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Official General Prelim Discussion thread

Started by Sinderella, January 04, 2011, 08:46:04 PM

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A summary from inside the court 4/1/11

QuoteCOURT – DAY 1
04/01/11

Judge :- Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor
Prosecutor:  Assistant Deputy D.A. David Walgren
Defence: Ed Chernoff

Family attending:-
Katherine Jackson
LaToya Jackson
Jackie Jackson

Witnesses called:-
Kenny Ortega (Producer/Director – This Is It)
Michael Amir( Michael's Bodyguards)
Faheen Muhammed (Michael's Bodyguard)

Court convened at 9am.

Reports have Murray as usual been 'shepharded' in through the back door and arriving in court looking remarkably relaxed – as he continued to be throughout the whole proceedings.
Fans remained outside behaved in a respectful and dignified manner as the family filed in.

Deputy District Attorney, David Walgren said he will rely on Murray's statements to police, as well as text messages, phone records and expert testimony to show the doctor should stand trial.

He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.

He faulted the doctor in opening statements for performing CPR on Jackson with one hand on his bed, rather than a hard surface as is generally required.

He also stated that " fabulous" rehearsal two days before his death and was set to go to London in a few days."

Walgren also plans to call several experts whom he said would testify, "there are a number of actions displayed by Dr. Murray that show an extreme deviation from the standard of care."

The prosecutor also said he would call a bodyguard who would testify that Murray ordered him to collect items from Jackson's bedroom

The first witness the prosecution called was "This Is It" producer/director Kenny Ortega

KENNY ORTEGA

Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson's home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.

Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.

Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.

"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."

Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.

"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."

The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.

"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."

Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.

He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.

"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said.

On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.

MICHAEL AMIR  WILLIAMS

Another witness, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams, described Murray calling him on the day the superstar died and frantically asking him to get help from bodyguards for Jackson, who was in a bedroom

Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM  said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."

Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.

Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up
 
Williams added that staff were never allowed upstairs.

Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson's children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.

He went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some 'cream' that "Michael wouldn't want people to see". Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to 'lock it down'. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!


FAHEEN MUHAMMED

One of Michael's other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"

"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said

When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."

Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there,"

Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.

Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.

Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.

"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.

The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.

The session ended at approx 16.30pm.  To be reconvened on 5/1/11 at 09.30am

Travis Payne was also present.
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SinderellaTopic starter

January 18, 2011, 07:27:11 PM #615 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when booking

Jermaine,come on dude...

~Souza~

January 18, 2011, 08:08:46 PM #616 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Sinderella"

Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when booking

Jermaine,come on dude...

Yeah, or Mike, come on dude... We're not THAT stupid!

mjssoulmate

January 18, 2011, 08:20:16 PM #617 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Sinderella"

Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when bookingJermaine,come on dude...

That's news to me.  I have flown overseas many times and not once did anyone ask me how long my passport was valid.

You Are My Life
                             mjssoulmate

SinderellaTopic starter

January 18, 2011, 08:48:30 PM #618 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "mjssoulmate"

Quote from: "Sinderella"

Totally Souza,since I travel a lot it needs to be at least 12months so I got a new 10year one in like...2006 so I didn't have to panic until 2016 haha.
It is incase things happen,you might get stuck somewhere-kidnapped-lost-injured!
Injury and insurance is another vital point,everyone needs travel insurance and to qualify i'm pretty sure you'd need a valid passport incase you got injured and had to spend more than the time left on your passport in the country your visiting...
+As a side note-I said in the actual thread on the subject I doubt he would of been able to book a ticket as you have to enter your passport details 'valid from/to' when bookingJermaine,come on dude...

That's news to me.  I have flown overseas many times and not once did anyone ask me how long my passport was valid.

Well that is my experience,and that is yours..

scorpionchik

January 18, 2011, 10:35:33 PM #619 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

I am missing something here. Who travels with valid or invalid passport, people?
Michael ?  If him, then how you think Michael would travel and often within EU or from EU to the USA?
To travel to EU from here, we have to get visa of that EU or other country and definitely passport must be valid.US passports valid for 10 years.

EndlesslovetoMJ

~Souza~

January 19, 2011, 03:23:19 AM #620 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "scorpionchik"

I am missing something here. Who travels with valid or invalid passport, people?
Michael ?  If him, then how you think Michael would travel and often within EU or from EU to the USA?
To travel to EU from here, we have to get visa of that EU or other country and definitely passport must be valid.US passports valid for 10 years.

We were talking about Jermaine. Off-topic, I know. No idea how it ended up here. I guess Mike uses a private jet if he travels, sounds safer to me.

SinderellaTopic starter

January 19, 2011, 03:52:37 AM #621 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

I mentioned JJ being out of the country as another strange factor in the prelim goings on that is how the conversation turned into him being NOT stranded in Africa.

SinderellaTopic starter

January 20, 2011, 07:38:21 AM #622 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Encino_girl!!! Where you at? You must have some almighty thoughts,you've been writing your post for days! haha!

Nah,seriously though,hope your ok and haven't given up! xo

ijcsly

January 20, 2011, 01:48:38 PM #623 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "ijcsly"

Quote from: "Sinderella"

Sorry,this is getting on my nerves and it needs correcting

Quote

#21 Christopher Rogers
Empolyed LA Co coroner/ Chief forensic medicine. Supervise doctors who work at coroner's office, and occasionally does autopsies himself..

Did you perform the autopsy in this particular case in case? Yes. On June 26, 2009
Condition of overall health was excellent
He was 5' 9" and 136 pounds.

I don't think you were looking at the right body,Mr Rogers.

My father is the same age and height as Michael,he hasn't shrunk with age as people are suggesting atm on twitter.He isn't THAT old ffs.People start shrinking in like their late 60s/70s/80s if they do at all.Not everyone does.
The casket was still 5'7 and when one is required they add inches ON.They are snug but also allow room for cushioning,shoes and anything else the body may be buried in/with.They don't make them to measure exactly,it isn't a tuxedo!
My cousin was 6'4,his casket was 7ft+ long.

Have we found out yet if MJ had to take shoes off in 2003 for arrest info??

edit: just emailed sheriff county barbara and asked about shoes on or of for booking/arrest info
will let you know if they bother to get back to me

Sooo they got back to me, this was their reply in regards to shoes on/off

Ms.

We do not physically measure someone's height or weight at the time of booking.  That information is received by us on a written booking sheet that the arresting officer fills out.  I suspect, although I'm not 100% sure, that the arresting officer takes the information from the person's drivers license and puts it on the booking sheet.  If they don't have a license, they most likely just ask the person directly.

Respectfully,
Lt. Bondietti
Santa Barbara Sheriff's Dept.
Custody Support Division

MissG

January 20, 2011, 02:41:13 PM #624 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "ijcsly"

Sooo they got back to me, this was their reply in regards to shoes on/off

Ms.

We do not physically measure someone's height or weight at the time of booking.  That information is received by us on a written booking sheet that the arresting officer fills out.  I suspect, although I'm not 100% sure, that the arresting officer takes the information from the person's drivers license and puts it on the booking sheet.  If they don't have a license, they most likely just ask the person directly.  

Respectfully,
Lt. Bondietti
Santa Barbara Sheriff's Dept.
Custody Support Division


5,9 or 5,11?
Michael had a drivers license.

("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

RunFaYaLife

January 20, 2011, 05:43:00 PM #625 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Something to think about....If you are going by his driver's license which he acquired in his twenties he could have grown ...I did.

Also, when you renew your driver's license they just use the information that is already on it.

One last thought...he may not have even had a current DL because it was known he was a terrible driver ...and as we have all seen he had driver's.

encino_girl

January 20, 2011, 08:55:00 PM #626 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Sinderella"

Encino_girl!!! Where you at? You must have some almighty thoughts,you've been writing your post for days! haha!

Nah,seriously though,hope your ok and haven't given up! xo

All's good! Thanks for asking. Between being busy for a couple of days, and then finding myself a little under the weather for the past couple of days, I've not had much time to even formulate a coherent reply. I assure you, I've not given up. I'm with y'all in spirit!
Until the great mass of the people shall be filled with the sense of responsibility for each other\'s welfare, social justice can never be attained.

all4loveandbelieve

January 20, 2011, 09:20:23 PM #627 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Sinderella"

From what I understand about the paramedic team and UCLA's handling of this...'death'
by way of testimonies from the past few weeks and previous to that, I have this evening concluded that there is probably more drama,real life based actions and truth in this music video than what went down on June 25th 2009.

Maybe they should start playing this on paramedic training days and give pointers like

:idea: 1.The importance of speed when aiming to reach the emergency room
:idea: 2.Lights and Sirens-switch them on
:idea: 3.Do not 'hang around' waiting for people to pack,this is not a vacation.
and so on.

[youtube:zjp2spqw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN8b4ZJK_5c[/youtube:zjp2spqw]
(Note:this is a light hearted post but they actually should haha)

Sinderella, bravo! indeed that`s the way it works with ambulances. Sirens and find a quick exit so you can save the person in the ambulance, and speed.  Not going backwards and than front wards until you can get out. That rate a person can really die. So just that i say Michael did not die he was not in the ambulance. The real paramedics they know what to do. These were probably actors that Michael knew. ( his friends) ... Like I heard it is not the first time he does that. Blessings.



I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am.
Michael Jackson
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