To guess the subject and/or timing of level 7 ?
Assuming level 7 is different from update 7 right? Because you said update 7 will be after the bam.
p.s. I hope this thread won't be a game in 3, what is the rest of us supposed to do while you 3 will discuss the 3 theories :?
I'm bouncing alright Adi...bouncing off the walls! I could use one of those 777 bottles right about now lolol/ . It's been a long time since I've been this excited!
Just hope the Jackson family is doing alright. I know the end result will be worth it all...but I'm sure that the 'means' to get there won't be easy all the time. Wishing them, and all of you, a wonderful day full of enLIGHTenment.
TS...do you ever sleep? You were up at the crack of dawn this morning...or had you not even gone to bed yet? :?
@ilovemjforever...coverage starts at 11am Eastern time.
With L.O.V.E. always.
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
I'm bouncing alright Adi...bouncing off the walls! I could use one of those 777 bottles right about now lolol/ . It's been a long time since I've been this excited!
Just hope the Jackson family is doing alright. I know the end result will be worth it all...but I'm sure that the 'means' to get there won't be easy all the time. Wishing them, and all of you, a wonderful day full of enLIGHTenment.
Sources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
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Level 7 will perhaps (?) have something to do with Update 7 which TS said probably won't come until after the Bam.
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
Level 7 will perhaps (?) have something to do with Update 7 which TS said probably won't come until after the Bam.
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
TS said Update 7 will be after the bam. In the meantime he/she invented these "levels". So I think Level 7 is different from Update 7 and will probably happen before the bam.
Level 7 will perhaps (?) have something to do with Update 7 which TS said probably won't come until after the Bam.
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
TS said Update 7 will be after the bam. In the meantime he/she invented these "levels". So I think Level 7 is different from Update 7 and will probably happen before the bam.
He said probably. You know how he does.
I just have a random comment on humanity: It can suck at times.
I have HLN on and watching the coverage of the trial as I sit here to read among my friend's posts (which I LOVE).
What makes me comment so harshly on humanity are the actions of the press/media. I have only this network on, but no doubt others are as pompous & self-righteous in their reporting. I can't believe how much they are eating this alive and turning it into such vulgar display of their own devices. They just reported that, "the Jacksons just all went into the bathroom".....I am sorry but WTF?? . These press/media people are so vain, so disgusting, so arrogant in their speech. I remember the trial in 2005, and it was crazy then too. However, like everything in the world, it's more now. We have more tech at our disposal now.....direct links, facebook, twitter, texting, instant communications all over the place.
The entire coverage seems more like a sports event. I am expecting the reporters to pullout a playbook and do those little point A to point B lines. (A girl is being interviewed from Germany.....came just for the trial).
Anyways, I am so over-the-top ill with the press.......they are such self-promoting maggots. I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have your life dissected by these creatures. All the self-promoting commercials for this.....make me puke.
Well, sorry for the rant......but I had to say something. I hope this trial is staged, because otherwise I just might throw in the towel and go live on a mountain top.....hopefully with a nice vineyard....how 'bout it BeTheChange...mountain top vineyard? ::P
I am sure by the time this is over, I'll have to rant again....hopefully, I'll be able to control it better.
OMGosh...they just called it a "circus".......wow, is this for real? Humanity at it's best........not.
Murray entered the 9th floor and was rushed by some woman.
Blessings
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
I'm with hesouttamylife...gonna take the day to S.T.U.D.Y. the 'key' players before rendering my verdict re: hoax or sting /judge/Oh lord have mercy on me during this trial. I have issues with my PC, it is very slow. I am also late logging on and just now reading the thread. I am watching right now the opening statements on In Session and for some reason I am 3 hours behind the actual LA trial start. I am on the west coast so I do not understand why it is like that. Please have patience because I do have my A game on. I won't rush to make any comments until I have read or watched what I need to. smiley_spider
But great opening statement bec...simple but compelling ;)
Where's Im_convinced? Time's a ticking...I need a rebuttal lolol/
This morning gave me the perfect opening statement (although significantly less formal then you might expect). Thank you TMZ for this quote:bec- I don't want to go back and forth to much with one topic. Cool with you?QuoteSources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
Wishingstar, I agree with you 100I just have a random comment on humanity: It can suck at times.
I have HLN on and watching the coverage of the trial as I sit here to read among my friend's posts (which I LOVE).
What makes me comment so harshly on humanity are the actions of the press/media. I have only this network on, but no doubt others are as pompous & self-righteous in their reporting. I can't believe how much they are eating this alive and turning it into such vulgar display of their own devices. They just reported that, "the Jacksons just all went into the bathroom".....I am sorry but WTF?? . These press/media people are so vain, so disgusting, so arrogant in their speech. I remember the trial in 2005, and it was crazy then too. However, like everything in the world, it's more now. We have more tech at our disposal now.....direct links, facebook, twitter, texting, instant communications all over the place.
The entire coverage seems more like a sports event. I am expecting the reporters to pullout a playbook and do those little point A to point B lines. (A girl is being interviewed from Germany.....came just for the trial).
Anyways, I am so over-the-top ill with the press.......they are such self-promoting maggots. I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have your life dissected by these creatures. All the self-promoting commercials for this.....make me puke.
Well, sorry for the rant......but I had to say something. I hope this trial is staged, because otherwise I just might throw in the towel and go live on a mountain top.....hopefully with a nice vineyard....how 'bout it BeTheChange...mountain top vineyard? ::P
I am sure by the time this is over, I'll have to rant again....hopefully, I'll be able to control it better.
OMGosh...they just called it a "circus".......wow, is this for real? Humanity at it's best........not.
Murray entered the 9th floor and was rushed by some woman.
Blessings
i agree with you 100% vulgarity .. Some people have audacity.. I am also watching HLN and at the begining they wrote that one juror was with the judge.. I wonder if it is not Michael.. Why one juror?
Hey all, http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj
Here is a link ( http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj ) to the photo used in the trial, which is a picture of MJ lying on a stretcher at the hospital.
This makes me VERY sad... But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. My only question: Why does MJ have straight hair if he had curly hair the night before he died?
What are your thoughts?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)Take a good look at all the pictures provided. The first 4 are from Level 1 and the other 2 are from the thread "Photo Used In Trial - MJ At The Hospital". First of all I wanna know where the first pic (the one with the word Homicide on it) came from? I want to know the source, not an upload on yfrog.
I don't know. I realize this may sound crazy and while I am a BeLIEver. Something tells me that Michael Jackson is Conrad Murray. There's just something about him whenever I see something unique, mysterious, and I don't know it's a weird feeling I get.been feeling this for a while now myself. i guess if it turns out we are just nuts we can share the jacket on alternate days. penguin/
Hey all, http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj (http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj)
Here is a link ( http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj (http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj) ) to the photo used in the trial, which is a picture of MJ lying on a stretcher at the hospital.
This makes me VERY sad... But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. My only question: Why does MJ have straight hair if he had curly hair the night before he died?
What are your thoughts?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)Take a good look at all the pictures provided. The first 4 are from Level 1 and the other 2 are from the thread "Photo Used In Trial - MJ At The Hospital". First of all I wanna know where the first pic (the one with the word Homicide on it) came from? I want to know the source, not an upload on yfrog.
Michael Jackson death certificate ruling homicide appears online
by Mandi Bierly
The amendment to Michael Jackson’s death certificate declaring that his June 25 passing was due to “acute propofol intoxication” and “intravenous injection by another,” has been published online.
EW has confirmed with the L.A. County coroner’s office that the document, which is part of the public record, is genuine. Jackson’s death was officially ruled a homicide last August.
On Friday afternoon, Jane Robison, a spokeswoman for the L.A. district attorney’s office, told EW that recent reports claiming Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson’s physician, will be indicted on charges of involuntary manslaughter are false. “Nothing has changed,” Robison said. “It’s a bogus report. We don’t have the case.” WTF??
A spokeswoman for Dr. Murray also sent EW the following statement: “We have refused to comment on stories involving unnamed sources and will continue to do so. However, we can confirm that we have not received notice of an impaneled grand jury and Dr. Murray has not been invited to testify. J. Michael Flanagan was added to Dr. Conrad Murray’s defense team this past week. His offices are in Glendale, California.” As we previously reported, Flanagan is the attorney who represented Britney Spears in a hit-and-run case. He told the AP he once also successfully defended a nurse who was acquitted in an L.A. trial after being accused of administering propofol to a patient who died.
Homicide refers to the act of a human killing another human.
Criminal homicide
Criminal homicide takes several forms and includes certain unintentional killings. The crime committed in a criminal homicide is determined by the state of mind of the defendant and statutes defining the crime. Murder, for example, is usually an intentional crime. In some jurisdictions, certain types of murders automatically qualify for capital punishment, but if the defendant in a capital case is sufficiently mentally retarded in the United States he may not be executed, for reasons described in Atkins v. Virginia, similar to those utilizing an insanity defense.
Varying by jurisdiction, a homicide that occurs during the commission of a felony may constitute murder regardless the felon's mental state with regard to the killing. This is known as the felony murder rule. Much abbreviatted and incomplete, the felony murder rule says that one committing a felony may be guilty of murder if someone, including the felony victim, a bystander or a co-felon, dies as a result of his acts, regardless his intent - or lack thereof - to kill.
Criminal homicides also include voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. The mental state of the perpetrator of these crimes differs from that of one who commits murder.
Although suicide is not a form of homicide, assisting in another's suicide may constitute criminal homicide, as codified, for instance, in California Penal Code Sec. 401.
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
QuoteFor this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
QuoteFor this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
As of right now, I tend to agree with you Andrea...I can see both sides being in on it! All I know for sure is I've never seen such a "sloppy" trial before...so far it reminds me more of "Romper Room " then it does "Court"...I can't believe that more of the media haven't picked up on this!...Oh wait...yes I can! lolol/
About the DA saying Murray wasn't board certified in any state, that's new to me and I call BS. Does a doctor have to be board certified to have a liscense to practice? If yes then???
Why is a particular physician not board certified?
Physician board certification is a voluntary process that approximately 80 percent of doctors in the U.S. obtain. A physician is licensed by the state to "practice medicine and surgery," and medical board certification is not a requirement for licensure. Licensed physicians may practice in whatever medical disciplines interest them and can legally practice in that field of interest without obtaining a medical residency or fellowship. Board certification, however, means that a physician’s skills and knowledge in the specialty/subspecialty has been examined and meets standardized requirements by an ABMS Member Board. Additionally, some of the surgical specialties require one or more years of experience before physicians can take their board-certifying exams (the number of years varies according to each board). The physician in question may fit that category and may be working to satisfy the requirements for medical board certification. Most international medical graduates need to complete some required training in this country before they are able to take a particular board’s exam (if all the postgraduate training is completed in another country). Exceptions are made and vary with each board. (Some boards may accept Canadian and/or United Kingdom residencies. Call the ABMS Member Board for additional information.)
:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
typing/QuoteFor this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
As of right now, I tend to agree with you Andrea...I can see both sides being in on it! All I know for sure is I've never seen such a "sloppy" trial before...so far it reminds me more of "Romper Room " then it does "Court"...I can't believe that more of the media haven't picked up on this!...Oh wait...yes I can! lolol/
I am also thinking in the same way.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/KC.jpg)
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
If anyone needs a good laugh, to help you get through the trial, take a look at the comments about the 777 bottles of propofol kicking around on the floor {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339)}.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol: ) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court). In the previous levels, I have not had time to answer many of the comments; and frequently the comments are off topic, or repetition from those who haven’t read everything in the thread. So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive; hopefully this will make things more efficient. bangbang bangbang
Let the hopping begin!
/judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/
Chernoff will present an addiction specialist, who will testify DR. ARNOLD KLEIN ADDICTED MICHAEL JACKSON TO DEMEROL.I've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement.
@bec I am hoping we will get more of this type of scenario, but I don't really think that if we do it will be as blatant. Not to start with anyway!
Thanks go to TNZ on twitter
(http://truenewszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/playroom.jpg)
Pearljr (http://twitter.com/#%21/Pearljr) Pearljr There is a toy elephant in the courtroom 6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
I agree that one of the targets of the sting is the media. The irony of this being many media outlets take the lead from TMZ who is "in on it". No verifying the "facts" elsewhere, just running with it. They figure TMZ is legit and reliable since they were the ones who broke the news of Michael's "death". Which of course was a lie. Crazy how lies = legitimacy in the media world. And watching HLN...wow those people like to yell and condemn.
I agree that one of the targets of the sting is the media. The irony of this being many media outlets take the lead from TMZ who is "in on it". No verifying the "facts" elsewhere, just running with it. They figure TMZ is legit and reliable since they were the ones who broke the news of Michael's "death". Which of course was a lie. Crazy how lies = legitimacy in the media world. And watching HLN...wow those people like to yell and condemn.
You know what is funny about TMZ -- aren't they consider a tabloid, esp. before the MJ incident? So why would mega news corporations that we all supposed to rely on to get information about the world count on a TABLOID to get the truth? I don't understand. What happened to researching before reporting?
Geez, this is the worse time to have a slower computer. Ah well. So I wasn't able to view any of the trial. I'm hoping there will be some clips posted on youtube soon so I can review. From what I've read and seen and heard thus far, these are my observations.
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
2) Audio: I think this could be him simply acting. If it is him, I'm liking the lower voice but it does hurt to hear him that way. However, great acting! Or it is not him at all. In any event, I don't know how this can be used as evidence without any proof of it being him.
3) Media: A full on tabloid. Their behavior towards MJ pre and post June 25th is proof of this and I think this trial will be the epitome of that. Truly sick.
4) Possible Elephant: If there was a stuff elephant in the room, then this could be a nice way to imply that this whole trial will be turned into a circus (media circus). It also points to the elephants that were there at the memorial from the Greatest Show On Earth which could hold a double meaning that this trial will be the greatest show on earth because it will be shown to everyone on TV like a show. In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
Well that's it for now. I'm sad that I cannot view and study in real time nor barely can research it due to my computer issues as of late but thanks for the updates guys!
I agree that one of the targets of the sting is the media. The irony of this being many media outlets take the lead from TMZ who is "in on it". No verifying the "facts" elsewhere, just running with it. They figure TMZ is legit and reliable since they were the ones who broke the news of Michael's "death". Which of course was a lie. Crazy how lies = legitimacy in the media world. And watching HLN...wow those people like to yell and condemn.
You know what is funny about TMZ -- aren't they consider a tabloid, esp. before the MJ incident? So why would mega news corporations that we all supposed to rely on to get information about the world count on a TABLOID to get the truth? I don't understand. What happened to researching before reporting?
In order to prove a sting court you would have to prove that someone were acting differently because they believe MJ is dead then they would if he were alive.
In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informant or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person (see sting operation). So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.
In law enforcement, a sting operation is a deceptive operation designed to catch a person committing a crime. A typical sting will have a law-enforcement officer or cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing.TIAI May 1 Level 4
Ethical and legal concerns
Sting operations are fraught with ethical concerns over whether they constitute entrapment. Law-enforcement may have to be careful not to provoke the commission of a crime by someone who would not normally be inclined to do so. Additionally, in the process of such operations, the police often engage in the same crimes, such as buying or selling contraband, soliciting prostitutes, etc. In common law jurisdictions, the defendant may invoke the defense of entrapment.
Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, entrapment does not prohibit undercover police officers from posing as criminals or denying that they are police.Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from country to country. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Sting.jpg)
It’s time for another level. 8-)
We are now at the most important level: who is the focus of The Sting? Keep in mind the possibility that more than one person or entity is the focus.
Most specifically, though, we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation (or part of the investigation). Some have already proposed this possibility, while others have summarily dismissed it. As always, please do not dismiss any theory until it has been thoroughly debunked. And whatever theory you personally believe, try to debunk your own theory; many hoax investigators are still not doing this.
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS :lol: ), etc.
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
"the elephant in the room" is what I meant with the "big elephant in the room". lolol/ Thanks for the correct saying. bearhug And this trial is already playing to media's sensationalism with the fake photo and the fake audio. There are so many other supposed real news stories that had the same amount of sensationalism but unfortunately people usually did not pick up on it because they believed the story as truth. I really pray Michael comes back with the loudest BAM that makes the world quiet for a second for the sheer volume of the sound makes everyone humble because Lord knows, that is what is needed in this day and age.
Geez, this is the worse time to have a slower computer. Ah well. So I wasn't able to view any of the trial. I'm hoping there will be some clips posted on youtube soon so I can review. From what I've read and seen and heard thus far, these are my observations.
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
2) Audio: I think this could be him simply acting. If it is him, I'm liking the lower voice but it does hurt to hear him that way. However, great acting! Or it is not him at all. In any event, I don't know how this can be used as evidence without any proof of it being him.
3) Media: A full on tabloid. Their behavior towards MJ pre and post June 25th is proof of this and I think this trial will be the epitome of that. Truly sick.
4) Possible Elephant: If there was a stuff elephant in the room, then this could be a nice way to imply that this whole trial will be turned into a circus (media circus). It also points to the elephants that were there at the memorial from the Greatest Show On Earth which could hold a double meaning that this trial will be the greatest show on earth because it will be shown to everyone on TV like a show. In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
Well that's it for now. I'm sad that I cannot view and study in real time nor barely can research it due to my computer issues as of late but thanks for the updates guys!
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
As for the 'Dead MJ in hospital' pic- why are the sides blurred and gray?! Why is this picture so grainy when we live in the world of iPhones that take hi quality pictures? And most importantly- WHO THE HELL CHOPPED OFF MJ'S LEGS?!?!
Is it a dummy? I just don't understand! I knew this would happen though, its too predictable that the pictures will of course be hard to make out. And yet, I haven't heard any suspicion about the picture on hln. I've been watching all day. Why are we the only ones who question these type of things?
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
Was this a pic that the police took? Is this really the pic shown in court because I could barely see it on my TV.
Do the pictures look like the staged (photoshopped) ambulance picture? The hair difference could be because he had no wig on or he did have a wig on but changed it from curly to straight before he staged the photo using himself or it may be a wax dummy. They all look staged to me and a wax dummy was used.
[/quot
1- what´s on with the wirst
2- what´s on with Michael legs...or...where are Michael´s legs?
3- looks like an image taken from a video camera
4- reminds me of the "leaf pattern" face
[/font][/font]
Another weird thing about this photo is the stretcher appears to be at the very lowest (closest to the ground) setting. I find that odd. It is noteworthy to mention that it is not a collapsible stretcher.
The longer I look at this pic, the more apparent it is to me that the legs appear to be shortened or missing entirely
I have this question.. CM got all that propofol in the month of April, but he was not hired to be doctor until May. So who was he buying all this propofol for? Not Michael's doctor yet. Remember AEG didn't do the "DEAL" until May.
Back to propofol, the common name there is KLEIN.
the process of linguistic change in which a content word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_word) changes to a function word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_word) or a grammatical affix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affix) is depicted as a cline of grammaticalisation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cline_%28linguistics%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cline_%28linguistics%29)
And back to the photo. Shouldn´t exhibits be shown numbered and unaltered?Normally the evidence or exhibits would be numbered however the pic that the DA used as his background for his presentation does not qualify as evidence per the judges words before the opening statements.
Judge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.
This is so the defense can plant reasonable doubt that it wasn't Murray who caused MJ's death. If another doc was giving him drugs prior to Murray taking care of MJ and Murray wasn't aware of that then he may be found not responsible, NOT GUILTY.QuoteChernoff will present an addiction specialist, who will testify DR. ARNOLD KLEIN ADDICTED MICHAEL JACKSON TO DEMEROL.I've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement.
And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substanceAt the time when Murray purchased the Propofol is was not illegal nor was it considered a controlled substance. I found info on this and posted it in one of the other levels. I will look for the info later. What I found said that all it took to get the Propofol was a licensed Dr. or a script. /cook/
This morning gave me the perfect opening statement (although significantly less formal then you might expect). Thank you TMZ for this quote:QuoteSources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
In order to prove a sting court you would have to prove that someone were acting differently because they believe MJ is dead then they would if he were alive.
The non-believer fans are greatly the ones being caught in the trap that is visible thus far. They are acting differently by believing the media reports about Michael, calling for the prosecution of a man due to a visceral reaction fueled by reports they heard on the news but never looked into with an open mind, they are blaming any inconsistencies in logic presented in the media on greed and selfishness displayed by the Jackson Family rather then giving them the benefit of the doubt.
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
Reminds me of what Judge Michael Pastor said at the end about not discussing it with anyone and not going on any social media sties or forums.
P.S Welcome CaptainEO, enjoying the trial so far?
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
AndreaOh man! Love it! :lol:
Larry King was on HLN a few minutes ago and said he'd met Michael a few times but he never appeared on Larry's show. Then he looked into the camera for a few seconds and his eyes screamed "Dave Dave!" to me. LOL.
Looking4truthThat’s so good! Blindness is like a veil over the eyes. We're amazed the non-believer fans can't see what we are seeing. They have the same access as us! The human brain is funny that way. It's seems people could be manipulated to believe almost anything with the right story-telling and props.
In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
AndreaIn a way it is manipulating minds just like the coverage for 911 pounded the official story into our brains with the graphic images. This time for good and not evil.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
I agree it seemed like real emotion about something, don't know what though but he just broke down, even though he is playing a role, the feelings are real, like when people say things about him, to him, the spotlight is on him, if I was him and were playing a role I'd probably break down too...
@CaptainEO no pic or video with CM and MJ...you would think there would be at least one, but I think it's because Murray is representing MJ in the trial so MJ doesn't want us to see them as two separate entities or maybe he wants us to think he is really literally Murray, don't know though.
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
I agree it seemed like real emotion about something, don't know what though but he just broke down, even though he is playing a role, the feelings are real, like when people say things about him, to him, the spotlight is on him, if I was him and were playing a role I'd probably break down too...
@CaptainEO no pic or video with CM and MJ...you would think there would be at least one, but I think it's because Murray is representing MJ in the trial so MJ doesn't want us to see them as two separate entities or maybe he wants us to think he is really literally Murray, don't know though.
I agree, I had the feeling like he was feeling sorry for himself. He tried for a while to hold back the tears, but finally he couldn't. Maybe we should review what the lawyer was talking about when Conrad cried, it must have been something about what the lawyer said.
4 pages and Souza is not here yet?
Where are you hiding Sou geek/ ?
Come on, it's not the same without you :?.
MICHAEL JACKSON'S DEATH PHOTO
Frightening Intentions?
9/27/2011 1:05 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-main.jpg)
It seems the prosecution wanted to give the Michael Jackson death photo a murky, gritty treatment before it was presented in court this morning -- because it was clearly touched up to look as daunting as possible.
It appears the photo is NOT the original pic -- because now it includes a tattered border, a morgue-esque green hue ... and the word "Homicide" printed over MJ's body in a grainy, police-style font.
The prosecution used the photo as the background for a slide-show presentation in court.
Compare the pic to a cleaned up version of the photo (below) -- is the murky photo more likely to shake the jury?
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)
We gotta ask ...
Prosecution's image
Misleading 63%
Fair 37%
Total Votes: 55,264
:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
:idea: Two paramedics pictured, as we discovered already, one white, one black. Neither paramedic in the ambulance pic was black so what's that all about?
:idea: Stretcher pic: He's not bald, doesn't look old, or emaciated, and certainly not like a cancer patient. He looks exactly like Michael Jackson. What's he wearing? It appears to have sleeves. It is a hospital snuggy? He appears to be wearing what might be a watch. Where is the endo-tracheal tube? The autopsy states it is still present and in place. It is certainly present in the ambulance pic. Who captioned it "Homicide"? It's a manslaughter trial.
:idea: Chernoff: in regards to MJ, "He did an act... he did an act" repetitively stressed.
:idea: Chernoff: in regards to helping the jury understand the evidence, "We will provide you The Sign." Love it. Little TS shout out there.
Hey guys! I’m still here and I still believe. I’m not going anywhere. But I don’t really get on here like before because the forum is soooooo damn slow! I mean no insult to Souza or Mo. I just wish that it was as fast as it was when we had the old version. I like the new look and everything else that has been done but it takes forever for pages to load. I would say that it’s my computer but I don’t have this problem anywhere else that I go on the internet. *sigh*
And back to the photo. Shouldn´t exhibits be shown numbered and unaltered?Normally the evidence or exhibits would be numbered however the pic that the DA used as his background for his presentation does not qualify as evidence per the judges words before the opening statements.
From my earlier post.QuoteJudge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.This is so the defense can plant reasonable doubt that it wasn't Murray who caused MJ's death. If another doc was giving him drugs prior to Murray taking care of MJ and Murray wasn't aware of that then he may be found not responsible, NOT GUILTY.QuoteI've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement..And back to the photo. Shouldn´t exhibits be shown numbered and unaltered?Normally the evidence or exhibits would be numbered however the pic that the DA used as his background for his presentation does not qualify as evidence per the judges words before the opening statements.
From my earlier post.QuoteJudge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.This is so the defense can plant reasonable doubt that it wasn't Murray who caused MJ's death. If another doc was giving him drugs prior to Murray taking care of MJ and Murray wasn't aware of that then he may be found not responsible, NOT GUILTY.QuoteChernoff will present an addiction specialist, who will testify DR. ARNOLD KLEIN ADDICTED MICHAEL JACKSON TO DEMEROL.I've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement.And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substanceAt the time when Murray purchased the Propofol is was not illegal nor was it considered a controlled substance. I found info on this and posted it in one of the other levels. I will look for the info later. What I found said that all it took to get the Propofol was a licensed Dr. or a script. /cook/And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substanceAt the time when Murray purchased the Propofol is was not illegal nor was it considered a controlled substance. I found info on this and posted it in one of the other levels. I will look for the info later. What I found said that all it took to get the Propofol was a licensed Dr. or a script. /cook/
That tape got me thinking about many scenarios...one of them is the bizarre idea of michael being pushed to say those words, being drugged by force. The first word is introduced by another person and michael enrolles with the rest, which seems to be scripted, a text.
I´ve heard people after dental surgery who talks that way, also people who suffered an Ictus, people who took heroin and people talking in their sleep.
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
This morning gave me the perfect opening statement (although significantly less formal then you might expect). Thank you TMZ for this quote:QuoteSources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Probably, but they did make objections to other things and this was complete hearsay. Opening statements or not.
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Probably, but they did make objections to other things and this was complete hearsay. Opening statements or not.
I agree for the most part with bec and partially with Imconvinced, I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.
There was a huge contrast in those opening statements that I noticed. The prosecution was overall convincing (not to us, but you get me), had a well layed out story and the DA was well spoken and handsome. It has been scientifically proven that you can convince people more easily if you are handsome and well spoken. Then we have short, less handsome and stuttering Ed.
Be honest here: did you all follow him as well as the DA? I saw in chat how people clicked away and said it was too boring to look at. I agree, but that doesn't mean that he didn't have a convincing story. I was very tired at the moment, so I will have to listen to his statement again, but as I remember, Ed tried to explain how propofol works and how Murray couldn't have killed Michael the way the prosecution want to believe you. He said the word 'science' more than once, making a point that you should look at the actual scientific evidence, instead of just the emotional 'Murray killed a drug addict who needed help, he was only 50 years old, look at him laying there on that trolley" kind of talk.
As for the picture that was shown: that's a BS picture. Why is the quality so bad? Looks like it's 50 years old. Where are his legs? We all know Mike has stelts, did they cut them off? He probably posed for it, before they photoshopped it to make it look like this. If you are worried about this picture, I really don't get how you made it this far, because I have seen way worse things.
That tape recording is epic. It reminded me of that interview in (I think) '89 where Mike talks about that intro for 'I just can't stop loving you'. Where he said he recorded that when he was in bed. Like Jermaine said in his book, MJ tape recorded almost everything, I bet he recorded this himself too. Is it really him? Yes I think it is and I wonder how many times he had to start again because he couldn't stop laughing.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:
:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
Okay, I will be back after reviewing/reading the opening statements again, plus the testimonies. I did love Kenny's though, he's such a sweet guy. And he said so many interesting things about the reasons Michael wanted to do this and how he cancelled everything else to be able to be a part of this. I will get back on that later as well.
4 pages and Souza is not here yet?
Where are you hiding Sou geek/ ?
Come on, it's not the same without you :? .
LOL, here I am. I am sorry, but I have to split myself in 3 parts lately. The trial, the forum and something else I am trying to read up on. Besides that, I have to sleep, eat and work as well. So that's why I am a little late.
@TS: You are going to defend the murder theory again? lolol/ You brave man! Or do you like it being kicked in the ass? Because I will be standing right behind you with my boots! Nice hint on the 777 bottles of propofol by the way, since that was a huge part of the prosecution's opening statements. I was singing to myself "777 bottles of propofol on the ground, 777 bottles of prop'... etc. Didn't make it to the end though, which was Ed's fault. Man, how boring is he? Poor Murray, I would have fired him and hired Mesereau.
But anyways. Since you yourself kinda said already that this is a kangaroo court (which means nothing more than HOAX court), you will be having a hard time with me while defending your murder theory. So now is the time to back down, otherwise: let the battle begin! lolol/
I agree for the most part with bec and partially with Imconvinced, I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.
The reason I don't believe the sting is against the DA/prosecution team, is because for a personal vendetta, Mike (as far as I am aware) did not have any problems/issues with this team. Besides that, if this sting would be against the prosecution and they would be called out as a team wanting to hang an innocent man by all means, you can prosecute them and that's it. It will not change the system in my opinion, because the media will be all over it and make sure you will think this is a one time event. So I don't see the point in that.
On the other hand, if you have all parties involved, except the media (and of course as bec pointed out some or maybe even most of the people in the courtroom doing their regular jobs) and they will present a case that is full of shit, like we have been seeing for 2+ years now, and the media will not do their homework and trying to convince you of Murray's guilt by siding with the prosecution in spite of evidence that Murray is innocent, you will be able to make a point. It is the media that plants the idea in your head whether or not someone is guilty. I know that they mostly just cover high profile cases, but still they are able through these cases to give the viewers a general idea of how to decide whether or not a person is guilty. Those viewers will eventually turn up as jurors in a case and will have that printed in their minds. It is not about the real evidence, it is about the way they present a case. If you tell a lie big enough, the public will believe it.
In my opinion, the only reason Mike won in 2005, was because he had a lawyer that was so damn good, that the jury had no other choice than to find him not guilty. If he had Ed Chernoff as a lawyer, he would have been a dead man. NOT because he was guilty, but because he wouldn't have a lawyer that could make the jury see that the prosecution was lying.
There was a huge contrast in those opening statements that I noticed. The prosecution was overall convincing (not to us, but you get me), had a well layed out story and the DA was well spoken and handsome. It has been scientifically proven that you can convince people more easily if you are handsome and well spoken. Then we have short, less handsome and stuttering Ed. Be honest here: did you all follow him as well as the DA? I saw in chat how people clicked away and said it was too boring to look at. I agree, but that doesn't mean that he didn't have a convincing story. I was very tired at the moment, so I will have to listen to his statement again, but as I remember, Ed tried to explain how propofol works and how Murray couldn't have killed Michael the way the prosecution want to believe you. He said the word 'science' more than once, making a point that you should look at the actual scientific evidence, instead of just the emotional 'Murray killed a drug addict who needed help, he was only 50 years old, look at him laying there on that trolley" kind of talk. Next to that, he even gave a hint that MJ isn't dead at all, by saying he first swallowed 8 pills that could take 6 people out, before he injected/swallowed the propofol. If he was out, how could he have taken the fatal dose of propofol? He would have been asleep for hours. But the public will side with the prosecution, because they will play with your emotions, just like the media does. MJ is the poor little victim, Murray is the doctor from hell, like Gavin was the poor little victim in 2005, and MJ the babysitter from hell. But Sneddon was darn ugly and stupid as well, so luckily their plan didn't work back then. But you can see how the media backed Sneddon even more when they realized they had a huge lion to fight (Mesereau).
It's people like Diane Demon, Nancy Disgrace and all other filthy reporters, that should be the target of the sting. They will plant the "Murray is guilty" verdict in the heads of the jurors. Those jurors DO watch the coverage of the case at night, there is no escape. The media doesn't search for evidence, they will try to dig up dirt on Murray to show you. Stuff that wouldn't be allowed in court, but what can be shown on TV. I always think of the movie 'A Time To Kill' where Matthew (the lawyer) says things in court he is not allowed to. He gets slapped for it, but he doesn't care, because he SAID it and the jury HEARD it. It is printed in their minds, even though they may not take it into consideration for the verdict, but he knows they will. That is exactly what the media does. Whatever they say about Murray, the jury may not take it into consideration for the verdict, but the will, because they HEARD it. And it takes a damn good lawyer to 'deprogram' the jury. Not everyone is rich enough to pay for their own 'Tom Mesereau' and that is why IMO many innocent people are condemned, in spite of strong evidence that they are innocent.
As for the picture that was shown: that's a BS picture. Why is the quality so bad? Looks like it's 50 years old. Where are his legs? We all know Mike has stelts, did they cut them off? He probably posed for it, before they photoshopped it to make it look like this. If you are worried about this picture, I really don't get how you made it this far, because I have seen way worse things. TMZ pointed out how the prosecution is working on the public's emotion:QuoteMICHAEL JACKSON'S DEATH PHOTO
Frightening Intentions?
9/27/2011 1:05 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-main.jpg)
It seems the prosecution wanted to give the Michael Jackson death photo a murky, gritty treatment before it was presented in court this morning -- because it was clearly touched up to look as daunting as possible.
It appears the photo is NOT the original pic -- because now it includes a tattered border, a morgue-esque green hue ... and the word "Homicide" printed over MJ's body in a grainy, police-style font.
The prosecution used the photo as the background for a slide-show presentation in court.
Compare the pic to a cleaned up version of the photo (below) -- is the murky photo more likely to shake the jury?
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)
We gotta ask ...
Prosecution's image
Misleading 63%
Fair 37%
Total Votes: 55,264
That tape recording is epic. It reminded me of that interview in (I think) '89 where Mike talks about that intro for 'I just can't stop loving you'. Where he said he recorded that when he was in bed. Like Jermaine said in his book, MJ tape recorded almost everything, I bet he recorded this himself too. Is it really him? Yes I think it is and I wonder how many times he had to start again because he couldn't stop laughing.
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray. Also the talk of the '777 bottles of propofol' was interesting, since TS clearly wanted to point that out. (this is by the way not relevant. Even if Murray ordered that much, you still have to prove that he injected it all into MJ, which seems HIGHLY unlikely, since a waaaaaaay smaller dose would be lethal already.:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
Again the prosecution playing with the jury/public. As Imconvinced figured out, it's not even required to be board certified. So it's merely to put Murray in a bad light. People will think he's not a doctor, but this information doesn't say that. Manipulation.:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol::idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
Ding dong again!:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
Interesting, I missed that. Need to rewatch.:idea: Two paramedics pictured, as we discovered already, one white, one black. Neither paramedic in the ambulance pic was black so what's that all about?
There allegedly was a third, because someone had to drive. Do we know who that was? I guess we will find out later, but that might be something to keep an eye on.:idea: Stretcher pic: He's not bald, doesn't look old, or emaciated, and certainly not like a cancer patient. He looks exactly like Michael Jackson. What's he wearing? It appears to have sleeves. It is a hospital snuggy? He appears to be wearing what might be a watch. Where is the endo-tracheal tube? The autopsy states it is still present and in place. It is certainly present in the ambulance pic. Who captioned it "Homicide"? It's a manslaughter trial.
I don't see the tube either, so if this picture was taken in the hospital, I would like to know who got it out and put it back in for the coroner (which is mission impossible with a corpse by the way. Even if you would get it back in, there would be terrible damage to the throat.):idea: Chernoff: in regards to MJ, "He did an act... he did an act" repetitively stressed.
Probably because he's an ACTor. :lol::idea: Chernoff: in regards to helping the jury understand the evidence, "We will provide you The Sign." Love it. Little TS shout out there.
Damn, I missed that too. Thanks for the shout out TS. ;)
Okay, I will be back after reviewing/reading the opening statements again, plus the testimonies. I did love Kenny's though, he's such a sweet guy. And he said so many interesting things about the reasons Michael wanted to do this and how he cancelled everything else to be able to be a part of this. I will get back on that later as well.
ps. My guess for level 7: I think the trial will indeed end somewhere around or before 10/28 (which is exactly 2 years after TII) and my guess is that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween) because that date will be EXACTLY 333 weeks after June 13, 2005, plus the obvious: It's Halloween. Court will not be closed: http://www.courts.ca.gov/holidays.htm (http://www.courts.ca.gov/holidays.htm) I think level 7 will be about guessing/discussing the verdict.
Is it just me or did the body language of Paul Gongaware seem a little off? A lot of hand gestures and strange facial expressions that didn't seem to fit with his words.
@bec I am hoping we will get more of this type of scenario, but I don't really think that if we do it will be as blatant. Not to start with anyway!
Thanks go to TNZ on twitter
(http://truenewszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/playroom.jpg)
According to Pearl Jr there was a toy elephant in the courtroom...wonder where it was?QuotePearljr (http://twitter.com/#%21/Pearljr) Pearljr There is a toy elephant in the courtroom 6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
In order to prove a sting court you would have to prove that someone were acting differently because they believe MJ is dead then they would if he were alive.
The non-believer fans are greatly the ones being caught in the trap that is visible thus far. They are acting differently by believing the media reports about Michael, calling for the prosecution of a man due to a visceral reaction fueled by reports they heard on the news but never looked into with an open mind, they are blaming any inconsistencies in logic presented in the media on greed and selfishness displayed by the Jackson Family rather then giving them the benefit of the doubt.
What I see all the time and I need to say this is- it's not the media alone, it's almost the whole Jackson family who said repeatedly Michael was murdered, he's dead. If only media lies, then why does the family repeatedly say he was murdered? It's NOT the media. The family says this. If it's to prove that media lies, then why also the family? The media has to be exposed as liars, not the family. And so far the family says he was murdered. Even if you don't read a single paper or don't have a TV in your home, you read La Toya and Jermaine's books where they say he was murdered.
People say all the time that they believe what media tells them. But in fact it's the Jackson family who says he's dead and was murdered all the time. If you can find a logical and possible explanation please tell me, because the problem is not about the media for me. But the FAMILY.
The non-believers don't believe the media, but the family.
I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray.The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.The tape recording was not being introduced as evidence so no objection was needed. The tape was played during the DA's opening statements and was a part of their over view of what they were going to present. That was a strategic move on their part to plant a scary slurring image of MJ in the jurys minds.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
Ding dong again!Murray's email to the Insurer was a response to their questioning MJ's health based on what they were reading in the news. Murray was reasurring the insurance company that MJ is well and the news reports about his health is fallacious. smiley_spider
Hello ALL... I'm not sure if this is the right thread to mention the new aspect I can add to this all. I haven't been here in a long time. Just wanted to give you my 2 cents. After one opens their 3rd eye shit gets even more disturbing!! I can see auras within any kinda media. And not seeing one around Mike on that stretcher saddens me. No aura= death. HOWEVER there are many overlays in that pic. So eye may be getting a false reading. That pic looks to be altered. Now IDK if Mike went to the extent of making sure there are no auras in "evidence" But um this is NOT GOOD at ALL! And from the looks of Dr Murray's aura. He's no clever "actor" in this... his ass is cloudy, but, cloudy is better than having a muddy aura. Well there's my 2 cents. Sorry if this dampens things. But Mike wanted up to see through the veils and eye can more than EVER. ♥♥♥ CAN ANYONE ELSE SEE AURAS?? If so let's team up and interpret our findings...♥♥♥
In truth I cannot believe that this kind of 'evidence' to have any impact on people in this forum that already have time here, i can understand it by someone who did not know the hoax and however a person with minimal knowledge of photographing knows that that photo is a mounting and very poorly done, i know nothing about these things and immediately i realized, if this is kind of things that we're going to see in the coming weeks, this is going to be very fun
or this recording: WTF??
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XJFoH2MwLY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
God bless you, Sarahli, for taking that screenshot.
I missed it since I could not spend the whole time online.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/gatsby6306/blowingkisslargesmiley.gif)
And i i dare to say that these asshole
( i am referring to the media )perhaps suspect that MJ is alive but do not dare to say anything
I've never seen a brown elephant before only grey. It also looks like a piece of bs... :lol:
Souza, the forum is working great today, thanks a million! /bravo/
I got to watch pretty much everything so far, and really felt like the witnesses were not following any script but their own knowledge. But the questions were about all the legal contract issues signing on Murray, and Michael Amir Williams time-line and security details. Again they were ignoring the "elephant" in the room, other inconsistancies showing it is all a hoax. I believe MJ set up EVERY conceivable situation detail so that their testimony would be as real as possible. MAW's emotion on the 25th seems real with all the little panicy phonecalls.
Just 2 things kinda caught my attention. MAW said everything was normal at midnight when they returned to the house after rehearsal and they carried in a bunch of gifts from fans. But according to LoToya she said fans said MJ didn't chat with fans like normal and there were extra bodygaurds than normal. Someone's lying there.
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
Oh wow just now saw the cleaned up version of the pic and there's still no aura!!! :'(
I've never seen a brown elephant before only grey. It also looks like a piece of bs... :lol:
Souza, the forum is working great today, thanks a million! /bravo/
I got to watch pretty much everything so far, and really felt like the witnesses were not following any script but their own knowledge. But the questions were about all the legal contract issues signing on Murray, and Michael Amir Williams time-line and security details. Again they were ignoring the "elephant" in the room, other inconsistancies showing it is all a hoax. I believe MJ set up EVERY conceivable situation detail so that their testimony would be as real as possible. MAW's emotion on the 25th seems real with all the little panicy phonecalls.
Just 2 things kinda caught my attention. MAW said everything was normal at midnight when they returned to the house after rehearsal and they carried in a bunch of gifts from fans. But according to LoToya she said fans said MJ didn't chat with fans like normal and there were extra bodygaurds than normal. Someone's lying there.
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
MAW didn't record that. You see CM called MAW on June 25 at 12:13 pm and left him a voice msg,(he said, "please call me back, thank you")because MAW didn't pick up the phone. It's a very common thing in Iphones. Then MAW called him back and they talked for about 35 seconds. So then he recorded this voice msg on camera to prove to the Police that it WAS actually a msg from his iphone. But the weird thing is that WHY would police ask him to record the VIDEO of this msg, when MAW could simply show the police his phone, without any videos.
How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing.
The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:
During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
Did anyone tried calling the numbers they showed in court today?i was thinking the same thing about the numbers being shown,i can understand the name being shown,but not the number.even on Judge Judy they block this kind of stuff out,and thats a cival court,this is criminal court.only certain eyes can pick these kind of things out,the believers.aren't we so lucky, lolol/
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
And why would the prosecutor try to prove that Michael was healthy? Shouldn't they try to prove the opposite?@PureLove-The point is the prosecution is saying that on June 23 and June 24 Michael was healthy, coherant, excited for the Illusion, etc. The DA's point is MJ wouldn't have took his own life because he had alot to look forward to. The DA is trying to prove that Murray is the reason why MJ is dead because he gave him all those drugs. No they wouldn't try to prove the opposite because then they wouldn't even have to prosecute anyone if MJ killed himself.
I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing. The DA is doing his job and going through the motions but he is not in on it. He is really thinking he has a case.
The defense most likely knows, well at least Murray does. The judge is also someone who is under investigation. The judge is someone who hands down a verdict so considering what TS said about that...QuoteWe also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray.The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.The tape recording was not being introduced as evidence so no objection was needed. The tape was played during the DA's opening statements and was a part of their over view of what they were going to present. That was a strategic move on their part to plant a scary slurring image of MJ in the jurys minds.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.Ding dong again!Murray's email to the Insurer was a response to their questioning MJ's health based on what they were reading in the news. Murray was reasurring the insurance company that MJ is well and the news reports about his health is fallacious. smiley_spider
QuoteAnd why would the prosecutor try to prove that Michael was healthy? Shouldn't they try to prove the opposite?@PureLove-The point is the prosecution is saying that on June 23 and June 24 Michael was healthy, coherant, excited for the Illusion, etc. The DA's point is MJ wouldn't have took his own life because he had alot to look forward to. The DA is trying to prove that Murray is the reason why MJ is dead because he gave him all those drugs. No they wouldn't try to prove the opposite because then they wouldn't even have to prosecute anyone if MJ killed himself.
DAAAAAAAAAMN!!!! Is anyone watching HLN with Raymone Bain?!
She's letting them know!
first she says Rabbi Schmuley shouldn't even be interviewed because his relationship with Mike ending ugly!
then she says the trial is a JOKE and they are wasting tax payers money. Jane Valdez cut her off and said "We'll be right back!!" and Jane's face was like this :shock:
ahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
for those losing hope DONT give up just yet.
P.s. I don't recall lmfao
Hey Purelove, you remember the MJ FB video 'He's BAD, He's Back'
HLN, on Nancy Grace they showed a clip from the NASDAQ countdown
afraid/
:lol:
Also (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
Did anyone tried calling the numbers they showed in court today?i was thinking the same thing about the numbers being shown,i can understand the name being shown,but not the number.even on Judge Judy they block this kind of stuff out,and thats a cival court,this is criminal court.only certain eyes can pick these kind of things out,the believers.aren't we so lucky, lolol/
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
Assistant: I ain't got yo' damn KEYS!
Randy: Yes, you do! I saw you go in through the Front door and sneak out the Back door!
Assistant: How do you know that?
Randy: 'cause I was Watchin'!!!
DEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT…………….
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Oh my, I am watching CNN now and the reporters say how MJ was posing as if he were asleep and that when Murray left the room, he quickly got the Propofol and then killed himself. Have they not heard that Chernoff said that he allegedly had swallowed 8 2mg pills of lorazepam which is enough to take 6 people down? And how they will prove that scientifically during the trial? And if they heard that, why aren't they questioning the propofol at all, since it would not have been needed after 16 mg of lorazepam?
Anyways, I am annoyed by the media coverage, are they stupid or something?
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
Controversies and Other Issueshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California)
Controversy was attached to the seal from the beginning. During the 1849 Constitutional Convention debate on the design of the seal, the bear was added to satisfy Major J.R. Snyder and the men of the Bear Flag Revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic), which freed California from Mexican rule in 1846. This addition was objected to by native Californio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californio) Mariano Guadalupe Vallejo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariano_Guadalupe_Vallejo), former head of the Mexican military in California, but a friend of the United States. He introduced an amendment to remove the bear, or, if it were to remain, that it be held fast by a vaquero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaquero)'s lasso. The amendment failed.[31]
In February 1850, the Daily Alta California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Alta_California) of San Francisco accused Lyon of taking the $1000 appropriated to him by the convention for the purpose of securing a die and press, but giving a marred design, a die sunk too shallow, and an insufficiently powerful press for the job in return. The editorial continued that Lyon "received his money out of the civil fund, and is now conveying it to the sylvan retreats of Lyonsdale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyonsdale,_New_York)" and quite vehemently stated that Lyon had "no right or title to the honor of either designing or executing the seal any more than the Kha[n] of Tartary" while still protecting the anonymity of Garnett.[32]
Controversy arose again in 1899 with an article in the San Francisco Chronicle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Chronicle) that claimed that Garnett's design was not original, but in fact based upon the seal of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Odd_Fellows)' California Lodge No. 1, with a few changes.[33] This article was soon followed by a defense of the originality of the design written by Major Garnett's brother, Louis A. Garnett, who claimed that the timing of the creation of and differences between the two seals made it impossible for the state seal to have been based on the lodge seal.[34] Despite this, the Grand Lodge of California continues to make this claim,[35] and an I.O.O.F. historian has suggested that perhaps Garnett in fact designed both seals.[36]
In 1994, after seeing Minerva and Medusa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa) on the large seal at the west steps of the State Capitol, Pastor Margo Brown called it "an affront to women and Christian faith." "I was shocked and amazed to see a woman [Minerva] in a man's uniform," the Sacramento Bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Bee) reported her saying, "And there was a picture of Medusa with snakes on her head. I'm very proud of my gender and women need to be portrayed in a better light." She lead a crusade at the Capitol to call for a redesign of the seal, but the seal remains unchanged.[37]
In 2001, the Oakland Tribune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Tribune) printed a letter to the editor with a light-hearted suggestion of new imagery for the seal. The writer proposed replacing the sailing ships with Japanese car carriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_carrier#Car_carriers), the wheat and grape vine with Central Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)) subdivisions, obscuring the Sierra Nevada with smog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog), and giving California a new motto more appropriate for the time: "I have lost it."[38]
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
badkolo (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=profile;u=123)
i swear i saw the lady who swore in kenny have a toy rabbit in her hand
Oh my, I am watching CNN now and the reporters say how MJ was posing as if he were asleep and that when Murray left the room, he quickly got the Propofol and then killed himself. Have they not heard that Chernoff said that he allegedly had swallowed 8 2mg pills of lorazepam which is enough to take 6 people down? And how they will prove that scientifically during the trial? And if they heard that, why aren't they questioning the propofol at all, since it would not have been needed after 16 mg of lorazepam?
Anyways, I am annoyed by the media coverage, are they stupid or something?
@Souza....nice post on the California seal.....it's one star too many. I guess the extra star must be for Michael ;)
@Souza....nice post on the California seal.....it's one star too many. I guess the extra star must be for Michael ;)
I'd like to go back to the witness that was interviewed on the street. It was a woman that said she was a witness for Murray.....his assistant. I was looking around for witness guidelines and found an Orange County site that mentions a witness should not discuss the case in public areas etc.......
Blessings......
- "Do not discuss the case with any other witness or juror. Avoid discussing the case in public areas such as elevators, hallways, or the cafeteria – jurors or other witnesses may be present."http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=353 (http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=353)
I am have a hard time even wrapping my brain around this trial. I feel like it's for the public's sake, not ours. We know he's alive. We have been riding this wave for over 2 years. BeTheChange said it perfectly:"And we...the 'believers', the 'chosen ones', the 'true fans'...whatever you wanna call us...we got to see the master at work, in the most intimate of ways."
The trial is the continuation of This Is It.....the public is blind to it all, however. Many people don't even know it's going on. Why? Where have they been? I think he will BAM, and people will be like....."oh, yeah, I figured as much....Michael staging his own death....yada yada yada...." They will have completely missed the point. Ok....this post is freaking out....all on it's own......first the font, then spacebar, then delete.....all are doing wrong things.......I think it's possessed /cook/
The trial is a complete circus! After watching Majestic on Dr. Drew tonight...I'm convinced that Mike is enjoying this. Like literally kicking back, throwing popcorn in the air type of enjoyment. And, if so, he deserves to be entertained.
The trial is a complete circus! After watching Majestic on Dr. Drew tonight...I'm convinced that Mike is enjoying this. Like literally kicking back, throwing popcorn in the air type of enjoyment. And, if so, he deserves to be entertained.
The 2 sentences I made bold and underlined made me think of the original Thriller video - smiley_spider - when MJ sits in the theater enjoying the movie and eating his popcorn with a HUGE smile! L.O.V.E.
So true!@Souza....nice post on the California seal.....it's one star too many. I guess the extra star must be for Michael ;)
Interesting thought. MJ has lived in California and stayed there. He has contributed so much to the state that he deserves a star. michael-jackson/
Souza
Oh my, I am watching CNN now and the reporters say how MJ was posing as if he were asleep and that when Murray left the room, he quickly got the Propofol and then killed himself.
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing. The DA is doing his job and going through the motions but he is not in on it. He is really thinking he has a case.
The trial is needed for the simple reason that the media should have an excuse to investigate. If he only faked his death, and no foul play was involved, there would be nothing to question. The family says he's dead, so that's it. But as soon as it is alleged that he was killed/murdered, the media would have an excuse to investigate the case and see the inconsistencies. But still they don't, not even when an innocent man is on trial. So for a 'sting' against the media, a trial IS needed in my opinion. But as I explained later on, I think the real sting is against certain people/organisations behind the curtain, and that this trial is also partly meant as a distraction, hence why the focus is only on Murray.
The defense most likely knows, well at least Murray does. The judge is also someone who is under investigation. The judge is someone who hands down a verdict so considering what TS said about that...QuoteWe also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
The judge is in on it. He is the one setting the oh so 'coincidental' dates. Also, and I said that back in the other thread about sting vs. hoax: MJ was malicious prosecuted by the SB prosecution, not the LA prosecution. There is corruption everywhere, and only targeting this one court doesn't make sense. You might catch a judge and a DA, but you won't expose all the rest of the corrupt bunch.
And we do not know if the jury is real. They could be, but they could also have been picked from the first pool like I explained earlier. They had 4 months to screen them and (if necessary) contract them. Like TS says: Kangaroo court, or hoax court, which means the verdict is already known. That means the jury already have orders about their verdict.
Also (and I have mentioned this before as well) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him with many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray.The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
If we go by your theory of sting court against DA (as well as others), then it would also be very likely (if he were dirty) that he would search the net all over for dirt on Murray, just like Sneddon did. Just type in 'Michael Jackson death' or 'Conrad Murray Court Case' and this forum will show up immediately. If he were dirty, he would have enough reson to know exactly what is said about the case as well, and I am sure he would have read about his middle name too. He can pull a BC in a second and as soon as he would have the confirmation on his real middle name, he would have smelled a rat. And let's not forget that the middle name is not the only obvious indication that this is a hoax. And this Walgren looks like a smart guy, so I don't buy it, that DA is definitely in on it.:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.
The tape recording was not being introduced as evidence so no objection was needed. The tape was played during the DA's opening statements and was a part of their over view of what they were going to present. That was a strategic move on their part to plant a scary slurring image of MJ in the jurys minds.
Oh, but there were other objections during the opening statements. I know they can't come up with evidence or arguments, but it's not like they are free to say whatever they want. And I watched TMZ live this afternoon, and I noticed that Harvey was also surprised that there was no objection to that from the prosecution, and he's a lawyer, so apparently it is very normal to object in opening statements, evidence or not. You can influence a jury with your statement, and that is what Chernoff did. From day one he said: Klein is the guilty one, not Murray, because Klein addicted MJ to Demerol (not propofol). BS! "Objection! Hearsay Your Honer!".:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
Kenny is not the only one who said Mike was in good spirits that day. He could have easily said "You will learn from several witnesses during the trial that Michael Jackson was fit and in good spirits the night before he died...". But instead of saying that, he decided the very hoaxy of the illusion. Coincidence? Maybe, but I happen not to believe in them.:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.Ding dong again!Murray's email to the Insurer was a response to their questioning MJ's health based on what they were reading in the news. Murray was reasurring the insurance company that MJ is well and the news reports about his health is fallacious. smiley_spider
Don't we all know that? Hahahahaha, he had to be healthy enough to at least not die. If anything, we know THAT for sure.
I am actually waiting for TS and his far-fetched murder theories. I agree on too many points with you to really have much satisfaction in challenging your statements, lol. I wanna kick some ass! TS???? Come play when you're done doing what you're doing. lolol/
Oh wow just now saw the cleaned up version of the pic and there's still no aura!!! :'(
OMG, he MUST be dead then... :?
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
100% respect and no tone intended, but are you from the US? Because that is not at all the case.
The DA could give a rip about pressure from anyone when it comes to victim's family and the public. They only bring cases they think they can win.
The single count of Manslaughter is strong piece of evidence supporting hoax court (DA=in on it). It's almost unheard of to bring a single count in a case like this.
I don't see the FBI Sting case being made on this thread, but what does trip me up is the 333 pages of FBI files released.
Now. How do we know there are 333 pages? Yes yes I know, do the math. But my point is, those documents were released via TMZ, correct? So who says all 333 pages are legit? One page off and it's no longer hoaxy. Who says any of them are legit? The DC is fake, the contract is fake, the will is fake. Why should we be so certain that the FBI files aren't fake?
Who painted it?
suspicious//
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../../images/seals.png)
I forgot to mention this one.
I think this proves hoax court beyond a reasonable doubt. It's undeniable. That's not the Official California State Seal. There is only one reason for this fake seal.
Did anyone tried calling the numbers they showed in court today?
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
Could be a painting. Possible.
Whatever it is, I think it's a lesson. This is a test. What do you assume about this pic? The prosecution hasn't said that it's Michael Jackson's corpse. This has just been eluded to so far and most are assuming from there.
What was this pic?
(http://www.media.desicolours.com/2009/june/michael-hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy.jpg)
Was this MJ sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber because he thought the bizarre notion that it would prevent him from aging? (immortality, just noticed that) Or did he just crawl inside and have his pic taken for fun and to fool people?
So what do you think the truth is about this pic?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
After watching the trial yesterday (I could only get the part with the head of Security) I get the impression that the trial is going towards the murder theory.
I don't believe Michael drank propofol.
I counted them 5 times... 32 in the one TMZ showed, 31 in the original. Also I searched for seals:
31 stars
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-czo2mnj9oIg/Tg33W3hWTnI/AAAAAAAAAF0/ueArwipmSEU/s1600/Great%2BSeal.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-czo2mnj9oIg/Tg33W3hWTnI/AAAAAAAAAF0/ueArwipmSEU/s1600/Great%2BSeal.jpg)
31 stars
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/57800/57872/57872_ca_seal_lg.gif (http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/57800/57872/57872_ca_seal_lg.gif)
31 stars and great photo of the seal
http://v10.lscache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/12736716.jpg (http://v10.lscache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/12736716.jpg)
Not even if changes had been made, in case there was a new state, it wouldn't change California's number. california was the 31st, anything that could come after it, it would be 32, 33. Are these stars really meaning California is the 31st state and therefore there are 31 stars in the official seal? Could they mean something else?
OMG! Majestic is on Dr. Drew right now and he said he wished Nancy Disgrace was still on Drew's show because he wanted to give her some words. He says I don't like Nancy. I forgot to add he said he didn't like the way she did MJ during the 2005 trial. rr/
Nancy Disgrace on her show kept calling MJ a junkie and a junkie for 20 years. Then every one of her guests (except Lou) she spoke to after that they kept referring to MJ as a junkie period.
I also heard about the whole possum and playing sleep defense. lmao
Souza-The difference of power between MJ and his family is MJ is the one who has the stigma of the pedo accusations. He is also the one who has been singing to the world on a level that TPTB don't want to ever let that happen again.
The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Sorry but I think you're wrong. The only thing that's clear in the upper left is 2011. On the first calendar in the first row on the left top-down, that are the dates from sunday. Sunday the third wasn't in May. All the dates and days fits in october, november and december. Either way it still isn't an explanation for the missing days.The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Sorry but I think you're wrong. The only thing that's clear in the upper left is 2011. On the first calendar in the first row on the left top-down, that are the dates from sunday. Sunday the third wasn't in May. All the dates and days fits in october, november and december. Either way it still isn't an explanation for the missing days.The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../../images/seals.png)
I forgot to mention this one.
I think this proves hoax court beyond a reasonable doubt. It's undeniable. That's not the Official California State Seal. There is only one reason for this fake seal.
Round one to Bec and her Hoax Court!
Also, look at the bear and the leaves at the bottom of the seal - it's mouth seems to be closed on the fake one and the 'leaves' appear to be missing on the fake, but are VERY familiar! Maybe it's just an optical illusion with one being a drawing and the other a photo ... maybe!
Joe was even photographed with a seal back in March 2011: :)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBRoe97OUtpKDQ1_EIjeC1zfAEWKrz9mBZ9ltqdXeHSll5sc67otRAPGC_)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/KC.jpg)
[. . .]
@Bianca, they're doubled up with 23rd and 24th - a common thing to do on a calendar to save starting a 6th line.
Something has just hit me light a bolt of lightening......
This experience is amazing....I have the trial going online, I have HLN news going....I am pausing back and forth and using mute. While the trial goes and goes, HLN takes breaks for commercials, then will interject from time to time their own thoughts/opinions.....making the public totally miss some of the trial points themselves. The press fills in their thoughts.....it's not much time, but they take away moments only to fill in the public with their words. The only way to really understand it is do both...you really get a sense of how the press manipulates/emphasizes things.....easily swaying public's opinions. I hope I am making sense...........
I wonder just how much the public missed during the 2005 trial......what a different account we would have of public opinion if we could have been inside the courtroom then. After experiencing this trial like this, I can totally see how easy it is for the media/press to sway opinions. We are experiencing HIStory...truly.
BTW....how would Michael have opened all that propofol...those little vials are not exactly screw top. Did I miss something?
Blessings
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
Something has just hit me light a bolt of lightening......
This experience is amazing....I have the trial going online, I have HLN news going....I am pausing back and forth and using mute. While the trial goes and goes, HLN takes breaks for commercials, then will interject from time to time their own thoughts/opinions.....making the public totally miss some of the trial points themselves. The press fills in their thoughts.....it's not much time, but they take away moments only to fill in the public with their words. The only way to really understand it is do both...you really get a sense of how the press manipulates/emphasizes things.....easily swaying public's opinions. I hope I am making sense...........
I wonder just how much the public missed during the 2005 trial......what a different account we would have of public opinion if we could have been inside the courtroom then. After experiencing this trial like this, I can totally see how easy it is for the media/press to sway opinions. We are experiencing HIStory...truly.
BTW....how would Michael have opened all that propofol...those little vials are not exactly screw top. Did I miss something?
Blessings
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html
This is a very interesting day so far, and we still get more!
Okay, some notes before it starts again:
According to the seal, I noticed that the judge but extra sympathy on exhibit 32. He mentioned it a lot, at least 5, or maybe even 7? lol times). The fake seal has 32 stars, which is not correct. Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV?? WTF?? Okay...
But the judge mentioned it a few times, then said that exhibit 31 (31 starts) was the actual thing (911 call in this case) and 32 was a copy, written by someone else (transcript for the jury). I thought that was pretty interesting.
When the DA asked Alvarez if June 24th (taking back MJ from rehearsal to house) was the last time he saw MJ alive, Alvarez responded: "That was the last time I saw him, sir." Without saying that it was the last time he saw him alive. Nervous? Maybe, but he could have just said "Yes, sir." which is a way easier and shorter phrase when you are nervous and want to get over with it. But after that of course he says that he saw him again on June 25th in that room when calling 911.
Another thing which made me laugh out loud, is how he described the IV bag. It was cut open and there was a Propofol bottle thrown into it upside down, and he saw a milky white substance on the bottom of the bag. He saw Murray performing CPR on the bed with one hand and said that when they transported MJ to the ground, that Murray went on to do mouth-to-mouth while Alvarez took over CPR and murray said: "This is the first time I do mouth-to-mouth, but I have to because he is my friend.
A review, real doctor against Murray:
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
So they can call it manslaughter, abandonement or whatever, but if this would really have happened, as they want us to believe, the media should get off of their lazy asses, and at least investigate if Murray is a doctor at all. Why is no one questioning that? Why can stuff like that be said in a court of law and taken for truth? And this could be a good thing for Murray, because it's more likely that MJ would have done that himself out of frustration, not knowing how to get the propofol in the IV bag properly, than that a licenced doctor would have done it that way. This day seems to be a good one for Connie so far.
Alvarez says he has been approached by the media to talk about the case, offered up to 500 grant, but he never did it. Then he says he has huge financial problems, that he doesn't have a full time job anymore, or the nice income he had. That other people only want to hire him to get information about the case etc. But if so, why is he offering Lindsay Lohan his services FOR FREE? Doesn't make sense in my book.
Cross-examination is still on-going, but Ed is going to make an interesting point after the break I think. They are discussing the timeline in order to figure out when and how they were hiding the Propofol bottles (there they are again, nice hint TS. Seems like you knew that the bottles would become a big thing in this whole circus) and Alvarez is getting very nervous, because as far as I can see, there is no way he had time to even fart in between before calling 911.
Also interesting, maybe nothing but it reminded me of the drawing that Chandler made (the penis aka mushroom) for the prosecution back in '93. The DA showed a drawing that Alvarez made of the IV bag, which he made in May 2011 (btw: no bottle in it). The defense though had another one, also made by Alvarez on August 31, 2009 and this drawing differed from the one made in 2011. It was said that the one made in 2009 was because the prosecution asked Alvarez for it. Alvarez said he could not recall drawing that picture. (Yet he could recall the tiniest detail of what happened in the room on June 25, up to the angle that the propofol was laying in the IV bag.)
That's it for now. Can't wait for the rest.
ps: off topic, but also not: I asked monstertooty in chat if she could call a coroner for me to ask if your legal name should be on your DC. The answer was yes. The legal name as it was at the time of your death, MUST be stated on the DC. It does not have to be the same as on the BC if you legally changed it somewhere in between, but if you never changed your name, it should be the exact name as listed on your birth certificate. If not, the DC is INVALID. We know from Jermaine's book that Michael's real name is Michael Joe, as stated on his BC. We also know he still had that name in 2005, when he was on trial. According Jermaine, the 'Joseph' name, is a rumour, and never does he mention that Michael changed his name to Joseph. So I think we can safely conclude (again) that the DC is INVALID, just like many other legal documents we have seen.
QuoteReal doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
:lol:
OMG Souza, this is hilarious really. I can not believe people believe this. And like you wrote, it is very interesting that NOONE asked if Murray is a real doctor. All these things are like putting a finger in the blind eye but still people are sleeping. :?
100% respect and no tone intended, but are you from the US? Because that is not at all the case.
The DA could give a rip about pressure from anyone when it comes to victim's family and the public. They only bring cases they think they can win.
The single count of Manslaughter is strong piece of evidence supporting hoax court (DA=in on it). It's almost unheard of to bring a single count in a case like this.
I don't see the FBI Sting case being made on this thread, but what does trip me up is the 333 pages of FBI files released.
Now. How do we know there are 333 pages? Yes yes I know, do the math. But my point is, those documents were released via TMZ, correct? So who says all 333 pages are legit?
Information I found out about after the fact when I wrote this:http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.phpf=145&t=18688&p=323759#p323759
The coroner’s office may have fallen victim of the scrutiny also to see if they would do their job correctly.
LAPD corruption investigation to result in few charges
November 8, 2001 Posted: 10:42 AM EST (1542 GMT)
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The criminal investigation into alleged widespread corruption in the Los Angeles Police Department is expected to conclude by December with no further prosecutions, Los Angeles District Attorney Steve Cooley said.
Since the corruption probe began nearly four years ago, eight officers have been charged with criminal misconduct. More than 70 officers in the LAPD's Rampart Division faced allegations of planting drugs and guns on suspects, fabricating arrest reports, beating suspects in custody and in some cases shooting unarmed, innocent people during gang sweeps.
"We are in the process of reviewing 45 cases, but we don't anticipate there will be additional charges filed," said Jane Robison, Cooley's spokeswoman.
Most of the cases involving alleged misconduct will be dismissed because of insufficient evidence or because the statute of limitations expired, sources said.
Revelations of alleged misconduct emerged after former officer Rafael Perez was caught stealing eight pounds of cocaine from a police evidence room in March 1998. Perez, who entered a plea agreement with state prosecutors, was granted state immunity in exchange for his cooperation in the corruption probe.
After more than 4,000 pages of sworn testimony, Perez described how officers in the anti-gang unit framed dozens of innocent people during gang raids west of downtown Los Angeles.
In one case that defined the magnitude of corruption, Perez described how he and his former partner, Nino Durden, shot Javier Francisco Ovando multiple times and conspired to cover up the shooting by planting a gun on him.
Ovando, paralyzed from the shooting, was convicted of assaulting the officers and sentenced to prison. He was released after investigators concluded that the shooting was unjustified. After serving three years in prison, Ovando sued the city of Los Angeles and settled the largest civil lawsuit in city history, $15 million.
In March, Durden entered a plea deal with state and federal prosecutors stemming from the Ovando shooting and other charges. Federal authorities have opened a separate investigation into the Rampart corruption scandal, including possible civil rights violations against Perez for his role in the Ovando shooting.
Durden is expected to serve at least seven years and eight months in state prison when he is sentenced. Perez was released from a five-year prison term in July.
The scandal has led to more than 100 criminal convictions being overturned. The city of Los Angeles also signed a consent decree with the U.S. Justice Department requiring federal oversight of the police department's management and training policies.
The city has paid over $30 million dollars in civil lawsuits related to the corruption scandal, but some city officials estimate the costs could exceed $125 million when the remaining cases are settled.
On Wednesday, Cooley outlined a series of written protocols to investigate allegations of corruption, including a Justice System Integrity Division to review cases involving probable cause against officers and a response team to investigate any officer involved shooting or in custody deaths on the scene.
"Never before in the 151-year history of the district attorney's office has that office issued written protocols which outline how, when and under what circumstances prosecutors will investigate allegations of criminal misconduct by law enforcement employees," Cooley said.
Had such a mechanism been in place earlier, Cooley said it "would have probably led to the early detection of disgraced former Officer Rafael Perez."
-- From CNN Producer Stanley Wilson
Must watch series of videos that explain a whole lot. Steve Cooley the Big Boss of the DA's office is exposed by those who have worked with him personally. I believe Steve and the DA's office (all of it) is under scrutiny (focus of the sting) along with all the other systems I have talked about. This is bigger than a few going down or being exposed for the crooks they are.http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515.php
DISTRICT ATTORNEY CORRUPTION?: TWO VIEWS ON DA COOLEY’S RECORD
Internet exclusive: On Full Disclosure® Video News Blog
Video Preview Time: Preview 7:30 min.
Release Date: May 14, 2008
Los Angeles, CA Is it a co-incidence that it has been almost 20 years, since the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office prosecuted a big dollar, white collar crime? Or could it be there are no more big corruption cases or major crimes committed by powerful and prominent people in Los Angeles?
In a Full Disclosure Network® two-part series Steve Ipsen, President of the Association of Deputy District Attorneys (L. A. County) and Albert Robles, Constitutional Attorney who serves as an elected member of the So. California Water Replenishment Board both contend that corruption is alive and well in Los Angeles County. These two challengers running against Cooley in the June 2008 election, point out that the current DA has refused to prosecute the rich and powerful while successfully lobbying for a $55,000 pay raise bringing his salary to $292,300, making him one of the highest-paid government officials anywhere.
Watch this seven minute preview from the series that is featured on 45 cable systems and the internet. The full two-part programs will be available for viewing (for a limited time up to the election) from the Full Disclosure website from the following links:
Preview (7:30 min)
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-1.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-1.php) Segment #1 (8 min)
Candidates provide background on their careers and qualifications. They present a summary of issues for why they are running against the Incumbent DA Steve Cooley
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-2.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-2.php) Segment #2 (8 min)
Candidates discuss why Steve Cooley is not participating in the U. S. Department of Justice Gang Initiative and address the following issues:
DA non-action policy on deporting illegal alien gang members
Mexican Drug Cartels in City of Cudahy
Impact of Criminal Defense lobby on DA prosecution policies
DA Cooley's campaign contributions from Criminal Defense lobby
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-3.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-3.php) Segment #3 (8 min)
Candidates describe the failures and demoralization of the DA's office, and of DA Investigators as body guards and chauffeurs for questionable personal activities.
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-4.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-4.php) Segment #4 (8 min)
Both candidates noted the following:
DA's refusal to prosecute pedophile priests in the Catholic Church
DA's non-prosecution policies of powerful people, i.e. Board of Supervisors
Called DA's pay raise "pay back" for looking the other way.
Ethics Violation: Cooley called Jury members "stupid" following the Blake Verdict
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-5.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-5.php) Segment #5 (8 min)
Candidates detail issue where there is Corruption in the DA's office:
Belmont Learning Center scandal
Criminal Defense Attorneys influence
DA disbanded environmental crimes unit
Manipulated cases by transfer of expert Deputies
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-6.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-6.php) Segment #6 (8 min)
Video disclosure of how DA Investigators were used to conduct an unofficial and unauthorized investigation. Candidates describe DA's failure to investigate MacArthur Park beatings gross negligence at Martin Luther King Hospital.
Challengers Quotes on DA Cooley’s record:
Steve Ipsen:
“The corruption that exists in the county that I'm aware of, that I can state here today is with the District Attorney's office.”
“This DA doesn't deserve to be paid when he isn't doing his job.”
Albert Robles:
“He has refused to prosecute the pedophiles and child molesters that work and still work in the Catholic Church”.
“Steve Cooley takes untold amounts of money from the criminal defense sector”.
This series is to be featured on 45 cable systems starting May 14, 2008. A complete listing of channels and airtimes, by community can be found from this link.
The way things are now Propofol is an uncontrolled drug and can be obtained very easily by a Dr. who has a liscense and also by a person with a script. The pharmacy in Nevada was distributing Propofol to Murray as if it was no big deal. That is why that pharmacy is now shut down.
The events that have happened since MJ died because of Propofol have been incredible. MJ used himself as bait for a sting operation that far out weighs a cadaver being used in the process. He also used Propofol as the drug of choice so that it would cause great attention to that drug. The Propofol from a manufacture making it was shown to have tainted lot numbers. The manufactures have stopped making it here in the USA. There is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.
I believe that one part of the sting operation deals with the drug problems in Hollywood and the over prescribing of meds by the doctors. I also believe it has to do with FDA issues and the manufactors of Propofol. Big pharmaceuticals manufactors do not care what goes into the drugs or the side effects as long as they make a profit. Tainted medicines are resold all the time in order to dump them and make a profit.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-14/health/jackson.drug.recall_1_generic-version-propofol-lot-number?_s=PM:HEALTH (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-14/health/jackson.drug.recall_1_generic-version-propofol-lot-number?_s=PM:HEALTH)
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-15/health/propofol.dea.jackson_1_diprivan-propofol-drug?_s=PM:HEALTH (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-15/health/propofol.dea.jackson_1_diprivan-propofol-drug?_s=PM:HEALTH)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/11/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-las-vegas/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/11/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-las-vegas/)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/propofol-manufacturer-in-michael-jackson-hospira-pharmacy/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/propofol-manufacturer-in-michael-jackson-hospira-pharmacy/)
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugShortages/ucm209227.htm (http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugShortages/ucm209227.htm)
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10769777 (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10769777)
http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=31878 (http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=31878)
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/propofol/propofol_law.shtml (http://www.erowid.org/pharms/propofol/propofol_law.shtml)
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2009/fr0723.htm (http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2009/fr0723.htm)
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959)
TS_comments wrote:
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
There is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.
http://www.dipity.com/timeline/Propofol-Recall
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJTN1AIKgXk[/youtube]
Thanks for posting this video Im_convinced. It's particularly interesting what Brian Oxman says. Oxman claims that back in Aug '09, he learned of the FBI file on MJ and it was he who requested the files be released under the Freedom of Information Act. As a result of that request, the 333 pages were released by the FBI. He also says that as an attorney, he knew the FBI was significantly involved in some of the aspects of Michael's life. I find these comments quite intriguing because Oxman is claiming it was because of him that the FBI files were released (the 33 pages) AND it was Oxman who said the ambulance photo was 99.9% fake, which also totally ties into what everyone's been discussing here. :shock:
Also, this is unrelated but the former FBI agent in the video sounds a lot like Garth from Wayne's World.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg321892.html#msg321892
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12893#p216153
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18386&p=316315
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ns/today-entertainment/
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=40287
http://www.jerrybrown.org/jerry-brown-accomplishments-attorney-general
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=42873
Here is the website for office of the attorney general and the missions she/they are working on. http://oag.ca.gov/
While the Jackson family is huge and they have several voices that want to be heard, they aren't that big in the US as some might think. I also don't think that they are going to just have control over what a DA or their office is going or not going to do. If that were the case then all the Jackson's had to do was make a phone call to the courts and the 2005 trial would of never happened. What about all of the other times MJ had gone to court over his music, again never would of happened if all it took was to have the last name Jackson. I hope that didn't come across too harsh.
I can't remember but did anyone else report about the 333 pages from the FBI or was it just TMZ? I haven't made up my mind on whether it's a hoax court or sting, I'm still on the fence about it. I'm very interested in hearing all sides though.
Sorry but I think you're wrong. The only thing that's clear in the upper left is 2011. On the first calendar in the first row on the left top-down, that are the dates from sunday. Sunday the third wasn't in May. All the dates and days fits in october, november and december. Either way it still isn't an explanation for the missing days.The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Okay... I thought Kai Chase's testimony was weird. Either she is a real good damn actress, or she really got pissed at a certain moment when Flanagan called her out on not getting help. Maybe it's just in the script, but she really looked busted, unlike Alvarez, who just seemed nervous as hell.
She testified that when Murray came down, panicked, around 12:05-12:10 pm, he screamed "Get help, get security, get Prince". She then got Prince, and went back to work? She said that Prince was the closest to her, yet she later explained that the security trailer was only a few steps away. She said that she believed something was wrong with MJ, but still went back to work?
If I see or hear my boss in distress, or panic about it, WORK CAN WAIT. And if something is wrong with MJ, his lunch can wait. She could have gotten to security after she got Prince, yet she chose not to and seemed pissed when Flanagan addressed that and asked her why she didn't do more. "I just did was I was asked" she said in a bit of an angry tone imo, but what Murray asked was if she could get HELP, SECURITY, and lastly Prince.
She also said she did several interviews about it, both in the US and abroad and made money off of it. $1000.00 per interview abroad is easy money, if her travel expenses would have been covered too, but we don't know that because it wasn't asked. But in the end she did confirm she made $7000.00 off of it.
It might be a role of course, and I hope it is, but I did mention that I think the sting could be against some of the witnesses. Not to get the few individuals, but the people behind them. Who knows who they work for and I noticed Chernoff specifically asking Alvarez who he worked for. "Who do you work for?"
Anyway, need to think this through some more, but I was reminded of it when she seemed to get so pissed and even a little arrogant. She gave a certain look and she did not see anything that day, besides what was happening downstairs. I also don't recall her saying she actually saw MJ leaving the house on the stretcher.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
Imconvinced, I think it's sad that you feel so attacked by bec, when IMO she is just on the other side of a battle that should be informative, tough but also FUN. I think you are missing the last part. I did not know where you were from either, except that you ar from the USA. I don't follow your Twitter, or paying attention to your current state of residence. Bec doesn't even have Twitter, so why blame her for not knowing that? Chill out and as the judge says: sit back and relax, for your own sake.Souza-This is where the written word loses translation. The emotion is not understood in the intent, it is only interpretated by the other party depending on how they choose to attach an emotion to it. I was not offended nor felt attacked by what bec asked. I am cool as a cucumber. She asked me the question and I gave her an answer. I have no problems with her at all. I am just doing what I was asked to do, lead out the sting operation. None of this is a personal attack either way. I know she is supposed to be defending the hoax court. I am responding to what she writes. I am far from missing the FUN, I have been lmao since the start. /woohoo/
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
Imconvinced, I think it's sad that you feel so attacked by bec, when IMO she is just on the other side of a battle that should be informative, tough but also FUN. I think you are missing the last part. I did not know where you were from either, except that you ar from the USA. I don't follow your Twitter, or paying attention to your current state of residence. Bec doesn't even have Twitter, so why blame her for not knowing that? Chill out and as the judge says: sit back and relax, for your own sake.Souza-This is where the written word loses translation. The emotion is not understood in the intent, it is only interpretated by the other party depending on how they choose to attach an emotion to it. I was not offended nor felt attacked by what bec asked. I am cool as a cucumber. She asked me the question and I gave her an answer. I have no problems with her at all. I am just doing what I was asked to do, lead out the sting operation. None of this is a personal attack either way. I know she is supposed to be defending the hoax court. I am responding to what she writes. I am far from missing the FUN, I have been lmao since the start. /woohoo/
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
I get what your saying when it comes to a sting op on a DA's office, court system, and everything else that is being exposed NOT effecting where you live on a GLOBAL scale. We both know it is MJ's objective to include a world wide awakening. This trial will do the exposing part for his state of CA and who knows if this is satisfying enuff for him as a vendetta/revenge? Hopefully all the exposure to corruption will be a butterfly effect all over the world and cause people to question their own courts, etc. I am not just writing my opinions here about the corruption. I have provided evidence.
Alberto could not have done all that shit in a 2 minute time frame, that's why it's ridiculas. I also noticed he repeated the DA's question and left the alive part off. lolol/
Okay... I thought Kai Chase's testimony was weird. Either she is a real good damn actress, or she really got pissed at a certain moment when Flanagan called her out on not getting help. Maybe it's just in the script, but she really looked busted, unlike Alvarez, who just seemed nervous as hell.
She testified that when Murray came down, panicked, around 12:05-12:10 pm, he screamed "Get help, get security, get Prince". She then got Prince, and went back to work? She said that Prince was the closest to her, yet she later explained that the security trailer was only a few steps away. She said that she believed something was wrong with MJ, but still went back to work?
If I see or hear my boss in distress, or panic about it, WORK CAN WAIT. And if something is wrong with MJ, his lunch can wait. She could have gotten to security after she got Prince, yet she chose not to and seemed pissed when Flanagan addressed that and asked her why she didn't do more. "I just did was I was asked" she said in a bit of an angry tone imo, but what Murray asked was if she could get HELP, SECURITY, and lastly Prince.
She also said she did several interviews about it, both in the US and abroad and made money off of it. $1000.00 per interview abroad is easy money, if her travel expenses would have been covered too, but we don't know that because it wasn't asked. But in the end she did confirm she made $7000.00 off of it.
It might be a role of course, and I hope it is, but I did mention that I think the sting could be against some of the witnesses. Not to get the few individuals, but the people behind them. Who knows who they work for and I noticed Chernoff specifically asking Alvarez who he worked for. "Who do you work for?"
Anyway, need to think this through some more, but I was reminded of it when she seemed to get so pissed and even a little arrogant. She gave a certain look and she did not see anything that day, besides what was happening downstairs. I also don't recall her saying she actually saw MJ leaving the house on the stretcher.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
I see what your saying and I have never denied that this is very much a trap for the media. Last night I was watching a DVR'd part of the trial and I fast forward it as fast as I could and I laughed so hard. The media talking heads like Nancy, Jean and them were talking and moving so fast. I had my daughter watch it and she fell out. I didn't see your tip until just now and I am beyond frustration or annoyance at people not reading my posts. The info is there and people can do what they want. The info will sit until the end and we shall see because the troot prevails.Imconvinced, I think it's sad that you feel so attacked by bec, when IMO she is just on the other side of a battle that should be informative, tough but also FUN. I think you are missing the last part. I did not know where you were from either, except that you ar from the USA. I don't follow your Twitter, or paying attention to your current state of residence. Bec doesn't even have Twitter, so why blame her for not knowing that? Chill out and as the judge says: sit back and relax, for your own sake.Souza-This is where the written word loses translation. The emotion is not understood in the intent, it is only interpretated by the other party depending on how they choose to attach an emotion to it. I was not offended nor felt attacked by what bec asked. I am cool as a cucumber. She asked me the question and I gave her an answer. I have no problems with her at all. I am just doing what I was asked to do, lead out the sting operation. None of this is a personal attack either way. I know she is supposed to be defending the hoax court. I am responding to what she writes. I am far from missing the FUN, I have been lmao since the start. /woohoo/
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
I get what your saying when it comes to a sting op on a DA's office, court system, and everything else that is being exposed NOT effecting where you live on a GLOBAL scale. We both know it is MJ's objective to include a world wide awakening. This trial will do the exposing part for his state of CA and who knows if this is satisfying enuff for him as a vendetta/revenge? Hopefully all the exposure to corruption will be a butterfly effect all over the world and cause people to question their own courts, etc. I am not just writing my opinions here about the corruption. I have provided evidence.
Alberto could not have done all that shit in a 2 minute time frame, that's why it's ridiculas. I also noticed he repeated the DA's question and left the alive part off. lolol/
As for the butterfly effect: I don't see that happening, that is why I don't believe that this is the big sting in this court (IF there is a sting in court, court could also be a distraction from the sting). We have seen many times that public figures were outed as dirty, but I have never seen a butterfly effect. People talk about it for a few days, but as soon as the media stops talking about it, the subject is dead again. So that is why I again arrive at the media. The media has way too much power over people's opinions. Exposing the media at a grand scale would be way more helpful. At least that is what I think.
I do believe there is a sting against certain individuals, I am just not sure yet who or what the target is yet.
It wasn't even two minutes, it was half a minute. Maybe Ed will remake that part from 12 Angry Men where the guy reconstructs the events to show the timeline is way off.
Overall, good day for Murray today.
I thought the nanny was Grace?[/b]
Okay... I thought Kai Chase's testimony was weird. Either she is a real good damn actress, or she really got pissed at a certain moment when Flanagan called her out on not getting help.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
I thought Kai's testimony was weird too. She seems to be sticking to the script although it proved a bit trying when they really started questioning her actions, or lack of actions.
I just had a thought - what if the events of June 25th happened as they did (apart from Michael having propofol and dying). Maybe it was decided on to actually go through the motions of the script, act it out so that when the inevitable trial came, what they say is not lying but truth (except for MJ dying) and so when they describe what happened (whether in interviews or on the stand) it has believability because they did do what they're saying.
The 911 call still could've been staged, as well as the paramedics. I'm really wanting to see the paramedics, I wonder if they'll be questioned about not recognizing Michael, thinking he was an old sickly hospice patient when the photos - ambulance and "death" show someone who does appear to be Michael. Who knows, maybe Michael did ride to UCLA in the ambulance and then hop out of the back of the white van later on. We never really agreed on who/what/if anything was in the ambulance...
I wish I could watch every single minute of the trial, so far I've only been catching the afternoon sessions as I'm at work during the first half.
@ Sarahli, I don't really remember Nanny Roselyn but I remember something about a Sister Rose...?
According to the seal, I noticed that the judge but extra sympathy on exhibit 32. He mentioned it a lot, at least 5, or maybe even 7? lol times). The fake seal has 32 stars, which is not correct. Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV?? WTF?? Okay...
But the judge mentioned it a few times, then said that exhibit 31 (31 starts) was the actual thing (911 call in this case) and 32 was a copy, written by someone else (transcript for the jury). I thought that was pretty interesting.
Another thing which made me laugh out loud, is how he described the IV bag. It was cut open and there was a Propofol bottle thrown into it upside down, and he saw a milky white substance on the bottom of the bag. He saw Murray performing CPR on the bed with one hand and said that when they transported MJ to the ground, that Murray went on to do mouth-to-mouth while Alvarez took over CPR and murray said: "This is the first time I do mouth-to-mouth, but I have to because he is my friend.
A review, real doctor against Murray:
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
ps @Imconvinced: one little tip if you would like to have people more interested in what you post; try to use less links. It's not easy to get through for people and clicking links (as proven in internet world) will make people lose attention. I explained certain things a hundred times also, so what? I think if you would take the time to explain again, without linking that much but summarizing the info in the actual post, more people will be able to keep their attention. It's just a tip since I have seen a few times that you are frustrated that people don't read your posts.
I don't understand what a real judge has to do with a hoax court.
Feb 8 2010 7:18 PM ESThttp://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1631527/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-pleads-not-guilty.jhtml
Michael Jackson Doctor Conrad Murray Pleads Not Guilty
Murray was charged with involuntary manslaughter earlier in the day; bail was set at $75,000.
By Eric Ditzian
Hours after Dr. Conrad Murray was charged with involuntary manslaughter in connection with Michael Jackson's 2009 death, the embattled physician pleaded not guilty Monday afternoon (February 8) during an arraignment hearing at a Los Angeles courthouse, according to The Associated Press.
Murray's bail was set at $75,000, three times greater than the bail usually set for such crimes. Without being handcuffed, Murray was then taken into custody for booking. He must surrender his passport, allowing him to travel within the United States but not out of the country. Prosecutors had been seeking bail of $300,000, but Superior Court Judge Keith L. Schwartz rejected that amount. The involuntary-manslaughter charge carries a maximum jail sentence of four years.
Are you saying that the judge we see now in court is not the real person/judge Michael E. Pastor but someone else assuming his identity?
Sorry to debunk the judge thing but the other judge (from 2/8/10) is not Michael Pastor, he is Judge Keith L. Schwartz.
From your video link, onthewingsoflove: @1:17
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcgQDxCdBFU[/youtube]
Now I find that very interesting because all this time he has been listed in articles and news clips as Judge Michael E. Pastor. Why!
My opinion is that the judge we see in court is the real Michael E. Pastor judge.
I do not think he is an actor - while the real Michael E. Pastor is just watching the trial from home.
Because they changed judges shortly after this hearing in which Murray plead not-guilty (the first time), was arrested (they tell us) and bail was set (allegedly). Judge Michael Pastor took over presiding the case from Judge Ken Schwartz (taxi cab sunflower doll judge) in spring of 2010.
Souza,It really seemed to me that Alverez didn't make that drawing. He said he couldn't remember and said something about he wouldn't have drawn something that way. I wonder if this is an example of planted false evidence like in 2005, so is that what your Chandler example is about?
Also interesting, maybe nothing but it reminded me of the drawing that Chandler made (the penis aka mushroom) for the prosecution back in '93. The DA showed a drawing that Alvarez made of the IV bag, which he made in May 2011 (btw: no bottle in it). The defense though had another one, also made by Alvarez on August 31, 2009 and this drawing differed from the one made in 2011. It was said that the one made in 2009 was because the prosecution asked Alvarez for it. Alvarez said he could not recall drawing that picture. (Yet he could recall the tiniest detail of what happened in the room on June 25, up to the angle that the propofol was laying in the IV bag.)
Andrea
thought Kai's testimony was weird too. She seems to be sticking to the script although it proved a bit trying when they really started questioning her actions, or lack of actions.
I just had a thought - what if the events of June 25th happened as they did (apart from Michael having propofol and dying). Maybe it was decided on to actually go through the motions of the script, act it out so that when the inevitable trial came, what they say is not lying but truth (except for MJ dying) and so when they describe what happened (whether in interviews or on the stand) it has believability because they did do what they're saying.
The 911 call still could've been staged, as well as the paramedics. I'm really wanting to see the paramedics, I wonder if they'll be questioned about not recognizing Michael, thinking he was an old sickly hospice patient when the photos - ambulance and "death" show someone who does appear to be Michael. Who knows, maybe Michael did ride to UCLA in the ambulance and then hop out of the back of the white van later on. We never really agreed on who/what/if anything was in the ambulance...
My opinion is that the judge we see in court is the real Michael E. Pastor judge.
I do not think he is an actor - while the real Michael E. Pastor is just watching the trial from home.
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
After yesterday Alvarez and Kai testimony the idea of a sting against some people around MJ came to my mind, in particular when defence started to grill Alvarez about his work and Kai about the events pre-911. :?
:? :?
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
I think you are missing the point about the extra star in the seal... I am going to quote what bec wrote about this:
"Btw, I got in a Facebook debate on this one. TS helped me out with his entrapment vs sting lessons. I was challenged by a non-believer to explain what the purpose of a fake seal would be. The 32nd star indicates that this court isn't "real" so MJ can't be accused of fraud (entrapment) after bamsday. Anyone who cared to know would see it wasn't real. An exact replica of the official seal would be fraudulent and constitute impersonating a government institution. The 32nd star prevents all of that."
With love! bearhug
I totally agree! It is put there on purpose.. party/What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
I think you are missing the point about the extra star in the seal... I am going to quote what bec wrote about this:
"Btw, I got in a Facebook debate on this one. TS helped me out with his entrapment vs sting lessons. I was challenged by a non-believer to explain what the purpose of a fake seal would be. The 32nd star indicates that this court isn't "real" so MJ can't be accused of fraud (entrapment) after bamsday. Anyone who cared to know would see it wasn't real. An exact replica of the official seal would be fraudulent and constitute impersonating a government institution. The 32nd star prevents all of that."
With love! bearhug
What Bec said is mainly what I mean. That can't be a "mistake", you know? It was put there on purpose, in no way I believe it was a mistake and they accidentally put there 32 stars instead of 31.
I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. wow,this is very interesting and makes a lot of sense to me.Micheal a messenger from God,impressive OMG!
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
wow this is very interesting,it all makes sense to me.Micheal a messenger for God ,impressive. OMG!I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry.
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry. I remember in the movie trailer for Thrive (which will be released via internet on 11.11.11), Deepak Chopra, a friend of Michael's, stated that the pharmaceutical companies run or help run medical schools and I would add probably hospitals too so they have a stake on what doctors, nurses and even entire hospitals do for their patients in America and possibly around the world. They may even have a stake on what laws are put into place as far as what hospitals are able to do within their facilities or what drugs are omitted into hospitals. And I vaguely remember about a rumor that Michael Jackson was possibly involved in filing charges against the WHO (World Health Organization) so this may tie into that. This could be one reason why he chose to create his death in this manner. I was also thinking that possibly in California, there is even further corruption due to the mega Hollywood scene and if he wishes to open up a children's hospital, he may want to have alternative medicine as well as Western medicine and that may be hard to do if the law or certain parameters prevent him from doing that. I am not familiar with the laws and restrictions of hospital procedure and medicine so maybe someone who is can help me out or disprove my little theory here. I also think the corruption in the medical field is so interconnected to corruption in other areas like the justice system, mainstream media and maybe even the music industry that this could be a major takeover. Or as always, I could be totally wrong. lol
I 'get' what bec, Souza and everyone else is saying about this being a 'hoax' court...especially in light of the seal. And maybe I'm just missing something. But how does this being a 'hoax' court erase the possibility of there also being a 'sting,' or several, going on at the same time.
Are you guys thinking that it's ONLY a 'hoax' court...or that there is both hoax and sting elements at play? I think it's both and that in order to do the 'sting' part, a 'hoax' court was needed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
i dont believe the court is fake. Especially when main stream journalist, and fans are entering the court
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry. I remember in the movie trailer for Thrive (which will be released via internet on 11.11.11), Deepak Chopra, a friend of Michael's, stated that the pharmaceutical companies run or help run medical schools and I would add probably hospitals too so they have a stake on what doctors, nurses and even entire hospitals do for their patients in America and possibly around the world. They may even have a stake on what laws are put into place as far as what hospitals are able to do within their facilities or what drugs are omitted into hospitals. And I vaguely remember about a rumor that Michael Jackson was possibly involved in filing charges against the WHO (World Health Organization) so this may tie into that. This could be one reason why he chose to create his death in this manner. I was also thinking that possibly in California, there is even further corruption due to the mega Hollywood scene and if he wishes to open up a children's hospital, he may want to have alternative medicine as well as Western medicine and that may be hard to do if the law or certain parameters prevent him from doing that. I am not familiar with the laws and restrictions of hospital procedure and medicine so maybe someone who is can help me out or disprove my little theory here. I also think the corruption in the medical field is so interconnected to corruption in other areas like the justice system, mainstream media and maybe even the music industry that this could be a major takeover. Or as always, I could be totally wrong. lol
Great post! And I agree about the medical industry being a possible target. It's one that I'm sure would be very personal to Mike (loss of friends, for example, James Brown) due to negligence/corruption of doctors, not to mention how the focus of the medical community has become increasingly centered on money/greed, rather than on "doing no harm"--especially in California. There's been report after report about how, in North America, at least...drug addiction has skyrocketed with prescription drugs as the drugs of choice (rather than 'street' and/or illegal drugs). The biggest difference, though, is that the ONLY way to get addicted to prescription drugs (even if purchased on the street)...is through a doctor's prescription. The 'spotlight' shines brighter on California due to the glitter of Hollywood...but it is just a reflection of what is taking place across the country.
I can definitely see MJ, with the help of the FBI, going after the medical industry (from pharmaceutical companies--that have infiltrated government, to doctors, to pharmacies and everything inbetween).
With L.O.V.E. always.
I 'get' what bec, Souza and everyone else is saying about this being a 'hoax' court...especially in light of the seal. And maybe I'm just missing something. But how does this being a 'hoax' court erase the possibility of there also being a 'sting,' or several, going on at the same time.
/pull hair/
The paramedic also mentioned that Michael was wearing a surgical cap....was I hearing things?
/pull hair/
The paramedic also mentioned that Michael was wearing a surgical cap....was I hearing things?
Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)WTF??
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
DEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQffAxUTjD64IEP6akh_u8fBkUn3ILZcGPclR9aCffLvvWmKHGQ1A&t=1)
DEtAiLS…………….
take a seat in the "FRONT" row & focus on "BACKground" 8-)
I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
Alarms going off...
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
Who said that? The tabloids. None of them appeared in a video interview saying that. It was all said in a tabloid, so that doesn't mean inconsistency. They never said that. The tablods did.I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??
Alarms going off...
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
I typed this (my quoted post) about 20-30 seconds into the alarms going off...4:26 my time OR 2:26 Los Angeles time...time of "death". WEIRD!
Who said that? The tabloids. None of them appeared in a video interview saying that. It was all said in a tabloid, so that doesn't mean inconsistency. They never said that. The tablods did.I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
Wasn't there a "false" alarm the day Michael was taken to the hospital too?
Who said that? The tabloids. None of them appeared in a video interview saying that. It was all said in a tabloid, so that doesn't mean inconsistency. They never said that. The tablods did.I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
Alarms going off...
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
I typed this (my quoted post) about 20-30 seconds into the alarms going off...4:26 my time OR 2:26 Los Angeles time...time of "death". WEIRD!
I wasn't sure which thread to post this in. TIAI seems to be the official trial thread for observations but it also relates to Front's posts in the Back thread so I'm posting it both, TS or Front or Back or MJ. I'm so confused!!! So there it is as well! LOLwow,very interesting analogy,you definitely are on to something.Great observation.
Wow! With all the talk about the fake seal only having 31 stars it made me think about Front’s post.
Front said:QuoteDEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT
The word “DEtAiLS” seems to hold a lot of KEYS. Was this another clue for us??? Maybe he's talking about some hidden meanings...... "DEALS" and "SEAL." Could be both and that's why he wrote it like he did. What do you guys think?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
.... thanks for the shout out Front ;)
LOL they keep on making mistakes with Michael’s name it seems. It was spelled Micheal on one of the documents from Senneff........the date of birth is wrong as well, of course! /woohoo/
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3521/michealmr.jpg)
... and this happened right after he was talking about his “BACKground” as a paramedic!!!!
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQffAxUTjD64IEP6akh_u8fBkUn3ILZcGPclR9aCffLvvWmKHGQ1A&t=1)
DEtAiLS…………….
take a seat in the "FRONT" row & focus on "BACKground" 8-)
Another interesting observation....1221 was circled on Senneff’s notes, as if to pinpoint to this being important. Of course it reminds us of 1221 ---> 21st December 2012!! 8-)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8241/teletype911.jpg)
And just before this was shown, the previous witness, Murray’s patient Mr. Robert Russell "coincidentally" or not, when talking about his heart problems, said that he felt like "it was the end of the world, the end of his world" ... clear link between the two in my opinion! LOL
I also noticed Robert being asked "did you feel abandoned?"... this seems to be a theme running through the trial so far.
Another odd point has got me thinking of 2 bodies LOL Alvarez had said that he and Murray had moved Michael’s body to the floor while making the 911 call, and it appeared that Michael was not fully clothed. However Senneff claimed that when he arrived only Murray was in the bedroom with the patient who was dressed in Pyjama bottoms and shirt and was on the bed. ????
Anna the other paramedic said he didn't recognize MJ and he was told later it was MJI missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
Blounts testimony so far:
* Blount said when he entered MJ's room, he immediately recognized the patient.
* He said Murray was "flushed, sweating profusely, agitated," and yelling, "He needs help! Can you help him please?"
* Blount said he thought MJ was already dead when they arrived.
* When EMT workers asked Murray about the IV bag, he said he was giving MJ normal saline (salt water) because he was "dehydrated."
* An alarm just sounded in the courtroom. Apparently some kid accidentally pulled the alarm. The judge jokingly said, "Don't worry if it were an emergency, I'd be the first one out" ... he got a good laugh from the audience.
* Once they loaded MJ onto the ambulance, he noticed Murray scooping up Lidocaine bottles into a black bag.
* He said Murray told them MJ was only down for "about a minute" prior to their arrival.
I noticed on that emergency medical report on the bottom says found on the floor with Murray performing CPR, but the EMT testify that MJ was found on the bed and they moved him to the floor.I keep going back and forth about this with friends and others on twitter. Some (nonbelievers) say it is inconsequential. WELL- no, not really. Let's remember these are witnesses for the prosecution. They are prepped BY prosecution. The DA KNOWS already what the answers will be- this is how a case works. Surprises by YOUR witnesses generally only happen in movies (hehe). So,- the DA would have known the details do not match up and they would have asked differently. Why would they manipulate their own case (if this was a real case).
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor...... ....
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spider
[
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spiderisn't that the point so Murray will be acquitted.
[/quote
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
I have noticed that today the judge said "REDIRECT exam" but the other days he said "CROSS exam" ... hmmm suspicious//
Senneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene -- but they tried to revive him for 47 minutes to no avail. He said Murray refused to let them declare a time of death.:roll: /judge/
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spider
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
Great screen catch Strangerincalifornia! Souza and I are on that one too!
I think that there will be many many more "surprises" for us coming up! I still believe that there was a terminal patient, who maybe Dr. Murray was helping, not MJ!
Dr. Cooper is not acting and I don't think she's lying. I think she honestly believes Mr. Jackson was there that day, dead on arrival.
.
Ok so I haven't left but have just been reading. I can't believe people are catching these inconsistencies. Nothing makes sense. And is it just me or doesn't it seem like the lawyers are just going through the motions without any feeling? There have hardly been any objections and they don't seem to be questioning witnesses about these inconsistencies. I agree that this is a hoax court but that there is a "sting" component to it as well. I can't see a real court room allowing a picture of Michael supposedly dead to be used as the background of a powerpoint...I mean WTF?? That is incredibly disrespectful if it were actually true. And I can't believe they would allow them to play the audio of Michael "intoxicated" when there is no confirmation that it is actually him. There are toys in the courtroom and everyone seems half asleep. I can see how this trial could be used to expose the media and their half-assed reporting and the medical community. However, I need to see more proof that that is the case. This trial is definitely a masterpiece Michael /bravo/
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spider
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
Great screen catch Strangerincalifornia! Souza and I are on that one too!
I think that there will be many many more "surprises" for us coming up! I still believe that there was a terminal patient, who maybe Dr. Murray was helping, not MJ!
I agree with you.. Someone who really was frail and skinny. How can they say Michael was so skinny we could have seen his ribs. Can t they see pictures of him on June 24/2009? For me he was healthy and well.. Their testimony does not make any sense. (Well of course they have to lie in order to save Murray behind.. lol)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
Bec, on TMZ, after Richard Senneff's testymony, TMZ updated by points what he said. Although they deleted a big part of it after an hour or so. TMZ reported in the same article 12.20 and 12.22 as the hour when the 911 call was made.
fatalkiss...this satirical article is one of many that have been around and discussed since the beginning of the hoax. There are some doozies out there and the majority of them have been discussed disected and discreditted very early on.
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../../images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
@Anna, that's where all the other 999,999 clues come in. Lol.
Just kidding.
No, I don't think doing it at a real courthouse in a real courtroom constitutes entrapment so long as the proceedings are clearly not official in nature. The state seal makes everything official government business, from documents to letterheads to courtrooms. A fake seal renders these things invalid. There was another fake seal in the last 2 years as I recall, DC perhaps? Off the top of my head I don't remember which document but it was also something obviously inaccurate about the seal. It was CA also.
(edited to add: what I'm trying to say is that a state seal is like a government signature. A falsified signature renders a document, transaction, or agreement invalid. Forging a signature is done with the goal of being an exact replica, ie performed with the intent to deceive. In this case, the incorrect seal is not fraudulent because this replica is clearly and obviously not the same... visible by anyone who cares to notice.)
I am wondering about sworn testimonies and the laws regarding this in the states. I am assuming one cannot go to prison for perjury for lying under oath it is a hoax court, although, those religious people may find it unethical. Is a sworn testimony only valid in court? Or in the presence of legal officials too?
"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
I am wondering about sworn testimonies and the laws regarding this in the states. I am assuming one cannot go to prison for perjury for lying under oath it is a hoax court, although, those religious people may find it unethical. Is a sworn testimony only valid in court? Or in the presence of legal officials too?
"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
[...]
@ TS: I'm happy to see you back! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/chirolp_wink.gif)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2087/elviskangaroo.jpg)
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Yes, the question is WHY is it fake, no wether it is or not at the court, but I'm thinking about something else now- the seal is wrong, it was made for the streams and TV, it is not a spot on which the camera is fixed during breaks, it's just a background screen created for streams breaks- but the trial actually takes place at the court because you see fans, people around there, you saw Flanagan going out from the real court on live stream, etc. So if it takes place at the real court, wouldn't it still mean entrapment and fraud? Regardless the background seal shown on TV. Even being fake, the whole trial takes place there, it's not a set up. Wouldn't that mean fraud because the court is the real court? You imagine that people from there WOULD go at the court, fans, to support, etc. They would see if there is actual move there or not. So it's not a studio.
[
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
Wasn't there a "false" alarm the day Michael was taken to the hospital too?
QuoteSenneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene -- but they tried to revive him for 47 minutes to no avail. He said Murray refused to let them declare a time of death.:roll: /judge/
QuoteSenneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene -- but they tried to revive him for 47 minutes to no avail. He said Murray refused to let them declare a time of death.:roll: /judge/
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death. He also stated that continue resuscitation for so long it made sense, but if Michael be "dead" when the being :roll: And this is the room where it was once again the resuscitation, why so many neon lights it is rare that photo WTF?? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-mjs-er-gurney.jpg)
Mish, because they could have done exactly what we did. It's not MJ's fault they believe in lies and rumors. We cared to know the truth, so we looked for it. Anyone could have done what we did... they just chose not to.
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XV1K8ewp4lU/ToKjNaFkINI/AAAAAAAAC7s/Xk0lHm29xH8/s1600/jackospellingpop.jpg)
MICHEAL + MICHEAL :D
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XV1K8ewp4lU/ToKjNaFkINI/AAAAAAAAC7s/Xk0lHm29xH8/s1600/jackospellingpop.jpg)
MICHEAL + MICHEAL :D
wow this is very interesting,it all makes sense to me.Micheal a messenger for God ,impressive. OMG!I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
Ah, so you are back again?! Well, that is just splendid, isn't it?? lolol/Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
[
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
I've been wondering too about the camera controlling the live feed. All the media sources I've watched have the same footage, including the seal. WHO is controlling what is filmed and when the audio gets cut etc? Is there just one camera and is there a physical camerman there?
Obviously there is something fishy with the security. Someone mentioned it already I think, Kai Chase couldn't name the security guard who let her in. In the vehicles heading to UCLA it seems there were other security personnel but no one seems to recall who exactly ... hmmm.
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3703/securitypictrial.jpg)
Maybe that's why there was so much trash in front of the security trailer that day? :lol: suspicious//
And this is the room where it was once again the resuscitation, why so many neon lights it is rare that photo WTF?? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-mjs-er-gurney.jpg)
ER is an American medical drama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_drama) television series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_series) created by novelist Michael Crichton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton) that aired on NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC) from September 19, 1994 to April 2, 2009.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ER_%28TV_series%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ER_%28TV_series%29)
I wasn't trying to prove there was no seal behind the judge although there isn't one as you pointed out. If that was what I was saying I would have wrote it. I was referencing the wall PANELLING which is smooth in the screen grab from the court room. The panel wall background on the seal that the TV station puts up has individual slats. The exact same questions you presented to me can be asked of you to prove that this seal we see when the camera goes off is actually real and somewhere in the courtroom and or court building. Can you prove this is a hoax seal made by someone in MJ's camp? Can you prove it comes from somewhere else and is fed to the courtroom camera? bangbangLook at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
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Your online home for HLN and In Session on truTV’s up-to-the minute, comprehensive coverage of the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Our anchors, analysts and producers are teaming up here for trial reporting and observations that stretch from what witnesses and attorneys are saying in the L.A. court room to what you’re saying in the office break room.
From opening statements to closing arguments, you won’t miss a bit of powerful testimony as a California jury weighs whether Murray is to blame for the death of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.
Be sure to tune in to In Session on tru TV from 9 a.m. – 3 p.m. ET and HLN ALL day for LIVE wall-to-wall coverage and key analysis of the trial.
Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV??Who did Monstertooty call? The answer speaks for itself. They (TV station maybe?) someone who was unfamiliar with the CA seal?
smiley_spider
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
I've been wondering too about the camera controlling the live feed. All the media sources I've watched have the same footage, including the seal. WHO is controlling what is filmed and when the audio gets cut etc? Is there just one camera and is there a physical camerman there?
Obviously there is something fishy with the security. Someone mentioned it already I think, Kai Chase couldn't name the security guard who let her in. In the vehicles heading to UCLA it seems there were other security personnel but no one seems to recall who exactly ... hmmm.
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3703/securitypictrial.jpg)
Maybe that's why there was so much trash in front of the security trailer that day?
Those look like recyclable bags, those also look like posters inside of them. That would be horrible if those were from the fans that stalk....I mean stand outside of the house all night waiting to see Michael.
Just my thought of course.
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:None of this proves T.S is fake.There are obviously a lot of layers to this hoax.I believe somebody did die that day,but not M.J.
What is the role an title of the woman doing the signaling in of witnesses. I haven’t see a Bible yet. It seems that’s all she’s there for and she doesn’t look professional IMO.Great analysis,but what if there was no dummy,what if a real person actually died there.Not Micheal,but some one else,hospice patient,maybe. /overreacting/
Also, a member of Chernoff’s team made a television appearance on the Today Show yesterday. No one can tell me he didn’t know this was a no-no.
Kai Chase went back to cooking. No way she would have done that if he thought Michael was in danger.
Michael must have been the first body discussed before the pramedics arrived and the 2nd body of Micheal replaced it for the hoax. Since it was dressed and had on a cap and was being hoisted off the bed, still attached to an IV and the line still in the leg. They I’m guessing didn’t have enough time to do all of that before th para’s got there. Sounds like 2 different people used to creat some confusion in this scene. I don’t know but the security would not have made that many mistakes, both said the same thing.
My question is if not Michael, who did they take to the hospital? Or are they tring to go along and not make themselves not look like idiots upon learning that they had been working on a dummy, OMG! lolol/ That would really be a hoot :lol: :lol: :lol:
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:None of this proves T.S is fake.There are obviously a lot of layers to this hoax.I believe somebody did die that day,but not M.J.
What is the role an title of the woman doing the signaling in of witnesses. I haven’t see a Bible yet. It seems that’s all she’s there for and she doesn’t look professional IMO.Great analysis,but what if there was no dummy,what if a real person actually died there.Not Micheal,but some one else,hospice patient,maybe. /overreacting/
Also, a member of Chernoff’s team made a television appearance on the Today Show yesterday. No one can tell me he didn’t know this was a no-no.
Kai Chase went back to cooking. No way she would have done that if he thought Michael was in danger.
Michael must have been the first body discussed before the pramedics arrived and the 2nd body of Micheal replaced it for the hoax. Since it was dressed and had on a cap and was being hoisted off the
bed, still attached to an IV and the line still in the leg. They I’m guessing didn’t have enough time to do all of that before th para’s got there. Sounds like 2 different people used to creat some confusion in this scene. I don’t know but the security would not have made that many mistakes, both said the same thing.
My question is if not Michael, who did they take to the hospital? Or are they tring to go along and not make themselves not look like idiots upon learning that they had been working on a dummy, OMG!
lolol/ That would really be a hoot :lol: :lol: :lol:
If there were no clues about the hoax, then the FBI and/or MJ could be accused of entrapment. However, and I’m going to let another cat out of the bag here: the hoax forums are a very strong defense against entrapment. If the FBI or MJ were ever charged of entrapment, all they would need to do is point to the hoax forums as proof that anybody could’ve figured out MJ did not die, if they really wanted to figure it out.
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations".
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
Very good to know! Thanks for making the call!!!! bearhug
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
I agree that the medical industry/pharmaceutical companies being a target of the sting. I'm going to go beyond shady doctors and I've said this before but I'll say it again, hopefully in a condensed version. Basically it's all about money. One of the major pharm companies, Baxter, was investigated a few years ago for creating the avian flu virus and sending it to 18 third world countries in the form of vaccinations. Purposely infect people living in sub-standard over-crowded conditions so the virus would run wild and kill a lot of innocent people. You have George W telling Americans that millions of Americans will die from Avian flu and you have the media pounding it into your brain as well. Meanwhile, sales of Baxter's tamiflu are flying off the shelves. The same could be said about swine flu, only this time vaccinations were made available almost immediately (those patents were applied for a couple years before the outbreak). I didn't get the shot myself after researching the ingredients, which included mercury and other carcinogens - basically things that can make you very ill down the road and leave you once again dependent on meds/treatments from the pharm companies. "Sickening", right?
Back in the early 1900s, John D Rockefeller hired a guy named Flexnor to go around the country and evaluate all the medical facilities, in what became known as the Flexnor Report. Based on his findings, over half the medical facilities in the U.S. were shut down - basically ALL the ones that were NOT prescribing "modern" medicine, but were prescribing alternative/natural medicines or treatments. Since there was no $ in it for Rockefeller's drug company, they got shut down. Plus, natural/alternative treatments have been shown to actually cure a person, and the pharmaceutical companies can't have that since they need people dependent on their treatments -which don't cure you, just make your condition manageable so you always have to pay for meds and treatments. Just think of their methods to "cure" a person - burn it out (radiation), poison it out or cut it out. Natural remedies, however, are from the Earth and I do believe that God created the Earth so that we have everything we need to help ourselves, naturally.
I'm not saying that all modern medicine is evil but when you have a select few that determine who gets what, and inventing diseases to sell "cures", it's not good and has to be stopped. Then they team up with the other branches in society that they control - governments and media - to spread fear into the population. Don't buy into it. (That was as condensed as I could get, LOL).
"The science in this case.
Pure science.
The evidence in this case.
10 hours
MJ was frustrated because he could not sleep, frustrated because his doctor refused to give him a drug that he preferred, that he wanted.
He did enact, without his doctor's knowledge, without his doctor's permission, against his orders, he did enact and caused his own death.
Friends first
Share about childhood, about his family, about his life, his dreams, his hopes.
They were friends first.
Between 2006 and 2009 Dr. Murray did treat Michael Jackson.
Tested his heart to see if that was ok."
Fundamental science (or basic science, pure science) is science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) that describes the most basic objects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_%28philosophy%29), forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force), relations between them and laws governing them, such that all other phenomena may be in principle derived from them following the logic of scientific reductionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_reductionism). Physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics) is a typical fundamental science, chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry) is often included. There is a difference between fundamental science and applied science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_science) (or practical science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_science)).[1] Fundamental science, in contrast to applied science, is defined as a fundamental knowledge it develops. The progress of fundamental science is based on well controlled experiments and careful observation. Fundamental science is dependent upon deductions from demonstrated truths, or is studied without regard to practical applicationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_science)
In 2006, Gilead completed two acquisitions that allowed the company to branch out from its historical antiviral franchise into the cardiovascular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiovascular) and respiratory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory) therapeutic arenas.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilead_Sciences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilead_Sciences)
[...]^^
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2100/conradlawyerscream.jpg)
SimPattyK you should give credit to the person when it is due.
[...]^^
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2100/conradlawyerscream.jpg)
SimPattyK you should give credit to the person when it is due.
BUT I DO ! I always DO! even if some people still copy my works with no credits at all... :roll:
@Im_convincedmjalive : OPEN your eyes please !
In case you haven't noticed... Why do you think I placed a screenshot from Youtube with the name of the video and the user's name enigma592 right in the MIDDLE of my photo-montage ??
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7281/image68m.jpg)
@Im_convincedmjalive - Just so you know: I feel offended by your insinuation !! I am an honest person ! and i don't like people accusing me of the exact thing I dislike the most: people copying and taking credits for other people's work!
@MJFAN7 - that's not fair! I was well into hoaxy court mode, then I saw your new sig and I've lost it again !
Im_convinced, it is almost statistically impossible that someone who made a professional copy of the California State Seal would add 32 stars as a mistake. This information is readily available on even the most basic Google search. It would have to be missed as an error at 5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting) before it's image became beamed across the world as a representation of the State seal.@bec-That would make sense IF an actual CA state seal that you could touch would have been made. In this day and age of the internet, photoshop and digital imaging there would be no need for:
Court is fake.
5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting)There is one TV station broadcasting this with feeds to the other stations. It is In Session who is responsible for the image of the CA state seal.
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."@monstertooty-Thank you for this info however it still is the In Session TV show who is responsible for the CA state seal being broadcast.
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
[...]It's good you admit that you found the video thanks to my specification there!
I found the video based on that small little piece of the youtube users name.
.......
Ok so the DR isn't a DR....the FBI guy is an actor....the seal is fake.........how much more evidence do you need? /bravo/
I’ve been thinking about the FBI’s involvement, the possible clues they’ve given and numerology.
As we all know, the FBI intended to release 333 pages on Michael Jackson on 12/21 but was delayed a day.
Here is the link I found when googling “Michael Jackson 333 pages”:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/de ... son_122209 (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/december/jackson_122209)
Here is the image with that article:
(http://www2.fbi.gov/headlines/mj260.jpg)
See how it clearly says “Michael Joe Jackson”. When you look at the actual 333 pages that were released, the always refer to him as “Michael Joe Jackson” or just “Michael Jackson”.
From the above link, there’s another link at the bottom of that page:
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)QuoteMichael Joseph Jackson
Michael Joseph Jackson, a celebrity pop star, was born on August 29, 1958. He died unexpectedly on June 25, 2009 at the age of 50.
Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Mr. Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases. The Bureau also investigated threats made against Mr. Jackson and others by an individual who was later imprisoned for these crimes.
So when the FBI is referring to Michael being dead, they call him “Michael Joseph Jackson”. Very interesting, wouldn’t you say? A deliberate clue like the DC and a subtle reference to an Elvis parallel with the middle name? The Elvis/FBI involvement has been discussed in this thread and many know that his full name is Elvis Aron Presley but on the grave stone it says “Elvis Aaron Presley”.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9WjB-Y99BuofwJItffKwOmhjcT0udv7VSdmq44ata8I4PoVJxpg)
Now let’s have some fun with math and numbers (words I never thought I would ever say! :lol: ).
There were 333 pages intended to be released on 12/21. 1221 being the time of the 911 call and a reference to the EOW date.
The release of these 333 pages were from 7 separate files.
In the first file, 111 pages were withheld. TS told us the importance of 111, being the fundamental number in the hoax. The This Is It movie is 111 minutes. Weird, right?
There’s a total of 675 FBI pages on Michael Jackson – 333 released and 342 withheld.
3+3+3=9
3+4+2=9
6+7+5=18 1+8=9
I was playing around and found this as well:
333 X 7= 2331 (2+3+3+1=9)
333 + 1998 (Dangerous autograph) = 2331
2331 / 111 = 21 (7,7,7)
And 2331-1221= 1110 then - 333= 777
Here’s the FBI’s recap of the 7 files:QuoteThis release consists of seven separate files, as described below:
9A-LA-142276: 1992 to 1993, 196 pages
This file details a Los Angeles field office investigation into extortion threats against Michael Jackson and others in 1992. The subject of this investigation pled guilty and was sentenced to prison in 1993.
A total of 111 pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices. Some information was referred to the U.S. Secret Service.
62D-LA-162715: September 16, 1993 to August 8, 1994, 56 pages
This file involves a Los Angeles field office investigation opened to assist local authorities with a child molestation case in 1993. The case never went to trial.
Ninety-five pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices.
62D-L0-11779: September 2, 1993 to October 22, 1993, 9 pages
This file was opened by the FBI’s legal attaché office in London when it assisted local authorities with a child molestation investigation in 1993.
Thirteen pages were withheld to protect personal privacy and the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence.
95A-HQ-1148159: October 30, 1995 to January 24, 1997, 8 pages
This file details a request made to the FBI to analyze a VHS videotape provided by the U.S. Customs Service as part of a child pornography investigation.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy. Four pages were referred to U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement for a release determination.
62D-LA-236081: January 15, 2004 to April 27, 2004, 41 pages
Our Los Angeles field office opened this file when it was asked by local authorities to provide forensic computer analysis assistance in a child molestation investigation in 2004. The examination of evidence in this case was conducted by the FBI’s Computer Analysis and Response Team (CART). Mr. Jackson was ultimately acquitted of these charges in a California court.
One hundred and twenty-three pages were withheld to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices or to prevent the disclosure of techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions.
305B-LA-239204: September 14, 2004 to December 9, 2004, 5 pages
This Los Angeles field office file was opened in 2004 to investigate child molestation allegations. Due to lack of witness cooperation, the case was closed.
252B-IR-6808: March 1, 2004 to June 29, 2005, 18 pages
This file involves a request made of the FBI's Critical Incident Response Group to provide advice and assistance to local authorities concerning a child molestation investigation in 2004.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy and internal rules and practices.
View each file from here: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)
So why would certain individuals in the FBI be involved with Michael? It "offically" started off because Michael’s life was threatened, then their involvement was with the molestation accusations. It’s entirely possible that the agents researching Michael uncovered a plot where someone(s) was out to destroy Michael. If these bad people couldn’t get close enough to kill him, they would extort him and attempt to destroy his career and reputation. Suddenly it doesn't seem so far-fetched that the FBI (not the whole Bureau but certain individuals) would help Michael with his long-planned hoax - because it helps keep Michael safe and they are able to flush out those people in Michael's life who were a danger to him. The numerology is important because it shows their involvement is deliberate and planned, as is everything else with the hoax.
the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
OT: has anyone bought Jermaine's recent book? I think Im going to buy it today...curious if he's dropped any clues in it :)
@Im_convinced, even a digital image has to be created by someone. You accept that this is simply a mistake? What original did this careless image creator copy from? How could they be so inept? How could their superior be so inept? How could 32 stars on an official state seal be missed by the entire chain of command responsible for providing this image on an "official" court TV broadcast?bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.
the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory.
[...]^^ Regarding this photo, I don't know if this video has already been posted, but it provides an interesting analysis ;)
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
[...]
OT: has anyone bought Jermaine's recent book? I think Im going to buy it today...curious if he's dropped any clues in it :)
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
This posted by TMZ this morning
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg)
Conrad Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, is a man of dramatic expressions.
Check out the pics from the last few days. Sometimes, non-verbal communications tell a good story.
TMZ has been dropping hints the last 2 years...
Thinking “where the heck is optical illusion here (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/10/ultimate-horses-illusion.html)“, ayeh? It’s right in front of you (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/03/impossible-cube-illusion.html) actually! If you observe this person’s face (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/12/reveresed-face-illusion.html) from up close, you’ll notice it has no eyes (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/12/double-dangerfield-illusion.html), nose nor mouth. How can this be, when it looks perfectly normal (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/09/margaret-thatcher-illusion.html) (apart from it being just a cartoon (http://www.moillusions.com/2007/02/panda-cartoon-illusion.html)). The answer is beneath the surface – the author, obviously talented son of a gun, managed to fool us by making multiple meaning illusion (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/05/multiple-meanings-category.html). The fingers are making illusion (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/09/tree-with-attitude.html) of a face! Simple, right? But how many of you would notice (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/11/notice-pointy-white-hats-in-back.html) this immediately, if I hadn’t written about it? Be honest…http://www.moillusions.com/2007/11/finger-face-illusion.html (http://www.moillusions.com/2007/11/finger-face-illusion.html)
(http://www.moillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/2.bp.blogspot.com/_cxmptAPYR-s/Ry-Ph7pR9wI/AAAAAAAABj8/7ybfamW-GYc/s400/new9858.gif)
Im_convinced, it is almost statistically impossible that someone who made a professional copy of the California State Seal would add 32 stars as a mistake. This information is readily available on even the most basic Google search. It would have to be missed as an error at 5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting) before it's image became beamed across the world as a representation of the State seal.@bec-That would make sense IF an actual CA state seal that you could touch would have been made. In this day and age of the internet, photoshop and digital imaging there would be no need for:
Court is fake.Quote5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting)There is one TV station broadcasting this with feeds to the other stations. It is In Session who is responsible for the image of the CA state seal.I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."@monstertooty-Thank you for this info however it still is the In Session TV show who is responsible for the CA state seal being broadcast.
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
@Anyone who wants to answer-IF this is a hoax court how can you explain the mistake of the CA state seal coming from MJ? Did he somehow convince the In Session media to put up the fake seal? Isn't part of this hoax a vendetta against the media? What is the end goal for having a hoax court?
My belief is someone made the mistake and it was never checked nor is it noticed because as most of us know the media lies, copies and pastes the news, does not verify information, etc. This is even more obvious now that the trial is going. The commentary after the court day is over and even during court is an obvious flaw in the media. There is nothing but blindness from the media. Only a few are reporting on the contradictions. They say it is because of a coverup and that's why the lies.
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death.
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner? And do you think it is likely that IF the seal is a photoshop by insession (if they are the ones providing the image), that they made a new photoshopped image of the seal just for this trial? And where is the source that shows us who this seal provides?@Souza-I can not answer the part about the judge because I didn't see that part. If you could tell me when he said that maybe I can find a youtube video so I can watch it and then answer. I can't say they made a new CA state seal just for this trial. They could of had this CA state seal all along for every trial they report on in CA. My use of the word photoshop is only to say it is a digital image.
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner?
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner?
As for this part of the question...I can say that what the judge did by pointing out the difference between exhibit 31 and 32 is not only perfectly normal for any judge to do...but it's also important for a judge to address the jury whenever there is a video/audio exhibit followed by a transcript. A jury will always be given these instructions (at least every court case I've watched, including most recently the Anthony trial)...a jury will be told to use the transcript as a guide but that if they hear something different, they are to use their own judgement as to what was said.
There's a lot of things I find to be 'weird' or 'funny' about Judge Pastor...but his instructions to the jury about exhibit 31 & 32 (and then again with a later exhibit) is definitely not one of them.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I really wish TS would chime in :?
I know that it is normal for a judge to explain, but he mentioned it not once, not twice, but at least 5 or 6 times with these specific exhibits. If he would just have mentioned the numbers once or twice, I wouldn't have bothered, but it definitely stood out for me and many others in chat at the same moment.
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Quote from: Heartsong on October 02, 2011, 05:56:19 AM
Quote from: voiceforthesilent on October 02, 2011, 03:37:11 AM
Quote from: TouchedByAnAngel on October 01, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Hi Everybody! So this trial is pretty interesting isn't it? For those that heard the alarm go off on Friday Sep. 30th, I heard it too. In fact just seconds after I started hearing the alarm during the trial I decided to make a tweet about it.
At the time I was just making a light-hearted tweet about the alarm to lighten the moment. Later when trial was over and I had more time to pay attention to Twitter, I noticed that somebody was claiming that the alarm had gone off at 2:26 pm California time, which is the time Michael was "officially declared dead". I went back to my tweet and checked the time I had sent it. It said I had sent it 3 hours earlier, and when I put my mouse over the "3 hours ago" link the actual time popped up. I'm in Texas which is two hours later than California time, so my 4:27 pm was 2:27 pm California time. Like I said, I heard the alarm go off, and after I laughed for a few seconds, I went and tweeted my message about Michael being a Joker. So, the alarm did go off at 2:26 California time!
This just confirms for me even more that Michael is sending us clues to Keep The Faith.
http://twitter.com/#!/TouchedByAngelM/status/119886098578145280
Love and Light to you all!
Thank you for the confirmation that the time on my computer is correct. I did post on Twitter too asking if anyone else noticed the time and I received a couple of confirmations saying the time was correct. Unless we have MJ's ghost in the house making his presence known that was a deliberate wake up call.
I loved reading what everyone else observed. I have noticed quite a few paralells to 2003-2005 events but I want to write it all down to see if it makes sense.
Blessings!
And did you hear Judge Pastor explanation as to why the alarm went off? "A child set it off". So there are children playing unsupervised in the courthouse during this trial freely touching whatever they want? Or maybe the judge meant an adult behaving like a child...
I'm still excited about this alarm going off at such a memorable time. I searched on Youtube and found the video so all can hear this if they missed it. Actually this YT account has all the testimony so far and it is very good quality, no commercial interruptions. I recommend that all bookmark this channel and/or subscribe because if he continues to upload all the testimony this will be a valuable resource. Also great for those that can't watch live because of timezone issues, work, etc.
So here is the video where you can hear the alarm going off in court. The alarm starts at 12:48 in video. I don't know if this is a standard fire alarm bell sequence, but it rings 7 times quickly, pauses for a second then rings 4 times quickly. It rings this combination of 7 + 4 a total of 4 times. At 14:45 in the video the judge explains that it was an accidental pull by a child on another floor.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ARKoqrLF70&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Well dang! Previewing my post as I create it, I've noticed that the person this video belongs to doesn't allow embedding. So you will have to click the video and let it open a new YT video window to watch. While you are there, remember to subscribe!
Does anybody remember Kenny Ortega saying on Day 1 of testimony that Michael was like a lost boy? This made me think of Peter Pan and just a minute after I had tweeted about MJ being a Joker and pulling the alarm, I also tweeted this
Well I think with all the conflicting testimony so far and the evidence full of mistakes, people really need to ask themselves "Is this real or a HOAX?" I've been on the hoax train for over 2 years and this trial sure hasn't changed my opinion, only strengthened it!
One last thing before I sign off...that "death bed" photo of MJ is crazy. I saved and zoomed in the original black/white photo that TMZ released on day 1 of the trial. (I know a clearer color image has been released since then) Anyway, I still say the arm looks fake, it's just too long. The band towards the wrist is supposedly the hospital armband (it's wider than any I've ever seen) and of course the legs can't be seen but it looks like there isn't enough room left on the bed for his long legs. Lastly I noticed that there appears to be a pyramid shape above his arm/elbow where the hospital gown is at. WTF is that about?
Quote from: Grace on October 02, 2011, 03:01:50 PM
Hahahaha, I missed the alarm - txs for posting. The faces are hilarious.
Sounds like an alarm clock, LOL, anybody wake-up, please? All sitting in the dark...
Or was it end of class?
Offtopic, but not completely:
I had a conversation with my colleague, yesterday, (male, married, 2 kids, doesn't care about anything about Michael except that yes, he did a few good songs. He comes up pretty tough at times trying to ridicule me - despite, despite he has noticed some serious wrong stuff is going on in the world, so we sometimes still find a level to talk, LOL).
I told him about the stuffed toys in court and the photo with the missing legs. We continued towards 9II and that a lie just needs to be big enough to be believed because people would say "I saw it with my own eyes" (through a TV channel) and they would be 100% sure they saw the truth.
If anything proves that a lie just needs to be big enough to be believed, it is Michael's disappearance and this trial.
Kick off a snowball with a few and the rest will fall into desired place.
If Michael can do it, anybody can do it.
Financial gamblers and governments included.
The longer this lie runs uncovered despite all obvious inconsistencies, the more this proves how manipulated we are.
Another realization:
the more others tell us and overwhelm us with their blabla, the less questions we are asking.
It is a tactic to fill us up and choke our mind.
End of offtopic. Gonna go watch the alarm again LOL
In this video, the alarm goes off when exhibit 22 is about to be presented.
The alarm in the video goes off in this sequence:
7 / 4 pause
7 / 4 pause
7 / 4 pause
7 / 4
which adds up (for those counting) to
22
4*11
------
66
There is more.
Exhibit 22 on google:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:WwPnOCKv89oJ:ussliberty.org/report/exhibit%25252022.pdf+exhibit+22&hl=en&gl=de&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjs45s_vauPnWRtmbUcTJe0r1E_Q5qfl5R-5pY7EXD3g7nKR5WpzTVlXCXS6lBpDr-Ycbb7zYErZIg7SvbcXtztWeWFRtEWVKuZRAkcmEfNxvrQqNOM1ZH5_6zWjjYTo51iv_in&sig=AHIEtbS7xYczci9Ft6E2keXHGSE9E_l5lA
It is about government exchange US - Israel on the Israelian attack on U.S.S. Liberty.
We had cover-ups before 9II.
Quote
On June 8, 1967 on a hot clear afternoon, Israeli air forces, combined later with naval forces, initiated an attack on an American intelligence vessel -- the USS Liberty.[1] The air-sea attack took 34 lives and injured 171 crewmen.[2] The Israeli government explained the attack was an error due to misidentification of the ship. The American government has officially accepted the Israeli apology, yet continues to conceal many facts of the incident from the American public. There was a disparity between the official history of this event and the accounts of the surviving crewmen of the Liberty. The disparity forces a more comprehensive explanation of the events. Investigation of the deliberateness of the attack and the response of the United States government, as well as the cultural and political context of the middle to late 1960s, is revealing. This factual and contextual evidence demonstrates that the attack was in fact intentional and subsequently covered-up by the United States government.
http://www.ussliberty.org/macdonald.htm
Quote
Richard A. Senneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene - but they tried to resuscitate him for 47 minutes without success ....
the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
But of course the "court" is not fake. Just most of the stuff in it. It is being held at the LA County courthouse.
But you have to remember a few small details:
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor. WTF??
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer.... lolol/
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
But of course the "court" is not fake. Just most of the stuff in it. It is being held at the LA County courthouse.
But you have to remember a few small details:
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor. WTF??
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer.... lolol/
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
Photos being shown in court, I have my doubts they are actual photos. Why?Michael had very GOOD taste in just about everything he bought.
<img src="http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/michael-jackson-bedroom-photos.jpg (http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/michael-jackson-bedroom-photos.jpg)">
This bedroom does not tell me someone IMPORTANT slept there...sorry. Mis matched furniture. Tv just sitting on a table?
And does it resemble the following article?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5929565/Michael-Jackson-slept-with-child-sized-porcelain-doll-in-dress.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5929565/Michael-Jackson-slept-with-child-sized-porcelain-doll-in-dress.html)
<b>The policeman told the newspaper: “The temperature upstairs was stiflingly hot, with gas fireplaces and the heating system on high because Jackson always complained of feeling cold.
“The singer’s bedroom was a mess, with items seemingly thrown about and some 20 handwritten notes stuck on the walls. A porcelain girl doll wearing a dress was found on top of the covers of the bed where he slept.”</b>
Where did the doll go? What notes? The bedroom doesn't look messy to me.
Gas fireplace? Really? The one shown in this photo is NOT a gas fireplace, you don't need a poker for a gas fireplace...it's a LOG fireplace. WTF??
This posted by TMZ this morning
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg)">
Conrad Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, is a man of dramatic expressions.
Check out the pics from the last few days. Sometimes, non-verbal communications tell a good story.
TMZ has been dropping hints the last 2 years...
tweet from paris 15 mins ago
pariisjaxn Pαris Jαcksoη
#TheyNeedToBringBack Bad; Every One Says Swag Now
Another Bad reference.....
also, in regards to the seal:
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death.
In the ambulance pic the eyes are closed. What the paramedics and Dr. Cooper say contradict the ambulance picture, so what can this mean?
1. Ben simply faked the ambulance pic and found some fools to buy it --> MJ is dead or
2.The paramedics and Dr. Cooper are in the hoax --> MJ is alive BUT I find it hard to believe these people are in the hoax after listening their testimonies. They just don't seem to act. They are real people and not actors. IMO they just tell what they saw. So the next option is
I just wanted to ask you guys about the "eyes-question". Don't know if it was discussed.
As far as I heard well - all of the paramedics estified Michael had his eyes wide open, fixed in the ceiling or something. I also remember Jermaine's statement that he personally closed Michael's eyes in the hospital. Yet in the ambulance photo and on this gurney we can see MJ with his eyes closed... Please, correct me if i am mixing something... suspicious//
PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
ok California's seals:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23065916@N04/3234775431/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23065916@N04/3234775431/)
<img src="http://www.frontiernet.net/~ldier/court_10.jpg (http://www.frontiernet.net/~ldier/court_10.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.illuminationarts.com/wla_court_web.jpg (http://www.illuminationarts.com/wla_court_web.jpg)">
So what I can gather is, the seal is proudly displayed on the wall in EVERY court room...if the media is zooming in on an actual "seal" displayed in the court room, then in fact the seal is faked.
I just wanted to ask you guys about the "eyes-question". Don't know if it was discussed.
As far as I heard well - all of the paramedics estified Michael had his eyes wide open, fixed in the ceiling or something. I also remember Jermaine's statement that he personally closed Michael's eyes in the hospital. Yet in the ambulance photo and on this gurney we can see MJ with his eyes closed... Please, correct me if i am mixing something... suspicious//
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry.
EXACTLY YES! That's what I think also. Especially in Hollywood, docs are spreading celebrities all these drugs like they are candy. So, I definitely believe the sting is against the medical industry.
Great post! And I agree about the medical industry being a possible target. It's one that I'm sure would be very personal to Mike (loss of friends, for example, James Brown) due to negligence/corruption of doctors, not to mention how the focus of the medical community has become increasingly centered on money/greed, rather than on "doing no harm"--especially in California. There's been report after report about how, in North America, at least...drug addiction has skyrocketed with prescription drugs as the drugs of choice (rather than 'street' and/or illegal drugs). The biggest difference, though, is that the ONLY way to get addicted to prescription drugs (even if purchased on the street)...is through a doctor's prescription. The 'spotlight' shines brighter on California due to the glitter of Hollywood...but it is just a reflection of what is taking place across the country.
I can definitely see MJ, with the help of the FBI, going after the medical industry (from pharmaceutical companies--that have infiltrated government, to doctors, to pharmacies and everything inbetween).
With L.O.V.E. always.
I agree that the medical industry/pharmaceutical companies being a target of the sting. I'm going to go beyond shady doctors and I've said this before but I'll say it again, hopefully in a condensed version. Basically it's all about money. One of the major pharm companies, Baxter, was investigated a few years ago for creating the avian flu virus and sending it to 18 third world countries in the form of vaccinations. Purposely infect people living in sub-standard over-crowded conditions so the virus would run wild and kill a lot of innocent people. You have George W telling Americans that millions of Americans will die from Avian flu and you have the media pounding it into your brain as well. Meanwhile, sales of Baxter's tamiflu are flying off the shelves. The same could be said about swine flu, only this time vaccinations were made available almost immediately (those patents were applied for a couple years before the outbreak). I didn't get the shot myself after researching the ingredients, which included mercury and other carcinogens - basically things that can make you very ill down the road and leave you once again dependent on meds/treatments from the pharm companies. "Sickening", right?
Back in the early 1900s, John D Rockefeller hired a guy named Flexnor to go around the country and evaluate all the medical facilities, in what became known as the Flexnor Report. Based on his findings, over half the medical facilities in the U.S. were shut down - basically ALL the ones that were NOT prescribing "modern" medicine, but were prescribing alternative/natural medicines or treatments. Since there was no $ in it for Rockefeller's drug company, they got shut down. Plus, natural/alternative treatments have been shown to actually cure a person, and the pharmaceutical companies can't have that since they need people dependent on their treatments -which don't cure you, just make your condition manageable so you always have to pay for meds and treatments. Just think of their methods to "cure" a person - burn it out (radiation), poison it out or cut it out. Natural remedies, however, are from the Earth and I do believe that God created the Earth so that we have everything we need to help ourselves, naturally.
I'm not saying that all modern medicine is evil but when you have a select few that determine who gets what, and inventing diseases to sell "cures", it's not good and has to be stopped. Then they team up with the other branches in society that they control - governments and media - to spread fear into the population. Don't buy into it. (That was as condensed as I could get, LOL).
PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry.
EXACTLY YES! That's what I think also. Especially in Hollywood, docs are spreading celebrities all these drugs like they are candy. So, I definitely believe the sting is against the medical industry.
As the wonderful Teddy Riley would say, "Yup Yup"
PureLove-What is the DA banner? DA stands for Distric Attorney which is the prosecutor. I did not say coincidence at all. The name spelled wrong is a blatant in your face mistake on purpose. The defense made the wrong name on the board they presented in court. I was explaining the EMT report could be a simple mistake that happens alot more than it does not. I was saying the middle name Joe vs Joseph is what my answer to bec was about.PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
PureLove-What is the DA banner? DA stands for Distric Attorney which is the prosecutor. I did not say coincidence at all. The name spelled wrong is a blatant in your face mistake on purpose. The defense made the wrong name on the board they presented in court. I was explaining the EMT report could be a simple mistake that happens alot more than it does not. I was saying the middle name Joe vs Joseph is what my answer to bec was about.PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
Keep your good luck to yourself k.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
@Im_convinced, even a digital image has to be created by someone. You accept that this is simply a mistake? What original did this careless image creator copy from? How could they be so inept? How could their superior be so inept? How could 32 stars on an official state seal be missed by the entire chain of command responsible for providing this image on an "official" court TV broadcast?bec-This is the comment I am referring to when I made my comment to you. IF your intentions at this time were to point out the N typo you didn't specify that. I was thinking you were referring to his middle name being wrong. Over in the "back" thread I just recently read that you posted this pic and spoke on the N thing. I am not confused. This comment of yours is in this thread on page 21. In Session is the ONLY TV station in the courtroom. Every other station has to lease the footage. How can you explain the live feed that the other stations are broadcasting are coming from a camera MJ has set up? Did he do a McGyver and somehow interrupted the live feed from In Session and diverted to the other stations? Your theory doesn't make sense. I am so over the CA state seal. I am moving on. bangbang
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.
I didn't say anything about Joe/Joseph nor did I post a pic that said Joe/Joseph. I posted the pic that said "pronouced". Im_convinced you're either terribly mistaken or you are being disingenuous.
This is a movie. Court is a MJJ production. The seal is being broadcasted by MJJ's cameras. The media companies are unaware of this. They believe they are broadcasting the CourtTV live stream when in fact it is MJJ Productions live stream. They are being fooled. They are being hoaxed.
Thanks for your insight as well Looking4Truth ::P
I've been going over some of the levels we've already been through...and it's becoming increasing clear to me why we HAD to go through those levels...not to mention TS' 'purpose' from the start. Although Mike is a prankster, the journey we've had with TS from the beginning has been anything but a 'joke'. The posts were detailed enough to plant seeds, stimulate the mind, heighten awareness, and a desire for truth (when was the last time you were this excited in your life, as you have been over the last two years in reading TS' posts?). BUT...not detailed enough to lead us to complete truth...at least not yet. To be able to keep an audience on the edge of their seats for almost 2 years...while educating them, awakening them...is simply a work of beauty at the level of genius.
As for the 'seal' issue that the last few pages have been about...it's clearly fake, everyone seems to agree on that. The 'debate' seems to be centered on 'proving' whether or not Mike intentionally had the 'fake' seal strategically placed (and to a lesser extent, if so 'why'?)...or if it was an error by whichever media outlet runs it.
The only 'support' I could give the media error theory would be...it somehow got messed up by whoever made it...they realized it was messed up but ran it anyway hoping no one would notice (and trust me, we're the only ones that did :lol: )...either due to costs, time frame, whatever. Or they still haven't realized that it's wrong :?
While it is 'plausible,' my biggest problem(s) with it is how the heck was this sort of error made in the first place---I know human error is rampant, we're not perfect---but you'd think that for a trial with worldwide interest...streaming live...not to mention the complete focus every single time camera coverage is cut off in court...they'd be more careful with the SEAL of their state! This 'seal' was created for this trial, and this trial alone. Knowing all this, if I was the person making the seal or their supervisor...THE 'seal' for the Michael Jackson Death Trial...I'd be checking it once, checking it twice...and then having someone else to the same for me...every single detail of it.
So, I am leaning more towards it being intentionally placed...I haven't heard or seen enough yet to know, or at least understand, why. But I'm watchin'.
No matter which side one is leaning to, we should try to keep it 'investigative' and not sweat the small stuff. No matter how far down you're leaning on either side of the 'debate'...none of us can touch our toes just yet...about anything. While some may have already guessed or figured out certain 'pieces'...no one has yet to 'piece' it all together. Our only hope of doing that is by working as a TEAM.
It's a Thriller remember?...Mike, much like TS ;) , is gonna hold something back til the very end...even for us 'beLIEvers' ;) .
With L.O.V.E. always.
Thanks for your insight as well Looking4Truth ::P
I've been going over some of the levels we've already been through...and it's becoming increasing clear to me why we HAD to go through those levels...not to mention TS' 'purpose' from the start. Although Mike is a prankster, the journey we've had with TS from the beginning has been anything but a 'joke'. The posts were detailed enough to plant seeds, stimulate the mind, heighten awareness, and a desire for truth (when was the last time you were this excited in your life, as you have been over the last two years in reading TS' posts?). BUT...not detailed enough to lead us to complete truth...at least not yet. To be able to keep an audience on the edge of their seats for almost 2 years...while educating them, awakening them...is simply a work of beauty at the level of genius.
As for the 'seal' issue that the last few pages have been about...it's clearly fake, everyone seems to agree on that. The 'debate' seems to be centered on 'proving' whether or not Mike intentionally had the 'fake' seal strategically placed (and to a lesser extent, if so 'why'?)...or if it was an error by whichever media outlet runs it.
The only 'support' I could give the media error theory would be...it somehow got messed up by whoever made it...they realized it was messed up but ran it anyway hoping no one would notice (and trust me, we're the only ones that did :lol: )...either due to costs, time frame, whatever. Or they still haven't realized that it's wrong :?
While it is 'plausible,' my biggest problem(s) with it is how the heck was this sort of error made in the first place---I know human error is rampant, we're not perfect---but you'd think that for a trial with worldwide interest...streaming live...not to mention the complete focus every single time camera coverage is cut off in court...they'd be more careful with the SEAL of their state! This 'seal' was created for this trial, and this trial alone. Knowing all this, if I was the person making the seal or their supervisor...THE 'seal' for the Michael Jackson Death Trial...I'd be checking it once, checking it twice...and then having someone else to the same for me...every single detail of it.
So, I am leaning more towards it being intentionally placed...I haven't heard or seen enough yet to know, or at least understand, why. But I'm watchin'.
No matter which side one is leaning to, we should try to keep it 'investigative' and not sweat the small stuff. No matter how far down you're leaning on either side of the 'debate'...none of us can touch our toes just yet...about anything. While some may have already guessed or figured out certain 'pieces'...no one has yet to 'piece' it all together. Our only hope of doing that is by working as a TEAM.
It's a Thriller remember?...Mike, much like TS ;) , is gonna hold something back til the very end...even for us 'beLIEvers' ;) .
With L.O.V.E. always.
.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
PureLove-What is the DA banner? DA stands for Distric Attorney which is the prosecutor. I did not say coincidence at all. The name spelled wrong is a blatant in your face mistake on purpose. The defense made the wrong name on the board they presented in court. I was explaining the EMT report could be a simple mistake that happens alot more than it does not. I was saying the middle name Joe vs Joseph is what my answer to bec was about.PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
Keep your good luck to yourself k.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
@Im_convinced, even a digital image has to be created by someone. You accept that this is simply a mistake? What original did this careless image creator copy from? How could they be so inept? How could their superior be so inept? How could 32 stars on an official state seal be missed by the entire chain of command responsible for providing this image on an "official" court TV broadcast?bec-This is the comment I am referring to when I made my comment to you. IF your intentions at this time were to point out the N typo you didn't specify that. I was thinking you were referring to his middle name being wrong. Over in the "back" thread I just recently read that you posted this pic and spoke on the N thing. I am not confused. This comment of yours is in this thread on page 21. In Session is the ONLY TV station in the courtroom. Every other station has to lease the footage. How can you explain the live feed that the other stations are broadcasting are coming from a camera MJ has set up? Did he do a McGyver and somehow interrupted the live feed from In Session and diverted to the other stations? Your theory doesn't make sense. I am so over the CA state seal. I am moving on. bangbang
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.I didn't say anything about Joe/Joseph nor did I post a pic that said Joe/Joseph. I posted the pic that said "pronouced". Im_convinced you're either terribly mistaken or you are being disingenuous.
This is a movie. Court is a MJJ production. The seal is being broadcasted by MJJ's cameras. The media companies are unaware of this. They believe they are broadcasting the CourtTV live stream when in fact it is MJJ Productions live stream. They are being fooled. They are being hoaxed.
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor.
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer....
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
Still I believe the 32 stars on the Cali seal point to the U.S. flag because that one has 32 stars for sure. There is a smal flag with stripes only in the plant on the court reporter's desk, too.
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
It's not only California state seal which is fake. Remember the coroner report and the seal on it? It had the old one that was used before 2004 which is not valid no more.
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
It would be really great if someone could collaborate with you on this one. I didn't hear this but I was 10 min late to tune in. If anyone can back this up please pipe in. Sting Court side has already conceded the subject but confirmation of your observation would seal the deal. (no pun intended)
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death.
In the ambulance pic the eyes are closed. What the paramedics and Dr. Cooper say contradict the ambulance picture, so what can this mean?
1. Ben simply faked the ambulance pic and found some fools to buy it --> MJ is dead or
2.The paramedics and Dr. Cooper are in the hoax --> MJ is alive BUT I find it hard to believe these people are in the hoax after listening their testimonies. They just don't seem to act. They are real people and not actors. IMO they just tell what they saw. So the next option is
But if they are in service to the FBI, that changes everything. Do not you think?
By the way, someone said on twitter that Murray left the court in an official car Of U.S.. Can anyone confirm this?
As for the I am so over the CA state seal and I am moving on, well that is not a white flag raised. It's more like going back and forth beating the issue to death is nonproductive, wastes energy and time. In the end I can't make people believe what I say just like those who think it is fake and planted by MJ wont convince the ones who think it is a mistake only. In the end I agree to disagree and keep the respect/ for all.
Hello everyone. Im not a new member although this is my first post in this forum, I have been here since the original mjhd.com ;) .
I wanted to ask someone to post the latest video from 'mjhoaxevidence' on youtube here. Its very relevant as it speaks about the "death photo" used in trial. It is a fact that the photo is not a valid photo taken of a dead MJ on June 25th 2009. On a side note, if you noticed in the photo, it appears he has an IV hooked up to him, possibly through his nostrils. This is not done on a dead patient only ones who are already alive and stable. They would have alledgedly been trying to resuscitate him and an IV would not be needed.
Has everyone steeled themselves for what we might be about to encounter this coming week?
Keep your eyes and ears peeled (as my dear dad says).
Last week was only week 1 and look what we have ascertained from it already...things can only get......more interesting????
Keep the faith guys
bearhug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAs3MMg2DfEToo funny! Here is another clip!
maybe this link have been post before, if not...enjoy the sting in the court.
PlotBarry B. Benson (Jerry Seinfeld) is "just an ordinary bee" in a hive located in Sheep's Meadow in Central Park in New York City. Barry recently graduated from college and is about to enter the hive's Honex Industries (a division of Honesco Corporation and owned by the Hexagon Group) honey-making workforce. Along with his best friend Adam Flayman (Matthew Broderick), Barry is initially very excited, but his latent, non-conformist attitude emerges upon finding out that his choice of job will never change once picked. This prompts Barry to leave the hive and see the world on a daily run with the macho, elite "Pollen Jocks", though Adam tries to talk Barry out of it. He thoroughly enjoys his new freedom, and is impressed by the process of nectar collection and pollination, but after being stuck to a tennis ball during a game and flying through a panicky family's car he decides humans are crazy and that he should go home. Unfortunately, it begins to rain and he crash lands on a windowsill. The apartment's occupants have just come home and they close the window before Barry can escape. After freaking out the people inside and nearly being squashed, he is rescued by a female florist human named Vanessa Bloome (Renée Zellweger) and gently put back outside. This unexpected act of kindness intrigues Barry, who goes back in to thank the woman even though doing so would violate Bee Law #1, "Don't talk to humans". Despite both of their expectations they develop an instant bond, bordering on attraction, and start hanging out together frequently. Of course all of their friends and family are completely upset by this relationship.
While they are going through a grocery store, Barry is shocked to discover that the humans have been stealing and eating the bees' honey for centuries, and decides to journey to Honey Farms, which supplies the grocery store with its honey. On the Honey Farms truck, he meets a mosquito named Mooseblood (Chris Rock). A windshield wiper flings the two in a tube and Barry tells Mooseblood about Honey Farms while Mooseblood tells him about how humans have always swatted mosquitoes. Mooseblood departs when he sees a Blood Mobile pass by, while Barry goes on to witness the artificial process by which the honey is gathered. He ultimately realizes that his true calling in life is to set the world right by suing the human race for stealing their precious honey. This is later shown on Hive at Five's especially on Bee Larry King starring a bee version of Larry King (voiced by Larry King). The trial initially goes well, until the main defense lawyer (John Goodman) goads Adam into stinging him by accusing Barry of several things which are insulting to the bees (having a pet-like relationship with Vanessa, being an illegitimate son, since all bees are sons of the queen bee and having incestuous flirtings with the female bees, since all bees are siblings) in order to show the less lovable side of bees, but Barry counters by producing the smoke-machine used by Honey Farms to drug and subdue their bees.
Barry wins the lawsuit, and all honey in the world is confiscated and returned to the bees. However, the defense lawyer warns them they are disrupting nature's balance meaning that the bees quit their jobs, which Adam comments to Vanessa that it might be true since bees had been living their previous lives over 27 million years. Too late, Barry and Vanessa realize that they were right: the sudden, massive stockpile of honey has put every bee out of a job, including the vitally important Pollen Jocks. Without bees pollinating the flowers, all plant life begins dying with the entire food chain close behind. To set things right, he and Vanessa find a way to save all the flowers by going to the Tournament of Roses Parade in Pasadena, California and bringing back with them all the pollen-filled flowers to re-pollinate the world. Barry and Vanessa fly the flowers as luggage on a flight from Los Angeles International Airport to John F. Kennedy International Airport. The flight begins to take a detour due to lightning, which would be fatal to the flowers, and in trying to intervene Barry accidentally knocks out the terrified pilots. Vanessa joins him and tries unsuccessfully to fly the plane, but in the meantime millions of bees have rallied together and arrive at the last minute to help them safely land.
Armed with the pollen of the last flowers, Barry and the Pollen Jocks manage to reverse the damage and save the world's flowers, also restarting the bees' beloved honey production. Nothing is mentioned about the fate of companies like Honey Farms, though humans and bees are seen treating each other visibly better, and honey is supposed to be 'Bee approved'. Barry becomes a member of the Pollen Jocks while Adam is working as a krelman, helping to pollinate the plants while also running a law firm inside Vanessa's flower shop, as well as helping Vanessa, switching the name from "Vanessa's Flowers" to "Vanessa and Barry: Flowers; Honey; Legal Advice". As the film closes, his office door reads "Insects at Law." Mooseblood also works in his office with him as a lawyer(stating that he is already a bloodsucking parasite and only needed a briefcase), which is shown when Barry is interviewing a cow about the human exploitation of her milk.
hey don't mass produce california seals for television ( the ones in the court rooms are there permanently)When I see the 2 typical courtrooms you posted, it sure seems to me that the Murray trial seating arrangement is totally different. Can anyone tell me where the jury, and family with other supporters are seated? Shouldn't the jury be to the left of the judge, and are those the family and friends behind the lawyers?
The seal stays in the court room, it's not a prop they just put up and take down, so someone mentioning that In Session "made it for TV" is nonsense. I'm starting to believe the whole courtroom is fake and they are filming in a tiny room somewhere in the courthouse and not in an actual courtroom...maybe the cafeteria?
The seal was faked for a reason..I'm 1000000000% sure of it and I'm beginning to believe this is not an actual courtroom.
Damn, I wish I had a traffic violation in that courthouse so I can look around and see what room that trial is being held in, but I assume they have "security" all over that building!
It makes no sense to make a remake of the original CA seal and combine things from the US flag, like take the number of stars from there, put them there, make a whole potpurri of things and create the CA seal. Jesus, it's a fucking court. It's not a kiddie improvisation game to see what can come out from morphing the US flag with the CA seal. A state seal is a state seal.Still I believe the 32 stars on the Cali seal point to the U.S. flag because that one has 32 stars for sure. There is a smal flag with stripes only in the plant on the court reporter's desk, too.
There are 50 stars on the U.S. flag and 13 stripes. They represent the number of states and original colonies respectively.
California's Great Seal
[...]
Use:
The Great Seal is for the official use of the Governor. The Secretary of State has the custody of the Great Seal and shall:
keep a register and attest the official acts of the Governor and shall affix the Great Seal, with his attestation, to commissions, pardons, and other public instruments, to which the official signature of the Governor is required. (California Government Code. sec. 12162)
It would be really great if someone could collaborate with you on this one. I didn't hear this but I was 10 min late to tune in. If anyone can back this up please pipe in. Sting Court side has already conceded the subject but confirmation of your observation would seal the deal. (no pun intended)TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
It's not only California state seal which is fake. Remember the coroner report and the seal on it? It had the old one that was used before 2004 which is not valid no more.
Yes I remember, I just couldn't remember which document it was. Thanks PureLove. More then one fake seal in the death of MJ. We've also seen wrong names on documents many times. The Death Certificate even has "this is a legal document" on it. These things negate the preceding. A forged signature negates a contract or agreement. A fake seal negates a document. This is how forgeries are prevented.
The FBI files trip me up when attempting to debate no involvement there (100% Hoax Court). They are damning evidence of FBI involvement. MJ has to have at least one key person at the FBI, probably more then one.... but when it comes to making the leap to a Sting (a theory few considered plausible until championed by TS), I'm at a loss as to who or what would be flushed out by MJ being "dead". We haven't seen anything in the course of the past 27 months to support a Sting on anyone/anything... except the media and the fans.
How to explain FBI involvement without a Sting... I'm not for certain yet... but I'm also not certain that FBI involvement has to = Sting.
I can’t hep but keep thinking about that gurney. It doesn’t look current for some reason. Maybe I’m looking too hard at that. But it looks somehow outdated. I’ve been trying to find pictures of the emerg room at that hospital to compare it. Might not be anything, but it just looks strange to me. WTF??
It makes no sense to make a remake of the original CA seal and combine things from the US flag, like take the number of stars from there, put them there, make a whole potpurri of things and create the CA seal.
@MJFAN7 - that's not fair! I was well into hoaxy court mode, then I saw your new sig and I've lost it again !
sorryyy (:
:twisted: :lol: :lol:
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
All very good support for Hoax Court theory... however I am fairly convinced it's MJ's voice on the recording... but you're right that it doesn't sound like him, and we haven't heard anything about it being verified with voice forensics.
(I suppose the point there is they offer up voice forensics to help sell an album but not to verify evidence in a criminal trial. we will have to keep watching to see what happens when this evidence is submitted.)
Memos shed light on CIA use of sleep deprivation
Though widely perceived as more effective and less objectionable than other interrogation methods, memos show it's harsher and more controversial than most realize. And it could be brought back.
May 10, 2009|Greg Miller WASHINGTON
As President Obama prepared last month to release secret memos on the CIA's use of severe interrogation methods, the White House fielded a flurry of last-minute appeals.
One came from former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden, who expressed disbelief that the administration was prepared to expose methods it might later decide it needed.(http://articles.latimes.com/images/pixel.gif)"Are you telling me that under all conditions of threat, you will never interfere with the sleep cycle of a detainee?" Hayden asked a top White House official, according to sources familiar with the exchange.
From the beginning, sleep deprivation had been one of the most important elements in the CIA's interrogation program, used to help break dozens of suspected terrorists, far more than the most violent approaches. And it is among the methods the agency fought hardest to keep.
The technique is now prohibited by President Obama's ban in January on harsh interrogation methods, although a task force is reviewing its use along with other interrogation methods the agency might employ in the future.
Because of its effectiveness -- as well as the perception that it was less objectionable than waterboarding, head-slamming or forced nudity -- sleep deprivation may be seen as a tempting technique to restore.
But the Justice Department memos released last month by Obama, as well as information provided by officials familiar with the program, indicate that the method, which involves forcing chained prisoners to stand, sometimes for days on end, was more controversial within the U.S. intelligence community than was widely known.
A CIA inspector general's report issued in 2004 was more critical of the agency's use of sleep deprivation than it was of any other method besides waterboarding, according to officials familiar with the document, because of how the technique was applied.
The prisoners had their feet shackled to the floor and their hands cuffed close to their chins, according to the Justice Department memos.
Detainees were clad only in diapers and not allowed to feed themselves. A prisoner who started to drift off to sleep would tilt over and be caught by his chains.
The memos said that more than 25 of the CIA's prisoners were subjected to sleep deprivation. At one point, the agency was allowed to keep prisoners awake for as long as 11 days; the limit was later reduced to just over a week.
According to the memos, medical personnel were to make sure prisoners weren't injured. But a 2007 Red Cross report on the CIA program said that detainees' wrists and ankles bore scars from their shackles.
When detainees could no longer stand, they could be laid on the prison floor with their limbs "anchored to a far point on the floor in such a manner that the arms cannot be bent or used for balance or comfort," a May 10, 2005, memo said.
"The position is sufficiently uncomfortable to detainees to deprive them of unbroken sleep, while allowing their lower limbs to recover from the effects of standing," it said.
In the Red Cross report, prisoners said they were also subjected to loud music and repetitive noise.
"I was kept sitting on a chair, shackled by hands and feet for two to three weeks," said suspected Al Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, the first prisoner captured by the CIA, according to the Red Cross report. "If I started to fall asleep, a guard would come and spray water in my face."
In the Justice Department memos, sleep deprivation was described as part of a "baseline" phase of interrogation, categorized as less severe than other "corrective" or "coercive" methods.
Within the CIA, sleep deprivation was seen as a method with the unique advantage of eroding prisoners' will to resist without causing lasting harm.
"Waterboarding was obviously the most controversial," said a former senior U.S. government official who was briefed extensively on CIA interrogation operations. But "sleep deprivation is probably the most effective thing they had going."
Facing congressional efforts in 2005 and 2006 to block the use of certain techniques, CIA lawyers and Bush administration officials lobbied to keep a core set of methods, including sleep deprivation.
In 2007, after a U.S. Supreme Court ruling compelled the White House to bring the CIA program into compliance with the Geneva Convention, President Bush signed an executive order that outlined detainees' rights to the "basic necessities of life." The order listed "adequate food and water, shelter from the elements, necessary clothing" and protection from extreme heat and cold. But it made no mention of sleep as a basic necessity.
Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said sleep deprivation multiplied the coercive power of other techniques that included face-slapping and confinement in small boxes.
"It was viewed as a tool that enabled all the others," said a former CIA official directly involved in the program. The former official, like others, described internal thinking on condition of anonymity.
The Justice Department memos also cited research that suggested sleep deprivation was not harmful.
"Experience with sleep deprivation shows that 'surprisingly, little seemed to go wrong with the subjects physically,' " said the May 10, 2005, Justice Department memo -- one of many instances in which government lawyers cited scientific papers in asserting that the program was safe.
But some authors of those studies have since said that the conclusions of their research were grossly misapplied.
James Horne, director of the Sleep Research Center at Loughborough University in Britain, said he was never consulted by U.S. officials and didn't know how his work was being used until the memos were released.
"My response was shocked concern," Horne said in an e-mail interview. Just because the pain of sleep deprivation "can't be measured in terms of physical injury or appearance . . . does not mean that the mental anguish is not as bad."
Horne said that it was dangerous for the CIA to extrapolate from independent research in which subjects had gone for as long as a week without sleep, voluntarily, and were free to eat, rest, watch television or leave the research facility at any time. By contrast, CIA prisoners were subjected to major additional stresses that risk physical and mental collapse.
"To claim that 180 hours is safe in these respects is nonsense," Horne wrote in a separate online posting. Even if sleep deprivation succeeded in getting prisoners to talk, he said, "I would doubt whether the state of mind would be able to produce credible information, unaffected by delusion, fantasy or suggestibility."
--
greg.miller@latimes.com
Going back to the 'no body' used, 'dummy', or 'real body' (of someone other than MJ) theories...and based only on what we've heard so far in trial (this, of course, may change as more witnesses are questioned and we hear even more discrepancies)...this is what we have so far:
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
It could just be me but, if you pay attention to the seal before it starts in the morning or when ever they take a break, it doesn't look like they zoom in on the seal. In the morning we see the seal and then the next thing we see is the judge sitting on the bench. The camera doesn't move. It's almost like the camera cuts off and the seal is on stand-by. It does the same thing when they are on break. The last thing you see normally is the judge and then then it cuts off and goes back to the seal. Again it doesn't look like the camera moves let alone zoom in at all.
One more thing with the seal.....the background of it. The background we see on TV has a bunch of wooden lines/planks/boards...something behind it.......it's not a solid surface. Where is that background in the court? The walls I see behind the judge, around the room etc are solid. Maybe it's just one area that has all the lines? Seems odd it would be that way.......reminds me of "read between the lines"
Thanks for the photos.....it's such a help to me.
Blessings
I wasn't trying to prove there was no seal behind the judge although there isn't one as you pointed out. If that was what I was saying I would have wrote it. I was referencing the wall PANELLING which is smooth in the screen grab from the court room. The panel wall background on the seal that the TV station puts up has individual slats. The exact same questions you presented to me can be asked of you to prove that this seal we see when the camera goes off is actually real and somewhere in the courtroom and or court building. Can you prove this is a hoax seal made by someone in MJ's camp? Can you prove it comes from somewhere else and is fed to the courtroom camera? bangbangLook at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Yes it appears that only one TV station is live and is feeding all the other stations.
http://www.trutv.com/about/insession/index.htmlQuoteIn Session Trial Footage Archive
The Leader in Trial Coverage
IN SESSION (previously Court TV) is the only television network to serve as a window into the American justice system. Programming consists of live coverage of criminal and civil trials from around the country, as well as expert analysis from the network's award-winning legal journalists. The network has covered more than 950 trials since its inception and is considered the leading media outlet for trial coverage by many in and out of the courtroom.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/about/insession/grab-trial_screenshots.jpg)
The Leader in Trial Content
With nearly 90,000 hours of raw courtroom footage, including many high-profile celebrity cases, IN SESSION (and previously as Court TV) has covered both criminal and civil trials. The archive contains courtroom action from opening statements to verdict and sentencing.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/ssi/sect/2.0/blogs/cnninsession/insession.header.jpg)QuoteAbout this blog
Your online home for HLN and In Session on truTV’s up-to-the minute, comprehensive coverage of the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Our anchors, analysts and producers are teaming up here for trial reporting and observations that stretch from what witnesses and attorneys are saying in the L.A. court room to what you’re saying in the office break room.
From opening statements to closing arguments, you won’t miss a bit of powerful testimony as a California jury weighs whether Murray is to blame for the death of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.
Be sure to tune in to In Session on tru TV from 9 a.m. – 3 p.m. ET and HLN ALL day for LIVE wall-to-wall coverage and key analysis of the trial.
Going back to the 'no body' used, 'dummy', or 'real body' (of someone other than MJ) theories...and based only on what we've heard so far in trial (this, of course, may change as more witnesses are questioned and we hear even more discrepancies)...this is what we have so far:
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
While I have not ruled out the "real dead body" theory, for me it's unlikely. I remember reading back in July 2009 that Michael initially had 36 people "in on it". I can't remember where I read that or where that number came from, it could've been pulled from the air for all I know. But that could definitely be enough people to pull it off, that day. As the FBI are involved with some sort of sting, it's reasonable to think that these key people must follow the hoax/sting script and most likely signed confidentiality agreements. No one who testified false events can get in trouble, because the trial is not legit, the seal alone tells us that. But like I said, I won't rule out the real body, as I wasn't there and didn't see what happened (or didn't happen). Michael himself could've taken the ambulance ride then hopped out and headed straight for the airport.
Thanks ForstAMoon!
Another thing for people who have access to HLN, Dr. Drew will be discussing the conflicting stories surrounding his death and the conflicting testimonies (finally).
Im surprised no one has mentioned the doctor who appeared on his show last week. He was Michaels personal doctor and friend when Michael was in Ireland. He had alot of interesting things to say including that his death doesn't "make sense". And he mentioned not wanting to sound like a "conspiracy theorist" but he noticed what we did long ago regarding the coincidence with the way he died and the insurance policy etc. He also mentioned that Michael lied and exaggerated his illness' and drug addiction to the media for other purposes he never mentioned. He sounded like he was either "in the know" or he reads this site. :lol:
Flag etiquette dictates the proper display of the U.S. flag. The proper method for displaying a U.S. flag is covered under the Flag Code. The rules contained therein apply for flags flown in all manner of configurations, from streetlights to courtrooms. The flag must always be displayed with the stars at the top left.
- Correct Placement
All U.S. flags are subject to the same rules of etiquette regardless of where they are flown. The flag should always hold a position of honor, and in a county courtroom it should be displayed to the right of the judge's bench.
http://www.lifescript.com/Life/Timeout/At-home/The_Flag_Code_Proper_Flag_Etiquette.aspx
- When on display, the flag is accorded the place of honor, always positioned to its own right. Place it to the speaker's right, the audience's left, in a staging area or sanctuary. Other flags should be to the speaker's left.
- The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of states, localities, or societies are grouped for display.
- [/l][/l]
With other Flags - When the flag is displayed in a courtroom or in a hall against a wall with crossed staffs, the country’s flag should always be on the right (the flag’s right, not the viewer’s right) and the country’s flag pole should be on top of the second flag.[/list]
That's a good point there Im_convinced, where's the "In Session" icon on the livestream?What point is good? Before I go and get video to show the In Session Icon on videos I will say the live video feed we see on the site here is from ABC 7 so they do not need to advertise In Session since they have leased the live footage. Be back soon.
I noticed that with the OJ trial footage (except back then it said CourtTV). No icon, it's not from In Session. Not from In Session it isn't official court TV.
http://www.trutv.com/about/insession/index.htmlQuoteIn Session Trial Footage Archive
The Leader in Trial Coverage
IN SESSION (previously Court TV) is the only television network to serve as a window into the American justice system. Programming consists of live coverage of criminal and civil trials from around the country, as well as expert analysis from the network's award-winning legal journalists. The network has covered more than 950 trials since its inception and is considered the leading media outlet for trial coverage by many in and out of the courtroom.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/about/insession/grab-trial_screenshots.jpg)
The Leader in Trial Content
With nearly 90,000 hours of raw courtroom footage, including many high-profile celebrity cases, IN SESSION (and previously as Court TV) has covered both criminal and civil trials. The archive contains courtroom action from opening statements to verdict and sentencing.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/ssi/sect/2.0/blogs/cnninsession/insession.header.jpg)QuoteAbout this blog
Your online home for HLN and In Session on truTV’s up-to-the minute, comprehensive coverage of the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Our anchors, analysts and producers are teaming up here for trial reporting and observations that stretch from what witnesses and attorneys are saying in the L.A. court room to what you’re saying in the office break room.
From opening statements to closing arguments, you won’t miss a bit of powerful testimony as a California jury weighs whether Murray is to blame for the death of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.
Be sure to tune in to In Session on tru TV from 9 a.m. – 3 p.m. ET and HLN ALL day for LIVE wall-to-wall coverage and key analysis of the trial.
Ps. Whoever it was from chat today who pointed out the lack of flag, please identify yourself if you would like credit for the observation. I honestly don't remember who it was. I do remember it was a brilliant observation.
Gathered from chat, there is no United States flag visible in the courtroom. There should be a US flag displayed in every courtroom in the country.
About the flag, today the camera went wide shot and the flag could be seen for a brief moment. The flag is on the judges left side when we look at him or his right side from his pov.
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
Besides what ever equipment is on the bed it's hard to tell because the angle is different. What I have noticed is the pillow at the end of the bed is placed different.
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
They gave us a view of the flag by popular demand it seemed.(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/trash-1.jpg)
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
These are the things I see different...
1. The walls are different...in the old pic it looks like there is wall paper or some kind of pattern...and in the new pic the walls are white.
2. The end tables/ bedside tables look different
3. In the old pic I do not see any lamps....but in the new pic you see 3 of them
4. In the old pic there is a landline phone on the bed side table and yet in the new pic I don't see it there
5. In the old pic there is the air bag used to pump air through breathing tube...again in the new pic there is no blue bag at the foot of the bed on the floor.
That's all I've found so far...except the ones someone already pointed out...the blue pad and the pillow being different. bearhug
Drugs found on Mike’s night table:
Diazepam (Valium) -> benzodiazepine
Diazepam, first marketed as Valium by Hoffmann-La Roche.
It is commonly used for treating anxiety, insomnia, seizures, muscle spasms, restless legs syndrome, alcohol withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal, and Ménière’s disease. It may also be used before certain medical procedures (such as endoscopies) to reduce tension and anxiety, and in some surgical procedures to induce amnesia.
Dosing:
Depending upon severity of symptoms: 2-10 mg, 2-4 times daily.
Adverse reactions:
Incontinence, changes in libido, urinary retention.
Somnolence, Suppression of REM sleep, Impaired motor function(Impaired coordination Impaired balance, Dizziness and nausea), Depression, Impaired learning, Anterograde amnesia (especially pronounced in higher doses), Cognitive deficits, Reflex tachycardia.
Tamsulosin (Flomax)
Tamsulosin is primarily used for benign prostatic hyperplasia, but is sometimes used for the passage of kidney stones by the same mechanism of smooth muscle relaxation via alpha antagonism.
Dosing: Flomax capsules 0.4 mg once daily is recommended as the dose for the treatment of the signs and symptoms of BPH. It should be administered approximately one-half hour following the same meal each day. For those patients who fail to respond to the 0.4 mg dose after two to four weeks of dosing, the dose of flomax capsules can be increased to 0.8 mg once daily.
Adverse effects:
Immunologic: It contains a sulfa moiety, thus causing typical reactions to sulfa drugs.
Ophthalmologic: Patients taking tamsulosin are prone to a complication known as floppy iris syndrome during cataract surgery. Adverse outcomes of the surgery are greatly reduced by the surgeon’s prior knowledge of the patient’s history with this drug, and thus having the option of alternative techniques.
Tamsulosin can cause males to experience retrograde ejaculation. Occasionally, tamsulosin can cause a drop in blood pressure, rarely resulting in dizziness or fainting. Other reported side effects include headache, dizziness, nasal congestion, and palpitations.
Lorazepam (Ativan) -> benzodiazepine
Lorazepam, initially marketed under the brand names Ativan and Temesta, is a benzodiazepine drug with short to medium duration of action. It has all five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects: anxiolytic, amnesic, sedative/hypnotic, anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant. It is a powerful anxiolytic, and, since its introduction in 1977, lorazepam’s principal use has been in treating the symptom of anxiety. Among benzodiazepines, lorazepam has a relatively high addictive potential.
Dosing:
The dose of lorazepam is tailored to the patient’s needs. The usual dose for treating anxiety is 2-3 mg/day given in two or three divided doses. Insomnia is treated with 2-4 mg given at bedtime.
Adverse effects:
Any of the five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects possessed by lorazepam (sedative/hypnotic, muscle relaxant, anxiolytic, amnesic and anticonvulsant) may be considered as “adverse effects” or “side-effects” if unwanted.
Paradoxical effects, Suicidality, Amnesic effects.
Temazepam (Restoril) -> benzodiazepine
Temazepam (marketed under brand names Normison, Temtabs, Euhypnos, Restoril, Remestan, Tenox and Norkotral) is an intermediate-acting 3-hydroxy benzodiazepine. It is generally prescribed for the short-term treatment of sleeplessness in patients who have difficulty maintaining sleep. Temazepam is not effective for induction of sleep. In addition, temazepam has anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), anticonvulsant, and skeletal muscle relaxant properties.
Dosing:
The recommended dose of temazepam when treating insomnia is typically 15 mg, taken at bedtime just before trying to go to sleep. For elderly people or people with other medical problems, the recommended dose is lower — 7.5 mg taken at bedtime.
Adverse effects:
Side effects typical of hypnotic benzodiazepines are related to CNS depression, and include somnolence, dizziness, fatigue, ataxia, headache, lethargy, impairment of memory and learning, increased reaction time and impairment of motor functions (including coordination problems), slurred speech, decreased physical performance, numbed emotions, reduced alertness, muscle weakness, blurred vision (in higher doses), and inattention.
Clonazepam (Klonopin) -> benzodiazepine
Clonazepam is a benzodiazepine derivative with highly potent anticonvulsant, muscle relaxant, and anxiolytic properties. It is marketed by Roche under the trade-names Klonopin in the United States, and Ravotril in Chile. Other names like Rivotril or Rivatril are known throughout the large majority of the rest of the world. Clonazepam is a chlorinated derivative of nitrazepam and a nitrobenzodiazepine like nitrazepam.
Dosing:
Clonazepam must be introduced gradually, and a low starting dose is advisable, such as 0.5 to 1.5 mg/day, which may be taken all at once or divided into two or three doses. The dosage can be increased by 0.5 to 1 mg every 3 to 7 days. The maximum daily dose recommended is 10 mg. In a survey of epilepsy specialists, most recommended no more than 4 mg per day and usually prescribed no more than 2 mg per day.
Adverse effects:
Common
* Drowsiness
* Impairment of cognition, judgment, or memory
* Irritability and aggression
* Psychomotor agitation
* Lack of motivation
* Loss of libido
* Impaired motor function
o Impaired coordination
o Impaired balance
o Dizziness
* Cognitive Impairments
o Increased Sleepwalking (If used in treatment of sleepwalking)
o Auditory Hallucinations
o Short-term memory loss
o Anterograde amnesia (common with higher doses)
* Some users report hangover-like symptoms of being drowsy, having a headache, being sluggish, and being irritable after waking up if the medication is taken before sleep. This is likely the result of the medication’s long half-life, which continues to affect the user after waking up, as well as its disruption of the REM cycle.
Occasional
* Serious dysphoria
* Thrombocytopenia
* Serious psychological and psychiatric side-effects
* Induction of seizures or increased frequency of seizures
* Personality changes
* Behavioural disturbances
Rare
* Psychosis
* Incontinence
* Liver damage
* Paradoxical behavioural disinhibition (most frequently in children, the elderly, and in persons with developmental disabilities)
o Rage
o Excitement
o Impulsivity
Long term effects
The long term effects of clonazepam can include; depression, disinhibition and sexual dysfunction.
Trazodone (Desyrl)
Trazodone (Desyrel, Beneficat, Deprax, Desirel, Molipaxin, Thombran, Trazorel, Trialodine, Trittico) is a psychoactive drug of the piperazine and triazolopyridine chemical classes that has anti depressant anxiolytic, and hypnotic properties. It has been advertised that its therapeutic benefits become noticeable within the first week of administration. Trazodone has considerably less prominent anticholinergic (dry mouth, constipation, tachycardia) and sympatholytic (hypotension, sexual dysfunction consisting of erectile dysfunction and anorgasmia) side effects in comparison to most of the tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) and tetracyclic antidepressants (TeCAs).
Dosing:
Treatment should be started with low initial doses of 25 to 50 mg daily in divided doses or in an evening single dose. The dose may be increased slowly to a maximum of 300 mg daily in ambulatory patients and to 600 mg daily in hospitalized patients. Geriatric and emaciated patients should begin with 25 mg daily; this dose may be slowly increased to 300 mg. The duration of treatment should be at least one month. A 50 mg dose is recommended when using Trazodone as a sleep aid.
Adverse effects:
The most common adverse reactions encountered are drowsiness, nausea/vomiting, headache and dry mouth. Adverse reactions reported include the following:
*Behavioral
Drowsiness, fatigue, lethargy, psychomotor retardation, lightheadedness, dizziness, difficulty in concentration, confusion, uncontrollable laughter, sex drive increase.
*Neurological
Tremor, headache, ataxia, migraine, akathisia, muscle stiffness, slurred speech, slowed speech, vertigo, tinnitus, tingling of extremities, paresthesia, weakness, complex partial seizures, and rarely, impaired speech, muscle twitching, numbness, dystonia, euphoria, and involuntary movements.
*Autonomic
Dry or numb mouth, blurred vision, priapism, diplopia, miosis, nasal congestion, constipation, sweating, urinary retention, increased urinary frequency and incontinence.
*Cardiovascular
Hypotension, tachycardia, palpitations, shortness of breath, apnea, syncope, arrhythmias, prolonged P-R interval, atrial fibrillation, bradycardia, ventricular ectopic activity (including ventricular tachycardia), myocardial infarction, and cardiac arrest.
Tizanidine (Zanaflex)
Tizanidine (brandnames Zanaflex, Sirdalud) is a drug that is used as a muscle relaxant. It is a centrally acting a-2 adrenergic agonist. It is used to treat the spasms, cramping, and tightness of muscles caused by medical problems such as multiple sclerosis, spastic diplegia, back pain, or certain other injuries to the spine or central nervous system. It is also prescribed off-label for migraine headaches, as a sleep aid, and as an anticonvulsant. It is also prescribed for some symptoms of fibromyalgia.
Dosing:
To minimize side effects, begin with a dosage of 4 milligrams, then increase the dose gradually. Doses of 8 milligrams provide relief for most people. No more than 3 doses should be taken each 24 hours. The maximum dose per day is 36 milligrams.
Adverse effects:
Tizanidine use occasionally causes drug induced liver injury. In controlled clinical studies, approximately 5% of patients treated with Zanaflex had elevations of liver function tests (ALT, AST) to greater than 3 times the upper limit of normal (or 2 times if baseline levels were elevated). Do not use tizanidine at a time when muscle tone is needed to assure safe balance and movement for certain activities.
Administered on June 25th:
01.30: 10mg tablet of Valium.
Diazepam, first marketed as Valium by Hoffmann-La Roche.
It is commonly used for treating anxiety, insomnia, seizures, muscle spasms, restless legs syndrome, alcohol withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal, and Ménière’s disease. It may also be used before certain medical procedures (such as endoscopies) to reduce tension and anxiety, and in some surgical procedures to induce amnesia.
Dosing:
Depending upon severity of symptoms: 2-10 mg, 2-4 times daily.
Adverse reactions:
Incontinence, changes in libido, urinary retention.
Somnolence, Suppression of REM sleep, Impaired motor function(Impaired coordination Impaired balance, Dizziness and nausea), Depression, Impaired learning, Anterograde amnesia (especially pronounced in higher doses), Cognitive deficits, Reflex tachycardia.
02.00: 2mg Lorazepam (Ativan) after dilution, into IV.
Lorazepam, initially marketed under the brand names Ativan and Temesta, is a benzodiazepine drug with short to medium duration of action. It has all five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects: anxiolytic, amnesic, sedative/hypnotic, anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant. It is a powerful anxiolytic, and, since its introduction in 1977, lorazepam’s principal use has been in treating the symptom of anxiety. Among benzodiazepines, lorazepam has a relatively high addictive potential.
Dosing:
The dose of lorazepam is tailored to the patient’s needs. The usual dose for treating anxiety is 2-3 mg/day given in two or three divided doses. Insomnia is treated with 2-4 mg given at bedtime.
Adverse effects:
Any of the five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects possessed by lorazepam (sedative/hypnotic, muscle relaxant, anxiolytic, amnesic and anticonvulsant) may be considered as “adverse effects”; or “side-effects” if unwanted.
Paradoxical effects, Suicidality, Amnesic effects.
03.00: 2 mg Midazolam (Veresed) after dilution, into IV.
Midazolam, marketed in English-speaking countries under brand names Dormicum, Hypnovel, Midacum and Versed) is an ultra short-acting benzodiazepine derivative. It has potent anxiolytic, amnestic, hypnotic, anticonvulsant, skeletal muscle relaxant, and sedative properties. Midazolam is water-soluble and fat-soluble in physiologic pH. Freely soluble in alcohol and acetone. It is considered an ultra short-acting benzodiazepine, with an elimination half-life of about 2 hours. It is used in some countries for the short term treatment of insomnia and in many countries as a premedication before surgery. It is therefore a very useful drug to use for short minor procedures such as dental extraction.
Dosing:
Initial dose: 1-2 mg
Additional doses: 1 mg administered at 2-minute intervals
Onset of action: 1-2 minutes
Peak effect: 3-4 minutes
Duration of effect: 15-80 minutes
Adverse effects:
Residual ‘hangover’ effects after nighttime administration of midazolam such as sleepiness, impaired psychomotor and cognitive functions may persist into the next day which may impair the ability of users to drive safely and increase risks of falls and hip fractures. Confusion and amnesia are reported with midazolam. Midazolam has been known to cause a paradoxical reaction in susceptible individuals, a well-documented complication with benzodiazapines. When this occurs, the individual may experience anxiety, involuntary movements, aggressive or violent behavior, uncontrollable crying or verbalization, and other similar effects. This seems to be related to the altered state of consciousness or disinhibition produced by the drug. Some patients may respond to as little as 1 mg. No more than 1.5 mg should be given over a period of no less than 2 minutes.
05.00: 2 mg Lorazepam (Ativan), after dilution, into IV. See above.
07.30: 2mg of Midazolam (Versed), after dilution, into IV. See above.
10.40: 25 mg of Propofol (Diprivan), diluted with Lidocaine (Xylocaine), via IV drip.
Propofol (INN, marketed as Diprivan by AstraZeneca) is a short-acting, intravenously administered hypnotic agent. Its uses include the induction and maintenance of general anesthesia, sedation for mechanically ventilated adults, and procedural sedation. Propofol is also commonly used in veterinary medicine. Propofol is approved for use in more than 50 countries, and generic versions are available.
Chemically, propofol is unrelated to barbiturates, and has largely replaced sodium thiopental (Pentothal) for induction of anesthesia as recovery from propofol is more rapid and “clear” as compared to thiopental. Propofol is not considered an analgesic, so opioids such as fentanyl may be combined with propofol to alleviate pain.[1] Due to its amnestic effects and appearance as a white liquid, propofol has been humorously dubbed “milk of amnesia” by medical professionals.
Dosing:
Anesthesia induction, [healthy adults
Dose: 2-2.5 mg/kg IV given as 40 mg q10sec until induction onset
Anesthesia maintenance, [healthy adults
Dose: 0.1-0.2 mg/kg/min IV; Alt: 25-50 mg IV prn
Monitored anesthesia care induction
[100-150 mcg/kg/min IV x3-5min]
Alt: 50 mcg/kg IV x1 over 3-5min, then maint. Infusion
Monitored anesthesia care maintenance
[25-75 mcg/kg/min IV]
Alt: 10-20 mg IV prn; Info: avoid bolus doses and reduce dose 20% in elderly, debilitated, neurosurgical, or ASA P3-P4 pts
Adverse effects:
Aside from low blood pressure (mainly through vasodilation) and transient apnea following induction doses, one of propofol’s most frequent side effects is pain on injection, especially in smaller veins. This pain can be mitigated by pretreatment with lidocaine. Patients show great variability in their response to propofol, at times showing profound sedation with small doses. A more serious but rare side effect is dystonia. Mild myoclonic movements are common, as with other intravenous hypnotic agents. Propofol appears to be safe for use in porphyria, and has not been known to trigger malignant hyperpyrexia.
It has been reported that the euphoria caused by propofol is unlike other sedation agents,“I even remember my first experience using propofol: a young woman who was emerging from a MAC anesthesia looked at me as though I were a masked Brad Pitt and told me that she felt simply wonderful” —C.F. Ward, M.D.
Propofol has reportedly induced priapism in some individuals.
After Mike stopped breathing:
0.2 mg of Flumanezil (Anexate) was administered once.
Flumazenil (Anexate), in affidavid listed as Flumanezil
Flumazenil, a specific benzodiazepine-receptor antagonist, is indicated for the complete or partial reversal of the sedative effects of benzodiazepines and may be used in situations when an overdose with a benzodiazepine is known or suspected. Prior to the administration of flumazenil, necessary measures should be instituted to secure airway, ventilation and intravenous access. Flumazenil is intended as an adjunt to, not as a substitute for, proper management of benzodiazepine overdose. Patients treated with flumazenil should be monitored to resedation, respiratory depression and other residual benzodiazepine effects for an appropriate period after treatment. The prescriber should be aware of a risk of seizure in association with flumazenil treatment, particularly in long-term benzodiazepine users and in cyclic antidepressant overdose.
Dosing:
The recommended dose for adults is 0,2ml every 1–2 minutes until the effect is seen, to a maximum of 3 mg per hour. The onset of action is rapid and usually effects are seen within one to two minutes. The peak effect is seen at six to ten minutes.
Drugs found via autopsy:
Propofol (see above)
Lorazepam (see above)
Midazolam (see above)
Diazepam (see above)
Lidocaine
Lidocaine (INN) or lignocaine (former BAN) is a common local anesthetic and antiarrhythmic drug. Lidocaine is used topically to relieve itching, burning and pain from skin inflammations, injected as a dental anesthetic, and in minor surgery.
Dosing:
Unknown, in this case Propofol was diluted with Lidocaine.
Adverse effects:
Systemic exposure to excessive quantities of lidocaine mainly result in central nervous system (CNS) and cardiovascular effects – CNS effects usually occur at lower blood plasma concentrations and additional cardiovascular effects present at higher concentrations, though cardiovascular collapse may also occur with low concentrations. CNS effects may include CNS excitation (nervousness, tingling around the mouth (also known as circumoral paraesthesia), tinnitus, tremor, dizziness, blurred vision, seizures) followed by depression, and with increasingly heavier exposure: drowsiness, loss of consciousness, respiratory depression and apnoea). Cardiovascular effects include hypotension, bradycardia, arrhythmias, and/or cardiac arrest – some of which may be due to hypoxemia secondary to respiratory depression.
Ephedrine
Ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant used to treat breathing problems (as a bronchodilator), nasal congestion (as a decongestant), low blood pressure problems (orthostatic hypotension), or myasthenia gravis. Ephedrine stimulates fatburning and increases alertness and activity of the body. Ephedrine increases the energy and concentration for 6 to 10 hours. The energy released will inhibited the appetite. Ephedrine can also be used for asthma, hay fever and colds.
Dosing:
For prescription ephedrine, do not exceed 150 mg per day in adults.
Adverse effects:
Adverse drug reactions (ADRs) are more common with systemic administration (e.g. injection or oral administration) compared to topical administration (e.g. nasal instillations). ADRs associated with ephedrine therapy include:
Cardiovascular: tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias, angina pectoris, vasoconstriction with hypertension
Dermatological: flushing, sweating, acne vulgaris
Gastrointestinal: anorexia, nausea
Genitourinary: diuresis (increased urination) due to increased blood flow (difficulty urinating is not uncommon, as alpha-agonists such as ephedrine constrict the internal urethral sphincter, mimicking the effects of sympathetic nervous system stimulation)
Nervous system: restlessness, confusion, insomnia, mild euphoria, mania/hallucinations (rare except in previously existing psychiatric conditions), delusions, formication (may be possible, but lacks documented evidence) paranoia, hostility, panic, agitation
Respiratory: dyspnea, pulmonary edema
Miscellaneous: dizziness, headache, tremor, hyperglycemic reactions
The approved maximum daily dosage of ephedrine for use as a bronchodilator is 150 mg, as specified on the packaging of the bronchodilator and expectorant combination, Bronkaid, made by Bayer pharmaceuticals.
Overdose can lead to death, although the approved dose is not likely to cause severe reactions when used as directed.
http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/the-dogs-the-meds-the-mess-the-math-part-2/Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Opening statements
1. MJ's voice on recording (fire/smoke detector beeping in the background). IF it is really him it is slurred but what he says makes sense. Not incoherent like it would be under drugs. IMO. Question: Why did CM even record it on his iPhone?
2. CM had a CARDIOLOGY BOOK for the BOARD EXAM in MJ's bedroom!!! Huh?
3. CM/Alvarez so careful about collecting vials in bags but then leave it behind for the police to find?
4. MJ knew so much about Propofol so he told CM how it's being used. Why would he have to tell CM if he is a doctor?
KO
1. The e-mail to Randy Phillips!!! Have you noticed? MJ was NOT mentioned by name once. KO just referred to "the Artist".
2. Did you also notice? KO was asked if the night of the 24th was MJ's "last performance on stage". He corrected the inquiry by pointing out it was NOT MJ's "last performance on stage" but his "last rehearsal". :)) Reminded me of Jermaine's "This Is It but this is not really it. This is not the final curtain call."
3. Emphasis by KO about MJ's exitement about the start of the "illusion".
Michael Amir Williams
He said he guarded the room "where MJ, (stuttering) I don't know how to put it, was HELD." Held? What??? Not treated, not where they worked on him or sth like that. Held. (Alvarez said sth similar later). Seemed very amused at times.
Alvarez
1. Saw CM on the landing when entering the house. So CM wasn't helping MJ? Just hanging around the landing waiting?
3. 1st said he was walking with CM towards bedroom then said he saw CM doing CPR with 1 hand when he came into bedroom. Which is it?
4. Said at first he didn't notice any cut in saline bag with the bottle.
The way he desribed the bottle in the bag, no liquid would flow out of the bottle. It has a rubber stopper, liquid just flows when directly attached to (and pierced by) dispenser. Or am I wrong?
5. Lifted MJ to the floor during 911 call? How? Does he have a hands free device? And why can't we hear this movement during the call?
7. 1st 911 call to Beverly Hills (411) before transferral to dispatcher? Knows how to do CPR but not know how to call 911?
8. Video with Alvarez. He stayed in front of the room "where MJ was PLACED". What? Another strange selection of words.
Kai Chase
Kai said she sent Prince upstairs and minutes later security arrived. So Prince should have been already upstairs when Alvarez came. But Alvarez stated that Prince and Paris came in behind him into the bedroom.
Don't even want to mention the fact that she sent 12 yr. Prince upstairs after learning that sth might be seriously wrong with MJ and goes back to work O_O.
The whole questioning seemed to amuse her.
Robert Russell
Would have been a much better witness for defense than for the prosecution. Voicemail from CM (fire/smoke detector beeping in background). Said "Sabbatical" expression by CM was weird. I agree.
Firefighters/Paramedics
Lots of contradictions with other statements of witnesses. Question: If MJ was dead as they stated why did they further try to resucitate him at UCLA for over 1 hour?
Another awkward choice of words (M.B)"...he was down at MJ's groin area...,...touching his groin."
Additional thoughts:
Why did Michael Amir tell Alvarez to go to the front of the house to the front door? Entry through kitchen right next to security trailer would've been much faster. MA to AA "Don't make a commotion, no sudden moves to alarm anybody"? Alarm who? Why no commotion? Strange.
The pillow on MJ's bed looks undisturbed, no indentations. Did someone fluff the pillow in between?
The photo: First of all I think it's a fake. The proportions of the body don't look right to me. Legs und forearm too short. Second, the paramedics said his skin looked blue while still at Carolwood. This pic is supposed to be done later in the hospital. Wouldn't his skin be really blue/ghostly white by then? In the photo his skin looks still very pinkish to me. More like a coma patient. Also I assume they would have done the photo after the resucitation effords not before. Why is there still the tape on his nose and the tubes on his wrist? Wouldn't they remove it right away after being pronounced?
The fire alarms. :)) What's up with that? Fire alarm on 06/25/09 at UCLA (supposedly in adjacent building) and today (9/30)in court (accidental pull on another floor, some people said it was 2.26 PT and it rang 7 times btw.). Oh and do you remember the fire alarm when MJ gave is interview to Oprah years ago?
Also noticed Fire/smoke detectors are beeping in ALL voice recordings of CM as well as MJ presented in court.
On a personal note. Fire/smoke detectors beeping is veeery annoying. You can't ignore it and can't sleep when it's beeping in intervalls especially since you can hear it more or less in the whole house not just in one room.
Unless MJ let it beep for weeks, which requires good nerves, IMO the voice tapes of MJ "under influence" and CM to Martin Russell voice mail were probably taped on the same day/time/place/room.
Since we heard the beeping on MJ's slurry speech" tape (most likely made in the same bedroom where 6/25 events took place) AND on the voice mail from CM to M.Russell, but did not hear beeping on Alvarez 911 call, I think it's safe to say that Alvarez was NOT in the bedroom where the other 2 tapes were made.
*BTW to fix a beeping fire/smoke detector you just have to change the batteries but I doubt CM did that before the 911 call from Alvarez. ;)
KTF!!! :)
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):I see what your talking about and just to be clear I never said there was no seal in the actual courtroom. I was only saying the seal we see when the camera goes off is not the one hanging on the wall. When the camera goes up toward the seal I can see the different wall pattern, the camera only catches the bottom left side, then it is like a quick switch of an image around the 2:57 mark. It looks like a slide show, then it goes back and forth for a quick second and then stays still on the seal that looks more like a created image. I wish I could be a fly on the wall. fresse/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):I see what your talking about and just to be clear I never said there was no seal in the actual courtroom. I was only saying the seal we see when the camera goes off is not the one hanging on the wall. When the camera goes up toward the seal I can see the different wall pattern, the camera only catches the bottom left side, then it is like a quick switch of an image around the 2:57 mark. It looks like a slide show, then it goes back and forth for a quick second and then stays still on the seal that looks more like a created image. I wish I could be a fly on the wall. fresse/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
There is some freaky stuff happening. The 2 lady witnesses that were up there for a minute. What was the point?
Regarding Murray's bald spot. It has become clear to me that we are supposed to see Murray's thinage...LOL. I beLIEve it may be a clue letting us know he is Michael. HLN showed the infamous Pepsi footage this evening. Is anybody seeing where I am going with this? ;)
the murray question
has long bothered me, i think we talked about this before, like theres something we arent getting about murray, he stands for something, his role is important, else why have him? why did michael NEED a doctor or anyone at all to be involved in this hoax?
well i figured it out, with all the media circus this weekend, i figured it out
murray IS michael… not physically but metaphorically
murray is a professional black man fallen from grace, being accused of a horrible crime, outrageous allegations, his private and personal life paraded before the cameras on the evening news for all to see and mock
his child support issues, his debt, his wives and ex’s and girlfriend, hes portrayed as incompetant (leaving the room while michael was under to talk to his girlfriend, not calling 911, one armed cpr, etc) the media has convicted him of a crime and proclaimed him guilty before the police even sealed the “crime scene”
remember, the police didnt consider it a crime scene until the media did, days later, family goes in and out etc
meanwhile the tabloids have targeted murray and proclaimed him michael’s killer
murrays friends and patients and supporters are small voices in the sea of media bias saying wait, no, its not true, hes a holistic doctor, he doesnt perscribe drugs, he uses vitamens and herbs and holistic approaches
the media calls him dr death and dr feel good, drugs drugs drugs, shadey doc, did michael’s bidding, provided powerful drugs at will
so, hes painted as something he is not, they sway perception and turn this man into a monster
meanwhile, the LAPD and now the DA are FOLLOWING the media… and feel pressure to bring a case, the MEDIA are the ones who say manslaughter, murder, charges, hes guilty, the feds have ALWAYS followed the media in this case
so, just like in 2005, when, thanks to the FBI files, the DA had ZERO evidence on michael and conspired to create a case on false pretence, to try and bring him down, NOW we have murray
same situation.
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues.
thanks bearhugI hope your daughter gets well soon!
She isn't out of the woods yet, will probably be in the ICU a few days, I just got home and had to check in on the drama :)
Her doctor pointed out something though...
He says to me " now, your daughter is in full blown DKA ( Diabetic Keto acidosis) , what if I were to "guess" on how much insulin I should give her?" WTF??
This is a man who is a captain in the navy who is beyond retirement age , in his late 50's who has been a medical doctor ( pediatric endocrinologist ) for over 27 years....he doesn't GUESS. He KNOWS. Thats what he was trained to do and what he went to school for. For a doctor to sit there and say " oh we don't know how much medicine to give a patient, it depends on seconds to minutes is bull@#$%. She is either A) not a doctor B) just really stupid. I'm leaning towards A or she was never a doctor in that hospital that day.
Her DR said, his opinion? She is lying...he didn't say on what aspect but she was lying.
joke (j(http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gif)k)
n. 1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line. 2. A mischievous trick; a prank. 3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation. 4. Informal a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke. b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office. v. joked, jok·ing, jokes v.intr. 1. To tell or play jokes; jest. 2. To speak in fun; be facetious. v.tr. To make fun of; tease
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):I see what your talking about and just to be clear I never said there was no seal in the actual courtroom. I was only saying the seal we see when the camera goes off is not the one hanging on the wall. When the camera goes up toward the seal I can see the different wall pattern, the camera only catches the bottom left side, then it is like a quick switch of an image around the 2:57 mark. It looks like a slide show, then it goes back and forth for a quick second and then stays still on the seal that looks more like a created image. I wish I could be a fly on the wall. fresse/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
There is some freaky stuff happening. The 2 lady witnesses that were up there for a minute. What was the point?
I know exactly what you are talking about Imconvinced.
HLN said that they zoom in to the seal and back out after break. But they didn't explain why it cuts out. If its 'Live' it should go straight to the seal and not cut out.
@Monster, yes I know what you mean. This is from 2/7/10 and it remains a strong theory:Quotethe murray question
has long bothered me, i think we talked about this before, like theres something we arent getting about murray, he stands for something, his role is important, else why have him? why did michael NEED a doctor or anyone at all to be involved in this hoax?
well i figured it out, with all the media circus this weekend, i figured it out
murray IS michael… not physically but metaphorically
murray is a professional black man fallen from grace, being accused of a horrible crime, outrageous allegations, his private and personal life paraded before the cameras on the evening news for all to see and mock
his child support issues, his debt, his wives and ex’s and girlfriend, hes portrayed as incompetant (leaving the room while michael was under to talk to his girlfriend, not calling 911, one armed cpr, etc) the media has convicted him of a crime and proclaimed him guilty before the police even sealed the “crime scene”
remember, the police didnt consider it a crime scene until the media did, days later, family goes in and out etc
meanwhile the tabloids have targeted murray and proclaimed him michael’s killer
murrays friends and patients and supporters are small voices in the sea of media bias saying wait, no, its not true, hes a holistic doctor, he doesnt perscribe drugs, he uses vitamens and herbs and holistic approaches
the media calls him dr death and dr feel good, drugs drugs drugs, shadey doc, did michael’s bidding, provided powerful drugs at will
so, hes painted as something he is not, they sway perception and turn this man into a monster
meanwhile, the LAPD and now the DA are FOLLOWING the media… and feel pressure to bring a case, the MEDIA are the ones who say manslaughter, murder, charges, hes guilty, the feds have ALWAYS followed the media in this case
so, just like in 2005, when, thanks to the FBI files, the DA had ZERO evidence on michael and conspired to create a case on false pretence, to try and bring him down, NOW we have murray
same situation.
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues. But still the madness continues. What parent would leave that drug store sitting on a night table when you have young inquisitive children in the house? Kai Chase and the organic juice versus the juice box popper still intrigues me. When I helped nurse my terminally ill father at home, he was on a morphine drip, but I have vivid memories of holding juice with a straw for him to drink as he couldn't eat. It was the way to get nutrition into him. I am now open to and willing to consider the terminal patient- dead body theory.@ I'mconvinced, what a great job you are doing in holding up your side. Perhaps you can help this vascillator of no body/dead body to get off the fence and take one side or the other. /judge/
Ps. MJ could be Murray similar to how he was Dave Dave. Anything is possible for a day.
Jane Valez and Dr. Drew have definately chilled on the judgemental commentary. It's as if the hoax has finally dawned on them. I'm not so sure about Nancy but we will see. It seems that some of the guests they bring on are purposely slamming Murray in order to provoke a response.....No matter who is in on it I am becoming more and more sure that Murray is Michael hiding in plain sight behind the mask.
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues. But still the madness continues. What parent would leave that drug store sitting on a night table when you have young inquisitive children in the house? Kai Chase and the organic juice versus the juice box popper still intrigues me. When I helped nurse my terminally ill father at home, he was on a morphine drip, but I have vivid memories of holding juice with a straw for him to drink as he couldn't eat. It was the way to get nutrition into him. I am now open to and willing to consider the terminal patient- dead body theory.@ I'mconvinced, what a great job you are doing in holding up your side. Perhaps you can help this vascillator of no body/dead body to get off the fence and take one side or the other. /judge/
Wow, we have a lot in common...
My mother was also terminally ill from cancer, also on the morphine and we had to feed her juice and Ensure because she couldn't do anything herself and she couldn't eat either.
But I agree, all those meds lying around with kids in the house? That's an accident waiting to happen!
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#%21/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
You know... I am keeping score here and I have an announcement for you:
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YOU LOST!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
In fact, many non-believers have accused us of thinking that MJ is alive merely because we are in denial, and don’t want to accept that he is dead. But if we are real investigators, then our feelings should not get in the way of our investigation. We should want to know if he is really dead; and if he’s really alive, then we should be able to back it up with cold-hard facts, not mere wishful fantasies.http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,9994.msg168361.html#msg168361
This is why the information that I provide is, for the most part, cold-hard evidence. In fact, beware of anyone who tries to convince you of anything whatsoever (whether related to MJ or not)—based primarily upon warm fuzzies, and not upon good solid evidence. Personally, I never have and never will try to convince you of anything, without some fairly strong evidence to back it up.
And this is why I have spent a lot of time on the hoax numerology. It may seem cold, dry, and mechanical; but it is tangible evidence, that you can sink your teeth into. It is positively not based upon feelings; and at least for those who understand statistics, it is a category of hard evidence stands head and shoulders above all of the other evidence. As stated in the title of Update #4, it truly is the “Greatest Proof of Hoax, Not Murder”.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
AOWWWW~!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA_dNMHlSZw
It hurts...(50 growls)
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah - YEAH!!
D's tryin to plant a murder on me
In the precinct, they sayin' I done murdered homey
I told my lawyer, "I ain't heard of homey"
And e'rybody know my niggas murder fo' me
LOL Monster...great post...had me falling outta my chair :lol:
Trust me, you're not the only nut job...we all pretty much hopped on that train a long time ago...and haven't stopped hopping since :lol: . For me, it's something about Murray's eyes....very familiar feel to them. At this point, anything can be true....I keep remembering Front's funny post about Mike maybe being right in front of our eyes--in the flesh. Maybe it, too, had a double-meaning...and it wasn't just funny as in 'ha-ha funny'...but instead ' (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-020.gif) funny'.
With Mike...anything is possible.
All I know is...I'm gonna need to sleep for a week straight when this is all over with...just to catch up on some zzzzzzz's. I'm wired 24/7 /woohoo/
If Mike is adding special touches based on things suggested here...we should come up with some real good ones :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
LOL Monster...great post...had me falling outta my chair :lol:
Trust me, you're not the only nut job...we all pretty much hopped on that train a long time ago...and haven't stopped hopping since :lol: . For me, it's something about Murray's eyes....very familiar feel to them. At this point, anything can be true....I keep remembering Front's funny post about Mike maybe being right in front of our eyes--in the flesh. Maybe it, too, had a double-meaning...and it wasn't just funny as in 'ha-ha funny'...but instead ' (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-020.gif) funny'.
With Mike...anything is possible.
All I know is...I'm gonna need to sleep for a week straight when this is all over with...just to catch up on some zzzzzzz's. I'm wired 24/7 /woohoo/
If Mike is adding special touches based on things suggested here...we should come up with some real good ones :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny :lol:
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
LOl TS, well you did give yourself the easiest option out of hoax, sting and murder didn't you! How about an 'accidental death' theory? That's the one people I've spoken to in my 'real life' are going with - MJ was a druggie anyway, so was a timebomb waiting to go off - 'he had a bad reaction'. End of story (for them!).
/overreacting/ Hey TS ain't you the one that said MJ would bam Before the end of 2012 if not you were a fake informer? Well then if he is dead would that not make you a fake informer? Seems to me this is just a contradiction,because this is a big hoax.I do believe Michael was murdered but only in name. Murdered,crucified,and belittled by the media who are controlled by the illuminatis. Nice try though Ts but like others have said we need some hard evidence to prove that he is in fact was really murdered. I think Bec is dominating this fight so far.
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Ok something is seriously going on...
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol)
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
I couldn't watch the yesterday court session.
I don't know if I missed something important.
Any contradictions in the testimonies?
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Looks like 'purple' is the color of the day :lol: And they really wanted to make sure we didn't miss it lol:
DA: Ms. Bella, do you recognize Mr. Murray (as she points to him) sitting here wearing a purple tie?
Bella: Yessss (LOL...what was up with the neverending 's' sound whenever she answered yessss :lol: )
Oh, and she just happened to keep a voice message from Murray from June 16, 2009...hmmm, ok.
Anding: When asked to point out Murray...she says he's wearing a purple shirt and purple tie lol.
Alvarez: An actress since 1989 (what a great year!). She's supposedly been with Murray since 2005 (I think that's what she said) but when asked if she went to meet Mike with Murray or alone (and during this part of her testimony, I thought she was gonna have a fanatic attack lol)...she answers with, "I travelled with Mr. Murray". Could be nothing...maybe she's just trying to sound proper in court (but see previous sentence lol)...I just find it odd that she refers to a man she's been with for years as Mr. Murray (who, by the way, seems to be quite the 'player', especially with the younger ladies :lol: ). It's like a Murray-ex-girlfriend convention in court today :lol:
Interesting how she referred to her 'self' (even panned her hands over her body) as an 'instrument'....similar to how Mike referred to his 'self' to AEG as the 'machine' LOL
AND...Alvarez gets caught in a whopper of a lie with the 150k/month LOL. Can't wait to see her BACKtrack outta that one once the recess is over.
Pretty entertaining day so far... :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
This one comes from SeeingClues. :lol:
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/414343092.jpg)
Couldn't resist as this is just too eerie...
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
LMFAO...the HLN reporter (don't know his name) that's live at the court house...just told Jane and Ryan that when Alvarez (Murray's g/f) was leaving the courtroom, she nodded at Randy and he nodded back! Then he (the reporter) said he asked her how she thinks she did (with her testimony) and she said, "I did my best". And Jane and Ryan just laughed LOL
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
LMFAO...the HLN reporter (don't know his name) that's live at the court house...just told Jane and Ryan that when Alvarez (Murray's g/f) was leaving the courtroom, she nodded at Randy and he nodded back! Then he (the reporter) said he asked her how she thinks she did (with her testimony) and she said, "I did my best". And Jane and Ryan just laughed LOL
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg">
There's no bigger stage for an aspiring actress than the Conrad Murray manslaughhter trial -- and today, the doc's 29-year-old baby mama is NAILING her biggest audition ever!!!
Nicole Alvarez -- a former Vegas stripper Murray met in 2005 -- is flashing her BIG, GIANT, er, smile on the stand right now ... and during her testimony, she's proved she's got some serious emotional RANGE!!!
Just check out the pics below -- think she'll get a gig out of this???
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-expressions.jpg)
The first paramedic to testify (sorry dont have his name...i think it was Richard something) said that HE and a big strong fireman had to lift Michael off the bed to give CPR...however Alberto Alvarez said he and Murray put Michael on the floor.
Also Alberto said that he thought Michael would be very heavy but was surprised when he was so light (as in weight)
Going back to the 'no body' used, 'dummy', or 'real body' (of someone other than MJ) theories...and based only on what we've heard so far in trial (this, of course, may change as more witnesses are questioned and we hear even more discrepancies)...this is what we have so far:
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues. But still the madness continues. What parent would leave that drug store sitting on a night table when you have young inquisitive children in the house? Kai Chase and the organic juice versus the juice box popper still intrigues me. When I helped nurse my terminally ill father at home, he was on a morphine drip, but I have vivid memories of holding juice with a straw for him to drink as he couldn't eat. It was the way to get nutrition into him. I am now open to and willing to consider the terminal patient- dead body theory.@ I'mconvinced, what a great job you are doing in holding up your side. Perhaps you can help this vascillator of no body/dead body to get off the fence and take one side or the other. /judge/
These photos are from another forum, someone can see a rabbit hidden in these plants? errrr
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/conejo10.jpg)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/taqui10.jpg)
Actually I do not think that Murray has or had relation with all these women. This is also a movie and I do believe that these women are doing their parts. Playing Murray's girlfriends.
The first paramedic to testify (sorry dont have his name...i think it was Richard something) said that HE and a big strong fireman had to lift Michael off the bed to give CPR...however Alberto Alvarez said he and Murray put Michael on the floor.
Also Alberto said that he thought Michael would be very heavy but was surprised when he was so light (as in weight)
HLN is playing some strip tease music and showing the women's testimony. They are clowning around. lolol/
Mr. Michael24 I want to believe your crazy theory but I can't. I can't believe a silicon mask can be so perfectly made to look like human skin (I mean if Murray would be Michael).
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Actually I do not think that Murray has or had relation with all these women. This is also a movie and I do believe that these women are doing their parts. Playing Murray's girlfriends.
That is exactly what I think. Remember all the staged photos of Murray and Alvarez and their small child at different times, and this child never seems to grow. I don't think Murray is ugly, I actually think he has a kind face (usually, LOL).
Mr. Michael24 I want to believe your crazy theory but I can't. I can't believe a silicon mask can be so perfectly made to look like human skin (I mean if Murray would be Michael).
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Would these make it more real for you?
http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php (http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php)
Well, game over with...you win. Then I guess those of us who do not believe that Michael was murdered/is dead will just go on believing it is a hoax and you can move onto another game. To me what you are then saying is that all these clues these years have been planted by the illuminiti. But, then why would they be planted for us belivers?? What is the purpose of them leaving clues so we believe he's alive and will return? Why not just let Murray go down for it? Have fun with your next game, although I personally feel your post is to make us debunk what you say and thus strengthen our belief in other theories.
Well, game over with...you win. Then I guess those of us who do not believe that Michael was murdered/is dead will just go on believing it is a hoax and you can move onto another game. To me what you are then saying is that all these clues these years have been planted by the illuminiti. But, then why would they be planted for us belivers?? What is the purpose of them leaving clues so we believe he's alive and will return? Why not just let Murray go down for it? Have fun with your next game, although I personally feel your post is to make us debunk what you say and thus strengthen our belief in other theories.
Ford.... TS was joking.
ME TOO...
LMFAO...the HLN reporter (don't know his name) that's live at the court house...just told Jane and Ryan that when Alvarez (Murray's g/f) was leaving the courtroom, she nodded at Randy and he nodded back! Then he (the reporter) said he asked her how she thinks she did (with her testimony) and she said, "I did my best". And Jane and Ryan just laughed LOL
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
The HLN reporters also said the info from TMZ. Great pics TMZ. lolol/Quotehttp://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/)
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg)">
There's no bigger stage for an aspiring actress than the Conrad Murray manslaughhter trial -- and today, the doc's 29-year-old baby mama is NAILING her biggest audition ever!!!
Nicole Alvarez -- a former Vegas stripper Murray met in 2005 -- is flashing her BIG, GIANT, er, smile on the stand right now ... and during her testimony, she's proved she's got some serious emotional RANGE!!!
Just check out the pics below -- think she'll get a gig out of this???
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-expressions.jpg)
Mr. Michael24 I want to believe your crazy theory but I can't. I can't believe a silicon mask can be so perfectly made to look like human skin (I mean if Murray would be Michael).
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Would these make it more real for you?
http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php (http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related)
Ok something is seriously going on...
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol)
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.
Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.
A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
( TMZ deleted the article only 5 mins after posting it, luckily my app on my phone still shows it)
Also I thought there was a gag order in place?
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-trial-death-prosecution-tricking-jurors-fabrication-m-barbering-alberto-alvarez-911-haircut/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-trial-death-prosecution-tricking-jurors-fabrication-m-barbering-alberto-alvarez-911-haircut/)
Conrad Murray spilled his guts to his barber over the weekend, complaining the prosecutor in his manslaughter trial is intentionally deceiving the jury.
Murray's barber, Maurice from M Barbering, tells TMZ ... Murray was griping that prosecutors have said the Doc delayed calling 911. Murray told the clipper ... he told bodyguard Alberto Alvarez to immediately call 911.
And on the subject of Alvarez ... Murray is pissed at the accusation he told the bodyguard to bring Michael Jackson's two oldest kids to Jackson's bedroom. Doc Murray says he actually told Alvarez to keep them away.
Murray was telling his barber he thinks the prosecutors are more interested in convicting him than being honest.
And if you're wondering, Murray's cut cost $25 ... and he left a 5 dollar tip.
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny :lol:
What about a bait and switch?
Michael as MURRAY IN the court room then they switch when court dismisses and the real Murray goes home?
It's not impossible.
He had some strange facial problems this morning, anything can be possible.
And the question the prosecution asked Nicole.."did Dr Murray tell you he was ACTING as MJ's physician?"
Hln replayed that 3 times so far...
Actually I do not think that Murray has or had relation with all these women. This is also a movie and I do believe that these women are doing their parts. Playing Murray's girlfriends.
That is exactly what I think. Remember all the staged photos of Murray and Alvarez and their small child at different times, and this child never seems to grow. I don't think Murray is ugly, I actually think he has a kind face (usually, LOL).
I join you here, I think it's part of the script. Murray does not seem concerned at all :lol: because of course he is innocent. Sometimes he looks like a child bored in a courtroom....more toys for him there please! :lol: (and for us as well! geek/).
HLN is playing some strip tease music and showing the women's testimony. They are clowning around. lolol/
:lol:
I saw that too.
Tomorrow is the 7th day of trial. I wonder if something epic will happen!! C'mon Mike- don't let us down!Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm going to pull an all nighter [I'm on the opposite side of the world]. Come on Mike, what you got up your magician's sleeve? I'm sure it will be EPIC.
/judge/ rr/ geek/
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner?
As for this part of the question...I can say that what the judge did by pointing out the difference between exhibit 31 and 32 is not only perfectly normal for any judge to do...but it's also important for a judge to address the jury whenever there is a video/audio exhibit followed by a transcript. A jury will always be given these instructions (at least every court case I've watched, including most recently the Anthony trial)...a jury will be told to use the transcript as a guide but that if they hear something different, they are to use their own judgement as to what was said.
There's a lot of things I find to be 'weird' or 'funny' about Judge Pastor...but his instructions to the jury about exhibit 31 & 32 (and then again with a later exhibit) is definitely not one of them.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I really wish TS would chime in :?
I know that it is normal for a judge to explain, but he mentioned it not once, not twice, but at least 5 or 6 times with these specific exhibits. If he would just have mentioned the numbers once or twice, I wouldn't have bothered, but it definitely stood out for me and many others in chat at the same moment.
@Imconvinced: FBI? ;)
Although this courtcase might not be against the DA or judge IMO, does not mean it's not important for any sting being played out in the background. Plus it is an addition to all the other clearly false stuff to ensure they can't be accused of entrapment. Just to be clear again: I DO think there is a sting, just not against the judge or the DA as you think.
One other thing I noticed about the pharmacist that disappeared to the Philipines that reminds me of the couple who went to the Philipines and the DA Snaaaaaaaake had people go there to try and convince them to help him string MJ up from a tree. That was in 1993.Excellent dot connecting . Thankyou. /cook/
Tomorrow is the 7th day of trial. I wonder if something epic will happen!! C'mon Mike- don't let us down!Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm going to pull an all nighter [I'm on the opposite side of the world]. Come on Mike, what you got up your magician's sleeve? I'm sure it will be EPIC.
/judge/ rr/ geek/
In jermaine's book, Michwel through a brothers eyes, he wrote:
Michael was the seventh child with 7 letters in his first name and '7' was his favorite number. So numerically his name is '777' that's the jackpot right there. The lucky sevens. A number that appears once in the bible. There's a lot that can be read into a name. Thats the power of it's sound and interpretation; the story it can tell and the memories it can evoke. But 7 was central to his identity. He wore jackets with 7 sewn on his arm. When he doodled on paper 7 was tagged all over. And what the world never saw were his pencil sketches in later life for a furniture range in his head. He drew thronelike upholstered chairs with 7 carved into the center of the oak frame beneath the seat, set within an intricate floral design
Come on Adi, you can do it!! I missed last night because the body needed sleep and I'm kicking myself cause I wanted to observe 'Conrad's women'. I don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep. :-[
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Lawyers for the man charged with the manslaughter death of Michael Jackson actually misspelled the King of Pop’s first name in a chart shown today to jurors during the defense’s opening statement in a Los Angeles courtroom.
As seen above, the chart placed on an easel by Ed Chernoff, attorney for Conrad Murray, spells the first name of the world’s most famous entertainer “Micheal.”
L.A. prosecutors today also ran into spelling problems during their opening statement. As seen here, on one of the slides shown to jurors, the word “pronounced” was missing the second “n.”
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Yes Mish1981 Monstertooty did call but not the right place imo. The people to ask would be the TV network---->(In Session/HLN) or someone in the court house. That would be the better options. ;)
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#%21/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Hi, TS. I noticed not only the number of your post but also the time. It includes those familiar numbers 31 and 32 that we are discussing so much. ;)
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Brilliant!!!
Was he on the bed or was he on the floor??? On the bed or on the floor... on the bed or on the floor... THAT is the question.
Excellent connection RK, just excellent.
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Brilliant!!!
Was he on the bed or was he on the floor??? On the bed or on the floor... on the bed or on the floor... THAT is the question.
Excellent connection RK, just excellent.
Agree x10!
Just brilliant! /bravo/
Maybe THAT's what all the friggen 'tie' articles from TMZ are about...maybe we're supposed to be trying to 'tie' in current events (in FRONT of our eyes) with past events (BACKground - 2005).
I'm sure Mike planned all this (the hoax) years ago...BUT Back only began posting in 2005 (30-04-2005 or 7-7 lol). I believe that a HUGE reason for this hoax is that whole ordeal that he was put though.
Justice....it's time.
Gonna be on the look-out for any more 'ties'...great work RK!
With L.O.V.E. always.
In jermaine's book, Michwel through a brothers eyes, he wrote:
Michael was the seventh child with 7 letters in his first name and '7' was his favorite number. So numerically his name is '777' that's the jackpot right there. The lucky sevens. A number that appears once in the bible. There's a lot that can be read into a name. Thats the power of it's sound and interpretation; the story it can tell and the memories it can evoke. But 7 was central to his identity. He wore jackets with 7 sewn on his arm. When he doodled on paper 7 was tagged all over. And what the world never saw were his pencil sketches in later life for a furniture range in his head. He drew thronelike upholstered chairs with 7 carved into the center of the oak frame beneath the seat, set within an intricate floral design
I don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep.Yes, in the same way that no one has seen a picture of Murray and MJ together. There were going to be 3 women in the bed with Michael, as he told someone, "I can handle it!" :lol: Just something else that came to my mind about this BED illusion, remember way back that MJ supposedly wrote this 'story' for his kids on pieces of paper.
Jackson 'wrote chilling story about child abuser, serial killer starring his own kids'
Agencies Jun 28, 2009, 12.44pm IST
LONDON: Among the documents found after Michael Jackson's tragic death is a controversial play written by him about a child-abuser and serial killer that stars his own children as victims.
The play, called 'Kids on Swings', envisions a nightmare of Prince Michael II and Jacko's daughter Paris, who are captured by a beast who slaughters children with a 'sling blade', the News of the World reports.
The King of Pop wrote it when he visited the UK in 2006, a year after being acquitted of child abuse charges.
The story is etched in black and blue pens on the back of letters and pictures of an Irish Georgian Castle.
The play starts with Jacko's son Prince Michael II and daughter, Paris, playing on the swing before the 'disinterested' boy runs off.
"He runs to the brook skipping past rocks silhouetted against a crystal lake," Jacko wrote.
A pack of wild dogs then hunt the pair as Paris screams for her 'DAD.'
In the next scene, the children find a man working in a field with a sling blade.
"We see him working but we can't see his face," Jackson wrote.
The identity of the evil man is soon revealed.
Prince's character tells his sister: "He murdered his wife and no one ever sees his kids cause he keeps them tied to the bed like his wife, before he murdered her. He starves them FIRST then he murdered them, Paris."
The following scene shows Prince and Paris in bed scared to sleep and the description of the monstrous man.
It reads: "He starved a man for 2 weeks. Just before killing him they had a fight. The guy he was trying to kill grabbed the knife to attack him. And he cut him over the eyes.
"He then got scared and ran into what they call the endless BLACK FOREST . . . he was never found again. Because they say there is no way out of the endless Black Forest."
Shaking with fear, the children peer through the window of his cottage before a creepy scene in which he comes up behind them.
The monster then hunts them down in the forest before Prince apparently dies with his sister's head on his 'lifeless chest.'
In a twist in the tail, the man carries Prince back to the cottage and holds hands with Paris. She is described as feeling 'safe and loved by him.'
The man then "carries Prince to his bed and puts the cover over the sick boy."
When her brother finally wakes up, Paris calms the traumatised boy as she tells him the man "won't hurt you".
The bizarre closing lines read: "He pulls the Toys from his jacket. What was broken is now mended, Fixed Paris. He didn't steal our toys Prince he fixed them. KIDS are happy to see their fixed toys again.
"Man gets up, walks to the door right before he exits Prince says thank you they exchange smiles and we see him."
The 13-page read was supposedly penned down when the 'Thriller' singer was doped up on a cocktail of powerful narcotic painkillers.
Erik Rees, a graphologist who has been observing the star's writing for 30 years is of the opinion that the play suggests that the legends dealt with "split personality".
Jackson may have read the play to his children before they slept at night. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko
Ok something is seriously going on...
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol)
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.
Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.
A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
( TMZ deleted the article only 5 mins after posting it, luckily my app on my phone still shows it)
Holy sh*t..that was me last night (my time here in Australia)!!!!! before I went to bed...now is the 1st chance I have managed to get on here and read what happened overnight. It's over on page 28 :lol: in response to the post by BeTheChange saying we should make requests.... :lol:
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny[/b] :lol:
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
RKI had forgotten all about that story. What an adventure we have been on for the past 2 years. Priceless. This story brings to my mind the character Boo Radley in To Kill A Mockingbird.QuoteI don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep.Yes, in the same way that no one has seen a picture of Murray and MJ together. There were going to be 3 women in the bed with Michael, as he told someone, "I can handle it!" :lol: Just something else that came to my mind about this BED illusion, remember way back that MJ supposedly wrote this 'story' for his kids on pieces of paper.QuoteJackson 'wrote chilling story about child abuser, serial killer starring his own kids'
Agencies Jun 28, 2009, 12.44pm IST
LONDON: Among the documents found after Michael Jackson's tragic death is a controversial play written by him about a child-abuser and serial killer that stars his own children as victims.
The play, called 'Kids on Swings', envisions a nightmare of Prince Michael II and Jacko's daughter Paris, who are captured by a beast who slaughters children with a 'sling blade', the News of the World reports.
The King of Pop wrote it when he visited the UK in 2006, a year after being acquitted of child abuse charges.
The story is etched in black and blue pens on the back of letters and pictures of an Irish Georgian Castle.
The play starts with Jacko's son Prince Michael II and daughter, Paris, playing on the swing before the 'disinterested' boy runs off.
"He runs to the brook skipping past rocks silhouetted against a crystal lake," Jacko wrote.
A pack of wild dogs then hunt the pair as Paris screams for her 'DAD.'
In the next scene, the children find a man working in a field with a sling blade.
"We see him working but we can't see his face," Jackson wrote.
The identity of the evil man is soon revealed.
Prince's character tells his sister: "He murdered his wife and no one ever sees his kids cause he keeps them tied to the bed like his wife, before he murdered her. He starves them FIRST then he murdered them, Paris."
The following scene shows Prince and Paris in bed scared to sleep and the description of the monstrous man.
It reads: "He starved a man for 2 weeks. Just before killing him they had a fight. The guy he was trying to kill grabbed the knife to attack him. And he cut him over the eyes.
"He then got scared and ran into what they call the endless BLACK FOREST . . . he was never found again. Because they say there is no way out of the endless Black Forest."
Shaking with fear, the children peer through the window of his cottage before a creepy scene in which he comes up behind them.
The monster then hunts them down in the forest before Prince apparently dies with his sister's head on his 'lifeless chest.'
In a twist in the tail, the man carries Prince back to the cottage and holds hands with Paris. She is described as feeling 'safe and loved by him.'
The man then "carries Prince to his bed and puts the cover over the sick boy."
When her brother finally wakes up, Paris calms the traumatised boy as she tells him the man "won't hurt you".
The bizarre closing lines read: "He pulls the Toys from his jacket. What was broken is now mended, Fixed Paris. He didn't steal our toys Prince he fixed them. KIDS are happy to see their fixed toys again.
"Man gets up, walks to the door right before he exits Prince says thank you they exchange smiles and we see him."
The 13-page read was supposedly penned down when the 'Thriller' singer was doped up on a cocktail of powerful narcotic painkillers.
Erik Rees, a graphologist who has been observing the star's writing for 30 years is of the opinion that the play suggests that the legends dealt with "split personality".
Jackson may have read the play to his children before they slept at night. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko
He's not a monster after all, and didn't murder or steal toys but fixed them! A bed in the story!
RKI had forgotten all about that story. What an adventure we have been on for the past 2 years. Priceless. This story brings to my mind the character Boo Radley in To Kill A Mockingbird.QuoteI don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep.Yes, in the same way that no one has seen a picture of Murray and MJ together. There were going to be 3 women in the bed with Michael, as he told someone, "I can handle it!" :lol: Just something else that came to my mind about this BED illusion, remember way back that MJ supposedly wrote this 'story' for his kids on pieces of paper.QuoteJackson 'wrote chilling story about child abuser, serial killer starring his own kids'
Agencies Jun 28, 2009, 12.44pm IST
LONDON: Among the documents found after Michael Jackson's tragic death is a controversial play written by him about a child-abuser and serial killer that stars his own children as victims.
The play, called 'Kids on Swings', envisions a nightmare of Prince Michael II and Jacko's daughter Paris, who are captured by a beast who slaughters children with a 'sling blade', the News of the World reports.
The King of Pop wrote it when he visited the UK in 2006, a year after being acquitted of child abuse charges.
The story is etched in black and blue pens on the back of letters and pictures of an Irish Georgian Castle.
The play starts with Jacko's son Prince Michael II and daughter, Paris, playing on the swing before the 'disinterested' boy runs off.
"He runs to the brook skipping past rocks silhouetted against a crystal lake," Jacko wrote.
A pack of wild dogs then hunt the pair as Paris screams for her 'DAD.'
In the next scene, the children find a man working in a field with a sling blade.
"We see him working but we can't see his face," Jackson wrote.
The identity of the evil man is soon revealed.
Prince's character tells his sister: "He murdered his wife and no one ever sees his kids cause he keeps them tied to the bed like his wife, before he murdered her. He starves them FIRST then he murdered them, Paris."
The following scene shows Prince and Paris in bed scared to sleep and the description of the monstrous man.
It reads: "He starved a man for 2 weeks. Just before killing him they had a fight. The guy he was trying to kill grabbed the knife to attack him. And he cut him over the eyes.
"He then got scared and ran into what they call the endless BLACK FOREST . . . he was never found again. Because they say there is no way out of the endless Black Forest."
Shaking with fear, the children peer through the window of his cottage before a creepy scene in which he comes up behind them.
The monster then hunts them down in the forest before Prince apparently dies with his sister's head on his 'lifeless chest.'
In a twist in the tail, the man carries Prince back to the cottage and holds hands with Paris. She is described as feeling 'safe and loved by him.'
The man then "carries Prince to his bed and puts the cover over the sick boy."
When her brother finally wakes up, Paris calms the traumatised boy as she tells him the man "won't hurt you".
The bizarre closing lines read: "He pulls the Toys from his jacket. What was broken is now mended, Fixed Paris. He didn't steal our toys Prince he fixed them. KIDS are happy to see their fixed toys again.
"Man gets up, walks to the door right before he exits Prince says thank you they exchange smiles and we see him."
The 13-page read was supposedly penned down when the 'Thriller' singer was doped up on a cocktail of powerful narcotic painkillers.
Erik Rees, a graphologist who has been observing the star's writing for 30 years is of the opinion that the play suggests that the legends dealt with "split personality".
Jackson may have read the play to his children before they slept at night. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko)
He's not a monster after all, and didn't murder or steal toys but fixed them! A bed in the story!
In some notes about that book, I read- and this is speaking of the three children Jem, Scout and Dill...By searching for the man who has been made into a monster by society- they bring back his basic common humanity and unite him with everyone else in spite of his unusual personality, You know with a little stretch of the imagination, those children and their actions could relate to us, the believers, and how we've been searching to discover the man we never knew, who had been painted unjustly as some kind of monster by society. Anyhow, I have digressed from topic far enough for today.
@Adi...yes it is significant. TMZ have been playing with us for years, but this time they moved Murray as well. :shock:
Today is the seventh day of the trial and the witnesses today are the staff of the coroner office, it's right!
Today can be one scary day, (http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000203DD.gif) I mean, interesting day to watch. rr/
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/michael-jackson/misspelled-michael-jackson-894016
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/jackospelling.jpg)QuoteLawyers for the man charged with the manslaughter death of Michael Jackson actually misspelled the King of Pop’s first name in a chart shown today to jurors during the defense’s opening statement in a Los Angeles courtroom.
As seen above, the chart placed on an easel by Ed Chernoff, attorney for Conrad Murray, spells the first name of the world’s most famous entertainer “Micheal.”
L.A. prosecutors today also ran into spelling problems during their opening statement. As seen here, on one of the slides shown to jurors, the word “pronounced” was missing the second “n.”
This is deticated to PureLove for the name spelled wrong. This is deticated to bec for the missing "n" in the word pronouced. I was smiling wide when I found this. We aren't the only ones paying attention. lolol/
@RK-I hope I got that info right I was going by memory about the Philipines.
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field.
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field.
Am I being ignored? Did you read what I wrote on the 31st page? I wrote many times on this forum that I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW this stuff. And seriously it is pissing me off that noone seems to care what I say.
I'll be keeping things to myself now on because it is like being a doctor, coming to this forum and writing what you know about CPR and noone cares about it and keep on writing what they think about the issue. I'm so much offended. Anyways... I wrote the truth and people can enjoy their time dreaming about Murray is Michael. Talking in general here, not at you Bethechange.
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Today is the seventh day of the trial and the witnesses today are the staff of the coroner office, it's right!
Today can be one scary day, (http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000203DD.gif) I mean, interesting day to watch. rr/
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#%21/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Why does Dr Murray always seem to record all his conversations with Michael?
The Supreme Court decided in 1963 that a truth serum-induced confession was unconstitutionally coerced. More recently, state courts have found truth serum-induced testimony to be scientifically unreliable and inadmissible.
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field.
Am I being ignored? Did you read what I wrote on the 31st page? I wrote many times on this forum that I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW this stuff. And seriously it is pissing me off that noone seems to care what I say.
I'll be keeping things to myself now on because it is like being a doctor, coming to this forum and writing what you know about CPR and noone cares about it and keep on writing what they think about the issue. I'm so much offended. Anyways... I wrote the truth and people can enjoy their time dreaming about Murray is Michael. Talking in general here, not at you Bethechange.
I read what you wrote and it makes perfect sense to me. I think that Murray represents Michael in the hoax but that's it. bearhug
PS> @PureLove.....I LOVE your posts...I am sorry you feel badly and think nobody cares :? I can very much relate. I just chalk it up to the board moving so quickly that posts get moved off the first page. I think many people don't take the time to begin reading from where they left off. Ultimately, they are missing huge sections of great thoughts. I am sorry for your frustrations.....feel free to poke around, it will make you feel better, lol. The Pokester has gone missing these days...too busy with court perhaps, lol. Have a good day PureLove........
Just want to clarify my post above...
Of course, as someone who has loved MJ my whole life...hearing him talk about his hurt and lack of childhood...always pierces my heart. What I don't feel bad about is what the media is already focusing on....his state (i.e. being drugged). They are not even talking about the 'message'...just that he was drugged out of his mind (yet was able to string together sentences with coherent pronou_ciation (lol) and a meaningful message :? )
The recording was 4 min and 12 seconds = once again, lucky #7 ;)
EDIT: They just played it again (they will keep playing it)...if you listen closely, his speech becomes more clear towards the end of the recording. For someone under so much influence of drugs...who is in the process of getting knocked out (falling asleep)...it makes no sense that he would become more coherent and understandable right before falling asleep....it would be the opposite.
With L.O.V.E. always.
@PureLove...
What I meant in the part of my post that you quoted, bolded, and enlarged...was explained further in the sentence that followed it. I may have missed certain members, but I have yet to come across any member who has claimed to be a SCIENTIST working on leading/cutting edge technology. IF Murray is Mike (and I concede, as I always have, that this would be difficult to pull off)...then we're not talking about regular special effects, or film design, or behind the scenes technical experience...we're talking technology (IF a mask is being used)...that very few are specialized in, or have been exposed to, because it would be NEW...cutting edge technology.
You are very adamant that it is NOT possible...and based on your knowledge, that is your truth....and you have every right to state your opinion. You said that no one pays attention to your reasons for thinking it's not possible (which, again, you are mistaken because I do pay attention)..
"Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field"
but you also have closed the door on it having any possibility...therefore, you are not considering the posts that suggest Murray could be Mike. 90% of this hoax, at this point, is theory...for us to get upset over trying to prove we are 'right' and someone is 'wrong'...will only lead to a very bumpy ride lol. Instead, I prefer to remain open to any and every possibility...but that's just me.
If we were having this convo in person, I'd give you a hug right now PureLove...so here's a virtual one bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @PureLove...
If Mike had come to you because of your experience in the film biz...and told you he wanted to create a never-before-seen 'illusion' that would require him to be much larger in size (height, weight, bone structure, etc)...would you have turned him away saying "Nope...it's impossible...can't be done". Or would you have researched and networked with people in trying to turn this dream into a reality for Mike?
IF Mike did approach anyone with this request...I would bet a shitload of money on that person moving heaven and hell to at least TRY to see if it could be done...despite thinking it's impossible. In fact, I honestly believe that the relationship between Mike and anyone who would tell him that something is impossible...would be a short-lived relationship (the very word 'impossible' slams the door on creativity, innovation, and vision). We see evidence of this in TII...with all the technical, costume, directing, etc people...going 'way outta the box' to try to make Mike's visions a reality...visions, that for the most part, had never been done before.
@PureLove...I'm glad you're feeling better ::P
You make it clear, once again, that you stand by your beliefs as FACT...and as I said in my earlier post, that is your right.
Given that this hoax is full of theories, though, there will be times when we may not like and/or agree with some of the things discussed. IMO just because we may not agree with or like a certain 'theory', doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. I hope we can also agree on that.
I also hope that you didn't interpret anything I wrote as a personal attack on you. I realize that it's difficult to 'feel' someone's intentions, at times, through a forum...but rest assured that in no way did I mean to offend you. In the 2 years that I have been on this forum, I can't think of one post where I intentionally meant to offend, insult, demean, or make fun of another member....and it will continue to be that way even if that requires ending a conversation.
With L.O.V.E. always.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/05/article-2045543-0E3C04C100000578-460_308x628.jpg)
Murray was so happy last night! Neither seems bored of the same court. smiley_spider
^^ Looks like peacock earrings...
<img src="http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio1.jpg (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio1.jpg)">
<img src="http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio2.jpg (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio2.jpg)">
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/05/article-2045543-0E3C04C100000578-460_308x628.jpg)
Murray was so happy last night! Neither seems bored of the same court. smiley_spider
NPG being the copyrighters doesn't indicate that the date published may be in fact the date of shooting the pic. We've had that before. Could be an older pic, especially because the child doesn't really grow in the course of time.
The trial err.. circus continues! Just wanted to post the other and bigger elephant! bounce/
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Uhm... I KNOW he was talking about exhibits. I was watching and listening at the moment and I KNOW he wasn't randomly talking to the jury about the stars on the seal. Why do you think that? I explained what I meant with it, but I will do it again:
The judge payed the MOST attention to these two exhibits. Coincidentally, these numbers are the numbers on the seals (31: real, 32: fake or copy).
You can say that it has nothing to do with it, but that's just your opinion and not fact. I think the coincidence is too big here, that is why I pointed it out and if you want to debunk it, you gotta come with more than just an opinion.
And someone already called, it's somewhere in the thread.
This message is to show the real Michael. Who loves his children, who feels the pain of an unhappy childhood, who want to excel as an artist and that is a great philanthropist who loves children.
No one who is under delusions, admits "I'm sleeping." The most common is we insist that we are lucid, is not it? :oops:
Is that a toy cat in front of the plant next to the lap top?The trial err.. circus continues! Just wanted to post the other and bigger elephant! bounce/
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
The elephant is growing.... :lol: /judge/
Is that a toy cat in front of the plant next to the lap top?The trial err.. circus continues! Just wanted to post the other and bigger elephant! bounce/
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
The elephant is growing.... :lol: /judge/
Yes I see that big elephant Paula. But there's a white cat in front of the plant next to the lap top as well. :geek:
Guys, do you see anything in particular about the photo of Michael. Take a look at the wrist and go up the arm. Do you notice that the elbow seems a little bigger. And I want to let you guys know something. Not to long ago I was picked for Jury Duty and got select as a juror for a criminal trial. With everything that has been going on with the Michael Jackson Situation with the courts and all. I became more observant in the courtroom. And let me tell you couple of things: There were not toys in the courtroom. What was also interesting was that this was a case of a criminal possession of drugs and weapons and the Prosecutor was arrogant in his thinking because he had the evidence( there were a lot of evidence) you would not believe but there were photos also. So there was a lot of evidences in which the Prosecutor that was enough to convict. So as the trial went on the prosecutor got more and more arrogant and sometimes is innuendoes was very inappropriate. As the witness presented their side of the story, it got to be more interesting. Because some of the basic procedures seems like they were overlooked and some of the eyewitness testimony had some holes in it. We were able to see all of the evidences and it was time for deliberations: what everyone agree upon was a not guilty verdict. Mainly because out of all the evidences that was presented there was no evidences to link the accusing of the crime. There was one instance during the deliberations that we request the photos. One of the photo consist of a lock and a key. What was so interesting about this photo was that the set of keys that was presented in court did not concide with the photo. We all examine the photo carefully and was able to point out the inconsistences in the photo. The keys were not the same and that the keys that was claimed to fit the lock did not fit. Only one of the 2 keys fit the lock. It was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I also want to let you know that there were additional evidences at the scene of the crime that was not taken in by the police that will help them with their further investigation. So the important thing is this ALL THE EVIDENCE IN THE WORLD CANNOT CONVICT SOMEONE IF THERE IS NO LINK TO THE ACCUSER. AND DO NOT ALWAYS BELIEVE WHAT YOU HEAR OR SAY. TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF THE REAL TRUTH NOT WHAT SOMEONE WANT YOU TO BELIEVE. This experience of Jury Duty was an eye-opener for me. An Innocent person would have going to prison for something he did not do. Our Judicial System needs to be cleaned up a little bit more.
Why is TS speaking in the third person? Anyone?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/KC.jpg)
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
If anyone needs a good laugh, to help you get through the trial, take a look at the comments about the 777 bottles of propofol kicking around on the floor {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339)}.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol: ) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court). In the previous levels, I have not had time to answer many of the comments; and frequently the comments are off topic, or repetition from those who haven’t read everything in the thread. So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive; hopefully this will make things more efficient. bangbang bangbang
Let the hopping begin!
/judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/
@Souza ~ I'd like to know who the corpse is sitting to Murray's left? His eyebrows look like MJ's in Ghost. The scary MJ, not the mayor.
@BeTheChange-I really hope you are speaking about the media not picking up on the 2 testimonies that would be relevant to a sting theory and your not referring to me. I did not see the first half of court today. I came online after lunch and got to see all the bottles and bags. Anyone can help do the sting theory it isn't just mine alone. smiley_spider
For a dead Mike he has a nice tan. mj_dance/Yes chappie,I was just thinking similarly... MJ has a lovely, healthy skin tone and complexion in this photo, except for that hand...so he must have wore a glove in the sun at least. ::P
So after treatment by dr Conny a nice vacation in the sun?
Conny should have known that Mike had to stay away from the sun.
Where the hell was his umbrella!
Bad bad Doc!
Anyone a cup of /cook/ ?
5'11" to 6'3" is only 4 inches. Make the head a little higher and add some heels and it's done. But Murray is not MJ in court (although very possibly on other occasions). What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
As one of the ones who do not believe Murray is Michael in disguise, I wanted to answer this. No, these do not make it any real. I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW these kind of masks, prosthetic make up etc and I KNOW as a fact that it is not possible to make a 5'9 man a 6'3 man. You need to add extra arms, fake hands to keep the balance btw the length of the arms and the body. And when you do that, you need to feed the vision of that person with some video effects because he can not use his hands like his own hands. It's easy to create new faces and even bodies as long as you keep the lenght of the person same. You can make him look taller or shorter but you need to do it with visual effects. Wish I could explain it better in english and trying it but this is all I can do. You need to add extra arms and legs to make him 6'3 tall which would make him stand still and not move.
5'11" to 6'3" is only 4 inches. Make the head a little higher and add some heels and it's done. But Murray is not MJ in court (although very possibly on other occasions). What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
As the story unfolds…
If you thought there was nothing more to say about Michael Jackson, just wait…
unauthorized biography of Michael Jackson
The paparazzi would not leave him alone
More allegations made against the performer
And what they did find was a series of lies
…about Michael Jackson
I am having fun watching this story UNFOLD before our eyes. The climax will show how foolish all these so called professional reporters and analyst's are . The lies were planted and they all are going with what they want the story to be,also did they really investigate as good as the hoax believer's I think not. The detectives on this case seem like the keystone cops. Can Murray be Michael in the flesh? I would not put anything past the master of disguise. As I believe he truly has been underestimated by the media and our judicial system as well. I can't wait till this story fully unfolds it will be a real shocker to the world ! /bravo/
About the 'death' picture: by the look of it it's Mike himself, posing for this picture, although I do think some Adobe was used here and there. Looks pretty good for a dead guy. :lol:
@PureLove, you're assuming MJ is 5'9. I don't deny what you're saying in regards to your profession, but I do deny that you can safely assume what height MJ really is and then base your theory on what is impossible on that. I will ask, in your professional opinion, is it possible to make a disguised person 4" taller? I think of women wearing 4" heels and that is fairly common and normal and they don't look weird or out of proportion. I can only go off my real life personal experience, so I consult you on this one. 4", possible or no?
What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
@PureLove, you're assuming MJ is 5'9. I don't deny what you're saying in regards to your profession, but I do deny that you can safely assume what height MJ really is and then base your theory on what is impossible on that. I will ask, in your professional opinion, is it possible to make a disguised person 4" taller? I think of women wearing 4" heels and that is fairly common and normal and they don't look weird or out of proportion. I can only go off my real life personal experience, so I consult you on this one. 4", possible or no?
Hey bec sweets,
Well, we have talked about different heights of MJ, and the maximum of them is 5'11, right? I personally do not believe that Michael is taller than 5'9. So let's assume that he is 5'9 and let's assume that he used secret high heels; still you can not hide a 4 inch (10 cm) heel. Plus, we saw Murray's shoes many times and I do not see any place to hide the high heels in his shoes. If there wasn't a BIG difference btw Murray and Michael, I would definitely think that it could be him in disguise but when I compare the proportions of Murray and Michael, it is not possible whatever you use.
@PureLove, you're assuming MJ is 5'9. I don't deny what you're saying in regards to your profession, but I do deny that you can safely assume what height MJ really is and then base your theory on what is impossible on that. I will ask, in your professional opinion, is it possible to make a disguised person 4" taller? I think of women wearing 4" heels and that is fairly common and normal and they don't look weird or out of proportion. I can only go off my real life personal experience, so I consult you on this one. 4", possible or no?
Hey bec sweets,
Well, we have talked about different heights of MJ, and the maximum of them is 5'11, right? I personally do not believe that Michael is taller than 5'9. So let's assume that he is 5'9 and let's assume that he used secret high heels; still you can not hide a 4 inch (10 cm) heel. Plus, we saw Murray's shoes many times and I do not see any place to hide the high heels in his shoes. If there wasn't a BIG difference btw Murray and Michael, I would definitely think that it could be him in disguise but when I compare the proportions of Murray and Michael, it is not possible whatever you use.
All assumptions aside, I'm asking, in your professional opinion (because I do defer to that), is it possible to make someone 4" taller for the sake of movie magic and disguise?
5'11" to 6'3" is only 4 inches. Make the head a little higher and add some heels and it's done. But Murray is not MJ in court (although very possibly on other occasions). What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
Souza and PureLove I'm with you both, Murray is NOT Michael.I want to write down what PureLove told us some time ago because I think is very important.Not only for this case,but for the 2005 "trial" also,because it brings BACK agian Michael's height,which always was an ENIGMA for all of us.Please bear with me, because I think this is very important.
PurteLove:QuoteAs one of the ones who do not believe Murray is Michael in disguise, I wanted to answer this. No, these do not make it any real. I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW these kind of masks, prosthetic make up etc and I KNOW as a fact that it is not possible to make a 5'9 man a 6'3 man. You need to add extra arms, fake hands to keep the balance btw the length of the arms and the body. And when you do that, you need to feed the vision of that person with some video effects because he can not use his hands like his own hands. It's easy to create new faces and even bodies as long as you keep the lenght of the person same. You can make him look taller or shorter but you need to do it with visual effects. Wish I could explain it better in english and trying it but this is all I can do. You need to add extra arms and legs to make him 6'3 tall which would make him stand still and not move.
Now if I remember correct when Michael was arrested in 2005,"the police told us " Michael is 5'11'.But how is this possible,if Michael was clearly shorter?????? We are talking about police and a serious arrest here,not some kind of check routine for staffing,lol ::).This makes you wonder ,about many things regarding that trial,no?????
(http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/music/gallery/2008/aug/27/michaeljackson/2003-Arrest-rex_437054a-9180.jpg)
I'm a fan of Michael since childwood and for me he was never a very tall men.For most of the time when he was not performing ,I saw him with boots,and sometime with boots that had high heels.I dont know how many of here feels but I think that a tall men would never wear heels ,maybe a shorter one(like Prince) yes,but a taller one,NO.Here are some pictures from different era with Michael wearing boots:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/25/article-2030021-00EEBDBB00000190-128_634x602.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/25/article-0-00EEC98500000191-171_634x815.jpg)
(http://www.imbaha.com/images/lisa-marie-presley-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/Seven_Of_Nine/Michael%20Jackson%20Macros/Boots-1.jpg)
Michael is/was not 5'11',and maybe not even 5'9' also.
Height: 5 feet 2 inches tall
(http://putzle.com/files/2011/08/mj-frank-Dileo.png)
Height: 5' 9" (1.75 m)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/-7gBwRG-6YJk/S-P_2nCxCdI/AAAAAAAAWQ8/dVpIkbHZIJ0/018.jpg)
Height: 5' 4" Here she had high heels
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_xFP6s39OUYY/Sl8ReGvEpGI/AAAAAAAANu0/w-qiqZ7KHhw/Michael_Jackson_with_the_Reagans_thumb%5B1%5D.png)
(http://nativenotes.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mike-regan.jpg)
Height: 5' 7" (1.70 m)
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/specials/michaeljackson/kingofpop/michael-jackson-8.jpg)
Height: 5' 7" (1.70 m)
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktuwm0tMZk1qa3e65o1_500.jpg)
Height: 5' 9½" (1.77 m)
(http://mob1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb350/mjfan5/badtour439.jpg?t=1297383222)
HOW TALL WAS MICHAEL JACKSON REALLY?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pcf9BlWdc[/youtube]
Conclusion: Murray is not Michael,it just can't be!!!!
During this hoax Michael's height was always brought in our face,over and over again.Michael told us how tall he is in Moonwalk book,and after that we heard about his heigh during 2005 trial,during Michael arrest ,during autopsy release,and now with the "SHORT-dead" ::) WTF?? photo from hospital.I dont know about you my friends,but this to me it sounds very strange,and makes me wonder how real was everything that happend after THRILLER or BAD.
LOVE
I think it is possible that the dead "Michael" on the hospital bed to be a double who died of a terminal illness.
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
It is the eye which makes the horizon. ♥ Emerson
I think it is possible that the dead "Michael" on the hospital bed to be a double who died of a terminal illness.
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
If you think about it, the body on the gurney could very well be E'Casanova. He was supposedly diagnosed with a life threatening illness in 2007(?). I think he knew very well that he was going to pass and that was Michael's way of transitioning into the reality of the hoax. Or I am wrong.
I think it is possible that the dead "Michael" on the hospital bed to be a double who died of a terminal illness.
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
If you think about it, the body on the gurney could very well be E'Casanova. He was supposedly diagnosed with a life threatening illness in 2007(?). I think he knew very well that he was going to pass and that was Michael's way of transitioning into the reality of the hoax. Or I am wrong.
E'cas is alive and fine.
Don't shoot the messenger. I know this photo might upset some of you but it needs to be dissected. Bad choice of word. pale/ (http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)
Looking at this picture with out the green hue what do you all see? What do you all think? Real corpse/body made to look like MJ? A staged picture where MJ actually posed for it? Not a real human but a wax dummy and staged?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofolbottle-1.jpg)
I can not see the slit in the saline bag. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/bottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramatic-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/shitloadofbottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/3dmeds-1.jpg)
LMAO at the 3d effect. Those of us who were in chat when this photo was shown noticed the leaves and thought of TS and his leaf pattern in the ambulance picture. ;)
Guys, something is bugging me each time i "turn on" tmz for watching the trial. /pull hair/
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
OMG! lolol/ Your classic! LOLDon't shoot the messenger. I know this photo might upset some of you but it needs to be dissected. Bad choice of word. pale/ (http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)
Looking at this picture with out the green hue what do you all see? What do you all think? Real corpse/body made to look like MJ? A staged picture where MJ actually posed for it? Not a real human but a wax dummy and staged?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofolbottle-1.jpg)
I can not see the slit in the saline bag. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/bottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramatic-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/shitloadofbottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/3dmeds-1.jpg)
LMAO at the 3d effect. Those of us who were in chat when this photo was shown noticed the leaves and thought of TS and his leaf pattern in the ambulance picture. ;)
Wow! This thread is busier than a one legged zebra being chased by a pack of hyenas. lol
I will comment on this picture though, the skin tone is a big NO. MJ has a forehead, not a sixhead lol.
And this picture is more stretched out than Dolly Parton's sports bra.
lol I'm just saying.
Guys, something is bugging me each time i "turn on" tmz for watching the trial. /pull hair/
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
Guys, something is bugging me each time i "turn on" tmz for watching the trial. /pull hair/
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
Agree with Jaci. Susie, there's nothing to be depressed. Try to watch the trial on this forum with us. We chat and talk about the witnesses and even if you do not understand word by word what they're talking about, believers help you a lot to understand what's going on. I'm not a native english speaker and thanks to people on the chat, I understand what's really going on in the trial room. And plus, it's more fun to watch it with the group. :mrgreen: It was fun to watch Ms. Fleak today. She couldn't remember anything and Ed was about to slap her on the face. :lol:
About the 'death' picture: by the look of it it's Mike himself, posing for this picture, although I do think some Adobe was used here and there. Looks pretty good for a dead guy. :lol:
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
I was not going to elaborate on the Murray being Michael issue, however........ I'm compelled. Everyone involved in this forum is, at least, somewhat aware of how Michael has operated(Sade). That being said..... pardon my crude abuse of the punctuation system...i pause a lot............HEIGHT...seriously???? You(know who you are) really think that after all we have seen and been through together that a mans height cannot be overcome in the grand scheme of things???? Has Murray stood up in court? Do you know the heights of others around him? Do you understand that a person standing in front of another...or next to...or behind...changes perspective?
This MAN has fooled at least 98% of the planet into thinking he died on June 25th 2009....right? Does someone have a map or appendix or glossary that I am not aware of? Impossible is not possible when it comes to THIS! I beLIEve IT is bigger and broader than any of us can IMAGINE. For God's sake... WE spent at least a year deciphering his middle name.........................
Maybe he isn't Murray..maybe he isn't hatman..maybe he isn't Dave Dave....get my point? To argue is pointless and to try to debunk a theory that 2+ years of research has uncovered is equally pointless. My question is why the stop sign? Why the red light? Look at Murray...actions speak louder than words. To believe Murray(in court) could never be Michael is to believe the Pictures TMZ and HLN and CNN have shown you of him all this time.
We as believers have learned(have been taught) to dream bigger..to read between the lines..and more importantly...start with the man in the mirror. Look at yourself and ask...what would I do..how would I act......
One song has stuck out for me. It's the one that makes me say anything is possible. Pop superstars don't write songs like this one.......
LISTEN!!!!!!! with eyes wide open. L.O.V.E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA) angel................................
I was not going to elaborate on the Murray being Michael issue, however........ I'm compelled. Everyone involved in this forum is, at least, somewhat aware of how Michael has operated(Sade). That being said..... pardon my crude abuse of the punctuation system...i pause a lot............HEIGHT...seriously???? You(know who you are) really think that after all we have seen and been through together that a mans height cannot be overcome in the grand scheme of things???? Has Murray stood up in court? Do you know the heights of others around him? Do you understand that a person standing in front of another...or next to...or behind...changes perspective?
This MAN has fooled at least 98% of the planet into thinking he died on June 25th 2009....right? Does someone have a map or appendix or glossary that I am not aware of? Impossible is not possible when it comes to THIS! I beLIEve IT is bigger and broader than any of us can IMAGINE. For God's sake... WE spent at least a year deciphering his middle name.........................
Maybe he isn't Murray..maybe he isn't hatman..maybe he isn't Dave Dave....get my point? To argue is pointless and to try to debunk a theory that 2+ years of research has uncovered is equally pointless. My question is why the stop sign? Why the red light? Look at Murray...actions speak louder than words. To believe Murray(in court) could never be Michael is to believe the Pictures TMZ and HLN and CNN have shown you of him all this time.
We as believers have learned(have been taught) to dream bigger..to read between the lines..and more importantly...start with the man in the mirror. Look at yourself and ask...what would I do..how would I act......
One song has stuck out for me. It's the one that makes me say anything is possible. Pop superstars don't write songs like this one.......
LISTEN!!!!!!! with eyes wide open. L.O.V.E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA angel................................
I totally, totally agree with you Monster....after all we have learned during the past 2+ years....are we not open to the concept that anything is possible with Michael? He is a genus...master of disguise...lover of illusion...he is capable of anything in my opinion. I swear that Conrad could be Michael...and your right we have not seen him standing and I wondered about this also. mj_bad/ /bravo/
That's my point I made a WHILE back in this thread, we have never seen Murray stand up in court...I posted pics earlier in the week of "something" I spotted on Murray's face...it looked like white makeup...
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg">
It wasn't the light, it wasn't glare...after I mentioned it, when they came back from lunch, it was gone.
Nobody has even addressed these pics as to WHAT was on his face. Someone else mentioned that we see Murray "pat" his face like he's sweating in court, yes, one can sweat, but do you realize how COLD it is in the courtrooms? They blast the AC full force in there...I know..I've been a juror before and it's friggen COLD.
He scratches his neck alot and his face too...what could itch so much?
About the white smear on CM's face: mj_bad/
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)
Quote(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)
Awwww, look at him! How can anyone convict him? If this were a real case and I was one of the jurors, I would have melted if he would have given me that look. I would make a bad juror, I'm weak when it comes to men with puppy eyes :lol:
I agree that it seems like he is wearing a mask. The light spot is weird, as is the fact that he scratches his face a lot (seems itchy) and he is being very careful when he touches his face. And also think it's definitely not impossible for Michael to be under that mask, but if it's live, it seems not handy and maybe even risky. I would think that he is directing this circus behind the curtain. Unless this is all pre-recorded, but that would mean that all the witnesses have to be in on it, and the media would be in a different room than the actual courtroom, which I know they do sometimes. But in a way that seems too much unnecessary work just for him to be behind that mask. But I am not ruling it out, because I keep thinking that Murray looks very very familiar sometimes, it's something in his eyes and his mouth area. Maybe he's a family member.
Not to get too off topic of what is being posted at this time but I had to share this and I didn't know where else to put it. BUT considering the whole court issue I figured what a better place. Also if it turns out I don't want to be one of the people that say "Oh I knew that already" without having proof. Anyway...
Have you ever been in the middle of doing something and a thought pops in your head and it has nothing to do with what is at hand or a thought you were having right before it? I don't know exactly how to explain it rather then my spirit guide telling me things . But I have them from time to time and I can't force it or ask for it to happen it just does. Example: Driving home from the fire house one day in August I was thinking about what I had to do the next time I went up there. A sudden thought that came to my head told me that my step-daughter was moving out of the house, low and behold 45 minutes later her mother called and talked to my husband saying that she was in fact moving out and living with her. With that being said....
A few minutes ago I was going thru the threads and reading post and had a thought: TS has said that there will be a trial, TS never mentioned an outcome though. TS also hasn't (unless I've missed it) said when the trial is going to end. What popped in my head was, what if Michael comes thru the doors right before/after the verdict is read? Sounds weird I know I just thought I would share.
Dedicated to all the 'dreamers', the 'illogical ones', the 'time-wasters'...you ALL make this world a LOT more interesting /bravo/
And to Mike:
No matter which 'mask' you're behind in running this show....thank you for showing us how to think bigger...how to think different...how to think the way you always have.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eapxHdWot0[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Dedicated to all the 'dreamers', the 'illogical ones', the 'time-wasters'...you ALL make this world a LOT more interesting /bravo/
And to Mike:
No matter which 'mask' you're behind in running this show....thank you for showing us how to think bigger...how to think different...how to think the way you always have.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eapxHdWot0[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
@Mish1981 ....EXACTLY the line of feeling that is guiding me. Thanks for the post. You are not alone.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
Regarding LaToya's elephant comment, we were talking about this in chat today and I'm glad that someone stayed with it! I agree that they couldn't all have been given at one time and am now on the wagon with you guys on wondering why he kept them around.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
Regarding LaToya's elephant comment, we were talking about this in chat today and I'm glad that someone stayed with it! I agree that they couldn't all have been given at one time and am now on the wagon with you guys on wondering why he kept them around.
lolol/
I must have missed that part of the chat. Ok, now I'm going to write something far fetched. Latoya compared elephant and Michael with that sentence of her. I'm not so sure if I'm choosing the right words but pls try to bare with me. She said "there was enough drugs to kill an elephant in Michael's blood." Michael >>> Elephant. Elephant is in the room means Michael is in the room too? afraid/ Just thinking out loud here. We can not see the BACK seats at the room, so who knows?!? He can be there with his Uncle Willy disguise. :mrgreen:
Talking about the picture, someone posted this picture on Twitter. I'm so sorry that I can not remember who it was but I found it interesting.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2gt10k6.jpg)
It can be really MJ in the picture but the picture is definitely photoshopped. And like Im_convincedmjalive wrote, it was clear at some point and wasn't clear at the first time we saw it. It brings the question to my mind; did they make a couple of different ones of this picture with photoshop? One more clear, one with a greenish color etc? But with what purposes?
That's my point I made a WHILE back in this thread, we have never seen Murray stand up in court...I posted pics earlier in the week of "something" I spotted on Murray's face...it looked like white makeup...
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg)">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)">
It wasn't the light, it wasn't glare...after I mentioned it, when they came back from lunch, it was gone.
Nobody has even addressed these pics as to WHAT was on his face. Someone else mentioned that we see Murray "pat" his face like he's sweating in court, yes, one can sweat, but do you realize how COLD it is in the courtrooms? They blast the AC full force in there...I know..I've been a juror before and it's friggen COLD.
He scratches his neck alot and his face too...what could itch so much?
And in my humble opinion, there're so much more important things to discuss in this hoax and it is such a waste of time to discuss if Murray is MJ in disguise .[/b]
Talking about the picture, someone posted this picture on Twitter. I'm so sorry that I can not remember who it was but I found it interesting.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2gt10k6.jpg)
It can be really MJ in the picture but the picture is definitely photoshopped. And like Im_convincedmjalive wrote, it was clear at some point and wasn't clear at the first time we saw it. It brings the question to my mind; did they make a couple of different ones of this picture with photoshop? One more clear, one with a greenish color etc? But with what purposes?
I guess I was wrong and that dead Michael photo is not a picture but a photo after all. Well this is not good at all because someone said it has no aura...I have posted that LOU FERIGNO stated that MJ was a practical joker and like to place Mannequin's on ambulances. I never got one single reply,when i posted that,in a TIAI thread. Its all good to see people coming around to the idea that maybe it was a lifeless doll. It would not be the first time he has done something like this but maybe everything worked perfect this time for him. Look how far this has gone,could we be near the end? No one knows but Mike and his family,Janet said family first the fans second. “When the groove is dead and gone… You know that love survives… So we can
Well could be a dummy.....dummies don't have aura.
I think there's no problem for Michael to do himself a photo on a hospital gurney (an old one, I must add). He has a lot of fiends-doctors to help him do that. Remember Michael in a oxygen chamber? :P
However this body looks strange... that hand... suspicious//
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
This is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Oh, I remember September 5th, 2009 so well.... That was the day I posted on the old MJHD that Michael was disguised as Dave Dave on Larry King. Those of you long enough on board know exactly what happened then; I was bashed, hated, ridiculed and in no way it was possible that Michael was Dave Dave. Now, more than 2 years later, it's accepted as being self-evident. Chappie's quick photoshop art is world famous now. Patience is the key people. Ridicule and haters we can handle.
Completely off-topic:
@PureLove...I was 'mature' enough to end my conversation with you a few pages back. But it seems you can't let it go....and not only that, you have once again thrown in a personal 'jab' at me (and trust me, I can take some jabs....but that was one 'jab' too many)...and now my 'maturity' level just can't ignore it. As I stated in my post...it was dedicated to ALL who 'think differently'...I didn't list names. Funny how you don't feel you were included in the group...but I have no control over that.
If you feel the way you do based on what I posted...perhaps it's because YOU have repeatedly attempted to demean, make fun of and offend members with your attitude and words....just because they have a different perspective or dare to imagine. I have no control over that either.
This is the most straight-forward and direct post anyone will ever see me write on this forum...I am all for discussion and any 'healthy' discussion always involves opposing views...I have absolutely no problem with PureLove's perspective or any opposing perspective. Actually, I welcome it because it gives my perspective balance.
However, veiled insults to members, suggestions of lacking 'common sense', and/or repeatedly insinuating superiority over an issue that, to date, NO ONE here is qualified to speak on (a feature film scriptwriter does NOT a scientist in cutting-edge technology make...that's a FACT)....is not an opposing view. It is a means to ridicule imagination...and THAT pisses me off.
Why is it SO bad that we like to discuss the possibility that Murray is Mike??? No one is claiming it's a FACT....we are engaging in the world of imagination...that's how I see it anyway. And what better place to engage in it than on a forum dedicated to the KING of imagination. IMO imagination is what is greatly lacking in the world right now....if every single one of us walked around saying "It's impossible"...then the world ends right there.
Every one of us on this forum comes from different professions, different backgrounds, and with varying life experiences. In MY profession (an educator) the word "impossible" does not exist in my vocabulary....and in MY life experiences, having witnessed miracles taking place right before my very eyes....the very word is laughable.
Sorry for the rant...I promise that once I hit send, none of you will ever see this 'side' of me ever again. I apologize in advance to TS and everyone else for having to have witnessed it at all....but the 'moment' warranted it.
@PureLove...If you feel the need to reply to this, the pm feature is advisable....I will not 'tie' up this thread with another reply to you. And once this passes...and it will, for me anyway cause life is too short...I do hope that we can somehow find a middle ground....and despite our 'differences' there is a LOT of common ground. Being on this very forum connects us ALL on some level.
Off to youtube to watch Mike perform his magic...at this very moment, he's about the only one that can improve my 'state of mind'. And he will....he always does.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I guess I was wrong and that dead Michael photo is not a picture but a photo after all. Well this is not good at all because someone said it has no aura...
Well could be a dummy.....dummies don't have aura.
And in my humble opinion, there're so much more important things to discuss in this hoax and it is such a waste of time to discuss if Murray is MJ in disguise .[/b]
@purelove very good point abt more important things than disguise... it's all for L.O.V.E.... :)
i personally dont think that CM is MJ. but havent given it thought before as i am consumed in other things atm, such as adding numbers and digesting court case info...
for those who think CM is MJ, can i ask, what abt the pics the press have of murray at beach in the water- do you think he is in a body suit / make up, there too? just curious.
Ps. Let it go PureLove.
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:QuoteThis is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
...
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
Crosspost from the odd things thread because I think it's relevant here.
Badkolo said a long time ago that the FBI Sting Operation that TS talks about is eerily reminiscent of the story line in Moonwalker, what with a bunch of bad guys (mafia-types) out to get MJ and him helping the FBI in a sting operation)...
here's an evidence pic from Fleak's testimony yesterday:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)
Look at the DVD cover. The graphic was familiar to me so I tried to identify it. It's similar, very, to the TII cover but it's not quite the same. Turns out it's the Moonwalker image... but again, not quite the same. The Moonwalker graphic PRE-6/25/09 was a little bit bent over... but... POST-6/25/09 a commemorative copy of Moonwalker was released, "in memory of MJ", and the BACK cover art was/is identical to the graphic you see on this DVD in the evidence pic. Look and compare for yourself:
(http://www.dvd-covers.org/d/62896-2/Twentieth_Century_Fox_Template.jpg)
Again, the graphic was changed post-6/25/09. Here's the Moonwalker graphic pre-6/25/09:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_P39BgEGRnN8/S_EYGcs-aLI/AAAAAAAAAQI/3kvMjpKQn74/s1600/Michael_Jackson_Moonwalker-%5Bcdcovers_cc%5D-front.jpg)
or other similar styles.... but none of the styles include a nearly upright MJ pose graphic. All are slightly bent, identical to this one ^^. ONLY post-6/25/09, on the BACK of the commemorative copy is the upright graphic as seen on the FRONT of the DVD cover as seen in the evidence pic found.
Here is the Google image search address, see for yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719 (http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719)
(Or just Google Image search "michael jackson moonwalker dvd cover" no parentheses needed.)
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
DEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT……………
for those who think CM is MJ, can i ask, what abt the pics the press have of murray at beach in the water- do you think he is in a body suit / make up, there too? just curious.
About the whole 'could Murray be Michael' thing...yes, it does seem like that would be difficult to pull off.
As for the physical theory...the 'holes' I can't seem to reconcile are Murray's height, his arms (in pics where he's wearing a T-shirt), and now thanks to the pedicure...his bare legs (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_lol.gif)
I specifically mentioned why I DON'T think Murray could be Mike...which included his height, his arms and his legs.
We've seen his height both in pics and in video. I don't know much about photography or special effects...but I'm sure his height (and perhaps even arms and legs) could be 'altered' in pics if someone wanted to. But live video? Wouldn't that be harder to do?
Murray could very well NOT be Mike...logically, that does make more sense. But that 'sense' comes from the limited knowledge we have in what is possible in technology. Mike was all about innovation and finding ways to achieve the impossible...and if anyone did find a way to APPEAR dead but remain right in FRONT of our faces for 2+ years...it would be Mike.
And, as bec said, he may just end up being Murray for a day at some pivitol point in the trial. Or as someone else suggested (sorry can't remember who...maybe Sarahli?)...there could be two Murray's...one that goes out in public and the one we see in court (hmmm...a body double....why does that sound familiar? (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_e_wink.gif) )
Crosspost from the odd things thread because I think it's relevant here.
Badkolo said a long time ago that the FBI Sting Operation that TS talks about is eerily reminiscent of the story line in Moonwalker, what with a bunch of bad guys (mafia-types) out to get MJ and him helping the FBI in a sting operation)...
here's an evidence pic from Fleak's testimony yesterday:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)
Look at the DVD cover. The graphic was familiar to me so I tried to identify it. It's similar, very, to the TII cover but it's not quite the same. Turns out it's the Moonwalker image... but again, not quite the same. The Moonwalker graphic PRE-6/25/09 was a little bit bent over... but... POST-6/25/09 a commemorative copy of Moonwalker was released, "in memory of MJ", and the BACK cover art was/is identical to the graphic you see on this DVD in the evidence pic. Look and compare for yourself:
(http://www.dvd-covers.org/d/62896-2/Twentieth_Century_Fox_Template.jpg)
Again, the graphic was changed post-6/25/09. Here's the Moonwalker graphic pre-6/25/09:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_P39BgEGRnN8/S_EYGcs-aLI/AAAAAAAAAQI/3kvMjpKQn74/s1600/Michael_Jackson_Moonwalker-%5Bcdcovers_cc%5D-front.jpg)
or other similar styles.... but none of the styles include a nearly upright MJ pose graphic. All are slightly bent, identical to this one ^^. ONLY post-6/25/09, on the BACK of the commemorative copy is the upright graphic as seen on the FRONT of the DVD cover as seen in the evidence pic found.
Here is the Google image search address, see for yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719 (http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719)
(Or just Google Image search "michael jackson moonwalker dvd cover" no parentheses needed.)
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
the set of pictures they just showed to Fleak , the DVD is UNDER a book...so who moved the book to expose the dvd?
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
the set of pictures they just showed to Fleak , the DVD is UNDER a book...so who moved the book to expose the dvd?
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
WTF?? I'm wondering to why things were moved. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it's normal for things to be moved as long as it is photographed before hand? I don't know? /pull hair/
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
the set of pictures they just showed to Fleak , the DVD is UNDER a book...so who moved the book to expose the dvd?
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
Just want to say something about Murray's 'interview' played in court just now. I was rivetted and it got to me a bit I have to say, and I didn't feel the lightheartedness that I saw when I looked in on chat. For a while he had me wondering again, then the inconsistencies started and differences between his version of events and that of other witnesses made me feel better.
Then I listened to 'Whatever Happens', and I'm ok now! Guess we've just had one of the 'sad bits' in this production.
I, along with other members, have even gone beyond the 'basic' Murray is Mike theory...and thought of other possible scenarios that could be taking place or that could potentially take place at some future time.
QuoteAnd, as bec said, he may just end up being Murray for a day at some pivitol point in the trial. Or as someone else suggested (sorry can't remember who...maybe Sarahli?)...there could be two Murray's...one that goes out in public and the one we see in court (hmmm...a body double....why does that sound familiar? (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_e_wink.gif) )
Ps. If Murray is ever Michael in disguise it would almost certainly be Dave Dave style.
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:QuoteThis is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Each time a pic is shown i try to "find out" some image or reflection from the mirror (bedroom)...but can´t see a thing.I completely agree with everything you've said in your post. With what I have highlighted: /bravo/ so true! Completely slipped my mind. Good catch!!!! From the photos we've seen of the house (the front door that is) it doesn't look like there are any personal affects there. [/b][/color]
Also, the room has just posters or images of kids and babies, but i have not seen a personal touch in decoration. In the Bashir tapes we could see that Michael, even when being at the hotel, had his mannequins with him to feel "with company-at home"Was Michael living there on the 1st place?
The room and wc looked pretty messy...either Michael is a destroyer and his service does not clean after him or that home was robbed or raided and pics where taken after the incident.
Regarding the pics...i find odd to see a huge mess everywhere and just aligned and in perfect order and display 3 empty bottles of pills, like if someone put them there just for the sake of it to take the picture. Rings any 2004-5 bells anyone?
in addition to my previous comment, just want to add that whilst i agree that it is possible that MJ could / would or possibly has done a cameo appearance in full CM makeup - i dont think any of pics we see of CM in public such as at beach, pedicure, exercising etc, are MJ. i just think that, that would pose too much of an assassination / security risk to MJ, from a crazy non believer fan who wanted revenge / justice.
all hyperthetical speculation.
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Off to youtube to watch Mike perform his magic...at this very moment, he's about the only one that can improve my 'state of mind'. And he will....he always does.:lol: Yep that's what I do for a pleasurable pick-me-upper every few days these last 2 years!
I thought it was a pic of paris...I was thinking Elvis, Paris and lastly Prince!
Yes - but what if all those pics of Murray on the beach, at the pool etc etc were actually taken a year before MJ "died" for them to have on hand to publish at a certain time down the track after the "death".
No-one would take any notice of him then. He would have been just a regular dude on a beach
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Hey Family....just wanted to share something I just watched on tv. My Hubby watches "Rob & Big" on MTV2 and the episode that was on was one of Rob dressing up as a fat man. Now if anyone knows who Rob Dyrdek is, he is a small guy....they put a fat face mask on him along with a fat suit. Then they took this very short man and put prosthetic leg lifts on him. They looked just like prosthetic legs, but were like stilts. He went from about 5'5 -5'6 (just guessing because he is short) to almost a 7 foot tall heavy man....and no one knew it was him. It showed him walking and you would not know he was not that tall if you didn't know any better. My point is, I do believe that anything is possible when it comes to Michael, and watching this show just confirmed in me that it is possible. I'm not saying that Michael is Murray everyday...but I think it's possible that Michael could be CM at times. Here's the video...This is the only copy I could find on youtube and it's not the greatest sorry for that. OK...I can not seem to figure out how to post this video so if anyone could help me out I would really appreciate it! Thanks bearhug
Here's the link..... http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHLLoQCqK8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Thank you so much Forst for sharing this info. I don't know what kinds of procedures are applied in a crime scene and in a death scene. Pls correct me if I got it wrong. Does this mean that they didn't consider MJ's "death" as a crime at that time and that was the reason why they got it like a random death investigation and didn't use any gloves and changed the places of the objects?
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Thank you so much Forst for sharing this info. I don't know what kinds of procedures are applied in a crime scene and in a death scene. Pls correct me if I got it wrong. Does this mean that they didn't consider MJ's "death" as a crime at that time and that was the reason why they got it like a random death investigation and didn't use any gloves and changed the places of the objects?
I am not sure what kind of procedures coroner uses to perform their duties and what are their standards of diligence. I do not know also how they interact with LAPD in case of investigation. Fleak confirmed that at that initial stage her investigation was a death investigation by coroner's office.
My common sense tells me that regardless of what kind of investigation you perform, gloves should be "must be", but that's only my way of looking at it.
Yes, that is what I believe too. But if using gloves is a must, then why didn't Ed ask her why they didn't use any gloves? Or did he and I missed it? suspicious// She admitted that the investigation wasn't perfect but she also added any investigations are perfect. Did she say it because they didn't use the gloves OR for changing the places of the materials? Or both?
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:QuoteThis is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Grace, thank you so much for posting this.
Dr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
Hello everyone! I am watching trial everyday, but unfortunately i don't have enough time to spend on the forum. I am moving to a new house, which is by the way villa #7 and i'm moving there tomorrow on October 9th, isn't it just perfect!!! ;D TS you are more than welcome to visit :lol:
The trial is great and the more i watch it, the more i see how CM reflects Michael in 2005. Of course he is an innocent black man, who is being bashed by the media. And also look how there are people coming into the court saying how great and kind CM is. That he is a wonderful doctor. And we also have others, someone like Alberto Alvarez saying that CM asked him if he knew how to do a CPR. So they are suggesting that CM was NOT a good doctor and it makes some people think if he is a real doctor after all. Which is exactly what happened to Michael in 2005. We had his supporters who were coming to the court and saying that Michael had done nothing bad to a child and that he is a wonderful loving person. And we also had others, who were claiming that Michael did those horrible things to a "child" (the guy was 13 years old, so it's hard for me to call him a child).
You guys are just great, all the clues you found in the court are great: the seal, the timing of fire alarm going off ect. /bravo/
I just wanted to upload a picture of another elephant in the courtroom. Sorry if it's been already posted
Also, did you see the pictures of Michael's bedroom? Man is it messy?! :lol: I wonder if it has some meaning to the hoax or it's just showing us that Michael is a real man?
The fire place and TV is on, who did it. If Michael was supposedly in another room the whole night and no one else was ever allowed into his room. The coroners got chilly and bored???
About the state of the room this is what Murray said in the police interview:QuoteDr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
About the state of the room this is what Murray said in the police interview:QuoteDr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
I'm also having a hard time believing that Michael actually lived in that house ???/
@PureLove, i think that we were told that the room was warm and we thought it was needed to keep the corpse warm. I think that you made a little mistake ;)).
About the state of the room this is what Murray said in the police interview:QuoteDr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
I'm also having a hard time believing that Michael actually lived in that house ???/
@PureLove, i think that we were told that the room was warm and we thought it was needed to keep the corpse warm. I think that you made a little mistake ;)).
Ohh yeahhh. That's right. So that explains why the fire place was on. :mrgreen: But the tv is weird still. Maybe the detectives wanted to watch some CSI series to learn what to do in an investigation place. :lol:
Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
They mentioned in court it was a "gas" fireplace, but I had pointed out earlier in this thread that there is NO way it was a gas fireplace...he has a fireplace tool set next to the fireplace and you would only need that if it was a wood burning fireplace.
Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
They mentioned in court it was a "gas" fireplace, but I had pointed out earlier in this thread that there is NO way it was a gas fireplace...he has a fireplace tool set next to the fireplace and you would only need that if it was a wood burning fireplace.
Hey Family....just wanted to share something I just watched on tv. My Hubby watches "Rob & Big" on MTV2 and the episode that was on was one of Rob dressing up as a fat man. Now if anyone knows who Rob Dyrdek is, he is a small guy....they put a fat face mask on him along with a fat suit. Then they took this very short man and put prosthetic leg lifts on him. They looked just like prosthetic legs, but were like stilts. He went from about 5'5 -5'6 (just guessing because he is short) to almost a 7 foot tall heavy man....and no one knew it was him. It showed him walking and you would not know he was not that tall if you didn't know any better. My point is, I do believe that anything is possible when it comes to Michael, and watching this show just confirmed in me that it is possible. I'm not saying that Michael is Murray everyday...but I think it's possible that Michael could be CM at times. Here's the video...This is the only copy I could find on youtube and it's not the greatest sorry for that. OK...I can not seem to figure out how to post this video so if anyone could help me out I would really appreciate it! Thanks bearhug
Here's the link..... http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8 (http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHLLoQCqK8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Keep the fire burnin'
Let it keep us warm.
The world will keep on turnin' -
Let it turn you on.
Let us not stop learnin'
We can help one another be strong
Let us never lose our yearnin'
To keep the fire burnin' all night long.
You've been changing so much
I'm not sure you're in touch with what's real.
You just come and you go
Never letting me know how you feel.
And I'm livin' here in doubt
There's so much to talk about
I know that we can work it out.
We can - keep the fire burnin'
. . .
We've been thru this enough
It gets rough but there's nowhere to run
This is where we belong.
We are stronq we can never give up
Or we wanted to we could
But we've always understood
To keep knockin' for the good.
Oh
keep the fire burnin'
. . .
Keep the fire burin'
. . .
http://www.elyrics.net/read/r/reo-speedwagon-lyrics/keep-the-fire-burnin_-lyrics.html@Mish...I just logged in to the forum to post a thought that came to my mind while doing my french manicure :lol: and the thought was...."the fire place is burning and documents are all over the place=possible destroying documents?":lol: It has, hasn't it! Great minds think alike. I love it...Even if for some reason we are wrong on our thinking, at least we can say we thought of it, examined it, and debunked it, but we're not leaving any stone unturned or ruling anything out without properly doing so. ;)
this synchronicity has happened often lately :lol:
At this point who's to say. We haven't been privileged enough for specifics. Did Murray mention that he or Michael watched a video the night of the 24th? I wonder what was playing?
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
Sorry (because I don't know) but was this box set before or after 2009?
Those photos remind me of the photos the cops took when they raided Neverland. There was stuff everywhere, no sense of order. I don't know if that was the cops doing or what.
On these pictures we can see that the fist picture was taken on June 25th and all the other ones on June 26th. On 26th the black case appeared on the tub and no one seems to know who's it is. Investigator Elissa Fleak doesn't know how it got there. Detective Smith also doesn't know who's it is and how it got there. Any ideas? ;D
Investigator moved bags around and some vials too /overreacting/
I found the answer! Dirty cops destroyed Michael's room at Neverland. Start at 4:35
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSL1YMC414&feature=related[/youtube]
Did they do the same this time??? :evil:
Look what the bathroom was supposed to look like.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
I found the answer! Dirty cops destroyed Michael's room at Neverland. Start at 4:35
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSL1YMC414&feature=related[/youtube]
Did they do the same this time??? :evil:
Look what the bathroom was supposed to look like.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
Murray managed to renegotiate the terms of his mortgage, but the house was auctioned off for just £500,000 ($777,000) earlier this year.
Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
Thank you for the articles! The Joel Sandler's story was so funny, poor guy, he didn't even talk, he explained everything to a hit man through cards which he later destroyed, but he still got cought! :lol: And the story about a wife who wanted to kill her husband really deserves a movie to be shot about it.
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
I agree with a lot bec, but as I told you on Skype: the FBI is involved, so there has to be a sting. I don't think the FBI would be involved if it was just a movie. But who is the target or are the targets?
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php) (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
I agree with a lot bec, but as I told you on Skype: the FBI is involved, so there has to be a sting. I don't think the FBI would be involved if it was just a movie. But who is the target or are the targets?
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php) (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
souza the video you provided it is not with Richelle Cooper it is with aMr. Johnson.. IS that the person you are refuring too?
She has a young voice. I'm just going to say it: could it be Paris? Is this what the acting classes were for? suspicious//
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
Thos kinds of stings, the small time murder for hire, are small time because they aren't dealing with professionals. They are dealing with amateurs who would be fooled by a "death" photo and be induced to remit payment or in another way expose themselves upon receipt of proof of death.
Professionals at this game, ie the mafia, are not inclined to be satisfied with and therefore fooled by a "death" pic for the obvious reason that they are easy to fake. There's not even any blood or dismemberment in these pics (ambu and gurney). Professionals want body parts to prove death, not pics.
So the question remains, who would be inclined to expose themselves by changing their behavior by the act of MJ being dead... and especially being dead in this way. The only answer I can come up with to satisfy the logic parameters of this situation is the media... and the fans.
In addition, if the FBI thought the Prosecutors and DA were so corrupt in the 2005 trial against MJ, they don't NEED to do a sting operation... there IS PROOF ALREADY on the record in regards to their behavior in trial and handling evidence.
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
Back=I'm BACK
Front=I'm [right in] FRONT [of you]
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.This is how you operate and I figured your tactics out a long time ago. It probably works for those who are weak minded but that is not me. I come from a criminal background and have played mind games all my life. None of what I wrote is fantastical and there is no assuming necessary.
She has a young voice. I'm just going to say it: could it be Paris? Is this what the acting classes were for? suspicious//
Possible, but that's a lot of medical jargon to learn and a huge responsibility for someone so young, smart as she is.
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1797;image)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1798;image)
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
Thos kinds of stings, the small time murder for hire, are small time because they aren't dealing with professionals. They are dealing with amateurs who would be fooled by a "death" photo and be induced to remit payment or in another way expose themselves upon receipt of proof of death.
Professionals at this game, ie the mafia, are not inclined to be satisfied with and therefore fooled by a "death" pic for the obvious reason that they are easy to fake. There's not even any blood or dismemberment in these pics (ambu and gurney). Professionals want body parts to prove death, not pics.
So the question remains, who would be inclined to expose themselves by changing their behavior by the act of MJ being dead... and especially being dead in this way. The only answer I can come up with to satisfy the logic parameters of this situation is the media... and the fans.
In addition, if the FBI thought the Prosecutors and DA were so corrupt in the 2005 trial against MJ, they don't NEED to do a sting operation... there IS PROOF ALREADY on the record in regards to their behavior in trial and handling evidence.
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
Back=I'm BACK
Front=I'm [right in] FRONT [of you]
bec-The funny thing is you totally didn't get my point when I was talking about a proof of death pic. I was not referring to the articles and the proof of death pic being used in those cases. I AM saying that MJ's proof of death pic is for ALL of the people who wanted him dead and you are wrong when it comes to Mafia not falling for a pic. I am a true crime junkie and have been for a long time. I have read and watched any and everything mob influenced. The idea of a proof of death pic actually came from a scene in which a mobster had a hit on him and he needed to fake his death. There was police/FBI help and a proof of death pic was taken and then shown to the mobster who wanted the guy dead.
Here is something else that I do not do, you seem to resort to alot and that is personal attacks.QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.This is how you operate and I figured your tactics out a long time ago. It probably works for those who are weak minded but that is not me. I come from a criminal background and have played mind games all my life. None of what I wrote is fantastical and there is no assuming necessary.
IF you notice in my comment I did not identify the court system or DA'S office by county. REASON: because it ALL is under scrutiny. Yes the corruption of Sneddon and company is on the record but it didn't get told or exposed UNTIL MJ died and the FBI released the files proving that. The exposing of the most corrupt city LA would most certainly be a high priority of MJ's and not random at all. MJ's philosophy is justice, helping those in need, holding a mirror up to bad behavior, speaking up for those who can not speak for themselves, etc. The other thing is you really underestimate the good in people in the FBI and them wanting to help MJ expose ALL forms of evil.
Another thing you completely crush is the Elvis connections. Elvis is very much a part of this hoax and what he did with the FBI. I do not agree that MJ is small potatoes to the FBI and you need to do more research before you make an assumptious statement that the FBI would not go to great lengths of faking a trial to catch a criminal. I am not even going to respond to the entrapment issue as stated by you because it was clearly not understood by you when it has been explained more than once what that means. The funny thing here is you are the one doing more of the fantasy work in your theory but like to point fingers on me to deflect your inaccuracies.
You also interject alot of assumptions into what I write and add your own comments onto mine as IF that is what I was saying. I have never had a problem of clearing up any misunderstandings of what I mean.
My comment and yours are opinions only and no proof is provided but in the end the proof will come when this is over. I also find it very funny when those who gave FRONT such a hard time from the beginning now quote him and kiss his ass like it is golden. WTF??
Souza-The things I added here should clear up what I meant in my other comment. I do not think this is being isolated to the DA and court system in SB or LA. I did understand what you were saying in regards to us seeing what happened to MJ in 2005 trial being told to us through this trial. I agree and have thought so for a long time.
I agree with a lot bec, but as I told you on Skype: the FBI is involved, so there has to be a sting. I don't think the FBI would be involved if it was just a movie. But who is the target or are the targets?
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php) (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
souza the video you provided it is not with Richelle Cooper it is with aMr. Johnson.. IS that the person you are refuring too?
I did say: scroll down. There are more videos.
In defense of bec, she always talks like that
QuoteIn defense of bec, she always talks like that
Talks like what? confused/
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Because I'm talking about the THEORY, Im_convinced, not about YOU. Why you are equating your personal SELF with the THEORY I do not understand.Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Because I'm talking about the THEORY, Im_convinced, not about YOU. Why you are equating your personal SELF with the THEORY I do not understand.Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Draw a line of separation, Im_convinced. YOU do not equate the Sting THEORY.
@Im_convinced, in addition to my last post I have to say that I am finding it increasingly difficult to debate this subject with you. You seem to be taking my challenges to the Sting Court theory as challenges aimed at yourself. You seem to be personifying the theory which makes it difficult to have a debate on the subject without your feelings being hurt in the process.
The Hoax Court theory stands at this juncture, so I feel confident that I can walk away from direct debates as we were invited to perform without feeling that I haven't given it my due diligence.
I will, however, continue to participate in the thread as we go forward with the information and as events progress.
As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field.That comment clearly says that I keep personal attacks out of my debate process which includes how I actually feel personally about a comment directed at me. You can try to say it however you want to but I am not randomly spouting off my observations of the last 20 months of behavior. I am a people watcher by nature and believe this I have been paying attention. You would not be doing me any favors by feeling it difficult to debate me for fear of hurting my feelings.
If there is no real body, almost all the witnesses must be in the hoax, and this is hard to believe.
But if it has to be a real body that could fool the ones who saw it, who's body could it be? It must look like MJ, at least a little. And THIS is again hard to believe.
Nothing makes sense to me about the body....well except that the body was Michael's.
May I just say I wish TS would come and start a new thread - I'm sick of wading through Bec and Im_convinced's squabbling. Please let it go guys - you're both doing a great job with your hoax v sting theories, but your public arguing is tiresome and downgrades your excellent ideas. Please do it in private where it won't get in the way of other members reading your relevant on-topic thoughts.
I know it's a hoax and the trial is a movie. Conrad is an actor but do you think he could be a double agent. That means he could be secretly doing things for the illuminati or freemasons and not think that anyone would find out. But maybe they did and are setting him up ????? Maybe he is completely innocent ????? I guess we will find out soon. Maybe the whole trial is just a movie to teach us about the media. Maybe some people will be set up such as the drug companies ????At least a year ago there was discussion of Murray being a Mason and part of a certain lodge. There were even pictures put up, and then there was an official letter sent from the masonic headquarters (I think), stating that CM has never been a member of any lodge except some fake lodge. If you wish I can look it up, but even the fact that fake pictures of CM with masonic vestments on shows there is seriously something odd going on with him, not to mention his empty clinic and patients that he hugs and kisses and allows their medical history to be posted online.
because there is not only a mess, but THERE IS A FIRE BURNING.Was it ever figured out what was the reason for the flood of water that almost ruined the house only days after June 25, where pics showed water even pouring from wall outlets and over the garage doors etc.? Did this fire seen in this fireplace keep on burning and cause all the ceiling water sprinklers to come on? The owners of the house were said to be wanting damages to be paid by MJ's estate. Still a mystery to me.
End of June, right, we need a fire in L.A.? It's freezingly cold when everybody has left the house except those cleaning staff forgetting about the water taps (or fire hoses), right?
So it's safe to say that there is no fire needed when everybody has moved out from a "crime scene" house and it's also safe to say that at the moment the picture was taken after everybody had moved out of a "crime scene" house, the fire did neither have to warm up the room nor a freezing patient nor a coroner's or LAPD photographer or paparazzi. Right?
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.Great post! I agree, that sums up the FBI involvement with this hoax. When I saw a docu on TV about 911 from the official standpoint, it was the FBI shown trying to round up the supposed Arab terrorists, that confirms to me that your statement about them not being interested in toppling the Illuminati is true. They are just an arm of the USrael government, and Elvis just might be one of the few good men in the FBI helping out MJ. But this whole situation of FBI, Elvis, court, sting --is very murky and unclear to me. I'm just relaxing because Front said MJ was fully in control and I believe that's true!
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
If there is no real body, almost all the witnesses must be in the hoax, and this is hard to believe.
But if it has to be a real body that could fool the ones who saw it, who's body could it be? It must look like MJ, at least a little. And THIS is again hard to believe.
Nothing makes sense to me about the body....well except that the body was Michael's.
No it's not. Those who allegedly saw the body were his security guards and personal assistent, EMT's/doctors/coroner (officials) and family. That's it. FBI is involved so officials involved is not unbelievable. The guards and PA most likely signed a confidentiality agreement and family is family. So why a real body?
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
mj_bad/Because I'm talking about the THEORY, Im_convinced, not about YOU. Why you are equating your personal SELF with the THEORY I do not understand.Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Draw a line of separation, Im_convinced. YOU do not equate the Sting THEORY.
Sure if you put it that way but IF I didn't believe what I was saying then why would I even defend the theory? So for me it is personal because it is what I believe and it is my theory.
Souza-I am gonna answer you here in bec's post. I can not explain the things you asked. I do believe it is odd for a DA to handle evidence in court with no gloves and then put them on only during some because the stuff he was touching was medical waste. I think there is alot of odd things going on and until this is over honestly I do not think all of it will be so obvious with an answer. After I watched the EMT's testify I sway more to they are involved in the hoax. The one thing I noticed is during all the testimony of those who were in the room helping to move the body some of the people who were in the room at the same time never mentioned the other one during testimony. Alvarez never talked about Faheem and Faheem never mentioned Alvarez. Just one example.
Off topic-Yesterday my daughter and I went to the movies and watched Smurfs- lolol/
We like the cat the most. :mrgreen:
no trial today?
OMG... 45 pages! There were 6 the last time I checked in. lolol/ I may not have been here physically but I was still on the job. My Mother was in from out of State. She always liked Michael but when all the surgery/skin BS came out she didn't know what to think so we spent a lot of time on my YT channel covering the basics of Lupus, Vitiligo, the man's Faith, hospital visits, the trial, the FBI files, & interviews. There was a lot of sighing...wows...and "I miss judged the man." So you see; all was well. After a few video clips on YT it was on to the Dangerous concert via DVD! She couldn't get enough...on to my other DVD's & videos. /woohoo/ /font] /bravo/
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1797;image)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1798;image)
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
@Im_convinced
You have the most difficult theory to prove but really you're doing a great job. /bravo/
I was thinking about something in regards to the Sting court....what if the Hoax court is there to serve the purpose of demonstrating that in 2005 it was okay for people in the judicial system to accept fake evidences, false testimonies, etc? It would put the sting on another level/perspective but it is still there and both are possible, Hoax and Sting together....just a thought.
Dr. Murray: It was now very important to console Mrs. Jackson, the mother of Michael. I never met her before. But when she came into the hospital, the first thing was how do you break the new to her. I was also told that she had a heart condition. So i had asked them to be very, very careful in giving information to her. Was there, any other member present at the time? No. She was the one there. His father was either in another state, was clearly not close. And i can't tell about the other siblings.
Dr.Murray: So i went back into the large room, and i asked Mrs.Jackson if she had a desire to see him. And she said NO.
I was speaking to the press release and the lawyer who was preparing the statement for Jermaine to give. I then after doing that, i thout it was reasonable. They don't want to change anything. I mean it was legal. Jermaine wanted to change the fact that they had asked the fans to respect their privacy. And he said, "That won't be a very good idea because the fans are fans. Maybe we should ask the media to respect our privacy."So he added - he got rid of "fans" and added "media" for privacy."
Det. Smith: was it kind of chronic with him?
Dr. Murray: What? Det. Smith: The dehydration and ...
Dr. Murray: He don't drink. He don't drink and eat. he says all his life his mother's had to force him to eat as a child. So he just don't like to eat foods. And the foods that he eats, when he eats, is mostly chicken and rice.
Det. Smith: What about cigarettes? Dr. Murray: I don't know him to smoke. you found cigarettes? Det. Smith: Empty packs. Dr. Murray: Really? Det. Smith: In the same suitcase that this literally was raunchy old - you couldn't even telll it was marijuana. It fact, we thought it was initially tar heroin. We had it analyzed, and it was just decomposed basically marijuana. The T.H.C was present. Nonetheless, there was two empty packs of cigarettes in there. I know his family's definitely against that.
Dr. Murray: WOW. But at the same time, you know, no one went into that room. He wouldn't let anyone in. But he used excessive cologne. And i never understood how he sprayed that on all the time. I mean he sat and he just keep spraying. And it could have been to dismiss any odor. I don't know.
OMG... 45 pages! There were 6 the last time I checked in. lolol/ I may not have been here physically but I was still on the job. My Mother was in from out of State. She always liked Michael but when all the surgery/skin BS came out she didn't know what to think so we spent a lot of time on my YT channel covering the basics of Lupus, Vitiligo, the man's Faith, hospital visits, the trial, the FBI files, & interviews. There was a lot of sighing...wows...and "I miss judged the man." So you see; all was well. After a few video clips on YT it was on to the Dangerous concert via DVD! She couldn't get enough...on to my other DVD's & videos. /woohoo/ /font] /bravo/
This is so great MsTrinity :) . My mother never judged MJ and she always thought that he is a great artist and wonderful person, but was never really into his music, the only song she loved was "Earth song". But when i took her to see "TII" when it just came out, she couldn't stop smiling during the movie. She fell in LOVE with him :lol: . Now she is also a believer, she says "Only Michael Jackson could fake his own death in front of the whole World".bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1797;image)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1798;image)
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
The first thing came to my mind when i saw this picture in the bathroom was "Michael" album cover too. And i also think that this is a great clue. The fist single we heard from "Michael" was "Breaking news": TS predicted it, the melody we heard from opera "The Tale of Tsar Saltan", MJ sings about his own obituary etc. etc.
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
The first thing came to my mind when i saw this picture in the bathroom was "Michael" album cover too. And i also think that this is a great clue. The fist single we heard from "Michael" was "Breaking news": TS predicted it, the melody we heard from opera "The Tale of Tsar Saltan", MJ sings about his own obituary etc. etc.
Thanks Kristina bearhug We had a great time. She said "Now I see why you loved so much". She's not a beLIEver, and def. thinks Murray is guilty, but I did bring some inconsistencies to her attention... like the ambo pic, gurney pic, toxicology & Seal, among others. But we'll let that fly for now; Rome wasn't built in a day and I wanted her to get to know the man, not just the Icon.
Great catch on the DVD set in the bathroom. First thing I thought of too was the Michael Album.
no trial today?
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
Dr. Thao Nguyen,.. is lying,... she declare that Murray had no notion of time, did not know when he had administered propofol or when Michael had stopped breathing. What is the reason? Murray told him that he had no clock! :lol: /judge/
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J9ukVpAlrcQ/TpIkhkPsBdI/AAAAAAAACLQ/vzEA7keOO_s/s1600/thao_nguyen_conrad_murray_trial_ll_111003_wg.jpg) (http://msnanimal.cl/emoticons/gestos_y_guinos_3d/emoticon_3d_guinos_gestos_3d_animado_msnanimal_com-60.gif)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iuz8hKRo1gc/TpIp1HhXk_I/AAAAAAAACLU/786ktN5-CSg/s1600/murray+ucla.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg)
Post my theories? And risk being slaughtered by mature adults? You've got to be kidding. I get enough of that in my 'real life'. lolol/:lol: :lol:
Dr. Thao Nguyen,.. is lying,... she declare that Murray had no notion of time, did not know when he had administered propofol or when Michael had stopped breathing. What is the reason? Murray told him that he had no clock! :lol: /judge/
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J9ukVpAlrcQ/TpIkhkPsBdI/AAAAAAAACLQ/vzEA7keOO_s/s1600/thao_nguyen_conrad_murray_trial_ll_111003_wg.jpg) (http://msnanimal.cl/emoticons/gestos_y_guinos_3d/emoticon_3d_guinos_gestos_3d_animado_msnanimal_com-60.gif)
Lol. good eyes paula!
also didnt CM have not one but two phones??? um and are we supposed to believe they both dont have "time function" on them...
smell the BS!
also this is off topic. but i love how one of the paramedics claims he didnt recognise MJ.... Mj is one of if not the most well recognised face in the world... so if your working on a patient, do you not look at the face even once, for responces, etc.... and if your a paramedic and you get called out to a VIP patient, which i believe there was mention of, do you not even then look at the face...
lol the comment of he didnt recognise mj is hilarious, mjs face is all over the news, on print, on net, it has been drawn, photographed, video taped, cartoonised, etc etc etc. what an absurd statement...
just sharing... i have no one in my personal life to talk about this stuff with....
L.O.V.E
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iuz8hKRo1gc/TpIp1HhXk_I/AAAAAAAACLU/786ktN5-CSg/s1600/murray+ucla.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg) <---------------------- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great catch, Paula!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg) <---------------------- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great catch, Paula!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Murray says: "You think I killed Michael? MY ASS!"
OR
Murray says: "You took the pics of my nails getting pedicures, now take a pic of my hot ass fartin'!"
:lol:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg) <---------------------- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great catch, Paula!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Murray says: "You think I killed Michael? MY ASS!"
OR
Murray says: "You took the pics of my nails getting pedicures, now take a pic of my hot ass fartin'!"
:lol:
Oh my GOD Purelove, you're post is HILARIOUS!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:'( + lolol/ + /toldya/
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Watch the videos done by Jackieblue64 on Youtube and also SerenityxDreams and Opentolife. If you watch these you will realize there are many layers to this hoax. First, Michael had to change his image and possibly get rid of some of the "evil" around him. I am sure he had to protect himself and his family and get his finances in order. But that is not the ultimate goal. I think the final goal is to help "wake up the world" so we have a chance to "heal the world" in order to get through 2012. He is trying to wake people up so they will seek the truth about what is really going on in this world so we can fix it before it is too late. "The world is sick, like a fever", "We only have four years to get it right" "Before it is too late". We have to bring love back into the world. It is important". Think about the illuminati, secret societies, government corruption, corporate greed, wars, starvation, nuclear weapons, oil spills, pollution, chemtrails, germ warfare, lies, corrupt media, mind control. We don't even know the true history or science including what is true about Uf0's etc. We are being manipulated. I think he is working with god to help save the planet. The hoax is a genius way to "Wake People Up", To help the world. In other words "help people stop their propofol drip" and "Wake Up".
moonwalk_/ mj_dance/ michael-jackson/
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Now, I am confused. You are agree that there is no sting operation and Michael "died" to clean his name? That is all hoax about? Because I don't think so, I don't believe Michael would "die" and cause his fans (non believers) emotional harm to make morons to think independently and get him known.
Anyone awake?!?!: A Jackson guest will be on Jane Valdez in a minute: The guest is bringing photos of MJ and telling what he was like as a child. I think its Toya! They showed a short clip of her talking to news crew and wearing the upside downn triangle outfit!
Remember this :?:
" Never believe what you hear and only believe half of what you see" !Micheal Jackson !
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GDrPB9Hkn70/TotVTsK1alI/AAAAAAAACaw/qnisUd-fzrQ/s1600/tumba.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wqi71XMIJ7A/TooxnapNJlI/AAAAAAAACHw/nuZRGYMHe5c/s1600/micheal+jackson.png)
Anyone awake?!?!: A Jackson guest will be on Jane Valdez in a minute: The guest is bringing photos of MJ and telling what he was like as a child. I think its Toya! They showed a short clip of her talking to news crew and wearing the upside downn triangle outfit!
Yes...........how it was when he was a CHILD.....Why this is not a SURPRIZE for me,I ask,lol lolol/ :shock: :lol: ?????? Yes Latoya, we are GOING BACK,BACKwards when Michael was still a baby-child :-* .He is a baby from 50 ,al the way BACK to 0 years old !!!!NICE :lol: .Moon please tell us when you have time what the show what about,ok??????LOVE you!!
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22800000/Baby-Michael-Jackson-with-Mother-Katherine-Jackson-_____-3-prince-michael-jackson-22837065-314-363.jpg)
(http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11300000/MJ-as-a-baby-michael-jackson-11349865-376-443.jpg)
What day does the trial end?
What day does the trial end?
V: Tell me do you know what day is it EVEy???
EVEy: November the 4-th.
V:Not anymore........ :mrgreen: 8-)
What day does the trial end?
Remember this :?:
" Never believe what you hear and only believe half of what you see" !Micheal Jackson !
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GDrPB9Hkn70/TotVTsK1alI/AAAAAAAACaw/qnisUd-fzrQ/s1600/tumba.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wqi71XMIJ7A/TooxnapNJlI/AAAAAAAACHw/nuZRGYMHe5c/s1600/micheal+jackson.png)
Yes, I remember that graffiti outside the mausoleum and the name being misspelled makes a LOT of sense now!! LOL, it only took well over a year to make that connection.
There was also this outside the mausoleum. Hidden messages!
(http://cdn.photos.tmz.com/gallery_images/images/2010/07/0712_mj_masoleum_1_full.jpg)
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Now, I am confused. You are agree that there is no sting operation and Michael "died" to clean his name? That is all hoax about? Because I don't think so, I don't believe Michael would "die" and cause his fans (non believers) emotional harm to make morons to think independently and get him known.
You may be right, but I guess I just want to believe in a sting court because of what happened to Michael in 2005. I guess what it all boils down to is that I want so desperately for Sneddon to be exposed. I want the team who worked with both Jordie Chandler's family and Gavin Arvizo's family to be exposed. I want Judge Melville to be checked. I want Dr. Arnold Klein to be checked. I want these people brought to the forefront. I want the media to report the whole truth about them, instead of malicious innuendos about Michael Jackson's Not Guilty verdict. I want a sting, because without a sting there is no proof that any wrong doing took place during 1993 and 2003 Police raid on Neverland. Without a sting there is no proof that the families' of Chandler and Arvizo were liars (since the media never reported the truth). Without a sting people around the world will always have lingering suspicion about whether or not "he did it".
Imconvinced- I understand your points of a sting. I think it is vital for MJ to come back with a BAM! And what better way than to come with legal documents and stone cold evidence that he was 100% Framed and 777% Innocent.
I want there to be a 'sting' as well for all the reasons outlined by Moon and even more....I want there to be several 'stings' in fact. And I also believe that in order for Mike's full message to be heard...something bigger than a hoax court needs to be taking place.
If Mike is working with the FBI (and a lot of 'evidence' points to that)...then for all we know, some 'stings' are personal for Mike, while others are 'targets' that the FBI is more interested in. If they are working together...then I'm sure some of these 'targets' overlap along some 'dots'.
The 'targets' I could see, at this point, as being possible targets are: the judicial system (including the DA's office and judges), doctors, pharmacies, the media, 'fans', and possibly AEG (could be some evidence there...like Gongaware's testimony, the email Kenny sent to AEG about MJ's health, Murray saying he thought he'd be working for Mike but soon learned he was working for AEG, Gongaware's email captured on Murray's phone to the insurance co. refusing any tests on Mike being done anywhere but at Carolwood, etc---could make them guilty of a few things, but it could also be part of the 'plot' to make them look guilty, not sure yet).
As for the DA and the judge...based on what I've seen so far, I tend to think they are all 'in on it'...the ones in court anyway. But just because this judge and this DA is aware of the 'hoax'...it doesn't negate the possibility that they could be actively participating in a 'sting' operation as well. No matter how corrupt organizations have become---whether that's the govt, media, religion, big business, etc---there are always good people out there too. It could very well be that some of those 'good' people in the FBI spotted corruption (how could they not?) with the allegations against MJ and actually wanted to help him. Is that too far-fetched? I know if I was in a position that could help Mike while doing what I'm being paid to do (stop corruption)...I would've helped him. And just as I'm sure there's good people in the FBI...I'm sure there's some people in the DA's office and some judges...who are either also 'good' people or who would be willing to do some 'good' to counteract some 'bad' they've done :lol: (i.e. I think someone had said Pastor was investigated at some point).
Back once wrote something...way back...about having 'friends' in all corners...and the building blocks being set up. As mentioned, I WANT there to be a 'sting' and I tend to think that in order for Mike to pull off this part of the hoax...the trial...he would need the help of 'key' people in 'key' places. I think people finding out, in the end, that the FBI, the DA, and a judge were 'in on it'...and 'it' was for a movie, even one teaching a valuable lesson to the media and to 'fans'....based on people's reactions for a lot less, any message(s) Mike may have will be overshadowed by their bitching about tax dollars being spent for something that would be, at its core, just a personal vendetta for Mike.
I think it's gotta be bigger than that...much bigger. In fact, I'm starting to think that even the 'targets' I've listed may be small potatoes once the big picture is finally revealed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I would like to see the feet
Why they leave the tube in his mouth for the photo.
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJsupposedautopsy.jpg)
Supposed autopsy of MJ by Christopher Rogers, deputee Medical examiner, Chief of Forensics Medicine. Totally not MJ.
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
It looked like 6/25/2009 to me. Notice the "6" looks like the "9" just upside down, same font.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/peoples206_closeup.png)
And about the bellybutton, is it possible that he just has a flat, T-shaped bellybutton?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/bellybuttonshapes.png)
Do we have a picture of Michael to verify what belly button shape he has? There is a shadow on the photograph where the bellybutton should be. What I can't tell is whether a belly button is completely absent or the picture is just bad quality.
Assuming the forensic pathologist is not in on the hoax, he would have said something about there being no bellybutton, or the "body" being a dummy. It can't be a dummy though because you can't submit samples to different specialists to undergo a radiology exam, dental exam, lung exam, et cetera, if it weren't actual body parts. Unless they did not really undergo all those exams and he's lying....? Is that allowed, even for sting-operations purposes?
The date on tiles beside his body reads August 25th, 2009 -- but the autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date was wrong ... it should have read June 25th.
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
It looked like 6/25/2009 to me. Notice the "6" looks like the "9" just upside down, same font.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/peoples206_closeup.png)
And about the bellybutton, is it possible that he just has a flat, T-shaped bellybutton?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/bellybuttonshapes.png)
Do we have a picture of Michael to verify what belly button shape he has? There is a shadow on the photograph where the bellybutton should be. What I can't tell is whether a belly button is completely absent or the picture is just bad quality.
Assuming the forensic pathologist is not in on the hoax, he would have said something about there being no bellybutton, or the "body" being a dummy. It can't be a dummy though because you can't submit samples to different specialists to undergo a radiology exam, dental exam, lung exam, et cetera, if it weren't actual body parts. Unless they did not really undergo all those exams and he's lying....? Is that allowed, even for sting-operations purposes?
Anyway, body looks fine, not skeletal, just athletic (apart from the strange streched part). And Mike, isn't that blacked out part a little exaggerated? :lol:
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
what's the red spot on his chest ?
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Also, i am not sure if the AR mentioned the extra rib and the "lack" of belly button?. What about his neck and throath? didn´t they cut the trachea?You're right! I do remember something about them cutting his trachea.....so wheres the cut in the picture?? Good catch buddy! /bravo/
I am losing focus here. bangbang
A good point is that Mr Rogers, the forensic examiner, said that Michael was "healthier than the average person of his age". So it contradicts once again all the "reports" saying that Michael was ill, etc.
A good point is that Mr Rogers, the forensic examiner, said that Michael was "healthier than the average person of his age". So it contradicts once again all the "reports" saying that Michael was ill, etc.
The question is, do we believe this guy is in on the hoax or did he do an autopsy to someone who really looked like Michael? If he is in on it, it is so normal for him to say Michael was healthy but if he is not, then the person who died was healthy which is weird imo.
Am I the only one that thinks the face looks like Michael's?A little :) but something doesn't fit in his face and i can't put my finger on it...
Am I the only one that thinks the face looks like Michael's?
Again: why is Michael perfectly shaved and even has lipstick on?
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
yea tattoo lips and eyebrows.Again: why is Michael perfectly shaved and even has lipstick on?
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
Didn't the autopsy mention he had colour tattood on his lips or am I making that up?
I dont think any fam members have made a tweet about Autopsy pic. Wonder why they keep quiet, ecspecially Toya?
@Snoopy, my thought exactly. A picture is one second captured forever. This picture can then be altered, enhanced, stretched, shortened. A dummy could've been made as in Leave Me Alone short film.
I know its hard for some of us to look at this pic, but the more I see the pic, the less I see MJ.
Only time will tell, until then all we have is each other and the dots that have been connected.
The inconsistencies are right there in our faces, don't slam the door and hide now.
We've come this far, I'm going all the way. I hope you are all with me on that!
After observing the pic...i don´t see Michael. His skull, bone structure...
Calling all photoshop experts to give me a hand :cry: pls
The AR mentioned scars i don´t see in "that" body.
Not even seeing that morbid pic i can admit that Michael is dead :? time to talk to a medical pro geek/ ?
Okay, so I did a little de-sqeezing and I think this is more accurate:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/autopsy_pic_streched.jpg)
I think they sqeezed it horizontally to make him look skinnier (well I think more narrow defines it better, because he sure doesn't look skeletal). By de-sqeezing it, his body looks way more in proportion. I don't think mine is 100% accurate, but the shoulders are broader, the neck shorter and the body looks more in proportion, so I think it's at least a lot closer to accuracy than the original. And if this is really his body anno 2009, I must say he looks pretty damn fine for a anorexic junkie...
A good point is that Mr Rogers, the forensic examiner, said that Michael was "healthier than the average person of his age". So it contradicts once again all the "reports" saying that Michael was ill, etc.
Can I just ask this question ?
WHY is this autopsy picture even available to the public?
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/421613299.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1318382924&Signature=Yc6AwjrT6ltFRY5B8GcPn4L7JSI%3D)
I just flipped the picture after I cropped it. Still this looks nothing like Michael to me. The eyebrows are too different.
You may be right, but I guess I just want to believe in a sting court because of what happened to Michael in 2005. I guess what it all boils down to is that I want so desperately for Sneddon to be exposed. I want the team who worked with both Jordie Chandler's family and Gavin Arvizo's family to be exposed. I want Judge Melville to be checked. I want Dr. Arnold Klein to be checked. I want these people brought to the forefront. I want the media to report the whole truth about them, instead of malicious innuendos about Michael Jackson's Not Guilty verdict. I want a sting, because without a sting there is no proof that any wrong doing took place during 1993 and 2003 Police raid on Neverland. Without a sting there is no proof that the families' of Chandler and Arvizo were liars (since the media never reported the truth). Without a sting people around the world will always have lingering suspicion about whether or not "he did it".@TheMoonIsDancing-Cool I am glad you understand the points and it wasn't said for nothing. ;)
Imconvinced- I understand your points of a sting. I think it is vital for MJ to come back with a BAM! And what better way than to come with legal documents and stone cold evidence that he was 100% Framed and 777% Innocent.
I want there to be a 'sting' as well for all the reasons outlined by Moon and even more....I want there to be several 'stings' in fact. And I also believe that in order for Mike's full message to be heard...something bigger than a hoax court needs to be taking place.@BeTheChange-Good observations and it was 2good2btrue who posted the info on Pastor. Here are some links to info that has existed on the net about Sneddon and other things.
If Mike is working with the FBI (and a lot of 'evidence' points to that)...then for all we know, some 'stings' are personal for Mike, while others are 'targets' that the FBI is more interested in. If they are working together...then I'm sure some of these 'targets' overlap along some 'dots'.
The 'targets' I could see, at this point, as being possible targets are: the judicial system (including the DA's office and judges), doctors, pharmacies, the media, 'fans', and possibly AEG (could be some evidence there...like Gongaware's testimony, the email Kenny sent to AEG about MJ's health, Murray saying he thought he'd be working for Mike but soon learned he was working for AEG, Gongaware's email captured on Murray's phone to the insurance co. refusing any tests on Mike being done anywhere but at Carolwood, etc---could make them guilty of a few things, but it could also be part of the 'plot' to make them look guilty, not sure yet).
As for the DA and the judge...based on what I've seen so far, I tend to think they are all 'in on it'...the ones in court anyway. But just because this judge and this DA is aware of the 'hoax'...it doesn't negate the possibility that they could be actively participating in a 'sting' operation as well. No matter how corrupt organizations have become---whether that's the govt, media, religion, big business, etc---there are always good people out there too. It could very well be that some of those 'good' people in the FBI spotted corruption (how could they not?) with the allegations against MJ and actually wanted to help him. Is that too far-fetched? I know if I was in a position that could help Mike while doing what I'm being paid to do (stop corruption)...I would've helped him. And just as I'm sure there's good people in the FBI...I'm sure there's some people in the DA's office and some judges...who are either also 'good' people or who would be willing to do some 'good' to counteract some 'bad' they've done :lol: (i.e. I think someone had said Pastor was investigated at some point).
Back once wrote something...way back...about having 'friends' in all corners...and the building blocks being set up. As mentioned, I WANT there to be a 'sting' and I tend to think that in order for Mike to pull off this part of the hoax...the trial...he would need the help of 'key' people in 'key' places. I think people finding out, in the end, that the FBI, the DA, and a judge were 'in on it'...and 'it' was for a movie, even one teaching a valuable lesson to the media and to 'fans'....based on people's reactions for a lot less, any message(s) Mike may have will be overshadowed by their bitching about tax dollars being spent for something that would be, at its core, just a personal vendetta for Mike.
I think it's gotta be bigger than that...much bigger. In fact, I'm starting to think that even the 'targets' I've listed may be small potatoes once the big picture is finally revealed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Uploaded by MichaelJacksongenius on Nov 9, 2009
Proof that the prosecutor Tom Sneddon FRAMED Michael and that Michael was INNOCENT!
Songs I've used in the video:
- Give in to Me, Stranger in Moscow both written, composed and sang by Michael Jackson.
No copyrights infringment intended!
Can I just ask this question ?
WHY is this autopsy picture even available to the public?
It's because the pic is a fake and Michael is alive. And da troot will prevail soon! :mrgreen:
This doesn't look like a dead black man, even so any black man....he looks WHITE. Jermaine said in his book:
"His torso was light brown, splashed with areas of white, spreading across his upper chest, one patch of WHITE covers his ribs and stomach, another runs down his side and blotches cover one shoulder and upper arm...he looks like a WHITE man splashed with coffee"...
I don't see any of that in these photos...
<b>MR. Rogers ( Neighborhood of MAKE-BELIEVE)</b>
Assuming that Michael be dead, it is normal for this to happen, that the photo of a dead person be exposed in this way in the media without thinking of the family and children?, a thing might happen if the photo is "filtered", but will not allow a judge allow to happen WTF??
And the wound in the middle of his chest is something that should be analyzed
Assuming that Michael be dead, it is normal for this to happen, that the photo of a dead person be exposed in this way in the media without thinking of the family and children?, a thing might happen if the photo is "filtered", but will not allow a judge allow to happen WTF??
Assuming that Michael be dead, it is normal for this to happen, that the photo of a dead person be exposed in this way in the media without thinking of the family and children?, a thing might happen if the photo is "filtered", but will not allow a judge allow to happen WTF??
True! I wish Michael suddenly appear in the court session and scare everyone to death. Morons!
And the wound in the middle of his chest is something that should be analyzed
Intra-aortic balloon pump.
@Imconvinced: I never said there is no corruption in LA. I said that this sting is not against the DA or the judge as you implied. It doesn't make sense. I happen to have read one or two things about the 1993 accusations and the 2005 trial when I did research for 2 months about it for the blog that is still being highly ignored.I was only taking a guess at why the sting court would take place in LA vs SB. I do know you researched your ass off; that is why I posted your blog as well. I agree about the puppet statement. In the pic before you changed it I do think the face resembles MJ but after you scrunched it down and the body looks more in proportion I do see it as an asian body. I've seen plenty naked when I lived in Hawaii. ;)
The problem is that Sneddon was only a puppet for the puppeteers. A greedy one, because I think he got paid lots of $$$ for this. There are people behind the curtain who pay corrupt officials, or blackmail them to do this kind of things. You can lock up the dirty cops, but that doesn't solve the problem as long as there is an agenda higher up. It's like bringing water to the sea.
And Asian body? I don't see that. I really think it could very well be MJ himself with a little Adobe magic.
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
pariisjaxn (http://yfrog.com/user/pariisjaxn/profile) 26 mins 13 secs ago Twitter (http://twitter.com/) Full Moon Tonight!! Me And My Pack Of Unicorns Will Go Galloping Tonight. yfrog.com/h3my0lbj (http://yfrog.com/h3my0lbj)
lolol/
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
I see what you are trying to point out but the problem is IF this was MJ posing in a hoax pic his body would not look the same as in the swimming trunk pic. What year is that pic from? People's body shapes change over time. He was 50 at the time of death. I explained in chat the sheet is most likely the one the body was transported in when on the helicopter.I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
Okay, this is a little awkward, but I played with Michael's body a little... in Photoshop that is. And I put ome more volume to the arms and I put the black box a little higher, because that is also an illusion to make his body look off. They still did something with the legs as well, parts are covered with the sheets (weird, since when are the in sheets on an autopsy table? I guess that would get too messy). I also pointed out where the nipples are in my opinion, since there seems to be a 'fake nipple' on his right that is too high. Either for the illusion or a dark spot, but not a nipple I think. And I pointed out where his belly button should be. I also made the legs a little longer without stretching the rest of the picture. Keep in mind that I spent only 5 minutes and I'm not a Photoshop expert.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/awkward.jpg)
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real...
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
If that is Michael and I agree body structure does not change, why I see hands and legs shorter in comparison to the next photo, and torso a little narrow.
yea tattoo lips and eyebrows.Again: why is Michael perfectly shaved and even has lipstick on?
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
Didn't the autopsy mention he had colour tattood on his lips or am I making that up?
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1826;image)
Do not be hairstyle as someone who enter walk the UCLA this June 25,.. i am crazy :roll: :mrgreen:
Yep – the picture looks like it’s been elongated to make him appear much more skinny than he really is. The whole picture is out of proportion.Glad i'm not the only one who sees the same image...nope you're not crazy OMG!
Didn’t the autopsy report say he had an appendix scar as well? I can’t see it here….unless the black box is covering it.
His neck looks plastic!
Now call me crazy (all my non-believer friends do!!! Hahaha ) but to me it looks like there is an image of a face photoshopped along his chest and down his abdomen. Almost like the image on the Shroud of Turin…but not exactly the same face. Here are the two pics to compare:
The Shroud of Turin parallel is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin)
"It is a linen cloth bearing the image of a man who appears to have suffered physical trauma in a manner consistent with crucifixion. It is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The image on the shroud is commonly associated with Jesus Christ, his crucifixion and burial. The origins of the shroud and its image are the subject of intense debate among scientists, theologians, historians and researchers."
There is a lot of debate as to whether the Shroud is authentic or if it is a fake…just like there is about this supposed autopsy picture of Michael!!!!!!!!
@Ijustcantstoplovingu, MJ is on the stretcher in that GIF.
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1826;image)
Do not be hairstyle as someone who enter walk the UCLA this June 25,.. i am crazy :roll: :mrgreen:
thanks for the video ... was watching the circled red part but then ... who is stepping out of the ambulance with the guy with the coat about to cover his head? just made me go afraid/ for a moment or am I seeing things which are not there? afraid/ :shock:
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
Good point. It could be that Jermaine just said that in order for us to get suspicious n start digging or maybe he really did mean to say "hospital." Or maybe Michael really did go to the airport since a part of it was closed that day. We have to explore all possibilities. My theory was that Michael did all of this in advance and went to the airport on the morning of the 25th n left LA. After seeing the pictures of him supposedly on the gurney and autopsy table as well as him on the stretcher going into UCLA I'm starting to agree with Bec. It does make sense that he rode in the ambulance to UCLA, posed for some pictures, went in the helicopter and hopped out the coroner's van then went to Encino n camped out with his kids (it would explain the 4 sleeping bags). Considering all the pictures/videos we have of this happening it seems to be the more likely scenario as the only proof we have that he went to the airport is something Jermaine said on a radio show and questionable proof that a part of LAX was shut down which could have been for numerous reasons. If Michael did go to UCLA, coroners ect., it would make everything (including testimonies) more realistic and eliminate the need for a double/dummy/corpse.
p.s. if I were planning something like this I would want to be there to supervise as well as watch all my hard work pay off so I could do a lil happy dance. penguin/
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
Okay, this is a little awkward, but I played with Michael's body a little... in Photoshop that is. And I put some more volume to the arms and I put the black box a little higher, because that is also an illusion to make his body look off. They still did something with the legs as well, parts are covered with the sheets (weird, since when are the in sheets on an autopsy table? I guess that would get too messy). I also pointed out where the nipples are in my opinion, since there seems to be a 'fake nipple' on his right that is too high. Either for the illusion or a dark spot, but not a nipple I think. And I pointed out where his belly button should be. I also made the legs a little longer without stretching the rest of the picture. Keep in mind that I spent only 5 minutes and I'm not a Photoshop expert.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../images/awkward.jpg)
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
and another thing, this hoax ecspecially the autopsy pic, made me realize how much I love Michael and want a second chance so bad from him. I know none of us deserve it and it is not owed to us. But wouldn't be nice to have our king back?!
In my opinion i think that the person who is dead on the gurney is a look a like of Michael the body looks so young like a 21 year old or such, Also i heard on the trial that Michaels heart was so fit for someone at 50 and it was so unusual.And they have never experianced something like that before So maybe Michael has used a person who has had a illness and didnt have long to live, What do you guys think ? ;))
just having one additional question to the picture (I was not able to find whether it was already asked)
why his right hand and arm is covered under the sheet?
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
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LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
@Ijustcantstoplovingu, MJ is on the stretcher in that GIF.
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
yes that was what I originally believed, and just now when I was looking at the whole picture, the body language of who ever is stepping out of the back doors of the ambulance to be covered by that guys jacket, just made me afraid/ for a moment, I know you carnt see very much but the shape and the body languguage, and why would he have needed to be screened by the jacket? :shock: if other than mj, the jacket didnt seem to be screening the stretcher patient, could it be that that was the distraction you look here but actually Im over here, I could be very wrong on this but just thought I would point it out.
With the love always
Throughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
...
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
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LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
His legs are short :?
I am asking myself how could they take that kind of picture perspective wise. It´s like it has been taken from a balcony overlooking the operating room thorough a glass window, like happens during anatomy lessons :?
I have a hard time believing that body is Michael (yeah, I listened today many times that I am in denial :roll: ) but really...the legs are short, his bone structure and skull do not "match" my perspective and scars mentioned in the AR and the court seem to be missing.
Someone wants to slap me, please? :cry:
I don´t see Michael in that pic :?
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
Purelove, I had a hard time finding a picture of MJ standing up straight, hands down to waist, legs together. The man has so much swag its a flaw lol because he just doesn't stand straight. He always has a lean or a tilt in every pic lol. Thats why I love him :-*
But anyway, another thing is that the chin, right deltoid, left armpit, and both knees look 'stained'. Perhaps with Iodine as mentioned by others here and in the chat room. Michael, in fact, has many brown splotches on his skin on his entire body. I believe it has been said before that from the waste down, he is mostly brown colored (his natural beautiful skin color). When I first saw this autopsy photo, I was sad because my emotion overwhelmed me. But as I studied this particular picture I began to notice all of the inaccuracies of his skin color.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TSEKXXIvI[/youtube]
(http://mitajain.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael_vitiligo_11.jpg)
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
Purelove, I had a hard time finding a picture of MJ standing up straight, hands down to waist, legs together. The man has so much swag its a flaw lol because he just doesn't stand straight. He always has a lean or a tilt in every pic lol. Thats why I love him :-*
But anyway, another thing is that the chin, right deltoid, left armpit, and both knees look 'stained'. Perhaps with Iodine as mentioned by others here and in the chat room. Michael, in fact, has many brown splotches on his skin on his entire body. I believe it has been said before that from the waste down, he is mostly brown colored (his natural beautiful skin color). When I first saw this autopsy photo, I was sad because my emotion overwhelmed me. But as I studied this particular picture I began to notice all of the inaccuracies of his skin color.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TSEKXXIvI[/youtube]
(http://mitajain.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael_vitiligo_11.jpg)
I was just at a dermatologist on Monday to ask for Depigmentation for myself. I'm a vitiligo patient since I was 4. Depigmentation is a treatment where all your pigments are destroyed so your skin loses its color and you become pale white. The treatment is a process and it takes a while to lose all pigments on your entire body. They give you some pills and a fluid solution and you apply it on the dark spots. And after you have Depigmentation, your skin color can not go back to its own color. It stays pale white always. You can not gain any pigments afterwards. That's how the doctor explained it to me. So, I think Michael was having the treatment when he shot TDCAU video, the picture you posted BUT as the treatment ends, he could have NO dark spots left (his own skin color). I wrote it in the chat that using bleeching creams is another made up story because once your skin get depigmented, you don't need to use any bleeching creams to bleech your already bleeched skin.
So, I do not think Michael has a dark spot on his body no more. I'm not so sure about the spider bite area. That can be because of the bite but there shouldn't be any dark spots left after the Depigmentation treatment.
Is all that a real judgment?, with so many mistakes, lies and false proofs ... as I said in another post not to leave that the emotions to block them up
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Process
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Quote from: ~Souza~If there was a real corpse, than assisted suicide is the only option. No other death can be planned like that.
Souza,
I do agree that the assisted suicide is a very real plausable theory but not the only option to have a real body used on a planned death date. The fact that cadavers are stored for up to 6 months allows for the planned death date. Also the fact that refrigeration slows down decomp and the cadavers can be used for up to 10 hours at a time makes it possible to have enough time to stage the scene in the room before decomp set in.
They had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
They had enough time to find a suitable corpse to match almost his known illness of vitiligo. They couldn't make everything perfect because some absent things from the body were needed to provide suspicion it wasn't MJ.
The advancement of what can be done on a cadaver allows them to add what they needed [drugs] to inside of the body. They had enough time to make the body feel warm to make it seem as though it recently died. The heated room slowed down the process of the body cooling. It stayed the temp of the room providing more evidence it was fresh.
This cadaver was made up to look like a hospice patient by the room atmosphere of what was found and the paramedics statements. That also helped to fuel the already suspicion MJ was ill. It also provided credibility to the stories out there about him going to die in 6 months, being in a wheelchair, etc.
There is the issue of unclaimed/unidentified/or left there by loved ones and what to do with them. The cadavers are used for research anyways so why not for a hoax.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&p=323187#p323187QuoteThey refrigerate the body. This method allows for the cadaver to be used for periods of 10 hours at a time for study/research. http://www.sccvote.org/SCC/docs/Public% ... ent%20(DEP)/attachments/APC-HSC%20Ch2%20Mass%20Fatality%20Considerations.pdfThere is the theory that the oxygen tank was planted and found after the family had gone to the house. According to E. Fleak’s medical evidence report 3A of what she found that day 6/25/2009. Included was a green oxygen tank.
Body decomposition slows once remains are placed in cold storage (between 37–42 degrees Fahrenheit). Bodies can be stored for up to 6 months in refrigerated storage, which may provide Medical Examiner/Coroner and funeral directors enough time to process all bodies in accordance with jurisdictional standards and traditional public expectations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20586093
The demand for laboratory-based teaching and training is increasing worldwide as medical training and education confront the pressures of shorter training time and rising costs. This article presents a cost-effective perfusion technique that extends the useful life of fresh tissue. Refrigerated cadavers are preserved in their natural state for up to 45 days with a daily working period of ten hours. Tissues maintain their color and natural consistency throughout this period. This new process for preservation of tissue opens the door to improved surgical training and to numerous research opportunities.
Now that provides me more evidence to a theory I found out can be done. Oxygen can be forced into the lungs of a cadaver. That lets me know that is why the coroner was able to perform the autopsy on the cadaver. The oxygen forced into the lungs and body made it appear that it was a fresh death. The oxygen revived tissues if the cadaver used was preserved in it’s natural state. Below is to a link that explains how a cadaver is preserved for use of teaching. http://www.morgancc.edu/faculty/Smith,L/A&P%20II/Cadaver/Cadaver%20Workshop%20Handout%20for%20Students.pdf
Watch the video in the link below. I realize that the lungs are not in the cadaver’s body but this is a technique being developed by the use of a cadaver's lungs for research.
http://www.break.com/index/cadaver-lungs-still-breathing-on-respirator.html
This link below is to an article written in 1913 of the development of forcing oxygen into a cadaver’s lungs. The article describes how it can be done. Now if that was possible in 1913 like that, I believe that advancement on the method has come along ways since then. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F70810FB3B5F13738DDDA10994DD405B838DF1D3
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/DrMeltzer-1.jpg)
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/103/5/1205.full
It is possible to intubate a cadaver. Anesthesia students use cadavers to practice. I also have found evidence that suggests paramedics are trained to intubate on a combination of manikins and cadavers. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1746734
Autopsy report Anatomical summery:
5. Evidence of therapy
A. Endotracheal tube.
E. Anesthesiology.
End of that report plus H. and I. explains why there is hemmoragh in certain body parts. Diagnosis evidence 4. Evidence of resusitation.
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Isaac W. Sprague (May 21, 1841, in East Bridgewater, Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Bridgewater,_Massachusetts)[1] - January 5, 1887, in Chicago, Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago)[2]) was a famous "human skeleton".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_W._Sprague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_W._Sprague)
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Isaac_W._Sprague&action=edit§ion=1)] Biography Although normal for most of his childhood, Sprague began losing weight at age 12.[3] In 1865, he joined a circus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus) sideshow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideshow), becoming "the Living Skeleton" or "the Original Thin Man".[3][4] The next year P. T. Barnum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum) hired Sprague to work at his American Museum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum%27s_American_Museum) until it burned down in 1865, continuing off and on to tour him throughout the country.[4] By the age of 44, he was 5 feet and 6 inches tall with a weight of only 43 pounds.[3] He died, in poverty[4], of asphyxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphyxia).[1]
Three years later, his health was so poor that he was given only six months to live. On Monday, January 6, 1887, having outlived doctors' expectations but still quite sick, he was engaged to perform in Boston. When he appeared onstage, ailing from pneumonia, he interrupted the lecturer, saying "Don't call me the living skeleton; call me the dying skeleton", and even wagered $250 that he would die before the following Saturday.http://www.phreeque.com/isaac_sprague.html (http://www.phreeque.com/isaac_sprague.html)
@Ijustcantstoplovingu, MJ is on the stretcher in that GIF.
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
yes that was what I originally believed, and just now when I was looking at the whole picture, the body language of who ever is stepping out of the back doors of the ambulance to be covered by that guys jacket, just made me afraid/ for a moment, I know you carnt see very much but the shape and the body languguage, and why would he have needed to be screened by the jacket? :shock: if other than mj, the jacket didnt seem to be screening the stretcher patient, could it be that that was the distraction you look here but actually Im over here, I could be very wrong on this but just thought I would point it out.
With the love always
I also have the feeling that the men with the jacket wants to distract, but only for some one else , i mean the paramedic! to the far right he has big glasses on and he sort of bend to not being reconised, everytime i see that tape he attracks my attention afraid/ i dunno its just my feeling.
LOVE and bearhug
Quote from: paula-cQuotebec wrote:
True Grace, what came out of UCLA via Helicopter need not be what went into UCLA via stretcher gif.
I think it was Michael himself via stretcher gif. TMZ ran an article in early 2010 with a headline that said MJ was alive at UCLA. That goes along with Michael sitting up on the stretcher as seen in the gif. Some say that was debunked because of legs... I've looked a thousand times and my eyes don't see legs that aren't attached to a person accounted for in the pic that isn't Michael. 4 pics of the stretcher entering UCLA were released originally in fall of 2009... then a couple weeks later 3 more pics of the scene were released to fill in the gaps to create the gif... and those 3 frames showed Michael's face/ear/ponytail... 7 pics in total to create that gif... that's a hell of a coincidence... but I digress. (or do I)
I sure think it would be fun if the "body" was MJ himself all along, culminating in MJ jumping out of the coroner van at the end. Fun most definitely, perhaps not realistic, but the stuff of a movie for sure.
If this is a movie, in my opinion after 22 months of research and live time observations of it all, The above Scenario is what happened on screen. What happened after they said "cut" on each scene only our imagination can satisfy for now.QuoteSTUDY @ MJHD Thriller 2 (TII): The Dome Project Completed on 6-9-09
Now we are ready to start looking at some very strong evidence pointing to 9-9-09 as the MJ "resurrection" day. Keep in mind that at least some of the "resurrection" may have been filmed on another day—just like some of the "death" photography may not have been done on 6-25-09, and possibly some of the funeral / "burial" footage may have been recorded sometime other than 9-3-09. But according to the hoax plan, and the movie script: the "death" was 6-25-09, the funeral & "burial" was 9-3-09, and the "resurrection" was 9-9-09.
The following report is from the MTV website: "… Michael Jackson completed a mysterious video production known as the ‘Dome Project’ two weeks before his death … details on the project are hard to come by due to confidentiality agreements signed by those who worked on it … it was shot, from June 1-9 [ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09!]. Four sets were constructed for the video, including a cemetery similar to the one from the singer’s famous 1983 ‘Thriller’ video. Other sets included … a simulated lush jungle … In addition to the ‘Dome’ project, AEG Live is reported to have filmed 100 hours of rehearsals for the London shows …"click here; also click here, and click here
Now that the movie trailer is out, we can see that "This Is It" will include video from the Dome Project. {click here; also click here; and see the jungle shot at 0:49, click here}
Why was the Dome Project a mysterious secret, unless it’s about MJ coming back from the dead? Why does it include Thriller type shots, unless the movie is indeed Thriller 2 (TII, "T" for "Thriller" and "II" for Roman numeral 2; also TII for This Is It)? And if it is Thriller 2, then wouldn’t the movie include coming back from the dead—just like the first Thriller video??
And why was it "coincidentally" completed, only two weeks before his "death"? Doesn’t this sound more like a plan to finish the Dome Project first, and then go into the "death" phase? And most amazing: why was it completed on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09? Again, just turn that first "6" upside down, and you have: 9-9-09!!!
Hey paula,
That's a good thought about the scenes being staged. Maybe the scene of the guy sitting up on the stretcher came from there. lol 8-) However according to bec's timing of when the 4 original pics, the other 3 pictures showed up online, I say that the extra pictures showing the details of someone on the stretcher and pony tail, etc. could very well have been photoshopped in after the fact. Just like the Fake Ambulance picture. ;)
It's all about subliminal suggestions.
And from the KINGdom, came these whispers…..
Seek the answers in the darkness. Do not be afraid to venture into hidden shadows, for you will SEE the unmistakable LIGHT surrounding the "madness" of your scope. Bolster your foothold and hone your vision while walking the path of wisdom---and soon you shall SEE, every corner, crevice, fissure...with CLARITY.
Do not become encumbered by ASSumptions from others who cast mere words upon the KNOWERS without irrefutable evidence to support their "certainties". It's no better than reading a tabloid….."Well, I read it in so-and-so, so it MUST be true!" This board alone (not to mention everything outside of this forum pertaining to the Family, knowers & MJ himself) has brought forth THOUSANDS--literally!--of VITAL pieces of the puzzle.
Believing and knowing are 2 different things. Do not digress from what's been learned in the past 2 years and allow implausible innuendos from people who "saw it on tv, so it must be true" to infiltrate what you already KNOW. Obviously, if they TRULY believed their own words beyond a shadow of doubt, they would not be spending time on a hoax board. I am of the opinion that a TRUE fan would not have a heart so cold as to invade a board that supports Michael Jackson---and his reasons for hoaxing his death!---would be here simply for the "fun" of distracting and tormenting the fans that support him. So, let's chalk it up to----> they too have fallen victim to the media; they have failed to read between the lines that Mr. Jackson has/is/and will continue to provide.
Many of you get annoyed when nonbeLIEvers come here questioning your faith and knowledge. Don't be. Instead, thank them for contributing to the quest to look beyond and prove them wrong. Thank them for playing their "role" in the journey; their doubt has motivated beLIEvers to re-examine the facts and reinforce what's already known. The palpable irresolution in their empty words reflect their OWN doubt…a cry for help perhaps. Continue to show compassion & support by helping them to think outside the box. There is a PLETHORA of information right in front of their eyes…..perhaps they are just not ready to SEE yet.
GREATNESS is produced when one goes against the grain--even when the rest of the world is ridiculing them. When everything that's been learned in the past 2 years is closely re-examined, there is absolutely no room for doubt. It's CLEAR!!! Some beLIEvers feel ridiculed by nonbeLIEvers --- who have sadly been walking along a convoluted path with their eyes shut for the past 2 years. It's THEIR choice. The CLUES are there. The "MISTAKES" are there. The EVIDENCE is there---wrapped up in an enigma of Genius, Mystery & Magic!
p.s. Front is of the STRONG opinion that the KINGdom never wanted this "Great Divide"--it was inevitable--- I assure you, Michael would NOT WANT this! however, this too shall be righted in tIME…….
Keep The Faith!
Has this been mentioned before, sorry too many pages to read.
WHY WOULD THE TUBE FROM THE AMBU BAG STILL BE LEFT ON THE FACE OF THE CORPSE? Actually it should have been removed the moment the patient was declared dead, the family is not supposed to come and see him with tubes sticking out. What about someone who would want to kiss him BYE.
I have heard that depending on the circumstances of the death...that those types of medical devices remain intact for the coroners inspection to make certain that there was no error in placement. The family would be told before viewing that it was a necessary requirement in these cases.
Also when MJ (the corpse) was transported in the white sheet/body bag in the helicopter, there was no tube attached. So did they reattach this later?
Too tired at the moment to look back through images to see just how close a view we got of the head area but I'm not recalling anything that jumps out at me as being "lumpy" or misshaped from this ET tube so I think you caught a great oooppps there :-)
WHAT ABOUT THOSE WADS OF COTTON ON THE ARMS TOO? A corpse would be clean, and the cotton would be removed, maybe replaced by tape if need be, but actually not.
Totally no reason for these things to still be there...at least not that I can fathom. Dead men don't have circulation and therefore won't be bleeding any time soon...lol.
They tried to make the corpse believable by yellowing the stomach, but he did not have a problem there, so why would that be the first to change colour?
It wouldn't...that whole color scheme is off in that pic as a few have mentioned. You don't even have to magnify it to pick up on that. How many sections of different hues are in that pic?...it's crazy obvious.
Someone from the hoax planning department please watch NCIS, they have really good corpses on autopsy tables. And the genitals are either covered by a towel or blurred out in the program
Looove NCIS...one of a very few things I miss since doing away with my cable months ago.
and another thing, this hoax ecspecially the autopsy pic, made me realize how much I love Michael and want a second chance so bad from him. I know none of us deserve it and it is not owed to us. But wouldn't be nice to have our king back?!I will patiently wait for it!!
http://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#ProcessQuoteProcess
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
And the wound in the middle of his chest is something that should be analyzed
Intra-aortic balloon pump.
Intra-aortic Balloon Pump (IABP) therapy is the most widely used means of circulatory support for patients with hemodynamic instability resulting from LV Failure. Well known effects of IABP include decrease in afterload that leads to an increase in stroke volume and cardiac output.* Today, insertion of the IAB catheter can be initiated rapidly with relative ease and safety. The technological advances have permitted a wide range of hospitals, large and small, to take advantage of this potentially life-saving therapy.http://ca.maquet.com/therapies-solutions/ (http://ca.maquet.com/therapies-solutions/)
Heart failure is the pathophysiologic state in which the heart, via an abnormality of cardiac function (detectable or not), fails to pump blood at a rate commensurate with the requirements of the metabolizing tissues or is able to do so only with an elevated diastolic filling pressure.http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview)
Heart failure (see the images below) may be caused by myocardial failure but may also occur in the presence of near-normal cardiac function under conditions of high demand. Heart failure always causes circulatory failure, but the converse is not necessarily the case, because various noncardiac conditions (eg, hypovolemic shock, septic shock) can produce circulatory failure in the presence of normal, modestly impaired, or even supranormal cardiac function. To maintain the pumping function of the heart, compensatory mechanisms increase blood volume, cardiac filling pressure, heart rate, and cardiac muscle mass. However, despite those mechanisms, there is progressive decline in the ability of the heart to contract and relax, resulting in worsening heart failure.
Common causes of heart failure include myocardial infarction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction) and other forms of ischemic heart disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ischemic_heart_disease), hypertension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertension), valvular heart disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvular_heart_disease), and cardiomyopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiomyopathy).[4] The term "heart failure" is sometimes incorrectly used to describe other cardiac-related illnesses, such as myocardial infarction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction) (heart attack) or cardiac arrest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_arrest), which can cause heart failure but are not equivalent to heart failure.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_failure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_failure)
The IABP catheter is inserted percutaneously into the femoral artery through an introducer sheath using the modified Seldinger technique. Alternative routes of access include subclavian, axillary, brachial, or iliac arteries. The catheter can also be inserted surgically using a transthoracic or translumbar approach, but this is associated with an increased periprocedural mortalityhttp://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/587246_6 (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/587246_6)
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
I just want to state my change of mind on the pre-autopsy pic. Initially it simply did not look like MJ, but upon closer examination, I now feel it is him indeed. He does have a 50 year old body in excellent shape. There has been either make-up applied or it's been photoshopped to add to the dramatic aspect, such as the red bruising by the heart, and perhaps stretched. For me also it relates to the forced upon him traumatizing photos in the 2003 allegations. I was thinking how all these years the public and paps wanted to snoop into every aspect of his life giving him no privacy. In this hoax, MJ is giving us glimpses into all the most personal aspects of his life, photographs of his private rooms, interviews of some of the people close to him, images of his children, and most importantly images of his almost naked body. The world always wanted a piece of him, to have him, to know everything. To see his body like that gave me chills/thrills and a sadness. MJ has literally given us his ALL. It again reminds me (not of the fake shroud) but the imagined naked figure of Jesus on the cross or stake as JW's claim, while the onlookers jeered or wept. It evokes much emotion for me, in its beauty, frailty, exposure, and for the heart of the man who would give this hoax story to us, to the world. I love you Michael!
Quote from: TheMoonIsDancing on Today at 08:50:04 AMQuoteand another thing, this hoax ecspecially the autopsy pic, made me realize how much I love Michael and want a second chance so bad from him. I know none of us deserve it and it is not owed to us. But wouldn't be nice to have our king back?!I will patiently wait for it!!
MsTrinity333Quotehttp://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM
Thank you for the link. Here are two pics from Pearl Jr. video.
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/coronerlicensenumbers.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/elephantsignatcourthouse.jpg)
Along with the emotionally hard pics of MJ from the trial, have come clear messages/proofs that MJ is indeed in complete control and creating all this!!(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/popcorn1.gif)
And thank you for the reminder fatalkiss26 from Front on having patience with newcomers who still believe MJ is dead. One day both sides of all who truly love MJ will be united as we cheer for our returned King!
those still in doubt need to read Front's post:And from the KINGdom, came these whispers…..
Seek the answers in the darkness. Do not be afraid to venture into hidden shadows, for you will SEE the unmistakable LIGHT surrounding the "madness" of your scope. Bolster your foothold and hone your vision while walking the path of wisdom---and soon you shall SEE, every corner, crevice, fissure...with CLARITY.
Do not become encumbered by ASSumptions from others who cast mere words upon the KNOWERS without irrefutable evidence to support their "certainties". It's no better than reading a tabloid….."Well, I read it in so-and-so, so it MUST be true!" This board alone (not to mention everything outside of this forum pertaining to the Family, knowers & MJ himself) has brought forth THOUSANDS--literally!--of VITAL pieces of the puzzle.
Believing and knowing are 2 different things. Do not digress from what's been learned in the past 2 years and allow implausible innuendos from people who "saw it on tv, so it must be true" to infiltrate what you already KNOW. Obviously, if they TRULY believed their own words beyond a shadow of doubt, they would not be spending time on a hoax board. I am of the opinion that a TRUE fan would not have a heart so cold as to invade a board that supports Michael Jackson---and his reasons for hoaxing his death!---would be here simply for the "fun" of distracting and tormenting the fans that support him. So, let's chalk it up to----> they too have fallen victim to the media; they have failed to read between the lines that Mr. Jackson has/is/and will continue to provide.
Many of you get annoyed when nonbeLIEvers come here questioning your faith and knowledge. Don't be. Instead, thank them for contributing to the quest to look beyond and prove them wrong. Thank them for playing their "role" in the journey; their doubt has motivated beLIEvers to re-examine the facts and reinforce what's already known. The palpable irresolution in their empty words reflect their OWN doubt…a cry for help perhaps. Continue to show compassion & support by helping them to think outside the box. There is a PLETHORA of information right in front of their eyes…..perhaps they are just not ready to SEE yet.
GREATNESS is produced when one goes against the grain--even when the rest of the world is ridiculing them. When everything that's been learned in the past 2 years is closely re-examined, there is absolutely no room for doubt. It's CLEAR!!! Some beLIEvers feel ridiculed by nonbeLIEvers --- who have sadly been walking along a convoluted path with their eyes shut for the past 2 years. It's THEIR choice. The CLUES are there. The "MISTAKES" are there. The EVIDENCE is there---wrapped up in an enigma of Genius, Mystery & Magic!
p.s. Front is of the STRONG opinion that the KINGdom never wanted this "Great Divide"--it was inevitable--- I assure you, Michael would NOT WANT this! however, this too shall be righted in tIME…….
Keep The Faith!
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
This part of Souza's post reminded me of something from the other day. Did anybody else catch the objection regarding Ed Winters whereabouts the other day or was I hearing things? I think it was while Fleak was on the stand...his name came up and defense asked her if she knew where he is...and I think the prosecution objected to that question. Why would they object to that since he was the pivotal "frontman" for the Coroners Office post 6/25? I find that strange if I heard it correctly (Kline's name and the innuendo surrounding him haven't met the same objection) but haven't had a chance to re-listen on YT to know for sure. Anybody else hear what I did or have an opinion about it?
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_lol.gif) ), etc.
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Score a huge point for bec on her wit! I almost sprayed my laptop when I read that last line!!! That whole GP crowd seems like they are more into their hormones than humanity so I've never been a fan of that line of thought.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#Process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#Process)QuoteProcess
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
Thank you Purelove for the info. You are Turkish, correct?
And you are currently going through depigmentation process as I read. Am I correct?
I wish you the best of luck and much love! I love you more than you'll ever know, sweetheart! You have been one of my favorite posters since I joined MJDH! :-*
I believe you when you say that Michael's natural brown pigment would be completely gone if he were receiving depigmentation treatments and that raises even more doubt in my mind about the autopsy pic. I wonder why are there stains on his body? If they are prepping a certain area to cut, why in the places with stains? And why is this picture and the 'gurney pic' so stretched out?
It is not MJ's body, neither one. I do not believe so.
Thank you Purelove for your story :)
I decided to call a pathologist today. I ended up with a very helpful doctor who is a clinical pathologist. This means his profession is not really to cut into corpses (he is not a coroner or forensic pathologist) but he investigates organs and tissues of living people. However, he does perform autopsies sometimes as well, but that is around 2-3% of his work. I called and told him I was doing research because I am writing a medical thriller and had some questions so i could form a factual and accurate murder plot. He was very helpful and asked me if I could let him know when my book will be published... poor guy. However, I got some very interesting information from him about dead people, freezing them and embalming them. Here is the info he gave me in no particular order:I bet that was an interesting conversation!
Freezing a body and then melting it and heating it up is possible and it will indeed make a body look fresh. This however requires a quick freeze (professional) and immediately after death. The freeze will stop the decomposition of the body. From the outside, you will not see that the body isn't fresh. So far it seems that the EMT's. the doctors and the coroner could have been fooled with a long-dead corpse. HOWEVER... the moment the body is at a room temperature, rigor mortis and decomp will start and at a room that is heated up like that, it will go very rapidly, most definitely when the body is thin. If we believe that the EMT's found the body with the eyes open, we can be sure that there was no way that the doctors would be able to close the eyes after pronouncing him dead 2 hours later. And according to the official story we have been fed, they did because Jermaine tells us in his book that he opened one of the eyes when he went to see the body in the hospital. Besides that, it is standard procedure.
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before. When you freeze a corpse, your tissue -that contains water- will crystalize. He called it 'freezing artifacts' (literally translated from Dutch). Standard procedure with every autopsy performed is making slices of all the organs and putting those slices under a microscope. If tissue has been frozen before, the slices of the tissue will show tiny 'holes' because the crystals damage the tissue. By all means, the autopsy report will state that certain 'freeze artifacts' are present in the tissue and it will also state that itt was most likely caused by freezing.
What they can also see under the microscope, is if the patient has been ill before death. As he explained it to me, the organs that would have been affected by the illness, would show deformation of the cells. The coroner would definitely see if the patient was terminally ill before death.
He also said that in case of a heart attack, they will notice inflammation of the heart muscle under the microscope. I didn't dare to ask if that would be the same with a cardiac arrest, because I was afraid I would give myself away, hahaha. Maybe one of the medical experts here will know that. But as far as I know, the heart did not show any signs of inflammation in the AR, but maybe I overlooked something.
Latsly, since I had the feeling the doktor enjoyed my crazy questions, I also decided to ask about embalming, to make sure La Toya is full of shit in her book about the body looking stunning after 10 weeks.
He explained that they embalmed the people that were used by the students for research and class. They use a 4% formaldehyde and use a lot to make sure the whole body is fixed and that the decomp will stop. But to make sure the corpse will not dry out and 'schrink', they also put it in a bath of formaldehyde. If you don't lay the corpse in such a bath, the corpse will not look very pretty within a few days and will dry out completely. The body will also be fixed, so we now officially have confirmation that La Toya was lying when she said that MJ (who was allegedly embalmed) looked awesome without that bath after 10 weeks, and that she could bend the body.
So who saw the 'body'?
The family: obviously in on it
Security: Alvarez is the one calling 911 at exactly 12:21 pm. His testimony was full of fat BS and I think we can safely say he is in on it. Not to mention that we have a video of the security doing high fives later on as if they were happy they pulled it off.
Murray: obviously in on it, the guy didn't kill anyone and is on trial for something he didn't do, yet looks pretty relaxed when he let's Ben photograph him at the barber/pedicure/Disneyland/tie-shopping etc.
Paramedics: Didn't compare notes and their stories differ. If they were so truthful about what they have seen, why isn't their story identical? Plus they lost PRECIOUS moments by backing out that ambulance. Why didn't paramedic #3 testify? Who is that anyway? And why are they on a fake ambulance picture? Why did they back out of the property without that being necessary?
Dr. Cooper: Pronounced MJ in the field, yet worked on the body for over an hour, even though she testified that he was clinically DOA. She also pronounced him at 2:26 which ties in with the hoax, plus she allegedly closed the eyes of a corpse that was dead for hours (or months for that matter). Same goes for Nguyen. Both women are nowhere to be found on the internet with pictures (except for some linkedin profile of Nguyen with only UCLA as working experience and 1 connection ... ) while the mysterious Dr. Daniel Cruz, who IS on the internet with pictures, and who is a cardiologist! has not been on the prosecution's witness list.
Helicopter crew: I'm not even starting on them, they had the body on the seats for the crew in plain sight. Besides that, they could have been told that they had to transport a dummy like that to distract, so the real body could safely be transported by van. No need for a real dead body either way.
Coroner: Dr. Rogers, who said he did the autopsy, looked UNREAL and lied as soon as he lowered his right hand. "What is your profession Dr. Rogers?" -> "I'm a deputy medical examiner".. ORLY? BS! He is a Chief forensic MD, as stated on the website of the LA County Coroner. Besides that, the coroner in charge of the autopsy was Lakshmanan, why isn't HE on the witness list of the prosecution? And we know that the coroner must be in on it if he did not get a MJ look-a-like on his table that died the exact moment MJ decided (years ago) to hoax his death. Either he has seen no body at all and still made a bogus report, or he had a body on his table that had been frozen and still made a bogus report.
LAPD detective Martinez, who has NOT been on the witness list for the prosecution.
Forest Lawn director Scott something, according to La Toya, plus Jeffré Phillips. Both were present when the coffin was opened after 10 weeks and they lifted the body to get palm prints... 'nuff said :lol:
There is still no reason for a real corpse. For who? To fool Martinez? Is he the target of the sting? Just he? And if so, why didn't they let him take the stand?
But anyways, I wanted to let y'all know that there is no way a coroner can be fooled with a terminally ill patient that died 6 months ago and has been on ice, no way.
Does anyone know why court won't resume till Monday? I know they ended early because of a medical convention in Chicago ( the docs are going to it) is that the reason why?
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#ProcessQuoteProcess
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
As for the sting, I had a talk with bec last week and we compared 'notes'. I think the sting IS against Sneddon et al, and Jordy Chandler might be the key figure in all this. There was talk that Jordy spoke about the case, that nothing ever happened and that Michael was framed. But we can't find him saying that anywhere. I think that rumour was started on purpose, because I am very sure some people (Sneddon, Zonen, Sheriff whatshisname etc. plus Dimond, Bashir and all the other rats that were responsible for the false allegations) got very nervous hearing that. Maybe Jordy is the 'bate' in this sting. Jordy was old enough to remember everything and he must have crucial information. The fact that he didn't want to testify against Mike (twice!) must already have made some people get nervous, I bet they crapped themselves when they heard Jordy spoke out. Keep in mind that Jordy NEVER wanted to cooperate, but that Chandller and Torbiner drugged him to plant false memories in his head. I truly believe Jordy is on Michael's side.
It's just a thought and not provable because if this is going on, it's behind the curtains, but that would be a sting that makes sense. Personal vendetta, it's what the FBI has investigated, so I think (and I HOPE) that that is the case. I think this trial is merely to get people to see how easy it is to frame someone for something they didn't do, and how someone is condemned without trial because of the biased media reports. This hoax is more than just the sting.
The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.The last sentence the way it is written makes it look like I was saying the 2 coroner people who haven't testified needed a body/corpse to work on. That last sentence is in the wrong place I should have placed it behind:
The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy.I NEVER have stated that my theory included a terminally ill person. In the comment you quoted I said in my next comment I am reposting a comment I had made to you. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362783.html#msg362783
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Oct 6, 2011http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XGVditBfyQ&feature=relmfu
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 8 - 06.10.2011
If anyone here has American coroner as a friend or a family member,
please make them read full autopsy report and see what they say. Please?
One huge reason why I'm on this forum is because of that "document", among other odd things.
That report can not be real and from my understanding {sadly I'm not a coroner,
don't have an American coroner as on-line friend and procedures here in my
country are a bit different, I read all US autopsy reports I could find online,
watched all videos, read all blogs where someones with US coroner friends commented
on autopsy [non-believers, which is good in this case, objective critical view on
questionable autopsy report]}
this report is wrong in so many ways - it sort of describes couple
different bodies. It's so weird and unprofessional in places. I'd say it's
obvious fake that can trick most regular ppl, but not a real coroner.
About theories.. Murray could be a well-paid killer, but no way he was
acting alone this way. Who paid him? Those should be on trial.
I hope Michael indeed became aware of dangers in his life and made his escape right on time.
I think there could be a dead body. It's a serious hoax, and they could bother
to such level. But absolutely, if everyone, including security team and Murray
himself, were on Michael's side {Murray was in hospital, he saw the "body"},
then there was no real need for the "dead body".
At the moment Murray looks like a total incompetent fool. So foolish and
unprofessional I can't believe MJ would allow such "doctor" in his life at all!
MJ, who met some real professionals I bet, smart man who often was
suspicious of ppl around him. I just don't believe it. That Murray guy is fake. smiley_spider
Ok so Im_convinced, what exactly is your body theory at this point then? You've stated here recently what it is NOT (not terminal patient, not frozen), but I'm not clear on what exactly it IS.
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
They had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
Whether or not you have read any of the previous TIAI posts, I highly recommend that you read this one—it will surely kill the murder theory (as well as any MJ literal death theory). In fact, if there is ever any TIAI post that you need to read: This Is It!!!http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502)
Oh, and in addition to looking like Mike and having vitiligo, the body also had to have a slim body, around 50 years old, african american, with nose job done and died of acute propofol intoxication, alongside other features I probably missed.
I believe a lot, but that would be too much of a coincidence.
Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Koffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...Good point!
ps: as TS abandoned the mission of sustaining the death theory, someone had to do itHe should be happy you're helping him out!
I find it ironic that the 'system' relies on, and is confident about, 12 men and women determining the 'fate' of another human being....but at the same time, NOT confident in these 12 people doing their own research to determine if what is being shown and said in court is the 'truth'.
If the jury in this case was 'allowed' to do their own research....as we have done for the past 2+ years....their deliberations would last a total of 10 seconds because they'd KNOW that Murray is not guilty of anyone's death, since Mike is alive.
And…
As it stands right now...they will be basing their conclusions ONLY on what they have seen and heard in court....which, as we know, includes 'evidence' that has been altered, fabricated, and contradicted. How can any verdict that comes out of that be considered 'justice'?
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see.
You know on second thought, this is a never-ending, un-winnable debate. Most aren't going to really believe until MJ moonwalks across the courtroom. And some won't even believe then.
Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.
Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.
Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Koffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...
You know on second thought, this is a never-ending, un-winnable debate. Most aren't going to really believe until MJ moonwalks across the courtroom. And some won't even believe then.
Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.
Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.
Could the Sting be also against some doctors that have "treated" Michael? I say that because I was wondering again about what Michael is trying to show us with the trial. For the moment I see that Murray is in very bad waters, I don't see how it is possible to not find him guilty. He made colossal "mistakes", so he is responsible. With that in mind it is possible that one of the purposes of this trial could be not to show us that an innocent man can be found guilty but the exact opposite? That he is in fact guilty of gross negligence. This would then fit in with the sting theory to expose the doctor/doctors who did this to Michael.I wanted to add some more thoughts to this theory. Concerning the autopsy picture my opinion is that a dummy was used, like the one for the ambulance picture with bits of Photoshop magic of course. Dummies can be flexible which fits with what La Toya said about being able to bend the body and which could explain the body moving in the helicopter ride lol. It's also possible to close/open the eyes of a dummy, hence why they're closed in the ambulance and why Jermaine has been able to open them at the hospital.
I am thinking of the pictures we've been shown for example, maybe that some of them represent the truth of past events? And Michael is trying to show us what happened to him years ago like a sort of documentary. It's a kind of re-enactment of HIStory.
Coming back to the Sting, it could very well be directed at those doctors. God, they should feel threatened right now after having seen these pictures. :evil:
Several doctors have been mentioned already during the trial, and Arnold Klein is one of them. What makes me think the Sting could be directed at him for example is that he was Michael's main doctor and is NOT on the witness list??? Why? It does not make any sense at all given the "theme" discussed in the trial. So I'm of the opinion that this fact, to not have included Klein in the witness list, is a BIG hint as to whom the sting is directed at. Remember as well the statements that surrounded Klein after Michael's "death"; the gay garbage and the children conception. I will (safely?) assume that Michael would never include this in the Hoax. And don't forget Back's post about Klein that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Of course it would make the FBI involved.
In my opinion, the people who think Murray tried to kill Mike and he escaped at the last minute and quickly set up this hoax, are unable to see the work that was put in this and how brilliant it is. I agree with PureLove, that would mean underestimating Michael BIG TIME. This is HUGE.
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response.
This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Michael Jackson Was 'A Bit Of An Alien'
Rashida Jones - the daughter of music producer Quincy Jones - has revealed she has many fond memories of Michael Jackson but accepts he was a ''bit of an alien'' to most people.
Michael Jackson was "an alien", according to Quincy Jones' daughter Rashida Jones. ...
How come we put a single person on trial because he was involved in a situation with one VIP person, yet forget about questioning and putting those sitting in positions we elected them into on a pillory when they continue to neglect, forget and disrespect the many entrusted persons relying on them?
...
This trial is not only about Michael Jackson as a person.
This is performance art in a dimension that was never seen on earth before.
Michael has dedicated himself to perform as a sacrificial lamb in order to unveil the truth about our reality, hypocrisy and virulent gamblers.
These are indeed "pictures at an exhibition
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
(Murray did NOT call 911 when he clearly needed the help of the paramedics)
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
(It seems some doctors would prefer to cultivate a drug dependency, and therefore have no intention of curing, to ensure that the $$$$ keep rolling in.) :x
I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
Purelove I was coming here to make a comment and then noticed your post. Well said!
So I don't have to make two post I'll just post my thoughts here:
Sorry I don't mean to come out harsh but this is something I stayed up all night thinking about. By all means I am ready for the bashing and degrading comments that I am sure are to come but before people start typing just think about it for a few minutes.
People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see.
To take it a step further we would then need to just accept that all of the inconsistencies that we have seen in the last 2 years (too many to count) and everyone who has opened up their mouth needs to see a doctor about memory loss because they can't remember what they have said from one interview to another.
To take it one step further, Back, TS and Front then all have more then enough time on their hands and should seek immediate mental help for all of the post that they have done which in turn would mean that we too need to seek mental help because of the chain reaction. Meaning TS or Front post on this board and then the research starts and all of the connections that can be made are just the draw of luck. If that is truly the case then there is a whole lot of luck in the air and I should take a chance at playing the lottery.
Is it that "coincidental" that Michael had this in the making for years and it just so happens that Murray comes along to kill him (hired or not) and everything just happens to line up with everything Michael had been working on to begin with? If we think that Murray was trying (again hired or not) to kill Michael and he found out and was able to escape then the sentence before has no standing and it again was just a coincidence that everything in the past connects and we should all quit and call it a day.
With that being said, I feel better thank you for letting me get that out.
@ Purelove and Souza I think you meant to comment on my post. Well, first, I did not say MJ planned hoax last minute, if you read to the end, I said since MJ carefully planned hoax , he could think of using real corpse to be taken to UCLA, that has vitiligo and MJ look.
I have a hard time to believe that the CM defense team wasting time in the court defending their client who is in hoax and did not commit involuntary manslaughter. Also I won't believe that court is a circus. Maybe it looks like it from the far, but not form what I see .
OK, tell me now, what and who is a target in this hoax? What is going to happen in the scenario you believe in, who and what is going to be exposed?
Do you have an answer, I'll take it, give me reasonable fact, not just generalized "this is huge". OK, it is huge....what is it?
I think the hoax is about to reveal who wanted to kill Michael for years and related reasons. For that matter, we have to have an object who tried to commit the act,and that is Conrad Murray. I don't get how you don't see this obvious fact.
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response.
I wasn't talking ONLY about you all4love but I was referring to everyone on the forum who thinks that Murray was trying to kill Michael. You are NOT the only one who is writing about this "theory". You can believe that when I want to adress someone directly, I quote that person's post. And still you are not the only one who wrote about that theory on this thread. So, instead of mentioning everyone one by one, I preferred to use "people" for all of them. This is my choice. And yes, it is still my opinion that if people is still thinking about a possibility of this theory, Murray was trying to kill Michael but he escaped, they learned NOTHING from this hoax. If I need to say something personally to you, I see you making a step forward, you seem to start understanding the reasons of the hoax but then suddenly you make 10 steps backwards, forget about it all and start thinking that this is a short term plan and Michael escaped from Murray etc. Don't do this. Keep on moving forward not backward. Just a friendly advice from me to you.
Probably off topic: I think it was PureLove who wrote about the Roswell alien without the belly button. He also had a 'leg wound', which I remember my kids being most interested in, years ago when it was talked about on TV. Just an interesting coincidence!
One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
Pharmacies - if docs are the 'pushers'...the pharmacies are 'suppliers'. I have to go through a whole ID process to get some cough medicine at the pharmacy. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substance (or at least one that should raise eyebrows coming from a cardiologist) and sent it the doc's girlfriend's place lol. Whether they knowingly knew things were shady or whether they were just too stupid to follow up on the doc and the address....they are still guitly of not fulfilling their duty to society at minimum...an accomplice to a homicide at most.
Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Kofffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...
I'm not fully understanding why 'corpse' must be african american with vitiligo and nose job. If coroner is in on the hoax (which I believe) then they could've taken a pic of a white man's body. This is why you can't recognize the face. in most autopsy pics I have seen, the body is completely supine with spine aligned (that rhymed lol). In Mike's autopsy pic, the head is tilted to the right. If someone would take a pic for evidence, wouldn't they show the most important part of the body? THE FACE!!!
@Sarahli...good posts about a possible 'sting' on docs.
I also believe that 'doctors' could be a possible 'target' (IF there is a 'sting' or several going on). I've posted about why I think so before....but the main point being that there is widespread addiction to prescription drugs and a HUGE reason for this is through doctors' prescriptions. This could be personal to Mike (I'm sure he's known a few people who were addicted and some who may even have died due to prescription drugs)...and it would also be an FBI and/or DEA 'interest.'
One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
If doctors are a 'target'...then it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that pharmacies are as well. I wrote about this awhile back:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362980.html#msg362980Ok so Im_convinced, what exactly is your body theory at this point then? You've stated here recently what it is NOT (not terminal patient, not frozen), but I'm not clear on what exactly it IS.
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
I don't get it either...QuoteThey had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
Anyways, let's assume it was kept in a fridge, fine by me because the pathologist mentioned that too. A body will go smell rotten after two days, regardless of that fridge. It slows down, it does not stop. As soon as it is placed in a hot room, decomp/rigor sets in very quickly. And will show even more signs of death than a body that was recently frozen.
I still have not heard a plausible motive for a body either and with that refridgerated body, it still has to be a quite fresh corpse. What is the chance that a person would die around that day that looks so much like Mike that a coroner could be fooled. Mike WAS allegedly identified by his DL, which means that if the coroner is not in on it, the DL had to match the corpse. Oh, and besides looking like him, it needed to have vitiligo as well.
Sorry, but I rest my case. The coroner is in on it, there is no need for an autopsy on a random corpse. There is also no reason for a real corpse for the rest of the witnesses. You either don't get what I mean, or I don't get you, but this is going in circles. Show me one very good reason for a corpse and I will reconsider, but so far you did not give me one.
@bec-In this quote of mine above I stated that my comment to Souza is my theory of an already dead corpse/cadaver used in the hoax. IF you had clicked on the link that I provided in the quote you would have been taken to my theory and therefore would not have to ask me what my theory is. It is looking like you haven't clicked on the link.
I NEVER have stated that my theory included a terminally ill person. In the comment you quoted I said in my next comment I am reposting a comment I had made to you. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362783.html#msg362783
In that next comment is my theory of an already dead corpse/cadaver and I provided evidence of what is realistically possible to do to a corpse/cadaver to use it in the hoax. I provided links to reference material that comes from medical professionals in their fields of expertise. The pdf file from the Coroner Workshop has info on how they preserve a body in it's natural state. That is not embalming they do not embalm a corpse/cadaver that is going to be used for study. There is links to info of how the corpse/cadaver is kept refrigerated not frozen to prevent decomp and allows the corpse/cadaver to be used for up to 10 hrs a day and it can be stored up to 6 months if needed. I provide links to evidence so people can read the info and not just take it for granted that I am telling the truth.
Oh, and in addition to looking like Mike and having vitiligo, the body also had to have a slim body, around 50 years old, african american, with nose job done and died of acute propofol intoxication, alongside other features I probably missed.@Souza-I see that you did go to the link that has my theory in it because you qouted some of it but not the part that explains the rest of the way that they could have found a suitable corpse/cadaver. Here is the rest that was needed:
I believe a lot, but that would be too much of a coincidence.
They had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.With as many deaths that occur especially in LA there is alot of corpse/cadavers to choose from and it is possible to get one that resembles MJ, even his age and vitiligo. How would a coroner figure out someone's ethnicity IF it was not necessary to do so. Even though MJ is a black man his skin has appeared to be white for many years. The coroner is working on a corpse/cadaver that has been identified as MJ so he would not need to figure out whether the corpse/cadaver was in fact a black man. Those kind of tests go beyond a standard autopsy.
They had enough time to find a suitable corpse to match almost his known illness of vitiligo. They couldn't make everything perfect because some absent things from the body were needed to provide suspicion it wasn't MJ.
And they'd somehow have to figure out a legal loophole to display it in court as "Michael Jackson"'s body AND make it look enough like him to fool the entire viewing public.@bec-Legal loopholes need not to be worried about by me because I believe the FBI is helping MJ so therefore they have influence for that part. The sting also takes care of that. You definetly did not click the link that goes to my theory and IF you did you would have read the links that debunk the idea that an endotracheal tube can not be inserted into a corpse/cadaver. I will make it easy for you and include 2 links that go to info on being able to intubate a corpse/cadaver.
There's that matter of a endotracheal tube being inserted into a body in rigor as well. Thawed out=rigor. That's been proven long ago.
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/103/5/1205.full
It is possible to intubate a cadaver. Anesthesia students use cadavers to practice. I also have found evidence that suggests paramedics are trained to intubate on a combination of manikins and cadavers. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1746734
Quote from: ignisaeternus@ I'm convinced..I agree with this.QuoteAlso that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.Quoteignisaeternus wrote:
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.
All the contradictions are to confuse the enemy. Also IF anything was to happen to Michael now or after the BAM: WE the PUBLIC would be on the case and say HEY what is UP? I also believe this is part of the reason Michael wanted us (death hoax investigators and the non-hoax fans) to be INVOLVED so it gives him more protection. It also makes more people aware of WTF he has been saying for years. His "death" has our ATTENTION! :shock:
The more people looking into it is all the better.
I also don't get why some people find it hard to believe that Michael has INFLUENCE over key people. 8-) Given his HIStory with the police/armies of other nations/countries gaurding him during his concerts or outings. Think about all the traveling he has done, who he has met and been photographed with. 8-)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVRKUGv9iw[/youtube]
Side Note: Kenny did say something about equipment arriving. Maybe that was the fake ambulance? :?
There were also some concerns that I mentioned the concept of people being tested, and some failing the test; it was suggested that MJ would not do this. Well, what about Murray? Don’t you think many people have failed the same basic (prejudice) test—calling him a murderer, even before the preliminary hearing?? Don’t you think that MJ planned this test, to help expose the problems of prejudice and trial by media?
http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832 http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card! :lol:
Speaking of trying to debunk TS: one particular member kept dwelling on my statements about “few” in on the hoax—claiming that there were more than “few”, so this alone proves that TS is a fake see Update 4d, http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194. However, this is just another of many examples of critics not carefully reading what I said. The word “few” is always relative; and in comparison to all the stars in the sky, one thousand is a “few” stars. Taken in context, the “few” that I mentioned was in relation to this statement: “the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. ... only a relatively few people would need to be ‘in on it’” (in 4-36 & 4-38).
I never gave any specific number other than “more than three”; but if you read all my posts, you will find that I myself did mention several specifically involved with the hoax: MJ, family, Conrad, Kenny Ortega, coroner, hospital, FBI, TMZ, etc. And there are many others (friends/celebrities) who may not have a direct role, and yet understand that it’s a hoax (much like us).
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock:). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4 "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations." http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
Quote from: _Anna_Quote from: TS_comments
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.
1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)
2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)
3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
Hi Anna,
I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. When I said "got paid for it", I did not mean FBI agents. In this context, I am arguing against the idea that the FBI are not involved at all. If the FBI are not involved, then what implications are there for LAFD?
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
Quote from: MJhasSpokenI know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
Quote from: 2good2btrueSorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Sting.jpg)http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg325716.html#msg325716
It’s time for another level. 8-)
We are now at the most important level: who is the focus of The Sting? Keep in mind the possibility that more than one person or entity is the focus.
Most specifically, though, we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation (or part of the investigation). Some have already proposed this possibility, while others have summarily dismissed it. As always, please do not dismiss any theory until it has been thoroughly debunked. And whatever theory you personally believe, try to debunk your own theory; many hoax investigators are still not doing this.
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS :lol: ), etc.
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts.”
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
Although there are endless minor variations within these two main coherent theories, for the purpose of this level we are only examining two basic theories: the court is in on the hoax, or the court is not in on the hoax (other than the defense, and maybe a few other key people). For the sake of discussion, we can refer to these two theories as “hoax court” and “sting court”.
In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used.
Even though level three is still unresolved, yet we can and should start investigating level four (The Sting). Actually, level three and four are closely related—so much so that if we get a clear answer to level four, then level three will probably be easy to resolve (and vice versa).
To be more specific: if it’s hoax court, then there would be little if any need to use a corpse; but if it is sting court, then the corpse theory has a strong case. This would not only reduce the people who would need to be in on it, but it would also allow witnesses to testify truthfully in real court under oath (both witnesses who are in on it, and those who are not).
It has been suggested that this would constitute entrapment; but sting versus entrapment does not depend on using a dummy versus a corpse. It would be possible to use a dummy, and still qualify as entrapment, if the job was done so airtight that nobody could figure it out. On the other hand: it would be possible to use a corpse, and not qualify as entrapment, as long as there are plenty of clues and evidence that MJ is still alive. If the hoax forums can figure out that MJ is alive, when most of the members are not even professional investigators, then what excuse would the LA prosecution have for not figuring it out?
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose. Just bring into this thread discussion and evidence related to the focus of The Sting, and especially whether it is hoax court or sting court.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011)
Good eye! :lol:
Although some have said that this thread is just going in circles, and nothing accomplished, yet there has been some definite progress. There have been strong arguments presented both for and against the corpse theory (with neither side fully convincing the other). But this can be a good thing; we will get a lot more information during the hearings, and some may find it easier to keep the faith with the corpse theory.
On the other hand, I agree with bec and others, that the corpse theory is the least desirable—and would certainly be avoided if there was any other feasible way. Some are very strongly opposed to this idea, while others are not; and although the emotional argument holds a lot of weight on this forum (at least with some), it probably would not hold much if any weight in a court of law—which is the type of evidence we are looking for.
And yes, I did say the fewer the better, not the fewest the best; nevertheless, for the sake of the challenge if nothing else, let’s examine this question from the fewest possible concept (and this is NOT the actual case, but for the purpose of making the point).
What if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, such as a hospice patient on life support: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
But in that case, wouldn’t people realize that it was not MJ? Scientific analysis (such as dental records) would only be done at the coroner; so this is why at least one there would need to be in. As far as visual recognition by others (paramedics, hospital staff, etc): this might not be as big of a problem as you would think. There are several things that would tend to distract people’s attention from the recognition factor: the power of suggestion (others saying that it is MJ), reports of baldness and wigs, and recent plastic surgery, and not very many recent pictures in the news, and the intensity of an emergency situation with a high profile VIP, and other distractions such as the fire alarm, etc (distractions created by the few who are in on it).
We do know that This Scenario at least could have happened with the paramedics, since they reported not recognizing MJ. And if it could happen with the paramedics, then why not at the hospital also? In reality, we know that more are in on it than just Murray and the coroner; nevertheless, this should help to clarify which of the options would require the least number of people to be in on it. Any of the other options (MJ himself, an MJ living double, a dummy, or nothing) would require that ALL of the paramedics be in on it, as well as several at the hospital.
So again, if anyone can debunk the corpse theory, please do. But not with emotional reactions please, only documented evidence. And there were a couple of good comments on the life support patient idea: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=175#p322797 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p323766
See also a similar but slightly different theory: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p324064 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=400#p324431 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=550#p325518
Warning this is a long post.
I have given more than one reason why a corpse/cadaver would be needed and for who. My list could never get specific and name names because there is most likely never going to be full disclosure of who the targets are/were and who they caught with the sting. I pointed out why the pics needed to be shown and that was because of the need for a proof of death for those who may still be looking to take MJ out. The same way we figured out MJ is still alive and we have posted our evidence here is also a way that MJ's enemies could have easily found out and have been reading here.
That is not to say that what we are doing is exposing MJ to danger because as difficult as it is to prove to non-believers about the hoax and as difficult as it is for me to prove to others my theories, it will be difficult for his enemies to believe because there is SO much CONtroversy and CONtradictions. Notice CON is in both words. This is a great CON. Showing that pic to the public is an eye catching SHOCK and makes people question why. It also is a high drama tactic.
That thing about TS saying people are being tested and his explanation is below in regards to Murray, I am adding some points onto that. I have sat in chat everyday watching the trial, reading the chat and what I have noticed is alot of pre-judge-ish comments regarding the witnesses looks.
Alot of comments are about the DA being goodlooking, the Dr. dude in the yellow tie being handsome, and I think that is being pre-judge-ish towards those people and some are totally dismissing ideas and info from these people who are not very goodlooking. The trial isn't over and comments are being made without having the whole picture to think about.
I also want to point out that we are still being tested and as TS said the best way to test people is when they don't know because they act more natural. I made a comment in chat asking IF anyone ever thought that MJ or his fam could be reading here and even participating under anons or screen names to test us.
I believe MJ and his fam would antagonize us to see how we react. Then you can also add in the fact that Front made a post about embracing non-believers. Seems like I wasn't the only one who took notice at the recent behavior of believers. I even gave an example of how I was treated by believers in chat when they thought I was from another planet. 8-) Of course this is my opinion and not fact.
Another thing about being tested in your natural state is the employees of certain official departments and they will be tested on their competence with out them knowing it. Ed Winters was at the house with E. Fleaks and so was Detective Smith. Lets say Ed Winters is testing her for competence, this is very real and happens alot in certain fields of professions. Some people get sloppy over time or burned out in certain jobs and they have to be tested to prevent bad things from happening. This is no different than businesses using secret shoppers to test customer service. Something to think about when deciding who are the key people involved in certain positions and why they are not testifying. ;) I am posting comments as reminders on some of the topics that are being talked about now.
TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314346.html#msg314346 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314346.html#msg314346)Quote from: ignisaeternus@ I'm convinced..I agree with this.QuoteAlso that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.Quoteignisaeternus wrote:
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.
All the contradictions are to confuse the enemy. Also IF anything was to happen to Michael now or after the BAM: WE the PUBLIC would be on the case and say HEY what is UP? I also believe this is part of the reason Michael wanted us (death hoax investigators and the non-hoax fans) to be INVOLVED so it gives him more protection. It also makes more people aware of WTF he has been saying for years. His "death" has our ATTENTION! :shock:
The more people looking into it is all the better.
I also don't get why some people find it hard to believe that Michael has INFLUENCE over key people. 8-) Given his HIStory with the police/armies of other nations/countries gaurding him during his concerts or outings. Think about all the traveling he has done, who he has met and been photographed with. 8-)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVRKUGv9iw[/youtube]
Side Note: Kenny did say something about equipment arriving. Maybe that was the fake ambulance? :?
Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14058.msg234443.html#msg234443 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14058.msg234443.html#msg234443)QuoteThere were also some concerns that I mentioned the concept of people being tested, and some failing the test; it was suggested that MJ would not do this. Well, what about Murray? Don’t you think many people have failed the same basic (prejudice) test—calling him a murderer, even before the preliminary hearing?? Don’t you think that MJ planned this test, to help expose the problems of prejudice and trial by media?
http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832 (http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832) http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841 (http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841)
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card! :lol:
Speaking of trying to debunk TS: one particular member kept dwelling on my statements about “few” in on the hoax—claiming that there were more than “few”, so this alone proves that TS is a fake see Update 4d, http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194 (http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194). However, this is just another of many examples of critics not carefully reading what I said. The word “few” is always relative; and in comparison to all the stars in the sky, one thousand is a “few” stars. Taken in context, the “few” that I mentioned was in relation to this statement: “the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. ... only a relatively few people would need to be ‘in on it’” (in 4-36 & 4-38).
I never gave any specific number other than “more than three”; but if you read all my posts, you will find that I myself did mention several specifically involved with the hoax: MJ, family, Conrad, Kenny Ortega, coroner, hospital, FBI, TMZ, etc. And there are many others (friends/celebrities) who may not have a direct role, and yet understand that it’s a hoax (much like us).
TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314370.html#msg314370 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314370.html#msg314370)
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php).
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi)
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4) "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations." http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314609.html#msg314609 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314609.html#msg314609)Quote from: _Anna_Quote from: TS_comments
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.
1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)
2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)
3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
Hi Anna,
I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. When I said "got paid for it", I did not mean FBI agents. In this context, I am arguing against the idea that the FBI are not involved at all. If the FBI are not involved, then what implications are there for LAFD?
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314614.html#msg314614 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314614.html#msg314614)Quote from: MJhasSpokenI know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314618.html#msg314618 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314618.html#msg314618)Quote from: 2good2btrueSorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME)
TIAI May 1
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.msg327641.html#msg327641 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.msg327641.html#msg327641)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Sting.jpg)
It’s time for another level. 8-)
We are now at the most important level: who is the focus of The Sting? Keep in mind the possibility that more than one person or entity is the focus.
Most specifically, though, we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation (or part of the investigation). Some have already proposed this possibility, while others have summarily dismissed it. As always, please do not dismiss any theory until it has been thoroughly debunked. And whatever theory you personally believe, try to debunk your own theory; many hoax investigators are still not doing this.
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS :lol: ), etc.
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts.”
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
Although there are endless minor variations within these two main coherent theories, for the purpose of this level we are only examining two basic theories: the court is in on the hoax, or the court is not in on the hoax (other than the defense, and maybe a few other key people). For the sake of discussion, we can refer to these two theories as “hoax court” and “sting court”.
In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used.
Even though level three is still unresolved, yet we can and should start investigating level four (The Sting). Actually, level three and four are closely related—so much so that if we get a clear answer to level four, then level three will probably be easy to resolve (and vice versa).
To be more specific: if it’s hoax court, then there would be little if any need to use a corpse; but if it is sting court, then the corpse theory has a strong case. This would not only reduce the people who would need to be in on it, but it would also allow witnesses to testify truthfully in real court under oath (both witnesses who are in on it, and those who are not).
It has been suggested that this would constitute entrapment; but sting versus entrapment does not depend on using a dummy versus a corpse. It would be possible to use a dummy, and still qualify as entrapment, if the job was done so airtight that nobody could figure it out. On the other hand: it would be possible to use a corpse, and not qualify as entrapment, as long as there are plenty of clues and evidence that MJ is still alive. If the hoax forums can figure out that MJ is alive, when most of the members are not even professional investigators, then what excuse would the LA prosecution have for not figuring it out?
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose. Just bring into this thread discussion and evidence related to the focus of The Sting, and especially whether it is hoax court or sting court.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg325716.html#msg325716 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg325716.html#msg325716)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011)
Good eye! :lol:
Although some have said that this thread is just going in circles, and nothing accomplished, yet there has been some definite progress. There have been strong arguments presented both for and against the corpse theory (with neither side fully convincing the other). But this can be a good thing; we will get a lot more information during the hearings, and some may find it easier to keep the faith with the corpse theory.
On the other hand, I agree with bec and others, that the corpse theory is the least desirable—and would certainly be avoided if there was any other feasible way. Some are very strongly opposed to this idea, while others are not; and although the emotional argument holds a lot of weight on this forum (at least with some), it probably would not hold much if any weight in a court of law—which is the type of evidence we are looking for.
And yes, I did say the fewer the better, not the fewest the best; nevertheless, for the sake of the challenge if nothing else, let’s examine this question from the fewest possible concept (and this is NOT the actual case, but for the purpose of making the point).
What if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, such as a hospice patient on life support: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
But in that case, wouldn’t people realize that it was not MJ? Scientific analysis (such as dental records) would only be done at the coroner; so this is why at least one there would need to be in. As far as visual recognition by others (paramedics, hospital staff, etc): this might not be as big of a problem as you would think. There are several things that would tend to distract people’s attention from the recognition factor: the power of suggestion (others saying that it is MJ), reports of baldness and wigs, and recent plastic surgery, and not very many recent pictures in the news, and the intensity of an emergency situation with a high profile VIP, and other distractions such as the fire alarm, etc (distractions created by the few who are in on it).
We do know that This Scenario at least could have happened with the paramedics, since they reported not recognizing MJ. And if it could happen with the paramedics, then why not at the hospital also? In reality, we know that more are in on it than just Murray and the coroner; nevertheless, this should help to clarify which of the options would require the least number of people to be in on it. Any of the other options (MJ himself, an MJ living double, a dummy, or nothing) would require that ALL of the paramedics be in on it, as well as several at the hospital.
So again, if anyone can debunk the corpse theory, please do. But not with emotional reactions please, only documented evidence. And there were a couple of good comments on the life support patient idea: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=175#p322797 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=175#p322797) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p323766 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p323766)
See also a similar but slightly different theory: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p324064 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p324064) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=400#p324431 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=400#p324431) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=550#p325518 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=550#p325518)
crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
What if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, SUCH AS A HOSPICE PATIENT ON LIFE SUPPORT: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
[dot]Palliative sedation[/dot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative_sedation
In medicine, specifically in end-of-life care, palliative sedation (also known as terminal sedation, continuous deep sedation, or sedation for intractable distress in the dying/of a dying patient) is the palliative practice of relieving distress in a terminally ill person in the last hours or days of a dying patient's life, usually by means of a continuous intravenous or subcutaneous infusion of a sedative drug. This is an option of last resort for patients whose symptoms cannot be controlled by any other means. This should be differentiated from euthanasia as the goal of palliative sedation is to control symptoms through sedation but not shorten the patient's life, while in euthanasia the goal is to shorten life to cease suffering.
[dot]Drugs used[/dot]
A typical drug is midazolam, a short acting benzodiazepine. Opioids such as morphine are not used as the primary medicine since they are not effective sedative medications compared to benzodiazepines. However, if a patient was already on an opioid for pain relief, this is continued for pain relief while sedation is achieved. Other medications to be considered include haloperidol, chlorpromazine, pentobarbital, propofol or phenobarbital.
At the end of life sedation is only used if the patient perceives their distress to be unbearable, and there are no other means of relieving that distress.
[/size]
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbang
Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
I really think that is the point...we can't prove anything.....and maybe that is just the way Michael planned it to be???
"It's all going to come out.....it's all going to unfold" just as Jermaine told us.
We have been here together for such a long time, and for a reason, trying to figure this all out....we may not agree on the how or the why or the what....but we all know that Michael Jackson is not dead.
At the end of this I am sure we will know the truth of the how, the why and the what......but at the end of the day we have heard and observed and learned and been enlightened...we will know the truth eventually....the truth will prevail.
Well put Purelove. This is what we were all agreeing with. Nobody [no body] haha...is giving up, just stopping ourselves from running the same circles constantly, a bit like a dog on a chain, covering that same ground. But if he get's tired of the activity and sits down and lifts his head to watch, the vista is much enlarged. Sorry for likening us to dogs on a chain, but with the court case, working full time and life in general, there is not much time left for running over the same old ground constantly at the moment. I just want to assure people no one mean't we are giving up.....maybe resting more, conserving strength... and WATCHING.Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
I really think that is the point...we can't prove anything.....and maybe that is just the way Michael planned it to be???
"It's all going to come out.....it's all going to unfold" just as Jermaine told us.
We have been here together for such a long time, and for a reason, trying to figure this all out....we may not agree on the how or the why or the what....but we all know that Michael Jackson is not dead.
At the end of this I am sure we will know the truth of the how, the why and the what......but at the end of the day we have heard and observed and learned and been enlightened...we will know the truth eventually....the truth will prevail.
Exactly. And that is the reason why I call this as a PERFECT plan created by a PERFECTIONIST! He gave us tons of things but still we can not prove he is alive or we can not prove this is a sting or a real body was used and it goes on... On one hand we have LOTS of things that proves he is alive but on the other hand we have NOTHING that proves he is alive ... The biggest contradiction is the hoax itself. This is a very long thought, hard work, imagination, creation plan. That is the reason why I say this hoax was planned for decades. It is so perfect. He let us know that he is alive but we can not prove it to anyone. Because if it could be proved, everyone would be finding out about it and it would lose all its magic and all the plan would be destroyed. And till the end the mystery will not be unfold. This is how magic works. And I'm not so sure if our Magician is going to tell ALL of his secrets after the show ends. Maybe some of them but not all of them. We'll see. ;)
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
Wow, I have to say that was THE rudest think I've read on here Bec! WHAT I wrote is I USED to think that in the beginning. I also said I don't believe it anymore.There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
That is not to say that what we are doing is exposing MJ to danger because as difficult as it is to prove to non-believers about the hoax and as difficult as it is for me to prove to others my theories,I am thinking some people may have misunderstood this statement above that I made. My saying that it is difficult for me to prove my theories to others IS not meant to say I am having a difficult time on my side. It IS to say that no matter how much evidence I provide for my theories some people just won't except it. That is where the difficult part comes from, people not believing.
@Im_convinced
You have the most difficult theory to prove but really you're doing a great job. /bravo/
I was thinking about something in regards to the Sting court....what if the Hoax court is there to serve the purpose of demonstrating that in 2005 it was okay for people in the judicial system to accept fake evidences, false testimonies, etc? It would put the sting on another level/perspective but it is still there and both are possible, Hoax and Sting together....just a thought.
QuoteSouza wrote:
I believe the trial is staged, since there never was a dead Michael Jackson, so Murray could never be charged with manslaughter. It may look real for those attending, but it simply can't be real because you need a dead MICHAEL JACKSON. If this would be a real trial based on a corpse called 'John Doe', Murray would have been charged for killing 'John Doe'. So there is no need for people to be nervous, no one is going to jail.
An Innocent Man Facing Execution in Georgia
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=17366
Innocence Project/Help End Wrongful Convictionshttp://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=17415
Aug-05-2010 06:57
Evidence Shows Oregon Inmate Was Falsely Convicted
Tim King Salem-News.com
(http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/august022010/kimble.jpg)QuoteDNA clears African-American inmate serving 19-year sentence for sex abuse.Keep reading here:
(SALEM, Ore.) - Documents in the case of an African-American man serving a 19-year sentence for sex crimes against a child, spell out what may be one of Oregon's more significant miscarriages of justice.
38-year old Terrence Kimble's story is very hard to believe, yet it is a fact that this man has had to live with for almost ten years while incarcerated in the Oregon State Penitentiary in Salem. From the beginning of his ordeal, Kimble has been denied a lie detector test. At this point the whole thing defies explanation, because the DNA didn't match.
"I will continue to fight for my freedom no matter how much time I get or no matter how long it takes. I feel like a political prisoner here in Eugene, Oregon..."
- Terrence Kimble's statement at trial
How a prosecutor in Lane County, Oregon was able to create a case with no witnesses, a denial of the crime that began with the victim and included an aunt and uncle, who is a psychologist; blood relatives of the girl, is perplexing.
Add to that an emergency room doctor's examination of the alleged 13-year old victim concluding that the girl had not engaged in any sexual activity, and the fact that she was in the presence of family members exhibiting normal behavior at the time of the alleged occurrence, and the fact that a man was sent to prison for 19 years becomes all the more unbelievable, yet it happened, and for Terrence Kimble, it continues every day of his life. The crime Kimble is incarcerated for places him under the worst imaginable conditions.
Questions now surround instructions provided by the judge in the case, as well as possible motives of the prosecutor, who was obviously very intense in his desire to convict Kimble - who never wavered from his position as that of an innocent man - of first-degree Rape.
Lorna Jackson, aunt of the alleged victim, offered this testimony at trial:
Q: Prior to that instance when you saw her on that Friday the 8th, was there anything about her demeanor or her appearance that alerted you that something wrong had happened?
A: No. No. There was nothing.
Ezekiel Jackson, an Industrial Psychologist, is the uncle of Tracy Hoffman. Hoffman is the mother of the alleged victim, Danielle McDaniel, who was 13 at the time and one of three siblings. Ezekiel Jackson and his wife Lorna Jackson were the reason Kimble and Hoffman were in Oregon with their children.
Ezekiel Jackson testified:
Q: At some point in time you learned that there was some trouble with Terrence and one of the daughters, some allegations that were made. Is that right?
A: When? What allegations?
Q: Danielle made an allegation against Mr. Kimble.
A: Such as?
Q: That he had sexually abused her.
A: It didn't happen.
Q: Mr. Jackson, I may have missed -- I may have misunderstood what you said. But are you saying that this couldn't have happened because Danielle was with you all day when it was supposed to have happened?
A: No. Couldn't have happened because Danielle, myself and Tracy talked about this incident and it was stated that it did not happen.
This discussion, according to Mr. Jackson, took place in front of Eugene Police officers there to investigate the allegation.
Kimble said in court, "I can't understand how I was found guilty of sex crimes with no physical or solid evidence. I was found guilty on hearsay."
"From just another African-American who has been railroaded by Lane County, Oregon, no matter how much time I'm sentenced to serve I'm going to continued to maintain my innocence for the crime for which I was found guilty and the crimes I was also accused of. I will continue to fight for my freedom no matter how much time I get or no matter how long it takes. I feel like a political prisoner here in Eugene, Oregon."
Judge Karsten Rasmussen, who was a personal injury lawyer prior to becoming a judge, said: "Mr. Kimble, the jury found what it found, and I confess to you that I would have found you guilty of the more serious crimes in all probability. I found the testimony of the victim in this case, a now 14-year old African-American girl, to be some of the most compelling testimony that I've ever heard in the 20 years or so I've been in this business. I found her completely and totally believable."
Yet the testimony seems simply to not exist.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august052010/kimble-innocent-tk.php
DNA frees Texas man imprisoned for 27 years
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/04/30/us-usa-exoneration-dna-idUSN2938136220080430QuoteDALLAS | Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:26pm EDTThe list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.
DALLAS (Reuters) - A man walked out of a Dallas court on Tuesday after DNA testing overturned his conviction over 27 years ago for the murder and rape of his girlfriend, local media reported.
James Woodard, 55, spent more time in prison than any other wrongfully convicted inmate in U.S. history who was subsequently freed by DNA testing, local media reported.
He was also the eighteenth person freed in Dallas County based on a post-conviction DNA analysis, according to the Innocence Project, a New York-based legal center that specializes in righting grave miscarriages of justice.
That is more than any other U.S. county, highlighting problems in the local justice system that include what critics have said is a history of racism and racial profiling.
Woodward is a black male -- the typical profile of those wrongfully sent to prison in Dallas and elsewhere in the United States.
"We've reached a tipping point on wrongful convictions in Texas. Nobody can seriously doubt that there's a problem," the Innocence project quoted Texas State Sen. Rodney Ellis as saying on Tuesday.
Ellis said on Tuesday a summit would be held in the state capitol of Austin on May 8 to determine the causes of wrongful convictions in Texas and identify reforms that can prevent them.
Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:
It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.
The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.QuoteSouza wrote:The issue of falsified evidence would not apply for MJ and the FBI in a sting operation where lies/deception are allowed. It does apply to the other side that is investigating this case and the DA. They are the ones who are running with the false evidence and trying to prosecute an innocent man based on that fake evidence. That shows their flaws and corruption.
A dead body might be seen as false evidence and therefore entrapment. If there is only the slightest chance that that is true, or could be seen that way in a court of law...
I am not saying that the corpse was a hospice patient but realistically with out the numerology; the stories presented to us about MJ being sick follow the symptoms of a end of life patient (signs that death may be near). The kind of drugs listed for symptom management are some of the drugs found at the house and also the drugs (alleged) MJ was taking at Dr. Klien’s office (morphine/demerol). What was found at the death scene (found on the autopsy report in the 3A papers by E. Fleaks) midazolam, propofol both in an injectable form. These are used in terminal sedation.
This could be explained as the hospice patient could no longer swallow pills to relieve symptoms so the injectable drug was needed. I could also say that those were in injectable form because the body was a dead/cadaver and injecting the drugs found in his system would be easier than trying to make a corpse force swallow or a force drink anything. A better option to this being a hospice patient who is unreliable to die at the exact time needed for the numorology to work is an already dead cadaver staged to look like a hospice patient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_sedationQuoteIn medicine, specifically in end-of-life care, palliative sedation (also known as terminal sedation, continuous deep sedation, or sedation for intractable distress in the dying/of a dying patient) is the palliative practice of relieving distress in a terminally ill person in the last hours or days of a dying patient's life, usually by means of a continuous intravenous or subcutaneous infusion of a sedative drug. This is an option of last resort for patients whose symptoms cannot be controlled by any other means. This should be differentiated from euthanasia as the goal of palliative sedation is to control symptoms through sedation but not shorten the patient's life, while in euthanasia the goal is to shorten life to cease symptoms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_sedation#Drugs_usedQuoteA typical drug is midazolam, a short acting benzodiazepine. Opioids such as morphine are not used as the primary medicine since they are not effective sedative medications compared to benzodiazepines. However, if a patient was already on an opioid for pain relief, this is continued for pain relief while sedation is achieved. Other medications to be considered include haloperidol, chlorpromazine, pentobarbital, propofol or phenobarbitalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_life_care#Care_in_the_final_days_and_hours_of_lifeQuoteCare in the final days and hours of life
Signs that death may be near
The U.S. Government National Cancer Institute advises that the presence of some of the following signs may indicate that death is approaching:
Drowsiness, increased sleep, and/or unresponsiveness (caused by changes in the patient's metabolism).
Confusion about time, place, and/or identity of loved ones; restlessness; visions of people and places that are not present; pulling at bed linens or clothing (caused in part by changes in the patient's metabolism).
Decreased socialization and withdrawal (caused by decreased oxygen to the brain, decreased blood flow, and mental preparation for dying).
Decreased need for food and fluids, and loss of appetite (caused by the body's need to conserve energy and its decreasing ability to use food and fluids properly).
Loss of bladder or bowel control (caused by the relaxing of muscles in the pelvic area).
Darkened urine or decreased amount of urine (caused by slowing of kidney function and/or decreased fluid intake).
Skin becoming cool to the touch, particularly the hands and feet; skin may become bluish in color, especially on the underside of the body (caused by decreased circulation to the extremities).
Rattling or gurgling sounds while breathing, which may be loud; breathing that is irregular and shallow; decreased number of breaths per minute; breathing that alternates between rapid and slow (caused by congestion from decreased fluid consumption, a buildup of waste products in the body, and/or a decrease in circulation to the organs).
Turning of the head toward a light source (caused by decreasing vision).
Increased difficulty controlling pain (caused by progression of the disease).
Involuntary movements (called myoclonus), changes in heart rate, and loss of reflexes in the legs and arms are additional signs that the end of life is near.QuoteSymptom management
The following are some of the most common potential problems which can arise in the last days and hours of a patient's life:
Pain -Suffering from uncontrolled pain is a significant fear of those at end of life.
Typically controlled using morphine or diamorphine; or other opioids.
Agitation
Delirium, terminal anguish, restlessness (e.g. thrashing, plucking, or twitching). Typically controlled using midazolam, or other benzodiazepines. Symptoms may also sometimes be alleviated by rehydration, which may reduce the effects of some toxic drug metabolites.
Respiratory Tract Secretions
Saliva and other fluids can accumulate in the oropharynx and upper airways when patients become too weak to clear their throats, leading to a characteristic gurgling or rattle-like sound ("death rattle"). Whilst apparently not painful for the patient, the association of the symptom with impending death can create fear and uncertainty for those at the bedside. The secretions may be controlled using drugs such as scopolamine (hyoscine), glycopyrronium, or atropine. Rattle may not be controllable if caused by deeper fluid accumulation in the bronchi or the lungs, such as occurs with pneumonia or some tumours.
Nausea and vomiting
Typically controlled using cyclizine; or other anti-emetics.
Dyspnoea (breathlessness)
Typically controlled using morphine or diamorphine
Typical care plans, such as those based on the Liverpool Care Pathway for dying patients, will pre-authorise staff to give subcutaneous injections to address such symptoms as soon as they are needed, without needing to take time to seek further authorisation. Such injections are usually the preferred means of delivery, as it may become difficult for patients to swallow or to take pills orally. If repeated medication is needed, a syringe driver (called an infusion pump in the US) is likely to be used, to deliver a steady low dose of medication.
Other symptoms which may occur, and may be mitigable to some extent, include cough, fatigue, fever, and in some cases haemorrhage
TS said:QuoteWhat if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, SUCH AS A HOSPICE PATIENT ON LIFE SUPPORT: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
In regards to the theory of the terminally ill patient I thought it would be good to know if Propofol is a substance that can be given in such cases because if it wasn't the case then it would be an argument that could be used to more easily rule out this theory. Now apparently Propofol can be used for such patients. To make it simple here's what wikipedia has to say about it:Quote[dot]Palliative sedation[/dot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative_sedation
In medicine, specifically in end-of-life care, palliative sedation (also known as terminal sedation, continuous deep sedation, or sedation for intractable distress in the dying/of a dying patient) is the palliative practice of relieving distress in a terminally ill person in the last hours or days of a dying patient's life, usually by means of a continuous intravenous or subcutaneous infusion of a sedative drug. This is an option of last resort for patients whose symptoms cannot be controlled by any other means. This should be differentiated from euthanasia as the goal of palliative sedation is to control symptoms through sedation but not shorten the patient's life, while in euthanasia the goal is to shorten life to cease suffering.
[dot]Drugs used[/dot]
A typical drug is midazolam, a short acting benzodiazepine. Opioids such as morphine are not used as the primary medicine since they are not effective sedative medications compared to benzodiazepines. However, if a patient was already on an opioid for pain relief, this is continued for pain relief while sedation is achieved. Other medications to be considered include haloperidol, chlorpromazine, pentobarbital, propofol or phenobarbital.
At the end of life sedation is only used if the patient perceives their distress to be unbearable, and there are no other means of relieving that distress.
[/size]
There are a lot of studies quite complicated to read but so far the main thing that comes back about it is relatively well explained in this wiki article. Propofol is one of the drugs that can be used in such cases.
I also came across this story of a terminal ill patient with severe pains and distress: http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/5/1/53.full it is explained how Propofol has been used as a last resort because while the other drugs were not working, Propofol was very effective.
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I see that some of you want to give up. Please everyone, I really think it's not time to give up. You ALL have done an amazing job and without your perseverance and valuable inputs we never would have gone this far! I appreciate all of your posts and theories and this is because of that, that I come back here to read and inspire myself. TEAM WORK. I really think that this is the time to put everything together and continue to try to SEE and PERCEIVE until the much anticipated Victory. It's really worth it and for Michael.
/bravo/ to all of you amazing investigators!
ps: thank you BeTheChange for your comment. I would agree with you about a possible sting towards Pharmacies.
@Sarahli...good posts about a possible 'sting' on docs.
I also believe that 'doctors' could be a possible 'target' (IF there is a 'sting' or several going on). I've posted about why I think so before....but the main point being that there is widespread addiction to prescription drugs and a HUGE reason for this is through doctors' prescriptions. This could be personal to Mike (I'm sure he's known a few people who were addicted and some who may even have died due to prescription drugs)...and it would also be an FBI and/or DEA 'interest.'
One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
If doctors are a 'target'...then it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that pharmacies are as well. I wrote about this awhile back:
Pharmacies - if docs are the 'pushers'...the pharmacies are 'suppliers'. I have to go through a whole ID process to get some cough medicine at the pharmacy. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substance (or at least one that should raise eyebrows coming from a cardiologist) and sent it the doc's girlfriend's place lol. Whether they knowingly knew things were shady or whether they were just too stupid to follow up on the doc and the address....they are still guitly of not fulfilling their duty to society at minimum...an accomplice to a homicide at most.
We've seen a few things come up in court that would support a possible 'sting' on doctors. Likewise, there have been 2 pharmacies mentioned in court that could also support them being a 'target' as well (Applied Pharmacy - Lopez's testimony...and Mickey's Finn Pharmacy was also mentioned but not elaborated on...but we did learn that there is a 'link' between this pharmacy and Klein).
For all we know, the FBI/DEA could've been 'surveilling' all the docs and pharmacies mentioned in the trial prior to 2009...and I tend to believe the 'foundation' of this sting (if there is one) started many years ago. If true, then I also think that Murray (acting under the direction of the FBI) ordered all that propofol from Applied simply to see if he could and if they would ship it to wherever he wanted. That may have been the 'bait'....and if true, then Applied fell for it hook, line and sinker. It will be interesting to learn more about Mickey's Finn Pharmacy and their 'role' in all this...especially their connection to Klein. Perhaps we will once things start to unravel.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Could the Sting be also against some doctors that have "treated" Michael? I say that because I was wondering again about what Michael is trying to show us with the trial. For the moment I see that Murray is in very bad waters, I don't see how it is possible to not find him guilty. He made colossal "mistakes", so he is responsible. With that in mind it is possible that one of the purposes of this trial could be not to show us that an innocent man can be found guilty but the exact opposite? That he is in fact guilty of gross negligence. This would then fit in with the sting theory to expose the doctor/doctors who did this to Michael.I wanted to add some more thoughts to this theory. Concerning the autopsy picture my opinion is that a dummy was used, like the one for the ambulance picture with bits of Photoshop magic of course. Dummies can be flexible which fits with what La Toya said about being able to bend the body and which could explain the body moving in the helicopter ride lol. It's also possible to close/open the eyes of a dummy, hence why they're closed in the ambulance and why Jermaine has been able to open them at the hospital.
I am thinking of the pictures we've been shown for example, maybe that some of them represent the truth of past events? And Michael is trying to show us what happened to him years ago like a sort of documentary. It's a kind of re-enactment of HIStory.
Coming back to the Sting, it could very well be directed at those doctors. God, they should feel threatened right now after having seen these pictures. :evil:
Several doctors have been mentioned already during the trial, and Arnold Klein is one of them. What makes me think the Sting could be directed at him for example is that he was Michael's main doctor and is NOT on the witness list??? Why? It does not make any sense at all given the "theme" discussed in the trial. So I'm of the opinion that this fact, to not have included Klein in the witness list, is a BIG hint as to whom the sting is directed at. Remember as well the statements that surrounded Klein after Michael's "death"; the gay garbage and the children conception. I will (safely?) assume that Michael would never include this in the Hoax. And don't forget Back's post about Klein that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Of course it would make the FBI involved.
I just want to make clear that in this theory Murray is in on it, helping Michael actually BUT he is playing, portraying doctor(s) who may have acted in the same way with Michael. So Murray is actually a part of the sting and why not an FBI agent himself. Who knows.
Concerning the FBI I only see all this being possible with them being involved (key people in key places). I don't think it's possible to fake your death on such a grand scale without their help. Of course they would get involved only if a sting operation is attached to the Hoax, they wouldn't if it was just for a reality movie. Also it would make it easier for the doctors, coroner et al to be involved because they would just cooperate without asking too much questions. So my opinion is that most of the doctors and the coroner are in on it.
Uploaded by StargazerMJ11 on Dec 30, 2010http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUB_z3vOLk&feature=related
The quality isn't very good but it was the best I could do. Watch it with your hoax head on. The Fame game was on after this & after 2 hrs of 'how to be famous' it ended with Michaels thriller laugh - hillarious!!! Happy New Year everyone xxx
The Secret World of Dr. Arnold Kleinhttp://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358741.html#msg358741
Aug 25, 2011 8:21 PM EDT
Hollywood’s "dermatologist to the stars" has been caught up in the investigation of Michael Jackson’s death. But he may have some tough new questions to answer thanks to a litigious battle he launched against his former office manager and former accountant.
I wrote about the issues I felt were a part of this sting operation back in the thread TIAI April 11 but here it is again since it does apply here regarding some of the WHO the focus of the sting is. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.phpf=145&t=18688&p=322491#p322491QuoteThe way things are now Propofol is an uncontrolled drug and can be obtained very easily by a Dr. who has a liscense and also by a person with a script. The pharmacy in Nevada was distributing Propofol to Murray as if it was no big deal. That is why that pharmacy is now shut down.
The events that have happened since MJ died because of Propofol have been incredible. MJ used himself as bait for a sting operation that far out weighs a cadaver being used in the process. He also used Propofol as the drug of choice so that it would cause great attention to that drug. The Propofol from a manufacture making it was shown to have tainted lot numbers. The manufactures have stopped making it here in the USA. There is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.QuoteI believe that one part of the sting operation deals with the drug problems in Hollywood and the over prescribing of meds by the doctors. I also believe it has to do with FDA issues and the manufactors of Propofol. Big pharmaceuticals manufactors do not care what goes into the drugs or the side effects as long as they make a profit. Tainted medicines are resold all the time in order to dump them and make a profit.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-14/health/jackson.drug.recall_1_generic-version-propofol-lot-number?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-15/health/propofol.dea.jackson_1_diprivan-propofol-drug?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/11/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-las-vegas/
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/propofol-manufacturer-in-michael-jackson-hospira-pharmacy/
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugShortages/ucm209227.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10769777
http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=31878
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/propofol/propofol_law.shtml
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2009/fr0723.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959QuoteThere is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.
http://www.dipity.com/timeline/Propofol-Recall
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
I decided to call a pathologist today. I ended up with a very helpful doctor who is a clinical pathologist. This means his profession is not really to cut into corpses (he is not a coroner or forensic pathologist) but he investigates organs and tissues of living people. However, he does perform autopsies sometimes as well, but that is around 2-3% of his work. I called and told him I was doing research because I am writing a medical thriller and had some questions so i could form a factual and accurate murder plot. He was very helpful and asked me if I could let him know when my book will be published... poor guy. However, I got some very interesting information from him about dead people, freezing them and embalming them. Here is the info he gave me in no particular order:
Freezing a body and then melting it and heating it up is possible and it will indeed make a body look fresh. This however requires a quick freeze (professional) and immediately after death. The freeze will stop the decomposition of the body. From the outside, you will not see that the body isn't fresh. So far it seems that the EMT's. the doctors and the coroner could have been fooled with a long-dead corpse. HOWEVER... the moment the body is at a room temperature, rigor mortis and decomp will start and at a room that is heated up like that, it will go very rapidly, most definitely when the body is thin. If we believe that the EMT's found the body with the eyes open, we can be sure that there was no way that the doctors would be able to close the eyes after pronouncing him dead 2 hours later. And according to the official story we have been fed, they did because Jermaine tells us in his book that he opened one of the eyes when he went to see the body in the hospital. Besides that, it is standard procedure.
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before. When you freeze a corpse, your tissue -that contains water- will crystalize. He called it 'freezing artifacts' (literally translated from Dutch). Standard procedure with every autopsy performed is making slices of all the organs and putting those slices under a microscope. If tissue has been frozen before, the slices of the tissue will show tiny 'holes' because the crystals damage the tissue. By all means, the autopsy report will state that certain 'freeze artifacts' are present in the tissue and it will also state that itt was most likely caused by freezing.
What they can also see under the microscope, is if the patient has been ill before death. As he explained it to me, the organs that would have been affected by the illness, would show deformation of the cells. The coroner would definitely see if the patient was terminally ill before death.
He also said that in case of a heart attack, they will notice inflammation of the heart muscle under the microscope. I didn't dare to ask if that would be the same with a cardiac arrest, because I was afraid I would give myself away, hahaha. Maybe one of the medical experts here will know that. But as far as I know, the heart did not show any signs of inflammation in the AR, but maybe I overlooked something.
Latsly, since I had the feeling the doktor enjoyed my crazy questions, I also decided to ask about embalming, to make sure La Toya is full of shit in her book about the body looking stunning after 10 weeks.
He explained that they embalmed the people that were used by the students for research and class. They use a 4% formaldehyde and use a lot to make sure the whole body is fixed and that the decomp will stop. But to make sure the corpse will not dry out and 'schrink', they also put it in a bath of formaldehyde. If you don't lay the corpse in such a bath, the corpse will not look very pretty within a few days and will dry out completely. The body will also be fixed, so we now officially have confirmation that La Toya was lying when she said that MJ (who was allegedly embalmed) looked awesome without that bath after 10 weeks, and that she could bend the body.
So who saw the 'body'?
The family: obviously in on it
Security: Alvarez is the one calling 911 at exactly 12:21 pm. His testimony was full of fat BS and I think we can safely say he is in on it. Not to mention that we have a video of the security doing high fives later on as if they were happy they pulled it off.
Murray: obviously in on it, the guy didn't kill anyone and is on trial for something he didn't do, yet looks pretty relaxed when he let's Ben photograph him at the barber/pedicure/Disneyland/tie-shopping etc.
Paramedics: Didn't compare notes and their stories differ. If they were so truthful about what they have seen, why isn't their story identical? Plus they lost PRECIOUS moments by backing out that ambulance. Why didn't paramedic #3 testify? Who is that anyway? And why are they on a fake ambulance picture? Why did they back out of the property without that being necessary?
Dr. Cooper: Pronounced MJ in the field, yet worked on the body for over an hour, even though she testified that he was clinically DOA. She also pronounced him at 2:26 which ties in with the hoax, plus she allegedly closed the eyes of a corpse that was dead for hours (or months for that matter). Same goes for Nguyen. Both women are nowhere to be found on the internet with pictures (except for some linkedin profile of Nguyen with only UCLA as working experience and 1 connection ... ) while the mysterious Dr. Daniel Cruz, who IS on the internet with pictures, and who is a cardiologist! has not been on the prosecution's witness list.
Helicopter crew: I'm not even starting on them, they had the body on the seats for the crew in plain sight. Besides that, they could have been told that they had to transport a dummy like that to distract, so the real body could safely be transported by van. No need for a real dead body either way.
Coroner: Dr. Rogers, who said he did the autopsy, looked UNREAL and lied as soon as he lowered his right hand. "What is your profession Dr. Rogers?" -> "I'm a deputy medical examiner".. ORLY? BS! He is a Chief forensic MD, as stated on the website of the LA County Coroner. Besides that, the coroner in charge of the autopsy was Lakshmanan, why isn't HE on the witness list of the prosecution? And we know that the coroner must be in on it if he did not get a MJ look-a-like on his table that died the exact moment MJ decided (years ago) to hoax his death. Either he has seen no body at all and still made a bogus report, or he had a body on his table that had been frozen and still made a bogus report.
LAPD detective Martinez, who has NOT been on the witness list for the prosecution.
Forest Lawn director Scott something, according to La Toya, plus Jeffré Phillips. Both were present when the coffin was opened after 10 weeks and they lifted the body to get palm prints... 'nuff said (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_lol.gif)
There is still no reason for a real corpse. For who? To fool Martinez? Is he the target of the sting? Just he? And if so, why didn't they let him take the stand?
But anyways, I wanted to let y'all know that there is no way a coroner can be fooled with a terminally ill patient that died 6 months ago and has been on ice, no way.
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before.
Ok so Im_convinced, what exactly is your body theory at this point then? You've stated here recently what it is NOT (not terminal patient, not frozen), but I'm not clear on what exactly it IS.
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
I don't get it either...QuoteThey had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
Anyways, let's assume it was kept in a fridge, fine by me because the pathologist mentioned that too. A body will go smell rotten after two days, regardless of that fridge. It slows down, it does not stop. As soon as it is placed in a hot room, decomp/rigor sets in very quickly. And will show even more signs of death than a body that was recently frozen.
I still have not heard a plausible motive for a body either and with that refridgerated body, it still has to be a quite fresh corpse. What is the chance that a person would die around that day that looks so much like Mike that a coroner could be fooled. Mike WAS allegedly identified by his DL, which means that if the coroner is not in on it, the DL had to match the corpse. Oh, and besides looking like him, it needed to have vitiligo as well.
Sorry, but I rest my case. The coroner is in on it, there is no need for an autopsy on a random corpse. There is also no reason for a real corpse for the rest of the witnesses. You either don't get what I mean, or I don't get you, but this is going in circles. Show me one very good reason for a corpse and I will reconsider, but so far you did not give me one.
According to [David] Smith, the crypt at the coroner comfortably holds 300 bodies. At nearly the halfway point of 2010, the number of bodies currently hovers at 248.
Workers at the coroner's office cremated 756 bodies last year, compared to 708 bodies in 2008. Statistics reveal that for both numbers, next of kin was located and notified for nearly 70 percent of the bodies. In 2007, cremation totaled 655 - no next of kin could be discovered for 245.
[...]
The county morgue, which took care of the unclaimed - cremating them in their facilities at no cost after the coroner had been unable to locate next of kin in over 30 days - stopped accepting bodies from the coroner due to budget issues and a general increase in bodies in February 2009.
[...]
At an average cremation rate of 20 bodies per week and limited crypt space, the coroner hired two private crematories, which charged $150 per body, leaving taxpayers to front the bill, totaling more than $100,000 in 2009.
“For the first time in history, the coroner is actually having to pay to have bodies cremated,” Smith said. “We had to take the money out of other funds.”
[...]
After cremation, the remains are transported to the county cemetery and deposited in neat black boxes which are shelved for two years to see if any family steps forward to claim them.
If they do, it comes at a price tag - $352 to be exact.
And if they don't, a decedent's ashes will be poured into a common grave along with the ashes of hundreds of others.[/l][/l]
Yes it is very frustrating, I hope we won't end up like Elvis Fans ...in 30 years from now still asking is he alive? The only thing I always think is, that a doctor can't be so stupid. NOO WAAY!!!!
I am a Elvis Presely fan too, I am still waiting lolol/. I said to myself, if I would fake my death, would I come back? NO,, usually if you fake your death it is not to come back. Then in the other hand, Michael is different, totally different from Elvis. Michael hoax death is to apprehend the bad people who wanted him dead. It is a total ball game. Like I said before, I just hope this will end soon, because it is very frustrating.. blessings go all.Still waiting... oh my god. I am an Elvis Fan too. But until now I didn't know he's still alive. However in 1977 I thought that some things were strange like the name on the grave stone, but at that time we had no internet so how could we find out? Michael Jackson is different, that's so true. One never knows when it comes to Michael. He keeps us glued to our seats since 2 long years. Only he can do that! It was always his wish anyway. lolol/
I want to bring this video in favor of a possible sting against doctors. In the police interview Murray mentioned a Dr Adams. This same doctor (David Adams, anesthesiologist) is now suing Murray. We know that Murray is on it, so Adams suing Murray sounds fishy to say the least. La Toya said that Murray was the "fall guy" so seen in this perspective and current events it's becoming clearer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
Then, Paula, as Souza asked, who is a real body designed to fool?
What intrigues me is WHY Michael decided to hoax his death this way.
[....]Wow, I have to say that was THE rudest think I've read on here [....]You are not alone! just so you know...
[...]examples of BEING UNEDUCATED AND STILL PARTICIPATING [...]
[...] Where is the love in OUR group with talk like THAT?? [...]
[....]... then maybe we'll just stay out of your discussion. [...]I've reached to the same conclusion...
Okay, one last try to see if I can explain what I mean in regards to the real corpse...
Let's ASSUME that the DA/Judge/Cooley are target of the sting. I don't believe that, but let's say they are. Why need a dead body? Neither of them has seen the body as far as I'm concerned, and are going by documents from the LAPD, LAFD, hospital and coroner's office. Those documents are all fabricated and there was no need for a real corpse to make those documents, plus the 'targets' didn't need to see the corpse. So if the they are the target, there is no need for a real body.
If the coroner's office is the target, then you would have to use a real fresh corpse, that looks like Mike and will die of acute propofol intoxication, because if the AR is 'legit', then it means the person on the table was healthy as a fish. It also means that the picture shown in court would be a real picture and that confirms the corpse really looked like MJ. You can't perform plastic surgery on a corpse, because the wounds won't heal. So that means they did plastic surgery on the living person, that was healthy as a fish, just to kill him later with propofol for MJ's hoax. That doesn't sound very plausible. Like I said, if the patient would have been ill and would have died because of a terminal illness, the coroner would have noticed and we would have seen in the AR that the patient was sick. Problem with a terminally ill patient is that it is quite risky to put him under for plastic surgery because he might not survive the propofol, lol. So if the coroner is not in on it, and the AR is based on a real corpse, then TS has a good point with his murder theory.
They only sting in my opinion that requires a real corpse, is a sting against the LAPD. There is one or maybe two that allegedly saw the body and I believe they could be fooled, but in that case we still have a problem, because we have the autopsy and hospital pictures, that show us a 'corpse' that looks like Michael. So that means they still had a corpse looking like Michael to show them, see my above objections. Besides that, if the FBI is helping Mike with this because of corruption they found inside the police dept. during the allegations, then I have to ask again: why 'die' in LA and not in Santa Barbara? Why didn't he move back to Neverland and die there? Because the main ones investigating him back then was the SBPD.
If the sting is against the pharmaceutical industry, then there is also no need for a corpse, because none of them have seen a corpse.
And as for the 'proof of death' the autopsy pic could mean since the targets (whoever they are) might be reading here and be aware of a possible hoax: they will then also read here why that autopsy pic is far from proof of death.
Anyway, I hope I made clear what I mean and why I still can't see how and why a real corpse would have been used, even though I am pretty certain that there is a sting going on. Maybe the witnesses of the defense will shine more light on the focus of the sting.
But I stand with my theory: Sting operation, trial could be a part of it but I am not sure yet in what way, hoax court, no real corpse.
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Throughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
Arms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.
Then, Paula, as Souza asked, who is a real body designed to fool?
It was only one supposition. Now that they think of these images, i see very similar to the photo of the " corpse " and i wonder to go to the hospital the June 25? , ..or these images are not in reality the June 25. First in the house, then it appears as a paramedic and finally the " body "
(http://www.smiletheweb.com/mj/Behind-the-fence-04.gif)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/detall10.jpg)
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Paula, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly...but if I am, then it would support (especially the bolded part) what Back said in his 'theory/vision' post...not as a question, but as a statement of fact:
QuoteThroughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
and:This was back's grand post-6/25 re-entrance at MJJC. It was a profound moment considering many members openly believed he was MJ. Notice in that entire post he never says MJ is dead. He words it extremely carefully so as to subtly suggest death, so if you read it assuming MJ is dead, you are also likely to assume that back is eulogizing MJ. But he's not at all. It's extremely clever wording.
QuoteArms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.
With L.O.V.E. always.
If MJ had out smarted a hit man sent to kill him, would he be posting about it on a message board?
I want to bring this video in favor of a possible sting against doctors. In the police interview Murray mentioned a Dr Adams. This same doctor (David Adams, anesthesiologist) is now suing Murray. We know that Murray is on it, so Adams suing Murray sounds fishy to say the least. La Toya said that Murray was the "fall guy" so seen in this perspective and current events it's becoming clearer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
YES! Thank you for the video Sarahli. It was my first and the only guess the sting was against the medical field (doctors and maybe some pharmacies) And exactly Dr Adams issue sounds fishy to me too and makes my feeling stronger that the sting is against the medical field.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
If there is a sting, then there is no way FBI operates apart from DA. Sting operation ends before trial. The fake AR is possible only if there is a sting. But if DA is in sting, they would not use fake AR in the court to prove Murray's involuntary manslaughter. There is no possibility for prosecutor to act as a clown to hide some sting operation outside the court. Does not make sense at all. Finally, again, there is no need to sting to investigate and place charges on pharmacies or doctors. It is already being openly discussed.I agree with your post completely scorpionchik.It has to be a hoax,cause there is no justice if Murray really killed M.J and the most he could get is 4 years.The murder theory,is possible,but very unlikely.I have been questioning lately about the possibility that the evil doers could be watching us on these forums,and trying to fool us.I dont believe they could pull this off without the family being involved,and we know that the family want have a role in that,so M.J is alive and i believe this is a hoax and a sting with many layers.
I think this hoax is Michael's war=take over against ALL of them. I don't believe the chain of people in hoax can be that long nor Michael could do it by himself. I think target are people who wanted him dead. There is no problem for MJ to escape with family and bodyguards help, but the quesion is how AR got there and why prosecutor uses photoshopped pictures of "dead" Michael. The answers are they either don't know it is photoshop or it is real but to us looks like fake. I wonder what jury thinks about photos & positive jury is not in hoax. But it is possible that some of them can be believer.
In the worst scenario, MJ was murdered and "clues" that he is alive are spread by the murderer. But what weird is, if Michael was murdered, convicting Murray for involuntary manslaughter would NOT be fair enough for the family and us, and of course to Michael. So, what "justice" Jermain talks about with media arriving at the court? Just to get up to 4 years for Murray?????! That would be stupid if MJ was murdered.
So, Michael should be/is alive.
It's comlicated to figure details out.
I think would be appropriate if no one claims she/he 100% knows everything. We all still assume a lot and there are will be speculations until..........whatever is going to happen for sure, then we will know what the hell is going on and who's hoax is this.
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5289/adamscard.jpg)
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MJ Was On the Hunt For The Perfect Anesthesiologist 2/17/2011 6:00 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF MJ Was On the Hunt For The Perfect Anesthesiologist Michael Jackson was such a hard-core drug addict ... he actually interviewed an anesthesiologist to follow him to London to "take care of him."http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/16/michael-jackson-anesthesiologist-doctor-london-tour-investigation-lapd/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/16/michael-jackson-anesthesiologist-doctor-london-tour-investigation-lapd/)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/16/0216-michael-jackson-conrad-ex-getty.jpg)
Jackson -- who had a well-documented Propofol addiction for years before his death -- tried recruiting Dr. David Adams, a Las Vegas anesthesiologist, to go on tour with him in 2009.
We've learned Dr. Adams told LAPD investigators that several months before MJ's death ... Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael met with Dr. Adams and said, "We think it would be great to have an anesthesiologist go on the [This Is It] tour."
Turns out Dr. Adams had a history with Michael ... he had put MJ under with Propofol four times in two years for various procedures.
Adams thought about it and texted Murray, "I'd like to be on board. Let's talk about it." But MJ and Murray never contacted him again.
Murray's defense team spokesperson Miranda Sevcik says, "Dr. Murray did not know David Adams." But Sevcik did say the defense has subpoenaed Dr. Adams for the trial.
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Paula, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly...but if I am, then it would support (especially the bolded part) what Back said in his 'theory/vision' post...not as a question, but as a statement of fact:
QuoteThroughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
To be fair, you have it quoted out of context. In context back is referring to the child molestation allegations, in other words, they tried to destroy him with charcter assassination instead of physical assassination. In this entire post, he doesn ot refer to MJ's death. Only to the memorial.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/OfatHeOrYorVision3.jpg)Quoteand:This was back's grand post-6/25 re-entrance at MJJC. It was a profound moment considering many members openly believed he was MJ. Notice in that entire post he never says MJ is dead. He words it extremely carefully so as to subtly suggest death, so if you read it assuming MJ is dead, you are also likely to assume that back is eulogizing MJ. But he's not at all. It's extremely clever wording.
QuoteArms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Presumably he posted this on MJJC as a test of sorts. Those who didn't pay attention to detail and failed to read in between the lines would take it as a sign that back never was MJ after all, since here he was posting on 11/18/09. Meanwhile, those who looked closer had more questions. He's not lying but he's also not saying MJ is dead.
The poisoned through the veins is what the news reports were saying about MJ at the time so it was a relevant comparison to Jesus Christ, who's end result was resurrection.
If MJ had out smarted a hit man sent to kill him, would he be posting about it on a message board?
Who do you think is he talking about when he says physically no more?
In that context it looks to me that he is talking about Michael :-\ .
Who do you think is he talking about when he says physically no more?
In that context it looks to me that he is talking about Michael :-\ .
I agree, he talks about Michael and my first imression was exactly the same, meaning MJ physically no more=dead. But then I think it also could mean Michael is NOT coming back, therefore physically won't be with us, but he is not dead, otherwise how we can explain "take over the world" phrase ? If MJ died, what take over Back was talking about?
What intrigues me is WHY Michael decided to hoax his death this way.
I am convinced he did it this way to parallel Elvis's death.
The problem with a doctor sting, among other things, is we have no history or past pattern of behavior that links MJ to concerns about addiction in Hollywood and the problem of shady doctors.
There's a lot of problems in this world... you know?
Don't you think MJ is more concerned with the plight of children, the environment, the media and their ability to twist the facts, and the music business giving black artists a fair shake? MJ has always been vocal about these things.
Why would he suddenly switch gears and be so concerned about shady doctors feeding addiction problems that he would design his whole death hoax around it?
Makes no sense to me.
Makes more sense that he chose to do it this way to parallel Elvis's death AND to illustrate how someone can be tried, convicted, and sentenced by the media, who then influence the general public to do the same... and in doing so, media creates our (collective) reality and guides our perception of events. This is a great deal of power. Scary levels of power. This fact makes the media the MOST powerful, and therefore the most dangerous entity on the planet.
You know?
I want to bring this video in favor of a possible sting against doctors. In the police interview Murray mentioned a Dr Adams. This same doctor (David Adams, anesthesiologist) is now suing Murray. We know that Murray is on it, so Adams suing Murray sounds fishy to say the least. La Toya said that Murray was the "fall guy" so seen in this perspective and current events it's becoming clearer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
YES! Thank you for the video Sarahli. It was my first and the only guess the sting was against the medical field (doctors and maybe some pharmacies) And exactly Dr Adams issue sounds fishy to me too and makes my feeling stronger that the sting is against the medical field.
Yes and I have wondered why they showed his card as evidence during the trial. I don't remember the exact reason apart from the fact that it's been found in Murray's car:
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5289/adamscard.jpg)
I believe the sting is just one layer of the Hoax, and the sting itself is most probably multy-layered :lol: ... a little like the hoax within a hoax, painting withing a painting pattern if you will.
No court today or tomorrow...
I am not quite sure.... BUT If I remember well, from the videos I had seen at the time on youtube, some of them are not even available anymore!! This short film was taken by the same Ben Evenstad, the paparazzi [also Michael's friend] who took that famous fake-ambulance photo!! He gave 2 interviews shortly after June 25th 2009 and what he said in the first one contradicts what he said in the 2nd one! and during one of these 2 interviews, besides the photo, they also showed this short film [without any comments] of this person who looks a lot like Michael dressed exactly as he was dressed at the TII rehearsals one or few days before he "died".[...](http://www.smiletheweb.com/mj/Behind-the-fence-04.gif)[...]I LOVE YOU paula-c!!!!!!!!!! This video of looking through the fence or gate is awesome...I love how slow it is and that it's looped......it helps a ton. I have wondered about this particular video piece.......when/where exactly was it shot. I don't see an easy access point from that fence or gate to gain that type of shot, but OK, go with it. [...]
Back's posts are new to me; but I noticed some interesting things... he capitalizes words in strange places so there's some meaning there.Nice observations !!!
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
We've learned Dr. Adams told LAPD investigators that several months before MJ's death ... Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael met with Dr. Adams and said, "We think it would be great to have an anesthesiologist go on the [This Is It] tour.
Marilyn Monroe, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett, Keith Moon, Billie Holliday, Heath Ledger, Brittany Murphy, Amy Winehouse and a lot of other influential people are dead from drug abuse. Were some of these deaths accidental, or were some of them murders?"
Are there any events following that 'accident' that could shed light on a possible 'sting' on doctors and/or those who tried 'killing' him in the past? Hmmm...not sure it fits at all....but again, the significance of it being the mid-point of his life, mixed in with the tape of the 'accident' mysteriously appearing shortly after his 'death' (when he supposedly had the only copy)...keep nagging at me because those factors suggest GREAT importance in Mike choosing June 25th to begin the 'illusion'.
Past, present & future
Hi(s)Story shall be told
dates, events, numbers intertwine
and whispers shall unfold……….
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
[...]I wrote more about bizarre celebs deaths and the strange numerology of their death-dates on this topic:
TheMoonisdancingQuoteMarilyn Monroe, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett, Keith Moon, Billie Holliday, Heath Ledger, Brittany Murphy, Amy Winehouse and a lot of other influential people are dead from drug abuse. Were some of these deaths accidental, or were some of them murders?"Good point. Maybe that Michael wants to expose some ugly truths in regards to Hollywood.[...]
I read that other tests were to be done.... a new ingredient is added in the recipe.... of course it made me think of Front's post:
Quote
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
Imagine that at one point they make other tests and "find out" that the DNA doesn't match Michael's! It sure would ROCK the trial!
You know the easiest solutions to all our Back 7-day theory interpretation issues, our trial witnesses being so authentic sounding, not figuring out if this is a sting or hoax, family saying he was murdered, and 95% fan world adamant he's dead---is that MJ was indeed murdered. It would answer ALL the questions. BUT we know he’s alive somehow, but how. Back says, “in angelic form”.
I wish there was proof that a miracle actually took place, and that somehow God set aside the rules of nature, and restored every drugged cell in his bruised body, he sat up on the stretcher and said, "It worked!!" But of course that would mean that the guy behind the gate looking like MJ, was an intentional look-alike... Or if MJ actually was from birth somehow half angel and half human but no one could tell. This would explain his poems, lyrics, quotes about being someone special and living forever, from years ago even when young. There is something about this hoax that SO defies logic at every turn and every theory comes to some dead ends. I'm not saying I'm believing this but I'm throwing out my thoughts of frustration. I lie awake at night--I'm sure you all relate to that!! :lol:
The sting, if any, as I see it so far, it could be towards the medical industry and also the drug industry (pharma). Murray and other docs have proven to be able to buy whatever asked not really caring for the final use and not caring about control either.
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trialhttp://twitter.com/#!/abc7MurrayTrial/status/125967550185095168
by mjsunflowerjj
Trial will not be in session again tomorrow because of a new issue having to do with a new test done on Michael Jackson stomach content.
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
by mjsunflowerjj
Trial will not be in session again tomorrow because of a new issue having to do with a new test done on Michael Jackson stomach content.
10:08 PM - The Bible and PharmakeiaThis originates surely from the bottomless pit. There is a lot of info out there supporting the mass drugging of the world population not the least being flouridated drinking water. This is not such a big leap in my mind to connect TPB with the pharma industry to bring about their agenda of depopulation and a new world order.
Does the Bible forbid the taking of prescription drugs? That seems to be a matter of personal interpretation and a personal decision. For someone like me that has suffered more harm than good from them I avoid them totally if possible. In fact after being poisoned decades ago by prescription pain pills taken as directed my health seriously declined and I cannot even take aspirin now. In doing considerable research on this subject our modern drug industry and the original Greek word pharmakeia in the Bible are too much alike for my comfort. I concede there are times when some drugs like antibiotics and pain relievers can be beneficial taken for short periods. There must be some exceptions but ALL drugs are poison to one degree or another. Nearly all drugs merely cover up symptoms producing significant, and often deadly, side effects necessitating the use of more drugs to cover up those side effects, etc. etc.
The modern drug industry originated with the IG Farben company in Nazi Germany. They led in funding Hitler's rise to power. Their drugs and extermination gas made the holocaust and prisoner medical experiments possible. The major pharmaceutical companies of today came from the breakup of IG Farben after the war. The drug industry is all about profit, not helping humanity. The corrupt FDA insures that drug companies are thoroughly protected in their endeavors while at the same time curtailing natural therapies as much as possible. When Codex soon becomes the law of the land ALL natural medicine will be illegal. Prescription drugs kill an estimated 100,000 to 200,000 Americans yearly and are one of the leading causes of death. The medical industry together kills 3/4 million people annually. Your chances of dying from modern medicine are 16,000% higher than dying from terrorism. http://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html
Nazi drug experiments never ceased. They simply moved to America and expanded worldwide. The H1N1 vaccine is part of that agenda. People must be kept ill with chronic disease for continued profitabilty. And some population reduction fits in nicely too as long as it doesn't get too obvious for the sheeple to notice. Additional information is provided below. The article below is good except for not mentioning that many "witch doctors" throughout the world DO use the practice of the occult also in their "medicine" which is very dangerous spiritually.
Back's posts are new to me; but I noticed some interesting things... he capitalizes words in strange places so there's some meaning there.Nice observations !!!
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
I especially love the one about the letter H !! ;)
I posted some montages about the hoax and letter H on the last 2 pages of this topic ----)) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html)
Quoteabc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
by mjsunflowerjj
Trial will not be in session again tomorrow because of a new issue having to do with a new test done on Michael Jackson stomach content.
/overreacting/
New? NEW?? What?!
Ok, what noooooow.. Will they suddenly find 20 pills in there?? 5oo ml of Propofol?
Hope they won't be diggin' for "body's" stomach in 2011 fresse/
I can't wait for trial! bounce/ please be Wednesday..
UPD: I see, "8 Lorazepam pills".
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
So, am I understanding this corrrectly? Defense are losing all their defense! First, MJ couldn't have drunk additional propofol, now he didn't swallow extra Lorazepam - what DID kill him then???? What line are they going to take now? If I didn't know better I'd be starting to think MJ shouldn't be dead! ;)
I never understood properly if the propofol in his blood was actually a lot or not - can anyone help me out here?
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
New toxicology report could hurt defense
A new toxicology report could deal a blow to the defense's theory that Michael Jackson took sleeping pills and self-injected propofol creating the lethal cocktail that caused his death.
During a hearing Monday, prosecutor David Walgren said this latest round of lab testing is meant to counter the defense's claim that Jackson ingested eight lorazepam tablets.
Walgren requested that the Los Angeles County coroner test Jackson's stomach contents last week after the defense dropped its claim that Jackson swallowed the propofol. Defense lawyers now suggest Jackson more likely injected the propofol himself after swallowing the lorazepam.
Defense attorney Ed Chernoff then raised an issue with the court expressing his concern over the new toxicology report.
"We don't know what it means," said Chernoff.
Chernoff also commented on the timing of the report, claiming the prosecution waited too long to test Jackson's stomach contents.
Walgren claimed that regardless of the timing the test results are relevant to the issues at trial.
There was "a much smaller amount of lorazepam in the stomach that is totally inconsistent with oral consumption of lorazepam tablets," said Walgren.
Testimony will resume Wednesday morning. Judge Michael Pastor granted another delay of the trial for two reasons: To give the defense time to review the new toxicology report and the judge also wants to give the state's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, more time to deal with the death of his father.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/18/new-toxicology-report-could-hurt-defense/#more-13798
Back's posts are new to me; but I noticed some interesting things... he capitalizes words in strange places so there's some meaning there.Nice observations !!!
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
I especially love the one about the letter H !! ;)
I posted some montages about the hoax and letter H on the last 2 pages of this topic ----)) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20291.50.html)
Actually this thread is not right one to analyze Back.We have special Back thread where all these thing has been analyzed. Yes, Back was writing letters in capital that point on different word that contains meaning itself.
My friend Dr. Paul White, an anesthesiologist who is as solid on the science of propofol as anyone, is an expert witness for the defense. I haven’t spoken to Dr. White about the testimony he plans to give – or about the trial at all. But soon he may be asked for his professional opinion in the courtroom, and it seems that he’s prepared to say that Murray did not cause Jackson’s death. Even knowing that, I’ll be amazed if Dr. White thinks that Murray provided proper care when administering propofol. How the heck did Jackson die then, Paul? And what about the fact that Jackson was combining propofol with other prescription drugs? Darn it, Paul – now I’ve got to spend some time paying attention to this case.His astonishment as to how Dr White is going to defend Murray's case is quite interesting.
my post went away.
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
The easiest manner in which to kill someone and leave no trace of the obvious crime having been committed, would be to cause a heart attack by using chemical substances that break down as naturally occurring compounds that would be normally found in anyone´s body. The process is relatively simple to anyone with knowledge of medicine and procedures involving those medicines. For the answer to this, I consulted with a local health care source, who was quite happy to explain to me how the Illuminati could create a heart attack.
You're welcome Curls. beerchug
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
I don't see how they can do additional tests on stomache contents and do more toxicology tests NOW !!!! Two years later. How ? Did they save samples of stomache contents for more than two years. 28 months ???????
This proves that this is a TV show/ movie. It's all ridiculous. I hope something good happens because of all this such as the real criminals getting caught etc. I hope that's the plan.
I don't see how they can do additional tests on stomache contents and do more toxicology tests NOW !!!! Two years later. How ? Did they save samples of stomache contents for more than two years. 28 months ???????
This proves that this is a TV show/ movie. It's all ridiculous. I hope something good happens because of all this such as the real criminals getting caught etc. I hope that's the plan.
Lorazepam is a benzodiazepine and can be detected in oral fluids/ blood from 6 to 48 hours and in urine from 7 days to 6 weeks. Michael was 2 months in the morge and tests were performed... WTF?? ...why now?
On my way to research on frozen and preserved gastric fluids (http://www.thesidewalker.com/forums/images/smilies/vomit1.gif)
*Austrian accent* I´ll be back
(http://www.zone54.com/picture-gallery/image?format=raw&type=img&id=2840)
Immediately after death the body is wrapped and sent to the morgue, where it is kept refrigerated until the autopsy. Most autopsies are done somewhere between 8 and 4 or so, including weekends and holidays.Do we know the time?
Refrigerate body to preserve it. In long-running murder trials this may have to kept up for ages. Sometimes defense lawyer will want to order an independent autopsy
The major organs of the body such as the heart, liver, lungs, and stomach are removed for examination, and small samples are taken for lab inspection. Indicators of disease are noted, and usually the stomach is opened so that its contents can be examined. Samples of body fluids are also taken so that they can be tested for drugs, toxins, and any other unusual substances. After inspection, the organs are usually placed back into the body cavity before it is sewn up.
What Stomach Contents Can IndicateThe process through which food is absorbed into the body can take anything from twenty two hours to two days to complete and within that time food is broken down and reduced to a liquid pulp from which essential proteins are extracted.
Given that this process can take such a long time the contents of the stomach - and in particular their condition at the time of autopsy - can help to estimate the time of death.
Stomach contents can also reveal if the deceased was perhaps experimenting with any form of drug or exotic food, which might bring about a state of internal poisoning.
As a generally accepted rule stomach contents are analysed for trace elements of poisons or other toxins that might not normally be found in the deceased's system. This is useful if there is a suspicion of drug abuse or poisoning.
Stomach contents are useful in the identification of a body that might be difficult to identify by conventional methods. For example if a body is discovered that is dressed in a similar manner to a reported missing person, examining the stomach contents can yield surprising results. Let us say that the missing person has an allergy to a particular food item, if this item is to be found among the stomach contents of the deceased then it might be likely that the two are not the same.
This does sound perhaps a very simple way of proving the identity - or likewise disputing the identity - of the deceased but it can be a very useful tool.
in investigations where cause of death is in doubt the contents of the human stomach may offer up clues and insights that would normally go unnoticed.
While the process of an autopsy may seem gruesome to some, autopsies can provide valuable medical clues. Especially in terminally ill patients, an autopsy can provide information for doctors about the exact cause of death which may help them treat other patients with similar conditions in the future.
In murder investigations, an autopsy is a crucial piece of the puzzle, showing how exactly the victim died and what was used to kill him or her. People interested in the mechanics of death often pursue careers are forensic pathologists or forensic anthropologists so that they can learn more about this inevitable life process.Educational tv...better than average tv but using still the morbid attention of the public...human nature.
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
So, am I understanding this corrrectly? Defense are losing all their defense! First, MJ couldn't have drunk additional propofol, now he didn't swallow extra Lorazepam - what DID kill him then???? What line are they going to take now? If I didn't know better I'd be starting to think MJ shouldn't be dead! ;)
I never understood properly if the propofol in his blood was actually a lot or not - can anyone help me out here?
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
11/11/11 is when Thrive comes out.
10/28/11 (1+2+8= 11) is when verdict is said to be decided.
My best guess is we should just wait.
The investigations in this forum are profound!! Now all we can do is wait....
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
The search warrant has always said that Dr Murray 'noticed JACKSON was not breathing' at 'approximately 1100 hours'
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf)
When you open this link in a PDF you can go to p.11 of 23, but in the actual document it's numbered p.20 of 32. Lines 15-17.
If you follow the time line on p.19 and calculate the minutes - that is Dr Murray's story according to the search warrant.
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
The search warrant has always said that Dr Murray 'noticed JACKSON was not breathing' at 'approximately 1100 hours'
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf)
When you open this link in a PDF you can go to p.11 of 23, but in the actual document it's numbered p.20 of 32. Lines 15-17.
If you follow the time line on p.19 and calculate the minutes - that is Dr Murray's story according to the search warrant.
Thanks for that link Elsa, I hadn't seen that document before. Well, if he found him not breathing at 11.00 it's even worse - because in that 'lost hour' I was talking about he was making phone calls while MJ lay 'dead', not 'asleep'.
[And there's another 'lost hour' after rehearsal the night before. Some say he left at 12.30, others 1.30.]
We need Hercule Poirot on the case!
You're welcome Curls. beerchug
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
The lost hour reminds me of the lost 30 minutes (or more maybe, since the Cirque show was supposed to start t 11.00 pm) at the Mirage with Jordie Chandler. This has been bugging me for years. What happened there? Why was Jordie so quiet and Mike so upset? Why would Mike suddenly want Jordie to sleep in his room? Why didn't they go to the show? I have had the most disturbing thoughts about this and to be clear: not about Michael molesting the boy! I would really want to know what made him so upset. Who caused it? Who did they meet in those minutes and what did they do to him (MJ) or the boy? The only ones that probably know are Jordie and Michael. If this is a sting against Tom Sneddon et al, and I really believe that's a huge possibility, then Jordy must be a key player. Let's not forget that, other than the Arvizo's, Jordie was forced into saying things that never happened. He was drugged and forced and he never wanted to testify against him. That is the biggest mistake the rats made back then and that is why they never made it to trial, because other then Jordie's implanted false memories by Torbiner and Chandler, they had nothing.
Just for FUN post! :lol: :lol:You're welcome Curls. beerchug
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
And....there was a REAL CLOWN outside the courthouse at the trial!!!! Maybe someone we know???
Wow...this 'safe procedures' video that Dr. Shafer is narrating is very educational...and very damning for Murray. It's showing every single thing Murray didn't have on hand and every single thing he didn't do to 'save' MJ.
It will be interesting to see the cross-examination of Shafer...the guy is super smart and extremely knowledgeable.
On another note...I think I heard on HLN that there's no court tomorrow...or that the defense won't be presenting their case until Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Just wondering if any of you ever heard this before. JVM was interviewing Lindsay L's dad cuz she has court tomorrow, and he said that the GOvernor of Cali has something going on because of prescription drugs and celebs.
WHAT?? JVM didn't question or dispute his statement as though it is common knowledge..or...not suppose to be known.
What in the world is he talking about is going on with the gov. of cali and drugs/celebs???
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Much LOVE to you bearhug and thank you once again!!!@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Wow.....wow...wow....a thousands wow's........I couldn't even make it past the first few bars before the tears started. This song always makes me emotional.....but in French, with her setting........simply wow. Thank YOU for posting it.......another brilliant thing to share. I love it so much! I have really come to love this artist....I had never heard of her before :oops: But, she is amazing for sure. Your eye for details astounds me still.......you're amazing. I am so glad you liked the video......if I can bring a little joy to a friend's day, I am indeed blessed!
Have a brilliant day! : )
Blessings!
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Another Pic Showed Up In Court, But It's Kinda Weird.....Here Is Why "The date on the tiles beside his body appears to read August 25th, 2009 -- but MJ's autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date is wrong ... it should read June 25th. " Does It Mean Anything?? 2+5=7 , 9-2=7 7/7??? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney-2.jpg)
Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
What I'm saying is that the rubber stopper will make sure Propofol will not leak from the bottle, so the bottle in the bag didn't cause it. Makes sense, since the IV bag was clear. To be able to get the propofol out with a needle and syringe, you will have to put air back in the bottle, so it takes a while until you have enough propofol in the bottle. That means Mike didn't do it himself in those two minutes (if this all really happened). So the prosecution may seem to have a strong case, they were still unable to prove how Murray killed him. If Murray OD'ed MJ, then I would like to know HOW that happened. Did he inject it right into the veins? Could be, but if so; why weren't his prints on the 'broken' syringe?
This case doesn't add up at all. The defense is weak, but even though the prosecution SEEM to have a stronger case, they don't make sense either. I wonder if the jury can see that too.
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
http://twitpic.com/72t5la (http://twitpic.com/72t5la)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/427982734.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1319070037&Signature=QUrFouAJIyS1%2Bn1HbuupcQ2XbFw%3D)
Drugs were also administered as a form of sedation, mostly to young girls, but to males as well. Severe discipline in the forms of beatings and torture was commonplace: Schäfer insisted that discipline was spiritually enriching.
Paul Schäfer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Sch%C3%A4fer), a former Luftwaffe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe) paramedic, was the founder and first leader ("Permanent Uncle") of Colonia Dignidad. He had left Germany in 1961, after being accused of sexually abusing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_abusing) two boys. On May 20, 1997, he fled Chile, pursued by authorities investigating charges that he had molested 26 children of the colony. In March, 2005, he was arrested in Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) and extradited to Chile. (Schäfer was also wanted for questioning about the disappearance in 1985 of Boris Weisfeiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Weisfeiler), an American Jewish mathematics professor of Russian birth. [4]) Schaefer died in prison while serving a 20-year sentence at the national penitentiary in Santiago April 24, 2010, of heart disease. [5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Baviera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Baviera)
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Wow.....wow...wow....a thousands wow's........I couln't even make it past the first few bars before the tears started. This song always makes me emotional.....but in French, with her setting........simply wow. Thank YOU for posting it.......another brilliant thing to share. I love it so much! I have really come to love this artist....I had never heard of her before :oops: But, she is amazing for sure. Your eye for details astounds me still.......you're amazing. I am so glad you liked the video......if I can bring a little joy to a friend's day, I am indeed blessed!
Have a brilliant day! : )
Blessings!
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
[...]Anyways.......SimPattyK...loved that Patricia Kaas information, she intrigues me to no end! : ) I will be looking further into that for sure!Oh trust me...if until today or recently...I've been kind of ignoring all the connections, leaving them on the "She just likes Michael"-area , be sure that now I'm starting to really look more closely and dig up some more about her!
[....]Merci beaucoup j'aime bien la chanson de Patricia Kass ou sont les clowns.. Thank you I love that song, and everytime I hear it it puts tears in my eyes. blessings.Merci! ca fait plaisir a savoir!! ;) bisous
I believe that the star & and the H2o mark are 2 signs from Michael that this is only a movie! The BUBBLE leads me to the "monkey business" connections [with Elvis , Prince-the artist & all the color purple puzzle-piece] and also the Bubble can symbolize the BUBBLE-GUM and the balloons and the expression "It's all baloney!! a farce / a fake!" - I posted a montage on the previous page here.coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover http://twitpic.com/72t5la (http://twitpic.com/72t5la) (http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/427982734.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1319070037&Signature=QUrFouAJIyS1%2Bn1HbuupcQ2XbFw%3D)The five arm star is tattooed on Lindsay Lohan's left wrist.
The five arm star is pictured on Michael's sternum (a bone protecting the heart).
The five arm star is the Hollywood Blvd star everybody may step on.
Interesting that there is a "bubble" on Michael's shoulder which actually is the giving the chemical structure for H2O (water).
(O2 = oxygen and H2O = water are the elements most needed for life).
[....]
Dr. Steven Shafer said propofol is considered a "hypnotic"Did Evan Chandler as a dentist give propofol to Jordie and suggest things to him while under? Is there a link?
* Shafer told prosecutors there are 2,500 articles about Propofol sedation... and only one -- very flawed -- article about Propofol and insomnia. He said, "We're in a pharmacological Never-Never Land. It's only ever been done to Michael Jackson in history as far as I know."
Thank you :) I always value your input!! I hated to miss a part of the info, thank goodness I have you all to fill me in.Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
What I'm saying is that the rubber stopper will make sure Propofol will not leak from the bottle, so the bottle in the bag didn't cause it. Makes sense, since the IV bag was clear. To be able to get the propofol out with a needle and syringe, you will have to put air back in the bottle, so it takes a while until you have enough propofol in the bottle. That means Mike didn't do it himself in those two minutes (if this all really happened). So the prosecution may seem to have a strong case, they were still unable to prove how Murray killed him. If Murray OD'ed MJ, then I would like to know HOW that happened. Did he inject it right into the veins? Could be, but if so; why weren't his prints on the 'broken' syringe?
This case doesn't add up at all. The defense is weak, but even though the prosecution SEEM to have a stronger case, they don't make sense either. I wonder if the jury can see that too.
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
Paula-cQuoteDr. Steven Shafer said propofol is considered a "hypnotic"Did Evan Chandler as a dentist give propofol to Jordie and suggest things to him while under? Is there a link?
About the pic comparison between the out-of-session seal and the MJ’s striped tunic in the ‘Michael’ cover, isn’t it amazing that they are the same stripe as if the artist behind the album knew what would be shown in court. All pre-planned.
Just a thought on Murray, remember how from the beginning of the hoax, Murray is made to symbolize Michael in many ways. Today Dr. Shafer completely ripped Murray’s ability and actions as a Doctor to shreds and made him to be an incompetent imbecile. This is how the media has portrayed and much of the world sees Michael and why he is the brunt of jokes. Of course MJ is alive but maybe the Defense are going to present something to make us completely change our minds about Murray, just like the world needs to see the other side to MJ. Perhaps the Exhibit B, as someone said was Murray walking to the UCLA exit.
Just a few thoughts on today's Walgren questioning Dr. Shafer.
The doctor said that bile in the lungs would be fatal, and that's why doctors always tell patients about to receive propofol to have no food or drink for I believe it was 8 hours. But I hardly think MJ could have performed strenously each night at rehearsals without drinking or even eating the whole time. The danger of aspirating would have been very high. And Murray had no suctioning equipment at all. :-[
Are 'egregious' or 'unconscionable' words commonly used in trials? Walgren really emphasized them and the doc said them repeatedly. (Back used both words a few times too.) In total Walgren counted 17 agregious acts of Murray, things that each alone could have resulted in MJ's death, and which were forseeable by Murray to be prevented.
Walgren & Shafer both said, "Michael Jackson could be alive (if)"... lol. :mrgreen: How much dosage is dangerous? Shafer, "We are in Never Neverland." :lol:
He stressed how the single most important thing Murray needed to do was to keep MJ's breathing going, to get oxygen into his lungs, heart and cells. If he had never left his side he would have seen when MJ stopped breathing and by simply pushing down on his chin he could have cleared the passageway, or quickly put the sealed mask over his mouth and squeezed the air bag to give him oxygen. Shafer said he had only done mouth-to-mouth once too (just like Murray) but that it is very ineffecient life-saving technique because it only gives 18% oxygen and mostly carbon dioxide which the patient doesn't need. Murray had acted as if he didn't know why MJ's heart had stopped, when it only had to do with breathing. Oxygen reminds me of the 02 arena where the TII announcement was made and the hoax started. It's also atomic # 8 (infinity), represented by the symbol O, which could be all the bubbles on the 'Michael' cover. (By mass, oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe after hydrogen and helium and the most abundant element by mass in the Earth's crust.)
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
But it's not supposed to be clear yet. Murray is supposed to look guilty. Only the BAM will illuminate the fact that Murray is innocent. You can't be guilty of manslaughter-ing someone who isn't dead.
It's the fact that if Michael Jackson can fool the world into thinking something MUST BE the truth because they see it with THEIR OWN EYES... then how much do TPTB fool us on a daily basis? How much of our perceived global reality is all just an illusion created with less then innocuous intentions?
Michael's doing it all for love, to show us that it can be done, it is being done, and yes, it is very possible to do; as most people think "MJ can't be alive, it's not possible". If Michael can fool us, they can too. And do. Wake up.
^^That's the message I get from it.
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
Very interesting thought......if so, I'd so be in contempt of court, sorry Judge Pastor, but WTF?? is going on in your court? I'd love to ask him what he thinks of all that we have found wrong..........starting with the seal, moving to those pictures and onto conflicting everything........are we truly the only ones who see this? Is this a real trial........or is it The Twilight Zone? I don't know......only the Shadow knows........OMGosh........The Shadow= TS :lol: :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow)
Wow...how my mind travels......scary at times........ :lol: :shock:
One of the story lines:
Death Stalks the Shadow (Johnstone and Moorehead)
A killer on death row tells the Shadow that his seemingly respectable defense attorney is planning an insurance scam that will result in the deaths of several people.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html (http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html)
Blessings
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
Very interesting thought......if so, I'd so be in contempt of court, sorry Judge Pastor, but WTF?? is going on in your court? I'd love to ask him what he thinks of all that we have found wrong..........starting with the seal, moving to those pictures and onto conflicting everything........are we truly the only ones who see this? Is this a real trial........or is it The Twilight Zone? I don't know......only the Shadow knows........OMGosh........The Shadow= TS :lol: :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow)
Wow...how my mind travels......scary at times........ :lol: :shock:
One of the story lines:
Death Stalks the Shadow (Johnstone and Moorehead)
A killer on death row tells the Shadow that his seemingly respectable defense attorney is planning an insurance scam that will result in the deaths of several people.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html (http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html)
Blessings
You & I both! /judge/ I'm not familiar with The Shadow, but I caught the Never Neverland reference in the Court highlights shown on tv!
Then of course my mind went directly to Monster Rap lyrics... lolol/ But that's how my mind works. geek/
I remember somebody mentioned what might happen if they exhume the "body" bc of the additional testing they were doing for court... & of course there would be NO BODY. afraid/
That would definitely be a HALLOWEEN THRILLER! Remember how on stage when Michael would perform Thriller he was put into the glass coffin? Then when they pull away the curtain the coffin & MJ disappear???
/toldya/
I am so glad this gurney photo is making the rounds again (no pun intended). I wanted to ask one more time.........if this is supposedly a dead Michael Jackson, why is the head elevated? Surely they don't elevate the head in the ER while doing chest compressions, or CPR or other things like that. If he died in the ER....would they then elevate the head, if so why? It make no sense. Also, if you really look at the arms...they don't match. One has tape and fluff stuff, one is more plain. One looks like it's holding a wire or tubing....why? IVs don't go into a palm, they go on top of the hand. The two hands are in different positions as well. Are these supposed to be taken at the same time? I also tried to find that amazing post about the style/brand of gurney.....Stryker. This gurney is definitely an older style.
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
But it's not supposed to be clear yet. Murray is supposed to look guilty. Only the BAM will illuminate the fact that Murray is innocent. You can't be guilty of manslaughter-ing someone who isn't dead.
It's the fact that if Michael Jackson can fool the world into thinking something MUST BE the truth because they see it with THEIR OWN EYES... then how much do TPTB fool us on a daily basis? How much of our perceived global reality is all just an illusion created with less then innocuous intentions?
Michael's doing it all for love, to show us that it can be done, it is being done, and yes, it is very possible to do; as most people think "MJ can't be alive, it's not possible". If Michael can fool us, they can too. And do. Wake up.
^^That's the message I get from it.
In the future people stop aging at 25 and must work to buy themselves more time, but when a young man finds himself with more time than he can imagine he must run from the corrupt police force to save his life.
Theseus is a mortal man chosen by Zeus to lead the fight against the ruthless King Hyperion, who is on a rampage across Greece to obtain a weapon that can destroy humanity.http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/)
Everyone, my thing is to me, this still reads and rings just like a movie. Just think about the thousands of movies that have been produced. Even TV shows, i.e., weekly dramas, as they have a script that tells a story. It has a beginning, middle and ending, unless the end keeps people hanging. Most are fiction based.
This one may end up being "like a dream sequence" like the TV show Dallas ended up doing when the viewers/fans wanted Bobby back. Jermaine claimed a dream he kept having about MJ took him and his bros to Forest Glen/Lawn at the end of the Jackson Family Dynasty show. LOL!
Now since this is a movie/DOC/ARG/expose type of thing, a script can easily be explained by the scripter. Only said one has all of the answers. Most movies are fiction, and of course some are based on true stories. I find this one to be based on such - and it has its humorous side. MJ is doing/creating many things with thisun'. He's got it covered, because he is so brilliant, special and some more stuff.
I haven't been watching the trial or any of the after shows. I wished I would give the Nancy Grace's of the world the time of day. I do appreciate catching up here with what some are conveying. Thanks for this thread. Souza always thinks of everything. I think TS = The Source. I thought it back on old board. Where are we all from? THE SOURCE.
@MsTrinity333, @WishingStar, @BeTheChange: I LOVE your comments ^^
I have nothing to add, but my excitement (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Divers/E_JUMP_1.GIF) and this ... (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/emoticones-msn-envoie-bisou.gif)
10-28-11 The verdict is supposed to be read.
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Another Pic Showed Up In Court, But It's Kinda Weird.....Here Is Why "The date on the tiles beside his body appears to read August 25th, 2009 -- but MJ's autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date is wrong ... it should read June 25th. " Does It Mean Anything?? 2+5=7 , 9-2=7 7/7??? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney-2.jpg)
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
Who is this? Is he part of Murray's defense team?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
Who is this? Is he part of Murray's defense team?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
I have wondered that myself....he sure likes his laptop. Is this the guy that Murray turned to yesterday...I missed that whole thing. Is there internet access from inside the courtroom.....either for just the lawyers, or everyone? I wouldn't think that would be a good idea for some reason. Maybe just the lawyers...maybe. But if everyone has access wouldn't too much information leave the court right away etc? I thought people had to surrender or at least turn off their cell phones. There seems to be a lot of active computer use in the court....does this really happen in cases like these?
Just wondering...............thanks for posting the pictures, hope we find out who it is.
Blessings Always
Who is this? Is he part of Murray's defense team?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
I have wondered that myself....he sure likes his laptop. Is this the guy that Murray turned to yesterday...I missed that whole thing. Is there internet access from inside the courtroom.....either for just the lawyers, or everyone? I wouldn't think that would be a good idea for some reason. Maybe just the lawyers...maybe. But if everyone has access wouldn't too much information leave the court right away etc? I thought people had to surrender or at least turn off their cell phones. There seems to be a lot of active computer use in the court....does this really happen in cases like these?
Just wondering...............thanks for posting the pictures, hope we find out who it is.
Blessings Always
That is Dr. White who is supposed to testify for the defense. He and Dr. Shafer have known each other for 30 years. They supposedly were White (Professor) and Shafer (Student) but Shafer denied that today. They both have written studies together and seperate. Dr. White rolled his eyes today at Dr. Shafer's testimony.
Keep Watchin' :mrgreen:
This was a very interesting day. Ed is very well on the way creating reasonable doubt. I definitely need to rewatch since I had to do some other things in the meanwhile, but Shafer had to admit that all he did for 3 days was give his opinion. His outcome is a theory, based on testimonies and medical orders. Apparently he also found it more reasonable that Murray (let's not forget that Murray is supposed to be a cardiologist) would throw a propofol bottle in a cut IV bag instead of administering it the proper way, than that Alvarez might have given a false testimony. Alvarez's testimony didn't add up in the first place, so why would the bottle-in-bag theory be more reasonable than Alvarez lying? He also alleged that Murray might have hidden evidence (one of the IV lines) because according to his theory, Murray must have used an extra one, because he purchased such a thing (4 times over 3 years). Yet if Murray wanted to hide evidence, why was all the other stuff still on the ground and did he even pointed the police to the bag in the closet? Funny how he says that extreme claims need extreme proof, yet he had no extreme proof at all that his theory was in fact what really happened.
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Souza....I don't know what it's like in other areas of the world, but here in our little city in Michigan.....No one is allowed to take any electronic device into the courtroom. You have to go through a metal detector (just like they showed Michael going through during 2005 trial) and any cell phones either have to be taken to your car or left at the metal detector check in. I know this because my Mother in Law works at the courthouse as a court recorder, and my hubby works at our county jail as a corrections officer. My hubby can not even go into the courthouse with his cell phone...he has to leave it in our vehicle. I also have never heard of other witnesses being allowed in the courtroom while other testimony is being given....and they surely would not be allowed to have a laptop! It might be different in other courts, but that's how it is here!Love & Blessings to You All bearhug
Makes sense. Now it looks like as when the prosecution or the defense asks a question, the witness can say 'Hold on, let me Google that for you'...lolol/
This was a very interesting day. Ed is very well on the way creating reasonable doubt. I definitely need to rewatch since I had to do some other things in the meanwhile, but Shafer had to admit that all he did for 3 days was give his opinion. His outcome is a theory, based on testimonies and medical orders. Apparently he also found it more reasonable that Murray (let's not forget that Murray is supposed to be a cardiologist) would throw a propofol bottle in a cut IV bag instead of administering it the proper way, than that Alvarez might have given a false testimony. Alvarez's testimony didn't add up in the first place, so why would the bottle-in-bag theory be more reasonable than Alvarez lying? He also alleged that Murray might have hidden evidence (one of the IV lines) because according to his theory, Murray must have used an extra one, because he purchased such a thing (4 times over 3 years). Yet if Murray wanted to hide evidence, why was all the other stuff still on the ground and did he even pointed the police to the bag in the closet? Funny how he says that extreme claims need extreme proof, yet he had no extreme proof at all that his theory was in fact what really happened.
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
This was a very interesting day. Ed is very well on the way creating reasonable doubt. I definitely need to rewatch since I had to do some other things in the meanwhile, but Shafer had to admit that all he did for 3 days was give his opinion. His outcome is a theory, based on testimonies and medical orders. Apparently he also found it more reasonable that Murray (let's not forget that Murray is supposed to be a cardiologist) would throw a propofol bottle in a cut IV bag instead of administering it the proper way, than that Alvarez might have given a false testimony. Alvarez's testimony didn't add up in the first place, so why would the bottle-in-bag theory be more reasonable than Alvarez lying? He also alleged that Murray might have hidden evidence (one of the IV lines) because according to his theory, Murray must have used an extra one, because he purchased such a thing (4 times over 3 years). Yet if Murray wanted to hide evidence, why was all the other stuff still on the ground and did he even pointed the police to the bag in the closet? Funny how he says that extreme claims need extreme proof, yet he had no extreme proof at all that his theory was in fact what really happened.
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Looking how the trail evolves and what is the factual evidence (given death scene not guarded, Murray LAPD interview not being testimony under oath, sometimes conflicting testimonies from different witnesses) it all seems to be based on assumptions and opinions.
In my opinion the facts , as per trial, are:
The rest I guess is just all opinions and assumptions.
- MJ died due to cardiac arrest
- there was some equipment and medication found in MJ house
- Murray was seen in UCLA on 25th of June
- Murray ordered some medication and equipment including lots of propofol before 25th of June
- Alvarez called 911 at around 12.21
Please feel free to expand the list.
Looking how the trail evolves and what is the factual evidence (given death scene not guarded, Murray LAPD interview not being testimony under oath, sometimes conflicting testimonies from different witnesses) it all seems to be based on assumptions and opinions.
In my opinion the facts , as per trial, are:
The rest I guess is just all opinions and assumptions.
- MJ died due to cardiac arrest
- there was some equipment and medication found in MJ house
- Murray was seen in UCLA on 25th of June
- Murray ordered some medication and equipment including lots of propofol before 25th of June
- Alvarez called 911 at around 12.21
Please feel free to expand the list.
-Someone was getting CPR in the bedroom; on the bed, then on the floor.
-Ambulance was at 100 N.Carolwood, was trying to revive someone.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Souza....I don't know what it's like in other areas of the world, but here in our little city in Michigan.....No one is allowed to take any electronic device into the courtroom. You have to go through a metal detector (just like they showed Michael going through during 2005 trial) and any cell phones either have to be taken to your car or left at the metal detector check in. I know this because my Mother in Law works at the courthouse as a court recorder, and my hubby works at our county jail as a corrections officer. My hubby can not even go into the courthouse with his cell phone...he has to leave it in our vehicle. I also have never heard of other witnesses being allowed in the courtroom while other testimony is being given....and they surely would not be allowed to have a laptop! It might be different in other courts, but that's how it is here!Love & Blessings to You All bearhug
Here in Virginia it is the same regarding cell phones or any electronics. When I have to go to court I don't even bother bringing my cell phone in with me, I keep it in the car. A friend of mine forgot to take her Ipod out of her purse and she wasn't allowed to bring it in so she had to make another trip to the car. I can only imagine that if it's a strict rule about cell phones and little things like Ipods that they would be this way with all electronics. I hope this helps.
What equates fact?
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
I don't know what a fact in this hoax is anymore.
I do know that the events of 6/25/09 seem extremely unnecessary if it isn't all a big show. That body did a lot of public traveling that day. Every time "it" moved in the public eye was another chance of "it" getting discovered as a hoax. It was very risky and very very visible. It was almost certainly done on purpose, so it begs the question of why make the hoax the most difficult scenario to pull off that you can imagine? So many different people are bound to come into contact with that body, why so much risk? Why so much exposure? If MJ died at home he could have bypassed UCLA completely and left all those hospital employees, including doctors, out of the mix. Straight from paramedics to coroner, easy peasy. This is easier then taking the body to UCLA and needing to fool a whole bunch of people. But no. It was ascertained that the body would go to UCLA, Murray "insisted". So... why?
I say it's all for show, every last step, from ambulance backing out of Carrolwood, to UCLA, to helicopter, to coroner van, was all a show for us. Well, us and the media (which is fed by us) I mean. It was part of the movie, just like van video.
But that's not a fact either, of course, I'm just saying that makes more sense to me.
What equates fact?
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
They did have the dispatch sheet in court...the one where the paramedic wrote notes regarding their arrival time and Murray's alleged responses to any meds given prior to their arrival or known allergies...along with their subsequent treatment attempts. The cell records backed up when the call was placed so there wouldn't have been much reason to bring in the actual voluminous call logs from Fire Department Dispatch. If I recall...the dispatch record even showed the call initially going to another response agency and then being transferred to the proper one.
I don't know what a fact in this hoax is anymore.
I do know that the events of 6/25/09 seem extremely unnecessary if it isn't all a big show. That body did a lot of public traveling that day. Every time "it" moved in the public eye was another chance of "it" getting discovered as a hoax. It was very risky and very very visible. It was almost certainly done on purpose, so it begs the question of why make the hoax the most difficult scenario to pull off that you can imagine? So many different people are bound to come into contact with that body, why so much risk? Why so much exposure? If MJ died at home he could have bypassed UCLA completely and left all those hospital employees, including doctors, out of the mix. Straight from paramedics to coroner, easy peasy. This is easier then taking the body to UCLA and needing to fool a whole bunch of people. But no. It was ascertained that the body would go to UCLA, Murray "insisted". So... why?
Visible and risky...yes and no to varying degrees I'd say. This "process" had to be visible that day or it likely wouldn't have been taken seriously. We know it's a hoax...but for the hoax to have it's greatest impact the majority needs to first believe what they're being told. If there had been no coverage of these movements would anybody believe he had died? The ambulance, the helicopter and the van contained limited numbers of people...(all of whom are employed by governmental entities by the way). The only place that the "body" appeared that day where there was (supposedly) a large number of people was the ER. Once that stretcher got through the doors at UCLA we only have testimony that it was taken into an ER room where numerous doctors and nurses converged. What if it was only taken to a private room with a story that it was a VIP situation with limited access? Unless I missed something we only heard a version of events from 2 doctors. Where's the support staff...where's the big cheese that gave the okay for the balloon pump? Also...if I remember correctly...the staff was threatened with immediate termination if they spoke out with information regarding this case. So basically what I'm saying is that while it was necessary for credibility to have this massive media coverage of these movements...the actual risk of discovery may have been limited to fewer than it appears...and most of those may have been selected specifically and given their orders in advance.
I say it's all for show, every last step, from ambulance backing out of Carrolwood, to UCLA, to helicopter, to coroner van, was all a show for us. Well, us and the media (which is fed by us) I mean. It was part of the movie, just like van video.
But that's not a fact either, of course, I'm just saying that makes more sense to me.
What equates fact?
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
They did have the dispatch sheet in court...the one where the paramedic wrote notes regarding their arrival time and Murray's alleged responses to any meds given prior to their arrival or known allergies...along with their subsequent treatment attempts. The cell records backed up when the call was placed so there wouldn't have been much reason to bring in the actual voluminous call logs from Fire Department Dispatch. If I recall...the dispatch record even showed the call initially going to another response agency and then being transferred to the proper one.
TS, will you post when pros rests and defense starts?
Maybe....
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Also i have noticed most people on here use the letters (TS) what does that mean?? its been bugging me! Thanks. :)
The 2005 verdict was read at 2:25pm (Eastern time)...and he 'died' at 2:26pm. Maybe this will also 'tie' in with the 'time' the verdict is read...if it's read on Oct 31st. The 'fire alarm' going off in court at exactly 2:26pm might have been a clue as to 'timing'.
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
Seems that nobody answered this.
If you want to spend a few days reading long posts about the hoax, see TIAI Revealed and Updates posted by my username, TS.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=125 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=125)
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
OK - TS, I am officially lost with this bit in red.....have I missed something? :lol:
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
That says "approximately ..." (and yes, it does say PDT, or CA time--not Eastern time).
Also, does every other report agree with the 2:25 time?
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Hmm.. i found a live blog from AOLTv, it updates the first verdict being read at 5:13, so maybe it wasn't at :25
http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/ (http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/)
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."Wouldn't that beat all. afraid/
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
TS = The Suspect lolol/Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."Wouldn't that beat all. afraid/
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/GoldStar.jpg)
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784)
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg (http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg)
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg (http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg)
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475)}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
Mystery person being Michael since he is not dead and therefor they did not take prints from his dead fingers. Still not proof of murder. But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?
Hmm.. i found a live blog from AOLTv, it updates the first verdict being read at 5:13, so maybe it wasn't at :25
http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/ (http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/)
That would be 5:13 Eastern time, or 2:13 CA time, right?
The 2005 verdict was read at 2:25pm (Eastern time)...and he 'died' at 2:26pm. Maybe this will also 'tie' in with the 'time' the verdict is read...if it's read on Oct 31st. The 'fire alarm' going off in court at exactly 2:26pm might have been a clue as to 'timing'.
Can you document the 2:25pm time? And was it Eastern time, or CA time? Does everyone else agree with the 2:25pm timing?
Thanks.
"Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!" TS you say that you are Conrad Murray? respect/ You really want to put a shock into people you should say you are Tupac Shakur. afraid/ lol .I will make one more prediction" This is still far from over!" What you have just witnessed could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare.
TS, will you post when pros rests and defense starts?
Maybe....
Good guess.
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
I'm sorry TS the seal is not a evidence ... you could call it a neglect ....
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8383/selloca.png)
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Yes, it is true suspicious//
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Hmmm... I don't know what to say about these 32 stars now (I have been counting them several times again lol). I don't know why they photoshopped someone ... they could have waited for the person to be available... :? .. it seems strange to me and the work done is not good at all. I find it odd that there is a fake seal + a photoshop input on the same picture.
Now we must keep things in perspective and see that the fake seal + the "Michael" album artwork connected are clues for us to know that it was all planned. It's not something usual to have such a big "mistake". I don't know if one intent was to show us that the whole court is fake, but if it is then most probably a fake seal would not be enough, maybe that other parameters must be taken into account and considered. Obviously it's not enough given that these people on the picture are smiling under a "fake" seal. :|
Maybe that someone should tell them?
p.s.: how did you find that Paula? lolol/
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Hmmm... I don't know what to say about these 32 stars now (I have been counting them several times again lol). I don't know why they photoshopped someone ... they could have waited for the person to be available... :? .. it seems strange to me and the work done is not good at all. I find it odd that there is a fake seal + a photoshop input on the same picture.
Now we must keep things in perspective and see that the fake seal + the "Michael" album artwork connected are clues for us to know that it was all planned. It's not something usual to have such a big "mistake". I don't know if one intent was to show us that the whole court is fake, but if it is then most probably a fake seal would not be enough, maybe that other parameters must be taken into account and considered. Obviously it's not enough given that these people on the picture are smiling under a "fake" seal. :|
Maybe that someone should tell them?
p.s.: how did you find that Paula? lolol/
Sarah, in my opinion, the person inserted there is important as the rest of them and needed to be there. Probably there was a reunion at which he couldn't take part and gathering so many important people is not easy. For me, there's nothing strange with him inserted in the photo.
I checked all the documents from http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjreports.html (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjreports.html) and in each pdf.-doc. there is 1 photo with the whole jury but only in the 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 they stay in the room which has the seal with 32 stars. In the rest of the docs. they are almost always photographed outside the court except 2005-2006 where they stay in another room, bellow the great seal that has [dot]31 stars[/dot]. Why only in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 we see 32 stars in the great seal?
It's absurd. It's the COURT, it's not a drawing you show in class or a fake coin with the great seal that you pretend to sell. It's the COURT and thinking it deeper, on every possible aspect, after reading about California's history of admission as the 31st state, I find it impossible to be just a mistake made by the one who designed the seal for the room. Outside the court, right up in front of the entrance, if you search for photos, you will find the sign with 31 stars. This is cannot be a mistake... My logic refuses to understand such thing.
Go and check every doc. and see what I'm talking about. Only in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 they are photographed in that room with the 32 stars seal.
coincidence "Michael" album cover
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784)
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg (http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg)
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg (http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg)
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475)}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet?
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bGAChJ_K9c[/youtube]
oh I just wanted to say that thing with the stripes on the seal that are similar with the stripes on MJ on the album cover is an amazing coincidence. Even the extra star is there WTF??
This photo is taken directly from the grandjury.co.la There is one photo of these people in the 2009-2010 document which doesn't have anyone photoshoped in it and still they are in front of the same 32 stars seal.
I DO find it highly strange that only in the documents from 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 we find the jury photographed in front of a 32 stars seal. And I certainly doubt the photo is a joke as I doubt about this all being a game and that's why for me it never was and never will be. The 32 stars seal must have a serious reason and I find it so hard to understand how could such an important thing as the seal of a state, IN a court, have a so stupid mistake in it.
Edit: I downloaded a high resolution right now. There's something off there, the size scale of the 3 people in the very back. They are off size, not natural size compared to the angle. They are in the back, so they will look smaller, but not that much, they are too small.
The off people in the photo, in my opinion, are:
- The white haired man on the right
- the group of 4 people from behind: the man at the desk, the one at his right, the one behind him and the woman at his left. - Their dimensions are too little regarding the whole enviroment and the rest of the people. The seem photographed from a bigger distance not just from the rest of the people, but from anything in the room.
Of course, this is not justifying the 32 star seal.
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
this just dawned on me:
if there is an actual jury, they must be getting some kind of huge compensation if this is a fake trial, a jury in La county only receives 40$ a day, for 5 days that is only 200$...they had to take absence from their jobs and I'm sure some make more than minimum wage.
Makes you think, how they are getting paid and who is paying them?
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
@ PureLove /bravo/ THANKS for the video! ... I needed that. :lol:
PureLove....I needed that! Great video : ) Thank you!
Blessings to you always!
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Thank you. I've got an opinion about the photoshopped people in the picture. Maybe they couldn't go to the photo shooting and missed it and they were added to the picture with photoshop later. This can be the explanation of it. But what is the explanation of 32 stars in the seal?
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Thank you. I've got an opinion about the photoshopped people in the picture. Maybe they couldn't go to the photo shooting and missed it and they were added to the picture with photoshop later. This can be the explanation of it. But what is the explanation of 32 stars in the seal?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/cat_girl25/disguise_NA.png)
I had forgotten something, which seems to them this photo?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220)
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
It's impossible to prove a living man is dead. ;)
I don't like throwing people's words back at them (momma said that's rude ;) )...but TS, if your 'purpose' at this time is to seriously try to defend the murder theory...you can start by debunking everything you've written since day one (it would save me a lot of copying and pasting :lol: ).
With L.O.V.E. always.
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
That says "approximately ..." (and yes, it does say PDT, or CA time--not Eastern time).
Also, does every other report agree with the 2:25 time?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBDnaf_9mYc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/user/MJJRnetQuotePart 1/5: A comprehensive, independently created 40+ minute special about the full acquittal of Michael Jackson in 2005. The special includes hundreds of news segments from many networks, the full verdict reading, front pages from around the world, interviews with the jury, lawyers, prosecutors, friends, and talking heads galore. An emotional journey.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkAysa3h-0&feature=related[/youtube]
Contents:
01 - Introduction
02 - Deliberation Process
03 - Verdict Reached
04 - The Verdict
05 - The Aftermath
06 - Front Pages From Around the World
07 - Credits
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SlDIsewumw&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-1ppmBIWww&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT6KkGmIE-A&feature=related[/youtube]
I absolutely love these videos. I had no idea of the jury clock, whoa!
Someone is eating Crow, lol
They will be having Crow for breakfast, lunch and dinner ALL over again.
8-)
Peace
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead
wow that was very satisfying and also 'imaginative' TS. would'nt you agree souza? ;D
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead
wow that was very satisfying and also 'imaginative' TS. would'nt you agree souza? ;D
No, FAAAAAAAAAR from satisfying. He has to come up with something better. **pokes TS**
If one part of that pic is photoshopped then none of the content is reliable.
And I think it's obvious at least one part of that pic is photoshopped.
Considering no one wanted to talk to me on the phone about 32 stars being on the state seal, I don't think we need to worry too much about this pic. The seals they use on the walls are not one-of-a-kinds. They are machine produced. An extra star does not appear on a court house's state seal by accident.
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
OMG! OMG! How about if he will prove Michael is alive?/ Why do you always think negative? Gina felicia I will tell you something, does it ever happen to you when you think negative your day is always upside down, bad things happens? If you are positive one day every thing good happens? You attract goodness? So try to see the bright side of the situation. Michael is alive. I understand with this trial, it is going more through Michael is dead, but reality is that Michael hoaxed his death, and they have to play the game that he is dead. Please No more negativity.... blessings.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/michael2.png)
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/GoldStar.jpg)
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this}, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
If one part of that pic is photoshopped then none of the content is reliable.
And I think it's obvious at least one part of that pic is photoshopped.
Considering no one wanted to talk to me on the phone about 32 stars being on the state seal, I don't think we need to worry too much about this pic. The seals they use on the walls are not one-of-a-kinds. They are machine produced. An extra star does not appear on a court house's state seal by accident.
There is another photo from 2010-2011 with the 32 seal and in that one no one is photoshopped in it.
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6775/31602942.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/31602942.jpg/)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6753/212ox.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/212ox.jpg/)
So, according to the recent testimony, the phone call to 911 was place at 12:20:18pm. Can TS elaborate on this? Of course this is a major issue in the numerology presented by TS and others where the time the call was made was at 12:21pm (End of the world...etc) bangbang :?
If one part of that pic is photoshopped then none of the content is reliable.I agree the tiny people in the back are way too small, so photoshop for sure. Anything official you would think should not be tampered with. Just wondering if there is any pic of the judge and seal behind him in the 2005 trial? If it is the same 32 stars seal that would be interesting. What about OJ’s trial, how many stars in the seal? Weren't they both on the 9th floor and the media on the 12th floor of the same building? About TS really wanting the verified time of the 2005 trial verdict given, maybe he wants to point out how completely difficult it is to really nail anything down as 100% solid fact in modern times. So much doctoring of pics, stories--the everchanging face of history. We know how in this Murray trial how hard it is to nail anything down. suspicious//
The gavel IMO represents MJ's trial in 2005 because of what side it is on during MJ's life. There is the picture of MJ above the gavel that looks like how he did during the trial and it is on fire. The gavel pic just so happens to work out for Murray's trial also. LMAO Nice try.
Senneff in his testimony on Day 4, goes through, line by line, the teletype print out regarding the 911 call.
He explains line 3 says '12:21 is the time the call came into our despatch centre'. Line 6, '12:22 is the time the alarm comes into the station'. (I'm watching it again now to check) Then he gets confused and doesn't know what Beverley Hills PD means and referring to the last two lines of the print out he confirms Ms Brazil's statement that '12:21:04 is the call originating perhaps through the Beverley Hills PD that was then transfered to the closest responding unit'.
Did I miss something - where did 12:20 come from?
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Senneff in his testimony on Day 4, goes through, line by line, the teletype print out regarding the 911 call.
He explains line 3 says '12:21 is the time the call came into our despatch centre'. Line 6, '12:22 is the time the alarm comes into the station'. (I'm watching it again now to check) Then he gets confused and doesn't know what Beverley Hills PD means and referring to the last two lines of the print out he confirms Ms Brazil's statement that '12:21:04 is the call originating perhaps through the Beverley Hills PD that was then transfered to the closest responding unit'.
Did I miss something - where did 12:20 come from?
Hello Curls,
I have written it down as she speaks, thats the way i came to this 12:20:26 picked up phone, 12:20:46 Total time.
I heard it myself, i wear a headphone when im listening to the trial so i was very certain on this one.Still i could have misheard it, then i apologise for bringing confusion.
Love to you
bearhug
@wishingstar you are too nice, thank you.
I missed the surveillance tape.
PS: I am not negative. I just feel like I don't know Michael anymore. I only thought I knew him.
@wishingstar you are too nice, thank you.
I missed the surveillance tape.
PS: I am not negative. I just feel like I don't know Michael anymore. I only thought I knew him.
Nobody knows Michael. Michael let's us know what he wants us to know. That is his perogative to do so.. We have no business in knowing every aspect in his life. So enjoy what you know of him and especially the good things like Humantarian.. I missed the surveillance tape too.. Michael is alive I feel it in my bones.. blessings.
This clearily shows the call wasnt placed at 12.21.04 as TS insistes it was. He said the button was pressed at 12.21.04 and NOT earlier,to be sure its not 12.20. This means this theory falls. Together with the others tied to it.
I need to add a P.S. to that post ^^
Alberto Alvarez's timing of the call, if the purpose was to get 12:21 in somewhere, is made even harder when allowing for this extra connection time. Hmmm suspicious//
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
I'm not sure what there is to figure out. The 911 call that is of value to us and to the trial is the conversation between Alvarez and the call center operator. THAT call/conversation began a few seconds after 12:21. THAT is the call we've been listening to for 2+ years. Not sure what is causing confusion here.
But for those that are SO sure that what they heard in court yesterday debunks TS (and everything he's brought forth for 2 years now)...the $999 is still open as far as I know. With Xmas coming...why not try to debunk TS with REAL evidence and win some spending $ for your trouble?
With L.O.V.E. always.
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang
We know the 911 call was placed, for hoax/numerology purposes, at 12:21. Even if it was made at 12:20, it was widely reported as being placed at 12:21 and we have the screen shot to back it up. If the screen shot and reports are false, then it was done to suit the hoax. If this was not a hoax, the time of the call would not be a deliberate timing, as it obviously is. It could also be the this hoax/sting court is trying to disprove the hoax (while proving it at the same time)- another test of faith, as it were.Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 (or correct me; it was 18 or 26, but anyway, within 12;20 still) but in TIAI update was stated that the phone call was pressed at 12:21:04 exactly, to be sure you have almost a whole minute to redial if the line is busy. From the media we all got the 12:21 but you would know, being in the inside, that you called at 12:20. That's what I say. It doesn't matter it was reported in media.
First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call. Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through. So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.
This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
How is it that they got that angle and so clear of picture of the firetruck screen anyways? I have seen different versions...some clear, some not so clear. This version is among the clearest....almost too clear. I know Ben talked about it in his video....lol..."his video" like his 30 seconds of fame, lol. I feel things are changing and being revealed.....not as in murder, TS......as in just change and reveal. It's making us re-think everything......
hey, BeTheChange.....get the merlot out, lol!
Blessings
Again, I feel I have to mention this before someone might make assumptions: I am not here to debunk anyone, and just because I very rarely post in this thread doesn't mean I don't read it. And most importantly, I am not throwing statements with no base. If anything, I want the truth and the fact is the phone call was pressed at 12:20:26, not 12:21.
I know exactly what I say and numerology can be both good and bad, depending on who uses it. I think that all of us who have learned a lot about the NWO/Illuminati know this. This is serious, not an useless pleasure in bashing/debunking anything. It's serious.
What I mean: TIAI in one way or another pushed the idea of 12:21 that ties with the other numerology (because that's what was available at that time. We were not there, in the room, to know more than what we saw on the screen photo. Only the ones in the inside would know they didn't wait 4 seconds after 12:21 to place the call as the screenshot clearily shows 12:20); if the phone call was placed at 12:20:26 then the statement in the TIAI quote above is wrong. Why?
Is anyone understanding what I say?
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang
Again, I feel I have to mention this before someone might make assumptions: I am not here to debunk anyone, and just because I very rarely post in this thread doesn't mean I don't read it. And most importantly, I am not throwing statements with no base. If anything, I want the truth and the fact is the phone call was pressed at 12:20:26, not 12:21.
I know exactly what I say and numerology can be both good and bad, depending on who uses it. I think that all of us who have learned a lot about the NWO/Illuminati know this. This is serious, not an useless pleasure in bashing/debunking anything. It's serious.
What I mean: TIAI in one way or another pushed the idea of 12:21 that ties with the other numerology (because that's what was available at that time. We were not there, in the room, to know more than what we saw on the screen photo. Only the ones in the inside would know they didn't wait 4 seconds after 12:21 to place the call as the screenshot clearily shows 12:20); if the phone call was placed at 12:20:26 then the statement in the TIAI quote above is wrong. Why?
Is anyone understanding what I say?
so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call . Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through (me: from Alvarez, obviously). So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.
Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.
Im_Convinced(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/V-1.jpg)QuoteThe gavel IMO represents MJ's trial in 2005 because of what side it is on during MJ's life. There is the picture of MJ above the gavel that looks like how he did during the trial and it is on fire. The gavel pic just so happens to work out for Murray's trial also. LMAO Nice try.
I don't understand. All I see is right above the gavel bubble in the tree with the snake, is 2009 Michael in This Is It, which would pertain to this Murray trial.
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
This does look like Nicole Alvarez. Same hair line, ears, brow and jaw line. So our actors are playing more than one role. If this isn't Nicole, she is a really good and I mean good double.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/cat_girl25/disguise_NA.png)
I had forgotten something, which seems to them this photo?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220)
How is it that they got that angle and so clear of picture of the firetruck screen anyways? I have seen different versions...some clear, some not so clear. This version is among the clearest....almost too clear. I know Ben talked about it in his video....lol..."his video" like his 30 seconds of fame, lol. I feel things are changing and being revealed.....not as in murder, TS......as in just change and reveal. It's making us re-think everything......
hey, BeTheChange.....get the merlot out, lol!
Blessings
LOL...we may end up needing some of those IV lines that Chernoff was playing with the other day...ingesting the merlot may not 'cut it' before long :lol: . Maybe they can even give us that dried up weed they found in MJ's bedroom...every little bit helps lol.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I think TS is mocking us because we (at least some of us) were examining Murray so closely as being Michael in disguise--maybe he thought it was funny IDK! (TS=Murray) For 2 years he has carefully set us on track in this incredible death hoax, and now is kicking back having some fun--maybe killing time till the trial verdict. Or he has some purpose that only hindsight will reveal to us. We'll have to keep watching. I love your style TS. (Maybe-- The Star!)
What difference does it make if a witness say something different about the calling time? Geez! Guys, seriously! WTF?? We saw that it is 12:21 on the fire truck's screen, so who cares if it was made on 12:20 or 12:25??? And WHY? The clue was given with 12:21 and we SAW it literally on the screen. So that's it. The case is closed. Why need to dig it up and bring the case to TS' reliability after 2 years??? After all of the things TS showed and PROVED, what else do you want as a "solid" proof from him to become sure of his credibility? Everything is in front of your eyes, THOUSANDS of clues were given, what else do you want???
This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
It's impossible to prove a living man is dead. ;)
@mjfan7 - just wanted to say that i ♥your spritely confidence and positivity respect/
You guys may laugh but TS is pretty convincing to me with this proof errrr .
/overreacting/
What difference does it make if a witness say something different about the calling time? Geez! Guys, seriously! WTF?? We saw that it is 12:21 on the fire truck's screen, so who cares if it was made on 12:20 or 12:25??? And WHY? The clue was given with 12:21 and we SAW it literally on the screen. So that's it. The case is closed. Why need to dig it up and bring the case to TS' reliability after 2 years??? After all of the things TS showed and PROVED, what else do you want as a "solid" proof from him to become sure of his credibility? Everything is in front of your eyes, THOUSANDS of clues were given, what else do you want???
What's the difference? A very important one. To 12:21 911 call are tied a lot of calculations, which could fall right now and I am one of those who found a logic in these calculations. If a piece is wrong, the whole building can go down. So these falling down right now are important and I cannot pretend I didn't notice.
Nobody is here to debunk anyone. I, as probably others, ask when we do not understand or we find something off, like in the case with the time of the 911 call. I read again today what TS wrote about this, and as it is different from what we've been informed by the witnesses in court, I stated an opinion.
So, TS said:
QuoteThis explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
What I said was simply that these two versions do not match. I wasn't there, nobody from here was there, and as a person from inside (as TS is supposed, so far, to be) you know more than what's said in the media. So, you go straight ahead with a theory and with a long chain of calculations but what if they are proven wrong or if inconsistenes surface? Like here. Refuse or avoid an answer is weird and out of place at this stage, because a lot of us, even if many don't post anymore, want to find the truth of all this.
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang your i
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture of computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
Second: No where in this update does it mention that Alvarez was the caller at all...it just says "caller". Now you can ASSume it was Alvarez because we have heard the recording of the call, however since everything in this is an illusion/distraction/staged then who really knows.
Third: Yesterday after Cherilyn Lee's testimony when she was getting conused around the date March 9th (3/9) it reminded me of TS Update #4 and the 999 (three 9's) so I went back and re-read it. It's worthwhile re-reading all parts (a,b,c and d) again keeping in mind the context of the current trial. Part 4d is really interesting in terms of what is currently going on with TS trying to support the murder theory....I think he's just having a little "play" with us (in a good way of course)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7194.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7194.0.html)
And here are the links to the other parts of Update #4:
4A: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.0.html)
4B: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7064.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7064.0.html)
4C: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7124.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7124.0.html)
What difference does it make if a witness say something different about the calling time? Geez! Guys, seriously! WTF?? We saw that it is 12:21 on the fire truck's screen, so who cares if it was made on 12:20 or 12:25??? And WHY? The clue was given with 12:21 and we SAW it literally on the screen. So that's it. The case is closed. Why need to dig it up and bring the case to TS' reliability after 2 years??? After all of the things TS showed and PROVED, what else do you want as a "solid" proof from him to become sure of his credibility? Everything is in front of your eyes, THOUSANDS of clues were given, what else do you want??? What else do you need to be sure that Michael is alive? /pull hair/
I admire the patience of TS that he is still trying to explain himself and the things he had said 2 years ago. Unfortunately I lost my patience to give the weak ones hope every time they lose their faith, and to tell and explain everything we have found till today. I did it several several and several times and I feel myself tired to keep on explaining the same things. I wish I had some more patience to discuss the same issues but I don't. Even if I had the patience and more time to do it, I lost my hope in some of the believers that they will be seeing the truth and become a firm and strong believer, a knower maybe someday. I don't believe that they will make it before Michael comes back. So, I do not feel like explaining everything once and once more. Therefore I'm not joining these ridiculous "TS debunk this" " TS said this but it is this" kind of discussions. Everything is clear to me and they can be clear to you too. It's just in your hands and it is your choice.
End of rant.
The Sign, I trust you and I love you. Thank you a million times for everything you have been doing for us. Love and bearhug
We know the 911 call was placed, for hoax/numerology purposes, at 12:21. Even if it was made at 12:20, it was widely reported as being placed at 12:21 and we have the screen shot to back it up. If the screen shot and reports are false, then it was done to suit the hoax. If this was not a hoax, the time of the call would not be a deliberate timing, as it obviously is. It could also be the this hoax/sting court is trying to disprove the hoax (while proving it at the same time)- another test of faith, as it were.Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 (or correct me; it was 18 or 26, but anyway, within 12;20 still) but in TIAI update was stated that the phone call was pressed at 12:21:04 exactly, to be sure you have almost a whole minute to redial if the line is busy. From the media we all got the 12:21 but you would know, being in the inside, that you called at 12:20. That's what I say. It doesn't matter it was reported in media.
I will edit the post and copy-paste TS's words.
TS's words:QuoteFirst, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call. Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through. So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.
This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
Why is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
For the record: I did not call anyone stupid, nor did I address anyone in particular. Those who I did address know who they are and if you think you are not a TS debunker, then there is no need to feel addressed.
QuoteWhy is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
QuoteWhy is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture on the computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
I wasn't going to add any more to this discussion, but I will, because this 12:20 thing is still puzzling me. I'm certainly not TS bashing, I simply want to dissect it, as he has indeed always urged us to do. If the 12:21 thing is solid then no-one should have anything to fear, or get irritated by others questioning how this new info fits in.it has always intrigued me how this subject seems to float into almost every statement some of these people make. why? what is the purpose? so much overkill in this area.
Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!
So, what's puzzling me is this:
With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21
It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!
It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!
Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?
/pull hair/
On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!
I was also thinking that someone else was involved in this 911 call because it's a fake emergency, and in order to avoid problems it mustn't be just a normal call made by Alvarez. We already said in the previous levels that some key people in the LAFD are involved. The document presented and showing the supposed path of this call makes it even more of a wonder that they received it at exactly 12:21. pm. smiley_spider Something happened between 12:20:50 and 12:21:03. suspicious// LOL it's a bumpy 911 call trajectory.All it shows is contradictions left and right which to me only screams even more to everyone that something just ain't right. Maybe it is just there are two sides pulling for there own truth to come out one is the Illuminati version which is trying to block mjs version of the story. But you cant block the truth forever. There has been a lot of contradictions through out this whole 2 1/2 years why would it stop now? We have heard it many times during these years "The truth will prevail!".
QuoteWhy is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
RK, no deviation.
Audition time is not over yet. Michael works only with the best.
He cannot afford any other level since he must be able to fully (150%) rely on what his team is doing will be correct and exactly what he wants.
This disappearance is rehearsal only for the world outside.
There will be times when all we've learned in these years of trying the spin will be of essential and vital value and desperately needed. Reality is much more complex and cruel at times than we might imagine.
Michael needs the strong at heart for his army's tasks in the world that are really challenging.
That's why this training is so tough.
Education time is not over yet. Michael wants us to discover our talents.
"We wanna show them talent that they've never seen before."
So let's try the difficult over and over again and we will be amazed in retrospective about what WE were capable of that we never imagined before.
That's why we are exercising so much.
Discovery time is not over yet. Michael wants to keep us hooked.
If it were easy, we would lose interest, right?
If we come back to our love inside of us, back to the positive energy inside of us, if we allow our good inside to awaken and to LIVE, EVERYTHING is possible for the better.
A brain is useful but without a heart it is nothing.
That's why we are thrown back on ourselves so often.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related)
It is all about L.O.V.E.
Blessings and much love to everybody.
You are all needed, each one of you, in the strongest belief and faith and love possible and who ever gets into swaggering - watch Elvis' and Michael's last videos and see how they were swaggering before reaching out and just doing it.
bearhug
SimPatty, could you pls post the vids of Elvis' last concert and how he came in backstage drinking his coke and Michael's walking into O2 conference since I have a schedule right now?
Thank you so much!
I just want to say this trial so far looks more like a joke than a real trial.
I am not very familiar with the trials but if I were the judge I would strongly OBJECT to wasting everybody's time with so UNRELEVANT discussions.
To me looks like both the prosecution and the defense score very little points in regard to the subject of the trial, this being to determine if Conrad Murray is guilty for involuntarly manslaughter.
For example last evening. They questiond Randy Phillips about the press conf, the preparations for the shows etc., so many things with no relevance in proving anything.
Why is this happening?
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
Sometimes I just feel he might be right.
Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!
So, what's puzzling me is this:
With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21
It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!
It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!
Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?
/pull hair/
On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!
@Souza...excellent, excellent post. Hopefully that will ease some concern/confusion.
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around! You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers.
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure. Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there. Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith. I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back. I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front. It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.
EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
HLN just said that "THIS COULD ALL REALLY TURN OUT TO BE A CONSPIRACY AFTER ALL"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Yes from what I recall Sophie was fine at the end.
Did LaToya actually say this?? About Illusionist?
Guys, has any of you seen The Illusionist? I didn't, so I need to digg into the plot more now.
A few ideas that i read so far:
-Leopold finds out from Uhl, who was following the couple, that Sophie has met with Eisenheim. While drunk, Leopold confronts Sophie and accuses her of being a whore. She tells him that she will not marry him or have anything to do with his plan. When she attempts to leave, he appears to murder her in the stables with a sword cut across her neck. Unfortunately, Leopold's royal status makes any accusations against him unthinkable, despite an existing belief among the people that Leopold has murdered a woman in the past. As Eisenheim plunges into despair and the citizens of Vienna begin to suspect Leopold of Sophie's murder, Uhl observes Eisenheim's actions more closely on behalf of Leopold.
-In the next scene, Uhl is shown leaving the Imperial Palace. After he takes a few steps, a boy (Elias Bauer) runs up to hand him a folio labeled "Orange Tree." This time, the "Orange Tree" folio is filled with plans detailing a geared mechanism to make the tree "grow". Uhl demands to know where the child obtained the folio; the child reveals that Eisenheim had given it to him. Uhl spots Eisenheim wearing a disguise and follows him to the train station. After the chase, a montage shows Uhl piecing together how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed the Crown Prince. And while one may think that Uhl would be enraged at Eisenheim, he is actually very much amused. Meanwhile, Eisenheim is seen walking up to a house in the country where Sophie is waiting for him.
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
The script was based loosely on "Eisenheim the Illusionist", a short story by Steven Millhauser from Millhauser's 1990 collection The Barnum Museum.
I do have some questions about The Illusionists though.
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
I do have some questions about The Illusionists though.
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
I do have some questions about The Illusionists though.
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
They are two movies. One is from 2006 and another one from 2010 (this is a french movie) which is an animated one and this one is a comedy as far as I understand, and it's really not very complex in subject. I suppose she's talking about the 2006 version which is complex and which is about death and the illusion of a staged death. I doubt she reffered to the animated movie from 2010, as it is really not about anything complex or related to what we live now.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443543/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443543/)
Just my 2 cents regarding the call and timing.
As I understand after listening the different scenarios about the call, it came to mind that the call was made "on time" but was "received" or answered much later leading to a dangerous outcome. This would mean that the system is not efficient. We are talking about an emergency here. It can happen to anybody in need of an ambulance or urgent medical assistance.
The call follows a protocol of being forwarded accordingly and, it has not been the 1st time I read about non efficient personnel asking the wrong questions delaying the medical assistance.
A call could have been made "on time" but answered or handled with a mortal delay.
On another note, there are many layers in the trial but all of them points towards one end---> negligence, abandonment and lack of concern and care but not especially from Murray to Michael but from everyone towards MJ, from AEG to workers.
I just want to say this trial so far looks more like a joke than a real trial.
I am not very familiar with the trials but if I were the judge I would strongly OBJECT to wasting everybody's time with so UNRELEVANT discussions.
To me looks like both the prosecution and the defense score very little points in regard to the subject of the trial, this being to determine if Conrad Murray is guilty for involuntarly manslaughter.
For example last evening. They questiond Randy Phillips about the press conf, the preparations for the shows etc., so many things with no relevance in proving anything.
Why is this happening?
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
Sometimes I just feel he might be right.
Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.
Here is the complete call:
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9 (http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9)"></iframe>
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news)" target="_blank">Conrad Murray Trial: 911 call played in court door <a href=";http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews (http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews)" target="_blank">itnnews
I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone vompany stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
@paula - maybe I* am wrong but from my point of view a trial has to have "technical" proofs.
That's what I would expect. The dramatic effects shouldn't count, not for the prosecution and not for the defense.
For the record: I did not call anyone stupid, nor did I address anyone in particular. Those who I did address know who they are and if you think you are not a TS debunker, then there is no need to feel addressed.
Thank you Souza for your reply,
I know you didn't call me stupid, that's not what i meant, i meant you can call me even stupid if you want, but i'm not a TS debunker.
(i hope i make myself clear on this one).
I love reading TS posts, and updates, and the posts of other members as well.
i believed in TS a long time ago.
Keep the FAITH :)
There are a LOT of us here for the family and love.
For the record: I did not call anyone stupid, nor did I address anyone in particular. Those who I did address know who they are and if you think you are not a TS debunker, then there is no need to feel addressed.
Thank you Souza for your reply,
I know you didn't call me stupid, that's not what i meant, i meant you can call me even stupid if you want, but i'm not a TS debunker.
(i hope i make myself clear on this one).
I love reading TS posts, and updates, and the posts of other members as well.
i believed in TS a long time ago.
Keep the FAITH :)
There are a LOT of us here for the family and love.
Is there anyway to check to see if two 911 calls were made on that day ; one at around 10:30 and then the famous one?
Audition time is not over yet. Michael works only with the best.
He cannot afford any other level since he must be able to fully (150%) rely on what his team is doing will be correct and exactly what he wants.
This disappearance is rehearsal only for the world outside.
There will be times when all we've learned in these years of trying the spin will be of essential and vital value and desperately needed. Reality is much more complex and cruel at times than we might imagine.
Michael needs the strong at heart for his army's tasks in the world that are really challenging.
That's why this training is so tough Education time is not over yet. Michael wants us to discover our talents.
"We wanna show them talent that they've never seen before."
So let's try the difficult over and over again and we will be amazed in retrospective about what WE were capable of that we never imagined before.
That's why we are exercising so much.
Discovery time is not over yet. Michael wants to keep us hooked.
If it were easy, we would lose interest, right?
If we come back to our love inside of us, back to the positive energy inside of us, if we allow our good inside to awaken and to LIVE, EVERYTHING is possible for the better.
A brain is useful but without a heart it is nothing.
That's why we are thrown back on ourselves so often .
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.
Here is the complete call:
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9 (http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9)"></iframe>
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news)" target="_blank">Conrad Murray Trial: 911 call played in court door <a href=";http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews (http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews)" target="_blank">itnnews
I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
This is for LaToya : (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/VAAFF2%7E1.GIF)
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes.(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Boissons/0014.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/youpi-12.gif) (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Boissons/0014.gif)
[. . . . ]?
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes. I'm not saying let's forget about everything and have fun all the time but we need to have fun too sometimes. I want every each of you to be happy! We deserve it! And the clue Latoya gave is amazing, so let's enjoy it for a moment, shall we?
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)
(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.I love your sarcastic sense of humor. I get the jokes. rr/ :lol:
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
This text below is from an excerpt of Jermaine's book You Are Not Alone.Quotehttp://www.scribd.com/doc/64810485/You-Are-Not-Alone-ExcerptWhich means NO ONE could have known his plans and NO ONE could execute them except MJ himself.
From the eighties, nobody knew about a lot of what he created until its execution, but the idea or concept was written down somewhere he could see it daily, or recited into a voice recorder as a visualisation he could see or hear.
He didn’t share ideas because he didn’t want anyone to interfere; he relied on mental strength for his focus. Think it, see it, believe it, make it happen.
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.The 32 stars in the seal would not get them out of trouble either by saying it was all for a movie. ;)
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7.
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending onThis is not really a guess but more like an awareness of the milestones and 2 have yet to pass. 11-11-11 is coming up soon and I highly doubt Bamsday and/or level 7 is happening then, it is to soon. The court case isn't even done yet. The other date is farther away and even though I doubt that will be Bamsday and/or level 7, I do find it interesting and relevant because you made mention of it. So it says to me that we will at least have to make it to 12-12-12. Whatever happens I got a hand, finger and toe holding on to the end. respect/9-9-09,10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes. I'm not saying let's forget about everything and have fun all the time but we need to have fun too sometimes. I want every each of you to be happy! We deserve it! And the clue Latoya gave is amazing, so let's enjoy it for a moment, shall we?
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)
(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
@Souza...excellent, excellent post. Hopefully that will ease some concern/confusion.
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around! You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers.
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure. Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there. Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith. I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back. I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front. It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.
EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
/bravo/
Amazing tie to Michael's words....he took it to the next level. It's up to us now....absolutely brilliant.
I love Indiana Jones..........this part in particular has always given me the highest degree of goosebumps possible : )
Leap of faith....we are walking across this hoax like a cavern of death. It doesn't matter to 99% of the world if you fall.....but, it matters to Michael. It's always mattered to Michael....what more could he have given? What more could he have done? How could he have tried to show people love, without opening his heart so much? He said he wanted to be Jesus-like on Oprah. I believe we have all seen and been witness to the greatest example of love in our personal lifetime.
What a great video clip to tie that together....thank you for posting it!
Blessings to you always.......
LOVE
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Yes from what I recall Sophie was fine at the end.
Did LaToya actually say this?? About Illusionist?
Watch this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ&feature=feedu[/youtube]
@Moon. I LOVE your post. It is the perfect combination of articulate and emotional. Too many people refuse to go against the grain. Getting in touch with your spiritual side can be even more difficult because we are so brainwashed from the time we are children.
BAM, THE RETURN, RESSURECTION...whatever you want to call it, is difficult to believe in when you refuse to change your way of thinking and that is completely understandable. All I know is that this has been one hell of a ride that I am thankful to have been awake enough to get on.
We are all going to come together one way or another and I believe the process starts NOW.... L.O.V.E.
Thank you BeTheChange..........you're an angel to me ;)
Blessings....what an amazing day.
I thought level 7 suppose to be after bam?
I thought level 7 suppose to be after bam?
This is not really a guess but more like an awareness of the milestones and 2 have yet to pass. 11-11-11 is coming up soon and I highly doubt Bamsday and/or level 7 is happening then, it is to soon. The court case isn't even done yet. The other date is farther away and even though I doubt that will be Bamsday and/or level 7, I do find it interesting and relevant because you made mention of it. So it says to me that we will at least have to make it to 12-12-12. Whatever happens I got a hand, finger and toe holding on to the end.
TS sarcastic? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol: :lol:Oh my! I LLLOOVE this hoax!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think he already gave away that he will post level 7 this upcoming Friday. Probably to let us guess about the verdict or something, while he is laying back, lurking and eating popcorn.
About MJ not sharing his plan, that is probably why Pastor wants to 'see counsel' that much. They might get pieces of the script/story in that room. Could also explain Pastor's frustrated face. I remember an article on TMZ: Jackson's Demanding Personality On Trial (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-defense-coca-cole-caffeine-addiction/#.TqiXpt7z2so) lolol/ lolol/
Funny how they changed that from Coca Cola to Red Bull by the way. New sponsor?
“I have this magic ball here and that tells me you are not [Murray].”
“‘Objection Your Honor! Hearsay! - Sustained! Strike that last tweet.’”
“But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?”
suspicious//
@Gina, why not tell your husband that when MJ BAMS he has to pay for a flight and accomodation to LA for our post bam party as well as look after the family while your away. If he's so sure we're crazy he will agree. Then hold him to it after BAM. That'll teach him. I told my husband that I'll be going to the States for a post bam party yesterday and all he said was 'okay'.
What's the difference? A very important one. To 12:21 911 call are tied a lot of calculations, which could fall right now and I am one of those who found a logic in these calculations. If a piece is wrong, the whole building can go down. So these falling down right now are important and I cannot pretend I didn't notice. ... Refuse or avoid an answer is weird and out of place at this stage, because a lot of us, even if many don't post anymore, want to find the truth of all this.
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365850.html#msg365850 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365850.html#msg365850)}.
What are you all talking about this Illusionist movie?
Now I have to watch it, right?
I hope I can find it online somewhere.
Since you never promised, I never answered your BAM questions. However, just like I suspected, you have now found something else to doubt and fret about (911 call timing). So let me offer once more: will you promise to make this the last time? If so, I will take the time to answer the 12:20 or 12:21 timing questions. But I can’t take the time to keep answering every new concern that you or anyone else might come up with, ad-infinitum.
What? STILL up TS?!
You've got me wondering about MJ's insomnia and whether it's just another facet of this illusion. Could be I guess. Certainly the whole trial is centred around it. But if it is a genuine problem for him I wonder if he's ever used nutrition as an aid. Being awake when you want to be asleep can be related to low blood sugar levels - the 'being awake' is, IMO and experience, the body saying 'hey, I need fuel'. He should've had that bean soup Kai Chase had prepared for him, that she said he didn't eat, before he went to bed on 25th June - some good complex carbohydrates could've worked wonders - oh wait, maybe he did, 'cos Janet or LaToya said they found the remains in his room?! We never did hear any more about that did we?
Sorry, I'm rambling already, and it's only mid-morning here - see what your unusual timing has done TS?!!
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Thanks for the tip.
I wonder why MJ is trying so hard to shake off the believers.
Why is he trying so hard to discourage us?
Why is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
I care no further to sway people, to convince them, to help bolster their faith. People will either believe or not, nothing I can say or do or show n tell will change anyone's mind. They have to find it for themselves. Any effort to the contrary is a waste of time and emotional energy... both of which I have run short of.
Ps. @Gina, you need to take a stand against your husband and stand up for yourself. Who cares what happens in the end. You get to determine what is worth YOUR time and what isn't. NOT HIM. What, is he your keeper? He sounds like a buffoon.
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes. I'm not saying let's forget about everything and have fun all the time but we need to have fun too sometimes. I want every each of you to be happy! We deserve it! And the clue Latoya gave is amazing, so let's enjoy it for a moment, shall we?@ purelove - beautiful post as usual! just gorgeous... This is for you respect/ bearhug and this is for ms L jackson respect/ bearhug
I think he already gave away that he will post level 7 this upcoming Friday. Probably to let us guess about the verdict or something, while he is laying back, lurking and eating popcorn.
Just expressing my feelings after reading some messages and their underlying insinuations.
TS, I'm glad you've given up the silly notion that Michael was murdered - although I know you never actually thought that or had a hope you could prove it! But I think by no longer "supporting" the murder theory, you've alleviated some doubts some may have been having.
La Toya has definitely been a hoaxer's best friend, so has Jermai_e and Paris and the rest of the Jackson clan has been awesome. It's a family effort for sure, "blood is thicker than mud".
I want to thank everyone who has been keeping me updated on the trial, via this thread and others, I haven't been able to watch the trial as much as I'd like to as I have to work, although I'm starting to catch up with youtube. I appreciate everyone's hard work!!
Happy birthday paula!!
party/ beerchug
Oh Paula is it your birthday today? Happy birthday party/ !!
Happy birthday paula!!
party/ beerchug
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/courtpumpkin.jpg)
Speaking of the Jack-O-Lantern at the trial, it reminded me the movie "The Nightmare Before Christmas". Well maybe it is because I'm a fan of Tim Burton and his movies. But I believe that there's a connection btw Tim Burton movies and Michael. It's like they inspire each other. We talked about Tim Burton movies and Johnny Depp connection of Michael before but I don't remember we talked about this movie. If you haven't seen it yet and if you like Tim Burton movies like the Corpse Bride, you will definitely love this one too. And you will understand what I'm saying about the MJ connection when you watch it with your hoax eyes.
Here is more about the movie.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
(http://gallery.anipike.com/data/2/medium/nightmare-before-christmas.jpg)
Halloween Town is a dream world filled with dark creatures such as deformed monsters, ghosts, ghouls, goblins, vampires, werewolves and witches. The Pumpkin King, named Jack Skellington, leads them in a frightful celebration every Halloween, but he has grown tired of the same routine year after year. Wandering in the forest outside the town center with his ghost dog, Zero, he finds a cluster of trees each with a door which represents a certain annual holiday. Jack is drawn to the tree with the Christmas tree-shaped door and opens it which leads to a portal to "Christmas Town". Impressed by the feeling and style of Christmas, Jack presents his findings of the holiday to the Halloween Town residents. They fail to grasp his meaning and compare everything he says to their idea of Halloween. Jack undertakes several experiments to try to understand Christmas logically, but he becomes frustrated when he fails to understand. However, he realizes that just because he can't understand Christmas does not mean he still can't enjoy it; so he announces to Halloween Town that this year they will take over Christmas.
Jack's obsession with Christmas leads him to usurp the role of Santa Claus, known to him as "Sandy Claws". Every resident is assigned a task, while Sally, a rag doll woman who was created by the town's mad scientist, has romantic feelings towards Jack. However, when she is alone, she has a premonition of Jack's Christmas ending in disaster. When she tells Jack that it would be a bad idea for him to take over Christmas, he misinterprets her anxiety to mean that she is worried when given the responsibility to make Jack's Santa costume. Meanwhile, Jack assigns Lock, Shock and Barrel, a trio of mischievous children, to bring Santa to Halloween Town. When he arrives, Jack tells him of his plan that he will take over Christmas this year, much to Santa's protests. After this and against Jack's wishes, and largely for their amusement, the trio deliver Santa to Oogie Boogie, a gambling-addict bogeyman who plots to play a game with Santa's life at stake.
Christmas Eve arrives and Sally attempts to stop Jack with fog, but he embarks into the sky on a coffin-like sleigh pulled by skeletal reindeer and guided by the glowing nose of his ghost dog, Zero. He begins to deliver presents to children around the world, but the gifts (shrunken heads, Christmas tree-eating snakes, etc.) only terrify the recipients. Jack is believed to be an impostor attempting to impersonate Santa. The army is alerted, and, using searchlights to spot him, they try to shoot him down. The sleigh is shot down and Jack is presumed dead by Halloween Town's citizens, but in fact he has survived the crash, landing in a cemetery. Although he is depressed by the failure of his plan and the damage it caused, he quickly regains his old spirit by realising that he still tried his best at Christmas and enjoyed it. Having come up with new ideas for next Halloween and wanting to "set things right", he rushes back to Halloween Town.
Meanwhile, Sally attempts to free Santa, but fails and is also captured by Oogie. Jack slips into the Oogie's lair and frees both Santa and Sally. Jack then confronts Oogie and avoids his traps. While Oogie tries to escape, Jack uses a single loose thread hanging from Oogie's sewn rag structure to rip him open, exposing the bugs Oogie is made of. He falls apart, and with Oogie defeated, Santa reprimands Jack before setting off to deliver his presents to the children of the world. Jack asks Sally how she got into Oogie's lair in the first place and he realises that she was trying to help Jack because she has feelings for him. When Jack and Sally return to Halloween Town, the citizens rejoice that Jack is alive and soon Santa is seen in the sky, making snow fall over Halloween Town to show that there are no hard feelings between himself and Jack. The townspeople are confused by the snow at first, but soon begin to play happily in it. Jack follows Sally out into the graveyard after seeing the Doctor with his new creation. Jack and Sally begin to sing of their very strong romantic feelings for each other and then share a passionate kiss on top of the spiral hill in the graveyard. Zero watches them from afar before flying into the night sky forming a bright star shape and ending the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightmare_Before_Christmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightmare_Before_Christmas)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsikMF_ofg&feature=related[/youtube]
Jack says in this song: Just because I can not see it, doesn't mean I can not believe it! ;) Go and watch it. It's so Michaelish and you will love it.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol:) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court).So you responded to Souza and bec but not me. It's ok because after looking at these responses, I won! smiley_spider ;D lolol/
So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive;
crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y,...Just as I said before a big fat CON of MURDER. ;)
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder).
I have not given up and never intend to. I am riding this out until the wheels fall off.I said I was gonna ride this out until the wheels fall off. 8)
Is that ball an 8, or a 9 (0+1+5+3)? Either way, you are obviously paying too much attention—and you should go back to sleep, just like the other 6.9 billion people in the world {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502}.
Murray cooperated with the mystery person. And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y, and I want to turn myself in—would the court accept that, or dismiss it as hearsay?
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063}.
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ}.
happy birthday paula <3333 (:
OK I saw the video with LaToya giving that strange answer when she's asked about the witnesses.
The question is: can we trust her now?
She tells us to watch the movie and read between the lines.
The movie is very clear.
Still it looks unbelievable that MJ was able to play dead for so long without giving himself away.
OK I saw the video with LaToya giving that strange answer when she's asked about the witnesses.
The question is: can we trust her now?
She tells us to watch the movie and read between the lines.
The movie is very clear.
Still it looks unbelievable that MJ was able to play dead for so long without giving himself away.
OMG Flanny called Murray THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!
OMG Flanny called Murray THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!
There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben)
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
OMG Flanny called Murray THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!
There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. "His findings had a huge impact on the field." He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.
There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben)
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Sarahli-This is very good info you have come across. I had no idea of this but look at the names. This is big. IF these are the very same dudes testifying now, then this info you found could be why these two have been called as expert witnesses. Exposure of corruption? smiley_spiderQuote"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. "His findings had a huge impact on the field." He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.
Here is some media on Dr. Steven Shafer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/conrad-murray-trial-testi_n_1019560.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/conrad-murray-trial-testi_n_1019560.html)
P.S. Happy Birthday paula-c. party/
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
If this video is actually Murray....I can see a delay in the trial, perhaps.
Murray to the hospital? It is his tie on that sheet..
Hope indeed that it's part of the script.
So Lee says there's a virus in the room, La Toya is sick and Murray to the hospital? hmmmm.
Murray to the hospital? It is his tie on that sheet..
Hope indeed that it's part of the script.
So Lee says there's a virus in the room, La Toya is sick and Murray to the hospital? hmmmm.
Yes, it seems very...medical...(sting related?)
Of course the ultimate irony of this would be if Murray had to undergo a procedure and be given propofol.
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
I fell off my sofa when he said that to Dr White, the look on Murray and Dr White's face was PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, I hope this is part of the script and that Murray is ok. :|
Hey guys I'm not sure where to post this, and Souza...feel free to move it, but I thought some of you may be interested in watching this...if you haven't already.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th9Jcnn_DYQ[/youtube]
Hey guys I'm not sure where to post this, and Souza...feel free to move it, but I thought some of you may be interested in watching this...if you haven't already.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th9Jcnn_DYQ[/youtube]
O____O!!!
Was Doc Murray brought to UCLA?
I feel the need to address something before it becomes an issue. Every day, during court testimony, many of us watch the trial via the live feed provided by this site (thank you for that BTW). I for one watch in order to find clues about the hoax, share perspective, learn and enjoy myself doing so.
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with or or while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?"
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile Love you all..... Toot.
why is his tie between his legs WTF?? ?
I hope he didn't have a heart attack for crying so much in court errrr
And if you want to LAUGH once again here is Brett Ratner talking about Michael and his little pranks,lol :lol: .Recently he was at Jimmy Kimmel show.
[/b][/size]
Brett Ratner on Jimmy Kimmel Live PART 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9apPPGjPNLU&feature=feedlik
[/youtube]
LOVE
Did anyone catch Flanagan mention "the elephant in the room"? Lol
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
why tmz didnt report this? confused/
monstertooty:QuoteI feel the need to address something before it becomes an issue. Every day, during court testimony, many of us watch the trial via the live feed provided by this site (thank you for that BTW). I for one watch in order to find clues about the hoax, share perspective, learn and enjoy myself doing so.
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with or or while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?"
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile Love you all..... Toot.
Thank you very much for your post my friend,I feel everything you just WROTE.I remember the first time I LAUGHED like a nuts,and that was during THIS IS IT.I was at the cinema and I bet that people around me thought I was crazy.In a way I knew he is ALIVE and you have to admit that in the movie were some jokes and insinuations that only we his fans knows about.Michael is a nuty lol and he likes to LAUGH and to be TEASED.We know it and Brooke Shields already told us at the Memorial.
So don't be afraid to BE YOURSELF and stay the way you are,you are BEAUTIFUL,inside and outside,don't let people's change you :) .And if you want to LAUGH once again here is Brett Ratner talking about Michael and his little pranks,lol :lol: .Recently he was at Jimmy Kimmel show.
Brett Ratner on Jimmy Kimmel Live PART 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9apPPGjPNLU&feature=feedlik
[/youtube]
LOVE
How can you not love Mike?? Just hilarious! :lol:
We should do more stuff like that! lolol/
The longest recorded period without sleep is an astounding 33 years, performed by 64 year old Vietnamese man named Thai Ngoc, who claims to have lost his need for sleep after a sickness in the 70′s. Surprisingly, he experiences no ill negative effects from this condition, not even the normal sleep deprivation effects such as fatigue, loss of concentration, and so on. Under normal circumstances, people who lose even a few days of sleep start exhibiting cognitive symptoms usually only present in senior citizens.http://www.mindupdate.com/2007/04/the-mystery-of-sleep-and-the-lucky-few-who-dont-need-it/
Scientists have found a gene that could be responsible for needing less sleep, which they call “Period 3″ or the “Clock Gene”. While most humans need an average of 8 hours of sleep, people with specific variants of the Period 3 gene seem need to much less – sometimes as little as 4 hours of sleep a night. Many notable people through history have claimed to need less sleep – Michelangelo, Napoleon, Thomas Edison all claim to have only needed 4 hours of sleep a night. In modern days, Madonna, Jay Leno, Margaret Thatcher and many others say the same thing. It seems to be more prevalent in highly ambitious, driven individuals.
Another ultimate scenario would be if Murray "dies".... afraid/
That would be a huge shock, and of course I'm only speculating. :)
why is his tie between his legs WTF?? ?
I hope he didn't have a heart attack for crying so much in court errrr
If this happened on 27th, then Murray had a different tie in the court. I remember commenting his tie actually in the chat.
I do not believe it was Murray. Why the hell they covered his face? Seems fake for me, and the only proof it was Murray was someone screaming?
other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller.
The butterfly /bravo/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ1cHQpsiTs&feature=related[/youtube]
I also want to comment on that bearded guy who looks very strange and suspicious talking in circles, with his Front-like word "enchalada" and Back-like "going for the throat" (jugular). Who is he really? Applehead, where do you find all these vids, pics, etc.?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRaNrf4DS0&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
I feel the need to address something before it becomes an issue. Every day, during court testimony, many of us watch the trial via the live feed provided by this site (thank you for that BTW). I for one watch in order to find clues about the hoax, share perspective, learn and enjoy myself doing so.
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with :lol: or lolol/ or party/ while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?" WTF??
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! :) I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile ;D Love you all..... Toot.
OMG! WTF?? /bravo/
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
Maybe Murray will show up in pj's lol.
Seriously... WTF?? is going on??? You would think that this would be plastered all over the news, regardless if it is part of the hoax...especially TMZ and HLN but there's only this video. The youtube acct has some interesting vids...but don't know what to make of this one.
On the youtube vid page, someone commented about the sunflower at :19. I'm sure time will tell if this vid is legit.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I don't have a problem with a bit of 'off topic' banter in the breaks, but I have to say it's frustrating when some appear not to be paying any attention to what's going on in court, and comments of those who are, are many times overlooked in the speed and tone of that type of chat.
did you all notice the conrad W Murray not the correct Conrad R Murray?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
did you all notice the conrad W Murray not the correct Conrad R Murray?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
Souza is TS
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
Souza is TS
Gina, Souza is not TS. :lol: ♫ Don't believe everything you hear ♪
Defense did not rest their case today. Dr. White will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. lolol/
Defense did not rest their case today. Dr. White will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. lolol/
Why did they quit early today? I have laptop issues which means that it decides to shut off at moments it should not, so I didn't get the last part. Zo that means no verdict on Monday. What happens after White's testimony? Closing arguments? Maybe the defense's new tactic will be that they will claim Mike never died at all, hahahaha. So new guess: verdict on November the 4th? I would pick November the 5th, but that's a Saturday.
Hey TS, I will bake you some cookies if you give us a little hint, or an apple pie, or stroopwafels... (my new tactic, does it work?)
They just said on TMZ Live that (depending on how long the cross will take) that closing arguments will be as early as Monday as well and that the case will go to the jury on tuesday.
Harvey and Charles think the closing arguments will be interesting. They have to be, at least the defense's, since they changed their story in between. Let's see what happens. I'll be home around 11:15 am PT, so I hope won't miss the good stuff (yes that is a hint and a request... lolol/ )
BTW: you really should watch today's TMZ live as soon as they uploaded it. very interesting topic: the involvement of the CIA in the JFK murder.
Just one thing and I go to sleep.
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture on the computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
TS said also this and I still don't understand, because I clearily see a different timeline.
So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when [/color]the 911 operator would receive the call[/b].This does not mean that the exact second was planned; it would be difficult to get the call through on a specific second. However, the exact minute was planned; and as soon as the planned minute arrived, the call was placed. This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier.
This is what I don't understand. He deffinitelly said that the person who called obviously waited until 12:21 and he did not make the call earlier - not 12:20:18, no 12:20:46, but 12:21 and then pressed the call button. I'm not bashing nor anything, I simply want to understand because for me this doesn't look right
Defense did not rest their case today. Dr. White will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. The bearded dude in the video knows this case as good as IF he is a hoaxer. I loved his testimony. Enchilada! lolol/
I don't have a problem with a bit of 'off topic' banter in the breaks, but I have to say it's frustrating when some appear not to be paying any attention to what's going on in court, and comments of those who are, are many times overlooked in the speed and tone of that type of chat.
Most of the time I have to say, I watch full screen on TMZ or Red Carpet and just click back to chat in the breaks or when something mega happens, as I find chat going on at the side quite distracting!
I'm sure we can all watch and chat happily together with perhaps a little more thought. xxx
HAPPY BIRTHDAY to MJ_ForeverandAlways. I hope you have an amazing day sweety. I Love You. bearhug
party/
(http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020328.gif)
(http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/0002025D.gif)
[/quoteOctober 28, 2011
Happy Birthdays MJ_ForeverandAlways beerchug
Thank you PureLove & Paula-C for the Birthday wishes.....They really mean a lot to me!! I Love you all..... with all my heart!! bearhug
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Happy Birthday wishes to you both. This is an amazing adventure we are on together. One that has been very much enriched by you both. Thank you for all you have researched, written about and shared on the forum and other places on the web. You have helped us understand better and LOVE more.
Make a special wish on the next wishingstar of the evening, I will be thinking of you with LOVE.
Blessings to you both always,
Wishingstar
Quote from: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 08:52:02 PM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365432.html#msg365432)
Quote from: Shining light on October 19, 2011, 09:12:14 AM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg364259.html#msg364259)>
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
What I understood from yesterday, about defence position..
1. Murray indeed is one fool of a Dr. who indeed had no equipment,
who was coming and going,
leaving his ONE and only patient all alone. Negligence. Confirmed.
2. Being, as we know, "the gloved one", Michael could inject all he wants
and swallow all the pills he want [while Murray was having fun in the bathroom],
leaving no fingerprints. From what I recall, his lovely fingerprints were NOT found
on syringes, vials etc.
3. Murder version, the theory I started with in 2010 - it kinda supports that, no news here.
Murray is proved silly man with no equipment and no skill, spending enough time in
the bathroom chatting via cellphone, while someone else comes in, injects Michael
with whatever it was, leaves.
Murray comes back zipping his pants and finds his one and only patient not breathing.
But defence insists on MJ injecting himself BS.
It does help that "reasonable doubt" thing though. So.... defence wants that doubt
to rise, so jurors will be confused enough. Right? It's the only point.. and
the only chance for defence to make at least some jurors doubt Murray's guilt.
But Murray is still negligent enough! Abandonment, negligence - proved.
Quote from: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 02:16:09 AM
<>>“But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?”
Murray cooperated with the mystery person. And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y, and I want to turn myself in—would the court accept that, or dismiss it as hearsay?
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063}.
Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.
Here is the complete call:
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9 (http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9)"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news)" target="_blank">Conrad Murray Trial: 911 call played in court</a> <i>door <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews (http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews)" target="_blank">itnnews</a></i>
I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
I've been thinking this increasingly over the past few days - maybe some are getting sort of over confident about future dates and events. A timely reminder, perhaps, that we are not the ones running this show!
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Why so Much Suspicion Re: Michael Jackson's Deathhttp://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it (http://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it)
It is known to the medical establishment that it takes very large quantities of Propofol to induce and maintain sleep for hours on end. So much so, in fact, that there's little doubt that for Mr. Jackson to get up to six hours of sleep numerous vials of Propofol would have been required.
Abusers of the drug have stated that a single injection lasts no more than ten minutes.
The 200mg container pictured above is what is typically used to induce 1/2 hour of sedation. Repeated administration would therefore be required to induce multiple hours of sleep. This, in turn, suggests that the person administering this drug should have noticed something amiss far sooner than the (now) stated four hours between the star's death and the death being reported.
Something to cheer you up, posted 2 years ago:QuoteWhy so Much Suspicion Re: Michael Jackson's Deathhttp://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it (http://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it)
It is known to the medical establishment that it takes very large quantities of Propofol to induce and maintain sleep for hours on end. So much so, in fact, that there's little doubt that for Mr. Jackson to get up to six hours of sleep numerous vials of Propofol would have been required.
Abusers of the drug have stated that a single injection lasts no more than ten minutes.
The 200mg container pictured above is what is typically used to induce 1/2 hour of sedation. Repeated administration would therefore be required to induce multiple hours of sleep. This, in turn, suggests that the person administering this drug should have noticed something amiss far sooner than the (now) stated four hours between the star's death and the death being reported.
@curls....great posts indeed~thank you! : )
I am really wanting to hear in court, "....if Mr. Jackson were here today, what would you say to him?"
Perhaps if Murray takes the stand and his lawyer asks him, I'll get my Mission Impossible moment, lol.
All joking aside, I know this is truly serious. The right questions need to start being asked. I think the defense was leaning towards, "....is it possible that Mr. Jackson didn't die June 25th?" I felt like he wanted to say that, but couldn't.
Patience is needed for sure...........thank you again curls, always love reading your posts!
Have a beautiful day,
Blessings
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
You guessed it Souza...I mean...your right
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
You guessed it Souza...I mean...your right
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Yes, it was nurse Lee who said Michael had very small veins.
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Yes, it was nurse Lee who said Michael had very small veins.
I am going to at this totally different..shocker, I know, lol.
All this talk of veins......could it have been a play on words....Michael had no real/or very small VAINS...meaning he wasn't fully of vanity etc. People just automatically think of, "veins" because of this whole death thing. Perhaps it's the public's own fault for assuming, "vein" when it should be "vain"...........
Also, if I am remembering correctly, this picture is taken from the "Keep it in the Closet" video shoot with Naomi Campbell....he would have done a lot of dancing etc. Hence, having his veins popping out more because of the exercise. Just an observation........
Blessings
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
That pic it´s so "spanish", like Joaquín Cortés poses!The whole video is "spanish" styled, probably because for some extra "passion".
At court it was said that a person being administered for a long period intravenous stuff, the veins suffer from it and they get thinner.
Murray was there, he knows what happened. He told the truth and the truth will prevail. I just would like to listen to his version of the events soon. His "theory" is needed to finish the puzzle.
Michael is so sexy on this picture,and his veins are popping out like crazy.Just one thing and I go to sleep.
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
(http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif) yes , michael does have veins :shock:
Regarding possible verdicts:Interesting analogy,but for some reason i go with 3,Murray will testify,spill the beans,M.J. still alive,and point out who the real hit men are.That would be the perfect scenario,and then the BAM.It probably want happen that way,but hey anythings possible.That could be level 7,u never know,but time will tell.
1. Experts disagreeing = provides reasonable doubt = Murray not guilty
Or:
2. Regardless of experts' opinions about who did what and how, Murray's gross negligence = guilty
Or:
3. Murray takes the stand and tells what REALLY happened = MJ didn't die = not guilty!
Although I favour number 3, realistically I don't expect this to happen! Number 2 is looking the most likely to me right now.
I wonder though about what legally constitutes 'involuntary manslaughter'. Does Murray need to have administered the fatal dose himself for him to be guilty, or can his negligence, even if MJ did it himself, be sufficient to find him guilty?
(Of course, neither MJ nor Murray administered anything fatal, just trying to go along with the plot here!)
@Kristina4LOVE-Thanks for the comment. Yes I was very aware of the suicide by the Prince and I also connected Evan Chandler's death to it. I was avoiding writing that because it is a subject that is not pleasant to think about.Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
hmmm I found the movie right away to watch online, usually I'm not good in finding movies online.
What I thought it was interesting was when the magician finds her "dead" body in the river and starts crying and grieving, like a true actor, even though he knows very well she is not really dead. What a liar LOL!!
But my main question still remains: was the doctor in the hoax or not :) ? (the doctor in the movie I mean). And how convenient at that time they didn't had to have an autopsy done.
@ sarahli.... you are so right. full of contradictions.... how could a verdict possibly be reached like this with all of this conflicting information. if CM is found guilty of MS (even though i believe IMO is not real trial) it just goes to show how disgusting the court system really is that a conclusive decision could be made with so much inaccurate, conflicting, confusing, so called evidence and testimonies.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
Dressing up as MJ should never be offensive, but I honestly would take offense to seeing someone dressed up as Steven Hawking. As great of a person as he is, that poor man can't help his condition.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
Dressing up as MJ should never be offensive, but I honestly would take offense to seeing someone dressed up as Steven Hawking. As great of a person as he is, that poor man can't help his condition.
I agree about Stephen Hawking. I don't think anyone would be offended if I dressed like MJ, but maybe if I have a sign that says I'm Alive might make some Non-Believers upset, but I'm ready willing and able to explain why I think he is alive. But I don't want it to ruin my night either. Oh well, if half the girls here can walk around with nothing but underwear on (it 55 degrees at night here, I laugh at their misery), then I can express my opinion (ahem fact) that Mike ain't no ghost.
I've been reading here off and on and just have to say you "brainy" posters do such beautiful work. I usually keep quiet in here because I find you learn more when you watch and observe. I wanted to make a comment about La Toya telling us to watch "The Illusionist" and to "read between the lines". The desperacy in her voice made me just stop and wonder. Its also inspired me to be more open about the hoax and not so concerned with how people may perceive me after I tell them "uhhh yea by the way, Michael Jackson is still alive." We are an Army of L.O.V.E. but we are all relatively low key. Is it possible to show blind eyes and inform deaf ears and closed minds? I mean I've convinced my husband a little that MAYBE Mike is alive, but he is forced to listen to me because I'm his wife lol.
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd. We've ventured off long ago from the whole "do what you're told and don't ask questions" way of living, and its good to know that if I can't convince anyone of the hoax atleast I have you guys to keep me focused on what's real. Of course I see it all myself and take no shortcut through any of this. But I find it incredibly soothing to read articulate posts here from all of you.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd.
hey moon, your post really resonated with me. i have started posting on facebook to my 300+ friends little bits of info abt the CM case, wrong spelling, wrong DOB, wrond DOD, false photos of MJ in ambulance, bizzare antics in court, elephants / pumpkins, etc. all but one fo my friends now thinks i am crazy and i am sure some friends have hidden my status updates on FB.
as for the others (family and friends) they really feel that i have lost the plot and am dellusional.
i dont care for the love of MJ i will wear their flack... also being able to say told you so, will be sweet!
if being a freethinker means having people think i am ludirous, then so be it. i'd rather be free than be a drone... period!
[...] Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd.ohh SO true !! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/0059.gif)
[...]I bolded the specific points in both your posts that I identify with.^^ Same here! ;)
If people have a negative view of me, my business will suffer.This is available for anyone working in any business field. ;)
For those in the chat that brought up the animal statues:
The one near the pencil sharpener...
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/beaverOct31st.png)
...is the beaver which was near the witness stand on October 25th:
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/beaverOct25th.png)
The statue behind Walgren's head...
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/elephant_c.png)
...is an elephant:
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/elephant.png)
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd.
hey moon, your post really resonated with me. i have started posting on facebook to my 300+ friends little bits of info abt the CM case, wrong spelling, wrong DOB, wrond DOD, false photos of MJ in ambulance, bizzare antics in court, elephants / pumpkins, etc. all but one fo my friends now thinks i am crazy and i am sure some friends have hidden my status updates on FB.
as for the others (family and friends) they really feel that i have lost the plot and am dellusional.
i dont care for the love of MJ i will wear their flack... also being able to say told you so, will be sweet!
if being a freethinker means having people think i am ludirous, then so be it. i'd rather be free than be a drone... period!
I bolded the specific points in both your posts that I identify with. I think they were very thought provoking. I have been very vocal about being a hoaxer since the beginning. I make no apologies and I'm fairly open about it. Which is not to say I'm in your face with the general public but one way or another pretty much everyone who knows or knows of me in real life, knows I am a (lunatic) believer.
I would love to have the attitude of; so be it, let people think whatever they want and it makes no difference to me... but the problem is, I am a small business owner and I do need to remain greatly concerned with whatever people "think" of me as I am the literal face on my livelihood. If people have a negative view of me, my business will suffer. The way the game is played (life) every person must remain ecconomically viable or fall through the cracks to the bottom dregs of society, where as the rules of the game dictate: too bad for you, you lost the life lottery (think the homeless/in prison/on welfare set). I don't want to lose the life lottery.
So, really, the stakes are quite high and I have bet the house on this. At least it could be argued as such. It tends to make me a little nervous these days. (edited to add: no, no one made me do this, -that is not what I am saying- yes, I made this decision based on my own free will)
I would apologize for being off topic but I'm not sure we have a topic anymore? TIAI becomes more like a current events/pertinent observations thread as the pages stack higher. That could be challenged in court though. Objection, irrelevance!
I'm sorry do you mean this BEAVER geek/?????
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AUZDi_FrfrE/TPr93yQJEFI/AAAAAAAAABk/9aaiwcxI_d8/s1600/Beaver%2BMel%2BGibson.jpg)
Where is the chatroom during trial coverage? The one that existed beside the video feed is no longer there, and the forum chatroom is messed up due to some changes going on. Anyone?
Where is the chatroom during trial coverage? The one that existed beside the video feed is no longer there, and the forum chatroom is messed up due to some changes going on. Anyone?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/trial-live-stream/
You can still click the top banner; it'll take you there.
[...]Loved reading your post! thanks for all the details! I love how you deal with people and this subject. Clever girl you are!
So i guess we must chose carefully people with whom we can discuss such difficult subject and i usually don't talk about numerology, because it's a very hard part of the hoax. Family and official documents are the main points i use in my "Michael Jackson is still alive" speech.
Where is the chatroom during trial coverage? The one that existed beside the video feed is no longer there, and the forum chatroom is messed up due to some changes going on. Anyone?
@Kristina4LOVE-Thanks for the comment. Yes I was very aware of the suicide by the Prince and I also connected Evan Chandler's death to it. I was avoiding writing that because it is a subject that is not pleasant to think about.Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
hmmm I found the movie right away to watch online, usually I'm not good in finding movies online.
What I thought it was interesting was when the magician finds her "dead" body in the river and starts crying and grieving, like a true actor, even though he knows very well she is not really dead. What a liar LOL!!
But my main question still remains: was the doctor in the hoax or not :) ? (the doctor in the movie I mean). And how convenient at that time they didn't had to have an autopsy done.
@GINAFELICIA-Thanks for commenting. To answer your question whether the Dr. was in on the fake death? Yes he was. You should re-watch the movie and pay attention to the scenes when Eisenheim is at the train station and when he finds Sophie's body in the river. Shortly after she is found the Dr. is there confirming she is dead and stops the police officer from examining her body more closer. Btw where did you find the whole movie online? Can you post a link for those who want to watch this movie? Thanks.
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. anyway until the official announcement.
....
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. anyway until the official announcement.
....
- Hi Suzy, this bothers me a LOT, too. It's so important and .. it's the key moment really.
They blather about "around 12 p.m.?" but I need
proper confirmation from proper medics/coroners. They did have really nice fresh body, didn't they, why so hard to deliver real time of death?
/pull hair/
At times seems like "the body" was hopelessly dead way before 12 p.m.
Then suddenly it was still half-alive after 12 p.m.
Then totally dead when paramedics arrived.
Then crazy amount of time "saving" the very dead body at hospital, "because Murray told them to".
/overreacting/
So, I've read Janet is leaving to go back to her tour again.yes ford i find that very strange,doesnt make sense to me.maybe its part of the illusion,lol.
Janet Jackson
@JanetJackson Janet Jackson
JANET ARRIVED IN AUSTRALIA TODAY TO CONTINUE HER HIGHLY ACCLAIMED NUMBER ONES: UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL TOUR bit.ly/vdFUqG -Janet's Team
Seems like strange timing don't it?
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. anyway until the official announcement.
....
- Hi Suzy, this bothers me a LOT, too. It's so important and .. it's the key moment really.
They blather about "around 12 p.m.?" but I need
proper confirmation from proper medics/coroners. They did have really nice fresh body, didn't they, why so hard to deliver real time of death?
/pull hair/
At times seems like "the body" was hopelessly dead way before 12 p.m.
Then suddenly it was still half-alive after 12 p.m.
Then totally dead when paramedics arrived.
Then crazy amount of time "saving" the very dead body at hospital, "because Murray told them to".
/overreacting/
When you 'subtract' all the contradictions (which would be important to the jury, if they are 'real', like time of death, how he died, etc)...what the jury is basically left with are some 'details' that both sides aren't contradicting. As per the 'script', Murray (a doctor) ordered a huge amount of propofol and had it shipped to a residential address. He administered propofol and several other meds to MJ nightly, in his home, over a 2 month period. Unless he's lived under a rock, Murray did all this knowing that Mike has previously publically stated he had become addicted to prescription meds (whether true or not, this was publically stated by MJ himself). Based on the autopsy report, propofol played a huge role in his 'death'....as did Murray's actions and lack of action/equipment in dealing with an emergency situation.
Because of all the contradictions, the jury may get 'hung up' on making a decision....but IMO the contradictions are a smoke-screen. Again, ONLY going by what has been presented in court, which WE know is riddled with false 'evidence'....but trying to see it from the jury's perspective, based on what they've been 'allowed' to see...the time of 'death', how much propofol was given and when, etc....while important, don't detract or negate Murray's actions leading up to the moment of 'death'.
Should having a 'license' give doctors free access to do whatever they want for the right price...even when their decisions are contrary to the oath they've taken? When asking that question, which I believe is at the heart of this trial, the contradictions become minor points. If the trial ends without any surprises, and regardless of what the jurors discuss in reaching a decision...their verdict will speak volumes and will either send a loud message to 'Hollywood' doctors and doctors all over the country...or it may, potentially, open up the floodgates of 'doctors for hire'. At this point, again based solely on what's been presented in court so far....if a verdict of 'innocent' is reached....the jury is, in essence, saying that it is 'ok' for doctors to do as they please...to have free reign and power to purchase, prescribe and administer whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want, however they want and for whoever they want, regardless of whether or not it is medically warranted.
THAT, in itself, brings to mind Back's post about the need for more 'intricate' plots to kill someone nowadays, whereas 20 years ago a bullet would suffice. Most people have a doctor...people in 'high places' most definitely have doctors...an innocent verdict could set a precedent allowing 'hits' on people without the need for a gun...all they'd need is money and a 'doctor for hire'. IF doctors are allowed this level of power it's not only people in 'high places' that could be at risk...we all could be given the fact that we 'trust' doctors with our lives (think vaccines, 'new' shots for 'new' viruses, etc).
If the trial ends with Dr. White or without a major turn of events (like Murray testifying)...this is what the jury will be left to decide, it all comes down to how much power doctors should have. And that is a very scary thought.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @TS...do you not have a sweet-tooth? :lol: What else can we 'bribe' you with? ;)
You are right, BeTheChange ...
I think verdict should be "guilty".
Lol @ the statements by the judge to jury. He basically told them to put a blind fold on, ear plugs, and they might as well crawl in a box and glue themselves in it until Thursday. To summarize his instructions: "Do not think for yourself" oh, justice system.
The 5th of November is an important date in the hoax so we can expect something important/significant to happen that day, right? I hope so. mj_dance/^^I also expect something on 11th Nov. 2011 ----)) 11.11.11
@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
In Anglophone jurisdictions, the verdict may be guilty, not guilty, or (in Scotland) not proven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_proven). Juries are composed of jurors (also sometimes known as jurymen), who are by definition layman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layman) finders of fact, not professionals.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury)
[...]
The jury arrangement has evolved out of the earliest juries, which were found in early medieval England. Members were supposed to inform themselves of crimes and then of the details of the crimes. Their function was therefore closer to that of a grand jury than that of a jury in a trial.
The 5th of November is an important date in the hoax so we can expect something important/significant to happen that day, right? I hope so. mj_dance/
You are right, BeTheChange ...
I think verdict should be "guilty".
I agree, BeTheChange. "Guilty" will point to reckless corrupt doctors - who are already existing and are making quite a lot of money without raising any eyebrow. "Not guilty" would open doors for "Drs Feelgood" to just go ahead and expand what they are already doing.
However, a "guilty" is no free ticket on this train. It is more complicated.
"Guilty"would be required for several reasons:
- despite the various theories elaborated in wildest speculations about what might have happened that day, Doc Murray had allegedly declared that he was not available when the person relying on him needed his competence. The various theories sneaking around the pit like a cat around the milk pot did not change any aspect of this statement.
So no matter what else happened, Doc Murray is guilty of neglect and missing care. In a moral common understanding, Doc Murray is guilty from his statement alone.
- "Guilty" would be "calming" those hostile souls whining for "revenge" on the murderer (for a while).
- "Guilty" is required to "calm" those who were nailed themselves in the trial: Dr. Shafer and Dr. White.
- "Guilty" is required following a dramaturgical logic to induce the wakeup and memory effect of shock for non-believers and non-interested: "it's not the way I thought".
- "Guilty" will put Doc Murray behind "bars" but not really as we learned from TMZ.
- "Guilty" holds the possibility of Michael returning and of a BAM.
But "guilty" is wrong since Doc Murray did not "kill" Michael.
If a "not guilty" is the outcome, the world will for a second be in uproar about "decreasing" moral (hence do nothing about it), the non-believers will scream and maybe attack Doc Murray as a murderer (who will have to search a safe haven - most likely outside the U.S.). Hate will continue to be spit on the Jackson family (which they know well by now).
The non-interested will put Michael as a drug addict to the records, the Jackson family will be one more time a bunch of typical Hollywood lunatics, the estate will continue to make money off Michael's unpublished songs and Michael will have a calm time with his family forever more.
But a "not guilty" is not correct either because Doc Murray did not act as a doctor with responsibility (according to his alleged statement).
This reminds much of the dilemma in "He who says yes" / "He who says no" by German author Bertold Brecht.
These are two theater plays about almost the same story - except one time the answer is "yes", one time the answer is "no". A controversy about society's values and whether individuals should bend for them.
These are scenes from a performance of Brooklyn College Academy:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related)
Whatever and however Michael likes to continue his life will be linked to the verdict.
As this is scripted already, we need not to worry.
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
Look at the family their actions and reactions
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Thank you Grace for this information.. So even if we delete our profile in facebook they still have access t our information.. Wow. that is scary.. How can we erase everything in facebook? is there someway to have everything deleted and they do not have access?
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0[/youtube]
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
Look at the family their actions and reactions
What are the actions and reactions of the Jackson fam?
@everyone, about November the 5th coming up does anybody expect something big?...Chandler was a shocker, I still can't get my head around that, is it a coincidence that he killed himself on that day or is he still alive, who knows?....it bugs me, I'm thinking of every option, but it makes no sense....
Anyone else wish TS would make an appearance - and Front (I can't even find the Back thread any more, it's been so long!)?
Anyone else wish TS would make an appearance - and Front (I can't even find the Back thread any more, it's been so long!)?
x10
Looks like they're all on HIatus...and they don't take bribes :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Why not the same screen frame like for Murray's trial? This one is clearily filmed (it's not still) and it has 31 stars
Michael Jackson's father relaxes on Germany's North Sea coast Mar 7, 2011, 16:03 GMThttp://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1624223.php/Michael-Jackson-s-father-relaxes-on-Germany-s-North-Sea-coast (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1624223.php/Michael-Jackson-s-father-relaxes-on-Germany-s-North-Sea-coast)
Carolinensiel, Germany - Michael Jackson's father Joe has been enjoying massages, winter sunshine and long walks along the beach during a stay on Germany's North Sea coast, the family's European manager Ralf Sesselberg said Monday.
'He is having massages and being spoilt,' Sesselberg said of the father of the late King of Pop who died in 2009.
Jackson, 82, was staying in the spa resort of Carolinensiel- Harlesiel, a small fishing community that he has visited on five previous occasions.
'He finds the people so pleasant. They are friendly, but keep their distance,' Sesselberg said.
Jackson is to spend about three weeks in northern Germany, including shopping trips to Hamburg and a visit to a ship in the port town of Wilhelmshaven.
The Jackson family patriarch has been writing a book about his family's history, his manager said. The holiday was a welcome break from his busy schedule in the US.
'He is enjoying the peace,' Sesselberg said.
Please don't ever say any bad word about Joe Jackson.
Original 1849 Description
“Around the bend of the ring are represented thirty-one stars, being the number of States of which the Union will consist upon the admission of California. The foreground figure represents the goddess Minerva [Greek: Athena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena)] having sprung full grow[n] from the brain of Jupiter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_%28mythology%29) [Greek: Zeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus)]. She is introduced as a type of the political birth of the State of California, without having gone through the probation of a territory. At her feet crouches a grisly [grizzly] bear feeding upon the clusters from a grape vine, emblematic of the peculiar characteristics of the country. A miner is engaged with his rocker and bowl at his side, illustrating the golden wealth of the Sacramento (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_River), upon whose waters are seen shipping, typical of commercial greatness; and the snow-clad peaks of the Sierra Nevada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Nevada_%28U.S.%29) make up the background, while above is the Greek motto "Eureka," (I have found,) applying either to the principle involved in the admission of the State, or the success of the miner at work.[/q][/t] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California)
Is Caroline Siel a "real" person? Gosh, I see people with hoax eyes all the time. Her smile, face, all looks odd to me. Maybe that´s the way she looks but...
One last sentence on FB from my side and then I will move on and return to the kangaroo trial:
applehead, I did not say that you were wrong.
I said, there is a counter revolution to take into account.
BeTheChange was getting at that as well.
It's physics.
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Thank you Grace for this information.. So even if we delete our profile in facebook they still have access t our information.. Wow. that is scary.. How can we erase everything in facebook? is there someway to have everything deleted and they do not have access?
No, there's no way back.
Unfortunately, the moment you have decided in favour of Facebook, your data are already stored and will not be deleted anymore. They have your data and they will keep your data no matter what you do on the surface.
Do not click on an "I like it" thumbs up Facebook button either.
It installs a tracker on your desktop to accompany you through thick and thin internet.
Do not "identify" persons on photos and provide data about those. Not on Facebook, not on Google+, nowhere.
This makes photos identifyable. Google is working since quite a while on their android to make a feature available that says: "shoot photo of a person with mobile phone, realtime search on google servers for name and data, display data on android (including address, likings, whatever is available). No fiction, this is real.
Google is the w*ore of data storage (and in the future: of connecting the dots).
You think it's all fun but in fact it's letting burglars into your home at free will.
Imagine only the webspace, database, servers, technical staff they are running in the background.
From what $$$ are they getting paid?
ALWAYS ask yourself how any internet presence is being paid for, how they make money to keep it alive.
Not everybody has a generous soul like Badkolo and Souza to provide our place for free. In fact this attitude is the absolute exception. The web is not a christian missionary place. It is about $$$ and about linking and bonding everybody in.
Surf with Mozilla, install the Ghostery and other privacy add-ons and you will see how many trackers are hidden on each website you are visiting and are tracking down your visits.
If you don't have to pay for a service, you will provide data instead. Data are $$$ and they are being sold in order to get you into profiling clusters for marketing purposes. That's how the web is being financed these days.
The moment you log on to Facebook, your profile is already worth 100 $$$ and the value increases each day.
There are huge privacy protection debates going on.
Even governmental agencies do use facebook (and of course trackers).
I read about an IT specialist (who should know you would say) being checked by colleagues wanting to see how far they could go finding private data about him in the web. They did not only find photos, names of the entire family, they found the car, the car registration, the bank accounts, the addresses, where he was spending vacation, that he had several kids from different moms, everything. The researchers were so kind to interrupt their research and tell their colleague.
There's young folks used to these social networks claiming that "what do they want to do with the data - I have nothing to hide and everything under control".
Well, we have seen how much we have everything under control, right?
It is letting the burglars into our homes, stealing our freedom our ancestors have lost their lives for.
Add the CCTV cameras on the streets, the chip in your i-phone, the great apps that deliver your GPS location and you know what's going on.
Do not touch Facebook. Google and Yahoo are alike. It is all the same sources.
Twitter was forced to deliver all wikileaks followers' IP addresses.
Each and every single tweet will be stored in the database of US Congress.
What they want to do with it?
Knowing what is being talked about is essential for strategies.
Why would they store all the text if they did not want to analyze it?
Knowledge in time is the key.
I am not saying, don't use the web.
I am saying: do it with wisdom and keep your treasures out of it.
Do NEVER give any private data out, not in boards, not in chat, not in email, never.
Go quickly on tmz and see they show the seal from Lindsay's trial and the seal has 31 stars. It is indeed on another background, but it's the same court and same seal. Why not the same screen frame like for Murray's trial? This one is clearily filmed (it's not still) and it has 31 stars
Go and look
http://www.tmz.com/
EDIT:
For whoever lost it, here is a screen shot
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3346/californiaseal.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/californiaseal.jpg/)
And here the camera is clearily live filming the seal, because you see it moving, while on Murray's trial the frame is still, photo like, not camera filming the wall. It's still, like a background image, not moving. If you get what I mean.
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Wow.......thank you for sharing that, I had no clue, lol. I have always thought (or maybe secretly hoped) Michael is a strong part of Disney.......it would be the coolest thing ever : ) Thanks again for letting us know all those amazing things that happened. I am indeed curious to what degree Michael is involved with media.....I just have a feeling it's an amazing scope:
TMZ
ABC/Disney
HLN/CNN
......I wonder if we can tie these together somehow suspicious// I will look around and see what I find....it will be nice to take my mind off things........
Blessings
One might think of a koinkidance that this town has that name and that they may have a stuffed seal as a mascot. Maybe they really have a seal with a red nose as a mascot there.
If you ask me, I think this is unlikely since Europe is not Hollywood . Usually Europeans don't exaggerate about trivializing animals except in theme parks. Which means stuffed toys will be more resembling living creatures than Mickey Mouse. So I would rule the red nose as existing on that mascot out unless somebody comes up with it and proves it.
In fact, yes, maybe this photo shooting was all koinkidance and Joe was just asked to pose for an article in local papers.
Still.
Why are they standing in front of a house with the seal directly being photographed in front of the letters
Q U E L L (which means "source")?
There are far better motives for a journalist's photo for local press - the port, the sea gulls, the sea, the beach, whatever. But they choose a house corner holding the seal in front of letters giving the word "source".
???
I have "un"learned to think in terms of koinkidances here. :lol:
I think Joe's presentation was no koinkidance.
So we are back to the seal and why it has 31 stars in Lindsay Lohan's court room and 32 in Doc Murray's.
Michael as a (additional) star being in that room all the time. This never left my mind.
What and who are the source / origin of the seal?
Did we miss anything so far? I am no expert in U.S. history. Anybody an idea?
QuoteOriginal 1849 Description
“Around the bend of the ring are represented thirty-one stars, being the number of States of which the Union will consist upon the admission of California. The foreground figure represents the goddess Minerva [Greek: Athena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena)] having sprung full grow[n] from the brain of Jupiter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_%28mythology%29) [Greek: Zeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus)]. She is introduced as a type of the political birth of the State of California, without having gone through the probation of a territory. At her feet crouches a grisly [grizzly] bear feeding upon the clusters from a grape vine, emblematic of the peculiar characteristics of the country. A miner is engaged with his rocker and bowl at his side, illustrating the golden wealth of the Sacramento (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_River), upon whose waters are seen shipping, typical of commercial greatness; and the snow-clad peaks of the Sierra Nevada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Nevada_%28U.S.%29) make up the background, while above is the Greek motto "Eureka," (I have found,) applying either to the principle involved in the admission of the State, or the success of the miner at work.[/q][/t] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California)
Hello! The place "Carolinensiel" really does have a little rednosed female seal as a mascot and its called "Carolinchen"
Joseph has quite often visited this place in the past years, bec he has got a branch office (? dont know if this is the right word)
for his representation in Europe in Rastede which is about 60 to 70 km away from the North Coast and the area around Carolinensiel. There quite a lot of other -siels in that area as well.
And QUELLE was not meant as "source", it was meant as "spring" like a thermal spring. Joe was just at some spa park/area when they took that picture and there he also had his massages and got spoiled there as they mentioned before.
Iam quite sure it is not related to the hoax at all. But speaking of the hoax, I ve got a feeling that Murray will be aquitted.
Why would they have made such an effort to copy as much details as they did from 2005's trial to have a different outcome?
OMG my english is probably terrible I hope everybody understands. I also would like to admit that I really appreciate everybodys hard work in here. I love this forum though Ive never been much of an active part here. But I stll havent lost my faith and Iam defently a believer!
Greetings to everybody! bearhug
Hello! The place "Carolinensiel" really does have a little rednosed female seal as a mascot and its called "Carolinchen"
Joseph has quite often visited this place in the past years, bec he has got a branch office (? dont know if this is the right word)
for his representation in Europe in Rastede which is about 60 to 70 km away from the North Coast and the area around Carolinensiel. There quite a lot of other -siels in that area as well.
And QUELLE was not meant as "source", it was meant as "spring" like a thermal spring. Joe was just at some spa park/area when they took that picture and there he also had his massages and got spoiled there as they mentioned before.
Iam quite sure it is not related to the hoax at all. But speaking of the hoax, I ve got a feeling that Murray will be aquitted.
Why would they have made such an effort to copy as much details as they did from 2005's trial to have a different outcome?
OMG my english is probably terrible I hope everybody understands. I also would like to admit that I really appreciate everybodys hard work in here. I love this forum though Ive never been much of an active part here. But I stll havent lost my faith and Iam defently a believer!
Greetings to everybody! bearhug
From the 5th to the 8th centuries, the Merovingian dynasty ruled Europe and, from the Middle Ages until the present day, most of Europe's monarchs have been of Jewish descent. The Merovingians kings claimed Jewish descent from King David, King Solomon and, posturing as Christians, from Jesus Christ through Mary Magdalene. The first Merovingian king of France, Clovis I, feigned conversion to Christianity in 496 A.D. along with his Jewish household and 3,000 of his Jewish warriors. “The royal emblem of the Merovingian king Clovis was the fleur-de-lis (the iris)...a masculine symbol. In fact, it is a graphic image of the covenant of circumcision... This three-pronged 'lily' is an ancient symbol for Israel: the capitals of the two phallic pillars of Solomon's Temple, Jachin and Boaz, were carved with 'lily work' (I Kings 7:22).” (936:62 (http://watch-unto-prayer.org/notes.html#r936))In 679 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church collaborated with the Carolingians to assassinate the Merovingian King Dagobert II. Dagobert's nephew, Childeric III, was deposed in 751 by Pepin III, the first of the Carolingian dynasty. In 800, Pepin's son, Charlemagne, was crowned Holy Roman Emperor, although his kingdom actually was the Frankish Empire. Charlemagne and the Carolingians married Merovingian Jews.“In fact, to consolidate his claim to the throne of the Franks, Charlemagne had himself married a Merovingian princess.” - 936 (http://watch.pair.com/notes.html#r936)Charlemagne was also Jewish, his descendants claiming the pedigree of tribe of Judah, whereas the Merovingians were of the apostate tribe of Dan (http://watch.pair.com/dan.html):[size=0pt]http://watch.pair.com/false-christ.html (http://watch.pair.com/false-christ.html) [/size]There's much historical detail...
Various myths have the Merovingians as descendants of theTrojans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy),[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty#cite_note-9)or of a five-headed sea monster known as theQuinotaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinotaur). The Merovingians are extensively featured in the bookThe Holy Blood and the Holy Grail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail), in which they are claimed to be the descendants ofJesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), based on ahoax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax)originating withPierre Plantard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Plantard)in the mid-20th century. The 2006 film,The Da Vinci Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code_(film)), based ona book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code)byDan Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Brown), is a fictional treatment of themes fromHoly Blood. In it the main character, Sophie, discovers that she is a descendant of the Merovingian blood line as well as that of Jesus Christ. The word "Merovingian" has even been used as an adjective, at least five times in Swann's Way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swann%27s_Way) by Marcel Proust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Proust).
The Merovingian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Merovingian) is the name of an antagonist in the second and third installments of The Matrix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix) trilogy.
[size=0pt]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty)[/size]
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Wow.......thank you for sharing that, I had no clue, lol. I have always thought (or maybe secretly hoped) Michael is a strong part of Disney.......it would be the coolest thing ever : ) Thanks again for letting us know all those amazing things that happened. I am indeed curious to what degree Michael is involved with media.....I just have a feeling it's an amazing scope:
TMZ
ABC/Disney
HLN/CNN
......I wonder if we can tie these together somehow suspicious// I will look around and see what I find....it will be nice to take my mind off things........
Blessings
I noticed all the same things you guys did! I almost lost it when JB did his sideways moonwalk. moonwalk_/ That and the Spider were pretty blatant. smiley_spider LOL And next week Cirq? Wow. It was quite a night... Nancy Dis-Grace was saved AGAIN. I can't wait till that woman is voted off! I can't believe she's still there. But I agree it's interesting timing her being on the show while the trial is going on. When it was made known that Catherine and the kids love the show, I also thought Michael was involved; esp with one of his background singers there.
I think it's pretty likely SOMETHING will happen either Nov 5th; remember remember the 5th of November, or 11-11-11. suspicious// TS has been too quiet so we're due. I missed Tues court session; this is my busy shopping week. I had the day off today along with a snow storm but there's NO Court. /overreacting/ Dang it I will miss tomorrow too! I guess I'll have to record it and watch some videos so I can catch up.
bearhug to all.
TS either hoaxed his death or is still considering my offer to make stroopwafels for him in exchange for a nice little hint. lolol/ lolol/
(http://www.kwekkeboom.net/images/nieuw/Stroopwafels.jpg)
Just want to share about the seal....in the first week of the trial I was watching on HLN and when they went to break one day. Someone must have messed up with the cameras because when it broke away from the courtroom, the angle we saw was from the side camera and for a brief moment it showed the main camera pointed at a easel like thing with the picture of the seal exactly like we see on the live feed. So it was just a picture, like a big poster. Ford saw it too as we were talking about it in chat that day. Just thought I'd share that, not sure if it has any significance or not.
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
bearhug mj_bad/
Just want to share about the seal....in the first week of the trial I was watching on HLN and when they went to break one day. Someone must have messed up with the cameras because when it broke away from the courtroom, the angle we saw was from the side camera and for a brief moment it showed the main camera pointed at a easel like thing with the picture of the seal exactly like we see on the live feed. So it was just a picture, like a big poster. Ford saw it too as we were talking about it in chat that day. Just thought I'd share that, not sure if it has any significance or not.
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
And just as a side note....my name on chat is a little different it's MJAlwaysandForever...when I made my nic I must have been sleeping because I did it opposite of this nic...lol :shock:
bearhug mj_bad/
TS either hoaxed his death or is still considering my offer to make stroopwafels for him in exchange for a nice little hint. lolol/ lolol/
(http://www.kwekkeboom.net/images/nieuw/Stroopwafels.jpg)
Just want to share about the seal....in the first week of the trial I was watching on HLN and when they went to break one day. Someone must have messed up with the cameras because when it broke away from the courtroom, the angle we saw was from the side camera and for a brief moment it showed the main camera pointed at a easel like thing with the picture of the seal exactly like we see on the live feed. So it was just a picture, like a big poster. Ford saw it too as we were talking about it in chat that day. Just thought I'd share that, not sure if it has any significance or not.
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
And just as a side note....my name on chat is a little different it's MJAlwaysandForever...when I made my nic I must have been sleeping because I did it opposite of this nic...lol :shock:
bearhug mj_bad/
MJ_Forever, amazing that you & Ford catched that brief camera shot of the seal. This was a very subtile clue ;D I once noticed the lightning on the seal was brighter too, I found that odd.
Love you too MJ_Forever
Doesn't much matter though. Whether it's a real seal or just a pic, someone added a 32nd star and that's just not an excusable "mistake". It is purposeful.
Thank you Paula, that's very interesting that a verdict could be reached exactly 30 years after Elvis' doctor.
"In final arguments before the jury retired, Dr. Nichopoulos, who was indicted last January, was alternately portrayed as a kindhearted samaritan and as a physician with almost total disregard for accepted standards of medical practice."
Sounds very familiary, doesn't it?
Is Caroline Siel a "real" person? Gosh, I see people with hoax eyes all the time. Her smile, face, all looks odd to me. Maybe that´s the way she looks but...
It's the town's name, not a person.
Carolinensiel. ;)
Okaaay.
"Real MJ fans" think both hoaxers and conspiracy theorists {and LaToya}
are lunatics,
Has anyone heard when Chernoff said to the jury "pay attention to the man behind the curtain"? I thought it was a pretty much interesting statement but I have no idea who he was talking about. He also said (with a malicious look) that "Murray was a little fish in a big dirty bowl" -- I think it's "bowl" not sure. Well, it kind of implied that there was something bigger going on. Hmmm.
Go quickly on tmz and see they show the seal from Lindsay's trial and the seal has 31 stars. It is indeed on another background, but it's the same court and same seal. Why not the same screen frame like for Murray's trial? This one is clearily filmed (it's not still) and it has 31 stars
Go and look
http://www.tmz.com/
EDIT:
For whoever lost it, here is a screen shot
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3346/californiaseal.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/californiaseal.jpg/)
can someone please help me with this... sorry, needed to get attention to this post.. i googled conrad murrays name. a url for an article by TMZ came up in search results that indicates someone is making a blockbuster documentary.... when i click on the link the page says that it has been removed...
see picture below... what 'blockbuster are they talking about'
did i miss something... thanks in advance for any helpful responses.
(http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k594/Australianbeliever/conrad.jpg)
I guess TS is going to post just after the verdict on the 5th of November. And that's when level 7 begins. :D
Jacko doc’s shopping story
Last Updated: 12:22 AM, November 2, 2011
Posted: 12:06 AM, November 2, 2011
| More Print
While Dr. Conrad Murray stands trial for the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson, he’s been quietly filming a blockbuster documentary that’s being shopped to major TV networks.
Sources say Murray, who announced yesterday that he will not testify in his defense, has sold the rights “to his story” to a production company that’s been filming interviews with him daily as the trial progresses.
The unidentified production company is shopping the documentary as a package deal that would also include a video diary and a sit-down interview with Murray.
Conrad Murray
UPI
Conrad Murray
“A news division that pays for the documentary will end up with a side deal of getting the sit-down with Conrad,” a source said. “It’s crafted in such a way for a news division that doesn’t pay for interviews.”
We hear the production outfit has been aiming to sell the documentary for $1 million. It is not clear how much would go to Murray.
“They have already filmed a long interview in case he’s taken into custody,” a source told Page Six.
CNN was interested in buying the footage, one source said, but a CNN rep told us last night that although they were pitched on it, they declined. “We are not considering, we passed on it,” a network rep told us.
Other sources say NBC is close to securing the deal, possibly for the “Today” show.”
“I question whether there is enough interest in him,” a competitor mused. “It’s more interesting if he’s found not guilty.”
Murray could face up to four years in prison and lose his medical license if he’s convicted of being criminally negligent in administering the anesthetic propofol before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Tomorrow, both sides are expected to present closing arguments.
A spokesperson for Murray’s lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, declined to comment, citing a gag order on the case. NBC also declined to comment.
It's the most freaky but satisfying feeling to think that 99% of the world thinks they are watching 'reality'...when what it really is, is an illusion. Not just the trial...but everything that's occured surrounding MJ's 'death', on June 25th, 2009 and after. Kinda like how 99% of the world thinks the world we see and live in each day is 'reality'...when, in fact, it's all an illusion created by the 'elite', the 1%. Mike has truly flipped the pyramid...and we are now the 1%, with him at the helm...behind the curtain ;)
Wondering if Level 7 will be pre-verdict (which would probably mean a verdict next week so we have a few days to discuss the level :lol:)...or will it be post-verdict (in which case I hope the verdict is read tomorrow lol). Where the heck are ya TS???
@Australian MJ BeLIEver...great catch with the TMZ/Google screenshot. Nothing like being at the right place and the right time!
funny story. actually i wasnt in the right place at the right time... i was at the supermarket down the street. was waiting in line to be served. got out my andoid phone and googled dr murrays name to see if there were any news updates. the result came up with the documentary comment, and i was like. huh? what is this? i thought it was inferring mj was creating a doco and naturally my hoaxy brain associated this with a possible bam... so i got out of there, raced home in my car like a speed demon and googled CM on my laptop. the same result came up with the page saying article removed. quickly screen shot it and saved it to photo bucket. now when you google it, that search result doesnt come up anymore... so yeah, glad i caught it for us.
I guess TS is going to post just after the verdict on the 5th of November. And that's when level 7 begins. :D
That would be great! I was wondering about it being a Saturday. I know that the trial wasn't 'on' on Saturdays (although other trials sometimes are)...but does anyone know if during deliberations, a jury 'works' through the weekend regardless (i.e. can a verdict come at anytime, including the weekend...or if it's not reached by day's end tomorrow, do they go home for the weekend and begin again on Monday?)
Not sure how that works given this trial was only Monday to Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I guess TS is going to post just after the verdict on the 5th of November. And that's when level 7 begins. :D
That would be great! I was wondering about it being a Saturday. I know that the trial wasn't 'on' on Saturdays (although other trials sometimes are)...but does anyone know if during deliberations, a jury 'works' through the weekend regardless (i.e. can a verdict come at anytime, including the weekend...or if it's not reached by day's end tomorrow, do they go home for the weekend and begin again on Monday?)
Not sure how that works given this trial was only Monday to Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Jacko doc’s shopping story
Last Updated: 12:22 AM, November 2, 2011
Posted: 12:06 AM, November 2, 2011
| More Print
While Dr. Conrad Murray stands trial for the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson, he’s been quietly filming a blockbuster documentary that’s being shopped to major TV networks.
Sources say Murray, who announced yesterday that he will not testify in his defense, has sold the rights “to his story” to a production company that’s been filming interviews with him daily as the trial progresses.
The unidentified production company is shopping the documentary as a package deal that would also include a video diary and a sit-down interview with Murray.
Conrad Murray
UPI
Conrad Murray
“A news division that pays for the documentary will end up with a side deal of getting the sit-down with Conrad,” a source said. “It’s crafted in such a way for a news division that doesn’t pay for interviews.”
We hear the production outfit has been aiming to sell the documentary for $1 million. It is not clear how much would go to Murray.
“They have already filmed a long interview in case he’s taken into custody,” a source told Page Six.
CNN was interested in buying the footage, one source said, but a CNN rep told us last night that although they were pitched on it, they declined. “We are not considering, we passed on it,” a network rep told us.
Other sources say NBC is close to securing the deal, possibly for the “Today” show.”
“I question whether there is enough interest in him,” a competitor mused. “It’s more interesting if he’s found not guilty.”
Murray could face up to four years in prison and lose his medical license if he’s convicted of being criminally negligent in administering the anesthetic propofol before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Tomorrow, both sides are expected to present closing arguments.
A spokesperson for Murray’s lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, declined to comment, citing a gag order on the case. NBC also declined to comment.
funny story. actually i wasnt in the right place at the right time... i was at the supermarket down the street. was waiting in line to be served. got out my andoid phone and googled dr murrays name to see if there were any news updates. the result came up with the documentary comment, and i was like. huh? what is this? i thought it was inferring mj was creating a doco and naturally my hoaxy brain associated this with a possible bam... so i got out of there, raced home in my car like a speed demon and googled CM on my laptop. the same result came up with the page saying article removed. quickly screen shot it and saved it to photo bucket. now when you google it, that search result doesnt come up anymore... so yeah, glad i caught it for us.
LOL...great story! We're 'hoax-ified' :lol:...I live, breathe, and eat 'hoax', it's with me wherever I go. It really is an 'alternate reality'...like we're in on a big secret lol. Thanks for sharing ::P
With L.O.V.E. always.
-when an ambulance or fire truck passes by, you can't help but get the urge to pull out your camera and try to take a picture through a dark window.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUaMzwNPgro&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUaMzwNPgro&feature=related[/youtube]
Perfection.
Thanks for adding this to the thread Im_convinced, good timing ::P.
I'll be there....looking like I haven't slept in a few years, but I'll be there.
With L.O.V.E. always.
"Will You Be There"
Hold MeLike The River Jordan
And I Will Then Say To Thee
You Are My Friend
Carry Me
Like You Are My Brother
Love Me Like A Mother
Will You Be There?
Weary
Tell Me Will You Hold Me
When Wrong, Will You Scold Me
When Lost Will You Find Me?
But They Told Me
A Man Should Be Faithful
And Walk When Not Able
And Fight Till The End
But I'm Only Human
Everyone's Taking Control Of Me
Seems That The World's
Got A Role For Me
I'm So Confused
Will You Show To Me
You'll Be There For Me
And Care Enough To Bear Me
(Hold Me)
(Lay Your Head Lowly)
(Softly Then Boldly)
(Carry Me There)
(Lead Me)
(Love Me And Feed Me)
(Kiss Me And Free Me)
(I Will Feel Blessed)
(Carry)
(Carry Me Boldly)
(Lift Me Up Slowly)
(Carry Me There)
(Save Me)
(Heal Me And Bathe Me)
(Softly You Say To Me)
(I Will Be There)
(Lift Me)
(Lift Me Up Slowly)
(Carry Me Boldly)
(Show Me You Care)
(Hold Me)
(Lay Your Head Lowly)
(Softly Then Boldly)
(Carry Me There)
(Need Me)
(Love Me And Feed Me)
(Kiss Me And Free Me)
(I Will Feel Blessed)
[Spoken]
In Our Darkest Hour
In My Deepest Despair
Will You Still Care?
Will You Be There?
In My Trials
And My Tribulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain
Through My Joy And My Sorrow
In The Promise Of Another Tomorrow
I'll Never Let You Part
For You're Always In My Heart.
You are all amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am seeing "signs" everywhere now and it is really "freaky", but at the same time it is absolutely amazing!! Never in a million years would I have believed that anything like this was even "possible", But it was Michael who taught me to "open" my mind to all possibilities and when I did...well you guys understand. There is some "Mind" blowing stuff going on right now...Pun intended! lol
We really do create our own reality...we are "spiritual beings" living a "Human experience", and the world is changing before our eyes because of people, like us who truly "Believe".
We will be here Michael...Always and Forever! We are ONE...We are LOVE!
Sending you all LOVE...Please know how much I appreciate all of you and what you do! Remember that we are not alone!!!!!! THIS IS IT!
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
This is the vision of a person who does not believe that Michael is alive,...
They said they reached a verdict... any minute now. But something tells me it wont be read until the 5th of november. Actually, it would be awesome if the verdict is read today & BAM is tomorrow! /bravo/
I'm sorry this is off topic, but i don't know where to post it.
Donte Jackson just twitted something amazing. :)
Donte_Jackson Donte Jackson
in the coming years there will be an emergence of young buddhas and christ-like beings. i believe an enlightened age is upon us. #Oneness
Donte_Jackson Donte Jackson
2012 is not the end of anything but the systems currently governing our society. on 12/21/2012 we mystics will be dancing and celebrating.
party/
HLN's reporting is conflicting. Now Katherine IS going to court and the jury has not reached any verdict.
latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
by VinniePolitan
@hlntv #MurrayTrial @issueswithjvm @vinniepolitan JUSTICE HAS TO BE SERVED ON MURRAY AND THEN WE MUST GO AFTER THE OTHER CONSPIRES!
Why don't she TELL what those other ones ARE???
Remember remember the 5th of November...
OK. so we have now passed the 7th hour of deliberations. I wonder if the Jury will stay until around Midnight; then bam us with a verdict. This way we get the Nov 5th date; yet if its "close to Midnight" (Thriller) they will not have to stay in on Sat... Joe & Katherine are already close by. They will give the rest of the family a 2hr warning in order to get to the Courthouse; so I say they will possibly announce around 10pm... lolol/ I know they aren't sequestered and can leave soon; but what if they volunteer to stay? Is that a possibility? or will it be tonight at the last minute before they are dismissed for the day?
HLN is talking about the Elephant in the Courtroom. smiley_spider
Remember remember the 5th of November...
OK. so we have now passed the 7th hour of deliberations. I wonder if the Jury will stay until around Midnight; then bam us with a verdict. This way we get the Nov 5th date; yet if its "close to Midnight" (Thriller) they will not have to stay in on Sat... Joe & Katherine are already close by. They will give the rest of the family a 2hr warning in order to get to the Courthouse; so I say they will possibly announce around 10pm... lolol/ I know they aren't sequestered and can leave soon; but what if they volunteer to stay? Is that a possibility? or will it be tonight at the last minute before they are dismissed for the day?
HLN is talking about the Elephant in the Courtroom. smiley_spider
I know this is a LITTLE bit off topic,hey I have a question for you all geek/!!!!!
Do you all remember when we all disscussed about ILLUMINATI? Well since Fordtocarr,was tweeting, what Latoya said about CONSPIRATORS does anybody here still BELIEVE in ILLUMINATI and CONSPIRATORS geek/?????
I will say what I always said,ILLUMINATI is a ILLUSION to scare PEOPLE,lol :lol: and if you want to see how RIDICULOUS this theory sounds,please WATCH IT LIVE at MURRAY trial ;) !!!
WAIT,WAIT,maybe I was wrong and SECRET GOVERNMENT killed Michael after all :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!! Watch starting at 2:45,ENJOY and please keep BELIEVING that ILLUMINATTI still EXIST!!!! :lol: mj_bad/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jb-QOeRmIE&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
I posted this in another thread that doesn't really get read, but I think it is also relevant here. Please know that this is only my opinion, I am in no way trying to force this upon you. These are only my thoughts right now.
Blessings
Humanity's "FEAR" is keeping all of these "Boogey men" and "secret societies" alive...this is a way to control us! If we BELIEVE what the evil forces are telling us to believe then you yourself are creating that reality!!!! Once you understand that , you can then see how if you consciously change your thought patterns and think positive thoughts, thoughts of LOVE, then that is what you will create!! In order to make that change you have to really do it!!
This whole concept is hard for many to grasp, but when you do...HOLD ON TIGHT...be prepared to be blown away. The pieces just fall into place until nothing else makes sense!
This trial is just one part to this, but it is an important part. Look how the world is watching and talking about Michael right now . In the end Michael is going to be able to prove how easy it really is to control your MIND!!! Everyone, well most of the world thinks that Michael is dead. Why? because they believed what they were told!! POINT BLANK... no questions asked! That is control. Most of humanity is under mind control by the dark forces, but there are others, like myself, who have been awakened. I believe that we are meant to be loving beings and somewhere along the line we lost our true selves. Now it is time for all of us to reclaim the life that we were meant to live. We need to search within ourselves for "TRUTH". It is our "Time To Shine"!
This is all one big lesson for humanity. We have to be strong for what is to come. When the truth is fully revealed, the world is going to change as we know it. I do believe that we have been receiving help from others in the universe...wholeheartedly, and when that is revealed to the general public, most will be fearful, when there is nothing to be afraid of at all...If you truly believe what Michael has been telling us all along..."We need to bring LOVE back to the planet. We need to LOVE one another" We are filled with LOVE and LIGHT energy and when you realize how powerful that really is , in a good way, then you will Believe that all of this is really happening!
Each of us is on our own journey, yet our final goal is the same the Common Bond OF...LOVE!
Keep searching until you just KNOW!!!!
I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh I just saw on the ABC special that one of the Cascios says that he told Michael, "You don't want to end up like Elvis, do you?" and that Michael was mad that he would even say that. Another Elvis mention.... I knew the verdict wasn't coming today. Gotta let it simmer. Haven't you learned anything from This Is It? ;)
Oh I just saw on the ABC special that one of the Cascios says that he told Michael, "You don't want to end up like Elvis, do you?" and that Michael was mad that he would even say that. Another Elvis mention.... I knew the verdict wasn't coming today. Gotta let it simmer. Haven't you learned anything from This Is It? ;)
;)
Patience, is the key to victory.
"Good things come to those who wait for it with perseverance and patience; but the impulsive and impatient person will pass from trouble to trouble."
I posted this in another thread that doesn't really get read, but I think it is also relevant here. Please know that this is only my opinion, I am in no way trying to force this upon you. These are only my thoughts right now.
Blessings
Humanity's "FEAR" is keeping all of these "Boogey men" and "secret societies" alive...this is a way to control us! If we BELIEVE what the evil forces are telling us to believe then you yourself are creating that reality!!!! Once you understand that , you can then see how if you consciously change your thought patterns and think positive thoughts, thoughts of LOVE, then that is what you will create!! In order to make that change you have to really do it!!
This whole concept is hard for many to grasp, but when you do...HOLD ON TIGHT...be prepared to be blown away. The pieces just fall into place until nothing else makes sense!
This trial is just one part to this, but it is an important part. Look how the world is watching and talking about Michael right now . In the end Michael is going to be able to prove how easy it really is to control your MIND!!! Everyone, well most of the world thinks that Michael is dead. Why? because they believed what they were told!! POINT BLANK... no questions asked! That is control. Most of humanity is under mind control by the dark forces, but there are others, like myself, who have been awakened. I believe that we are meant to be loving beings and somewhere along the line we lost our true selves. Now it is time for all of us to reclaim the life that we were meant to live. We need to search within ourselves for "TRUTH". It is our "Time To Shine"!
This is all one big lesson for humanity. We have to be strong for what is to come. When the truth is fully revealed, the world is going to change as we know it. I do believe that we have been receiving help from others in the universe...wholeheartedly, and when that is revealed to the general public, most will be fearful, when there is nothing to be afraid of at all...If you truly believe what Michael has been telling us all along..."We need to bring LOVE back to the planet. We need to LOVE one another" We are filled with LOVE and LIGHT energy and when you realize how powerful that really is , in a good way, then you will Believe that all of this is really happening!
Each of us is on our own journey, yet our final goal is the same the Common Bond OF...LOVE!
Keep searching until you just KNOW!!!!
I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mjj4ever you are wrong that nobody is reading your posts,lol lolol/.I had just finished to read your post in the topic about New Jesus.You are really SPECIAL,you know that???I also read your post about CAN YOU FEEL IT
song,and and I gave you,even an ANSWER,but you did not reply to me:oops: .
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg368059#new (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg368059#new)
I don't know if you saw my message to you,but if you want ,please read it.
I will surprise you with a BOMB,lol, Donte Jackson knew all along ,I'm sure.Read here and DECIDE for yourself :shock::
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/cjcntx/Donte_Revolution.jpg)
It's one thing to be awake and aware, but to have hope we must Come Together to Make That Change! A Peaceful, Legal, Revolution to spread Truth.
"We are all doing too much sitting back, and reading & watching TV saying how awful it is and not actually doing something about it." Michael Jackson
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltvg6dNrhf1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltpc52uCvM1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
By the way does anybody here remember my post about Jim Carrey???? Well I think words are in vain...... ;)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltnt1sP0uC1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
I'm still wondering how much of court/jury is 'real' and how much is hoax. How many of the people we have seen in court are 'in on it'? Many, I'm almost sure, but not all, maybe!
Then the jury - do they think they are deliberating a real case or are they actors? If they are 'real' then wouldn't it follow that MJ has no control over timing or outcome? Either he has plans for every eventuality and can take this forward whatever the jury decides (much like those books my kids used to love in the late '80s/early '90s where you could decide the twists and turns and ultimate end of a story), or he has everything planned already in which case the jury must be 'plants'.
Or could this trial be a joke on the media?
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Friday of week two, on the street, had me in stitches. As I walked up the stairs from my 8AM “hit” on KTLA, I saw a sign where Michael Jackson’s supporters stand that read “Got Milk”. My twisted mind thought that someone creative was “referring to propofol”. When I was close enough to read the entire sign, I realized that Michael Jackson’s supporters had been joined, behind their yellow plastic divider, by a group supporting their friends who were charged with a felony for illegally selling unpasteurized milk, also known as Raw Milk. This group was boisterous and excited to tell me why raw milk is much healthier than the “stuff” we buy in the stores. This group of supporters far outnumbered Michael Jackson’s supporters that day but in my mind, they were all standing behind the yellow plastic divider in passionate unison telling about the harms of “Milk”.
Jesus Christmas. Once again I can hear Mr Front and his got milk quip and Latoya making milkshakes for charity way early in the hoax.@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
(http://www.tanyayoungwilliams.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Got-milk-small.jpg)
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!QuoteFriday of week two, on the street, had me in stitches. As I walked up the stairs from my 8AM “hit” on KTLA, I saw a sign where Michael Jackson’s supporters stand that read “Got Milk”. My twisted mind thought that someone creative was “referring to propofol”. When I was close enough to read the entire sign, I realized that Michael Jackson’s supporters had been joined, behind their yellow plastic divider, by a group supporting their friends who were charged with a felony for illegally selling unpasteurized milk, also known as Raw Milk. This group was boisterous and excited to tell me why raw milk is much healthier than the “stuff” we buy in the stores. This group of supporters far outnumbered Michael Jackson’s supporters that day but in my mind, they were all standing behind the yellow plastic divider in passionate unison telling about the harms of “Milk”.
Jesus Christmas. Once again I can hear Mr Front and his got milk quip and Latoya making milkshakes for charity way early in the hoax.@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
(http://www.tanyayoungwilliams.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Got-milk-small.jpg)
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!QuoteFriday of week two, on the street, had me in stitches. As I walked up the stairs from my 8AM “hit” on KTLA, I saw a sign where Michael Jackson’s supporters stand that read “Got Milk”. My twisted mind thought that someone creative was “referring to propofol”. When I was close enough to read the entire sign, I realized that Michael Jackson’s supporters had been joined, behind their yellow plastic divider, by a group supporting their friends who were charged with a felony for illegally selling unpasteurized milk, also known as Raw Milk. This group was boisterous and excited to tell me why raw milk is much healthier than the “stuff” we buy in the stores. This group of supporters far outnumbered Michael Jackson’s supporters that day but in my mind, they were all standing behind the yellow plastic divider in passionate unison telling about the harms of “Milk”.
Wishingstar, look what you've started here. MJ...you got one whacky sense of humour man, but I'm lovin' it. Now, where did I leave that straight jacket?
Some of MJ's friends and associates gave their account of MJ's pranks and jokes. He was a man that loved to laugh and pull pranks on people. It was often said that you couldn't be near him with out him pulling at least one prank on you, ahh I wish I got a chance to experience that...Michael Jackson - King of....Pranks???
I bow to the KING OF PRANKS bow/ . I loved that video applehead. bearhug
OH, and Applehead, keep a bag packed cause after they pick up wishingstar and myself, they'll be coming for you. /white flag/
(http://christmasmilk.com/images/32oz.jpg) My sweet Wishingstar...you do realize we are way out on a limb with this one. Ah well, it is good to know I will have you for company when they come to take us away. :-[
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!
Let's see,is Michael THE KING OF PRANKS or no lolol/?????QuoteSome of MJ's friends and associates gave their account of MJ's pranks and jokes. He was a man that loved to laugh and pull pranks on people. It was often said that you couldn't be near him with out him pulling at least one prank on you, ahh I wish I got a chance to experience that...Michael Jackson - King of....Pranks???
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUyM5OC7DBM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
LOVE
(http://christmasmilk.com/images/32oz.jpg) My sweet Wishingstar...you do realize we are way out on a limb with this one. Ah well, it is good to know I will have you for company when they come to take us away. :-[
@applehead......LaTotoya looks fabulous with her milkshake : ) I want one!
Yes, Michael is indeed the King of Pranks....what a great, refreshing, fun video to watch....love it! Sam's t-shirt says it all......."The Light at the End of the Tunnel"
LOVE YOU........
Blessings
RK.....I pass the jacket back to you with LOVE bearhug :lol:
It seems that the script is designed to make Murray look as guilty and incompetent as can be. I haven't seen them give the jury any real good reason to acquit.
It looks to me like MJ is stacking the deck to ensure a Guilty verdict because the jury is indeed real, and they must be properly convinced of guilt, without making it obvious that this trial is fake.
@Scorpionchik.....indeed Pianogames..ah, I remember those videos so well...love them. Uri is still an interesting figure to me. I think sometimes he goes under the radar and nobody pays much attention at times....or he's just very quiet. Pianogames was king of the videos at one time. When he did that whole thing about meeting Uri, I was sure they were both in on things....still am fairly sure they are linked to this all somehow. The guy in the video does resemble Pianogames dude....great catch. Why do think all doors are being shut down? Because people talk about Michael in past tense? I feel doors were all closed June 25th and they are now slowly opening one at a time........painstakingly slowly, but opening. One of these doors about to open will be the shock of our lives......shock the world type of shock. Hang in there.....it's only going to get better......it might get more difficult still, but it will get better.
@Blessings to all..........
Yes, good know I'll have company, lol!!! You're too funny..........
I think verdict will be read on either the 7th, the 9th, or the 11th :mrgreen:
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
I think verdict will be read on either the 7th, the 9th, or the 11th :mrgreen:
11.11.11 is an interesting date for sure. ;)
OFF TOPIC: Your siggy is soooooooooooooo adorable MJFAN7. I can not take my eyes off him and the cute kid. :mrgreen:
So, it's obvious that the 'script' called for this, as bec pointed out. Everyone, jury included (IF they are a 'real' jury)...is 'supposed' to think Murray is guilty. A lot of us kept saying that unless Murray takes the stand OR MJ BAMS during the trial...there's not much that will save Murray from a guilty verdict.
But I am still stuck on TS making the point about the jury not being allowed to use the internet and whatever we write here not having any bearing on their decision(s). In one of his recent posts, he pointed towards one of my posts about this very topic...that the jury SHOULD be allowed to see all our research because the only way for them to return a 'true' verdict is for them to know this 'side' of the story.
Then I think about Front's post about 'Exhibit B gonna rock this trial'...there was no such exhibit, at least not that we've seen presented in court (i.e. no exhibit has 'rocked this trial'). It could be that Front was mistaken or that the 'plan' for a certain exhibit changed or that Front is full of shit :lol:. Or maybe, as others have previously stated...maybe WE are exhibit B...the exhibit that is 'gonna rock this trial' and save Murray. Other than a BAM, at this point, WE are the only ones that can save Murray.
Given that it's pretty clear that Mike has 'access' to the courtroom...the toys, the seal, etc...and things can be 'placed' if needed or so desired....what IF, along with all the other evidence, the jury has been given printouts of forum posts, a booklet of some sort showing our 'proof' of Mike being alive? That could explain why there was no quick verdict...and if true, they have a TON of stuff to read lol. It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law...TS did keep telling us that we were being 'tested'
OMG! How could I have missed that! I think you may be on to something. Maybe we (this forum) are exhibit B. Although I don't know how that would come into play since both sides have rested and passed this case on to the jury.
So Nov 5th has come with no verdict, no redirect or post by TS... The only thing happening here is TBS is playing The Wizard of Oz last night and tonight. So I guess like everyone else here I wait for Nov 7th or 11-11-11 to see what happens next.
Praise the Lord & pass the Christmas Milk & Elf Nuts; my bags are packed. beerchug bearhug
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
So, it's obvious that the 'script' called for this, as bec pointed out. Everyone, jury included (IF they are a 'real' jury)...is 'supposed' to think Murray is guilty. A lot of us kept saying that unless Murray takes the stand OR MJ BAMS during the trial...there's not much that will save Murray from a guilty verdict.
But I am still stuck on TS making the point about the jury not being allowed to use the internet and whatever we write here not having any bearing on their decision(s). In one of his recent posts, he pointed towards one of my posts about this very topic...that the jury SHOULD be allowed to see all our research because the only way for them to return a 'true' verdict is for them to know this 'side' of the story.
Then I think about Front's post about 'Exhibit B gonna rock this trial'...there was no such exhibit, at least not that we've seen presented in court (i.e. no exhibit has 'rocked this trial'). It could be that Front was mistaken or that the 'plan' for a certain exhibit changed or that Front is full of shit :lol:. Or maybe, as others have previously stated...maybe WE are exhibit B...the exhibit that is 'gonna rock this trial' and save Murray. Other than a BAM, at this point, WE are the only ones that can save Murray.
Given that it's pretty clear that Mike has 'access' to the courtroom...the toys, the seal, etc...and things can be 'placed' if needed or so desired....what IF, along with all the other evidence, the jury has been given printouts of forum posts, a booklet of some sort showing our 'proof' of Mike being alive? That could explain why there was no quick verdict...and if true, they have a TON of stuff to read lol. It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law...TS did keep telling us that we were being 'tested'
OMG! How could I have missed that! I think you may be on to something. Maybe we (this forum) are exhibit B. Although I don't know how that would come into play since both sides have rested and passed this case on to the jury.
So Nov 5th has come with no verdict, no redirect or post by TS... The only thing happening here is TBS is playing The Wizard of Oz last night and tonight. So I guess like everyone else here I wait for Nov 7th or 11-11-11 to see what happens next.
Praise the Lord & pass the Christmas Milk & Elf Nuts; my bags are packed. beerchug bearhug
That makes absolutely sense. TS must be an insider, someone who knows Michael and the Jacksons, for all we know he can be Michael, (maybe not) he is the one who probably printed out all our hard work to give to the jury to read. Great thinking..
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
Scorpionchick, how do you explain what La Toya said, watch the Illusionist and read between the lines.. I saw the movie and in the movie the doctor was in the hoax with the illusionist. So Murray is in the hoax, that is for sure. What makes you say that Murray is not in the hoax???
This is very IMPORTANT info. I am now stating that these dudes Shafer and White that are quoted in the wiki article are the very same who were on the witness stand. This wiki page is stating that this guy Reuben did the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. This guy influenced how doctors treated patients and pharm companies who made the medicine. He influenced the FDA. The impact of what this guy did is now being seen in patients who took the drugs mentioned. This guy invented patients and never even performed the studies.There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Sarahli-This is very good info you have come across. I had no idea of this but look at the names. This is big. IF these are the very same dudes testifying now, then this info you found could be why these two have been called as expert witnesses. Exposure of corruption? smiley_spiderQuote"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. "His findings had a huge impact on the field." He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.
My list could never get specific and name names because there is most likely never going to be full disclosure of who the targets are/were and who they caught with the sting.and recently TS spoke on the subject. Even though he was answering Anna about the 911 call timing he did add
The reality is that some things are complex, and most likely you will NEVER get answers to any and all possible questions on all of the fine details of how everything happened—not now, or even after BAM.
Trublu wrote: “A simple explanation about the time being shown an reported as 12:21 would have been a lot simpler.”{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365855.html#msg365855}.
What if the explanation is NOT simple (which is the case with the 911 call)? The reality is that some things are complex, and most likely you will NEVER get answers to any and all possible questions on all of the fine details of how everything happened—not now, or even after BAM.
I am adding videos from E. Fleak's testimony because there is alot of info in her statements made during her testimony that show incompetence regardless of the fact that the death wasn't ruled a homicide until later. Even IF it was just a death scene when she went in I would think that it would be common sense to treat the scene as IF there may be foul play just in case it turns out that way. The evidence she could have documented on that day could be scrutinized later and would be helpful now during the trial.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNPLfnNom8&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]QuoteUploaded by JustMeSTKK on Oct 6, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 8 - 06.10.2011
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 3, 2011The part where the judge is explaining the jury instructions and telling the jury about closing arguements is important. The DA and Defense are only providing their theory and over view of the case and should not be taken into consideration of evidence. Based on that, if the DA's case is reviewed based on evidence he submitted to prove the case of Murray's criminal Guilt- he failed. There is to much reasonable doubt to contradict his theories and the evidence.
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Judge Michael Pastor reading jurors instructions
Jurors instructions in written:
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 4, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Prosecution's closing arguments
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 3, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Defense's closing arguments.
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 3, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Prosecution's rebuttal.
Judge Michael Pastor reading final instructions
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
I think verdict will be read on either the 7th, the 9th, or the 11th :mrgreen:i am always mesmerized by your signatures!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)Lovely, cute moving images of Mike(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!
It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law.And Exhibit B could even be B-am itself! Although I think that's unlikely.
"So Michael and I went in search of his perfect ranch. We used to sneak away by ourselves to look at ranches and see what was available.Michael Jackson, Miko Brando and I drove up to Santa Barbara, which is about 80 miles from Encino. Bill Bray also came along to drive and to protect us. Michael and Miko had been at the Cal Prep School together as schoolmates since a young age, and Miko was Michael's closest and dearest friend. Just the four of us went, with Miko driving part of the way. (Michael liked to drive his own Mercedes Benz when he could, so he drove part of the way as well).
We passed by a pasture, which was full of baby calves; it was a dairy farm and all the baby calves were nursing from the udders of their mothers. Michael was so thrilled! He was screaming with joy, so happy and laughing. He loved to watch the animals being fed. We stopped and stood on the fence and watched them. The farmer came over, and asked us, "What are you doing here?"
"Well, we're watching the calves taking milk from their mothers." I replied. "Is that okay? Do you mind?"
"No, not at all I was just curious. Nobody ever stops by." The farmer was friendly, and it was apparent that he didn't realize he was talking to Michael Jackson. So Michael started asking him a lot of questions about the gestation period of a calf. How long does it take to have a baby calf? How long before a mother no longer has to feed a baby calf? Michael really had the head of a milk farmer! He was Interested in raising animals. He asked all kinds of questions about their breeds. There were a couple of big black stud bulls there. The milk farm had hundreds of calves all sired by the stud bulls. Michael was fascinated by this and got involved in the discussion of how to create a dairy farm and how milk is pasteurized.
I want you to know that Michael was actually taught then and there by that farmer how to milk a Holstein cow: by aiming two udders into a bucket!
It was a thrill to watch him milk the cow. They tried to teach me, Miko Brando and Michael's major domo Bill Bray how to milk a cow, too, but Michael was the best. He actually managed to fill the bucket to the rim and loved doing it.
Bill Bray kept on rushing us to get back on the road. With a quick aim, Michael squirted cow's milk right into Bill's face. Poor Bill wiped off his wet face with a handkerchief as the farmer roared with laughter and Michael squealed with joy He announced he'd like to move In and become a dairy farmer.
It was really quite funny as the farmer never realized Michael was a celebrity. He was really not In tune with the world of show business, only with his pastures and his cows. Michael took full advantage of it and enjoyed being anonymous. The farmer did ask where we were from so we said Encino in the San Fernando Valley. He did not connect Michael with being the King of Pop in the musical world."http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041 (http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041)
From Front:Quote28… 71…80… 37…
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
the "N"ew, the "CHA_GE" --- if it makes you wonder
relapse back, mesh letter to number
won't be long 'til you hear that thunder……………
I think “Exhibit B” literally is Dr Murray! Here is why I think this:
If you have a look at this video from Day 2 of the trial (sorry – I couldn’t find a shorter clip).
Go to around 24:30 onwards when the Defence plays the video of Dr Murray walking along the corridor of UCLA. They state at the beginning that the video is “Defence B”…which I think would also be the same as “Exhibit B” (since Defence give letters to their evidence and Prosecution give numbers to their evidence)
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcfpl3N4P40 [/youtube]
Unfortunately the bit where it actually shows Dr M walking is cut off and is shown in the next part right at the very start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVofTdMvj4 (sorry this YouTube vid won't post here - keeps coming up with invalid YouTube link)
Also TMZ posted the video which was labelled as "Defence B" and they have the name CONRAD in inverted comma’s …..like “CONRAD” with a big red arrow pointing at him walking…..almost trying to point out that "CONRAD" is actually Defence’s Exhibit B!!!
http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_rbia31d8
So what is “CONRAD” going to do that will rock the trial???????
I know this debate has been taking place in another thread regarding the identity of Dr Murray and whether it is really MJ in disguise. I am not saying he is or isn’t but I am thinking Exhibit B is Dr Murray and wonder what he is going to do to “rock that trial”. Also – interesting to re-read this other post by Front which was posted in the thread "Michael's Reasons to hoax his death / Re: If (when) MJ comes back - will we believe its him ?"
From Front:QuotePerhaps he will be standing right in front of us---in the FLESH…………
{Michael, wearing a clown suit--or maybe a Pink Panther disguise--removes his garb}
Fans: {in astonishment and disbelief} Michael, is that really you? NO! It can't be!
Michael: Yes, it's really me! {turns around slowly for all to see} Did you really think I ever left?
Fans: {looking hard with scrutinizing, hoaxy eyes spinning like pinwheels} Nah…it's not him. It's just some dude in an MJ disguise underneath that clown/Pink Panther suit.
{fans turn and walk away, fraught with disappointment}
Michael: {standing alone…shakes his head…and breaks out into a rendition of 99 Bottles Of Beer On The Wall} 99 bottles of Propofol… 99 bottles of Propofol… take 1 down, pass it around--oops! where did it go?….. 98 bottles of Propofol………
[.....]^^ It DOES sound crazy and far fetched indeed!!
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TSQuoteWell, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!
suspicious//
[...]
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
This is the pic I found about his "vitiligo-hand"?? loll WTF??[.....]^^ It DOES sound crazy and far fetched indeed!!
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TSQuoteWell, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!
suspicious//
[...]
It DID sound like that too back in 2009 when the first beLIEvers were trying to prove that Dave Dave was actually Michael!
So no wonder that another crazy disguise like that would be again 'welcome" with negativity and repulsion. loll
I'm not saying I'm sure Murray is Michael in disguise. I'm saying that it could be possible and I beLIEve Michael could be capable of doing anything!! if Dave Dave was the coolest disguise I've ever seen, I'm sure Michael wanted to surprise us and surpass himself with another even more cool disguise!
Why not Murray??
Especially because we know that before 2005 or so , no one has heard of him!
I remember watching hoax-videos in 2009 about Murray and how people tried to look for him on the internet and other medical data bases, they did pretty much extensive research on him and they found nothing! As if he never existed before!!
Then people found out about that "white-Murray", then they found out about another "black -Murray" who is also an actor and resembles a lot to Murray!
Then they found out that Murray's hand looks whiter in some parts, as if he had vitiligo!
Then they found out that Murray dressed during the trial of 2010 exactly like he dressed during MJ's trial in 2005.
I mean come on this guy is really bizarre to say the least!
Even if he exists for real, that wouldn't be impossible for Michael to get disguised like him. Do you remember that at a certain point there were beLIEvers who noticed some height differences between one dr. Murray appearing at a certain time and another dr. Murray that appeared some other time??
I am so sorry I never really took into consideration this possibility^^ of "Murray-the disguise" only up until 1-2 months ago... Otherwise I would have collected pics and links to sustain everything I have written here above^^ Everything is just according to what I can remember about this guy so far...in these 2 hoax-years
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
Thank you RK and Wishingstar (for the record, I think I have now official gone nuts! My padded cell is waiting for me as we speak)
I googled "Elf Nuts" after you posted the link to their FB page RK and found their website. One thing jumped out at me. I read the "About Us" stories on both Christmas Milk (CM) and Elf Nuts and thought it was interesting that a portion of their proceeds go to help children in foster care (I remember reading Michael wanted to do a documentary about children raised in foster care) and of course he loved Christmas "all year long" too.
It's amazing how small the world really is...everything connects to something in some small way.
Coincidence?....maybe...maybe not?
I remember reading Michael wanted to do a documentary about children raised in foster care)
[. . . . .](http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5203/27014115857841765789100.jpg)
This is the pic I found about his "vitiligo-hand"?? loll WTF??
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3323/2n0uio8.jpg)
The original pic:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6214/33d666c283627acf2861df6.jpg)
A reminder about the toys in the courtroom (I'm thinking Hoax Court)^^ :lol: :lol:
(http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/442420062.jpg)
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
After his death, the autopsy report revealed that Michael Jackson had a strong heart and was a "fairly healthy" 50-year-old.
Quote from: Ijustcantstoplovingu on November 05, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
Just a couple of things I noticed whilst watching, David Guest refered to the allagations being a "hoax" umm.?
Did anyone else read the credits, @2.34.37 Dead or Alive Films? Or am I over hoaxing
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
BEC you are MY HERO !!!!!
His GLOBAL PROJECT will soon be REALIZED,but not until people will WAKE UP from this CON .Remember WE have 4 years to MAKE IT RIGHT,and as TS said 12.12 2012 will not be THE END.Seems to me that people are not paying attention to what is really Important,because as I said before,THE TRIAL is a DIVERSION!!!!!!Murray was never Michael's doctor.Michael's heart was in perfect shape,REMEMBER 8-)????QuoteAfter his death, the autopsy report revealed that Michael Jackson had a strong heart and was a "fairly healthy" 50-year-old.
He was someones else doctor.It Is very easy to guess because "Murray" is a HEART DISEASE DOCTOR.Does Heart failure tells you something ;)????
Now let's go BACK to what TS said.All this hoax begun in 2009 with 911 call,right??? Which was also at the BEGINING in David Guest's documentary,LIFE OF AN I-CON .I'm telling you that nobody paid attention to what this documentary was reallly about,because some were to DAM busy bulling David geek/ .Negativity again,and agian,distractions,distractions..... /cook/ .
This is what I replied to Ijustcantstoplovingu today:QuoteQuote from: Ijustcantstoplovingu on November 05, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
Just a couple of things I noticed whilst watching, David Guest refered to the allagations being a "hoax" umm.?
Did anyone else read the credits, @2.34.37 Dead or Alive Films? Or am I over hoaxing
Very good observation,very,very good,you have MY RESPECT respect/ !!!!
I'm trying to tell THIS to people for more than 1 year now,but no one BELIEVES me.THE 2005 trial was/is the BIGGEST HOAX beside this HOAX we have,for more than 20 years.I had put the PHOTO of the DVD on this forum already but no one even noticed that the picture shows a YOUNG Michael,not the RECENT MICHAEL 8-) .No one even asked why "Why has this come at the END of the MURRAY TRIAL? WHY?? Who manipulated this whole thing 8-) ? "
(http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/image-library/port/376/m/michael-jackson-life-of-an-icon-dvd_09,11.jpg)
NOBODY even asked WHY,another old picture was used for the cover /cook/ .The mask is slowly being removed ;) . BIG clue: The title itself...LIFE of an I-CON.Does anybody here knows what CON means or I have to say this myself???? It seems that people already forget what Latoys said:"READ BETEWN THE LINES",GOD damit albino/ 8-) !!!!!
I really hope that what I juat wrote will be an EYE OPEN for all who reads my posts.I'm only doing this because OF LOVE I feel !!!!!
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
Question: So are you saying this whole hoax is just for entertainment? Nothing serious behind it at all, such as exposing TPTB etc?
Or are you saying the court is just for entertainment?
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
[...]I hope these pics are of greater help... as you can see he wore different neck-lace pendants , if I may call them so!
But could also be a Tartessian star or the northern star. Need a closer look.
[...]
He also wore a lot of different 'chest-pendants" or insignia! I hope I use the right term. [I will soon make a montage on them]
I wonder what they all meant! I'm sure Michael didn't wear them just for fashion's sake! They mean/meant something to him!!
[...]
Wow...........Now 2005 trial was hoax :shock:
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
[...] top right, on the jacket, it´s clearly a batch that belongs to an Order, but need to see the symbol inside the circle to determinate to which order it belongs.WOOW! now that's really interesting!!
If it is a star, there are specific rules to whom the star is given, and this it´s even more interesting since it´s only given to certain nobles (knights), head of the state, or royalty related. The ones given the star become the supervisors or "head" of certain charities (hospital related usually) and performs duties.
All depends which symbol is inside the "batch star", but Gold/white/blue with the star inside would be the "Order of the (Northen) Star" , i.e
Wow...........Now 2005 trial was hoax :shock:
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
[..]
Sorry...it can't get any clearer than this:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8364/mj2005trial004.jpg)
All of those emblems / insignias he's wearing appear to be the insignas of english army regiments. Some i recognise for sure.Thanks a lot!
Wow...........Now 2005 trial was hoax :shock:
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
Believe me when I say I am only speculating everything....I have a very difficult time piecing this together. A very difficult time.
I am in no way meaning a disrespect to Mr.M or anyone who worked endlessly to make sure Michael was not found guilty. The only thing I have ever truly believed, is that Michael would slit his own wrists before hurting a child ......even more so than this hoax. How anyone could ever accuse him, or believe that of him are the delusional ones for sure...anyone would agree. From where I stand at the moment, anything is possible with Michael...anything. People have said he is Jesus.....literally. I don't mean offense, and I am not trying to be childlike. Scorpion, I love you.....nothing but respect, please know that.
Blessings
I think that the 2005 Trial was at least partially hoaxed!
I think the accusations were for real! Someone was really after Michael!
The jackasses Tom Ssssssneddon and Martin BaSHIT were just the 'front-faces" of the conspirators, because there was a conspiracy against Michael!! to get his catalogue and to make him pay for exposing the Illuminati in his videos/lyrics, for trying to make the world a better place while their plan is to ruin this world!
But Michael managed "to outhink them" as he himself said! he somehow found out what was coming for him! He waited and "played their game", he carefully arranged every detail of his case, together with his great team of lawyers and I think he always knew he was gonna win the lawsuit! he knew what absurd, hilarious things they had to present against him in court and he knew what proofs he had to demolish their case! It was not an easy thing to do, that's for sure. But it was a certain victory!
I don't know yet, I couldn't figure it out yet how much of the 2005 Trial was for real and which parts were part of the hoax... Maybe I am wrong , maybe all those other people who think like me are wrong too! But the thing is that there is something "fishy" with that Trial!
And regarding Murray's trial I have NO doubt: it is a HOAX! not a hoax, better said a MOVIE from A to Z! :lol:
4-25. The End of the World Is Good News!
So this whole hoax was kicked off with a 911 call, which represents the NWO (911 terrorism); and it was made at 12:21, which represents the end of the world (12-21-2012). These are two of the main reasons for the hoax. And yes, these are the two main subjects covered in TIAI Revealed {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts)}.
But many are having difficulty accepting these two reasons, especially the end of the world. However, whether or not you believe the end is near, you can’t change the fact that it is part of the hoax and MJ’s message—which can be seen very clearly from the call at 12:21, as well as “Jackson” and the other parallels in the 2012 movie {http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aznBAuj4Vw}.
If we understood that the end of the world is a good thing, it might be easier to accept. “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away [end of the world] … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain …” (Revelation 21:1,4).
The end of the world is only bad news, for those who are not ready. If you don’t want the end of the world to come, maybe you need to take a look at the man in the mirror. God has promised to His faithful: “A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.” (Psalm 91:7).
:shock:I think that the 2005 Trial was at least partially hoaxed!
I think the accusations were for real! Someone was really after Michael!
The jackasses Tom Ssssssneddon and Martin BaSHIT were just the 'front-faces" of the conspirators, because there was a conspiracy against Michael!! to get his catalogue and to make him pay for exposing the Illuminati in his videos/lyrics, for trying to make the world a better place while their plan is to ruin this world!
But Michael managed "to outhink them" as he himself said! he somehow found out what was coming for him! He waited and "played their game", he carefully arranged every detail of his case, together with his great team of lawyers and I think he always knew he was gonna win the lawsuit! he knew what absurd, hilarious things they had to present against him in court and he knew what proofs he had to demolish their case! It was not an easy thing to do, that's for sure. But it was a certain victory!
I don't know yet, I couldn't figure it out yet how much of the 2005 Trial was for real and which parts were part of the hoax... Maybe I am wrong , maybe all those other people who think like me are wrong too! But the thing is that there is something "fishy" with that Trial!
And regarding Murray's trial I have NO doubt: it is a HOAX! not a hoax, better said a MOVIE from A to Z! :lol:
SimPattyK I'm sorry to tell you , but THIS is not a the kind of MOVIE you think it is.
IT IS much,much more than that, IT IS DIVINITY in MOTION.
Do you reallly think Michael risked his "CAREER" and REPUTATION for just ONE MOVIE ??????
Simpa I was reffering to THE MOVIE aspect that you pointed out,nothing more.The rest have nothing to do with you,I alologise if you understood something else,it was not my intention to offend you :(!!!
Regarding Jesus paralels,believe me I know about that topic,OH GOD,how could I NOT :cry:?????? Actually I read all your posts,and let me tell you ,that you are WONDERFUL!!!
You helped me very much in my investigastion,THANK YOU :)!!!!
Now I want to challenge you and ask you,that if you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT?????? Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX???? For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this 8-)???? LOVE you!!!
- If you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT??????
- Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX????
- For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this 8-)????
Just wanted to say THIS: TS' absence is not quite encouraging.......I hope she/he doesn't think now that Murray is guilty. With all that evidence, one can never know....
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't think its quite that black and white. I think there's a lot of things that little ol' me cannot fathom about what's possible if you're Michael Jackson.
Yes, I think it's perfectly legal. It's a movie. They do it all the time, it's usually just public knowledge that a movie is being made. I don't believe there has been any illegal activity conducted in the course of this hoax.
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
a
I am aware that Michael suppositly called Propofol Milk that why I made thr comment jokinly that hearing reading about Christmas "Milk" made me thing of Propofol.
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't think its quite that black and white. I think there's a lot of things that little ol' me cannot fathom about what's possible if you're Michael Jackson.
Yes, I think it's perfectly legal. It's a movie. They do it all the time, it's usually just public knowledge that a movie is being made. I don't believe there has been any illegal activity conducted in the course of this hoax.
This is not an ordinary movie. This is something that has never ever done before. And faking your death is not legal as we know. Movie or not. And especially if you're thinking about a return. I also do not believe Michael would BAM and say, "Hey, it was just a movie!" He would lose his reputation and all the non-believer fans would hate him if he doesn't give a good reason for faking his death. A couple of good friends in high authorities do not solve everything. Finally they need to give an explanation to wherever they work, FBI or the Government. So, the sting is the perfect scenario for this hoax. Otherwise, all the fake documents, fake courts would put Michael behind bars. And saying it was just a movie wouldn't fix everything and save him.
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Are you referring to my post Ford? Because I didn't write anything like the court is real.
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Are you referring to my post Ford? Because I didn't write anything like the court is real.
Nope darlin'...there was a post in there..or two..
But, I'm referring to the one saying this is a real court...whoever said it is. I simply disagree.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a sting/hoax court, but NOT real. And I do believe there will be something from Michael in the way of using it for money..as in movie mentions or something...or maybe just "Murray's" documentary.
MJJ4ever77 I am thinking the same way as you. Michael has been preparing us for the coming golden age, new age of aquarius. It is supposed to be a new age of peace and spirituality and consciousness. It's all about living in a world of love and peace. It's supposed to be the next step in evolution or evolving. It's complicated but research ascension,DNA activation, christ conciousness, light codes,light bodies, angels, astrology, quantum physics, mayan calendar. MJJ look at what I wrote under the topic New-Jesus. It seems that we are thinking alike.
In order to change the world we need a new consciousness including "A Love Revolution". This is why we need the army of love.
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
I'm the one who thinks It's all a movie. Direct all aghast comments re: this theory to me.
But then I also believe much of MJ's life for the past 25 years was an illusion surrounding a persona designed for publicity.
You can say I think It's *just* a movie, but in my opinion there is nothing *just* about It. I can only call It a "movie" because that's the closest medium that currently exists to It. It's a lengthy piece of public performance art designed to entertain, educate, illuminate, shock, and surprise. It's a magic show, a movie, a stage play, a public service message, an interactive internet-based ARG... It's a whole lot of things.
But, in my opinion, what It is not, is a sting on some illusive and unidentifiable "bad guys"... cuz that is the part of the story line that was designed to hoax US. Well that and the doubles theory. Yeah I fell for that one too.
Because stop for just one second and think... what makes you think you're so special that you didn't fall for some aspect of the hoax story line yourself? All these people firmly believe MJ was a drug addict who was emaciated like a cancer patient and allowed some piss ant AEG company pull to wool over his eyes and work him to death to the tune of *surprise* 50 shows. That's what they believe, maybe not all of it, but all non-believers believe some aspect of those fabrications.
So what makes anyone of us here think that we are above being fooled by this man?
I'm almost certain that when MJ bam's, that at least one part of the truth, that will come out, will be a total shock to me that I will never see coming. Some of you might snicker and think to yourself "yeah, like it all being a movie, bec? Ha", but as sure of anything in this hoax, I'm nearly certain that the serious focus is on removing the chi-mo stigma from MJ's name, and precious little else. Otherwise, he is performing his craft: an illusion.
Michael Jackson is almost certainly fooling each and every one of us right now, so pick your poison. That's why It's all for love, right? To the non-believer fans, It's all for love; he's not being cruel, he's trying to save you. To the media, It's all for love; It's not fraud, It's to teach you a valuable lesson going forward about looking for the truth before reporting the story. To the general public, It's all for love; It's to enlighten you as to how easy it is to "create" a reality and have it reported on the news. To the hoaxers, It's all for love; It's all to help you reach a higher level of awareness by teaching you... (to be determined).
I don't think we know as much as we think. TS was very clear, he will support false theories. Why should this have started and stopped with the murder theory? He never said it would. He said was very plainly and simply just that: he will support false theories. That makes anything he says up for speculation regarding its legitimacy.
Front said to not take ANYONE's words or statements as definitive proof of ANYTHING.
I think we are being fooled. I think lots more people then we think are in on It. I think It's quite cleared legally. I don't think for one second that MJ would NOT have his lawyers review and ensure everything was by the book before doing it.
Faking your death is NOT against the law UNLESS you are escaping incarceration (ie a sentence handed down by a court or impending verdict), you or your beneficiaries collect on death benefits, or you are escaping debt. Michael Jackson is none of these things. This death hoax is NOT illegal. This was clarified in early 2009 so let's please not backtrack on established knowledge.
In any case, I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that we have discovered anything that is not part of the story line. He allowed us to know he's not dead. He allowed us to know it is a hoax. That's enough truth for now, seems. The rest of what we think we know is all story line.
Yes I realize my post is a giant metaphorical contradiction. Deep.
Bec I love you and I get your point but I totally disagree with you. I do believe the 2005 trial was real. The conspiracy against Michael is real. Therefore this is his vengeance, take over. I think too different than you do, so we should agree to disagree my friend. :D
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinons, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
In 'you are not alone' Jermaine's book, he started a chapter by saying (in CAPS) 'Michael received a death threat'
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinons, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Mjj4ever777 you already KNOW my answer and that one is LOVE.Michael would never REVENGE on anyone,because this would be against HIS BELIEFS.In fact he doesn't need to REVENGE on anyone ,lol lolol/ ,it is ABSURD, :lol: to even say that word when you talk about Michael!!!! YOU know he is SIMPLY MICHAEL,the ONE and ONLY ADORABLE MICHAEL :lol:!!!
Since we are being hypothetical, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. Make that 1 cent. I don't have much. When it all comes out I believe we will all find out we have been royally had. At least to some degree everyone of us...believers and non believers. And I have loved every minute of it , be it through tears of empathy and identification with and for Michael, to the educational aspects of the hoax... which will never be a joke, because they are life skills to take with us for ever. And even the fun aspects of allowing ourselves to goof off, laugh at ourselves and with each other and be childlike. I can't shake the image of the kids w-a-y back in the '09 days when they went to the library. I think Prince held up his' choose your own adventure' book and I believe each of us have... to a degree, chosen where this adventure led us by continually challenging ourselves with what we are willing to embrace and believe as the truth. However we may have individually interpreted the clues, leads, and psychological triggers the master illusionist has fed us, it looks to me like each of us chose where we allowed ourselves to venture, partly by our own personal bent, as well as past life experiences that impacted us as truth pre death hoax, and our own individual core value systems. In truth, there has never been anything on this level done in an ARG before, and if we step back and observe ourselves, there are great life lessons here. We can come to know ourselves in a greater measure by evaluating how open we are and have been to suggestion. I am in no way negating the experiences of others here, simply just throwing into the mix that we are a great big soup mix of world wide people coming into this death hoax from different past backgrounds, and as such, each of our individual experiences will have the carry over of these elements. So, who has the absolute truth to all of this? Nobody but MJ and those who are in on it. And it seems good advice to me to enjoy it cause it is one hell of a ride. okay...I'm done
@ Applehead....LMAO at those last videos. I'm beginning to think I would have gained more understanding from watching the outside of the courthouse than the actual trial. LMAO again just thinking about it.
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinons, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Since we are being hypothetical, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. Make that 1 cent. I don't have much. When it all comes out I believe we will all find out we have been royally had. At least to some degree everyone of us...believers and non believers. And I have loved every minute of it , be it through tears of empathy and identification with and for Michael, to the educational aspects of the hoax... which will never be a joke, because they are life skills to take with us for ever. And even the fun aspects of allowing ourselves to goof off, laugh at ourselves and with each other and be childlike. I can't shake the image of the kids w-a-y back in the '09 days when they went to the library. I think Prince held up his' choose your own adventure' book and I believe each of us have... to a degree, chosen where this adventure led us by continually challenging ourselves with what we are willing to embrace and believe as the truth. However we may have individually interpreted the clues, leads, and psychological triggers the master illusionist has fed us, it looks to me like each of us chose where we allowed ourselves to venture, partly by our own personal bent, as well as past life experiences that impacted us as truth pre death hoax, and our own individual core value systems. In truth, there has never been anything on this level done in an ARG before, and if we step back and observe ourselves, there are great life lessons here. We can come to know ourselves in a greater measure by evaluating how open we are and have been to suggestion. I am in no way negating the experiences of others here, simply just throwing into the mix that we are a great big soup mix of world wide people coming into this death hoax from different past backgrounds, and as such, each of our individual experiences will have the carry over of these elements. So, who has the absolute truth to all of this? Nobody but MJ and those who are in on it. And it seems good advice to me to enjoy it cause it is one hell of a ride. okay...I'm done
@ Applehead....LMAO at those last videos. I'm beginning to think I would have gained more understanding from watching the outside of the courthouse than the actual trial. LMAO again just thinking about it.
I Love and respect all of your journeys and I LOVE all of you!!bearhug Right back at ya mjj4ever777
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Quote from: fordtocarr link=topic=20587.
[size=10ptFordtocarr ofcourse this is not a REAL TRIAL,never was!!!
Beside THE CLOWNS you forget someONE else,my friend:" THE FANS"
The same "FANS" were present at 2005 trail ,outside the COURT and it seems that noONE even noticed,lol!!!!! I will give you ONE CLUE:The girl with SKIN problems/HAIR on the LEGS :shock:.In the first video she appears starting 2:17 and in the second she is in the begining ;) !!! I promise you there is MORE,MUCH MORE,in fact there are many people from Larry Nimmer doc.that appeard in 2005 trial also.I know it's hard to accept THE TRUTH,but remember THE DIRECTOR shows only what HE WANTS,and in this case ,in 2003-2004-2005 he only showed us THE DRAMA SIDE of the story.Everything that he was done is done WITH LOVE,please remember!!!!! Human mind is very powerful thing and he knew that in THE END the TRUTH will prevail!!!![/size]
Jake Byrd at the Courthouse for Michael Jackson
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8CzsOpNzY&feature=related[/youtube]
Conrad Murray Trial - Sept. 8, 2011
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztO817TtuAc&feature=channel_video_title
[/youtube]
Both TRIALS are a CIRCUS and both have a PURPOSE,a bigger one,but this is not the MOMENT to disscuss that.We are ALL HEROES,in our own way,and this time IS OUR TIME TO SHINE 8-)!!!!I LOVE you!!!!
Dear fellows!
Have to reassure all of you, that people who was also refereed here as a "fans" from 2005 trial is NOT staged. I meet some of them personally during that unbearable period as well as Larry Nimmer, director of that documentary and find kind of insulting that theme of staged MJ trial keeps come back to the hoax web.
Please, stay REASONABLE for sake of the Man, who also reading that forum and do Not mix Revenge with real accusations.
In fact, the girl with problematic skin conditions is such a sweetwheart and I admire her courage to accept who she is beyond point of her first side appearance.
Keep the faith and be blessed - indeed, sanity is only key to all that mess and Message.
L.O.V.E.
Just wanted to say THIS: TS' absence is not quite encouraging.......I hope she/he doesn't think now that Murray is guilty. With all that evidence, one can never know....
@gina. maybe TS is incredibly busy with hoax / court or related duties as everything is coming to a cruscendo, and therefore he doesnt have time to phone home :lol:
TS has commented in the past, (or perhaps it was front, i forget) that he does read all the comments.
TS PHONE HOME......
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/crunkhitz/et-finger.jpg)
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinions, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Great questions! It's difficult to know who the REAL Michael Jackson is because we've only always seen and heard what he has wanted us to. But based on how he lived his life...things which we can point to like his charity work, his speeches, his lyrics, his messages, etc etc...it's clear, to me anyway, that a BIG part of who he is, and always has been, is 'love'....pure 'love', not the superficial-type 'love' that is rampant in our societies today.
Because I don't want to presume to know every aspect of who he 'really' is...I'm not sure whether or not 'payback' is on his list of 'reasons' for this hoax. But the very word 'payback' is interpretive...'payback' can be intentional (i.e. someone sets out to get revenge for wrongs done against them)...but it could also be the by-product of justice (without an intentional revenge motive).
Mike often talked about being Jesus-like...and yes, Jesus was all about love and forgiveness...but neither mean that 'justice' and/or 'judgement' from up above will spare 'wrong-doers' from all consequence(s).
I do believe that Mike is doing all this for love...but I also believe that IF whatever happens in this hoax, in full or in part, results in the 'payback' of some individuals...it will be a by-product of 'justice' (and long overdue).
Love sometimes has to include 'tough love' in order to teach the lesson...God, himself, is notorious for this.
With L.O.V.E. always.
JURY reached a Verdict, Friday Nov. 4th, but won't announce until Monday 7th, in Conrad Murray InVoluntary Manslaughter case. Here is part of Defense Atty. Chernoff, and Atty. for the Prosecutor, David WALGREN's last words to Jury.
Since we are being hypothetical, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. Make that 1 cent. I don't have much. When it all comes out I believe we will all find out we have been royally had. At least to some degree everyone of us...believers and non believers. And I have loved every minute of it , be it through tears of empathy and identification with and for Michael, to the educational aspects of the hoax... which will never be a joke, because they are life skills to take with us for ever. And even the fun aspects of allowing ourselves to goof off, laugh at ourselves and with each other and be childlike. I can't shake the image of the kids w-a-y back in the '09 days when they went to the library. I think Prince held up his' choose your own adventure' book and I believe each of us have... to a degree, chosen where this adventure led us by continually challenging ourselves with what we are willing to embrace and believe as the truth. However we may have individually interpreted the clues, leads, and psychological triggers the master illusionist has fed us, it looks to me like each of us chose where we allowed ourselves to venture, partly by our own personal bent, as well as past life experiences that impacted us as truth pre death hoax, and our own individual core value systems. In truth, there has never been anything on this level done in an ARG before, and if we step back and observe ourselves, there are great life lessons here. We can come to know ourselves in a greater measure by evaluating how open we are and have been to suggestion. I am in no way negating the experiences of others here, simply just throwing into the mix that we are a great big soup mix of world wide people coming into this death hoax from different past backgrounds, and as such, each of our individual experiences will have the carry over of these elements. So, who has the absolute truth to all of this? Nobody but MJ and those who are in on it. And it seems good advice to me to enjoy it cause it is one hell of a ride. okay...I'm done
Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
@Applehead: thanks for clarifying your post because I really didn't understand what happened to you to change your attitude towards me like that. You have a way of telling things that makes it... how shall I put it? a way that makes it... very categorical for the reader... You see when I see many punctuation marks, capital letters, major type font , in bold, I take it as a screaming-tone! In fact that is the message in "Internet language"! Some people are still not aware of this.... Then I sensed bit of irony in your message... especially with that question that bothered me. Anyway... we shouldn't waste our time with misunderstandings like these, which are inevitable in written communication! especially because we cannot hear our voice-tones, nor see our gestures or facial-expressions when we say certain things that in written form may seem ambiguous or mean.
You asked me again, some questions, as "a challenge", you say loll So I don't know whether you already have an answer/opinion of yourself and you just ask me just to see how I think OR whether you ask me because you really want to find out the answer to those questions...
One way to find an answer to any of your questions is the topic that I'm doing called "It's only a movie".
All those photos, videos, links and explanations are already a big source of information regarding this subject that I am afraid is not really ON-topic here. But since you asked here and since this trial is also made to look like it's a movie, I think it's OK to answer here.
I don't know , I never know if I am correct in my thinking regarding this hoax, because the "rabbit hole" goes so deep and there's always something more that you're not aware of, so you cannot give a "solution" or a correct answer unless you have all the data!! it's like trying to solve a math problem without having all the data before! the puzzle is still "in the making", we don't have all the pieces yet! so we cannot see clearly the Bigger picture!
Quote from: applehead250609 on Today at 04:48:30 AM
- If you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT??????
- Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX????
- For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this ????
I always put in front the possibility that I might be wrong on everything or at least on some parts of my deductions, suppositions, speculations! Nobody , I mean nobody! but Michael really knows the answer to all these questions. Therefore I think it's not right to even ask these questions, neither to wait for an answer from someone and to believe in it, nor to contradict with people around these questions or their answers to them. Because no one can be 100% right until Michael comes out and explains it all...
Nevertheless, because you insist on this movie-subject, I accept your "challenge" loll and I hope I can give some reasonable answers, even if maybe they are not the correct ones.
So here are the reasons I could think of until now of why Michael decided to make a movie out of this hoax...
1. VENDETTA - Revenge on the mass-media and all his enemies that worked behind his back and tried to destroy him, his image, his family and steal his catalog. Michael wants to show them that he also worked behind their back and pulled this prank for them! and at the same time he exposes them in front of the big public, thus he also punishes them all!
2. HUMANITY & PLANET protection - "Make that change"; "heal the World", "Save the Kids", "We've got 4 years to make it right or else it's irreversible"
3. PASSION - Movies, watching, making, producing movies was his ultimate dream, he also said in that Geraldo interview back in 2002. The movie industry was like an unexplored field for him... he wants to take it to another level of artistic creation.
4. AMBITION - The WILL of PERFECTION, of surpassing not only others before him, but also HIMself!! Michael is never content with himself, the title of the King of Pop is already achieved and never surpassed, he won dozens and dozens of awards, he won some other dozens of Guinness book titles, he beat all the music records of selling albums in History! What else could he do to obtain artistic satisfaction???
He has studied the greats from this Movies & entertainment business and now he wants to create something BIGGER, something never achieved before! A reality movie! that is not just a Movie, but a way of achieving many goals at a time: revenge, uplift his career, surpass himself, change humanity, expose the Illuminati, and all the aspects of this hoax that we've been investigating since June 25th, 2009.
5. Promote his FAMILY: ever since this hoax, his family members have been more popular than ever. It's somehow a Come Back of the Jackson5 + parents & sisters + children. All reunited and more loving than ever! Each one of them talented actors/artists, unique, charming and unique in their own way!
6. HELP the other artists, Destroy the Music Industry MAFIA.
7. ELVIS - What a good opportunity for them both this hoax is!! So that they can demonstrate to the entire world HOW the tabloid press, the media attention and the celebrity disadvantages can determine a BIG artist to fake his death in order to obtain the "retirement" from the entertainment industry, to obtain that deserved peace and tranquil life after they have served their public with love and devotion! otherwise it seems to be impossible! other than "playing dead", they can't obtain all that! especially if they received death-threats and they were both followed by "money sharks" who were after their catalogs and fortunes! How crazy this world is!! This has got to change once they come back!! I really hope we will witness a double-BAM!
8. The JUSTICE & HEALTH systems that literally suck pretty much in every corner of this world - think the trial-movie is made to expose all of this !!
These are the major reasons I think...
What do you think @AppleHead? What are your answers to your own questions? I challenge you back now lol
“People Should Not Be Afraid of Their Governments. …”
And I believe it is imperative to know and understand who "The Prince of Peace" is, and also to know Him..Rev. June Gatlin felt called to proclaim MJ, The Prince of Peace.
TS PHONE HOME......mj_bad/ I love it!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/crunkhitz/et-finger.jpg)
28… 71…80… 37…
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
the "N"ew, the "CHA_GE" --- if it makes you wonder
relapse back, mesh letter to number
won't be long 'til you hear that thunder……………
Once at UCLA, Senneff said Murray was “spinning…moving around, nervous, sweating, multitasking."http://gracemj.wordpress.com/category/murray-preliminary/ (http://gracemj.wordpress.com/category/murray-preliminary/)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAi3dJIJwgI[/youtube]
JonoQuoteAnd I believe it is imperative to know and understand who "The Prince of Peace" is, and also to know Him..Rev. June Gatlin felt called to proclaim MJ, The Prince of Peace.
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinions, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Great questions! It's difficult to know who the REAL Michael Jackson is because we've only always seen and heard what he has wanted us to. But based on how he lived his life...things which we can point to like his charity work, his speeches, his lyrics, his messages, etc etc...it's clear, to me anyway, that a BIG part of who he is, and always has been, is 'love'....pure 'love', not the superficial-type 'love' that is rampant in our societies today.
Because I don't want to presume to know every aspect of who he 'really' is...I'm not sure whether or not 'payback' is on his list of 'reasons' for this hoax. But the very word 'payback' is interpretive...'payback' can be intentional (i.e. someone sets out to get revenge for wrongs done against them)...but it could also be the by-product of justice (without an intentional revenge motive).
Mike often talked about being Jesus-like...and yes, Jesus was all about love and forgiveness...but neither mean that 'justice' and/or 'judgement' from up above will spare 'wrong-doers' from all consequence(s).
I do believe that Mike is doing all this for love...but I also believe that IF whatever happens in this hoax, in full or in part, results in the 'payback' of some individuals...it will be a by-product of 'justice' (and long overdue).
Love sometimes has to include 'tough love' in order to teach the lesson...God, himself, is notorious for this.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Well said Be The Change..well said, and I agree with you! This is a BIG Life lesson for humanity as a whole.
The one thing I have learned in life is that You and only you, are responsible for your own happiness! We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and what we put out into the universe. You can't lie to yourself...you can try, but the reality is you can't! If you aren't happy in your life, that is a sign that you need to "make a change", no one can do that for us. To attain Happiness and LOVE means consciously working on yourself, and for most, that is just too hard. It is a sad time when it is easier to live in fear and darkness, then it is to live in happiness and LOVE. It is even sadder when people think that they don't have a choice because they have been led so far down the "proverbial rabbit hole, that they can't even see a glimmer of "LIGHT" at the end of the tunnel... I will continue to try and inspire, wherever I can on my path.
Thanks to this eye opening journey from Michael, I have NO DOUBT that the Ultimate goal here is LOVE...it is who Michael IS, it is what I am and it is what everyone of us has the capability to be...Pure, unselfish Love....It really is a beautiful thing, just sad at what had to transpire to get the world to "take a look in the mirror and make that change"! Take back control of your life, just say NO, and practice living and just being LOVE...I have never been happier in my life and it is because I LIVE Love, knowing that I am LOVED in return...no amount of money can buy that!
God Bless you and know that I truly LOVE and appreciate you and all you do here on this forum...If we can get people to even read our posts on LOVE, then that is a start! I Love reading your posts, you are an inspiration, so thank you!!
@ CURLS - btw, loved your previous post. not the one above this, the one before. identified with much of what you wrote.
I am going to talk about the trial, it is normal in a court of justice where there is a murder trial we can see bears of stuffed animals, elephants or a pumpkin of Halloween, or a judge all the time with a big smile on his face?
All of us have seen the mistakes, but the experienced prosecutors have not been able to see, the witnesses are wrong, they are trying to hide the evidence, lie about the facts, contradictions even in the experts' statements.
Since the beginning we are listening to the family by saying that Michael had addiction problems ( helping Murray for his acquittal ?)
In my opinion Murray must be acquitted by the court hoax, that nobody died.
ooohh come here you! bearhug I love you for this^^ post! And even if I didn't add your name on the list, just know you were "always on my mind!" ;)
I am SOOOO glad that the topic of the 2005 trial being part of MJ's hoax is finally being discussed openly!!
Thank you Applehead for your bravery!
SimPattyK, you didn't have me on your list of names :lol: . I've been saying it for a long time. It's the only explanation that makes any sense for MJ's 25 year plan, and also answers Back's, Front's, and TS's posts. I think perhaps as we can so confidently see that the Murray trial is a hoax that it gives us confidence to look further back as well. I believe this is part of MJ's timing in revealing to us.
[...]
@Applehead, @Bec, @wishingstar, @Aidan_81, @MJonMind: Ooh thank God! I am so relieved you all guys think that the 2005 Trial was a hoax (at least partially!); there are a few beLIEvers on facebook who think that too... so the group seems to be getting larger and larger! that means something! We're not crazy and we're not alone!! and our eyes are wide open and looking into the good direction!
[....]
I am going to talk about the trial, it is normal in a court of justice where there is a murder trial we can see bears of stuffed animals, elephants or a pumpkin of Halloween, or a judge all the time with a big smile on his face?
All of us have seen the mistakes, but the experienced prosecutors have not been able to see, the witnesses are wrong, they are trying to hide the evidence, lie about the facts, contradictions even in the experts' statements.
Since the beginning we are listening to the family by saying that Michael had addiction problems ( helping Murray for his acquittal ?)
In my opinion Murray must be acquitted by the court hoax, that nobody died.
UH huh!! THAT"S exactly what I've been saying!!
This court is NOT normal. Those things ARE NOT in a normal court. This court cannot be real in my opinion. All these things you've stated point to hoax/movie set court...I suppose it could be a sting court too, but not real, genuine court.
And yes I agree, no one died, so no one goes to jail..and also, someone has to promote that documentary Murray has made!!
I don't know how the U.S, justice system works so I have a question:
If Murray is found guilty by a jury, can he ask for a recourse?
[.....]^^ It DOES sound crazy and far fetched indeed!!
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TSQuoteWell, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!suspicious// [...]
It DID sound like that too back in 2009 when the first beLIEvers were trying to prove that Dave Dave was actually Michael!
So no wonder that another crazy disguise like that would be again 'welcome" with negativity and repulsion. loll
I'm not saying I'm sure Murray is Michael in disguise. I'm saying that it could be possible and I beLIEve Michael could be capable of doing anything!! if Dave Dave was the coolest disguise I've ever seen, I'm sure Michael wanted to surprise us and surpass himself with another even more cool disguise!
Why not Murray??
Especially because we know that before 2005 or so , no one has heard of him!
I remember watching hoax-videos in 2009 about Murray and how people tried to look for him on the internet and other medical data bases, they did pretty much extensive research on him and they found nothing! As if he never existed before!!
Then people found out about that "white-Murray", then they found out about another "black -Murray" who is also an actor and resembles a lot to Murray!
Then they found out that Murray's hand looks whiter in some parts, as if he had vitiligo!
Then they found out that Murray dressed during the trial of 2010 exactly like he dressed during MJ's trial in 2005.
I mean come on this guy is really bizarre to say the least!
Even if he exists for real, that wouldn't be impossible for Michael to get disguised like him. Do you remember that at a certain point there were beLIEvers who noticed some height differences between one dr. Murray appearing at a certain time and another dr. Murray that appeared some other time??
I am so sorry I never really took into consideration this possibility^^ of "Murray-the disguise" only up until 1-2 months ago... Otherwise I would have collected pics and links to sustain everything I have written here above^^ Everything is just according to what I can remember about this guy so far...in these 2 hoax-years
This is the pic I found about his "vitiligo-hand"?? loll WTF??
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3323/2n0uio8.jpg)
The original pic:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6214/33d666c283627acf2861df6.jpg)
[...]I found this cute MJ and milk story:This great pic was created by Mona, a dear friend of mine from FBQuote"So Michael and I went in search of his perfect ranch. We used to sneak away by ourselves to look at ranches and see what was available.Michael Jackson, Miko Brando and I drove up to Santa Barbara, which is about 80 miles from Encino. Bill Bray also came along to drive and to protect us. Michael and Miko had been at the Cal Prep School together as schoolmates since a young age, and Miko was Michael's closest and dearest friend. Just the four of us went, with Miko driving part of the way. (Michael liked to drive his own Mercedes Benz when he could, so he drove part of the way as well).
We passed by a pasture, which was full of baby calves; it was a dairy farm and all the baby calves were nursing from the udders of their mothers. Michael was so thrilled! He was screaming with joy, so happy and laughing. He loved to watch the animals being fed. We stopped and stood on the fence and watched them. The farmer came over, and asked us, "What are you doing here?"
"Well, we're watching the calves taking milk from their mothers." I replied. "Is that okay? Do you mind?"
"No, not at all I was just curious. Nobody ever stops by." The farmer was friendly, and it was apparent that he didn't realize he was talking to Michael Jackson. So Michael started asking him a lot of questions about the gestation period of a calf. How long does it take to have a baby calf? How long before a mother no longer has to feed a baby calf? Michael really had the head of a milk farmer! He was Interested in raising animals. He asked all kinds of questions about their breeds. There were a couple of big black stud bulls there. The milk farm had hundreds of calves all sired by the stud bulls. Michael was fascinated by this and got involved in the discussion of how to create a dairy farm and how milk is pasteurized.
I want you to know that Michael was actually taught then and there by that farmer how to milk a Holstein cow: by aiming two udders into a bucket!
It was a thrill to watch him milk the cow. They tried to teach me, Miko Brando and Michael's major domo Bill Bray how to milk a cow, too, but Michael was the best. He actually managed to fill the bucket to the rim and loved doing it.
Bill Bray kept on rushing us to get back on the road. With a quick aim, Michael squirted cow's milk right into Bill's face. Poor Bill wiped off his wet face with a handkerchief as the farmer roared with laughter and Michael squealed with joy He announced he'd like to move In and become a dairy farmer.
It was really quite funny as the farmer never realized Michael was a celebrity. He was really not In tune with the world of show business, only with his pastures and his cows. Michael took full advantage of it and enjoyed being anonymous. The farmer did ask where we were from so we said Encino in the San Fernando Valley. He did not connect Michael with being the King of Pop in the musical world."http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041 (http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041)
Someone mentioned almond milk as an alternative to cow's milk which isn't meant for humans but for calves. http://www.thegrio.com/health/choosing-alternatives-to-cows-milk.php (http://www.thegrio.com/health/choosing-alternatives-to-cows-milk.php)
And here's the deposition where MJ's talks about the cows on Neverland property. I love watching it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qfBB0Rnjg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qfBB0Rnjg)
The jury has finally reached a verdict! Two hours until it's announced!WOOW! can't wait!! thanks for info! ;)
"ABC7 Murray Trial
@abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We have a verdict!!!! Read in 2 hours!
4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad"
I wonder what it is...
The jury has finally reached a verdict! Two hours until it's announced!WOOW! can't wait!! thanks for info! ;)
"ABC7 Murray Trial
@abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We have a verdict!!!! Read in 2 hours!
4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad"
I wonder what it is...
I'm soooo thrilled! :lol:
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4836/19933120451533957262019.jpg)
I can see this turning real ugly, real fast outside the court house. I just hope that people remember that no matter what's gone on...Mike would NOT want people getting violent with each other over him. That would go against everything he stood for. But tensions seem to be running on a fevered pitch out there...just hope it remains civil.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Verdict reached at 11:0111 again!
[...]Why?
OMG I am scared :'(
If he's found guilty then how can you still explain Michael is alive and an "innocent" would go to prison?Would it be the first time that an innocent went to prison?
I can't breathe pale/
If he's found guilty then how can you still explain Michael is alive a[...]By enumerating over and over all the clues/slip-ups/inconsistencies/profs that we've been investigating ever since this whole thing started back in 2009.
Sa'nebunesc! si tu esti romanca?? :shock: Forumul asta e chiar plin de romani!!I can't breathe pale/Fii linistita !
If he's found guilty then how can you still explain Michael is alive a[...]By enumerating over and over all the clues/slip-ups/inconsistencies/profs that we've been investigating ever since this whole thing started back in 2009.
Rewind... Rewind...
No matter what the verdict is, that long list of clues ^^ cannot be erased just like that!
bearhug @ SimPattyK(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0006.gif)
La fel si eu....Sa'nebunesc! si tu esti romanca?? :shock: Forumul asta e chiar plin de romani!!I can't breathe pale/Fii linistita !
ce tare!!
(http://www.argentinet.com/emot/emot4/fuma_mucho.gif)may I join you? (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Fume/0080.gif)
afraid/ Si tu ?? WOW!! Sunt mai socata de cati romani suntem decat de verdictul in sine! lolll :lol:La fel si eu....Sa'nebunesc! si tu esti romanca?? :shock: Forumul asta e chiar plin de romani!!I can't breathe pale/Fii linistita !
ce tare!!
I'm too tensed right now, can't think clear. What will happen if he's found guilty and then nothing?Girls we need to calm, relax...
The verdict will be announced at 1 pm.
I am over here in Germany.
Can anyone tell me what time it will be in Germany when the verdict will be announced?
Anyone?
Help! /white flag/
The verdict will be announced at 1 pm.
I am over here in Germany.
Can anyone tell me what time it will be in Germany when the verdict will be announced?
Anyone?
Help! /white flag/
Verdict will be announced in 55 minutes all over the world.(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7444/flyingbutterfly.gif)(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4681/artsdivers00007.gif)(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4158/butterflywz5z5i.gif)(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9448/artsdivers00009.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7444/flyingbutterfly.gif)
(http://www.argentinet.com/emot/emot4/fuma_mucho.gif)
I don't know how the U.S, justice system works so I have a question:
If Murray is found guilty by a jury, can he ask for a recourse?
Yes he can, he can appellate the sentence.
How ironic, today is the 7thWe were announced about this significant date by a TMZ article released on June 19th, 2011
Si tu esti din Romania :shock: I can't believe this :shock:I can't breathe pale/
Fii linistita !
Omer wrote this on facebook:Omer is right, Michael we want you back!!!
"It's with a heavy heart that I'm thanking you guys as we wait for "justice" but the only real justice would be to have him back"
:mrgreen:
FAKE FAKE FAKE...we knew this was a possibility, how do we really know if he will go to jail or not...it's all PART OF THE SHOW!^^ Exactly!!
Nov 29, 2011 is exactly 888 days (including end date) from June 25, 2009.Youpiiii!! Again an Elvis connection since 8 is his number!! and 888 = 3x8 = 24 again a significant number! related to MJ , Elvis & Murray too!!
FAKE FAKE FAKE...we knew this was a possibility, how do we really know if he will go to jail or not...it's all PART OF THE SHOW!^^ Exactly!!
My first impressions after the verdict:
1. Did I hear well or...?
Did anyone else hear when the lady read the verdict she said: "We the jury in the above entitled ACTION"
During MJ 2005 trial when the verdict was read, the lady said: "We the Jury in the above entitled CASE"! and not the action!!
Is this of relevance?
Are both expressions correct from a juridical point of view?
2. Then Murray really seemed ok, I mean, he cried during other not very significant days of the trial and now during the MOST significant day of the trial, when he's found guilty, he didn't cry.
3. Then I have this feeling that most of you, beLIEvers have had flashback when you saw Murray with handcuffs, just like Michael back in 2005!
4. 29th = 2+9 = 11
November 11th month
year 2011!
So here we have: 11-11-11 !!Quote from: AndreeaNov 29, 2011 is exactly 888 days (including end date) from June 25, 2009.Youpiiii!! Again an Elvis connection since 8 is his number!! and 888 = 3x8 = 24 again a significant number! related to MJ , Elvis & Murray too!!
For those who haven't seen yet this photo-montage, enjoy watching/reading!!
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2017/mjelvisarealive03.jpg)
Are we really sure Michael is coming back? Like everyone in the family keeps saying "nothing will bring him back" :cry:
This cant be fake..Michael would not send an innocent man to jail if he was alive.
He's guilty
I can't get the pages to load to read these comments, so forgive me if I post similar words.
But, I'm thinking that this is going to be a long and winding road still.
Arnie keeps talking about all these others that have to go down too.
LaToya does also.
Jermaine said today that this is just step ONE.
My writer friend Lynton Guest talks about the others that also have to go down.
The family talks about others too...
I just don't know about a BAM day..if it not just something we invented.
Really, who's to say that Michael didn't get away and has to stay away?
If there are all these others that have to fall, and they haven't even been arrested, or a case on anyone else, this could take the rest of MY life...and Michael's also.
I'm thinking if others have to fall, and this is step ONE, we have YEARS to go....
I'm exhausted...I'm getting too fat...I can't sleep...my blood pressure is up...and maybe believing is simply enough. Maybe it doesn't matter what the reasons for the hoax or when it will be over, because it's not in our hands, and maybe not Michael's either. He maybe away...safe, and others just taking down whoever, these steps have to be taken are taken.
It don't mean I give up.
It means, we have to LIVE and not live through Michael.
We can watch...wait and pray for his safety, but I can't help him. You can't help him.
But, I think I need help. LOL.
This too can be an addiction. It is mine.
But, I'm thinking that this is going to be a long and winding road still
https://twitter.com/#!/MJJ_Productions/status/133638807919669267
There is something we're missing, I just can't seem to figure out what and my brain is on overload with other stuff at the moment. A little push in the right direction TS? Remember the stroopwafels...Souza i think we are missing something,when Latoya said Micheal was in the courtroom with us,i took it that she meant physically in the courtroom,it might sound crazy but what if he is actually Murray,or maybe one of the jurors in disguise.I just cant overlook that statement by Latoya.I agree TS is really needed right know,are we any closer to level 7,TS?
i was at the chat during the trial, and the date on the paper was incorrect so they change it by pen. John who was at the chat also pointed out that the paper was not official because of that, and i think hes right, in my country even criminals run free because of these mistakes. i don't know for the US but i believe John is right.
I wanted this to share with you.
I have a husband who now thinks I'm crazier than ever, everything I say to him about MJ being alive sounds ridiculous as it comes out of my mouth, yet I believe it stronger than ever. I would not be able to convince myself he's dead no matter how hard I tried - that idea seems as ridiculous to me as him being alive does to my family. I feel it in every cell of my body. It sure is a weird feeling when events such as today's are going on around me.
I thought that Murray could appeal on that basis too and brought it up in the chat. A possible problem with that would be that the defense didnt object to the name Michael Joseph Jackson at anytime during the trial. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not, but its something to consider. However, if he could appeal for that reason couldnt he also appeal because there wasnt any evidence presented that Michael (Joe or Joesph) was actually dead in the first place. None of the witnesses that allegedly saw the "body" were shown a picture of Michael and asked to verify him as the victim. Just something to think about.i was at the chat during the trial, and the date on the paper was incorrect so they change it by pen. John who was at the chat also pointed out that the paper was not official because of that, and i think hes right, in my country even criminals run free because of these mistakes. i don't know for the US but i believe John is right.
I wanted this to share with you.
That seems logical. I don't know how it works in California law, but can Chernoff file for mistrial now with that fact and for example the wrong name (Joseph instead of Joe)? I mean if they would and it would be made public that Murray walks free because Michael is not even called Joseph, the media and non-believers will HAVE to start doubting the rest, including AR and DC.
Just wanted to know what a kangaroo court means:
"A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to hear a full statement of the exact charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right not to incriminate oneself
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to control one's own defense
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right of appeal"
FAKE FAKE FAKE...we knew this was a possibility, how do we really know if he will go to jail or not...it's all PART OF THE SHOW!^^ Exactly!!
My first impressions after the verdict:
1. Did I hear well or...?
Did anyone else hear when the lady read the verdict she said: "We the jury in the above entitled ACTION"
During MJ 2005 trial when the verdict was read, the lady said: "We the Jury in the above entitled CASE"! and not the action!!
I caught the Alleged Victum... smiley_spider
Is this of relevance?
Are both expressions correct from a juridical point of view?
2. Then Murray really seemed ok, I mean, he cried during other not very significant days of the trial and now during the MOST significant day of the trial, when he's found guilty, he didn't cry.
3. Then I have this feeling that most of you, beLIEvers have had flashback when you saw Murray with handcuffs, just like Michael back in 2005!
YEP! lolol/
4. 29th = 2+9 = 11
November 11th month
year 2011!
So here we have: 11-11-11 !!
YEP... and as someone mentioned 333 also.Quote from: AndreeaNov 29, 2011 is exactly 888 days (including end date) from June 25, 2009.Youpiiii!! Again an Elvis connection since 8 is his number!! and 888 = 3x8 = 24 again a significant number! related to MJ , Elvis & Murray too!!
For those who haven't seen yet this photo-montage, enjoy watching/reading!!
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2017/mjelvisarealive03.jpg)
I felt this was appropriate. After that Guilty verdict was read, it began to slowly seep inside me that this is for a much bigger reason than I had originally thought. As I've said, it disturbs me the way the Non-Believers celebrated this man's conviction. No justice was served today for Michael in death. "IF" Michael is "dead", he is just as accountable for his fate as Conrad Murray is. There is no time for celebration right now. Not for us believers, and not for non-believers. Listen to this song, because every word completes my thoughts.
Keep watching, this isn't over. I'm not joking anymore in chat, as comforting as it may have become for some of us. This isn't a time to laugh, but a time to think hard. For those of you leaving the hoax site, I hope you find peace within yourselves in time. For those of us still with MJ, buckle up if you haven't already. We're in a long dark tunnel now, but soon the ride will reach a BeAM of light and that will undoubtedly be our time to throw our hands back up and scream in pure bliss! But during this time, I find it extremely appropriate to pray to whatever God or Messiah your heart follows, pray for yourself, pray for me, pray ofr us all, pray for Michael and his family, and pray for the world.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_dbDO9gfO4[/youtube]
Oh Jerusalem yeah, oh Jerusalem, oh Jerusalem, oh Jerusalem...
Realizing that there's no place else to go
And there's nobody I know who can help me
Text book solutions are so improbable
Cause everybody else is just as empty
Naked as the day that I was born, I tried to hide
...behind education and philosophy
Hopeless explanation to describe a situation
I can't see because the world's on top of me
Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me
From the body of this death
Freeing me from dust, and the superficial trust
Of an enemy that seeks to take my breath
Failing to connect, cause I'm morally defect
By reason of the God inside my head
Causing me to see, only what pertains to me
Believing I'm alive when I'm still dead
Limited to earth, unable to find out my worth
Cause I... can't see past my own vanity
If I'm not included, then I just have to remove it
From my mind because it has to be in sanity
Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me
From the body of this death
Can I even factor, that I've only been an actor
In this staged interpretation of this day
Focused on the shadow, with my back turned to the light
Too intelligent to see it's me in the way
What a paradox, having God trapped in a box
All this time professing to be spiritual
Naturally pretending, that I'm actually defending
God through my facade don't need material
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem, keeping thee from perfection
Submit to truth, leave the deception of thy youth
So we could walk in the council of authority
Forget the proof, our generation so aloof
Only follow in the steps of the majority
Trust in the Lord, with all thy heart
And lay not to thine, oh an understanding in all thy ways
Acknowledge Him, and He shall correct our paths
Be not wise in thine own eyes and you can follow him
We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them
Who religion tells us that we should ignore
Perpetrating we're in covenant with Him
Exposed by the very things that we adore
We grin and shake hands, then lay ambush for the man
Who has a different point of view then us
Infuriated cause he doesn't understand
Bringing up those things we don't want to discuss
Why still do evil, we don't know how to do good
Walking on in darkness running from the light, ey
Led to believe, because we live in neighborhoods
Telling us what's going on will be alright
Oh so repressed, so convinced that I was blessed
When I played with my game of Monopoly
Oh to suggest, that my life is still a mess
Who reveal the pride I'm hiding is what's stopping me
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem keeping them from perfection
Abide in me and I in you, as the branch cannot bare
...fruit of itself except in the vine
I am the vine, ye are the branches, He's in live in me
And I in him, the same bring forth much fruit
Without me, you can do nothing
Oh Jerusalem, you're traditions have deceived you
I've chosen you, you haven't chosen me
Do whatsoever, you asking my name he may give to you
But in vain they call my name
teaching doctrines just the same
Justified among themselves
But God know with the heart, what man esteemed as smart
Is an abomination to Emmanuel
Just repent, turn from selfish motivation
So iniquity will not cause your demise
Make you a new heart and a new spirit
...for why would he die
Oh Jerusalem, please tell me why
I have no pleasure in the death of him to die
Says the Lord God where forth turn yourselves and live
It's not the talkers, but the walkers and his word
Are the only ones the Father will forgive
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem, providing you no protection
Oh Jerusalem...
thank you mjj!!!!! That means the world to me. I LOVE YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!!
And Purelove, I was thinking about you today! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR ALWAYS STAYING SO DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE!
I'm trying to read the forum and watch TII on VH1 right now. its nearly impossible to do!!!!! don't try this at home lol
Due to lack of sleep I will not post what I am thinking but I will come back after I have slept.
Due to lack of sleep I will not post what I am thinking but I will come back after I have slept.
thank you mjj!!!!! That means the world to me. I LOVE YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!!@ Beautiful Moon...see what just happened? You just made a change, and you are now officially helping to heal the world! Live, LOVE dear sister. It is up to us to keep the LOVE alive!! The "vibrations of LOVE" are resonating with the Universe! our voices are being heard!
And Purelove, I was thinking about you today! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR ALWAYS STAYING SO DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE!
I'm trying to read the forum and watch TII on VH1 right now. its nearly impossible to do!!!!! don't try this at home lol
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOLI have to say what a lovely and very inspiring post.thank you mjj4ever777,that was so beautiful.
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOL
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
People I'm BEGGING you all,DON'T GIVE UP,PLEASE !!! Not now after more than 2 years,please :( !!!
Michael is ALIVE,he is watching us and WE HAVE TO BE STRONG :) !!!!!
We are a FAMILY ,his ARMY OF LOVE 8-) !!!!
The Universe and We, the People, are watching.
We affirm and decree Divine Justice on all levels, in all dimensions, in all dominions, for all beings.
This is not a revolution. This is our evolution! THIS IS IT!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dj-g1jNZI&feature=related[/youtube]
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
I LOVE YOU Purelove!!! We've all gone BONKERS!! lolol/ LOVE it!! Or are we truly the smart ones, cause we are not "going with the flow"??? Most of the world is asleep, we are the few and far between, that have "awakened" to the "TRUTH"!
Never lose Faith Purelove...know that you are LOVED!!!!! Be LOVE...Be The "Change".
Looking4truth good post about Kangaroo Court, as it's very relevant now. The Kangaroo Court definition states everything including, obviously, that the verdict is predetermined. Meaning EVERYone involved knew the eventual verdict, hence Murray's lack of emotion. Flanagan was asked by an HLN reporter was he shocked by the verdict, and he said "no". If he was really fighting for Murray's innocence, unless he feels he did a crappy job, it was known all along. They also said "alledged" victim and "alledged" date of death when reading the verdict, hadn't heard that before. Not only didn't he stand, but he sat while being arrested. Also, watch other verdicts being read, they DO say "action" vs. case as the OJ trial is an example.
And yes, Murray has to be a key player in this hoax, just as the doctor was in 'The Illusionist'. My only issue is all of the civil suits pending and why against the people who are involved, i.e AEG/Murray? So perhaps TS can answer that? :)
Now completely off topic:
TheMoonIsDancing and Mjj4ever777. Those lyrics are amazing and so true as it speaks to this generation and state of the world specifically. "We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them" is a perfect explanation of the public and fans outside of the court house jumping in glee. This isn't a time for celebration if infact he was dead and a man, whether long enough or not, would be going to prison. Many of MJs fans do NOT understand his message and most people never will. It's a sad reality. How many leaders must we have preaching the same message do we need before we "get" it? Maybe we dont or wont because not everyone cares. Realistically speaking, nothing will stop the wars, killing, famine, abuse and evil people in general. Those people who cause these things will exist as long as we are here on THIS earth. And if a God exists only he can fix these things, Michael's influence will hopefully help awaken most.
People I'm BEGGING you all,DON'T GIVE UP,PLEASE !!! Not now after more than 2 years,please :( !!!
Michael is ALIVE,he is watching us and WE HAVE TO BE STRONG :) !!!!!
We are a FAMILY ,his ARMY OF LOVE 8-) !!!!
The Universe and We, the People, are watching.
We affirm and decree Divine Justice on all levels, in all dimensions, in all dominions, for all beings.
This is not a revolution. This is our evolution! THIS IS IT!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dj-g1jNZI&feature=related[/youtube]
did they get permission to used mj's cry video?
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
Nearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Anyway, as far as the 6-9-09 date: clear back in 2009, I wrote about the significance of the Dome Project “ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0)}.
GINAFELICIA and looking4truth had excellent comments about the Kangaroo Court {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336)}. Also, the toy elephant was still in plain sight, while the zoo verdict was being read {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00)}.
And did anyone notice that the verdict was not only on the date 11-7 (1+1+7 = 9); but the time was also 1:17? I guess this is just another one of the million ko-inki-dinks! suspicious// You can see the 1:17 time on HLN {http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog)}. You can also see it on this thread, from Suzy7 posted at 18 minutes and 15 seconds (the hour was 1 PM CA time); no doubt it took at least 15 seconds to write “Verdict is guilty” and get it posted, especially since the forum was running slow at the time—as noted by a few others on this thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261)}.
Speaking of verdict times, did we ever figure out the exact minute for the 2005 verdict? And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
I LOVE YOU Purelove!!! We've all gone BONKERS!! lolol/ LOVE it!! Or are we truly the smart ones, cause we are not "going with the flow"??? Most of the world is asleep, we are the few and far between, that have "awakened" to the "TRUTH"!
Never lose Faith Purelove...know that you are LOVED!!!!! Be LOVE...Be The "Change".
I LOVE YOU MORE mjj4ever777. bearhug According to some, we are the smart ones and according to some we are bonkers. I don't care what people say about me. I know who I am and I'm proud of being myself like the way I am.
Know that you are appreciated and loved mjj4ever777. We will be making that change all together. ;)
After reading some posts, it's like we were on the battlefield today and all of a sudden some of the 'army' began retreating back into the trenches. At one point, while watching the verdict, I literally thought that I was gonna stop breathing...I don't even know what I was feeling exactly...and it would be hard to explain. But while I can't make 'sense' of it all and have no clue what the full impact of this verdict will be... at NO point did I interpret what I was watching to mean that Mike is dead.
It's like we need a huddle or something cause people are swaying all over the place. If the trial isn't it, and it doesn't look like it is...I truly hope that our 'army' is strong enough to withstand what else may be coming our way. Everyone has GOT to take that leap of faith and beLIEve...for your own sanity you do...because until you do, you will be up, down and all over the place. Trust me, I know cause I've been there and can sincerely say that once you fully beLIEve....there's no going back 'into the trenches', no matter what happens. Why? Because you've decided.
'Mankind' has been waiting for a 'saviour' for two thousand and eleven years. When compared to infinity, which is God's 'time clock', that is but the blink of an eye. How much has 'mankind' SEEN that could cause them to doubt 'God'? Yet, 'wars' and 'violence' and 'hatred' and 'TIME' have not shaken their faith...no matter what comes.
THAT'S the type of FAITH that our 'army' needs. We're gonna fall from time to time, we're gonna get impatient with the 'mission', we may get frustrated with each other, or have 'weak' moments....but we need to keep moving forward, together. Dust off the bad and allow the good to motivate us. Mike's given us SO much to be motivated and inspired about these past 2+ years...grab hold of ALL that and let it sustain you in 'dark' moments.
Everybody say that time is borrowed,
And hangin' down your head just ain't no good
And if you dare to rise above tomorrow
Just give yourself a chance,
Fight the circumstance,
Rise and do it again
Keeping your head up to the sky!
Keeping your mind to stay alive,
Give me your wings so we can fly
Keeping your head up to the sky,
Or we can just rise up, tell me now
Give me your wings so we can fly!
I need your love
I need you now
I need your light right here today
I need you now
Wishing you all light and love tonight.
With L.O.V.E. always.
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOL
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Thank you so much mjj4eva777 for such an inspiring message, full of LOVE and HOPE for a better future. I have been away from this site for a while after my father passed away in June, but since then I have had a spiritual awakening and your words truly resonate with me. I believe Michael is God's messenger and that he is being used for a very special purpose at this particular point in Earth's history. Now is the time to choose LOVE and positive energy over FEAR and negative energy. This is the only way to raise our Vibration to one that is in harmony with the Law of LOVE. Let's all keep the faith and let LOVE be the motivation for all we do. Emerald xxxxxx
@TS: I think there are some members that desperately need you right now. I saw many losing faith as if they dropped a bottle. Some apparently walk only by sight, not by faith.
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOL
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Thank you so much mjj4eva777 for such an inspiring message, full of LOVE and HOPE for a better future. I have been away from this site for a while after my father passed away in June, but since then I have had a spiritual awakening and your words truly resonate with me. I believe Michael is God's messenger and that he is being used for a very special purpose at this particular point in Earth's history. Now is the time to choose LOVE and positive energy over FEAR and negative energy. This is the only way to raise our Vibration to one that is in harmony with the Law of LOVE. Let's all keep the faith and let LOVE be the motivation for all we do. Emerald xxxxxx
I am so sorry for your loss Emerald! I can see you now understand that sometimes in our "life" we must suffer, before we can see the truth. Everyone's journey is different here, but our goal will always be the same..Pure LOVE! I look forward to sharing more with you as we continue on this journey! I LOVE YOU..we are ONE!!! LOVE and LIGHT...You are a Blessing!
@TS: I think there are some members that desperately need you right now. I saw many losing faith as if they dropped a bottle. Some apparently walk only by sight, not by faith.
having faith in things that you dont understand and don't make sense, is the truest manifestation of faith...
keep strong everyone!
if you need to boot your faith after the verdict refresh yourself with this page.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php
And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
We might be Nuts.....but we are a whole bunch of Nuts....and together we can make that change!!!I am proud to be in such great company with all of you.
Decided to finally start an account after I’ve been reading this thread in durations throughout the trial. Just wanted to say some of the opinions are terrific and enlightening, great discussion and ideas in here.
Like many, I believe this isn’t just a hoax and movie, I think it’s a detailed and complex project, a risky one at that but a necessary one. Assuming there is a sting in place, no one knows the specifics, the media, pharmaceutical industry seem likely targets but no one knows exactly how this plan is all going to come into fruition.
I don’t think it’s time to lose any faith now. It looks like everything is moving as planned.
Regarding the verdict, this was the most plausible scenario. I think Michael can prove more of a point with Murray found guilty, also if you watch the entire trial, it was evident to me Walgren had the better case and his execution was perfect. Thus, to the public, if he was found not guilty, it would have created a lot of hatred, really stirring people’s emotions, chaos from the fans. Which is why I thought Michael wouldn’t want that in his plan. Guilty works here in the grand sceme of things. Parallels with Elvis and MJs doctor were quite identical up to here but I thought this is where the difference will occur. I don’t think Conrad will be in jail at all. Hidden maybe, the plan would not see him get any jail time and Im sure there is a plan for him.
Whats next? I think there are some dates to look forward to this month.
11/11/11 Thrive documentary comes out, perhaps starting this portal to the new level of consciousness and awareness, if you haven’t seen the preview, has MJ all over it. Realities of the world, saving the planet etc. Just searching online the so-called portal to a new level of consciousness and awareness is synonymous with 11/11/11 and 12/21/12. I think this is closer to the bigger picture and what MJ is trying to essentially do and that is enlighten us. This could be the beginning of a mass awakening of some sort. It seems like the deeper you try to look into the various layers of this, the more frustrated you get because there are so many possibilities and more questions arise. And some of the other dates discussed recently, will likely give us a direction as to what is going on and whats next.
DWTS was referenced earlier and tomorrow they will have what I believe is one choreographed dance from Cirque’s Immortal tour from the MJ dancers. Worth a check.
Dont forget that we got a clue today about the "secret" dome project AND the verdict was read on 11/7. I still find it a tad suspicious that we still havent seen the jury.
Why should we worry...his spirit will always be with us
Are we really sure Michael is coming back? Like everyone in the family keeps saying "nothing will bring him back" :cry:
It's like we need a huddle or something cause people are swaying all over the place. If the trial isn't it, and it doesn't look like it is...
I have a husband who now thinks I'm crazier than ever, everything I say to him about MJ being alive sounds ridiculous as it comes out of my mouth, yet I believe it stronger than ever. I would not be able to convince myself he's dead no matter how hard I tried - that idea seems as ridiculous to me as him being alive does to my family. I feel it in every cell of my body. It sure is a weird feeling when events such as today's are going on around me.
@scorpionchick: Murray was 'convicted' for manslaughter while he isn't even dead and you say that's justice because he intended to kill him? You don't make sense and I don't really think you get it.
Wrong name, wrong date, 32 stars, Murray sitting down while verdict was read and all the other clear BS the last couple of weeks scream hoax and Murray being a key player on Michael's side.
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
TS started this thread with a picture that references kangaroo court. Gina posted a wonderful and clear definition of kangaroo court.Just wanted to know what a kangaroo court means:
"A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to hear a full statement of the exact charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right not to incriminate oneself
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to control one's own defense
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right of appeal"
To me, it's pretty simple. This is a kangaroo court which equals to kangaroo verdict or in other words, fake court case=fake verdict. Now... whether there's a sting attached to it or not, I think only "tIme" (Michael) will tell. I know one thing this hasn't made me flinch at all.
speaking of jury, how many times did md judge want to thank them after verdict was read. like three times. even stating, please stay behind so that i can thank you personally. never have seen this before. has anyone else?
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
Onthewingsoflove, I like your thoughts on the solitary confinement, perfect cover.
And Australian MJ BeLIEver, judges actually do thank the jurors like that especially is high profile cases where they sacrifice much of their personal lives, including time. Also take into consideration the things jurors have to partake in, like looking at evidence(graphic photos etc.) which at times can be traumatic. Youtube the OJ verdict being read or others, the judges do the same.
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
family...Thank you for all the LOVE conversation going on! I don't know about you guys, but I feel totally "Nourished", by this journey. I sit here and I "let it simmer"...I am "Bathing in the "moonlight of LOVE...I feel like I have won the lottery, my spirit is soaring, I have this "energy" that is almost "electric"...to be honest...I have never felt better in my life...I am truly Happy with who I am for the first time in my life, yet in "reality", we don't own a car, we don't have cell phones, we live pay check to pay check, we even know what it is like to go hungry we should be in the deepest depths of despair, (we HAVE been there so we know what that is like!) but my husband and I have never been happier in our lives!! I have never felt richer in my life!
I had to "teach" my Husband, and my children, the importance of having LOVE in ones life, and there was a time when they looked at me strange, and thought I was "nuts", but today, they themselves can "Feel" how much better their lives are because they are taking a chance on LOVE!
If the path you are on isn't what you "thought" it would be... tell yourself you are worth it...take a leap of Faith! Just make a conscious effort to think more about LOVE and try to think a little more positive....Just DO something!!
LOVE is all that matters, but most "fool" themselves into believing that Love isn't that important...nothing could be further from the truth, or more important!
It takes time and effort to teach about LOVE. If you don't nourish that LOVE, it dies, just like any other "Living" thing!! WE ALL NEED LOVE! People usually just "settle" in life...it's like they have just given up!!
I want everyone to take a look in the mirror...Can you look at yourself and say. "wow...I feel complete I am truly happy and I know I am LOVED and important"!!
If you can't say this, and the majority of humanity can't...then you need to make a change!!! ONLY YOU can make YOUR Life happy!!!
Fix the problems in your life, reconnect with your spouse and family. Go for a walk and really look at the beauty that surrounds you!! Find your "passion" again! Forget about this "material" world we have been living in and concentrate on "FEELING" again. Nurture your soul again...whatever it may be....find that flame, and then feed the fire that is within you!!! You can't achieve anything if you don't "try".
Bottom line...if you don't have LOVE in your life...you can't live in Harmony!
Darkness or LIGHT?
Fear or LOVE?
Sadness or JOY?
We all have a choice!!!! Sending Blessings and Love to all!!
To understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Nearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
[...]I am happy and touched by your kind words which enourage me to continue! Thank you very much !
@ SIM thank you for your montages. i have never thanked you but just want to tell you that i read all of them. love your facebook too. (though i dont agree with all of the connections, there are many that i do) i admire your hard work and gracious nature to share your findings. THANK YOU!
I have so enjoyed all the beautiful posts! Imagine what other person besides Michael would even think to heal the planet and bring back love for real, starting a chain reaction with each of us involved. These 2 years I have read so many quotes from MJ, stories about his actions, learning the goal/purposes of this hoax from Front/TS that leave me overwhelmed with LOVE for, and joy and wonder at the beauty of the man and his message. There truly is a much bigger picture here, that will be well worth the wait to see MJ's plan fulfilled completely--God's plan!
I watched all the verdict, and was quite shocked at "Guilty!" but either result doesn't change my beLIEving status. MJ's the writer, director of this story/movie and we should expect the unexpected. Whatever the "solitary confinement" will end up being remains to be seen. Great news about Jermaine and LaToya saying Michael was in the courtroom with them all. I love these spiritualized statements that can be taken 2 ways. I'm sure all the way to Dec. 21, 2012 there will continue to be fresh news, unexpected twists, educational articles, hoax-related videos, that Michael will steer us to, perhaps there will be more of the 10 MJ projects we were promised.
Emeraldcity, I’m so sorry to hear about your father. May God comfort you.
TS, you kinda scared me a bit with "end". errrr But I'm hoping you're going to stay with us till at least BAM.QuoteNearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Yes, the whole trial was not normal, and Murray is not normal--he's an enigma.
michael-jackson/
Applehead, you bring up something that's been on my mind with no proof. Remember the 32 star seal in that courtroom bdlg. on floor 9 was where MJ's trial and OJ's was, with a group shot. (I know someone also saw them zooming in on a courtseal pic on a stand.) I keep thinking OJ's and MJ's 2005 were both staged, perhaps for publicity, for news drama. Could MJ's death hoax be part of something much bigger organized by some greater higher power--the only ones that seem smart, wealthy, powerful enough are God, or the devil through evil entities such as TPTB. It just seems the ripples of the MJ rock thrown in the water are ever widening. It connects to the numerology everywhere such as common death dates, thousands of connections in so many movies that are staggering. Or are we simply being made aware here (2 years worth) and tapping into knowledge of streams of connections all throughout history and our universe, because there is one God creating every coincidence and detail. We are seeing more BIG picture than before, thanks to Michael!
Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything
is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality. ~ Michael Ellner
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase" (Daniel:12:4).
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
You are without, the bravest & most honest member I have ever read MJ_forever.......words will never be enough to thank you for that open-ness you shared. May you be blessed all your days and peace be with you abundantly now and forever. You are indeed a blessing.......for what you just did will help heal others, no doubt.....it gives me strength, hope and encouragement. Thank you. I love you!
bearhug
Blessings Always
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
AMAZING! Just amazing... You brought tears to my eyes...There truly is something DIVIN about forgiveness.... Beautiful!
I am going to share your story with my family. Thank you so much for opening your heart to us like this!
Much LOVE bearhug
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
MJ_ForeverandAlways OMG I have no words :cry:,I don't know what to say really,I'm in tears :cry: :cry: :cry:!!!! You are so BRAVE ,GOD bless you!!! Thank you for sharing a PIECE FROM YOUR LIFE.
I feel SO BLESSED,to know and have such a beautiful friends here on this forum,thank you for ALL from the bottom of my HEART !!!! Michael's song MAN IN THE MIRROR and this performance of his from Dangerous rehearsals doesn't need more words.His performance is PERFECTION,pure and simple,is LOVE,everything this PLANET needs to start HEALING!!!!
Again I LOVE YOU all,thank you for everything!!!
Michael Jackson - Man In The Mirror Dangerous Tour Rehearsals 1992 - Restored - Tape 2 - HD
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dn9-FNQsm8&feature=feedf[/youtube]
I am jumping in, my sons are telling me that I am going senile, with my old age.. I am only 52yrs old give me a break lolol/. They tell me to grow up, Michael is dead, when are you going to realize that.. I need therapy lolol/, Me need therapy, I can do therapy on myself lolol/ . My whole family are trying to discourage me to close the book on Michael, they tell me now for 2 yrs you have spend on Michael, it is time to grieve for him, and let him rest in peace.. I told them all, I will never give up hope, I know deep down he is alive, and he will come back , and once he does, you will be the losers, not me lolol/. I guess they do not understand why Michael hoaxed his death like we do.. I just want to say I love all of you guys I have passed 2 wonderful years, and more to come in this forum, and there is no way in hell I will give up on Michael, never.... If I have to, I will go find him myself.. lolol/ Where would I start?? God bless you all, with all my affection..
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
[....]
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9838/mj2005trial003.jpg)
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1430/mj2005trial005.jpg)
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
[....]
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9838/mj2005trial003.jpg)
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1430/mj2005trial005.jpg)
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1718/murraymjhandcuffs.jpg)
Timeline: The Jackson case
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3379363.stm
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
People are dying every were even if is FULL of HOSPITALS and FULL of DOCTORS,
Injustice is every were even if is FULL of LAWYERS and TRIBUNALS,
REAL KNOWLEDGE is foreign to us even if is FULL of SCHOOLS, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES,
We have not REAL information,just gossip :x ,even if is FULL of REPORTERS,CHANNEL TELEVISION and NEWSPAPERS,
People are going loosing spirituality and faith ,even if is FULL of PRIESTS and CHURCHES.
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase" (Daniel:12:4).
@applehead250609: thank you for writing what you wrote. I really appreciate it!
I also hope there won't be any misunderstandings like that between us. I like you too much, you're a clever girl and you post wonderful things, most of the times our posts show us how much we think alike! so I don't see why we won't be able to get along very well.
Much love to you!
blessings
This video is special for you,it clearly say MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,even on the PAPERS!!!! Michael is doing V sign when he is coming out from the arrest.
If people didn't knew now it's perfect time to say this :
That BIG WHITE AIRPLANE is MICHAEL's airplane,lol !!!!!!
Well -well. See! LOL that Murray will be locked up away from other prisoners. lolol/
I refuse to watch any TV coverage. When I want to catch up, I come here. I can't even go to Lipstick Alley and other boards - because those people just don't get it. Great points made by a lot of you. Sadly, there are a few laggards that are still trying to figure out of MJ is alive or not for God sakes. 'What Will It Take?' For those ones even if MJ came back, they'd need a dna test.
DOC Murray was acting like the character in “To Kill a Mockingbird” = MJ. He represents MJ and all other black mean that were falsely accused and the hundreds that were hung from trees. No one knows if that is truly a real person’s face. Let’s not forget “Ghosts.” MJ played the Mayor and no one knew it until………………………….. I say this to say that the pics we have seen of Murray were planted, and he could be made up so that MJ can also be made up with the same face. MJ is an expert now on make-up and masks compared to when he did Ghosts.
Remember the young lady that was with him on the beach is the same one (actress) that was with Blanket and them last summer in so-called Hawaii (Wonderland)? LOL! So in other words, this man – DOC Murray was probably made up – and at times it is MJ himself. Just because we’re shown pics of Murray walking down the street doesn’t means that it was happening in real time. Most of the video we got of Murray was taken by NPG/TMZ. They are the only ones that can swear by dates and times – and they can be manipulated.
This means that MJ could have been made up to look like Murray and was seen walking around wearing stilts – and especially that day that he was walking – and the way he was swinging his arms reminded some of MJ. Does anyone remember the video of Murray walking and swinging his arms just like MJ used to do? I knew then that if that wasn’t MJ in stilts. Not only that though, but with certain cameras and shots, one can surely make the person captured appear to be taller – no?
MJ also sang about DOC Murray in his Moonwalker Smooth Criminal video and song. What are the odds? One should read up on Serenitys_Dream take about this fact.
I love the below video. When MJ jumped on that SUV, I was like – you go boy. He seemed very strong. So when I want him to touch my heart I watch it. The Nancy Graces of the world hated him for this. Many folks cracked on him for doing this. Too bad! MJ knew he was innocent – and I truly believe God and/or his Angel informed him that he was not going to be found guilty. These rabid and evil haters wanted to lock him up, thrown away the key and to steal his fortune to include Neverland that is rumored to have oil on premises.
Let me give one of my insights right here. MJ could care less about material goods in the long run. He knows, like I hope we all do that – we can’t take them with us when we pass on. The thing is many of us won’t be passing on thru death but thru Ascension. There it’ll be the same thing. No materialism. No money. No this and no that will be in the 5th World – 5th Dimension. MICHAEL JACKSON COULD CARE LESS ABOUT MATERIAL GOODS. He knows what is up. He has already given up all of his worldly goods in his mind because HE THINKS MULTIDEMISIONALLY. He doesn’t’ think like most human beings. He already knows the truth as his children and loved ones know the truth. Paris - tweeting about 11/11 Prince - Avatar = Alien on Twitter page. Omer - one word in CAPS = ASCENSION. Donte - Tumblr page (My God) & Diana wearing a (Shimmering - word used by writer) Cosmic gown that looked like two galaxies colliding at a recent concert. Why who told her to wear that I wonder? Who did she ask to sew it up for her? LOL! Pretty significant to me. Pretty telling. Pretty interesting. Pretty spot on - and on and on. No coincidences.
I figured that MJ had gathered them all (different times I’m sure) to include, Berry Gordy, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson (Motown Family - he loves very much) - and a few others that spoke at his Memorial. MJ paid for David Ruffin's and Marvin Gaye's funerals. He's met them at nine years old. I remember Eddie Kendrick (Temptations) once wrote about how Michael used to ask him questions, and one day he was playing something on the piano - and then he said Mike was like - "oh I see, move over." Eddie said MJ knew what came next and just took over. He said MJ was super quick when it came to things like that. He just knew. It was like he didn't have to study. I think he is an Old Soul. Many of the Motown people referred to him as such. He was always a knower. He had SWAG too at ten years old to see the way he was macking on Diana back then. LOL! He had more swag than Jackie did back then.
This is another reason I used to and sort of still shake my head at some people (and I don’t mean only on here) when they made out like the Jacksons were going after MJ’s fortune and that is all they wanted. Hello. Wake up! The Jacksons also know what is up – and that there is no materialism in the 5th world. Heck, please read Dr. Stankov’s book The Cosmic Laws of Creation and Destruction – and you’ll learn that the hell planet B (remaining planet after the spilt) will be hell on earth in more ways than one. No communication folks. No phones. No internet. No TVs. No infrastructure. The density of the remaining planer B won’t be able to supply such things because the remaining earth grid will change and so on. So what will even left for the ones remaining on the catastrophic earth? Nothing, but evil and further decay and debasement. People killing and eating each other to survive and so on. Surely, some don’t want to read such things – but you must wake up and take off those rose colored glasses. Those days are over. This is what Michael wanted us to learn. He wants us to wake up, be alert and aware and choose wisely. Paradise or hell (like all religious books inferred when speaking about Heaven and hell).
I think he is an Ascended Human Master (even if only in spirit) – and he will be in the first group of AHMs to come before humanity to explains to us what is up and what was up for the last umpteen thousand years. He is going to live up to his calling – no question – and he’ll help to guide us to the light. We’ll see him again. Give him time. Wow – if one were to believe Stankov – the MOON WAS TAKEN OVER BY THE FORCES OF LIGHT TWO YEARS AGO. Say what?!!!!!!!! Hmmmmmmm. MJ had to have a reason to have called his book Moonwalker. You been walking on the moon MJ? Omer/Obee sung in Red Nikes – “No one is close to him. He’s on another planet.” I’m open to believing in anything that sounds true to me – although I’m not saying that I believe everything. I just store it in my computer brain and pull it back up for reference/fact/truth or speculation as needed. I could also add wonderment, supposition and a bunch of more adjectives. All I know is that I fell in love with MJ when he was 9 years old because of his angel voice and his charm. I’ve prayed a lot lately that he is still in love with God – and it seems that all my dreams are still true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNyiFz9_-OY
P.S. – I love the below piece – and the excerpts below stand out and remind me of what MJ has always tried to do and that was to wake and guide us to the LIGHT. INFORMATION = LIGHT. LIGHT = TRUTH. TRUTH = GOD. GOD = LOVE.
FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real. That’s what this trial and MJ’S in 2005 was ALL about. It was incredulous that those people/clowns brought such falsified evidence up against MJ and made it appear real. We knew it could be done, but the evil minds that ensured they did it were just…………….
I remember Donte posted something along the lines that we should not hate the ones that commit evil. (Of course, I’ve known that all along, but it is so refreshing to see the young ones MJ’s relatives – lol – they may be good old Star Seeds) say as much. He said that - one should just be glad that one’s not like that. And while it sounds nice to say that we should love everyone, no one deserves our love unconditionally on 3-D earth. We have been too busy learning the lesson that we need to love and forgive ourselves unconditionally before that can be afforded anyone else, and so be it and “Let it Be”, it’ll be par for the course in 5-D.
Below is a great piece by an Apache Shaman from the 1920s. The below quotes from Part II could easily be applied to Michael.
"If a man could make the right choices," he said, "then he could significantly alter the course of the possible future. No man, then, should feel insignificant, for it only takes one man to alter the consciousness of mankind through the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things. In essence, one thought influences another, then another, until the thought is made manifest throughout all of Creation. It is the same thought, the same force, that causes an entire flock of birds to change course, as the flock then has one mind."
Grandfather then spoke. "Who are these people; who is this boy? What did they work for and what were their hopes, dreams and visions? Did they just work physically or did they work for the things beyond the flesh, for a grander purpose? Certainly they affected the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things, but did they really work to the best of their ability to make things better for the future of their grandchildren, or did they do nothing other than to perpetuate the myth of society? Were they happy, joyous and filled with spiritual rapture, or did they just lead lives of labour and mediocrity? And did this boy live close to the Earth and the Creator, or did he just give up his youth, his sense of adventure, to toil, as did his parents and their parents before them? This boy was exactly your age, and I suspect he had hopes and dreams much like yours. But this is his legacy, lying in a forgotten grave."
"But, Grandfather," I said, "isn't it enough just to be happy and live your life fully?
After a long moment of silence, Grandfather answered. "It is not enough that man be just happy in the flesh, but he must also be happy and joyous in spirit. For without spiritual happiness and rapture, life is shallow. Without seeking the things of the Spirit, life is half lived and empty. And by spiritual life I do not mean just setting aside one hour of one day of one week for worship, but to seek the things of the spirit every moment of every day. I ask you, then: What did these people do to seek spiritual enlightenment and rapture? Did they just give in to a life that was little more than work? They were given a choice every day of their lives-as you will be given a choice to seek the rapture of the Spirit or to resign yourselves to a life of meaningless work. The end result is always the same: forgotten graves and forgotten dreams of forgotten people. It is not important that anyone notice or remember, but that you work to touch God and affect in a positive way the consciousness of the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things, thus bringing the consciousness of man closer to the Creator."
http://www.crawford2000.co.uk/prophecies-apache-indian-hopi-2012.htm
People are dying every were even if is FULL of HOSPITALS and FULL of DOCTORS,
Injustice is every were even if is FULL of LAWYERS and TRIBUNALS,
REAL KNOWLEDGE is foreign to us even if is FULL of SCHOOLS, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES,
We have not REAL information,just gossip :x ,even if is FULL of REPORTERS,CHANNEL TELEVISION and NEWSPAPERS,
People are going loosing spirituality and faith ,even if is FULL of PRIESTS and CHURCHES.
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase" (Daniel:12:4).
100% agreed
just on a side note, today i was at the hospital and in 10 minutes 3 funeral cars were leaving the hospital. it was very difficult to watch, so many people die in that hospital, even if it's one the best in the country :(
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
So you say, Michael was really a drug addict. Murray is with the evil side who had been trying to kill Michael and he was trying to kill Michael for real fueling him with drugs but Michael found out about the plan and made him fall into his own trap and therefore Murray is in jail now. And also you say that, Murray's speech on youtube which is exactly like Michael's is just a coincidence. Sorry Scorpion but this means that you missed what a LONG TERM, perfect plan this is! Michael started to give out clues about this hoax at least 20 years ago. It looks like you didn't get any of them and therefore you think Murray is a real killer and Michael arranged a plan in a hurry to get him. You need to start thinking BIGGER and stop thinking Michael is a fragile drug addict. There is so much more than you can imagine. And this is NOT such a simple plan which was decided in a short term. You're missing the important points of the hoax.
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Looking4truth good post about Kangaroo Court, as it's very relevant now. The Kangaroo Court definition states everything including, obviously, that the verdict is predetermined. Meaning EVERYone involved knew the eventual verdict, hence Murray's lack of emotion. Flanagan was asked by an HLN reporter was he shocked by the verdict, and he said "no". If he was really fighting for Murray's innocence, unless he feels he did a crappy job, it was known all along. They also said "alleged" victim and "alleged" date of death when reading the verdict, hadn't heard that before. Not only didn't he stand, but he sat while being arrested. Also, watch other verdicts being read, they DO say "action" vs. case as the OJ trial is an example.
And yes, Murray has to be a key player in this hoax, just as the doctor was in 'The Illusionist'. My only issue is all of the civil suits pending and why against the people who are involved, i.e AEG/Murray? So perhaps TS can answer that? :)
Nearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Anyway, as far as the 6-9-09 date: clear back in 2009, I wrote about the significance of the Dome Project “ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0)}.
GINAFELICIA and looking4truth had excellent comments about the Kangaroo Court {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336)}. Also, the toy elephant was still in plain sight, while the zoo verdict was being read {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00)}.
And did anyone notice that the verdict was not only on the date 11-7 (1+1+7 = 9); but the time was also 1:17? I guess this is just another one of the million ko-inki-dinks! suspicious// You can see the 1:17 time on HLN {http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog)}. You can also see it on this thread, from Suzy7 posted at 18 minutes and 15 seconds (the hour was 1 PM CA time); no doubt it took at least 15 seconds to write “Verdict is guilty” and get it posted, especially since the forum was running slow at the time—as noted by a few others on this thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261)}.
Speaking of verdict times, did we ever figure out the exact minute for the 2005 verdict? And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
Looking4truth, good points again, but not everyone in court has to be in direct knowledge of their participation in the hoax. Perhaps they know something but not everything. They allegedly had a privacy clause in place BEFORE the gag order for a reason. This was mentioned on HLN by an attorney who stated -to paraphrase- "something must have been put in place beforehand that we (media) had no knowledge of, which was 'violated' and in turn caused the placement of a gag order." If there was a contract that had to have been signed by people participating, then what they 'know' shouldn't be revealed; probably not now or ever if they are still under a contract that was unknown. I also dont think too many people "in the know" directly, is a good thing.
And the TMZ article? Hmm...
MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13.
21/3 =777
But he referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?
There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!
The DA did not prove his theory beyond a reasonable doubt. The IMPACT will be great if this jury finds him Guilty. It will be a travesty that the jury failed at taking it all in. If they find him Not Guilty then the system worked. This part of the hoax in my opinion is not scripted for the jury. This is a test of all tests and depending on how it turns out there will be lessons taught regardless of which verdict.
The list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.
Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:
It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.
The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.
A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.First the Kangaroo Court by it's definition says it's a sham legal proceeding or court.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
right to control one's own defense e.g. selecting one's own defense counsel
right to hear a full and precise statement of the charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right not to incriminate oneself
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality, prejudice or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right to have no interference or undue influence made by external agencies e.g. political or military leaders
right of appeal against conviction
1 : a trick that deludes : hoax <feared that the deal was a sham>The basis for the sham used in Murray's trial was the hoax that MJ is dead and Murray did it.
2 : cheap falseness : hypocrisy <saw through the hollowness, the sham, the silliness of the empty pageant — Oscar Wilde>
3 : an ornamental covering for a pillow
4 : an imitation or counterfeit purporting to be genuine
5 : a person who shams
Examples of SHAM
He claims that the trial was a sham.
Their marriage was a sham.
Many people believed he could help them, but I knew he was a sham.
She exposed their sham and hypocrisy.
Various techniques are used, by any set of groups, and aimed to influence a target audience's value systems, belief systems, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
The U.S. Department of Defense defines psychological warfare as:
"The planned use of propaganda and other psychological actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior of hostile foreign groups in such a way as to support the achievement of national objectives."
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself or one's group.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda is often biased, with facts selectively presented (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, or other type of agenda.
Social psychologyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control
The field of Social Psychology includes the study of persuasion. Social psychologists can be sociologists or psychologists. The field includes many theories and approaches to understanding persuasion. For example, communication theory points out that people can be persuaded by the communicator's credibility, expertise, trustworthiness, and attractiveness. The elaboration likelihood model as well as heuristic models of persuasion suggest that a number of factors (e.g., the degree of interest of the recipient of the communication), influence the degree to which people allow superficial factors to persuade them. Nobel Prize winning psychologist Herbert Simon won the Nobel prize for his theory that people are cognitive misers. That is, in a society of mass information people are forced to make decisions quickly and often superficially, as opposed to logically.
Social cognitive theories suggest that people have inherent biases in the way they perceive the world and these biases can be used to manipulate them. For example, people tend to believe that people's misfortune (e.g., poverty) is a result of the person and downplay external factors (e.g., being born into poverty). This bias is referred to as the Fundamental Attribution Error. The self-fulfilling prophecy relates to people's tendencies to stick with their original theories even when evidence proves their theories are incorrect. This tendency is sometimes referred to as confirmation bias (see list of cognitive biases). Propaganda frequently plays upon people's existing biases to achieve its end. For example, the illusion of control, refers to people's seemingly innate desire to believe they can and should control their lives. Propagandists frequently argue their point by claiming that the other side is attempting to take away your control.
Role theory is frequently used to identify an idea as appropriate because it is associated with a role. For example, the public relations firm Leo Burnett Worldwide used the Marlboro Man to persuade males that Marlboro cigarettes were a part of being a cool, risk-taking, cowboy rebel who was fearless in the face of threats of cancer. The campaign quadrupled sales of their cigarettes. Of course, smoking has nothing to do with being a cowboy or a rebel. This is a fantasy but the campaign's success is consistent with the tenets of role theory. In fact, the three actors who played the Marlboro man died of lung cancer.
Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, mind abuse, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual "systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated".[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
New King James Version (NKJV)
Daniel 12
Prophecy of the End Time
1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.
Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.
I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?
“Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality.” ~ Michael Ellner
This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax. As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.
If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’
This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans. The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.
I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.
“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about
I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…
…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…
…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”
Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:
Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’
“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”
Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.
As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)
I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) - It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.
But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!
BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!
Mjj4ever777: I know I don’t post very often but I read your posts as well and I appreciate them very much! I love ya bunches! *hugs*
MJ_ForeverandAlways: That was simply beautiful! I am so moved by your story! God bless you!
Sorry for such a long and late post. o_o; It took me a while to read everything on this thread.
Im_convincedmjalive: Woah! i just noticed your post! I must read it! I could not help but notice very interesting points that you have presented! I will read it later though. I'm a bit sleepy right now. It's 2am here (U.S. central time) @_@
Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?
In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?
So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.
Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?
In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?
So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.
Moonwalk: by Michael jackson/ Just Kids With A Dream
"I've always wanted to be able to tell stories, you know, stories that came from my soul. I'd like to sit by a fire and tell people stories make them see pictures, make them cry and laugh, take them anywhere emotionally with something as deceptively simple as words. I'd like to tell tales to move their souls and transform them. I've always wanted to be able to do that. Imagine how the great writers must feel,knowing they have that power.I sometimes feel I could do it.It's something I'd like to develop.In away,somewriting uses the same skills,creates the emotional highs and lows,but the story is a sketch.It's
quicksilver.There are very few books written on the art of storyttelling, how to grip listeners,how to get a group of people together and amuse them.No costumes, no makeup, no nothing, just you and your voice, and your powerful ability to take them anywhere, to transform their lives, if only for minutes.As I begin to tell my story, I want to repeat what I usually say people when they ask me about my earliest days with the Jackson 5: I was so little when we began to work on our music that I really don't remember much about it.Most people have the luxury of careers that start when they're old enough to know exactly what they're doing and why, but, of course, that wasn't true of me."
http://www.fanpop.com/spots/michael-jackson/articles/117794/title/moonwalk-michael-jackson-just-kids-with-dream (http://www.fanpop.com/spots/michael-jackson/articles/117794/title/moonwalk-michael-jackson-just-kids-with-dream)
Haven't done this in a long time.....
the case number given by the court clerk: FA073164
FA = 7
also 7+3+1+6+4= 21 (7+7+7)
so....we have 7 777
also just for fun, I put in the letters SPH...those are the letters you take out of Joseph to make Joe:
SPH= 43 = (4+3=7) it also equals the word: false
Just a curious thing........
Blessings
May be this is off topic now.....
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.
I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?
Because as Curls said, he did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
involuntary manslaughter
The act of unlawfully killing another human being unintentionally.
Most unintentional killings are not murder but involuntary manslaughter. The absence of the element of intent is the key distinguishing factor between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or while committing an act that is unlawful but not felonious.
Many states do not define involuntary manslaughter, or define it vaguely in common-law terms. Some jurisdictions describe the amount of Negligence necessary to constitute manslaughter with terms such as criminal negligence, gross negligence, and culpable negligence. The only certainty that can be attached to these terms is that they require more than the ordinary negligence standard in a civil case. With this approach the state does not have to prove that the defendant was aware of the risk.
Other jurisdictions apply more subjective tests, such as "reckless" or "wanton," to describe the amount of negligence needed to constitute involuntary manslaughter. In this approach the defendant must have personally appreciated a risk and then chosen to take it anyway.
There are two types of involuntary manslaughter statutes: criminally negligent manslaughter and unlawful act manslaughter. Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs when death results from a high degree of negligence or recklessness. Modern criminal codes generally require a consciousness of risk and under some codes the absence of this element makes the offense a less serious Homicide.
An omission to act or a failure to perform a duty constitutes criminally negligent manslaughter. The existence of the duty is essential. Since the law does not recognize that an ordinary person has a duty to aid or rescue another in distress, a death resulting from an ordinary person's failure to act is not manslaughter. On the other hand, an omission by someone who has a duty, such as a failure to attempt to save a drowning person by a lifeguard, might constitute involuntary manslaughter.
In many jurisdictions death that results from the operation of a vehicle in a criminally negligent manner is punishable as a separate offense. Usually it is considered a less severe offense than involuntary manslaughter. These jurisdictions usually call the offense reckless homicide, negligent homicide, or vehicular homicide. One reason for this lesser offense is the reluctance of juries to convict automobile drivers of manslaughter.
Unlawful act manslaughter occurs when someone causes a death while committing or attempting to commit an unlawful act, usually a misdemeanor. Some states distinguish between conduct that is malum in se (bad in itself) and conduct that is malum prohibitum (bad because it is prohibited by law). Conduct that is malum in se is based on common-law definitions of crime; for example, an Assault and Battery could be classified as malum in se. Acts that are made illegal by legislation—for example, reckless driving—are malum prohibitum. In states that use this distinction, an act must be malum in se to constitute manslaughter. If an act is malum prohibitum, it is not manslaughter unless the person who committed it could have foreseen that death would be a direct result of the act.
In other states this distinction is not made. If death results from an unlawful act, the person who committed the act may be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter even if the act was malum prohibitum. Courts will uphold unlawful act manslaughter where the statute was intended to prevent injury to another person.
Source: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/involuntary+manslaughter
“Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality.” ~ Michael Ellner
This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax. As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.
If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’
This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans. The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.
I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.
“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about
I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…
…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…
…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”
Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:
Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’
“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”
Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.
As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)
I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) - It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.
But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!
BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!
I posted a pdf file of the 'jury instructions' a few pages back but I'm not sure if people actually read them. Based on those instructions, I honestly cannot see how this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' of involuntary manslaughter. I may be missing something entirely or maybe misinterpreting the instructions (specifically the definition(s) under the 'Charged Crime' section)....but based on THOSE instructions/definitions, IMO the jury came up with the 'right' verdict (ANY jury that would've followed THOSE instructions in this case, would've and should've found any DOCTOR 'guilty' of involuntary manslaughter...regardless of age, sex, nationality, etc).
Some are getting 'caught up' on the 'fatal dose' issue...but again, the instructions are VERY clear in that even IF MJ administered the 'fatal dose' himself, or some other person came in and injected MJ with it, Murray CAN still be guilty IF he should have been able to 'foresee' the possibility of this happening. Based on Murray's own statement(s), he said he knew Mike 'liked to push it', he also knew there were others in the house, and he also knew that the room was littered with drugs. So the 'fatal dose' factor is a non-issue with a charge of involuntary manslaughter....IF he was being charged with murder, then the 'reasonable doubt' as to who administered the fatal dose would've and should've come into play....but he was not charged with that crime. Again, the instructions are VERY clear on this issue.
Like others, I tend to think that the DA is in on it (even if just Walgren) based on the 'odd' things that were said and done in court. But this 'script' was SO rock-solid for a guilty verdict (with the added bonus of a seemingly incompetant defense team)...that it probably wouldn't even have been necessary to have the DA in on it in order to ensure a guilty verdict. Based on what was presented in court (i.e. the 17 deviations from the standard of care, which were in many instances extreme deviations) the ONLY way IMO that this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' is if they either didn't understand the instructions OR they intentionally went against them.
Which takes us to the part in the instructions where the judge makes it VERY clear to the jury what they are 'allowed' to consider in their deliberations and what they're not...and the ONLY things they are to consider is ONLY what has been presented in court. It's 'easy' for us to notice discrepancies, inconsistencies, and/or outright 'fake' evidence...but we SEE everything through 'hoax-eyes'. It's hard to unring a bell once it's been rung...we have been awakened to all of the BS. Given the fact that 99% of the world thinks Mike is dead...odds are that all, or at least most, of the jury did too. But even IF they noticed that something wasn't quite right (and again, this would be difficult or 99% of the world wouldn't think Mike is dead)...but even IF they decided, for example, that the autopsy photo didn't look 'quite right' or any other 'evidence' presented in court for that matter....under THE LAW they are NOT allowed to look further into it on their own. The instructions, again, are VERY clear on this and we've discussed this very fact in this thread. The jury would've had to intentionally violate the instructions (the law) in order to research the 'oddities'....and IF they came back with a not guilty verdict based on their OWN research, the case is an automatic mistrial. It's a catch-22...in order to find the truth, they would've had to break the law....in breaking the law, the 'system' deems their 'truth' irrelevant.
And THAT, in itself, should shed light on one of the major flaws in the judicial system where juries are involved.
This is all just my opinion of course, but what the jury's verdict tells me is that they followed the law of the 'system' in making their decision....a 'system' that greatly limits a jury's ability to 'think for themselves'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
There may be more than one cause of death. An act or a failure to perform a legal duty causes the death only if it is a substantial factor in causing the death. A substantial factor is more than a trivial or remote factor. However, it does not have to be the only factor that causes the death.
To relieve a defendant of criminal liability, an intervening cause must be an unforeseeable and extraordinary occurence. A defendant remains criminally liable for the death if either the possible consequence might reasonably have been contemplated or the defendant should have foreseen the possibility of harm of the kind that could result from his or her act.
The failure of the alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson or another person to use reasonable care may have contributed to the death. However, if the defendant's act or the defendant's failure to perform a legal duty was a substantial factor causing the death, then the defendant is legally responsible for the death even though Michael Joseph Jackson or another person may have failed to use reasonable care.
If you have a reasonable doubt whether the defendant's act or failure to perform a legal duty caused the death, you must find him not guilty.
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
BeTheChange, great post about the jury instructions regarding involuntary manslaughter - just what I've been trying to say, but you put it so well. Thanks!
Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting? ;)
Dear MJ family,
I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!
What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!
I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting? ;)
No, I've said for a year now I don't believe there is an FBI sting going on... the only set up for a sting I see is a sting against the media, the general public, and MJ's own fans. The Fan sting I started talking about when the Michael album came out with it's "fake" lyrics.
FAIME,FORTUNE,there were just ILLUSIONS
Dear MJ family,
I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!
What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!
I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!
Hey Do!!!
It's great to see you....I had always enjoyed reading your posts. I am glad to know you are still around and reading...lots to read for sure, lol. You are too sweet with your kind words.........what a bleepin' job interview process, lol!!!!!! :lol: But you do make an excellent point....the folks here are amazingly faithful to Michael and I think really do understand him well. Like Michael says....learn from the best ;) Thanks again......and great to see you!
Blessings!
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!"Thank for this info ^^ @StrangerInCalifornia
MICHAEL ~ leading Actor in DISGUISE
~ Disguise-episode no. 4 ~
MASK: The Vulnerable/Sick/Cripple Celebrity
Game-time: the sharks underestimate the "cripple-freaky/wacko" guy ;)
Scope: surprise/shock-effect & controversy
:lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/2073/mjcrippledisguise.jpg)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/514/mjhoueleg.jpg)
I was inspired by MagicalXcapism's video when I posted this. I always LOVEd this YouTube channel! brilliant, awesome videos!!! I can say the same for MjHoaxEvidence!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QtKiRGDv6w&feature=share[/youtube]
Simpa silly me :oops:,Oh my I just saw I forgoy to put the video,sorry :(!!!! Here it is:This video is special for you,[....]Thank you dear. Great video! Seems as if taken fragment from a movie!
Michael Jackson's arrest 2003
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOudWnu6j0E[/youtube]
There must be something wrong with me........I am very calm, even peaceful through this phase. My belief that Michael is alive and well, is just that. For me it's like believing in God.......I just do. There really isn't a thing that could happen in this hoax to shake that....I know I had better be prepared for that to bite me in the booty. Yet, still I am calm. The verdict was just wording surrounded by mystery. Like Poe, like Shakespeare, or Einstein's formulas.......you have to look beyond, have faith, and just know what is said and done, is done for the good. I have no brilliant mind to offer up. I only have a brilliant love and faith to offer up. Faith, Hope, Love...words I live by. I don't stress over June 25th because of those words.....take them to heart and just know.
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
You got that right Curls, and he is saying "Follow the path of L.O.V.E now" Not follow the "Hoax" path.
My beautiful family, I LOVE you all so very much, and it just breaks my heart that so many of you are still "desperately" entangled in Michael and God's "spider web". (hoax) Until you start "thinking outside the box" you will never understand, that the whole Hoax part of this adventure is irrelevant in the Big picture.
The ultimate goal for Michael doing all of this, is to get us to re-evaluate our "lives" and to find that lost "LOVE" that is inside each and everyone of us! The longer people continue on the "Hoax" part of this journey, the longer they are putting off finding out the "Truth", of why Michael had to do what he had to do in order to get the world to "wake up" and see what their lives have become! The world will have no choice, BUT to look at everything they thought was a "reality" and realize that everything was really just an "Illusion". When Michael sang "we are here to change the world", he meant it!!! When Michael said that this is "all for LOVE", he meant it!!!! When he said "I'm going to show them "Talent", like they've never seen before", he meant that also!!!! The world isn't going to know what hit them!
If you are reading this, and you are still searching for answers, I am pleading with you to take a leap of Faith! If your current path isn't giving you the answers you've been searching for, why not "make a Change" and try another path??
A good investigator, looks at EVERY possibility...including the possibility, that Michael was sent to us by God, to help us transition into the next "age"...the "Golden age".
Is it just a "coincidence" that there are many of us here on this forum, who are sitting back, waiting and watching this all unfold, with no FEAR, and no worries, about what the outcome will be, because we just "KNOW"? There may be only a few of us here on this forum that have been "awakened", but you might be surprised at just how many of us there are all around the world, that are feeling this "shift" in our consciousness!! As far fetched as this may seem to you, It is really happening my dear family! If you truly BELIEVE that Michael has faked his "death", and pulled the wool over the eyes of the world, how is it that he was able to pull off something of this magnitude, without TPTB stopping him??
Michael IS invincible, because he is LOVE and he is LIGHT first and foremost. Michael knows the secrets of the universe, and my husband and I truly understand his "Divinity" and I was brought here to this forum strictly because of my strong Belief in LOVE, not because I was a Michael Jackson "Fan", because I was never a "Fan". That in and of itself, only solidifies, that I am connected to Michael because of LOVE...It is our "Common Bond" and he knew that! I came to this forum because of LOVE and I have been posting about LOVE since the beginning ...My Faith and Belief in Michael and LOVE has never wavered, and will never waver!
I have never strayed from the path of Love my whole life. LOVE and GOD, (not religion) are the only things I have ever truly believed in, and despite all of the abuse, and suffering in my life, I never gave up hope that someday I would understand what my purpose here on Earth was and I have always known that LOVE was all that really mattered in this "Material" world, but I never really understood what that meant. Today, I have all of the answers I have been looking for, and I am at "Peace", knowing that my Belief in LOVE and GOD, was not in vain.
Michael is "synonymous" with LOVE. Can you name one other person on this planet that has the ability to make everyone he comes in contact with, feel truly LOVED, like you have a personal relationship with him? This should tell you just how "special" Michael is, and maybe you owe it to yourself, to step out of the "hoax" part of this "adventure, and just research the possibility that Michael really is an "Ascended Master" who was sent from God our creator, to "awaken" the world to the Truth of who we really are, and to help us to transition into the "New Age".
I KNOW that Michael sees and hears everything. I have Never "Physically" met Michael, but I "Feel" him with me at all times, he is truly just another part of me..Michael IS LOVE...I am LOVE..."WE", are LIGHT and LOVE..."WE" are ONE!
If you want answers, you must look at "ALL"possibilities. You need to do some soul searching and re-awaken the LOVE that is buried inside you. Until you take the path "less" traveled, you will stay stuck in this "vortex" we call "REALITY". Michael is counting on his "Army of LOVE" not his "Hoax Army", LOVE is the answer to what you are all searching for!
To all of you who are on the same path as me...Thank you from the bottom of my heart, please know that you are so LOVED and appreciated!! I know that some may think that "we" are the "crazy" ones, but the truth is, We" are the furthest from being "crazy"!! When you finally put all pieces of this puzzle together, it is like you have solved the "Mystery of LIFE"! Nothing else makes sense anymore...well that is how my husband and I feel anyway.
To those of you still searching...Know that Michael IS watching and waiting for you to "see the LIGHT". He truly LOVES each and every one of you, as do I...with all of my heart and soul. Please..."Make that Change"...The message is LOVE and this will end/begin, with LOVE!! Mark my words!
@ Michael...Thank you for all of your guidance and Patience...I LOVE YOU..."Heart" to "Heart" and "Mind" to "Mind", always and Forever...I will never let go of your hand!
" Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. "
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time." :shock:
@mjj4ever777 .....Great Post, well well said. Love your mindset and your message. :)
I do believe the big picture is about love, and that We are One. The material things around us are essentially an illusion.
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
So you say, Michael was really a drug addict. Murray is with the evil side who had been trying to kill Michael and he was trying to kill Michael for real fueling him with drugs but Michael found out about the plan and made him fall into his own trap and therefore Murray is in jail now. And also you say that, Murray's speech on youtube which is exactly like Michael's is just a coincidence. Sorry Scorpion but this means that you missed what a LONG TERM, perfect plan this is! Michael started to give out clues about this hoax at least 20 years ago. It looks like you didn't get any of them and therefore you think Murray is a real killer and Michael arranged a plan in a hurry to get him. You need to start thinking BIGGER and stop thinking Michael is a fragile drug addict. There is so much more than you can imagine. And this is NOT such a simple plan which was decided in a short term. You're missing the important points of the hoax.
Hon, I did not miss anything, I am too realistic and love rationale. Michael is NOT drug addict, what was those bottles about, still not clear since I do not wish to IMAGINE anything. Nobody knows everything for sure but Michael and those who assisted him, I'll wait for the time.
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time." :shock:
YESSS. I was dancing after he said that. You gotta love Jermaine !
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.
@Gina...this was not a murder trial, therefore, under the law/definition of involuntary manslaughter, the 'fatal dose' and who administered it is irrelevant when ALL of Murray's other actions and/or failures are taken into consideration.
Here is the relevant part in the instructions referencing this...and prior to this part in the instructions, the judge instructed the jury that THE LAW states that Murray, as MJ's doctor, had a legal duty to his patient (this is a recognized and undisputable 'fact' under the law).QuoteThere may be more than one cause of death. An act or a failure to perform a legal duty causes the death only if it is a substantial factor in causing the death. A substantial factor is more than a trivial or remote factor. However, it does not have to be the only factor that causes the death.
To relieve a defendant of criminal liability, an intervening cause must be an unforeseeable and extraordinary occurence. A defendant remains criminally liable for the death if either the possible consequence might reasonably have been contemplated or the defendant should have foreseen the possibility of harm of the kind that could result from his or her act.
The failure of the alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson or another person to use reasonable care may have contributed to the death. However, if the defendant's act or the defendant's failure to perform a legal duty was a substantial factor causing the death, then the defendant is legally responsible for the death even though Michael Joseph Jackson or another person may have failed to use reasonable care.
If you have a reasonable doubt whether the defendant's act or failure to perform a legal duty caused the death, you must find him not guilty.
Here's the link to the jury instructions for anyone interested:
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf)
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time." :shock:
@BeTheChange You did in fact, post a part of the jury instruction's that read along the lines of, "if you have reasonable doubt whether the defendant's action or failure to provide legal duty resulting in death, you MUST find him not guilty".
'Reasonable doubt' applies to involuntary manslaughter cases too, so according to those instructions, ofcourse he COULD be found guilty; but that doesn't mean he had to have been. Many error's were made in the investigation process, and handling of evidence, missing evidence etc., that can cause reasonable doubt.
As for the hoax it was a completely different story; if this is a 'Kangaroo Court', then the verdict was predetermined for hoax purposes.
@Bec I recall you not actually calling any part of the hoax a 'sting' on the fans, media etc., specifically, which is what I was referring to.
StrangerInCalifornia, I saw the Jermaine interview on Ellen and it was definitely 'interesting' in the words of Ellen. Can it be more obvious? Lol
I am with you MJJ4ever777. I have a lot of the same thoughts but you are a great writer. Thank you so much for what you have written. There is a spiritual revolution or a revolution in the area of consciousness. Watch the Freedom Movie. All of humanity can be free. It's very simple. Don't let anyone make you live a life of fear and spread love. That's all. There's propoganda, false media, false terror, bad food,economic problems,disasters, diseases etc. keeping people apart, keeping people in fear, and separating us. We have to stop all this. It's just your mind preventing you. Your mind is like your prison.
Take the next step past just thinking about the death hoax. We know it's a fake death, fake trial etc. Think about "Why" this is all happening. It's to wake the masses up so we can have a spiritual revolution, a revolution in the area of knowledge and concsiousness. That is the only way to heal the world so humanity can evolve.
Trust me. I was stuck in the rut of worrying and stressing all the time. Worrying about paying bills, buying food,clothes, cars breaking down, stress at work, taking care of kids etc. and struggling to get through the day. I was getting depressed until last year or so when I found about the death hoax and the reasons why. It gave me so much hope. The world can come together in peace and love if we put our minds to it. Stresses that I used to have are slowly going away and so are a lot of aches and pains. I was going to the chiropractor for muscle and back pain every 2 or 3 weeks but I haven't had to go for the last 6 or 7 months. It's amazing. "I've stopped existing and started living" All the little things don't worry me so much.
Take the next step past thinking just about the trial. Think about the whole world, even the whole universe. penguin/
Love to you all
Murray was negligent, irresponsible, ignorant ( not knowing how to make a resuscitation ). The scene was planned for a conviction, looking at all, it seems that if Murray to do the opposite to what should have been done.
During the research process, the handling of evidence have errors, lack of evidence, contradictions. All over the world saw the court decorda with animals of toy, stuffed animals, a court where no one has sworn to the bible ( correct me if i am wrong or if this does not mean nothing ).
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
You got that right Curls, and he is saying "Follow the path of L.O.V.E now" Not follow the "Hoax" path.
My beautiful family, I LOVE you all so very much, and it just breaks my heart that so many of you are still "desperately" entangled in Michael and God's "spider web". (hoax) Until you start "thinking outside the box" you will never understand, that the whole Hoax part of this adventure is irrelevant in the Big picture.
The ultimate goal for Michael doing all of this, is to get us to re-evaluate our "lives" and to find that lost "LOVE" that is inside each and everyone of us! The longer people continue on the "Hoax" part of this journey, the longer they are putting off finding out the "Truth", of why Michael had to do what he had to do in order to get the world to "wake up" and see what their lives have become! The world will have no choice, BUT to look at everything they thought was a "reality" and realize that everything was really just an "Illusion". When Michael sang "we are here to change the world", he meant it!!! When Michael said that this is "all for LOVE", he meant it!!!! When he said "I'm going to show them "Talent", like they've never seen before", he meant that also!!!! The world isn't going to know what hit them!
If you are reading this, and you are still searching for answers, I am pleading with you to take a leap of Faith! If your current path isn't giving you the answers you've been searching for, why not "make a Change" and try another path??
A good investigator, looks at EVERY possibility...including the possibility, that Michael was sent to us by God, to help us transition into the next "age"...the "Golden age".
Is it just a "coincidence" that there are many of us here on this forum, who are sitting back, waiting and watching this all unfold, with no FEAR, and no worries, about what the outcome will be, because we just "KNOW"? There may be only a few of us here on this forum that have been "awakened", but you might be surprised at just how many of us there are all around the world, that are feeling this "shift" in our consciousness!! As far fetched as this may seem to you, It is really happening my dear family! If you truly BELIEVE that Michael has faked his "death", and pulled the wool over the eyes of the world, how is it that he was able to pull off something of this magnitude, without TPTB stopping him??
Michael IS invincible, because he is LOVE and he is LIGHT first and foremost. Michael knows the secrets of the universe, and my husband and I truly understand his "Divinity" and I was brought here to this forum strictly because of my strong Belief in LOVE, not because I was a Michael Jackson "Fan", because I was never a "Fan". That in and of itself, only solidifies, that I am connected to Michael because of LOVE...It is our "Common Bond" and he knew that! I came to this forum because of LOVE and I have been posting about LOVE since the beginning ...My Faith and Belief in Michael and LOVE has never wavered, and will never waver!
I have never strayed from the path of Love my whole life. LOVE and GOD, (not religion) are the only things I have ever truly believed in, and despite all of the abuse, and suffering in my life, I never gave up hope that someday I would understand what my purpose here on Earth was and I have always known that LOVE was all that really mattered in this "Material" world, but I never really understood what that meant. Today, I have all of the answers I have been looking for, and I am at "Peace", knowing that my Belief in LOVE and GOD, was not in vain.
Michael is "synonymous" with LOVE. Can you name one other person on this planet that has the ability to make everyone he comes in contact with, feel truly LOVED, like you have a personal relationship with him? This should tell you just how "special" Michael is, and maybe you owe it to yourself, to step out of the "hoax" part of this "adventure, and just research the possibility that Michael really is an "Ascended Master" who was sent from God our creator, to "awaken" the world to the Truth of who we really are, and to help us to transition into the "New Age".
I KNOW that Michael sees and hears everything. I have Never "Physically" met Michael, but I "Feel" him with me at all times, he is truly just another part of me..Michael IS LOVE...I am LOVE..."WE", are LIGHT and LOVE..."WE" are ONE!
If you want answers, you must look at "ALL"possibilities. You need to do some soul searching and re-awaken the LOVE that is buried inside you. Until you take the path "less" traveled, you will stay stuck in this "vortex" we call "REALITY". Michael is counting on his "Army of LOVE" not his "Hoax Army", LOVE is the answer to what you are all searching for!
To all of you who are on the same path as me...Thank you from the bottom of my heart, please know that you are so LOVED and appreciated!! I know that some may think that "we" are the "crazy" ones, but the truth is, We" are the furthest from being "crazy"!! When you finally put all pieces of this puzzle together, it is like you have solved the "Mystery of LIFE"! Nothing else makes sense anymore...well that is how my husband and I feel anyway.
To those of you still searching...Know that Michael IS watching and waiting for you to "see the LIGHT". He truly LOVES each and every one of you, as do I...with all of my heart and soul. Please..."Make that Change"...The message is LOVE and this will end/begin, with LOVE!! Mark my words!
@ Michael...Thank you for all of your guidance and Patience...I LOVE YOU..."Heart" to "Heart" and "Mind" to "Mind", always and Forever...I will never let go of your hand!
Mjj4ever777 thank you very much for your :) post!!!!
Once Robert Frost said:
Quote" Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. "
Today I finally decided that I will not research anything anymore,regarding hoax-clues,because I found what I was looking for.Today I decided to CHOOSE THE LESS TRAVELED PATH. The research of clues is over for me,and now I have something more IMPORTANT TO DO.To find out more about THE TRUTH,LOVE and SECRETS OF UNIVERS.The only way to do it is not to say it,WE MUST LIVE IT!!!!!
There are 12 Spiritual PRINCIPLES and Laws for the Liberation of Planet Earth.If someone here wants to know more about them and more about hidden TRUTHS in THIS IS IT movie can watch this video of jackieblue64 video:
Hidden Truths of Michael Jacksons This Is It (PART 4)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xsb36fvQeM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
There is one Principle that I want to disscuss here and that one is THE PRINCIPLE of CAUSE and EFFECT.Michael told us many times about this,during this ADVENTURE and noticed in 2 occasions.In a letter to a staff member of his,when he was in Japan 1987 and when he was in Japan 2006.Here are:
FIRST:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmwCa_ZI/AAAAAAAADIw/ejNxtx1jFvg/s400/scrisoare+1+..JPG)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmTp_cZI/AAAAAAAADIo/PjRwvBK3ltE/s400/scrisoare++2+..JPG)(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmETz-xI/AAAAAAAADIg/0q81f9ZYJ-E/s400/scrisoare++3.JPG)
Pecky,
I very very seldom write letters. But in this moving occasion I couldn’t help myself.
I want to thank you for putting the effort forward to capture the magic and excitement of the people of the world. What you do is a very personal and powerful medium to me. It is the art of stopping time, to preserve a moment that the naked eye cannot hold, to capture truth, spontaneous truth, the depths of excitement in human spirit. All else will be forgotten but not the films.
Generations from now will experience the excitement you’ve captured. It truly is a time capsule. I will not be totally satisfied until I know you’re at the right angle at the right time, to capture a crescendo of emotion that happens so quickly, so spontaneously.
What you have done was good, but I want the best, the whole picture, cause and effect 8-). I want crowd reaction, wide lens shots, depths of emotion, timing. I know we can do it................................
http://grigutza-pravalia.blogspot.com/2010/05/scrisoare-catre-pecky.html (http://grigutza-pravalia.blogspot.com/2010/05/scrisoare-catre-pecky.html)
SECOND:
Michael Jackson 2006 Japan Backstage
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOeMrCxWZ0[/youtube]
Here Michael is in Japan ,backstage in 2006,where he meet singer Rihanna.At one point (4:03) you can seee and hear him,DIRECTING to the cameraman to DOCUMENT everything,ACTION AND REACTION ,and CAUSE AND THE EFFECT,from them(fans) to him,and from him to them (fans) 8-) .If this is not GENIUS then I don't know what genius is ;) .
One more thing before I go,this next video is a GIFT for all of you.I really hope that by watching "THIS",you will become FREE,in order DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
I hope the 911 call will ring for you all,and realize that 21.12.2012 11:11 is COMING :!:.TS said in many occasions that THE END times are coming so I wish you all alot of force for yourself and your family!!!
I LOVE you all and no matter what YOU ARE my second FAMILY :)!!!!
The Freedom Movie 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIf0XcVzWlI&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
And if TS = Front = Back = Michael, maybe we could add one more.
It's a distinct advantage to have a smaller nose, it can be built to any shape or size. (MJ's favorite character is Morph.)
The major hurdle for believing DD to be MJ is the deformed hands, and with Murray it's the height. I believe this was done deliberately by MJ. Again illusion--magician's tricks. Is Murray sitting in this room or does it have a very high ceiling? Certainly the person taking the pic is also 6'5" and at the same eye level. Without putting tons of Murray pictures here, has anyone else noticed how Murray seems to have so many different appearances--skin color, nose shapes, etc.?
It would be the most delicious irony how Michael killed himself. errrr :D
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/murray22.jpg)(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20face%20only/mjhan.jpg)
And if TS = Front = Back = Michael, maybe we could add one more.
It's a distinct advantage to have a smaller nose, it can be built to any shape or size. (MJ's favorite character is Morph.)
The major hurdle for believing DD to be MJ is the deformed hands, and with Murray it's the height. I believe this was done deliberately by MJ. Again illusion--magician's tricks. Is Murray sitting in this room or does it have a very high ceiling? Certainly the person taking the pic is also 6'5" and at the same eye level. Without putting tons of Murray pictures here, has anyone else noticed how Murray seems to have so many different appearances--skin color, nose shapes, etc.?
It would be the most delicious irony how Michael killed himself. errrr :D
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/murray22.jpg)(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20face%20only/mjhan.jpg)
Murray stood up in the courtroom when they cuffed him. Did you see him there and how tall he is? IF that was Michael, he needed to use extra fake legs and arms but we saw Murray's naked legs and arms and they were real and he is a huge guy. I think we should leave Murray alone and let him be. He is not Michael in disguise.
Murray looks the same to me always. Just depends on the lighting and the make up, there can be some skin tone differences which is so normal. You are looking too much where there is nothing there and that is the reason why you see things different in the way he looks.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN6HzQIu4gg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN6HzQIu4gg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
Wow! they even beeped him, he must of swore. lol Connie Connie, you are making money, thanks to Michael and his movie.. I am sure this is Michael's documentary he is the director of this documentary.. Bravo Michael, I applaud you... love and blessings.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN6HzQIu4gg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
Murray was negligent, irresponsible, ignorant ( not knowing how to make a resuscitation ). The scene was planned for a conviction, looking at all, it seems that if Murray to do the opposite to what should have been done.
During the research process, the handling of evidence have errors, lack of evidence, contradictions. All over the world saw the court decorda with animals of toy, stuffed animals, a court where no one has sworn to the bible ( correct me if i am wrong or if this does not mean nothing ).
@Paula. Agree with you 100000%
- deliberately made to look as incompetant as possible
- evidence with errors, on muliple occasions. very unprofessional, screams fake.
- toys, ties, pictures, etc... gags? clues? etheir way. wouldnt finf them in a real court
- swearing in bible. it wouldnt be unusual for someone to decline to swear on bible. (btw, JW's prefer not to swear on bible in court) my objective word here is someONE. the fact that no one swore on the bible was strange. you would expect maybe one or two to object. but for no one to swear, demonstrates fake court.
another point, it that if you think about it, we would all agree the court we saw was the most unprofessional we had ever seen. jacko lanterns, orange ties, clowns, elephants, beavers, jokes, errors, spelling mistakes, wrong dates, word alleged.... i bet none of us have ever seen this kind of unprofessionalism previously in other courtcases, etc. you would think that if this was real, and the court knew it was going to be filmed and broadcast for millions of people to watch across the world, they would make sure spelling was correct, no errors, no jokes by judge, no orange ties, props, etc. if this was real, everyon would be uptight, on their best behaviour trying to be as professional as possible. the fact that it was everything but that demonstrates how fake this court was. it was deliberately unprofessional to show us it was hoax. but the media and hardcore (anti conrad) MJ fans still run away with what they think is truth without looking and listening to clues and facts.
verdict has not shaken my faith one bit. in fact my faith is stronger post verdict then ever before.
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.
I wish you shared the inconsistencies you found in TS' posts and again I wish you kept on reading his updates. You would be understanding that it is not crap but truth only proven with facts!
It's also interesting you to say that you do not believe TS/Front is guiding us, yet you still read and make posts on TS/Front's threads. Why need to waste your time if you think that these threads are crap and no guidance at all?
Anyways, this is not a "TS is fake or TS is real" discussion thread, so we should agree to disagree and move on.
Anyways, this is not a "TS is fake or TS is real" discussion thread, so we should agree to disagree and move on. [/b]
May be this is off topic now.....
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Good guess...lol
...
MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13.
21/3 =777
But he referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?
There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!
May be this is off topic now.....
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Good guess...lol
Yes, good guess!!
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
No stroopwafels.. Sorry TS! :|
However... What I can offer you is some Swedish Pancakes. Please enjoy! ;D
(http://www.receptblogga.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/pannkakor.jpg)
Presented to you by:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqohiMy_CU[/youtube]
anyone notice in the connie doco, how CM refers to him as The Source.
i dont think cm is TS. i have a different opinion on that. but just thought the "The Source" reference was interesting as TS has referenced to himself as The Source previously.
L.O.V.E to all.
Let's celebrate the great day 11 - 11 - 11. My best wishes to all of you great, beautiful, thinking, fighting and LOVING people in hoaxfamily. I had difficulties to post lately, but I'm here every single day to take part of your thoughts and feelings. Blessings and L.O.V.E. to all of you!
...did anyone make a wish on 11/11/11 11:11:11?
11-11-11...my grandfather born this day 100 years ago. I miss him. Robert Robinson.
I too expected TS to post today..and HE DID!! yeehaw.
( I have someone on my FB with the name Friends
Thais Santos Souza...COOL???)
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
No stroopwafels.. Sorry TS! :|
However... What I can offer you is some Swedish Pancakes. Please enjoy! ;D
(http://www.receptblogga.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/pannkakor.jpg)
Presented to you by:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqohiMy_CU[/youtube]
Well, yes -- I did enjoy ...
But somehow virtual food just lacks a bit in taste, and also in appeasing the hunger department. errrr /cook/
Thanks for your reply BeTheChange.
TS, I realized that after lol. I'm going with TMZ knowing the verdict in advance by reporting it at 1:15; just like they did in pronouncing the "death". Another clue to let us know, they know.
It was future when I posted this thread (at 2:13); but it is not future anymore. The 2005 verdict timing was a reminder to watch for the 2011 verdict timing (1:17 on 11-7).
TMZ either knew the verdict in advance, or else fudged on their time (1:15). The verdict was not read until 1:17; anyone watching the clock would've known that. Also the time is documented on this thread, and HLN, as I pointed out already.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all)
...did anyone make a wish on 11/11/11 11:11:11?
Yup! I just LOVE dates and times like these!
@ Grace, everything happened in California surrounding this hoax. One time zone of Michael's choice, would be more significant than others because it's not possible for things to happen in accordance with every time zone; so one has to be more relevant.
I do think though, that is why no one caught on to paying attention to the verdict time; because we all live in different time zones.
Wishing everyone a great 11-11-11...lest we forget.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCbGHI_4Hs[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Wishing everyone a great 11-11-11...lest we forget.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCbGHI_4Hs[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Sad that the message of your video has gone ignored but what TS whats to eat is high priority. I thought Michael's message was about love - not food. The video is a beautiful - a wonderful reminder for all of us. Thanks for sharing. *No offence TS
1. I agree 100% that if Murray had been found Not Guilty it would have caused riots therefore I believe the jury convicted on that fear of riots which is an emotional conviction. The jury did not want to be known as the jury who caused a horrible aftermath. Although the jury was told not to read or do all the other things the judge said not to do while not in court this jury had been exposed to everything regarding this case. The media, family, Murray, etc. helped to plant info that would remain in the juries mind while deliberating. The Casey Anthony trial was fresh and it was being said that the jury made a mistake with their verdict. Many people are angry over the decision and there has been backlash. The Murray jury did not want that kind of stuff to happen because of them.
2. There is way more to this Guilty verdict in regards to emotional based conviction. This is what I said from the beginning:QuoteThe list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.
Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:
It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.
The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.
I will explain more below about the mind games played to ensure a Guilty verdict.
3. It is my belief that the jury did not take everything into consideration and based their decision on closing arguments from the DA especially the part about MJ's kids not having their father anymore. I believe this jury allowed their emotions to take over and the DA made sure to plant subliminal heart tugging sad stuff.
I believe the jury convicted Murray because of them seeing MJ's fam in the court house, the jury felt like they owed a Guilty verdict for the fam especially seeing Katherine in the court room, that helped to ensure a Guilty verdict. Murray's own words and actions helped to convict him. The wording asked/explained to the jury allowed for a Guilty verdict.
Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
right to control one's own defense e.g. selecting one's own defense counsel
right to hear a full and precise statement of the charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right not to incriminate oneself
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality, prejudice or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right to have no interference or undue influence made by external agencies e.g. political or military leaders
right of appeal against conviction
They knew about the involuntary manslaughter charge against Murray before they came to court and most of them know Jackson's music. A few said they were fans and one, the video animation specialist, said he had some interaction with Jackson when the singer was making the video, "Captain EO."
Conrad Murray jury selection will be quick
The judge in the manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson's doctor is allowing lawyers only half the usual time to question potential panelists as they cull the pool
September 23, 2011|By Harriet Ryan, Los Angeles Times
If, as is often said, trials are won or lost in the selection of jurors, the fate of Michael Jackson's doctor may be sealed Friday when a pool of prospective jurors is narrowed to a dozen.
That jury is expected to spend about five weeks hearing testimony about the music icon's final days and the culpability of Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's $150,000-a-month personal physician who gave him the surgical anesthetic propofol as a sleep aid.
The approximately 145 potential jurors are already well-known to both sides, thanks to what the judge in the case has called "the most complete questionnaire ever" — 32 pages of questions about their background, job history, views of Jackson and exposure to the media coverage of his 2009 overdose. In an initial screening earlier this month, every potential juror said they had some knowledge of the involuntary manslaughter case against Murray.
Because the questionnaire is so thorough, Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor has said he will allow attorneys only half the normally allotted time to question the would-be jurors as a group in court.
With less than a minute per potential juror, lawyers are likely to have decided beforehand "whether they want to keep them or get rid of them," said Richard Hirschorn, a veteran Texas jury consultant.
Murray's defense lawyers retained an unidentified jury consultant to help evaluate the questionnaires. The prosecutor's office has used such consultants in the past but elected not to this time.
"It's very lean times for public prosecutors' offices," said Sandi Gibbons, a spokeswoman for the district attorney's office.
In evaluating the questionnaires, experts said, both sides are likely to home in on the questions they care about most. Hirschorn said prosecutors might focus on what jurors wrote about their experiences with doctors and prescription drugs. Particularly revealing, he said, was the question, "Has a physician ever refused to prescribe a medication that you specifically requested?"
"That's the prosecution case in one sentence — Murray should have said no" to his famous patient, Hirschorn said. People who have been turned down by doctors may be more critical of Murray's acquiescence: "I'm putting them on the jury 99 out of 100 times," he said.
Questions about how closely they followed other high-profile legal cases, including the recent Casey Anthony murder trial in Florida, might draw close scrutiny also, said Richard Gabriel, a jury consultant who worked for music producer Phil Spector's murder defense. He said jurors interested in true crime stories covered obsessively by such cable news hosts as Nancy Grace "tend to be pretty pro-prosecution."
Justice, on such programs, "has become code for conviction," he said.
Attorneys might also zero in on potential jurors' experiences with drug and alcohol addiction, the subject of three questions. Hirschorn said people who have dealt with substance abuse would probably be more open to Murray's claim that Jackson begged for propofol and gave himself the fatal dose.
"If they know somebody who has been addicted, then they know that person will do whatever they have to to get drugs," Hirschorn said.
Legal teams typically rank jurors from one to five based on their answers and information turned up by Internet or public searches. In court Friday, experts said, both sides are likely to focus on the jurors they rank as ones — the worst for their case.
"It's not a matter of picking the people you want. It's really a de-selection process: getting rid of the worst of the worst and hoping the ones that are left can be fair," said Hirschorn, who worked for the defense in the William Kennedy Smith rape trial in the early 1990s.
Both sides can excuse 10 potential jurors without giving a reason. Additionally, they can ask the judge to remove anyone who shows bias.
But Howard Varinsky, the jury consultant for prosecutors in the trials of Scott Peterson and Martha Stewart, said the short time for questioning jurors in Murray's case will probably hurt lawyers' attempts to tease out bias.
"It usually takes about five, six … minutes" of questioning, Varinsky said. "When you've got one minute, you can't do it. You're handcuffed."
The limited time also constrains follow-up questions, such as in the case of jurors who check a box identifying themselves as Jackson fans, Gabriel said.
"You don't know if that means 'I've seen every concert and own every album' or 'I just really liked "Thriller,"'" he said.
@Im_convincedmjalive Excellent post. However, I am not sure if they depended on mind manipulation to make them say guilty due to an emotional response. That is a great argument and worth exploring but the only thing that gives me pause is the timing of everything. That would be really risky to solely trust in the jury's response and expect them to be completed by 11/7 and be ready to read the verdict by 1:15 or 1:17pm unless MJ had back up plans if they picked other days but I just don't think the timing was done by accident. And saying this makes me wonder if the jury was in on it to a degree or were outside influences forcing them to make a decision quickly.@looking4truth-I didn't say they depended on mind manipulation only. If you take everything into context of what I wrote in the comment http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369761#msg369761 you answered and put it together with the info below as a whole, the defense side used the tactics (partially) of mind manipulation. Maybe it would make you feel better if I say the defense highly influenced the juries decision. BTW this whole post isn't directed at you only. ;)
In a separate interview broadcast Wednesday, one of the jurors said there were contentious moments, including yelling and cajoling, during the two days of deliberations.
Debbie Franklin, 48, told ABC-TV's "Good Morning America" in the first juror interview so far that most of the jurors had decided on guilt Friday, the first day of deliberations.
But, she said "not everyone was convinced that Dr. Murray was solely responsible for Michael Jackson's death."
"Toward the end of the day, we finally took a vote," Franklin said. "It was not unanimous and we talked a little more about it." The panel decided to think it over during a weekend break.
"It was stressful," said the mother of two, who is a paralegal. She said there was "yelling and we had to keep saying, `Nobody talk while this person is talking. Raise your hand if you have something to say."
The majority managed on Monday to convince all jurors that Murray was negligent and his mistakes led to Jackson death, Franklin said.
He had addictions. He asked other doctors to do it (give him the operating room anesthetic propofol). They said no. He was looking for somebody to say yes. And Conrad Murray said yes," she said.
An Associated Press reporter approached Franklin for an interview Wednesday but she refused. She said all jurors had agreed not to speak to the media, but she did not explain why they made that agreement or why she spoke to ABC.