TIAI September 27

[BeTheChange]

When you 'subtract' all the contradictions (which would be important to the jury, if they are 'real', like time of death, how he died, etc)...what the jury is basically left with are some 'details' that both sides aren't contradicting.  As per the 'script', Murray (a doctor) ordered a huge amount of propofol and had it shipped to a residential address.  He administered propofol and several other meds to MJ nightly, in his home, over a 2 month period.  Unless he's lived under a rock, Murray did all this knowing that Mike has previously publically stated he had become addicted to prescription meds (whether true or not, this was publically stated by MJ himself).  Based on the autopsy report, propofol played a huge role in his 'death'....as did Murray's actions and lack of action/equipment in dealing with an emergency situation.

Because of all the contradictions, the jury may get 'hung up' on making a decision....but IMO the contradictions are a smoke-screen.  Again, ONLY going by what has been presented in court, which WE know is riddled with false 'evidence'....but trying to see it from the jury's perspective, based on what they've been 'allowed' to see...the time of 'death', how much propofol was given and when, etc....while important, don't detract or negate Murray's actions leading up to the moment of 'death'. 

Should having a 'license' give doctors free access to do whatever they want for the right price...even when their decisions are contrary to the oath they've taken?  When asking that question, which I believe is at the heart of this trial, the contradictions become minor points.  If the trial ends without any surprises, and regardless of what the jurors discuss in reaching a decision...their verdict will speak volumes and will either send a loud message to 'Hollywood' doctors and doctors all over the country...or it may, potentially, open up the floodgates of 'doctors for hire'.  At this point, again based solely on what's been presented in court so far....if a verdict of 'innocent' is reached....the jury is, in essence, saying that it is 'ok' for doctors to do as they please...to have free reign and power to purchase, prescribe and administer whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want, however they want and for whoever they want, regardless of whether or not it is medically warranted. 

THAT, in itself, brings to mind Back's post about the need for more 'intricate' plots to kill someone nowadays, whereas 20 years ago a bullet would suffice.  Most people have a doctor...people in 'high places' most definitely have doctors...an innocent verdict could set a precedent allowing 'hits' on people without the need for a gun...all they'd need is money and a 'doctor for hire'.  IF doctors are allowed this level of power it's not only people in 'high places' that could be at risk...we all could be given the fact that we 'trust' doctors with our lives (think vaccines, 'new' shots for 'new' viruses, etc).

If the trial ends with Dr. White or without a major turn of events (like Murray testifying)...this is what the jury will be left to decide, it all comes down to how much power doctors should have.  And that is a very scary thought.

With L.O.V.E. always.

P.S. @TS...do you not have a sweet-tooth?  :lol:  What else can we 'bribe' you with? 

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died.  anyway until the official announcement.
....

- Hi Suzy, this bothers me a LOT, too. It's so important and .. it's the key moment really.
They blather about "around 12 p.m.?" but I need
proper confirmation from proper medics/coroners. They did have really nice fresh body, didn't they, why so hard to deliver real time of death?
  /pull hair/
At times seems like "the body" was hopelessly dead way before 12 p.m.
Then suddenly it was still half-alive after 12 p.m.
Then totally dead when paramedics arrived.
Then crazy amount of time "saving" the very dead body at hospital, "because Murray told them to".
 /overreacting/

i personally absolutely LOVE the fact that the time line doesnt add up and therefore an official TOD can not be attained... more evidence that he never actually died. maybe instead of trying to obtain a TOD and working it out, the actual answer is the fact that one can not be found....  /woohoo/

maybe wrong, but is a possibility.

[wishingstar]

When you 'subtract' all the contradictions (which would be important to the jury, if they are 'real', like time of death, how he died, etc)...what the jury is basically left with are some 'details' that both sides aren't contradicting.  As per the 'script', Murray (a doctor) ordered a huge amount of propofol and had it shipped to a residential address.  He administered propofol and several other meds to MJ nightly, in his home, over a 2 month period.  Unless he's lived under a rock, Murray did all this knowing that Mike has previously publically stated he had become addicted to prescription meds (whether true or not, this was publically stated by MJ himself).  Based on the autopsy report, propofol played a huge role in his 'death'....as did Murray's actions and lack of action/equipment in dealing with an emergency situation.

Because of all the contradictions, the jury may get 'hung up' on making a decision....but IMO the contradictions are a smoke-screen.  Again, ONLY going by what has been presented in court, which WE know is riddled with false 'evidence'....but trying to see it from the jury's perspective, based on what they've been 'allowed' to see...the time of 'death', how much propofol was given and when, etc....while important, don't detract or negate Murray's actions leading up to the moment of 'death'. 

Should having a 'license' give doctors free access to do whatever they want for the right price...even when their decisions are contrary to the oath they've taken?  When asking that question, which I believe is at the heart of this trial, the contradictions become minor points.  If the trial ends without any surprises, and regardless of what the jurors discuss in reaching a decision...their verdict will speak volumes and will either send a loud message to 'Hollywood' doctors and doctors all over the country...or it may, potentially, open up the floodgates of 'doctors for hire'.  At this point, again based solely on what's been presented in court so far....if a verdict of 'innocent' is reached....the jury is, in essence, saying that it is 'ok' for doctors to do as they please...to have free reign and power to purchase, prescribe and administer whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want, however they want and for whoever they want, regardless of whether or not it is medically warranted. 

THAT, in itself, brings to mind Back's post about the need for more 'intricate' plots to kill someone nowadays, whereas 20 years ago a bullet would suffice.  Most people have a doctor...people in 'high places' most definitely have doctors...an innocent verdict could set a precedent allowing 'hits' on people without the need for a gun...all they'd need is money and a 'doctor for hire'.  IF doctors are allowed this level of power it's not only people in 'high places' that could be at risk...we all could be given the fact that we 'trust' doctors with our lives (think vaccines, 'new' shots for 'new' viruses, etc).

If the trial ends with Dr. White or without a major turn of events (like Murray testifying)...this is what the jury will be left to decide, it all comes down to how much power doctors should have.  And that is a very scary thought.

With L.O.V.E. always.

P.S. @TS...do you not have a sweet-tooth?  :lol:  What else can we 'bribe' you with? 

 /bravo/  Great post BeTheChange.........thank you so much for putting words to some thoughts that have been floating around my head as well.......much appreciated!

*Perhaps TS is a dentist.....how about fava beans and a nice chianti?   :lol:

Blessings Always

[Aidan_81]

You are right, BeTheChange .. guess that's what was said before the trial somewhere?
What the trial is about.

I think verdict should be "guilty".
Don't worry all, he won't spend much if any time in prison - and from what I get,
his licence is not that big deal anyway.
The one reason, among others, why the hoax should be revealed is "Murray's" safety -  he will
stay MJ's murderer for everyone out there. And this is dangerous.
If there is no hoax, then he is doomed for real. And no, not because of 4 years home arrest.
So I don't know.. they'll have to hide him somewhere anyway. Many people would
want him.. silent.

I hope Jermaine's promise "it all gonna come out" was not just words.   /white flag/
Though at the moment the trial goes on and on  /judge/ ...

[use_your_illusion]

@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.

So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?

[Grace]

You are right, BeTheChange ...

I think verdict should be "guilty".

I agree, BeTheChange. "Guilty" will point to reckless corrupt doctors - who are already existing and are making quite a lot of money without raising any eyebrow. "Not guilty" would open doors for "Drs Feelgood" to just go ahead and expand what they are already doing.

However, a "guilty" is no free ticket on this train. It is more complicated.

"Guilty"would be required for several reasons:
- despite the various theories elaborated in wildest speculations about what might have happened that day, Doc Murray had allegedly declared that he was not available when the person relying on him needed his competence. The various theories sneaking around the pit like a cat around the milk pot did not change any aspect of this statement.
So no matter what else happened, Doc Murray is guilty of neglect and missing care. In a moral common understanding, Doc Murray is guilty from his statement alone.
- "Guilty" would be "calming" those hostile souls whining for "revenge" on the murderer (for a while).
- "Guilty" is required to "calm" those who were nailed themselves in the trial: Dr. Shafer and Dr. White.
- "Guilty" is required following a dramaturgical logic to induce the wakeup and memory effect of shock for non-believers and non-interested: "it's not the way I thought".
- "Guilty" will put Doc Murray behind "bars" but not really as we learned from TMZ.
- "Guilty" holds the possibility of Michael returning and of a BAM.

But "guilty" is wrong since Doc Murray did not "kill" Michael.


If a "not guilty" is the outcome, the world will for a second be in uproar about "decreasing" moral (hence do nothing about it), the non-believers will scream and maybe attack Doc Murray as a murderer (who will have to search a safe haven - most likely outside the U.S.). Hate will continue to be spit on the Jackson family (which they know well by now).
The non-interested will put Michael as a drug addict to the records, the Jackson family will be one more time a bunch of typical Hollywood lunatics, the estate will continue to make money off Michael's unpublished songs and Michael will have a calm time with his family forever more.

But a "not guilty" is not correct either because Doc Murray did not act as a doctor with responsibility (according to his alleged statement).


This reminds much of the dilemma in "He who says yes" / "He who says no" by German author Bertold Brecht.
These are two theater plays about almost the same story - except one time the answer is "yes", one time the answer is "no". A controversy about society's values and whether individuals should bend for them.

These are scenes from a performance of Brooklyn College Academy:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related[/youtube]
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Whatever and however Michael likes to continue his life will be linked to the verdict.
As this is scripted already, we need not to worry.

[BeTheChange]

@Grace...great breakdown of both possible outcomes.  Thanks for posting the vid of that performance...I will watch it later when I can...it sounds very interesting.

@WishingStar...Chianti always sounds good to me

Looks like Dr. White is done...HLN is saying that one more witness is gonna be called.  The doc (I think she's a doc) that prepared those charts for White.  After that...it's anyone's guess lol.

Grab the popcorn folks and tighten those seatbelts!

With L.O.V.E. always.

[Suzy7]

So Murray wont testify.

 I also agree 100% BeTheChange and Grace. Guilty is the correct verdict given our understanding of the surface level things of what has been presented and according to Murray's own words. I also agree with the interpretation of BACK's post; it seems obvious he was speaking of the death of public and not-so-public figures. Our leaders have been dying for years in strange, yet eerily similar ways with no satisfying answer for those who want truth. Because of the questions these deaths created by "conspiracy theorists" as we're called, they began changing the many methods in which they could get rid of someone they no longer needed in various ways, suicide, overdose, natural causes ect. therefore less people question anything and that alone is frightening.
 
 The reason why TPTB can get away with such things is because of their connections in the medical field, judicial system ect. Freemasons work in all of these fields in powerful positions and if needed for 'hire' they're available.
I've read by some people here that if Murray was used in this way he wouldn't go to trial nor prison, but that is far from the truth. Again making cases like this more believable. If they have connections, the higher up help, work to get lower charges like manslaughter vs. muder, house arrest vs. prison ect. That is the point; although many who have been used in such ways by TPTB can end up in prison for life. So it is always good to keep all possibilities open.

That being said I believe this is both a hoax/sting exposing that system (gov), the medias propaganda, the publics unawareness and the corrupt medical field.

P.s. There is a great channel speaking about the intricate workings of the gov and their puppets on this youtube channel for those interested: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

[Sarahli]

Court is back on Thursday 3/11/2011 = 9 = Completion  /woohoo/

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Both parties have rested. now discussing the exhibits. court to resume thursday

[Suzy7]

Lol @ the statements by the judge to jury. He basically told them to put a blind fold on, ear plugs, and they might as well crawl in a box and glue themselves in it until Thursday. To summarize his instructions: "Do not think for yourself" oh, justice system.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Lol @ the statements by the judge to jury. He basically told them to put a blind fold on, ear plugs, and they might as well crawl in a box and glue themselves in it until Thursday. To summarize his instructions: "Do not think for yourself" oh, justice system.

oh he went on and on and on didnt he.... heaven forbid the jury 'stumble' upon truth....

[SimPattyK]

The 5th of November is an important date in the hoax so we can expect something important/significant to happen that day, right? I hope so. mj_dance/

^^I also expect something on 11th Nov. 2011 ----)) 11.11.11

[katy (MJFAN7)]

We can't forget "the 5th of November" either.

[Suzy7]

Lol Australian MJ Believer "heaven forbid the jury stumble upon the truth" lol. It was funny, he did seemily drag on and on -____- . Now we must anxiously wait until Thurs.

Edit: Is anyone still watching HLN? Their comments are interesting. First of all Dr. White's need to speak to media and fans continues, he seems anxious to want to speak.
A lawyer pointed out that the impartiality with expert witnesses' is what their needed for, just their expert opinion, but the witnesses in this case seem to have an "axe to grind" and they dont know what it is. He then laughed and said "something else is going on here but I'm not sure what it is." then, they all laughed in amusement. Something is definitely going on..