s children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.
He went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some ‘cream’ that “Michael wouldn’t want people to see”. Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to ‘lock it down’. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!
FAHEEN MUHAMMED
One of Michael’s other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'" Really, he should know, but it's possible because he is a specialist and not a first aid practising doctor and is not used to do CPR. Still it's weird at the least.
"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said
When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."
Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there,"
Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said. According to Williams statement in the Popeater article: "...that Dr. Conrad Murray stopped CPR on the singer in order to hide vials of Propofol, the powerful sedative." Now, I read nothing about Murray himself trying to hide stuff while practising CPR, during this prelim, or am I wrong?
Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.
Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.
"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.
The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.
The session ended at approx 16.30pm. To be reconvened on 5/1/11 at 09.30am
Travis Payne was also present.
Jackson Bodyguard Fired Because of 'Criminal Past'60 CommentsBy PopEater Staff Posted Mar 30th 2010 05:30PM
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The bodyguard who called 911 the day Michael Jackson died was fired late last week by the singer's family. Now, we know why. A close friend of the Jacksons tells PopEater exclusively that Alberto Alvarez was let go Friday after they discovered he had a criminal record and no longer felt he should be near the family's large brood of children.
Alvarez had worked at the Jackson family compound since the legendary singer's death last June, but recently "there was something off about him."
As the AP first reported, Alvarez told the LAPD two months after Jackson's death that Dr. Conrad Murray stopped CPR on the singer in order to hide vials of Propofol, the powerful sedative. He also claimed Murray instructed him to help pick fallen drug bottles off the floor before medics arrived. Immediately after Jackson's death, Alvarez said nothing of the sort to investigators.
Joe Jackson then confronted Alvarez about his changing story; he was preparing a wrongful death suit against Murray and wanted to know exactly what happened the day his son died. Jackson wanted to know if his initial story was an attempt to cover up crucial evidence to shield Murray.
Irked by his behavior, the family decided to look into Alvarez's background and what they allegedly found was disturbing.
"When he started changing his stories, the estate decided to check him out," the family friend tells us. "He not only had a DUI, there was a domestic violence dispute on his record. Someone had filed a domestic complaint against Alvarez, and he also had a DUI arrest."
Since Alvarez was hired by Michael Jackson and was there during the final moments of his life, the family did not think twice about his background and certainly "didn't know he had a criminal past."
However, they concluded that Alvarez was "not someone the Jackson family would have employed around the Jackson children. The estate had not other choice but to let Alberto Alvarez go."
Joe Jackson is in the process of suing Murray, whom he also believes waited too long to get his son to the hospital.
"I want justice for my son, that's all I want, justice," Jackson told PopEater after news of the lawsuit broke on Monday. "There's a hearing for Dr. Murray in April, and I will be going. Dr. Murray needs to talk, and tell everything he knows. All I want is justice for my son's death."
http://www.popeater.com/2010/03/30/albe ... bodyguard/ (http://www.popeater.com/2010/03/30/alberto-alvarez-fired-michael-jackson-bodyguard/)
]that Dr. Conrad Murray stopped CPR on the singer in order to hide vials of Propofol, the powerful sedative
Jackson wanted to know if his initial story was an attempt to cover up crucial evidence to shield Murray.
"When he started changing his stories, the estate decided to check him out," the family friend tells us. "He not only had a DUI, there was a domestic violence dispute on his record. Someone had filed a domestic complaint against Alvarez, and he also had a DUI arrest."
Hmmm.. IDK if this story is true.. the source is a family friend. It is possible that the prosecution tries to claim that Alvarez is an ureliable and useless witness. However, in the prelim we heard nothing about his record.. so far.
Now more than ever keep the FAITH
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hello there and thank u all! im learning all the news from the trial of MJ, i cant do it on the news overhere cus im from Perú - south america, so im get updated from you :D . Well yeah everybody has already started to feel scared of this..would this mean a definite status for MJ? the death? or is this going to end soon the way we all are expecting? how we expect this to end looks a lil bit hard to happen thats true, but coming from Michael..it becomes possible and real. I read lines above that Michael is just doing a lil bit of what bad people did to him years before..to take him down. Now michael just want all the world to know the truth.. and he wants to open everybody's eyes and make us realize that the press lies!! and we have to believe in what we believe and in what our eyes see and make our own decision!!
oh and i wonder when will TS show up around hea!!
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And this is what I publish TMZ of the calls
Phone Company -- Murray Called Everyone BUT 911Updated 1/06/11 at 2:45pm
Two reps from the phone company testified in the hours surrounding the revelation that Michael Jackson was lifeless in bed, Murray was texting and calling lots of people, but never called 911.
The records show Murray was sending and receiving multiple texts. Two particularly interesting ones at 12:03 and 12:04 PM ... the person Murray was texting was in Texas.
It's unclear if the texts had anything to do with the two women in Murray's office who went to a storage facility to retrieve boxes.
Murray also sent data at 12:15 and 12:18 and another text at 12:53.
Murray also called a number of people, including his girlfriend, Nicole Alvarez, but the only record shows 1:08 PM. This is inconsistent with what law enforcement tells TMZ -- that he was on the phone with Alvarez just after 12 noon and when Murray realized MJ was in distress he dropped the phone.
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How can a prelim trial that was expected to last 2/3 weeks yesterday,have decided it is going to a full trial today...??
That is impossible.
Who said that? :?
It was always going to last about 2weeks with the amount of people needing to go on the stand,then yesterday it was said it might be 3,and mumof3 just said in a comment she thinks they just said it will go to full trial
How?when barely anyone has got up to speak yet...it's only day 3
@forst haha....same time!keep trying doc....and order me a subway marinara while your there...extra cheese,Italian wholewheat..no pickle...
Yeah, I knew about the 2 weeks, but other than the comment in the thread I haven't seen anywhere that this is going to trial... mumof3, where did you get that from?
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yes maybe michael wasnt in the right frame of mind that day kenny sent him home,maybe because michael knew what was coming and what he would be losing by hoaxing his death,also why no mention of the supposed coma story in court or the fact there was no officail announcement from the hospital,and also wasnt it said on the news that murray disappeared afterwards and the police were trying to trace him? but according o the paramedic murray attended the ambulance to ucla so why all the inconsistances?
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I looked up "preliminary hearing" online and found out that a preliminary hearing is to find out whether there is enough probable cause to pursue sentencing.
I guess that means they might pursue a criminal trial.
According to my understanding of what I've read so far, Dr. Murray is not necessarily defintely guilty of harming or killing Michael. Michael is still alive. Also, from my previous employment by a lawyer and my own appearances in court, I know that both Plaintiff and Defendant haev up to 120 days to pursue and provide evidence to prove what they are trying to prove. This means that there could be another hearing on or before May 4, 2011.
I guess I have a lot to learn yet. I only worked as an office clerk and professional plaintiff when I worked for that lawyer. The 120 days will start when the judge determines that there is enough evidence to go to trial or not to go to trial. In that case, it will be up to May 4, 2011; or, up to May 25, 2011.
Also, the behavior exhibited by Prince and Paris outside of the courtroom may have just been a part of the act. Of course, the children may also have been upset at having to be used by Dr. Murray to prove his innocence. I will say more later when I have more time. I hope this helps.
On MichaelJackson.com, I read a thread where it was implied that Paris was on her hands and knees crying outside the courtroom. I was too tired to read this whole thread here on MJHDI last night. Now that I've had a chance to read it, I understand that Paris was supposedly on her hands and knees crying on June 25, 2009. I also read that Dr. Murray was going to try to use Michael's children to testify to an overdependence on medications. That would be devastating to the children, given what Nanny Grace said that got her fired (Nanny Grace claimed [to Paris] that Michael was a drug addict.
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******update
MJ´s medical records in Joe Jackson´s lawsuit,states,the intraaortic ballon pump was inserted at 2.05pm, AFTER they detected heartbeat OUCH-also sort of impossible too??yet Dr. Cooper said she didn´t recognize a heartbeat at the time, but it was written down in the medical records she did...and she signed them anyway.
Also,What happened to no one being in the house
it was packed lmao
The maid,Dr,kids,Alvarez,Kai,security
Table for 7+sec detail
The security tapes that the police downloaded were of the gates and the front entrance of the house ONLY and nothing from inside the home.They are still missing...no one bothered to find out where they went..just like they never asked Murray where he was taking bags of Michael's posessions too...
Pictures have just been shown to the court of his bedroom/scene,no body was pictured in them(go figure) and the markers which showed where the body was found by Murray...ARE ON THE FLOOR NOT THE BED.
I just watched a video of Kai on LKL and i'm sorry...but if Michael Jackson is dying upstairs,y'all dont get in a circle in the den and pray you fucking move your ass up those stairs,ALLOWED or not-rules don't apply when your boss has no heartbeat love...and you do something,anything to help.
LK"did you see them remove the body?"
K"No,they asked us to leave the hall at 1...1.30,security asked us to leave"
Pretty big gap that whole 30mins floating around somewhere
Why was Dr murray running downstairs to talk to prince shouldn't he of been non stop ressus on Michael...I mean ffs man...the king of music is dying on the bed....er...floor...er..bed..no floor!and your running away?
She never heard the 911 call
No one spoke to her and told her he was going to the hospital..so nothing to suggest her boss was gone and she was unemployed?charming...
and then to top it off.....SHE LEFT WORKING THERE IN MAY 2009 what on earth....
why was she back in June?hmmmmmmmmmmm??
never knew that...
Give me strength.
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Dr Murray was supposed to have said to the Dr at UCLA.. that he didnt know the time MJ stopped breathing as he wasnt wearing a watch.
In every photo ive seen of him, he has been wearing a watch.
-
******update
MJ´s medical records in Joe Jackson´s lawsuit,states,the intraaortic ballon pump was inserted at 2.05pm, AFTER they detected heartbeat OUCH-also sort of impossible too??yet Dr. Cooper said she didn´t recognize a heartbeat at the time, but it was written down in the medical records she did...and she signed them anyway.
Also,What happened to no one being in the house
it was packed lmao
The maid,Dr,kids,Alvarez,Kai,security
Table for 7+sec detail
The security tapes that the police downloaded were of the gates and the front entrance of the house ONLY and nothing from inside the home.They are still missing...no one bothered to find out where they went..just like they never asked Murray where he was taking bags of Michael's posessions too...
Pictures have just been shown to the court of his bedroom/scene,no body was pictured in them(go figure) and the markers which showed where the body was found by Murray...ARE ON THE FLOOR NOT THE BED.
I just watched a video of Kai on LKL and i'm sorry...but if Michael Jackson is dying upstairs,y'all dont get in a circle in the den and pray you fucking move your ass up those stairs,ALLOWED or not-rules don't apply when your boss has no heartbeat love...and you do something,anything to help.
LK"did you see them remove the body?"
K"No,they asked us to leave the hall at 1...1.30,security asked us to leave"
Pretty big gap that whole 30mins floating around somewhere
Why was Dr murray running downstairs to talk to prince shouldn't he of been non stop ressus on Michael...I mean ffs man...the king of music is dying on the bed....er...floor...er..bed..no floor!and your running away?
She never heard the 911 call
No one spoke to her and told her he was going to the hospital..so nothing to suggest her boss was gone and she was unemployed?charming...
and then to top it off.....SHE LEFT WORKING THERE IN MAY 2009 what on earth....
why was she back in June?hmmmmmmmmmmm??
never knew that...
Give me strength.
Whatta mess. It's like Cluedo. Who did it? (Mike or Conny) Where? (Bed or floor) With what? (Propofol or Lorazepam).
(http://www.usernetsite.com/humor/cat-did-it-09080921275674/funny-dog-pictures-mess-cat-did-it.jpg)
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Cooper:If a one time dose of propofol is admind,I would not expect (an hour later) the propofol would have any effect.
Cooper: If you’re not giving continual medication, then the meds would clear within 10 to 20 minutes.
She asked Murray when he found the patient not breathing/time he called 911. He didn't know - No watch yet in every pic of him since,even jogging on the beach,dude has a watch on...and if he forgot to put it on that day,DUDE HAD TWO CELL PHONES that both had the time on...come on murray mint,you can do better than that.
.
Propofol was chosen for very good reasons and was actually a very clever idea.
There have only ever been 2cases of death via propofol and both were due to self admin and up to 100x a day=permanant coma.Dr Klien told the world Michael was needlephobic and there is just no way he would do that to himself and as you can see...it doesn't last very long....and cannot kill you unless you are recieving huge doses of it on a regular basis.
Prop fool.
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Paramedics said that they had to wait in the ambulance for Dr Murray whilst he was walking around mJs room.
Murray made a call to his girlfriend whilst he was in the ambulance.
Dr Murray asked the paramedics to cover MJs face with a towel because of the paps around the ambulance.. paramedics thought this was a reasonable request.
Many calls and texts were sent from Murrays phone during the time he was supposed to be doing CPR.
GODDAM!
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I was looking online for information on perjury; it's consequences, examples when it's applied, etc. California treats perjury (i.e. Willingly Lying under oath, in police testimony, etc) as a Felony. This got me worried; now that the trial has started, people WILL be forced to lie under oath to cover for him. Would he risk putting every person close to him of getting charged with a felony?
Even worse, I found this:
Subornation of Perjury Under California Penal Code 127 PC
California law recognizes another type of perjury -- subornation of perjury under Penal Code 127 PC. If you willfully convince or persuade someone else to commit perjury.and they do, in fact, commit perjury.you may be convicted of this offense.
Basically, this means that if Michael DOES come forward, he could be charged with a felony on top of anyone else who lied to protect him.
And what happens if they ARE convicted of perjury?
Penalties, Punishment, and Sentencing for Perjury in California
Perjury under Penal Code 118 PC is a felony. If convicted, you face two, three, or four years in the California State Prison. Depending on the circumstances, you may additionally be sentenced to
* formal probation,
* fines,
* restitution (especially if the conduct involved providing false information in connection with an application for welfare aid -- also known as "welfare fraud"), and
* community service or labor.
This is a serious issue guys, and it needs to be discussed. We can only avoid harsh realities like this for so long...
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It isn't being avoided ,it's just there is a lot going on atm without bringing in heavy legal issues which will worry people more.
I wrote such a long post out then but I don't think now is the time,im trying to keep this light hearted,factual,non depressive and keep people positive.I think the time to look at consequences will come soon enough
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I think that right know we should just look at the prelim...this might not even go to trial.
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Is this true??
(im not sure if i believe this MJHOAX person as she has lied on twitter before.. she is the one who started the false rumours about there being pictures of MJ on the floor... silly woman)
http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE (http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE)
# Yet Alvarez testified that Dr. Murray and Him had moved MJ to the floor upon calling 911 so whcih is it?? about 24 hours ago via txt
Paramedica testified when they arrived to MJ house on Carolwood MJ was on the bed about 24 hours ago via txt
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******update
MJ´s medical records in Joe Jackson´s lawsuit,states,the intraaortic ballon pump was inserted at 2.05pm, AFTER they detected heartbeat OUCH-also sort of impossible too??yet Dr. Cooper said she didn´t recognize a heartbeat at the time, but it was written down in the medical records she did...and she signed them anyway.
Also,What happened to no one being in the house
it was packed lmao
The maid,Dr,kids,Alvarez,Kai,security
Table for 7+sec detail
The security tapes that the police downloaded were of the gates and the front entrance of the house ONLY and nothing from inside the home.They are still missing...no one bothered to find out where they went..just like they never asked Murray where he was taking bags of Michael's posessions too...
Pictures have just been shown to the court of his bedroom/scene,no body was pictured in them(go figure) and the markers which showed where the body was found by Murray...ARE ON THE FLOOR NOT THE BED.
I just watched a video of Kai on LKL and i'm sorry...but if Michael Jackson is dying upstairs,y'all dont get in a circle in the den and pray you fucking move your ass up those stairs,ALLOWED or not-rules don't apply when your boss has no heartbeat love...and you do something,anything to help.
LK"did you see them remove the body?"
K"No,they asked us to leave the hall at 1...1.30,security asked us to leave"
Pretty big gap that whole 30mins floating around somewhere
Why was Dr murray running downstairs to talk to prince shouldn't he of been non stop ressus on Michael...I mean ffs man...the king of music is dying on the bed....er...floor...er..bed..no floor!and your running away?
She never heard the 911 call
No one spoke to her and told her he was going to the hospital..so nothing to suggest her boss was gone and she was unemployed?charming...
and then to top it off.....SHE LEFT WORKING THERE IN MAY 2009 what on earth....
why was she back in June?hmmmmmmmmmmm??
never knew that...
Give me strength.
Whatta mess. It's like Cluedo. Who did it? (Mike or Conny) Where? (Bed or floor) With what? (Propofol or Lorazepam).
(http://www.usernetsite.com/humor/cat-did-it-09080921275674/funny-dog-pictures-mess-cat-did-it.jpg)
Oh my, I've come home to the scene in that photograph before. The only difference is that I don't have a cat so they tried to blame the turtle!
-
I was looking online for information on perjury; it's consequences, examples when it's applied, etc. California treats perjury (i.e. Willingly Lying under oath, in police testimony, etc) as a Felony. This got me worried; now that the trial has started, people WILL be forced to lie under oath to cover for him. Would he risk putting every person close to him of getting charged with a felony?
Even worse, I found this:
Subornation of Perjury Under California Penal Code 127 PC
California law recognizes another type of perjury -- subornation of perjury under Penal Code 127 PC. If you willfully convince or persuade someone else to commit perjury.and they do, in fact, commit perjury.you may be convicted of this offense.
Basically, this means that if Michael DOES come forward, he could be charged with a felony on top of anyone else who lied to protect him.
And what happens if they ARE convicted of perjury?
Penalties, Punishment, and Sentencing for Perjury in California
Perjury under Penal Code 118 PC is a felony. If convicted, you face two, three, or four years in the California State Prison. Depending on the circumstances, you may additionally be sentenced to
* formal probation,
* fines,
* restitution (especially if the conduct involved providing false information in connection with an application for welfare aid -- also known as "welfare fraud"), and
* community service or labor.
This is a serious issue guys, and it needs to be discussed. We can only avoid harsh realities like this for so long...
If there really was another body transported to the hospital, all of these people could be telling the truth. Maybe the person really was a hospice patient, who Michael knew and offered to take care of their passing, burial, etc.
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Is this true??
(im not sure if i believe this MJHOAX person as she has lied on twitter before.. she is the one who started the false rumours about there being pictures of MJ on the floor... silly woman)
http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE (http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE)
# Yet Alvarez testified that Dr. Murray and Him had moved MJ to the floor upon calling 911 so whcih is it?? about 24 hours ago via txt
Paramedica testified when they arrived to MJ house on Carolwood MJ was on the bed about 24 hours ago via txt
GUYS.. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
WAS MICHAEL ON THE BED OR ON THE FLOOR??????
On Friday 7th January 2011, @Mjfaithful said:
PLEASE READ, RETWEET AND SHARE. UPDATE FROM MORNING COURT SESSION VIA @Taaj2001. Paramedics Richard Seneff and Martin Blount testified this morning. Seneff was first to testify and the first Paramedic to enter the premises with Blount in tow with equipment. Upon arriving on the scene Michael was lying in his bed, they lifted him off the bed onto the floor next to the bed and then quickly moved Michael to the floor at the foot of the bed to provide for more room. Seneff upon examination said Michael pupils were fixed and dialated and from his experience Micheal had been gone for a long time. He Estimated the time to be anywhere from 20 minutes to 1 hour. Paramedics asked Murray what drugs he had given Michael when Seneff saw 3 bottles of Lidocane on the floor and Murray stated nothing. Upon hooking Michael up to the monitor there was no activity, Michael was flat lined with no pulse. Dr Murray told Seneff he was getting a pulse in Michael groin area (Femaral artery) Seneff felt the same spot and felt no pulse. When Blount, the 2nd Paramedic testified a lot of technical information was given, he stated it was very hard to find a vein on Michael.When the defense questioned Blount he was asked if it is common to not be able to find a vein on drug addicts, Blount testified that he's worked on heroin addicts and been able to find veins without problems. Blount also testified that typically you can not find a vein on a person who is dead or has no blood circulation.
The next witness was a AT&T phone Records Manager. The Prosecution at this point in time showed Murray's phone records. Murray's phone was set for automatic push data for every hour from the hours of Midnight to Six am. The next witness was a Sprint area Retail Manager. Murray's phone was capable of text messaging, emailing and internet access. At this time phone activity was discussed in great detail. at 6:31am Murray sent or received a text, at 7:03am sent or received a text, at 7:29am sent or received a text, AT 8:14am sent or received a text, at 8:26am sent or received a text, at 8:54am sent or received a text, at 9:00am sent or received a text, at 9:11am sent or received a text, at 9:35am sent or received a text, at 10:04am sent or received a text, at 10:25am sent or received a text, at 10:44am sent or received a text, at 11:08am sent or received a text, at 12:03pm and 12:04pm sent or received a text to Texas, at 12:13pm sent or received a text, at 12:18pm sent or received a text, at 12:52pm sent or received a text to California, at 1:23pm sent or received a text to Nevada, at 2:19pm sent or received a text, at 2:55pm sent or received a text, at 3:20pm sent or received a text, at 3:30pm sent or received a text, at 3:38pm sent or received a text, at 4:03pm Sent or received a text. The witness was then asked if there was any way of finding out the contexts of the texts and the witness testified yes there is. Then any calls that were made was addressed:
Outgoing calls that Murray made are as follows:
9:23am lasted 22 minutes, call made to Vegas.
10:14am lasted 2 minutes, call to a 714 area code.
11:07am lasted 1 minute, call to a 614 area code.
11:18am lasted 32 minutes, call made to Vegas.
11:49am lasted 3 minutes, call to area code unknown.
11:51am call lasted 11 minutes,call to area code 321.
12:12pm call lasted 1 minute, call to area code 562
After this testimony the Defense asked the witness " "Why did you get this job" and the Judge quickly said "What kind of question is that" then the Defense said " Withdrawn". This information was all received over the phone from Taaj who was in court all day!
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Why would the defense ask a phone records manager why he got this job?
What am I missing?
Somebody is lying about where Michael was. We know he was on the bed when the 911 call was made. We heard Alvarez tell Murray to get him on the floor. Alvarez stated he and Murray did just that, yet the paramedic says that Michael was on the bed when they arrived four minutes later. Huge discrepency... not exactly a small detail you might forget.
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Reading through today's notes-which I will put up first thing in the morning as I am about to drop off just one thing I want to leave you with....when Kai said on LKL in 2009 they took the 'body' out of the house and security asked her to move about 1...and then settled at 1.30
how is this possible
This questioning of Dr. Murry took place at 1:35 in the room where there were five or six people working on Michael Jackson. Correct. She checked her pager,it was 100% 1:35
It took much longer than 5mins to get to UCLA in LA traffic at lunch time....in an ambulance with no sirens going.
Someone needs to draw up some sort of LOGICAL timeline,this is absolutley ridiculous.
@DTD as far as I know and have been told/read so far they found him sprawled out on the bed.I have no idea how he got to be on the floor,then back on the bed again.
There is no way Taaj was in court,That transcript from twitter has been taken from a summary from someone else.I have just read a very similar one myself.
I will give you as I said above,the summary when I wake up,I need to sleep right now.
There are names for those numbers.
Sorry but I really would not put faith in anything she says/tweets/does.She is one of the stalkers,has been accused of fraud and has multiple restraining orders against her-and because of those that is how she was not in court...the person who has them against her was in there herself.I'm sure there would be no tolleration of fan wars at a manslaughter prelim.
There is no ifs or buts about it.
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I have a headache.
But it's becoming clear, THIS is why we have been hoaxing for 18 months. To have memorized the original statements completely so we can immediately recognize the BLATANT contradictions now.
I'm back to assuming court can't be real real. Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
This is why cops and detectives and lawyers aren't handling the prelim case, which is what's normal, and instead we have the actual witnesses in person, junking up a whole lot of time and days. Because This Is It.
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******update
MJ´s medical records in Joe Jackson´s lawsuit,states,the intraaortic ballon pump was inserted at 2.05pm, AFTER they detected heartbeat OUCH-also sort of impossible too??yet Dr. Cooper said she didn´t recognize a heartbeat at the time, but it was written down in the medical records she did...and she signed them anyway.
Also,What happened to no one being in the house
it was packed lmao
The maid,Dr,kids,Alvarez,Kai,security
Table for 7+sec detail
The security tapes that the police downloaded were of the gates and the front entrance of the house ONLY and nothing from inside the home.They are still missing...no one bothered to find out where they went..just like they never asked Murray where he was taking bags of Michael's posessions too...
Pictures have just been shown to the court of his bedroom/scene,no body was pictured in them(go figure) and the markers which showed where the body was found by Murray...ARE ON THE FLOOR NOT THE BED.
I just watched a video of Kai on LKL and i'm sorry...but if Michael Jackson is dying upstairs,y'all dont get in a circle in the den and pray you fucking move your ass up those stairs,ALLOWED or not-rules don't apply when your boss has no heartbeat love...and you do something,anything to help.
LK"did you see them remove the body?"
K"No,they asked us to leave the hall at 1...1.30,security asked us to leave"
Pretty big gap that whole 30mins floating around somewhere
Why was Dr murray running downstairs to talk to prince shouldn't he of been non stop ressus on Michael...I mean ffs man...the king of music is dying on the bed....er...floor...er..bed..no floor!and your running away?
She never heard the 911 call
No one spoke to her and told her he was going to the hospital..so nothing to suggest her boss was gone and she was unemployed?charming...
and then to top it off.....SHE LEFT WORKING THERE IN MAY 2009 what on earth....
why was she back in June?hmmmmmmmmmmm??
never knew that...
Give me strength.
Whatta mess. It's like Cluedo. Who did it? (Mike or Conny) Where? (Bed or floor) With what? (Propofol or Lorazepam).
(http://www.usernetsite.com/humor/cat-did-it-09080921275674/funny-dog-pictures-mess-cat-did-it.jpg)
Oh my, I've come home to the scene in that photograph before. The only difference is that I don't have a cat so they tried to blame the turtle!
lol
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If this whole thing does not scream INCOMPETANCE...I give up
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Whew! It's taken all day and evening to get through all this. Thank you Sinderella and Souza for keeping the peace.
So many contradictions!
Right there and what we've read about for the past 18 months.
I also fond another site with what went on:
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/ (http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/)
It's interesting to read the different "takes" and get different views.
Gotta keep our eyes open!
There is truth somewhere in this mess, and it's not even close to being over.
It all makes me feel sad even though I believe Michael is alive. I'll stay strong and be supportive, watch, listen and learn.
This old lady needs to get to bed now, my puppy says she is up too late it is time for snuggling in bed!
At this point we really still don't know what happened, we know there are too many stories!!!!
Stay strong!
We Love you and miss you Michael!!!
Keeping the Faith!!!!
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Thank you so much Sinderella for updating everybody!!
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You are very welcome <3
I am trying to keep it updated as much as I can as quick as I can,and like I said any info I miss-and there will be something, just add it on here or send me it to include in the locked thread.
There was A LOT of information pouring out of that court room yesterday because of all the numbers,names,times etc being worked through,medical staff talking about different drugs and so on,and all relative,so I will have it up by this afternoon hopefully sorted into some sort of order and then we're into day 4 of this masterpiece,well I say masterpiece atm it's like a comdedy sketch...
I really do think there needs to be a time line done from what was said in 09 and what is being said now to compare,if anyone wishes to attempt that and has time it would be extremley helpful
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Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
Judges actors?! I would like to believe it ....... but come on, this is too much.....not even Michael Jackson can't do it..... and I wish to be wrong
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Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
Judges actors?! I would like to believe it ....... but come on, this is too much.....not even Michael Jackson can't do it..... and I wish to be wrong
Exactly what I have been trying to say but it keeps falling on deaf ears and my comments are dismissed :(
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I agree with the posts above, i don't think that it's really possible to hire actors who will act as judges in the court, it's too much even for a megastar like MJ, however i wish it were true :(
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Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
Judges actors?! I would like to believe it ....... but come on, this is too much.....not even Michael Jackson can't do it..... and I wish to be wrong
Exactly what I have been trying to say but it keeps falling on deaf ears and my comments are dismissed :(
I'm just wondering, what did you guys expect?
That there will be no court, no judges, no lawyers, no witnesses, or? Of course, there are. There's no need to be negative, we've all knew this was goin' to happen.
Finally something is happening. So just stay calm till the end, and watch. ;)
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Please, I am fed up with being told to be calm. I am perfectly calm. I have worked in the legal professional for more than 25 years and again, am just voicing my opinion that this all seems too real for even MJ to pull off. Why is it that when one of us happens to comment that we think the hearing is "real" we are jumped on and told to calm down. I thought the purpose of the site was for all of us to be able to voice our opinions not just when those opinions conformed to what the majority think.
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Please, I am fed up with being told to be calm. I am perfectly calm. I have worked in the legal professional for more than 25 years and again, am just voicing my opinion that this all seems too real for even MJ to pull off. Why is it that when one of us happens to comment that we think the hearing is "real" we are jumped on and told to calm down. I thought the purpose of the site was for all of us to be able to voice our opinions not just when those opinions conformed to what the majority think.
:shock: :roll: Ooookay...
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http://gracemj.wordpress.com/2011/01/06 ... z/#respond (http://gracemj.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/court-day-3-murray-prelim-tmz/#respond) having just read this whos to say murray wasnt txtin people to make good michaels getaway ok we have heard it was to hide evidence but if its a fake death then wouldnt you be nervous about hiding a superstar? murray may of been txtin to get things in place for michaels getaway and maybe they used a hospice patient to fake death IDK anymore.
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For the record,I have not once said the Judge is an actor.
The purpose of the two threads,the discussion and the summary updates are to provide as much insight into what is going on,being said,and how ridiculous this whole thing is.
Of course it's real,the media are reporting it,it's going down,the point is though that everything being said is bullshit.Not one story matches.How can a man be convicted of manslaughter when there is going to be around 30+stories...all saying different things.Full trial would be based on facts,and evidence and there being enough of both and atm..there appears to be neither.
If you read what is being said,the conflicting stories,the time lines that make no sense,the actions that make even less sense than the time line,the lies and uncertainties of everyone involved,lack of tested evidence,lack of crime scene,unrecovered evidence-cctv/bottles,it is quite clear...this is just typical Hollywood.
There has been no proof given as yet that Murray killed anyone and the way it's going...there is none.
They hadn't even tested the syringes up until about 2days ago and there is barely anything in them to test,dust anyone?
There is no proof of a body-they took pictures without one
The paramedics waited for Dr Murray to run around the upstairs picking up things while they had the most famous man in the world flat lining in the back...but it's fine cause those bottles he had to collect were more vital than getting the patient to the hospital.
Ambulance-reversed from a donut driveway,no sirens....sorry....two of the biggest mistakes to date.
apart from Alvarez,Murray and some medical staff who have already lied on the med reports,had inconsistent stories,one was missing all day and wouldn't sign anything to do with him...who saw the body,cold,dead,lifeless,blue?I am yet to hear someone of legit standing and someone trustworthy stand up and say,I saw him.
There is no one.Every single person in this makes no sense.
He was on the bed-sprawled,looking lifeless,then he was on the floor...then he was back on the bed,yet the police markers are on the floor which is not where paramedics found him.
House,left open for 4days afterwards...everyone and their mother walked through that house taking things,leaving things. NOT normal.
The UCLA staff and paramedics asked Murray about times,he said he had no watch on-but he had 2cell phones,and in every picture since he has worn one.
The heartbeat-there was one,and a pump was inserted...then there wasn't one and he was dead...but he had been dead at the house and on the way...which was 2hrs+ before he got there so no medical expert would work on someone knowing their brain had been deprived of oxygen for that long(MAX is about 12mins I think and even then your pushing the chance of regaining full brain function again)
It would be inhuman to bring someone to life and they be brain dead and living only with support of machines...and also,nearly impossible.
Murray knew nothing all morning,denied even giving him any sort of drug,said he was just dehydrated and then all of a sudden,he'd witnessed the cardiac arrest and him die.
What?
He is a cardiologist ok..but who doesn't know CPR-or thinks its ok on a bed with one hand,doesn't know mouth to mouth,doesn't know where his only patient lives-how does he get to work??still gotta type it into the sat nav if you don't know the way.
He ran downstairs to talk to Prince-mid CPR,didn't know the times of events,didn't know much really for a qualified medical professionaml hired to look after and possibly save the life of a human being did he really?
He was originally brought in 'supposedly' for the TII tour,
(lets not forget his license is not valid abroad)to work on him if needed in the UK IF the tour was going ahead(and was real which is wasn't) and anything happened in the 02arena...they would lose their insurance money because Murray wasn't licensed to perform on him and I don't think the 02 would be having that.They would of insisted he use a UK Dr or someone with a legal right to look after him while in London.
So Murray...really was brought in just for this because he was useless anywhere else.
This goes along with his 'other name' multiple addresses,strange pictures of his surgery which...aren't his surgery,and that he talks to his patients via youtube.
No one is going to try to tell me Michael Jackson,on a strict organic,healthy diet,in love with life and his children,wouldn't even let them on the internet or watch most of the TV for fear their innocence would be taken and they'd read/see bad things.....was walking around with no clothes on,a catheter in,drugged out his mind,with his bedroom door wide open.He didn't have secret drug binges in the middle of the night like people go snack from the fridge while they slept,and then appear fine for lunch to sit with them,then go do whatever.That routine everyday would show clear signs to anyone a mile away from him.
I could go on and on...and I really would like to but it's all already out there,you know it,it's why your here now....just because a judge is listening to it doesn't mean those facts^^^are any less real or correct.
And if I have said calm down-I have explained why and also it is for people coming out with things like 'that's it...he is really dead' not to stop people having an opinion.
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if this dont goto trial then i know its a fix/false they will find a reason for it not to goto trial im sure and if like people think its a hoax then why would they send an innocent man (murray) to jail he is the fall guy in all of this,but if it is true and he is really dead then murray derserves everything he gets like u said he was more bothered about hiding evidence than tryin to save michael which to me is stupid your more likely to goto jail for him dying than him living and you having to explain why the hospital set up in mikes room!
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Thank you for your insight. I have never said "it's all over, he's dead" in fact I still believe he is alive. All I meant by my comments was that I (personally) think this has now gone too far and when the truth eventually surfaces (which I am doubtful about) a lot of people are going to be in serious trouble. I wondered why MJ would do this to his family and nearest and dearest.
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here is a thought....................
WHAT IF.................the judge,having been contacted by MICHEAL .agrees 100% to his plan,because the judge knows and hates the bad stuff that goes down today
WHAT IF.................the whole of the 9th floor is given over to producing this "film"
WHAT IF............we obviously cant be told the truth YET
WHAT IF...........i go back to my padded cell now.........................xxx
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here is a thought....................
WHAT IF.................the judge,having been contacted by MICHEAL .agrees 100% to his plan,because the judge knows and hates the bad stuff that goes down today
WHAT IF.................the whole of the 9th floor is given over to producing this "film"
WHAT IF............we obviously cant be told the truth YET
WHAT IF...........i go back to my padded cell now.........................xxx
Is it a large padded cell because I would very much like to join you lol
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yes its huge,and pink ha ha come on over xxx
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yes its huge,and pink ha ha come on over xxx
Great give me directions and I'll be there lol x
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I have a headache.
But it's becoming clear, THIS is why we have been hoaxing for 18 months. To have memorized the original statements completely so we can immediately recognize the BLATANT contradictions now.
I'm back to assuming court can't be real real. Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
This is why cops and detectives and lawyers aren't handling the prelim case, which is what's normal, and instead we have the actual witnesses in person, junking up a whole lot of time and days. Because This Is It.
The Honorable Michael Pastor is a very real judge, and he is a very no nonsense man. He's tough as nails and sharp as a sword.
DDA Walgren is also a very real prosecutor & he's very good at his job. He's experienced with high profile celebrity cases.
Cops do not handle preliminary cases. Judges do. Cops gather evidence and turn it over to the prosecution who, in turn, presents it during a preliminary hearing. Based upon the evidence the prosecution provides (witnesses, scientific test results, ballistics, etc.), the judge then decides if their is enough merit to justify a jury trial.
These witnesses aren't junking anything. They are a critical and vital part of the preliminary hearing.
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I have a headache.
But it's becoming clear, THIS is why we have been hoaxing for 18 months. To have memorized the original statements completely so we can immediately recognize the BLATANT contradictions now.
I'm back to assuming court can't be real real. Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
This is why cops and detectives and lawyers aren't handling the prelim case, which is what's normal, and instead we have the actual witnesses in person, junking up a whole lot of time and days. Because This Is It.
The Honorable Michael Pastor is a very real judge, and he is a very no nonsense man. He's tough as nails and sharp as a sword.
DDA Walgren is also a very real prosecutor & he's very good at his job. He's experienced with high profile celebrity cases.
Think bigger.
Think outside the box ;)
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I am really very sorry for the delay on yesterday's summary everyone,had some 'real life' problems to sort out,not in the best mood.
I will get Day 3 up asap, drink some tea,get calm,get focussed and be back with you for day 4 of this monumental event.
S xo
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I have a headache.
But it's becoming clear, THIS is why we have been hoaxing for 18 months. To have memorized the original statements completely so we can immediately recognize the BLATANT contradictions now.
I'm back to assuming court can't be real real. Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
This is why cops and detectives and lawyers aren't handling the prelim case, which is what's normal, and instead we have the actual witnesses in person, junking up a whole lot of time and days. Because This Is It.
The Honorable Michael Pastor is a very real judge, and he is a very no nonsense man. He's tough as nails and sharp as a sword.
DDA Walgren is also a very real prosecutor & he's very good at his job. He's experienced with high profile celebrity cases.
Cops do not handle preliminary cases. Judges do. Cops gather evidence and turn it over to the prosecution who, in turn, presents it during a preliminary hearing. Based upon the evidence the prosecution provides (witnesses, scientific test results, ballistics, etc.), the judge then decides if their is enough merit to justify a jury trial.
These witnesses aren't junking anything. They are a critical and vital part of the preliminary hearing.
This is all very real.
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If a real body was procured, in some way, then the paramedics are telling the truth about the events of that day therefore they would not be in on the hoax. It explains why they would not have recognized Michael (because it wasn't him) and why it would seem that he had been "down" for a lengthy amount of time (because the body would be from a previously deceased person).
If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.
If a real body was used, the reports by the other witnesses who were present in the house, may also be accurate from their point of view. Using a real body, would diminish the number of people involved in the hoax, the less people actually in on the hoax...the more successful it would be. Less people, means more control over how things unfold and less chances of someone revealing the hoax before intended.
Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.
How else would the hoax gain more attention, beyond the believers, who are already aware of it. It had to go "Global" as in the media reporting this hearing or nothing would progress further than it has, we would be at a standstill.
On another note, the admitting name supposedly used at UCLA was Shaun Soule. The reason given for this was to protect Michael's privacy and prevent a crush of people and media coming to UCLA. Well we know that didn't work, National Photo Group was at Michael's house so it was reported anyway. But if they used an alias when admitting Michael to the hospital, why did they use a completely different one on the blood samples obtained from the body?
They autopsy report tells us that the vials of blood were labelled as "Gershwin" and this was the blood used for the reported testing in the autopsy report.
There would have been no reason to use two different aliases, one for the patient and one for the patient's blood samples. The using of the Shaun Soule alias did not even come out until weeks after June 25, 2009 so the use of a different alias on the blood samples wasn't required to protect Michael Jackson's privacy. These blood samples were taken prior to any death having been pronounced and when resuscitation efforts were still ongoing.I would think that it is procedure to label blood and other fluid samples with the same name that a patient is admitted under so that these samples can be matched up with the right patient when results are obtained.
So there must be another reason why two different names would have been used.
Gershwin
George & Ira Gershwin - brothers, composer/pianist & lyricist." Porgy and Bess" is their most renowned Opera. There most popular song came from this Opera "It Ain't Necessarily So".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess
It Ain't Necessarily So - It's not as it at first seems, It's fake, It's not true...it's a hoax.
Liza May Minnelli is an American singer and actress. She is the daughter of singer and actress Judy Garland (Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz) and film director Vincente Minnelli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli
Liza Minnelli's godfather is IRA GERSHWIN.
http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333
Shaun - God's Gift
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php
Anglicized form of SEÁN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun
SEÁN - God Is Gracious
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php
Irish form of JOHN
http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n
JOHN - God Is Gracious, Merciful
http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php
English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". This name owes its popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered saints. The first was John the Baptist, a Jewish ascetic who was considered the forerunner of Jesus Christ. The second was the apostle John, who was also traditionally regarded as the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation
http://www.behindthename.com/name/john
Soule - Obsolete spelling of SOUL
French verb
1. First-person singular present indicative of SOULER.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soule
Souler
1. (transitive) To get (someone) drunk.
2. (transitive, literary) To fill up as if with food.
3. (transitive) To confuse or extenuate with an unending flow of something.
4. (transitive) To figuratively intoxicate or overexcite.
5. (reflexive) To get drunk.
6. (reflexive) To consume excessively of something; to gorge oneself on something.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/souler#French
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Of course the prelims are real, as it was the ones of Michael back in 2005 and his trial. All based in lies and fake evidences, costing money and hearthache. It was a real trial but the reasons for it were lies, one after the other, but it happened.
Why not? why can´t "Michael" have a real trial based on fake evidence and full of contradictions? It happened to him in the past.
Murray will not be guilty and I hope the proof is Michael coming up as a witness and giving his testimony.
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I am the one who mentioned that people in any profession can moonlight on the side as actors etc....and I will not be swayed in my way of thinking by doubters. If someone has given up hope and faith then that is their right but please do not try and change the way I think about it because I'm locked into my own opinions on this matter.
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If we assume there really was a body - not Michael's but a double's dead body - than the paramedics are telling the truth they saw that moment.
Maybe there was an autopsy on this double body IDK.
Thinking about it all I would say there had to be a dead body involved. It's hard to imagine the hoax could have been done without a corpse, because this would imply the paramedics and doctors and those who did the autopsy or lied about doing it are in the hoax and I don't think this is possible.
But, again, they did no DNA test of that dead man?
Oh I don't know anything, it's so frustrating.......
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Of course the prelims are real, as it was the ones of Michael back in 2005 and his trial. All based in lies and fake evidences, costing money and hearthache. It was a real trial but the reasons for it were lies, one after the other, but it happened.
Why not? why can´t "Michael" have a real trial based on fake evidence and full of contradictions? It happened to him in the past.
Murray will not be guilty and I hope the proof is Michael coming up as a witness and giving his testimony.
[/u]
As crazy as it sounds, and even though I was a little upset at this trial, I think it is quite possible to happen.
A single defense witness for Murray, then Michael comes beautifully alive and Bam! So, Who will have a heart attack?
I love thinking about that event! ;)
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@AnaMarcia. What would MJ be achieving by suddenly appearing to defend Murray? Please forgive me if I'm missing the point but I thought the consensus of opinion was that Murray was the fall guy for the hoax.
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OMG so much hostility, come on guys, we need to work together not being mean to eachother. @peggy, yes you are entitled to your opinion, and your opion is valuable to us, well to me. Now I know this seems so unbelievable, I agree with all of you. I don't think these are actors. Murray is I am sure of it. So now what I heard on cnn, is that they are planting the seeds into our heads that Michael committed suicide, he is the one who put more propofol into his body. Now this is just my opinion and please do not bash me. What if, they the verdict will be that Michael killed himself, committed suicide, Murray will not go to jail, right? Michael does not want to put in jail an innocent man. Once the trial is over, Conrad Murray a free man, Michael will come out, and show the world who he really is. Michael will not have a innocent man go to jail, unless Murray is evil and Michael knows something about him. I just want to say keep up the faith, I know it is easier said than done, I wrote this to another post, HAVE FAITH, AND GOD WILL HELP US. This is a TEST OF FAITH. Look at us, we are fighting because of difference of opinions. It is just an opinion, take it and put it in good use.
We all the evidence we found, how can Michael be dead? Ted Reilly says Michael is alive, Akon, Eros Ramazotti, all singers and produceres. Come one guys, lets help eachother to find more evidence. I know it is frustrating and aggravating to listen to the news and hear what we do not want to hear, they have no choice, they cannot come to us and say by the way Michael is alive we are just doing this because we feel like it. Just be positive, and everything will be ok.
PEACE AND L.O.V.E. God bless us all.
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I just read the article from the last TS redirection. No way Michael is the one who died.
The more I read what the media is reporting the most upset i get. They should consider people to be really silly :evil: Like if MJ fans and supporters would be dumb :evil: well, well..... :roll:
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I have a headache.
But it's becoming clear, THIS is why we have been hoaxing for 18 months. To have memorized the original statements completely so we can immediately recognize the BLATANT contradictions now.
I'm back to assuming court can't be real real. Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
This is why cops and detectives and lawyers aren't handling the prelim case, which is what's normal, and instead we have the actual witnesses in person, junking up a whole lot of time and days. Because This Is It.
The Honorable Michael Pastor is a very real judge, and he is a very no nonsense man. He's tough as nails and sharp as a sword.
DDA Walgren is also a very real prosecutor & he's very good at his job. He's experienced with high profile celebrity cases.
Cops do not handle preliminary cases. Judges do. Cops gather evidence and turn it over to the prosecution who, in turn, presents it during a preliminary hearing. Based upon the evidence the prosecution provides (witnesses, scientific test results, ballistics, etc.), the judge then decides if their is enough merit to justify a jury trial.
These witnesses aren't junking anything. They are a critical and vital part of the preliminary hearing.
This is all very real.
You are 100% correct.
It has been many, many years since I've worked in the Cali justice system, but I assure you this is not a dog and pony show being put on simply for the benefit of a giving validity to a hoax of some sort. This is not a movie set with props and extras. These are real people, and this is a real proceeding. There are very specific and serious legal implications for one who'd use the courts frivolously, so I am inclined to believe (IMO) that many more sinister and illegal activities may be uncovered & revealed before this event runs its course.
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So you are also saying that MJ really died??? ^^^^ :cry:
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@AnaMarcia. What would MJ be achieving by suddenly appearing to defend Murray? Please forgive me if I'm missing the point but I thought the consensus of opinion was that Murray was the fall guy for the hoax.
I do not know if there is consensus in opinions here, Peggy. Much we're confused. I haven't even a consensus about it! :?
But if by a miracle to happen, Murray and Michael himself would say that finaly tune the truth about this story that seems so dirty.
Anyway, Murray is in the dock and are trying to prove he's guilty enough to go on trial for manslaughter! So, for the justice He is not a scapegoat, but the person who "killed" unintentionally Michael Jackson.
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If anybody had a doubt about American justice system, now it is good time and example to see otherwise. Every country's legal system is not ideal. But you can' t say there is no justice at all (in any country). In fact, Michael was acquitted of all charges even though he was prosecuted.
As I said earlier, prosecutor has complaint, fact of death, they have to pursue the case. That is their job. Michael's "death" is not an exception. There is someone died instead, then there is a case for prosection to bring to the court. Did you expect that prosecutor will let it go? But then you would say they don't love Michael and did not prosecute Murrey. That would have never happened. Everything what is now going on is normal. It still does not mean Michael is dead. The option of Michael being in witness protection is weaken. But we have to wait and see.
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So you are also saying that MJ really died??? ^^^^ :cry:
If this question was directed towards me, I am not saying Michael is dead. I believe he could very much be alive.
My personal beliefs are if he did fake his death, it wasn't to get out of any concerts, or to take a vacation from it all, but rather to expose criminal activity (conspiracy/attempted murder, and possibly much more) perpetrated against him and others by the corporate powers that be.
IOW, he and his family (the children) were in harm's way.
There is so much (though poorly hidden) circumstantial evidence that would lead one to conclude he is indeed alive.
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So you are also saying that MJ really died??? ^^^^ :cry:
If this question was directed towards me, I am not saying Michael is dead. I believe he could very much be alive.
My personal beliefs are if he did fake his death, it wasn't to get out of any concerts, or to take a vacation from it all, but rather to expose criminal activity (conspiracy/attempted murder, and possibly much more) perpetrated against him and others by the corporate powers that be.
IOW, he and his family (the children) were in harm's way.
There is so much (though poorly hidden) circumstantial evidence that would lead one to conclude he is indeed alive.
AMEN :!:
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Sinderella wrote:
For the record,I have not once said the Judge is an actor.
The purpose of the two threads,the discussion and the summary updates are to provide as much insight into what is going on,being said,and how ridiculous this whole thing is.
Of course it's real,the media are reporting it,it's going down,the point is though that everything being said is bullshit.Not one story matches.How can a man be convicted of manslaughter when there is going to be around 30+stories...all saying different things.Full trial would be based on facts,and evidence and there being enough of both and atm..there appears to be neither.
If you read what is being said,the conflicting stories,the time lines that make no sense,the actions that make even less sense than the time line,the lies and uncertainties of everyone involved,lack of tested evidence,lack of crime scene,unrecovered evidence-cctv/bottles,it is quite clear...this is just typical Hollywood.
There has been no proof given as yet that Murray killed anyone and the way it's going...there is none.
They hadn't even tested the syringes up until about 2days ago and there is barely anything in them to test,dust anyone?
There is no proof of a body-they took pictures without one
The paramedics waited for Dr Murray to run around the upstairs picking up things while they had the most famous man in the world flat lining in the back...but it's fine cause those bottles he had to collect were more vital than getting the patient to the hospital.
Ambulance-reversed from a donut driveway,no sirens....sorry....two of the biggest mistakes to date.
apart from Alvarez,Murray and some medical staff who have already lied on the med reports,had inconsistent stories,one was missing all day and wouldn't sign anything to do with him...who saw the body,cold,dead,lifeless,blue?I am yet to hear someone of legit standing and someone trustworthy stand up and say,I saw him.
There is no one.Every single person in this makes no sense.
He was on the bed-sprawled,looking lifeless,then he was on the floor...then he was back on the bed,yet the police markers are on the floor which is not where paramedics found him.
House,left open for 4days afterwards...everyone and their mother walked through that house taking things,leaving things. NOT normal.
The UCLA staff and paramedics asked Murray about times,he said he had no watch on-but he had 2cell phones,and in every picture since he has worn one.
The heartbeat-there was one,and a pump was inserted...then there wasn't one and he was dead...but he had been dead at the house and on the way...which was 2hrs+ before he got there so no medical expert would work on someone knowing their brain had been deprived of oxygen for that long(MAX is about 12mins I think and even then your pushing the chance of regaining full brain function again)
It would be inhuman to bring someone to life and they be brain dead and living only with support of machines...and also,nearly impossible.
Murray knew nothing all morning,denied even giving him any sort of drug,said he was just dehydrated and then all of a sudden,he'd witnessed the cardiac arrest and him die.
What?
He is a cardiologist ok..but who doesn't know CPR-or thinks its ok on a bed with one hand,doesn't know mouth to mouth,doesn't know where his only patient lives-how does he get to work??still gotta type it into the sat nav if you don't know the way.
He ran downstairs to talk to Prince-mid CPR,didn't know the times of events,didn't know much really for a qualified medical professionaml hired to look after and possibly save the life of a human being did he really?
He was originally brought in 'supposedly' for the TII tour,
(lets not forget his license is not valid abroad)to work on him if needed in the UK IF the tour was going ahead(and was real which is wasn't) and anything happened in the 02arena...they would lose their insurance money because Murray wasn't licensed to perform on him and I don't think the 02 would be having that.They would of insisted he use a UK Dr or someone with a legal right to look after him while in London.
So Murray...really was brought in just for this because he was useless anywhere else.
This goes along with his 'other name' multiple addresses,strange pictures of his surgery which...aren't his surgery,and that he talks to his patients via youtube.
No one is going to try to tell me Michael Jackson,on a strict organic,healthy diet,in love with life and his children,wouldn't even let them on the internet or watch most of the TV for fear their innocence would be taken and they'd read/see bad things.....was walking around with no clothes on,a catheter in,drugged out his mind,with his bedroom door wide open.He didn't have secret drug binges in the middle of the night like people go snack from the fridge while they slept,and then appear fine for lunch to sit with them,then go do whatever.That routine everyday would show clear signs to anyone a mile away from him.
I could go on and on...and I really would like to but it's all already out there,you know it,it's why your here now....just because a judge is listening to it doesn't mean those facts^^^are any less real or correct.
And if I have said calm down-I have explained why and also it is for people coming out with things like 'that's it...he is really dead' not to stop people having an opinion.
(http://smilies-gifs.com/ok/21ok.gif)
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Why are people being hostile?
This event was always coming,it's always been real and the facts remain.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion,no one's is less important than another so why is there such a negative vibe running through the last few pages of the thread?That isn't what it's about.
Every person here has their own view of what's going on so lets respect one another and KW.xo
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Why are people being hostile?
This event was always coming,it's always been real and the facts remain.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion,no one's is less important than another so why is there such a negative vibe running through the last few pages of the thread?That isn't what it's about.
Every person here has their own view of what's going on so lets respect one another and KW.xo
Absolutely agree. I hope my comments were not considered hostile as that was certainly not my intention. :oops:
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GUYS.. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
WAS MICHAEL ON THE BED OR ON THE FLOOR??????
Depends what room you are talking about:
Michael's bedroom, the guest room, Doc Murray's room?
For a CPR I would assume first on the bed and then on the floor?
For situps first on the floor and then into a shower and then into the bed?
The face in the ambulance pic was PERFECTLY shaved.
No way that one was showing a man after a sleepless night.
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GUYS.. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
WAS MICHAEL ON THE BED OR ON THE FLOOR??????
Depends what room you are talking about:
Michael's bedroom, the guest room, Doc Murray's room?
For a CPR I would assume first on the bed and then on the floor?
For situps first on the floor and then into a shower and then into the bed?
The face in the ambulance pic was PERFECTLY shaved.
No way that one was showing a man after a sleepless night.
OMG! Never in a million years would I have thought about THAT! BRILLIANT! It reminds me of Elle Woods (Naturally blond) crossexaming the girl with the perm who claimed she was in the shower washing her hair, that's why she couldn't hear anything. And then Elle exposing her lie: that you don't shower for 24 hours after having gotten a perm!
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latoyajackson Latoya Jackson
Hello all! I really want 2 thank U all for your love & support during this preliminary trial. Today was a very interesting day. More later!!
19hours ago
Interesting day?I'd say so Ms Jackson.
She sounded really sad at hearing that her brother was flatlining and no one was that arsed about rushing him anywhere or whether they felt a heartbeat or not....
The picture from the ambulance is fake though.It is photoshopped from a picture of Michael lying down on stage a few years back,it was actually proven.It has come from the NPG.
@peggy99 no it was just a general comment to everyone,I sounded quite harsh talking about how Taaj is a liar in a comment but it's true haha!I just want this thread to be and stay factual,informative,supportive and on the ball.
As Michael would say....WITH THE L O V E :mrgreen:
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Interesting day?
I am not form USA, but her message sounds joyful. Your brother has been murdered according to you and the day was interesting?
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I am adding some old material that has been deleted since.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE EVENTS TOOK PLACE AS DESCRIBED.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE PERSON DESCRIBED WAS MJ.
It's a blog entry from a paramedic's wife on June 26, 2009:
CPR VIP: that’s the text message I received from Jeff at 2:38 PM yesterday. I am not going to write the name here because I don’t want search engines to turn it up but I think you know who I mean. As you know, Jeff’s fire station is in Bel Air and they got the emergency call. Jeff said they used everything in their paramedic kits and worked on him for 45 minutes taking turns doing chest compressions. He’s pretty sure he was gone before they got there. They went to UCLA medical center with him and had to stay quite a long time. I could see Jeff’s rescue ambulance- 71’s- on the news at the ER entrance for hours. He finally called me around 7 PM and still couldn’t say much. He was warned that the paparazzi can intercept cellphone calls. Back at his fire station, he was fielding phone calls from TMZ and other celebrity websites looking for information. Of course, he is saying, “No comment.” All of the guys on Jeff’s crew had cellphones with cameras but not one took a photo. That would be a million dollar photo. I asked him what I could write today and he said that he would only be comfortable with this… so that’s all for now. We also lost Farrah Fawcett yesterday and that was a long, hard brave struggle that she fought. I had the Farrah Flip back in the 1970’s… we all did.
This man is said to have texted at 2:38 p.m. "CPR VIP".
This does NOT express any occurance of a death.
The death was communicated by family and media.
2.26pm (10.26pm) - Jackson is officially pronounced dead.
2.35pm (10.35pm) – Fire official tells LA Times that Jackson is in hospital. This is then reported by Associated Press
2.44pm (10.44pm) - TMZ.com breaks news Jackson has died, leading Google to crash.
And WHY was the paramedic warned about paparazzi's methods? By whom?
Disclosure agreement? Exclusivity contract with TMZ?
Don't forget Michael sitting up on the stretcher when entering UCLA.
[youtube:3bck0qsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCVaaM[/youtube:3bck0qsc]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCVaaM
And the bodyguards with a person changing cloths?
[youtube:3bck0qsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8[/youtube:3bck0qsc]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8
Indeed an interesting day in court that only thickened the fog - "creamy days". :lol:
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Awesome find/piece of info Grace!
Just watching those vids now
Note***
Court is expecting to be ending early today because it is a 'friday' lol...no idea what difference that makes to life but it is and so it gives me time to get day 4 sorted too.
Day 3 summary and Day 4 will go up before tomorrow morning so we have lots to look into over the weekend,get refreshed on what's gone in the past and what's been said this week.
Link from CNN to read in the mean time
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/07/california.conrad.murray.hearing/
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Serenitys_dream wrote:
Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.
Yes, that's exactly what I think.
The trial is real and I expect it will end in 2012, more controversial witnesses will testify in the next 6+ months. It's getting more&more interesting and thrilling and sure there will be moments you wanna scream. Especially because of all the media speculations and "how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions". Very interesting for Michael & his hoax team to investigate the trial, the media moves and the public, which will be used for a docu drama or "live action drama" like SD wrote, with the red line of creating public awareness of Michael being alive AND how media can easily fool everyone.
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This is definitely going to be a roller coaster! And it is going to last for a long time. If some of you are old enough, Do you all remember the OJ Simpson court case. It lasted for a very long time and it wasn't as high profile as MJ. I am actually very surprised that MJ's case is not televised. OJ's was. I can remember coming home from work, wanting nothing more than to relax and watch my soap oprahs, but I couldn't because this case was on the tv.
If you feel that you are getting overwhelmed with it. Take a break from this site. This is not the time for all of us to be falling apart and giving up hope that he is alive. Like many have said before, we all knew this day was coming. We just need to remember that this is just prelim. The judge is trying to figure out if there is enough evidence to proceed to trial.
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This is definitely going to be a roller coaster! And it is going to last for a long time. If some of you are old enough, Do you all remember the OJ Simpson court case. It lasted for a very long time and it wasn't as high profile as MJ. I am actually very surprised that MJ's case is not televised. OJ's was. I can remember coming home from work, wanting nothing more than to relax and watch my soap oprahs, but I couldn't because this case was on the tv.
If you feel that you are getting overwhelmed with it. Take a break from this site. This is not the time for all of us to be falling apart and giving up hope that he is alive. Like many have said before, we all knew this day was coming. We just need to remember that this is just prelim. The judge is trying to figure out if there is enough evidence to proceed to trial.
I can certainly remember the OJ trial and was indeed glued to my TV. If you think of all the things that were televised regarding the OJ case it does seem somewhat strange that we have nothing at all of importance in the MJ case.
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This is definitely going to be a roller coaster! And it is going to last for a long time. If some of you are old enough, Do you all remember the OJ Simpson court case. It lasted for a very long time and it wasn't as high profile as MJ. I am actually very surprised that MJ's case is not televised. OJ's was. I can remember coming home from work, wanting nothing more than to relax and watch my soap oprahs, but I couldn't because this case was on the tv.
If you feel that you are getting overwhelmed with it. Take a break from this site. This is not the time for all of us to be falling apart and giving up hope that he is alive. Like many have said before, we all knew this day was coming. We just need to remember that this is just prelim. The judge is trying to figure out if there is enough evidence to proceed to trial.
I can certainly remember the OJ trial and was indeed glued to my TV. If you think of all the things that were televised regarding the OJ case it does seem somewhat strange that we have nothing at all of importance in the MJ case.
I think the media is noticing all the facts mismatched and absurdities that are being reported.
They're just watching.
Here in Brazil, they just gave few details of the first day and stopped there. Maybe go back to comment only on the last day.
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Mel and her 2 friends who are in her appartment are so harshhhhhhhhhh! They say that we are not grieving..and not hurting. BITCHES
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Los Angeles (CNN) -- A coroner's investigator testified Friday that she recovered a dozen bottles of propofol from the closet of Michael Jackson's bedroom, including an empty bottle found on the floor near his bed.
Propofol is the surgical anesthetic that the Los Angeles County coroner concluded killed Jackson when it was combined with sedatives given the pop star to help him.
Coroner's investigator Elissa Fleak was the 16th witness to testify in the preliminary hearing, being held to decide if the involuntary manslaughter case against Dr. Conrad Murray will go to trial.
Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor will decide if there is "probable cause" to move the case forward. The hearing is expected to last two or three weeks with 20 to 30 witnesses.
A look back at MJ's death as trial nears RELATED TOPICS
Conrad Murray
Michael Jackson
A Houston cocktail waitress, Sade Anding, testified Friday that she was on the phone with the singer's doctor when the doctor suddenly stopped responding to her just before noon on June 25, 2009.
That is the moment prosecutors contend Dr. Conrad Murray first realized Jackson had stopped breathing.
"I didn't hear him on the phone anymore," Anding said. "I heard commotion as if the phone was in a pocket and I heard coughing and I heard a mumbling of voices."
Anding stayed on the phone for another five minutes, listening and wondering why the man she sometimes dated wasn't responding, she said. "Hello, hello, are you there?" she testified she said.
The timing of the phone call is key to the prosecution's timeline of when Murray realized his famous patient was dying. Based on testimony so far, the moment came about 11:57 p.m.
The coroner concluded Jackson died from "acute propofol intoxication," in combination with "the contributory affects of the benzodiazepines," Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said.
Murray acknowledged to investigators that he gave Jackson propofol, a powerful anesthetic used for surgery, and benzodiazepines to help him sleep in the hours before his death, the prosecutor said.
Although Jackson was likely dead on arrival at the hospital, emergency room doctors continued resuscitation efforts for more than an hour, two UCLA doctors testified Thursday.
Dr. Thao Nguyen said Murray "appeared devastated" as she spoke to him in the emergency room.
"He asked me not to give up easily and try my best to save the patient," Nguyen testified.
But the doctor in charge testified Jackson was dead when the ambulance pulled up to the emergency room door at 1:13 p.m.
"The patient had no signs of life," Dr. Richelle Cooper testified.
After an hour of frantic efforts to restart Jackson's heart, the UCLA doctors made a deal with Murray, Nguyen said.
A balloon pump would be placed into Jackson's aorta in an effort to increase the oxygen supply and decrease the demands on the heart, Nguyen said.
They agreed to the last-ditch effort with the "understanding with Dr. Murray that if this should fail we will call it," Nguyen said. "Unfortunately, it did not help revive the patient."
Cooper declared Jackson dead at 2:26 p.m.
The prosecution contends that Murray misled the doctors about what might have caused Jackson to stop breathing -- information that might have helped them revive the singer.
"Dr. Murray reported the patient had been in his usual state of health, not ill, but working very hard, and he thought he may be dehydrated," Cooper said.
Both doctors said Murray told them about one benzodiazepine, Lorazepam, that he gave Jackson, but he said nothing about the propofol or other benzodiazepines he later told investigators about.
"He said that the patient had been preparing for a tour in England and had been very tired and had some difficulty sleeping and had some medications for sleep," Nguyen said.
Prosecutors presented phone records Thursday that suggest Murray was talking on his cell phone almost nonstop for the 45 minutes leading up to when he realized Jackson was not breathing.
**********************************************************************
Why do doctors experienced a major medical center like UCLA would try to resurrect a dead patient for at 2 hours? They did not consider the possibility of brain death?
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Friday, January 7, 2011
Dr. Conrad Murray Prelim: Day 4 Part II
This is an unedited, DRAFT entry. I've posted this without edit to give you news as quickly as possible, so please understand there are typos and could be some information that is not as clear as the MSM reports, or 100% accurate. ~ Sprocket
#15 Elissa Fleak
Where employed LA Co. Coroner Investigator. Performs Investigations at scenes. Notify family Write reports for pathologists. Assist investigation. 8 years (in job).
Working in that capacity in June 2009
Learned of the death of entertainer MJ? Yes I did.
In response to learning that information did you respond to UCLA medical center?
What time did you respond. Can I check my notes? Yes. I arrived at hospital at 17:20 hours.
At UCLA ? Yes 5 :20 pm? correct.
At your arrival to UCLA did you make physical observations of the decadent?
To perform an external body examination. Anything I could infer, to the cause of death, for my report?
Looking for wounds, knife wounds? Yes.
Did not find anything at that time.
Obtained 4 vials of blood from UCLA staff labeled Gershwin (gives label #)? Yes. Correct.
Were those vials of blood logged into the coroners office? Yes.
Was to preserve them ? Yes for toxicology purposes.
On that date did you respond to that location of 100 N Carolwood. LA Yes. After ER room, I went to the house. To observe the scene investigation.
She specifically did an investigation of that bedroom area.
Exhibit on the ELMO. Identified where she was told the decedent was before taken to the hospital. Photo of the two tables, night stands, she identifies them.
People’s 9. Recognize? Yes. the diagram of the second floor of the house. Depicts the bedroom you just described? Yes.
At this point did you begin taking photographs and documenting some of the items you found relevant to pertaining to cause of death.
Yes.
Begin with any prescription . Yes, I began with several pill bottles on the night stand rigt next to the bed.
Did you document inventory. yes I did.
documented on a coroners 3A form Yes I did.
Do you remember what perscirptions you recovered? Yes I do.
What did you recover? flomax clonazapan, diazapam, lorazapam, tomazapam, trazadone tiziaandine.
Also collected several pill bottles, tubes of lotion. Hydrocodone. tube of lidocane lotion. That was it on the night stand.
How about benequin. Yes. There was benequin. Lotion in a tube? Yes it was.
Did you document who prescribed? of the diazapam Dr. M
flomax Murray
lotion of lidocane Murray
mirazapam Murray
tomazapam Murray
flonazapam Metzger
Trizadone Metzget
(last one) Dr. Klein.
Photos of a night stand, close up of table next to night stand,
Do you see the two separate tables. photo.
Describes another photo of area where prescription bottles were.
in a basket in the lower shelf of one of the tables. And on other areas of the table.
Tube of lidocaine lotion on table. There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground as well, next to the bed.
The plunger and the top part of the syringe. (to which you would attach a needle) Yes.
New photos of syringes, of oxygen tank, other items.
Identifying photos with more items IV bag with connected tubing.
Blue “ambu” bag. goes to a nasal cannula. I did describe it as a “broken” syringe because the two pieces are separated from each other. I should have ...they’re not broken.
Syringe on the table, needle on the floor, they may have been together they may not have been. correct.
Was there also an IV stand....
I think someone was knocking at door....bailiff got up.
If you were facing at the bed, at the foot of the bed at the head of the bed it would be to your right? Yes. (IV stand)
I’m starting to yawn. I got less than four hours of sleep last night. It’s going to be a long two hours now.
Showing her photos of nightstand and IV stand and IV kit attached. Yes. Describes where everything is. It’s a saline bag.
In addition to observations of what you described. Did you locate a ju that appears to be a jug of urine. there was a chair behind and to the left of you that had a bottle of urine and several urine pads. Peoples 35.
Identifies the items in the photo.
Medical type container for holding urine.? correct
Recovered an open box of disposable hypodermic needles? Yes. It was on the two tables as well. Recovered IV catheters? Yes. Is it all documented in your form? Yes it is.
Recovered an empty vial of propofol and tomazinil?? Between the two night stands
More photographs presented.
Was this an empty full, partially full bottle of propofol? It was empty.
Verifies where the propofol vial was oo the floor.
200 mg bottle of propofol? Yes.
Now did you return to the location of 100 N Carolwood June 29th 2009? Yes continued your investigation? Yes.
Photos for clarification. Describe if you well, if you would walk from this area, bedroom 2 closed.
It’s an attached room lined with wooden closets lined with wood. About the size of a regular room? Yes.
She went into this closet area. recovered items that were logged into evidence?
Was that logged (the syringes) as medical evidence #1? yes.
Describes how items were logged into evidence and the numbers given.
People’s 39, 40, 41, 42 43 44 45 photos.
Ppl 39. This is the closet area. Wooden cabinet area. Shows evidence that she collected on 29th. Showing ppls 40 close up of same items. Some bags as well as some plastic bags containing items. Did you remove those items from that cabinet and inventory them on that day? Yes I did.
Is this a photo of some of those items after being laid out on a table.
Yes it is.
Describe
1 black square bag with a zipper. recovered from cabinet area.
1 dark blue bag with a zipper with Costco on the outside.
light blue and brown colored bag. With a zipper with baby essentials bag .
Misc. medical supplies
As well as creams? Yes bag full of bedoquin lotions. Yes, those are bottles, tubes of lotions.
Did you empty and inventory the contents of these items? Yes I did.
This box, a black pressure cuff?
bottles? three bottles of lidocaine. vials. of lidocaine.
Check notes to remember if the bottles were full or not. 2 were empty and one of them had some liquid in it. All three of them had been opened.
They were 30 mil bottles.
Large dark blue Costco bag.
Large blue Costco bag.
Did you find saline bag that had been apparently cut open?
Yes I did.
Find anything in that saline bag?
A bottle of propofol inside that cut open bag.
Photo shown.Yes, (that’s what she found)
Can you describe what I’m showing can you describe?
It’s a slit in the bag.
Did you take this photograph..That was the propofol bottle that was inside the IV bag?
Yes.
In addition the IV bag with the slit in and the100 mg propofol you mentioned what else did you find. 20 ml bottle of propofol bottle.
back to 100 ml bottle It was open and had liquid in it.
20ml open with liquid in it.
10 mi morazapam bottle open with liquid in it.
2 bottles of midazalom 10 ml both open both had liquid in them.
Was there any other items in there? bloody piece of gauze A bag of miscelaneous packaging medical packaging and finger pulse monitor.
Also did same inventory of the light blue and brown baby essentials bag.
2 100ml bottles of propofol
2 20 ml bottles of propolf unopened
(3?) bottles of 20
3 20 ml bottles of lidocaine opened.
1 30 mil bottle of lido unopened
20 ml bottle of diazolam opened
I can’t keep up. more unopened. 5 mi dia? opened.
1 4ml ? opened
1 4ml of diazopam unopened.
Where these other items.
Red pill bottle with no label that contained 14 caples turend out ot be emphederine. Over the counter night drops.
Five bus cards of Dr. Murray.
and IV clamp
blue strip of rubber.
Recognized the rubber as used for a tourniquet.
n total, looking at contents of both bags, is accurate to say, there were 11 bottles of propofol? correct
In addition to the one empty bottle on the floor of propofol there were a total of 12 bottles of propofol. is it true there were six bottles of lidocaine? I’d have to count.
Could you please? Six correct. In addition to the lidocaine lotion. Correct.
Another photo exhibit. Photo of some of the contents of the baby’s essentials bag.
Describes the items that were all in the photo...medicines.
Nothing further.
CROSS FLANAGAN.
You made a search of the bedroom on 25th in the evening? Yes. And that’s where you obtained all of the photos and the bed and the surrounding the bed.
Some were taken on the 29th.
I was told by detectives additional information medical evidence at the house.
They told you Dr. Murray told them a location and what they had?
Did they tell you the interview that they had was from Dr. Murray? Yes Obj sust stricken.
did they tell you what information that had that you obj on? obj sust
Why did you go back on the 29th. I was told there was additional evidence at the house.
detective smith. did he tell you what there was? no.
Did he tell you where to look? Yes. In that closet room.
Had you looked in that room ion the 25th. I did not. I may have glanced in the room but I did not search it.
So you went back looking for evidence that detective smith said would be there. Yes.
Did you search any of the other items. any of the other drawers/ yes.
Was all of the stuff that you found that you took int your custody, was all in that one little are, (lists the bag)
Those three bags were found in that cabinet yes.
When you wen through and searched all the drawers and cabinets in that room, did you ever find a trash bag?
What type of trash bag?
Like a grocery trash bag? No
In the plastic bag, there was something that was crumpled up...
Discussion about bag, and biggies.
It was clear plastic bag about a gallon. There was no zipper, it was just open at the top.
There was clumped up plastics, like disposable syringes, thacaging surrounding syringes, tissues, crumpled up.
Like anything that had biological material on it?
(missed answered) I’m almost falling asleep.
It was in the Costco plastic bag, but I don’t remember specifically if it was crumpled up.
Questions now about the IV bag with the propofol bottle in it. Questioning her about how much was left in the bottle. She didn’t inventory for amount any bottles that were opened.
Notes printed, residual. She means the bag was fingerprinted. She doesn’t remember how many bottles were full or less full, she didn’t document that at the time.
You fingerprinted? I didn’t fingerprint.
Notes mean, the bottle was open, it had liquid in it and it was fingerprinted.
At this time, I believe it was possible to be fingerprinted. We at not fingerprinted at that time when I wrote my notes.
You didn’t use the term positive for liquid you just have residual. “In my mind it means the same thing. It was just how I was taking notes.
The black square bags. One things you have listed, it’s crossed out. It ‘s just a number 2. the first item was the firs bag. ??? I’m not getting this.
I don’t know why I crossed that number out.
2 vials... Empty means there was on liquid in it that I could see.
Clarifies her notes how she listed the items.
The Costco bag was a mixture of of partially used and full bottles? Did they all have liquid in them? Yes. Some were partially used? Correct.
The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”
Did it have liquid in it? Yes.
Did you have it fineger printed? I don’t remember.
This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?
half way from the tubing there was a clamp and that clamp had a syringe in it.
The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liqued in the syringe?
Was the plunger completely depressed? I don’t remember exactly where it was.
Was there residue? I don’t remember?
Was there more tubing below that IV port? yes.
Did that tubing have liquid in it? I don’t remember?
Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? yes.
Was that clear? Yes
Was the IV bag clear? Yes.
Did it have a milky appearance to it? It was clear.
When you went back on the 29th, was this the only thing you collected from the bedroom? yes.
????
One of the items, I think this bag, fingerprint dust, the only you remember is from the IV bag itself? Yes.
Rember that the IV bag had about 1/2 to 3/4 full when it was hanging.
You were on the 25th, and you found quite a few things. Can I have the photographs?
The red highlighted portion is NOT in the autopsy report. E. Fleak does not report finding this IV bag with a slit in it and a propofol bottle inside on either visit to the Carolwood home (June 25 & June 29). There is no IV stand as having been reported found in E. Fleaks inventory of items found in the Autopsy Report.
This is how they are suggesting that the propofol was administered to Michael. Yet why isn't it documented in the autopsy report, like everything else? TMZ previously reported about a propofol bottle being ripped open at the top and infused but nothing like this has ever appeared before.
It appears that the items have not been fingerprinted (except one of the IV Bags).
Why not? Wouldn't it be part of the evidence collection to fingerprint these items?
None of the bottles found contents were tested nor were the amounts in any bottles recorded. This is really sloppy.
This is also the second witness of the day who could not "recall" or "remember"(Nicole Alvarez being the other). Who isn't going to remember the events that they took part in regarding the death of the most famous musician in the world, the king of pop.
This really is the greatest show on earth of ridiculous and ineptness I have heard. I can not fathom how if Michael really is dead that this would be considered an in-depth and complete investigation. I can't stop shaking my head as I read these reports from inside the court room. Just simply unbelievable!
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Why do doctors experienced a major medical center like UCLA would try to resurrect a dead patient for at 2 hours? They did not consider the possibility of brain death?
UCLA physicians have had previous success with reviving patients who were clinically dead; one, a female who was deceased for two hours.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529823,00.html
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Did you find saline bag that had been apparently cut open?
Yes I did.
Find anything in that saline bag?
A bottle of propofol inside that cut open bag.
Photo shown.Yes, (that’s what she found)
Can you describe what I’m showing can you describe?
It’s a slit in the bag.
Did you take this photograph..That was the propofol bottle that was inside the IV bag?
Yes.
The red highlighted portion is NOT in the autopsy report. E. Fleak does not report finding this IV bag with a slit in it and a propofol bottle inside on either visit to the Carolwood home (June 25 & June 29). There is no IV stand as having been reported found in E. Fleaks inventory of items found in the Autopsy Report.
This is how they are suggesting that the propofol was administered to Michael. Yet why isn't it documented in the autopsy report, like everything else? TMZ previously reported about a propofol bottle being ripped open at the top and infused but nothing like this has ever appeared before.
Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?
3/1/2010 11:56 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson received the fatal dose of Propofol through an IV in his leg, and law enforcement believes Dr. Conrad Murray may have tried covering it up ... this according to law enforcement sources and an anesthesiologist who reviewed the case.
Dr. Murray told cops he administered only a very small amount of Propofol -- 2.5ml shortly before Jackson died. But Dr. John Dombrowski, a noted anesthesiologist and member of the board of the American Society of Anesthesiologists who reviewed the file, tells TMZ that 2.5ml couldn't put Jackson to sleep, much less kill him. Indeed, the Coroner's report notes the level of Propofol found in Jackson's body was equivalent to that found during "general anesthesia for major surgery."
A small, empty, 20ml bottle of Propofol was found in the bedroom, but there was a secret compartment in a nearby closet that could be the key to the prosecution's case. Several days after Jackson's death, law enforcement found numerous bottles of Propofol in that closet, including a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper. The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.
Dr. Dombrowski says if a spike is used to connect the bottle directly to the IV tube, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol -- otherwise, the patient could easily OD. There was no infusion pump found in Jackson's home.
Dr. Dombrowski and law enforcement sources believe Dr. Murray may have connected the 100ml bottle of Propofol to the tube, and then either tried regulating the flow by eyeballing it or just letting it flow by itself ... and Dr. Dombrowski calls either scenario "reckless." Remember, Dr. Murray himself told detectives at one point he walked out of Jackson's room to go to the bathroom.
If Dr. Murray did indeed attach the 100ml bottle to the tube and the contents emptied into Jackson's system, that would be 40 times more Propofol than Dr. Murray said he administered.
There is no explanation for the empty bottle of Propofol in the hidden compartment.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/01/coverup-michael-jackson-death-propofol-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-iv/
As I previously posted E. Fleak does not mention this second IV bag being found in her Inventory in the AR. No Spike is mentioned in the AR nor a bottle with a tear in the stopper. No bottle inside an IV bag is mentioned in E. Fleak's inventory either. This story seems to keep changing.
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Thank you!!!
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Serenitys_Dream wrote: It appears that the items have not been fingerprinted (except one of the IV Bags).
Why not? Wouldn't it be part of the evidence collection to fingerprint these items?
If they do it, probably to find the fingerprints of La Toya :lol:
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UPDATE
Elissa Fleak-brief summary
She arrived at the scene to conduct a scene investigation and to begin with several bottles found on the night stand next to the bed.
Fleak found prescriptions for flomax clonazapan, diazapam, lorazapam, tomazapam, trazadone tiziaandine. Hydrocodone, lidocane, and benequin
Fleak documented who had prescribed these prescriptions, most of which are by Murray.
"of the diazapam, Mflomax lotion of lidocane mirazapam tomazapam flonazapam Metzger=Murray... .Trizadone Metzget(last one) Dr. Klein."
Fleak obtained 4 vials of blood from ucla staff labeled Gershwin which, were logged into the coroners office to perserve them for toxicology purposes
She arrived at UCA at 17.20pm in order to perform external body examination.
There were images syringes, of oxygen tank, iv stand and other items at Carolwood.
There was also an empty bottle of propofol on the floor and the volume of the bottle were 200ml.
There was bag full of bedoquin lotions, three bottles of lidocaine (2 of which were opened and the third contained some liquid inside) all three bottles had been opened. The saline bag was slit open with a bottle of propofol inside.Along with the IV bag and 100 mg propofol, 20ml of propofol was also found. It was open with liquid in it just as the 100 mg propofol.
Furthermore, a 10ml morazapam bottle open with liquid in it.2 bottles of midazalom 10 ml both open both had liquid in them.
Lastly other items in this box were, 10 mg morazapam bottle open with liquid in it.2 bottles of midazalom 10 ml both open had liquid in them.
In a light blue & brown bag there were 2 100ml bottles of propofol 2 20 ml bottles of propofol unopened, bottles of 203 20 ml bottles of lidocaine opened.
1 30ml bottle of lido unopened 20ml bottleof diazolam opened more unopened bottles mil diaazopam opened. 1 4ml bottle opened 1 4ml of diazopam unopened.
The blue strip of rubber was recognized as rubber as used for a tournequet.
In total in the contents of the bags there were 11 bottles of propofol and including the bottle of propofol on the floor there were 12 bottles of propofol. There were 6 bottles lidocaine, in addition to the lidocaine lotion.
Most of the images oh the items which were found at the scene were taken on the 25th June also some were taken on 29th June.
Other items included; Red pill bottle with no label that contained 14 caples turned out to be emphederine. Over the counter night drops.
Five bus cards of Dr. Murray. and IV clamp blue strip of rubber.
Fleak was told that were additional evidence at the house and was therefore sent back by Dectective Smith to investigate further. The three bags were in the cabinet when Fleak went back to check that room. There was a plastic bag which contained
clumpled up plastics, like disposable syringes, thacaging surrounding syringes, tissues, crumpled up.
The next set of questions were about the IV bag with the propofol bottle inside it and how much was left in the bottle.She did no inventory for the amount of bottles which were opened.One of the bags was a mixture of partially used and full bottles containing liquid in them.
There was liquid in the IV bag but Fleak did not remember whether it was fingerprinted. (LOL well done...)
When asked about the if the bag was clear she said 'yes' it was and still said the bag was clear when asked if there was a milky appearance to it.
Also
Brian Oxman is outside the court saying Michael is a drug addict and claiming Michael's brain had swelling which was not in the autopsy.(on the real one apparently)
Causing a bit of drama^
That was all a bit pointless as I see S_D has already done it
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Will we now return to hear about Michael's brain?
This is a great torture! I hope we get to the truth, whatever it is.
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Brian Oxman is outside the court saying Michael is a drug addict and claiming Michael's brain had swelling which was not in the autopsy
The AR on TMZ does report brain swelling on pages 26 - 28
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0208_mj_case_report_wm.pdf
So unless this isn't the AR then there was brain swelling but I researched that too and could find no link to brain swelling and drug addiction. It's all in the videos I made about the AR when it originally came out. Unless someone with a medical degree can clear that up, I never understood what Oxman was on about.
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Aren't there about 3 versions of an AR floating around though?Who knows which one he is on about.Why is even there,he is standing outside,as he clearly never got there in time after lunch when it went back into session.
If any brain swelling was present in any body that day,in relation to this case...it was from lack of oxygen to the brain as a result of not having immidiate resuss(which I mentioned in an earlier post) there is a max limit of minutes,not many before it is too late and even if you have a heartbeat,your brain will not regain functional use..you'd be brain dead.It won't have any connection to drugs that I am aware of
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Now someone is tweeting "Murray slit the IV bag to hide the propofol bottle which was inside." which doesn't make sense because IV Bags are clear or opaque. You can see what is inside them :roll:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zN6P3WMiCXg/RyqlU0__3hI/AAAAAAAAACQ/r9FvJSyASUg/s640/DSCF0013.JPG)
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Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
Judges actors?! I would like to believe it ....... but come on, this is too much.....not even Michael Jackson can't do it..... and I wish to be wrong
Ever seen The people vs Larry Flint, A Time to Kill, or any other movie or series that had judges and/or lawyers in it? Now combine that with Big Brother and Punk'd and you have something new, something innovating that has never been done before. Make an educational documentary of it and break every record ever made and in the meanwhile: educate the masses. Add to that some $$ for the State of California that is in great dept to get some bobo's on board, and millions of $$$ coming in while shooting this whole thing, that you donate to charity, and you have a masterpiece with Michael Jackson written on it. If you think that that is not legally possible, I would like to see why, because I am still searching for the legal stuff on this as well. What I do remember is that Harvey once said that for the sake of making a documentary, a lot is possible in California. What I do know is that if there are legal possibilities for this, MJ is the only one able to pull it off.
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Serenitys_Dream wrote: It appears that the items have not been fingerprinted (except one of the IV Bags).
Why not? Wouldn't it be part of the evidence collection to fingerprint these items?
If they do it, probably to find the fingerprints of La Toya :lol:
If this evidence has been preserved, they can still fingerprint it now.
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Now someone is tweeting "Murray slit the IV bag to hide the propofol bottle which was inside." which doesn't make sense because IV Bags are clear or opaque. You can see what is inside them :roll:
I don't think it was to 'hide' it,as yes IV bags are clear so what is inside can be seen.There was a picture that Fleak took on June 25th of that saline bag with a bottle inside,so whether it was put there out of stupidity and lack of time,or on purpose is unknown,but a photo has definitley just been shown while she was up on the stand and she said yes,it was sliced open and the propofol bottle was inside.
She is/was getting grilled.
None of any of this prelim makes any sense so I didn't expect this bag with a bottle in to either haha.
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I am the one who mentioned that people in any profession can moonlight on the side as actors etc....and I will not be swayed in my way of thinking by doubters. If someone has given up hope and faith then that is their right but please do not try and change the way I think about it because I'm locked into my own opinions on this matter.
I agree with you. Harvey Levin is a lawyer, played in a movie. Craig Harvey from the LA Coroner's office has been acting too. And let's not forget former California big-boss Arnie the terminator.
@encino_girl, if you have any proof to back up your story which you present as truth, like this not being legally possible or 100% real, please share. I don't think that will be that hard, since it has been your profession. Otherwise don't act like we are all taking it too far, because if it can be done, all possibilities are open, also the 'far-fetched' one that this is all a combination of a Hollywood movie, Big Brother and Punk'd. Oscar material if you ask me. If MJ does something, he does it well.
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I started to look back at the articles that came out shortly after Michael's death because I didn't read everything reported by the media during that time frame and I have only read at a minimum the info coming out after I found this forum. I was catching up because I hadn't read enough I believe because while I was doing a review the Coroner's name caught my eye of who he is; and the trial he was connected to before. 8-) He is also called a star witness.
There is alot of info coming out now that seems familiar (like I've read it before) but also alot I have never read before. So the search for dots for me started with the similarities to OJ Simpson's case. Just look at the pic of Murray and then below the pic of OJ. hmmm That is not the only similarities. Read the relevant info in the dailymail article below. Very interesting the things that were said back then. 8-)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-j ... has-begun/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-autopsy-has-begun/)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/06/26/0626_mj_sathya_bn_15-copy-1.jpg)
Michael Jackson's Autopsy Has Begun
6/26/2009 7:07 AM PDT by TMZ
The Los Angeles County Coroner has started the autopsy on Michael Jackson.
Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran is performing the autopsy. The Dr. was a star witness in the O.J. Simpson case.
UPDATE: We're told some members of the Jackson family are headed to the coroner's office.
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(http://www.polls.newsvine.com/_vine/images/users/nws/kurt-schlosser/5763135.jpg)
Dr. Conrad Murray during an arraignment in Los Angeles in February 2010.
Jackson family believes Dr. Conrad Murray should face murder charges
Mark Boster / EPA file
The preliminary hearing for Michael Jackson's doctor, Conrad Murray, is set to begin in Los Angeles Tuesday, but it won't indicate the beginning of any sort of closure for the Jackson family. The family believes that Murray, who is facing involuntary manslaughter charges, should be dealing with much more severe charges.
"They believe that Murray should be facing murder charges," a source in close contact with the Jackson family said. "They have never agreed with the manslaughter accusation and certainly not involuntary manslaughter."
The hearings this week -- expected to last approximately eight court days -- will determine whether there is evidence enough to require Murray to stand trial on the charges.
http://scoop.todayshow.com/_news/2011/0 ... er-charges (http://scoop.todayshow.com/_news/2011/01/04/5762846-jackson-family-believes-dr-conrad-murray-should-face-murder-charges)
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As Michael Jackson's doctor Conrad Murray faces a homicide trial, evidence grows the drug-addled singer was the only one to blame
By David Jones
Last updated at 1:09 PM on 29th August 2009
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-062BDDD9000005DC-628_233x317.jpg)
Fall guy: Criminal charges are likely to be filed against Dr Conrad Murray, who was with the pop star when he died
The circus will be staged in the same vast, unprepossessing venue — the 21-storey concrete-and-glass superior court building in downtown Los Angeles.
Perhaps it will even take place in the same airless room, and before the same punctilious little Japanese-American judge.
Since technology has moved on apace during the past 14 years, the only difference this time will be that the watching world will have more instantaneous access to the proceedings, with Twitter and YouTube relaying every twist and turn, as well as live TV.
Back in 1995, when the O.J. Simpson murder trial held tens of millions spellbound, the pundits said we would never witness another court case like it.
On the celebrity-obsessed West Coast of America, however, sensations and superlatives exist only to be surpassed — and so the scene is set for the latest ‘trial of the century’: the State of California versus Michael Jackson’s doctors.
The hoopla could begin any day now, for U.S. legal experts are sure it is only a matter of time before the first defendant is charged. He is the singer’s personal physician, Dr Conrad Murray, the 56-year-old Grenada-born cardiologist who was at Jackson’s bedside on the morning he died, and having admitted that he pumped him with a cocktail of drugs — including a powerful anaesthetic normally used only in hospitals — is clearly the prosecution’s prime target.
He will probably be accused of homicide by involuntary manslaughter, at the very least; an offence which carries a maximum jail sentence of four years.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-0588B9A8000005DC-39_468x286.jpg)
Michael Jackson, pictured while rehearsing for his planned London shows, had been a junkie for many years
But as a newly-released police affidavit, submitted in support of a search warrant application, revealed this week, Murray is by no means the only well-heeled Hollywood specialist for whom the courtroom appears to beckon.
Jackson’s medical retinue was sufficient to staff a cottage hospital, and other names mentioned in the damning court document — seen in its entirety by the Daily Mail — include his dermatologist, Dr Arnold Klein, long-time Jackson family GP Dr Allan Metzger, plastic surgeon Dr Larry Koplin, anaesthetists Dr David Adams and Dr Randy Rosen, and nurse practitioner Cherilyn Lee.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/28/article-0-00E37EB600000190-856_233x314.jpg)
A trial over Michael Jackson's death would be even more of a circus than the O.J. Simpson murder trial of 1995
At this stage, it is not clear which — if any — of these elite medical gurus (all of whom fiercely deny any wrongdoing) might join Murray in the dock.
Yet the investigating detectives clearly suspect they have something to hide. They have applied for permission to search their offices, computers, professional records, and even their exclusive homes and sleek limousines, in an attempt to ascertain whether they illegally supplied Jackson with prescription drugs, and thereby ‘contributed to his death’.
For the global audience, the cast of likely prosecution witnesses promises to be no less fascinating. And if the toe-curling memorial service in the Staples Center is anything to go by, we can count on suitably tearful and melodramatic cameos from Jackson’s parents, Katherine and Joe, and his siblings.
The star’s most intimate secrets will inevitably be laid bare by his inner circle, including personal assistant Michael Amir Williams Muhammad, and the phalanx of devout Muslims with whom he had surrounded himself in his final days at his Holmby Hills mansion.
And we will hear for the first time from Alberto Alvarez, the young Mexican security guard who was dispatched to Jackson’s quarters as he lay dying (or dead?) and made that extraordinarily courteous and unflappable 911 call.
Like many of the key players in this case, Jackson’s favourite ‘heavy’ has since gone to ground. However, when I tracked him down, a few days after the death, he told me pointedly that he had seen something of crucial importance to the police investigation.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-05E4FCF9000005DC-572_233x299.jpg)
Police have been told that Prince Michael Jackson I, pictured at right with his sister Paris and brother Prince Michael Jackson II at their father's memorial service, was present during the singer's last moments
Now we will find out what he meant. But the most compelling testimony may come from Jackson’s eldest son, Prince. For, bizarrely, it is claimed at least one Jackson staff member apparently told the police that Murray summoned the 12-year-old to watch his futile attempts to revive him by CPR, something Murray strenuously denies.
The doctor insists Prince was not present during his father’s last moments. Whatever the truth, however, if and when Jackson’s son mounts the witness stand, it will surely make more prurient viewing than anything we saw in the OJ trial.
As millions of dollars of public money are poured into the investigation, a growing number of American onlookers are beginning to question the purpose of it all.
If, as the police believe, Jackson’s sordid death really was caused, or hastened, by ‘enablers’ among his high-powered medical team, then few would dispute that they should answer for their grasping and unethical behaviour.
By the same token, the abuse of prescription drugs has reached near epidemic proportions in the U.S. and claims countless lives each year.
This great unspoken vice is facilitated by dozens of greedy doctors and drugstore owners, but seldom is anyone brought to account. But this is the King of Pop and for him different rules apply.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-05A10CB4000005DC-404_468x323.jpg)
Michael Jackson's casket on display during his memorial service at the Staples Center in Los Angeles
Then there is Jackson himself. Thumbing through the police affidavit, it becomes clear that he had been a hardened and devious junkie for many years. His body resembled a pin-cushion with needle-marks everywhere — even between his toes — and he seems to have known as much about chemicals as choreography.
He described the anaesthetic he used nightly to put him to sleep as his ‘milk’. He had also invented an entire cast of aliases to moonwalk into his local chemist’s and collect his heavy-duty prescriptions. Fernand Diaz, Peter Madonie, Omar Arnold and Josephine Baker were just some of the bizarre names he used.
This being the case, is it really right to persecute one doctor for his death? As Miranda Sevcik, the spokesman for Dr Murray’s legal team, told me this week: ‘He is being made the convenient scapegoat here. Unfortunately, there’s only one person to blame for Michael Jackson’s death — and he is no longer with us.’
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-028545FD0000044D-981_233x323.jpg)
In a carbon copy of the Michael Jackson case, Elvis Presley's doctor was blamed for the death of the first "King"
If and when Murray is charged, his defence will be that he had been Jackson’s doctor for only a few weeks and was trying to wean him off dangerous drugs — and particularly propofol, the anaesthetic which the corner believes killed him.
This is precisely the claim that was made by Elvis Presley’s ‘tame’ doctor, George Nichopoulos, when he faced trial for criminally over-prescribing drugs to the first ‘King’, whose death was almost a carbon-copy of Michael Jackson’s.
Blamed and hounded in much the same way as Dr Murray (who now requires round-the-clock protection), ‘Dr Nick’ survived an outraged Elvis fan’s assassination attempt while watching a football game, but was acquitted by a Memphis jury and still protests his innocence.
However, his medical licence was subsequently suspended and his career ruined so thoroughly that he took a job with a mail delivery company. Now 82 and writing a book about his experiences, he told me: ‘It cost me my practice and ruined my life, and maybe Dr Murray will have the same happen to him.
‘We don’t yet know all the facts of this case, but I doubt this is all about one doctor — there were probably a whole bunch of them down the years. Anyway, people like Elvis and Michael Jackson will always find someone to give them what they want.’
Unsurprisingly, the Jackson family take a very different view. Encamped in their mansion in Encino, California, they are delighted that the police are pursuing the case with such vigour, and rubbing their hands at the prospect of a huge show trial.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-059E565F000005DC-130_233x309.jpg)
La Toya Jackson, pictured arriving at the Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Los Angeles on July 6, says she is looking forward to the day justice is served
This much was evident this week, when the affidavit — describing in minute-by-minute detail how Dr Murray drip-fed the anaesthetic and a cocktail of other drugs to Jackson — was released.
‘I’m thankful to the investigators for uncovering the truth to the world,’ his 53-year-old sister, La Toya, pronounced triumphantly. ‘I look forward to the day justice will be served to all the parties involved in my brother’s homicide.’
Perhaps so, but even the least cynical observer might note that if Jackson is proved to have been the victim of homicide, his relatives stand to gain a good deal more than mere closure.
With his body still in deep freeze (the funeral is finally expected to take place at Forest Lawn cemetery next Wednesday) they and the sharp-suited attorneys who control his estate are cashing in on his name with what looks like indecent haste.
In October, London’s O2 Arena will host a display of Jackson’s mothballed memorabilia; there are plans for a lavish tribute concert in Vienna next year and the release of a film documenting his final rehearsals for the 50 London shows that never were; and a £90 coffee table book will be published, complete with photographs and private letters.
Yet this is only the beginning. Within hours of Jackson’s body being removed, his family hoovered up everything they could get from his rented house, including, it is said, the lyrics and master-tapes for dozens of previously unheard songs.
In the 50 days following his death, Jackson’s estate netted a cool £60 million, an amount expected to double by the year’s end. But if these new Jackson records are released, that amount will multiply many times.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-006FA27400000578-523_468x301.jpg)
The Neverland Ranch, which Jackson was desperate to sell, will be reopened as the new Graceland
And then, of course, there is Neverland, the theme-park folly which Jackson came to despise, and was desperate to sell, because it was the place where he was said to have sexually abused children.
All this will doubtlessly be forgotten when it reopens as a new Graceland, raking billions into the estate, of which Jackson’s mother, Katherine, has applied to be made a co-executor. It will surely one day fall under the family’s full control.
How much more marketable — and how much more alluring — the legend of Michael Jackson will be, if it transpires he was not responsible for his own squalid demise.
He could be portrayed as a vulnerable genius, callously preyed upon by his greedy quack. It is a point that has been noted by at least one former Jackson associate — a member of the legal team that successfully defended him during his 2005 trial on child sex charges.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-05A13C82000005DC-574_468x286.jpg)
The Jackson family - Rebbie, Janet, Randy, Tito, Marlon, Jackie and Jermaine, pictured at Michael's public memorial service - has been accused of deserting the star in his hour of need
At that time, though his stake in The Beatles’ back catalogue made him very wealthy on paper, Jackson — whose drug habit cost him about £30,000 a month and who frittered money away on a whim — was down to his last £400,000.
And with his reputation at an all-time low and his health failing, there seemed little prospect of him ever again becoming his family’s prized cash-cow, a role he had fulfilled from his earliest years.
To fight the paedophile case, he desperately needed help to pay his legal bills and went to his siblings, cap-in-hand. ‘Not one of them lifted a finger to help him then,’ the source told me this week.
‘Michael just wanted about $150,000 (£100,000) towards his legal costs, but not one of them came forward to help him. None of the brothers, and not Janet, who I’m sure could have afforded it.
‘The only member of his family who was close to Michael then was his mother, Katherine. She was concerned for him and seemed very genuine. It has sickened me to see all the brothers and sisters on television, crying over Michael.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/29/article-1209793-03C22A22000005DC-353_233x423.jpg)
Michael Jackson's estate made £60 million in the 50 days following his death
‘They weren’t there for him when he most needed them. They just leeched off him when times were good.’
Now, he infers, they are leeching off him again. It is a damning indictment, but if it is true they are hardly alone. In recent days, all manner of dubious characters have come out of the woodwork in search of vicarious fame — and money — giving the unedifying Jackson circus a momentum which now seems unstoppable and will doubtless roll on for years.
Among the most questionable are the doctor from Luton who claims Jackson (whom many believe to have died a frigid virgin) ‘begged’ her to have his babies, and the dermatologist’s assistant who says they had a gay fling.
Then, of course, there is Mark Lester, once the child star of the film musical Oliver! and now an obscure osteopath, who has placed himself back in the spotlight by surmising that he might be the father of Jackson’s children.
This week, a new comedy play — Michael Jackson At The Gates Of Heaven And Hell — opened at the Edinburgh Fringe. A satirical send-up of the hysteria we have witnessed since the singer died, it features John Lennon as the grim reaper, and a host of star-struck angels who vote Jackson ‘the living person they would most like to die’ on a heaven radio phone-in programme.
It ought to sound outlandish, but after all the hype on Planet Jackson in recent weeks it hardly seems out of the ordinary.
We can be sure that the madness will continue all the way to the courthouse steps, and long after Dr Conrad Murray — a fall guy if ever there was one — faces down his accusers.
For in truth this ghastly charade isn’t really about Michael Jackson, or justice. It’s all about creating and perpetuating a Hollywood myth — and keeping the cash registers whirring.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... blame.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209793/As-Michael-Jacksons-doctor-Conrad-Murray-faces-homicide-trial-evidence-grows-drug-addled-singer-blame.html)
Look at the hat LaToya is wearing going to the funeral. I have seen that hat so many times now it must mean something. ;)
Peace
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Real court employees yes, doing their regular jobs like every day, but the lawyers, witnesses, and judges are all actors.
Judges actors?! I would like to believe it ....... but come on, this is too much.....not even Michael Jackson can't do it..... and I wish to be wrong
Yes, Gina. The judges, the lawyers, the police, the coroner, the UCLA staff, everyone in this situation is an actor. We are all actors in this greatest of Michael's shows. We are still in the part of "Liberian Girl" where people are wondering who is directing this whole thing and the people are still waiting for Michael to show up and start the action. Remember in Liberian Girl, how everyone was just going about their own business, relaxing, chatting with one another, etc., and then someone finally noticed that Michael had been there all along, behind the camera? Then Michael said, "OK, eveyrbody, that's a wrap." We're somewhere in the hanging out, chatting, relaxing and in the "When's Michael gonna be here? Where is he?" part of the "script." In fact, the "script" is so loose and free that each of us isn't really following any pre-set lines. We are just living our own lives, doing our own thing, and, of course, waiting for Michael to reappear and confirm to us that everything is alright with him and that this has been a show all along (and an eye-opener). "Keep the Faith." "You Are Not Alone."
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If anybody had a doubt about American justice system, now it is good time and example to see otherwise. Every country's legal system is not ideal. But you can' t say there is no justice at all (in any country). In fact, Michael was acquitted of all charges even though he was prosecuted.
As I said earlier, prosecutor has complaint, fact of death, they have to pursue the case. That is their job. Michael's "death" is not an exception. There is someone died instead, then there is a case for prosection to bring to the court. Did you expect that prosecutor will let it go? But then you would say they don't love Michael and did not prosecute Murrey. That would have never happened. Everything what is now going on is normal. It still does not mean Michael is dead. The option of Michael being in witness protection is weaken. But we have to wait and see.
Justice was done back in 2005, even though the judge had some fishy moments and Sneddon never had any honest moments. Yet he was acquitted, which means in his case, the justice system worked. The big problem was, that he was already condemned even before he ever sat foot in the courtroom. Trial by media. Therefore, even after his acquittal, people STILL saw him as a child molester, even more when the media didn't bother to report his acquittal as big as the case itself, or even completely ignored the verdict. I think that has been a bigger issue than the justice system itself. The prosecution was malicious, the judge fishy, I know, but they weren't able to succeed in their vicious plan to put him behind bars.
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If Murray wants to hide something, so that to leave it in the house? , so that I do not take all those things? leaving the scene of the crime with all the proof :?:
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Excellent recap/comparison im_convinced!!!
I just hope that your amazing work doesn't get quoted in full a lot haha,it's so long!!!but awesome,well done.
There is so much info from the past 2days it is seriously hard work to summerise it.God damn law people,asking all these questions...AND NOT EVEN THE RIGHT ONES
Souza,where is your popcorn cart at?hook me up IV,salted...size large...go.
Oh he hid things,took things out in bags,left things behind in IV bags.....but he left that all important cream out on the side and had to razzle ma tazzle back from UCLA to get it before the media found out about it.He was amazing on June 25th...like roadrunner on crack.
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It's pretty sad when scripted TV shows like CSI do a better job examining evidence than the folks in LA.
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It is also sad/funny-because I think it is hysterical..that there are more facts and evidence floating around this forum than what is floating around in that courtroom.
They could have spent all of 2009 copy and pasting from here.
CRIMINAL MINDS!!!Love that show,Morgan and Reid would have this well figured out by now...Pppffttt.
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I am adding some old material that has been deleted since.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE EVENTS TOOK PLACE AS DESCRIBED.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE PERSON DESCRIBED WAS MJ.
It's a blog entry from a paramedic's wife on June 26, 2009:
CPR VIP: that’s the text message I received from Jeff at 2:38 PM yesterday. I am not going to write the name here because I don’t want search engines to turn it up but I think you know who I mean. As you know, Jeff’s fire station is in Bel Air and they got the emergency call. Jeff said they used everything in their paramedic kits and worked on him for 45 minutes taking turns doing chest compressions. He’s pretty sure he was gone before they got there. They went to UCLA medical center with him and had to stay quite a long time. I could see Jeff’s rescue ambulance- 71’s- on the news at the ER entrance for hours. He finally called me around 7 PM and still couldn’t say much. He was warned that the paparazzi can intercept cellphone calls. Back at his fire station, he was fielding phone calls from TMZ and other celebrity websites looking for information. Of course, he is saying, “No comment.” All of the guys on Jeff’s crew had cellphones with cameras but not one took a photo. That would be a million dollar photo. I asked him what I could write today and he said that he would only be comfortable with this… so that’s all for now. We also lost Farrah Fawcett yesterday and that was a long, hard brave struggle that she fought. I had the Farrah Flip back in the 1970’s… we all did.
This man is said to have texted at 2:38 p.m. "CPR VIP".
This does NOT express any occurance of a death.
The death was communicated by family and media.
2.26pm (10.26pm) - Jackson is officially pronounced dead.
2.35pm (10.35pm) – Fire official tells LA Times that Jackson is in hospital. This is then reported by Associated Press
2.44pm (10.44pm) - TMZ.com breaks news Jackson has died, leading Google to crash.
[/b][/u]And WHY was the paramedic warned about paparazzi's methods? By whom?
Disclosure agreement? Exclusivity contract with TMZ?
Don't forget Michael sitting up on the stretcher when entering UCLA.
[youtube:1h0wcb1d]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCVaaM[/youtube:1h0wcb1d]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCVaaM
And the bodyguards with a person changing cloths?
[youtube:1h0wcb1d]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8[/youtube:1h0wcb1d]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAUnjTt8D8
Indeed an interesting day in court that only thickened the fog - "creamy days". :lol:
That can't be right. TMZ broke the news of Michael's death 6 minutes before he was pronounced dead at UCLA @ 2:20 p.m.
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It is also sad/funny-because I think it is hysterical..that there are more facts and evidence floating around this forum than what is floating around in that courtroom.
They could have spent all of 2009 copy and pasting from here.
CRIMINAL MINDS!!!Love that show,Morgan and Reid would have this well figured out by now...Pppffttt.
I know. They should read the forum, maybe they would learn something!
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Did you find saline bag that had been apparently cut open?
Yes I did.
Find anything in that saline bag?
A bottle of propofol inside that cut open bag.
Photo shown.Yes, (that’s what she found)
Can you describe what I’m showing can you describe?
It’s a slit in the bag.
Did you take this photograph..That was the propofol bottle that was inside the IV bag?
Yes.
The red highlighted portion is NOT in the autopsy report. E. Fleak does not report finding this IV bag with a slit in it and a propofol bottle inside on either visit to the Carolwood home (June 25 & June 29). There is no IV stand as having been reported found in E. Fleaks inventory of items found in the Autopsy Report.
This is how they are suggesting that the propofol was administered to Michael. Yet why isn't it documented in the autopsy report, like everything else? TMZ previously reported about a propofol bottle being ripped open at the top and infused but nothing like this has ever appeared before.
Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?
3/1/2010 11:56 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson received the fatal dose of Propofol through an IV in his leg, and law enforcement believes Dr. Conrad Murray may have tried covering it up ... this according to law enforcement sources and an anesthesiologist who reviewed the case.
Dr. Murray told cops he administered only a very small amount of Propofol -- 2.5ml shortly before Jackson died. But Dr. John Dombrowski, a noted anesthesiologist and member of the board of the American Society of Anesthesiologists who reviewed the file, tells TMZ that 2.5ml couldn't put Jackson to sleep, much less kill him. Indeed, the Coroner's report notes the level of Propofol found in Jackson's body was equivalent to that found during "general anesthesia for major surgery."
A small, empty, 20ml bottle of Propofol was found in the bedroom, but there was a secret compartment in a nearby closet that could be the key to the prosecution's case. Several days after Jackson's death, law enforcement found numerous bottles of Propofol in that closet, including a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper. The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.
Dr. Dombrowski says if a spike is used to connect the bottle directly to the IV tube, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol -- otherwise, the patient could easily OD. There was no infusion pump found in Jackson's home.
Dr. Dombrowski and law enforcement sources believe Dr. Murray may have connected the 100ml bottle of Propofol to the tube, and then either tried regulating the flow by eyeballing it or just letting it flow by itself ... and Dr. Dombrowski calls either scenario "reckless." Remember, Dr. Murray himself told detectives at one point he walked out of Jackson's room to go to the bathroom.
If Dr. Murray did indeed attach the 100ml bottle to the tube and the contents emptied into Jackson's system, that would be 40 times more Propofol than Dr. Murray said he administered.
There is no explanation for the empty bottle of Propofol in the hidden compartment.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/01/coverup-michael-jackson-death-propofol-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-iv/
As I previously posted E. Fleak does not mention this second IV bag being found in her Inventory in the AR. No Spike is mentioned in the AR nor a bottle with a tear in the stopper. No bottle inside an IV bag is mentioned in E. Fleak's inventory either. This story seems to keep changing.
I am expecting the evidence recovered on June 29th to be deemed inadmissible since the family had access to the house and bedroom before that evidence was found. The defense could argue that someone else may have planted it there.
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I am the one who mentioned that people in any profession can moonlight on the side as actors etc....and I will not be swayed in my way of thinking by doubters. If someone has given up hope and faith then that is their right but please do not try and change the way I think about it because I'm locked into my own opinions on this matter.
I agree with you. Harvey Levin is a lawyer, played in a movie. Craig Harvey from the LA Coroner's office has been acting too. And let's not forget former California big-boss Arnie the terminator.
@encino_girl, if you have any proof to back up your story which you present as truth, like this not being legally possible or 100% real, please share. I don't think that will be that hard, since it has been your profession. Otherwise don't act like we are all taking it too far, because if it can be done, all possibilities are open, also the 'far-fetched' one that this is all a combination of a Hollywood movie, Big Brother and Punk'd. Oscar material if you ask me. If MJ does something, he does it well.
I've never once said this is not possible (can happen). I've maintained it's not probable (likely to happen). Huge difference there Souza.
I have always contended this is all real, and will continue to do so based upon my general/prior professional knowledge. As for it having been my profession, the key word is been. For the sake of clarity, I will reiterate my previous statement for you. It has been many, many years since I have been involved in the state of California's justice system. I no longer permanently reside in the state of California, nor do I practice in my previous field any more.
That said, anyone, including a layman, can discern for themselves, by reading the statutes regarding the issues I've mentioned, and after reading said statutes, can deduce for themselves the legal issues and consequences of the acts you (and others) have alleged are presently occurring. So, it seems Google would be of better use than I would to anyone with questions regarding the laws that govern California's courts. I'm certainly not digging out and dusting off old law books, and scanning pages of archaic statutes which have most likely been revised by California's legislature. Interested parties can start by searching 'malicious prosecution' & 'malicious use of process'.
If you wish to believe this is all make believe, and that at the end of the day a director calls,"Cut!", that is your prerogative just as it is mine to believe otherwise. You can go as far with this as you choose, but in the same vein, you have no right to tell me, or anyone else who may believe as I do, that we are wrong either. In the end, we'll all find out if any of us was right. For now, I choose to believe there is a greater & more seriously beneficial underlying purpose to what I believe are valid proceedings than entertainment.
Nefari,
I completely agree that people of any given profession can moonlight as an actor as long as such an activity doesn't interfere (ethically) with their primary profession.
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I am expecting the evidence recovered on June 29th to be deemed inadmissible since the family had access to the house and bedroom before that evidence was found. The defense could argue that someone else may have planted it there.
And the defense would have a very valid argument. I agree, it is possible anything recovered post June 25 will be disallowed. Not only is it possible, it's very probable.
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I am expecting the evidence recovered on June 29th to be deemed inadmissible since the family had access to the house and bedroom before that evidence was found. The defense could argue that someone else may have planted it there.
And the defense would have a very valid argument. I agree, it is possible anything recovered post June 25 will be disallowed. Not only is it possible, it's very probable.
Yes, I agree and was aware of that. I am just pointing out the inconstancies between statements given to police, the AR and current testimony. Many of the things regarding the IV were found by E. Fleak on her second visit on June 29th as was all the evidence in the "bag" and the things found in the closet. The scene was not secured even before that so the evidence collected on June 25th may also be deemed inadmissible. They did not declare it a crime scene and secure it until much later.
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I am expecting the evidence recovered on June 29th to be deemed inadmissible since the family had access to the house and bedroom before that evidence was found. The defense could argue that someone else may have planted it there.
And the defense would have a very valid argument. I agree, it is possible anything recovered post June 25 will be disallowed. Not only is it possible, it's very probable.
Yes, I agree and was aware of that. I am just pointing out the inconstancies between statements given to police, the AR and current testimony. Many of the things regarding the IV were found by E. Fleak on her second visit on June 29th as was all the evidence in the "bag" and the things found in the closet. The scene was not secured even before that so the evidence collected on June 25th may also be deemed inadmissible. They did not declare it a crime scene and secure it until much later.
This may very well end up being a case where the verdict hinges solely upon which side's witnesses are the most credible; however, barring any surprise entrance by Michael himself, IMO, the prosecution has a winnable case.
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@encino_girl
I was reading that if the judge decides that there is enough evidence to go to trial, that a trial date would be set in 6 months to a year from now. Do you know if this is correct?
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@encino_girl
I was reading that if the judge decides that there is enough evidence to go to trial, that a trial date would be set in 6 months to a year from now. Do you know if this is correct?
That seems about right to me, though depending upon the prosecution's court schedule, and the time it takes the defense to gather all of it's evidence, the time it takes for full discovery, seating a jury, etc., it could be longer. So much for a defendant's 6th Amendment right, huh?
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@encino_girl
I was reading that if the judge decides that there is enough evidence to go to trial, that a trial date would be set in 6 months to a year from now. Do you know if this is correct?
That seems about right to me, though depending upon the prosecution's court schedule, and the time it takes the defense to gather all of it's evidence, the time it takes for full discovery, seating a jury, etc., it could be longer. So much for a defendant's 6th Amendment right, huh?
I think most defendants dont want a speedy trial, especially when they are out on bail/bond. If I had to guess I bet it will be longer than 6 months, closer to a year. My husband is working a murder case, not in CA, but still in the US and the defendant was charged in 2009 and they are going to trial in June of this year.
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6 months......hmmmmm. See you in July!
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6 months......hmmmmm. See you in July!
Gosh! I was thinking the same thing! :lol:
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Encino_girl, if you read my post you should have noticed I said EVERY possibility is open, even the one you think is going too far. You are the one saying that that is going too far, I never said yours was. Please don't twist my words every time and stop being so defensive every time. If you don't want to check if it is possible, that's fine. But I do want to know that, because it would shed a completely different light to all of this. If it's NOT possible, then the prelim is real which means there need to be charges against Murray and that way, there is a dead body because without a corpse no manslaughter charge. That would mean we should take a new turn. By only assuming things we will never get to the bottom.
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:ugeek:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40894003/ ... rtainment/ (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40894003/ns/today-entertainment/)
LOS ANGELES, — Prosecutors this week begin offering evidence that Michael Jackson's doctor is responsible for the pop star's death in a case that could hinge on who gave the singer a fatal dose of a powerful drug he used for sleep.
Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's physician in 2009, has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death, and a Los Angeles judge Tuesday starts the preliminary hearing -- largely seen by legal experts as a formality-- to determine if enough evidence exists to bring the physician to a full trial.
..Jackson, one of the best-selling recording artists of all time who generated hits like "Thriller" and "Billie Jean," died of a prescription drug overdose on June 25, 2009, at age 50, after suffering cardiac arrest while in bed at his rented mansion.
Murray has admitted injecting Jackson with the powerful anesthetic propofol, which has been determined to be a key factor in his death. The drug is used mostly in hospital settings, but it was given to Jackson at home as a sleep aid.
Prosecutors hope to paint the doctor, who was hired by a concert promoter to care for Jackson before a series of performances, as a man who was in financial trouble and would irresponsibly give the singer drugs to keep his paycheck.
Murray has pleaded not guilty, and last week defense attorneys indicated they may focus on a mysterious syringe found near Jackson to explore whether someone other than Murray injected the singer with the fatal dose of propofol.
Some experts are skeptical about that possible defense, which is based on the assumption that Jackson, an admitted drug abuser, could have administered the propofol to himself.
."It plays to what people perceive Jackson was about and that he might have done it , but it's hard to see how it occurs without Murray having some role in it," said Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School.
Prelude to a trial?
Last week, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor cleared the way for the defense to test residue from syringes and an intravenous tube used to administer drugs to Jackson.
Following Jackson's death, the Los Angeles County coroner determined that propofol and the sedative lorazepam were the main drugs that caused Jackson's death.
..In their investigation, police and prosecutors focused on Murray and whether he had given Jackson too many drugs when the doctor should have known better.
Evidence in Jackson's death has been outlined in search warrant affidavits, but prosecutors will present more of their case against Murray in the preliminary hearing, which the doctor's attorneys say could last two weeks.
That would be even longer than the one-week preliminary hearing for football great O.J. Simpson's notorious 1995 trial on a charge he murdered his ex-wife, Levenson said. Most preliminary hearings in Los Angeles last a few hours at most.
In the end, the judge in the Murray case is largely expected to order a full trial because the burden of proof on prosecutors is low at a preliminary hearing.
Legal experts also see obstacles to any last-minute plea deal between prosecutors and defense attorneys.
"It sounds to me that this is going to be a trial," said Bennett Gershman, a former New York prosecutor. "There's just too many close factual questions that don't seem like they're going to be resolved by some kind of plea."
Steven Cron, an attorney who teaches at Pepperdine Law School, said Murray's lawyers may pursue a different defense if the case does go beyond the preliminary phase. If that occurs, Cron said testimony of medical experts will be key given that Murray was alone with Jackson in his last waking hours.
"It's going to be a case of dueling experts. Whose expert is more credible and why," he said.
8-)
So the media is speculating and getting advice from other people in the same field or similiar field of Doctors, lawyers (maybe real or not real), the media is getting advice from Tabliod show hosts who pretend to be lawyers and so called experts.
I see the same faces who reported on Michael's trial in 2005. I think there is a blackout to a certain extent. I see a few reports from certain MSM. There is no news of this on my local stations in Portland, OR. There is alot of info on the net from these same media that have real shows on the T.V. yet the reports seem to be just put out on the net.
The people who are paying attention via the net are getting sound bite info of media making up shit. I think this is deliberate. If the info is controlled like via the net less people will find the truth. Less people will find out about all the inconsistances.
The general public is being blocked out. Whatever thought they had about Michael is what they think now. That is why it is highlighted about how people perceive Michael to be. That is also why more things are being said as if it is Michael going on trial again.
Harvey said something very interesting recently. He said that Michael Jackson will go on trial and it will take about three months. Hmmm did Michael's actual trial take 3 months?
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17063)
TMZ live january 5th (delete if already discussed)
start looking at around 7:00
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/05/tmz-live- ... s-answered (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/05/tmz-live-your-questions-answered)
twitter question : how long will MJ trial last?
Harvey answers: this is not the trial just the prelim, 30 witnesses bla bla bla and then the judge will decide if Michael Jackson should stand trial...
The article says that this is just seen largely as a formality by legal advisors. Like this is frivilous and just come on already. :roll:
There is also alot of inaccurate info getting spread like wild fire over the net. It is all getting changed like the game telephone. I believe that some media people are aware of this hoax and they are determined not to be PUNKED so they stay silent and KEEP WATCHING! lol
This is exactly the circus crap from the media during 2005. This is also why T.M. said what he did before the trial started.
Tom Mesereau speaks out on upcoming trial...
viewtopic.php?f=104&t=16965 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=16965)
He says, "The defence lawyers have to do something and what they're gonna try and do is reflect attention away from their client and onto Michael Jackson. The reality is Michael Jackson was not suicidal, he was not self-destructive in the way they're trying to say, and hopefully their defence will not succeed.
"I'm sorry that the defence is going to have to bash Michael Jackson to try and divert attention from their guilty client. The reality is he was a nice, kind, decent individual; he wanted to change the world in a positive away... and unfortunately I think the defence is gonna try and attack his character, and hopefully it will not work."
That was a strategic move. He is very smart. He knows how to muddy the waters also. Payback is a bitch. The contradictions of witness statements is so that it will become so confusing as to cause so much reasonable doubt as to how, who did what, where, why...
So I wonder how many other parallels will come out. A little competative Mike. You just had to have this pre-lim trial go a extra week to beat OJ. lol
This is truly stepping into Michael's world. He has created his surroundings for a very long time and this is no different. He doesn't do things like normal everyday folks. He has to do things this way because it is all he knows and the public and media hadn't allowed him to live a life like an average joe.
Welcome to his world. Make Believe is very possible in a real world.
I also wonder how is it that the same sherrif escort is with Murray. Hmmm Go watch the video on that link and see for yourself the same escorts.
:ugeek:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/07 ... y.hearing/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/07/california.conrad.murray.hearing/)
-
:ugeek:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40894003/ ... rtainment/ (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40894003/ns/today-entertainment/)
LOS ANGELES, — Prosecutors this week begin offering evidence that Michael Jackson's doctor is responsible for the pop star's death in a case that could hinge on who gave the singer a fatal dose of a powerful drug he used for sleep.
Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's physician in 2009, has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death, and a Los Angeles judge Tuesday starts the preliminary hearing -- largely seen by legal experts as a formality-- to determine if enough evidence exists to bring the physician to a full trial.
..Jackson, one of the best-selling recording artists of all time who generated hits like "Thriller" and "Billie Jean," died of a prescription drug overdose on June 25, 2009, at age 50, after suffering cardiac arrest while in bed at his rented mansion.
Murray has admitted injecting Jackson with the powerful anesthetic propofol, which has been determined to be a key factor in his death. The drug is used mostly in hospital settings, but it was given to Jackson at home as a sleep aid.
Prosecutors hope to paint the doctor, who was hired by a concert promoter to care for Jackson before a series of performances, as a man who was in financial trouble and would irresponsibly give the singer drugs to keep his paycheck.
Murray has pleaded not guilty, and last week defense attorneys indicated they may focus on a mysterious syringe found near Jackson to explore whether someone other than Murray injected the singer with the fatal dose of propofol.
Some experts are skeptical about that possible defense, which is based on the assumption that Jackson, an admitted drug abuser, could have administered the propofol to himself.
."It plays to what people perceive Jackson was about and that he might have done it , but it's hard to see how it occurs without Murray having some role in it," said Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School.
Prelude to a trial?
Last week, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor cleared the way for the defense to test residue from syringes and an intravenous tube used to administer drugs to Jackson.
Following Jackson's death, the Los Angeles County coroner determined that propofol and the sedative lorazepam were the main drugs that caused Jackson's death.
..In their investigation, police and prosecutors focused on Murray and whether he had given Jackson too many drugs when the doctor should have known better.
Evidence in Jackson's death has been outlined in search warrant affidavits, but prosecutors will present more of their case against Murray in the preliminary hearing, which the doctor's attorneys say could last two weeks.
That would be even longer than the one-week preliminary hearing for football great O.J. Simpson's notorious 1995 trial on a charge he murdered his ex-wife, Levenson said. Most preliminary hearings in Los Angeles last a few hours at most.
In the end, the judge in the Murray case is largely expected to order a full trial because the burden of proof on prosecutors is low at a preliminary hearing.
Legal experts also see obstacles to any last-minute plea deal between prosecutors and defense attorneys.
"It sounds to me that this is going to be a trial," said Bennett Gershman, a former New York prosecutor. "There's just too many close factual questions that don't seem like they're going to be resolved by some kind of plea."
Steven Cron, an attorney who teaches at Pepperdine Law School, said Murray's lawyers may pursue a different defense if the case does go beyond the preliminary phase. If that occurs, Cron said testimony of medical experts will be key given that Murray was alone with Jackson in his last waking hours.
"It's going to be a case of dueling experts. Whose expert is more credible and why," he said.
8-)
So the media is speculating and getting advice from other people in the same field or similiar field of Doctors, lawyers (maybe real or not real), the media is getting advice from Tabliod show hosts who pretend to be lawyers and so called experts.
I see the same faces who reported on Michael's trial in 2005. I think there is a blackout to a certain extent. I see a few reports from certain MSM. There is no news of this on my local stations in Portland, OR. There is alot of info on the net from these same media that have real shows on the T.V. yet the reports seem to be just put out on the net.
The people who are paying attention via the net are getting sound bite info of media making up shit. I think this is deliberate. If the info is controlled like via the net less people will find the truth. Less people will find out about all the inconsistances.
The general public is being blocked out. Whatever thought they had about Michael is what they think now. That is why it is highlighted about how people perceive Michael to be. That is also why more things are being said as if it is Michael going on trial again.
Harvey said something very interesting recently. He said that Michael Jackson will go on trial and it will take about three months. Hmmm did Michael's actual trial take 3 months?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/ ... 50&t=17063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17063)
TMZ live january 5th (delete if already discussed)
start looking at around 7:00
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/05/tmz-live- ... s-answered (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/05/tmz-live-your-questions-answered)
twitter question : how long will MJ trial last?
Harvey answers: this is not the trial just the prelim, 30 witnesses bla bla bla and then the judge will decide if Michael Jackson should stand trial...
The article says that this is just seen largely as a formality by legal advisors. Like this is frivilous and just come on already. :roll:
There is also alot of inaccurate info getting spread like wild fire over the net. It is all getting changed like the game telephone. I believe that some media people are aware of this hoax and they are determined not to be PUNKED so they stay silent and KEEP WATCHING! lol
This is exactly the circus crap from the media during 2005. This is also why T.M. said what he did before the trial started.
Tom Mesereau speaks out on upcoming trial...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/ ... 04&t=16965 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=16965)
He says, "The defence lawyers have to do something and what they're gonna try and do is reflect attention away from their client and onto Michael Jackson. The reality is Michael Jackson was not suicidal, he was not self-destructive in the way they're trying to say, and hopefully their defence will not succeed.
"I'm sorry that the defence is going to have to bash Michael Jackson to try and divert attention from their guilty client. The reality is he was a nice, kind, decent individual; he wanted to change the world in a positive away... and unfortunately I think the defence is gonna try and attack his character, and hopefully it will not work."
That was a strategic move. He is very smart. He knows how to muddy the waters also. Payback is a bitch. The contradictions of witness statements is so that it will become so confusing as to cause so much reasonable doubt as to how, who did what, where, why...
So I wonder how many other parallels will come out. A little competative Mike. You just had to have this pre-lim trial go a extra week to beat OJ. lol
This is truly stepping into Michael's world. He has created his surroundings for a very long time and this is no different. He doesn't do things like normal everyday folks. He has to do things this way because it is all he knows and the public and media hadn't allowed him to live a life like an average joe.
Welcome to his world. Make Believe is very possible in a real world.
I also wonder how is it that the same sherrif escort is with Murray. Hmmm Go watch the video on that link and see for yourself the same escorts.
:ugeek:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/07 ... y.hearing/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/07/california.conrad.murray.hearing/)
Great Post!! :D
-
I looked up the faculty listings and Laurie Levenson is a Full-time Professor at Loyola Law School and Steven Cron is a Part-time Professor at Pepperdine Law School (He also has a private practice in Santa Monica, CA). I suspect the authors of these articles are calling or visiting various Law and Medical schools to see if any of the faculty members are willing to comment on the case.
-
Brian Oxman is outside the court saying Michael is a drug addict and claiming Michael's brain had swelling which was not in the autopsy
The AR on TMZ does report brain swelling on pages 26 - 28
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0208_mj_case_report_wm.pdf
So unless this isn't the AR then there was brain swelling but I researched that too and could find no link to brain swelling and drug addiction. It's all in the videos I made about the AR when it originally came out. Unless someone with a medical degree can clear that up, I never understood what Oxman was on about.
He complained of dehydration, and (one of the things) Dr. Murray did was rehydrate him. It's just an idea, but what do you think about the link Dehydration/Rehydration and Cerebral Edema (Brain swelling)?
-
Hey All,
I was just wondering when the transcripts of day 3 of the pre-trial was going to be posted? I'm new to the forum and find the posts on here quite interesting.
-
Hello...I am new here too...well sort of...I've been lurking for months. ; )
On the transcripts I have been wondering the same thing...I am thinking possibly tomorrow but more likely Monday.
-
Hi RunFaYaLife and MJTruth77...it's good to have you both here.
-
Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?
3/1/2010 11:56 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson received the fatal dose of Propofol through an IV in his leg, and law enforcement believes Dr. Conrad Murray may have tried covering it up ... this according to law enforcement sources and an anesthesiologist who reviewed the case.
Dr. Murray told cops he administered only a very small amount of Propofol -- 2.5ml shortly before Jackson died. But Dr. John Dombrowski, a noted anesthesiologist and member of the board of the American Society of Anesthesiologists who reviewed the file, tells TMZ that 2.5ml couldn't put Jackson to sleep, much less kill him. Indeed, the Coroner's report notes the level of Propofol found in Jackson's body was equivalent to that found during "general anesthesia for major surgery."
[...]
If Dr. Murray did indeed attach the 100ml bottle to the tube and the contents emptied into Jackson's system, that would be 40 times more Propofol than Dr. Murray said he administered.
There is no explanation for the empty bottle of Propofol in the hidden compartment.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/01/coverup-michael-jackson-death-propofol-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-iv/
A cat can take a one-time injection of up to 8 mg / kg (translating in a total body weight of 25 kg / 55 lbs that could be injected with the content of a 20 ml ampule containing 10 mg/ml of the drug (=200 mg)).
A cat can take a constant infusion of 0.1 - 0.8 mg/kg/min (translating into a 5 or 40 mg infusion per minute given MJ's body weight of 117 lbs / 50 kg thus an infusion duration of 40 or 5 minutes.
So if MJ was first injected with 25 mg, this would have been sufficient for putting a kitten of 3.1 kg / 6.9 lbs. to sleep. Injection of the remaining 175 mg in one shot would have been sufficient to put a dog of 21.9 kg / 48.2 lbs to sleep.
MJ was reported to have weighed 50 kg / 117 lbs.
The veterinarian dosage advice translates for me into this conclusion:
even one full bottle could not have been a letal dosis to a human being but put only a dog to sleep (to be confirmed by a physician).
We discussed Propofol many times - this is a veterinary point of view on dosage:
http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm (http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm)
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8200 (April 2010)
Seems we are being led in circles to discuss this again and again meanwhile the madness continues. TMZ does not want to refrain from contradicting themselves - or "who cares about my blubbering last night" ?
This is the time for the theme "medical ethics and expertise" again - in depth.
Personally I don't care if it's a fake prelim or a real prelim because the important subjects will be addressed anyway. We all know we are not always better off in a real trial due to many factors that are hindering from reveiling the truth. So I prefer a fake or semi-fake one because there the end of the story can be directed without harming the system. If however the jurisdiction system is a target too - which would not astound me at all - we need a real prelim and a real trial. All tears and distress from the family now can be understood as their tribute to make the cleaning of Michael's name come true for all times. Such tremendous efforts do not pass by without causing any pains. I am sending all my respects to Joe and Katherine. It must be horrible to go through this.
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Encino_girl, if you read my post you should have noticed I said EVERY possibility is open, even the one you think is going too far. You are the one saying that that is going too far, I never said yours was. Please don't twist my words every time and stop being so defensive every time. If you don't want to check if it is possible, that's fine. But I do want to know that, because it would shed a completely different light to all of this. If it's NOT possible, then the prelim is real which means there need to be charges against Murray and that way, there is a dead body because without a corpse no manslaughter charge. That would mean we should take a new turn. By only assuming things we will never get to the bottom.
You plainly insinuated I implied or said it was not possible that this preliminary hearing was an act.
@encino_girl, if you have any proof to back up your story which you present as truth, like this not being legally possible or 100% real, please share
I've offered veritable proof of the realism of this hearing.
Now, please quote any statement I've made saying anything about anything going too far. Those are your words.
Exactly who's twisting words to fit their agenda? Now you're asking me to prove a negative? Again, it comes down to possible vs probable. I've maintained the probability of this being an act is extremely low.
-
As to the Propofol discussion coming up again and again and in the light of the probable upcoming "fight of experts" over the matter in prelim / trial, I never get James Brown out of my mind.
James Brown died of pneumonia and induced heart failure.
James Brown was seeing his dentist for a dental implant treatment before being advised to get treatment for his overall condition and checking into Emory Crawford Long Memorial Hospital.
On December 23, 2006, James Brown, in ill health, showed up at his dentist's office in Atlanta, Georgia several hours later than his appointment for dental implant work. During that visit, Brown's dentist observed that Brown looked "very bad ... weak and dazed." Instead of performing the dental work, the dentist advised Brown to see a doctor right away about his medical condition.
http://www.reference.com/browse/James_Brown
Oral surgeons are second only to anesthesiologists in their training to administer the drug because it is so widely used to remove wisdom teeth or insert dental implants, Perrott said.
The government's drug czar warned Thursday that Jackson's death is a wake-up call to the nation about prescription drug abuse. Gil Kerlikowske, chief of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said in an interview on CBS' "The Early Show" that more people are dying in the United States from drug overdoses than gunshot wounds.
Weber said. "I would think it would be very hard to overdose alone because once you stop, the effects go away."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_633011.html
Mid July 2009 the first recalls of Propofol were published by the FDA for safety reasons (bacterial contamination of the product). The timing is not astonishing - the name of Propofol was in all newspapers after Michael's "passing". However:
A Teva spokeswoman said the company had been contacted by the Drug Enforcement Administration about a lot number on a specific propofol vial "in relation to an investigation they are conducting," which she did not confirm or deny involved the Jackson death.
That lot number, she said, is not one of those involved in the recall.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/ProductAlert/Prescriptions/15134
More than 57,000 vials of Teva-manufactured propofol were recalled after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a health advisory on July 13, 2009, warning physicians not to use 100 ml vials of propofol from two lots.
One of main manufacturers of Propofol is TEVA, another is Hospira.
Teva received a warning from FDA in April 2010 after they had to recall 100 ml vials from the market:
Teva Pharmaceuticals failed to have proper quality control measures in place to prevent bacterial contamination from entering batches of their generic version of the anesthetic propofol, leading to a recall last year after at least 40 people became ill, according to federal inspectors.
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/teva-propofol-warning-letter-9927/
Teva stopped production thus resulting in a product shortage in the U.S.
The Teva propofol recall, and another propofol recall by Hospira, Inc. due to particulate matter contamination in November, has caused a shortage of propofol in the United States. As a result, the FDA has given APP Pharmaceuticals Inc. permission to import Propoven, a similar drug, into the U.S. Propoven has not been approved by FDA, but is in use in a number of other countries around the world.
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/teva-propofol-warning-letter-9927/
Where do the contaminations result from?
The drug is available as an aqueous lipid emulsion
(Dipdvan| ICI Pharmaceuticals)
containing I% propofol, 10% soyabean oil, 1.2% egg
phosphatide and 2.25% glycerol.
Product information provided with propofol states that
the preparation should be "... drawn aseptically into a
sterile syringe ... immediately alter opening the ampoule"
and that it should be injected "... without delay." Despite
these recommendations, it is often difficult in clinical
practice to ensure that there is no delay between drawing-
up and administration. Therefore propofol can often be
left standing in a sterile syring~ for some period of time
prior to administration.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k60121887j07mr03/
The intravenous anaesthetic propofol may become contaminated once the ampoules have been opened. [...] When propofol is stored in opened ampoules, the bacterial contamination rate is high.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/gmed/eja/2002/00000019/00000006/art00010
Propofol can support rapid microbial growth and endotoxin production. To avoid infectious complications, scrupulous aseptic technique should be used when preparing or administering this anesthetic.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/30145228
FDA issued a warning about proper handling in 2007 already.
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/ucm125817.htm
Escherichia coli is one of the most frequent causes of many common bacterial infections, including cholecystitis, bacteremia, cholangitis, urinary tract infection (UTI), and traveler's diarrhea, and other clinical infections such as neonatal meningitis and pneumonia.
Drawing out a case that has not yet been subject to interest:
We face three sources of contamination of the product with bacteria:
1) the fact that the product is containing soy bean oil which as a lipid supports bacteria growth
2) improper manufacturing
3) improper handling at anesthesia administration in divergence to guidelines
Therefore propofol can often be
left standing in a sterile syring~ for some period of time
prior to administration. For some anaesthetists, this delay
is on occassion deliberate with several induction doses
prepared in advance for an operating list. The problem
of clinical practicalities occasionally resulting in diver-
gence from package insert guidelines has been previously
identified, l but not quantified.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k60121887j07mr03/
Given, Mr. Brown went to see his dentist and was administered the drug from a not ideal clinical environment in preparation of the implant treatment, he showed unusual reactions to the drug and was advised to see a physician.
Could it be plausible that his conditions aggravated from the injection of contaminated material?
Could it be either the dentist, the hospital or both having executed avoidable mal-practice?
Could it be plausible that James Brown's death could have been avoided?
26 News spoke to C.A. Reid Memorial Funeral Home and found out that Jackson had a personal viewing the night before Brown's funeral. They tell 26 News Jackson stood over Brown for more than four hours to honor him.
26 News has also learned Jackson asked about the casket Brown had picked. It is the same type of casket he picked for himself.
http://www2.wagt.com/news/2009/jul/07/michael-jackson-chose-the-same-type-of-casket-as-j-ar-684608/
Could the statement that the dentist never treated James Brown but sent him right away be a cover-up? The cover-up we should rather focus on?
Did anybody ever question the death of James Brown?
-
Hey All,
I was just wondering when the transcripts of day 3 of the pre-trial was going to be posted? I'm new to the forum and find the posts on here quite interesting.
Hello...I am new here too...well sort of...I've been lurking for months. ; )
On the transcripts I have been wondering the same thing...I am thinking possibly tomorrow but more likely Monday.
Today,with day 4.
I had some personal things to do yesterday which delayed me putting 3up and then 4 was underway.There is a lot of info so bare with me and they will be up soon.
I am aware I said this yesterday but life got in the way,sorry to those waiting.
Thank you and welcome to the forum x
-
Life goes on Sinders - hope everything's ok.
-
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this Sinders I hope you know how much it's appreciated, I guess some get impatient for updates but life has to go on for you too, and patience is after all a virtue we should all have acquired since all this began!!
-
It ok...Just take your time...no rush...thanks for taking the time to make the thread...on that note thanks to all the admins and mods for keeping this forum structured and organised...and thank you everyone else on the forum for letting us read your opinions and drawing our attention to stories related or non related to the hoax... :) no matter how small the contribution to this website in any way its still a contribution...we might only lay one brick each but together we make a darn good house :lol:
-
can i ask a question please.................
HAS ANYONE ON HERE,COMPARED THE 2005 TRIAL TO 2010/2011 TRIAL PRELIM........................and noticed similarities........????????????????
e.g. packages arriving at murrays home....??????????????? was there anything about packages 2005...?
katherine crying in court...?????????????? 2005,who cried in court
hope i am making myself understood here..........x
-
Life goes on Sinders - hope everything's ok.
It ok...Just take your time...no rush...thanks for taking the time to make the thread...on that note thanks to all the admins and mods for keeping this forum structured and organised...and thank you everyone else on the forum for letting us read your opinions and drawing our attention to stories related or non related to the hoax... :) no matter how small the contribution to this website in any way its still a contribution...we might only lay one brick each but together we make a darn good house :lol:
I love that quote!!
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this Sinders I hope you know how much it's appreciated, I guess some get impatient for updates but life has to go on for you too, and patience is after all a virtue we should all have acquired since all this began!!
You are so very welcome forum family,I am really happy to do it and if it makes people feel a bit better about it all,answers a few questions,gives someone a new insight or whatever then that is amazing and yes a big thank you to anyone who has posted in here and given an opinion or written out trial updates,recaps etc <3
Everything is fine,thank you for asking!Just a stressful time,I don't like falling behind myself.I should learn to stop being a perfectionist/workaholic haha.
Love to you all,stay strong and beLIEve xo
-
As to the Propofol discussion coming up again and again and in the light of the probable upcoming "fight of experts" over the matter in prelim / trial, I never get James Brown out of my mind.
James Brown died of pneumonia and induced heart failure.
James Brown was seeing his dentist for a dental implant treatment before being advised to get treatment for his overall condition and checking into Emory Crawford Long Memorial Hospital.
On December 23, 2006, James Brown, in ill health, showed up at his dentist's office in Atlanta, Georgia several hours later than his appointment for dental implant work. During that visit, Brown's dentist observed that Brown looked "very bad ... weak and dazed." Instead of performing the dental work, the dentist advised Brown to see a doctor right away about his medical condition.
http://www.reference.com/browse/James_Brown
Oral surgeons are second only to anesthesiologists in their training to administer the drug because it is so widely used to remove wisdom teeth or insert dental implants, Perrott said.
The government's drug czar warned Thursday that Jackson's death is a wake-up call to the nation about prescription drug abuse. Gil Kerlikowske, chief of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said in an interview on CBS' "The Early Show" that more people are dying in the United States from drug overdoses than gunshot wounds.
Weber said. "I would think it would be very hard to overdose alone because once you stop, the effects go away."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_633011.html
Mid July 2009 the first recalls of Propofol were published by the FDA for safety reasons (bacterial contamination of the product). The timing is not astonishing - the name of Propofol was in all newspapers after Michael's "passing". However:
A Teva spokeswoman said the company had been contacted by the Drug Enforcement Administration about a lot number on a specific propofol vial "in relation to an investigation they are conducting," which she did not confirm or deny involved the Jackson death.
That lot number, she said, is not one of those involved in the recall.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/ProductAlert/Prescriptions/15134
More than 57,000 vials of Teva-manufactured propofol were recalled after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a health advisory on July 13, 2009, warning physicians not to use 100 ml vials of propofol from two lots.
One of main manufacturers of Propofol is TEVA, another is Hospira.
Teva received a warning from FDA in April 2010 after they had to recall 100 ml vials from the market:
Teva Pharmaceuticals failed to have proper quality control measures in place to prevent bacterial contamination from entering batches of their generic version of the anesthetic propofol, leading to a recall last year after at least 40 people became ill, according to federal inspectors.
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/teva-propofol-warning-letter-9927/
Teva stopped production thus resulting in a product shortage in the U.S.
The Teva propofol recall, and another propofol recall by Hospira, Inc. due to particulate matter contamination in November, has caused a shortage of propofol in the United States. As a result, the FDA has given APP Pharmaceuticals Inc. permission to import Propoven, a similar drug, into the U.S. Propoven has not been approved by FDA, but is in use in a number of other countries around the world.
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/teva-propofol-warning-letter-9927/
Where do the contaminations result from?
The drug is available as an aqueous lipid emulsion
(Dipdvan| ICI Pharmaceuticals)
containing I% propofol, 10% soyabean oil, 1.2% egg
phosphatide and 2.25% glycerol.
Product information provided with propofol states that
the preparation should be "... drawn aseptically into a
sterile syringe ... immediately alter opening the ampoule"
and that it should be injected "... without delay." Despite
these recommendations, it is often difficult in clinical
practice to ensure that there is no delay between drawing-
up and administration. Therefore propofol can often be
left standing in a sterile syring~ for some period of time
prior to administration.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k60121887j07mr03/
The intravenous anaesthetic propofol may become contaminated once the ampoules have been opened. [...] When propofol is stored in opened ampoules, the bacterial contamination rate is high.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/gmed/eja/2002/00000019/00000006/art00010
Propofol can support rapid microbial growth and endotoxin production. To avoid infectious complications, scrupulous aseptic technique should be used when preparing or administering this anesthetic.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/30145228
FDA issued a warning about proper handling in 2007 already.
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/ucm125817.htm
Escherichia coli is one of the most frequent causes of many common bacterial infections, including cholecystitis, bacteremia, cholangitis, urinary tract infection (UTI), and traveler's diarrhea, and other clinical infections such as neonatal meningitis and pneumonia.
Drawing out a case that has not yet been subject to interest:
We face three sources of contamination of the product with bacteria:
1) the fact that the product is containing soy bean oil which as a lipid supports bacteria growth
2) improper manufacturing
3) improper handling at anesthesia administration in divergence to guidelines
Therefore propofol can often be
left standing in a sterile syring~ for some period of time
prior to administration. For some anaesthetists, this delay
is on occassion deliberate with several induction doses
prepared in advance for an operating list. The problem
of clinical practicalities occasionally resulting in diver-
gence from package insert guidelines has been previously
identified, l but not quantified.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k60121887j07mr03/
Given, Mr. Brown went to see his dentist and was administered the drug from a not ideal clinical environment in preparation of the implant treatment, he showed unusual reactions to the drug and was advised to see a physician.
Could it be plausible that his conditions aggravated from the injection of contaminated material?
Could it be either the dentist, the hospital or both having executed avoidable mal-practice?
Could it be plausible that James Brown's death could have been avoided?
26 News spoke to C.A. Reid Memorial Funeral Home and found out that Jackson had a personal viewing the night before Brown's funeral. They tell 26 News Jackson stood over Brown for more than four hours to honor him.
26 News has also learned Jackson asked about the casket Brown had picked. It is the same type of casket he picked for himself.
http://www2.wagt.com/news/2009/jul/07/michael-jackson-chose-the-same-type-of-casket-as-j-ar-684608/
Could the statement that the dentist never treated James Brown but sent him right away be a cover-up? The cover-up we should rather focus on?
Did anybody ever question the death of James Brown?
This made me think about the fake drugs being sold in Africa, where people dies by consuming meds that are not effective.
There was a case were some kids did not wake up from surgery because the adrenaline was fake. Also was a case repported were diabetic patiens died by using fake insuline.
African police seize 10 metric tons of fake meds
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67P35720100826 (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67P35720100826)
Learn about counterfeit drugs around the globe
http://www.buysafedrugs.info/map.html (http://www.buysafedrugs.info/map.html)
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Thanks for the warm welcome :)
Sinderella, thanks for posting the transcripts and sorry if I appear impatient..I'm just anxious to see what was said...there are many contradictions so far which has me raising some red flags.
And I will be honest, I'm not quite a hoax believer just yet..I do believe that Michael is gone forever *cries*...but that is why I am here to find out more because I DO hope that he is alive somewhere.
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Thanks for the warm welcome :)
Sinderella, thanks for posting the transcripts and sorry if I appear impatient..I'm just anxious to see what was said...there are many contradictions so far which has me raising some red flags.
And I will be honest, I'm not quite a hoax believer just yet..I do believe that Michael is gone forever *cries*...but that is why I am here to find out more because I DO hope that he is alive somewhere.
Not at all,no need to be sorry,I was simply answering your question =]
I know everyone is eager to read and talk about the trial,there are a few notes up in the previous pages from yesterday to do with Fleak and her finds in the bedroom and a great post from S_D which is more indepth about the drugs found.
There are too many contradictions starting on June 25th 2009.
May I make a suggestion to you,as you are not quite a full believer yet,look at the things that don't make sense rather than the things that do to start with.
Look at er...a post i made a few pages back about off things on the actual day,the ambulance reversing when it could of driven forward,no sirens,the fake pic taken by one of MJ's own friends and who does work for the national photographic-the LACK of pictures taken overall that day,the fact all the staff were 'removed' soon after,the paramedics behaviour,inconsistent stories,lies at the hospital,the way Murray behaved-there is just no way he can be a real cardiologist and not know CPR,there is just none.It is taught in highschool.
Look at the how TMZ reported his death before it had even been called at the hospital,no one has actually seen this body apart from Murray,Alvarez and some dodgy UCLA staff,nothing was signed,med records were lied on,NO TIME OF ANYTHING was kept by anyone,a Dr must always note times of things due to the drugs and so on which may need to be administered at different stages/time of incident/time of death etc.
Look into the very wrong autopsy report,they don't even have his name on it!!
There is so much from that day to look at from another perspective.
Then you have the body moving in the helicopter-EVERYONE saw that,that was not a mirage,it happened.The fact they used no LAcoroner body bag,just a sheet....non believers look at it like 'oh how typical,because it's MJ nothing is done properly' but in reality it was done on purpose.
Look at the footage of the guy jumping out with a sheet over him,then look up the fact the german group who said they did it,are friends of Michael's,one is an MJ impersonator himself,and their video is totally different to the actual one filmed-different height van to door,different coloured door,different security guy...and so on.I have my own opinions on why they said they did it,it's because it was never meant to be seen and it was so it needed to be covered up.
They just should of used obscure random ppl but they couldn't,they needed people who are trusted so why not use friends?
Do you know what I mean...?
Watch the memorial again,look at how ridiculous it is,who is there more importantly who IS NOT there.The kids faces,they didnt just watch their father die 7days before hand,at all.The casket is too small also...just to point your attention to that whole thing.
As for FL funeral...i'm not even going into it.LOL.
Think...Liberian Girl..it will help.
It literally goes on and on and on.You have a lot to catch up on so I suggest-with love-that while waiting for court updates you might want to look into some of what I said above :)
If you have any questions there are more than enough people here to answer you in full and guide you in the right direction
I hope this helps you believe a little more than you do already x
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Replying to Sinderella:
I tried quoting you but for some reason it isn't working.
Anyway, this is why I am here because there are a lot of things about the memorial and also the This Is It movie..that made me wonder. I noticed that too, that the casket is too small for MJ. MJ was tall. And how come it was a closed casket not an open casket? MJ was the most famous man in the world why wouldn't the family have an open casket? And in the This Is It movie...there was no RIP or 1958-2009...which I also found to be quite odd since had just died. And the children at the memorial couldn't look more bored.
Where can I find the footage you indicated about a man covering the body with a sheet? Is it in the video section of the forum?
But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.
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But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.
Yes, that's why he is doing this for us. Because he loves us. It's all for love. The Greatest Demonstration for Freedom in HIStory.
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But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.
Yes, that's why he is doing this for us. Because he loves us. It's all for love. The Greatest Demonstration for Freedom in HIStory.
I think it's more because he had no other choice.
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Replying to Sinderella:
I tried quoting you but for some reason it isn't working.
Anyway, this is why I am here because there are a lot of things about the memorial and also the This Is It movie..that made me wonder. I noticed that too, that the casket is too small for MJ. MJ was tall. And how come it was a closed casket not an open casket? MJ was the most famous man in the world why wouldn't the family have an open casket? And in the This Is It movie...there was no RIP or 1958-2009...which I also found to be quite odd since had just died. And the children at the memorial couldn't look more bored.
Where can I find the footage you indicated about a man covering the body with a sheet? Is it in the video section of the forum?
But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.
Oh don't worry just @ me =]
I could go on for many many hours about the issues with TII.And also the 02 conference.I dont want to get into either because people have strong opinions on both and I dont want to direct the thread off the trial topic but I can pm you and there are literally hundreds of links,threads and so on already on the forum going through almost every frame of that movie/conference.That is really when the whole thing started-not saying it was only planned from March-impossible but the ball started rolling,IMO.
There is no RIP anywhere for him on anything-I did a post on those things er...a few pages into this thread so go from page one and see if you agree with it or not.
The body was wrapped in a sheet on the stretcher,the coroner van opened the door,pulled another stretcher out to transport it over,but took the body bag that was on the stretcher OFF and threw it back into the van,by law a dead body must be transported for health and safety in a body bag...i mean it's common knowledge.
I will find you the video to watch
He DOES love them,not did ;) but it goes beyond that....he loves his kids more and I personally think there are a number of reasons behind this...dots still need to be connected yet though
You only need to watch them at the funerals,his family...not one tear...from anyone to know it isn't real.
His kids are the key
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I think it's more because he had no other choice.
Agree with u, all this is bigger and more serious, yes, his fans are his life, he loves us dearly but i'm more than sure that if his and his kids' lives were in serious danger he had to forget about everything and do what he had to do. None of us knows Michael and we cannot say what he would do or what he wouldn't do.
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I think it's more because he had no other choice.
Agree with u, all this is bigger and more serious, yes, his fans are his life, he loves us dearly but i'm more than sure that if his and his kids' lives were in serious danger he had to forget about everything and do what he had to do. None of us knows Michael and we cannot say what he would do or what he wouldn't do.
Well said. I agree.
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Sinderella,Just wanted to thank you for all the hard work and effort you have put in for all of us in providing the updates and everything..It is really appreciated.♥
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Yes. Thank you, Sinderella. I have to be careful when I read the locked prelim thread because it can be disheartening at times. However, I just remind myself that, in the end, we will all see that this was just a part of the hoax. Michael is still alive and wants us to all "Keep the Faith" and know that "[We] Are Not Alone."
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Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
Harvey said something very interesting recently. He said that Michael Jackson will go on trial and it will take about three months. Hmmm did Michael's actual trial take 3 months?
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17063
ijcsly wrote:
TMZ live january 5th (delete if already discussed)
start looking at around 7:00
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/05/tmz-live- (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/05/tmz-live-) ... s-answered
twitter question : how long will MJ trial last?
Harvey answers: this is not the trial just the prelim, 30 witnesses bla bla bla and then the judge will decide if Michael Jackson should stand trial...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4612955.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4612955.stm)
Last Updated: Tuesday, 7 June, 2005, 07:08 GMT 08:08 UK
Michael Jackson: Trial of the century?
Michael Jackson's court case was expected to be the "trial of the century" - but after just three months and few of the promised celebrity witnesses, has it lived up to its billing?
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41224000/jpg/_41224057_jacksonhandafp_203.jpg)
Michael Jackson did not give evidence himself
There are few stars more famous than Michael Jackson and few charges more serious than sexually abusing a young boy.
Yet there is a sense that the singer's trial has not caught the public's interest as much as many had expected.
"Forget the century, it wasn't even the cultural story of the spring," says Robert Thompson, professor of popular culture and director for the centre for the study of popular television at Syracuse University.
"It turns out more people were talking about American Idol by a long shot."
The assumption that 24-hour news channels would go into a constant "Michael cycle" was wrong, he explains.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41224000/jpg/_41224063_jacksontvap_203.jpg)
TV reconstructions have been filmed in the absence of real footage
"It turns out that as a massive news story over here, as another trial of the century, it really didn't live up to it. It was no OJ, by any stretch of the imagination."
For news channel CNN, there has been big interest in what is "a very important story on many different levels", according to Nick Wrenn, managing editor of CNN Europe, Middle East and Africa.
"There's been a fair degree of coverage - but not the kind of wall-to-wall you would have expected. Certainly not the kind of coverage we saw with the OJ Simpson trial."
That is partly because Judge Rodney Melville refused to let the trial be televised, saying he did not want it to become a "circus".
So, reconstructions aside, people have been unable to get hooked on following the soap opera-like drama in their living rooms every night.
When the OJ Simpson case became a media event as well as a murder trial 10 years ago, action such as Simpson trying on a pair of blood-stained gloves in court kept viewers hooked.
But this time, there has been little on-screen excitement, except Mr Jackson shuffling into court in his pyjamas.
"Even if there was complete access to cameras in the court, I still don't think this would have reached that [OJ-like] level of cultural penetration," Prof Thompson says.
Previous accusations
"What was happening in the courtroom was not that new or all that interesting to people who had been hearing about this Michael Jackson business since 1992 when the first accusation came in."
In the courtroom, there has been some drama amid proceedings that have ranged from the banal to the surreal.
But it has not been compelling enough for most ordinary observers to want to read or hear blow-by-blow accounts every day.
The dramatic moments included appearances by former wife Debbie Rowe, actor Macaulay Culkin and Janet Arvizo, mother of Mr Jackson's teenage accuser Gavin.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41224000/jpg/_41224053_courttvap_203.jpg)
TV correspondents have been camped outside the court
Gavin and his brother Star described the alleged abuse - but such detail made many want to squirm in discomfort rather than discuss it with friends.
"There hasn't been a great deal of appetite for some of the quite graphic nature of the evidence that's been coming out," Mr Wrenn says.
"People have been inclined to switch off rather than switch on because it's been a bit too sordid."
For Mr Jackson, keeping up his performance and image became less important as the trial went on, and he chose not to take the stand in what would have been a fascinating finale.
But his image has become so bizarre that few people are shocked by anything he does any more.
And on the other side, the Arvizo family were not easy for the public to relate to or sympathise with either.
Mr Jackson was not the only celebrity missing from the witness stand.
Stars barred
At the start of the trial, we were promised stars including Elizabeth Taylor, Diana Ross and Stevie Wonder would come to defend their friend.
But the judge decided not to allow character witnesses, restricting the celebrity count to just Culkin, Jay Leno and Chris Tucker.
Although the trial has not gripped the global audience, it has still not been far from the top of the news agenda.
Mr Wrenn says viewers wanted to know about the main evidence, but not "a drip, drip, drip daily update".
CNN has "got that bit right", he says. But Prof Thompson adds the media as a whole has still given the story more time than it deserves.
"Even the amount of Michael Jackson coverage that was given was disproportionately large given its importance in any kind of rational journalistic universe," he says.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jackson's jury explains decision
The jury in Michael Jackson's child abuse trial said there was simply "not enough" evidence for a guilty verdict.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4090186.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4090186.stm)
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Jackson verdict not the end, say media
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40623000/jpg/_40623926_express_203.jpg)
Britain's Daily Express devotes its entire front page to the story
The drawn, white face of Michael Jackson leaving court a free man after being acquitted of all charges of child molestation gazes with exhausted relief from many papers around the world.
But the story of his acquittal has not dominated the world press in the way it might have been expected to.
That is partly due to the fact that the verdict came late for many Asian and European papers, but it may also reflect the absence of an all-consuming interest in the case, in contrast to the furore over the OJ Simpson trial in the 1990s.
This is despite the fact that more than 2,000 journalists from around the world were present in and around the courtroom for the climax of the trial.
Keep reading here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4091566.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4091566.stm)
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Pundits analyse Jackson verdict
One of the most prominent lawyers in the US has said Michael Jackson was "selectively prosecuted" because of his superstar status.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40622000/jpg/_40622188_jackson_fan203300ap.jpg)
Jackson's fans have supported him vocally outside the court
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4090130.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4090130.stm)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Locals cash in on Jackson trial
With the world's media covering the Michael Jackson trial in the small Californian town of Santa Maria, residents are making the most of the money-making opportunities.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40884000/jpg/_40884939_jacksonap_203.jpg)
More than 1,000 journalists applied for accreditation to cover the trial
Everyone in this town seems to have caught a bug. Not the kind that causes flu-like symptoms, but the contagious desire to make money from the headline-grabbing trial taking place on their doorsteps.
Santa Maria hotels are enjoying a boom in business during what is normally their slowest time of the year.
As well as its Romantic Getaway Package and a deal on a golfing weekend, one local inn has been advertising its Michael Jackson Trial Special.
This is, after all, the land of opportunity.
Keep reading here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4314149.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4314149.stm)
What a circus. I am seeing how the media put the comparision to OJ during Michael's trial. I wonder if they will start to compare Murray's trial to OJ or Michael's?
Peace
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/ent ... efault.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/entertainment/2005/michael_jackson_on_trial/default.stm)
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Sinderella,Just wanted to thank you for all the hard work and effort you have put in for all of us in providing the updates and everything..It is really appreciated.♥
Yes. Thank you, Sinderella. I have to be careful when I read the locked prelim thread because it can be disheartening at times. However, I just remind myself that, in the end, we will all see that this was just a part of the hoax. Michael is still alive and wants us to all "Keep the Faith" and know that "[We] Are Not Alone."
Aww,those are lovely messages to come home too,you're so welcome!!
There is a great combined effort going on from everyone.<3
It is hard BUT be strong and focused.When you read day 4,you will see the mess that is this trial.
Day 4,almost done..and trust,you will LOL when y'all read what this Nicole Alvarez has to say....or not..as it happens.
Swear,if some people had brain cells,they would be dangerous.
Hope you're all having an awesome stress free weekend <3
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http://t.co/2vvclDD
court transcripts from MJ777 (not official)
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[hesouttamylife wrote:
http://t.co/2vvclDD (http://t.co/2vvclDD)
court transcripts from MJ777 (not official)/quote]
Now Murray is also psychologist :roll: :?
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It still baffles me about the family and the truck that was in the house the day after MJ "passed"
There has been no mention of that yet but what I do not get is if there were all those medications and medical things there why did the family not " clean up" at that time? Does anyone know if they were escorted into the house with the police to preserve eveidence? I found not mention of that.
I still have it in my head after all this time that they may have been there to plant things, not take things out. Is it me or does anyone else think that the amount of drugs found is a little over the top?
There was an awful lot of vials etc in that house. Too much ,,, it seems like overkill ( pardon the pun,,, not intended)
If it was my family member and an incredibly famous family member I am not sure if I could resist the temptation to cover some things up if I was able.
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Sinderella,Just wanted to thank you for all the hard work and effort you have put in for all of us in providing the updates and everything..It is really appreciated.♥
Yes. Thank you, Sinderella. I have to be careful when I read the locked prelim thread because it can be disheartening at times. However, I just remind myself that, in the end, we will all see that this was just a part of the hoax. Michael is still alive and wants us to all "Keep the Faith" and know that "[We] Are Not Alone."
Aww,those are lovely messages to come home too,you're so welcome!!
There is a great combined effort going on from everyone.<3
It is hard BUT be strong and focused.When you read day 4,you will see the mess that is this trial.
Day 4,almost done..and trust,you will LOL when y'all read what this Nicole Alvarez has to say....or not..as it happens.
Swear,if some people had brain cells,they would be dangerous.
Hope you're all having an awesome stress free weekend <3
How completely inconsiderate of me. Let me join the others in thanking you for all of the time you've invested and the trouble you've gone through to provide everyone with this wealth of information!
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How completely inconsiderate of me. Let me join the others in thanking you for all of the time you've invested and the trouble you've gone through to provide everyone with this wealth of information!
Inconsiderate of you?I don't expect anyone to thank me.I never started either thread for glory purposes,I started them so the information could be shared by and commented on by everyone.
Not sure if that is how you meant it but it sounds extremley sarcastic and really,there is no need.
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How completely inconsiderate of me. Let me join the others in thanking you for all of the time you've invested and the trouble you've gone through to provide everyone with this wealth of information!
Inconsiderate of you?I don't expect anyone to thank me.I never started either thread for glory purposes,I started them so the information could be shared by and commented on by everyone.
Not sure if that is how you meant it but it sounds extremley sarcastic and really,there is no need.
Honestly, I didn't mean for it to sound sarcastic. I sincerely meant to say thank you for all the hard work and for sacrificing the time to put this all into one place. It's very generous of you.
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It still baffles me about the family and the truck that was in the house the day after MJ "passed"
There has been no mention of that yet but what I do not get is if there were all those medications and medical things there why did the family not " clean up" at that time? Does anyone know if they were escorted into the house with the police to preserve eveidence? I found not mention of that.
I still have it in my head after all this time that they may have been there to plant things, not take things out. Is it me or does anyone else think that the amount of drugs found is a little over the top?
There was an awful lot of vials etc in that house. Too much ,,, it seems like overkill ( pardon the pun,,, not intended)
If it was my family member and an incredibly famous family member I am not sure if I could resist the temptation to cover some things up if I was able.
The investigators were there before the family. LaToya got there shortly before midnight. I find it weird though that not all medications and everything medical was cleaned out until the 29th. Murray sure didn't do a good job cleaning up, did he? Vials, needles, bottles all over the place, and a stockpile in the closet.
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Ever since the testimony of Faheem Muhammad was made public recently and it seemed like as I read that many people thought that this was new info they never heard of before. Well me too. I never read or saw anything before about Faheem being a witness. This wasn't very high on the media's list to report.
So it bothered me why I hadn't a clue about it. I searched the forum and only two threads came up with the exact same article used. I did a search on the web using these key words: CONRAD MURRAY INTERRUPTED CPR TO COLLECT DRUGS
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8 ... RUGS&type= (http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-&p=CONRAD%20MURRAY%20INTERRUPTED%20CPR%20TO%20COLLECT%20DRUGS&type=)
So this supposed testimony was already out there and made public. The wording of supposed testimony from Faheem and Alvarez is very well rehearsed. It appears that the media is not fact checking. They copied and pasted in March and they are doing it again.
From what I have read on Faheem and Alvarez's testimony it is in so many news stories already written before the pre-lim. The media had access to the testimony before hand? What a mess.
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b172887 ... alted.html (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b172887_michael_jackson_employee_murray_halted.html)
Michael Jackson Employee: Murray Halted CPR to Stash Drug Bottles
Mon., Mar. 22, 2010 5:50 PM PDT by Natalie Finn
(http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20100204/293.murray.jackson.lc.020410.jpg)
Yikes.
Michael Jackson's private physician, Conrad Murray, was performing CPR on the dying pop star but stopped to gather up various drug vials, according to an account given to investigators by a Jackson employee called to his boss's room while Murray was working on him.
Per court documents released Monday, logistics director Alberto Alvarez told authorities that he went into Jackson's room and witnessed a disturbing scene: Jackson lying there, eyes open but not moving, exhibiting no signs of life, an IV sticking out of his leg.
Murray was frantically trying to resuscitate Jackson, Alvarez said, according to the filing, but didn't tell him to call paramedics until the vials had been stashed away.
As far as the prosecutors who want to convict Murray of manslaughter are concerned, this is damning info, but the doc's attorney is already raring to tear Alvarez's statement to pieces.
"We note that this statement was given more than two months after Michael Jackson's death and is inconsistent with a statement he gave the police the day after Mr. Jackson was taken to the hospital," attorney Edward Chernoff said in a statement to E! News, noting that Alvarez was interviewed twice by police
"Further, his statement does not match up with much of the physical evidence found at the scene. The defense would caution against putting too much emphasis on statements leaked by law enforcement or the district attorney's office. These leaks provided are piecemeal and are timed for effect.
"Since Dr. Murray's next court hearing is scheduled 10 days, we expect more leaks," Chernoff continued. "However, we will not be trying this case in the press. We would ask the public to reserve judgment until after the people's witnesses are placed under oath and subjected to the rigors of cross-examination. We are confident that a fair trial will ferret out the truth."
The medical examiner ultimately ruled Jackson's death a homicide caused by acute propofol intoxication, part of a lethal cocktail of sedatives and other drugs in his system.
Alvarez said that he arrived at the Jackson home for work at 10:30 a.m. and, at 12:17 p.m., got a call from Jackson's personal assistant, Michael Amir Williams, telling him that something was wrong with the King of Pop.
When he asked Murray what was wrong, Alvarez said, the doctor told him, "He had a reaction. He had a bad reaction."
At one point, Jackson's two eldest children came into the room and saw what was going on before a nanny ushered them away, Alvarez said.
While Murray was performing CPR when Alvarez got into the room, the employee told investigators that the cardiologist then briefly stopped, grabbed a few rubber-topped drug vials and gave them to Alvarez, telling him to put them in a bag. Alvarez said that he put them in a plastic bag he grabbed off the floor, after which Murray directed him to put that bag in a brown canvas bag.
According to Alvarez's account, Murray then told him to take the IV bag (which, Alvarez said, contained a milky white liquid) and to put that in a blue canvas bag.
A 911 call was made from the Holmby Hills house at 12:21 p.m. on June 25. Jackson was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center at 2:26 p.m.
In the days following Jackson's death, a bag of sedatives, including the milky white propofol, were discovered by investigators, with Murray's direction, in a closet in Jackson's bedroom.
The cardiologist has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and remains free on $75,000 bail.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7694&start=0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7694&start=0)
LOS ANGELES – As Michael Jackson lay dying in his bedroom in a rented mansion, his doctor stopped CPR on him and delayed calling paramedics so he could collect drug vials at the scene, according to an employee of the pop star who called 911.
Alberto Alvarez, who worked as Jackson's logistics director, told investigators that after receiving a distress call from another worker June 25, he rushed up the stairs of Jackson's home and entered a bedroom to find the singer lying on a bed with his arms outstretched and his eyes and mouth open.
At his side, Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, was administering CPR with one hand.
"Alberto, Alberto, come quickly," Murray said, according to a statement obtained by The Associated Press. "He had a reaction, he had a bad reaction."
Two of the star's children, Prince and Paris, came in the room and cried as they saw Murray trying to save their father. They were quickly ushered away.
The account and other statements obtained by the AP depict a grisly scene in Jackson's room in the final minutes before paramedics arrived.
Jackson's death at age 50 was ruled a homicide caused by an overdose of the powerful anesthetic propofol and other sedatives.
The possibility that Murray may have tried to hide evidence is likely to be a focus as prosecutors move ahead with their involuntary manslaughter case against him.
Alvarez told police he arrived at Jackson's home around 10:20 a.m. He was awaiting instructions for the day in a security trailer outside Jackson's rented mansion when, at 12:17 p.m., his phone rang. It was Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams, who said Jackson was in trouble.
Alvarez said he was "frozen and stunned" when he saw Jackson on the bed.
Murray then grabbed a few vials with rubber tops and told Alvarez to put them in a bag, Alvarez told investigators. Alvarez picked up a plastic bag from the floor and Murray put the bottles inside, then Murray told Alvarez to put that plastic bag inside a brown canvas bag, according to the account.
Alvarez said Murray then told him to remove an IV bag from a stand and put it in a blue canvas bag. He did, and noticed the bag had a connector with a milky white substance in it. Alvarez didn't say what happened to the bags, nor did he identify what was in the vials.
Two days after Jackson's death, under several hours of questioning by police, Murray eventually directed them to a closet in Jackson's bedroom. In it, they found propofol and other sedatives in a bag.
Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, rejected the notion his client tried to hide drugs. He also noted Alvarez was interviewed twice by police and gave different accounts of what happened in Jackson's bedroom. During the first interview, Alvarez did not mention being told to tidy away medicine vials.
"He wasn't putting bottles in a bag and trying to hide them," Chernoff said. "We are confident that a fair trial will ferret out the truth."
On the day Jackson died, Murray waited until the bags were filled before telling Alvarez to call 911, according to Alvarez's statement.
The documents also detail an odd encounter with Murray after Jackson was declared dead at a nearby hospital. Murray insisted he needed to return to the mansion to get cream that Jackson had "so the world wouldn't find out about it," according to the statements, which provide no elaboration.
Alvarez and the others who gave the statements, Williams and driver/bodyguard Faheem Muhammad, could be key witnesses should Murray go to trial. Except for the brief appearances by the nanny and the children, Alvarez and Muhammad were the only others in the room with Murray as he tried to save Jackson before paramedics arrived.
Murray, 57, a cardiologist licensed in Nevada, California and Texas, has acknowledged briefly leaving Jackson's bedside the day he died but maintained from the outset that nothing he gave the singer should have killed him. It wasn't illegal for him to administer propofol, though whether he followed proper procedures while Jackson was under the influence is a key part of the case.
California Attorney General Jerry Brown's office has asked a court to suspend Murray's license pending the outcome of criminal proceedings against him.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7610#p124192 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7610#p124192)
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I found a couple of interesting videos when working on my YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6g5ajoM ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6g5ajoMe7Y&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlfXi6no ... T4&index=2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlfXi6nobNk&feature=BF&list=FLM7ZaJH2syT4&index=2)
Especially the second video, where Michael says he likes to improve on eveyrthing he does. He is really innovative. That is what we are all involved in now. Something really innovative--more innovative than anything Michael has done before now.
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Wow, it was great to watch these vids, thanks Fita for sharing.
We should change our way of thinking more the way like Michael does: "If the whole world says no, you say YES"..... Do we need anything else to add? Great and innovative people through history always used their minds just like Michael, they don't focus on what's impossible, but how to make it still happen. Most of us can't think like this, that's why always questioning ourselves all the time despite of all the clues, is there anyone who is able to pull this off?? Well, i guess there is.... ;)
We all had/have ups and downs and during these days we should indeed go on and not forget about what we've experienced so far. Stay strong and believe in your intuition and feelings and the happenings you see with your own eyes.
And Sinderella thanks for your hard work and time, it's highly appreciated and i know you don't do this for getting applause from people, but still thanks!
I found a couple of interesting videos when working on my YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6g5ajoM ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6g5ajoMe7Y&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlfXi6no ... T4&index=2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlfXi6nobNk&feature=BF&list=FLM7ZaJH2syT4&index=2)
Especially the second video, where Michael says he likes to improve on eveyrthing he does. He is really innovative. That is what we are all involved in now. Something really innovative--more innovative than anything Michael has done before now.
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Honestly, I didn't mean for it to sound sarcastic. I sincerely meant to say thank you for all the hard work and for sacrificing the time to put this all into one place. It's very generous of you.
I apologise,I was tired and it just sounded like you were being funny with me.
You're welcome,and thank you for your contributions to the forum as well =]
In other news....
What do you do when you're up on manslaughter (man's laughter) charges for taking the life of the most famous man in the world,have people testifying against you inc the mother of your child,face years in prison.....
You go hang out and drink coffee in Santa Monica,in public and not give a shit about the dead mans fans possibly attacking you obviously.
This was yesterday
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs001.snc6/165148_179002665467344_100000728352948_453786_6117524_n.jpg)
PS. I also spot a can of Coca Cola there....#justsayin
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That pic should be shopped or before June 25th 2009 :?
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Could this work/be a way out/put an end to this nonsense....possibly...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs001.snc6/165148_179002665467344_100000728352948_453786_6117524_n.jpg
DEAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON DOCTOR
9th January 2011
By Mike Parker and Dominik Lemanski
MICHAEL Jackson’s doctor could walk free from court if he accepts responsibility for the star’s death.
Lawyers believe Conrad Murray is being “pushed towards” admitting his guilt over the singer’s demise.
And he could escape with a suspended sentence if he strikes a plea bargain.
The cardiologist, right, has denied involuntary manslaughter in relation to Jacko’s death.
But he admits supplying him with powerful hospital drug propofol.
The 57-year-old, who was the star’s personal doctor, said Jackson gave himself the overdose that caused his death.
Lawyer Truc Do last night claimed the Los Angeles District Attorney’s Office opted for a two-week “full-blown” hearing rather than a “bare bones” two-day version in an attempt to urge Murray to accept a plea bargain.
She said: “They are hoping that an overwhelming display of evidence might push him into considering a plea deal. Hearing all the prosecution evidence in advance of a trial can be a real reality check.”
A string of witnesses have already challenged Dr Murray’s version of events on June 25, 2009, the day Jackson died in his bed in the exclusive Holmby Hills area of Los Angeles, aged 50. Richard Senneff, the first paramedic to see the singer’s lifeless body, said he believed Dr Murray was lying about what drugs the star had taken.
Further expert testimony over the next week during the preliminary hearing is expected to be even more damning, a spokesman for the DA’s Office revealed last night.
Attorney Do said Dr Murray could feel “so overwhelmed” by the end of a second week that he may accept a plea deal rather than face the prospect of being tried before a jury.
If convicted by a jury Dr Murray faces up to four years’ jail, the maximum under California law for involuntary manslaughter.
But if the West Indian-born heart specialist accepts a plea deal he could walk free with a suspended sentence.
This would also please the Jackson family who want to avoid the singer’s eldest child Prince Michael having to go through the trauma of a trial.
But as we exclusively revealed last week, the 13-year-old is likely to be called to testify at the pre-trial hearing in the next few days.
Meanwhile, sources close to the Jackson family said they are becoming increasingly angry at some of the evidence that has been emerging during the court hearing.
Remember it is a trashy tabloid,but it is something to think about.
Also,feel free to complain about the use of 'Jacko' being used frequently when his name is Michael Jackson.
Use it..or don't say anything about him at all.
That pic should be shopped or before June 25th 2009
It was taken by a fan yesterday,she lives in LA.
Didn't realise it had cut the date/time off...I will get it in full now.
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http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak- ... 7524_n.jpg (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs001.snc6/165148_179002665467344_100000728352948_453786_6117524_n.jpg)
That should work.
I wouldn't post it if I thought it had been 'shopped or taken pre 2011
I am not down with photoshopped pictures.
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"If convicted by a jury Dr Murray faces up to four years’ jail, the maximum under California law for involuntary manslaughter.
But if the West Indian-born heart specialist accepts a plea deal he could walk free with a suspended sentence".
What dies that mean, If Murray accepts he is guilty it means he will walk free? :?
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:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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I just find a bit odd seing Murray "relaxed" after the storm that is waiting for him.
Also, I read comments from TMZ. People write "If I see Murray i will kill him" and similar quotes :? I mean, people (some fans) can really lose a screw and shoot him or harm him :?
Today was a video in TMZ were Murray bought a baloon to a little girl.
Murray is moving everywhere an people do not recognize him?
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I don't worry so much for Doc Murray. I think he's somewhere safe.
First the courtrooms have a chopper landing place or a backdoor and second nobody can convince me that he is being filmed or photographed today if I don't see a newspaper of the actual date in his hands. I think all visual material was shot beforehand.
Harvey, it's your turn... ;)
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"If convicted by a jury Dr Murray faces up to four years’ jail, the maximum under California law for involuntary manslaughter.
But if the West Indian-born heart specialist accepts a plea deal he could walk free with a suspended sentence".
What dies that mean, If Murray accepts he is guilty it means he will walk free? :?
Minister 'Got Away With Murder
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1126705/ (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1126705/)
Rockingham, N.C. — A plea deal that allows a minister who killed his wife to serve no more than seven years in prison amounts to getting away with murder, the Richmond County sheriff said Thursday.
Melvin Bynum, 45, pleaded guilty Wednesday to voluntary manslaughter in the strangulation death of 40-year-old Marnita Bynum, his wife of 19 years.
Authorities found the body of Marnita Bynum, a substitute teacher, in the trunk of her Chrysler Sebring convertible, which had been abandoned on a rural road north of Hamlet on Aug. 2, 2004.
Under his plea agreement, Bynum was sentenced to 64 to 86 months in prison. He has already spent more than two years behind bars, having been held in the Richmond County Jail since his arrest in September 2004.
Judge David Lee on Tuesday rejected a plea agreement that would have carried a sentence of no more than five years in prison. Lee said he wanted more discretion in sentencing after listening to testimony from Marnita Bynum's relatives about the impact of her slaying.
Bynum, the pastor of Cry Out Loud Ministries in Sanford, originally was charged with first-degree murder in the case and could have faced the death penalty if convicted on that charge.
Richmond County Sheriff Dale Furr, who led the investigation into Marnita Bynum's death, said he protested the plea deal when prosecutors informed him about it earlier this week. Investigators had compiled enough evidence to convict Bynum of first-degree murder, he said.
"I strongly opposed that plan," Furr said of the plea deal. “(It says) that you can possibly get away with murder. That's exactly what happened.”
The prosecutor handling the case was concerned that a key witness refused to testify against Bynum, Furr said. However, he said he believes the witness would have testified if she faced charges in the case.
“I think she possibly could have and would have been charged as an accessory,” Furr said.
Richmond County District Attorney Michael Parker issued a statement late Tuesday defending the decision to offer Bynum a deal in the case.
"Although a massive investigation was conducted into Ms. Bynum's death, neither the sheriff's office nor the state can manufacture evidence. We can only present what is found," the statement said. "The defendant's plea to voluntary manslaughter is consistent with the facts provable by the state, given the circumstances surrounding Marnita's death."
Peg Dorer of the North Carolina Conference of District Attorneys said it's not necessarily what someone thinks, but what can be proven in court. Some cases lack credible witnesses or physical evidence, she said.
“Sometimes cases 'go south.' At that point, DAs must salvage what they can,” Dorer said.
Furr said he realizes the case is the DA's to prosecute, but he said investigators should have gotten a chance to make the case against Bynum. That chance has passed.
"It's over with,” he said.
Looks like, a plea would ease the sentence
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I don't really understand what you're saying,this was uploaded to facebook and IS from yesterday.She is quite a 'famous' non believer,it wasn't just taken by a random fan.
They have his apartment details and everything.
Why is it hard to believe?Surely it gives more proof this isn't real?If he ISN'T in hiding..
He was out shopping at Nordstrom on Jan 5th
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/06/dr-conrad-murray-katherine-jackson-michael-jackson-manslaughter-prelim-nordstroms/
Jan 3rd he was photographed going to the steak house,i'm pretty sure the name came up in the prelim questions this week....after this was taken.
EXC PICS: Dr. Conrad Murray was snapped heading to Houston’s steakhouse in Santa Monica with his family. Murray is currently awaiting trial for the death of Michael Jackson.
(http://flashcity.com/wp-content/uploads/FC_EXC_Dr-Conrad-Murray-2.jpg)
http://flashcity.com/
Also real,no security, no newspaper.
If you don't believe it's recent then I won't try and sway you otherwise,but he is being spotted by people other than TMZ-who aren't all that reliable as we know.
and I know fans can get scary dangerous and attack him but tbh,most non believers just want to see him go to prison..he won't if he gets 'whacked' before that might happen.
A plea and deal would=No full trial.This would stop after the prelim.
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I have pasted KO's comments below and highlighted what I found to be curious. KO says that MJ did not look well and was chilled and soft spoken but yet asked if he needed to go home to be with his family. If MJ was "sick" would it not have been more appropriate to ask if he just needed to go home and get some rest? The reason I find this curious is could it be that MJ was upset and anxious over the "illusion" that was to begin on June 25th and the fact that he knew what was going to happen and therefore the chills and soft-spoken behaviour were simply brought on by the nerves of an anxious man? Maybe KO wanted MJ to go home and spend time with his family so that he could find comfort and encouragement for the decision he was about to make. Maybe he just needed more assurance that everything was going to be ok. I would think that planning an event as huge as making the world believe that you are dead could put a lot of stress on a person. I am speculating I know but I am just trying to think outside of the box as to his wording.
KENNY ORTEGA
Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson’s home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.
Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.
Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.
"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."
Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.
"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."
The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.
"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."
Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.
He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.
"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said.
On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.
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On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.
When I read that I understood it to mean that Chernoff was say OR insinuating that
Murray was trying to ween Michael off of some of the drugs he may have been taking....if that is the case.....it appears that Murray was replacing them
with or perhaps cutting MJ down from what he had been taking larger doses of
or that will be what his attorney's will plead if this goes to trial.
Regardless....if this was NOT a hoax....it was an Epic FAIL on Murray's and AEG's part.
The whole thing makes me mad just thinking about it.
(http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/1801641d6380cecfb92429c2d4e25bce23514a9d.gif)
My argument for MJ would be Why?
What a STUPID thing to do!
Especially right before the mega come back tour in over a decade!..
not ONLY that but ALL that was at stake for him....
Michael had to be scared to death!
Oh and lest I forget [it happens-lol] thanks for the welcome!
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On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.
When I read that I understood it to mean that Chernoff was say OR insinuating that
Murray was trying to ween Michael off of some of the drugs he may have been taking....if that is the case.....it appears that Murray was replacing them
with or perhaps cutting MJ down from what he had been taking larger doses of
or that will be what his attorney's will plead if this goes to trial.
Regardless....if this was NOT a hoax....it was an Epic FAIL on Murray's and AEG's part.
The whole thing makes me mad just thinking about it.
(http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/1801641d6380cecfb92429c2d4e25bce23514a9d.gif)
My argument for MJ would be Why?
What a STUPID thing to do!
Especially right before the mega come back tour in over a decade!..
not ONLY that but ALL that was at stake for him....
Michael had to be scared to death!
Oh and lest I forget [it happens-lol] thanks for the welcome!
Murray could have very well been weaning Michael off of some of the drugs and replacing them with others..I think if someone is chronically addicted to prescribed meds it may not be possible for them to come off all drugs altogether..It certainly wouldn't be possible to just stop the meds either as Michael would have probably gone into convulsions and the withdrawals alone could have killed him anyway.
I am remembering all that I read about Elvis Presley and his doctor and how his doctor would take Elvis off of some meds and replace them with other ones..Maybe ones that were not as strong..I will have to go over all my Elvis books again...Remarkable really how alike this case is to the Elvis death..
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Butterfly Pin on Katherine's lapel.
Credit esprit467
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/Butterfly.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/Butterfly2.jpg)
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I have pasted KO's comments below and highlighted what I found to be curious. KO says that MJ did not look well and was chilled and soft spoken but yet asked if he needed to go home to be with his family. If MJ was "sick" would it not have been more appropriate to ask if he just needed to go home and get some rest? The reason I find this curious is could it be that MJ was upset and anxious over the "illusion" that was to begin on June 25th and the fact that he knew what was going to happen and therefore the chills and soft-spoken behaviour were simply brought on by the nerves of an anxious man? Maybe KO wanted MJ to go home and spend time with his family so that he could find comfort and encouragement for the decision he was about to make. Maybe he just needed more assurance that everything was going to be ok. I would think that planning an event as huge as making the world believe that you are dead could put a lot of stress on a person. I am speculating I know but I am just trying to think outside of the box as to his wording.
I picked up on this strange wording as well. If I'm not well at work, I'm told to get home to bed, not to 'be with my family'! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me - speculation I know, but so is almost everything around here!
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Just to say day's 3/4 have been finished and sent to souza, she will put them up when she can.
As for Kenny...I find it strange he was only up there for such a short amount of time,they kept Murray's 'gf' up there longer.Surely the man who is working on his 'tour'/movie and has seen him more or less everyday is going to give more of an insight into how he seemed,behaved,what he ate,what his moods were like,work effort etc than anyone else.
They just didn't appear to question him in a way I would deem correct for a manslaughter prelim.
I was talking to Ms Forst yesterday and we ended up discussing the consequences of all this,legally.Not to get into it because I think there is enough going on at the moment for people to read through and understand without bringing in other things but we discussed the possible idea that everyone up there is actually telling the truth.
No one has yet said it was M.J.Jackson.Only Michael Jackson.
No one of credibility has stood up yet and said I saw his body it was 100% THE Michael Jackson.
No one has provided photo evidence since 2009-i'm sure if they had this forum would not exist.
They have only said they worked on someone by the name of Michael Jackson,now although this is his name,if someone had agreed to 'donate' their body and change their name(which honestly is not hard to do and there have been stranger name change requests like my friend changing his surname to Skywalker-TRUE STORY) say,in agreement that in return their loved ones/family left behind would be given a pretty hefty sum of money,their funeral would be paid for,etc then technically,everyone who has given evidence is telling the truth.They did work on a body,his initials were MJ and he did infact die.
This would also then explain the information on the AR being wrong-but it wasn't wrong for the person who did get taken in that day.Brown hair,wrong height,scars missing from details,etc.
They have only said he was pale and thin-but so are millions of people.
Kai never saw him at all on June 25th,infact no one did apart from Murray and Alvarez who have both only either refered to a body or to Michael Jackson.
I went to highschool with a Michael Jackson,if he had of had an accident in class and I came home and said Michael Jackson had an awful accident today people would assume I meant the moonwalking Michael Jackson and i'd heard it on the news when in reality it was a 15yr old in school.
The paramedic admitted on the stand that he overheard in the ambulance that it was Michael Jackson he had just tried to revive and it was only then he realised the request for a sheet to be put over his face-so while in the house..he musn't of even recognised him...which im sorry,I don't believe to be possible.
He also said that outside the house there was a lot of media "big and small cameras,there were a lot" so where is all the footage?where are the pictures?These paparazzi do this as a living,this is the biggest story of 2009,it would be VITAL to get that shot,any shot of what was going on...but magically..there is non.They don't seem to have a problem the rest of the time when they snap him through windows in restaurants and zoom in on him from inside bushes down the street....but outside his house,they never got a single shot. AMAZING.
He wasn't seen much before June,only on odd trips out-mostly medical and he had a mask on.Everyone on earth knows he changes his look/image on a yearly basis so really no one could 100% say they knew what he looked like on June 25th for sure.
As we know he was not seen in or around Carolwood,I don't think ever-there is a thread on it by WYHS,I don't know what the outcome was on it but I think it was that no one had ever seen him there,and it was more than likely rented for this purpose.
He wasn't really seen in LA in 2009,only now and again.Is there any pictures of him walking into staples or out?looking tired after '16hour days' not that I'm aware of.
I do not believe he would do al of this only to face legal consequences afterwards,and the possibility of jail for a multitude of things,it would be pointless.
Give the man some credit,I mean he planned this,I don't think he'd risk losing his children at the end of it.
No one has to agree to any of this,it was just something we were talking about last night and sounds pretty probable when looking at consequences in the wake of all of this.
It is his estate also to hand over to anyone he likes so he won't get in any trouble for that.Nor for making $$$ off his death because as I said in a previous comment non has been made from the fact.His taxes are paid,his debts have been paid off using money his own products have made and his children are well cared for by their family.
Man's laughter
prop fool
A sad Ending
haha...
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Amazing post Sinderella, bravo, it really makes a lot of sense
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Man's laughter
prop fool
A sad Ending
haha...
Don't forget about Connie: Murder by contract :lol: :lol:
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What if it isn't a real trial (of course, it isn't) but, in fact, a filmset? A staged court hearing to look like the real one but in fact - done for the film? I mean, not real? They hire a room in the actual court, engage actors and make a show, a performance? :?
Is it possible? What do you think? :?
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Amazing post Sinderella, bravo, it really makes a lot of sense
Thank you =]
Made sense to me,it isn't impossible infact it is more possible than a lot of other scenarios, so,thought i'd share.
The Judge is very real.The lawyers are real,the UCLA paramedics and Dr's are real and the LAPD detectives are real.
It is of course possible to hire a courtroom for film purposes-it's Hollywood but the people in that court are not actors.
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Even if he were weaning him off of the prescrip meds, it is still cruel and inhumane to make him go to work and rehearse as usual. He is not a robot. He deserves the same care as aynbody else being weaned off medications. a day or two of rest. I don’t like this at all :evil: Still shows absolutely no compassion and not in the best interest of Michael as a patient.
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Mel that **** kicked me out of the chat cause I kept saying MJ´s alive and saying that they are ignorant fools cause they hate us and they ain´t following MJ´s words like being kind to each other and so on. I am very outraged at the moment. WE ALSO LOVE HIM!!!! IF NOT EVEN MORE!!! CAUSE WE CANNOT ACCEPT HIM BEING GONE AT ALL!!! WE ARE LOOKING FOR REAL EVIDENCE!!!! THEY ALL LET HIM GO :cry: THEY ARE LIVING THEIR LIVES, THEY ARE ONLY FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE WHICH WOULD NEVER BRING HIM BACK. WHEN THEY GET THEIR JUSTICE THEY WILL BE FREE AND WE - WE WILL BE STILL HURTING AND LOOKING WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON THAT SAD DAY 25. JUNE!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: I AM SO HURT AND I DON`T KNOW IF I SHOULD LISTEN TO HER CHANNEL OR NOT!! THAT WOMAN CALLS US NAMES AND THEY ARE SO ARROGANT IN THAT CHAT!!! THE WORST THING IS THAT THEY THINK THEY REALLY LOVE MJ AND ARE FOLLOWING HIS WORDS!!! AS IF IT`S NOT HARD ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
SORRY FOR THE CABS!!! I AM SO HEARTBROKEN AT THE MOMENT AND I NEEDED TO LET IT OUT!!! SORRY SORRY SORRY, GUYZ. :cry:
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Mel that **** kicked me out of the chat cause I kept saying MJ´s alive and saying that they are ignorant fools cause they hate us and they ain´t following MJ´s words like being kind to each other and so on. I am very outraged at the moment. WE ALSO LOVE HIM!!!! IF NOT EVEN MORE!!! CAUSE WE CANNOT ACCEPT HIM BEING GONE AT ALL!!! WE ARE LOOKING FOR REAL EVIDENCE!!!! THEY ALL LET HIM GO :cry: THEY ARE LIVING THEIR LIVES, THEY ARE ONLY FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE WHICH WOULD NEVER BRING HIM BACK. WHEN THEY GET THEIR JUSTICE THEY WILL BE FREE AND WE - WE WILL BE STILL HURTING AND LOOKING WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON THAT SAD DAY 25. JUNE!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: I AM SO HURT AND I DON`T KNOW IF I SHOULD LISTEN TO HER CHANNEL OR NOT!! THAT WOMAN CALLS US NAMES AND THEY ARE SO ARROGANT IN THAT CHAT!!! THE WORST THING IS THAT THEY THINK THEY REALLY LOVE MJ AND ARE FOLLOWING HIS WORDS!!! AS IF IT`S NOT HARD ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
SORRY FOR THE CABS!!! I AM SO HEARTBROKEN AT THE MOMENT AND I NEEDED TO LET IT OUT!!! SORRY SORRY SORRY, GUYZ. :cry:
I'm with you; i understand very well and it hurts me too to see how they call us. I'm on their chat too but i keep low. There's no point in saying i'm a believer...I'm not trying to convince "walls"; that's how they are behaving; they dont listen to anything that doesnt fit their description of the truth, even if it's not related to the hoax. Anyway, I'm just gonna ignore the believers related comments and just listen for new info. If that's why you were listening for I think you still should and ignore the nasty comments. Besides, these people will not even LISTEN to the reasons we believe he's alive; do you really think that saying he's alive and they are ignorant is gonna make any of them wake up?!
Stay cool and enjoy the ride!
(with)LOVE!
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Sorry what chat are you talking about?
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Sorry what chat are you talking about?
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/conrad-mu ... k-in-court (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/conrad-murray-back-in-court)
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Just to say day's 3/4 have been finished and sent to souza, she will put them up when she can.
As for Kenny...I find it strange he was only up there for such a short amount of time,they kept Murray's 'gf' up there longer.Surely the man who is working on his 'tour'/movie and has seen him more or less everyday is going to give more of an insight into how he seemed,behaved,what he ate,what his moods were like,work effort etc than anyone else.
They just didn't appear to question him in a way I would deem correct for a manslaughter prelim.
I was talking to Ms Forst yesterday and we ended up discussing the consequences of all this,legally.Not to get into it because I think there is enough going on at the moment for people to read through and understand without bringing in other things but we discussed the possible idea that everyone up there is actually telling the truth.
No one has yet said it was M.J.Jackson.Only Michael Jackson.
No one of credibility has stood up yet and said I saw his body it was 100% THE Michael Jackson.
No one has provided photo evidence since 2009-i'm sure if they had this forum would not exist.
They have only said they worked on someone by the name of Michael Jackson,now although this is his name,if someone had agreed to 'donate' their body and change their name(which honestly is not hard to do and there have been stranger name change requests like my friend changing his surname to Skywalker-TRUE STORY) say,in agreement that in return their loved ones/family left behind would be given a pretty hefty sum of money,their funeral would be paid for,etc then technically,everyone who has given evidence is telling the truth.They did work on a body,his initials were MJ and he did infact die.
This would also then explain the information on the AR being wrong-but it wasn't wrong for the person who did get taken in that day.Brown hair,wrong height,scars missing from details,etc.
They have only said he was pale and thin-but so are millions of people.
Kai never saw him at all on June 25th,infact no one did apart from Murray and Alvarez who have both only either refered to a body or to Michael Jackson.
I went to highschool with a Michael Jackson,if he had of had an accident in class and I came home and said Michael Jackson had an awful accident today people would assume I meant the moonwalking Michael Jackson and i'd heard it on the news when in reality it was a 15yr old in school.
The paramedic admitted on the stand that he overheard in the ambulance that it was Michael Jackson he had just tried to revive and it was only then he realised the request for a sheet to be put over his face-so while in the house..he musn't of even recognised him...which im sorry,I don't believe to be possible.
He also said that outside the house there was a lot of media "big and small cameras,there were a lot" so where is all the footage?where are the pictures?These paparazzi do this as a living,this is the biggest story of 2009,it would be VITAL to get that shot,any shot of what was going on...but magically..there is non.They don't seem to have a problem the rest of the time when they snap him through windows in restaurants and zoom in on him from inside bushes down the street....but outside his house,they never got a single shot. AMAZING.
He wasn't seen much before June,only on odd trips out-mostly medical and he had a mask on.Everyone on earth knows he changes his look/image on a yearly basis so really no one could 100% say they knew what he looked like on June 25th for sure.
As we know he was not seen in or around Carolwood,I don't think ever-there is a thread on it by WYHS,I don't know what the outcome was on it but I think it was that no one had ever seen him there,and it was more than likely rented for this purpose.
He wasn't really seen in LA in 2009,only now and again.Is there any pictures of him walking into staples or out?looking tired after '16hour days' not that I'm aware of.
I do not believe he would do al of this only to face legal consequences afterwards,and the possibility of jail for a multitude of things,it would be pointless.
Give the man some credit,I mean he planned this,I don't think he'd risk losing his children at the end of it.
No one has to agree to any of this,it was just something we were talking about last night and sounds pretty probable when looking at consequences in the wake of all of this.
It is his estate also to hand over to anyone he likes so he won't get in any trouble for that.Nor for making $$$ off his death because as I said in a previous comment non has been made from the fact.His taxes are paid,his debts have been paid off using money his own products have made and his children are well cared for by their family.
Man's laughter
prop fool
A sad Ending
haha...
There certainly is a lot to digest in that post. You're probably very close to the whole truth there...
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Lady J u took words out of my mouth, i hear ya :| but who really cares what she or others like her think about us?! She thinks that what she's doing is right, well, we think just the opposite, just don't pay attention to them, the truth will prevail, it always does and we'll see who was right, who not, keep the faith, at least we are not sitting back and calling Murray murderer or badmouthing him, we are investigating, and i'm sure we will succeed soon, may God help us to find the truth
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Anyone who uses Michael's image,name and legacy to promote their own personal activities,use him to 'raise money',who use him to get to his fans who will be part of anything that has his face on,and who use it to fight in some sort of fan war over who loves him the most,who makes the most money using him,who blast each other OVER him on the internet leading to restraining orders and so on and so on and SO ON are to be pittied and no offense to you,but your wasting your time arguing on a stream that is full of these people and put their entire faith in 'famous' fans who run J4MJ and people like Karen fucking Faye.
They don't see things how believers see or they would be on this forum.
They can call believers names,at least I go to sleep knowing I never just swindled money out of his fans for some 'cause' I believe he'd want to support..with no proof and no confirmation from the Jackson family he would want to be associated with it!!
They are ignorant,they are rude and this LOVE they fight for does not seem to exist,the only people who gain anything from it,is them.
Michael is selfless,and it isn't what he believes in at all.I don't think he'd approve of some so called fans using his face to make a few $$$ and getting investigated for fraud because another fan has accused them.They are all ridiculous and have zero shame.
It is beyond my comprehension they actually believe they are helping him.
Leaving a million teddy bears at FL makes them feel better...well believing he is sat somewhere laughing at the fact he pulled off the greatest illusion of all time makes me feel better.
Each to their own.
If you are starting to doubt,go back and look at everything again,im 99% sure you will end up back on this forum.
No one has ever said he will definitley be back,and personally I am ok with that as much as I am with him making a comeback,I'm at peace with it and if he doesn't I hope he achieved what he set out to do and is happy-Michael deserves to be happy.
Obviously I would prefer the latter-without question,but I also understand the wrath he would face from the world which have caused him so much grief and sadness already,I know a good % would never understand,and you can't win 'em all even if you are Michael Jackson-he is only human.It might seem like too much,he might not want to face up to it,he might like being just Michael and not Michael Jackson,he might not be able to-it might have all gone too far,who knows?Only him.
It's always been his decision and his alone,just because fans want him to reappear,doesn't mean he will-but that does not mean he is not alive.
The two are very very different.
Fans wanting him to come back is natural,they miss him but it's also very selfish and based around them feeling better about it all,not whether it makes him happy to be under the worlds microscope again.This isn't wrong,it's just life.
These are my own thoughts,I do not expect anyone to agree,i'm just giving my thoughts on it.
I can only suggest,out of love,that you maybe try to look at it like all of what you know indicates he is alive and can't possibly be dead,instead of his coming back.That way if he does,it will only be a bonus and be a cherry on the cake.Be strong and rise above it-MJ style.
@encinogirl I know,sorry haha I am writing massive essays today to everyone about everything.Personally,to me it makes the most sense,and is probably one of the only ways he could not get into any sort of legal trouble for doing what he did.
S xo
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Sorry what chat are you talking about?
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/conrad-mu ... k-in-court (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/conrad-murray-back-in-court)
Thank you :)
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LadyJ your comments go straight to my heart since this is totally how I feel as well. All we can do is love each other here and pray for truth and our angel's return if it is to be. God knows how much we love him and those other people hopefully will see the error of their ways eventually. Even if Michael has passed away we have an angel always by our sides and we do not have to let him go. I get so tired of hearing the non believers saying "it's time to move on" or "let him go". Like they want to be rid of him or something, almost like he is a burden. We can hold him close forever without wallowing in pity or sadness!!! Let his love shine forever and surround us, his words, spirit and music live forever and smile when we feel his warmth!!! He is infinite alive or in heaven so never think we have to let him go.
Hugs and love
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Mel that **** kicked me out of the chat cause I kept saying MJ´s alive and saying that they are ignorant fools cause they hate us and they ain´t following MJ´s words like being kind to each other and so on. I am very outraged at the moment. WE ALSO LOVE HIM!!!! IF NOT EVEN MORE!!! CAUSE WE CANNOT ACCEPT HIM BEING GONE AT ALL!!! WE ARE LOOKING FOR REAL EVIDENCE!!!! THEY ALL LET HIM GO :cry: THEY ARE LIVING THEIR LIVES, THEY ARE ONLY FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE WHICH WOULD NEVER BRING HIM BACK. WHEN THEY GET THEIR JUSTICE THEY WILL BE FREE AND WE - WE WILL BE STILL HURTING AND LOOKING WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON THAT SAD DAY 25. JUNE!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: I AM SO HURT AND I DON`T KNOW IF I SHOULD LISTEN TO HER CHANNEL OR NOT!! THAT WOMAN CALLS US NAMES AND THEY ARE SO ARROGANT IN THAT CHAT!!! THE WORST THING IS THAT THEY THINK THEY REALLY LOVE MJ AND ARE FOLLOWING HIS WORDS!!! AS IF IT`S NOT HARD ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
SORRY FOR THE CABS!!! I AM SO HEARTBROKEN AT THE MOMENT AND I NEEDED TO LET IT OUT!!! SORRY SORRY SORRY, GUYZ. :cry:
I agree that many non-believers are not acting in a way that Michael would appreciate, but if you really kept calling them ignorant fools, maybe that is why they kicked you out of the chat. I would just try not to let them entice you, although I realize how difficult that can be sometimes with some of the non-believers.
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This was yesterday
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs001.snc6/165148_179002665467344_100000728352948_453786_6117524_n.jpg)
PS. I also spot a can of Coca Cola there....#justsayin
Shot from "Behind the Bushes".
Focus on: "Mannequins"
Behind the Bushes
Chronology of a family:
http://prorev.com/bush.htm
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush2.htm
One could use the phrase “hiding in the bushes” as a way to describe those who choose to keep their deepest and most authentic thoughts, yearnings, desires and passions, to themselves.
http://www.wel-systems.com/articles/HidingInBushes.htm
The man "behind the bushes" is an extremely desperate man.
"Bush men" hide in/under/behind bushes waiting for unsuspecting victims.
Mannequins:
A mannequin (also called a mannekin, mannikin, manikin, dummy, or lay figure) is an often articulated doll used by artists, tailors, dressmakers, and others especially to display or fit clothing. During the 1950s, mannequins were also used in nuclear tests to help illustrate the effects of nuclear weapons on human beings.[1][2] The term is also used for life-sized dolls with simulated airways used in the teaching of first aid, CPR, and advanced airway management skills such as tracheal intubation and for human figures used in computer simulation to model the behaviour of the human body.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannequin
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WE ALSO LOVE HIM!!!! IF NOT EVEN MORE!!! CAUSE WE CANNOT ACCEPT HIM BEING GONE AT ALL!!! WE ARE LOOKING FOR REAL EVIDENCE!!!! THEY ALL LET HIM GO :cry:
I understand your rage and my advice is to not let such thigs get you on your nerves to burst like this. I am a very volcanic person and I often have such explosions. Yes, we love him.. we love him and even more than they all scream out they do. Because we didn't accept what was given and fought for our Michael and we're keeping his back
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If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.
(http://extrememichaeljackson.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/michaeljacksonm_j_rookt.jpg)
Although he wasn't shown smoking in many pictures doesn't mean that he didn't smoked or hung around people who smoked. Frank Dileo usually has a cigar on him. It is also very possible that After this picture of Michael was released he went to great length to conceal his smoking habit much like Obama has.
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As a quick aside, I just went on the chat site and was told to "take a walk", charming :evil:
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what happens to all of you?? I mean, excuse me, but why are you all interested in that chat? Is he/she some sort of important people? No, he/she is just someone who WANTS to look like one and it's lame at this point in time.
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It has always baffled and bewildered me to see the anger and outright hate directed at believers. It's sad.
On a different subject: I read on twitter that some kind of CD rom was presented with supposed privilegded informatio- does anyone have details?
Also, is it true Jermaine is at the hearing today? If so, guess he was "unstuck" from bring in Africa..;)
Sorry- sitting here at work trying to check in in-between is soooo limited!
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@Grace Im sorry,I still don't see what your trying to say.
As I said this was taken by a non believer on Saturday while they were following him around trying to get info.They only see Murray,not giving a shit,and openly sitting around in public which is an outrage not what we see ie bushes and the the coke can etc.
Maybe he sat there for a reason but who know's.
In other news,this piece of information just came out,more asap
"There were attachments from AEG in the email and it was a cancelation policy,There were also emails forwarded from the insurance company and they were sent back and forth regarding company officials rep MJ and AEG."
[/b]
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If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.
(http://extrememichaeljackson.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/michaeljacksonm_j_rookt.jpg)
Although he wasn't shown smoking in many pictures doesn't mean that he didn't smoked or hung around people who smoked. Frank Dileo usually has a cigar on him. It is also very possible that After this picture of Michael was released he went to great length to conceal his smoking habit much like Obama has.
I'm not going to say MJ did or did not smoke, that is not my place, but I do note that even though he is pictured holding a cigarette that it is not lit. In addition to that it seems to me that the autopsy was missing a lot of other information that we all do know to be fact. One large thing that jumps out at me is the Pepsi burn accident, I don't recall reading about any significant scarring of his scalp in the report. Did I miss something?
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Besides this photo with the cigg not lit, can you post here the rest of the photos of Michael with a cigg in his hand? In my whole life I've never came across such photos (and it's a lifetime since I love him) besides this one where he's actually not smoking. No one knows if he smoked or if he's smoking now and it's irritating to see stories made around the issue. In my opinion he didn and he's not smoking.
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Sinderella, I do not think that Doc Murray does not know about the stalkers.
He knows he is in the focus.
I cannot believe that from all other pictures that we were presented, the scenery was not being planned to the inch. I cannot believe that in this scene the setup is not planned to the inch.
We are talking about storybook and running from scene to scene, breathless, since the theater changes so fast the stage acts. It's like wandering in a museum from room to room and discovering new art, details, amazing features again and again.
This happens to us as well - just that the museum is the world and that the TIMING of the modifications is exhausting to us because we have not yet adapted to the speed of action.
A professional dancer will not be exhausted whereas a beginner will ask after 5 minutes "will I ever get there"?
This is about TIME, speed (demon), turning back time, enduring tardiness and patience, waiting, sleeping, measuring time, tick tock, making a time switch, impatience, wanting to have it right here right now like a small child, we are even lurking into future by letting illusion and dream become reality.
This is the greatest theater the world has ever seen.
This is true 4D performance - something the audience has never ever lived before.
Time is the 4th dimension. In the end all these months will seem like a second, as if we just entered the show and already it's over and we will regret and not regret at the same moment.
One of the main characters walks on the street and sits down without thinking about the roundabout? I don't think so.
I think Doc Murray deserves to get a thought as well on this picture as when he was in the barbershop and showed the same T-Shirt with his lawyer later.
We have become TMZ - hoaxer or non-hoaxer, did anyone realize this already?
We now get to shoot the pictures, play Sherlock Holmes, find the mummy and the gravedigger.
I bet it will be the gardener. ;)
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Forgive me if this has been discussed already but look at the words on the window back there where the mannequins are. I think it says "Feel free to Move" meaning to me that Murray or Michael can feel free to move around as they please without worrying about being noticed etc...., and something is just up with this and what it says. I think this is some sort of clue.
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@Grace Im sorry,I still don't see what your trying to say.
As I said this was taken by a non believer on Saturday while they were following him around trying to get info.They only see Murray,not giving a shit,and openly sitting around in public which is an outrage not what we see ie bushes and the the coke can etc.
Maybe he sat there for a reason but who know's.
In other news,this piece of information just came out,more asap
"There were attachments from AEG in the email and it was a cancelation policy,There were also emails forwarded from the insurance company and they were sent back and forth regarding company officials rep MJ and AEG."
[/b]
You sit around in the strangest place,
So take off the mask so I can see your face,
who do you love?
TMZ:
Dr. Conrad Murray -- I 'Love' MJ's Mom
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Yay!!! Brilliant Bec!!! I never associated this before but yeah totally fitting :D
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Pharmacist: Jackson doctor bought 255 vials of anesthetic in months before singer's death
Pharmacist: Jackson doctor bought 255 vials of anesthetic in months before singer's death
A pharmacist testified Monday that the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death bought 255 vials of a powerful anesthetic in the three months before the singer died from a lethal combination of the drug and other sedatives.
Dr. Conrad Murray purchased four shipments of the anesthetic propofol between April 6 and June 10, 2009, said Tim Lopez, owner of Applied Pharmacy Services in Las Vegas, where Murray has a clinic.
Murray bought 130 vials of propofol in 100 milliliter doses and another 125 vials in the smaller dose of 20 milliliters, Lopez said while testifying at a preliminary hearing to determine if there is enough evidence for Murray to stand trial after pleading not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.
A coroner's investigator previously testified that 12 vials of propofol were found in the bedroom and closet of the singer's rented mansion after his death.
Lopez said Murray asked him to ship some of the propofol to an address in Santa Monica, Calif. The address belongs to the doctor's girlfriend, although Lopez testified that Murray told him it was one of his clinics.
Murray also bought other sedatives from Lopez, according to the testimony.
Murray has told police he was concerned Jackson was addicted to propofol, and that he was trying to wean the singer from it.
In other testimony Monday, a retired federal investigator said he had retrieved an e-mail from Murray's cell phone containing an exchange between the doctor and a London insurance broker handling a policy for Jackson's planned series of comeback concerts.
The broker asked Murray on the morning of Jackson's death to address press reports that Jackson was in poor health.
"As far as the statements of his health published by the press, let me say they're all malicious to the best of my knowledge," Murray replied.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor ruled before the hearing began Monday that the information could be introduced as evidence.
Murray's defense attorney, Ed Chernoff, had described some of the data as brief voicemails. He also said there were 12 screenshots found on the phone.
Pastor said some of the information was protected by attorney-client privilege, but most is not.
Prosecutors have used Murray's phone records to help create a detailed timeline of the doctor's actions on the day Jackson died.
Prosecutors were poised to focus on the science of what killed Jackson during the second week of the hearing.
The hearing has included a significant amount of prosecution evidence. Among the witnesses was a bodyguard who said he was told by Murray to place vials of medicine in bags before calling 911.
Paramedics and an emergency-room doctor with a combined 50 years of experience also said they believed the singer died before he was rushed by a paparazzi-hounded ambulance to a nearby hospital, where efforts failed to revive the pop superstar.
Using phone records and testimony from police and Murray's current and former girlfriends, prosecutors have developed the timeline that shows Murray was on the phone throughout the morning of Jackson's death on June 25, 2009, including after administering propofol to the singer.
They hope to convince a judge of several key points: that Murray was distracted when he should have been monitoring Jackson, that he delayed calling 911, that he botched CPR efforts and that the singer was dead before help was summoned.
The remainder of the hearing was likely to take a clinical approach, with coroner's officials, propofol experts and police who interviewed Murray taking the stand.
Pastor said Friday that prosecutors told him they were ahead of schedule, although he did not indicate when the hearing may end. Prosecutors appeared to be at least halfway through presenting their case.
Defense attorneys rarely present witnesses or their own theories during preliminary hearings. In Murray's case, they did not make an opening statement and have only hinted at potential arguments as they questioned witnesses.
http://ww2.cox.com/myconnection/sandieg ... =D9KLMQF01 (http://ww2.cox.com/myconnection/sandiego/today/news/entertainment/article.cox?moduleType=apNews&articleId=D9KLMQF01)
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Numbers numbers everywhere.
You know, there were many complaints on this forum over the past year that numbers were confusing and that they didn't "mean anything" to the hoax and could we please leave those numbers out of it...
Now suddenly we are barraged with numbers numbers everywhere.
Sorta like the religious stuff.
It's his hoax and he will do numbers and religious stuff if he wants to :lol:
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... we discussed the possible idea that everyone up there is actually telling the truth.
No one has yet said it was M.J.Jackson. Only Michael Jackson... No one of credibility has stood up yet and said I saw his body it was 100% THE Michael Jackson...
They have only said they worked on someone by the name of Michael Jackson... then technically, everyone who has given evidence is telling the truth.They did work on a body, his initials were MJ and he did infact die...
The paramedic admitted on the stand that he overheard in the ambulance that it was Michael Jackson he had just tried to revive and it was only then he realised the request for a sheet to be put over his face-so while in the house..he musn't of even recognised him...
I agree. Listen to what is said on this video by LAFD spokesperson Steve Ruda - starting at 5:50.
Listen to the tone of his voice when he says this, it comes across as more like "they found their patient was, uh, Michael Jackson, later identified TO US as Michael Jackson" (sounds like they did not realize/recognize the patient as Michael Jackson until they were later told that the patient was Michael Jackson). Also at 6:40 when Ruda makes it clear that Dr. Murray "took on responsibility at the scene...Remember I told you that we have to ask the doctors.. do you take full responsibility for "this patient" - so, similar to UCLA's not making an official statement on the "death" - this almost sounds like the LAFD wants to make SURE that the public knows that "this patient" was identified to LAFD as Michael Jackson, LAFD didn't say it was Michael Jackson - and the responsibility for the patient and for Identifying the patient was put on Dr. Murray, not on the LAFD paramedics -
[youtube:7f723d18]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XuUHATRVjw&feature=related[/youtube:7f723d18]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XuUHATR ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XuUHATRVjw&feature=related)
If you recall, UCLA in this link on their website - http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/me ... 94914.aspx (http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/media-reports-that-michael-jackson-94914.aspx)
said:" UCLA Newsroom > All Stories > Featured News
Statement on the death of Michael Jackson at UCLA Medical Center
By UCLA Newsroom June 25, 2009 Category: Campus News, Health Sciences
The family of Michael Jackson made this brief statement available on June 25 at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center:
The legendary King of Pop, Michael Jackson, passed away on Thursday, June 25, 2009, at 2:26 p.m. It is believed he suffered cardiac arrest in his home. However, the cause of his death is unknown until results of the autopsy are known.
His personal physician, who was with him at the time, attempted to resuscitate Jackson, as did paramedics who transported him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center. Upon arriving at the hospital at approximately 1:14 p.m., a team of doctors, including emergency physicians and cardiologists, attempted to resuscitate him for a period of more than one hour but were unsuccessful.
Jackson’s family requests that the media respect their privacy during this tragic period of time."
To me this implies that UCLA is providing for us, the public, this statement (from the family) concerning the "death of Michael Jackson" at UCLA Medical Center. Implying that UCLA does not take responsibility for the accuracy of this statement. THE FAMILY has made this statement available. The Family's statement says "the legendary King of Pop, Michael Jackson, passed away on Thursday, June 25, 2009." It does not say he passed away at the UCLA Medical Center - it says they were unsuccessful in resuscitating him at UCLA Medical Center. EVEN STILL, if the real 100% Michael Jackson had only been transported to UCLA, was already dead and could not be revived, wouldn't UCLA have made some sort of official statement about THAT?[/u]
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(http://extrememichaeljackson.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/michaeljacksonm_j_rookt.jpg)
I don't think that is even him. His top lip looks too thin. This one looks just like the one in the ambulance though.
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I never thought that looked like MJ either but if memory serves, there's a second pic from that same situation where it's more clearly him. Don't take my word for it though.
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What happened till now?
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Haha very good Bec.
@pepper,UCLA had no part in that statement,if they had and I am pretty sure someone OFFICIAL would have told the world that Michael Jackson was no more.
They have had no part in anything official,apart from this trial and if I'm right in my previous post,then they aren't lying either.
Why is there a mass debate on smoking?
Court is on lunch break right now,they have had 2 witnesses up this morning
Stephen Marx-who has been excused-DEA Computer forensics(retired since 09)
Tim Lopez-Who's pharmacy supplised Murray
Here are some notes I managed to make quickly from Lopez's grilling for anyone who doesn't have twitter/time as im doing 50 things at once atm but trying to keep the thread trial related =]
Witness #18 Tim Lopez
Employed. a pharmacist. 15 years. Business owner of Allied Pharmacy Services.
Murray first contacted him asking about Benoquin (Vitilligo treatment)
After dealing with Dr Murray about the cream, he then was contacted by Murray again asking about Propofol.
He asked about the specific price of propofol if Lopez would be able to provide it and saline bags.
Benoquin Cream 20% is a depigmenting agent whose mechanism of action is not fully understood.
Murray made a telephone order of:
1 carton of 100ml bottles. Ten inside the carton and 2 specific formultions of propofol.
1 bottle of 100ml, & it was packaged in a package of 10 from supplier in a sealed carton. It was delivered to Murrays office in Las Vegas
There are 10 individual vials, and they are sealed.
That one order, cotains 10 vials = 100 ml volume.
20 milleter vial, and has 25 indiviuals vials in that pack.
Pros: Which is a larger size?
Lopez: The 100ml is larger.
Pros; What else did he order?
Lopez: Nine saline bags. And renewed the benoquin.
He asked to deliver to his office in Las Vegas.
Information on Benoquin -http:// [url=http://www.drugs.com/pro/benoquin.html]http://www.drugs.com/pro/benoquin.html
[/url]
On next date, ordered 2 separate orders of propofol. Ordered 4 boxes. Each box has 10 10ml doses. Packaging the same manner as before.
Order on April 28th 2009: 25 individual vials & order to be delivered to Santa Monica address.
Murray also wanted to order lorazapam. He wanted inject diazapam in injectable forms
Pros: Are any of those available in any other form?
Lopez says Lorazapam also available in oral form
Also placed an order for a tray, of lorazapam vials and two trays of diazapam.
Total of 20 diazapam
Total of 10 of lorazapam
Lopez said it was no problem. He gave an address to the courier. Said he had a clinic in the Los Angeles facility.
He said he saw patiens at the LA location that he wanted to have the medications sent there.
Murray said the meds would be under his control.
Verifies the address of Nicole's (Alverez) apartment in Santa Monica.
Dr. Murray then asked if part of the order could be delivered in Santa Monica
Murray also inquired about energy formulations. Some formulations that would give increased wakefulness.
Lopez suggested many drugs that had a side effect of alertness. Murray wanted it to be as natural as possible.
Telephone order May 12th:
Murray ordered 4 boxes of propolfol 100 mil in each box.
1 box of 20ml vial 25mi
2 trays of diazapam
Lidocane 2% cream (Lopez made for him) 60 grams.
1 tray of Flumazenil which is used to reverse benzodaiazipines.
This order was also shipped to the Santa Monica address.
May 14th 2009: Another phone conversation discuss placement order
Briefly dicussed benoquin, wanted to change vehicle of what it sits in to make it less greasy and sticky on the skin.
Worked on different formuatons to make that work.
The lidocane 2% was not strong enough, Lopez made it 4%
June 1st 2009 Lopez has another conversation with Murray
June 1st 2009 lopez has another conversation with Murray: RE energy request he had made some weeks prior
Lopez told him there were 3 main products available over the counter and he could put them into 1 capsule and Murray was happy with this
Formulation made up of caffine, asprin and ephedrine. (ECA is usually taken for weightloss because I have taken it,it supresses your appetite) (Note:SIN)
Lopez made 30 capsules to the above that formulation.
June 1st 2009 lopez has another conversation with Murray: RE energy request he had made some weeks prior
Lopez told him there were 3 main products available over the counter and he could put them into 1 capsule and Murray was happy with this
Formulation made up of caffine, asprin and ephedrine.
Lopez made 30 capsules to the above that formulation.
June 10, 2009 order included:
1 tray of lidocaine injectbal
4 boxes of propofol 10mil (40 individual vials)
2 propofol 20 mi, total of 50 bottles
20 60 gram benoquin
30 capsules of energy formulation.
To be shipped to Santa Monica.
June 15th 2009 Murray placed another order which included
1 trat lorazapam 10 litre vial injectable
Murray never disclosed the name of the patient the orders were for.
Lopez says it sounded like Dr. Murray was driving the car with the window down, was very noisy & a brief conversation.
Never spoke again after that
Lopez says the last time he spoke to Murray was the 23rd 24th June.
Def: Is it fair to say as a pharmacist, part of your job is to provide prescirption medicaiton to doctors? Lopez: Yes.
Def: There are a lot of laws and rules and regs your supposed to comply with?
Explains before filling a new perscription, you need to verify the validity and veracity of the license.
Def: No one can just call up and get some medicine sent.
Lopez: That’s correct.
Def: Like a good pharmacist you did that in the case of Dr. Murray?
Lopez:Yes.
Def: And everything checked out.
Lopez: Yes.
Def: Is it true, there are no restrictions on where these meds can be sent?
Lopez asks to repeat
Def: Do you not have the same laws and protocols as to where you send it?
Lopez: I just send it to where he directs.
Def: Other than that, you have no other due dilligence.?
- Apparently, there are no other verifications that he needs to do, prior to shipping those medicaitons. -
Pros shows Lopez receipt/invoicess which are identified as the orders Murray made
Just need to know he is a licensed physician.
How do you get Propofol from the larger 100ml bottled? Lopez says by needle
Asks about another dr Lopez was selling propofol to. Lopez says no.
Defence asks various questions about patients privacy and high profile patients, not really relevant.
An one e-mail displayed in court, a London insurance broker trying to secure a policy in case of cancellation asked Murray to provide details about the singer’s care and to respond to media allegations that Jackson suffered from lupus, cancer and other ailments on the morning of June 25th.
The doctor e-mailed back that he did not have authorization to share the information, but wrote, “As far as the statements of his health published by the press, let me say they are all fallacious to the best of my knowledge.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-pharmacist-sent-large-amounts-of-anesthetic-to-dr-conrad-murray.html
[/b]
Back asap.
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Los Angeles (CNN) -- Dr. Conrad Murray sent an e-mail to a British insurance agent assuring him that Michael Jackson was in good health just 40 minutes before the doctor realized the pop star had stopped breathing, according to testimony Monday.
The e-mail, found on Murray's iPhone, was introduced Monday at a preliminary hearing to decide if the involuntary manslaughter case against Murray will go to trial.
Murray ordered more than 15 liters of propofol -- a surgical anesthetic -- and 80 vials of injectable sedatives from a Las Vegas pharmacy in the three months before Jackson's death, a pharmacist testified.
The drugs were shipped to the Santa Monica, California, apartment where Murray stayed with a girlfriend while he worked as Jackson's personal physician, according to pharmacist Tim Lopez and earlier witnesses.
A Los Angeles coroner's investigator testified Friday about finding empty and unused drug vials near Jackson's bed and in a closet after Jackson's death.
The coroner concluded that "acute propofol intoxication" in combination with sedatives killed Jackson on June 25, 2009.
Murray injected Jackson with a series of sedatives and finally with propofol that morning, according to Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney David Walgren. While Jackson slept, Murray made and received several phone calls and replied to e-mails.
"As far as the statement of his health published by the press, let me say they're all malicious to the best of my knowledge," Murray wrote in an e-mail sent from his iPhone at 11:17 a.m. to an insurance agent.
The agent, who was considering "cancellation insurance" for Jackson's upcoming London concerts, sent Murray an e-mail earlier in the morning raising concerns about media reports about Jackson's health.
After sending the e-mail, Murray apparently began a series of cell phone calls, including the last conversation with Houston cocktail waitress Sade Anding. She testified Friday that she was on the phone with Murray when he suddenly stopped responding.
That moment, at about 11:57 a.m., is when prosecutors contend Dr. Murray first realized that Michael Jackson has stopped breathing.
"I didn't hear him on the phone anymore," Anding said. "I heard commotion as if the phone was in a pocket and I heard coughing and I heard a mumbling of voices."
Several of Jackson's family members were in court for Monday's testimony, including sisters Janet, La Toya and Rebe. His mother, Katherine, and brothers Jackie and Randy Jackson also were in court.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/10 ... y.hearing/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/10/california.conrad.murray.hearing/)
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One call on Murray’s phone, was either to or from the insurance company 40 minutes before Michael “died” with Murray reporting that MJ was fine. :shock:
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Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave! So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.
This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.
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Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave! So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.
This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.
Remember, this is just the prosecution side. We havent heard from the defence yet.
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Murray denied release of MJs medical records to the insurance company. :?
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Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave! So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.
This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.
Remember, this is just the prosecution side. We havent heard from the defence yet.
Am I right in thinking we won't get to hear from the defence in this prelim hearing? Is that all kept for the trial?
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Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave! So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.
This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.
Remember, this is just the prosecution side. We havent heard from the defence yet.
The cocktail waitress testified Murray abruptly ended his conversation with her, but he didn't hand up the phone. Instead, she says, "I heard commotion as if the phone was in a pocket and I heard coughing and I heard a mumbling of voices."
Ok. Let me state this aloud so as to get it straight in my head.
Murray's on the phone with her. He suddenly realizes something's wrong, and absentmindedly sticks the phone in his pocket as he tends to his patient. She then only hears a 'commotion' (panic? yelling?etc.) and mumbling voices.
The doctor taking care of one of the most famous persons in history only makes a "commotion" and those who (assuming) join him only mumble??
If I put my iPhone in my pocket, or even lay it nearby, any person whom I've called will hear plainly what's going on around me.
Hushed tones at the scene of 'death'?
Could this indicate more than one guilty person (I'd be very vocal about getting some help if I was on the scene), or perhaps someone was giving some last minute instructions???
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Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave! So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.
This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.
Remember, this is just the prosecution side. We havent heard from the defence yet.
Am I right in thinking we won't get to hear from the defence in this prelim hearing? Is that all kept for the trial?
Yes. You are correct. This is the hearing at which the prosecution lays out its evidence to the judge, and he'll decide if the prosecution has enough evidence to warrant a trial by jury.
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
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Reminded me of this:
Reported Jackson Autopsy -- A Fake
Originally posted Jun 29th 2009 8:14 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
Image
We've learned the story making the rounds detailing the terrible condition of Michael Jackson's body is a fake.
A report in The Sun gave harrowing details of the body, but we've learned the "autopsy report" was fabricated and completely false.
UPDATE: The Los Angeles County coroner just released the following statement:
"The report that is being published did not come from this office. I don't know where the information came from, or who that information came from. It is not accurate. Some of it is totally false."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-a (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-a) ... rt-a-fake/
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curls that link is a dead end. It says 404 not found. :(
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curls that link is a dead end. It says 404 not found. :(
Try this: http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-a ... rt-a-fake/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-autopsy-report-a-fake/)
I knew I remembered that the coroner had said the report didn't come from his office so I hunted around here and found the TMZ article here in the TMZ Full Recap section for June 2009 - Part 2
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It says "some of it" is totally false. I wish I knew what parts are true and which are false.
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
Excuse me 1 moment...................
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wish they'd give up and call it quits,I am getting a pain from excessive laughing.
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
Excuse me 1 moment...................
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wish they'd give up and call it quits,I am getting a pain from excessive laughing.
+1 :lol:
This is getting more entertaining by the day. Mike fenks fo' da laffs man!! :lol: :lol:
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How can the coroner NOT know where the autopsy report came from? This is ridiculous.
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
I'd really like to know more about this! 8-)
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
Where did you hear this?
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I am listening to the ustream of Mel now and she and her arrogant friend who is sitting with her in her house is saying that the fans did everything for MICHAEL!!! That´s not true, I mean the fans love him but the fans are not the reason why the autopy programm was not broadcasted last week.
GOD, her friend called Linda is soooooo arrogant, she thinks she knows everything about MJ´s "death" and how stupid she is to not realize that there can´t be so many contradictions in the case of MJ!
She is mad cause the Jackson family ain´t doing anything in the court!!! Maybe because it´s a hoax and they are all acting?
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I stand by my theory from my post earlier on today,I call BS and to add to both of these,
if this continues on I will be calling 911 myself for revival from laughing at this under investigated,non tested,faked autopsy'd,hysterical excuse for a manslaughter prelim.
If I am missing for a few hours this week on numerous occasions it's because im trying to resuss myself on the bed and IV myself with pepsimax.I apologise in advance.
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Michael Jackson Drug Probers Raid Las Vegas Pharmacy
According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the warrant was issued "for items of interest in a criminal investigation" because evidence already obtained allegedly suggests that Murray obtained both regulated and unregulated drugs from Applied Pharmacy Services, 6370 West Flamingo #1, Las Vegas.[/b]
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959&page=1
Applied Pharmacy Services is not your local corner drug store. It is a Compounding Pharmacy.
Compounding pharmacy
Compounding is the practice of preparing drugs in new forms. For example, if a drug manufacturer only provides a drug as a tablet, a compounding pharmacist might make a medicated lollipop that contains the drug. Patients who have difficulty swallowing the tablet may prefer to suck the medicated lollipop instead.
Another form of compounding is by mixing different strengths,(g,mg,mcg)of capsules or tablets to yield the desire therapy indicated by the doctor. This form of compounding is found at community or hospital pharmacies or in-home administration therapy.
Compounding pharmacies specialize in compounding, although many also dispense the same non-compounded drugs that patients can obtain from community pharmacies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacies#Compounding_pharmacy
This is suggesting that this type of pharmacy only deals with medical professionals and not the general public.
I am finding 3 different locations for this company in Las Vegas. The 3 locations have the same phone number.
Applied Pharmacy Svc
(702) 304-0770
2851 N Tenaya Way Ste 202
Las Vegas, NV 89128
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Applied.Pharmacy.Services.702-304-0770
http://cbk0.google.com/cbk?output=thumb ... =298&h=118 (http://cbk0.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=60&ll=36.212919,-115.249913&cbll=36.212999,-115.249669&thumbpegman=1&w=298&h=118)
Applied Pharmacy Service
5785 S Fort Apache Road # 100
Las Vegas, NV 89148-5629
Phone:(702) 304-0770
http://www.manta.com/c/mm79s7v/applied-pharmacy-service
APPLIED PHARMACY SERVICES, LLC
Compounding Pharmacy
Las Vegas, Nevada
Provider NPI: 1316021694
Organization Information:
Organization Name: APPLIED PHARMACY SERVICES, LLC
Organization is not Subpart
Authorized Official: TIMOTHY A LOPEZ PRESIDENT & CEO 702-3040770
Practice Location:
6370 W FLAMINGO RD SUITE 1 LAS VEGAS, NV 89103 US
Tel: 702-304-0770 Fax: 702-304-0778
Business Mailing Address:
6370 W FLAMINGO RD SUITE 1 LAS VEGAS, NV 89103 US
Tel: 702-304-0770 Fax: 702-304-0778
http://www.equipyellow.com/n/compounding-pharmacy/applied-pharmacy-services-llc-6370-w-flamingo-rd-suite-1-las-vegas-702-304-0770/NV-1316021694
I took a look at google maps and I don't see that writing on the window that we see from the police raid photographs nor is there a sign for the pharmacy visible.
Raid Photos
(http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ap_pharmacy_raid_2_090811_mn.jpg)
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/news/090824/applied-pharmacy-320.jpg)
Google Maps Street View
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/264/flamingord1.jpg)
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2848/flamingord.jpg)
The pharmacy`s address is supposedly 6370. The following picture is of the building located at 6380 so considered next door and it figures prominently when looking at the street view through google maps.
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9629/stopsmoking.jpg)
The company`s name is MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE Medical Centre and by coincidence they are advertising help to STOP SMOKING. As I said in the AR 2 of the major lung ailments are attributed to smoking. Very strange indeed! :shock:
The sign also says `Stop Smoking Today in 20 Minutes`. Wasn`t there reports, this last week, from the hearing, that Murray left Michael for 20 minutes :?:
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And one more:
PRISON MEDICAL DEAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON
Sunday January 9.2011
By Mike Parker in Los AngelesBy Mike Parker in Los Angeles MICHAEL JACKSON'S personal physician Deal Could Be Offered to help him escape That Would up to four years in jail, a prosecutor Leading believer.Michael Jackson's personal physician could offer a deal that would help him escape from prison four years, the chief prosecutor of the believer.
Attorney Truc Do said Dr. Conrad Murray is being "pushed to the" admission of guilt by the singer's death.
The heart specialist, Who is on £ 48,000 bail, is halfway through to pre-trial hearing on a charge of involuntary manslaughter, to Which I have pleaded not guilty.
Dr Murray, 57, admits the hospital I Supplied anesthetic propofol to Jackson But the singer insists Gave Himself the overdose That Kill him.
Ms Do, Who secured a murder conviction Against record producer Phil Spector in 2009, yesterday CLAIMED That the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office chose a two-week hearing Rather Than A two-day version to prompt Dr Murray Into Accepting a deal.
She said: "They Are Hoping display of an Overwhelming Evidence Into Might push him considering a plea deal. Hearing in advance all the Evidence Can Be a reality check. "Play all the evidence "in advance can be a reality."
Said Ms Dr Murray Could Do feel "so overwhelmed" by the end of the second week That He accepts a plea deal Rather Than face a jury trial. If Convicted by a jury, Dr Murray Could face up to four years behind bars, the maximum under California law for involuntary manslaughter. If the Cardiologist accepts a plea deal, pero I Could Completely escape jail with a suspended sentence.
Already Have Challenged Witnesses Dr Murray's version of events on the day Jackson, 50, Died in to rent the mansion in 2009.
Richard Senneff, the first paramedic to see the star's body, Said He Believes the Cardiologist WAS lying about Jackson Had What drugs taken, Adding: "What Did He Said just add up.
Strange treatment
Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/221 ... z1AexQUmn7 (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/221964/Jail-deal-for-Michael-Jackson-doctorJail-deal-for-Michael-Jackson-doctor#ixzz1AexQUmn7)
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People vs. Dr. Conrad Murray – Week 2
Murray’s Defense Hint at New Strategy – Michael Drank Himself to Death
Murray’s defence have just hinted at another one of their insane theories — suggesting in court today that Michael may have drank himself to death by consuming a juice box laced with Propofol.
(http://home.mjnewsalerts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/drdeath.png)
Murray’s attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, was questioning Jamie Lintemoot, a Senior Criminalist from the L.A. County Coroner’s Office about the 70 grams of fluid found in Michael’s stomach at the time of the autopsy … fluid that tested positive for traces of Propofol.
Flanagan noted the presence of a juice box on Michael’s nightstand … and asked if it had been tested for Propofol … raising the possibility that Michael was sippin’ on the anesthetic shortly before he died.
The criminalist testified he had not tested the juice box.
So what’s Flanagan’s point? He might be suggesting that Michael was secretly self-administering his Propofol … which would support Murray’s defense theory that Michael accidentally caused his own overdose.
http://home.mjnewsalerts.com/2011/01/04/people-vs-murray/
So now he drank the propofol too.
Funny, because I asked that same question, in the videos about the autopsy report, that I made when the AR was first released. It seemed to me, at the time, that maybe propofol was poured into all the tissue/blood samples at the coroner's because propofol and lidocaine where in everything. It just didn't seem possible for these drugs to be present in all the samples, especially the stomach contents, if propofol and lidocaine where being administered through an IV.
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# The interview between Martinez and Murray lasted approximately half an hour. less than a minute ago via web
When Martinez asked Murray why he did not call 911, Murray said he was 'caring for his patient, and he did not want to neglect him.' 2 minutes ago via
When Martinez asked Murray why he did not move MJ to the floor, Murray said he, 'could not move Mr. Jackson to the floor by himself.' 3 minutes ago via web
Murray told Martinez that when he got to the room, shortly after 11 a.m., he started doing CPR on Jackson. 8 minutes ago via web Retweeted by you and 3 others
Martinez testifies Murray told him, during questioning, he was gone for about 2 min & when he returned to the room, MJ was not breathing. 10 minutes ago via web Retweeted by you and 4 others
Martinez: After monitoring Jackson, Murray says he left to go relieve himself in the restroom. 12 minutes ago via web
Martinez: Murray says MJ fell asleep around 11:00 am. Murray monitored him for a while until he felt comfortable with MJ’s condition. 13 minutes ago via web
Martinez: Dr. Murray said he gave him half his normal dose, 25 milligrams over the course of 25 minutes . 16 minutes ago via web
Martinez: Around 10:40 or 10:50, Murray administered Propofol to MJ. 17 minutes ago via web
Martinez: At 10:00 am #MJ was still awake, still complaining to him that he needs to sleep. MJ simply asked for ‘milk,’ meaning Propofol. 19 minutes ago via web
Martinez testifies that according to Murray, none of the doses put Jackson to sleep for a prolonged period of time. 23 minutes ago via web
Over the next few hours, Murray injected Jackson with alternating doeses of midazolam and lorazepam, to help Jackson sleep. 24 minutes ago via web
Martinez says that Murray told him he began prescribing Jackson with medication at around 2 a.m. on June 25th to help MJ sleep. 30 minutes ago via web
Martinez: Murray said he lowered the amount of propofol that he usually gave MJ, and he introduced midazolam & lorazepam, to help MJ sleep. 37 minutes ago via web
Murray felt #MJ developed a dependency on Propofol, so with MJ's permission he decided to wean him off Propofol and use some other agents. 39 minutes ago via web
Martinez says Dr. Murray expressed a concern about Jackson developing a dependency on Propofol. 42 minutes ago via web
Martinez testifies that Murray told him that 50 milligrams was the most he would give Jackson. about 1 hour ago via web
Murray said he would inject Jackson with 50 milligrams of Propofol...and then a drip infusion to keep him under . about 1 hour ago via web
During their meeting Murray told Martinez that for a little over 2 months he had treated Jackson and assisted him with sleeping nightly. about 1 hour ago via web
Martinez and Murray's attorney, Michael Pena, made arraignments for Murray to meet Martinez on 6/27 at a hotel in Marina Del Rey. about 1 hour ago via web
Martinez testifies that he began trying to contact Murray on 6/25, but was unable to. Martinez was contacted by Murray's attorney on 6/26. about 1 hour ago via web
Martinez was one of the lead investigators of this case. about 1 hour ago via web
http://twitter.com/InSession (http://twitter.com/InSession)
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I was waiting for this to come up because after having Fleak on the stand last week,she admitted she saw 2Naked juice bottles on the bedside table but did not take them as evidence,did not test them or check to see what was left inside them(the containers are see through btw) they were left there and I assume gone within the 4days the house was left open by the LAPD.
There is nothing to test.AGAIN....how convinient.lol
Today also,it was revealed that the tubes from the IV were clear.
I will get a full summary up from today asap.
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Just an update for those getting down over the behaviour from the non's.
Tonight,my points from earlier today have been proven.
They are getting each others facebooks/forums and twitter accounts shut down and deleted and are thinking up ways on how to get each other back.It is something to be marvelled at,seriously.They are sooooooooooo into Michael's ways and all about love....
What the fuck ever.
Instead of working through the evidence and the trials and tribulations of this whole thing,and working as a team/family/force of nature,holding ranks and remaining to stand as an army would do,they are fighting a war amongst themselves,have lost sight of WHO this is actually about,have exchanged love for hate+delete buttons and I find it all very amusing.
Not as amusing as a coroner not knowing where the report came from,but not far off...both have made me lol.
#Sinderellasmotivationalspeechtimes
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Michael Jackson Drug Probers Raid Las Vegas Pharmacy
According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the warrant was issued "for items of interest in a criminal investigation" because evidence already obtained allegedly suggests that Murray obtained both regulated and unregulated drugs from Applied Pharmacy Services, 6370 West Flamingo #1, Las Vegas.[/b]
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959&page=1
Applied Pharmacy Services is not your local corner drug store. It is a Compounding Pharmacy.
Compounding pharmacy
Compounding is the practice of preparing drugs in new forms. For example, if a drug manufacturer only provides a drug as a tablet, a compounding pharmacist might make a medicated lollipop that contains the drug. Patients who have difficulty swallowing the tablet may prefer to suck the medicated lollipop instead.
Another form of compounding is by mixing different strengths,(g,mg,mcg)of capsules or tablets to yield the desire therapy indicated by the doctor. This form of compounding is found at community or hospital pharmacies or in-home administration therapy.
Compounding pharmacies specialize in compounding, although many also dispense the same non-compounded drugs that patients can obtain from community pharmacies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacies#Compounding_pharmacy
This is suggesting that this type of pharmacy only deals with medical professionals and not the general public.
I am finding 3 different locations for this company in Las Vegas. The 3 locations have the same phone number.
Applied Pharmacy Svc
(702) 304-0770
2851 N Tenaya Way Ste 202
Las Vegas, NV 89128
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Applied.Pharmacy.Services.702-304-0770
http://cbk0.google.com/cbk?output=thumb ... =298&h=118 (http://cbk0.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=60&ll=36.212919,-115.249913&cbll=36.212999,-115.249669&thumbpegman=1&w=298&h=118)
Applied Pharmacy Service
5785 S Fort Apache Road # 100
Las Vegas, NV 89148-5629
Phone:(702) 304-0770
http://www.manta.com/c/mm79s7v/applied-pharmacy-service
APPLIED PHARMACY SERVICES, LLC
Compounding Pharmacy
Las Vegas, Nevada
Provider NPI: 1316021694
Organization Information:
Organization Name: APPLIED PHARMACY SERVICES, LLC
Organization is not Subpart
Authorized Official: TIMOTHY A LOPEZ PRESIDENT & CEO 702-3040770
Practice Location:
6370 W FLAMINGO RD SUITE 1 LAS VEGAS, NV 89103 US
Tel: 702-304-0770 Fax: 702-304-0778
Business Mailing Address:
6370 W FLAMINGO RD SUITE 1 LAS VEGAS, NV 89103 US
Tel: 702-304-0770 Fax: 702-304-0778
http://www.equipyellow.com/n/compounding-pharmacy/applied-pharmacy-services-llc-6370-w-flamingo-rd-suite-1-las-vegas-702-304-0770/NV-1316021694
I took a look at google maps and I don't see that writing on the window that we see from the police raid photographs nor is there a sign for the pharmacy visible.
Raid Photos
(http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ap_pharmacy_raid_2_090811_mn.jpg)
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/news/090824/applied-pharmacy-320.jpg)
Google Maps Street View
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/264/flamingord1.jpg)
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2848/flamingord.jpg)
The pharmacy`s address is supposedly 6370. The following picture is of the building located at 6380 so considered next door and it figures prominently when looking at the street view through google maps.
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9629/stopsmoking.jpg)
The company`s name is MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE Medical Centre and by coincidence they are advertising help to STOP SMOKING. As I said in the AR 2 of the major lung ailments are attributed to smoking. Very strange indeed! :shock:
The sign also says `Stop Smoking Today in 20 Minutes`. Wasn`t there reports, this last week, from the hearing, that Murray left Michael for 20 minutes :?:
The pictures of the raid photo's look very fake..Like the lettering just looks like it has been stuck on in a hurry and not very professionally done..Thank you for reposting these..I haven't seen them in a long time and I am now reminded of how fake it really does look.
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Maximum Performance sounds more like a condom or work out place than a medical center or anything serious to do with the medical industry.
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: CIRCUS DE LOS ANGELES :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Maximum Performance sounds more like a condom or work out place than a medical center or anything serious to do with the medical industry.
I wasn't referring to it as an actual medical facility.
But what about if we just switch a couple words around. Maximum Performance Medical becomes...
Maximum Medical Performance
Maximum
the greatest possible degree
Performance
the act of presenting a play or a piece of music or other entertainment
the act of performing; of doing something successfully
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Butterfly Pin on Katherine's lapel.
Credit esprit467
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/Butterfly.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/Butterfly2.jpg)
That butterlfly about made my day today. Funny how something so simple yet significant can lift the spirit when things get tough.
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I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from. Not official. I’ll get some more info on this.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: CIRCUS DE LOS ANGELES :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which autopsy report was he referring to? The first one, or the second?
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we all know that the autopsy report that was published has major mistakes, not new news, the totally fake parts, is the parts describing his health conditions, all the respiratory diseases and the problems, and the brain stuff,,,,etc are totally made up.
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Conversation I had today...
Get into the car-Hold my hand comes on immidiatley
Friend"woo..bit of MJ...*turns it down* and gets serious,they think he is alive,I know you were trying to tell me and I know you know but but I read it and I thought,what if he is"
Me"I know, he is,I told you months ago....*
Friend"what's happened so far in the trial*
*explain day by day summary-inc the best part from the coroner and so on*
Friend"OH MY GOD HAHAHAHA..seriously?no fucking way,it's just a big fucking joke isn't it,he's alive isn't he...I should have listened to you*tells me what she read in the news and what she recalls from the funeral about the kids*so...Michael Jackson is alive..this is great!*
Turns song back up
Turns song down...."so........tell me everything again.....this is amazing,where is he?"
This is what I have done with a portion of my day today,gone over 18months of info
Believers-1 Non Believers-0
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEE
Now i'm home I can sort day 5 out before day 6 piles up on my email.
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Keep up the good work Sinder. You're fighting the good fight.
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I interpret Ortega's testimony that yes MJ was not up to par one day but then rebounded. Interestingly, those two days, 6/23 and 6/24, were the days Murray said he did NOT use propofol, just the benzos!
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This case is a mess!
[youtube:28739voz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvf3NMx_Jd4[/youtube:28739voz]
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LOVE YOUR POST SINDERELLA.........................XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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I am going to take a moment here to say...
I would like to thank everyone involved for keeping me entertained,it's better than a TV soap oprah,CSI,Criminal Minds,NCIS..you name it...eat your heart out,Murray's
man's laughter trial is bringing it 2011 style.
In the words of Kanye West
''Yo J4MJ,I'm real happy you almost got justice and everything,but Conrad Murray has one of the funniest trials of all time."
The court room is basically the Forum gone live and in living colour.
LOVE YOUR POST SINDERELLA.........................XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nawww,fanks <3
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
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I interpret Ortega's testimony that yes MJ was not up to par one day but then rebounded. Interestingly, those two days, 6/23 and 6/24, were the days Murray said he did NOT use propofol, just the benzos!
Also, remember Arnie Klein is quoted as stating Michael was in his office on or about the 21st of June, and he was feeling 'fine'.
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
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these legal people are in great danger of....DISSAPEARING UP THEIR OWN ARSE.................
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Have we found out yet if MJ had to take shoes off in 2003 for arrest info??
edit: just emailed sheriff county barbara and asked about shoes on or of for booking/arrest info
will let you know if they bother to get back to me
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
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bwaaaahahahah!!! Loyalfan....disappearing up their own arse :lol:
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
just emailed sheriff dep regarding shoes on or off , hope they'll get back to me
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
I honestly do not believe ANY sort of investigation/research into anything that you and I would call standard procedure for a high profile or even just a 'normal' manslaughter trial has occured since June 25th 2009.
and exactly,quick reference search and there we have it...infact they would only have to look on here and they'd gain a wealth of free knowledge.
@IJCSLY
I think you will find,sadly and disgustingly,they measured him the day they made him strip down in his house and measured....everything.So I am going to say without shoes.
Let us know anyway if they hit you back though.
2inches difference is a lot (no rude jokes haha)
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
Have you ever been measured and weighed when you've received your driver's license?
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
Have you ever been measured and weighed when you've received your driver's license?
I actually have never had a DL in my life. I do know that when I have gotten my photo done for other Government Identification (at the motor vehicle branch) there is height chart on the wall nearby and no they didn't weigh me, just asked.
Why would Michael lie about his height and/or weight in 1984, when the license would have been issued? It is more probable that the information on the internet about the booking/mug shot is incorrect and most likely due to not removing one's shoes.
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I was never measured for my DL, and here in Holland I am quite sure you need to take your shoes off if you're booked and for getting a new passport.
If it's because you didn't pay a speed ticket or something non-important like that, I think they would make the mistake by measuring you with shoes. In MJ's case back in 2003 I think it is a different case. Sneddon was after him for 10 years, I am sure he was very cautious that no mistake would be made. So my bet is shoes were off, and MJ is 5'11".
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Paul McCartney is said to be 5'11. Seems pretty same height.
(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/moonter/6a00d83451b35169e2010536a8699d970b-.jpg)
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Since I have never been arrested nor am I police officer, I am relying on the internet.
Do they make you take your shoes off during a mugshot?
Typically do they, since there is a height chart you stand in front of?
I was just in jail last night and earlier on that evening (before I was taken into the actual jail) I was at a police station holding cell. I had to take my shoe laces off (as well as let them search my shoes and socks) and my laces were not given back until I got out. But they let me keep my shoes and socks on during the picture taking part of check-in. I was also not standing in front of a height chart (like in the movies), just a gray background. It's no fun trying to walk around in shoes that have no laces. They are practically falling off of you while all the officers are telling you to: hurry up, walk faster, stay in a straight line, etc.
I had to take my shoes off when the did my mugshot
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100307052919AA0wP6q
Having worked as a booking officer for a police department I can tell you exactly what to expect. Depending on the size of the department and their individual procedures this is what will happen. You will enter the secure section of a jail facility usually with an escort from an officer. From this point you will be asked if you have anything on your person. You will be searched and patted down before anything else goes on. The facility is secure for a reason. Don’t take it personally, it is just the way it is. They may not do a strip search depending on department policy. Usually a strip search is done if they find a weapon or drugs on your person but it varies per department. They MAY take your shoes OR shoe laces. They may also take your belt. This is so you don’t hurt yourself or other with them. They then may have you sit in an open seating area with other people who have been arrested. There will most like be a TV, collect call phones, a bathroom. Stay awake and listen for your name. They will call you up to the various stations to get finger prints, photograph, and answer some basic questions about yourself. These are for classification purposes. They help to identify people who made need extra care while in the facility (nurse attention, suicide watch, etc). Then you will be taken to a change out room with a group of males. You will change into jail uniform and be taken to a cell. There you will await transfer or the next step in your individual case.
http://home-aid-blog.info/qa/what-happens-when-you-report-to-a-police-station-to-get-booked/.html
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
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ATTENTION EVERYONE:ITS OVER.[/b]
After only 6days of testimonies and less than 25 people taking the stand,it's over.LOL.
Judge Michael Pastor has taken a recess.
The Deputy Attorney General who represents the Medical Board of California has been in the courtroom and has asked the judge to suspend Murray's license to practice medicine.
Murray's team have asked for it to be dismissed-which is routine.
That was short lived...
I am pretty sure there is more evidence that 6days worth,5.5 if you count an early finish on Friday.Most of what was found post June wasn't tested,the juice wasn't,the IV bag wasn't,they don't even know his actual height.
Give me strength and popcorn and tea hell give me wine as well,I'm on pain meds but I think i've become immune to them so someone hook me up :mrgreen:
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
these docs seem to be driver license and application form, so probably filled in not be the authorities, but probably MJ himself, so the question is how old MJ was when he filed an application. It is assumed for man to change height even until the age of 21. Maybe this is the reason why it says only 5'9.
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
these docs seem to be driver license and application form, so probably filled in not be the authorities, but probably MJ himself, so the question is how old MJ was when he filed an application. It is assumed for man to change height even until the age of 21. Maybe this is the reason why it says only 5'9.
This document was filled in, by hand, by Michael in 1984. He writes that he is 5' 9", 120lbs, his birthday is 8/29/58 and his middle name is "Joe". He would have been 25 or 26, depending on when he was getting or renewing the DL.
Seem unlikely that he would have been lying about these things 25 years ago (2009).
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It's going to full trial.Official.
The Judge ruled there is sufficient evidence to warrant that C.Murray stand trial for the manslaughter of Michael Jackson.
What happened to this 'deal' of admitting it and getting a suspended sentence....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??
That go 'poof' as well as all the other evidence.
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It's going to full trial.Official.
The Judge ruled there is sufficient evidence to warrant that C.Murray stand trial for the manslaughter of Michael Jackson.
What happened to this 'deal' of admitting it and getting a suspended sentence....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??
That go 'poof' as well as all the other evidence.
I had a feeling that it would go to a full trial..Do you know when though??
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There will be another hearing where he will be given a date so his team can prepare for it,so I'd say in the next few weeks,but the trial itself won't be for a while.
The statement 'there is sufficient evidence' is BS in itself.
What evidence?from my understanding of this whole mess-and I have read a lot this past week...there is barely anything left/been tested.Unless someone has a secret stash somewhere,I fail to see what the Judge has based this opinion/ruling off of
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
these docs seem to be driver license and application form, so probably filled in not be the authorities, but probably MJ himself, so the question is how old MJ was when he filed an application. It is assumed for man to change height even until the age of 21. Maybe this is the reason why it says only 5'9.
This document was filled in, by hand, by Michael in 1984. He writes that he is 5' 9", 120lbs, his birthday is 8/29/58 and his middle name is "Joe". He would have been 25 or 26, depending on when he was getting or renewing the DL.
Seem unlikely that he would have been lying about these things 25 years ago (2009).
That's Michael's signature, but not his handwriting.
Chris Tucker is appx. 6' 1" (he is officially 6' 3/4"). Michael is only about 2 inches shorter than him.
I'm sorry, but Michael is not 5'9".
And yes, you generally are required to remove your shoes when being booked for a felony crime.
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Where did this information come from? I have not seen the actual size of the casket mentioned before.
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There will be another hearing where he will be given a date so his team can prepare for it,so I'd say in the next few weeks,but the trial itself won't be for a while.
The statement 'there is sufficient evidence' is BS in itself.
What evidence?from my understanding of this whole mess-and I have read a lot this past week...there is barely anything left/been tested.Unless someone has a secret stash somewhere,I fail to see what the Judge has based this opinion/ruling off of
High 5! Now it is really getting interesting. I never thought it would come to trial, but it's necessary. So buckle up!
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
just emailed sheriff dep regarding shoes on or off , hope they'll get back to me
Last year I asked several cops about booking procedures and if suspects are actually weight and measured, with or without shoes, etc. i was told that they do not remove shoes and that the information is usually taken from the drivers license.
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DDA David Walgren told the judge, "It was not Michael Jackson's time to go...Michael Jackson is not here today because of the negligence and reckless acts of Dr. Murray."
Walgren said Murray cared more about covering up evidence than helping MJ.
http://twitter.com/#!/1direction4MJ
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
these docs seem to be driver license and application form, so probably filled in not be the authorities, but probably MJ himself, so the question is how old MJ was when he filed an application. It is assumed for man to change height even until the age of 21. Maybe this is the reason why it says only 5'9.
This document was filled in, by hand, by Michael in 1984. He writes that he is 5' 9", 120lbs, his birthday is 8/29/58 and his middle name is "Joe". He would have been 25 or 26, depending on when he was getting or renewing the DL.
Seem unlikely that he would have been lying about these things 25 years ago (2009).
That's Michael's signature, but not his handwriting.
Chris Tucker is appx. 6' 1" (he is officially 6' 3/4"). Michael is only about 2 inches shorter than him.
I'm sorry, but Michael is not 5'9".
And yes, you generally are required to remove your shoes when being booked for a felony crime.
Ok whatever,that is your opinion and this information is coming directly from the FBI files on Michael Jackson. Michael would have filled in his DL application, which is what that is and yes, he signed it.
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@ Sinderella. I think the mere fact that Murray was administering propofol outside of a hospital setting AND without proper monitoring equipment is more then enough evidence then and there to proceed to a full trial..Not to forget too that he was supposedly on the phone to various people during the time he should have been taking care of Michael. He also neglected to tell paramedics that he had given Michael the propofol.
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There will be another hearing where he will be given a date so his team can prepare for it,so I'd say in the next few weeks,but the trial itself won't be for a while.
The statement 'there is sufficient evidence' is BS in itself.
What evidence?from my understanding of this whole mess-and I have read a lot this past week...there is barely anything left/been tested.Unless someone has a secret stash somewhere,I fail to see what the Judge has based this opinion/ruling off of
There is plenty of sufficient evidence that Murray was negligent, in more ways than one. Even if he is found guilty in the end he gets of easy. Up to four years for involuntary manslaughter. The family seems convinced that there is nothing involuntary about it. We will never know unless it goes to trial.
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During closing arguments at the hearing, Murray's defense attorney, Joseph Low IV, argued the case should be dismissed because prosecutors didn't adequately prove how Murray caused Jackson's death. He also said Jackson's health may have been a contributing cause.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/8343ee
"In contrast to Mr. Low's comment, let me just say, it was not Michael Jackson's time to go," Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said. "Because of Dr. Murray's actions, Michael's children are left without a father."
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/8343qo
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RobertNisbet
The judge had the discretion to raise or lower the charges against the suspect - he did not. Murray faces up to 4 years in jail
http://twitter.com/#!/RobertNisbet
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Murray´s liscence has been suspended in the state of California (TMZ)
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
I agree. I think he is only 5'9. A lot of Michael's shoes have thick heels, and his hair sticks up a tiny bit, so I think that is where the other 2 inches came from.
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Dr. Conrad Murray's Medical License SUSPENDED
5 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
Dr. Conrad Murray's medical license has just been suspended.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/01/11/0111-conrad-murray-bn.jpg)
Judge Michael Pastor just ordered the suspension, as a condition to Dr. Murray's bail in the Michael Jackson manslaughter case.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/dr-conrad-murray-medical-license-suspended-michael-jackson-manslaughter-trial-medical-board/
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Conversation I had today...
Get into the car-Hold my hand comes on immidiatley
Friend"woo..bit of MJ...*turns it down* and gets serious,they think he is alive,I know you were trying to tell me and I know you know but but I read it and I thought,what if he is"
Me"I know, he is,I told you months ago....*
Friend"what's happened so far in the trial*
*explain day by day summary-inc the best part from the coroner and so on*
Friend"OH MY GOD HAHAHAHA..seriously?no fucking way,it's just a big fucking joke isn't it,he's alive isn't he...I should have listened to you*tells me what she read in the news and what she recalls from the funeral about the kids*so...Michael Jackson is alive..this is great!*
Turns song back up
Turns song down...."so........tell me everything again.....this is amazing,where is he?"
This is what I have done with a portion of my day today,gone over 18months of info
Believers-1 Non Believers-0
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEE
Now i'm home I can sort day 5 out before day 6 piles up on my email.
Great story! We're slowly converting the "nons", one person at a time. Good job!
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Arraignment will be set two weeks from today.January 25th, at 830 am.
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Unless (between 2003 & 2009) Michael developed a severe case of rapid onset osteoporosis, two inches is a huge amount of height for a man at his age to lose. There was absolutely no evidence of him 'shrinking' in any of the photos taken post trial era.
The coroner's reports are laughable, at best.
BTW, kudos to you for pointing out the very public and easily obtained contradictory "official" information!
There is more evidence that Michael is 5' 9" than 5' 11". The only thing that shows his height as 5' 11" is the booking in 2005 and people are not always required to remove their shoes when being booked and a mug shot is taken. This record of height could therefore easily be incorrect.
I previously posted a copy of Michael's DL, that expired in 1989, from the FBI files which were recently released and Michael's height is listed as 5' 9". The DL number in the AR is the same number as the 1989 DL number, this number remains the same even when you get your license renewed.
Have you ever been measured and weighed when you've received your driver's license?
I actually have never had a DL in my life. I do know that when I have gotten my photo done for other Government Identification (at the motor vehicle branch) there is height chart on the wall nearby and no they didn't weigh me, just asked.
Why would Michael lie about his height and/or weight in 1984, when the license would have been issued? It is more probable that the information on the internet about the booking/mug shot is incorrect and most likely due to not removing one's shoes.
I've lived in 4 different states in the US (not CA though), and I have never been weighed or measured to get my license. The people just ask you for that info.
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There is still a possibility that a deal will be made. I wouldn't have expected a deal to even be mentioned until the Judge decided if there was enough evidence to go to trial. So maybe now Murray will be offered a deal to admit to a guilty plea with the suspended sentence. If he admits guilt, then the prosecution still "wins". Sadly, sometimes prosecutors are more concerned with maintaining a "winning" record so they offer plea deals to end the case and still win. The ones who lose end up being the victim's loved ones.
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Indeed!She keeps txting me questions.Converting everyone=massive phone bills haha.
I will get you the casket info.Can't recall where it is atm.
In my opinion,there is not enough evidence.From what I heard,saw,read and based on my own opinion which I am entitled to.My opinion is that it's BS.
EVERY story on that stand lacked credibility,everyone on there made no sense,had a different version of events,hadn't done their job in some way or another.
The paramedic didn't even know who he was trying to save until he overheard his name in a phone conversation..really..
@ Sinderella. I think the mere fact that Murray was administering propofol outside of a hospital setting AND without proper monitoring equipment is more then enough evidence then and there to proceed to a full trial..Not to forget too that he was supposedly on the phone to various people during the time he should have been taking care of Michael. He also neglected to tell paramedics that he had given Michael the propofol.
And who did he administer it to exactly?because from what you have written there you sound like you believe he gave it to Michael,and the majority of people on this forum don't believe that to be the case,so if you think Murray neglected Michael,and gave him propofol and so on,then you believe Michael is dead,because that is what those facts lead to.
So why are you here?No disrespect,but I don't see why anyone who believes Murray neglected Michael and caused his death is here.
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Murray to be arraigned january 25th 2011
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
these docs seem to be driver license and application form, so probably filled in not be the authorities, but probably MJ himself, so the question is how old MJ was when he filed an application. It is assumed for man to change height even until the age of 21. Maybe this is the reason why it says only 5'9.
This document was filled in, by hand, by Michael in 1984. He writes that he is 5' 9", 120lbs, his birthday is 8/29/58 and his middle name is "Joe". He would have been 25 or 26, depending on when he was getting or renewing the DL.
Seem unlikely that he would have been lying about these things 25 years ago (2009).
That's Michael's signature, but not his handwriting.
Chris Tucker is appx. 6' 1" (he is officially 6' 3/4"). Michael is only about 2 inches shorter than him.
I'm sorry, but Michael is not 5'9".
And yes, you generally are required to remove your shoes when being booked for a felony crime.
Ok whatever,that is your opinion and this information is coming directly from the FBI files on Michael Jackson. Michael would have filled in his DL application, which is what that is and yes, he signed it.
I don't disagree that the information you posted is in his FBI files. I disagree with your statement he filled it out.
It's not uncommon for a clerk to fill in the information then have the applicant affirm & sign it. I simply contend that's the case here as the written portion of the application does not appear to be Michael's unique handwriting.
Do you then agree the AR is correct & valid?
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From the FBI files.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7123/221234637.png)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/273/221235942.png)
these docs seem to be driver license and application form, so probably filled in not be the authorities, but probably MJ himself, so the question is how old MJ was when he filed an application. It is assumed for man to change height even until the age of 21. Maybe this is the reason why it says only 5'9.
This document was filled in, by hand, by Michael in 1984. He writes that he is 5' 9", 120lbs, his birthday is 8/29/58 and his middle name is "Joe". He would have been 25 or 26, depending on when he was getting or renewing the DL.
Seem unlikely that he would have been lying about these things 25 years ago (2009).
That's Michael's signature, but not his handwriting.
Chris Tucker is appx. 6' 1" (he is officially 6' 3/4"). Michael is only about 2 inches shorter than him.
I'm sorry, but Michael is not 5'9".
And yes, you generally are required to remove your shoes when being booked for a felony crime.
Ok whatever,that is your opinion and this information is coming directly from the FBI files on Michael Jackson. Michael would have filled in his DL application, which is what that is and yes, he signed it.
I don't disagree that the information you posted is in his FBI files. I disagree with your statement he filled it out.
It's not uncommon for a clerk to fill in the information then have the applicant affirm & sign it. I simply contend that's the case here as the written portion of the application does not appear to be Michael's unique handwriting.
Do you then agree the AR is correct & valid?
Encino Girl....I think you are spot on....especially in Michael's case, I can easily see someone else filling out the form for him for him to then sign...Michael probably had do to even the most mundane things slightly differently than the rest of the population...he was, after all, Michael Freakin' Jackson! lol
So I take it by this comment that the AR IS correct & valid in your opinion?
Peace to you, EG! ;)
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Encino Girl....I think you are spot on....especially in Michael's case, I can easily see someone else filling out the form for him for him to then sign...Michael probably had do to even the most mundane things slightly differently than the rest of the population...he was, after all, Michael Freakin' Jackson! lol
So I take it by this comment that the AR IS correct & valid in your opinion?
Peace to you, EG! ;)
FTR: I disagree completely with the AR. It's laden with inconsistencies, IMO.
Peace to you, too!
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Encino Girl....I think you are spot on....especially in Michael's case, I can easily see someone else filling out the form for him for him to then sign...Michael probably had do to even the most mundane things slightly differently than the rest of the population...he was, after all, Michael Freakin' Jackson! lol
So I take it by this comment that the AR IS correct & valid in your opinion?
Peace to you, EG! ;)
FTR: I disagree completely with the AR. It's laden with inconsistencies, IMO.
Peace to you, too!
Thanks, EG! I see what you meant now...sorry...OK, you've got me curious now....in your opinion, what is the single most glaring inconsistency in the AR?
L.O.V.E to you!
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Indeed!She keeps txting me questions.Converting everyone=massive phone bills haha.
I will get you the casket info.Can't recall where it is atm.
In my opinion,there is not enough evidence.From what I heard,saw,read and based on my own opinion which I am entitled to.My opinion is that it's BS.
EVERY story on that stand lacked credibility,everyone on there made no sense,had a different version of events,hadn't done their job in some way or another.
The paramedic didn't even know who he was trying to save until he overheard his name in a phone conversation..really..
@ Sinderella. I think the mere fact that Murray was administering propofol outside of a hospital setting AND without proper monitoring equipment is more then enough evidence then and there to proceed to a full trial..Not to forget too that he was supposedly on the phone to various people during the time he should have been taking care of Michael. He also neglected to tell paramedics that he had given Michael the propofol.
And who did he administer it to exactly?because from what you have written there you sound like you believe he gave it to Michael,and the majority of people on this forum don't believe that to be the case,so if you think Murray neglected Michael,and gave him propofol and so on,then you believe Michael is dead,because that is what those facts lead to.
So why are you here?No disrespect,but I don't see why anyone who believes Murray neglected Michael and caused his death is here.
I am still here because I am hoping to be proved wrong. I am about 99% sure that Mike is gone but even though I still have that 1% hope left it is still hope after all and so I will continue on coming here...There might be something that comes up that we have missed that points to an obvious hoax who knows. I simply cannot understand why IF Michael hoaxed his death that he would choose to go out in such a horrible and controversial way?
Why not a simple heart attack in his sleep?? That would have made sense too given the amount of stress he had been under these past few years. But now we have a big court case and a doctor involved. Surely there are other ways to die that would have caused less fuss? This has always been the one thing that I could never reconcile in my mind. I did think that Michael was helping the authorities bring down shady over prescribing doctors but now I am not even sure of that.
What I said the other day to you I meant..I am truly appreciative of all the hard work you have put in over this past week..Your updates have been very helpful and I am truly grateful.
IF this is a hoax then it is the most realistic hoax that I have ever heard of. I will admit that some things are just crazy..It's crazy that a doctor of medicine could be just so darn right stupid for one...Words fail me..But who knows anymore?
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Murray to be arraigned january 25th 2011
Well THAT didn't take long.
(http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/6541691f658fcdc9be1ce7f4334eb0de519da4b7.gif)
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I am still here because I am hoping to be proved wrong. I am about 99% sure that Mike is gone but even though I still have that 1% hope left it is still hope after all and so I will continue on coming here...There might be something that comes up that we have missed that points to an obvious hoax who knows. I simply cannot understand why IF Michael hoaxed his death that he would choose to go out in such a horrible and controversial way?
Sadly that echos pretty much what I have concluded after reading everything on the internet about this since June 25, 2009....two trial transcripts and watching tons of youtubes.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke...not up to performing... [HATED touring] and if he did not he would lose EVERYTHING.
Caught between a rock and a hard place.
I've pretty much concluded if he decided to disappear...
never to be seen again.
or that he was murdered...for the same reason's.
Regardless....if he is still walking this earth we may hear his work in some fashion...but we will never see him again...the stakes would be way too high for Michael to return....publically.
With that said...I just watch and see how things unfold.
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Encino Girl....I think you are spot on....especially in Michael's case, I can easily see someone else filling out the form for him for him to then sign...Michael probably had do to even the most mundane things slightly differently than the rest of the population...he was, after all, Michael Freakin' Jackson! lol
So I take it by this comment that the AR IS correct & valid in your opinion?
Peace to you, EG! ;)
FTR: I disagree completely with the AR. It's laden with inconsistencies, IMO.
Peace to you, too!
Thanks, EG! I see what you meant now...sorry...OK, you've got me curious now....in your opinion, what is the single most glaring inconsistency in the AR?
L.O.V.E to you!
Maybe the word inconsistency is the wrong word. Perhaps I should've said contradictions as in contradictions to current testimony ( Original reports of Murray originally finding him not breathing at 12:00 (haven't they changed that timeline?), moving him to the floor before calling 911), and the defense's preposterous claims of suicide.
Page 11, line 4 of the official AR:
The circumstances do not support self administration of propofol.
Perhaps this statement falls under the 'this report is subject to change pending further investigation" clause???
/sarcasm
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Encino Girl wrote:
Perhaps this statement falls under the 'this report is subject to change pending further investigation" clause???
/sarcasm
Well put, EG...well put!
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I don't believe nor have I ever believed that Michael Jackson was anywhere near broke. I think that is as big a load of poppycock as Conrad's Troot lips.
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I don't believe nor have I ever believed that Michael Jackson was anywhere near broke. I think that is as big a load of poppycock as Conrad's Troot lips.
I'd be willing to guarantee Michael wasn't broke. He may have run into financial difficulties or there may have been a lack of an immediate cash flow at some point in time, but he wasn't broke.
ETA: IMO
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OK, now I can declare myself officialy SCARED TO DEATH.
Oh Michael are you really really really dead :cry: ?
I still can not believe it :cry: :cry: :cry:
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OK, now I can declare myself officialy SCARED TO DEATH.
Oh Michael are you really really really dead :cry: ?
I still can not believe it :cry: :cry: :cry:
:|
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OK maybe this can help a little:
"Thirty years ago, Dr. George Nichopolous, was tried on the same charges in the death of Jackson’s father-in-law, Elvis Presley. The Tennessee Medical Board also moved to pull his license. Nichopolous was acquitted of manslaughter charges, and the board suspended him for three months."
http://www.showbizspy.com/article/19993 ... trial.html (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/199931/michael-jacksons-doctor-faces-a-thriller-of-a-trial.html)
......a thriller of a trial.......
Oh my heart is too weak for this rollercoaster.....
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OK maybe this can help a little:
"Thirty years ago, Dr. George Nichopolous, was tried on the same charges in the death of Jackson’s father-in-law, Elvis Presley. The Tennessee Medical Board also moved to pull his license. Nichopolous was acquitted of manslaughter charges, and the board suspended him for three months."
http://www.showbizspy.com/article/19993 ... trial.html (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/199931/michael-jacksons-doctor-faces-a-thriller-of-a-trial.html)
......a thriller of a trial.......
Oh my heart is too weak for this rollercoaster.....
It is so eerie the similarities between Elvis and Michael.. Thank you for this hun. I will say that out of the two of them if anyone could pull off a death hoax my money would be on Mike rather then Elvis..We will just have to see how this all pans out I guess.
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I am still here because I am hoping to be proved wrong. I am about 99% sure that Mike is gone but even though I still have that 1% hope left it is still hope after all and so I will continue on coming here...There might be something that comes up that we have missed that points to an obvious hoax who knows. I simply cannot understand why IF Michael hoaxed his death that he would choose to go out in such a horrible and controversial way?
Why not a simple heart attack in his sleep?? That would have made sense too given the amount of stress he had been under these past few years. But now we have a big court case and a doctor involved. Surely there are other ways to die that would have caused less fuss? This has always been the one thing that I could never reconcile in my mind. I did think that Michael was helping the authorities bring down shady over prescribing doctors but now I am not even sure of that.
IF this is a hoax then it is the most realistic hoax that I have ever heard of. I will admit that some things are just crazy..It's crazy that a doctor of medicine could be just so darn right stupid for one...Words fail me..But who knows anymore?
I have to say that all the things you mention that lead you to think he's dead, lead me to think he's alive!
'Surely there are other ways to die that would have caused less fuss?' - I agree absolutely! ... that is if you wanted to disappear, if it was a natural death or even if it was murder. The fact that there is all this 'fuss' as you put it, all these inconsistencies and conflicting, ever-changing stories, fake or staged photos, questionable documents etc etc, lead me to think someone WANTS the circumstances around MJ's 'death' to be questioned. Would a murderer want this? I think not. If you wanted to disappear would you want this? I think not. A murderer or a 'disappearer' would have made a better job of things!
I recognise MJ as a supreme entertainer, a pioneer, an innovator in his art, a perfectionist who when told his grand ideas had never been done before, said that's why he had to do them, who loves magic, mystery and illusion and who promised 'the best is yet to come' .... IMO he WANTS the world to see his 'death' for what it is - the biggest production of his life!
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So is this attack the newbie night?
As you can see I did not say he was broke...I said he was heading in that direction.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke.
Further more he had been in a mental and financial decline for years.
Those are facts and have nothing to do with Dr Murry's "troot lips"
Although, I suspect there was foul play involved...once again for the all
mighty dollar.
That alone would wear a sensitive artist down.
But hey!
Believe what you want to believe I am not here to try and change your mind OR argue with you...but if you follow his own money trail over the last few years it is pretty obvious....especially after the 2005 trial fiasco.
That was the last straw for him mentally....you can see it on his face after he walked out of the trial being found innocent of ALL accounts....and flew off to Bahrain.
He did not care anymore...and I can sympathize with that.
I really believe he has been in court more than any other celebrity.... ever.
Most was on trumped up money grubber's nonsense.
Then there are those people whom one has to wonder if they had his best interest at heart.
and the fact that he was supporting his whole family...to the extent that as
i am sure you have read he would have some of his siblings and father make an appointment to see him [pretty funny of MJ IMO.]
MJ did have a long standing prescription drug problem...which I found to be be very sad...and costly.
In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi ... gain-22420 (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/michael-jackson-1-can-john-branca-save-jackson-again-22420)
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Judge orders Michael Jackson doctor to stand trial
AP, Jan 11, 2011 9:24 pm PST
Dr. Conrad Murray, the physician who was demonized by Michael Jackson's family and fans, was ordered Tuesday to stand trial for involuntary manslaughter after court testimony showed he administered a powerful anesthetic and other sedatives then left the pop star alone.The ruling set the stage for what could be the final chapter in the Jackson saga — a high-profile trial that will examine all aspects of the star's death and try to finally place responsibility for his demise at the age of 50.
Witnesses at the six-day preliminary hearing filled a number of gaps in the story of Jackson's final hours, with accounts of his actions and the sad plight of two of his children watching briefly as their father lay dying.
Other witnesses recounted Murray's claim that he delayed calling 911 for perhaps more than an hour while he tried to revive the singer. A security guard indicated that Murray seemed to be rushing to hide evidence before paramedics arrived.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said the hearing included sufficient evidence to support a possible finding of guilt at trial. Murray's defense attorney Ed Chernoff and prosecutors declined comment on the ruling.
Jackson's famous family members were in court and welcomed the development.
"I'm happy so far," LaToya Jackson said while walking to her car. Randy Jackson thanked prosecutors while flashing a peace sign outside the courtroom.
Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty, and his attorneys have said he did not give Jackson anything that should have killed him. Murray could face up to four years in prison if convicted.
Compounding Murray's losses in court, the judge also granted a request by the California Medical Board to suspend his license to practice medicine in California. Murray currently has offices in Nevada and Texas, but the judge ordered him to notify authorities in those states of his suspension.
Chernoff pleaded with the judge not to take the action saying, "If you do that, he's dead in the water. He has no practice anymore. his patients have no doctor."
Pastor said he was acting in the interest of public safety and refused to stay the ruling for an appeal. He also declined to increase Murray's $75,000 bail, rejecting prosecution arguments that there was risk he would flee.
Witnesses at the preliminary hearing said Murray admitted giving Jackson the powerful anesthetic propofol and other sedatives then leaving him alone in his bedroom only to return and find him not breathing.
Murray's lawyers raised the possibility that Jackson, desperate for sleep, had self-administered the final dose of propofol, causing his own death.
Prosecutors concluded their case with testimony from two doctors who said Murray acted outside the standard of medical care when he administered the propofol and failed to provide proper care.
Both witnesses said that even if Jackson had self-administered the final dose of the drug, his death would be a homicide because of Murray's actions.
During closing arguments, defense attorney Joseph Low IV argued the case should be dismissed because prosecutors didn't adequately prove how Murray caused Jackson's death.
He also suggested Jackson's health may have been a contributing cause, saying, "Sometimes when it's your time to go, there's nothing you can do."
Deputy District Attorney David Walgren angrily disagreed.
"In contrast to Mr. Low's comment, let me just say, it was not Michael Jackson's time to go," "Because of Dr. Murray's actions, Michael's children are left without a father."One of the final witnesses was Dr. Christopher Rogers, chief of forensic medicine for the Los Angeles County coroner.
During cross-examination, defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan suggested Jackson could have swallowed propofol, which is meant to be administered intravenously.
While Rogers said that seemed unlikely, he said it would not have made a difference in his finding of homicide because of inadequate care by Murray.
Rogers also testified that propofol should not have been present in the bedroom because it was meant only for hospital settings. Jackson had a strong heart and was mostly healthy, Rogers added.
"The care was substandard," Rogers said. "There were several actions that should have been taken."
Rogers also testified that Murray was improperly using propofol to treat the musician for insomnia, and that Murray was wrong to leave Jackson's side while he was under anesthesia before he died.
Another witness. Dr. Richard Ruffalo, an anesthesiologist and clinical pharmacologist, gave the judge an exhaustive rundown on the sophisticated medical equipment that should have been present when Murray administered propofol in Jackson's bedroom.
Among the devices were monitoring equipment for heart and lungs and resuscitation equipment.
"You need to know what you're doing with the expectation your patient will wake up quickly," Ruffalo said. "Even if you're using propofol for a short time, it can do a lot of unfortunate things, especially if mixed with other drugs."
Prosecutors used testimony and phone records to create a timeline during the hearing of Jackson's final hours on June 25, 2009.
Detective Orlando Martinez said Murray told police he left the room for only two minutes after giving Jackson a 25 milligram dose of propofol about 10:40 a.m. He said he returned to find him not breathing.
Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:21 p.m.
Jackson's burly former bodyguard Alberto Alvarez testified that Murray instructed him to place medicine vials in bags before calling 911 on the day Jackson died. Two paramedics said Murray didn't tell them he had given Jackson propofol.
Martinez testified that Murray described a nearly 10-hour ordeal of trying to get Jackson to sleep, giving him a valium pill and two other sedatives intravenously before yielding to the singer's demands for propofol.
Jackson called the anesthetic his "milk," and coroner's investigators later found several vials of it in a bag labeled "Baby Essentials" in Jackson's closet.
Martinez said Jackson told Murray if he couldn't get sleep, he might have to cancel his widely heralded "This is It" comeback tour. The doctor spoke of feeling pressured to give the star the propofol he wanted, the detective said.
Jackson had been receiving propofol intravenously six nights a week for the two months before his death, Murray told detectives.
Pastor set Murray's next hearing for Jan. 25 when he will set a trial date.
http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jack ... --61990880 (http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jackson/news/judge-orders-michael-jackson-doctor-to-stand-trial--61990880)
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So is this attack the newbie night?
As you can see I did not say he was broke...I said he was heading in that direction.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke.
Further more he had been in a mental and financial decline for years.
Those are facts and have nothing to do with Dr Murry's "troot lips"
Although, I suspect there was foul play involved...once again for the all
mighty dollar.
That alone would wear a sensitive artist down.
But hey!
Believe what you want to believe I am not here to try and change your mind OR argue with you...but if you follow his own money trail over the last few years it is pretty obvious....especially after the 2005 trial fiasco.
That was the last straw for him mentally....you can see it on his face after he walked out of the trial being found innocent of ALL accounts....and flew off to Bahrain.
He did not care anymore...and I can sympathize with that.
I really believe he has been in court more than any other celebrity.... ever.
Most was on trumped up money grubber's nonsense.
Then there are those people whom one has to wonder if they had his best interest at heart.
and the fact that he was supporting his whole family...to the extent that as
i am sure you have read he would have some of his siblings and father make an appointment to see him [pretty funny of MJ IMO.]
MJ did have a long standing prescription drug problem...which I found to be be very sad...and costly.
In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi ... gain-22420 (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/michael-jackson-1-can-john-branca-save-jackson-again-22420)
With all due respect, I take issue with your post.
Do you honestly believe he looked weary and defeated after the trial because of money issues?
He'd just won the exhaustive fight for his life,for his freedom, for God's sake. He'd just gone through weeks of listening to the prosecution paint him as the most vile & depraved of all humans; one who preys on children for sexual gratification, to the world.
Murder. Rape. Theft. You name it, and the public would've been more forgiving had those been the charges against him, but being accused of pedophilia hangs a stigma over your head that cannot be erased, even if you're acquitted. The weight of an accusation alone has caused mentally strong persons to level a revolver at their temple and pull the trigger.
Mental decline? Oh, I beg to differ. Surely, he was depressed, and perhaps he was angry and bitter for a time. Who wouldn't be? Look at how society fractured over the verdict, and how it labeled him either completely innocent or guilty but got away with it. Michael persevered through the mire and muck, and he focused inward, on being a great father to his children, succeeding as is evidenced by the composure of his children, and eventually to making a complete comeback.
He was used and abused by people in whom he put his trust, strangers, and even his family, and not once did he fail to continue to be the epitome of forgiveness. That, my friend, takes a man who's center is peace, and who's mind is strong. A lesser or weaker man would've remained bitter & broken, but Michael didn't.
Mental decline my ass.
Oh, IMO...
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So is this attack the newbie night?
As you can see I did not say he was broke...I said he was heading in that direction.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke.
Further more he had been in a mental and financial decline for years.
Those are facts and have nothing to do with Dr Murry's "troot lips"
Although, I suspect there was foul play involved...once again for the all
mighty dollar.
That alone would wear a sensitive artist down.
But hey!
Believe what you want to believe I am not here to try and change your mind OR argue with you...but if you follow his own money trail over the last few years it is pretty obvious....especially after the 2005 trial fiasco.
That was the last straw for him mentally....you can see it on his face after he walked out of the trial being found innocent of ALL accounts....and flew off to Bahrain.
He did not care anymore...and I can sympathize with that.
I really believe he has been in court more than any other celebrity.... ever.
Most was on trumped up money grubber's nonsense.
Then there are those people whom one has to wonder if they had his best interest at heart.
and the fact that he was supporting his whole family...to the extent that as
i am sure you have read he would have some of his siblings and father make an appointment to see him [pretty funny of MJ IMO.]
MJ did have a long standing prescription drug problem...which I found to be be very sad...and costly.
In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi ... gain-22420 (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/michael-jackson-1-can-john-branca-save-jackson-again-22420)
Thank you and very well said..I think the problem occurs when some fans put Michael on a pedestal that is up there next to Jesus..I mean god forbid if he DID have a drug problem because that would have made him human..That would have made Michael Jackson like the rest of us, imperfect.
That last trial in 2005 destroyed him both mentally and physically..Personally I don't think he ever recovered. I just wish to god he would have stayed in Bahrain or Ireland. I know he loved Ireland in particular.
I think that Murray is either the most stupid and incompetent doctor that ever walked OR he was set up. He could be a cold blooded murderer but I doubt it...I don't see him in that light but then stranger things have happened.
Even IF and it is a big IF someone else died that day instead of Michael, laws were broken and justice needs to be served.
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encino_girl
With all due respect, I take issue with your post.
Do you honestly believe he looked weary and defeated after the trial because of money issues?
He'd just won the exhaustive fight for his life,for his freedom, for God's sake. He'd just gone through weeks of listening to the prosecution paint him as the most vile & depraved of all humans; one who preys on children for sexual gratification, to the world.
Murder. Rape. Theft. You name it, and the public would've been more forgiving had those been the charges against him, but being accused of pedophilia hangs a stigma over your head that cannot be erased, even if you're acquitted. The weight of an accusation alone has caused mentally strong persons to level a revolver at their temple and pull the trigger.
Mental decline? Oh, I beg to differ. Surely, he was depressed, and perhaps he was angry and bitter for a time. Who wouldn't be? Look at how society fractured over the verdict, and how it labeled him either completely innocent or guilty but got away with it. Michael persevered through the mire and muck, and he focused inward, on being a great father to his children, succeeding as is evidenced by the composure of his children, and eventually to making a complete comeback.
He was used and abused by people in whom he put his trust, strangers, and even his family, and not once did he fail to continue to be the epitome of forgiveness. That, my friend, takes a man who's center is peace, and who's mind is strong. A lesser or weaker man would've remained bitter & broken, but Michael didn't.
Mental decline my ass.
Oh, IMO...
Excellent post!
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by GramsGirl63 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:51 am
Thank you and very well said.
.I think the problem occurs when some fans put Michael on a pedestal that is up there next to Jesus
I say amen to that. :)
LOL if you are not telling the truth about the true culprit. ;)
A Modern day Idol worship.
Mike may be/have been many great things but he was no JESUS by anyone's honest reckoning IMO.
@ RunFaYaLife
I totally appreciated your honest take and observation of the whole matter in your above post. :)
It is always very sad to see people, who only wish to see the good side of our beloved Mike ,and nothing of the downside in his humanity.
Believe it or not Michael Jackson was human just like the rest of of us. :o
And yes, Michael Jackson has/ had greatness, but so did have/has numerous glaring weaknesses as well. ;)
Dito for you to post your honest take about Mike and some of his issues..
It may remind some of us to keep a more healthy and honest balance in our assessment of Michael KOP.. :)
Peace.
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I'm going to try this comment one more time lol. Surely the most glaringly obvious error in this whole thing is that the original 911 call was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel!!! why oh why wasn't this even mentioned in the prelim. I'm no detective but if this was "real" it has to be the most damning piece of evidence yet no one seems to be questioning why.
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If MJ was trying to teach everyone what he went through in the 2005 trial then having a trial for CM shouldn't get you down...MJ is innocent and he still went to trial...CM is innocent and is going to trial...whether CM is convicted or not or pleads guilty of not MJ is no doubt alive...I remember the other day someone was saying MJ also wants all of us to keep guessing not just non believers...he doesn't want to just shock the non believers when he gets back but everybody which means everyone who thinks he is still alive.
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[attachment=0:1f6x0f94]images (8).jpg[/attachment:1f6x0f94]
I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM CRYING,BUT I WILL NOT GIVE UP ON YOU MICHAEL.....XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Personally I think everyone should go put the kettle on,make some tea and watch Dave Dave on Larry King again for the millionth time and remember how convinced you were 18months ago.
I am pretty sure he knows exactly what he is doing.
D,suck it up and dry the tears <3
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I'm going to try this comment one more time lol. Surely the most glaringly obvious error in this whole thing is that the original 911 call was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel!!! why oh why wasn't this even mentioned in the prelim. I'm no detective but if this was "real" it has to be the most damning piece of evidence yet no one seems to be questioning why.
good point
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...he doesn't want to just shock the non believers when he gets back but everybody which means everyone who thinks he is still alive.
I thought he wanted the non believers to come around...... now I think he wants to turn the believers into non believers so he can shock us too..... oh, we can speculate years from now on......
Sinderella I will take your advice and watch Dave Dave again......
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Sinderella I will take your advice and watch Dave Dave again......
Gina,I really hope you're ok,please don't be scared.
There is time before anything else significant goes down so that is just my suggestion,go back to the start and look at everything that brought you to be here,and try to feel more positive <3
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I'm going to try this comment one more time lol. Surely the most glaringly obvious error in this whole thing is that the original 911 call was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel!!! why oh why wasn't this even mentioned in the prelim. I'm no detective but if this was "real" it has to be the most damning piece of evidence yet no one seems to be questioning why.
good point
Alberto Alvarez is said to have made the 911 call, indeed, he testified in Court to that very fact. Surely if he made the call from the Beverly Hills Hotel, he would have had no idea what was going on in MJ's room at Carolwood. This is so frustrating as this should have been immediately jumped upon but it just seems to have been ignored. Here in the UK, this would be one of the first things that would have been questioned. Does anyone have any idea why this extroadinary fact is being ignored by not only the Court but the media and to some extent the members on this forum.
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Indeed!She keeps txting me questions.Converting everyone=massive phone bills haha.
I will get you the casket info.Can't recall where it is atm.
In my opinion,there is not enough evidence.From what I heard,saw,read and based on my own opinion which I am entitled to.My opinion is that it's BS.
EVERY story on that stand lacked credibility,everyone on there made no sense,had a different version of events,hadn't done their job in some way or another.
The paramedic didn't even know who he was trying to save until he overheard his name in a phone conversation..really..
@ Sinderella. I think the mere fact that Murray was administering propofol outside of a hospital setting AND without proper monitoring equipment is more then enough evidence then and there to proceed to a full trial..Not to forget too that he was supposedly on the phone to various people during the time he should have been taking care of Michael. He also neglected to tell paramedics that he had given Michael the propofol.
And who did he administer it to exactly?because from what you have written there you sound like you believe he gave it to Michael,and the majority of people on this forum don't believe that to be the case,so if you think Murray neglected Michael,and gave him propofol and so on,then you believe Michael is dead,because that is what those facts lead to.
So why are you here?No disrespect,but I don't see why anyone who believes Murray neglected Michael and caused his death is here.
I am still here because I am hoping to be proved wrong. I am about 99% sure that Mike is gone but even though I still have that 1% hope left it is still hope after all and so I will continue on coming here...There might be something that comes up that we have missed that points to an obvious hoax who knows. I simply cannot understand why IF Michael hoaxed his death that he would choose to go out in such a horrible and controversial way?
Why not a simple heart attack in his sleep?? That would have made sense too given the amount of stress he had been under these past few years. But now we have a big court case and a doctor involved. Surely there are other ways to die that would have caused less fuss? This has always been the one thing that I could never reconcile in my mind. I did think that Michael was helping the authorities bring down shady over prescribing doctors but now I am not even sure of that.
What I said the other day to you I meant..I am truly appreciative of all the hard work you have put in over this past week..Your updates have been very helpful and I am truly grateful.
IF this is a hoax then it is the most realistic hoax that I have ever heard of. I will admit that some things are just crazy..It's crazy that a doctor of medicine could be just so darn right stupid for one...Words fail me..But who knows anymore?
I just keep going back to the day when my English professor told me that when you can convey a story in a fashion that will blur the lines between fiction and reality for your reader you have become a successful writer. I can say that the hoax author is really apt in drawing us in and emotionally hooking us until we become invested and drained. In fact, it is so well written that people are having a difficult time pulling themselves out of the story. Emotions are powerful and I can assure you that the author of any moving piece of art-whether in visual or word interpretation-is a mastermind to have accomplished this!
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This is the kind of evidence I was talking about.I know Murray was at Carolwood and it's been proven he ordered propofol etc....but there are vital and quite OBVIOUS facts that have been totally ignored.
No one asked why the ambulance reversed with no sirens on...surely that classes as negligent behaviour on the part of the paramedics who had a human life hanging in the balance,so why are they not being partially blamed?Those vital mins that they waited for Murray to 'clean up' the bedroom....also negligent to whoever was inside that ambulance.
No one has mentioned the BH at all.
No one has mentioned why there are no images AT ALL that exist from that day apart from ambulance reversing and trash cans,I mean these are questions that should have been investigated and honestly from what I can see there was no investigation,just someone asking Murrays GF questions about drug deliveries.
90% of what was found in the house was either not collected or remains untested.
For the amount of cleaning done by Murray,there was a shit load left wasn't there?I really can't see Michael leaving vials of drugs around the house when he has 3 children under 15,he loved them beyond life,how would he live with himself if one of them had an accident with any of the stuff lying around?Syringes,drugs,pills...Blanket finding one and thinking it was candy I mean,I'm sorry I just don't see him being that reckless.
I am not ignoring what has come out in the past 6days,I have given part of my theory on the whole thing and how they could be telling the truth.I just think more was not said,than said and the point of a prelim is to get all the facts out in the open.From where I am sitting that never happened.
I look at those things because to me,you can't have a fair,honest,REAL trial without everything being brought out-but then that is the point isn't it...Michael's trial went the same way...barely any evidence and someone driving it behind the scene's.
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I, like you Sinders, find it incredibly slap dash. I find myself getting more and more angry with the whole thing. From my personal point of view, I am positive Michael is alive but that aside, this whole investigation, prelim etc. is nothing more than a joke. They only seem interested in Murray and the meds which makes me think this all about catching the docs who provide drugs at the drop of a hat. I have mentioned before I have worked in the legal profession here in the UK for over 25 years now and here, at least, we would start investigating at the very beginning (the 911 call, everything in the bedroom etc) but over there in LA there are obviously different rules.
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Which is EXACTLY why it was not done-for whatever reasons are yet to emerge-in the UK.
This would have been investigated in a way that the LAPD just haven't done.Nothing would have been left in that room,nothing would have been not fingerprinted,I mean for god's sake,that is a vital part of forensics and yet....it was ignored.
Trying to pull any of this off after June wouldn't have worked.
I am 100% convinced because of my job and what I've read and researched so far,the 02 shows were never going to happen....it was merley for the DVD movie we got afterwards.
That is seperate in my head atm though,the fact so much has been left out is what is bugging me most.
There are other members on here,who also work in the legal world and in the medical world and neither of them can fathom how any of this is going on.
ANY Dr no matter what area knows basic CPR,anyone who has done first aid in highschool or for work knows basic CPR.Why hasn't more been said on his lack of skills and more been looked into regarding his dodgy addresses and so on.They seemed more interested in getting his multiple girlfriends on the stand to discuss how they met,how many nights a week he was at each...it isn't a sex scandal case,it's manslaughter.
I know he called each of them,but still,they were questioned more on their private lives than Kenny was on Michael's health...which is what I thought this was supposed to be about....
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Exactly Sinders. I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol. Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.
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Exactly Sinders. I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol. Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.
Well I am only stating facts which is all I ever try to do and they are to the best of my knowledge or that I know to be true just because I do.
I don't see something that can be linked to something else and those to other things...y'know what I mean...there is no solid beliveable chain of events.
Everything in life is due to a chain of events-I woke up>showered>got ready>went to a meeting...you know my day flows ,this whole mess does not flow.
Hollywood isn't even ready for this...It is about to get a very hard slap in the face.
This trial, if nothing else will blow open the underground world of Dr's ordering drugs that should only be used in a hospital setting,with proper medical care and equipment which goes on DAILY.Mainly in LA.
After this I would hope no Dr of any celebrity or any Dr in general can order those kinds of drugs when they only run a general practice,they have no use for them in there so clearly they are going to people who can afford to pay for them in cash,cars,houses.
Celebrities are being taken advantage of by people who are yes men/women and know exactly how to manipulate the trust those kinds of people have in them..not to tell their secrets.That is what they really pay for,the hush hush of it all.
Hollywood is a Monster.
" Hollywood it's got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It's got you bouncing off the wall
It's got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Don't you, don't you like it?
Monster...he's a monster"
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In TMZ live a couple of day ago, Harvey said he is not sure that the time of death is accurate. He makes it seem like he thinks it is earlier. :shock: The family members say this too. They don't mean an by an hour. They have reasons to believe this is true. So then where does that leave us?? Harvey is a lawyer so he knows that it's perjury if you say you gave him propofol at 10:50 when that is a lie because he was already dead. There is also the call that Klein says on tmz that his office got that morning from Murray/jackson's house. Harvey has reason to believe that it's earlier so that means, if he has information that the death was much earlier, then much of what we have heard so far is a lie??????? Harvey stated right on TMZ live that there is more to the story. All I can imagine is that Murray is going to take a plea deal and we will never hear the truth. Also the Beverly Hills Hotel has been "explained" that it was the closest ping tower or something ridic.
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The ping tower excuse is not working with me and I know for a fact that this is incorrect. My husband works in the mental health field and because his job carries a risk of his patients being violent, his mobile phone is monitored by his office and they are able to pinpoint exactly where he is, down to the address not the tower which is carrying the signal. If this sytem works where I live which is in the countryside then I'm sure it works the same in a city.
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Its also not normal to let the family into the house to take away (or take in) loads of stuff which could be vital to the investigation - before the police had even been there.
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It's also not normal for some wash up old manager to blurt out to the little children that their father had died when the hospital hadn't even notified next of kin. What I do get either, is if Harvey publicly said that he believes that Michael died much earlier, then can't he be brought into court to explain what has led him to say this? And if Klein got a phone call much earlier, and he stated publicly that he did, then shouldn't he been in court explaining too. There are whole lot of people who know what really happened and nooooo one is talking except in little riddles. If this is not a hoax and this is real life...I don't think there are words....
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The ping tower excuse is not working with me and I know for a fact that this is incorrect. My husband works in the mental health field and because his job carries a risk of his patients being violent, his mobile phone is monitored by his office and they are able to pinpoint exactly where he is, down to the address not the tower which is carrying the signal. If this sytem works where I live which is in the countryside then I'm sure it works the same in a city.
I always found this "it was the closest tower" explanation strange because as far as I know it is indeed possible to exactly find out from where a call came. So thank you for confirming this! :)
You all are right, there are so many odd things and contradictions...
So I still believe this is a hoax.
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Its also not normal to let the family into the house to take away (or take in) loads of stuff which could be vital to the investigation - before the police had even been there.
Honestly, I can't believe this myself. You clearly have a suspicious death of a high profile person, which will most definitely warrant an investigation, and you do not immediately secure the scene???
OTOH, just why was it necessary for the family to immediately remove personal effects?
I'm curious to see how this plays into the defense of Murray, and I think it will in some fashion. IMO, investigators failed to maintain the basic protocol for identifying, establishing, protecting, and securing a potential crime scene. The investigators failed to follow the basic fundamental principles, policies and procedures of investigating a crime scene and preserving evidence.
Principles from Investigations For Dummies as I remember them (paraphrased):
One of the most important aspects of securing the crime scene is to preserve the scene with minimal contamination and disturbance of physical evidence. The initial response to an incident should be expeditious
and methodical. Upon arrival, the officer(s) should assess the scene and treat the incident as a crime scene.
They also failed to establish boundaries by failing to control the flow of persons entering and leaving the scene to maintain integrity of the scene.
Remember two key words a jury will hear:
Reasonable doubt.
Such impropriety can plant a seed of reasonable doubt.
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by GramsGirl63 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:51 am
Thank you and very well said.
.I think the problem occurs when some fans put Michael on a pedestal that is up there next to Jesus
I say amen to that. :)
LOL if you are not telling the truth about the true culprit. ;)
A Modern day Idol worship.
Mike may be/have been many great things but he was no JESUS by anyone's honest reckoning IMO.
@ RunFaYaLife
I totally appreciated your honest take and observation of the whole matter in your above post. :)
It is always very sad to see people, who only wish to see the good side of our beloved Mike ,and nothing of the downside in his humanity.
Believe it or not Michael Jackson was human just like the rest of of us. :o
And yes, Michael Jackson has/ had greatness, but so did have/has numerous glaring weaknesses as well. ;)
Dito for you to post your honest take about Mike and some of his issues..
It may remind some of us to keep a more healthy and honest balance in our assessment of Michael KOP.. :)
Peace.
I don't worship Michael, nor do I fail to realize him as a human being with flaws and shortcomings just like the rest of us. Let me make that clear right now.
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Exactly Sinders. I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol. Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.
Well I am only stating facts which is all I ever try to do and they are to the best of my knowledge or that I know to be true just because I do.
I don't see something that can be linked to something else and those to other things...y'know what I mean...there is no solid beliveable chain of events.
Everything in life is due to a chain of events-I woke up>showered>got ready>went to a meeting...you know my day flows ,this whole mess does not flow.
Hollywood isn't even ready for this...It is about to get a very hard slap in the face.
This trial, if nothing else will blow open the underground world of Dr's ordering drugs that should only be used in a hospital setting,with proper medical care and equipment which goes on DAILY.Mainly in LA.
After this I would hope no Dr of any celebrity or any Dr in general can order those kinds of drugs when they only run a general practice,they have no use for them in there so clearly they are going to people who can afford to pay for them in cash,cars,houses.
Celebrities are being taken advantage of by people who are yes men/women and know exactly how to manipulate the trust those kinds of people have in them..not to tell their secrets.That is what they really pay for,the hush hush of it all.
Hollywood is a Monster.
" Hollywood it's got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It's got you bouncing off the wall
It's got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Don't you, don't you like it?
Monster...he's a monster"
A lot of Dr. Feelgood's are probably shitting in their Armani suits about now. Perhaps that's one purpose of this trial??
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MJ has a messiah complex. That is certain.
It matters not what WE believe, only what MJ believes and yes, all signs indicate that he believes he is Christ like and was sent here to save mankind.
I don't understand why this is a problem. I find it a wonderful thing. Who else would care that much about humanity? We should be grateful, not antagonistic. Let him believe that... WE all benefit from it.
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All I know is that if i was involved in the death of a drug addict that possibly self injected while i was away for few minutes...No way i would touch anything about the "crime scene" and i would call the cops so they witness the victim fingerprint on bottles and syringes, and i would not "clean the room" to appear as guilty as possible.
This is a real man's laughter ...
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MJ has a messiah complex. That is certain.
It matters not what WE believe, only what MJ believes and yes, all signs indicate that he believes he is Christ like and was sent here to save mankind.
I don't understand why this is a problem. I find it a wonderful thing. Who else would care that much about humanity? We should be grateful, not antagonistic. Let him believe that... WE all benefit from it.
Actually, we should all desire to be so Christ-like, and endeavor to love & serve our fellow man. There's absolutely nothing blasphemous about such a mind set. In fact, if you're of the Christian faith, it's biblical.
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Exactly Sinders. I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol. Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.
Well I am only stating facts which is all I ever try to do and they are to the best of my knowledge or that I know to be true just because I do.
I don't see something that can be linked to something else and those to other things...y'know what I mean...there is no solid beliveable chain of events.
Everything in life is due to a chain of events-I woke up>showered>got ready>went to a meeting...you know my day flows ,this whole mess does not flow.
Hollywood isn't even ready for this...It is about to get a very hard slap in the face.
This trial, if nothing else will blow open the underground world of Dr's ordering drugs that should only be used in a hospital setting,with proper medical care and equipment which goes on DAILY.Mainly in LA.
After this I would hope no Dr of any celebrity or any Dr in general can order those kinds of drugs when they only run a general practice,they have no use for them in there so clearly they are going to people who can afford to pay for them in cash,cars,houses.
Celebrities are being taken advantage of by people who are yes men/women and know exactly how to manipulate the trust those kinds of people have in them..not to tell their secrets.That is what they really pay for,the hush hush of it all.
Hollywood is a Monster.
" Hollywood it's got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It's got you bouncing off the wall
It's got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Don't you, don't you like it?
Monster...he's a monster"
A lot of Dr. Feelgood's are probably shitting in their Armani suits about now. Perhaps that's one purpose of this trial??
Damn right they are,signing cars and bank accounts over to other peoples names as we speak for fear of getting their Assets frozen or seized.
I do believe this is part of what this is is all about along with the lying and the justice system being whack.
Also,the police and call center for 911 triangulate the cell's signal,so even if the address is unknown they can still find you in some sort of reasonable time frame.It is so the police/emergency services can't be accused of not attending to the scene in the fastest time possible.Imagine how many law suits there would be from people saying
'well you took 4hours to reach me and i've lost my leg now or,my wife bled to death'
That cell phone will have come from exactly where it says it came from.
All I know is that if i was involved in the death of a drug addict that possibly self injected while i was away for few minutes...No way i would touch anything about the "crime scene" and i would call the cops so they witness the victim fingerprint on bottles and syringes, and i would not "clean the room" to appear as guilty as possible.
This is a real man's laughter ...
Definitley,and the fact they waited around for him to do so...they SAW him from the ground floor,3floors up through the window...amazing skills.haha.
There is no way the LAPD should have left that house open for 4days,even if it was a death of natural causes,they should of taped it off anyway for privacy and forensics hours later.So why aren't they partially liable for this being a mess?No one has been accused of planting evidence due to there being access to the house,which they can't do because they never fingerprinted anything or anyone.
There was a truck taking stuff away from the house,who know's what was inside that,pretty sure it wasn't the furniture,I fail to see how the removal of a sofa is of immidiate importance when your son/brother has just died suddenly.
"OH WOE,I'M SO SAD AND NEED TO GRIEVE,BUT FIRST I MUST GET THAT SOFA OUT OF THE LOUNGE"
ALSO lets not forget the ladies shirt that was left hanging in the closet with blood on that they LEFT BEHIND and deemed non important to the investigation.er?
Even if it played no part in the case....who the fuck keeps a blood soaked woman's shirt in their closet?
Where was all this evidence/info last week?Questions on why it was left open for people to come and go as they pleased,move stuff...leave stuff....seriously,I can't sum up more words for how much BS is floating around this entire fiasco.
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I don't think there are any more words apart from BS. Mobile phones (or cell phones) can 100% be traced to their exact location and if you read the fire tender's screen it actually says "query caller" or words to that effect. There is far too much evidence here that has not been mentioned in Court. The house should have been immediately sealed to preserve evidence. When my aunt died suddenly in my house (I was out at the time), I was stopped from entering my own front door by the police until the doctor had been called and confirmed no foul play. It is totally ridiculous to let the family in at all times of the day and night. I'm getting angry again and I promised myself I wouldn't lol. :?
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Anger in this scenario is healthy though I think,and it is probably keeping your belief alive,knowing that all these things that are..and lets all be clear on this..STANDARD PROCEDURES do not exist in this case.
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@Sinderella. Can you think of any other high profile case (except Elvis) where standad procedures and normal protocol have not been followed.
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MJ has a messiah complex. That is certain.
It matters not what WE believe, only what MJ believes and yes, all signs indicate that he believes he is Christ like and was sent here to save mankind.
I don't understand why this is a problem. I find it a wonderful thing. Who else would care that much about humanity? We should be grateful, not antagonistic. Let him believe that... WE all benefit from it.
Actually, we should all desire to be so Christ-like, and endeavor to love & serve our fellow man. There's absolutely nothing blasphemous about such a mind set. In fact, if you're of the Christian faith, it's biblical.
I think Michael is very Christ like. Nothing wrong with that, on the contrary, we all should be more like both of them, isn't that what the bible says ? Did people exactly know who Jesus was 2000 years ago ? Do we exactly know who Michael is in this moment ? He surely is a better person than most of us and than those who betrade him.
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Anger in this scenario is healthy though I think,and it is probably keeping your belief alive,knowing that all these things that are..and lets all be clear on this..STANDARD PROCEDURES do not exist in this case.
Sin, I may be way off base here, but my instinct tells me the failure to follow standard protocol was intentional.
If I'm wrong, if it wasn't a concerted effort to consciously neglect and deviate from standard procedure, and if I was a citizen under the jurisdiction of this law enforcement agency, I'd be livid that such incompetency was tolerated.
@Sinderella. Can you think of any other high profile case (except Elvis) where standad procedures and normal protocol have not been followed.
Good question peggy99. None involving a celebrity as high profile as Michael or Elvis that I can recall. The parallels between the two cases are so similar, too.
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Anger in this scenario is healthy though I think,and it is probably keeping your belief alive,knowing that all these things that are..and lets all be clear on this..STANDARD PROCEDURES do not exist in this case.
Sin, I may be way off base here, but my instinct tells me the failure to follow standard protocol was intentional. If I'm wrong, if it wasn't a concerted effort to consciously neglect and deviate from standard procedure, and if I was a citizen under the jurisdiction of this law enforcement agency, I'd be livid that such incompetency was tolerated.
No no,I don't think you're off base,it can only really be intentional because if not,something is seriously seriously wrong with the LAPD and UCLA.
As for being angry,I just meant-(hmm..how to express what I mean without offending people er..) being angry that you see it,and the reasons for them not existing-or some of the reasons, and other people don't and are losing their belief.
Does that make sense? :/
(BTW everyone,I have done day 5,lots to do for yesterday but i'll have them up by the weekend,I haven't forgot,I just got busy again sorry x)
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(BTW everyone,I have done day 5,lots to do for yesterday but i'll have them up by the weekend,I haven't forgot,I just got busy again sorry x)
Bet you're pleased the prelim ended early! Thanks for all your work. xx
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(BTW everyone,I have done day 5,lots to do for yesterday but i'll have them up by the weekend,I haven't forgot,I just got busy again sorry x)
Bet you're pleased the prelim ended early! Thanks for all your work. xx
Haha!kinda...but I would of gone on with it if it had of lasted the 2/3weeks.
You are very welcome,thank you for reading it all and contributing in the thread thus far <3
Also,just off(but kinda on)topic,Just read this article about the rise in kids taking their parents prescription drugs and being arrested in Santa Monica High School.Disturbing but shows that there is a drug problem in LA even if you aren't rich and famous.
WTF are these parents on/and why?!
http://laist.com/2011/01/12/prescription_drug_arrests_on_the_ri.php
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Breaking news
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/12/conrad-murray-medical-michael-jackson-license-texas-medical-board-nevada-state-board-examiners-condition-of-bail-manslaughter/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Dr. Murray's Medical Shingle Hangin' By a Thread
4 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
Conrad Murray's medical career may not have flatlined -- TMZ has learned the medical boards in Texas and Nevada will not automatically suspend his license just because a California judge did.
Sources connected with the Texas Medical Board and the Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners tell TMZ they are weighing their options regarding the suspension of Murray's medical license.
Murray's California medical license was suspended yesterday as a condition of bail in his ongoing Michael Jackson manslaughter case.
But we're told ... because a judge suspended Murray's license and not the California Medical Board -- TX and NV don't feel compelled to follow suit and issue suspensions in their states.
We're told Murray's attorney, Charles Peckham, has been in talks with the NV med board and is making contact with TX as well -- but no word on when a final decision will be made.
[/b]
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This is the kind of evidence I was talking about.I know Murray was at Carolwood and it's been proven he ordered propofol etc....but there are vital and quite OBVIOUS facts that have been totally ignored.
No one asked why the ambulance reversed with no sirens on...surely that classes as negligent behaviour on the part of the paramedics who had a human life hanging in the balance,so why are they not being partially blamed?Those vital mins that they waited for Murray to 'clean up' the bedroom....also negligent to whoever was inside that ambulance.
No one has mentioned the BH at all.
No one has mentioned why there are no images AT ALL that exist from that day apart from ambulance reversing and trash cans,I mean these are questions that should have been investigated and honestly from what I can see there was no investigation,just someone asking Murrays GF questions about drug deliveries.
90% of what was found in the house was either not collected or remains untested.
For the amount of cleaning done by Murray,there was a shit load left wasn't there?I really can't see Michael leaving vials of drugs around the house when he has 3 children under 15,he loved them beyond life,how would he live with himself if one of them had an accident with any of the stuff lying around?Syringes,drugs,pills...Blanket finding one and thinking it was candy I mean,I'm sorry I just don't see him being that reckless.
I am not ignoring what has come out in the past 6days,I have given part of my theory on the whole thing and how they could be telling the truth.I just think more was not said,than said and the point of a prelim is to get all the facts out in the open.From where I am sitting that never happened.I look at those things because to me,you can't have a fair,honest,REAL trial without everything being brought out-but then that is the point isn't it...Michael's trial went the same way...barely any evidence and someone driving it behind the scene's.
Of course not every little detail was brought out at the prelim, because it was just that: a preliminary hearing to determine whether or not there is enough evidence that Murray was negligent in his care. That was the entire purpose of the hearing. Obviously he was negligent and now it will go to trial. I expect that we will get more questions answered then.
It seems to me that Murray tried to keep the Propofol a secret. Remember that he disappeared for two days and it was during that time that Sheryl Lee (the nutritionist/NP) came out and revealed that MJ had asked her for Propofol. Until that time no one even looked into it. Of course, Murray had no other choice then to fess up to it, because they would then look into Propofol in toxicology tests.
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I know what a prelim trial is and what the purpose of it is.
Negligent to whom exactly?
Sorry but your answer to me there reads like you also believe he was negligent to Michael,and I am going to have to firmly disagree with you.If I believed that,I wouldn't be here.
How did he hide it?he had half sent to his Vegas practise and the rest sent to SM.He never told the pharmacist who he was treating so he couldn't exactly give in Michael's address-not very confidential that is it really?
The house was searched on June 25th,by Fleak and she took a lot of evidence and went back for more on June 29th.If he had wanted to hide any involvement apart from ordering the stuff,he could of packed ALL the vials up not just a few while the ambulance waited for him or better still not touched anything at all and had no fingerprints on anything.
But it wouldn't have mattered..because they never printed anything or anyone anyway.
My point about the prelim and lack of evidence,is that vital parts where ignored/left out/overlooked/whatever you want to call it...and instead we heard,well I did,a very long winded cross examination of his GF being asked who the father of her child was,when did she get pregnant,where did they meet,where did he stay,how many times a week,was he home for dinner/breakfast,what time
Seriously..who gives a fuck,I'm sure there are more important things to be talking about in a manslaughter prelim than how many times Conrad Murray got laid per week or the fact his ex exotic stripper gf bootycall woman had to count on her fingers backwards to answer a question on when she got pregnant.
Infact,I will go as far as to say I KNOW there are more important things to be talked about.
I'm not saying it wasn't intentional that so much was left out,I am amused by it and I already explained/answered Encinogirl a few posts back,I am just saying....for a prelim trial..a lot of shit was missing.
IF it goes to trial,they are already working on a deal for him...
In the words of Mr Back...KW.
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I know what a prelim trial is and what the purpose of it is.
Negligent to whom exactly?
Sorry but your answer to me there reads like you also believe he was negligent to Michael,and I am going to have to firmly disagree with you.If I believed that,I wouldn't be here.How did he hide it?he had half sent to his Vegas practise and the rest sent to SM.He never told the pharmacist who he was treating so he couldn't exactly give in Michael's address-not very confidential that is it really?
The house was searched on June 25th,by Fleak and she took a lot of evidence and went back for more on June 29th.If he had wanted to hide any involvement apart from ordering the stuff,he could of packed ALL the vials up not just a few while the ambulance waited for him or better still not touched anything at all and had no fingerprints on anything.
But it wouldn't have mattered..because they never printed anything or anyone anyway.
My point about the prelim and lack of evidence,is that vital parts where ignored/left out/overlooked/whatever you want to call it...and instead we heard,well I did,a very long winded cross examination of his GF being asked who the father of her child was,when did she get pregnant,where did they meet,where did he stay,how many times a week,was he home for dinner/breakfast,what time
Seriously..who gives a fuck,I'm sure there are more important things to be talking about in a manslaughter prelim than how many times Conrad Murray got laid per week or the fact his ex exotic stripper gf bootycall woman had to count on her fingers backwards to answer a question on when she got pregnant.
Infact,I will go as far as to say I KNOW there are more important things to be talked about.
I'm not saying it wasn't intentional that so much was left out,I am amused by it and I already explained/answered Encinogirl a few posts back,I am just saying....for a prelim trial..a lot of shit was missing.
IF it goes to trial,they are already working on a deal for him...
In the words of Mr Back...KW.
You missunderstand me. I am not saying that Murray was negligent to Michael. I am saying that is the assumption the hearing was set for. And as far as questioning his GF... well, that was to establish a time line and habits.
We cannot expect the court to think like we do. They believe Michael to be dead at the hands of an incompetent doctor. Whether all the inconsistencies and contradiction we are aware of come out remains to be seen. We will have to wait for the trial.
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Of course not every little detail was brought out at the prelim, because it was just that: a preliminary hearing to determine whether or not there is enough evidence that Murray was negligent in his care. That was the entire purpose of the hearing. Obviously he was negligent and now it will go to trial. I expect that we will get more questions answered then.
It seems to me that Murray tried to keep the Propofol a secret. Remember that he disappeared for two days and it was during that time that Sheryl Lee (the nutritionist/NP) came out and revealed that MJ had asked her for Propofol. Until that time no one even looked into it. Of course, Murray had no other choice then to fess up to it, because they would then look into Propofol in toxicology tests.
I agree with what you are saying mjsoul - I was surprised that they actually called so many witnesses. All the small details ie time lines etc., where Murray was, etc. should be kept for trial. A smart lawyer will not let all his surprises out of the bag....and it seems to me the prosecution spilled alot of beans. Now the defence can determined the method in which the prosecution is leading their case and start poking holes in everything. A preliminary hearing should only determine evidence, and in my opinion, the expert opinions should have come from the doctor's and the coroner who oversaw the autopsy, etc. That would be enough for a judge to determine a trial. It seems the kangaroo court likes to deviate from the norm. :)
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Sources connected with the Texas Medical Board and the Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners tell TMZ they are weighing their options regarding the suspension of Murray's medical license.
It would not surprise me if the Texas board lets him keep his license. eye*roll
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So MANY good points in these replies...but I will only address this one right now.
Also, I thank the people for having the introspective to see that my comment was not a slam against Michael Jackson.
hell I have been in love with his voice since
the Jackson5 hit Motown... Needless to say that was a long time ago...when we only had AM radios in our cars....so I am not one of these new fan types..
that just discovered him after he died or when my mother used to listen to him.
Know what I mean Vern?
BTW did anyone read the link I provided?
I think it painted an interesting picture of some of the insane goings on his life.
With that said...
by encino_girl » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:37 am
RunFaYaLife wrote:So is this attack the newbie night?
As you can see I did not say he was broke...I said he was heading in that direction.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke.
Further more he had been in a mental and financial decline for years.
Those are facts and have nothing to do with Dr Murry's "troot lips"
Although, I suspect there was foul play involved...once again for the all
mighty dollar.
That alone would wear a sensitive artist down.
But hey!
Believe what you want to believe I am not here to try and change your mind OR argue with you...but if you follow his own money trail over the last few years it is pretty obvious....especially after the 2005 trial fiasco.
That was the last straw for him mentally....you can see it on his face after he walked out of the trial being found innocent of ALL accounts....and flew off to Bahrain.
He did not care anymore...and I can sympathize with that.
I really believe he has been in court more than any other celebrity.... ever.
Most was on trumped up money grubber's nonsense.
Then there are those people whom one has to wonder if they had his best interest at heart.
and the fact that he was supporting his whole family...to the extent that as
i am sure you have read he would have some of his siblings and father make an appointment to see him [pretty funny of MJ IMO.]
MJ did have a long standing prescription drug problem...which I found to be be very sad...and costly.
In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi) ... gain-22420
With all due respect, I take issue with your post.
Do you honestly believe he looked weary and defeated after the trial because of money issues?
He'd just won the exhaustive fight for his life,for his freedom, for God's sake. He'd just gone through weeks of listening to the prosecution paint him as the most vile & depraved of all humans; one who preys on children for sexual gratification, to the world.
Murder. Rape. Theft. You name it, and the public would've been more forgiving had those been the charges against him, but being accused of pedophilia hangs a stigma over your head that cannot be erased, even if you're acquitted. The weight of an accusation alone has caused mentally strong persons to level a revolver at their temple and pull the trigger.
Yes I do.
As I am sure you know...
he had been down this road in 1993. He went on with his career....
Actually it was during this time that he wrote Stranger In Moscow.
However, as you probably already know....he was a mess over the first accusation- MJ KNEW what this meant to his
career.
The 2005 Trail was the nightmare he did not want to ever live through again.
By this time he had been through it once....rehabed...been sued many times for business related things and as well as plagiarizing which yet another stupid lawsuit but it would be considered "theft" none the less.
However, NOTHING NOTHING could get to him like another accusation like this. It was like the death blow to his reputation and career and he knew it.
Considering what happened to his Invincible album thanks in large to SONY.
Not to mention his physical condition due to some serious injuries and wear and Tear on his body. Let's face Our man put everything he HAD into what he did.
After that crash in Bucharest where the bucket fell 60ft you cannot tell me he did not have some serious back problems and probably other injuries that would and did become chronic....with age.
Then there was his delicate mental state.
He may have tried to hide it [alligator skin] but he was an artist and very sensitive one.
Most dedicated artist are...but that coupled with his perfectionist nature... well there it is.
He wore his feelings on his sleeve...God love him.
It was in inevitable with all that had happened to him up to 2003 when the last sexual molestation allegation surfaced that he would kick up his drug intake.
That is what addicts do...just the facts mam.
It is obvious he has some anxiety issues from all of the benesodapines and antidepressants he was prescribed.
When MJ did something...even drug use he went ALL the way.
By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain...because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.
I think he was disgusted and left the country with his kids in tow. I know I would have been.
He probably managed to cut down on his drug usage some what at some point after he could breathe.
During the time he was on his self imposed isolation which he needed.
The thing is no matter where he went or what he did he could not escape the public eye.
Mental decline? Oh, I beg to differ. Surely, he was depressed, and perhaps he was angry and bitter for a time. Who wouldn't be? Look at how society fractured over the verdict, and how it labeled him either completely innocent or guilty but got away with it. Michael persevered through the mire and muck, and he focused inward, on being a great father to his children, succeeding as is evidenced by the composure of his children, and eventually to making a complete comeback.
He was used and abused by people in whom he put his trust, strangers, and even his family, and not once did he fail to continue to be the epitome of forgiveness. That, my friend, takes a man who's center is peace, and who's mind is strong. A lesser or weaker man would've remained bitter & broken, but Michael didn't.
Mental decline my ass.
Oh, IMO...
Actually I meant to say physical and mental decline.
I've covered most of my thoughts on this already....and yes I agree he focused inward..used and abused etc.
[did you read my link?]
Oh yes he forgave some people however, he did not others to an extent he was bitter and heart broken [who wouldn't be?] but never the less strong
I beg to differ on him wanting to make a complete comeback...especially in the genre of touring. He HATED it and he by now he was physically not able and he knew it. He wanted to make movies and other things.
He was also suffering from Lupus and vitiligo both autoimmune diseases not to mention painful ones at that.
MJ stated himself he could never do 50 concerts he only signed up for 10..then 30.
He also stated that this would kill him and he meant it.
But by then with the help of some not so savory character's he had signed his life away to the devil's. I suspect the mysterious Thome Thome had a big part in that.
CAUGHT between a rock and a hard place...as I stated earlier.
MJ was definitely in financial trouble.
The above are the facts.
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did we ever find out if Murray could go with MJ to london and in which capacity? I've read before that he was not liscenced to practice medicine in England, but what about if your someone's personal doctor, so your not treating anyone else? Or maybe they ( AEG or Michael) were'nt going to declare his presence there as being in the capacity as an actual doctor like maybe he was (to the authorities ) going to be mentioned as companion or what not? I'm sure anyone travelling abroad involved with the tour needed a work permit? I ask because of the amount of propofol the pharmacy says they'd been sending Murray. Now, was this eqal to the amounts murray said he'd been giving MJ in the two months prior to 25 june, or was he stocking it up for the trip to london?? How would they get it into london? I'm thinking anything MJ involved being brought into the country would be severely checked given his history ( as falsely reported by tabloids, not my opinion!)
-
Private Jet?
Michael Jackson's propofol use is discussed here during the History tour.
Dr Neil Ratner (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=12800)
-
That comment I just read sounded like a media article about his life,and one that is bias,incorrect and talks in a way that the person who wrote it has some idea of the man behind the sunglasses,which I'm sorry I don't think anyone on this earth did apart from him.
so I am not one of these new fan types..that just discovered him after he died
After he died?
By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain...because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.
How on earth could you possibly know that?That is an outrageous accusation/statement to make.
He looked tired,and pissed off and really quite blank.His expression didn't even change when they said not guilty.Stress can have devastating effects on a persons mental health and wear the body down doesn't mean they are a drug addict.
I'll be honest,your whole post offended me.
and no it's not because I am saying he had no drug problem,he clearly had one in the 90's but tbh,past that no one knows,it is mere speculation MOSTLY media based.Personally,needing something to help you sleep and injecting/popping pills everyday are two very different things.
I wouldn't believe one word from anyone in his 'inner circle' either,they drained him for personal gain year after year.They let him carry on taking paths that were really not the right ones,making bad decisions etc(when stopping him from doing exactly that is was what they were paid to do) because saying yes got them what they wanted in the end.
A statement from a friend of mine who knows Michael quite well
"it's sad,the people around him are leeches,I overheard things I won't ever repeat but believe me,they did not have his best interests at heart"
Michael trusted my friend with his life,I trust him with mine,he was disgusted in what he saw and heard and I think upset him quite a lot.
His children changed his life,they saved him and IMO I don't believe he would ever risk losing them,risk not seeing them grow up and let them down by not being the best father he could be because of drugs.
Do you think they wouldn't wonder why their daddy couldn't get out of bed or play with them?but he did....he did play with them,and eat 2meals a day with them,ate organic healthy food.
And like I have said in a previous comment,I do not see him leaving pills and viles lying around and being reckless when he had them in the house with him.
I'm angry.I need a cup of tea.
-
Private Jet?
Michael Jackson's propofol use is discussed here during the History tour.
Dr Neil Ratner (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=12800)
That is misleading. That is a thread i started... and it discussed MJs possible Propofol use and the reasons why Ratner was there.
There is some suggestion MJ used Propofol, but Ratner does not confirm it, but does admit to travelling with him on tour.
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So MANY good points in these replies...but I will only address this one right now.
Also, I thank the people for having the introspective to see that my comment was not a slam against Michael Jackson.
hell I have been in love with his voice since
the Jackson5 hit Motown... Needless to say that was a long time ago...when we only had AM radios in our cars....so I am not one of these new fan types..
that just discovered him after he died or when my mother used to listen to him.
Begging your pardon then. I didn't realize being an 'old' fan gave you an inside track to the man's personal and private life, as well as his mind.
Know what I mean Vern?
The intelligence that drips from that line is just overwhelming. /sarc
Well,
BTW did anyone read the link I provided?
I think it painted an interesting picture of some of the insane goings on his life.
Read it. Can you verify its veracity?
With that said...
Oh, please do continue.
by encino_girl » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:37 am
RunFaYaLife wrote:So is this attack the newbie night?
As you can see I did not say he was broke...I said he was heading in that direction.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke.
Further more he had been in a mental and financial decline for years.
Those are facts and have nothing to do with Dr Murry's "troot lips"
Although, I suspect there was foul play involved...once again for the all
mighty dollar.
That alone would wear a sensitive artist down.
But hey!
Believe what you want to believe I am not here to try and change your mind OR argue with you...but if you follow his own money trail over the last few years it is pretty obvious....especially after the 2005 trial fiasco.
That was the last straw for him mentally....you can see it on his face after he walked out of the trial being found innocent of ALL accounts....and flew off to Bahrain.
He did not care anymore...and I can sympathize with that.
I really believe he has been in court more than any other celebrity.... ever.
Most was on trumped up money grubber's nonsense.
Then there are those people whom one has to wonder if they had his best interest at heart.
and the fact that he was supporting his whole family...to the extent that as
i am sure you have read he would have some of his siblings and father make an appointment to see him [pretty funny of MJ IMO.]
MJ did have a long standing prescription drug problem...which I found to be be very sad...and costly.
In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi) ... gain-22420
With all due respect, I take issue with your post.
Do you honestly believe he looked weary and defeated after the trial because of money issues?
He'd just won the exhaustive fight for his life,for his freedom, for God's sake. He'd just gone through weeks of listening to the prosecution paint him as the most vile & depraved of all humans; one who preys on children for sexual gratification, to the world.
Murder. Rape. Theft. You name it, and the public would've been more forgiving had those been the charges against him, but being accused of pedophilia hangs a stigma over your head that cannot be erased, even if you're acquitted. The weight of an accusation alone has caused mentally strong persons to level a revolver at their temple and pull the trigger.
Yes I do.
You do what??
As I am sure you know...
he had been down this road in 1993. He went on with his career....
Actually it was during this time that he wrote Stranger In Moscow.
Really?? You're kidding me.
However, as you probably already know....he was a mess over the first accusation- MJ KNEW what this meant to his
career.
The 2005 Trail was the nightmare he did not want to ever live through again.
I'm gasping at your wealth of knowledge.
By this time he had been through it once....rehabed...been sued many times for business related things and as well as plagiarizing which yet another stupid lawsuit but it would be considered "theft" none the less.
However, NOTHING NOTHING could get to him like another accusation like this. It was like the death blow to his reputation and career and he knew it.
Considering what happened to his Invincible album thanks in large to SONY.
Not to mention his physical condition due to some serious injuries and wear and Tear on his body. Let's face Our man put everything he HAD into what he did.
After that crash in Bucharest where the bucket fell 60ft you cannot tell me he did not have some serious back problems and probably other injuries that would and did become chronic....with age.
Then there was his delicate mental state.
He may have tried to hide it [alligator skin] but he was an artist and very sensitive one.
Most dedicated artist are...but that coupled with his perfectionist nature... well there it is.
He wore his feelings on his sleeve...God love him.
It was in inevitable with all that had happened to him up to 2003 when the last sexual molestation allegation surfaced that he would kick up his drug intake.
That is what addicts do...just the facts mam.
Damn! I do believe Barney Fife has it all figured out.
It is obvious he has some anxiety issues from all of the benesodapines and antidepressants he was prescribed.
When MJ did something...even drug use he went ALL the way.
By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain...because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.
I think he was disgusted and left the country with his kids in tow. I know I would have been.
He probably managed to cut down on his drug usage some what at some point after he could breathe.
During the time he was on his self imposed isolation which he needed.
The thing is no matter where he went or what he did he could not escape the public eye.
Mental decline? Oh, I beg to differ. Surely, he was depressed, and perhaps he was angry and bitter for a time. Who wouldn't be? Look at how society fractured over the verdict, and how it labeled him either completely innocent or guilty but got away with it. Michael persevered through the mire and muck, and he focused inward, on being a great father to his children, succeeding as is evidenced by the composure of his children, and eventually to making a complete comeback.
He was used and abused by people in whom he put his trust, strangers, and even his family, and not once did he fail to continue to be the epitome of forgiveness. That, my friend, takes a man who's center is peace, and who's mind is strong. A lesser or weaker man would've remained bitter & broken, but Michael didn't.
Mental decline my ass.
Oh, IMO...
Actually I meant to say physical and mental decline.
I've covered most of my thoughts on this already....and yes I agree he focused inward..used and abused etc.
[did you read my link?]
Oh yes he forgave some people however, he did not others to an extent he was bitter and heart broken [who wouldn't be?] but never the less strong
I beg to differ on him wanting to make a complete comeback...especially in the genre of touring. He HATED it and he by now he was physically not able and he knew it. He wanted to make movies and other things.
He was also suffering from Lupus and vitiligo both autoimmune diseases not to mention painful ones at that.
MJ stated himself he could never do 50 concerts he only signed up for 10..then 30.
He also stated that this would kill him and he meant it.
But by then with the help of some not so savory character's he had signed his life away to the devil's. I suspect the mysterious Thome Thome had a big part in that.
CAUGHT between a rock and a hard place...as I stated earlier.
MJ was definitely in financial trouble.
The above are the facts.
Well my dear Watsons, "fan since he was little" Sherlock here has figured it all out, and wrapped it up in a big post for us all. We can turn the lights off and all of us can go home.
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That comment I just read sounded like a media article about his life,and one that is bias,incorrect and talks in a way that the person who wrote it has some idea of the man behind the sunglasses,which I'm sorry I don't think anyone on this earth did apart from him.
so I am not one of these new fan types..that just discovered him after he died
After he died?
By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain...because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.
How on earth could you possibly know that?That is an outrageous accusation/statement to make.
He looked tired,and pissed off and really quite blank.His expression didn't even change when they said not guilty.Stress can have devastating effects on a persons mental health and wear the body down doesn't mean they are a drug addict.
I'll be honest,your whole post offended me.
and no it's not because I am saying he had no drug problem,he clearly had one in the 90's but tbh,past that no one knows,it is mere speculation MOSTLY media based.Personally,needing something to help you sleep and injecting/popping pills everyday are two very different things.
I wouldn't believe one word from anyone in his 'inner circle' either,they drained him for personal gain year after year.They let him carry on taking paths that were really not the right ones,making bad decisions etc(when stopping him from doing exactly that is was what they were paid to do) because saying yes got them what they wanted in the end.
A statement from a friend of mine who knows Michael quite well
"it's sad,the people around him are leeches,I overheard things I won't ever repeat but believe me,they did not have his best interests at heart"
Michael trusted my friend with his life,I trust him with mine,he was disgusted in what he saw and heard and I think upset him quite a lot.
His children changed his life,they saved him and IMO I don't believe he would ever risk losing them,risk not seeing them grow up and let them down by not being the best father he could be because of drugs.
Do you think they wouldn't wonder why their daddy couldn't get out of bed or play with them?but he did....he did play with them,and eat 2meals a day with them,ate organic healthy food.
And like I have said in a previous comment,I do not see him leaving pills and viles lying around and being reckless when he had them in the house with him.
I'm angry.I need a cup of tea.
Sin, come on now. This poster's been a fan of Michael foreeevvvvveerrrr. Clearly, he/she knows it all. /sarc
Pass the tea girl!
-
I am still here because I am hoping to be proved wrong. I am about 99% sure that Mike is gone but even though I still have that 1% hope left it is still hope after all and so I will continue on coming here...There might be something that comes up that we have missed that points to an obvious hoax who knows. I simply cannot understand why IF Michael hoaxed his death that he would choose to go out in such a horrible and controversial way?
Why not a simple heart attack in his sleep?? That would have made sense too given the amount of stress he had been under these past few years. But now we have a big court case and a doctor involved. Surely there are other ways to die that would have caused less fuss? This has always been the one thing that I could never reconcile in my mind. I did think that Michael was helping the authorities bring down shady over prescribing doctors but now I am not even sure of that.
IF this is a hoax then it is the most realistic hoax that I have ever heard of. I will admit that some things are just crazy..It's crazy that a doctor of medicine could be just so darn right stupid for one...Words fail me..But who knows anymore?
If Michael wanted to hoax his death just to hide out, he would have definitely chosen a simple way like a heart attack or an accident etc. Why would he involve an innocent person and show him like he is guilty? This is the proof that he didn't do the hoax to run away and hide out but he did it with very serious purposes and he will come back (BAM) sooner or later to accomplish the mission.
I know that some believers started to lose hope with the upcoming trial of Murray. But actually all they need to remember is the numerology of the hoax. I don't get why some find it so complicated because it definitely is not. And it is the ultimate proof of this hoax. If you still think that we only have imaginary speculations, I would offer you to check out the numerology one more time. 12:21 is just one of them. What could be the possibility of a coincidence for Murray to call 911 at 12:21 exactly? And again 2 hours and 5 minutes later the "death" time comes. 2+5=7. And how can it be a coincidence to make 77 days from the “death” on June 25 to 9-9-09; and 7 days from the “burial” to 9-9-09? Check out the memorial and funeral dates. 7/7/9 and 9/3/9. And now we have a trial on the same day like Michael’s which is Jan 25th. The dates speak at high volumes about the hoax. All we need to do is to remember the dates and time! REMEMBER THE TIME my friends! That's what we need to do. There is no need to lose hope. Trust the man with the plan. Give him all your LOVE, support, loyalty, endurance, courage, strength and patience...Believe him and put your trust in him.
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[center:a573n335](http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pEtsaVP4YiM/S_M7jaOUMpI/AAAAAAAAL0w/yowhTDC9orY/s512/mj%20pic%20%281999%29.jpg)[/center:a573n335]
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It's what I call a paradox. Both sides are true at the same time. That calls for thinking outside the box, a step back further to see the big picture. That's why hoaxers and MJ's dead sides are so entrenched. Oh dear, what a dilemna!! How I love MJ!! He is beyond mastermind! Some posters here are so good at providing such researched details and conclusions, which I'm so thankful for and have great respect for, great for people like me to simply read and add to mental files. Which side will win, and end up being proven true? Ah, that is the question. My bets on the hoax because, besides knowing all the dirty facts of what went on with the allegations and drugs, I listen to his music, his videos, his interviews, studied everyone's contributions on the 'strange' goings on with the MJ "death", studied TS's words, and lastly listen to my heart. I don't know how he did it, and a good magician doesn't tell how he performed the trick, but he defied death. As BACK would say, "Keep watching!"
I actually appreciate new people here coming hard with the "facts", because it causes us all to keep our thinking caps on. Otherwise we would be too relaxed just sitting watching the show, eating popcorn!
RunFaYaLife
Know what I mean Vern?
How I love and miss Jim Varney!
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Re: Official General Prelim Discussion thread
by RunFaYaLife » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:25 am
So MANY good points in these replies...but I will only address this one right now.
Also, I thank the people for having the introspective to see that my comment was not a slam against Michael Jackson.
hell I have been in love with his voice since
the Jackson5 hit Motown... Needless to say that was a long time ago...when we only had AM radios in our cars....so I am not one of these new fan types..
that just discovered him after he died or when my mother used to listen to him.
Know what I mean Vern?
BTW did anyone read the link I provided?
I think it painted an interesting picture of some of the insane goings on his life.
With that said...
by encino_girl » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:37 am
RunFaYaLife wrote:So is this attack the newbie night?
As you can see I did not say he was broke...I said he was heading in that direction.
On the other hand there is this...if he did hoax his own death...he certainly had enough reasons to do it....he was on a fast train to broke.
Further more he had been in a mental and financial decline for years.
Those are facts and have nothing to do with Dr Murry's "troot lips"
Although, I suspect there was foul play involved...once again for the all
mighty dollar.
That alone would wear a sensitive artist down.
But hey!
Believe what you want to believe I am not here to try and change your mind OR argue with you...but if you follow his own money trail over the last few years it is pretty obvious....especially after the 2005 trial fiasco.
That was the last straw for him mentally....you can see it on his face after he walked out of the trial being found innocent of ALL accounts....and flew off to Bahrain.
He did not care anymore...and I can sympathize with that.
I really believe he has been in court more than any other celebrity.... ever.
Most was on trumped up money grubber's nonsense.
Then there are those people whom one has to wonder if they had his best interest at heart.
and the fact that he was supporting his whole family...to the extent that as
i am sure you have read he would have some of his siblings and father make an appointment to see him [pretty funny of MJ IMO.]
MJ did have a long standing prescription drug problem...which I found to be be very sad...and costly.
In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi) ... gain-22420
With all due respect, I take issue with your post.
Do you honestly believe he looked weary and defeated after the trial because of money issues?
He'd just won the exhaustive fight for his life,for his freedom, for God's sake. He'd just gone through weeks of listening to the prosecution paint him as the most vile & depraved of all humans; one who preys on children for sexual gratification, to the world.
Murder. Rape. Theft. You name it, and the public would've been more forgiving had those been the charges against him, but being accused of pedophilia hangs a stigma over your head that cannot be erased, even if you're acquitted. The weight of an accusation alone has caused mentally strong persons to level a revolver at their temple and pull the trigger.
Yes I do.
As I am sure you know...
he had been down this road in 1993. He went on with his career....
Actually it was during this time that he wrote Stranger In Moscow.
However, as you probably already know....he was a mess over the first accusation- MJ KNEW what this meant to his
career.
The 2005 Trail was the nightmare he did not want to ever live through again.
By this time he had been through it once....rehabed...been sued many times for business related things and as well as plagiarizing which yet another stupid lawsuit but it would be considered "theft" none the less.
However, NOTHING NOTHING could get to him like another accusation like this. It was like the death blow to his reputation and career and he knew it.
Considering what happened to his Invincible album thanks in large to SONY.
Not to mention his physical condition due to some serious injuries and wear and Tear on his body. Let's face Our man put everything he HAD into what he did.
After that crash in Bucharest where the bucket fell 60ft you cannot tell me he did not have some serious back problems and probably other injuries that would and did become chronic....with age.
Then there was his delicate mental state.
He may have tried to hide it [alligator skin] but he was an artist and very sensitive one.
Most dedicated artist are...but that coupled with his perfectionist nature... well there it is.
He wore his feelings on his sleeve...God love him.
It was in inevitable with all that had happened to him up to 2003 when the last sexual molestation allegation surfaced that he would kick up his drug intake.
That is what addicts do...just the facts mam.
It is obvious he has some anxiety issues from all of the benesodapines and antidepressants he was prescribed.
When MJ did something...even drug use he went ALL the way.
By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain.
..because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.
I think he was disgusted and left the country with his kids in tow. I know I would have been.
He probably managed to cut down on his drug usage some what at some point after he could breathe.
During the time he was on his self imposed isolation which he needed.
The thing is no matter where he went or what he did he could not escape the public eye.
Mental decline? Oh, I beg to differ. Surely, he was depressed, and perhaps he was angry and bitter for a time. Who wouldn't be? Look at how society fractured over the verdict, and how it labeled him either completely innocent or guilty but got away with it.
Michael persevered through the mire and muck, and he focused inward, on being a great father to his children, succeeding as is evidenced by the composure of his children, and eventually to making a complete comeback.
He was used and abused by people in whom he put his trust, strangers, and even his family, and not once did he fail to continue to be the epitome of forgiveness. That, my friend, takes a man who's center is peace, and who's mind is strong. A lesser or weaker man would've remained bitter & broken, but Michael didn't.
Mental decline my ass.
Oh, IMO...
by RunFaYaLife
Actually I meant to say physical and mental decline.
I've covered most of my thoughts on this already....and yes I agree he focused inward..used and abused etc.
[did you read my link?]
Oh yes he forgave some people however, he did not others to an extent he was bitter and heart broken [who wouldn't be?] but never the less strong
I beg to differ on him wanting to make a complete comeback...especially in the genre of touring. He HATED it and he by now he was physically not able and he knew it. He wanted to make movies and other things.
He was also suffering from Lupus and vitiligo both autoimmune diseases not to mention painful ones at that.
MJ stated himself he could never do 50 concerts he only signed up for 10..then 30.
He also stated that this would kill him and he meant it.
But by then with the help of some not so savory character's he had signed his life away to the devil's. I suspect the mysterious Thome Thome had a big part in that.
CAUGHT between a rock and a hard place...as I stated earlier.
MJ was definitely in financial trouble.
The above are the facts.
Well, RunFaYaLife , now here you are, one poster, that is not afraid to really tell it like it is.
Ditto for you for presenting the “facts” about our beloved MJ and his life's up and downs and ordeals.
We love Michael , not because he was perfect in every thing in life, but because we can feel him with our hearts.
I am also a long time fan of MJ..going to J5 days, and I can understand perfectly what you are talking about here.
There are some fans , that have just jumped on the MJ bandwagon after his ‘death” no less, and most of them,it seems to me anyway, don’t really seem to know what they are talking about in regards to Michael and his whole career.
Rather, at times, it seems they are absolutely talking about another celebrity of their own fantasy, rather than Mike.
The Mike, his long adoring fans have known , with his perfect side and his glaringly weak side too..
Thanks for posting this , I really enjoyed reading your post. :)
Peace.
-
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm counting the days. I know with everything that has been revealed Michael Jackson is alive. I just hope and pray he does come back. When he does return, I hope everyone will be as loyal to him then as they are now.....I have always been a believer when it come to Michael. He is love and goodness. We have to follow him when he does return. He is the road to righteousness. The Army of Love wait for his return.
-
Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Think about it...for a moment before you jump on me,what OFFICIAL products,events,anything that is MJ related have you seen with RIP on?Or that suggests he is dead?
You will be hard pushed to find anything officially licensed that has in loving memory on or RIP.They don't exist.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
I can't tell you how I know or why because..well I just can't(sorry) but there has not been one OFFICIAL/endorsed tribute show for Michael-you know the king of pop,the man who changed music,made MTV,inspired almost every living artist today....why?because they can't hold an event that people would go to based on it being for his 'memory' when he is not gone.There would be uproar and all hell would break loose.Refunds right and left.
Every show that has been 'planned' has been cancelled and not gone ahead.This is why.
First thing that should have happened is a tribute concert featuring global artists who owe him for his inspiration and so on...but nope....and No,Jermaine's Vegas show doesn't count because it was not promoted as a MJ tribute show or say RIP or in memory of.. it was Jermaine singing songs he wrote for J5 and doing a few of Michael's which could not be put onto DVD or be recorded/released.So nothing illegal went on there.People paid to see Jermaine.
Anything out there atm,is promoting his legacy,which he would have anyway dead or alive.It is his,regardless of him breathing or not.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
AMAZING POST Sinderella. Thank you so much for explaining the legal side of the hoax and thank you for this thread also. :)
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AMAZING POST Sinderella. Thank you so much for explaining the legal side of the hoax and thank you for this thread also. :)
You are so very welcome,thank you for taking the time to read it =] xo
-
Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Wrong sentence to the core, Sinderella.
I have explained several times about life insurance policy. This is huge wrong statement you made.
Sony, AEG, Estate, no one can cash life insurance policy but beneficiary. Unless you mean different insurance.I will explain again.
see viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687)
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I want to comment on the legal implications one could face for faking their own death.
Is it a crime? What are the possible legal issues involved?
Unless you're pretending to be dead in order to play a practical joke on someone (in this case, forget legalities; you need a shrink), there can be serious legal consequences.
Sin has made excellent points; however, even if you do NOT benefit financially from faking your death, such an act can STILL lead you into hot legal waters as it can be seen as a civil wrongdoing. IOW, it is an intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress. You could be held liable for pain and suffering damages and medical (ie. counseling) costs.
As for monetary benefits, if you're found to be alive, you'd be held responsible for the costs of any investigations into the 'death', any proceedings resulting from the investigation, etc. (willful misuse of public resources). It is still fraud if your willful actions cost others money. If your heirs or your estate benefits from your faked death (even unknowingly), they are legal jeopardy as well. If your action placed an undue burden on the state or the executor of your estate, you are civilly liable.
If you assume a new identity, you are in essence, supplying false information to various government agencies (ie. SSA, driver's license agency, etc..). Just the filing of the false death certificate constitutes perjury, which is a criminal offense.
You may voluntarily walk away from your employment, family, and friends. People do it everyday. Generally, they are located by employment/tax records, and so forth.
Faking your death can only be done legally if law enforcement is involved.
-
I want to comment on the legal implications one could face for faking their own death.
Is it a crime? What are the possible legal issues involved?
Unless you're pretending to be dead in order to play a practical joke on someone (in this case, forget legalities; you need a shrink), there can be serious legal consequences.
Sin has made excellent points; however, even if you do NOT benefit financially from faking your death, such an act can STILL lead you into hot legal waters as it can be seen as a civil wrongdoing. IOW, it is an intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress. You could be held liable for pain and suffering damages and medical (ie. counseling) costs.
As for monetary benefits, if you're found to be alive, you'd be held responsible for the costs of any investigations into the 'death', any proceedings resulting from the investigation, etc. (willful misuse of public resources). It is still fraud if your willful actions cost others money. If your heirs or your estate benefits from your faked death (even unknowingly), they are legal jeopardy as well. If your action placed an undue burden on the state or the executor of your estate, you are civilly liable.
If you assume a new identity, you are in essence, supplying false information to various government agencies (ie. SSA, driver's license agency, etc..). Just the filing of the false death certificate constitutes perjury, which is a criminal offense.
You may voluntarily walk away from your employment, family, and friends. People do it everyday. Generally, they are located by employment/tax records, and so forth.
Faking your death can only be done legally if law enforcement is involved.
The part in bold is something I have been thinking for a while now. I honestly believe that A LOT of people would try to sue Michael for the emotional stress his death caused them if he is found to be alive. People may even come together and form a class action law suit. Unless the Federal Government is involved, I seriously don't think Michael will ever come back. Aside from all of the haters, who would hate him even more, there would be a lot of new haters (even some of his fans). Many of these people would try to sue him. It would be a complete mess. Not to mention the death threats that he would receive. He was already receiving death threats and threats of kidnapping his kids before this. Now people would have another reason to threaten him. No, if the Feds aren't involved, I don't expect a comeback. It would be far too risky for Michael and his family.
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I want to comment on the legal implications one could face for faking their own death.
Is it a crime? What are the possible legal issues involved?
Unless you're pretending to be dead in order to play a practical joke on someone (in this case, forget legalities; you need a shrink), there can be serious legal consequences.
Sin has made excellent points; however, even if you do NOT benefit financially from faking your death, such an act can STILL lead you into hot legal waters as it can be seen as a civil wrongdoing. IOW, it is an intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress. You could be held liable for pain and suffering damages and medical (ie. counseling) costs.
As for monetary benefits, if you're found to be alive, you'd be held responsible for the costs of any investigations into the 'death', any proceedings resulting from the investigation, etc. (willful misuse of public resources). It is still fraud if your willful actions cost others money. If your heirs or your estate benefits from your faked death (even unknowingly), they are legal jeopardy as well. If your action placed an undue burden on the state or the executor of your estate, you are civilly liable.
If you assume a new identity, you are in essence, supplying false information to various government agencies (ie. SSA, driver's license agency, etc..). Just the filing of the false death certificate constitutes perjury, which is a criminal offense.
You may voluntarily walk away from your employment, family, and friends. People do it everyday. Generally, they are located by employment/tax records, and so forth.
Faking your death can only be done legally if law enforcement is involved.
Reminds me of the BEE GEEs song I started a joke that had the whole world crying.
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Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Wrong sentence to the core, Sinderella.
I have explained several times about life insurance policy. This is huge wrong statement you made.
Sony, AEG, Estate, no one can cash life insurance policy but beneficiary. Unless you mean different insurance.I will explain again.
see viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687)
Actually, one can cash out a life insurance policy prior to death. They would only receive the value of the premiums they've paid, along with any maturity of cash benefits (if any). If Sony or AEG, and/or any of its subsidiaries or assigned were the policy owners they were within their legal rights to cash out the policy prior to his 'death'.
You need to differentiate between the policy owner and the beneficiary and their respective rights and roles as they pertain to life insurance.
Policy owner - one who purchases the policy on himself or another from an insurer.
Beneficiary - one who benefits financially from the occurrence of insured risk.
You cash out a policy prior to death. (Policy owner)
You cash in a policy upon occurrence of death. (Beneficiary)
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I believe with every fiber of my being Michael had government assistance in faking his death. He wouldn't do this as a joke, as a means of temporarily escaping, nor would he be so reckless business wise.
IMO
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Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Wrong sentence to the core, Sinderella.
I have explained several times about life insurance policy. This is huge wrong statement you made.
Sony, AEG, Estate, no one can cash life insurance policy but beneficiary. Unless you mean different insurance.I will explain again.
see viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687)
Actually, one can cash out a life insurance policy prior to death. They would only receive the value of the premiums they've paid, along with any maturity of cash benefits (if any). If Sony or AEG, and/or any of its subsidiaries or assigned were the policy owners they were within their legal rights to cash out the policy prior to his 'death'.
You need to differentiate between the policy owner and the beneficiary.
Policy owner - one who purchases the policy on himself or another from an insurer.
Beneficiary - one who benefits financially from the occurrence of insured risk.
You cash out a policy prior to death.
You cash in a policy upon occurrence of death.
Excuse me, but I am proficient person in the field we are talking about . The policyholder can cash his policy money, not Michael's policy.
The other thing you should pay attention on when I say IT DEPENDS ON WHAT TYPE OF POLICY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.I see there is a confusion about insurance policy wrongly called "life insurance", whereas initially article was about AEG cashing policy that never happened. Again, before concert there is a type of policy AEG purchased called special event or similar that would cover ACCIDENTAL DEATH OF THE PRINCIPAL, MICHAEL, therefore they called life insurance. But in nature it is NOT a common life insurance policy. The only money AEG could get from that policy if there would have been EVENT CANCELLATION clause. Prior to death policy, if it is Michael as a named insured, no one else can cash but himself before death. I doubt Michael had that kind of policy, AEG can't cash MJ's policy money notbefore nor after his death. Sorry, I am going to stop here, can't explain the whole insurance industry here.
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Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Wrong sentence to the core, Sinderella.
I have explained several times about life insurance policy. This is huge wrong statement you made.
Sony, AEG, Estate, no one can cash life insurance policy but beneficiary. Unless you mean different insurance.I will explain again.
see viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687)
Actually, one can cash out a life insurance policy prior to death. They would only receive the value of the premiums they've paid, along with any maturity of cash benefits (if any). If Sony or AEG, and/or any of its subsidiaries or assigned were the policy owners they were within their legal rights to cash out the policy prior to his 'death'.
You need to differentiate between the policy owner and the beneficiary.
Policy owner - one who purchases the policy on himself or another from an insurer.
Beneficiary - one who benefits financially from the occurrence of insured risk.
You cash out a policy prior to death.
You cash in a policy upon occurrence of death.
Excuse me, but I am proficient person in the field we are talking about . The policyholder can cash his policy money, not Michael's policy.
The other thing you should pay attention on when I say IT DEPENDS ON WHAT TYPE OF POLICY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.I see there is a confusion about insurance policy wrongly called "life insurance", whereas initially article was about AEG cashing policy that never happened. Again, before concert there is a type of policy AEG purchased called special event or similar that would cover ACCIDENTAL DEATH OF THE PRINCIPAL, MICHAEL, therefore they called life insurance. But in nature it is NOT a common life insurance policy. The only money AEG could get from that policy if there would have been EVENT CANCELLATION clause. Prior to death policy, if it is Michael as a named insured, no one else can cash but himself before death. I doubt Michael had that kind of policy, AEG can't cash MJ's policy money notbefore nor after his death. Sorry, I am going to stop here, can't explain the whole insurance industry here.
You might need a refresher course.
-
I want to comment on the legal implications one could face for faking their own death.
Is it a crime? What are the possible legal issues involved?
Unless you're pretending to be dead in order to play a practical joke on someone (in this case, forget legalities; you need a shrink), there can be serious legal consequences.
Sin has made excellent points; however, even if you do NOT benefit financially from faking your death, such an act can STILL lead you into hot legal waters as it can be seen as a civil wrongdoing. IOW, it is an intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress. You could be held liable for pain and suffering damages and medical (ie. counseling) costs.
As for monetary benefits, if you're found to be alive, you'd be held responsible for the costs of any investigations into the 'death', any proceedings resulting from the investigation, etc. (willful misuse of public resources). It is still fraud if your willful actions cost others money. If your heirs or your estate benefits from your faked death (even unknowingly), they are legal jeopardy as well. If your action placed an undue burden on the state or the executor of your estate, you are civilly liable.
If you assume a new identity, you are in essence, supplying false information to various government agencies (ie. SSA, driver's license agency, etc..). Just the filing of the false death certificate constitutes perjury, which is a criminal offense.
You may voluntarily walk away from your employment, family, and friends. People do it everyday. Generally, they are located by employment/tax records, and so forth.
Faking your death can only be done legally if law enforcement is involved.
The part in bold is something I have been thinking for a while now. I honestly believe that A LOT of people would try to sue Michael for the emotional stress his death caused them if he is found to be alive. People may even come together and form a class action law suit. Unless the Federal Government is involved, I seriously don't think Michael will ever come back. Aside from all of the haters, who would hate him even more, there would be a lot of new haters (even some of his fans). Many of these people would try to sue him. It would be a complete mess. Not to mention the death threats that he would receive. He was already receiving death threats and threats of kidnapping his kids before this. Now people would have another reason to threaten him. No, if the Feds aren't involved, I don't expect a comeback. It would be far too risky for Michael and his family.
I would expect nothing less than a class action lawsuit from his so called admirers. People like Karen Faye, Kai Chase, and so on, would lead the lot of them straight to the courthouse. They loved him that much. /sarc
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Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)
Wrong sentence to the core, Sinderella.
I have explained several times about life insurance policy. This is huge wrong statement you made.
Sony, AEG, Estate, no one can cash life insurance policy but beneficiary. Unless you mean different insurance.I will explain again.
see viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687)
Actually, one can cash out a life insurance policy prior to death. They would only receive the value of the premiums they've paid, along with any maturity of cash benefits (if any). If Sony or AEG, and/or any of its subsidiaries or assigned were the policy owners they were within their legal rights to cash out the policy prior to his 'death'.
You need to differentiate between the policy owner and the beneficiary.
Policy owner - one who purchases the policy on himself or another from an insurer.
Beneficiary - one who benefits financially from the occurrence of insured risk.
You cash out a policy prior to death.
You cash in a policy upon occurrence of death.
Excuse me, but I am proficient person in the field we are talking about . The policyholder can cash his policy money, not Michael's policy.
The other thing you should pay attention on when I say IT DEPENDS ON WHAT TYPE OF POLICY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.I see there is a confusion about insurance policy wrongly called "life insurance", whereas initially article was about AEG cashing policy that never happened. Again, before concert there is a type of policy AEG purchased called special event or similar that would cover ACCIDENTAL DEATH OF THE PRINCIPAL, MICHAEL, therefore they called life insurance. But in nature it is NOT a common life insurance policy. The only money AEG could get from that policy if there would have been EVENT CANCELLATION clause. Prior to death policy, if it is Michael as a named insured, no one else can cash but himself before death. I doubt Michael had that kind of policy, AEG can't cash MJ's policy money notbefore nor after his death. Sorry, I am going to stop here, can't explain the whole insurance industry here.
You might need a refresher course.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Michael was cloned. The Michael on the bed, on the floor, on the coroners table or tables were not the actual Michael.
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The part in bold is something I have been thinking for a while now. I honestly believe that A LOT of people would try to sue Michael for the emotional stress his death caused them if he is found to be alive. People may even come together and form a class action law suit. Unless the Federal Government is involved, I seriously don't think Michael will ever come back. Aside from all of the haters, who would hate him even more, there would be a lot of new haters (even some of his fans). Many of these people would try to sue him. It would be a complete mess. Not to mention the death threats that he would receive. He was already receiving death threats and threats of kidnapping his kids before this. Now people would have another reason to threaten him. No, if the Feds aren't involved, I don't expect a comeback. It would be far too risky for Michael and his family.
I think you make a very good point. Although from looking at old clips of him with fans, looks like many of them could already have sued him for emotional stress. The reasons you gave are an ordinary person's thinking about the logistics of a return. MJ is not an ordinary person, and has already been through the mill. He is no fool, and he has friends in high places. He still has that one dream, and he wants his life to be "The greatest show on earth". He's not done yet.
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DancingTheDream » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:35 pm
RunFaYaLife wrote:Private Jet?
Michael Jackson's propofol use is discussed here during the History tour.
Dr Neil Ratner
That is misleading. That is a thread i started... and it discussed MJs possible Propofol use and the reasons why Ratner was there.
There is some suggestion MJ used Propofol, but Ratner does not confirm it, but does admit to travelling with him on tour.
Whatever DTD...
If I had not of posted the link to your story....and posted one about the same thing off of the 'net then someone would have come along and linked to your link here and told me "that has been discussed here."
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm counting the days. I know with everything that has been revealed Michael Jackson is alive. I just hope and pray he does come back. When he does return, I hope everyone will be as loyal to him then as they are now.....I have always been a believer when it come to Michael. He is love and goodness. We have to follow him when he does return. He is the road to righteousness. The Army of Love wait for his return.
Welcome ladytmurphy, and I 100% agree with you!
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Sinderella
By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain...because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.
How on earth could you possibly know that?That is an outrageous accusation/statement to make.
It is not out outrageous accusation or statement for that matter....it is called common sense.
As far as you saying my comment was biased and something about acting like
"I knew him personally"...I consider that pretty outrageous....
as well as contradictory to what you stated later in your post
A statement from a friend of mine who knows Michael quite well
"it's sad,the people around him are leeches,I overheard things I won't ever repeat but believe me,they did not have his best interests at heart"
Your trusted friend must like to talk because I have read and heard that comment before.
SOooOooo rather than find your whole post "offensive" I found it "quite amusing."
Since I am new here...from the looks of things...it appears you and encino_girl are posting buds....and encino_girl is the resident smart ass.
If that is the case well 2 SNAPS for both of you!....You go Gurls! *sarcasm*
However....
I have zero intentions of playing into your games...
and will continue to state what I have to say in the manner I see fit.
So put your big gurl panties on and both of you suck it up and TRY to be civil about it. K
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Your trusted friend must like to talk because I have read and heard that comment before.SOooOooo rather than find your whole post "offensive" I found it "quite amusing."
Since I am new here...from the looks of things...it appears you and encino_girl are posting buds....and encino_girl is the resident smart ass.
If that is the case well 2 SNAPS for both of you!....You go Gurls! *sarcasm*
However....
I have zero intentions of playing into your games...
and will continue to state what I have to say in the manner I see fit.
So put your big gurl panties on and both of you suck it up and TRY to be civil about it. K
For someone who has been a fan since the J5 days,you are awfully childish.
How dare you comment on my friend,there are people on here-you not being one of them-who know exactly who I am talking about.You don't know who you're even talking to now,so what gives you the right to question what a friend of mine has to say?
I honestly couldn't care less if you have read it elsewhere,that whole quote is common knowledge,everyone knows they are leeches,but he happened to witness it first hand.
So that to you is amusing?Sorry,but I fail to see the humour there.
This is the first thread Encino_girl and I have ever posted in together.If your conclusion is 'posting buds' because we share the same opinions then that's quite sad.
I think you will find I started this thread your posting in,for people to DISCUSS the trial and anything that surrounds it,to ask questions,get answers and support each other,again how dare you accuse me or summerize my post back to you as'playing games' seriously,grow up.You posted,you got my reply.It offended me.
Don't post if you don't like being replied to or have some problem with people challenging your opinions.That is what the forum is here for.
Saying that you have been a fan for such a long time does not mean you know everything or that it is common knowledge.Common knowledge is a well known fact and if you have something to back up your comment on Michael's drug taking to null the pain during his own trial then by all means,share with the group but if not,then it is merely your OWN opinion and not common knowledge.
Hence the assumption about your post -that you made it sound like you know him.
You are 'new' here correct,you also seem to be rubbing people up the wrong way so instead of replying back in the manner of a 15yr old,why don't you yourself be civil and realise you don't know it all,things aren't common knowledge,it doesn't matter how long you have been a fan,it does not give you the right to be sarcastic,nasty,RUDE,and childish.
We try to respect each other on here,work together and support each other.
If you're going to reply,which,I have no doubt you will,do so in an adult fashion please.
In other news..
Insurance,I will find what I am talking about,and get back to you.
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That would be sad to lock this thread just because some people can't have a debate without attacking each others and calling names ....
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It would be sad,it's a much needed thread atm.
I haven't called anyone anything that I'm aware of.
I have done nothing but try to provide information,facts,updates and with great difficulty-keep the peace and people feeling positive.
I've said what I need to say on the issue.
Days 5/6 will be up tonight in the locked thread.
Productive not destructive.
There is enough going on without added drama.
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And I was not talking about you, I gave a warning to the one I was talking about
However yes, enough with the drama ... Would be nice to stay on topic
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It would be sad,it's a much needed thread atm.
I haven't called anyone anything that I'm aware of.
I have done nothing but try to provide information,facts,updates and with great difficulty-keep the peace and people feeling positive.
I've said what I need to say on the issue.
Days 5/6 will be up tonight in the locked thread.
Productive not destructive.
There is enough going on without added drama.
Would you mind reminding me where the updates are posted please?
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Of course,they are at the top of every thread in a locked global thread.
I was busy this week with some other things so sorry for the delay in the last 2days
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17067
x
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you are doing a superb job here sinderella.....................thankyou xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx :D :D :D
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You are welcome D lady !!!
You along with many others are a credit to the forum and to 'fighting the good fight' ox
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From what I understand about the paramedic team and UCLA's handling of this...'death'
by way of testimonies from the past few weeks and previous to that, I have this evening concluded that there is probably more drama,real life based actions and truth in this music video than what went down on June 25th 2009.
Maybe they should start playing this on paramedic training days and give pointers like
:idea: 1.The importance of speed when aiming to reach the emergency room
:idea: 2.Lights and Sirens-switch them on
:idea: 3.Do not 'hang around' waiting for people to pack,this is not a vacation.
and so on.
[youtube:qwq4srwa]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN8b4ZJK_5c[/youtube:qwq4srwa]
(Note:this is a light hearted post but they actually should haha)
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Thanks to all for all the posts here. There is a lot to consider.
All I know is from day one, 6-25-09 is that the timeline, the supposed facts, the outright lies and insinuations were all garbage. The Gov't agencies did not pay attention, the family did not pay attention, the media machine keeps chugging out more garbage. Meanwhile those of us that do try to figure this out are left pulling our hair out and banging our heads on our desks, but deep down we know this is all garbage for a reason. Just try to figure that out. :lol:
I try to refrain from the "But that's wrong!!" for much of it because who really knows?
I did check out the site posted...
"In other news....
Here is a link that is an interesting read about what went on with his catalog...in case you missed it....check out the 'familiar' names involved."
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi) ... gain-22420
Right off it seems a huge task to understand. I also noticed that Mike is sporting a huge afro in a photo with Al Maknik. Now for sure as an adult I never saw him with an afro like this! This photo has to be BS, that leads to how much of what we find on Michael is BS??
Check it out, about 1/4 down the page you'll see the photo.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/mi ... 0?page=0,1 (http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/michael-jackson-1-can-john-branca-save-jackson-again-22420?page=0,1)
Thanks to all.
I'll keep simmering.
We love you and miss you so much Michael!!
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That photo was taken at a party. It's a retro wig.
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Just to let you all know,the last few days will be up tomorrow.
We are then waiting on Murray's court hearing for the trial date OR possibly a deal...
What are the general thoughts on this 'deal' the media mentioned?That he will walk away with a suspended sentence if he admits he is guilty of manslaughter.
(NOTE TO EVERYONE:There is a member posting spam comments in a number of threads,please DO NOT click on anything it is likely to be a virus.The posts are huge in length,you can't miss them and the member is 'creelostedoda', so just letting you know if you see these avoid like the plague until Souza can delete them and ban the user.x
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Just to let you all know,the last few days will be up tomorrow.
We are then waiting on Murray's court hearing for the trial date OR possibly a deal...
What are the general thoughts on this 'deal' the media mentioned?That he will walk away with a suspended sentence if he admits he is guilty of manslaughter.
(NOTE TO EVERYONE:There is a member posting spam comments in a number of threads,please DO NOT click on anything it is likely to be a virus.The posts are huge in length,you can't miss them and the member is 'creelostedoda', so just letting you know if you see these avoid like the plague until Souza can delete them and ban the user.x
Thanks for the heads up on the possible virus!
Be back later with some thoughts if I can gather them and put them in one place. :D
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@ E_G No worries,they have been blocked now but might sign back up with a new name so just wanted to let people know not to be clicking on any suspicious links or comments.
Haha,good luck with that one,if you succeed I look forward to an almighty post later on :lol:
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the nurse my husband had for his treatment the other day was telling me what was going on as things progressed. at one point she pointed out a ivdrip of saline solution and told me that this was the buddy to the chemo. she went on to explain that in case of a reaction the treatment would be stopped and the buddy would be used to flush his system. and i remember also when he got his port and they gave him an antibiotic that there was another bag there. now from what i remember reading from testamony an iv bag was cut and the propofol bottle was found in it. why would murry do this if he already had an iv in the persons leg? it sounds like it was done in a manner to keep anyone from being able to help him and also like it was done quickly.that might also account for the broken syringe. murry could have just paniced and wanted to get rid of stuff even if he didn't do it because he knew he was being set up.
have i gone la la again . idk any thoughts
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Was the cutting of the IV bag not done when he was packing things into bags and hiding things(doing a very BAD job at it) but doing it none the less...
Fleak said the solution in the IV bag was clear,not milky or cloudy so the profool was not being used via that,infact the only line that had a trace of it in was the branch line,not the main line,that was clear of drugs which indicates whoever it was inserted into was on saline and the branch line was just there..and again looks like a total set up.
The more I re-read it all and look into things myself and google...the more I Iaugh.
It's supposed to be a serious thing,I know..I truly feel very sorry for it but it's just all so hysterical,it is just too unbelievable....to be beLIEved I am afraid.
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i thought it said the bag was milky looking. rereading isn't in the cards for me tonight though. perhaps tomarrow at some point. :D
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"If we are to go forward, we must go back and rediscover those precious values - that all reality hinges on moral foundations and that all reality has spiritual control."-MLKJr
Happy MLK day to everyone.
Great man.Greater legacy.
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Just to let you all know,the last few days will be up tomorrow.
We are then waiting on Murray's court hearing for the trial date OR possibly a deal...
What are the general thoughts on this 'deal' the media mentioned?That he will walk away with a suspended sentence if he admits he is guilty of manslaughter.
(NOTE TO EVERYONE:There is a member posting spam comments in a number of threads,please DO NOT click on anything it is likely to be a virus.The posts are huge in length,you can't miss them and the member is 'creelostedoda', so just letting you know if you see these avoid like the plague until Souza can delete them and ban the user.x
Hi - just my thought but if this is a parallel to the 2005 trial there won't be any plea bargain and Dr Murray will want to go to court to prove his innocence. I feel like anything less wouldn't complete this chapter of the lesson. Blessings.
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i thought it said the bag was milky looking. rereading isn't in the cards for me tonight though. perhaps tomarrow at some point. :D
Saved you the hassle
Q: Did the tubing above it have liquid in it?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was that clear?
Fleak: Yes
Q: Was the IV bag clear?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did it have a milky appearance to it?
Fleak: It was clear
Also Syringe was not broken,it was in seperate parts
Q: Talk about the “broken” syringe.
Fleak: I should have described it as “separate.” It was not cracked it was not broken it was not defective in any way. They were just separate—the needle and the plunger.
@Voice,Well there is that,we shall find out next week!It could go either way,the trial is a toal mess.It is so hard to predict anything,I mean Murray just doesn't seem bothered at all,he's out having dinner,shopping,going the gym....no fans are after him or harassing him daily..which I find really strange.Not that he is out and about,that the non believers aren't camped outside his door with pitchforks.
I know they want to see him go to prison so there is no point in harming him-highly unlikely but still...no reports from the almighty TMZ about how he is in fear of his life whilst out with his family.
So yeah....er....Keep Watchin'...lol.
there is also the strange fact Jermaine is out the country...
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.....and unable to ge back......allegedly.
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I call BS going off my findings on the rules and regs for the length of time a US passport MUST legally have left on it to
1.leave the US
2.enter Africa
What do you call? haha
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I call BS going off my findings on the rules and regs for the length of time a US passport MUST legally have left on it to
1.leave the US
2.enter Africa
What do you call? haha
Same here. I posted that in another thread. If I take a plane, my passport needs to be valid for at least 6 months, within the EU. I can imagine that could be longer if go outside the EU.
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Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when booking
Jermaine,come on dude...
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Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when booking
Jermaine,come on dude...
Yeah, or Mike, come on dude... We're not THAT stupid!
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Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when bookingJermaine,come on dude...
That's news to me. I have flown overseas many times and not once did anyone ask me how long my passport was valid.
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Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when bookingJermaine,come on dude...
That's news to me. I have flown overseas many times and not once did anyone ask me how long my passport was valid.
Well that is my experience,and that is yours..
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I am missing something here. Who travels with valid or invalid passport, people?
Michael ? If him, then how you think Michael would travel and often within EU or from EU to the USA?
To travel to EU from here, we have to get visa of that EU or other country and definitely passport must be valid.US passports valid for 10 years.
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I am missing something here. Who travels with valid or invalid passport, people?
Michael ? If him, then how you think Michael would travel and often within EU or from EU to the USA?
To travel to EU from here, we have to get visa of that EU or other country and definitely passport must be valid.US passports valid for 10 years.
We were talking about Jermaine. Off-topic, I know. No idea how it ended up here. I guess Mike uses a private jet if he travels, sounds safer to me.
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I mentioned JJ being out of the country as another strange factor in the prelim goings on that is how the conversation turned into him being NOT stranded in Africa.
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Encino_girl!!! Where you at? You must have some almighty thoughts,you've been writing your post for days! haha!
Nah,seriously though,hope your ok and haven't given up! xo
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Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting
#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner’s office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..
Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5’ 9” and 136 pounds.
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.
My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.
Have we found out yet if MJ had to take shoes off in 2003 for arrest info??
edit: just emailed sheriff county barbara and asked about shoes on or of for booking/arrest info
will let you know if they bother to get back to me
Sooo they got back to me, this was their reply in regards to shoes on/off
Ms.
We do not physically measure someone's height or weight at the time of booking. That information is received by us on a written booking sheet that the arresting officer fills out. I suspect, although I'm not 100% sure, that the arresting officer takes the information from the person's drivers license and puts it on the booking sheet. If they don't have a license, they most likely just ask the person directly.
Respectfully,
Lt. Bondietti
Santa Barbara Sheriff's Dept.
Custody Support Division
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Sooo they got back to me, this was their reply in regards to shoes on/off
Ms.
We do not physically measure someone's height or weight at the time of booking. That information is received by us on a written booking sheet that the arresting officer fills out. I suspect, although I'm not 100% sure, that the arresting officer takes the information from the person's drivers license and puts it on the booking sheet. If they don't have a license, they most likely just ask the person directly.
Respectfully,
Lt. Bondietti
Santa Barbara Sheriff's Dept.
Custody Support Division
(http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/Mugshot__michael-jackson-info.jpg)
(http://gracemj.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/b4.jpg)
5,9 or 5,11?
Michael had a drivers license.
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Something to think about....If you are going by his driver's license which he acquired in his twenties he could have grown ...I did.
Also, when you renew your driver's license they just use the information that is already on it.
One last thought...he may not have even had a current DL because it was known he was a terrible driver ...and as we have all seen he had driver's.
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Encino_girl!!! Where you at? You must have some almighty thoughts,you've been writing your post for days! haha!
Nah,seriously though,hope your ok and haven't given up! xo
All's good! Thanks for asking. Between being busy for a couple of days, and then finding myself a little under the weather for the past couple of days, I've not had much time to even formulate a coherent reply. I assure you, I've not given up. I'm with y'all in spirit!
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From what I understand about the paramedic team and UCLA's handling of this...'death'
by way of testimonies from the past few weeks and previous to that, I have this evening concluded that there is probably more drama,real life based actions and truth in this music video than what went down on June 25th 2009.
Maybe they should start playing this on paramedic training days and give pointers like
:idea: 1.The importance of speed when aiming to reach the emergency room
:idea: 2.Lights and Sirens-switch them on
:idea: 3.Do not 'hang around' waiting for people to pack,this is not a vacation.
and so on.
[youtube:zjp2spqw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN8b4ZJK_5c[/youtube:zjp2spqw]
(Note:this is a light hearted post but they actually should haha)
Sinderella, bravo! indeed that`s the way it works with ambulances. Sirens and find a quick exit so you can save the person in the ambulance, and speed. Not going backwards and than front wards until you can get out. That rate a person can really die. So just that i say Michael did not die he was not in the ambulance. The real paramedics they know what to do. These were probably actors that Michael knew. ( his friends) ... Like I heard it is not the first time he does that. Blessings.