Post by: TS_comments on September 27, 2011, 04:13:11 AM
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
If anyone needs a good laugh, to help you get through the trial, take a look at the comments about the 777 bottles of propofol kicking around on the floor {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339)}.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol:) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court). In the previous levels, I have not had time to answer many of the comments; and frequently the comments are off topic, or repetition from those who haven’t read everything in the thread. So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive; hopefully this will make things more efficient. bangbang bangbang
Let the hopping begin!
/judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 04:28:05 AM
/judge/
They got to be 7 suspicious// or maybe you keep it for level 7 :mrgreen:
bearhug
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 04:40:27 AM
Assuming level 7 is different from update 7 right? Because you said update 7 will be after the bam.
p.s. I hope this thread won't be a game in 3, what is the rest of us supposed to do while you 3 will discuss the 3 theories :?
Post by: TS_comments on September 27, 2011, 04:57:06 AM
To guess the subject and/or timing of level 7 ?
Assuming level 7 is different from update 7 right? Because you said update 7 will be after the bam.
p.s. I hope this thread won't be a game in 3, what is the rest of us supposed to do while you 3 will discuss the 3 theories :?
Discuss among yourselves, maybe even with bec and Im_convincedmjalive; I'm just saying that I won't have the time to discuss with everyone (I'm sure I will some, but maybe not much).
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 05:02:34 AM
"A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to hear a full statement of the exact charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right not to incriminate oneself
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to control one's own defense
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right of appeal"
Well I can't wait to see if this is going to be a kangaroo court for real.
@TS: sorry you don't have much time. It's good you will be here anyway.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 27, 2011, 05:36:16 AM
So level 6 is previous levels and anything we get in court
Level 7 is...?
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 07:41:07 AM
Between TS and Front...there's a shitload of bottles for us to count :lol: . Murray must've had a magical Santa sac to put them all in!
THIS IS IT!!! /woohoo/ Just a few hours til showtime...errr, kangaroo court. Will bec and Im_convinced be giving us their opening statements as well? :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
TS...thanks for being here bearhug
Post by: Adi on September 27, 2011, 08:01:15 AM
Yep we are bouncing straight towards the start line.......might need to buckle up.
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 27, 2011, 08:15:19 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 08:19:17 AM
Just hope the Jackson family is doing alright. I know the end result will be worth it all...but I'm sure that the 'means' to get there won't be easy all the time. Wishing them, and all of you, a wonderful day full of enLIGHTenment.
TS...do you ever sleep? You were up at the crack of dawn this morning...or had you not even gone to bed yet? :?
@ilovemjforever...coverage starts at 11am Eastern time.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Adi on September 27, 2011, 08:30:12 AM
I'm bouncing alright Adi...bouncing off the walls! I could use one of those 777 bottles right about now lolol/ . It's been a long time since I've been this excited!
Just hope the Jackson family is doing alright. I know the end result will be worth it all...but I'm sure that the 'means' to get there won't be easy all the time. Wishing them, and all of you, a wonderful day full of enLIGHTenment.
TS...do you ever sleep? You were up at the crack of dawn this morning...or had you not even gone to bed yet? :?
@ilovemjforever...coverage starts at 11am Eastern time.
With L.O.V.E. always.
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/
We must all be feeling the same (I had a small dental operation on Monday and yes you guessed it - I had Propofol to sedate me!!! it was a weird feeling)
I hope the Jacksons are doing OK too.
It's nearlly 11pm here and I have to work tomorrow so I can't stay up to watch the LiveStream ......I will have to try to catch up secretly tomorrow when I'm at work.
Can't wait to find out what is said on the 1st day that we will get to pick it apart, analyse and post in this thread!
Thanks TS
bearhug
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 08:45:58 AM
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
Is it just me...or is that part of what TS said odd? Based on what I've learned about TS...there's usually a meaning for everything he writes. Why mention our discussion not affecting the verdict? Even if the jurors did get info online (even if not allowed)...would they come here? Hmmm...maybe I'm just over-bouncing...which could be highly possible since I only had 4 hours of sleep. Time to brew the coffee.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: PrincessMuffybear on September 27, 2011, 09:07:06 AM
I am ready for any "bumpy air" in flight. bounce/
Thank you TS. You are clearly lead by the Lord.
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on September 27, 2011, 09:08:29 AM
Because I realized something (maybe it has been said before on the forums, and if so I apologize):
Sept=9
27=2+7=9
2011=11-2=9
=999
:mrgreen:
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 09:09:48 AM
I'm bouncing alright Adi...bouncing off the walls! I could use one of those 777 bottles right about now lolol/ . It's been a long time since I've been this excited!
Just hope the Jackson family is doing alright. I know the end result will be worth it all...but I'm sure that the 'means' to get there won't be easy all the time. Wishing them, and all of you, a wonderful day full of enLIGHTenment.
Well for me it already was a day of HUGE enlightenment, you won't believe it in the end guys, you just won't f***** believe it. Just....keep watchin' LOL what else can I say?
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 09:14:15 AM
Quote
Sources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 09:35:05 AM
Level 2:whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax March 9
Level 3: who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA? MJ himself, an MJ double (still alive), a real corpse, a dummy, or nothing? April 11
Level 4: who is the focus of The Sting?we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation May 1
Level 5:Did the illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the illuminati? June 25
Level 6: back again to hoax court/sting court/ murder court theories. September 27
Level 7: ??????? Only TS knows
Post by: AnaMarcia on September 27, 2011, 09:43:07 AM
|
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 09:47:02 AM
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
Post by: hesouttamylife on September 27, 2011, 09:55:41 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 09:58:13 AM
Level 7 will perhaps (?) have something to do with Update 7 which TS said probably won't come until after the Bam.
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
TS said Update 7 will be after the bam. In the meantime he/she invented these "levels". So I think Level 7 is different from Update 7 and will probably happen before the bam.
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on September 27, 2011, 10:00:06 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 10:03:05 AM
But great opening statement bec...simple but compelling ;)
Where's Im_convinced? Time's a ticking...I need a rebuttal lolol/
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I feel like a child on Christmas morning...and I LOVE it and God knows I've missed it!
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 10:03:31 AM
Level 7 will perhaps (?) have something to do with Update 7 which TS said probably won't come until after the Bam.
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
TS said Update 7 will be after the bam. In the meantime he/she invented these "levels". So I think Level 7 is different from Update 7 and will probably happen before the bam.
He said probably. You know how he does.
Post by: finfin on September 27, 2011, 10:21:03 AM
Thanks go to TNZ on twitter
(http://truenewszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/playroom.jpg)
Post by: PureLove on September 27, 2011, 10:26:24 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 27, 2011, 10:27:13 AM
Level 7 will perhaps (?) have something to do with Update 7 which TS said probably won't come until after the Bam.
Now, the timing of this depends on your interpretation of what Bam will be.
TS said Update 7 will be after the bam. In the meantime he/she invented these "levels". So I think Level 7 is different from Update 7 and will probably happen before the bam.
He said probably. You know how he does.
Doesn't make much sense that Update 7 will be after the bam except the case Update 7 is a sort of summarizing explanation of the hoax, revealing the real whys and hows of the hoax.
Post by: Elsa on September 27, 2011, 10:37:38 AM
Post by: wishingstar on September 27, 2011, 10:53:10 AM
I have HLN on and watching the coverage of the trial as I sit here to read among my friend's posts (which I LOVE).
What makes me comment so harshly on humanity are the actions of the press/media. I have only this network on, but no doubt others are as pompous & self-righteous in their reporting. I can't believe how much they are eating this alive and turning it into such vulgar display of their own devices. They just reported that, "the Jacksons just all went into the bathroom".....I am sorry but WTF?? . These press/media people are so vain, so disgusting, so arrogant in their speech. I remember the trial in 2005, and it was crazy then too. However, like everything in the world, it's more now. We have more tech at our disposal now.....direct links, facebook, twitter, texting, instant communications all over the place.
The entire coverage seems more like a sports event. I am expecting the reporters to pullout a playbook and do those little point A to point B lines. (A girl is being interviewed from Germany.....came just for the trial).
Anyways, I am so over-the-top ill with the press.......they are such self-promoting maggots. I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have your life dissected by these creatures. All the self-promoting commercials for this.....make me puke.
Well, sorry for the rant......but I had to say something. I hope this trial is staged, because otherwise I just might throw in the towel and go live on a mountain top.....hopefully with a nice vineyard....how 'bout it BeTheChange...mountain top vineyard? ::P
I am sure by the time this is over, I'll have to rant again....hopefully, I'll be able to control it better.
OMGosh...they just called it a "circus".......wow, is this for real? Humanity at it's best........not.
Murray entered the 9th floor and was rushed by some woman.
Blessings
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 27, 2011, 11:35:53 AM
I just have a random comment on humanity: It can suck at times.
I have HLN on and watching the coverage of the trial as I sit here to read among my friend's posts (which I LOVE).
What makes me comment so harshly on humanity are the actions of the press/media. I have only this network on, but no doubt others are as pompous & self-righteous in their reporting. I can't believe how much they are eating this alive and turning it into such vulgar display of their own devices. They just reported that, "the Jacksons just all went into the bathroom".....I am sorry but WTF?? . These press/media people are so vain, so disgusting, so arrogant in their speech. I remember the trial in 2005, and it was crazy then too. However, like everything in the world, it's more now. We have more tech at our disposal now.....direct links, facebook, twitter, texting, instant communications all over the place.
The entire coverage seems more like a sports event. I am expecting the reporters to pullout a playbook and do those little point A to point B lines. (A girl is being interviewed from Germany.....came just for the trial).
Anyways, I am so over-the-top ill with the press.......they are such self-promoting maggots. I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have your life dissected by these creatures. All the self-promoting commercials for this.....make me puke.
Well, sorry for the rant......but I had to say something. I hope this trial is staged, because otherwise I just might throw in the towel and go live on a mountain top.....hopefully with a nice vineyard....how 'bout it BeTheChange...mountain top vineyard? ::P
I am sure by the time this is over, I'll have to rant again....hopefully, I'll be able to control it better.
OMGosh...they just called it a "circus".......wow, is this for real? Humanity at it's best........not.
Murray entered the 9th floor and was rushed by some woman.
Blessings
i agree with you 100% vulgarity .. Some people have audacity.. I am also watching HLN and at the begining they wrote that one juror was with the judge.. I wonder if it is not Michael.. Why one juror?
Post by: wishingstar on September 27, 2011, 12:06:01 PM
All this talk about the shipments of drugs......shocking. Reminds me of all the dirty docs in Hollywood.
The recording they played...the one of Michael on May 10th that Murray recorded.......I had to tighten the seatbelt and fight the tears. *sigh* this is truly difficult to watch......I am realizing I am much weaker than I thought.
OK....back to court.....
BTW.....sorry about being so ugly about the press earlier...I am not usually so angry :oops:
Blessings
Post by: TrueBeLIEver1981 on September 27, 2011, 12:14:04 PM
Post by: mij on September 27, 2011, 12:26:59 PM
Post by: wishingstar on September 27, 2011, 12:33:15 PM
Also....welcome guys....I don't know if you are new, but your names are not too familiar. Glad to read your posts....it's crazy for sure.
Have a beautiful day.....
Blessings
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 01:01:26 PM
I'm by NO means anywhere near throwing in the towel...but holy shit that was hard to listen to.
I don't think the Merlot is gonna cut it today lol.
Oh...and those who mentioned CM being Mike...there were a couple moments there, although fleeting, where I had the same thought.
Hang in there everyone...you might wanna grab some more seatbelts.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: giuliana78 on September 27, 2011, 01:05:00 PM
Post by: IWantYouBack on September 27, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 02:26:46 PM
Keys I found at first glance:
:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
:idea:Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
:idea: Two paramedics pictured, as we discovered already, one white, one black. Neither paramedic in the ambulance pic was black so what's that all about?
:idea: Stretcher pic: He's not bald, doesn't look old, or emaciated, and certainly not like a cancer patient. He looks exactly like Michael Jackson. What's he wearing? It appears to have sleeves. It is a hospital snuggy? He appears to be wearing what might be a watch. Where is the endo-tracheal tube? The autopsy states it is still present and in place. It is certainly present in the ambulance pic. Who captioned it "Homicide"? It's a manslaughter trial.
:!: :lol: The stretcher pic and Michael's appearance is right out of the Scream video set.
:idea: Chernoff: in regards to MJ, "He did an act... he did an act" repetitively stressed.
:idea: Chernoff: in regards to helping the jury understand the evidence, "We will provide you The Sign." Love it. Little TS shout out there.
There is nothing to be scared of. It's an adventure, a great adventure. This is starting with a bang. Tons of clues and proof for us.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 27, 2011, 02:32:13 PM
I'm with hesouttamylife...gonna take the day to S.T.U.D.Y. the 'key' players before rendering my verdict re: hoax or sting /judge/Oh lord have mercy on me during this trial. I have issues with my PC, it is very slow. I am also late logging on and just now reading the thread. I am watching right now the opening statements on In Session and for some reason I am 3 hours behind the actual LA trial start. I am on the west coast so I do not understand why it is like that. Please have patience because I do have my A game on. I won't rush to make any comments until I have read or watched what I need to. smiley_spider
But great opening statement bec...simple but compelling ;)
Where's Im_convinced? Time's a ticking...I need a rebuttal lolol/
Post by: Mish1981 on September 27, 2011, 02:47:18 PM
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 03:01:36 PM
http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/photo-day-14 (http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/photo-day-14)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/MJJofficialsitepicoftheday9272011.jpg)
:lol:
Post by: Andrea on September 27, 2011, 03:55:19 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-jackson-splash-2-credit.jpg)
Randy, Janet, La Toya (with a SUNFLOWER, lol)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-janet-jackson-latoya-split-credit.jpg)
ALL the Jacksons are wearing sunglasses again, like at the Memorial.
Also, the big word of the day at the trial is "abandonment"...I wonder if the double meaning here is all the fans who abandoned Michael after the allegations and 2005 trial. Remember Madonna said "we abandoned him".
HOAX COURT. With a sting. LOL.
(pics from arriving at court today)
Post by: AnaMarcia on September 27, 2011, 04:20:28 PM
There should be easy for him too! I almost feel sorry for Murray!
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 27, 2011, 04:47:42 PM
This morning gave me the perfect opening statement (although significantly less formal then you might expect). Thank you TMZ for this quote:bec- I don't want to go back and forth to much with one topic. Cool with you?QuoteSources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
So I am starting here with the TMZ article. First of all it says sources and who are the sources? Absolutely no one that I know. Prince may not have said that.
If I go with the article being legit then Prince being worried he would mess up sounds like to me he would be worried he wouldn't say the right thing to convict Murray of his dad's death.
I don't believe Prince would be nervous of messing up. LOL!
Was he nervous at the Grammy's speaking for the first time in front of a camera and millions of people?
Was he nervous when he spoke to Oprah? Was he nervous when he spoke to Robin when he was at the place with his grandma when they were talking about him wanting to produce movies? Was he nervous when he recently went to Germany for the Bambi awards? He was signing autographs like a star... :?:
Post by: PeaceLoveHappiness on September 27, 2011, 05:44:06 PM
Wishingstar, I agree with you 100I just have a random comment on humanity: It can suck at times.
I have HLN on and watching the coverage of the trial as I sit here to read among my friend's posts (which I LOVE).
What makes me comment so harshly on humanity are the actions of the press/media. I have only this network on, but no doubt others are as pompous & self-righteous in their reporting. I can't believe how much they are eating this alive and turning it into such vulgar display of their own devices. They just reported that, "the Jacksons just all went into the bathroom".....I am sorry but WTF?? . These press/media people are so vain, so disgusting, so arrogant in their speech. I remember the trial in 2005, and it was crazy then too. However, like everything in the world, it's more now. We have more tech at our disposal now.....direct links, facebook, twitter, texting, instant communications all over the place.
The entire coverage seems more like a sports event. I am expecting the reporters to pullout a playbook and do those little point A to point B lines. (A girl is being interviewed from Germany.....came just for the trial).
Anyways, I am so over-the-top ill with the press.......they are such self-promoting maggots. I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to have your life dissected by these creatures. All the self-promoting commercials for this.....make me puke.
Well, sorry for the rant......but I had to say something. I hope this trial is staged, because otherwise I just might throw in the towel and go live on a mountain top.....hopefully with a nice vineyard....how 'bout it BeTheChange...mountain top vineyard? ::P
I am sure by the time this is over, I'll have to rant again....hopefully, I'll be able to control it better.
OMGosh...they just called it a "circus".......wow, is this for real? Humanity at it's best........not.
Murray entered the 9th floor and was rushed by some woman.
Blessings
i agree with you 100% vulgarity .. Some people have audacity.. I am also watching HLN and at the begining they wrote that one juror was with the judge.. I wonder if it is not Michael.. Why one juror?
I agree with you guys. The HLN people are really irritating me. Stupid media. I don't understand why everything has to be a story anymore. I had to mute HLN and just start listening to the livestream link that Souza provided. The only reason I still have the TV on is so I can look at the people while they're talking. Although there is a slight delay on the HLN channel so I'm hearing them before they're actually talking on the TV.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 27, 2011, 06:08:52 PM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18053.0.html
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
Photo Used In Trial - MJ At The Hospital
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20590.msg357764.html#msg357764
Hey all, http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj
Here is a link ( http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj ) to the photo used in the trial, which is a picture of MJ lying on a stretcher at the hospital.
This makes me VERY sad... But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. My only question: Why does MJ have straight hair if he had curly hair the night before he died?
What are your thoughts?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)Take a good look at all the pictures provided. The first 4 are from Level 1 and the other 2 are from the thread "Photo Used In Trial - MJ At The Hospital". First of all I wanna know where the first pic (the one with the word Homicide on it) came from? I want to know the source, not an upload on yfrog.
Was this a pic that the police took? Is this really the pic shown in court because I could barely see it on my TV.
Do the pictures look like the staged (photoshopped) ambulance picture? The hair difference could be because he had no wig on or he did have a wig on but changed it from curly to straight before he staged the photo using himself or it may be a wax dummy. They all look staged to me and a wax dummy was used.
Post by: suspicious mind on September 27, 2011, 06:19:30 PM
I don't know. I realize this may sound crazy and while I am a BeLIEver. Something tells me that Michael Jackson is Conrad Murray. There's just something about him whenever I see something unique, mysterious, and I don't know it's a weird feeling I get.been feeling this for a while now myself. i guess if it turns out we are just nuts we can share the jacket on alternate days. penguin/
Post by: MissG on September 27, 2011, 06:21:46 PM
The judge said also the same.
To me looks more like AEG/ producers vs Michael and Murray and viceversa.
Michael was treated like an amateur artist, given shitty dates at the forum and with a poor production, not to mention the poor medical settings >:(
Ortega read the email about pulling off...well, talking like that about Michael sounds more like if he had no faith on him.
Back to propofol, the common name there is KLEIN.
LaToya said to follow the money trail, and it´s more clear than ever.
Post by: MissG on September 27, 2011, 06:25:54 PM
Photo Used In Trial - MJ At The Hospital
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20590.msg357764.html#msg357764 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20590.msg357764.html#msg357764)
Hey all, http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj (http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj)
Here is a link ( http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj (http://yfrog.com/h0edxvosj) ) to the photo used in the trial, which is a picture of MJ lying on a stretcher at the hospital.
This makes me VERY sad... But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. My only question: Why does MJ have straight hair if he had curly hair the night before he died?
What are your thoughts?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)Take a good look at all the pictures provided. The first 4 are from Level 1 and the other 2 are from the thread "Photo Used In Trial - MJ At The Hospital". First of all I wanna know where the first pic (the one with the word Homicide on it) came from? I want to know the source, not an upload on yfrog.
Was this a pic that the police took? Is this really the pic shown in court because I could barely see it on my TV.
Do the pictures look like the staged (photoshopped) ambulance picture? The hair difference could be because he had no wig on or he did have a wig on but changed it from curly to straight before he staged the photo using himself or it may be a wax dummy. They all look staged to me and a wax dummy was used.
[/quot
1- what´s on with the wirst
2- what´s on with Michael legs...or...where are Michael´s legs?
3- looks like an image taken from a video camera
4- reminds me of the "leaf pattern" face
Post by: youngatheart on September 27, 2011, 06:28:12 PM
Love and Blessings to all
Post by: hesouttamylife on September 27, 2011, 06:33:48 PM
Is that a real picture or a painting?
The recording - Why would a doctor have that on his phone unless he planned to use it later for something? It sounded like a slow motion play-back.
Oxman needs to shut-up. Still tryng to get some MJ moulah.
Michael was to rehearse his “illusion” on 6/25 of disappearing. He did.
This was kind of hard, but I’m still trying to keep the faith. I so hope Karen Faye is testifying. They are gonna tear hear ass to shreds.
Post by: MissG on September 27, 2011, 06:42:14 PM
Unfortunately, that picture of Michael could be a picture of any person being in a public (or private) hospital. Let´s not forget how many people still do not have proper medical care or access to hospitals because they don´t have insurance or money.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 27, 2011, 06:44:00 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 27, 2011, 06:48:43 PM
Quote
Michael Jackson death certificate ruling homicide appears online
by Mandi Bierly
The amendment to Michael Jackson’s death certificate declaring that his June 25 passing was due to “acute propofol intoxication” and “intravenous injection by another,” has been published online.
EW has confirmed with the L.A. County coroner’s office that the document, which is part of the public record, is genuine. Jackson’s death was officially ruled a homicide last August.
On Friday afternoon, Jane Robison, a spokeswoman for the L.A. district attorney’s office, told EW that recent reports claiming Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson’s physician, will be indicted on charges of involuntary manslaughter are false. “Nothing has changed,” Robison said. “It’s a bogus report. We don’t have the case.” WTF??
A spokeswoman for Dr. Murray also sent EW the following statement: “We have refused to comment on stories involving unnamed sources and will continue to do so. However, we can confirm that we have not received notice of an impaneled grand jury and Dr. Murray has not been invited to testify. J. Michael Flanagan was added to Dr. Conrad Murray’s defense team this past week. His offices are in Glendale, California.” As we previously reported, Flanagan is the attorney who represented Britney Spears in a hit-and-run case. He told the AP he once also successfully defended a nurse who was acquitted in an L.A. trial after being accused of administering propofol to a patient who died.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide
Quote
Homicide refers to the act of a human killing another human.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide#Criminal_homicide
Quote
Criminal homicide
Criminal homicide takes several forms and includes certain unintentional killings. The crime committed in a criminal homicide is determined by the state of mind of the defendant and statutes defining the crime. Murder, for example, is usually an intentional crime. In some jurisdictions, certain types of murders automatically qualify for capital punishment, but if the defendant in a capital case is sufficiently mentally retarded in the United States he may not be executed, for reasons described in Atkins v. Virginia, similar to those utilizing an insanity defense.
Varying by jurisdiction, a homicide that occurs during the commission of a felony may constitute murder regardless the felon's mental state with regard to the killing. This is known as the felony murder rule. Much abbreviatted and incomplete, the felony murder rule says that one committing a felony may be guilty of murder if someone, including the felony victim, a bystander or a co-felon, dies as a result of his acts, regardless his intent - or lack thereof - to kill.
Criminal homicides also include voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. The mental state of the perpetrator of these crimes differs from that of one who commits murder.
Although suicide is not a form of homicide, assisting in another's suicide may constitute criminal homicide, as codified, for instance, in California Penal Code Sec. 401.
The death was ruled a Homicide but Murray was charged with Involuntay Manslaughter based on the laws definition.
A few things I noted during opening statements:
Judge says there may be some delays and that would be his doing. He gave the jury instructions. Judge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.
The DA said Murray initially asked for $5 million? Huh? But he settled for $150,000 a month. Murray was hired as an independant contractor. Murray recorded MJ on May 10, 09 slurring his words. That tape was played more than once and how do we really know it was MJ?
About the DA saying Murray wasn't board certified in any state, that's new to me and I call BS. Does a doctor have to be board certified to have a liscense to practice? If yes then??? I think the DA lied, is fabricating evidence. He is saying things early on to get inside the jurors heads. Why else would he mention the money, no board certification, and play the tape of MJ more than once?
Dirty DA's office. Something smells like a stinky Sting.
Post by: MissG on September 27, 2011, 06:56:49 PM
I´ve heard people after dental surgery who talks that way, also people who suffered an Ictus, people who took heroin and people talking in their sleep.
Post by: scorpionchik on September 27, 2011, 07:00:33 PM
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
Shamone TS, I have never had a doubt that there will be trial simply because I've never believed it is a sting court. That does not make me insider.
I don't mind you or/and Front be an insider, I will be happy if it is true, but I personally need more than what you wrote above.
Post by: MissG on September 27, 2011, 07:07:17 PM
Post by: Andrea on September 27, 2011, 07:12:12 PM
Quote
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on September 27, 2011, 07:22:19 PM
QuoteFor this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
As of right now, I tend to agree with you Andrea...I can see both sides being in on it! All I know for sure is I've never seen such a "sloppy" trial before...so far it reminds me more of "Romper Room " then it does "Court"...I can't believe that more of the media haven't picked up on this!...Oh wait...yes I can! lolol/
Post by: paula-c on September 27, 2011, 07:24:50 PM
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Post by: airieslady on September 27, 2011, 07:26:22 PM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 27, 2011, 07:28:22 PM
Post by: paula-c on September 27, 2011, 07:29:16 PM
QuoteFor this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
As of right now, I tend to agree with you Andrea...I can see both sides being in on it! All I know for sure is I've never seen such a "sloppy" trial before...so far it reminds me more of "Romper Room " then it does "Court"...I can't believe that more of the media haven't picked up on this!...Oh wait...yes I can! lolol/
I am also thinking in the same way
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on September 27, 2011, 07:36:16 PM
I still don't know whether it's a staged court or a sting court, but i have a lot of observations to share with you my friends.
Was this a pic that the police took? Is this really the pic shown in court because I could barely see it on my TV
Yes Im_convinceedmjalive, they actually showed it on TV. The prosecution used this as a background picture almost for the entire presentation of their opening statement. And now we have the TMZ article about this pic. http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/27/michael-jackson-death-photo-prosecution-doctored-cleaned-david-walgren-opening-statement-picture-poll/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/27/michael-jackson-death-photo-prosecution-doctored-cleaned-david-walgren-opening-statement-picture-poll/)
Which states that "It appears the photo is NOT the original pic -- because now it includes a tattered border, a morgue-esque green hue ... and the word "Homicide" printed over MJ's body in a grainy, police-style font."
The picture looks very unrealistic to me, the wrist is soooooo tiny, legs are short, hair is straight, but he looks like MJ, why paramedics couldn't recognize him will remain a mystery to me.
During the lunch break Taj Jackson made a rather interesting tweet, which goes along with the agenda of Front, against fake fans.
tajjackson3
So sad that at a time like this we still have "fans" making personal attacks against our family. Really pathetic. :-(
Another tweet for LaToya was very confusing, for me personally
I am appalled by the lies I have heard so far.....@#Hln @CNN#mjfam
Is she saying that she is appalled by their lies or she appalled by other lies and she is asking HLN to see those lies?
She is also asking for help from these media outlets to get justice for Michael. Which is kinda twisted. Jackson family perfectly knows how stupid and unfair media is, why ask them for help?
[/quote][color=rgb(0, 10, 153) !important]latoyajackson (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson)[/color]La Toya Jackson[/color][/color]
@CNN (http://twitter.com/#!/CNN)@hlntv (http://twitter.com/#!/hlntv) Michael worked his entire life for his children. Please help us get justice! Dr. Murray is a very small piece of the puzzle.
Now the weird list.
1) CM ordered 15.5 litters of propofol during April 28th to June 10th and supposedly he used almost all of it on Michael.
2)If my vision has not been compromised, i think i saw am elephant on the desk next to the lady who was saying to witnesses "I swear to tell truth and nothing but the truth"
3)Please correct me if i'm wrong, but i've never herd before that Kenny Ortega would say that Michael was ill or not well before his "death". Now he says that Michael was not well, not right, he was cold on June 19th and Kenny had to put blanket around him and rub his feet. Ok now, what's the deal with EVERYBODY touching Michael's feet? I just don't get it, why they ALL have to do that?
4)As said by Paul Gongaware there were 31 concerts originally contracted. NOT 10 as everybody's saying. They sold 10 first shows just to see how people are gonna response, it was kind of promotional tool. After the success they sold the rest of the shows and only after that another 19 were added.
5) Shows were supposed to happen in the period of 9 months. 50 shows in 9 month i don't think that it's too much for Michael. And he wouldn't die from it.
6) People are saying that "oh they were so focused on getting this show done that they didn't care about Michael and didn't see that he was ill and needed help". Well if you are producing a show, THE FIRST THING YOU CARE ABOUT IS THE ARTIST. Because he is the main figure of the show, without him you can't do the show.
7) The voice recording from CM's iphone. WTF?? Was that? Just like bec said, what kind of evidence is that? It doesn't prove anything. I could play around and record with a similar voice, does it prove that i was drugged? NO. Plus as far as i know, when people are coming out of anesthesia, they talk nonsense, they ask stupid questions and say very odd things. Because their brain can't function properly. No way they can talk about something as deep as what Michael was talking about on that tape. JMO By the way, the recording was made at 9:05 am. 9+5=14=77
8) there were 7s all over the place. They had 2.5ml, 2.5 ml, 2.5 ml on the screen at some point. So here are your 777.
I am full of energy and i am so ready for this trial. Can't wait till tomorrow to hear next witnesses.
L.O.V.E to all! bearhug
[/quote]
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 27, 2011, 08:07:07 PM
Quote
About the DA saying Murray wasn't board certified in any state, that's new to me and I call BS. Does a doctor have to be board certified to have a liscense to practice? If yes then???
Answering my own question.
http://www.certifacts.org/faq.html#14
Quote
Why is a particular physician not board certified?
Physician board certification is a voluntary process that approximately 80 percent of doctors in the U.S. obtain. A physician is licensed by the state to "practice medicine and surgery," and medical board certification is not a requirement for licensure. Licensed physicians may practice in whatever medical disciplines interest them and can legally practice in that field of interest without obtaining a medical residency or fellowship. Board certification, however, means that a physician’s skills and knowledge in the specialty/subspecialty has been examined and meets standardized requirements by an ABMS Member Board. Additionally, some of the surgical specialties require one or more years of experience before physicians can take their board-certifying exams (the number of years varies according to each board). The physician in question may fit that category and may be working to satisfy the requirements for medical board certification. Most international medical graduates need to complete some required training in this country before they are able to take a particular board’s exam (if all the postgraduate training is completed in another country). Exceptions are made and vary with each board. (Some boards may accept Canadian and/or United Kingdom residencies. Call the ABMS Member Board for additional information.)
:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
Excuse my spelling errors
typing/QuoteFor this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory
I wonder if TS is purposely doing this to show that BOTH sides have great arguments because the trial/court is BOTH - hoax AND sting. I mean, why wouldn't it be? The hoax is already so multi-layered that the court would be too. Eliminating one would be counter productive and sloppy investigating, in my opinion.
As of right now, I tend to agree with you Andrea...I can see both sides being in on it! All I know for sure is I've never seen such a "sloppy" trial before...so far it reminds me more of "Romper Room " then it does "Court"...I can't believe that more of the media haven't picked up on this!...Oh wait...yes I can! lolol/
I am also thinking in the same way.
I also agree it is both a hoax court and a sting court. The hoax court is everything leading up to this day. MJ died (no he didn't, 1st LIE), memorial (beautiful but a LIE, no dead MJ), funeral (beautiful and lovely Liberian Girl Pics and Red shirt MJ on the program), investigations by LAPD (investigating a false death), planted evidence from MJ (payback is a BITCH. What goes around comes around), etc. The greatest show on earth.
The sting is what is going down now. The whole court system is the focus of the sting. The DA's office took the bait hook, line, and sinker. They are trying to convict an innocent man with fabricated evidence (left for them by MJ). Did they do a good job with this case? bangbang
@MissG-The thing on the wrist is a bracelet they put on patients to identify them.
Post by: a18wheelslady on September 27, 2011, 08:09:56 PM
Thank you TS for taking us all this way. What a great ride this has been.
My seat belt is fastened and I’m ready for the bumpy ride.
I love coming on in the morning and reading ------ it makes for a good day.
Love you all
Hugsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
bearhug
Off to go finish watching the trial I have taped
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 08:10:16 PM
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Reminds me of these images:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/saw.jpg)
(http://media02.hongkiat.com/horror-movie-posters/saw-movie-poster.jpg)
I find it extremely interesting that this pic never made it to the internet. Perhaps they just completed it. Perhaps it would have been TMI. Perhaps it was unnecessary or even detrimental to what we have been doing. Perhaps it was meant to shock those hoaxers who are secretly on the fence.
This pic of "dead MJ" :lol: is clearly the pic that was referenced in that article back in spring of this year that said autopsy pics would be shown at trial. This looks less like an autopsy pic and more staged. The quality and resolution if this pic is terrible and would never be used as evidence in a court case. It shows little in the way of evidence besides his face. It looks like a horror movie poster with the added graphics and the word "Homicide". The way the Prosecution used it as a background for their slide presentation was theatrical and dramatic, very Hollywood.
I think The Moon Is Dancing hit the nail on the head with this comparison on another thread:
(http://www.media.desicolours.com/2009/june/michael-hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy.jpg)
MJ's infamous hoax of 1987. Just because MJ was lying in the oxygen chamber doesn't mean any of the rest of the accompanying rhetoric about him was true.
Another interesting tidbit, the female Prosecutor requested specifically that Gongaware confirm part of his job description was that he "made the [artist's] creative vision reality". This hoax is certainly MJ's creative vision come to reality.
Post by: paula-c on September 27, 2011, 08:19:03 PM
! Shit ! :lol:
(http://media02.hongkiat.com/horror-movie-posters/saw-movie-poster.jpg)
Post by: paula-c on September 27, 2011, 08:27:37 PM
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/KC.jpg)
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
If anyone needs a good laugh, to help you get through the trial, take a look at the comments about the 777 bottles of propofol kicking around on the floor {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339)}.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol: ) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court). In the previous levels, I have not had time to answer many of the comments; and frequently the comments are off topic, or repetition from those who haven’t read everything in the thread. So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive; hopefully this will make things more efficient. bangbang bangbang
Let the hopping begin!
/judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/
My dear friend TS i think that these theories are going to develop as the trial unfolds ( now is that i am beginning to read all this ) The forum was very slow for my bangbang
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 27, 2011, 08:46:33 PM
Is it a dummy? I just don't understand! I knew this would happen though, its too predictable that the pictures will of course be hard to make out. And yet, I haven't heard any suspicion about the picture on hln. I've been watching all day. Why are we the only ones who question these type of things?
Post by: Mish1981 on September 27, 2011, 08:52:00 PM
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 09:09:10 PM
The non-believer fans are greatly the ones being caught in the trap that is visible thus far. They are acting differently by believing the media reports about Michael, calling for the prosecution of a man due to a visceral reaction fueled by reports they heard on the news but never looked into with an open mind, they are blaming any inconsistencies in logic presented in the media on greed and selfishness displayed by the Jackson Family rather then giving them the benefit of the doubt. They would never do this if they believed MJ were alive. In addition, we have seen some self described believers in the past few hours publicly declare that this can't be a hoax, he must be dead, based simply upon a photo they saw and it's accompanying description (hearsay).
The media are also the subject of a sting operation; they're having a field day with twisting the information in a mob-style game of on-air one-up'smanship in, who can condemn Murray the fastest, with conjecture and speculation. Jane Valdez is foaming at the mouth and that guy on HLN who clapped his hands and said "well!", you can tell has been waiting for this moment for as long as we have. He looks like a jackal, eyes shining, licking his chops, about to dive into the giant, bloody carcass of an elephant. He's never seen so much food! Sick.
The more they insist that Murray is so obviously guilty, and that Michael was so obviously a drug addict in need of help, the more they will look like complete morons in the end. It's perfect. It will be amusing to see them cling to the last shreds of their alternate reality in which The King of Pop is dead. They'll never willingly report it. They will be dragged kicking and screaming to the truth, long after it is obvious to their audience.
Post by: RK on September 27, 2011, 09:14:07 PM
Quote
Chernoff will present an addiction specialist, who will testify DR. ARNOLD KLEIN ADDICTED MICHAEL JACKSON TO DEMEROL.I've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 27, 2011, 09:26:03 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 09:29:34 PM
This IS the Greatest Show on Earth...and Mike is gonna come out shining more brightly than ever before....and in doing so he's going to change the world! TS, Back, and Front...you deserve a round of applause for a job VERY well done
/bravo/
As for the trial, if I had to choose hoax or sting, based on the first day (and the last 2 years worth of education we've had)....I'd have to say it's both. Actually, it's a joke...it's a complete kangaroo court as TS suggested. The 'hoax' part fits because it's premised on a dead man, who is actually alive. On that one point alone, there is a 'hoax' element to the trial. The 'sting' part....boy, it's gonna STING :lol:
Possible 'targets' of the sting:
First and foremost, the DA: If they are 'targets' and I really hope they are (they deserve it)...they will come out looking the worst lol. Their whole case is premised on a dead man that is alive LOL (and they're spending a shitload of taxpayers $ to 'prove' it...did u see their presentation compared to the defence lol). Did they not have the same access to info that we've had for the past 2 years?? It couldn't have been about resources, cause I just had to pay for an internet connection :lol: . My opening statement would've been..."The state moves to acquit on the grounds that Michael Jackson is alive." Actually, there wouldn't have even been an opening statement because 'truth' (which is what the DA should be after) would've led me to see that there was no need for a trial. If this is the case, then Tom Sneddon...payback truly is a bitch.
Media: this is self-explanatory (watch HLN for 10 minutes and you'll know why) and also well deserved.
Doctors - since when did having a medical licence put you above the law? And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. See what happens if you get caught with 15 litres of Propofol lol...again, does being a doctor put you above the law? If the first and most important oath a doctor takes cannot be trusted....then we're all screwed.
Pharmacies - if docs are the 'pushers'...the pharmacies are 'suppliers'. I have to go through a whole ID process to get some cough medicine at the pharmacy. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substance (or at least one that should raise eyebrows coming from a cardiologist) and sent it the doc's girlfriend's place lol. Whether they knowingly knew things were shady or whether they were just too stupid to follow up on the doc and the address....they are still guitly of not fulfilling their duty to society at minimum...an accomplice to a homicide at most.
Big Business - I'm still not 'clear' on AEG's role in all of this....I'm on the fence with them lol. They could very well be 'in' on it and that would make sense. But they also could be 'targets'. It was Kenny's email today to Randy Phillips that got me thinking that maybe it was the bait. How far will the Industry go to line their pockets...even when an artist's life is on the line? I can definitely see that going either way...the 'target' scenario is much more pleasing to the 'plot' (but not necessary in this STILL being the greatest show on earth!).
What does the world learn from all this? We are relying on governments that we can't trust, we are looking for 'truth' outta the mouths of morons (media), we have doctors who care more about their pockets than your health, and we're waiting on BIG business to use their resources to save us and our planet, while "they don't care about us"!!!
If that message doesn't wake people up...than I can fully understand God pulling the plug.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 09:35:10 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MichaelsAngel on September 27, 2011, 09:46:17 PM
Post by: voiceforthesilent on September 27, 2011, 09:55:26 PM
@bec I am hoping we will get more of this type of scenario, but I don't really think that if we do it will be as blatant. Not to start with anyway!
Thanks go to TNZ on twitter
(http://truenewszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/playroom.jpg)
According to Pearl Jr there was a toy elephant in the courtroom...wonder where it was?
Quote
Pearljr (http://twitter.com/#%21/Pearljr) Pearljr There is a toy elephant in the courtroom 6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Post by: Andrea on September 27, 2011, 09:59:43 PM
Larry King was on HLN a few minutes ago and said he'd met Michael a few times but he never appeared on Larry's show. Then he looked into the camera for a few seconds and his eyes screamed "Dave Dave!" to me. LOL.
Post by: looking4truth on September 27, 2011, 10:08:38 PM
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
2) Audio: I think this could be him simply acting. If it is him, I'm liking the lower voice but it does hurt to hear him that way. However, great acting! Or it is not him at all. In any event, I don't know how this can be used as evidence without any proof of it being him.
3) Media: A full on tabloid. Their behavior towards MJ pre and post June 25th is proof of this and I think this trial will be the epitome of that. Truly sick.
4) Possible Elephant: If there was a stuff elephant in the room, then this could be a nice way to imply that this whole trial will be turned into a circus (media circus). It also points to the elephants that were there at the memorial from the Greatest Show On Earth which could hold a double meaning that this trial will be the greatest show on earth because it will be shown to everyone on TV like a show. In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
Well that's it for now. I'm sad that I cannot view and study in real time nor barely can research it due to my computer issues as of late but thanks for the updates guys!
Post by: looking4truth on September 27, 2011, 10:13:24 PM
I agree that one of the targets of the sting is the media. The irony of this being many media outlets take the lead from TMZ who is "in on it". No verifying the "facts" elsewhere, just running with it. They figure TMZ is legit and reliable since they were the ones who broke the news of Michael's "death". Which of course was a lie. Crazy how lies = legitimacy in the media world. And watching HLN...wow those people like to yell and condemn.
You know what is funny about TMZ -- aren't they consider a tabloid, esp. before the MJ incident? So why would mega news corporations that we all supposed to rely on to get information about the world count on a TABLOID to get the truth? I don't understand. What happened to researching before reporting?
Post by: Mish1981 on September 27, 2011, 10:18:31 PM
I agree that one of the targets of the sting is the media. The irony of this being many media outlets take the lead from TMZ who is "in on it". No verifying the "facts" elsewhere, just running with it. They figure TMZ is legit and reliable since they were the ones who broke the news of Michael's "death". Which of course was a lie. Crazy how lies = legitimacy in the media world. And watching HLN...wow those people like to yell and condemn.
You know what is funny about TMZ -- aren't they consider a tabloid, esp. before the MJ incident? So why would mega news corporations that we all supposed to rely on to get information about the world count on a TABLOID to get the truth? I don't understand. What happened to researching before reporting?
That evidently went out with bell-bottoms.
Post by: Andrea on September 27, 2011, 10:19:19 PM
Geez, this is the worse time to have a slower computer. Ah well. So I wasn't able to view any of the trial. I'm hoping there will be some clips posted on youtube soon so I can review. From what I've read and seen and heard thus far, these are my observations.
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
2) Audio: I think this could be him simply acting. If it is him, I'm liking the lower voice but it does hurt to hear him that way. However, great acting! Or it is not him at all. In any event, I don't know how this can be used as evidence without any proof of it being him.
3) Media: A full on tabloid. Their behavior towards MJ pre and post June 25th is proof of this and I think this trial will be the epitome of that. Truly sick.
4) Possible Elephant: If there was a stuff elephant in the room, then this could be a nice way to imply that this whole trial will be turned into a circus (media circus). It also points to the elephants that were there at the memorial from the Greatest Show On Earth which could hold a double meaning that this trial will be the greatest show on earth because it will be shown to everyone on TV like a show. In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
Well that's it for now. I'm sad that I cannot view and study in real time nor barely can research it due to my computer issues as of late but thanks for the updates guys!
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
Post by: Andrea on September 27, 2011, 10:23:48 PM
I agree that one of the targets of the sting is the media. The irony of this being many media outlets take the lead from TMZ who is "in on it". No verifying the "facts" elsewhere, just running with it. They figure TMZ is legit and reliable since they were the ones who broke the news of Michael's "death". Which of course was a lie. Crazy how lies = legitimacy in the media world. And watching HLN...wow those people like to yell and condemn.
You know what is funny about TMZ -- aren't they consider a tabloid, esp. before the MJ incident? So why would mega news corporations that we all supposed to rely on to get information about the world count on a TABLOID to get the truth? I don't understand. What happened to researching before reporting?
It's funny and ironic. Funronic? LOL. Reporters have become lazy (for the most part), it's a copy and paste world now it seems. But won't these mega news people look so utterly foolish when the truth comes out? "But TMZ said so!" :lol:
Post by: Mish1981 on September 27, 2011, 10:27:28 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 27, 2011, 10:29:07 PM
In order to prove a sting court you would have to prove that someone were acting differently because they believe MJ is dead then they would if he were alive.
Bec-What you wrote is not the definition of a sting. It has nothing to do with whether people would act differently because they believe MJ is dead vs how they would act if they believed he was alive. A sting operation is a deceptive set up with bait and an opportunity to allow those who would normally commit a crime on any given day even if the sting operation wasn't in play.
MJ and the other people involved in the sting operation only gave the criminals an opportunity. The DA's office is obviously corrupt and they have been all along and this is why they are failing the test. They took the bait and they are trying to convict a man who is innocent. If that is going on with Murray think about how many people who aren't connected with money for a good lawyer go to jail because of shady DA offices? LA is overflowing with corruption.
The fans are acting as they would normally act in a case where they think their Idol has died.
The media is getting punked and this is MJ's vendetta to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment
Quote
In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informant or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person (see sting operation). So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_operation
Quote
In law enforcement, a sting operation is a deceptive operation designed to catch a person committing a crime. A typical sting will have a law-enforcement officer or cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing.TIAI May 1 Level 4
Ethical and legal concerns
Sting operations are fraught with ethical concerns over whether they constitute entrapment. Law-enforcement may have to be careful not to provoke the commission of a crime by someone who would not normally be inclined to do so. Additionally, in the process of such operations, the police often engage in the same crimes, such as buying or selling contraband, soliciting prostitutes, etc. In common law jurisdictions, the defendant may invoke the defense of entrapment.
Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, entrapment does not prohibit undercover police officers from posing as criminals or denying that they are police.Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from country to country. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Sting.jpg)
It’s time for another level. 8-)
We are now at the most important level: who is the focus of The Sting? Keep in mind the possibility that more than one person or entity is the focus.
Most specifically, though, we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation (or part of the investigation). Some have already proposed this possibility, while others have summarily dismissed it. As always, please do not dismiss any theory until it has been thoroughly debunked. And whatever theory you personally believe, try to debunk your own theory; many hoax investigators are still not doing this.
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS :lol: ), etc.
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 27, 2011, 10:34:16 PM
Mike accomplished just about everything he set his mind to...he has always wanted to out-do the success of Thriller. I'll admit, pre-June 25th...I didn't think he could (sorry Mike, should've had more faith in you 8-) ). Now, all I can say is this is gonna be EPIC!
And we...the 'believers', the 'chosen ones', the 'true fans'...whatever you wanna call us...we got to see the master at work, in the most intimate of ways.
Mike...you truly are a gift from God and one that I will cherish til my last breath...and beyond.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: looking4truth on September 27, 2011, 10:44:32 PM
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
"the elephant in the room" is what I meant with the "big elephant in the room". lolol/ Thanks for the correct saying. bearhug And this trial is already playing to media's sensationalism with the fake photo and the fake audio. There are so many other supposed real news stories that had the same amount of sensationalism but unfortunately people usually did not pick up on it because they believed the story as truth. I really pray Michael comes back with the loudest BAM that makes the world quiet for a second for the sheer volume of the sound makes everyone humble because Lord knows, that is what is needed in this day and age.
Post by: Andrea on September 27, 2011, 10:55:00 PM
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
"the elephant in the room" is what I meant with the "big elephant in the room". lolol/ Thanks for the correct saying. bearhug And this trial is already playing to media's sensationalism with the fake photo and the fake audio. There are so many other supposed real news stories that had the same amount of sensationalism but unfortunately people usually did not pick up on it because they believed the story as truth. I really pray Michael comes back with the loudest BAM that makes the world quiet for a second for the sheer volume of the sound makes everyone humble because Lord knows, that is what is needed in this day and age.
Sorry if I confused you about repeating the elephant in the room thing. For some reason I hadn't read the last sentence in your post properly before where you said pretty much what I said after you already did, LOL!
And about everything we've heard today - tomorrow will be an interesting day at work since there are people there who seem to go out of there way to try and convince me that Michael is dead. NOT going to happen!
Post by: suspicious mind on September 27, 2011, 11:16:20 PM
Geez, this is the worse time to have a slower computer. Ah well. So I wasn't able to view any of the trial. I'm hoping there will be some clips posted on youtube soon so I can review. From what I've read and seen and heard thus far, these are my observations.
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
2) Audio: I think this could be him simply acting. If it is him, I'm liking the lower voice but it does hurt to hear him that way. However, great acting! Or it is not him at all. In any event, I don't know how this can be used as evidence without any proof of it being him.
3) Media: A full on tabloid. Their behavior towards MJ pre and post June 25th is proof of this and I think this trial will be the epitome of that. Truly sick.
4) Possible Elephant: If there was a stuff elephant in the room, then this could be a nice way to imply that this whole trial will be turned into a circus (media circus). It also points to the elephants that were there at the memorial from the Greatest Show On Earth which could hold a double meaning that this trial will be the greatest show on earth because it will be shown to everyone on TV like a show. In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
Well that's it for now. I'm sad that I cannot view and study in real time nor barely can research it due to my computer issues as of late but thanks for the updates guys!
About the possible elephant... you know that term "the elephant in the room" - it's a metaphor for "an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed". That obvious truth is apparently only obvious to us.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
yep !
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 11:47:00 PM
Again, more wonderfully hoaxy verbiage; Murray's 6/25/09 11:15 email to the Ins. Co.; regarding MJ's health, 'all press reports are fallacious'. All press reports. I hear this to include all press reports, including reports of his death.
I don't believe either of these hoaxy statements contribute to the case in a way that made their inclusion into the Prosecutions opening statement necessary. Which leaves that they were chosen to be added by chance, simply coincidence.
As for the 'Dead MJ in hospital' pic- why are the sides blurred and gray?! Why is this picture so grainy when we live in the world of iPhones that take hi quality pictures? And most importantly- WHO THE HELL CHOPPED OFF MJ'S LEGS?!?!
Is it a dummy? I just don't understand! I knew this would happen though, its too predictable that the pictures will of course be hard to make out. And yet, I haven't heard any suspicion about the picture on hln. I've been watching all day. Why are we the only ones who question these type of things?
Don't I remember something about the famous pic of Elvis in the coffin having been taken by someone with a hidden camera at the funeral? That the original Elvis pic has blurred sides where the camera was partially concealed in a bag or a box (can't remember). I ask because the sides being blurred gives the impression the pic is a view through a cracked open door or vertical blind of some sort. Further highlighting the "forbidden view" feel to the pic.
If it's a dummy I think it's the second hoax pic in which this dummy was used.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulancefull.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/ambulanceleavemealonedummylarge.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/mjdeadonstretcher.jpg)
It's possible at least one leg had to be cut off the dummy since it was in a knee bent position that wouldn't work for these scenes.
1) Photo: FAKE! As others have mentioned, his proportions are all off especially his legs. I think it is a dummy or photo-shopped. I say this for a few reasons. One, his legs...either photo-shopped to appear shorter or literally "saw" off proving its a dummy. Two, what his trainer aka the Hulk said days after June 25th, that MJ loved to pull pranks like putting dummies in ambulances. Three, the lack of clarity on the tamper and clean versions of the photo proves to me that there is really no clear way of knowing if it is MJ or not and is permissible to be used fin court. By the way, can a piece of evidence like that photo be used during opening arguments as a backdrop? I never saw that before but then again, I was only a juror during civil cases so it could be different with criminal ones. That in itself seems totally against trial procedure.
Lou Ferigno dropped a big clue on us with that little anecdote. They may have been many truths that were told just under the surface all along in this hoax. We are finding more of them every day as we gain hindsight.
Another weird thing about this photo is the stretcher appears to be at the very lowest (closest to the ground) setting. I find that odd. It is noteworthy to mention that it is not a collapsible stretcher.
The longer I look at this pic, the more apparent it is to me that the legs appear to be shortened or missing entirely and the bulk is made up of bunched bed linens. It is not just the angle that accounts for the distortion. The foot of the mattress is puffed up as if it has no weight bearing on that portion. Can you see? At the foot of the stretcher, look at the bottom line of the mattress in comparison to the top surface line of the stretcher frame. The mattress angles up, characteristic of a cushion bearing no weight, when that's very close to where his feet should be resting.
Was this a pic that the police took? Is this really the pic shown in court because I could barely see it on my TV.
Do the pictures look like the staged (photoshopped) ambulance picture? The hair difference could be because he had no wig on or he did have a wig on but changed it from curly to straight before he staged the photo using himself or it may be a wax dummy. They all look staged to me and a wax dummy was used.
[/quot
1- what´s on with the wirst
2- what´s on with Michael legs...or...where are Michael´s legs?
3- looks like an image taken from a video camera
4- reminds me of the "leaf pattern" face
[/font][/font]
Yeah what about the wrist. It's not realistic looking.
If the stretcher pic is proved a fake (staged) then the DA has to be in on it.
Unless of course the DA uses the same excuse Diane Dimond did to get out of the slander lawsuit MJ brought on her after the 2005 trial; that the information was supplied by the source. The DA is simply acting on information they deem credible from sources they deem credible. They were supplied this pic by a source they deem credible, and they used it to help build the case against Conrad Murray. Bad judgement is not illegal, even if you are a DA employee. An FBI sting on the CA DA's office would need to prove the DA's office was conducting itself illegally. I don't see that the DA has broken any laws in the course of what we know so far of this investigation. If the DA's office was supplied this pic in a misleading fashion (planted, submitted, represented as authentic to the investigation and from official autopsy report by the unnamed, unidentified hoax team for sting court purposes), any case built on that with the intent to prove that the DA conducted itself illegally stands on shaky ground with entrapment.
Lastly, I might be seeing things but I swear there's a big 7 on the left side, just above the foot of the stretcher in this pic geek/
Post by: bec on September 27, 2011, 11:58:31 PM
Quote
Another weird thing about this photo is the stretcher appears to be at the very lowest (closest to the ground) setting. I find that odd. It is noteworthy to mention that it is not a collapsible stretcher.
The longer I look at this pic, the more apparent it is to me that the legs appear to be shortened or missing entirely
Observation from my own post. Both the stretcher and Michael laying upon it appear to have shortened legs. Short legs that would equal a short walk? The truth, in contrast to what we see in this pic, can run a marathon?
Or is it that the death story has been cut off at the knees bounce/ 8-)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 12:06:15 AM
I have this question.. CM got all that propofol in the month of April, but he was not hired to be doctor until May. So who was he buying all this propofol for? Not Michael's doctor yet. Remember AEG didn't do the "DEAL" until May.
@airieslady - you have a good point.
TS as you are the on responsable with counting the bottles - maybe you have something to say about this?
Post by: Grace on September 28, 2011, 12:07:45 AM
Back to propofol, the common name there is KLEIN.
Isn't it interesting that the name "KLEIN" is of German origin meaning "small" and that English natives would not only get confused over the placement of vowels writing it erroneously "KLIEN" but would also pronounce the name like "CLEAN"?
Originally, the name "KLEIN" is being spoken as "CLINE" which happens to be an expression indicating
Quote
the process of linguistic change in which a content word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_word) changes to a function word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_word) or a grammatical affix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affix) is depicted as a cline of grammaticalisation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cline_%28linguistics%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cline_%28linguistics%29)
In short (very roughly): "CLINE" means the process of binding formerly free lexemes into a group of dependencies while at the same time increasing "interactive" funtionality and decreasing semantic relevance.
Semantics is the study of meaning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics)
Sharing more blabla does not make the word more relevant or more important.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 12:08:32 AM
Where are you hiding Sou geek/ ?
Come on, it's not the same without you :?.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 12:11:56 AM
And back to the photo. Shouldn´t exhibits be shown numbered and unaltered?Normally the evidence or exhibits would be numbered however the pic that the DA used as his background for his presentation does not qualify as evidence per the judges words before the opening statements.
From my earlier post.
Quote
Judge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.
This is so the defense can plant reasonable doubt that it wasn't Murray who caused MJ's death. If another doc was giving him drugs prior to Murray taking care of MJ and Murray wasn't aware of that then he may be found not responsible, NOT GUILTY.QuoteChernoff will present an addiction specialist, who will testify DR. ARNOLD KLEIN ADDICTED MICHAEL JACKSON TO DEMEROL.I've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement.
And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substanceAt the time when Murray purchased the Propofol is was not illegal nor was it considered a controlled substance. I found info on this and posted it in one of the other levels. I will look for the info later. What I found said that all it took to get the Propofol was a licensed Dr. or a script. /cook/
Post by: Coco on September 28, 2011, 12:16:18 AM
This morning gave me the perfect opening statement (although significantly less formal then you might expect). Thank you TMZ for this quote:QuoteSources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
Maybe he meant “mess up” as in he’ll say something he didn’t mean to, or get mixed up. Or the nerves will get to him and he'll make a mess of what he means to say.
Then again… I suppose all he has to do is tell the truth. (How do you get mixed up with the truth?)
Post by: _Anna_ on September 28, 2011, 12:37:38 AM
In order to prove a sting court you would have to prove that someone were acting differently because they believe MJ is dead then they would if he were alive.
The non-believer fans are greatly the ones being caught in the trap that is visible thus far. They are acting differently by believing the media reports about Michael, calling for the prosecution of a man due to a visceral reaction fueled by reports they heard on the news but never looked into with an open mind, they are blaming any inconsistencies in logic presented in the media on greed and selfishness displayed by the Jackson Family rather then giving them the benefit of the doubt.
What I see all the time and I need to say this is- it's not the media alone, it's almost the whole Jackson family who said repeatedly Michael was murdered, he's dead. If only media lies, then why does the family repeatedly say he was murdered? It's NOT the media. The family says this. If it's to prove that media lies, then why also the family? The media has to be exposed as liars, not the family. And so far the family says he was murdered. Even if you don't read a single paper or don't have a TV in your home, you read La Toya and Jermaine's books where they say he was murdered.
People say all the time that they believe what media tells them. But in fact it's the Jackson family who says he's dead and was murdered all the time. If you can find a logical and possible explanation please tell me, because the problem is not about the media for me. But the FAMILY.
The non-believers don't believe the media, but the family.
Post by: bec on September 28, 2011, 12:48:54 AM
The media doesn't lie so much as fail to check their sources, and report only the surface truth, never looking deeper to get the real story. Built upon these half-truth, they destroy lives and direct the course of humanity through "democratic" elections and passed legislation. In contrast, Michael and the Jackson Family are launching and helping to perpetuate an Illusion that is part of a performance art reality live action movie. It will all come out, the truth that is, in the end. They are actors in this performance. Once it is over, that will be understood. Michael is teaching a lesson about the power of the media over the way we form opinions and view the world. The best lessons are sometimes the hardest lessons. Michael will reveal the truth in the end, not the media.
Just see it through, Anna. It will all make sense when it's over.
Post by: CaptainEO on September 28, 2011, 12:54:18 AM
P.S. The number one thing that got me to start visiting this site was Dave Dave... I thought for sure that was Michael. It was like being resurrected.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 28, 2011, 12:58:18 AM
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
Reminds me of what Judge Michael Pastor said at the end about not discussing it with anyone and not going on any social media sties or forums.
P.S Welcome CaptainEO, enjoying the trial so far?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 01:03:12 AM
:? :cry: :?
Murray crying was weird - TS can you explain this? I think you can, as you suport the murder court now. He killed Michael by accident, he is very sorry and feels burdened with guilt, or he cried because he pittys himself.
But prosecution's presentation was somehow unproper, with that blurred pic on the background. Like they wanted to create drama in the courtroom.
A real trial should be based ONLY ON REAL EVIDENCE, you know like fingerprints, DNA tests, medical examinations and so on. And real photos.
The opening statements were not presenting that sort of evidence. But it's only the beginning.
With much pain in my heart, I am waiting to see the exhibits each part has.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 28, 2011, 01:07:28 AM
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
Post by: CaptainEO on September 28, 2011, 01:08:28 AM
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
Reminds me of what Judge Michael Pastor said at the end about not discussing it with anyone and not going on any social media sties or forums.
P.S Welcome CaptainEO, enjoying the trial so far?
Hello. Yes, I enjoy reading through these posts very much.
Post by: CaptainEO on September 28, 2011, 01:11:49 AM
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm obsessed about Conrad's prior association with Michael. Seems that he didn't exist before all of this. Are there any photos of the two of them together?
Post by: bec on September 28, 2011, 01:12:22 AM
Have you happen to have read any of TS's updates in your visits to the forum? You'll find some of what you're looking for there http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1440)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 01:15:08 AM
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
Post by: CaptainEO on September 28, 2011, 01:16:37 AM
1) Dave Dave, come on; that was Michael. I mean, that was him, right?
2) Janet asked why she doesn't cry over loss... she smiles... "It's a survival tactic" or something along those lines...
If one of my siblings suddenly passed away, I'd break down in tears every time their name was brought up... and I'm a big macho dude!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 01:19:07 AM
I don't want to go so easy over this, IMO emotions/reactions are clues as well.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 28, 2011, 01:21:50 AM
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
I agree it seemed like real emotion about something, don't know what though but he just broke down, even though he is playing a role, the feelings are real, like when people say things about him, to him, the spotlight is on him, if I was him and were playing a role I'd probably break down too...
@CaptainEO no pic or video with CM and MJ...you would think there would be at least one, but I think it's because Murray is representing MJ in the trial so MJ doesn't want us to see them as two separate entities or maybe he wants us to think he is really literally Murray, don't know though.
Post by: MJonmind on September 28, 2011, 01:24:18 AM
Could Murray be an FBI agent, also skilled in acting (emotions and all)?
Could the DA talking about the "illusion the next day" have been given the words to say by some "higher" authority, so that he still is unaware? But I'm pretty sure that Murray is in on the hoax from day 1, since he's a major player, KEY man.
And that’s why Michael had to build all the believable details around the death story with the family so adamant that MJ was really dead, had enemies and was murdered. EVERYTHING had to be very real and graphic so all the target groups would take the bait and they did hook, line and sinker.
Quote
AndreaOh man! Love it! :lol:
Larry King was on HLN a few minutes ago and said he'd met Michael a few times but he never appeared on Larry's show. Then he looked into the camera for a few seconds and his eyes screamed "Dave Dave!" to me. LOL.
Quote
Looking4truthThat’s so good! Blindness is like a veil over the eyes. We're amazed the non-believer fans can't see what we are seeing. They have the same access as us! The human brain is funny that way. It's seems people could be manipulated to believe almost anything with the right story-telling and props.
In addition, it can point to the common phrase with the big elephant in the room that Michael is really alive but no one is stating that in the courtroom at the moment.
Quote
AndreaIn a way it is manipulating minds just like the coverage for 911 pounded the official story into our brains with the graphic images. This time for good and not evil.
And how many times have I heard that audio and seen the "death" pic now? It's being pounded into everyone's brains and it seems that's what people will take away from day one of the trial. A "doctored" photo to make it look "scary" (is it scary for you?) along with Michael's "haunting" voice. Thriller II ladies and gentlemen!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 01:30:08 AM
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
I agree it seemed like real emotion about something, don't know what though but he just broke down, even though he is playing a role, the feelings are real, like when people say things about him, to him, the spotlight is on him, if I was him and were playing a role I'd probably break down too...
@CaptainEO no pic or video with CM and MJ...you would think there would be at least one, but I think it's because Murray is representing MJ in the trial so MJ doesn't want us to see them as two separate entities or maybe he wants us to think he is really literally Murray, don't know though.
I agree, I had the feeling like he was feeling sorry for himself. He tried for a while to hold back the tears, but finally he couldn't. Maybe we should review what the lawyer was talking about when Conrad cried, it must have been something about what the lawyer said.
Post by: CaptainEO on September 28, 2011, 01:32:24 AM
Thanks for the welcomes!
Post by: curls on September 28, 2011, 01:35:45 AM
I'm going to have to make some choices on where to spend my time over the coming days/weeks while the trial is on.
I want to watch as much live coverage as I possibly can, that's top priority - to see and hear at first hand what's going on. I need to work and sleep - had only 5 hours last night and that's not going to be sustainable!
I honestly don't know how I'm going to manage keeping up with the forum as well, so if I'm quiet it's not because I've left or stopped believing - if anything, yesterday's action in court has strengthened my faith - it had MJ's stamp all over it - scary photo, chilling audio, the big illusion - Thriller II!
Keep the faith everyone - and keep watching!
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 28, 2011, 01:53:13 AM
Gina he could be crying about anything;
1. Acting
2. Stressed, maybe the hoax has taken it's toll
3. He wanted to sleep and was bored to death
He wasn't acting IMO, his emotion was real. The best hoax-explanation I can come up with is that he is a sensitive person and felt sorry for Michael being forced to fake his death... not convincing I know crash/ .
He cried because he felt emotional about something. What that "something" is - maybe our pshychologists can tell us more. Gema? Allforlove?
I agree it seemed like real emotion about something, don't know what though but he just broke down, even though he is playing a role, the feelings are real, like when people say things about him, to him, the spotlight is on him, if I was him and were playing a role I'd probably break down too...
@CaptainEO no pic or video with CM and MJ...you would think there would be at least one, but I think it's because Murray is representing MJ in the trial so MJ doesn't want us to see them as two separate entities or maybe he wants us to think he is really literally Murray, don't know though.
I agree, I had the feeling like he was feeling sorry for himself. He tried for a while to hold back the tears, but finally he couldn't. Maybe we should review what the lawyer was talking about when Conrad cried, it must have been something about what the lawyer said.
I think it was around the time the defence attorney was talking about MJ and CM's relationship, how they were friends etc. and about what the jury would hear from the defence in the coming days.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 28, 2011, 02:34:15 AM
Post by: WhiteNight on September 28, 2011, 03:28:28 AM
Well…Anyway…
Sorry if this has been mentioned before somewhere else and I’m also sorry if this is the wrong place.
BUT….
Did anyone else notice the V for Vendetta presence on Showbiz Tonight in the interview portion that was done on the outside of the courtroom with two individuals from opposing sides? One was a Michael Jackson fan and one was a supporter of Conrad Murray>> (I believe that this was the same man that Pearl Jr. interviewed in one of her videos).
There was a BIG poster in the background that was professionally done. This poster featured half of the V mask and half of Michael’s face. They were placed together side by side to reveal a complete face - one side being Michael’s face and the other side being Vs face. The poster was black and the face was in color. The bottom of the poster featured red font that stated ‘This Is It’. There were words at the top but I couldn’t make them out. I DVRed it so I’ll go back and see if I can figure out what the top of the poster says.
And then there was a V Mask resting right below this big poster.
Before the reporter started talking to them, the camera panned around to give the viewer an idea as to how many people were outside the courtroom. After that, the camera man zoomed in toward where the individuals that were going to be interviewed were. (Yes they were next to each other) And as he did this, it seemed like the camera man made sure that we would see the poster and the mask as the reporter began to interview them. She spoke with the Michael Jackson fan first.
All through the interview with the MJ fan, the mask was in view at the bottom corner of the screen.
This just had to be deliberate in my opinion. There were plenty of fans and even places that could have been chosen. Why film in an area where such things that relate to the hoax happen to be in the background?
I’ll try to find video and/or photos of this if I can. If I find anything, I’ll be sure to add it to this post.
As for the topic of this redirect…I personally believe that this is both a hoax and sting court. Most of what I have observed in the coverage of the trial has already been addressed so I don’t want to be repetitive. XD
I just thought the ‘V’ clue-drop was too ironic and amusing to ignore. LOL
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 06:20:08 AM
4 pages and Souza is not here yet?
Where are you hiding Sou geek/ ?
Come on, it's not the same without you :?.
LOL, here I am. I am sorry, but I have to split myself in 3 parts lately. The trial, the forum and something else I am trying to read up on. Besides that, I have to sleep, eat and work as well. So that's why I am a little late.
@TS: You are going to defend the murder theory again? lolol/ You brave man! Or do you like it being kicked in the ass? Because I will be standing right behind you with my boots! Nice hint on the 777 bottles of propofol by the way, since that was a huge part of the prosecution's opening statements. I was singing to myself "777 bottles of propofol on the ground, 777 bottles of prop'... etc. Didn't make it to the end though, which was Ed's fault. Man, how boring is he? Poor Murray, I would have fired him and hired Mesereau.
But anyways. Since you yourself kinda said already that this is a kangaroo court (which means nothing more than HOAX court), you will be having a hard time with me while defending your murder theory. So now is the time to back down, otherwise: let the battle begin! lolol/
I agree for the most part with bec and partially with Imconvinced, I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.
The reason I don't believe the sting is against the DA/prosecution team, is because for a personal vendetta, Mike (as far as I am aware) did not have any problems/issues with this team. Besides that, if this sting would be against the prosecution and they would be called out as a team wanting to hang an innocent man by all means, you can prosecute them and that's it. It will not change the system in my opinion, because the media will be all over it and make sure you will think this is a one time event. So I don't see the point in that.
On the other hand, if you have all parties involved, except the media (and of course as bec pointed out some or maybe even most of the people in the courtroom doing their regular jobs) and they will present a case that is full of shit, like we have been seeing for 2+ years now, and the media will not do their homework and trying to convince you of Murray's guilt by siding with the prosecution in spite of evidence that Murray is innocent, you will be able to make a point. It is the media that plants the idea in your head whether or not someone is guilty. I know that they mostly just cover high profile cases, but still they are able through these cases to give the viewers a general idea of how to decide whether or not a person is guilty. Those viewers will eventually turn up as jurors in a case and will have that printed in their minds. It is not about the real evidence, it is about the way they present a case. If you tell a lie big enough, the public will believe it.
In my opinion, the only reason Mike won in 2005, was because he had a lawyer that was so damn good, that the jury had no other choice than to find him not guilty. If he had Ed Chernoff as a lawyer, he would have been a dead man. NOT because he was guilty, but because he wouldn't have a lawyer that could make the jury see that the prosecution was lying.
There was a huge contrast in those opening statements that I noticed. The prosecution was overall convincing (not to us, but you get me), had a well layed out story and the DA was well spoken and handsome. It has been scientifically proven that you can convince people more easily if you are handsome and well spoken. Then we have short, less handsome and stuttering Ed. Be honest here: did you all follow him as well as the DA? I saw in chat how people clicked away and said it was too boring to look at. I agree, but that doesn't mean that he didn't have a convincing story. I was very tired at the moment, so I will have to listen to his statement again, but as I remember, Ed tried to explain how propofol works and how Murray couldn't have killed Michael the way the prosecution want to believe you. He said the word 'science' more than once, making a point that you should look at the actual scientific evidence, instead of just the emotional 'Murray killed a drug addict who needed help, he was only 50 years old, look at him laying there on that trolley" kind of talk. Next to that, he even gave a hint that MJ isn't dead at all, by saying he first swallowed 8 pills that could take 6 people out, before he injected/swallowed the propofol. If he was out, how could he have taken the fatal dose of propofol? He would have been asleep for hours. But the public will side with the prosecution, because they will play with your emotions, just like the media does. MJ is the poor little victim, Murray is the doctor from hell, like Gavin was the poor little victim in 2005, and MJ the babysitter from hell. But Sneddon was darn ugly and stupid as well, so luckily their plan didn't work back then. But you can see how the media backed Sneddon even more when they realized they had a huge lion to fight (Mesereau).
It's people like Diane Demon, Nancy Disgrace and all other filthy reporters, that should be the target of the sting. They will plant the "Murray is guilty" verdict in the heads of the jurors. Those jurors DO watch the coverage of the case at night, there is no escape. The media doesn't search for evidence, they will try to dig up dirt on Murray to show you. Stuff that wouldn't be allowed in court, but what can be shown on TV. I always think of the movie 'A Time To Kill' where Matthew (the lawyer) says things in court he is not allowed to. He gets slapped for it, but he doesn't care, because he SAID it and the jury HEARD it. It is printed in their minds, even though they may not take it into consideration for the verdict, but he knows they will. That is exactly what the media does. Whatever they say about Murray, the jury may not take it into consideration for the verdict, but the will, because they HEARD it. And it takes a damn good lawyer to 'deprogram' the jury. Not everyone is rich enough to pay for their own 'Tom Mesereau' and that is why IMO many innocent people are condemned, in spite of strong evidence that they are innocent.
As for the picture that was shown: that's a BS picture. Why is the quality so bad? Looks like it's 50 years old. Where are his legs? We all know Mike has stelts, did they cut them off? He probably posed for it, before they photoshopped it to make it look like this. If you are worried about this picture, I really don't get how you made it this far, because I have seen way worse things. TMZ pointed out how the prosecution is working on the public's emotion:
Quote
MICHAEL JACKSON'S DEATH PHOTO
Frightening Intentions?
9/27/2011 1:05 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-main.jpg)
It seems the prosecution wanted to give the Michael Jackson death photo a murky, gritty treatment before it was presented in court this morning -- because it was clearly touched up to look as daunting as possible.
It appears the photo is NOT the original pic -- because now it includes a tattered border, a morgue-esque green hue ... and the word "Homicide" printed over MJ's body in a grainy, police-style font.
The prosecution used the photo as the background for a slide-show presentation in court.
Compare the pic to a cleaned up version of the photo (below) -- is the murky photo more likely to shake the jury?
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)
We gotta ask ...
Prosecution's image
Misleading 63%
Fair 37%
Total Votes: 55,264
That tape recording is epic. It reminded me of that interview in (I think) '89 where Mike talks about that intro for 'I just can't stop loving you'. Where he said he recorded that when he was in bed. Like Jermaine said in his book, MJ tape recorded almost everything, I bet he recorded this himself too. Is it really him? Yes I think it is and I wonder how many times he had to start again because he couldn't stop laughing.
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray. Also the talk of the '777 bottles of propofol' was interesting, since TS clearly wanted to point that out. (this is by the way not relevant. Even if Murray ordered that much, you still have to prove that he injected it all into MJ, which seems HIGHLY unlikely, since a waaaaaaay smaller dose would be lethal already.
:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
Again the prosecution playing with the jury/public. As Imconvinced figured out, it's not even required to be board certified. So it's merely to put Murray in a bad light. People will think he's not a doctor, but this information doesn't say that. Manipulation.
:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
Ding dong again!
:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
Interesting, I missed that. Need to rewatch.
:idea: Two paramedics pictured, as we discovered already, one white, one black. Neither paramedic in the ambulance pic was black so what's that all about?
There allegedly was a third, because someone had to drive. Do we know who that was? I guess we will find out later, but that might be something to keep an eye on.
:idea: Stretcher pic: He's not bald, doesn't look old, or emaciated, and certainly not like a cancer patient. He looks exactly like Michael Jackson. What's he wearing? It appears to have sleeves. It is a hospital snuggy? He appears to be wearing what might be a watch. Where is the endo-tracheal tube? The autopsy states it is still present and in place. It is certainly present in the ambulance pic. Who captioned it "Homicide"? It's a manslaughter trial.
I don't see the tube either, so if this picture was taken in the hospital, I would like to know who got it out and put it back in for the coroner (which is mission impossible with a corpse by the way. Even if you would get it back in, there would be terrible damage to the throat.)
:idea: Chernoff: in regards to MJ, "He did an act... he did an act" repetitively stressed.
Probably because he's an ACTor. :lol:
:idea: Chernoff: in regards to helping the jury understand the evidence, "We will provide you The Sign." Love it. Little TS shout out there.
Damn, I missed that too. Thanks for the shout out TS. ;)
Okay, I will be back after reviewing/reading the opening statements again, plus the testimonies. I did love Kenny's though, he's such a sweet guy. And he said so many interesting things about the reasons Michael wanted to do this and how he cancelled everything else to be able to be a part of this. I will get back on that later as well.
ps. My guess for level 7: I think the trial will indeed end somewhere around or before 10/28 (which is exactly 2 years after TII) and my guess is that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween) because that date will be EXACTLY 333 weeks after June 13, 2005, plus the obvious: It's Halloween. Court will not be closed: http://www.courts.ca.gov/holidays.htm I think level 7 will be about guessing/discussing the verdict.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 06:23:40 AM
Hey guys! I’m still here and I still believe. I’m not going anywhere. But I don’t really get on here like before because the forum is soooooo damn slow! I mean no insult to Souza or Mo. I just wish that it was as fast as it was when we had the old version. I like the new look and everything else that has been done but it takes forever for pages to load. I would say that it’s my computer but I don’t have this problem anywhere else that I go on the internet. *sigh*
FYI: Mo is not a part of this website anymore and the problem with the forum yesterday was due to extreme traffic overload. Too many people accessing it at the same time caused it to crash at times, so we probably need a larger hosting plan. We are looking into that right now. It has nothing to do with the new forum, because I can tell you with absolute certainty that the old one would have crashed even sooner and longer. So you need to give us some time and credit here.
Post by: glovelove on September 28, 2011, 06:27:15 AM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 06:28:37 AM
Post by: Adi on September 28, 2011, 06:53:04 AM
Michael Jackson has the world's media eating out of his beautiful hands and the world is lapping it up!
What has gone down today has strengthened my resolve and understanding even more (if that is possible) that Michael is alive and controlling this whole amazing, wonderful, incredible adventure. I am sad that so many people will have missed out on this incredible journey that we have experienced together all these months.....or those who might possibly only manage to join in it with us at the end...like walking in at the end of an amazing film, watching the incredible end scenes but missing out on all the middle parts that built you up, made you understand and really got you there.
I have only managed to get on the forum tonight ...time zone differences meant the trial started here in Australia in the middle of the night and went through during my work day. I tried to sneak peaks on and off at work of the live stream. The morning "news" programs here were abuzz with the "death" picture and the "drugged recording" and when I first saw the picture on the news this morning my initial reaction was a brief F*cK!!!!! and then it was a gut wrenching burst of laughter.
What the hell happened to Michael's legs between the 24th June and the 25th June?....did someone shrink them...he looks like a body on a couple of halved popsticks...and as for the paramedics not recognising him and that he was bald???????...well it does look like his face and he has hair, so :lol: :lol: :lol:
Even my husband who think's Mj is dead had a look of disbelief on his face....that sort of look like "holy sh*t.....maybe she has been right all along" type of look. He really didn't even try to argue against me when I started saying how staged the pic was and how scripted the recording was.
Now I have caught up on everything that has happened today I am going for a hoax court mostly...but I am also going with some type of sting in there as well. I am still thinking about "the who/what" of the sting and I have some ideas in my head and am feeling it is the crappy,vile, parasitic tabloid media...but also something else......I am hoping that the coming days of the trial may shed more light on that aspect.
Keep the Faith. This is no worse than the Memorial, the Funeral, the ambulance picture or the autopsy report....just a hell of a lot more entertaining!!!! (so far)
I have no doubt Michael is going to serve up ALOT worse things to test us as believers, afterall this isn't only a journey/lesson for those that think Michael has died...it is also to test us...my thinking is we have to steel ourselves for worse to come...remember today was just the 1st day and as any good movie/theatrical performance/thriller...it gets much more scary before it gets better :shock:
The proportions of this are now just blowing my mind in what I think Michael has achieved.
Michael Jackson - I am in AWE (even more than I was before)!!! respect/
Post by: PureLove on September 28, 2011, 07:04:19 AM
The bumpy ride is on and the first day gave me different emotions. I must say that the trial was boring till Kenny popped up (on stage). geek/ What I realized was, the Head Prosecutor used many "Magic acts, Illusions" words when he was asking his questions to Kenny. And this made me ask myself, does he know? suspicious// And the way Kenny described illusion was interesting because he said the illusion was, Michael was going to DISAPPEAR in the bed and APPEAR again on the RISING cherry picker! And we know that Michael "disappeared" ("died") on his bed and he will be appearing back again and RISE! It was like Kenny was describing how Michael disappeared and will be appearing like a Magic trick in this hoax!
Kenny also told about his movie plans which we know we're already in one of them. :mrgreen: And Kenny was adorable when he was pissed at Ed. :lol: I love him.
The picture of Michael they showed is just a GRAPHIC picture. It's not him of course. The voice record, I don't know if it's him or not but he was still talking about saving children. Clearing Michael's name and show the world how much he loves and cares for the children. ;)
There was an elephant in the room and I saw no other toys.
The outfit of the Jackson family. What stood out to me at first was, Katherine's outfit. She was wearing an outfit with DOTS on. Was she trying to say CONNECT THE DOTS?
Also the proforol bottle pictures reminded me of one of the posts TS made just a couple of days ago. The bottles on the wall! They were ON THE WALL really TS. :mrgreen: I wanted to break them one by one. :lol:
Post by: shamz on September 28, 2011, 07:07:43 AM
Post by: Mish1981 on September 28, 2011, 07:41:14 AM
And back to the photo. Shouldn´t exhibits be shown numbered and unaltered?Normally the evidence or exhibits would be numbered however the pic that the DA used as his background for his presentation does not qualify as evidence per the judges words before the opening statements.
From my earlier post.QuoteJudge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.This is so the defense can plant reasonable doubt that it wasn't Murray who caused MJ's death. If another doc was giving him drugs prior to Murray taking care of MJ and Murray wasn't aware of that then he may be found not responsible, NOT GUILTY.QuoteI've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement..And back to the photo. Shouldn´t exhibits be shown numbered and unaltered?Normally the evidence or exhibits would be numbered however the pic that the DA used as his background for his presentation does not qualify as evidence per the judges words before the opening statements.
From my earlier post.QuoteJudge said opening statements are not arguements or evidence. Opening statements are what the lawyers expect the evidence to prove, the end result.This is so the defense can plant reasonable doubt that it wasn't Murray who caused MJ's death. If another doc was giving him drugs prior to Murray taking care of MJ and Murray wasn't aware of that then he may be found not responsible, NOT GUILTY.QuoteChernoff will present an addiction specialist, who will testify DR. ARNOLD KLEIN ADDICTED MICHAEL JACKSON TO DEMEROL.I've always leant towards hoax court, but if it's both, could Arnie be the target of the sting. The finger pointing has already begun in Chernoff's long winded opening statement.And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substanceAt the time when Murray purchased the Propofol is was not illegal nor was it considered a controlled substance. I found info on this and posted it in one of the other levels. I will look for the info later. What I found said that all it took to get the Propofol was a licensed Dr. or a script. /cook/And regardless of what happened in that room on June 25th...there is no dispute that the contents of the room include a substance that was obtained illegally. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substanceAt the time when Murray purchased the Propofol is was not illegal nor was it considered a controlled substance. I found info on this and posted it in one of the other levels. I will look for the info later. What I found said that all it took to get the Propofol was a licensed Dr. or a script. /cook/
What I don't understand about this is Klein isn't going to testify to rebuttal what any of that. Meaning, the defense and prosecution can say what ever they want and there isn't anyone (unless they are called to testify, but they can't do that unless they were already on the witness list) who can do or say otherwise. How is that fair? I don't care if it's Klein or someone else. My thought, even if they have a professional come in and say that it was Klein who made Michael addicted it should be considered speculation. Just my thought though.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 07:46:16 AM
As for the DA being part of the hoax or a sting 'target'...I can see both as a possibility....there's been good arguments for both. What's important to remember, IMO, is that a 'sting' doesn't necessarily seek to uncover laws broken...as TS pointed to, the focus of the FBI is 'corruption,' and to a lesser extent, 'manipulation'. The media have broken no laws, per se, over the years when they slandered Mike (i.e. the Demon, Batshit got away with their evilness because there are loopholes in the law). Likewise, a lawyer who presents something as 'evidence' without authenticating it...can easily find protection under the 'law' in saying that they were trusting their source(s) and/or believed the 'evidence' to be legit. In that sense, the 'law' works in their favor...hence, when all is said and done, they have not broken any 'laws' in the eyes of the system. That a lawyer, during opening statements, can present just about anything under the sun and insinuate that it is 'truth' (or why present it?)...without having to prove authenticity...leaves a VAST amount of room for 'corruption' and 'manipulation.' THIS is the judicial system...a system in place to determine the fate of individuals....where those who are called upon to pass judgement (the jurors) are manipulated by lawyers (often on both sides), while ONLY been shown what the court decides is relevant (which is usually about 10% of the actual 'truth'). And we call that 'justice'?
Likewise, Murray may not have broken any 'laws' in obtaining the Propofol...and the pharmacy may not have broken any 'laws' in supplying the drug....but it's a blatant example of corruption and 'manipulation' of power/position.
This particular DA team may be 'in' on it...not sure about that just yet. But IMO when this is all over, a HUGE light will be shed on how corrupt and manipulative the judicial system, the media, doctors, pharmacies, etc. have become....EVEN if they haven't broken any 'laws'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on September 28, 2011, 07:49:09 AM
That tape got me thinking about many scenarios...one of them is the bizarre idea of michael being pushed to say those words, being drugged by force. The first word is introduced by another person and michael enrolles with the rest, which seems to be scripted, a text.
I´ve heard people after dental surgery who talks that way, also people who suffered an Ictus, people who took heroin and people talking in their sleep.
I think your right, when Ive been given a sedative when having dental surgery and you try to speak when they give you the drug iv and your speach goes all slurry, think its normal
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 08:03:46 AM
Post by: Mish1981 on September 28, 2011, 08:08:25 AM
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Post by: Datroot on September 28, 2011, 08:10:12 AM
This morning gave me the perfect opening statement (although significantly less formal then you might expect). Thank you TMZ for this quote:QuoteSources close to Prince tell TMZ ... the 14-year-old is "nervous" and worried that if he's called to the stand he might get flustered and "mess up."http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-testify-with-strings-attached-death-witness-conrad-murray-trial-stand-propofol-in-the-room-death-dead-died/)
Although it's full of journalistic interpretation, it does include a quote from Prince; "mess up", which is a statement you'd expect a teenager to say regarding concerns about going on stage in a performance... not taking a witness stand in their father's accused doctor's manslaughter trial. If you take the witness stand, there's nothing to "mess up". You just tell the truth. You don't mess up the truth, you just tell it. Scripted lines in a live stage production, on the other hand, you might forget or misspeak, aka mess up.
I'll be laying out my reasons that I believe court is a scripted production directed by Michael himself, ie "Hoax Court".
Disclaimer: I do believe there will be aspects of court that are real; it's really happening live at the court house, for example. There are almost certainly real court employees who complete their day-to-day duties who are none the wiser in regards to the hoax. All attending members of LAPD may not be privy to all aspects of the production and may only have direct orders of how to proceed when things get unorthodox, for example, without direct knowledge of the hoax. There will be other aspects that we see that are very real. But the bottom line of my belief is that what we will be seeing on TV is a MJJ Production.
Anyone who feels as I feel, and believes as I believe... help me out and back me up and together we will ultimately prove that MJ is the master of illusion who created and launched the Greatest Show on Earth!
Game on! bounce/
I'm with you on this one!!!
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 08:11:17 AM
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Probably, but they did make objections to other things and this was complete hearsay. Opening statements or not.
Post by: shamz on September 28, 2011, 08:13:16 AM
/bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/
Post by: Mish1981 on September 28, 2011, 08:15:12 AM
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Probably, but they did make objections to other things and this was complete hearsay. Opening statements or not.
Ah thank you, I must have missed those. My nieces are visiting for a few days and wanted my undivided attention.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 08:21:14 AM
Another thing I just remembered was that when Chernoff said that Klein made MJ a Demerol addict as if it were fact (not that demerol has anything to do with Propofol), there was NO objection from the prosecution.
I think objections are rare in opening statements since opening statements are just like syllabus that are going to be gone thru in detail during the trial. If in fact I'm right and that's the case, the prosecution will have plenty of chances to shoot this one down.
Probably, but they did make objections to other things and this was complete hearsay. Opening statements or not.
Yes...and therein lies a HUGE problem. The judge repeatedly tells the jury that the opening statements are NOT to be considered as 'evidence'...hmmm ok, then why have them? Are they for show? This is a court of LAW...not a performance. Regardless of jury instructions...once a seed has been planted, it's been planted. If the real purpose of a judicial system is to find the 'truth'...then a LOT of what was presented/talk about/insinuated in both opening statements should NOT have been allowed.
It's funny how the law requires the judge to instruct jurors to NOT read/watch/listen to any coverage of the trial....but at the very same time, is perfectly ok with having these same people listen to the garbage within the courtroom itself.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 28, 2011, 08:35:25 AM
Quote from: Souza
I agree for the most part with bec and partially with Imconvinced, I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.
***What I don't understand is the first time they were trying to pick a jury they couldn't find anyone that hadn't heard about the case, so they had this a whole new selection pool of jurors, these jurors know about the case and some are fans, so I don't see the point in doing a second jury pool because of that reason...or was that an excuse to delay the trial? ...Also do you think the jury are really jurors that have been told that this is a sting court or are they actors...how could they know about the hoax?
Quote from: Souza
There was a huge contrast in those opening statements that I noticed. The prosecution was overall convincing (not to us, but you get me), had a well layed out story and the DA was well spoken and handsome. It has been scientifically proven that you can convince people more easily if you are handsome and well spoken. Then we have short, less handsome and stuttering Ed.
***Poor Ed, is he acting or is he really that bad?
Quote from: Souza
Be honest here: did you all follow him as well as the DA? I saw in chat how people clicked away and said it was too boring to look at. I agree, but that doesn't mean that he didn't have a convincing story. I was very tired at the moment, so I will have to listen to his statement again, but as I remember, Ed tried to explain how propofol works and how Murray couldn't have killed Michael the way the prosecution want to believe you. He said the word 'science' more than once, making a point that you should look at the actual scientific evidence, instead of just the emotional 'Murray killed a drug addict who needed help, he was only 50 years old, look at him laying there on that trolley" kind of talk.
***Yes he said that the argument he would bring forth would be based purely on science...but that whole thing about Michael wouldn't even have time to close his eyes made me laugh.
Quote from: Souza
As for the picture that was shown: that's a BS picture. Why is the quality so bad? Looks like it's 50 years old. Where are his legs? We all know Mike has stelts, did they cut them off? He probably posed for it, before they photoshopped it to make it look like this. If you are worried about this picture, I really don't get how you made it this far, because I have seen way worse things.
***Do you think MJ posed for the pic years and years ago or recently (after June 25th)? because he's face does kind of look young there...also the pic reminded me of a horror movie, like the background, I think Bec put a pic of Saw in one of the other threads which is what it reminded me of...also for some reason it kinda reminded me of The Ring, which was also what is up under the tmz banner in the 'memba' category.
Quote from: Souza
That tape recording is epic. It reminded me of that interview in (I think) '89 where Mike talks about that intro for 'I just can't stop loving you'. Where he said he recorded that when he was in bed. Like Jermaine said in his book, MJ tape recorded almost everything, I bet he recorded this himself too. Is it really him? Yes I think it is and I wonder how many times he had to start again because he couldn't stop laughing.
***ahaha
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Quote from: Souza
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:
***That whole thing about Kenny saying he was worried for Michael weeks before June 25th, saying he looked ill, forgot things and was 'lost' ...then when he saw him a few days before he 'died' he said MJ looked healthy and fine (which I think he said was during the time CM treated him, after that time Kenny felt worried for MJ and at the time Kenny said MJ looked fine and healthy)...also when TII was coming out in cinemas he said at that time Michael was healthy, I don't think then he said he was worried about him, did he?...then when MJ 'died' Kenny got a call and he was told that Michael was 'gone'.
:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
***Where was this? ...I didn't see it.
Quote from: Souza
Okay, I will be back after reviewing/reading the opening statements again, plus the testimonies. I did love Kenny's though, he's such a sweet guy. And he said so many interesting things about the reasons Michael wanted to do this and how he cancelled everything else to be able to be a part of this. I will get back on that later as well.
***I loved how he kept on mentioning the message
Post by: paula-c on September 28, 2011, 09:01:18 AM
or this recording: WTF??
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XJFoH2MwLY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Post by: paula-c on September 28, 2011, 09:10:21 AM
4 pages and Souza is not here yet?
Where are you hiding Sou geek/ ?
Come on, it's not the same without you :? .
LOL, here I am. I am sorry, but I have to split myself in 3 parts lately. The trial, the forum and something else I am trying to read up on. Besides that, I have to sleep, eat and work as well. So that's why I am a little late.
@TS: You are going to defend the murder theory again? lolol/ You brave man! Or do you like it being kicked in the ass? Because I will be standing right behind you with my boots! Nice hint on the 777 bottles of propofol by the way, since that was a huge part of the prosecution's opening statements. I was singing to myself "777 bottles of propofol on the ground, 777 bottles of prop'... etc. Didn't make it to the end though, which was Ed's fault. Man, how boring is he? Poor Murray, I would have fired him and hired Mesereau.
But anyways. Since you yourself kinda said already that this is a kangaroo court (which means nothing more than HOAX court), you will be having a hard time with me while defending your murder theory. So now is the time to back down, otherwise: let the battle begin! lolol/
I agree for the most part with bec and partially with Imconvinced, I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.
The reason I don't believe the sting is against the DA/prosecution team, is because for a personal vendetta, Mike (as far as I am aware) did not have any problems/issues with this team. Besides that, if this sting would be against the prosecution and they would be called out as a team wanting to hang an innocent man by all means, you can prosecute them and that's it. It will not change the system in my opinion, because the media will be all over it and make sure you will think this is a one time event. So I don't see the point in that.
On the other hand, if you have all parties involved, except the media (and of course as bec pointed out some or maybe even most of the people in the courtroom doing their regular jobs) and they will present a case that is full of shit, like we have been seeing for 2+ years now, and the media will not do their homework and trying to convince you of Murray's guilt by siding with the prosecution in spite of evidence that Murray is innocent, you will be able to make a point. It is the media that plants the idea in your head whether or not someone is guilty. I know that they mostly just cover high profile cases, but still they are able through these cases to give the viewers a general idea of how to decide whether or not a person is guilty. Those viewers will eventually turn up as jurors in a case and will have that printed in their minds. It is not about the real evidence, it is about the way they present a case. If you tell a lie big enough, the public will believe it.
In my opinion, the only reason Mike won in 2005, was because he had a lawyer that was so damn good, that the jury had no other choice than to find him not guilty. If he had Ed Chernoff as a lawyer, he would have been a dead man. NOT because he was guilty, but because he wouldn't have a lawyer that could make the jury see that the prosecution was lying.
There was a huge contrast in those opening statements that I noticed. The prosecution was overall convincing (not to us, but you get me), had a well layed out story and the DA was well spoken and handsome. It has been scientifically proven that you can convince people more easily if you are handsome and well spoken. Then we have short, less handsome and stuttering Ed. Be honest here: did you all follow him as well as the DA? I saw in chat how people clicked away and said it was too boring to look at. I agree, but that doesn't mean that he didn't have a convincing story. I was very tired at the moment, so I will have to listen to his statement again, but as I remember, Ed tried to explain how propofol works and how Murray couldn't have killed Michael the way the prosecution want to believe you. He said the word 'science' more than once, making a point that you should look at the actual scientific evidence, instead of just the emotional 'Murray killed a drug addict who needed help, he was only 50 years old, look at him laying there on that trolley" kind of talk. Next to that, he even gave a hint that MJ isn't dead at all, by saying he first swallowed 8 pills that could take 6 people out, before he injected/swallowed the propofol. If he was out, how could he have taken the fatal dose of propofol? He would have been asleep for hours. But the public will side with the prosecution, because they will play with your emotions, just like the media does. MJ is the poor little victim, Murray is the doctor from hell, like Gavin was the poor little victim in 2005, and MJ the babysitter from hell. But Sneddon was darn ugly and stupid as well, so luckily their plan didn't work back then. But you can see how the media backed Sneddon even more when they realized they had a huge lion to fight (Mesereau).
It's people like Diane Demon, Nancy Disgrace and all other filthy reporters, that should be the target of the sting. They will plant the "Murray is guilty" verdict in the heads of the jurors. Those jurors DO watch the coverage of the case at night, there is no escape. The media doesn't search for evidence, they will try to dig up dirt on Murray to show you. Stuff that wouldn't be allowed in court, but what can be shown on TV. I always think of the movie 'A Time To Kill' where Matthew (the lawyer) says things in court he is not allowed to. He gets slapped for it, but he doesn't care, because he SAID it and the jury HEARD it. It is printed in their minds, even though they may not take it into consideration for the verdict, but he knows they will. That is exactly what the media does. Whatever they say about Murray, the jury may not take it into consideration for the verdict, but the will, because they HEARD it. And it takes a damn good lawyer to 'deprogram' the jury. Not everyone is rich enough to pay for their own 'Tom Mesereau' and that is why IMO many innocent people are condemned, in spite of strong evidence that they are innocent.
As for the picture that was shown: that's a BS picture. Why is the quality so bad? Looks like it's 50 years old. Where are his legs? We all know Mike has stelts, did they cut them off? He probably posed for it, before they photoshopped it to make it look like this. If you are worried about this picture, I really don't get how you made it this far, because I have seen way worse things. TMZ pointed out how the prosecution is working on the public's emotion:QuoteMICHAEL JACKSON'S DEATH PHOTO
Frightening Intentions?
9/27/2011 1:05 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-main.jpg)
It seems the prosecution wanted to give the Michael Jackson death photo a murky, gritty treatment before it was presented in court this morning -- because it was clearly touched up to look as daunting as possible.
It appears the photo is NOT the original pic -- because now it includes a tattered border, a morgue-esque green hue ... and the word "Homicide" printed over MJ's body in a grainy, police-style font.
The prosecution used the photo as the background for a slide-show presentation in court.
Compare the pic to a cleaned up version of the photo (below) -- is the murky photo more likely to shake the jury?
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/27/0927-michael-bed-dead-sub.jpg)
We gotta ask ...
Prosecution's image
Misleading 63%
Fair 37%
Total Votes: 55,264
That tape recording is epic. It reminded me of that interview in (I think) '89 where Mike talks about that intro for 'I just can't stop loving you'. Where he said he recorded that when he was in bed. Like Jermaine said in his book, MJ tape recorded almost everything, I bet he recorded this himself too. Is it really him? Yes I think it is and I wonder how many times he had to start again because he couldn't stop laughing.
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray. Also the talk of the '777 bottles of propofol' was interesting, since TS clearly wanted to point that out. (this is by the way not relevant. Even if Murray ordered that much, you still have to prove that he injected it all into MJ, which seems HIGHLY unlikely, since a waaaaaaay smaller dose would be lethal already.:idea: Murray isn't board certified=? not a doctor? This is new confirmation.
Again the prosecution playing with the jury/public. As Imconvinced figured out, it's not even required to be board certified. So it's merely to put Murray in a bad light. People will think he's not a doctor, but this information doesn't say that. Manipulation.:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol::idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
Ding dong again!:idea: Close captioning during the Prosecution's opening statement wrote "Conradt Murder", quickly erased "Murder" and replaced it with "Murray". If CC'ing is from court, it's a subliminal clue. If CC'ing is from the network, it exposes the prevalent bias in the case. "Murder" speaks for itself but "Contradt" is interesting in it's similarity to "Contract" and when preceeding "Murder" it reminds me of the early attempts at anagraming Murray's name to "murder by contract".
Interesting, I missed that. Need to rewatch.:idea: Two paramedics pictured, as we discovered already, one white, one black. Neither paramedic in the ambulance pic was black so what's that all about?
There allegedly was a third, because someone had to drive. Do we know who that was? I guess we will find out later, but that might be something to keep an eye on.:idea: Stretcher pic: He's not bald, doesn't look old, or emaciated, and certainly not like a cancer patient. He looks exactly like Michael Jackson. What's he wearing? It appears to have sleeves. It is a hospital snuggy? He appears to be wearing what might be a watch. Where is the endo-tracheal tube? The autopsy states it is still present and in place. It is certainly present in the ambulance pic. Who captioned it "Homicide"? It's a manslaughter trial.
I don't see the tube either, so if this picture was taken in the hospital, I would like to know who got it out and put it back in for the coroner (which is mission impossible with a corpse by the way. Even if you would get it back in, there would be terrible damage to the throat.):idea: Chernoff: in regards to MJ, "He did an act... he did an act" repetitively stressed.
Probably because he's an ACTor. :lol::idea: Chernoff: in regards to helping the jury understand the evidence, "We will provide you The Sign." Love it. Little TS shout out there.
Damn, I missed that too. Thanks for the shout out TS. ;)
Okay, I will be back after reviewing/reading the opening statements again, plus the testimonies. I did love Kenny's though, he's such a sweet guy. And he said so many interesting things about the reasons Michael wanted to do this and how he cancelled everything else to be able to be a part of this. I will get back on that later as well.
ps. My guess for level 7: I think the trial will indeed end somewhere around or before 10/28 (which is exactly 2 years after TII) and my guess is that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween) because that date will be EXACTLY 333 weeks after June 13, 2005, plus the obvious: It's Halloween. Court will not be closed: http://www.courts.ca.gov/holidays.htm (http://www.courts.ca.gov/holidays.htm) I think level 7 will be about guessing/discussing the verdict.
Perhaps kicked in the ass to my also? ,.. i think is that /white flag/ suspicious//
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on September 28, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Is it just me or did the body language of Paul Gongaware seem a little off? A lot of hand gestures and strange facial expressions that didn't seem to fit with his words.
Totally! Way to much of hand gestures, it was very destructing! So he was either lying or, which means that he is a very bad actor or it's just the way he talks. Because some hand gestures are very specific to some people, so we must know how he talks in real life first.
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on September 28, 2011, 09:51:32 AM
@bec I am hoping we will get more of this type of scenario, but I don't really think that if we do it will be as blatant. Not to start with anyway!
Thanks go to TNZ on twitter
(http://truenewszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/playroom.jpg)
According to Pearl Jr there was a toy elephant in the courtroom...wonder where it was?QuotePearljr (http://twitter.com/#%21/Pearljr) Pearljr There is a toy elephant in the courtroom 6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
The elephant was on the lady's desk, the one who was saying to the witnesses :"Raise your right hand and swear to tell truth and nothing but the truth". It was a stuffed brown elephant which was showing his BACK to the camera. I saw it.
Post by: giuliana78 on September 28, 2011, 09:54:59 AM
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on September 28, 2011, 10:12:33 AM
In order to prove a sting court you would have to prove that someone were acting differently because they believe MJ is dead then they would if he were alive.
The non-believer fans are greatly the ones being caught in the trap that is visible thus far. They are acting differently by believing the media reports about Michael, calling for the prosecution of a man due to a visceral reaction fueled by reports they heard on the news but never looked into with an open mind, they are blaming any inconsistencies in logic presented in the media on greed and selfishness displayed by the Jackson Family rather then giving them the benefit of the doubt.
What I see all the time and I need to say this is- it's not the media alone, it's almost the whole Jackson family who said repeatedly Michael was murdered, he's dead. If only media lies, then why does the family repeatedly say he was murdered? It's NOT the media. The family says this. If it's to prove that media lies, then why also the family? The media has to be exposed as liars, not the family. And so far the family says he was murdered. Even if you don't read a single paper or don't have a TV in your home, you read La Toya and Jermaine's books where they say he was murdered.
People say all the time that they believe what media tells them. But in fact it's the Jackson family who says he's dead and was murdered all the time. If you can find a logical and possible explanation please tell me, because the problem is not about the media for me. But the FAMILY.
The non-believers don't believe the media, but the family.
Anna if you believe that Family is the one to blame for the lies, then why media didn't report what family was saying in 2005? Family was screaming that Michael is innocent. Did media listen to it? NO! They would only say, well yes the family says he is innocent just because it's his family. You still think that family is the one to blame? Remember how much disgusting and humiliating things they were saying about Michael during that difficult time for him. How they were making fun of him and some of them still do.
Now it's all just an act, it's an illusion! I was very saddened to see that you are blaming family for all of this. Please think things over and see a bigger picture, as i believe that you are a very bright person.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 12:13:00 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Sarahli on September 28, 2011, 12:40:05 PM
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Post by: MissG on September 28, 2011, 12:43:53 PM
Post by: Grace on September 28, 2011, 12:54:28 PM
I missed it since I could not spend the whole time online.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/gatsby6306/blowingkisslargesmiley.gif)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 01:34:06 PM
I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing. The DA is doing his job and going through the motions but he is not in on it. He is really thinking he has a case.
The defense most likely knows, well at least Murray does. The judge is also someone who is under investigation. The judge is someone who hands down a verdict so considering what TS said about that...
Quote
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray.The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.
The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.The tape recording was not being introduced as evidence so no objection was needed. The tape was played during the DA's opening statements and was a part of their over view of what they were going to present. That was a strategic move on their part to plant a scary slurring image of MJ in the jurys minds.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.
Ding dong again!Murray's email to the Insurer was a response to their questioning MJ's health based on what they were reading in the news. Murray was reasurring the insurance company that MJ is well and the news reports about his health is fallacious. smiley_spider
Post by: LaLove09 on September 28, 2011, 01:59:16 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 02:06:51 PM
Hello ALL... I'm not sure if this is the right thread to mention the new aspect I can add to this all. I haven't been here in a long time. Just wanted to give you my 2 cents. After one opens their 3rd eye shit gets even more disturbing!! I can see auras within any kinda media. And not seeing one around Mike on that stretcher saddens me. No aura= death. HOWEVER there are many overlays in that pic. So eye may be getting a false reading. That pic looks to be altered. Now IDK if Mike went to the extent of making sure there are no auras in "evidence" But um this is NOT GOOD at ALL! And from the looks of Dr Murray's aura. He's no clever "actor" in this... his ass is cloudy, but, cloudy is better than having a muddy aura. Well there's my 2 cents. Sorry if this dampens things. But Mike wanted up to see through the veils and eye can more than EVER. ♥♥♥ CAN ANYONE ELSE SEE AURAS?? If so let's team up and interpret our findings...♥♥♥
Not in this thread please, this is not the place.
Post by: LaLove09 on September 28, 2011, 02:09:31 PM
Post by: paula-c on September 28, 2011, 02:46:44 PM
That photo went round the world,... now the whole world is watching this trial
Post by: mjj4ever777 on September 28, 2011, 02:47:46 PM
In truth I cannot believe that this kind of 'evidence' to have any impact on people in this forum that already have time here, i can understand it by someone who did not know the hoax and however a person with minimal knowledge of photographing knows that that photo is a mounting and very poorly done, i know nothing about these things and immediately i realized, if this is kind of things that we're going to see in the coming weeks, this is going to be very fun
or this recording: WTF??
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XJFoH2MwLY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
My husband and I keep listening to this voice recording and we both agree that this man sounds like a man who has suffered a stroke talking, not necessarily someone "drugged" up! Plus the fact that this person seems like he is reading something "scripted. My grandparents both had strokes, and this is the way they talked...just throwing it out there...this also could be attributed to the ambulance guy who said Michael looked like a hospice patient...so maybe there really was someone who was going to die, and Michael was taking care of him in return for a few favors?
Or...I don't really want to voice this, but the thought has crossed my mind a time or two. What if the real Michael Jackson took ill years ago and has been in hiding and using doubles to portray him in his "public" life, and he thought, well if I'm going to die, I'm going to go out with the Greatest Show this world has ever seen, and in the process, he is able to uncover all the corruption at the same time???
I don't know, there really are so many possibilities of what is really going on and that is the beauty of this Hoax...,many, many possible "layers".
In my heart though, I believe that Michael is alive and the truth will prevail!!
Sending you all LOVE on this beautiful day! Keep the Faith dear family!!
bearhug
Post by: MJonmind on September 28, 2011, 02:51:52 PM
Souza, the forum is working great today, thanks a million! /bravo/
I got to watch pretty much everything so far, and really felt like the witnesses were not following any script but their own knowledge. But the questions were about all the legal contract issues signing on Murray, and Michael Amir Williams time-line and security details. Again they were ignoring the "elephant" in the room, other inconsistancies showing it is all a hoax. I believe MJ set up EVERY conceivable situation detail so that their testimony would be as real as possible. MAW's emotion on the 25th seems real with all the little panicy phonecalls.
Just 2 things kinda caught my attention. MAW said everything was normal at midnight when they returned to the house after rehearsal and they carried in a bunch of gifts from fans. But according to LoToya she said fans said MJ didn't chat with fans like normal and there were extra bodygaurds than normal. Someone's lying there.
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
Post by: Sarahli on September 28, 2011, 03:04:42 PM
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
If I understood correctly, Michael Amir was asked by "detectives" to record this voice mail.
Post by: Sarahli on September 28, 2011, 03:07:14 PM
God bless you, Sarahli, for taking that screenshot.
I missed it since I could not spend the whole time online.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/gatsby6306/blowingkisslargesmiley.gif)
Much LOVE back at you.......... bearhug
Post by: paula-c on September 28, 2011, 03:11:49 PM
( i am referring to the media )perhaps suspect that MJ is alive but do not dare to say anything
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on September 28, 2011, 03:13:01 PM
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
Post by: curls on September 28, 2011, 03:13:41 PM
Actually, yes, I think it may well have been recorded on 10th May and when they all met up a few days later I can imagine MJ probably told them all about this creepy audio he'd just done for the trial!
Hell, Jermaine's just told the world in no uncertain terms that Michael pretended to be sick and in a wheelchair to fool the press, he's announced what a manipulator and showman he is - what more does he have to say?
(Off topic: I just thought as I wrote that, that maybe Jermaine will be the one to 'announce' the bam, just as he announced the 'death', and we were told he was the only official spokesman for the family - hmmm!)
Post by: curls on September 28, 2011, 03:16:14 PM
And i i dare to say that these asshole
( i am referring to the media )perhaps suspect that MJ is alive but do not dare to say anything
I've wondered this for a long time Paula, we CANNOT be the only ones to know! Perhaps the whole world knows but doesn't say!
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on September 28, 2011, 03:20:40 PM
I've never seen a brown elephant before only grey. It also looks like a piece of bs... :lol:
Souza, the forum is working great today, thanks a million! /bravo/
I got to watch pretty much everything so far, and really felt like the witnesses were not following any script but their own knowledge. But the questions were about all the legal contract issues signing on Murray, and Michael Amir Williams time-line and security details. Again they were ignoring the "elephant" in the room, other inconsistancies showing it is all a hoax. I believe MJ set up EVERY conceivable situation detail so that their testimony would be as real as possible. MAW's emotion on the 25th seems real with all the little panicy phonecalls.
Just 2 things kinda caught my attention. MAW said everything was normal at midnight when they returned to the house after rehearsal and they carried in a bunch of gifts from fans. But according to LoToya she said fans said MJ didn't chat with fans like normal and there were extra bodygaurds than normal. Someone's lying there.
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
MAW didn't record that. You see CM called MAW on June 25 at 12:13 pm and left him a voice msg,(he said, "please call me back, thank you")because MAW didn't pick up the phone. It's a very common thing in Iphones. Then MAW called him back and they talked for about 35 seconds. So then he recorded this voice msg on camera to prove to the Police that it WAS actually a msg from his iphone. But the weird thing is that WHY would police ask him to record the VIDEO of this msg, when MAW could simply show the police his phone, without any videos.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 04:17:15 PM
Oh wow just now saw the cleaned up version of the pic and there's still no aura!!! :'(
OMG, he MUST be dead then... :?
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 04:33:11 PM
I've never seen a brown elephant before only grey. It also looks like a piece of bs... :lol:
Souza, the forum is working great today, thanks a million! /bravo/
I got to watch pretty much everything so far, and really felt like the witnesses were not following any script but their own knowledge. But the questions were about all the legal contract issues signing on Murray, and Michael Amir Williams time-line and security details. Again they were ignoring the "elephant" in the room, other inconsistancies showing it is all a hoax. I believe MJ set up EVERY conceivable situation detail so that their testimony would be as real as possible. MAW's emotion on the 25th seems real with all the little panicy phonecalls.
Just 2 things kinda caught my attention. MAW said everything was normal at midnight when they returned to the house after rehearsal and they carried in a bunch of gifts from fans. But according to LoToya she said fans said MJ didn't chat with fans like normal and there were extra bodygaurds than normal. Someone's lying there.
The other thing is that MAW recorded Murray's call to him while he was at his residence in down town Los Angeles at 12:00 noon or so the next day and Murray had simply said that Michael had had a bad reaction and to come right away. But why would MAW record something so innocent because there's no hint that he would die of that, like he would need it for evidence in court in the future. That seemed off to me.
MAW didn't record that. You see CM called MAW on June 25 at 12:13 pm and left him a voice msg,(he said, "please call me back, thank you")because MAW didn't pick up the phone. It's a very common thing in Iphones. Then MAW called him back and they talked for about 35 seconds. So then he recorded this voice msg on camera to prove to the Police that it WAS actually a msg from his iphone. But the weird thing is that WHY would police ask him to record the VIDEO of this msg, when MAW could simply show the police his phone, without any videos.
The detective had him record this on a seperate video so that it could be introduced as evidence, also so they did not have to take MAW's personal phone away from him for the extended amount of time before the trial and during.
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 28, 2011, 04:46:09 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 04:48:16 PM
MJ had/has some pretty good looking gentlemen working for him :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 04:49:16 PM
Post by: PureLove on September 28, 2011, 04:51:58 PM
How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing.
I have to agree with this. This can not be a sting on media. This is so much bigger than this. The media is already punked, no trial was needed. And I do not believe the media is aware of the situation except TMZ and maybe some employees of CNN like Larry King.
The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
I have to disagree with this. We do not know IF the jury is in on it or not and we can not know it for now. We were TOLD that they filled out a questionare and again we were TOLD that they chose these jurors among hundreds of people. How do we know it? I'm not saying, they're definitely in on it and know the hoax but I'm saying that we can not know if they're in on it or not.
The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
I personally believe that there're some key people who know about the hoax in DA. The way the head prosecutor asked the questions and mentioned a couple of words a couple of times made me also think that he knows the hoax.
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.
Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:
During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
I have to agree with Bec and Souza. The DA asked repeatedly about the illusion and repeated MAGIC ACT again a couple of times. I don't know if we get it this way because we're looking with our hoax eyes but that stood out to me. And why would the prosecutor try to prove that Michael was healthy? Shouldn't they try to prove the opposite? confused/
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 28, 2011, 05:26:52 PM
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 28, 2011, 05:37:20 PM
Did anyone tried calling the numbers they showed in court today?i was thinking the same thing about the numbers being shown,i can understand the name being shown,but not the number.even on Judge Judy they block this kind of stuff out,and thats a cival court,this is criminal court.only certain eyes can pick these kind of things out,the believers.aren't we so lucky, lolol/
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 06:50:31 PM
Quote
And why would the prosecutor try to prove that Michael was healthy? Shouldn't they try to prove the opposite?@PureLove-The point is the prosecution is saying that on June 23 and June 24 Michael was healthy, coherant, excited for the Illusion, etc. The DA's point is MJ wouldn't have took his own life because he had alot to look forward to. The DA is trying to prove that Murray is the reason why MJ is dead because he gave him all those drugs. No they wouldn't try to prove the opposite because then they wouldn't even have to prosecute anyone if MJ killed himself.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing. The DA is doing his job and going through the motions but he is not in on it. He is really thinking he has a case.
The trial is needed for the simple reason that the media should have an excuse to investigate. If he only faked his death, and no foul play was involved, there would be nothing to question. The family says he's dead, so that's it. But as soon as it is alleged that he was killed/murdered, the media would have an excuse to investigate the case and see the inconsistencies. But still they don't, not even when an innocent man is on trial. So for a 'sting' against the media, a trial IS needed in my opinion. But as I explained later on, I think the real sting is against certain people/organisations behind the curtain, and that this trial is also partly meant as a distraction, hence why the focus is only on Murray.
The defense most likely knows, well at least Murray does. The judge is also someone who is under investigation. The judge is someone who hands down a verdict so considering what TS said about that...QuoteWe also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
The judge is in on it. He is the one setting the oh so 'coincidental' dates. Also, and I said that back in the other thread about sting vs. hoax: MJ was malicious prosecuted by the SB prosecution, not the LA prosecution. There is corruption everywhere, and only targeting this one court doesn't make sense. You might catch a judge and a DA, but you won't expose all the rest of the corrupt bunch.
And we do not know if the jury is real. They could be, but they could also have been picked from the first pool like I explained earlier. They had 4 months to screen them and (if necessary) contract them. Like TS says: Kangaroo court, or hoax court, which means the verdict is already known. That means the jury already have orders about their verdict.
Also (and I have mentioned this before as well) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him with many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray.The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
If we go by your theory of sting court against DA (as well as others), then it would also be very likely (if he were dirty) that he would search the net all over for dirt on Murray, just like Sneddon did. Just type in 'Michael Jackson death' or 'Conrad Murray Court Case' and this forum will show up immediately. If he were dirty, he would have enough reson to know exactly what is said about the case as well, and I am sure he would have read about his middle name too. He can pull a BC in a second and as soon as he would have the confirmation on his real middle name, he would have smelled a rat. And let's not forget that the middle name is not the only obvious indication that this is a hoax. And this Walgren looks like a smart guy, so I don't buy it, that DA is definitely in on it.
:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.The tape recording was not being introduced as evidence so no objection was needed. The tape was played during the DA's opening statements and was a part of their over view of what they were going to present. That was a strategic move on their part to plant a scary slurring image of MJ in the jurys minds.
Oh, but there were other objections during the opening statements. I know they can't come up with evidence or arguments, but it's not like they are free to say whatever they want. And I watched TMZ live this afternoon, and I noticed that Harvey was also surprised that there was no objection to that from the prosecution, and he's a lawyer, so apparently it is very normal to object in opening statements, evidence or not. You can influence a jury with your statement, and that is what Chernoff did. From day one he said: Klein is the guilty one, not Murray, because Klein addicted MJ to Demerol (not propofol). BS! "Objection! Hearsay Your Honer!".
:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
Kenny is not the only one who said Mike was in good spirits that day. He could have easily said "You will learn from several witnesses during the trial that Michael Jackson was fit and in good spirits the night before he died...". But instead of saying that, he decided the very hoaxy of the illusion. Coincidence? Maybe, but I happen not to believe in them.
:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.Ding dong again!Murray's email to the Insurer was a response to their questioning MJ's health based on what they were reading in the news. Murray was reasurring the insurance company that MJ is well and the news reports about his health is fallacious. smiley_spider
Don't we all know that? Hahahahaha, he had to be healthy enough to at least not die. If anything, we know THAT for sure.
I am actually waiting for TS and his far-fetched murder theories. I agree on too many points with you to really have much satisfaction in challenging your statements, lol. I wanna kick some ass! TS???? Come play when you're done doing what you're doing. lolol/
Post by: PureLove on September 28, 2011, 06:56:19 PM
QuoteAnd why would the prosecutor try to prove that Michael was healthy? Shouldn't they try to prove the opposite?@PureLove-The point is the prosecution is saying that on June 23 and June 24 Michael was healthy, coherant, excited for the Illusion, etc. The DA's point is MJ wouldn't have took his own life because he had alot to look forward to. The DA is trying to prove that Murray is the reason why MJ is dead because he gave him all those drugs. No they wouldn't try to prove the opposite because then they wouldn't even have to prosecute anyone if MJ killed himself.
Actually according to the defense Michael took his own life ACCIDENTALLY. They or noone said that he was depressed and wanted to kill himself. So I don't get why it is important to prove Michael was happy and wouldn't take his own life. He didn't do it on purpose according to the defense. But the prosecutor is trying to prove that Michael didn't inject prop of fool to himself but Murray did it all. And proving how happy he was proves that an addict would never inject himself propofol?
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 07:06:42 PM
She's letting them know!
first she says Rabbi Schmuley shouldn't even be interviewed because his relationship with Mike ending ugly!
then she says the trial is a JOKE and they are wasting tax payers money. Jane Valdez cut her off and said "We'll be right back!!" and Jane's face was like this :shock:
ahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
for those losing hope DONT give up just yet.
P.s. I don't recall lmfao
Post by: PureLove on September 28, 2011, 07:14:04 PM
DAAAAAAAAAMN!!!! Is anyone watching HLN with Raymone Bain?!
She's letting them know!
first she says Rabbi Schmuley shouldn't even be interviewed because his relationship with Mike ending ugly!
then she says the trial is a JOKE and they are wasting tax payers money. Jane Valdez cut her off and said "We'll be right back!!" and Jane's face was like this :shock:
ahahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
for those losing hope DONT give up just yet.
P.s. I don't recall lmfao
:lol:
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 07:17:39 PM
HLN, on Nancy Grace they showed a clip from the NASDAQ countdown
afraid/
:lol:
Post by: PureLove on September 28, 2011, 07:20:56 PM
Hey Purelove, you remember the MJ FB video 'He's BAD, He's Back'
HLN, on Nancy Grace they showed a clip from the NASDAQ countdown
afraid/
:lol:
You gotta be kidding me! :lol: So, the countdown has started! lolol/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 07:28:40 PM
Quote
Also (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Post by: Sarahli on September 28, 2011, 07:29:12 PM
Did anyone tried calling the numbers they showed in court today?i was thinking the same thing about the numbers being shown,i can understand the name being shown,but not the number.even on Judge Judy they block this kind of stuff out,and thats a cival court,this is criminal court.only certain eyes can pick these kind of things out,the believers.aren't we so lucky, lolol/
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
I too find it extremely odd to show those phone numbers.
There's been a lot of talk about Back doors and Front doors today at the court, and about who got the KEYS. 8-) I was reminded of one of Front's funny jokes:
Quote
Assistant: I ain't got yo' damn KEYS!
Randy: Yes, you do! I saw you go in through the Front door and sneak out the Back door!
Assistant: How do you know that?
Randy: 'cause I was Watchin'!!!
:lol: geek/
Who got the keys finally? The security.
- Something else caught my attention. Ed Chernoff (Murray's lawyer) kept on repeating the word "Detail(s)".... I swear he was really insisting on that word! I was like OMG! because of course I thought about what Front said not so long ago............
Quote
DEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT…………….
Other interesting connections here http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,5167.msg358377.html#msg358377
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 07:37:22 PM
I usually stand Nancy Grace, but she's on it tonight. I think all the dancing has cleared her mind.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 07:40:11 PM
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 07:42:35 PM
Nancy Grace: I "thought" the accusers in '05 trial were telling the truth. Key word "THOUGHT"
But in this trial, Michael Jackson can in no way be considered the bad guy.
Sorry, just writing notes that I hear at the moment. It belongs here, but its all over the place.
I'm just excited to here the very people who called MJ a Molester, is now the Victim. And anyone who says different is shushed! Good
Post by: Sarahli on September 28, 2011, 07:52:24 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 07:52:47 PM
Anyways, I am annoyed by the media coverage, are they stupid or something?
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 08:05:44 PM
Oh my, I am watching CNN now and the reporters say how MJ was posing as if he were asleep and that when Murray left the room, he quickly got the Propofol and then killed himself. Have they not heard that Chernoff said that he allegedly had swallowed 8 2mg pills of lorazepam which is enough to take 6 people down? And how they will prove that scientifically during the trial? And if they heard that, why aren't they questioning the propofol at all, since it would not have been needed after 16 mg of lorazepam?
Anyways, I am annoyed by the media coverage, are they stupid or something?
I agree, the media is the voice for the ignorant! but I believe some good info is on the very shows we have grown to hate. Those involved in the hoax, Lou Farigno (I believe more and more becuse MJ specifically didn't want their friendship publicized for 20 years), Raymone Bain, etc. are lashing out, using shows like Nancy Grace ( :roll: ) as a platform. This trial will only get better, one more month and we will know! I believe in the Hoax, I'm just excited to know the real reason for it, in Michael's own words.
Its also interesting that after we discuss at this forum that the "MJ dead in hospital" pic is disproportionate, HLN shows a cropped picture of the gurney picture. lol they are trying to throw people off and I believe they are visiting here to get our insight.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 08:13:39 PM
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 08:18:01 PM
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 28, 2011, 08:19:20 PM
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
So is Michael, yet you say he doesn't give a shit about him ;)
I promise I will stop now.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 08:34:10 PM
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
Minor changes were made to the California seal in 1937 and it hasn't been altered since then.
It was oringinally made in 1849 with 31 stars, establishing its admission as the 31st state.
please pause for a suspicious// moment!
Quote
Controversies and Other Issueshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California)
Controversy was attached to the seal from the beginning. During the 1849 Constitutional Convention debate on the design of the seal, the bear was added to satisfy Major J.R. Snyder and the men of the Bear Flag Revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic), which freed California from Mexican rule in 1846. This addition was objected to by native Californio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californio) Mariano Guadalupe Vallejo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariano_Guadalupe_Vallejo), former head of the Mexican military in California, but a friend of the United States. He introduced an amendment to remove the bear, or, if it were to remain, that it be held fast by a vaquero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaquero)'s lasso. The amendment failed.[31]
In February 1850, the Daily Alta California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Alta_California) of San Francisco accused Lyon of taking the $1000 appropriated to him by the convention for the purpose of securing a die and press, but giving a marred design, a die sunk too shallow, and an insufficiently powerful press for the job in return. The editorial continued that Lyon "received his money out of the civil fund, and is now conveying it to the sylvan retreats of Lyonsdale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyonsdale,_New_York)" and quite vehemently stated that Lyon had "no right or title to the honor of either designing or executing the seal any more than the Kha[n] of Tartary" while still protecting the anonymity of Garnett.[32]
Controversy arose again in 1899 with an article in the San Francisco Chronicle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Chronicle) that claimed that Garnett's design was not original, but in fact based upon the seal of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Odd_Fellows)' California Lodge No. 1, with a few changes.[33] This article was soon followed by a defense of the originality of the design written by Major Garnett's brother, Louis A. Garnett, who claimed that the timing of the creation of and differences between the two seals made it impossible for the state seal to have been based on the lodge seal.[34] Despite this, the Grand Lodge of California continues to make this claim,[35] and an I.O.O.F. historian has suggested that perhaps Garnett in fact designed both seals.[36]
In 1994, after seeing Minerva and Medusa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa) on the large seal at the west steps of the State Capitol, Pastor Margo Brown called it "an affront to women and Christian faith." "I was shocked and amazed to see a woman [Minerva] in a man's uniform," the Sacramento Bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Bee) reported her saying, "And there was a picture of Medusa with snakes on her head. I'm very proud of my gender and women need to be portrayed in a better light." She lead a crusade at the Capitol to call for a redesign of the seal, but the seal remains unchanged.[37]
In 2001, the Oakland Tribune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Tribune) printed a letter to the editor with a light-hearted suggestion of new imagery for the seal. The writer proposed replacing the sailing ships with Japanese car carriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_carrier#Car_carriers), the wheat and grape vine with Central Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)) subdivisions, obscuring the Sierra Nevada with smog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog), and giving California a new motto more appropriate for the time: "I have lost it."[38]
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 28, 2011, 08:40:53 PM
Nancy Disgrace on her show kept calling MJ a junkie and a junkie for 20 years. Then every one of her guests (except Lou) she spoke to after that they kept referring to MJ as a junkie period.
I also heard about the whole possum and playing sleep defense. lmao
Souza-The difference of power between MJ and his family is MJ is the one who has the stigma of the pedo accusations. He is also the one who has been singing to the world on a level that TPTB don't want to ever let that happen again.
Post by: paula-c on September 28, 2011, 08:42:05 PM
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
Quote
badkolo (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=profile;u=123)
i swear i saw the lady who swore in kenny have a toy rabbit in her hand
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.0.html)
If this is true is approaching to the theory of Souza,... suspicious// where you can see the video?
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 09:12:49 PM
Oh my, I am watching CNN now and the reporters say how MJ was posing as if he were asleep and that when Murray left the room, he quickly got the Propofol and then killed himself. Have they not heard that Chernoff said that he allegedly had swallowed 8 2mg pills of lorazepam which is enough to take 6 people down? And how they will prove that scientifically during the trial? And if they heard that, why aren't they questioning the propofol at all, since it would not have been needed after 16 mg of lorazepam?
Anyways, I am annoyed by the media coverage, are they stupid or something?
About the 8 lorazepam...Dr. Drew just had a few doctors on his show (one of which was really 'interesting'...but didn't write his name down). Anyhow, they agree that the possum story is virtually impossible to cause 'sudden' death...as the defence are claiming...even if Mike washed them down with the propofol :lol: . I don't understand all the 'science' behind it but they were saying something about the length of time that he would've stopped breathing. While the 'perfect storm' could lead to death...it would not have been so quickly that "he didn't even have time to close his eyes"...or shut his mouth lol.
Watching the coverage of this trial causes me to 'oscillate' between astonishment at the complete idiocy of the media and being thoroughly disgusted with the way they feel they are in ANY position to pass judgement on an individual that was crucified by their very own 'profession'. If any 'journalist' or 'reporter' does not KNOW about the crucifiction, then they aren't qualified to be at their post....(and having to sit through this has GREATLY sped up my desire for an imminent BAM). When you combine the astonishment with the disgust...a powerful feeling of utter pride in Mike takes over...and faith that he's gonna take all these bastards down. And ya, we shouldn't wish harm and always show L.O.V.E to our fellow (wo)man...but those rules don't apply to scum.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 09:24:35 PM
MJ is not stupid. Some beg to differ.
Post by: wishingstar on September 28, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
I'd like to go back to the witness that was interviewed on the street. It was a woman that said she was a witness for Murray.....his assistant. I was looking around for witness guidelines and found an Orange County site that mentions a witness should not discuss the case in public areas etc.......
- "Do not discuss the case with any other witness or juror. Avoid discussing the case in public areas such as elevators, hallways, or the cafeteria – jurors or other witnesses may be present."http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=353 (http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=353)
I am have a hard time even wrapping my brain around this trial. I feel like it's for the public's sake, not ours. We know he's alive. We have been riding this wave for over 2 years. BeTheChange said it perfectly:"And we...the 'believers', the 'chosen ones', the 'true fans'...whatever you wanna call us...we got to see the master at work, in the most intimate of ways."
The trial is the continuation of This Is It.....the public is blind to it all, however. Many people don't even know it's going on. Why? Where have they been? I think he will BAM, and people will be like....."oh, yeah, I figured as much....Michael staging his own death....yada yada yada...." They will have completely missed the point. Ok....this post is freaking out....all on it's own......first the font, then spacebar, then delete.....all are doing wrong things.......I think it's possessed /cook/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 09:51:55 PM
@Souza....nice post on the California seal.....it's one star too many. I guess the extra star must be for Michael ;)
Interesting thought. MJ has lived in California and stayed there. He has contributed so much to the state that he deserves a star. michael-jackson/
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 10:01:05 PM
The trial is a complete circus! After watching Majestic on Dr. Drew tonight...I'm convinced that Mike is enjoying this. Like literally kicking back, throwing popcorn in the air type of enjoyment. And, if so, he deserves to be entertained.
As for the rest of the world who have no clue as to Mike being alive...well, they've missed out on the adventure of a lifetime....I was long overdue for one :lol: . Even when Mike comes back....even if they are filled with complete and utter joy...what WE will feel will be stratospheric in comparison. And I thank God each night that He felt me worthy enough to be a part of all this.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 10:31:39 PM
@Souza....nice post on the California seal.....it's one star too many. I guess the extra star must be for Michael ;)
I'd like to go back to the witness that was interviewed on the street. It was a woman that said she was a witness for Murray.....his assistant. I was looking around for witness guidelines and found an Orange County site that mentions a witness should not discuss the case in public areas etc.......
Blessings......
- "Do not discuss the case with any other witness or juror. Avoid discussing the case in public areas such as elevators, hallways, or the cafeteria – jurors or other witnesses may be present."http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=353 (http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=353)
I am have a hard time even wrapping my brain around this trial. I feel like it's for the public's sake, not ours. We know he's alive. We have been riding this wave for over 2 years. BeTheChange said it perfectly:"And we...the 'believers', the 'chosen ones', the 'true fans'...whatever you wanna call us...we got to see the master at work, in the most intimate of ways."
The trial is the continuation of This Is It.....the public is blind to it all, however. Many people don't even know it's going on. Why? Where have they been? I think he will BAM, and people will be like....."oh, yeah, I figured as much....Michael staging his own death....yada yada yada...." They will have completely missed the point. Ok....this post is freaking out....all on it's own......first the font, then spacebar, then delete.....all are doing wrong things.......I think it's possessed /cook/
I love the way you say it, wishingstar! I have missed only an hour of the trial and so far, I see the inconsistencies in each witness. Latoya had it right when she said "Kenny Ortega knows more than he's telling!" (btw why is she fucking tweeting during a murder trial with the victim being her brother?!?!). This trial has yet to disprove the theory of a Hoax! The defense team has looked tired for the first and second day: sleepy eyes, yawning, rubbing eyes, etc. They have only been in court for 2 days and they are already exhausted and tired? I have practicly watched the entire trial so far and I am wide AWAKE. I can't wait for it to begin again tomorrow.
My point is the defense team isn't even trying to save CM from being convicted. A defense team should be alert. They get paid a lot of money to be sharp and aware of each moment.
This court as TS has hinted:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vs5WsMOQ6kY/SJm_d_sJO1I/AAAAAAAAACA/tuBHaIBlp28/s400/Kangaroo+Court.jpg) <-------------Judge Michael Pastor
Post by: longlivetheking on September 28, 2011, 10:32:13 PM
The trial is a complete circus! After watching Majestic on Dr. Drew tonight...I'm convinced that Mike is enjoying this. Like literally kicking back, throwing popcorn in the air type of enjoyment. And, if so, he deserves to be entertained.
The 2 sentences I made bold and underlined made me think of the original Thriller video - smiley_spider - when MJ sits in the theater enjoying the movie and eating his popcorn with a HUGE smile! L.O.V.E.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 10:48:20 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 28, 2011, 10:57:22 PM
The trial is a complete circus! After watching Majestic on Dr. Drew tonight...I'm convinced that Mike is enjoying this. Like literally kicking back, throwing popcorn in the air type of enjoyment. And, if so, he deserves to be entertained.
The 2 sentences I made bold and underlined made me think of the original Thriller video - smiley_spider - when MJ sits in the theater enjoying the movie and eating his popcorn with a HUGE smile! L.O.V.E.
If you watch the theater scene in Thriller, MJ and Miko Brando are snickering at the movie while everyone else seems horrified. :lol:
That moment in Thriller is the clue from the past, the trial is the sequel to "This Is It" and the verdict will be the climax of the "Michael Jackson: On trial again" production and we will go into the Tribute Concert (which is supposed to take place during the trial) and then Life Of An Icon, which will tell the real story of Michael from people who actually know him on an intimate level and then....Thriller II in 3D? And then BAM. Simmering is in my analysis, when the timing is just right (just like the time during Victory Tour, Randy pulling the sheet AFTER Michael has disappeared. Timing is essential for any illusion). Michael will return. I just hope his legs aren't short! geek/
Maybe.
[youtube]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vs5WsMOQ6kY/SJm_d_sJO1I/AAAAAAAAACA/tuBHaIBlp28/s400/Kangaroo+Court.jpg[/youtube]
Post by: angel on September 28, 2011, 11:11:55 PM
Post by: MJonmind on September 28, 2011, 11:22:05 PM
So true!@Souza....nice post on the California seal.....it's one star too many. I guess the extra star must be for Michael ;)
Interesting thought. MJ has lived in California and stayed there. He has contributed so much to the state that he deserves a star. michael-jackson/
I still maintain that the 2 security gaurd witnesses seemed so completely natural and relaxed and very tight with their stories. I think that this is due to the skill of the defense and prosecuting lawyers skillfully avoiding any questions that would expose inconsistencies and the hoax. Murray of course isn't being questioned so anything could have gone on in that bedroom on a dummy or whatever, which is what Mohammed would have seen with it's eyes and mouth open. I'm reminded of that video with the 3 security highfiving each other for a hoax job well done, outside of UCLA. Chernoff has it right that Michael in doing his "acts" has created the "perfect storm". Perhaps media, legal, medical, financial will turn on each other as things progress. MJ/Front has anticipated their chess moves many moves ahead.
Quote
Souza
Oh my, I am watching CNN now and the reporters say how MJ was posing as if he were asleep and that when Murray left the room, he quickly got the Propofol and then killed himself.
I still think that's an option. Maybe we're getting all the truths of the hoax mixed in with other lies, and we just have to sort it all out.
Sarahli, you really have been the KEY finder here! And it's awesome all the things Front said, showing up the next day or so in the courtroom. Proves to me there's a script been followed, or his 8-ball really sees the future!
Post by: wishingstar on September 28, 2011, 11:41:57 PM
When posting issues arise:
-shut down your computer for period of 7 minutes
-make sure to save all your work because the elf that lives inside the keyboard will erase it all
-bring the forum back online, and moonwalk
-find your post in your "Thank God I Hit Save" file
-all posting issues should be fixed....however, if you can't moonwalk, you're screwed...open the merlot.
bearhug
@TheMoonIsDancing.......thanks for the post, you're a sweetheart! I noticed something the first day...it was a very odd look being exchanged from Murray to his lawyer seated next to him. It was while Kenny was on the stand. They looked at each deeply and nodded. His lawyer's expression almost says to me, "just stick to the script and it will be fine....we can do this" Anyways.....hope all is well!
Sending you both LOVE & HUGS.....and everyone else too!
Blessings
Post by: bec on September 29, 2011, 12:36:41 AM
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
100% respect and no tone intended, but are you from the US? Because that is not at all the case.
The DA could give a rip about pressure from anyone when it comes to victim's family and the public. They only bring cases they think they can win.
The single count of Manslaughter is strong piece of evidence supporting hoax court (DA=in on it). It's almost unheard of to bring a single count in a case like this.
I don't see the FBI Sting case being made on this thread, but what does trip me up is the 333 pages of FBI files released.
Now. How do we know there are 333 pages? Yes yes I know, do the math. But my point is, those documents were released via TMZ, correct? So who says all 333 pages are legit? One page off and it's no longer hoaxy. Who says any of them are legit? The DC is fake, the contract is fake, the will is fake. Why should we be so certain that the FBI files aren't fake?
Post by: bec on September 29, 2011, 12:37:51 AM
I think this is a hoax court "with STINGS attached". I think the prosecution knows, I think the judge knows, the defence knows and I think the jury knows. I also think that is why we had the delay between May and now. They questioned the potentials jurors back than and I think they needed the time to screen them, let them sign some papers and make sure they were up to date about this hoax court. The sting part is probably against the media and some of the witnesses, but that we will learn as the trial progresses.How would a trial against Murray be a sting on the media? IF this was a sting on the media all MJ would of had to do is fake his death, do the memorial, funeral, stay gone for a while during his play time with the media, then come back and BAM! Tell the media they got punked. IF the media was the target, after the BAM then everyone would know the media is full of shit and lies to the public but again there is still the trial. What would be the point in doing the trial to expose the media as liars?
The media is getting punked for sure but when thinking about a sting operation the targets are much bigger and dirtier than just some talking heads in front of the camera. The justice system with it's shady and corrupt actions are much more important in exposing. The DA is doing his job and going through the motions but he is not in on it. He is really thinking he has a case.
The trial is needed for the simple reason that the media should have an excuse to investigate. If he only faked his death, and no foul play was involved, there would be nothing to question. The family says he's dead, so that's it. But as soon as it is alleged that he was killed/murdered, the media would have an excuse to investigate the case and see the inconsistencies. But still they don't, not even when an innocent man is on trial. So for a 'sting' against the media, a trial IS needed in my opinion. But as I explained later on, I think the real sting is against certain people/organisations behind the curtain, and that this trial is also partly meant as a distraction, hence why the focus is only on Murray.
The trial is needed because it's the public show. Tired phrase by now, but this is indeed the Greatest Show on Earth. This is exactly what the media and the media watching public crave and desire and live for. 2 years were useful for engaging the ARG aspect of the hoax. An ARG that was only a few months long is a direct copycat of NiN's ARG and we all know MJ doesn't copy someone else's idea. He may be inspired by it, but his pattern of behavior reflects a man who isn't satisfied with being a copycat.
Also don't forget the numerology. The trial was needed to keep MJ in the news for over 2 years from the date of death. OBVIOUSLY there is a pre-planned BAM date that ties into some crucial numerology. There is a perfect bam date that is being waited for, as sure as 6/25/09 was the perfect day to die.
Don't forget the Sting on the fans; fake, straight non-believers, and fake believers alike.
What better way to kill 2 years while putting on this massive a show, and what better way to manipulate the media, the general public, and throngs of fans not getting the message to fall directly into your trap, and what better way to kick off a massive parallel ARG based on the media events surrounding "the investigation" then to stage a Hollywood Death Trial. History proves they are at the center of everyone's attention.
Michael isn't doing anything except providing these people with an opportunity, as you said Im_convinced, by dying in such a deliciously sinister, Hollywood True Crimes TV way... to ensure much notoriety and controversy and confusion... which begets curiosity... which begets gossip and rumor. The Sting that we are witnessing is less FBI and more LOL.
So why a trial and why 2 years? It had to be this way, to give rise to all that MJ wanted to do with this multi-media performance. It is huge. It is earth trembling. It is epic.
The defense most likely knows, well at least Murray does. The judge is also someone who is under investigation. The judge is someone who hands down a verdict so considering what TS said about that...QuoteWe also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts”The jury is a real jury. They really were pooled from the community. The reason I say that is because they filled out an extensive questionare and because of their answers many were let go. IF the jury was in on it the questionare would not even need to be part of the picture.
{http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)}.
The judge is in on it. He is the one setting the oh so 'coincidental' dates. Also, and I said that back in the other thread about sting vs. hoax: MJ was malicious prosecuted by the SB prosecution, not the LA prosecution. There is corruption everywhere, and only targeting this one court doesn't make sense. You might catch a judge and a DA, but you won't expose all the rest of the corrupt bunch.
And we do not know if the jury is real. They could be, but they could also have been picked from the first pool like I explained earlier. They had 4 months to screen them and (if necessary) contract them. Like TS says: Kangaroo court, or hoax court, which means the verdict is already known. That means the jury already have orders about their verdict.
Also (and I have mentioned this before as well) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him with many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?The first smoking gun for me (also indicating that the prosecution is in on it) was at the start of the DA's opening statement. Michael JOSEPH Jackson died. We all know for a very long time (and thank you Jermaine for confirming that in your book!) that his middle name is JOE. You really can't tell me that the prosecution wouldn't know. They read like we do, they must know his middle name is Joe, so if the sting would have been against them, they would have smelled a rat right at the beginning and I don't see them going through with the case against Murray.The DA's office isn't a hoaxer so they do not look at the middle name with hoaxy glasses on. They would not have any reason to think that MJ's middle name was different. They do not need to know his middle name to try to prosecute Murray.
If we go by your theory of sting court against DA (as well as others), then it would also be very likely (if he were dirty) that he would search the net all over for dirt on Murray, just like Sneddon did. Just type in 'Michael Jackson death' or 'Conrad Murray Court Case' and this forum will show up immediately. If he were dirty, he would have enough reson to know exactly what is said about the case as well, and I am sure he would have read about his middle name too. He can pull a BC in a second and as soon as he would have the confirmation on his real middle name, he would have smelled a rat. And let's not forget that the middle name is not the only obvious indication that this is a hoax. And this Walgren looks like a smart guy, so I don't buy it, that DA is definitely in on it.:idea: Voice recording, my what a deep voice you have Michael, lol. I don't understand how it is admissible for the Prosecutor to state that this recording is "proof of intoxication". There is simply no way that this could be considered proof of intoxication in a court of law. No objection from the Defense on it either.The fact that Chernoff didn't object and let the DA go on with this, tells me that the plan is to sort of 'remake' the 2005 trial with one huge difference: this time the innocent black man has a lousy lawyer that can't defend his client as he should. Which will make me think that Murray will be found guilty even though the evidence, if properly investigated, will prove the opposite.
The tape recording was not being introduced as evidence so no objection was needed. The tape was played during the DA's opening statements and was a part of their over view of what they were going to present. That was a strategic move on their part to plant a scary slurring image of MJ in the jurys minds.
Oh, but there were other objections during the opening statements. I know they can't come up with evidence or arguments, but it's not like they are free to say whatever they want. And I watched TMZ live this afternoon, and I noticed that Harvey was also surprised that there was no objection to that from the prosecution, and he's a lawyer, so apparently it is very normal to object in opening statements, evidence or not. You can influence a jury with your statement, and that is what Chernoff did. From day one he said: Klein is the guilty one, not Murray, because Klein addicted MJ to Demerol (not propofol). BS! "Objection! Hearsay Your Honer!".:idea: Prosecution: [the day before his death] 'Michael was excited about the Illusion that was to begin the next day'. Great, just great, that the Prosecution slipped that in.Ding dong, everyone paying attention? The DA even asked Kenny what that illusion meant, and Kenny answered that MJ would disappear from a bed. I wonder how many people noticed that huge 'coincidence'. :lol:During the DA's opening statements he was telling the jury what Kenny had stated about the Illusion and that they would be hearing about that from Kenny. The DA was just repeating what Kenny had said during the pre-liminary hearings. The DA was saying that after Kenny told MJ about the Illusion starting the next day MJ was excited. The DA was using that as an example to show MJ was in a good mood. This was a strategic move to show MJ was not feeling ill and to give the impression MJ was healthy on the day Kenny told him of the Illusion..
Kenny is not the only one who said Mike was in good spirits that day. He could have easily said "You will learn from several witnesses during the trial that Michael Jackson was fit and in good spirits the night before he died...". But instead of saying that, he decided the very hoaxy of the illusion. Coincidence? Maybe, but I happen not to believe in them.:idea: Murray's email at 11:15am on 6/25/09, 'all press reports regarding Michael Jackson's health are fallacious'. That's an incredible true statement. Blink and you'll miss it type.Ding dong again!Murray's email to the Insurer was a response to their questioning MJ's health based on what they were reading in the news. Murray was reasurring the insurance company that MJ is well and the news reports about his health is fallacious. smiley_spider
Don't we all know that? Hahahahaha, he had to be healthy enough to at least not die. If anything, we know THAT for sure.
I am actually waiting for TS and his far-fetched murder theories. I agree on too many points with you to really have much satisfaction in challenging your statements, lol. I wanna kick some ass! TS???? Come play when you're done doing what you're doing. lolol/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 12:40:42 AM
Oh wow just now saw the cleaned up version of the pic and there's still no aura!!! :'(
OMG, he MUST be dead then... :?
LOL Souza you are too funny lolol/ . I also feel strange things in my stomach reading you sometimes :shock: WTF?? .
But the aura thing is no joking matter. I trust he has no aura in the photo because I do not believe it is a photo but a painting. In a painting he can not have an aura.
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 12:44:21 AM
suspicious//
Post by: Mish1981 on September 29, 2011, 12:52:43 AM
QuoteAlso (and I have mentioned this before too) if the DA was not in on it, and they would suspect him being corrupt, then so far he has shown he's not very focussed to get Murray in jail. He only charged him with one count, while he could have charged him on many more. That doesn't make sense either. And if he was corrupt in the way that he would want to save Murray from jail, even if he were guilty, then why prosecute him at all?
@Souza-The DA is prejudice towards MJ and therefore they didn't even try to prosecute Murray at all in the beginning. The DA only took the case because of pressure from the family and they only could charge Murray with Involuntary Manslaughter based on the laws definition. The LAPD let the house be open on the same day of MJ's death. They didn't even bother to try to see if more was going on in the house. They didn't question anyone that day. Some pages back I provided definitions of Homicide and Criminal Homicide specifically Involuntary Manslaughter. I also provided an article where a spokeswoman from the DA's office said they didn't have the case, they weren't charging Murray and reports of that was bogus. That article was from Jan. 2010 fresse/
The FBI is involved and IF they think and choose to investigate and take down (with MJ's help) the LA court system then there ya go. It doesn't have to be a vendetta from MJ just because of his trial in Santa Barbara. I already said I would only spend so much time debating on one subject so I think we both presented our arguements well. Let it ride...black 27 /woohoo/
Just one last thing: It still doesn't make sense. "Under pressure of the family?" Since when does the (corrupt) DA's office listen to the family? If they wouldn't want Murray in jail, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. If there was no case, there was no case, period. And they would have been right, because there is indeed no case, because Mike is alive.
One last thing. In America The Jackson Family has clout. They are a very famous and powerful family. If they pressured the DA with the help of the public then it gets done. The Jackson Family is American royalty and a huge part of History. michael-jackson/
100% respect and no tone intended, but are you from the US? Because that is not at all the case.
The DA could give a rip about pressure from anyone when it comes to victim's family and the public. They only bring cases they think they can win.
The single count of Manslaughter is strong piece of evidence supporting hoax court (DA=in on it). It's almost unheard of to bring a single count in a case like this.
I don't see the FBI Sting case being made on this thread, but what does trip me up is the 333 pages of FBI files released.
Now. How do we know there are 333 pages? Yes yes I know, do the math. But my point is, those documents were released via TMZ, correct? So who says all 333 pages are legit? One page off and it's no longer hoaxy. Who says any of them are legit? The DC is fake, the contract is fake, the will is fake. Why should we be so certain that the FBI files aren't fake?
While the Jackson family is huge and they have several voices that want to be heard, they aren't that big in the US as some might think. I also don't think that they are going to just have control over what a DA or their office is going or not going to do. If that were the case then all the Jackson's had to do was make a phone call to the courts and the 2005 trial would of never happened. What about all of the other times MJ had gone to court over his music, again never would of happened if all it took was to have the last name Jackson. I hope that didn't come across too harsh.
I can't remember but did anyone else report about the 333 pages from the FBI or was it just TMZ? I haven't made up my mind on whether it's a hoax court or sting, I'm still on the fence about it. I'm very interested in hearing all sides though.
Post by: Grace on September 29, 2011, 01:03:09 AM
Even regular tabloids have their share of a live stream now which they never offered before.
I agree the trial is required for the public and the media payback layer in this disappearance.
I guess in case they smelled the fish they are just so much trying to keep their pants on that they have no free hand left to reasearch and type the truth. (Sorry if I am getting pathetic here LOL)
I am however still following the corruption path on another layer and still think if one would like to reveal the background structures, one needs to let true corruption be part of the game. Kangaroo court says it all to me.
So I stick to hoax as a means of sting and murder in the sense of depriving of essential human life conditions and rights. All three apply, yet the murder was not taking place in 2009.
Post by: bec on September 29, 2011, 01:21:09 AM
Whatever it is, I think it's a lesson. This is a test. What do you assume about this pic? The prosecution hasn't said that it's Michael Jackson's corpse. This has just been eluded to so far and most are assuming from there.
What was this pic?
(http://www.media.desicolours.com/2009/june/michael-hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy.jpg)
Was this MJ sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber because he thought the bizarre notion that it would prevent him from aging? (immortality, just noticed that) Or did he just crawl inside and have his pic taken for fun and to fool people?
Well that truth has since come to light.
So what do you think the truth is about this pic?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Post by: bec on September 29, 2011, 01:26:28 AM
Who painted it?
suspicious//
I think we can safely connect the dots on this one and determine that if it's a painting, Michael painted it.
Ps. Btw, there a very distinct triangle or pyramid shape on the MJ's torso in that D.E.A.T.H. pic (Boo! fresse/ ). I guess that means the Illuminati killed him.
There. Who needs TS. I just proved murder single-handedly.
Post by: bec on September 29, 2011, 02:23:12 AM
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
I forgot to mention this one.
I think this proves hoax court beyond a reasonable doubt. It's undeniable. That's not the Official California State Seal. There is only one reason for this fake seal.
Post by: Bianca28 on September 29, 2011, 02:25:38 AM
Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Post by: curls on September 29, 2011, 02:31:36 AM
Post by: curls on September 29, 2011, 02:44:06 AM
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../../images/seals.png)
I forgot to mention this one.
I think this proves hoax court beyond a reasonable doubt. It's undeniable. That's not the Official California State Seal. There is only one reason for this fake seal.
Round one to Bec and her Hoax Court!
Also, look at the bear and the leaves at the bottom of the seal - it's mouth seems to be closed on the fake one and the 'leaves' appear to be missing on the fake, but are VERY familiar! Maybe it's just an optical illusion with one being a drawing and the other a photo ... maybe!
Post by: _Anna_ on September 29, 2011, 03:07:02 AM
31 stars
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-czo2mnj9oIg/Tg33W3hWTnI/AAAAAAAAAF0/ueArwipmSEU/s1600/Great%2BSeal.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-czo2mnj9oIg/Tg33W3hWTnI/AAAAAAAAAF0/ueArwipmSEU/s1600/Great%2BSeal.jpg)
31 stars
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/57800/57872/57872_ca_seal_lg.gif (http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/57800/57872/57872_ca_seal_lg.gif)
31 stars and great photo of the seal
http://v10.lscache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/12736716.jpg (http://v10.lscache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/12736716.jpg)
Not even if changes had been made, in case there was a new state, it wouldn't change California's number. california was the 31st, anything that could come after it, it would be 32, 33. Are these stars really meaning California is the 31st state and therefore there are 31 stars in the official seal? Could they mean something else?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 03:18:52 AM
I guess this is official?
31 stars.
What changes were made in 1937?
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 29, 2011, 03:32:09 AM
Did anyone tried calling the numbers they showed in court today?
I did ;D, but only on one number, the CM's mobile number 702-809-3747 and a very pissed off lady picked up the phone. She scared me :?, so i hang up. I wish i was not that shy and i wish i would be able to ask WHY she is piking up this phone? If CM changed his phone number, then i would ask her how she got it. But i am such a coward :oops. Maybe one of you guys, can call her and talk to her.
The trial looks so staged to me, why would they show all these phone numbers on TV? i mean normally they would cover up information like that. Remember the FBI files, because they are real, they were blacking out all the names, which we did not need to know and all the other personal information.
Some of the people in chat called some of the phone numbers but they didn't work...I bet she was upset because so many people called her...lol
Anyway why did Michael Williams record his phone call of Murray, like you said Kristina, he could of just shown the police his phone...during the testimony and how he answered sounded like he was suspicious of Murray early on, like not wanting to take him back to the house.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 03:36:06 AM
I guess this official and it says that the great seal of California has 31 stars.
Is this one the DETAILS we had to notice?
MrMichael24 you have eagle eyes...you were just added on my suspects "black list" :lol:
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 03:51:33 AM
Could be a painting. Possible.
Whatever it is, I think it's a lesson. This is a test. What do you assume about this pic? The prosecution hasn't said that it's Michael Jackson's corpse. This has just been eluded to so far and most are assuming from there.
What was this pic?
(http://www.media.desicolours.com/2009/june/michael-hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy.jpg)
Was this MJ sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber because he thought the bizarre notion that it would prevent him from aging? (immortality, just noticed that) Or did he just crawl inside and have his pic taken for fun and to fool people?
So what do you think the truth is about this pic?
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
I guess playing sick/dead/weird/crazy/nuts it's his favourite game OMG!
Post by: MissG on September 29, 2011, 03:59:49 AM
After watching the trial yesterday (I could only get the part with the head of Security) I get the impression that the trial is going towards the murder theory.
The head of security was not in his position when all happened, he was in the bank. For what?. The bank scenario made me think of:
-abandonment as not being in his position as head of security
-fishy situation.Why was he at the bank? did he get money just to be away when all happened?
Also, the guy "can´t recall"... :roll: we all remember what were doing, where we were and even clothes or people around us when we found out that Michael "died".
How convinient that there are no cameras at the entrance, that the head of security was gone and that all happened when Murray was in the wc.
I can see the scenario; Murray goes to the wc and someone goes in Michael´s room, knowing that: security is not around and Murray is chatting with his mistress, taking that as the oportunity to poison Michael.
Murray is not guilty and Michael did not kill himself, someone else tried to.
Post by: Aidan_81 on September 29, 2011, 05:28:55 AM
After watching the trial yesterday (I could only get the part with the head of Security) I get the impression that the trial is going towards the murder theory.
- I get same feeling so far [heh, more likely to make jurors doubt than defence initial idea
of drugged Michael with IV suddenly waking up, finding all the meds in 2 mins
around him and drinking it! :roll:]
Let's wait for the rest of trial/witnesses..
/judge/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 06:51:33 AM
I don't know how it tastes but I imagine it's not good so how can someone drink it?
We had a singer in my country who was found dead one year ago in her house she was only around 40 and they discovered some poisen in her stomach and they said she drank it (a whole glass) so they closed the case as suicide but now it is open again ...some people say a person can not DRINK that substance for many reasons. The suspicions are against her husband now.
Anyway, it is difficult to imagine someone can drink propofol in such a quantity to cause death. I guess if you drink a little you can't possibly drink the rest of it fresse/.
Even though TMZ said 6 students mad ethe experiment and they survived suspicious//.
Post by: Aidan_81 on September 29, 2011, 07:10:30 AM
I don't believe Michael drank propofol.
- it's impossible to believe really, I laughed when heard it.. thought it's tabloid rumour.
And 2nd, it hardly will kill you - maybe upset stomach later :roll:
And really - here we have Michael already on heavy drugs, asleep, full bladder,
catheter, IV in his leg, all that stuff.. waking up [orly?], looking around, grabbing all the medicine
he finds and consuming it.. then falling dead immediately, on the bed..
all while Murray is in the bathroom, wasn't it for 2 minutes? {that's a lie
by itself IMHO, hoax or not, i think if there was "bathroom" then must be more
than couple mins?}
Oh, and no pills found later in stomach? Traces of propofol mean nothing, considering
the amount of it in blood. This is crazy idea and I doubt defence
can be serious with that one. Surprises might follow.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 07:24:51 AM
Michael Pastor is a real judge? On the official list of judges?
People who live there could answer this, please?
Post by: 2good2btrue on September 29, 2011, 07:28:36 AM
Post by: _Anna_ on September 29, 2011, 07:29:30 AM
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/seals/ca_seal.htm
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 07:31:58 AM
http://www.custodymatch.com/judges-los-angeles.cfm
And there is a Michael E. Pastor there listed as a Los Angeles County Judge.
Is he our judge?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 07:39:43 AM
Post by: TheRunningGirl on September 29, 2011, 08:04:50 AM
I counted them 5 times... 32 in the one TMZ showed, 31 in the original. Also I searched for seals:
31 stars
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-czo2mnj9oIg/Tg33W3hWTnI/AAAAAAAAAF0/ueArwipmSEU/s1600/Great%2BSeal.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-czo2mnj9oIg/Tg33W3hWTnI/AAAAAAAAAF0/ueArwipmSEU/s1600/Great%2BSeal.jpg)
31 stars
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/57800/57872/57872_ca_seal_lg.gif (http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/57800/57872/57872_ca_seal_lg.gif)
31 stars and great photo of the seal
http://v10.lscache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/12736716.jpg (http://v10.lscache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/12736716.jpg)
Not even if changes had been made, in case there was a new state, it wouldn't change California's number. california was the 31st, anything that could come after it, it would be 32, 33. Are these stars really meaning California is the 31st state and therefore there are 31 stars in the official seal? Could they mean something else?
That's why there is a hoax numerology! So that we can see that all of it was planned in advance and KEEP the FAITH.
The number 32 is mirror image of 23 that can be seen on the cover of the Michael Album in what appeared to be a MODIFIED version of the DANGEROUS Mask:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/cjcntx/23onMichaelCD.jpg)
Reference & Credit to Touchedbyanangel: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=162&t=19278#p334250 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=162&t=19278#p334250)
Joe was even photographed with a seal back in March 2011: :)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBRoe97OUtpKDQ1_EIjeC1zfAEWKrz9mBZ9ltqdXeHSll5sc67otRAPGC_)
And there are many others very interesting date connections with 32/23, here are a few examples:
- TS First comment under TS_Comments on 2/3/2011
- Bashir interview was broadast in the UK 2/3/2003
- Dancing MACHINE, the single, was released 2/3/1974. And pretty much defined Michael as the human Dancing MACHINE FOREVER MORE!. (Michael was said to have referred to his body as a MACHINE according to trial testimonies)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RngHriQXOoY[/youtube]
It is GENIUS stuff!
/bravo/
With L.O.V.E
Post by: paula-c on September 29, 2011, 08:25:54 AM
OMG! Majestic is on Dr. Drew right now and he said he wished Nancy Disgrace was still on Drew's show because he wanted to give her some words. He says I don't like Nancy. I forgot to add he said he didn't like the way she did MJ during the 2005 trial. rr/
Nancy Disgrace on her show kept calling MJ a junkie and a junkie for 20 years. Then every one of her guests (except Lou) she spoke to after that they kept referring to MJ as a junkie period.
I also heard about the whole possum and playing sleep defense. lmao
Souza-The difference of power between MJ and his family is MJ is the one who has the stigma of the pedo accusations. He is also the one who has been singing to the world on a level that TPTB don't want to ever let that happen again.
And those who believe that this woman, Diane Diamond acting on their own initiative, or Martin Bashir do what he did with his interview with Michael that was why he occur that are wrong, they are mercenaries from the media and they are the arm of the TBPT to defame, assassinate morally to people, all of this in exchange for money.
Post by: miranda on September 29, 2011, 09:57:07 AM
The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Post by: BeTheChange on September 29, 2011, 10:10:50 AM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 10:23:51 AM
latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
@CNN @hlntv Please every1 listen carefully 2 every word N the courtroom & read between the lines.
atoyajackson La Toya Jackson
“@backed12: @latoyajackson do you think there are more parties involved with Mjs death x” MOST DEFINITELY! A conspiracy to MURDER & STEAL!
latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
“@Tupacaveli: @latoyajackson if Murrey is found guilty, will u continue to pursue the others u feel are involved in MJ's death?” YES! YES!
"Read between the lines" ???? ???/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 10:24:59 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 10:26:11 AM
Tupacaveli :shock: ???
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 29, 2011, 10:30:41 AM
@CNN @hlntv Please every1 listen carefully 2 every word N the courtroom & read between the lines.
1 hour ago
It's not so much what she says but what is written...there we have the N again.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 10:44:04 AM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 10:47:59 AM
The list of the prosecution includes:
Kenneth “Kenny” Ortega – Director & choreographer
Paul Gongaware – AEG Live CEO
Michael Williams – Michael Jackson’s Personal Assistant
Faheem Muhammad – Head of Michael Jackson’s security detail
Alberto Alvarez – Michael Jackson’s director of logistics
Kai Chase – Michael Jackson’s personal chef
Richard Senneff – Los Angeles fire fighter/paramedic
Martin Blount – Los Angeles fire fighter/paramedic
Harry Daliwal – Regional retail sales manager with AT&T, retrieved text messages from Murray’s phone
Jeff Strohn – Records custodian for Sprint/Nextel
Dr. Richelle Cooper – Physician working at the UCLA Medical Center emergency room the day Michael Jackson was brought in
Dr. Thao Nguyen – Cardiology fellow at UCLA, s present in the emergency room when Jackson was brought in
Dan Myers – Senior Homicide Detective with the LAPD
Sade Anding – Houston cocktail waitress who dated Conrad Murray, she was on the phone with Murray when Michael Jackson went into distress
Bridgette Morgan – Friend of Conrad Murray, she called him 30 minutes before Jackson went into distress
Nicole Alvarez – Actress and ex-girlfriend of Conrad Murray, with whom he had a child in April 2009
Elissa Fleak – Investigator for the Los Angeles County Coroner
Stephen Marx – DEA computer forensics examiner
Tim Lopez – Pharmacist, testified Conrad Murray purchased several drugs including propofol
Jaime Lintemoot – Senior Criminalist for the Los Angeles County Coroner
Orlando Martinez – LAPD Detective
Dr. Christopher Rogers – Forensic pathologist with the L.A. County Coroner’s Office
Dr. Richard Ruffalo – Anesthesiologist and clinical pharmacologist
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 10:48:55 AM
Just couple of random comments:
- it's so amazing to hear so many drug company ads on HLN....almost every break....and there was an ad for Passages an addiction help center in Malibu.
- Nancy Grace truly is tacky....tacky....she managed to plug her dancing in twice while talking on a phone interview right now.....
Blessings...
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 29, 2011, 10:53:50 AM
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 10:56:36 AM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 11:09:59 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 29, 2011, 11:12:25 AM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Bianca28 on September 29, 2011, 11:20:23 AM
Sorry but I think you're wrong. The only thing that's clear in the upper left is 2011. On the first calendar in the first row on the left top-down, that are the dates from sunday. Sunday the third wasn't in May. All the dates and days fits in october, november and december. Either way it still isn't an explanation for the missing days.The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 11:22:14 AM
My husband who serves in the navy took a class about etiquette and what to wear and what not to wear at interviews, court hearings, etc...its always a dark grey or dark blue suit, solid tie...that suit just screams out to me as being rather odd....
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 11:29:26 AM
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 12:24:22 PM
This experience is amazing....I have the trial going online, I have HLN news going....I am pausing back and forth and using mute. While the trial goes and goes, HLN takes breaks for commercials, then will interject from time to time their own thoughts/opinions.....making the public totally miss some of the trial points themselves. The press fills in their thoughts.....it's not much time, but they take away moments only to fill in the public with their words. The only way to really understand it is do both...you really get a sense of how the press manipulates/emphasizes things.....easily swaying public's opinions. I hope I am making sense...........
I wonder just how much the public missed during the 2005 trial......what a different account we would have of public opinion if we could have been inside the courtroom then. After experiencing this trial like this, I can totally see how easy it is for the media/press to sway opinions. We are experiencing HIStory...truly.
BTW....how would Michael have opened all that propofol...those little vials are not exactly screw top. Did I miss something?
Blessings
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 12:38:18 PM
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 12:44:57 PM
32 again......
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 12:46:52 PM
BUT
What would be his agenda in "framing" Dr Murray? MJ was on trial for molestation, an INNOCENT man put on trial for a crime he didn't commit, isn't Murray experiencing the same thing? Or is this a lesson of some sort? Or is there something we don't know about Dr Murray that MJ had suspicions of?
Post by: miranda on September 29, 2011, 12:47:33 PM
Sorry but I think you're wrong. The only thing that's clear in the upper left is 2011. On the first calendar in the first row on the left top-down, that are the dates from sunday. Sunday the third wasn't in May. All the dates and days fits in october, november and december. Either way it still isn't an explanation for the missing days.The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
;D I've take a look again and now I know what's the failur. :idea: Calender in Germany (and I think in Eureopa too) starten there lines on MONDAY and not on Sunday like the american one's. Than it's of course a calender for october. Sorry for that bow/ :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 12:50:18 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 02:02:55 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J72ctoVoq3I[/youtube]
Post by: PureLove on September 29, 2011, 02:21:33 PM
Before I forget, because I promised to post this, and IMO it's another proof of HOAX court. The seal the livestream is showing when the court is not in session, has 32 stars on is, instead of 31. As I understood it, it means that California was the 31st state, so that can't ever increase. Yet there are 32 stars (Minnesota is the 32nd state). So even the seal is fake. Details anyone?
Credit to monstertooty in chat for counting the stars and noticing!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../../images/seals.png)
I forgot to mention this one.
I think this proves hoax court beyond a reasonable doubt. It's undeniable. That's not the Official California State Seal. There is only one reason for this fake seal.
Round one to Bec and her Hoax Court!
Also, look at the bear and the leaves at the bottom of the seal - it's mouth seems to be closed on the fake one and the 'leaves' appear to be missing on the fake, but are VERY familiar! Maybe it's just an optical illusion with one being a drawing and the other a photo ... maybe!
:lol:
Agreed curls. And how interesting that there're no "leaves" on the fake one. Like we never talked about "leaves". :mrgreen:
Post by: PureLove on September 29, 2011, 02:27:34 PM
Joe was even photographed with a seal back in March 2011: :)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBRoe97OUtpKDQ1_EIjeC1zfAEWKrz9mBZ9ltqdXeHSll5sc67otRAPGC_)
/bravo/ Nice catch runninggirl. So, that was the reason why Joe posed with that SEAL. :mrgreen:
Post by: SimPattyK on September 29, 2011, 02:37:01 PM
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/KC.jpg)
[. . .]
Is that a KANGAROO in Elvis' photo ? :lol: :lol:
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1117/26209817310962275332713.jpg)
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1117/26209817310962275332713.jpg)
@ TS: I'm happy to see you back! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/chirolp_wink.gif)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2087/elviskangaroo.jpg)
Post by: curls on September 29, 2011, 02:42:07 PM
@Bianca, they're doubled up with 23rd and 24th - a common thing to do on a calendar to save starting a 6th line.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 29, 2011, 03:00:45 PM
Something has just hit me light a bolt of lightening......
This experience is amazing....I have the trial going online, I have HLN news going....I am pausing back and forth and using mute. While the trial goes and goes, HLN takes breaks for commercials, then will interject from time to time their own thoughts/opinions.....making the public totally miss some of the trial points themselves. The press fills in their thoughts.....it's not much time, but they take away moments only to fill in the public with their words. The only way to really understand it is do both...you really get a sense of how the press manipulates/emphasizes things.....easily swaying public's opinions. I hope I am making sense...........
I wonder just how much the public missed during the 2005 trial......what a different account we would have of public opinion if we could have been inside the courtroom then. After experiencing this trial like this, I can totally see how easy it is for the media/press to sway opinions. We are experiencing HIStory...truly.
BTW....how would Michael have opened all that propofol...those little vials are not exactly screw top. Did I miss something?
Blessings
About the media 'portrayal' of the trial...the saying "having his day in court" takes on a whole new meaning when you listen to these media mouth-foamers. They've literally already tried and found Murray 'guilty' based on 4 prosecution witness accounts...and the defence has yet to even present its case.
Based on the first couple of days in court...sure, it doesn't look good for Murray. And when ALL is said and done (if this were a real trial)...the evidence may overwhelmingly show that Murray is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. BUT we're on Day 2 of a trial that PRESUMES INNOCENCE until PROVEN GUILTY...with many more witnesses to come...and with the defence nowhere near presenting their case. Yet, if it was up to the media...the trial could end right now cause they think he's guilty.
It's like deja-vu all the way back to 2005.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 03:12:53 PM
Okay, some notes before it starts again:
According to the seal, I noticed that the judge but extra sympathy on exhibit 32. He mentioned it a lot, at least 5, or maybe even 7? lol times). The fake seal has 32 stars, which is not correct. Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV?? WTF?? Okay...
But the judge mentioned it a few times, then said that exhibit 31 (31 starts) was the actual thing (911 call in this case) and 32 was a copy, written by someone else (transcript for the jury). I thought that was pretty interesting.
When the DA asked Alvarez if June 24th (taking back MJ from rehearsal to house) was the last time he saw MJ alive, Alvarez responded: "That was the last time I saw him, sir." Without saying that it was the last time he saw him alive. Nervous? Maybe, but he could have just said "Yes, sir." which is a way easier and shorter phrase when you are nervous and want to get over with it. But after that of course he says that he saw him again on June 25th in that room when calling 911.
Another thing which made me laugh out loud, is how he described the IV bag. It was cut open and there was a Propofol bottle thrown into it upside down, and he saw a milky white substance on the bottom of the bag. He saw Murray performing CPR on the bed with one hand and said that when they transported MJ to the ground, that Murray went on to do mouth-to-mouth while Alvarez took over CPR and murray said: "This is the first time I do mouth-to-mouth, but I have to because he is my friend.
A review, real doctor against Murray:
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
So they can call it manslaughter, abandonement or whatever, but if this would really have happened, as they want us to believe, the media should get off of their lazy asses, and at least investigate if Murray is a doctor at all. Why is no one questioning that? Why can stuff like that be said in a court of law and taken for truth? And this could be a good thing for Murray, because it's more likely that MJ would have done that himself out of frustration, not knowing how to get the propofol in the IV bag properly, than that a licenced doctor would have done it that way. This day seems to be a good one for Connie so far.
Alvarez says he has been approached by the media to talk about the case, offered up to 500 grant, but he never did it. Then he says he has huge financial problems, that he doesn't have a full time job anymore, or the nice income he had. That other people only want to hire him to get information about the case etc. But if so, why is he offering Lindsay Lohan his services FOR FREE? Doesn't make sense in my book.
Cross-examination is still on-going, but Ed is going to make an interesting point after the break I think. They are discussing the timeline in order to figure out when and how they were hiding the Propofol bottles (there they are again, nice hint TS. Seems like you knew that the bottles would become a big thing in this whole circus) and Alvarez is getting very nervous, because as far as I can see, there is no way he had time to even fart in between before calling 911.
Also interesting, maybe nothing but it reminded me of the drawing that Chandler made (the penis aka mushroom) for the prosecution back in '93. The DA showed a drawing that Alvarez made of the IV bag, which he made in May 2011 (btw: no bottle in it). The defense though had another one, also made by Alvarez on August 31, 2009 and this drawing differed from the one made in 2011. It was said that the one made in 2009 was because the prosecution asked Alvarez for it. Alvarez said he could not recall drawing that picture. (Yet he could recall the tiniest detail of what happened in the room on June 25, up to the angle that the propofol was laying in the IV bag.)
That's it for now. Can't wait for the rest.
ps: off topic, but also not: I asked monstertooty in chat if she could call a coroner for me to ask if your legal name should be on your DC. The answer was yes. The legal name as it was at the time of your death, MUST be stated on the DC. It does not have to be the same as on the BC if you legally changed it somewhere in between, but if you never changed your name, it should be the exact name as listed on your birth certificate. If not, the DC is INVALID. We know from Jermaine's book that Michael's real name is Michael Joe, as stated on his BC. We also know he still had that name in 2005, when he was on trial. According Jermaine, the 'Joseph' name, is a rumour, and never does he mention that Michael changed his name to Joseph. So I think we can safely conclude (again) that the DC is INVALID, just like many other legal documents we have seen.
Post by: PureLove on September 29, 2011, 03:23:49 PM
Quote
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
:lol:
OMG Souza, this is hilarious really. I can not believe people believe this. And like you wrote, it is very interesting that NOONE asked if Murray is a real doctor. All these things are like putting a finger in the blind eye but still people are sleeping. :?
Post by: longlivetheking on September 29, 2011, 03:24:47 PM
Something has just hit me light a bolt of lightening......
This experience is amazing....I have the trial going online, I have HLN news going....I am pausing back and forth and using mute. While the trial goes and goes, HLN takes breaks for commercials, then will interject from time to time their own thoughts/opinions.....making the public totally miss some of the trial points themselves. The press fills in their thoughts.....it's not much time, but they take away moments only to fill in the public with their words. The only way to really understand it is do both...you really get a sense of how the press manipulates/emphasizes things.....easily swaying public's opinions. I hope I am making sense...........
I wonder just how much the public missed during the 2005 trial......what a different account we would have of public opinion if we could have been inside the courtroom then. After experiencing this trial like this, I can totally see how easy it is for the media/press to sway opinions. We are experiencing HIStory...truly.
BTW....how would Michael have opened all that propofol...those little vials are not exactly screw top. Did I miss something?
Blessings
I agree - I noticed on the very first day of the trial - when HLN recapped the trial they played the so-called MJ recording and they stopped after the "Go. Go." section - they NEVER played the entire recording to show that MJ wanted to use the $ TO HELP CHILDREN!!! Totally made me >:( ...
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 03:31:11 PM
But I've never seen Michael's BC.
Post by: Grace on September 29, 2011, 03:34:45 PM
It's 32 stars and stripes, indicating that it's a U.S. affair and not Caliland related.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/US_flag_32_stars.svg/800px-US_flag_32_stars.svg.png)
Post by: _Anna_ on September 29, 2011, 03:40:33 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_California)
"The Great Seal of the State of California was adopted at the California state Constitutional Convention of 1849 and has undergone minor design changes since then, the last being the standardization of the seal in 1937. The seal features the Roman goddess Minerva, the goddess of wisdom and war; a California grizzly bear (the official state animal) feeding on grape vines, representing California's wine production; a sheaf of grain, representing agriculture; a miner, representing the California Gold Rush and the mining industry; and sailing ships, representing the state's economic power. The phrase "Eureka," meaning "I have found it!" is the California state motto."
Post by: Grace on September 29, 2011, 03:46:41 PM
Anything else would be blatant fingerpointing, would be boring, might cause unnecessary trouble and could be "un-wise" as well.
This is hoax court fitting into hoax concerts, hoax tributes, hoax interviews, hoax statements.
The seal is not the correct official seal. It is one that was placed there "as if".
"stage prop" if you like.
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 03:54:29 PM
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/Lists/state_seals.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/Lists/state_seals.html)
As if we don't already have much to read, lol. Just a good link for those interested.....
Blessings
Post by: _Anna_ on September 29, 2011, 04:03:19 PM
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 04:05:42 PM
I live in San Diego and heard a few days ago Murray had a San Diego connection, he was a DR at
Sharp Memorial Hospital in San Diego which is in Kearny Mesa...
Now I don't know after 1999 if he came back to California , BUT....Blanket's birth certificate lists
Sharp Grossmont Hospital
5555 Grossmont Center Drive, La Mesa, CA 91942
may or may not be something to look into....
Post by: Andrea on September 29, 2011, 04:22:20 PM
I think him saying he never sold his story tells us a lot. He is staying loyal to Michael and is remaining trustworthy.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 04:45:20 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 04:48:08 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 04:49:59 PM
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 04:51:40 PM
It doesn't make sense and actually reminds me of Front's ILLusional front.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 04:54:24 PM
This is a very interesting day so far, and we still get more!
Okay, some notes before it starts again:
According to the seal, I noticed that the judge but extra sympathy on exhibit 32. He mentioned it a lot, at least 5, or maybe even 7? lol times). The fake seal has 32 stars, which is not correct. Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV?? WTF?? Okay...
But the judge mentioned it a few times, then said that exhibit 31 (31 starts) was the actual thing (911 call in this case) and 32 was a copy, written by someone else (transcript for the jury). I thought that was pretty interesting.
When the DA asked Alvarez if June 24th (taking back MJ from rehearsal to house) was the last time he saw MJ alive, Alvarez responded: "That was the last time I saw him, sir." Without saying that it was the last time he saw him alive. Nervous? Maybe, but he could have just said "Yes, sir." which is a way easier and shorter phrase when you are nervous and want to get over with it. But after that of course he says that he saw him again on June 25th in that room when calling 911.
Another thing which made me laugh out loud, is how he described the IV bag. It was cut open and there was a Propofol bottle thrown into it upside down, and he saw a milky white substance on the bottom of the bag. He saw Murray performing CPR on the bed with one hand and said that when they transported MJ to the ground, that Murray went on to do mouth-to-mouth while Alvarez took over CPR and murray said: "This is the first time I do mouth-to-mouth, but I have to because he is my friend.
A review, real doctor against Murray:
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
So they can call it manslaughter, abandonement or whatever, but if this would really have happened, as they want us to believe, the media should get off of their lazy asses, and at least investigate if Murray is a doctor at all. Why is no one questioning that? Why can stuff like that be said in a court of law and taken for truth? And this could be a good thing for Murray, because it's more likely that MJ would have done that himself out of frustration, not knowing how to get the propofol in the IV bag properly, than that a licenced doctor would have done it that way. This day seems to be a good one for Connie so far.
Alvarez says he has been approached by the media to talk about the case, offered up to 500 grant, but he never did it. Then he says he has huge financial problems, that he doesn't have a full time job anymore, or the nice income he had. That other people only want to hire him to get information about the case etc. But if so, why is he offering Lindsay Lohan his services FOR FREE? Doesn't make sense in my book.
Cross-examination is still on-going, but Ed is going to make an interesting point after the break I think. They are discussing the timeline in order to figure out when and how they were hiding the Propofol bottles (there they are again, nice hint TS. Seems like you knew that the bottles would become a big thing in this whole circus) and Alvarez is getting very nervous, because as far as I can see, there is no way he had time to even fart in between before calling 911.
Also interesting, maybe nothing but it reminded me of the drawing that Chandler made (the penis aka mushroom) for the prosecution back in '93. The DA showed a drawing that Alvarez made of the IV bag, which he made in May 2011 (btw: no bottle in it). The defense though had another one, also made by Alvarez on August 31, 2009 and this drawing differed from the one made in 2011. It was said that the one made in 2009 was because the prosecution asked Alvarez for it. Alvarez said he could not recall drawing that picture. (Yet he could recall the tiniest detail of what happened in the room on June 25, up to the angle that the propofol was laying in the IV bag.)
That's it for now. Can't wait for the rest.
ps: off topic, but also not: I asked monstertooty in chat if she could call a coroner for me to ask if your legal name should be on your DC. The answer was yes. The legal name as it was at the time of your death, MUST be stated on the DC. It does not have to be the same as on the BC if you legally changed it somewhere in between, but if you never changed your name, it should be the exact name as listed on your birth certificate. If not, the DC is INVALID. We know from Jermaine's book that Michael's real name is Michael Joe, as stated on his BC. We also know he still had that name in 2005, when he was on trial. According Jermaine, the 'Joseph' name, is a rumour, and never does he mention that Michael changed his name to Joseph. So I think we can safely conclude (again) that the DC is INVALID, just like many other legal documents we have seen.
"Maybe they made a mistake when it was made for TV?"
But I thought it was a real courtroom? lol
They have spelt his name wrong. I just.....man.
I feel bad for those missing out.
As La Toya said "Listen to every word and read between the lines!"
/judge/
Hey, Mike if you're reading this: I love you very much first of all, and I hope you are crying tears of hysteria. This trial is your justice like the picket signs out front say. Justice for all the BS you have courageously endured.
I know you wouldn't go out like a punk! Michael Jackson is legend and this is HIStory in the making!
BAM!
haha
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 04:57:07 PM
???? It isn't until October 8.
hmmmmm. I think Prince will not testify
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 05:00:00 PM
Not making any assumptions, just pointing out what i hear.
lol ok maybe i am making assumptions. She is the woman who also speaks positive about CM.
Post by: Do on September 29, 2011, 05:01:14 PM
QuoteReal doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
:lol:
OMG Souza, this is hilarious really. I can not believe people believe this. And like you wrote, it is very interesting that NOONE asked if Murray is a real doctor. All these things are like putting a finger in the blind eye but still people are sleeping. :?
I found Murray on Vitals.com
http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Conrad_Murray.html (http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Conrad_Murray.html)
Anybody knows if this is a reliable/real existing site?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 05:07:34 PM
Cardiovascular Disease, Internal Medicine, Cardiology
Male - 18 years experience
Read more: http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Conrad_Murray.html#ixzz1ZNjXYGaW
and doesnt know the proper way to administer CPR? Something stinks here.......
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 29, 2011, 05:11:15 PM
100% respect and no tone intended, but are you from the US? Because that is not at all the case.
The DA could give a rip about pressure from anyone when it comes to victim's family and the public. They only bring cases they think they can win.
The single count of Manslaughter is strong piece of evidence supporting hoax court (DA=in on it). It's almost unheard of to bring a single count in a case like this.
I don't see the FBI Sting case being made on this thread, but what does trip me up is the 333 pages of FBI files released.
Now. How do we know there are 333 pages? Yes yes I know, do the math. But my point is, those documents were released via TMZ, correct? So who says all 333 pages are legit?
This is my final response on this subject. @bec-If you have been paying attention you would already have your answer to whether or not I am from the US. I have stated on more than one occasion that I am from USA (born and raised citizen) and I live in Portland, OR. That info is on my twitter and on this board many times. Your opinion is what it is about the Jackson Family and I think your view is skewed. I see it differently. I believe they are a huge contributing factor to History seperately and collectively. I don't think I should have to go line by line of what The Family has done since the beginning of their humble start in Gary, Indiana.
As for the DA, yes the pressure is something he/they would think about. Mind you I am not just referring to the current assistant deputy DA Walgren, I am stating the DA office as a whole which includes the Head Honcho Cooley. http://da.co.la.ca.us/history/cooley.htm
When you research him you then find he is a major corrupt public figure. Corruption runs rampid in LA at all levels and offices. They (DA's office) does not always bring cases they think they can win. This is a perfect example of one (Murray) that is weak yet is being prosecuted and not because it is a hoax.
It is because of pressure from The Family and the public like I said before. This boils down to politics. It boils down to the then Attorney General Jerry Brown who was running for Govenor at the time. How would that have looked if he didn't investigate and get the DA's office to do their job? Govenor Jerry Brown is also the one who appointed Judge Pastor to his current seat.
All politics. I have already posted the definition and law regarding the charge. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg357848.html#msg357848
Re: TIAI April 11
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg326286.html#msg326286
Quote
Information I found out about after the fact when I wrote this:http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.phpf=145&t=18688&p=323759#p323759
The coroner’s office may have fallen victim of the scrutiny also to see if they would do their job correctly.
Craig Harvey Coroner Spokesman, etc.-
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/la-county-coroners-staff-improperly-viewed-michael-jacksons-death-certificate.html
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616765/michael-jacksons-death-certificate-improperly-viewed.jhtml
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/11/08/lapd.corruption.scandal/?urls=
Quote
LAPD corruption investigation to result in few charges
November 8, 2001 Posted: 10:42 AM EST (1542 GMT)
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The criminal investigation into alleged widespread corruption in the Los Angeles Police Department is expected to conclude by December with no further prosecutions, Los Angeles District Attorney Steve Cooley said.
Since the corruption probe began nearly four years ago, eight officers have been charged with criminal misconduct. More than 70 officers in the LAPD's Rampart Division faced allegations of planting drugs and guns on suspects, fabricating arrest reports, beating suspects in custody and in some cases shooting unarmed, innocent people during gang sweeps.
"We are in the process of reviewing 45 cases, but we don't anticipate there will be additional charges filed," said Jane Robison, Cooley's spokeswoman.
Most of the cases involving alleged misconduct will be dismissed because of insufficient evidence or because the statute of limitations expired, sources said.
Revelations of alleged misconduct emerged after former officer Rafael Perez was caught stealing eight pounds of cocaine from a police evidence room in March 1998. Perez, who entered a plea agreement with state prosecutors, was granted state immunity in exchange for his cooperation in the corruption probe.
After more than 4,000 pages of sworn testimony, Perez described how officers in the anti-gang unit framed dozens of innocent people during gang raids west of downtown Los Angeles.
In one case that defined the magnitude of corruption, Perez described how he and his former partner, Nino Durden, shot Javier Francisco Ovando multiple times and conspired to cover up the shooting by planting a gun on him.
Ovando, paralyzed from the shooting, was convicted of assaulting the officers and sentenced to prison. He was released after investigators concluded that the shooting was unjustified. After serving three years in prison, Ovando sued the city of Los Angeles and settled the largest civil lawsuit in city history, $15 million.
In March, Durden entered a plea deal with state and federal prosecutors stemming from the Ovando shooting and other charges. Federal authorities have opened a separate investigation into the Rampart corruption scandal, including possible civil rights violations against Perez for his role in the Ovando shooting.
Durden is expected to serve at least seven years and eight months in state prison when he is sentenced. Perez was released from a five-year prison term in July.
The scandal has led to more than 100 criminal convictions being overturned. The city of Los Angeles also signed a consent decree with the U.S. Justice Department requiring federal oversight of the police department's management and training policies.
The city has paid over $30 million dollars in civil lawsuits related to the corruption scandal, but some city officials estimate the costs could exceed $125 million when the remaining cases are settled.
On Wednesday, Cooley outlined a series of written protocols to investigate allegations of corruption, including a Justice System Integrity Division to review cases involving probable cause against officers and a response team to investigate any officer involved shooting or in custody deaths on the scene.
"Never before in the 151-year history of the district attorney's office has that office issued written protocols which outline how, when and under what circumstances prosecutors will investigate allegations of criminal misconduct by law enforcement employees," Cooley said.
Had such a mechanism been in place earlier, Cooley said it "would have probably led to the early detection of disgraced former Officer Rafael Perez."
-- From CNN Producer Stanley Wilson
Re: TIAI May 1
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.msg329238.html#msg329238
Must watch series of videos that explain a whole lot. Steve Cooley the Big Boss of the DA's office is exposed by those who have worked with him personally. I believe Steve and the DA's office (all of it) is under scrutiny (focus of the sting) along with all the other systems I have talked about. This is bigger than a few going down or being exposed for the crooks they are.http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515.php
Quote
DISTRICT ATTORNEY CORRUPTION?: TWO VIEWS ON DA COOLEY’S RECORD
Internet exclusive: On Full Disclosure® Video News Blog
Video Preview Time: Preview 7:30 min.
Release Date: May 14, 2008
Los Angeles, CA Is it a co-incidence that it has been almost 20 years, since the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office prosecuted a big dollar, white collar crime? Or could it be there are no more big corruption cases or major crimes committed by powerful and prominent people in Los Angeles?
In a Full Disclosure Network® two-part series Steve Ipsen, President of the Association of Deputy District Attorneys (L. A. County) and Albert Robles, Constitutional Attorney who serves as an elected member of the So. California Water Replenishment Board both contend that corruption is alive and well in Los Angeles County. These two challengers running against Cooley in the June 2008 election, point out that the current DA has refused to prosecute the rich and powerful while successfully lobbying for a $55,000 pay raise bringing his salary to $292,300, making him one of the highest-paid government officials anywhere.
Watch this seven minute preview from the series that is featured on 45 cable systems and the internet. The full two-part programs will be available for viewing (for a limited time up to the election) from the Full Disclosure website from the following links:
Preview (7:30 min)
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-1.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-1.php) Segment #1 (8 min)
Candidates provide background on their careers and qualifications. They present a summary of issues for why they are running against the Incumbent DA Steve Cooley
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-2.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-2.php) Segment #2 (8 min)
Candidates discuss why Steve Cooley is not participating in the U. S. Department of Justice Gang Initiative and address the following issues:
DA non-action policy on deporting illegal alien gang members
Mexican Drug Cartels in City of Cudahy
Impact of Criminal Defense lobby on DA prosecution policies
DA Cooley's campaign contributions from Criminal Defense lobby
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-3.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-3.php) Segment #3 (8 min)
Candidates describe the failures and demoralization of the DA's office, and of DA Investigators as body guards and chauffeurs for questionable personal activities.
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-4.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-4.php) Segment #4 (8 min)
Both candidates noted the following:
DA's refusal to prosecute pedophile priests in the Catholic Church
DA's non-prosecution policies of powerful people, i.e. Board of Supervisors
Called DA's pay raise "pay back" for looking the other way.
Ethics Violation: Cooley called Jury members "stupid" following the Blake Verdict
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-5.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-5.php) Segment #5 (8 min)
Candidates detail issue where there is Corruption in the DA's office:
Belmont Learning Center scandal
Criminal Defense Attorneys influence
DA disbanded environmental crimes unit
Manipulated cases by transfer of expert Deputies
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-6.php (http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/515-6.php) Segment #6 (8 min)
Video disclosure of how DA Investigators were used to conduct an unofficial and unauthorized investigation. Candidates describe DA's failure to investigate MacArthur Park beatings gross negligence at Martin Luther King Hospital.
Challengers Quotes on DA Cooley’s record:
Steve Ipsen:
“The corruption that exists in the county that I'm aware of, that I can state here today is with the District Attorney's office.”
“This DA doesn't deserve to be paid when he isn't doing his job.”
Albert Robles:
“He has refused to prosecute the pedophiles and child molesters that work and still work in the Catholic Church”.
“Steve Cooley takes untold amounts of money from the criminal defense sector”.
This series is to be featured on 45 cable systems starting May 14, 2008. A complete listing of channels and airtimes, by community can be found from this link.
I wrote about the issues I felt were a part of this sting operation back in the thread TIAI April 11 but here it is again since it does apply here regarding some of the WHO the focus of the sting is. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.phpf=145&t=18688&p=322491#p322491
Quote
The way things are now Propofol is an uncontrolled drug and can be obtained very easily by a Dr. who has a liscense and also by a person with a script. The pharmacy in Nevada was distributing Propofol to Murray as if it was no big deal. That is why that pharmacy is now shut down.
The events that have happened since MJ died because of Propofol have been incredible. MJ used himself as bait for a sting operation that far out weighs a cadaver being used in the process. He also used Propofol as the drug of choice so that it would cause great attention to that drug. The Propofol from a manufacture making it was shown to have tainted lot numbers. The manufactures have stopped making it here in the USA. There is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.
Quote
I believe that one part of the sting operation deals with the drug problems in Hollywood and the over prescribing of meds by the doctors. I also believe it has to do with FDA issues and the manufactors of Propofol. Big pharmaceuticals manufactors do not care what goes into the drugs or the side effects as long as they make a profit. Tainted medicines are resold all the time in order to dump them and make a profit.
Quote
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-14/health/jackson.drug.recall_1_generic-version-propofol-lot-number?_s=PM:HEALTH (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-14/health/jackson.drug.recall_1_generic-version-propofol-lot-number?_s=PM:HEALTH)
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-15/health/propofol.dea.jackson_1_diprivan-propofol-drug?_s=PM:HEALTH (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-15/health/propofol.dea.jackson_1_diprivan-propofol-drug?_s=PM:HEALTH)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/11/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-las-vegas/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/11/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-las-vegas/)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/propofol-manufacturer-in-michael-jackson-hospira-pharmacy/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/propofol-manufacturer-in-michael-jackson-hospira-pharmacy/)
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugShortages/ucm209227.htm (http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugShortages/ucm209227.htm)
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10769777 (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10769777)
http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=31878 (http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=31878)
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/propofol/propofol_law.shtml (http://www.erowid.org/pharms/propofol/propofol_law.shtml)
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2009/fr0723.htm (http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2009/fr0723.htm)
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959)
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TS_comments wrote:
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
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There is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.
http://www.dipity.com/timeline/Propofol-Recall
FBI info is below. TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg321884.html#msg321884
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg321890.html#msg321890
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJTN1AIKgXk[/youtube]
Thanks for posting this video Im_convinced. It's particularly interesting what Brian Oxman says. Oxman claims that back in Aug '09, he learned of the FBI file on MJ and it was he who requested the files be released under the Freedom of Information Act. As a result of that request, the 333 pages were released by the FBI. He also says that as an attorney, he knew the FBI was significantly involved in some of the aspects of Michael's life. I find these comments quite intriguing because Oxman is claiming it was because of him that the FBI files were released (the 33 pages) AND it was Oxman who said the ambulance photo was 99.9% fake, which also totally ties into what everyone's been discussing here. :shock:
Also, this is unrelated but the former FBI agent in the video sounds a lot like Garth from Wayne's World.
Political info.
Quote
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg321892.html#msg321892
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12893#p216153
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18386&p=316315
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ns/today-entertainment/
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=40287
http://www.jerrybrown.org/jerry-brown-accomplishments-attorney-general
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=42873
Here is the website for office of the attorney general and the missions she/they are working on. http://oag.ca.gov/
While the Jackson family is huge and they have several voices that want to be heard, they aren't that big in the US as some might think. I also don't think that they are going to just have control over what a DA or their office is going or not going to do. If that were the case then all the Jackson's had to do was make a phone call to the courts and the 2005 trial would of never happened. What about all of the other times MJ had gone to court over his music, again never would of happened if all it took was to have the last name Jackson. I hope that didn't come across too harsh.
I can't remember but did anyone else report about the 333 pages from the FBI or was it just TMZ? I haven't made up my mind on whether it's a hoax court or sting, I'm still on the fence about it. I'm very interested in hearing all sides though.
Come on use common sense. I never said the family is above the law. In context of the influence the family posses they can get shit started. I call them American Royalty because I know no other family who calls themselves A Jackson Dynasty. We do not have kings, queens, prince, princess, etc. like in England or other countries that have monarchy in high public places. I am saying The Family is just as powerful as them.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 29, 2011, 05:16:45 PM
Sorry but I think you're wrong. The only thing that's clear in the upper left is 2011. On the first calendar in the first row on the left top-down, that are the dates from sunday. Sunday the third wasn't in May. All the dates and days fits in october, november and december. Either way it still isn't an explanation for the missing days.The first calender isn't from October it's from may! When you look at the last one you can see "july" at the upper left side. The calender are from mai-june and july. Very strange for a court :ugeek: And the elephant not less WTF??Elephant court...... /woohoo/Hi guys, I don't post a lot but I'm here everyday. Is it me or is something wrong with the first calender. If I'm not mistaking it's october, wich has 31 days. If the 27th, 28th and 29th of october are behind the ladies head then were are the 30th and 31st of october. :?:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4776/trialelephanttoy.jpg)
I saw the calendar again today and the calendar starts from Oct, Nov, Dec, they don't have Sep.
Post by: mjaliveomg on September 29, 2011, 05:27:28 PM
I asked my mom who is veterinary and she said to me that no purpose to put the bottle inside the IV bag, even if u going to put that in the trash.
Then i asked if the fluid inside the bottle would go out and mix with the IV fluid, and she said its impossible cuz the bottle is sealed with the rubber and the metal ring and even if u use a syringe to "pull out" the fluid, the bottle still "sealed" and impossible to leak inside the bag.
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 29, 2011, 06:13:30 PM
Prince Jackson
Idk If Kai will c this but everyone plz try and get her to c it we love u Kai and miss u
55 minutes ago
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 06:16:06 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 06:19:31 PM
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 06:24:11 PM
Post by: mjaliveomg on September 29, 2011, 06:40:09 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 06:56:56 PM
She testified that when Murray came down, panicked, around 12:05-12:10 pm, he screamed "Get help, get security, get Prince". She then got Prince, and went back to work? She said that Prince was the closest to her, yet she later explained that the security trailer was only a few steps away. She said that she believed something was wrong with MJ, but still went back to work?
If I see or hear my boss in distress, or panic about it, WORK CAN WAIT. And if something is wrong with MJ, his lunch can wait. She could have gotten to security after she got Prince, yet she chose not to and seemed pissed when Flanagan addressed that and asked her why she didn't do more. "I just did was I was asked" she said in a bit of an angry tone imo, but what Murray asked was if she could get HELP, SECURITY, and lastly Prince.
She also said she did several interviews about it, both in the US and abroad and made money off of it. $1000.00 per interview abroad is easy money, if her travel expenses would have been covered too, but we don't know that because it wasn't asked. But in the end she did confirm she made $7000.00 off of it.
It might be a role of course, and I hope it is, but I did mention that I think the sting could be against some of the witnesses. Not to get the few individuals, but the people behind them. Who knows who they work for and I noticed Chernoff specifically asking Alvarez who he worked for. "Who do you work for?"
Anyway, need to think this through some more, but I was reminded of it when she seemed to get so pissed and even a little arrogant. She gave a certain look and she did not see anything that day, besides what was happening downstairs. I also don't recall her saying she actually saw MJ leaving the house on the stretcher.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
Post by: Sarahli on September 29, 2011, 07:00:30 PM
I don't know if you noticed but Chernoff asked Alvarez how he was first introduced to Michael. He replied that he was introduced by "Bashir" a person who supposedly owned a security company. I am sure that this name reminds you of someone. Strange "coincidence". suspicious//
Chernoff also asked Alvarez if he has reviewed his testimony of the prelim hearings to prepare for the trial. On a biased hoax perspective it sounds like "have you rehearsed"? :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 07:10:19 PM
Also references to circus and his previous manager talking about him in present tense...
Post by: Aidan_81 on September 29, 2011, 07:16:51 PM
we know from..err.. preliminary hearing days?
For me it's only in prosecution opening on day 1 [spooky tape], the rest so far was very much
like what everyone stated/revealed during preliminary hearings, am I missing something important? :?
{yes, I'm watching it live every day.. but working on PC at the same time so maybe some
details escaped..}
I don't recall Nanny Roselyn mentioned before, maybe just forgot, have to re-read everything..
Frank died after complications from heart surgery? We'll never know for sure..
Post by: Andrea on September 29, 2011, 07:20:53 PM
I just had a thought - what if the events of June 25th happened as they did (apart from Michael having propofol and dying). Maybe it was decided on to actually go through the motions of the script, act it out so that when the inevitable trial came, what they say is not lying but truth (except for MJ dying) and so when they describe what happened (whether in interviews or on the stand) it has believability because they did do what they're saying.
The 911 call still could've been staged, as well as the paramedics. I'm really wanting to see the paramedics, I wonder if they'll be questioned about not recognizing Michael, thinking he was an old sickly hospice patient when the photos - ambulance and "death" show someone who does appear to be Michael. Who knows, maybe Michael did ride to UCLA in the ambulance and then hop out of the back of the white van later on. We never really agreed on who/what/if anything was in the ambulance...
I wish I could watch every single minute of the trial, so far I've only been catching the afternoon sessions as I'm at work during the first half.
@ Sarahli, I don't really remember Nanny Roselyn but I remember something about a Sister Rose...?
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 29, 2011, 07:27:04 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on September 29, 2011, 07:33:08 PM
Okay... I thought Kai Chase's testimony was weird. Either she is a real good damn actress, or she really got pissed at a certain moment when Flanagan called her out on not getting help. Maybe it's just in the script, but she really looked busted, unlike Alvarez, who just seemed nervous as hell.
She testified that when Murray came down, panicked, around 12:05-12:10 pm, he screamed "Get help, get security, get Prince". She then got Prince, and went back to work? She said that Prince was the closest to her, yet she later explained that the security trailer was only a few steps away. She said that she believed something was wrong with MJ, but still went back to work?
If I see or hear my boss in distress, or panic about it, WORK CAN WAIT. And if something is wrong with MJ, his lunch can wait. She could have gotten to security after she got Prince, yet she chose not to and seemed pissed when Flanagan addressed that and asked her why she didn't do more. "I just did was I was asked" she said in a bit of an angry tone imo, but what Murray asked was if she could get HELP, SECURITY, and lastly Prince.
She also said she did several interviews about it, both in the US and abroad and made money off of it. $1000.00 per interview abroad is easy money, if her travel expenses would have been covered too, but we don't know that because it wasn't asked. But in the end she did confirm she made $7000.00 off of it.
It might be a role of course, and I hope it is, but I did mention that I think the sting could be against some of the witnesses. Not to get the few individuals, but the people behind them. Who knows who they work for and I noticed Chernoff specifically asking Alvarez who he worked for. "Who do you work for?"
Anyway, need to think this through some more, but I was reminded of it when she seemed to get so pissed and even a little arrogant. She gave a certain look and she did not see anything that day, besides what was happening downstairs. I also don't recall her saying she actually saw MJ leaving the house on the stretcher.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
Kai never said in her previous testimonies that s he actually saw Michael being taken to the hospital even though that she left house around that time and could have seen. I remeember one of her interviews saying that she did NOT see Michael that day at all nor carried to the ambulance. Per her testimony, which is controversal to Alberto Alvarez, kids did not go upstairs. Indeed something in her testimony was off.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 29, 2011, 07:36:53 PM
Imconvinced, I think it's sad that you feel so attacked by bec, when IMO she is just on the other side of a battle that should be informative, tough but also FUN. I think you are missing the last part. I did not know where you were from either, except that you ar from the USA. I don't follow your Twitter, or paying attention to your current state of residence. Bec doesn't even have Twitter, so why blame her for not knowing that? Chill out and as the judge says: sit back and relax, for your own sake.Souza-This is where the written word loses translation. The emotion is not understood in the intent, it is only interpretated by the other party depending on how they choose to attach an emotion to it. I was not offended nor felt attacked by what bec asked. I am cool as a cucumber. She asked me the question and I gave her an answer. I have no problems with her at all. I am just doing what I was asked to do, lead out the sting operation. None of this is a personal attack either way. I know she is supposed to be defending the hoax court. I am responding to what she writes. I am far from missing the FUN, I have been lmao since the start. /woohoo/
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
I get what your saying when it comes to a sting op on a DA's office, court system, and everything else that is being exposed NOT effecting where you live on a GLOBAL scale. We both know it is MJ's objective to include a world wide awakening. This trial will do the exposing part for his state of CA and who knows if this is satisfying enuff for him as a vendetta/revenge? Hopefully all the exposure to corruption will be a butterfly effect all over the world and cause people to question their own courts, etc. I am not just writing my opinions here about the corruption. I have provided evidence.
Alberto could not have done all that shit in a 2 minute time frame, that's why it's ridiculas. I also noticed he repeated the DA's question and left the alive part off. lolol/
Post by: paula-c on September 29, 2011, 07:42:47 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 07:51:11 PM
Imconvinced, I think it's sad that you feel so attacked by bec, when IMO she is just on the other side of a battle that should be informative, tough but also FUN. I think you are missing the last part. I did not know where you were from either, except that you ar from the USA. I don't follow your Twitter, or paying attention to your current state of residence. Bec doesn't even have Twitter, so why blame her for not knowing that? Chill out and as the judge says: sit back and relax, for your own sake.Souza-This is where the written word loses translation. The emotion is not understood in the intent, it is only interpretated by the other party depending on how they choose to attach an emotion to it. I was not offended nor felt attacked by what bec asked. I am cool as a cucumber. She asked me the question and I gave her an answer. I have no problems with her at all. I am just doing what I was asked to do, lead out the sting operation. None of this is a personal attack either way. I know she is supposed to be defending the hoax court. I am responding to what she writes. I am far from missing the FUN, I have been lmao since the start. /woohoo/
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
I get what your saying when it comes to a sting op on a DA's office, court system, and everything else that is being exposed NOT effecting where you live on a GLOBAL scale. We both know it is MJ's objective to include a world wide awakening. This trial will do the exposing part for his state of CA and who knows if this is satisfying enuff for him as a vendetta/revenge? Hopefully all the exposure to corruption will be a butterfly effect all over the world and cause people to question their own courts, etc. I am not just writing my opinions here about the corruption. I have provided evidence.
Alberto could not have done all that shit in a 2 minute time frame, that's why it's ridiculas. I also noticed he repeated the DA's question and left the alive part off. lolol/
As for the butterfly effect: I don't see that happening, that is why I don't believe that this is the big sting in this court (IF there is a sting in court, court could also be a distraction from the sting). We have seen many times that public figures were outed as dirty, but I have never seen a butterfly effect. People talk about it for a few days, but as soon as the media stops talking about it, the subject is dead again. So that is why I again arrive at the media. The media has way too much power over people's opinions. Exposing the media at a grand scale would be way more helpful. At least that is what I think.
I do believe there is a sting against certain individuals, I am just not sure yet who or what the target is yet.
It wasn't even two minutes, it was half a minute. Maybe Ed will remake that part from 12 Angry Men where the guy reconstructs the events to show the timeline is way off.
Overall, good day for Murray today.
Post by: AnaMarcia on September 29, 2011, 07:52:10 PM
Okay... I thought Kai Chase's testimony was weird. Either she is a real good damn actress, or she really got pissed at a certain moment when Flanagan called her out on not getting help. Maybe it's just in the script, but she really looked busted, unlike Alvarez, who just seemed nervous as hell.
She testified that when Murray came down, panicked, around 12:05-12:10 pm, he screamed "Get help, get security, get Prince". She then got Prince, and went back to work? She said that Prince was the closest to her, yet she later explained that the security trailer was only a few steps away. She said that she believed something was wrong with MJ, but still went back to work?
If I see or hear my boss in distress, or panic about it, WORK CAN WAIT. And if something is wrong with MJ, his lunch can wait. She could have gotten to security after she got Prince, yet she chose not to and seemed pissed when Flanagan addressed that and asked her why she didn't do more. "I just did was I was asked" she said in a bit of an angry tone imo, but what Murray asked was if she could get HELP, SECURITY, and lastly Prince.
She also said she did several interviews about it, both in the US and abroad and made money off of it. $1000.00 per interview abroad is easy money, if her travel expenses would have been covered too, but we don't know that because it wasn't asked. But in the end she did confirm she made $7000.00 off of it.
It might be a role of course, and I hope it is, but I did mention that I think the sting could be against some of the witnesses. Not to get the few individuals, but the people behind them. Who knows who they work for and I noticed Chernoff specifically asking Alvarez who he worked for. "Who do you work for?"
Anyway, need to think this through some more, but I was reminded of it when she seemed to get so pissed and even a little arrogant. She gave a certain look and she did not see anything that day, besides what was happening downstairs. I also don't recall her saying she actually saw MJ leaving the house on the stretcher.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
I always thought that Kai Chase was important part of Michael's plans. Not because she was at hoax, but because Michael needed a witness in his house to give veracity to what occurred on June 25 and confirm the story Murray x propofol.
She worked with Michael just a few weeks. Why would she be the hoax too?
Someone here saw a photo of Kai Chase with Obama in the White House? I remember seeing this in 2009 in a hoax blog here in Brazil, but I do not know if it is mounting.
(http://mulheresluxo.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/7122_1211021806850_1567909773_30574305_490173_n.jpg?w=290&h=290)
If Kai Chase attends the White House, my version about her can change.
Sorry, but I can not remember if it was discussed here.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
His manager ( or previous) manager...just seems odd to me the stuff she is saying...like she is dropping hints left and right, especially Frank's death...why bring that up? is that even relevant?
I have tons of reading to catch up on later....
What i find fascinating to this puzzle is...
American Idol...they never had permission to use any of Michael Jackson's songs. The few months before he "died" all of a sudden it was 'cleared" to use his songs, then we find out AEG is now a part of idol and in the last 2 years, his songs are continuously being sung on Idol. confused/
This trial gets crazier by the minute...they have already played 2 9-11 calls, the 2nd lengthy one seems scripted and staged to me, Alvarez wasn't panicking, there was no commotion in the background...geez, I can be talking to anyone on my cell phone and they can hear my dishwasher, dogs barking, even the wind blowing in the other room! WTF??
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 29, 2011, 08:08:49 PM
I see what your saying and I have never denied that this is very much a trap for the media. Last night I was watching a DVR'd part of the trial and I fast forward it as fast as I could and I laughed so hard. The media talking heads like Nancy, Jean and them were talking and moving so fast. I had my daughter watch it and she fell out. I didn't see your tip until just now and I am beyond frustration or annoyance at people not reading my posts. The info is there and people can do what they want. The info will sit until the end and we shall see because the troot prevails.Imconvinced, I think it's sad that you feel so attacked by bec, when IMO she is just on the other side of a battle that should be informative, tough but also FUN. I think you are missing the last part. I did not know where you were from either, except that you ar from the USA. I don't follow your Twitter, or paying attention to your current state of residence. Bec doesn't even have Twitter, so why blame her for not knowing that? Chill out and as the judge says: sit back and relax, for your own sake.Souza-This is where the written word loses translation. The emotion is not understood in the intent, it is only interpretated by the other party depending on how they choose to attach an emotion to it. I was not offended nor felt attacked by what bec asked. I am cool as a cucumber. She asked me the question and I gave her an answer. I have no problems with her at all. I am just doing what I was asked to do, lead out the sting operation. None of this is a personal attack either way. I know she is supposed to be defending the hoax court. I am responding to what she writes. I am far from missing the FUN, I have been lmao since the start. /woohoo/
My question to you, since you seem very convinced about the sting against the DA's office, is what you will think what a difference it would make if they were to be found corrupt? Because I know for a fact that if that would be the case, they would say here in Holland "Oh, that can only happen in America", but I am also certain that they will not even think about their own judges and prosecuters. Why not? Because there is a huge ocean in between and the Dutch overall already think America is corrupt as hell in many ways. So it is not going to change anything, it will not cause an earthquake IMO. But if you have a good theory on that, I would like to hear it. I don't see the bigger picture in it, nor do I see a satisfying revenge in it for Michael personally.
I get what your saying when it comes to a sting op on a DA's office, court system, and everything else that is being exposed NOT effecting where you live on a GLOBAL scale. We both know it is MJ's objective to include a world wide awakening. This trial will do the exposing part for his state of CA and who knows if this is satisfying enuff for him as a vendetta/revenge? Hopefully all the exposure to corruption will be a butterfly effect all over the world and cause people to question their own courts, etc. I am not just writing my opinions here about the corruption. I have provided evidence.
Alberto could not have done all that shit in a 2 minute time frame, that's why it's ridiculas. I also noticed he repeated the DA's question and left the alive part off. lolol/
As for the butterfly effect: I don't see that happening, that is why I don't believe that this is the big sting in this court (IF there is a sting in court, court could also be a distraction from the sting). We have seen many times that public figures were outed as dirty, but I have never seen a butterfly effect. People talk about it for a few days, but as soon as the media stops talking about it, the subject is dead again. So that is why I again arrive at the media. The media has way too much power over people's opinions. Exposing the media at a grand scale would be way more helpful. At least that is what I think.
I do believe there is a sting against certain individuals, I am just not sure yet who or what the target is yet.
It wasn't even two minutes, it was half a minute. Maybe Ed will remake that part from 12 Angry Men where the guy reconstructs the events to show the timeline is way off.
Overall, good day for Murray today.
I was saying 2 mins because supposedly Alberto was on the phone at 12:18 p.m. with MAW going to the front door, then the nanny Roselyn opened the door and Alberto saw Murray at the top of the stairs leaning over the railing...then all the other shit he supposedly did and observed before he called 911 at 2:20 p.m. according to the DA. I thought the nanny was Grace?
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 08:09:13 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 08:10:45 PM
I thought the nanny was Grace?[/b]
You are not alone... lol
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 08:13:49 PM
Here is snippet of a very long article on her:
"An enigmatic woman in Michael Jackson's inner circle is re-emerging just as the battle over the guardianship and paternity of his kids continues. Grace Rwaramba — the Rwandan nanny of Prince Michael I, 12; Paris Michael Katherine, 11; and Prince Michael II (known as Blanket), 7 — is the woman Jackson insiders describe as the most maternal personality the children have known."
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1911880,00.html
Also found an old thread here.....she has a sister named Rose:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10254
Post by: longlivetheking on September 29, 2011, 08:16:57 PM
Okay... I thought Kai Chase's testimony was weird. Either she is a real good damn actress, or she really got pissed at a certain moment when Flanagan called her out on not getting help.
Weird weird testimony, but maybe she is just a good actress.
She got very angry - she was pointing her finger, her tone of voice raised and she shouted "I just did what I was asked."
Post by: angel on September 29, 2011, 08:35:44 PM
I thought Kai's testimony was weird too. She seems to be sticking to the script although it proved a bit trying when they really started questioning her actions, or lack of actions.
I just had a thought - what if the events of June 25th happened as they did (apart from Michael having propofol and dying). Maybe it was decided on to actually go through the motions of the script, act it out so that when the inevitable trial came, what they say is not lying but truth (except for MJ dying) and so when they describe what happened (whether in interviews or on the stand) it has believability because they did do what they're saying.
The 911 call still could've been staged, as well as the paramedics. I'm really wanting to see the paramedics, I wonder if they'll be questioned about not recognizing Michael, thinking he was an old sickly hospice patient when the photos - ambulance and "death" show someone who does appear to be Michael. Who knows, maybe Michael did ride to UCLA in the ambulance and then hop out of the back of the white van later on. We never really agreed on who/what/if anything was in the ambulance...
I wish I could watch every single minute of the trial, so far I've only been catching the afternoon sessions as I'm at work during the first half.
@ Sarahli, I don't really remember Nanny Roselyn but I remember something about a Sister Rose...?
That makes sense, acting out the script for believability. Btw, I caught a little bit of Raymone Bain on Jane Velez Mitchell tonight and she said something like (I can't remember the exact quote) "We spent years preparing for the time when he would come back and reveal himself to the world." She was referring to his making a comeback performance, but it sure sounded hoaxy and made me do a double take! ;)
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 29, 2011, 08:37:09 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 29, 2011, 10:00:13 PM
The detectives then went back on June 29th and retrieved the bags. Who said that? DA or Defense? I think it was during opening statements during the time the tape was being played of Murray talking to the detectives at the hotel. Can someone please help me find this info? I didn't write it down but I do remember hearing it and this helps the sting court because it shows incompetence by the LAPD/detectives. /judge/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 29, 2011, 10:42:06 PM
she also said that the "trial" was not a movie or a concert or I think she said "production"...something along those lines...
I think she TRIED to say the above statement was in regards to TTI, but it didn't come across that way.
Post by: loveratheart4mj on September 29, 2011, 11:26:44 PM
Post by: bec on September 29, 2011, 11:37:04 PM
According to the seal, I noticed that the judge but extra sympathy on exhibit 32. He mentioned it a lot, at least 5, or maybe even 7? lol times). The fake seal has 32 stars, which is not correct. Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV?? WTF?? Okay...
But the judge mentioned it a few times, then said that exhibit 31 (31 starts) was the actual thing (911 call in this case) and 32 was a copy, written by someone else (transcript for the jury). I thought that was pretty interesting.
I have 2 pages left to read but wanted to grab this post before I got too far. This is a brilliant observation. The Judge sure did make a BIG deal out of People's 31&32. He stressed that 31 was real (911 call audio), 32 is just a transcript, or one person's interpretation and it should only be used as a guide. He stressed IF what they heard with their own ears contradicted what the transcript read, they should rely on THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION of the facts above all else. That moment stuck in my head because I got it but I didn't get it... Souza you nailed it. That confirms what we suspected up until now; the Judge is indeed in on it.
Btw, I got in a Facebook debate on this one. TS helped me out with his entrapment vs sting lessons. I was challenged by a non-believer to explain what the purpose of a fake seal would be. The 32nd star indicates that this court isn't "real" so MJ can't be accused of fraud (entrapment) after bamsday. Anyone who cared to know would see it wasn't real. An exact replica of the official seal would be fraudulent and constitute impersonating a government institution. The 32nd star prevents all of that.
Another thing which made me laugh out loud, is how he described the IV bag. It was cut open and there was a Propofol bottle thrown into it upside down, and he saw a milky white substance on the bottom of the bag. He saw Murray performing CPR on the bed with one hand and said that when they transported MJ to the ground, that Murray went on to do mouth-to-mouth while Alvarez took over CPR and murray said: "This is the first time I do mouth-to-mouth, but I have to because he is my friend.
A review, real doctor against Murray:
Real doctor: (aside from not administering propofol like this at all) would put the propofol in the bag itself, without bottle ofcourse, so that it will all stay sterile.
Murray: cuts open the bag, throws bottle he has had in his hands (and many others with him) in the once sterile bag to get the propofol dripped into MJ's leg. Bacterial infection anyone? If the propofol wouldn't have 'killed' him, an infection would have.
Real doctor (and anyone else with a working brain and IQ higher than 0): performs CPR on a hard flat surface with two hands.
Murray: performs CPR with one hand on a soft bed.
Real doctor: has at least done mouth-to-mouth at medical scholl, even if he never would have used it after.
Murray: never done mouth-to-mouth (so never went to medical school?)
I have a client who is a doctor. She is receptive to hoax-related questions if I don't get too too deep. I asked her about this vial within a bag dealie during court today and here's the exchange:
bec: Med ques for u. In regards to saline bag as used for iv drip, are injectable vials ever placed within (inside) the bag?
Doc: No- either add to saline directly in main bag or as a separate bag on top of another saline bag.
Doc: This is an example where the vial is connected to bag but needs to be added into bag and mixed before infusion <pic>
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/correctexampleofaddinginjectabletoivbag.jpg)
bec: so a glass vial of injectable being inside a sealed but empty saline bag allegedly attached to an iv line attached to an iv port in a patient is unusual?
Doc: sounds ridiculous. I can check to see if there are any other wacky configurations maybe for anesthesia.
bec: Yes it is allegedly for anesthesia. Just submitted into evidence in mj doc CA court.
Doc: all anesthesia setups I have seen are in proper operating room so it is precisely controlled by med equipment. will investigate. Yay for a puzzle!
bec: ok cool, thanks Doc.
I'll report back if she finds anything. As of now this bottle within a bag is total BS.
Post by: wishingstar on September 29, 2011, 11:49:46 PM
-the bag within a bag (vials)
-the container within a container (drugs)
-the blood pressure cuff within it's wrapping, within an inner bag, within its box (medical equipment)
Every time they describe these things it's the whole hoax within a hoax thread/line-of thought
Also...someone made mention of a backless chair. Today, a big deal was made of the FRONT door....Alverez was talking about it and how he seldom came in the front door.
Blessings
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 29, 2011, 11:53:57 PM
ps @Imconvinced: one little tip if you would like to have people more interested in what you post; try to use less links. It's not easy to get through for people and clicking links (as proven in internet world) will make people lose attention. I explained certain things a hundred times also, so what? I think if you would take the time to explain again, without linking that much but summarizing the info in the actual post, more people will be able to keep their attention. It's just a tip since I have seen a few times that you are frustrated that people don't read your posts.
I agree.
I want to read everything, I would so much appreciate if people would stick to essantial in a concised form.
Too long posts with many link are difficult to follow. Honestly I'm convinced that's why I skip your posts many times, but I want to read more from you. Time is short, especially now with the trial.
Post by: onthewingsoflove on September 29, 2011, 11:58:11 PM
I don't understand what a real judge has to do with a hoax court.
Who is the real Judge Michael E. Pastor?
The first thing I noticed when I started watching is that the judge sitting on the bench now was not the judge I remember from the time this trial stuff began! So I posted on another thread and asked if anyone else noticed it, and others did. In fact below is a response that was posted. So I clicked on the links and low and behold I see the Judge Michael Pastor that I remembered! So the links below show that in all there have been three Judge Michael Pastor (s)!! afraid/ This reminds me of an old TV show here in the states that ran from 1956 - 1968 and again from 1969 - 1978 called "To Tell The Truth." "The show features a panel of four celebrities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity) attempting to correctly identify a described contestant who has an unusual occupation or experience. This central character is accompanied by two impostors who pretend to be the central character. The celebrity panelists question the three contestants; the impostors are allowed to lie but the central character is sworn "to tell the truth". After questioning, the panel attempts to identify which of the three challengers is telling the truth and is thus the central character.
Three challengers are introduced, all claiming to be the central character. The announcer typically asks the challengers, who stand side by side, "What is your name, please?" Each challenger then states, "My name is [central character's name]." The celebrity panelists then read along as the host reads aloud a signed affidavit about the central character.The panelists are each given a period of time to question the challengers. Questions are directed to the challengers by number (Number One, Number Two and Number Three), with the central character sworn to give truthful answers, and the impostors permitted to lie and pretend to be the central character.After questioning is complete, each member of the panel votes on which of the challengers they believe to be the central character, either by writing the number on a card or holding up a card with the number of their choice, without consulting the other panelists. Any panelist who knows one of the challengers or has another unfair advantage can recuse himself which, for scoring purposes, is counted as an incorrect vote.Once the votes are cast, the host asks, "Will the real [person's name] please stand up?" The central character then stands, often after some brief playful feinting and false starts among all three challengers. The two impostors then reveal their real names and their actual occupations. Prize money is awarded to the challengers based on the number of incorrect votes the impostors draw." (from Wikipedia)
I always felt it was a hoax court from the very beginning and now I need no other proof. I'm done! What gets me is how in the world did they get all the pictures of the first Judge Michael E. Pastor removed off the internet! When I noticed he was a different person I did a goggle search and could find not one picture of the judge they first used. Absolutely amazing! Michael when this is all over and done with, you have to tell us how you managed that! respect/
I just want to scream, /scream/ "Will the real Judge Michael E. Pastor please stand up!" I wonder how much prize money these other two judges will get! Again I say that Michael is sticking it to the media!!! When this is over I'm going to play Elvis. When I toured Graceland I saw that he had three Tvs side by side in his Tv room. We were told it was so that he could watch the news on all three of the Memphis channels at the same time. I'm going to line up at least five for the major stations here because I have got to see every last one of these media people eat crow!!!!!!!!!! penguin/
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif) Re: Some of the odd things at trial & outside courthouse so far (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg357948.html#msg357948) « Reply #6 on: September 27, 2011, 08:08:44 PM »
- Quote (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=post;quote=357948;topic=20594.0;last_msg=358596)
@ 5 seconds..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJ1PcwSUrg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJ1PcwSUrg)
[blink]Aldas, Beannu, Benedizione, Benediction, Bendicion, Bencao, Valsignelse, Zegen, Segen, Palaima,[/blink] Blessings, my friends!
OnTheWingsOfLove
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 12:13:32 AM
Post by: bec on September 30, 2011, 12:23:00 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 12:31:48 AM
It can not be that he is not the real judge because in this case where is the real judge? The aliens kidnapped him?
Post by: bec on September 30, 2011, 01:00:12 AM
From your video link, onthewingsoflove: @1:17
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcgQDxCdBFU[/youtube]
Quote
Feb 8 2010 7:18 PM ESThttp://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1631527/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-pleads-not-guilty.jhtml
Michael Jackson Doctor Conrad Murray Pleads Not Guilty
Murray was charged with involuntary manslaughter earlier in the day; bail was set at $75,000.
By Eric Ditzian
Hours after Dr. Conrad Murray was charged with involuntary manslaughter in connection with Michael Jackson's 2009 death, the embattled physician pleaded not guilty Monday afternoon (February 8) during an arraignment hearing at a Los Angeles courthouse, according to The Associated Press.
Murray's bail was set at $75,000, three times greater than the bail usually set for such crimes. Without being handcuffed, Murray was then taken into custody for booking. He must surrender his passport, allowing him to travel within the United States but not out of the country. Prosecutors had been seeking bail of $300,000, but Superior Court Judge Keith L. Schwartz rejected that amount. The involuntary-manslaughter charge carries a maximum jail sentence of four years.
I just realized, in this old article, bail was set at $75,000, which was "three times greater than the bail usually set for such crimes", which means usual bail for such crimes is $25,000. 2+5=7, 3x(2+5)= 777.
I love stumbling upon old stuff like that.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 01:09:10 AM
I do not think he is an actor - while the real Michael E. Pastor is just watching the trial from home.
Post by: onthewingsoflove on September 30, 2011, 01:13:16 AM
Are you saying that the judge we see now in court is not the real person/judge Michael E. Pastor but someone else assuming his identity?
Good question, and I can't answer that. What I can say is that I've been an auditor for at least 12 years and I have an eye for details and the one we see now is not the original Judge Michael E. Pastor that we were seeing when they first began the preliminary hearings. Maybe this judge now sitting on the bench is the real Michael E. Pastor and the other ones were imposters. That could explain why I can't find any pictures on the internet of the other one, only this one when I searched "Judge Michael E. Pastor on yesterday."
I do remember when he first came up as the judge for this case, I did an online search of the Superior Court judges in LA and Judge Michael E. Pastor, but I can't remember if there was a picture posted. I thought I bookmarked the site but I have since then gotten a new computer and lost some of my bookmarks from the old computer in the transfer. But I'm still searching for that site now.
I am not the only one on this site who noticed that the judge is different. I got a PM today from someone saying "That was a good catch!" I can understand that old saying, "Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see!" I strictly remember seeing a news piece on TV some months ago here in LA where they showed the other judge. I'm just amazed that the media that had been reporting on the preliminary hearings have not picked up on it! Again I say Michael is sticking it to the media, proving that we shouldn't accept everything they try to shove down our throats. I can see the average person not paying enough attention to notice it is a different judge or that the seal of California is not official, but it is the responsibility of those reporting the news to be more observant of these types of things than the ones they are reporting to. I feel like contacting the news stations here, but I won't because this is Michael's masterpiece and I'm not going to interfere in the master's work! I take the stance, let them find out it's a hoax when the rest of the gullible world finds out!
We won't know who the real Judge Micheal E. Pastor is until this hoax is over and done with. And yes, this is a hoax court, that is why they have a seal that is not the real seal of the State of California, hoax court! Clues, clues and more clues! Genius!
Stay blessed!
OnTheWingsOfLove
Post by: onthewingsoflove on September 30, 2011, 01:17:32 AM
Sorry to debunk the judge thing but the other judge (from 2/8/10) is not Michael Pastor, he is Judge Keith L. Schwartz.
From your video link, onthewingsoflove: @1:17
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcgQDxCdBFU[/youtube]
Now I find that very interesting because all this time he has been listed in articles and news clips as Judge Michael E. Pastor. Why!
Post by: onthewingsoflove on September 30, 2011, 01:19:57 AM
My opinion is that the judge we see in court is the real Michael E. Pastor judge.
I do not think he is an actor - while the real Michael E. Pastor is just watching the trial from home.
Huh??????
Post by: bec on September 30, 2011, 01:21:34 AM
Post by: onthewingsoflove on September 30, 2011, 01:41:29 AM
Because they changed judges shortly after this hearing in which Murray plead not-guilty (the first time), was arrested (they tell us) and bail was set (allegedly). Judge Michael Pastor took over presiding the case from Judge Ken Schwartz (taxi cab sunflower doll judge) in spring of 2010.
Thanks.
So here we go again with the news media screwing the facts up. The name of the new judge with the pictures and videos of the old judge, amazing!
Post by: curls on September 30, 2011, 01:57:33 AM
Post by: MJonmind on September 30, 2011, 02:06:13 AM
These are some of my thoughts on the trial today.
This first paragraph I posted in another thread.
I didn't see Kai, but only Alberto, and I thought though he looked nervous I thought I saw a glimmer of a smile a few times, like he had a cool secret. When the attorney asked him if losing MJ had a negative effect on him, he looked very sad and said it had hurt him financially and he couldn't find a steady well-paying job like working for MJ. He didn't say that he had been depressed or grief stricken at losing a good friend which would be most people's response. Then the attorney asked him if he harbored any bad feelings towards Murray, and he said, "Not at all." Wow the doctor just supposedly killed by incompetence his dear friend and income sourse. Hmmm...
But if MJ's alive then of course he's not mad at Murray, and perhaps the job situation is different right now while MJ's in hiding, although TMZ said he was doing some security for Lindsay Lohan.
Why did the DA go on and on and on about whether Alverez put the bottles in the blue bag or the brown bag, like it was going to the the KEY evidence to convict Murray. And what position he was in when he did it. Details, alright, but all the wrong ones. Like TS said picking up all the bottles and leaving the one bottle of opened propofol, the most important one, alone. Now I read someone said that the LAPD hadn't even picked the 2 bags up on the 25th, until Murray said where he hid them. Wow.
Quote
Souza,It really seemed to me that Alverez didn't make that drawing. He said he couldn't remember and said something about he wouldn't have drawn something that way. I wonder if this is an example of planted false evidence like in 2005, so is that what your Chandler example is about?
Also interesting, maybe nothing but it reminded me of the drawing that Chandler made (the penis aka mushroom) for the prosecution back in '93. The DA showed a drawing that Alvarez made of the IV bag, which he made in May 2011 (btw: no bottle in it). The defense though had another one, also made by Alvarez on August 31, 2009 and this drawing differed from the one made in 2011. It was said that the one made in 2009 was because the prosecution asked Alvarez for it. Alvarez said he could not recall drawing that picture. (Yet he could recall the tiniest detail of what happened in the room on June 25, up to the angle that the propofol was laying in the IV bag.)
Again like Mohammed, they showed Alverez’s phone numbers to the public. So I guess all those numbers have to be changed. Reminds me of the patient list of Murray’s which was put online, listing their phone numbers and health conditions. Funny…
Quote
Andrea
thought Kai's testimony was weird too. She seems to be sticking to the script although it proved a bit trying when they really started questioning her actions, or lack of actions.
I just had a thought - what if the events of June 25th happened as they did (apart from Michael having propofol and dying). Maybe it was decided on to actually go through the motions of the script, act it out so that when the inevitable trial came, what they say is not lying but truth (except for MJ dying) and so when they describe what happened (whether in interviews or on the stand) it has believability because they did do what they're saying.
The 911 call still could've been staged, as well as the paramedics. I'm really wanting to see the paramedics, I wonder if they'll be questioned about not recognizing Michael, thinking he was an old sickly hospice patient when the photos - ambulance and "death" show someone who does appear to be Michael. Who knows, maybe Michael did ride to UCLA in the ambulance and then hop out of the back of the white van later on. We never really agreed on who/what/if anything was in the ambulance...
I didn’t see Kai’s testimony, but didn’t household staff and security know what the oxygen tanks were for. They must have had a hint that MJ was doing something weird with oxygen tanks and a doctor that needed to stay with him all night long. Plus he’s going to Dr. Klein several times a week, coming out of there groggy and kinda out of it. That would be a boss that I would keep my eye on and worry over, and with any hint of trouble I’d think the worst and be right there.
Staging is what I think too. Remember Ben Evenstead saying “the other day” which may have been a run-through rehearsal of everything. The real eye-opener is when the medics take the stand, and will they say this dingy pic of MJ on the gurney was the hospice patient they saw, old bald Asian, not recognizably MJ?
Could the back-less chair, mean there is no backing or substance or support to anything you see in court?
I'm just thinking again about how ridiculous the whole story is of MJ going through rigorous dancing rehearals, raising 3 kids, eating healthy and then doing something so stupid as pumping propofol all night while he is kept alive by a breathing tube and peeing by catheter every night. So retarded! Then to believe CM, who doesn't know CPR, didn't have MJ signature on the contract yet, has no defibrillator, no heart moniter, no assistant staff-- yet somehow has managed to successfully do what no other doctors would ever dare to do outside a hospital setting for 6 whole weeks already!! Totally impossible! Mind you this is also while MJ is going to Klein several times a week and getting drugged up there too. Anyway, apparantly Alverez said CM wanted him to clip this black box onto MJ's finger while in the bed. He said he knew it was a heart monitering device because CM had once before come to the trailer to ask for some triple A batteries for it. Are there any medical people here who would know if this could be for real?
As for sting or hoax, now I'm more leaning towards mainly hoax, but with awareness of corruption and greed around us, for everyone. It's going to depend on how big the BAM is, as to how much thinking people in general around the world will do about what went down on the 25th and this trial, and MJ's true life. Jesus' trial didn't change anything in the Roman and Jewish political and religious realm, but it was the story of Jesus' truimph itself that spread by word of mouth around the world. Grassroots snowball effect. We also don't know how many powerful players are in on this such as billionaires, or ones with clout. It could be a sting against media and legal powers, but MJ is also using them to carry out his hoax as well, manipulating them. It's a hoax within a hoax, a story within a story, a game within a game. TS can be toying with us or testing us in many of the things he says, so until the the end, we still can only speculate on what we've been given so far, and meditate on the "whispers". I believe the world is his stage though.
Post by: scorpionchik on September 30, 2011, 02:12:56 AM
My opinion is that the judge we see in court is the real Michael E. Pastor judge.
I do not think he is an actor - while the real Michael E. Pastor is just watching the trial from home.
you are right Gina. People here say sometimes things like...............WOW WTF?? are you talking about.
Post by: _Anna_ on September 30, 2011, 02:30:08 AM
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
Post by: MJsFan4Ever on September 30, 2011, 02:35:59 AM
This forum has the best Hoax investigators!
/bravo/
Post by: nefertari on September 30, 2011, 03:32:29 AM
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Post by: ForstAMoon on September 30, 2011, 04:15:08 AM
They become nervous/angry - and somehow I do not believe they just have great acting skills.
It is getting very very interesting, as it to some extend might be in line with what the Jacksons - it is all conspiracy, Murray being the fault guy, it will all come out...
:? :?
Post by: reveron1958 on September 30, 2011, 04:42:55 AM
e.g. I think it was when Michael Amir Williams said he went driving around (as a decoy) after they left the hospital. He mentioned Mohammed and Alvarez by name as being in the car but also mentioned there was one other security with them yet he didn't name them. He also could not name who was driving, even though he was sitting in the front, or am I getting this mixed up with Mohammed's testimony? LOL
Also when Kai was asked who escorted her she didn't remember who, which I thought was probably truthful if there was different people that did it every day, but she didn't seem to know the names of any security except for Alvarez and Mohammed.
Maybe all the others are just 'extras'? :|
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 05:17:56 AM
If I look back at the first 6 levels - I would say their purpose is to put the hoax on "trial", starting with the fake ambulance picture.
It might look like these levels are another sort of a trial, of the things that are there - but from an official point of view they aren't there.
I am very curious if the ambulance pic will be used in the actual trial. If they use it - will someone make opposition to it because it's fake?
But if they don't use it - it could be a sort of an official confirmation that it is fake.
I believe it is possible that Souza might be right about level 7 having something to do with guessing the verdict.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 05:19:59 AM
After yesterday Alvarez and Kai testimony the idea of a sting against some people around MJ came to my mind, in particular when defence started to grill Alvarez about his work and Kai about the events pre-911. :?
:? :?
It is an interesting point.
Post by: jono on September 30, 2011, 07:52:16 AM
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
I think you are missing the point about the extra star in the seal... I am going to quote what bec wrote about this:
"Btw, I got in a Facebook debate on this one. TS helped me out with his entrapment vs sting lessons. I was challenged by a non-believer to explain what the purpose of a fake seal would be. The 32nd star indicates that this court isn't "real" so MJ can't be accused of fraud (entrapment) after bamsday. Anyone who cared to know would see it wasn't real. An exact replica of the official seal would be fraudulent and constitute impersonating a government institution. The 32nd star prevents all of that."
With love! bearhug
Post by: _Anna_ on September 30, 2011, 08:03:54 AM
What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
I think you are missing the point about the extra star in the seal... I am going to quote what bec wrote about this:
"Btw, I got in a Facebook debate on this one. TS helped me out with his entrapment vs sting lessons. I was challenged by a non-believer to explain what the purpose of a fake seal would be. The 32nd star indicates that this court isn't "real" so MJ can't be accused of fraud (entrapment) after bamsday. Anyone who cared to know would see it wasn't real. An exact replica of the official seal would be fraudulent and constitute impersonating a government institution. The 32nd star prevents all of that."
With love! bearhug
What Bec said is mainly what I mean. That can't be a "mistake", you know? It was put there on purpose, in no way I believe it was a mistake and they accidentally put there 32 stars instead of 31.
Post by: jono on September 30, 2011, 08:23:24 AM
I totally agree! It is put there on purpose.. party/What TMZ posted is the seal and if they wanted to post the flag they would. It makes no sense to modify the seal as to have 32 stars when since ages it has 31. Itwas made by TMZ on purpose. I doubt anyone besides us, would look at how many stars are on the seal. Mistake? Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous. I suppose almost anyone is USA knows CA is the 31st state that was admitted in the USA, therefore on the seal there are 31 stars to represent it. Harvey was a lawyer. I am sure he know this, it's common knowledge
"The Great Seal of the state of California has 31 stars on the upper edge representing the number of states upon California's admission to the United states. A grizzly bear and grape cluster represent abundant wildlife and agricultural richness"
http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html (http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/California/statesealCA.html)
_Anna_, TMZ did NOT make that seal, it is on EVERY SINGLE LIVESTREAM. It is always shown when court is not in session, not just in this case.
This is even more weird. When you want to make a replica of an official seal you pay attention to every single detail. I say again that I simply doubt the ones who use this seal for a TV streaming don't know CA is the 31st state admitted in USA and that's why there are 31 stars on the CA Great Seal. Even if you do a little google search you immediately find it. I doubt they threw there a few stars, without paying attention or making a "mistake". That's ridiculous. It's like if they wanted to use the USA flag and they made a "mistake" drawing the stripes vertically instead of orizontally. Or "forgot" a few stars from the flag.
I think you are missing the point about the extra star in the seal... I am going to quote what bec wrote about this:
"Btw, I got in a Facebook debate on this one. TS helped me out with his entrapment vs sting lessons. I was challenged by a non-believer to explain what the purpose of a fake seal would be. The 32nd star indicates that this court isn't "real" so MJ can't be accused of fraud (entrapment) after bamsday. Anyone who cared to know would see it wasn't real. An exact replica of the official seal would be fraudulent and constitute impersonating a government institution. The 32nd star prevents all of that."
With love! bearhug
What Bec said is mainly what I mean. That can't be a "mistake", you know? It was put there on purpose, in no way I believe it was a mistake and they accidentally put there 32 stars instead of 31.
Michael, we love you and you are a genius!
bearhug
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 08:26:06 AM
Are you guys thinking that it's ONLY a 'hoax' court...or that there is both hoax and sting elements at play? I think it's both and that in order to do the 'sting' part, a 'hoax' court was needed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: looking4truth on September 30, 2011, 09:13:17 AM
Post by: looking4truth on September 30, 2011, 09:19:57 AM
I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 30, 2011, 09:30:30 AM
I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. wow,this is very interesting and makes a lot of sense to me.Micheal a messenger from God,impressive OMG!
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 30, 2011, 09:34:48 AM
wow this is very interesting,it all makes sense to me.Micheal a messenger for God ,impressive. OMG!I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on September 30, 2011, 09:38:34 AM
Post by: PureLove on September 30, 2011, 09:41:03 AM
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry.
EXACTLY YES! That's what I think also. Especially in Hollywood, docs are spreading celebrities all these drugs like they are candy. So, I definitely believe the sting is against the medical industry.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on September 30, 2011, 09:52:55 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 09:53:43 AM
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry. I remember in the movie trailer for Thrive (which will be released via internet on 11.11.11), Deepak Chopra, a friend of Michael's, stated that the pharmaceutical companies run or help run medical schools and I would add probably hospitals too so they have a stake on what doctors, nurses and even entire hospitals do for their patients in America and possibly around the world. They may even have a stake on what laws are put into place as far as what hospitals are able to do within their facilities or what drugs are omitted into hospitals. And I vaguely remember about a rumor that Michael Jackson was possibly involved in filing charges against the WHO (World Health Organization) so this may tie into that. This could be one reason why he chose to create his death in this manner. I was also thinking that possibly in California, there is even further corruption due to the mega Hollywood scene and if he wishes to open up a children's hospital, he may want to have alternative medicine as well as Western medicine and that may be hard to do if the law or certain parameters prevent him from doing that. I am not familiar with the laws and restrictions of hospital procedure and medicine so maybe someone who is can help me out or disprove my little theory here. I also think the corruption in the medical field is so interconnected to corruption in other areas like the justice system, mainstream media and maybe even the music industry that this could be a major takeover. Or as always, I could be totally wrong. lol
Great post! And I agree about the medical industry being a possible target. It's one that I'm sure would be very personal to Mike (loss of friends, for example, James Brown) due to negligence/corruption of doctors, not to mention how the focus of the medical community has become increasingly centered on money/greed, rather than on "doing no harm"--especially in California. There's been report after report about how, in North America, at least...drug addiction has skyrocketed with prescription drugs as the drugs of choice (rather than 'street' and/or illegal drugs). The biggest difference, though, is that the ONLY way to get addicted to prescription drugs (even if purchased on the street)...is through a doctor's prescription. The 'spotlight' shines brighter on California due to the glitter of Hollywood...but it is just a reflection of what is taking place across the country.
I can definitely see MJ, with the help of the FBI, going after the medical industry (from pharmaceutical companies--that have infiltrated government, to doctors, to pharmacies and everything inbetween).
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 30, 2011, 10:19:49 AM
I 'get' what bec, Souza and everyone else is saying about this being a 'hoax' court...especially in light of the seal. And maybe I'm just missing something. But how does this being a 'hoax' court erase the possibility of there also being a 'sting,' or several, going on at the same time.
Are you guys thinking that it's ONLY a 'hoax' court...or that there is both hoax and sting elements at play? I think it's both and that in order to do the 'sting' part, a 'hoax' court was needed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
My thoughts are similiar, BetheChange. I think its more than just fun and games, messing with everyone's head. Ultimate revenge (which is half of it, and I find it excrutiatingly funny and entertaining). But this is the fourth day and Klein seems to be shaking. He is making sure people know he is not responsible for MJ's 'addiction' to drugs. I think Klein has given pres. meds to MJ in '93 before MJ went to rehab. But MJ is not the only client of his that he has so williingly given pres drugs to like its candy. Klein is a bad guy, and so are many other Hollywood Docs who prey on vulnerable people (with money to blow) who suffer from a codependancy to pres drugs.
Post by: bec on September 30, 2011, 10:27:44 AM
i dont believe the court is fake. Especially when main stream journalist, and fans are entering the court
Broaden your parameters, don't be so constrained in black/white thinking of what is real...and what is illusion. How do you define "real"?
Of course it's really going on live, at the courthouse, in a courtroom. Of course it's a real judge/Prosecutors/defense lawyers/court employees/LAPD. All of these things/people are indeed "real"... but they by themselves do not make court "real".
Think bigger. Think outside the box. Get more creative and you'll understand what I mean when I say court is fake.
Ps. general comment: we can speculate all day long about a possible Sting against this/that/something else, but where's the proof? Where's the supporting clues/evidence for this theory? We can't just guess maybe this and maybe that. My point has been that although it seems logical, we don't have any evidence that Michael is involved in/participating in/cooperating with an FBI Sting operation.
On the other hand, I believe hoax court has been proven, and continues to be proven as each day passes, in multiple ways.
Oh, and lastly, murder theory is weak and has had zero support geek/
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 10:38:28 AM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: paula-c on September 30, 2011, 10:39:13 AM
Begin with Murray
(http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2010/02/conrad-uncle415.jpg)
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3707/murray1.jpg)
(http://mjfd.webs.com/MurrayCourt5.jpg)
(http://mjfd.webs.com/efr5t5r4.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_R9nXf_Ruz3c/S038Yb8FcvI/AAAAAAAAA7w/ohSkpk9AxoA/s400/gilda2.jpg)
(http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/16/09/46/48/compar10.jpg)
Judge: Gerald W Hardcaster. Retired in 2008 according to the website of the Court in Clark County (Murray case and claim money for their children), supposedly...
(http://mjfd.webs.com/Judge33.jpg)
(http://mjfd.webs.com/strangew1323.jpg)
(http://s48.radikal.ru/i119/1007/63/aca5a0481fe5.jpg)
(http://javibf.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/wqu6hqm7pwcawmee4lh.png?w=300)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/articl10.jpg)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/889/sinttulobb.png)
(http://truenewszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/playroom.jpg)
And not to mention the color of the ties,.. blue with sunflowers that color will be today or that drawings'
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 10:55:46 AM
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry. I remember in the movie trailer for Thrive (which will be released via internet on 11.11.11), Deepak Chopra, a friend of Michael's, stated that the pharmaceutical companies run or help run medical schools and I would add probably hospitals too so they have a stake on what doctors, nurses and even entire hospitals do for their patients in America and possibly around the world. They may even have a stake on what laws are put into place as far as what hospitals are able to do within their facilities or what drugs are omitted into hospitals. And I vaguely remember about a rumor that Michael Jackson was possibly involved in filing charges against the WHO (World Health Organization) so this may tie into that. This could be one reason why he chose to create his death in this manner. I was also thinking that possibly in California, there is even further corruption due to the mega Hollywood scene and if he wishes to open up a children's hospital, he may want to have alternative medicine as well as Western medicine and that may be hard to do if the law or certain parameters prevent him from doing that. I am not familiar with the laws and restrictions of hospital procedure and medicine so maybe someone who is can help me out or disprove my little theory here. I also think the corruption in the medical field is so interconnected to corruption in other areas like the justice system, mainstream media and maybe even the music industry that this could be a major takeover. Or as always, I could be totally wrong. lol
Great post! And I agree about the medical industry being a possible target. It's one that I'm sure would be very personal to Mike (loss of friends, for example, James Brown) due to negligence/corruption of doctors, not to mention how the focus of the medical community has become increasingly centered on money/greed, rather than on "doing no harm"--especially in California. There's been report after report about how, in North America, at least...drug addiction has skyrocketed with prescription drugs as the drugs of choice (rather than 'street' and/or illegal drugs). The biggest difference, though, is that the ONLY way to get addicted to prescription drugs (even if purchased on the street)...is through a doctor's prescription. The 'spotlight' shines brighter on California due to the glitter of Hollywood...but it is just a reflection of what is taking place across the country.
I can definitely see MJ, with the help of the FBI, going after the medical industry (from pharmaceutical companies--that have infiltrated government, to doctors, to pharmacies and everything inbetween).
With L.O.V.E. always.
I agree that the medical industry/pharmaceutical companies being a target of the sting. I'm going to go beyond shady doctors and I've said this before but I'll say it again, hopefully in a condensed version. Basically it's all about money. One of the major pharm companies, Baxter, was investigated a few years ago for creating the avian flu virus and sending it to 18 third world countries in the form of vaccinations. Purposely infect people living in sub-standard over-crowded conditions so the virus would run wild and kill a lot of innocent people. You have George W telling Americans that millions of Americans will die from Avian flu and you have the media pounding it into your brain as well. Meanwhile, sales of Baxter's tamiflu are flying off the shelves. The same could be said about swine flu, only this time vaccinations were made available almost immediately (those patents were applied for a couple years before the outbreak). I didn't get the shot myself after researching the ingredients, which included mercury and other carcinogens - basically things that can make you very ill down the road and leave you once again dependent on meds/treatments from the pharm companies. "Sickening", right?
Back in the early 1900s, John D Rockefeller hired a guy named Flexnor to go around the country and evaluate all the medical facilities, in what became known as the Flexnor Report. Based on his findings, over half the medical facilities in the U.S. were shut down - basically ALL the ones that were NOT prescribing "modern" medicine, but were prescribing alternative/natural medicines or treatments. Since there was no $ in it for Rockefeller's drug company, they got shut down. Plus, natural/alternative treatments have been shown to actually cure a person, and the pharmaceutical companies can't have that since they need people dependent on their treatments -which don't cure you, just make your condition manageable so you always have to pay for meds and treatments. Just think of their methods to "cure" a person - burn it out (radiation), poison it out or cut it out. Natural remedies, however, are from the Earth and I do believe that God created the Earth so that we have everything we need to help ourselves, naturally.
I'm not saying that all modern medicine is evil but when you have a select few that determine who gets what, and inventing diseases to sell "cures", it's not good and has to be stopped. Then they team up with the other branches in society that they control - governments and media - to spread fear into the population. Don't buy into it. (That was as condensed as I could get, LOL).
Post by: use_your_illusion on September 30, 2011, 12:48:16 PM
As #ConradMurray (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23ConradMurray)'s former patient left the witness stand and walked past Murray, Murray gestured w/his right hand over his heart to him
8 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/InSession/status/119828181522972672)
Russell gestured back to #ConradMurray (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23ConradMurray) with a slight bow.
8 minutes ago
http://twitter.com/#!/InSession (http://twitter.com/#!/InSession)
Post by: Aidan_81 on September 30, 2011, 01:22:18 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on September 30, 2011, 01:29:32 PM
I 'get' what bec, Souza and everyone else is saying about this being a 'hoax' court...especially in light of the seal. And maybe I'm just missing something. But how does this being a 'hoax' court erase the possibility of there also being a 'sting,' or several, going on at the same time.
I never said it was only a hoax court. I do think there is a sting going on, I just don't know if this courtcase is also directly a part of it.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
As for the paramedic's testimony... WTF?? is going on? lol He contradicted Alvarez on at least 3 things:
1 - he said Murray and Alvarez were putting MJ on the floor when he walked in (Alvarez said they did that while on the phone with 911)
2 - he said that MJ was wearing pj bottoms and a pj top that was open (Alvarez said he saw a penis catheter (sp) when he first saw MJ -- did they put the pj bottoms on MJ at some point between the 911 call and the paramedic arriving?)
3 - he said that he saw an IV stand WITH a saline bottle still hanging on it (Alvarez said he took the bag down when Murray asked him to)
Also interesting...the paramedic said that MJ's capnography (sp) reading was 16 = 1+6 = 7 :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 02:15:01 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 02:19:46 PM
Here is the call in full:
Operator: What is the nature of your emergency?
Caller: Yes sir, I need an ambulance as soon as possible, sir.
Operator: OK sir, what's your address?
Caller: Los Angeles, California 90077
Operator: Is it Carolwood?
Caller: Carolwood Drive, yes.
Operator: OK sir, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Caller: Sir, we have a gentleman here that needs help and he's not breathing. He's not breathing and we're trying to pump him, but he's not ...
Operator: OK, OK. How old is he?
Caller: He's 50 years old, sir.
Operator: 50? Ok. He's unconscious? He's not breathing?
Caller: Yes he's not breathing sir.
Operator: Ok and he's not conscious either.
Caller: No, he's not conscious sir.
Operator: Alright, is he on the floor, where's he at right now?
Caller: He's on the bed, sir, he's on the bed.
Operator: OK let's get him on the floor.
Caller: OK.
Operator: OK let's get him down to the floor. I'm going to help you with CPR right now. We're on our way there, we're on our way but I'm going to do as much as I can to help you over the phone. We're already on our way. Did anybody see him?
Caller: Yes we have a personal doctor here with him sir.
Operator: Oh you have a doctor there?
Caller: Yes but he's not responding to anything. He's not responding to CPR or anything.
Operator: Ok, well we're on our way there. If your guy's doing CPR as instructed by a doctor, he has a higher authority than me. Did anybody witness what happened?
Caller: No, just the doctor, sir, the doctor's been the only one here.
Operator: OK so the doctor's seen what happened?
Caller: (aside) Doctor, did you see what happened, sir? (To operator) If you can please ...
Operator: We're on our way, I've dispatched these questions on to our paramedics and they're on their way there sir.
Caller: Thank you sir. He's pumping his chest but he's not responding to anything sir, please.
Operator: Ok, we're on our way, we're less than a mile away. We'll be there shortly.
Caller: Thank you sir, thank you.
Operator: Ok sir, call us back if you need any help.
Caller: Yes sir.
The call ends when they are less than a mile away. So I don't think Alvarez could have still been talking on the phone with the operator when the paramedics entered the room.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 02:20:17 PM
The last two prosecution witnesses have actually helped Murray lol
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ibelieveinmj on September 30, 2011, 02:22:13 PM
The paramedic also mentioned that Michael was wearing a surgical cap....was I hearing things?
Post by: PureLove on September 30, 2011, 02:22:35 PM
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
Post by: PureLove on September 30, 2011, 02:24:13 PM
/pull hair/
The paramedic also mentioned that Michael was wearing a surgical cap....was I hearing things?
yeah I heard that too. Why would he wear a surgical cap? Did they put it to cover the corpse's bald head?
Post by: Mish1981 on September 30, 2011, 02:25:23 PM
/pull hair/
The paramedic also mentioned that Michael was wearing a surgical cap....was I hearing things?
That's what I heard too. I was thinking about it after he said it but what if he was wearing it for his hair, like older women do when they have rollers in their hair.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 30, 2011, 02:26:22 PM
Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
Post by: ibelieveinmj on September 30, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)WTF??
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
here it says "found supine on floor"
Post by: _Anna_ on September 30, 2011, 02:28:01 PM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 02:28:23 PM
But now everything Alvarez said has been basically pointless....sigh...this gets weirder by the minute...
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 02:30:46 PM
Maybe it's not that important.
What if Alvarez just couldn't remember it right?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 02:31:50 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 02:34:18 PM
Someone from Chernoff's office did an interview on the Today Show this morning....um....hello? Something BIG is gonna happen now.....I saw that interview too....
Um...get ready for something BIG to happen at 1:30
Post by: mjj4ever777 on September 30, 2011, 02:38:11 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 02:43:33 PM
Hmm...makes you wonder if they "feel" like we are catching on to this charade?
Post by: AnaMarcia on September 30, 2011, 02:52:29 PM
Everything points to a hoax court ... but I think somebody will be sting .... maybe the media. Let's see.
Post by: hesouttamylife on September 30, 2011, 03:10:02 PM
Post by: wishingstar on September 30, 2011, 03:24:59 PM
MDT-Michael-Jackson.jpg (http://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/MDT-Michael-Jackson.jpg)
Blessings
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 03:25:58 PM
One of the paramedics who rushed to save Michael Jackson's life at 100 N. Carolwood Drive just testified ... if Murray would have called 911 immediately, Michael Jackson's life might have been saved.
Richard Senneff said Murray told him he called 911 the second he realized MJ was in distress, when in fact there was an approximate 20 minute delay.
Senneff said had Murray called earlier there was a good chance EMTs could have restarted Michael's heart.
Senneff said when he arrived at the scene MJ was already dead.
* According to Senneff Murray lied when he told paramdics MJ had no underlying condition.
* When Senneff asked him what medications MJ was on, Murray lied again, saying "none." He then admitted he had given MJ a sedative, Lorazepam. At NO point did Murray ever mention the word Propofol.
* After almost 40 minutes and several unsuccessful rounds of starter drugs, the dispatcher at UCLA decides to call time of death... but Murray insists on continuing.
* Paramedics decide to take Michael to the hospital. After getting him into the ambulance, Senneff goes back to MJ's room to retrieve his equipment.... that's when he says, he saw Murray picking up "items" off the floor.
* Senneff said there was no sign of life at any point during the 47 minutes he treated MJ.
seem strange to anyone?
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 03:40:45 PM
Post by: ibelieveinmj on September 30, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
The other thing I found strange is he said that he doesn't wear a watch, really?
Post by: Sarahli on September 30, 2011, 03:58:31 PM
Wow! With all the talk about the fake seal only having 31 stars it made me think about Front’s post.
Front said:
Quote
DEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT
The word “DEtAiLS” seems to hold a lot of KEYS. Was this another clue for us??? Maybe he's talking about some hidden meanings...... "DEALS" and "SEAL." Could be both and that's why he wrote it like he did. What do you guys think?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
.... thanks for the shout out Front ;)
LOL they keep on making mistakes with Michael’s name it seems. It was spelled Micheal on one of the documents from Senneff........the date of birth is wrong as well, of course! /woohoo/
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3521/michealmr.jpg)
... and this happened right after he was talking about his “BACKground” as a paramedic!!!!
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQffAxUTjD64IEP6akh_u8fBkUn3ILZcGPclR9aCffLvvWmKHGQ1A&t=1)
DEtAiLS…………….
take a seat in the "FRONT" row & focus on "BACKground" 8-)
Another interesting observation....1221 was circled on Senneff’s notes, as if to pinpoint to this being important. Of course it reminds us of 1221 ---> 21st December 2012!! 8-)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8241/teletype911.jpg)
And just before this was shown, the previous witness, Murray’s patient Mr. Robert Russell "coincidentally" or not, when talking about his heart problems, said that he felt like "it was the end of the world, the end of his world" ... clear link between the two in my opinion! LOL
I also noticed Robert being asked "did you feel abandoned?"... this seems to be a theme running through the trial so far.
Another odd point has got me thinking of 2 bodies LOL Alvarez had said that he and Murray had moved Michael’s body to the floor while making the 911 call, and it appeared that Michael was not fully clothed. However Senneff claimed that when he arrived only Murray was in the bedroom with the patient who was dressed in Pyjama bottoms and shirt and was on the bed. ????
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 04:15:22 PM
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 04:18:05 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on September 30, 2011, 04:24:47 PM
I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 04:27:10 PM
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 04:31:06 PM
I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 04:42:38 PM
1blunt adj \ˈblənt\
Definition of BLUNT
1
a : slow or deficient in feeling : insensitive
b : obtuse in understanding or discernment : dull
2
: having an edge or point that is not sharp <a blunt instrument>
3
a : abrupt in speech or manner
b : being straight to the point
Straight and to the point...am I reading too far into this?
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 04:48:03 PM
Alarms going off...
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
I typed this (my quoted post) about 20-30 seconds into the alarms going off...4:26 my time OR 2:26 Los Angeles time...time of "death". WEIRD!
Post by: _Anna_ on September 30, 2011, 04:49:02 PM
Who said that? The tabloids. None of them appeared in a video interview saying that. It was all said in a tabloid, so that doesn't mean inconsistency. They never said that. The tablods did.I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
Post by: PureLove on September 30, 2011, 04:51:25 PM
I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??
He said he recognized Michael.
Post by: PrincessMuffybear on September 30, 2011, 04:53:29 PM
Post by: PureLove on September 30, 2011, 04:54:36 PM
Alarms going off...
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
I typed this (my quoted post) about 20-30 seconds into the alarms going off...4:26 my time OR 2:26 Los Angeles time...time of "death". WEIRD!
Michael likes to ring the bell when he arrives somewhere. UCLA, Oprah and now the trial. geek/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 04:55:32 PM
Post by: Aidan_81 on September 30, 2011, 04:56:42 PM
immediately.
I'm more interested in differences between AA and paramedics testimony.
Body position on bed/floor etc. What was on the body.
AA was very nervous. Wonder if they "miss" details and confuse themselves
or simply lie.
Alarm was great btw. Just because.
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 04:57:02 PM
Who said that? The tabloids. None of them appeared in a video interview saying that. It was all said in a tabloid, so that doesn't mean inconsistency. They never said that. The tablods did.I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
Ya you're right, I don't know that the paramedics actually said it. It was suddenly just out there.
Wasn't there a "false" alarm the day Michael was taken to the hospital too?
YES. Coincidence? :lol:
Post by: Sarahli on September 30, 2011, 04:58:37 PM
Who said that? The tabloids. None of them appeared in a video interview saying that. It was all said in a tabloid, so that doesn't mean inconsistency. They never said that. The tablods did.I missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
I think it was initially said they didn't recognize him so that it would be yet another inconsistent re-telling of what happened/was seen that day.
Senneff said that he didn't recognize the "patient", that he didn't have time or didn't took the time to look at his face (or something to that effect).
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 04:58:57 PM
* Blount said when he entered MJ's room, he immediately recognized the patient.
* He said Murray was "flushed, sweating profusely, agitated," and yelling, "He needs help! Can you help him please?"
* Blount said he thought MJ was already dead when they arrived.
* When EMT workers asked Murray about the IV bag, he said he was giving MJ normal saline (salt water) because he was "dehydrated."
* An alarm just sounded in the courtroom. Apparently some kid accidentally pulled the alarm. The judge jokingly said, "Don't worry if it were an emergency, I'd be the first one out" ... he got a good laugh from the audience.
* Once they loaded MJ onto the ambulance, he noticed Murray scooping up Lidocaine bottles into a black bag.
* He said Murray told them MJ was only down for "about a minute" prior to their arrival.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on September 30, 2011, 04:59:51 PM
Alarms going off...
EDIT: Judge said accidental pull by a child...
I typed this (my quoted post) about 20-30 seconds into the alarms going off...4:26 my time OR 2:26 Los Angeles time...time of "death". WEIRD!
If that alarm did go off at 2:26,, that would be a HUGE clue!!
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 30, 2011, 05:10:24 PM
I wasn't sure which thread to post this in. TIAI seems to be the official trial thread for observations but it also relates to Front's posts in the Back thread so I'm posting it both, TS or Front or Back or MJ. I'm so confused!!! So there it is as well! LOLwow,very interesting analogy,you definitely are on to something.Great observation.
Wow! With all the talk about the fake seal only having 31 stars it made me think about Front’s post.
Front said:QuoteDEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT
The word “DEtAiLS” seems to hold a lot of KEYS. Was this another clue for us??? Maybe he's talking about some hidden meanings...... "DEALS" and "SEAL." Could be both and that's why he wrote it like he did. What do you guys think?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
.... thanks for the shout out Front ;)
LOL they keep on making mistakes with Michael’s name it seems. It was spelled Micheal on one of the documents from Senneff........the date of birth is wrong as well, of course! /woohoo/
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3521/michealmr.jpg)
... and this happened right after he was talking about his “BACKground” as a paramedic!!!!
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQffAxUTjD64IEP6akh_u8fBkUn3ILZcGPclR9aCffLvvWmKHGQ1A&t=1)
DEtAiLS…………….
take a seat in the "FRONT" row & focus on "BACKground" 8-)
Another interesting observation....1221 was circled on Senneff’s notes, as if to pinpoint to this being important. Of course it reminds us of 1221 ---> 21st December 2012!! 8-)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8241/teletype911.jpg)
And just before this was shown, the previous witness, Murray’s patient Mr. Robert Russell "coincidentally" or not, when talking about his heart problems, said that he felt like "it was the end of the world, the end of his world" ... clear link between the two in my opinion! LOL
I also noticed Robert being asked "did you feel abandoned?"... this seems to be a theme running through the trial so far.
Another odd point has got me thinking of 2 bodies LOL Alvarez had said that he and Murray had moved Michael’s body to the floor while making the 911 call, and it appeared that Michael was not fully clothed. However Senneff claimed that when he arrived only Murray was in the bedroom with the patient who was dressed in Pyjama bottoms and shirt and was on the bed. ????
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 05:10:56 PM
Anna the other paramedic said he didn't recognize MJ and he was told later it was MJI missed the paramedic's testimony - did he say anything about not recognizing Michael??He said
* Blount said when he entered the room he immediately knew it was Michael Jackson.
So the theory of not recognizing was a lie. Actually that was said by the tabloids, no one saw the paramedics saying they didn't recognize him or that he looked like a frail old man. That was from tabloids. So equal to zero as importance. That doesn't mean the paramedics ever said that.
None of this look good. None of this looks like a scenario being acted...
Post by: Sarahli on September 30, 2011, 05:15:33 PM
Blounts testimony so far:
* Blount said when he entered MJ's room, he immediately recognized the patient.
* He said Murray was "flushed, sweating profusely, agitated," and yelling, "He needs help! Can you help him please?"
* Blount said he thought MJ was already dead when they arrived.
* When EMT workers asked Murray about the IV bag, he said he was giving MJ normal saline (salt water) because he was "dehydrated."
* An alarm just sounded in the courtroom. Apparently some kid accidentally pulled the alarm. The judge jokingly said, "Don't worry if it were an emergency, I'd be the first one out" ... he got a good laugh from the audience.
* Once they loaded MJ onto the ambulance, he noticed Murray scooping up Lidocaine bottles into a black bag.
* He said Murray told them MJ was only down for "about a minute" prior to their arrival.
May I add something else? geek/ Blount said that Michael's skin was warm when/because he was on the bed but that it was cool when put on the floor. Senneff said it was cool, never mentioned warm. I remember there was a lot of talk about the room being extremely hot/warm that day; no mention about it so far.
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 05:24:12 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Sarahli on September 30, 2011, 05:32:30 PM
Post by: Andrea on September 30, 2011, 06:06:08 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say she is a REAL doctor, she knows her stuff. At least it certainly sounds that way. A lot of her testimony, so far, is speaking in general terms about procedures in an emergency room. The lawyer says "Michael Jackson", she usually says, "the patient" and doesn't necessarily refer to "that" day so much as standard emergency room scenarios.
Post by: airieslady on September 30, 2011, 06:10:43 PM
Post by: ignisaeternus on September 30, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
I noticed on that emergency medical report on the bottom says found on the floor with Murray performing CPR, but the EMT testify that MJ was found on the bed and they moved him to the floor.I keep going back and forth about this with friends and others on twitter. Some (nonbelievers) say it is inconsequential. WELL- no, not really. Let's remember these are witnesses for the prosecution. They are prepped BY prosecution. The DA KNOWS already what the answers will be- this is how a case works. Surprises by YOUR witnesses generally only happen in movies (hehe). So,- the DA would have known the details do not match up and they would have asked differently. Why would they manipulate their own case (if this was a real case).
In that- this "detail" is important. And where did the testimony of MJ with legs on the floor come from? Was he cold on the floor, move back to the bed, then EMTs came in too soon and he dropped back? Why in the world would his legs be off the bed, feet on the floor???? And how in the world aren't people catching on?
The mismatch in testimony to me points to a hoax court. Unless the sting is the media as others have said- since the NEVER catch on. And also, DO NOT ever report on any of the defense side (this was pointed out on HNL last night- "your viewers will think there is no defense they way you report it"- which would TOTALLY match the 05 case.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 06:27:39 PM
.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on September 30, 2011, 06:29:07 PM
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on September 30, 2011, 06:32:12 PM
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on September 30, 2011, 06:37:14 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 30, 2011, 06:38:01 PM
BTW, did someone see the BELIEVER on Jane Valdez!! She said he may have been kidnapped and is Alive.
I don't agree with the kidnap theory, but its nice to see a Believer on HLN.
They are also critiquing La Toya's outfit, like they are talking about an award show.
Post by: ignisaeternus on September 30, 2011, 06:48:01 PM
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on September 30, 2011, 06:48:35 PM
Post by: airieslady on September 30, 2011, 06:55:47 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on September 30, 2011, 06:59:19 PM
If all these people are actors, they're gonna need to shine some extra Oscars. I'm starting to think that someone really did die that day...and for them to have recognized the 'patient' as MJ, then it had to be someone who really looked like him.
:?: :?: :?:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on September 30, 2011, 07:00:52 PM
;)
Post by: Aidan_81 on September 30, 2011, 07:02:12 PM
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor...... ....
- yes, that body travelled a lot for sure :roll: Ok, so which ones do you think are lying this time? smiley_spider Again, ppl contradict themselves all the way, and I wonder if attorneys pay attention?
Or is it the plan? To dismiss some witnesses? To do... what?? /white flag/
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 30, 2011, 07:04:11 PM
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spider
[
Post by: ilovemjforever on September 30, 2011, 07:10:20 PM
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spiderisn't that the point so Murray will be acquitted.
[/quote
Post by: mjj4ever777 on September 30, 2011, 07:13:06 PM
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
Great screen catch Strangerincalifornia! Souza and I are on that one too!
I think that there will be many many more "surprises" for us coming up! I still believe that there was a terminal patient, who maybe Dr. Murray was helping, not MJ!
Post by: MichaelsAngel on September 30, 2011, 08:04:28 PM
Post by: AnaMarcia on September 30, 2011, 08:26:50 PM
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
That explains a lot!
The people ran away from the hospital, in this time a team helped Michael or doll go out of UCLA. With that they mislead possible curious!
I want to watch the testimony of the coroner. I think will be very important!
Post by: Mish1981 on September 30, 2011, 08:37:59 PM
I have noticed that today the judge said "REDIRECT exam" but the other days he said "CROSS exam" ... hmmm suspicious//
So your not confused (because it can be):
Right now all of the witnesses that are testifying are for the prosecution, so the prosecution asks them questions first. Then it's the defenses turn which is the cross examination. After the defense is done, the prosecution will have a chance to do a redirect, which is them asking more questions to the same person and the majority of the time it is to ask a question regarding something the defense has brought up (or vise versa when it's the defenses witness). When both sides are done they can either excuse the witness meaning they are both satisfied with what the witness has said or the witness can be told that they need to be on call to be questioned at a later time by either side.
I hope this helps.
Post by: paula-c on September 30, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
Quote
Senneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene -- but they tried to revive him for 47 minutes to no avail. He said Murray refused to let them declare a time of death.:roll: /judge/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 09:00:23 PM
his left wrist is way too small then the rest of his arm, the hand is swelled up about 3 sizes too big, his face looks like its been photoshopped....discoloration in the photo....
Post by: fatalkiss26 on September 30, 2011, 09:21:20 PM
http://www.theonion.com/articles/neverland-ranch-investigators-discover-corpse-of-r,1303/
Neverland Ranch Investigators Discover Corpse Of Real Michael Jackson
MARCH 16, 2005 | ISSUE 41•11
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SANTA BARBARA, CA—During a search for evidence at the Neverland Valley Ranch, investigators discovered a corpse that has been identified as that of Michael Jackson, Santa Barbara police officials announced Tuesday.
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"Coroners have officially pronounced Michael Jackson dead. From what we can tell, he died between 18 and 20 years ago," forensic investigator Tim Holbrooke said. "We are not certain, at this time, who—or what—has been standing trial in that Santa Maria courthouse."
According to Holbrooke, Jackson's corpse was buried just inches below a stretch of the miniature-train tracks that run throughout Neverland. The largely desiccated corpse wore the remains of a red, zipper-covered leather jacket and a single glove.
"We positively identified the body as Jackson by his dental records and DNA," Holbrooke said. "But even before we conducted a single forensic test, we began to suspect that that we'd uncovered the real Michael, and that the disturbing figure claiming to be Jackson was a fake."
Holbrooke said that, although the corpse was in an advanced stage of decomposition, when investigators compared the body to early-career publicity photos of Jackson, they saw a striking resemblance in bone structure and facial features. But when they compared the body to photos taken after 1987, the resemblance was negligible.
"This discovery raises a lot of questions, but it also sheds light on a number of disturbing incidents," Holbrooke said. "Frankly, Jackson had been acting pretty strange."
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Investigators move Jackson's body, found buried at Neverland Ranch (above).
Forensic experts and music critics are postulating that Jackson was dead before the release of the multi-platinum album Bad. Detectives are currently analyzing the lyrics to "Man In The Mirror" for any clues relating to a look-alike entity that many suspect murdered the youngest member of the Jackson 5 and assumed his identity.
"We believe that Neverland served as some sort of freakishly whimsical tomb constructed by Jackson's killer," Holbrooke said. "We also suspect that all of the iniquities that occurred on that ranch were the work of the imposter. I wouldn't have ever thought it possible, but we are looking at a situation where the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old cancer patient is the tip of the iceberg."
Holbrooke said that, while the living Jackson is the leading suspect in the murder investigation, he "could be another victim of some sort."
"Basically, we have no idea what type of creature we are dealing with," Holbrooke said.
A member of the investigative team that discovered Jackson's body described the experience as "otherworldly."
"As we neared the perimeter of Neverland, the dogs started whining and howling like crazy," Santa Barbara County detective Frank Poeller said. "We had to pull them into the house. When we got to Jackson's bedroom, one of them almost choked himself to death on his leash trying to get out through the window. Minutes later, the same dog led us to the corpse."
A representative from Jackson's self-created label, MJJ Productions, said he was not surprised to find out that the current Jackson is an imposter.
"When we were recording 'Heal The World' for Dangerous, I could tell something was terribly, terribly wrong," MJJ manager Luke Allard said. "Michael didn't seem like himself anymore. He'd demand bizarre food and sit for hours in a hyperbaric chamber. His appearance began to become more and more peculiar. Soon afterwards, he started wearing a mask and confiding in a chimpanzee."
"I remember thinking, 'This man has become a monster,'" Allard said. "If only I'd known how right I was."
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The creature that claims to be Michael Jackson.
Allard said he thinks that the imposter broke ties with Jackson's former friends and surrounded himself with children who were too young to notice the radical change.
Vanity Fair reporter Beth Pither visited Neverland in 1994.
"A strangely fearful staff member led me to Jackson, but ran off before I opened the door," Pither said. "Standing there with my hand on an ice-cold doorknob, I heard strange, unnatural sounds—leathery wings flapping, a sorrowful wail, and loud hissing. A wave of dread passed through me as I opened the door, but all I found was Michael and some kids in pajamas eating ice cream and watching 101 Dalmatians."
While their claims have not been corroborated, other Neverland visitors have reported that when Jackson entered a room, lights flickered, faucets ran blood-red, and screams escaped from the walls.
To aid in the investigation, the FBI enlisted Dr. Richard Weingarden, a noted expert on the paranormal from UC Santa Barbara. After only two hours, Weingarden abandoned the project.
"The smell of sulfur, the decaying facial features, the bizarrely high-pitched voice—it sounds exactly like..." Weingarden said, trailing off. "I'm sure it's nothing. Not a big deal. Nothing to be terrified about, certainly. I have to go. I've got a family."
Thomas Sneddon, the prosecutor in Jackson's child-molestation lawsuit, said it remains to be seen how the shocking discovery will affect the trial.
Megan Gustafson, who left her post as president of the Akron, OH Michael Jackson Fan Club after the singer was accused of molestation, offered a positive view of the grisly revelation.
"This is very disturbing news," Gustafson said. "But to be honest, it's kind of a relief too. Thriller and Off The Wall are really amazing records. Now I can pull them out of my 'ruined by child abuse' storage bin and start listening to them again."
has this been debunked and explained? And why have I never heard about this? WTF??
Post by: RK on September 30, 2011, 09:34:57 PM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 30, 2011, 09:36:32 PM
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spider
When Alvarez was speaking with the 911 operator he told him where are you doing the cpr, Alvarez said the patient is on the bed.. The operator said please put him on the floor on a flat hard surface. This was much before the emt arrived. Now you mean to tell me when the Emt arrived they were putting Michael s body on the floor? Are they doing it on purpose or what? Ok we all know it wasn t Michael but imagine if that person really needed help, Murray would have killed him ...
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 30, 2011, 09:44:36 PM
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
Great screen catch Strangerincalifornia! Souza and I are on that one too!
I think that there will be many many more "surprises" for us coming up! I still believe that there was a terminal patient, who maybe Dr. Murray was helping, not MJ!
I agree with you.. Someone who really was frail and skinny. How can they say Michael was so skinny we could have seen his ribs. Can t they see pictures of him on June 24/2009? For me he was healthy and well.. Their testimony does not make any sense. (Well of course they have to lie in order to save Murray behind.. lol)
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 30, 2011, 09:48:09 PM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 30, 2011, 09:54:49 PM
Dr. Cooper is not acting and I don't think she's lying. I think she honestly believes Mr. Jackson was there that day, dead on arrival.
.
Ginafelicia how about this scenario, they had to have a real doctor to see that it was MJ dead. Then there were some doctors who were working for Michael on this hoax, and helped him escape that day. It does not mean because she saw MJ it was really him.. You know what they say there is 2 sides of a coin, you need to analyse both sides. You give up to easily.. You see I gave you an option doesn t it make you feel better?
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 30, 2011, 10:03:57 PM
Post by: Adi on September 30, 2011, 10:25:23 PM
Ok so I haven't left but have just been reading. I can't believe people are catching these inconsistencies. Nothing makes sense. And is it just me or doesn't it seem like the lawyers are just going through the motions without any feeling? There have hardly been any objections and they don't seem to be questioning witnesses about these inconsistencies. I agree that this is a hoax court but that there is a "sting" component to it as well. I can't see a real court room allowing a picture of Michael supposedly dead to be used as the background of a powerpoint...I mean WTF?? That is incredibly disrespectful if it were actually true. And I can't believe they would allow them to play the audio of Michael "intoxicated" when there is no confirmation that it is actually him. There are toys in the courtroom and everyone seems half asleep. I can see how this trial could be used to expose the media and their half-assed reporting and the medical community. However, I need to see more proof that that is the case. This trial is definitely a masterpiece Michael /bravo/
Alberto Alvarez testified that him and Murray moved the body to the floor while on the phone with 911. The other security guard Faheem Muhammed testified that the body was on the floor when he walked in the room (after the 911 call but before paramedics arrived). Richard Senneff testified that when he entered the room (the first paramedic to do so), the body was halfway on the bed with the top half on the bed n the legs toward the floor (awkward position in the first place). Martin Blount (the last paramedic in the room) testified that the body was completely on the bed. That document (which I think i fake) states that the patient was found "supline on the floor." ???/ Soooooo would the prosecution like to explain what is going on? Since they know the witnesses testimonies beforehand. smiley_spider
I AGREE with both of the above posts ;)) !
I haven't posted much but I've been reading everyone's observations about the trial here & trying to watch the trial live when I can but the time zone differences mean the trial is on in the middle of the night here so I haven't been able to watch all of it.
There are so many inconsistencies between the testimonies of the prosecution witnesses. What the hell is going on?? Doesn't anyone outside hoax world pick this up? Why isn't this being picked up by the Defence as well???
That death photo on the gurney - how the hell did that get through? It is so obviously photoshopped/tampered with. His entire body is just so out of proportion in that picture. No objections though of it being shown.
The voice recording as well? The message in that recording is wonderful and the thought processes seem coherent and if it is MJ acting in a drugged manner (probably laughing his a*se off at the same time) then it would be phenomenal to open a children's hospital in his name....but still how did it manage to get played in the court? nobody really knows if it is MJ or if it isn't MJ AND nobody objected to it being played!!!!
Plus the Great Seal having the incorrect number of stars on it and now the "coincidence" of the fire alarm going off at the time of Michael's "death" at 2:26. Spelling his name incorrectly and date of birth is wrong on that EMT attendance form and still this is allowed to be shown in court and NO-ONE objected saying it was wrong????
lolol/
Many parts of this court have me rolling around on the floor laughing......there are so many WTF?? moments it's hilarious
I have to go with:
HOAX COURT HOAX COURT bounce/ bounce/ bounce/
I thought there may be a sting element in there as well.....and there may yet be. I have just not yet been able to figure out the who/what and I'm thinking if there is a sting then it will be MEGA!
Post by: Mish1981 on September 30, 2011, 10:43:52 PM
The fire alarm was pulled at 2:26...the time of death!!
This is a screenshot i took of the chat when the fire alarm went off. I'm currently on the east coast so the time difference is 3 hours.
Great screen catch Strangerincalifornia! Souza and I are on that one too!
I think that there will be many many more "surprises" for us coming up! I still believe that there was a terminal patient, who maybe Dr. Murray was helping, not MJ!
I agree with you.. Someone who really was frail and skinny. How can they say Michael was so skinny we could have seen his ribs. Can t they see pictures of him on June 24/2009? For me he was healthy and well.. Their testimony does not make any sense. (Well of course they have to lie in order to save Murray behind.. lol)
I also don't see how they can make the assumption that he was frail and skinny. His legs look a little skinner in TII but I also think that is due to all of the training (said from Lou) and rehearsing. I think that's going to cause anyone who works out that much to lose a little bit of weight. Also who's to say that he didn't lose a little bit of weight in his legs but the muscle got stronger. As Lou said in his interview it's not like Michael was lifting weights but he was working out to strengthen his leg muscles (if I'm not mistaken). We read all the time about how artist are preparing themselves to go out on tour so they start a healthy diet, start working out more etc to prepare themselves and more so their bodies.
My step-son is really skinny and when he lifts his arms up you can see his ribs, trust when I say he will eat anyone out of the house and according to his doctor whom he recently saw he's as healthy as a horse! He gets it from my husband who until he hit 33 or 34 looked like he was 18 (if only we were all that lucky). Point being, you can't look at someone and say oh they must be sick,frail and unhealthy regardless if they are skinny or a little thick unless you know their medical background.
Post by: bec on September 30, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on September 30, 2011, 11:41:33 PM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
I also may add they spelled Michael s name wrong.. (Micheal) I guess this is a fake..
Post by: _Anna_ on September 30, 2011, 11:43:26 PM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
Bec, on TMZ, after Richard Senneff's testymony, TMZ updated by points what he said. Although they deleted a big part of it after an hour or so. TMZ reported in the same article 12.20 and 12.22 as the hour when the 911 call was made.
Post by: RK on September 30, 2011, 11:47:52 PM
Post by: bec on October 01, 2011, 12:06:19 AM
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Post by: bec on October 01, 2011, 12:13:07 AM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
Ok, so MicHEAL was born on 08.28.58 geek/
was this shown again in court now?
They said 12:20 first and then 12:22. None was 12:21. So what happens with the theory and calculations with 12:21 that TS made?
(Where did you see 12:20?)
Nothing happens to them. The 911 call was placed at 12:21(:04), as you can see on this document. Paramedics received the call and were dispatched at 12:22. 911 calls do not automatically dispatch rescue crews. The 911 operators have to make the decision to dispatch either fire, rescue, or police depending on the call. A 56 second response time from the 911 operator seems reasonable.
Bec, on TMZ, after Richard Senneff's testymony, TMZ updated by points what he said. Although they deleted a big part of it after an hour or so. TMZ reported in the same article 12.20 and 12.22 as the hour when the 911 call was made.
Senneff's testimony is about the only thing i saw of court today. I remember him saying he was dispatched at 12:22. I do not remember him saying anything about when the 911 call was placed. I remember this pretty well because the 12:22 tripped me up for a second and I knew it would be discussed here. Any mention of a "call coming in" by Senneff means from 911 dispatch, not from a 911 caller.
Ps. I don't care what TMZ said, considering they also said MJ is dead (and Murray was pacing :roll:). I know what I heard Senneff say. Twice now Judge Pastor has stressed that when the transcript doesn't match what you hear, you should rely on your own judgement. Transcripts are just a guide.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 12:23:36 AM
fatalkiss...this satirical article is one of many that have been around and discussed since the beginning of the hoax. There are some doozies out there and the majority of them have been discussed disected and discreditted very early on.
Ok just checking...I found it rather odd because it came up on a lyric website and i was like huh?? LOL
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 12:28:59 AM
and the fact they don't play the WHOLE thing anymore...all the news outlets cut it off at "go...go...go..." WTF??
Post by: _Anna_ on October 01, 2011, 12:35:50 AM
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Yes, the question is WHY is it fake, no wether it is or not at the court, but I'm thinking about something else now- the seal is wrong, it was made for the streams and TV, it is not a spot on which the camera is fixed during breaks, it's just a background screen created for streams breaks- but the trial actually takes place at the court because you see fans, people around there, you saw Flanagan going out from the real court on live stream, etc. So if it takes place at the real court, wouldn't it still mean entrapment and fraud? Regardless the background seal shown on TV. Even being fake, the whole trial takes place there, it's not a set up. Wouldn't that mean fraud because the court is the real court? You imagine that people from there WOULD go at the court, fans, to support, etc. They would see if there is actual move there or not. So it's not a studio.
Post by: bec on October 01, 2011, 12:43:45 AM
Just kidding.
No, I don't think doing it at a real courthouse in a real courtroom constitutes entrapment so long as the proceedings are clearly not official in nature. The state seal makes everything official government business, from documents to letterheads to courtrooms. A fake seal renders these things invalid. There was another fake seal in the last 2 years as I recall, DC perhaps? Off the top of my head I don't remember which document but it was also something obviously inaccurate about the seal. It was CA also.
(edited to add: what I'm trying to say is that a state seal is like a government signature. A falsified signature renders a document, transaction, or agreement invalid. Forging a signature is done with the goal of being an exact replica, ie performed with the intent to deceive. In this case, the incorrect seal is not fraudulent because this replica is clearly and obviously not the same... visible by anyone who cares to notice.)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 01, 2011, 12:45:02 AM
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../../images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Without degrading my intelligence perhaps someone can help me understand the whole seal issue. I understand there are 32 stars on one and 31 on another, we being hoaxers and looking/finding for things that others would normally not notice has become a daily routine in our lives, how is this suppose to be explained for the general public (non-believers) that this is a hoax/sting court and can prevent entrapment? The stars are not that easy to spot and something that people would just pick up on while waiting for court to start. I hope what I am saying and asking makes sense.
Post by: bec on October 01, 2011, 12:53:01 AM
Post by: darkchild on October 01, 2011, 03:01:23 AM
Now I type thisisalsoit.com and I was redirected to this forum! :?: Very strange I am so confused by TIAI /pull hair/. I wish I understood it /pull hair/ /white flag/.
Post by: Adi on October 01, 2011, 03:09:33 AM
@Anna, that's where all the other 999,999 clues come in. Lol.
Just kidding.
No, I don't think doing it at a real courthouse in a real courtroom constitutes entrapment so long as the proceedings are clearly not official in nature. The state seal makes everything official government business, from documents to letterheads to courtrooms. A fake seal renders these things invalid. There was another fake seal in the last 2 years as I recall, DC perhaps? Off the top of my head I don't remember which document but it was also something obviously inaccurate about the seal. It was CA also.
(edited to add: what I'm trying to say is that a state seal is like a government signature. A falsified signature renders a document, transaction, or agreement invalid. Forging a signature is done with the goal of being an exact replica, ie performed with the intent to deceive. In this case, the incorrect seal is not fraudulent because this replica is clearly and obviously not the same... visible by anyone who cares to notice.)
Yeah there was Bec...wasn't it on the Autopsy Report? Didn't they use an out of date LA Coroners Seal on it?
I just recall there being a TIAI redirect back in the dark ages ( :lol: ) to an information page on the LA Coroners website by TS and it kept swapping between pages every hour almost to highlight something that we were missing and then somebody finally picked up that the current LA Coroners seal used on their website was different to the one used on the AR......
Well this is from my memory anyway......but I think that was it. ;))
Different Seals are becoming a common theme in this 8-)
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 01, 2011, 03:45:06 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XV1K8ewp4lU/ToKjNaFkINI/AAAAAAAAC7s/Xk0lHm29xH8/s1600/jackospellingpop.jpg)
MICHEAL + MICHEAL :D
Post by: trublu on October 01, 2011, 03:57:58 AM
"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
Post by: Elsa on October 01, 2011, 04:26:19 AM
I am wondering about sworn testimonies and the laws regarding this in the states. I am assuming one cannot go to prison for perjury for lying under oath it is a hoax court, although, those religious people may find it unethical. Is a sworn testimony only valid in court? Or in the presence of legal officials too?
"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
I haven't seen anyone sworn in.
Post by: Adi on October 01, 2011, 04:35:05 AM
I am wondering about sworn testimonies and the laws regarding this in the states. I am assuming one cannot go to prison for perjury for lying under oath it is a hoax court, although, those religious people may find it unethical. Is a sworn testimony only valid in court? Or in the presence of legal officials too?
"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
Yep - I am not sure if the camera is on the witnesses when they are sworn in. Does anyone else???
I only recall the lady with the elephant on her desk reading the oath to the witness but I can't recall if the camera moves to the witness to show them raising their hand and saying "I do"
Anyway - they do this oath all the time in other movies about court cases....so this shouldn't be any different :lol: 8-)
Post by: curls on October 01, 2011, 04:49:24 AM
You can say and do anything if you're acting - that's the simplest way to make sense of all this. The world is witnessing MJ in full creative production mode, an epic reality live film shoot if you like - it's just that most haven't realised that's what's happening - yet!
If you don't want 'the simplest way' ...... guess that's what 2 years of investigating have been about!
Post by: SimPattyK on October 01, 2011, 05:12:55 AM
[...]
@ TS: I'm happy to see you back! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/chirolp_wink.gif)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2087/elviskangaroo.jpg)
With Mj & Elvis pulling the strings ^^
from the shadows of this ...
Kangaroo-Mascarade-Trial... :lol: :lol:
IT'S ONLY A MOVIE !!
The BEST ever !!
:) 8) :-*
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMpCb1sEJVc[/youtube]
IT'S ONLY A MOVIE !!- TOPIC:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20662.0.html
from the shadows of this ...
Kangaroo-Mascarade-Trial... :lol: :lol:
IT'S ONLY A MOVIE !!
The BEST ever !!
:) 8) :-*
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMpCb1sEJVc[/youtube]
IT'S ONLY A MOVIE !!- TOPIC:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20662.0.html
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 01, 2011, 06:46:28 AM
Look at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Yes, the question is WHY is it fake, no wether it is or not at the court, but I'm thinking about something else now- the seal is wrong, it was made for the streams and TV, it is not a spot on which the camera is fixed during breaks, it's just a background screen created for streams breaks- but the trial actually takes place at the court because you see fans, people around there, you saw Flanagan going out from the real court on live stream, etc. So if it takes place at the real court, wouldn't it still mean entrapment and fraud? Regardless the background seal shown on TV. Even being fake, the whole trial takes place there, it's not a set up. Wouldn't that mean fraud because the court is the real court? You imagine that people from there WOULD go at the court, fans, to support, etc. They would see if there is actual move there or not. So it's not a studio.
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
Post by: angel on October 01, 2011, 06:56:47 AM
Post by: curls on October 01, 2011, 07:13:19 AM
[
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
I've been wondering too about the camera controlling the live feed. All the media sources I've watched have the same footage, including the seal. WHO is controlling what is filmed and when the audio gets cut etc? Is there just one camera and is there a physical camerman there?
Post by: keyboardwizz on October 01, 2011, 07:54:13 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 01, 2011, 08:22:24 AM
But what if he's telling the truth...and it was erased? Who would've had access to the tapes in order to erase them? There's been a lot of emphasis on Mike's 'security' during the trial so far. Michael Amir's testimony seemed pretty much in line with Fareem's (can't remember the correct spelling). But Alvarez's testimony just doesn't add up...based on both EMT's testimonies, his story can't be true. Maybe there was a conspiracy afterall...and somehow Alvarez is connected? (Makes me think of the scene from TII during Man in the Mirror, when Alvarez is shown through the glass). I don't remember when Alvarez began working for Mike in 2009 (I know he had previously done some work for Mike over the years)...but if I remember correctly, Kai began working for Mike in March 2009 (I may not be remembering that right, though).
It's just so difficult to separate fact from fiction! Mike kept saying people were trying to kill him...was this true or just part of the script? If true, he believed 'they' were trying to poison him (reminds me of Back's post about 'poisoned through the veins'). Kai stated she prepared all of Mike's food---breakfast, lunch, and dinner and all the juices Mike drank. She would have the perfect 'means' to poison him if that was her intention.
I'm just thinking out loud here...there's isn't enough evidence yet to prove any conspiracy at all. But something definitely doesn't add up....especially because most times it seems like the prosecution AND the defense are working on the same team...or at least, both are being led to the truth.
I feel like I'm in a real-life game of Clue bangbang
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: minuminu on October 01, 2011, 08:39:38 AM
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Post by: BeTheChange on October 01, 2011, 08:54:49 AM
There's no need to panic...and especially no need to 'try' to discredit TS (hi minuminu...I see you're still here). All the info TS has given us to date is rock-solid...if it wasn't, someone would've claimed the prize $ by now. I haven't seen anyone even come close to doing that. Until such time that someone does, TS and all his info is to be trusted.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 01, 2011, 09:31:18 AM
Wasn't there a "false" alarm the day Michael was taken to the hospital too?
es there was
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 01, 2011, 09:55:38 AM
Also it was went off 7 times then it stopped, then it started again and went till 11 and then stopped, then it started again and went till 18 and then stopped,then it started again and went till 22 and then stopped,then it started again and went till 28 and then stopped,then it started again and went till 32 and then stopped,then it started again and went till 39 and then stopped,then it started again and went till 43 and then stopped.
7,11,18,22,28,32,39,43 (don't know if that means anything though)
Post by: paula-c on October 01, 2011, 10:22:52 AM
QuoteSenneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene -- but they tried to revive him for 47 minutes to no avail. He said Murray refused to let them declare a time of death.:roll: /judge/
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death. He also stated that continue resuscitation for so long it made sense, but if Michael be "dead" when the being :roll: And this is the room where it was once again the resuscitation, why so many neon lights it is rare that photo WTF?? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-mjs-er-gurney.jpg)
Post by: paula-c on October 01, 2011, 10:26:20 AM
QuoteSenneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene -- but they tried to revive him for 47 minutes to no avail. He said Murray refused to let them declare a time of death.:roll: /judge/
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death. He also stated that continue resuscitation for so long it made sense, but if Michael be "dead" when the being :roll: And this is the room where it was once again the resuscitation, why so many neon lights it is rare that photo WTF?? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-mjs-er-gurney.jpg)
eyes open (http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/16/09/46/48/mjacks11.jpg)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 01, 2011, 10:38:20 AM
Mish, because they could have done exactly what we did. It's not MJ's fault they believe in lies and rumors. We cared to know the truth, so we looked for it. Anyone could have done what we did... they just chose not to.
Thank you for the explanation Bec.
Post by: PureLove on October 01, 2011, 10:53:11 AM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XV1K8ewp4lU/ToKjNaFkINI/AAAAAAAAC7s/Xk0lHm29xH8/s1600/jackospellingpop.jpg)
MICHEAL + MICHEAL :D
/bravo/ So the person who died is MicHEAL and not MicHAEL. geek/
Post by: MichaelsAngel on October 01, 2011, 11:03:28 AM
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........
From my understanding the original call was placed at 12:20 to 911, which immediately goes to the local police station. The police station then transferred the call at 12:21 to the LA fire department, who then received it at 12:22. Did I get that wrong??
Post by: jono on October 01, 2011, 11:06:50 AM
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/411461912.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XV1K8ewp4lU/ToKjNaFkINI/AAAAAAAAC7s/Xk0lHm29xH8/s1600/jackospellingpop.jpg)
MICHEAL + MICHEAL :D
Notice the word HEAL in Micheal :D
Definition of heal
healed, heal·ing, heals
1. To restore to health or soundness; cure. See Synonyms at cure.
2. To set right; repair: healed the rift between us.
3. To restore (a person) to spiritual wholeness.
To become whole and sound; return to health.
party/
Post by: nefertari on October 01, 2011, 11:20:45 AM
wow this is very interesting,it all makes sense to me.Micheal a messenger for God ,impressive. OMG!I try to guess the date of the level 7 ... .... afraid/ ::P
27/02/2012
2 +7 +2 +2 +1 +2 =16 6 +1 = 7
Five months after 27/09/2011, the day the trial began
Revelation 9:1-11
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
From wikiedia
Abaddon is a transcription of a Hebrew word used as a proper name to indicate the name of the Angel of the Abyss in the Apocalypse of John (chapter 9, verse 11 and ch. 20, verse 1) symmetry in the Angel of the Abyss Job (chapter 33, verses 23 and 24). The Hebrew name Abaddon is the greek name Apollyon (the destroyer), which can also be likened to the god Apollo. As in Job, his figure is linked to that of the Angel Alef, or the Angel of Joshua (Chapter 5, verses 14 and 15) and Judah (Chapter 9), we can deduce that it is the same Archangel Michael.
For some it is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, Abaddon is the ruler of the bottomless pit (Jude Thaddeus, VI) and the king of an army of locusts of the Apocalypse.
"Abaddon, however, is not an angel of Satan but of God, who accomplishes his work of destruction by order of God." - The Interpreter's Bible, edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1957, vol. XII, p. 434.
Great guess! I just bolded some extra parts that tie into some other hoax-related elements. I don't know if this passage could be connected or was used as inspiration for certain parts of this adventure but it is interesting nonetheless. I am not a big Bible reader but since this is MJ's production and I know that he read the Bible a lot then this is plausible.
Sorry for the delay and for OT but I want to say thanks to looking4truth and ilovemjforever for consider my hypothesis. However I was not a great reader of the Bible as well, but now I'm just trying to figure out because I am convinced that book was his source of inspiration for this project. It is just as difficult to interpret.
Thanks again bearhug
Post by: trublu on October 01, 2011, 11:45:22 AM
[/color]Can you let me know what evidence you have please??
Post by: jono on October 01, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
Ah, so you are back again?! Well, that is just splendid, isn't it?? lolol/Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Don't be sad! bearhug
Post by: Mish1981 on October 01, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
[
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
I've been wondering too about the camera controlling the live feed. All the media sources I've watched have the same footage, including the seal. WHO is controlling what is filmed and when the audio gets cut etc? Is there just one camera and is there a physical camerman there?
Speaking of cameras, I would like to know where the camera is set up in the courtroom that we are viewing. What seems weird to me is normally the jury box is right up against the wall, well if we remember the prosecution showing evidence to the jury, he's practically right in front of the camera right but that's where the jury is. Also, someone said that when the jury came into the room they had to walk towards Katherine to get into the seats. So I have a pretty good idea of where Katherine and the rest of the family was sitting. Was Katherine sitting right next to the camera? Probably not. We could also guess that the cameras were past the jury box next to the wall as if you were leaving or entering the room, but then we wouldn't get the angle that we are getting we would see more of their backs. I hope this makes sense.
Any thoughts?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 11:52:23 AM
<img src="http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315603_121402057966216_100002892672394_107077_1220915569_n.jpg">
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 11:54:46 AM
name misspelled again...
Post by: Sarahli on October 01, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3703/securitypictrial.jpg)
Maybe that's why there was so much trash in front of the security trailer that day? :lol: suspicious//
Post by: Mish1981 on October 01, 2011, 12:14:47 PM
Obviously there is something fishy with the security. Someone mentioned it already I think, Kai Chase couldn't name the security guard who let her in. In the vehicles heading to UCLA it seems there were other security personnel but no one seems to recall who exactly ... hmmm.
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3703/securitypictrial.jpg)
Maybe that's why there was so much trash in front of the security trailer that day? :lol: suspicious//
Those look like recyclable bags, those also look like posters inside of them. That would be horrible if those were from the fans that stalk....I mean stand outside of the house all night waiting to see Michael.
Just my thought of course.
Post by: Grace on October 01, 2011, 12:20:20 PM
And this is the room where it was once again the resuscitation, why so many neon lights it is rare that photo WTF?? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-mjs-er-gurney.jpg)
"ER":
Quote
ER is an American medical drama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_drama) television series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_series) created by novelist Michael Crichton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton) that aired on NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC) from September 19, 1994 to April 2, 2009.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ER_%28TV_series%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ER_%28TV_series%29)
Lights in the refrigerators - for the drinks, the milk or the drugs?
Lights on = spot on = focus on?
The photo made me rethink the "IV" stands.
IV is number four in latin.
Maybe we should consider "four stands" instead.
The four richest persons in the U.S.:
- Bill Gates
- Warren Buffet
- Larry Ellison
- The Koch brothers (Koch Industries)
http://www.helium.com/items/2234700-the-five-wealthiest-men-in-america (http://www.helium.com/items/2234700-the-five-wealthiest-men-in-america)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 01, 2011, 12:20:59 PM
I wasn't trying to prove there was no seal behind the judge although there isn't one as you pointed out. If that was what I was saying I would have wrote it. I was referencing the wall PANELLING which is smooth in the screen grab from the court room. The panel wall background on the seal that the TV station puts up has individual slats. The exact same questions you presented to me can be asked of you to prove that this seal we see when the camera goes off is actually real and somewhere in the courtroom and or court building. Can you prove this is a hoax seal made by someone in MJ's camp? Can you prove it comes from somewhere else and is fed to the courtroom camera? bangbangLook at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Yes it appears that only one TV station is live and is feeding all the other stations.
http://www.trutv.com/about/insession/index.html
Quote
In Session Trial Footage Archive
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IN SESSION (previously Court TV) is the only television network to serve as a window into the American justice system. Programming consists of live coverage of criminal and civil trials from around the country, as well as expert analysis from the network's award-winning legal journalists. The network has covered more than 950 trials since its inception and is considered the leading media outlet for trial coverage by many in and out of the courtroom.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/about/insession/grab-trial_screenshots.jpg)
The Leader in Trial Content
With nearly 90,000 hours of raw courtroom footage, including many high-profile celebrity cases, IN SESSION (and previously as Court TV) has covered both criminal and civil trials. The archive contains courtroom action from opening statements to verdict and sentencing.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/ssi/sect/2.0/blogs/cnninsession/insession.header.jpg)
Quote
About this blog
Your online home for HLN and In Session on truTV’s up-to-the minute, comprehensive coverage of the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Our anchors, analysts and producers are teaming up here for trial reporting and observations that stretch from what witnesses and attorneys are saying in the L.A. court room to what you’re saying in the office break room.
From opening statements to closing arguments, you won’t miss a bit of powerful testimony as a California jury weighs whether Murray is to blame for the death of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.
Be sure to tune in to In Session on tru TV from 9 a.m. – 3 p.m. ET and HLN ALL day for LIVE wall-to-wall coverage and key analysis of the trial.
Monstertooty called and was told they maybe made a mistake when they made it for TV??Who did Monstertooty call? The answer speaks for itself. They (TV station maybe?) someone who was unfamiliar with the CA seal?
smiley_spider
You just made me wonder, remember the "funeral" when all the live feed went through the Jacksons they controlled it and cut it off when the funeral started. Could this be one camera in the court which is controlled and fed out to other media sources like at the funeral? That way it would all have the same seal on when they were on a break? JMO not saying it correct.
I've been wondering too about the camera controlling the live feed. All the media sources I've watched have the same footage, including the seal. WHO is controlling what is filmed and when the audio gets cut etc? Is there just one camera and is there a physical camerman there?
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 01, 2011, 12:32:11 PM
Also, a member of Chernoff’s team made a television appearance on the Today Show yesterday. No one can tell me he didn’t know this was a no-no.
Kai Chase went back to cooking. No way she would have done that if he thought Michael was in danger.
Michael must have been the first body discussed before the pramedics arrived and the 2nd body of Micheal replaced it for the hoax. Since it was dressed and had on a cap and was being hoisted off the bed, still attached to an IV and the line still in the leg. They I’m guessing didn’t have enough time to do all of that before th para’s got there. Sounds like 2 different people used to creat some confusion in this scene. I don’t know but the security would not have made that many mistakes, both said the same thing.
My question is if not Michael, who did they take to the hospital? Or are they tring to go along and not make themselves not look like idiots upon learning that they had been working on a dummy, OMG! lolol/ That would really be a hoot :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 12:32:35 PM
Elected Officials
City Council District 5 Paul Koretz
County Supervisor District 3 ZEV YAROSLAVSKY
State Senate District 26 Curren D. Price, Jr.
State Assembly District 42 Mike Feuer
US Congress District 30 Henry A. Waxman
Regional Services
Video TV Service
<b>Trash Collection WEDNESDAY</b>
Yeah, I think that photo is either old or staged, trash collection was the day BEFORE he died....why would they let that trash sit there...trash and recycling are picked up on the same day...( I live in CA)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 12:35:38 PM
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 01, 2011, 12:42:33 PM
Post by: Sarahli on October 01, 2011, 12:46:03 PM
Obviously there is something fishy with the security. Someone mentioned it already I think, Kai Chase couldn't name the security guard who let her in. In the vehicles heading to UCLA it seems there were other security personnel but no one seems to recall who exactly ... hmmm.
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3703/securitypictrial.jpg)
Maybe that's why there was so much trash in front of the security trailer that day?
Those look like recyclable bags, those also look like posters inside of them. That would be horrible if those were from the fans that stalk....I mean stand outside of the house all night waiting to see Michael.
Just my thought of course.
Garbage, trash... is a "theme" that we've seen throughout the hoax as if to say "don't believe what's going on, it's garbage", here is another example:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/ambulanceandERgarbage.jpg)
Post by: ilovemjforever on October 01, 2011, 12:56:38 PM
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:None of this proves T.S is fake.There are obviously a lot of layers to this hoax.I believe somebody did die that day,but not M.J.
Post by: ilovemjforever on October 01, 2011, 01:07:03 PM
What is the role an title of the woman doing the signaling in of witnesses. I haven’t see a Bible yet. It seems that’s all she’s there for and she doesn’t look professional IMO.Great analysis,but what if there was no dummy,what if a real person actually died there.Not Micheal,but some one else,hospice patient,maybe. /overreacting/
Also, a member of Chernoff’s team made a television appearance on the Today Show yesterday. No one can tell me he didn’t know this was a no-no.
Kai Chase went back to cooking. No way she would have done that if he thought Michael was in danger.
Michael must have been the first body discussed before the pramedics arrived and the 2nd body of Micheal replaced it for the hoax. Since it was dressed and had on a cap and was being hoisted off the bed, still attached to an IV and the line still in the leg. They I’m guessing didn’t have enough time to do all of that before th para’s got there. Sounds like 2 different people used to creat some confusion in this scene. I don’t know but the security would not have made that many mistakes, both said the same thing.
My question is if not Michael, who did they take to the hospital? Or are they tring to go along and not make themselves not look like idiots upon learning that they had been working on a dummy, OMG! lolol/ That would really be a hoot :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: Yambo3003 on October 01, 2011, 01:36:06 PM
Post by: wishingstar on October 01, 2011, 03:13:15 PM
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:None of this proves T.S is fake.There are obviously a lot of layers to this hoax.I believe somebody did die that day,but not M.J.
The time of 12:21 came directly from the firetruck screen:
http://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/MDT-Michael-Jackson.jpg
Hi TS....hope all is well.
Blessings
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 01, 2011, 03:59:01 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on October 01, 2011, 05:59:33 PM
Greatest FAKE ever!
Is it from Scream or Stranger in Moscow ?
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5006/30887510150847799935545.jpg)
Is it from Scream or Stranger in Moscow ?
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5006/30887510150847799935545.jpg)
photo-source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150847799935545&set=o.166081402401&type=1&ref=nf
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 07:28:22 PM
Ok, this puzzles me...you are NOT allowed to leave any cans on the street after trash day. If trash pickup is Wednesday, he died on Thursday, then why are all the cans there? it's ILLEGAL in Los Angeles to leave your cans on a street, alley yes, street, NO. I live on a main street in San Diego, my cans have to be off the street by the following day or you get a fine.
The ambulance video was staged. It did not happen on that Thursday. If someone can convince me otherwise , perhaps the tour bus that came through there that day, then hell no...
Why I never noticed the trash before....and the cans ...sigh...what a sloppy hoax they have going...
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on October 01, 2011, 07:45:52 PM
What is the role an title of the woman doing the signaling in of witnesses. I haven’t see a Bible yet. It seems that’s all she’s there for and she doesn’t look professional IMO.Great analysis,but what if there was no dummy,what if a real person actually died there.Not Micheal,but some one else,hospice patient,maybe. /overreacting/
Also, a member of Chernoff’s team made a television appearance on the Today Show yesterday. No one can tell me he didn’t know this was a no-no.
Kai Chase went back to cooking. No way she would have done that if he thought Michael was in danger.
Michael must have been the first body discussed before the pramedics arrived and the 2nd body of Micheal replaced it for the hoax. Since it was dressed and had on a cap and was being hoisted off the
bed, still attached to an IV and the line still in the leg. They I’m guessing didn’t have enough time to do all of that before th para’s got there. Sounds like 2 different people used to creat some confusion in this scene. I don’t know but the security would not have made that many mistakes, both said the same thing.
My question is if not Michael, who did they take to the hospital? Or are they tring to go along and not make themselves not look like idiots upon learning that they had been working on a dummy, OMG!
lolol/ That would really be a hoot :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe it was a MJ impersonator...
Post by: Andrea on October 01, 2011, 07:51:33 PM
Does anybody follow any "deaders" forums? What are they saying? I think it would be most intriguing to see how they're trying to explain all of this...if they're noticing at all...
I really think our members here will increase!
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 01, 2011, 08:09:41 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html
I'll highlight the interesting parts and we can discuss them if you like...I'm bored :)
Pop star Michael Jackson was pronounced dead today after <b>paramedics found him in a coma at his Bel-Air mansion, city and law enforcement sources told The Times.</b>
Los Angeles Fire Department Capt. Steve Ruda told The Times that paramedics responded to a 911 call from the home.<b> When they arrived, Jackson was not breathing.</b>
The paramedics performed CPR and took Jackson to UCLA Medical Center, Ruda said. Hundreds of reporters gathered at the hospital awaiting word on his condition. <b>The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said family members rushed to Jackson’s bedside, where he was in a deep coma.</b>
The circumstances of Jackson’s death remain unclear. Law enforcement sources said that Los Angeles Police Department robbery-homicide detectives have opened an investigation into the death, though <b>they stressed that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing.</b>
The detectives plan to interview relatives, friends and Jackson’s doctors to try to figure out what happened. The L.A. County coroner’s office will determine a cause of death. A Los Angeles Fire Department source told The Times that<b> Jackson was in full cardiac arrest when rescue units arrived.</b>
A doctor was in the house performing CPR on Jackson, said the source who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Paramedics were called to a home in the 100 block of Carolwood Drive off Sunset Boulevard.
Jackson rented the Bel-Air home -- described as a French chateau built in 2002 with seven bedrooms, 13 bathrooms, 12 fireplaces and a theater -- for $100,000 a month. The home is about a six-minute drive from UCLA Medical Center. Jackson has three children -- sons Prince Michael 7, and Michael Joseph Jackson Jr., 12, and daughter Paris Michael Katherine, 11.
Jackson, 50, died as he was attempting a comeback after years of tabloid headlines, most notably his trial and acquittal on child molestation charges.
In May, The Times reported that Jackson had rented the Bel-Air residence and was rehearsing for a series of 50 sold-out shows in London's O2 Arena. Jackson had won the backing of two billionaires to get the so-called "King of Pop" back on stage.
His backers envisioned the shows at AEG's O2 as an audition for a career <b>rebirth that could have ultimately encompassed a three-year world tour, a new album, movies, a Graceland-like museum, musical revues in Las Vegas and Macau, and even a "Thriller" casino.</b> Such a rebound could have wiped out Jackson's massive debt.
We already have the Cirque show, Michael jackson slot machines in Vegas, the Michael Jackson video games, the new albums, hmm.... ::)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 01, 2011, 08:51:45 PM
The still of the FBI guy is from the above video.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/FBIagent-1.jpg)
Do these 2 look alike? All these bald dudes. confused/ fresse/ confused/
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/lawyer-1-1.jpg)
The still above is from the video below.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfY7N0AmZoY[/youtube]
SimPattyK you should give credit to the person when it is due.
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2100/conradlawyerscream.jpg)
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 01, 2011, 09:46:31 PM
We have already seen as lay persons, many inconsistencies that seemed to get by the attorneys whereby no objections were made or no re-crosses as of yet. We have seen a partner attorney engaged in illegal activities in that he publicly went on t.v. while on an active case and the other side did not motion for a mistrial for contempt. We have seen what appears to be an obvious bias towards the prosecution in that they were allowed to have a “death" picture in plain view during an opening statement which to me would give them an emotional edge from day one. That picture will remain in their minds, especially with the family being so supportive and there everday.
Anyways I found some information of Manslaughter and thought it was kind of interesting.
If it is determined that Conrad was in fact negligent in monitoring and very careless in leaving the drugs in plain sight but cannot be proven 100% that he actually administered it, he will probably be found not guilty. If it starts going too far towards his guilt, I believe a surprise witness is gonna materialize and blow all of this theory out of the water. That’s when the real sh@t will hit the fan and that’s what I’m waiting for.
I know many will think this is totally ridiculous. I expect some repercussions because after all this is the Death Hoax Investigators Forum and we’ve got some real professionals in this house. But let’s agree to disagree . After all, it’s only a movie, but a damn important one. respect/
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/#involuntary (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/#involuntary)
Involuntary Manslaughter
Involuntary manslaughter is in contrast to voluntary manslaughter and occurs where a person kills, but does so without the intent to kill or cause GBH. Apart from the absence of the requisite intent, all other elements of the offence are the same as for murder.
There are two types of involuntary manslaughter, namely:
that caused by the defendant's gross negligence; and
that caused by his unlawful or dangerous act.
Gross Negligence Manslaughter
This is where the death is a result of a grossly negligent (though otherwise lawful) act or omission on the part of the defendant. The law in respect of this has been clarified in the case of R v Adomako (1994) 3 All ER 79 where a four stage test for gross negligence manslaughter known as the Adomako Test was outlined by the House of Lords:
The test involves the following stages:
a) the existence of a duty of care to the deceased;
b) a breach of that duty of care which;
c) causes (or significantly contributes) to the death of the victim; and
d) the breach should be characterised as gross negligence, and therefore a crime.
There is no manslaughter by "Lawrence Recklessness", overruling R v Seymour (1983) 2 AC 493.
The Duty of Care
There is no "general" duty of care owed by one citizen to another (No "good Samaritan rule").
A duty of care will arise from an act of a person where the requirements of foreseeability, proximity, fairness, justice and reasonableness establish such a duty (Donohue v Stevenson (1932) AC 582).
Prosecutors should see Caparo Industries PLC v Dickman (1990) 2 AC 605 for the test if a duty of care existed.
The duty can exist even where the deceased and the defendant were engaged in an unlawful activity together (R v Wacker (2003) 1 Cr App R 329; R v Willoughby (2004) ECWA Crim 3365.
The duty can arise from a contract of employment (R v Pittwood (1902) 19 TLR 37).
In addition there is the case of R (Rowley) v DPP (2003) EWHC Admin 693 where the Administrative Court referred to a fifth test, that 'criminal' involved an element of 'badness' - but note that the Adomako test is objective and the Crown need not prove the defendant's state of mind. The risk must be a serious and obvious risk of death, not merely serious injury: R v Misra and Srivastava [2005] 1 Cr App R 328.
The Breach of the Duty of Care
The ordinary law of negligence applies to these cases, in that those with an established duty of care, must act as a "reasonable person would do in their position". If they fail to do so they will have breached that duty. This is an objective test and will be based upon the defendant's position at the time of the breach.
Therefore, if the defendant has acted within the range of what was generally accepted as being the standard practice (even if it is at the lower end) it will be difficult to describe such behaviour as falling far below the standard of a reasonable person in his position.
An unqualified person is not to be judged at a lower standard than a qualified person. Therefore the lack of skill will not be a defence if the conduct is deemed negligent. If however, the defendant has particular skills and knowledge of a danger that the reasonable person would not have, his actions should be judged in the light of those skills or knowledge. This test is an objective test.
It does not matter that the defendant did not appreciate the risk (the foreseeable risk of death) only that the risk would have been obvious to a reasonable person in the defendant's position. (R v DPP ex parte Jones 2000 CLR 858 and AG ref No: 2 of 1999 3 All ER 182.)
The Grossness of the Breach
It is for a jury to decide whether the defendant's conduct was so bad, in all the circumstances, as to amount to a criminal act or omission. In R v Misra and Srivastava [2005] 1 Cr App R 328, the court agreed with the direction by the judge that the term 'reprehensible' would be apt to describe the nature of the conduct.
Causation
See R v HM Coroner for Inner London, ex parte Douglas-Williams (1999) 1 All ER 344 for a causation test in relation to gross negligence manslaughter
Medical Manslaughter
Medical manslaughter is legally no different from Gross Negligence manslaughter. The term refers to medically qualified individuals who are performing acts within the terms of their duty of care, when the act or omission occurs.
Where a medical individual is appointed to take charge of a person they then take on a duty of care towards them. Simply being a doctor or nurse in a hospital will not necessarily mean there is a duty of care to a specific patient (see section 7 HSWA [ADD LINK] in the legal guidance Corporate Manslaughter).
Please refer to HSE work related deaths protocol http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/oc/100-199/165_9.pdf
Unlawful Act Manslaughter
This is where the killing is the result of:
the defendant's unlawful act (not omission);
where the unlawful act is one which all sober and reasonable people would realise would subject the victim to the risk of some physical harm resulting there from, albeit not serious harm R v Williams and Davis (1992) 2 All ER 183;
whether or not the defendant realised this.
The act need not be directed against a person (e.g. arson) - see R v Willoughby (2005) 1 WLR 1880.
The knowledge attributed to the sober and reasonable person is that which such a person would acquire as an observer of the whole course of the defendant's conduct throughout the unlawful act: R v Watson (1989) 2 All ER 865, R v Dawson (1985) 81 Cr App R 150, R v Carey and others (2006) EWCA Crim 17.
In manslaughter arising from an unlawful and dangerous act, the accused's state of mind is relevant only to establish that the act was committed intentionally and that it was an unlawful act.
Once these points are established the question whether the act was dangerous is to be judged not by the appellant's appreciation but that of the sober and reasonable man and it is impossible to impute the mistaken belief of the defendant that what he was doing was not dangerous: R v Ball 1989 CLR 730.
Cases where Death Results from the Unlawful Supply of Drugs
No "unlawful act" for the purpose of unlawful act manslaughter occurs, where a person only supplies drugs or materials to another, who then in turn administers the drug to himself and dies. This is the case even where a person assists another to take the drug by performing preparatory acts, such as applying a tourniquet or preparing a syringe for injection.
The House of Lords considering the point, stated that the criminal law generally assumed the existence of free will and, subject to certain exceptions, informed adults of sound mind were treated as autonomous beings able to make their own decisions on how to act: R v Kennedy (Simon) (2007) 3 W.L.R. 612 where K supplied the drug to B, who then had a choice, knowing the facts, whether to inject himself or not.
Why are all the adds on this page Michael related? WTF??
http://www.e-lawresources.co.uk/R-v-Kennedy-%5B1999%5D.php (http://www.e-lawresources.co.uk/R-v-Kennedy-%5B1999%5D.php)
R v Kennedy [1999] Crim LR 65 Court of Appeal
The appellant prepared a solution of heroin filled a syringe and handed it to Mr Bosque, a fellow resident at a hostel. Bosque injected himself and died. The appellant was convicted of supplying a class A drug and constructive manslaughter. The appellant appealed contending that there was no direct causal link between the unlawful act of supplying heroin and the death of Bosque.
Held:
Appeal dismissed. Conviction upheld. The unlawful act was Bosque injecting himself, which the appellant assisted. The injection by Bosque was the direct cause of death.
Waller LJ:
".... the injection of the heroin into himself by Bosque [the victim] was itself an unlawful act, and if the appellant assisted in and wilfully encouraged that unlawful conduct, he would himself be acting unlawfully....Whether one talks of novus actus interveniens or simply in terms of causation, the critical question to which the jury must direct its mind, where (as in the instant case) there is an act causative of death performed by in this case the deceased himself, is whether the appellant can be said to be jointly responsible for the carrying out of that act."
NB:
The Court of Appeal distinguished the case of Dalby as the appellant in the present case prepared the solution of heroin whereas in Dalby the deceased prepared the solution.
It was recognised in R v Dias 2002 that there is no unlawful act where a person injects themself with a controlled drug
There was a further appeal to the Court of Appeal heard in 2005 which was dismissed: R v Kennedy 2005
There was then an appeal to the House of Lords in 2007 which was allowed: R v Kennedy 2007
Post by: bec on October 01, 2011, 09:56:13 PM
Court is fake.
Post by: monstertooty on October 01, 2011, 11:18:59 PM
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 01, 2011, 11:25:24 PM
As per TS:
Quote
If there were no clues about the hoax, then the FBI and/or MJ could be accused of entrapment. However, and I’m going to let another cat out of the bag here: the hoax forums are a very strong defense against entrapment. If the FBI or MJ were ever charged of entrapment, all they would need to do is point to the hoax forums as proof that anybody could’ve figured out MJ did not die, if they really wanted to figure it out.
Maybe I'm missing something...but all the research done here for 2 years, and as pointed out by TS, is a much stronger defense against entrapment than a 'fake' seal.
Also, I think most of us can agree that there's a lot of 'evidence' suggesting it is a 'hoax' court (again, just based on the fact that the trial is about a dead man who is actually alive, suggests a 'hoax' element). But let's say the whole thing is fake. How would/did Mike infiltrate all the necessary levels of government in order to pull this off? Did he do it on his own? I find that highly unlikely.
TS dedicated a whole level to FBI involvement...was that to throw us off or because there is some truth to it? If the FBI is involved in helping Mike...would they not be the best 'key' players to help him with the court aspect of the hoax? When it comes to the court aspect, I think the FBI would be in a better position than any bodyguards, lawyers, policemen, EMTs, and even judges...to help MJ with it.
TS:
Quote
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
TS:
Quote
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
BUT if the FBI did, in fact, help Mike with the 'fake' court, then there most likely has to be some sort of 'sting' going on at the same time.
TS:
Quote
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations".
Finally, if you believe TS, then there's no reason to argue or get defensive with each other...cause at the end of the day, this 'adventure' has a little bit of everything:
TS:
Quote
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
Most importantly...it's all for L.O.V.E.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 01, 2011, 11:28:31 PM
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
Very good to know! Thanks for making the call!!!! bearhug
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 02, 2011, 12:26:39 AM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 02, 2011, 12:29:50 AM
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
Very good to know! Thanks for making the call!!!! bearhug
Nicee ! :mrgreen:
This easily proves the whole trial isn't legit.
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on October 02, 2011, 12:37:03 AM
This trial is getting interesting! I can't wait to see what else Michael has in store for us :)
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 02, 2011, 12:54:57 AM
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
very clever, you go girl!!.. thanks for sharing.
Post by: Yambo3003 on October 02, 2011, 01:04:06 AM
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
:lol:
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on October 02, 2011, 01:10:35 AM
Post by: curls on October 02, 2011, 02:21:52 AM
Post by: Grace on October 02, 2011, 03:57:37 AM
I agree that the medical industry/pharmaceutical companies being a target of the sting. I'm going to go beyond shady doctors and I've said this before but I'll say it again, hopefully in a condensed version. Basically it's all about money. One of the major pharm companies, Baxter, was investigated a few years ago for creating the avian flu virus and sending it to 18 third world countries in the form of vaccinations. Purposely infect people living in sub-standard over-crowded conditions so the virus would run wild and kill a lot of innocent people. You have George W telling Americans that millions of Americans will die from Avian flu and you have the media pounding it into your brain as well. Meanwhile, sales of Baxter's tamiflu are flying off the shelves. The same could be said about swine flu, only this time vaccinations were made available almost immediately (those patents were applied for a couple years before the outbreak). I didn't get the shot myself after researching the ingredients, which included mercury and other carcinogens - basically things that can make you very ill down the road and leave you once again dependent on meds/treatments from the pharm companies. "Sickening", right?
Back in the early 1900s, John D Rockefeller hired a guy named Flexnor to go around the country and evaluate all the medical facilities, in what became known as the Flexnor Report. Based on his findings, over half the medical facilities in the U.S. were shut down - basically ALL the ones that were NOT prescribing "modern" medicine, but were prescribing alternative/natural medicines or treatments. Since there was no $ in it for Rockefeller's drug company, they got shut down. Plus, natural/alternative treatments have been shown to actually cure a person, and the pharmaceutical companies can't have that since they need people dependent on their treatments -which don't cure you, just make your condition manageable so you always have to pay for meds and treatments. Just think of their methods to "cure" a person - burn it out (radiation), poison it out or cut it out. Natural remedies, however, are from the Earth and I do believe that God created the Earth so that we have everything we need to help ourselves, naturally.
I'm not saying that all modern medicine is evil but when you have a select few that determine who gets what, and inventing diseases to sell "cures", it's not good and has to be stopped. Then they team up with the other branches in society that they control - governments and media - to spread fear into the population. Don't buy into it. (That was as condensed as I could get, LOL).
I am going to throw this in:
Doc Murray's Defense in rough cut by Reuters:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlcpab_murray-defense-jackson-caused-his-own-death_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlcpab_murray-defense-jackson-caused-his-own-death_news)
Stars & Stripes
Defense = Key
Ed Chernoff:
Quote
"The science in this case.
Pure science.
The evidence in this case.
10 hours
MJ was frustrated because he could not sleep, frustrated because his doctor refused to give him a drug that he preferred, that he wanted.
He did enact, without his doctor's knowledge, without his doctor's permission, against his orders, he did enact and caused his own death.
Friends first
Share about childhood, about his family, about his life, his dreams, his hopes.
They were friends first.
Between 2006 and 2009 Dr. Murray did treat Michael Jackson.
Tested his heart to see if that was ok."
"to treat" may also mean "to invite, to be friendly".
So Doc Murray was friends with MJ according to Ed Chernoff.
Ed Chernoff puts weight on "pure science".
Quote
Fundamental science (or basic science, pure science) is science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) that describes the most basic objects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_%28philosophy%29), forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force), relations between them and laws governing them, such that all other phenomena may be in principle derived from them following the logic of scientific reductionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_reductionism). Physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics) is a typical fundamental science, chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry) is often included. There is a difference between fundamental science and applied science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_science) (or practical science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_science)).[1] Fundamental science, in contrast to applied science, is defined as a fundamental knowledge it develops. The progress of fundamental science is based on well controlled experiments and careful observation. Fundamental science is dependent upon deductions from demonstrated truths, or is studied without regard to practical applicationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_science)
"Defense" may not mean Doc Murray's defense even though this jumps into the eye at first.
As we have seen the "seal" with a "stars and stripes" theme we may have to look into the "U.S. defense".
As we were repeatedly jostled onto 9II, we might have to look into DoD and D. Rumsfeld to see a bigger picture.
D.R. was Chairman of Gilead Services, a biopharmaceutical company, specializing in anti-virus therapeutics.
Quote
In 2006, Gilead completed two acquisitions that allowed the company to branch out from its historical antiviral franchise into the cardiovascular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiovascular) and respiratory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory) therapeutic arenas.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilead_Sciences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilead_Sciences)
This may be only one indicator of where to go from here.
"ANTI-VIRUS THERAPEUTICS"
Virus.
V For Vendetta.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20670.msg359492.html#msg359492 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20670.msg359492.html#msg359492)
Another Hatman at the trial.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 02, 2011, 06:58:01 AM
[...]^^
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2100/conradlawyerscream.jpg)
SimPattyK you should give credit to the person when it is due.
BUT I DO ! I always DO! even if some people still copy my works with no credits at all... :roll:
@Im_convincedmjalive : OPEN your eyes please !
In case you haven't noticed... Why do you think I placed a screenshot from Youtube with the name of the video and the user's name enigma592 right in the MIDDLE of my photo-montage ??
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7281/image68m.jpg)
@Im_convincedmjalive - Just so you know: I feel offended by your insinuation !! I am an honest person ! and i don't like people accusing me of the exact thing I dislike the most: people copying and taking credits for other people's work!
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 10:48:24 AM
[...]^^
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2100/conradlawyerscream.jpg)
SimPattyK you should give credit to the person when it is due.
BUT I DO ! I always DO! even if some people still copy my works with no credits at all... :roll:
@Im_convincedmjalive : OPEN your eyes please !
In case you haven't noticed... Why do you think I placed a screenshot from Youtube with the name of the video and the user's name enigma592 right in the MIDDLE of my photo-montage ??
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7281/image68m.jpg)
@Im_convincedmjalive - Just so you know: I feel offended by your insinuation !! I am an honest person ! and i don't like people accusing me of the exact thing I dislike the most: people copying and taking credits for other people's work!
No need to feel offended. There was no intent to make you feel bad. Obviously I had my eyes open because I found the video based on that small little piece of the youtube users name. That is the thing most people would overlook. I am used to people crediting someone where it is more than obvious. Usually people write it big and loud so there is no mistaking it. That is my observations from the last 19 months. typing/
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 02, 2011, 11:00:05 AM
@MJFAN7 - that's not fair! I was well into hoaxy court mode, then I saw your new sig and I've lost it again !
sorryyy (:
:twisted: :lol: :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 11:06:01 AM
Hi guys, yes I did find out who Murray really is. I went to peoplefinders.com and found out that his real name is Robert Earl Carter and he is married to Blanche Yvette Bonnick Murray.
Now Dr. Blanche Yvette Bonnick Murray has a practice at 2110 east flamingo unit 301. Now this address is very important because its listed on the warrant for Global cardiovascular associates. and it isn't his, it's hers! It's in Nevada the practice and she's a family doctor.
Robert changed his name on his license in February of 2009 to "Conrad Murray" and then he bought properties in Conrad Murray's name. Now when you google 'Conrad Murray Global Associates' you get the address 3121 South Maryland pkwy, not 2110 east flamingo which is on the warrant, and if you google 'Conrad Murray Houston Texas' you get the same address of 3121 South Maryland pkwy, BUT it's listed in Houston, Texas. This medical clinic that he supposedly works at is owned by Dr Davil Armstrong, and his medical licensce was suspeneded in 2006, but he owns the building at 6826 west Montgomery Road, Houston, Texas 77091. There hasn't been patients in there for a while. The phone number of his office is 713-692-1000.
Furthermore "Murray" has one adult daughter named Monique Lee Carter, and Blanche has one adult daughter named Maureen Ray Rose. "Murray" doesn't have any other children according to Peoplefinders.com. Both adult children live with them at that address.
Something else I found out which I think might be important, remember when that car was found at MJ's house and they said Murray was driving it but it belonged to his sister Susan Rush, well I noticed on Peoplefinders that it is listed to Susan Rush who is an associate or roommate of the "Murray's". So I did a google check on her, andl I couldn't figure out if she is related to them or even if she is a real person. The name Susan Rush is a personal circus, like the Circus is called Susan Rush, and the address for whoever owns the circus is 10629 Sandpiper Dr# 14 Houston, Texas 77096. And that address is owned by Robert Earl Carter, yes our "Conrad Murray". So I'm thinking that it's him who owns the circus. The 'Susan Rush circus' comes (performs in) from Magnolia, Texas. So the car that was owned by "Susan Rush" may have been "Conrad Murray's" work car. If you google the name Robert Earl Carter two things come up. First one is that there is a obstrician that is named Robert earl carter from Ca, and the second one is a circus owner, so I'm thinking this dude really does circus things.
Remember though when MJ "died" the police couldn't find Murray so they went to Suzan Rush"s house to find him or to question her about where he was. Well they really went to Robert Earl Carter's House. It was all staged from the getgo.
I'm thinking that this Dr. Blanche Murray is the real Dr. Murray, and that there is no "Conrad Murray" who is a cardiologist. However it makes sense I think, that perhaps this Dr. Blanche Murray is who may have treated Michael's kids in Vegas considering she is a family doctor. This may be the real doctor that may go on tour with Michael eventually. ;) I think her real name might be Blanche Yvette Bonnick Carter.
Ok so the DR isn't a DR....the FBI guy is an actor....the seal is fake.........how much more evidence do you need? /bravo/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 11:17:31 AM
Im_convinced, it is almost statistically impossible that someone who made a professional copy of the California State Seal would add 32 stars as a mistake. This information is readily available on even the most basic Google search. It would have to be missed as an error at 5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting) before it's image became beamed across the world as a representation of the State seal.@bec-That would make sense IF an actual CA state seal that you could touch would have been made. In this day and age of the internet, photoshop and digital imaging there would be no need for:
Court is fake.
Quote
5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting)There is one TV station broadcasting this with feeds to the other stations. It is In Session who is responsible for the image of the CA state seal.
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."@monstertooty-Thank you for this info however it still is the In Session TV show who is responsible for the CA state seal being broadcast.
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
@Anyone who wants to answer-IF this is a hoax court how can you explain the mistake of the CA state seal coming from MJ? Did he somehow convince the In Session media to put up the fake seal? Isn't part of this hoax a vendetta against the media? What is the end goal for having a hoax court?
My belief is someone made the mistake and it was never checked nor is it noticed because as most of us know the media lies, copies and pastes the news, does not verify information, etc. This is even more obvious now that the trial is going. The commentary after the court day is over and even during court is an obvious flaw in the media. There is nothing but blindness from the media. Only a few are reporting on the contradictions. They say it is because of a coverup and that's why the lies.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 02, 2011, 11:22:10 AM
The cartoon below is a depiction of James Buchanan being robbed by men using quotes from his document, Ostend Manifesto.
The date is interesting as well, October 18, 1854. 1+0+1+8+1+8+5+4= 28. 28/2= 14. 14/2= 7. Also 18/2= 9. 1+8= 9. 1-8= 7.
October is also Michael's month this year with the MJ Tribute, CM trial, Cirque du Soleil and Life of an Icon. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Ostend_doctrine.jpg)
Post by: SimPattyK on October 02, 2011, 11:29:32 AM
[...]It's good you admit that you found the video thanks to my specification there!
I found the video based on that small little piece of the youtube users name.
Then I logically conclude that your "credits-observation" was really pointless! and this still doesn't change the way I feel: offended!
PS: If you still want to add some more to this, please use the private message!
Post by: Andrea on October 02, 2011, 11:35:25 AM
.......
Ok so the DR isn't a DR....the FBI guy is an actor....the seal is fake.........how much more evidence do you need? /bravo/
Your whole post is very interesting and I do remember we speculated on Robert Earl Carter a while ago and also that the "real" Dr Murray is a caucasian man who was seen sitting behind Murray at a hearing a long time ago. Something weird with "our" Murray for sure.
Re: what I quoted above - the FBI's involvement in the court (the sting aspect with the hoax court) could definitely make for a fake court with no one getting in trouble after the fact. They could've helped with the minor differences to make this not a legit trial - like the 32 stars instead of 31, the misspelling of Michael's name, birthdate, middle name, etc. I had done a post a while ago to show the FBI's hints about Michael's real middle name and some numerology.
I’ve been thinking about the FBI’s involvement, the possible clues they’ve given and numerology.
As we all know, the FBI intended to release 333 pages on Michael Jackson on 12/21 but was delayed a day.
Here is the link I found when googling “Michael Jackson 333 pages”:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/de ... son_122209 (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/december/jackson_122209)
Here is the image with that article:
(http://www2.fbi.gov/headlines/mj260.jpg)
See how it clearly says “Michael Joe Jackson”. When you look at the actual 333 pages that were released, the always refer to him as “Michael Joe Jackson” or just “Michael Jackson”.
From the above link, there’s another link at the bottom of that page:
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)QuoteMichael Joseph Jackson
Michael Joseph Jackson, a celebrity pop star, was born on August 29, 1958. He died unexpectedly on June 25, 2009 at the age of 50.
Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Mr. Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases. The Bureau also investigated threats made against Mr. Jackson and others by an individual who was later imprisoned for these crimes.
So when the FBI is referring to Michael being dead, they call him “Michael Joseph Jackson”. Very interesting, wouldn’t you say? A deliberate clue like the DC and a subtle reference to an Elvis parallel with the middle name? The Elvis/FBI involvement has been discussed in this thread and many know that his full name is Elvis Aron Presley but on the grave stone it says “Elvis Aaron Presley”.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9WjB-Y99BuofwJItffKwOmhjcT0udv7VSdmq44ata8I4PoVJxpg)
Now let’s have some fun with math and numbers (words I never thought I would ever say! :lol: ).
There were 333 pages intended to be released on 12/21. 1221 being the time of the 911 call and a reference to the EOW date.
The release of these 333 pages were from 7 separate files.
In the first file, 111 pages were withheld. TS told us the importance of 111, being the fundamental number in the hoax. The This Is It movie is 111 minutes. Weird, right?
There’s a total of 675 FBI pages on Michael Jackson – 333 released and 342 withheld.
3+3+3=9
3+4+2=9
6+7+5=18 1+8=9
I was playing around and found this as well:
333 X 7= 2331 (2+3+3+1=9)
333 + 1998 (Dangerous autograph) = 2331
2331 / 111 = 21 (7,7,7)
And 2331-1221= 1110 then - 333= 777
Here’s the FBI’s recap of the 7 files:QuoteThis release consists of seven separate files, as described below:
9A-LA-142276: 1992 to 1993, 196 pages
This file details a Los Angeles field office investigation into extortion threats against Michael Jackson and others in 1992. The subject of this investigation pled guilty and was sentenced to prison in 1993.
A total of 111 pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices. Some information was referred to the U.S. Secret Service.
62D-LA-162715: September 16, 1993 to August 8, 1994, 56 pages
This file involves a Los Angeles field office investigation opened to assist local authorities with a child molestation case in 1993. The case never went to trial.
Ninety-five pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices.
62D-L0-11779: September 2, 1993 to October 22, 1993, 9 pages
This file was opened by the FBI’s legal attaché office in London when it assisted local authorities with a child molestation investigation in 1993.
Thirteen pages were withheld to protect personal privacy and the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence.
95A-HQ-1148159: October 30, 1995 to January 24, 1997, 8 pages
This file details a request made to the FBI to analyze a VHS videotape provided by the U.S. Customs Service as part of a child pornography investigation.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy. Four pages were referred to U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement for a release determination.
62D-LA-236081: January 15, 2004 to April 27, 2004, 41 pages
Our Los Angeles field office opened this file when it was asked by local authorities to provide forensic computer analysis assistance in a child molestation investigation in 2004. The examination of evidence in this case was conducted by the FBI’s Computer Analysis and Response Team (CART). Mr. Jackson was ultimately acquitted of these charges in a California court.
One hundred and twenty-three pages were withheld to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices or to prevent the disclosure of techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions.
305B-LA-239204: September 14, 2004 to December 9, 2004, 5 pages
This Los Angeles field office file was opened in 2004 to investigate child molestation allegations. Due to lack of witness cooperation, the case was closed.
252B-IR-6808: March 1, 2004 to June 29, 2005, 18 pages
This file involves a request made of the FBI's Critical Incident Response Group to provide advice and assistance to local authorities concerning a child molestation investigation in 2004.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy and internal rules and practices.
View each file from here: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)
So why would certain individuals in the FBI be involved with Michael? It "offically" started off because Michael’s life was threatened, then their involvement was with the molestation accusations. It’s entirely possible that the agents researching Michael uncovered a plot where someone(s) was out to destroy Michael. If these bad people couldn’t get close enough to kill him, they would extort him and attempt to destroy his career and reputation. Suddenly it doesn't seem so far-fetched that the FBI (not the whole Bureau but certain individuals) would help Michael with his long-planned hoax - because it helps keep Michael safe and they are able to flush out those people in Michael's life who were a danger to him. The numerology is important because it shows their involvement is deliberate and planned, as is everything else with the hoax.
Sorry for the HUGE numbers, I couldn't make them smaller. Anyways, it shows FBI involvement, unless of course you believe in coincidence. Which I think carries through to the trial and helps the hoax court and all it's players not be in trouble for "tricking" everyone with a fake trial. I do think there has to be a sting involved for that reason, I think there is more than one target and we've speculated endlessly as to who those targets could be - I think it boils down to shady characters in Michael's life and certain people/organizations run by TPTB.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 11:39:59 AM
the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
But of course the "court" is not fake. Just most of the stuff in it. It is being held at the LA County courthouse.
But you have to remember a few small details:
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor. WTF??
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer.... lolol/
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
Photos being shown in court, I have my doubts they are actual photos. Why?Michael had very GOOD taste in just about everything he bought.
<img src="http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/michael-jackson-bedroom-photos.jpg">
This bedroom does not tell me someone IMPORTANT slept there...sorry. Mis matched furniture. Tv just sitting on a table?
And does it resemble the following article?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5929565/Michael-Jackson-slept-with-child-sized-porcelain-doll-in-dress.html
<b>The policeman told the newspaper: “The temperature upstairs was stiflingly hot, with gas fireplaces and the heating system on high because Jackson always complained of feeling cold.
“The singer’s bedroom was a mess, with items seemingly thrown about and some 20 handwritten notes stuck on the walls. A porcelain girl doll wearing a dress was found on top of the covers of the bed where he slept.”</b>
Where did the doll go? What notes? The bedroom doesn't look messy to me.
Gas fireplace? Really? The one shown in this photo is NOT a gas fireplace, you don't need a poker for a gas fireplace...it's a LOG fireplace. WTF??
This posted by TMZ this morning
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg">
Conrad Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, is a man of dramatic expressions.
Check out the pics from the last few days. Sometimes, non-verbal communications tell a good story.
TMZ has been dropping hints the last 2 years...
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 11:50:04 AM
Post by: bec on October 02, 2011, 11:50:40 AM
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 02, 2011, 11:55:19 AM
Numerology is a HUGE clue! The best proof ever!
I'll say it over and over... until all those who refuse to admit it, will finally SEE the truth.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 02, 2011, 12:05:04 PM
OT: has anyone bought Jermaine's recent book? I think Im going to buy it today...curious if he's dropped any clues in it :)
You know, there was an interesting thing ol' Jermaine said in his book. When he got to the hospital and saw Michael laying dead on the gurney, Jermaine had noticed that MJ had "shrunken" in size. Its funny also how most of us here immediately pointed out how "shrunken" Michael's legs look in the gurney pic.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 12:12:23 PM
@Im_convinced, even a digital image has to be created by someone. You accept that this is simply a mistake? What original did this careless image creator copy from? How could they be so inept? How could their superior be so inept? How could 32 stars on an official state seal be missed by the entire chain of command responsible for providing this image on an "official" court TV broadcast?bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.
Don't make this personal and accuse me of grasping at straws with my arguement being weak. I am only stating my case, no personal feelings here just common sense.
Post by: paula-c on October 02, 2011, 12:13:09 PM
the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
This Court is in the catalogue of the Department of Justice press and offered in the California Film Commission as a filming set. Hall of Justice
http://ca.reel-scout.com/loc_detail.aspx?id=718&g=&cid=50 (http://ca.reel-scout.com/loc_detail.aspx?id=718&g=&cid=50)
I am not mistaken this is the Court?
Post by: bec on October 02, 2011, 12:17:06 PM
Quote
What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory.
Oh come on.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 02, 2011, 12:24:02 PM
[...]^^ Regarding this photo, I don't know if this video has already been posted, but it provides an interesting analysis ;)
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
[...]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ayEwD2Jmek&feature=share[/youtube]
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 12:33:36 PM
Oh and Criss Angel......(sigh)....(swoon) LOL
Wasn't Criss Angel helping Michael Jackson with his TII illusion?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 01:03:23 PM
http://www.vegasdeluxe.com/blogs/luxe-life/2009/apr/02/michael-jackson-plans-attend-criss-angels-embeliev/
http://www.vegasdeluxe.com/blogs/luxe-life/2009/may/11/criss-angel-denies-london-reports-hes-michael-jack/
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=101280981715
this one is interesting:
http://magicgizmo.com/home/General/michael-jackson-teams-up-with-criss-angel-dumps-copperfield.html
Michael Jackson is getting ready for his London residency and apparently has lots of theatrics planned including illusions. Jackson was in talks with David Copperfield who apparently wanted $1 million per show, but this was too much for Jackson's pocketbook. It is then reported that Jackson had hired Criss Angel to perform with him in London. Now it is former"Saved by the Bell" actor and magcian, Ed Alonzo who is teaming up with Jackson.
Alonzo had helped<u> Britney Spears put some "magic" into her Circus album tour.</u> "I met with Michael Jackson a couple of days ago and am now officially creating magic and illusions for his concert," says Alonzo.
A source said that "Michael wants to use lots of illusions to ensure his shows are as explosive and entertaining as possible." Other reports include rumored performances by Britney Spears and also live animals in the performance. The 50 performance show by Jackson is to begin in July.
Post by: Datroot on October 02, 2011, 01:14:40 PM
OT: has anyone bought Jermaine's recent book? I think Im going to buy it today...curious if he's dropped any clues in it :)
I've read it all and he is questioning loads of stuff. I didn't see any specific clues in it though.
Post by: Elsa on October 02, 2011, 01:18:25 PM
Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys a lot of "proof"imho.........'cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!
i'm sorry guys!
Time will bear me out... OMG!
poor TS! :'( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
minuminu and keyboardwizz, if you watch Ben Evanstad's video you can see the call screen in the Fire truck which has the information for the incoming call.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-neverland-10974241 (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michael-jackson-ambulance-neverland-10974241)
This next link is to a timeline which states the 911 call was made at 12:21. What was the source? ABC News has Ben's video on its site so I guess the time could have been checked with the call screen in Ben's Video. This means that even if the emergency call and Ben's video were staged, the time of 12:21 is the correct 'hoax' time for the 911 call.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/MichaelJackson/michael-jackson-final-days-timeline-year-death-king/story?id=10974394&page=4 (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/MichaelJackson/michael-jackson-final-days-timeline-year-death-king/story?id=10974394&page=4)
The Emergency Medical Service Report states 'Time of Alarm' as 12:22 because that's when the station received the call out.
In the Search Warrant, the investigation states that the ambulance 'responded' to the emergency call at approximately 12:22 - not that the call to 911 was made at 12:22.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/24/murray.search.warrant.affadavits.pdf (http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/24/murray.search.warrant.affadavits.pdf)
Exhibit 43 for the Prosecution has 1221 written on the page - its circled. I'm sure if you're really interested, you can find a link to that somewhere.
Your statements about no return are very direct, without any uncertainty or acknowledgment that this is just your opinion. How can you be so sure - sure enough to confront people during an emotional trial to tell them that they are wrong?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 01:19:02 PM
has David Blaine's comment been discussed? WTF??
Post by: Grace on October 02, 2011, 01:21:38 PM
This posted by TMZ this morning
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg)
Conrad Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, is a man of dramatic expressions.
Check out the pics from the last few days. Sometimes, non-verbal communications tell a good story.
TMZ has been dropping hints the last 2 years...
Ed Chernoff walks with his fingers in his face.
Quote
Thinking “where the heck is optical illusion here (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/10/ultimate-horses-illusion.html)“, ayeh? It’s right in front of you (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/03/impossible-cube-illusion.html) actually! If you observe this person’s face (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/12/reveresed-face-illusion.html) from up close, you’ll notice it has no eyes (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/12/double-dangerfield-illusion.html), nose nor mouth. How can this be, when it looks perfectly normal (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/09/margaret-thatcher-illusion.html) (apart from it being just a cartoon (http://www.moillusions.com/2007/02/panda-cartoon-illusion.html)). The answer is beneath the surface – the author, obviously talented son of a gun, managed to fool us by making multiple meaning illusion (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/05/multiple-meanings-category.html). The fingers are making illusion (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/09/tree-with-attitude.html) of a face! Simple, right? But how many of you would notice (http://www.moillusions.com/2006/11/notice-pointy-white-hats-in-back.html) this immediately, if I hadn’t written about it? Be honest…http://www.moillusions.com/2007/11/finger-face-illusion.html (http://www.moillusions.com/2007/11/finger-face-illusion.html)
(http://www.moillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/2.bp.blogspot.com/_cxmptAPYR-s/Ry-Ph7pR9wI/AAAAAAAABj8/7ybfamW-GYc/s400/new9858.gif)
Still I believe the 32 stars on the Cali seal point to the U.S. flag because that one has 32 stars for sure. There is a smal flag with stripes only in the plant on the court reporter's desk, too.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 02, 2011, 01:45:38 PM
Im_convinced, it is almost statistically impossible that someone who made a professional copy of the California State Seal would add 32 stars as a mistake. This information is readily available on even the most basic Google search. It would have to be missed as an error at 5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting) before it's image became beamed across the world as a representation of the State seal.@bec-That would make sense IF an actual CA state seal that you could touch would have been made. In this day and age of the internet, photoshop and digital imaging there would be no need for:
Court is fake.Quote5 quality control check points (draft, model, mold, finished product, mounting)There is one TV station broadcasting this with feeds to the other stations. It is In Session who is responsible for the image of the CA state seal.I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."@monstertooty-Thank you for this info however it still is the In Session TV show who is responsible for the CA state seal being broadcast.
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
@Anyone who wants to answer-IF this is a hoax court how can you explain the mistake of the CA state seal coming from MJ? Did he somehow convince the In Session media to put up the fake seal? Isn't part of this hoax a vendetta against the media? What is the end goal for having a hoax court?
My belief is someone made the mistake and it was never checked nor is it noticed because as most of us know the media lies, copies and pastes the news, does not verify information, etc. This is even more obvious now that the trial is going. The commentary after the court day is over and even during court is an obvious flaw in the media. There is nothing but blindness from the media. Only a few are reporting on the contradictions. They say it is because of a coverup and that's why the lies.
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner? And do you think it is likely that IF the seal is a photoshop by insession (if they are the ones providing the image), that they made a new photoshopped image of the seal just for this trial? And where is the source that shows us who this seal provides?
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 01:49:26 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4dLvzhkk2Q[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxgF-V5DcJs[/youtube]
What does ER Dr. Richelle Cooper say about the bed MJ is on?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEcty9KunQU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=701EXbmG6F8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXdNl4-N3ak[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtnmL5lQ5fw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4yURamePCw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJuCr3PdpLo[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEsJg_SjLbg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Wui7Moi4k[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhXsUugBBAU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmHXgy3YD-c[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdoe9Sg3OaY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4cEmlFLOtM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZydusBHvLc8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up0S4Zwx5xE[/youtube] /judge/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 02, 2011, 01:54:16 PM
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death.
In the ambulance pic the eyes are closed. What the paramedics and Dr. Cooper say contradict the ambulance picture, so what can this mean?
1. Ben simply faked the ambulance pic and found some fools to buy it --> MJ is dead or
2.The paramedics and Dr. Cooper are in the hoax --> MJ is alive BUT I find it hard to believe these people are in the hoax after listening their testimonies. They just don't seem to act. They are real people and not actors. IMO they just tell what they saw. So the next option is
3. A corpse was used instead of MJ --> MJ is alive BUT I have problems with this too because WHO can that person be and WHY one paramedic said he recognized MJ if it wasn't MJ? It is true the others haven't recognized MJ, so maybe only the one who recognized him is in the hoax?
One of the paramedics also stated that the patient looked like a person who suffered of a chronic illness - so if he wasn't mistaken, this could be a proof it really wasn't MJ but a corpse.
So once again, I don't know what to believe.
So far the paramedics contradicted each other about how they found MJ when they arrived (on the floor/bed/half on the floor half on the bed) and about his appearance - one recognized MJ, the other didn't.
They all seem to agree he was dead when they arrived and Dr. Cooper also said he was dead when they arrived at UCLA.
In the most optimistic scenario I would say a corpse was used.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 02, 2011, 01:57:29 PM
And thanks for the videos, I missed Friday's testimonies.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 02:03:28 PM
Michael could possibly be Conrad Murray. We already know that "Conrad Murray" is not the doctor's real name going by the search warrants.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&cp=27&gs_id=30&xhr=t&q=michael+jackson+and+conrad+murray&qe=bWljaGFlbCBqYWNrc29uIGFuZCBjb25yYWQg&qesig=1lddCsdpzoTw-an28VbQdw&pkc=AFgZ2tlIt0UEcQTDNrS6sTyqN-1UR5RJx7lX79S2YFQba0FbFcIcA6h12tUTybQOpZPsH_PVy6mV9eFr6B482yqW6svdlg2pOA&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=645&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
There are NO photos of "Conrad" and "Michael" together. None, zero...
I simply don't know. We never saw any pics of Conrad Murray until after MJ was "dead". And the hospital surveillance looked fake as well. <---maybe I'm going CRAZY
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 02:05:48 PM
Quote
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner? And do you think it is likely that IF the seal is a photoshop by insession (if they are the ones providing the image), that they made a new photoshopped image of the seal just for this trial? And where is the source that shows us who this seal provides?@Souza-I can not answer the part about the judge because I didn't see that part. If you could tell me when he said that maybe I can find a youtube video so I can watch it and then answer. I can't say they made a new CA state seal just for this trial. They could of had this CA state seal all along for every trial they report on in CA. My use of the word photoshop is only to say it is a digital image.
The proof of who is the one and only TV station/camera inside the courtroom is pages back. I already posted on that. If In Session formerly Court TV is streaming live it would make sense that they are responsible for the CA state seal when their camera is off.
Nobody has answered this question: IF this is a HOAX court by MJ and his crew, how did they convince a MEDIA company to use a FAKE CA seal to help promote his hoax?
Post by: BeTheChange on October 02, 2011, 02:25:29 PM
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner?
As for this part of the question...I can say that what the judge did by pointing out the difference between exhibit 31 and 32 is not only perfectly normal for any judge to do...but it's also important for a judge to address the jury whenever there is a video/audio exhibit followed by a transcript. A jury will always be given these instructions (at least every court case I've watched, including most recently the Anthony trial)...a jury will be told to use the transcript as a guide but that if they hear something different, they are to use their own judgement as to what was said.
There's a lot of things I find to be 'weird' or 'funny' about Judge Pastor...but his instructions to the jury about exhibit 31 & 32 (and then again with a later exhibit) is definitely not one of them.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I really wish TS would chime in :?
Post by: Sarahli on October 02, 2011, 02:33:28 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVRDsMwqe5Y&feature=related[/youtube]
Post by: BeTheChange on October 02, 2011, 02:59:06 PM
II - MID-TRIAL INSTRUCTIONS
7.15 Audio Tape Recordings and Transcripts
(Last revised February 2004)
[1] You are about to hear a tape recording of (describe briefly nature of recording(s)). Please listen to it very carefully.
[2] Each of you has a transcript of the tape. The transcript is just an aid to help you follow the recording as it is played. The transcript is not evidence. Only the tape itself is evidence.
[3] If what you read on the transcript differs from what you hear on the tape, you are to go by what you hear for yourself, and not what you read in the transcript. If the speakers you hear are different from those identified in the transcript, it is for you to decide who was speaking and what was said. You decide this from what you hear on the recording and any other evidence given about the identity of the speakers.
[4] The tape will be available to you in the jury room, where you may listen to it if you need to. It is up to you to decide whether or how often you want to listen to it, or any part of it again. You may listen to it as many times as you wish to help you determine who is speaking and what s/he is saying.
http://www.courts.ns.ca/general/resource_docs/jury_instr_model_april04.pdf (http://www.courts.ns.ca/general/resource_docs/jury_instr_model_april04.pdf)
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 02, 2011, 03:08:30 PM
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner?
As for this part of the question...I can say that what the judge did by pointing out the difference between exhibit 31 and 32 is not only perfectly normal for any judge to do...but it's also important for a judge to address the jury whenever there is a video/audio exhibit followed by a transcript. A jury will always be given these instructions (at least every court case I've watched, including most recently the Anthony trial)...a jury will be told to use the transcript as a guide but that if they hear something different, they are to use their own judgement as to what was said.
There's a lot of things I find to be 'weird' or 'funny' about Judge Pastor...but his instructions to the jury about exhibit 31 & 32 (and then again with a later exhibit) is definitely not one of them.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I really wish TS would chime in :?
I know that it is normal for a judge to explain, but he mentioned it not once, not twice, but at least 5 or 6 times with these specific exhibits. If he would just have mentioned the numbers once or twice, I wouldn't have bothered, but it definitely stood out for me and many others in chat at the same moment.
@Imconvinced: FBI? ;)
Although this courtcase might not be against the DA or judge IMO, does not mean it's not important for any sting being played out in the background. Plus it is an addition to all the other clearly false stuff to ensure they can't be accused of entrapment. Just to be clear again: I DO think there is a sting, just not against the judge or the DA as you think.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 03:37:46 PM
pariisjaxn Pαris Jαcksoη
#TheyNeedToBringBack Bad; Every One Says Swag Now
Another Bad reference.....
also, in regards to the seal:
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
Post by: BeTheChange on October 02, 2011, 03:46:24 PM
I know that it is normal for a judge to explain, but he mentioned it not once, not twice, but at least 5 or 6 times with these specific exhibits. If he would just have mentioned the numbers once or twice, I wouldn't have bothered, but it definitely stood out for me and many others in chat at the same moment.
Ah...I see what you're saying now Souza. It's interesting how we all interpret things in different ways. I didn't find it odd at all that he mentioned it a few times...I figured he was filling 'dead space'...since it took the prosecution 10 years to pass out the transcripts to the jury.
I replayed it again (thanks for posting it Sarahli)...and I still feel the same.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 03:47:37 PM
I called the office of the California Secretary of State. archive division. I told them my son wanted to do a project on the seal he was seeing on the "show" I have been watching :lol: I asked the gentleman to confirm its accuracy because every other picture of the seal I pulled up online had 31 stars and this one has 32. He then stated "well we want your son to get a good grade so accuracy is important." He put me on hold for about a minute which was good because I had a giggle fit. :mrgreen: After giving me an explanation of what the stars represented(31st state), he said "the seal with 32 stars is NOT official...THEY must have made a mistake when THEY made it for TV." "Tell your son to put 31 stars on the seal and he'll be accurate."
I feel that anytime we doubt even the smallest of details we should make the extra effort to verify the information. This opinion applies not only to Michael's hoax but that of any other potential BS we happen to run across. L.O.V.E U ALL!
moonwalk_/
Heyyyy monstertooty. It's good to see you posting on the forum too. Welcome. bearhug And thank you for making this call. /bravo/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 03:49:01 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23065916@N04/3234775431/
<img src="http://www.frontiernet.net/~ldier/court_10.jpg">
<img src="http://www.illuminationarts.com/wla_court_web.jpg">
So what I can gather is, the seal is proudly displayed on the wall in EVERY court room...if the media is zooming in on an actual "seal" displayed in the court room, then in fact the seal is faked.
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 04:12:52 PM
bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Post by: paula-c on October 02, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Quote
Quote from: Heartsong on October 02, 2011, 05:56:19 AM
Quote from: voiceforthesilent on October 02, 2011, 03:37:11 AM
Quote from: TouchedByAnAngel on October 01, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Hi Everybody! So this trial is pretty interesting isn't it? For those that heard the alarm go off on Friday Sep. 30th, I heard it too. In fact just seconds after I started hearing the alarm during the trial I decided to make a tweet about it.
At the time I was just making a light-hearted tweet about the alarm to lighten the moment. Later when trial was over and I had more time to pay attention to Twitter, I noticed that somebody was claiming that the alarm had gone off at 2:26 pm California time, which is the time Michael was "officially declared dead". I went back to my tweet and checked the time I had sent it. It said I had sent it 3 hours earlier, and when I put my mouse over the "3 hours ago" link the actual time popped up. I'm in Texas which is two hours later than California time, so my 4:27 pm was 2:27 pm California time. Like I said, I heard the alarm go off, and after I laughed for a few seconds, I went and tweeted my message about Michael being a Joker. So, the alarm did go off at 2:26 California time!
This just confirms for me even more that Michael is sending us clues to Keep The Faith.
http://twitter.com/#!/TouchedByAngelM/status/119886098578145280
Love and Light to you all!
Thank you for the confirmation that the time on my computer is correct. I did post on Twitter too asking if anyone else noticed the time and I received a couple of confirmations saying the time was correct. Unless we have MJ's ghost in the house making his presence known that was a deliberate wake up call.
I loved reading what everyone else observed. I have noticed quite a few paralells to 2003-2005 events but I want to write it all down to see if it makes sense.
Blessings!
And did you hear Judge Pastor explanation as to why the alarm went off? "A child set it off". So there are children playing unsupervised in the courthouse during this trial freely touching whatever they want? Or maybe the judge meant an adult behaving like a child...
I'm still excited about this alarm going off at such a memorable time. I searched on Youtube and found the video so all can hear this if they missed it. Actually this YT account has all the testimony so far and it is very good quality, no commercial interruptions. I recommend that all bookmark this channel and/or subscribe because if he continues to upload all the testimony this will be a valuable resource. Also great for those that can't watch live because of timezone issues, work, etc.
So here is the video where you can hear the alarm going off in court. The alarm starts at 12:48 in video. I don't know if this is a standard fire alarm bell sequence, but it rings 7 times quickly, pauses for a second then rings 4 times quickly. It rings this combination of 7 + 4 a total of 4 times. At 14:45 in the video the judge explains that it was an accidental pull by a child on another floor.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ARKoqrLF70&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Well dang! Previewing my post as I create it, I've noticed that the person this video belongs to doesn't allow embedding. So you will have to click the video and let it open a new YT video window to watch. While you are there, remember to subscribe!
Does anybody remember Kenny Ortega saying on Day 1 of testimony that Michael was like a lost boy? This made me think of Peter Pan and just a minute after I had tweeted about MJ being a Joker and pulling the alarm, I also tweeted this
Well I think with all the conflicting testimony so far and the evidence full of mistakes, people really need to ask themselves "Is this real or a HOAX?" I've been on the hoax train for over 2 years and this trial sure hasn't changed my opinion, only strengthened it!
One last thing before I sign off...that "death bed" photo of MJ is crazy. I saved and zoomed in the original black/white photo that TMZ released on day 1 of the trial. (I know a clearer color image has been released since then) Anyway, I still say the arm looks fake, it's just too long. The band towards the wrist is supposedly the hospital armband (it's wider than any I've ever seen) and of course the legs can't be seen but it looks like there isn't enough room left on the bed for his long legs. Lastly I noticed that there appears to be a pyramid shape above his arm/elbow where the hospital gown is at. WTF is that about?
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/cjcntx/1MJsdeathbed.jpg)
Quote
Quote from: Grace on October 02, 2011, 03:01:50 PM
Hahahaha, I missed the alarm - txs for posting. The faces are hilarious.
Sounds like an alarm clock, LOL, anybody wake-up, please? All sitting in the dark...
Or was it end of class?
Offtopic, but not completely:
I had a conversation with my colleague, yesterday, (male, married, 2 kids, doesn't care about anything about Michael except that yes, he did a few good songs. He comes up pretty tough at times trying to ridicule me - despite, despite he has noticed some serious wrong stuff is going on in the world, so we sometimes still find a level to talk, LOL).
I told him about the stuffed toys in court and the photo with the missing legs. We continued towards 9II and that a lie just needs to be big enough to be believed because people would say "I saw it with my own eyes" (through a TV channel) and they would be 100% sure they saw the truth.
If anything proves that a lie just needs to be big enough to be believed, it is Michael's disappearance and this trial.
Kick off a snowball with a few and the rest will fall into desired place.
If Michael can do it, anybody can do it.
Financial gamblers and governments included.
The longer this lie runs uncovered despite all obvious inconsistencies, the more this proves how manipulated we are.
Another realization:
the more others tell us and overwhelm us with their blabla, the less questions we are asking.
It is a tactic to fill us up and choke our mind.
End of offtopic. Gonna go watch the alarm again LOL
In this video, the alarm goes off when exhibit 22 is about to be presented.
The alarm in the video goes off in this sequence:
7 / 4 pause
7 / 4 pause
7 / 4 pause
7 / 4
which adds up (for those counting) to
22
4*11
------
66
There is more.
Exhibit 22 on google:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:WwPnOCKv89oJ:ussliberty.org/report/exhibit%25252022.pdf+exhibit+22&hl=en&gl=de&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjs45s_vauPnWRtmbUcTJe0r1E_Q5qfl5R-5pY7EXD3g7nKR5WpzTVlXCXS6lBpDr-Ycbb7zYErZIg7SvbcXtztWeWFRtEWVKuZRAkcmEfNxvrQqNOM1ZH5_6zWjjYTo51iv_in&sig=AHIEtbS7xYczci9Ft6E2keXHGSE9E_l5lA
It is about government exchange US - Israel on the Israelian attack on U.S.S. Liberty.
We had cover-ups before 9II.
Quote
On June 8, 1967 on a hot clear afternoon, Israeli air forces, combined later with naval forces, initiated an attack on an American intelligence vessel -- the USS Liberty.[1] The air-sea attack took 34 lives and injured 171 crewmen.[2] The Israeli government explained the attack was an error due to misidentification of the ship. The American government has officially accepted the Israeli apology, yet continues to conceal many facts of the incident from the American public. There was a disparity between the official history of this event and the accounts of the surviving crewmen of the Liberty. The disparity forces a more comprehensive explanation of the events. Investigation of the deliberateness of the attack and the response of the United States government, as well as the cultural and political context of the middle to late 1960s, is revealing. This factual and contextual evidence demonstrates that the attack was in fact intentional and subsequently covered-up by the United States government.
http://www.ussliberty.org/macdonald.htm
Quote
Richard A. Senneff said MJ was already dead when he arrived at the scene - but they tried to resuscitate him for 47 minutes without success ....
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.0.html
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 02, 2011, 04:21:48 PM
the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
But of course the "court" is not fake. Just most of the stuff in it. It is being held at the LA County courthouse.
But you have to remember a few small details:
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor. WTF??
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer.... lolol/
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.the court isnt fake, its been confirm by pearl jr yesterday
But of course the "court" is not fake. Just most of the stuff in it. It is being held at the LA County courthouse.
But you have to remember a few small details:
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor. WTF??
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer.... lolol/
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
Photos being shown in court, I have my doubts they are actual photos. Why?Michael had very GOOD taste in just about everything he bought.
<img src="http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/michael-jackson-bedroom-photos.jpg (http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/michael-jackson-bedroom-photos.jpg)">
This bedroom does not tell me someone IMPORTANT slept there...sorry. Mis matched furniture. Tv just sitting on a table?
And does it resemble the following article?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5929565/Michael-Jackson-slept-with-child-sized-porcelain-doll-in-dress.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5929565/Michael-Jackson-slept-with-child-sized-porcelain-doll-in-dress.html)
<b>The policeman told the newspaper: “The temperature upstairs was stiflingly hot, with gas fireplaces and the heating system on high because Jackson always complained of feeling cold.
“The singer’s bedroom was a mess, with items seemingly thrown about and some 20 handwritten notes stuck on the walls. A porcelain girl doll wearing a dress was found on top of the covers of the bed where he slept.”</b>
Where did the doll go? What notes? The bedroom doesn't look messy to me.
Gas fireplace? Really? The one shown in this photo is NOT a gas fireplace, you don't need a poker for a gas fireplace...it's a LOG fireplace. WTF??
This posted by TMZ this morning
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/09/30/0930-ed-chernoff-photo-launch-v4.jpg)">
Conrad Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, is a man of dramatic expressions.
Check out the pics from the last few days. Sometimes, non-verbal communications tell a good story.
TMZ has been dropping hints the last 2 years...
I again, i never said the seal isnt fake. i know its fake, and everything else. You didnt have tell me the whole story, im following the case too, i already these things. The point im trying to make is that the COURT ISNT FAKE.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 02, 2011, 04:22:09 PM
tweet from paris 15 mins ago
pariisjaxn Pαris Jαcksoη
#TheyNeedToBringBack Bad; Every One Says Swag Now
Another Bad reference.....
also, in regards to the seal:
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 02, 2011, 04:30:09 PM
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death.
In the ambulance pic the eyes are closed. What the paramedics and Dr. Cooper say contradict the ambulance picture, so what can this mean?
1. Ben simply faked the ambulance pic and found some fools to buy it --> MJ is dead or
2.The paramedics and Dr. Cooper are in the hoax --> MJ is alive BUT I find it hard to believe these people are in the hoax after listening their testimonies. They just don't seem to act. They are real people and not actors. IMO they just tell what they saw. So the next option is
But if they are in service to the FBI, that changes everything. Do not you think?
By the way, someone said on twitter that Murray left the court in an official car Of U.S.. Can anyone confirm this?
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on October 02, 2011, 04:48:12 PM
As far as I heard well - all of the paramedics estified Michael had his eyes wide open, fixed in the ceiling or something. I also remember Jermaine's statement that he personally closed Michael's eyes in the hospital. Yet in the ambulance photo and on this gurney we can see MJ with his eyes closed... Please, correct me if i am mixing something... suspicious//
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 04:59:12 PM
I just wanted to ask you guys about the "eyes-question". Don't know if it was discussed.
As far as I heard well - all of the paramedics estified Michael had his eyes wide open, fixed in the ceiling or something. I also remember Jermaine's statement that he personally closed Michael's eyes in the hospital. Yet in the ambulance photo and on this gurney we can see MJ with his eyes closed... Please, correct me if i am mixing something... suspicious//
You're correct. Contradiction everywhere. ;)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 05:01:57 PM
<img src="http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/314922_255656827809162_100000945392083_666933_172935758_n.jpg">
Possibly the same "gurny" photo?
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 05:56:25 PM
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/413548335.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1317596872&Signature=D088kZoxNzQoOaYwOLu%2F6a7U44E%3D)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 06:50:43 PM
PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 02, 2011, 06:58:55 PM
ok California's seals:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23065916@N04/3234775431/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23065916@N04/3234775431/)
<img src="http://www.frontiernet.net/~ldier/court_10.jpg (http://www.frontiernet.net/~ldier/court_10.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.illuminationarts.com/wla_court_web.jpg (http://www.illuminationarts.com/wla_court_web.jpg)">
So what I can gather is, the seal is proudly displayed on the wall in EVERY court room...if the media is zooming in on an actual "seal" displayed in the court room, then in fact the seal is faked.
Now this is a court room..
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 02, 2011, 07:03:22 PM
I just wanted to ask you guys about the "eyes-question". Don't know if it was discussed.
As far as I heard well - all of the paramedics estified Michael had his eyes wide open, fixed in the ceiling or something. I also remember Jermaine's statement that he personally closed Michael's eyes in the hospital. Yet in the ambulance photo and on this gurney we can see MJ with his eyes closed... Please, correct me if i am mixing something... suspicious//
Jermaine said in his book, he opened his eye .. His eyes where shut. In the house his eyes were wide opened.
Post by: looking4truth on October 02, 2011, 07:17:31 PM
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry.
EXACTLY YES! That's what I think also. Especially in Hollywood, docs are spreading celebrities all these drugs like they are candy. So, I definitely believe the sting is against the medical industry.
As the wonderful Teddy Riley would say, "Yup Yup"
Great post! And I agree about the medical industry being a possible target. It's one that I'm sure would be very personal to Mike (loss of friends, for example, James Brown) due to negligence/corruption of doctors, not to mention how the focus of the medical community has become increasingly centered on money/greed, rather than on "doing no harm"--especially in California. There's been report after report about how, in North America, at least...drug addiction has skyrocketed with prescription drugs as the drugs of choice (rather than 'street' and/or illegal drugs). The biggest difference, though, is that the ONLY way to get addicted to prescription drugs (even if purchased on the street)...is through a doctor's prescription. The 'spotlight' shines brighter on California due to the glitter of Hollywood...but it is just a reflection of what is taking place across the country.
I can definitely see MJ, with the help of the FBI, going after the medical industry (from pharmaceutical companies--that have infiltrated government, to doctors, to pharmacies and everything inbetween).
With L.O.V.E. always.
Thanks for your insight. And the mentioning of James Brown made me think of a rumor about Conrad Murray being his doctor at one point. Does anyone know at what point James Brown was supposedly under Dr. Murray's care? If it was around or even at the time of Brown's death, then perhaps, Michael wants to bring justice for not only himself but Mr. Brown as well.
I agree that the medical industry/pharmaceutical companies being a target of the sting. I'm going to go beyond shady doctors and I've said this before but I'll say it again, hopefully in a condensed version. Basically it's all about money. One of the major pharm companies, Baxter, was investigated a few years ago for creating the avian flu virus and sending it to 18 third world countries in the form of vaccinations. Purposely infect people living in sub-standard over-crowded conditions so the virus would run wild and kill a lot of innocent people. You have George W telling Americans that millions of Americans will die from Avian flu and you have the media pounding it into your brain as well. Meanwhile, sales of Baxter's tamiflu are flying off the shelves. The same could be said about swine flu, only this time vaccinations were made available almost immediately (those patents were applied for a couple years before the outbreak). I didn't get the shot myself after researching the ingredients, which included mercury and other carcinogens - basically things that can make you very ill down the road and leave you once again dependent on meds/treatments from the pharm companies. "Sickening", right?
Back in the early 1900s, John D Rockefeller hired a guy named Flexnor to go around the country and evaluate all the medical facilities, in what became known as the Flexnor Report. Based on his findings, over half the medical facilities in the U.S. were shut down - basically ALL the ones that were NOT prescribing "modern" medicine, but were prescribing alternative/natural medicines or treatments. Since there was no $ in it for Rockefeller's drug company, they got shut down. Plus, natural/alternative treatments have been shown to actually cure a person, and the pharmaceutical companies can't have that since they need people dependent on their treatments -which don't cure you, just make your condition manageable so you always have to pay for meds and treatments. Just think of their methods to "cure" a person - burn it out (radiation), poison it out or cut it out. Natural remedies, however, are from the Earth and I do believe that God created the Earth so that we have everything we need to help ourselves, naturally.
I'm not saying that all modern medicine is evil but when you have a select few that determine who gets what, and inventing diseases to sell "cures", it's not good and has to be stopped. Then they team up with the other branches in society that they control - governments and media - to spread fear into the population. Don't buy into it. (That was as condensed as I could get, LOL).
Andrea, you bring up a lot of great points and I hope these things will get exposed to the masses through this adventure but I am not sure what MJ or anyone involved has in mind with this adventure so I guess I'll just keep watching.
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 07:54:00 PM
PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 08:00:34 PM
Last night, I was thinking over the audio of supposedly Michael talking about wanting to make the biggest children's hospital in the world or something to that effect. And I wonder if the sting operation (if there is a sting) is somehow directed to the medical industry.
EXACTLY YES! That's what I think also. Especially in Hollywood, docs are spreading celebrities all these drugs like they are candy. So, I definitely believe the sting is against the medical industry.
As the wonderful Teddy Riley would say, "Yup Yup"
Teddy says YEP YEP. :mrgreen: geek/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 08:17:52 PM
PureLove-What is the DA banner? DA stands for Distric Attorney which is the prosecutor. I did not say coincidence at all. The name spelled wrong is a blatant in your face mistake on purpose. The defense made the wrong name on the board they presented in court. I was explaining the EMT report could be a simple mistake that happens alot more than it does not. I was saying the middle name Joe vs Joseph is what my answer to bec was about.PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
Keep your good luck to yourself k.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
Post by: bec on October 02, 2011, 08:27:46 PM
This is a movie. Court is a MJJ production. The seal is being broadcasted by MJJ's cameras. The media companies are unaware of this. They believe they are broadcasting the CourtTV live stream when in fact it is MJJ Productions live stream. They are being fooled. They are being hoaxed.
Post by: PureLove on October 02, 2011, 08:30:46 PM
PureLove-What is the DA banner? DA stands for Distric Attorney which is the prosecutor. I did not say coincidence at all. The name spelled wrong is a blatant in your face mistake on purpose. The defense made the wrong name on the board they presented in court. I was explaining the EMT report could be a simple mistake that happens alot more than it does not. I was saying the middle name Joe vs Joseph is what my answer to bec was about.PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
Keep your good luck to yourself k.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
Defense's banner. I wrote it wrong. Pls try to bare with my english. I confused defense and prosecution. Sorry for the mistake. Ok, so you're saying that the defense wrote the name MicHEAL on purpose. And I was asking what about the Micheal in the EMT report. But it looks like you are talking about Joe/Joseph but I was talking about MicHEALs lol. I do believe it is also a sting too. Against medical industry. And like you wrote, the truth will prevail and we will see someday soon.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 08:45:10 PM
I <3 you guys....my 5 yr old daughter has been mocking this the last few days...she's saying "Mommy...troot, troot...that man said troot"...ROFL
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 08:48:16 PM
@Im_convinced, even a digital image has to be created by someone. You accept that this is simply a mistake? What original did this careless image creator copy from? How could they be so inept? How could their superior be so inept? How could 32 stars on an official state seal be missed by the entire chain of command responsible for providing this image on an "official" court TV broadcast?bec-This is the comment I am referring to when I made my comment to you. IF your intentions at this time were to point out the N typo you didn't specify that. I was thinking you were referring to his middle name being wrong. Over in the "back" thread I just recently read that you posted this pic and spoke on the N thing. I am not confused. This comment of yours is in this thread on page 21. In Session is the ONLY TV station in the courtroom. Every other station has to lease the footage. How can you explain the live feed that the other stations are broadcasting are coming from a camera MJ has set up? Did he do a McGyver and somehow interrupted the live feed from In Session and diverted to the other stations? Your theory doesn't make sense. I am so over the CA state seal. I am moving on. bangbang
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.
I didn't say anything about Joe/Joseph nor did I post a pic that said Joe/Joseph. I posted the pic that said "pronouced". Im_convinced you're either terribly mistaken or you are being disingenuous.
This is a movie. Court is a MJJ production. The seal is being broadcasted by MJJ's cameras. The media companies are unaware of this. They believe they are broadcasting the CourtTV live stream when in fact it is MJJ Productions live stream. They are being fooled. They are being hoaxed.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 02, 2011, 08:49:13 PM
I've been going over some of the levels we've already been through...and it's becoming increasing clear to me why we HAD to go through those levels...not to mention TS' 'purpose' from the start. Although Mike is a prankster, the journey we've had with TS from the beginning has been anything but a 'joke'. The posts were detailed enough to plant seeds, stimulate the mind, heighten awareness, and a desire for truth (when was the last time you were this excited in your life, as you have been over the last two years in reading TS' posts?). BUT...not detailed enough to lead us to complete truth...at least not yet. To be able to keep an audience on the edge of their seats for almost 2 years...while educating them, awakening them...is simply a work of beauty at the level of genius.
As for the 'seal' issue that the last few pages have been about...it's clearly fake, everyone seems to agree on that. The 'debate' seems to be centered on 'proving' whether or not Mike intentionally had the 'fake' seal strategically placed (and to a lesser extent, if so 'why'?)...or if it was an error by whichever media outlet runs it.
The only 'support' I could give the media error theory would be...it somehow got messed up by whoever made it...they realized it was messed up but ran it anyway hoping no one would notice (and trust me, we're the only ones that did :lol: )...either due to costs, time frame, whatever. Or they still haven't realized that it's wrong :?
While it is 'plausible,' my biggest problem(s) with it is how the heck was this sort of error made in the first place---I know human error is rampant, we're not perfect---but you'd think that for a trial with worldwide interest...streaming live...not to mention the complete focus every single time camera coverage is cut off in court...they'd be more careful with the SEAL of their state! This 'seal' was created for this trial, and this trial alone. Knowing all this, if I was the person making the seal or their supervisor...THE 'seal' for the Michael Jackson Death Trial...I'd be checking it once, checking it twice...and then having someone else to the same for me...every single detail of it.
So, I am leaning more towards it being intentionally placed...I haven't heard or seen enough yet to know, or at least understand, why. But I'm watchin'.
No matter which side one is leaning to, we should try to keep it 'investigative' and not sweat the small stuff. No matter how far down you're leaning on either side of the 'debate'...none of us can touch our toes just yet...about anything. While some may have already guessed or figured out certain 'pieces'...no one has yet to 'piece' it all together. Our only hope of doing that is by working as a TEAM.
It's a Thriller remember?...Mike, much like TS ;) , is gonna hold something back til the very end...even for us 'beLIEvers' ;) .
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 09:03:00 PM
Thanks for your insight as well Looking4Truth ::P
I've been going over some of the levels we've already been through...and it's becoming increasing clear to me why we HAD to go through those levels...not to mention TS' 'purpose' from the start. Although Mike is a prankster, the journey we've had with TS from the beginning has been anything but a 'joke'. The posts were detailed enough to plant seeds, stimulate the mind, heighten awareness, and a desire for truth (when was the last time you were this excited in your life, as you have been over the last two years in reading TS' posts?). BUT...not detailed enough to lead us to complete truth...at least not yet. To be able to keep an audience on the edge of their seats for almost 2 years...while educating them, awakening them...is simply a work of beauty at the level of genius.
As for the 'seal' issue that the last few pages have been about...it's clearly fake, everyone seems to agree on that. The 'debate' seems to be centered on 'proving' whether or not Mike intentionally had the 'fake' seal strategically placed (and to a lesser extent, if so 'why'?)...or if it was an error by whichever media outlet runs it.
The only 'support' I could give the media error theory would be...it somehow got messed up by whoever made it...they realized it was messed up but ran it anyway hoping no one would notice (and trust me, we're the only ones that did :lol: )...either due to costs, time frame, whatever. Or they still haven't realized that it's wrong :?
While it is 'plausible,' my biggest problem(s) with it is how the heck was this sort of error made in the first place---I know human error is rampant, we're not perfect---but you'd think that for a trial with worldwide interest...streaming live...not to mention the complete focus every single time camera coverage is cut off in court...they'd be more careful with the SEAL of their state! This 'seal' was created for this trial, and this trial alone. Knowing all this, if I was the person making the seal or their supervisor...THE 'seal' for the Michael Jackson Death Trial...I'd be checking it once, checking it twice...and then having someone else to the same for me...every single detail of it.
So, I am leaning more towards it being intentionally placed...I haven't heard or seen enough yet to know, or at least understand, why. But I'm watchin'.
No matter which side one is leaning to, we should try to keep it 'investigative' and not sweat the small stuff. No matter how far down you're leaning on either side of the 'debate'...none of us can touch our toes just yet...about anything. While some may have already guessed or figured out certain 'pieces'...no one has yet to 'piece' it all together. Our only hope of doing that is by working as a TEAM.
It's a Thriller remember?...Mike, much like TS ;) , is gonna hold something back til the very end...even for us 'beLIEvers' ;) .
With L.O.V.E. always.
they don't mass produce california seals for television ( the ones in the court rooms are there permanently)
The seal stays in the court room, it's not a prop they just put up and take down, so someone mentioning that In Session "made it for TV" is nonsense. I'm starting to believe the whole courtroom is fake and they are filming in a tiny room somewhere in the courthouse and not in an actual courtroom...maybe the cafeteria? lolol/
The seal was faked for a reason..I'm 1000000000% sure of it and I'm beginning to believe this is not an actual courtroom.
Damn, I wish I had a traffic violation in that courthouse so I can look around and see what room that trial is being held in, but I assume they have "security" all over that building!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 02, 2011, 09:05:58 PM
Thanks for your insight as well Looking4Truth ::P
I've been going over some of the levels we've already been through...and it's becoming increasing clear to me why we HAD to go through those levels...not to mention TS' 'purpose' from the start. Although Mike is a prankster, the journey we've had with TS from the beginning has been anything but a 'joke'. The posts were detailed enough to plant seeds, stimulate the mind, heighten awareness, and a desire for truth (when was the last time you were this excited in your life, as you have been over the last two years in reading TS' posts?). BUT...not detailed enough to lead us to complete truth...at least not yet. To be able to keep an audience on the edge of their seats for almost 2 years...while educating them, awakening them...is simply a work of beauty at the level of genius.
As for the 'seal' issue that the last few pages have been about...it's clearly fake, everyone seems to agree on that. The 'debate' seems to be centered on 'proving' whether or not Mike intentionally had the 'fake' seal strategically placed (and to a lesser extent, if so 'why'?)...or if it was an error by whichever media outlet runs it.
The only 'support' I could give the media error theory would be...it somehow got messed up by whoever made it...they realized it was messed up but ran it anyway hoping no one would notice (and trust me, we're the only ones that did :lol: )...either due to costs, time frame, whatever. Or they still haven't realized that it's wrong :?
While it is 'plausible,' my biggest problem(s) with it is how the heck was this sort of error made in the first place---I know human error is rampant, we're not perfect---but you'd think that for a trial with worldwide interest...streaming live...not to mention the complete focus every single time camera coverage is cut off in court...they'd be more careful with the SEAL of their state! This 'seal' was created for this trial, and this trial alone. Knowing all this, if I was the person making the seal or their supervisor...THE 'seal' for the Michael Jackson Death Trial...I'd be checking it once, checking it twice...and then having someone else to the same for me...every single detail of it.
So, I am leaning more towards it being intentionally placed...I haven't heard or seen enough yet to know, or at least understand, why. But I'm watchin'.
No matter which side one is leaning to, we should try to keep it 'investigative' and not sweat the small stuff. No matter how far down you're leaning on either side of the 'debate'...none of us can touch our toes just yet...about anything. While some may have already guessed or figured out certain 'pieces'...no one has yet to 'piece' it all together. Our only hope of doing that is by working as a TEAM.
It's a Thriller remember?...Mike, much like TS ;) , is gonna hold something back til the very end...even for us 'beLIEvers' ;) .
With L.O.V.E. always.
Great post Be The Change! I agree with what you have said...Thee are so many "layers" to this that it will be impossible to guess the ending....Only Michael knows how this one is gonna end, so we can discuss, but we shouldn't "judge" until we have all of the facts, from Michael himself!!
I Love you all, we are a family...and when I say I Love you all, I mean to include EVERY member of the Jackson family that may be reading this,...we are ALL one big family of LOVE!!!
bearhug
PS You guys are all so great with your "Investigative eyes" "Well Done Family!"
Post by: BeTheChange on October 02, 2011, 09:12:23 PM
.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
Hi Im_convinced...there's actually been a few good posts supporting a 'sting'...you are not alone ::P
IMO, one cannot take place without the other...not THIS particular trial. Just knowing that the trial is about a living dead man, proves a 'hoax' aspect. Someone in that room---even if it's just Murray, which I highly doubt---knows that Mike is alive. So, I have no problem believing there's a hoax element at play.
Where opinions seem to differ is on whether or not it is ALL a hoax (done for a movie or 'show' for whatever reason---which could very well be a VERY good reason)...or if this part of the 'hoax' (the trial) is a tool utilized for a 'sting' operation. I can see it being both...I won't be surprised one bit if, at the end of all this, the 'trial' is part of a movie.
BUT...given all the paths that TS has led us down for the past two years...911/JFK/NWO/EOW/God/Bible/Illuminati/TPTB/Final Battle/good vs. evil, etc etc...mixed in with the absolute HELL 'they' put Mike through over the years...I'm HOPING there's some major 'stinging' coming soon...and I'm actively seeking it out during the trial. I WANT there to be a 'sting' operation at play...and I can SEE possible 'targets' that Mike could be going after already in the trial.
No matter how many 'theories' we throw back and forth...NONE OF US know WTF?? is going on, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Mike has set it up exactly that way. Until such time that anyone here has 100% proof, I'm hoping everyone remembers we're all on the same side.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 02, 2011, 09:13:04 PM
PureLove-What is the DA banner? DA stands for Distric Attorney which is the prosecutor. I did not say coincidence at all. The name spelled wrong is a blatant in your face mistake on purpose. The defense made the wrong name on the board they presented in court. I was explaining the EMT report could be a simple mistake that happens alot more than it does not. I was saying the middle name Joe vs Joseph is what my answer to bec was about.PureLove-You didn't understand what I was saying. There is no written word of coincidence or random in my comment. The comment you quoted was in reference to the picture bec posted of MJ's middle name as Joseph. She posted an image that the prosecution used in the opening statements. The prosecution gets their info from the detectives, coroners report, autopsy, death certificate and experts they use. The name that is on all the documents we have seen is Michael Joseph Jackson. That is what the DA is going by. The DA did not use the name Micheal that was the defense who blatently misspelled the name most likely to show how easy people do not catch things. The defense is working to get Murray found not guilty and IMO is going to shove obvious mistakes in peoples faces until someone says "Hey wait a mintue that is not right."bec-Of course I know SOMEONE had to make the image. What makes you so sure that whomever made the image actually copied it from a source? That person could have easily made it from memory. Yes the whole death hoax has shown me that people are that STUPID. You side stepped the question of how did MJ convince the MEDIA to put up a fake CA seal. What is the end result of a hoax court? What will this fake hoax court prove? The DA showing the mistake of MJ's middle name only proves that they are that STUPID and CORRUPT because they didn't bother to verify facts. They accepted this picture from whomever gave it to them as real and they didn't verify it's legitimacy.
Ohh c'mon girl. Do you really believe what you're saying? After 2 years, after finding out all of the clues, didn't we learn that there's no coincidence in this hoax? So you're saying the name written by the paramedics MicHEAL and also by the prosecution MicHEAL is just a coincidence and that's just a random mistake which was made by stupid people? Sorry but that doesn't make ANY sense.
Yes for 2 years the mistakes have been there and as we can see the DA is going with the false evidence as being real. They did not bother to follow up and investigate to see if the name was wrong. Joe vs Joseph. The EMT who wrote the report and spelled his name wrong isn't really a big deal. There are many here who spell his name that way all the time. It is an easy transpo typo.
Yes PureLove I believe everything I am saying. /cook/
I understood what you were saying and I was asking you if you think that it is a coincidence that MicHEAL name coming on the EMT report and on DA's banner at the trial. I'm not talking about what the defense or the prosecution is trying to do and also not talking about Joe/Joseph issue. But I think I got my answer. You think these are just random typos, mistakes. Good luck to you with everything you believe. I'm not so sure if I would be a believer if I was the one who was believing the things you write in this thread.
Keep your good luck to yourself k.. I do not have anyone on my side at the moment helping me to defend the sting court (only) so it is a harder job than you realize. IF there is anyone on my side no one so far has said as much. In the end the troot will prevail so we shall see. smiley_spider
Ok so how many mistakes they need to do, his name his date of birth!! Come on. I can understand typo mistake on his name, even his date of birth? They wrote 8/28/1958 wasn't he born on the 29 ? These are mistakes done voluntary, not typo.. This court cannot prosecute someone who hasn't killed anyone.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 02, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
@Im_convinced, even a digital image has to be created by someone. You accept that this is simply a mistake? What original did this careless image creator copy from? How could they be so inept? How could their superior be so inept? How could 32 stars on an official state seal be missed by the entire chain of command responsible for providing this image on an "official" court TV broadcast?bec-This is the comment I am referring to when I made my comment to you. IF your intentions at this time were to point out the N typo you didn't specify that. I was thinking you were referring to his middle name being wrong. Over in the "back" thread I just recently read that you posted this pic and spoke on the N thing. I am not confused. This comment of yours is in this thread on page 21. In Session is the ONLY TV station in the courtroom. Every other station has to lease the footage. How can you explain the live feed that the other stations are broadcasting are coming from a camera MJ has set up? Did he do a McGyver and somehow interrupted the live feed from In Session and diverted to the other stations? Your theory doesn't make sense. I am so over the CA state seal. I am moving on. bangbang
You argument is weak and you are grasping at straws. The chances of this mistake occurring and getting past all proofreads and all quality checks, even a digital image, are extremely slim. Add this typo to the overwhelming evidence:
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/mjspellingpros.jpg)
and you have arrived at statistical impossibility that the Prosecution is not in on it.I didn't say anything about Joe/Joseph nor did I post a pic that said Joe/Joseph. I posted the pic that said "pronouced". Im_convinced you're either terribly mistaken or you are being disingenuous.
This is a movie. Court is a MJJ production. The seal is being broadcasted by MJJ's cameras. The media companies are unaware of this. They believe they are broadcasting the CourtTV live stream when in fact it is MJJ Productions live stream. They are being fooled. They are being hoaxed.
Seems like I am being completely ignored here, but let's just try it one more time: FBI?
Defending one point of view does not mean just thinking inside that box imo. If it is not against the DA/judge, then that doesn't mean it's not a sting court at all, since there are other options here. This could have been set up by all participants for a sting operation that takes place outside this courtroom. Certain subjects might be discussed that will not be objected to infuriate certain individuals, or this could be a very important distraction from other MJ related things going on behind the curtains. Also a possibility is that this court has nothing to do with the sting whatsoever, but that it is a way for Michael to f*ck the media there where the sun doesn't shine, and that it was one of his conditions for cooperating with the FBI in certain aspects of the sting. Both parties want to catch the bad guys, and additionally Michael wants to hoax his death for other reasons. "You help me, I help you." And if Michael can make the FBI release a number of pages that fits into his long planned death hoax plan, on a date that fits his long time death hoax plan, then please tell me why he couldn't make sure we all see a fake seal on the livestreams? Whether it's actually in the courtroom or not doesn't even matter.
If the seal is in that courtroom, then it's easy. If not and an image from insession, then all you need is one key figure at insession.
Saying "I am so over the CA state seal. I am moving on." is raising the white flag in my opinion.
And in my opinion the reason why you don't have much support for your sting court theory, is because you are not open to other sting theories that do not involve the prosecution/judge or whoever is lying his ass off in there. I think most in this thread agree that there is a sting, I think even bec said that, but there is more than one road leading to Rome, you know?
Just my observations and opinion.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 02, 2011, 09:29:13 PM
Living life is fun and we've just begun
To get our share of the world's delights
(HIGH!) high hopes we have for the future
And our goal's in sight
(WE!) no we don't get depressed
Here's what we call our golden rule
Have faith in you and the things you do
You won't go wrong
This is our family Jewel
WE ARE FAMILY
I got all my sisters (and brothers lol) with me
We are family
Get up ev'rybody and sing!
Mike's ALIVE...does the 'small stuff' really matter? I feel like penguin/ :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. On the Dr. Drew show tonight (not sure if it was a re-run)...he opened the show by saying (and I wrote down as much as I could while he was saying it lol):
"Not only was Michael Jackson the King of Pop but he was also a character. You never knew what he was going to do next or why"
LMFAO...they have no clue.
Post by: bec on October 02, 2011, 09:51:48 PM
its been proven the seal is fake. the actual seal of CA has 31 stars, not 32. I'm going to see if I can dig up real photos of it from previous trials.
Michael's name has been misspelled so far on quite a few LEGAL documents. If you misspell a name, it's not considered legal anymore, is it?
So far 3 testimonies don't add up. Alvarez's statement that he helped "Dr Murray" put MJ on the floor. Both paramedics stated when they arrived, he was already on the floor.
The autopsy photo is fake. When Michael Jackson died, it was stated there were NO photos. Not one existed. The LAST photo was taken supposedly in the ambulance ( which has also proved fake).
You can look at the photo, zoom in 200X and notice the discrepancies, the discoloration and the fact certain parts of his body overlap each other.
I can SAFELY say I'm an expert in that field, I'm a graphic designer/website designer/ image designer and have been for 11 years. I know what overlaying/masking is and that photo has so much overlapping/overlaying its pathetic.
The fact that there were trash cans on the street the day he died. ILLEGAL.
Its been stated trash pickup for 100 Carolwood is on Wednesdays. As per city ordinance, you must remove your cans before 7am the FOLLOWING day. This is a law for anyone who lives on a street in a busy city...I live in San Diego , Ive received that fine already the first week I bought my house)
Where those cans are positioned, they are NOT in an alley, they are located along the side of the street, last I checked, I didn't see any "trash cans" just lined up on a non-trash day when we visited LA/Hollywood/ Bel Air last summer....
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
All very good support for Hoax Court theory... however I am fairly convinced it's MJ's voice on the recording... but you're right that it doesn't sound like him, and we haven't heard anything about it being verified with voice forensics.
(I suppose the point there is they offer up voice forensics to help sell an album but not to verify evidence in a criminal trial. we will have to keep watching to see what happens when this evidence is submitted.)
Post by: bec on October 02, 2011, 09:54:55 PM
Still I believe the 32 stars on the Cali seal point to the U.S. flag because that one has 32 stars for sure. There is a smal flag with stripes only in the plant on the court reporter's desk, too.
There are 50 stars on the U.S. flag and 13 stripes. They represent the number of states and original colonies respectively.
Post by: bec on October 02, 2011, 10:37:56 PM
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
It would be really great if someone could collaborate with you on this one. I didn't hear this but I was 10 min late to tune in. If anyone can back this up please pipe in. Sting Court side has already conceded the subject but confirmation of your observation would seal the deal. (no pun intended)
It's not only California state seal which is fake. Remember the coroner report and the seal on it? It had the old one that was used before 2004 which is not valid no more.
Yes I remember, I just couldn't remember which document it was. Thanks PureLove. More then one fake seal in the death of MJ. We've also seen wrong names on documents many times. The Death Certificate even has "
The FBI files trip me up when attempting to debate no involvement there (100% Hoax Court). They are damning evidence of FBI involvement. MJ has to have at least one key person at the FBI, probably more then one.... but when it comes to making the leap to a Sting (a theory few considered plausible until championed by TS), I'm at a loss as to who or what would be flushed out by MJ being "dead". We haven't seen anything in the course of the past 27 months to support a Sting on anyone/anything... except the media and the fans.
How to explain FBI involvement without a Sting... I'm not for certain yet... but I'm also not certain that FBI involvement has to = Sting.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 02, 2011, 10:48:33 PM
I don't know how much of the trial I'll be able to watch tomorrow...have to take my daughter to her DR appt but I'm going to DVR it just in case they happen to mention about "zooming in" on the seal.
I'm watching the TS videos right now and I'm blown away....
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 02, 2011, 11:23:07 PM
TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
It would be really great if someone could collaborate with you on this one. I didn't hear this but I was 10 min late to tune in. If anyone can back this up please pipe in. Sting Court side has already conceded the subject but confirmation of your observation would seal the deal. (no pun intended)
I accidentally slept through the first 15 min of opening statement from Walgren and I watched an hour of it on HLN before I began watching online. (It was my day off and I was lazy, sleepy and hungover lol) They didn't mention the cameras on Livestream, it was on HLN. Unfortunately, I didn't think to take note of it and it slipped my mind who said it and when. But I will try hard to find it, although it might be tricky. Was anyone watching HLN on day 1 of trial or was everyone watching Live via internet? bounce/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 02, 2011, 11:51:32 PM
The thinking out of the box statement directed at me and my thought process was unnecessary because I sooooo think outside the box, how do you think I ended up on a MJDHI site? I am not against the hoax court theory or any other theories anyone else presents but IF it doesn't fit then I must quit...the theory. fresse/
I never said that the only option for the sting court was for the DA and judge. In fact I posted a whole lot of possible sting targets in my long post with the too many links. IF anyone would have taken the time to actually read the post it would be clear I think there is a major over all encompassing sting in effect.
There is 3 options at the beginning of this thread: Sting court, Hoax court and Murder theory. I am trying to bring evidence and not just my opinion to back up my theories. I realize there is more to this than just a sting. I am not on a 1 track mind and only see a sting. As for the I am so over the CA state seal and I am moving on, well that is not a white flag raised. It's more like going back and forth beating the issue to death is nonproductive, wastes energy and time. In the end I can't make people believe what I say just like those who think it is fake and planted by MJ wont convince the ones who think it is a mistake only. In the end I agree to disagree and keep the respect/ for all.
@BeTheChange-Thank you for your comment. I have read everything posted in this thread and I have seen people posting their thoughts regarding the sting theory but my comment was meant to say I am alone on trying to defend the sting court theory ONLY with no hoax it's a movie theory.
The reason I say that is IF people are thinking something similiar to me I have not felt that because no one has said I agree Im_convincedmjalive or what about this theory or this theory? What has been happening is bec, Souza and I have been debating and I get the occasional you really believe that or your theory is weak and your grasping for straws. lolol/
If anyone has good evidence and not just assumption, speculation and opinions I really do need some help to make the sting theory stronger. This is the 23rd page and we are only 4 days into the trial. We haven't even debated or discussed all the witness testimonies.
The body/corpse is coming soon. moonwalk_/
Post by: TheSecret on October 02, 2011, 11:56:09 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 03, 2011, 12:16:06 AM
Richelle Cooper, the cardiologist's Emergency Department of UCLA who directed resuscitation attempts and stated the death. He stated that when the patient arrived it had eyes open, dry and dilated pupils and so when it declared the death.
In the ambulance pic the eyes are closed. What the paramedics and Dr. Cooper say contradict the ambulance picture, so what can this mean?
1. Ben simply faked the ambulance pic and found some fools to buy it --> MJ is dead or
2.The paramedics and Dr. Cooper are in the hoax --> MJ is alive BUT I find it hard to believe these people are in the hoax after listening their testimonies. They just don't seem to act. They are real people and not actors. IMO they just tell what they saw. So the next option is
But if they are in service to the FBI, that changes everything. Do not you think?
By the way, someone said on twitter that Murray left the court in an official car Of U.S.. Can anyone confirm this?
I don't think it changes something.
My premise after watching their testimonies is that they don't act or lie, the only one I have doubts about is Blunt (the "klingon" - I hope I'm not wrong about his name).
Collaborating with FBI woouldn't make them trained actors all of a sudden, so they could lie under oath like that.
To me it's like this: they don't lie, they tell what they saw so -----> they really saw a body there, they were all working on a corpse (they all said he was dead, only Murray insisted he should be taken to the hospital).
As I stated before, the best scenario I can think of now, after watching their testimonies, is that the body of a man was used instead of Michael. I say the most optimistic scenario is this because to me the alternative is that he is dead. I don't believe they are all in the hoax so that a dummy or no body theories could be true.
Of course everything changes if they are actually lying, but I really don't believe at all.
Post by: 6Bpeople on October 03, 2011, 12:34:28 AM
maybe this link have been post before, if not...enjoy the sting in the court.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 12:36:27 AM
As for the I am so over the CA state seal and I am moving on, well that is not a white flag raised. It's more like going back and forth beating the issue to death is nonproductive, wastes energy and time. In the end I can't make people believe what I say just like those who think it is fake and planted by MJ wont convince the ones who think it is a mistake only. In the end I agree to disagree and keep the respect/ for all.
You have failed to support your theory. That is why I said it was weak and appeared you are grasping at straws. I do not agree to disagree. This is the most profound and damning evidence of hoax court to-date.
The FBI could be involved without a Sting operation if they are providing clearance to MJ (approval). Ever since it was revealed that the FBI has an honest-to-goodness entertainment department with Hollywood consultants on hand to assist with FBI themed entertainment productions, a seed was planted...
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 03, 2011, 02:20:31 AM
Hello everyone. Im not a new member although this is my first post in this forum, I have been here since the original mjhd.com ;) .
I wanted to ask someone to post the latest video from 'mjhoaxevidence' on youtube here. Its very relevant as it speaks about the "death photo" used in trial. It is a fact that the photo is not a valid photo taken of a dead MJ on June 25th 2009. On a side note, if you noticed in the photo, it appears he has an IV hooked up to him, possibly through his nostrils. This is not done on a dead patient only ones who are already alive and stable. They would have alledgedly been trying to resuscitate him and an IV would not be needed.
Hey TheSecret, welcome
the video you are talking about has been already posted:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20682.msg359570.html#msg359570
Post by: Adi on October 03, 2011, 03:36:29 AM
Keep your eyes and ears peeled (as my dear dad says).
Last week was only week 1 and look what we have ascertained from it already...things can only get......more interesting????
Keep the faith guys
bearhug
Post by: TheSecret on October 03, 2011, 05:10:43 AM
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 03, 2011, 05:16:45 AM
Has everyone steeled themselves for what we might be about to encounter this coming week?
Keep your eyes and ears peeled (as my dear dad says).
Last week was only week 1 and look what we have ascertained from it already...things can only get......more interesting????
Keep the faith guys
bearhug
Can't wait!
Post by: Grace on October 03, 2011, 05:17:01 AM
I looked at that fake CA seal ("seal the deal" was my immediate connotation) and thought that the "enlightened" characters might mean something.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../images/seals.png)
The light shines bright on the characters "OREF" (and the arm).
So I googled for OREF and was directed to three paths:
- the "Orthopaedic Research and Education Foundation"
- the "Ordre romand des experts fiscaux" in Switzerland (tax experts organization)
- the Pikud Ha'Oref flag, an Israelian military flag half orange, half light blue
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Pikud_Ha%27Oref_flag.svg/100px-Pikud_Ha%27Oref_flag.svg.png)
(Israel defense forces - homefront command).
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Pikud_Ha%27Oref_flag.svg (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Pikud_Ha%27Oref_flag.svg)
When I researched the military flags of Israel as such, I ran into this one:
Mifkedet Zro'a HaYabasha
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/il%5Eland.gif)
which is representing the army (land arm) military division and carries all the colours of the Jackson brothers' T-Shirt photo
(http://images.suite101.com/1389244_com_jacksonbro.png)
and the leaves TS was insisting on.
More on Israel (military) flags:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/il%5E.html (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/il%5E.html)
Key on "defense" ?
Getting back into my box....
Post by: MJonmind on October 03, 2011, 05:31:42 AM
6Bpeople
Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAs3MMg2DfEToo funny! Here is another clip!
maybe this link have been post before, if not...enjoy the sting in the court.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=WujwVCzOQxU[/youtube]
The Larry King in here is really his voice! He says the trial of the century! It's a 2007 movie.
Quote
PlotBarry B. Benson (Jerry Seinfeld) is "just an ordinary bee" in a hive located in Sheep's Meadow in Central Park in New York City. Barry recently graduated from college and is about to enter the hive's Honex Industries (a division of Honesco Corporation and owned by the Hexagon Group) honey-making workforce. Along with his best friend Adam Flayman (Matthew Broderick), Barry is initially very excited, but his latent, non-conformist attitude emerges upon finding out that his choice of job will never change once picked. This prompts Barry to leave the hive and see the world on a daily run with the macho, elite "Pollen Jocks", though Adam tries to talk Barry out of it. He thoroughly enjoys his new freedom, and is impressed by the process of nectar collection and pollination, but after being stuck to a tennis ball during a game and flying through a panicky family's car he decides humans are crazy and that he should go home. Unfortunately, it begins to rain and he crash lands on a windowsill. The apartment's occupants have just come home and they close the window before Barry can escape. After freaking out the people inside and nearly being squashed, he is rescued by a female florist human named Vanessa Bloome (Renée Zellweger) and gently put back outside. This unexpected act of kindness intrigues Barry, who goes back in to thank the woman even though doing so would violate Bee Law #1, "Don't talk to humans". Despite both of their expectations they develop an instant bond, bordering on attraction, and start hanging out together frequently. Of course all of their friends and family are completely upset by this relationship.
While they are going through a grocery store, Barry is shocked to discover that the humans have been stealing and eating the bees' honey for centuries, and decides to journey to Honey Farms, which supplies the grocery store with its honey. On the Honey Farms truck, he meets a mosquito named Mooseblood (Chris Rock). A windshield wiper flings the two in a tube and Barry tells Mooseblood about Honey Farms while Mooseblood tells him about how humans have always swatted mosquitoes. Mooseblood departs when he sees a Blood Mobile pass by, while Barry goes on to witness the artificial process by which the honey is gathered. He ultimately realizes that his true calling in life is to set the world right by suing the human race for stealing their precious honey. This is later shown on Hive at Five's especially on Bee Larry King starring a bee version of Larry King (voiced by Larry King). The trial initially goes well, until the main defense lawyer (John Goodman) goads Adam into stinging him by accusing Barry of several things which are insulting to the bees (having a pet-like relationship with Vanessa, being an illegitimate son, since all bees are sons of the queen bee and having incestuous flirtings with the female bees, since all bees are siblings) in order to show the less lovable side of bees, but Barry counters by producing the smoke-machine used by Honey Farms to drug and subdue their bees.
Barry wins the lawsuit, and all honey in the world is confiscated and returned to the bees. However, the defense lawyer warns them they are disrupting nature's balance meaning that the bees quit their jobs, which Adam comments to Vanessa that it might be true since bees had been living their previous lives over 27 million years. Too late, Barry and Vanessa realize that they were right: the sudden, massive stockpile of honey has put every bee out of a job, including the vitally important Pollen Jocks. Without bees pollinating the flowers, all plant life begins dying with the entire food chain close behind. To set things right, he and Vanessa find a way to save all the flowers by going to the Tournament of Roses Parade in Pasadena, California and bringing back with them all the pollen-filled flowers to re-pollinate the world. Barry and Vanessa fly the flowers as luggage on a flight from Los Angeles International Airport to John F. Kennedy International Airport. The flight begins to take a detour due to lightning, which would be fatal to the flowers, and in trying to intervene Barry accidentally knocks out the terrified pilots. Vanessa joins him and tries unsuccessfully to fly the plane, but in the meantime millions of bees have rallied together and arrive at the last minute to help them safely land.
Armed with the pollen of the last flowers, Barry and the Pollen Jocks manage to reverse the damage and save the world's flowers, also restarting the bees' beloved honey production. Nothing is mentioned about the fate of companies like Honey Farms, though humans and bees are seen treating each other visibly better, and honey is supposed to be 'Bee approved'. Barry becomes a member of the Pollen Jocks while Adam is working as a krelman, helping to pollinate the plants while also running a law firm inside Vanessa's flower shop, as well as helping Vanessa, switching the name from "Vanessa's Flowers" to "Vanessa and Barry: Flowers; Honey; Legal Advice". As the film closes, his office door reads "Insects at Law." Mooseblood also works in his office with him as a lawyer(stating that he is already a bloodsucking parasite and only needed a briefcase), which is shown when Barry is interviewing a cow about the human exploitation of her milk.
fatalkiss26
Quote
hey don't mass produce california seals for television ( the ones in the court rooms are there permanently)When I see the 2 typical courtrooms you posted, it sure seems to me that the Murray trial seating arrangement is totally different. Can anyone tell me where the jury, and family with other supporters are seated? Shouldn't the jury be to the left of the judge, and are those the family and friends behind the lawyers?
The seal stays in the court room, it's not a prop they just put up and take down, so someone mentioning that In Session "made it for TV" is nonsense. I'm starting to believe the whole courtroom is fake and they are filming in a tiny room somewhere in the courthouse and not in an actual courtroom...maybe the cafeteria?
The seal was faked for a reason..I'm 1000000000% sure of it and I'm beginning to believe this is not an actual courtroom.
Damn, I wish I had a traffic violation in that courthouse so I can look around and see what room that trial is being held in, but I assume they have "security" all over that building!
(http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/otrc/2010/photos/110927_conrad_murray_trial_courtroom.jpg)
(http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/otrc/2010/photos/110927_conrad_murray_trial_dda_david_walgren_back.jpg)
Post by: _Anna_ on October 03, 2011, 05:47:30 AM
It makes no sense to make a remake of the original CA seal and combine things from the US flag, like take the number of stars from there, put them there, make a whole potpurri of things and create the CA seal. Jesus, it's a fucking court. It's not a kiddie improvisation game to see what can come out from morphing the US flag with the CA seal. A state seal is a state seal.Still I believe the 32 stars on the Cali seal point to the U.S. flag because that one has 32 stars for sure. There is a smal flag with stripes only in the plant on the court reporter's desk, too.
There are 50 stars on the U.S. flag and 13 stripes. They represent the number of states and original colonies respectively.
And the US flag has 50 stars, 13 stripes. California is the 31st state in US since history, that's a fact and cannot be changed, nor modified.
I don't believe this is a simple mistake, error, accident. If I was someone to work for such a huge court case, and be the designer of this kind of things- like the seal- I would check it 10 times before sending it to be taken out and showed to the world. Even for way less important things, otherwise it's complete lack of professionalism. When you have to design/remake something like this seal, with lots of details on it, you check everything until you are sure everything is ok.
When you design this even on a computer software, you think- here is a man, EUREKA above, 4 boats, and stars above- and you COUNT them. You don't just throw a chain of stars there. The stars are already small and hard to count them right from the first try, so that's why you would count them twice, three times, four times, until you get the same answer- 31. IF you counted 32 for mistake first, there is now way I believe someone would sount 32 the 2nd time, the 3rd time. Because it's a DETAILS thing. Even when someone pointed out for the first time there are 32 stars and not 31, I went and counted 3 times, I asked my sister to do the same, once, twice, to see if we get the same answer and that our eyes don't slip. We got 31 from the start, and then every time we counted. I absolutely don't believe a professional would count the stars-when designing the remake seal- just once and throw it there. There is no way that was a simple accident, mistake.
Post by: Sarahli on October 03, 2011, 07:03:41 AM
Quote
California's Great Seal
[...]
Use:
The Great Seal is for the official use of the Governor. The Secretary of State has the custody of the Great Seal and shall:
keep a register and attest the official acts of the Governor and shall affix the Great Seal, with his attestation, to commissions, pardons, and other public instruments, to which the official signature of the Governor is required. (California Government Code. sec. 12162)
I am not sure to understand properly. Does it mean that before the seal can be used in any circumstance, it has to be approved by the Governor? Or is it just for official papers?
Post by: Mish1981 on October 03, 2011, 07:32:26 AM
It would be really great if someone could collaborate with you on this one. I didn't hear this but I was 10 min late to tune in. If anyone can back this up please pipe in. Sting Court side has already conceded the subject but confirmation of your observation would seal the deal. (no pun intended)TMZ uses the seal when there is a side bar conference, Cox Channel 107 is also streaming live and uses the same seal as well.
TMZ is streaming LIVE as well as Cox, HLN breaks for commercials...so I HIGHLY doubt everyone is using a seal provided by HLN, my assumption is, its a seal in the courtroom somewhere.
TMZ must have their own cameras in the courtroom or they are streaming from HLN's and they only have one camera in the courtroom.
This whole thing is making me crazy...
They mentioned it the first day of court I believe, that during breaks the cameras in the courthouse zoom to the seal, and when break is over the cameras lower back down and resume taping the trial.
Was I the only one who heard them say that? Because I know for a FACT that they said thats what they do when they show the seal.
It's not only California state seal which is fake. Remember the coroner report and the seal on it? It had the old one that was used before 2004 which is not valid no more.
Yes I remember, I just couldn't remember which document it was. Thanks PureLove. More then one fake seal in the death of MJ. We've also seen wrong names on documents many times. The Death Certificate even has "this is a legal document" on it. These things negate the preceding. A forged signature negates a contract or agreement. A fake seal negates a document. This is how forgeries are prevented.
The FBI files trip me up when attempting to debate no involvement there (100% Hoax Court). They are damning evidence of FBI involvement. MJ has to have at least one key person at the FBI, probably more then one.... but when it comes to making the leap to a Sting (a theory few considered plausible until championed by TS), I'm at a loss as to who or what would be flushed out by MJ being "dead". We haven't seen anything in the course of the past 27 months to support a Sting on anyone/anything... except the media and the fans.
How to explain FBI involvement without a Sting... I'm not for certain yet... but I'm also not certain that FBI involvement has to = Sting.
It could just be me but, if you pay attention to the seal before it starts in the morning or when ever they take a break, it doesn't look like they zoom in on the seal. In the morning we see the seal and then the next thing we see is the judge sitting on the bench. The camera doesn't move. It's almost like the camera cuts off and the seal is on stand-by. It does the same thing when they are on break. The last thing you see normally is the judge and then then it cuts off and goes back to the seal. Again it doesn't look like the camera moves let alone zoom in at all.
Post by: wishingstar on October 03, 2011, 07:44:56 AM
Thanks for the photos.....it's such a help to me.
Blessings
Post by: Mish1981 on October 03, 2011, 07:52:39 AM
Court rooms have different set ups. Where I live the court room is set up just as you see for this trial. When looking at the judges bench the jury box is on the right hand side. The tables for both the defense and prosecution are correct. If you are sitting in on the trial you sit behind who you are there to support much like a wedding. If you are supporting the defense you sit on the left and the prosecution on the right. It was said on the first day that the Jackson family is sitting in the second row, which is why we won't see them in any photos. I think they are sitting either behind where the camera is set up or really close to it. The camera is right near the jury box so there is absolutely no chance to see them.
I hope that helps.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 03, 2011, 07:53:27 AM
I can’t hep but keep thinking about that gurney. It doesn’t look current for some reason. Maybe I’m looking too hard at that. But it looks somehow outdated. I’ve been trying to find pictures of the emerg room at that hospital to compare it. Might not be anything, but it just looks strange to me. WTF??
I have thought this for a little while now. sorta reminds me of a movie prop, an obselete gurney someone might get their hands on at an auction for a movie or something...
it is outdated. and incredibly basic, i must say. (I am in and around medical field)
Post by: Grace on October 03, 2011, 08:19:28 AM
It makes no sense to make a remake of the original CA seal and combine things from the US flag, like take the number of stars from there, put them there, make a whole potpurri of things and create the CA seal.
It makes a lot of sense to me. How do you wanna talk when you are "officially still dead"?
You have to invent some kind of language that may be understood even when not acquired as mothertongue.
We may be very accurate disciplined persons here (maybe not, but at least we are dealing with the matter with open eyes). Yet the press - and nobody was able to tell me the press had NOT copied the fake without questioning - does not seem to notice the "minor" details at all.
Even "official" documents with "minor" deviations were accepted as "true" and "real".
Identification of a patient from his driver's licence when he arrived in an ambulance as an emergency case appears to be normal. WHAT? afraid/
A 20 yrs younger Michael was photographed after he allegedly struggled for life during a night without any sleep and nobody asked why he had a freshly shaved face like a baby but. WHAT? afraid/
I remember when I noticed the first dots not fitting, I questioned the educational system and the training on the job for those responsible in CA for issuing / distributing these documents / publications. One may call it "that's life" or "that's sloppyness that should not happen but ya now we're all humans". But that's not the point here. The dots not fitting are too numerous, they are jumping into the eye, they are yelling, they are slapping in the face BUT STILL the public does not notice them.
Somebody has to proof-read the sketch for a remake of a seal.
Somebody has to review the mold for this seal in advance.
Somebody has to check the final seal.
If that is not undertaken, the process of production is simply not executed in a professional manner.
Would we assume from the sheer number of mistakes in this journey that half of CA has educational issues in misspelling and not being professional (even in a courtroom)? I don't think this would be an appropriate answer to why we are witnessing what we are witnessing. Quite the contrary, the dots not fitting are having systematic patterns that are getting obvious only in the course of time.
It is true that today's "Stars and Stripes" flag contains 50 stars. Still the one with 32 stars was used from July 4, 1837 – July 3, 1845 and it refers to the state of Michigan joining the union. I said there might be a link to looking into a U.S. wide affair since the seal error as such doesn't speak to me otherwise.
Michael "passed away" at the age of 50 not at 49 or 51. Now did that happen accidentially? I'd say we may rest assured that it was not an accident, right? Accidentially a 32nd star? The first item popping up when googling "32 stars" is the U.S. flag.
We are trying to figure out what could be behind the inconsistencies because experience tells us that there is a lot to explore and to see. When we are not right on one path doesn't mean we are completely wrong in moving forward. LOL I had that revealing moment many times during the last years and I am not afraid at all of any blind alleys. Au contraire. Very useful. Sorts it out.
;)
With the love albino/
(http://www.mindmapinspiration.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/thinking-outside-the-box-mindmap.jpg)
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 03, 2011, 08:24:27 AM
@MJFAN7 - that's not fair! I was well into hoaxy court mode, then I saw your new sig and I've lost it again !
sorryyy (:
:twisted: :lol: :lol:
I agree with MJFAN7 itis very distracting lol, I was in serious reading mode. LOL bangbang
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on October 03, 2011, 08:26:11 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 08:32:06 AM
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 08:41:11 AM
LOVE the diagram!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Grace on October 03, 2011, 08:51:20 AM
The voice recording doesn't sound like Michael. Nobody is convinced it's his voice. No forensics have been done on the recording.
All very good support for Hoax Court theory... however I am fairly convinced it's MJ's voice on the recording... but you're right that it doesn't sound like him, and we haven't heard anything about it being verified with voice forensics.
(I suppose the point there is they offer up voice forensics to help sell an album but not to verify evidence in a criminal trial. we will have to keep watching to see what happens when this evidence is submitted.)
Coming back to the voice recording:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGPBQ3eGO04[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGPBQ3eGO04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGPBQ3eGO04)
I think the screen itself is pretty interesting.
Date: May 10, 2009. 9:05 am.
What else happened on May 10, 2009?
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/10 (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/10)
This article made me think.
We remember that Michael "could not sleep" and that a major theme in this journey is "sleep", "being awake" and everything in between.
Quote
Memos shed light on CIA use of sleep deprivation
Though widely perceived as more effective and less objectionable than other interrogation methods, memos show it's harsher and more controversial than most realize. And it could be brought back.
May 10, 2009|Greg Miller WASHINGTON
As President Obama prepared last month to release secret memos on the CIA's use of severe interrogation methods, the White House fielded a flurry of last-minute appeals.
One came from former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden, who expressed disbelief that the administration was prepared to expose methods it might later decide it needed.(http://articles.latimes.com/images/pixel.gif)"Are you telling me that under all conditions of threat, you will never interfere with the sleep cycle of a detainee?" Hayden asked a top White House official, according to sources familiar with the exchange.
From the beginning, sleep deprivation had been one of the most important elements in the CIA's interrogation program, used to help break dozens of suspected terrorists, far more than the most violent approaches. And it is among the methods the agency fought hardest to keep.
The technique is now prohibited by President Obama's ban in January on harsh interrogation methods, although a task force is reviewing its use along with other interrogation methods the agency might employ in the future.
Because of its effectiveness -- as well as the perception that it was less objectionable than waterboarding, head-slamming or forced nudity -- sleep deprivation may be seen as a tempting technique to restore.
But the Justice Department memos released last month by Obama, as well as information provided by officials familiar with the program, indicate that the method, which involves forcing chained prisoners to stand, sometimes for days on end, was more controversial within the U.S. intelligence community than was widely known.
A CIA inspector general's report issued in 2004 was more critical of the agency's use of sleep deprivation than it was of any other method besides waterboarding, according to officials familiar with the document, because of how the technique was applied.
The prisoners had their feet shackled to the floor and their hands cuffed close to their chins, according to the Justice Department memos.
Detainees were clad only in diapers and not allowed to feed themselves. A prisoner who started to drift off to sleep would tilt over and be caught by his chains.
The memos said that more than 25 of the CIA's prisoners were subjected to sleep deprivation. At one point, the agency was allowed to keep prisoners awake for as long as 11 days; the limit was later reduced to just over a week.
According to the memos, medical personnel were to make sure prisoners weren't injured. But a 2007 Red Cross report on the CIA program said that detainees' wrists and ankles bore scars from their shackles.
When detainees could no longer stand, they could be laid on the prison floor with their limbs "anchored to a far point on the floor in such a manner that the arms cannot be bent or used for balance or comfort," a May 10, 2005, memo said.
"The position is sufficiently uncomfortable to detainees to deprive them of unbroken sleep, while allowing their lower limbs to recover from the effects of standing," it said.
In the Red Cross report, prisoners said they were also subjected to loud music and repetitive noise.
"I was kept sitting on a chair, shackled by hands and feet for two to three weeks," said suspected Al Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, the first prisoner captured by the CIA, according to the Red Cross report. "If I started to fall asleep, a guard would come and spray water in my face."
In the Justice Department memos, sleep deprivation was described as part of a "baseline" phase of interrogation, categorized as less severe than other "corrective" or "coercive" methods.
Within the CIA, sleep deprivation was seen as a method with the unique advantage of eroding prisoners' will to resist without causing lasting harm.
"Waterboarding was obviously the most controversial," said a former senior U.S. government official who was briefed extensively on CIA interrogation operations. But "sleep deprivation is probably the most effective thing they had going."
Facing congressional efforts in 2005 and 2006 to block the use of certain techniques, CIA lawyers and Bush administration officials lobbied to keep a core set of methods, including sleep deprivation.
In 2007, after a U.S. Supreme Court ruling compelled the White House to bring the CIA program into compliance with the Geneva Convention, President Bush signed an executive order that outlined detainees' rights to the "basic necessities of life." The order listed "adequate food and water, shelter from the elements, necessary clothing" and protection from extreme heat and cold. But it made no mention of sleep as a basic necessity.
Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said sleep deprivation multiplied the coercive power of other techniques that included face-slapping and confinement in small boxes.
"It was viewed as a tool that enabled all the others," said a former CIA official directly involved in the program. The former official, like others, described internal thinking on condition of anonymity.
The Justice Department memos also cited research that suggested sleep deprivation was not harmful.
"Experience with sleep deprivation shows that 'surprisingly, little seemed to go wrong with the subjects physically,' " said the May 10, 2005, Justice Department memo -- one of many instances in which government lawyers cited scientific papers in asserting that the program was safe.
But some authors of those studies have since said that the conclusions of their research were grossly misapplied.
James Horne, director of the Sleep Research Center at Loughborough University in Britain, said he was never consulted by U.S. officials and didn't know how his work was being used until the memos were released.
"My response was shocked concern," Horne said in an e-mail interview. Just because the pain of sleep deprivation "can't be measured in terms of physical injury or appearance . . . does not mean that the mental anguish is not as bad."
Horne said that it was dangerous for the CIA to extrapolate from independent research in which subjects had gone for as long as a week without sleep, voluntarily, and were free to eat, rest, watch television or leave the research facility at any time. By contrast, CIA prisoners were subjected to major additional stresses that risk physical and mental collapse.
"To claim that 180 hours is safe in these respects is nonsense," Horne wrote in a separate online posting. Even if sleep deprivation succeeded in getting prisoners to talk, he said, "I would doubt whether the state of mind would be able to produce credible information, unaffected by delusion, fantasy or suggestibility."
--
greg.miller@latimes.com
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/10/nation/na-interrogate10 (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/10/nation/na-interrogate10)
Getting back into my box.
Post by: Patricia on October 03, 2011, 10:04:20 AM
If the photo of the ambulance is actually false, then what about the testimony of Dr. Cooper? Paramedics could have closed his mouth and eyes of Michael. Why let he get to the hospital as well?
I really want to hear the testimony of the coroner, but I think it can be very confusing for us. They say that will show another picture of Michael before autopsy, where he is naked and covered his genitals.
I just wanted to highlight a point about the autopsy. They would not need search Michael's body in this way, examining the brain, spine, prostate, etc. ... The cause of death was known at the time of autopsy. It was enough to them to do a drug test for confirmation.
If Michael had died and if this autopsy were real, would once again be an outrage and an affront to Michael. I say this as someone who knows a little about the rules of autopsy.
Post by: Andrea on October 03, 2011, 10:30:53 AM
Going back to the 'no body' used, 'dummy', or 'real body' (of someone other than MJ) theories...and based only on what we've heard so far in trial (this, of course, may change as more witnesses are questioned and we hear even more discrepancies)...this is what we have so far:
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
While I have not ruled out the "real dead body" theory, for me it's unlikely. I remember reading back in July 2009 that Michael initially had 36 people "in on it". I can't remember where I read that or where that number came from, it could've been pulled from the air for all I know. But that could definitely be enough people to pull it off, that day. As the FBI are involved with some sort of sting, it's reasonable to think that these key people must follow the hoax/sting script and most likely signed confidentiality agreements. No one who testified false events can get in trouble, because the trial is not legit, the seal alone tells us that. But like I said, I won't rule out the real body, as I wasn't there and didn't see what happened (or didn't happen). Michael himself could've taken the ambulance ride then hopped out and headed straight for the airport.
Post by: wishingstar on October 03, 2011, 10:45:17 AM
I watched it over the weekend (thank you for posting it.....very much appreciated!) I caught what I understand her saying.....she was told there was a "witnessed arrest" made by Murray. She explained a "witnessed arrest" is when someone actually sees the patient stop breathing, the heart stops....basically goes into cardiac arrest.....it was referred to as a "critical event". How is it Murray could have done this? He was in the bathroom, so we are told he came back to Michael and wasn't he breathing. He couldn't have witnessed the "critical event". Did I miss something?
Just wondering before it gets going......thanks!
Blessings for a great day!
Post by: wishingstar on October 03, 2011, 10:46:54 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 10:53:04 AM
I'm also open to the 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory...just leaning more towards a 'real body' based on the 'story' being played out through witness testimony. If anything, I can see there having been both a 'dummy' and/or live MJ at some point (fake ambulance photo...'the other day')...and a 'real' deceased body on June 25th.
@WishingStar...yes, you heard correctly. Dr. Cooper testified that Murray told her he witnessed the arrest.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on October 03, 2011, 11:05:19 AM
3+9+7= 19 1+9=8
5+9=14 1+4=5
4+4=8
8+5+8= 21 (7+7+7)
Just fyi
Post by: PrincessMuffybear on October 03, 2011, 11:09:12 AM
Post by: finfin on October 03, 2011, 11:28:19 AM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20682.msg359570.html#msg359570
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob5sbMmzcfQ&feature=feedu
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob5sbMmzcfQ&feature=feedu [/youtube]
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 03, 2011, 11:38:37 AM
It could just be me but, if you pay attention to the seal before it starts in the morning or when ever they take a break, it doesn't look like they zoom in on the seal. In the morning we see the seal and then the next thing we see is the judge sitting on the bench. The camera doesn't move. It's almost like the camera cuts off and the seal is on stand-by. It does the same thing when they are on break. The last thing you see normally is the judge and then then it cuts off and goes back to the seal. Again it doesn't look like the camera moves let alone zoom in at all.
One more thing with the seal.....the background of it. The background we see on TV has a bunch of wooden lines/planks/boards...something behind it.......it's not a solid surface. Where is that background in the court? The walls I see behind the judge, around the room etc are solid. Maybe it's just one area that has all the lines? Seems odd it would be that way.......reminds me of "read between the lines"
Thanks for the photos.....it's such a help to me.
Blessings
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/blount-1.jpg)
It is not just you Mish1981 who noticed the camera not moving. That is what I have been saying also. wishingstar you are correct the background does not match. Thank you both for saying what I have been seeing. The pic I posted above is the still I took and only provided a twitpic link but I have figured out how to use photobucket. ;)
I wasn't trying to prove there was no seal behind the judge although there isn't one as you pointed out. If that was what I was saying I would have wrote it. I was referencing the wall PANELLING which is smooth in the screen grab from the court room. The panel wall background on the seal that the TV station puts up has individual slats. The exact same questions you presented to me can be asked of you to prove that this seal we see when the camera goes off is actually real and somewhere in the courtroom and or court building. Can you prove this is a hoax seal made by someone in MJ's camp? Can you prove it comes from somewhere else and is fed to the courtroom camera? bangbangLook at the background wall on the screen cap from today. http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full (http://twitpic.com/6t1clu/full) Panel pattern is different. I couldn't attach or upload to yfrog, sorry it's on twitpic. fresse/Im_convinced, how does the sting court theory explain the 32 stars on the seal? All other debate points aside, that by itself debunks Sting court as you have presented it. If it's not real then neither is court. If court isn't real the Prosecution isn't technically acting improperly. If the Prosecution isn't acting improperly, in your theory, there is no Sting. You've proved corruption in CA but it doesn't matter. It's not an official seal. No seal=no court. No court=no Sting.I think the picture that we see when the camera goes off when the jury is out is the TV stations design. I think the camera shuts off completely during breaks. I do not think it is the actual courtroom seal on the wall. You know how at the end of the broadcast there is the stripes of colors? Or like when a station shows a black screen with the wording stay tuned? ;)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/seals.png)
So?
So you're saying it's perfectly normal for every single network media channel that is live feeding from the court house to be displaying a fake seal during all court breaks every day in the midst of a real trial. Come on.
As far as the background, again, so? So I don't see a seal hanging on the wall in your twitpic. All you proved is that there is no seal hanging on the wall directly behind the judge. That was never in question.
How do you know it isn't hanging near the ceiling and that the upper wall of the courtroom isn't bearing this type of design? How do you know it isn't in the hallway outside of the courtroom? How do you know it isn't hanging in the front entrance of the court house? How do you know it isn't hanging on some DOME project set being fed live into the networks through a cable run through the courthouse's channel? But that's the point isn't it? Not where it's hanging... but why is it fake if this is an FBI Sting court? And how is it being displayed by all networks?
On the other hand, if this is a hoax court, it is fake because it displays for all to see the crucial dividing line between a hoax and a fraud. It prevents entrapment, ie trapping the media into believing MJ is really dead. We know he's not... they could know too, but they chose to look the other way. You can add the non-believer fans and the general public to this list as well.
Perhaps this is what Front meant when he talked about fake fans and tabloid associates. They are all in the same category; they refuse to see the truth that's right there in Front of their eyes, and they will be angry when he reveals. 32 stars protect MJ from being accused of entrapment.
Yes it appears that only one TV station is live and is feeding all the other stations.
http://www.trutv.com/about/insession/index.htmlQuoteIn Session Trial Footage Archive
The Leader in Trial Coverage
IN SESSION (previously Court TV) is the only television network to serve as a window into the American justice system. Programming consists of live coverage of criminal and civil trials from around the country, as well as expert analysis from the network's award-winning legal journalists. The network has covered more than 950 trials since its inception and is considered the leading media outlet for trial coverage by many in and out of the courtroom.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/about/insession/grab-trial_screenshots.jpg)
The Leader in Trial Content
With nearly 90,000 hours of raw courtroom footage, including many high-profile celebrity cases, IN SESSION (and previously as Court TV) has covered both criminal and civil trials. The archive contains courtroom action from opening statements to verdict and sentencing.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/ssi/sect/2.0/blogs/cnninsession/insession.header.jpg)QuoteAbout this blog
Your online home for HLN and In Session on truTV’s up-to-the minute, comprehensive coverage of the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Our anchors, analysts and producers are teaming up here for trial reporting and observations that stretch from what witnesses and attorneys are saying in the L.A. court room to what you’re saying in the office break room.
From opening statements to closing arguments, you won’t miss a bit of powerful testimony as a California jury weighs whether Murray is to blame for the death of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.
Be sure to tune in to In Session on tru TV from 9 a.m. – 3 p.m. ET and HLN ALL day for LIVE wall-to-wall coverage and key analysis of the trial.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 11:44:40 AM
I noticed that with the OJ trial footage (except back then it said CourtTV). No icon, it's not from In Session. Not from In Session it isn't official court TV.
Post by: Patricia on October 03, 2011, 12:26:53 PM
Going back to the 'no body' used, 'dummy', or 'real body' (of someone other than MJ) theories...and based only on what we've heard so far in trial (this, of course, may change as more witnesses are questioned and we hear even more discrepancies)...this is what we have so far:
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
While I have not ruled out the "real dead body" theory, for me it's unlikely. I remember reading back in July 2009 that Michael initially had 36 people "in on it". I can't remember where I read that or where that number came from, it could've been pulled from the air for all I know. But that could definitely be enough people to pull it off, that day. As the FBI are involved with some sort of sting, it's reasonable to think that these key people must follow the hoax/sting script and most likely signed confidentiality agreements. No one who testified false events can get in trouble, because the trial is not legit, the seal alone tells us that. But like I said, I won't rule out the real body, as I wasn't there and didn't see what happened (or didn't happen). Michael himself could've taken the ambulance ride then hopped out and headed straight for the airport.
I remember reading something like this in the blog of Derek Clontz in 2009. But it seems that this blog was a fake. So I do not know if it's true, but I always thought that makes perfect sense.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 03, 2011, 12:27:52 PM
Thanks ForstAMoon!
Another thing for people who have access to HLN, Dr. Drew will be discussing the conflicting stories surrounding his death and the conflicting testimonies (finally).
Im surprised no one has mentioned the doctor who appeared on his show last week. He was Michaels personal doctor and friend when Michael was in Ireland. He had alot of interesting things to say including that his death doesn't "make sense". And he mentioned not wanting to sound like a "conspiracy theorist" but he noticed what we did long ago regarding the coincidence with the way he died and the insurance policy etc. He also mentioned that Michael lied and exaggerated his illness' and drug addiction to the media for other purposes he never mentioned. He sounded like he was either "in the know" or he reads this site. :lol:
I have watched that; in fact my TV on HLN all day along plus the live trial we have.
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 03, 2011, 12:39:27 PM
Post by: ImperfectAngel on October 03, 2011, 01:14:28 PM
Post by: reveron1958 on October 03, 2011, 02:15:15 PM
"This is the courtroom audio feed"........aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh /scream/
bangbang bangbang bangbang /judge/
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 02:45:58 PM
http://www.ehow.com/facts_7374085_proper-u_s_-flag-county-courtrooms.html (http://www.ehow.com/facts_7374085_proper-u_s_-flag-county-courtrooms.html)
Quote
Flag etiquette dictates the proper display of the U.S. flag. The proper method for displaying a U.S. flag is covered under the Flag Code. The rules contained therein apply for flags flown in all manner of configurations, from streetlights to courtrooms. The flag must always be displayed with the stars at the top left.
- Correct Placement
All U.S. flags are subject to the same rules of etiquette regardless of where they are flown. The flag should always hold a position of honor, and in a county courtroom it should be displayed to the right of the judge's bench.
It cannot be simply off screen. The (presumed) California Flag is visible to the audience's right of the witness box. The US flag is properly always positioned to the flag's right of any other displayed flags. This is irrefutable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code
Quote
http://www.lifescript.com/Life/Timeout/At-home/The_Flag_Code_Proper_Flag_Etiquette.aspx
- When on display, the flag is accorded the place of honor, always positioned to its own right. Place it to the speaker's right, the audience's left, in a staging area or sanctuary. Other flags should be to the speaker's left.
- The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of states, localities, or societies are grouped for display.
- [/l][/l]
Quote
With other Flags - When the flag is displayed in a courtroom or in a hall against a wall with crossed staffs, the country’s flag should always be on the right (the flag’s right, not the viewer’s right) and the country’s flag pole should be on top of the second flag.[/list]
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 03, 2011, 02:47:04 PM
That's a good point there Im_convinced, where's the "In Session" icon on the livestream?What point is good? Before I go and get video to show the In Session Icon on videos I will say the live video feed we see on the site here is from ABC 7 so they do not need to advertise In Session since they have leased the live footage. Be back soon.
I noticed that with the OJ trial footage (except back then it said CourtTV). No icon, it's not from In Session. Not from In Session it isn't official court TV.
Edited to add: The info is on the blog below. HLN is a sister station to In Session and the CNN blog is also part of it. tru TV is stating it has the trial footage archive. If you go to the link you will see the license agreement form or an option to buy the footage. I couldn't find any video on youtube with the In Session logo but there is plenty with the HLN logo and I think people went with that station because it has less commercials and goes longer. If you read the blog info it says the times they are on.
About the flag, today the camera went wide shot and the flag could be seen for a brief moment. The flag is on the judges left side when we look at him or his right side from his pov.
http://www.trutv.com/about/insession/index.htmlQuoteIn Session Trial Footage Archive
The Leader in Trial Coverage
IN SESSION (previously Court TV) is the only television network to serve as a window into the American justice system. Programming consists of live coverage of criminal and civil trials from around the country, as well as expert analysis from the network's award-winning legal journalists. The network has covered more than 950 trials since its inception and is considered the leading media outlet for trial coverage by many in and out of the courtroom.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/about/insession/grab-trial_screenshots.jpg)
The Leader in Trial Content
With nearly 90,000 hours of raw courtroom footage, including many high-profile celebrity cases, IN SESSION (and previously as Court TV) has covered both criminal and civil trials. The archive contains courtroom action from opening statements to verdict and sentencing.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/ssi/sect/2.0/blogs/cnninsession/insession.header.jpg)QuoteAbout this blog
Your online home for HLN and In Session on truTV’s up-to-the minute, comprehensive coverage of the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Our anchors, analysts and producers are teaming up here for trial reporting and observations that stretch from what witnesses and attorneys are saying in the L.A. court room to what you’re saying in the office break room.
From opening statements to closing arguments, you won’t miss a bit of powerful testimony as a California jury weighs whether Murray is to blame for the death of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.
Be sure to tune in to In Session on tru TV from 9 a.m. – 3 p.m. ET and HLN ALL day for LIVE wall-to-wall coverage and key analysis of the trial.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 02:49:39 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 03:03:41 PM
Ps. Whoever it was from chat today who pointed out the lack of flag, please identify yourself if you would like credit for the observation. I honestly don't remember who it was. I do remember it was a brilliant observation.
Yes, and maybe the DA and judge would not notice the extra star in the seal, but that missing flag must ring a bell. :lol:
Post by: Grace on October 03, 2011, 03:26:50 PM
Gathered from chat, there is no United States flag visible in the courtroom. There should be a US flag displayed in every courtroom in the country.
In this picture, the flag is there:
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/09/27/murray-trial/#/25 (http://framework.latimes.com/2011/09/27/murray-trial/#/25)
Just where is the jury's box in this room - right side beneath the court reporter?
Shouldn't the prosecution and defense be talking to the jury and not to the judge?
Would the room look like this?
(http://www.sdcourt.ca.gov/pls/portal/docs/1/591072.GIF)
This is giving some interior photographs from the Clara Shortridge Foltz court house:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/sF_zlJFQvsw5-QMZ3lJmWw?userid=xvxlhuw8VuhvINSYux1Ivg (http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/sF_zlJFQvsw5-QMZ3lJmWw?userid=xvxlhuw8VuhvINSYux1Ivg)
I wonder whether the jury will have this magazine rack in the jury gathering room as well:
(http://s3-media2.px.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/G1d3Zk3CyR6-k5vcs6iXEQ/l.jpg)
The L.A. Times has some very good shots in their photo gallery.
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/09/27/murray-trial/#/0 (http://framework.latimes.com/2011/09/27/murray-trial/#/0)
and a great witness list for those giving up on faces and names:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/michael-jackson-trial/la-me-conrad-murray-witnesses-whos-who,0,744052.htmlstory (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/michael-jackson-trial/la-me-conrad-murray-witnesses-whos-who,0,744052.htmlstory)
Post by: PrincessMuffybear on October 03, 2011, 03:52:24 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 03, 2011, 04:06:10 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7RSO--KY08&feature=share[/youtube]
Post by: PureLove on October 03, 2011, 04:33:16 PM
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
Post by: Andrea on October 03, 2011, 04:37:45 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 03, 2011, 04:54:26 PM
Quote
About the flag, today the camera went wide shot and the flag could be seen for a brief moment. The flag is on the judges left side when we look at him or his right side from his pov.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/flag-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/CAflag2-1.jpg)
Edited to add the other side of the courtroom with the CA state flag.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 03, 2011, 05:02:36 PM
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
Besides what ever equipment is on the bed it's hard to tell because the angle is different. What I have noticed is the pillow at the end of the bed is placed different.
Post by: PureLove on October 03, 2011, 05:25:19 PM
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/414343092.jpg)
Couldn't resist as this is just too eerie...
Post by: PureLove on October 03, 2011, 05:29:15 PM
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
Besides what ever equipment is on the bed it's hard to tell because the angle is different. What I have noticed is the pillow at the end of the bed is placed different.
The blue pad and the blue tube are not in the trial pic. And the black bag in the trial pic is not in the first pic. There's also no air pump in the trial pic. :mrgreen:
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 06:16:20 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 06:27:59 PM
The seal, the once absent flags appearing, the inconsistencies in testimonies, Conrad's bald spot lolol/ are all so obvious.
When you tell the truth, there are no questions. In a movie, you wonder why things are in one place and in another shot they are in another place. Or in this case about the flags, why they were never there in the first place.
And the seal makes me think of Hollywood movies: the actor's number starts with 555-xxxx when '555' telephone numbers do not exist in real life. lol
There should be more non believers joining us here. I wonder how lost they feel in all of this.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 06:33:09 PM
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
Obvious question:
Kai Chase went on and on about how she made all sorts of home made juices for MJ of all different kinds, that he liked to have homemade juices on hand all the time so she made extra to keep around...
...so why's he got a Naked© juice bottle by the death bed.
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 03, 2011, 06:33:53 PM
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 06:39:02 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 03, 2011, 06:40:42 PM
They gave us a view of the flag by popular demand it seemed.(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/trash-1.jpg)
Yea there was alot of freaky shit today. The music and the voice. Then the break to the lobby?
In this chat session I was omgwtf. This is an epic trial. OMG! lolol/ WTF??
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 06:42:12 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 06:46:27 PM
TS, I think we can rest the Hoax Court case.
Post by: Grace on October 03, 2011, 06:52:21 PM
It is low quality video technique IMO.
Check out the lousy frayed border of the stripes motive.
No professional carpenter would work like this.
And why use a stripes motive around the seal you could just hang on the wall which is neatly made of wood?
The stripes are not in the room. But they are added because they have a meaning IMO.
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 03, 2011, 06:55:25 PM
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
These are the things I see different...
1. The walls are different...in the old pic it looks like there is wall paper or some kind of pattern...and in the new pic the walls are white.
2. The end tables/ bedside tables look different
3. In the old pic I do not see any lamps....but in the new pic you see 3 of them
4. In the old pic there is a landline phone on the bed side table and yet in the new pic I don't see it there
5. In the old pic there is the air bag used to pump air through breathing tube...again in the new pic there is no blue bag at the foot of the bed on the floor.
That's all I've found so far...except the ones someone already pointed out...the blue pad and the pillow being different. bearhug
Post by: MissG on October 03, 2011, 07:05:46 PM
Murder+corruption in Vegas? are we going back again to the doctors with license to deal with drugs?
If Murray could "get" propofol bottles that way, any doctor could. If Murray could have a clinic with apparently volunteers, meaning non legally employed, and lack proper equipment...any doctor could.
On the other hand we also have incompetent medical personell making wrong diagnoses and taking wrong decisions at the hospitals or when calling for emergency.
Another thing it came to my mind as well. If Michael would have been intubated via trachea (opening a hole on the front part of the neck) imagine the outcome for his profession...a singer who´s voice is not any longer.
Post by: TheSecret on October 03, 2011, 07:18:00 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 03, 2011, 07:33:31 PM
Let's circle the differences we see in Michael's "dead" bed. :lol:
Remember the one we saw before the trial and remember the one that was shown at the trial? Here are both of them. Did they tidy the room to show it at the trial? geek/
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/413263161.jpg)
(http://s1.proxy05.twitpic.com/photos/large/413275508.jpg)
These are the things I see different...
1. The walls are different...in the old pic it looks like there is wall paper or some kind of pattern...and in the new pic the walls are white.
2. The end tables/ bedside tables look different
3. In the old pic I do not see any lamps....but in the new pic you see 3 of them
4. In the old pic there is a landline phone on the bed side table and yet in the new pic I don't see it there
5. In the old pic there is the air bag used to pump air through breathing tube...again in the new pic there is no blue bag at the foot of the bed on the floor.
That's all I've found so far...except the ones someone already pointed out...the blue pad and the pillow being different. bearhug
/bravo/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 07:46:01 PM
They kept talking about the 4mg of Ativan (Lorazepam), and as far as I understood it, they said it was quite a heavy dose, but 4mg is a normal dose prescribed for insomnia. It was also administered with 3 hours in between, so actually it was 2 x 2mg. I will post an old blog later on where the timeline and the meds can be found.
Dr. Nguyen has said "Time was not on Mr. Jackson's side" 3 times. I thought it was a weird coice of words.
She also made it VERY clear (lol) that time was very important and that you have to act very quick. Yet she also said that she wasn't paged by Dr. Cooper until 1:34 pm, and she arrived at the ER at 1:35 pm. MJ was 'in the hospital' for half an hour already. That doesn't seem very quick to me.
She also said she knew it was MJ, because she was told it was a VIP called Michael Jackson, and she called that a code... WTF??
A code? I thought the names 'Trauma, Gerschwin' and 'Soule, Shawn' were codes. Michael Jackson is hardly a code, is it?
I also think it's strange we get to hear all the phone numbers. Aren't they bleeped out normally? And how can they submit self-made 'phone records' as evidence? I saw they made a mistake in them at the opening statements, and again today. They are not the official records, they were made by the prosecution. That's not evidence.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 08:06:13 PM
Drugs found on Mike’s night table:
Diazepam (Valium) -> benzodiazepine
Diazepam, first marketed as Valium by Hoffmann-La Roche.
It is commonly used for treating anxiety, insomnia, seizures, muscle spasms, restless legs syndrome, alcohol withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal, and Ménière’s disease. It may also be used before certain medical procedures (such as endoscopies) to reduce tension and anxiety, and in some surgical procedures to induce amnesia.
Dosing:
Depending upon severity of symptoms: 2-10 mg, 2-4 times daily.
Adverse reactions:
Incontinence, changes in libido, urinary retention.
Somnolence, Suppression of REM sleep, Impaired motor function(Impaired coordination Impaired balance, Dizziness and nausea), Depression, Impaired learning, Anterograde amnesia (especially pronounced in higher doses), Cognitive deficits, Reflex tachycardia.
Tamsulosin (Flomax)
Tamsulosin is primarily used for benign prostatic hyperplasia, but is sometimes used for the passage of kidney stones by the same mechanism of smooth muscle relaxation via alpha antagonism.
Dosing: Flomax capsules 0.4 mg once daily is recommended as the dose for the treatment of the signs and symptoms of BPH. It should be administered approximately one-half hour following the same meal each day. For those patients who fail to respond to the 0.4 mg dose after two to four weeks of dosing, the dose of flomax capsules can be increased to 0.8 mg once daily.
Adverse effects:
Immunologic: It contains a sulfa moiety, thus causing typical reactions to sulfa drugs.
Ophthalmologic: Patients taking tamsulosin are prone to a complication known as floppy iris syndrome during cataract surgery. Adverse outcomes of the surgery are greatly reduced by the surgeon’s prior knowledge of the patient’s history with this drug, and thus having the option of alternative techniques.
Tamsulosin can cause males to experience retrograde ejaculation. Occasionally, tamsulosin can cause a drop in blood pressure, rarely resulting in dizziness or fainting. Other reported side effects include headache, dizziness, nasal congestion, and palpitations.
Lorazepam (Ativan) -> benzodiazepine
Lorazepam, initially marketed under the brand names Ativan and Temesta, is a benzodiazepine drug with short to medium duration of action. It has all five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects: anxiolytic, amnesic, sedative/hypnotic, anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant. It is a powerful anxiolytic, and, since its introduction in 1977, lorazepam’s principal use has been in treating the symptom of anxiety. Among benzodiazepines, lorazepam has a relatively high addictive potential.
Dosing:
The dose of lorazepam is tailored to the patient’s needs. The usual dose for treating anxiety is 2-3 mg/day given in two or three divided doses. Insomnia is treated with 2-4 mg given at bedtime.
Adverse effects:
Any of the five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects possessed by lorazepam (sedative/hypnotic, muscle relaxant, anxiolytic, amnesic and anticonvulsant) may be considered as “adverse effects” or “side-effects” if unwanted.
Paradoxical effects, Suicidality, Amnesic effects.
Temazepam (Restoril) -> benzodiazepine
Temazepam (marketed under brand names Normison, Temtabs, Euhypnos, Restoril, Remestan, Tenox and Norkotral) is an intermediate-acting 3-hydroxy benzodiazepine. It is generally prescribed for the short-term treatment of sleeplessness in patients who have difficulty maintaining sleep. Temazepam is not effective for induction of sleep. In addition, temazepam has anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), anticonvulsant, and skeletal muscle relaxant properties.
Dosing:
The recommended dose of temazepam when treating insomnia is typically 15 mg, taken at bedtime just before trying to go to sleep. For elderly people or people with other medical problems, the recommended dose is lower — 7.5 mg taken at bedtime.
Adverse effects:
Side effects typical of hypnotic benzodiazepines are related to CNS depression, and include somnolence, dizziness, fatigue, ataxia, headache, lethargy, impairment of memory and learning, increased reaction time and impairment of motor functions (including coordination problems), slurred speech, decreased physical performance, numbed emotions, reduced alertness, muscle weakness, blurred vision (in higher doses), and inattention.
Clonazepam (Klonopin) -> benzodiazepine
Clonazepam is a benzodiazepine derivative with highly potent anticonvulsant, muscle relaxant, and anxiolytic properties. It is marketed by Roche under the trade-names Klonopin in the United States, and Ravotril in Chile. Other names like Rivotril or Rivatril are known throughout the large majority of the rest of the world. Clonazepam is a chlorinated derivative of nitrazepam and a nitrobenzodiazepine like nitrazepam.
Dosing:
Clonazepam must be introduced gradually, and a low starting dose is advisable, such as 0.5 to 1.5 mg/day, which may be taken all at once or divided into two or three doses. The dosage can be increased by 0.5 to 1 mg every 3 to 7 days. The maximum daily dose recommended is 10 mg. In a survey of epilepsy specialists, most recommended no more than 4 mg per day and usually prescribed no more than 2 mg per day.
Adverse effects:
Common
* Drowsiness
* Impairment of cognition, judgment, or memory
* Irritability and aggression
* Psychomotor agitation
* Lack of motivation
* Loss of libido
* Impaired motor function
o Impaired coordination
o Impaired balance
o Dizziness
* Cognitive Impairments
o Increased Sleepwalking (If used in treatment of sleepwalking)
o Auditory Hallucinations
o Short-term memory loss
o Anterograde amnesia (common with higher doses)
* Some users report hangover-like symptoms of being drowsy, having a headache, being sluggish, and being irritable after waking up if the medication is taken before sleep. This is likely the result of the medication’s long half-life, which continues to affect the user after waking up, as well as its disruption of the REM cycle.
Occasional
* Serious dysphoria
* Thrombocytopenia
* Serious psychological and psychiatric side-effects
* Induction of seizures or increased frequency of seizures
* Personality changes
* Behavioural disturbances
Rare
* Psychosis
* Incontinence
* Liver damage
* Paradoxical behavioural disinhibition (most frequently in children, the elderly, and in persons with developmental disabilities)
o Rage
o Excitement
o Impulsivity
Long term effects
The long term effects of clonazepam can include; depression, disinhibition and sexual dysfunction.
Trazodone (Desyrl)
Trazodone (Desyrel, Beneficat, Deprax, Desirel, Molipaxin, Thombran, Trazorel, Trialodine, Trittico) is a psychoactive drug of the piperazine and triazolopyridine chemical classes that has anti depressant anxiolytic, and hypnotic properties. It has been advertised that its therapeutic benefits become noticeable within the first week of administration. Trazodone has considerably less prominent anticholinergic (dry mouth, constipation, tachycardia) and sympatholytic (hypotension, sexual dysfunction consisting of erectile dysfunction and anorgasmia) side effects in comparison to most of the tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) and tetracyclic antidepressants (TeCAs).
Dosing:
Treatment should be started with low initial doses of 25 to 50 mg daily in divided doses or in an evening single dose. The dose may be increased slowly to a maximum of 300 mg daily in ambulatory patients and to 600 mg daily in hospitalized patients. Geriatric and emaciated patients should begin with 25 mg daily; this dose may be slowly increased to 300 mg. The duration of treatment should be at least one month. A 50 mg dose is recommended when using Trazodone as a sleep aid.
Adverse effects:
The most common adverse reactions encountered are drowsiness, nausea/vomiting, headache and dry mouth. Adverse reactions reported include the following:
*Behavioral
Drowsiness, fatigue, lethargy, psychomotor retardation, lightheadedness, dizziness, difficulty in concentration, confusion, uncontrollable laughter, sex drive increase.
*Neurological
Tremor, headache, ataxia, migraine, akathisia, muscle stiffness, slurred speech, slowed speech, vertigo, tinnitus, tingling of extremities, paresthesia, weakness, complex partial seizures, and rarely, impaired speech, muscle twitching, numbness, dystonia, euphoria, and involuntary movements.
*Autonomic
Dry or numb mouth, blurred vision, priapism, diplopia, miosis, nasal congestion, constipation, sweating, urinary retention, increased urinary frequency and incontinence.
*Cardiovascular
Hypotension, tachycardia, palpitations, shortness of breath, apnea, syncope, arrhythmias, prolonged P-R interval, atrial fibrillation, bradycardia, ventricular ectopic activity (including ventricular tachycardia), myocardial infarction, and cardiac arrest.
Tizanidine (Zanaflex)
Tizanidine (brandnames Zanaflex, Sirdalud) is a drug that is used as a muscle relaxant. It is a centrally acting a-2 adrenergic agonist. It is used to treat the spasms, cramping, and tightness of muscles caused by medical problems such as multiple sclerosis, spastic diplegia, back pain, or certain other injuries to the spine or central nervous system. It is also prescribed off-label for migraine headaches, as a sleep aid, and as an anticonvulsant. It is also prescribed for some symptoms of fibromyalgia.
Dosing:
To minimize side effects, begin with a dosage of 4 milligrams, then increase the dose gradually. Doses of 8 milligrams provide relief for most people. No more than 3 doses should be taken each 24 hours. The maximum dose per day is 36 milligrams.
Adverse effects:
Tizanidine use occasionally causes drug induced liver injury. In controlled clinical studies, approximately 5% of patients treated with Zanaflex had elevations of liver function tests (ALT, AST) to greater than 3 times the upper limit of normal (or 2 times if baseline levels were elevated). Do not use tizanidine at a time when muscle tone is needed to assure safe balance and movement for certain activities.
Administered on June 25th:
01.30: 10mg tablet of Valium.
Diazepam, first marketed as Valium by Hoffmann-La Roche.
It is commonly used for treating anxiety, insomnia, seizures, muscle spasms, restless legs syndrome, alcohol withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal, and Ménière’s disease. It may also be used before certain medical procedures (such as endoscopies) to reduce tension and anxiety, and in some surgical procedures to induce amnesia.
Dosing:
Depending upon severity of symptoms: 2-10 mg, 2-4 times daily.
Adverse reactions:
Incontinence, changes in libido, urinary retention.
Somnolence, Suppression of REM sleep, Impaired motor function(Impaired coordination Impaired balance, Dizziness and nausea), Depression, Impaired learning, Anterograde amnesia (especially pronounced in higher doses), Cognitive deficits, Reflex tachycardia.
02.00: 2mg Lorazepam (Ativan) after dilution, into IV.
Lorazepam, initially marketed under the brand names Ativan and Temesta, is a benzodiazepine drug with short to medium duration of action. It has all five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects: anxiolytic, amnesic, sedative/hypnotic, anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant. It is a powerful anxiolytic, and, since its introduction in 1977, lorazepam’s principal use has been in treating the symptom of anxiety. Among benzodiazepines, lorazepam has a relatively high addictive potential.
Dosing:
The dose of lorazepam is tailored to the patient’s needs. The usual dose for treating anxiety is 2-3 mg/day given in two or three divided doses. Insomnia is treated with 2-4 mg given at bedtime.
Adverse effects:
Any of the five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects possessed by lorazepam (sedative/hypnotic, muscle relaxant, anxiolytic, amnesic and anticonvulsant) may be considered as “adverse effects”; or “side-effects” if unwanted.
Paradoxical effects, Suicidality, Amnesic effects.
03.00: 2 mg Midazolam (Veresed) after dilution, into IV.
Midazolam, marketed in English-speaking countries under brand names Dormicum, Hypnovel, Midacum and Versed) is an ultra short-acting benzodiazepine derivative. It has potent anxiolytic, amnestic, hypnotic, anticonvulsant, skeletal muscle relaxant, and sedative properties. Midazolam is water-soluble and fat-soluble in physiologic pH. Freely soluble in alcohol and acetone. It is considered an ultra short-acting benzodiazepine, with an elimination half-life of about 2 hours. It is used in some countries for the short term treatment of insomnia and in many countries as a premedication before surgery. It is therefore a very useful drug to use for short minor procedures such as dental extraction.
Dosing:
Initial dose: 1-2 mg
Additional doses: 1 mg administered at 2-minute intervals
Onset of action: 1-2 minutes
Peak effect: 3-4 minutes
Duration of effect: 15-80 minutes
Adverse effects:
Residual ‘hangover’ effects after nighttime administration of midazolam such as sleepiness, impaired psychomotor and cognitive functions may persist into the next day which may impair the ability of users to drive safely and increase risks of falls and hip fractures. Confusion and amnesia are reported with midazolam. Midazolam has been known to cause a paradoxical reaction in susceptible individuals, a well-documented complication with benzodiazapines. When this occurs, the individual may experience anxiety, involuntary movements, aggressive or violent behavior, uncontrollable crying or verbalization, and other similar effects. This seems to be related to the altered state of consciousness or disinhibition produced by the drug. Some patients may respond to as little as 1 mg. No more than 1.5 mg should be given over a period of no less than 2 minutes.
05.00: 2 mg Lorazepam (Ativan), after dilution, into IV. See above.
07.30: 2mg of Midazolam (Versed), after dilution, into IV. See above.
10.40: 25 mg of Propofol (Diprivan), diluted with Lidocaine (Xylocaine), via IV drip.
Propofol (INN, marketed as Diprivan by AstraZeneca) is a short-acting, intravenously administered hypnotic agent. Its uses include the induction and maintenance of general anesthesia, sedation for mechanically ventilated adults, and procedural sedation. Propofol is also commonly used in veterinary medicine. Propofol is approved for use in more than 50 countries, and generic versions are available.
Chemically, propofol is unrelated to barbiturates, and has largely replaced sodium thiopental (Pentothal) for induction of anesthesia as recovery from propofol is more rapid and “clear” as compared to thiopental. Propofol is not considered an analgesic, so opioids such as fentanyl may be combined with propofol to alleviate pain.[1] Due to its amnestic effects and appearance as a white liquid, propofol has been humorously dubbed “milk of amnesia” by medical professionals.
Dosing:
Anesthesia induction, [healthy adults
Dose: 2-2.5 mg/kg IV given as 40 mg q10sec until induction onset
Anesthesia maintenance, [healthy adults
Dose: 0.1-0.2 mg/kg/min IV; Alt: 25-50 mg IV prn
Monitored anesthesia care induction
[100-150 mcg/kg/min IV x3-5min]
Alt: 50 mcg/kg IV x1 over 3-5min, then maint. Infusion
Monitored anesthesia care maintenance
[25-75 mcg/kg/min IV]
Alt: 10-20 mg IV prn; Info: avoid bolus doses and reduce dose 20% in elderly, debilitated, neurosurgical, or ASA P3-P4 pts
Adverse effects:
Aside from low blood pressure (mainly through vasodilation) and transient apnea following induction doses, one of propofol’s most frequent side effects is pain on injection, especially in smaller veins. This pain can be mitigated by pretreatment with lidocaine. Patients show great variability in their response to propofol, at times showing profound sedation with small doses. A more serious but rare side effect is dystonia. Mild myoclonic movements are common, as with other intravenous hypnotic agents. Propofol appears to be safe for use in porphyria, and has not been known to trigger malignant hyperpyrexia.
It has been reported that the euphoria caused by propofol is unlike other sedation agents,“I even remember my first experience using propofol: a young woman who was emerging from a MAC anesthesia looked at me as though I were a masked Brad Pitt and told me that she felt simply wonderful” —C.F. Ward, M.D.
Propofol has reportedly induced priapism in some individuals.
After Mike stopped breathing:
0.2 mg of Flumanezil (Anexate) was administered once.
Flumazenil (Anexate), in affidavid listed as Flumanezil 
Flumazenil, a specific benzodiazepine-receptor antagonist, is indicated for the complete or partial reversal of the sedative effects of benzodiazepines and may be used in situations when an overdose with a benzodiazepine is known or suspected. Prior to the administration of flumazenil, necessary measures should be instituted to secure airway, ventilation and intravenous access. Flumazenil is intended as an adjunt to, not as a substitute for, proper management of benzodiazepine overdose. Patients treated with flumazenil should be monitored to resedation, respiratory depression and other residual benzodiazepine effects for an appropriate period after treatment. The prescriber should be aware of a risk of seizure in association with flumazenil treatment, particularly in long-term benzodiazepine users and in cyclic antidepressant overdose.
Dosing:
The recommended dose for adults is 0,2ml every 1–2 minutes until the effect is seen, to a maximum of 3 mg per hour. The onset of action is rapid and usually effects are seen within one to two minutes. The peak effect is seen at six to ten minutes.
Drugs found via autopsy:
Propofol (see above)
Lorazepam (see above)
Midazolam (see above)
Diazepam (see above)
Lidocaine
Lidocaine (INN) or lignocaine (former BAN) is a common local anesthetic and antiarrhythmic drug. Lidocaine is used topically to relieve itching, burning and pain from skin inflammations, injected as a dental anesthetic, and in minor surgery.
Dosing:
Unknown, in this case Propofol was diluted with Lidocaine.
Adverse effects:
Systemic exposure to excessive quantities of lidocaine mainly result in central nervous system (CNS) and cardiovascular effects – CNS effects usually occur at lower blood plasma concentrations and additional cardiovascular effects present at higher concentrations, though cardiovascular collapse may also occur with low concentrations. CNS effects may include CNS excitation (nervousness, tingling around the mouth (also known as circumoral paraesthesia), tinnitus, tremor, dizziness, blurred vision, seizures) followed by depression, and with increasingly heavier exposure: drowsiness, loss of consciousness, respiratory depression and apnoea). Cardiovascular effects include hypotension, bradycardia, arrhythmias, and/or cardiac arrest – some of which may be due to hypoxemia secondary to respiratory depression.
Ephedrine
Ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant used to treat breathing problems (as a bronchodilator), nasal congestion (as a decongestant), low blood pressure problems (orthostatic hypotension), or myasthenia gravis. Ephedrine stimulates fatburning and increases alertness and activity of the body. Ephedrine increases the energy and concentration for 6 to 10 hours. The energy released will inhibited the appetite. Ephedrine can also be used for asthma, hay fever and colds.
Dosing:
For prescription ephedrine, do not exceed 150 mg per day in adults.
Adverse effects:
Adverse drug reactions (ADRs) are more common with systemic administration (e.g. injection or oral administration) compared to topical administration (e.g. nasal instillations). ADRs associated with ephedrine therapy include:
Cardiovascular: tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias, angina pectoris, vasoconstriction with hypertension
Dermatological: flushing, sweating, acne vulgaris
Gastrointestinal: anorexia, nausea
Genitourinary: diuresis (increased urination) due to increased blood flow (difficulty urinating is not uncommon, as alpha-agonists such as ephedrine constrict the internal urethral sphincter, mimicking the effects of sympathetic nervous system stimulation)
Nervous system: restlessness, confusion, insomnia, mild euphoria, mania/hallucinations (rare except in previously existing psychiatric conditions), delusions, formication (may be possible, but lacks documented evidence) paranoia, hostility, panic, agitation
Respiratory: dyspnea, pulmonary edema
Miscellaneous: dizziness, headache, tremor, hyperglycemic reactions
The approved maximum daily dosage of ephedrine for use as a bronchodilator is 150 mg, as specified on the packaging of the bronchodilator and expectorant combination, Bronkaid, made by Bayer pharmaceuticals.
Overdose can lead to death, although the approved dose is not likely to cause severe reactions when used as directed.
http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/the-dogs-the-meds-the-mess-the-math-part-2/Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 03, 2011, 08:15:43 PM
So unfortunately my daughter became seriously ill last night ( she is a type 1 diabetic) so we were in the ER for 5 hours and then the ICU.
While in the ER I happened to take a picture of her bed
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0761.jpg">
So i started talking to an EMT that has been on the job for 20 years. I did not mention the Jackson case, I told him I was doing "research".
He proved to me that what the video suggests is absolutely TRUE.
Stryker stopped producing and selling the Renascence (sp) models back in early 2002/2003. As of 2005, ALL hospitals switched over to the new models. Why?
Well one, after a 10 year lifespan, they become outdated. Plus there were certain features on the older models that had to be updated due to safety reasons. ERS and Ambulances have not used the older models since late 2003 and you WILL NOT find them anywhere in hospitals because of safety concerns.
he told me maybe a nursing home might have a small few because of budget issues and they are commonly used in homes for "hospice" care, but no longer in emergency rooms or transport.
So now we know that video about the autopsy photo is in fact REAL , the photo is a fake and not taken in 2009.
Now while sitting in the ICU, we were watching the trial and what caught our eye was the girl who worked in Conrad's office. She was NOT licensed. None of the girls who worked in his office were. No nursing school, no license, nothing...we found that rather odd and in fact it's against the law for someone who is NOT licensed to do triage...even if you are a resident or still attending nursing school, you must be accompanied by someone who is licensed.
Another one that caught my eye was the doctor or surgeon ( the Asian woman)...her "expertise" had a few of our nurses laughing hysterically because she couldn't give clear and precise answers to time and how much medication one should be giving a patient for certain reasons. They were all questioning if she was a REAL doctor or reading from a script! And we never discussed the hoax at ALL in my daughter's room. So this impression coming from board certified doctors made me think, who else thinks the same thing?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 03, 2011, 08:24:32 PM
I bet we will find Waldo though! WTF?? OMG! lolol/
Post by: Andrea on October 03, 2011, 08:27:43 PM
I found it hard to follow Dr. Nguyen, she seemed to over explain herself and the same questions kept being repeated, re-worded. But she did seem to be wearing a sorta of TII jacket.
The death pic is so obviously fake, it's hard to understand how so many people just accepted it as fact. Then again, who compares gurneys? LOL. We do!!
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 08:29:54 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 03, 2011, 08:36:53 PM
She isn't out of the woods yet, will probably be in the ICU a few days, I just got home and had to check in on the drama :)
Her doctor pointed out something though...
He says to me " now, your daughter is in full blown DKA ( Diabetic Keto acidosis) , what if I were to "guess" on how much insulin I should give her?" WTF??
This is a man who is a captain in the navy who is beyond retirement age , in his late 50's who has been a medical doctor ( pediatric endocrinologist ) for over 27 years....he doesn't GUESS. He KNOWS. Thats what he was trained to do and what he went to school for. For a doctor to sit there and say " oh we don't know how much medicine to give a patient, it depends on seconds to minutes is bull@#$%. She is either A) not a doctor B) just really stupid. I'm leaning towards A or she was never a doctor in that hospital that day.
Her DR said, his opinion? She is lying...he didn't say on what aspect but she was lying.
Post by: Adi on October 03, 2011, 08:39:51 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Maybe TS is letting the "non-verbal communication" speak for itself! :lol:
Post by: RK on October 03, 2011, 08:43:21 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 03, 2011, 08:47:39 PM
Quote
Opening statements
1. MJ's voice on recording (fire/smoke detector beeping in the background). IF it is really him it is slurred but what he says makes sense. Not incoherent like it would be under drugs. IMO. Question: Why did CM even record it on his iPhone?
2. CM had a CARDIOLOGY BOOK for the BOARD EXAM in MJ's bedroom!!! Huh?
3. CM/Alvarez so careful about collecting vials in bags but then leave it behind for the police to find?
4. MJ knew so much about Propofol so he told CM how it's being used. Why would he have to tell CM if he is a doctor?
KO
1. The e-mail to Randy Phillips!!! Have you noticed? MJ was NOT mentioned by name once. KO just referred to "the Artist".
2. Did you also notice? KO was asked if the night of the 24th was MJ's "last performance on stage". He corrected the inquiry by pointing out it was NOT MJ's "last performance on stage" but his "last rehearsal". :)) Reminded me of Jermaine's "This Is It but this is not really it. This is not the final curtain call."
3. Emphasis by KO about MJ's exitement about the start of the "illusion".
Michael Amir Williams
He said he guarded the room "where MJ, (stuttering) I don't know how to put it, was HELD." Held? What??? Not treated, not where they worked on him or sth like that. Held. (Alvarez said sth similar later). Seemed very amused at times.
Alvarez
1. Saw CM on the landing when entering the house. So CM wasn't helping MJ? Just hanging around the landing waiting?
3. 1st said he was walking with CM towards bedroom then said he saw CM doing CPR with 1 hand when he came into bedroom. Which is it?
4. Said at first he didn't notice any cut in saline bag with the bottle.
The way he desribed the bottle in the bag, no liquid would flow out of the bottle. It has a rubber stopper, liquid just flows when directly attached to (and pierced by) dispenser. Or am I wrong?
5. Lifted MJ to the floor during 911 call? How? Does he have a hands free device? And why can't we hear this movement during the call?
7. 1st 911 call to Beverly Hills (411) before transferral to dispatcher? Knows how to do CPR but not know how to call 911?
8. Video with Alvarez. He stayed in front of the room "where MJ was PLACED". What? Another strange selection of words.
Kai Chase
Kai said she sent Prince upstairs and minutes later security arrived. So Prince should have been already upstairs when Alvarez came. But Alvarez stated that Prince and Paris came in behind him into the bedroom.
Don't even want to mention the fact that she sent 12 yr. Prince upstairs after learning that sth might be seriously wrong with MJ and goes back to work O_O.
The whole questioning seemed to amuse her.
Robert Russell
Would have been a much better witness for defense than for the prosecution. Voicemail from CM (fire/smoke detector beeping in background). Said "Sabbatical" expression by CM was weird. I agree.
Firefighters/Paramedics
Lots of contradictions with other statements of witnesses. Question: If MJ was dead as they stated why did they further try to resucitate him at UCLA for over 1 hour?
Another awkward choice of words (M.B)"...he was down at MJ's groin area...,...touching his groin."
Additional thoughts:
Why did Michael Amir tell Alvarez to go to the front of the house to the front door? Entry through kitchen right next to security trailer would've been much faster. MA to AA "Don't make a commotion, no sudden moves to alarm anybody"? Alarm who? Why no commotion? Strange.
The pillow on MJ's bed looks undisturbed, no indentations. Did someone fluff the pillow in between?
The photo: First of all I think it's a fake. The proportions of the body don't look right to me. Legs und forearm too short. Second, the paramedics said his skin looked blue while still at Carolwood. This pic is supposed to be done later in the hospital. Wouldn't his skin be really blue/ghostly white by then? In the photo his skin looks still very pinkish to me. More like a coma patient. Also I assume they would have done the photo after the resucitation effords not before. Why is there still the tape on his nose and the tubes on his wrist? Wouldn't they remove it right away after being pronounced?
The fire alarms. :)) What's up with that? Fire alarm on 06/25/09 at UCLA (supposedly in adjacent building) and today (9/30)in court (accidental pull on another floor, some people said it was 2.26 PT and it rang 7 times btw.). Oh and do you remember the fire alarm when MJ gave is interview to Oprah years ago?
Also noticed Fire/smoke detectors are beeping in ALL voice recordings of CM as well as MJ presented in court.
On a personal note. Fire/smoke detectors beeping is veeery annoying. You can't ignore it and can't sleep when it's beeping in intervalls especially since you can hear it more or less in the whole house not just in one room.
Unless MJ let it beep for weeks, which requires good nerves, IMO the voice tapes of MJ "under influence" and CM to Martin Russell voice mail were probably taped on the same day/time/place/room.
Since we heard the beeping on MJ's slurry speech" tape (most likely made in the same bedroom where 6/25 events took place) AND on the voice mail from CM to M.Russell, but did not hear beeping on Alvarez 911 call, I think it's safe to say that Alvarez was NOT in the bedroom where the other 2 tapes were made.
*BTW to fix a beeping fire/smoke detector you just have to change the batteries but I doubt CM did that before the 911 call from Alvarez. ;)
KTF!!! :)
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ddjd5v
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 03, 2011, 08:48:24 PM
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):I see what your talking about and just to be clear I never said there was no seal in the actual courtroom. I was only saying the seal we see when the camera goes off is not the one hanging on the wall. When the camera goes up toward the seal I can see the different wall pattern, the camera only catches the bottom left side, then it is like a quick switch of an image around the 2:57 mark. It looks like a slide show, then it goes back and forth for a quick second and then stays still on the seal that looks more like a created image. I wish I could be a fly on the wall. fresse/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
There is some freaky stuff happening. The 2 lady witnesses that were up there for a minute. What was the point?
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 09:49:18 PM
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
Thanks Souza! I knew I wasn't crazy! lolol/
mj_bad/
Post by: monstertooty on October 03, 2011, 09:55:07 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 09:58:05 PM
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):I see what your talking about and just to be clear I never said there was no seal in the actual courtroom. I was only saying the seal we see when the camera goes off is not the one hanging on the wall. When the camera goes up toward the seal I can see the different wall pattern, the camera only catches the bottom left side, then it is like a quick switch of an image around the 2:57 mark. It looks like a slide show, then it goes back and forth for a quick second and then stays still on the seal that looks more like a created image. I wish I could be a fly on the wall. fresse/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
There is some freaky stuff happening. The 2 lady witnesses that were up there for a minute. What was the point?
I know exactly what you are talking about Imconvinced.
HLN said that they zoom in to the seal and back out after break. But they didn't explain why it cuts out. If its 'Live' it should go straight to the seal and not cut out.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 09:59:27 PM
I agree with the comments about today being a 'weird' trial day...things were odd at times. Not sure if anyone noticed on HLN when they came back from commercial and thought they were flipping to the trial...but the picture went to a live feed of an empty room (no people), with what looked like a table and a wide screen against the wall...and at the bottom of the screen, to the right, it said USC Marshall. I googled it but all I get is USC Marshall School of Business :?: Maybe they have an office in the building? It made absolutely no sense...after a few seconds, the camera came back to the HLN reporter (think it was Vinnie Politan)...who didn't know what the heck was going on lol...and it took another 2 minutes or so for them to get the trial feed back. Might have absolutely nothing to do with the hoax...but it sure was strange bangbang I didn't note the time...but I think it was during Dr. Nguyen's testimony (and what the heck was that about???). Or, as mentioned by Im_convinced (who I agree is doing a great job ::P )...the 2 one-minute witnesses...you'd literally miss them if you blinked. That wasn't even worth their cab fare :lol:
Both TS and Front have been 'absent' lately...at least on the forum lol. It sure would be nice to see a post sometime soon....from either screen-name ;) .
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 10:03:01 PM
Regarding Murray's bald spot. It has become clear to me that we are supposed to see Murray's thinage...LOL. I beLIEve it may be a clue letting us know he is Michael. HLN showed the infamous Pepsi footage this evening. Is anybody seeing where I am going with this? ;)
Yes i saw hln show the pepsi burn footage. You know, just from watching the coverage on HLN, Ive been getting a feeling that they are apart of the hoax. Why not? They will definitely gain more fame and noteriety than they could ever imagine through this hoax! They give a lot of information and have a lot of good interviews, thats all I'll say.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 10:11:34 PM
Quote
the murray question
has long bothered me, i think we talked about this before, like theres something we arent getting about murray, he stands for something, his role is important, else why have him? why did michael NEED a doctor or anyone at all to be involved in this hoax?
well i figured it out, with all the media circus this weekend, i figured it out
murray IS michael… not physically but metaphorically
murray is a professional black man fallen from grace, being accused of a horrible crime, outrageous allegations, his private and personal life paraded before the cameras on the evening news for all to see and mock
his child support issues, his debt, his wives and ex’s and girlfriend, hes portrayed as incompetant (leaving the room while michael was under to talk to his girlfriend, not calling 911, one armed cpr, etc) the media has convicted him of a crime and proclaimed him guilty before the police even sealed the “crime scene”
remember, the police didnt consider it a crime scene until the media did, days later, family goes in and out etc
meanwhile the tabloids have targeted murray and proclaimed him michael’s killer
murrays friends and patients and supporters are small voices in the sea of media bias saying wait, no, its not true, hes a holistic doctor, he doesnt perscribe drugs, he uses vitamens and herbs and holistic approaches
the media calls him dr death and dr feel good, drugs drugs drugs, shadey doc, did michael’s bidding, provided powerful drugs at will
so, hes painted as something he is not, they sway perception and turn this man into a monster
meanwhile, the LAPD and now the DA are FOLLOWING the media… and feel pressure to bring a case, the MEDIA are the ones who say manslaughter, murder, charges, hes guilty, the feds have ALWAYS followed the media in this case
so, just like in 2005, when, thanks to the FBI files, the DA had ZERO evidence on michael and conspired to create a case on false pretence, to try and bring him down, NOW we have murray
same situation.
Post by: monstertooty on October 03, 2011, 10:13:39 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 03, 2011, 10:19:02 PM
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues.
so true it all coming to a pivitol moment isnt it? so many things to watch, see, read, re-watch, re- read etc, every day. such an exciting time. go MJ peace and luck to you.
Post by: marisjm on October 03, 2011, 10:22:40 PM
thanks bearhugI hope your daughter gets well soon!
She isn't out of the woods yet, will probably be in the ICU a few days, I just got home and had to check in on the drama :)
Her doctor pointed out something though...
He says to me " now, your daughter is in full blown DKA ( Diabetic Keto acidosis) , what if I were to "guess" on how much insulin I should give her?" WTF??
This is a man who is a captain in the navy who is beyond retirement age , in his late 50's who has been a medical doctor ( pediatric endocrinologist ) for over 27 years....he doesn't GUESS. He KNOWS. Thats what he was trained to do and what he went to school for. For a doctor to sit there and say " oh we don't know how much medicine to give a patient, it depends on seconds to minutes is bull@#$%. She is either A) not a doctor B) just really stupid. I'm leaning towards A or she was never a doctor in that hospital that day.
Her DR said, his opinion? She is lying...he didn't say on what aspect but she was lying.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 10:33:50 PM
This pertains to the Jackson family member's absence from court.
Is it REALLY going to take a solid month for the public to realize they are being hoaxed?!
Many of those who are close to MJ are calling this trial a "joke".
Quote
joke (j(http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gif)k)
n. 1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line. 2. A mischievous trick; a prank. 3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation. 4. Informal a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke. b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office. v. joked, jok·ing, jokes v.intr. 1. To tell or play jokes; jest. 2. To speak in fun; be facetious. v.tr. To make fun of; tease
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joke (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joke)
If the ones who know Michael Joe Jackson intimately are calling this trial a joke, then its even more evidence that this is a hoax. If it weren't, they would want justice for Michael and not say that the trial is stupid and pointless.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 10:37:00 PM
As for the physical theory...the 'holes' I can't seem to reconcile are Murray's height, his arms (in pics where he's wearing a T-shirt), and now thanks to the pedicure...his bare legs :lol: There were a couple times I honestly thought I was seeing Mike's eyes in Murray last week...but then I think maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see. We've seen his height both in pics and in video. I don't know much about photography or special effects...but I'm sure his height (and perhaps even arms and legs) could be 'altered' in pics if someone wanted to. But live video? Wouldn't that be harder to do? I honestly don't know...if someone who is talented with photography and/or camera tricks knows the answer, please share.
Maybe then I could lay one theory to rest :?
@Moon...re: the disappearing Jacksons :lol: ...didn't Majestik mention something about 'people going missing' :lol: :lol: . As for a 'solid month'...that's being pretty optimistic lol.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 10:38:34 PM
The seal IS in the courtroom. The background behind the seal is different from the rest below it. On day 1 they did zoom the camera towards the seal (2:50-3:00):I see what your talking about and just to be clear I never said there was no seal in the actual courtroom. I was only saying the seal we see when the camera goes off is not the one hanging on the wall. When the camera goes up toward the seal I can see the different wall pattern, the camera only catches the bottom left side, then it is like a quick switch of an image around the 2:57 mark. It looks like a slide show, then it goes back and forth for a quick second and then stays still on the seal that looks more like a created image. I wish I could be a fly on the wall. fresse/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=272Jtz-WL8c[/youtube]
So this is not provided by InSession, but it was actually added to the hoax courtroom.
There is some freaky stuff happening. The 2 lady witnesses that were up there for a minute. What was the point?
I know exactly what you are talking about Imconvinced.
HLN said that they zoom in to the seal and back out after break. But they didn't explain why it cuts out. If its 'Live' it should go straight to the seal and not cut out.
Because it's two different cameras. One trained on the seal at all times, it's a straight on, eye level view. The other is one of the multiple floor cameras filming the proceedings. The floor camera that pans up films the 3D seal and the 3D wall relief decoration at an upward and sideways angle. This accounts for the slight difference in appearance of the "stripes". The stripes are likely wood slats laid in a vertical position: _n_n_n_ <--like that. Then the floor camera is faded to the eye-level seal camera for breaks.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 10:42:17 PM
@Monster, yes I know what you mean. This is from 2/7/10 and it remains a strong theory:Quotethe murray question
has long bothered me, i think we talked about this before, like theres something we arent getting about murray, he stands for something, his role is important, else why have him? why did michael NEED a doctor or anyone at all to be involved in this hoax?
well i figured it out, with all the media circus this weekend, i figured it out
murray IS michael… not physically but metaphorically
murray is a professional black man fallen from grace, being accused of a horrible crime, outrageous allegations, his private and personal life paraded before the cameras on the evening news for all to see and mock
his child support issues, his debt, his wives and ex’s and girlfriend, hes portrayed as incompetant (leaving the room while michael was under to talk to his girlfriend, not calling 911, one armed cpr, etc) the media has convicted him of a crime and proclaimed him guilty before the police even sealed the “crime scene”
remember, the police didnt consider it a crime scene until the media did, days later, family goes in and out etc
meanwhile the tabloids have targeted murray and proclaimed him michael’s killer
murrays friends and patients and supporters are small voices in the sea of media bias saying wait, no, its not true, hes a holistic doctor, he doesnt perscribe drugs, he uses vitamens and herbs and holistic approaches
the media calls him dr death and dr feel good, drugs drugs drugs, shadey doc, did michael’s bidding, provided powerful drugs at will
so, hes painted as something he is not, they sway perception and turn this man into a monster
meanwhile, the LAPD and now the DA are FOLLOWING the media… and feel pressure to bring a case, the MEDIA are the ones who say manslaughter, murder, charges, hes guilty, the feds have ALWAYS followed the media in this case
so, just like in 2005, when, thanks to the FBI files, the DA had ZERO evidence on michael and conspired to create a case on false pretence, to try and bring him down, NOW we have murray
same situation.
Excellent theory. Makes absolute sense. A natural healing doctor overdoses the King of Pop?? Maybe if the media reported the true story, Conrad Murray wouldn't have even been a suspect in MJ's 'death'. The 'troot will prevail'. The right and just thing will be done.
Post by: Adi on October 03, 2011, 10:46:05 PM
I watched those 2 witnesses today who were barely on and off the stand in a blink of an eye (blink and you might miss it :lol: ) and I thought the same...what the hell was the use of their testimony??? Anway - the footage of the elevator lobby and the janitor and the live feed lost was all hilarious.
Good catch to by SeeingClues about the lady doctor and her similarity in dress to that golden picture of MJ.
@Monstertooty - I can see where you are going with it. I think Murray is definitely metaphorically representing Michael and what he endured in 2005. I have thought this for a long time and especially after TMZ had that picture of Murray earlier this year at the Prelim trial with the MJ2KV subliminally written on the fence behind him.
After seeing Murray's thinnage on top, almost exactly where the Pepsi burn was, neither have I stopped thinking Murray may very well be Michael in disguise (I know some others don't agree on this...but this is my opinion). Hidden in plain view...lol. I mentioned on another thread that I feel like I'm in that movie "The Usual Suspects" where the answers were right in front of the Detective the whole time (if anyone has seen it, you'll get what I mean)
Anyway - I am sure it will all unfold and eventually we will know either way. 8-)
Interesting day today from the parts I have managed to see and read about. The judge said tomorrow there will be drama because of the rain headed to LA...I wonder if he has a double meaning to that?? could there be drama in the courtroom tomorrow which the media will gorge on?? :lol:
Post by: bec on October 03, 2011, 10:49:39 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 03, 2011, 10:52:24 PM
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues. But still the madness continues. What parent would leave that drug store sitting on a night table when you have young inquisitive children in the house? Kai Chase and the organic juice versus the juice box popper still intrigues me. When I helped nurse my terminally ill father at home, he was on a morphine drip, but I have vivid memories of holding juice with a straw for him to drink as he couldn't eat. It was the way to get nutrition into him. I am now open to and willing to consider the terminal patient- dead body theory.@ I'mconvinced, what a great job you are doing in holding up your side. Perhaps you can help this vascillator of no body/dead body to get off the fence and take one side or the other. /judge/
Wow, we have a lot in common...
My mother was also terminally ill from cancer, also on the morphine and we had to feed her juice and Ensure because she couldn't do anything herself and she couldn't eat either.
But I agree, all those meds lying around with kids in the house? That's an accident waiting to happen!
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 10:56:42 PM
Ps. MJ could be Murray similar to how he was Dave Dave. Anything is possible for a day.
I could be wrong so someone let me know if I am. The pictures taken of Conrad Murray sometimes show CM's full body and height. There are no actual videos of Conrad Murray's full body and height (let me know if this is incorrect). Conrad is only shown in court sitting down.
With MJ, nothing is off limits. It might not be as crazy as it sounds. I have never believed it, but now it seems plausible to me. I could be very wrong though.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 11:02:44 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 11:03:19 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcgQDxCdBFU
[/youtube]
Maybe they surround him with short people all the time? :lol:
I SO want Murray to be Mike LOL...even if it's just for a day.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 11:07:28 PM
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 03, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Jane Valez and Dr. Drew have definately chilled on the judgemental commentary. It's as if the hoax has finally dawned on them. I'm not so sure about Nancy but we will see. It seems that some of the guests they bring on are purposely slamming Murray in order to provoke a response.....No matter who is in on it I am becoming more and more sure that Murray is Michael hiding in plain sight behind the mask.
Your not alone in this feeling Monster....I have been watching Conrad for 4 days now and there has to be some reason that the camera is always on him. I mean I could see once in a while the camera focusing in on him, but it's on him most of the time. I get this feeling that there is something about him that we are supposed to see, with all the attention on him so much.I think CM could metaphorically be Michael, I especially think that after today when he turned around and we got the long shot of his balding spot...the first thing I thought of was... that is where Michael got burned and I connected that dot right away. I also think that I have seen Michael's eyes there too!! There is something about Conrad that I just want to give him a big hug...he seems so sad! But, I do agree it could be our mastermind hiding right in plain sight....right in FRONT of our faces!! With Michael....I believe anything is possible!! We LOVE you Mr. Michael Genius Jackson!!! mj_bad/ /bravo/
Post by: TS_comments on October 03, 2011, 11:31:32 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 03, 2011, 11:33:58 PM
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues. But still the madness continues. What parent would leave that drug store sitting on a night table when you have young inquisitive children in the house? Kai Chase and the organic juice versus the juice box popper still intrigues me. When I helped nurse my terminally ill father at home, he was on a morphine drip, but I have vivid memories of holding juice with a straw for him to drink as he couldn't eat. It was the way to get nutrition into him. I am now open to and willing to consider the terminal patient- dead body theory.@ I'mconvinced, what a great job you are doing in holding up your side. Perhaps you can help this vascillator of no body/dead body to get off the fence and take one side or the other. /judge/
Wow, we have a lot in common...
My mother was also terminally ill from cancer, also on the morphine and we had to feed her juice and Ensure because she couldn't do anything herself and she couldn't eat either.
But I agree, all those meds lying around with kids in the house? That's an accident waiting to happen!
My Beloved Grandmother and my Mother both were terminally ill with cancer also and they had morphine. Gram had liquid morphine and Mom had morphine patches and pills and the hospice nurses were very protective if you will with that stuff...it had to be up where none of our little ones could get a hold of it...and when they both passed hospice took that medication from the homes and disposed of it.On a side note...I am sorry for you girls losses...I know what you have endured and how hard it is to go through. Love & bearhug to you!!
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 03, 2011, 11:34:25 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
You know... I am keeping score here and I have an announcement for you:
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YOU LOST!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 03, 2011, 11:40:44 PM
Guess we can pack it all up then...it's a wrap :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice to see you posting TS bearhug (even though you didn't shed much 'light'...hope all is well ::P ).
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Yambo3003 on October 03, 2011, 11:42:36 PM
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 03, 2011, 11:43:33 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#%21/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Hmmmm.....TS said that the illuminati killed him and look at his post # 666....coincidence? I think not! afraid/
Post by: CaptainEO on October 03, 2011, 11:46:02 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 03, 2011, 11:46:49 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
You know... I am keeping score here and I have an announcement for you:
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YOU LOST!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/belgiumrocks1001/laughingmj.jpg)
Post by: Adi on October 03, 2011, 11:47:29 PM
There is no way on God's earth you would have ever let us get away with that type of "evidence" as proof...so we ain't gonna let you get away with it either :lol:
You gotta try harder than that buddy :mrgreen: remember we're watchin'! ;)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 03, 2011, 11:48:48 PM
is that the actual TS or a "hoax" account???
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 03, 2011, 11:56:56 PM
prove the gurney theory...the seal.....ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its like taking candy away from a hyper child....."here ya go...oh wait, sorry none for joo!" lolol/ lolol/
Post by: monstertooty on October 03, 2011, 11:57:40 PM
Also, did anybody find it even a little odd that behind the mask video was entirely fan made? I ask this because it seems that during the trial we are helping create things by suggesting them or asking for them, such as the flag and lawyer questioning If we assume that the trial is LIVE than Michael is almost certainly "listening" to what we are saying making some things up on the fly...i.e. interactive entertainment. If the trial is NOT LIVE than that theory doesn't apply. 3. The BAM... what better way to BAM than to peel of the mask of murray to show us he has been there all along. Almost nobody believes Murray could be Michael. Non believers understandably would have no idea but I have found that MOST believers completely dismiss the idea. Shocking none believers is gonna be a piece of cake...BUT shocking us believers is a whole other ballgame. We notice every little thing don't we? :geek: Other than showing up at Cardiff or on a specific date for a press conference, I don't see how else we won't see it coming. Height can be easily manipulated by special effects, camera angles, doubles, editing...Im pretty sure the guy who played Hagrid in harry potter wasnt 12 feet tall or that the hobbits in Lord of the rings are knee high to a grass hopper.
All i ask is to watch Murray, carefully. Even the best hollywood actors at times slip and show us who they really are......example, Eddie Murphys laugh. I kinda hope I am wrong because I don't wanna play spoiler :twisted: for you or myself. I will say this though...I watch that trial everday watching Murray and saying to myself..."Michael, what are you doing dressed like that...I can spot you anywhere regardless of your makeup." Much LOVE to you all. See you at the circus....er....trial. :mrgreen:
Post by: Adi on October 04, 2011, 12:13:22 AM
I wonder if Murray will take the stand? If he does, I wonder what we will see and hear then?!!
...and remember this gem of a video from way back in 2009 which started the Michael is Murray theory:
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bjDWRJx9I&feature=related [/youtube]
Post by: bec on October 04, 2011, 12:15:00 AM
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
TS. :| Now it's your turn for the weak arguments?
Your own words back on 5/19/10 9:07:17pm,
Quote
In fact, many non-believers have accused us of thinking that MJ is alive merely because we are in denial, and don’t want to accept that he is dead. But if we are real investigators, then our feelings should not get in the way of our investigation. We should want to know if he is really dead; and if he’s really alive, then we should be able to back it up with cold-hard facts, not mere wishful fantasies.http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,9994.msg168361.html#msg168361
This is why the information that I provide is, for the most part, cold-hard evidence. In fact, beware of anyone who tries to convince you of anything whatsoever (whether related to MJ or not)—based primarily upon warm fuzzies, and not upon good solid evidence. Personally, I never have and never will try to convince you of anything, without some fairly strong evidence to back it up.
And this is why I have spent a lot of time on the hoax numerology. It may seem cold, dry, and mechanical; but it is tangible evidence, that you can sink your teeth into. It is positively not based upon feelings; and at least for those who understand statistics, it is a category of hard evidence stands head and shoulders above all of the other evidence. As stated in the title of Update #4, it truly is the “Greatest Proof of Hoax, Not Murder”.
Substitute fake seal, missing n and other "typos", fake death pic, fire alarm at 2:26pm PST, janitor cam, elephant on clerk's desk, for numerology, and you have my reply to your "theories" as presented.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
As for this. I disregard your interpretation of LaToya's tweet. LaToya was clearing talking about STRAIGHT MURDER, the song by 50 Cent. Here are the lyrics and you can see for yourself:
Quote
AOWWWW~!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA_dNMHlSZw
It hurts...(50 growls)
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah - YEAH!!
D's tryin to plant a murder on me
In the precinct, they sayin' I done murdered homey
I told my lawyer, "I ain't heard of homey"
And e'rybody know my niggas murder fo' me
She's clearly saying Murray is being framed for a crime he did not commit. If it was a Sting court then all appearances should be kept up as the Family would be on the FBI's side, and wish to at least not impede the progress of the Sting. They should be rallying around in their united support of watching justice be served... not be outspoken that the accused is in reality innocent.
As it is, LaToya and her magic tricks and Jermaine and his airports and everyone and their "it'll all come out" have done a great job all along of inciting subtle suspicion as to the true nature of this case.
LaToya is saying Murray is being framed because he is. Murray didn't kill MJ because no one killed MJ but he is under suspicion of doing so, and he has already been tried, convicted and sentenced to life by a rabid media and an equally rabid fan base. This is a hoax court with a media/fan sting operation.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 04, 2011, 12:21:51 AM
Its interesting that Jermaine (4th child), Randy (8th child) and Janet (9th child) are removing themselves from the tribute scene. Ecspecially since 4+8+9=21. 21= 777.
Coincidence? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: RK on October 04, 2011, 12:24:32 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 04, 2011, 12:29:26 AM
Trust me, you're not the only nut job...we all pretty much hopped on that train a long time ago...and haven't stopped hopping since :lol: . For me, it's something about Murray's eyes....very familiar feel to them. At this point, anything can be true....I keep remembering Front's funny post about Mike maybe being right in front of our eyes--in the flesh. Maybe it, too, had a double-meaning...and it wasn't just funny as in 'ha-ha funny'...but instead ' (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-020.gif) funny'.
With Mike...anything is possible.
All I know is...I'm gonna need to sleep for a week straight when this is all over with...just to catch up on some zzzzzzz's. I'm wired 24/7 /woohoo/
If Mike is adding special touches based on things suggested here...we should come up with some real good ones :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Adi on October 04, 2011, 12:46:55 AM
LOL Monster...great post...had me falling outta my chair :lol:
Trust me, you're not the only nut job...we all pretty much hopped on that train a long time ago...and haven't stopped hopping since :lol: . For me, it's something about Murray's eyes....very familiar feel to them. At this point, anything can be true....I keep remembering Front's funny post about Mike maybe being right in front of our eyes--in the flesh. Maybe it, too, had a double-meaning...and it wasn't just funny as in 'ha-ha funny'...but instead ' (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-020.gif) funny'.
With Mike...anything is possible.
All I know is...I'm gonna need to sleep for a week straight when this is all over with...just to catch up on some zzzzzzz's. I'm wired 24/7 /woohoo/
If Mike is adding special touches based on things suggested here...we should come up with some real good ones :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 12:50:55 AM
MMORTAL DELUXE ALBUM TRACKLISTING:
1. Working Day and Night (Immortal Version)
2. The Immortal Intro (Immortal Version)
3. Childhood (Immortal Version)
4. Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’ (Immortal Version)
5. Shake Your Body Down To The Ground (Immortal Version)
6. Dancing Machine/Blame It On The Boogie (Immortal Version)
7. Ben (Immortal Version)
8. This Place Hotel/Smooth Criminal/Dangerous (Immortal Version)
9. The Mime Segment: I Like The Way/Speed Demon/Another Part Of Me (Immortal Version)
10. J5 Medley: I Want You Back/ABC/The Love You Save (Immortal Version)
11. Human Nature/Speechless (Immortal Version)
12. Is It Scary/Thriller/Ghost/Somebody’s Watching Me/Threatened (Immortal Version)
13. You Are Not Alone/I Just Can’t Stop Loving You (Immortal Version)
14. Beat It/Jam/State Of Shock (Immortal Version)
15. Earth Song/Planet Earth (Immortal Version)
16. Scream/Little Susie (Immortal Version)
17. Gone Too Soon (Immortal Version)
18. They Don’t Care About Us (Immortal Version)
19. I’ll Be There (Immortal Version)
20. Immortal Megamix: Can You Feel It/Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough/Billie Jean/Black Or White (Immortal Version)
21. Man In The Mirror (Immortal Version)
22. Remember The Time/Bad (Immortal Version)
I have a strange feeling there is something here....
Post by: bec on October 04, 2011, 12:53:55 AM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 12:56:29 AM
OOPS I thought I was in the other forum....I have 5 pages open...sowwryyyy :(
Post by: ibelieveinmj on October 04, 2011, 12:59:42 AM
Wouldn't that be the ultimate shocker of this whole thing that Michael was in disguise and no one noticed?
The biggest thing I have noticed is when Murray wipes or scratches his face, he pats his face in a way that he doesn't want to rub off any makeup. Like a woman would do !! And often after touching his face he looks at his fingers - checking to see if anything rubbed off maybe???? Sometimes it even looks as if the mask is a little irritating, lol.
I noticed the balding spot right away and thought of Michael's burn, what coincidence!! Then the hands, the picture of Micheal at the top of this page is what caught my attention early on and found a similarity.
So maybe it's just what I want to see....I think for shock value this would be it!
Would we be underestimating Michael if we think this is impossible????
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 01:02:10 AM
I don't know if I missed something important.
Any contradictions in the testimonies?
Post by: RK on October 04, 2011, 01:02:54 AM
LOL Monster...great post...had me falling outta my chair :lol:
Trust me, you're not the only nut job...we all pretty much hopped on that train a long time ago...and haven't stopped hopping since :lol: . For me, it's something about Murray's eyes....very familiar feel to them. At this point, anything can be true....I keep remembering Front's funny post about Mike maybe being right in front of our eyes--in the flesh. Maybe it, too, had a double-meaning...and it wasn't just funny as in 'ha-ha funny'...but instead ' (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-020.gif) funny'.
With Mike...anything is possible.
All I know is...I'm gonna need to sleep for a week straight when this is all over with...just to catch up on some zzzzzzz's. I'm wired 24/7 /woohoo/
If Mike is adding special touches based on things suggested here...we should come up with some real good ones :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny :lol:
I admit I've even entertained and then later dismissed that Jermaine was playing Murray. Different ears. Yes I checked. For the hoax script writers reading here, how about a return of Murray's paisley tie for court. That tie rocked.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 01:04:52 AM
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 01:15:39 AM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
TS I'm glad you are in good spirits after so many proofs that Michael is dead :shock: .
Post by: TheSecret on October 04, 2011, 01:38:34 AM
Post by: curls on October 04, 2011, 02:01:09 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 02:19:17 AM
Well someone posted a photo of one bed of that kind and the bed is actually longer than we see in the MJ dead picture.
So my conclusion is that the legs are there, we just can't see the rest of the bed. I mean the bed is longer than we can actually see in the picture.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 02:25:32 AM
LOl TS, well you did give yourself the easiest option out of hoax, sting and murder didn't you! How about an 'accidental death' theory? That's the one people I've spoken to in my 'real life' are going with - MJ was a druggie anyway, so was a timebomb waiting to go off - 'he had a bad reaction'. End of story (for them!).
People I speak to believe the same
Post by: MJonmind on October 04, 2011, 04:25:49 AM
mj_dance/
My request for the courtroom is if someone somewhere can include the word, "Bam!" Thanks in advance!
Hi TS! Nice try, but I don't buy murder! :D
Post by: 6Bpeople on October 04, 2011, 06:32:22 AM
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/useroff.gif) Yambo3003 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=profile;u=4138)[size=0.85em][/size][/size]
- [size=0.85em]Army of L.O.V.E.[/size]
- [size=0.85em][/font][/size][/size]
- [size=0.85em]Posts: 241[/size]
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[/size]Re: TIAI September 27 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360091.html#msg360091)
« Reply #670 on: Today at 04:42:36 AM »
TS_Comments last reply was #666!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/ip.gif) Logged
OK so TS played the devil's advocate on reply #666! Let's wait until reply #777 to see what TS will come up with [/size][/size][/color]
Post by: Adi on October 04, 2011, 06:39:19 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 04, 2011, 06:56:02 AM
ATTENTION:
This is a test of the emergency hoax-cast system,
this is only a test.
In the event of an actual hoax emergency,
this hoax-cast system and others around you
would provide undisputed evidence
of said crime.
This is only a test.
TS.....don't make me dislike you, at least not before my coffee or merlot >:(
Now, enough with Mr. Potato Head Eyes here........back to the hoax
Blessings
Post by: Shining light on October 04, 2011, 08:40:46 AM
/overreacting/ Hey TS ain't you the one that said MJ would bam Before the end of 2012 if not you were a fake informer? Well then if he is dead would that not make you a fake informer? Seems to me this is just a contradiction,because this is a big hoax.I do believe Michael was murdered but only in name. Murdered,crucified,and belittled by the media who are controlled by the illuminatis. Nice try though Ts but like others have said we need some hard evidence to prove that he is in fact was really murdered. I think Bec is dominating this fight so far.
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 09:15:02 AM
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.
Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.
A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
( TMZ deleted the article only 5 mins after posting it, luckily my app on my phone still shows it)
Also I thought there was a gag order in place?
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-trial-death-prosecution-tricking-jurors-fabrication-m-barbering-alberto-alvarez-911-haircut/
Conrad Murray spilled his guts to his barber over the weekend, complaining the prosecutor in his manslaughter trial is intentionally deceiving the jury.
Murray's barber, Maurice from M Barbering, tells TMZ ... Murray was griping that prosecutors have said the Doc delayed calling 911. Murray told the clipper ... he told bodyguard Alberto Alvarez to immediately call 911.
And on the subject of Alvarez ... Murray is pissed at the accusation he told the bodyguard to bring Michael Jackson's two oldest kids to Jackson's bedroom. Doc Murray says he actually told Alvarez to keep them away.
Murray was telling his barber he thinks the prosecutors are more interested in convicting him than being honest.
And if you're wondering, Murray's cut cost $25 ... and he left a 5 dollar tip.
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 04, 2011, 10:04:18 AM
Ok something is seriously going on...
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol)
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
I have seen it also, but have not managed to make s screen shot. Interesting.
I also remember someone talking about Murray having the same hairdresser as Jermaine. I think it was Souza... and here we go, hairdresser story /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 04, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
I couldn't watch the yesterday court session.
I don't know if I missed something important.
Any contradictions in the testimonies?
There was not so important!
Unless the contradiction of the doctor who said that Michael was already dead when he reached the hospital, but she later said that if Murray had spoken about the use of propofol, it could have done more to save Michael's life.
In addition, more elephants, laughter and false seal.
I just want to say, I have the impression that the name Michael is more discredited with this trial. After that recording (which we believe is false), I see people saying that Michael was handed over to the terribly drugs.
Michael became guilty for his own death and Murray is the victim for daring to take care of a junkie!
So this is the new label of Michael: sick and hopeless drugged.
Is not this the ideal time for Michael to appear and finish off this farce and the mud about your name?
This would be the climax to shock the world!
Post by: paula-c on October 04, 2011, 10:16:45 AM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Aaaay no, specific events TS you need to check with facts that your theory is correct 8) /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Post by: Mish1981 on October 04, 2011, 10:35:06 AM
Post by: paula-c on October 04, 2011, 10:49:45 AM
"a once in a lifetime event"
Murray farewell letter to his patients
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/once10.jpg) :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 11:27:17 AM
Ive watched alot of trials and aren't they supposed to ask" how did you meet the defendant?"...not ask them " so, you met the defendant at a social club back in 2009...is that correct?"
Leading??
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 11:40:22 AM
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0762.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg">
Not a skin discoloration because its not in these pics
<img src="http://clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/091123_Conrad_Murray-1.jpg">
<img src="http://topnews.in/light/files/mi0bh-po.jpg">
WTF??
Post by: fordtocarr on October 04, 2011, 11:48:46 AM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 12:02:49 PM
"he had a HIStory of practicing in California"...then corrected her statement " HIStory of practicing"...
AND THERE IT IS FOLKS...SHE'S A PROFESSIONAL ACTRESS!!!!!!! OMG! lolol/ lolol/ lolol/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 12:30:36 PM
1. She is an actress, she is clearly acting...her body language, the smirks, the way she is talking, the attitude...
2. She is acting like Michael Jackson is IN the court room.
" OMG it's Michael Jackson...when speaking about Michael, her eyes got wide, bulged out of her face, she got overly excited, body language shifted to excitement like she just received a lottery check.
3. She is not really properly dressed for court...much like LaToya.
4. Did she only hook up with Murray because he was MJ's doctor? Murray is no looker...and she is 29 and he is definitely up there in age...
OK TMZ, we know you are reading this forum...
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg">
There's no bigger stage for an aspiring actress than the Conrad Murray manslaughhter trial -- and today, the doc's 29-year-old baby mama is NAILING her biggest audition ever!!!
Nicole Alvarez -- a former Vegas stripper Murray met in 2005 -- is flashing her BIG, GIANT, er, smile on the stand right now ... and during her testimony, she's proved she's got some serious emotional RANGE!!!
Just check out the pics below -- think she'll get a gig out of this???
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-expressions.jpg">
So many things are about to come out in the next few hours...I can feel it
Love the prosecution slip up calling Murray "Michael Jackson's attorney, then said doctor real quick".... lolol/
Post by: MissG on October 04, 2011, 12:32:27 PM
h.o.a.x.e.s.s.e.d
Hey! here Miss Brazil :)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOQPO5EOTZ-7afQU8RA73C_zspFM5w1I3m6_MlOlSki1nRyictqVH_hJyV)
but in 1980...
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 12:36:52 PM
How many people with the last name "Alvarez" are going to testify? WTF??
Post by: BeTheChange on October 04, 2011, 12:41:21 PM
DA: Ms. Bella, do you recognize Mr. Murray (as she points to him) sitting here wearing a purple tie?
Bella: Yessss (LOL...what was up with the neverending 's' sound whenever she answered yessss :lol: )
Oh, and she just happened to keep a voice message from Murray from June 16, 2009...hmmm, ok.
Anding: When asked to point out Murray...she says he's wearing a purple shirt and purple tie lol.
Alvarez: An actress since 1989 (what a great year!). She's supposedly been with Murray since 2005 (I think that's what she said) but when asked if she went to meet Mike with Murray or alone (and during this part of her testimony, I thought she was gonna have a fanatic attack lol)...she answers with, "I travelled with Mr. Murray". Could be nothing...maybe she's just trying to sound proper in court (but see previous sentence lol)...I just find it odd that she refers to a man she's been with for years as Mr. Murray (who, by the way, seems to be quite the 'player', especially with the younger ladies :lol: ). It's like a Murray-ex-girlfriend convention in court today :lol:
Interesting how she referred to her 'self' (even panned her hands over her body) as an 'instrument'....similar to how Mike referred to his 'self' to AEG as the 'machine' LOL
AND...Alvarez gets caught in a whopper of a lie with the 150k/month LOL. Can't wait to see her BACKtrack outta that one once the recess is over.
Pretty entertaining day so far... :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MissG on October 04, 2011, 12:42:51 PM
Not even IDOL!!!
Anyway, we are being educated in many fields, mostly on drug use and medical attention.
Post by: MissG on October 04, 2011, 12:49:14 PM
Now seriuosly. Apparently Michael feared for his life and believed that a plot to murder him was out there. After seeing again the "gurny" pics, Michael looks like in the 90´s with short hair. May be this started way back and Michael put an end to it in 2009, but legally.
Money extorsion, kidnapping threats, assesination threats...this is it he may be thought and here we are today.
Media (and we, people) like to read or listen to "odd" scenarios, it´s human nature. michael is gathering a lot of attention for his cause using the "drug addict lable"
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
wasn't it the prosecution or the CEO of AEG that said "instrument'?
Interesting how she referred to her 'self' (even panned her hands over her body) as an 'instrument'....similar to how Mike referred to his 'self' to AEG as the 'machine' LOL
I know we heard that term on day one from someone in court...
Nicole reminds me of this
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/speeddemon.jpg">
MICHAEL JACKSON!!!!!!!! IT'S HIM!!!!!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ lolol/
Nicole Alvarez -- Murray's girlfriend and baby mama -- is standing by her man.
In case you missed it, prosecution grilled Alvarez on Murray's $150K-a-month salary -- but Alvarez denied knowing anything about it until it hit the media.
Prosecutor Deborah Brazil dug up some of Nicole's previous testimony -- in which Alvarez admitted to knowing about Murray's salary long before news broke about it.
Alvarez balked in response -- claiming her memory might be a little fuzzy ...
* Alvarez said she met Murray at a Vegas club in 2005 they began dating a few months later. She gave birth to his son in 2009.
* She told prosecutors she was "speechless" when Murray introduced her to the pop star in 2008.
* Alvarez met MJ 2 or 3 more times after the baby was born ... saying Michael was "interested" in the baby and wanted to arrange visits so he could see him.
* She says by June of 2009, Murray was leaving at 9 pm almost every night, and coming back in the morning.
* Alvarez says she signed for packages -- later known to contain Propofol -- delivered to her apartment in April, May, and June 2009 ... but insisted she never opened them and didn't know what was in them.
* Alvarez said she spoke to Murray briefly while he was in the ambulance on his way to the hospital. He told her what had happened. She did not recall whether she spoke to him again later that afternoon.
* Defense had no questions for the witness.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
notice Nicole's last name misspelled
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0769.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0768.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0767.jpg">
Post by: Mish1981 on October 04, 2011, 01:20:06 PM
Looks like 'purple' is the color of the day :lol: And they really wanted to make sure we didn't miss it lol:
DA: Ms. Bella, do you recognize Mr. Murray (as she points to him) sitting here wearing a purple tie?
Bella: Yessss (LOL...what was up with the neverending 's' sound whenever she answered yessss :lol: )
Oh, and she just happened to keep a voice message from Murray from June 16, 2009...hmmm, ok.
Anding: When asked to point out Murray...she says he's wearing a purple shirt and purple tie lol.
Alvarez: An actress since 1989 (what a great year!). She's supposedly been with Murray since 2005 (I think that's what she said) but when asked if she went to meet Mike with Murray or alone (and during this part of her testimony, I thought she was gonna have a fanatic attack lol)...she answers with, "I travelled with Mr. Murray". Could be nothing...maybe she's just trying to sound proper in court (but see previous sentence lol)...I just find it odd that she refers to a man she's been with for years as Mr. Murray (who, by the way, seems to be quite the 'player', especially with the younger ladies :lol: ). It's like a Murray-ex-girlfriend convention in court today :lol:
Interesting how she referred to her 'self' (even panned her hands over her body) as an 'instrument'....similar to how Mike referred to his 'self' to AEG as the 'machine' LOL
AND...Alvarez gets caught in a whopper of a lie with the 150k/month LOL. Can't wait to see her BACKtrack outta that one once the recess is over.
Pretty entertaining day so far... :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
She started acting at the age of 8? Interesting considering we've never seen or heard of her from the actress stand point. Also I find it odd that the prosecution didn't continue with her prelim statement as opposed to now.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 04, 2011, 02:10:56 PM
This one comes from SeeingClues. :lol:
(http://s1.proxy04.twitpic.com/photos/large/414343092.jpg)
Couldn't resist as this is just too eerie...
:lol: good catch;...but our Michael is much more handsome
Post by: BeTheChange on October 04, 2011, 02:16:05 PM
@Mish...ya, I was pretty surprised that the DA completely backed off grilling Alvarez on her false testimony re: the 150k/month...odd.
I'm finding this Lopez testimony really interesting...he looks really nervous. Remember he's the witness that went 'missing' lol. I wonder if he has a lawyer...if he's not an 'actor' in this hoax, he should get one, and soon :lol: . Just based on what he's admitting to---and he can't really lie because there's receipts lol---and they're no where near painting the FULL picture of just how much Propofol this guy shipped to Murray...I'd be worried if I were him. The DA went through ALL the protocol that pharmacists have to follow when filling prescriptions for doctors...even making sure to mention obtaining DEA #'s. When she asked him if he verified if Murray's license was valid....he laughingly said he ASKED Murray in a 'round-about way', so as to not make the situation uncomfortable WTF?? ...so that's the verification system this guy was using??? :lol:
There may end up being no 'sting' at all with this trial...but, if there is, I think we may be seeing the first 'target' being called out.
The plot thickens...
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 02:26:22 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
How convenient TS that your evidence miraculously appears for you. :? :roll: 8-) I rarely roll my eyes here on the forum but this explanation takes the cake of all eyeroll worthy comments.
I hope your enjoying the show as much as I am. /woohoo/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 02:28:58 PM
I think TS is hoping that the world ends in 2012 so he doesn't have to explain the BAM statements.... lolol/
Post by: MJmakesmespeechless on October 04, 2011, 02:33:57 PM
Post by: MJmakesmespeechless on October 04, 2011, 02:36:30 PM
Also Alberto said that he thought Michael would be very heavy but was surprised when he was so light (as in weight)
Post by: BeTheChange on October 04, 2011, 02:38:02 PM
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MJmakesmespeechless on October 04, 2011, 02:40:14 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 02:51:05 PM
Post by: MJmakesmespeechless on October 04, 2011, 02:52:27 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 04, 2011, 02:56:07 PM
To me he is not attractive at all.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 04, 2011, 02:56:27 PM
LMFAO...the HLN reporter (don't know his name) that's live at the court house...just told Jane and Ryan that when Alvarez (Murray's g/f) was leaving the courtroom, she nodded at Randy and he nodded back! Then he (the reporter) said he asked her how she thinks she did (with her testimony) and she said, "I did my best". And Jane and Ryan just laughed LOL
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
There are some who forget how to fly (believe!)
They just don't have the will to comprehend something so great and epic the way we do!
In order to understand Michael at all, you have to think creatively.
HLN reporters say and do some strange things. I think they are the puppets and someone very clever is pulling the strings. So why can't it be Michael? The interviews, the slip ups, the twilight zone song brought to you by Majestik the Magnificent lol, the believer interviewed (of course they picked one of the crazy ones! :roll: ) on Jane Valdez, Nancy Grace's obsession with MJ's urine :lol: , the list goes on. The further we get into the trial, the weirder things will get. I've just got that funny feeling...
Post by: voiceforthesilent on October 04, 2011, 02:59:07 PM
Okay - I found this Nicole Alvarez to be an interesting person as well. She appeared way too happy to be up on the witness stand. She was outright giddy when asked if she and Dr Murray had a child together. Her whole demeanor gave me the impression that she was taking on a little of the Chandler woman's attitude from the 2005 trial. It's my understanding that June Chandler kept looking at the jury in an intimidating manner which is similar to Nicole's actions. It made me want to go back and study June's testimony from the trial.
She's been an actress since 1998. Her description of her "instrument" was interesting.
I loved what she said when asked if she was excited to meet Michael she said "Absolutely. It's Michael Jackson!" LOL. No argument there :)
By the way, that was similar to the comment by Antoinette Gill who was asked if she was excited for Murray to have the chance to be MJ's personal doctor. She replied yes and when asked why she said "It's Michael Jackson and everyone knows Michael Jackson"! LOL - I thought of a comment made in the Speed Demon video at that point.
I also like how she threw in the word "History" when she commented on Murray's practice being in Houston. She said he has a history there instead of saying he had a practice there.
Speaking of the Chandler attitude correlation, wasn't there something about her acting like she was queen bee in Michael's house and very nosy? I need to go back and review before saying more but Nicole made a comment that had me think again about Chandler. When asked about receiving the fax machine (when giving false statements about knowing/receiving the fax) she said she wasn't his (Murray's) secretary or his assistant. Her attitude was a little self-righteous.
I'm not sure if her lying about the fax is considered perjury? She outright admitted in her own way that she lied. At least that's how I understood her comments. Does anyone know?
Blessings to each of you. Keep the faith!
God bless you, Michael!
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 03:08:39 PM
LMFAO...the HLN reporter (don't know his name) that's live at the court house...just told Jane and Ryan that when Alvarez (Murray's g/f) was leaving the courtroom, she nodded at Randy and he nodded back! Then he (the reporter) said he asked her how she thinks she did (with her testimony) and she said, "I did my best". And Jane and Ryan just laughed LOL
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
The HLN reporters also said the info from TMZ. Great pics TMZ. lolol/
Quote
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg">
There's no bigger stage for an aspiring actress than the Conrad Murray manslaughhter trial -- and today, the doc's 29-year-old baby mama is NAILING her biggest audition ever!!!
Nicole Alvarez -- a former Vegas stripper Murray met in 2005 -- is flashing her BIG, GIANT, er, smile on the stand right now ... and during her testimony, she's proved she's got some serious emotional RANGE!!!
Just check out the pics below -- think she'll get a gig out of this???
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-expressions.jpg)
Post by: Truth_or_Dare on October 04, 2011, 03:08:47 PM
The first paramedic to testify (sorry dont have his name...i think it was Richard something) said that HE and a big strong fireman had to lift Michael off the bed to give CPR...however Alberto Alvarez said he and Murray put Michael on the floor.
Also Alberto said that he thought Michael would be very heavy but was surprised when he was so light (as in weight)
I also remember one of the paramedics ( don't know if it's the same one you saw) say that when the walked in room they saw Murray taking MJ off the bed to the floor. I'll try to find a video for that testimony.
Post by: Snoopy71 on October 04, 2011, 03:08:54 PM
It's not surprising that these girls are in the "entertainment" industry (they know a mark when they see one). Men who frequent gentleman's clubs get a false sense of a womans affection....The men think these women are interested in them by giving them money/gifts, when they are only interested in the money they think he has.
Very sad really.....borderline pathetic. Some women are sharks and out to get what they can with no scruples :-\
Whether these women are actors or not I don't know....but that type of women are very real!
Post by: AThousandTimes on October 04, 2011, 03:11:19 PM
This is supposed to be a very, very serious trial. And then there is a stuffed animal inside the court house??? Right in front of the camera's ??? Literaly an elephant in the room....
Post by: rswilley2011 on October 04, 2011, 03:11:48 PM
moonwalk_/
Post by: Truth_or_Dare on October 04, 2011, 03:16:46 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 04, 2011, 03:20:51 PM
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/conejo10.jpg)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/taqui10.jpg)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 03:22:53 PM
@BeTheChange-This is an awesome summary supporting the body/corpse theory. I have been waiting to post on this subject until more testimony comes out. The coroner's people are going to be the best for that part. Thanks for your encouraging comment some pages back. ;)
Going back to the 'no body' used, 'dummy', or 'real body' (of someone other than MJ) theories...and based only on what we've heard so far in trial (this, of course, may change as more witnesses are questioned and we hear even more discrepancies)...this is what we have so far:
On June 25th these are the people that either witnessed MJ 'dead' in the house or saw the 'body' (supposedly already dead) at the hospital (again, based solely on the testimony given so far):
- Murray
- Michael Amir
- Fareem (the driver)
- Alvarez
- Prince and Paris
- 2 EMTS (Senneff and Blount)
- additional EMT's on the scene (I think it was stated that up to another 4 EMT's helped carrry the 'body' down the stairs for transport)
- Dr. Cooper
- 14 (7+7 lol) additional medical staff at UCLA in trauma port (as per Cooper's testimony)
- additional docs that Dr. Cooper said she consulted (I think she said 5 or 6)
I haven't mentioned Kenny or Kai because I don't believe either of them testified to actually seeing the 'body' (if I'm wrong or if I've left someone out, someone please correct me). Also, I haven't mentioned the coroner because he has yet to testify--but would also be included in the list of people who supposedly saw a 'body' on June 25th.
With the 'no body' and the 'dummy' theories...all these people would have to be in on it. Just based on testimony so far, that would be approx. 30 people (give or take a couple) that would have had to know that there either was 'no body' that day or that a 'dummy' was used for a hoax.
With the 'real body' (but not MJ's) theory...we can greatly narrow down the number of people who would've had to be in on it....especially if whoever did die that day resembled Mike.
Given the discrepancies in recognizing it was MJ (Blount), not recognizing him right away (Senneff), discrepanices in the weight of the 'body', discrepanices in what the 'body' was wearing, discrepancies in the autopsy report (which have yet to be discussed in the trial), etc etc...and given the desire (I would think) to keep the number of people 'in on it' to a minimum...I think, at this point anyway, there's more 'evidence' to support a 'real body' theory than a 'no body' and/or 'dummy' theory.
Please feel free to add or disagree with certain points...I'm just thinking out loud here and may have missed something of importance. I realize we have discussed these theories quite a bit...but we now have actual testimony (whether real or fake) to either support or 'poke holes' in each theory.
With L.O.V.E. always.
@RK-Thank you for the encouragement also. This info is coming fast and I am trying to keep up as much as possible. I go to bed and there is only so many pages on this thread, I wake up and 3 pages have gone by. I have to read fast and catch up to be on the same topic. No complaints tho this is the best adventure anyone can hope for. :mrgreen:
The pace that all this is coming out at us is so fast that I'm in a more watching the passing parade mode because of time issues. But still the madness continues. What parent would leave that drug store sitting on a night table when you have young inquisitive children in the house? Kai Chase and the organic juice versus the juice box popper still intrigues me. When I helped nurse my terminally ill father at home, he was on a morphine drip, but I have vivid memories of holding juice with a straw for him to drink as he couldn't eat. It was the way to get nutrition into him. I am now open to and willing to consider the terminal patient- dead body theory.@ I'mconvinced, what a great job you are doing in holding up your side. Perhaps you can help this vascillator of no body/dead body to get off the fence and take one side or the other. /judge/
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 03:39:26 PM
These photos are from another forum, someone can see a rabbit hidden in these plants? errrr
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/conejo10.jpg)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/taqui10.jpg)
I can not see the ears of the rabbit but the teeth are there. :lol:
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 03:43:57 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 04:05:54 PM
Post by: Andrea on October 04, 2011, 04:09:18 PM
Actually I do not think that Murray has or had relation with all these women. This is also a movie and I do believe that these women are doing their parts. Playing Murray's girlfriends.
That is exactly what I think. Remember all the staged photos of Murray and Alvarez and their small child at different times, and this child never seems to grow. I don't think Murray is ugly, I actually think he has a kind face (usually, LOL).
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 04:22:45 PM
The first paramedic to testify (sorry dont have his name...i think it was Richard something) said that HE and a big strong fireman had to lift Michael off the bed to give CPR...however Alberto Alvarez said he and Murray put Michael on the floor.
Also Alberto said that he thought Michael would be very heavy but was surprised when he was so light (as in weight)
If there were no contradictions and conflicts this trial would be real and Michael would be gone. So, no surprise at all with all the contradictions. :mrgreen:
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 04:24:20 PM
HLN is playing some strip tease music and showing the women's testimony. They are clowning around. lolol/
:lol:
I saw that too.
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 04, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
Do not judge your neighbor without knowing it well!
Let us remember the message of Michael.
I do not think Murray old and ugly ... maybe he is gentle, intelligent and pleasant. A murderer?? I really can not see him that way.
Post by: MJmakesmespeechless on October 04, 2011, 04:36:06 PM
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on October 04, 2011, 04:43:53 PM
Post by: Grace on October 04, 2011, 04:47:53 PM
Mr. Michael24 I want to believe your crazy theory but I can't. I can't believe a silicon mask can be so perfectly made to look like human skin (I mean if Murray would be Michael).
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Would these make it more real for you?
http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php (http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related)
Post by: wishingstar on October 04, 2011, 04:49:07 PM
One a nicer note........I really, really, really appreciate all you guys so much. All your insights, thoughts etc. I can't watch the trial everyday and you seriously help. I try to catch what I can with posted videos, You Tube, etc.....nothing like watching it live though. But, you guys really are amazing. The things you catch, notice and write about astound me.......thank you very much!
LOVE
Blessings to all
Post by: Dontwalkaway on October 04, 2011, 04:53:46 PM
Post by: Sarahli on October 04, 2011, 04:57:03 PM
Actually I do not think that Murray has or had relation with all these women. This is also a movie and I do believe that these women are doing their parts. Playing Murray's girlfriends.
That is exactly what I think. Remember all the staged photos of Murray and Alvarez and their small child at different times, and this child never seems to grow. I don't think Murray is ugly, I actually think he has a kind face (usually, LOL).
I join you here, I think it's part of the script. Murray does not seem concerned at all :lol: because of course he is innocent. Sometimes he looks like a child bored in a courtroom....more toys for him there please! :lol: (and for us as well! geek/).
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 05:00:41 PM
Mr. Michael24 I want to believe your crazy theory but I can't. I can't believe a silicon mask can be so perfectly made to look like human skin (I mean if Murray would be Michael).
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Would these make it more real for you?
http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php (http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php)
As one of the ones who do not believe Murray is Michael in disguise, I wanted to answer this. No, these do not make it any real. I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW these kind of masks, prosthetic make up etc and I KNOW as a fact that it is not possible to make a 5'9 man a 6'3 man. You need to add extra prosthetic legs and arms, fake hands to keep the balance btw the length of the arms and the body. And when you do that, you need to feed the vision of that person with some video effects because he can not use fake hands like his own hands. It's easy to create new faces and even bodies as long as you keep the lenght of the person same. You can make him look taller or shorter but you need to do it with visual effects. Wish I could explain it better in english and trying it but this is all I can do. You need to add extra arms and legs to make him 6'3 tall.
I decided to make an interview with the make-up artist who makes all sorts of masks and prosthetic make-ups in films who is a friend of mine. I'm thinking to visit her studio with my cam. So she will be explaining you guys better.
Post by: monstertooty on October 04, 2011, 05:04:27 PM
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 04, 2011, 05:11:25 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 04, 2011, 05:11:49 PM
Well, game over with...you win. Then I guess those of us who do not believe that Michael was murdered/is dead will just go on believing it is a hoax and you can move onto another game. To me what you are then saying is that all these clues these years have been planted by the illuminiti. But, then why would they be planted for us belivers?? What is the purpose of them leaving clues so we believe he's alive and will return? Why not just let Murray go down for it? Have fun with your next game, although I personally feel your post is to make us debunk what you say and thus strengthen our belief in other theories.
Ford.... TS was joking.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 04, 2011, 05:31:47 PM
Well, game over with...you win. Then I guess those of us who do not believe that Michael was murdered/is dead will just go on believing it is a hoax and you can move onto another game. To me what you are then saying is that all these clues these years have been planted by the illuminiti. But, then why would they be planted for us belivers?? What is the purpose of them leaving clues so we believe he's alive and will return? Why not just let Murray go down for it? Have fun with your next game, although I personally feel your post is to make us debunk what you say and thus strengthen our belief in other theories.
Ford.... TS was joking.
ME TOO...
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 04, 2011, 05:35:58 PM
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 04, 2011, 05:36:18 PM
LMFAO...the HLN reporter (don't know his name) that's live at the court house...just told Jane and Ryan that when Alvarez (Murray's g/f) was leaving the courtroom, she nodded at Randy and he nodded back! Then he (the reporter) said he asked her how she thinks she did (with her testimony) and she said, "I did my best". And Jane and Ryan just laughed LOL
Do they not find it weird that the girlfriend of the guy who supposedly killed MJ and Randy exchanged nods?? lol...it's right in FRONT of their faces and they can't see it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
The HLN reporters also said the info from TMZ. Great pics TMZ. lolol/Quotehttp://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/04/nicole-alvarez-dr-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-stripper-actress-hot-audition-michael-jackson-photos/)
<img src="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-alverez-standing-2.jpg)">
There's no bigger stage for an aspiring actress than the Conrad Murray manslaughhter trial -- and today, the doc's 29-year-old baby mama is NAILING her biggest audition ever!!!
Nicole Alvarez -- a former Vegas stripper Murray met in 2005 -- is flashing her BIG, GIANT, er, smile on the stand right now ... and during her testimony, she's proved she's got some serious emotional RANGE!!!
Just check out the pics below -- think she'll get a gig out of this???
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/04/1004-nicole-expressions.jpg)
Conny had 3 of his "pretty young things" (PYT) in court today!! lolol/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 05:38:31 PM
Michael as MURRAY IN the court room then they switch when court dismisses and the real Murray goes home?
It's not impossible.
He had some strange facial problems this morning, anything can be possible.
And the question the prosecution asked Nicole.."did Dr Murray tell you he was ACTING as MJ's physician?"
Hln replayed that 3 times so far...
Post by: Mish1981 on October 04, 2011, 05:50:26 PM
Mr. Michael24 I want to believe your crazy theory but I can't. I can't believe a silicon mask can be so perfectly made to look like human skin (I mean if Murray would be Michael).
His face looks like a real human face, real skin, well maybe I am wrong but this is my opinion.
Would these make it more real for you?
http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php (http://www.spfxmasks.com/ourmasks.php)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srcN8Ctvvs8)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Kts7IYctc&feature=related)
While those are really interesting to watch, it is obvious that those are mask. They have come a long way in the film industry to make things more realistic but they still have work to do. Someone mentioned the Klumps movie that Eddie Murphy played in, and again while that was a good movie it's still obvious that it's one person. I'm sorry I have to agree with a few on here, I don't think that Murray is Michael in disguise. I do however think that Murray is Michael metaphorically speaking.
Post by: Adi on October 04, 2011, 06:01:15 PM
Ok something is seriously going on...
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol)
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.
Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.
A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
( TMZ deleted the article only 5 mins after posting it, luckily my app on my phone still shows it)
Also I thought there was a gag order in place?
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-trial-death-prosecution-tricking-jurors-fabrication-m-barbering-alberto-alvarez-911-haircut/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-trial-death-prosecution-tricking-jurors-fabrication-m-barbering-alberto-alvarez-911-haircut/)
Conrad Murray spilled his guts to his barber over the weekend, complaining the prosecutor in his manslaughter trial is intentionally deceiving the jury.
Murray's barber, Maurice from M Barbering, tells TMZ ... Murray was griping that prosecutors have said the Doc delayed calling 911. Murray told the clipper ... he told bodyguard Alberto Alvarez to immediately call 911.
And on the subject of Alvarez ... Murray is pissed at the accusation he told the bodyguard to bring Michael Jackson's two oldest kids to Jackson's bedroom. Doc Murray says he actually told Alvarez to keep them away.
Murray was telling his barber he thinks the prosecutors are more interested in convicting him than being honest.
And if you're wondering, Murray's cut cost $25 ... and he left a 5 dollar tip.
Holy sh*t..that was me last night (my time here in Australia)!!!!! before I went to bed...now is the 1st chance I have managed to get on here and read what happened overnight. It's over on page 28 :lol: in response to the post by BeTheChange saying we should make requests.... :lol:
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny :lol:
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 06:22:44 PM
What about a bait and switch?
Michael as MURRAY IN the court room then they switch when court dismisses and the real Murray goes home?
It's not impossible.
He had some strange facial problems this morning, anything can be possible.
And the question the prosecution asked Nicole.."did Dr Murray tell you he was ACTING as MJ's physician?"
Hln replayed that 3 times so far...
As I tried to explain, it is not hard to make these kind of masks. Although you can understand that it is a mask easily from the eye area, still they do a good job. Making someone way so much taller is technically possible. You can add some fake legs and hands but the person can not move comfortably etc. Murray is taller and a huge guy if we compare him with Michael. We saw Murray's legs and arms naked, and there was nothing attached to them to make him taller.
And plus to this, in my humble opinion I do not believe Michael would like to pop up in front of the camera in different disguises. This is his show and he is the one who is DIRECTING it, the man BEHIND the camera. I believe that he would prefer to be behind the camera and pull off the strings.
Post by: suspicious mind on October 04, 2011, 06:26:55 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 04, 2011, 06:30:07 PM
Actually I do not think that Murray has or had relation with all these women. This is also a movie and I do believe that these women are doing their parts. Playing Murray's girlfriends.
That is exactly what I think. Remember all the staged photos of Murray and Alvarez and their small child at different times, and this child never seems to grow. I don't think Murray is ugly, I actually think he has a kind face (usually, LOL).
I join you here, I think it's part of the script. Murray does not seem concerned at all :lol: because of course he is innocent. Sometimes he looks like a child bored in a courtroom....more toys for him there please! :lol: (and for us as well! geek/).
awww exactly. He looks around with his puppy eyes and breaks my heart. lolol/ I love Murray. :mrgreen:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 06:38:49 PM
Post by: MJmakesmespeechless on October 04, 2011, 07:10:17 PM
HLN is playing some strip tease music and showing the women's testimony. They are clowning around. lolol/
:lol:
I saw that too.
I caught that too and couldnt help but start laughing
Post by: paula-c on October 04, 2011, 07:12:23 PM
(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Dr+Conrad+Murray+Nicole+Alvarez+Dr+Conrad+6av_qsrLdiOl.jpg)
(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Dr+Conrad+Murray+Nicole+Alvarez+Dr+Conrad+tJuA7uJ6hERl.jpg)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPFybEMjJ8lRI_tMxvxOViAHwBgysUVsGcWar6bzd6ED1tlBrMzB2qO41i)
(http://www.seekingthetruthmjfans.com/resources/0107-nicole-alverez-smallpost-wenn-1-credit.jpg)
These are the various photos that have been published of Nicole Alvarez, it is the same person?
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 04, 2011, 07:22:28 PM
/judge/ rr/ geek/
Post by: looking4truth on October 04, 2011, 08:02:42 PM
Post by: RK on October 04, 2011, 08:03:48 PM
Tomorrow is the 7th day of trial. I wonder if something epic will happen!! C'mon Mike- don't let us down!Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm going to pull an all nighter [I'm on the opposite side of the world]. Come on Mike, what you got up your magician's sleeve? I'm sure it will be EPIC.
/judge/ rr/ geek/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 08:04:31 PM
A question to you: do you really (and I mean really) believe that the judge coincidentally pointed out the difference between exh. 31 & 32 in such an obvious manner?
As for this part of the question...I can say that what the judge did by pointing out the difference between exhibit 31 and 32 is not only perfectly normal for any judge to do...but it's also important for a judge to address the jury whenever there is a video/audio exhibit followed by a transcript. A jury will always be given these instructions (at least every court case I've watched, including most recently the Anthony trial)...a jury will be told to use the transcript as a guide but that if they hear something different, they are to use their own judgement as to what was said.
There's a lot of things I find to be 'weird' or 'funny' about Judge Pastor...but his instructions to the jury about exhibit 31 & 32 (and then again with a later exhibit) is definitely not one of them.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I really wish TS would chime in :?
I know that it is normal for a judge to explain, but he mentioned it not once, not twice, but at least 5 or 6 times with these specific exhibits. If he would just have mentioned the numbers once or twice, I wouldn't have bothered, but it definitely stood out for me and many others in chat at the same moment.
@Imconvinced: FBI? ;)
Although this courtcase might not be against the DA or judge IMO, does not mean it's not important for any sting being played out in the background. Plus it is an addition to all the other clearly false stuff to ensure they can't be accused of entrapment. Just to be clear again: I DO think there is a sting, just not against the judge or the DA as you think.
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
@Voiceforthesilent-I had the same thought about Nicole reminding me of the lady from 2005 trial. I said so in chat except it is not June Chandler. The woman's name is Janet Arvizo. One other thing I noticed about the pharmacist that disappeared to the Philipines that reminds me of the couple who went to the Philipines and the DA Snaaaaaaaake had people go there to try and convince them to help him string MJ up from a tree. That was in 1993.
Post by: RK on October 04, 2011, 08:11:26 PM
Quote
One other thing I noticed about the pharmacist that disappeared to the Philipines that reminds me of the couple who went to the Philipines and the DA Snaaaaaaaake had people go there to try and convince them to help him string MJ up from a tree. That was in 1993.Excellent dot connecting . Thankyou. /cook/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 04, 2011, 08:13:46 PM
What I'm getting at is did MJ 'die' instantly or was he choking and coughing before he 'died'?
Of course that isn't the only BS we've been fed so I'm not surprised. :roll:
Oh and by the way, the judge had predicted yesterday that today we would have drama. He was definitely spot on with it lol. Baby mama drama! lolol/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 08:15:40 PM
Valdez ( can't stand her) had MJ's old rabbi on and he said, "watching the testimony today, you couldn't have "SCRIPTED" it better.
There were alot of innuendos in the court room today, so many side bar conferences with the judge, a late start, it was just a rather odd day.
prosecution:
called Dr Murray Michael's " acting" attorney ( slip up) then rephrased it to physician...
Nicole Alvarez's bad acting
The pharmacy guy that I SWEAR we've seen him before
3 out of the 4 Murray Temptresses are/were strippers
Nicole's last name misspelled on the Fed Ex invoice ( maybe just an oversight) but when typing Y is not close to Z WTF??
The words "History" "Acting" being used
Sigh...hope tomorrow is good...I have a headache... /scream/
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on October 04, 2011, 08:21:06 PM
Michael was the seventh child with 7 letters in his first name and '7' was his favorite number. So numerically his name is '777' that's the jackpot right there. The lucky sevens. A number that appears once in the bible. There's a lot that can be read into a name. Thats the power of it's sound and interpretation; the story it can tell and the memories it can evoke. But 7 was central to his identity. He wore jackets with 7 sewn on his arm. When he doodled on paper 7 was tagged all over. And what the world never saw were his pencil sketches in later life for a furniture range in his head. He drew thronelike upholstered chairs with 7 carved into the center of the oak frame beneath the seat, set within an intricate floral design
Post by: Adi on October 04, 2011, 08:32:31 PM
Tomorrow is the 7th day of trial. I wonder if something epic will happen!! C'mon Mike- don't let us down!Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm going to pull an all nighter [I'm on the opposite side of the world]. Come on Mike, what you got up your magician's sleeve? I'm sure it will be EPIC.
/judge/ rr/ geek/
Yeh - I'm on the other side of the world too. I might have to pull an all nighter as well...depends if I have the stamina. :mrgreen:
Post by: RK on October 04, 2011, 08:48:33 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 04, 2011, 08:58:47 PM
In jermaine's book, Michwel through a brothers eyes, he wrote:
Michael was the seventh child with 7 letters in his first name and '7' was his favorite number. So numerically his name is '777' that's the jackpot right there. The lucky sevens. A number that appears once in the bible. There's a lot that can be read into a name. Thats the power of it's sound and interpretation; the story it can tell and the memories it can evoke. But 7 was central to his identity. He wore jackets with 7 sewn on his arm. When he doodled on paper 7 was tagged all over. And what the world never saw were his pencil sketches in later life for a furniture range in his head. He drew thronelike upholstered chairs with 7 carved into the center of the oak frame beneath the seat, set within an intricate floral design
Wow...thanks for posting that quote from Jermaine's book. My copy should have been here last week and if it's not here by tomorrow afternoon, I'm cancelling it....if there's one thing I hate, it's bad service (but not as much as the Demon :lol: ). I'll go find a store and buy it.
Based on that quote alone, I'd read the book...the fascination Mike had for the number 7 is one of the most mysterious and intriguing things about him. He's always had it and began displaying it early on...yet few, if any, ever questioned him about it...no media anyway---they were too busy playing with their pitchforks. Even with what we do know about his 'link' to the number...I'm sure it's just a fraction of what it truly means to him. Hopefully someday...he can explain it to us fully ::P .
I wonder how many thronelike chairs he drew with the number 7 under them and what those chairs symbolized for him?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: looking4truth on October 04, 2011, 09:03:50 PM
Come on Adi, you can do it!! I missed last night because the body needed sleep and I'm kicking myself cause I wanted to observe 'Conrad's women'. I don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep. :-[
I was actually thinking of Dirty Diana when I saw these women too so good point about the "coincidence".
Post by: Adi on October 04, 2011, 09:04:26 PM
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Post by: Vietnow on October 04, 2011, 09:09:27 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 09:13:47 PM
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/jackospelling.jpg)
Quote
Lawyers for the man charged with the manslaughter death of Michael Jackson actually misspelled the King of Pop’s first name in a chart shown today to jurors during the defense’s opening statement in a Los Angeles courtroom.
As seen above, the chart placed on an easel by Ed Chernoff, attorney for Conrad Murray, spells the first name of the world’s most famous entertainer “Micheal.”
L.A. prosecutors today also ran into spelling problems during their opening statement. As seen here, on one of the slides shown to jurors, the word “pronounced” was missing the second “n.”
This is deticated to PureLove for the name spelled wrong. This is deticated to bec for the missing "n" in the word pronouced. I was smiling wide when I found this. We aren't the only ones paying attention. lolol/
@RK-I hope I got that info right I was going by memory about the Philipines.
Post by: RK on October 04, 2011, 09:19:54 PM
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 04, 2011, 09:33:39 PM
I was leaning towards P.Y.T myself ( seems all the women are MUCH younger than Murray)
I'm waiting to see what Anderson Cooper has to say...so far Dr. Drew and Nancy's shows played the footage with the porn/sleezy/stripper music showing all the women...I guess that's better then Nancy talking rampant about MJ's urine :)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 09:35:23 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Post by: Mish1981 on October 04, 2011, 09:37:35 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Post by: Andrea on October 04, 2011, 09:39:44 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Fake seal = fake court. A hoax court doesn't mean that there isn't a sting as well though.
Post by: Andrea on October 04, 2011, 09:51:38 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 04, 2011, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Yes Mish1981 Monstertooty did call but not the right place imo. The people to ask would be the TV network---->(In Session/HLN) or someone in the court house. That would be the better options. ;)
Post by: angel on October 04, 2011, 10:02:57 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Hi, TS. I noticed not only the number of your post but also the time. It includes those familiar numbers 31 and 32 that we are discussing so much. ;)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 04, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Someone already called and they said it was a mistake when it was made, it's only suppose to be 31 stars. If I'm not mistaken Monstertooty called.
Yes Mish1981 Monstertooty did call but not the right place imo. The people to ask would be the TV network---->(In Session/HLN) or someone in the court house. That would be the better options. ;)
Wouldn't hurt to try.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 04, 2011, 10:07:49 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#%21/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
Hi, TS. I noticed not only the number of your post but also the time. It includes those familiar numbers 31 and 32 that we are discussing so much. ;)
/bravo/ Good catch!!!
Post by: bec on October 04, 2011, 10:25:17 PM
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Brilliant!!!
Was he on the bed or was he on the floor??? On the bed or on the floor... on the bed or on the floor... THAT is the question.
Excellent connection RK, just excellent.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 04, 2011, 10:45:45 PM
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Brilliant!!!
Was he on the bed or was he on the floor??? On the bed or on the floor... on the bed or on the floor... THAT is the question.
Excellent connection RK, just excellent.
Agree x10!
Just brilliant! /bravo/
Maybe THAT's what all the friggen 'tie' articles from TMZ are about...maybe we're supposed to be trying to 'tie' in current events (in FRONT of our eyes) with past events (BACKground - 2005).
I'm sure Mike planned all this (the hoax) years ago...BUT Back only began posting in 2005 (30-04-2005 or 7-7 lol). I believe that a HUGE reason for this hoax is that whole ordeal that he was put though.
Justice....it's time.
Gonna be on the look-out for any more 'ties'...great work RK!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MichaelsAngel on October 04, 2011, 11:58:46 PM
@RK...I will do my best! I might need a nap today so I can stay up late thru the night. At least it's school holidays at the moment here, so I don't have to worry about getting the kids organised in the morning.:idea:It all has to tie into batshit and the propaganda about Michael saying the most loving thing you can do is to share your bed. It's not a sexual thing, only to those who have that kind of a mindset. He gave the bed to the child and he slept on the floor. In the death 'scene' they removed MJ from the bed onto the floor also. The media running rampant with that story was the trigger for 2005 trial.
Day 7 of the trial may definitely be extremely interesting for sure!!!!
BTW... I like your thinking about the Dirty Diana illusion and all of Conny's women.
Brilliant!!!
Was he on the bed or was he on the floor??? On the bed or on the floor... on the bed or on the floor... THAT is the question.
Excellent connection RK, just excellent.
Agree x10!
Just brilliant! /bravo/
Maybe THAT's what all the friggen 'tie' articles from TMZ are about...maybe we're supposed to be trying to 'tie' in current events (in FRONT of our eyes) with past events (BACKground - 2005).
I'm sure Mike planned all this (the hoax) years ago...BUT Back only began posting in 2005 (30-04-2005 or 7-7 lol). I believe that a HUGE reason for this hoax is that whole ordeal that he was put though.
Justice....it's time.
Gonna be on the look-out for any more 'ties'...great work RK!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Great connection! Michael seriously is a genius mj_dance/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 05, 2011, 12:09:40 AM
That's what i'm trying to say, Murray's face looks real, nit a mask. Even thise masks are VERY good, they still don't fully resemble the real human faces.
Unless of course MJ found incredible talented people to make a REALISTIC mask.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 05, 2011, 12:35:28 AM
In jermaine's book, Michwel through a brothers eyes, he wrote:
Michael was the seventh child with 7 letters in his first name and '7' was his favorite number. So numerically his name is '777' that's the jackpot right there. The lucky sevens. A number that appears once in the bible. There's a lot that can be read into a name. Thats the power of it's sound and interpretation; the story it can tell and the memories it can evoke. But 7 was central to his identity. He wore jackets with 7 sewn on his arm. When he doodled on paper 7 was tagged all over. And what the world never saw were his pencil sketches in later life for a furniture range in his head. He drew thronelike upholstered chairs with 7 carved into the center of the oak frame beneath the seat, set within an intricate floral design
Thank you so much for posting this. I can't have his book but it really looks great.
It was stuck in my mind TMZ broke the story of 7 soon after June 25th.
I doubt they suddenly realized how important 7 was in MJ's life. I believe someone let them know about it, the family or MJ himself(if he was still alive).
Well the number 7 seems to link everything together, starting with Michael and his obsession for 7, continuing with Back's posts and his theory of 7 (BTW TS when will you do us a favour and make a reference to Back?), with the TMZ post about number 7, with TS and the importance he gave to this number and now finally Jermaine confirms it in his book.
Unless the ones that broght it up after June 25th just picked up the story of 7 from where MJ left it and are trying to fool us with it, I would say it is a brilliant code of communication without words.
Post by: MJonmind on October 05, 2011, 02:37:48 AM
Quote
I don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep.Yes, in the same way that no one has seen a picture of Murray and MJ together. There were going to be 3 women in the bed with Michael, as he told someone, "I can handle it!" :lol: Just something else that came to my mind about this BED illusion, remember way back that MJ supposedly wrote this 'story' for his kids on pieces of paper.
Quote
Jackson 'wrote chilling story about child abuser, serial killer starring his own kids'
Agencies Jun 28, 2009, 12.44pm IST
LONDON: Among the documents found after Michael Jackson's tragic death is a controversial play written by him about a child-abuser and serial killer that stars his own children as victims.
The play, called 'Kids on Swings', envisions a nightmare of Prince Michael II and Jacko's daughter Paris, who are captured by a beast who slaughters children with a 'sling blade', the News of the World reports.
The King of Pop wrote it when he visited the UK in 2006, a year after being acquitted of child abuse charges.
The story is etched in black and blue pens on the back of letters and pictures of an Irish Georgian Castle.
The play starts with Jacko's son Prince Michael II and daughter, Paris, playing on the swing before the 'disinterested' boy runs off.
"He runs to the brook skipping past rocks silhouetted against a crystal lake," Jacko wrote.
A pack of wild dogs then hunt the pair as Paris screams for her 'DAD.'
In the next scene, the children find a man working in a field with a sling blade.
"We see him working but we can't see his face," Jackson wrote.
The identity of the evil man is soon revealed.
Prince's character tells his sister: "He murdered his wife and no one ever sees his kids cause he keeps them tied to the bed like his wife, before he murdered her. He starves them FIRST then he murdered them, Paris."
The following scene shows Prince and Paris in bed scared to sleep and the description of the monstrous man.
It reads: "He starved a man for 2 weeks. Just before killing him they had a fight. The guy he was trying to kill grabbed the knife to attack him. And he cut him over the eyes.
"He then got scared and ran into what they call the endless BLACK FOREST . . . he was never found again. Because they say there is no way out of the endless Black Forest."
Shaking with fear, the children peer through the window of his cottage before a creepy scene in which he comes up behind them.
The monster then hunts them down in the forest before Prince apparently dies with his sister's head on his 'lifeless chest.'
In a twist in the tail, the man carries Prince back to the cottage and holds hands with Paris. She is described as feeling 'safe and loved by him.'
The man then "carries Prince to his bed and puts the cover over the sick boy."
When her brother finally wakes up, Paris calms the traumatised boy as she tells him the man "won't hurt you".
The bizarre closing lines read: "He pulls the Toys from his jacket. What was broken is now mended, Fixed Paris. He didn't steal our toys Prince he fixed them. KIDS are happy to see their fixed toys again.
"Man gets up, walks to the door right before he exits Prince says thank you they exchange smiles and we see him."
The 13-page read was supposedly penned down when the 'Thriller' singer was doped up on a cocktail of powerful narcotic painkillers.
Erik Rees, a graphologist who has been observing the star's writing for 30 years is of the opinion that the play suggests that the legends dealt with "split personality".
Jackson may have read the play to his children before they slept at night. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko
He's not a monster after all, and didn't murder or steal toys but fixed them! A bed in the story!
Post by: Adi on October 05, 2011, 02:40:21 AM
I made this suggestion last night Australian time way before courtday #6 had started in L.A. so I think it's more than a coincidence that the very next day it actually happens!!!!
To me this is more verification that the "Director" *cough cough* is watchin' us here and incorporating and adjusting tidbits from us into the courtroom... "I'm adjusting to the situation" afraid/ ...hoax court!!!
TMZ have deleted the article so we can't verify it that way - but was anyone watching the LiveStream when Dr Murray apparently briefly nodded off? I'd be really intrigued to know. I didn't see it because I was sleeping too as it was the middle of the night in Australia :mrgreen:
Ok something is seriously going on...
who mentioned that it would be funny to see if Murray falls asleep in court after reading this forum?
TMZ posted this this morning:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/03/dr-conrad-murray-nods-off-in-manslaughter-trial-sleep-trial-michael-jackson-propofol)
Dr. Conrad Murray- a sleep expert- couldn't fight the boredom of today's testimony...it was lights out during the afternoon session.
Murray's eyes shut and his chin went south.
A startled Murray recovered and feigned interest in the testimony.
( TMZ deleted the article only 5 mins after posting it, luckily my app on my phone still shows it)
Holy sh*t..that was me last night (my time here in Australia)!!!!! before I went to bed...now is the 1st chance I have managed to get on here and read what happened overnight. It's over on page 28 :lol: in response to the post by BeTheChange saying we should make requests.... :lol:
That's right...tooty ain't the only nut job who has thought Murray is Michael! I'm one of those as well.
As for suggestions for special little add-ins during court for hoaxers..that is hilarious. Perhaps Murray could nod off for a few moments with the camera zoomed right on him (we're watchin' afterall)...now that would be funny[/b] :lol:
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 05, 2011, 05:46:46 AM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Uhm... I KNOW he was talking about exhibits. I was watching and listening at the moment and I KNOW he wasn't randomly talking to the jury about the stars on the seal. Why do you think that? I explained what I meant with it, but I will do it again:
The judge payed the MOST attention to these two exhibits. Coincidentally, these numbers are the numbers on the seals (31: real, 32: fake or copy).
You can say that it has nothing to do with it, but that's just your opinion and not fact. I think the coincidence is too big here, that is why I pointed it out and if you want to debunk it, you gotta come with more than just an opinion.
And someone already called, it's somewhere in the thread.
Post by: RK on October 05, 2011, 05:47:48 AM
RKI had forgotten all about that story. What an adventure we have been on for the past 2 years. Priceless. This story brings to my mind the character Boo Radley in To Kill A Mockingbird.QuoteI don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep.Yes, in the same way that no one has seen a picture of Murray and MJ together. There were going to be 3 women in the bed with Michael, as he told someone, "I can handle it!" :lol: Just something else that came to my mind about this BED illusion, remember way back that MJ supposedly wrote this 'story' for his kids on pieces of paper.QuoteJackson 'wrote chilling story about child abuser, serial killer starring his own kids'
Agencies Jun 28, 2009, 12.44pm IST
LONDON: Among the documents found after Michael Jackson's tragic death is a controversial play written by him about a child-abuser and serial killer that stars his own children as victims.
The play, called 'Kids on Swings', envisions a nightmare of Prince Michael II and Jacko's daughter Paris, who are captured by a beast who slaughters children with a 'sling blade', the News of the World reports.
The King of Pop wrote it when he visited the UK in 2006, a year after being acquitted of child abuse charges.
The story is etched in black and blue pens on the back of letters and pictures of an Irish Georgian Castle.
The play starts with Jacko's son Prince Michael II and daughter, Paris, playing on the swing before the 'disinterested' boy runs off.
"He runs to the brook skipping past rocks silhouetted against a crystal lake," Jacko wrote.
A pack of wild dogs then hunt the pair as Paris screams for her 'DAD.'
In the next scene, the children find a man working in a field with a sling blade.
"We see him working but we can't see his face," Jackson wrote.
The identity of the evil man is soon revealed.
Prince's character tells his sister: "He murdered his wife and no one ever sees his kids cause he keeps them tied to the bed like his wife, before he murdered her. He starves them FIRST then he murdered them, Paris."
The following scene shows Prince and Paris in bed scared to sleep and the description of the monstrous man.
It reads: "He starved a man for 2 weeks. Just before killing him they had a fight. The guy he was trying to kill grabbed the knife to attack him. And he cut him over the eyes.
"He then got scared and ran into what they call the endless BLACK FOREST . . . he was never found again. Because they say there is no way out of the endless Black Forest."
Shaking with fear, the children peer through the window of his cottage before a creepy scene in which he comes up behind them.
The monster then hunts them down in the forest before Prince apparently dies with his sister's head on his 'lifeless chest.'
In a twist in the tail, the man carries Prince back to the cottage and holds hands with Paris. She is described as feeling 'safe and loved by him.'
The man then "carries Prince to his bed and puts the cover over the sick boy."
When her brother finally wakes up, Paris calms the traumatised boy as she tells him the man "won't hurt you".
The bizarre closing lines read: "He pulls the Toys from his jacket. What was broken is now mended, Fixed Paris. He didn't steal our toys Prince he fixed them. KIDS are happy to see their fixed toys again.
"Man gets up, walks to the door right before he exits Prince says thank you they exchange smiles and we see him."
The 13-page read was supposedly penned down when the 'Thriller' singer was doped up on a cocktail of powerful narcotic painkillers.
Erik Rees, a graphologist who has been observing the star's writing for 30 years is of the opinion that the play suggests that the legends dealt with "split personality".
Jackson may have read the play to his children before they slept at night. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko
He's not a monster after all, and didn't murder or steal toys but fixed them! A bed in the story!
In some notes about that book, I read- and this is speaking of the three children Jem, Scout and Dill...By searching for the man who has been made into a monster by society- they bring back his basic common humanity and unite him with everyone else in spite of his unusual personality, You know with a little stretch of the imagination, those children and their actions could relate to us, the believers, and how we've been searching to discover the man we never knew, who had been painted unjustly as some kind of monster by society. Anyhow, I have digressed from topic far enough for today.
@Adi...yes it is significant. TMZ have been playing with us for years, but this time they moved Murray as well. :shock:
Post by: Adi on October 05, 2011, 06:58:47 AM
RKI had forgotten all about that story. What an adventure we have been on for the past 2 years. Priceless. This story brings to my mind the character Boo Radley in To Kill A Mockingbird.QuoteI don't believe Dr Murray is the womanizer he's being portrayed as. It's a really big coincidence that MJ was about to rehearse the vanishing illusion in Dirty Diana then....enter Conrad Murray and his bevy of beauties to centre stage. In a sense Murray's gone live with Dirty Diana while Mike has vanished. Okay, seems I really am a nut job and this is with a refreshed mind after a full night's sleep.Yes, in the same way that no one has seen a picture of Murray and MJ together. There were going to be 3 women in the bed with Michael, as he told someone, "I can handle it!" :lol: Just something else that came to my mind about this BED illusion, remember way back that MJ supposedly wrote this 'story' for his kids on pieces of paper.QuoteJackson 'wrote chilling story about child abuser, serial killer starring his own kids'
Agencies Jun 28, 2009, 12.44pm IST
LONDON: Among the documents found after Michael Jackson's tragic death is a controversial play written by him about a child-abuser and serial killer that stars his own children as victims.
The play, called 'Kids on Swings', envisions a nightmare of Prince Michael II and Jacko's daughter Paris, who are captured by a beast who slaughters children with a 'sling blade', the News of the World reports.
The King of Pop wrote it when he visited the UK in 2006, a year after being acquitted of child abuse charges.
The story is etched in black and blue pens on the back of letters and pictures of an Irish Georgian Castle.
The play starts with Jacko's son Prince Michael II and daughter, Paris, playing on the swing before the 'disinterested' boy runs off.
"He runs to the brook skipping past rocks silhouetted against a crystal lake," Jacko wrote.
A pack of wild dogs then hunt the pair as Paris screams for her 'DAD.'
In the next scene, the children find a man working in a field with a sling blade.
"We see him working but we can't see his face," Jackson wrote.
The identity of the evil man is soon revealed.
Prince's character tells his sister: "He murdered his wife and no one ever sees his kids cause he keeps them tied to the bed like his wife, before he murdered her. He starves them FIRST then he murdered them, Paris."
The following scene shows Prince and Paris in bed scared to sleep and the description of the monstrous man.
It reads: "He starved a man for 2 weeks. Just before killing him they had a fight. The guy he was trying to kill grabbed the knife to attack him. And he cut him over the eyes.
"He then got scared and ran into what they call the endless BLACK FOREST . . . he was never found again. Because they say there is no way out of the endless Black Forest."
Shaking with fear, the children peer through the window of his cottage before a creepy scene in which he comes up behind them.
The monster then hunts them down in the forest before Prince apparently dies with his sister's head on his 'lifeless chest.'
In a twist in the tail, the man carries Prince back to the cottage and holds hands with Paris. She is described as feeling 'safe and loved by him.'
The man then "carries Prince to his bed and puts the cover over the sick boy."
When her brother finally wakes up, Paris calms the traumatised boy as she tells him the man "won't hurt you".
The bizarre closing lines read: "He pulls the Toys from his jacket. What was broken is now mended, Fixed Paris. He didn't steal our toys Prince he fixed them. KIDS are happy to see their fixed toys again.
"Man gets up, walks to the door right before he exits Prince says thank you they exchange smiles and we see him."
The 13-page read was supposedly penned down when the 'Thriller' singer was doped up on a cocktail of powerful narcotic painkillers.
Erik Rees, a graphologist who has been observing the star's writing for 30 years is of the opinion that the play suggests that the legends dealt with "split personality".
Jackson may have read the play to his children before they slept at night. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-06-28/news/27658596_1_prince-and-paris-serial-killer-jacko)
He's not a monster after all, and didn't murder or steal toys but fixed them! A bed in the story!
In some notes about that book, I read- and this is speaking of the three children Jem, Scout and Dill...By searching for the man who has been made into a monster by society- they bring back his basic common humanity and unite him with everyone else in spite of his unusual personality, You know with a little stretch of the imagination, those children and their actions could relate to us, the believers, and how we've been searching to discover the man we never knew, who had been painted unjustly as some kind of monster by society. Anyhow, I have digressed from topic far enough for today.
@Adi...yes it is significant. TMZ have been playing with us for years, but this time they moved Murray as well. :shock:
I thought it was significant too. I agree TMZ have been playing with us and planting clues and subtle hints from the very beginning....but I also was wondering if anyone saw this lil' snooze in court by Dr M on the Live Stream today? Anyway - I guess it has long passed now so it probably doesn't matter.
Yes - To Kill a Mockingbird....I read it when I was 15 and to this day (40 years later) it is one of my most all time favourite and treasured novels. Two out of my three children have read it so far and they absolutely adore that novel too.
Post by: heartwarrior on October 05, 2011, 07:10:14 AM
Post by: Sarahli on October 05, 2011, 07:35:39 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIQVtKXMsqE[/youtube]
Post by: Adi on October 05, 2011, 08:05:39 AM
Maybe Dr M has a little nanna nap every day!!!!!!
Post by: Elsa on October 05, 2011, 08:31:01 AM
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 05, 2011, 09:03:25 AM
Today can be one scary day, (http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000203DD.gif) I mean, interesting day to watch. rr/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 09:05:30 AM
- Michael has always been fascinated with magic and illusion (PT Barnum, wanting to get Copperfield for TII, working with Chris Angel, etc etc)
- We've seen Michael in diguise a few times that we know of for a FACT (we can speculate on hat man, blonde lady, old man, etc...but that's all it is, at this point, speculation). For example, he was disguised as the mayor in Ghosts (coincidentally, the same man who was trying to destroy Michael Jackson---i.e. he played himself AND his adversary). We've also seen Michael dabbling with 'illusion'. He's used this element in many concerts but also in his short films. A great example here would also be in Ghosts when he flips to the 'demon-like' MJ....and APPEARS to be much taller than the mayor (i.e. much taller than himself).
- In MJ's Home Movies....he says that he has sat on a bench in Disneyland and NO ONE could tell it was him (must have been a pretty good disguise).
- We also know for a FACT that at the memorial, Marlon felt it important (for some reason) to speak about Michael's love for disguises...going as far as to say that he could fool his own mother. (He did say that he could always tell by looking at Mike's shoes lol...maybe we should try to see Murray's feet in court :lol: )
I'm sure there's many more supporting FACTS pointing to Mike's love of disguises, magic, and illusion...but the point is, if he loved it all so much...why wouldn't he incorporate it in the biggest and boldest endeavor of his life? That's NOT to say he's, therefore, Murray...but out of all the disguises and/or illusions that he could've incorporated into the hoax...would being Murray not be the absolute biggest? It's mentioned several times in TII (maybe intentionally)...that Mike was interested in NEW things...things no one had seen before...things no one thought possible.
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field. And IF Murray is Mike, then it's not just movie-making or special effects....it's something on a whole other level....an illusion of the grandest kind. In TII, it's mentioned (again, maybe intentionally) that Mike had called upon SCIENTISTS specialized in leading/cutting edge technology. Of course, they reference that to his 'costumes' for TII....but perhaps with everything else in this hoax...that, too, has a double meaning.
Murray could very well NOT be Mike...logically, that does make more sense. But that 'sense' comes from the limited knowledge we have in what is possible in technology. Mike was all about innovation and finding ways to achieve the impossible...and if anyone did find a way to APPEAR dead but remain right in FRONT of our faces for 2+ years...it would be Mike. And, as bec said, he may just end up being Murray for a day at some pivitol point in the trial. Or as someone else suggested (sorry can't remember who...maybe Sarahli?)...there could be two Murray's...one that goes out in public and the one we see in court (hmmm...a body double....why does that sound familiar? ;) )
Would I be disappointed if, in the end, Murray never was Mike? lol...I can't dream of a scenario that would cause me to be disappointed on BAMsday! Would any of you, who are adamant that Murray is NOT Mike, be disappointed if it turns out that he is and always was? I highly doubt you would be. All I know is that we ALL underestimated Mike prior to June 25th....I won't ever make that mistake again.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 09:22:13 AM
Today is the seventh day of the trial and the witnesses today are the staff of the coroner office, it's right!
Today can be one scary day, (http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000203DD.gif) I mean, interesting day to watch. rr/
:lol:
That emoticon is funny. And yeah, today is going to be interesting. Hoping to get a nice clue from Michael. bounce/
Post by: Adi on October 05, 2011, 09:26:11 AM
respect/
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 09:28:57 AM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/michael-jackson/misspelled-michael-jackson-894016
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/jackospelling.jpg)QuoteLawyers for the man charged with the manslaughter death of Michael Jackson actually misspelled the King of Pop’s first name in a chart shown today to jurors during the defense’s opening statement in a Los Angeles courtroom.
As seen above, the chart placed on an easel by Ed Chernoff, attorney for Conrad Murray, spells the first name of the world’s most famous entertainer “Micheal.”
L.A. prosecutors today also ran into spelling problems during their opening statement. As seen here, on one of the slides shown to jurors, the word “pronounced” was missing the second “n.”
This is deticated to PureLove for the name spelled wrong. This is deticated to bec for the missing "n" in the word pronouced. I was smiling wide when I found this. We aren't the only ones paying attention. lolol/
@RK-I hope I got that info right I was going by memory about the Philipines.
:lol:
Yes, this is what I was talking about. MicHEAL at the trial and MicHEAL again on the EMT report. Thank you. :mrgreen:
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 09:34:57 AM
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field.
Am I being ignored? Did you read what I wrote on the 31st page? I wrote many times on this forum that I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW this stuff. And seriously it is pissing me off that noone seems to care what I say.
I'll be keeping things to myself now on because it is like being a doctor, coming to this forum and writing what you know about CPR and noone cares about it and keep on writing what they think about the issue. I'm so much offended. Anyways... I wrote the truth and people can enjoy their time dreaming about Murray is Michael. Talking in general here, not at you Bethechange.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 05, 2011, 09:45:21 AM
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field.
Am I being ignored? Did you read what I wrote on the 31st page? I wrote many times on this forum that I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW this stuff. And seriously it is pissing me off that noone seems to care what I say.
I'll be keeping things to myself now on because it is like being a doctor, coming to this forum and writing what you know about CPR and noone cares about it and keep on writing what they think about the issue. I'm so much offended. Anyways... I wrote the truth and people can enjoy their time dreaming about Murray is Michael. Talking in general here, not at you Bethechange.
I read what you wrote and it makes perfect sense to me. I think that Murray represents Michael in the hoax but that's it. bearhug
Post by: wishingstar on October 05, 2011, 09:51:21 AM
You always manage to hit upon, and put into words what I am thinking...thank you because my brain is mush,lol.
About being disappointed on BAMsday.....again...no way possible. Michael could have many parts or no parts......however this ends up, it's amazing. I just wish I could have had more people around me beLIEve. It would have made it easier to talk about. However, in thinking about it just now...it really was/is for the best. I am able to concentrate my own thoughts, ideas and perspectives before writing or researching. So, once again, I am left to wonder if the solitary aspect of being a beLIEver wasn't something Michael anticipated all along.
I feel like Kenny in TII's Thriller section......what day is it? What time is it? My head is just shaking in amazement. It is the 7th day after all.....coroner witness day.....it will be a Thriller for sure. Seems like each witness or set of witnesses has it's own shout out to a Michael song. I thought the P.Y.T. & Dirty Diana witness ties were hysterical....thank you. I suppose Billie Jean could have fit with that line too....maybe? So far:
The Murray Witness Women: PYT, Dirty Diana, Billie Jean
Coroner Witnesses: Thriller & Ghost
Paramedic & Doctor Witnesses: Who Is It?, Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, Shake Your Body,
Security Guards: Blame It On The Boogie, Threatened, Keep It In the Closet
Cell Phone Guys: Scream (because my cell phone drives me crazy!)
Anyways...thanks again BTC......great stuff! And all of you guys doing typing/ ..... bow/
Happy 7th Day....
Blessings
PS> @PureLove.....I LOVE your posts...I am sorry you feel badly and think nobody cares :? I can very much relate. I just chalk it up to the board moving so quickly that posts get moved off the first page. I think many people don't take the time to begin reading from where they left off. Ultimately, they are missing huge sections of great thoughts. I am sorry for your frustrations.....feel free to poke around, it will make you feel better, lol. The Pokester has gone missing these days...too busy with court perhaps, lol. Have a good day PureLove........
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 09:55:32 AM
What I meant in the part of my post that you quoted, bolded, and enlarged...was explained further in the sentence that followed it. I may have missed certain members, but I have yet to come across any member who has claimed to be a SCIENTIST working on leading/cutting edge technology. IF Murray is Mike (and I concede, as I always have, that this would be difficult to pull off)...then we're not talking about regular special effects, or film design, or behind the scenes technical experience...we're talking technology (IF a mask is being used)...that very few are specialized in, or have been exposed to, because it would be NEW...cutting edge technology.
That's all I meant with that comment and I do hope you keep sharing your input. This isn't the first theory in this hoax that people were divided on...and it probably won't be the last. In working as a TEAM...we should try to either help support or help debunk theories as best we can...while ALWAYS conceding that we are ONLY speaking to the best of our knowledge...which, in many cases, may be limited.
You are very adamant that it is NOT possible...and based on your knowledge, that is your truth....and you have every right to state your opinion. You said that no one pays attention to your reasons for thinking it's not possible (which, again, you are mistaken because I do pay attention)...but you also have closed the door on it having any possibility...therefore, you are not considering the posts that suggest Murray could be Mike. 90% of this hoax, at this point, is theory...for us to get upset over trying to prove we are 'right' and someone is 'wrong'...will only lead to a very bumpy ride lol. Instead, I prefer to remain open to any and every possibility...but that's just me.
If we were having this convo in person, I'd give you a hug right now PureLove...so here's a virtual one bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 05, 2011, 10:05:42 AM
Post by: curls on October 05, 2011, 10:14:18 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 10:25:50 AM
If Mike had come to you because of your experience in the film biz...and told you he wanted to create a never-before-seen 'illusion' that would require him to be much larger in size (height, weight, bone structure, etc)...would you have turned him away saying "Nope...it's impossible...can't be done". Or would you have researched and networked with people in trying to turn this dream into a reality for Mike?
IF Mike did approach anyone with this request...I would bet a shitload of money on that person moving heaven and hell to at least TRY to see if it could be done...despite thinking it's impossible. In fact, I honestly believe that the relationship between Mike and anyone who would tell him that something is impossible...would be a short-lived relationship (the very word 'impossible' slams the door on creativity, innovation, and vision). We see evidence of this in TII...with all the technical, costume, directing, etc people...going 'way outta the box' to try to make Mike's visions a reality...visions, that for the most part, had never been done before.
You don't need to answer the question in the first paragraph PureLove if you don't want to...but maybe just think about it. I'm just trying to keep an open (albeit knowledge-limited) mind in anything that relates to Mike's potential vision(s).
On another note...as others have mentioned...it may be a VERY interesting trial day for us...scheduled to begin shortly! Looking forward to it ::P
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. Thanks to WishingStar, Adi, and curls for your nice comments. I'm just trying to look at all angles and possibilities while not closing any doors....just trying to get a peek into the mind of the master ;) . Even if, in the end, we are WAY off (which Mike could very well be reading this stuff and thinking WTF?? LOL)...imagination is NEVER a waste of time...in fact, it's the single-most quality that separates the many from the few who have actually changed the world.
Post by: bec on October 05, 2011, 10:29:46 AM
As far as this thread, it is my belief that Hoax Court has been proven 9 ways from Sunday... which was the original purpose of the thread, I think... ima go back and read TS's OP and see if I'm missing some key detail (lol) that causes him to remain waiting in the wings.
Post by: Vietnow on October 05, 2011, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Yes, I did read all of your message. At first I honestly thought you were talking about the exhibits. The use of a fake state seal has just been on my mind lately. I just wanted to clarify it.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 11:08:24 AM
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/weird2.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/weird.jpg">
I thought it was a little statue of Abe Lincoln but could be mistaken...
someone pointed out in another thread, its a chimp OMG!
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 12:15:41 PM
Iphone screenshot from DR Murray's phone...
Post by: Patricia on October 05, 2011, 12:44:13 PM
Today is the seventh day of the trial and the witnesses today are the staff of the coroner office, it's right!
Today can be one scary day, (http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000203DD.gif) I mean, interesting day to watch. rr/
albino/ Great info!
The first act was to show the other elephant, let's see what else we have throughout the day.
Will they show any of the 61 reported photos in the autopsy? Let's see. ???/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 12:49:24 PM
1) Sally Hirschberg - medical supplies
- DA focused on DEA file for Murray (DEA #)
- Murray had an acct with this company since Dec 2006 (if true, this would debunk the 'theory' that Murray's 'identity' was created in 2009---but again, it could be a fake account set up with a real company for whatever reason)
- the acct shows activity beginning in 2007 (supplies were ordered but not many until 2009 when huge orders were placed)
- Hirschberg said a RED FLAG was raised when Connie Ng requested (on Apr 13/09) that an order be shipped to a residential address---she stated that that was against company policy and the request was declined
There was a lot of other stuff they covered and a lot of dates that were mentioned...I took a lot of notes and wrote all the dates I was able to hear...but not sure if they mean anything.
But based on the above points, I'm beginning to really see a possible sting taking place....one that began (at least the background or foundation of it) many years ago. The DA's for two straight days now have mentioned the DEA and everytime they do...they make sure to say that DEA stands for Drug Enforcement Agency.
We heard from Lopez (pharmacist) yesterday...who obviously didn't verify a license for Murray, nor did he verify where all the orders were being shipped to (Murray's girlfriend's house). Today, we hear from Hirschberg who states that the request to ship to a residence was NOT honored because it's against company policy.
I could very well be way off...but I am starting to see a picture forming...and it seems some of the media is picking up on this as well (on HLN yesterday, they questioned Lopez's actions and those of a doctor being able to order whatever he/she wants and have it shipped wherever).
Anyhow...also interesting is the current witness Marx. Out of ALL the computer examiner experts the DA could've gone to for help with getting data out of Murray's IPhone...they went to a DEA computer expert.
Hopefully some of this will start making sense soon (as far as a possible sting).
In the meantime, be VERY careful what info you send out on your cell phones :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 12:55:48 PM
when they broke for lunch, the camera panned up to "the seal" so in fact the seal is IN the room
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0772.jpg">
I got a pic of it, and it does have 32 stars...so the one HLN is showing as well as TMZ is IN FACT not "made for tv", its IN THE COURT. The camera on Cox 107 panned right up to it above the judge...I couldn't get a pic fast enough of the panning, but wanted to point out that this seal is in the court room.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 01:00:53 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 01:13:54 PM
Post by: Bianca28 on October 05, 2011, 01:15:13 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 01:18:18 PM
And LOL @ "I am asleep"...would be kinda hard to say it if he (literally) was :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ImperfectAngel on October 05, 2011, 01:36:46 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 01:42:11 PM
Of course, as someone who has loved MJ my whole life...hearing him talk about his hurt and lack of childhood...always pierces my heart. What I don't feel bad about is what the media is already focusing on....his state (i.e. being drugged). They are not even talking about the 'message'...just that he was drugged out of his mind (yet was able to string together sentences with coherent pronou_ciation (lol) and a meaningful message :? )
The recording was 4 min and 12 seconds = once again, lucky #7 ;)
EDIT: They just played it again (they will keep playing it)...if you listen closely, his speech becomes more clear towards the end of the recording. For someone under so much influence of drugs...who is in the process of getting knocked out (falling asleep)...it makes no sense that he would become more coherent and understandable right before falling asleep....it would be the opposite.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 01:45:06 PM
We are the World, Heal the World, The Lost Children, Will You Be there....
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/05/michael-jackson-voice-recording-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-audio-prosecutor-david-walgren/
Michael Jackson wanted to dedicate his "This Is It" concerts to his children -- and in a heartbreaking conversation Dr. Conrad Murray recorded weeks before the singer died, MJ claims, "I love them because I didn't have a childhood."
You can hear MJ's voice in the recording -- slurred, incoherent -- explaining how he wanted to outdo The Beatles and Elvis with his final concerts, and go down in history as the greatest entertainer who ever lived.
Michael becomes extremely emotional while speaking about his children -- claiming, "I had no childhood. I feel their pain. I feel their hurt."
Murray recorded the conversation on his iPhone on Sunday May 10th, 2009 at 9:05 AM. It's unclear why -- but according to prosecutors, it documents MJ under the influence of "unknown agents." It also shows Murray was familiar with Michael in altered states of mind.
At one point in the clip, Murray asks Michael if he's okay -- and Michael responds, "I am asleep."
The recording -- a clip of which Prosecutor David Walgren played during his opening statement -- was uncovered by investigators after they seized Murray's device.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 01:49:30 PM
I think he wanted to give them a sense of normalcy, it's never too late to try and do that.
Post by: Patricia on October 05, 2011, 01:56:53 PM
No one who is under delusions, admits "I'm sleeping." The most common is we insist that we are lucid, is not it? :oops:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 01:59:51 PM
<img src="http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio2.jpg">
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 02:02:43 PM
An examination of prescriptions written by Dr. Conrad Murray revealed an abundance of orders for a patient named Omar Arnold. Was that his alias for Michael Jackson? It certainly seems so, though it's yet to be confirmed on the witness stand.
The testimony of Stephen Marx, a computer forensics analyst, is turning up plenty of fresh information about both Dr. Murray and Jackson. Drug orders, who was filling them, how often they were made. And it's also apparently revealed the pop star's pseudonym.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 05, 2011, 02:06:56 PM
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 05, 2011, 02:10:32 PM
Or...Maybe Michael was under hypnosis!??
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 02:12:45 PM
Gotta love it!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 02:14:04 PM
Heal the World
And The Dream We Were
Conceived In
Will Reveal A Joyful Face
And The World We
Once Believed In
Will Shine Again In Grace
Then Why Do We Keep
Strangling Life
Wound This Earth
Crucify Its Soul
Though It's Plain To See
This World Is Heavenly
Be God's Glow
we are the world
We can't go on
Pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of
God's great big family
And the truth, you know love is all we need
When you're down and out
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well, well, let us realize
That a change will only come
When we stand together as one
The Lost Children
When you sit there addressing, counting your blessings
Biding your time
When you lay me down sleeping and my heart is weeping
Because I’m keeping a place
Will You Be there
Weary
Tell Me Will You Hold Me
When Wrong, Will You Scold Me
When Lost Will You Find Me?
But They Told Me
A Man Should Be Faithful
And Walk When Not Able
And Fight Till The End
But I'm Only Human
Everyone's Taking Control Of Me
Seems That The World's
Got A Role For Me
I'm So Confused
Will You Show To Me
You'll Be There For Me
And Care Enough To Bear Me
<b>in Our Darkest Hour
In My Deepest Despair
Will You Still Care?
Will You Be There?
In My Trials
And My Tribulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain
Through My Joy And My Sorrow
In The Promise Of Another Tomorrow
I'll Never Let You Part
For You're Always In My Heart.</b>
that last paragraph gave me chills....I've heard that song 100000 times and now it makes more sense than ever to me....he's giving us a message
Post by: Andrea on October 05, 2011, 02:26:27 PM
"Dramatic testimony today ... suggesting there were strong signs Michael Jackson's health was deteriorating days before his death.
Stephen Marx -- the forensic expert who analyzed Dr. Conrad Murray's iPhone -- uncovered a voicemail message in which Michael Jackson's manager referred to "an episode" MJ had five days before he died.
Prosecutors played the June 20th message during Marx's testimony -- in which Michael's manager Frank DiLeo says, "I'm sure you're aware [Michael] had an episode last night."
Frank clearly believed Michael had a drug problem, claiming, "He's sick. I think you need to get a blood test on him. We gotta see what he's doing."
You'll recall ... Kenny Ortega and others talked about MIchael's heath problems during rehearsal on June 19, 2009, which triggered a confrontation between Ortega and Murray at MJ's house the next day."
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/05/people-vs-dr-conrad-murray-investigators-testify-iphone-slurred-recording-michael-jackson-stephen-marx/
What's weird is I had checked their site a few minutes ago and they had a last line "FYI - Frank Dileo passed away on August 24, 2011 due to complications following heart surgery." Or something to that effect. It was the first time I had seen TMZ acknowledge Dileo's death and then they took that line out. Why??
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 02:42:13 PM
Post by: Grace on October 05, 2011, 02:43:43 PM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497)}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320)}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#%21/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
This was TS's « Reply #666 on: October 03, 2011, 09:31:32 PM »
Running back into my box....
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 02:48:02 PM
HLN's Valdez is finally convinced MJ wasn't a pedophile....she says by hearing the recording, its a "vindication" for her and that maybe we really didnt know MJ at all....
i think this is what MJ is trying to get across...
Post by: melody on October 05, 2011, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: ImperfectAngel
Why does Dr Murray always seem to record all his conversations with Michael?
Yeah, aside from hoax purposes, why would he randomly record Michael? Is that a common thing for doctors to do? Or maybe he found it funny and wanted to replay it for him? I don't know. :|
edit: I just thought of another parallel: back in 1993, Jordie Chandler made the allegations after his father sedated him with sodium amytal AKA amobarbital AKA "truth serum". I guess the significance here is: people believed Jordie told the truth; likewise, the public should also believe Michael is telling the truth (in this recording) because he's also sedated/hypnotized just like Jordie.
Interesting fact: any testimony made under the "truth serum" is not admissible in court; being under the influence of a "truth serum" does not guarantee any truth-telling.
Quote
The Supreme Court decided in 1963 that a truth serum-induced confession was unconstitutionally coerced. More recently, state courts have found truth serum-induced testimony to be scientifically unreliable and inadmissible.
Also strange: why did Murray take screenshots of his iPhone inbox? why take screenshots while simultaneously writing an email? Do people normally do this? To be honest, the latter looks like a mistake, but the other two seem intentional. I personally don't screencap my inbox, nor when it updates, which is why it may seem out of the ordinary to me confused/
There's a possibility that he took the screenshots by mistake every single time, but that seems like a noob mistake like when I first started using my iPhone. After a while, that doesn't "just happen" because you become aware that the phone takes a screenshot when you hold the home button and power button at the same time; the power button is located on the top edge of the phone while the home button is located on the front surface of the phone and it's indented. Again, unlikely to make that blunder if you've been using the iPhone for a while. Either that or he has really big hands and the only way for him to comfortably rest his hands around his phone and type at the same time is to have his index finger wrapped around the edge so that it rests on the power button while keeping his thumb near the home button. But if that really were the problem, he could just rotate the phone and type horizontally (much more comfortable, much more space) then turn it back to read the email vertically (http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll19/WhiteAngel50000/confused.gif) I'm overthinking, aren't I?
I'm tempted to say he's doing it intentionally for the sake of creating a solid timeline. If Murray waited a whole hour or so before calling 911, then 11:17am was around the time Michael went into arrest, right ? So they'll say "HA! You were writing emails while Michael lay dying! You abandoned him and thereby are responsible for killing him!". A guilty verdict as oppose to "not guilty" is what will help prove the incompetence/corruption of the court, right? if Michael wants to guarantee the guilty verdict, he needs to have a solid timeline to incriminate his fall guy. But then Murray at that point would fail to be a metaphor for Michael, only in the sense that the verdicts would be different.
The prosecution's own timeline in the 2005 trial is what helped the jurors decide Michael was not guilty. Maybe Michael thought of adding that parallel while planning the hoax/sting, except that in this case it "proves" that Murray is "guilty"? Or maybe in the end they'll use the timeline to prove he was innocent like in 05' with Michael.
edit: Because of the 300k limit, I'll have to post this picture instead of attach it
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/945am.jpg)
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Which leads us to....could it be possible for him to be Murray? Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field.
Am I being ignored? Did you read what I wrote on the 31st page? I wrote many times on this forum that I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW this stuff. And seriously it is pissing me off that noone seems to care what I say.
I'll be keeping things to myself now on because it is like being a doctor, coming to this forum and writing what you know about CPR and noone cares about it and keep on writing what they think about the issue. I'm so much offended. Anyways... I wrote the truth and people can enjoy their time dreaming about Murray is Michael. Talking in general here, not at you Bethechange.
I read what you wrote and it makes perfect sense to me. I think that Murray represents Michael in the hoax but that's it. bearhug
Thank you so much Mish. bearhug
PS> @PureLove.....I LOVE your posts...I am sorry you feel badly and think nobody cares :? I can very much relate. I just chalk it up to the board moving so quickly that posts get moved off the first page. I think many people don't take the time to begin reading from where they left off. Ultimately, they are missing huge sections of great thoughts. I am sorry for your frustrations.....feel free to poke around, it will make you feel better, lol. The Pokester has gone missing these days...too busy with court perhaps, lol. Have a good day PureLove........
lolol/ Thank you so much. I feel better already thanks to you guys. bearhug
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 05, 2011, 03:33:20 PM
Just want to clarify my post above...
Of course, as someone who has loved MJ my whole life...hearing him talk about his hurt and lack of childhood...always pierces my heart. What I don't feel bad about is what the media is already focusing on....his state (i.e. being drugged). They are not even talking about the 'message'...just that he was drugged out of his mind (yet was able to string together sentences with coherent pronou_ciation (lol) and a meaningful message :? )
The recording was 4 min and 12 seconds = once again, lucky #7 ;)
EDIT: They just played it again (they will keep playing it)...if you listen closely, his speech becomes more clear towards the end of the recording. For someone under so much influence of drugs...who is in the process of getting knocked out (falling asleep)...it makes no sense that he would become more coherent and understandable right before falling asleep....it would be the opposite.
With L.O.V.E. always.
HLN says the recording shows Michael 'as genuine and vulnerable" and "a victim".
And also with this entire recording, you can really tell its been distorted because Conrad's voice just doesn't match. It sounds like it was put in later. And like someone mentioned, at the end (13 sec) Are You Okay? (8 sec) I am asleep. 13+8=21. 777!!!!! I think our biggest concern in this forum has always been if MJ is okay. Well, from this recording, I hear MJ saying he's (not dead) asleep. Someone may look dead when they are in fact asleep. Or in Michael's case, saying he's asleep when he's awake.
party/
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 03:54:41 PM
@PureLove...
What I meant in the part of my post that you quoted, bolded, and enlarged...was explained further in the sentence that followed it. I may have missed certain members, but I have yet to come across any member who has claimed to be a SCIENTIST working on leading/cutting edge technology. IF Murray is Mike (and I concede, as I always have, that this would be difficult to pull off)...then we're not talking about regular special effects, or film design, or behind the scenes technical experience...we're talking technology (IF a mask is being used)...that very few are specialized in, or have been exposed to, because it would be NEW...cutting edge technology.
There is not such a technology.
You are very adamant that it is NOT possible...and based on your knowledge, that is your truth....and you have every right to state your opinion. You said that no one pays attention to your reasons for thinking it's not possible (which, again, you are mistaken because I do pay attention)..
Bethechange, what I bolded in your post is
Quote
"Technically, I have no clue...I'm nowhere near qualified to speak on the matter. The reason I said none of us are...is because having been on this forum for almost 2 years, I've yet to come across anyone who is qualified in THIS sort of field"
So, for better understanding, I didn't say that people do not pay attention because I do not think it is possible. I have no clue how you came to that conclusion. I said that, I'm in the film business (I'm a feature film scriptwriter) and people keep on writing about this disguise issue, like I didn't explain how it is not possible AS a person in this job. And when you wrote, there is NOONE on this forum qualified to speak on this matter, I was like WTF?? Because just a page ago I explained it. That's what I was offended. Not because I think people do not care because I say the opposite they think. Hope we're clear about that now.
but you also have closed the door on it having any possibility...therefore, you are not considering the posts that suggest Murray could be Mike. 90% of this hoax, at this point, is theory...for us to get upset over trying to prove we are 'right' and someone is 'wrong'...will only lead to a very bumpy ride lol. Instead, I prefer to remain open to any and every possibility...but that's just me.
Let's say that you're a doctor and you come to the forum and explain how CPR can be done but people keep on talking that it can be done on the LEG. Would you still think that it can be possible to do CPR on the leg or would you close the door on it having a possibility?
Being in this hoax for 2 years, and with my own knowledge and my own gut feelings, I am very well aware what can be a Fact and what can be a possibility in this hoax. And if I am sure that something has no possibility, I do not like to enjoy the idea and dream about it. It's such a waste of time imo.
If we were having this convo in person, I'd give you a hug right now PureLove...so here's a virtual one bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
Thank you. Big HUGS to you too. bearhug
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 04:11:31 PM
P.S. @PureLove...
If Mike had come to you because of your experience in the film biz...and told you he wanted to create a never-before-seen 'illusion' that would require him to be much larger in size (height, weight, bone structure, etc)...would you have turned him away saying "Nope...it's impossible...can't be done". Or would you have researched and networked with people in trying to turn this dream into a reality for Mike?
Michael is an expert in this area and I'm 100% sure that he knows very well what can and can NOT be done with the technology. The limit can be the sky but still there is a limit. Even for Michael.
IF Mike did approach anyone with this request...I would bet a shitload of money on that person moving heaven and hell to at least TRY to see if it could be done...despite thinking it's impossible. In fact, I honestly believe that the relationship between Mike and anyone who would tell him that something is impossible...would be a short-lived relationship (the very word 'impossible' slams the door on creativity, innovation, and vision). We see evidence of this in TII...with all the technical, costume, directing, etc people...going 'way outta the box' to try to make Mike's visions a reality...visions, that for the most part, had never been done before.
Well, I'm a certain and straight person and I do not like to make people wait and delay things with saying something can be possible while it is not possible. You can pay trillions of money but that wouldn't make a 5'9 man a 6'3 man with a simple mask. You need to add extra legs, arms, hands etc. You can also make someone look taller with the camera angle or with visual effects but NOT with masks. You can make a young person an old guy or a thin guy a fat guy etc...
And someone who knows about this stuff already know what to ask when he works with the professionals. I didn't like the way you wrote "the relationship between Mike and anyone who would tell him that something is impossible...would be a short-lived relationship", because I felt like you are mentioning me because I'm the one who says that it is impossible. Actually it is NOT me who is saying it, I'm just trying to explain the technology at the moment. I didn't say that it is always going to stay like this. No. The technology is developping every single day. But with today's technology it is not possible. And Michael is an expert in this area and he would know what to ask and not to ask, what is possible and not possible in this issue. So no need to exaggerate it I think.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 04:30:19 PM
The issue for me was resolved right after I replied to your post...but I'm glad you replied to my posts. It's clear that we don't agree on certain things and that we see things differently...and that's ok...we can't all agree all the time. You make it clear, once again, that you stand by your beliefs as FACT...and as I said in my earlier post, that is your right. I stand by my posts in saying that I choose to remain open about any 'theory'. I hope we can agree to disagree ::P
Given that this hoax is full of theories, though, there will be times when we may not like and/or agree with some of the things discussed. IMO just because we may not agree with or like a certain 'theory', doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. I hope we can also agree on that.
I also hope that you didn't interpret anything I wrote as a personal attack on you. I realize that it's difficult to 'feel' someone's intentions, at times, through a forum...but rest assured that in no way did I mean to offend you. In the 2 years that I have been on this forum, I can't think of one post where I intentionally meant to offend, insult, demean, or make fun of another member....and it will continue to be that way even if that requires ending a conversation.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Sarahli on October 05, 2011, 04:37:38 PM
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 05, 2011, 04:53:51 PM
Murray was so happy last night! Neither seems bored of the same court. smiley_spider
Post by: Andrea on October 05, 2011, 04:56:59 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 05:09:59 PM
@PureLove...I'm glad you're feeling better ::P
You make it clear, once again, that you stand by your beliefs as FACT...and as I said in my earlier post, that is your right.
I think it is not still clear that what I'm writing is NOT my BELIEF but a FACT about today's film industry. We should make the difference of it well. Of course noone has to take a professional's words as a fact and they can keep on doing the CPR on the leg and not on the chest. :mrgreen:
Given that this hoax is full of theories, though, there will be times when we may not like and/or agree with some of the things discussed. IMO just because we may not agree with or like a certain 'theory', doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. I hope we can also agree on that.
I am open to ALL theories as long as they have a possibility and not debunked with facts. And I personally have no problem people having different ideas on a possible theory as long as it has a possibility. I'm not going to keep on writing how this can not be possible and I personally do not mind people writing their own opinions no matter how weird, impossible, or illogical they are. But the doctor example of mine was enough for me to explain my situation. I tried to explain it to help people understand the issue. It depends on them to get it or to close their eyes to it. It's all ok with me.
I also hope that you didn't interpret anything I wrote as a personal attack on you. I realize that it's difficult to 'feel' someone's intentions, at times, through a forum...but rest assured that in no way did I mean to offend you. In the 2 years that I have been on this forum, I can't think of one post where I intentionally meant to offend, insult, demean, or make fun of another member....and it will continue to be that way even if that requires ending a conversation.
With L.O.V.E. always.
It's all ok BeTheChange. We're together in this. We're a family. We need to focus on other more important things going on at the trial instead of talking about a not possible theory in my humble opinion. And it looks like today is an interesting day at the trial. Double elephants, a chimp... The circus is going on. :mrgreen:
Post by: Grace on October 05, 2011, 05:10:16 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/05/article-2045543-0E3C04C100000578-460_308x628.jpg)
Murray was so happy last night! Neither seems bored of the same court. smiley_spider
NPG being the copyrighters doesn't indicate that the date published may be in fact the date of shooting the pic. We've had that before. Could be an older pic, especially because the child doesn't really grow in the course of time.
Post by: PureLove on October 05, 2011, 05:13:22 PM
^^ Looks like peacock earrings...
Peacock!!! YES! :mrgreen:
/bravo/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 05, 2011, 06:02:39 PM
lolol/
Post by: Vietnow on October 05, 2011, 06:48:36 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 05, 2011, 07:07:47 PM
<img src="http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio1.jpg (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio1.jpg)">
<img src="http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio2.jpg (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mjaudio2.jpg)">
Interesting what he says Murray in this recording
I know you would
Mmnh-mmnh
Mmnh-mmnh WTF??
Mmnh-mmnh
you okay suspicious//
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 05, 2011, 07:09:56 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/05/article-2045543-0E3C04C100000578-460_308x628.jpg)
Murray was so happy last night! Neither seems bored of the same court. smiley_spider
NPG being the copyrighters doesn't indicate that the date published may be in fact the date of shooting the pic. We've had that before. Could be an older pic, especially because the child doesn't really grow in the course of time.
The baby's socks and black shoes! Looks like a little MJ lolol/
Post by: paula-c on October 05, 2011, 07:11:30 PM
The trial err.. circus continues! Just wanted to post the other and bigger elephant! bounce/
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
The elephant is growing.... :lol: /judge/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 05, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
i laughed so hard at that. This hoax is getting really good!
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 05, 2011, 07:29:23 PM
I was dizzy with so many drugs shown by the prosecution. geek/
Michael managed to shock the media with all those drugs, but the fans were shocked and cried with the voice recording.
And there's more to come. errrr
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 05, 2011, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
@Souza-I have reviewed the video Sarahli provided for me on the subject of People's 31 and 32 exhibits. People's exhibit 31 is the cd of the 911 call. People's exhibit 32 is the transcript of the 911 call. Each juror was given a copy of the transcript and was told by the judge to write 32 on it as well as their seat number. The judge is a stickler for making sure the jury and everyone else who is watching understands what he is saying. He kept repeating the number to the jury so there would be no mistake. It is no different than when he ends the day with the laundry list of DONT'S to the jury. [blink]The 31 and 32 have nothing to do with the CA state seal[/blink]. I qouted BeTheChange also because her answer was right.
Are you referring to the number of stars shown on the seal(during live feed) when court is not in session?
IF it has nothing to do with the state seal then why would there be a need to show a fake one?
Did you read all of the quoted messages? If you did then you would understand my answer. In this answer you quoted I was giving Souza the explanation of the Judges emphasis on the numbers 31 and 32. Those numbers correspond to People's exhibits. The judge was not referring to the stars. I have no idea why there is 32 stars maybe someone could call and find out. smiley_spider
Uhm... I KNOW he was talking about exhibits. I was watching and listening at the moment and I KNOW he wasn't randomly talking to the jury about the stars on the seal. Why do you think that? I explained what I meant with it, but I will do it again:
The judge payed the MOST attention to these two exhibits. Coincidentally, these numbers are the numbers on the seals (31: real, 32: fake or copy).
You can say that it has nothing to do with it, but that's just your opinion and not fact. I think the coincidence is too big here, that is why I pointed it out and if you want to debunk it, you gotta come with more than just an opinion.
And someone already called, it's somewhere in the thread.
@Souza-The way I wrote my opinion about the judge and the exhibits must of came across wrong to you because I wasn't writing my answer to you as if you didn't know. I had not seen that part during the trial so I had to watch it on the video Sarahli posted. I explained my interpretation of his wording. I am not trying to debunk your interpretation of the judge placing emphasis on the numbers. I can't explain why he chose to be all excited about repeating 32 and I can't explain why the CA state seal has 32 stars. As you say though it is a coincidence but a big one, lol.
About the phone call Monstertooty made I don't think the place that was called would be able to answer that correctly regarding a trial that is in the courthouse. I think calling the TV station or the actual courthouse and asking them would be the better idea.
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 05, 2011, 07:44:37 PM
This message is to show the real Michael. Who loves his children, who feels the pain of an unhappy childhood, who want to excel as an artist and that is a great philanthropist who loves children.
No one who is under delusions, admits "I'm sleeping." The most common is we insist that we are lucid, is not it? :oops:
I think this was exactly the intention.
From what I read in these last hours, the media is saying that Michael was an addict, but he's always been a philanthropist and worried about the children.
"Discover the man you never knew!"
And he said, I am asleep!
Yeah ... Michael is asleep for 99% of the world!
Post by: Happy100 on October 05, 2011, 08:15:35 PM
Post by: RK on October 05, 2011, 08:38:46 PM
Is that a toy cat in front of the plant next to the lap top?The trial err.. circus continues! Just wanted to post the other and bigger elephant! bounce/
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
The elephant is growing.... :lol: /judge/
Post by: paula-c on October 05, 2011, 09:08:30 PM
Is that a toy cat in front of the plant next to the lap top?The trial err.. circus continues! Just wanted to post the other and bigger elephant! bounce/
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4038/elephant2.jpg)
The elephant is growing.... :lol: /judge/
No, look at the red circle, in the end and to the side of the flag rr/
Post by: RK on October 05, 2011, 09:17:55 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 09:27:37 PM
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/weird2.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/weird.jpg">
Post by: paula-c on October 05, 2011, 09:38:21 PM
Yes I see that big elephant Paula. But there's a white cat in front of the plant next to the lap top as well. :geek:
I do not see , i need something like this lolol/
(http://static.photaki.com/buscando--version-en-espanol-480394.jpg)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 05, 2011, 09:40:49 PM
Guys, do you see anything in particular about the photo of Michael. Take a look at the wrist and go up the arm. Do you notice that the elbow seems a little bigger. And I want to let you guys know something. Not to long ago I was picked for Jury Duty and got select as a juror for a criminal trial. With everything that has been going on with the Michael Jackson Situation with the courts and all. I became more observant in the courtroom. And let me tell you couple of things: There were not toys in the courtroom. What was also interesting was that this was a case of a criminal possession of drugs and weapons and the Prosecutor was arrogant in his thinking because he had the evidence( there were a lot of evidence) you would not believe but there were photos also. So there was a lot of evidences in which the Prosecutor that was enough to convict. So as the trial went on the prosecutor got more and more arrogant and sometimes is innuendoes was very inappropriate. As the witness presented their side of the story, it got to be more interesting. Because some of the basic procedures seems like they were overlooked and some of the eyewitness testimony had some holes in it. We were able to see all of the evidences and it was time for deliberations: what everyone agree upon was a not guilty verdict. Mainly because out of all the evidences that was presented there was no evidences to link the accusing of the crime. There was one instance during the deliberations that we request the photos. One of the photo consist of a lock and a key. What was so interesting about this photo was that the set of keys that was presented in court did not concide with the photo. We all examine the photo carefully and was able to point out the inconsistences in the photo. The keys were not the same and that the keys that was claimed to fit the lock did not fit. Only one of the 2 keys fit the lock. It was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I also want to let you know that there were additional evidences at the scene of the crime that was not taken in by the police that will help them with their further investigation. So the important thing is this ALL THE EVIDENCE IN THE WORLD CANNOT CONVICT SOMEONE IF THERE IS NO LINK TO THE ACCUSER. AND DO NOT ALWAYS BELIEVE WHAT YOU HEAR OR SAY. TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF THE REAL TRUTH NOT WHAT SOMEONE WANT YOU TO BELIEVE. This experience of Jury Duty was an eye-opener for me. An Innocent person would have going to prison for something he did not do. Our Judicial System needs to be cleaned up a little bit more.
Thank you for sharing your story! bearhug It's horrible what lengths people will go thru.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 05, 2011, 10:56:12 PM
Looking at this picture with out the green hue what do you all see? What do you all think? Real corpse/body made to look like MJ? A staged picture where MJ actually posed for it? Not a real human but a wax dummy and staged?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofolbottle-1.jpg)
I can not see the slit in the saline bag. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/bottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramatic-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/shitloadofbottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/3dmeds-1.jpg)
LMAO at the 3d effect. Those of us who were in chat when this photo was shown noticed the leaves and thought of TS and his leaf pattern in the ambulance picture. ;)
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 05, 2011, 11:10:35 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 05, 2011, 11:33:31 PM
Post by: bec on October 05, 2011, 11:38:29 PM
@Im_convinced, a dead dude never looked so good. Personally I think MJ hopped up on the stretcher for the pic. It's a parallel to the hyperbaric chamber pic from 1987. I'm going off pattern of behavior and considering the documented personality quirks of the individual on that one; same instincts that led me here in the first place.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 05, 2011, 11:56:23 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 05, 2011, 11:59:30 PM
If, hypothetically, the DEA is involved in all this and is engaging in a 'sting' operation...yesterday's testimony from Lopez and today's testimony from Hirschberg has been (conveniently) minimized and pretty much ignored due to yesterday's parade of girlfriends and today's tape. Could be one of the reasons for the 'drama' these past two days....if there is a 'sting', it would have to build slowly....maybe the 'drama' was intentional.
The info that was revealed by those two testimonies was very subtle...almost so subtle that you'd miss it if you blinked. Or if you are relying on the 'media' to pick up on it.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @Souza..."iPad dude" :lol:
Post by: msgitm on October 06, 2011, 01:05:32 AM
Why is TS speaking in the third person? Anyone?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/KC.jpg)
Finally … it’s time for level 6! /bravo/ /woohoo/
This level will be a combination of the previous levels, plus new information that we get during the trial. Any category of evidence is acceptable in this level; and some of the things from the previous levels will no doubt be important for this level. The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7. :shock: bounce/ :shock:
Since some are still not sure if TS has advance or inside information: notice that on May 1, while many were expecting the trial to start at that time, I said “hearings” and not “trial” (which Souza noticed); and indeed, there have been some hearings since May 1 {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.0.html)}. And on August 29, while some were still thinking that there might never be any trial, I said “there will be a trial” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20261.0.html)}.
If anyone needs a good laugh, to help you get through the trial, take a look at the comments about the 777 bottles of propofol kicking around on the floor {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356274.html#msg356274); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356290.html#msg356290); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20493.msg356339.html#msg356339)}.
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol: ) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court). In the previous levels, I have not had time to answer many of the comments; and frequently the comments are off topic, or repetition from those who haven’t read everything in the thread. So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive; hopefully this will make things more efficient. bangbang bangbang
Let the hopping begin!
/judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/ /judge/
Also, I just checked TIAI and got redirected to TS's post? TS... are you or the 3rd person doing this?
Lastly, why is this head rolling around without a body? mj_dance/
Post by: wishingstar on October 06, 2011, 01:06:30 AM
Yes....he is funny with that. It's almost like he just got it and is fascinated with the swiping action.......bright shiny object. You would think he'd be paying more attention to the trial and what is said exactly. Maybe he's recording it on the IPad....
there was a picture up he kept swiping at. I'd love to know exactly what he's looking at.
Post by: msgitm on October 06, 2011, 01:09:26 AM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 06, 2011, 01:11:13 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 06, 2011, 01:20:07 AM
@Souza ~ I'd like to know who the corpse is sitting to Murray's left? His eyebrows look like MJ's in Ghost. The scary MJ, not the mayor.
That is his other main lawyer J. Michael Flanagan
Post by: BeTheChange on October 06, 2011, 01:33:26 AM
@BeTheChange-I really hope you are speaking about the media not picking up on the 2 testimonies that would be relevant to a sting theory and your not referring to me. I did not see the first half of court today. I came online after lunch and got to see all the bottles and bags. Anyone can help do the sting theory it isn't just mine alone. smiley_spider
@Im_convinced...I, most definitely, was not referring to you. Why would I refer to you as the 'media'? :lol: I think you are doing a great job with the 'sting' theory (as I said in a previous post and meant it)...especially since it is more difficult, at this stage anyway, to prove any sort of 'sting' if there is one (and I think there is 'glimpses' of possible 'stings' that are going on...but they're very subtle).
I do hope this clears that up for you and I thank you for asking for clarification before assuming to know what I meant.
bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. Does anyone know if Applied Pharmacy still ships to residences? I need sleep!!! /scream/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 06, 2011, 01:54:09 AM
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
Post by: chappie on October 06, 2011, 02:51:39 AM
So after treatment by dr Conny a nice vacation in the sun?
Conny should have known that Mike had to stay away from the sun.
Where the hell was his umbrella!
Bad bad Doc!
Anyone a cup of /cook/ ?
Post by: RK on October 06, 2011, 02:59:47 AM
For a dead Mike he has a nice tan. mj_dance/Yes chappie,I was just thinking similarly... MJ has a lovely, healthy skin tone and complexion in this photo, except for that hand...so he must have wore a glove in the sun at least. ::P
So after treatment by dr Conny a nice vacation in the sun?
Conny should have known that Mike had to stay away from the sun.
Where the hell was his umbrella!
Bad bad Doc!
Anyone a cup of /cook/ ?
Post by: applehead250609 on October 06, 2011, 04:36:39 AM
5'11" to 6'3" is only 4 inches. Make the head a little higher and add some heels and it's done. But Murray is not MJ in court (although very possibly on other occasions). What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
Souza and PureLove I'm with you both, Murray is NOT Michael.I want to write down what PureLove told us some time ago because I think is very important.Not only for this case,but for the 2005 "trial" also,because it brings BACK agian Michael's height,which always was an ENIGMA for all of us.Please bear with me, because I think this is very important.
PurteLove:
Quote
As one of the ones who do not believe Murray is Michael in disguise, I wanted to answer this. No, these do not make it any real. I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW these kind of masks, prosthetic make up etc and I KNOW as a fact that it is not possible to make a 5'9 man a 6'3 man. You need to add extra arms, fake hands to keep the balance btw the length of the arms and the body. And when you do that, you need to feed the vision of that person with some video effects because he can not use his hands like his own hands. It's easy to create new faces and even bodies as long as you keep the lenght of the person same. You can make him look taller or shorter but you need to do it with visual effects. Wish I could explain it better in english and trying it but this is all I can do. You need to add extra arms and legs to make him 6'3 tall which would make him stand still and not move.
Now if I remember correct when Michael was arrested in 2005,"the police told us " Michael is 5'11'.But how is this possible,if Michael was clearly shorter?????? We are talking about police and a serious arrest here,not some kind of check routine for staffing,lol ::).This makes you wonder ,about many things regarding that trial,no?????
(http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/music/gallery/2008/aug/27/michaeljackson/2003-Arrest-rex_437054a-9180.jpg)
I'm a fan of Michael since childwood and for me he was never a very tall men.For most of the time when he was not performing ,I saw him with boots,and sometime with boots that had high heels.I dont know how many of here feels but I think that a tall men would never wear heels ,maybe a shorter one(like Prince) yes,but a taller one,NO.Here are some pictures from different era with Michael wearing boots:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/25/article-2030021-00EEBDBB00000190-128_634x602.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/25/article-0-00EEC98500000191-171_634x815.jpg)
(http://www.imbaha.com/images/lisa-marie-presley-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/Seven_Of_Nine/Michael%20Jackson%20Macros/Boots-1.jpg)
Michael is/was not 5'11',and maybe not even 5'9' also.
Height: 5 feet 2 inches tall
(http://putzle.com/files/2011/08/mj-frank-Dileo.png)
Height: 5' 9" (1.75 m)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/-7gBwRG-6YJk/S-P_2nCxCdI/AAAAAAAAWQ8/dVpIkbHZIJ0/018.jpg)
Height: 5' 4" Here she had high heels
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_xFP6s39OUYY/Sl8ReGvEpGI/AAAAAAAANu0/w-qiqZ7KHhw/Michael_Jackson_with_the_Reagans_thumb%5B1%5D.png)
(http://nativenotes.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mike-regan.jpg)
Height: 5' 7" (1.70 m)
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/specials/michaeljackson/kingofpop/michael-jackson-8.jpg)
Height: 5' 7" (1.70 m)
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktuwm0tMZk1qa3e65o1_500.jpg)
Height: 5' 9½" (1.77 m)
(http://mob1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb350/mjfan5/badtour439.jpg?t=1297383222)
HOW TALL WAS MICHAEL JACKSON REALLY?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pcf9BlWdc[/youtube]
Conclusion: Murray is not Michael,it just can't be!!!!
During this hoax Michael's height was always brought in our face,over and over again.Michael told us how tall he is in Moonwalk book,and after that we heard about his heigh during 2005 trial,during Michael arrest ,during autopsy release,and now with the "SHORT-dead" ::) WTF?? photo from hospital.I dont know about you my friends,but this to me it sounds very strange,and makes me wonder how real was everything that happend after THRILLER or BAD.
LOVE
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 06, 2011, 05:26:59 AM
To me Michael looks like he is somewhere between 1,75-1,80 - not taller than 1,80.
How tall is Lisa? If she's only 1,60 as I've heard, Michael can't be taller than 1,80.
Oh now I see Lisa is 1,57.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 06, 2011, 05:37:41 AM
Is he that short?
Post by: Adi on October 06, 2011, 07:20:19 AM
5'11" to 6'3" is only 4 inches. Make the head a little higher and add some heels and it's done. But Murray is not MJ in court (although very possibly on other occasions). What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
iPad dude.....he's just chillin'.... might be checking here on the forum....anyone see a suspicious orange banner on the iPad?
:lol: :lol:
Post by: Adi on October 06, 2011, 07:36:02 AM
Besides chopping his legs off did they also include his fingers in that action and transplant some little cocktail sausages in place of them?
...check out his fingers in that picture...zoom in on them lolol/
besides that MJ does indeed look pretty good for being "dead" ...looks like he could come alive and sit up on that gurney at any moment :mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Interesting day today - been catching up ready for Day 8. The new and bigger elephant in the room made an appearance!
Why the hell was the Prosecution allowed to take all the evidence out of the bags (I thought all those bottles would never stop :lol: ) and handle them without gloves....all his fingerprints would be all over those bottles....DEFINITELY a link to the 2005 trial I think!
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 06, 2011, 08:20:29 AM
Anyways, there are many pictures where he is short, and there are many pictures where he is tall. Jermaine says he is 5'9", his DL says 5'10", his mugshot says 5'11" and pictures say 5'7" - 5'11". So apparently it's not very difficult for this chameleon to appear whatever height he pleases. It has caused many WTF?? 's on this side of the screen.
Fol now I will go for 5'11" since the only reference that is reliable for me is Jennifer Batten, because she is the only one I actually stood next to, but I am not very sure, but Jermaine is said to be around 6'1" and I can't really believe Michael is 4 inches shorter. But I am always more puzzled than the regular American, since here in Holland Murray wouldn't be really that tall with 6'3", I live in a country full of giants so my perception of height is distorted. What would be helpful is a picture of Murray and Michael standing next to each other (yes that is a HINT for those reading here, maybe we can add that to the defense's exhibits in some way? :lol:
Anyways, just to point out that we can't know for sure if he can make himself appear 6'3". And I think we are pretty much fooled with the short people surrounding Murray (Chernoff and Nicole Alvarez). He sure knows how to create an optical illusion. I really think he played Murray at times and since Murray in court is scratching his face a little too much, I think 'Murray' is a mask anyway, so who is under that mask in the courtroom?
But who is iPad dude? seriously, is he part of the defense team or something? Has anyone seen him before?
As for yesterday's court session: I missed the beginning, but David fell off of my cute list. Looking good is not enough David, you are simply way too boring. And I think Fleak has a photographic memory, since she identified ALL of those bottles after two years as being the bottles she found on the scene. Those bottles all looked way too clean too. If they tested them for fingerprints before the but them in those bags, which have been closed until yesterday when David decided to open and label them one by one, then where is the black powder? After the burglary in my house, my stuff (what was left of it) was dirty, full of print powder. I didn't see anything like that on the bottles.
The picture was cleaned up, yet still of bad quality. These days you can even make clearer picture with your phone. But Mike, for a dead guy you look pretty good.
The recording is important, it's a big part of the reason for this hoax and it's the message he always tried to get across, but I don't think the media will actually listen, because they are too bent out of shape because of the slurred speech and Michael being a pathetic druggie who needed help. But when he was attacked in 1993 and 2005, they didn't think he needed help. Hypocrites.
Post by: paula-c on October 06, 2011, 08:42:08 AM
Hey TS, where are you? Are you still going to share your murder theory with us? Or are you unable to find supporting evidence? lolol/
Actually, I decided to give everybody one week to figure out the murder proof without my help. And indeed, bec did figure it out! "The pyramid is because the Illuminati killed him. TS was right" {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg359467.html#msg359467; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358497.html#msg358497}.
Also, this very same picture with the illuminati pyramid has no aura--which is the final undeniable proof that MJ is dead! {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358320.html#msg358320}.
Last but not least, on the same day that I started this thread about hoax court, sting court, or murder court, La Toya made it very clear which one is correct. “This is DEFINITELY A STRAIGHT MURDER TRIAL!!!!” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}. Now that settles it!! Obviously, La Toya has been watching TIAI; and that is why she gave her answer on the same day that I started this thread. So unless someone else comes up with a verified Jackson twitter, stating specifically that it is hoax court or sting court, then game over and I win!!!!
/toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/ /toldya/
So good writer who is TS and still not have developed his theory of murder, the only thing to say is this :'(
Post by: BeTheChange on October 06, 2011, 08:47:44 AM
It was mentioned by someone (can't remember who) on Nancy Disgrace's (God, I can't stand that woman :twisted: ) show last night....that in the state of Cali, it is a FELONY for a doc to record a patient without their consent. They did mention that, at this point anyway, we don't know if such a consent form exists since the defense has not presented their case yet. This may have already been mentioned on the forum somewhere, not sure cause there's too much to follow these days.
I guess we have to wait to see what the defense presents....but I'm thinking that if NO such consent form exists, then this might be a huge clue as to the DA being 'in on it' (whatever 'it' is lol). If there never was consent....and it is a felony to record a patient without it...then why didn't the DA charge Murray with this? It would've been a no-brainer, slam-dunk, case-closed win for them on that charge. We clearly hear the tape...they clearly presented it as MJ's voice without objection from the defense...so the 'proof' tying Murray to this 'felony' is abundant. Regardless of whatever 'reasons' Murray could come up with for recording Mike, as per the law it wouldn't matter because there was no consent.
I guess we just have to wait to see what the defense brings to the table (and I like the sunglasses idea :lol: )...but, at this point, it makes absolutely no sense at all for the DA's office to not have pursued these charges against Murray....unless 1) there is a consent form somewhere, 2) they are 'in on it', or 3) they are complete idiots.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Shining light on October 06, 2011, 09:17:51 AM
If you thought there was nothing more to say about Michael Jackson, just wait…
unauthorized biography of Michael Jackson
The paparazzi would not leave him alone
More allegations made against the performer
And what they did find was a series of lies
…about Michael Jackson
I am having fun watching this story UNFOLD before our eyes. The climax will show how foolish all these so called professional reporters and analyst's are . The lies were planted and they all are going with what they want the story to be,also did they really investigate as good as the hoax believer's I think not. The detectives on this case seem like the keystone cops. Can Murray be Michael in the flesh? I would not put anything past the master of disguise. As I believe he truly has been underestimated by the media and our judicial system as well. I can't wait till this story fully unfolds it will be a real shocker to the world ! /bravo/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 06, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
As the story unfolds…
If you thought there was nothing more to say about Michael Jackson, just wait…
unauthorized biography of Michael Jackson
The paparazzi would not leave him alone
More allegations made against the performer
And what they did find was a series of lies
…about Michael Jackson
I am having fun watching this story UNFOLD before our eyes. The climax will show how foolish all these so called professional reporters and analyst's are . The lies were planted and they all are going with what they want the story to be,also did they really investigate as good as the hoax believer's I think not. The detectives on this case seem like the keystone cops. Can Murray be Michael in the flesh? I would not put anything past the master of disguise. As I believe he truly has been underestimated by the media and our judicial system as well. I can't wait till this story fully unfolds it will be a real shocker to the world ! /bravo/
I think the message being played is getting vindication for Michael. The media thought they knew him, obviously they did not.
They don't want to weigh in on the fact he portrayed himself as a loving, caring person who absolutely LOVED children.
Right before the trial, the country was so fixated on Casey Anthony, who was accused of killing a child.
Now, another coincidence with all the IPHONE talking yesterday, Steve Jobs passes away...that is an eerie coincidence. You couldn't plan that one. I have a feeling there is SO much more to come.
This is bigger than anything we could ever imagine. His references about being "God's messenger", the more that comes out, the weirder this gets.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 10:07:04 AM
About the 'death' picture: by the look of it it's Mike himself, posing for this picture, although I do think some Adobe was used here and there. Looks pretty good for a dead guy. :lol:
Totally agree with Souza. It's MJ himself but still the picture looks photoshopped. It looks like they played with the hand, wrist and cut off the legs. lolol/
OR
They simply added Michael's face (except the mouth area) to a patient's body with photoshop. Both are possible.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 10:16:44 AM
@PureLove, you're assuming MJ is 5'9. I don't deny what you're saying in regards to your profession, but I do deny that you can safely assume what height MJ really is and then base your theory on what is impossible on that. I will ask, in your professional opinion, is it possible to make a disguised person 4" taller? I think of women wearing 4" heels and that is fairly common and normal and they don't look weird or out of proportion. I can only go off my real life personal experience, so I consult you on this one. 4", possible or no?
Hey bec sweets,
Well, we have talked about different heights of MJ, and the maximum of them is 5'11, right? I personally do not believe that Michael is taller than 5'9. So let's assume that he is 5'9 and let's assume that he used secret high heels; still you can not hide a 4 inch (10 cm) heel. Plus, we saw Murray's shoes many times and I do not see any place to hide the high heels in his shoes. If there wasn't a BIG difference btw Murray and Michael, I would definitely think that it could be him in disguise but when I compare the proportions of Murray and Michael, it is not possible whatever you use.
Post by: paula-c on October 06, 2011, 10:17:31 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-y_S2cit8cEI/To0x2voW_bI/AAAAAAAACeI/JOUilFquwzs)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eo2y1u6nMpA/To0xUM8zhnI/AAAAAAAACd8/rTuEkW1zN5o/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+5.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AbEBcFSY6oE/To0xgsVNZMI/AAAAAAAACeA/XaEfGJda8fg/s400/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+6.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iwOCHcDHPP0/To0yiA6nQII/AAAAAAAACeQ/_-tUCdGLLrQ/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+10.JPG)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T4hvz1gezyE/To0ytwVEBeI/AAAAAAAACeU/QBaWwCS9LqA/s400/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+11.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-46HZNsV5tjg/To0y3rauPkI/AAAAAAAACeY/GbYSopSHM4M/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+12.JPG)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zwiaLsMZNZE/To0zCvvgswI/AAAAAAAACec/c-It1Swor-Q/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+13.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q97XPFkGjIY/To0zOPSMt3I/AAAAAAAACeg/K5DjX95f6qU/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+14.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rX_PxtLfJAk/To0zkV8NUoI/AAAAAAAACeo/IZdsVpdGHw0/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+17.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-s7k91klNCr0/To00Zwq7RtI/AAAAAAAACe4/YGXbreLmbV4/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+21.JPG)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Op0EVDOzZDI/To00HeE_55I/AAAAAAAACew/oFE3CRh6T9M/s640/MJ+2011+Trial+coroner+photo+19.JPG)
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 10:24:33 AM
What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
TS! :lol: He is checking out us and the chat. :mrgreen:
Post by: bec on October 06, 2011, 10:26:29 AM
@PureLove, you're assuming MJ is 5'9. I don't deny what you're saying in regards to your profession, but I do deny that you can safely assume what height MJ really is and then base your theory on what is impossible on that. I will ask, in your professional opinion, is it possible to make a disguised person 4" taller? I think of women wearing 4" heels and that is fairly common and normal and they don't look weird or out of proportion. I can only go off my real life personal experience, so I consult you on this one. 4", possible or no?
Hey bec sweets,
Well, we have talked about different heights of MJ, and the maximum of them is 5'11, right? I personally do not believe that Michael is taller than 5'9. So let's assume that he is 5'9 and let's assume that he used secret high heels; still you can not hide a 4 inch (10 cm) heel. Plus, we saw Murray's shoes many times and I do not see any place to hide the high heels in his shoes. If there wasn't a BIG difference btw Murray and Michael, I would definitely think that it could be him in disguise but when I compare the proportions of Murray and Michael, it is not possible whatever you use.
All assumptions aside, I'm asking, in your professional opinion (because I do defer to that), is it possible to make someone 4" taller for the sake of movie magic and disguise?
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 10:38:43 AM
@PureLove, you're assuming MJ is 5'9. I don't deny what you're saying in regards to your profession, but I do deny that you can safely assume what height MJ really is and then base your theory on what is impossible on that. I will ask, in your professional opinion, is it possible to make a disguised person 4" taller? I think of women wearing 4" heels and that is fairly common and normal and they don't look weird or out of proportion. I can only go off my real life personal experience, so I consult you on this one. 4", possible or no?
Hey bec sweets,
Well, we have talked about different heights of MJ, and the maximum of them is 5'11, right? I personally do not believe that Michael is taller than 5'9. So let's assume that he is 5'9 and let's assume that he used secret high heels; still you can not hide a 4 inch (10 cm) heel. Plus, we saw Murray's shoes many times and I do not see any place to hide the high heels in his shoes. If there wasn't a BIG difference btw Murray and Michael, I would definitely think that it could be him in disguise but when I compare the proportions of Murray and Michael, it is not possible whatever you use.
All assumptions aside, I'm asking, in your professional opinion (because I do defer to that), is it possible to make someone 4" taller for the sake of movie magic and disguise?
You can make a midget look like 5'8 when it comes to the magic of the film making. As I explained before, different camera angles and visual effects solve all problems. But with a mask/disguise in reality without the visual effects, it is not possible. You can definitely make a shorter person become taller BUT the shoes have to be different to hide a 4 inch heel. OR you can add extra prosthetic legs and arms which we never saw in Murray. We saw his legs and arms naked many times, and there is nothing attached to his legs.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 10:52:07 AM
5'11" to 6'3" is only 4 inches. Make the head a little higher and add some heels and it's done. But Murray is not MJ in court (although very possibly on other occasions). What I want to know is: Who the fuck is iPad dude? Sitting behind Ed every day, constantly checking and messaging on his iPad.
Souza and PureLove I'm with you both, Murray is NOT Michael.I want to write down what PureLove told us some time ago because I think is very important.Not only for this case,but for the 2005 "trial" also,because it brings BACK agian Michael's height,which always was an ENIGMA for all of us.Please bear with me, because I think this is very important.
PurteLove:QuoteAs one of the ones who do not believe Murray is Michael in disguise, I wanted to answer this. No, these do not make it any real. I'm in the film bizz and I KNOW these kind of masks, prosthetic make up etc and I KNOW as a fact that it is not possible to make a 5'9 man a 6'3 man. You need to add extra arms, fake hands to keep the balance btw the length of the arms and the body. And when you do that, you need to feed the vision of that person with some video effects because he can not use his hands like his own hands. It's easy to create new faces and even bodies as long as you keep the lenght of the person same. You can make him look taller or shorter but you need to do it with visual effects. Wish I could explain it better in english and trying it but this is all I can do. You need to add extra arms and legs to make him 6'3 tall which would make him stand still and not move.
Now if I remember correct when Michael was arrested in 2005,"the police told us " Michael is 5'11'.But how is this possible,if Michael was clearly shorter?????? We are talking about police and a serious arrest here,not some kind of check routine for staffing,lol ::).This makes you wonder ,about many things regarding that trial,no?????
(http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/music/gallery/2008/aug/27/michaeljackson/2003-Arrest-rex_437054a-9180.jpg)
I'm a fan of Michael since childwood and for me he was never a very tall men.For most of the time when he was not performing ,I saw him with boots,and sometime with boots that had high heels.I dont know how many of here feels but I think that a tall men would never wear heels ,maybe a shorter one(like Prince) yes,but a taller one,NO.Here are some pictures from different era with Michael wearing boots:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/25/article-2030021-00EEBDBB00000190-128_634x602.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/25/article-0-00EEC98500000191-171_634x815.jpg)
(http://www.imbaha.com/images/lisa-marie-presley-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/Seven_Of_Nine/Michael%20Jackson%20Macros/Boots-1.jpg)
Michael is/was not 5'11',and maybe not even 5'9' also.
Height: 5 feet 2 inches tall
(http://putzle.com/files/2011/08/mj-frank-Dileo.png)
Height: 5' 9" (1.75 m)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/-7gBwRG-6YJk/S-P_2nCxCdI/AAAAAAAAWQ8/dVpIkbHZIJ0/018.jpg)
Height: 5' 4" Here she had high heels
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_xFP6s39OUYY/Sl8ReGvEpGI/AAAAAAAANu0/w-qiqZ7KHhw/Michael_Jackson_with_the_Reagans_thumb%5B1%5D.png)
(http://nativenotes.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mike-regan.jpg)
Height: 5' 7" (1.70 m)
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/specials/michaeljackson/kingofpop/michael-jackson-8.jpg)
Height: 5' 7" (1.70 m)
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktuwm0tMZk1qa3e65o1_500.jpg)
Height: 5' 9½" (1.77 m)
(http://mob1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb350/mjfan5/badtour439.jpg?t=1297383222)
HOW TALL WAS MICHAEL JACKSON REALLY?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pcf9BlWdc[/youtube]
Conclusion: Murray is not Michael,it just can't be!!!!
During this hoax Michael's height was always brought in our face,over and over again.Michael told us how tall he is in Moonwalk book,and after that we heard about his heigh during 2005 trial,during Michael arrest ,during autopsy release,and now with the "SHORT-dead" ::) WTF?? photo from hospital.I dont know about you my friends,but this to me it sounds very strange,and makes me wonder how real was everything that happend after THRILLER or BAD.
LOVE
Great post Apple, thank you. :mrgreen: I personally do not believe Michael is any taller than 5'9. I'm almost at the same height with Lisa Marie, just an inch taller than her and when I compare the two of them, Michael can NOT be taller than 5'9 1.75 cm. My dad is also 5'9 and we have the same height difference like LMP and Michael have.
Post by: Vietnow on October 06, 2011, 11:00:53 AM
I think it is possible that the dead "Michael" on the hospital bed to be a double who died of a terminal illness.
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
If you think about it, the body on the gurney could very well be E'Casanova. He was supposedly diagnosed with a life threatening illness in 2007(?). I think he knew very well that he was going to pass and that was Michael's way of transitioning into the reality of the hoax. Or I am wrong.
Post by: Grace on October 06, 2011, 11:07:35 AM
Share Awakening on twitter:
Quote
It is the eye which makes the horizon. ♥ Emerson
Brilliant.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 11:15:30 AM
I think it is possible that the dead "Michael" on the hospital bed to be a double who died of a terminal illness.
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
If you think about it, the body on the gurney could very well be E'Casanova. He was supposedly diagnosed with a life threatening illness in 2007(?). I think he knew very well that he was going to pass and that was Michael's way of transitioning into the reality of the hoax. Or I am wrong.
E'cas is alive and fine.
Post by: Vietnow on October 06, 2011, 12:10:11 PM
I think it is possible that the dead "Michael" on the hospital bed to be a double who died of a terminal illness.
The eyelashes are too long too be natural to me.
With some makeup a double could look like a dead MJ.
If you think about it, the body on the gurney could very well be E'Casanova. He was supposedly diagnosed with a life threatening illness in 2007(?). I think he knew very well that he was going to pass and that was Michael's way of transitioning into the reality of the hoax. Or I am wrong.
E'cas is alive and fine.
Disregard then, lol. I'm behind on a lot of things. And not enough to time go back through it all.
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on October 06, 2011, 01:55:36 PM
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 06, 2011, 02:09:39 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 06, 2011, 02:19:17 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. I know this photo might upset some of you but it needs to be dissected. Bad choice of word. pale/ (http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)
Looking at this picture with out the green hue what do you all see? What do you all think? Real corpse/body made to look like MJ? A staged picture where MJ actually posed for it? Not a real human but a wax dummy and staged?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofolbottle-1.jpg)
I can not see the slit in the saline bag. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/bottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramatic-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/shitloadofbottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/3dmeds-1.jpg)
LMAO at the 3d effect. Those of us who were in chat when this photo was shown noticed the leaves and thought of TS and his leaf pattern in the ambulance picture. ;)
Wow! This thread is busier than a one legged zebra being chased by a pack of hyenas. lol
I will comment on this picture though, the skin tone is a big NO. MJ has a forehead, not a sixhead lol.
And this picture is more stretched out than Dolly Parton's sports bra.
lol I'm just saying.
Post by: jacilovesmichael on October 06, 2011, 02:19:39 PM
Guys, something is bugging me each time i "turn on" tmz for watching the trial. /pull hair/
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on October 06, 2011, 02:30:13 PM
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
Thanks, Jaci :| You know, I'm non- native English speaker so to me it's much more difficult to catch on all the details.... I know that many people would eagerly participate in a show like this. (I would) here are a lot of mistakes. They are always referring to Michael as Michael JOSEPH Jackson. Today, this guy from the laboratory had a thick file of "notes" (a script? :mrgreen: ) in front of him which was really funny.
What I mean is this - they must be real experts not actors - they seem so real as far as their medical knowledge is concerned. My worry is if there are so many people involved, doesn't MJ worry that someone will spill the beans? Will they keep the secret?
PS: Lol, I was hoping they will explain whatt Trauma Gershwin is. Did they do this?
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 02:37:32 PM
OMG! lolol/ Your classic! LOLDon't shoot the messenger. I know this photo might upset some of you but it needs to be dissected. Bad choice of word. pale/ (http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)
Looking at this picture with out the green hue what do you all see? What do you all think? Real corpse/body made to look like MJ? A staged picture where MJ actually posed for it? Not a real human but a wax dummy and staged?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofolbottle-1.jpg)
I can not see the slit in the saline bag. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/bottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramatic-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/shitloadofbottles-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/3dmeds-1.jpg)
LMAO at the 3d effect. Those of us who were in chat when this photo was shown noticed the leaves and thought of TS and his leaf pattern in the ambulance picture. ;)
Wow! This thread is busier than a one legged zebra being chased by a pack of hyenas. lol
I will comment on this picture though, the skin tone is a big NO. MJ has a forehead, not a sixhead lol.
And this picture is more stretched out than Dolly Parton's sports bra.
lol I'm just saying.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 02:51:55 PM
Guys, something is bugging me each time i "turn on" tmz for watching the trial. /pull hair/
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
Agree with Jaci. Susie, there's nothing to be depressed. Try to watch the trial on this forum with us. We chat and talk about the witnesses and even if you do not understand word by word what they're talking about, believers help you a lot to understand what's going on. I'm not a native english speaker and thanks to people on the chat, I understand what's really going on in the trial room. And plus, it's more fun to watch it with the group. :mrgreen: It was fun to watch Ms. Fleak today. She couldn't remember anything and Ed was about to slap her on the face. :lol:
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on October 06, 2011, 03:06:24 PM
One thing is for sure! When the trial ends, I will be missing it :D mj_bad/
Post by: MJonmind on October 06, 2011, 03:17:13 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 03:21:53 PM
Guys, something is bugging me each time i "turn on" tmz for watching the trial. /pull hair/
Is it possible all those people, I mean the witnesses, are actors and they are in on the hoax??? Or they are unaware...?
They seem so genuine and real... I can't sleep at night. I wake up thinking about it. /overreacting/
Who specifically seems real and genuine? Lol, because to me it's like watching auditions for a movie. Some are much better than others, of course. The thing is though, many of them don't have to be in on it and "acting" in order for this to be a hoax (which it clearly is). I don't think Michael had to do too much manipulating in many aspects because he simply knew those people would do their jobs. For example, when talking about the autopsy, an examiner wouldn't have to know that the body was for sure Michael Jackson's in order to tell the truth about what he/she examined. Just doing their job. That is assuming there was a body. If not, then yes a few would have to lie. But is it crazy to think that there might be a few people in the world with a soul willing to lie to help bring about something more important than their 9-5 job? I know I would participate if asked, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. Lots of options here as to how this is being pulled off...but the fact is, it's happening!
Agree with Jaci. Susie, there's nothing to be depressed. Try to watch the trial on this forum with us. We chat and talk about the witnesses and even if you do not understand word by word what they're talking about, believers help you a lot to understand what's going on. I'm not a native english speaker and thanks to people on the chat, I understand what's really going on in the trial room. And plus, it's more fun to watch it with the group. :mrgreen: It was fun to watch Ms. Fleak today. She couldn't remember anything and Ed was about to slap her on the face. :lol:
Oh I greatly enjoy the commentary from fellow believers! I wouldn't want to watch it anywhere else. I speak English and wonder at times what they are talking about LOL....PureLove and others alike, there are times I forget that you all are not native English speakers, your postings are spot on.
Post by: MissG on October 06, 2011, 03:22:44 PM
About the 'death' picture: by the look of it it's Mike himself, posing for this picture, although I do think some Adobe was used here and there. Looks pretty good for a dead guy. :lol:
YEEES
.
.
.
.
he looks like he just left the operating room and on the way to remove the tube.
Post by: MissG on October 06, 2011, 03:27:27 PM
/overreacting/ /overreacting/
ps. I really like the Judge, and well, the defense is also kind of sweet lately.
The last witness, the toxicologist, really made a CV resume...and explained very well how things are done. Everything is being very well explained.
Back in 2004-5 when they raided Michael´s house, some "pictures as evidence" were taken. Today we know that the people taking the pictures can move things, take wrong notes and a long etc.
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on October 06, 2011, 03:29:38 PM
However this body looks strange... that hand... suspicious//
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 06, 2011, 04:04:56 PM
There were no "street" drugs found in his system ( ecstasy, heroin, meth, cocaine)
no sedatives, no anti-depressants
( Zoloft, Xanax, Morphine, Percocet, Vicodin)
It's pretty sad when I know all the non-generic/generic names for this stuff...LOL ( my aunt and cousin are nurses ) /bravo/
Post by: MissG on October 06, 2011, 06:18:10 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 06, 2011, 06:49:30 PM
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 06, 2011, 06:50:38 PM
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
As for the witnesses: I don't think they are all in on it. The only ones that need to be in on it, are the ones present in the room on 6/25, plus the ones that allegedly have seen or handled the body. All the others might as well have been presented with a 'crime scene', tox reports, blood samples etc. If this court has an important purpose for whatever sting there is going on, then that can be done. I don't think that older lady from that pharmaceutical company is in on it, or the guy from AT&T for example. It's not necessary, and if it's not necessary, then no need to risk anything by letting more people in than needed. Which means some of the witnesses can be very convincing, or nervous, because they are actually stating what they witnessed, whatever that might have been.
I am still trying to come up with a possible sting target. Could be the pharmaceutical industry (biggest criminals in the world imo), could be against certain influential individuals/companies, I really don't know yet. That is for me still one of the biggest questions. Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be a big sting operation as in world shocking. Mike probably has more up his sleeve for the biggest shock the world has ever felt. The sting could be simply an addition (although an important one) to make all this justifiable. I am pretty sure the sting is not against the judge or DA, but I am also pretty sure that there is a sting operation going on, even if it would only justify many of the actions in this hoax (officials involved etc.).
@TS: there was a good point for you today in regards to your murder theory, being the list of objects collected that had unidentified fingerprints. Everyone on the scene present was printed, so that means there was a mystery person there. Could be your Jack the Ripper right there! Got a juicy theory about that? After David's booooooooooooooring questions today, I am very in the mood for some excitement and I don't care if it's BS, lol! Here is a virtual fireplace, please share your scary story with us. :lol::
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JKQUd-lTVkg/TUqQAZrFSpI/AAAAAAAACdA/y1h1lRfUWFk/s1600/fire02.jpg)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 06, 2011, 06:55:50 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 06, 2011, 06:57:14 PM
The docu is called How I Became An Elephant.
Post by: paula-c on October 06, 2011, 06:57:34 PM
Post by: monstertooty on October 06, 2011, 07:35:04 PM
This MAN has fooled at least 98% of the planet into thinking he died on June 25th 2009....right? Does someone have a map or appendix or glossary that I am not aware of? Impossible is not possible when it comes to THIS! I beLIEve IT is bigger and broader than any of us can IMAGINE. For God's sake... WE spent at least a year deciphering his middle name.........................
Maybe he isn't Murray..maybe he isn't hatman..maybe he isn't Dave Dave....get my point? To argue is pointless and to try to debunk a theory that 2+ years of research has uncovered is equally pointless. My question is why the stop sign? Why the red light? Look at Murray...actions speak louder than words. To believe Murray(in court) could never be Michael is to believe the Pictures TMZ and HLN and CNN have shown you of him all this time.
We as believers have learned(have been taught) to dream bigger..to read between the lines..and more importantly...start with the man in the mirror. Look at yourself and ask...what would I do..how would I act......
One song has stuck out for me. It's the one that makes me say anything is possible. Pop superstars don't write songs like this one.......
LISTEN!!!!!!! with eyes wide open. L.O.V.E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA angel................................
Post by: Andrea on October 06, 2011, 07:48:26 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 06, 2011, 07:56:05 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 08:08:33 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 06, 2011, 08:24:21 PM
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg">
It wasn't the light, it wasn't glare...after I mentioned it, when they came back from lunch, it was gone.
Nobody has even addressed these pics as to WHAT was on his face. Someone else mentioned that we see Murray "pat" his face like he's sweating in court, yes, one can sweat, but do you realize how COLD it is in the courtrooms? They blast the AC full force in there...I know..I've been a juror before and it's friggen COLD.
He scratches his neck alot and his face too...what could itch so much?
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 06, 2011, 08:33:15 PM
I was not going to elaborate on the Murray being Michael issue, however........ I'm compelled. Everyone involved in this forum is, at least, somewhat aware of how Michael has operated(Sade). That being said..... pardon my crude abuse of the punctuation system...i pause a lot............HEIGHT...seriously???? You(know who you are) really think that after all we have seen and been through together that a mans height cannot be overcome in the grand scheme of things???? Has Murray stood up in court? Do you know the heights of others around him? Do you understand that a person standing in front of another...or next to...or behind...changes perspective?
This MAN has fooled at least 98% of the planet into thinking he died on June 25th 2009....right? Does someone have a map or appendix or glossary that I am not aware of? Impossible is not possible when it comes to THIS! I beLIEve IT is bigger and broader than any of us can IMAGINE. For God's sake... WE spent at least a year deciphering his middle name.........................
Maybe he isn't Murray..maybe he isn't hatman..maybe he isn't Dave Dave....get my point? To argue is pointless and to try to debunk a theory that 2+ years of research has uncovered is equally pointless. My question is why the stop sign? Why the red light? Look at Murray...actions speak louder than words. To believe Murray(in court) could never be Michael is to believe the Pictures TMZ and HLN and CNN have shown you of him all this time.
We as believers have learned(have been taught) to dream bigger..to read between the lines..and more importantly...start with the man in the mirror. Look at yourself and ask...what would I do..how would I act......
One song has stuck out for me. It's the one that makes me say anything is possible. Pop superstars don't write songs like this one.......
LISTEN!!!!!!! with eyes wide open. L.O.V.E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA) angel................................
I totally, totally agree with you Monster....after all we have learned during the past 2+ years....are we not open to the concept that anything is possible with Michael? He is a genus...master of disguise...lover of illusion...he is capable of anything in my opinion. I swear that Conrad could be Michael...and your right we have not seen him standing and I wondered about this also. mj_bad/ /bravo/
Post by: monstertooty on October 06, 2011, 08:35:26 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 08:36:37 PM
I was not going to elaborate on the Murray being Michael issue, however........ I'm compelled. Everyone involved in this forum is, at least, somewhat aware of how Michael has operated(Sade). That being said..... pardon my crude abuse of the punctuation system...i pause a lot............HEIGHT...seriously???? You(know who you are) really think that after all we have seen and been through together that a mans height cannot be overcome in the grand scheme of things???? Has Murray stood up in court? Do you know the heights of others around him? Do you understand that a person standing in front of another...or next to...or behind...changes perspective?
This MAN has fooled at least 98% of the planet into thinking he died on June 25th 2009....right? Does someone have a map or appendix or glossary that I am not aware of? Impossible is not possible when it comes to THIS! I beLIEve IT is bigger and broader than any of us can IMAGINE. For God's sake... WE spent at least a year deciphering his middle name.........................
Maybe he isn't Murray..maybe he isn't hatman..maybe he isn't Dave Dave....get my point? To argue is pointless and to try to debunk a theory that 2+ years of research has uncovered is equally pointless. My question is why the stop sign? Why the red light? Look at Murray...actions speak louder than words. To believe Murray(in court) could never be Michael is to believe the Pictures TMZ and HLN and CNN have shown you of him all this time.
We as believers have learned(have been taught) to dream bigger..to read between the lines..and more importantly...start with the man in the mirror. Look at yourself and ask...what would I do..how would I act......
One song has stuck out for me. It's the one that makes me say anything is possible. Pop superstars don't write songs like this one.......
LISTEN!!!!!!! with eyes wide open. L.O.V.E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXn3rHAIHOA angel................................
Do we know the heights of others around him? Well did they look like midgets to you? But they do look like midgets comparing to Murray. He is a huge guy. Perspective? That was one of my lectures that I got at university. Are you sure you saw all pictures of him? Does Murray really need to stand up at the trial for you to understand how tall he is? His upper body is huge enough to let you know about his full size.
Reading btw the lines, dream bigger etc doesn't mean to fall into false halucinations and keep on praying for it to be true. We have to be realistic at the same time. Being a believer doesn't mean to lose yourself and stick to a theory that can NOT be true. As I go with my own example, you can not keep on doing the CPR on the leg of the victim and expect him to turn back to life. You can dream of it but that would be a dream that would never come true. That wouldn't get beyond a wishful thinking.
And in my humble opinion, there're so much more important things to discuss in this hoax and it is such a waste of time to discuss if Murray is MJ in disguise which is IMPOSSIBLE as I explained many times. You do not need to trust me or my professionalism and it is apparent that you don't, but keep on bringing the case is very unnecessary and absurd. I would like to see you discussing other issues than this disguise issue. Because it looks like you are very bounded to this theory and want to keep on discussing about it. I oppose to this and feel the need to give a reply because it is in my profession scope. Yes, as believers we should see the bigger picture, connect the dots and read btw the lines but we should be careful not to be overhoaxed and look into things way so much deeper where there is no need to. This would make our brains to create the things which are not real.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 08:41:39 PM
I totally, totally agree with you Monster....after all we have learned during the past 2+ years....are we not open to the concept that anything is possible with Michael? He is a genus...master of disguise...lover of illusion...he is capable of anything in my opinion. I swear that Conrad could be Michael...and your right we have not seen him standing and I wondered about this also. mj_bad/ /bravo/
Well, as far as I know Murray is going to get to the stand. So, we will be seeing him standing.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 06, 2011, 08:42:11 PM
Even if I feel like this way sometimes: /pull hair/ and /scream/ and don't forget /overreacting/
I will always feel this way for everyone here: michael-jackson/ :-*
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 08:45:52 PM
That's my point I made a WHILE back in this thread, we have never seen Murray stand up in court...I posted pics earlier in the week of "something" I spotted on Murray's face...it looked like white makeup...
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg">
It wasn't the light, it wasn't glare...after I mentioned it, when they came back from lunch, it was gone.
Nobody has even addressed these pics as to WHAT was on his face. Someone else mentioned that we see Murray "pat" his face like he's sweating in court, yes, one can sweat, but do you realize how COLD it is in the courtrooms? They blast the AC full force in there...I know..I've been a juror before and it's friggen COLD.
He scratches his neck alot and his face too...what could itch so much?
I don't know its english exactly but that looks like a smear of something on his face. Maybe something he ate or just from the make up. Never saw that white stain on his face after this one.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 06, 2011, 08:51:39 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
About the white smear on CM's face: mj_bad/
Soo you're saying Michael did the make up on Murray's face. geek/ :lol:
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 06, 2011, 09:07:29 PM
Quote
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)
Awwww, look at him! How can anyone convict him? If this were a real case and I was one of the jurors, I would have melted if he would have given me that look. I would make a bad juror, I'm weak when it comes to men with puppy eyes :lol:
I agree that it seems like he is wearing a mask. The light spot is weird, as is the fact that he scratches his face a lot (seems itchy) and he is being very careful when he touches his face. And also think it's definitely not impossible for Michael to be under that mask, but if it's live, it seems not handy and maybe even risky. I would think that he is directing this circus behind the curtain. Unless this is all pre-recorded, but that would mean that all the witnesses have to be in on it, and the media would be in a different room than the actual courtroom, which I know they do sometimes. But in a way that seems too much unnecessary work just for him to be behind that mask. But I am not ruling it out, because I keep thinking that Murray looks very very familiar sometimes, it's something in his eyes and his mouth area. Maybe he's a family member.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 09:13:42 PM
Quote(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)
Awwww, look at him! How can anyone convict him? If this were a real case and I was one of the jurors, I would have melted if he would have given me that look. I would make a bad juror, I'm weak when it comes to men with puppy eyes :lol:
I agree that it seems like he is wearing a mask. The light spot is weird, as is the fact that he scratches his face a lot (seems itchy) and he is being very careful when he touches his face. And also think it's definitely not impossible for Michael to be under that mask, but if it's live, it seems not handy and maybe even risky. I would think that he is directing this circus behind the curtain. Unless this is all pre-recorded, but that would mean that all the witnesses have to be in on it, and the media would be in a different room than the actual courtroom, which I know they do sometimes. But in a way that seems too much unnecessary work just for him to be behind that mask. But I am not ruling it out, because I keep thinking that Murray looks very very familiar sometimes, it's something in his eyes and his mouth area. Maybe he's a family member.
:lol:
He looks around like a cute puppy that breaks my heart and that's what makes him familiar. lolol/ I love Murray. He is doing a hard job in this hoax, actually the hardest one after Michael. I love him and wanna give a big bear hug to him IF I can reach to his height for sure. lolol/
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 09:16:19 PM
Have you ever been in the middle of doing something and a thought pops in your head and it has nothing to do with what is at hand or a thought you were having right before it? I don't know exactly how to explain it rather then my spirit guide telling me things . But I have them from time to time and I can't force it or ask for it to happen it just does. Example: Driving home from the fire house one day in August I was thinking about what I had to do the next time I went up there. A sudden thought that came to my head told me that my step-daughter was moving out of the house, low and behold 45 minutes later her mother called and talked to my husband saying that she was in fact moving out and living with her. With that being said....
A few minutes ago I was going thru the threads and reading post and had a thought: TS has said that there will be a trial, TS never mentioned an outcome though. TS also hasn't (unless I've missed it) said when the trial is going to end. What popped in my head was, what if Michael comes thru the doors right before/after the verdict is read? Sounds weird I know I just thought I would share.
Post by: Adi on October 06, 2011, 09:18:22 PM
As for Dr Murray's eyes they are definitely very compelling and draw you in. They are very familiar I agree Souza....there's something about those eyes.....wasn't there that article way back on TMZ regarding MJ's death - "The Eyes have it" or something?
Post by: BeTheChange on October 06, 2011, 09:18:36 PM
And to Mike:
No matter which 'mask' you're behind in running this show....thank you for showing us how to think bigger...how to think different...how to think the way you always have.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eapxHdWot0[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 09:23:19 PM
Not to get too off topic of what is being posted at this time but I had to share this and I didn't know where else to put it. BUT considering the whole court issue I figured what a better place. Also if it turns out I don't want to be one of the people that say "Oh I knew that already" without having proof. Anyway...
Have you ever been in the middle of doing something and a thought pops in your head and it has nothing to do with what is at hand or a thought you were having right before it? I don't know exactly how to explain it rather then my spirit guide telling me things . But I have them from time to time and I can't force it or ask for it to happen it just does. Example: Driving home from the fire house one day in August I was thinking about what I had to do the next time I went up there. A sudden thought that came to my head told me that my step-daughter was moving out of the house, low and behold 45 minutes later her mother called and talked to my husband saying that she was in fact moving out and living with her. With that being said....
A few minutes ago I was going thru the threads and reading post and had a thought: TS has said that there will be a trial, TS never mentioned an outcome though. TS also hasn't (unless I've missed it) said when the trial is going to end. What popped in my head was, what if Michael comes thru the doors right before/after the verdict is read? Sounds weird I know I just thought I would share.
Now that would be SOMETHING! I would love to see people's faces at the trial. The ones who do not know it would be like :shock: afraid/ :lol:
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 09:29:21 PM
Dedicated to all the 'dreamers', the 'illogical ones', the 'time-wasters'...you ALL make this world a LOT more interesting /bravo/
And to Mike:
No matter which 'mask' you're behind in running this show....thank you for showing us how to think bigger...how to think different...how to think the way you always have.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eapxHdWot0[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Blame me for knowing too much about this issue and being straight and maybe hard on you guys about it. You may think that I'm an arrogant person but if this was not my major at university, what I studied for 5 years, I would never ever write that I KNOW it. On other cases, I always write my own opinion but about this case, it is different for me.
I'm a dreamer too but I also use common sense and logic in everything. And there are times that I can be illogical. That's all human nature. But I do not think that there was need to throw the rocks at me BeTheChange. I thought that we were more mature than that. Enjoy the "theory" you guys created. I'm saying NO WORD about it no more.
P.S: I love that video and I also THINK DIFFERENT like the rest of you guys. Isn't that the reason why we are all here?
Post by: monstertooty on October 06, 2011, 09:33:09 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 09:37:35 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
Post by: Adi on October 06, 2011, 09:44:25 PM
Dedicated to all the 'dreamers', the 'illogical ones', the 'time-wasters'...you ALL make this world a LOT more interesting /bravo/
And to Mike:
No matter which 'mask' you're behind in running this show....thank you for showing us how to think bigger...how to think different...how to think the way you always have.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eapxHdWot0[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
@BeTheChange /bravo/
I have always loved that video.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 09:46:26 PM
@Mish1981 ....EXACTLY the line of feeling that is guiding me. Thanks for the post. You are not alone.
Thank you Tooty! bearhug
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 09:49:42 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
Regarding LaToya's elephant comment, we were talking about this in chat today and I'm glad that someone stayed with it! I agree that they couldn't all have been given at one time and am now on the wagon with you guys on wondering why he kept them around.
Post by: Adi on October 06, 2011, 09:52:01 PM
Anyone know?
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 09:56:30 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
Regarding LaToya's elephant comment, we were talking about this in chat today and I'm glad that someone stayed with it! I agree that they couldn't all have been given at one time and am now on the wagon with you guys on wondering why he kept them around.
lolol/
I must have missed that part of the chat. Ok, now I'm going to write something far fetched. Latoya compared elephant and Michael with that sentence of her. I'm not so sure if I'm choosing the right words but pls try to bare with me. She said "there was enough drugs to kill an elephant in Michael's blood." Michael >>> Elephant. Elephant is in the room means Michael is in the room too? afraid/ Just thinking out loud here. We can not see the BACK seats at the room, so who knows?!? He can be there with his Uncle Willy disguise. :mrgreen:
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 06, 2011, 10:01:46 PM
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
Post by: PureLove on October 06, 2011, 10:06:33 PM
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2gt10k6.jpg)
It can be really MJ in the picture but the picture is definitely photoshopped. And like Im_convincedmjalive wrote, it was clear at some point and wasn't clear at the first time we saw it. It brings the question to my mind; did they make a couple of different ones of this picture with photoshop? One more clear, one with a greenish color etc? But with what purposes?
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 10:10:51 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/propofol-1.jpg)
Why Murray keep empty bottles? smiley_spider
Good point paula-c. Why would he keep empty bottles? IMO it is so the amount of drugs found at the scene can be dramatic like how we saw the DA put it ALL out on the desk. Also it would show that the propofol was actually being used by using the empty bottles as proof. It also shows how sloppy the DR. was when administering it to his patient. Sloppy enough to leave empty bottles laying around. What I wrote is logical IF one is to believe that Murray is guilty and MJ is dead however I am being very sarcastic when I say those things. /cook/
Now this is something we need to discuss about. Worths my time to discuss. I see no reason for Murray to keep all the empty bottles IF Michael was really an addicted and if he really died. Unless all those bottles weren't used on the night and day Michael "passed". They didn't say anything like all those bottles were used the day Michael "died", right? Latoya told that there was drug enough to kill an ELEPHANT in MJ's blood. <<< OMG! When I was writing this, I remembered what LaToya told about the elephant. And elephants in the room. :lol:
Anyways my point is, not all of those drugs could be given to him in just a single day and that is not even logical. And there was no need to keep the empty bottles IF we think this is not a hoax, but which is a hoax. So like you said Im_convincedmjalive, it is all to create and to feed the drama side of the movie. ;)
Regarding LaToya's elephant comment, we were talking about this in chat today and I'm glad that someone stayed with it! I agree that they couldn't all have been given at one time and am now on the wagon with you guys on wondering why he kept them around.
lolol/
I must have missed that part of the chat. Ok, now I'm going to write something far fetched. Latoya compared elephant and Michael with that sentence of her. I'm not so sure if I'm choosing the right words but pls try to bare with me. She said "there was enough drugs to kill an elephant in Michael's blood." Michael >>> Elephant. Elephant is in the room means Michael is in the room too? afraid/ Just thinking out loud here. We can not see the BACK seats at the room, so who knows?!? He can be there with his Uncle Willy disguise. :mrgreen:
That chat gets crazy at times with 10 different conversations going. Half the time I try to reply to something someone has said and it's half way up the page. Regarding Michael being in the room, I'm not turning anything away at this point. Especially since there isn't anything saying that it isn't possible. We don't know where Michael has been since the 25th, I'm not ruling out that he's not in the court room.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 06, 2011, 10:20:34 PM
Talking about the picture, someone posted this picture on Twitter. I'm so sorry that I can not remember who it was but I found it interesting.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2gt10k6.jpg)
It can be really MJ in the picture but the picture is definitely photoshopped. And like Im_convincedmjalive wrote, it was clear at some point and wasn't clear at the first time we saw it. It brings the question to my mind; did they make a couple of different ones of this picture with photoshop? One more clear, one with a greenish color etc? But with what purposes?
I'm going out on a limb and saying that the greenish color could have been for dramatic effect. Either that or to see how the public would react to it. I don't know just thinking out loud.
I thought at first that it was a glove but now I'm thinking that it might be an IV line or something wrapped around his arm. But that doesn't explain why the hand looks so different. On the other hand if you look at the black piece right by his wrist and follow it over the wrist it looks like it goes around his arm but there is a piece that looks like it goes towards his pinkie finger. So it might in fact be a glove that's messed up. Regarding the lighting for his arm and face, again this is just my opinion and I'm thinking out loud here: We need to remember the lighting in what ever room he's in can cast a different glow (a more experienced photographer can go into detail on this), also I want to entertain the thought of the one photo where his skin looks whiter, besides if his jacket is sliding off of his arm in a concert we don't see him with a short sleeved shirt on. I am partial into thinking it's because of the vitiligo, so who's to say what his arms or legs look like. With Michael's face, we always see him with full blown makeup on and I'm sure that might also have to do with the vitiligo, so who's to say....
Just throwing some thoughts out...
Post by: BeTheChange on October 06, 2011, 10:32:56 PM
@PureLove...I was 'mature' enough to end my conversation with you a few pages back. But it seems you can't let it go....and not only that, you have once again thrown in a personal 'jab' at me (and trust me, I can take some jabs....but that was one 'jab' too many)...and now my 'maturity' level just can't ignore it. As I stated in my post...it was dedicated to ALL who 'think differently'...I didn't list names. Funny how you don't feel you were included in the group...but I have no control over that.
If you feel the way you do based on what I posted...perhaps it's because YOU have repeatedly attempted to demean, make fun of and offend members with your attitude and words....just because they have a different perspective or dare to imagine. I have no control over that either.
This is the most straight-forward and direct post anyone will ever see me write on this forum...I am all for discussion and any 'healthy' discussion always involves opposing views...I have absolutely no problem with PureLove's perspective or any opposing perspective. Actually, I welcome it because it gives my perspective balance.
However, veiled insults to members, suggestions of lacking 'common sense', and/or repeatedly insinuating superiority over an issue that, to date, NO ONE here is qualified to speak on (a feature film scriptwriter does NOT a scientist in cutting-edge technology make...that's a FACT)....is not an opposing view. It is a means to ridicule imagination...and THAT pisses me off.
Why is it SO bad that we like to discuss the possibility that Murray is Mike??? No one is claiming it's a FACT....we are engaging in the world of imagination...that's how I see it anyway. And what better place to engage in it than on a forum dedicated to the KING of imagination. IMO imagination is what is greatly lacking in the world right now....if every single one of us walked around saying "It's impossible"...then the world ends right there.
Every one of us on this forum comes from different professions, different backgrounds, and with varying life experiences. In MY profession (an educator) the word "impossible" does not exist in my vocabulary....and in MY life experiences, having witnessed miracles taking place right before my very eyes....the very word is laughable.
Sorry for the rant...I promise that once I hit send, none of you will ever see this 'side' of me ever again. I apologize in advance to TS and everyone else for having to have witnessed it at all....but the 'moment' warranted it.
@PureLove...If you feel the need to reply to this, the pm feature is advisable....I will not 'tie' up this thread with another reply to you. And once this passes...and it will, for me anyway cause life is too short...I do hope that we can somehow find a middle ground....and despite our 'differences' there is a LOT of common ground. Being on this very forum connects us ALL on some level.
Off to youtube to watch Mike perform his magic...at this very moment, he's about the only one that can improve my 'state of mind'. And he will....he always does.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 06, 2011, 10:50:50 PM
Can't we all just get along? What are we all here for? FOR JUSTICE, THE TRUTH, FOR MICHAEL michael-jackson/
He wouldn't want us arguing over something we are so passionate about. Everyone has their opinions on this trial and each day that passes, some of us doubt more or believe more...
I haven't known any of you that long and I enjoy coming here and expressing my thoughts and opinions, I can't do this anywhere else because people think I'm nuts! lolol/
Try having this conversation with my husband...he thought I was crazy 6 years ago when we got married because I was so passionate about 9/11 and the thought of the government involvement, he thinks I'm bonkers now :)
Love you all bearhug
Post by: bindupbrokenhearted on October 06, 2011, 10:52:56 PM
That's my point I made a WHILE back in this thread, we have never seen Murray stand up in court...I posted pics earlier in the week of "something" I spotted on Murray's face...it looked like white makeup...
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0763.jpg)">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)">
It wasn't the light, it wasn't glare...after I mentioned it, when they came back from lunch, it was gone.
Nobody has even addressed these pics as to WHAT was on his face. Someone else mentioned that we see Murray "pat" his face like he's sweating in court, yes, one can sweat, but do you realize how COLD it is in the courtrooms? They blast the AC full force in there...I know..I've been a juror before and it's friggen COLD.
He scratches his neck alot and his face too...what could itch so much?
:shock:
Good catch! /bravo/
I wonder who is behind the mask/makeup :lol:
IMO could be Mike but could be anyone. Does anyone here see CM and get reminded of the OJ Simpson trial? Not that I think OJ is CM; just reminds me of that trial is all.
God bless.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 06, 2011, 10:59:01 PM
We have only heard CM's voice a few times...so I wanna hear him testify...but my gut tells me they won't put him on the stand.
If MJ is CM, then he fooled us all....MJ could be Judge Pastor for all we know, or CM's "old, dead guy lawyer" lolol/
I'm waiting for my sunglasses, MICHAEL. I asked for them to be in court today, they weren't there :(
Instead you moved my chimp I found ( /bravo/ ) and kept the elephants :(
I WANT MY SUNGLASSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /pull hair/
Post by: bec on October 07, 2011, 12:52:43 AM
I am an educator as well BeTheChange, so I feel as you do.
People have been saying things are impossible all the way up to this point... and yet they are still happening. Michael faked his death including filing fake documents with the gov't, his parents filed lawsuits, he feeds media companies through unidentified stories hoax clues, he has an entire media company cooperating to publish clues. Now he is doing a simulated criminal trial in a real courthouse with a real judge and real prosecutors and it's being televised all over the world by media companies who are completely unaware... I have a hard time believing anything is impossible at this point.
It's fun as hell to imagine different outcomes to this hoax, and kick around different ideas, and considering who we are dealing with, I believe nothing is impossible.
Ps. I had this post printed up and loading an hour ago when the forum took a big poop and it got stuck with permanent rolly ball /overreacting/
Pps. fatalkiss, everyone I've told think I'm nuts too. It's frustrating as hell, isn't it? I'm a perfectly normal, successful, well adjusted, adult person and yet on this one I'm a complete lunatic :evil: I think MJ made it this way on purpose to some extent, to be the ultimate test of your own self confidence to stand up and say you believe in something that 99.9% of the world thinks is a desperate fantasy.
Post by: curls on October 07, 2011, 01:44:20 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 07, 2011, 05:20:00 AM
Well could be a dummy.....dummies don't have aura.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 07, 2011, 08:05:18 AM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 07, 2011, 08:14:30 AM
And in my humble opinion, there're so much more important things to discuss in this hoax and it is such a waste of time to discuss if Murray is MJ in disguise .[/b]
@purelove very good point abt more important things than disguise... it's all for L.O.V.E.... :)
i personally dont think that CM is MJ. but havent given it thought before as i am consumed in other things atm, such as adding numbers and digesting court case info...
for those who think CM is MJ, can i ask, what abt the pics the press have of murray at beach in the water- do you think he is in a body suit / make up, there too? just curious.
Post by: paula-c on October 07, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
Talking about the picture, someone posted this picture on Twitter. I'm so sorry that I can not remember who it was but I found it interesting.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2gt10k6.jpg)
It can be really MJ in the picture but the picture is definitely photoshopped. And like Im_convincedmjalive wrote, it was clear at some point and wasn't clear at the first time we saw it. It brings the question to my mind; did they make a couple of different ones of this picture with photoshop? One more clear, one with a greenish color etc? But with what purposes?
And the glove?, why? suspicious//
Post by: Shining light on October 07, 2011, 08:29:36 AM
I guess I was wrong and that dead Michael photo is not a picture but a photo after all. Well this is not good at all because someone said it has no aura...I have posted that LOU FERIGNO stated that MJ was a practical joker and like to place Mannequin's on ambulances. I never got one single reply,when i posted that,in a TIAI thread. Its all good to see people coming around to the idea that maybe it was a lifeless doll. It would not be the first time he has done something like this but maybe everything worked perfect this time for him. Look how far this has gone,could we be near the end? No one knows but Mike and his family,Janet said family first the fans second. “When the groove is dead and gone… You know that love survives… So we can
Well could be a dummy.....dummies don't have aura.
rock forever” I will be watching that tribute named forever for sure.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 07, 2011, 08:53:50 AM
I think there's no problem for Michael to do himself a photo on a hospital gurney (an old one, I must add). He has a lot of fiends-doctors to help him do that. Remember Michael in a oxygen chamber? :P
However this body looks strange... that hand... suspicious//
It's creepy. People in general wouldn't dare to play with death like this. It's dangerous enough to fake an illness, God might actually give you one if you insist faking it, God forbid errrr ...
Well I hope MJ has full support from above...he must have it.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 07, 2011, 08:58:15 AM
But he's just a kid, while Michael was 50....I guess it's not much difference after all albino/.
Post by: Grace on October 07, 2011, 09:55:21 AM
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:
Quote
This is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 07, 2011, 10:17:30 AM
Anyone who wants can read here:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2005/june/obrien_062005
I do not know if this applies fully to the case of Michael. Of course he was the victim of corruption, but there must be another FBI program that offers greater support. What I saw on the page are these options:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/victim_assistance
Michael was not a victim of terrorism and not of an aviation disaster.
I also think that is not within the witness protection program
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Witness_Protection_Program
Anyway, I found nothing related to the FBI that gives coverage to a story like Michael, even with the right to trial fake.
Clarifications, please? /pull hair/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 10:22:10 AM
Oh, I remember September 5th, 2009 so well.... That was the day I posted on the old MJHD that Michael was disguised as Dave Dave on Larry King. Those of you long enough on board know exactly what happened then; I was bashed, hated, ridiculed and in no way it was possible that Michael was Dave Dave. Now, more than 2 years later, it's accepted as being self-evident. Chappie's quick photoshop art is world famous now. Patience is the key people. Ridicule and haters we can handle.
Oh cmon are you kidding me? Even my 16 yr old thought it was Michael.
When I saw "Dave Dave" on Larry King that night, I'm saying to my 16 year old, " he doesn't look right"...she said "Mom, wouldn't it be hilarious if that was Michael and he's still alive?"
And thats what started it...so thank you Dave for putting that idea in my daughter's head and starting the craziness :)
" Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system"
he had a lot of pill bottles in his room, BUT the meds were NOT found in his body...my theory is they were planted.
Post by: chappie on October 07, 2011, 10:25:02 AM
I still regret the day worling on that horrible pic of Mike that Mo Or Souza gave to me to do a quicky.
Sorry Mike but maybe next time better. /pull hair/
Can the real Mike and the real Dave please stand up?
Post by: curls on October 07, 2011, 10:41:31 AM
Did you notice the toxi guy said they tested for those 'non detected' drugs because the MEDIA suggested they would be present?
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 11:00:25 AM
Completely off-topic:
@PureLove...I was 'mature' enough to end my conversation with you a few pages back. But it seems you can't let it go....and not only that, you have once again thrown in a personal 'jab' at me (and trust me, I can take some jabs....but that was one 'jab' too many)...and now my 'maturity' level just can't ignore it. As I stated in my post...it was dedicated to ALL who 'think differently'...I didn't list names. Funny how you don't feel you were included in the group...but I have no control over that.
If you feel the way you do based on what I posted...perhaps it's because YOU have repeatedly attempted to demean, make fun of and offend members with your attitude and words....just because they have a different perspective or dare to imagine. I have no control over that either.
This is the most straight-forward and direct post anyone will ever see me write on this forum...I am all for discussion and any 'healthy' discussion always involves opposing views...I have absolutely no problem with PureLove's perspective or any opposing perspective. Actually, I welcome it because it gives my perspective balance.
However, veiled insults to members, suggestions of lacking 'common sense', and/or repeatedly insinuating superiority over an issue that, to date, NO ONE here is qualified to speak on (a feature film scriptwriter does NOT a scientist in cutting-edge technology make...that's a FACT)....is not an opposing view. It is a means to ridicule imagination...and THAT pisses me off.
Why is it SO bad that we like to discuss the possibility that Murray is Mike??? No one is claiming it's a FACT....we are engaging in the world of imagination...that's how I see it anyway. And what better place to engage in it than on a forum dedicated to the KING of imagination. IMO imagination is what is greatly lacking in the world right now....if every single one of us walked around saying "It's impossible"...then the world ends right there.
Every one of us on this forum comes from different professions, different backgrounds, and with varying life experiences. In MY profession (an educator) the word "impossible" does not exist in my vocabulary....and in MY life experiences, having witnessed miracles taking place right before my very eyes....the very word is laughable.
Sorry for the rant...I promise that once I hit send, none of you will ever see this 'side' of me ever again. I apologize in advance to TS and everyone else for having to have witnessed it at all....but the 'moment' warranted it.
@PureLove...If you feel the need to reply to this, the pm feature is advisable....I will not 'tie' up this thread with another reply to you. And once this passes...and it will, for me anyway cause life is too short...I do hope that we can somehow find a middle ground....and despite our 'differences' there is a LOT of common ground. Being on this very forum connects us ALL on some level.
Off to youtube to watch Mike perform his magic...at this very moment, he's about the only one that can improve my 'state of mind'. And he will....he always does.
With L.O.V.E. always.
So you're saying the post where you wrote about illogical ones, time wasters just after the post I made about wasting our time with the disguise issue and I use logic is a coincidence?!? I wish you were honest enough to admit that you made it to throw the stones at me BeTheChange. We all know why you made it, so there is no need to twist it and try to save yourself by saying "I made it for all". I'm not buying it, sorry. You are trying to look nice but posts made by you without mentioning names but to stir the shit doesn't make you nice. Keep on twisting my words like I said imagination is a bad thing or dreaming is not good, I know who I am and your allusions mean nothing to me, and do not change the person who I am.
I'm an honest person and I prefer to write directly to that person's face instead of mentioning her or throw the rocks on her with a so called beautiful message. That's the reason why I'm answering you here and not on a PM and this is it. I told and shared the TECHNOLOGY side of the disguise issue and you guys jumped on me and blamed me for not being a dreamer, not thinking anything can be possible etc. So just in case you missed it, you'd better turn back and re-read the posts you made to me or mentioned me, and other members who think the same with you. I am the one who was ridiculed and offended here. You all humiliated and underestimated me and my profession.
You say that a scpritwriter doesn't know this diguise issue which is a very wrong and poor statement once again. You wrote that you read my posts carefully but it looks like you keep on missing what I wrote. Scriptwriters go to film studios too, they do not sit back and write the scripts only. We see all processes of a film making. If someone in the film business doesn't know this disguise issue, then ANY of you know it. Especially not better than I do. I was trying to show the thin line btw the fantasy world and the reality. There was no need to argue on this issue for this long which is not important at all for the sake of the hoax. Sooner or later we will be understanding if Murray is MJ in disguise or if he is a real person. And if it comes out that he is MJ in disguise, I will be apologizing one by one from everyone who thought that it was MJ. This is a promise from me. I can't wait for the day to come. Now, let's keep on doing our investigation because there's so much more to come.
Post by: 6Bpeople on October 07, 2011, 11:04:11 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/IMAG0765.jpg)
Post by: bec on October 07, 2011, 11:12:56 AM
Badkolo said a long time ago that the FBI Sting Operation that TS talks about is eerily reminiscent of the story line in Moonwalker, what with a bunch of bad guys (mafia-types) out to get MJ and him helping the FBI in a sting operation)...
here's an evidence pic from Fleak's testimony yesterday:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)
Look at the DVD cover. The graphic was familiar to me so I tried to identify it. It's similar, very, to the TII cover but it's not quite the same. Turns out it's the Moonwalker image... but again, not quite the same. The Moonwalker graphic PRE-6/25/09 was a little bit bent over... but... POST-6/25/09 a commemorative copy of Moonwalker was released, "in memory of MJ", and the BACK cover art was/is identical to the graphic you see on this DVD in the evidence pic. Look and compare for yourself:
(http://www.dvd-covers.org/d/62896-2/Twentieth_Century_Fox_Template.jpg)
Again, the graphic was changed post-6/25/09. Here's the Moonwalker graphic pre-6/25/09:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_P39BgEGRnN8/S_EYGcs-aLI/AAAAAAAAAQI/3kvMjpKQn74/s1600/Michael_Jackson_Moonwalker-%5Bcdcovers_cc%5D-front.jpg)
or other similar styles.... but none of the styles include a nearly upright MJ pose graphic. All are slightly bent, identical to this one ^^. ONLY post-6/25/09, on the BACK of the commemorative copy is the upright graphic as seen on the FRONT of the DVD cover as seen in the evidence pic found.
Here is the Google image search address, see for yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719 (http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719)
(Or just Google Image search "michael jackson moonwalker dvd cover" no parentheses needed.)
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
Post by: bec on October 07, 2011, 11:15:58 AM
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 11:16:41 AM
I guess I was wrong and that dead Michael photo is not a picture but a photo after all. Well this is not good at all because someone said it has no aura...
Well could be a dummy.....dummies don't have aura.
I don't get that aura issue but I don't also get why it is bad that it is a picture. It is so obvious that it is photoshopped. So? How are people expecting to see an aura in a photoshopped picture? We see different versions of it which means they played on the pic a lot. So, smile Gina. Nothing is bad with the picture. Ohh yes, actually it is bad but because of the photoshop they did and that is all. ;)
And in my humble opinion, there're so much more important things to discuss in this hoax and it is such a waste of time to discuss if Murray is MJ in disguise .[/b]
@purelove very good point abt more important things than disguise... it's all for L.O.V.E.... :)
i personally dont think that CM is MJ. but havent given it thought before as i am consumed in other things atm, such as adding numbers and digesting court case info...
for those who think CM is MJ, can i ask, what abt the pics the press have of murray at beach in the water- do you think he is in a body suit / make up, there too? just curious.
Thank you Australian. :) That's a good point where you stated how we saw Murray with his swim suit and in the water. Well, that must a super flexible and 2020 technology mask that covers all his face and body where he can use it even in water! lolol/ We heard the man speaking many times and that is another proof. How can Michael make his voice like that? We heard him changing his voice but Murray's is on a very different level, different tone. Anyways, nothing would make people believe it whatever you say. I tried to explain the technical side of it but still ... You see how I was blaimed not to be a dreamer, not to think different and so on. Apparently, I should have kept it all to myself. Blessings to you.
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 11:19:56 AM
Ps. Let it go PureLove.
;)
Did my post gave you the impression that I will keep on discussing the issue? I thought that it was clear enough bec. So no worries. bearhug
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 11:29:07 AM
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:QuoteThis is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Thank you for the list Grace. So there was only 4.1 ml propofol in his blood and 13 mg in his stomach. And what about the urine? 3 cups of urine from a man who was dehydrated is too much. Where did all the pee come from?
P.S: I was searching about how much proforol they give to a person before the surgery. And it depends on the duration of the surgery but I found out that 500mg of propofol is given for a simple colonoscopy. 200 mg to have a simple operation fone with regional anes. So was there enough propofol in MJ's blood to kill him?
Post by: Andrea on October 07, 2011, 11:36:42 AM
...
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
I do believe that we have a hoax court with a sting(s). But if there is no sting as has been strongly hinted, the idea of a sting is still important. We haven't all come to a strong conclusion of who the sting target(s) are although several excellent suggestions have been made for a long time now. I think everyone on this forum has become more aware of the world around us and have gained great knowledge. We've expanded our horizons and have been thinking outside the box. So many of the re-directs and the FBI numerology would strongly suggest a broader scope of the hoax, seeing the big picture. Combining all of this with some sort of sting make sense. If there is no sting and many of the hoaxers have been hoaxed as well (we are not immune to it), the sting theory has proven it's own value.
Love the Moonwalker connection. 8)
Post by: Sarahli on October 07, 2011, 11:43:53 AM
The day the circus came to town near Staples Center during the Memorial............... bounce/
(http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Circus+Elephants+Arrive+Staples+Center+Hours+WZTGpdgV-a0l.jpg)
Great observations everyone! /bravo/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 11:48:52 AM
Crosspost from the odd things thread because I think it's relevant here.
Badkolo said a long time ago that the FBI Sting Operation that TS talks about is eerily reminiscent of the story line in Moonwalker, what with a bunch of bad guys (mafia-types) out to get MJ and him helping the FBI in a sting operation)...
here's an evidence pic from Fleak's testimony yesterday:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)
Look at the DVD cover. The graphic was familiar to me so I tried to identify it. It's similar, very, to the TII cover but it's not quite the same. Turns out it's the Moonwalker image... but again, not quite the same. The Moonwalker graphic PRE-6/25/09 was a little bit bent over... but... POST-6/25/09 a commemorative copy of Moonwalker was released, "in memory of MJ", and the BACK cover art was/is identical to the graphic you see on this DVD in the evidence pic. Look and compare for yourself:
(http://www.dvd-covers.org/d/62896-2/Twentieth_Century_Fox_Template.jpg)
Again, the graphic was changed post-6/25/09. Here's the Moonwalker graphic pre-6/25/09:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_P39BgEGRnN8/S_EYGcs-aLI/AAAAAAAAAQI/3kvMjpKQn74/s1600/Michael_Jackson_Moonwalker-%5Bcdcovers_cc%5D-front.jpg)
or other similar styles.... but none of the styles include a nearly upright MJ pose graphic. All are slightly bent, identical to this one ^^. ONLY post-6/25/09, on the BACK of the commemorative copy is the upright graphic as seen on the FRONT of the DVD cover as seen in the evidence pic found.
Here is the Google image search address, see for yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719 (http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719)
(Or just Google Image search "michael jackson moonwalker dvd cover" no parentheses needed.)
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
So are you saying the dvd cover is POST 9/25? WTF??
At first glance, it looked like TII, but even so, it's in HIS bedroom prior to his death...TII concert dvd was an afterthought...just wow...
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 11:55:57 AM
-I had this surgery done for my left hand and yes the med. worked so great that I woke up thinking "that was fun - let's do it again." I have a major depression/anxiety disorder that I already take so much medication for and also in the recovery room I asked everyone that came walking by that I wanted this medicine in pill form instead of benzodiazepams which I have taken for 30 years. Well it has been almost 2 weeks since that surgery and after that "happy medicine" I have had more depression than I have had for years. I think I would prefer to be drugged by the benzodiazepams even if I have to take three times as much as a normal person would take and be wide awake (and calmed down) than to wake up with the "happy juice" and have depression episodes afterwards. I guess I should really rate this medicine high but I won't because of the euphoria afterwards and then the weeks of unwanted depression episodes. I have had 3 surgeries before this and of course never did get euphoric or depressed! (And kind of grouchy too even though I have no pain from the surgery). This is the first time with this propofol that I have ever had.
So, Propofol might be causing depression. Can you imagine Michael having it every day???
-woke up with a bad cough and a sore throat....they gave me a breathing treatment....I lost my voice for about 2 weeks and I still have a raspy voice 2 months later....I also had an irregular heart beat for a couple of days...Won't take it again....
Sore throat, bad cough, raspy voice for 2 months and irregular heart beat. Well MJ looks so healthy in TII and he sang perfectly as usual. There was no problem with his voice.
-I had a colonoscopy yesterday at a surgicenter. I have had all previous colonoscopies done at hospitals. This is the first time with Propofol. There was slight burning in my arm, then I was asleep. Less than an hour after the procedure, on the way home, the glands under both jaws hurt and swelled slightly. It is now almost 24 hours and they still hurt and now itch. I like Versed better.
-Euphoria then complete sedation. First times used I had no side effects other than groggy for about 30-45 mins. Last procedure, I developled allergy like symptoms, severe including watery, itchy eyes; itchy irriated nasal passages, particularly on left side - the side on which I was laying; lots of sneezing and drainage.
-couldn't breathe, admitted to ICU
-A couple of hours after this outpatient procedure, I started with some pain in my throat. I thought I may have caught something like a cold. By the next morning, I had both sides of my neck (lymph nodes) swollen, and was experiencing a lot of pain, even to the touch. I could not swallow very well, and had also a rash on the sides of my face. The pain did not go away for several days, and even a week after the procedure I still had some pain on my right side node under the jaw.
-In post op, I had a difficult time waking up.It took much longer for me to become coherent than it should have. WELL, SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT. It is 7 days post op and I continue to feel "out of it," confused, have headaches, difficulty concentrating at work & home, discolored urine and more. I talked with the anesthesiologist before surgery and reminded her that I take very little medication, rarely drink, don't smoke and that I require less medication to achieve the proper level of anesthesia for surgery. I will never give permission for this medication to be used on me again.
-Memory loss and anxiety. Lost sense of direction while driving, cannot multiply in higher numbers, am having to re-learn computer functions vs keys for my job, and worst of all while I'm talking about something... i don't just forget the next word... but i cannot substitute another word because I Do NOT remember WHAT i was saying... Nothing seems to help. But I need more info if this has happened to others and what helped them.
You can read more of them on this page http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=19627&name=DIPRIVAN%20PROPOFOL
I didn't even know that Propofol has all these side effects. SOOOOO There is NO WAY for Michael to be an addict and using it every day to sleep. He was way so much healthy in TII and PLUS I would never ever believe that he would be a drug addict and do this to himself and to his beautiful kids. I NEVER believed in that but still to learn more about Propofol makes me 1500% sure that he is all OK.
Post by: Sarahli on October 07, 2011, 12:07:59 PM
Quote
DEtAiLS
if you blink, you might miss IT……………
Look at the small letters: ti IT....... TII.... This Is It?????????
Post by: BeTheChange on October 07, 2011, 12:10:22 PM
for those who think CM is MJ, can i ask, what abt the pics the press have of murray at beach in the water- do you think he is in a body suit / make up, there too? just curious.
@Australian MJ BeLIEver...that's a very good question you've asked and it's also one that has been brought up before. Here are some of the instances where I, myself, wondered about that...these are my quotes from my posts, although many others who are contemplating this 'theory' have also raised these points in trying to 'debunk' their own theory (something that TS has repeatedly shown us to do...i.e. state your theory, show your supporting 'evidence', then try to 'debunk' your own theory):
Quote
About the whole 'could Murray be Michael' thing...yes, it does seem like that would be difficult to pull off.
Quote
As for the physical theory...the 'holes' I can't seem to reconcile are Murray's height, his arms (in pics where he's wearing a T-shirt), and now thanks to the pedicure...his bare legs (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_lol.gif)
Quote
I specifically mentioned why I DON'T think Murray could be Mike...which included his height, his arms and his legs.
Quote
We've seen his height both in pics and in video. I don't know much about photography or special effects...but I'm sure his height (and perhaps even arms and legs) could be 'altered' in pics if someone wanted to. But live video? Wouldn't that be harder to do?
Given how many pics we've seen throughout this entire hoax, which many of us agree have been altered, photoshopped, or completely staged....any pics of Murray, IMO, could just as easily fall under the same scrutiny. As stated in my above quote, it would be more difficult to achieve this 'illusion' with a live video.
Quote
Murray could very well NOT be Mike...logically, that does make more sense. But that 'sense' comes from the limited knowledge we have in what is possible in technology. Mike was all about innovation and finding ways to achieve the impossible...and if anyone did find a way to APPEAR dead but remain right in FRONT of our faces for 2+ years...it would be Mike.
I, along with other members, have even gone beyond the 'basic' Murray is Mike theory...and thought of other possible scenarios that could be taking place or that could potentially take place at some future time.
Quote
And, as bec said, he may just end up being Murray for a day at some pivitol point in the trial. Or as someone else suggested (sorry can't remember who...maybe Sarahli?)...there could be two Murray's...one that goes out in public and the one we see in court (hmmm...a body double....why does that sound familiar? (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_e_wink.gif) )
To sum up...none of us can answer the question you asked with 100% certainty (as far as Murray in pics...we've learned too much in the past 2 years to take anything at 'face value')...but the only way to understand anything is to ask questions and think about the possibilities. But that, of course, needs to be premised by a sincere desire to understand, a curiousity level grounded in imagination, and an open-mind willing to take in different perspectives.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 12:21:23 PM
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
Post by: BeTheChange on October 07, 2011, 12:31:51 PM
Crosspost from the odd things thread because I think it's relevant here.
Badkolo said a long time ago that the FBI Sting Operation that TS talks about is eerily reminiscent of the story line in Moonwalker, what with a bunch of bad guys (mafia-types) out to get MJ and him helping the FBI in a sting operation)...
here's an evidence pic from Fleak's testimony yesterday:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)
Look at the DVD cover. The graphic was familiar to me so I tried to identify it. It's similar, very, to the TII cover but it's not quite the same. Turns out it's the Moonwalker image... but again, not quite the same. The Moonwalker graphic PRE-6/25/09 was a little bit bent over... but... POST-6/25/09 a commemorative copy of Moonwalker was released, "in memory of MJ", and the BACK cover art was/is identical to the graphic you see on this DVD in the evidence pic. Look and compare for yourself:
(http://www.dvd-covers.org/d/62896-2/Twentieth_Century_Fox_Template.jpg)
Again, the graphic was changed post-6/25/09. Here's the Moonwalker graphic pre-6/25/09:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_P39BgEGRnN8/S_EYGcs-aLI/AAAAAAAAAQI/3kvMjpKQn74/s1600/Michael_Jackson_Moonwalker-%5Bcdcovers_cc%5D-front.jpg)
or other similar styles.... but none of the styles include a nearly upright MJ pose graphic. All are slightly bent, identical to this one ^^. ONLY post-6/25/09, on the BACK of the commemorative copy is the upright graphic as seen on the FRONT of the DVD cover as seen in the evidence pic found.
Here is the Google image search address, see for yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719 (http://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jackson+this+is+it+dvd+cover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6MD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=3RqPTsKYOOOtsQKJ2-GTAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1155&bih=719#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&pbx=1&oq=michael+jackson+moonwalker+dvd+cover&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=87087l88703l0l89419l10l10l0l0l0l2l193l1477l2.8l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6e7172cd5b8b9026&biw=1155&bih=719)
(Or just Google Image search "michael jackson moonwalker dvd cover" no parentheses needed.)
I think this FBI story line is exactly that, a story. This is our brand of the hoax. Everyone is being hoaxed, including the hoaxers.
@bec...that nightstand pic threw me for a loop too when I saw it flash across the tv screen lol. I noticed two things right away...the first was the obvious placement of what looks to be a DVD cover. I say 'looks to be' because I recognized the cover to be this one from the Ultimate Collection:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5d/MichaelJacksonUltimateCollection.jpg/220px-MichaelJacksonUltimateCollection.jpg)
To the best of my knowledge, though (and I may be wrong)...the Ultimate Collection comes in a CD pack, not a DVD size pack. It could also be the angle of the pic...but it does look like the one on the nightstand is a DVD and not a CD. If anyone can clarify the CD vs. DVD question about the Ultimate Collection, please do.
Based on how much TS focused on the FBI and possible 'stings'...what you've laid out makes a lot of sense (especially when we take into account the similarities in what we're seeing in court and the Moonwalker storyline, as suggested by Badkolo. It's definitely something worth thinking about.
The second thing I noticed right away was the pic right above and to the right of the DVD/CD cover. Can anyone tell if it is a pic of a pair of shoes?? :lol: Just curious...
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 12:37:08 PM
but here ya go...here is the dvd
<img src="http://www.audvdshopping.com/images/products/classic-dvd-collection/M.jackson-1.jpg">
damn it...trhought we had something /scream/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 12:38:14 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 12:42:57 PM
http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/08/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-paris-prince-blanket-video/#.To84LGqIlZ0
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/06/dr-conrad-murray-katherine-jackson-michael-jackson-manslaughter-prelim-nordstroms/#.To85NmqIlZ0
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrCtqyHjENY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3wI20hUfs4[/youtube]
Post by: BeTheChange on October 07, 2011, 12:50:49 PM
It seems Mike's not gonna give us any breaks :twisted: . Couldn't it have been a copy of the TII DVD? :lol: :lol:
And you do raise a good point about the book covering it in one pic and not in the other. The only thing that makes sense is that someone 'cleaned' or 'cleared' the nightstand before taking the second pic. And one very possible reason for that could be to focus our attention to the DVD....or why leave it there but take away the book covering it?
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. Fatalkiss this is for the hug you sent me yesterday bearhug
Post by: Mish1981 on October 07, 2011, 02:40:28 PM
the set of pictures they just showed to Fleak , the DVD is UNDER a book...so who moved the book to expose the dvd?
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
Good catch
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 03:12:35 PM
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 07, 2011, 03:18:38 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 07, 2011, 03:19:16 PM
the set of pictures they just showed to Fleak , the DVD is UNDER a book...so who moved the book to expose the dvd?
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
Yes, I was saying that in the chat when they showed it. I can't make screenshots though! thank god someone posted it though.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 07, 2011, 03:26:50 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 07, 2011, 03:34:14 PM
WTF?? I'm wondering to why things were moved. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it's normal for things to be moved as long as it is photographed before hand? I don't know? /pull hair/
But it looks like they added stuff to the dresser....
And I've said this a million times, that looks like a pic of Elvis from '77.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)
(http://carolynspreciousmemories.com/elvis/happybirthdayelvis_files/happybirthday_elvis_tag.jpg)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 07, 2011, 04:23:48 PM
Post by: bluegurl201 on October 07, 2011, 04:30:04 PM
Post by: Dontwalkaway on October 07, 2011, 04:43:52 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 05:16:50 PM
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Post by: bec on October 07, 2011, 05:31:09 PM
Well, I still stand by the Moonwalker theory to explain the FBI Sting TS talks about.
Could MJ have a Key person at the FBI who arranged the number of pages and the release of the files date and that is the extent of the FBI involvement? Possibly.
Post by: MissG on October 07, 2011, 05:39:55 PM
Also, the room has just posters or images of kids and babies, but i have not seen a personal touch in decoration. In the Bashir tapes we could see that Michael, even when being at the hotel, had his mannequins with him to feel "with company-at home"
Was Michael living there on the 1st place?
The room and wc looked pretty messy...either Michael is a destroyer and his service does not clean after him or that home was robbed or raided and pics where taken after the incident.
Regarding the pics...i find odd to see a huge mess everywhere and just aligned and in perfect order and display 3 empty bottles of pills, like if someone put them there just for the sake of it to take the picture. Rings any 2004-5 bells anyone?
Post by: PureLove on October 07, 2011, 05:43:36 PM
the set of pictures they just showed to Fleak , the DVD is UNDER a book...so who moved the book to expose the dvd?
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/31d5e4fc09e2e820c33ff3006d0d7c7ef08a32a0bbe5f93c45cf48d65c3045bc6g.jpg)">
<img src="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/84cd52647b965a7761f290cf5a59620db37f726a6582e0202e023c80a5796d6c6g.jpg)">
same dresser right? who moved the stuff,?
It looks like they moved many things. But this one looks like they moved the book to show us the dvd. What Bec wrote about the Moonwalker theory is interesting and sounds plausible to me.
Post by: curls on October 07, 2011, 05:44:13 PM
Then I listened to 'Whatever Happens', and I'm ok now! Guess we've just had one of the 'sad bits' in this production.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 07, 2011, 05:49:06 PM
Post by: bec on October 07, 2011, 05:49:47 PM
Perhaps someone should email Chernoff...
Post by: Sarahli on October 07, 2011, 06:00:10 PM
Just want to say something about Murray's 'interview' played in court just now. I was rivetted and it got to me a bit I have to say, and I didn't feel the lightheartedness that I saw when I looked in on chat. For a while he had me wondering again, then the inconsistencies started and differences between his version of events and that of other witnesses made me feel better.
Then I listened to 'Whatever Happens', and I'm ok now! Guess we've just had one of the 'sad bits' in this production.
Have you noticed the interviewer's mention of "the circus"? I don't recall exactly what he was saying but I find this specific reference not very coincidental. suspicious// About inconsistencies, Murray called the chef "Rose"... shouldn't it be Kai Chase? And he was able to pinpoint the exact times when asked WHEN he was giving the drugs to Michael, so I am wondering where did his watch go when at UCLA...because let's remember that he couldn't tell when Michael stopped breathing to the doctor because he had no watch. :lol:
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 07, 2011, 06:03:34 PM
I too have thought this myself. Wont go into detail too much as I know it appears in other threads about the message murray sends out to fans on YT is quite reminissant of MJ and previous speeches Mj has given re his own trial. With MJ anything is possible. And if he did turn up as CM for a day you would understand why, it would be a lesson in how easily one can be fooled and therefore a) should not believe everything they see hear and read, and b) to always question everything :)
this DH has so many twists and turns, only time will reveal all the answers i guess.
i dont believe the murray we see often in court is mj. having said that i can totally imagine mj dressing up and being done up in CM make up for a day for the sheer personal thrill of it... sounds like an mj stunt .
who knows...time... only time :)
L.O.V.E to all
bearhug
@bethechagne - so totally get what you are saying re:
I, along with other members, have even gone beyond the 'basic' Murray is Mike theory...and thought of other possible scenarios that could be taking place or that could potentially take place at some future time.
QuoteAnd, as bec said, he may just end up being Murray for a day at some pivitol point in the trial. Or as someone else suggested (sorry can't remember who...maybe Sarahli?)...there could be two Murray's...one that goes out in public and the one we see in court (hmmm...a body double....why does that sound familiar? (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_e_wink.gif) )
Post by: MissG on October 07, 2011, 06:04:23 PM
just wondering if those pics of children and babies are pics Michael took of them when visiting them.
The Moonwalker theme...makes sense with the hoax glasses on:
Michael will face the forces of evil: Dr. Big and his powerful army. The intent of this evil character is taking over the world corrupting the youth with drugs. Michael only has three friends. These children will witness the incredible Transforms of the superstar--->3 kids, his children.
Will Michael come back as in the movie? :)
Post by: bec on October 07, 2011, 06:05:55 PM
Post by: MissG on October 07, 2011, 06:14:02 PM
Today´s court dynamics made me a bit confused. Where are we leading? why did "Rebbie?" leave the room when Murray´s tape was on?, how come the tape was so noisy? happened in a café or what?
Post by: Andrea on October 07, 2011, 06:26:25 PM
Ps. If Murray is ever Michael in disguise it would almost certainly be Dave Dave style.
That's what I think too. IF Michael is/was ever Murray, it wouldn't be a constant disguise. Maybe once or twice or just enough to have us question it. There has been talk for a long time that there seem to be two Murray's. Whether that is true or not, it could explain the weight discrepancies, the accent or lack thereof, the seemingly different skin tones...
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 07, 2011, 07:14:41 PM
all hyperthetical speculation.
Post by: FITA on October 07, 2011, 07:32:47 PM
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:QuoteThis is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Grace, thank you so much for posting this.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 07, 2011, 09:19:28 PM
Each time a pic is shown i try to "find out" some image or reflection from the mirror (bedroom)...but can´t see a thing.I completely agree with everything you've said in your post. With what I have highlighted: /bravo/ so true! Completely slipped my mind. Good catch!!!! From the photos we've seen of the house (the front door that is) it doesn't look like there are any personal affects there. [/b][/color]
Also, the room has just posters or images of kids and babies, but i have not seen a personal touch in decoration. In the Bashir tapes we could see that Michael, even when being at the hotel, had his mannequins with him to feel "with company-at home"Was Michael living there on the 1st place?
The room and wc looked pretty messy...either Michael is a destroyer and his service does not clean after him or that home was robbed or raided and pics where taken after the incident.
Regarding the pics...i find odd to see a huge mess everywhere and just aligned and in perfect order and display 3 empty bottles of pills, like if someone put them there just for the sake of it to take the picture. Rings any 2004-5 bells anyone?
Post by: paula-c on October 07, 2011, 09:25:27 PM
Post by: Adi on October 07, 2011, 11:10:08 PM
in addition to my previous comment, just want to add that whilst i agree that it is possible that MJ could / would or possibly has done a cameo appearance in full CM makeup - i dont think any of pics we see of CM in public such as at beach, pedicure, exercising etc, are MJ. i just think that, that would pose too much of an assassination / security risk to MJ, from a crazy non believer fan who wanted revenge / justice.
all hyperthetical speculation.
Yes - but what if all those pics of Murray on the beach, at the pool etc etc were actually taken a year before MJ "died" for them to have on hand to publish at a certain time down the track after the "death".
No-one would take any notice of him then. He would have been just a regular dude on a beach :mrgreen:
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 08, 2011, 12:13:43 AM
Well just in case this is true - I don't understand why Murray is on trial. There should be on trial all the doctors who agreed to indulge Michael in his crazy idea of sleeping with a needle in his leg every single night WTF?? WTF?? WTF??.
Post by: lilwendy on October 08, 2011, 01:39:53 AM
Thanks to all of you that have invested time, sacrificed sleep and consistently been posting on the boards. It makes catching up that much easier.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 08, 2011, 02:18:09 AM
bearhug
Post by: annieareyouokannie on October 08, 2011, 03:12:13 AM
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 08, 2011, 05:03:38 AM
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Post by: MJonmind on October 08, 2011, 05:25:57 AM
BeTheChange
Quote
Off to youtube to watch Mike perform his magic...at this very moment, he's about the only one that can improve my 'state of mind'. And he will....he always does.:lol: Yep that's what I do for a pleasurable pick-me-upper every few days these last 2 years!
Fatalkiss26
Quote
I thought it was a pic of paris...I was thinking Elvis, Paris and lastly Prince!
Adi
Quote
Yes - but what if all those pics of Murray on the beach, at the pool etc etc were actually taken a year before MJ "died" for them to have on hand to publish at a certain time down the track after the "death".
No-one would take any notice of him then. He would have been just a regular dude on a beach
I totally agree! There is the desire of magician/illusionists to do something the audience thinks is impossible, such as disappear from one spot on the stage and reappear in a far away spot a second later. MJ did this on tour using a double I believe, and this was also going to the illusion during TII where he would escape from bed to cherrypicker almost instantaneously, like he says in Threatened, "Be in two places at the same time". This was the trick of the movie, Prestige, and it was because of a unknown twin (one of them had even hacked off a finger to look like the other one). I think Michael deliberately picked Murray because of the difficulties and the similarities. I believe their facial structure is very similar, such as distances between eyes, distance from nose to top lip, size of chin, size and shape of ear, etc. (great facial comparison videos have been done) Remember Front talked about “stumbling blocks”, well a big stubbling block here is the obvious 6 ft. 6 in. height of Murray and the 5’9’’ of MJ. This is a type of illusion trick. The videos shown of Murray talking about how MJ’s children are his children, and how he loves Katherine like his own mother, speak volumes if it is actually MJ. In the DD interview, the stumbling block was the hands being deformed and stubs, and I believe there were some mechanisms that put out false hands but made the shoulders very wide. People eagerly ask the magician how he performed the seeming impossible, but he will just smile and of course will never tell. I’m sure you’ve all seen Chris Angel in action, and there is always some natural explanation, not supernatural though it doesn’t seem that way.
Nice to have you back lilwendy!
Post by: annieareyouokannie on October 08, 2011, 05:31:59 AM
Post by: annieareyouokannie on October 08, 2011, 05:33:20 AM
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 08, 2011, 09:30:41 AM
Here's the link..... http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHLLoQCqK8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 10:04:30 AM
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Thank you so much Forst for sharing this info. I don't know what kinds of procedures are applied in a crime scene and in a death scene. Pls correct me if I got it wrong. Does this mean that they didn't consider MJ's "death" as a crime at that time and that was the reason why they got it like a random death investigation and didn't use any gloves and changed the places of the objects?
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 10:18:36 AM
Hey Family....just wanted to share something I just watched on tv. My Hubby watches "Rob & Big" on MTV2 and the episode that was on was one of Rob dressing up as a fat man. Now if anyone knows who Rob Dyrdek is, he is a small guy....they put a fat face mask on him along with a fat suit. Then they took this very short man and put prosthetic leg lifts on him. They looked just like prosthetic legs, but were like stilts. He went from about 5'5 -5'6 (just guessing because he is short) to almost a 7 foot tall heavy man....and no one knew it was him. It showed him walking and you would not know he was not that tall if you didn't know any better. My point is, I do believe that anything is possible when it comes to Michael, and watching this show just confirmed in me that it is possible. I'm not saying that Michael is Murray everyday...but I think it's possible that Michael could be CM at times. Here's the video...This is the only copy I could find on youtube and it's not the greatest sorry for that. OK...I can not seem to figure out how to post this video so if anyone could help me out I would really appreciate it! Thanks bearhug
Here's the link..... http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHLLoQCqK8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
I added the video for you girl. Thank you for sharing the video. That was funny. :lol: The dude is a short one and they added extra plastic legs to make him tall but the arms were too short. :lol: That's what I was talking about when I wrote about the proportion of the arms and the lenght of the body wouldn't fit. You can not do the same for the arms unfortunately. You can make them longer with extra material but you can not move the fake hand like your own hand.
If we never saw Murray's legs and arms naked, and how tall the dude is, that could still be a possibility.
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 08, 2011, 11:10:29 AM
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Thank you so much Forst for sharing this info. I don't know what kinds of procedures are applied in a crime scene and in a death scene. Pls correct me if I got it wrong. Does this mean that they didn't consider MJ's "death" as a crime at that time and that was the reason why they got it like a random death investigation and didn't use any gloves and changed the places of the objects?
I am not sure what kind of procedures coroner uses to perform their duties and what are their standards of diligence. I do not know also how they interact with LAPD in case of investigation. Fleak confirmed that at that initial stage her investigation was a death investigation by coroner's office.
My common sense tells me that regardless of what kind of investigation you perform, gloves should be "must be", but that's only my way of looking at it.
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 11:22:34 AM
I dunno...any crime scene investigator would know NOT to move or touch anything...I've watched every episode of CSI to know that :)
and why is it that nobody has addressed this in court? Its so obvious.
:lol: same here Fatal. I watched lots of CSI series and after I watched the trial, now I'm wondering if that is only in the tv shows and not in real? They don't use gloves and change or add things to the area as they wish? Fleak said that there's no perfect investigation. That sounds funny when a professional says that.
Although I am not saying this all is real, but please keep in mind that unlike CSI - the original coroner investigation was not a crime investigation but death investigation.
I am of course not an expert in this and just only read some documents and research about it recently but it seems that there is a difference of carrying death versus crime investigation.
I also checked how it is done in my country (my dad is a prosecutor) and he confirmed, the procedures might be different, depending on circumstance. And most importantly: the purpose of investigation is different.
Thank you so much Forst for sharing this info. I don't know what kinds of procedures are applied in a crime scene and in a death scene. Pls correct me if I got it wrong. Does this mean that they didn't consider MJ's "death" as a crime at that time and that was the reason why they got it like a random death investigation and didn't use any gloves and changed the places of the objects?
I am not sure what kind of procedures coroner uses to perform their duties and what are their standards of diligence. I do not know also how they interact with LAPD in case of investigation. Fleak confirmed that at that initial stage her investigation was a death investigation by coroner's office.
My common sense tells me that regardless of what kind of investigation you perform, gloves should be "must be", but that's only my way of looking at it.
Yes, that is what I believe too. But if using gloves is a must, then why didn't Ed ask her why they didn't use any gloves? Or did he and I missed it? suspicious// She admitted that the investigation wasn't perfect but she also added any investigations are perfect. Did she say it because they didn't use the gloves OR for changing the places of the materials? Or both?
Post by: paula-c on October 08, 2011, 01:35:01 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21TB6_qZSU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21TB6_qZSU&feature=player_embedded
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 08, 2011, 01:41:27 PM
Quote
Yes, that is what I believe too. But if using gloves is a must, then why didn't Ed ask her why they didn't use any gloves? Or did he and I missed it? suspicious// She admitted that the investigation wasn't perfect but she also added any investigations are perfect. Did she say it because they didn't use the gloves OR for changing the places of the materials? Or both?
I think he just wanted to discredit her. His statements/questions regarding her standard of diligence where more of general nature, what IMO, was more difficult for her to oppose. :?
Post by: paula-c on October 08, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 08, 2011, 01:57:08 PM
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 08, 2011, 01:58:01 PM
The trial is great and the more i watch it, the more i see how CM reflects Michael in 2005. Of course he is an innocent black man, who is being bashed by the media. And also look how there are people coming into the court saying how great and kind CM is. That he is a wonderful doctor. And we also have others, someone like Alberto Alvarez saying that CM asked him if he knew how to do a CPR. So they are suggesting that CM was NOT a good doctor and it makes some people think if he is a real doctor after all. Which is exactly what happened to Michael in 2005. We had his supporters who were coming to the court and saying that Michael had done nothing bad to a child and that he is a wonderful loving person. And we also had others, who were claiming that Michael did those horrible things to a "child" (the guy was 13 years old, so it's hard for me to call him a child).
You guys are just great, all the clues you found in the court are great: the seal, the timing of fire alarm going off ect. /bravo/
I just wanted to upload a picture of another elephant in the courtroom. Sorry if it's been already posted
Also, did you see the pictures of Michael's bedroom? Man is it messy?! :lol: I wonder if it has some meaning to the hoax or it's just showing us that Michael is a real man?
The fire place and TV is on, who did it. If Michael was supposedly in another room the whole night and no one else was ever allowed into his room. The coroners got chilly and bored???
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 08, 2011, 04:02:57 PM
This is a proof that Michael is not a drug addict.
Exactly, but we actually already knew that from the AR, yet the media is portraying him as a junkie.
On twitter:QuoteThis is what the media did not tell you about the toxicology report on MJ:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9 (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dge7s9)
****Please note all the Not Detected listings for certain drugs.****
Heart Blood:
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Alcohol: Ethanol: negative- (None Detected)
Meperidine: Not Detected
Normeperidine: Not Detected
Norsertraline: Not detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon Not detected
Cocaine Metabolites: Not detected
cyanide: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Tizanidine: Not detected
Trichelorethanol: Not detected
7-Amnioclonazepam: Not detected
Oxazepam: Not detected
Temazepam: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Ephedrine: Not Detected
Methampehtamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Blood, Hospital
Acetaminophen: Not Detected
Barbituates: Not detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Noremperidine: Not Detected
Sertraline: Not Detected
Trazadone: Not Detected
Cocaine and Metabolics: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not Detected
7-Aminoclonazepam: Not Detected
Oxazepam: Not Detected
Temazepam: Not Detected
Carobxy-THC: Not Detected
Methanphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not Detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not etected
Phencyclidine: Not Detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
urine:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not detected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: NotDetected
Meperidine: NotDetected
Norineperidine: NotDetected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: NotDetected
Alprazolam: NotDetected
Zaleplon: Notdetected
cocaine and metabolites: Not Detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Ethchlorvynol: Not Detected
trichlorethanol: Not Detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Notdetected
Salicylate: NotDetected
Second Urine sample collected from scene:
Glucose: Negative
Acetaminophen: Not etected
Ethanol (alcohol) Not Detected
Barbituates: Not Detected
Meperidine: Not Detected
Norineperidine: Not Detected
Norsetraline: NotDetected
Sertraline: NotDetected
trazadone: Not Detected
Alprazolam: Not Detected
Zaleplon: Not Detected
cocaine and metabolites: Not detected
Fentanyl: Not detected
Carboxy-THC: Not Detected
Tetrehydrocannabinol: Not Detected
Amphetamine: Not Detected
Methamphetamine: Not Detected
Codeine: Not Detected
Hydrocodone: Not detected
Hydromorphone: Not Detected
Morphine: Not Detected
Oxycodone: Not detected
Phencycladine: Not detected
Salicylate: Not Detected
Now this is what was found Positive results of these:
Femoral Blood:
Lidocaine: .84 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 169 ng/ml
Propofol: 2.6 ug/ml
Heart Blood:
Lidocaine: .68 ug/ml
Diazepam: <0.10 ug/ml
Lorazepam: 162 ng/ml
Midazolam: 4.6 ng/ml
nordiazepam: <.05ug/ml
Carobon Monoxide: <10% saturation
Propofol: Present
Hemoglobin: 5.1%
Propofol: 3.2 ug/ml
Hospital Blood:
Diazepam: Present
Lidocaine: .51 ug/ml
Propofol: 4.1 ug/ml
Liver:
Lidocaine: .45 ug/g
Propofol: 6.2 ug/g
Stomach contents:
Lidocaine: 1.6 mg
Propofol .13 mg
Urine: Autopsy from bladder
Lidocaine: present
Midazolam: 6.8 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: Present
Propofol: .15 ug/ml
Urine from scene:
Lidocaine: Present
Midazolam: 25 ng/ml
Ephedrine: Present
Propofol: <0.10 ug/ml
vitreous Blood
Propofol: < 0.40 ug/ml
transcript from http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf) pages 41-48
Please see additional pages 49-51.
Certain media is not forthcoming on the testimony regarding toxicology. They would rather you question whether MJ was an addict and or dependent, but the truth is, the only drugs that were present in MJ's system were ones prescribed by Murray. NO barbituates, NO Opiates, NO amphetamines NO alcohol, NO demerol, no morphine substances were found in MJ's system.
And that IS the truth.
Grace, thank you so much for posting this.
Thanks for posting, Grace.
I'm so tired of hearing Nancy Grace say 'We all KNEW Michael Jackson was a junkie!'
Excuse me, who knew what?
Jane Valdez says 'One google search will show you that Jackson was a drug addict.'
I know MJ will come back when the timing is right, but I miss him so much and I'm getting frustrated listening to media garbage. They make money off of him even in 'death'. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when they have to report "MJ is....alive...." HA! lol
Now, I need to meditate and kill the negative thoughts in my mind.
Post by: Sarahli on October 08, 2011, 04:18:01 PM
Quote
Dr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 04:26:19 PM
Hello everyone! I am watching trial everyday, but unfortunately i don't have enough time to spend on the forum. I am moving to a new house, which is by the way villa #7 and i'm moving there tomorrow on October 9th, isn't it just perfect!!! ;D TS you are more than welcome to visit :lol:
The trial is great and the more i watch it, the more i see how CM reflects Michael in 2005. Of course he is an innocent black man, who is being bashed by the media. And also look how there are people coming into the court saying how great and kind CM is. That he is a wonderful doctor. And we also have others, someone like Alberto Alvarez saying that CM asked him if he knew how to do a CPR. So they are suggesting that CM was NOT a good doctor and it makes some people think if he is a real doctor after all. Which is exactly what happened to Michael in 2005. We had his supporters who were coming to the court and saying that Michael had done nothing bad to a child and that he is a wonderful loving person. And we also had others, who were claiming that Michael did those horrible things to a "child" (the guy was 13 years old, so it's hard for me to call him a child).
You guys are just great, all the clues you found in the court are great: the seal, the timing of fire alarm going off ect. /bravo/
I just wanted to upload a picture of another elephant in the courtroom. Sorry if it's been already posted
Also, did you see the pictures of Michael's bedroom? Man is it messy?! :lol: I wonder if it has some meaning to the hoax or it's just showing us that Michael is a real man?
The fire place and TV is on, who did it. If Michael was supposedly in another room the whole night and no one else was ever allowed into his room. The coroners got chilly and bored???
Kristina thank you for the pictures. :) That room looks so messy with stained, old furniture. I'm having a hard time believing that is Michael's room for real. That looks more like a film set to me. And exactly I was like :shock: the firefplace. These pictures were supposed to be taken in the middle of summer, so why is the fire place on? We were told that the room was cold and we also thought that it could be because there was a real corpse and they kept the room cold for it but now we see the fire place is on. And I'm all like WTF??
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 04:27:11 PM
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 08, 2011, 05:10:04 PM
About the state of the room this is what Murray said in the police interview:QuoteDr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
I'm also having a hard time believing that Michael actually lived in that house ???/
@PureLove, i think that we were told that the room was warm and we thought it was needed to keep the corpse warm. I think that you made a little mistake ;)). By the way, i didn't hear paramedics say it in court, or did i miss it? :oops:
Clearly Michael is the only person who could turn on the fireplace, as no one else was allowed into his room. The last time Michael could have been in his room before he "died" was either before rehearsal on June 24th, which would be around 5:00pm or after that on June 25th at around 1:00 am. But i don't see a reason for him to turn on a fireplace in his room at 1:00 am when he was going to sleep in another room. So supposedly he lit the fireplace at 5:00pm (regularly people don't do this, but supposedly it happened) on June 24th and went to a rehearsal, then he came back and forgot to turn it off, then he went to sleep and "died". Investigators arrived to the house at around 4:00 pm on June 25th, so the fireplace was on for at least 23 hours. From what i know, it seems to be very unlikely. Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 05:12:06 PM
About the state of the room this is what Murray said in the police interview:QuoteDr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
I'm also having a hard time believing that Michael actually lived in that house ???/
@PureLove, i think that we were told that the room was warm and we thought it was needed to keep the corpse warm. I think that you made a little mistake ;)).
Ohh yeahhh. That's right. So that explains why the fire place was on. :mrgreen: But the tv is weird still. Maybe the detectives wanted to watch some CSI series to learn what to do in an investigation place. :lol:
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 08, 2011, 05:36:47 PM
About the state of the room this is what Murray said in the police interview:QuoteDr. Murray: That would be the room where I would typically see him. No one was allowed to go into the other room to the left.
Detective Martinez: Oh.
Dr. Murray: I asked him about that, and typically wherever he lived, he always had two sites. First of all, he does not trust people coming into his room, because he said he had lost things before. And his room is always in a bad state, and not even the cleaners would be allowed to go in there. So I never went into that room.
So Michael being busy that would explain why it wasn't perfectly ordered geek/, that is if he lived there in the first place. I'm just going along the script.
I'm also having a hard time believing that Michael actually lived in that house ???/
@PureLove, i think that we were told that the room was warm and we thought it was needed to keep the corpse warm. I think that you made a little mistake ;)).
Ohh yeahhh. That's right. So that explains why the fire place was on. :mrgreen: But the tv is weird still. Maybe the detectives wanted to watch some CSI series to learn what to do in an investigation place. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I have an Xbox CSI game, so i've solved a couple of crimes there, i think that coroner's investigators need one too. ;D
Still the fireplace is on in the wrong room. suspicious//
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 08, 2011, 06:19:55 PM
Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
They mentioned in court it was a "gas" fireplace, but I had pointed out earlier in this thread that there is NO way it was a gas fireplace...he has a fireplace tool set next to the fireplace and you would only need that if it was a wood burning fireplace.
Post by: PureLove on October 08, 2011, 06:21:55 PM
Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
They mentioned in court it was a "gas" fireplace, but I had pointed out earlier in this thread that there is NO way it was a gas fireplace...he has a fireplace tool set next to the fireplace and you would only need that if it was a wood burning fireplace.
So everything keeps on contradicting. Good. :mrgreen:
Post by: Mish1981 on October 08, 2011, 06:32:55 PM
Do we have a fireplace and burning wood experts here? fresse/
They mentioned in court it was a "gas" fireplace, but I had pointed out earlier in this thread that there is NO way it was a gas fireplace...he has a fireplace tool set next to the fireplace and you would only need that if it was a wood burning fireplace.
I'm sorry that's not true. I have been to many homes including two of my mothers and my aunts home all which have gas fire places and they have the tools for a fire place. Of course these are not used they are simply for show. Just thought I'd share so it's not a misconception. ;)
Post by: MissG on October 08, 2011, 06:36:36 PM
The gas escapes and you die in your sleep.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 08, 2011, 09:37:45 PM
Hey Family....just wanted to share something I just watched on tv. My Hubby watches "Rob & Big" on MTV2 and the episode that was on was one of Rob dressing up as a fat man. Now if anyone knows who Rob Dyrdek is, he is a small guy....they put a fat face mask on him along with a fat suit. Then they took this very short man and put prosthetic leg lifts on him. They looked just like prosthetic legs, but were like stilts. He went from about 5'5 -5'6 (just guessing because he is short) to almost a 7 foot tall heavy man....and no one knew it was him. It showed him walking and you would not know he was not that tall if you didn't know any better. My point is, I do believe that anything is possible when it comes to Michael, and watching this show just confirmed in me that it is possible. I'm not saying that Michael is Murray everyday...but I think it's possible that Michael could be CM at times. Here's the video...This is the only copy I could find on youtube and it's not the greatest sorry for that. OK...I can not seem to figure out how to post this video so if anyone could help me out I would really appreciate it! Thanks bearhug
Here's the link..... http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8 (http://youtu.be/qiHLLoQCqK8)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHLLoQCqK8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Thanks for posting this! It, of course, doesn't prove that Murray is Mike...but it does prove that the technology to increase a man's size a few inches IS available...which is something that was in 'dispute'. We can put that to rest, at least. And the technology used in "Rob & Big" would, of course, be proportionate to their budget...imagine what they could do, if they so chose, if they had the budget dedicated to the 'Greatest Show on Earth'.
Where there's a will...there's a way. When that 'will' is Mike's....anything is possible.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Grace on October 09, 2011, 03:38:07 AM
I am amused and touched at the same moment by this picture:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1778;image)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1778;image)
because there is not only a mess, but THERE IS A FIRE BURNING.
End of June, right, we need a fire in L.A.? It's freezingly cold when everybody has left the house except those cleaning staff forgetting about the water taps (or fire hoses), right?
So it's safe to say that there is no fire needed when everybody has moved out from a "crime scene" house and it's also safe to say that at the moment the picture was taken after everybody had moved out of a "crime scene" house, the fire did neither have to warm up the room nor a freezing patient nor a coroner's or LAPD photographer or paparazzi. Right?
So either the photo was taken BEFORE or DURING the "crime scene" set up to be "warming up a room with a freezing patient" (and not afterwards) or somebody had the guts to light a fire after everybody had left the scene "to make it look like a real fire in the real room at the very true moment".
Breath. LOL
I am saying "warming up" since it's a tiny fire. This size cannot be used to produce much heat.
So the timing of this fire is not right, supporting the "heat cause" is not right and thus the question is: why is there a fire at all on this photo allegedly taken end of June 2009 in L.A. at an empty "crime scene" for documenting purposes?
My thoughts:
1) a fire is alive
2) a fire burns something to ashes
3) a fire produces smoke (inevitably as can be seen in this chimney as well)
4) a fire is being ignited by a spark
5) a fire needs to be taken care of
6) a fire needs to be guarded
7) "keep the fire burnin'"
(and as I'm old socks LOL, I was reminded of REO Speedwagon and their song)
Quote
Keep the fire burnin'
Let it keep us warm.
The world will keep on turnin' -
Let it turn you on.
Let us not stop learnin'
We can help one another be strong
Let us never lose our yearnin'
To keep the fire burnin' all night long.
You've been changing so much
I'm not sure you're in touch with what's real.
You just come and you go
Never letting me know how you feel.
And I'm livin' here in doubt
There's so much to talk about
I know that we can work it out.
We can - keep the fire burnin'
. . .
We've been thru this enough
It gets rough but there's nowhere to run
This is where we belong.
We are stronq we can never give up
Or we wanted to we could
But we've always understood
To keep knockin' for the good.
Oh
keep the fire burnin'
. . .
Keep the fire burin'
. . .[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ3GU89qm8Q[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ3GU89qm8Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ3GU89qm8Q)
Blessings and L.O.V.E. to all!
As Michael said: "Lights out - let it burn!"
Post by: BeTheChange on October 09, 2011, 08:10:58 AM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on October 09, 2011, 09:03:05 AM
So now we are here, talking again about the temperature of the room, the fireplace etc. I still have to wonder if it's June at all. I have a gas fireplace in my bedroom. I am, by nature a cold person...not cold-hearted, lol.....just cold. Even I don't use the fireplace in June. I am not in CA, but have lived there. It's not cold enough in June. So, I figure you guys on must be onto something corpse-wise, it's not June at all, or there was an ambiance needed for that day that required a fire going. I have no idea....at this point a good cup of coffee is needed, I'm cold : )
Blessings for a great Sunday!
Post by: Mish1981 on October 09, 2011, 09:59:35 AM
Question: Has it been mentioned by anyone that something was missing?
Thoughts: A fire is always a good way to destroy or get rid of things you don't want others to have or find.
Post by: MissG on October 09, 2011, 10:34:27 AM
this synchronicity has happened often lately :lol:
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 09, 2011, 10:41:57 AM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 09, 2011, 10:43:04 AM
@Mish...I just logged in to the forum to post a thought that came to my mind while doing my french manicure :lol: and the thought was...."the fire place is burning and documents are all over the place=possible destroying documents?":lol: It has, hasn't it! Great minds think alike. I love it...Even if for some reason we are wrong on our thinking, at least we can say we thought of it, examined it, and debunked it, but we're not leaving any stone unturned or ruling anything out without properly doing so. ;)
this synchronicity has happened often lately :lol:
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 09, 2011, 10:45:16 AM
Post by: MissG on October 09, 2011, 10:52:37 AM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 09, 2011, 10:56:10 AM
Post by: MissG on October 09, 2011, 11:10:15 AM
I wish i could zoom this pic...is it a beer bottle on the fire place?, and, who´s on that pic?
also the chair..has 2 spots...on the back and the sit
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 09, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
At this point who's to say. We haven't been privileged enough for specifics. Did Murray mention that he or Michael watched a video the night of the 24th? I wonder what was playing?
CM said that Michael wouldn't let anyone into his room. So it means that CM couldn't watch a tape with Michael. Plus CM said that when Michael came back from rehearsal he took a shower and then the whole propofol circus started.
I was also thinking that maybe Michael destroyed something in the fire, but how will we ever know. Maybe in up coming days there will be something mentioned in the court.
Here are the pictures of Michael's bathroom, also VERY messy!
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 09, 2011, 02:41:20 PM
Investigator moved bags around and some vials too /overreacting/
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 09, 2011, 03:03:50 PM
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57
Post by: MissG on October 09, 2011, 03:08:46 PM
Also, nobody was allowed there...so...did Michael arrange flowers every time was needed? or are those plastic flowers?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1791;image)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 09, 2011, 03:10:32 PM
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
Sorry (because I don't know) but was this box set before or after 2009?
Post by: Andrea on October 09, 2011, 03:11:37 PM
Post by: MissG on October 09, 2011, 03:22:49 PM
"We" see the trial from another perspective, but the rest of the world do as believing that Murray killed Michael, they believe all the pics shown and aren´t suspicious at all as we seem to be.
At times i pinch myself to get back to reality and go with the flow but...I just can´t see this trial´s evidences as real or professional.
For my future mental health Michael must reveal himself soon geek/
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 09, 2011, 03:27:44 PM
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
Sorry (because I don't know) but was this box set before or after 2009?
It was in April 2009.
Those photos remind me of the photos the cops took when they raided Neverland. There was stuff everywhere, no sense of order. I don't know if that was the cops doing or what.
Yes Andrea, that's what i was thinking. I even found and very similar picture from Neverland. I also don't know who did the mess, Michael or cops. The TV is also on, but the fireplace is off.
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/y5gFZnhpm6n/Michael+s+private+parts/1vqtnZPy3-g/Neverland+Ranch
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Michael+s+private+parts+1vqtnZPy3-gl.jpg)
And at Neverland he had lot's of mannequins, but none in the new house! And also nothing related to Disney or Piter Pan!
Post by: PureLove on October 09, 2011, 03:34:49 PM
On these pictures we can see that the fist picture was taken on June 25th and all the other ones on June 26th. On 26th the black case appeared on the tub and no one seems to know who's it is. Investigator Elissa Fleak doesn't know how it got there. Detective Smith also doesn't know who's it is and how it got there. Any ideas? ;D
Investigator moved bags around and some vials too /overreacting/
Thank you for the pictures Kristina. It looks like the black case is not the only thing that appeared in the batroom. I can not see that purple bag in the first two pictures but in the third one only. They added or changed the places of the objects which is very weird imo.
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 09, 2011, 03:45:46 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSL1YMC414&feature=related[/youtube]
Did they do the same this time??? :evil:
Look what the bathroom was supposed to look like.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 09, 2011, 03:50:45 PM
I found the answer! Dirty cops destroyed Michael's room at Neverland. Start at 4:35
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSL1YMC414&feature=related[/youtube]
Did they do the same this time??? :evil:
Look what the bathroom was supposed to look like.
OH MY that's a beautiful view of the bathroom!
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 09, 2011, 04:16:12 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 09, 2011, 04:36:34 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
Thank you for the articles! The Joel Sandler's story was so funny, poor guy, he didn't even talk, he explained everything to a hit man through cards which he later destroyed, but he still got cought! :lol: And the story about a wife who wanted to kill her husband really deserves a movie to be shot about it.
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?
Post by: Andrea on October 09, 2011, 04:43:48 PM
I found the answer! Dirty cops destroyed Michael's room at Neverland. Start at 4:35
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSL1YMC414&feature=related[/youtube]
Did they do the same this time??? :evil:
Look what the bathroom was supposed to look like.
I think Michael always had a good relationship with police forces (look at all the photos of him with police) UNTIL they tried to make an innocent man guilty, and treated him that way. Police brutality. ASSumption of guilt. Could there be a sting there?
The similarities between the Neverland and Carolwood police photos is deliberate. Two "crime" scenes where no crime was actually committed, and two innocent men.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 04:46:53 PM
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
If this is a revenge on those that prosecuted him in 2003-2005 and tried the same in 1993, then please explain to me why he decided to 'die' in LA county, and not in SB county.
Post by: Sarahli on October 09, 2011, 05:15:20 PM
..... so here it goes about this Police interview (http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1007_conrad_murray_transcript.pdf). I want to highlight certain things that caught my attention:
- First how come TMZ got hold of this transcript BEFORE it has even been heard in its entirety during the trial? WHO leaked it? WHY? Hmmmm............... suspicious// Bearing this in mind, I wonder what will be the judge's reaction on Tuesday? He should normally be FURIOUS! If he isn't then we will be able to draw a conclusion about that..........
- Detective Martinez mentions "the circus" on page 7, I know it may seem looking too much into things but I have learned that there are NO coincidences in this Hoax. We know the importance of the "circus" theme in the hoax so it might be helpful to see things in the right perspective.
-Dr Murray at some point mentions that he went downstairs to call the chef "I think her name is Rose". Hmmm...well...for someone who works 6 days a week in this house I find it strange that he doesn't know her name. I mean she is also the one who prepares his meals. And to top it all he didn't know the address of the house! :roll:
-Something about TIME. I couldn't help but laugh when Murray mentions that he looked at the sun as well to know what time it was! :lol: I presume he looked at the moon and the stars at night! :lol: Well if you have read the interview you understand that Murray has a watch, at one point he says "I didn't look at my watch", so he clearly has one. So I am wondering what happened to his watch when he arrived at UCLA and that he was asked by, I think it was Dr. Nguyen, at what time the patient stopped breathing. Murray's answer was "I have no watch". So what happened? Did he lie on purpose to not have to give a time? Hmmm again....
Another thing about time: Murray possesses 2 phones and had plenty of time to give numerous phone calls BUT he said that he was away from Michael for only 2 minutes. It doesn't add up. suspicious//
-Murray says that Michael had said "I am treated like a machine". It's not the first time that we hear this word, the person from AEG (Gongaware?) who testified, also said that Michael referred to himself as a "machine". So I'm of the opinion that it has an important meaning. Maybe that Michael is trying to tell us that the people who worked with him, some people in the industry treated him like a (cash?) machine without considering his health. They probably always wanted more and more from him without taking into consideration his well being. It's very possible that it's the message here.
Now I want to highlight something else and I think it's another BIG clue imo. In the article below it is mentioned:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a344638/conrad-murray-home-repossessed-before-michael-jackson-trial.html
Quote
Murray managed to renegotiate the terms of his mortgage, but the house was auctioned off for just £500,000 ($777,000) earlier this year.
I see 777 .... this is a VERY significant number! /woohoo/
Someone mentioned in another thread that it reminds them of Michael losing his house before the 2005 trial.....another parallel with Michael here and I think it's validated with the 777!
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 09, 2011, 05:24:13 PM
Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/corpsebody-1.jpg)Anyone? I had not been on the forum for 2 days after I posted this. I am just now reading the comments. Can I get anyone to read this regarding stings and make a comment? As for the theory that the sting part is for entertainment/hoaxing/non-fiction, how does that play into the revenge/vendetta part that MJ would want to do for the shit the DA/police did to him in 1993 and 2005? That is a big motivator regarding the sting/FBI connection. What better way to take down corruption and exact revenge on those who tried to murder your reputation. rr/
This pic is the one I captured during the trial. It is clearer than the green hue pic the DA used in opening statements but it still has a overtone color of yellow to it. This pic makes MJ's skin look tinted yellow like if he was jaundice. :?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/dramaticday-1.jpg)
This pic I captured from the video and it appears even clearer. The skin actually appears more white and normal. These pics have been altered but by who? Who made the one with the yellow tint? Who made the clearer one? One possibility with the pic in the hoax vid would be the video maker cleaned it up but who knows? While looking at these pics a thought dawned on me that this reminds me so much of proof of death. It is the opposite of proof of life. In a proof of death pic it has to appear like the person is dead. That also got me to thinking about contract murder for hire stings. I came across 2 very interesting articles on REAL LIFE sting operations to stop a murder for hire plot. These are well worth the read especially the elaborate deception the police did to catch the crook. Food for thought. 8-)
Joel Sandler's Murder for Hire
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/dd_joel_sandler/1_index.html
Unprecedented Murder-4-Hire Sting
http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2010/08/unprecedented-murder-4-hire-sting.html
Thank you for the articles! The Joel Sandler's story was so funny, poor guy, he didn't even talk, he explained everything to a hit man through cards which he later destroyed, but he still got cought! :lol: And the story about a wife who wanted to kill her husband really deserves a movie to be shot about it.
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 05:45:35 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am both on your side and bec's (not TS' by the way, because he already lost big time with his lame theory and cheating), because I think it's a hoax court which is a part of a sting, just not against the prosecution or judge. It makes no sense. What I do think one of the possibilities is, is that we are being shown what happened in 2003-2005 with Mike's own trial. The fuck ups, tampering of evidence etc. that were never pointed out by anyone, because they did not want him to win his case. Maybe they have proof of THAT scam, and maybe we are being shown the scam and the proof piece by piece. I do not have a solid theory on that yet, but that is the feeling I get from this. I hope you get what I mean because it's more clear in my head than it is in my fingers.
I agree on many other parts you point out (20 years, FBI involvement, sting), just not that the DA or judge is the target and so far, you have not convinced me otherwise.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 09, 2011, 07:11:43 PM
She LOVED Come Together...until she saw Dirty Diana! That did it. LOL Now she wants a DVD with that on it! Sorry I took so long TS but I have been busy dealing with family issues and the fall out drama that tends to follow. Two heart attacks, lawyers, meddling Aunt, my Mom's disinheritance, family from out of State & a former Step father in the hospital...all this along with the fraud on our checking account. The last month & a half is a blur. Add to that major bangbang problems. OMG! I know how WISHINGSTAR feels. My computer HATES this new forum layout. (sorry Souza) It took me 20 min to post last time. We have uninstalled, reinstalled etc; it's better but still slow. BUT I'M HERE! I haven't been able to read the forum or watch the /judge/ every single day. It's been a roller coaster. Esp when that damn picture came out. OK, so we've been set for this with the ambulance pic; but it was still hard to take with emotions running high. So thank you for the Kangaroo Court redirect. I needed that. bearhug Speaking of Ambo pic. Those leaves remind me of the leaves in MJ's black jacket he wore during his and Lisa's Wedding portraits...that's been bugging me for months! I knew there was something familiar about it. Fire alarm going off/pulled 7 times during time of death?! OMG! The 32 stars in the seal? Someone is being BAD. LOL mj_bad/ Ok. Hoax Court with a side of STING please. Target? ...multiple I'm guessing but I bet there's medical & drug industry in there somewhere.Drugs? Show me the Drugs! Where's the Demerol?! I'm about to strangle Nancy & Jane both! And that tape! I always said it sounded like someone talking in their sleep or going under... http://www.lvrj.com/news/55332672.html (http://www.lvrj.com/news/55332672.html) And now I think we have something. DO WE KNOW OR HAVE PROOF OF WHEN MURRAY TAPED MJ??? What if it was during these dentist visits?
Anyway; got to run. L.O.V.E. TO ALL /bravo/
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 08:43:06 PM
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
Thos kinds of stings, the small time murder for hire, are small time because they aren't dealing with professionals. They are dealing with amateurs who would be fooled by a "death" photo and be induced to remit payment or in another way expose themselves upon receipt of proof of death.
Professionals at this game, ie the mafia, are not inclined to be satisfied with and therefore fooled by a "death" pic for the obvious reason that they are easy to fake. There's not even any blood or dismemberment in these pics (ambu and gurney). Professionals want body parts to prove death, not pics.
So the question remains, who would be inclined to expose themselves by changing their behavior by the act of MJ being dead... and especially being dead in this way. The only answer I can come up with to satisfy the logic parameters of this situation is the media... and the fans.
In addition, if the FBI thought the Prosecutors and DA were so corrupt in the 2005 trial against MJ, they don't NEED to do a sting operation... there IS PROOF ALREADY on the record in regards to their behavior in trial and handling evidence.
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
Back=I'm BACK
Front=I'm [right in] FRONT [of you]
[/right]
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 09:10:01 PM
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 09:23:37 PM
I don't have any idea who she is, or what her wearing a mask or prosthesis means, but she was never identified by face before the trial. There are zero photographs of her online, we have been searching for one since early 2010. This would explain why, if she is indeed wearing a mask.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 09, 2011, 09:25:01 PM
I agree with a lot bec, but as I told you on Skype: the FBI is involved, so there has to be a sting. I don't think the FBI would be involved if it was just a movie. But who is the target or are the targets?
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php) (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
souza the video you provided it is not with Richelle Cooper it is with aMr. Johnson.. IS that the person you are refuring too?
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 09:26:54 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 09:27:35 PM
I agree with a lot bec, but as I told you on Skype: the FBI is involved, so there has to be a sting. I don't think the FBI would be involved if it was just a movie. But who is the target or are the targets?
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php) (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
souza the video you provided it is not with Richelle Cooper it is with aMr. Johnson.. IS that the person you are refuring too?
I did say: scroll down. There are more videos.
Post by: Andrea on October 09, 2011, 09:38:35 PM
She has a young voice. I'm just going to say it: could it be Paris? Is this what the acting classes were for? suspicious//
Possible, but that's a lot of medical jargon to learn and a huge responsibility for someone so young, smart as she is.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 09, 2011, 09:47:12 PM
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
Thos kinds of stings, the small time murder for hire, are small time because they aren't dealing with professionals. They are dealing with amateurs who would be fooled by a "death" photo and be induced to remit payment or in another way expose themselves upon receipt of proof of death.
Professionals at this game, ie the mafia, are not inclined to be satisfied with and therefore fooled by a "death" pic for the obvious reason that they are easy to fake. There's not even any blood or dismemberment in these pics (ambu and gurney). Professionals want body parts to prove death, not pics.
So the question remains, who would be inclined to expose themselves by changing their behavior by the act of MJ being dead... and especially being dead in this way. The only answer I can come up with to satisfy the logic parameters of this situation is the media... and the fans.
In addition, if the FBI thought the Prosecutors and DA were so corrupt in the 2005 trial against MJ, they don't NEED to do a sting operation... there IS PROOF ALREADY on the record in regards to their behavior in trial and handling evidence.
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
Back=I'm BACK
Front=I'm [right in] FRONT [of you]
bec-The funny thing is you totally didn't get my point when I was talking about a proof of death pic. I was not referring to the articles and the proof of death pic being used in those cases. I AM saying that MJ's proof of death pic is for ALL of the people who wanted him dead and you are wrong when it comes to Mafia not falling for a pic. I am a true crime junkie and have been for a long time. I have read and watched any and everything mob influenced. The idea of a proof of death pic actually came from a scene in which a mobster had a hit on him and he needed to fake his death. There was police/FBI help and a proof of death pic was taken and then shown to the mobster who wanted the guy dead.
Here is something else that I do not do, you seem to resort to alot and that is personal attacks.
Quote
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.This is how you operate and I figured your tactics out a long time ago. It probably works for those who are weak minded but that is not me. I come from a criminal background and have played mind games all my life. None of what I wrote is fantastical and there is no assuming necessary.
IF you notice in my comment I did not identify the court system or DA'S office by county. REASON: because it ALL is under scrutiny. Yes the corruption of Sneddon and company is on the record but it didn't get told or exposed UNTIL MJ died and the FBI released the files proving that. The exposing of the most corrupt city LA would most certainly be a high priority of MJ's and not random at all. MJ's philosophy is justice, helping those in need, holding a mirror up to bad behavior, speaking up for those who can not speak for themselves, etc. The other thing is you really underestimate the good in people in the FBI and them wanting to help MJ expose ALL forms of evil.
Another thing you completely crush is the Elvis connections. Elvis is very much a part of this hoax and what he did with the FBI. I do not agree that MJ is small potatoes to the FBI and you need to do more research before you make an assumptious statement that the FBI would not go to great lengths of faking a trial to catch a criminal. I am not even going to respond to the entrapment issue as stated by you because it was clearly not understood by you when it has been explained more than once what that means. The funny thing here is you are the one doing more of the fantasy work in your theory but like to point fingers on me to deflect your inaccuracies.
You also interject alot of assumptions into what I write and add your own comments onto mine as IF that is what I was saying. I have never had a problem of clearing up any misunderstandings of what I mean.
My comment and yours are opinions only and no proof is provided but in the end the proof will come when this is over. I also find it very funny when those who gave FRONT such a hard time from the beginning now quote him and kiss his ass like it is golden. WTF??
Souza-The things I added here should clear up what I meant in my other comment. I do not think this is being isolated to the DA and court system in SB or LA. I did understand what you were saying in regards to us seeing what happened to MJ in 2005 trial being told to us through this trial. I agree and have thought so for a long time.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 09:47:37 PM
She has a young voice. I'm just going to say it: could it be Paris? Is this what the acting classes were for? suspicious//
Possible, but that's a lot of medical jargon to learn and a huge responsibility for someone so young, smart as she is.
True, but I think she could pull it off. Look at what even younger kids often have to do and say in movies. I know that that isn't live, but still. It would be harder imo for an adult, because they are not able to absorb information like kids can. I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of a child, most definitely not since Paris has said many times that she wants to be an actress. I am not saying it's her, I just think it could be her because of that young voice. And if it's her, then give the kid an Oscar! :lol:
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 09:55:37 PM
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1797;image)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1798;image)
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 10:01:19 PM
Quote
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 10:06:44 PM
Do you think that someone wanted to kill Michael for real and that's how FBI got involved and that's why we have a trial? But doesn't it kill the whole 20+ years of preparation for the hoax? :? Or i didn't understand something from what you said?Thank you Kristina4LOVE-I do believe there were attempts on MJ's life. I also believe there was 20 years prep for the hoax. The FBI got involved imo because of when the DA had them investigating him during the first allegations. While the FBI was doing their investigation they found nothing on MJ that would make him guilty but they did find plenty of wrong doing on the court system, DA's office, etc. The articles I posted were to show how the police will stage a scene in order to catch a crook. I also posted them to show that there is an elemant of Murder for hire sting happening. Murray was hired for Murder of the KOP. The house seems staged and with the help of key people it is made to seem real. The things that have been exposed in the last 2 years like Illuminati, NWO, secret societies, etc. would not have been possible for MJ to do while he was alive to those who wanted him dead. The proof of death pic is very gangster. That is something that is done in a sting op when the person(s) need proof the target is dead.
Souza-How many times have we heard that MJ would not want to live in Neverland after the police ruined it for him? By the time this hoax was to come to fruitation Sneddon had already retired. MJ had already lived like a self imposed exhiled vagabond before he came back. The TII concert rehearsals were happening in LA because that is where the studios are and that is where the Staples Center is located. AEG owns the Staples Center and since this turned out to be a hoax/movie it makes sense to use what is available for MJ's needs. I also read that MJ wanted to be near Elizabeth and the Elvis house. I gotta go now but I will add more later. fresse/
Thos kinds of stings, the small time murder for hire, are small time because they aren't dealing with professionals. They are dealing with amateurs who would be fooled by a "death" photo and be induced to remit payment or in another way expose themselves upon receipt of proof of death.
Professionals at this game, ie the mafia, are not inclined to be satisfied with and therefore fooled by a "death" pic for the obvious reason that they are easy to fake. There's not even any blood or dismemberment in these pics (ambu and gurney). Professionals want body parts to prove death, not pics.
So the question remains, who would be inclined to expose themselves by changing their behavior by the act of MJ being dead... and especially being dead in this way. The only answer I can come up with to satisfy the logic parameters of this situation is the media... and the fans.
In addition, if the FBI thought the Prosecutors and DA were so corrupt in the 2005 trial against MJ, they don't NEED to do a sting operation... there IS PROOF ALREADY on the record in regards to their behavior in trial and handling evidence.
It's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
Back=I'm BACK
Front=I'm [right in] FRONT [of you]
bec-The funny thing is you totally didn't get my point when I was talking about a proof of death pic. I was not referring to the articles and the proof of death pic being used in those cases. I AM saying that MJ's proof of death pic is for ALL of the people who wanted him dead and you are wrong when it comes to Mafia not falling for a pic. I am a true crime junkie and have been for a long time. I have read and watched any and everything mob influenced. The idea of a proof of death pic actually came from a scene in which a mobster had a hit on him and he needed to fake his death. There was police/FBI help and a proof of death pic was taken and then shown to the mobster who wanted the guy dead.
Here is something else that I do not do, you seem to resort to alot and that is personal attacks.QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.This is how you operate and I figured your tactics out a long time ago. It probably works for those who are weak minded but that is not me. I come from a criminal background and have played mind games all my life. None of what I wrote is fantastical and there is no assuming necessary.
IF you notice in my comment I did not identify the court system or DA'S office by county. REASON: because it ALL is under scrutiny. Yes the corruption of Sneddon and company is on the record but it didn't get told or exposed UNTIL MJ died and the FBI released the files proving that. The exposing of the most corrupt city LA would most certainly be a high priority of MJ's and not random at all. MJ's philosophy is justice, helping those in need, holding a mirror up to bad behavior, speaking up for those who can not speak for themselves, etc. The other thing is you really underestimate the good in people in the FBI and them wanting to help MJ expose ALL forms of evil.
Another thing you completely crush is the Elvis connections. Elvis is very much a part of this hoax and what he did with the FBI. I do not agree that MJ is small potatoes to the FBI and you need to do more research before you make an assumptious statement that the FBI would not go to great lengths of faking a trial to catch a criminal. I am not even going to respond to the entrapment issue as stated by you because it was clearly not understood by you when it has been explained more than once what that means. The funny thing here is you are the one doing more of the fantasy work in your theory but like to point fingers on me to deflect your inaccuracies.
You also interject alot of assumptions into what I write and add your own comments onto mine as IF that is what I was saying. I have never had a problem of clearing up any misunderstandings of what I mean.
My comment and yours are opinions only and no proof is provided but in the end the proof will come when this is over. I also find it very funny when those who gave FRONT such a hard time from the beginning now quote him and kiss his ass like it is golden. WTF??
Souza-The things I added here should clear up what I meant in my other comment. I do not think this is being isolated to the DA and court system in SB or LA. I did understand what you were saying in regards to us seeing what happened to MJ in 2005 trial being told to us through this trial. I agree and have thought so for a long time.
So HOW is this trial going to expose the DA, the judge, the County of SB and the County of LA? And if the DA and judge are targets, then how come they don't smell a rat? Why did Walgren not object when Chernoff pointed the finger at Klein in his opening statement? That was a huge reason for objection. Why is Walgren not wearing gloves, then wearing gloves and then again not wearing gloves when handling the evidence, while he knows he's being seen by millions of people? There is much more, but you get my point. Although I do believe the American justice system is being exposed here (in general), I do not see this DA or judge as a target. I do hope that Sneddon et al are targets, and maybe we will find out later in the trial how, if that is the case, but I don't get your theory, sorry.
And btw: can you and bec stay nice to each other please? In defense of bec, she always talks like that and I really don't think she is getting personal. She doesn't even know you. Let's keep it chill in here. Like Pastor would say: "Sit back and relax".
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 09, 2011, 10:12:40 PM
I agree with a lot bec, but as I told you on Skype: the FBI is involved, so there has to be a sting. I don't think the FBI would be involved if it was just a movie. But who is the target or are the targets?
I am also going to throw this in (after asking bec if she saw the same as I did) and I might get dirt thrown at me, but is Richelle Cooper's face real? Her mouth barely moves. It's as if there is someone underneeath a mask with a much shorter head. I am starting to think there are more people under masks here...
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/testimonies_day_4.php) (scroll down)
BTW: I am NOT saying it's Michael. I am only saying that I think that Richelle Cooper is wearing a prostetic mask, whoever it is.
souza the video you provided it is not with Richelle Cooper it is with aMr. Johnson.. IS that the person you are refuring too?
I did say: scroll down. There are more videos.
Ok sorry to have bothered you .. Thanks.. will scroll down..
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 10:13:21 PM
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 10:19:27 PM
Quote
In defense of bec, she always talks like that
Talks like what? confused/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 10:20:25 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 10:21:46 PM
QuoteIn defense of bec, she always talks like that
Talks like what? confused/
Like a marine :lol:
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 10:22:35 PM
Post by: Andrea on October 09, 2011, 10:25:39 PM
Quote
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
Makes a lot of sense. The movie in real-life thing reminded me of Borat, because although Borat is a fictitious character, the actor always remained in character "filming his documentary" and the movie involves his real-life interactions with Americans who were none the wiser. It was pretty controversial at the time. Even after the movie came out, he remained in character to promote the movie. Hilarious example:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2PyiuxfZ5Q&feature=related[/youtube]
What Michael is doing is on a far grander scale obviously but what you said bec is very possible and even quite likely.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 09, 2011, 11:15:14 PM
Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.
@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 11:27:13 PM
And I am stepping out of this convo, because I do not feel like being drawn into this catfight, sorry. You feel attacked to quickly in my honest opinion when it's not necessary. Didn't you just explain a few days ago that words on a screen can come across different than how they are meant? Or does that only apply to your posts?
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 11:34:43 PM
Because I'm talking about the THEORY, Im_convinced, not about YOU. Why you are equating your personal SELF with the THEORY I do not understand.Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Draw a line of separation, Im_convinced. YOU do not equate the Sting THEORY.
Post by: bec on October 09, 2011, 11:44:09 PM
The Hoax Court theory stands at this juncture, so I feel confident that I can walk away from direct debates as we were invited to perform without feeling that I haven't given it my due diligence.
I will, however, continue to participate in the thread as we go forward with the information and as events progress.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 09, 2011, 11:51:51 PM
Because I'm talking about the THEORY, Im_convinced, not about YOU. Why you are equating your personal SELF with the THEORY I do not understand.Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Draw a line of separation, Im_convinced. YOU do not equate the Sting THEORY.
Sure if you put it that way but IF I didn't believe what I was saying then why would I even defend the theory? So for me it is personal because it is what I believe and it is my theory.
Souza-I am gonna answer you here in bec's post. I can not explain the things you asked. I do believe it is odd for a DA to handle evidence in court with no gloves and then put them on only during some because the stuff he was touching was medical waste. I think there is alot of odd things going on and until this is over honestly I do not think all of it will be so obvious with an answer. After I watched the EMT's testify I sway more to they are involved in the hoax. The one thing I noticed is during all the testimony of those who were in the room helping to move the body some of the people who were in the room at the same time never mentioned the other one during testimony. Alvarez never talked about Faheem and Faheem never mentioned Alvarez. Just one example.
Off topic-Yesterday my daughter and I went to the movies and watched Smurfs- lolol/
We like the cat the most. :mrgreen:
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 09, 2011, 11:58:51 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 10, 2011, 12:27:50 AM
But if it has to be a real body that could fool the ones who saw it, who's body could it be? It must look like MJ, at least a little. And THIS is again hard to believe - that they found a body to match all the criteria, or they found a patient suffering of a terminal illness and who looked like MJ and was about to die on June 25th.
Nothing makes sense to me about the body....well except the case the body was Michael's.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 10, 2011, 12:30:23 AM
The other recognized him - well maybe this one is in the hoax.
But he lied under oath?
I couldn't watch the testimonies of the doctors at UCLA - I am curious if they mentioned about recognizing MJ or not.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 10, 2011, 12:31:40 AM
@Im_convinced, in addition to my last post I have to say that I am finding it increasingly difficult to debate this subject with you. You seem to be taking my challenges to the Sting Court theory as challenges aimed at yourself. You seem to be personifying the theory which makes it difficult to have a debate on the subject without your feelings being hurt in the process.
The Hoax Court theory stands at this juncture, so I feel confident that I can walk away from direct debates as we were invited to perform without feeling that I haven't given it my due diligence.
I will, however, continue to participate in the thread as we go forward with the information and as events progress.
I said that you were attacking which is IMO your normal MO. I said nothing about my feelings being hurt because they are not. I also said this:
Quote
As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field.That comment clearly says that I keep personal attacks out of my debate process which includes how I actually feel personally about a comment directed at me. You can try to say it however you want to but I am not randomly spouting off my observations of the last 20 months of behavior. I am a people watcher by nature and believe this I have been paying attention. You would not be doing me any favors by feeling it difficult to debate me for fear of hurting my feelings.
I seem to take your challenges to the Sting theory as aimed at myself? Hmm you are very competetive and I have seen on more than one occasion of how much you think you are right. So much so that in one TIAI thread you went as far as telling me that the no body theory had been proven, that I should walk across the room to rethink my thinking and I should let it go. LMAO now did I get the wrong impression of you based on a history of us debating? Taurus people do not get offended that easy and we do not fold/crumble that easy either.
smiley_spider
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 10, 2011, 12:33:29 AM
If there is no real body, almost all the witnesses must be in the hoax, and this is hard to believe.
But if it has to be a real body that could fool the ones who saw it, who's body could it be? It must look like MJ, at least a little. And THIS is again hard to believe.
Nothing makes sense to me about the body....well except that the body was Michael's.
No it's not. Those who allegedly saw the body were his security guards and personal assistent, EMT's/doctors/coroner (officials) and family. That's it. FBI is involved so officials involved is not unbelievable. The guards and PA most likely signed a confidentiality agreement and family is family. So why a real body?
Post by: curls on October 10, 2011, 02:20:57 AM
Post by: scorpionchik on October 10, 2011, 02:21:32 AM
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 10, 2011, 02:40:31 AM
May I just say I wish TS would come and start a new thread - I'm sick of wading through Bec and Im_convinced's squabbling. Please let it go guys - you're both doing a great job with your hoax v sting theories, but your public arguing is tiresome and downgrades your excellent ideas. Please do it in private where it won't get in the way of other members reading your relevant on-topic thoughts.
So I suppose the off topic pages of others arguing whether or not MJ is Murray was not sickening to you? Or the back and forth convo between PureLove and BeTheChange was all good but somehow bec and I having a disagreement is not allowed? IMO bec and I are both mature adults who have every right to our opinions even when we don't agree or see things the same. I was done when I posted my last comment and I am thinking bec was also. Instead of saying how sick you are having to wade through our respectable disagreement why not post things to help prove a theory whether that be a hoax court or sting court.
I do not think that what bec and I did was malicious or downgrading to each other just to be clear. I made observations and posted my opinion on how I view things IF I got that impression wrong than I got it wrong. Just to be clear also I do not have a personal problem with bec and I actually was saying in my last comment that she should keep doing her part.
Post by: bec on October 10, 2011, 02:53:57 AM
Curls, I would love to hear your theories on Hoax vs. Sting Court.
Post by: curls on October 10, 2011, 03:06:15 AM
Post by: MJonmind on October 10, 2011, 03:07:25 AM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg359840.html#msg359840
This is my response about Israel being the sting target. And Im_convincedmjalive you have not responded that I'm aware of. Your thoughts please? Thanks!
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg359843.html#msg359843
Im_convinced, if I could make a comment, please relax a little more! Your sting perspective is the hardest of the 3 positions and your info has been thought provoking, which is what it's supposed to be. respect/
Dontwalkaway
Quote
I know it's a hoax and the trial is a movie. Conrad is an actor but do you think he could be a double agent. That means he could be secretly doing things for the illuminati or freemasons and not think that anyone would find out. But maybe they did and are setting him up ????? Maybe he is completely innocent ????? I guess we will find out soon. Maybe the whole trial is just a movie to teach us about the media. Maybe some people will be set up such as the drug companies ????At least a year ago there was discussion of Murray being a Mason and part of a certain lodge. There were even pictures put up, and then there was an official letter sent from the masonic headquarters (I think), stating that CM has never been a member of any lodge except some fake lodge. If you wish I can look it up, but even the fact that fake pictures of CM with masonic vestments on shows there is seriously something odd going on with him, not to mention his empty clinic and patients that he hugs and kisses and allows their medical history to be posted online.
Grace
Quote
because there is not only a mess, but THERE IS A FIRE BURNING.Was it ever figured out what was the reason for the flood of water that almost ruined the house only days after June 25, where pics showed water even pouring from wall outlets and over the garage doors etc.? Did this fire seen in this fireplace keep on burning and cause all the ceiling water sprinklers to come on? The owners of the house were said to be wanting damages to be paid by MJ's estate. Still a mystery to me.
End of June, right, we need a fire in L.A.? It's freezingly cold when everybody has left the house except those cleaning staff forgetting about the water taps (or fire hoses), right?
So it's safe to say that there is no fire needed when everybody has moved out from a "crime scene" house and it's also safe to say that at the moment the picture was taken after everybody had moved out of a "crime scene" house, the fire did neither have to warm up the room nor a freezing patient nor a coroner's or LAPD photographer or paparazzi. Right?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1795;image)
This pic makes me laugh, “extra large box”? Are there boxes with this written on the side? Is this a joke relating to Front saying to think outside the box?
MissG
What is a “wc”? Is it a 'water closet'? I just thought of that now, since we don't use that term in North America.
Since you know art, do you have any idea about the painting on the bathroom wall? Does it relate to the box set cover?
Bec
Quote
I do not believe that MJ would seek out to help the FBI perform a sting operation against some random corrupt public entity in the county most convenient to reside in while rehearsing for his (hoax) concerts. Nor do I believe the FBI would agree to adhere to specific dates/times/pages of documents to remain in perfect accordance with numerology as directed by MJ, who in this scenario, is a simple small-potatoes player/consultant, in a much larger corruption sting operation. Nor do I believe the FBI would go to the lengths of a fake trial to catch a criminal. Nor do I believe the FBI has a vested interest in toppling the Illuminati.Great post! I agree, that sums up the FBI involvement with this hoax. When I saw a docu on TV about 911 from the official standpoint, it was the FBI shown trying to round up the supposed Arab terrorists, that confirms to me that your statement about them not being interested in toppling the Illuminati is true. They are just an arm of the USrael government, and Elvis just might be one of the few good men in the FBI helping out MJ. But this whole situation of FBI, Elvis, court, sting --is very murky and unclear to me. I'm just relaxing because Front said MJ was fully in control and I believe that's true!
I do believe MJ would (and could) spoof a trial and call it a movie. Movies are filmed in real courtrooms all the time. The only difference being that everyone generally knows when a movie is being filmed and it isn't real. This time, this small detail was omitted from public knowledge. I don't believe there is a full disclosure law in movie making. So long as you have clearance and the proper permits from local law enforcement (hence the FBI involvement, considering the hoax is not confined to a local jurisdiction it falls under federal and even more, considering the connections to things outside of the country, FBI is the agency to handle this) for any sets or scenes that simulate or reenact depictions of criminal behavior, all is perfectly in compliance with the law.
I believe when TS was talking about entrapment he meant fans and the media complaining after Bamsday, that MJ tricked and deceived them into believing he was dead. The proof that MJ did not trick and deceive anyone who cared to know the truth, is US. WE, just by being hoaxers, and uncovering the true story of what really happened (hoax), have proved, already, that MJ didn't trap anyone into believing he was dead. The truth was right in front of everyone's faces all along, they just chose not to see... what we see plainly. We prevent the ignorant from using entrapment as their defense.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 10, 2011, 04:57:58 AM
If there is no real body, almost all the witnesses must be in the hoax, and this is hard to believe.
But if it has to be a real body that could fool the ones who saw it, who's body could it be? It must look like MJ, at least a little. And THIS is again hard to believe.
Nothing makes sense to me about the body....well except that the body was Michael's.
No it's not. Those who allegedly saw the body were his security guards and personal assistent, EMT's/doctors/coroner (officials) and family. That's it. FBI is involved so officials involved is not unbelievable. The guards and PA most likely signed a confidentiality agreement and family is family. So why a real body?
But the first EMT who testified looked so very honest, you think he was just acting? He said he saw the body, didn't recognize MJ and that the patient was already dead.
Post by: sandythyme on October 10, 2011, 06:58:33 AM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 10, 2011, 07:49:15 AM
I think the gov has to be involved in this/as in sting of some sort, which makes me wonder who Murray really is...because, otherwise there'd be plenty of people, not just haters, who'd be up in arms pissed by Michael making so much money through this hoax and the state going through the memorial, cops...and all, emts at the death day...all the media that was tied up for months with coverage...(although they did get a lot of viewers from it. .. and I do think TMZ and HLN is in the know). But, anyhow, it wouldn't look good to be a financial ploy to do this and have the state paying for that memorial with cops to say the least. So, I do believe the gov is involved in some way and as it's all wrapped up in a medical way, and not with Sony...or even really AEG..I think it must be a medical/drug sting.
Of course...I am speculating from over 2 years of doing so :)
Post by: Grace on October 10, 2011, 08:16:06 AM
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
Indeed.
Pictures at an Exhibition.
Post by: applehead250609 on October 10, 2011, 08:56:18 AM
mj_bad/Because I'm talking about the THEORY, Im_convinced, not about YOU. Why you are equating your personal SELF with the THEORY I do not understand.Im_convinced: how did you take this personally?QuoteIt's too fantastical of a theory and in order to make sense of it, you have to assume too many components<---that's the sign of a theory that's starting to unravel.
And then after you took it personally, why did you take it as an open door invitation to empty both barrels into me?
Damn woman. Chill out. It's all good in the hood.
bec-Why would I think the statement you made wasn't directed at me when you clearly were responding to my comment. You clearly said that the theory I was talking about is fantastical and that shows a sign of a theory unraveling. Who else would you have been talking to or about if not for me? Yes IMO that was a personal attack. Like I said you do that alot. As a matter of fact it seemed very left field for me to respond like that huh? Ya know why because just like I said I do not comment like that when in a debate. I always keep personal attacks out of it and when I just showed you exactly how dirty I can get (which was mild in comparison to what I can do) you felt as though I was wrong, had a shit day and was coming from left field. I did not have a shit day and that wasn't from left field in my book it was something I just never had put out there in public before. I can play nice and I intend to. I wonder why is it that you and Souza always answer me with more questions instead of saying what I asked for you to explain? I answered your comment with my reasonings and not just a bunch of questions backing you into a corner.
Souza-In defense of bec really wasn't needed because I already know this. Does it make it ok for her to attack because she is always like that? How do you even know I am not like how I just showed in my last comment all the time in my regular life? If I am than it should make it ok for me to be like that now because that is how I always am. I do know how to behave and write respectfully and I will. You came with more questions instead of just explaining to me why you don't think the target could be the judge or the DA's office. I and others have shown proof that the judge and DA's office is very corrupt.@Im_convinced, saying how I operate and that I resort to personal attacks and you have my tactics all figured out... you know, pardon me, but what the fuck? Out of left field much?
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you had a seriously shit-tastic day.
Hmmm-Did that seem out of left field? Maybe because I have never resorted to those tactics before like I said. lolol/
Draw a line of separation, Im_convinced. YOU do not equate the Sting THEORY.
Sure if you put it that way but IF I didn't believe what I was saying then why would I even defend the theory? So for me it is personal because it is what I believe and it is my theory.
Souza-I am gonna answer you here in bec's post. I can not explain the things you asked. I do believe it is odd for a DA to handle evidence in court with no gloves and then put them on only during some because the stuff he was touching was medical waste. I think there is alot of odd things going on and until this is over honestly I do not think all of it will be so obvious with an answer. After I watched the EMT's testify I sway more to they are involved in the hoax. The one thing I noticed is during all the testimony of those who were in the room helping to move the body some of the people who were in the room at the same time never mentioned the other one during testimony. Alvarez never talked about Faheem and Faheem never mentioned Alvarez. Just one example.
Off topic-Yesterday my daughter and I went to the movies and watched Smurfs- lolol/
We like the cat the most. :mrgreen:
Hy Im_convincedmjalive :)!!!! I'm glad you saw SMURFS movie.I know this is off topic but I have a question ;).Did you saw THE TRASH/GARBAGE cans/bin,in NEW YORK 8-) :lol:????Another thing,I was amazed when they showed us closer,in our face the garbage bin with food,when smurfs arrived in New geek/ York!!!!
(http://www.ismellsmut.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/gargamel.jpg)
(http://assets3.indiemoviesonline.com/files/editorspics/smurfs-pic.jpg)
(http://www.accidentalsexiness.com/wp-content/gallery/smurfs-nph-ha-0510101/infphoto_1274601.jpg)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 10, 2011, 11:07:57 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 10, 2011, 11:17:11 AM
no trial today?
It's Columbus Day....government, banks, schools etc closed for the day......
Blessings
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 10, 2011, 11:38:25 AM
OMG... 45 pages! There were 6 the last time I checked in. lolol/ I may not have been here physically but I was still on the job. My Mother was in from out of State. She always liked Michael but when all the surgery/skin BS came out she didn't know what to think so we spent a lot of time on my YT channel covering the basics of Lupus, Vitiligo, the man's Faith, hospital visits, the trial, the FBI files, & interviews. There was a lot of sighing...wows...and "I miss judged the man." So you see; all was well. After a few video clips on YT it was on to the Dangerous concert via DVD! She couldn't get enough...on to my other DVD's & videos. /woohoo/ /font] /bravo/
This is so great MsTrinity :). My mother never judged MJ and she always thought that he is a great artist and wonderful person, but was never really into his music, the only song she loved was "Earth song". But when i took her to see "TII" when it just came out, she couldn't stop smiling during the movie. She fell in LOVE with him :lol:. Now she is also a believer, she says "Only Michael Jackson could fake his own death in front of the whole World".
bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1797;image)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1798;image)
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
The first thing came to my mind when i saw this picture in the bathroom was "Michael" album cover too. And i also think that this is a great clue. The fist single we heard from "Michael" was "Breaking news": TS predicted it, the melody we heard from opera "The Tale of Tsar Saltan", MJ sings about his own obituary etc. etc.
Post by: Sarahli on October 10, 2011, 12:51:53 PM
You have the most difficult theory to prove but really you're doing a great job. /bravo/
I was thinking about something in regards to the Sting court....what if the Hoax court is there to serve the purpose of demonstrating that in 2005 it was okay for people in the judicial system to accept fake evidences, false testimonies, etc? It would put the sting on another level/perspective but it is still there and both are possible, Hoax and Sting together....just a thought.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 10, 2011, 01:08:14 PM
@Im_convinced
You have the most difficult theory to prove but really you're doing a great job. /bravo/
I was thinking about something in regards to the Sting court....what if the Hoax court is there to serve the purpose of demonstrating that in 2005 it was okay for people in the judicial system to accept fake evidences, false testimonies, etc? It would put the sting on another level/perspective but it is still there and both are possible, Hoax and Sting together....just a thought.
Hi Sarahli-Thank you and yes I have thought that part of this trial is to show how corrupt the system is by showing how easy it was for MJ to plant evidence, the investigators took it at face value and it appears that professionals are not digging deeper to get to the truth. I have thought that for a while now and I have spoke on that before. I have said that this has an element of hoax court to it in the sense of the evidence is fake and planted by MJ just like the evidence was planted in his 2005 case. It is a hoax court in the sense that MJ is not dead. I do believe this court case is way bigger than a movie only. I do not believe MJ would be so selfish to hoax his death and involve the court system for the purpose of a movie. Yes he wanted to be behind the camera directing and that dream is coming true but I believe that MJ would take advantage of all available circumstances to fufill dreams and teach a valuable lesson to humanity while exposing the truth about what happened to him regarding conspiracies. /judge/
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 10, 2011, 03:26:12 PM
1
Quote
Dr. Murray: It was now very important to console Mrs. Jackson, the mother of Michael. I never met her before. But when she came into the hospital, the first thing was how do you break the new to her. I was also told that she had a heart condition. So i had asked them to be very, very careful in giving information to her. Was there, any other member present at the time? No. She was the one there. His father was either in another state, was clearly not close. And i can't tell about the other siblings.
Ok. Didn't LaToya told us this heartbreaking story how when she was driving to UCLA she called to Katherine and her assistant picked up the phone and then Katherine screamed to LaToya "He's dead!". Well Latoya said that her mother in the car on her way to the hospital. How did she know about it when she didn't even get to the hospital yet. And now CM says that Katherine got the news only when she arrived to the hospital
2
Quote
Dr.Murray: So i went back into the large room, and i asked Mrs.Jackson if she had a desire to see him. And she said NO.
So Katherine didn't see Michael's body.
3
Quote
I was speaking to the press release and the lawyer who was preparing the statement for Jermaine to give. I then after doing that, i thout it was reasonable. They don't want to change anything. I mean it was legal. Jermaine wanted to change the fact that they had asked the fans to respect their privacy. And he said, "That won't be a very good idea because the fans are fans. Maybe we should ask the media to respect our privacy."So he added - he got rid of "fans" and added "media" for privacy."
So CM is trying to say that, it was legal for Jermaine to make a statement about Michael's "death". And there is also a nice gesture from Jermaine regarding fans.
4
Quote
Det. Smith: was it kind of chronic with him?
Dr. Murray: What? Det. Smith: The dehydration and ...
Dr. Murray: He don't drink. He don't drink and eat. he says all his life his mother's had to force him to eat as a child. So he just don't like to eat foods. And the foods that he eats, when he eats, is mostly chicken and rice.
Michael doesn't drink? what about all the juices Kai was talking about and all the food that she cooked for him?
5
Quote
Det. Smith: What about cigarettes? Dr. Murray: I don't know him to smoke. you found cigarettes? Det. Smith: Empty packs. Dr. Murray: Really? Det. Smith: In the same suitcase that this literally was raunchy old - you couldn't even telll it was marijuana. It fact, we thought it was initially tar heroin. We had it analyzed, and it was just decomposed basically marijuana. The T.H.C was present. Nonetheless, there was two empty packs of cigarettes in there. I know his family's definitely against that.
Dr. Murray: WOW. But at the same time, you know, no one went into that room. He wouldn't let anyone in. But he used excessive cologne. And i never understood how he sprayed that on all the time. I mean he sat and he just keep spraying. And it could have been to dismiss any odor. I don't know.
So Michael was smoking and spraying cologne in his bedroom and keeping some old marijuana in the closet :lol: Maybe he was smoking? i don't know. But why would family give marijuana to the police? WHY?
I also remember something very interesting from the last day of court when they were playing this tape. When they asked CM for how long he was supposed to work for Michael. CM said that Michael wanted him to work for him for a long time, because Michael said that it's not going to be just these concerts, AEG will produce a couple of movies. There will be a lot of work for Michael, that's why he needed CM on his side. ;D
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 10, 2011, 03:29:22 PM
OMG... 45 pages! There were 6 the last time I checked in. lolol/ I may not have been here physically but I was still on the job. My Mother was in from out of State. She always liked Michael but when all the surgery/skin BS came out she didn't know what to think so we spent a lot of time on my YT channel covering the basics of Lupus, Vitiligo, the man's Faith, hospital visits, the trial, the FBI files, & interviews. There was a lot of sighing...wows...and "I miss judged the man." So you see; all was well. After a few video clips on YT it was on to the Dangerous concert via DVD! She couldn't get enough...on to my other DVD's & videos. /woohoo/ /font] /bravo/
This is so great MsTrinity :) . My mother never judged MJ and she always thought that he is a great artist and wonderful person, but was never really into his music, the only song she loved was "Earth song". But when i took her to see "TII" when it just came out, she couldn't stop smiling during the movie. She fell in LOVE with him :lol: . Now she is also a believer, she says "Only Michael Jackson could fake his own death in front of the whole World".bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ I did it i did it. I finally found another DVD box set, now in MJ's bathroom. At first i thought it was just a picture, but it's a Michael Jackson Public Exhibition Five Catalog Box Set.
http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57 (http://www.juliensauctions.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=57)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1797;image)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1798;image)
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
The first thing came to my mind when i saw this picture in the bathroom was "Michael" album cover too. And i also think that this is a great clue. The fist single we heard from "Michael" was "Breaking news": TS predicted it, the melody we heard from opera "The Tale of Tsar Saltan", MJ sings about his own obituary etc. etc.
Thanks Kristina bearhug We had a great time. She said "Now I see why you loved so much". She's not a beLIEver, and def. thinks Murray is guilty, but I did bring some inconsistencies to her attention... like the ambo pic, gurney pic, toxicology & Seal, among others. But we'll let that fly for now; Rome wasn't built in a day and I wanted her to get to know the man, not just the Icon.
Great catch on the DVD set in the bathroom. First thing I thought of too was the Michael Album.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 10, 2011, 03:35:02 PM
I have seen ONE picture of Michael holding a cigarette; it wasn't lit but still it always made me wonder...and LMP smokes.
Post by: bec on October 10, 2011, 04:01:41 PM
Quote
I wanted to grab this from the previous page because it caught my eye. As you said, Kristina, it's another MJ dvd set. Seems this time from April 2009 the Julien Auction. Anyway, the pic caught my eye because it seems to have been the inspiration for this pic:
(http://www.musicloversgroup.com/albums/michael-jackson-michael-album-cover.jpg)
Remember how Hold My Hand being the first single was as directed by MJ himself from handwritten notes found in his room at Carrolwood after his death?
Interesting connection anyway.
The first thing came to my mind when i saw this picture in the bathroom was "Michael" album cover too. And i also think that this is a great clue. The fist single we heard from "Michael" was "Breaking news": TS predicted it, the melody we heard from opera "The Tale of Tsar Saltan", MJ sings about his own obituary etc. etc.
Thanks Kristina bearhug We had a great time. She said "Now I see why you loved so much". She's not a beLIEver, and def. thinks Murray is guilty, but I did bring some inconsistencies to her attention... like the ambo pic, gurney pic, toxicology & Seal, among others. But we'll let that fly for now; Rome wasn't built in a day and I wanted her to get to know the man, not just the Icon.
Great catch on the DVD set in the bathroom. First thing I thought of too was the Michael Album.
So we have pictured at the death scene:
A DVD cover that looks like TII, with a graphic from the Moonwalker DVD rerelease.
and
A DVD box set cover that looks like the Michael Album.
2 MJJ products that look like post-humus releases at the death scene.
How wacky is that? I don't get it Michael... is this a tease for hoaxers? Because if they were in fact 2 post-humus items, that would be proof that things are not as they seem... not proof of hoax death per say, but proof of hoax in production element for certain.
But as it is, they are nothing. It's just odd.
Post by: paula-c on October 10, 2011, 04:13:03 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J9ukVpAlrcQ/TpIkhkPsBdI/AAAAAAAACLQ/vzEA7keOO_s/s1600/thao_nguyen_conrad_murray_trial_ll_111003_wg.jpg) (http://msnanimal.cl/emoticons/gestos_y_guinos_3d/emoticon_3d_guinos_gestos_3d_animado_msnanimal_com-60.gif)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iuz8hKRo1gc/TpIp1HhXk_I/AAAAAAAACLU/786ktN5-CSg/s1600/murray+ucla.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg)
Post by: bec on October 10, 2011, 04:15:28 PM
Great catch, Paula!
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 10, 2011, 04:24:41 PM
no trial today?
It is Columbus day Ginafelicia..
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 10, 2011, 04:29:47 PM
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 10, 2011, 04:39:59 PM
I have to say that HLN today is really analyzing the whole trial today and is REALLY proving it to be UNREAL if you just put it together. They are telling of contradictions, lies..things that are just unbelievable. To me, they are telling the public that this isn't fitting, it's just not possible. IT''s not real :)
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 10, 2011, 04:52:23 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 10, 2011, 05:08:18 PM
Dr. Thao Nguyen,.. is lying,... she declare that Murray had no notion of time, did not know when he had administered propofol or when Michael had stopped breathing. What is the reason? Murray told him that he had no clock! :lol: /judge/
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J9ukVpAlrcQ/TpIkhkPsBdI/AAAAAAAACLQ/vzEA7keOO_s/s1600/thao_nguyen_conrad_murray_trial_ll_111003_wg.jpg) (http://msnanimal.cl/emoticons/gestos_y_guinos_3d/emoticon_3d_guinos_gestos_3d_animado_msnanimal_com-60.gif)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iuz8hKRo1gc/TpIp1HhXk_I/AAAAAAAACLU/786ktN5-CSg/s1600/murray+ucla.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg)
You're awesome!!!!! /bravo/ bearhug
Post by: paula-c on October 10, 2011, 06:02:31 PM
Post my theories? And risk being slaughtered by mature adults? You've got to be kidding. I get enough of that in my 'real life'. lolol/:lol: :lol:
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 10, 2011, 06:09:42 PM
Dr. Thao Nguyen,.. is lying,... she declare that Murray had no notion of time, did not know when he had administered propofol or when Michael had stopped breathing. What is the reason? Murray told him that he had no clock! :lol: /judge/
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J9ukVpAlrcQ/TpIkhkPsBdI/AAAAAAAACLQ/vzEA7keOO_s/s1600/thao_nguyen_conrad_murray_trial_ll_111003_wg.jpg) (http://msnanimal.cl/emoticons/gestos_y_guinos_3d/emoticon_3d_guinos_gestos_3d_animado_msnanimal_com-60.gif)
Lol. good eyes paula!
also didnt CM have not one but two phones??? um and are we supposed to believe they both dont have "time function" on them...
smell the BS!
also this is off topic. but i love how one of the paramedics claims he didnt recognise MJ.... Mj is one of if not the most well recognised face in the world... so if your working on a patient, do you not look at the face even once, for responces, etc.... and if your a paramedic and you get called out to a VIP patient, which i believe there was mention of, do you not even then look at the face...
lol the comment of he didnt recognise mj is hilarious, mjs face is all over the news, on print, on net, it has been drawn, photographed, video taped, cartoonised, etc etc etc. what an absurd statement...
just sharing... i have no one in my personal life to talk about this stuff with....
L.O.V.E
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iuz8hKRo1gc/TpIp1HhXk_I/AAAAAAAACLU/786ktN5-CSg/s1600/murray+ucla.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg)
Post by: MissG on October 10, 2011, 06:21:52 PM
a grosso modo i only see what appears to be a probable 19th century inspired piece, original or reproduction. A protrait I can´t id since it´s blurred. i just see a black spot.
WC=toilet ::P
- - - - - - -
About the Woman with the "mask"...I also became a bit suspicious when I saw her. I believed it was botox that went wrong.
- - - - - -
@Paula, :lol:
Post by: PureLove on October 10, 2011, 06:25:09 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg) <---------------------- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great catch, Paula!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Murray says: "You think I killed Michael? MY ASS!"
OR
Murray says: "You took the pics of my nails getting pedicures, now take a pic of my hot ass fartin'!"
:lol:
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 10, 2011, 06:39:14 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg) <---------------------- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great catch, Paula!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Murray says: "You think I killed Michael? MY ASS!"
OR
Murray says: "You took the pics of my nails getting pedicures, now take a pic of my hot ass fartin'!"
:lol:
Oh my GOD Purelove, you're post is HILARIOUS!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:'( + lolol/ + /toldya/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 10, 2011, 06:43:26 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 10, 2011, 06:43:53 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nAteOSZ7aaY/TpIp2cXvepI/AAAAAAAACLY/ZvENO8SvRXc/s200/conrad+murray+reloj.jpg) <---------------------- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great catch, Paula!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Murray says: "You think I killed Michael? MY ASS!"
OR
Murray says: "You took the pics of my nails getting pedicures, now take a pic of my hot ass fartin'!"
:lol:
Oh my GOD Purelove, you're post is HILARIOUS!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:'( + lolol/ + /toldya/
I should thank Paula for the inspiration. :lol:
Post by: scorpionchik on October 10, 2011, 07:29:15 PM
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Now, I am confused. You are agree that there is no sting operation and Michael "died" to clean his name? That is all hoax about? Because I don't think so, I don't believe Michael would "die" and cause his fans (non believers) emotional harm to make morons to think independently and get him known.
Post by: MissG on October 10, 2011, 07:41:44 PM
Michael proved lately to be more worth dead than alive. If he did this for his dream project "Olé Michael" /bravo/ "fans" can deal with it, i hope.
There are many inconsistencies going on during the trial, contradictions, sloppy witnesses, a nice kind and benevolent judge...and the so called evidences...
Sting theory, murder theory...a bit of every theory fits, imo.
Who killed Michael? doctors, concerts, himself? what about the tabloids? they announced that michael had 6 months to live and just 6 months after, he died.
The pics of heart broken fans we have seen all over are those from Sam G, I believe?
Feels like going in circles, i am about to give up /white flag/ *singing* this suspense, it´s killing meee.....
Post by: Dontwalkaway on October 10, 2011, 08:24:04 PM
moonwalk_/ mj_dance/ michael-jackson/
Post by: paula-c on October 10, 2011, 08:39:53 PM
" Never believe what you hear and only believe half of what you see" !Micheal Jackson !
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GDrPB9Hkn70/TotVTsK1alI/AAAAAAAACaw/qnisUd-fzrQ/s1600/tumba.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wqi71XMIJ7A/TooxnapNJlI/AAAAAAAACHw/nuZRGYMHe5c/s1600/micheal+jackson.png)
Post by: BeTheChange on October 10, 2011, 08:48:06 PM
Watch the videos done by Jackieblue64 on Youtube and also SerenityxDreams and Opentolife. If you watch these you will realize there are many layers to this hoax. First, Michael had to change his image and possibly get rid of some of the "evil" around him. I am sure he had to protect himself and his family and get his finances in order. But that is not the ultimate goal. I think the final goal is to help "wake up the world" so we have a chance to "heal the world" in order to get through 2012. He is trying to wake people up so they will seek the truth about what is really going on in this world so we can fix it before it is too late. "The world is sick, like a fever", "We only have four years to get it right" "Before it is too late". We have to bring love back into the world. It is important". Think about the illuminati, secret societies, government corruption, corporate greed, wars, starvation, nuclear weapons, oil spills, pollution, chemtrails, germ warfare, lies, corrupt media, mind control. We don't even know the true history or science including what is true about Uf0's etc. We are being manipulated. I think he is working with god to help save the planet. The hoax is a genius way to "Wake People Up", To help the world. In other words "help people stop their propofol drip" and "Wake Up".
moonwalk_/ mj_dance/ michael-jackson/
Great post /bravo/
Whatever all of 'this' is...it's gonna be EPIC!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 10, 2011, 09:32:52 PM
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Now, I am confused. You are agree that there is no sting operation and Michael "died" to clean his name? That is all hoax about? Because I don't think so, I don't believe Michael would "die" and cause his fans (non believers) emotional harm to make morons to think independently and get him known.
You may be right, but I guess I just want to believe in a sting court because of what happened to Michael in 2005. I guess what it all boils down to is that I want so desperately for Sneddon to be exposed. I want the team who worked with both Jordie Chandler's family and Gavin Arvizo's family to be exposed. I want Judge Melville to be checked. I want Dr. Arnold Klein to be checked. I want these people brought to the forefront. I want the media to report the whole truth about them, instead of malicious innuendos about Michael Jackson's Not Guilty verdict. I want a sting, because without a sting there is no proof that any wrong doing took place during 1993 and 2003 Police raid on Neverland. Without a sting there is no proof that the families' of Chandler and Arvizo were liars (since the media never reported the truth). Without a sting people around the world will always have lingering suspicion about whether or not "he did it".
Imconvinced- I understand your points of a sting. I think it is vital for MJ to come back with a BAM! And what better way than to come with legal documents and stone cold evidence that he was 100% Framed and 777% Innocent.
Post by: applehead250609 on October 10, 2011, 09:36:41 PM
Anyone awake?!?!: A Jackson guest will be on Jane Valdez in a minute: The guest is bringing photos of MJ and telling what he was like as a child. I think its Toya! They showed a short clip of her talking to news crew and wearing the upside downn triangle outfit!
Yes...........how it was when he was a CHILD.....Why this is not a SURPRIZE for me,I ask,lol lolol/ :shock: :lol:?????? Yes Latoya, we are GOING BACK,BACKwards when Michael was still a baby-child :-*.He is a baby from 50 ,al the way BACK to 0 years old !!!!NICE :lol:.Moon please tell us when you have time what the show what about,ok??????LOVE you!!
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22800000/Baby-Michael-Jackson-with-Mother-Katherine-Jackson-_____-3-prince-michael-jackson-22837065-314-363.jpg)
(http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11300000/MJ-as-a-baby-michael-jackson-11349865-376-443.jpg)
Post by: Andrea on October 10, 2011, 09:42:59 PM
Remember this :?:
" Never believe what you hear and only believe half of what you see" !Micheal Jackson !
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GDrPB9Hkn70/TotVTsK1alI/AAAAAAAACaw/qnisUd-fzrQ/s1600/tumba.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wqi71XMIJ7A/TooxnapNJlI/AAAAAAAACHw/nuZRGYMHe5c/s1600/micheal+jackson.png)
Yes, I remember that graffiti outside the mausoleum and the name being misspelled makes a LOT of sense now!! LOL, it only took well over a year to make that connection.
There was also this outside the mausoleum. Hidden messages!
(http://cdn.photos.tmz.com/gallery_images/images/2010/07/0712_mj_masoleum_1_full.jpg)
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 10, 2011, 09:46:05 PM
Anyone awake?!?!: A Jackson guest will be on Jane Valdez in a minute: The guest is bringing photos of MJ and telling what he was like as a child. I think its Toya! They showed a short clip of her talking to news crew and wearing the upside downn triangle outfit!
Yes...........how it was when he was a CHILD.....Why this is not a SURPRIZE for me,I ask,lol lolol/ :shock: :lol: ?????? Yes Latoya, we are GOING BACK,BACKwards when Michael was still a baby-child :-* .He is a baby from 50 ,al the way BACK to 0 years old !!!!NICE :lol: .Moon please tell us when you have time what the show what about,ok??????LOVE you!!
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22800000/Baby-Michael-Jackson-with-Mother-Katherine-Jackson-_____-3-prince-michael-jackson-22837065-314-363.jpg)
(http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11300000/MJ-as-a-baby-michael-jackson-11349865-376-443.jpg)
I thought it would have been Toya, but it was in fact a childhood friend named Jornel. Her daughter was the little Native American Indian girl in B&W short film. Jornel remembers sitting on the swingset with Michael (they were both 11 years old) talking about healing and saving the world from poverty, war and illness. She said that Mike was picked on by other kids and was very shy. She said that he had always been loving and genuinely caring. The last thing she said is that "He deserves more than 40 years." And Jane Valdez misunderstood and thought she had meant Dr. Murray deserves more than 4 years in prison. But I understood Jornel perfectly. She meant that Michael deserves more than 40 years to entertain the world (us!). And with this hoax, he is doing just that. He is doing it in the shadows, behind the curtain. A side of him we've never seen, no pun intended.
Anyway Applehead, it was an excellent interview. Jornel was very sincere and brought tear to my eyes.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 10, 2011, 10:13:45 PM
If Mike is working with the FBI (and a lot of 'evidence' points to that)...then for all we know, some 'stings' are personal for Mike, while others are 'targets' that the FBI is more interested in. If they are working together...then I'm sure some of these 'targets' overlap along some 'dots'.
The 'targets' I could see, at this point, as being possible targets are: the judicial system (including the DA's office and judges), doctors, pharmacies, the media, 'fans', and possibly AEG (could be some evidence there...like Gongaware's testimony, the email Kenny sent to AEG about MJ's health, Murray saying he thought he'd be working for Mike but soon learned he was working for AEG, Gongaware's email captured on Murray's phone to the insurance co. refusing any tests on Mike being done anywhere but at Carolwood, etc---could make them guilty of a few things, but it could also be part of the 'plot' to make them look guilty, not sure yet).
As for the DA and the judge...based on what I've seen so far, I tend to think they are all 'in on it'...the ones in court anyway. But just because this judge and this DA is aware of the 'hoax'...it doesn't negate the possibility that they could be actively participating in a 'sting' operation as well. No matter how corrupt organizations have become---whether that's the govt, media, religion, big business, etc---there are always good people out there too. It could very well be that some of those 'good' people in the FBI spotted corruption (how could they not?) with the allegations against MJ and actually wanted to help him. Is that too far-fetched? I know if I was in a position that could help Mike while doing what I'm being paid to do (stop corruption)...I would've helped him. And just as I'm sure there's good people in the FBI...I'm sure there's some people in the DA's office and some judges...who are either also 'good' people or who would be willing to do some 'good' to counteract some 'bad' they've done :lol: (i.e. I think someone had said Pastor was investigated at some point).
Back once wrote something...way back...about having 'friends' in all corners...and the building blocks being set up. As mentioned, I WANT there to be a 'sting' and I tend to think that in order for Mike to pull off this part of the hoax...the trial...he would need the help of 'key' people in 'key' places. I think people finding out, in the end, that the FBI, the DA, and a judge were 'in on it'...and 'it' was for a movie, even one teaching a valuable lesson to the media and to 'fans'....based on people's reactions for a lot less, any message(s) Mike may have will be overshadowed by their bitching about tax dollars being spent for something that would be, at its core, just a personal vendetta for Mike.
I think it's gotta be bigger than that...much bigger. In fact, I'm starting to think that even the 'targets' I've listed may be small potatoes once the big picture is finally revealed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: skysammy on October 10, 2011, 10:48:27 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 10, 2011, 10:51:41 PM
What day does the trial end?
None of us have a clue as to the exact day it will end. But Front has a magic 8-ball...he might be able to tell us ;) :lol:
I wish we knew.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: applehead250609 on October 11, 2011, 04:37:07 AM
What day does the trial end?
Skysammy you are smart but I think you put the WRONG QUESTION!!!!Here is your answer:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The jury selection of Conrad Murray's trial began on September 8, 2011 in Los Angeles. The trial began on September 27, 2011, estimated to take four to six weeks.
Quote
V: Tell me do you know what day is it EVEy???
EVEy: November the 4-th.
V:Not anymore........ :mrgreen: 8-)
REMEMBER............. REMEMBER the 5-th of NOVEMBER!!!!!
Conrad Murray vs V for Vendetta
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdHOO6mHo0k&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
(http://thethoughtexperiment.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/003monkeys.jpg)
(http://www.musewiki.org/images/12_Monkeys1.jpg)(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7n4EZnpRM6o/TT8Ek5mhafI/AAAAAAAABtk/7td6pcepqho/s320/240111top.jpg)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_I2Vgp-Gddxs/TQoK4UMXhWI/AAAAAAAAPS8/jbU4AnXyxt0/s400/gunman2.jpg)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4MAKa5san4vLcIQDep4wRU6u-amsBS-JPy_DOk_zgA4FMl2ha)(http://hannahb93.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/v-for-vendetta-7.png?w=300&h=127)
(http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/35/MPW-17773)
LOVELY CHEEKBONES they both have,NO???? lolol/ /cook/ 8-)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIPIJfAvw0n0RVckNtPavRz4JjFhwWrFjkJmlABPF4FaJibrvM)(http://michaeljackson8x10photos.com/michaeljacksonphotos1996orangengoldflapsse1310b.jpg)
LOVE
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 10:25:34 AM
What day does the trial end?
On many articles, it was written that it was going to end on 28th of October. (TII) ;)
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 10:29:23 AM
Remember this :?:
" Never believe what you hear and only believe half of what you see" !Micheal Jackson !
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GDrPB9Hkn70/TotVTsK1alI/AAAAAAAACaw/qnisUd-fzrQ/s1600/tumba.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wqi71XMIJ7A/TooxnapNJlI/AAAAAAAACHw/nuZRGYMHe5c/s1600/micheal+jackson.png)
Yes, I remember that graffiti outside the mausoleum and the name being misspelled makes a LOT of sense now!! LOL, it only took well over a year to make that connection.
There was also this outside the mausoleum. Hidden messages!
(http://cdn.photos.tmz.com/gallery_images/images/2010/07/0712_mj_masoleum_1_full.jpg)
/bravo/
Very nice of you guys to remind us those writings at FL. MicHEAL was there too. :mrgreen:
Post by: scorpionchik on October 11, 2011, 12:18:21 PM
Michael did not have to "die" for sting operation to be realized. Sting operation does not work that way.
When there is SO, it does not get to trial, it ends sooner than that, then trial will take place to convict the wrongdoer.So, It is a hoax to reveal something, but I would not call it SO per se.
I agree that Mike doesn't HAVE to die but wouldn't you agree that his death has brought much more interest and attention to his name than ever before? People are not only seeing him for who he really is (a victim of extortion, a gentle loving soul with candid audio recording to prove it, a doting father, a genuine friend, a deeply misunderstood man). I think in 'death' Michael can accomplish whatever goals he desires more efficiently and affectively. There is no more MJ 'child molestor'. Its gradually becoming more about an extremely talented man who has given 4 generations of music to dance our asses off to, and an unfortunate death of a legend. Everytime you turn on the news, the reporter says things like 'Pop Icon Michael Jackson', 'Music Legend Michael Jackson', 'Superstar Michael Jackson'.
So I think his "death" has helped out a lot for both a hoax and a sting. Its helped bring great awareness to corrupt doctors who give their rich clients whatever they want and its helped restore some of Michael's reputation and true image.
Now, I am confused. You are agree that there is no sting operation and Michael "died" to clean his name? That is all hoax about? Because I don't think so, I don't believe Michael would "die" and cause his fans (non believers) emotional harm to make morons to think independently and get him known.
You may be right, but I guess I just want to believe in a sting court because of what happened to Michael in 2005. I guess what it all boils down to is that I want so desperately for Sneddon to be exposed. I want the team who worked with both Jordie Chandler's family and Gavin Arvizo's family to be exposed. I want Judge Melville to be checked. I want Dr. Arnold Klein to be checked. I want these people brought to the forefront. I want the media to report the whole truth about them, instead of malicious innuendos about Michael Jackson's Not Guilty verdict. I want a sting, because without a sting there is no proof that any wrong doing took place during 1993 and 2003 Police raid on Neverland. Without a sting there is no proof that the families' of Chandler and Arvizo were liars (since the media never reported the truth). Without a sting people around the world will always have lingering suspicion about whether or not "he did it".
Imconvinced- I understand your points of a sting. I think it is vital for MJ to come back with a BAM! And what better way than to come with legal documents and stone cold evidence that he was 100% Framed and 777% Innocent.
Wow.....girl you other members really think that through Murray trial, Michael is going to dispose Sneddon and Alvarez? Michael could have done that 5 years ago with straight, legal way. As I explained, the sting starts way before court. Court itself: judge and jury CAN NOT be in sting or be sting. Besides, Chandler has already announced that Michael did not do anything to him, his father is dead, and finally in 2005 MJ was found not guilty. Whoever still thinks MJ was molesting children, will always think that way, nothing will change their retarded opinion because they don't like MJ. Michael does not anticipate everyone to love him and he does not give a shit either.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 11, 2011, 12:40:25 PM
I want there to be a 'sting' as well for all the reasons outlined by Moon and even more....I want there to be several 'stings' in fact. And I also believe that in order for Mike's full message to be heard...something bigger than a hoax court needs to be taking place.
If Mike is working with the FBI (and a lot of 'evidence' points to that)...then for all we know, some 'stings' are personal for Mike, while others are 'targets' that the FBI is more interested in. If they are working together...then I'm sure some of these 'targets' overlap along some 'dots'.
The 'targets' I could see, at this point, as being possible targets are: the judicial system (including the DA's office and judges), doctors, pharmacies, the media, 'fans', and possibly AEG (could be some evidence there...like Gongaware's testimony, the email Kenny sent to AEG about MJ's health, Murray saying he thought he'd be working for Mike but soon learned he was working for AEG, Gongaware's email captured on Murray's phone to the insurance co. refusing any tests on Mike being done anywhere but at Carolwood, etc---could make them guilty of a few things, but it could also be part of the 'plot' to make them look guilty, not sure yet).
As for the DA and the judge...based on what I've seen so far, I tend to think they are all 'in on it'...the ones in court anyway. But just because this judge and this DA is aware of the 'hoax'...it doesn't negate the possibility that they could be actively participating in a 'sting' operation as well. No matter how corrupt organizations have become---whether that's the govt, media, religion, big business, etc---there are always good people out there too. It could very well be that some of those 'good' people in the FBI spotted corruption (how could they not?) with the allegations against MJ and actually wanted to help him. Is that too far-fetched? I know if I was in a position that could help Mike while doing what I'm being paid to do (stop corruption)...I would've helped him. And just as I'm sure there's good people in the FBI...I'm sure there's some people in the DA's office and some judges...who are either also 'good' people or who would be willing to do some 'good' to counteract some 'bad' they've done :lol: (i.e. I think someone had said Pastor was investigated at some point).
Back once wrote something...way back...about having 'friends' in all corners...and the building blocks being set up. As mentioned, I WANT there to be a 'sting' and I tend to think that in order for Mike to pull off this part of the hoax...the trial...he would need the help of 'key' people in 'key' places. I think people finding out, in the end, that the FBI, the DA, and a judge were 'in on it'...and 'it' was for a movie, even one teaching a valuable lesson to the media and to 'fans'....based on people's reactions for a lot less, any message(s) Mike may have will be overshadowed by their bitching about tax dollars being spent for something that would be, at its core, just a personal vendetta for Mike.
I think it's gotta be bigger than that...much bigger. In fact, I'm starting to think that even the 'targets' I've listed may be small potatoes once the big picture is finally revealed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I agree; there are soooooo many layers of meaning just like the lyrics of Michael's songs, both personal & professional. FBI is involved; It will all come out in the end. albino/
Post by: MJonmind on October 11, 2011, 01:42:15 PM
Supposed autopsy of MJ by Christopher Rogers, deputee Medical examiner, Chief of Forensics Medicine. Totally not MJ.
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 11, 2011, 01:51:25 PM
Post by: reveron1958 on October 11, 2011, 01:52:19 PM
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 11, 2011, 01:57:50 PM
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 11, 2011, 02:00:23 PM
I would like to see the feet
You are right :shock: again no feet
Post by: Grace on October 11, 2011, 02:00:37 PM
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 11, 2011, 02:01:37 PM
Why they leave the tube in his mouth for the photo.
well, very likely they leave it there during certain procedures and remove on later stage of autopsy, on autopsy videos I watched bodies had lots of hospital things still in their bodies.
Plus he's less recognisable this way.
yup, adding feet would be nice :roll:
Post by: Vietnow on October 11, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 11, 2011, 02:05:43 PM
1/ where is the curly hair? Looks to me like his hair stops at the base of his neck.
2/ In the other photo when he's on the gurney did it show that he had that much crap on his arm?
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 02:21:11 PM
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
Post by: mjaliveomg on October 11, 2011, 02:25:46 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 11, 2011, 02:28:44 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 02:29:07 PM
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
No belly button AND an extra rib? Did I hear that right about the rib? Hmmm...starting to sound a bit like an Adam and Eve type story :lol:
IF a real autopsy was conducted on some 'body'...a clue might have come with Rogers saying it was unusual for a 50 year old male to show no signs of fatty build-up on the heart walls (maybe the body wasn't a 50 year old male).
Also interesting how Jane said that this coroner reminds her of the one in "Six Feet Under"...that "he looks like a caricature of a coroner". He is a bit odd...maybe that's just his 'personality'...but he 'fits' a perfect coroner-type if one was needed in a movie.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 02:33:19 PM
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 11, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
your probably right Aidan, but are they remove it before family come in to vieuw the deseased one?
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 02:39:42 PM
Date indeed wrong (mistake #777) and the picture is tampered with. I do think that it's his body (and with that I mean ALIVE) but they seem to have streched the lower part of his upper body to make him look skinnier, because his upper body looks way too long and I think that is why they got rid of the belly button, because it didn't look round anymore, but more oval. I think they altered the neck area and the head a little too, because his shoulders should be broader in my opinion and the neck looks too smooth. Lots of different colors too, face and knees look black, thighs are purple, belly looks yellowish. And again crappy quality. What cameras do they use there?
Anyway, body looks fine, not skeletal, just athletic (apart from the strange streched part). And Mike, isn't that blacked out part a little exaggerated? :lol:
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 02:41:22 PM
Post by: melody on October 11, 2011, 02:46:30 PM
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
It looked like 6/25/2009 to me. Notice the "6" looks like the "9" just upside down, same font.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/peoples206_closeup.png)
And about the bellybutton, is it possible that he just has a flat, T-shaped bellybutton?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/bellybuttonshapes.png)
Do we have a picture of Michael to verify what belly button shape he has? There is a shadow on the photograph where the bellybutton should be. What I can't tell is whether a belly button is completely absent or the picture is just bad quality.
Assuming the forensic pathologist is not in on the hoax, he would have said something about there being no bellybutton, or the "body" being a dummy. It can't be a dummy though because you can't submit samples to different specialists to undergo a radiology exam, dental exam, lung exam, et cetera, if it weren't actual body parts. Unless they did not really undergo all those exams and he's lying....? Is that allowed, even for sting-operations purposes?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 11, 2011, 02:46:55 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 02:50:17 PM
Dr. Klein was once again mentioned....and in more detail. According to Smith "other entities were looking into Klein and his dealings". He then said that the DEA was investigating both Klein and Mickey's Finn Pharmacy (not sure if I got that name right). Chernoff then almost jumped out of his seat and asked Smith, "Is Dr. Klein linked to Mickey's Finn Pharmacy"...and the answer was 'Yes'. Hmmm...a doctor connected to a pharmacy?
On a side note...whenever Klein's name is mentioned, I remember this post by Back:
Re: TMZ Live -- Dr. Arnie Klein ... Take Two
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calm thy nerves.......
Arnie IS on the de-Klein
He's desperate and scared sh*tless
Because he knows it's just a matter of tImE.......
Tables are meant to be turned!
And lying backstabbers shall reap what they sow.
Keep WATCHIN'.......
Also interesting was that once again Tohme Tohme was mentioned and the DA was very quick to raise an objection...it seems no questions are being allowed in regards to him.
Not sure if any of these names could tie in with a 'sting' but they were also mentioned:
- Dr. David Adams (an anesthesiologist that Murray supposedly claims gave MJ propofol but Adams denies it)
- Patrick Mahong (sp) - security
- Isaac Mohammad (sp) - security
- Eric Cleaveland (sp) - (I think he was security too)
None of this will probably be talked about on the 'news'....because it seems everytime there's 'hints' at possible 'stings' going on, the testimony is completely overshadowed with 'drama'. Today's 'soundbites' will most likely be about the autopsy photo.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 11, 2011, 02:51:07 PM
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJsupposedautopsy.jpg)
Supposed autopsy of MJ by Christopher Rogers, deputee Medical examiner, Chief of Forensics Medicine. Totally not MJ.
does mjsupposedautopsy.jpg, mean they are not sure :shock:
and what about that fingernails it looks like they wanted to hide the nails on both sides, otherwise they had to photoshop they nails.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 02:51:49 PM
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
It looked like 6/25/2009 to me. Notice the "6" looks like the "9" just upside down, same font.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/peoples206_closeup.png)
And about the bellybutton, is it possible that he just has a flat, T-shaped bellybutton?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/bellybuttonshapes.png)
Do we have a picture of Michael to verify what belly button shape he has? There is a shadow on the photograph where the bellybutton should be. What I can't tell is whether a belly button is completely absent or the picture is just bad quality.
Assuming the forensic pathologist is not in on the hoax, he would have said something about there being no bellybutton, or the "body" being a dummy. It can't be a dummy though because you can't submit samples to different specialists to undergo a radiology exam, dental exam, lung exam, et cetera, if it weren't actual body parts. Unless they did not really undergo all those exams and he's lying....? Is that allowed, even for sting-operations purposes?
According to TMZ, it does say "8-25-09":
Quote from: TMZ
The date on tiles beside his body reads August 25th, 2009 -- but the autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date was wrong ... it should have read June 25th.
Also, Michael has a very noticable belly button. He has an outtie:
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnb_0ucLg8z6tuE98A6X6DNV-d8xgTyOTdE4roA5M1s29g57Y1vw)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPdaS3w3HfBri8ClxVEYUOGstJkVbPXpGN2-fufGDEqjPLu8pIRA)
(http://images.doctissimo.fr/1/musique/michael-jackson-kop/photo/hd/8577413857/7202322877/michael-jackson-kop-mj-al-big.jpg)
(click to make the last one bigger)
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 11, 2011, 02:52:37 PM
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Hmm... pale/
Those are the first things I noticed, too.
It looked like 6/25/2009 to me. Notice the "6" looks like the "9" just upside down, same font.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/peoples206_closeup.png)
And about the bellybutton, is it possible that he just has a flat, T-shaped bellybutton?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/bellybuttonshapes.png)
Do we have a picture of Michael to verify what belly button shape he has? There is a shadow on the photograph where the bellybutton should be. What I can't tell is whether a belly button is completely absent or the picture is just bad quality.
Assuming the forensic pathologist is not in on the hoax, he would have said something about there being no bellybutton, or the "body" being a dummy. It can't be a dummy though because you can't submit samples to different specialists to undergo a radiology exam, dental exam, lung exam, et cetera, if it weren't actual body parts. Unless they did not really undergo all those exams and he's lying....? Is that allowed, even for sting-operations purposes?
MJ has an "outie"... pics are black & white in the Vanity Fair special addition after his death.
Post by: melody on October 11, 2011, 02:59:36 PM
I still say 6-25-2009. TMZ could be wrong.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/peoples206datezoomedup.png)
...or the reflection of light is making me see a "6" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/Aymii/angel.gif)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 11, 2011, 02:59:36 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 03:05:42 PM
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 03:12:45 PM
Anyway, body looks fine, not skeletal, just athletic (apart from the strange streched part). And Mike, isn't that blacked out part a little exaggerated? :lol:
We were told to 'think big' :lol: :lol: :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 11, 2011, 03:13:25 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
Same here Souza
Post by: paula-c on October 11, 2011, 03:13:50 PM
what's the red spot on his chest ?
yes, i ask myself the same thing that is supposed to be the wound?
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 03:14:55 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
Michael has a pretty big outtie though, that doesn't look like his.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 11, 2011, 03:18:01 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
TMZ's picture has a higher resolution. I do see a belly button there I think.
Looking at the photo more, I have a question maybe someone can answer. If you look from the tape by his nose and up, the face is a different color, any reason why that would be?
Post by: mjssoulmate on October 11, 2011, 03:38:47 PM
NO belly button, no feet, wrong date (Aug 25, 2009) - now are you scared yet?
Right, no belly bottom, and his head is now turned the other way, or did they prop him up on the side? By the way, MJ had an outie.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 11, 2011, 03:41:28 PM
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/mjautopsy1.jpg">
I made larger pics....
This doesn't correlate with Jermaine's story when he saw his naked body back in 2005...he described the blotchy skin and where he said he had it and this picture doesn't show what Jermaine described...
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 11, 2011, 04:00:33 PM
I think its a real pic, but it's not Michael Jackson...where is his hair? WTF??
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 11, 2011, 04:49:01 PM
I was so scared of this moment. This day in court when they were supposed to show the autopsy pictures, so luckily i missed the trial today. But now i checked TMZ and there it is on the front page. And i didn't cry and i didn't even felt sad or scared, i was actually laughing at the stupid mistake with the date. I mean WTF?? I may sound cold to some people, i'm actually surprised myself, because usually when it comes to dead people i become very emotional. I can't even look at the corps, it makes me feel sick, very sick. Now nothing, i feel perfectly fine. So by relying on my own gut feeling i say that's not a dead person. It doesn't give that creepy feeling.
Regarding the belly button. Do you guys remember when we were discussing the autopsy picture, when and if it will be shown in the court, we'll able to recognize Michael by his belly button. And look what he did? He hid it from us! To play some more games with us! >:( I can see the belly button, but it's too light and i can't tell whether it's Michael's or not.
He also hid his finger tips, as we all know his nails were dark (i believe that's the skin under the nails is black) and we can't see them as well.
I honestly don't know whether it's Michael posing dead or it's another corpse or if it's a doll. But the only thing i'm sure of is that Michael can't quit playing games with us!!! /overreacting/
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 05:03:35 PM
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 05:09:38 PM
Michael´s chest as it shows made me think of how the skin reacts when wearing a bullet proof vest and being shot pale/
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhYqF8KhOhZLbqJoIWwY3Ma5xzNchsjha8528g5irbJCygq6nh)(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Nd5n0hbGQrk/TIJ-lm6_ZPI/AAAAAAAACf0/rWZenq9jlXc/s1600/TheBattle7N.jpg)
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 05:12:19 PM
I am losing focus here. bangbang
Post by: LottaLove777 on October 11, 2011, 05:27:23 PM
i believe in you, really.
Thanks for helping us ... I love you..
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 05:36:19 PM
Read this article, pls
Propofol-induced sleep: efficacy and safety in patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia.
SourceDepartment of Neurology, Daping Hospital, Research Institute of Surgery, Third Military Medical University, Changjiang Branch Road # 10, Chongqing 400042, People's Republic of China.
AbstractInsomnia, defined as difficulty in falling asleep and/or staying asleep, short sleep duration, or poor quality sleep, is a common sleep disorder affecting 30-40% of adult population. We have conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study to test if anesthesia is therapeutically beneficial in patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia. We have assessed the efficacy and safety of propofol-induced sleep in these patients. This study comprised of 103 patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia (including 59 non-pregnant, non-lactating women; 28-60 years) and the participants were randomized to receive either physiological saline (placebo) (n = 39) or 3.0 g/l propofol (n = 64) in a 2-h continuous intravenous infusion for five consecutive nights. The Leeds Sleep Evaluation Questionnaire was used for the subjective assessment of sleep, and polysomnography was used for the objective measurement of sleep architecture and patterns. The assessments were done prior to and at the end of the 5-day treatment and 6 months after treatment period. The adverse effects of the treatment were also recorded. A 2-h continuous intravenous infusion of 3.0 g/l propofol for five consecutive nights improved the subjective and objective assessments of sleep in 64 patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia. This improvement occurred immediately after the therapy and persisted for 6 months. No serious adverse events were noticed during the period of drug administration or 6 months after the treatment. Propofol therapy is an efficacious and safe choice for restoring normal sleep in patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia.
Which theory would fit now?
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on October 11, 2011, 05:54:03 PM
Also, i am not sure if the AR mentioned the extra rib and the "lack" of belly button?. What about his neck and throath? didn´t they cut the trachea?You're right! I do remember something about them cutting his trachea.....so wheres the cut in the picture?? Good catch buddy! /bravo/
I am losing focus here. bangbang
Post by: Sarahli on October 11, 2011, 06:18:14 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 06:21:41 PM
A good point is that Mr Rogers, the forensic examiner, said that Michael was "healthier than the average person of his age". So it contradicts once again all the "reports" saying that Michael was ill, etc.
The question is, do we believe this guy is in on the hoax or did he do an autopsy to someone who really looked like Michael? If he is in on it, it is so normal for him to say Michael was healthy but if he is not, then the person who died was healthy which is weird imo.
Post by: Grace on October 11, 2011, 06:22:19 PM
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
This is speaking of murder (attempt) and of making believe at first sight.
Murderers are not stupid. They wanna see and feel they got what they wanted.
Applies also to suiciders. And to travelers in space and time.
Blessings and a bearhug to all.
Post by: Sarahli on October 11, 2011, 06:32:49 PM
A good point is that Mr Rogers, the forensic examiner, said that Michael was "healthier than the average person of his age". So it contradicts once again all the "reports" saying that Michael was ill, etc.
The question is, do we believe this guy is in on the hoax or did he do an autopsy to someone who really looked like Michael? If he is in on it, it is so normal for him to say Michael was healthy but if he is not, then the person who died was healthy which is weird imo.
As far as I can see there was no autopsy done and this report is fake, they just invented everything to fit in the script. I don't know to what degree this person can be in the know but I don't believe that he is taking this picture seriously, especially since he is supposed to have been present during the autopsy and hence seen the body. So it makes sense to say that he is in on it. Autopsy reports can be doctored with money as well.
+ he said he conducted thousands of autopsies, can someone with such a background be fooled so easily? I think not.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 06:43:57 PM
Post by: katooooooo on October 11, 2011, 06:53:27 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the face looks like Michael's?A little :) but something doesn't fit in his face and i can't put my finger on it...
Post by: skysammy on October 11, 2011, 07:01:45 PM
I do see what youre saying with the eyes. They look a little sunken in and Michael had buldgy eyelids.
But I mean I don't know, when you die your body does things and makes you look different.
I'm sad today. I want it so badly for it to be fake...But I am getting overwhelmed with everything
and all the people in the trial.. :-\
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 11, 2011, 07:02:02 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the face looks like Michael's?
Its at an awkward angle but I see the resemblance. The neck looks swollen and the eyebrows looks different than MJ last seen alive. And the white tape conceals the nose and upper lip.
Post by: Snoopy71 on October 11, 2011, 07:06:05 PM
Post by: reveron1958 on October 11, 2011, 07:15:10 PM
He had slightly prominent bottom ribs which I noticed before on vids from the the Bad tour. The one where he wore the black pants and shiny grey/silver top.
I'm not actually convinced he is dead though.... :?
Post by: reveron1958 on October 11, 2011, 07:20:30 PM
Again: why is Michael perfectly shaved and even has lipstick on?
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
Didn't the autopsy mention he had colour tattood on his lips or am I making that up?
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 11, 2011, 07:23:25 PM
@Snoopy, my thought exactly. A picture is one second captured forever. This picture can then be altered, enhanced, stretched, shortened. A dummy could've been made as in Leave Me Alone short film.
I know its hard for some of us to look at this pic, but the more I see the pic, the less I see MJ.
Only time will tell, until then all we have is each other and the dots that have been connected.
The inconsistencies are right there in our faces, don't slam the door and hide now.
We've come this far, I'm going all the way. I hope you are all with me on that!
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 11, 2011, 07:25:20 PM
yea tattoo lips and eyebrows.Again: why is Michael perfectly shaved and even has lipstick on?
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
Didn't the autopsy mention he had colour tattood on his lips or am I making that up?
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 07:36:27 PM
And on the off chance that it is a real dead body in the pic...I don't want to sound rude or say something that would be considered disrespectful. But I have a hard time believing that that body was 136 lbs. I am 5'7" and 120 lbs. and if a pic was taken of me laying naked like that....I would be a LOT 'bigger' in the legs, arms, and torso. Yes, the 'body' was supposedly a 5'9" man...but look at his arms near his shoulders...look at his wrists...his legs. This looks like the body of a man suffering from some illness...anorexia or something.
It most definitely does NOT look like a 'body' that was working out with Lou Ferrigno...who Lou said was in 'tip-top' shape. It's often been said that Mike would lose between 5-10 lbs a show. The 'body' in this pic is not the body of a man that would have survived 3 shows, let alone 10. And it most definitely is not the 'body' that anyone would've referred to as the 'machine'.
If it is Mike laying there, then the pic has been greatly photoshopped...arms, legs, torso, etc have been 'slimmed down' to make him appear much thinner than he really is. Again, even if Mike was 136 lbs on June 25, 2009, I still would have a hard time believing that the pic is him unaltered (based on the size of the body in pic, I'd guess it would weigh around 105-110 lbs). If it is a real body of a real dead person, then knowing that we're sitting here 'dissecting' it would really suck.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: skysammy on October 11, 2011, 07:40:13 PM
Yes, true.
Don't worry I will always have a little amount of hope in me.
It's just sometimes I feel stupid seeing all the people in the courtroom and think..
"How can they all be in on this?"
And then hearing little details like Paris saying to Dr. Murray "Why couldn't you save my dad?"
Just hurts and confuses me..
@BeTheChange
Karen Faye did said Michael was 108 when he died
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 07:49:52 PM
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/autopsy_pic_streched.jpg)
I think they sqeezed it horizontally to make him look skinnier (well I think more narrow defines it better, because he sure doesn't look skeletal). By de-sqeezing it, his body looks way more in proportion. I don't think mine is 100% accurate, but the shoulders are broader, the neck shorter and the body looks more in proportion, so I think it's at least a lot closer to accuracy than the original. And if this is really his body anno 2009, I must say he looks pretty damn fine for a anorexic junkie...
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
I dont think any fam members have made a tweet about Autopsy pic. Wonder why they keep quiet, ecspecially Toya?
@Snoopy, my thought exactly. A picture is one second captured forever. This picture can then be altered, enhanced, stretched, shortened. A dummy could've been made as in Leave Me Alone short film.
I know its hard for some of us to look at this pic, but the more I see the pic, the less I see MJ.
Only time will tell, until then all we have is each other and the dots that have been connected.
The inconsistencies are right there in our faces, don't slam the door and hide now.
We've come this far, I'm going all the way. I hope you are all with me on that!
I'm going all the way too. I'm not even a believer. I'm a knower. That face looks nothing like Michael to me. The only thing that looks like Michael in that face is the chin and that's it. And those legs are too short to be Michael's. The man has long and beautiful legs and look at the ones in the picture. His body looks longer than his legs but Michael's body proportion is not like that. His legs are longer than his body. That's not him in the picture imo.
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 07:59:41 PM
Calling all photoshop experts to give me a hand :cry: pls
The AR mentioned scars i don´t see in "that" body.
Not even seeing that morbid pic i can admit that Michael is dead :? time to talk to a medical pro geek/ ?
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 08:01:54 PM
After observing the pic...i don´t see Michael. His skull, bone structure...
Calling all photoshop experts to give me a hand :cry: pls
The AR mentioned scars i don´t see in "that" body.
Not even seeing that morbid pic i can admit that Michael is dead :? time to talk to a medical pro geek/ ?
Did you see the pic I posted?
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 08:09:50 PM
i don´t know what to think anymore.
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 08:13:31 PM
I just flipped the picture after I cropped it. Still this looks nothing like Michael to me. The eyebrows are too different.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 08:14:51 PM
Okay, so I did a little de-sqeezing and I think this is more accurate:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/autopsy_pic_streched.jpg)
I think they sqeezed it horizontally to make him look skinnier (well I think more narrow defines it better, because he sure doesn't look skeletal). By de-sqeezing it, his body looks way more in proportion. I don't think mine is 100% accurate, but the shoulders are broader, the neck shorter and the body looks more in proportion, so I think it's at least a lot closer to accuracy than the original. And if this is really his body anno 2009, I must say he looks pretty damn fine for a anorexic junkie...
Wow, that does look a lot normal. I really think they stretched it, now.
& I agree Purelove.. doesn't look much like michael. maybe a double or a dummy, but the eyes are different. In this pic, the eyes look smaller, and the eyebrows arent shaped like his have been for the past 25 years or so. Plus, how come parts of his face have a darker yellowish color?
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
A good point is that Mr Rogers, the forensic examiner, said that Michael was "healthier than the average person of his age". So it contradicts once again all the "reports" saying that Michael was ill, etc.
Mr. Rogers had a " Neighborhood of Make-Believe " LOL WTF??
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 08:16:20 PM
Post by: Andrea on October 11, 2011, 08:18:12 PM
If Michael was actually dead, this image would not have been shown and certainly not on tv/internet for the entire world to see. I've read some of the comments on TMZ about this photo and some people are just fckd in the head. Showing this photo tells me it's a hoax (duh), anything else would just be too disrespectful to Michael's memory and his family. You just don't do that to someone who is actually dead.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 08:20:30 PM
WHY is this autopsy picture even available to the public? I don't know any other celebrities that have had their autopsy pictures exploited like this. I've already seen this picture on the regular channel 4 news. It's very disrespectful, yes I know he's alive, but they believe he's dead & they're just showing these pictures like it's nothing. suspicious//
Post by: PureLove on October 11, 2011, 08:24:07 PM
Can I just ask this question ?
WHY is this autopsy picture even available to the public?
It's because the pic is a fake and Michael is alive. And da troot will prevail soon! :mrgreen:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 11, 2011, 08:26:27 PM
"His torso was light brown, splashed with areas of white, spreading across his upper chest, one patch of WHITE covers his ribs and stomach, another runs down his side and blotches cover one shoulder and upper arm...he looks like a WHITE man splashed with coffee"...
I don't see any of that in these photos...
<b>MR. Rogers ( Neighborhood of MAKE-BELIEVE)</b>
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 08:27:03 PM
The pic did not change my opinion about Mike being alive one bit...but even knowing that he's alive, seeing a 'fake' dead MJ is not something that makes me feel like partying lol.
So...TS/Front, please feel free to drop in at any time (hopefully sooner rather than later)...and let us at least know if all these 'fake' pics and 'fake' recordings are a test for 'us' or a test for 'them'?
I'm sticking like glue.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 08:27:24 PM
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/421613299.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1318382924&Signature=Yc6AwjrT6ltFRY5B8GcPn4L7JSI%3D)
I just flipped the picture after I cropped it. Still this looks nothing like Michael to me. The eyebrows are too different.
Still looks like him to me.
Post by: MissG on October 11, 2011, 08:27:50 PM
the news are full of this kind of shocking images. CNN showed a video of a man being executed not so long ago, and well...all the awful pics we get to see on the news every day from wars and murders.
looks like Michael wants the world to believe he is dead, may be even us hoaxers to believe it and let him RIP. IDK, i am tired and confused. :-\
nothing makes sense. wrong numbers, body not showing what is written in the AR, contradicting statements, sloppy jobs...
Not my day
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 11, 2011, 08:28:07 PM
You may be right, but I guess I just want to believe in a sting court because of what happened to Michael in 2005. I guess what it all boils down to is that I want so desperately for Sneddon to be exposed. I want the team who worked with both Jordie Chandler's family and Gavin Arvizo's family to be exposed. I want Judge Melville to be checked. I want Dr. Arnold Klein to be checked. I want these people brought to the forefront. I want the media to report the whole truth about them, instead of malicious innuendos about Michael Jackson's Not Guilty verdict. I want a sting, because without a sting there is no proof that any wrong doing took place during 1993 and 2003 Police raid on Neverland. Without a sting there is no proof that the families' of Chandler and Arvizo were liars (since the media never reported the truth). Without a sting people around the world will always have lingering suspicion about whether or not "he did it".@TheMoonIsDancing-Cool I am glad you understand the points and it wasn't said for nothing. ;)
Imconvinced- I understand your points of a sting. I think it is vital for MJ to come back with a BAM! And what better way than to come with legal documents and stone cold evidence that he was 100% Framed and 777% Innocent.
I want there to be a 'sting' as well for all the reasons outlined by Moon and even more....I want there to be several 'stings' in fact. And I also believe that in order for Mike's full message to be heard...something bigger than a hoax court needs to be taking place.@BeTheChange-Good observations and it was 2good2btrue who posted the info on Pastor. Here are some links to info that has existed on the net about Sneddon and other things.
If Mike is working with the FBI (and a lot of 'evidence' points to that)...then for all we know, some 'stings' are personal for Mike, while others are 'targets' that the FBI is more interested in. If they are working together...then I'm sure some of these 'targets' overlap along some 'dots'.
The 'targets' I could see, at this point, as being possible targets are: the judicial system (including the DA's office and judges), doctors, pharmacies, the media, 'fans', and possibly AEG (could be some evidence there...like Gongaware's testimony, the email Kenny sent to AEG about MJ's health, Murray saying he thought he'd be working for Mike but soon learned he was working for AEG, Gongaware's email captured on Murray's phone to the insurance co. refusing any tests on Mike being done anywhere but at Carolwood, etc---could make them guilty of a few things, but it could also be part of the 'plot' to make them look guilty, not sure yet).
As for the DA and the judge...based on what I've seen so far, I tend to think they are all 'in on it'...the ones in court anyway. But just because this judge and this DA is aware of the 'hoax'...it doesn't negate the possibility that they could be actively participating in a 'sting' operation as well. No matter how corrupt organizations have become---whether that's the govt, media, religion, big business, etc---there are always good people out there too. It could very well be that some of those 'good' people in the FBI spotted corruption (how could they not?) with the allegations against MJ and actually wanted to help him. Is that too far-fetched? I know if I was in a position that could help Mike while doing what I'm being paid to do (stop corruption)...I would've helped him. And just as I'm sure there's good people in the FBI...I'm sure there's some people in the DA's office and some judges...who are either also 'good' people or who would be willing to do some 'good' to counteract some 'bad' they've done :lol: (i.e. I think someone had said Pastor was investigated at some point).
Back once wrote something...way back...about having 'friends' in all corners...and the building blocks being set up. As mentioned, I WANT there to be a 'sting' and I tend to think that in order for Mike to pull off this part of the hoax...the trial...he would need the help of 'key' people in 'key' places. I think people finding out, in the end, that the FBI, the DA, and a judge were 'in on it'...and 'it' was for a movie, even one teaching a valuable lesson to the media and to 'fans'....based on people's reactions for a lot less, any message(s) Mike may have will be overshadowed by their bitching about tax dollars being spent for something that would be, at its core, just a personal vendetta for Mike.
I think it's gotta be bigger than that...much bigger. In fact, I'm starting to think that even the 'targets' I've listed may be small potatoes once the big picture is finally revealed.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Tuesday, May 10, 2011
Los Angeles County worker vouches for Michael's innocence...A MUST READ
http://reflectionsonthedance.blogspot.com/2011/05/los-angeles-county-worker-vouches-for.html
Lawsuit against DA Tom Sneddon
August trial date in suit against Tom Sneddon DA’s office
By Quintin Cushner/Senior Staff Writer
http://mjjrealrealm.wordpress.com/2006/01/10/lawsuit-against-da-tom-sneddon/
THE CORRUPT HISTORY of District Attorney TOM SNEDDON ?
Posted By: APHRODITE
Date: Thursday, 3-Feb-2005 15:24:18
WHAT'S GOING ON IN SANTA BARBARA?
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=64536
HIStory vs EVANstory: The 1993 allegations Part 1
April 20, 2011
http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/history-vs-evanstory-the-1993-allegations-part-1/
The Michael Jackson Case
http://mjjr.net/content/mjcase/main.html
http://mjjr.net/content/mjcase/index2.html
Events prior to 2005 trial
http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/events-prior-to-the-trial-2/
@Souza-Now that you desqueezed the pic the body looks like an asian body like the EMT's reported. I also think that the sting is on the LA court system because the documents I have read regarding MJ's pedo investigations have LA offices on them.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnyaAZy9_wE[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by MichaelJacksongenius on Nov 9, 2009
Proof that the prosecutor Tom Sneddon FRAMED Michael and that Michael was INNOCENT!
Songs I've used in the video:
- Give in to Me, Stranger in Moscow both written, composed and sang by Michael Jackson.
No copyrights infringment intended!
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
Can I just ask this question ?
WHY is this autopsy picture even available to the public?
It's because the pic is a fake and Michael is alive. And da troot will prevail soon! :mrgreen:
:lol: That's the only reason I can find, too. ;)
Post by: AnaMarcia on October 11, 2011, 08:29:35 PM
For me He is Michael, but perhaps younger.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 08:31:38 PM
This doesn't look like a dead black man, even so any black man....he looks WHITE. Jermaine said in his book:
"His torso was light brown, splashed with areas of white, spreading across his upper chest, one patch of WHITE covers his ribs and stomach, another runs down his side and blotches cover one shoulder and upper arm...he looks like a WHITE man splashed with coffee"...
I don't see any of that in these photos...
<b>MR. Rogers ( Neighborhood of MAKE-BELIEVE)</b>
The TMZ picture is higher in resolution, and you can see it better on that one.
Post by: Adi on October 11, 2011, 08:34:47 PM
Didn’t the autopsy report say he had an appendix scar as well? I can’t see it here….unless the black box is covering it.
His neck looks plastic!
Now call me crazy (all my non-believer friends do!!! Hahaha ) but to me it looks like there is an image of a face photoshopped along his chest and down his abdomen. Almost like the image on the Shroud of Turin…but not exactly the same face. Here are the two pics to compare:
The Shroud of Turin parallel is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
"It is a linen cloth bearing the image of a man who appears to have suffered physical trauma in a manner consistent with crucifixion. It is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The image on the shroud is commonly associated with Jesus Christ, his crucifixion and burial. The origins of the shroud and its image are the subject of intense debate among scientists, theologians, historians and researchers."
There is a lot of debate as to whether the Shroud is authentic or if it is a fake…just like there is about this supposed autopsy picture of Michael!!!!!!!!
Post by: paula-c on October 11, 2011, 08:45:11 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 08:46:32 PM
We've often noted on the board how TPTB use 'distractions' to further their agendas...and maybe that's what Mike is doing as well. If true, then perhaps those specific days of testimony...where there were 'distractions'...should be looked at closer.
Again, thanks for the links...very interesting reading material.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. MJFan7....that sig pic with him biting that lip...is more along the lines of 'distraction' that I prefer 8-)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 11, 2011, 08:46:50 PM
http://www.eonline.com/news/michael_jacksons_body_resurfaces_plus/268885?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-topstories&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_topstories&dlvrit=48939
his wasn't the defense's day.
Testimony in the involuntary manslaughter case against Conrad Murray resumed Tuesday after a long holiday weekend, the last words the jury having heard (other than the judge's instructions to not text or tweet about the case) coming from a recording of Murray's lengthy interview with a detective shortly after Michael Jackson died.
And they heard more from Murray-on-tape today, as well, as the doctor told police how he broke the news of Jackson's passing to his family. Emotional, sure, but why did Michael's mother Katherine and sister Rebbie—who've heard plenty of sensitive subjects addressed on the stand—take off after the first round of questioning this morning?
RECAP: Live from the Michael Jackson manslaughter trial, week three
Dead Again: Michael's mom and sis were tipped off by Deputy District Attorney David Walgren that he would be showing more postmortem photos of Jackson before the lunch break. Presumably, they felt no need to see that again, so they left. And sure enough, as they did on day one, the prosecution showed another gruesome photo of Jackson's body postmortem and pre-autopsy. This time, however, the body was bare, his genitals blacked out for appropriateness' sake. We're pretty sure the prosecution doesn't have to worry about convincing a jury that Jackson died, but we know that those with the beyond-a-reasonable-doubt burden of proof (i.e., prosecutors) prefer to hammer home the sad stuff as much as possible.
It's Not Logical: Dr. Christopher Rodgers, the forensic pathologist who performed Jackson's autopsy and ruled his death a homicide, dealt the biggest blow yet to Murray's defense: Rodgers testified that he found the defense's claim that Jackson ingested the fatal dose of propofol on his own, while Murray left the room for a few moments, "unreasonable." What he does find reasonable, he said, was that Murray had "imperfect control over the dose and gave him too much."
"Now call me crazy (all my non-believer friends do!!! Hahaha ) but to me it looks like there is an image of a face photoshopped along his chest and down his abdomen. Almost like the image on the Shroud of Turin…but not exactly the same face."
I CAN SEE IT...IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME FACE.... WTF??
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 11, 2011, 08:47:18 PM
I wrote this on the other thread too..
Post by: looking4truth on October 11, 2011, 08:56:58 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on October 11, 2011, 09:01:09 PM
Assuming that Michael be dead, it is normal for this to happen, that the photo of a dead person be exposed in this way in the media without thinking of the family and children?, a thing might happen if the photo is "filtered", but will not allow a judge allow to happen WTF??
True! I wish Michael suddenly appear in the court session and scare everyone to death. Morons!
Post by: paula-c on October 11, 2011, 09:04:18 PM
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1826;image)
Do not be hairstyle as someone who enter walk the UCLA this June 25,.. i am crazy :roll: :mrgreen:
Post by: Sarah31 on October 11, 2011, 09:04:58 PM
And the wound in the middle of his chest is something that should be analyzed
Intra-aortic balloon pump.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 11, 2011, 09:06:28 PM
Assuming that Michael be dead, it is normal for this to happen, that the photo of a dead person be exposed in this way in the media without thinking of the family and children?, a thing might happen if the photo is "filtered", but will not allow a judge allow to happen WTF??
That's the same thing I said. I don't think this picture wouldn't be floating around like this if he were alive, the family would've sued or something.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 11, 2011, 09:06:58 PM
Assuming that Michael be dead, it is normal for this to happen, that the photo of a dead person be exposed in this way in the media without thinking of the family and children?, a thing might happen if the photo is "filtered", but will not allow a judge allow to happen WTF??
True! I wish Michael suddenly appear in the court session and scare everyone to death. Morons!
The family must know about it, I am sure Michael must have prepared them. This is what will happen.. Halloween is very close lolol/ this would be so priceless to see everyone drool..
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 09:07:24 PM
The problem is that Sneddon was only a puppet for the puppeteers. A greedy one, because I think he got paid lots of $$$ for this. There are people behind the curtain who pay corrupt officials, or blackmail them to do this kind of things. You can lock up the dirty cops, but that doesn't solve the problem as long as there is an agenda higher up. It's like bringing water to the sea.
And Asian body? I don't see that. I really think it could very well be MJ himself with a little Adobe magic.
Post by: looking4truth on October 11, 2011, 09:23:15 PM
And the wound in the middle of his chest is something that should be analyzed
Intra-aortic balloon pump.
Oh thanks. Well that was quick. :lol:
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 11, 2011, 09:33:25 PM
@Imconvinced: I never said there is no corruption in LA. I said that this sting is not against the DA or the judge as you implied. It doesn't make sense. I happen to have read one or two things about the 1993 accusations and the 2005 trial when I did research for 2 months about it for the blog that is still being highly ignored.I was only taking a guess at why the sting court would take place in LA vs SB. I do know you researched your ass off; that is why I posted your blog as well. I agree about the puppet statement. In the pic before you changed it I do think the face resembles MJ but after you scrunched it down and the body looks more in proportion I do see it as an asian body. I've seen plenty naked when I lived in Hawaii. ;)
The problem is that Sneddon was only a puppet for the puppeteers. A greedy one, because I think he got paid lots of $$$ for this. There are people behind the curtain who pay corrupt officials, or blackmail them to do this kind of things. You can lock up the dirty cops, but that doesn't solve the problem as long as there is an agenda higher up. It's like bringing water to the sea.
And Asian body? I don't see that. I really think it could very well be MJ himself with a little Adobe magic.
Post by: Andrea on October 11, 2011, 09:40:11 PM
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 09:44:00 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 11, 2011, 09:48:01 PM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Quote
pariisjaxn (http://yfrog.com/user/pariisjaxn/profile) 26 mins 13 secs ago Twitter (http://twitter.com/) Full Moon Tonight!! Me And My Pack Of Unicorns Will Go Galloping Tonight. yfrog.com/h3my0lbj (http://yfrog.com/h3my0lbj)
lolol/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 09:51:27 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 11, 2011, 09:52:03 PM
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 11, 2011, 09:53:29 PM
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
It was me who commented on him working out with Lou. I didn't say he did heavy weights...I said he didn't look like someone who had worked out as much as Lou said. No matter what the workout (speaking as someone who does work out)...even if it's just cardio and stretches or yoga...not to mention targeted training with a trainer...there will be definition and tone to the muscles, even in a slim body.
There is no definition or tone in the muscles of the 'body' in that pic. That's all I meant.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 11, 2011, 09:59:12 PM
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on October 11, 2011, 10:08:20 PM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
Post by: wishingstar on October 11, 2011, 10:09:31 PM
I absolutely believe if this isn't a hoax, the judge made a huge error in allowing this photo to be seen. He could have told the cameras to stay focused on the lawyers or witness at the time....out of respect for the Jackson family and Mr. Jackson himself. There is no reason, other than the hoax, for this photo to have been shown. There must be something more to it...the date, the time, reflections, sheet positions, subliminal pictures within it. Maybe we can finally determine height...how long is the gurney?
Anyways........my eyes are weary at this point. I am going to go look at the moon....that always helps.
My seatbelt is so tight I am losing circulation...TS, if you have thoughts here, now would be a good time to share them. Or are you still playing possum?
Blessings
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 10:30:31 PM
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
Okay, this is a little awkward, but I played with Michael's body a little... in Photoshop that is. And I put some more volume to the arms and I put the black box a little higher, because that is also an illusion to make his body look off. They still did something with the legs as well, parts are covered with the sheets (weird, since when are the in sheets on an autopsy table? I guess that would get too messy). I also pointed out where the nipples are in my opinion, since there seems to be a 'fake nipple' on his right that is too high. Either for the illusion or a dark spot, but not a nipple I think. And I pointed out where his belly button should be. I also made the legs a little longer without stretching the rest of the picture. Keep in mind that I spent only 5 minutes and I'm not a Photoshop expert.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/awkward.jpg)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 11, 2011, 10:46:47 PM
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 11, 2011, 10:53:14 PM
I see what you are trying to point out but the problem is IF this was MJ posing in a hoax pic his body would not look the same as in the swimming trunk pic. What year is that pic from? People's body shapes change over time. He was 50 at the time of death. I explained in chat the sheet is most likely the one the body was transported in when on the helicopter.I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
Okay, this is a little awkward, but I played with Michael's body a little... in Photoshop that is. And I put ome more volume to the arms and I put the black box a little higher, because that is also an illusion to make his body look off. They still did something with the legs as well, parts are covered with the sheets (weird, since when are the in sheets on an autopsy table? I guess that would get too messy). I also pointed out where the nipples are in my opinion, since there seems to be a 'fake nipple' on his right that is too high. Either for the illusion or a dark spot, but not a nipple I think. And I pointed out where his belly button should be. I also made the legs a little longer without stretching the rest of the picture. Keep in mind that I spent only 5 minutes and I'm not a Photoshop expert.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/awkward.jpg)
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 11, 2011, 11:12:33 PM
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real...
Im_convincedmjalive please can I send you my respect respect/
The very possible hoax we deal with is also very professional one {lol if there is such thing!},
so almost everything here is real and no need to call everything "fake" and look for hidden
pink toys on a deathbed. The body can be real, I believe it is real. Everything is in place. Is it dead
body or body pretending to be dead? We'll know some day, but maybe we won't. We can
only wait. We really don't know reasons behind all this and how far in realism they went,
so no need to scream "Shut up" to anyone who gives you realistic explanations of why
the leg looks like that or why this body looks so darn young.. ....erm.. any explanations? :lol:
I really like this body, I do, it's far from being "skeletal" anorexic {if you ever saw anorexic body
you'll never forget} and it's so young and lean. Certain people from MJ staff/family sure
weren't unbiased enough when describing his final days. After 2005 trial no one saw MJ "meaty" again I suppose :oops: sorry I use this word :oops: can't think of better one at the moment.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 11, 2011, 11:21:15 PM
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 12, 2011, 12:12:37 AM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 12, 2011, 12:20:03 AM
If that is Michael and I agree body structure does not change, why I see hands and legs shorter in comparison to the next photo, and torso a little narrow.
Like I said, my picture is probably not accurate. They could have squeezed and altered any part. It's just an example of how they could have edited the picture, because it's clearly squeezed at least.
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 12:55:52 AM
Bodyguards are in on it.
Paramedics are in on it.
Staff at UCLA ER are in on it.
The FBI is cooperating.
The coroner is in on it.
Tell me again why it is unrealistic that MJ himself did indeed take an ambulance ride with Murray, get ushered through a private wing at UCLA, play dead and go for a helicopter ride (FBI), get dumped on the floor of the coroners van before jumping out under cover of parking garages and head towels.
Why is that considered "too risky" when every single one of those entities we know have KEY people positioned that are in on the hoax. What's the difference? MJ's been hiding from the paps and giving stalker fans the slip for years. 6/25/09 would be no different for him then most days when it comes to be seen/not be seen. It is always MJ's choice whether his whereabouts are known or not.
I ask because that autopsy pic matches Stretcher Gif MJ's description: lipstick and hair pulled back, and it is dated 8/25/09, van video day. Either the whole thing is real (MJ alive n well for ambu ride,/stretcher gif/helicopter ride/van video)... or this is my own personal brand of hoax.
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 12:57:21 AM
Post by: Grace on October 12, 2011, 01:02:57 AM
yea tattoo lips and eyebrows.Again: why is Michael perfectly shaved and even has lipstick on?
Dead people don't wear colour in their lips.
Didn't the autopsy mention he had colour tattood on his lips or am I making that up?
I have never heard that anybody had FULL lips tattooed - a line yes, full never.
Taking the pain and the fine sensitivity of the body part into consideration - that would be torture.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 12, 2011, 01:36:44 AM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 01:48:32 AM
@scorpionchick, since when do we believe anything Jermaine says?
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 12, 2011, 02:32:43 AM
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1826;image)
Do not be hairstyle as someone who enter walk the UCLA this June 25,.. i am crazy :roll: :mrgreen:
thanks for the video ... was watching the circled red part but then ... who is stepping out of the ambulance with the guy with the coat about to cover his head? just made me go afraid/ for a moment or am I seeing things which are not there? afraid/ :shock:
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 12, 2011, 02:35:32 AM
why his right hand and arm is covered under the sheet?
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 02:42:08 AM
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 02:45:10 AM
Post by: Bianca28 on October 12, 2011, 02:47:56 AM
Yep – the picture looks like it’s been elongated to make him appear much more skinny than he really is. The whole picture is out of proportion.Glad i'm not the only one who sees the same image...nope you're not crazy OMG!
Didn’t the autopsy report say he had an appendix scar as well? I can’t see it here….unless the black box is covering it.
His neck looks plastic!
Now call me crazy (all my non-believer friends do!!! Hahaha ) but to me it looks like there is an image of a face photoshopped along his chest and down his abdomen. Almost like the image on the Shroud of Turin…but not exactly the same face. Here are the two pics to compare:
The Shroud of Turin parallel is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin)
"It is a linen cloth bearing the image of a man who appears to have suffered physical trauma in a manner consistent with crucifixion. It is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The image on the shroud is commonly associated with Jesus Christ, his crucifixion and burial. The origins of the shroud and its image are the subject of intense debate among scientists, theologians, historians and researchers."
There is a lot of debate as to whether the Shroud is authentic or if it is a fake…just like there is about this supposed autopsy picture of Michael!!!!!!!!
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 12, 2011, 02:51:44 AM
@Ijustcantstoplovingu, MJ is on the stretcher in that GIF.
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
yes that was what I originally believed, and just now when I was looking at the whole picture, the body language of who ever is stepping out of the back doors of the ambulance to be covered by that guys jacket, just made me afraid/ for a moment, I know you carnt see very much but the shape and the body languguage, and why would he have needed to be screened by the jacket? :shock: if other than mj, the jacket didnt seem to be screening the stretcher patient, could it be that that was the distraction you look here but actually Im over here, I could be very wrong on this but just thought I would point it out.
With the love always
Post by: MJonmind on October 12, 2011, 04:17:40 AM
Andrea, wow--DEtAiLS! It's so much fun when you guys start snapping together a series of connections! /bravo/
I sure hope the doubters can get back on track after this, so we can all handle and face the next challenges sure to come!
The whole story-line reminds me of MJ's pepsi commercial video of escaping the media and crazed fans, "The Chase", going from helicopter (taking that leap of daring faith to actually fake his death), to zip-line (escaping somehow from UCLA and the crowds), to his getaway car (coroner's van), hiding clues/keys in museum/memorial/tributes and art (as well as photo-shop), skiis (flying like Peter Pan who never dies), to parachute (appearing in the sky and BAM!) and ending up on the stage to sing, "And the whole world has to answer right now, cause I'll tell you once again 'I'm bad' (the Pepsi way)".
He is Bad, but in a good way!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8bpjUb9QlU[/youtube]
Post by: skysammy on October 12, 2011, 08:03:33 AM
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on October 12, 2011, 09:34:48 AM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
Good point. It could be that Jermaine just said that in order for us to get suspicious n start digging or maybe he really did mean to say "hospital." Or maybe Michael really did go to the airport since a part of it was closed that day. We have to explore all possibilities. My theory was that Michael did all of this in advance and went to the airport on the morning of the 25th n left LA. After seeing the pictures of him supposedly on the gurney and autopsy table as well as him on the stretcher going into UCLA I'm starting to agree with Bec. It does make sense that he rode in the ambulance to UCLA, posed for some pictures, went in the helicopter and hopped out the coroner's van then went to Encino n camped out with his kids (it would explain the 4 sleeping bags). Considering all the pictures/videos we have of this happening it seems to be the more likely scenario as the only proof we have that he went to the airport is something Jermaine said on a radio show and questionable proof that a part of LAX was shut down which could have been for numerous reasons. If Michael did go to UCLA, coroners ect., it would make everything (including testimonies) more realistic and eliminate the need for a double/dummy/corpse.
p.s. if I were planning something like this I would want to be there to supervise as well as watch all my hard work pay off so I could do a lil happy dance. penguin/
Post by: ImperfectAngel on October 12, 2011, 09:37:30 AM
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20587.0;attach=1826;image)
Do not be hairstyle as someone who enter walk the UCLA this June 25,.. i am crazy :roll: :mrgreen:
thanks for the video ... was watching the circled red part but then ... who is stepping out of the ambulance with the guy with the coat about to cover his head? just made me go afraid/ for a moment or am I seeing things which are not there? afraid/ :shock:
So is that Michael?? It looks like his head OMG. :shock:?
Post by: ImperfectAngel on October 12, 2011, 09:40:34 AM
Post by: Sarahli on October 12, 2011, 09:42:33 AM
Well the nanny Roselyn Muhammed was mentioned again (lol) and she's been interviewed by the police apparently...now wasn't that name in the search warrant for Murray's clinic? Supposedly one of the aliases used by Michael. I am wondering if this nanny exists for real, she should be in the witness list. :lol: In the search warrant there was also the name of Kai Chase and Faheem Muhammed as aliases used (and others too if i recall got to search for this document)... they have not been asked about that, only Paul Farance and Omar Arnold were discussed. Normal??? Sorry I have a headache so maybe that I am not making any sense. :-\
Post by: Mish1981 on October 12, 2011, 10:01:59 AM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
Good point. It could be that Jermaine just said that in order for us to get suspicious n start digging or maybe he really did mean to say "hospital." Or maybe Michael really did go to the airport since a part of it was closed that day. We have to explore all possibilities. My theory was that Michael did all of this in advance and went to the airport on the morning of the 25th n left LA. After seeing the pictures of him supposedly on the gurney and autopsy table as well as him on the stretcher going into UCLA I'm starting to agree with Bec. It does make sense that he rode in the ambulance to UCLA, posed for some pictures, went in the helicopter and hopped out the coroner's van then went to Encino n camped out with his kids (it would explain the 4 sleeping bags). Considering all the pictures/videos we have of this happening it seems to be the more likely scenario as the only proof we have that he went to the airport is something Jermaine said on a radio show and questionable proof that a part of LAX was shut down which could have been for numerous reasons. If Michael did go to UCLA, coroners ect., it would make everything (including testimonies) more realistic and eliminate the need for a double/dummy/corpse.
p.s. if I were planning something like this I would want to be there to supervise as well as watch all my hard work pay off so I could do a lil happy dance. penguin/
It does make more sense that Michael would want to be there to see everything thru. I agree if I were to do something like this I would want to watch everything unfold not just hear about it.
Just throwing my thoughts out there to see if they make sense (even to me):
We know that the ambulance photo is fake (I wonder how many hours Michael scrutinized that photo to make sure it was "right"). We know that the gurney photo is photoshopped (again that makes me wonder)
With the autopsy photo it would only make since that Michael would want that photo to be as realistic as possible while placing doubt for those that are willing to study it.
I also don't think that these photos were taken on the same day. For example, the eyebrows that someone mentioned were off: let's say he waited a few weeks and didn't have them trimmed (or how ever he has them done) and had the photo taken. Just is just my personal thought but while talking about the photo what if not everything in that photo is make up? Obviously I think the marking on his chest is make up of some sort but more about the discoloration. I'm not talking about the yellow tint, but everything else. Point being, vitiligo is something that Michael has always been fighting others about on why his skin has changed thru the years. The majority of people have believed him (why on earth would someone want to lie about it in the first place) but even after his "death" there were those who were surprised to find out that it was true that he had it. What better way then to help prove it then in a photo? For a long time we've only seen bits and pieces in photos, but nothing like this.
Post by: paula-c on October 12, 2011, 10:03:45 AM
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5363/40408580.png)
I am mistaken or on the photo of the forensic there are more gauze bandages in the hospital, if the body was already in the forensic why leave all this?
photos and video recordings of the body, or any part of the body of a deceased person taken by or for the forensic doctor at the scene of death or in the course of a post-mortem examination or an autopsy is not available for inspection at any time in accordance with article 129 of the code of Civil procedure in California. Any person who wishes to inspect or obtain copies of the photographs will be required to obtain a court order as referred to in article 129. "
http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/coroner/agencychp?path=%2Fv7%2FMedical%20Examiner-Coroner%20%28DEP%29%2FReports
[quoteViewing autopsy photographs is NOT the right of the media or press under the law. If viewing autopsy pictures IN COURT, generally T.V. cameras are either turned toward the judge or the shot is blacked out.
][/quote]
http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/coroner/agencychp?path=%2Fv7%2FMedical%20Examiner-Coroner%20%28DEP%29%2FReports
Post by: RK on October 12, 2011, 10:18:13 AM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 12, 2011, 10:32:07 AM
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 12, 2011, 10:37:16 AM
I think it kinda resembles what we already have seen from his body. I still think they did some more than just stretching though. Probably why AGAIN the crappy quality. It also doesn't look like a frail old man, but rather like an athletic 30-year-old. And for the one that said that he doesn't look like someone that works out a lot, Lou said he didn't do heavy weights. It was stretching (lol) and cardio. My brother is much skinnier than Michael; he is 6'4" and weighs around 140-145 lbs. THAT is skinny, but still he's far from unhealthy or weak. He's actually very strong and full of energy.
Your right about the workouts with Lou but the way the pic you did shrinks the body down it makes it look stalky and bigger than a frail old man. I don't see a resemblance to MJ's body from any pics I have seen. I think he would look much taller and lean. It is a real dead body IMO but not as described by EMT's according to news articles. I still have no verification they said any of that. I was being sarcastic when I wrote the frail old man that the EMT's said.
Okay, this is a little awkward, but I played with Michael's body a little... in Photoshop that is. And I put some more volume to the arms and I put the black box a little higher, because that is also an illusion to make his body look off. They still did something with the legs as well, parts are covered with the sheets (weird, since when are the in sheets on an autopsy table? I guess that would get too messy). I also pointed out where the nipples are in my opinion, since there seems to be a 'fake nipple' on his right that is too high. Either for the illusion or a dark spot, but not a nipple I think. And I pointed out where his belly button should be. I also made the legs a little longer without stretching the rest of the picture. Keep in mind that I spent only 5 minutes and I'm not a Photoshop expert.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/../../images/awkward.jpg)
Thanks for setting this up in better proportion Souza. This looks like MJ to me. Here are my thoughts on this pic:
#1. I think the date thing was MADE to draw attention. YES the 6 is actually a 9 turned upside down... I see 3 9's = 999 in the photo
#2. With the 6 looking like an 8 we have MJ telling us he posed for this shot on 8-25-2009. Two mos AFTER 'DEATH'. This is a Set up & photo shopped = ALIVE
#3. The "truth" has been "stretched" and here we are literally naval gazing! lolol/ The patchiness is the Vitiligo; it is progressive so of course it's not going to match Jermaine's earlier description. This is PRE-Autopsy as there is no Y cut & the date of supposed autopsy is wrong; it should be the 26th right? ...and so is his color. Shouldn't he be a greyish cast with blue lips by now if really dead? Although I don't get the blood in the center of the chest Did the EMT's inject the heart to get it started? Somebody was sitting up on that gurney...but was it MJ or one of his Decoys???
MJ is messing with us... Monster lyrics.
TS are you going to comment? Some of us are a bit :-\ Even if proven fake this picture has gotten to a lot of us.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 12, 2011, 10:50:04 AM
Post by: ImperfectAngel on October 12, 2011, 11:58:34 AM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 12, 2011, 01:57:24 PM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Wow!! Nice find.
and another thing, this hoax ecspecially the autopsy pic, made me realize how much I love Michael and want a second chance so bad from him. I know none of us deserve it and it is not owed to us. But wouldn't be nice to have our king back?!
I agree.. I can't even imagine how i would react if that picture and his whole death was real. pale/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 12, 2011, 02:32:43 PM
In my opinion i think that the person who is dead on the gurney is a look a like of Michael the body looks so young like a 21 year old or such, Also i heard on the trial that Michaels heart was so fit for someone at 50 and it was so unusual.And they have never experianced something like that before So maybe Michael has used a person who has had a illness and didnt have long to live, What do you guys think ? ;))
And how do you plan a 21 year old look-a-like to die on the perfect hoax date which has been planned many years ago? Did he know that when he jumped out of that rocket in 1996?
Post by: MissG on October 12, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
His legs are short :?
I am asking myself how could they take that kind of picture perspective wise. It´s like it has been taken from a balcony overlooking the operating room thorough a glass window, like happens during anatomy lessons :?
I have a hard time believing that body is Michael (yeah, I listened today many times that I am in denial :roll:) but really...the legs are short, his bone structure and skull do not "match" my perspective and scars mentioned in the AR and the court seem to be missing.
Someone wants to slap me, please? :cry:
I don´t see Michael in that pic :?
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 12, 2011, 03:20:24 PM
just having one additional question to the picture (I was not able to find whether it was already asked)
why his right hand and arm is covered under the sheet?
Yes Forst i found it odd too, i have sort of posted that a few pages back about the fingernails.
LOVE and bearhug
Post by: MissG on October 12, 2011, 03:30:51 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 12, 2011, 03:54:42 PM
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 12, 2011, 04:50:04 PM
@Ijustcantstoplovingu, MJ is on the stretcher in that GIF.
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
yes that was what I originally believed, and just now when I was looking at the whole picture, the body language of who ever is stepping out of the back doors of the ambulance to be covered by that guys jacket, just made me afraid/ for a moment, I know you carnt see very much but the shape and the body languguage, and why would he have needed to be screened by the jacket? :shock: if other than mj, the jacket didnt seem to be screening the stretcher patient, could it be that that was the distraction you look here but actually Im over here, I could be very wrong on this but just thought I would point it out.
With the love always
I also have the feeling that the men with the jacket wants to distract, but only for some one else , i mean the paramedic! to the far right he has big glasses on and he sort of bend to not being reconised, everytime i see that tape he attracks my attention afraid/ i dunno its just my feeling.
LOVE and bearhug
Post by: Sarahli on October 12, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
Think about Back's post, he has not said that Klein was on the decline for nothing IMO.
I remember I had posted a while back in regards to that subject, but this part of a theory of vision post should help understand:
Quote
Throughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
...
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
What if some doctors were approached by Michael's enemies and tried to kill him by poisoning?
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 12, 2011, 05:30:35 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 12, 2011, 07:02:37 PM
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
Purelove, I had a hard time finding a picture of MJ standing up straight, hands down to waist, legs together. The man has so much swag its a flaw lol because he just doesn't stand straight. He always has a lean or a tilt in every pic lol. Thats why I love him :-*
But anyway, another thing is that the chin, right deltoid, left armpit, and both knees look 'stained'. Perhaps with Iodine as mentioned by others here and in the chat room. Michael, in fact, has many brown splotches on his skin on his entire body. I believe it has been said before that from the waste down, he is mostly brown colored (his natural beautiful skin color). When I first saw this autopsy photo, I was sad because my emotion overwhelmed me. But as I studied this particular picture I began to notice all of the inaccuracies of his skin color.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TSEKXXIvI[/youtube]
(http://mitajain.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael_vitiligo_11.jpg)
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 12, 2011, 07:07:30 PM
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
His legs are short :?
I am asking myself how could they take that kind of picture perspective wise. It´s like it has been taken from a balcony overlooking the operating room thorough a glass window, like happens during anatomy lessons :?
I have a hard time believing that body is Michael (yeah, I listened today many times that I am in denial :roll: ) but really...the legs are short, his bone structure and skull do not "match" my perspective and scars mentioned in the AR and the court seem to be missing.
Someone wants to slap me, please? :cry:
I don´t see Michael in that pic :?
Miss G I do not see Michael either. Why did they take a pic with a tape and the tube hanging down? you can't see much. I see a quasi anorexic person who does not weigh 136 lbs.. as I posted in the other thread.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 12, 2011, 07:16:55 PM
A story from TMZ on Aug 25, 2009...
MJ Alive? Someone Wants You To Think So
8/25/2009 7:19 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
This video is probably as real as the existence of unicorns -- but the clip, claiming to show Michael Jackson walking out of the back of a Coroner's van after his "death," is making the rounds on the Internet today.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINr7vUNirw[/youtube]
According to the LiveLeak post: "I checked the license plate number and it looks like the King of Pop is jumping out of the same van, his dead body has been in. I got the original video tape from a trustworthy source. I know him for years. And I am sure it´s real and Michael is alive."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-alive-video/)
There is also a mention of unicorns, which Paris has tweeted about recently.
Has anyone here actually been able to get a good shot of the license plate numbers for comparison??
If it is Michael who gets out from the VAN, what about Jermain slip up that "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"?
That's another thing that puzzles me , if this was not true, why did they go through all this length to make a video to show us Michael jumping out of the coroner van. That makes me wonder if people have anything better to do during the day. I think this video did get leaked, they had no choice to retrack it back so they came out with this scenario.. I think it is Michael coming out, like you said scorpionchik "Michael was not with us way before, he arrived at the airport"? Why would Jermaine say something like that if it weren't true. Sometimes you can says a word and you did not mean this word, but airport and hospital are two different buildings.
Post by: PureLove on October 12, 2011, 07:24:15 PM
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
Purelove, I had a hard time finding a picture of MJ standing up straight, hands down to waist, legs together. The man has so much swag its a flaw lol because he just doesn't stand straight. He always has a lean or a tilt in every pic lol. Thats why I love him :-*
But anyway, another thing is that the chin, right deltoid, left armpit, and both knees look 'stained'. Perhaps with Iodine as mentioned by others here and in the chat room. Michael, in fact, has many brown splotches on his skin on his entire body. I believe it has been said before that from the waste down, he is mostly brown colored (his natural beautiful skin color). When I first saw this autopsy photo, I was sad because my emotion overwhelmed me. But as I studied this particular picture I began to notice all of the inaccuracies of his skin color.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TSEKXXIvI[/youtube]
(http://mitajain.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael_vitiligo_11.jpg)
I was just at a dermatologist on Monday to ask for Depigmentation for myself. I'm a vitiligo patient since I was 4. Depigmentation is a treatment where all your pigments are destroyed so your skin loses its color and you become pale white. The treatment is a process and it takes a while to lose all pigments on your entire body. They give you some pills and a fluid solution and you apply it on the dark spots. And after you have Depigmentation, your skin color can not go back to its own color. It stays pale white always. You can not gain any pigments afterwards. That's how the doctor explained it to me. So, I think Michael was having the treatment when he shot TDCAU video, the picture you posted BUT as the treatment ends, he could have NO dark spots left (his own skin color). I wrote it in the chat that using bleeching creams is another made up story because once your skin get depigmented, you don't need to use any bleeching creams to bleech your already bleeched skin.
So, I do not think Michael has a dark spot on his body no more. I'm not so sure about the spider bite area. That can be because of the bite but there shouldn't be any dark spots left after the Depigmentation treatment.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 12, 2011, 08:15:07 PM
ok, I made this for you guys!
Ready..........................
..........................
..............................
LMAO!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!! lolol/ lolol/ This autopsy pic of "Mr. Kadaver Anonymous" is so terribly stretched out and still does no justice to the pic on the left. And the pic on the left, Mike's posture isn't even completely straight. I think I got the size of the heads pretty close, and I lined the picture to where the shoulders and hips meet.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/kailuabooboo/MJ-TII-michael-jackson-13522350-492-600.jpg)
Nice pic comparison Moon ;) My opinion remains the same. I see no Michael in that autopsy pic. The face is completely different. Especially the shape of the eyebrows. I wrote the legs are too short and your picture also shows that they are. Michael has long beautiful legs but this guys has short legs. Even IF this is Michael posed for the autopsy picture, they changed everything with photoshop. They played a lot with the face and the body, especially the legs. This looks like a totally different person to me.
Purelove, I had a hard time finding a picture of MJ standing up straight, hands down to waist, legs together. The man has so much swag its a flaw lol because he just doesn't stand straight. He always has a lean or a tilt in every pic lol. Thats why I love him :-*
But anyway, another thing is that the chin, right deltoid, left armpit, and both knees look 'stained'. Perhaps with Iodine as mentioned by others here and in the chat room. Michael, in fact, has many brown splotches on his skin on his entire body. I believe it has been said before that from the waste down, he is mostly brown colored (his natural beautiful skin color). When I first saw this autopsy photo, I was sad because my emotion overwhelmed me. But as I studied this particular picture I began to notice all of the inaccuracies of his skin color.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TSEKXXIvI[/youtube]
(http://mitajain.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael_vitiligo_11.jpg)
I was just at a dermatologist on Monday to ask for Depigmentation for myself. I'm a vitiligo patient since I was 4. Depigmentation is a treatment where all your pigments are destroyed so your skin loses its color and you become pale white. The treatment is a process and it takes a while to lose all pigments on your entire body. They give you some pills and a fluid solution and you apply it on the dark spots. And after you have Depigmentation, your skin color can not go back to its own color. It stays pale white always. You can not gain any pigments afterwards. That's how the doctor explained it to me. So, I think Michael was having the treatment when he shot TDCAU video, the picture you posted BUT as the treatment ends, he could have NO dark spots left (his own skin color). I wrote it in the chat that using bleeching creams is another made up story because once your skin get depigmented, you don't need to use any bleeching creams to bleech your already bleeched skin.
So, I do not think Michael has a dark spot on his body no more. I'm not so sure about the spider bite area. That can be because of the bite but there shouldn't be any dark spots left after the Depigmentation treatment.
Thank you Purelove for the info. You are Turkish, correct?
And you are currently going through depigmentation process as I read. Am I correct?
I wish you the best of luck and much love! I love you more than you'll ever know, sweetheart! You have been one of my favorite posters since I joined MJDH! :-*
I believe you when you say that Michael's natural brown pigment would be completely gone if he were receiving depigmentation treatments and that raises even more doubt in my mind about the autopsy pic. I wonder why are there stains on his body? If they are prepping a certain area to cut, why in the places with stains? And why is this picture and the 'gurney pic' so stretched out?
It is not MJ's body, neither one. I do not believe so.
Thank you Purelove for your story :)
Post by: paula-c on October 12, 2011, 08:49:59 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 12, 2011, 09:42:09 PM
Is all that a real judgment?, with so many mistakes, lies and false proofs ... as I said in another post not to leave that the emotions to block them up
Love is an emotion and I will never contain it or 'block it up'.
But when I look at this picture I look through investigative eyes. Not hoax eyes.
I see what I see. Paula-c what do you see?
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 12, 2011, 09:47:21 PM
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#Process
Quote
Process
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 09:49:49 PM
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 12, 2011, 09:52:44 PM
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
LMAO @ Gold Pants Fans :-[ . :lol:
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 12, 2011, 10:09:34 PM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg324064.html#msg324064
Quote from: ~Souza~If there was a real corpse, than assisted suicide is the only option. No other death can be planned like that.
Souza,
I do agree that the assisted suicide is a very real plausable theory but not the only option to have a real body used on a planned death date. The fact that cadavers are stored for up to 6 months allows for the planned death date. Also the fact that refrigeration slows down decomp and the cadavers can be used for up to 10 hours at a time makes it possible to have enough time to stage the scene in the room before decomp set in.
They had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
They had enough time to find a suitable corpse to match almost his known illness of vitiligo. They couldn't make everything perfect because some absent things from the body were needed to provide suspicion it wasn't MJ.
The advancement of what can be done on a cadaver allows them to add what they needed [drugs] to inside of the body. They had enough time to make the body feel warm to make it seem as though it recently died. The heated room slowed down the process of the body cooling. It stayed the temp of the room providing more evidence it was fresh.
This cadaver was made up to look like a hospice patient by the room atmosphere of what was found and the paramedics statements. That also helped to fuel the already suspicion MJ was ill. It also provided credibility to the stories out there about him going to die in 6 months, being in a wheelchair, etc.
There is the issue of unclaimed/unidentified/or left there by loved ones and what to do with them. The cadavers are used for research anyways so why not for a hoax.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&p=323187#p323187QuoteThey refrigerate the body. This method allows for the cadaver to be used for periods of 10 hours at a time for study/research. http://www.sccvote.org/SCC/docs/Public% ... ent%20(DEP)/attachments/APC-HSC%20Ch2%20Mass%20Fatality%20Considerations.pdfThere is the theory that the oxygen tank was planted and found after the family had gone to the house. According to E. Fleak’s medical evidence report 3A of what she found that day 6/25/2009. Included was a green oxygen tank.
Body decomposition slows once remains are placed in cold storage (between 37–42 degrees Fahrenheit). Bodies can be stored for up to 6 months in refrigerated storage, which may provide Medical Examiner/Coroner and funeral directors enough time to process all bodies in accordance with jurisdictional standards and traditional public expectations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20586093
The demand for laboratory-based teaching and training is increasing worldwide as medical training and education confront the pressures of shorter training time and rising costs. This article presents a cost-effective perfusion technique that extends the useful life of fresh tissue. Refrigerated cadavers are preserved in their natural state for up to 45 days with a daily working period of ten hours. Tissues maintain their color and natural consistency throughout this period. This new process for preservation of tissue opens the door to improved surgical training and to numerous research opportunities.
Now that provides me more evidence to a theory I found out can be done. Oxygen can be forced into the lungs of a cadaver. That lets me know that is why the coroner was able to perform the autopsy on the cadaver. The oxygen forced into the lungs and body made it appear that it was a fresh death. The oxygen revived tissues if the cadaver used was preserved in it’s natural state. Below is to a link that explains how a cadaver is preserved for use of teaching. http://www.morgancc.edu/faculty/Smith,L/A&P%20II/Cadaver/Cadaver%20Workshop%20Handout%20for%20Students.pdf
Watch the video in the link below. I realize that the lungs are not in the cadaver’s body but this is a technique being developed by the use of a cadaver's lungs for research.
http://www.break.com/index/cadaver-lungs-still-breathing-on-respirator.html
This link below is to an article written in 1913 of the development of forcing oxygen into a cadaver’s lungs. The article describes how it can be done. Now if that was possible in 1913 like that, I believe that advancement on the method has come along ways since then. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F70810FB3B5F13738DDDA10994DD405B838DF1D3
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/DrMeltzer-1.jpg)
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/103/5/1205.full
It is possible to intubate a cadaver. Anesthesia students use cadavers to practice. I also have found evidence that suggests paramedics are trained to intubate on a combination of manikins and cadavers. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1746734
Autopsy report Anatomical summery:
5. Evidence of therapy
A. Endotracheal tube.
E. Anesthesiology.
End of that report plus H. and I. explains why there is hemmoragh in certain body parts. Diagnosis evidence 4. Evidence of resusitation.
Post by: Love4Michael on October 12, 2011, 10:14:55 PM
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Score a huge point for bec on her wit! I almost sprayed my laptop when I read that last line!!! That whole GP crowd seems like they are more into their hormones than humanity so I've never been a fan of that line of thought.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 12, 2011, 10:28:01 PM
Post by: bec on October 12, 2011, 10:42:46 PM
It's a test, clearly. Can you ignore the chatter of the talking heads and make your own determination? Or do their subliminal messages burrow so deeply into your psyche that they taint your perceptions?
There is nothing emaciated about this body. It's simply been fun-house-mirrored.
Speaking of fun houses, the Barnum-Thin Man connection:
Quote
Isaac W. Sprague (May 21, 1841, in East Bridgewater, Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Bridgewater,_Massachusetts)[1] - January 5, 1887, in Chicago, Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago)[2]) was a famous "human skeleton".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_W._Sprague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_W._Sprague)
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Isaac_W._Sprague&action=edit§ion=1)] Biography Although normal for most of his childhood, Sprague began losing weight at age 12.[3] In 1865, he joined a circus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus) sideshow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideshow), becoming "the Living Skeleton" or "the Original Thin Man".[3][4] The next year P. T. Barnum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum) hired Sprague to work at his American Museum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum%27s_American_Museum) until it burned down in 1865, continuing off and on to tour him throughout the country.[4] By the age of 44, he was 5 feet and 6 inches tall with a weight of only 43 pounds.[3] He died, in poverty[4], of asphyxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphyxia).[1]
Quote
Three years later, his health was so poor that he was given only six months to live. On Monday, January 6, 1887, having outlived doctors' expectations but still quite sick, he was engaged to perform in Boston. When he appeared onstage, ailing from pneumonia, he interrupted the lecturer, saying "Don't call me the living skeleton; call me the dying skeleton", and even wagered $250 that he would die before the following Saturday.http://www.phreeque.com/isaac_sprague.html (http://www.phreeque.com/isaac_sprague.html)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 12, 2011, 10:47:48 PM
@Ijustcantstoplovingu, MJ is on the stretcher in that GIF.
He's always been on that stretcher. It was just too fantastical to believe it before.
But I'm holding my ground now. No body. MJ himself went to the hospital in that ambulance. MJ himself was on that stretcher. MJ himself sat up in the helicopter. MJ himself jumped out of that coroner van.
That's my original story and I'm sticking with it.
yes that was what I originally believed, and just now when I was looking at the whole picture, the body language of who ever is stepping out of the back doors of the ambulance to be covered by that guys jacket, just made me afraid/ for a moment, I know you carnt see very much but the shape and the body languguage, and why would he have needed to be screened by the jacket? :shock: if other than mj, the jacket didnt seem to be screening the stretcher patient, could it be that that was the distraction you look here but actually Im over here, I could be very wrong on this but just thought I would point it out.
With the love always
I also have the feeling that the men with the jacket wants to distract, but only for some one else , i mean the paramedic! to the far right he has big glasses on and he sort of bend to not being reconised, everytime i see that tape he attracks my attention afraid/ i dunno its just my feeling.
LOVE and bearhug
Some comments from TIAI April 11 thread regarding the GIF pic.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg324142.html#msg324142
Quote from: paula-cQuotebec wrote:
True Grace, what came out of UCLA via Helicopter need not be what went into UCLA via stretcher gif.
I think it was Michael himself via stretcher gif. TMZ ran an article in early 2010 with a headline that said MJ was alive at UCLA. That goes along with Michael sitting up on the stretcher as seen in the gif. Some say that was debunked because of legs... I've looked a thousand times and my eyes don't see legs that aren't attached to a person accounted for in the pic that isn't Michael. 4 pics of the stretcher entering UCLA were released originally in fall of 2009... then a couple weeks later 3 more pics of the scene were released to fill in the gaps to create the gif... and those 3 frames showed Michael's face/ear/ponytail... 7 pics in total to create that gif... that's a hell of a coincidence... but I digress. (or do I)
I sure think it would be fun if the "body" was MJ himself all along, culminating in MJ jumping out of the coroner van at the end. Fun most definitely, perhaps not realistic, but the stuff of a movie for sure.
If this is a movie, in my opinion after 22 months of research and live time observations of it all, The above Scenario is what happened on screen. What happened after they said "cut" on each scene only our imagination can satisfy for now.QuoteSTUDY @ MJHD Thriller 2 (TII): The Dome Project Completed on 6-9-09
Now we are ready to start looking at some very strong evidence pointing to 9-9-09 as the MJ "resurrection" day. Keep in mind that at least some of the "resurrection" may have been filmed on another day—just like some of the "death" photography may not have been done on 6-25-09, and possibly some of the funeral / "burial" footage may have been recorded sometime other than 9-3-09. But according to the hoax plan, and the movie script: the "death" was 6-25-09, the funeral & "burial" was 9-3-09, and the "resurrection" was 9-9-09.
The following report is from the MTV website: "… Michael Jackson completed a mysterious video production known as the ‘Dome Project’ two weeks before his death … details on the project are hard to come by due to confidentiality agreements signed by those who worked on it … it was shot, from June 1-9 [ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09!]. Four sets were constructed for the video, including a cemetery similar to the one from the singer’s famous 1983 ‘Thriller’ video. Other sets included … a simulated lush jungle … In addition to the ‘Dome’ project, AEG Live is reported to have filmed 100 hours of rehearsals for the London shows …"click here; also click here, and click here
Now that the movie trailer is out, we can see that "This Is It" will include video from the Dome Project. {click here; also click here; and see the jungle shot at 0:49, click here}
Why was the Dome Project a mysterious secret, unless it’s about MJ coming back from the dead? Why does it include Thriller type shots, unless the movie is indeed Thriller 2 (TII, "T" for "Thriller" and "II" for Roman numeral 2; also TII for This Is It)? And if it is Thriller 2, then wouldn’t the movie include coming back from the dead—just like the first Thriller video??
And why was it "coincidentally" completed, only two weeks before his "death"? Doesn’t this sound more like a plan to finish the Dome Project first, and then go into the "death" phase? And most amazing: why was it completed on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09? Again, just turn that first "6" upside down, and you have: 9-9-09!!!
Hey paula,
That's a good thought about the scenes being staged. Maybe the scene of the guy sitting up on the stretcher came from there. lol 8-) However according to bec's timing of when the 4 original pics, the other 3 pictures showed up online, I say that the extra pictures showing the details of someone on the stretcher and pony tail, etc. could very well have been photoshopped in after the fact. Just like the Fake Ambulance picture. ;)
It's all about subliminal suggestions.
@PureLove-You are correct regarding pigment and once it's gone there is no return of it that I know of. :mrgreen:
@TheMoonIsDancing-The cream found at the house for bleaching could have been used on the corpse to lighten the skin to more closely match MJ's skin. The staining of the body could be from that. Look at the tops of the cream, they are stained most likely because the cream was on hands with no gloves that opened and closed the tops.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/cream-1.jpg)
Post by: simalves on October 12, 2011, 10:56:39 PM
WHY WOULD THE TUBE FROM THE AMBU BAG STILL BE LEFT ON THE FACE OF THE CORPSE? Actually it should have been removed the moment the patient was declared dead, the family is not supposed to come and see him with tubes sticking out. What about someone who would want to kiss him BYE.
Also when MJ (the corpse) was transported in the white sheet/body bag in the helicopter, there was no tube attached. So did they reattach this later?
WHAT ABOUT THOSE WADS OF COTTON ON THE ARMS TOO? A corpse would be clean, and the cotton would be removed, maybe replaced by tape if need be, but actually not.
They tried to make the corpse believable by yellowing the stomach, but he did not have a problem there, so why would that be the first to change colour?
Someone from the hoax planning department please watch NCIS, they have really good corpses on autopsy tables. And the genitals are either covered by a towel or blurred out in the program
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 12, 2011, 11:05:55 PM
And from the KINGdom, came these whispers…..
Seek the answers in the darkness. Do not be afraid to venture into hidden shadows, for you will SEE the unmistakable LIGHT surrounding the "madness" of your scope. Bolster your foothold and hone your vision while walking the path of wisdom---and soon you shall SEE, every corner, crevice, fissure...with CLARITY.
Do not become encumbered by ASSumptions from others who cast mere words upon the KNOWERS without irrefutable evidence to support their "certainties". It's no better than reading a tabloid….."Well, I read it in so-and-so, so it MUST be true!" This board alone (not to mention everything outside of this forum pertaining to the Family, knowers & MJ himself) has brought forth THOUSANDS--literally!--of VITAL pieces of the puzzle.
Believing and knowing are 2 different things. Do not digress from what's been learned in the past 2 years and allow implausible innuendos from people who "saw it on tv, so it must be true" to infiltrate what you already KNOW. Obviously, if they TRULY believed their own words beyond a shadow of doubt, they would not be spending time on a hoax board. I am of the opinion that a TRUE fan would not have a heart so cold as to invade a board that supports Michael Jackson---and his reasons for hoaxing his death!---would be here simply for the "fun" of distracting and tormenting the fans that support him. So, let's chalk it up to----> they too have fallen victim to the media; they have failed to read between the lines that Mr. Jackson has/is/and will continue to provide.
Many of you get annoyed when nonbeLIEvers come here questioning your faith and knowledge. Don't be. Instead, thank them for contributing to the quest to look beyond and prove them wrong. Thank them for playing their "role" in the journey; their doubt has motivated beLIEvers to re-examine the facts and reinforce what's already known. The palpable irresolution in their empty words reflect their OWN doubt…a cry for help perhaps. Continue to show compassion & support by helping them to think outside the box. There is a PLETHORA of information right in front of their eyes…..perhaps they are just not ready to SEE yet.
GREATNESS is produced when one goes against the grain--even when the rest of the world is ridiculing them. When everything that's been learned in the past 2 years is closely re-examined, there is absolutely no room for doubt. It's CLEAR!!! Some beLIEvers feel ridiculed by nonbeLIEvers --- who have sadly been walking along a convoluted path with their eyes shut for the past 2 years. It's THEIR choice. The CLUES are there. The "MISTAKES" are there. The EVIDENCE is there---wrapped up in an enigma of Genius, Mystery & Magic!
p.s. Front is of the STRONG opinion that the KINGdom never wanted this "Great Divide"--it was inevitable--- I assure you, Michael would NOT WANT this! however, this too shall be righted in tIME…….
Keep The Faith!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 12, 2011, 11:32:29 PM
I want to comment on some of the posts, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. Until then...Good Night beautiful family...I LOVE you all so very much!!! God Bless each and every one of you!
We will never let go of your hand Michael, for we are "knowers", and I feel so blessed to be on this journey with all of you! We LOVE you Michael...Always and Forever!
Blessings LOVE and Light bearhug
Post by: Love4Michael on October 13, 2011, 12:16:55 AM
Has this been mentioned before, sorry too many pages to read.
WHY WOULD THE TUBE FROM THE AMBU BAG STILL BE LEFT ON THE FACE OF THE CORPSE? Actually it should have been removed the moment the patient was declared dead, the family is not supposed to come and see him with tubes sticking out. What about someone who would want to kiss him BYE.
I have heard that depending on the circumstances of the death...that those types of medical devices remain intact for the coroners inspection to make certain that there was no error in placement. The family would be told before viewing that it was a necessary requirement in these cases.
Also when MJ (the corpse) was transported in the white sheet/body bag in the helicopter, there was no tube attached. So did they reattach this later?
Too tired at the moment to look back through images to see just how close a view we got of the head area but I'm not recalling anything that jumps out at me as being "lumpy" or misshaped from this ET tube so I think you caught a great oooppps there :-)
WHAT ABOUT THOSE WADS OF COTTON ON THE ARMS TOO? A corpse would be clean, and the cotton would be removed, maybe replaced by tape if need be, but actually not.
Totally no reason for these things to still be there...at least not that I can fathom. Dead men don't have circulation and therefore won't be bleeding any time soon...lol.
They tried to make the corpse believable by yellowing the stomach, but he did not have a problem there, so why would that be the first to change colour?
It wouldn't...that whole color scheme is off in that pic as a few have mentioned. You don't even have to magnify it to pick up on that. How many sections of different hues are in that pic?...it's crazy obvious.
Someone from the hoax planning department please watch NCIS, they have really good corpses on autopsy tables. And the genitals are either covered by a towel or blurred out in the program
Looove NCIS...one of a very few things I miss since doing away with my cable months ago.
Post by: MJonmind on October 13, 2011, 12:21:15 AM
Quote from: TheMoonIsDancing on Today at 08:50:04 AM
Quote
and another thing, this hoax ecspecially the autopsy pic, made me realize how much I love Michael and want a second chance so bad from him. I know none of us deserve it and it is not owed to us. But wouldn't be nice to have our king back?!I will patiently wait for it!!
MsTrinity333
Quote
http://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM
Thank you for the link. Here are two pics from Pearl Jr. video.
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/coronerlicensenumbers.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/elephantsignatcourthouse.jpg)
Along with the emotionally hard pics of MJ from the trial, have come clear messages/proofs that MJ is indeed in complete control and creating all this!!(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/popcorn1.gif)
And thank you for the reminder fatalkiss26 from Front on having patience with newcomers who still believe MJ is dead. One day both sides of all who truly love MJ will be united as we cheer for our returned King!
Post by: Elsa on October 13, 2011, 03:28:47 AM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 13, 2011, 04:55:41 AM
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#ProcessQuoteProcess
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
As for the sting, I had a talk with bec last week and we compared 'notes'. I think the sting IS against Sneddon et al, and Jordy Chandler might be the key figure in all this. There was talk that Jordy spoke about the case, that nothing ever happened and that Michael was framed. But we can't find him saying that anywhere. I think that rumour was started on purpose, because I am very sure some people (Sneddon, Zonen, Sheriff whatshisname etc. plus Dimond, Bashir and all the other rats that were responsible for the false allegations) got very nervous hearing that. Maybe Jordy is the 'bate' in this sting. Jordy was old enough to remember everything and he must have crucial information. The fact that he didn't want to testify against Mike (twice!) must already have made some people get nervous, I bet they crapped themselves when they heard Jordy spoke out. Keep in mind that Jordy NEVER wanted to cooperate, but that Chandller and Torbiner drugged him to plant false memories in his head. I truly believe Jordy is on Michael's side.
It's just a thought and not provable because if this is going on, it's behind the curtains, but that would be a sting that makes sense. Personal vendetta, it's what the FBI has investigated, so I think (and I HOPE) that that is the case. I think this trial is merely to get people to see how easy it is to frame someone for something they didn't do, and how someone is condemned without trial because of the biased media reports. This hoax is more than just the sting.
Post by: wishingstar on October 13, 2011, 07:26:26 AM
All the world's a stage.......I hope and pray Michael is using it like never before.
Blessings & LOVE
Post by: Grace on October 13, 2011, 07:53:18 AM
And the wound in the middle of his chest is something that should be analyzed
Intra-aortic balloon pump.
Was that claimed? Who said that the "wound" would be result of an IABP?
This explanation of the star on his chest is highly improbable.
Here's why:
The photo indicates a "five arm star wound" the size of about 2 inches in the middle of the chest at level of the armpits:
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney.jpg)
What is an intra-aortic balloon pump?
It is a device to support blood output of a weakened heart. After inserting the pump, it works computer-controled. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intra-aortic_balloon_pump (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intra-aortic_balloon_pump)
When is an intra-aortic balloon pump part of a therapy?
Quote
Intra-aortic Balloon Pump (IABP) therapy is the most widely used means of circulatory support for patients with hemodynamic instability resulting from LV Failure. Well known effects of IABP include decrease in afterload that leads to an increase in stroke volume and cardiac output.* Today, insertion of the IAB catheter can be initiated rapidly with relative ease and safety. The technological advances have permitted a wide range of hospitals, large and small, to take advantage of this potentially life-saving therapy.http://ca.maquet.com/therapies-solutions/ (http://ca.maquet.com/therapies-solutions/)
What is LV failure?
It is the left ventricular failure of the heart, failing pump required amounts of blood. It is not equal to a cardiac arrest.
Quote
Heart failure is the pathophysiologic state in which the heart, via an abnormality of cardiac function (detectable or not), fails to pump blood at a rate commensurate with the requirements of the metabolizing tissues or is able to do so only with an elevated diastolic filling pressure.http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview)
Heart failure (see the images below) may be caused by myocardial failure but may also occur in the presence of near-normal cardiac function under conditions of high demand. Heart failure always causes circulatory failure, but the converse is not necessarily the case, because various noncardiac conditions (eg, hypovolemic shock, septic shock) can produce circulatory failure in the presence of normal, modestly impaired, or even supranormal cardiac function. To maintain the pumping function of the heart, compensatory mechanisms increase blood volume, cardiac filling pressure, heart rate, and cardiac muscle mass. However, despite those mechanisms, there is progressive decline in the ability of the heart to contract and relax, resulting in worsening heart failure.
Cardiac arrest may cause heart failure but is is not the same condition.
Quote
Common causes of heart failure include myocardial infarction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction) and other forms of ischemic heart disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ischemic_heart_disease), hypertension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertension), valvular heart disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvular_heart_disease), and cardiomyopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiomyopathy).[4] The term "heart failure" is sometimes incorrectly used to describe other cardiac-related illnesses, such as myocardial infarction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction) (heart attack) or cardiac arrest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_arrest), which can cause heart failure but are not equivalent to heart failure.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_failure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_failure)
How is an IABP (intra-aortic ballon pump) being applied?Its lenghty form demands an insertion into a blood vessel large enough to carry it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Dscp_Iab.JPG)
The IABP must be placed accurately (monitored by x-ray).
(http://www.medivisuals.com/images/products/detail/D-15124-04G.jpg)
Quote
The IABP catheter is inserted percutaneously into the femoral artery through an introducer sheath using the modified Seldinger technique. Alternative routes of access include subclavian, axillary, brachial, or iliac arteries. The catheter can also be inserted surgically using a transthoracic or translumbar approach, but this is associated with an increased periprocedural mortalityhttp://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/587246_6 (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/587246_6)
Where are the body regions where an IABP catheter is inserted? I marked the alternatives for the insertion of the catheder in the attachement below. [credit to http://www.merriam-webster.com/art/med/artery.htm (http://www.merriam-webster.com/art/med/artery.htm)]
The chest area where Michael allegedly received an IABP and carries the star-like alleged wound is called (coincidence?) STERNUM and it is a bone keeping the ribs together.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Illu_thoracic_cage.jpg/250px-Illu_thoracic_cage.jpg)
Impossible to cause the alleged star wound by application of an IABP.
Don't believe everything that is being claimed.
Post by: suspicious mind on October 13, 2011, 08:29:50 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 13, 2011, 09:10:29 AM
The point is...the pic has been altered. If we believe Lou (and there's no reason not to)...then I'm pretty sure that Mike had definition and tone and perhaps even a six-pack, as Souza suggested. Muscle definition is generally more prominent on a 'slim' body....even IF Mike wasn't working out with Lou, he has always had the 'body' of a dancer...lean but toned. Although I do believe it is, in fact, Mike in the pic...the way his body is depicted, IMO is not the body of a 50 year old 'healthy' dancer. So why alter the pic? Given all the other 'ties' between this trial and the past allegations, bec's idea is very plausible. The idea (sorry don't remember who said it) of the body being 'stretched' because the truth has been 'stretched'...is also very plausible.
Given the fact that this (along with other questionable 'evidence) was presented in court, though, raises a whole bunch of other issues, that could very well end up being part of the 'plan' in exposing the inadequacy of the court system. I keep going back to what TS said in his first post in this thread:
Quote
The jury is not allowed to get any information about the trial from the internet, so whatever we discuss here should not have any influence on the verdict.
I previously commented on finding this quote from TS as being 'odd'...and maybe it's nothing at all and he was just filling space. But something tells me there's more to it than that. Juries are not allowed to view any 'info' regarding a case outside of what is presented in a 'court of law'...not just this jury but any jury. At times, judges go as far as sequestering juries to ensure that they are not 'exposed' to any outside info. What does that say about us...as thinking and reasoning human beings...that if called upon to be a 'juror' we are not able to discern between 'truth' and 'lies'? To the point where we are admonished from doing our OWN research in trying to determine the 'fate' of the accused.
All the info on this very board has only come about because WE have stepped out of the 'box' that is presented to us daily through the media and that is currently being presented in a 'court of law'. This case is definitely NOT the first case to have false and/or manipulated 'evidence' presented to jurors as 'truth'. They are then asked to determine the validity of the 'evidence' based on what lawyers and witnesses are telling them. But the problem is that both sides always have a 'dog in the fight,' so to speak....and as has been proven many, many times in many, many court cases, both sides will go to great lengths to 'win', even if that means 'stretching' the truth or flat-out fabricating it.
I find it ironic that the 'system' relies on, and is confident about, 12 men and women determining the 'fate' of another human being....but at the same time, NOT confident in these 12 people doing their own research to determine if what is being shown and said in court is the 'truth'.
If the jury in this case was 'allowed' to do their own research....as we have done for the past 2+ years....their deliberations would last a total of 10 seconds because they'd KNOW that Murray is not guilty of anyone's death, since Mike is alive.
Again, not sure exactly why TS felt it necessary to 'throw' that quote into his post...but I do hope that once this is all over with, that a complete re-examination of the court system is done. I know that if I was ever wrongly accused of a crime (without the ability to have a Tom Mesereau in my corner---which most defendants can't afford)....I'd sure want those 12 men and women to research every single detail of my case in order to determine if what is being said in court is the 'truth'.
If the 'system' can't 'trust' these people to 'think for themselves,' and instead views them as mindless 'victims' that will become 'tainted' by outside info...then IMO, they should not be allowed to decide the fate of another.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 13, 2011, 09:36:04 AM
I just want to state my change of mind on the pre-autopsy pic. Initially it simply did not look like MJ, but upon closer examination, I now feel it is him indeed. He does have a 50 year old body in excellent shape. There has been either make-up applied or it's been photoshopped to add to the dramatic aspect, such as the red bruising by the heart, and perhaps stretched. For me also it relates to the forced upon him traumatizing photos in the 2003 allegations. I was thinking how all these years the public and paps wanted to snoop into every aspect of his life giving him no privacy. In this hoax, MJ is giving us glimpses into all the most personal aspects of his life, photographs of his private rooms, interviews of some of the people close to him, images of his children, and most importantly images of his almost naked body. The world always wanted a piece of him, to have him, to know everything. To see his body like that gave me chills/thrills and a sadness. MJ has literally given us his ALL. It again reminds me (not of the fake shroud) but the imagined naked figure of Jesus on the cross or stake as JW's claim, while the onlookers jeered or wept. It evokes much emotion for me, in its beauty, frailty, exposure, and for the heart of the man who would give this hoax story to us, to the world. I love you Michael!
Quote from: TheMoonIsDancing on Today at 08:50:04 AMQuoteand another thing, this hoax ecspecially the autopsy pic, made me realize how much I love Michael and want a second chance so bad from him. I know none of us deserve it and it is not owed to us. But wouldn't be nice to have our king back?!I will patiently wait for it!!
MsTrinity333Quotehttp://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM
Thank you for the link. Here are two pics from Pearl Jr. video.
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/coronerlicensenumbers.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/elephantsignatcourthouse.jpg)
Along with the emotionally hard pics of MJ from the trial, have come clear messages/proofs that MJ is indeed in complete control and creating all this!!(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/popcorn1.gif)
And thank you for the reminder fatalkiss26 from Front on having patience with newcomers who still believe MJ is dead. One day both sides of all who truly love MJ will be united as we cheer for our returned King!
What you said above was truly beautiful Mjonmind... :'(
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 13, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
those still in doubt need to read Front's post:And from the KINGdom, came these whispers…..
Seek the answers in the darkness. Do not be afraid to venture into hidden shadows, for you will SEE the unmistakable LIGHT surrounding the "madness" of your scope. Bolster your foothold and hone your vision while walking the path of wisdom---and soon you shall SEE, every corner, crevice, fissure...with CLARITY.
Do not become encumbered by ASSumptions from others who cast mere words upon the KNOWERS without irrefutable evidence to support their "certainties". It's no better than reading a tabloid….."Well, I read it in so-and-so, so it MUST be true!" This board alone (not to mention everything outside of this forum pertaining to the Family, knowers & MJ himself) has brought forth THOUSANDS--literally!--of VITAL pieces of the puzzle.
Believing and knowing are 2 different things. Do not digress from what's been learned in the past 2 years and allow implausible innuendos from people who "saw it on tv, so it must be true" to infiltrate what you already KNOW. Obviously, if they TRULY believed their own words beyond a shadow of doubt, they would not be spending time on a hoax board. I am of the opinion that a TRUE fan would not have a heart so cold as to invade a board that supports Michael Jackson---and his reasons for hoaxing his death!---would be here simply for the "fun" of distracting and tormenting the fans that support him. So, let's chalk it up to----> they too have fallen victim to the media; they have failed to read between the lines that Mr. Jackson has/is/and will continue to provide.
Many of you get annoyed when nonbeLIEvers come here questioning your faith and knowledge. Don't be. Instead, thank them for contributing to the quest to look beyond and prove them wrong. Thank them for playing their "role" in the journey; their doubt has motivated beLIEvers to re-examine the facts and reinforce what's already known. The palpable irresolution in their empty words reflect their OWN doubt…a cry for help perhaps. Continue to show compassion & support by helping them to think outside the box. There is a PLETHORA of information right in front of their eyes…..perhaps they are just not ready to SEE yet.
GREATNESS is produced when one goes against the grain--even when the rest of the world is ridiculing them. When everything that's been learned in the past 2 years is closely re-examined, there is absolutely no room for doubt. It's CLEAR!!! Some beLIEvers feel ridiculed by nonbeLIEvers --- who have sadly been walking along a convoluted path with their eyes shut for the past 2 years. It's THEIR choice. The CLUES are there. The "MISTAKES" are there. The EVIDENCE is there---wrapped up in an enigma of Genius, Mystery & Magic!
p.s. Front is of the STRONG opinion that the KINGdom never wanted this "Great Divide"--it was inevitable--- I assure you, Michael would NOT WANT this! however, this too shall be righted in tIME…….
Keep The Faith!
Another great quote; thank you for posting...
Post by: Love4Michael on October 13, 2011, 10:06:25 AM
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
This part of Souza's post reminded me of something from the other day. Did anybody else catch the objection regarding Ed Winters whereabouts the other day or was I hearing things? I think it was while Fleak was on the stand...his name came up and defense asked her if she knew where he is...and I think the prosecution objected to that question. Why would they object to that since he was the pivotal "frontman" for the Coroners Office post 6/25? I find that strange if I heard it correctly (Kline's name and the innuendo surrounding him haven't met the same objection) but haven't had a chance to re-listen on YT to know for sure. Anybody else hear what I did or have an opinion about it?
Post by: wishingstar on October 13, 2011, 10:08:09 AM
Anyways...great post BTC : ) The truth will be revealed.......and we will know in our hearts and minds, we did all we could to discover the man we never knew.
Blessings for a great day
Post by: Mish1981 on October 13, 2011, 10:22:08 AM
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
This part of Souza's post reminded me of something from the other day. Did anybody else catch the objection regarding Ed Winters whereabouts the other day or was I hearing things? I think it was while Fleak was on the stand...his name came up and defense asked her if she knew where he is...and I think the prosecution objected to that question. Why would they object to that since he was the pivotal "frontman" for the Coroners Office post 6/25? I find that strange if I heard it correctly (Kline's name and the innuendo surrounding him haven't met the same objection) but haven't had a chance to re-listen on YT to know for sure. Anybody else hear what I did or have an opinion about it?
I think I heard the same thing you did and yes it was when Fleak was on stand.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 13, 2011, 10:29:04 AM
I really like your idea of US being Exhibit B...wouldn't THAT be something 8-) . It would be, pretty much, the only 'truth' in this circus of a trial so far. How any jury in this trial could come to a justifiable verdict without KNOWING everything that's been uncovered on this very site...is beyond me. Even IF after knowing all the 'facts' that we've uncovered...they don't SEE any 'truth' to any of it....they, at least, could say they came to their conclusions based on ALL available information.
As it stands right now...they will be basing their conclusions ONLY on what they have seen and heard in court....which, as we know, includes 'evidence' that has been altered, fabricated, and contradicted. How can any verdict that comes out of that be considered 'justice'?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on October 13, 2011, 10:55:35 AM
What you said here:
"As it stands right now...they will be basing their conclusions ONLY on what they have seen and heard in court....which, as we know, includes 'evidence' that has been altered, fabricated, and contradicted. How can any verdict that comes out of that be considered 'justice'?" /bravo/
Makes me wonder about how many people are wrongly convicted......truly scary. As far as 2005, I try to keep in mind that the actual verdict (i.e. the system) worked for Michael. He was not convicted on any count in court....he was however, convicted by the media and vicious public. I still feel there is something about the 2005 trial we are suppose to link to or that we are missing the point of.......other than the obvious of an innocent man wrongly accused. There is a current TMZ article about how Murray "sunk himself" by doing that police interview. It's as if we are re-living Bashir's interview. I will find it and post it under TMZ...if it's not already there. But, the point is here we have an innocent man accused (like Michael in 2005) and an interview which is only helping the prosecution's case. So many correlations between the trials.....Michael's trials.
Feel better BTC.....tea with honey, sleep and a Michael DVD......that's an order : )
Blessings
Post by: BeTheChange on October 13, 2011, 11:27:02 AM
You said:
"As far as 2005, I try to keep in mind that the actual verdict (i.e. the system) worked for Michael".
And I do agree that, in that case, the jury's actual verdict was the 'right' one...they somehow saw through all the lies and I think a LOT of that came down to the skill(s) of Tom Mesereau (thankfully). I've also kept that fact in mind when thinking through a possible court 'sting' and/or Mike possibly wanting to 'expose' the inherent flaws in the 'system'.
After TS made the comment about this jury and thinking about why he would've even mentioned it...I remembered something else he had said in a previous post about a possible 'court sting'. He said:
Quote
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_lol.gif) ), etc.
Keeping all this in mind, I can definitely see MJ wanting to 'expose' just how 'lucky' he was that his jury was able to determine and distinguish between the truth (T Mez) and the lies (Sneddon et al.). Had Mike not had such a high level of representation on his side...the verdict could've just as easily gone the other way.
Knowing all this...it is REALLY scary to think that the 'fate' of individuals (both those wrongly accused and those who are guilty) rests on the 'interpretation' of 12 people...who, for the most part, can only rely on what they see and hear in court to reach their verdict....which, in most cases, is only a small fraction of the actual truth, mixed in with a whole bunch of lies.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on October 13, 2011, 12:08:19 PM
"Keeping all this in mind, I can definitely see MJ wanting to 'expose' just how 'lucky' he was that his jury was able to determine and distinguish between the truth (T Mez) and the lies (Sneddon et al.). Had Mike not had such a high level of representation on his side...the verdict could've just as easily gone the other way.
Knowing all this...it is REALLY scary to think that the 'fate' of individuals (both those wrongly accused and those who are guilty) rests on the 'interpretation' of 12 people...who, for the most part, can only rely on what they see and hear in court to reach their verdict....which, in most cases, is only a small fraction of the actual truth, mixed in with a whole bunch of lies."
You are so very right.....a couple of things I am positive about with the 2005 trial. 1) Michael didn't walk out of that court a "free" man, he was convicted by the media and the prosecution's lies; 2) he didn't walk out of the court in 2005 to ride into the sunset and not live to fight another day. Michael has always had a message....always, from boyhood his message has been love. He was wrongly accused of a heinous crime, and fully acquitted (thank goodness). However, I believe the real battle begun after he came out of the courtroom doors for the last time. I would hope he had it mind, not to enact revenge so to speak, but to expose the system as a whole. I don't believe Michael has a vengeful spirit....even though he has every right to have. He does have a truthful spirit. That truth will seek it's own type of revenge in the form of awakening to the public to the lies and corruption. God gave us free will.....it's abused daily, but with the correct facts that will can do amazing things. Michael is doing amazing things. Soon and very soon the public will see the truth. We have just been privy to it because for some reason we are wired differently....we are indeed blessed by all of this chaos. That's what I want people to realize and awaken to.....we are blessed by this. The amount of hard work is astounding. The sheer volume of it all makes me faint. Yet, somehow I ended up a part of it all......and that's really awesome to me. I hold on tight....really tight. Pains from the trial will fade....patience. Believe in yourself, believe in Michael, just believe.
Blessings Always
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 13, 2011, 01:38:09 PM
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
whaaaat?
even if only a last cell would remain, that cell would still be sexy
well, jmo
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 13, 2011, 01:39:56 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 13, 2011, 01:46:02 PM
Looks just like MJ to me. Except stretched, as per Souza's earlier example.
Funny, all the women who have been lusting after MJs body for decades now get a good long look at it. They're not so lustful anymore are they?
This pic effectively enacts a sting on the Gold Pants crowd.
Lol.
Score a huge point for bec on her wit! I almost sprayed my laptop when I read that last line!!! That whole GP crowd seems like they are more into their hormones than humanity so I've never been a fan of that line of thought.
yeah right...hormones.....
why you guys have something against the fact that MJ IS SEXY? He is/was very sexy, this is a truth and he liked it and wanted to be sexy penguin/ !!!
I like the GP and I bet he liked the GP too, nobody put a gun to his head to make him wear them.
crash/ crash/ crash/
Post by: scorpionchik on October 13, 2011, 02:00:32 PM
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one.
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#Process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#Process)QuoteProcess
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
I recall when Michael said himself he gets easily embarassed, also he was once humiliated being checked out while naked during 2005 investigation. I have a hard time to believe Michael would undress and pose for a fake autopsy picture to make hoax believable, esp. if he is planning to come back. I think this picture is rather a photoshop.
Post by: Sarahli on October 13, 2011, 03:14:37 PM
I am thinking of the pictures we've been shown for example, maybe that some of them represent the truth of past events? And Michael is trying to show us what happened to him years ago like a sort of documentary. It's a kind of re-enactment of HIStory.
Coming back to the Sting, it could very well be directed at those doctors. God, they should feel threatened right now after having seen these pictures. :evil:
Several doctors have been mentioned already during the trial, and Arnold Klein is one of them. What makes me think the Sting could be directed at him for example is that he was Michael's main doctor and is NOT on the witness list??? Why? It does not make any sense at all given the "theme" discussed in the trial. So I'm of the opinion that this fact, to not have included Klein in the witness list, is a BIG hint as to whom the sting is directed at. Remember as well the statements that surrounded Klein after Michael's "death"; the gay garbage and the children conception. I will (safely?) assume that Michael would never include this in the Hoax. And don't forget Back's post about Klein that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Of course it would make the FBI involved.
Post by: PureLove on October 13, 2011, 06:24:02 PM
Thank you Purelove for the info. You are Turkish, correct?
And you are currently going through depigmentation process as I read. Am I correct?
I wish you the best of luck and much love! I love you more than you'll ever know, sweetheart! You have been one of my favorite posters since I joined MJDH! :-*
I believe you when you say that Michael's natural brown pigment would be completely gone if he were receiving depigmentation treatments and that raises even more doubt in my mind about the autopsy pic. I wonder why are there stains on his body? If they are prepping a certain area to cut, why in the places with stains? And why is this picture and the 'gurney pic' so stretched out?
It is not MJ's body, neither one. I do not believe so.
Thank you Purelove for your story :)
Thank you so much Moon. bearhug You are one of the reasons why I am here on this forum today. I LOVE to read your posts as well. Yes, I'm Turkish and nope I'm not going with the Depigmentation because the doctor didn't offer it to me as my vitiligo is not severe. I've got patches on my elbows, on hads and feet and just small ones on my face. Lost most of them on my face with the Repigmentation treatment I had.
After I made this post here and I turned off my pc, I thought what if Michael never had the Depigmentation treatment. That is just my opinion why he turned totally white. BUT the situation could be different. His vitiligo could be too severe and maybe he was using bleeching creams on the small areas of his own skin color. That is possible too. And this would explain why he had a brown area on his leg and this also would explain why doctor went to get his bleaching cream. I'm not saying he really went back to get the cream but this could explain why he was using a bleeching cream still. Depigmentation has some side effects and maybe his doctor didn't offer him to do it but just bleech the small dark spots left on his body with a cream. That is a possibility too.
This doesn't mean that the one in the picture is Michael. I do not believe that. But still I wanted to write about this possibility too. :-*
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 13, 2011, 06:44:55 PM
Freezing a body and then melting it and heating it up is possible and it will indeed make a body look fresh. This however requires a quick freeze (professional) and immediately after death. The freeze will stop the decomposition of the body. From the outside, you will not see that the body isn't fresh. So far it seems that the EMT's. the doctors and the coroner could have been fooled with a long-dead corpse. HOWEVER... the moment the body is at a room temperature, rigor mortis and decomp will start and at a room that is heated up like that, it will go very rapidly, most definitely when the body is thin. If we believe that the EMT's found the body with the eyes open, we can be sure that there was no way that the doctors would be able to close the eyes after pronouncing him dead 2 hours later. And according to the official story we have been fed, they did because Jermaine tells us in his book that he opened one of the eyes when he went to see the body in the hospital. Besides that, it is standard procedure.
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before. When you freeze a corpse, your tissue -that contains water- will crystalize. He called it 'freezing artifacts' (literally translated from Dutch). Standard procedure with every autopsy performed is making slices of all the organs and putting those slices under a microscope. If tissue has been frozen before, the slices of the tissue will show tiny 'holes' because the crystals damage the tissue. By all means, the autopsy report will state that certain 'freeze artifacts' are present in the tissue and it will also state that itt was most likely caused by freezing.
What they can also see under the microscope, is if the patient has been ill before death. As he explained it to me, the organs that would have been affected by the illness, would show deformation of the cells. The coroner would definitely see if the patient was terminally ill before death.
He also said that in case of a heart attack, they will notice inflammation of the heart muscle under the microscope. I didn't dare to ask if that would be the same with a cardiac arrest, because I was afraid I would give myself away, hahaha. Maybe one of the medical experts here will know that. But as far as I know, the heart did not show any signs of inflammation in the AR, but maybe I overlooked something.
Latsly, since I had the feeling the doktor enjoyed my crazy questions, I also decided to ask about embalming, to make sure La Toya is full of shit in her book about the body looking stunning after 10 weeks.
He explained that they embalmed the people that were used by the students for research and class. They use a 4% formaldehyde and use a lot to make sure the whole body is fixed and that the decomp will stop. But to make sure the corpse will not dry out and 'schrink', they also put it in a bath of formaldehyde. If you don't lay the corpse in such a bath, the corpse will not look very pretty within a few days and will dry out completely. The body will also be fixed, so we now officially have confirmation that La Toya was lying when she said that MJ (who was allegedly embalmed) looked awesome without that bath after 10 weeks, and that she could bend the body.
So who saw the 'body'?
The family: obviously in on it
Security: Alvarez is the one calling 911 at exactly 12:21 pm. His testimony was full of fat BS and I think we can safely say he is in on it. Not to mention that we have a video of the security doing high fives later on as if they were happy they pulled it off.
Murray: obviously in on it, the guy didn't kill anyone and is on trial for something he didn't do, yet looks pretty relaxed when he let's Ben photograph him at the barber/pedicure/Disneyland/tie-shopping etc.
Paramedics: Didn't compare notes and their stories differ. If they were so truthful about what they have seen, why isn't their story identical? Plus they lost PRECIOUS moments by backing out that ambulance. Why didn't paramedic #3 testify? Who is that anyway? And why are they on a fake ambulance picture? Why did they back out of the property without that being necessary?
Dr. Cooper: Pronounced MJ in the field, yet worked on the body for over an hour, even though she testified that he was clinically DOA. She also pronounced him at 2:26 which ties in with the hoax, plus she allegedly closed the eyes of a corpse that was dead for hours (or months for that matter). Same goes for Nguyen. Both women are nowhere to be found on the internet with pictures (except for some linkedin profile of Nguyen with only UCLA as working experience and 1 connection ... ) while the mysterious Dr. Daniel Cruz, who IS on the internet with pictures, and who is a cardiologist! has not been on the prosecution's witness list.
Helicopter crew: I'm not even starting on them, they had the body on the seats for the crew in plain sight. Besides that, they could have been told that they had to transport a dummy like that to distract, so the real body could safely be transported by van. No need for a real dead body either way.
Coroner: Dr. Rogers, who said he did the autopsy, looked UNREAL and lied as soon as he lowered his right hand. "What is your profession Dr. Rogers?" -> "I'm a deputy medical examiner".. ORLY? BS! He is a Chief forensic MD, as stated on the website of the LA County Coroner. Besides that, the coroner in charge of the autopsy was Lakshmanan, why isn't HE on the witness list of the prosecution? And we know that the coroner must be in on it if he did not get a MJ look-a-like on his table that died the exact moment MJ decided (years ago) to hoax his death. Either he has seen no body at all and still made a bogus report, or he had a body on his table that had been frozen and still made a bogus report.
LAPD detective Martinez, who has NOT been on the witness list for the prosecution.
Forest Lawn director Scott something, according to La Toya, plus Jeffré Phillips. Both were present when the coffin was opened after 10 weeks and they lifted the body to get palm prints... 'nuff said :lol:
There is still no reason for a real corpse. For who? To fool Martinez? Is he the target of the sting? Just he? And if so, why didn't they let him take the stand?
But anyways, I wanted to let y'all know that there is no way a coroner can be fooled with a terminally ill patient that died 6 months ago and has been on ice, no way.
Post by: paula-c on October 13, 2011, 07:02:46 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 13, 2011, 07:14:15 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 13, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
I decided to call a pathologist today. I ended up with a very helpful doctor who is a clinical pathologist. This means his profession is not really to cut into corpses (he is not a coroner or forensic pathologist) but he investigates organs and tissues of living people. However, he does perform autopsies sometimes as well, but that is around 2-3% of his work. I called and told him I was doing research because I am writing a medical thriller and had some questions so i could form a factual and accurate murder plot. He was very helpful and asked me if I could let him know when my book will be published... poor guy. However, I got some very interesting information from him about dead people, freezing them and embalming them. Here is the info he gave me in no particular order:I bet that was an interesting conversation!
Freezing a body and then melting it and heating it up is possible and it will indeed make a body look fresh. This however requires a quick freeze (professional) and immediately after death. The freeze will stop the decomposition of the body. From the outside, you will not see that the body isn't fresh. So far it seems that the EMT's. the doctors and the coroner could have been fooled with a long-dead corpse. HOWEVER... the moment the body is at a room temperature, rigor mortis and decomp will start and at a room that is heated up like that, it will go very rapidly, most definitely when the body is thin. If we believe that the EMT's found the body with the eyes open, we can be sure that there was no way that the doctors would be able to close the eyes after pronouncing him dead 2 hours later. And according to the official story we have been fed, they did because Jermaine tells us in his book that he opened one of the eyes when he went to see the body in the hospital. Besides that, it is standard procedure.
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before. When you freeze a corpse, your tissue -that contains water- will crystalize. He called it 'freezing artifacts' (literally translated from Dutch). Standard procedure with every autopsy performed is making slices of all the organs and putting those slices under a microscope. If tissue has been frozen before, the slices of the tissue will show tiny 'holes' because the crystals damage the tissue. By all means, the autopsy report will state that certain 'freeze artifacts' are present in the tissue and it will also state that itt was most likely caused by freezing.
What they can also see under the microscope, is if the patient has been ill before death. As he explained it to me, the organs that would have been affected by the illness, would show deformation of the cells. The coroner would definitely see if the patient was terminally ill before death.
He also said that in case of a heart attack, they will notice inflammation of the heart muscle under the microscope. I didn't dare to ask if that would be the same with a cardiac arrest, because I was afraid I would give myself away, hahaha. Maybe one of the medical experts here will know that. But as far as I know, the heart did not show any signs of inflammation in the AR, but maybe I overlooked something.
Latsly, since I had the feeling the doktor enjoyed my crazy questions, I also decided to ask about embalming, to make sure La Toya is full of shit in her book about the body looking stunning after 10 weeks.
He explained that they embalmed the people that were used by the students for research and class. They use a 4% formaldehyde and use a lot to make sure the whole body is fixed and that the decomp will stop. But to make sure the corpse will not dry out and 'schrink', they also put it in a bath of formaldehyde. If you don't lay the corpse in such a bath, the corpse will not look very pretty within a few days and will dry out completely. The body will also be fixed, so we now officially have confirmation that La Toya was lying when she said that MJ (who was allegedly embalmed) looked awesome without that bath after 10 weeks, and that she could bend the body.
So who saw the 'body'?
The family: obviously in on it
Security: Alvarez is the one calling 911 at exactly 12:21 pm. His testimony was full of fat BS and I think we can safely say he is in on it. Not to mention that we have a video of the security doing high fives later on as if they were happy they pulled it off.
Murray: obviously in on it, the guy didn't kill anyone and is on trial for something he didn't do, yet looks pretty relaxed when he let's Ben photograph him at the barber/pedicure/Disneyland/tie-shopping etc.
Paramedics: Didn't compare notes and their stories differ. If they were so truthful about what they have seen, why isn't their story identical? Plus they lost PRECIOUS moments by backing out that ambulance. Why didn't paramedic #3 testify? Who is that anyway? And why are they on a fake ambulance picture? Why did they back out of the property without that being necessary?
Dr. Cooper: Pronounced MJ in the field, yet worked on the body for over an hour, even though she testified that he was clinically DOA. She also pronounced him at 2:26 which ties in with the hoax, plus she allegedly closed the eyes of a corpse that was dead for hours (or months for that matter). Same goes for Nguyen. Both women are nowhere to be found on the internet with pictures (except for some linkedin profile of Nguyen with only UCLA as working experience and 1 connection ... ) while the mysterious Dr. Daniel Cruz, who IS on the internet with pictures, and who is a cardiologist! has not been on the prosecution's witness list.
Helicopter crew: I'm not even starting on them, they had the body on the seats for the crew in plain sight. Besides that, they could have been told that they had to transport a dummy like that to distract, so the real body could safely be transported by van. No need for a real dead body either way.
Coroner: Dr. Rogers, who said he did the autopsy, looked UNREAL and lied as soon as he lowered his right hand. "What is your profession Dr. Rogers?" -> "I'm a deputy medical examiner".. ORLY? BS! He is a Chief forensic MD, as stated on the website of the LA County Coroner. Besides that, the coroner in charge of the autopsy was Lakshmanan, why isn't HE on the witness list of the prosecution? And we know that the coroner must be in on it if he did not get a MJ look-a-like on his table that died the exact moment MJ decided (years ago) to hoax his death. Either he has seen no body at all and still made a bogus report, or he had a body on his table that had been frozen and still made a bogus report.
LAPD detective Martinez, who has NOT been on the witness list for the prosecution.
Forest Lawn director Scott something, according to La Toya, plus Jeffré Phillips. Both were present when the coffin was opened after 10 weeks and they lifted the body to get palm prints... 'nuff said :lol:
There is still no reason for a real corpse. For who? To fool Martinez? Is he the target of the sting? Just he? And if so, why didn't they let him take the stand?
But anyways, I wanted to let y'all know that there is no way a coroner can be fooled with a terminally ill patient that died 6 months ago and has been on ice, no way.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 13, 2011, 07:22:33 PM
Does anyone know why court won't resume till Monday? I know they ended early because of a medical convention in Chicago ( the docs are going to it) is that the reason why?
Judge Pastor said that because of scheduling conflicts for the witness for today and tomorrow.
Is this something that is usually done? A witness can't take the stand on a certain time so they just postpone the whole day?
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 13, 2011, 08:35:15 PM
Fatalkiss26 posted an article that said it was a pre-autopsy pic and that is what I said in chat. There are different pics the coroner takes at different stages. Assuming it is not real based on no V cut is useless. The court would not show a cut up body and that is as respectable as it gets because the DA is going for dramatic effect for the jury so he can get them to come back with a guilty plea. The DA has to make the jury believe there is a dead body and it was a homicide even though legally Murray can only be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Yes it is also a hoax pic and it is a televised trial. IF this trial was not televised we wouldn't know what was being shown in court.
On HLN with Jane she said that the date was cleared up and it has been said the date is 6/25/09 not 8/25/09 but even with that it would be wrong according to the autopsy report where the coroner wrote he started on 6/26/09. MissG pointed that out in chat.
I was accused today in chat of being a non-believer and asked why am I even here on a hoax site? They thought that based on my comments giving an alternative to answers as IF I am looking at the pic being real. That is how I think outside the box. I look at the pic from the opposite side of my own theory. It was funny though because as soon as I explained my nickname and I was on the forum for 20 months I got told I don't give a fuck what your nickname is. I thought that would be enough to prove I am a believer.
I was debating with a youngin who was saying that they had seen plenty dead bodies and that the body showed a bent leg. I explained the leg is not bent but relaxed. Shy did the experiment I suggested and said her relaxed leg falls to the side. I was then told by both of my haters that you just can't explain nothing to some people.
I was told I was using the age card as IF I was saying because I am older I am wiser, LMAO that was far from my point. The youngin was making statements to the chat room and no one was questioning IF it was correct. That was my point that not everyone is a young niave kid in chat. I was challenging the statements but got defensive anger instead.
Well I am not a young naive kid either, and I am also trying to prove this picture is real, but in my case it's really Michael. I know your body can change in 25 years, but not the shape (aside from gaining or losing weight). Your structure does not change between 25 and 50. Michael obviously took good care of his body and stayed in shape. Like I have said before in another thread: the Jacksons seem to have fabulous genes. Just look at Rebbie and Jackie, who are much older than Michael. They look amazing. Even Katherine looks amazing at 80 something. I am not saying Michael still looks exactly like he did 25 or 30 years ago, I am only pointing out that the proportions of his body still look the same and that this picture could very well be him posing dead.
As for the real body theory: a real body would not be transported in a sheet but in a body bag. Not only because it's preventing the leaking of body fluids, but also because there could be evidence on the body in case of foul play and a body bag would make sure evidence will not get lost. So saying that a real body was used and transported in a sheet makes no sense. Unless everyone that handled the body is in on it, and in that case there would be no use for a real corpse.
I am absolutely not against the usage of a real corpse and I have thought for a long time that a real corpse was used, but it doesn't make sense, it's not useful. Until now, all those that have seen the 'body' are people in on it (officials, security and family). But if you could give me one or two good reasons to use a real corpse, I might change my mind. But so far I haven't seen one
Yes Souza I know you are not a young niave kid and I realize you are trying to prove that MJ posed for this pic. The evidence you provided does make sense IF that was the only possible way this was done. I understand what your saying regarding his shape. I did say in my other comment I see what you are trying to point out. My saying his body would have changed by the time he was 50 was also in reference to injuries he has sustained. IF we believe the stories of him falling a great distance when he was on a high platform and the thing malfunctioned (video proof exists) or when he broke his foot or has back issues and arthritis those things change a shape. Some of those things can cause the body to malform and change the shape.
The sheet issue I had wrote about before in TIAI April 11 thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy#ProcessQuoteProcess
The body is received at a medical examiner's office or hospital in a body bag or evidence sheet. A new body bag is used for each body to ensure that only evidence from that body is contained within the bag. Evidence sheets are an alternate way to transport the body. An evidence sheet is a sterile sheet that the body is covered in when it is moved.
In my next comment I am reposting a comment I made to you in the TIAI April 11 thread regarding the use of a corpse/cadaver. I do know that you are not against the body/corpse/cadaver being used because you expressed that then. I am not completely sure about some of the officials who took the stand being in on it. The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.
The family is obviously in on it and of course his security who testified and his personal assistant but not real sure on him because from what I recall he never saw the body? He was to far away so he called Alberto to help.
I know that it's not the ONLY possible way, but it's the most likely in my opinion. Dr. Rogers did the autopsy? As far as I know it was Lakshmanan. And Dr. Rogers seemed too unreal to me. Besides that, he testified that he is a deputy, while the LA County Coroner's site states that he is Chief Forensic MD. I found that odd and suspicious. And I find Anthony Hopkins very believable at being a cold-blooded killer in Silence of the Lambs as well, but I think he's okay in real life, lol.
Another strong point against the body theory is the autopsy picture. That body looks bloody fine to me. Not that of a terminally ill patient at all. It's obviously altered to make it look skinnier, but they can't fool everyone with that. It's not boney, it looks fit and healthy. They did some Adobe magic on the stomach as well, probably to get rid of the 6-pack Michael has that Jermaine was talking about in his book. And June 25, 2009 was pre-planned years ago (MJ 2040). I know that there are a few more dates adding up to 2040, but still, what are the odds that you will have a terminally ill patient dying around that time that also looks exactly like Michael? Besides that, he leaked the info of "6 months to live" in January 2009, so it indeed was June 25 that he planned. Did he know a sick look-a-like already? But then again there would be a risk that either the person would get better (miracles do happen, I have an old neighbour that was unsavable, yet he is in treatment again and will most likely be cured) or the person could die way before June 25. You can put it in the fridge, but I don't believe for a second that you can fool a very experienced coroner like Lakshmanan with that. Besides that, what is the motive? Why use a corpse when you don't have to? So the coroner would need a dead body to work on, but it's okay to make a fake AR? Doesn't make sense. The coroner is in on it anyway, so he wouldn't need a dead body.
As for the sting, I had a talk with bec last week and we compared 'notes'. I think the sting IS against Sneddon et al, and Jordy Chandler might be the key figure in all this. There was talk that Jordy spoke about the case, that nothing ever happened and that Michael was framed. But we can't find him saying that anywhere. I think that rumour was started on purpose, because I am very sure some people (Sneddon, Zonen, Sheriff whatshisname etc. plus Dimond, Bashir and all the other rats that were responsible for the false allegations) got very nervous hearing that. Maybe Jordy is the 'bate' in this sting. Jordy was old enough to remember everything and he must have crucial information. The fact that he didn't want to testify against Mike (twice!) must already have made some people get nervous, I bet they crapped themselves when they heard Jordy spoke out. Keep in mind that Jordy NEVER wanted to cooperate, but that Chandller and Torbiner drugged him to plant false memories in his head. I truly believe Jordy is on Michael's side.
It's just a thought and not provable because if this is going on, it's behind the curtains, but that would be a sting that makes sense. Personal vendetta, it's what the FBI has investigated, so I think (and I HOPE) that that is the case. I think this trial is merely to get people to see how easy it is to frame someone for something they didn't do, and how someone is condemned without trial because of the biased media reports. This hoax is more than just the sting.
Quote
The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy. The ones who I think were in on it who haven't testified: Ed Winters and Craig Harvey. A dead body/corpse would be needed for them to work on.The last sentence the way it is written makes it look like I was saying the 2 coroner people who haven't testified needed a body/corpse to work on. That last sentence is in the wrong place I should have placed it behind:
Quote
The ER docs and the coroner's people who testified seemed legit like they worked on a real dead body. The guy yesterday spoke on doing the autopsy.I NEVER have stated that my theory included a terminally ill person. In the comment you quoted I said in my next comment I am reposting a comment I had made to you. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362783.html#msg362783
In that next comment is my theory of an already dead corpse/cadaver and I provided evidence of what is realistically possible to do to a corpse/cadaver to use it in the hoax. I provided links to reference material that comes from medical professionals in their fields of expertise. The pdf file from the Coroner Workshop has info on how they preserve a body in it's natural state. That is not embalming they do not embalm a corpse/cadaver that is going to be used for study. There is links to info of how the corpse/cadaver is kept refrigerated not frozen to prevent decomp and allows the corpse/cadaver to be used for up to 10 hrs a day and it can be stored up to 6 months if needed. I provide links to evidence so people can read the info and not just take it for granted that I am telling the truth.
Everything you wrote regarding a terminally ill person wasn't even refuting what my theory is. I am very aware of this hoax being more than a sting. I have stated many times of my beliefs regarding alot of things happening at the same time.
I am adding videos from E. Fleak's testimony because there is alot of info in her statements made during her testimony that show incompetence regardless of the fact that the death wasn't ruled a homicide until later. Even IF it was just a death scene when she went in I would think that it would be common sense to treat the scene as IF there may be foul play just in case it turns out that way. The evidence she could have documented on that day could be scrutinized later and would be helpful now during the trial. I am also adding her testimony because she is part of the coroner's office.
I am adding video of the testimony by Detective Smith especially the part when the interview was played. I am pointing out Judge Pastors repeated use of numbers to the jury.
I am adding pics of the autopsy report showing Dr. Rogers signature and his title. He was also present during the autopsy according to the report, it wasn't just Lakshmanan. The other image of the autopsy report is about how many pictures were actually taken during the process of the autopsy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNPLfnNom8&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Oct 6, 2011http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XGVditBfyQ&feature=relmfu
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 8 - 06.10.2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlj7yWZ48GI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR3Z3sgQPTw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJdIFKukP5Y&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lIyTDjVVHE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjnO3dRhf3c&feature=related
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS02JLNhP44&feature=related[/youtube]
Minute mark 59:00 on is about the interview with Murray. The DA is handing out transcripts and there is a
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5esYu3BHHC0&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
Dr. Rogers states his current position is Chief of Forensic Medicine @
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/michael-jackson-autopsy-report?page=0
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/DrRogers-1.jpg)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/photographs-1.jpg)
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 13, 2011, 08:35:45 PM
A good doctor wouldn't have abandonned a patient under the influence of propofol. That for me he had a malicious mind to kill Michael.
Michael called his brothers, and all his bodyguards, and warned them. While Murray left Michael unattended they went up and took Michael away in a safe place. Remember Jermaine's words, "we have Michael in a safe place". They took the tapes so no one would suspect the where abouts of Michael. The only thing is that they had to replace Michael with a body that resemble him.( that is the tricky one).
I will explain why I came to that theory, everything is against Conrad Murray. I am not saying that Michael is dead, I know he is alive. I am just trying to see every angle of this hoax. I am going bananas to find out what happened that day. I am sure everyone here are going bananas with me. lolol/ My theory can work until they take Michael and move him to a safe place. Then if Murray is the killer, he had to see someone that looks like Michael. He did do mouth to mouth, for the first time.. Wow! That baffled me.. I spoke to my lawyer friend, and she told me my theory makes sense, but if they took Michael away who was in the bed when Murray came back. So I decided to put my theory here, if anyone can help me put the pieces together that would be much appreciated. Like my friend said in life everything is possible, you need to get out of the box and expand your horizon. Ok I will stop here, probably I will get jumped for my stupid theory. Blessings
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 13, 2011, 09:17:22 PM
please make them read full autopsy report and see what they say. Please?
One huge reason why I'm on this forum is because of that "document", among other odd things.
That report can not be real and from my understanding {sadly I'm not a coroner,
don't have an American coroner as on-line friend and procedures here in my
country are a bit different, I read all US autopsy reports I could find online,
watched all videos, read all blogs where someones with US coroner friends commented
on autopsy [non-believers, which is good in this case, objective critical view on
questionable autopsy report]}
this report is wrong in so many ways - it sort of describes couple
different bodies. It's so weird and unprofessional in places. I'd say it's
obvious fake that can trick most regular ppl, but not a real coroner.
About theories.. Murray could be a well-paid killer, but no way he was
acting alone this way. Who paid him? Those should be on trial.
I hope Michael indeed became aware of dangers in his life and made his escape right on time.
I think there could be a dead body. It's a serious hoax, and they could bother
to such level. But absolutely, if everyone, including security team and Murray
himself, were on Michael's side {Murray was in hospital, he saw the "body"},
then there was no real need for the "dead body".
At the moment Murray looks like a total incompetent fool. So foolish and
unprofessional I can't believe MJ would allow such "doctor" in his life at all!
MJ, who met some real professionals I bet, smart man who often was
suspicious of ppl around him. I just don't believe it. That Murray guy is fake. smiley_spider
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 13, 2011, 09:27:23 PM
If anyone here has American coroner as a friend or a family member,
please make them read full autopsy report and see what they say. Please?
One huge reason why I'm on this forum is because of that "document", among other odd things.
That report can not be real and from my understanding {sadly I'm not a coroner,
don't have an American coroner as on-line friend and procedures here in my
country are a bit different, I read all US autopsy reports I could find online,
watched all videos, read all blogs where someones with US coroner friends commented
on autopsy [non-believers, which is good in this case, objective critical view on
questionable autopsy report]}
this report is wrong in so many ways - it sort of describes couple
different bodies. It's so weird and unprofessional in places. I'd say it's
obvious fake that can trick most regular ppl, but not a real coroner.
About theories.. Murray could be a well-paid killer, but no way he was
acting alone this way. Who paid him? Those should be on trial.
I hope Michael indeed became aware of dangers in his life and made his escape right on time.
I think there could be a dead body. It's a serious hoax, and they could bother
to such level. But absolutely, if everyone, including security team and Murray
himself, were on Michael's side {Murray was in hospital, he saw the "body"},
then there was no real need for the "dead body".
At the moment Murray looks like a total incompetent fool. So foolish and
unprofessional I can't believe MJ would allow such "doctor" in his life at all!
MJ, who met some real professionals I bet, smart man who often was
suspicious of ppl around him. I just don't believe it. That Murray guy is fake. smiley_spider
I have a friend who is a doctor, and he was trying to find the real death certificate and he couldn't find it. He still searching and cannot find it.. Now i can see if he can give this to his colleague cornorer to see if this is all legitimate. I am sure he will tell me that he did not see the body so he may not be very much help.. I will try.. I know they are very busy so cannot guarantie. I know my friend helped me alot for this hoax.
Post by: bec on October 13, 2011, 10:28:48 PM
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 13, 2011, 10:50:47 PM
Ok so Im_convinced, what exactly is your body theory at this point then? You've stated here recently what it is NOT (not terminal patient, not frozen), but I'm not clear on what exactly it IS.
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
I don't get it either...
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They had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
Anyways, let's assume it was kept in a fridge, fine by me because the pathologist mentioned that too. A body will go smell rotten after two days, regardless of that fridge. It slows down, it does not stop. As soon as it is placed in a hot room, decomp/rigor sets in very quickly. And will show even more signs of death than a body that was recently frozen.
I still have not heard a plausible motive for a body either and with that refridgerated body, it still has to be a quite fresh corpse. What is the chance that a person would die around that day that looks so much like Mike that a coroner could be fooled. Mike WAS allegedly identified by his DL, which means that if the coroner is not in on it, the DL had to match the corpse. Oh, and besides looking like him, it needed to have vitiligo as well.
Sorry, but I rest my case. The coroner is in on it, there is no need for an autopsy on a random corpse. There is also no reason for a real corpse for the rest of the witnesses. You either don't get what I mean, or I don't get you, but this is going in circles. Show me one very good reason for a corpse and I will reconsider, but so far you did not give me one.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 13, 2011, 10:58:27 PM
I believe a lot, but that would be too much of a coincidence.
Post by: bec on October 13, 2011, 11:25:03 PM
There's that matter of a endotracheal tube being inserted into a body in rigor as well. Thawed out=rigor. That's been proven long ago.
Post by: Grace on October 14, 2011, 12:15:53 AM
The thicker, the slower it freezes, the more crystals, the more liquid running out when melting, the more damaged cells, the more dry and tough the meat will be.
No way a corps would react differently. Having only sheets wrapped around a body would give this temporary "conservation" away in a few minutes. Even for "non-frozen" corpses a coroner's bag is used and that has some reasons.
The tabloid tale about freezing the body on FL while they were waiting for weeks for the brain to return was the most ridiculous and genius story Michael broke to tease and prove how big stupidity can grow.
I guess LaToya just wanted to indicate that the body was fine and bending = alive.
I had to laugh so hard about the AR where it was stated that LaToya and a male companion were present in a lobby to witness how two detectives were pulling "hairs".
Everybody was pulling straws and hairs at that time.
All three versions, sting, hoax and murder are still valid for me. Nothing has been easy and simple in this. Everything is arranged in multiple layers, story lines, time frames, in parallel from different perspectives - just like life. "Seven on one stroke".
I agree on "no body" and family, Ben Evenstad, Harvey, coroner, paramedics to be in.
The judge does smile too much, Flanagan does play a role, Murray's jaw drops constantly lower by the day - but that does not mean they have to be in. That sheriff deputy sitting on a flashlight cracked me up. But that doesn't mean the complete brigade in the court room has to be in. Some are certainly only doing what they usually would do - just that this action is being documented and broadcasted now.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 14, 2011, 12:44:46 AM
This is impossible to find such a body, even with the FBI involvement, except the case Michael has an identical twin who was bitten by a spider in the same exact place and changed let's say his nose in the same manner and so on.
So either there was no real corpse, or Michael is dead and there was his own body on the coroner's table.
I consider the last statement could be true because in my opinion the EMTs, the UCLA doctors and the coroner weren't lying in their testimonies in court, this meaning they worked on a real body that none of them doubted it belongs to Mr. Michael Jackson :-\.
I would be curious to know how many of you believe the persons above lied.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 14, 2011, 01:17:09 AM
After observing Conrad Murray's sleeping behaviour in court and remembering his tears from day one, I can picture a scene like this:
He puts Michael under propofol to the morning, after useless attempts all night to make him sleep. ....but poor Murray was already very tired, after a whole night of being awake by Michael's bed trying to put him to sleep......
So instead of Michael, the doctor falls asleep while he should have been awake to observe Michael......but when he wakes up, Michael is already dead because he suffered an acute propofol intoxication and went into cardiac arrest and couldn't breathe anymore.
Murray panics, he realises he messed up big time and starts thinking what he should do to cover his traces. So this would explain the stupid things he did, like not calling 911 (why call them, Michale was so dead that he couldn't be saved anymore), calling Amir instead to make it look like he cared, performing CPR on the bed (why bother to move Michael on the floor, he knew the CPR was useless anyway)....
I can really picture all these like it happened for real because Murray cried in court, though he tried hard to hold back the tears, I think he really has remorses he killed Michael, I think he really didn't want this to happen but he simply fell asleep.
He sure looks like a man who falls asleep easily.
Post by: bec on October 14, 2011, 02:02:10 AM
I thought someone had debunked death by now. Who was it who was it... eureka! I think it was TS and the numerology of the hoax. No wait, that only proved that the timing was meticulously planned. Could have been murder by the numbers, I think I recall or so the theory goes.
Considering TS's support of the murder theory I think that leaves us only one option.
Also considering TS already debunked death:
Quote
Whether or not you have read any of the previous TIAI posts, I highly recommend that you read this one—it will surely kill the murder theory (as well as any MJ literal death theory). In fact, if there is ever any TIAI post that you need to read: This Is It!!!http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 14, 2011, 02:14:06 AM
The main point is if the EMTs, UCLA doctors and coroner lied or not and I am probably the last person to judge this but to me they didn't lie. To me they all seemed sincere in their testimonies.
Of course I make this statement based on my subjective perception of telling lies vs. truth.
And I know some can even fool the lies detector. And I know people who can lie without blinking and convince me they tell the truth.
Stii......I don't think they lied. And if they didn't ------->>>>>> Michael Jackson is dead :-\.
ps: as TS abandoned the mission of sustaining the death theory, someone had to do it
Post by: bec on October 14, 2011, 02:20:59 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 14, 2011, 02:29:09 AM
I would accept them lying if they were actors, but I don't remember someone proving the EMTs for example are actors.
Post by: bec on October 14, 2011, 02:37:02 AM
Post by: bec on October 14, 2011, 02:55:42 AM
Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.
Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 14, 2011, 03:02:27 AM
Oh, and in addition to looking like Mike and having vitiligo, the body also had to have a slim body, around 50 years old, african american, with nose job done and died of acute propofol intoxication, alongside other features I probably missed.
I believe a lot, but that would be too much of a coincidence.
You think there was no corpse and coroner is on it, have supposedly done 3 autopsies and wrote 3 times long paged report for no reason.
If coroner is in hoax, then the paramedics should be on it also since they delivered empty ambulance to UCLA. Now, where do you think list of people who is in hoax stops?
LAPD is on it too? OK.
then prosecutors must be on it too? Now, they know about hoax and spend hours in court to full themselves that CM supposedly involuntarily killed Michael?
Conrad Murray is on it (though I don't believe that version) his lawyers also full themselves in every day exhausting court session to defend Murray who did not kill Michael.
Michael Pastor is on it and every day in the court room pretends that he works, but in reality he is starring like a dumb Hollywood star.
FBI is on it, but behind the scene, invisible, secretly operates sting......that is ongoing for some reason and the matter got into the court but FBI still works on sting.... what for?
On top of all this, the guilty party of this hoax does not realize that Michael is alive.
We are the only ones who knows MJ is not dead, hoaxed his death, but his enemies don't get that.
And who are those enemies anyway, who are so dumb that they believe MJ is dead and happily live their lives until MJ BAMs. They don't see inconsistencies in the story, testominies, or read this site, or watch hoax videos and ideas on youtube. Is that possible? I don't think so.
After all, Michael is coming back to laugh at all those people who knew he is not dead but were pretending in the court as if MJ is dead and were "filming reality court" for fun, and MJ will tell them "goch ya".
How believable is the scenario I described above?
To my humble opinion, Michael is alive, no one but family and couple of bodyguards who helped him to escape know about it, and he is not coming back. Most reasonable version I can think of.
How autopsy got there, was there a corpse- I don't know.
Possibly there was a corpse ready at Carolwood who was put in ambulance instead of Michael so even Murray did not realize it. You have thought about that option a while ago. I think that is most feasable version.
Vitiligo pretty common disease. To find deadly sick someone and make him look like MJ is not a problem, especially when MJ planned escape carefully and long time ago.
Still complicated.
Post by: msgitm on October 14, 2011, 03:37:12 AM
Post by: diggyon on October 14, 2011, 03:39:40 AM
So here is the video once again. Sorry for reposting.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPOxB6jmSCQ[/youtube]
Post by: MJonmind on October 14, 2011, 03:48:44 AM
Quote
Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Koffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...Good point!
Gina
Quote
ps: as TS abandoned the mission of sustaining the death theory, someone had to do itHe should be happy you're helping him out!
I know what you mean when I see the people in the courtroom--it just seems so genuine and natural and truthful. Whoever wrote up the script lines with all the medical knowledge obviously had access to the best minds in their fields. I admit I struggle with is it even possible to be so flawless when in addition it is live or seemingly 100% live. There's been a whole lot more excellent actors than just in the courtroom, even 81 year old Katherine has been amazing. Yet when you consider the 2 years worth of 'evidence' proving MJ's alive, then the ONLY conclusion is that many or most or some of the courtroom people are lying. To me there's just no other way, they are acting, so VERY very well. Only the witnesses who did not directly see MJ's body would not have to be in on the hoax. Or we throw out these 2 years worth, and we are mistaken. It again is a MAJOR MAJOR mind twist crash/ that these 2 realities can co-exist. I really do totally understtand non-beLIEvers reluctance to embrace the hoax. Is acting on this high calabre so consistently even possible. Remember the little video skit that PPB did where Paris is giving Blanket the medicine, next scene we see a zombie, etc. but never a dead body. I can't find the video anymore. I believe 100% that MJ's alive, but I still think that he's got some trick up his sleeve as to the 'body' type that none of us has thought of yet. Maybe there's still a few wild cards coming yet. MJ, TS and Front are most certainly withholding vital information. It's info on the drip for us. :lol: He who controls your information controls your destiny.
BeTheChange
Quote
I find it ironic that the 'system' relies on, and is confident about, 12 men and women determining the 'fate' of another human being....but at the same time, NOT confident in these 12 people doing their own research to determine if what is being shown and said in court is the 'truth'.
If the jury in this case was 'allowed' to do their own research....as we have done for the past 2+ years....their deliberations would last a total of 10 seconds because they'd KNOW that Murray is not guilty of anyone's death, since Mike is alive.
And…
As it stands right now...they will be basing their conclusions ONLY on what they have seen and heard in court....which, as we know, includes 'evidence' that has been altered, fabricated, and contradicted. How can any verdict that comes out of that be considered 'justice'?
Your post about the jury not allowed to search the internet, reminds me of 911, and the fact that the media wants to be the only source of the public’s info on understanding it. They don’t want people to search the internet and get alternative news. Daniel 12 says that in latter days that knowledge will increase. That could be interpreted that people in general will be given more information especially because of the internet, which is less controlled by a centralized source such as the church, the government, the media. There is still much missing information for us to make informed decisions about specific people, history, God, etc.
I noticed that the good-looking Dr. Steinberg (I think) mentioned that he had gotten an understanding of the ONE research article in a medical journal about the use of propofol for sleep purposes, which had come out post June 25, 09 from his reading on the internet. He said he was researching to prepare for being a witness in this case. I think it was Flanagan who grilled him with questions about it, such as who told you about this study. The doctor said nobody, and that he does lots of reading (sounds like lots of the internet). Does anyone know if the admonition to the jury of not going on the internet, also applies to the witnesses as well? I know the judge always tells witnesses not to discuss the case with anyone, but does he say no internet for them as well? The judge didn’t say anything about this doc searching.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 14, 2011, 06:11:16 AM
i guess for me personally, here is what i am taking away from all the recent info.... (obviously opinions can change)
1. one previous post, (apologies for not quoting name, have read so many pages today) mentioned as a theory perhaps CM was murderer and then on the fly MJ responded and his family got him out safely. personally i feel that too many of his past lyrics, music, statements, TII, for years, all point to a death hoax based on revenge / take over. so therefore in my humble personal opinion, (i say this to aknowledge that i am a mere beginner in hoax land) i dont think that this was all an adhoc, reactive, response to a potential murder carried out by CM. the previous events leading up are too coreographed for this to be a murder aswell as the forementioned references in his work. following death date, all the comments via family in support of DH (this is not really it, not the final curtain call) etc etc or at a minimum the continual reference to MJ in present tense (daddy wanted to be here tonight) etc etc. for me personally, the murder theory is out, and the DH based on reaction to possible murder is out... who knows... i may change my opinion down the track.
2. that brings me to the autopsy photo (so called proof that mj is dead / murdered).... it looks like mj, manipulated. i agree with souza on this one. i think it is a staged photo that mj posed for, i dont feel it is a real dead body. therefore i have completely eliminated body theory. anyways, not bringing up photo merely to declare what i think the photo is. the reason is, i have been reading all your comments and really thinking about them and this pic. if i am on the DH side of the fence and then get this photo shown to me, why should it change my position from DH to literal DEATH. for me personally, if i am going to accept evidence such as autopsy photo, it means that i am going to have accept other evidences / statements for that side of the fence.... (im getting there, bare with me) brings me to Mrs Jacksons statement, about michales body / face due to resuscitation attempts... if this is a real photo, with a real MJ dead on the table, and Mrs Jacksons statement is real, then the two dont match up. personally for me, this photo does not set my faith back. in fact this photo only cements my faith DH even more.
more abt the photo. my second personal rebuttle to the pic, and please note that i say this will all due respect to MJ. this so called autopsy photo has been noted as being taken a few hours after MJ 'passed away' bodily fluids / colon would be evacuating by this time, no evidence of that on the bed. if this photo was legitimate, they would have had him on an appropriate surface where water can be used to wash away the involuntry fluids, as well as prepare the body for autopsy, then perform autopsy. http://www.crimefilenews.com/2009/06/michael-jacksons-second-autopsy.html
weather this photo was taken several hours or at time of autopsy, i dont feel that the surface is appropriate for a dead body. also if this photo is taken only a few hours after 'time of death' and not at autopsy, why the need for him to be naked, if not yet ready for the procedure.
moving on...
3. re: a comments made about actors / characters / lies, etc. in my humble and PERSONAL opinion, none of the so called statements in court that seem real are lies. because the comments are not in reference to reality. in realation to bec's comment, about when we watch a movie, do we consider characters as liars, is SPOT on! looking at this courtcase as a movie. /bravo/
learning so much and appreciate everyones dilligence.
L.O.V.E to all.
Post by: PureLove on October 14, 2011, 06:23:12 AM
Post by: simalves on October 14, 2011, 06:51:06 AM
If they truly tried to revive him, (remember UCLA was the best known hospital for their program to revive the dead even after one or two hours) there would be iron like marks on his chest. Or if they shocked the heart directly, there would have been cuts on his chest to expose his heart to the shock paddles.
So are we to believe that the emergency team did not do what they could have. Did the EMTs in the ambulance also not have a portable defibrillator that they could have revived Michael with. So that means they are all to blame. Its basic first aid for a heart patient who has flatlined.
There aren't even hand compression marks where Murray would have broken Michael's ribs if he had to really do compressions - and people still believe this is a real autopsy/dead body pic? WTF??
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 14, 2011, 07:08:56 AM
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
@purelove - pure perfect comment!!! /bravo/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 14, 2011, 08:34:49 AM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 14, 2011, 08:41:35 AM
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Purelove I was coming here to make a comment and then noticed your post. Well said!
So I don't have to make two post I'll just post my thoughts here:
Sorry I don't mean to come out harsh but this is something I stayed up all night thinking about. By all means I am ready for the bashing and degrading comments that I am sure are to come but before people start typing just think about it for a few minutes.
People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see.
To take it a step further we would then need to just accept that all of the inconsistencies that we have seen in the last 2 years (too many to count) and everyone who has opened up their mouth needs to see a doctor about memory loss because they can't remember what they have said from one interview to another.
To take it one step further, Back, TS and Front then all have more then enough time on their hands and should seek immediate mental help for all of the post that they have done which in turn would mean that we too need to seek mental help because of the chain reaction. Meaning TS or Front post on this board and then the research starts and all of the connections that can be made are just the draw of luck. If that is truly the case then there is a whole lot of luck in the air and I should take a chance at playing the lottery.
Is it that "coincidental" that Michael had this in the making for years and it just so happens that Murray comes along to kill him (hired or not) and everything just happens to line up with everything Michael had been working on to begin with? If we think that Murray was trying (again hired or not) to kill Michael and he found out and was able to escape then the sentence before has no standing and it again was just a coincidence that everything in the past connects and we should all quit and call it a day.
With that being said, I feel better thank you for letting me get that out.
Post by: curls on October 14, 2011, 09:09:36 AM
I'll be honest and say that watching the trial, and anticipating the verdict, I've been going from side to side almost daily!
With Fleak and the detective who examined and photographed the house, I thought Murray will surely go free - there were so many flaws in their actions regarding evidence and securing the house etc. Then the cardiologist and sleep expert had me thinking Murray is guilty as sin - but they based their testimonies on Murray's own 'interview' (not testimony, as the judge pointed out many times), assumptions about MJ and addiction that they appeared to have got straight from the tabloids, and Klein's records, which conveniently he is not going to be called to account for.
I'm really interested to see what the defense witnesses come up with next week. I'm thinking there may be a few shocks and surprises here and I'm organising my life to be able to watch it all!
But I tell you, it IS a hard job being an impartial jury member! When stories do not match, are people really lying, or just forgetful of what really happened, and just who do you believe?! And anyway, would YOU forget what happened if you'd been around when Michael Jackson died?? suspicious//
If he WAS dead, let's say accidentally, giving Murray the huge benefit of the doubt, or yes, even with Murray as an unethical, ill-equiped man-slaughterer, things would surely be far more straightforward - people's stories would tie up more and be believable (e.g. LaToya, Jermaine). Photos would not be shown as they add nothing to the jury's understanding of the case, as they would if there were injuries etc pertaining to the manner of death. And if photos HAD to be shown to the jury for these reasons, the judge would not allow them to be shown to the entire world as well.
If he was murdered, it would surely have been done in a watertight, no-questions-asked way. There would not have been a questionable doctor and subsequent court case involved. I have never entertained this idea.
I don't think MJ is dead, therefore to have all this hulabaloo over his death has to be intentional. This HAS to be a movie, a real life reality production. I cannot get my head round any other theory.
Now how much the court is hoax, sting or a mixture of both, I can't say. I will stick my neck out and say it's more than just 'entertainment', because all of MJ's previous work has always had a deeper meaning or message than just for entertainment's sake. There is no reason to suppose this epic production, the best that was 'yet to come', would not have equally epic deeper layers. I'm watching and waiting to fully understand what these may be. I've almost given up speculating now and I'm in 'wait and see' mode!
Oh, and finally, one unrelated thought I had recently, which was prompted by someone accusing me of being a 'crazy MJ fan who, along with other crazy MJ fans, was bound to make up a suitably crazy faked death story when he died'. Well I was never, and am still not, a crazy MJ fan - and more importantly, I'd say the vast majority of us here were and still are not. The 'crazy MJ fans', if such a thing exists are the ones still wailing and mourning their idol. And they did not invent a death hoax. Their 'craziness' and short-sighted adoration didn't make them go with a faked death idea because they couldn't bear the thought of him being gone. It was all of us, with our many and varied (and less 'fanatical' in many cases) 'histories' regarding MJ, who through some unexplained phenomenon were drawn to DISCOVER the hoax - we didn't INVENT it! That explanation, needless to say, didn't convince my accuser!
Post by: curls on October 14, 2011, 09:15:17 AM
People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see.
Brilliantly put Mish! respect/ Guess I was trying to say similar with my ramblings just now!
Post by: BeTheChange on October 14, 2011, 09:15:36 AM
You know on second thought, this is a never-ending, un-winnable debate. Most aren't going to really believe until MJ moonwalks across the courtroom. And some won't even believe then.
Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.
Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.
@Bec....I can sense your frustration and it's understandable...I think we've all experienced frustration at various times throughout this hoax. But PLEASE don't start 'saving your breath'!! The ONLY two things I'm not willing to 'bend' on are 1) Mike being alive...there's just way too much that we've seen and learned to make me believe otherwise....and 2) that he 'threw' this all together at the last minute to escape....again, WAY too intricate detailing for that to even have an ounce of credibility. Mike IS alive and anyone who 'wavers' on that point, especially people who have followed this hoax for 2+ years....need to re-examine why they've stuck around for so long.
The points members have made about there being no 'body'....especially the latest posts by Bec and Souza....make a lot of sense. From the beginning, it made more sense that, if at all possible, no real dead 'body' would be used. I had always leaned more towards there having been a 'dummy' and real live MJ used at varying times. Once I heard Dr. Cooper's testimony, though, I started to re-examine my beliefs...primarily because she stated that there were 14 (convenient #) people, in total, in the trauma port at UCLA working on a 'body'. Furthermore, she said that up to 6 other docs (Nguyen included) were consulted by her on June 25th. So I started thinking....these 14 + 6 inconsequential people would have to be 'in on it' as well....and would it make 'sense' for Mike to include these 'other' unknowns in the hoax? Again, always keeping in mind (my belief anyway) that the fewer people 'in on it' the better.
Now, having read Bec, Souza, and others' perspectives/ideas on there not needing to be a 'body'....I've started thinking differently about the whole thing. I had NO problem believing that those in the house on June 25th were 'in on it' (i.e. Murray, security, even EMTs)...it was Dr. Cooper's testimony that got me rethinking the possibility of there being a real dead body. Dr. Cooper said there were 14 other people in the trauma port that day and that she consulted up to 6 other docs. The ONLY person, among those supposed 20 people, that also testified was Dr. Nguyen. Where are the other 19 people? We haven't heard from any of them...so we'd have to take Dr. Cooper's 'word for it' that these people were even present. But if Dr. Cooper is on the hoax, which I think she would have to be, can we take any of her testimony at 'face value'? Looking back now, it seems 'logical' and for those who have always believed there was no body used...you may be shaking your heads thinking WTF?? ...why is it only making 'sense' now? But the reality is (at least for me)...that once you start down a 'path', you tend to look for points/ideas that support your belief and not focus too much on different ones. It IS the different perspectives that allow us to broaden, strengthen, or change our beliefs and that's why they're necessary and very much appreciated.
Again, I know that it is frustrating at times for us to keep going over points or 'theories' that, in our minds, have been 'proven'. But the only way to strengthen our beliefs is to listen to other perspectives and line them up against our own...and look for what seems more plausible. Therefore, I TRULY hope that Bec and others will keep sharing their thoughts and ideas....even if there's moments when it feels like it's a waste of time and/or it's best to 'save our breath'. I REALLY appreciate hearing all perspectives because, at the end of the day, it is all theory since none of us were there or have the 'inside' scoop. But even when dealing with 'theories'...hearing different ideas/perspectives...allows us to 1) share our thoughts, which in turn helps us on an individual level because writing helps to sort out our ideas, and 2) it allows us to re-examine our beliefs, which in turn either strengthens what we believe or it causes us to tweak our beliefs.
Either way...all we really have is each other and an unknown amount of time on our hands. Frustration, at certain times, is inevitable (imagine how frustrated Mike must be at times)...but in order to keep maintaining the purpose of this site (and I firmly believe that there is a VERY important reason for this site beyond the beauty of coming together over Mike)...we must work through that frustration, forgive each other when/if we 'lash out' because of that frustration, and work as a team...even if only to get through the 'darkness'.
To sum up lol....Bec PLEASE don't start 'saving your breath'....you, Souza and every member who is genuinely looking for 'truth' and understanding, and trying to make 'sense' of everything....always have been and always will be, greatly appreciated.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Adi on October 14, 2011, 09:40:05 AM
Galaxy,
Solar system,
Planet,
Continent,
Country
Start broad and work down to a smaller and more concentrated entity....like a pyramid turned upside down...666 into 999
Someone in a big broader "agency' at the "top" knows.
The next person down from them "knows"
Next person down from them "knows"
So on.....and
so on
The entire thing has been, and will continue to be, an illusion for the non-believers and believers......it's for ALL of us.
No-one knows FOR SURE exactly how Michael has done this....except most would agree that it has been brilliantly planned for a long, long time and has been brilliantly executed....and continues to be.
Post by: applehead250609 on October 14, 2011, 09:54:00 AM
Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Koffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...
Msgitm thank you very much for this post.That movie is awesome,Jim Carrey and Danny Devito also respect/.Talking aboutJim Carrey,here is what he was doing lately :mrgreen: :
Jim Carrey Gets Into a Graffiti War With New York City
(http://sflchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/0909-jim-carrey-graffiti-10-480x720.jpg)Jim Carrey has always been off the wall. But that is what we loved most about Carrey. At least that is what I loved most about Carrey. The media lately has been calling Jim out basically saying he has “gone off the deep end” or now “he’s just totally crazy”. The truth is, Jim Carrey is a GENIUS. Yeah, a GENIUS! If you don’t think so, I strongly recommend that you watch Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. and then get back to me.
All that being said, Carrey has been in the news lately. First it was for professing his love on YouTube for Emma Stone. In which he lets her know she is “All the way beautiful”, as well as telling her, “We would laugh all day long…go camping…play Yahtzee…tell ghost stories by the fire.” He is romantic for sure.
Now the spotlight is on Carrey over graffiti he painted on his art studio. The media misreported it as his house. Saying how he was trying to depreciate the value on his home. Not true at all! But Carrey was spotted over Labor Day weekend spray painting his West Village New York art studio. He actually had to re-paint it after New York officials painted over it.
The original picture was of a character he created named Baba, who he explained is a “mischievous deity … [who] exists in negative space.” He also tagged the wall with the initials “F.F.C.” Carrey took to twitter to explain it was actually his art studio, which he has dubbed “The Church of FFC.”
“In case u believe what u read in papers n blogs lolol/, i did’t tag my house,” he tweeted. “It’s my art studio, a simple space where i can unleash my #Boing.”
His work was then painted over by New York officials, and Carrey was not too happy. Nor should he be. It is his damn property. So he decided to paint the image back on, along with the words written in bright green spray paint, “This graffiti reapplied pursuant to …” with a picture of Baba and the initials F.F.C.
Carrey to TMZ, “This gentleman has a job to do,” (of the city worker who painted over his original graffiti) “I’m just doing my job now as an artist and putting it back up. They can take it down again if they want to and it’s OK with me … I’ll even pay for it.”
With all the murders in NYC lately, as well as the focus on terrorists for the 9/11 anniversary, imagine that they are messing with Carrey over art on a wall. I just don’t get what is with all the authoritarian behavior everywhere. What a sign of things to come! afraid/ OMG!
(http://sflchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/0909-jim-carrey-graffiti-01-480x720-150x150.jpg)
(http://sflchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/0909-jim-carrey-graffiti-08-480x480-150x150.jpg)
(http://sflchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/0909-jim-carrey-graffiti-11-480x720-150x150.jpg)
(http://sflchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/jim-carrey-house-150x150.jpg)
As for Danny Devito here he is doing wonderful things for children together with Bruce Willis,Jack Nicholson and many more respect/ :
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20081028/paul-newman-benefit/images/0046eaec-d5f4-4f15-8085-d504f92bb80b.jpg)
(http://www.accesshollywood.com/content/images/78/230x306/78015_danny-devito-smiles-with-some-of-the-painted-turtle-children-at-the-end-of-the-show.jpg)
You know what HE said: IT'S ALL FOR LOVE!!!!!
Post by: Adi on October 14, 2011, 10:07:25 AM
You will be amazed.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 14, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
1. I still think there is the possibility of a real body during the 911 call that the EMT's didn't recognize as Michael (warm room). EMT #3 "missing" and not testifying might be a strong indication of the Sting element & FBI involvement... and the erasure of the security tapes.
2. The hospital ER fiasco is not real = some sort of drill or set up. Remember the Lock-down? The Alarm? Shaun S? Like someone said...where are all these people that were involved and WHY aren't they testifying?
3. The Autopsy is FAKE just like all the pictures Mike has posed for and manipulated. TS has indicated in the past the Coroner is in on it. Let's remember the Autopsy was dated 9-9-09 That last death photo has very strange numbers indicating DATE... It looked like 8-25-2009 (check the background of the DATES) http://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM (http://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM) I think the date thing was MADE to draw attention. THERE ARE THREE 9'S. The "six" is a turned upside down 9! 999 is a hoax number. I believe this photo & Autopsy report are connected. Perhaps it's a good time to go back and re-read some stuff:
TS:Introduction for Update #4 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502)
This update is about 777, 9-9-09, and the highly planned timing of the hoax. This is the same subject, with much more detail, that I posted on the original MJHD with the username STUDY (posted on 9-7-09). That was my very first post; and many wondered where I came from all of a sudden, where I got the information from, and whether I was MJ himself—or at least someone very close to MJ.
Now, half of a year later, I am going to give far more information about the timing of the hoax—including the timing of the autopsy report, finalized on 9-9-09; this report came out one day after my Update #3 {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=5024&p=78302}, which stated clearly that my next update (#4) would be about 9-9-09.
For the sake of new hoax believers, or non-hoax believers (murder theory advocates, etc): I designed this update so that you can follow most everything, without reading any of the previous TIAI posts. Therefore, a few things are repeated here that were already covered in my previous posts.
TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof of Hoax, Not Murder
4-7. The Red Shirt & “777”
4-8. Numbers 4 Evil & Numbers 4 Good
4-9. Why Does 7 Represent Perfection?
4-10. Rounding: Down, Nearest Whole, and Up
4-11. 77 & 7 Days From the “Death”, & “Burial” to the “Resurrection”
4-12. Number 9 Represents Regeneration (Resurrection)
4-13. MJ “1998” Autographs
4-14. The Autograph on “Dangerous”
4-15. MJ “Resurrection” Before “Return”
4-16. Autopsy Report “9-9-09, Date Finalized”
4-17. “This Is It” Movie Poster on 9-9-09
4-18. Jermaine and La Toya Supported 9-9-09
4-19. Stock Market Bottom on 3-6: 666!
4-20 The Idiot-Maker Rally Started on 3-9
4-21. 777 + 999 = 1776; Greatest Demonstration for Freedom
Post by: fordtocarr on October 14, 2011, 11:19:18 AM
My thoughts about his hoax change as do all of us as we learn more and more. At this point, with all the coverage, my questions are about finances. I DO think there must NOT have been a body, which is for all the reasons Souza states. But, I feel that by saying that, that pretty much everyone must be in on this. I know it can be argued, but if a body, then the bodyguards, Murray, the emts, cops, hosp professionals, coroners must have seen it, and if NOT, then, no body. So, if no body, this must be, to me, simply a hoax. I'd like to think sting, because of the financing. From the beginning, money..paying people would have to be involved. The emts, cops. Unless they are actors...or acting, which still means payments. Then that memorial would've cost a LOT. True, some has been paid for...but, don't we think the state, city, would want reembursed??? There were vehicles, sets, lighting...geez it goes on and on.
There are script writers, professionals to write up autopsies...legal papers..and all the costs or courtrooms, attorneys, all the witnesses, the judge and jurys TIME! BUT, what gets me the MOST, is all the coverage from the media this is getting. To me, either the network COVERING this trial 24/7 is in on what is happening, or they'd be up in arms after the hoax is over, because they report actual crimes, although in a tabloid way. And the sponsors, commercial time buying space for the time. I can't see how Michael, no matter how wealthy could pay all these people. So, I tend to think sting, but still, how could it be a sting, if all these people know what's going on because of no body? And if they don't know...then I feel there must be a body.
So I think, no sting..no body..just HOAX. A movie. Grand movie..Oscar worthy. Then again, I'm back to how the hell do these people get paid for all this??? And what about reprocussious down the road if this turns out to be just a hoax planned for years. But, also, by this simply being a movie, there'd be people who'd know he's alive and I can't believe no one would've ratted him out...
I believe it WILL be a movie no matter the outcome...but, I just cannot understand how this is all being paid for if a not a sting, and if a sting, how it could be without a body.
Post by: paula-c on October 14, 2011, 11:19:45 AM
You know on second thought, this is a never-ending, un-winnable debate. Most aren't going to really believe until MJ moonwalks across the courtroom. And some won't even believe then.
Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.
Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.
(http://blogs.periodistadigital.com/imgs/20081209/television-cabeza.jpg) :lol:
Post by: Sarahli on October 14, 2011, 12:45:43 PM
Could the Sting be also against some doctors that have "treated" Michael? I say that because I was wondering again about what Michael is trying to show us with the trial. For the moment I see that Murray is in very bad waters, I don't see how it is possible to not find him guilty. He made colossal "mistakes", so he is responsible. With that in mind it is possible that one of the purposes of this trial could be not to show us that an innocent man can be found guilty but the exact opposite? That he is in fact guilty of gross negligence. This would then fit in with the sting theory to expose the doctor/doctors who did this to Michael.I wanted to add some more thoughts to this theory. Concerning the autopsy picture my opinion is that a dummy was used, like the one for the ambulance picture with bits of Photoshop magic of course. Dummies can be flexible which fits with what La Toya said about being able to bend the body and which could explain the body moving in the helicopter ride lol. It's also possible to close/open the eyes of a dummy, hence why they're closed in the ambulance and why Jermaine has been able to open them at the hospital.
I am thinking of the pictures we've been shown for example, maybe that some of them represent the truth of past events? And Michael is trying to show us what happened to him years ago like a sort of documentary. It's a kind of re-enactment of HIStory.
Coming back to the Sting, it could very well be directed at those doctors. God, they should feel threatened right now after having seen these pictures. :evil:
Several doctors have been mentioned already during the trial, and Arnold Klein is one of them. What makes me think the Sting could be directed at him for example is that he was Michael's main doctor and is NOT on the witness list??? Why? It does not make any sense at all given the "theme" discussed in the trial. So I'm of the opinion that this fact, to not have included Klein in the witness list, is a BIG hint as to whom the sting is directed at. Remember as well the statements that surrounded Klein after Michael's "death"; the gay garbage and the children conception. I will (safely?) assume that Michael would never include this in the Hoax. And don't forget Back's post about Klein that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Of course it would make the FBI involved.
I just want to make clear that in this theory Murray is in on it, helping Michael actually BUT he is playing, portraying doctor(s) who may have acted in the same way with Michael. So Murray is actually a part of the sting and why not an FBI agent himself. Who knows.
Concerning the FBI I only see all this being possible with them being involved (key people in key places). I don't think it's possible to fake your death on such a grand scale without their help. Of course they would get involved only if a sting operation is attached to the Hoax, they wouldn't if it was just for a reality movie. Also it would make it easier for the doctors, coroner et al to be involved because they would just cooperate without asking too much questions. So my opinion is that most of the doctors and the coroner are in on it.
Post by: LunaCielo on October 14, 2011, 01:00:01 PM
To Leave a corpse on a stretcher with bandages and tubing to the nose does not seem "professional."
In the first picture is not clear where the feet are finished ...
The face would be swollen according to the testimony of family members so that they would justified the fact of not exposing the body it in the coffin.
According to the testimony of the first rescuers looked like an old Michael, a skeletal body.
It does not seem !
The body could be photoshoppato.
Or it could be a dummy.
Michael Jackson is unpredictable!
In any case, Michael Jackson is not the "corpse body"!
moonwalk_/
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 14, 2011, 01:39:56 PM
In my opinion, the people who think Murray tried to kill Mike and he escaped at the last minute and quickly set up this hoax, are unable to see the work that was put in this and how brilliant it is. I agree with PureLove, that would mean underestimating Michael BIG TIME. This is HUGE.
Souza, first of all I am not people. you read my post you can simply say all4loveandbelieve.. secondly I said it was a theory.. and i also said it did not kind of made sense. I did not say I believe in what I wrote.. I do see the work and how brilliant it is.. Your ideas may not be so accurate either and I never put you down. This is the 3rd time you and dissing me and I do not like it.. Like i told you before, you can tell a person anything you want and it is the way you say it.. You could have rephrased it differently and I wouldn't have taken it badly.. If I am telling you this it is not to make you feel bad, but I am an honest person and respectful person, and this needed to be said..
Post by: Grace on October 14, 2011, 01:41:10 PM
One of the main themes in this journey is
"leaving abandoned, neglect, disrespect, missing support, oblivion, not being at the place at the moment when help was needed, when somebody entrusted and helpless relied on you"
in combination with
"family, children --> future"
and
"an authority in charge and duty".
Some coming from an ethical standpoint do judge such a situation not as an involuntary manslaughter but consider calling it murder.
Now making the loop back from
"it is murder" when an "authority in charge and duty" "does neglect, forget and disrespect" "helpless, entrusted persons relying on authority's help" ...
does this sound familiar as a situation we all know, witnessed and were told it was another one's fault and / or evil mission?
How come we put a single person on trial because he was involved in a situation with one VIP person, yet forget about questioning and putting those sitting in positions we elected them into on a pillory when they continue to neglect, forget and disrespect the many entrusted persons relying on them?
I am thinking of Haiti, the Gulf spill, New Orleans, and numerous other occasions when help was needed badly and was not provided in time, in quality, in quantity, in the right and appropriate way. Not to speak of 9II when people chose rather to jump to death and not wait for the fire. Not to speak of the ongoing murder of children in Africa due to financial market gamblers speculating on food prices. Not to speak of John Doe and his family suffering from financial crisis (to the benefit of only a few), unemployment, poisoned food, deprivation of civil rights and future perspectives.
In the Middle Ages, a baker delivering breads that were too small was put on a pillory, a thief lost his hand and somebody who poisoned a spring was killed. I am not saying that this was right. But a community then would not accept being deprived of their fundamental needs and rights and the consequent punishment rose attention to commonly shared values.
These days, commonly shared values are diminishing to the same degree as soap operas, sit-ins and reality show are getting babies like mice and people's representatives are getting openly bought by lobbyists.
This trial is not only about Michael Jackson as a person.
This is performance art in a dimension that was never seen on earth before.
Michael has dedicated himself to perform as a sacrificial lamb in order to unveil the truth about our reality, hypocrisy and virulent gamblers.
These are indeed "pictures at an exhibition".
Michael in a fish bowl, naked on a table, dissected not by the coroner but by everybody to everybody's likings hoping to ignite evolving processes and setting sparkles of light of truths to be discovered and explored.
There's not one day that I don't stand amazed, Michael.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 14, 2011, 01:43:12 PM
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response.
Post by: PureLove on October 14, 2011, 02:54:30 PM
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response.
I wasn't talking ONLY about you all4love but I was referring to everyone on the forum who thinks that Murray was trying to kill Michael. You are NOT the only one who is writing about this "theory". You can believe that when I want to adress someone directly, I quote that person's post. And still you are not the only one who wrote about that theory on this thread. So, instead of mentioning everyone one by one, I preferred to use "people" for all of them. This is my choice. And yes, it is still my opinion that if people is still thinking about a possibility of this theory, Murray was trying to kill Michael but he escaped, they learned NOTHING from this hoax. If I need to say something personally to you, I see you making a step forward, you seem to start understanding the reasons of the hoax but then suddenly you make 10 steps backwards, forget about it all and start thinking that this is a short term plan and Michael escaped from Murray etc. Don't do this. Keep on moving forward not backward. Just a friendly advice from me to you.
Post by: jono on October 14, 2011, 03:12:58 PM
This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHpK5lk5C0M&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Post by: PureLove on October 14, 2011, 03:13:25 PM
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/10/12/alg_jackson_autopsy.jpg)
But in the next pictures, the belly button is there, it is more visible.
(http://s1.proxy03.twitpic.com/photos/large/421479724.jpg)
And then we had this article:
Quote
Michael Jackson Was 'A Bit Of An Alien'
Rashida Jones - the daughter of music producer Quincy Jones - has revealed she has many fond memories of Michael Jackson but accepts he was a ''bit of an alien'' to most people.
Michael Jackson was "an alien", according to Quincy Jones' daughter Rashida Jones. ...
You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20871.0.html
This brought my mind about the FAKE alien autopsy. The aliens had no belly buttons.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wL0eR_2vLO4/TW0o23q0qzI/AAAAAAAAEVw/uZdpkyKYa7k/s1600/alien-autopsy1.jpg)
The Story Behind the 'Alien Autopsy' Hoax
Britain's Manchester Evening News (April 6, 2006) termed it a hoax that "fooled the world." Well, not exactly: Skeptical Inquirer magazine was on to the 1995 "Alien Autopsy" film from the outset. But now the reputed creator of the fake extraterrestrial corpse used for the "autopsy" has publicly confessed.
The film—purporting to depict the post mortem of an extraterrestrial who died in a UFO crash at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947—was part of a "documentary" that aired on the Fox television network. Skeptics and many UFOlogists quickly branded the affair a hoax.
Among numerous observations, they noted that the film bore a bogus, non-military codemark, that the injuries sustained by the extraterrestrial were inconsistent with an air crash, and that the person performing the autopsy held the scissors like a tailor rather than a pathologist (who is trained to place his middle or ring finger in the bottom of the scissors hole and use his forefinger to steady the blades).
http://www.livescience.com/742-story-alien-autopsy-hoax.html
You can find many other articles about the alien autopsy hoax on the net. But what I'm trying to say is, Michael's pic without a belly button and just a day after that an article where Quincy Jones' daughter says Michael was an 'alien' can not be a coincidence but it was made on purpose to show us the autopsy is another FAKE, another HOAX within the hoax! It's like saying; Michael's autopsy is just like the alien autopsy which is a HOAX!
Post by: Sarahli on October 14, 2011, 03:44:29 PM
Quote
How come we put a single person on trial because he was involved in a situation with one VIP person, yet forget about questioning and putting those sitting in positions we elected them into on a pillory when they continue to neglect, forget and disrespect the many entrusted persons relying on them?
...
This trial is not only about Michael Jackson as a person.
This is performance art in a dimension that was never seen on earth before.
Michael has dedicated himself to perform as a sacrificial lamb in order to unveil the truth about our reality, hypocrisy and virulent gamblers.
These are indeed "pictures at an exhibition
/bravo/ I totally agree.
We have heard testimonies from two medical doctors now, a cardiologist and now a sleep specialist. Both have specified and re-emphasized the STANDARD OF CARE for the patient.
The first issue is, that in spite of some experimental research carried out in 2010 on the use of propofol to treat insomnia, no DECENT doctor would administer propofol in a home setting single handedly, without the use of accurate monitoring and resuscitation equipment.
Dr Klein’s name has been mentioned several times yesterday along with a few other doctors (Dr Adams, Dr Metzer..), and it has also been insinuated that Michael was taught how to self administer by German doctors. It’s being suggested that other doctors have administered propofol to Michael before. One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
When doctors forget the Hippocratic Oath that they have sworn to keep and are blinded by their greed for $$$$$, what happens to the vulnerable patient who has entrusted him/herself into their care?
However it seems that these doctors have sold their souls to the devil for money, and tossed the Oath out of the window and so lack personal integrity.
There are a few versions of the Hippocratic Oath which you can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
Here is the modern version:
Quote
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
(Murray did NOT call 911 when he clearly needed the help of the paramedics)
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
(It seems some doctors would prefer to cultivate a drug dependency, and therefore have no intention of curing, to ensure that the $$$$ keep rolling in.) :x
I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
A patient comes to a doctor vulnerable and to take advantage of their predicament for greed of money and personal gain is pure evil. In keeping the patient “sick”, these doctors not only drain the life of their patients but also their money. So I'm of the opinion that these very detailed testimonies tie in with the purpose of the sting and shows us against whom it is directed at. Murray portrays perfectly that kind of doctors so far.
ps: Dr Nader Kamangar has officially renamed Dr Murray, Dr “Merry” LOL!!! I know it’s just the pronunciation but it’s funny! :lol: Dr Merry will probably have a “Merry” Christmas because he is NOT guilty! Or perhaps he is “Merry” because he drinks a lot of wine... suspicious// .. as long as he doesn’t drink propofol!! :roll:
Merry Christmas in advance to Dr WhoDunnit!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5166/5254879692_d306e726ac.jpg)
"Exterrrrrrmiinaaaate"
:lol:
Post by: jono on October 14, 2011, 03:53:06 PM
Purelove I was coming here to make a comment and then noticed your post. Well said!
So I don't have to make two post I'll just post my thoughts here:
Sorry I don't mean to come out harsh but this is something I stayed up all night thinking about. By all means I am ready for the bashing and degrading comments that I am sure are to come but before people start typing just think about it for a few minutes.
People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see.
To take it a step further we would then need to just accept that all of the inconsistencies that we have seen in the last 2 years (too many to count) and everyone who has opened up their mouth needs to see a doctor about memory loss because they can't remember what they have said from one interview to another.
To take it one step further, Back, TS and Front then all have more then enough time on their hands and should seek immediate mental help for all of the post that they have done which in turn would mean that we too need to seek mental help because of the chain reaction. Meaning TS or Front post on this board and then the research starts and all of the connections that can be made are just the draw of luck. If that is truly the case then there is a whole lot of luck in the air and I should take a chance at playing the lottery.
Is it that "coincidental" that Michael had this in the making for years and it just so happens that Murray comes along to kill him (hired or not) and everything just happens to line up with everything Michael had been working on to begin with? If we think that Murray was trying (again hired or not) to kill Michael and he found out and was able to escape then the sentence before has no standing and it again was just a coincidence that everything in the past connects and we should all quit and call it a day.
With that being said, I feel better thank you for letting me get that out.
LOL! lolol/ I applaud you! /bravo/
This is how I feel: party/
LOVE YOU ALL! bearhug
Post by: scorpionchik on October 14, 2011, 04:13:40 PM
I have a hard time to believe that the CM defense team wasting time in the court defending their client who is in hoax and did not commit involuntary manslaughter. Also I won't believe that court is a circus. Maybe it looks like it from the far, but not form what I see .
OK, tell me now, what and who is a target in this hoax? What is going to happen in the scenario you believe in, who and what is going to be exposed?
Do you have an answer, I'll take it, give me reasonable fact, not just generalized "this is huge". OK, it is huge....what is it?
I think the hoax is about to reveal who wanted to kill Michael for years and related reasons. For that matter, we have to have an object who tried to commit the act,and that is Conrad Murray. I don't get how you don't see this obvious fact.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 14, 2011, 04:24:33 PM
Now, if this were a sting, these people could work for the gov...along with the sting. (but that body prob exists with this theory) Those patients are very well spoken and without accents. They are suppose to be people without "means"...to me when I saw them their voices didn't match their persona.
Post by: PureLove on October 14, 2011, 04:40:48 PM
@ Purelove and Souza I think you meant to comment on my post. Well, first, I did not say MJ planned hoax last minute, if you read to the end, I said since MJ carefully planned hoax , he could think of using real corpse to be taken to UCLA, that has vitiligo and MJ look.
I have a hard time to believe that the CM defense team wasting time in the court defending their client who is in hoax and did not commit involuntary manslaughter. Also I won't believe that court is a circus. Maybe it looks like it from the far, but not form what I see .
OK, tell me now, what and who is a target in this hoax? What is going to happen in the scenario you believe in, who and what is going to be exposed?
Do you have an answer, I'll take it, give me reasonable fact, not just generalized "this is huge". OK, it is huge....what is it?
I think the hoax is about to reveal who wanted to kill Michael for years and related reasons. For that matter, we have to have an object who tried to commit the act,and that is Conrad Murray. I don't get how you don't see this obvious fact.
No. My post wasn't directed at you Scorpion. Actually I must have missed reading your post. I will be going back and reading it.
Post by: curls on October 14, 2011, 04:44:20 PM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 14, 2011, 04:49:12 PM
Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.
Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response.
I wasn't talking ONLY about you all4love but I was referring to everyone on the forum who thinks that Murray was trying to kill Michael. You are NOT the only one who is writing about this "theory". You can believe that when I want to adress someone directly, I quote that person's post. And still you are not the only one who wrote about that theory on this thread. So, instead of mentioning everyone one by one, I preferred to use "people" for all of them. This is my choice. And yes, it is still my opinion that if people is still thinking about a possibility of this theory, Murray was trying to kill Michael but he escaped, they learned NOTHING from this hoax. If I need to say something personally to you, I see you making a step forward, you seem to start understanding the reasons of the hoax but then suddenly you make 10 steps backwards, forget about it all and start thinking that this is a short term plan and Michael escaped from Murray etc. Don't do this. Keep on moving forward not backward. Just a friendly advice from me to you.
THANK YOU DEAR. I UNDERSTOOD. LIKE I SAID I WAS JUST THINKING ALL POSSIBILITES. I ADMIT WHEN I AM WRONG, I AM WRONG. WE SHALL SEE WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT. NO HARD FEELINGS. I HAD A HARD DAY TODAY..
Post by: PureLove on October 14, 2011, 04:49:21 PM
Probably off topic: I think it was PureLove who wrote about the Roswell alien without the belly button. He also had a 'leg wound', which I remember my kids being most interested in, years ago when it was talked about on TV. Just an interesting coincidence!
Yes, that is another "coincidence". Thank you for the input curls. ;)
Post by: BeTheChange on October 14, 2011, 04:53:12 PM
I also believe that 'doctors' could be a possible 'target' (IF there is a 'sting' or several going on). I've posted about why I think so before....but the main point being that there is widespread addiction to prescription drugs and a HUGE reason for this is through doctors' prescriptions. This could be personal to Mike (I'm sure he's known a few people who were addicted and some who may even have died due to prescription drugs)...and it would also be an FBI and/or DEA 'interest.'
One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
If doctors are a 'target'...then it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that pharmacies are as well. I wrote about this awhile back:
Pharmacies - if docs are the 'pushers'...the pharmacies are 'suppliers'. I have to go through a whole ID process to get some cough medicine at the pharmacy. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substance (or at least one that should raise eyebrows coming from a cardiologist) and sent it the doc's girlfriend's place lol. Whether they knowingly knew things were shady or whether they were just too stupid to follow up on the doc and the address....they are still guitly of not fulfilling their duty to society at minimum...an accomplice to a homicide at most.
We've seen a few things come up in court that would support a possible 'sting' on doctors. Likewise, there have been 2 pharmacies mentioned in court that could also support them being a 'target' as well (Applied Pharmacy - Lopez's testimony...and Mickey's Finn Pharmacy was also mentioned but not elaborated on...but we did learn that there is a 'link' between this pharmacy and Klein).
For all we know, the FBI/DEA could've been 'surveilling' all the docs and pharmacies mentioned in the trial prior to 2009...and I tend to believe the 'foundation' of this sting (if there is one) started many years ago. If true, then I also think that Murray (acting under the direction of the FBI) ordered all that propofol from Applied simply to see if he could and if they would ship it to wherever he wanted. That may have been the 'bait'....and if true, then Applied fell for it hook, line and sinker. It will be interesting to learn more about Mickey's Finn Pharmacy and their 'role' in all this...especially their connection to Klein. Perhaps we will once things start to unravel.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 14, 2011, 06:32:23 PM
Quote
Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Kofffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...
As MJOM mentioned, great point! And great movie reference ;) .
Kaufman was a huge prankster, or should I say hoaxer. His feud with Jerry Lawler, wrestling women, his 'marriage' and newfound faith in Jesus (yea right Andy lol), his dry humor, his being funny without being funny. He was the guy who got sheer joy out of making people feel very uncomfortable. I love him for that! I have to say, Andy Kaufman is legend and one of my favorites:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p0sr2BejUk[/youtube]
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 14, 2011, 06:36:14 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 14, 2011, 06:41:13 PM
I'm not fully understanding why 'corpse' must be african american with vitiligo and nose job. If coroner is in on the hoax (which I believe) then they could've taken a pic of a white man's body. This is why you can't recognize the face. in most autopsy pics I have seen, the body is completely supine with spine aligned (that rhymed lol). In Mike's autopsy pic, the head is tilted to the right. If someone would take a pic for evidence, wouldn't they show the most important part of the body? THE FACE!!!
But if the coroner is in on it, then why use a real body at all? That is my point.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 14, 2011, 06:53:09 PM
@Sarahli...good posts about a possible 'sting' on docs.
I also believe that 'doctors' could be a possible 'target' (IF there is a 'sting' or several going on). I've posted about why I think so before....but the main point being that there is widespread addiction to prescription drugs and a HUGE reason for this is through doctors' prescriptions. This could be personal to Mike (I'm sure he's known a few people who were addicted and some who may even have died due to prescription drugs)...and it would also be an FBI and/or DEA 'interest.'
One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
If doctors are a 'target'...then it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that pharmacies are as well. I wrote about this awhile back:
Guys, I really don't uhnderstand what makes you believe that there is a sting operation o expose doctors and pharmacies. FBI is not scared of them to do open investigation. There are already enough facts and spread out speeches all over the media that doctors keep fueling star patients with drugs. Why sting operation?
Sting operation means that undercover FBI, CIA agent pretends he/she is a patient who needs to sleep and asks doctors for the drug to see what they do to catch them on the crime. There is no need to do sting, everything is already exposed. Sting operation performed only when something is difficult to prove, too dangerous, or has involved high profile/difficult to catch criminals.
Doctors, on the other hand, openly argue that powerful and rich patients make them to prescribe those medication and have some degree of responsibility. We are not talking here about illegal substance drugs prescribed by doctors to engage in sting operation.
The only sting I can think of can be to find out who was behind the plan to kill Michael IMO.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on October 14, 2011, 07:01:50 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 14, 2011, 07:17:31 PM
Guys, I really don't uhnderstand what makes you believe that there is a sting operation o expose doctors and pharmacies. FBI is not scared of them to do open investigation. There are already enough facts and spread out speeches all over the media that doctors keep fueling star patients with drugs. Why sting operation?
Sting operation means that undercover FBI, CIA agent pretends he/she is a patient who needs to sleep and asks doctors for the drug to see what they do to catch them on the crime. There is no need to do sting, everything is already exposed. Sting operation performed only when something is difficult to prove, too dangerous, or has involved high profile/difficult to catch criminals.
Doctors, on the other hand, openly argue that powerful and rich patients make them to prescribe those medication and have some degree of responsibility. We are not talking here about illegal substance drugs prescribed by doctors to engage in sting operation.
The only sting I can think of can be to find out who was behind the plan to kill Michael IMO.
For me there are a couple of reason I think this is a sting. One is the clues. Why would Michael be leaving clues if he were just hoaxing period and will come back in the end? Wouldn't the purpose be to fool everyone? Also, I think like I keep saying, SOMEONE has to be covering the financial end of all this and the legalities of it.
Also, as I've said before, Michael could've chosen ANY format to have the hoax plot. He could've had the trial about attempted murder instead of homicide or about ..anything. But, he picked the MEDICAL field, and it is intense. There has to be a hell of a lot of investigators to pull this off. Maybe it's not a sting about the entire celeb/doc medical stuff. Maybe it's simply more about Michael himself and the need to be controlled by..who knows who's really behind the entire thing. Maybe he's had doctors trying to keep him drugged along to control him for his music..he was supposedly worried about that.
Anyhow, Scorpionchik, what is your alternative to no sting if you believe it's a hoax? Do you just think it's a movie/hoax? I can't believe it could all be funded by Michael, or entirely be legal in EVERY detail. I am interested in your theory :)
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 14, 2011, 07:27:20 PM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362980.html#msg362980Ok so Im_convinced, what exactly is your body theory at this point then? You've stated here recently what it is NOT (not terminal patient, not frozen), but I'm not clear on what exactly it IS.
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
I don't get it either...QuoteThey had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
Anyways, let's assume it was kept in a fridge, fine by me because the pathologist mentioned that too. A body will go smell rotten after two days, regardless of that fridge. It slows down, it does not stop. As soon as it is placed in a hot room, decomp/rigor sets in very quickly. And will show even more signs of death than a body that was recently frozen.
I still have not heard a plausible motive for a body either and with that refridgerated body, it still has to be a quite fresh corpse. What is the chance that a person would die around that day that looks so much like Mike that a coroner could be fooled. Mike WAS allegedly identified by his DL, which means that if the coroner is not in on it, the DL had to match the corpse. Oh, and besides looking like him, it needed to have vitiligo as well.
Sorry, but I rest my case. The coroner is in on it, there is no need for an autopsy on a random corpse. There is also no reason for a real corpse for the rest of the witnesses. You either don't get what I mean, or I don't get you, but this is going in circles. Show me one very good reason for a corpse and I will reconsider, but so far you did not give me one.
Quote
@bec-In this quote of mine above I stated that my comment to Souza is my theory of an already dead corpse/cadaver used in the hoax. IF you had clicked on the link that I provided in the quote you would have been taken to my theory and therefore would not have to ask me what my theory is. It is looking like you haven't clicked on the link.
I NEVER have stated that my theory included a terminally ill person. In the comment you quoted I said in my next comment I am reposting a comment I had made to you. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362783.html#msg362783
In that next comment is my theory of an already dead corpse/cadaver and I provided evidence of what is realistically possible to do to a corpse/cadaver to use it in the hoax. I provided links to reference material that comes from medical professionals in their fields of expertise. The pdf file from the Coroner Workshop has info on how they preserve a body in it's natural state. That is not embalming they do not embalm a corpse/cadaver that is going to be used for study. There is links to info of how the corpse/cadaver is kept refrigerated not frozen to prevent decomp and allows the corpse/cadaver to be used for up to 10 hrs a day and it can be stored up to 6 months if needed. I provide links to evidence so people can read the info and not just take it for granted that I am telling the truth.
Oh, and in addition to looking like Mike and having vitiligo, the body also had to have a slim body, around 50 years old, african american, with nose job done and died of acute propofol intoxication, alongside other features I probably missed.@Souza-I see that you did go to the link that has my theory in it because you qouted some of it but not the part that explains the rest of the way that they could have found a suitable corpse/cadaver. Here is the rest that was needed:
I believe a lot, but that would be too much of a coincidence.
Quote
They had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.With as many deaths that occur especially in LA there is alot of corpse/cadavers to choose from and it is possible to get one that resembles MJ, even his age and vitiligo. How would a coroner figure out someone's ethnicity IF it was not necessary to do so. Even though MJ is a black man his skin has appeared to be white for many years. The coroner is working on a corpse/cadaver that has been identified as MJ so he would not need to figure out whether the corpse/cadaver was in fact a black man. Those kind of tests go beyond a standard autopsy.
They had enough time to find a suitable corpse to match almost his known illness of vitiligo. They couldn't make everything perfect because some absent things from the body were needed to provide suspicion it wasn't MJ.
And they'd somehow have to figure out a legal loophole to display it in court as "Michael Jackson"'s body AND make it look enough like him to fool the entire viewing public.@bec-Legal loopholes need not to be worried about by me because I believe the FBI is helping MJ so therefore they have influence for that part. The sting also takes care of that. You definetly did not click the link that goes to my theory and IF you did you would have read the links that debunk the idea that an endotracheal tube can not be inserted into a corpse/cadaver. I will make it easy for you and include 2 links that go to info on being able to intubate a corpse/cadaver.
There's that matter of a endotracheal tube being inserted into a body in rigor as well. Thawed out=rigor. That's been proven long ago.
Quote
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/103/5/1205.full
It is possible to intubate a cadaver. Anesthesia students use cadavers to practice. I also have found evidence that suggests paramedics are trained to intubate on a combination of manikins and cadavers. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1746734
Post by: scorpionchik on October 14, 2011, 07:32:53 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 14, 2011, 07:33:59 PM
We are two weeks in to the trial....and most likely, have two weeks left. Has there been any 'light' shed on who was trying to kill Mike other than Murray? None that I have been able to see. But then again, the defense hasn't presented their case yet. The point is...we have no clue if there even is a 'sting' and if there is one, who the 'targets' are. Some of us like to look at all possibilities and, at this point anyway, doctors and pharmacies are just as much possible a 'target' as those who were supposedly trying to kill Mike because nothing is clear yet.
The point you raise about stings occuring when something is difficult to prove is very true and it would also fit in with doctors being a 'target'. Doctors are licensed to order drugs...i.e. it is not illegal for them to do so. Murray purchasing the propofol wasn't illegal per se....it became a problem because of what he was using it for, how he was using it, and where he was using it. The 'paper trail', so to speak, for 'catching' most doctors engaging in corrupt activities ends at the prescription or purchase point. And the problem with that is that they have not committed any wrongdoing at that point since they are legally entitled to prescribe, order and purchase drugs. Whatever happens beyond that point takes place behind closed doors....and anything done behind closed doors is very difficult to prove.
None of us are saying that docs and pharmacies ARE the sting 'targets'...we're just looking at the different possibilities and engaging in discussion.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 14, 2011, 08:41:48 PM
I have given more than one reason why a corpse/cadaver would be needed and for who. My list could never get specific and name names because there is most likely never going to be full disclosure of who the targets are/were and who they caught with the sting. I pointed out why the pics needed to be shown and that was because of the need for a proof of death for those who may still be looking to take MJ out. The same way we figured out MJ is still alive and we have posted our evidence here is also a way that MJ's enemies could have easily found out and have been reading here.
That is not to say that what we are doing is exposing MJ to danger because as difficult as it is to prove to non-believers about the hoax and as difficult as it is for me to prove to others my theories, it will be difficult for his enemies to believe because there is SO much CONtroversy and CONtradictions. Notice CON is in both words. This is a great CON. Showing that pic to the public is an eye catching SHOCK and makes people question why. It also is a high drama tactic.
That thing about TS saying people are being tested and his explanation is below in regards to Murray, I am adding some points onto that. I have sat in on the chat everyday watching the trial, reading the chat and what I have noticed is alot of pre-judge-ish comments regarding the witnesses looks.
Alot of comments are about the DA being goodlooking, the Dr. dude in the yellow tie being handsome, and I think that is being pre-judge-ish towards those people and some are totally dismissing ideas and info from these people who are not very goodlooking. The trial isn't over and comments are being made without having the whole picture to think about. Theories being presented are different than comments about people's looks.
I also want to point out that we are still being tested and as TS said the best way to test people is when they don't know because they act more natural. I made a comment in chat asking IF anyone ever thought that MJ or his fam could be reading here and even participating under anons or screen names to test us.
I believe MJ and his fam would antagonize us to see how we react. Then you can also add in the fact that Front made a post about embracing non-believers. Seems like I wasn't the only one who took notice at the recent behavior of believers. I even gave an example of how I was treated by believers in chat when they thought I was from another planet. 8-) Of course this is my opinion and not fact.
Another thing about being tested in your natural state is the employees of certain official departments and they will be tested on their competence with out them knowing it. Ed Winters was at the house with E. Fleak and so was Detective Smith. Lets say Ed Winters is testing her for competence, this is very real and happens alot in certain fields of professions. Some people get sloppy over time or burned out in certain jobs and they have to be tested to prevent bad things from happening. This is no different than businesses using secret shoppers to test customer service. Something to think about when deciding who are the key people involved in certain positions and why they are not testifying. ;) I am posting comments as reminders on some of the topics that are being talked about now.
TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314346.html#msg314346
Quote from: ignisaeternus@ I'm convinced..I agree with this.QuoteAlso that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.Quoteignisaeternus wrote:
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.
All the contradictions are to confuse the enemy. Also IF anything was to happen to Michael now or after the BAM: WE the PUBLIC would be on the case and say HEY what is UP? I also believe this is part of the reason Michael wanted us (death hoax investigators and the non-hoax fans) to be INVOLVED so it gives him more protection. It also makes more people aware of WTF he has been saying for years. His "death" has our ATTENTION! :shock:
The more people looking into it is all the better.
I also don't get why some people find it hard to believe that Michael has INFLUENCE over key people. 8-) Given his HIStory with the police/armies of other nations/countries gaurding him during his concerts or outings. Think about all the traveling he has done, who he has met and been photographed with. 8-)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVRKUGv9iw[/youtube]
Side Note: Kenny did say something about equipment arriving. Maybe that was the fake ambulance? :?
Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14058.msg234443.html#msg234443
Quote
There were also some concerns that I mentioned the concept of people being tested, and some failing the test; it was suggested that MJ would not do this. Well, what about Murray? Don’t you think many people have failed the same basic (prejudice) test—calling him a murderer, even before the preliminary hearing?? Don’t you think that MJ planned this test, to help expose the problems of prejudice and trial by media?
http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832 http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card! :lol:
Speaking of trying to debunk TS: one particular member kept dwelling on my statements about “few” in on the hoax—claiming that there were more than “few”, so this alone proves that TS is a fake see Update 4d, http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194. However, this is just another of many examples of critics not carefully reading what I said. The word “few” is always relative; and in comparison to all the stars in the sky, one thousand is a “few” stars. Taken in context, the “few” that I mentioned was in relation to this statement: “the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. ... only a relatively few people would need to be ‘in on it’” (in 4-36 & 4-38).
I never gave any specific number other than “more than three”; but if you read all my posts, you will find that I myself did mention several specifically involved with the hoax: MJ, family, Conrad, Kenny Ortega, coroner, hospital, FBI, TMZ, etc. And there are many others (friends/celebrities) who may not have a direct role, and yet understand that it’s a hoax (much like us).
TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314370.html#msg314370
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock:). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4 "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations." http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314609.html#msg314609
Quote from: _Anna_Quote from: TS_comments
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.
1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)
2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)
3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
Hi Anna,
I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. When I said "got paid for it", I did not mean FBI agents. In this context, I am arguing against the idea that the FBI are not involved at all. If the FBI are not involved, then what implications are there for LAFD?
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314614.html#msg314614
Quote from: MJhasSpokenI know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314618.html#msg314618
Quote from: 2good2btrueSorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME
TIAI May 1
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.msg327641.html#msg327641
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Sting.jpg)http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg325716.html#msg325716
It’s time for another level. 8-)
We are now at the most important level: who is the focus of The Sting? Keep in mind the possibility that more than one person or entity is the focus.
Most specifically, though, we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation (or part of the investigation). Some have already proposed this possibility, while others have summarily dismissed it. As always, please do not dismiss any theory until it has been thoroughly debunked. And whatever theory you personally believe, try to debunk your own theory; many hoax investigators are still not doing this.
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS :lol: ), etc.
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts.”
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
Although there are endless minor variations within these two main coherent theories, for the purpose of this level we are only examining two basic theories: the court is in on the hoax, or the court is not in on the hoax (other than the defense, and maybe a few other key people). For the sake of discussion, we can refer to these two theories as “hoax court” and “sting court”.
In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used.
Even though level three is still unresolved, yet we can and should start investigating level four (The Sting). Actually, level three and four are closely related—so much so that if we get a clear answer to level four, then level three will probably be easy to resolve (and vice versa).
To be more specific: if it’s hoax court, then there would be little if any need to use a corpse; but if it is sting court, then the corpse theory has a strong case. This would not only reduce the people who would need to be in on it, but it would also allow witnesses to testify truthfully in real court under oath (both witnesses who are in on it, and those who are not).
It has been suggested that this would constitute entrapment; but sting versus entrapment does not depend on using a dummy versus a corpse. It would be possible to use a dummy, and still qualify as entrapment, if the job was done so airtight that nobody could figure it out. On the other hand: it would be possible to use a corpse, and not qualify as entrapment, as long as there are plenty of clues and evidence that MJ is still alive. If the hoax forums can figure out that MJ is alive, when most of the members are not even professional investigators, then what excuse would the LA prosecution have for not figuring it out?
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose. Just bring into this thread discussion and evidence related to the focus of The Sting, and especially whether it is hoax court or sting court.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011)
Good eye! :lol:
Although some have said that this thread is just going in circles, and nothing accomplished, yet there has been some definite progress. There have been strong arguments presented both for and against the corpse theory (with neither side fully convincing the other). But this can be a good thing; we will get a lot more information during the hearings, and some may find it easier to keep the faith with the corpse theory.
On the other hand, I agree with bec and others, that the corpse theory is the least desirable—and would certainly be avoided if there was any other feasible way. Some are very strongly opposed to this idea, while others are not; and although the emotional argument holds a lot of weight on this forum (at least with some), it probably would not hold much if any weight in a court of law—which is the type of evidence we are looking for.
And yes, I did say the fewer the better, not the fewest the best; nevertheless, for the sake of the challenge if nothing else, let’s examine this question from the fewest possible concept (and this is NOT the actual case, but for the purpose of making the point).
What if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, such as a hospice patient on life support: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
But in that case, wouldn’t people realize that it was not MJ? Scientific analysis (such as dental records) would only be done at the coroner; so this is why at least one there would need to be in. As far as visual recognition by others (paramedics, hospital staff, etc): this might not be as big of a problem as you would think. There are several things that would tend to distract people’s attention from the recognition factor: the power of suggestion (others saying that it is MJ), reports of baldness and wigs, and recent plastic surgery, and not very many recent pictures in the news, and the intensity of an emergency situation with a high profile VIP, and other distractions such as the fire alarm, etc (distractions created by the few who are in on it).
We do know that This Scenario at least could have happened with the paramedics, since they reported not recognizing MJ. And if it could happen with the paramedics, then why not at the hospital also? In reality, we know that more are in on it than just Murray and the coroner; nevertheless, this should help to clarify which of the options would require the least number of people to be in on it. Any of the other options (MJ himself, an MJ living double, a dummy, or nothing) would require that ALL of the paramedics be in on it, as well as several at the hospital.
So again, if anyone can debunk the corpse theory, please do. But not with emotional reactions please, only documented evidence. And there were a couple of good comments on the life support patient idea: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=175#p322797 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p323766
See also a similar but slightly different theory: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p324064 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=400#p324431 http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=550#p325518
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 14, 2011, 09:26:19 PM
Warning this is a long post.
I have given more than one reason why a corpse/cadaver would be needed and for who. My list could never get specific and name names because there is most likely never going to be full disclosure of who the targets are/were and who they caught with the sting. I pointed out why the pics needed to be shown and that was because of the need for a proof of death for those who may still be looking to take MJ out. The same way we figured out MJ is still alive and we have posted our evidence here is also a way that MJ's enemies could have easily found out and have been reading here.
That is not to say that what we are doing is exposing MJ to danger because as difficult as it is to prove to non-believers about the hoax and as difficult as it is for me to prove to others my theories, it will be difficult for his enemies to believe because there is SO much CONtroversy and CONtradictions. Notice CON is in both words. This is a great CON. Showing that pic to the public is an eye catching SHOCK and makes people question why. It also is a high drama tactic.
That thing about TS saying people are being tested and his explanation is below in regards to Murray, I am adding some points onto that. I have sat in chat everyday watching the trial, reading the chat and what I have noticed is alot of pre-judge-ish comments regarding the witnesses looks.
Alot of comments are about the DA being goodlooking, the Dr. dude in the yellow tie being handsome, and I think that is being pre-judge-ish towards those people and some are totally dismissing ideas and info from these people who are not very goodlooking. The trial isn't over and comments are being made without having the whole picture to think about.
I also want to point out that we are still being tested and as TS said the best way to test people is when they don't know because they act more natural. I made a comment in chat asking IF anyone ever thought that MJ or his fam could be reading here and even participating under anons or screen names to test us.
I believe MJ and his fam would antagonize us to see how we react. Then you can also add in the fact that Front made a post about embracing non-believers. Seems like I wasn't the only one who took notice at the recent behavior of believers. I even gave an example of how I was treated by believers in chat when they thought I was from another planet. 8-) Of course this is my opinion and not fact.
Another thing about being tested in your natural state is the employees of certain official departments and they will be tested on their competence with out them knowing it. Ed Winters was at the house with E. Fleaks and so was Detective Smith. Lets say Ed Winters is testing her for competence, this is very real and happens alot in certain fields of professions. Some people get sloppy over time or burned out in certain jobs and they have to be tested to prevent bad things from happening. This is no different than businesses using secret shoppers to test customer service. Something to think about when deciding who are the key people involved in certain positions and why they are not testifying. ;) I am posting comments as reminders on some of the topics that are being talked about now.
TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314346.html#msg314346 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314346.html#msg314346)Quote from: ignisaeternus@ I'm convinced..I agree with this.QuoteAlso that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.Quoteignisaeternus wrote:
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.
All the contradictions are to confuse the enemy. Also IF anything was to happen to Michael now or after the BAM: WE the PUBLIC would be on the case and say HEY what is UP? I also believe this is part of the reason Michael wanted us (death hoax investigators and the non-hoax fans) to be INVOLVED so it gives him more protection. It also makes more people aware of WTF he has been saying for years. His "death" has our ATTENTION! :shock:
The more people looking into it is all the better.
I also don't get why some people find it hard to believe that Michael has INFLUENCE over key people. 8-) Given his HIStory with the police/armies of other nations/countries gaurding him during his concerts or outings. Think about all the traveling he has done, who he has met and been photographed with. 8-)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVRKUGv9iw[/youtube]
Side Note: Kenny did say something about equipment arriving. Maybe that was the fake ambulance? :?
Silencing the Critics, And $999 REwarD??? You bET
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14058.msg234443.html#msg234443 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,14058.msg234443.html#msg234443)QuoteThere were also some concerns that I mentioned the concept of people being tested, and some failing the test; it was suggested that MJ would not do this. Well, what about Murray? Don’t you think many people have failed the same basic (prejudice) test—calling him a murderer, even before the preliminary hearing?? Don’t you think that MJ planned this test, to help expose the problems of prejudice and trial by media?
http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832 (http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187832) http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841 (http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11198#p187841)
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card! :lol:
Speaking of trying to debunk TS: one particular member kept dwelling on my statements about “few” in on the hoax—claiming that there were more than “few”, so this alone proves that TS is a fake see Update 4d, http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194 (http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194). However, this is just another of many examples of critics not carefully reading what I said. The word “few” is always relative; and in comparison to all the stars in the sky, one thousand is a “few” stars. Taken in context, the “few” that I mentioned was in relation to this statement: “the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. ... only a relatively few people would need to be ‘in on it’” (in 4-36 & 4-38).
I never gave any specific number other than “more than three”; but if you read all my posts, you will find that I myself did mention several specifically involved with the hoax: MJ, family, Conrad, Kenny Ortega, coroner, hospital, FBI, TMZ, etc. And there are many others (friends/celebrities) who may not have a direct role, and yet understand that it’s a hoax (much like us).
TIAI March 9
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314370.html#msg314370 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314370.html#msg314370)
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php).
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi)
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4) "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations." http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314609.html#msg314609 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314609.html#msg314609)Quote from: _Anna_Quote from: TS_comments
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.
1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)
2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)
3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
Hi Anna,
I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. When I said "got paid for it", I did not mean FBI agents. In this context, I am arguing against the idea that the FBI are not involved at all. If the FBI are not involved, then what implications are there for LAFD?
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314614.html#msg314614 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314614.html#msg314614)Quote from: MJhasSpokenI know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314618.html#msg314618 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18185.msg314618.html#msg314618)Quote from: 2good2btrueSorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME)
TIAI May 1
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.msg327641.html#msg327641 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18964.msg327641.html#msg327641)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Sting.jpg)
It’s time for another level. 8-)
We are now at the most important level: who is the focus of The Sting? Keep in mind the possibility that more than one person or entity is the focus.
Most specifically, though, we need to investigate whether the entire court is in on the hoax, or could the court itself be the focus of the FBI investigation (or part of the investigation). Some have already proposed this possibility, while others have summarily dismissed it. As always, please do not dismiss any theory until it has been thoroughly debunked. And whatever theory you personally believe, try to debunk your own theory; many hoax investigators are still not doing this.
In favor of the court sting theory, let me point out a few things. Some say that the court did the right thing back in the 2005 acquittal, so why would it be investigated? The reality is that the defense and jury did the right thing, but what about the prosecution? We already know about Aphrodite’s testimony, and Tom Sneddon (TS :lol: ), etc.
We also know that for years the FBI investigated MJ, and the pedophile claim; but they found nothing against MJ. Could it be that in the process of this investigation, the FBI found evidence of corruption in the LA prosecution and the MJ trial? Could it be that as a result, the FBI in cooperation with MJ decided to make the LA court system the focus of a sting operation? Please remember that the “top priority” of the FBI is “public corruption” in government agencies; and their investigation specifically includes “verdicts handed down in courts.”
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
Although there are endless minor variations within these two main coherent theories, for the purpose of this level we are only examining two basic theories: the court is in on the hoax, or the court is not in on the hoax (other than the defense, and maybe a few other key people). For the sake of discussion, we can refer to these two theories as “hoax court” and “sting court”.
In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used.
Even though level three is still unresolved, yet we can and should start investigating level four (The Sting). Actually, level three and four are closely related—so much so that if we get a clear answer to level four, then level three will probably be easy to resolve (and vice versa).
To be more specific: if it’s hoax court, then there would be little if any need to use a corpse; but if it is sting court, then the corpse theory has a strong case. This would not only reduce the people who would need to be in on it, but it would also allow witnesses to testify truthfully in real court under oath (both witnesses who are in on it, and those who are not).
It has been suggested that this would constitute entrapment; but sting versus entrapment does not depend on using a dummy versus a corpse. It would be possible to use a dummy, and still qualify as entrapment, if the job was done so airtight that nobody could figure it out. On the other hand: it would be possible to use a corpse, and not qualify as entrapment, as long as there are plenty of clues and evidence that MJ is still alive. If the hoax forums can figure out that MJ is alive, when most of the members are not even professional investigators, then what excuse would the LA prosecution have for not figuring it out?
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose. Just bring into this thread discussion and evidence related to the focus of The Sting, and especially whether it is hoax court or sting court.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg325716.html#msg325716 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg325716.html#msg325716)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=475#p325011)
Good eye! :lol:
Although some have said that this thread is just going in circles, and nothing accomplished, yet there has been some definite progress. There have been strong arguments presented both for and against the corpse theory (with neither side fully convincing the other). But this can be a good thing; we will get a lot more information during the hearings, and some may find it easier to keep the faith with the corpse theory.
On the other hand, I agree with bec and others, that the corpse theory is the least desirable—and would certainly be avoided if there was any other feasible way. Some are very strongly opposed to this idea, while others are not; and although the emotional argument holds a lot of weight on this forum (at least with some), it probably would not hold much if any weight in a court of law—which is the type of evidence we are looking for.
And yes, I did say the fewer the better, not the fewest the best; nevertheless, for the sake of the challenge if nothing else, let’s examine this question from the fewest possible concept (and this is NOT the actual case, but for the purpose of making the point).
What if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, such as a hospice patient on life support: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
But in that case, wouldn’t people realize that it was not MJ? Scientific analysis (such as dental records) would only be done at the coroner; so this is why at least one there would need to be in. As far as visual recognition by others (paramedics, hospital staff, etc): this might not be as big of a problem as you would think. There are several things that would tend to distract people’s attention from the recognition factor: the power of suggestion (others saying that it is MJ), reports of baldness and wigs, and recent plastic surgery, and not very many recent pictures in the news, and the intensity of an emergency situation with a high profile VIP, and other distractions such as the fire alarm, etc (distractions created by the few who are in on it).
We do know that This Scenario at least could have happened with the paramedics, since they reported not recognizing MJ. And if it could happen with the paramedics, then why not at the hospital also? In reality, we know that more are in on it than just Murray and the coroner; nevertheless, this should help to clarify which of the options would require the least number of people to be in on it. Any of the other options (MJ himself, an MJ living double, a dummy, or nothing) would require that ALL of the paramedics be in on it, as well as several at the hospital.
So again, if anyone can debunk the corpse theory, please do. But not with emotional reactions please, only documented evidence. And there were a couple of good comments on the life support patient idea: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=175#p322797 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=175#p322797) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p323766 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p323766)
See also a similar but slightly different theory: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p324064 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=375#p324064) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=400#p324431 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=400#p324431) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=550#p325518 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&start=550#p325518)
You make absolutely sense. I do believe that the family does visits this forum and reads all or our posts. The Ironic thing is that they say it with conviction see (i used the word) with CON lolol/ that Michael has passed. So why aren't they telling us to close this forum because it is none sense, Michael is dead. For me it means they are ok with it, because Michael is alive. Now all we found as investigation it is smere speculations, so even if the evil people who are after Michael cannot find out that Michael is alive.. This is the feeling I get.
Post by: bec on October 14, 2011, 11:57:07 PM
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 15, 2011, 01:04:07 AM
crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
Post by: RK on October 15, 2011, 01:25:31 AM
Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
Post by: Grace on October 15, 2011, 02:12:28 AM
we TRIED !
despite huge obstacles of limited capacities, limited access and limited time
we were willing to participate in the audition and learn the spins.
we DISCOVERED !
tons of contradictions, potential connections, evidence of lies.
we CONNECTED !
and did not draw back into our snail shell and wept but jumped from dot to dot and drew the lines.
we ANSWERED !
each other's questions and supported each other in times of doubt.
we UNITED !
and came together over Michael from all over the world and discovered that we are truly ONE IN LOVE.
If all of this is nothing then I am Martin Luther King:
Quote
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
There's nothing to be afraid of and nothing to be proven - except:
WE are the world.
As much as "they" don't care about us, we have built our HIStory in concrete evidence within 2+ years:
We do care about us.
We do care about each other.
This is the one truth that cannot be ignored, be it hoax and/or sting or murder.
Blessings, brothers and sisters, and much L.O.V.E.
Thank you to each one of you for being here.
Post by: Thriller4ever on October 15, 2011, 05:30:22 AM
Post by: MJonmind on October 15, 2011, 05:37:13 AM
The reason why no single theory/argument (such as about the body) is solid is because genius MJ has deliberately inserted details that contradict/confuse/mislead every single one of them. As if when he was planning this hoax, he foreknew the various conclusions we would come up with and preplanned a monkey-wrench to throw in each one. That's why it seems we're going in circles and after 2 years have nothing concrete to display on a billboard as in your face proof that Michael is alive and hoaxed his death. That's why nonbeLIEvers scoff at us. It's why we're all addicted here, because we all hope to find/hear the information our fried minds (mine anyway fresse/) long to hear--the missing links, the confirmations, the magic interpretive key. We are truly all squished into the back of Front's truck bumping along, he's not watching where he's going because he's mostly watching our reactions and he knows what's ahead. Who would want to get off except those who can't take it anymore :-[/pull hair/. Not me for one! MJ's alive and hoaxed his death, that's all I'm 200%sure of. bow/ But I'm loving the journey Michael, and with you all!
Post by: Thriller4ever on October 15, 2011, 06:10:03 AM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 15, 2011, 07:01:06 AM
crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
Exactly and that's why I come out with some other scenarios. Which are probably stupid.. Bec do not give up.. We need to persevere. One day Michael will come out and tell us..
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 15, 2011, 09:32:45 AM
I'm gonna watch one right now bounce/ bounce/ bounce/ (and keep the link to myself :twisted:)
ps: as hard as I try I see no sting in all these.
Post by: Adi on October 15, 2011, 10:13:19 AM
Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
I really think that is the point...we can't prove anything.....and maybe that is just the way Michael planned it to be???
"It's all going to come out.....it's all going to unfold" just as Jermaine told us.
We have been here together for such a long time, and for a reason, trying to figure this all out....we may not agree on the how or the why or the what....but we all know that Michael Jackson is not dead.
At the end of this I am sure we will know the truth of the how, the why and the what......but at the end of the day we have heard and observed and learned and been enlightened...we will know the truth eventually....the truth will prevail.
Post by: Thriller4ever on October 15, 2011, 11:22:57 AM
1) This is it Movie ( released on 28th October 2009; supported the hoax and gave out more clues)
2) People's v. Conrad Murray trial ends on 28th October 2011...
3) Anonymous (Movie) to release in theatres on 28th October 2011 ( William Shakespeare's connection with Michael's death Hoax)
4) A group called Anonymous bringing out REVOLUTION ( wearing vendetta masks)
5) V for Vendetta Movie ( a REVOLUTION against government; related to Michael Jackson Death Hoax)
6) The Government's plans; NWO; End of the world
7) Mayan Calender ends on 28th October
8) Reminds us of Movie 2012 ( ignoring the date Dec. 21, 2012; and considering the relation of the Mayan calender)
9) Jackson's attempts to save the world, and the success; The Young scientist's speech about Humanity.
10) Very much supports the Hoax; V for Victory!!! :)
Does it make sense? :D
Post by: Sarahli on October 15, 2011, 12:47:27 PM
Quote
What if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, SUCH AS A HOSPICE PATIENT ON LIFE SUPPORT: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
In regards to the theory of the terminally ill patient I thought it would be good to know if Propofol is a substance that can be given in such cases because if it wasn't the case then it would be an argument that could be used to more easily rule out this theory. Now apparently Propofol can be used for such patients. To make it simple here's what wikipedia has to say about it:
Quote
[dot]Palliative sedation[/dot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative_sedation
In medicine, specifically in end-of-life care, palliative sedation (also known as terminal sedation, continuous deep sedation, or sedation for intractable distress in the dying/of a dying patient) is the palliative practice of relieving distress in a terminally ill person in the last hours or days of a dying patient's life, usually by means of a continuous intravenous or subcutaneous infusion of a sedative drug. This is an option of last resort for patients whose symptoms cannot be controlled by any other means. This should be differentiated from euthanasia as the goal of palliative sedation is to control symptoms through sedation but not shorten the patient's life, while in euthanasia the goal is to shorten life to cease suffering.
[dot]Drugs used[/dot]
A typical drug is midazolam, a short acting benzodiazepine. Opioids such as morphine are not used as the primary medicine since they are not effective sedative medications compared to benzodiazepines. However, if a patient was already on an opioid for pain relief, this is continued for pain relief while sedation is achieved. Other medications to be considered include haloperidol, chlorpromazine, pentobarbital, propofol or phenobarbital.
At the end of life sedation is only used if the patient perceives their distress to be unbearable, and there are no other means of relieving that distress.
[/size]
There are a lot of studies quite complicated to read but so far the main thing that comes back about it is relatively well explained in this wiki article. Propofol is one of the drugs that can be used in such cases.
I also came across this story of a terminal ill patient with severe pains and distress: http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/5/1/53.full it is explained how Propofol has been used as a last resort because while the other drugs were not working, Propofol was very effective.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see that some of you want to give up. Please everyone, I really think it's not time to give up. You ALL have done an amazing job and without your perseverance and valuable inputs we never would have gone this far! I appreciate all of your posts and theories and this is because of that, that I come back here to read and inspire myself. TEAM WORK. I really think that this is the time to put everything together and continue to try to SEE and PERCEIVE until the much anticipated Victory. It's really worth it and for Michael.
/bravo/ to all of you amazing investigators!
ps: thank you BeTheChange for your comment. I would agree with you about a possible sting towards Pharmacies.
Post by: looking4truth on October 15, 2011, 01:08:09 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 15, 2011, 01:24:56 PM
Post by: Thriller4ever on October 15, 2011, 01:28:24 PM
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbang
it's definitely possible...
Post by: fordtocarr on October 15, 2011, 03:05:37 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 15, 2011, 04:20:57 PM
Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
I really think that is the point...we can't prove anything.....and maybe that is just the way Michael planned it to be???
"It's all going to come out.....it's all going to unfold" just as Jermaine told us.
We have been here together for such a long time, and for a reason, trying to figure this all out....we may not agree on the how or the why or the what....but we all know that Michael Jackson is not dead.
At the end of this I am sure we will know the truth of the how, the why and the what......but at the end of the day we have heard and observed and learned and been enlightened...we will know the truth eventually....the truth will prevail.
Exactly. And that is the reason why I call this as a PERFECT plan created by a PERFECTIONIST! He gave us tons of things but still we can not prove he is alive or we can not prove this is a sting or a real body was used and it goes on... On one hand we have LOTS of things that proves he is alive but on the other hand we have NOTHING that proves he is alive ... The biggest contradiction is the hoax itself. This is a very long thought, hard work, imagination, creation plan. That is the reason why I say this hoax was planned for decades. It is so perfect. He let us know that he is alive but we can not prove it to anyone. Because if it could be proved, everyone would be finding out about it and it would lose all its magic and all the plan would be destroyed. And till the end the mystery will not be unfold. This is how magic works. And I'm not so sure if our Magician is going to tell ALL of his secrets after the show ends. Maybe some of them but not all of them. We'll see. ;)
Post by: RK on October 15, 2011, 08:19:46 PM
Well put Purelove. This is what we were all agreeing with. Nobody [no body] haha...is giving up, just stopping ourselves from running the same circles constantly, a bit like a dog on a chain, covering that same ground. But if he get's tired of the activity and sits down and lifts his head to watch, the vista is much enlarged. Sorry for likening us to dogs on a chain, but with the court case, working full time and life in general, there is not much time left for running over the same old ground constantly at the moment. I just want to assure people no one mean't we are giving up.....maybe resting more, conserving strength... and WATCHING.Me three. I'm in watching mode.crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
:lol: the best resolution. Me too.
I really think that is the point...we can't prove anything.....and maybe that is just the way Michael planned it to be???
"It's all going to come out.....it's all going to unfold" just as Jermaine told us.
We have been here together for such a long time, and for a reason, trying to figure this all out....we may not agree on the how or the why or the what....but we all know that Michael Jackson is not dead.
At the end of this I am sure we will know the truth of the how, the why and the what......but at the end of the day we have heard and observed and learned and been enlightened...we will know the truth eventually....the truth will prevail.
Exactly. And that is the reason why I call this as a PERFECT plan created by a PERFECTIONIST! He gave us tons of things but still we can not prove he is alive or we can not prove this is a sting or a real body was used and it goes on... On one hand we have LOTS of things that proves he is alive but on the other hand we have NOTHING that proves he is alive ... The biggest contradiction is the hoax itself. This is a very long thought, hard work, imagination, creation plan. That is the reason why I say this hoax was planned for decades. It is so perfect. He let us know that he is alive but we can not prove it to anyone. Because if it could be proved, everyone would be finding out about it and it would lose all its magic and all the plan would be destroyed. And till the end the mystery will not be unfold. This is how magic works. And I'm not so sure if our Magician is going to tell ALL of his secrets after the show ends. Maybe some of them but not all of them. We'll see. ;)
Post by: bec on October 15, 2011, 08:31:07 PM
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 15, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
Wow, I have to say that was THE rudest think I've read on here Bec! WHAT I wrote is I USED to think that in the beginning. I also said I don't believe it anymore.There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
Seeing as YOU are the ultimate authority on who's right and wrong and us who don't know what you are talking about are examples of BEING UNEDUCATED AND STILL PARTICIPATING .... then maybe we'll just stay out of your discussion. I'm really thinking this is all gone to your head. Where is the love in OUR group with talk like THAT??
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 15, 2011, 08:52:05 PM
BeTheChange:
"I also believe that 'doctors' could be a possible 'target' (IF there is a 'sting' or several going on). I've posted about why I think so before....but the main point being that there is widespread addiction to prescription drugs and a HUGE reason for this is through doctors' prescriptions. This could be personal to Mike (I'm sure he's known a few people who were addicted and some who may even have died due to prescription drugs)...and it would also be an FBI and/or DEA 'interest.'
Quote from: Sarahli on October 14, 2011, 08:44:29 PM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg363163.html#msg363163)<blockquote>One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
</blockquote>
If doctors are a 'target'...then it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that pharmacies are as well. I wrote about this awhile back:
Quote from: BeTheChange on September 28, 2011, 02:29:34 AM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg357937.html#msg357937)<blockquote>Pharmacies - if docs are the 'pushers'...the pharmacies are 'suppliers'. I have to go through a whole ID process to get some cough medicine at the pharmacy. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substance (or at least one that should raise eyebrows coming from a cardiologist) and sent it the doc's girlfriend's place lol. Whether they knowingly knew things were shady or whether they were just too stupid to follow up on the doc and the address....they are still guitly of not fulfilling their duty to society at minimum...an accomplice to a homicide at most.
</blockquote>
We've seen a few things come up in court that would support a possible 'sting' on doctors. Likewise, there have been 2 pharmacies mentioned in court that could also support them being a 'target' as well (Applied Pharmacy - Lopez's testimony...and Mickey's Finn Pharmacy was also mentioned but not elaborated on...but we did learn that there is a 'link' between this pharmacy and Klein).
For all we know, the FBI/DEA could've been 'surveilling' all the docs and pharmacies mentioned in the trial prior to 2009...and I tend to believe the 'foundation' of this sting (if there is one) started many years ago. If true, then I also think that Murray (acting under the direction of the FBI) ordered all that propofol from Applied simply to see if he could and if they would ship it to wherever he wanted. That may have been the 'bait'....and if true, then Applied fell for it hook, line and sinker. It will be interesting to learn more about Mickey's Finn Pharmacy and their 'role' in all this...especially their connection to Klein. Perhaps we will once things start to unravel.
With L.O.V.E. always. "
Yes BTC; I'm thinking along these lines also, as one of my friends said almost a yr ago that there are doctors going down across the country that had connections to MJ but it's not in the media. This has been in the works for many yrs. I think the sting element also encompasses the corruption from MJ's court case; lots of layers... @ Im_convincedmjalive... Thank you for reposing TS comments. I needed to read that again. When ever I'm feeling down or loosing faith it's good to re-read what he has already told us. THE ANSWERS ARE THERE. bearhug
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 15, 2011, 10:12:20 PM
Quote
That is not to say that what we are doing is exposing MJ to danger because as difficult as it is to prove to non-believers about the hoax and as difficult as it is for me to prove to others my theories,I am thinking some people may have misunderstood this statement above that I made. My saying that it is difficult for me to prove my theories to others IS not meant to say I am having a difficult time on my side. It IS to say that no matter how much evidence I provide for my theories some people just won't except it. That is where the difficult part comes from, people not believing.
@Sarahli-Thank you and I didn't mean to not thank you before. I am posting your comments and BeTheChange's comments. You both are on a track that has been a long held theory of mine regarding the sting against docs and pharmacies. I have added old comments I said about these subjects. This will seem like a long post and it is but there is alot of important info in it. Including your thoughts and BeTheChange's thoughts. I had gone down the path of end of life hospice patient just as you have recently. I have put that out of my theory and I have only stuck with a pre-dead corpse/cadaver. I also do not think a dummy was used in the house, hospital, to the coroners. That is not to say that my theory is correct.
I believe the coroner's office helped in getting the corpse/cadaver and the release of the autopsy reports. I am not naming names other than Ed Winter and Craig Harvey. DEtAiLS:The autopsy report could have been dare I say $bought$.
I have included my old comments about the trial and false evidence. I have included videos that are worth watching. The connection from Arnie Klien and Mickey Fine Pharmacy is in one of the videos. There is also a link to an article about him just ignore who the author is. I have not given up and never intend to. I am riding this out until the wheels fall off. Thank you Sarahli and BeTheChange for contributing to the sting side. Thank you to everyone for participating. Yes I know there is alot of links but worth reading.
@Im_convinced
You have the most difficult theory to prove but really you're doing a great job. /bravo/
I was thinking about something in regards to the Sting court....what if the Hoax court is there to serve the purpose of demonstrating that in 2005 it was okay for people in the judicial system to accept fake evidences, false testimonies, etc? It would put the sting on another level/perspective but it is still there and both are possible, Hoax and Sting together....just a thought.
TIAI April 11
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg326571.html#msg326571
Quote
QuoteSouza wrote:
I believe the trial is staged, since there never was a dead Michael Jackson, so Murray could never be charged with manslaughter. It may look real for those attending, but it simply can't be real because you need a dead MICHAEL JACKSON. If this would be a real trial based on a corpse called 'John Doe', Murray would have been charged for killing 'John Doe'. So there is no need for people to be nervous, no one is going to jail.
An Innocent Man Facing Execution in Georgia
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=17366
Innocence Project/Help End Wrongful Convictionshttp://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=17415
Aug-05-2010 06:57
Evidence Shows Oregon Inmate Was Falsely Convicted
Tim King Salem-News.com
(http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/august022010/kimble.jpg)QuoteDNA clears African-American inmate serving 19-year sentence for sex abuse.Keep reading here:
(SALEM, Ore.) - Documents in the case of an African-American man serving a 19-year sentence for sex crimes against a child, spell out what may be one of Oregon's more significant miscarriages of justice.
38-year old Terrence Kimble's story is very hard to believe, yet it is a fact that this man has had to live with for almost ten years while incarcerated in the Oregon State Penitentiary in Salem. From the beginning of his ordeal, Kimble has been denied a lie detector test. At this point the whole thing defies explanation, because the DNA didn't match.
"I will continue to fight for my freedom no matter how much time I get or no matter how long it takes. I feel like a political prisoner here in Eugene, Oregon..."
- Terrence Kimble's statement at trial
How a prosecutor in Lane County, Oregon was able to create a case with no witnesses, a denial of the crime that began with the victim and included an aunt and uncle, who is a psychologist; blood relatives of the girl, is perplexing.
Add to that an emergency room doctor's examination of the alleged 13-year old victim concluding that the girl had not engaged in any sexual activity, and the fact that she was in the presence of family members exhibiting normal behavior at the time of the alleged occurrence, and the fact that a man was sent to prison for 19 years becomes all the more unbelievable, yet it happened, and for Terrence Kimble, it continues every day of his life. The crime Kimble is incarcerated for places him under the worst imaginable conditions.
Questions now surround instructions provided by the judge in the case, as well as possible motives of the prosecutor, who was obviously very intense in his desire to convict Kimble - who never wavered from his position as that of an innocent man - of first-degree Rape.
Lorna Jackson, aunt of the alleged victim, offered this testimony at trial:
Q: Prior to that instance when you saw her on that Friday the 8th, was there anything about her demeanor or her appearance that alerted you that something wrong had happened?
A: No. No. There was nothing.
Ezekiel Jackson, an Industrial Psychologist, is the uncle of Tracy Hoffman. Hoffman is the mother of the alleged victim, Danielle McDaniel, who was 13 at the time and one of three siblings. Ezekiel Jackson and his wife Lorna Jackson were the reason Kimble and Hoffman were in Oregon with their children.
Ezekiel Jackson testified:
Q: At some point in time you learned that there was some trouble with Terrence and one of the daughters, some allegations that were made. Is that right?
A: When? What allegations?
Q: Danielle made an allegation against Mr. Kimble.
A: Such as?
Q: That he had sexually abused her.
A: It didn't happen.
Q: Mr. Jackson, I may have missed -- I may have misunderstood what you said. But are you saying that this couldn't have happened because Danielle was with you all day when it was supposed to have happened?
A: No. Couldn't have happened because Danielle, myself and Tracy talked about this incident and it was stated that it did not happen.
This discussion, according to Mr. Jackson, took place in front of Eugene Police officers there to investigate the allegation.
Kimble said in court, "I can't understand how I was found guilty of sex crimes with no physical or solid evidence. I was found guilty on hearsay."
"From just another African-American who has been railroaded by Lane County, Oregon, no matter how much time I'm sentenced to serve I'm going to continued to maintain my innocence for the crime for which I was found guilty and the crimes I was also accused of. I will continue to fight for my freedom no matter how much time I get or no matter how long it takes. I feel like a political prisoner here in Eugene, Oregon."
Judge Karsten Rasmussen, who was a personal injury lawyer prior to becoming a judge, said: "Mr. Kimble, the jury found what it found, and I confess to you that I would have found you guilty of the more serious crimes in all probability. I found the testimony of the victim in this case, a now 14-year old African-American girl, to be some of the most compelling testimony that I've ever heard in the 20 years or so I've been in this business. I found her completely and totally believable."
Yet the testimony seems simply to not exist.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august052010/kimble-innocent-tk.php
DNA frees Texas man imprisoned for 27 years
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/04/30/us-usa-exoneration-dna-idUSN2938136220080430QuoteDALLAS | Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:26pm EDTThe list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.
DALLAS (Reuters) - A man walked out of a Dallas court on Tuesday after DNA testing overturned his conviction over 27 years ago for the murder and rape of his girlfriend, local media reported.
James Woodard, 55, spent more time in prison than any other wrongfully convicted inmate in U.S. history who was subsequently freed by DNA testing, local media reported.
He was also the eighteenth person freed in Dallas County based on a post-conviction DNA analysis, according to the Innocence Project, a New York-based legal center that specializes in righting grave miscarriages of justice.
That is more than any other U.S. county, highlighting problems in the local justice system that include what critics have said is a history of racism and racial profiling.
Woodward is a black male -- the typical profile of those wrongfully sent to prison in Dallas and elsewhere in the United States.
"We've reached a tipping point on wrongful convictions in Texas. Nobody can seriously doubt that there's a problem," the Innocence project quoted Texas State Sen. Rodney Ellis as saying on Tuesday.
Ellis said on Tuesday a summit would be held in the state capitol of Austin on May 8 to determine the causes of wrongful convictions in Texas and identify reforms that can prevent them.
Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:
It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.
The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.QuoteSouza wrote:The issue of falsified evidence would not apply for MJ and the FBI in a sting operation where lies/deception are allowed. It does apply to the other side that is investigating this case and the DA. They are the ones who are running with the false evidence and trying to prosecute an innocent man based on that fake evidence. That shows their flaws and corruption.
A dead body might be seen as false evidence and therefore entrapment. If there is only the slightest chance that that is true, or could be seen that way in a court of law...
I am not saying that the corpse was a hospice patient but realistically with out the numerology; the stories presented to us about MJ being sick follow the symptoms of a end of life patient (signs that death may be near). The kind of drugs listed for symptom management are some of the drugs found at the house and also the drugs (alleged) MJ was taking at Dr. Klien’s office (morphine/demerol). What was found at the death scene (found on the autopsy report in the 3A papers by E. Fleaks) midazolam, propofol both in an injectable form. These are used in terminal sedation.
This could be explained as the hospice patient could no longer swallow pills to relieve symptoms so the injectable drug was needed. I could also say that those were in injectable form because the body was a dead/cadaver and injecting the drugs found in his system would be easier than trying to make a corpse force swallow or a force drink anything. A better option to this being a hospice patient who is unreliable to die at the exact time needed for the numorology to work is an already dead cadaver staged to look like a hospice patient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_sedationQuoteIn medicine, specifically in end-of-life care, palliative sedation (also known as terminal sedation, continuous deep sedation, or sedation for intractable distress in the dying/of a dying patient) is the palliative practice of relieving distress in a terminally ill person in the last hours or days of a dying patient's life, usually by means of a continuous intravenous or subcutaneous infusion of a sedative drug. This is an option of last resort for patients whose symptoms cannot be controlled by any other means. This should be differentiated from euthanasia as the goal of palliative sedation is to control symptoms through sedation but not shorten the patient's life, while in euthanasia the goal is to shorten life to cease symptoms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_sedation#Drugs_usedQuoteA typical drug is midazolam, a short acting benzodiazepine. Opioids such as morphine are not used as the primary medicine since they are not effective sedative medications compared to benzodiazepines. However, if a patient was already on an opioid for pain relief, this is continued for pain relief while sedation is achieved. Other medications to be considered include haloperidol, chlorpromazine, pentobarbital, propofol or phenobarbitalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_life_care#Care_in_the_final_days_and_hours_of_lifeQuoteCare in the final days and hours of life
Signs that death may be near
The U.S. Government National Cancer Institute advises that the presence of some of the following signs may indicate that death is approaching:
Drowsiness, increased sleep, and/or unresponsiveness (caused by changes in the patient's metabolism).
Confusion about time, place, and/or identity of loved ones; restlessness; visions of people and places that are not present; pulling at bed linens or clothing (caused in part by changes in the patient's metabolism).
Decreased socialization and withdrawal (caused by decreased oxygen to the brain, decreased blood flow, and mental preparation for dying).
Decreased need for food and fluids, and loss of appetite (caused by the body's need to conserve energy and its decreasing ability to use food and fluids properly).
Loss of bladder or bowel control (caused by the relaxing of muscles in the pelvic area).
Darkened urine or decreased amount of urine (caused by slowing of kidney function and/or decreased fluid intake).
Skin becoming cool to the touch, particularly the hands and feet; skin may become bluish in color, especially on the underside of the body (caused by decreased circulation to the extremities).
Rattling or gurgling sounds while breathing, which may be loud; breathing that is irregular and shallow; decreased number of breaths per minute; breathing that alternates between rapid and slow (caused by congestion from decreased fluid consumption, a buildup of waste products in the body, and/or a decrease in circulation to the organs).
Turning of the head toward a light source (caused by decreasing vision).
Increased difficulty controlling pain (caused by progression of the disease).
Involuntary movements (called myoclonus), changes in heart rate, and loss of reflexes in the legs and arms are additional signs that the end of life is near.QuoteSymptom management
The following are some of the most common potential problems which can arise in the last days and hours of a patient's life:
Pain -Suffering from uncontrolled pain is a significant fear of those at end of life.
Typically controlled using morphine or diamorphine; or other opioids.
Agitation
Delirium, terminal anguish, restlessness (e.g. thrashing, plucking, or twitching). Typically controlled using midazolam, or other benzodiazepines. Symptoms may also sometimes be alleviated by rehydration, which may reduce the effects of some toxic drug metabolites.
Respiratory Tract Secretions
Saliva and other fluids can accumulate in the oropharynx and upper airways when patients become too weak to clear their throats, leading to a characteristic gurgling or rattle-like sound ("death rattle"). Whilst apparently not painful for the patient, the association of the symptom with impending death can create fear and uncertainty for those at the bedside. The secretions may be controlled using drugs such as scopolamine (hyoscine), glycopyrronium, or atropine. Rattle may not be controllable if caused by deeper fluid accumulation in the bronchi or the lungs, such as occurs with pneumonia or some tumours.
Nausea and vomiting
Typically controlled using cyclizine; or other anti-emetics.
Dyspnoea (breathlessness)
Typically controlled using morphine or diamorphine
Typical care plans, such as those based on the Liverpool Care Pathway for dying patients, will pre-authorise staff to give subcutaneous injections to address such symptoms as soon as they are needed, without needing to take time to seek further authorisation. Such injections are usually the preferred means of delivery, as it may become difficult for patients to swallow or to take pills orally. If repeated medication is needed, a syringe driver (called an infusion pump in the US) is likely to be used, to deliver a steady low dose of medication.
Other symptoms which may occur, and may be mitigable to some extent, include cough, fatigue, fever, and in some cases haemorrhage
TS said:QuoteWhat if MJ actually died morning of 6-25-09: how many would need to be “in on it”? NONE! Why? Because it would not be a hoax, and there would be no hoax for anyone to be “in on”. Then what if someone else actually died morning of 6-25-09, SUCH AS A HOSPICE PATIENT ON LIFE SUPPORT: how many would need to be “in on it”? None, EXCEPT the following: those at the house who knew about the hospice patient there (could be none other than MJ and Murray), and one or at most a few involved in the autopsy.
In regards to the theory of the terminally ill patient I thought it would be good to know if Propofol is a substance that can be given in such cases because if it wasn't the case then it would be an argument that could be used to more easily rule out this theory. Now apparently Propofol can be used for such patients. To make it simple here's what wikipedia has to say about it:Quote[dot]Palliative sedation[/dot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative_sedation
In medicine, specifically in end-of-life care, palliative sedation (also known as terminal sedation, continuous deep sedation, or sedation for intractable distress in the dying/of a dying patient) is the palliative practice of relieving distress in a terminally ill person in the last hours or days of a dying patient's life, usually by means of a continuous intravenous or subcutaneous infusion of a sedative drug. This is an option of last resort for patients whose symptoms cannot be controlled by any other means. This should be differentiated from euthanasia as the goal of palliative sedation is to control symptoms through sedation but not shorten the patient's life, while in euthanasia the goal is to shorten life to cease suffering.
[dot]Drugs used[/dot]
A typical drug is midazolam, a short acting benzodiazepine. Opioids such as morphine are not used as the primary medicine since they are not effective sedative medications compared to benzodiazepines. However, if a patient was already on an opioid for pain relief, this is continued for pain relief while sedation is achieved. Other medications to be considered include haloperidol, chlorpromazine, pentobarbital, propofol or phenobarbital.
At the end of life sedation is only used if the patient perceives their distress to be unbearable, and there are no other means of relieving that distress.
[/size]
There are a lot of studies quite complicated to read but so far the main thing that comes back about it is relatively well explained in this wiki article. Propofol is one of the drugs that can be used in such cases.
I also came across this story of a terminal ill patient with severe pains and distress: http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/5/1/53.full it is explained how Propofol has been used as a last resort because while the other drugs were not working, Propofol was very effective.
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I see that some of you want to give up. Please everyone, I really think it's not time to give up. You ALL have done an amazing job and without your perseverance and valuable inputs we never would have gone this far! I appreciate all of your posts and theories and this is because of that, that I come back here to read and inspire myself. TEAM WORK. I really think that this is the time to put everything together and continue to try to SEE and PERCEIVE until the much anticipated Victory. It's really worth it and for Michael.
/bravo/ to all of you amazing investigators!
ps: thank you BeTheChange for your comment. I would agree with you about a possible sting towards Pharmacies.
@Sarahli...good posts about a possible 'sting' on docs.
I also believe that 'doctors' could be a possible 'target' (IF there is a 'sting' or several going on). I've posted about why I think so before....but the main point being that there is widespread addiction to prescription drugs and a HUGE reason for this is through doctors' prescriptions. This could be personal to Mike (I'm sure he's known a few people who were addicted and some who may even have died due to prescription drugs)...and it would also be an FBI and/or DEA 'interest.'
One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.
If doctors are a 'target'...then it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that pharmacies are as well. I wrote about this awhile back:
Pharmacies - if docs are the 'pushers'...the pharmacies are 'suppliers'. I have to go through a whole ID process to get some cough medicine at the pharmacy. Applied Pharmacy 'supplied' a doctor with 15 litres of a controlled substance (or at least one that should raise eyebrows coming from a cardiologist) and sent it the doc's girlfriend's place lol. Whether they knowingly knew things were shady or whether they were just too stupid to follow up on the doc and the address....they are still guitly of not fulfilling their duty to society at minimum...an accomplice to a homicide at most.
We've seen a few things come up in court that would support a possible 'sting' on doctors. Likewise, there have been 2 pharmacies mentioned in court that could also support them being a 'target' as well (Applied Pharmacy - Lopez's testimony...and Mickey's Finn Pharmacy was also mentioned but not elaborated on...but we did learn that there is a 'link' between this pharmacy and Klein).
For all we know, the FBI/DEA could've been 'surveilling' all the docs and pharmacies mentioned in the trial prior to 2009...and I tend to believe the 'foundation' of this sting (if there is one) started many years ago. If true, then I also think that Murray (acting under the direction of the FBI) ordered all that propofol from Applied simply to see if he could and if they would ship it to wherever he wanted. That may have been the 'bait'....and if true, then Applied fell for it hook, line and sinker. It will be interesting to learn more about Mickey's Finn Pharmacy and their 'role' in all this...especially their connection to Klein. Perhaps we will once things start to unravel.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Could the Sting be also against some doctors that have "treated" Michael? I say that because I was wondering again about what Michael is trying to show us with the trial. For the moment I see that Murray is in very bad waters, I don't see how it is possible to not find him guilty. He made colossal "mistakes", so he is responsible. With that in mind it is possible that one of the purposes of this trial could be not to show us that an innocent man can be found guilty but the exact opposite? That he is in fact guilty of gross negligence. This would then fit in with the sting theory to expose the doctor/doctors who did this to Michael.I wanted to add some more thoughts to this theory. Concerning the autopsy picture my opinion is that a dummy was used, like the one for the ambulance picture with bits of Photoshop magic of course. Dummies can be flexible which fits with what La Toya said about being able to bend the body and which could explain the body moving in the helicopter ride lol. It's also possible to close/open the eyes of a dummy, hence why they're closed in the ambulance and why Jermaine has been able to open them at the hospital.
I am thinking of the pictures we've been shown for example, maybe that some of them represent the truth of past events? And Michael is trying to show us what happened to him years ago like a sort of documentary. It's a kind of re-enactment of HIStory.
Coming back to the Sting, it could very well be directed at those doctors. God, they should feel threatened right now after having seen these pictures. :evil:
Several doctors have been mentioned already during the trial, and Arnold Klein is one of them. What makes me think the Sting could be directed at him for example is that he was Michael's main doctor and is NOT on the witness list??? Why? It does not make any sense at all given the "theme" discussed in the trial. So I'm of the opinion that this fact, to not have included Klein in the witness list, is a BIG hint as to whom the sting is directed at. Remember as well the statements that surrounded Klein after Michael's "death"; the gay garbage and the children conception. I will (safely?) assume that Michael would never include this in the Hoax. And don't forget Back's post about Klein that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Of course it would make the FBI involved.
I just want to make clear that in this theory Murray is in on it, helping Michael actually BUT he is playing, portraying doctor(s) who may have acted in the same way with Michael. So Murray is actually a part of the sting and why not an FBI agent himself. Who knows.
Concerning the FBI I only see all this being possible with them being involved (key people in key places). I don't think it's possible to fake your death on such a grand scale without their help. Of course they would get involved only if a sting operation is attached to the Hoax, they wouldn't if it was just for a reality movie. Also it would make it easier for the doctors, coroner et al to be involved because they would just cooperate without asking too much questions. So my opinion is that most of the doctors and the coroner are in on it.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,16882.0.html
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,16882.msg288010.html#msg288010
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,16882.msg288022.html#msg288022
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,16882.msg288060.html#msg288060
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cE3ZOVeCpM[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by StargazerMJ11 on Dec 30, 2010http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUB_z3vOLk&feature=related
The quality isn't very good but it was the best I could do. Watch it with your hoax head on. The Fame game was on after this & after 2 hrs of 'how to be famous' it ended with Michaels thriller laugh - hillarious!!! Happy New Year everyone xxx
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Zvi-xiwKc&feature=related
Part 3
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZFRbn_aYV8&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Arnie Klien's office in the same building as Mickey Fine pharmacy. There is one connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiAzwKucKBg&feature=relmfu
Part 5
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20255.msg351217.html#msg351217
Quote
The Secret World of Dr. Arnold Kleinhttp://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358741.html#msg358741
Aug 25, 2011 8:21 PM EDT
Hollywood’s "dermatologist to the stars" has been caught up in the investigation of Michael Jackson’s death. But he may have some tough new questions to answer thanks to a litigious battle he launched against his former office manager and former accountant.
Quote
I wrote about the issues I felt were a part of this sting operation back in the thread TIAI April 11 but here it is again since it does apply here regarding some of the WHO the focus of the sting is. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.phpf=145&t=18688&p=322491#p322491QuoteThe way things are now Propofol is an uncontrolled drug and can be obtained very easily by a Dr. who has a liscense and also by a person with a script. The pharmacy in Nevada was distributing Propofol to Murray as if it was no big deal. That is why that pharmacy is now shut down.
The events that have happened since MJ died because of Propofol have been incredible. MJ used himself as bait for a sting operation that far out weighs a cadaver being used in the process. He also used Propofol as the drug of choice so that it would cause great attention to that drug. The Propofol from a manufacture making it was shown to have tainted lot numbers. The manufactures have stopped making it here in the USA. There is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.QuoteI believe that one part of the sting operation deals with the drug problems in Hollywood and the over prescribing of meds by the doctors. I also believe it has to do with FDA issues and the manufactors of Propofol. Big pharmaceuticals manufactors do not care what goes into the drugs or the side effects as long as they make a profit. Tainted medicines are resold all the time in order to dump them and make a profit.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-14/health/jackson.drug.recall_1_generic-version-propofol-lot-number?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-15/health/propofol.dea.jackson_1_diprivan-propofol-drug?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/11/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-search-las-vegas/
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/propofol-manufacturer-in-michael-jackson-hospira-pharmacy/
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugShortages/ucm209227.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10769777
http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=31878
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/propofol/propofol_law.shtml
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2009/fr0723.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959QuoteThere is a timeline link below that shows how far back some issues started and caused faulty infusion pumps to be recalled.
http://www.dipity.com/timeline/Propofol-Recall
Post by: paula-c on October 15, 2011, 10:37:23 PM
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
Quote
I decided to call a pathologist today. I ended up with a very helpful doctor who is a clinical pathologist. This means his profession is not really to cut into corpses (he is not a coroner or forensic pathologist) but he investigates organs and tissues of living people. However, he does perform autopsies sometimes as well, but that is around 2-3% of his work. I called and told him I was doing research because I am writing a medical thriller and had some questions so i could form a factual and accurate murder plot. He was very helpful and asked me if I could let him know when my book will be published... poor guy. However, I got some very interesting information from him about dead people, freezing them and embalming them. Here is the info he gave me in no particular order:
Freezing a body and then melting it and heating it up is possible and it will indeed make a body look fresh. This however requires a quick freeze (professional) and immediately after death. The freeze will stop the decomposition of the body. From the outside, you will not see that the body isn't fresh. So far it seems that the EMT's. the doctors and the coroner could have been fooled with a long-dead corpse. HOWEVER... the moment the body is at a room temperature, rigor mortis and decomp will start and at a room that is heated up like that, it will go very rapidly, most definitely when the body is thin. If we believe that the EMT's found the body with the eyes open, we can be sure that there was no way that the doctors would be able to close the eyes after pronouncing him dead 2 hours later. And according to the official story we have been fed, they did because Jermaine tells us in his book that he opened one of the eyes when he went to see the body in the hospital. Besides that, it is standard procedure.
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before. When you freeze a corpse, your tissue -that contains water- will crystalize. He called it 'freezing artifacts' (literally translated from Dutch). Standard procedure with every autopsy performed is making slices of all the organs and putting those slices under a microscope. If tissue has been frozen before, the slices of the tissue will show tiny 'holes' because the crystals damage the tissue. By all means, the autopsy report will state that certain 'freeze artifacts' are present in the tissue and it will also state that itt was most likely caused by freezing.
What they can also see under the microscope, is if the patient has been ill before death. As he explained it to me, the organs that would have been affected by the illness, would show deformation of the cells. The coroner would definitely see if the patient was terminally ill before death.
He also said that in case of a heart attack, they will notice inflammation of the heart muscle under the microscope. I didn't dare to ask if that would be the same with a cardiac arrest, because I was afraid I would give myself away, hahaha. Maybe one of the medical experts here will know that. But as far as I know, the heart did not show any signs of inflammation in the AR, but maybe I overlooked something.
Latsly, since I had the feeling the doktor enjoyed my crazy questions, I also decided to ask about embalming, to make sure La Toya is full of shit in her book about the body looking stunning after 10 weeks.
He explained that they embalmed the people that were used by the students for research and class. They use a 4% formaldehyde and use a lot to make sure the whole body is fixed and that the decomp will stop. But to make sure the corpse will not dry out and 'schrink', they also put it in a bath of formaldehyde. If you don't lay the corpse in such a bath, the corpse will not look very pretty within a few days and will dry out completely. The body will also be fixed, so we now officially have confirmation that La Toya was lying when she said that MJ (who was allegedly embalmed) looked awesome without that bath after 10 weeks, and that she could bend the body.
So who saw the 'body'?
The family: obviously in on it
Security: Alvarez is the one calling 911 at exactly 12:21 pm. His testimony was full of fat BS and I think we can safely say he is in on it. Not to mention that we have a video of the security doing high fives later on as if they were happy they pulled it off.
Murray: obviously in on it, the guy didn't kill anyone and is on trial for something he didn't do, yet looks pretty relaxed when he let's Ben photograph him at the barber/pedicure/Disneyland/tie-shopping etc.
Paramedics: Didn't compare notes and their stories differ. If they were so truthful about what they have seen, why isn't their story identical? Plus they lost PRECIOUS moments by backing out that ambulance. Why didn't paramedic #3 testify? Who is that anyway? And why are they on a fake ambulance picture? Why did they back out of the property without that being necessary?
Dr. Cooper: Pronounced MJ in the field, yet worked on the body for over an hour, even though she testified that he was clinically DOA. She also pronounced him at 2:26 which ties in with the hoax, plus she allegedly closed the eyes of a corpse that was dead for hours (or months for that matter). Same goes for Nguyen. Both women are nowhere to be found on the internet with pictures (except for some linkedin profile of Nguyen with only UCLA as working experience and 1 connection ... ) while the mysterious Dr. Daniel Cruz, who IS on the internet with pictures, and who is a cardiologist! has not been on the prosecution's witness list.
Helicopter crew: I'm not even starting on them, they had the body on the seats for the crew in plain sight. Besides that, they could have been told that they had to transport a dummy like that to distract, so the real body could safely be transported by van. No need for a real dead body either way.
Coroner: Dr. Rogers, who said he did the autopsy, looked UNREAL and lied as soon as he lowered his right hand. "What is your profession Dr. Rogers?" -> "I'm a deputy medical examiner".. ORLY? BS! He is a Chief forensic MD, as stated on the website of the LA County Coroner. Besides that, the coroner in charge of the autopsy was Lakshmanan, why isn't HE on the witness list of the prosecution? And we know that the coroner must be in on it if he did not get a MJ look-a-like on his table that died the exact moment MJ decided (years ago) to hoax his death. Either he has seen no body at all and still made a bogus report, or he had a body on his table that had been frozen and still made a bogus report.
LAPD detective Martinez, who has NOT been on the witness list for the prosecution.
Forest Lawn director Scott something, according to La Toya, plus Jeffré Phillips. Both were present when the coffin was opened after 10 weeks and they lifted the body to get palm prints... 'nuff said (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Smileys/popos/icon_lol.gif)
There is still no reason for a real corpse. For who? To fool Martinez? Is he the target of the sting? Just he? And if so, why didn't they let him take the stand?
But anyways, I wanted to let y'all know that there is no way a coroner can be fooled with a terminally ill patient that died 6 months ago and has been on ice, no way.
This is the post of Souza?, here are speaking of a person who died some time ago. I raise the possibility of a patient in a terminal phase connected to a equipo artificial and disconnected the June 25. Of all ways bec with or without body the death certificate and the autopsy report are false. /white flag/
Post by: bec on October 15, 2011, 10:40:46 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 16, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
All these reminded me of TS and his end of the world theories and the sense of all these we are witnessing now.
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON I have to ask because I can't help thinking of what Sarahli said - could be controlled opposition so when the NWO will be able to take the power we'll feel like people wanted and asked for it, so it will accepted by masses with joy like it is the salvation from the current problems....?!
I found it so strange to hear in America they rise the problem that 1% of the people owe 99% of the wealth and that became a problem WTF?? !
So step by step we'll go back to Marx theories?
Or to the last level of capitalism - which is imperialism (I saw the word on a banner at TV and thought God I was saying this for 10 years and now it's on the news, I was shocked really :shock: ).
And if all these are meant to be - according to the Bible, is it in our power to change something?
And most of all, has Michael Jackson something to do with it?
Post by: Grace on October 16, 2011, 01:57:48 AM
However I want to challenge myself, get back to early ideas and look at it the other way round because there is still another possibility.
The hoax / sting may not be the initial sparks of the events but convenient, distracting - and planned - consecutive side events.
What if there was somebody terminally ill and dying at last and Michael helped to cover up this death (with the L.O.V.E.) by pretending it was Michael Jackson who had died?
What would that cover-up be for?
To give and honor a beloved friend who otherwise would not get such a farewell from the world.
This would not run into any conflict with the family smiling, Paris saying in public what a wonderful dad Michael (was) is, the boys looking bored and Al Sharpton dancing at the memorial. (I am not challenging Katherine as a mom will cry for just many many reasons when her kids are involved. I am not getting at Joe either laughing and presenting his newest label . I am not getting at the bodyguards playing fisting - it would be much more interesting who filmed them and leaked the video.)
This situation would also not run into any conflict with any additional long planned sting purposes and it certainly would not interfere with Michael's potential wishes for more privacy and getting out of spotlight.
This situation would not cause any legal consequences as assisted suicide / sedating of terminally ill people was made legally possible in California.
This would not cause a trial for Doc Murray for killing anybody.
This would explain the quantity of medicine being shipped, the medical equipment in the house and the missing defibrilator and other life-saving equipment since the life in question should be ended in dignity and not be revived.
This would also explain why Doc Murray was able to leave the room. There are assisted suicide practices where the doctor prepares everything and the patient takes the medicine.
This would not cause any legal consequences as to hoaxing as long as no law is broken and no fraud is commited in causing damages to third parties.
So if there is a friend's body involved, Doc Murray must be in - in treating the person and in preparing for the paramedics to arrive. Ben Evenstad must be in and Harvey must be in for delivering the initial material for copy and paste journalism supporting the cover-up. The paramedics and the coroner must be in.
For the hoax, the family must be in and will love to be in.
For the sting, the players in court partially must be in: the defense of Doc Murray and the judge and key players in the background giving the legal frame (and the weather forecast LOL). The prosecution must not be in, the Sheriff must not be in (they may be targets), the jury must not be in. Some witnesses were smiling too much - either of boredom or of vanity over the "non-professional specialists" asking all these questions or because they could not help it and gave it away. I was impressed by the steelhard nerves of Mrs. Nguyen btw.
This is the complete witness list so far:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/michael-jackson-trial/la-me-conrad-murray-witnesses-whos-who,0,744052.htmlstory (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/michael-jackson-trial/la-me-conrad-murray-witnesses-whos-who,0,744052.htmlstory)
If the prosecution is target, the weak defense could voluntarily give away areas to attack to get prosecution into full speed. Whether this would be entrapment, too, is beyond my horizon of CA law and order.
If the Sheriff is target, the many deputies in the room may explain why the media and court cooperate so well. It is not required to get so many staff exchanging duty hours in the court room - I mean we can stay there for hours, so could they, couldn't they?
Everything else from the media circus to the fan whoopla to the confusion and wide range of interpretations to get some structure back into the unexplainable (mine included LOL) happened after the initial snowball got pace and didn't need anybody to be in anymore.
If anything, I learned to laugh about myself the most in these years. It's a true asset.
Blessings.
Post by: Thriller4ever on October 16, 2011, 02:34:22 AM
There could be the possibility of having used the body of a person who is sick with an incurable disease and connected to equipment artificial and disconnect these equipment the day June 25? /pull hair/ bangbangThat's what I thought in the beginning of the hoax. Michael with his huge heart...May have found out about one of his impersonators dying...took him in. He had whatever problems medically that the autopsy said. Murray treated him. They used the death date to unplug life support. The time it took to call the emts was to remove the life support and stage the room. The only ones who knew/know are Murray, the kids and coroner. This is a hoax on the media, who screwed Michael all his life..and about believing what is written in the media. I don't particularly believe it anymore, although I do think it feasible.
it's definitely possible...
No, it's not possible. It's not even slightly possible. Souza just got done proving that's not possible a couple pages back. But again, her post is just a recap of things that have long been known, she just did a public service and compiled it into an easy to read format after consulting a reliable source.
This is part of the problem. People chose not to educate themselves and then proceed to participate in the discussion. This is not helpful. This is why we run in circles as RK just got done saying.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're an example of what I just said. Go read the thread from the beginning.
Sorry for being misleading bec, L.O.V.E.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 16, 2011, 09:22:04 AM
Let's ASSUME that the DA/Judge/Cooley are target of the sting. I don't believe that, but let's say they are. Why need a dead body? Neither of them has seen the body as far as I'm concerned, and are going by documents from the LAPD, LAFD, hospital and coroner's office. Those documents are all fabricated and there was no need for a real corpse to make those documents, plus the 'targets' didn't need to see the corpse. So if the they are the target, there is no need for a real body.
If the coroner's office is the target, then you would have to use a real fresh corpse, that looks like Mike and will die of acute propofol intoxication, because if the AR is 'legit', then it means the person on the table was healthy as a fish. It also means that the picture shown in court would be a real picture and that confirms the corpse really looked like MJ. You can't perform plastic surgery on a corpse, because the wounds won't heal. So that means they did plastic surgery on the living person, that was healthy as a fish, just to kill him later with propofol for MJ's hoax. That doesn't sound very plausible. Like I said, if the patient would have been ill and would have died because of a terminal illness, the coroner would have noticed and we would have seen in the AR that the patient was sick. Problem with a terminally ill patient is that it is quite risky to put him under for plastic surgery because he might not survive the propofol, lol. So if the coroner is not in on it, and the AR is based on a real corpse, then TS has a good point with his murder theory.
They only sting in my opinion that requires a real corpse, is a sting against the LAPD. There is one or maybe two that allegedly saw the body and I believe they could be fooled, but in that case we still have a problem, because we have the autopsy and hospital pictures, that show us a 'corpse' that looks like Michael. So that means they still had a corpse looking like Michael to show them, see my above objections. Besides that, if the FBI is helping Mike with this because of corruption they found inside the police dept. during the allegations, then I have to ask again: why 'die' in LA and not in Santa Barbara? Why didn't he move back to Neverland and die there? Because the main ones investigating him back then was the SBPD.
If the sting is against the pharmaceutical industry, then there is also no need for a corpse, because none of them have seen a corpse.
And as for the 'proof of death' the autopsy pic could mean since the targets (whoever they are) might be reading here and be aware of a possible hoax: they will then also read here why that autopsy pic is far from proof of death.
Anyway, I hope I made clear what I mean and why I still can't see how and why a real corpse would have been used, even though I am pretty certain that there is a sting going on. Maybe the witnesses of the defense will shine more light on the focus of the sting.
But I stand with my theory: Sting operation, trial could be a part of it but I am not sure yet in what way, hoax court, no real corpse.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 16, 2011, 09:38:52 AM
I just don't see it.
A sting is supposed to catch a person committing a crime. So what crime can that person committ now? The crime was already committed.
I don't understand.
Or do you guys talk about a sting in a symbolical way ?
Like exposing immoral facts going on that the public is not aware of?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 16, 2011, 09:46:15 AM
I see nothing of this kind , at least not now.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 16, 2011, 10:01:01 AM
The ride isn't over yet. When prosecution rests and defense brings in their own witnesses, I think it will blow all of us away. The story is still writing itself and we are simply standing by, watching the world 'mind its business' and care only for itself. We will never completely understand what MJ has planned, or if he has anything planned at all (not an option for me!)
Now I know its cliche as hell, but it applies to every post on here...
Keep Watchin' ::P
Post by: Sarahli on October 16, 2011, 10:48:40 AM
Maybe that a corpse (if there is one, we're just theorizing) isn't useful for the sting itself but to make "things flow" and make the less people involved. I am thinking about the medical staff at UCLA. There was quite a number of people assisting Dr Cooper according to her testimony in court. There are 2 options that I can see here. Or her testimony is a lie/fake/scripted and no one worked on any body, or this medical staff really was present and assisting the doctor, and then must have made been seen a real dead body because there is no way they could have been fooled by a dummy and no reason to make them all be in on it, this would involve too many people. Now there is the autopsy picture who certainly wouldn't look like the corpse used, but TS suggested "the power of suggestion". It's possible that the people were so caught up in their work and the emergency situation, they were told it was Michael that they just believed it was him and have no acute recollection of the corpse physical appearance as it happened more than 2 years ago so their memory certainly isn't clear.
I believe the coroner is in on it and the AR is fake. IF a corpse has been used it certainly is not to fool him. The terminally ill patient could have been used to fool the paramedics who have not testified, those who said they didn't recognize Michael and that he looked like a frail, old man. What about them? Only KEY people need to have "recognized" Michael and be in on it, the others do not need to be involved.
About the Pespsi incident it very well could tie in with the sting against doctor(s). They can have perfectly saw this as an "opportunity" to invent false problems about the burns in order to make Michael a "faithful client". The pictures we've been shown during the trial as I said could very well represent something that happened in Michael's life.
About the documentary you linked I watched it again and it's worth that people do it, the other links too, there's a lot to take in and it cannot be summarized unfortunately. Just wanted to quote this; the narrator of the documentary says at one point "People emerged from the shadows in masks with pills and needles to provide a new Hollywood service and to become his new family" in reference to the Pepsi accident=they made Michael addicted to certain drugs on purpose. Worth listening to "Monster" and "Morphine" again imo.
Brian Oxman reports this from Michael: "Brian I hire the people that steal from me the least" which gives an idea of what kind of people Michael had to deal with. No one to be trusted.
One last point. I wonder what happened to the bloody shirt found in the closet? They normally should have carried out tests to define blood type and DNA. I wonder if it's going to be presented as "evidence"?
Souza:
Quote
As for the coroner: he can not be fooled. According to the pathologist I talked to, there is no way that a coroner wouldn't notice a body has been in deep freeze before.
Thanks for your research Souza. I think the same the coroner has to be in on it, in all cases actually. Now this can give some value to the terminally ill patient theory... needed to fool the paramedics who have not testified. A good question is why they have not testified?
Post by: Grace on October 16, 2011, 11:04:07 AM
Ok so Im_convinced, what exactly is your body theory at this point then? You've stated here recently what it is NOT (not terminal patient, not frozen), but I'm not clear on what exactly it IS.
How does one go about using a refrigerated corpse to fool a coroner? I believe it is not possible to do so without extreme efforts at deception. Even then, I'm not sure it is possible. It is a coroner's job to determine time and cause of death. How would MJ ensure that this was achieved, while simultaneously ensuring that the cause of death be listed as "acute Propofol intoxication". How do you get Propofol to deviate from it's own break down properties and be present in the bloodstream of a long dead person? How do you even get blood to circulate in a long dead person?
In addition, as Souza addressed, what would be the motive? WHO would a real corpse be intended to fool? They're all in on it all the way down the line, from Carrolwood to Coroner. In other words, what's the motive?
I think the simple, easy, first suspicion is correct. There was no body.
I don't get it either...QuoteThey had plenty advance time to add certain features to the corpse like the wig, eyebrow, hairline, lip tattoos to make it more believable it was MJ. That wouldn't be done on the day of death but before hand. The body stayed kept on ice until needed.
Anyways, let's assume it was kept in a fridge, fine by me because the pathologist mentioned that too. A body will go smell rotten after two days, regardless of that fridge. It slows down, it does not stop. As soon as it is placed in a hot room, decomp/rigor sets in very quickly. And will show even more signs of death than a body that was recently frozen.
I still have not heard a plausible motive for a body either and with that refridgerated body, it still has to be a quite fresh corpse. What is the chance that a person would die around that day that looks so much like Mike that a coroner could be fooled. Mike WAS allegedly identified by his DL, which means that if the coroner is not in on it, the DL had to match the corpse. Oh, and besides looking like him, it needed to have vitiligo as well.
Sorry, but I rest my case. The coroner is in on it, there is no need for an autopsy on a random corpse. There is also no reason for a real corpse for the rest of the witnesses. You either don't get what I mean, or I don't get you, but this is going in circles. Show me one very good reason for a corpse and I will reconsider, but so far you did not give me one.
The coroner had a wide variety of corpses if there was one needed - I am kidding of course
But these appear to be facts in Los Angeles (May 2010):
Quote
According to [David] Smith, the crypt at the coroner comfortably holds 300 bodies. At nearly the halfway point of 2010, the number of bodies currently hovers at 248.
Workers at the coroner's office cremated 756 bodies last year, compared to 708 bodies in 2008. Statistics reveal that for both numbers, next of kin was located and notified for nearly 70 percent of the bodies. In 2007, cremation totaled 655 - no next of kin could be discovered for 245.
[...]
The county morgue, which took care of the unclaimed - cremating them in their facilities at no cost after the coroner had been unable to locate next of kin in over 30 days - stopped accepting bodies from the coroner due to budget issues and a general increase in bodies in February 2009.
[...]
At an average cremation rate of 20 bodies per week and limited crypt space, the coroner hired two private crematories, which charged $150 per body, leaving taxpayers to front the bill, totaling more than $100,000 in 2009.
“For the first time in history, the coroner is actually having to pay to have bodies cremated,” Smith said. “We had to take the money out of other funds.”
[...]
After cremation, the remains are transported to the county cemetery and deposited in neat black boxes which are shelved for two years to see if any family steps forward to claim them.
If they do, it comes at a price tag - $352 to be exact.
And if they don't, a decedent's ashes will be poured into a common grave along with the ashes of hundreds of others.[/l][/l]
http://spot.us/pitches/378-unclaimed-kin-in-los-angeles-piling-up/story (http://spot.us/pitches/378-unclaimed-kin-in-los-angeles-piling-up/story)
This does not mean that the bodies in the coroner's crypt would be all in wonderful shape after 30 days.
But there are enough and increasingly unclaimed corpses that could serve some purpose, that do cost "other funds'" money and that could be posing a financial issue in periods of economic crisis.
I don't consider L.A. adding more cost of freezing to these expenses.
But the technology is certainly available and dozens of corpses as well.
This does not mean that the bodies in the coroner's crypt would be all in wonderful shape after 30 days.
But there are enough and increasingly unclaimed corpses that could serve some purpose, that do cost "other funds'" money and that could be posing a financial issue in periods of economic crisis.
I don't consider L.A. adding more cost of freezing to these expenses.
But the technology is certainly available and dozens of corpses as well.
Post by: Sarahli on October 16, 2011, 11:52:35 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
Post by: scorpionchik on October 16, 2011, 01:26:38 PM
I think this hoax is Michael's war=take over against ALL of them. I don't believe the chain of people in hoax can be that long nor Michael could do it by himself. I think target are people who wanted him dead. There is no problem for MJ to escape with family and bodyguards help, but the quesion is how AR got there and why prosecutor uses photoshopped pictures of "dead" Michael. The answers are they either don't know it is photoshop or it is real but to us looks like fake. I wonder what jury thinks about photos & positive jury is not in hoax. But it is possible that some of them can be believer.
In the worst scenario, MJ was murdered and "clues" that he is alive are spread by the murderer. But what weird is, if Michael was murdered, convicting Murray for involuntary manslaughter would NOT be fair enough for the family and us, and of course to Michael. So, what "justice" Jermain talks about with media arriving at the court? Just to get up to 4 years for Murray?????! That would be stupid if MJ was murdered.
So, Michael should be/is alive.
It's comlicated to figure details out.
I think would be appropriate if no one claims she/he 100% knows everything. We all still assume a lot and there are will be speculations until..........whatever is going to happen for sure, then we will know what the hell is going on and who's hoax is this.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 16, 2011, 03:44:31 PM
Post by: mikesexyjackson on October 16, 2011, 04:04:02 PM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 16, 2011, 04:20:59 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 16, 2011, 04:32:55 PM
Yes it is very frustrating, I hope we won't end up like Elvis Fans ...in 30 years from now still asking is he alive? The only thing I always think is, that a doctor can't be so stupid. NOO WAAY!!!!
Sadly, a doctor CAN be that stupid! They don't teach common sense in school, you either have it or you don't. And when money is involved, and your patient is a 'weak frail sick' man, then a greedy doctor may be negligent. I don't think this is the case. Murray has no previous criminal record. No evidence of Michael's 'death' shows any foul play or premeditated murder. If he is found guilty, he could get maximum 4 years, or less on good behavior, or even house arrest or better yet, a slap on the wrist with probabtion, fines and/or suspension of doctor's license. This man isn't in any serious trouble. He's not looking at 25 to Life.
What intrigues me is WHY Michael decided to hoax his death this way. The reason could very well be to expose doctors who see price tags on patients, ecspecially the rich and addicted; it seems to be the case so far anyway. Or did he do it this way because he wanted to see exactly who would believe he was a hardcore druggie who would be silly enough to have a cardiologist do anesthetic work on him, without a medical staff to help, appropriate meds and equipment in case of emergency, without a heart monitor, better quality pulse oximeter (C'mon doc! wth?!?)? A doctor who has nothing but the highest praises from his patients (except for the guy who had hurt feelings about CM leaving to work with MJ) administers a drug that has NEVER been practiced outside of a hospital (cue MJ and his brilliant mind). A presumably intelligent, ethical, practical doctor would never do that. I believe that is the man Conrad Murray is. But we will just have to wait and see what the jury thinks. Hmm, I wonder.
Post by: mikesexyjackson on October 16, 2011, 04:52:27 PM
I am a Elvis Presely fan too, I am still waiting lolol/. I said to myself, if I would fake my death, would I come back? NO,, usually if you fake your death it is not to come back. Then in the other hand, Michael is different, totally different from Elvis. Michael hoax death is to apprehend the bad people who wanted him dead. It is a total ball game. Like I said before, I just hope this will end soon, because it is very frustrating.. blessings go all.Still waiting... oh my god. I am an Elvis Fan too. But until now I didn't know he's still alive. However in 1977 I thought that some things were strange like the name on the grave stone, but at that time we had no internet so how could we find out? Michael Jackson is different, that's so true. One never knows when it comes to Michael. He keeps us glued to our seats since 2 long years. Only he can do that! It was always his wish anyway. lolol/
Post by: PureLove on October 16, 2011, 07:04:20 PM
I want to bring this video in favor of a possible sting against doctors. In the police interview Murray mentioned a Dr Adams. This same doctor (David Adams, anesthesiologist) is now suing Murray. We know that Murray is on it, so Adams suing Murray sounds fishy to say the least. La Toya said that Murray was the "fall guy" so seen in this perspective and current events it's becoming clearer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
YES! Thank you for the video Sarahli. It was my first and the only guess the sting was against the medical field (doctors and maybe some pharmacies) And exactly Dr Adams issue sounds fishy to me too and makes my feeling stronger that the sting is against the medical field.
Post by: paula-c on October 16, 2011, 07:22:22 PM
Then, Paula, as Souza asked, who is a real body designed to fool?
It was only one supposition. Now that they think of these images, i see very similar to the photo of the " corpse " and i wonder to go to the hospital the June 25? , ..or these images are not in reality the June 25. First in the house, then it appears as a paramedic and finally the " body "
(http://www.smiletheweb.com/mj/Behind-the-fence-04.gif)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/detall10.jpg)
Post by: bec on October 16, 2011, 08:02:44 PM
What intrigues me is WHY Michael decided to hoax his death this way.
I am convinced he did it this way to parallel Elvis's death.
The problem with a doctor sting, among other things, is we have no history or past pattern of behavior that links MJ to concerns about addiction in Hollywood and the problem of shady doctors.
There's a lot of problems in this world... you know?
Don't you think MJ is more concerned with the plight of children, the environment, the media and their ability to twist the facts, and the music business giving black artists a fair shake? MJ has always been vocal about these things.
Why would he suddenly switch gears and be so concerned about shady doctors feeding addiction problems that he would design his whole death hoax around it?
Makes no sense to me.
Makes more sense that he chose to do it this way to parallel Elvis's death AND to illustrate how someone can be tried, convicted, and sentenced by the media, who then influence the general public to do the same... and in doing so, media creates our (collective) reality and guides our perception of events. This is a great deal of power. Scary levels of power. This fact makes the media the MOST powerful, and therefore the most dangerous entity on the planet.
You know?
Post by: SimPattyK on October 16, 2011, 08:48:59 PM
[....]Wow, I have to say that was THE rudest think I've read on here [....]You are not alone! just so you know...
[...]examples of BEING UNEDUCATED AND STILL PARTICIPATING [...]
[...] Where is the love in OUR group with talk like THAT?? [...]
I know how you feel! been there...
[....]... then maybe we'll just stay out of your discussion. [...]I've reached to the same conclusion...
I content myself to just reading... and maybe posting on rare occasions.
But my desire to involve myself in debates...has disappeared...
Post by: BeTheChange on October 16, 2011, 09:11:10 PM
As 'guilty' and as dispicable that the media has been to Mike over the years...they are pretty much, at least from the coverage I've seen, just 'covering' the trial. HLN has two reporters in the courtroom and they come out and report what we all just heard in the courtroom. The rest of the reporters who aren't on scene...watch the exact same trial everyone else watches and report on witnesses and court testimony. Unlike the 2005 trial, I haven't seen any reporters say something completely opposite of what was said in court...and the worst they've insinuated is that Murray may be found guilty. Based on all the testimony I have heard so far...I'd be reporting the same thing because as it stands right now Murray looks pretty damn guilty. Of course, the defense hasn't presented their case yet and things may change....but I've also heard many reporters reminding 'viewers' of that. I've also seen and heard many reporters speak very highly of Mike...have people on their shows speaking very highly of Mike...even some reporters who weren't so nice to MJ over the years.
The point is...the worst these reporters are guilty of is reporting what is actually happening in a court of law. Sure...they could later be blamed for not investigating the 'death' of Mike and as 'investigative' reporters the case could be made that they didn't go as far into their 'job description' as they should have. But, in THIS case...the Murray trial...if something drastic doesn't occur in the next couple weeks...I just don't see how any 'media' sting will have any impact beyond the initial shock. Most of the world is not following the trial on a day to day basis...if they've ever had an interest in MJ, they may tune-in in the evening to hear the latest...or hear a 'soundbite' of it in passing while watching the 'news' for non-MJ related info.
I'm sure that whenever BAM occurs, the world will stop....just as it did when MJ 'died'. But then what? He announces that he faked his death to show us that the media lies? For one, I think that even most 'sheeple' believe that media 'lies'...so there wouldn't be a huge awakening over that. Also, the media's defense would be they were just covering the trial...they televised it so everyone could watch it and then reported on the days' events. Sure, they wouldn't come out looking like gold...perhaps they have been too quick to speculate on the outcome of the trial...but even then, I don't see it causing a huge awakening on the masses. I think that IF Michael did all this to send a message, then it's got to be more than that.
That doesn't mean that there's a 'sting' on docs or pharmacies or anyone. But it would mean that we have to think bigger than just the 'media' and 'fans'. Everything we've learned over the past 2 years points to it being bigger than that. At the end of it all....no matter how 'bad' the media may come off looking over their coverage of the trial...'they' are simply just puppets paid to do the bidding of those lurking in the shadows. It's THOSE shadows that I can see the likes of Mike going after...IMO, the so-called reporter-morons aren't worth Mike's time, nor his 'death'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. It really sucks to see 'in-house' fighting on the board. No matter how much we 'think' we know...a 'reality check' should shed light on the fact that, at this point anyway, nothing can be concretely 'proven'. Mike set it up that way....and I'm sure he'd want us, the beLIEvers, to get along...even when we're frustrated. At times, it's really difficult to see how we have understood the most important message of all...that it's all for L.O.V.E. If one of the things WE are being 'tested' on is spreading love to each other...then I'm afraid we aren't there just yet.
Post by: paula-c on October 16, 2011, 09:23:23 PM
Okay, one last try to see if I can explain what I mean in regards to the real corpse...
Let's ASSUME that the DA/Judge/Cooley are target of the sting. I don't believe that, but let's say they are. Why need a dead body? Neither of them has seen the body as far as I'm concerned, and are going by documents from the LAPD, LAFD, hospital and coroner's office. Those documents are all fabricated and there was no need for a real corpse to make those documents, plus the 'targets' didn't need to see the corpse. So if the they are the target, there is no need for a real body.
If the coroner's office is the target, then you would have to use a real fresh corpse, that looks like Mike and will die of acute propofol intoxication, because if the AR is 'legit', then it means the person on the table was healthy as a fish. It also means that the picture shown in court would be a real picture and that confirms the corpse really looked like MJ. You can't perform plastic surgery on a corpse, because the wounds won't heal. So that means they did plastic surgery on the living person, that was healthy as a fish, just to kill him later with propofol for MJ's hoax. That doesn't sound very plausible. Like I said, if the patient would have been ill and would have died because of a terminal illness, the coroner would have noticed and we would have seen in the AR that the patient was sick. Problem with a terminally ill patient is that it is quite risky to put him under for plastic surgery because he might not survive the propofol, lol. So if the coroner is not in on it, and the AR is based on a real corpse, then TS has a good point with his murder theory.
They only sting in my opinion that requires a real corpse, is a sting against the LAPD. There is one or maybe two that allegedly saw the body and I believe they could be fooled, but in that case we still have a problem, because we have the autopsy and hospital pictures, that show us a 'corpse' that looks like Michael. So that means they still had a corpse looking like Michael to show them, see my above objections. Besides that, if the FBI is helping Mike with this because of corruption they found inside the police dept. during the allegations, then I have to ask again: why 'die' in LA and not in Santa Barbara? Why didn't he move back to Neverland and die there? Because the main ones investigating him back then was the SBPD.
If the sting is against the pharmaceutical industry, then there is also no need for a corpse, because none of them have seen a corpse.
And as for the 'proof of death' the autopsy pic could mean since the targets (whoever they are) might be reading here and be aware of a possible hoax: they will then also read here why that autopsy pic is far from proof of death.
Anyway, I hope I made clear what I mean and why I still can't see how and why a real corpse would have been used, even though I am pretty certain that there is a sting going on. Maybe the witnesses of the defense will shine more light on the focus of the sting.
But I stand with my theory: Sting operation, trial could be a part of it but I am not sure yet in what way, hoax court, no real corpse.
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Post by: BeTheChange on October 16, 2011, 09:40:58 PM
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Paula, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly...but if I am, then it would support (especially the bolded part) what Back said in his 'theory/vision' post...not as a question, but as a statement of fact:
Quote
Throughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
and:
Quote
Arms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on October 16, 2011, 11:20:12 PM
Then, Paula, as Souza asked, who is a real body designed to fool?
It was only one supposition. Now that they think of these images, i see very similar to the photo of the " corpse " and i wonder to go to the hospital the June 25? , ..or these images are not in reality the June 25. First in the house, then it appears as a paramedic and finally the " body "
(http://www.smiletheweb.com/mj/Behind-the-fence-04.gif)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/detall10.jpg)
I LOVE YOU paula-c!!!!!!!!!! This video of looking through the fence or gate is awesome...I love how slow it is and that it's looped......it helps a ton. I have wondered about this particular video piece.......when/where exactly was it shot. I don't see an easy access point from that fence or gate to gain that type of shot, but OK, go with it. That's not what I am loving. I have said from day one that the shadows are off for the time of day in the ambulance videos. Here...look at this video of the backing out ambulance....at around 1:01 you see the fireman standing there guiding the ambulance backwards. Notice his shadow and the direction of the the shadow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44
Now, look at this video paula-c posted. Who it is, we can't be sure...but look at his shadow. These are supposedly taken close together....Michael being loaded, and Michael's ambulance backing out....not a huge timeframe, yet, the shadows tell a different story....completely.
I will dig around more...I posted a bunch about the shadows early on.....will see if anything stands out clearer now after 2+years.
Thank you again paula-c.......
Blessings
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 01:19:43 AM
Post by: bec on October 17, 2011, 01:26:15 AM
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Paula, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly...but if I am, then it would support (especially the bolded part) what Back said in his 'theory/vision' post...not as a question, but as a statement of fact:
QuoteThroughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
To be fair, you have it quoted out of context. In context back is referring to the child molestation allegations, in other words, they tried to destroy him with charcter assassination instead of physical assassination. In this entire post, he doesn ot refer to MJ's death. Only to the memorial.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/OfatHeOrYorVision3.jpg)
Quote
and:This was back's grand post-6/25 re-entrance at MJJC. It was a profound moment considering many members openly believed he was MJ. Notice in that entire post he never says MJ is dead. He words it extremely carefully so as to subtly suggest death, so if you read it assuming MJ is dead, you are also likely to assume that back is eulogizing MJ. But he's not at all. It's extremely clever wording.
QuoteArms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Presumably he posted this on MJJC as a test of sorts. Those who didn't pay attention to detail and failed to read in between the lines would take it as a sign that back never was MJ after all, since here he was posting on 11/18/09. Meanwhile, those who looked closer had more questions. He's not lying but he's also not saying MJ is dead.
The poisoned through the veins is what the news reports were saying about MJ at the time so it was a relevant comparison to Jesus Christ, who's end result was resurrection.
If MJ had out smarted a hit man sent to kill him, would he be posting about it on a message board?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 01:40:47 AM
Post by: bec on October 17, 2011, 01:51:23 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/625092difkings.jpg)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 08:04:44 AM
In that context it looks to me that he is talking about Michael :-\.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 17, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 17, 2011, 08:58:08 AM
I ended the quoted part of Back's post intentionally at "Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds". He specifically says many OTHER (his caps not mine) attempts...and that those attempts failed. The child molestation charges were among those OTHER attempts...and Back then does go on to discuss the charges...but one could say he is discussing them as part of those OTHER (past) attempts and not necessarily the LAST or final attempt on MJ's demise. And when taken in context with "physically no more", as Gina pointed out, not to mention him stating "many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises"...it's not a far stretch to think he could be hinting at a possible 'hit' on Mike's life (the 333 pages of FBI files could also support this 'interpretation').
Looking at it that way...one interpretation could be that 'they'...whoever 'they' are... had tried many times (over a 2-decade long period) to destroy Mike....not necessarily kill him but destroy him. But those (OTHER) attempts failed because no matter how many times 'they' struck, Mike took the hit and somehow bounced back (no pun intended :lol: ). Realizing 'they' were not succeeding at their attempts...perhaps 'they' finally upped the ante and figured the only way to SILENCE Mike was to kill him. BUT...unlike "up until 20 years ago" where it "was always by the bullet"...'they' faced the problem(s) of "awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic"....not to mention physically 'getting' to Mike to kill him.
Since out of all the possible ways Mike could've chosen to fake his 'death'...he chose one that centers on a doctor injecting him with a drug...the other part I quoted also takes on a different interpretation in the context I've outlined above:
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
I am in NO way trying to disagree with Bec and/or the prevailing interpretation just for the sake of disagreeing...I am genuinely trying to look at other possible interpretations of that post from Back. Front has made mention of it specifically and has said that "interpretation is KEY". Given the fact that I'm sure Front has read our prevailing interpretation many times...perhaps it was his way of hinting at a 'shift in perspective'.
Since neither Back, TS, nor Front have explained that post (or any of Back's posts) line by line to tell us exactly what was meant by it....none of us can know its exact true meaning...all we have is our interpretation of it. Just trying to expand on that interpretation.
Quote
If MJ had out smarted a hit man sent to kill him, would he be posting about it on a message board?
Good question and not one that I can provide an answer to because I don't know what Mike would or would not do....nor do I want to assume to know what he'd do. But given the fact that even 2 years later....we are still trying to decifer what he meant in that post...I think it's safe to say that, like everything else in this genius of a hoax....Mike left everything open to interpretation and nothing is easily proven by anyone...and that includes any possible 'hit man'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Sarahli on October 17, 2011, 09:22:46 AM
I want to bring this video in favor of a possible sting against doctors. In the police interview Murray mentioned a Dr Adams. This same doctor (David Adams, anesthesiologist) is now suing Murray. We know that Murray is on it, so Adams suing Murray sounds fishy to say the least. La Toya said that Murray was the "fall guy" so seen in this perspective and current events it's becoming clearer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
YES! Thank you for the video Sarahli. It was my first and the only guess the sting was against the medical field (doctors and maybe some pharmacies) And exactly Dr Adams issue sounds fishy to me too and makes my feeling stronger that the sting is against the medical field.
Yes and I have wondered why they showed his card as evidence during the trial. I don't remember the exact reason apart from the fact that it's been found in Murray's car:
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5289/adamscard.jpg)
I believe the sting is just one layer of the Hoax, and the sting itself is most probably multy-layered :lol: ... a little like the hoax within a hoax, painting withing a painting pattern if you will.
TS put it very well so I'm just quoting him again because this is what I believe the Hoax is for, something phenomenal, colossal.
Quote
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I agree with you BeTheChange about the interpretation of Back's post, I believe that there were several attempts by Michael's enemies "to end the [dot]physical existence[/dot] of the most famous person walking this Earth". I'm thinking of the meeting Michael was supposed to have at the world trade center for example... was this one of those other attempts? Michael being under God's watchful, protective and caring eye, these attempts have failed and the end result will be Victory and Justice served. /judge/
"Physically--no more" probably means that we can't see Michael physically because of the hoax death. He is still alive but "hiding" until he comes back and reveal himself physically to the world. Like bec said the words are carefully chosen, hence why the interpretation is "KEY".
Post by: ilovemjforever on October 17, 2011, 09:36:16 AM
If there is a sting, then there is no way FBI operates apart from DA. Sting operation ends before trial. The fake AR is possible only if there is a sting. But if DA is in sting, they would not use fake AR in the court to prove Murray's involuntary manslaughter. There is no possibility for prosecutor to act as a clown to hide some sting operation outside the court. Does not make sense at all. Finally, again, there is no need to sting to investigate and place charges on pharmacies or doctors. It is already being openly discussed.I agree with your post completely scorpionchik.It has to be a hoax,cause there is no justice if Murray really killed M.J and the most he could get is 4 years.The murder theory,is possible,but very unlikely.I have been questioning lately about the possibility that the evil doers could be watching us on these forums,and trying to fool us.I dont believe they could pull this off without the family being involved,and we know that the family want have a role in that,so M.J is alive and i believe this is a hoax and a sting with many layers.
I think this hoax is Michael's war=take over against ALL of them. I don't believe the chain of people in hoax can be that long nor Michael could do it by himself. I think target are people who wanted him dead. There is no problem for MJ to escape with family and bodyguards help, but the quesion is how AR got there and why prosecutor uses photoshopped pictures of "dead" Michael. The answers are they either don't know it is photoshop or it is real but to us looks like fake. I wonder what jury thinks about photos & positive jury is not in hoax. But it is possible that some of them can be believer.
In the worst scenario, MJ was murdered and "clues" that he is alive are spread by the murderer. But what weird is, if Michael was murdered, convicting Murray for involuntary manslaughter would NOT be fair enough for the family and us, and of course to Michael. So, what "justice" Jermain talks about with media arriving at the court? Just to get up to 4 years for Murray?????! That would be stupid if MJ was murdered.
So, Michael should be/is alive.
It's comlicated to figure details out.
I think would be appropriate if no one claims she/he 100% knows everything. We all still assume a lot and there are will be speculations until..........whatever is going to happen for sure, then we will know what the hell is going on and who's hoax is this.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 17, 2011, 09:56:33 AM
It's by no means a 'coherent' theory yet...and may never be...but could it have been 'their' first failed attempt at destroying (or even killing) Mike? If so, how would that factor in to the current scenario we have with Murray (a doctor) on trial for killing MJ? Are there any events following that 'accident' that could shed light on a possible 'sting' on doctors and/or those who tried 'killing' him in the past? Hmmm...not sure it fits at all....but again, the significance of it being the mid-point of his life, mixed in with the tape of the 'accident' mysteriously appearing shortly after his 'death' (when he supposedly had the only copy)...keep nagging at me because those factors suggest GREAT importance in Mike choosing June 25th to begin the 'illusion'.
Perhaps Mike didn't even realize the significance of the Pepsi 'accident' until years later....maybe 'hindsight' doesn't only apply to us in understanding past events. I have to think on it more...and again, even though significant...it may not have anything directly to do with Murray (or better yet, the 'symbolism' of a doctor) 'killing' Mike...but I do think there's more to it than just a freakish 'accident'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 17, 2011, 10:43:00 AM
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
Post by: Grace on October 17, 2011, 11:07:05 AM
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5289/adamscard.jpg)
What is this? A busines card or a joke?
A business card is about the company where one is employee or boss.
It is not about any financial accounts receivables management service. ???
I don't state the post office on my business card just because they handle my letters. LOL
Unless... well, this may serve as a trace to the money trail or to some other indication.
Fact is that Dr. Adams has several addresses in L.V. in the web and all are affiliated with Physicians Billing Service LLC.
There are several addresses of Physicians Billing Services in Las Vegas and this is the one stated on the card:
Quote
Adams David J DO (http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Adams.David.J.DO.702-386-4700) 2635 Box Canyon Drhttp://us.56abc.cn/NV/Las-Vegas/445633009/Physicians-Billing-Services.html (http://us.56abc.cn/NV/Las-Vegas/445633009/Physicians-Billing-Services.html)
Las Vegas , NV 89128
702-386-4700
This is their building in an office parc where several medical services are offered as well:
(http://streetview.merchantcircle.com/170X128/1/0/4/1/5801041.JPG)
However, in the web Dr. Adams is listed under this address:
Quote
Dr. David Adams (http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/david_jeffrey_adams/)http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/nevada/anesthesiology/Las_Vegas.html (http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/nevada/anesthesiology/Las_Vegas.html)
Anesthesiology PBS Anesthesia
7326 W Cheyenne Ave
Las Vegas, NV 89129
Interestingly, there is another company at exactly this address that works in billing services:
Quote
Physicians Billing Services LLC (http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Physicians.Billing.Services.LLC.702-386-4700) 7326 W Cheyenne Avehttp://pbslv.com/ (http://pbslv.com/)
Las Vegas , NV 89129
702-386-4700
If you google for "Dr. David Adams Las Vegas", this comes up, too:
Quote
PBS Anesthesia (http://www.healthgrades.com/group-directory/nevada-nv/las-vegas/-fd0b0a85) 620 Shadow Lane Las Vegas, NV 89106 Phone: (702) 386-4700http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-david-adams-yv62w/office-locations (http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-david-adams-yv62w/office-locations)
This address derives from a hospital affiliation with
Quote
Valley Hospital Medical Center (http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/david_jeffrey_adams/hospital.html)http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/david_jeffrey_adams/hospital.html (http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/david_jeffrey_adams/hospital.html)
620 Shadow Ln
Las Vegas, NV 89106
(702) 388-4000
TMZ had to say this on Doc Adams in February:
Quote
MJ Was On the Hunt For The Perfect Anesthesiologist 2/17/2011 6:00 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF MJ Was On the Hunt For The Perfect Anesthesiologist Michael Jackson was such a hard-core drug addict ... he actually interviewed an anesthesiologist to follow him to London to "take care of him."http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/16/michael-jackson-anesthesiologist-doctor-london-tour-investigation-lapd/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/16/michael-jackson-anesthesiologist-doctor-london-tour-investigation-lapd/)
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/16/0216-michael-jackson-conrad-ex-getty.jpg)
Jackson -- who had a well-documented Propofol addiction for years before his death -- tried recruiting Dr. David Adams, a Las Vegas anesthesiologist, to go on tour with him in 2009.
We've learned Dr. Adams told LAPD investigators that several months before MJ's death ... Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael met with Dr. Adams and said, "We think it would be great to have an anesthesiologist go on the [This Is It] tour."
Turns out Dr. Adams had a history with Michael ... he had put MJ under with Propofol four times in two years for various procedures.
Adams thought about it and texted Murray, "I'd like to be on board. Let's talk about it." But MJ and Murray never contacted him again.
Murray's defense team spokesperson Miranda Sevcik says, "Dr. Murray did not know David Adams." But Sevcik did say the defense has subpoenaed Dr. Adams for the trial.
Why should a Nevada-only licenced anesthesiologist be contacted by a Houston based cardiologist to treat a patient in Los Angeles and Europe?
Why does he have several addresses - all for scheduling and billing services (most likely for office administration services as well)?
Does he not have a permanent office himself?
Why are anesthesiologists being labelled for "pain management" when usually anesthesiology is a physician specialty for putting people under for procedures in hospitals?
Btw, Dr. Adams's special expertise is "body weight" and "pain" as a family doctor. Family doctor?
http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_David_J_Adams.html (http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_David_J_Adams.html)
Post by: paula-c on October 17, 2011, 11:10:55 AM
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
Paula, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly...but if I am, then it would support (especially the bolded part) what Back said in his 'theory/vision' post...not as a question, but as a statement of fact:
QuoteThroughout the decades of the modern tIMEs we live, many Great figures have suffered untIMEly demises. Deep reflection of these occurrences will or should give you great pause. The easiest approach up until about 20 years ago was always by the bullet. What changed the trend? Well, along came awareness, suspicion, and non-acceptance of "stories" that carry potholes in logic. Thus, it demanded a necessity for more elaborate plans of execution that are now used as a means of thwarting the full truth. This process had to be in magnification ten fold in order to end the physical existence of the most famous person walking this Earth. Many OTHER attempts had failed, even though they left enormous wounds.
To be fair, you have it quoted out of context. In context back is referring to the child molestation allegations, in other words, they tried to destroy him with charcter assassination instead of physical assassination. In this entire post, he doesn ot refer to MJ's death. Only to the memorial.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/OfatHeOrYorVision3.jpg)Quoteand:This was back's grand post-6/25 re-entrance at MJJC. It was a profound moment considering many members openly believed he was MJ. Notice in that entire post he never says MJ is dead. He words it extremely carefully so as to subtly suggest death, so if you read it assuming MJ is dead, you are also likely to assume that back is eulogizing MJ. But he's not at all. It's extremely clever wording.
QuoteArms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins.
Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins.
Two different Kings, with different Reigns.
And The End result shall be the same.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Presumably he posted this on MJJC as a test of sorts. Those who didn't pay attention to detail and failed to read in between the lines would take it as a sign that back never was MJ after all, since here he was posting on 11/18/09. Meanwhile, those who looked closer had more questions. He's not lying but he's also not saying MJ is dead.
The poisoned through the veins is what the news reports were saying about MJ at the time so it was a relevant comparison to Jesus Christ, who's end result was resurrection.
If MJ had out smarted a hit man sent to kill him, would he be posting about it on a message board?
No, i do not i wanted say that this is the case of Michael that i just don't know, my comment was on a wider stage what might be happening for a long time to many famous people who have died in Hollywood and their cases have been closed as " accidents "
Post by: BeTheChange on October 17, 2011, 11:20:39 AM
@TS...if you're following along, it would be REALLY great for you to give us all some feedback on our discussions.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 17, 2011, 11:29:43 AM
Who do you think is he talking about when he says physically no more?
In that context it looks to me that he is talking about Michael :-\ .
I agree, he talks about Michael and my first imression was exactly the same, meaning MJ physically no more=dead. But then I think it also could mean Michael is NOT coming back, therefore physically won't be with us, but he is not dead, otherwise how we can explain "take over the world" phrase ? If MJ died, what take over Back was talking about?
Post by: fordtocarr on October 17, 2011, 11:43:35 AM
abc7MurrayTrial (http://twitter.com/#%21/abc7MurrayTrial) ABC7 Murray Trial @
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 11:51:01 AM
Who do you think is he talking about when he says physically no more?
In that context it looks to me that he is talking about Michael :-\ .
I agree, he talks about Michael and my first imression was exactly the same, meaning MJ physically no more=dead. But then I think it also could mean Michael is NOT coming back, therefore physically won't be with us, but he is not dead, otherwise how we can explain "take over the world" phrase ? If MJ died, what take over Back was talking about?
The take over of a martyr/legend after death.
Death "absolves" him of all alleged sins, "sanctifying" him.
As strange as it sounds, death made him immortal. That's the take over.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 12:03:50 PM
“With all the ingredients—is it Simmering---can you smell it—how long before the “pie” is done.” – As many have realized, IT would have been greatness to an infinite degree.
Mr. Jackson--- you know I still have your back--- until my end.
Connected"
So he is saying TII "would have been greatness to an infinite degree".....would have been. This sounds a little like death to me....would have been, but it wasn't because the main character died.
"Mr. Jackson--- you know I still have your back" means Back and MJ are 2 different persons :-\.
But in other posts Back implied that he was MJ - directly or by not answering to members who almost asked him straight if he was Michael. Such a character would be banned in normal conditions.
I don't understand a thing crash/ crash/ /overreacting/ /overreacting/ /overreacting/ /scream/ /scream/ /pull hair/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 17, 2011, 12:07:36 PM
What intrigues me is WHY Michael decided to hoax his death this way.
I am convinced he did it this way to parallel Elvis's death.
The problem with a doctor sting, among other things, is we have no history or past pattern of behavior that links MJ to concerns about addiction in Hollywood and the problem of shady doctors.
There's a lot of problems in this world... you know?
Don't you think MJ is more concerned with the plight of children, the environment, the media and their ability to twist the facts, and the music business giving black artists a fair shake? MJ has always been vocal about these things.
Why would he suddenly switch gears and be so concerned about shady doctors feeding addiction problems that he would design his whole death hoax around it?
Makes no sense to me.
Makes more sense that he chose to do it this way to parallel Elvis's death AND to illustrate how someone can be tried, convicted, and sentenced by the media, who then influence the general public to do the same... and in doing so, media creates our (collective) reality and guides our perception of events. This is a great deal of power. Scary levels of power. This fact makes the media the MOST powerful, and therefore the most dangerous entity on the planet.
You know?
I know!
I remember hearing Mike on MJ Tapes say that nothing else matters to him, nothing else interests him. He says children are all he cares about. So I get your point of the hoax. I just like to look at every option because you just never know with Michael. He's always surprising us and I constantly think about him in 2002 saying: "They thought my mind was always on music. It usually is. But they never thought that I could outsmart them." A sting is what I would love to see done on Motolla, but I do not believe he is a target for a sting if there in fact is one. And as a woman who's mother abused prescription drugs years ago, I would love to see a sting done on these money hungry crack docs who don't care about human life. and a sting done on the pharmecutical companies who encourage it and finance it. If there is a sting on pharm and docs, I do not believe MJ is working alone. I think THRIVE will give clues to us. I feel maybe MJ has his hands in the docu. I mean MJ could have many reasons for a hoax or sting. Marilyn Monroe, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett, Keith Moon, Billie Holliday, Heath Ledger, Brittany Murphy, Amy Winehouse and a lot of other influential people are dead from drug abuse. Were some of these deaths accidental, or were some of them murders? A sting on Hollywood drug pushers and doctors giving out pres. meds like its licorice seems like MJ's cup of tea to me. He is 50 years old, and we have such a small number of interviews from him compared to his 40 years of fame. We don't know all about him that we think we do. He had more books in Neverland than a public library, he is a researcher by heart. Jermaine found him reading two books: Marriage & Divorce, and a book on Accounting lol. He wants to heal the world and heal our children, but I believe he may want to expose some other problems. "We got drug addiction and the mind of the weak." -(Why You Wanna Trip On Me?)
Now a sting on the media is a given. They have messed with Mike for decades and now they are messing themselves up. They are so comfortable in the position of judger, but when this is all said and done they will be exposed for reporting nothing but drama, twisting stories, focusing on baby mamas and not on the audio recording being so obviously fake, autopsy pic being so obviously fake, witnesses contradicting one another, etc.
But in that case, it would be a sting on the majority of the world's population who now believe that Michael Jackson was some strung out drugged up has been junkie. Too bad they never got the memo that we got.
Post by: PureLove on October 17, 2011, 12:17:04 PM
I want to bring this video in favor of a possible sting against doctors. In the police interview Murray mentioned a Dr Adams. This same doctor (David Adams, anesthesiologist) is now suing Murray. We know that Murray is on it, so Adams suing Murray sounds fishy to say the least. La Toya said that Murray was the "fall guy" so seen in this perspective and current events it's becoming clearer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZd3ZJDGLM[/youtube]
YES! Thank you for the video Sarahli. It was my first and the only guess the sting was against the medical field (doctors and maybe some pharmacies) And exactly Dr Adams issue sounds fishy to me too and makes my feeling stronger that the sting is against the medical field.
Yes and I have wondered why they showed his card as evidence during the trial. I don't remember the exact reason apart from the fact that it's been found in Murray's car:
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5289/adamscard.jpg)
I believe the sting is just one layer of the Hoax, and the sting itself is most probably multy-layered :lol: ... a little like the hoax within a hoax, painting withing a painting pattern if you will.
Exactly Sarahli. I do believe that the sting is just one of the layers of the hoax. And why not a sting against medical field? When Michael had a chance to kill LOTS of birds with a single stone, there is no reason to think about a 'why' about the sting to the medical field. I would say, why not?
Post by: curls on October 17, 2011, 01:41:53 PM
No court today or tomorrow...
Thank you Ford for posting those updates from the court. It would appear I'm not the only one confused by drug test results!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 02:36:32 PM
I don't know if this is true but if so, really where is sting everybody is talking about?
I might need glasses to see it crash/.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 17, 2011, 02:40:16 PM
I am not quite sure.... BUT If I remember well, from the videos I had seen at the time on youtube, some of them are not even available anymore!! This short film was taken by the same Ben Evenstad, the paparazzi [also Michael's friend] who took that famous fake-ambulance photo!! He gave 2 interviews shortly after June 25th 2009 and what he said in the first one contradicts what he said in the 2nd one! and during one of these 2 interviews, besides the photo, they also showed this short film [without any comments] of this person who looks a lot like Michael dressed exactly as he was dressed at the TII rehearsals one or few days before he "died".[...](http://www.smiletheweb.com/mj/Behind-the-fence-04.gif)[...]I LOVE YOU paula-c!!!!!!!!!! This video of looking through the fence or gate is awesome...I love how slow it is and that it's looped......it helps a ton. I have wondered about this particular video piece.......when/where exactly was it shot. I don't see an easy access point from that fence or gate to gain that type of shot, but OK, go with it. [...]
@WishingStar: If you'd like my opinion on this: I think that either it is Michael who intentionally left himself filmed like that for only 2-3 frames, either it is a look-alike again intentionally placed there to seem like helping getting the stretcher up into the ambulance. All is done just to "spice" up a little bit more the whole hoax-pot! :lol: :lol:
I had made a montage from those videos and other photos I could find at the time... I already posted it in some other topic, but I will repost it here too...
I think I took some of the infos for my montage from this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJPIYDJAVQ&feature=related[/youtube]
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9989/mjmannequinmontaj003.jpg)
I could also find one of the oldest videos...from 2009!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrmlVO_w0T8&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrmlVO_w0T8&feature=related[/youtube]
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 17, 2011, 02:48:17 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on October 17, 2011, 02:48:55 PM
Back's posts are new to me; but I noticed some interesting things... he capitalizes words in strange places so there's some meaning there.Nice observations !!!
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
I especially love the one about the letter H !! ;)
I posted some montages about the hoax and letter H on the last 2 pages of this topic ----)) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html
Post by: Sarahli on October 17, 2011, 03:43:19 PM
From TMZ:
Quote
We've learned Dr. Adams told LAPD investigators that several months before MJ's death ... Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael met with Dr. Adams and said, "We think it would be great to have an anesthesiologist go on the [This Is It] tour.
Adams has already talked with the Police. So there is something going on with this doctor as far as I can see.
Michael could have chosen a complete different scenario/theme for his hoax death but he chose this one specifically, including Propofol. As a such elaborated Plan, no one can say that this hoax trial has no real meaning, on the contrary everything has been planned down to the detail so this specific scenario must held something more to it than the obvious.
TheMoonisdancing
Quote
Marilyn Monroe, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett, Keith Moon, Billie Holliday, Heath Ledger, Brittany Murphy, Amy Winehouse and a lot of other influential people are dead from drug abuse. Were some of these deaths accidental, or were some of them murders?"
Good point. Maybe that Michael wants to expose some ugly truths in regards to Hollywood.
BeTheChange
Quote
Are there any events following that 'accident' that could shed light on a possible 'sting' on doctors and/or those who tried 'killing' him in the past? Hmmm...not sure it fits at all....but again, the significance of it being the mid-point of his life, mixed in with the tape of the 'accident' mysteriously appearing shortly after his 'death' (when he supposedly had the only copy)...keep nagging at me because those factors suggest GREAT importance in Mike choosing June 25th to begin the 'illusion'.
Yes I think too that the Pepsi incident holds many keys and clues. A Dr Hoefflin (another doctor in the list) has been mentioned as being one of those who "cared" for Michael after the "accident", here's what wikipedia has to say about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hoefflin
Front said:
Quote
Past, present & future
Hi(s)Story shall be told
dates, events, numbers intertwine
and whispers shall unfold……….
So the dates in Michael's History are very important. Our theories and thoughts are challenged every time a new information, clue is given to us and hence must be re-examined as often.
---
I read that other tests were to be done.... suspicious// a new ingredient is added in the recipe.... of course it made me think of Front's post: 8-)
Quote
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
roll that dice, gotta check it twice = could mean that other tests have to be done, something to be checked again that will reveal new information
centrifuging on the vial = spinning in order to separate the debris from the fluids, the lies from the truth in order to reveal the light, something that will rock the trial!
Light Man spinning all the while = Michael is spinning while all that is done :lol:
Imagine that at one point they make other tests and "find out" that the DNA doesn't match Michael's! afraid/ It sure would ROCK the trial! party/
Post by: SimPattyK on October 17, 2011, 03:54:22 PM
[...]I wrote more about bizarre celebs deaths and the strange numerology of their death-dates on this topic:
TheMoonisdancingQuoteMarilyn Monroe, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett, Keith Moon, Billie Holliday, Heath Ledger, Brittany Murphy, Amy Winehouse and a lot of other influential people are dead from drug abuse. Were some of these deaths accidental, or were some of them murders?"Good point. Maybe that Michael wants to expose some ugly truths in regards to Hollywood.[...]
MJ & ELVIS & other celebs - the 25/6th Numerology of "death" dates - http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20301.msg359307.html#msg359307
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5356/21536921932940475016810.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/21536921932940475016810.jpg/)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DikoLMfnEgE[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DikoLMfnEgE[/youtube]
Post by: MJonmind on October 17, 2011, 04:07:58 PM
I wish there was proof that a miracle actually took place, and that somehow God set aside the rules of nature, and restored every drugged cell in his bruised body, he sat up on the stretcher and said, "It worked!!" But of course that would mean that the guy behind the gate looking like MJ, was an intentional look-alike... Or if MJ actually was from birth somehow half angel and half human but no one could tell. This would explain his poems, lyrics, quotes about being someone special and living forever, from years ago even when young. There is something about this hoax that SO defies logic at every turn and every theory comes to some dead ends. I'm not saying I'm believing this but I'm throwing out my thoughts of frustration. I lie awake at night--I'm sure you all relate to that!! :lol:
And what was that "transfer" that took place on 7/7? Transfer from dead to alive, from human to angel, from earth to heaven?
Yes, TS, it would be very appreciated if you cast some light at this point, even if it's just your presence-- since it gives a boost to the intuitive/creative/inquiring mind juices flowing here.
Sarahli, on a lighter note.
Quote
I read that other tests were to be done.... a new ingredient is added in the recipe.... of course it made me think of Front's post:
Quote
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
Imagine that at one point they make other tests and "find out" that the DNA doesn't match Michael's! It sure would ROCK the trial!
This reminds me of the movie Toy Story 1, where Andy is having his birthday party and all the toy soldiers are reporting to the toys upstairs what gifts kids are bringing into the house. Suddenly there's this surprise present that his mom brings out of the closet that nobody expected. All the gifts were boring stuff till then, just like the trial so far so to speak. Well panic ensues, connection is lost briefly for the toys upstairs, Andy brings the "present" upstairs and puts it on the bed. And guess what it is not "Light Man", but Buzz Light Year, "to the rescue!" And the fun and games (war) begin!
So who knows what this now could mean!! errrr :mrgreen: afraid/
Post by: curls on October 17, 2011, 04:46:28 PM
You know the easiest solutions to all our Back 7-day theory interpretation issues, our trial witnesses being so authentic sounding, not figuring out if this is a sting or hoax, family saying he was murdered, and 95% fan world adamant he's dead---is that MJ was indeed murdered. It would answer ALL the questions. BUT we know he’s alive somehow, but how. Back says, “in angelic form”.
I wish there was proof that a miracle actually took place, and that somehow God set aside the rules of nature, and restored every drugged cell in his bruised body, he sat up on the stretcher and said, "It worked!!" But of course that would mean that the guy behind the gate looking like MJ, was an intentional look-alike... Or if MJ actually was from birth somehow half angel and half human but no one could tell. This would explain his poems, lyrics, quotes about being someone special and living forever, from years ago even when young. There is something about this hoax that SO defies logic at every turn and every theory comes to some dead ends. I'm not saying I'm believing this but I'm throwing out my thoughts of frustration. I lie awake at night--I'm sure you all relate to that!! :lol:
Oh MJonmond, I sense and relate to your frustrations! But you know of course that the bit I put in bold isn't true! To learn he was murdered would actually only raise more questions! Just for starters there's all the numerology around important times and dates, (I've just spent the evening re-reading some of TS's updates).
I'm sorry, my friend, you and me are going to be lying awake at night for some time yet I think! bearhug
Post by: MissG on October 17, 2011, 07:53:02 PM
Warning, long post...may be not much in topic...
It´s very interesting reading all of your posts. I can´t contribute much to what has been said and, I also can´t contribute with scientific theories but emotional ones.However, i just want to point out something which is bugging me since the dead pic came out and somehow it links to the sting theory (but i believe it´s a mix of every other theory as well, multilayered).
I wonder what really happened at Ucla the 25th of June, I wonder what kind of researches are done in Ucla as well. Michael´s death pic put in my mind the word, dissection, but also vivisection.
We know the love Michael had for animals and apparently Ucla is still having researches/ vivisections -on living animals-, experiments that costs a lot of money, money that can be put in health and patients instead.
For those experiments to take place, it is said that the animal must be sedated/ anesthesized what leads me to think about propofol once again.
Back to the dead pic shown in the trial, and the reactions of it, i quote from a book;
'The study of anatomy by dissection requires in its practitioners the effective suspension or suppression of many normal physical and emotional responses to the wilful mutilation of the body of another human being'– Richardson
In other words, in normal society, outside the medical school we would probably be locked up for dissection, and its not very nice anyway, is it? The name given to the ability to suppress physical and emotional responses is 'clinical detachment'. Clinical detachment is the way in which we deal with the repugnant, the distasteful, and what, if we did it to a living human being, would be criminal.It is acquired slowly, bit by bit (piece by piece), and to different extents.
If we did it to a living human beingis the key phrase. Perhaps we should examine our attitude to our own, and other peoples' bodies.
We have seen Michael´s dead pic and wondered "how come" the body looks different or no apparent protocol has been taken in to consideration before presenting it.
At the end, Michael´s body had sedatives. Michael has been "dissected" right in front of our eyes metaphorically talking.
In the past, the dissections performed on hanged felons were public: indeed part of the punishment was the delivery from hangman to surgeons at the gallows following public execution, and later public exhibition of the open body itself. This one could say that has been Michael´s last 20 years.
([size=0pt]Dissection is often performed as a part of determining a cause of death in[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]autopsy[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt](on humans) and[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]necropsy[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt](on animals) and is an intrinsic part of[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]forensic[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]medicine, such as would be practiced by a[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]coroner[/size][size=0pt].)[/size]
There is a lot of information on the net about doctor´s plot and the doctor´s trials (not sure if you heard about it)
The sting, if any, as I see it so far, it could be towards the medical industry and also the drug industry (pharma). Murray and other docs have proven to be able to buy whatever asked not really caring for the final use and not caring about control either.
The use of propofol it´s very important for this case, imo. Propofol is used for multiple ends (including execution) and for some reason beyond "Michael used it to be able to sleep" that drug has been mentioned so much for over 2 years now.
Michael feared for his life, but where to look for guilty ones? It is very confusing to the point that what I see each time I look at the dead picture is a shot gun wound in the chest but all the talk goes around propofol & negligence to call 911, how it is administered, how it works, how to get it and the enviroment to use it.
[size=0pt][/size]
Post by: paula-c on October 17, 2011, 09:23:02 PM
perhaps this way of " die is a call to attention
How The Globalists Create Heart Attacks
The recent deaths of over 100 microbiologists over the past several years, along with the deaths of 3 NWO bankers in less than a week at the end of July 2005 have caused many people to ask -- how does the NWO kill people and get away with it? In every sense of the phrase -- these people are above the law -- and the list of crimes hidden behind the veil of the ´National Security Act of 1947´ and their compartmentalized security clearances is as staggering as it is saddening. The NWO will assassinate anyone who comes too close to the real truth -- and those who have been ´suicided´ include investigative reporter Gary Webb, the author of the book ´Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President,´ James H. Hatfield, INSLAW/PROMIS investigative reporter Danny Casolaro, and Margie Schoedinger, the woman who alleged in a civil lawsuit that she was raped by George W. Bush.
The easiest manner in which to kill someone and leave no trace of the obvious crime having been committed, would be to cause a heart attack by using chemical substances that break down as naturally occurring compounds that would be normally found in anyone´s body. The process is relatively simple to anyone with knowledge of medicine and procedures involving those medicines. For the answer to this, I consulted with a local health care source, who was quite happy to explain to me how the Illuminati could create a heart attack.
Still, people continue to ask -- HOW do they do this?
For the answer to this question, we begin by looking at two substances that would break down into ordinary bodily chemicals. Of course, these are prescription drugs, and the only barrier preventing such a crime is gaining access to a doctor´s prescription pad. Once that relatively minor detail has been worked out, the commission of the crime is contingent upon getting the drugs into the victim´s body. The following two chemical compounds can be used to create a heart attack in anyone, while leaving no trace of a crime:
Potassium Chloride:
Potassium Chloride is known to be among the ingredients in many prescription drugs, such as: Klor-Con, Klor-Con 8, Klor-Con 10, and Klor-Con/25, among others. Potassium Chloride breaks down into both its´ individual components, potassium and chlorine. Both are found in the human body and the presence of either or both of these will not raise suspicion by either the attending physician or the coroner, who will carry out the autopsy.
This compound breaks down into both potassium and chlorine, in which the chlorine (Cl) binds with the human body´s naturally occurring sodium (Na) to create NaCl -- sodium chloride -- common table salt. The resultant heart attack is found to have no known cause -- as all that is found in the body is a slightly elevated level of NaCl. Too much potassium in the body causes tachycardia (fast heart-rate), which then leads to something known as ventricular fibrillation, which is one of many types of cardiac arrest.
Calcium Gluconate:
Calcium Gluconate is available in a 10% hypertonic I.V. (intravenous) solution, which simply means that the concentration is higher than what normally appears in the human body. The process by which this works is known as osmosis -- the hypertonic solution removes the water and glucose from the body´s cells -- replacing it with Calcium Gluconate. The calcium and the glucose are deposited in the body to be used as energy/fuel. The glucose is used for fuel, while the calcium remains in the body.
The Calcium Gluconate removes chlorine and replaces it with calcium, thus creating an electrolytic imbalance. The three compounds that become imbalanced are sodium (Na), potassium (K), and chlorine (Cl). This interferes with the normal LUB-DUB heartbeat impulse, which can then be regulated either too fast or too slow, creating a heart attack.
Air Embolism:
This is a third completely undetectable manner by which to murder someone by forced heart attack. A direct injection of 60 ml of air in a syringe into any vein causes the chambers of the heart to fill with air, which causes a heart attack. This type of heart attack is known as a P.E.A., or Pulseless Electrical Activity, and is another form of cardiac arrest. Here, the problem is from leaving a needle mark on the skin. However, with a little creativity, a vein in an usual body location will do the trick.
If a small enough gauge needle is used, the associated needle mark would be barely noticeable. If the coroner is not as careful as he or she should be --- the tiny needle mark would avoid detection. A tuberculin needle, or an insulin needle would more than adequately do the job, as it is intended to do.
Ventricular Fibrillation:
As stated above, this is a form of cardiac arrest. In this situation, there is no effective cardiac output. The ventricles of the heart are only twitching and very erratically at that. There is no ventricular pumping, thus, no circulation. According to Dr. Dubin´s book, Rapid Interpretation of EKGs, the following is stated:
"VF requires immediate defibrillation. Cardiac Arrest is an emergency that demands immediate intervention. Cardio-Pulmonary-Resuscitation (CPR), is carried out in order to circulate oxygenated blood by external mechanical means."
Thus, if CPR is withheld from the victim, death is assured.
Conclusion:
These three methods of creating an undetectable heart attack are of course known to the NWO assassin squads. To pull off the assassination, the proper chemicals are needed. Being as they are all prescription drugs, a complicit physician is also needed. Think Dr. Bill Harford of Stanley Kubrick´s film Eyes Wide Shut. This is never a problem to these mass murderers, such people are without souls and are always pathological in their behavior.
So, when the news talks about yet another microbiologist who was found dead under peculiar circumstances, or a European banker who died under similarly peculiar circumstances -- please realize that there is tremendous potential that the individual died because of the advances of an assassin -- and not simply because of the stated reason that was given on the nightly news.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message141328/pg1
Post by: BeTheChange on October 17, 2011, 10:24:30 PM
I still have to 'simmer' on the first part of your post where you talk about 'dissection' and perhaps re-examing our views about the human body....I haven't gone down that 'hoax' path yet lol...but the first thing that popped into my head when I read that was "I just want you to recognize me in the temple...you can't hurt me, I found peace within myself". Of course, those lyrics are open to interpretation...but one way to interpret it is that Mike was referring to his body as a 'temple'. Not sure why that came to mind...but the whole 'dissection' part of your post is intriguing through 'hoax eyes'.
Quote
The sting, if any, as I see it so far, it could be towards the medical industry and also the drug industry (pharma). Murray and other docs have proven to be able to buy whatever asked not really caring for the final use and not caring about control either.
How much of a 'personal cause' a possible 'sting' on docs is to MJ...we can only speculate....but it wouldn't even matter really. Every 'personal cause' Mike had was what he always fought for the most publically...not for publicity, but to raise awareness. He was always able to take his internal preoccupations (which truly were the planet, children, the poor, war, peace, love)...and extend them from a personal level to the world. He truly had, from a very young age, his finger on the 'pulse' of the world. A re-examination of doctors and the pharma industry would totally be up Mike's alley....and it would definitely fit the 'think bigger' advice we were given because it affects every single one of us.
There is a TON of research out there showing an increasing amount of prescription med addiction. There are only so many 'people' along that 'money trail'...and if it wasn't profitable, there'd be no 'addiction'. There's the government (FDA) that approve drugs, along with other government agencies that 'enforce' drug laws, etc (but not sure how involved the DEA, for example, has been in 'prescription meds')...there's the pharmaceutical industry that makes the drugs, there's pharmacies that dispense the drugs, and there's doctors that prescribe them. In recent years, a career in pharmaceutical sales has become very lucrative....and as a byproduct, so have many doctors who receive a lot of 'perks' for 'selling' their patients on a certain drug over another. Often times, people don't even know what they've been prescribed or what they're taking...because, for the most part, people are taking their doctor's 'word for it'.
There's a heck of a lot of potential for corruption in that 'money trail'...and although there are other ways to obtain prescription drugs other than through a doctor...there's a lot of people getting them through scripts. Even if bought on the street, chances are, at some point, a prescription was written. There's not too many professions that require one to take an oath "to do no harm" and the only 'link' on that 'drug chain' that has taken that oath is doctors. I said in a past post that if we (collective) can no longer trust doctors, then we're all screwed.
IF, for whatever reason, Mike wanted to wake people up to this fact...that we are trusting our health and our loved ones' health to people that have, in essence, sold their souls to the devil to line their pockets...then 'dying' at the hands of a 'corrupt' doctor would, most definitely, fit this 'script'.
Even if none of this comes close to anything that Mike has planned...it's something that we should all educate ourselves on more or, at least, remain aware of when dealing with any level of the medical field....which, in most cases, will be doctors.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @TS...I'm starting to think of you as 'The Simmer' stage/side :lol: ...you taught us how to "let it simmer" ;)
Post by: Andrea on October 17, 2011, 11:12:38 PM
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 17, 2011, 11:34:14 PM
Quote
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trialhttp://twitter.com/#!/abc7MurrayTrial/status/125967550185095168
by mjsunflowerjj
Trial will not be in session again tomorrow because of a new issue having to do with a new test done on Michael Jackson stomach content.
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 18, 2011, 12:06:55 AM
Quote
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
by mjsunflowerjj
Trial will not be in session again tomorrow because of a new issue having to do with a new test done on Michael Jackson stomach content.
/overreacting/
New? NEW?? What?!
Ok, what noooooow.. Will they suddenly find 20 pills in there?? 5oo ml of Propofol?
Hope they won't be diggin' for "body's" stomach in 2011 fresse/
I can't wait for trial! bounce/ please be Wednesday..
UPD: I see, "8 Lorazepam pills".
Post by: RK on October 18, 2011, 12:29:00 AM
I find it another coincidence that this chapter of revelations also talks about the army of the bottomless pit were given power as the scorpions of the earth have power [verse3]
http://www.ukapologetics.net/pharmakeia.html (http://www.ukapologetics.net/pharmakeia.html)
Quote
10:08 PM - The Bible and PharmakeiaThis originates surely from the bottomless pit. There is a lot of info out there supporting the mass drugging of the world population not the least being flouridated drinking water. This is not such a big leap in my mind to connect TPB with the pharma industry to bring about their agenda of depopulation and a new world order.
Does the Bible forbid the taking of prescription drugs? That seems to be a matter of personal interpretation and a personal decision. For someone like me that has suffered more harm than good from them I avoid them totally if possible. In fact after being poisoned decades ago by prescription pain pills taken as directed my health seriously declined and I cannot even take aspirin now. In doing considerable research on this subject our modern drug industry and the original Greek word pharmakeia in the Bible are too much alike for my comfort. I concede there are times when some drugs like antibiotics and pain relievers can be beneficial taken for short periods. There must be some exceptions but ALL drugs are poison to one degree or another. Nearly all drugs merely cover up symptoms producing significant, and often deadly, side effects necessitating the use of more drugs to cover up those side effects, etc. etc.
The modern drug industry originated with the IG Farben company in Nazi Germany. They led in funding Hitler's rise to power. Their drugs and extermination gas made the holocaust and prisoner medical experiments possible. The major pharmaceutical companies of today came from the breakup of IG Farben after the war. The drug industry is all about profit, not helping humanity. The corrupt FDA insures that drug companies are thoroughly protected in their endeavors while at the same time curtailing natural therapies as much as possible. When Codex soon becomes the law of the land ALL natural medicine will be illegal. Prescription drugs kill an estimated 100,000 to 200,000 Americans yearly and are one of the leading causes of death. The medical industry together kills 3/4 million people annually. Your chances of dying from modern medicine are 16,000% higher than dying from terrorism. http://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html
Nazi drug experiments never ceased. They simply moved to America and expanded worldwide. The H1N1 vaccine is part of that agenda. People must be kept ill with chronic disease for continued profitabilty. And some population reduction fits in nicely too as long as it doesn't get too obvious for the sheeple to notice. Additional information is provided below. The article below is good except for not mentioning that many "witch doctors" throughout the world DO use the practice of the occult also in their "medicine" which is very dangerous spiritually.
There is a lot of info supplied in the links for anyone who would like to research this more indepthly.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 18, 2011, 12:36:34 AM
Back's posts are new to me; but I noticed some interesting things... he capitalizes words in strange places so there's some meaning there.Nice observations !!!
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
I especially love the one about the letter H !! ;)
I posted some montages about the hoax and letter H on the last 2 pages of this topic ----)) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html)
Actually this thread is not right one to analyze Back.We have special Back thread where all these thing has been analyzed. Yes, Back was writing letters in capital that point on different word that contains meaning itself.
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 18, 2011, 04:39:09 AM
Quoteabc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
by mjsunflowerjj
Trial will not be in session again tomorrow because of a new issue having to do with a new test done on Michael Jackson stomach content.
/overreacting/
New? NEW?? What?!
Ok, what noooooow.. Will they suddenly find 20 pills in there?? 5oo ml of Propofol?
Hope they won't be diggin' for "body's" stomach in 2011 fresse/
I can't wait for trial! bounce/ please be Wednesday..
UPD: I see, "8 Lorazepam pills".
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
and my question is: why this report is coming up now???? what they have been doing for the last 2 years????
and some ppl still cannot see how nonsense it is lolol/
Post by: SimPattyK on October 18, 2011, 10:17:16 AM
Post by: curls on October 18, 2011, 11:32:16 AM
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
So, am I understanding this corrrectly? Defense are losing all their defense! First, MJ couldn't have drunk additional propofol, now he didn't swallow extra Lorazepam - what DID kill him then???? What line are they going to take now? If I didn't know better I'd be starting to think MJ shouldn't be dead! ;)
I never understood properly if the propofol in his blood was actually a lot or not - can anyone help me out here?
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 18, 2011, 11:48:33 AM
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
So, am I understanding this corrrectly? Defense are losing all their defense! First, MJ couldn't have drunk additional propofol, now he didn't swallow extra Lorazepam - what DID kill him then???? What line are they going to take now? If I didn't know better I'd be starting to think MJ shouldn't be dead! ;)
I never understood properly if the propofol in his blood was actually a lot or not - can anyone help me out here?
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
Quote
New toxicology report could hurt defense
A new toxicology report could deal a blow to the defense's theory that Michael Jackson took sleeping pills and self-injected propofol creating the lethal cocktail that caused his death.
During a hearing Monday, prosecutor David Walgren said this latest round of lab testing is meant to counter the defense's claim that Jackson ingested eight lorazepam tablets.
Walgren requested that the Los Angeles County coroner test Jackson's stomach contents last week after the defense dropped its claim that Jackson swallowed the propofol. Defense lawyers now suggest Jackson more likely injected the propofol himself after swallowing the lorazepam.
Defense attorney Ed Chernoff then raised an issue with the court expressing his concern over the new toxicology report.
"We don't know what it means," said Chernoff.
Chernoff also commented on the timing of the report, claiming the prosecution waited too long to test Jackson's stomach contents.
Walgren claimed that regardless of the timing the test results are relevant to the issues at trial.
There was "a much smaller amount of lorazepam in the stomach that is totally inconsistent with oral consumption of lorazepam tablets," said Walgren.
Testimony will resume Wednesday morning. Judge Michael Pastor granted another delay of the trial for two reasons: To give the defense time to review the new toxicology report and the judge also wants to give the state's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, more time to deal with the death of his father.
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/18/new-toxicology-report-could-hurt-defense/#more-13798
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 18, 2011, 12:28:29 PM
Back's posts are new to me; but I noticed some interesting things... he capitalizes words in strange places so there's some meaning there.Nice observations !!!
#1 tIME. The strange capital letters. IME... I am ME? = Michael?
#2 tHerOY of sEVEN... H OY EVEN. I thought this might be Oh Why Even... but then I saw the H :?
#3 mOMENt... OMEN
For those of you familiar with Front & Back can you tell the rest of us what these mean?
I especially love the one about the letter H !! ;)
I posted some montages about the hoax and letter H on the last 2 pages of this topic ----)) http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.50.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20291.50.html)
Actually this thread is not right one to analyze Back.We have special Back thread where all these thing has been analyzed. Yes, Back was writing letters in capital that point on different word that contains meaning itself.
#1 I'm not the first to bring the Back thread into this thread.
#2 Although it may not be the best place for Sim to bring promote her video, if you felt the need to respond without answering the question wouldn't a link to the question asked have been more helpful? I for one am not familiar with Back, Front, Up, Down, Sideways or what ever name TS has used for that matter, :lol: nor do I have hours to read through pages & pages on this forum with all the comments & speculations of others searching for the answers. crash/ Like many people my time here is limited & it's a wonder I can keep up with current TS topics, posts & comments. typing/ How do you think newbies will react when the BAM hits and they flood this forum looking for answers? Even the Forum index is a bit overwhelming with its topics & subtopics. Do you really expect them to read 2+ yrs of info? confused/ Will we give them the short concise answers pointing them in the right direction? Or blow them off and tell them to go read up on it themselves?... Just sayin'.
Post by: Sarahli on October 18, 2011, 01:04:38 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP9qDuhNhHc&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=3[/youtube]
Murray said that Michael arrived at home at 1 am. But there are witnesses who report that he did not leave Staples until 1:30 am. Which would have made Michael arrive at home at 2 am at the soonest. It seems like Murray is lying about the timeline.
I think that this discrepancy is an important DEtAiL...Front said "Time is of the essence" so this is one of the things that we should maybe look deeper into. Therefore this "mistake" from Murray makes his whole timeline wrong.
Now why would Murray need to lie about that? Could it be because of the security tapes and the need to hide them? Those tapes are an important element because they would prove when Michael came home and they would also tell us who came in and out on that day.
- Something else noteworthy lies in Dr. Shafer's testimony. At some point they mention a Dr White who is witness for the defense. Here is an article where this Dr White is mentioned by one of his colleague and friend: http://www.doctoroz.com/blog/mike-roizen-md/michael-jackson
Quote
My friend Dr. Paul White, an anesthesiologist who is as solid on the science of propofol as anyone, is an expert witness for the defense. I haven’t spoken to Dr. White about the testimony he plans to give – or about the trial at all. But soon he may be asked for his professional opinion in the courtroom, and it seems that he’s prepared to say that Murray did not cause Jackson’s death. Even knowing that, I’ll be amazed if Dr. White thinks that Murray provided proper care when administering propofol. How the heck did Jackson die then, Paul? And what about the fact that Jackson was combining propofol with other prescription drugs? Darn it, Paul – now I’ve got to spend some time paying attention to this case.His astonishment as to how Dr White is going to defend Murray's case is quite interesting.
- Another doctor's viewpoint, Dr Barry Friedberg. Here's an interview on HLN:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2OGpiBPPmw&feature=BFa&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ[/youtube]
Just quoting what he says at the end because it ties in with the timing/wrong timeline given by Murray: "when Murray came back in the room Michael was already dead and the rest was just for show". He also talks about the standard of care that hasn't been respected at allby Murray.
@Curls in trying to answer your question about the Propofol found:
heart blood 3.2 ug ml
femoral blood 2.6 ug ml (micrograms per milliliter)
hospital blood 4.1 ug ml
vitreous less than 0.4 ug ml
liver 6.2 ug ml
gastric contents 0.13 mg
urine 0.15 ug ml
urine (scene) less than 0.1 ug ml
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/toxicologyreport.pdf
It doesn't seem to be tremendous amounts but I'm no expert lolol/ ... I think we may have to wait for Dr Shafer to finish his testimony and see what he has to say about that as he is the toxicology and propofol expert. /judge/
To read more about the toxicology report: http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/17/will-the-defense-have-to-dump-another-theory/
Post by: Grace on October 18, 2011, 01:12:21 PM
my post went away.
Post by: MissG on October 18, 2011, 01:16:20 PM
Back to "the drugs", LaToya mentioned that her brother had drugs in his system to kill an elephant, but after seeing what was said in the trial it does not look that much, does it?
Also, at the beginning of the trial, there was some tape recording about Murray mentioning he was going to publish Michael´s medical records and that he was waiting for the answer from Michael (can´t locate the video now :x brb later)
In resume, there were not as many drugs in his system as was claimed at first and for some reason Michael was not ok with publishing his medical records but, after his death, here we are, disecting once more...Michael wasn´t a drug addict and that should be written in all media formats by now, but, still no attention is given to that fact.
Post by: MissG on October 18, 2011, 01:18:02 PM
my post went away.
Post! come back, NOW (http://hardcorepontiacs.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley_whip.gif)
Post by: Sarahli on October 18, 2011, 01:25:59 PM
Quote
Sting operation against doctors?
It is easier to hire a doctor without scruples that a hired killer?, there are many famous people who have died from prescription drugs, and some doctor have gone to jail?, apparently this is the way to get rid of someone uncomfortable," and as there is no violence do not go to jail leaving the court to the House
I agree with you, good point imo and this quote from your last post as well:
Quote
The easiest manner in which to kill someone and leave no trace of the obvious crime having been committed, would be to cause a heart attack by using chemical substances that break down as naturally occurring compounds that would be normally found in anyone´s body. The process is relatively simple to anyone with knowledge of medicine and procedures involving those medicines. For the answer to this, I consulted with a local health care source, who was quite happy to explain to me how the Illuminati could create a heart attack.
This whole trial based around Propofol and how it is used is quite boggling. There MUST be something here that Michael wants to highlight.
Post by: curls on October 18, 2011, 01:32:20 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 18, 2011, 01:36:20 PM
I hope!
Post by: Sarahli on October 18, 2011, 01:41:11 PM
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
Post by: curls on October 18, 2011, 01:48:37 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 18, 2011, 02:23:59 PM
ALSO, now that it was brought down that Michael didn't drink the propofol and now they will show that he didn't take the pills either, the defense is going to say he self injected it!!!! I can't WAIT to see how that is shot down!!!
Post by: SimPattyK on October 18, 2011, 02:55:00 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 18, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
You're welcome Curls. beerchug
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
And....there was a REAL CLOWN outside the courthouse at the trial!!!! Maybe someone we know???
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 18, 2011, 03:36:22 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on October 18, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5047/mjhoaxbaloney.jpg)
Post by: skyways on October 18, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Interesting if they wl dig deep enough to diggin' Michael Jackson body out of the grave 4 that new fluids test?
There wl be the DRAMA - AINT NO BODY IN THE CASCET??@@@
-- Happy Hallowin' everybody- MJ is ALIVE!!
Who knows what up in his mastermind?
As for exibit B- Its can be reffer to DEFENCE turn itself- as a Second or B part of the trial.
Since nothing sensational happened on part A in the court - I held Big Hope from now on.
We still Dont get the KEY answer - WHO ARE THOSE B-IG PLAYERS THAT WANT MIKE DEAD?
But was strongly promising by Jermane, that THEY A-L-L WL COME OUT.
I Soo look forwad for it as its very well hold the KEYS on WHY is hoax have 2 happends This way.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on October 18, 2011, 03:48:33 PM
This proves that this is a TV show/ movie. It's all ridiculous. I hope something good happens because of all this such as the real criminals getting caught etc. I hope that's the plan.
Post by: PureLove on October 18, 2011, 04:59:20 PM
I don't see how they can do additional tests on stomache contents and do more toxicology tests NOW !!!! Two years later. How ? Did they save samples of stomache contents for more than two years. 28 months ???????
This proves that this is a TV show/ movie. It's all ridiculous. I hope something good happens because of all this such as the real criminals getting caught etc. I hope that's the plan.
It sounds crazy that they will be doing more tests on the stomach content after two years. I don't think it is possible tho. It looks like the trial is going to end with the BAM. afraid/ mj_dance/
Post by: Raikiramari on October 18, 2011, 05:03:50 PM
I don't see how they can do additional tests on stomache contents and do more toxicology tests NOW !!!! Two years later. How ? Did they save samples of stomache contents for more than two years. 28 months ???????
This proves that this is a TV show/ movie. It's all ridiculous. I hope something good happens because of all this such as the real criminals getting caught etc. I hope that's the plan.
This is a massive waste of time, it wouldn't matter if they had stomach content samples from over two years ago or not, chances are the cells would've died out by now so they can't carry out another toxicology report, it would be just as tainted as the last.
Honestly...
Post by: MissG on October 18, 2011, 05:24:26 PM
On my way to research on frozen and preserved gastric fluids (http://www.thesidewalker.com/forums/images/smilies/vomit1.gif)
*Austrian accent* I´ll be back
(http://www.zone54.com/picture-gallery/image?format=raw&type=img&id=2840)
Post by: Raikiramari on October 18, 2011, 05:26:59 PM
Lorazepam is a benzodiazepine and can be detected in oral fluids/ blood from 6 to 48 hours and in urine from 7 days to 6 weeks. Michael was 2 months in the morge and tests were performed... WTF?? ...why now?
On my way to research on frozen and preserved gastric fluids (http://www.thesidewalker.com/forums/images/smilies/vomit1.gif)
*Austrian accent* I´ll be back
(http://www.zone54.com/picture-gallery/image?format=raw&type=img&id=2840)
Hahahahaha :lol:
No, don't do it! It's disgusting! XD
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 18, 2011, 06:00:42 PM
;)
Post by: MissG on October 18, 2011, 06:06:50 PM
Anyway, interesting steps when comes to examine a body during autopsy and other details that just give more questions:
Quote
Immediately after death the body is wrapped and sent to the morgue, where it is kept refrigerated until the autopsy. Most autopsies are done somewhere between 8 and 4 or so, including weekends and holidays.Do we know the time?
Quote
Refrigerate body to preserve it. In long-running murder trials this may have to kept up for ages. Sometimes defense lawyer will want to order an independent autopsy
But..Michael has been buried already.
Quote
The major organs of the body such as the heart, liver, lungs, and stomach are removed for examination, and small samples are taken for lab inspection. Indicators of disease are noted, and usually the stomach is opened so that its contents can be examined. Samples of body fluids are also taken so that they can be tested for drugs, toxins, and any other unusual substances. After inspection, the organs are usually placed back into the body cavity before it is sewn up.
Quote
What Stomach Contents Can IndicateThe process through which food is absorbed into the body can take anything from twenty two hours to two days to complete and within that time food is broken down and reduced to a liquid pulp from which essential proteins are extracted.
Given that this process can take such a long time the contents of the stomach - and in particular their condition at the time of autopsy - can help to estimate the time of death.
Quote
Stomach contents can also reveal if the deceased was perhaps experimenting with any form of drug or exotic food, which might bring about a state of internal poisoning.
As a generally accepted rule stomach contents are analysed for trace elements of poisons or other toxins that might not normally be found in the deceased's system. This is useful if there is a suspicion of drug abuse or poisoning.
Quote
Stomach contents are useful in the identification of a body that might be difficult to identify by conventional methods. For example if a body is discovered that is dressed in a similar manner to a reported missing person, examining the stomach contents can yield surprising results. Let us say that the missing person has an allergy to a particular food item, if this item is to be found among the stomach contents of the deceased then it might be likely that the two are not the same.
This does sound perhaps a very simple way of proving the identity - or likewise disputing the identity - of the deceased but it can be a very useful tool.
WTF?? is the defense going to other path??...I hope "we" are not exhibit B...
Quote
in investigations where cause of death is in doubt the contents of the human stomach may offer up clues and insights that would normally go unnoticed.
Quote
While the process of an autopsy may seem gruesome to some, autopsies can provide valuable medical clues. Especially in terminally ill patients, an autopsy can provide information for doctors about the exact cause of death which may help them treat other patients with similar conditions in the future.
In deed, we are learning a lot and doctors are giving their diagnosis in public TV.
Quote
In murder investigations, an autopsy is a crucial piece of the puzzle, showing how exactly the victim died and what was used to kill him or her. People interested in the mechanics of death often pursue careers are forensic pathologists or forensic anthropologists so that they can learn more about this inevitable life process.Educational tv...better than average tv but using still the morbid attention of the public...human nature.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 18, 2011, 06:34:14 PM
After an autopsy, pathologists usually put the major organs into plastic bags and store them in body cavities unless they have written permission to keep them. Medical examiners must keep any organs or tissues needed for evidence in a legal case. Medical devices, such as pacemakers, are discarded. They routinely keep small pieces of organs (about the size of a crouton) for subsequent microscopic and chemical analysis. National standards require that "wet tissue" from autopsies be held for six months after issuing a final autopsy report, tissue in paraffin blocks (from which microscope slides are made) must be kept for five years, and the slides themselves along with the autopsy reports must be retained for twenty years.
http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Autopsy.html (http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Autopsy.html)
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MissG on October 18, 2011, 06:38:54 PM
If yes, we are phucked then :| 20 years are many years...
Post by: fordtocarr on October 18, 2011, 06:53:17 PM
WHAT?? JVM didn't question or dispute his statement as though it is common knowledge..or...not suppose to be known.
What in the world is he talking about is going on with the gov. of cali and drugs/celebs???
Post by: wishingstar on October 18, 2011, 06:59:13 PM
Great job!!!!
/bravo/
Blessings
PS> I shall never eat another crouton again......eek!
Post by: Elsa on October 18, 2011, 08:29:32 PM
oh, apparently the new texicology report is ready that kills one line for defense that MJ swallowed eight lorazepam pills....
So, am I understanding this corrrectly? Defense are losing all their defense! First, MJ couldn't have drunk additional propofol, now he didn't swallow extra Lorazepam - what DID kill him then???? What line are they going to take now? If I didn't know better I'd be starting to think MJ shouldn't be dead! ;)
I never understood properly if the propofol in his blood was actually a lot or not - can anyone help me out here?
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
The search warrant has always said that Dr Murray 'noticed JACKSON was not breathing' at 'approximately 1100 hours'
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf)
When you open this link in a PDF you can go to p.11 of 23, but in the actual document it's numbered p.20 of 32. Lines 15-17.
If you follow the time line on p.19 and calculate the minutes - that is Dr Murray's story according to the search warrant.
Post by: paula-c on October 18, 2011, 08:43:00 PM
Murray would have rented a locker for storage in Las Vegas and there kept drugs, syringes with blood and other tests.
The problem came when he could not pay the rent, then its content was confiscated by the authorities.
The Enquirer claims to have images of the discovery
I can not publish more, put the link someone publish, I make clik and get this message
"The content of this website is not available in your area" :evil:
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/jackson-doc-hid-secret-evidence-storage-locker
Post by: BeTheChange on October 18, 2011, 09:12:17 PM
Prosecutors have uncovered a secret “death kit” that could help convict MICHAEL JACKSON’s personal physician of the beloved pop star’s death!
In a bombshell world exclusive, The ENQUIRER has learned that DR. CONRAD MURRAY stashed drugs, bloody syringes and other evidence in a Las Vegas storage locker in a bid to cover up the King of Pop’s tragic death.
But when he failed to make three monthly rental payments on the locker, its contents — including the powerful anesthetic propofol — were sold, then the drugs were confiscated by authorities, according to insiders.
The ENQUIRER has obtained exclusive photos of the evidence left behind by Dr. Murray, and now sources say the abandoned material could put him behind bars!
“The cache of secret evidence in the storage locker could help prosecutors convict Dr. Murray in Michael Jackson’s death,” a close source told The ENQUIRER.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 18, 2011, 09:23:08 PM
10/28/11 (1+2+8= 11) is when verdict is said to be decided.
My best guess is we should just wait.
The investigations in this forum are profound!! Now all we can do is wait....
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 18, 2011, 09:36:55 PM
11/11/11 is when Thrive comes out.
10/28/11 (1+2+8= 11) is when verdict is said to be decided.
My best guess is we should just wait.
The investigations in this forum are profound!! Now all we can do is wait....
I agree, but the waiting part is the hardest thing to do..
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 18, 2011, 09:43:02 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 18, 2011, 09:45:56 PM
As for my 'day job' not working out...the only thing I'd want to 'investigate' is grapes on a vineyard somewhere (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h21/mykukla/smileys/oregonian_winesmiley.gif)
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: curls on October 19, 2011, 01:26:08 AM
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
The search warrant has always said that Dr Murray 'noticed JACKSON was not breathing' at 'approximately 1100 hours'
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf)
When you open this link in a PDF you can go to p.11 of 23, but in the actual document it's numbered p.20 of 32. Lines 15-17.
If you follow the time line on p.19 and calculate the minutes - that is Dr Murray's story according to the search warrant.
Thanks for that link Elsa, I hadn't seen that document before. Well, if he found him not breathing at 11.00 it's even worse - because in that 'lost hour' I was talking about he was making phone calls while MJ lay 'dead', not 'asleep'.
[And there's another 'lost hour' after rehearsal the night before. Some say he left at 12.30, others 1.30.]
We need Hercule Poirot on the case!
Post by: Melzy777 on October 19, 2011, 01:52:43 AM
Post by: bec on October 19, 2011, 03:03:21 AM
They said the propofol Murray admits to administering would've kept MJ asleep for 5 - 10 minutes and he gave that at 10.45 or thereabouts. Am I being seriously dense here - isn't there over an hour unaccounted for between then and just before 12.00 when Murray went to the bathroom? Was MJ supposed to be 'sleeping' then while Murray made all his phone calls?
I wonder if the jury are keeping up with all this because I'm not!
The search warrant has always said that Dr Murray 'noticed JACKSON was not breathing' at 'approximately 1100 hours'
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf)
When you open this link in a PDF you can go to p.11 of 23, but in the actual document it's numbered p.20 of 32. Lines 15-17.
If you follow the time line on p.19 and calculate the minutes - that is Dr Murray's story according to the search warrant.
Thanks for that link Elsa, I hadn't seen that document before. Well, if he found him not breathing at 11.00 it's even worse - because in that 'lost hour' I was talking about he was making phone calls while MJ lay 'dead', not 'asleep'.
[And there's another 'lost hour' after rehearsal the night before. Some say he left at 12.30, others 1.30.]
We need Hercule Poirot on the case!
That lost hour showed up again the next morning; a discrepancy from early reports, based on alleged statements made by Murray to investigators.
Does anyone remember this? Originally, shortly after 6/25/09, the story that came out was that Murray told police he found MJ not breathing a little before 11am. Then when it was pointed out that he waited an hour and a half to call for help, the story from his lawyers was that he was mistaken the first time, and really meant to say he found MJ not breathing an hour later, or just before noon.
"Lost hour" lol. Looks like someone failed to keep track of time.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 19, 2011, 04:10:35 AM
Anyways, for those that don't know what I am talking about, here is part of June Chandler's testimony she gave in 2005:
Q. by Tom Sneddon – A. by June Chandler
Q. Did you notice — I may not have asked this with regard to the third visit, but you indicated in at least the first visit that Jordan slept with you in your guest cottage, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. In the second visit, did Jordan sleep with you in your guest cottage?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And the third visit, did Jordan sleep with you in your guest cottage?
A. Yes, he did.
———-
Q. And when you got to Las Vegas, where did you stay, what hotel?
A. The Mirage Hotel.
Q. And when you got to The Mirage Hotel, do you remember what time of day or night it was?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember how long you stayed in Las Vegas on this occasion?
A. Two or three nights.
Q. Now, when you got to Las Vegas, did you have — obviously you had a room –
A. Correct.
Q. — in The Mirage. And who was in your room when you first got there? Who was staying in your room?
A. Jordan, myself, Lily and Michael.
Q. All in the same room?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, did those arrangements change at any point in time?
A. Yes.
Q. And when did they change?
A. The second night things changed.
Q. With regard to “things changed,” could you tell me what changed first?
A. Well, there were approximately three bedrooms in that suite at the Mirage Hotel. Lily and I were staying in one bedroom, Jordie had another bedroom, and Michael had another bedroom. The second night, they were going to see a performance, Cirque du Soleil performance.
Q. “They” meaning who?
A. Jordie and Michael –
Q. Okay.
A. — and Lily and I. It was around 11 p.m. at night, and I got a call from somebody at Cirque du Soleil saying, “Where is Michael?” And I said, “He should be there with my son.” They said, “He’s not here.” A little while later, another call, he still didn’t show up. They still did not show up. And I — there’s a knock on the door and it’s Michael and Jordan, and they came back into the suite. Michael –
Q. Now, let me stop you right there, okay?
A. Yes.
Q. About what time is it when your son Jordan and the defendant in this case, Mr. Jackson, showed up?
A. Well, I think the performance started at 11:00, and I would say Jordan and Michael showed up around 11:30.
Q. Now, could you describe for the jury Mr. Jackson’s demeanor at the time that they came back to the room?
A. He was sobbing. He was crying, shaking, trembling.
Q. Michael Jackson was?
A. He was.
Q. And what about your son’s demeanor?
A. He was quiet.
Q. Now, at that point in time, did Mr. Jackson tell you why he was upset or crying?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Tell the jury what he said.
A. He said, “You don’t trust me? We’re a family. Why are you doing this? Why are you not allowing Jordie to be with me?” And I said, “He is with you.” He said, “But my bedroom. Why not in my bedroom? We fall asleep, the kids have fun. Boys” –
MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive; narrative.
THE COURT: Narrative; sustained.
Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Tell us what – Mr. Jackson said that he wanted your son to sleep with him in his bed – what you said to Mr. Jackson.
A. What I said to Michael was, “This is not” — “This is not anything that I want. This is not right. Jordie should be able to do what he wants to do. He should be able to fall asleep where he wants to sleep.”
Q. Is this you talking or Mr. Jackson speaking?
A. I was saying this. And Michael was trembling and saying, “We’re a family. Jordie is having fun. Why can’t he sleep in my bed? There’s nothing wrong. There’s nothing going on. Don’t you trust me?”
Q. All right. How long do you think this conversation lasted between you and Mr. Jackson over where Jordan was going to sleep that night?
A. I would say 20 to 30, 40 minutes.
Q. So it was a back-and-forth conversation; is that right?
A. Yes.
Post by: Melzy777 on October 19, 2011, 05:26:45 AM
You're welcome Curls. beerchug
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
Apologies, as I am reading BACKwards in this thread to avoid saying things twice if I can. :lol:
The difference in tIME is 20 minutes. Which is o2 backwards, or OZ, if you want to be creative with o/0 and 2/Z
Also, IME probably means "In My Experience." - imo :lol:
Post by: Grace on October 19, 2011, 08:14:37 AM
The lost hour reminds me of the lost 30 minutes (or more maybe, since the Cirque show was supposed to start t 11.00 pm) at the Mirage with Jordie Chandler. This has been bugging me for years. What happened there? Why was Jordie so quiet and Mike so upset? Why would Mike suddenly want Jordie to sleep in his room? Why didn't they go to the show? I have had the most disturbing thoughts about this and to be clear: not about Michael molesting the boy! I would really want to know what made him so upset. Who caused it? Who did they meet in those minutes and what did they do to him (MJ) or the boy? The only ones that probably know are Jordie and Michael. If this is a sting against Tom Sneddon et al, and I really believe that's a huge possibility, then Jordy must be a key player. Let's not forget that, other than the Arvizo's, Jordie was forced into saying things that never happened. He was drugged and forced and he never wanted to testify against him. That is the biggest mistake the rats made back then and that is why they never made it to trial, because other then Jordie's implanted false memories by Torbiner and Chandler, they had nothing.
Did I get that correctly: they did come back without having been at the show?
I am not familiar with all details so I am stating my impression from the transcript.
All is fiction, I am just thinking out loud without claiming any substance.
Two possibilities could explain the transcript and the painted situation:
a) June Chandler was lying all way down. That cited convo sounds definitely scripted.
b) Somebody did something to Jordie and Michael got to know about it that night and wanted to protect Jordie by sleeping in his room. This could include sexual abuse of Jordie by another person which Michael wanted to prevent by staying with him.
I ran into this blog with a theory about June Chandler and Michael and the timeline of events.
http://floriceg.multiply.com/journal/item/63/Michael_Jackson_and_June_Chandler_?&show_interstitial=1&u=%2Fjournal%2Fitem (http://floriceg.multiply.com/journal/item/63/Michael_Jackson_and_June_Chandler_?&show_interstitial=1&u=%2Fjournal%2Fitem)
Rejection and / or a bad conscience may lead to enormous aggressions and could explain the foul play.
The fact that Jordie was drugged for telling lies and the fact that Jordie knew so well to explain sexual abuse would rather get me into thinking that he was a real abuse victim. Some abusers will drug their victims, those working for TPTB do both.
IMO the truth may be a mélange of both, a) and b).
The accusers had to know fine details about what happens during abuse to make the story believable. That would indicate they were involved themselves in such acts. Same applies to Jordie IMHO. You cannot tell somebody to construct a complicated story, even not under drugs. But you may replace figures in existing stories. I think that's way more realistic.
(Add.: What jumped at me from that blog mentioned above was the statement that something allegedly happened between Michael and Jordie at occasion of a stay in Monaco. JCC on MJHD sent us to "Princess Grace" in 2009. Princess Grace lived in Monaco. All of JCC's comments are to be found here:
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t355-jcc-cryptic-comments-and-what-i-think-they-mean-updated-please-read (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/t355-jcc-cryptic-comments-and-what-i-think-they-mean-updated-please-read)
and make a lot of sense in retrospective. If JCC was a "true" informer then, we may conclude that the Chandler case most likely was the straw that broke the camel's back for Michael as to do something about rightening this screaming injust situation.)
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 19, 2011, 08:47:10 AM
Post by: Shining light on October 19, 2011, 11:12:14 AM
Just by the way TS was so excited about the start of the trial I feel the end of the trial has to have a shocking end to it. Its just a guess,please no one hold me to anything. Regardless I will watch the court until its end because I really feel"This Is it"! what better platform to shock the world than on television where all the world can view it live or the media will report it instantly.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 19, 2011, 11:44:07 AM
latex gloves again? Why on the cover of a magazine displayed like this? WTF??
Post by: BeTheChange on October 19, 2011, 01:58:18 PM
It will be interesting to see the cross-examination of Shafer...the guy is super smart and extremely knowledgeable.
On another note...I think I heard on HLN that there's no court tomorrow...or that the defense won't be presenting their case until Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 19, 2011, 02:20:50 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 19, 2011, 02:24:41 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on October 19, 2011, 02:48:14 PM
Just for FUN post! :lol: :lol:You're welcome Curls. beerchug
Wanted to add a video where Chernoff gives 2 different lengths of time about Murray's CPR performance... :lol: another tIME discrepancy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teb2UEwHIwY&list=FLLFYv_he71bAmtxm-sMKgAQ&index=1[/youtube]
Guess WHO is juggling with the facts/DEtAiLS? ........ suspicious//
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Clown-Juggling-animated-animation-clown-smiley-emoticon-000405-large.gif)
Mr Prankster Clown aka Michael Jackson!!!
lolol/
And....there was a REAL CLOWN outside the courthouse at the trial!!!! Maybe someone we know???
I had found this on the internet some time ago and I wanted to share it with related to your previous posts here ^^ lol
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7105/59459437718283910278634.jpg)
Post by: wishingstar on October 19, 2011, 03:17:29 PM
Wow...this 'safe procedures' video that Dr. Shafer is narrating is very educational...and very damning for Murray. It's showing every single thing Murray didn't have on hand and every single thing he didn't do to 'save' MJ.
It will be interesting to see the cross-examination of Shafer...the guy is super smart and extremely knowledgeable.
On another note...I think I heard on HLN that there's no court tomorrow...or that the defense won't be presenting their case until Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I managed to watch a little bit of this today. Yes, that video was crazy detailed with all the safety procedures for putting a patient under sedation. It was quite the learning "episode". I just kept thinking to myself, "...how on Earth would anyone outside the true anesthesia community ever know if all this is the truth.....they could tell us anything." That thought led me to remember the old game show Liar's Club. It had a three celebrity panel, they were given a strange looking object, one told the truth of what the object actually was, the other two told lies about the object. The player then had to guess which celebrity was telling the truth and which two were lying. It was always funny, and they had some weird looking objects for sure. All those safety objects just reminded so much of this old show. Who knows. Perhaps we needed Ariel from the The Little Mermaid....she said a fork was a digglehopper to brush hair with, lol. Here are links to Liar's Club if you want to check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar's_Club
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fLRgl4F2sE
Blessings
Post by: wishingstar on October 19, 2011, 03:27:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
Post by: PureLove on October 19, 2011, 03:39:06 PM
Just wondering if any of you ever heard this before. JVM was interviewing Lindsay L's dad cuz she has court tomorrow, and he said that the GOvernor of Cali has something going on because of prescription drugs and celebs.
WHAT?? JVM didn't question or dispute his statement as though it is common knowledge..or...not suppose to be known.
What in the world is he talking about is going on with the gov. of cali and drugs/celebs???
Now that is interesting info. It can be related with the sting of this hoax. I'm very curious now. Thank you for sharing fordtocarr.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 19, 2011, 04:32:51 PM
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Post by: wishingstar on October 19, 2011, 04:50:15 PM
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Wow.....wow...wow....a thousands wow's........I couln't even make it past the first few bars before the tears started. This song always makes me emotional.....but in French, with her setting........simply wow. Thank YOU for posting it.......another brilliant thing to share. I love it so much! I have really come to love this artist....I had never heard of her before :oops: But, she is amazing for sure. Your eye for details astounds me still.......you're amazing. I am so glad you liked the video......if I can bring a little joy to a friend's day, I am indeed blessed!
Have a brilliant day! : )
Blessings!
Post by: IbrahimHosni on October 19, 2011, 04:51:40 PM
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Another Pic Showed Up In Court, But It's Kinda Weird.....Here Is Why "The date on the tiles beside his body appears to read August 25th, 2009 -- but MJ's autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date is wrong ... it should read June 25th. " Does It Mean Anything?? 2+5=7 , 9-2=7 7/7??? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney-2.jpg)
Post by: PureLove on October 19, 2011, 05:04:18 PM
Def. Atty. FLanagan asks "isn't Murray a doctor?"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SaodS3d5h8&feature=share[/youtube]
Post by: SimPattyK on October 19, 2011, 05:07:36 PM
Much LOVE to you bearhug and thank you once again!!!@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Wow.....wow...wow....a thousands wow's........I couldn't even make it past the first few bars before the tears started. This song always makes me emotional.....but in French, with her setting........simply wow. Thank YOU for posting it.......another brilliant thing to share. I love it so much! I have really come to love this artist....I had never heard of her before :oops: But, she is amazing for sure. Your eye for details astounds me still.......you're amazing. I am so glad you liked the video......if I can bring a little joy to a friend's day, I am indeed blessed!
Have a brilliant day! : )
Blessings!
I just recalled another EERIE COINCIDENCE !!
Michael invited Patricia to sing in his charity concert "Michael Jackson & Friends" Concert ~ Seoul (25-27 June 1999) Korea
NOTICE THE DATE ???? The 25th of June !!! and the year ? 1999 !!
After June 25th 2009, Patricia gave an interview for the release of her new album and among other things the reporter asked her about Michael and his death...she, as I said earlier ^^, spoke very nicely of him! and then the reporter HITS me with his remark to Patricia: "Isn't it strange that you sang on his charity concert exactly 10 years ago exactly on the 25th June??" to which she replies something like: "You're right, I didn't realize this" ... after all these 2 years as I started to learn about the hoax and notice all these connections I rather doubt she didn't realize that "COINCIDENCE" !!
This is the video that I posted on youtube with her appearance in that concert. She interprets 2 songs from her 1999 album "Le mot de passe" [ = "The Password"] - which is also my very favorite of hers!
The songs titles that she sings in the video are very interesting too: "Ma liberte contre la tienne" [= "My Liberty Against Yours"] and "Les eternelles" [="The Eternals" or "Immortals" if you like lolll ]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-M0NRttYXk[/youtube]
ps: I'm sorry to be a bit OFF topic here, but thanks to @wishingstar I just realized some more possible pieces of the hoax-puzzle! so... I think I'm not so off-topic after all lol
Post by: wishingstar on October 19, 2011, 06:45:12 PM
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Another Pic Showed Up In Court, But It's Kinda Weird.....Here Is Why "The date on the tiles beside his body appears to read August 25th, 2009 -- but MJ's autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date is wrong ... it should read June 25th. " Does It Mean Anything?? 2+5=7 , 9-2=7 7/7??? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney-2.jpg)
I am so glad this gurney photo is making the rounds again (no pun intended). I wanted to ask one more time.........if this is supposedly a dead Michael Jackson, why is the head elevated? Surely they don't elevate the head in the ER while doing chest compressions, or CPR or other things like that. If he died in the ER....would they then elevate the head, if so why? It make no sense. Also, if you really look at the arms...they don't match. One has tape and fluff stuff, one is more plain. One looks like it's holding a wire or tubing....why? IVs don't go into a palm, they go on top of the hand. The two hands are in different positions as well. Are these supposed to be taken at the same time? I also tried to find that amazing post about the style/brand of gurney.....Stryker. This gurney is definitely an older style.
Anyways.......SimPattyK...loved that Patricia Kaas information, she intrigues me to no end! : ) I will be looking further into that for sure!
Blessings...
Post by: paula-c on October 19, 2011, 06:50:52 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 19, 2011, 07:08:36 PM
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
http://twitpic.com/72t5la
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/427982734.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1319070037&Signature=QUrFouAJIyS1%2Bn1HbuupcQ2XbFw%3D)
Post by: fordtocarr on October 19, 2011, 07:10:05 PM
Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 19, 2011, 07:19:16 PM
lolol/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 19, 2011, 07:27:03 PM
Maybe....
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 19, 2011, 07:30:08 PM
Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
What I'm saying is that the rubber stopper will make sure Propofol will not leak from the bottle, so the bottle in the bag didn't cause it. Makes sense, since the IV bag was clear. To be able to get the propofol out with a needle and syringe, you will have to put air back in the bottle, so it takes a while until you have enough propofol in the bottle. That means Mike didn't do it himself in those two minutes (if this all really happened). So the prosecution may seem to have a strong case, they were still unable to prove how Murray killed him. If Murray OD'ed MJ, then I would like to know HOW that happened. Did he inject it right into the veins? Could be, but if so; why weren't his prints on the 'broken' syringe?
This case doesn't add up at all. The defense is weak, but even though the prosecution SEEM to have a stronger case, they don't make sense either. I wonder if the jury can see that too.
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 19, 2011, 07:33:46 PM
Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
What I'm saying is that the rubber stopper will make sure Propofol will not leak from the bottle, so the bottle in the bag didn't cause it. Makes sense, since the IV bag was clear. To be able to get the propofol out with a needle and syringe, you will have to put air back in the bottle, so it takes a while until you have enough propofol in the bottle. That means Mike didn't do it himself in those two minutes (if this all really happened). So the prosecution may seem to have a strong case, they were still unable to prove how Murray killed him. If Murray OD'ed MJ, then I would like to know HOW that happened. Did he inject it right into the veins? Could be, but if so; why weren't his prints on the 'broken' syringe?
This case doesn't add up at all. The defense is weak, but even though the prosecution SEEM to have a stronger case, they don't make sense either. I wonder if the jury can see that too.
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
Souza .... I agree.
It seems as if the Prosecution and Defense are just going back and forth taking turns on answering all of the questions that have come up in the last 2 years.
Post by: MissG on October 19, 2011, 07:54:42 PM
Murray is being accused but other doctors treated Michael as the professor explained today, as master-worker, I ask and you provide me that´s why I pay.
Again chewing on 2 years of thoughts, theories and speculations written in old notes here and there bangbang
It has been mentioned that Murray did not act as a Doctor, yes, but also Murray refers to Michael as his friend so by that equation, Murray went beyond in the relationship. What if he actually saved Michael? what if Murray talked to police and informed them about the huge medical negligence going on with Michael during the years?
The information about all the equipment needed to monitor sedation with propofol leads me back to the 90´s when Michael was given propofol during the tours to sleep. I mean, who can give me proof that back then the room where Michael was taking propofol was acconditionated properly as the professor explained today?
Michael was facing another set of concerts and demanded a Doctor, Murray, a Doctor who asked for proper medical equipment to AEG and AEG denied it...even when Michael said that the "machine" referring to himself needs to be taken care of.
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
Post by: wishingstar on October 19, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Post by: Grace on October 19, 2011, 09:18:55 PM
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
http://twitpic.com/72t5la (http://twitpic.com/72t5la)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/427982734.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1319070037&Signature=QUrFouAJIyS1%2Bn1HbuupcQ2XbFw%3D)
The five arm star is tattooed on Lindsay Lohan's left wrist.
The five arm star is pictured on Michael's sternum (a bone protecting the heart).
The five arm star is the Hollywood Blvd star everybody may step on.
Interesting that there is a "bubble" on Michael's shoulder which actually is the giving the chemical structure for H2O (water).
(O2 = oxygen and H2O = water are the elements most needed for life).
Another aspect I stumbled upon today is the fact that there was a Paul Schafer who was leader of a dictatorial settlement in Chile called "Colonia Dignidad". This settlement served as a concentration camp for several hundred persons, was known for torture and sexual abuse of children and is now called "Villa Baviera".
Quote
Drugs were also administered as a form of sedation, mostly to young girls, but to males as well. Severe discipline in the forms of beatings and torture was commonplace: Schäfer insisted that discipline was spiritually enriching.
Quote
Paul Schäfer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Sch%C3%A4fer), a former Luftwaffe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe) paramedic, was the founder and first leader ("Permanent Uncle") of Colonia Dignidad. He had left Germany in 1961, after being accused of sexually abusing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_abusing) two boys. On May 20, 1997, he fled Chile, pursued by authorities investigating charges that he had molested 26 children of the colony. In March, 2005, he was arrested in Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina) and extradited to Chile. (Schäfer was also wanted for questioning about the disappearance in 1985 of Boris Weisfeiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Weisfeiler), an American Jewish mathematics professor of Russian birth. [4]) Schaefer died in prison while serving a 20-year sentence at the national penitentiary in Santiago April 24, 2010, of heart disease. [5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Baviera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Baviera)
This much said to the "chilean students drinking propofol".
They existed. Only the drugs may have been different.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 19, 2011, 09:26:09 PM
/overreacting/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 19, 2011, 09:26:31 PM
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
IF there is a jury...could it be that 'they' are being tested? And that their verdict should be 'guilty' and not 'innocent'? I mean...if I was on that jury, knowing only what has been presented in court so far (especially after Shafer's 'performance')...I'd be thinking Murray's guilty of something. And unless something drastic happens with the defense's case...the jury will be deliberating on two things, 1) Murray is responsible for Mike's death, or 2) Mike is responsible for his own death. If I was one of them, it wouldn't even matter if Mike himself injected, ingested, snorted, or inhaled whatever killed him...Murray, as a doctor, is guilty.
But again...the defense hasn't presented their case yet...and it sure will be interesting to see what they have lined up...cause all their 'defenses' have fallen apart one by one. Maybe they have something that will throw this all into a warp-spin...but other than a BAM....I can't imagine what, at this point, will 'save' Murray. I'll definitely keep watchin'.
In the meantime...I agree that it sure would be nice if TS jumped in.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 19, 2011, 09:39:44 PM
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 19, 2011, 10:07:47 PM
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
@SimPattyK.......... :)ooohhh!! If you KNEW my sweet wishingstar! If you knew how much joy you gave me by just posting this video!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/coeur9.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnRRW2gINw&feature=related)
So many have sung this song, but Sarah Vaughan is amazing.......enjoy!
Blessings
It's because my favorite French singer also sings this song on her last released album....I'm talking about Patricia Kaas ! and her French version of the song:
OU SONT LES CLOWNS ? ou FAITES ENTRER LES CLOWNS
During her concert-show, when she sings this song she has a RED BALLOON and a dancer dressed as a clown on stage with her... I'm talking about her last album/tour KABARET - which is intended to pay homage to the '30s, especially the artists from the '30s, like Marlene Dietrich for example who was/is her idol.
And now....this connection to Michael's clowns... hummm Patricia is also crazy about color PURPLE, she even has a song about it "La nuit est mauve"...and I have found other "musical" connections like that between her and Michael. I wrote "musical" and not hoax-connection because I am not really convinced that Patricia is involved or not in the hoax or if she just happens to love Michael. After his 'death" she gave a few interviews where she spoke very nicely about him, in a very admiring tone... so....
Here is the video from her show... you can also notice she sings on a CHECKERED black & white floor!! Just like Michael in Ghosts-video and on the cover of "Blood on the dance floor". The stage decor also has a LADDER - which also makes me think about letter H , Elvis & the ladder that I discussed about in the topic on "Dr. House".... there are many many many artistic-links between them all![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oU9MmBSSI[/youtube]
Wow.....wow...wow....a thousands wow's........I couln't even make it past the first few bars before the tears started. This song always makes me emotional.....but in French, with her setting........simply wow. Thank YOU for posting it.......another brilliant thing to share. I love it so much! I have really come to love this artist....I had never heard of her before :oops: But, she is amazing for sure. Your eye for details astounds me still.......you're amazing. I am so glad you liked the video......if I can bring a little joy to a friend's day, I am indeed blessed!
Have a brilliant day! : )
Blessings!
Merci beaucoup j'aime bien la chanson de Patricia Kass ou sont les clowns.. Thank you I love that song, and everytime I hear it it puts tears in my eyes. blessings.
Post by: wishingstar on October 19, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
Very interesting thought......if so, I'd so be in contempt of court, sorry Judge Pastor, but WTF?? is going on in your court? I'd love to ask him what he thinks of all that we have found wrong..........starting with the seal, moving to those pictures and onto conflicting everything........are we truly the only ones who see this? Is this a real trial........or is it The Twilight Zone? I don't know......only the Shadow knows........OMGosh........The Shadow= TS :lol: :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow
Wow...how my mind travels......scary at times........ :lol: :shock:
One of the story lines:
Death Stalks the Shadow (Johnstone and Moorehead)
A killer on death row tells the Shadow that his seemingly respectable defense attorney is planning an insurance scam that will result in the deaths of several people.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html
Blessings
Post by: bec on October 19, 2011, 10:55:49 PM
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
But it's not supposed to be clear yet. Murray is supposed to look guilty. Only the BAM will illuminate the fact that Murray is innocent. You can't be guilty of manslaughter-ing someone who isn't dead.
It's the fact that if Michael Jackson can fool the world into thinking something MUST BE the truth because they see it with THEIR OWN EYES... then how much do TPTB fool us on a daily basis? How much of our perceived global reality is all just an illusion created with less then innocuous intentions?
Michael's doing it all for love, to show us that it can be done, it is being done, and yes, it is very possible to do; as most people think "MJ can't be alive, it's not possible". If Michael can fool us, they can too. And do. Wake up.
^^That's the message I get from it.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 19, 2011, 11:33:59 PM
[...]Anyways.......SimPattyK...loved that Patricia Kaas information, she intrigues me to no end! : ) I will be looking further into that for sure!Oh trust me...if until today or recently...I've been kind of ignoring all the connections, leaving them on the "She just likes Michael"-area , be sure that now I'm starting to really look more closely and dig up some more about her!
I met Patricia twice in 2009 after her concerts. I'll never forget those moments... I was 500% the luckiest! total by chance encounters! I've dreamt about for more than 10 years! and it finally happened! The first time was in Bucharest on the 14th of June. The second time I met her was on the 25th of July 2009 in France, in her native town after the concert. She's an amazing artist & an incredibly touching modest lovely person! totally dedicated to her fans! [don't we know anyone else just like that!? lol ;) ]
[....]Merci beaucoup j'aime bien la chanson de Patricia Kass ou sont les clowns.. Thank you I love that song, and everytime I hear it it puts tears in my eyes. blessings.Merci! ca fait plaisir a savoir!! ;) bisous
I believe that the star & and the H2o mark are 2 signs from Michael that this is only a movie! The BUBBLE leads me to the "monkey business" connections [with Elvis , Prince-the artist & all the color purple puzzle-piece] and also the Bubble can symbolize the BUBBLE-GUM and the balloons and the expression "It's all baloney!! a farce / a fake!" - I posted a montage on the previous page here.coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover http://twitpic.com/72t5la (http://twitpic.com/72t5la) (http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/427982734.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1319070037&Signature=QUrFouAJIyS1%2Bn1HbuupcQ2XbFw%3D)The five arm star is tattooed on Lindsay Lohan's left wrist.
The five arm star is pictured on Michael's sternum (a bone protecting the heart).
The five arm star is the Hollywood Blvd star everybody may step on.
Interesting that there is a "bubble" on Michael's shoulder which actually is the giving the chemical structure for H2O (water).
(O2 = oxygen and H2O = water are the elements most needed for life).
[....]
Both the star & and the H2O symbolize the movie industry....
- The star is obvious, especially with that Lindsay Logan connection! I always think of that movie she's gonna make in 2012 about the secret agency helping distressed STARS runaway from the hardships of a celebrity life, to fake their death and retire on an island! The director is Michael's friend - Brett Ratner!
- The H2O molecule looks like a Mickey Mouse head seen from the BACK: a big "bubble" representing the Oxygen and the other 2 smaller "bubles" are the Hydrogen!
The Mickey Mouse head / water molecule symbol also looks like an old filming-camera! I did a montage about this on the Dr. House topic... http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20291.25.html
It's this one, but there are others there related to this ^^
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4868/houseinfiniteladder.jpg)
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4825/mjelvis8ladderfilmhouse.jpg)
Post by: MJonmind on October 20, 2011, 12:37:43 AM
Quote
Dr. Steven Shafer said propofol is considered a "hypnotic"Did Evan Chandler as a dentist give propofol to Jordie and suggest things to him while under? Is there a link?
About the pic comparison between the out-of-session seal and the MJ’s striped tunic in the ‘Michael’ cover, isn’t it amazing that they are the same stripe as if the artist behind the album knew what would be shown in court. All pre-planned.
Just a thought on Murray, remember how from the beginning of the hoax, Murray is made to symbolize Michael in many ways. Today Dr. Shafer completely ripped Murray’s ability and actions as a Doctor to shreds and made him to be an incompetent imbecile. This is how the media has portrayed and much of the world sees Michael and why he is the brunt of jokes. Of course MJ is alive but maybe the Defense are going to present something to make us completely change our minds about Murray, just like the world needs to see the other side to MJ. Perhaps the Exhibit B, as someone said was Murray walking to the UCLA exit.
Just a few thoughts on today's Walgren questioning Dr. Shafer.
The doctor said that bile in the lungs would be fatal, and that's why doctors always tell patients about to receive propofol to have no food or drink for I believe it was 8 hours. But I hardly think MJ could have performed strenously each night at rehearsals without drinking or even eating the whole time. The danger of aspirating would have been very high. And Murray had no suctioning equipment at all. :-[
Are 'egregious' or 'unconscionable' words commonly used in trials? Walgren really emphasized them and the doc said them repeatedly. (Back used both words a few times too.) In total Walgren counted 17 agregious acts of Murray, things that each alone could have resulted in MJ's death, and which were forseeable by Murray to be prevented.
Walgren & Shafer both said, "Michael Jackson could be alive (if)"... lol. :mrgreen: How much dosage is dangerous? Shafer, "We are in Never Neverland." :lol:
He stressed how the single most important thing Murray needed to do was to keep MJ's breathing going, to get oxygen into his lungs, heart and cells. If he had never left his side he would have seen when MJ stopped breathing and by simply pushing down on his chin he could have cleared the passageway, or quickly put the sealed mask over his mouth and squeezed the air bag to give him oxygen. Shafer said he had only done mouth-to-mouth once too (just like Murray) but that it is very ineffecient life-saving technique because it only gives 18% oxygen and mostly carbon dioxide which the patient doesn't need. Murray had acted as if he didn't know why MJ's heart had stopped, when it only had to do with breathing. Oxygen reminds me of the 02 arena where the TII announcement was made and the hoax started. It's also atomic # 8 (infinity), represented by the symbol O, which could be all the bubbles on the 'Michael' cover. (By mass, oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe after hydrogen and helium and the most abundant element by mass in the Earth's crust.)
Post by: curls on October 20, 2011, 02:08:46 AM
It struck me with these 'experts' testimonies how they are purely going on what Murray said in his 'interview' with police. Pastor keeps on correcting them when they refer to it as Murray's 'testimony', as if to highlight that it was not made as sworn truth. Not quite sure where I'm going with this but it's like they're fabricating this huge 'Murray is guilty' scenario based on what was little more than his 'chat' with police.
If I was a TV detective I'd be asking myself if Murray made all this up to cover for 'someone else' ...... moonwalk_/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 20, 2011, 04:20:03 AM
Propofol is not to be injected directly but it has to drip through an IV?
Propofol is not to be swallowed because it has no effect?
I am not sure if it is a normal procedure to inject propofol with a seringe directly into the vein. Some doctor said propofol has to drip constantly from an IV during a surgery, so the patinet doesn't wake up?
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 20, 2011, 04:23:27 AM
Quote
* Shafer told prosecutors there are 2,500 articles about Propofol sedation... and only one -- very flawed -- article about Propofol and insomnia. He said, "We're in a pharmacological Never-Never Land. It's only ever been done to Michael Jackson in history as far as I know."
MJ, always ahead of his times!
/bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/
Post by: fordtocarr on October 20, 2011, 08:37:24 AM
Thank you :) I always value your input!! I hated to miss a part of the info, thank goodness I have you all to fill me in.Dr. Shafer explained how Michael couldn't have injected himself (it's not easy to get enough propofol in the syringe and takes a while) and how that bottle in the IV bag also wouldn't have done much. So how exactly did Murray gave him the overdose?Souza...
I missed the second half of the trial today as we had such high winds all the power in this area went out. I didn't get that part you are talking about. Are you saying that not only is it not possible for Michael to overdose with a syringe, but that Murray couldn't have overdosed him either?
What I'm saying is that the rubber stopper will make sure Propofol will not leak from the bottle, so the bottle in the bag didn't cause it. Makes sense, since the IV bag was clear. To be able to get the propofol out with a needle and syringe, you will have to put air back in the bottle, so it takes a while until you have enough propofol in the bottle. That means Mike didn't do it himself in those two minutes (if this all really happened). So the prosecution may seem to have a strong case, they were still unable to prove how Murray killed him. If Murray OD'ed MJ, then I would like to know HOW that happened. Did he inject it right into the veins? Could be, but if so; why weren't his prints on the 'broken' syringe?
This case doesn't add up at all. The defense is weak, but even though the prosecution SEEM to have a stronger case, they don't make sense either. I wonder if the jury can see that too.
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
Post by: paula-c on October 20, 2011, 08:45:03 AM
Paula-cQuoteDr. Steven Shafer said propofol is considered a "hypnotic"Did Evan Chandler as a dentist give propofol to Jordie and suggest things to him while under? Is there a link?
About the pic comparison between the out-of-session seal and the MJ’s striped tunic in the ‘Michael’ cover, isn’t it amazing that they are the same stripe as if the artist behind the album knew what would be shown in court. All pre-planned.
Just a thought on Murray, remember how from the beginning of the hoax, Murray is made to symbolize Michael in many ways. Today Dr. Shafer completely ripped Murray’s ability and actions as a Doctor to shreds and made him to be an incompetent imbecile. This is how the media has portrayed and much of the world sees Michael and why he is the brunt of jokes. Of course MJ is alive but maybe the Defense are going to present something to make us completely change our minds about Murray, just like the world needs to see the other side to MJ. Perhaps the Exhibit B, as someone said was Murray walking to the UCLA exit.
Just a few thoughts on today's Walgren questioning Dr. Shafer.
The doctor said that bile in the lungs would be fatal, and that's why doctors always tell patients about to receive propofol to have no food or drink for I believe it was 8 hours. But I hardly think MJ could have performed strenously each night at rehearsals without drinking or even eating the whole time. The danger of aspirating would have been very high. And Murray had no suctioning equipment at all. :-[
Are 'egregious' or 'unconscionable' words commonly used in trials? Walgren really emphasized them and the doc said them repeatedly. (Back used both words a few times too.) In total Walgren counted 17 agregious acts of Murray, things that each alone could have resulted in MJ's death, and which were forseeable by Murray to be prevented.
Walgren & Shafer both said, "Michael Jackson could be alive (if)"... lol. :mrgreen: How much dosage is dangerous? Shafer, "We are in Never Neverland." :lol:
He stressed how the single most important thing Murray needed to do was to keep MJ's breathing going, to get oxygen into his lungs, heart and cells. If he had never left his side he would have seen when MJ stopped breathing and by simply pushing down on his chin he could have cleared the passageway, or quickly put the sealed mask over his mouth and squeezed the air bag to give him oxygen. Shafer said he had only done mouth-to-mouth once too (just like Murray) but that it is very ineffecient life-saving technique because it only gives 18% oxygen and mostly carbon dioxide which the patient doesn't need. Murray had acted as if he didn't know why MJ's heart had stopped, when it only had to do with breathing. Oxygen reminds me of the 02 arena where the TII announcement was made and the hoax started. It's also atomic # 8 (infinity), represented by the symbol O, which could be all the bubbles on the 'Michael' cover. (By mass, oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe after hydrogen and helium and the most abundant element by mass in the Earth's crust.)
I remembered Chandler, charges of sexual abuse scandal behind all this there was something else behind the extortion and Chandler, Sneddon and all those people was someone else, I have no idea yet how it will end all this .. so far the trial have given me no clue to propose a theory, .. wait
Post by: BeTheChange on October 20, 2011, 11:15:22 AM
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
But it's not supposed to be clear yet. Murray is supposed to look guilty. Only the BAM will illuminate the fact that Murray is innocent. You can't be guilty of manslaughter-ing someone who isn't dead.
It's the fact that if Michael Jackson can fool the world into thinking something MUST BE the truth because they see it with THEIR OWN EYES... then how much do TPTB fool us on a daily basis? How much of our perceived global reality is all just an illusion created with less then innocuous intentions?
Michael's doing it all for love, to show us that it can be done, it is being done, and yes, it is very possible to do; as most people think "MJ can't be alive, it's not possible". If Michael can fool us, they can too. And do. Wake up.
^^That's the message I get from it.
I completely agree with everything you're saying...^^That's all a 'given' when looking at the overarching purpose of the 'hoax'. But, as we're both saying, in order for THAT to be the purpose of this 'part' of the hoax...the trial...then a BAM would make sense either before a verdict...or shortly after. It doesn't haven't to be...but it would IMO have more impact during that period, rather than a year from now when the trial will be a vague memory for most people.
But I keep going back to Jermaine's 'comments' about the trial NOT bringing Michael back. He, of course, could have meant it figuratively (for the 'benefit' of non-believers)...or he could've meant it literally (for 'our' benefit...i.e. there will be no BAM with the trial)...or maybe he was just trying to throw us off...who knows?
So what happens with that scenario if there is no BAM during or shortly after the trial? What if March comes around...and then August, etc....and there's still no BAM? Of course, the trial will still have had meaning...although it would be somewhat diluted by then....or maybe there's a whole other 'purpose' for the trial that still 'ties' in with the overarching message...but is more 'defined' (i.e. possible 'stings'...possible 'tests'). But even then, wouldn't a BAM make more sense sooner rather than later?
That's why I'm confused lol...there's absolutely no confusion over Mike being alive, nor that there is a 'purpose' for every single thing in this 'show', including the trial. As for trying to figure out Mike's 'thinking' about the perfect time for a BAM...I can only guess, cause it's literally trying to 'tap in' to the mind of a genius...without 'hindsight'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. On a whole other note...Batman Arkham City on PS3 is absolutely awesome!!
Post by: wishingstar on October 20, 2011, 11:49:22 AM
I can't help but remember in This Is It, when Michael talks about the closing of Earth Song, something like:
"....let it rumble, shake...the value would be greater if it closed in silence..." he was talking about the huge bulldozer on stage. However, if you put it in the context of this hoax and trial......wouldn't the value of BAM be greater if the trial closed in silence? If all we heard was the verdict and then nothing. Just when we thought he was through...he comes to give it again....bam. I want to be a fly on the wall when the media learns of everything .....retribution in the highest degree.
Anyways...great thoughts as usual : )
Have a beautiful day!
Blessings Always
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 20, 2011, 11:51:18 AM
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
Very interesting thought......if so, I'd so be in contempt of court, sorry Judge Pastor, but WTF?? is going on in your court? I'd love to ask him what he thinks of all that we have found wrong..........starting with the seal, moving to those pictures and onto conflicting everything........are we truly the only ones who see this? Is this a real trial........or is it The Twilight Zone? I don't know......only the Shadow knows........OMGosh........The Shadow= TS :lol: :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow)
Wow...how my mind travels......scary at times........ :lol: :shock:
One of the story lines:
Death Stalks the Shadow (Johnstone and Moorehead)
A killer on death row tells the Shadow that his seemingly respectable defense attorney is planning an insurance scam that will result in the deaths of several people.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html (http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html)
Blessings
You & I both! /judge/ I'm not familiar with The Shadow, but I caught the Never Neverland reference in the Court highlights shown on tv!
Then of course my mind went directly to Monster Rap lyrics... lolol/ But that's how my mind works. geek/
I remember somebody mentioned what might happen if they exhume the "body" bc of the additional testing they were doing for court... & of course there would be NO BODY. afraid/
That would definitely be a HALLOWEEN THRILLER! Remember how on stage when Michael would perform Thriller he was put into the glass coffin? Then when they pull away the curtain the coffin & MJ disappear???
/toldya/
Post by: bec on October 20, 2011, 12:03:31 PM
It would effectively shock the world and extend the hoax.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 20, 2011, 12:07:56 PM
Which takes me back to MissG's funny comment...maybe, in the end, we will have been 'lunatics' all along :lol: But, at this point...with everything we have come to KNOW...it is illogical IMO to think Mike's dead. It gets me really excited (like butterflies in the tummy excited)...to imagine that we could be on the brink of a BAM. It's been 2 longggg years...and I will still be here a year from now if need be....but, I'm more than ready to move on to the next chapter.
I guess all we can do is 'keep watchin'...and hoping, and supporting Mike no matter what.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on October 20, 2011, 12:47:50 PM
@Souza........
I have been wondering the same thing for awhile now.......is there really a jury? Or are we just being led to think that?
I guess we will know shortly...........btw, thank you for all posting of videos etc. It's a real help when I can't watch the trial live.
Have a great day/evening....
Blessings
Maybe we're the jury... /judge/ as is the rest of the world.
Very interesting thought......if so, I'd so be in contempt of court, sorry Judge Pastor, but WTF?? is going on in your court? I'd love to ask him what he thinks of all that we have found wrong..........starting with the seal, moving to those pictures and onto conflicting everything........are we truly the only ones who see this? Is this a real trial........or is it The Twilight Zone? I don't know......only the Shadow knows........OMGosh........The Shadow= TS :lol: :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow)
Wow...how my mind travels......scary at times........ :lol: :shock:
One of the story lines:
Death Stalks the Shadow (Johnstone and Moorehead)
A killer on death row tells the Shadow that his seemingly respectable defense attorney is planning an insurance scam that will result in the deaths of several people.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html (http://webspace.webring.com/people/as/sittingduck_1313/shadow.html)
Blessings
You & I both! /judge/ I'm not familiar with The Shadow, but I caught the Never Neverland reference in the Court highlights shown on tv!
Then of course my mind went directly to Monster Rap lyrics... lolol/ But that's how my mind works. geek/
I remember somebody mentioned what might happen if they exhume the "body" bc of the additional testing they were doing for court... & of course there would be NO BODY. afraid/
That would definitely be a HALLOWEEN THRILLER! Remember how on stage when Michael would perform Thriller he was put into the glass coffin? Then when they pull away the curtain the coffin & MJ disappear???
/toldya/
Yes, yes, yes.......that would be awesome.....I always thought the staging of Thriller was great. It is always great to watch....captivating each time. I caught up with the Never Neverland comment...I was like :shock: surely he didn't say that! I was amazed...it seems like comments are getting more bold.....almost made for non-believers to reconsider their thoughts. Leading a horse to water....never going to make them drink, however. Some people are so stubborn, lol. They are so boxed in with their thoughts/beliefs. I am glad we are outside that box....thinkers to the extreme.
Blessings
Post by: Michelle on October 20, 2011, 12:55:25 PM
I am so glad this gurney photo is making the rounds again (no pun intended). I wanted to ask one more time.........if this is supposedly a dead Michael Jackson, why is the head elevated? Surely they don't elevate the head in the ER while doing chest compressions, or CPR or other things like that. If he died in the ER....would they then elevate the head, if so why? It make no sense. Also, if you really look at the arms...they don't match. One has tape and fluff stuff, one is more plain. One looks like it's holding a wire or tubing....why? IVs don't go into a palm, they go on top of the hand. The two hands are in different positions as well. Are these supposed to be taken at the same time? I also tried to find that amazing post about the style/brand of gurney.....Stryker. This gurney is definitely an older style.
@Wishingstar /bravo/
You just asked the most basic question in a situation like this. What's the reason of the elevated head????
Personally i fall into the trap for staring the pic for a long time and looking for the tiniest thing to stick out by shouting hey it's FAKE!!!! But what you noticed is the simpliest yet the most huge clue about this picture!
Thanks ;) penguin/
Post by: SimPattyK on October 20, 2011, 02:55:09 PM
I have nothing to add, but my excitement (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Divers/E_JUMP_1.GIF) and this ... (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/emoticones-msn-envoie-bisou.gif)
Post by: peacock7 on October 20, 2011, 03:27:16 PM
This one may end up being "like a dream sequence" like the TV show Dallas ended up doing when the viewers/fans wanted Bobby back. Jermaine claimed a dream he kept having about MJ took him and his bros to Forest Glen/Lawn at the end of the Jackson Family Dynasty show. LOL!
Now since this is a movie/DOC/ARG/expose type of thing, a script can easily be explained by the scripter. Only said one has all of the answers. Most movies are fiction, and of course some are based on true stories. I find this one to be based on such - and it has its humorous side. MJ is doing/creating many things with thisun'. He's got it covered, because he is so brilliant, special and some more stuff.
I haven't been watching the trial or any of the after shows. I wished I would give the Nancy Grace's of the world the time of day. I do appreciate catching up here with what some are conveying. Thanks for this thread. Souza always thinks of everything. I think TS = The Source. I thought it back on old board. Where are we all from? THE SOURCE.
By the way, I agree with Souza and the like that wondered that since this is a movie (The Conrad Murray Documentary - Director Michael Jackson - remember this was how it was listed in the IMDB at one time), then there sure doesn't have to be a real jury. And please, if MJ had really passed Mrs. Jackson wouldn't have missed a couple of days to go to a tribute. LOL! That doesn't even make sense. Diana Ross wouldn't have been able to perform either. Smokey reads her letter about Michael at the Memorial - and she says - "Michael was a personal love of mine. I would like to thank Mr. and Mrs. Jackson for sharing Michael with the world and with me." Huh? With me? She should have just said - sharing him with the world. You're part of the world Diana. LOL! So, DOC Murray on trial for killing her baby - and she can still stand and sing strong on the 1st day of trial - and the rest of week. I don't think so! Omer would have taken his little short karate kicking self down there to that courtroom too for some REVENGE. LOL! I tell ya! I said all of this to say that, they know where MJ is and he is not in no tomb.
Now this may be farfetched, but remember when they showed MJ's parents for this bogus trial wearing the same clothes (blue suit Mama Jackson and Papa Joe also wearing the same clothes) from five years ago? How do we not know that we weren't being fed the same video from 5 years ago? With today's technology (we are all holograms by the way - and supposedly on the New Earth we'll be avatars) anything is possible. MJ was ready, willing and able and had the wherewithal to pull this thing off. Wouldn't that be something?
Because his parents are older, they would just look like his parents and not like five years older. Most wouldn't have been paying attention to them like some of us that did follow the 2005 trial (and I did). In other words, MJ and others could have been spliced out of the manipulated video from 2005 - and he could have fed it to us like it was his parents in real time. Matter-of-fact, a lot of this could have already been recorded just like this and the other day. LOL! Also, Murray could be computer generated at times, just like anyone else could, and faces could be superimposed, etc. I mean, there is so much innovated technology out there until it is not even funny, and I probably am not explaining it right - but some get where I'm coming from.
I still say that the four years to get it right (when he said it - it probably was in 2008) is our Redemption - which is Ascension. MJ and the Blue Eye pic = the Blue Star (Eye of God) Kachina according to the Hopi. I think those pics are recent. Seeing MJ is alive (but can ascend at anytime), why wouldn't he take some up to date pics (for message and hoax purposes)?
Here's my thing, when someone is filming a picture/movie, said one can take so many liberties - as it is said one's vision. We know that MJ is a Visionary that won't quit, and so since in the fifth dimension, there is only "NOW", then that means that what one imagines will be realized immediately. Doesn't this sound like MJ? He has always been like that, because he is so gifted and talented. He admitted that he is obsessed with creating. He's always known that he was the Master of his OWN REALITY - and that that is how it will be for all that are AWAKE in the near and not so distant future. Of course, for some, they got it like that now. Namely, Michael J. Jackson.
I won't get hung up on anything concerning this trial, and especially for the things that don't add up. I chalk it all up to it being a movie (and some MJ magic) - and therefore just like everyday life, "it's all an illusion." "Fame - fortune, they are all illusions." (MJ/Scarecrow (garbage in - garbage out) from the movie - The Wiz)
'Cause who is to say that that so-called doctor that claimed he gave MJ propofol back in the nineties is for real. Are you kidding me? That is bull crapola. That man could have gotten paid for selling that sorry story - but because MJ paid him to say it, it's all good. MJ is paying a lot of people/actors/actresses, et al. I think that many are doing it because they are in awe of him and his creativity. They can see and feel his light and aura.
Let's not forget that MJ is also punking those that have always believed the worse of him because it was in print or on one of those talkin' head shows. Those folks aren't journalists. I mean really! MJ read thousands of books they say - and had a library at his home for thousands of more. Yet these folks are more intellectual than him? NOT!
Please don't ever forget that MJ is/was not doing (all he has ever done) this just for hoaxers. "Let's Get Serious." Many people (fans and non-fans alike) watched 'This Is It.’ Newsflash to some - but he didn't make that movie ONLY for hoaxers. He was trying to reach a more global audience. He knew he had the pull/essence to do so. He wants the global community to wake up so that they can experience Ascension. No one can convince me otherwise. Plus he wanted us to "discover the man we never knew" and some more stuff - like connecting back with Mother Earth (GAIA) and The Source - God.
http://www.rainbowgatherings.org/profiles/blogs/the-ascension-illusion-unmasked-and-the-global-consciousness-2?xg_source=activity
Post by: BeTheChange on October 20, 2011, 03:27:42 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 20, 2011, 04:58:07 PM
Post by: MissG on October 20, 2011, 06:20:44 PM
Murray´s face reminded me of this scene...epic :lol: :lol: :lol:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw[/youtube]
wish to have the tools to create Dramatic Murray[/youtube]
Post by: MissG on October 20, 2011, 06:24:37 PM
Also, the way he explained the saline bag should be placed gives the theory of no propofol getting out WTF??
I´m lost again.
Post by: paula-c on October 20, 2011, 06:49:55 PM
(http://mulheresluxo.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/oj_simpson_gloves-noteboom1.jpg?w=227&h=264)
Post by: MissG on October 20, 2011, 07:00:24 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 20, 2011, 07:39:27 PM
The last piece of the chain is needed or Murray will be at the end the one who killed Michael, meaning that Michael is dead and we are a bunch of lunatics.
lolol/ That was funny...we're the only ones who don't think we're lunatics. Everyone around me thinks I've lost my flippin mind...could they all be right and I've lost it? Nope...because Mike IS alive...that's the ONLY thing I'm sure of.
I have absolutely no idea where this case is going...just when I think I'm 'getting it', they change things up, and I get confused lol. Before the trial, I was in line with the idea of 'an innocent black man already found guilty by the media and public'. But about a week into the trial...I couldn't see, based on the testimonies, how Murray could be found (or considered to be) innocent. He's admitted to being the last person to see Mike alive....in a room with enough meds to stock a pharmacy....a coroner has ruled that Mike died due to propofol...Murray admits giving him propofol...and Murray IS A DOCTOR. If Murray was just a 'friend' of Mike's, and not a supposed doctor, there probably wouldn't even be a trial going on right now.
But it's not supposed to be clear yet. Murray is supposed to look guilty. Only the BAM will illuminate the fact that Murray is innocent. You can't be guilty of manslaughter-ing someone who isn't dead.
It's the fact that if Michael Jackson can fool the world into thinking something MUST BE the truth because they see it with THEIR OWN EYES... then how much do TPTB fool us on a daily basis? How much of our perceived global reality is all just an illusion created with less then innocuous intentions?
Michael's doing it all for love, to show us that it can be done, it is being done, and yes, it is very possible to do; as most people think "MJ can't be alive, it's not possible". If Michael can fool us, they can too. And do. Wake up.
^^That's the message I get from it.
bearhug I love you bec!
This post made me smile big!
Post by: wishingstar on October 20, 2011, 08:09:54 PM
Part of why Shafer agreed to testify, is that he wanted to make sure the public understood the correct information about propofol. Part of this hoax is to assure people Michael is a good person....not the misunderstood monster he was made out to be in 2005. All of this is so similar to Michael's 2005 trial. Before the allegations, people didn't fear Michael....but after, we all know how he was treated....even though he was 101% innocent. Much like a bottle of propofol....it's only bad when rumors of abuse arise. When given the proper respect and care, propofol is a wonderful drug that does help thousands of people. See where I am going with this? Propofol becomes dangerous only when abused and mistreated....it will mess you up big time. Michael was abused and mistreated by those horrid allegations and subsequent trial. Like propofol, Michael is great when respected ....hell when he's not (as it should be). Fortunately, for us we see through it all and can enjoy his, "hell on wheels" right now. I don't think this is the only thing the hoax is about....just one more layer of thought to an otherwise fully frosted cake.
If Murray is a representation of Michael, then perhaps propofol is being used as a representation of the public's conscious. Don't judge an innocent man......don't fear, what you do not know.
It's a big wide world, a wonderful world if we put love back into it. The trial is a leap of faith in itself. Only this time the public should know better........but, alas they do not. I think BAM will happen in the perfect moment of time. Maybe we will end up with egg on our face. However, if that does happen I am prepared to make breakfast. Because what I have learned through all of this, nobody can take from me. I am stronger in my own thought patterns, reasonings and awareness. I dare say many people are as well....even if we are the ones being hoaxed upon, we will have the last laugh. Given all that we know, however, I believe Michael will indeed have the last laugh....as it should be.
Thanks for the help on the gurney question Michelle....I have no idea why a hospital would raise the head of a dead guy....maybe it makes for a better picture. Thanks BeTheChange for making me feel like I am not alone in my hoax head thoughts, lol! Thanks SimPattyK......I applaud you back! Ms Trinity333....I feel the magic....Thriller II is upon us! And Miss G...OMGosh......I just about piddled at that picture :lol: :lol: Can I be lost with you, lol!
Blessings.....always!
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 20, 2011, 08:17:03 PM
10-28-11 "In Time" with Justin Timberlake and Cillian Murphy
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637688/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637688/)
Quote
In the future people stop aging at 25 and must work to buy themselves more time, but when a young man finds himself with more time than he can imagine he must run from the corrupt police force to save his life.
11-11-11 Well, we know that 11 is a big number in the hoax.
11-11-11 THRIVE: What On Earth Will It Take? (exposing pharm, pres meds aka MJ's cause of "death")
11-11-11 "The Immortals"
Quote
Theseus is a mortal man chosen by Zeus to lead the fight against the ruthless King Hyperion, who is on a rampage across Greece to obtain a weapon that can destroy humanity.http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/)
Oh, don't mind me guys. Just making notes....
Now lets see. Mike wants to make films....
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 20, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Everyone, my thing is to me, this still reads and rings just like a movie. Just think about the thousands of movies that have been produced. Even TV shows, i.e., weekly dramas, as they have a script that tells a story. It has a beginning, middle and ending, unless the end keeps people hanging. Most are fiction based.
This one may end up being "like a dream sequence" like the TV show Dallas ended up doing when the viewers/fans wanted Bobby back. Jermaine claimed a dream he kept having about MJ took him and his bros to Forest Glen/Lawn at the end of the Jackson Family Dynasty show. LOL!
Now since this is a movie/DOC/ARG/expose type of thing, a script can easily be explained by the scripter. Only said one has all of the answers. Most movies are fiction, and of course some are based on true stories. I find this one to be based on such - and it has its humorous side. MJ is doing/creating many things with thisun'. He's got it covered, because he is so brilliant, special and some more stuff.
I haven't been watching the trial or any of the after shows. I wished I would give the Nancy Grace's of the world the time of day. I do appreciate catching up here with what some are conveying. Thanks for this thread. Souza always thinks of everything. I think TS = The Source. I thought it back on old board. Where are we all from? THE SOURCE.
Movie?...That's a real possibility. I'm not sure; but it's definitely a REALITY SHOW to some extent. /toldya/ I agree TS=The Source, or The Sign. He seems to have used a couple of interesting names. :lol:
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 20, 2011, 08:40:50 PM
@MsTrinity333, @WishingStar, @BeTheChange: I LOVE your comments ^^
I have nothing to add, but my excitement (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Divers/E_JUMP_1.GIF) and this ... (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/emoticones-msn-envoie-bisou.gif)
DITTO SIM bearhug
Post by: ilovemjforever on October 20, 2011, 09:02:30 PM
Hi guys, i am posting this video i saw on youtube,i find it very interesting.IT is about Lindsay Lohan,and Alberto Alverez and their possible connection in this hoax.I dont know if this has been mentioned before,so sorry beforehand.This video is from April,so its kind of old,but remember Lindsay is in court again,and i remember someone posted something about her father being interviewed by JVM,and he mentions the gov of CA having something going on with celebs and prescription drugs.Blessings to all.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 20, 2011, 10:09:17 PM
Apart from the Lohan connections...I LOVE that the video shows the 'car dancing' clip and part of the Brett Ratner 'interview'. Those have got to be two of my most favorite videos of Mike on youtube. It's two of the very few times where we see Mike (off the stage) being just plain ol' Mike lol...without an 'act' or a 'mask', without a media slant...just personal vids taken by a friend (and I do get the sense that Brett is a good guy--and that he is 'in the know').
No matter how bad a day I'm having...I cannot help but smile when I see him dancing in that car ::P . That clip is my anti-depressant :lol: I love the questions Brett asks Mike in the 'interview'...you can see a real difference in Mike (and in the questions asked/topics discussed)...when compared to any 'media' interview he's ever given. And that clip shown in the vid from the 'interview' with Brett is very interesting hoax-wise.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on October 20, 2011, 10:23:08 PM
10-28-11 The verdict is supposed to be read.
There is no way for anyone to know that with any certainty at all. Once both sides rest and the case is handed to the jury, there is no way of knowing how long they will deliberate before returning a verdict.
NOW. Either that information is being dropped by MJ's team (leaked) because it's a clue...
or,
...some journalist pulled it out his ass.
I personally tend to believe it's the former, considering 2 years prior on 10/28/09, TII was premiered.
Last year, 10/28/10, was the 490th day of the hoax, or 70 weeks of hoax. This counts 6/25/09 as Day Zero... much like Ground Zero... which I'm strangely ok with.
From and including: Thursday, June 25, 2009
To, but not including : Friday, October 28, 2011 [or the other way around, not including Day Zero]
It is 855 days [=9] from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date
Or 2 years, 4 months, 3 days [=9] excluding the end date
Alternative time units855 days can be converted to one of these units:
- 73,872,000 seconds [=9]
- 1,231,200 minutes [=9]
- 20,520 hours [=9]
122 weeks (rounded down)n/a
In any case, that's probably the reason this particular date was leaked. They used "verdict read" to get media attention so it was sure to be printed far n' wide... so we could pick it up as a clue. But there's no way they can reserve a date at this point to read the verdict [well, ok, they can actually, because it's scripted, but not everyone is supposed to know that yet].
Oh Ps, Moon, I love you too.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 21, 2011, 12:01:17 AM
If true...that would mean a very 'speedy' defense presentation...and most likely no rebuttal....and a speedy verdict. Or maybe something will happen on October 28th, during the defence's presentation, that will cancel out the need for a rebuttal and verdict. Either way...very interesting date.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 21, 2011, 01:23:13 AM
about your comment about possibly, no need for verdict, i too have thought the same thing. perhaps BAM will equate to a date that comes prior to trial ending and the trial will cease (according to some of the numbers that have been arrivaed at on this forum) and therefore no verdict, etc
but then i think to myself, no that can't happen. a verdict either way if it is G or NG, will give this whole court case / hoax the final 'kicker' that will highlight just how ridiculous the court system can be. if CM is found guilty, it will demonstrate how not only an innocent man can be tried but he can also be found GUILTY, with fake evidence, bogus testimonies and false documentrs / photos, when the so called 'victim' is still alive (when MJ Bams)
if CM is found NOT GUILTY, and MJ is portrayed to be a self medicating drug addict who either overdosed or suicided, via bogus testimonies, fake evidence, false documents / photos, and then he BAM's - the moral of this may be not to believe what we are told, look how poorly he was portrayed, yet see, BAM he is still alive! Therefore you shouldnt have believed anything from 05 and 93 also..
dunno, could be completely wrong. i just sorta think that verdict would really seal the deal on the lesson trying to be taught by MJ via this courtcase. who knows.... no one except magical MJ I guess... all i know is that imma keep watchin' very intently!
Post by: bec on October 21, 2011, 01:39:14 AM
I've been pretty vocal about the death hoax to everyone in my real life, and, well... someone mentioned lunatic? I'll be neatly tucked into that category when that day comes forth.
...not like I'm not already there. But it's a relatively simple cross to bear when you believe the burden to be temporary. Some of us have put our very reputation on the line by standing up for this. Regardless, I know The Truth Will Prevail. I was just hoping it would be Prevail-ing in connection with this trial.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 21, 2011, 04:18:23 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 21, 2011, 06:28:52 AM
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
Wow, Souza.....amazing! Thanks for bringing that to light......all these numbers/dates/etc....are amazing to watch see unfold. Even if nothing happens on a particular date/time, just the fact that they match up so well with things is amazing. Thanks again.
Have a great day!
Blessings
Post by: curls on October 21, 2011, 07:27:59 AM
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
Do you think jury deliberations and verdict can be on the same day then? Don't they usually take longer than that?
EDIT - Oops, sorry, for a moment there I was thinking this was a real trial! Of course anything can happen on any day, if it's the right time!
Post by: wishingstar on October 21, 2011, 08:34:52 AM
Hi...I'm back........sorry but honestly I am a little bit scared because of the picture..what is your opinion about it??
To be honest, I'm a little scared too but I am NOT giving up. I'm NOT throwing in the towel after 2 years. I'm not.
However, about the picture, why does he have straight hair? On June 24, according to the clip from TII, he had curly hair. Why was his hair straightened on that gourney? o.O
This photo, it is a fake look that hand /judge/ lolol/
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=edxvos.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Another Pic Showed Up In Court, But It's Kinda Weird.....Here Is Why "The date on the tiles beside his body appears to read August 25th, 2009 -- but MJ's autopsy doctor Christopher Rogers claims the date is wrong ... it should read June 25th. " Does It Mean Anything?? 2+5=7 , 9-2=7 7/7??? (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/11/1011-michael-jackson-gurney-2.jpg)
OK...after few :roll: moments, I now at least see where the arm photo came from......the other autopsy photo with the black square and red chest area......I still have yet to anyone answer me, and I can't find it anywhere on the net as to why they would.......why did they (the hospital or coroner) raise/elevate the head of a dead person? Also.....in the hand photo, it looks like he is holding a wire of some sort.......what is it? If it's an IV line....why? A coroner was involved, everything I have read states the autopsy would be done at that facility, not the hospital. So the coroner would have put the IV line in? I doubt it. Who took these photos and when....has that been told and I just missed it? All the reading I have done, I haven't read where they use an IV during or before an autopsy. These photos have to be before the autopsy. When looking at the other photo....compare the arms, bandages,etc...they seem barely off....the hand is a bit more closed, the bandage in the wrong spot....and why are the colors so good? A dead body has distinct coloring: (warning, graphically written website about coloring after death..but very informative)
http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html
I just don't buy these pictures as a "dead" Michael.......did the jury really take them as real?
Blessings
Post by: PureLove on October 21, 2011, 08:50:48 AM
For a non-english speaker it is easy to read and write but it is hard to understand what they say and it is double harder to speak it. I'm having a very hard time in understanding what they say at the trial as they use many different words that I've never heard before, so I lose it all most of the times. But what I can say is, after watching all these doctors, and toxicologist, I think we are going to become doctors when this ends. :lol: Michael is teaching us so many things and from so many different fields. :mrgreen:
Post by: BeTheChange on October 21, 2011, 09:06:20 AM
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
Wow...that's an even better scenario with it being a Thriller ;) . I am once again astounded at the amount of talent on this forum. Thanks again to bec and Souza and everyone good with numbers and dates. They are not my strong point...but they sure as hell bring a smile to my face and hope to my heart.
/bravo/
It wouldn't be that 'odd' if a verdict was read Monday, IF the defense 'rests' on Friday. Some juries have taken weeks to reach a verdict...but some have taken just minutes. And I FULLY 'get' what bec says about having a 'fear' of "that day arriving with no BAM attached"...it's why I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high, but I am praying for it.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 21, 2011, 10:21:54 AM
My guess is that the defense will rest next Friday (10/28) and that the verdict will be read on 10/31 (Halloween and exactly 333 weeks after June 13, 2005).
The 2005 verdict was read at 2:25pm (Eastern time)...and he 'died' at 2:26pm. Maybe this will also 'tie' in with the 'time' the verdict is read...if it's read on Oct 31st. The 'fire alarm' going off in court at exactly 2:26pm might have been a clue as to 'timing'.
This is all so very exciting!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 21, 2011, 12:40:35 PM
Now, to ME, it seems they are taking every step through this trial to make sure to prove the prosecutions case. HLN even said the same thing!!
I think, as it's public knowledge Flannigan has already won a propofol case, they are putting in someone who hasn't. I think they maybe preparing for an appeal. HLN says that Chernoff knows OFFICE law but not medical law as does Flannigan.
I think this will be interesting.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 21, 2011, 01:36:08 PM
Said if Dr. White talked to the media it could be "problematic"...
Post by: melody on October 21, 2011, 04:30:50 PM
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
Post by: wishingstar on October 21, 2011, 04:39:28 PM
Who is this? Is he part of Murray's defense team?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
I have wondered that myself....he sure likes his laptop. Is this the guy that Murray turned to yesterday...I missed that whole thing. Is there internet access from inside the courtroom.....either for just the lawyers, or everyone? I wouldn't think that would be a good idea for some reason. Maybe just the lawyers...maybe. But if everyone has access wouldn't too much information leave the court right away etc? I thought people had to surrender or at least turn off their cell phones. There seems to be a lot of active computer use in the court....does this really happen in cases like these?
Just wondering...............thanks for posting the pictures, hope we find out who it is.
Blessings Always
Post by: The RPM on October 21, 2011, 05:05:17 PM
My sister,a fellow believer and forum follower told me about this video and we both found the subject matter quite interesting,The comments about the prosecution "pulling a fast one"by opening the propofol bottle's sleeve,and then having to sign a stipulation with regards to if it had been previously opened.This sounds very similar to the incident with mr sneddon during the arvizo case involving the infamous pornagraphic magazine incident.As we all know sneddon used this approach to put fingerprints on the magazine in the hope it would help convict michael.Are we seeing an echo of the previous trial.I have to admit my reaction when i heard it was to shout the words "script"at the screen lol.
The other thing i couldnt help but notice was the rather obvious namedropping with regards to the "conrad murray was living in a pharmaceutical never never land",the fact they then used the words in history just sweetened the deal and made me sit back and again feel i was listening to a script (one that is a masterpiece may i add,the fact that they can slip in this little clues into a daily "drama"and a large chunk of the world literally doesnt realise.I seem to recall a court case in the UK recently were (if im correct on this)a police officer got into a rather large heap of trouble when it was discovered during a testimony for a court case,he had slipped several famous song titles into his time on the stand.So slipping the words "living" "neverland"and "history" (i feel these are the most important words)is either a little bit a bold move,hoping it wouldnt be noticed,or another little clue,As we get closer and closer i have to send my respect,admiration to every single one of you,you are all incredible,and have opened my eyes to not just hoping,beLIEving that michael will return.Until the next time or until that long awaited BAM day,i have to send you one of theselove and peace y'all
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 21, 2011, 06:28:24 PM
Who is this? Is he part of Murray's defense team?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
I have wondered that myself....he sure likes his laptop. Is this the guy that Murray turned to yesterday...I missed that whole thing. Is there internet access from inside the courtroom.....either for just the lawyers, or everyone? I wouldn't think that would be a good idea for some reason. Maybe just the lawyers...maybe. But if everyone has access wouldn't too much information leave the court right away etc? I thought people had to surrender or at least turn off their cell phones. There seems to be a lot of active computer use in the court....does this really happen in cases like these?
Just wondering...............thanks for posting the pictures, hope we find out who it is.
Blessings Always
That is Dr. White who is supposed to testify for the defense. He and Dr. Shafer have known each other for 30 years. They supposedly were White (Professor) and Shafer (Student) but Shafer denied that today. They both have written studies together and seperate. Dr. White rolled his eyes today at Dr. Shafer's testimony.
Keep Watchin' :mrgreen:
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 21, 2011, 07:10:30 PM
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Post by: PureLove on October 21, 2011, 07:28:35 PM
Who is this? Is he part of Murray's defense team?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b111d185dfcc85497b3210b707a9631730565dbfa5989ab2766fd8c968d7076a4g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9a9ded0a2c1240241b52af57c179c85ca9f0ab554588718cbb54ef61548155cc4g.jpg)
I have wondered that myself....he sure likes his laptop. Is this the guy that Murray turned to yesterday...I missed that whole thing. Is there internet access from inside the courtroom.....either for just the lawyers, or everyone? I wouldn't think that would be a good idea for some reason. Maybe just the lawyers...maybe. But if everyone has access wouldn't too much information leave the court right away etc? I thought people had to surrender or at least turn off their cell phones. There seems to be a lot of active computer use in the court....does this really happen in cases like these?
Just wondering...............thanks for posting the pictures, hope we find out who it is.
Blessings Always
That is Dr. White who is supposed to testify for the defense. He and Dr. Shafer have known each other for 30 years. They supposedly were White (Professor) and Shafer (Student) but Shafer denied that today. They both have written studies together and seperate. Dr. White rolled his eyes today at Dr. Shafer's testimony.
Keep Watchin' :mrgreen:
Thank you for the info Im_convinced. It is going to be interesting to see him testifying. :mrgreen:
Post by: fordtocarr on October 21, 2011, 07:42:58 PM
This was a very interesting day. Ed is very well on the way creating reasonable doubt. I definitely need to rewatch since I had to do some other things in the meanwhile, but Shafer had to admit that all he did for 3 days was give his opinion. His outcome is a theory, based on testimonies and medical orders. Apparently he also found it more reasonable that Murray (let's not forget that Murray is supposed to be a cardiologist) would throw a propofol bottle in a cut IV bag instead of administering it the proper way, than that Alvarez might have given a false testimony. Alvarez's testimony didn't add up in the first place, so why would the bottle-in-bag theory be more reasonable than Alvarez lying? He also alleged that Murray might have hidden evidence (one of the IV lines) because according to his theory, Murray must have used an extra one, because he purchased such a thing (4 times over 3 years). Yet if Murray wanted to hide evidence, why was all the other stuff still on the ground and did he even pointed the police to the bag in the closet? Funny how he says that extreme claims need extreme proof, yet he had no extreme proof at all that his theory was in fact what really happened.
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
I have found an article about Dr. Shafer and Dr. Katz on anethetics...it's a doctor Nathaniel Katz. I posted in under the Dr. Katz thread if it will help you. I hope you find me wrong.
About the witnesses in the courtroom, I ask ABC7 covering the trial and they said that the defense ask the judge to allow him in there...and he did. Otherwise, they usually don't allow it.
I also HLN, and they answered me on TV and said that "people wanted to know why he's in the courtroom" and it's because expert witnesses are allowed to listen to other witnesses testamonies. Which is NOT the same as the other people said about the judge allowing it.
To me...there have been a few experts..so that don't make sense.
I also ask them about the Dr. talking to the media...and they answered on tv again with this huge thingy about there may be a big problem with that issue by him doing that. We'll see :)
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Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 21, 2011, 08:34:21 PM
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Souza....I don't know what it's like in other areas of the world, but here in our little city in Michigan.....No one is allowed to take any electronic device into the courtroom. You have to go through a metal detector (just like they showed Michael going through during 2005 trial) and any cell phones either have to be taken to your car or left at the metal detector check in. I know this because my Mother in Law works at the courthouse as a court recorder, and my hubby works at our county jail as a corrections officer. My hubby can not even go into the courthouse with his cell phone...he has to leave it in our vehicle. I also have never heard of other witnesses being allowed in the courtroom while other testimony is being given....and they surely would not be allowed to have a laptop! It might be different in other courts, but that's how it is here!Love & Blessings to You All bearhug
Post by: paula-c on October 21, 2011, 08:45:10 PM
... .. where this all people?? (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9YitQ_p6ekc/TqH--Ctr8_I/AAAAAAAACi0/de2u4SWyQGU/s1600/1245984767c092V2.jpg) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FxiW0shxVlA/TqH_QuDrweI/AAAAAAAACi8/ZSKzPFFlUow/s1600/Jackson+Family+Arriving+UCLA+Medical+Center+m8AvzaBwwdfl.jpg)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 21, 2011, 08:46:28 PM
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Souza....I don't know what it's like in other areas of the world, but here in our little city in Michigan.....No one is allowed to take any electronic device into the courtroom. You have to go through a metal detector (just like they showed Michael going through during 2005 trial) and any cell phones either have to be taken to your car or left at the metal detector check in. I know this because my Mother in Law works at the courthouse as a court recorder, and my hubby works at our county jail as a corrections officer. My hubby can not even go into the courthouse with his cell phone...he has to leave it in our vehicle. I also have never heard of other witnesses being allowed in the courtroom while other testimony is being given....and they surely would not be allowed to have a laptop! It might be different in other courts, but that's how it is here!Love & Blessings to You All bearhug
Here in Virginia it is the same regarding cell phones or any electronics. When I have to go to court I don't even bother bringing my cell phone in with me, I keep it in the car. A friend of mine forgot to take her Ipod out of her purse and she wasn't allowed to bring it in so she had to make another trip to the car. I can only imagine that if it's a strict rule about cell phones and little things like Ipods that they would be this way with all electronics. I hope this helps.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 21, 2011, 08:48:54 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 21, 2011, 08:50:11 PM
Makes sense. Now it looks like as when the prosecution or the defense asks a question, the witness can say 'Hold on, let me Google that for you'...lolol/
Post by: paula-c on October 21, 2011, 09:00:04 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on October 21, 2011, 09:02:31 PM
Since Alvarez testimony does not add up, could he be one of the fall guys and "secret intruder" who might tried to kill MJ. He seemed very shady indeed. I believe that people can fall that bad for money, as our Michael sings "anything, anything for money".
Post by: scorpionchik on October 21, 2011, 09:06:21 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 21, 2011, 10:24:28 PM
This was a very interesting day. Ed is very well on the way creating reasonable doubt. I definitely need to rewatch since I had to do some other things in the meanwhile, but Shafer had to admit that all he did for 3 days was give his opinion. His outcome is a theory, based on testimonies and medical orders. Apparently he also found it more reasonable that Murray (let's not forget that Murray is supposed to be a cardiologist) would throw a propofol bottle in a cut IV bag instead of administering it the proper way, than that Alvarez might have given a false testimony. Alvarez's testimony didn't add up in the first place, so why would the bottle-in-bag theory be more reasonable than Alvarez lying? He also alleged that Murray might have hidden evidence (one of the IV lines) because according to his theory, Murray must have used an extra one, because he purchased such a thing (4 times over 3 years). Yet if Murray wanted to hide evidence, why was all the other stuff still on the ground and did he even pointed the police to the bag in the closet? Funny how he says that extreme claims need extreme proof, yet he had no extreme proof at all that his theory was in fact what really happened.
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
In the phone records of Alvarez have a call to M Amir Williams that lasts 1: 28 at 12: 18. Alvarez said he was in the trailer for security and describes who saw on his way to the hall. Roselyn, the babysitter, opens it the door, go to Paris to his side and Kai Chase
According to the statement of the chef Murray came to ask for help between 12: 05 and 12: 10. then this lasted between 8 and 13 minutes? Does MJ left all this time? Or did you CPR Meanwhile?
Alvarez said later that when it reaches the hall CM was going towards the room.
When Alvarez reaches the landing above ends the conversation with Amir (12: 19: 28)... we know that the 911 call starts exactly at 12: 20: 00 or 12: 21?
Then declares that CM entered the room just before him. But then declares that saw to get into it: "Michael was in bed with eyes and mouth open, with the head at the foot of the bed." "CM was doing compressions on the chest of MJ"! Do in a couple of seconds?
Then Alvarez declared that CM was doing compressions with one hand, his left hand, but he is right CM tells that they need to get an ambulance and take him to the hospital, AA picks up his phone, but at that moment children arrive and deals with them. He leads them out, returns and CM tells him that "MJ has had a bad reaction". Then there is kneeling next to the bed, grab some vials of the table and asks that the goal in a bag. AA States that CM gives instructions to do so and bearded saying that CM got the vials, using his right hand. Alberto does not say if CM ceases to make compressions while or change of hand...
Then CM drew you the tripod of the road and asked that he remove the bag. We are shown a picture with the path to the other side of the room, against the bed, next to the window and pictures of babies. Obviously someone had to move it.
Then AA declares that in the bag had a bottle with a liquid Milky shows a drawing he had made the stock market, but there are no bottle in the drawing. AA declares that the bag had a device attached to it. The bottle of propofol shown still contains the rubber of unemployment and a lid metal, devices for preventing leakage of the bottle, so it is impossible to the bottle which stuck in the stock market may leave any liquid... Alberto Alvarez in a barely seconds according to his testimony, does this in such a short time.... Alberto States that during the phone call placed to MJ on the floor with CM, he was picked up by legs and CM arms. Asked if he noticed any tube in the body of Michael and says Yes, a tube that ranged from his leg to the tripod of the track, CM removed the tube (not the path) by pulling it. But we know that Albert had already picked the tripod bag (tube would have fallen),... CM removed the route of the bag with the bottle of propofol before came Alvarez and her I connect to a saline bag without bottle, which would have no sense, that if CM had given time also would have hidden the bag with propofol, know that Alberto made many more actions than this in a few seconds, another option is that Murray never connect to MJ to a route with propofol that day.... the tube was clean! Propofol is milky but there were no remains of it in the toxicology and nor any other tube was found in the scene! suspicious//
Alberto Alvarez = "Flash" Gordon
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 21, 2011, 10:54:46 PM
I'm still laughing at Shaffer today during testimony holding IV tube, saying: "What is this brown stuff?"
LOL It reminds me of the white shirt found in MJ's "bedroom" with brown substance on it and a $3.99 (3+9+9= 21= 777) price tag on it.
Post by: MissG on October 22, 2011, 09:25:18 AM
I mentioned in chat and can sound off but, is this towards a theory of Jordan Chandler being sedated by his dad and Michael protecting him in his room and then all the accusations happened? or has all this to do with medical treatment Michael has been receiving in the past?
My general expression yesterday was :shock: :? WTF?? when listening to White and Shafer´s relationship and still today is WTF?? with some /scream/ and nearly a /white flag/
Regarding the laptop, i-pads and telephones. May be those devices are allowed as the alternative for pen and paper?
Post by: BeTheChange on October 22, 2011, 10:46:02 AM
This was a very interesting day. Ed is very well on the way creating reasonable doubt. I definitely need to rewatch since I had to do some other things in the meanwhile, but Shafer had to admit that all he did for 3 days was give his opinion. His outcome is a theory, based on testimonies and medical orders. Apparently he also found it more reasonable that Murray (let's not forget that Murray is supposed to be a cardiologist) would throw a propofol bottle in a cut IV bag instead of administering it the proper way, than that Alvarez might have given a false testimony. Alvarez's testimony didn't add up in the first place, so why would the bottle-in-bag theory be more reasonable than Alvarez lying? He also alleged that Murray might have hidden evidence (one of the IV lines) because according to his theory, Murray must have used an extra one, because he purchased such a thing (4 times over 3 years). Yet if Murray wanted to hide evidence, why was all the other stuff still on the ground and did he even pointed the police to the bag in the closet? Funny how he says that extreme claims need extreme proof, yet he had no extreme proof at all that his theory was in fact what really happened.
Also interesting that Katz was named. I wonder how this will play out Monday. I have one or two thoughts about it, but I want to see what happens next. Lat thing we learned was that there was no propofol in the brain according to the AR, so I would like to review Dr. Shafers theory sheets again.
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Great post Souza...and I agree with everything you're saying.
But...the fact is that Shafer WAS called in to give his 'opinion'...the reason his testimony is so important is because he is an expert in the field, and is, therefore, providing an expert opinion on what MAY have taken place that day...specifically, with the drugs (since that's his area of expertise). Likewise, Dr. White will be giving his 'opinion' as well...and will also be important because he, too, is an expert.
Neither Shafer nor White were present on June 25th (as most 'experts' called to give their opinions in cases were not present on the 'crime day'). All these experts can do is give their opinions based on the data and info given to them by all parties involved. Shafer stated that his module is based on 'doses'...the module then works off that data and calculates a scientific (math based) outcome...or probability of outcome(s). Since there is NO medical records that Murray kept that would shed light on 'doses' he gave MJ...all these experts can do is try to work backwards (so to speak)...to try to determine the doses Murray gave and if his 'statement' makes sense.
It isn't Shafer's or White's 'job' to determine if Alvarez's statement (or any other statement) to police was/is true...that is not their area of expertise...they can only go by what 'investigators', lawyers, police, etc have told them. But the 'science' of the drug(s) in MJ's system (info used by Shafer to reach his 'conclusions'...such as the autopsy report, toxicology report and Murray own 'statement')...don't rely on whether or not Alvarez (or any other witness) is telling the truth. The 'science' (i.e. Shafer's testimony) is grounded in scientific calculations based on the info he was given. IF the info he was given was NOT valid or 'fact-based', then it isn't Shafer's fault...he did his job based on the info he had.
Granted, he may have attempted to 'fill in some blanks'...(i.e. with the tubing, saline bag, etc)...but his 'opinions' on those issues are coming from an expert background in the medical field. And he was asked to 'fill in those blanks' by the DA...and Chernoff is going a great job at highlighting the fact that there is NO way to prove that's what actually happened (and therein may lie some reasonable doubt). But IMO these are inconsequential details when compared to what has been presented as TRUTH by both sides...the autopsy report, toxicology report, etc.
I'm sure White's testimony will have a completely different 'spin' on things...he is testifying for the defense afterall. But just as Chernoff is doing his job at trying to poke holes in Shafer's calculations...I'm sure that Walgren will be doing the exact same thing with White's testimony.
I have NO idea what's happening with this trial...i.e. where Mike is going with this...but, when all is said and done, the jury (if there is one and they aren't in on it) can only give their 'opinion' on what took place based on what they were presented with in court. Likewise, any experts called can also only give their 'opinion' based on the information/data they were given. Maybe the whole point (in trying to 'tie' this all in with 2005) is that ANY jury and ANY expert can be made to SEE things a certain way based on what they are presented with...'interpretation is KEY'...but 'interpretation' in trials is always based on something that's been analyzed, mixed in with 'slanted' perspectives based on what lawyers, investigators, etc are trying to prove.
When looked at that way...are 'trials' actually for finding the TRUTH about what took place...or are they victory 'notches' for people who have more 'important' things (other motives) on their minds...which have nothing to do with actual TRUTH?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: paula-c on October 22, 2011, 11:50:43 AM
is in spanish is AP
Los Angeles (AP) - the main lawyer for doctor accused of the death of Michael Jackson questioned on Friday a key witness for the prosecution about his statements that the doctor is responsible for the death of the singer.Attorney Ed Chernoff questioned the anesthesiologist Steven Shafer, who had declared that the only possible explanation for the death of Jackson was the musician was connected to an intravenous dispenser had sedative propofol and Dr. Conrad Murray had left him alone.
"This is a bold statement, isn't it?", said Chernoff.
"It is an honest statement," Shafer said.
Chernoff also questioned the researcher and Professor at Columbia University for his demonstration on Thursday before the jury on the use of the anesthetic.
Defence counsel suggested that Shafer came to conclusions which were not necessarily supported by evidence. Chernoff added that the tube to administer intravenous solutions Shafer was used in the proof was never found in the home of Jackson.
Murray has been declared innocent of involuntary manslaughter. If found guilty he could face up to four years in prison and lost his medical license.
Shafer is expected that the last witness to submit the Prosecutor's Office. When you finish the testimony of this lawyers begin presenting its witnesses and arguments.
On the other hand, the judge of the superior court Michael Pastor established a hearing for November 16 which will determine if the expert called by the defense, Dr Paul White, committed contempt by talking with a reporter on Thursday, as there is an order that prevents those involved in the case to speak with the media.
E! Entertainment reported Thursday on its Web site that White used a word profane to refer to Shafer or the Deputy District Prosecutor David Walgren.
White stated in court that did not remember having made such a declaration, and also told Pastor that he had spoken with Walgren once the Prosecutor exiling a tab on the side of a bottle of propofol was recovered in the mansion rented Jackson.
He added that he told Walgren "that it was inappropriate to manipulate the evidence found in the place".
White and Shafer are colleagues at Columbia University and is known from almost 30 years ago.
In a meeting behind closed doors before the Court will begin hearing Friday, Walgren requested that White was expelled from the room during the rest of the testimonies of Shafer. The judge rejected this request.
Chernoff said he was embarrassed by the incident with White and that he would ensure that it would not happen. He added that White had felt bad for the criticism made him Shafer during his testimony.
Pastor had already ordered during the trial that a partner for Chernoff, Matt Alford, had an audience for contempt then to permit so they talk on television
http://www.noticias24.com/gente/noticia/68185/abogado-de-murray-cuestiona-declaraciones-del-anestesiologo-de-jackson/
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 22, 2011, 02:13:24 PM
In my opinion the facts , as per trial, are:
- MJ died due to cardiac arrest
- there was some equipment and medication found in MJ house
- Murray was seen in UCLA on 25th of June
- Murray ordered some medication and equipment including lots of propofol before 25th of June
- Alvarez called 911 at around 12.21
Please feel free to expand the list.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 22, 2011, 02:24:26 PM
Looking how the trail evolves and what is the factual evidence (given death scene not guarded, Murray LAPD interview not being testimony under oath, sometimes conflicting testimonies from different witnesses) it all seems to be based on assumptions and opinions.
In my opinion the facts , as per trial, are:
The rest I guess is just all opinions and assumptions.
- MJ died due to cardiac arrest
- there was some equipment and medication found in MJ house
- Murray was seen in UCLA on 25th of June
- Murray ordered some medication and equipment including lots of propofol before 25th of June
- Alvarez called 911 at around 12.21
Please feel free to expand the list.
-Someone was getting CPR in the bedroom; on the bed, then on the floor.
-Ambulance was at 100 N.Carolwood, was trying to revive someone.
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 22, 2011, 02:31:25 PM
Looking how the trail evolves and what is the factual evidence (given death scene not guarded, Murray LAPD interview not being testimony under oath, sometimes conflicting testimonies from different witnesses) it all seems to be based on assumptions and opinions.
In my opinion the facts , as per trial, are:
The rest I guess is just all opinions and assumptions.
- MJ died due to cardiac arrest
- there was some equipment and medication found in MJ house
- Murray was seen in UCLA on 25th of June
- Murray ordered some medication and equipment including lots of propofol before 25th of June
- Alvarez called 911 at around 12.21
Please feel free to expand the list.
-Someone was getting CPR in the bedroom; on the bed, then on the floor.
-Ambulance was at 100 N.Carolwood, was trying to revive someone.
Exactly, thank you
- someone was taken from 100 N.Carolwood to UCLA
Post by: PureLove on October 22, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
And I also would like to know if it's allowed for witnesses to have laptops at hand or attend other testimonies. Seems a little strange to say the least.
Souza....I don't know what it's like in other areas of the world, but here in our little city in Michigan.....No one is allowed to take any electronic device into the courtroom. You have to go through a metal detector (just like they showed Michael going through during 2005 trial) and any cell phones either have to be taken to your car or left at the metal detector check in. I know this because my Mother in Law works at the courthouse as a court recorder, and my hubby works at our county jail as a corrections officer. My hubby can not even go into the courthouse with his cell phone...he has to leave it in our vehicle. I also have never heard of other witnesses being allowed in the courtroom while other testimony is being given....and they surely would not be allowed to have a laptop! It might be different in other courts, but that's how it is here!Love & Blessings to You All bearhug
Here in Virginia it is the same regarding cell phones or any electronics. When I have to go to court I don't even bother bringing my cell phone in with me, I keep it in the car. A friend of mine forgot to take her Ipod out of her purse and she wasn't allowed to bring it in so she had to make another trip to the car. I can only imagine that if it's a strict rule about cell phones and little things like Ipods that they would be this way with all electronics. I hope this helps.
It is even the same in my country. You can not bring any cell-phones or any electronics inside the court.
Post by: bec on October 22, 2011, 11:06:02 PM
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
I don't know what a fact in this hoax is anymore.
I do know that the events of 6/25/09 seem extremely unnecessary if it isn't all a big show. That body did a lot of public traveling that day. Every time "it" moved in the public eye was another chance of "it" getting discovered as a hoax. It was very risky and very very visible. It was almost certainly done on purpose, so it begs the question of why make the hoax the most difficult scenario to pull off that you can imagine? So many different people are bound to come into contact with that body, why so much risk? Why so much exposure? If MJ died at home he could have bypassed UCLA completely and left all those hospital employees, including doctors, out of the mix. Straight from paramedics to coroner, easy peasy. This is easier then taking the body to UCLA and needing to fool a whole bunch of people. But no. It was ascertained that the body would go to UCLA, Murray "insisted". So... why?
I say it's all for show, every last step, from ambulance backing out of Carrolwood, to UCLA, to helicopter, to coroner van, was all a show for us. Well, us and the media (which is fed by us) I mean. It was part of the movie, just like van video.
But that's not a fact either, of course, I'm just saying that makes more sense to me.
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 23, 2011, 03:33:06 AM
What equates fact?
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
I don't know what a fact in this hoax is anymore.
I do know that the events of 6/25/09 seem extremely unnecessary if it isn't all a big show. That body did a lot of public traveling that day. Every time "it" moved in the public eye was another chance of "it" getting discovered as a hoax. It was very risky and very very visible. It was almost certainly done on purpose, so it begs the question of why make the hoax the most difficult scenario to pull off that you can imagine? So many different people are bound to come into contact with that body, why so much risk? Why so much exposure? If MJ died at home he could have bypassed UCLA completely and left all those hospital employees, including doctors, out of the mix. Straight from paramedics to coroner, easy peasy. This is easier then taking the body to UCLA and needing to fool a whole bunch of people. But no. It was ascertained that the body would go to UCLA, Murray "insisted". So... why?
I say it's all for show, every last step, from ambulance backing out of Carrolwood, to UCLA, to helicopter, to coroner van, was all a show for us. Well, us and the media (which is fed by us) I mean. It was part of the movie, just like van video.
But that's not a fact either, of course, I'm just saying that makes more sense to me.
I am not talking about facts that will make MJ being dead, I am talking about facts that made the trial even to start, even these fact did not happen for real but as part of a hoax.
Like from time to time both defense and prosecution makes stipulation about something that will make this "matter" being facts. Like e.g. the fact that there was someone brought to UCLA in the ambulance.
Eye witness does not necessary be fact as it will assume the person is telling the true.
Post by: curls on October 23, 2011, 06:25:51 AM
Post by: Love4Michael on October 23, 2011, 07:45:28 AM
What equates fact?
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
They did have the dispatch sheet in court...the one where the paramedic wrote notes regarding their arrival time and Murray's alleged responses to any meds given prior to their arrival or known allergies...along with their subsequent treatment attempts. The cell records backed up when the call was placed so there wouldn't have been much reason to bring in the actual voluminous call logs from Fire Department Dispatch. If I recall...the dispatch record even showed the call initially going to another response agency and then being transferred to the proper one.
I don't know what a fact in this hoax is anymore.
I do know that the events of 6/25/09 seem extremely unnecessary if it isn't all a big show. That body did a lot of public traveling that day. Every time "it" moved in the public eye was another chance of "it" getting discovered as a hoax. It was very risky and very very visible. It was almost certainly done on purpose, so it begs the question of why make the hoax the most difficult scenario to pull off that you can imagine? So many different people are bound to come into contact with that body, why so much risk? Why so much exposure? If MJ died at home he could have bypassed UCLA completely and left all those hospital employees, including doctors, out of the mix. Straight from paramedics to coroner, easy peasy. This is easier then taking the body to UCLA and needing to fool a whole bunch of people. But no. It was ascertained that the body would go to UCLA, Murray "insisted". So... why?
Visible and risky...yes and no to varying degrees I'd say. This "process" had to be visible that day or it likely wouldn't have been taken seriously. We know it's a hoax...but for the hoax to have it's greatest impact the majority needs to first believe what they're being told. If there had been no coverage of these movements would anybody believe he had died? The ambulance, the helicopter and the van contained limited numbers of people...(all of whom are employed by governmental entities by the way). The only place that the "body" appeared that day where there was (supposedly) a large number of people was the ER. Once that stretcher got through the doors at UCLA we only have testimony that it was taken into an ER room where numerous doctors and nurses converged. What if it was only taken to a private room with a story that it was a VIP situation with limited access? Unless I missed something we only heard a version of events from 2 doctors. Where's the support staff...where's the big cheese that gave the okay for the balloon pump? Also...if I remember correctly...the staff was threatened with immediate termination if they spoke out with information regarding this case. So basically what I'm saying is that while it was necessary for credibility to have this massive media coverage of these movements...the actual risk of discovery may have been limited to fewer than it appears...and most of those may have been selected specifically and given their orders in advance.
I say it's all for show, every last step, from ambulance backing out of Carrolwood, to UCLA, to helicopter, to coroner van, was all a show for us. Well, us and the media (which is fed by us) I mean. It was part of the movie, just like van video.
But that's not a fact either, of course, I'm just saying that makes more sense to me.
Post by: bec on October 23, 2011, 08:11:09 AM
What equates fact?
Does an eyewitness account create fact? Do police evidence photos create fact? I'm not so sure about that.
Regarding it being factual that Alvarez called 9/11 at 12:21 I don't recall ever seeing a 9/11 Emergency Call Center record presented. Lots of phone company records, but no official record from the Call Center. Is that strange? I dunno, we saw the Paramedics report where it listed the 9/11 dispatch information, but I don't remember seeing the actual 9/11 Call Center's records presented. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even know if that's a fact at this point.
They did have the dispatch sheet in court...the one where the paramedic wrote notes regarding their arrival time and Murray's alleged responses to any meds given prior to their arrival or known allergies...along with their subsequent treatment attempts. The cell records backed up when the call was placed so there wouldn't have been much reason to bring in the actual voluminous call logs from Fire Department Dispatch. If I recall...the dispatch record even showed the call initially going to another response agency and then being transferred to the proper one.
No, I'm talking about the actual 911 call center records, not the LAFD records. LAFD records were shown: the paramedics report, and some alleged cell phone records (btw, I saw no carrier logo or equivalent notation that made them official-for all anyone knows they could have just been typed up and prepared on anyone's PC) but no 911 call center dispatch records.
911 call center dispatches to LAFD and LAPD and they have their own records.
Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say? I'm having trouble explaining.
Post by: curls on October 23, 2011, 08:37:11 AM
Although this is almost certainly more than 'only a movie', looking at it as such, enables me to explain everything.
If I go from the premise that MJ is alive and that this is a huge Jackson family production, everything falls into place. There are actors involved; other professionals who are knowingly (or not) playing a role as 'him' or' herself'; 'extras', who may not know what they're involved in, and the public who are watching what they think is reality, but what is in fact illusion/fiction. Contracts, salaries, confidentiality agreements and support from a few key people in high places iron out any wrinkles.
The world in general didn't know on June 25th that we'd started watching MJ's latest production (actually I think it started earlier than that, but that's another story!) - he didn't tell us the cameras were rolling on his latest project!
That's the genius part - to make it believable enough for most, but with just enough 'oddities' to attract those of a mind to look deeper.
Once MJ is back (in whatever form that may take) people will be asking themselves how on earth they didn't see it before! And that, I hope will be the start of an awakening on a much larger scale.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 23, 2011, 11:41:35 AM
Now, what exactly behind all these facts and testimonies, time will show.
Celebrity Death Hoaxes
A death hoax involves falsely reporting the death of someone still living. This kind of hoax has been a favorite of pranksters for centuries. Early practitioners of it included Benjamin Franklin and Jonathan Swift.
The most famous death hoax of all time was the “Paul is dead” rumor of 1968, in which the claim that Paul McCartney of the Beatles had died swept throughout America and Great Britain.
In recent years, hoaxes alleging that various celebrities have died have become a frequent fixture in the news. Much of the reason for the popularity of this hoax can be attributed to the internet, which has made such hoaxes easier to perpetrate. A would-be hoaxer simply has to produce an email or webpage that imitates the look of a credible news source. Concerned fans will then forward the fake news story to their friends, inadvertently giving the hoax greater visibility.
Some journalists have noted that, ironically, being the target of such a prank has become a mark of status in our celebrity culture. Michael Heaton of the Cleveland Plain Dealer noted that, “It is the zenith of cultural obsession to have false rumors of someone’s death spread like goose grease across the land.”
Below is a list of some recent celebrity death hoaxes.
Paris Hilton. June 2007. In June 2007 several articles posted online separately claimed that celebrity heiress Paris Hilton had died while in jail. One article, disguised to look like a CNN page, claimed she had been stabbed. Another article, disguised to look like a news release from Australia’s ABC network, alleged she had committed suicide. Paris Hilton was in jail at the time, but she was definitely still alive. See Paris Hilton Death Hoax (http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/Hoaxipedia/Paris_Hilton_Death_Hoax/).
March, 2006: Will Ferrell An obituary uploaded to the wire service iNewswire in March 2006 claimed that the comedian had died in a paragliding accident “after a freak wind gush basically blew Ferrell and his companion towards a wooded area where they lost control before crashing into dense foilage.”
January, 2005: John Goodman. An obituary that circulated by email claimed that the actor John Goodman had collapsed from a heart attack.
Eminem Rap star Eminem. In December 2000 news reports claimed that he was the victim of a car crash.
Susanne Shaw Suzanne Shaw of the band Hear’Say. In May 2001 the BBC reported she had been found dead in her home.
Lou Reed Rock legend Lou Reed. In May 2001 numerous radio stations reported he had been found dead in his apartment. Cause of death: Drug overdose.
Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears. In June 2001 a Los Angeles radio station reported that the couple had died together in a car crash (just like Eminem). It was a really bad year death-wise for Britney Spears because in October her death was reported again. Once more it was an automobile accident that did her in. In this second case a twenty-two-year-old hacker named Tim Fries managed to make it appear as if the report of her death was on CNN’s website, thus adding far more credibility to the story.
Johnny Knoxville Jackass star Johnny Knoxville. A notice on the internet claimed he had died “while being filmed parachuting from a biplane whilst eating a catering sized tub of Heinz baked beans, when his parachute failed to open.”
Carl Lewis Athlete Carl Lewis. In July 2003 he was reported to have been killed in a bicycle accident. The fake report was actually written by a biking enthusiast to draw attention to an abutment in a Houston park that he considered dangerous.
Michael Jackson Michael Jackson. Supposedly committed suicide in April 2004 by “consuming more than two-dozen sleeping pills,” according to an internet report.
Margaret Thatcher Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. A fake news story (disguised as a page from the Guardian) reported the passing of the Iron Lady. As a tribute to her, Stephen Hawking was supposedly going to speak in her voice.
Jon Heder Napoleon Dynamite star Jon Heder. An email rumor claimed he crashed and died while driving to Oregon. It partially read: “John Heder, lead role in Napoleon Dynamite, died of head injuries after undergoing a highway car accident two days ago. He was riding in the passenger seat on his way to Salem, Oregon with his friend Mike McHill when the driver supposedly saw a deer run in front of the car. Mike overcorrected and drove off a steep ten foot embankment after rolling three or four times.”
William Hung American Idol anti-hero William Hung. The source of his false death report was a faux-news piece on the site Broken Newz. He was said to have OD’d from heroin, leaving a suicide note that read: “I have no reason of living… my art which is my importance to the best everybody laugh to… I make end here… goodbye world of cruel.”
Post by: Andrea on October 23, 2011, 12:59:47 PM
Post by: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 10:52:02 PM
TS, will you post when pros rests and defense starts?
Maybe....
Good guess.
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
Post by: Adi on October 23, 2011, 11:01:35 PM
Ohhhh.....can't wait TS!
Post by: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 11:02:42 PM
Also i have noticed most people on here use the letters (TS) what does that mean?? its been bugging me! Thanks. :)
Seems that nobody answered this.
TS is yours truly.
If you want to spend a few days reading long posts about the hoax, see TIAI Revealed and Updates posted by my username, TS.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=125 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=125)
For shorter comments in threads like this one, I have the username TS_comments.
Hope that answers your question. ::P
Post by: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 11:09:20 PM
The 2005 verdict was read at 2:25pm (Eastern time)...and he 'died' at 2:26pm. Maybe this will also 'tie' in with the 'time' the verdict is read...if it's read on Oct 31st. The 'fire alarm' going off in court at exactly 2:26pm might have been a clue as to 'timing'.
Can you document the 2:25pm time? And was it Eastern time, or CA time? Does everyone else agree with the 2:25pm timing?
Thanks.
Post by: wishingstar on October 23, 2011, 11:14:48 PM
might it be a good guess that you have been enjoying the trial at least a little? Hope so.
@Imperfectangel....I am sorry I missed your note, things sometimes move quickly. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me...I'll try my best to help you. But, yes TS is a very interesting and informative member here....no real other way to describe him/her. Don't know what TS actually stands for.......TS, want to help out here, lol. Love ya TS........hope you know that! Like I said, please pm me....I'll do my best. LOVE 2 U...........both : )
Blessings to you........
PS> just read about the timing...will check into that......
Post by: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 11:21:27 PM
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
Post by: wishingstar on October 23, 2011, 11:23:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEkAOx_Fis8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEkAOx_Fis8)
Post by: Adi on October 23, 2011, 11:29:58 PM
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
OK - TS, I am officially lost with this bit in red.....have I missed something? :lol:
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 23, 2011, 11:38:16 PM
Seems that nobody answered this.
If you want to spend a few days reading long posts about the hoax, see TIAI Revealed and Updates posted by my username, TS.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=125 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=125)
have to say that the TIAI revealed posts (even the old ones) are worth putting the time into. have been reading them over the past few weeks. still have more to get through. even though i arrived here late ;) it has been the reading of some older posts that has really been able to help me put some of the pieces together for myself, in terms of some unreconciled questions, ete. these posts are helping me fill the gaps. more importantly look at the hoax with varying perspectives. i highly recommend reading them for any newcomers.
this forum has a myriad of important information and i take full advantage of the privledge of being able to access it
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 23, 2011, 11:40:54 PM
Post by: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 11:42:59 PM
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
Post by: wishingstar on October 23, 2011, 11:43:57 PM
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
OK - TS, I am officially lost with this bit in red.....have I missed something? :lol:
I am right there with you....I thought it was a juror's number at first. I searched it and one of the things that came up was Michael's patent on Smooth Criminal.....PTO can mean Patent & Trademark Office:
http://www.ehow.com/way_5255084_examples-patents.html
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 23, 2011, 11:44:09 PM
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
Post by: wishingstar on October 23, 2011, 11:45:46 PM
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
My bad.......not enough sleep, too much coffee...back later : ) thank you!
Post by: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 11:51:31 PM
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
That says "approximately ..." (and yes, it does say PDT, or CA time--not Eastern time).
Also, does every other report agree with the 2:25 time?
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 24, 2011, 12:13:07 AM
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
That says "approximately ..." (and yes, it does say PDT, or CA time--not Eastern time).
Also, does every other report agree with the 2:25 time?
Do you mean like, official reports ? I can only find random things like this blog, which updates at 2:25pm PDT that Michael was not guilty..
http://mementomoron.blogspot.com/2005/06/michael-jackson-verdict-imminent.html
Post by: wishingstar on October 24, 2011, 12:21:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi8HCUp_f5c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi8HCUp_f5c)
SKY News is a UK based company. The time being displayed at the start of the first count 10:14...however, we do not know what the time zone is they are actually broadcasting from. It doesn't add up though...if this feed is truly live....wouldn't it be a 10:20 something(closer to the 2:25 mark for PDT)? Watch it and see what I mean.....the timing is off from 2:25.....at least this one video. Where did 2:25 come from again?
10 felony/4misdemeanor charges.....*sigh* (10:14 am verdict being read) suspicious// if only we could pick apart this 2005 trial as well as the current trial.....I am sure we would bury the prosecution, lol.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 24, 2011, 12:26:36 AM
http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/
Post by: TS_comments on October 24, 2011, 12:30:13 AM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
Post by: TS_comments on October 24, 2011, 12:33:58 AM
Hmm.. i found a live blog from AOLTv, it updates the first verdict being read at 5:13, so maybe it wasn't at :25
http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/ (http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/)
That would be 5:13 Eastern time, or 2:13 CA time, right?
Post by: wishingstar on October 24, 2011, 12:42:22 AM
http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/mj/Index.html#crim (http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/mj/Index.html#crim)
Post by: wishingstar on October 24, 2011, 12:54:09 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/jacksonverdict.pdf (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/jacksonverdict.pdf)
Still looking........
Post by: TS_comments on October 24, 2011, 01:59:18 AM
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/GoldStar.jpg)
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784)
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg (http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg)
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg (http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg)
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475)}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
Post by: Starchild on October 24, 2011, 02:15:17 AM
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."Wouldn't that beat all. afraid/
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: bec on October 24, 2011, 02:18:45 AM
Post by: scorpionchik on October 24, 2011, 02:41:36 AM
on 9.57min there is a large clock above shows time 1.52 PT. If count there was a long waiting time after everybody entered to the court room, the verdict could be at 2.25 or even late but not early.
Jeeze, when I look at Michael, I am like oh boy this man is rock. He has suffered so much for nothing and be dead, would not be fair.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XslBN2ah9ic&feature=related[/youtube]
ON 2.52 MIN. OF THE LAST VIDEO, THERE IS A FAN'S WATCH SHOWS TIME I CAN'T FIGURE OUT. ANYONE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtIEgIqRz0g&feature=related[/youtube]
Post by: Adi on October 24, 2011, 02:48:59 AM
:mrgreen:
Post by: jono on October 24, 2011, 04:08:15 AM
TS = The Suspect lolol/Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."Wouldn't that beat all. afraid/
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Good to have you back TS! Or wait... You never left! bearhug
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 04:16:09 AM
Speaking of the jury: is there even a jury TS? ;)
PT0153 asked me to tell PF that there is a jury in the courtroom.
Speaking of the jury, here is an excellent observation by BeTheChange
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg362861.html#msg362861)
Please tell PT that he scored points with PF and that PF says thanks. :lol:
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Having shown to us multiple times that you have influence on the Jacksons, means you can indeed CHEAT. All you have to do is ask La Toya to tweet in your favour and you have 'proof' of your theory. But here is the tiny problem TS: It won't hold up in a court of law! La Toya -even if she tweeted that without having you ask her- is merely tweeting an opinion, which doesn't qualify as evidence. 'Objection Your Honor! Hearsay! - Sustained! Strike that last tweet.' :lol:
Bec was clearly being sarcastic, and so was I, so that can't be seen as proof either. So these points hold no merit.
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
Mystery person being Michael since he is not dead and therefor they did not take prints from his dead fingers. Still not proof of murder. But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
So you are saying that they can not be charged for being part of a murder plot because they added one star to the seal? Please support that with undeniable evidence. A sting? Yes because no one died. A murder? Nah... don't think so. /judge/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
So where does that leave the mystery person? And I think Murray cried because he realized all his baby mommas would take the stand and he would be outed as a playah to the world! Or there was something in his eye, or one of the Jurors gave him a nasty look, or he asked Ms. Brazil out for dinner and she said no. Who knows? Still not proof of murder.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have this magic ball here and that tells me you are not. Unless Murray has a secret mini-computer on his lap or this whole thing is all pre-recorded, I can say with certainty that you are not Dr. Murray :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
'Objection Your Honor! Hearsay...- Sustained.'
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/GoldStar.jpg)
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784)
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg (http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg)
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg (http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg)
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475)}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
How did I miss that star? That's neat. But anyways, a fake courtcase if this were a murderplot does not make sense. There is no need to have the court in on a murderplot, because you would want the scapegoat to be convicted. You only need one corrupt detective in to fabricate some false evidence on the scene.
So face it TS, you lost big time. But then again, you're not really trying because I know you can do better than that. Probably because you don't have real supporting evidence ;)
Post by: curls on October 24, 2011, 04:51:31 AM
Mystery person being Michael since he is not dead and therefor they did not take prints from his dead fingers. Still not proof of murder. But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?
They apparently did get his finger prints from somewhere though Souza:
People's 167: three page stipulation regarding fingerprints
"Fingerprint analysis was conducted in this case by the LAPD
crime lab. The following is a summary of the fingerprint analysis
results:
People's 30 (LAPD item #106) the 100mL propofol vial had one left
index fingerprint; this left index fingerprint was matched to
defendant Conrad Murray.
People's 118 (LAPD item #142) the syringe had one thumbprint;
this thumbprint was matched to coroner investigator Elissa Fleak.
The following item was printed, four identifiable fingerprints were
obtained from the item, no identification was made. That item being:
people's 29 (LAPD item #110) the saline bag with cut.
The following items were printed, two identifiable fingerprints were
obtained from these items, no identification was made. Those items
being: people's 156 (LAPD item #112) saline bag and people's 102
(LAPD item #104) a 20 mL propofol vial.
The following item was printed, one identifiable fingerprint was
obtained from the item, no identification was made. That item being:
people's 136 (LAPD item #107) a 20mL propofol vial.
In regards to items people's 29, people's 156, people's 102, and
people's 136 just mentioned the following individuals were manually
compared to the identifiable fingerprints and were eliminated as
the source of the fingerprint(s). Those people being:
- Conrad Murray
- Michael Jackson
- Alberto Alvarez
- Michael Amir Williams
- Faheem Muhammad
- Mark Goodwin
- Scott Smith
- Martin Blount
- Jimmy Nicholas
- Blanca Nicholas
- Elissa Fleak
- Kai Chase
The following items were printed and no fingerprints were obtained.
This means, although the items may have been touched or handled, no
fingerprints were obtained that could be used for either identification
or elimination. These items being:
- people's 138 (LAPD item #108) 2 midazolam vials
- people's 137 (LAPD item #109) 1 lorazepam vial
- people's 132 (LAPD item #113) 2 lidocaine vials
- people's 132 (LAPD item #114) 1 lidocaine vial
- people's 150 (LAPD item #116) eyedrops
- people's 149 (LAPD item #117) tube marked BQ/KA/RA
- people's 148 (LAPD item #118) bottle of marked ephedrin/caffeine/asprin
- people's 142 (LAPD item #119) 2 100mL propofol vials
- people's 143 (LAPD item #120) 7 20 mL propofol vials
- people's 144 (LAPD item #121) 2 lidocaine vials
- people's 144 (LAPD item #122) 1 lidocaine vial
- people's 147 (LAPD item #123) 2 lorazepam vials
- people's 146 (LAPD item #124) 4 flumazenil vials
- people's 145 (LAPD item #125) 3 midazolam vials
- people's 157 (LAPD item #112) IV Tubing
- people's 158 (LAPD item #112) IV y-connector tubing
- people's 159 (LAPD item #112) Syringe w/needle "
I took this info from near the bottom of Melody's long post here:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20939.msg365395.html#msg365395 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20939.msg365395.html#msg365395)
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 24, 2011, 05:37:43 AM
Hmm.. i found a live blog from AOLTv, it updates the first verdict being read at 5:13, so maybe it wasn't at :25
http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/ (http://www.aoltv.com/2005/06/13/michael-jackson-verdict-live-blogging/)
That would be 5:13 Eastern time, or 2:13 CA time, right?
I'm assuming.. ::P
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 24, 2011, 05:51:34 AM
Ttttconrad Sssmurrray
P.S- Would be nice to see DCM smile MORE once in a while.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 24, 2011, 08:09:40 AM
BUT...is there anything that says they fingerprinted the body? I mean...we got fed the story about him coming in with a different name. We know that supposedly LaToya took in an old ID and ID'd him with it...another story we were fed early. But, were have they said they printed that body. Michael's prints would, of course be in the system for them to use for court, as he'd been processed before. But, that "body"...have they said they confirmed him from prints to be Michael?? They are saying he didn't touch that syringe...okay...sure. But, they are trying to clear Michael from killing himself..and at the same time show Murray must've done it. I don't know...saying Michael didn't do it, don't mean Murray did..but anyhow...Has the body been printed??
Post by: BeTheChange on October 24, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
The 2005 verdict was read at 2:25pm (Eastern time)...and he 'died' at 2:26pm. Maybe this will also 'tie' in with the 'time' the verdict is read...if it's read on Oct 31st. The 'fire alarm' going off in court at exactly 2:26pm might have been a clue as to 'timing'.
Can you document the 2:25pm time? And was it Eastern time, or CA time? Does everyone else agree with the 2:25pm timing?
Thanks.
I was, most definitely, mistaken in writing Eastern time...thanks for correcting that. IF there is any truth to the 'theory' of the timing for the CM verdict tying in with the 2005 verdict timing as well as the 'death' timing...then it, of course, makes more sense that the 2:25pm (2005 verdict) was CA time, not Eastern. I just remember sitting in front of my tv on June 13th...anxiously awaiting to hear the verdict...it was a bittersweet moment.
But now you've got me questioning the actual 'time' of 2:25pm :? . Hmmm...much has been said (written) about 2:25pm being the verdict time...but maybe it's another case of 'copy and paste' without actual verifying. I will try to find some 'concrete' documentation of the 2005 verdict time and will post what, if anything, I can find.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. Off-topic: For anyone who has the opportunity to see the Immortal Tour...GO! It was absolutely spectacular....pure escapism. And it has Michael ALL over it. It's left me speechless.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 24, 2011, 09:40:54 AM
Sky News Live Coverage:
http://wn.com/michael_jackson_2005_live_court_verdict?orderby=relevance&upload_time=all_time (http://wn.com/michael_jackson_2005_live_court_verdict?orderby=relevance&upload_time=all_time)
And here's FOX news and CNN reporting the outcome of the verdict live at 2:18pm.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SlDIsewumw&feature=related
[/youtube]
So where the heck did 2:25pm come from??? And based on that...the CM verdict timing 'theory' tying in with the 2005 verdict timing and MJ's time of 'death'...just crashed :lol: .
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on October 24, 2011, 10:40:08 AM
So Wiki isn't necessarily a reliable source.
It was likely planted on Wiki, similar to how other "facts" have been planted or leaked along the way.
Post by: Shining light on October 24, 2011, 11:25:49 AM
"Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!" TS you say that you are Conrad Murray? respect/ You really want to put a shock into people you should say you are Tupac Shakur. afraid/ lol .I will make one more prediction" This is still far from over!" What you have just witnessed could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare.
TS, will you post when pros rests and defense starts?
Maybe....
Good guess.
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
It isn’t. It’s the beginning.
Post by: paula-c on October 24, 2011, 11:32:56 AM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
I'm sorry TS the seal is not a evidence ... you could call it a neglect ....
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8383/selloca.png)
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Post by: Andrea on October 24, 2011, 11:44:17 AM
Post by: _Anna_ on October 24, 2011, 12:00:49 PM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
I'm sorry TS the seal is not a evidence ... you could call it a neglect ....
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8383/selloca.png)
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
I don't understand, so the seal with 32 stars is correct? How could this be? this is an official photo
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 24, 2011, 12:27:22 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on October 24, 2011, 12:33:24 PM
If you go and search for a 2006 doc., you can see the seal from another room which has 31 stars in it. So the one that is ONLY in that room is a mistake. There's nothing weird, this is real but only a huge mistake by the ones who made this particular seal in this room. No hoax, as we thought.
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjury05-06/LACGJFR_05-06.pdf
Post by: Sarahli on October 24, 2011, 01:17:39 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 24, 2011, 01:24:42 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Yes, it is true suspicious//
Post by: _Anna_ on October 24, 2011, 01:29:06 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Post by: sigh on October 24, 2011, 01:30:04 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
I was about to ask the same thing ! It definitely looks shopped to me. Is as if his pic was taken outside (in the sun) WTF??
Post by: wishingstar on October 24, 2011, 01:36:16 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Yes, it is true suspicious//
LOL......I was in the middle of writing the same thing when I saw this posted a couple of times......it's almost like our eyes are focusing better these days! This photo is off for sure......in more than one place for me.
Blessings..
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 02:06:51 PM
Post by: wishingstar on October 24, 2011, 02:13:05 PM
There is so much I saw...but little time for posting right now......will be back : )
Blesisngs
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 24, 2011, 02:38:16 PM
:cry:
Post by: Yambo3003 on October 24, 2011, 02:46:44 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 24, 2011, 02:48:58 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 24, 2011, 02:57:09 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 24, 2011, 03:13:10 PM
Post by: Sarahli on October 24, 2011, 03:33:44 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Hmmm... I don't know what to say about these 32 stars now (I have been counting them several times again lol). I don't know why they photoshopped someone ... they could have waited for the person to be available... :?.. it seems strange to me and the work done is not good at all. I find it odd that there is a fake seal + a photoshop input on the same picture.
Now we must keep things in perspective and see that the fake seal + the "Michael" album artwork connected are clues for us to know that it was all planned. It's not something usual to have such a big "mistake". I don't know if one intent was to show us that the whole court is fake, but if it is then most probably a fake seal would not be enough, maybe that other parameters must be taken into account and considered. Obviously it's not enough given that these people on the picture are smiling under a "fake" seal. :|
Maybe that someone should tell them?
p.s.: how did you find that Paula? lolol/
Post by: _Anna_ on October 24, 2011, 03:48:49 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Hmmm... I don't know what to say about these 32 stars now (I have been counting them several times again lol). I don't know why they photoshopped someone ... they could have waited for the person to be available... :? .. it seems strange to me and the work done is not good at all. I find it odd that there is a fake seal + a photoshop input on the same picture.
Now we must keep things in perspective and see that the fake seal + the "Michael" album artwork connected are clues for us to know that it was all planned. It's not something usual to have such a big "mistake". I don't know if one intent was to show us that the whole court is fake, but if it is then most probably a fake seal would not be enough, maybe that other parameters must be taken into account and considered. Obviously it's not enough given that these people on the picture are smiling under a "fake" seal. :|
Maybe that someone should tell them?
p.s.: how did you find that Paula? lolol/
Sarah, in my opinion, the person inserted there is important as the rest of them and needed to be there. Probably there was a reunion at which he couldn't take part and gathering so many important people is not easy. For me, there's nothing strange with him inserted in the photo.
I checked all the documents from http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjreports.html (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjreports.html) and in each pdf.-doc. there is 1 photo with the whole jury but only in the 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 they stay in the room which has the seal with 32 stars. In the rest of the docs. they are almost always photographed outside the court except 2005-2006 where they stay in another room, bellow the great seal that has [dot]31 stars[/dot]. Why only in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 we see 32 stars in the great seal?
It's absurd. It's the COURT, it's not a drawing you show in class or a fake coin with the great seal that you pretend to sell. It's the COURT and thinking it deeper, on every possible aspect, after reading about California's history of admission as the 31st state, I find it impossible to be just a mistake made by the one who designed the seal for the room. Outside the court, right up in front of the entrance, if you search for photos, you will find the sign with 31 stars. This is cannot be a mistake... My logic refuses to understand such thing.
Go and check every doc. and see what I'm talking about. Only in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 they are photographed in that room with the 32 stars seal.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 24, 2011, 04:08:18 PM
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
It's impossible to prove a living man is dead. ;)
Post by: Sarahli on October 24, 2011, 04:17:36 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........the man in the right yes. This is not a game, as we can see and as I always said. Maybe the person couldn't be there at the moment when the photo was taken and if he's an important person he had to be in the picture too. Just because he was added there doesn't make this court a hoax.
You can go on the site and check many docs. to see. It's simply a mistake. Now I realize.
Hmmm... I don't know what to say about these 32 stars now (I have been counting them several times again lol). I don't know why they photoshopped someone ... they could have waited for the person to be available... :? .. it seems strange to me and the work done is not good at all. I find it odd that there is a fake seal + a photoshop input on the same picture.
Now we must keep things in perspective and see that the fake seal + the "Michael" album artwork connected are clues for us to know that it was all planned. It's not something usual to have such a big "mistake". I don't know if one intent was to show us that the whole court is fake, but if it is then most probably a fake seal would not be enough, maybe that other parameters must be taken into account and considered. Obviously it's not enough given that these people on the picture are smiling under a "fake" seal. :|
Maybe that someone should tell them?
p.s.: how did you find that Paula? lolol/
Sarah, in my opinion, the person inserted there is important as the rest of them and needed to be there. Probably there was a reunion at which he couldn't take part and gathering so many important people is not easy. For me, there's nothing strange with him inserted in the photo.
I checked all the documents from http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjreports.html (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/gjreports.html) and in each pdf.-doc. there is 1 photo with the whole jury but only in the 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 they stay in the room which has the seal with 32 stars. In the rest of the docs. they are almost always photographed outside the court except 2005-2006 where they stay in another room, bellow the great seal that has [dot]31 stars[/dot]. Why only in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 we see 32 stars in the great seal?
It's absurd. It's the COURT, it's not a drawing you show in class or a fake coin with the great seal that you pretend to sell. It's the COURT and thinking it deeper, on every possible aspect, after reading about California's history of admission as the 31st state, I find it impossible to be just a mistake made by the one who designed the seal for the room. Outside the court, right up in front of the entrance, if you search for photos, you will find the sign with 31 stars. This is cannot be a mistake... My logic refuses to understand such thing.
Go and check every doc. and see what I'm talking about. Only in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 they are photographed in that room with the 32 stars seal.
Yes Anna just trying to understand. I don't know how to explain that actually. How can they make such a big mistake??? Maybe that a fake court do exist? :P
Post by: Do on October 24, 2011, 04:20:39 PM
http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=50 (http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=50)
An excerpt:
This weekend I will continue working on where we left off last weekend, but I noticed something during the trial. I was trying to understand the significance of the 32 star Seal of the State of California and I wondered if it had anything to do with admiralty law. Since my husband and I were learning a bit about that this past summer, I went back to some of the links that explained what happens to a person the court room, and how our Constitutional “common law” was replaced by Admiralty law and very few American’s know it. This was another idea of “the bankers”.
P.S. scroll down halfway on the blog to read about the seal/flag.
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on October 24, 2011, 04:26:30 PM
coincidence "Michael" album cover
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784)
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg (http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg)
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg (http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg)
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475)}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet?
:shock: yes TS I'm scared :lol:
About the bubbles on the album cover: I saw the Judges verdict hammer in a bubble too: the trial in a bubble ;)
When you know that a bubble means fantasy/illusion, you might consider the trial as an illusion. The stars&stripes on the "Michael"cover can be seen as the American stars&stripes union flag together with bubbles, which could mean the entertainment industry & the American Dream, a dream, which is just an illusion and which can be shattered easily. Nothing is what it seems! Which reminds me of the lyrics of 'Hollywood Tonight'
"She gave up her life, to follow her dreams
Left behind everything, for the movie scene
Nothing more she could want, she was determined to follow her plan
She wanted Hollywood, she wanted it bad
Now that she got her dream, she became a star
It all looked so good, but only good from afar
Imprisoned in every paparazzi's camera, every guy wished they could
Now it's back to reality, for Ms. Hollywood"
AND the bubbles on the 'Michael' album could mean illusion/hoax (probably the meaning of the bubbles has been discussed on this forum somewhere).
Post by: PureLove on October 24, 2011, 04:57:53 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
Post by: Andrea on October 24, 2011, 05:03:02 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on October 24, 2011, 05:05:33 PM
I DO find it highly strange that only in the documents from 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 we find the jury photographed in front of a 32 stars seal. And I certainly doubt the photo is a joke as I doubt about this all being a game and that's why for me it never was and never will be. The 32 stars seal must have a serious reason and I find it so hard to understand how could such an important thing as the seal of a state, IN a court, have a so stupid mistake in it.
Edit: I downloaded a high resolution right now. There's something off there, the size scale of the 3 people in the very back. They are off size, not natural size compared to the angle. They are in the back, so they will look smaller, but not that much, they are too small.
The off people in the photo, in my opinion, are:
- The white haired man on the right
- the group of 4 people from behind: the man at the desk, the one at his right, the one behind him and the woman at his left. - Their dimensions are too little regarding the whole enviroment and the rest of the people. The seem photographed from a bigger distance not just from the rest of the people, but from anything in the room.
Of course, this is not justifying the 32 star seal.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 24, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
if there is an actual jury, they must be getting some kind of huge compensation if this is a fake trial, a jury in La county only receives 40$ a day, for 5 days that is only 200$...they had to take absence from their jobs and I'm sure some make more than minimum wage.
Makes you think, how they are getting paid and who is paying them?
Post by: PureLove on October 24, 2011, 05:10:38 PM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
First, there are the three points from last time: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360085/topicseen.html#msg360085)
You said I cheated, but I doubt that you are planning to elaborate on just exactly how I supposedly cheated?? :shock: :roll: :shock:
Also, you yourself mentioned the mystery person in the bedroom: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360969.html#msg360969)
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454)
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084)
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
TS you started to scare me now! pale/ pale/ pale/
afraid/
fresse/
NOT!!! :lol:
Yeah I bet you are Murray in Murray disguise. I KNEW IT! :lol:
Kudos to Mr King of Halloween. He scared many but not me! geek/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bGAChJ_K9c[/youtube]
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 24, 2011, 05:34:07 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bGAChJ_K9c[/youtube]
lolol/ lolol/
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 24, 2011, 06:28:54 PM
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 24, 2011, 06:32:45 PM
oh I just wanted to say that thing with the stripes on the seal that are similar with the stripes on MJ on the album cover is an amazing coincidence. Even the extra star is there WTF??
Ya... but we know there are no coincidences right? I knew something about that striped wall looked familiar TS. lolol/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 24, 2011, 06:36:52 PM
This photo is taken directly from the grandjury.co.la There is one photo of these people in the 2009-2010 document which doesn't have anyone photoshoped in it and still they are in front of the same 32 stars seal.
I DO find it highly strange that only in the documents from 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 we find the jury photographed in front of a 32 stars seal. And I certainly doubt the photo is a joke as I doubt about this all being a game and that's why for me it never was and never will be. The 32 stars seal must have a serious reason and I find it so hard to understand how could such an important thing as the seal of a state, IN a court, have a so stupid mistake in it.
Edit: I downloaded a high resolution right now. There's something off there, the size scale of the 3 people in the very back. They are off size, not natural size compared to the angle. They are in the back, so they will look smaller, but not that much, they are too small.
The off people in the photo, in my opinion, are:
- The white haired man on the right
- the group of 4 people from behind: the man at the desk, the one at his right, the one behind him and the woman at his left. - Their dimensions are too little regarding the whole enviroment and the rest of the people. The seem photographed from a bigger distance not just from the rest of the people, but from anything in the room.
Of course, this is not justifying the 32 star seal.
MJ commits the '32-star seal' crime and covers up with credible pictures.
We've been hit by a smooth criminal....
Post by: wishingstar on October 24, 2011, 06:38:18 PM
Blessings to you always!
Post by: fordtocarr on October 24, 2011, 06:58:31 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
OMG that was the FIRST and ONLY person I've noticed!!! then I typed...now I'll go look, but he is shopped in...
Post by: fordtocarr on October 24, 2011, 07:01:50 PM
this just dawned on me:
if there is an actual jury, they must be getting some kind of huge compensation if this is a fake trial, a jury in La county only receives 40$ a day, for 5 days that is only 200$...they had to take absence from their jobs and I'm sure some make more than minimum wage.
Makes you think, how they are getting paid and who is paying them?
I've been asking this question FOREVER!!!!!
and...I also think the back people are added :)
Post by: paula-c on October 24, 2011, 07:11:34 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Post by: paula-c on October 24, 2011, 07:19:51 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 24, 2011, 07:22:01 PM
@ PureLove /bravo/ THANKS for the video! ... I needed that. :lol:
PureLove....I needed that! Great video : ) Thank you!
Blessings to you always!
You guys need to thank to Mr King of Halloween. :mrgreen: He is amazing. And I LOVE Shrek. :lol:
Wishingstar, blessings to you always too. Thank you. :-*
Post by: fordtocarr on October 24, 2011, 07:22:41 PM
Remember me saying that a huge long running soap ended the day before the trial started. It ran for 41 years. Well, I see on of the actors from it in that jury pic. You decide!!
(http://http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJke7A_qVO_moA_SuJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dray%2Bmac%2Bdonnell%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26b%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic&w=200&h=300&imgurl=images.buddytv.com%2Farticles%2Fall-my-children%2Fimage%2Fray-macdonnell.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buddytv.com%2Finfo%2Fray-macdonnell-info.aspx&size=13.4+KB&name=Ray+MacDonnell+Biography&p=ray+mac+donnell&oid=b6a04dc4f9414913f5304569daa0d8ea&fr2=piv-web&fr=&rw=ray+macdonnell&tt=Ray+MacDonnell+Biography&b=0&ni=30&no=0&tab=organic&sigr=11kiquco5&sigb=12q9rtj8s&sigi=1242v3r10&.crumb=DpHLANQ.7ry)(I can't figure how to load it from my computer any more!! :( ugh...)
maybe the link will work and someone can side by side this guy.
FIRST MAN IN THE CHAIRS ON LEFT!!
(http://images.buddytv.com/articles/all-my-children/image/ray-macdonnell.jpg)
Post by: PureLove on October 24, 2011, 07:25:01 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Thank you. I've got an opinion about the photoshopped people in the picture. Maybe they couldn't go to the photo shooting and missed it and they were added to the picture with photoshop later. This can be the explanation of it. But what is the explanation of 32 stars in the seal?
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 24, 2011, 07:38:03 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Thank you. I've got an opinion about the photoshopped people in the picture. Maybe they couldn't go to the photo shooting and missed it and they were added to the picture with photoshop later. This can be the explanation of it. But what is the explanation of 32 stars in the seal?
That man with the white hair seems that he was glued in the picture lolol/ lolol/ Ok.. He looks weird, not the man, meaning a disguise. Not sure. It does not seem a picture like the othes.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 24, 2011, 07:44:18 PM
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
OMG! OMG! How about if he will prove Michael is alive?/ Why do you always think negative? Gina felicia I will tell you something, does it ever happen to you when you think negative your day is always upside down, bad things happens? If you are positive one day every thing good happens? You attract goodness? So try to see the bright side of the situation. Michael is alive. I understand with this trial, it is going more through Michael is dead, but reality is that Michael hoaxed his death, and they have to play the game that he is dead. Please No more negativity.... blessings.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 24, 2011, 07:55:24 PM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/351/greatseal.png)
Yes, the picture is definitely photoshopped. What about the bald dude sitting just in front of that white-haired man? It looks like they were added to the picture later. Where did you find it Paula?
In this link
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf (http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/pdf/2009-2010%20CIVIL%20GRAND%20JURY.pdf)
Thank you. I've got an opinion about the photoshopped people in the picture. Maybe they couldn't go to the photo shooting and missed it and they were added to the picture with photoshop later. This can be the explanation of it. But what is the explanation of 32 stars in the seal?
I agree that it's a possibility my only thought is, couldn't they have done a better job? Not to be rude but if it were between having a botched photo like this or having to reschedule the photo shoot, I would opt for rescheduling it. Perhaps we're missing something.
Post by: bec on October 24, 2011, 08:01:29 PM
And I think it's obvious at least one part of that pic is photoshopped.
Considering no one wanted to talk to me on the phone about 32 stars being on the state seal, I don't think we need to worry too much about this pic. The seals they use on the walls are not one-of-a-kinds. They are machine produced. An extra star does not appear on a court house's state seal by accident.
Post by: paula-c on October 24, 2011, 08:11:19 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 24, 2011, 08:16:50 PM
I had forgotten something, which seems to them this photo?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220)
Post by: RK on October 24, 2011, 08:58:56 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/cat_girl25/disguise_NA.png)
I had forgotten something, which seems to them this photo?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220)
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 24, 2011, 09:38:54 PM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead
wow that was very satisfying and also 'imaginative' TS. wouldn't you agree souza? ;D
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 24, 2011, 09:50:13 PM
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
It's impossible to prove a living man is dead. ;)
@mjfan7 - just wanted to say that i ♥your spritely confidence and positivity respect/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 24, 2011, 09:53:11 PM
As for the 'seal'...I have no clue what any of it means nor does it worry me one way or the other. I believed Mike was alive long before they turned the camera on in the courtroom...and long before anyone counted those stars. In a 'big picture' way, the seal doesn't come close to making or breaking it for me....it's gonna take a lot more than the 'seal' in the courtroom to make me believe that Mike is dead.
Which takes me to TS and his 'murder theory'....are we supposed to debunk the theory (i.e. TS, are you trying to be serious :lol: )? Cause we can debunk it...there's a wealth of info on this forum alone that can debunk 'murder'--or better yet, debunk the premise of that theory...i.e. that MJ is dead. And TS played an integral 'role' in leading those discussions by providing PLENTY of logical explanations as to MJ having faked his death...and a whole bunch more about how illogical a lot of things would be if Mike was, in fact, dead.
I don't like throwing people's words back at them (momma said that's rude ;) )...but TS, if your 'purpose' at this time is to seriously try to defend the murder theory...you can start by debunking everything you've written since day one (it would save me a lot of copying and pasting :lol: ).
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 24, 2011, 10:21:11 PM
I don't like throwing people's words back at them (momma said that's rude ;) )...but TS, if your 'purpose' at this time is to seriously try to defend the murder theory...you can start by debunking everything you've written since day one (it would save me a lot of copying and pasting :lol: ).
With L.O.V.E. always.
nice one bethechange. Love your comment!
for a new convert like me who is catching up on months of posts, i find TS recent posts quite comical. because all of the things written by TS (ages ago) that i have been reading whilst lurking around old threads trying to catch up, are fresh in my mind.... on this forus, I have two immediate goals and I dedicate time daily to each of those goals. first goal is to become familiar with previous / old posts that i have missed out on re: hoax, to ensure i am filling in all gaps. second goal is to stay abreast of all developments. so daily, have two windows open. I go back and forth between old threads to catch up and new threads to keep on top of courtcase info.... funny... on a daily basis i am reading conflicting things written by the same person.....
TS = The Suspect.... . or TS = Two Stories.... lol
or TS = Talkn' Shit! lolol/ I say that TS with all due respect/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 24, 2011, 10:30:57 PM
Press conference with Jermaine says 2:26pm..........
I questioned the 2:25pm time (2005 verdict), not the 2:26pm time (2009 "death").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)
"At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges."
That says "approximately ..." (and yes, it does say PDT, or CA time--not Eastern time).
Also, does every other report agree with the 2:25 time?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBDnaf_9mYc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/user/MJJRnetQuotePart 1/5: A comprehensive, independently created 40+ minute special about the full acquittal of Michael Jackson in 2005. The special includes hundreds of news segments from many networks, the full verdict reading, front pages from around the world, interviews with the jury, lawyers, prosecutors, friends, and talking heads galore. An emotional journey.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkAysa3h-0&feature=related[/youtube]
Contents:
01 - Introduction
02 - Deliberation Process
03 - Verdict Reached
04 - The Verdict
05 - The Aftermath
06 - Front Pages From Around the World
07 - Credits
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SlDIsewumw&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-1ppmBIWww&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT6KkGmIE-A&feature=related[/youtube]
I absolutely love these videos. I had no idea of the jury clock, whoa!
Someone is eating Crow, lol
They will be having Crow for breakfast, lunch and dinner ALL over again.
8-)
Peace
@TS-The time the verdict was read as far as I can tell is unknown. The 2nd video is when the verdict is being read. The lady read count #4 and #5 dated as 6/10/05. What is that about? I posted these videos before but I like the way they are put together so I am reposting. I will be answering your comments soon. ;)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb9quJKgWg&feature=related[/youtube]
@Souza-This is your video of the verdict being read. In this video count #4 and #5 the lady read it dated 6/10/05. Doesn't that seem odd? I wonder what that was about. 8-)
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 10:46:29 PM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead
wow that was very satisfying and also 'imaginative' TS. would'nt you agree souza? ;D
No, FAAAAAAAAAR from satisfying. He has to come up with something better. **pokes TS**
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 10:58:55 PM
That's 9 attempts to make your theory sound a little more plausible.
Post by: RK on October 24, 2011, 11:41:46 PM
http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo73/themechanixwife/mr-gruffs-the-impatient-dog.gif[/img]](http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo73/themechanixwife/mr-gruffs-the-impatient-dog.gif) (http://[img width=630 height=540)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 24, 2011, 11:59:21 PM
Hey TS, stop lurking and start defending your murder theory. Your attempts so far have been disappointing. Come on, use that big imagination of yours! ;)
lolol/
Okay, here we go ...
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead
wow that was very satisfying and also 'imaginative' TS. would'nt you agree souza? ;D
No, FAAAAAAAAAR from satisfying. He has to come up with something better. **pokes TS**
You guys may laugh but TS is pretty convincing to me with this proof errrr .
/overreacting/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 25, 2011, 12:05:51 AM
I personally believe Conrad cried because he felt sorry for himself.
Why he felt sorry for himself, I do not know.
Post by: _Anna_ on October 25, 2011, 12:19:06 AM
If one part of that pic is photoshopped then none of the content is reliable.
And I think it's obvious at least one part of that pic is photoshopped.
Considering no one wanted to talk to me on the phone about 32 stars being on the state seal, I don't think we need to worry too much about this pic. The seals they use on the walls are not one-of-a-kinds. They are machine produced. An extra star does not appear on a court house's state seal by accident.
There is another photo from 2010-2011 with the 32 seal and in that one no one is photoshopped in it.
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6775/31602942.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/31602942.jpg/)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6753/212ox.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/212ox.jpg/)
Post by: wishingstar on October 25, 2011, 12:22:14 AM
"As for the 'seal'...I have no clue what any of it means nor does it worry me one way or the other. I believed Mike was alive long before they turned the camera on in the courtroom...and long before anyone counted those stars. In a 'big picture' way, the seal doesn't come close to making or breaking it for me....it's gonna take a lot more than the 'seal' in the courtroom to make me believe that Mike is dead."
Yes, I totally agree....gonna take a lot more, indeed. I don't understand the proof of this at all. However, your use of "seal" got me thinking....there are many different uses for the word "seal"
- what we are seeing as a seal on the wall
-seal of approval
-Navy Seals
-Seal...the singer
-seal the animals
-seal the deal
-open and seal a letter or something else: to seal
I think someone had mentioned this line of thought before...but it's gotten lost in the shuffle. However, I do think the word itself is interesting to look at. TS thinks it's important enough to base a murder theory on.....so I have to wonder what we are missing. I need to look back through TS's posts or re-directs....seal seems familiar for some reason. Was there a seal reference early on?
OK...back over to the surveillance video thread, lol. I LOVE that video that was shown in court today. I can't help but think there is a wealth of information on them.
Have a great evening!
Blessings
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 25, 2011, 12:42:42 AM
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
OMG! OMG! How about if he will prove Michael is alive?/ Why do you always think negative? Gina felicia I will tell you something, does it ever happen to you when you think negative your day is always upside down, bad things happens? If you are positive one day every thing good happens? You attract goodness? So try to see the bright side of the situation. Michael is alive. I understand with this trial, it is going more through Michael is dead, but reality is that Michael hoaxed his death, and they have to play the game that he is dead. Please No more negativity.... blessings.
There is no negativity/bad luck or positivity/good luck, there is only GOD.
And there can always be found solid proofs to demonstrate that opposite ideas are valid.
Doesn't work only in mathematics. If you want to prove 200 30 = 8 10 * 10 60 you will prove it exactly because there's no way they can not be equal.
Unfortunately what we have here is not mathematics /overreacting/ .
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 25, 2011, 01:06:25 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fatalkiss/michael2.png)
coincidence :?: "Michael" album cover
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Level%206/GoldStar.jpg)
No, this can't possibly be a coincidence.
Not only are the stripes the same color, but the 1 star in the bubble (represents the extra star in the seal) is the same color and shape as the 32 stars (five pointed).
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg358511.html#msg358511
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20980.msg364784.html#msg364784
And to top it all off, the full picture has a gavel in one of the bubbles, which obviously represents the court case.
www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mural3.jpg
http://www.batangastoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this}, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
The gavel IMO represents MJ's trial in 2005 because of what side it is on during MJ's life. There is the picture of MJ above the gavel that looks like how he did during the trial and it is on fire. The gavel pic just so happens to work out for Murray's trial also. LMAO fresse/ Nice try. respect/
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/New-Michael-Jackson-Album-Cover.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson#Pepsi.2C_.22We_Are_the_World.22_and_business_career_.281984.E2.80.9385.29
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/MJ_Star.jpg/220px-MJ_Star.jpg)
Jackson's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, set in 1984
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-pointed_star
I learned something new today. I always drew a star like a pentagram because that's how I learned it when I was a kid. Very interesting the differences the star shape makes. The star in the bubble represents IMO MJ's Walk of Fame star which was set in 1984. There is alot of interesting things that happened in 1984 according to the wiki page. The star in the bubble being the Walk of Fame star also makes sense since it is on the same side as the Victory tour pic. :mrgreen:
I will be back later to finish answering your other comments. I gotta get some sleep now. Toodles. :D
Post by: bec on October 25, 2011, 01:12:44 AM
If one part of that pic is photoshopped then none of the content is reliable.
And I think it's obvious at least one part of that pic is photoshopped.
Considering no one wanted to talk to me on the phone about 32 stars being on the state seal, I don't think we need to worry too much about this pic. The seals they use on the walls are not one-of-a-kinds. They are machine produced. An extra star does not appear on a court house's state seal by accident.
There is another photo from 2010-2011 with the 32 seal and in that one no one is photoshopped in it.
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6775/31602942.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/31602942.jpg/)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6753/212ox.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/212ox.jpg/)
I dunno.
I do know those state seals are not one-of-a-kinds. They are machine made and so therefore cast in a mold. A 32nd star on the seal in the court room where Murray's trial is being held doesn't happen by accident.
Post by: wishingstar on October 25, 2011, 01:24:25 AM
OK, you've got me.....even I am lost with this negativity. If you compare apples to apples, or pure binary numbers to pure binary numbers.....sure it would be easy to understand a possible murder theory. However, that's been the entire framework of this entire hoax......we are comparing apples to elephants; drug bottles to airplanes; videos to toilets; documents to shadows and so on.........it's not about what we are comparing or figuring or seeing with our own eyes (like the seal).....it's about what we are believing in our own hearts. It's about faith.
You have made some wonderful points throughout this hoax. You picked up on several aspects that would have gone largely astray. Now, you're so negative. Don't let these things get you down. It's not a cake walk by any means. You have come so far, too far to quit now. Don't throw in the hoax towel yet. Use that hoax towel to your advantage....fan the flames of your curiosity again. Get interested interested in some part of the testimony we have been hearing and rip it to shreds. For me, that moment came today. The surveillance video is amazing.....go watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/user/JustMeSTKK#p/c/0/uFNPLfnNom8 (http://www.youtube.com/user/JustMeSTKK#p/c/0/uFNPLfnNom8)
This is a good channel for the trial. Start there and get curious again...you're a great thinker GinaFelicia, I have read some great stuff from you. Don't pay any attention to TS...he/she is just /cook/ (sorry TS, but really?)
We are here because of Michael.......listen to Kenny's words..."may that continue"....it has continued, and it will continue.....if you want it to. The murder theory doesn't hold water, doesn't have a pan to fry in.......it's one fry short of a Happy Meal. In short, it doesn't work. We have the proof written on our hearts....so do you.
Stay strong, my friend.........stay strong and just BeLIEve. LOVE YOU!
Blessings to all
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 25, 2011, 01:56:14 AM
So, according to the recent testimony, the phone call to 911 was place at 12:20:18pm. Can TS elaborate on this? Of course this is a major issue in the numerology presented by TS and others where the time the call was made was at 12:21pm (End of the world...etc) bangbang :?
Yes Yambo, that was what i thought too when i heard that yesterday.
The phone was picked up at 12:20:26, And the Total call was 12:20:46. so it Last 20 sec.?
I really love to know how TS is going to respond at this.
with LOVE and Respect.
Post by: bec on October 25, 2011, 02:02:36 AM
Post by: MJonmind on October 25, 2011, 03:39:24 AM
Bec
Quote
If one part of that pic is photoshopped then none of the content is reliable.I agree the tiny people in the back are way too small, so photoshop for sure. Anything official you would think should not be tampered with. Just wondering if there is any pic of the judge and seal behind him in the 2005 trial? If it is the same 32 stars seal that would be interesting. What about OJ’s trial, how many stars in the seal? Weren't they both on the 9th floor and the media on the 12th floor of the same building? About TS really wanting the verified time of the 2005 trial verdict given, maybe he wants to point out how completely difficult it is to really nail anything down as 100% solid fact in modern times. So much doctoring of pics, stories--the everchanging face of history. We know how in this Murray trial how hard it is to nail anything down. suspicious//
I'm getting to be unsure of everything now, EXCEPT that I KNOW that MJ is alive--100%!
Im_Convinced
Quote
The gavel IMO represents MJ's trial in 2005 because of what side it is on during MJ's life. There is the picture of MJ above the gavel that looks like how he did during the trial and it is on fire. The gavel pic just so happens to work out for Murray's trial also. LMAO Nice try.
I don't understand. All I see is right above the gavel bubble in the tree with the snake, is 2009 Michael in This Is It, which would pertain to this Murray trial.
This is slightly off topic but the movie Anonymous (same name as the V-mask movement) is coming out on Oct. 28,11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(film) about Shakespeare being a fraud. Remember we studied this topic a while back. The Edward de Vere character they depict as doing the actual writing is different than the name we discussed,--Christopher Marlowe. http://www.bardweb.net/debates.html Sony is distributing the film, Michael on 'Michael' is dressed in the Shakespeare style, and in the trailer, they give the words, "Between the lines, lies the truth." "We've all been played." Also the lines on MJ's tunic which match the seal background lines, may be a hint at the lines we need to look between.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBmnkk0QW3Q[/youtube]
Post by: curls on October 25, 2011, 03:55:16 AM
He explains line 3 says '12:21 is the time the call came into our despatch centre'. Line 6, '12:22 is the time the alarm comes into the station'. (I'm watching it again now to check) Then he gets confused and doesn't know what Beverley Hills PD means and referring to the last two lines of the print out he confirms Ms Brazil's statement that '12:21:04 is the call originating perhaps through the Beverley Hills PD that was then transfered to the closest responding unit'.
Did I miss something - where did 12:20 come from?
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 25, 2011, 05:49:44 AM
Senneff in his testimony on Day 4, goes through, line by line, the teletype print out regarding the 911 call.
He explains line 3 says '12:21 is the time the call came into our despatch centre'. Line 6, '12:22 is the time the alarm comes into the station'. (I'm watching it again now to check) Then he gets confused and doesn't know what Beverley Hills PD means and referring to the last two lines of the print out he confirms Ms Brazil's statement that '12:21:04 is the call originating perhaps through the Beverley Hills PD that was then transfered to the closest responding unit'.
Did I miss something - where did 12:20 come from?
Hello Curls,
I have written it down as she speaks, thats the way i came to this 12:20:26 picked up phone, 12:20:46 Total time.
I heard it myself, i wear a headphone when im listening to the trial so i was very certain on this one.Still i could have misheard it, then i apologise for bringing confusion.
Love to you
bearhug
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 25, 2011, 05:55:41 AM
Is it just me or there is someone photoshopped in that picture??? The white-haired man with white tie on the right.........
Yes I agree it really stand out.
bounce/
Post by: curls on October 25, 2011, 07:16:49 AM
Senneff in his testimony on Day 4, goes through, line by line, the teletype print out regarding the 911 call.
He explains line 3 says '12:21 is the time the call came into our despatch centre'. Line 6, '12:22 is the time the alarm comes into the station'. (I'm watching it again now to check) Then he gets confused and doesn't know what Beverley Hills PD means and referring to the last two lines of the print out he confirms Ms Brazil's statement that '12:21:04 is the call originating perhaps through the Beverley Hills PD that was then transfered to the closest responding unit'.
Did I miss something - where did 12:20 come from?
Hello Curls,
I have written it down as she speaks, thats the way i came to this 12:20:26 picked up phone, 12:20:46 Total time.
I heard it myself, i wear a headphone when im listening to the trial so i was very certain on this one.Still i could have misheard it, then i apologise for bringing confusion.
Love to you
bearhug
Thanks for responding Shy. I've managed to watch Dona Norris's testimony from yesterday (that I missed while I was on the phone!) here:
It's at the beginning:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rRtsRVQiRU[/youtube]
I think I've got it sorted now!
The call first registered at Beverly Hills Police Dept at 12:20:18, ringing at 12:20:21, picked up at 12:20:26, transfered to LAFD at 12:20:50, hung up at 12:21:03 and released over to LAFD at 12:21:04 - whole thing 46 seconds.
That's when the 911 call that we've all heard actually starts, when it is through to LAFD, at 12:21 That's when Senneff's explanation of the print-out comes in.
Is that any clearer?!
Post by: curls on October 25, 2011, 07:20:44 AM
Alberto Alvarez's timing of the call, if the purpose was to get 12:21 in somewhere, is made even harder when allowing for this extra connection time. Hmmm suspicious//
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 25, 2011, 08:01:19 AM
I missed the surveillance tape.
PS: I am not negative. I just feel like I don't know Michael anymore. I only thought I knew him.
Post by: JMseesMJ on October 25, 2011, 08:17:18 AM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 25, 2011, 09:07:31 AM
@wishingstar you are too nice, thank you.
I missed the surveillance tape.
PS: I am not negative. I just feel like I don't know Michael anymore. I only thought I knew him.
Nobody knows Michael. Michael let's us know what he wants us to know. That is his perogative to do so.. We have no business in knowing every aspect in his life. So enjoy what you know of him and especially the good things like Humantarian.. I missed the surveillance tape too.. Michael is alive I feel it in my bones.. blessings.
Post by: _Anna_ on October 25, 2011, 09:33:36 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 25, 2011, 09:37:03 AM
@wishingstar you are too nice, thank you.
I missed the surveillance tape.
PS: I am not negative. I just feel like I don't know Michael anymore. I only thought I knew him.
Nobody knows Michael. Michael let's us know what he wants us to know. That is his perogative to do so.. We have no business in knowing every aspect in his life. So enjoy what you know of him and especially the good things like Humantarian.. I missed the surveillance tape too.. Michael is alive I feel it in my bones.. blessings.
@ginafelicia...hugs to you !
@all4loveandbelieve....you took the very words off my keyboard! Nobody knows him......personally, it's part of what I love about him. He IS mystery and intrigue....not just a novel on the shelf. When I think of Michael Jackson, I think talent....and unexpected greatness at every turn. That being said, he's only human and the pressure of that must be huge. I would hate to think he tries to outdo himself each time for the lowly likes of me or anyone else. I would hope he pushes himself to the brink, only for himself, because it's who he is. From the greatest entertainer in the world to one of the greatest humanitarians ever......he's it. I suspect the world is about to understand all this much better. We have had the privilege of knowledge because for whatever reason we are open to this adventure. It's been like no other in history. Like we have been told for many, many months....the truth will always prevail, the truth will come out......when Michael wants it to. I am fine with that because I trust my instincts and trust Michael. I don't think he'd go through all this to hurt anyone. Even though, I am sure there are people he'd love to squish, lol. The natural occurrence of events with the hoax will take care of pond-scum.
Kings to you again Michael.......
Blessings Always
Post by: jono on October 25, 2011, 09:46:02 AM
This clearily shows the call wasnt placed at 12.21.04 as TS insistes it was. He said the button was pressed at 12.21.04 and NOT earlier,to be sure its not 12.20. This means this theory falls. Together with the others tied to it.
Yes, this is what I can recall too! And this is kind of important as it ties in with the numerology...
I think TS has some explaining to do! /toldya/
Care to comment on this TS? penguin/
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 25, 2011, 09:59:26 AM
I need to add a P.S. to that post ^^
Alberto Alvarez's timing of the call, if the purpose was to get 12:21 in somewhere, is made even harder when allowing for this extra connection time. Hmmm suspicious//
Thank u Curls for clearing that. in this post as in the previous one.
I feel a little sad about TS, for me this TIAI was a very romantic kinda idea that everything match with the numbers, and that he/ she is in the know..
Even though i still have my strong believe that Michael is well and so alive, no one going to change that.
I hope TS can explain this and debunk this, but i have no idea how, we shall wait and see what's going to happen....
LOVE and bearhug
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 25, 2011, 10:05:35 AM
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Post by: TS_comments on October 25, 2011, 10:20:23 AM
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang
Post by: BeTheChange on October 25, 2011, 10:30:40 AM
But for those that are SO sure that what they heard in court yesterday debunks TS (and everything he's brought forth for 2 years now)...the $999 is still open as far as I know. With Xmas coming...why not try to debunk TS with REAL evidence and win some spending $ for your trouble?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Mish1981 on October 25, 2011, 10:36:47 AM
I'm not sure what there is to figure out. The 911 call that is of value to us and to the trial is the conversation between Alvarez and the call center operator. THAT call/conversation began a few seconds after 12:21. THAT is the call we've been listening to for 2+ years. Not sure what is causing confusion here.
But for those that are SO sure that what they heard in court yesterday debunks TS (and everything he's brought forth for 2 years now)...the $999 is still open as far as I know. With Xmas coming...why not try to debunk TS with REAL evidence and win some spending $ for your trouble?
With L.O.V.E. always.
I went back and read 4c as Souza was kind enough to point out and I have to agree, I don't see where the confusion is setting in. As you said we've been given the same call for over 2 years with the same time on it. That has never changed. @Bethechange - you took the words right out of my mouth.
Post by: jono on October 25, 2011, 10:42:57 AM
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
I personally don’t think that TS is “debunked” at all, I just find it interesting that now all of a sudden we are getting information about the call not being dialed at 12:21:04 as stated by TS but earlier… Now, which one is it?? lolol/
TS wrote:
"With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call. Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through. So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.”
That does not go along with the latest testimonies about 12:20… Now, this does not debunk the numerology as it is much more comprehensive than just the 911 call…
Maybe you can clarify this Souza? Maybe 12:20 is just BS and part of the script, just like "Michael is dead"??
I don't have a good answer for this right now but I am sure you guys have! party/
Post by: paula-c on October 25, 2011, 10:47:07 AM
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang
TS, ...you don't do anything to defend the theory of " murder " :roll: :lol:
Post by: Andrea on October 25, 2011, 10:58:39 AM
Post by: Sarahli on October 25, 2011, 11:11:00 AM
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00833/25-06-2009-682_833066a.jpg)
About Dona Norris testimony and the document we've been shown it seems like the latitude and longitude are not the same as in the picture above. Is that normal?
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1512/911call3.jpg)
Post by: wishingstar on October 25, 2011, 11:52:08 AM
hey, BeTheChange.....get the merlot out, lol!
Blessings
Post by: _Anna_ on October 25, 2011, 11:56:58 AM
We know the 911 call was placed, for hoax/numerology purposes, at 12:21. Even if it was made at 12:20, it was widely reported as being placed at 12:21 and we have the screen shot to back it up. If the screen shot and reports are false, then it was done to suit the hoax. If this was not a hoax, the time of the call would not be a deliberate timing, as it obviously is. It could also be the this hoax/sting court is trying to disprove the hoax (while proving it at the same time)- another test of faith, as it were.Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 (or correct me; it was 18 or 26, but anyway, within 12;20 still) but in TIAI update was stated that the phone call was pressed at 12:21:04 exactly, to be sure you have almost a whole minute to redial if the line is busy. From the media we all got the 12:21 but you would know, being in the inside, that you called at 12:20. That's what I say. It doesn't matter it was reported in media.
I will edit the post and copy-paste TS's words.
TS's words:
Quote
First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call. Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through. So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.
This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 25, 2011, 12:15:01 PM
How is it that they got that angle and so clear of picture of the firetruck screen anyways? I have seen different versions...some clear, some not so clear. This version is among the clearest....almost too clear. I know Ben talked about it in his video....lol..."his video" like his 30 seconds of fame, lol. I feel things are changing and being revealed.....not as in murder, TS......as in just change and reveal. It's making us re-think everything......
hey, BeTheChange.....get the merlot out, lol!
Blessings
LOL...we may end up needing some of those IV lines that Chernoff was playing with the other day...ingesting the merlot may not 'cut it' before long :lol: . Maybe they can even give us that dried up weed they found in MJ's bedroom...every little bit helps lol.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on October 25, 2011, 12:24:03 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on October 25, 2011, 12:34:12 PM
I know exactly what I say and numerology can be both good and bad, depending on who uses it. I think that all of us who have learned a lot about the NWO/Illuminati know this. This is serious, not an useless pleasure in bashing/debunking anything. It's serious.
What I mean: TIAI in one way or another pushed the idea of 12:21 that ties with the other numerology (because that's what was available at that time. We were not there, in the room, to know more than what we saw on the screen photo. Only the ones in the inside would know they didn't wait 4 seconds after 12:21 to place the call as the screenshot clearily shows 12:20); if the phone call was placed at 12:20:26 then the statement in the TIAI quote above is wrong. Why?
Is anyone understanding what I say?
Post by: jono on October 25, 2011, 01:04:12 PM
Again, I feel I have to mention this before someone might make assumptions: I am not here to debunk anyone, and just because I very rarely post in this thread doesn't mean I don't read it. And most importantly, I am not throwing statements with no base. If anything, I want the truth and the fact is the phone call was pressed at 12:20:26, not 12:21.
I know exactly what I say and numerology can be both good and bad, depending on who uses it. I think that all of us who have learned a lot about the NWO/Illuminati know this. This is serious, not an useless pleasure in bashing/debunking anything. It's serious.
What I mean: TIAI in one way or another pushed the idea of 12:21 that ties with the other numerology (because that's what was available at that time. We were not there, in the room, to know more than what we saw on the screen photo. Only the ones in the inside would know they didn't wait 4 seconds after 12:21 to place the call as the screenshot clearily shows 12:20); if the phone call was placed at 12:20:26 then the statement in the TIAI quote above is wrong. Why?
Is anyone understanding what I say?
I hear you Anna! This is what I am wondering too… Maybe we are missing something here?… Or maybe this is just part of the show just like Michael is “dead”? A lot of the stuff from court can't be true you know, because Michael IS ALIVE...
*Thinking* bangbang
bearhug
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 25, 2011, 01:40:52 PM
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang
I KNOW!! It's one minute for simmering ;D bearhug .
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 25, 2011, 01:46:34 PM
Again, I feel I have to mention this before someone might make assumptions: I am not here to debunk anyone, and just because I very rarely post in this thread doesn't mean I don't read it. And most importantly, I am not throwing statements with no base. If anything, I want the truth and the fact is the phone call was pressed at 12:20:26, not 12:21.
I know exactly what I say and numerology can be both good and bad, depending on who uses it. I think that all of us who have learned a lot about the NWO/Illuminati know this. This is serious, not an useless pleasure in bashing/debunking anything. It's serious.
What I mean: TIAI in one way or another pushed the idea of 12:21 that ties with the other numerology (because that's what was available at that time. We were not there, in the room, to know more than what we saw on the screen photo. Only the ones in the inside would know they didn't wait 4 seconds after 12:21 to place the call as the screenshot clearily shows 12:20); if the phone call was placed at 12:20:26 then the statement in the TIAI quote above is wrong. Why?
Is anyone understanding what I say?
I understand exactly what you say, that is why I will take the liberty to tell you that you should learn to think and read. Rewatch the testimony from Dona Norris, listen to her actual words and think again. Like bec said: TS did not mention Alvarez, he said 'caller'.
That is the last I will say about it. If TS feels the need to explain it further, I am sure he will. I am done with it because Anna, with all due respect, I don't think you get it or will ever get it. I don't know if you simply are not able to, or if you do it on purpose, but if you are genuinly trying to understand, you should open your mind more and use it.
Post by: _Anna_ on October 25, 2011, 02:14:08 PM
Quote
so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call . Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through (me: from Alvarez, obviously). So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.
Also, TS says
Quote
Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.
I don't think that the 911 operators would call from a cell phone. It's clearily that the caller is Alvarez, not the 911 operator. Otherwise why "caller" and "operator"? Caller=Alvarez.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 25, 2011, 02:52:39 PM
Im_Convinced(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/V-1.jpg)QuoteThe gavel IMO represents MJ's trial in 2005 because of what side it is on during MJ's life. There is the picture of MJ above the gavel that looks like how he did during the trial and it is on fire. The gavel pic just so happens to work out for Murray's trial also. LMAO Nice try.
I don't understand. All I see is right above the gavel bubble in the tree with the snake, is 2009 Michael in This Is It, which would pertain to this Murray trial.
The picture(s) I was referring to are the ones on fire where the green V is. moonwalk_/
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 25, 2011, 02:53:19 PM
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
You may call me stupid i'm ok with that, but it makes me sad to be named as a TS debunker, i have never tryed to debunk TS, for me i couldn't figure it out so that's why i asked and put it here at the forum.
And i was hoping TS could debunking it, i said that it kinda makes me sad that it was not matching (in my opinion) and i really wanted to know the explaining from TS, because i hoped he could explain, i have read my post again, and i can imaging you read it differently then i suppose to meant ( so there was NO between the lines reading in my post) i Know because i have written it myself).
And yes probably i dont get it even after 2,5 years that's why there is a forum tho? to stay in contact with the ones who believe the same as i do.
I really regret that i have responded, this isn't my day obviously, next time i think not twice but 7 times before i responding to anything.
I'm so Sorry :-\
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 25, 2011, 03:04:19 PM
@Souza-You starting to feel like Ed when David was talking himself in circles with Dr. Shafer.
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/ohgetmeouttahere1-1.jpg)
Or maybe you feel like Flannigan when Ed is running his mouth. /woohoo/
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g392/cherrymoon808/drwhite-1.jpg)
Or my favorite; are you rolling your eyes at ALL of this blabber? lolol/
Post by: PureLove on October 25, 2011, 03:15:58 PM
This does look like Nicole Alvarez. Same hair line, ears, brow and jaw line. So our actors are playing more than one role. If this isn't Nicole, she is a really good and I mean good double.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/cat_girl25/disguise_NA.png)
I had forgotten something, which seems to them this photo?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=16500&start=220)
afraid/ afraid/ afraid/
OMG!
She looks definitely like Nicole.
Post by: wishingstar on October 25, 2011, 03:28:17 PM
How is it that they got that angle and so clear of picture of the firetruck screen anyways? I have seen different versions...some clear, some not so clear. This version is among the clearest....almost too clear. I know Ben talked about it in his video....lol..."his video" like his 30 seconds of fame, lol. I feel things are changing and being revealed.....not as in murder, TS......as in just change and reveal. It's making us re-think everything......
hey, BeTheChange.....get the merlot out, lol!
Blessings
LOL...we may end up needing some of those IV lines that Chernoff was playing with the other day...ingesting the merlot may not 'cut it' before long :lol: . Maybe they can even give us that dried up weed they found in MJ's bedroom...every little bit helps lol.
With L.O.V.E. always.
http://www.drinkoftheweek.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/inmyveinsdispenser.jpg
You crack me hic-up-up...excuse me.....
:lol: sometimes you just have to laugh......
Blessings
Post by: PureLove on October 25, 2011, 03:34:27 PM
I think TS is mocking us because we (at least some of us) were examining Murray so closely as being Michael in disguise--maybe he thought it was funny IDK! (TS=Murray) For 2 years he has carefully set us on track in this incredible death hoax, and now is kicking back having some fun--maybe killing time till the trial verdict. Or he has some purpose that only hindsight will reveal to us. We'll have to keep watching. I love your style TS. (Maybe-- The Star!)
Finally, someone else who thinks like me. YES, TS is just having a little fun here. It looks like he likes pranks. 8-) TS, you funny prankster, can't you see how you scare some believers? :lol: Stop creating controversy and confusion or don't because I'm liking it! :lol: geek/
Post by: PureLove on October 25, 2011, 04:12:20 PM
I admire the patience of TS that he is still trying to explain himself and the things he had said 2 years ago. Unfortunately I lost my patience to give the weak ones hope every time they lose their faith, and to tell and explain everything we have found till today. I did it several several and several times and I feel myself tired to keep on explaining the same things. I wish I had some more patience to discuss the same issues but I don't. Even if I had the patience and more time to do it, I lost my hope in some of the believers that they will be seeing the truth and become a firm and strong believer, a knower maybe someday. I don't believe that they will make it before Michael comes back. So, I do not feel like explaining everything once and once more. Therefore I'm not joining these ridiculous "TS debunk this" " TS said this but it is this" kind of discussions. Everything is clear to me and they can be clear to you too. It's just in your hands and it is your choice.
End of rant.
The Sign, I trust you and I love you. Thank you a million times for everything you have been doing for us. Love and bearhug
Post by: _Anna_ on October 25, 2011, 04:24:27 PM
What difference does it make if a witness say something different about the calling time? Geez! Guys, seriously! WTF?? We saw that it is 12:21 on the fire truck's screen, so who cares if it was made on 12:20 or 12:25??? And WHY? The clue was given with 12:21 and we SAW it literally on the screen. So that's it. The case is closed. Why need to dig it up and bring the case to TS' reliability after 2 years??? After all of the things TS showed and PROVED, what else do you want as a "solid" proof from him to become sure of his credibility? Everything is in front of your eyes, THOUSANDS of clues were given, what else do you want???
What's the difference? A very important one. To 12:21 911 call are tied a lot of calculations, which could fall right now and I am one of those who found a logic in these calculations. If a piece is wrong, the whole building can go down. So these falling down right now are important and I cannot pretend I didn't notice.
Nobody is here to debunk anyone. I, as probably others, ask when we do not understand or we find something off, like in the case with the time of the 911 call. I read again today what TS wrote about this, and as it is different from what we've been informed by the witnesses in court, I stated an opinion.
So, TS said:
Quote
This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
What I said was simply that these two versions do not match. I wasn't there, nobody from here was there, and as a person from inside (as TS is supposed, so far, to be) you know more than what's said in the media. So, you go straight ahead with a theory and with a long chain of calculations but what if they are proven wrong or if inconsistenes surface? Like here. Refuse or avoid an answer is weird and out of place at this stage, because a lot of us, even if many don't post anymore, want to find the truth of all this.
Post by: jono on October 25, 2011, 04:33:02 PM
So now members are not allowed to ask some questions? Maybe some of us aren’t as smart and need some help to understand?
I feel really stupid and not really welcome in here to be honest… /white flag/ Thankfully I do see over this particular situation…
I, for one do not understand everything in this comprehensive hoax but that does not make me question the credibility of TS or whether Michael is alive or not... Well... I just feel sorry for some guys in here who, I think just want some help to understand some parts of the hoax...
Anyways.. Just my two cents!
LOVE to ALL of you! bearhug
Post by: trublu on October 25, 2011, 04:35:38 PM
So what if not everyone 'gets it' immediately?
Aren't we all here to learn anyway? A simple explanation about the time being shown an reported as 12:21 would have been a lot simpler.
Just my opinion.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 25, 2011, 04:51:38 PM
TS will prove MJ is dead. I know it because she is very smart.
:cry:
It's impossible to prove a living man is dead. ;)
@mjfan7 - just wanted to say that i ♥your spritely confidence and positivity respect/
Thanks :mrgreen:
You guys may laugh but TS is pretty convincing to me with this proof errrr .
/overreacting/
Aww, Gina ! bearhug TS has soo many posts telling us Michael's alive. Don't let these few pitiful attempts to prove Michael dead get you down! ;) I think the only reason you're getting convinced is because you trust TS, but I'm sure if a nonbeliever walked in here saying the same things, you'd be fine. Michael's alive, dear. Just because Conrad cries doesn't mean anything :lol: :lol: I like what Souza said "Murray cried because he realized all his baby mommas would take the stand and he would be outed as a playah to the world!" lolol/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 25, 2011, 05:01:30 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 25, 2011, 06:39:19 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 25, 2011, 07:01:22 PM
What difference does it make if a witness say something different about the calling time? Geez! Guys, seriously! WTF?? We saw that it is 12:21 on the fire truck's screen, so who cares if it was made on 12:20 or 12:25??? And WHY? The clue was given with 12:21 and we SAW it literally on the screen. So that's it. The case is closed. Why need to dig it up and bring the case to TS' reliability after 2 years??? After all of the things TS showed and PROVED, what else do you want as a "solid" proof from him to become sure of his credibility? Everything is in front of your eyes, THOUSANDS of clues were given, what else do you want???
What's the difference? A very important one. To 12:21 911 call are tied a lot of calculations, which could fall right now and I am one of those who found a logic in these calculations. If a piece is wrong, the whole building can go down. So these falling down right now are important and I cannot pretend I didn't notice.
Nobody is here to debunk anyone. I, as probably others, ask when we do not understand or we find something off, like in the case with the time of the 911 call. I read again today what TS wrote about this, and as it is different from what we've been informed by the witnesses in court, I stated an opinion.
So, TS said:
QuoteThis explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
What I said was simply that these two versions do not match. I wasn't there, nobody from here was there, and as a person from inside (as TS is supposed, so far, to be) you know more than what's said in the media. So, you go straight ahead with a theory and with a long chain of calculations but what if they are proven wrong or if inconsistenes surface? Like here. Refuse or avoid an answer is weird and out of place at this stage, because a lot of us, even if many don't post anymore, want to find the truth of all this.
Anna, you are the one who constructed your own hoax building. If you built it strong enough, it wouldn't collapse. If you know what I'm saying ...
Post by: Adi on October 25, 2011, 07:59:58 PM
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture on the computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
Second: No where in this update does it mention that Alvarez was the caller at all...it just says "caller". Now you can ASSume it was Alvarez because we have heard the recording of the call, however since everything in this is an illusion/distraction/staged then who really knows.
Third: Yesterday after Cherilyn Lee's testimony when she was getting confused around the date March 9th (3/9) it reminded me of TS Update #4 and the 999 (three 9's) so I went back and re-read it. It's worthwhile re-reading all parts (a,b,c and d) again keeping in mind the context of the current trial. Part 4d is really interesting in terms of what is currently going on with TS trying to support the murder theory....I think he's just having a little "play" with us (in a good way of course)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7194.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7194.0.html)
And here are the links to the other parts of Update #4:
4A: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.0.html)
4B: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7064.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7064.0.html)
4C: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7124.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7124.0.html)
Post by: scorpionchik on October 25, 2011, 08:48:53 PM
It's funny to see how the TS debunkers all of a sudden pop up and claim (once again) that he is a fraud. Maybe not with so many words, but I can read between the lines.
The 911 call at 12:21 pm is not debunked at all, but am going to let you all figure it out on your own this time. Re-read TS' post about that (update 4C) and use your common sense and you will see what I mean. One hint: what time was reported in the media?
Exactly!
After two and a half years, some still have not learned anything.
I will debunk this in time, as always, if others don't figure it out first. But as always, I will give it some time and let others work on it.
bangbang your i
Oh really? Well maybe because some do not rely on data provided by media. Media is a prostitute..... of the truth, remember? Why should we trust that source and waste time to figure false things out? Where that 12.21 time came from? From media source we have searched, right? Whatever we have, it is never 100% accurate. there are at least 5 different types of ARs, DC, wills, AEG contract, ambulance photos with time display, etc. The only source I believe in what I hear from the person's mouth: Michael's BAM scene in TII, then family clues followed by books where Michael is dead. So, no one is a knower but TIME.
Post by: paula-c on October 25, 2011, 08:49:37 PM
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture of computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
Second: No where in this update does it mention that Alvarez was the caller at all...it just says "caller". Now you can ASSume it was Alvarez because we have heard the recording of the call, however since everything in this is an illusion/distraction/staged then who really knows.
Third: Yesterday after Cherilyn Lee's testimony when she was getting conused around the date March 9th (3/9) it reminded me of TS Update #4 and the 999 (three 9's) so I went back and re-read it. It's worthwhile re-reading all parts (a,b,c and d) again keeping in mind the context of the current trial. Part 4d is really interesting in terms of what is currently going on with TS trying to support the murder theory....I think he's just having a little "play" with us (in a good way of course)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7194.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7194.0.html)
And here are the links to the other parts of Update #4:
4A: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.0.html)
4B: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7064.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7064.0.html)
4C: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7124.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7124.0.html)
yes, I believe that it is necessary to revise this.. those who to be interested :mrgreen:
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 25, 2011, 09:45:15 PM
What difference does it make if a witness say something different about the calling time? Geez! Guys, seriously! WTF?? We saw that it is 12:21 on the fire truck's screen, so who cares if it was made on 12:20 or 12:25??? And WHY? The clue was given with 12:21 and we SAW it literally on the screen. So that's it. The case is closed. Why need to dig it up and bring the case to TS' reliability after 2 years??? After all of the things TS showed and PROVED, what else do you want as a "solid" proof from him to become sure of his credibility? Everything is in front of your eyes, THOUSANDS of clues were given, what else do you want??? What else do you need to be sure that Michael is alive? /pull hair/
I admire the patience of TS that he is still trying to explain himself and the things he had said 2 years ago. Unfortunately I lost my patience to give the weak ones hope every time they lose their faith, and to tell and explain everything we have found till today. I did it several several and several times and I feel myself tired to keep on explaining the same things. I wish I had some more patience to discuss the same issues but I don't. Even if I had the patience and more time to do it, I lost my hope in some of the believers that they will be seeing the truth and become a firm and strong believer, a knower maybe someday. I don't believe that they will make it before Michael comes back. So, I do not feel like explaining everything once and once more. Therefore I'm not joining these ridiculous "TS debunk this" " TS said this but it is this" kind of discussions. Everything is clear to me and they can be clear to you too. It's just in your hands and it is your choice.
End of rant.
The Sign, I trust you and I love you. Thank you a million times for everything you have been doing for us. Love and bearhug
I agree purelove, maybe some would like to have a straight answer by TS. SAYING YES MICHAEL IS ALIVE.. HERE IS THE PROOF.. unfortunetaly it does not work this way. Patience is a virtue. Everything in its due time.
Post by: bec on October 25, 2011, 10:57:12 PM
Why is he trying so hard to discourage us?
Why is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Are we just killing time here? Because it sure seems like that's what we are doing. Surely there's a better way to kill time then to emotionally destroy the people who have supported you for so long. I'm exhausted and my patience is slim. I care no further to sway people, to convince them, to help bolster their faith. People will either believe or not, nothing I can say or do or show n tell will change anyone's mind. They have to find it for themselves. Any effort to the contrary is a waste of time and emotional energy... both of which I have run short of.
Just sayin'.
Oly oly oxen free. The street lights came on.
Post by: rswilley2011 on October 25, 2011, 11:27:45 PM
We know the 911 call was placed, for hoax/numerology purposes, at 12:21. Even if it was made at 12:20, it was widely reported as being placed at 12:21 and we have the screen shot to back it up. If the screen shot and reports are false, then it was done to suit the hoax. If this was not a hoax, the time of the call would not be a deliberate timing, as it obviously is. It could also be the this hoax/sting court is trying to disprove the hoax (while proving it at the same time)- another test of faith, as it were.Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 (or correct me; it was 18 or 26, but anyway, within 12;20 still) but in TIAI update was stated that the phone call was pressed at 12:21:04 exactly, to be sure you have almost a whole minute to redial if the line is busy. From the media we all got the 12:21 but you would know, being in the inside, that you called at 12:20. That's what I say. It doesn't matter it was reported in media.
I will edit the post and copy-paste TS's words.
TS's words:QuoteFirst, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time.With most phones, you can preset a speed dial (such as 911) with one button; so it would only take a second or two to place the call. Then the 911 operator would answer immediately, as soon as the call comes through. So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.
This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier. If it had been a real emergency, obviously there would’ve been no hesitation or waiting until 12:21 to make the call; but since this was all planned, down to the minute, nobody was put in danger by waiting until 12:21 to place the 911 call.
However, it’s actually far more than one in a billion, once we calculate the odds that the 911 call was made immediately at 12:21—not 30 or 45 seconds later.
Interestingly enough, TS bringing up "30 to 45 seconds earlier" made me do some calculations.
12:21:04 minus 45 seconds is 12:20:19 (or 12:20:18 using inclusive reckoning). Maybe the testimony is just a red herring?
Post by: RK on October 26, 2011, 12:01:28 AM
Quote
Why is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 12:03:17 AM
But for what?
Are we of any importance to him?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 12:11:13 AM
I am not very familiar with the trials but if I were the judge I would strongly OBJECT to wasting everybody's time with so UNRELEVANT discussions.
To me looks like both the prosecution and the defense score very little points in regard to the subject of the trial, this being to determine if Conrad Murray is guilty for involuntarly manslaughter.
For example last evening. They questiond Randy Phillips about the press conf, the preparations for the shows etc., so many things with no relevance in proving anything.
Why is this happening?
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
Sometimes I just feel he might be right.
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 26, 2011, 12:53:13 AM
For the record: I did not call anyone stupid, nor did I address anyone in particular. Those who I did address know who they are and if you think you are not a TS debunker, then there is no need to feel addressed.
Thank you Souza for your reply,
I know you didn't call me stupid, that's not what i meant, i meant you can call me even stupid if you want, but i'm not a TS debunker.
(i hope i make myself clear on this one).
I love reading TS posts, and updates, and the posts of other members as well.
i believed in TS a long time ago.
Post by: Grace on October 26, 2011, 01:10:29 AM
QuoteWhy is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
RK, no deviation.
Audition time is not over yet. Michael works only with the best.
He cannot afford any other level since he must be able to fully (150%) rely on what his team is doing will be correct and exactly what he wants.
This disappearance is rehearsal only for the world outside.
There will be times when all we've learned in these years of trying the spin will be of essential and vital value and desperately needed. Reality is much more complex and cruel at times than we might imagine.
Michael needs the strong at heart for his army's tasks in the world that are really challenging.
That's why this training is so tough.
Education time is not over yet. Michael wants us to discover our talents.
"We wanna show them talent that they've never seen before."
So let's try the difficult over and over again and we will be amazed in retrospective about what WE were capable of that we never imagined before.
That's why we are exercising so much.
Discovery time is not over yet. Michael wants to keep us hooked.
If it were easy, we would lose interest, right?
If we come back to our love inside of us, back to the positive energy inside of us, if we allow our good inside to awaken and to LIVE, EVERYTHING is possible for the better.
A brain is useful but without a heart it is nothing.
That's why we are thrown back on ourselves so often.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related)
It is all about L.O.V.E.
Blessings and much love to everybody.
You are all needed, each one of you, in the strongest belief and faith and love possible and who ever gets into swaggering - watch Elvis' and Michael's last videos and see how they were swaggering before reaching out and just doing it.
bearhug
SimPatty, could you pls post the vids of Elvis' last concert and how he came in backstage drinking his coke and Michael's walking into O2 conference since I have a schedule right now?
Thank you so much!
Post by: bec on October 26, 2011, 01:14:08 AM
QuoteWhy is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
No I think you're right on topic, RK. Great post.
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 26, 2011, 01:20:55 AM
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
- he's non-believer, right?
The bizarre trial like this is even more important for "normal" people
who believe MJ would never pull off a hoax. This shows what happened to
Justice system and obviously something has to be done about it, talk
about wake-up call! What if next time your family will need justice to be done?
It's not about LA only I'm sure, the whole system is corrupt and looks
like a bad joke. And now it's being televised for everyone to see. Nothing
about MJ is "whatever, not my business" and "normal" people should stop
thinking this way. Everything about MJ is exposing the system. So many wrong things
being exposed already, especially from non-believers point of view it must be so!
Post by: bec on October 26, 2011, 01:29:18 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 02:19:12 AM
The 911 call was made at 12:20 -12:21 and they said Murray wasted aprox. 20 minutes by not calling 911 right away, so he discovered Michael was not breathing at aprox. 12 a clock right?
So how could Randy knew Michael had trouble breathing at 10:30 - 11 a'clock?
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 02:24:18 AM
I'm gonna tell him this penguin/!!
ps: he's the funniest man I've ever met, well I never met MJ, maybe he's funnier suspicious//.
Post by: _Anna_ on October 26, 2011, 02:52:31 AM
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture on the computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
TS said also this and I still don't understand, because I clearily see a different timeline.
So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when the 911 operator would receive the call.This does not mean that the exact second was planned; it would be difficult to get the call through on a specific second. However, the exact minute was planned; and as soon as the planned minute arrived, the call was placed. This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier.
This is what I don't understand. He deffinitelly said that the person who called obviously waited until 12:21 and he did not make the call earlier - not 12:20:18, no 12:20:46, but 12:21 and then pressed the call button. I'm not bashing nor anything, I simply want to understand because for me this doesn't look right
Post by: curls on October 26, 2011, 03:57:50 AM
Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!
So, what's puzzling me is this:
With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21
It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!
It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!
Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?
/pull hair/
On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!
Post by: Sarahli on October 26, 2011, 07:20:46 AM
Post by: suspicious mind on October 26, 2011, 07:47:32 AM
I wasn't going to add any more to this discussion, but I will, because this 12:20 thing is still puzzling me. I'm certainly not TS bashing, I simply want to dissect it, as he has indeed always urged us to do. If the 12:21 thing is solid then no-one should have anything to fear, or get irritated by others questioning how this new info fits in.it has always intrigued me how this subject seems to float into almost every statement some of these people make. why? what is the purpose? so much overkill in this area.
Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!
So, what's puzzling me is this:
With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21
It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!
It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!
Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?
/pull hair/
On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!
Post by: Shining light on October 26, 2011, 08:15:12 AM
I was also thinking that someone else was involved in this 911 call because it's a fake emergency, and in order to avoid problems it mustn't be just a normal call made by Alvarez. We already said in the previous levels that some key people in the LAFD are involved. The document presented and showing the supposed path of this call makes it even more of a wonder that they received it at exactly 12:21. pm. smiley_spider Something happened between 12:20:50 and 12:21:03. suspicious// LOL it's a bumpy 911 call trajectory.All it shows is contradictions left and right which to me only screams even more to everyone that something just ain't right. Maybe it is just there are two sides pulling for there own truth to come out one is the Illuminati version which is trying to block mjs version of the story. But you cant block the truth forever. There has been a lot of contradictions through out this whole 2 1/2 years why would it stop now? We have heard it many times during these years "The truth will prevail!".
Post by: hesouttamylife on October 26, 2011, 09:16:11 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 26, 2011, 09:18:32 AM
QuoteWhy is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done, one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes. If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument. I apologize for my digression from topic.
RK, no deviation.
Audition time is not over yet. Michael works only with the best.
He cannot afford any other level since he must be able to fully (150%) rely on what his team is doing will be correct and exactly what he wants.
This disappearance is rehearsal only for the world outside.
There will be times when all we've learned in these years of trying the spin will be of essential and vital value and desperately needed. Reality is much more complex and cruel at times than we might imagine.
Michael needs the strong at heart for his army's tasks in the world that are really challenging.
That's why this training is so tough.
Education time is not over yet. Michael wants us to discover our talents.
"We wanna show them talent that they've never seen before."
So let's try the difficult over and over again and we will be amazed in retrospective about what WE were capable of that we never imagined before.
That's why we are exercising so much.
Discovery time is not over yet. Michael wants to keep us hooked.
If it were easy, we would lose interest, right?
If we come back to our love inside of us, back to the positive energy inside of us, if we allow our good inside to awaken and to LIVE, EVERYTHING is possible for the better.
A brain is useful but without a heart it is nothing.
That's why we are thrown back on ourselves so often.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related)
It is all about L.O.V.E.
Blessings and much love to everybody.
You are all needed, each one of you, in the strongest belief and faith and love possible and who ever gets into swaggering - watch Elvis' and Michael's last videos and see how they were swaggering before reaching out and just doing it.
bearhug
SimPatty, could you pls post the vids of Elvis' last concert and how he came in backstage drinking his coke and Michael's walking into O2 conference since I have a schedule right now?
Thank you so much!
RK and Grace...........
This is an amazing post from you guys.......thank you so much! It puts into words so much of what I feel about it all. We can not live by calculations and thoughts alone, we can not sustain our beLIEf on just mere clues......we need that soul, that nudge of faith, the power of trusting your own heart is the core of true knowledge (for me, anyways). We can calculate times, add letters, watch videos all day long. However, if at the end of the day we do not have our hearts in line with love and understanding, we have gained nothing and will fall. Our faith will be rattled, our beLIEf shaken. The end of the hoax will just be the beginning for most.....the dawn of a new day.
-Audition
-Education
-Discovery
Brilliant framework, Grace. It's so true these words you wrote. We have all the tools we need inside of us, if we only learn to use them correctly. So much of life does not make sense. We question why things are all the time...it's how we are wired. However, it's only when the mind is guided by the heart that true greatness happens within a person's soul. A heart guided by the mind will be forever be in a mindless loop of questioning.
-Faith
-Hope
-Love
and the greatest of these is indeed love.
RK said:
"Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates."
Again...brilliant, wise words. For all the differing faiths of the world: Be still and know, just know. It will be then your mind will rest, your spirit will soar and you will have peace. Just know.
Thank you again to you both.....you are a blessing upon this forum.
Have a most beautiful day!
LOVE & Blessings
PS> James Brown is and always will be sheer genius with his soul, his music and his love for people...thank you for showing us such an amazing pairing. Pavarotti and James Brown....absolutely brilliant!
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 26, 2011, 09:45:12 AM
Here is the complete call:
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I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
Post by: paula-c on October 26, 2011, 10:17:23 AM
I just want to say this trial so far looks more like a joke than a real trial.
I am not very familiar with the trials but if I were the judge I would strongly OBJECT to wasting everybody's time with so UNRELEVANT discussions.
To me looks like both the prosecution and the defense score very little points in regard to the subject of the trial, this being to determine if Conrad Murray is guilty for involuntarly manslaughter.
For example last evening. They questiond Randy Phillips about the press conf, the preparations for the shows etc., so many things with no relevance in proving anything.
Why is this happening?
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
Sometimes I just feel he might be right.
I think that the statement by Phillips is important and is not to help the defence of Murray, the said that Michael was confident Murray and he had no reservations about Murray after meeting him. Your comments about Michael were personal.He described Michael as a great father and seemed to want everyone to know that Michael called for in the contracts was to meet the needs of their children, not by a desire to extravagance. In the meeting room of the Beverly Hills hotel, where both he and Michael discusses what he had lived and what their children had been supporting. Reading between the lines, I can not see this meeting as a meeting of the artist and Phillips after the meeting, I knew at least a portion to what Michael had had to endure, and I was surprised that someone like him admit that he cried. As he left the country in 2005, which was ill but not physically and tired of running and hiding, tired of having to fear exit through the door and go to a store or watch a movie on television with the risk that their children could be exposed to what they were saying about her father. I think this statement says a lot.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 26, 2011, 10:18:34 AM
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around! You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers.
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure. Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there. Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith. I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back. I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front. It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.
EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on October 26, 2011, 10:19:08 AM
Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!
So, what's puzzling me is this:
With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21
It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!
It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!
Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?
/pull hair/
On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!
Bingo.
It could be assumed that Alvarez was the caller, but it would be just that, an assumption. The full version of the 911 call tape reveals that there was a third party on that call, and as Souza said, this third party was from the LAPD, a key person in a key position?
Post by: wishingstar on October 26, 2011, 10:42:50 AM
@Souza...excellent, excellent post. Hopefully that will ease some concern/confusion.
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around! You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers.
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure. Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there. Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith. I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back. I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front. It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.
EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
/bravo/
Amazing tie to Michael's words....he took it to the next level. It's up to us now....absolutely brilliant.
I love Indiana Jones..........this part in particular has always given me the highest degree of goosebumps possible : )
Leap of faith....we are walking across this hoax like a cavern of death. It doesn't matter to 99% of the world if you fall.....but, it matters to Michael. It's always mattered to Michael....what more could he have given? What more could he have done? How could he have tried to show people love, without opening his heart so much? He said he wanted to be Jesus-like on Oprah. I believe we have all seen and been witness to the greatest example of love in our personal lifetime.
What a great video clip to tie that together....thank you for posting it!
Blessings to you always.......
LOVE
Post by: BeTheChange on October 26, 2011, 10:47:24 AM
Not sure if any of you are watching HLN but La Toya just arrived at court and Jane asked her what she'd say to the Murray 'supporters' who say he's a nice guy. La Toya replied by saying that everything is an ILLUSION...that people should watch The Illusionist and they should read between the lines.
Basically...she just threw us another 'stone' to step on in that leap of faith. Thanks La Toya bearhug
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on October 26, 2011, 10:50:01 AM
Neato. Thanks for posting the clip, BeTheChange bearhug
Ps. I love Indiana Jones too!
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 11:01:31 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 26, 2011, 11:14:00 AM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: _Anna_ on October 26, 2011, 12:29:09 PM
A few ideas that i read so far:
-Leopold finds out from Uhl, who was following the couple, that Sophie has met with Eisenheim. While drunk, Leopold confronts Sophie and accuses her of being a whore. She tells him that she will not marry him or have anything to do with his plan. When she attempts to leave, he appears to murder her in the stables with a sword cut across her neck. Unfortunately, Leopold's royal status makes any accusations against him unthinkable, despite an existing belief among the people that Leopold has murdered a woman in the past. As Eisenheim plunges into despair and the citizens of Vienna begin to suspect Leopold of Sophie's murder, Uhl observes Eisenheim's actions more closely on behalf of Leopold.
-In the next scene, Uhl is shown leaving the Imperial Palace. After he takes a few steps, a boy (Elias Bauer) runs up to hand him a folio labeled "Orange Tree." This time, the "Orange Tree" folio is filled with plans detailing a geared mechanism to make the tree "grow". Uhl demands to know where the child obtained the folio; the child reveals that Eisenheim had given it to him. Uhl spots Eisenheim wearing a disguise and follows him to the train station. After the chase, a montage shows Uhl piecing together how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed the Crown Prince. And while one may think that Uhl would be enraged at Eisenheim, he is actually very much amused. Meanwhile, Eisenheim is seen walking up to a house in the country where Sophie is waiting for him.
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 26, 2011, 12:37:18 PM
HLN just said that "THIS COULD ALL REALLY TURN OUT TO BE A CONSPIRACY AFTER ALL"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
before latoya said "everything is an illusion" ;)
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 26, 2011, 12:38:58 PM
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Yes from what I recall Sophie was fine at the end.
Did LaToya actually say this?? About Illusionist?
Post by: _Anna_ on October 26, 2011, 12:39:52 PM
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Yes from what I recall Sophie was fine at the end.
Did LaToya actually say this?? About Illusionist?
Watch this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ&feature=feedu[/youtube]
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 12:42:02 PM
Yesterday, she tweeted to not believe everything in court.
HLN today JVM said "wow, maybe this will REALLY turn out to be a conspiracy after all".
Some great hints today I'd say :)
Post by: Mish1981 on October 26, 2011, 12:42:33 PM
Guys, has any of you seen The Illusionist? I didn't, so I need to digg into the plot more now.
A few ideas that i read so far:
-Leopold finds out from Uhl, who was following the couple, that Sophie has met with Eisenheim. While drunk, Leopold confronts Sophie and accuses her of being a whore. She tells him that she will not marry him or have anything to do with his plan. When she attempts to leave, he appears to murder her in the stables with a sword cut across her neck. Unfortunately, Leopold's royal status makes any accusations against him unthinkable, despite an existing belief among the people that Leopold has murdered a woman in the past. As Eisenheim plunges into despair and the citizens of Vienna begin to suspect Leopold of Sophie's murder, Uhl observes Eisenheim's actions more closely on behalf of Leopold.
-In the next scene, Uhl is shown leaving the Imperial Palace. After he takes a few steps, a boy (Elias Bauer) runs up to hand him a folio labeled "Orange Tree." This time, the "Orange Tree" folio is filled with plans detailing a geared mechanism to make the tree "grow". Uhl demands to know where the child obtained the folio; the child reveals that Eisenheim had given it to him. Uhl spots Eisenheim wearing a disguise and follows him to the train station. After the chase, a montage shows Uhl piecing together how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed the Crown Prince. And while one may think that Uhl would be enraged at Eisenheim, he is actually very much amused. Meanwhile, Eisenheim is seen walking up to a house in the country where Sophie is waiting for him.
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
That is exactly how the movie goes. In the end when Uhl is questioning Eisenheim because (during the entire movie he is trying to show that Eisenheim is a fraud with no luck), anyway, he goes back to everything that happened and realizes how it happened. By the time he is done thinking and putting all of the pieces together Eisenheim has vanished. So in the end he does realize that Sophie is alive and that it was another illusion done by Eisenheim.
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 26, 2011, 12:43:03 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 12:47:29 PM
That's what I would expect. The dramatic effects shouldn't count, not for the prosecution and not for the defense.
Post by: trublu on October 26, 2011, 12:54:34 PM
Post by: MissG on October 26, 2011, 12:56:08 PM
As I understand after listening the different scenarios about the call, it came to mind that the call was made "on time" but was "received" or answered much later leading to a dangerous outcome. This would mean that the system is not efficient. We are talking about an emergency here. It can happen to anybody in need of an ambulance or urgent medical assistance.
The call follows a protocol of being forwarded accordingly and, it has not been the 1st time I read about non efficient personnel asking the wrong questions delaying the medical assistance.
A call could have been made "on time" but answered or handled with a mortal delay.
On another note, there are many layers in the trial but all of them points towards one end---> negligence, abandonment and lack of concern and care but not especially from Murray to Michael but from everyone towards MJ, from AEG to workers.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 26, 2011, 12:58:02 PM
Quote
The script was based loosely on "Eisenheim the Illusionist", a short story by Steven Millhauser from Millhauser's 1990 collection The Barnum Museum.
(http://jordanhalsey.com/images/portfolio/3d/stimulated/m_jackson/this_is_it/lightman/mj_lightman_lr_001.jpg)
(http://www.posters555.com/pictures/The-Illusionist-(2006)-picture-MOV_8e22892c_b.jpg)
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 12:58:36 PM
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
Post by: Love4Michael on October 26, 2011, 01:00:22 PM
"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48
Post by: Mish1981 on October 26, 2011, 01:02:06 PM
I do have some questions about The Illusionists though.
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
According to IMBD it was released in 2006 and I know I watched it before 6/25/09.
Post by: _Anna_ on October 26, 2011, 01:03:57 PM
I do have some questions about The Illusionists though.
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
They are two movies. One is from 2006 and another one from 2010 (this is a french movie) which is an animated one and this one is a comedy as far as I understand, and it's really not very complex in subject. I suppose she's talking about the 2006 version which is complex and which is about death and the illusion of a staged death. I doubt she reffered to the animated movie from 2010, as it is really not about anything complex or related to what we live now.
The one from 2010 is more like a movie for teens, and it doesn't even have murder/death as a subject. Only romances and things like that, one is in love with another, a magician who fails, etc.
The Illusionist from 2006, which I knew but didn't watch, it's a very complex movie, and I've heard about it and if you read the synopsis you'll see what I mean. It's about illusions, a staged death and the murdered woman in the end appears alive safe and sound. I haven't seen the movie, but I read about it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443543/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443543/)
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 26, 2011, 01:07:09 PM
Short day today, so we have Dr Robert Waldman (addiction expert) and Dr White left...oh how funny would it be if Walgren confronted White about calling him a scumbag....lol, he is prob not allowed to do that, but it would be interesting, nonetheless...at least he could ask 'Is it true you called me a scumbag the other day' even if the judge does get upset...haha
Also does anyone know why the Judge had so many sidebars, it was like after every witness?...and how about Murray's BFF (as Bec put it) giving him a kiss and a hug, never seen that done before...and on a side note Murray should of got better witnesses, because the first two gave terrible answers, especially on the last question they got tricked when Walgren said; 'would you still testify today if Murray had been negligent', or something along those lines, but I have to say that little lady, Ruby was a really good witness...talk about attitude...she's so tiny and cute geek/
Post by: MissG on October 26, 2011, 01:09:44 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 01:10:39 PM
I do have some questions about The Illusionists though.
One, is...when was this movie made, so Michael could've related to it. Or was it made to pattern Michael's hoax?
It was released Dec. 2010, well after the hoax began, so strange...
Two, is this a remake?????
It is released by SONY PICTURES CLASSICS. Classics!!! WHAT??
They just said Randy and Janet were "charmed" by Ruby. Smiled at her throughout. Said "she's sweet"!!! WHAT???
They are two movies. One is from 2006 and another one from 2010 (this is a french movie) which is an animated one and this one is a comedy as far as I understand, and it's really not very complex in subject. I suppose she's talking about the 2006 version which is complex and which is about death and the illusion of a staged death. I doubt she reffered to the animated movie from 2010, as it is really not about anything complex or related to what we live now.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443543/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443543/)
Correct. I do see there are others. I also found this... which also makes me think of Michael, although I think the 2006 movie fits this hoax to a T.
http://theillusionists.org/?page_id=81http:// (http://theillusionists.org/?page_id=81http://)
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 26, 2011, 01:22:55 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on October 26, 2011, 01:27:41 PM
If TS wants to give his explanation on this too, I will watch also. We can only assume how it went and why it was 12:20 or who else was involved or not. To me it was something that shook the whole building.
Post by: paula-c on October 26, 2011, 01:37:46 PM
Just my 2 cents regarding the call and timing.
As I understand after listening the different scenarios about the call, it came to mind that the call was made "on time" but was "received" or answered much later leading to a dangerous outcome. This would mean that the system is not efficient. We are talking about an emergency here. It can happen to anybody in need of an ambulance or urgent medical assistance.
The call follows a protocol of being forwarded accordingly and, it has not been the 1st time I read about non efficient personnel asking the wrong questions delaying the medical assistance.
A call could have been made "on time" but answered or handled with a mortal delay.
On another note, there are many layers in the trial but all of them points towards one end---> negligence, abandonment and lack of concern and care but not especially from Murray to Michael but from everyone towards MJ, from AEG to workers.
Testimony of Donna Norris
She speaks of the 911 call.
12: 20: 18 Hour that 911 was called. 12: 20: 21 Begins to sound 12: 20: 26 Call is taken 12: 20: 50 The call is transferred 12: 21: 03 Police Department dispatcher hangs. 12: 21: 04 911 System launches call for proposals
The duration of the call in the Police Department was 46 seconds
Very efficient MissG :lol: BRAVO TS /bravo/
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 26, 2011, 01:40:43 PM
I just want to say this trial so far looks more like a joke than a real trial.
I am not very familiar with the trials but if I were the judge I would strongly OBJECT to wasting everybody's time with so UNRELEVANT discussions.
To me looks like both the prosecution and the defense score very little points in regard to the subject of the trial, this being to determine if Conrad Murray is guilty for involuntarly manslaughter.
For example last evening. They questiond Randy Phillips about the press conf, the preparations for the shows etc., so many things with no relevance in proving anything.
Why is this happening?
My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".
Sometimes I just feel he might be right.
My husband says the same thing. That we are wasting our time, MJ is dead. Even if he is alive, he'll never ever come back. If he is alive, why would he want to come back after he was treated. Just let him go!
But I have unshakeable faith.
We are being tested, yes. But its all for love (how many times have you heard that line ;) ).
Can't you feel how close we are. It seems the ones who are hardly able to watch the trial have so many doubts. Its only because you keep yourselves in the dark. No one else can hold your hand and show you anything.
Doubting is only human, but doubting with no reason why is so sad.
Maybe its a language barrier, maybe it is a terrible attention span. Maybe you haven't done enough research. Maybe the glorious truth falls on deaf ears for some of you.
Bec and Purelove, my feelings are mutual.
This close to the end of the hoax (imo), and people are jumping ship.
Sad, really.
Post by: scorpionchik on October 26, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.
Here is the complete call:
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9 (http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9)"></iframe>
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news)" target="_blank">Conrad Murray Trial: 911 call played in court door <a href=";http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews (http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews)" target="_blank">itnnews
I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone vompany stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
because call was monitored and fixed on the report, that's how she knows it lasted 45 sec.
What fishy in this call is that when 911 call is made, the very first person indeed asks 'what is your emergency' to connect with the right department. In this case she only gets the address and connects with LAFD of Bel Air. It can be interpreted in different ways as everything else:
1. she was not diligent enought to ask all questions required;
2. It was a part of murder plan;
3. It was a part of hoax plan.
What is the big deal with 12.21 timing anyway? Something will happen in December 21st? What year?
When to Call 911
911 is dedicated to calls for emergency aid and crimes in progress such as imminent threat to life, bodily injury, or major property damage or loss. A home burglary in progress, person with a gun, traffic accident, fires or calls for paramedic services are all examples of emergencies.
When Reporting an Emergency:
Give the location of the emergency. Locations must always be verified.
Remain calm and speak slowly and clearly while explaining the type of emergency you are reporting.
The dispatcher will ask you questions concerning the type of emergency you are reporting. The answers you provide will be relayed to responding emergency personnel, usually by another dispatcher at a different terminal. Therefore, stay on the line while the dispatcher processes your call. You may need to provide additional information or receive instructions from the dispatcher.
The dispatcher will request your name and location. You do not have to identify yourself when you are reporting a crime, unless you are the victim of the crime.
Calling 911 from a Cell Phone
Wireless providers now offer direct 911 service and proximity location information to the Beverly Hills Communications Bureau. This technology allows cellular 911 calls to receive faster response from the City's Police and Fire Departments.
In the past, wireless 911 calls were received by the California Highway Patrol, whose operators re-directed emergency calls to the appropriate law enforcement agency, sometimes resulting in substantial delays. Dispatchers, who had no way of knowing where a cellular call had been placed, had to rely solely upon information provided by the caller. This inability to track locations led the Federal Communications Commission to direct wireless carriers nationwide to develop a means to identify the location and phone number of wireless 911 callers.
This location verification system has some weaknesses as some older cell phones are not location-equipped and if the caller hangs up prematurely, the dispatcher may be unable to approximate the location. In addition to outdated equipment, cell phone locations are not as specific as the addresses which are obtained from a landline call. Finally, since cell sites often cross city lines and jurisdictions, callers may be directed to an agency other than Beverly Hills. Callers are advised to always know and be able to communicate their location to an emergency operator.
In an emergency, the public can also reach the Beverly Hills dispatch center by calling (310) 550-4951 from their cellular phone.
http://www.beverlyhills.org/services/police/contact.asp (http://www.beverlyhills.org/services/police/contact.asp)
Post by: paula-c on October 26, 2011, 01:55:23 PM
@paula - maybe I* am wrong but from my point of view a trial has to have "technical" proofs.
That's what I would expect. The dramatic effects shouldn't count, not for the prosecution and not for the defense.
Gina depends how you look, if we got here after seeing more than 2 years the amount of contradiction, that a trial would have to be the exception?
Post by: SimPattyK on October 26, 2011, 02:04:52 PM
This is for LaToya : (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/VAAFF2%7E1.GIF)
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 02:34:02 PM
For the record: I did not call anyone stupid, nor did I address anyone in particular. Those who I did address know who they are and if you think you are not a TS debunker, then there is no need to feel addressed.
Thank you Souza for your reply,
I know you didn't call me stupid, that's not what i meant, i meant you can call me even stupid if you want, but i'm not a TS debunker.
(i hope i make myself clear on this one).
I love reading TS posts, and updates, and the posts of other members as well.
i believed in TS a long time ago.
Keep the FAITH :)
There are a LOT of us here for the family and love.
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on October 26, 2011, 02:49:53 PM
For the record: I did not call anyone stupid, nor did I address anyone in particular. Those who I did address know who they are and if you think you are not a TS debunker, then there is no need to feel addressed.
Thank you Souza for your reply,
I know you didn't call me stupid, that's not what i meant, i meant you can call me even stupid if you want, but i'm not a TS debunker.
(i hope i make myself clear on this one).
I love reading TS posts, and updates, and the posts of other members as well.
i believed in TS a long time ago.
Keep the FAITH :)
There are a LOT of us here for the family and love.
Thank you Ford bearhug, and believe me, i will. ;))
Post by: monstertooty on October 26, 2011, 02:52:09 PM
BAM, THE RETURN, RESSURECTION...whatever you want to call it, is difficult to believe in when you refuse to change your way of thinking and that is completely understandable. All I know is that this has been one hell of a ride that I am thankful to have been awake enough to get on.
We are all going to come together one way or another and I believe the process starts NOW.... L.O.V.E.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 26, 2011, 03:14:05 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaG9SDxwPBg
[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: MJonmind on October 26, 2011, 03:24:18 PM
hesouttamylife
Quote
Is there anyway to check to see if two 911 calls were made on that day ; one at around 10:30 and then the famous one?
There were from the beginning, 2-- 911 calls made, 2 versions, just like Ben's "and the other day". Movie making on the set.
Grace
Quote
Audition time is not over yet. Michael works only with the best.
He cannot afford any other level since he must be able to fully (150%) rely on what his team is doing will be correct and exactly what he wants.
This disappearance is rehearsal only for the world outside.
There will be times when all we've learned in these years of trying the spin will be of essential and vital value and desperately needed. Reality is much more complex and cruel at times than we might imagine.
Michael needs the strong at heart for his army's tasks in the world that are really challenging.
That's why this training is so tough Education time is not over yet. Michael wants us to discover our talents.
"We wanna show them talent that they've never seen before."
So let's try the difficult over and over again and we will be amazed in retrospective about what WE were capable of that we never imagined before.
That's why we are exercising so much.
Discovery time is not over yet. Michael wants to keep us hooked.
If it were easy, we would lose interest, right?
If we come back to our love inside of us, back to the positive energy inside of us, if we allow our good inside to awaken and to LIVE, EVERYTHING is possible for the better.
A brain is useful but without a heart it is nothing.
That's why we are thrown back on ourselves so often .
(Thanks for posting the super P & JB video—loved it!)
Agreed, MJ has to be able to 150% rely upon his team, us included, and at this point it seems even TS is saying to us that we should be solid in our faith and hoax understanding now, to be able to debunk all naysayers. ‘We’re just another part of him’, here. He loves us and we love him, and he’s counting on us. Let’s move like a well-oiled machine. Gina, get off that fence, and tell your funny hubby what’s what and that’s that, cause this show is moving forward. respect/ Mine is always telling me MJ's d ead, but I don't ca re, still love my man though, but he just doesn't know what we have come to find out here in 2 years. :D
Souza
Quote
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
There’s been so many phone numbers shown publicly on trial exhibits, makes one wonder how blurred are the lines between reality and staging.
BeTheChange
I love that Indy scene! Pretty sure I've taken that step a long time ago! afraid/
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 03:37:09 PM
Which I thought was quite funny....BARNUM, which we know is "the Greatest Show on Earth" :)
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Barnum_Museum (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Barnum_Museum)
Post by: jono on October 26, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.
Here is the complete call:
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9 (http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9)"></iframe>
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news)" target="_blank">Conrad Murray Trial: 911 call played in court door <a href=";http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews (http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews)" target="_blank">itnnews
I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
Hey Souza!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your input on this! bearhug
respect/
Post by: PureLove on October 26, 2011, 03:58:47 PM
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)
(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
Post by: SimPattyK on October 26, 2011, 04:20:07 PM
This is for LaToya : (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/VAAFF2%7E1.GIF)
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes.(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Boissons/0014.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/youpi-12.gif) (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Boissons/0014.gif)
[. . . . ]?
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Boissons/lait.gif) ((---- (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/moqueur2.gif) This is MILK for real ! loll :lol: So.... t'chin t'chin to the hoax-beLIEvers ! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Boissons/lait.gif) - This should be our official party-DRINK ;)
(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/yahoo-supercontent.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/U_JUMP%7E1.GIF)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/yahoo-supercontent.gif)
Post by: wishingstar on October 26, 2011, 04:31:36 PM
Blessings....what an amazing day.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 04:35:52 PM
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes. I'm not saying let's forget about everything and have fun all the time but we need to have fun too sometimes. I want every each of you to be happy! We deserve it! And the clue Latoya gave is amazing, so let's enjoy it for a moment, shall we?
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)
(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
I KNOW!! I couldn't BELIEVE it when I heard. I was on chat and was shaking....the family on there calmed me down. It's just so exciting. What a clear clue. I rushed to post it, but someone got here first...ah well,...lol...I think Michael is starting to awaken the rest of the world little by little to the hoax. Most things to us we say are simply just unrealistic...and even the one media source covering it says how it's not like other trials and wondering about conspiracy..but now...perhaps the unbelievers will say...WOW...what movie is she talking about, watch it and BELIEVE too :)
Post by: Andrea on October 26, 2011, 04:57:18 PM
And just think - once the trial is over, Michael could come back at any time! And he will. penguin/
Post by: curls on October 26, 2011, 05:26:22 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on October 26, 2011, 05:54:35 PM
Michael, did you get our chat and send a little bird to ABC to get a reporter over to the World news report???
/toldya/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 26, 2011, 06:08:25 PM
Dr. Murray cried in court. So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.I love your sarcastic sense of humor. I get the jokes. rr/ :lol:
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Finally, there is a thread with this question in the title: "Did the ILLUMINATI have something to do with Michael Jackson's death?????"
SpokenTruth answered the question very clearly: "Yes, they killed him."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20766.msg361084.html#msg361084
Now that is unmistakable clear. Surely, with a username like SpokenTRUTH, the answer given could not possibly be anything other than true, right??? suspicious// smiley_spider suspicious//
This proves that the Illuminati had the seal with 32 stars planned for court a year ago {see my last post on this, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365475.html#msg365475}; and it also shows that they had enough control at Sony to put it on the album artwork. Scared yet? afraid/
This text below is from an excerpt of Jermaine's book You Are Not Alone.Quotehttp://www.scribd.com/doc/64810485/You-Are-Not-Alone-ExcerptWhich means NO ONE could have known his plans and NO ONE could execute them except MJ himself.
From the eighties, nobody knew about a lot of what he created until its execution, but the idea or concept was written down somewhere he could see it daily, or recited into a voice recorder as a visualisation he could see or hear.
He didn’t share ideas because he didn’t want anyone to interfere; he relied on mental strength for his focus. Think it, see it, believe it, make it happen.
The 32 stars in the seal proves that the court is in on the murder plot (more details on that shortly). You see, if they ever get busted for being an accomplice in a murder conspiracy, all they have to do is show the 32 stars and say: you can't get the court in trouble, because it wasn't official court anyway! /bravo/
Quote
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.The 32 stars in the seal would not get them out of trouble either by saying it was all for a movie. ;)
Quote
For those who want, you can also use this thread to guess the subject and/or timing of level 7.
Quote
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending onThis is not really a guess but more like an awareness of the milestones and 2 have yet to pass. 11-11-11 is coming up soon and I highly doubt Bamsday and/or level 7 is happening then, it is to soon. The court case isn't even done yet. The other date is farther away and even though I doubt that will be Bamsday and/or level 7, I do find it interesting and relevant because you made mention of it. So it says to me that we will at least have to make it to 12-12-12. Whatever happens I got a hand, finger and toe holding on to the end. respect/9-9-09,10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 26, 2011, 06:32:28 PM
I think he already gave away that he will post level 7 this upcoming Friday. Probably to let us guess about the verdict or something, while he is laying back, lurking and eating popcorn.
About MJ not sharing his plan, that is probably why Pastor wants to 'see counsel' that much. They might get pieces of the script/story in that room. Could also explain Pastor's frustrated face. I remember an article on TMZ: Jackson's Demanding Personality On Trial (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-defense-coca-cole-caffeine-addiction/#.TqiXpt7z2so) lolol/ lolol/
Funny how they changed that from Coca Cola to Red Bull by the way. New sponsor?
Post by: paula-c on October 26, 2011, 06:51:33 PM
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes. I'm not saying let's forget about everything and have fun all the time but we need to have fun too sometimes. I want every each of you to be happy! We deserve it! And the clue Latoya gave is amazing, so let's enjoy it for a moment, shall we?
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/p/party_time-2291.gif)
(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/cheers-2286.gif)
(http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0023.gif)
Where it is this party PureLove :?: beerchug :lol:
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 26, 2011, 06:54:26 PM
@Souza...excellent, excellent post. Hopefully that will ease some concern/confusion.
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around! You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers.
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure. Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there. Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith. I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back. I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front. It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.
EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
/bravo/
Amazing tie to Michael's words....he took it to the next level. It's up to us now....absolutely brilliant.
I love Indiana Jones..........this part in particular has always given me the highest degree of goosebumps possible : )
Leap of faith....we are walking across this hoax like a cavern of death. It doesn't matter to 99% of the world if you fall.....but, it matters to Michael. It's always mattered to Michael....what more could he have given? What more could he have done? How could he have tried to show people love, without opening his heart so much? He said he wanted to be Jesus-like on Oprah. I believe we have all seen and been witness to the greatest example of love in our personal lifetime.
What a great video clip to tie that together....thank you for posting it!
Blessings to you always.......
LOVE
I couldn't agree more! /bravo/ bearhug
These posts were FANTASTIC. I LOVE this scene in Indiana Jones. Well done. respect/ we must Keep the Faith; as LaToya said, its all an Illusion. Love to all.
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 26, 2011, 06:58:26 PM
Can anyone confirm that Sophie was supposedly murdered but in fact it was all an illusion and she is really alive in the end? And the plan is revealed?
Yes from what I recall Sophie was fine at the end.
Did LaToya actually say this?? About Illusionist?
Watch this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ&feature=feedu[/youtube]
An Excellent movie (The Illusionist) and video Anna; I just saw this today. /woohoo/
And Let me add this from TS:
4-42. Guilty Until Acquitted, Still Guilty After Acquitted
So much for “innocent until proven guilty”; Conrad Murray is being charged as an intentional murderer, not by the court but by the public! Yes, the Jackson family is talking more and more about murder; but this is part of the plan. And even if the court charged him with murder, the public should not consider him guilty yet; he would only be a murder suspect—until he has had a fair trial, and also been convicted.
But if he goes to trail, and is acquitted, what are the chances that the media and public are going to accept it? Much like MJ himself, no doubt Murray will still be condemned in the eyes of the public. In fact, MJ may save the bam until this happens—just to show the public that they did not treat Murray as innocent until proven guilty. Remember in V for Vendetta: V was fighting for the freedom of the citizens in general; but he was also fighting for his own personal Vendetta.
Also keep in mind the simple fact that if the hoax has continued this far, it’s has to be much more than just a joke. MJ is a prankster, yes; but it has gone way beyond that. There must be some very serious reasons for this hoax (which is what TIAI has said all along).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-43. For Those Losing Faith: the Trial Is Not Over Yet
In TIAI Update #2, I wrote the following: “If the doctor goes to trial, and is found not guilty: again, watch the family. If they make an uproar (which they are certainly capable of doing, with all the publicity that they get)—and show truths about a murder plot, then MJ is really dead. But if they act nearly the same as at the memorial and funeral, then MJ is alive.”
In spite of the fact that the court case is not over yet: still some people have been losing faith over the autopsy report, or the court case itself, or DR at FL, etc. But it’s not time to lose faith yet, whatever happens.
In the interview with the “airport” slip-up, Jermaine said: “... it’s all gonna come out. It’s all gonna unfold.” {http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0SoaOe-cs}. So this is what we need to be waiting for; and giving up before that time is premature. “And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:31).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-44. Do You Still Need Even More Evidence???????-??
For those who need even more evidence—either that MJ is alive, and/or that TIAI has valid information—probably no amount of evidence would ever convince you; at least not before bamsday, and maybe not even after bamsday (you will say it’s not really MJ, it is a double).
I’m not ready yet to say how/where I got my information; that may not happen until after bamsday. But I did give some significant indicators in this update, for those who picked up on it.
And for the video-makers in YouTube land: it would be good to put together videos about the timing of the hoax—not necessarily as detailed as this update, but enough detail to show clearly that the timing was planned (and maybe a link to this update, for those who want more detail).
Last but certainly not least: a huge thank-you to Souza and Mo for your hard work in providing this forum, and also your own research. Don’t worry about the fact that people criticize you for not being MJ fans. You are doing for MJ what millions of MJ fans are not doing. There are millions of MJ fans in the world—yes, maybe even billions. But he himself said: “I’ve met a lot of people in my life. And very few are real, real, real friends—could probably count them on one hand.” {http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycuZXKqdZE} Before this is all over, hopefully Michael will need more than one hand to count his real, real, real friends.
Many are called; few are chosen... may I be one worthy to call friend. bearhug
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 26, 2011, 08:18:16 PM
@Moon. I LOVE your post. It is the perfect combination of articulate and emotional. Too many people refuse to go against the grain. Getting in touch with your spiritual side can be even more difficult because we are so brainwashed from the time we are children.
BAM, THE RETURN, RESSURECTION...whatever you want to call it, is difficult to believe in when you refuse to change your way of thinking and that is completely understandable. All I know is that this has been one hell of a ride that I am thankful to have been awake enough to get on.
We are all going to come together one way or another and I believe the process starts NOW.... L.O.V.E.
Awwww, you're too kind too too kind! Stop being so damn kind! lol jk, thanks. I enjoy your posts, too. It's nice to know there are so many intellectual people on board with this MJ project. Mike must be so proud of us :)
PS Tooty, you are one of the few men on here. I hope you're ok with us women taking over the world when MJ BAMS! We will spare you! ;) ;) LMAO
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 26, 2011, 08:23:12 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 26, 2011, 08:32:58 PM
Thank you BeTheChange..........you're an angel to me ;)
Blessings....what an amazing day.
As you are to me! (http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/smile/931.gif)
And yes...an amazing day...now having an amazing night, I feel great! penguin/
Blessings right back at ya...
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Andrea on October 26, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
I thought level 7 suppose to be after bam?
Update 7 after BAM, which will be posted under "TS" instead of "TS_comments". The levels are a way around that, lol.
Post by: MichaelsAngel on October 26, 2011, 08:35:36 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 26, 2011, 08:41:46 PM
I thought level 7 suppose to be after bam?
Yes, that's "update" 7 that you are talking about. When i read about the level 7, immediately thought he was talking about update seven & i was like
:shock: :shock: :o /woohoo/ party/
but then I realized it said level and i was like oh... :|
lolol/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 26, 2011, 08:52:28 PM
Quote
This is not really a guess but more like an awareness of the milestones and 2 have yet to pass. 11-11-11 is coming up soon and I highly doubt Bamsday and/or level 7 is happening then, it is to soon. The court case isn't even done yet. The other date is farther away and even though I doubt that will be Bamsday and/or level 7, I do find it interesting and relevant because you made mention of it. So it says to me that we will at least have to make it to 12-12-12. Whatever happens I got a hand, finger and toe holding on to the end.
I have to laugh at myself because I was thinking update but wrote level instead. Thanks to Andrea I am reminded. My brain is on overload. I also can not use any code in reply. It's weird. I have bold memorized. lol
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 11:52:32 PM
Well if Murray would stop crying - it would help a lot /white flag/ .
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 26, 2011, 11:55:38 PM
But I just can't be excited about this, as I was excited before about a return and it didn't happen.
About the witnesses yesterday, I just don't see how Murray's patients could help proving he didn't kill Michael Jackson by accident.
I am very curious after all testimonies, what will be really left for the jury to ponder over, because really, except for a lot of drama, they don't have too much material to analize in regards to the object of this trial.
really, I would fire all of them, DAs and Murray's attorneys, they do a lousy job.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 12:01:41 AM
Sorry about this.
I can't guarantee he said with L.O.V.E. lolol/
Post by: bec on October 27, 2011, 12:06:28 AM
Post by: RK on October 27, 2011, 12:18:23 AM
Post by: SimPattyK on October 27, 2011, 12:56:25 AM
TS sarcastic? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol: :lol:Oh my! I LLLOOVE this hoax!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think he already gave away that he will post level 7 this upcoming Friday. Probably to let us guess about the verdict or something, while he is laying back, lurking and eating popcorn.
About MJ not sharing his plan, that is probably why Pastor wants to 'see counsel' that much. They might get pieces of the script/story in that room. Could also explain Pastor's frustrated face. I remember an article on TMZ: Jackson's Demanding Personality On Trial (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-defense-coca-cole-caffeine-addiction/#.TqiXpt7z2so) lolol/ lolol/
Funny how they changed that from Coca Cola to Red Bull by the way. New sponsor?
I think the only person that is NOT taken by surprise [read pranked/fooled] in this hoax is MJ himself!
The rest ... are ALL his "victims" of his unpredictability ... starting with his Mom and ending with the latest beLIEver, not to mention the non-beLIEvers , even less the totally unaware people!!
OMG!! What a shock it will be when this whole thing comes out!!
I am now starting to understand Michael's words: "I wanna shock the world! Wanna go for the jugular!" - this meaning some people will probably literally choke out of surprise! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Surpris/hoo.gif) striving to breath with their mouths wide open for air! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Surpris/machoire2.gif) Can you IMAGINE this picture? lmao :lol: :lol:
Post by: TS_comments on October 27, 2011, 02:55:16 AM
“I have this magic ball here and that tells me you are not [Murray].”
Is that ball an 8, or a 9 (0+1+5+3)? Either way, you are obviously paying too much attention—and you should go back to sleep, just like the other 6.9 billion people in the world {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502)}. :|
“‘Objection Your Honor! Hearsay! - Sustained! Strike that last tweet.’”
How did you wind up being counsel, judge, and jury—all at the same time? What kind of a Kangaroo Court is that?? bounce/ /judge/
“But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?”
Murray cooperated with the mystery person. And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y, and I want to turn myself in—would the court accept that, or dismiss it as hearsay? :?:
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
Post by: curls on October 27, 2011, 03:03:18 AM
(You're not normally around at the same time as me, are you having trouble sleeping?)
Post by: TS_comments on October 27, 2011, 03:11:43 AM
suspicious//
Bec,
I have been spending about 18 hours a day, for the last two days, trying to finish reading this post of yours {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365487.html#msg365487 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365487.html#msg365487)}--and I'm not even half way through it! /pull hair/
By now, my mind is exhausted, and I can't even remember most of what I have read; so I'm just going to give up finishing it. /white flag/
This post of yours is just way too long--much like those TS updates!! bangbang bangbang bangbang
Perhaps, could you be so kind as to condense your post here to about one-tenth the size? :idea:
Then maybe I could get through it all. :ugeek: :geek: :ugeek:
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 27, 2011, 03:27:19 AM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 04:25:11 AM
(http://www.cairnsmedia.com/images/The-Book-of-Answers-cover.jpg)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 04:32:26 AM
@Gina, why not tell your husband that when MJ BAMS he has to pay for a flight and accomodation to LA for our post bam party as well as look after the family while your away. If he's so sure we're crazy he will agree. Then hold him to it after BAM. That'll teach him. I told my husband that I'll be going to the States for a post bam party yesterday and all he said was 'okay'.
Don't you worry, he already agreed with much more serious stuff in case Michael comes back, can't tell what it is :lol: :lol: :lol: geek/ !
Of course, he can agree with anything because for him Michael is dead and buried 2 meters under the ground.
But it has to be all on my money, not his /pull hair/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 04:36:27 AM
Now I have to watch it, right?
I hope I can find it online somewhere.
Post by: TS_comments on October 27, 2011, 04:39:56 AM
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20134.msg351364.html#msg351364 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20134.msg351364.html#msg351364)}.
Since you never promised, I never answered your BAM questions. However, just like I suspected, you have now found something else to doubt and fret about (911 call timing). So let me offer once more: will you promise to make this the last time? If so, I will take the time to answer the 12:20 or 12:21 timing questions. But I can’t take the time to keep answering every new concern that you or anyone else might come up with, ad-infinitum.
What's the difference? A very important one. To 12:21 911 call are tied a lot of calculations, which could fall right now and I am one of those who found a logic in these calculations. If a piece is wrong, the whole building can go down. So these falling down right now are important and I cannot pretend I didn't notice. ... Refuse or avoid an answer is weird and out of place at this stage, because a lot of us, even if many don't post anymore, want to find the truth of all this.
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365850.html#msg365850 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365850.html#msg365850)}.
So I guess the whole building falls: this means that TS is fake informer, and MJ was literally murdered, and the Illuminati found out and copied MJ’s plan on numerology; yet they accidentally called about one minute too soon (12:20 instead of 12:21), but they were barely able to recover their mistake by delaying the transfer for soooooo loooooong, and then made the transfer at 12:21, and also succeeded in getting the media to report the transfer time rather than the original 911 call time!!??!!
Trublu wrote: “A simple explanation about the time being shown an reported as 12:21 would have been a lot simpler.”
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365855.html#msg365855 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365855.html#msg365855)}.
What if the explanation is NOT simple (which is the case with the 911 call)? The reality is that some things are complex, and most likely you will NEVER get answers to any and all possible questions on all of the fine details of how everything happened—not now, or even after BAM. So will you accept a detailed explanation of the 911 timing, and let that be it? Or will you soon find yet another molehill, and try to create a mountain out of it??
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 04:40:38 AM
What are you all talking about this Illusionist movie?
Now I have to watch it, right?
I hope I can find it online somewhere.
Even if it weren't hoax related you should watch it. Great movie and in this case it might bring some positivity back to you.
Post by: curls on October 27, 2011, 05:08:46 AM
You've got me wondering about MJ's insomnia and whether it's just another facet of this illusion. Could be I guess. Certainly the whole trial is centred around it. But if it is a genuine problem for him I wonder if he's ever used nutrition as an aid. Being awake when you want to be asleep can be related to low blood sugar levels - the 'being awake' is, IMO and experience, the body saying 'hey, I need fuel'. He should've had that bean soup Kai Chase had prepared for him, that she said he didn't eat, before he went to bed on 25th June - some good complex carbohydrates could've worked wonders - oh wait, maybe he did, 'cos Janet or LaToya said they found the remains in his room?! We never did hear any more about that did we?
Sorry, I'm rambling already, and it's only mid-morning here - see what your unusual timing has done TS?!!
Post by: _Anna_ on October 27, 2011, 05:12:54 AM
Since you never promised, I never answered your BAM questions. However, just like I suspected, you have now found something else to doubt and fret about (911 call timing). So let me offer once more: will you promise to make this the last time? If so, I will take the time to answer the 12:20 or 12:21 timing questions. But I can’t take the time to keep answering every new concern that you or anyone else might come up with, ad-infinitum.
Ok, and I'm being serious and I keep my promise: it will be the last time I will bring something I don't find right/don't understand into question. Even if there will be doubts, I won't voice them, and I will keep them for myself.
There is plenty I don't say and just keep silent, observing, for various reasons. It's not always intelligent to voice everything one thinks of, because, as I remember you also said- the best way to test people is when they are not aware of.
I also want to say, that just because I'm not like the others doesn't mean at all I do it to harm anybody. As I stated millions of times, this, for me, was never like for some other people-there are millions of questions with no answer for me after more than 2 years, there is uncertainity about who is the puppetmaster- the good or the evil. There is a fine line between who is the puppetmaster, which swings from right to left many times in my head.
I cannot promise to be positive, because it's not about "being positive" or "being negative", it's about ration for me. I could never look at this situation through pink glasses because there has always been that thought in my mind that the evil could have done it, and murder him. I don't know every detail about NWO/Illuminati, how they work in the smallest details, how much they use black mail to fulfill their agenda, these are still unknown territories, or half-known. As long as there is a chance this is all their work,and that they could have murdered him, I cannot see it like other people do. Some find it exciting, or entertaining, a great adventure. To me it was never like this. Maybe I'm consumed by this, by the thought they could have done it. And that's the reason many see it as negativity. But like one of the best writers from here once said: "A pessimist is a well informed optimist".
Having said this, anyway... I will keep for myself any other doubts -like I do with many other things. Just one thing I want to add: if I wasn't interested I would have given up long ago. If it wasn't for Michael, I would have given up to all this- to inner torments, sleepless nights, fears, nightmares. If it wasn't for Michael I would have given up.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 05:16:55 AM
What? STILL up TS?!
You've got me wondering about MJ's insomnia and whether it's just another facet of this illusion. Could be I guess. Certainly the whole trial is centred around it. But if it is a genuine problem for him I wonder if he's ever used nutrition as an aid. Being awake when you want to be asleep can be related to low blood sugar levels - the 'being awake' is, IMO and experience, the body saying 'hey, I need fuel'. He should've had that bean soup Kai Chase had prepared for him, that she said he didn't eat, before he went to bed on 25th June - some good complex carbohydrates could've worked wonders - oh wait, maybe he did, 'cos Janet or LaToya said they found the remains in his room?! We never did hear any more about that did we?
Sorry, I'm rambling already, and it's only mid-morning here - see what your unusual timing has done TS?!!
I read somewhere that a human mind works more efficient during the night. I have a low blood sugar level by the way, didn't know that my nights awake could be related to that. Thanks for the tip.
Post by: Loud on October 27, 2011, 05:24:06 AM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 05:29:05 AM
Post by: Raikiramari on October 27, 2011, 05:32:41 AM
bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang bangbang
What's up Souza? D:
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 05:39:56 AM
Post by: curls on October 27, 2011, 05:49:06 AM
Thanks for the tip.
You're welcome! (to use Judge Pastor's favourite phrase!!)
Post by: 6Bpeople on October 27, 2011, 07:07:22 AM
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/useroff.gif) TS_comments (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?action=profile;u=6720)
- Army of L.O.V.E.
- Posts: 105
« Reply #1886 on: Today at 07:55:16 AM »
Quote from: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 09:16:09 AM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502) “I have this magic ball here and that tells me you are not [Murray].”Is that ball an 8, or a 9 (0+1+5+3)? Either way, you are obviously paying too much attention—and you should go back to sleep, just like the other 6.9 billion people in the world {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population);http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502)}.
TS, are you suggesting we all have to go to sleep ( all of us, 6.9 billion people)? because, according to the sun, the moon and several other things we are not supposed to sleep in the SAAAME time.
Or, maybe you're suggesting we all have to wait for something related to the world population like for exemple the birth of the 7th billion child in the world???? This could be a great BAMSDAY and could explain why it's so hard to "book" a date for bamsday because even if the world pop ( btw, King of pop is a funny saying if pop means population... ) is growing there's this little back and forth movement slowing the time to reach 7 billion people on earth.
So! the trial is supposed to end on oct 28th but, according to Souza, this could be delayed to oct 31th. I read somewhere that the Mayan calendar ends on oct 28th leading to a new energy with the end of the 9th wave ( I honestly don't no much about that ). It also seems that oct 31th could the 7th billion child birthday (see link)http://www.aquaculturewithoutfrontiers.org/7-billion-people-will-inhabit-the-earth-in-october/ (http://www.aquaculturewithoutfrontiers.org/7-billion-people-will-inhabit-the-earth-in-october/)
Is Michael also waiting for BAMSDAY before to be able to do "his thing"?
I don't know if my thought is clear and I apologize for my frenglish!
The Seventh billion child theroist.
Post by: Adi on October 27, 2011, 07:14:29 AM
party/ penguin/ /woohoo/
@TS...I had a very strong feeling that you were just "playing" with us with your defence of the murder theory. As MJ said at the end of the TII credits "I'm gonna look around a bit, play with them".
Well TS, a.k.a "Dr Con-rad Murder-y" :lol: , I think you have done just that to a few people here and now you have given yourself an 'F' for succeeding at failing to prove the murder theory :lol: :lol: :lol: I laughed so hard when I read that...you are very funny.
I hope the negativity lifts from those who are feeling this way at the moment. I think the trial has been testing alot of believers but remember for the past 2.5 years there have been SOOO many clues, inconsistencies, whispers, not so subtle whispers (thanks Jermaine and LaToya) and obvious immaculately planned timing of events for Michael to be anything else but alive. Just go back and re-read and re-discover ALL those old clues and of course the TS Updates if you feel this way. I reckon it will help.
..and TS thanks for being here with us all this time respect/ I am looking forward to the rest of the journey with you being with us I hope :mrgreen:
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 27, 2011, 07:30:11 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 27, 2011, 07:35:21 AM
Thank you for letting me put my angry eyes back on my Mr. Potato Head >:( I don't like having to use them :lol:
:) This is a much better look, wouldn't you agree?
Have a blessed day.........
PS> Souza.......I have an extra hammer if you need crash/ Blessings.
Post by: BeTheChange on October 27, 2011, 08:22:35 AM
With L.O.V.E. always.
@Souza...here's my contribution bangbang
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 27, 2011, 08:31:21 AM
First just want to say to anyone who is struggling to keep the faith because of CM crying, or whatever is shaking their faith... (again easy for me to say as I have not been here for 2 years like others) if at times, this MJ death, and court case, a family statements, CM in court etc, makes you doubt DH, THEN THATS A GOOD THING!!! What that actually means is that MJ's death hoax worked as is successful and that all is going to plan! Why would someone go to the trouble of faking their death for obviously an important reason, and make is so that the majority of people could pick it for a fake so easily.... he has crafted this DH and every intricate detail to look as believable as possible to the untrained eye / ear / mind for a purpose. the mastermind has crafted this to be as believeable as possible for the entire world. and yes its believable, but need to think logically about the facts and not be swayed by your own emotional responses to the 'act'.
I wonder why MJ is trying so hard to shake off the believers.
Why is he trying so hard to discourage us?
Why is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
@ bec - your quote reminded me of V. some are struggling with how cruel this may seem... it was hard for evey. she went thru hell. yet the heartache she experienced liberated her. freedom doesnt come easy... whatever lesson mj is teaching us, if its abt medical field, media, government, court / judicial, etc = its going to be heartwrenching before it gets better.... night is darkest befre dawn...
V: You said you wanted to live without fear. I wish there'd been an easier way, but there wasn't.
[Evey whispers, "Oh my God...?]
V: I know you may never forgive me... but nor will you understand how hard it was for me to do what I did. Every day I saw in myself everything you see in me now. Every day I wanted to end it, but each time you refused to give in, I knew I couldn't.
Evey Hammond: You're *sick*! You're *evil*!
V: *You* could've ended it, Evey, you could've given in. But you didn't. Why?
Evey Hammond: Leave me alone! I *hate* you!
V: That's it! See, at first I thought it was hate, too. Hate was all I knew, it built my world, it imprisoned me, taught me how to eat, how to drink, how to breathe. I thought I'd die with all my hate in my veins. But then something happened. It happened to me... just as it happened to you.
Evey Hammond: Shut up! I *don't* want to hear your lies!
V: Your own father said that artists use lies to tell the truth. Yes, I created a lie. But because you believed it, you found something true about yourself.
I care no further to sway people, to convince them, to help bolster their faith. People will either believe or not, nothing I can say or do or show n tell will change anyone's mind. They have to find it for themselves. Any effort to the contrary is a waste of time and emotional energy... both of which I have run short of.
nor should you have to. no one can make another individual see the light. they need to see it for themselves. and if they can't then where is their conviction? or faith? where is their mere ability to remember and recall all the evidence and blatant 'signals' that this DH has provided for 2 years plus...
emotion should not erase logic... emotion should not erase evidence.... emotion should NEVER errode faith...
Ps. @Gina, you need to take a stand against your husband and stand up for yourself. Who cares what happens in the end. You get to determine what is worth YOUR time and what isn't. NOT HIM. What, is he your keeper? He sounds like a buffoon.
not trying to be controversial here. but just wanted to comment that my husband is also a non believer. he watches me go online on my laptop every day / nite. he doesnt believe, but says that he hasnt given the evidence a fair look, (its just not a topic of interest to him - although justice should be a topic of interest to everybody! moving on...) so he therefore says he cant make the call of whether DH is true or false. though a non believer however, he still supports me with giving me time daily to come online and do my research. he respects that i am not only interested in this, but feel that it's very important to me that i know the truth, even though he is not personally interested. he also (again although not an mj fan) asks me daily if there are any developments, new findings, etc... he sees that i am committed to searching for truth and because he respects that this is important to me, he never mocks me no matter how far fetched some of the DH theories may appear to a non believer when i discuss them with him. i couldnt respect a man who didnt respect things that are important to me.
Latoya gave a HUGE clue with the Illusion and Illusionist movie comparison. Are there any believers left who are still confused if Michael is dead or alive? I personally would like to thank Latoya for this amazing clue and now CAN WE PLS BE HAPPY AND CELEBRATE IT BECAUSE OUR KING IS VERY MUCH ALIVE?!!! This whole thing was also done for entertainment purposes. I'm not saying let's forget about everything and have fun all the time but we need to have fun too sometimes. I want every each of you to be happy! We deserve it! And the clue Latoya gave is amazing, so let's enjoy it for a moment, shall we?@ purelove - beautiful post as usual! just gorgeous... This is for you respect/ bearhug and this is for ms L jackson respect/ bearhug
thank you purelove for being so positive...
also RK & Grace - I also really enjoy reading your productive comments. for the most part most of the comments here are refreshing and not discouraging!! L.O.V.E and hugs to you all for staying strong.
bearhug
I think he already gave away that he will post level 7 this upcoming Friday. Probably to let us guess about the verdict or something, while he is laying back, lurking and eating popcorn.
@ souza, it amazes me that after 2 years of this, as well as all the hard work you put into the forum and tube, you still stay light hearted... blessings to you. its a wonderful quality positivity and humour :)
@ TS - and whilst i am handing out hugs n L.O.V.E - this one if for you, your brilliance and your appreciated time spent posting, replying and guiding bearhug
Post by: Andrea on October 27, 2011, 08:45:28 AM
La Toya has definitely been a hoaxer's best friend, so has Jermai_e and Paris and the rest of the Jackson clan has been awesome. It's a family effort for sure, "blood is thicker than mud".
I want to thank everyone who has been keeping me updated on the trial, via this thread and others, I haven't been able to watch the trial as much as I'd like to as I have to work, although I'm starting to catch up with youtube. I appreciate everyone's hard work!!
Post by: fordtocarr on October 27, 2011, 08:59:33 AM
I've never been so excited about something since this hoax began as yesterday as I was watching the trial and heard LaToya say this is an illusion and to watch The Illusionist. As I stated in another post, to me this is NOT a clue. It is a fact. We didn't have to search it out..we didn't have to decode it. It was served to us already done. Anyone who choses to encode it and make it back into an entanglement will be surprised at the bam I suppose.
I don't know If I'm more anxious for Michael's return or to find out WHO you are....LOL
Thanks for the clues..for your part and for all your time reading our posts and helping us find the right path.
(btw, no matter WHAT you'd have given to us as proof Michael died, however it be he died, I wouldn't have ever believed it!! I'm glad you didn't try too hard and gave it up :) )
Post by: jono on October 27, 2011, 09:20:24 AM
Just expressing my feelings after reading some messages and their underlying insinuations.
LOL!! lolol/ lolol/ lolol/
I feel you Souza! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 09:30:44 AM
TS, I'm glad you've given up the silly notion that Michael was murdered - although I know you never actually thought that or had a hope you could prove it! But I think by no longer "supporting" the murder theory, you've alleviated some doubts some may have been having.
La Toya has definitely been a hoaxer's best friend, so has Jermai_e and Paris and the rest of the Jackson clan has been awesome. It's a family effort for sure, "blood is thicker than mud".
I want to thank everyone who has been keeping me updated on the trial, via this thread and others, I haven't been able to watch the trial as much as I'd like to as I have to work, although I'm starting to catch up with youtube. I appreciate everyone's hard work!!
TS,... and TS_comments renounce that theory that first have to discredit everything written. rr/
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 10:08:00 AM
party/ beerchug
Post by: fordtocarr on October 27, 2011, 10:09:14 AM
I just can't see that Michael would've wanted THAT!! So I figure if Murray does go free, we're in for some startling revolution! Michael would surely clear his name up..just as I think is happening all along this journey. What do you all think about the possible verdicts and what they could mean?
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 10:31:47 AM
Happy birthday paula!!
party/ beerchug
thanks Souza beerchug
Post by: Andrea on October 27, 2011, 10:50:46 AM
I actually tried sending you a PM instead but I kept getting an error message every time I hit send. My apologies if you end up with like 5 messages from me!
Have an awesome day, I love you!
Post by: BeTheChange on October 27, 2011, 11:05:25 AM
party/
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 11:10:18 AM
Scary movie errrr
One thing I didn't understand: was the family doctor in the hoax or not suspicious//?
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 11:11:00 AM
... There is a pumpkin for Halloween in the courtroom now lolol/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 11:14:45 AM
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 11:19:41 AM
Oh Paula is it your birthday today? Happy birthday party/ !!
Thanks Gina party/ bearhug
....Now is not the pumpkin suspicious//
Post by: PureLove on October 27, 2011, 11:58:17 AM
Speaking of the Jack-O-Lantern at the trial, it reminded me the movie "The Nightmare Before Christmas". Well maybe it is because I'm a fan of Tim Burton and his movies. But I believe that there's a connection btw Tim Burton movies and Michael. It's like they inspire each other. We talked about Tim Burton movies and Johnny Depp connection of Michael before but I don't remember we talked about this movie. If you haven't seen it yet and if you like Tim Burton movies like the Corpse Bride, you will definitely love this one too. And you will understand what I'm saying about the MJ connection when you watch it with your hoax eyes.
Here is more about the movie.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
(http://gallery.anipike.com/data/2/medium/nightmare-before-christmas.jpg)
Halloween Town is a dream world filled with dark creatures such as deformed monsters, ghosts, ghouls, goblins, vampires, werewolves and witches. The Pumpkin King, named Jack Skellington, leads them in a frightful celebration every Halloween, but he has grown tired of the same routine year after year. Wandering in the forest outside the town center with his ghost dog, Zero, he finds a cluster of trees each with a door which represents a certain annual holiday. Jack is drawn to the tree with the Christmas tree-shaped door and opens it which leads to a portal to "Christmas Town". Impressed by the feeling and style of Christmas, Jack presents his findings of the holiday to the Halloween Town residents. They fail to grasp his meaning and compare everything he says to their idea of Halloween. Jack undertakes several experiments to try to understand Christmas logically, but he becomes frustrated when he fails to understand. However, he realizes that just because he can't understand Christmas does not mean he still can't enjoy it; so he announces to Halloween Town that this year they will take over Christmas.
Jack's obsession with Christmas leads him to usurp the role of Santa Claus, known to him as "Sandy Claws". Every resident is assigned a task, while Sally, a rag doll woman who was created by the town's mad scientist, has romantic feelings towards Jack. However, when she is alone, she has a premonition of Jack's Christmas ending in disaster. When she tells Jack that it would be a bad idea for him to take over Christmas, he misinterprets her anxiety to mean that she is worried when given the responsibility to make Jack's Santa costume. Meanwhile, Jack assigns Lock, Shock and Barrel, a trio of mischievous children, to bring Santa to Halloween Town. When he arrives, Jack tells him of his plan that he will take over Christmas this year, much to Santa's protests. After this and against Jack's wishes, and largely for their amusement, the trio deliver Santa to Oogie Boogie, a gambling-addict bogeyman who plots to play a game with Santa's life at stake.
Christmas Eve arrives and Sally attempts to stop Jack with fog, but he embarks into the sky on a coffin-like sleigh pulled by skeletal reindeer and guided by the glowing nose of his ghost dog, Zero. He begins to deliver presents to children around the world, but the gifts (shrunken heads, Christmas tree-eating snakes, etc.) only terrify the recipients. Jack is believed to be an impostor attempting to impersonate Santa. The army is alerted, and, using searchlights to spot him, they try to shoot him down. The sleigh is shot down and Jack is presumed dead by Halloween Town's citizens, but in fact he has survived the crash, landing in a cemetery. Although he is depressed by the failure of his plan and the damage it caused, he quickly regains his old spirit by realising that he still tried his best at Christmas and enjoyed it. Having come up with new ideas for next Halloween and wanting to "set things right", he rushes back to Halloween Town.
Meanwhile, Sally attempts to free Santa, but fails and is also captured by Oogie. Jack slips into the Oogie's lair and frees both Santa and Sally. Jack then confronts Oogie and avoids his traps. While Oogie tries to escape, Jack uses a single loose thread hanging from Oogie's sewn rag structure to rip him open, exposing the bugs Oogie is made of. He falls apart, and with Oogie defeated, Santa reprimands Jack before setting off to deliver his presents to the children of the world. Jack asks Sally how she got into Oogie's lair in the first place and he realises that she was trying to help Jack because she has feelings for him. When Jack and Sally return to Halloween Town, the citizens rejoice that Jack is alive and soon Santa is seen in the sky, making snow fall over Halloween Town to show that there are no hard feelings between himself and Jack. The townspeople are confused by the snow at first, but soon begin to play happily in it. Jack follows Sally out into the graveyard after seeing the Doctor with his new creation. Jack and Sally begin to sing of their very strong romantic feelings for each other and then share a passionate kiss on top of the spiral hill in the graveyard. Zero watches them from afar before flying into the night sky forming a bright star shape and ending the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightmare_Before_Christmas
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsikMF_ofg&feature=related[/youtube]
Jack says in this song: Just because I can not see it, doesn't mean I can not believe it! ;) Go and watch it. It's so Michaelish and you will love it.
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on October 27, 2011, 12:01:02 PM
....especially if u wish for BAM! lolol/
Post by: PureLove on October 27, 2011, 12:01:43 PM
party/ penguin/ michael-jackson/ mj_dance/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztoSUhbNntQ[/youtube]
Post by: BeTheChange on October 27, 2011, 12:14:57 PM
By their logic...it's 'ok' for a doctor to give a patient anything they ask for simply because they want it...that's ridiculous. Even if it's a star...even if it's Michael Jackson doing the asking...a doctor's OATH should supercede any 'drug' requests unless they are warranted. If they agree to giving the drugs knowing they are not necessary, or even worse, knowing the patient has an addiction...it is NOT the addict that has broken any OATH...it is the doctor. Their line of questioning makes absolutely no sense to me at all...the only thing it shows is that Klein should be next in line to stand before a judge and the medical board (ASSuming, of course, that those are real medical records and that those drugs were given on those days).
Furthermore, WTF?? does a demerol or any possible drug addiction have to do with Murray buying gallons of propofol, shipped to his girlfriend (lol) and giving it to MJ in his bedroom without proper equipment, resulting in his supposed 'death'??? :?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Grace on October 27, 2011, 12:33:20 PM
Happy birthday paula!!
party/ beerchug
Happy birthday, dear Paula, and don't hide your cherry cake(s) because they are as sweet and beautiful as you are! Have a wonderful party!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/Themes/default/images/sweet/2.png)
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 01:05:25 PM
Thank you PureLove, StrangerInCalifornia and Grace, I loved them bearhug
... the pumpkin combines with the necktie /woohoo/
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/courtpumpkin.jpg)
Speaking of the Jack-O-Lantern at the trial, it reminded me the movie "The Nightmare Before Christmas". Well maybe it is because I'm a fan of Tim Burton and his movies. But I believe that there's a connection btw Tim Burton movies and Michael. It's like they inspire each other. We talked about Tim Burton movies and Johnny Depp connection of Michael before but I don't remember we talked about this movie. If you haven't seen it yet and if you like Tim Burton movies like the Corpse Bride, you will definitely love this one too. And you will understand what I'm saying about the MJ connection when you watch it with your hoax eyes.
Here is more about the movie.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
(http://gallery.anipike.com/data/2/medium/nightmare-before-christmas.jpg)
Halloween Town is a dream world filled with dark creatures such as deformed monsters, ghosts, ghouls, goblins, vampires, werewolves and witches. The Pumpkin King, named Jack Skellington, leads them in a frightful celebration every Halloween, but he has grown tired of the same routine year after year. Wandering in the forest outside the town center with his ghost dog, Zero, he finds a cluster of trees each with a door which represents a certain annual holiday. Jack is drawn to the tree with the Christmas tree-shaped door and opens it which leads to a portal to "Christmas Town". Impressed by the feeling and style of Christmas, Jack presents his findings of the holiday to the Halloween Town residents. They fail to grasp his meaning and compare everything he says to their idea of Halloween. Jack undertakes several experiments to try to understand Christmas logically, but he becomes frustrated when he fails to understand. However, he realizes that just because he can't understand Christmas does not mean he still can't enjoy it; so he announces to Halloween Town that this year they will take over Christmas.
Jack's obsession with Christmas leads him to usurp the role of Santa Claus, known to him as "Sandy Claws". Every resident is assigned a task, while Sally, a rag doll woman who was created by the town's mad scientist, has romantic feelings towards Jack. However, when she is alone, she has a premonition of Jack's Christmas ending in disaster. When she tells Jack that it would be a bad idea for him to take over Christmas, he misinterprets her anxiety to mean that she is worried when given the responsibility to make Jack's Santa costume. Meanwhile, Jack assigns Lock, Shock and Barrel, a trio of mischievous children, to bring Santa to Halloween Town. When he arrives, Jack tells him of his plan that he will take over Christmas this year, much to Santa's protests. After this and against Jack's wishes, and largely for their amusement, the trio deliver Santa to Oogie Boogie, a gambling-addict bogeyman who plots to play a game with Santa's life at stake.
Christmas Eve arrives and Sally attempts to stop Jack with fog, but he embarks into the sky on a coffin-like sleigh pulled by skeletal reindeer and guided by the glowing nose of his ghost dog, Zero. He begins to deliver presents to children around the world, but the gifts (shrunken heads, Christmas tree-eating snakes, etc.) only terrify the recipients. Jack is believed to be an impostor attempting to impersonate Santa. The army is alerted, and, using searchlights to spot him, they try to shoot him down. The sleigh is shot down and Jack is presumed dead by Halloween Town's citizens, but in fact he has survived the crash, landing in a cemetery. Although he is depressed by the failure of his plan and the damage it caused, he quickly regains his old spirit by realising that he still tried his best at Christmas and enjoyed it. Having come up with new ideas for next Halloween and wanting to "set things right", he rushes back to Halloween Town.
Meanwhile, Sally attempts to free Santa, but fails and is also captured by Oogie. Jack slips into the Oogie's lair and frees both Santa and Sally. Jack then confronts Oogie and avoids his traps. While Oogie tries to escape, Jack uses a single loose thread hanging from Oogie's sewn rag structure to rip him open, exposing the bugs Oogie is made of. He falls apart, and with Oogie defeated, Santa reprimands Jack before setting off to deliver his presents to the children of the world. Jack asks Sally how she got into Oogie's lair in the first place and he realises that she was trying to help Jack because she has feelings for him. When Jack and Sally return to Halloween Town, the citizens rejoice that Jack is alive and soon Santa is seen in the sky, making snow fall over Halloween Town to show that there are no hard feelings between himself and Jack. The townspeople are confused by the snow at first, but soon begin to play happily in it. Jack follows Sally out into the graveyard after seeing the Doctor with his new creation. Jack and Sally begin to sing of their very strong romantic feelings for each other and then share a passionate kiss on top of the spiral hill in the graveyard. Zero watches them from afar before flying into the night sky forming a bright star shape and ending the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightmare_Before_Christmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightmare_Before_Christmas)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsikMF_ofg&feature=related[/youtube]
Jack says in this song: Just because I can not see it, doesn't mean I can not believe it! ;) Go and watch it. It's so Michaelish and you will love it.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 27, 2011, 01:10:49 PM
For this level: bec has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the hoax court theory, Im_convincedmjalive has agreed (on my request) to lead out in the sting court theory, and TS has agreed ( :lol:) to lead out in the murder court theory (no hoax court, and no sting court).So you responded to Souza and bec but not me. It's ok because after looking at these responses, I won! smiley_spider ;D lolol/
So in this level I plan to respond primarily to bec and Im_convincedmjalive;
crash/
I think all we have proved is that we cannot prove anything in regards to this hoax.
I give up.
MJ, come back or not, I'll just watch.
And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y,...Just as I said before a big fat CON of MURDER. ;)
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder).
I have not given up and never intend to. I am riding this out until the wheels fall off.I said I was gonna ride this out until the wheels fall off. 8)
Post by: trublu on October 27, 2011, 01:33:38 PM
CONRAD MURRAY TRIAL
You're getting sleepy ...
Could be nothing but I thought it was strange.
Point taken TS, it would therefore not have been easier to have given a 'simple' explanation about the time. I just think there is an awful lot to keep up with, we all have lives on the side with jobs, families etc. I think it's normal that not everyone 'gets' it all of the time and ask some questions.
Anyway, back to the trial! It feels like it's getting quite hot in that court room!
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 27, 2011, 02:52:03 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on October 27, 2011, 02:54:47 PM
Quote
Is that ball an 8, or a 9 (0+1+5+3)? Either way, you are obviously paying too much attention—and you should go back to sleep, just like the other 6.9 billion people in the world {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365502.html#msg365502}.
Well,well Ts it's seems that maybe we will not GO TO SLEEP,after all.And you know why???? Because for more than 2 years,we are NOT SLEEPING,we are LIVING MICHAEL's DREAM.Remember,the last DREAM that Michael wanted to share with us????? We are in that DREAM my LOVE,we are A PART of IT 8-) :lol: .And if you want more BALLS geek/ here are some from 2009 at TOM's toys and from 2011 at NEVERLAND ;). TS_,You thaught us WELL,but REMEMBER that SOMETIES SMALLER is SMARTER ;)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://en.michaeljackson.ro/photo/michael-and-his-children-visits-toms-toys(411)-m-13.jpg)
(http://en.michaeljackson.ro/photo/michael-and-his-children-visits-toms-toys(411)-m-14.jpg)
NEVERLAND • trailer
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRYgHPmHE28[/youtube]
TS_ :
Quote
Murray cooperated with the mystery person. And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y, and I want to turn myself in—would the court accept that, or dismiss it as hearsay?
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063}.
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ}.
Indeed Latoya has SPILLED THE BEANS,and we know now that EVERYTHING WAS AN ILLUSION.Or should I say a HOAX,or a DREAM,Michael's DREAM 8-)?????? You will have to choose betewn,THE LINES ,lol :lol: . You know very well what I'm talking about,and this DREAM/ILLUSION/HOAX started along time ago,but you are the one who don't want to SPILL IT OUT geek/. Admit it!!!!!!!
Well meantime it seems that out there is a NICE GENTELMAN,who's name is HURRY CURRY :lol:,whi is willing to spill everything OUT,even about Roseanne BARR,SONY,AEG and Paul Maccartney,and maybe about DR.WHITE geek/. Enjoy it TS and no matter if you LOVE or no,I LOVE YOU......I DO!!!!! 8-)
MJHOAXLIVE: " CONRAD MURRAY NEEDS TO SPILL IT"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRaNrf4DS0&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 03:10:54 PM
The question is: can we trust her now?
She tells us to watch the movie and read between the lines.
The movie is very clear.
Still it looks unbelievable that MJ was able to play dead for so long without giving himself away.
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 03:21:24 PM
happy birthday paula <3333 (:
thank you MJFAN7 beerchug
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 27, 2011, 03:29:24 PM
Post by: jono on October 27, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
OK I saw the video with LaToya giving that strange answer when she's asked about the witnesses.
The question is: can we trust her now?
She tells us to watch the movie and read between the lines.
The movie is very clear.
Still it looks unbelievable that MJ was able to play dead for so long without giving himself away.
Gina Felicia... It seems like that man of yours is starting to get inside of your head!
Think about all that you have learnt over the past 2 years or so... Think about it, listen to your heart and BELIVE.. Stop doubting now!
"But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind." - James 1:6 (=7) penguin/
Much LOVE to you! bearhug
PS. And you are not stupid my friend!
PPS. Gosh, there are a lot of women in here, aren't there? :lol:
Post by: Suzy7 on October 27, 2011, 04:45:16 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 27, 2011, 04:59:07 PM
OK I saw the video with LaToya giving that strange answer when she's asked about the witnesses.
The question is: can we trust her now?
She tells us to watch the movie and read between the lines.
The movie is very clear.
Still it looks unbelievable that MJ was able to play dead for so long without giving himself away.
/pull hair/
/scream/
bangbang
/overreacting/
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 27, 2011, 05:01:55 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 27, 2011, 05:05:34 PM
OMG Flanny called Murray THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!
:lol:
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 27, 2011, 05:10:50 PM
OMG Flanny called Murray THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/Smiley11-1.gif)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 27, 2011, 05:19:53 PM
Post by: mjj4ever777 on October 27, 2011, 06:27:52 PM
party/ bearhug party/
Post by: Sarahli on October 27, 2011, 06:34:10 PM
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 06:57:37 PM
There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben)
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Pharmaceutical industry = mafia
thanks mjj4ever777 bearhug
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 27, 2011, 08:10:51 PM
OMG Flanny called Murray THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!
Oh yeah... party/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 27, 2011, 08:16:14 PM
There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Sarahli-This is very good info you have come across. I had no idea of this but look at the names. This is big. IF these are the very same dudes testifying now, then this info you found could be why these two have been called as expert witnesses. Exposure of corruption? smiley_spider
Quote
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. "His findings had a huge impact on the field." He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.
Here is some media on Dr. Steven Shafer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/conrad-murray-trial-testi_n_1019560.html
P.S. Happy Birthday paula-c. party/
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 08:20:33 PM
Defense Expert Backtracks
Propofol Expert -- Dr. Paul White Testifies
Updated 10/27/11 at 2:00 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/10/27/1027-mj.jpg)
Anesthesiologist and Propofol expert Dr. Paul White -- the defense team's final witness -- has altered his original claim that Michael Jackson could have died from ingesting Propofol.
White just testified, claiming his initial theory that swallowing Propofol could have been fatal for the singer -- a theory he included in a prior report for the defense attorneys -- was just a plausible suggestion ... not a foregone conclusion.
During opening statements, the defense argued the The King of Pop may have killed himself by ingesting Propofol ... but has since dropped the claim after a study revealed drinking the anesthetic would not be fatal.
Other highlights:
* Defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan addressed what he called the "elephant in room," asking Dr. White whether he could justify administering Propofol, and then leaving the patient. White answered, "Absolutely not."
* White said he wouldn't expect Jackson to have died from the amount of Propofol Murray claims he gave the singer
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/27/people-vs-dr-conrad-murray-defense-propofol-expert-testifies-paul-white-michael-jackson-manslaughter-mj/
Post by: paula-c on October 27, 2011, 08:43:53 PM
There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben)
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Sarahli-This is very good info you have come across. I had no idea of this but look at the names. This is big. IF these are the very same dudes testifying now, then this info you found could be why these two have been called as expert witnesses. Exposure of corruption? smiley_spiderQuote"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. "His findings had a huge impact on the field." He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.
Here is some media on Dr. Steven Shafer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/conrad-murray-trial-testi_n_1019560.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/conrad-murray-trial-testi_n_1019560.html)
P.S. Happy Birthday paula-c. party/
Not only this, where is the credibility of the media? We are all watching a trial loaded with manipulated evidence, contradictory testimony, forged photos, and to say to the police investigation.
Justice you could lose all its credibility in the eyes of public opinion.
thanks Im_convincedmjalive beerchug
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 27, 2011, 10:12:01 PM
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube] http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
Post by: Andrea on October 27, 2011, 10:17:25 PM
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Post by: Andrea on October 27, 2011, 10:18:21 PM
Post by: mjaliveomg on October 27, 2011, 10:32:07 PM
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
why tmz didnt report this? confused/
Post by: Andrea on October 27, 2011, 10:33:31 PM
Post by: monstertooty on October 27, 2011, 10:39:25 PM
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with :lol: or lolol/ or party/ while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?" WTF??
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! :) I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile ;D Love you all..... Toot.
Post by: Vietnow on October 27, 2011, 10:41:46 PM
If this video is actually Murray....I can see a delay in the trial, perhaps.
Yes, definitely a delay. And how ironic is it that this happened when the trial is oh so close to being over. I understand why they would cover his face because of the rabid paparazzi, but it's just so weird...lol. Looks like it all took place outside the courthouse?
Something doesn't seem right, and it's probably all part of MJ's ultimate plan. 8)
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 27, 2011, 10:45:42 PM
Hope indeed that it's part of the script.
So Lee says there's a virus in the room, La Toya is sick and Murray to the hospital? hmmmm.
Post by: Andrea on October 27, 2011, 10:49:12 PM
Murray to the hospital? It is his tie on that sheet..
Hope indeed that it's part of the script.
So Lee says there's a virus in the room, La Toya is sick and Murray to the hospital? hmmmm.
Yes, it seems very...medical...(sting related?)
Of course the ultimate irony of this would be if Murray had to undergo a procedure and be given propofol.
Post by: Vietnow on October 27, 2011, 10:55:38 PM
Murray to the hospital? It is his tie on that sheet..
Hope indeed that it's part of the script.
So Lee says there's a virus in the room, La Toya is sick and Murray to the hospital? hmmmm.
Yes, it seems very...medical...(sting related?)
Of course the ultimate irony of this would be if Murray had to undergo a procedure and be given propofol.
Another ultimate scenario would be if Murray "dies".... afraid/
That would be a huge shock, and of course I'm only speculating. :)
Post by: monstertooty on October 27, 2011, 10:56:26 PM
Post by: Mish1981 on October 27, 2011, 10:56:59 PM
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
Post by: Vietnow on October 27, 2011, 11:02:12 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th9Jcnn_DYQ[/youtube]
Post by: BeTheChange on October 27, 2011, 11:14:03 PM
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
Maybe Murray will show up in pj's lol.
Seriously... WTF?? is going on??? You would think that this would be plastered all over the news, regardless if it is part of the hoax...especially TMZ and HLN but there's only this video. The youtube acct has some interesting vids...but don't know what to make of this one.
On the youtube vid page, someone commented about the sunflower at :19. I'm sure time will tell if this vid is legit.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 27, 2011, 11:49:31 PM
I fell off my sofa when he said that to Dr White, the look on Murray and Dr White's face was PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
same here!!!!!!!! my goodness didnt expect that. almost died! /woohoo/
btw, thanks applehead for posting that video. very interesting interview indeed.
Seriously though, I hope this is part of the script and that Murray is ok. :|
i second that... hopefully the fact that LJ is also out of court indicated that it is a planned break in filming... suspicious//
@paula, i don't celebrate birthdays, but just wanted to express to you that i hope you had a great day and that this year is everything you wish for. penguin/
Post by: The Little Mermaid on October 28, 2011, 12:05:22 AM
Hey guys I'm not sure where to post this, and Souza...feel free to move it, but I thought some of you may be interested in watching this...if you haven't already.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th9Jcnn_DYQ[/youtube]
O____O!!!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 12:09:26 AM
I hope he didn't have a heart attack for crying so much in court errrr
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 12:10:58 AM
bearhug
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 12:46:27 AM
Of course it is very risky but who knows?
Post by: Grace on October 28, 2011, 12:46:35 AM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 28, 2011, 12:49:46 AM
Hey guys I'm not sure where to post this, and Souza...feel free to move it, but I thought some of you may be interested in watching this...if you haven't already.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th9Jcnn_DYQ[/youtube]
O____O!!!
hey all, have watched this video apparently capture in france many a time on YT and personally am unsure how i feel about it. (my issue is I am unsure when it was recorded - i know it claims to be 2011. second issue unsure if an imperonator) suspicious//
hence, just wondering as i am curious to read thoguhts of other believers on the forum, has this video been discussed and where abouts might i find the thread.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 28, 2011, 12:52:24 AM
Post by: wishingstar on October 28, 2011, 12:57:24 AM
Many blessings
Post by: fatalkiss26 on October 28, 2011, 01:00:55 AM
Was Doc Murray brought to UCLA?
I hope so, he can get the same treatment as Michael did :P
Post by: Adi on October 28, 2011, 01:01:24 AM
If this is not real then.... OMG! I just feel the parallels to the 2005 trial even more.....Michael having to go to hospital and the ass of a judge ordering him to court ASAP, so he had to turn up wearing his pj bottoms. The footage also kind of reminds me of when Michael was taken away in the ambulance after the Pepsi burn when he had most of his head wrapped in bandages, although his face was visible, unlike in this video where we can't see Dr M's face at all.
Weird - last night I was telling my husband about the parallels of this Dr Murray trial to Michael's 2005 trial and how Dr Murray is metaphorically representing what happened to Michael in that trial and he said maybe Dr Murray should go to hospital and then be made to turn up in his pj bottoms!!!!!! Well I guess that is yet to be seen if he does.......
I wonder if this is really true...no major news outlets are reporting it...nor is TMZ which is always 1st on the scene with anything to do with MJ.
Post by: applehead250609 on October 28, 2011, 01:29:37 AM
Quote
I feel the need to address something before it becomes an issue. Every day, during court testimony, many of us watch the trial via the live feed provided by this site (thank you for that BTW). I for one watch in order to find clues about the hoax, share perspective, learn and enjoy myself doing so.
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with or or while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?"
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile Love you all..... Toot.
Thank you very much for your post my friend,I feel everything you just WROTE.I remember the first time I LAUGHED like a nut geek/,and that was during THIS IS IT.I was at the cinema and I bet that people around me thought I was crazy.In a way I knew he is ALIVE and you have to admit that in the movie were some jokes and insinuations that only we his fans knows about.Michael is a nuty lol and he likes to LAUGH and to be TEASED.We know it and Brooke Shields already told us at the Memorial.
So don't be afraid to BE YOURSELF and stay the way you are,you are BEAUTIFUL,inside and outside,don't let people's change you :).And if you want to LAUGH once again here is Brett Ratner talking about Michael and his little pranks,lol :lol: .Recently he was at Jimmy Kimmel show.
Brett Ratner on Jimmy Kimmel Live PART 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9apPPGjPNLU&feature=feedlik
[/youtube]
LOVE
Post by: ForstAMoon on October 28, 2011, 01:37:01 AM
why is his tie between his legs WTF?? ?
I hope he didn't have a heart attack for crying so much in court errrr
If this happened on 27th, then Murray had a different tie in the court. I remember commenting his tie actually in the chat.
I do not believe it was Murray. Why the hell they covered his face? Seems fake for me, and the only proof it was Murray was someone screaming?
Post by: Vietnow on October 28, 2011, 01:46:38 AM
And if you want to LAUGH once again here is Brett Ratner talking about Michael and his little pranks,lol :lol: .Recently he was at Jimmy Kimmel show.
[/b][/size]
Brett Ratner on Jimmy Kimmel Live PART 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9apPPGjPNLU&feature=feedlik
[/youtube]
LOVE
That was a great interview. Michael was an amazing person to be around. He needed more real FRIENDS in his life. Sucks that the ones who used him for profit drove him overboard.
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 28, 2011, 02:05:03 AM
Did anyone catch Flanagan mention "the elephant in the room"? Lol
Yep :lol:
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on October 28, 2011, 02:19:00 AM
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
why tmz didnt report this? confused/
bangbang
Post by: scorpionchik on October 28, 2011, 02:32:13 AM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 28, 2011, 02:34:26 AM
Post by: bec on October 28, 2011, 02:40:07 AM
And Ps. @Monster: yes, but it never ends. Hour after hour after hour flooding the chat. Gets old, you knowz?
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 28, 2011, 02:48:02 AM
It's just surreal. I feel silly :lol: Whatever happened, what an
adventure it is! What's real, what's not. All the evils ..exposed? Not? Wonder
what today brings!
Post by: jono on October 28, 2011, 02:50:11 AM
monstertooty:QuoteI feel the need to address something before it becomes an issue. Every day, during court testimony, many of us watch the trial via the live feed provided by this site (thank you for that BTW). I for one watch in order to find clues about the hoax, share perspective, learn and enjoy myself doing so.
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with or or while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?"
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile Love you all..... Toot.
Thank you very much for your post my friend,I feel everything you just WROTE.I remember the first time I LAUGHED like a nuts,and that was during THIS IS IT.I was at the cinema and I bet that people around me thought I was crazy.In a way I knew he is ALIVE and you have to admit that in the movie were some jokes and insinuations that only we his fans knows about.Michael is a nuty lol and he likes to LAUGH and to be TEASED.We know it and Brooke Shields already told us at the Memorial.
So don't be afraid to BE YOURSELF and stay the way you are,you are BEAUTIFUL,inside and outside,don't let people's change you :) .And if you want to LAUGH once again here is Brett Ratner talking about Michael and his little pranks,lol :lol: .Recently he was at Jimmy Kimmel show.
Brett Ratner on Jimmy Kimmel Live PART 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9apPPGjPNLU&feature=feedlik
[/youtube]
LOVE
How can you not love Mike?? Just hilarious! :lol:
We should do more stuff like that! lolol/
Post by: Vietnow on October 28, 2011, 02:55:02 AM
How can you not love Mike?? Just hilarious! :lol:
We should do more stuff like that! lolol/
I've had MORE than my fair share of throwing water balloons. So I know exactly what he was describing.
Post by: MJonmind on October 28, 2011, 03:13:58 AM
Quote
The longest recorded period without sleep is an astounding 33 years, performed by 64 year old Vietnamese man named Thai Ngoc, who claims to have lost his need for sleep after a sickness in the 70′s. Surprisingly, he experiences no ill negative effects from this condition, not even the normal sleep deprivation effects such as fatigue, loss of concentration, and so on. Under normal circumstances, people who lose even a few days of sleep start exhibiting cognitive symptoms usually only present in senior citizens.http://www.mindupdate.com/2007/04/the-mystery-of-sleep-and-the-lucky-few-who-dont-need-it/
Scientists have found a gene that could be responsible for needing less sleep, which they call “Period 3″ or the “Clock Gene”. While most humans need an average of 8 hours of sleep, people with specific variants of the Period 3 gene seem need to much less – sometimes as little as 4 hours of sleep a night. Many notable people through history have claimed to need less sleep – Michelangelo, Napoleon, Thomas Edison all claim to have only needed 4 hours of sleep a night. In modern days, Madonna, Jay Leno, Margaret Thatcher and many others say the same thing. It seems to be more prevalent in highly ambitious, driven individuals.
Monstertooty, I've laughed pretty hard during chat, and yes I agree that MJ's humor is pretty...well guyish! He's put his adorable humor all over the place these 2 years!
And I love all the stand-up people here too! "Laughter doeth good like a medicine." Proverbs 17:22. MJ-medicine has made me feel a whole better! /cook/ and I am most grateful! bow/ michael-jackson/
Edit: Your post reminded me of one scene in the video of Michael visiting Gary in 2003 where a a lady asks him to sign these balls! :lol: Watch at 9:14.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ1cHQpsiTs&feature=related[/youtube]
I don't think Murray went to the hospital from anxiety and sadness (tears). I think he was busting his gut laughing so hard at the "elephant in the room" comment. I'm so amazed knowing this is all a hoax-court (well maybe some sting too), that they can all keep a straight face. I see glimmers of smiles especially the judge, and maybe the camera swings away whenever someone loses it. ALL the people in there should receive Oscars! /bravo/
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 28, 2011, 03:28:02 AM
Another ultimate scenario would be if Murray "dies".... afraid/
That would be a huge shock, and of course I'm only speculating. :)
maybe CM fake his death...
joke.. lolol/
Post by: applehead250609 on October 28, 2011, 03:31:20 AM
why is his tie between his legs WTF?? ?
I hope he didn't have a heart attack for crying so much in court errrr
If this happened on 27th, then Murray had a different tie in the court. I remember commenting his tie actually in the chat.
I do not believe it was Murray. Why the hell they covered his face? Seems fake for me, and the only proof it was Murray was someone screaming?
Yes ForstAMoon I remember also,I was in the chat exactly at that moment.It's pretty clear to me that is not the same TIE ,lol :lol:, watch here and compare,and maybe this is about:What's the Big Frigin' Difference?! ANYONE?????
DR Murray goes to the hospital. I wonder if that is ambulance 71?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=player_embedded
[/youtube]
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 19, part 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlDTrSIHUtQ&feature=channel_video_title
[/youtube]
Call me CRAZY lol,but I 'm positive that this is a TIE ;) ,betewn this TRIAL and 2005 TRIAL. I said and I will say again this is a MIRRORED trial to the one from 2005 8-) .There's always two sides to every story
Remember that in 2005 Michael used to have different TIES every single day,like he was at some kind of SHOW/PARADE??? He was dressed like a KING ,for the PERFECT SHOW.No DRESS rehearsal,it was All LIvE !!!! ;) You just have to READ BETEWN the LInES ,lol ,just like LATOYA said :lol: :lol:
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l069fjUbYU1qa26dno1_500.jpg)
(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7bw90Mn7a1qb9vkco1_500.jpg)
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8g5dd23Om1qa26dno1_500.jpg)
Michael LOVES "TIES",and so does MURRAY,lol !!!!!
(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lohr26dXzc1qjcz0so1_500.gif)
L.O.V.E.
Post by: MJonmind on October 28, 2011, 04:02:36 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDzC2U_eKNk&feature=related[/youtube]
I also want to comment on that bearded guy who looks very strange and suspicious talking in circles, with his Front-like word "enchalada" and Back-like "going for the throat" (jugular). Who is he really? Applehead, where do you find all these vids, pics, etc.?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRaNrf4DS0&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Sarahli, your post on Scott S. Reuben,
Quote
other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller.
I found this interesting for more personal reasons. My husband has had rhumatoid arthritis for almost 40 years in most joints. He took Vioxx for years till they pulled it off the shelf saying it was linked to heart attacks. Since then he's taken Celebrex and this last 3 months has gone off all meds. With winter coming he'll have to go back on it eventually to keep working. With the billions of dollars going into research they can never seem to find a cure, just the same old, same old crap to take the edge off the pain, and keep people dependant for the rest of their lives. I think these pharmaceutical companies buy off researchers who find cures. :evil:
Post by: simalves on October 28, 2011, 05:19:21 AM
Post by: Suzy7 on October 28, 2011, 05:26:18 AM
Probably a hoax. All those people would have had to have been "in on it" though, but why?
Post by: reveron1958 on October 28, 2011, 05:32:20 AM
http://bossip.com/182232/you-must-be-kidding-dr-conrad-murder-murray-back-at-work-today/
(http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/murray-mugshot1.jpg?w=450&h=350)
Is this the same Murry? I thought he had a different name before?
Sorry if this is old.
I found this too...
http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2009/07/conrad-murrays-record-reveals-liens.html
Post by: trublu on October 28, 2011, 05:39:26 AM
:lol:
Post by: jono on October 28, 2011, 05:40:09 AM
The butterfly /bravo/
It's the same as on the Michael album.. Good find!
/bravo/
Post by: Suzy7 on October 28, 2011, 05:47:17 AM
@trublu I agree :/ lol
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 07:22:19 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ1cHQpsiTs&feature=related[/youtube]
I like watching him acting so royal when he's in public :mrgreen: .
May I give you a hug your majesty bearhug
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 07:27:19 AM
I also want to comment on that bearded guy who looks very strange and suspicious talking in circles, with his Front-like word "enchalada" and Back-like "going for the throat" (jugular). Who is he really? Applehead, where do you find all these vids, pics, etc.?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRaNrf4DS0&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Isn't it obvious, he must be Front :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Souza you can have him geek/
Post by: RK on October 28, 2011, 08:01:55 AM
He bares an uncanny resemblance to the father of modern hoaxes Joey Skaggs, or is it only the superficial facial hair?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRaNrf4DS0&feature=player_embedded[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4daqugkHY&feature=related[/youtube]
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 28, 2011, 08:08:41 AM
I feel the need to address something before it becomes an issue. Every day, during court testimony, many of us watch the trial via the live feed provided by this site (thank you for that BTW). I for one watch in order to find clues about the hoax, share perspective, learn and enjoy myself doing so.
There are times when the conversation in the chat room becomes jovial, immature and even R-rated. Some do not care much for conversation and would rather just watch and listen to the trial without distraction and I can respect that.
There is nothing wrong with :lol: or lolol/ or party/ while we converse about we all have an intrest in. We all came here in different ways. Some have known all along that this is a hoax while others are just now "waking up" to it. However we got here, we are all aware that something is happening and that we want to know more.
Michael Jackson, along with my family, friends and life experiance, taught me to be myself and be okay with it. To be a child at heart and to laugh when I want to is my right as a soul carrying human being and I choose to share that with others. Laughter has seen me through many a struggle and will continue to do so. "Why so serious?" WTF??
My intellect and respect for Michael has been called into question and this post is my response.
Intellect is relative so there is no point in discussing it. Respect for Michael is another matter entirely. I laugh when i seen an elephant in a courtroom and then say, "hey that elephant has a big ass" or something. Does anyone honestly think that the only reason there are elephants in the courtroom is to compel us to do research on why it's there (which i do)? NO. It's also funny as hell. "Michael has balls filled with botox." Someone in chat said that today during testimony. THAT is funny as hell! :) I could go on but I think I made my point. Respect for Michael and his work is not solely based on purchasing it. It is also shown through appreciation for the time and effort put forth by him whether it be for entertainment or enlightenment. We are blessed that we recieve both from him. He wants us to laugh and joke and love and play and be happy....right? Isn't that why we are here?
I look forward to the conversation with my new friends everyday. I smile and laugh and truly treasure the time that I am lucky enough to share with them. if I offend someone i will surely apologize but I will not be sorry for enjoying myself.
@Michael @peterpan @davedave....whoever the hell you are.....Thank you for reminding me to smile ;D Love you all..... Toot.
Tooty….. I love and respect you as part of my MJ Family, and I have to say that I have so very much enjoyed watching the trial with my MJ Family and being able to comment and look for keys & clues throughout every day’s trial broadcast with you and our other family members. But as of the last few days I have found myself very uncomfortable at times with the direction the chat has taken, and with the speed that the chat goes. It’s become so hard to even keep up with all the jokes and videos being posted to chat. It seems at times the hoax discussion has went from hoax related chat to a lot of sexual innuendos and jokes. I am not a prude, but I feel there is a time and place for that kind of talk and behavior. On our public chat where there is at least one known member who is a very young teen and we have no idea how many others are under Anon’s nicks, I feel that this kind of chat is very inappropriate. I’m all for fun and humor, but some of the things said is just downright raunchy in my opinion.
I’m not saying this to be hurtful in any way, it just my feelings! And I say it with love and respect. Even though there were comments made yesterday that ‘you can say or doing anything and it’s OK as long as you follow it with It’s all for LOVE” When I say I love and appreciate all of you I really do mean it and I don’t say those words lightly or with no meaning or emotion behind them, there are not empty words for me! I am sorry if this offends anyone, as it is not meant that way. I just felt I needed to comment and voice my feelings and thoughts.
Much LOVE, Blessings, and bearhug to you All!!
Post by: Grace on October 28, 2011, 08:59:50 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=player_embedded)
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 28, 2011, 09:02:15 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 28, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Hmmm...'Murray should spill the beans'. The 'media' keep reporting that Dr. White is most likely the last defense witness and they also keep suggesting that Murray is NOT taking the stand....both may very well end up being true. But it would be SUPER afraid/ if just when everyone thinks it's over, Murray is called to the stand and DOES spill the beans! That would sure be a show (and heart) stopper :lol:
Guess we'll know soon enough.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @Souza...makes sense, with that all-important one day of 'simmering' ;)
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 28, 2011, 09:15:18 AM
@ bethechange.... if CM takes stand and spills beans you would have to agree that the story would only be able to be verified by BAM... or perhaps the family would verify CMs statement if he did use stand to spill beans.... what do you imagine?
this is all hyperthetical of course...
Post by: BeTheChange on October 28, 2011, 09:46:32 AM
As for Murray taking the stand...I would imagine that if he does, the trial won't end today or Monday. I'm sure he'd be on there for a few days...so that would work against the 'theory' of getting a verdict on Halloween (which does make 'sense' hoaxwise). But if he were to take the stand and shock us all lol...I agree that either a BAM or family would have to corroborate his 'beans' :lol: .
The 'suspense' is killing me /woohoo/ ...I just hope it ends with a bang!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 28, 2011, 10:23:25 AM
OMG! WTF?? /bravo/
Tooty- your post was great and it described the way I feel completely. Not this one, the one before this one LOL.
For those who don't personally know me (which is every single one of you) I have a very dry, sarcastic sense of humor. I've been a tree climbing (and falling out of), rough housing, anti-girly girl all my life. I make jokes with no intentions of hurting anyone's feelings. but I get a little kick out of teasing people a little. There are many uptight, stiff upper lip people in this world and tooty and I are the kind of nuts who keep things balanced. If everyone was so serious, I doubt Mike would even want to come back. I know I wouldn't.
Its a live chat, there are some things said that you just can't take back (not that I would). I understand some of you are older with kids who talk like us (your kids are awesome) and you don't "get" why we are so vulgar sometimes in chat. We say "fart" and "poop" and "balls". AHHHHHH!!!! Oh no!! We have been so endoctrinated to chose our words carefully. All of this political correctness bores me *yawn*. I'm a lost boy (girl) by heart, and I refuse to grow up and become stale and emotionless.
PS- This is a hoax. Its synonyms are prank, joke and trick. I love everyone of you, lets laugh together.
If I ever offend any of you, just tell me to SHUT UP! lol, it won't hurt my feelings and I won't hold a grudge against you. I am completely free in my immaturity!
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
Once again, there are NO coincidences!!!
/toldya/
LMAO, I feel bad they have to cram all that tallness into the ambo.
Post by: curls on October 28, 2011, 10:38:05 AM
I don't have a problem with a bit of 'off topic' banter in the breaks, but I have to say it's frustrating when some appear not to be paying any attention to what's going on in court, and comments of those who are, are many times overlooked in the speed and tone of that type of chat.
Most of the time I have to say, I watch full screen on TMZ or Red Carpet and just click back to chat in the breaks or when something mega happens, as I find chat going on at the side quite distracting!
I'm sure we can all watch and chat happily together with perhaps a little more thought. xxx
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 28, 2011, 10:50:30 AM
http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)
OMG! What is going on? Murry goes to the hospital? [youtube]http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU (http://youtu.be/zdooR1NBtlU)[/youtube]
Why is it I can never get YT vids to post on this new forum? /pull hair/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR1NBtlU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Whaaaa? LOL?
MsTrinity, are you clicking the youtube button and pasting the link in between?
Question - Did White finish his testimony today? If he didn't and there is court tomorrow I wonder if this is a replay of 2005 when Michael was told to leave the hospital to get to court. It will be interesting to see if Murray is still in the hospital tomorrow morning and what the judge will do? Will he make Murray come to court regardless or will he postpone court until Murray is well enough to return?
IF this has nothing to do with the hoax, I hope everything is alright with Murray!
Maybe Murray will show up in pj's lol.
Seriously... WTF?? is going on??? You would think that this would be plastered all over the news, regardless if it is part of the hoax...especially TMZ and HLN but there's only this video. The youtube acct has some interesting vids...but don't know what to make of this one.
On the youtube vid page, someone commented about the sunflower at :19. I'm sure time will tell if this vid is legit.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Yes Andrea I did :lol: Several times but it kept saying invalid link... /white flag/
@ Mish & BeTheChange I had the same thoughts! Anxiety attack? Pajama Day?
I didn't see it till someone on FB pointed it out... @ time sig 0:32 The SUNFLOWER appears then disappears... At first I thought the guy was just holding it; but you can see it come & go in a flash so it looks like someone is messing with us lolol/ That and the Orange tie & pumpkin in the court room...Happy Halloween?!
Not to mention the Elephant in the courtroom comment. What a day! /judge/
Post by: Grace on October 28, 2011, 11:08:03 AM
I don't have a problem with a bit of 'off topic' banter in the breaks, but I have to say it's frustrating when some appear not to be paying any attention to what's going on in court, and comments of those who are, are many times overlooked in the speed and tone of that type of chat.
Seconded.
We are not only here to make fun of the characters in this play.
We know that there are messages, hints and bounces into the direction Michael wants to go.
If the trial would not be important, there wouldn't be any.
It seems Michael even responds to our wishes. Doc Murray was seen smiling and we had asked for this.
We wanted pumpkin and we got it.
The trial is a masterpiece of performance art and I would think it would be a pity if we would not pay attention to its detailed script but clown along. Jokes are fine once in a while but the purpose of the availability of this chatroom is not jokes but exchange of observations about the trial.
As to some dirty talk: we had that discussion on the goldpants' thread as well.
For those who don't believe that we do have minors on board: we do and this is the case since the first day MJHD started and since the first day Souza established this forum. It would only be fair to refrain from making this an adult forum. Michael is an inspiration for everybody and everybody is welcome here, minors included.
I think if we meet in the middle like we did before, everybody can and will be happy.
For those who prefer to exchange 100% fun and dirty talk, PM is certainly offering an appropriate space for that.
Can we please go back to observing, enjoying and discussing the trial?
Blessings.
Post by: paula-c on October 28, 2011, 11:12:56 AM
Rumour - Conrad Murray attempted suicide!
Early reports just coming in, and this seems to be all over Twitter. It looks like Murray has attempted suicide and has been taken to the hospital.
Awaiting confirmation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdooR...layer_embedded
If all else fails, pulls the SYMPATHY card .....
It's not confirmed, although it's all over Twitter, and Facebook
If this is true then whoa. But until these rumours are confirmed then I'm not saying much else.
Looks very fake and if he did so what
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/119775-Rumour-Conrad-Murray-attempted-suicide!
Family of Michael Jackson Fear suicide of the singer if he is convicted ... which reminds them this?
Post by: MsTrinity333 on October 28, 2011, 11:22:07 AM
Again...coming up as an invalid YT link EVERY TIME I post I've tried everything. /scream/ >:(
/toldya/
Post by: Tink.I.Am on October 28, 2011, 11:49:40 AM
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 28, 2011, 12:17:06 PM
did you all notice the conrad W Murray not the correct Conrad R Murray?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
Yes haha! Its just one of those things, ya know?
They've had two years to correct any typos or mistakes. R and W are seperated by "E" on the keyboard, so I hardly believe it was an accident. Conwad Wobewt Muwway has nothing to worry about.
Post by: Adi on October 28, 2011, 12:21:58 PM
did you all notice the conrad W Murray not the correct Conrad R Murray?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
Yep saw that!!!! I think that was a pretty significant moment actually.
Reminded me of the MichEAL spelling and the missing N etc
Post by: Suzy7 on October 28, 2011, 01:38:30 PM
Post by: trublu on October 28, 2011, 01:46:13 PM
Post by: Bianca28 on October 28, 2011, 01:46:35 PM
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
Post by: iamamjbeliever on October 28, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
Souza is TS
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 28, 2011, 02:09:06 PM
Wow, what a 'coincidence' :mrgreen: (unless Murray really is hurt, I hope he's okay)
On another note...
TS!! *pokepoke* its october 28th. /toldya/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 28, 2011, 02:17:41 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 28, 2011, 02:41:29 PM
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
Souza is TS
LMAO, last time I checked I was a girl. But I don't mind, I see it as a compliment.
Post by: PureLove on October 28, 2011, 03:06:49 PM
OMG!
What happened to Murray? Did he die or what? Why did they cover his face???
lolol/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 03:44:54 PM
You know, I am busy uploading all the videos of the testimonies, and I noticed that this will be day 20. The defense is most likely going to rest its case today and if we add one day for the verdict (Monday, Halloween?? 333 weeks after MJ's verdict??) we get 21 days. How coincidental that that makes 3 x 7 or as we say: 777. lolol/You were right Souza. Let's see what monday will bring ::P
Souza is TS
Whaaaaaaaaat errrr ???????????????
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 03:46:03 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 28, 2011, 03:47:01 PM
P.S. Are we even sure that's Murray? The video was put up yesterday, and TMZ hasn't said anything about this. I googled, and nothing came up about Murray being in the hospital... suspicious//
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 03:48:37 PM
Gina, Souza is not TS. :lol: ♫ Don't believe everything you hear ♪
..are you sure :P...?
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 28, 2011, 03:48:50 PM
Defense did not rest their case today. Dr. White will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. lolol/
Why did they quit early today? I have laptop issues which means that it decides to shut off at moments it should not, so I didn't get the last part. Zo that means no verdict on Monday. What happens after White's testimony? Closing arguments? Maybe the defense's new tactic will be that they will claim Mike never died at all, hahahaha. So new guess: verdict on November the 4th? I would pick November the 5th, but that's a Saturday.
Hey TS, I will bake you some cookies if you give us a little hint, or an apple pie, or stroopwafels... (my new tactic, does it work?)
Post by: PureLove on October 28, 2011, 03:52:53 PM
party/
(http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020328.gif)
(http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/0002025D.gif)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 03:55:35 PM
Of course, it was difficult to follow the trial because of the language barrier, it's not that I don't understand but I can't "receive" the complete message after just 1 time listening of the testimonies.
I am hoping the closing arguments will summarize the proofs because right now there's a blurr in my head about what's drama and what's proof in this trial /pull hair/.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 03:57:54 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on October 28, 2011, 04:04:26 PM
Defense did not rest their case today. Dr. White will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. lolol/
Why did they quit early today? I have laptop issues which means that it decides to shut off at moments it should not, so I didn't get the last part. Zo that means no verdict on Monday. What happens after White's testimony? Closing arguments? Maybe the defense's new tactic will be that they will claim Mike never died at all, hahahaha. So new guess: verdict on November the 4th? I would pick November the 5th, but that's a Saturday.
Hey TS, I will bake you some cookies if you give us a little hint, or an apple pie, or stroopwafels... (my new tactic, does it work?)
Them ending early today really sucked...I'm not sure what I was expecting today, but it fell short lol. Anyhow, the reason given (from my understanding) for them ending early is because the defense has presented 'new' scenarios cooked up by Dr. White (I think all those charts they showed today--similar to what Shafer did)...and the prosecution needs/wants more time to analyze them before cross.
This whole trial is a real doozy...some of the weirdest things I've ever seen have happened in this trial.
If it helps in anyway...I can add to the baking. Name your poison TS...we'll get cooking.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 28, 2011, 04:27:54 PM
Harvey and Charles think the closing arguments will be interesting. They have to be, at least the defense's, since they changed their story in between. Let's see what happens. I'll be home around 11:15 am PT, so I hope won't miss the good stuff (yes that is a hint and a request... lolol/ )
BTW: you really should watch today's TMZ live as soon as they uploaded it. very interesting topic: the involvement of the CIA in the JFK murder.
Post by: Bianca28 on October 28, 2011, 04:52:53 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 28, 2011, 04:58:50 PM
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Post by: fordtocarr on October 28, 2011, 05:22:34 PM
abc7MurrayTrial (http://twitter.com/#%21/abc7MurrayTrial) ABC7 Murray Trial Chernoff told the judge he has never experienced anything like the jury charges he's seeing. He says it's very detailed and specific.
Judge: (there is) seemingly no end 2 the case when it comes to the defense and potential rebuttal, potential surrebutal. I need 2 move this! abc7MurrayTrial (http://twitter.com/#%21/abc7MurrayTrial) ABC7 Murray Trial Judge admonished attorneys that he expects attorneys to be in communication over the weekend and cannot have continuing issues w/ discovery.
shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this won't work!!!!!!!!!!!!
check these out yourself....there's more
http://twitter.com/#!/abc7MurrayTrialhttp:// (http://twitter.com/#%21/abc7MurrayTrialhttp://)
Post by: fordtocarr on October 28, 2011, 05:37:12 PM
They just said on TMZ Live that (depending on how long the cross will take) that closing arguments will be as early as Monday as well and that the case will go to the jury on tuesday.
Harvey and Charles think the closing arguments will be interesting. They have to be, at least the defense's, since they changed their story in between. Let's see what happens. I'll be home around 11:15 am PT, so I hope won't miss the good stuff (yes that is a hint and a request... lolol/ )
BTW: you really should watch today's TMZ live as soon as they uploaded it. very interesting topic: the involvement of the CIA in the JFK murder.
I can't watch it with this blasted satellite :( I'll be looking forward to anything you can remember from it.
Also, that post I put up before yours, has a lot of GREAT trial info from the local news team covering it in court!! You'll like the tweets if you don't know it all already!
Post by: wishingstar on October 28, 2011, 05:39:11 PM
*I vote for the bearded guy being Souza....sorry Souza, what can I say mj_bad/
Blessings
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 28, 2011, 05:46:40 PM
Just one thing and I go to sleep.
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
(http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif) yes , michael does have veins :shock:
Post by: Elsa on October 28, 2011, 05:53:57 PM
From TS Update #4C
"First, the call was received at exactly 12:21, and 4 seconds; you can see this in the centre of the computer screen {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254 (http://http//michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=254); http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Jackson)}. You can be sure that emergency facilities have their time very accurate, down to the second. Also, most cell phones today have very accurate time set automatically; so it was easy for the 911 caller to know the exact time."
First: TS clearly says that the 911 call was RECEIVED at 12:21 as shown by the picture on the computer screen. So the time is out there and has been from the beginning and so is all the related numerology along with it. Forget the 12:20...it's a distraction in my opinion. Maybe included in the testimony to cause debate like this...to make us begin second guessing ourselves and what has been found.
TS said also this and I still don't understand, because I clearily see a different timeline.
So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect, for when [/color]the 911 operator would receive the call[/b].This does not mean that the exact second was planned; it would be difficult to get the call through on a specific second. However, the exact minute was planned; and as soon as the planned minute arrived, the call was placed. This explains why the 911 call was not made earlier.
This is what I don't understand. He deffinitelly said that the person who called obviously waited until 12:21 and he did not make the call earlier - not 12:20:18, no 12:20:46, but 12:21 and then pressed the call button. I'm not bashing nor anything, I simply want to understand because for me this doesn't look right
Maybe TS refers to the illusion of the call and the record shown in the trial is how the call was created. The 911 call isn't real, so why did it need to be made from the bedroom, in the house, at a specific time?
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 28, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
Defense did not rest their case today. Dr. White will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. The bearded dude in the video knows this case as good as IF he is a hoaxer. I loved his testimony. Enchilada! lolol/
perhaps beardman is a member here smiley_spider
if yes, woo hoo. i love him, he is hilarious! /woohoo/
I don't have a problem with a bit of 'off topic' banter in the breaks, but I have to say it's frustrating when some appear not to be paying any attention to what's going on in court, and comments of those who are, are many times overlooked in the speed and tone of that type of chat.
Most of the time I have to say, I watch full screen on TMZ or Red Carpet and just click back to chat in the breaks or when something mega happens, as I find chat going on at the side quite distracting!
I'm sure we can all watch and chat happily together with perhaps a little more thought. xxx
for the most part i have stopped chatting... so true, some important comments i have been interested in have been lost amongst idle banter. hate to be a stick in the mud, but would love to see some monitoring in chat when trial is on. but i know all the mods already have their hands full and it also shouldnt have to come to that. a little discretion, a little maturity and a little respect and thought for others would be greatly recieved.
re: murray (if that was him and if it was a suicide attempt or a alledeged illness)
what a quaint and timely little stunt that was....
Post by: MissG on October 28, 2011, 06:22:52 PM
Post by: paula-c on October 28, 2011, 07:39:58 PM
"We are past the date I told you your services would be over," Judge Michael Pastor said. "But I know all of you understand that things happen in cases... I recognize the sacrifices you're making. So please continue to hang in there and enjoy your weekend."
During a chambers meeting with lawyers on Thursday, prosecutor David Walgren asked the judge for more time to consider new evidence submitted by the defense. The evidence includes new simulations from defense expert Dr. Paul White, which show the possible effects of the drugs that were in Michael Jackson's system the day he died.
Walgren called the graphs of the new simulations, "hieroglyphics."
Judge Pastor acknowledged Walgren's concerns, but said he's worried about changing the schedule because the jurors have lives and commitments outside of the trial. Walgren said that losing jurors to scheduling conflicts is a risk the state is prepared to take.
Judge Pastor granted the state to begin their cross examination of Dr. White on Monday, giving them the weekend to examine the new defense evidence.
Once Dr. White's testimony is concluded, we expect that the defense will rest. After the defense rests, the prosecution will likely present some sort of rebuttal case.
If things go more quickly than anticipated, closings in the trial could still be Monday. That scenario, however, now seems remote.
If testimony continues into or concludes on Monday – which is certainly possible – then closings in the case could be Tuesday.
But it's also possible that Tuesday could be a dark day, to give the attorneys time to prepare their closing arguments. If that happens, then closings would be delivered on Wednesday.
Complete courtroom coverage of the Conrad Murray trial airs live on HLN (http://www.twitter.com/HLNtv) from gavel to gavel. It’s also on In Session (http://www.twitter.com/InSession) on truTV from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. ET every weekday.
Posted by: In Session's Graham Winch (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/tag/in-sessions-graham-winch/)
Filed under: Conrad Murray (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/category/conrad-murray/) • Evidence (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/category/conrad-murray/evidence/) • Testimony (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/category/conrad-murray/testimony/) • Witnesses (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/category/conrad-murray/witnesses/)
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/28/judge-trial-is-taking-too-long/ (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/28/judge-trial-is-taking-too-long/)
Happy Birthdays MJ_ForeverandAlways beerchug
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on October 28, 2011, 09:44:55 PM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY to MJ_ForeverandAlways. I hope you have an amazing day sweety. I Love You. bearhug
party/
(http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020328.gif)
(http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/0002025D.gif)
[/quoteOctober 28, 2011
Happy Birthdays MJ_ForeverandAlways beerchug
Thank you PureLove & Paula-C for the Birthday wishes.....They really mean a lot to me!! I Love you all..... with all my heart!! bearhug
Post by: wishingstar on October 28, 2011, 10:07:27 PM
Make a special wish on the next wishingstar of the evening, I will be thinking of you with LOVE.
Blessings to you both always,
Wishingstar
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 28, 2011, 10:08:49 PM
Walgren said on Monday he will take ALL DAY with questioning Dr.White
Then we have possible rebuttal witnesses by the defense and the prosecution
Then we have closing arguments and the judge said he doesn't want any more surprises and wants to get this trial moving...so all this will possibly take two days, I guess (Mon and Tue) or possibly 3, then the jury will deliberate, but for how long do you think that will take them?...I really thought we would have a verdict for Halloween being a 'special day' and all...I guess we will see something happen on Halloween since we will have no verdict by then.
Also why did they stop White's testimony?, Flann hadn't finished yet?
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 28, 2011, 11:45:44 PM
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Post by: Adi on October 29, 2011, 12:34:14 AM
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Still a few more hours yet till the 28th is over when looking at PDT time which TS uses.
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 29, 2011, 02:02:02 AM
1. Murray indeed is one fool of a Dr. who indeed had no equipment,
who was coming and going,
leaving his ONE and only patient all alone. Negligence. Confirmed.
2. Being, as we know, "the gloved one", Michael could inject all he wants
and swallow all the pills he want [while Murray was having fun in the bathroom],
leaving no fingerprints. From what I recall, his lovely fingerprints were NOT found
on syringes, vials etc.
3. Murder version, the theory I started with in 2010 - it kinda supports that, no news here.
Murray is proved silly man with no equipment and no skill, spending enough time in
the bathroom chatting via cellphone, while someone else comes in, injects Michael
with whatever it was, leaves.
Murray comes back zipping his pants and finds his one and only patient not breathing.
But defence insists on MJ injecting himself :roll: BS.
It does help that "reasonable doubt" thing though. So.... defence wants that doubt
to rise, so jurors will be confused enough. Right? confused/ It's the only point.. and
the only chance for defence to make at least some jurors doubt Murray's guilt.
But Murray is still negligent enough! Abandonment, negligence - proved.
Post by: ~Souza~ on October 29, 2011, 02:33:27 AM
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
Post by: Grace on October 29, 2011, 02:35:17 AM
Happy Birthday wishes to you both. This is an amazing adventure we are on together. One that has been very much enriched by you both. Thank you for all you have researched, written about and shared on the forum and other places on the web. You have helped us understand better and LOVE more.
Make a special wish on the next wishingstar of the evening, I will be thinking of you with LOVE.
Blessings to you both always,
Wishingstar
Same here - happy belated anniversary and may the light guide and protect you always.
Thank you for all your wonderful contributions!
Blessings!
Quote
Quote from: TS_comments on October 23, 2011, 08:52:02 PM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365432.html#msg365432)
Quote from: Shining light on October 19, 2011, 09:12:14 AM (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg364259.html#msg364259)>
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
We counted the "7" in the presentation charts, yesterday, right?
I don't recall how many were there in total, but on one chart only we counted 16 "7".
So October 28 was indeed a thorough "7" day.
Even the pumpkin came back in a "mute, zoom in on Doc Murray" occasion.
What else do we need.
Doc Murray (or his doppelganger) was back in court, so no reason to panic. The story continues to unfold.
;)
Post by: use_your_illusion on October 29, 2011, 02:36:49 AM
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
You guessed it Souza...I mean...your right
Post by: MJonmind on October 29, 2011, 03:13:27 AM
What I understood from yesterday, about defence position..
1. Murray indeed is one fool of a Dr. who indeed had no equipment,
who was coming and going,
leaving his ONE and only patient all alone. Negligence. Confirmed.
2. Being, as we know, "the gloved one", Michael could inject all he wants
and swallow all the pills he want [while Murray was having fun in the bathroom],
leaving no fingerprints. From what I recall, his lovely fingerprints were NOT found
on syringes, vials etc.
3. Murder version, the theory I started with in 2010 - it kinda supports that, no news here.
Murray is proved silly man with no equipment and no skill, spending enough time in
the bathroom chatting via cellphone, while someone else comes in, injects Michael
with whatever it was, leaves.
Murray comes back zipping his pants and finds his one and only patient not breathing.
But defence insists on MJ injecting himself BS.
It does help that "reasonable doubt" thing though. So.... defence wants that doubt
to rise, so jurors will be confused enough. Right? It's the only point.. and
the only chance for defence to make at least some jurors doubt Murray's guilt.
But Murray is still negligent enough! Abandonment, negligence - proved.
Nice assessment of the situation! And how many innocent people have been accused and served jailtime for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they are simply the best available fit for the crime, also handy for the real killer. In reality there could have been any number of hired medically trained individuals that snuck/or were let in and put the extra amount of propofol in MJ that led to the apnea and his death. Just because Murray seemed incompetent and MJ seemed desperate for sleep really is not enough to make a decision. With no others accused, it will mean a reasonable doubt decison for them.
TS
Quote
Quote from: ~Souza~ on October 24, 2011, 02:16:09 AM
<>>“But if your theory is that this mystery person killed MJ, then where does that leave your claim that Murray cried because he killed MJ?”
Murray cooperated with the mystery person. And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y, and I want to turn myself in—would the court accept that, or dismiss it as hearsay?
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063}.
Around Halloween a person could get nervous about TS backing out so hastily from the murder theory. I just watched the ending of Secret Window, where the main character-- a MPD writer turns psychotic killer (played by Johnny Depp based on novel by Steven King). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Window A killer genius mind could create a labyrinth of scenarios and cover-ups. Now Murray mysteriously is taken away by ambulance. Could it be an attempt on his life by the real killer to silence him, should he choose to defend himself in court? Perhaps now the plot will truly thicken, and something from way out in left field happen. (But of course MJ's still alive! :lol:)
"Good guess on the update 7", but I guess TS likes the surprise element! We'll be here waiting!
Post by: infinatetrinity on October 29, 2011, 04:10:39 AM
Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.
Here is the complete call:
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9 (http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xle0y9)"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news)" target="_blank">Conrad Murray Trial: 911 call played in court</a> <i>door <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews (http://www.dailymotion.com/itnnews)" target="_blank">itnnews</a></i>
I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.
2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.
I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.
Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.
Souza the lady did in fact ask for the location at 8 seconds then at 13 seconds after the caller stated the address the lady asked him if it was in LA and he said yes,then directly after that the lady did also ask if he needed the police or paramedics and he stated paramedics...
Post by: curls on October 29, 2011, 04:50:38 AM
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
I've been thinking this increasingly over the past few days - maybe some are getting sort of over confident about future dates and events. A timely reminder, perhaps, that we are not the ones running this show!
Post by: curls on October 29, 2011, 05:28:42 AM
1. Experts disagreeing = provides reasonable doubt = Murray not guilty
Or:
2. Regardless of experts' opinions about who did what and how, Murray's gross negligence = guilty
Or:
3. Murray takes the stand and tells what REALLY happened = MJ didn't die = not guilty!
Although I favour number 3, realistically I don't expect this to happen! Number 2 is looking the most likely to me right now.
I wonder though about what legally constitutes 'involuntary manslaughter'. Does Murray need to have administered the fatal dose himself for him to be guilty, or can his negligence, even if MJ did it himself, be sufficient to find him guilty?
(Of course, neither MJ nor Murray administered anything fatal, just trying to go along with the plot here!)
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 29, 2011, 06:20:33 AM
I've been thinking this increasingly over the past few days - maybe some are getting sort of over confident about future dates and events. A timely reminder, perhaps, that we are not the ones running this show!
very Well said!
Post by: curls on October 29, 2011, 09:53:26 AM
Dr White said clearly, that with the doses that Murray told police he gave, he (White) would not have expected Michael Jackson to have died.
So, there we have it in a nutshell! It's purely speculation after that, from both defense and prosecution: CM might've given more, MJ might've given it to himself - since when was that allowed in court with no evidence, not even fingerprints on the vital bits of equipment, if I remember correctly? It was talked about in chat yesterday how often the words, assumption, speculation etc were being used!
That statement of White's begs 2 questions be addressed. Firstly, did MJ receive more drugs, from whatever source? And secondly, did Michael Jackson actually not die?!
So far, they've been giving attention to my first question. If speculation is allowed in court, isn't it time someone actually addressed my second one?! Call MJDHI!!
In all seriousness, if the facts as presented don't lend themselves to the perceived outcome - isn't it somebody's job to look at things from a different perspective and uncover the truth? In other words, if those drugs shouldn't have killed MJ, then maybe they didn't!
Just saying!
Post by: wishingstar on October 29, 2011, 11:58:00 AM
I am really wanting to hear in court, "....if Mr. Jackson were here today, what would you say to him?"
Perhaps if Murray takes the stand and his lawyer asks him, I'll get my Mission Impossible moment, lol.
All joking aside, I know this is truly serious. The right questions need to start being asked. I think the defense was leaning towards, "....is it possible that Mr. Jackson didn't die June 25th?" I felt like he wanted to say that, but couldn't.
Patience is needed for sure...........thank you again curls, always love reading your posts!
Have a beautiful day,
Blessings
Post by: suspicious mind on October 29, 2011, 12:06:10 PM
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Post by: Grace on October 29, 2011, 12:11:45 PM
Quote
Why so Much Suspicion Re: Michael Jackson's Deathhttp://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it (http://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it)
It is known to the medical establishment that it takes very large quantities of Propofol to induce and maintain sleep for hours on end. So much so, in fact, that there's little doubt that for Mr. Jackson to get up to six hours of sleep numerous vials of Propofol would have been required.
Abusers of the drug have stated that a single injection lasts no more than ten minutes.
The 200mg container pictured above is what is typically used to induce 1/2 hour of sedation. Repeated administration would therefore be required to induce multiple hours of sleep. This, in turn, suggests that the person administering this drug should have noticed something amiss far sooner than the (now) stated four hours between the star's death and the death being reported.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 29, 2011, 01:25:30 PM
Something to cheer you up, posted 2 years ago:QuoteWhy so Much Suspicion Re: Michael Jackson's Deathhttp://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it (http://liambean.hubpages.com/hub/Propofol-Diprivan--what-is-it)
It is known to the medical establishment that it takes very large quantities of Propofol to induce and maintain sleep for hours on end. So much so, in fact, that there's little doubt that for Mr. Jackson to get up to six hours of sleep numerous vials of Propofol would have been required.
Abusers of the drug have stated that a single injection lasts no more than ten minutes.
The 200mg container pictured above is what is typically used to induce 1/2 hour of sedation. Repeated administration would therefore be required to induce multiple hours of sleep. This, in turn, suggests that the person administering this drug should have noticed something amiss far sooner than the (now) stated four hours between the star's death and the death being reported.
How is that - 4 hours between the star's death and the death being reported suspicious// ?
Post by: paula-c on October 29, 2011, 02:15:00 PM
Post by: curls on October 29, 2011, 02:33:45 PM
@curls....great posts indeed~thank you! : )
I am really wanting to hear in court, "....if Mr. Jackson were here today, what would you say to him?"
Perhaps if Murray takes the stand and his lawyer asks him, I'll get my Mission Impossible moment, lol.
All joking aside, I know this is truly serious. The right questions need to start being asked. I think the defense was leaning towards, "....is it possible that Mr. Jackson didn't die June 25th?" I felt like he wanted to say that, but couldn't.
Patience is needed for sure...........thank you again curls, always love reading your posts!
Have a beautiful day,
Blessings
Thanks wishingstar! I've felt the same at times in court - like there's a pause and a 'deathly' hush after certain statements that seem to be leading to questioning if a death happened at all!
I'd love to see Murray take the stand but unless it's needed for him to present something new or different that wasn't in his interview with police, that will help get him off, then I don't expect it to happen, especially as there's only one thing I can see him saying that would have that result! ;)
Post by: PureLove on October 29, 2011, 06:39:07 PM
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Yes, it was nurse Lee who said Michael had very small veins.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 29, 2011, 06:56:48 PM
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
Post by: MissG on October 29, 2011, 07:03:46 PM
Post by: PureLove on October 29, 2011, 07:18:26 PM
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
You guessed it Souza...I mean...your right
Halloween is the time. (http://www.anikaos.com/0033-halloween_images/carved_pumpkins_faces/pumpkin_faces-02.png)
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on October 29, 2011, 10:12:44 PM
I predict the next level "7" will be October 28 ...
Good guess.
do you think the murray hospital thing has something to do with TS not posting today...? bangbang
Ah! I see now. That's how easy it is to make false assumptions. Good guess doesn't mean it's the right guess. :lol: :lol:
You guessed it Souza...I mean...your right
i supposeeeeee /scream/ lolol/
Post by: wishingstar on October 29, 2011, 10:36:21 PM
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Yes, it was nurse Lee who said Michael had very small veins.
I am going to at this totally different..shocker, I know, lol.
All this talk of veins......could it have been a play on words....Michael had no real/or very small VAINS...meaning he wasn't fully of vanity etc. People just automatically think of, "veins" because of this whole death thing. Perhaps it's the public's own fault for assuming, "vein" when it should be "vain"...........
Also, if I am remembering correctly, this picture is taken from the "Keep it in the Closet" video shoot with Naomi Campbell....he would have done a lot of dancing etc. Hence, having his veins popping out more because of the exercise. Just an observation........
Blessings
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 30, 2011, 09:55:51 AM
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 30, 2011, 10:06:49 AM
Just one thing and I go to sleep.ah someone correct me if i am wrong but wasn't nurse lee one of the ones who said something about michael and small veins?
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
Yes, it was nurse Lee who said Michael had very small veins.
I am going to at this totally different..shocker, I know, lol.
All this talk of veins......could it have been a play on words....Michael had no real/or very small VAINS...meaning he wasn't fully of vanity etc. People just automatically think of, "veins" because of this whole death thing. Perhaps it's the public's own fault for assuming, "vein" when it should be "vain"...........
Also, if I am remembering correctly, this picture is taken from the "Keep it in the Closet" video shoot with Naomi Campbell....he would have done a lot of dancing etc. Hence, having his veins popping out more because of the exercise. Just an observation........
Blessings
.....I was posting that photo just because I like how he's looking with his head up and his eyes closed, the veins were just a pretext loooooooollllllll....
:)
ps: I also like the half dirty tshirt or whatever he's wearing :)
Post by: MissG on October 30, 2011, 10:11:02 AM
At court it was said that a person being administered for a long period intravenous stuff, the veins suffer from it and they get thinner.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 30, 2011, 10:15:33 AM
Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
hmmm I found the movie right away to watch online, usually I'm not good in finding movies online.
What I thought it was interesting was when the magician finds her "dead" body in the river and starts crying and grieving, like a true actor, even though he knows very well she is not really dead. What a liar LOL!!
But my main question still remains: was the doctor in the hoax or not :) ? (the doctor in the movie I mean). And how convenient at that time they didn't had to have an autopsy done.
Post by: MissG on October 30, 2011, 10:20:02 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 30, 2011, 10:20:31 AM
That pic it´s so "spanish", like Joaquín Cortés poses!The whole video is "spanish" styled, probably because for some extra "passion".
At court it was said that a person being administered for a long period intravenous stuff, the veins suffer from it and they get thinner.
If they said that in court and MJ was taking intravenous propofol for decades, they might be right and he had no good veins anymore :(
Post by: GINAFELICIA on October 30, 2011, 10:22:01 AM
Murray was there, he knows what happened. He told the truth and the truth will prevail. I just would like to listen to his version of the events soon. His "theory" is needed to finish the puzzle.
Gema was I was talking about the doctor in The Illusionist, if your answer was for me.
Post by: MissG on October 30, 2011, 10:40:22 AM
My post was regarding Murray needing to take the stand to listen to his versions of the events. He is a Doctor who Michael wanted to be treated with. Also, Murray seems to be a "concern Doctor" before being a "money hungry Doctor" according to the version given by his patients.
Murray had a clinic which was going to be taken away...either for land (to collect petrol or just to sell it to real estate, this info I need to sharpen). Murray was treating patients by his own risk and cost (may be that´s why he bought sedatives, propofol and whatever else needed in huge quantities).
To me looks like Murray did a lot pro-bono and Michael wanted to help him and have him running a children´s hospital. Michael seems like he trusted Murray that´s why the mention of "Dr Adams" it´s bugging me big time. We need to know what´s on with Dr Adams.
Post by: ilovemjforever on October 30, 2011, 11:01:04 AM
Michael is so sexy on this picture,and his veins are popping out like crazy.Just one thing and I go to sleep.
They said they couldn't find veins, that Michael had no good veins, but in this pic he seems to have very visible and sound veins:
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h478/GINAFELICIA/untitled.jpg)
Of course it's a few years realier but they couldn't just vanish in the meantime.
(http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif) yes , michael does have veins :shock:
Post by: ilovemjforever on October 30, 2011, 11:12:19 AM
Regarding possible verdicts:Interesting analogy,but for some reason i go with 3,Murray will testify,spill the beans,M.J. still alive,and point out who the real hit men are.That would be the perfect scenario,and then the BAM.It probably want happen that way,but hey anythings possible.That could be level 7,u never know,but time will tell.
1. Experts disagreeing = provides reasonable doubt = Murray not guilty
Or:
2. Regardless of experts' opinions about who did what and how, Murray's gross negligence = guilty
Or:
3. Murray takes the stand and tells what REALLY happened = MJ didn't die = not guilty!
Although I favour number 3, realistically I don't expect this to happen! Number 2 is looking the most likely to me right now.
I wonder though about what legally constitutes 'involuntary manslaughter'. Does Murray need to have administered the fatal dose himself for him to be guilty, or can his negligence, even if MJ did it himself, be sufficient to find him guilty?
(Of course, neither MJ nor Murray administered anything fatal, just trying to go along with the plot here!)
Post by: Sarahli on October 30, 2011, 11:15:12 AM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 30, 2011, 11:25:56 AM
Post by: Aidan_81 on October 30, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
God knows we want answers /white flag/ ..
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on October 30, 2011, 02:22:09 PM
@Kristina4LOVE-Thanks for the comment. Yes I was very aware of the suicide by the Prince and I also connected Evan Chandler's death to it. I was avoiding writing that because it is a subject that is not pleasant to think about.Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
hmmm I found the movie right away to watch online, usually I'm not good in finding movies online.
What I thought it was interesting was when the magician finds her "dead" body in the river and starts crying and grieving, like a true actor, even though he knows very well she is not really dead. What a liar LOL!!
But my main question still remains: was the doctor in the hoax or not :) ? (the doctor in the movie I mean). And how convenient at that time they didn't had to have an autopsy done.
@GINAFELICIA-Thanks for commenting. To answer your question whether the Dr. was in on the fake death? Yes he was. You should re-watch the movie and pay attention to the scenes when Eisenheim is at the train station and when he finds Sophie's body in the river. Shortly after she is found the Dr. is there confirming she is dead and stops the police officer from examining her body more closer. Btw where did you find the whole movie online? Can you post a link for those who want to watch this movie? Thanks.
Post by: paula-c on October 30, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
@ sarahli.... you are so right. full of contradictions.... how could a verdict possibly be reached like this with all of this conflicting information. if CM is found guilty of MS (even though i believe IMO is not real trial) it just goes to show how disgusting the court system really is that a conclusive decision could be made with so much inaccurate, conflicting, confusing, so called evidence and testimonies.
yes errors, contradictions, false photos,... more errors and more contradictions,... until errors of grammar
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 30, 2011, 03:56:38 PM
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd. We've ventured off long ago from the whole "do what you're told and don't ask questions" way of living, and its good to know that if I can't convince anyone of the hoax atleast I have you guys to keep me focused on what's real. Of course I see it all myself and take no shortcut through any of this. But I find it incredibly soothing to read articulate posts here from all of you.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Post by: Vietnow on October 30, 2011, 04:10:35 PM
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 30, 2011, 04:21:25 PM
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
Post by: Vietnow on October 30, 2011, 04:29:31 PM
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
Dressing up as MJ should never be offensive, but I honestly would take offense to seeing someone dressed up as Steven Hawking. As great of a person as he is, that poor man can't help his condition.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on October 30, 2011, 04:35:02 PM
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
Dressing up as MJ should never be offensive, but I honestly would take offense to seeing someone dressed up as Steven Hawking. As great of a person as he is, that poor man can't help his condition.
I agree about Stephen Hawking. I don't think anyone would be offended if I dressed like MJ, but maybe if I have a sign that says I'm Alive might make some Non-Believers upset, but I'm ready willing and able to explain why I think he is alive. But I don't want it to ruin my night either. Oh well, if half the girls here can walk around with nothing but underwear on (it 55 degrees at night here, I laugh at their misery), then I can express my opinion (ahem fact) that Mike ain't no ghost.
Post by: jono on October 30, 2011, 04:52:53 PM
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
Mind if I ask for picture proof? lol You should get quite a few questions.
Yes, I will take a pic :). And I'll be at Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach, a pretty busy place LOL. I saw three guys last night dressed as Hitler, Stahlan and Steven Hawking so my costume shouldn't be too offensive if anyone gets the wrong impression. It should be fun though. Last night I was a zombie from the 90's so tonight should be even better.
Dressing up as MJ should never be offensive, but I honestly would take offense to seeing someone dressed up as Steven Hawking. As great of a person as he is, that poor man can't help his condition.
I agree about Stephen Hawking. I don't think anyone would be offended if I dressed like MJ, but maybe if I have a sign that says I'm Alive might make some Non-Believers upset, but I'm ready willing and able to explain why I think he is alive. But I don't want it to ruin my night either. Oh well, if half the girls here can walk around with nothing but underwear on (it 55 degrees at night here, I laugh at their misery), then I can express my opinion (ahem fact) that Mike ain't no ghost.
You go girl! party/ michael-jackson/
Looking forward to see those pics! /woohoo/
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on October 30, 2011, 05:28:51 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 30, 2011, 06:07:02 PM
I've been reading here off and on and just have to say you "brainy" posters do such beautiful work. I usually keep quiet in here because I find you learn more when you watch and observe. I wanted to make a comment about La Toya telling us to watch "The Illusionist" and to "read between the lines". The desperacy in her voice made me just stop and wonder. Its also inspired me to be more open about the hoax and not so concerned with how people may perceive me after I tell them "uhhh yea by the way, Michael Jackson is still alive." We are an Army of L.O.V.E. but we are all relatively low key. Is it possible to show blind eyes and inform deaf ears and closed minds? I mean I've convinced my husband a little that MAYBE Mike is alive, but he is forced to listen to me because I'm his wife lol.
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd. We've ventured off long ago from the whole "do what you're told and don't ask questions" way of living, and its good to know that if I can't convince anyone of the hoax atleast I have you guys to keep me focused on what's real. Of course I see it all myself and take no shortcut through any of this. But I find it incredibly soothing to read articulate posts here from all of you.
P.S. For Halloween, I'm going to be Michael with my Beat It jacket, black pants, white socks, pennyloafers and a sign around my neck that says "I'm Alive!" I can't see how much more telling my costume could be!!
hey moon, your post really resonated with me. i have started posting on facebook to my 300+ friends little bits of info abt the CM case, wrong spelling, wrong DOB, wrond DOD, false photos of MJ in ambulance, bizzare antics in court, elephants / pumpkins, etc. all but one fo my friends now thinks i am crazy and i am sure some friends have hidden my status updates on FB. i talk to my family abt things that dont add up re: what family say, funeral, mj disguises, court case stuff, explain backs posts prior to DH as well as enlightening posts by front / ts. my husband is starting to believe that mj is alive (he isnt a fan btw) and actually now asks me everyday are there any updates....
as for the others (family and friends) they really feel that i have lost the plot and am dellusional.
i dont care for the love of MJ i will wear their flack... also being able to say told you so, will be sweet!
more importantly than MJ being alive, i wish they would all wake up to sociotey. some of my family and friends are the biggest uneducated, sedintary, unaware, oblivious consumers that i know. they think that i am absolutely crackers that i believe in conspiracy. they actually berate me what consiracy are you on these days, (they have been doing this the past 5 years) they dont realise many of them are connected. i might not have all the answers. but they never question. they believe everything that they are told...
if being a freethinker means having people think i am ludirous, then so be it. i'd rather be free than be a drone... period!
Post by: bec on October 30, 2011, 06:42:54 PM
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd.
hey moon, your post really resonated with me. i have started posting on facebook to my 300+ friends little bits of info abt the CM case, wrong spelling, wrong DOB, wrond DOD, false photos of MJ in ambulance, bizzare antics in court, elephants / pumpkins, etc. all but one fo my friends now thinks i am crazy and i am sure some friends have hidden my status updates on FB.
as for the others (family and friends) they really feel that i have lost the plot and am dellusional.
i dont care for the love of MJ i will wear their flack... also being able to say told you so, will be sweet!
if being a freethinker means having people think i am ludirous, then so be it. i'd rather be free than be a drone... period!
I bolded the specific points in both your posts that I identify with. I think they were very thought provoking. I have been very vocal about being a hoaxer since the beginning. I make no apologies and I'm fairly open about it. Which is not to say I'm in your face with the general public but one way or another pretty much everyone who knows or knows of me in real life, knows I am a (lunatic) believer.
I would love to have the attitude of; so be it, let people think whatever they want and it makes no difference to me... but the problem is, I am a small business owner and I do need to remain greatly concerned with whatever people "think" of me as I am the literal face on my livelihood. If people have a negative view of me, my business will suffer. The way the game is played (life) every person must remain ecconomically viable or fall through the cracks to the bottom dregs of society, where as the rules of the game dictate: too bad for you, you lost the life lottery (think the homeless/in prison/on welfare set). I don't want to lose the life lottery.
So, really, the stakes are quite high and I have bet the house on this. At least it could be argued as such. It tends to make me a little nervous these days. (edited to add: no, no one made me do this, -that is not what I am saying- yes, I made this decision based on my own free will)
I would apologize for being off topic but I'm not sure we have a topic anymore? TIAI becomes more like a current events/pertinent observations thread as the pages stack higher. That could be challenged in court though. Objection, irrelevance!
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on October 30, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
so totally get where you are coming from and respect the need to exercise restraint at times. respect/
Post by: BeTheChange on October 31, 2011, 12:02:04 PM
Some 'major' points so far (there's been plenty but was only able to write down a few):
- White agreed that Murray deviated from the standard of care on June 25th and the months preceeding
- Agrees that Murray, in his statement to police, admitted to giving MJ propofol through both bolus and infusion...but testified that he has NO clue as to how or if Murray administered the 'fatal' dose (i.e. these experts can do as many demonstrations as they like, the FACT is that neither know how Mike died)
- White has never given propofol in a bedroom setting and had never heard of it before this case lol
- After a LOT of back and forth, White finally admitted that he would NOT have left MJ alone (left the room)
- White said he can't 'justify' Murray's delay in calling 911
- He would NOT take all of Murray's statements as 'true' (i.e. doesn't believe everything Murray told police is true...begs the question, if not guilty why lie?)
- White has been paid $11,000 so far by the defense but is 'hoping to get more'. Said his normal daily rate to appear in court is $3500 (this is NOT included in the $11,000 he's gotten so far). But said that he will not be billing the defense the total amount because he doesn't think they have the 'resources'. Walgren pointed out that White has sat in that courtroom almost daily. (for a defense on a limited budget, maybe he could've watched from home a few days??? lol)
I'm listening to the live cross-examination as I'm typing and wow...is Walgren on a mission today lol.
This is it....for now :)
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 31, 2011, 12:17:09 PM
[...] Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd.ohh SO true !! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/0059.gif)
Post by: wishingstar on October 31, 2011, 12:22:39 PM
LOVE & HUGS........
Blessings Always
Post by: SimPattyK on October 31, 2011, 12:23:44 PM
[...]I bolded the specific points in both your posts that I identify with.^^ Same here! ;)
If people have a negative view of me, my business will suffer.This is available for anyone working in any business field. ;)
I've talked to some friends and family about the hoax, they either think I am crazy or naive to beLIEve in that...So I quit pretty quickly trying to show them any other hoax-proofs.
I never tried to open the subject in my working-entourage! That'll be too risky for my job! lmao :lol:
Post by: melody on October 31, 2011, 01:58:25 PM
The one near the pencil sharpener...
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/beaverOct31st.png)
...is the beaver which was near the witness stand on October 25th:
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/beaverOct25th.png)
The statue behind Walgren's head...
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/elephant_c.png)
...is an elephant:
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/elephant.png)
Post by: applehead250609 on October 31, 2011, 02:07:04 PM
For those in the chat that brought up the animal statues:
The one near the pencil sharpener...
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/beaverOct31st.png)
...is the beaver which was near the witness stand on October 25th:
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/beaverOct25th.png)
The statue behind Walgren's head...
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/elephant_c.png)
...is an elephant:
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff504/z3lala/elephant.png)
I'm sorry do you mean this BEAVER geek/?????
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AUZDi_FrfrE/TPr93yQJEFI/AAAAAAAAABk/9aaiwcxI_d8/s1600/Beaver%2BMel%2BGibson.jpg)
(http://www.getthebigpicture.net/storage/jbaldwin/full_Mel_Gibson_beaver_filming_6_wenn2612778.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1297139902528)
;) :-*
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttv-gvOzaPw[/youtube]
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on October 31, 2011, 02:32:47 PM
Should we all risk our personal reputation to spread Michael's message? The very few people who I've told mock me for it, which is no problem because when the world laughs at me, I laugh louder. Anyway, La Toya sounds a little frustrated with how people see with their literal eyes and hardly ever with their gut, their intuition, their sixth sense. Their heart. I understand how she feels, knowing the truth but finding it a bit pointless sometimes to try and convince people. Our society works like cattle, it only takes one individual to cause chaos within the entire herd.
hey moon, your post really resonated with me. i have started posting on facebook to my 300+ friends little bits of info abt the CM case, wrong spelling, wrong DOB, wrond DOD, false photos of MJ in ambulance, bizzare antics in court, elephants / pumpkins, etc. all but one fo my friends now thinks i am crazy and i am sure some friends have hidden my status updates on FB.
as for the others (family and friends) they really feel that i have lost the plot and am dellusional.
i dont care for the love of MJ i will wear their flack... also being able to say told you so, will be sweet!
if being a freethinker means having people think i am ludirous, then so be it. i'd rather be free than be a drone... period!
I bolded the specific points in both your posts that I identify with. I think they were very thought provoking. I have been very vocal about being a hoaxer since the beginning. I make no apologies and I'm fairly open about it. Which is not to say I'm in your face with the general public but one way or another pretty much everyone who knows or knows of me in real life, knows I am a (lunatic) believer.
I would love to have the attitude of; so be it, let people think whatever they want and it makes no difference to me... but the problem is, I am a small business owner and I do need to remain greatly concerned with whatever people "think" of me as I am the literal face on my livelihood. If people have a negative view of me, my business will suffer. The way the game is played (life) every person must remain ecconomically viable or fall through the cracks to the bottom dregs of society, where as the rules of the game dictate: too bad for you, you lost the life lottery (think the homeless/in prison/on welfare set). I don't want to lose the life lottery.
So, really, the stakes are quite high and I have bet the house on this. At least it could be argued as such. It tends to make me a little nervous these days. (edited to add: no, no one made me do this, -that is not what I am saying- yes, I made this decision based on my own free will)
I would apologize for being off topic but I'm not sure we have a topic anymore? TIAI becomes more like a current events/pertinent observations thread as the pages stack higher. That could be challenged in court though. Objection, irrelevance!
I absolutely understand that there are topics which you can't discuss at work, because you don't want people to think you are crazy or make some kind of negative impression on them. Even though we are always told that it's best to be yourself, but unfortunately it's not working in our world, especially in the business world.
For me the situation is a bit different right now and easier, because i'm not working for the past 6 months. So the only people i can talk to about the conspiracy or about Michael is my family and friends. My mother and my sisters do believe that Michael is alive, but my step father is a bit old :lol: and he thinks that he knows it all. But time to time out of curiosity he asks me what's going on in the Hoaxland.
I guess that i'm a very lucky person, because non of my friends told me that i'm crazy (well at least not in my face :lol:), they actually listen to my arguments and then their face goes to suspicious// WTF??. And almost all of them actually believe that he might still be alive, but all of them for sure are interested in this subject.
I went to Janet's concert 2 weeks ago, IT WAS AMAZING!!!!! I met so many great people, about half of the audience were actually Michael's fans, i could tell by the way they were dressed lolol/. The last song Janet sang was "Together again" which was dedicated to Michael, then she thanked us for the support, because her family is going through such a hard time and she also spoke about LOVE A LOT.
There i spoke with one Russian fan of Michael about us believers and she was so interested, she kept asking me all the questions and i was doing my best to answer it all. She said that she is definitely going to check our forum. Then i spoke to a Japanese guy, also Michael's fan, and i couldn't even tell him that i am a believer. Because he just couldn't stop talking about how Sony killed Michael and that Michael didn't look good in TII, that he was sick. But in at one point i actually did ask him what he thinks about believers and he said that we can't let go, that he feels bad for us blah blah blah. So i closed the subject and we were just talking about how AMAZING Michael is. ;D
So i guess we must chose carefully people with whom we can discuss such difficult subject and i usually don't talk about numerology, because it's a very hard part of the hoax. Family and official documents are the main points i use in my "Michael Jackson is still alive" speech.
Post by: Vietnow on October 31, 2011, 03:28:29 PM
Post by: melody on October 31, 2011, 03:32:51 PM
I'm sorry do you mean this BEAVER geek/?????
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AUZDi_FrfrE/TPr93yQJEFI/AAAAAAAAABk/9aaiwcxI_d8/s1600/Beaver%2BMel%2BGibson.jpg)
Uh...no lolol/
But I see the connection(s): (1) Michael is using a prescription puppet (Murray) to communicate an idea to the world which he would not have been able to communicate otherwise, & (2) Michael used an alter-ego (King of Pop) to gain success for his family, said alter-ego develops into an impediment in the longrun so he cuts it out of his life in order to pursue some normalcy with his family once again.
Where is the chatroom during trial coverage? The one that existed beside the video feed is no longer there, and the forum chatroom is messed up due to some changes going on. Anyone?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/trial-live-stream/
You can still click the top banner; it'll take you there.
edit: If you just want the chat window: http://livechatcmtrial.chatango.com/
Post by: Vietnow on October 31, 2011, 03:41:20 PM
Where is the chatroom during trial coverage? The one that existed beside the video feed is no longer there, and the forum chatroom is messed up due to some changes going on. Anyone?
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/trial-live-stream/
You can still click the top banner; it'll take you there.
Thanks, but I know how to get to the video feed. I'm looking for the chatroom...haha.
Post by: SimPattyK on October 31, 2011, 05:07:54 PM
[...]Loved reading your post! thanks for all the details! I love how you deal with people and this subject. Clever girl you are!
So i guess we must chose carefully people with whom we can discuss such difficult subject and i usually don't talk about numerology, because it's a very hard part of the hoax. Family and official documents are the main points i use in my "Michael Jackson is still alive" speech.
Numerology is indeed a difficult subject to talk about and for people to accept it.
I was the last person recommended for someone to talk with about this. I really never believed/understood this stuff before learning things about Elvis and reading TS posts!
At first I was totally reluctant about it and I continued reading those posts, only because I trusted TS! All his other posts made so much sense, that I told to myself this numerology thing has to make sense too, at least in the hoax-scenario! So this is how I started paying attention to this subject , thinking that it is only hoax-related, because everything was perfectly planned to the year, month, day, hour, minute!
But once you acknowledge those facts ^^, once you start understanding some things, then you begin noticing other things that were not necessarily planned!! This is were I read what Jesse (Elvis) wrote about how certain numbers influenced his whole life and also his family's. I read this on Linda's site. There are really certain things that cannot be planned like that, therefore those 'coincidences" are destined or left there by God's will! I just can't find another reasonable explanation for all the numbers 8 in Elvis life!! or the number 7 occurences in Michael's life!! or the number 3 and/or 8 occurences in MY own life!! This is what I noticed after studying Elvis&MJ hoax-numerology: that in my life there are also certain numbers that keep popping out inexplicably!
But as you said, I don't dare talk about these things with people from my entourage... because to tell you the truth, due to the mind-blowing effect of all these info/discoveries, sometimes I feel too that I'm going crazyyy!! loll I am overwhelmed by everything I have learned ever since this started more than 2 years ago! But I enjoy every minute of it all, at the same time! loll So crazy or not, I like it! ;) :lol: :lol:
Post by: PureLove on October 31, 2011, 05:30:12 PM
Where is the chatroom during trial coverage? The one that existed beside the video feed is no longer there, and the forum chatroom is messed up due to some changes going on. Anyone?
Vietnow, I can not see the chat on Chrome. Try Internet Explorer or Opera as a server. And check out if your pc has a Flash Player problem.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on October 31, 2011, 09:43:09 PM
@Kristina4LOVE-Thanks for the comment. Yes I was very aware of the suicide by the Prince and I also connected Evan Chandler's death to it. I was avoiding writing that because it is a subject that is not pleasant to think about.Well, it doesn’t matter anyway, because I am now officially giving up on the real murder theory; I give myself an “F”, for succeeding at “F-ailure” (I failed to prove murder). La Toya supported me when I started this thread (on 9-27-11), by tweeting that “This is definitely straight a murder trial” {http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104 (http://twitter.com/#!/latoyajackson/status/118700418254639104)}; but now she has spilled the beans, let the cat out of the bag, by saying that it’s a fake death made to look like murder—which is exactly what “The Illusionist” movie is all about {for which version of “The Illusionist”, see Anna’s good post http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg366063.html#msg366063)}.@TS-I am not picking your post apart since I won anyways, ;) but I wanted to come back and respond to the info regarding the movie The Illusionist. I spent a little time looking on youtube for the movie. It seems there are bits and pieces of it uploaded but I have yet to come across the whole movie. Yesterday my daughter and I went for a walk and I was telling her about La Toya and what she said before going into court. I told my daughter that La Toya recommended that we should watch The Illusionist. I explained that I wanted to get that movie and she says mama we already have it. :shock: I said what? She says yea don't you remember you got it last year and I watched it but you didn't. I was like. bounce/ :mrgreen:
La Toya’s statement really doesn’t even qualify as a clue; instead, it is a point-blank in-your-face wake-up alarm. By all means, do not overlook the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of major movies which La Toya could’ve referred to, with real murder plots in them, if the truth about MJ was real murder. Instead, she told us to watch the movie which ends like this: “… a montage shows Uhl putting the pieces together and discovering how Eisenheim faked Sophie's death and framed Leopold for the [fake] murder. The shot of Uhl closes with him … in realisation of the masterful illusion that has been so successfully planned & implemented.” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illusionist_(2006_film)); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,21063.0.html); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdpgFhG-DQ)}.
/bravo/ /woohoo/ /woohoo/ /bravo/
I have watched the movie and it was awesome. I have some favorite parts as follows:
After Sophie's death finally he (Eisenheim) emerged from his grief, bought a rundown theater, fired his manager and began preparing for a new kind of show. It is very interesting that Eisenheim fired his manager only to rehire him close to his departure. Hmm...
Eisenheim always had a enthusiastic audience but now he was attracting a more impassioned following. Sounds familiar...
The doctor shot the Prince up in his vein in his hand. What was the drug I wonder? The Prince wants Eisenheim arrested for fraud. After a show Eisenheim is in the police office with followers outside below. He goes to the window and addresses the crowd. 8-)
"Listen to me please. I want you all to know that everything you have seen in my theater is an Illusion. It's a trick not real. I apologize if I have given you any false hope. My intention has only been to entertain. Nothing more."-Eisenheim
I hope your halloween is a good one. /cook/
I guess you can never know all the stuff you might have at your own house! :lol:
I LOVE this movie so much! bounce/ I saw it in 2007 for the first time and i was shocked and so happy when in the end it was all just a hoax "The Illusion" and they lived happily ever after :)
Great points Im_convincedmjalive. Also one very weird thing is that in the movie the prince (i forgot his name) kills himself, after being accused of killing the girl. In our hoax we have this Chandler guy who killed himself. Well in our hoax it should have been CM who kills himself, but we need him for the trial. These are just some crazy thoughts in my head. Sorry...
hmmm I found the movie right away to watch online, usually I'm not good in finding movies online.
What I thought it was interesting was when the magician finds her "dead" body in the river and starts crying and grieving, like a true actor, even though he knows very well she is not really dead. What a liar LOL!!
But my main question still remains: was the doctor in the hoax or not :) ? (the doctor in the movie I mean). And how convenient at that time they didn't had to have an autopsy done.
@GINAFELICIA-Thanks for commenting. To answer your question whether the Dr. was in on the fake death? Yes he was. You should re-watch the movie and pay attention to the scenes when Eisenheim is at the train station and when he finds Sophie's body in the river. Shortly after she is found the Dr. is there confirming she is dead and stops the police officer from examining her body more closer. Btw where did you find the whole movie online? Can you post a link for those who want to watch this movie? Thanks.
I just finished seeing the movie.. Spectacular.. Wow.. what an illusion for real.. if you want to watch it I have link you can watch it by computer.. I do not know if this link can be used all over the world, but you can try.. http://www.letmewatchthis.com/watch-movies/2006/watch-the-illusionist-6720/ This movie was done in 2006 enough time for Michael to put things into practice. Everyone should watch this movie.
Post by: Adi on October 31, 2011, 10:45:55 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 01, 2011, 05:06:34 AM
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. This is huge, considering everything is being based off of what could have, or should have happened if events transpired according to this theory or that theory which is being used to build a case against or for Murray. No one knows when he really died. Was it before Murray left the room or after? The whole point of an autopsy, especially homocide, you find out how many hours someone has been dead by way of autopsy; thus determining within what hour a person has died. But if there was no body then this couldn't have been done so perhaps it was left out, probably on purpose? How can you have a manslaughter case and create a timeline of when things happened without a time of death? Remember, people believed him to be DOA but they worked on him for over an hour anyway until the official announcement.
If this is so, and doctors/paramedics are saying he was dead, why didn't the coroner determine when he died?
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 01, 2011, 07:00:55 AM
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. anyway until the official announcement.
....
- Hi Suzy, this bothers me a LOT, too. It's so important and .. it's the key moment really.
They blather about "around 12 p.m.?" but I need
proper confirmation from proper medics/coroners. They did have really nice fresh body, didn't they, why so hard to deliver real time of death?
/pull hair/
At times seems like "the body" was hopelessly dead way before 12 p.m.
Then suddenly it was still half-alive after 12 p.m.
Then totally dead when paramedics arrived.
Then crazy amount of time "saving" the very dead body at hospital, "because Murray told them to".
/overreacting/
Post by: Adi on November 01, 2011, 07:16:15 AM
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. anyway until the official announcement.
....
- Hi Suzy, this bothers me a LOT, too. It's so important and .. it's the key moment really.
They blather about "around 12 p.m.?" but I need
proper confirmation from proper medics/coroners. They did have really nice fresh body, didn't they, why so hard to deliver real time of death?
/pull hair/
At times seems like "the body" was hopelessly dead way before 12 p.m.
Then suddenly it was still half-alive after 12 p.m.
Then totally dead when paramedics arrived.
Then crazy amount of time "saving" the very dead body at hospital, "because Murray told them to".
/overreacting/
Exactly, nothing adds up.....contradictions everywhere about everything....and that begs this question again "what" or "who" went to the hospital on that day?? This was discussed in TS's Level 3 (April 11th 2011) but I don't know that a conclusive answer was ever reached.
Post by: Sarahli on November 01, 2011, 08:37:04 AM
Post by: ilovemjforever on November 01, 2011, 08:40:14 AM
Post by: fordtocarr on November 01, 2011, 08:44:46 AM
Janet Jackson
@JanetJackson Janet Jackson
JANET ARRIVED IN AUSTRALIA TODAY TO CONTINUE HER HIGHLY ACCLAIMED NUMBER ONES: UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL TOUR bit.ly/vdFUqG -Janet's Team
Seems like strange timing don't it?
Post by: ilovemjforever on November 01, 2011, 08:48:42 AM
So, I've read Janet is leaving to go back to her tour again.yes ford i find that very strange,doesnt make sense to me.maybe its part of the illusion,lol.
Janet Jackson
@JanetJackson Janet Jackson
JANET ARRIVED IN AUSTRALIA TODAY TO CONTINUE HER HIGHLY ACCLAIMED NUMBER ONES: UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL TOUR bit.ly/vdFUqG -Janet's Team
Seems like strange timing don't it?
Post by: BeTheChange on November 01, 2011, 08:50:29 AM
Because of all the contradictions, the jury may get 'hung up' on making a decision....but IMO the contradictions are a smoke-screen. Again, ONLY going by what has been presented in court, which WE know is riddled with false 'evidence'....but trying to see it from the jury's perspective, based on what they've been 'allowed' to see...the time of 'death', how much propofol was given and when, etc....while important, don't detract or negate Murray's actions leading up to the moment of 'death'.
Should having a 'license' give doctors free access to do whatever they want for the right price...even when their decisions are contrary to the oath they've taken? When asking that question, which I believe is at the heart of this trial, the contradictions become minor points. If the trial ends without any surprises, and regardless of what the jurors discuss in reaching a decision...their verdict will speak volumes and will either send a loud message to 'Hollywood' doctors and doctors all over the country...or it may, potentially, open up the floodgates of 'doctors for hire'. At this point, again based solely on what's been presented in court so far....if a verdict of 'innocent' is reached....the jury is, in essence, saying that it is 'ok' for doctors to do as they please...to have free reign and power to purchase, prescribe and administer whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want, however they want and for whoever they want, regardless of whether or not it is medically warranted.
THAT, in itself, brings to mind Back's post about the need for more 'intricate' plots to kill someone nowadays, whereas 20 years ago a bullet would suffice. Most people have a doctor...people in 'high places' most definitely have doctors...an innocent verdict could set a precedent allowing 'hits' on people without the need for a gun...all they'd need is money and a 'doctor for hire'. IF doctors are allowed this level of power it's not only people in 'high places' that could be at risk...we all could be given the fact that we 'trust' doctors with our lives (think vaccines, 'new' shots for 'new' viruses, etc).
If the trial ends with Dr. White or without a major turn of events (like Murray testifying)...this is what the jury will be left to decide, it all comes down to how much power doctors should have. And that is a very scary thought.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @TS...do you not have a sweet-tooth? :lol: What else can we 'bribe' you with? ;)
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 01, 2011, 09:07:46 AM
Another thing I've realized is there is NO official time of death. There is the time of death in which he was pronounced dead at 2:26, but no time as to when he actually died. anyway until the official announcement.
....
- Hi Suzy, this bothers me a LOT, too. It's so important and .. it's the key moment really.
They blather about "around 12 p.m.?" but I need
proper confirmation from proper medics/coroners. They did have really nice fresh body, didn't they, why so hard to deliver real time of death?
/pull hair/
At times seems like "the body" was hopelessly dead way before 12 p.m.
Then suddenly it was still half-alive after 12 p.m.
Then totally dead when paramedics arrived.
Then crazy amount of time "saving" the very dead body at hospital, "because Murray told them to".
/overreacting/
i personally absolutely LOVE the fact that the time line doesnt add up and therefore an official TOD can not be attained... more evidence that he never actually died. maybe instead of trying to obtain a TOD and working it out, the actual answer is the fact that one can not be found.... /woohoo/
maybe wrong, but is a possibility.
Post by: wishingstar on November 01, 2011, 09:20:37 AM
When you 'subtract' all the contradictions (which would be important to the jury, if they are 'real', like time of death, how he died, etc)...what the jury is basically left with are some 'details' that both sides aren't contradicting. As per the 'script', Murray (a doctor) ordered a huge amount of propofol and had it shipped to a residential address. He administered propofol and several other meds to MJ nightly, in his home, over a 2 month period. Unless he's lived under a rock, Murray did all this knowing that Mike has previously publically stated he had become addicted to prescription meds (whether true or not, this was publically stated by MJ himself). Based on the autopsy report, propofol played a huge role in his 'death'....as did Murray's actions and lack of action/equipment in dealing with an emergency situation.
Because of all the contradictions, the jury may get 'hung up' on making a decision....but IMO the contradictions are a smoke-screen. Again, ONLY going by what has been presented in court, which WE know is riddled with false 'evidence'....but trying to see it from the jury's perspective, based on what they've been 'allowed' to see...the time of 'death', how much propofol was given and when, etc....while important, don't detract or negate Murray's actions leading up to the moment of 'death'.
Should having a 'license' give doctors free access to do whatever they want for the right price...even when their decisions are contrary to the oath they've taken? When asking that question, which I believe is at the heart of this trial, the contradictions become minor points. If the trial ends without any surprises, and regardless of what the jurors discuss in reaching a decision...their verdict will speak volumes and will either send a loud message to 'Hollywood' doctors and doctors all over the country...or it may, potentially, open up the floodgates of 'doctors for hire'. At this point, again based solely on what's been presented in court so far....if a verdict of 'innocent' is reached....the jury is, in essence, saying that it is 'ok' for doctors to do as they please...to have free reign and power to purchase, prescribe and administer whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want, however they want and for whoever they want, regardless of whether or not it is medically warranted.
THAT, in itself, brings to mind Back's post about the need for more 'intricate' plots to kill someone nowadays, whereas 20 years ago a bullet would suffice. Most people have a doctor...people in 'high places' most definitely have doctors...an innocent verdict could set a precedent allowing 'hits' on people without the need for a gun...all they'd need is money and a 'doctor for hire'. IF doctors are allowed this level of power it's not only people in 'high places' that could be at risk...we all could be given the fact that we 'trust' doctors with our lives (think vaccines, 'new' shots for 'new' viruses, etc).
If the trial ends with Dr. White or without a major turn of events (like Murray testifying)...this is what the jury will be left to decide, it all comes down to how much power doctors should have. And that is a very scary thought.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. @TS...do you not have a sweet-tooth? :lol: What else can we 'bribe' you with? ;)
/bravo/ Great post BeTheChange.........thank you so much for putting words to some thoughts that have been floating around my head as well.......much appreciated!
*Perhaps TS is a dentist.....how about fava beans and a nice chianti???? :lol:
Blessings Always
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 01, 2011, 09:35:04 AM
What the trial is about.
I think verdict should be "guilty".
Don't worry all, he won't spend much if any time in prison - and from what I get,
his licence is not that big deal anyway.
The one reason, among others, why the hoax should be revealed is "Murray's" safety - he will
stay MJ's murderer for everyone out there. And this is dangerous.
If there is no hoax, then he is doomed for real. And no, not because of 4 years home arrest.
So I don't know.. they'll have to hide him somewhere anyway. Many people would
want him.. silent.
I hope Jermaine's promise "it all gonna come out" was not just words. /white flag/
Though at the moment the trial goes on and on /judge/ ...
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 01, 2011, 09:38:36 AM
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
Post by: Grace on November 01, 2011, 11:42:35 AM
You are right, BeTheChange ...
I think verdict should be "guilty".
I agree, BeTheChange. "Guilty" will point to reckless corrupt doctors - who are already existing and are making quite a lot of money without raising any eyebrow. "Not guilty" would open doors for "Drs Feelgood" to just go ahead and expand what they are already doing.
However, a "guilty" is no free ticket on this train. It is more complicated.
"Guilty"would be required for several reasons:
- despite the various theories elaborated in wildest speculations about what might have happened that day, Doc Murray had allegedly declared that he was not available when the person relying on him needed his competence. The various theories sneaking around the pit like a cat around the milk pot did not change any aspect of this statement.
So no matter what else happened, Doc Murray is guilty of neglect and missing care. In a moral common understanding, Doc Murray is guilty from his statement alone.
- "Guilty" would be "calming" those hostile souls whining for "revenge" on the murderer (for a while).
- "Guilty" is required to "calm" those who were nailed themselves in the trial: Dr. Shafer and Dr. White.
- "Guilty" is required following a dramaturgical logic to induce the wakeup and memory effect of shock for non-believers and non-interested: "it's not the way I thought".
- "Guilty" will put Doc Murray behind "bars" but not really as we learned from TMZ.
- "Guilty" holds the possibility of Michael returning and of a BAM.
But "guilty" is wrong since Doc Murray did not "kill" Michael.
If a "not guilty" is the outcome, the world will for a second be in uproar about "decreasing" moral (hence do nothing about it), the non-believers will scream and maybe attack Doc Murray as a murderer (who will have to search a safe haven - most likely outside the U.S.). Hate will continue to be spit on the Jackson family (which they know well by now).
The non-interested will put Michael as a drug addict to the records, the Jackson family will be one more time a bunch of typical Hollywood lunatics, the estate will continue to make money off Michael's unpublished songs and Michael will have a calm time with his family forever more.
But a "not guilty" is not correct either because Doc Murray did not act as a doctor with responsibility (according to his alleged statement).
This reminds much of the dilemma in "He who says yes" / "He who says no" by German author Bertold Brecht.
These are two theater plays about almost the same story - except one time the answer is "yes", one time the answer is "no". A controversy about society's values and whether individuals should bend for them.
These are scenes from a performance of Brooklyn College Academy:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related)
Whatever and however Michael likes to continue his life will be linked to the verdict.
As this is scripted already, we need not to worry.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 01, 2011, 12:16:53 PM
@WishingStar...Chianti always sounds good to me :)
Looks like Dr. White is done...HLN is saying that one more witness is gonna be called. The doc (I think she's a doc) that prepared those charts for White. After that...it's anyone's guess lol.
Grab the popcorn folks and tighten those seatbelts!
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 01, 2011, 12:50:26 PM
I also agree 100% BeTheChange and Grace. Guilty is the correct verdict given our understanding of the surface level things of what has been presented and according to Murray's own words. I also agree with the interpretation of BACK's post; it seems obvious he was speaking of the death of public and not-so-public figures. Our leaders have been dying for years in strange, yet eerily similar ways with no satisfying answer for those who want truth. Because of the questions these deaths created by "conspiracy theorists" as we're called, they began changing the many methods in which they could get rid of someone they no longer needed in various ways, suicide, overdose, natural causes ect. therefore less people question anything and that alone is frightening.
The reason why TPTB can get away with such things is because of their connections in the medical field, judicial system ect. Freemasons work in all of these fields in powerful positions and if needed for 'hire' they're available.
I've read by some people here that if Murray was used in this way he wouldn't go to trial nor prison, but that is far from the truth. Again making cases like this more believable. If they have connections, the higher up help, work to get lower charges like manslaughter vs. muder, house arrest vs. prison ect. That is the point; although many who have been used in such ways by TPTB can end up in prison for life. So it is always good to keep all possibilities open.
That being said I believe this is both a hoax/sting exposing that system (gov), the medias propaganda, the publics unawareness and the corrupt medical field.
P.s. There is a great channel speaking about the intricate workings of the gov and their puppets on this youtube channel for those interested: www.youtube.com/lolfieldandlove.
Post by: Sarahli on November 01, 2011, 01:46:52 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 01, 2011, 01:47:08 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 01, 2011, 01:47:24 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 01, 2011, 01:55:47 PM
Lol @ the statements by the judge to jury. He basically told them to put a blind fold on, ear plugs, and they might as well crawl in a box and glue themselves in it until Thursday. To summarize his instructions: "Do not think for yourself" oh, justice system.
oh he went on and on and on didnt he.... heaven forbid the jury 'stumble' upon truth....
Post by: SimPattyK on November 01, 2011, 02:02:07 PM
The 5th of November is an important date in the hoax so we can expect something important/significant to happen that day, right? I hope so. mj_dance/^^I also expect something on 11th Nov. 2011 ----)) 11.11.11
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 01, 2011, 02:07:18 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 01, 2011, 02:10:44 PM
Edit: Is anyone still watching HLN? Their comments are interesting. First of all Dr. White's need to speak to media and fans continues, he seems anxious to want to speak.
A lawyer pointed out that the impartiality with expert witnesses' is what their needed for, just their expert opinion, but the witnesses in this case seem to have an "axe to grind" and they dont know what it is. He then laughed and said "something else is going on here but I'm not sure what it is." then, they all laughed in amusement. Something is definitely going on.. :)
Post by: paula-c on November 01, 2011, 02:22:16 PM
@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
Look at the family their actions and reactions
Post by: fordtocarr on November 01, 2011, 02:33:35 PM
Also, they said this could boomerang on the defense!! And that there are "those in the KNOW" about the whole thing!
I love how they seem to be dropping clues..although I know the consensus is they are not in on it..which makes what they say even more amazing.
Post by: curls on November 01, 2011, 02:54:13 PM
I know this is all an illusion so it's going to go however the illusionist wants it to go, but how, in heaven's name can they finish up this trial basing everything on assumptions. They've spent 22 days to-ing and fro-ing when ALL the jury can really go on is what Murray said in his interview with police, in which he basically set himself up.
I'd be screaming in frustration if I was a juror, with so many basic questions I'd want answering, from Murray and people who were actually there around 25th June, instead of getting day after day after day of speculative simulations, assumptions and impressive sounding but contradictory medical 'evidence' from so called experts.
TS - please, I hope you call by soon! I have in mind how you have tried to help us come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in court. I wish the lawyers in this case had done the same and had come up with the same conclusion as we have.
Post by: Grace on November 01, 2011, 03:19:00 PM
1) let them ask questions, not the lawyers
2) allow them to educate themselves, think for themselves and
3) make the timing of the trial dependent on whether the jury decides to have full clear sight on the topics.
The jury is the most important apparatus in this cube of criminal trials but has no weight.
The 6 sides of the cube are:
- judge = meeting moderator, keeper of rules, decider of what is accepted in court and what jumps off the cliff
- public = meeting witnesses, keepers of transparency ideal
- media = meeting documentator ("notes-taker") and distributor, keeper of transparency ideal but actually falsifier of facts with their colouring of opinions
- the defense = representative of the accused, trying to achieve the best result for their client (being paid upon success regardless if accused is guilty or not)
- the prosecution = representative of the government (not the people), trying to get society's rules respected by publicly blaming the accused
- the jury (having no say in the whole play except the verdict)
Missing in this cube are:
- the accused
- the victim (or relatives - must seek a private lawsuit after the criminal case on their own expenses)
That's a HUGE general issue in all criminal cases in the U.S..
All kind of folks are giving the cat sneaking around the milk pot and having their more or less important say but the essential is not met.
Quote
In Anglophone jurisdictions, the verdict may be guilty, not guilty, or (in Scotland) not proven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_proven). Juries are composed of jurors (also sometimes known as jurymen), who are by definition layman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layman) finders of fact, not professionals.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury)
[...]
The jury arrangement has evolved out of the earliest juries, which were found in early medieval England. Members were supposed to inform themselves of crimes and then of the details of the crimes. Their function was therefore closer to that of a grand jury than that of a jury in a trial.
So it is safe to say that today's juries are far less competent by definition and current laws than those juries found in early Middle Ages in England.
A toast to the Cali 32 star seal.
Post by: raphaelleanique on November 01, 2011, 03:50:28 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 01, 2011, 04:33:54 PM
The 5th of November is an important date in the hoax so we can expect something important/significant to happen that day, right? I hope so. mj_dance/
YES sister,5 NOVEMBER is a very important day because on that day ANONYMUS will bring FACEBOOK DOWN mj_bad/ mj_bad/ mj_bad/ mj_bad/ I can't wait because THE ILLUSION HAS TO STOP,once and for all smiley_spider!!!!
5 November.
Facebook.
Take.
IT.
DOWN!
Post by: Grace on November 01, 2011, 04:53:44 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 01, 2011, 05:05:37 PM
Blessings, LOVE and LIGHT!
Post by: PureLove on November 01, 2011, 05:45:59 PM
You are right, BeTheChange ...
I think verdict should be "guilty".
I agree, BeTheChange. "Guilty" will point to reckless corrupt doctors - who are already existing and are making quite a lot of money without raising any eyebrow. "Not guilty" would open doors for "Drs Feelgood" to just go ahead and expand what they are already doing.
However, a "guilty" is no free ticket on this train. It is more complicated.
"Guilty"would be required for several reasons:
- despite the various theories elaborated in wildest speculations about what might have happened that day, Doc Murray had allegedly declared that he was not available when the person relying on him needed his competence. The various theories sneaking around the pit like a cat around the milk pot did not change any aspect of this statement.
So no matter what else happened, Doc Murray is guilty of neglect and missing care. In a moral common understanding, Doc Murray is guilty from his statement alone.
- "Guilty" would be "calming" those hostile souls whining for "revenge" on the murderer (for a while).
- "Guilty" is required to "calm" those who were nailed themselves in the trial: Dr. Shafer and Dr. White.
- "Guilty" is required following a dramaturgical logic to induce the wakeup and memory effect of shock for non-believers and non-interested: "it's not the way I thought".
- "Guilty" will put Doc Murray behind "bars" but not really as we learned from TMZ.
- "Guilty" holds the possibility of Michael returning and of a BAM.
But "guilty" is wrong since Doc Murray did not "kill" Michael.
If a "not guilty" is the outcome, the world will for a second be in uproar about "decreasing" moral (hence do nothing about it), the non-believers will scream and maybe attack Doc Murray as a murderer (who will have to search a safe haven - most likely outside the U.S.). Hate will continue to be spit on the Jackson family (which they know well by now).
The non-interested will put Michael as a drug addict to the records, the Jackson family will be one more time a bunch of typical Hollywood lunatics, the estate will continue to make money off Michael's unpublished songs and Michael will have a calm time with his family forever more.
But a "not guilty" is not correct either because Doc Murray did not act as a doctor with responsibility (according to his alleged statement).
This reminds much of the dilemma in "He who says yes" / "He who says no" by German author Bertold Brecht.
These are two theater plays about almost the same story - except one time the answer is "yes", one time the answer is "no". A controversy about society's values and whether individuals should bend for them.
These are scenes from a performance of Brooklyn College Academy:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0Gv97HO0A&feature=related)
Whatever and however Michael likes to continue his life will be linked to the verdict.
As this is scripted already, we need not to worry.
Amazing post Grace. I always thought that Murray was going to be found guilty. Therefore I made a post if believers would keep on believing if Murray goes to jail. If I thought the sting was against the judicial system he wasn't going to be found guilty but I believe that the purpose is to show the irresponsible doctors who fuel their patients with drugs. In this scenario, Murray needs to be found guilty and his innocence is going to be proven with Michael's BAM. Fits perfectly with the script. And like you wrote, we shouldn't worry because everything is under Michael's control.
Post by: Adi on November 01, 2011, 07:19:06 PM
Just wanted to throw that in here :)
Post by: wishingstar on November 01, 2011, 08:05:02 PM
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 01, 2011, 08:18:27 PM
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Post by: wishingstar on November 01, 2011, 08:33:02 PM
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Wow.......thank you for sharing that, I had no clue, lol. I have always thought (or maybe secretly hoped) Michael is a strong part of Disney.......it would be the coolest thing ever : ) Thanks again for letting us know all those amazing things that happened. I am indeed curious to what degree Michael is involved with media.....I just have a feeling it's an amazing scope:
TMZ
ABC/Disney
HLN/CNN
......I wonder if we can tie these together somehow suspicious// I will look around and see what I find....it will be nice to take my mind off things........
Blessings
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 01, 2011, 09:32:21 PM
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Thank you Grace for this information.. So even if we delete our profile in facebook they still have access t our information.. Wow. that is scary.. How can we erase everything in facebook? is there someway to have everything deleted and they do not have access?
Post by: ignisaeternus on November 01, 2011, 09:40:41 PM
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Interesting you mention DWTS- Immortal Tour will feature next week- 11/8... Which is one day before 11/9 (the reverse of 9/11)- which as Adi pointed out above is 7 days from opening statement. Hm...
I think it is also important that the verdict will happen in week 7 - unless it comes down this week (unlikely with OS starting Thursday)- or goes above a week (which I also doubt).
Illusionist, btw- is one of my favorite movies.... It was funny how no one in the media made the connection that this movie is about a faked death...
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 02, 2011, 01:45:39 AM
@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
Look at the family their actions and reactions
What are the actions and reactions of the Jackson fam?
@everyone, about November the 5th coming up does anybody expect something big?...Chandler was a shocker, I still can't get my head around that, is it a coincidence that he killed himself on that day or is he still alive, who knows?....it bugs me, I'm thinking of every option, but it makes no sense....
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 01:46:28 AM
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Thank you Grace for this information.. So even if we delete our profile in facebook they still have access t our information.. Wow. that is scary.. How can we erase everything in facebook? is there someway to have everything deleted and they do not have access?
No, there's no way back.
Unfortunately, the moment you have decided in favour of Facebook, your data are already stored and will not be deleted anymore. They have your data and they will keep your data no matter what you do on the surface.
Do not click on an "I like it" thumbs up Facebook button either.
It installs a tracker on your desktop to accompany you through thick and thin internet.
Do not "identify" persons on photos and provide data about those. Not on Facebook, not on Google+, nowhere.
This makes photos identifyable. Google is working since quite a while on their android to make a feature available that says: "shoot photo of a person with mobile phone, realtime search on google servers for name and data, display data on android (including address, likings, whatever is available). No fiction, this is real.
Google is the w*ore of data storage (and in the future: of connecting the dots).
You think it's all fun but in fact it's letting burglars into your home at free will.
Imagine only the webspace, database, servers, technical staff they are running in the background.
From what $$$ are they getting paid?
ALWAYS ask yourself how any internet presence is being paid for, how they make money to keep it alive.
Not everybody has a generous soul like Badkolo and Souza to provide our place for free. In fact this attitude is the absolute exception. The web is not a christian missionary place. It is about $$$ and about linking and bonding everybody in.
Surf with Mozilla, install the Ghostery and other privacy add-ons and you will see how many trackers are hidden on each website you are visiting and are tracking down your visits.
If you don't have to pay for a service, you will provide data instead. Data are $$$ and they are being sold in order to get you into profiling clusters for marketing purposes. That's how the web is being financed these days.
The moment you log on to Facebook, your profile is already worth 100 $$$ and the value increases each day.
There are huge privacy protection debates going on.
Even governmental agencies do use facebook (and of course trackers).
I read about an IT specialist (who should know you would say) being checked by colleagues wanting to see how far they could go finding private data about him in the web. They did not only find photos, names of the entire family, they found the car, the car registration, the bank accounts, the addresses, where he was spending vacation, that he had several kids from different moms, everything. The researchers were so kind to interrupt their research and tell their colleague.
There's young folks used to these social networks claiming that "what do they want to do with the data - I have nothing to hide and everything under control".
Well, we have seen how much we have everything under control, right?
It is letting the burglars into our homes, stealing our freedom our ancestors have lost their lives for.
Add the CCTV cameras on the streets, the chip in your i-phone, the great apps that deliver your GPS location and you know what's going on.
Do not touch Facebook. Google and Yahoo are alike. It is all the same sources.
Twitter was forced to deliver all wikileaks followers' IP addresses.
Each and every single tweet will be stored in the database of US Congress.
What they want to do with it?
Knowing what is being talked about is essential for strategies.
Why would they store all the text if they did not want to analyze it?
Knowledge in time is the key.
I am not saying, don't use the web.
I am saying: do it with wisdom and keep your treasures out of it.
Do NEVER give any private data out, not in boards, not in chat, not in email, never.
Post by: MJonmind on November 02, 2011, 02:00:29 AM
This whole hoax and trial ending is such a beautiful or delicious conundrum! Like chess, MJ the master has the opponent/s trapped 2 or 3 ways, guaranteed a checkmate. There really is this profound entertainment value behind this that goes with the hoax, but includes sting elements (the many ways citizens are being used by TPTB and not cared for). Mesereau has agreed with you here that this is a cliffhanger that could go either way, with problems and rammifications for guilty or not, just as Grace has explained so well.
Wishingstar, I like your thought on DWTS relating to the seal stars. MJ's hoax is in a way helping us to see another deeper layer behind so many themes around us today. The seal shows immigrants arriving to become citizens who pursue "the American dream"-- the pursuit of freedom, wealth and happiness. American Idols are being churned out by the dozens each season, and the word 'Idol' in the Bible is something worshipped made of wood, stone etc. that has no real power to help. Like MJ's song Hollywood Tonight, the girl is pursuing her dream but finds it only looks good from afar. MJ's hoax really is a fitting end to this age, and beginning to a new era of awakening and change.
UYI, one thing that bothers me about the Illusionist is that the Prince kills himself thinking he really killed Sophie. That is perhaps troubling morally for Eisenheim who created a deceiving and convincing illusion. And MJ’s illusions can in reality have an effect on people. There were reports of suicide after June 25 but apparently they were not true. Evan Chandler did commit suicide Nov. 18,09 and we don’t know how far reaching at that time were MJ’s future plans for this hoax. Maybe EC did not actually die, and the Illusionist is only a movie.
Post by: bec on November 02, 2011, 02:02:55 AM
Too late for most of us.
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 02:08:54 AM
They collect a book about a face.
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 02, 2011, 02:14:26 AM
It was only reported a few days later or something that he died on November the 5th, so maybe, he didn't die on November 5th but a little bit later in November. And it was said Nov 5th, to fit in with the hoax or something like that, but I have no clue.
Post by: bec on November 02, 2011, 02:16:45 AM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 02, 2011, 04:51:37 AM
Quote
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0[/youtube]
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Grace believe me "I KNOW " about the second video ,but if you think that what I said is NOT TRUE,then you are wrong.Anonymus will DO IT and it will be exactly like they did with SONY PALYSTATION site 8-).Talking about PLAYING GAMES, yes it's a GAME,a mind GAME,a NEVER ENDIG GAME,and it will NEVER STOP until we will be AT PEACE with OURSELVES.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.switched.com/media/2011/04/opsony-thumb-640xauto-20867.jpg)
"The statement also refers to Sony’s recent court win that allowed the company to collect the IP addresses of any user who had visited GeoHot’s site. “You have victimized your customers for merely possessing information, and continue to target every person who seeks this information,” the statement reads. “In so doing you have violated the privacy of thousands.”
In the END it's always about L.O.V.E. !!!
Post by: raphaelleanique on November 02, 2011, 05:41:58 AM
Post by: Tink.I.Am on November 02, 2011, 06:31:48 AM
Quote from: TinkIAm
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6099/6289368740_a9d45b392d_z.jpg)
You know what: there is a thing I just thought of.
On this document (as we can see) it say Robert W Murray insted of R for Robert.
BUT MJ's other doctor is named Arnold William Klein.
What if Klein was Suppose to have played the part that Murray now is playing
OR they needed one of these documents.... Klein had one and let them use it, but they had to change the name on it
(not hard with todays computers) BUT they forgot to change the W to an R.
So this is infact belongs to Klein!
what do you think?
Post by: BeTheChange on November 02, 2011, 08:36:00 AM
Re: facebook. I saw this awhile back and it scared the living shit outta me lol. Unfortunately, in order to view it, you have to have a facebook acct and log into it....there is a reason for this which will become VERY clear once the video starts. I don't use facebook anymore...never really did other than to play some cool games....but after seeing this, I don't use it at all. Be forewarned...it's very well done but scary as hell (the thought of this happening). I'm not technically skilled enough to know if this 'scenario' could actually happen...but if I had to bet on it, I'd bet it could.
www.takethislollipop.com (http://www.takethislollipop.com)
About Anonymous and the November 5th 'takedown' of facebook. I had seen the first vid claiming they were taking Facebook down on the 5th....shortly after that I saw the other one saying it wasn't their claim. It's got me thinking that maybe the first vid was from TPTB (or a sinister group)...so that when/if Facebook does go down, it will look like it was Anonymous. Anonymous has been playing governments and corporations like fiddles...maybe TPTB are now 'playing' back. Should some catastrophic 'event' occur shortly afterwards...the most used 'social network' will not be available to the people.
Facebook, like any other 'tool', is not inherently 'evil' or 'good'....it is neutral. It is the use/mode/motive of the user that gives it meaning...either good or bad. There are those that 'use' Facebook for sinister purposes....but there are also many who 'use' it with good intentions. Facebook has been a lifeline for many in the (r)evolution movements going on...and that, in itself, shows the value of it when used for 'good' reasons. Either way, no matter what the 'tool' or 'technology', you gain something, you lose something. It's up to us to determine the risk(s) and evaluate if it's worth it.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. Still no TS I see :x
Post by: paula-c on November 02, 2011, 08:37:55 AM
@ilovemjforever maybe level 7 will be on 5th of Nov or 11/11/11.
So Janet is back in Aus...I just don't get it, what was so important in the trial that she had to come back, nothing that big happened, maybe she thought there would of been a verdict already (but I'm sure she knew that it would be delayed), so maybe it was just used to create confusion or a distraction maybe?
Look at the family their actions and reactions
What are the actions and reactions of the Jackson fam?
@everyone, about November the 5th coming up does anybody expect something big?...Chandler was a shocker, I still can't get my head around that, is it a coincidence that he killed himself on that day or is he still alive, who knows?....it bugs me, I'm thinking of every option, but it makes no sense....
If i am talking about the family their actions and reactions from which all of this begin, since the June 25, 2009, interviews, concerts, travel to promote books, realitys
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 02, 2011, 09:44:47 AM
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 11:28:19 AM
applehead, I did not say that you were wrong.
I said, there is a counter revolution to take into account.
BeTheChange was getting at that as well.
It's physics.
Post by: curls on November 02, 2011, 11:37:17 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on November 02, 2011, 11:45:10 AM
Anyone else wish TS would make an appearance - and Front (I can't even find the Back thread any more, it's been so long!)?
x10
Looks like they're all on HIatus...and they don't take bribes :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: wishingstar on November 02, 2011, 11:56:04 AM
Anyone else wish TS would make an appearance - and Front (I can't even find the Back thread any more, it's been so long!)?
x10
Looks like they're all on HIatus...and they don't take bribes :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
x7 :lol:
no bribes, well it looks like we can rule out that TS is a politician......ouch.......I'm kidding! :shock: :lol:
*if you ever have posted on a thread, check your own profile/posts.......the threads are all there....I find it's easier than trying to remember where they might be listed under on the main directory page. Hope that helps.........
Have a great day!
Blessings
Post by: _Anna_ on November 02, 2011, 12:04:13 PM
Go and look
http://www.tmz.com/
EDIT:
For whoever lost it, here is a screen shot
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3346/californiaseal.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/californiaseal.jpg/)
And here the camera is clearily live filming the seal, because you see it moving, while on Murray's trial the frame is still, photo like, not camera filming the wall. It's still, like a background image, not moving. If you get what I mean.
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 02, 2011, 12:11:43 PM
Why not the same screen frame like for Murray's trial? This one is clearily filmed (it's not still) and it has 31 stars
Anna.. no idea!! :lol: Because Murray's one is a sham??
Post by: curls on November 02, 2011, 12:29:25 PM
@wishingstar, thanks for the reminder about checking my posts to find old threads. (Have you also discovered the nifty 'right click' feature that's a neat short cut to our profiles?)
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 12:35:13 PM
Joe was in German town Carolinensiel in spring.
"Caroline's siel" - Carol again.
"siel" is being pronounced like "seal" and means a tunnel construct through a dike for water regulation.
One might be reminded of a secret tunnel to break a wall as well.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Boomh%C3%B6hl_un_St%C3%A4ndersiel.JPG/300px-Boomh%C3%B6hl_un_St%C3%A4ndersiel.JPG)
A "siel" is a standard mechanism to regulate water according to tides at Belgian and Dutch coasts as well.
Joe arrived on March 6 (=9).
Joe posed with a stuffed seal.
The seal had a red clown's nose.
There was a local report in Germany about Joe repeatedly visiting Carolinensiel in North Germany.
http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen/oldenburg/jackson257.html (http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen/oldenburg/jackson257.html)
There's a video on this site (in German) where the clown seal is prominently shown.
This was the only report in English about it:
Quote
Michael Jackson's father relaxes on Germany's North Sea coast Mar 7, 2011, 16:03 GMThttp://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1624223.php/Michael-Jackson-s-father-relaxes-on-Germany-s-North-Sea-coast (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1624223.php/Michael-Jackson-s-father-relaxes-on-Germany-s-North-Sea-coast)
Carolinensiel, Germany - Michael Jackson's father Joe has been enjoying massages, winter sunshine and long walks along the beach during a stay on Germany's North Sea coast, the family's European manager Ralf Sesselberg said Monday.
'He is having massages and being spoilt,' Sesselberg said of the father of the late King of Pop who died in 2009.
Jackson, 82, was staying in the spa resort of Carolinensiel- Harlesiel, a small fishing community that he has visited on five previous occasions.
'He finds the people so pleasant. They are friendly, but keep their distance,' Sesselberg said.
Jackson is to spend about three weeks in northern Germany, including shopping trips to Hamburg and a visit to a ship in the port town of Wilhelmshaven.
The Jackson family patriarch has been writing a book about his family's history, his manager said. The holiday was a welcome break from his busy schedule in the US.
'He is enjoying the peace,' Sesselberg said.
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 02, 2011, 12:56:31 PM
Please don't ever say any bad word about Joe Jackson.
- I remember him with that seal.. .... do you know why he had a seal?
[please, reasonable explanation for my "non-believer" friend!]
I thought it's some event, about protecting seals :lol: apparently nope?
Post by: MissG on November 02, 2011, 01:13:37 PM
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 01:24:20 PM
If you ask me, I think this is unlikely since Europe is not Hollywood . Usually Europeans don't exaggerate about trivializing animals except in theme parks. Which means stuffed toys will be more resembling living creatures than Mickey Mouse. So I would rule the red nose as existing on that mascot out unless somebody comes up with it and proves it.
In fact, yes, maybe this photo shooting was all koinkidance and Joe was just asked to pose for an article in local papers.
Still.
Why are they standing in front of a house with the seal directly being photographed in front of the letters
Q U E L L (which means "source")?
There are far better motives for a journalist's photo for local press - the port, the sea gulls, the sea, the beach, whatever. But they choose a house corner holding the seal in front of letters giving the word "source".
???
I have "un"learned to think in terms of koinkidances here. :lol:
I think Joe's presentation was no koinkidance.
So we are back to the seal and why it has 31 stars in Lindsay Lohan's court room and 32 in Doc Murray's.
Michael as a (additional) star being in that room all the time. This never left my mind.
What and who are the source / origin of the seal?
Did we miss anything so far? I am no expert in U.S. history. Anybody an idea?
Quote
Original 1849 Description
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 01:27:21 PM
Is Caroline Siel a "real" person? Gosh, I see people with hoax eyes all the time. Her smile, face, all looks odd to me. Maybe that´s the way she looks but...
It's the town's name, not a person.
Carolinensiel. ;)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 02, 2011, 01:45:49 PM
One last sentence on FB from my side and then I will move on and return to the kangaroo trial:
applehead, I did not say that you were wrong.
I said, there is a counter revolution to take into account.
BeTheChange was getting at that as well.
It's physics.
Grace I feel that you know what I 'm talking about.I'm here in tears because I see that people are
missing the POINT here.Michael is the BEST I ever saw,to TEACH people the BIBLE.He is not what people think he is,he was and forever be human,like everyone here on this forum.Beside of us he was BLESSED to know MORE,because he had GOD in his heart all this time.He knows THE TRUTH,he knows that it was never about who's BLACK or WHITE, who's BAD or GOOD, or who's a BELIEVER or a NON BELIEVER.It was ABOUT BALANCE,in LIFE,you know STUCK in THE MIDDLE :lol:.He told this so many times but NOBODY really LISTEN.
I hope I did not offend you earlier :(,I LOVE you.
Post by: paula-c on November 02, 2011, 02:41:00 PM
Applehead, if you rely on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLxiMemYc0)
there's a counter-revolution to take into account as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ig4bZawisQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Trojan horses everywhere. Division and selection.
Thank you Grace for this information.. So even if we delete our profile in facebook they still have access t our information.. Wow. that is scary.. How can we erase everything in facebook? is there someway to have everything deleted and they do not have access?
No, there's no way back.
Unfortunately, the moment you have decided in favour of Facebook, your data are already stored and will not be deleted anymore. They have your data and they will keep your data no matter what you do on the surface.
Do not click on an "I like it" thumbs up Facebook button either.
It installs a tracker on your desktop to accompany you through thick and thin internet.
Do not "identify" persons on photos and provide data about those. Not on Facebook, not on Google+, nowhere.
This makes photos identifyable. Google is working since quite a while on their android to make a feature available that says: "shoot photo of a person with mobile phone, realtime search on google servers for name and data, display data on android (including address, likings, whatever is available). No fiction, this is real.
Google is the w*ore of data storage (and in the future: of connecting the dots).
You think it's all fun but in fact it's letting burglars into your home at free will.
Imagine only the webspace, database, servers, technical staff they are running in the background.
From what $$$ are they getting paid?
ALWAYS ask yourself how any internet presence is being paid for, how they make money to keep it alive.
Not everybody has a generous soul like Badkolo and Souza to provide our place for free. In fact this attitude is the absolute exception. The web is not a christian missionary place. It is about $$$ and about linking and bonding everybody in.
Surf with Mozilla, install the Ghostery and other privacy add-ons and you will see how many trackers are hidden on each website you are visiting and are tracking down your visits.
If you don't have to pay for a service, you will provide data instead. Data are $$$ and they are being sold in order to get you into profiling clusters for marketing purposes. That's how the web is being financed these days.
The moment you log on to Facebook, your profile is already worth 100 $$$ and the value increases each day.
There are huge privacy protection debates going on.
Even governmental agencies do use facebook (and of course trackers).
I read about an IT specialist (who should know you would say) being checked by colleagues wanting to see how far they could go finding private data about him in the web. They did not only find photos, names of the entire family, they found the car, the car registration, the bank accounts, the addresses, where he was spending vacation, that he had several kids from different moms, everything. The researchers were so kind to interrupt their research and tell their colleague.
There's young folks used to these social networks claiming that "what do they want to do with the data - I have nothing to hide and everything under control".
Well, we have seen how much we have everything under control, right?
It is letting the burglars into our homes, stealing our freedom our ancestors have lost their lives for.
Add the CCTV cameras on the streets, the chip in your i-phone, the great apps that deliver your GPS location and you know what's going on.
Do not touch Facebook. Google and Yahoo are alike. It is all the same sources.
Twitter was forced to deliver all wikileaks followers' IP addresses.
Each and every single tweet will be stored in the database of US Congress.
What they want to do with it?
Knowing what is being talked about is essential for strategies.
Why would they store all the text if they did not want to analyze it?
Knowledge in time is the key.
I am not saying, don't use the web.
I am saying: do it with wisdom and keep your treasures out of it.
Do NEVER give any private data out, not in boards, not in chat, not in email, never.
I had an account FB and cancel ... but i have made a lot of mistakes with my e-mail accounts, sometimes i do things without thinking much that is my problem, i am trying to correct this..
Post by: Grace on November 02, 2011, 02:57:10 PM
I appreciate your thoughts very much.
bearhug
Add. to Joe Jackson in Germany:
the announcement in the display case behind him says 9. Nov 2009.
9/11 seen with different eyes.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 02, 2011, 04:12:42 PM
& TS where ARE you hiding >.< ?
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 02, 2011, 04:30:57 PM
(http://www.kwekkeboom.net/images/nieuw/Stroopwafels.jpg)
Post by: PureLove on November 02, 2011, 04:52:29 PM
Go quickly on tmz and see they show the seal from Lindsay's trial and the seal has 31 stars. It is indeed on another background, but it's the same court and same seal. Why not the same screen frame like for Murray's trial? This one is clearily filmed (it's not still) and it has 31 stars
Go and look
http://www.tmz.com/
EDIT:
For whoever lost it, here is a screen shot
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3346/californiaseal.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/californiaseal.jpg/)
And here the camera is clearily live filming the seal, because you see it moving, while on Murray's trial the frame is still, photo like, not camera filming the wall. It's still, like a background image, not moving. If you get what I mean.
Amazing catch Anna. /bravo/ This is just another proof that the CM trial is fake.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 02, 2011, 05:23:39 PM
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 02, 2011, 06:45:56 PM
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Wow.......thank you for sharing that, I had no clue, lol. I have always thought (or maybe secretly hoped) Michael is a strong part of Disney.......it would be the coolest thing ever : ) Thanks again for letting us know all those amazing things that happened. I am indeed curious to what degree Michael is involved with media.....I just have a feeling it's an amazing scope:
TMZ
ABC/Disney
HLN/CNN
......I wonder if we can tie these together somehow suspicious// I will look around and see what I find....it will be nice to take my mind off things........
Blessings
I noticed all the same things you guys did! I almost lost it when JB did his sideways moonwalk. moonwalk_/ That and the Spider were pretty blatant. smiley_spider LOL And next week Cirq? Wow. It was quite a night... Nancy Dis-Grace was saved AGAIN. I can't wait till that woman is voted off! I can't believe she's still there. But I agree it's interesting timing her being on the show while the trial is going on. When it was made known that Catherine and the kids love the show, I also thought Michael was involved; esp with one of his background singers there.
I think it's pretty likely SOMETHING will happen either Nov 5th; remember remember the 5th of November, or 11-11-11. suspicious// TS has been too quiet so we're due. I missed Tues court session; this is my busy shopping week. I had the day off today along with a snow storm but there's NO Court. /overreacting/ Dang it I will miss tomorrow too! I guess I'll have to record it and watch some videos so I can catch up.
bearhug to all.
Post by: valerie68 on November 02, 2011, 06:53:06 PM
One might think of a koinkidance that this town has that name and that they may have a stuffed seal as a mascot. Maybe they really have a seal with a red nose as a mascot there.
If you ask me, I think this is unlikely since Europe is not Hollywood . Usually Europeans don't exaggerate about trivializing animals except in theme parks. Which means stuffed toys will be more resembling living creatures than Mickey Mouse. So I would rule the red nose as existing on that mascot out unless somebody comes up with it and proves it.
In fact, yes, maybe this photo shooting was all koinkidance and Joe was just asked to pose for an article in local papers.
Still.
Why are they standing in front of a house with the seal directly being photographed in front of the letters
Q U E L L (which means "source")?
There are far better motives for a journalist's photo for local press - the port, the sea gulls, the sea, the beach, whatever. But they choose a house corner holding the seal in front of letters giving the word "source".
???
I have "un"learned to think in terms of koinkidances here. :lol:
I think Joe's presentation was no koinkidance.
So we are back to the seal and why it has 31 stars in Lindsay Lohan's court room and 32 in Doc Murray's.
Michael as a (additional) star being in that room all the time. This never left my mind.
What and who are the source / origin of the seal?
Did we miss anything so far? I am no expert in U.S. history. Anybody an idea?
QuoteOriginal 1849 Description
Hello! The place "Carolinensiel" really does have a little rednosed female seal as a mascot and its called "Carolinchen"
Joseph has quite often visited this place in the past years, bec he has got a branch office (? dont know if this is the right word)
for his representation in Europe in Rastede which is about 60 to 70 km away from the North Coast and the area around Carolinensiel. There quite a lot of other -siels in that area as well.
And QUELLE was not meant as "source", it was meant as "spring" like a thermal spring. Joe was just at some spa park/area when they took that picture and there he also had his massages and got spoiled there as they mentioned before.
Iam quite sure it is not related to the hoax at all. But speaking of the hoax, I ve got a feeling that Murray will be aquitted.
Why would they have made such an effort to copy as much details as they did from 2005's trial to have a different outcome?
OMG my english is probably terrible I hope everybody understands. I also would like to admit that I really appreciate everybodys hard work in here. I love this forum though Ive never been much of an active part here. But I stll havent lost my faith and Iam defently a believer!
Greetings to everybody! bearhug
Post by: paula-c on November 02, 2011, 09:18:29 PM
DOB 08/08/2008
exam date November 13, 2207 :shock: :lol:
(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/16/09/46/48/faranc10.jpg)
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 03, 2011, 01:01:09 AM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.0;topicseen
Post by: Grace on November 03, 2011, 01:37:41 AM
Hello! The place "Carolinensiel" really does have a little rednosed female seal as a mascot and its called "Carolinchen"
Joseph has quite often visited this place in the past years, bec he has got a branch office (? dont know if this is the right word)
for his representation in Europe in Rastede which is about 60 to 70 km away from the North Coast and the area around Carolinensiel. There quite a lot of other -siels in that area as well.
And QUELLE was not meant as "source", it was meant as "spring" like a thermal spring. Joe was just at some spa park/area when they took that picture and there he also had his massages and got spoiled there as they mentioned before.
Iam quite sure it is not related to the hoax at all. But speaking of the hoax, I ve got a feeling that Murray will be aquitted.
Why would they have made such an effort to copy as much details as they did from 2005's trial to have a different outcome?
OMG my english is probably terrible I hope everybody understands. I also would like to admit that I really appreciate everybodys hard work in here. I love this forum though Ive never been much of an active part here. But I stll havent lost my faith and Iam defently a believer!
Greetings to everybody! bearhug
Thank you for clearing that one up. That's exactly what we need.
So another dead end? Maybe, maybe not. LOL I think there's more to poppa Joe than meets the eye.
Post by: MJonmind on November 03, 2011, 04:08:17 AM
Quote
From the 5th to the 8th centuries, the Merovingian dynasty ruled Europe and, from the Middle Ages until the present day, most of Europe's monarchs have been of Jewish descent. The Merovingians kings claimed Jewish descent from King David, King Solomon and, posturing as Christians, from Jesus Christ through Mary Magdalene. The first Merovingian king of France, Clovis I, feigned conversion to Christianity in 496 A.D. along with his Jewish household and 3,000 of his Jewish warriors. “The royal emblem of the Merovingian king Clovis was the fleur-de-lis (the iris)...a masculine symbol. In fact, it is a graphic image of the covenant of circumcision... This three-pronged 'lily' is an ancient symbol for Israel: the capitals of the two phallic pillars of Solomon's Temple, Jachin and Boaz, were carved with 'lily work' (I Kings 7:22).” (936:62 (http://watch-unto-prayer.org/notes.html#r936))In 679 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church collaborated with the Carolingians to assassinate the Merovingian King Dagobert II. Dagobert's nephew, Childeric III, was deposed in 751 by Pepin III, the first of the Carolingian dynasty. In 800, Pepin's son, Charlemagne, was crowned Holy Roman Emperor, although his kingdom actually was the Frankish Empire. Charlemagne and the Carolingians married Merovingian Jews.“In fact, to consolidate his claim to the throne of the Franks, Charlemagne had himself married a Merovingian princess.” - 936 (http://watch.pair.com/notes.html#r936)Charlemagne was also Jewish, his descendants claiming the pedigree of tribe of Judah, whereas the Merovingians were of the apostate tribe of Dan (http://watch.pair.com/dan.html):[size=0pt]http://watch.pair.com/false-christ.html (http://watch.pair.com/false-christ.html) [/size]There's much historical detail...
Quote
Various myths have the Merovingians as descendants of theTrojans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy),[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty#cite_note-9)or of a five-headed sea monster known as theQuinotaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinotaur). The Merovingians are extensively featured in the bookThe Holy Blood and the Holy Grail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail), in which they are claimed to be the descendants ofJesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), based on ahoax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax)originating withPierre Plantard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Plantard)in the mid-20th century. The 2006 film,The Da Vinci Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code_(film)), based ona book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code)byDan Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Brown), is a fictional treatment of themes fromHoly Blood. In it the main character, Sophie, discovers that she is a descendant of the Merovingian blood line as well as that of Jesus Christ. The word "Merovingian" has even been used as an adjective, at least five times in Swann's Way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swann%27s_Way) by Marcel Proust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Proust).
The Merovingian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Merovingian) is the name of an antagonist in the second and third installments of The Matrix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix) trilogy.
[size=0pt]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty)[/size]
Would this relate to blood-line?
Post by: nick_93 on November 03, 2011, 04:09:36 AM
*very quick, very random thought on the talk about the stars on the CA seal..............
It's almost as if we/they are dancing around with the stars......as in Dancing with the Stars (on ABC/Disney owned)........don't know......told you it was random and just popped into my mind. Justin Bieber is performing tonight....I think. I don't typically watch that show......it used to be fun to watch, then for some reason, it changed.......oh well........just one of many random thoughts.......
Blessings to all..........
Funny you should mention Dancing with the stars, because I watched it last night and I saw so much happen last night that made me think that Michael is connected to it in some way! They used the Blue lighting that Michael loves so much, they had a HUGE 3d spider walking on the dance floor, Nancy Grace and her partner were wearing Michael's Black and Red colors, one of the dancers had a werewolf head on like in thriller, I saw a guy dancing like Michael....I can't remember everything, but it blew me away!! Then after that I watched Hawaii "50" and it was about someone who "Hoaxed their Death"!! they also mentioned walking Zombies and they did a police interegation in this room that was dark with only a blue light Illuminating them, not the usual brightly lit room that they usually use!! Then after that HLN did a little "tribute" montage to Michael!
Now I know last night was Halloween and we all know how much Michael loves Halloween, so all I can say is that Michael was everywhere last night!
AMAZING!
Wow.......thank you for sharing that, I had no clue, lol. I have always thought (or maybe secretly hoped) Michael is a strong part of Disney.......it would be the coolest thing ever : ) Thanks again for letting us know all those amazing things that happened. I am indeed curious to what degree Michael is involved with media.....I just have a feeling it's an amazing scope:
TMZ
ABC/Disney
HLN/CNN
......I wonder if we can tie these together somehow suspicious// I will look around and see what I find....it will be nice to take my mind off things........
Blessings
I noticed all the same things you guys did! I almost lost it when JB did his sideways moonwalk. moonwalk_/ That and the Spider were pretty blatant. smiley_spider LOL And next week Cirq? Wow. It was quite a night... Nancy Dis-Grace was saved AGAIN. I can't wait till that woman is voted off! I can't believe she's still there. But I agree it's interesting timing her being on the show while the trial is going on. When it was made known that Catherine and the kids love the show, I also thought Michael was involved; esp with one of his background singers there.
I think it's pretty likely SOMETHING will happen either Nov 5th; remember remember the 5th of November, or 11-11-11. suspicious// TS has been too quiet so we're due. I missed Tues court session; this is my busy shopping week. I had the day off today along with a snow storm but there's NO Court. /overreacting/ Dang it I will miss tomorrow too! I guess I'll have to record it and watch some videos so I can catch up.
bearhug to all.
Funny you should say that, I paused the CD I was listening to on my stereo before and came back like 2 hours later when I realized I forgot to turn it off and when I came back it said '5 0:11' for track 5 and 11 seconds. Here in Australia, our dates are opposite to in the Northern Hemisphere so it could be interpreted as 5/11. This obviously is not proof or anything factual but I like to believe I'm being led in the right way with everything in life and I believe everything happens for a reason so therefore I too feel something will happen on the 5th November. And with the Murray Trial coming to an end shortly, I really think something WILL happen soon rr/
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 03, 2011, 04:31:29 AM
TS either hoaxed his death or is still considering my offer to make stroopwafels for him in exchange for a nice little hint. lolol/ lolol/
(http://www.kwekkeboom.net/images/nieuw/Stroopwafels.jpg)
Does that have caramel in it or is it golden syrup?
@Anna, great catch....
So when Bec, Monster and I think Chosen called to inquire about the stars on the seal, one of you, whom I think it was Chosen, said that the person you were talking to on the phone said they would call you back or something in a few days, did they ever 'get around' to doing that?...
...you know it would be good to ask why the seal that was up for Lilo had the correct amount of stars and the one for Murray didn't...wonder how they would answer that...because I think Monster got a reply of 'it's done for TV' or something like that....but TMZ had both seals, and they are both a different amount of stars .
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on November 03, 2011, 07:48:51 AM
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
And just as a side note....my name on chat is a little different it's MJAlwaysandForever...when I made my nic I must have been sleeping because I did it opposite of this nic...lol :shock:
bearhug mj_bad/
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 03, 2011, 08:00:33 AM
Just want to share about the seal....in the first week of the trial I was watching on HLN and when they went to break one day. Someone must have messed up with the cameras because when it broke away from the courtroom, the angle we saw was from the side camera and for a brief moment it showed the main camera pointed at a easel like thing with the picture of the seal exactly like we see on the live feed. So it was just a picture, like a big poster. Ford saw it too as we were talking about it in chat that day. Just thought I'd share that, not sure if it has any significance or not.
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
bearhug mj_bad/
omg! so the still shot of the seal is just a shot of a picture.... classic. gee i love you MJ. xx
Post by: curls on November 03, 2011, 08:05:52 AM
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on November 03, 2011, 08:32:29 AM
Just want to share about the seal....in the first week of the trial I was watching on HLN and when they went to break one day. Someone must have messed up with the cameras because when it broke away from the courtroom, the angle we saw was from the side camera and for a brief moment it showed the main camera pointed at a easel like thing with the picture of the seal exactly like we see on the live feed. So it was just a picture, like a big poster. Ford saw it too as we were talking about it in chat that day. Just thought I'd share that, not sure if it has any significance or not.
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
And just as a side note....my name on chat is a little different it's MJAlwaysandForever...when I made my nic I must have been sleeping because I did it opposite of this nic...lol :shock:
bearhug mj_bad/
MJ_Forever, amazing that you & Ford catched that brief camera shot of the seal. This was a very subtile clue ;D I once noticed the lightning on the seal was brighter too, I found that odd.
Love you too MJ_Forever
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on November 03, 2011, 08:42:33 AM
TS either hoaxed his death or is still considering my offer to make stroopwafels for him in exchange for a nice little hint. lolol/ lolol/
(http://www.kwekkeboom.net/images/nieuw/Stroopwafels.jpg)
I'm sure that the stroopwafels are very tempting for TS, specially homemade by Souza :lol: :lol:
Post by: Mish1981 on November 03, 2011, 10:10:03 AM
Just want to share about the seal....in the first week of the trial I was watching on HLN and when they went to break one day. Someone must have messed up with the cameras because when it broke away from the courtroom, the angle we saw was from the side camera and for a brief moment it showed the main camera pointed at a easel like thing with the picture of the seal exactly like we see on the live feed. So it was just a picture, like a big poster. Ford saw it too as we were talking about it in chat that day. Just thought I'd share that, not sure if it has any significance or not.
LOVE & HUGS to my MJ Family!!! And Michael/TS/FRONT....We LOVE You MORE!!!! Hee Hee :)
And just as a side note....my name on chat is a little different it's MJAlwaysandForever...when I made my nic I must have been sleeping because I did it opposite of this nic...lol :shock:
bearhug mj_bad/
MJ_Forever, amazing that you & Ford catched that brief camera shot of the seal. This was a very subtile clue ;D I once noticed the lightning on the seal was brighter too, I found that odd.
Love you too MJ_Forever
I've noticed that also and it makes sense that it could be a picture and not the seal above the judge. It's almost like taking a picture of a picture, in the photo you can see the light from the flash. So if it were actually the seal above the judges head, the only way to get the lighting to hit the seal is if there is a bright light that is going to capture it. Does that make sense? At first I thought it was just a few letters and then decided against it.
Post by: bec on November 03, 2011, 10:14:42 AM
Doesn't much matter though. Whether it's a real seal or just a pic, someone added a 32nd star and that's just not an excusable "mistake". It is purposeful.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 03, 2011, 12:49:04 PM
Doesn't much matter though. Whether it's a real seal or just a pic, someone added a 32nd star and that's just not an excusable "mistake". It is purposeful.
love that teeny weeny little itty bitty 32nd star....
Post by: Suzy7 on November 03, 2011, 12:55:18 PM
And this is relevant in a homicide trial?
Post by: paula-c on November 03, 2011, 01:56:29 PM
PRESLEY'S DOCTOR ACQUITTED ON ALL PRESCRIPTION CHARGES
Special to the New York Times
Published: November 5, 1981
MEMPHIS, Nov. 4— Dr. George Nichopoulos was acquitted today of 11 counts of criminally overprescribing addictive drugs to Elvis Presley, the country-western singer Jerry Lee Lewis and seven other patients.
The jury of six men and six women deliberated just over three hours before reaching the unanimous verdict for the acquittal on all counts.
Dr. Nichopoulos, 54 years old, hugged his wife, Edna, after the verdict was returned and shook hands with friends and other family members, including his two daughters, Elaine and Chrissie, who had crowded into the Memphis courtroom.
''I'm truly happy for Dr. Nichopoulos,'' the defense attorney, James F. Neal, said. ''I think he's been harassed for years. He is very thankful.''
Two of the jurors later congratulated Mr. Neal on his handling of the case. Directed Acquittal on 3 Counts
Judge Bernie Weinman of Criminal Court had directed acquittal of three counts against Dr. Nichopolous last week. The decision came after a witness for the prosecution had testified that there could have been a valid medical justification for the drugs the doctor was charged with prescribing for himself and a patient, Robert Deason.
In final arguments before the jury retired, Dr. Nichopoulos, who was indicted last January, was alternately portrayed as a kindhearted samaritan and as a physician with almost total disregard for accepted standards of medical practice.
Mr. Neal argued in his closing statement that Dr. Nichopoulos was a ''good samaritan'' who treated drug-dependent patients whom no other doctor wanted to accept.
''I can't think of anything that fits Dr. Nichopoulos better,'' Mr. Neal told the jury, referring to the biblical parable. ''Dr. George Nichopoulos is the man -the man who stopped and looked at these people and then offered to help. You are judging the samaritan.'' Prosecutors' View
However, the prosecutors, Jim Wilson and Jewett Miller, had another interpretation of Dr. Nichopoulos's actions. He was, they said, a physician who abused his authority in dispensing dangerous and addictive drugs.
In three weeks of testimony, the prosecutors showed that Dr. Nichopoulos prescribed more than 19,000 doses of narcotics, sedatives and stimulants to Mr. Presley in the 31 1/2 months before the entertainer died Aug. 16, 1977.
They also showed that he prescribed a variety of stimulants and sedatives to Mr. Lewis and the other patients. Dr. Nichopoulos acknowledged from the witness stand that he had prescribed the drugs, but he said many of those prescribed for Mr. Presley were thrown away or substituted with placebos, harmless, inert substances. Patients Already Had Problem
He also said all nine patients mentioned in the 11-count indictment had been getting drugs from other sources and already had a drug problem when they first came to him for treatment. Dr. Nichopolous said he gave them drugs in the hope of eliminating the other drug sources and then, once he became their sole supplier, weaning them from their drug dependency.
The prosecutors, who called 13 witnesses to the stand, were unable to establish clearly any other motive for the prescriptions. Dr. Nichopoulos received loans totaling $280,000 from Mr. Presley, but they were properly signed and executed and are being repaid, according to Beecher Smith, the attorney for the entertainer's estate.
Dr. Nichopoulos made little money from the other patients mentioned in the indictment, testimony showed. Mr. Lewis, for instance, paid an average of $9.10 for each examination he received from Dr. Nichopoulos. Internist's Testimony
Nonetheless, Dr. Alvin Cummins, a Memphis internist, testified that he could find no legitimate medical reason for any of the patients to receive the drugs. Such prescriptions, he said, were clearly contrary to accepted standards of medical practice.
However, Dr. Forest Tennant Jr., a drug researcher at the University of California at Los Angeles and one of 14 defense witnesses, said Dr. Nichopoulos might have made the wisest possible medical choice in prescribing the drugs while attempting to control the patients' intake.
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/11/05/us/presley-s-doctor-acquitted-on-all-prescription-charges.html
Post by: Andrea on November 03, 2011, 02:15:22 PM
"In final arguments before the jury retired, Dr. Nichopoulos, who was indicted last January, was alternately portrayed as a kindhearted samaritan and as a physician with almost total disregard for accepted standards of medical practice."
Sounds very familiary, doesn't it?
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 03, 2011, 02:27:14 PM
Thank you Paula, that's very interesting that a verdict could be reached exactly 30 years after Elvis' doctor.
"In final arguments before the jury retired, Dr. Nichopoulos, who was indicted last January, was alternately portrayed as a kindhearted samaritan and as a physician with almost total disregard for accepted standards of medical practice."
Sounds very familiary, doesn't it?
Wow, that would be another clear IN YO' FACE Elvis connection. LOL
Post by: paula-c on November 03, 2011, 03:21:41 PM
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/11/03/1103-walgren-01.jpg)
Post by: fatalkiss26 on November 03, 2011, 03:33:54 PM
Also, Walgren kinda flubbed words today when he was reading, instead of "act" he slipped twice by calling Conrad an "actor"...anyone else catch that??
Post by: Suzy7 on November 03, 2011, 05:15:21 PM
Post by: fatalkiss26 on November 03, 2011, 05:32:43 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 03, 2011, 05:55:23 PM
Gotta love Walgren referring to Dr. Whites' testimony as "garbage and junk science."
Edit: Paula mentioned the garbage bin and if you look at it while Walgren was speaking it was empty, afterwards it was filled with garbage. Maybe nothing :).
Post by: _Anna_ on November 03, 2011, 06:17:03 PM
"Closing arguments are over. We're outside the courthouse, streaming LIVE as the courtroom empties out.
A verdict is expected as early as tomorrow"
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 03, 2011, 06:23:39 PM
I think they'll find him guilty :? but have no idea really. Toya promised
us "guilty" :lol:
Know what's sad, if it all ends with this fall guy getting laughable months
"locked" at his house and this is how it all ends. Hoax or no hoax, this
should NOT end like this! :cry:
"Real MJ fans" think both hoaxers and conspiracy theorists {and LaToya}
are lunatics, but this is being short-sighted IMHO. It's all either much brighter or
much darker than it looks! If MJ himself was telling again and again about conspiracy
and danger, why suddenly deciding he was just paranoid? Talk about disrespect
and underestimation. I would rather overestimate him {if it's possible at all!} than
make him "so naive yet paranoid he was like a helpless nutty baby all the time, couldn't
protect himself at all".
Post by: Sarahli on November 03, 2011, 06:25:40 PM
Some key words: Movie - reality show - experiment - tv - conspiracy - agenda - truth seeking
Post by: MissG on November 03, 2011, 06:29:21 PM
Is Caroline Siel a "real" person? Gosh, I see people with hoax eyes all the time. Her smile, face, all looks odd to me. Maybe that´s the way she looks but...
It's the town's name, not a person.
Carolinensiel. ;)
Thanks for the clarification
Post by: MissG on November 03, 2011, 06:40:44 PM
Okaaay.
"Real MJ fans" think both hoaxers and conspiracy theorists {and LaToya}
are lunatics,
Who cares what they think. In our daily "real" life we are highly respected professionals and persons (I am, for the record).
To think that Murray is not guilty is nothing wrong. There were more people in that mansion the day MJ "died" and most of them, Álvarez included as per his statement in court, were lacking payments I understood? So, who negelgted who for money? Murray or Michael´s security staff? the same staff that Michael´s siblings say did not let Michael and them meet?
The so called propofol/ neglection/ Doctors caring for money instead of the patients situation happens in American hospitals and other practices...no money no cure, and that´s a fact.
Murray´s patients talked about the help he gave for free, so i doubt he was that money hungry.
The one that apparently went out asking for medical bills to be paid out was Arnold Klein...plus 40.000 usd were the bills according to the file.
Imo, all this Murray/Jackson trial has to do with something deeper that affected Michael at some point during his life. Murray paying for the "death" would be just wrong.
Post by: Sarahli on November 03, 2011, 07:29:58 PM
Post by: MissG on November 03, 2011, 07:37:36 PM
Post by: PureLove on November 03, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
Has anyone heard when Chernoff said to the jury "pay attention to the man behind the curtain"? I thought it was a pretty much interesting statement but I have no idea who he was talking about. He also said (with a malicious look) that "Murray was a little fish in a big dirty bowl" -- I think it's "bowl" not sure. Well, it kind of implied that there was something bigger going on. Hmmm.
afraid/
The man behind the curtain is Michael. OMG!
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 03, 2011, 07:51:12 PM
see picture below... what 'blockbuster are they talking about'
did i miss something... thanks in advance for any helpful responses.
(http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k594/Australianbeliever/conrad.jpg)
Post by: pepper on November 03, 2011, 08:01:20 PM
At 2:58 they superimpose the 32 star California seal next to a TII photo of Michael !!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45157170#45157170
Go quickly on tmz and see they show the seal from Lindsay's trial and the seal has 31 stars. It is indeed on another background, but it's the same court and same seal. Why not the same screen frame like for Murray's trial? This one is clearily filmed (it's not still) and it has 31 stars
Go and look
http://www.tmz.com/
EDIT:
For whoever lost it, here is a screen shot
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3346/californiaseal.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/californiaseal.jpg/)
Post by: pepper on November 03, 2011, 08:11:14 PM
WATCH NBC NEWS VIDEO ABOUT TODAY'S TRIAL (11/03/11) AT THIS LINK-
At 2:58 they superimpose the 32 star California seal next to a TII photo of Michael !!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45157170#45157170
Post by: PureLove on November 03, 2011, 08:31:56 PM
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/440875084.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1320371139&Signature=3B3czh78CdUBQqwkyfBzig51sNI%3D)
Post by: fordtocarr on November 03, 2011, 08:34:29 PM
Either way it reminds me of THE WIZ!!!!!!!
Post by: fatalkiss26 on November 03, 2011, 08:38:10 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on November 03, 2011, 08:50:10 PM
can someone please help me with this... sorry, needed to get attention to this post.. i googled conrad murrays name. a url for an article by TMZ came up in search results that indicates someone is making a blockbuster documentary.... when i click on the link the page says that it has been removed...
see picture below... what 'blockbuster are they talking about'
did i miss something... thanks in advance for any helpful responses.
(http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k594/Australianbeliever/conrad.jpg)
I'm not surprised at ALL that that post on TMZ would disappear!!!
We've found on here that things like that have happened all along the way with the hoax these past years!! LOL ;)
I'm also not surprised about a blockbuster documentary being made!! Actually, I'd hope that it would all be a docu because being just a movie would be soooo boring. I'm thinking though, that a documentary would be very telling about just what this hoax is FOR!! At least the trial. I doubt that Murray could purse a movie, but we sure know who could!! Also, would the court allow this all to be filmed with INTENT of a documentary??? I doubt that'd be ethical.
But, a fake court, a documentary in reality being filmed to expose God only knows at this point???
OH YEAH!!
Post by: BeTheChange on November 03, 2011, 08:53:31 PM
"The man behind the curtain"..."This isn't a reality show, it's reality"...Chernoff was on a roll. He played his part very well....and Walgren deserves an award when this is all over.
It's the most freaky but satisfying feeling to think that 99% of the world thinks they are watching 'reality'...when what it really is, is an illusion. Not just the trial...but everything that's occured surrounding MJ's 'death', on June 25th, 2009 and after. Kinda like how 99% of the world thinks the world we see and live in each day is 'reality'...when, in fact, it's all an illusion created by the 'elite', the 1%. Mike has truly flipped the pyramid...and we are now the 1%, with him at the helm...behind the curtain ;)
We are also just one layer...and this 'pie' has been cooking, for what feels like forever :lol: And we know Mike...it will be ready when he thinks it's ready and that will only be when it's perfect. That's just one of the reasons to love Mike...his perfectionism in everything he touches is admirable and rare. All he's asked from us is our patience...and Lord knows it's tough at times (it's been amost 2 1/2 years Mike!?!?!...it's perfect already bow/)...but I'm thinking IT will be worth the wait.
Wondering if Level 7 will be pre-verdict (which would probably mean a verdict next week so we have a few days to discuss the level :lol:)...or will it be post-verdict (in which case I hope the verdict is read tomorrow lol). Where the heck are ya TS???
With L.O.V.E. always.
@Australian MJ BeLIEver...great catch with the TMZ/Google screenshot. Nothing like being at the right place, at the right time!
Post by: fordtocarr on November 03, 2011, 09:03:04 PM
I can't post the article because MY STUPID satellite, of course..nothing comes up...but..type it in any maybe you can get it so we all know JUST what this is about !!
Post by: monstertooty on November 03, 2011, 09:05:37 PM
May be unrelated but who knows. :|
Post by: Vietnow on November 03, 2011, 09:06:00 PM
Post by: PureLove on November 03, 2011, 09:06:23 PM
Post by: fordtocarr on November 03, 2011, 09:09:46 PM
Last Updated: 12:22 AM, November 2, 2011
Posted: 12:06 AM, November 2, 2011
| More Print
While Dr. Conrad Murray stands trial for the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson, he’s been quietly filming a blockbuster documentary that’s being shopped to major TV networks.
Sources say Murray, who announced yesterday that he will not testify in his defense, has sold the rights “to his story” to a production company that’s been filming interviews with him daily as the trial progresses.
The unidentified production company is shopping the documentary as a package deal that would also include a video diary and a sit-down interview with Murray.
Conrad Murray
UPI
Conrad Murray
“A news division that pays for the documentary will end up with a side deal of getting the sit-down with Conrad,” a source said. “It’s crafted in such a way for a news division that doesn’t pay for interviews.”
We hear the production outfit has been aiming to sell the documentary for $1 million. It is not clear how much would go to Murray.
“They have already filmed a long interview in case he’s taken into custody,” a source told Page Six.
CNN was interested in buying the footage, one source said, but a CNN rep told us last night that although they were pitched on it, they declined. “We are not considering, we passed on it,” a network rep told us.
Other sources say NBC is close to securing the deal, possibly for the “Today” show.”
“I question whether there is enough interest in him,” a competitor mused. “It’s more interesting if he’s found not guilty.”
Murray could face up to four years in prison and lose his medical license if he’s convicted of being criminally negligent in administering the anesthetic propofol before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Tomorrow, both sides are expected to present closing arguments.
A spokesperson for Murray’s lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, declined to comment, citing a gag order on the case. NBC also declined to comment.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 03, 2011, 09:13:14 PM
I guess TS is going to post just after the verdict on the 5th of November. And that's when level 7 begins. :D
That would be great! I was wondering about it being a Saturday. I know that the trial wasn't 'on' on Saturdays (although other trials sometimes are)...but does anyone know if during deliberations, a jury 'works' through the weekend regardless (i.e. can a verdict come at anytime, including the weekend...or if it's not reached by day's end tomorrow, do they go home for the weekend and begin again on Monday?)
Not sure how that works given this trial was only Monday to Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: PureLove on November 03, 2011, 09:15:24 PM
Jacko doc’s shopping story
Last Updated: 12:22 AM, November 2, 2011
Posted: 12:06 AM, November 2, 2011
| More Print
While Dr. Conrad Murray stands trial for the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson, he’s been quietly filming a blockbuster documentary that’s being shopped to major TV networks.
Sources say Murray, who announced yesterday that he will not testify in his defense, has sold the rights “to his story” to a production company that’s been filming interviews with him daily as the trial progresses.
The unidentified production company is shopping the documentary as a package deal that would also include a video diary and a sit-down interview with Murray.
Conrad Murray
UPI
Conrad Murray
“A news division that pays for the documentary will end up with a side deal of getting the sit-down with Conrad,” a source said. “It’s crafted in such a way for a news division that doesn’t pay for interviews.”
We hear the production outfit has been aiming to sell the documentary for $1 million. It is not clear how much would go to Murray.
“They have already filmed a long interview in case he’s taken into custody,” a source told Page Six.
CNN was interested in buying the footage, one source said, but a CNN rep told us last night that although they were pitched on it, they declined. “We are not considering, we passed on it,” a network rep told us.
Other sources say NBC is close to securing the deal, possibly for the “Today” show.”
“I question whether there is enough interest in him,” a competitor mused. “It’s more interesting if he’s found not guilty.”
Murray could face up to four years in prison and lose his medical license if he’s convicted of being criminally negligent in administering the anesthetic propofol before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Tomorrow, both sides are expected to present closing arguments.
A spokesperson for Murray’s lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, declined to comment, citing a gag order on the case. NBC also declined to comment.
We should ask who the director is. lolol/
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 03, 2011, 09:18:47 PM
It's the most freaky but satisfying feeling to think that 99% of the world thinks they are watching 'reality'...when what it really is, is an illusion. Not just the trial...but everything that's occured surrounding MJ's 'death', on June 25th, 2009 and after. Kinda like how 99% of the world thinks the world we see and live in each day is 'reality'...when, in fact, it's all an illusion created by the 'elite', the 1%. Mike has truly flipped the pyramid...and we are now the 1%, with him at the helm...behind the curtain ;)
I really liked this comment of yours. just wanted to say. it is a great way of looking at this. Re: 1% and reference to upsidedown pyramid...
Quote
Wondering if Level 7 will be pre-verdict (which would probably mean a verdict next week so we have a few days to discuss the level :lol:)...or will it be post-verdict (in which case I hope the verdict is read tomorrow lol). Where the heck are ya TS???
pleeeease TS squeeze in a little visit before verdict.... if your too busy, see if front can make some time... lol not much - just a little time for a few comments... pleeeeeeeeeeeeease *bats eyelashes*
Quote
@Australian MJ BeLIEver...great catch with the TMZ/Google screenshot. Nothing like being at the right place and the right time!
funny story. actually i wasnt in the right place at the right time... i was at the supermarket down the street. was waiting in line to be served. got out my andoid phone and googled dr murrays name to see if there were any news updates. the result came up with the documentary comment, and i was like. huh? what is this? i thought it was inferring mj was creating a doco and naturally my hoaxy brain associated this with a possible bam... so i got out of there, raced home in my car like a speed demon and googled CM on my laptop. the same result came up with the page saying article removed. quickly screen shot it and saved it to photo bucket. now when you google it, that search result doesnt come up anymore... so yeah, glad i caught it for us.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 03, 2011, 09:31:22 PM
funny story. actually i wasnt in the right place at the right time... i was at the supermarket down the street. was waiting in line to be served. got out my andoid phone and googled dr murrays name to see if there were any news updates. the result came up with the documentary comment, and i was like. huh? what is this? i thought it was inferring mj was creating a doco and naturally my hoaxy brain associated this with a possible bam... so i got out of there, raced home in my car like a speed demon and googled CM on my laptop. the same result came up with the page saying article removed. quickly screen shot it and saved it to photo bucket. now when you google it, that search result doesnt come up anymore... so yeah, glad i caught it for us.
LOL...great story! We're 'hoax-ified' :lol:...I live, breathe, and eat 'hoax', it's with me wherever I go. It really is an 'alternate reality'...like we're in on a big secret lol. Thanks for sharing ::P
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 03, 2011, 09:34:52 PM
I guess TS is going to post just after the verdict on the 5th of November. And that's when level 7 begins. :D
That would be great! I was wondering about it being a Saturday. I know that the trial wasn't 'on' on Saturdays (although other trials sometimes are)...but does anyone know if during deliberations, a jury 'works' through the weekend regardless (i.e. can a verdict come at anytime, including the weekend...or if it's not reached by day's end tomorrow, do they go home for the weekend and begin again on Monday?)
Not sure how that works given this trial was only Monday to Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Since the jury is not sequestered (for financial reasons I'm sure), they would not deliberate on a weekend; but I highly doubt it would be needed anyway. There will most likely be a verdict tomorrow, 11/4. The jury will probably deliberate 3-4 hours at most (just an estimate and yes I know how much it adds up to :lol:).
Since it's only one count and there are no special circumstances, it's pretty straight forward deliberation.
I would not be surprised if we have a verdict by mid afternoon. :|
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 03, 2011, 09:40:24 PM
I guess TS is going to post just after the verdict on the 5th of November. And that's when level 7 begins. :D
That would be great! I was wondering about it being a Saturday. I know that the trial wasn't 'on' on Saturdays (although other trials sometimes are)...but does anyone know if during deliberations, a jury 'works' through the weekend regardless (i.e. can a verdict come at anytime, including the weekend...or if it's not reached by day's end tomorrow, do they go home for the weekend and begin again on Monday?)
Not sure how that works given this trial was only Monday to Friday.
With L.O.V.E. always.
no
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 03, 2011, 09:41:15 PM
Jacko doc’s shopping story
Last Updated: 12:22 AM, November 2, 2011
Posted: 12:06 AM, November 2, 2011
| More Print
While Dr. Conrad Murray stands trial for the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson, he’s been quietly filming a blockbuster documentary that’s being shopped to major TV networks.
Sources say Murray, who announced yesterday that he will not testify in his defense, has sold the rights “to his story” to a production company that’s been filming interviews with him daily as the trial progresses.
The unidentified production company is shopping the documentary as a package deal that would also include a video diary and a sit-down interview with Murray.
Conrad Murray
UPI
Conrad Murray
“A news division that pays for the documentary will end up with a side deal of getting the sit-down with Conrad,” a source said. “It’s crafted in such a way for a news division that doesn’t pay for interviews.”
We hear the production outfit has been aiming to sell the documentary for $1 million. It is not clear how much would go to Murray.
“They have already filmed a long interview in case he’s taken into custody,” a source told Page Six.
CNN was interested in buying the footage, one source said, but a CNN rep told us last night that although they were pitched on it, they declined. “We are not considering, we passed on it,” a network rep told us.
Other sources say NBC is close to securing the deal, possibly for the “Today” show.”
“I question whether there is enough interest in him,” a competitor mused. “It’s more interesting if he’s found not guilty.”
Murray could face up to four years in prison and lose his medical license if he’s convicted of being criminally negligent in administering the anesthetic propofol before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Tomorrow, both sides are expected to present closing arguments.
A spokesperson for Murray’s lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, declined to comment, citing a gag order on the case. NBC also declined to comment.
Of course they have.....and of course it is! ;)
Post by: BeTheChange on November 03, 2011, 09:44:50 PM
Still 'ties in' with November 5th...verdict on the 4th + 1 day of 'simmering' :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: November on November 03, 2011, 10:04:43 PM
IMO, the proceeds from this documentary should be given to the kids.
Post by: bec on November 03, 2011, 10:17:14 PM
Ps. TS, thank you.
Post by: wishingstar on November 03, 2011, 10:22:00 PM
funny story. actually i wasnt in the right place at the right time... i was at the supermarket down the street. was waiting in line to be served. got out my andoid phone and googled dr murrays name to see if there were any news updates. the result came up with the documentary comment, and i was like. huh? what is this? i thought it was inferring mj was creating a doco and naturally my hoaxy brain associated this with a possible bam... so i got out of there, raced home in my car like a speed demon and googled CM on my laptop. the same result came up with the page saying article removed. quickly screen shot it and saved it to photo bucket. now when you google it, that search result doesnt come up anymore... so yeah, glad i caught it for us.
LOL...great story! We're 'hoax-ified' :lol:...I live, breathe, and eat 'hoax', it's with me wherever I go. It really is an 'alternate reality'...like we're in on a big secret lol. Thanks for sharing ::P
With L.O.V.E. always.
You guys are so funny.....yes BTC...totally hoax-ified!!!! Just tonight I was in the grocery store...there is a brand new product in the dairy section called : Christmas Milk. Its label features the letters CM boldly on the front of the bottle. It's a type of egg nog I think.....a special Christmas drink it said. So yes...totally hoax-ified!
Blessings
Post by: BeTheChange on November 03, 2011, 10:36:32 PM
@Bec...was that a general 'thank you' to TS...as in, for him being here with us from the beginning and guiding us along the way? Or was it a specific 'thank you' for something that 99% of us don't know about??????????? :evil: :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 03, 2011, 11:07:07 PM
Post by: bec on November 03, 2011, 11:10:49 PM
Post by: wishingstar on November 03, 2011, 11:24:59 PM
You might be Hoax-ified if:
-you see faces in slices of BAM cake
-you add gematria letter numbering in your sleep......and it means something, lol
-when an ambulance or fire truck passes by, you can't help but get the urge to pull out your camera and try to take a picture through a dark window.
-you wake up adding numbers of dates
-your morning coffee goes cold because you keep reading the threads
-your evening coffee goes cold because you keep reading the threads
-every time you see Jane Valez you think, "....OMG, that's Michael!"
and the classic...You might be totally hoax-ified if:
-you can relate eggnog to Michael Jackson's Death Trial (cue hoax music, lol)
*If you can't laugh, you will never know tears of joy, only those of sorrow.
~ Wishingstar
Post by: Andrea on November 03, 2011, 11:27:31 PM
Post by: bec on November 03, 2011, 11:39:18 PM
-when an ambulance or fire truck passes by, you can't help but get the urge to pull out your camera and try to take a picture through a dark window.
Guilty as charged. To this day it's reflexive and every single time I catch myself and say, no no, its irrelevant...
Post by: BeTheChange on November 03, 2011, 11:53:14 PM
@Bec...nice. Could you possibly give TS a message and let him know that the rest of us would love to thank him for something specific as well?
/overreacting/
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 04, 2011, 12:00:13 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUaMzwNPgro&feature=related[/youtube]
Perfection.
Thanks for adding this to the thread Im_convinced, good timing ::P.
I'll be there....looking like I haven't slept in a few years, but I'll be there.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on November 04, 2011, 12:03:12 AM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 04, 2011, 12:06:54 AM
@ Sarahli exactly. The key phrases were placed in both arguments that have been used throughout this hoax. I noticed specifically certain things that have been discussed in this thread within the past couple of days were mentioned; such as everything being based on speculation as to what transpired June 25. <--I said the exact same thing the other day. Walgren also said the same thing TS did in reponse to Anna; that "we might not know everything now, and perhaps we never will."
Gotham Chopra tweeted something similar about "the man behind the curtain" early on in the hoax and I think Ortega did too not sure.
I think Michael wanted it this way so not everything was obvious to the unsuspecting eye, but by adding key phrases in the "script" it's there to pick up on. If everything was in our face there would be no point for him to have hoaxed his death at all.
Post by: wishingstar on November 04, 2011, 12:16:54 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUaMzwNPgro&feature=related[/youtube]
Perfection.
Thanks for adding this to the thread Im_convinced, good timing ::P.
I'll be there....looking like I haven't slept in a few years, but I'll be there.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I second, third and fourth that....can you fourth something legally....maybe we should ask Ed....Hey that could be a whole new career for Ed: Ask Ed
Did you mention sleep BTC.....what's that, lol! You are so funny!
This song means a great deal to me....that you so much for posting it!!!
Blessings Always
PS> I am glad you guys seemed to have enjoyed my little Hoax-ified rant earlier...thank you for the sweet responses ;)
Post by: wishingstar on November 04, 2011, 12:35:20 AM
I know what you are thinking...hoax-ified....but really, look back at it...it even has a curl.
So...not a real kangaroo...not a real kangaroo court.........soooooooo, yep add it to the list of WTFoosballs........
Blessings
Post by: WhiteNight on November 04, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Anyway lol
As I have been keeping up with the trial, I’m just so tickled at the ‘terms’ that have been chosen by both the prosecution and the defense. I’m sorry if this was mentioned before. (I just noticed your post bec lol)I have not read the previous posts before this page but did anyone catch the ‘Man behind the curtain’ comment by the defense attorney during closing arguments? I LOLed at that one. He also said ‘reality TV’ among other things.
As for the verdict, I also think that it’s possible that it may be reached on the 4th of this month. This should be interesting. I mean even if it is not reached until Monday, that would still be ‘hoxarific’ as it would end up falling on the 7th.
Be the change: I totally agree with you on that one. > “I'll be there....looking like I haven't slept in a few years, but I'll be there.” LOL
This has been (and still is) one hell of an adventure I must say. It really does seem like we are in on a big secret. It’s so exciting! This has really changed my life. It’s hard to explain but I’m sure that all of you understand. I mean that’s why we are here after all isn’t it?
I send love to you all,
~alma~
Post by: RK on November 04, 2011, 01:26:04 AM
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Post by: MJonmind on November 04, 2011, 02:32:10 AM
Wishingstar and Andrea :lol: So true!
All I know is that for the first time in my life I know all about addiction (related to the cold coffee)!
Good reminder Im_convincedMJalive! I will be there too. The lyrics AGAIN amazingly describe this stage of his life/"death" and his relationship with all who love him. But then again ALL his music and lyrics are timeless!
Quote
"Will You Be There"
Hold MeLike The River Jordan
And I Will Then Say To Thee
You Are My Friend
Carry Me
Like You Are My Brother
Love Me Like A Mother
Will You Be There?
Weary
Tell Me Will You Hold Me
When Wrong, Will You Scold Me
When Lost Will You Find Me?
But They Told Me
A Man Should Be Faithful
And Walk When Not Able
And Fight Till The End
But I'm Only Human
Everyone's Taking Control Of Me
Seems That The World's
Got A Role For Me
I'm So Confused
Will You Show To Me
You'll Be There For Me
And Care Enough To Bear Me
(Hold Me)
(Lay Your Head Lowly)
(Softly Then Boldly)
(Carry Me There)
(Lead Me)
(Love Me And Feed Me)
(Kiss Me And Free Me)
(I Will Feel Blessed)
(Carry)
(Carry Me Boldly)
(Lift Me Up Slowly)
(Carry Me There)
(Save Me)
(Heal Me And Bathe Me)
(Softly You Say To Me)
(I Will Be There)
(Lift Me)
(Lift Me Up Slowly)
(Carry Me Boldly)
(Show Me You Care)
(Hold Me)
(Lay Your Head Lowly)
(Softly Then Boldly)
(Carry Me There)
(Need Me)
(Love Me And Feed Me)
(Kiss Me And Free Me)
(I Will Feel Blessed)
[Spoken]
In Our Darkest Hour
In My Deepest Despair
Will You Still Care?
Will You Be There?
In My Trials
And My Tribulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain
Through My Joy And My Sorrow
In The Promise Of Another Tomorrow
I'll Never Let You Part
For You're Always In My Heart.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 04, 2011, 02:37:05 AM
I am seeing "signs" everywhere now and it is really "freaky", but at the same time it is absolutely amazing!! Never in a million years would I have believed that anything like this was even "possible", But it was Michael who taught me to "open" my mind to all possibilities and when I did...well you guys understand. There is some "Mind" blowing stuff going on right now...Pun intended! lol
We really do create our own reality...we are "spiritual beings" living a "Human experience", and the world is changing before our eyes because of people, like us who truly "Believe".
We will be here Michael...Always and Forever! We are ONE...We are LOVE!
Sending you all LOVE...Please know how much I appreciate all of you and what you do! Remember that we are not alone!!!!!! THIS IS IT!
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 04, 2011, 03:57:42 AM
Post by: curls on November 04, 2011, 04:16:11 AM
Michael, I don't know where you're taking us next (post-verdict is all a total unknown to me, whatever the jury decides), but I'll be there - how could I not be?
Post by: fordtocarr on November 04, 2011, 09:13:06 AM
@
@fordtocarr There will be NO deliberation during the weekend.
21 hours ago
SO...the news is all speculating if the jurors will hurry for a verdict so they have their weekend free to not return.
Post by: Mish1981 on November 04, 2011, 09:17:37 AM
You are all amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am seeing "signs" everywhere now and it is really "freaky", but at the same time it is absolutely amazing!! Never in a million years would I have believed that anything like this was even "possible", But it was Michael who taught me to "open" my mind to all possibilities and when I did...well you guys understand. There is some "Mind" blowing stuff going on right now...Pun intended! lol
We really do create our own reality...we are "spiritual beings" living a "Human experience", and the world is changing before our eyes because of people, like us who truly "Believe".
We will be here Michael...Always and Forever! We are ONE...We are LOVE!
Sending you all LOVE...Please know how much I appreciate all of you and what you do! Remember that we are not alone!!!!!! THIS IS IT!
You took the words right out of my mouth and I couldn't have said it better myself. I completely agree with every word!
Post by: wishingstar on November 04, 2011, 10:09:06 AM
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
OMGosh RK......yes, I read the label about the children's fund...I actually had it mind to look it up today...wow is all I can say. Thank you so much for taking the time to post that information...I don't even know where to go with this, lol. It was so odd to be standing in the dairy section, thinking hoaxie thoughts.....surely not connected :shock:
:lol: I wouldn't' be at all surprised though. Michael did say at one point he had cows at Neverland....that ranchers lease out the land, right? Perhaps those were dairy cows used for this...... you neverland know about things! Thanks again for the information...you're great!
@mjj4ever777 & Mish1981....you're the amazing ones......we are ONE....FAMILY comes first....thank you for your sweet words.......I personally appreciate you guys beyond all words, as I do all here. You are ALL great..........I LOVE YOU!!!!
Have a very beautiful day...no matter what happens with the jury.....we will be here always with love in our hearts.
LOVE
Post by: paula-c on November 04, 2011, 10:28:17 AM
Closing Arguments
Judge Pastor is reading a lengthy instruction to the Jury before closing arguments begin. First notice was that he said “Michael Joseph Jackson” during his instructions to the jury. So this is how we started off the day.
The Prosecution
- Walgren is using the projector with power points to support his closing arguments. His point that he is trying to make is that Murray acted not with intent to kill Michael, but with criminal negligence that caused the death, or act of failure to perform a legal duty causes death.
- Walgren says that it only needs to be proved that Murray acted in a remote matter for him to be considered guilty of manslaughter. (This is later refuted by Chernoff below, stating there has to be direct cause for conviction).
- Walgren states that the defendant must have foreseen the consequence of the factor that caused Michael’s death and could only be considered innocent if the circumstances were unforeseeable and extraordinary. (Agree, this is part of the Judge’s instruction).
-Walgren says Murray was conscious of guilt because he failed to share information with paramedics and doctors at the ER of the administered Propofol. (Murray did admit to this, saying forgot to mention it but did tell about the other meds).
- Neither of the other parties signed Conrad Murray’s employment contract (AEG, Michael Jackson), was of the understanding he would be getting 100K a month, wrote to his patients/clinics that he was leaving medicine. (This is true via Murray’s signature on contract.)
- Walgren remarks about the two months of orders of Propofol and Lorazapam to the apartment (not clinic) of Nicole Alvarez. (not sent to a clinic – I agree)
- Walgren addresses May 10th recording of Michael slurring speech (why would Murray make such a recording? This is on a Sunday.) Walgren addresses that Murray made this recording on his Iphone and keeps it for some unknown reason. (Not sure why Walgren added that.)
- Walgren starts repeating parts of the recording, states “My show”, “It’s amazing”, “I’ve never seen anything like this” . . . “build the greatest children’s hospital in the world”. Walgren frames it in “he says this in a vulnerable state. Murray sits by his side and records this on his I-phone”. (The repeating of Michael’s statements on that tape center around “My show” and “I’ve never seen anything like this” sound more like a veiled message then a fact necessary to convict Murray. Then Walgren adds that Murray taped this “while Murray sits by his side…” which actually presents a carrying Murray. Odd and unnecessary information to include as a point to try and get a conviction).
- Walgren says two days later he orders another shipment of Propofol and Midazolam. (Now we’re back to normal argument!)
- Walgren touches on Ortega’s testimony about Michael being excited about the Illusion, and talking to Kenny Ortega about “the illusion the next day”. Walgren repeated the word “Illusion” three times. (Again, this has nothing to do with proof of guilt – another veiled message?)
- Walgren seems to be giving clues by putting both Ortega’s and Phillip’s statements up there, accentuating the Illusion and Michael’s statements “You got me this far, I can take it from here”. (Why such emphasis on these statements? None of this has to do with Murray. Walgren did also mention Murray stating to Ortega that he is the director and He was the doctor and should leave Michael’s health to him. I also thought it was odd that Ortega used the term “he left the building” . . . Elvis left the building?).
- At 4:30 Walgren says that Murray says Michael is complaining about not sleeping. (a screenshot of the powerpoint below on Murray’s timeline given to police).
- Brazil looks back toward where the Jackson’s may be and smiles and looks away
- Walgren makes a point about intent on Murray’s statement that Murray decided to give him the Propofol when Michael stated they would have to cancel the rehearsal so he could sleep past noon. Walgren’s argument was that Murray’s INTENT was that he intended for Michael to sleep longer once Michael said he would have to cancel the rehearsals and could sleep past noon. (I did not agree this was proof, this is speculating).
-Walgren plays the recording again of Murray telling detectives that he only left Michael to go to the bathroom. (Murray – too much information about what HE had to do in the bathroom using the words “to relieve myself . . . of urine” (What else would he possibly relieve himself of? Geesh!)
- Murray said Michael had a heart beat but was not breathing when he came back. Murray did not call 911 immediately. Calls Amir Williams at 12:12 pm. Admits he didn’t tell Amir to call 911 when he left a voicemail. Said he would want to know what it was about (Walgren makes a good point he was leaving voicemail and could have used that time to call 911).
- @9:23am Murray is talking to a Chanel Murray. (???) screen shots of emails on his phone in exhibit, etc…
- This is all going on during the time Murray says Michael is complaining about not being able to sleep. (Chernoff addresses this in his argument).
Walgren states Murray was doing what he was told, as an employee, not as a doctor to a patient but as an employee to an employer. (I thought this was a good comparison to make, I agree Murray should have said no, but I don’t believe Michael is an addict either.)
- Walgren talks about Anding’s testimony that 5 minutes into phone call she is getting no response from Murray, hears coughing and muffled voices. (time of call proves proof of sign of trouble and when).
-Walgren recounts that Williams states Murray tells Alvarez to grab saline bag (the one with the bottle in it) but never grabs the other one. (No prints from Alvarez on this bag, Chernoff addresses below).
- Mentions Fleak’s picture of the bottle outside the bag, saying she took it out for the purposes of photography. (Nice try but that was incredibly sloppy).
- Walgren states that Murray didn’t call 911 until after, Alvarez says, Murray has Alvarez put medicine bottles and the saline bag and bottle in the medical bag.
- Walgren says “what would possess a medical doctor, not to call 911 other than to put Dr. Murray first and Michael Jackson and his life, last? (Chernoff addresses this below. He is also rubbing his forehead a lot. I think he needs a facial message to get rid of that headache, poor guy).
- Senneff takes Michael to the ambulance then returns upstairs to retrieve his equipment. (??? Ambulance, sense of urgency? There are four other people coming out of that house and none of them can get the equipment? It’s not exactly a two-second dash into that huge house, up the stairs, across the landing, through the foyer and into the bedroom area to collect the equipment and then back down through all that!)
- ER doctors said Murray told them he only gave Michael Lorazapam and Midazolam and “overlooked” the Propofol. (I don’t trust at least two of those doctors, but this isn’t a cause of death since Cooper stated he was already clinically dead when he got there).
- Alvarez and Muhammed state Murray wanted to go back to house to recover “cream” Michael didn’t want to the world to know about. (This is what THEY said and Chernoff offers another explanation below.)
- Walgren says Murray was concerned about finger prints and medical bags with equipment. (Chernoff addresses below).
- States Murray told police about the bags up in the cabinet, but Walgren suggests Murray only told them because he assumed that police had already been there (assumes? This is not proof and it is not cause) t o get “ahead of the story” (As I jury I would have to disregard this as evidence because it is complete fabrication).
- Steinberg, Kamangar, Shafer experts for the prosecution said they would never have done what Murray did. (White also said this, it shouldn’t have been done.)
- Walgren states because Propofol should be used in this setting (shows hospital emergency room) not in this setting (shows pic of Michael’s bedroom). (agreed or at least a clinic with another medical professional present and monitoring equipment.)
- Walgren states setting is the direct cause of Michael’s death. Criminal gross negligence. (That is not the direct cause but a contributing cause.)
- Study on Propofol for sleep post-dated Michael’s death and experts stated it was just an experiment, not standard of care. (this is false information. There have been other studies, but the only evidence that was submitted – Sleep specialist testified it is given in intensive care for patient comfort and mild to moderate sedation for people on ventilators – was given to Michael by other doctors to Michael for sleep, but this was not submitted into evidence except by witness statements).
- Walgren goes through standards of care breeched, including lack of monitoring equipment and abandonment of patient.
- Walgren makes a good point bringing up Dr. White’s mention of variables, which is why you take the precautions because every patient reacts differently. Adds the lack of medical records (What did Fleak collect from him then?)
- Propofol bottle found in saline bag (allegedly) that the hanging tab was not used, has the spike hole and Murray’s fingerprints (but there is no propfol residue inside bag, no spike in bag, spike would not fit through both and the second infusion tubing is missing).
- Walgren talks about Witnesses testifying to Murray treating them but points out that Murray was treating them in a hospital or clinic for what Murray was trained in, hearts. (I agree with this, good point by Walgren, however Murray IS CERTIFIED in moderate anesthesia for PROCEDURES.)
- Walgren says that Metzger testified no amount of money would convince him to give Michael Propofol. Walgren said no doctor had until Murray . . . Immediately after that he played a portion of Cherilyn Lee’s testimony that Michael told her that doctors had given it to him, and told him it was safe (Walgren contradicts his own witness. And I have my suspicions on Metzger thanks to Jermaine’s page 324).
- Lorazapam is a controlled substance, should have been secured, locked up. (I agree with this, but Michael had his own prescriptions in another bedroom. Murray can’t control what Michael does with his own medications or where he keeps them).
- Walgren has the nerve to mention White’s “financial” motivation when he himself tried to lure White away from the defense before White had committed to the defense. Calls White’s testimony “junk science” and “garbage”.
(This is where he loses me because Walgren himself shows vindictive motive because White wouldn’t testify for Walgren who ORIGINALLY SOUGHT HIS EXPERTISE and was told no. He’s attacking Dr. White in his closing argument– Who’s on trial? Suddenly his closing argument is about Dr. White and not the man on trial, Murray. He then turns around and agrees with Dr. White’s statement that he would never administer Propofol in a bedroom and would never consider it. Walgren, in showing the clips of White’s testimony that HE wanted the jury to hear, effectively shortened White’s answers (and for that I thank him).
- Walgren continues on a “White-Rant”, Still attacking White on the Ornelas models on the urine concentrations. White points out that White was staying at Flanagan’s house while there to testify. (And if he accepted Walgren’s offer probably would have stayed at Walgren’s house? Maybe he should have stayed at Dr. Shafer’s since they USED to be friends).
- Still attacking White on the articles and Models that he did not put together. (Defense should have brought in Ornelas – defense through him under the bus on this one. Chernoff addresses this below).
- Walgren points out White hedging on the question if an infusion line could be put in someone’s pocket, then shows a clip of White pulling an infusion line out of his pocket for Flanagan to use. (However THAT infusion line didn’t have liquid in it and was in a wrapper. Did Murray have wet pants? Maybe he should have stayed in the bathroom longer? Sorry, sarcasm).
- Walgren makes a good point in the Simon’s article. Walgren states that the article Shafer came back to testify to was written in 2002 and was not critical of Simon study but rather confirmed that Simon’s 1988 study lacked the sophisticated equipment to measure that they have today. (Good point, I agree with this).
- Closing – Michael Jackson trusted Conrad Murray with his life . . . Michael Jackson paid with his life. States Murray didn’t want to lose this job and did what he was asked, but that’s not what he should have done as a doctor. (not comfortable with this . . . We don’t know Michael asked for this. We only know what witnesses said and there were only two that testified to Michael asking for this . . . Murray and Lee).
Closing argument from Walgren I thought was good, persuasive even though I don’t’ agree with all the points, the ones in regard to care of Michael and abandonment are hard to explain of a doctor.
Lunch break
Chernoff Closing Arguments
- Chernoff begins by attacking Walgren’s taking of quotes out of context and Walgren’s statement that you don’t have to show exact causal to prove guilt and Chernoff says “the disturbing thing is that is EXACTLY what he has to do. (I agree with this. Walgren should not be confusing the Jury on the judge’s instructions and the law.)
- Said Walgren spent an hour and a half talking about negligence. Says the prosecution had to show Murray killed Michael and the only thing that came close was reference to the baggy pants. (I hope he’s going to use better examples than that. There were much better points to make.)
- Undisputable facts – character and nature of Propofol facts first.
Timeline – implied what was going on during phone calls when no proof there was anything going on. Michael was found in distress at around noon after phone calls were already made and he dropped that phone call to Anding when it happened. (I agree only because there is no proof that Murray was out of the room when he made the phone calls.)
-Sade Anding’s phone call was 11:51 and she said she listened for about 10 mintues, that’s how they can determine this happened at noon. (Agreed. Anding testified to hearing coughing and noises and no one else was in the room according to Murray, besides he and Michael at that time).
- Never found Michael Jackson not breathing for those 42 minutes prior that Murray was on the phone. (Not sure I agree with this other than the statement above. In Murray’s police STATEMENT he says he “came back in” and Michael was not breathing, unless he called Anding on his way back in from the bathroom.)
- Experts say Propofol is a ten minute drug by injection. To keep Propofol actually working is through a drip. Only can be administered through IV injection or drip, not orally according to both doctors, it is not viable any other way. (I agree with this.) If injected prior to 11:18, around 11:05 am then by the time Murray left the room at 11:18, he was off the phone when he gave the injections (except calling Anding.) No matter what Murray was doing, there was no chance of harm based on what he knew he gave Michael. Prosecution spent 6 weeks trying to prove a drip, because without a drip, what Murray gave him would not have killed him. (this is all from Chernoff).
- Chernoff said Walgren didn’t talk about the testimony of Shafer, Fleak or Alvarez because they were trying to create a drip that never existed. It’s is the only thing that would have/could have killed him. (The bolus death was disproved on models because the amount needed to kill him would have had to have been injected rapid bolus, repeatedly and even a skilled anesthesiologist would have a hard time keeping up because of the way you have to extract the Propofol from the bottle/suction.)
- Chernoff says prosecution doesn’t want to tell you that they want to convict Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson. (Whoa. Now I’m livid!)
- Chernoff said, Alvarez testimony talked about how hard it was for him then you learn that Alvarez has been offered 550k for a story. He compares Alvarez telling police in June that all he did is call 911. Yet in August he testified to hiding evidence for Murray, comforted Michael’s children, tried to breathe life into Michael. Claims Alvarez is going to cash in . . . Alvarez waits two months to tell police about the bottle in the saline bag, and said it was due to scheduling, but he was unemployed and couldn’t get work because of his involvement with the Jackson case. (Alvarez testifies to working for Jacksons for two months before getting let go, which could account for the scheduling problem).
- Walgren addresses 911 recording that shows what Alvarez testified to helping Murray get Michael to the floor was impossible. Alvarez testified to grabbing the bag but his fingerprints were not on the bag. The fingerprints were identifiable and they were not Alvarez’s. No milky substance in bag, bag tested negative for any drug. Michael Amir’s phone records reflect that Alvarez did not call Amir as no calls showed up on Amir’s phone. (Good points here in Alvarez, all this is undebatably true.)
Chernoff reminded Jurors that he asked Alverez if he could do all that in 30 seconds. Alvarez’s response was ‘I’m efficient’. Says prosecution doesn’t care because the bottle in the bag is the genesis of their infusion theory. (very good point).
- No notes from Fleak on the bottle in the bag – she just remembers it 18 months later. It did not appear on her reports. (This was one of the fishiest parts of the coroner’s investigation).
- Detective Smith said he did not see a bottle in the bag) and referred to his notes. He even put in his notes that he found a Lorazam bottle in a bag that holds an IV bag, he was that thorough but never saw a Propofol bottle in the slit IV bag.
- April 2011, They bring Alvarez in about a conversation about his testimony and changes his drawing about what he saw. (Alvarez completely unbelievable at this point and Walgren makes a good point about him being coached).
- Chernoff is stopping just BARELY short of accusing the prosecution of coaching the witness about the vial in the bag at that April 2011 meeting with Alvarez.
- Cheroff shows that even if they go with the theory of the drip, picture of the bottle shows that Murray didn’t need the bottle in the bag, it had a hanging tab on it. (This is also a complete slip up from the prosecution. The fact that the tab is still intact, never used and Murray would go through the trouble of slitting a bag instead of simply hanging it using the tab makes the prosecution’s theory make no sense at all.)
(Murray looks like he’s wearing makeup)
- Chernoff on the two IV line theory – “why the prosecution did that was because the problem was there was no way to show it was one tube because the tubing they had in evidence had no Propofol in it, it was clear.” Both lines were vented, just one had the flap broken off. The one IV line was too long and there was no Propofol in it so they had to come up with a second IV line theory. (Chernoff is good at pointing this out. He’s good at pointing out inconsistencies. Walgren is good at repeating accusations until they become “truth” in the juror’s minds. Both skilled with different tactics; Chernoff is attacking the inconsistencies, Walgren attacks the character of the witness/defendants).
- Chernoff said prosecution didn’t hire Shafer until two years after the crime. He is a computer modeler and anesthesiologist, not a detective, and said “this is what happened” not that they were possibilities. (I agree with this to a point. Shafer had some good points, but Chernoff is right about his mixing of apples and oranges to try to make something stick).
- Chernoff said he wants to defend White. “Scientists tell you what is possible but they don’t take positions – good scientist don’t do that, Schafer wasn’t being a scientist, Schafer was playing the advocate.” White didn’t do that, he stated he would never have done what Murray did and was honest, Chernoff said. (Both opposing attorneys vying for the integrity of their perspective experts. I can identify with Chernoff on this because White is retired and he was completely beat up on the stand, mostly with information that was really irrelevant to what they were trying to prove. I don’t like bullies and when I see someone getting bullied I have a tendency to call foul and I will stand up for them. That is my crucible – well, one of many crucibles)
- None of Shafer’s models had anything to do with the facts in the case – they were all simulations and opinions. No evidence of six injections, multiple milligrams of Propofol dripped or rapid bolus but no evidence in the trial. Nobody ever said happened. ( I disagree with this – ALL MODELS were simulations based on opinions, on both sides.)
- Shafer on cross-examination testified that it was impossible to determine dose from concentration because there are infinite possibilities. (I remember this. But White’s mistake was trying to do that with the urine levels asking another doctor to work it up on a program he was not familiar with.)
- Shows Shafer’s model of 10 Lorazapam shots, reason he came up with this simulation because there was an empty Lorazapam bottle at the scene. 10 shots every 30 minutes. This is the same chart that is absent the line for responsive to painful stimuli. Shafer showed shots beginning when Michael was still at staples center, so the next Day Shafer brings in a new model showing 9 shots. (that was a slimy stunt. I have to agree with Chernoff on that. It wasn’t even based on fact so why did Shafer go through the trouble?)
- Chernoff reminded jurors that free Lorazapam was in the stomach which means Michael swallowed Lorazapam. Said prosecution didn’t want them to know that even though prosecution said it’s only a 32nd of a pill or 138th of a pill. Chernoff said, but tablets dissolve and the medicine in them goes into the body. After all that, Shafer did not show one oral Lorazapam simulation. He said White did, and Shafer did not say anything about that on rebuttal.
- Chernoff said it again . . . don’t be afraid to say it . . . “prosecution wants you to convict Dr. Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson. If it was anyone else besides Michael Jackson, Murray wouldn’t be sitting there.” (This is almost word for word what Mesereau said to Jurors in the Michael Jackson trial in 2005, only Michael was the defendant on trial, sitting there through shoddy, falsified and corrupted evidence. In 2005 Michael was on trial because he was Michael Jackson. In 2011 Murray was on trial because the patient that died on his watch is Michael Jackson.)
- Chernoff makes a point on Murray’s patients, they’ve been patients for ten years but was last treated in 2003 or 2001 for a procedure.
- Chernoff said the prosecution’s position is “Don’t pay attention to the man behind the curtain”, that the doctors got up and looked down on Murray and said “I woudn’t have done that” and judge him without living in his shoes, but Kamangar, Shafer and Steinberg have never been in the shoes of Conrad Murray (this sounds just like Michael and what Michael would say. I also could not believe Chernoff said “the man behind the curtain” and it really did not even fit into his statement with the rest of the sentence. I marked it down as a veiled message – Curtain Call for Norma Jean).
- Murray’s greatest character flaw is his greatest strength. He came into a situation believing he could help Michael, but he was wrong. There was “too much going on in the background” and he was “a little fish in a big dirty pond”. (Michael is Murray, Murray is Michael??? Michael’s greatest character flaw is his greatest strength, according to Jermaine in his book. OMGosh! Parallels make it easier to look out the windows when traveling by train! That just made no doggone sense, did it?)
- Chernoff - good point . . . “You’re a cardiologist trained in advanced life support, you come in and find our patient not breathing, eyes open and the first thing you do is call 911? Instead of reviving your patient?” Even the other Dr.’s said they would take two to three minutes to revive.
- Chernoff says Murray tries to revive. After 2 or three minutes administers Flumazenil the antidote for Lorazapam. He runs downstairs and gets Kai chase, who knew something was wrong, because she tells prince that “something’s wrong with your father” and sends him upstairs, does NOT get security. (That was cold. I don’t ever want that woman near Michael again. How could she?)
- Kai only had to go out the kitchen door about 30 feet to the security trailer and she didn’t do it. (didn’t catch screen of picture because MOM CALLED!!!)
- Chernoff shows picture of the ambu-bag on the floor . .. asks “if he didn’t use it, why is it out?” No evidence he did not use it. Said during his statement to police that there was sufficient ventilation.
- Chernoff says all prosecution witnesses on board with Murray doing everything wrong. (wait until you hear what’s coming . . . )
- Chernoff admonishes the prosecution identifying Michael’s children showing their pictures. Says they didn’t have to bring in Nicole Alvarez in, to show what? That she received packages of medication? We had fed ex and Applied pharmacy receipts for that. (I agree that this seemed to be a backdoor way to show Murray’s “personal life” which was supposed to be off limits, but this witness was allowed and Walgren was “allowed” to ask Murray’s patient Ruby Mosley about meeting Murray’s “female friends”. She told him though, LOL! I love her!)
- Chernoff states that prosecution tried to show Murray ran from the hospital when what he did was take the direct route to the west wing for the press conference, video shows him there at 5:02. Murray was the only one there without transportation because he rode in the ambulance. Amir said to lock down the house he was so worried and had Faheem lie to Murray, but never said that to police. Chernoff says again, “everybody’s on the team” “everyone is willing to go for it” (Murray’s throat? Playing into conspiracy?)
- Cheroff plays voicemail . . . Frank Dileo. Frank says he’s “I’m Michael’s manager, the short guy with no hair . . . I think you know we had an episode last night, he’s sick and we need to get a blood test on him, we need to figure out what he’s doing.” (Neither Kenny Ortega nor Frank Dileo in the email or voice mail refer directly to Michael as the man who is sick. Ortega refers to “the artist” in his email forward, and Frank identifies himself as Michael’s manager, but doesn’t name him as the one who’s sick, “HE’S sick” and “test on HIM” and “figure out what HE’S doing.”)
- Chernoff said, It’s not really what he’s doing, it’s what’s being done to him. (Cryptic statement – and LOADED).
- Says Jackson under enormous pressure from AEG and appearances, not JUST related to visits to Klein’s. (Here we bring in reference and can match it up to Gongaware’s “believed Michael’s problems originated from something OTHER than medications” This is the tip of the iceberg).
- Chernoff said he did not give Michael a controlled substance, he gave him a medication for a specific medical condition. Describes the prosecution describing Michael was like “a baby on a counter” and said that was the most insulting thing he could say about Michael Jackson. (and saying Michael’s actions are what killed him isn’t insulting??? He’s not stupid and he’s NOT AN ADDICT!!!) Michael Jackson is a grown man responsible for his children. He’s not incapable and he’s not a baby. Chernoff states that if you are going to hold Murray responsible, don’t do it just because it is Michael Jackson. (Cheap shot, but I also saw the parallel in this to Michael in 2005 – Mesereau – If you’re going to convict, don’t do it just because he’s Michael Jackson.” I’m not sure those are the exact words Mesereau used, but we all know why Michael was really on trial. At the beginning of this trial, Chernoff told Jurors that we are going to find out who Murray REALLY is . . . so? Who is he?)
Mid afternoon Break.
Rebuttal Argument by Walgren
- Walgren gets his last licks in and starts with failures to act and actions of Conrad Murray.
- Walgren drives into jury unconscionable, grossly criminal negligent behavior. (I’m sure he wanted to add more adjectives but the stenographer was complaining . . . just kidding).
- Walgren says “Poor Conrad Murray – everyone is to blame but Conrad Murray.” I can’t believe it! Walgren actually used the word “conspiracy” three times! (Michae’s words . . . THANK YOU Walgren).
- Walgren uses the words “bizarre” for Conrad Murray’s conduct. (???)
“Everything he did was bizarre”. (Michael Jackson’s cross he has now?)
- Walgren says, “It’s Michael Jackson’s fault” “It’s everyone elses fault” (This is exactly what music industry and media pundits said about Michael in regard to his album sales for Invincible – I can pull these up!) Bizarre is used going on six times now. “Conspiracy” is used three or four times by Walgren.
- Walgren goes back to Alvarez and Fleak “just told you what they saw, this isn’t some conspiracy” (but Fleak didn’t write it down in her report” (He said this isn’t some “conspiracy” again).
- Walgren fumbled on his explanation of Shafer testifying that Michael could have reached up and loosened the roller clamp to resume Propofol drip, but followed up with “it is still the position of the prosecution that Murray committed criminal negligence, indifference.” (how so if Michael did loosen roller clamps? I don’t agree Michael did that, but we can’t have it both ways.)
- Walgren is saying Murray lied about suggesting the autopsy, lied about getting a welfare team together for the kids, that it was typical UCLA protocol.
- Walgren said “we cannot prove what happened behind those doors” . . . (if that is the case, you cannot convict – beyond the shadow of a doubt). “If Murray cared so much for his welfare, actions speak far louder than words.”
Judge reads post trial deliberation instructions
Jury will deliberate tomorrow and we may actually have a verdict unless they are at it into next week.
I see some incredible parallel’s here to what Michael went through and what happened to him in 2005. I also see a lot of veiled messages that are stuck in sentences that really do not fit into the arguments.
What I see, if I am right is this trial is a door to the next level. I’m not sure if there is anything between here and September 2012 and the civil suit with AEG, but it will be interesting to see if there is an appeal of THIS case.
http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 04, 2011, 11:29:35 AM
This is the vision of a person who does not believe that Michael is alive,...
- Thanks for sharing this ! Nice summary. Good observations.
I still feel for Chernoff :lol: Defence was left with nothing in a way. He did what he could I think.
Post by: fatalkiss26 on November 04, 2011, 11:41:19 AM
She said in some parts of the police interview , Murray sounds like Michael..I kinda thought that also. the way some words were pronunciated.
Also, so much background noise...even for a hotel, there wouldnt be a "party" in the background...
Post by: MissG on November 04, 2011, 01:35:08 PM
-"bizarre, unethical, unconscionable behavior" .."That is why we are here."-
Ringing 2005 bells anyone?
I don´t know what will happen, but as the defense said (not 100% same words but same meaning) -"If would not have been MJ, would be Murray be sitted here today"-
Post by: fordtocarr on November 04, 2011, 01:49:16 PM
by VinniePolitan
@hlntv #MurrayTrial @issueswithjvm @vinniepolitan JUSTICE HAS TO BE SERVED ON MURRAY AND THEN WE MUST GO AFTER THE OTHER CONSPIRES!
Why don't she TELL what those other ones ARE???
Post by: paula-c on November 04, 2011, 01:56:15 PM
Dr. George Nichopoulos was charged by Memphis authorities with overprescribing drugs to Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis and nine others. While Dr. Nick, as he was known, was not charged with killing Elvis, ABC News reported that it was those prescription drugs that caused the singer’s death in 1977.
Neal’s own investigation found that Presley was getting illegal prescription drugs from several others when he couldn’t get them from Dr. Nick. He also learned that the doctor was switching many of Presley’s prescription meds with placebos in an effort to wean him from the addictive drugs.
“I discovered that if it were not for Dr. Nichopoulos, Elvis would have been dead years earlier,” says Neal. “The evidence showed that [Dr. Nick] was actually slowly reducing the amount of medicines he was giving to Elvis. He was the only person who truly cared for Elvis—a true Good Samaritan.”
While Neal had found his defense argument, he also recognized that the people of Memphis adored Presley. He wasn’t sure his client could get a fair trial due to juror prejudice. But to prove that the jury pool had been tainted, Neal hired a jury consultant to survey local citizens.
The results proved shocking. Two-thirds of Memphis residents blamed Presley himself for the drug overdose, while only one in five thought his doctor was responsible. Even more interesting to Neal was that only 12 percent of those polled believed that Presley’s physician should have refused to treat him and should have turned the singer in to police. However, 70 percent believed that the doctor should have continued treating Presley in an effort to reduce his drug dependence.
Needless to say, Neal decided to keep the trial in Memphis.
In the Dr. Nick case, as in all of his court victories, Neal waited to pounce on any prosecution mistake. The opportunity presented itself with the state’s key expert medical witness, who was called to criticize Nichopoulos’ method of treatment. On direct examination by prosecutors, the doctor testified that he had written many scholarly articles on this exact subject.
“We knew this guy was going to testify, so we checked him out at the Vanderbilt medical school library and could not find a single article he had published in any medical journal,” says Neal.
On cross-examination, Neal asked the state’s expert to name the journals in which he claimed to be published. When the witness couldn’t, Neal began naming prominent medical journals, forcing the doctor to answer no to each. He even asked the state’s witness to make phone calls during a court break to get the names of the journals. But even after the break, the expert testified he couldn’t remember the names.
“His entire testimony was discredited by that mistake,” Neal says.
The state’s expert never recovered and neither did the prosecution’s case. The five-week trial ended on Nov. 5, 1981, when the jury composed of six men and six women took only three hours to find Nichopoulos not guilty on all counts.
(http://www.gifsparafacebook.com/emoticon_adm/mundoemoti_com014.gif) (http://www.gifsparafacebook.com/emoticon_adm/mundoemoti_com037.gif)
Neal admits he’s slowing down a bit. He wants to refocus his practice on helping the younger lawyers at his firm to become better trial lawyers. Asked why he thinks he’s had the privilege of trying so many high-profile and fascinating cases, Neal pauses, and then offers the briefest of explanations:
“Just damn luck. That’s all it has been.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/james_neal
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 04, 2011, 02:27:16 PM
Phrases phrases everywhere... I laugh every time I hear one such as This Is It, or man behind the curtain, Conman Murry etc. which is not a bad thing because for me dead or alive, emotions are riding high. errrr There's so many flash backs to 2005. We all want Michael's name & reputation cleared & of course this trial brings up all the unhealed wounds of the past. But if MJ IS dead or was killed... WHO would be able to run this show with all the information, dates, & delays and STILL make the numerology etc line up? NO ONE. There's NO WAY someone else would be able to know everything MJ has been working on for all these yrs; pick it up and run with it as a prank or cover up... NO WAY. suspicious//
HLN is running the verdict clock and emotions are running high among the fans. Lots of yelling back & forth between MJ fans and Murray supporters. Some are not being very nice. argue/
It's been over 3 hrs. Nov 4 + 3 hrs = 7... still no verdict. /judge/ So can we assume maybe this will be a SEVEN hour deliberation? that brings up some interesting numbers. Nov = 11th month. It's now Nov 4th. 4+7hrs deliberation = 11. 11,11,11 That may be totally bogus, but my mind is doing all kinds of crazy combos with numbers anymore...so who knows. "Remember remember the 5th of November"... ok, but that's tomorrow, a Sat. The Jury wont deliberate as far as I know bc they are not sequestered. Would they do so voluntarily??? It's an important date so SOMETHING will happen; it has to. That brings us to Monday; Nov 7th. Does 11-7 or 11-7-11 mean anything to anyone? Is there anyone that beLIEves this will drag on till Nov 11th? Highly doubtful.
Will you be there? YES always & forever.
bearhug
Post by: sigh on November 04, 2011, 02:38:53 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXhAQS-p9yM[/youtube]
@45:35
Post by: paula-c on November 04, 2011, 02:52:30 PM
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 04, 2011, 02:57:53 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 04, 2011, 03:00:42 PM
Edit: They just said someone alledgedly called on behalf of Katherine and she didn't get summoned? It's unclear as of now..
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 04, 2011, 03:02:00 PM
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on November 04, 2011, 03:11:28 PM
Donte Jackson just twitted something amazing. :)
Donte_Jackson Donte Jackson
in the coming years there will be an emergence of young buddhas and christ-like beings. i believe an enlightened age is upon us. #Oneness
Donte_Jackson Donte Jackson
2012 is not the end of anything but the systems currently governing our society. on 12/21/2012 we mystics will be dancing and celebrating.
party/
Post by: _Anna_ on November 04, 2011, 03:23:25 PM
http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/04/katherine-jackson-hotel-conrad-murray-trial/
Post by: Pippi Longstocking on November 04, 2011, 03:24:29 PM
They said they reached a verdict... any minute now. But something tells me it wont be read until the 5th of november. Actually, it would be awesome if the verdict is read today & BAM is tomorrow! /bravo/
I totally agree. “Remember, remember, the 5th of November...”. We've been waiting so long but now I have the feeling that we are closer to the truth than we ever were... Something is going to happen soon.
Post by: PureLove on November 04, 2011, 03:39:11 PM
I'm sorry this is off topic, but i don't know where to post it.
Donte Jackson just twitted something amazing. :)
Donte_Jackson Donte Jackson
in the coming years there will be an emergence of young buddhas and christ-like beings. i believe an enlightened age is upon us. #Oneness
Donte_Jackson Donte Jackson
2012 is not the end of anything but the systems currently governing our society. on 12/21/2012 we mystics will be dancing and celebrating.
party/
Very interesting tweets. :mrgreen: I do agree that 2012 is not the end but actually it is the beginning!
Thank you for posting Kristina.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 04, 2011, 03:40:32 PM
Post by: Vietnow on November 04, 2011, 03:55:06 PM
HLN's reporting is conflicting. Now Katherine IS going to court and the jury has not reached any verdict.
After Vinnie Politan mentioned Katherine will be showing up to court, he also said "Maybe she knows something that we don't." Probably means nothing, but it makes the mind race!
Post by: Suzy7 on November 04, 2011, 03:59:21 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on November 04, 2011, 04:00:16 PM
RealGenevieveJ Genevieve Jackson
by pariisjaxn
Waiting patiently for a verdict....
11 minutes ago
Post by: fordtocarr on November 04, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 04, 2011, 04:17:08 PM
Post by: Vietnow on November 04, 2011, 04:25:31 PM
Maybe it will be the 7th hour!
Post by: fordtocarr on November 04, 2011, 04:50:05 PM
duh...
Post by: applehead250609 on November 04, 2011, 05:15:59 PM
latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
by VinniePolitan
@hlntv #MurrayTrial @issueswithjvm @vinniepolitan JUSTICE HAS TO BE SERVED ON MURRAY AND THEN WE MUST GO AFTER THE OTHER CONSPIRES!
Why don't she TELL what those other ones ARE???
Wait,wait,I'm a little bit confuse now WTF??!!! Didn't Latoya said Murray is the FALL GUY???? Now she says that Murray is a part of CONSPIRATORS,or I'm confused :lol:????
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 04, 2011, 05:48:21 PM
OK. so we have now passed the 7th hour of deliberations. I wonder if the Jury will stay until around Midnight; then bam us with a verdict. This way we get the Nov 5th date; yet if its "close to Midnight" (Thriller) they will not have to stay in on Sat... Joe & Katherine are already close by. They will give the rest of the family a 2hr warning in order to get to the Courthouse; so I say they will possibly announce around 10pm... lolol/ I know they aren't sequestered and can leave soon; but what if they volunteer to stay? Is that a possibility? or will it be tonight at the last minute before they are dismissed for the day?
HLN is talking about the Elephant in the Courtroom. smiley_spider
Post by: diggyon on November 04, 2011, 06:00:51 PM
Remember remember the 5th of November...
OK. so we have now passed the 7th hour of deliberations. I wonder if the Jury will stay until around Midnight; then bam us with a verdict. This way we get the Nov 5th date; yet if its "close to Midnight" (Thriller) they will not have to stay in on Sat... Joe & Katherine are already close by. They will give the rest of the family a 2hr warning in order to get to the Courthouse; so I say they will possibly announce around 10pm... lolol/ I know they aren't sequestered and can leave soon; but what if they volunteer to stay? Is that a possibility? or will it be tonight at the last minute before they are dismissed for the day?
HLN is talking about the Elephant in the Courtroom. smiley_spider
How strange!!!!!
Post by: Coco on November 04, 2011, 06:04:15 PM
Remember remember the 5th of November...
OK. so we have now passed the 7th hour of deliberations. I wonder if the Jury will stay until around Midnight; then bam us with a verdict. This way we get the Nov 5th date; yet if its "close to Midnight" (Thriller) they will not have to stay in on Sat... Joe & Katherine are already close by. They will give the rest of the family a 2hr warning in order to get to the Courthouse; so I say they will possibly announce around 10pm... lolol/ I know they aren't sequestered and can leave soon; but what if they volunteer to stay? Is that a possibility? or will it be tonight at the last minute before they are dismissed for the day?
HLN is talking about the Elephant in the Courtroom. smiley_spider
According to TMZ's "jury clock" timer thing, we haven't yet reached six hours (they paused for lunch break)... So, Katherine would still be making her way down?
I think there's definitely something in the timing of all of this and it seems like a seven to me - because it would all add up.
However, the 5th of November definitely seems like a possibility, seeing as there's been so much emphasis placed on it.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 04, 2011, 06:05:09 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on November 04, 2011, 06:06:29 PM
Whatever verdict will be, it will not serve justice for Michael.
Where is the sting operation for the real justice for MJ?
Did 'they' get to the end yet? I don't "smell" anything.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 04, 2011, 06:06:42 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on November 04, 2011, 06:08:04 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on November 04, 2011, 06:09:31 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 04, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on November 04, 2011, 06:20:42 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 04, 2011, 06:23:45 PM
Post by: Coco on November 04, 2011, 06:25:41 PM
I guess, you are probably/were right. Seven and a half hours...
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 04, 2011, 06:27:59 PM
Post by: paula-c on November 04, 2011, 06:45:25 PM
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu262/MJLUV4ever/judge.jpg) :lol:
Post by: applehead250609 on November 04, 2011, 07:02:51 PM
Do you all remember when we all disscussed about ILLUMINATI? Well since Fordtocarr,was tweeting, what Latoya said about CONSPIRATORS does anybody here still BELIEVE in ILLUMINATI and CONSPIRATORS geek/?????
I will say what I always said,ILLUMINATI is a ILLUSION to scare PEOPLE,lol :lol: and if you want to see how RIDICULOUS this theory sounds,please WATCH IT LIVE at MURRAY trial ;) !!!
WAIT,WAIT,maybe I was wrong and SECRET GOVERNMENT killed Michael after all :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!! Watch starting at 2:45,ENJOY and please keep BELIEVING that ILLUMINATTI still EXIST!!!! :lol: mj_bad/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jb-QOeRmIE&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 04, 2011, 07:36:34 PM
Post by: paula-c on November 04, 2011, 07:40:54 PM
(http://www.igroops.com/g1/httpfairycom/appdata/hp/admin/new/trash.png)
(http://www.igroops.com/g1/httpfairycom/localimages/Nimue/trial/garbage1103.JPG)
Post by: paula-c on November 04, 2011, 07:56:08 PM
I know this is a LITTLE bit off topic,hey I have a question for you all geek/!!!!!
Do you all remember when we all disscussed about ILLUMINATI? Well since Fordtocarr,was tweeting, what Latoya said about CONSPIRATORS does anybody here still BELIEVE in ILLUMINATI and CONSPIRATORS geek/?????
I will say what I always said,ILLUMINATI is a ILLUSION to scare PEOPLE,lol :lol: and if you want to see how RIDICULOUS this theory sounds,please WATCH IT LIVE at MURRAY trial ;) !!!
WAIT,WAIT,maybe I was wrong and SECRET GOVERNMENT killed Michael after all :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!! Watch starting at 2:45,ENJOY and please keep BELIEVING that ILLUMINATTI still EXIST!!!! :lol: mj_bad/
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jb-QOeRmIE&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
ILLUMINATTI, Power that is exercised to the margin of formal channels (i.e. , which do not necessarily coincide with the apparatus of State ... nor is legitimized nor always looks for the legitimization to be exercised, but exercising de facto (in fact) ... Examples of factual power is the influence used by groups of power as can be the banking or on the oligarchy, the Church, or the mass media
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 04, 2011, 07:58:03 PM
the girls talking about Illuminati. Was she American at all?
Conspiracy in this case is not about "secret government" IMHO,
well.. depends on what you call secret society/government!
I never heard of Illuminati in my country, we only hear of
freemasons and Zionists, but the conspiracy Michael himself talked about -
and I totally believe him. The rich and powerful tycoons
wanted their milking cow to be their in life and death and to give
them profit 4ever.
And yes, his catalog was that $$$$$$$-desirable one, too.
Michael is not usual, he is dangerous one - they wanted 100% control,
they wanted catalog, they wanted more and more profit.
He was framed every time he was too dangerous/out of control/on his own :cry:
It's all about greed and profit really. Money :evil:
Klein now names some behind it all [to save his a$$ probably, guy looks scared and is losing it]. LaToya knows names too.
You can actually call it secret government as it's rich who rule
any country. Politicians are puppets of smaller group of rich.
And what I find interesting, all the 'Occupy ' activity going rampant bounce/
These are protests against richest rich who rule countries,
richest rich who framed Michael among others. If people can make them
scared, it would be wow. This is something Michael would approve.
I pray Michael found resources, maybe contacted his family in time.
Maybe family did the first move! They tried before, maybe they succeeded.
I pray he was the fast one. I pray he had time to do it right!
And if not, I pray his family won't give up and us fans won't abandon
him, so whoever was framing him, will be held accountable.
It's all for L.O.V.E , it's all for Michael. It's all for Truth.
I know I project my "sinister" murder theory vision here, but I spent a year studying it, and at the end I'm here on this site, that means the hope is reasonable enough. Please Michael, be the fast one.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 04, 2011, 08:54:04 PM
Blessings
Humanity's "FEAR" is keeping all of these "Boogey men" and "secret societies" alive...this is a way to control us! If we BELIEVE what the evil forces are telling us to believe then you yourself are creating that reality!!!! Once you understand that , you can then see how if you consciously change your thought patterns and think positive thoughts, thoughts of LOVE, then that is what you will create!! In order to make that change you have to really do it!!
This whole concept is hard for many to grasp, but when you do...HOLD ON TIGHT...be prepared to be blown away. The pieces just fall into place until nothing else makes sense!
This trial is just one part to this, but it is an important part. Look how the world is watching and talking about Michael right now . In the end Michael is going to be able to prove how easy it really is to control your MIND!!! Everyone, well most of the world thinks that Michael is dead. Why? because they believed what they were told!! POINT BLANK... no questions asked! That is control. Most of humanity is under mind control by the dark forces, but there are others, like myself, who have been awakened. I believe that we are meant to be loving beings and somewhere along the line we lost our true selves. Now it is time for all of us to reclaim the life that we were meant to live. We need to search within ourselves for "TRUTH". It is our "Time To Shine"!
This is all one big lesson for humanity. We have to be strong for what is to come. When the truth is fully revealed, the world is going to change as we know it. I do believe that we have been receiving help from others in the universe...wholeheartedly, and when that is revealed to the general public, most will be fearful, when there is nothing to be afraid of at all...If you truly believe what Michael has been telling us all along..."We need to bring LOVE back to the planet. We need to LOVE one another" We are filled with LOVE and LIGHT energy and when you realize how powerful that really is , in a good way, then you will Believe that all of this is really happening!
Each of us is on our own journey, yet our final goal is the same the Common Bond OF...LOVE!
Keep searching until you just KNOW!!!!
I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: looking4truth on November 04, 2011, 09:07:31 PM
Post by: looking4truth on November 04, 2011, 09:15:15 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 04, 2011, 09:20:35 PM
I posted this in another thread that doesn't really get read, but I think it is also relevant here. Please know that this is only my opinion, I am in no way trying to force this upon you. These are only my thoughts right now.
Blessings
Humanity's "FEAR" is keeping all of these "Boogey men" and "secret societies" alive...this is a way to control us! If we BELIEVE what the evil forces are telling us to believe then you yourself are creating that reality!!!! Once you understand that , you can then see how if you consciously change your thought patterns and think positive thoughts, thoughts of LOVE, then that is what you will create!! In order to make that change you have to really do it!!
This whole concept is hard for many to grasp, but when you do...HOLD ON TIGHT...be prepared to be blown away. The pieces just fall into place until nothing else makes sense!
This trial is just one part to this, but it is an important part. Look how the world is watching and talking about Michael right now . In the end Michael is going to be able to prove how easy it really is to control your MIND!!! Everyone, well most of the world thinks that Michael is dead. Why? because they believed what they were told!! POINT BLANK... no questions asked! That is control. Most of humanity is under mind control by the dark forces, but there are others, like myself, who have been awakened. I believe that we are meant to be loving beings and somewhere along the line we lost our true selves. Now it is time for all of us to reclaim the life that we were meant to live. We need to search within ourselves for "TRUTH". It is our "Time To Shine"!
This is all one big lesson for humanity. We have to be strong for what is to come. When the truth is fully revealed, the world is going to change as we know it. I do believe that we have been receiving help from others in the universe...wholeheartedly, and when that is revealed to the general public, most will be fearful, when there is nothing to be afraid of at all...If you truly believe what Michael has been telling us all along..."We need to bring LOVE back to the planet. We need to LOVE one another" We are filled with LOVE and LIGHT energy and when you realize how powerful that really is , in a good way, then you will Believe that all of this is really happening!
Each of us is on our own journey, yet our final goal is the same the Common Bond OF...LOVE!
Keep searching until you just KNOW!!!!
I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mjj4ever you are wrong that nobody is reading your posts,lol lolol/.I had just finished to read your post in the topic about New Jesus.You are really SPECIAL,you know that???I also read your post about CAN YOU FEEL IT
song,and and I gave you,even an ANSWER,but you did not reply to me:oops: .
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg368059#new (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg368059#new)
I don't know if you saw my message to you,but if you want ,please read it.
I will surprise you with a BOMB,lol, Donte Jackson knew all along ,I'm sure.Read here and DECIDE for yourself :shock::
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/cjcntx/Donte_Revolution.jpg)
It's one thing to be awake and aware, but to have hope we must Come Together to Make That Change! A Peaceful, Legal, Revolution to spread Truth.
"We are all doing too much sitting back, and reading & watching TV saying how awful it is and not actually doing something about it." Michael Jackson
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltvg6dNrhf1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltpc52uCvM1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
By the way does anybody here remember my post about Jim Carrey???? Well I think words are in vain...... ;)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltnt1sP0uC1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 04, 2011, 09:40:39 PM
Oh I just saw on the ABC special that one of the Cascios says that he told Michael, "You don't want to end up like Elvis, do you?" and that Michael was mad that he would even say that. Another Elvis mention.... I knew the verdict wasn't coming today. Gotta let it simmer. Haven't you learned anything from This Is It? ;)
;)
Patience, is the key to victory.
"Good things come to those who wait for it with perseverance and patience; but the impulsive and impatient person will pass from trouble to trouble."
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 04, 2011, 11:15:50 PM
Oh I just saw on the ABC special that one of the Cascios says that he told Michael, "You don't want to end up like Elvis, do you?" and that Michael was mad that he would even say that. Another Elvis mention.... I knew the verdict wasn't coming today. Gotta let it simmer. Haven't you learned anything from This Is It? ;)
;)
Patience, is the key to victory.
"Good things come to those who wait for it with perseverance and patience; but the impulsive and impatient person will pass from trouble to trouble."
AMEN...
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 04, 2011, 11:23:54 PM
I posted this in another thread that doesn't really get read, but I think it is also relevant here. Please know that this is only my opinion, I am in no way trying to force this upon you. These are only my thoughts right now.
Blessings
Humanity's "FEAR" is keeping all of these "Boogey men" and "secret societies" alive...this is a way to control us! If we BELIEVE what the evil forces are telling us to believe then you yourself are creating that reality!!!! Once you understand that , you can then see how if you consciously change your thought patterns and think positive thoughts, thoughts of LOVE, then that is what you will create!! In order to make that change you have to really do it!!
This whole concept is hard for many to grasp, but when you do...HOLD ON TIGHT...be prepared to be blown away. The pieces just fall into place until nothing else makes sense!
This trial is just one part to this, but it is an important part. Look how the world is watching and talking about Michael right now . In the end Michael is going to be able to prove how easy it really is to control your MIND!!! Everyone, well most of the world thinks that Michael is dead. Why? because they believed what they were told!! POINT BLANK... no questions asked! That is control. Most of humanity is under mind control by the dark forces, but there are others, like myself, who have been awakened. I believe that we are meant to be loving beings and somewhere along the line we lost our true selves. Now it is time for all of us to reclaim the life that we were meant to live. We need to search within ourselves for "TRUTH". It is our "Time To Shine"!
This is all one big lesson for humanity. We have to be strong for what is to come. When the truth is fully revealed, the world is going to change as we know it. I do believe that we have been receiving help from others in the universe...wholeheartedly, and when that is revealed to the general public, most will be fearful, when there is nothing to be afraid of at all...If you truly believe what Michael has been telling us all along..."We need to bring LOVE back to the planet. We need to LOVE one another" We are filled with LOVE and LIGHT energy and when you realize how powerful that really is , in a good way, then you will Believe that all of this is really happening!
Each of us is on our own journey, yet our final goal is the same the Common Bond OF...LOVE!
Keep searching until you just KNOW!!!!
I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mjj4ever you are wrong that nobody is reading your posts,lol lolol/.I had just finished to read your post in the topic about New Jesus.You are really SPECIAL,you know that???I also read your post about CAN YOU FEEL IT
song,and and I gave you,even an ANSWER,but you did not reply to me:oops: .
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg368059#new (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=5167.msg368059#new)
I don't know if you saw my message to you,but if you want ,please read it.
I will surprise you with a BOMB,lol, Donte Jackson knew all along ,I'm sure.Read here and DECIDE for yourself :shock::
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/cjcntx/Donte_Revolution.jpg)
It's one thing to be awake and aware, but to have hope we must Come Together to Make That Change! A Peaceful, Legal, Revolution to spread Truth.
"We are all doing too much sitting back, and reading & watching TV saying how awful it is and not actually doing something about it." Michael Jackson
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltvg6dNrhf1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltpc52uCvM1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
By the way does anybody here remember my post about Jim Carrey???? Well I think words are in vain...... ;)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltnt1sP0uC1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
"The signs" are everywhere applehead! Thank you staying on the path! The deeper you search for "Truth", the more evidence you find and "experience", to prove that it IS "Truth!"
We are ONE...LIVE LOVE and BE THE CHANGE!
I LOVE YOU!
Post by: Okay Annie on November 05, 2011, 12:22:18 AM
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Post by: curls on November 05, 2011, 04:50:45 AM
Then the jury - do they think they are deliberating a real case or are they actors? If they are 'real' then wouldn't it follow that MJ has no control over timing or outcome? Either he has plans for every eventuality and can take this forward whatever the jury decides (much like those books my kids used to love in the late '80s/early '90s where you could decide the twists and turns and ultimate end of a story), or he has everything planned already in which case the jury must be 'plants'.
I think I favour him having everything planned! But of course I could easily be totally wrong!
This is really exciting! Based on what I heard in court, if I was a jury member I'm pretty sure I'd be voting guilty because even if Murray told the truth about what he gave MJ, and MJ had self-administered the fatal dose, Murray was still grossly negligent in all the ways we heard about, and he should not have allowed MJ to be in a position where he could self administer.
But of course, I know Murray is not guilty! The jury may come to that decision too if they believe MJ did it to himself and that Murray shouldn't be held responsible for MJ's actions. But if they're actors they just have to follow the script! (I wonder, in that case, what they found to do all day yesterday in the deliberations room!)
Not guilty would be the most controversial verdict and as such, knowing MJ's liking for controversy, is probably what is going to happen (even though guilty would seem the 'right' verdict). It leaves open great opportunity for more action from family, non-believers and those seeking 'justice for Michael'.
Oh goodness, MJ, just how far are you going to take this, how long do you intend to make it last? Till everyone has caught on to your grand illusion maybe?
I'm notoriously bad at guessing what's going to happen in who-dunnits and courtroom dramas, so all of the above may well be nonsense - but it's a good workout for my brain at least! Loving it!
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 05, 2011, 05:06:26 AM
Or is this trial happening just so that MJ can clear his name?
Possible reasons for the sting, in my opinion are things such as corruption (lawyers and/or judges) or against the medical system etc...and since I don't feel it's either of these, although it could possibly be about the last one, then who is this sting for?
Or could this trial be a joke on the media?
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 05, 2011, 05:54:15 AM
I'm still wondering how much of court/jury is 'real' and how much is hoax. How many of the people we have seen in court are 'in on it'? Many, I'm almost sure, but not all, maybe!
Then the jury - do they think they are deliberating a real case or are they actors? If they are 'real' then wouldn't it follow that MJ has no control over timing or outcome? Either he has plans for every eventuality and can take this forward whatever the jury decides (much like those books my kids used to love in the late '80s/early '90s where you could decide the twists and turns and ultimate end of a story), or he has everything planned already in which case the jury must be 'plants'.
@ curls - i am at the same crossroad that you are at in regards to what is real and what is not... who is 'in on it' who is not. what is fake, what is real. who is acting playing a role and who are not aware..... either scenario raises questions for myself. watchin' cant wait to see what unfolds in the next week...
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 05, 2011, 05:56:47 AM
Or could this trial be a joke on the media?
@ illusion - i was thinking this also, but then it raises the Q would the judicial system use or waste (in want of a better word) their resources on a sting against media....
i dunno, i think it has to be bigger... (IMHO)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 05, 2011, 05:59:13 AM
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
(http://www.tanyayoungwilliams.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Got-milk-small.jpg)
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!
Quote
Friday of week two, on the street, had me in stitches. As I walked up the stairs from my 8AM “hit” on KTLA, I saw a sign where Michael Jackson’s supporters stand that read “Got Milk”. My twisted mind thought that someone creative was “referring to propofol”. When I was close enough to read the entire sign, I realized that Michael Jackson’s supporters had been joined, behind their yellow plastic divider, by a group supporting their friends who were charged with a felony for illegally selling unpasteurized milk, also known as Raw Milk. This group was boisterous and excited to tell me why raw milk is much healthier than the “stuff” we buy in the stores. This group of supporters far outnumbered Michael Jackson’s supporters that day but in my mind, they were all standing behind the yellow plastic divider in passionate unison telling about the harms of “Milk”.
Post by: RK on November 05, 2011, 07:22:33 AM
Jesus Christmas. Once again I can hear Mr Front and his got milk quip and Latoya making milkshakes for charity way early in the hoax.@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
(http://www.tanyayoungwilliams.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Got-milk-small.jpg)
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!QuoteFriday of week two, on the street, had me in stitches. As I walked up the stairs from my 8AM “hit” on KTLA, I saw a sign where Michael Jackson’s supporters stand that read “Got Milk”. My twisted mind thought that someone creative was “referring to propofol”. When I was close enough to read the entire sign, I realized that Michael Jackson’s supporters had been joined, behind their yellow plastic divider, by a group supporting their friends who were charged with a felony for illegally selling unpasteurized milk, also known as Raw Milk. This group was boisterous and excited to tell me why raw milk is much healthier than the “stuff” we buy in the stores. This group of supporters far outnumbered Michael Jackson’s supporters that day but in my mind, they were all standing behind the yellow plastic divider in passionate unison telling about the harms of “Milk”.
Wishingstar, look what you've started here. MJ...you got one whacky sense of humour man, but I'm lovin' it. Now, where did I leave that straight jacket?
Post by: wishingstar on November 05, 2011, 08:06:54 AM
"Wishingstar, look what you've started here." :lol: :oops: :lol: geek/
I dare say, I know! Too funny.........
I don't remember the milkshake comment. All I say is....guess I'll be buying some Christmas Milk. Maybe that should be the drink of choice for BAMsday......
I am sure it will go well with cake, pie.....stoopwaffle-thingys-that-look-utterly-amazing :lol:
Can you help me post a picture of this stuff......maybe off their site?
@applehead......thank you for the quote/info about that RAW milk....interesting, indeed!
Have an awesome November 5th
LOVE & Blessings
Post by: RK on November 05, 2011, 08:38:49 AM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 05, 2011, 08:54:33 AM
Jesus Christmas. Once again I can hear Mr Front and his got milk quip and Latoya making milkshakes for charity way early in the hoax.@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
(http://www.tanyayoungwilliams.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Got-milk-small.jpg)
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!QuoteFriday of week two, on the street, had me in stitches. As I walked up the stairs from my 8AM “hit” on KTLA, I saw a sign where Michael Jackson’s supporters stand that read “Got Milk”. My twisted mind thought that someone creative was “referring to propofol”. When I was close enough to read the entire sign, I realized that Michael Jackson’s supporters had been joined, behind their yellow plastic divider, by a group supporting their friends who were charged with a felony for illegally selling unpasteurized milk, also known as Raw Milk. This group was boisterous and excited to tell me why raw milk is much healthier than the “stuff” we buy in the stores. This group of supporters far outnumbered Michael Jackson’s supporters that day but in my mind, they were all standing behind the yellow plastic divider in passionate unison telling about the harms of “Milk”.
Wishingstar, look what you've started here. MJ...you got one whacky sense of humour man, but I'm lovin' it. Now, where did I leave that straight jacket?
RK you are very funny ,you know that :lol:???? But I think Michael is a MILION TIMES FUNNYER,look what he has done to us all,lol :lol:.I swear ,I didn't LAUGHED so much in my entire life :lol:.Now I see is true what all his friends said.He is THE BIGEST PRANKESTER in the world geek/ ,and so is LATOYA ;)!!!!!!!
(http://images.dailyfill.com/e648174b69e9425b_ab028bb806d239f7_o.jpg)
Let's see,is Michael THE KING OF PRANKS or no lolol/?????
Quote
Some of MJ's friends and associates gave their account of MJ's pranks and jokes. He was a man that loved to laugh and pull pranks on people. It was often said that you couldn't be near him with out him pulling at least one prank on you, ahh I wish I got a chance to experience that...Michael Jackson - King of....Pranks???
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUyM5OC7DBM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
LOVE
Post by: RK on November 05, 2011, 09:19:08 AM
OH, and Applehead, keep a bag packed cause after they pick up wishingstar and myself, they'll be coming for you. /white flag/
Post by: wishingstar on November 05, 2011, 09:20:27 AM
Yes, Michael is indeed the King of Pranks....what a great, refreshing, fun video to watch....love it! Sam's t-shirt says it all......."The Light at the End of the Tunnel"
LOVE YOU........
Blessings
RK.....I pass the jacket back to you with LOVE bearhug :lol:
Post by: wishingstar on November 05, 2011, 09:22:58 AM
I bow to the KING OF PRANKS bow/ . I loved that video applehead. bearhug
OH, and Applehead, keep a bag packed cause after they pick up wishingstar and myself, they'll be coming for you. /white flag/
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ain't that the truth!!!!!
You are so funny!!!!!
This is for us RK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA
Post by: bec on November 05, 2011, 09:57:35 AM
It seems that the script is designed to make Murray look as guilty and incompetent as can be. I haven't seen them give the jury any real good reason to acquit.
If the jury is real and MJ wanted an acquittal , I would expect the discrepancies with the timeline to be addressed by Chernoff. I would also expect him to make a big deal about the conflicting statements of the paramedics and Alvarez. I would also expect Chernoff to Perry Mason moment the moved items in the police death scene photographs. I would also expect their star witness to perform better (White). The defense hasn't given the jury any reason to decide Not Guilty... and we know there's plenty of reasons.
It looks to me like MJ is stacking the deck to ensure a Guilty verdict because the jury is indeed real, and they must be properly convinced of guilt, without making it obvious that this trial is fake.
This works out perfectly because the script that illustrates Murray's "obvious" guilt plays directly into the hands of the unsuspecting media and general public who are all CERTAIN of what the verdict SHOULD be. The more certain people think they are... the greater the shock value when they find out they are wrong.
But we need to be careful... we can fall into the same trap as they.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 05, 2011, 11:07:07 AM
But, the other day when we found out that Murray has been giving interviews, (we sure aren't hearing them!! WHY?) and that he's made a documentary (HOW when he has no money? And who paid for it because it has to be some production company and not a network or studio, because it's being shopped around for someone to buy)I began to think about all the pics we have seen of him, and how they seem to be from one source. And how the photographer seems to always BE in the right place. And how Murray isn't afraid...NOW we KNOW!!
So, I came to my verdict decision because of this documentary, that just happens to have been leaked to the media on the same day the trial rested and went to the jury!
I've figured, that a documentary is to, of course, make money. Murray is the star of it (aside from an invisibly "dead" Michael). How could the star go out and promote the documentary and how huge would this really be if he was sitting in jail???
I figure he'll get off all charges..aquittal for reasonable doubt. I would agree that the prosecution presented the best case ever!! But, that is part of the shock value!! It will be outrage! It will spark even more interest. It will be on everyone's tongue and thoughts, and they'll want to hear more. Thus the movie.
Also, what interest is there if he goes to jail not to be heard from for awhile??
Free, he's out giving interviews..keeping Michael's name out there.
Just my opinion, and I've hated to guess, but..now... ;)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 05, 2011, 01:03:04 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 05, 2011, 01:14:31 PM
(http://christmasmilk.com/images/32oz.jpg) My sweet Wishingstar...you do realize we are way out on a limb with this one. Ah well, it is good to know I will have you for company when they come to take us away. :-[
TO ALL BELIEVERS
HELP YOURSELVES please! lmao :)))
t'chin t'chin! MILK is the official hoax-drink! ;) loll :))
(http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/1051/image16i.jpg)
HELP YOURSELVES please! lmao :)))
t'chin t'chin! MILK is the official hoax-drink! ;) loll :))
(http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/1051/image16i.jpg)
Post by: BeTheChange on November 05, 2011, 01:37:03 PM
So, it's obvious that the 'script' called for this, as bec pointed out. Everyone, jury included (IF they are a 'real' jury)...is 'supposed' to think Murray is guilty. A lot of us kept saying that unless Murray takes the stand OR MJ BAMS during the trial...there's not much that will save Murray from a guilty verdict.
But I am still stuck on TS making the point about the jury not being allowed to use the internet and whatever we write here not having any bearing on their decision(s). In one of his recent posts, he pointed towards one of my posts about this very topic...that the jury SHOULD be allowed to see all our research because the only way for them to return a 'true' verdict is for them to know this 'side' of the story.
Then I think about Front's post about 'Exhibit B gonna rock this trial'...there was no such exhibit, at least not that we've seen presented in court (i.e. no exhibit has 'rocked this trial'). It could be that Front was mistaken or that the 'plan' for a certain exhibit changed or that Front is full of shit :lol:. Or maybe, as others have previously stated...maybe WE are exhibit B...the exhibit that is 'gonna rock this trial' and save Murray. Other than a BAM, at this point, WE are the only ones that can save Murray.
Given that it's pretty clear that Mike has 'access' to the courtroom...the toys, the seal, etc...and things can be 'placed' if needed or so desired....what IF, along with all the other evidence, the jury has been given printouts of forum posts, a booklet of some sort showing our 'proof' of Mike being alive? That could explain why there was no quick verdict...and if true, they have a TON of stuff to read lol. It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law.
TS did keep telling us that we were being 'tested'....maybe THIS will be our ultimate test? The jury will decide if we've 'proven' our case beyond a reasonable doubt. Wouldn't THAT be something??? Have we 'proven' a hoax beyond a reasonable doubt? I tend to think we have....based on the shitload of info on this site and the amount of research and great contributions from everyone....but maybe I'm seeing it through 'biased' eyes. Did we do enough to convince those 12 people that Murray IS innocent because Mike's not dead?
Of course...these are just ramblings in my head and for all we know, the jury will never see all the research on this website. But it sure is exciting (and scary) to think that it could be US who are under the microscope now...and that Murray's 'freedom' depends on us.
I'll have my bag packed and ready for the round-up of the 'loonies' :lol:
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. Welcome back Gina...hope your surgery went well and that you're feeling better bearhug
Post by: scorpionchik on November 05, 2011, 02:38:18 PM
Yes Michaels loves HIS MILK very much ;),but you have to understand that he has his HEALTHY/RAW MILK from his COWS from NEVERLAND,he doesent need MILK from Stores which is pasteurized and unhealthy :x !!!
Let's see,is Michael THE KING OF PRANKS or no lolol/?????QuoteSome of MJ's friends and associates gave their account of MJ's pranks and jokes. He was a man that loved to laugh and pull pranks on people. It was often said that you couldn't be near him with out him pulling at least one prank on you, ahh I wish I got a chance to experience that...Michael Jackson - King of....Pranks???
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUyM5OC7DBM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
LOVE
Oh, I love the video. Michael is full of life, he just could not die. I want him back so badly. This reminded me of Uri G. and Pianogames guy, it's been a long time nothing from them. There was a time we thought MJ is hiding in his house or he knows where Michael is. All doors are being shut down. I wonder which door will Michael open soon for come back. :(
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 05, 2011, 02:55:19 PM
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
Post by: wishingstar on November 05, 2011, 03:04:02 PM
(http://christmasmilk.com/images/32oz.jpg) My sweet Wishingstar...you do realize we are way out on a limb with this one. Ah well, it is good to know I will have you for company when they come to take us away. :-[
I totally missed that you posted the picture...we must have been cross-posting (that didn't sound right :lol:)
Thank you!
You know, if I didn't actually see this product with my own eyes, in my own grocery store...I'd think it was a joke...that someone just created this bottle in reference to the hoax. I have to buy a bottle....just have to.
All in the name of research, of course...have to see if it's good egg nog : ) I am sure my hips will understand, lol.
@SimPattyK.........definitely the drink of choice for the hoax.......love your milk photos : )
@Scorpionchik.....indeed Pianogames..ah, I remember those videos so well...love them. Uri is still an interesting figure to me. I think sometimes he goes under the radar and nobody pays much attention at times....or he's just very quiet. Pianogames was king of the videos at one time. When he did that whole thing about meeting Uri, I was sure they were both in on things....still am fairly sure they are linked to this all somehow. The guy in the video does resemble Pianogames dude....great catch. Why do think all doors are being shut down? Because people talk about Michael in past tense? I feel doors were all closed June 25th and they are now slowly opening one at a time........painstakingly slowly, but opening. One of these doors about to open will be the shock of our lives......shock the world type of shock. Hang in there.....it's only going to get better......it might get more difficult still, but it will get better.
@Snoopy71.....your guess is as good as mine with the almond milk.......maybe it's a reference to we are all nuts, lol. Good catch on that really....I do remember the whole Almond Milk with granola.....interesting!
Blessings to all..........
Yes, good know I'll have company, lol!!! You're too funny..........
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 05, 2011, 05:17:46 PM
@applehead......LaTotoya looks fabulous with her milkshake : ) I want one!
Yes, Michael is indeed the King of Pranks....what a great, refreshing, fun video to watch....love it! Sam's t-shirt says it all......."The Light at the End of the Tunnel"
LOVE YOU........
Blessings
RK.....I pass the jacket back to you with LOVE bearhug :lol:
You took the words right out of my mouth Wishingstar! "The LIGHT at the end of the tunnel" This stood out to me also...it says it all doesn't it! Please know that you are LOVED!
@applehead...You rock!!! Thank you for all of the wonderful video's that warm and nourish our souls, because Michael is good for the soul! I just love hearing these stories about him enjoying his life, and all the pranks he pulled...Bless you...You know I LOVE You!!!
I hope everyone is having a beautiful day, and I hope you are all paying the LOVE forward!!!
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 05, 2011, 06:42:38 PM
It seems that the script is designed to make Murray look as guilty and incompetent as can be. I haven't seen them give the jury any real good reason to acquit.
It looks to me like MJ is stacking the deck to ensure a Guilty verdict because the jury is indeed real, and they must be properly convinced of guilt, without making it obvious that this trial is fake.
@ bec. i love this point that you made as i often think to myself, CM has been painted in the worst possible light... there would not be another doc on earth that has been painted as negligent as murray.
i mean if you look at phone calls while mj was reportedly dying, doing cpr on bed in stead of hard surface, not calling 911 til a long time after mj reportedly stopped breathing, the administering of propofol in a home environment, all the other unpfrofessional things that CM has supposedly done... no doc in their right mind would do the things cm has reported to have done...
unprofessional, unorthidoxed, incompetent, unethical... all of these things stacked up against him. how on earth could one medical professional fail so grossly on so many levels with a patient. this is someone who has done 6 yrs min in med school to become a practicing doc..
thats my point, no one in the med field could fail so grossly in so many areas. the level of unprofessionalism and negligence screams OTT, therefore possibly the script is written to ensure a guilty verdict is found... it seems deliberate that a doc could be this incompetant, so I agree with you Bec that possibly MJ is ensuring a G verdict is found.
honestly i just dont know which way this will go and am just waiting to see. but never has a medical professional been portrayed so poorly....
Post by: scorpionchik on November 05, 2011, 07:25:22 PM
@Scorpionchik.....indeed Pianogames..ah, I remember those videos so well...love them. Uri is still an interesting figure to me. I think sometimes he goes under the radar and nobody pays much attention at times....or he's just very quiet. Pianogames was king of the videos at one time. When he did that whole thing about meeting Uri, I was sure they were both in on things....still am fairly sure they are linked to this all somehow. The guy in the video does resemble Pianogames dude....great catch. Why do think all doors are being shut down? Because people talk about Michael in past tense? I feel doors were all closed June 25th and they are now slowly opening one at a time........painstakingly slowly, but opening. One of these doors about to open will be the shock of our lives......shock the world type of shock. Hang in there.....it's only going to get better......it might get more difficult still, but it will get better.
@Blessings to all..........
Yes, good know I'll have company, lol!!! You're too funny..........
What I mean about doors is that we were waiting for July, MJ did not come bacl, wated for Easter, MJ is not back, Halloweens, 4th of July, trial....Michael is not back yet. So, what is the right time and right door for Michael to return if there is one? All numerology and possible ASSumption of return day have passed, Michael is not with us yet. I won't be surprised if MJ does not come back. I would not be him. It's just very sad, sad situation or I am not in mood.........:(
Post by: PureLove on November 05, 2011, 07:29:29 PM
BUT on the other hand, everything is going parallel with Elvis and Elvis' doctor found not guilty. So, Murray is going to be found not guilty too? Then this means the jury is in on the hoax too. And again, I will be thinking what the sting was for. We'll see.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 05, 2011, 08:18:22 PM
Post by: PureLove on November 05, 2011, 08:21:44 PM
I think verdict will be read on either the 7th, the 9th, or the 11th :mrgreen:
11.11.11 is an interesting date for sure. ;)
OFF TOPIC: Your siggy is soooooooooooooo adorable MJFAN7. I can not take my eyes off him and the cute kid. :mrgreen:
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 05, 2011, 08:24:09 PM
P.S. Where is TS? Aren't we graduating to the next level?? blessings.
Post by: Adi on November 05, 2011, 08:34:34 PM
Post by: bec on November 05, 2011, 08:42:17 PM
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
Post by: Search4Truth on November 05, 2011, 08:49:40 PM
This is my first time posting. However, I have been reading since the beginning. So what is the verdict? Is Murray Guilty? Was there a drip? If no drip, must acquit? Of course, drip or no drip, Murray is guilty for using hospital, operating room anesthisia as a sleeping aid in MJ's bedroom with no monitoring equipment and no back up system. However, I am not sure if MJ's script calls for Conrad Murray to be "Guilty" or "not Guilty". I am going to humor MJ and vote for a Guilty verdict. Is anyone else voting?
Post by: RK on November 05, 2011, 09:05:49 PM
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
Post by: PureLove on November 05, 2011, 09:49:11 PM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 05, 2011, 09:49:40 PM
I think verdict will be read on either the 7th, the 9th, or the 11th :mrgreen:
11.11.11 is an interesting date for sure. ;)
OFF TOPIC: Your siggy is soooooooooooooo adorable MJFAN7. I can not take my eyes off him and the cute kid. :mrgreen:
Yes, it is very interesting !
& awwh
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lso4ioTL0i1qlrzy2.gif)
thank youu ! <3 :mrgreen:
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 05, 2011, 09:50:26 PM
So, it's obvious that the 'script' called for this, as bec pointed out. Everyone, jury included (IF they are a 'real' jury)...is 'supposed' to think Murray is guilty. A lot of us kept saying that unless Murray takes the stand OR MJ BAMS during the trial...there's not much that will save Murray from a guilty verdict.
But I am still stuck on TS making the point about the jury not being allowed to use the internet and whatever we write here not having any bearing on their decision(s). In one of his recent posts, he pointed towards one of my posts about this very topic...that the jury SHOULD be allowed to see all our research because the only way for them to return a 'true' verdict is for them to know this 'side' of the story.
Then I think about Front's post about 'Exhibit B gonna rock this trial'...there was no such exhibit, at least not that we've seen presented in court (i.e. no exhibit has 'rocked this trial'). It could be that Front was mistaken or that the 'plan' for a certain exhibit changed or that Front is full of shit :lol:. Or maybe, as others have previously stated...maybe WE are exhibit B...the exhibit that is 'gonna rock this trial' and save Murray. Other than a BAM, at this point, WE are the only ones that can save Murray.
Given that it's pretty clear that Mike has 'access' to the courtroom...the toys, the seal, etc...and things can be 'placed' if needed or so desired....what IF, along with all the other evidence, the jury has been given printouts of forum posts, a booklet of some sort showing our 'proof' of Mike being alive? That could explain why there was no quick verdict...and if true, they have a TON of stuff to read lol. It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law...TS did keep telling us that we were being 'tested'
OMG! How could I have missed that! I think you may be on to something. Maybe we (this forum) are exhibit B. Although I don't know how that would come into play since both sides have rested and passed this case on to the jury.
So Nov 5th has come with no verdict, no redirect or post by TS... The only thing happening here is TBS is playing The Wizard of Oz last night and tonight. So I guess like everyone else here I wait for Nov 7th or 11-11-11 to see what happens next.
Praise the Lord & pass the Christmas Milk & Elf Nuts; my bags are packed. beerchug bearhug
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 05, 2011, 11:09:55 PM
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
ELF NUTS!!!! lolol/ now that's funny!! Nothing would surprise me right now! What a wild and crazy ride I've been on the last 2+ years! never would I have have dreamed that it would end, the way that it will, but let me tell you...The BEST is yet to come!!!
Michael, I am so humbled by the lessons you have taught me. My life will never be the same, and that is a great thing! This journey gave my life meaning and purpose, it made me see that I truly am here witnessing all of this for a "reason". Thank you Michael, I will always be right by your side...I KNOW that "Anything" is possible, when you Believe in yourself and you Believe in the power of LOVE! I Truly LOVE YOU with all of my Heart and Soul! Namaste
Blessings LOVE and LIGHT to all of you ...Keep The Faith!
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 05, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
So, it's obvious that the 'script' called for this, as bec pointed out. Everyone, jury included (IF they are a 'real' jury)...is 'supposed' to think Murray is guilty. A lot of us kept saying that unless Murray takes the stand OR MJ BAMS during the trial...there's not much that will save Murray from a guilty verdict.
But I am still stuck on TS making the point about the jury not being allowed to use the internet and whatever we write here not having any bearing on their decision(s). In one of his recent posts, he pointed towards one of my posts about this very topic...that the jury SHOULD be allowed to see all our research because the only way for them to return a 'true' verdict is for them to know this 'side' of the story.
Then I think about Front's post about 'Exhibit B gonna rock this trial'...there was no such exhibit, at least not that we've seen presented in court (i.e. no exhibit has 'rocked this trial'). It could be that Front was mistaken or that the 'plan' for a certain exhibit changed or that Front is full of shit :lol:. Or maybe, as others have previously stated...maybe WE are exhibit B...the exhibit that is 'gonna rock this trial' and save Murray. Other than a BAM, at this point, WE are the only ones that can save Murray.
Given that it's pretty clear that Mike has 'access' to the courtroom...the toys, the seal, etc...and things can be 'placed' if needed or so desired....what IF, along with all the other evidence, the jury has been given printouts of forum posts, a booklet of some sort showing our 'proof' of Mike being alive? That could explain why there was no quick verdict...and if true, they have a TON of stuff to read lol. It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law...TS did keep telling us that we were being 'tested'
OMG! How could I have missed that! I think you may be on to something. Maybe we (this forum) are exhibit B. Although I don't know how that would come into play since both sides have rested and passed this case on to the jury.
So Nov 5th has come with no verdict, no redirect or post by TS... The only thing happening here is TBS is playing The Wizard of Oz last night and tonight. So I guess like everyone else here I wait for Nov 7th or 11-11-11 to see what happens next.
Praise the Lord & pass the Christmas Milk & Elf Nuts; my bags are packed. beerchug bearhug
That makes absolutely sense. TS must be an insider, someone who knows Michael and the Jacksons, for all we know he can be Michael, (maybe not) he is the one who probably printed out all our hard work to give to the jury to read. Great thinking..
Post by: scorpionchik on November 05, 2011, 11:31:23 PM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 05, 2011, 11:45:48 PM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
Scorpionchick, how do you explain what La Toya said, watch the Illusionist and read between the lines.. I saw the movie and in the movie the doctor was in the hoax with the illusionist. So Murray is in the hoax, that is for sure. What makes you say that Murray is not in the hoax???
Post by: scorpionchik on November 06, 2011, 12:05:33 AM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
Scorpionchick, how do you explain what La Toya said, watch the Illusionist and read between the lines.. I saw the movie and in the movie the doctor was in the hoax with the illusionist. So Murray is in the hoax, that is for sure. What makes you say that Murray is not in the hoax???
La Toya says read between lines, that means, watch the "Illusionist" but do NOT take the subject in it AS IS , but interpret other way: Michael stings his own vendetta operation against assasination attempt that was orginized and tried to accomplish through fall guy Murray. Even the prosecutor who tries to convict Murray for manslaughter, FAILS to bring charges against REAL PEOPLE who behind the assasination of Michael Jackson. The LAPD investigation is incomplete and full of errors and omissions; prosecutor shall not accept and place ONLY manslaughter charges to convict anyone based on that shady investigation, whereas it is obvious that there was a murder attempt.
That is what I see. Neveretheless, ALL WE SAY is speculation until the time is right for MJ to come back and tell his TRUE story.
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 06, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
This is very IMPORTANT info. I am now stating that these dudes Shafer and White that are quoted in the wiki article are the very same who were on the witness stand. This wiki page is stating that this guy Reuben did the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. This guy influenced how doctors treated patients and pharm companies who made the medicine. He influenced the FDA. The impact of what this guy did is now being seen in patients who took the drugs mentioned. This guy invented patients and never even performed the studies.There was a fair amount of discussion concerning the papers submitted for peer review, the process etc; it made me think of something I had read earlier. It's about the case of Scott Reuben who fooled the community of anesthesia during several years. His fraudulent work had apparently a great influence, which is quite worrying imo. I think the subject of pharmaceutical industries and how they process so that they influence the studies is underlying. Anyway I thought the information was interesting...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scott S. Reuben
Scott S. Reuben (born 1958) was Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts and chief of acute pain at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts before being sentenced to prison for health care fraud. Reuben was considered a prolific and influential researcher in pain management, and his purported findings altered the way millions of patients are treated for pain during and after orthopedic surgeries.[1] Reuben has now admitted that he never conducted any of the clinical trials on which his conclusions were based "in what may be considered the longest-running and widest-ranging cases of academic fraud."[2] Scientific American has called Reuben the medical equivalent of Bernie Madoff, the former NASDAQ chairman who was convicted of orchestrating a $65-billion Ponzi scheme.[1]
Reuben fell under suspicion when Baystate conducted a routine audit in May 2008 which revealed Reuben hadn't gotten approval for two studies he'd intended to present during the hospital's research week. On March 10, 2009 a Baystate spokeswoman announced that Reuben admitted to fabricating much of the data underlying his research. Reuben never conducted the clinical trials that he wrote about in 21 journal articles dating from at least 1996.[1][2] In some cases, he even invented the patients.[4] Although Reuben often co-wrote papers with other researchers, Baystate found that the other researchers did not know about or participate in Reuben's studies,[4] and their names were forged on documents.[1][3] The hospital asked the journals to retract the studies, which reported favorable results from painkillers including Pfizer Inc.'s Bextra, Celebrex and Lyrica and Merck & Co. Inc.'s Vioxx. His studies also claimed Wyeth's antidepressant Effexor could be used as a painkiller. Pfizer gave Reuben five research grants between 2002 and 2007. He was a paid member of the company's speakers bureau, giving talks about Pfizer drugs to colleagues.[5][6] Reuben also wrote to the Food and Drug Administration, urging the agency not to restrict the use of many of the painkillers he studied, citing his own data on their safety and effectiveness.[6]
"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. [7] "His findings had a huge impact on the field."[5] He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology.[4] Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben
ps: maybe that the subject of level 7 will be about the verdict. Guilty or Not guilty? smiley_spider
Sarahli-This is very good info you have come across. I had no idea of this but look at the names. This is big. IF these are the very same dudes testifying now, then this info you found could be why these two have been called as expert witnesses. Exposure of corruption? smiley_spiderQuote"Doctors have been using (his) findings very widely," said Dr. Steven Shafer, editor of Anesthesia and Analgesia, a scientific journal that published ten articles identified as containing fraudulent data. "His findings had a huge impact on the field." He also described Reuben's actions as the biggest case of fraud in the history of anesthesiology. Paul White, another editor at the journal, estimates that Reuben's studies led to the sale of billions of dollars worth of drugs which may have actually slowed down recovery times for patients.
Shafer and White both published Rueben's work in their journals. Now if they did that and thought is was real how good are these guys when it comes to being experts?
They did prove that is was impossible for MJ to have kept injecting himself to stay asleep or overdose. They proved that in order for MJ to stay asleep there would have to have been a continuous infusion of Propofol because the amount Murray said he gave would not have kept him asleep for long.
Something to think about when deciding if there is a sting or not. Some of the sting will not be known to us but if this info makes the public aware of what the people [who we are putting our trust into] are REALLY about then that is surely worth it even IF we don't get confirmation. I wrote about this possibility before
My list could never get specific and name names because there is most likely never going to be full disclosure of who the targets are/were and who they caught with the sting.and recently TS spoke on the subject. Even though he was answering Anna about the 911 call timing he did add
Quote
The reality is that some things are complex, and most likely you will NEVER get answers to any and all possible questions on all of the fine details of how everything happened—not now, or even after BAM.
Trublu wrote: “A simple explanation about the time being shown an reported as 12:21 would have been a lot simpler.”{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg365855.html#msg365855}.
What if the explanation is NOT simple (which is the case with the 911 call)? The reality is that some things are complex, and most likely you will NEVER get answers to any and all possible questions on all of the fine details of how everything happened—not now, or even after BAM.
There is alot of info being over looked that does provide reasonable doubt to find Murray Not Guilty. The jury is real and they are deciding on Murray's Guilt or Innocence based on fake planted evidence. They are taking their job serious and that is why there was not a quick decision. Some of you have not taken the defenses case into consideration where they proved and Fleak admitted to tampering with evidence. She also did a shitty job collecting evidence.
I am adding videos from E. Fleak's testimony because there is alot of info in her statements made during her testimony that show incompetence regardless of the fact that the death wasn't ruled a homicide until later. Even IF it was just a death scene when she went in I would think that it would be common sense to treat the scene as IF there may be foul play just in case it turns out that way. The evidence she could have documented on that day could be scrutinized later and would be helpful now during the trial.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNPLfnNom8&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]QuoteUploaded by JustMeSTKK on Oct 6, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 8 - 06.10.2011
I am glad this is not me on trial and some of you deciding my fate because some of you are jumping to conclusions to fast and are not taking into consideration the doubts the defense provided. The DA did not prove his theory beyond a reasonable doubt. The IMPACT will be great if this jury finds him Guilty. It will be a travesty that the jury failed at taking it all in. If they find him Not Guilty then the system worked. This part of the hoax in my opinion is not scripted for the jury. This is a test of all tests and depending on how it turns out there will be lessons taught regardless of which verdict.
Here are the closing arguements [below] and pay attention to the first video when the baliff is talking without the camera showing the court. What would be the purpose of him saying that when the camera was not showing the court room?
If this is a hoax court and not real than that part of what he said should never have been caught. It would not be necessary for a fake court. The conclusion for me is the court and case are real with a sting and obviously fake because of MJ being alive, the false story and evidence planted.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmTE-Q1hdfg&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 3, 2011The part where the judge is explaining the jury instructions and telling the jury about closing arguements is important. The DA and Defense are only providing their theory and over view of the case and should not be taken into consideration of evidence. Based on that, if the DA's case is reviewed based on evidence he submitted to prove the case of Murray's criminal Guilt- he failed. There is to much reasonable doubt to contradict his theories and the evidence.
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Judge Michael Pastor reading jurors instructions
Jurors instructions in written:
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBd_KUsGj0I&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 4, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Prosecution's closing arguments
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApcNg3qNppM[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 3, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Defense's closing arguments.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGlzfEPfhSg&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
Quote
Uploaded by JustMeSTKK on Nov 3, 2011
Conrad Murray Trial - Day 23 - 03.11.2011
Prosecution's rebuttal.
Judge Michael Pastor reading final instructions
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 01:02:18 AM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't think its quite that black and white. I think there's a lot of things that little ol' me cannot fathom about what's possible if you're Michael Jackson.
Yes, I think it's perfectly legal. It's a movie. They do it all the time, it's usually just public knowledge that a movie is being made. I don't believe there has been any illegal activity conducted in the course of this hoax.
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 01:04:02 AM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
How do you know what MJ would or would not do?
Post by: scorpionchik on November 06, 2011, 01:08:03 AM
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 01:12:56 AM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 02:07:12 AM
I think verdict will be read on either the 7th, the 9th, or the 11th :mrgreen:i am always mesmerized by your signatures!! (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)Lovely, cute moving images of Mike(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)
sorry for the OFF-topic!
kissssssssssss (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0019.gif)
Post by: curls on November 06, 2011, 02:19:29 AM
Just something to bare in mind in OUR deliberations!
Post by: jono on November 06, 2011, 03:45:21 AM
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
Question: So are you saying this whole hoax is just for entertainment? Nothing serious behind it at all, such as exposing TPTB etc?
Or are you saying the court is just for entertainment?
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 06, 2011, 04:05:59 AM
bec, scorpion, purelove, trinity, allforloveandbelieve and bethechange - all of your posts are brilliant, even though some opinions conflict.
i especially appreciate the point abt exhibit b potentially being forum.
i guess only time will tell....
this week is going to be huge... will be interesting to see where all of our opinions are at post verdict....
LOVE to you all bearhug
Post by: MJonmind on November 06, 2011, 04:27:13 AM
Bec, I agree with you that a true sting in this hoax is hard to find. The FBI may be into movie production more than we realize. Having a complex plot including enemies, and true-to-life companies/professionals who subtly harm citizens, makes for believable situations and people. Just as we here believe MJ's death and this trial are a hoax and illusion, why do we have trouble with believing that the other major parts of MJ's life in the last 25 years are not also part of this hoax/illusion, no matter how true, emotional and authentic they appear to be. He wanted his life to be the Greatest Show on Earth, and by doing that Heal the World. I believe this BAM will have an impact on the earth, and so in that sense, stings are not really necessary only awareness. If that makes sense.
I think there is a possibility that everyone in the courtroom including the jury are in on the hoax as professionals and actors who have signed confidentiality agreements. This is serious acting and probably the performance of their lifetimes. We've probably only scratched the surface of the wit, plays on words with double hoax meanings, details that will mean more later in hindsight.
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TS
Quote
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!
suspicious//
BeTheChange, I like your post about Exhibit B being us, and the jury reading our forum.
Quote
It could also explain why, throughout the levels, TS kept asking us to come up with 'evidence' that would stand up in a court of law.And Exhibit B could even be B-am itself! Although I think that's unlikely.
If I see these CM and Elf nuts products on the shelf I will buy them just for hoax fun! Who knows?
I found this cute MJ and milk story:
Quote
"So Michael and I went in search of his perfect ranch. We used to sneak away by ourselves to look at ranches and see what was available.Michael Jackson, Miko Brando and I drove up to Santa Barbara, which is about 80 miles from Encino. Bill Bray also came along to drive and to protect us. Michael and Miko had been at the Cal Prep School together as schoolmates since a young age, and Miko was Michael's closest and dearest friend. Just the four of us went, with Miko driving part of the way. (Michael liked to drive his own Mercedes Benz when he could, so he drove part of the way as well).
We passed by a pasture, which was full of baby calves; it was a dairy farm and all the baby calves were nursing from the udders of their mothers. Michael was so thrilled! He was screaming with joy, so happy and laughing. He loved to watch the animals being fed. We stopped and stood on the fence and watched them. The farmer came over, and asked us, "What are you doing here?"
"Well, we're watching the calves taking milk from their mothers." I replied. "Is that okay? Do you mind?"
"No, not at all I was just curious. Nobody ever stops by." The farmer was friendly, and it was apparent that he didn't realize he was talking to Michael Jackson. So Michael started asking him a lot of questions about the gestation period of a calf. How long does it take to have a baby calf? How long before a mother no longer has to feed a baby calf? Michael really had the head of a milk farmer! He was Interested in raising animals. He asked all kinds of questions about their breeds. There were a couple of big black stud bulls there. The milk farm had hundreds of calves all sired by the stud bulls. Michael was fascinated by this and got involved in the discussion of how to create a dairy farm and how milk is pasteurized.
I want you to know that Michael was actually taught then and there by that farmer how to milk a Holstein cow: by aiming two udders into a bucket!
It was a thrill to watch him milk the cow. They tried to teach me, Miko Brando and Michael's major domo Bill Bray how to milk a cow, too, but Michael was the best. He actually managed to fill the bucket to the rim and loved doing it.
Bill Bray kept on rushing us to get back on the road. With a quick aim, Michael squirted cow's milk right into Bill's face. Poor Bill wiped off his wet face with a handkerchief as the farmer roared with laughter and Michael squealed with joy He announced he'd like to move In and become a dairy farmer.
It was really quite funny as the farmer never realized Michael was a celebrity. He was really not In tune with the world of show business, only with his pastures and his cows. Michael took full advantage of it and enjoyed being anonymous. The farmer did ask where we were from so we said Encino in the San Fernando Valley. He did not connect Michael with being the King of Pop in the musical world."http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041 (http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041)
Someone mentioned almond milk as an alternative to cow's milk which isn't meant for humans but for calves. http://www.thegrio.com/health/choosing-alternatives-to-cows-milk.php (http://www.thegrio.com/health/choosing-alternatives-to-cows-milk.php)
And here's the deposition where MJ's talks about the cows on Neverland property. I love watching it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qfBB0Rnjg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qfBB0Rnjg)
Post by: Adi on November 06, 2011, 04:35:49 AM
"Dr Murray" may yet still do something to rock this trial....
From Front:Quote28… 71…80… 37…
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
the "N"ew, the "CHA_GE" --- if it makes you wonder
relapse back, mesh letter to number
won't be long 'til you hear that thunder……………
I think “Exhibit B” literally is Dr Murray! Here is why I think this:
If you have a look at this video from Day 2 of the trial (sorry – I couldn’t find a shorter clip).
Go to around 24:30 onwards when the Defence plays the video of Dr Murray walking along the corridor of UCLA. They state at the beginning that the video is “Defence B”…which I think would also be the same as “Exhibit B” (since Defence give letters to their evidence and Prosecution give numbers to their evidence)
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcfpl3N4P40 [/youtube]
Unfortunately the bit where it actually shows Dr M walking is cut off and is shown in the next part right at the very start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVofTdMvj4 (sorry this YouTube vid won't post here - keeps coming up with invalid YouTube link)
Also TMZ posted the video which was labelled as "Defence B" and they have the name CONRAD in inverted comma’s …..like “CONRAD” with a big red arrow pointing at him walking…..almost trying to point out that "CONRAD" is actually Defence’s Exhibit B!!!
http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_rbia31d8
So what is “CONRAD” going to do that will rock the trial???????
I know this debate has been taking place in another thread regarding the identity of Dr Murray and whether it is really MJ in disguise. I am not saying he is or isn’t but I am thinking Exhibit B is Dr Murray and wonder what he is going to do to “rock that trial”. Also – interesting to re-read this other post by Front which was posted in the thread "Michael's Reasons to hoax his death / Re: If (when) MJ comes back - will we believe its him ?"
From Front:QuotePerhaps he will be standing right in front of us---in the FLESH…………
{Michael, wearing a clown suit--or maybe a Pink Panther disguise--removes his garb}
Fans: {in astonishment and disbelief} Michael, is that really you? NO! It can't be!
Michael: Yes, it's really me! {turns around slowly for all to see} Did you really think I ever left?
Fans: {looking hard with scrutinizing, hoaxy eyes spinning like pinwheels} Nah…it's not him. It's just some dude in an MJ disguise underneath that clown/Pink Panther suit.
{fans turn and walk away, fraught with disappointment}
Michael: {standing alone…shakes his head…and breaks out into a rendition of 99 Bottles Of Beer On The Wall} 99 bottles of Propofol… 99 bottles of Propofol… take 1 down, pass it around--oops! where did it go?….. 98 bottles of Propofol………
Post by: finfin on November 06, 2011, 04:57:37 AM
@TrueNewsZone on Twitter for the photo montage
https://twitter.com/#!/TrueNewsZone
(http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/442420062.jpg)
Post by: Suzy7 on November 06, 2011, 05:47:39 AM
noun
A complicated confidence game planned and executed with great care. (Especially an operation implemented by undercover government officials to apprehend criminals. )
This hoax can be considered a "sting" in and of itself--"a complicated confidence game planned and executed with great care."!!? This can easily be both a hoax/sting court as I stated in a previous post in this thread, it is merely my opinion that the sting is on many facets being: public/media/government/judicial/medical (systems). Corruption is/has been exposed throughout this whole process (for those who pay attention).
Nowhere in any of TS' posts does he mention this being possibly a "medical/judicial sting court" only, that is all being based on ASSumptions. This court can be both hoax and sting as he also never mentioned either/or. Re-read his first post in this thread.
And if there is a sting operation, the 'apprehension of criminals' can be both/either literal or metaphorical. I dont think the gov. would be involved if this was just for entertainment.
Off topic: The milk thing is funny, as Almond Milk is a substitute for milk from an animal, like Soy Beverages used for vegetarians/vegans. I drink those myself as animals milk I find disgusting lol. Cows milk contains viral fragments, blood and pus<--and that is in pasteurized milk, imagine how much is in unpasteurized milk. The companies are allowed to leave in pus, blood ect. by law, the only thing they really do is add pesticides ect. Humans are also the only mammal that drink milk from another species F.Y.I. I dont think there is any significance with the milk though.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 05:53:30 AM
[.....]^^ It DOES sound crazy and far fetched indeed!!
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TSQuoteWell, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!
suspicious//
[...]
It DID sound like that too back in 2009 when the first beLIEvers were trying to prove that Dave Dave was actually Michael!
So no wonder that another crazy disguise like that would be again 'welcome" with negativity and repulsion. loll
I'm not saying I'm sure Murray is Michael in disguise. I'm saying that it could be possible and I beLIEve Michael could be capable of doing anything!! if Dave Dave was the coolest disguise I've ever seen, I'm sure Michael wanted to surprise us and surpass himself with another even more cool disguise!
Why not Murray??
Especially because we know that before 2005 or so , no one has heard of him!
I remember watching hoax-videos in 2009 about Murray and how people tried to look for him on the internet and other medical data bases, they did pretty much extensive research on him and they found nothing! As if he never existed before!!
Then people found out about that "white-Murray", then they found out about another "black -Murray" who is also an actor and resembles a lot to Murray!
Then they found out that Murray's hand looks whiter in some parts, as if he had vitiligo!
Then they found out that Murray dressed during the trial of 2010 exactly like he dressed during MJ's trial in 2005.
I mean come on this guy is really bizarre to say the least!
Even if he exists for real, that wouldn't be impossible for Michael to get disguised like him. Do you remember that at a certain point there were beLIEvers who noticed some height differences between one dr. Murray appearing at a certain time and another dr. Murray that appeared some other time??
I am so sorry I never really took into consideration this possibility^^ of "Murray-the disguise" only up until 1-2 months ago... Otherwise I would have collected pics and links to sustain everything I have written here above^^ Everything is just according to what I can remember about this guy so far...in these 2 hoax-years
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 06, 2011, 05:55:56 AM
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
Thank you RK and Wishingstar (for the record, I think I have now official gone nuts! My padded cell is waiting for me as we speak)
I googled "Elf Nuts" after you posted the link to their FB page RK and found their website.
One thing jumped out at me. I read the "About Us" stories on both Christmas Milk (CM) and Elf Nuts website and thought it was interesting that a portion of their proceeds go to help children in foster care (I remember reading Michael wanted to do a documentary about children raised in foster care) and of course the fact he loved Christmas "all year long" too.
Coincidence...maybe...maybe not... ;)
It's amazing how small the world really is...everything connects to everything in some small way. :mrgreen:
@Mjonmind....thanks for the link, very interesting info about milk alternatives. typing/
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 06:05:10 AM
This is the pic I found about his "vitiligo-hand"?? loll WTF??[.....]^^ It DOES sound crazy and far fetched indeed!!
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TSQuoteWell, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!
suspicious//
[...]
It DID sound like that too back in 2009 when the first beLIEvers were trying to prove that Dave Dave was actually Michael!
So no wonder that another crazy disguise like that would be again 'welcome" with negativity and repulsion. loll
I'm not saying I'm sure Murray is Michael in disguise. I'm saying that it could be possible and I beLIEve Michael could be capable of doing anything!! if Dave Dave was the coolest disguise I've ever seen, I'm sure Michael wanted to surprise us and surpass himself with another even more cool disguise!
Why not Murray??
Especially because we know that before 2005 or so , no one has heard of him!
I remember watching hoax-videos in 2009 about Murray and how people tried to look for him on the internet and other medical data bases, they did pretty much extensive research on him and they found nothing! As if he never existed before!!
Then people found out about that "white-Murray", then they found out about another "black -Murray" who is also an actor and resembles a lot to Murray!
Then they found out that Murray's hand looks whiter in some parts, as if he had vitiligo!
Then they found out that Murray dressed during the trial of 2010 exactly like he dressed during MJ's trial in 2005.
I mean come on this guy is really bizarre to say the least!
Even if he exists for real, that wouldn't be impossible for Michael to get disguised like him. Do you remember that at a certain point there were beLIEvers who noticed some height differences between one dr. Murray appearing at a certain time and another dr. Murray that appeared some other time??
I am so sorry I never really took into consideration this possibility^^ of "Murray-the disguise" only up until 1-2 months ago... Otherwise I would have collected pics and links to sustain everything I have written here above^^ Everything is just according to what I can remember about this guy so far...in these 2 hoax-years
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3323/2n0uio8.jpg)
The original pic:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6214/33d666c283627acf2861df6.jpg)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 06:12:40 AM
Question about the milk....Hi Snoopy...we are probably all taking this too literally but would you believe that Christmas Milk has a sister company call Elf Nuts?
I get the references about the milk...Michael's milk, Christmas milk, midnight milk....milkshake, etc...the thing I'm confused about is the Almond milk.
Kai Chase stated several times in her testimony that she used Almond milk as part of their "healthy eating" plan.
So if Almond milk is not "real" milk, does that mean we can conclude that the propofol was not real propofol? :? or am I taking this too literal?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=167856239958756&set=a.167856153292098.40854.105533612857686&type=3)
Thank you RK and Wishingstar (for the record, I think I have now official gone nuts! My padded cell is waiting for me as we speak)
I googled "Elf Nuts" after you posted the link to their FB page RK and found their website. One thing jumped out at me. I read the "About Us" stories on both Christmas Milk (CM) and Elf Nuts and thought it was interesting that a portion of their proceeds go to help children in foster care (I remember reading Michael wanted to do a documentary about children raised in foster care) and of course he loved Christmas "all year long" too.
It's amazing how small the world really is...everything connects to something in some small way.
Coincidence?....maybe...maybe not?
No THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES HERE ;)!!!!
Quote
I remember reading Michael wanted to do a documentary about children raised in foster care)
Michael Jackson's Unrealized Dream: Career in the Film Industry
July 22, 2009 2:50 PM ET
Michael Jackson had an itch to get into the movie business, Claire Hoffman reports in the new issue of Rolling Stone, on stands today. When Jackson began talking about staging a grand comeback with Randy Phillips, CEO of AEG Live (the company that ended up promoting Jackson's This Is It concerts), the King of Pop wasn't just focused on making an album and hitting the stage: he also wanted to star and direct in big-screen films. Phillips tells RS that Jackson was excited about buying a new house in Las Vegas and adding to his film work, which had included his early starring role in The Wiz, 1997's Ghosts, a short horror film based on a screenplay commissioned from Stephen King, and 2005's Miss Cast Away and the Island Girls, in which Jackson had a brief role. "The house and making movies were huge to him," Phillips said.
The Hollywood Reporter reports that three months before Jackson's June 25th death, the singer had signed on to put up $8 million and co-direct an indie film about foster kids to be titled They Cage the Animals at Night that was based on a book by Jennings Michael Burch. Writer/director Bryan Michael Stoller tells the Reporter Jackson felt close to the story because his own childhood was tumultuous: "Michael told me often he felt like he grew up as an orphan, like a foster kid, because he never was in one home. To him every hotel was like a different foster home. He said he used to sit in the window and see kids playing outside and cry because he couldn't be part of that." :(
Though Jackson insiders deny the singer had an official agreement to work on the film, Stoller says Jackson brought author Burch to Neverland for an interview, which Stoller filmed and is looking to release now. The writer/director adds he and Jackson watched many movies together at Neverland, and To Kill a Mockingbird was the star's favorite.
|
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 06:48:55 AM
[. . . . .](http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5203/27014115857841765789100.jpg)
This is the pic I found about his "vitiligo-hand"?? loll WTF??
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3323/2n0uio8.jpg)
The original pic:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6214/33d666c283627acf2861df6.jpg)
This one circulated a lot on facebook at one point...
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1953/39888147901272945210577.jpg)
I am glad to have finally found these 2 about the "white Murray"
(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/6603/18010617014978514411057.jpg)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6287/23993110052842346289100.jpg)
And these 2 about the other "black Murray", the actor! WTF?? :lol:
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4880/33519147852783733010577.jpg)
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/654/33849107058506025598100.jpg)
QUESTION:
If Murray is not Murray
If Murray is not Michael
If Murray is not white
If Murray is not black
If Murray is not an actor
If Murray is not a doctor
Then WhoTF is Murray ?? lmao :lol: :lol:
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 07:22:14 AM
A reminder about the toys in the courtroom (I'm thinking Hoax Court)^^ :lol: :lol:
(http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/442420062.jpg)
Some other toys in the courtroom...
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6182/toyscourtroom001.jpg)
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8752/toyscourtroom002.jpg)
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6200/toyscourtroom003.jpg)
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1559/toyscourtroom004.jpg)
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 07:54:48 AM
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 07:59:17 AM
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
BEC you are MY HERO !!!!!
His GLOBAL PROJECT will soon be REALIZED,but not until people will WAKE UP from this CON .Remember WE have 4 years to MAKE IT RIGHT,and as TS said 12.12 2012 will not be THE END.Seems to me that people are not paying attention to what is really Important,because as I said before,THE TRIAL is a DIVERSION!!!!!!Murray was never Michael's doctor.Michael's heart was in perfect shape,REMEMBER 8-)????
Quote
After his death, the autopsy report revealed that Michael Jackson had a strong heart and was a "fairly healthy" 50-year-old.
He was someones else doctor.It Is very easy to guess because "Murray" is a HEART DISEASE DOCTOR.Does Heart failure tells you something ;)????
Now let's go BACK to what TS said.All this hoax begun in 2009 with 911 call,right??? Which was also at the BEGINING in David Guest's documentary,LIFE OF AN I-CON .I'm telling you that nobody paid attention to what this documentary was reallly about,because some were to DAM busy bulling David geek/ .Negativity again,and agian,distractions,distractions..... /cook/ .
This is what I replied to Ijustcantstoplovingu today:
Quote
Quote from: Ijustcantstoplovingu on November 05, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
Just a couple of things I noticed whilst watching, David Guest refered to the allagations being a "hoax" umm.?
Did anyone else read the credits, @2.34.37 Dead or Alive Films? Or am I over hoaxing
Very good observation,very,very good,you have MY RESPECT respect/ !!!!
I'm trying to tell THIS to people for more than 1 year now,but no one BELIEVES me.THE 2005 trial was/is the BIGGEST HOAX beside this HOAX we have,for more than 20 years.I had put the PHOTO of the DVD on this forum already but no one even noticed that the picture shows a YOUNG Michael,not the RECENT MICHAEL 8-) .No one even asked why "Why has this come at the END of the MURRAY TRIAL? WHY?? Who manipulated this whole thing 8-) ? "
(http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/image-library/port/376/m/michael-jackson-life-of-an-icon-dvd_09,11.jpg)
NOBODY even asked WHY,another old picture was used for the cover /cook/ .The mask is slowly being removed ;) . BIG clue: The title itself...LIFE of an I-CON.Does anybody here knows what CON means or I have to say this myself???? It seems that people already forget what Latoys said:"READ BETEWN THE LINES",GOD damit albino/ 8-) !!!!!
I really hope that what I juat wrote will be an EYE OPEN for all who reads my posts.I'm only doing this because OF LOVE I feel !!!!!
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 06, 2011, 08:13:50 AM
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
BEC you are MY HERO !!!!!
His GLOBAL PROJECT will soon be REALIZED,but not until people will WAKE UP from this CON .Remember WE have 4 years to MAKE IT RIGHT,and as TS said 12.12 2012 will not be THE END.Seems to me that people are not paying attention to what is really Important,because as I said before,THE TRIAL is a DIVERSION!!!!!!Murray was never Michael's doctor.Michael's heart was in perfect shape,REMEMBER 8-)????QuoteAfter his death, the autopsy report revealed that Michael Jackson had a strong heart and was a "fairly healthy" 50-year-old.
He was someones else doctor.It Is very easy to guess because "Murray" is a HEART DISEASE DOCTOR.Does Heart failure tells you something ;)????
Now let's go BACK to what TS said.All this hoax begun in 2009 with 911 call,right??? Which was also at the BEGINING in David Guest's documentary,LIFE OF AN I-CON .I'm telling you that nobody paid attention to what this documentary was reallly about,because some were to DAM busy bulling David geek/ .Negativity again,and agian,distractions,distractions..... /cook/ .
This is what I replied to Ijustcantstoplovingu today:QuoteQuote from: Ijustcantstoplovingu on November 05, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
Just a couple of things I noticed whilst watching, David Guest refered to the allagations being a "hoax" umm.?
Did anyone else read the credits, @2.34.37 Dead or Alive Films? Or am I over hoaxing
Very good observation,very,very good,you have MY RESPECT respect/ !!!!
I'm trying to tell THIS to people for more than 1 year now,but no one BELIEVES me.THE 2005 trial was/is the BIGGEST HOAX beside this HOAX we have,for more than 20 years.I had put the PHOTO of the DVD on this forum already but no one even noticed that the picture shows a YOUNG Michael,not the RECENT MICHAEL 8-) .No one even asked why "Why has this come at the END of the MURRAY TRIAL? WHY?? Who manipulated this whole thing 8-) ? "
(http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/image-library/port/376/m/michael-jackson-life-of-an-icon-dvd_09,11.jpg)
NOBODY even asked WHY,another old picture was used for the cover /cook/ .The mask is slowly being removed ;) . BIG clue: The title itself...LIFE of an I-CON.Does anybody here knows what CON means or I have to say this myself???? It seems that people already forget what Latoys said:"READ BETEWN THE LINES",GOD damit albino/ 8-) !!!!!
I really hope that what I juat wrote will be an EYE OPEN for all who reads my posts.I'm only doing this because OF LOVE I feel !!!!!
Applehead, so what you are trying to say is that The 2005 trial was a hoax? Michael hoaxed the molestation trial? Yes I too noticed they use always picture of younger Michael, but never connected the dots. What you are saying can be plaussible. The question is why did Michael hoax this 2005 trial? Does not make sense, He destroyed his name and reputation. Sorry if I seem a little dense today.. too tired long days at work. blessings.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 08:26:40 AM
I think the accusations were for real! Someone was really after Michael!
The jackasses Tom Ssssssneddon and Martin BaSHIT were just the 'front-faces" of the conspirators, because there was a conspiracy against Michael!! to get his catalogue and to make him pay for exposing the Illuminati in his videos/lyrics, for trying to make the world a better place while their plan is to ruin this world!
But Michael managed "to outhink them" as he himself said! he somehow found out what was coming for him! He waited and "played their game", he carefully arranged every detail of his case, together with his great team of lawyers and I think he always knew he was gonna win the lawsuit! he knew what absurd, hilarious things they had to present against him in court and he knew what proofs he had to demolish their case! It was not an easy thing to do, that's for sure. But it was a certain victory!
I don't know yet, I couldn't figure it out yet how much of the 2005 Trial was for real and which parts were part of the hoax... Maybe I am wrong , maybe all those other people who think like me are wrong too! But the thing is that there is something "fishy" with that Trial!
And regarding Murray's trial I have NO doubt: it is a HOAX! not a hoax, better said a MOVIE from A to Z! :lol:
Post by: wishingstar on November 06, 2011, 08:55:02 AM
Everyone here knew of his innocence, yet failed to see the magnitude of his greatness (me included). I once wrote here that it must have pained Michael so much see so-called fans actually believe his guilt. To see people that supposedly loved him, turn from him. To see the masses that bought Thriller, be thrilled no more. His TrialS and TribulationS, his painS must have cut like a knife. A death with a heart mystery would be the only way....a broken heart is so symbolic. It was first reported as a heart attack of some degree. Then quickly moved to drugs and hardly looked back to a broken heart.
Applehead, I may not know you, but I feel each word you write. It's almost scary how much I feel them.........even before you write them at times. You all know how much I love looking up at the stars, gazing in sheer wonderment. Never in a million years would I have thought I'd be sitting here, in front of a computer screen gazing with that same wonderment.
I LOVE you all.....you're an amazing group of people, from all over the world. I hope and pray the Michael feels that same wonderment and love I do.
Thank you Applehead........eyes open, heart ready, bring it : )
Love & Blessings
PS> I just read bec's question of why hoax the 2005 trial...whether it was all or part, as SimPattyK said,...
What did the 2005 trial do for the world in general? What did it focus on? Child abuse. The 2005 trial threw open the doors to bring the subject forward. It was right around the time the Catholic Church was facing a round of charges as well (that they wanted to keep secret...hush hush). Michael used the situation to shed light directly on the problem. If Michael went so far as to hoax (all or part) of the trial, he did so to save children. He was a sacrificial lamb of sorts. The largest star in the world, accused of the most heinous crime: hurting a child. He did it for love, the love of children all over the world. I suspect even he was taken aback by how many millions believed the allegations....painful indeed. My heart, along with Miss Katherine's, just bled for him during that time.
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 06, 2011, 09:43:44 AM
No real witnesses, only this crazy bunch of frauds who sold their souls for
cash. If you read transcripts you'll see it. Accusers were more than real,
but they could not win as Michael was completely innocent.
So innocent jurors realized it. God was on his side that time.
It was a grand conspiracy no doubt. Bashir was planted and Michael knew
he is not to be trusted, that's why his [MJ's] crew did a job of filming whatever they could.
Sadly Bashir's sh*tty piece was aired for bigger audience, while Michael
team's work is still barely known :cry: I'm afraid not only TV channels, but
audience was not interested in "debunking Bashir's documentary".. hope I'm
wrong :| I think Michael being Michael overestimated humanity with that one.
The 2005 trial should never be reality :cry: yes, it is touchy subject for me :lol: :|
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on November 06, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
Now….I’m going to stick with what I have thought all along through this trial…..That “Conrad Murray” is “Michael” in disguise!! How more in your face….or being in plain sight is that! I have never put anything past Michael….I feel he is capable of anything and what better way to “rock the trial” then to reveal that Conrad Murray does not even exist…..he was only an illusion! Go ahead …call me crazy…..but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it! lolol/
And…..It has always puzzled me…..that everything being released or written seems to portray Michael in his younger days or as still having black skin. Have we been fooled and/or pranked for the last however many years with all the face changes and him turning white?? Was that all an illusion too??? suspicious//
Anyway…..Thank You again to all who work hard and all my MJ Family….I don’t know what I would have done without you for the past 2+ years…..I feel so blessed to be here among you all and LOVE you with all my heart! bearhug
And to Michael….There are no words to tell you how I feel…..I am Speechless! It amazes me how your LOVE has brought us all together from all over the world…and how you have helped change so many lives here on this forum and across the world. I know for me… my life will never be the same. My faith in God has strengthened and I have more love & compassion in my heart. I am forever grateful to you for all you have/are doing for us and our planet. Thank you Michael…for your unconditional LOVE & for being YOU! GOD BLESS YOU!! I LOVE YOU with all my heart… always & forever!!! mj_bad/ bearhug
LOVE & Blessings to you All!!
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 09:49:03 AM
Common sense tells me that his parents and family love him so much they would willingly and eagerly participate in his global project to help him realize his creative vision.
Question: So are you saying this whole hoax is just for entertainment? Nothing serious behind it at all, such as exposing TPTB etc?
Or are you saying the court is just for entertainment?
I am saying I believe this hoax is an entertainment production; it is an example of a genius reaching the pinnacle of his craft. I believe the purpose and aim of this entertainment production is to correct a lot of the damage of the past and reinstate MJ's rightful position as the Greatest Entertainer in the World.
I also believe that MJ may very well have baited the DA in 2003 to come after him for chi-mo charges. I believe he knew exactly what he was doing when he held that kids hand and talked about sharing his bed on national primetime TV. I believe he allowed himself to be "crucified" on the cross so that, later, he could be resurrected. Legend has it that Jesus did this to allow mankind into heaven; performing the ultimate self sacrifice.
I believe PROOF exists that MJ never touched any kid improperly, ROCK SOLID UNDENIABLE proof that would stand up in a COURT OF LAW, we just haven't seen it yet. It wasn't necessary to use it in 2005... so it's being saved for a later date... or that was the plan all along... for MAXIMUM IMPACT.
I DO NOT BELIEVE that after dealing with one round of chi-mo accusations in 1993 that were very damaging, MJ would allow minor children to spend the night with him alone and unsupervised in his room, AND BOAST ABOUT IT ON NATIONAL PRIME-TIME TV DURING AN INTERVIEW HE ARRANGED, without CCTV systems in place recording everything 24-7, saved and downloaded to a secure harddrive as the ultimate proof of innocence.
So IF there's a sting operation, it's against the media, the public, and his so-called fans who condemned him based on ASSumptions and gossip and hearsay because THAT'S the proof that I see that is undeniable throughout this entire incredible, amazing adventure.
So if you want to say that's all for entertainment, fine, but the man's craft is entertainment. He's the Greatest Entertainer in the World. As a painter uses a brush to create his vision, MJ uses this illusion to achieve his which is at least in part, an attempt to save us from ourselves.
Post by: wishingstar on November 06, 2011, 10:20:20 AM
/bravo/
@Aidan_81...perhaps "touchy"was way the wrong word......I didn't even realize I wrote that, I apologize :oops:
I should have said a very important subject or very sensitive subject...something else. Sorry for the wrong wording.........LOVE
Blessings
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 10:33:06 AM
As about the verdict, if the numbers are so important, why wouldn't we have a verdict tomorrow, it's 7/11 anyway.
........................
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 10:38:08 AM
Or maybe not.... God knows what's in his head.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 10:44:10 AM
@Gina: I'm like you, I missed the trial and the end of it. Didn't have time to watch it yet, not even the recordings that are already on youtube.
But I think I'm waiting for my holiday to fully 'connect" myself to it and have the satisfaction of watching a good exciting, thrilling movie from start to end! loll and not just "episodes" lmao :lol:
Below are two links that I found these days from William Wagner' channel, I shared them on my FB page. But I as I said I haven't watched them yet, I don't want to spoil my pleasure by watching the end of the movie before seeing it all! loll :lol:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxwgn9JnihU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGvV84gMGiQ&feature=share[/youtube]
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 10:48:53 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 10:52:27 AM
I think there's no good evidence to actually prove he gave Michael the overdose.
But I might be wrong because I haven't watched the closing arguments.
Post by: scorpionchik on November 06, 2011, 11:01:42 AM
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
Post by: MissG on November 06, 2011, 11:03:11 AM
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
Now that you mention the star Michael is wearing, just a side note. The "al-Hizb rub" symbol is present in the Unicode alphabet as two overlapping squares with a central moon---> ۞
Apparently it is a representation of paradise, which according to Islamic belief is surrounded by eight mountains.
It is also used in Qurán to indicate the end of a chapter.
That, is interesting...
But could also be a Tartessian star or the northen star. Need a closer look.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 11:11:27 AM
Post by: MissG on November 06, 2011, 11:16:57 AM
-"An identical glyph serves as the emblem of the Melchizedek priesthood of the Church of Latter-Day Saints, who view it as a continuation of the priesthood of biblical patriarchs. The emblem is patterned after a similar glyph found in a medieval depiction of Melchizedek, but is of relatively recent usage in Mormonism. The star in this context would most likely have been a symbol of renewal and rebirth through baptism."-
Post by: MissG on November 06, 2011, 11:18:57 AM
The charms he is wearing are beyond a fashion statement. It´s way deeper and symbolic.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 11:28:54 AM
[...]I hope these pics are of greater help... as you can see he wore different neck-lace pendants , if I may call them so!
But could also be a Tartessian star or the northern star. Need a closer look.
He also wore a lot of different 'chest-pendants" or insignia! I hope I use the right term. [I will soon make a montage on them]
I wonder what they all meant! I'm sure Michael didn't wear them just for fashion's sake! They mean/meant something to him!!
@MissG thanks for all the addition info! very interesting stuff!! that I've never known of!
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9366/mj2005trial002.jpg)
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8313/mj2005trial001.jpg)
Post by: MissG on November 06, 2011, 11:46:44 AM
To start with (I was on my way to log out) top right, on the jacket, it´s clearly a batch that belongs to an Order, but need to see the symbol inside the circle to determinate to wich order it belongs.
If it is a star, there are speciphic rules to whom the star is given, and this it´s even more interesting since it´s only given to certain nobles (knights), head of the state, or royalty related. The ones given the star become the supervisors or "head" of certain charities (hospital related usually) and performs duties.
All depends which symbol is inside the "batch star", but Gold/white/blue with the star inside would be the "Order of the (Northen) Star" , i.e
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 11:47:35 AM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 11:48:03 AM
[...]
He also wore a lot of different 'chest-pendants" or insignia! I hope I use the right term. [I will soon make a montage on them]
I wonder what they all meant! I'm sure Michael didn't wear them just for fashion's sake! They mean/meant something to him!!
[...]
Here's the montage:
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9838/mj2005trial003.jpg)
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 11:55:15 AM
Wow...........Now 2005 trial was hoax :shock:
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
Ps. scorpionchick, your post was reported by a 3rd party as uncalled for and rude. I agree. Have more respect for other members and their opinions. You have yet to put forth a coherent theory with sound, logical supporting evidence, so you don't have a leg to stand on when it come to critiquing others.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 11:59:23 AM
[...] top right, on the jacket, it´s clearly a batch that belongs to an Order, but need to see the symbol inside the circle to determinate to which order it belongs.WOOW! now that's really interesting!!
If it is a star, there are specific rules to whom the star is given, and this it´s even more interesting since it´s only given to certain nobles (knights), head of the state, or royalty related. The ones given the star become the supervisors or "head" of certain charities (hospital related usually) and performs duties.
All depends which symbol is inside the "batch star", but Gold/white/blue with the star inside would be the "Order of the (Northen) Star" , i.e
OMG what was Michael up to then?? Who was supporting him? what is the real message behind all these symbols he was wearing???
OMG!! If we could decipher them all, maybe we could get the message!!!
Here's a larger pic of that badge and neck-lace "star" - @MissG and thank again for all this info! ;)
Sorry...it can't get any clearer than this:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8364/mj2005trial004.jpg)
Post by: wishingstar on November 06, 2011, 12:00:52 PM
Wow...........Now 2005 trial was hoax :shock:
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
Believe me when I say I am only speculating everything....I have a very difficult time piecing this together. A very difficult time.
I am in no way meaning a disrespect to Mr.M or anyone who worked endlessly to make sure Michael was not found guilty. The only thing I have ever truly believed, is that Michael would slit his own wrists before hurting a child ......even more so than this hoax. How anyone could ever accuse him, or believe that of him are the delusional ones for sure...anyone would agree. From where I stand at the moment, anything is possible with Michael...anything. People have said he is Jesus.....literally. I don't mean offense, and I am not trying to be childlike. Scorpion, I love you.....nothing but respect, please know that.
Blessings
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 12:11:32 PM
[..]
Sorry...it can't get any clearer than this:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8364/mj2005trial004.jpg)
With this same badge ^^ the pic is most probably taken the same day!
He seems to have worn an outfit only once! he never wore them more than twice ...
So it would be interesting not only to decipher all those symbols, badges, insignia, neck-laces that he was wearing, but also to be able to find out which ones he wore in which trial-days!! What was the significance that he attached to them in relation to that specific trial-day!?
I don't know for you guys! But to me this pic speaks volumes!!
They all look like pranksters to me! That really looks like "the last laugh" they're having... as the proverb says... "He who laughs last, laughs best!" :lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9364/16562710150136760478465.jpg)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 12:25:01 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 12:47:12 PM
Post by: Jacaranda on November 06, 2011, 12:49:27 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 01:00:33 PM
All of those emblems / insignias he's wearing appear to be the insignas of english army regiments. Some i recognise for sure.Thanks a lot!
So this takes my thoughts back to all those military clothes!!
He was calling for his Army of LOVE !?
And why the insignia of the English army and not the American or any other army?
Was this already an early reference to LONDON?? The O2? and "remember ...remember the 5th of November"?
JackieBlue64 just published another video, related to the verdict...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSMtALMcNA&feature=share[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSMtALMcNA&feature=share[/youtube]
Post by: scorpionchik on November 06, 2011, 01:18:34 PM
Wow...........Now 2005 trial was hoax :shock:
Guys your dellusional ASSumptions are gone too far. I don't think Tom Mesereau would be appreciated.
I would like us be more "investigators" rather than childlike chatters, just in case for guests to take us more seriously.
Believe me when I say I am only speculating everything....I have a very difficult time piecing this together. A very difficult time.
I am in no way meaning a disrespect to Mr.M or anyone who worked endlessly to make sure Michael was not found guilty. The only thing I have ever truly believed, is that Michael would slit his own wrists before hurting a child ......even more so than this hoax. How anyone could ever accuse him, or believe that of him are the delusional ones for sure...anyone would agree. From where I stand at the moment, anything is possible with Michael...anything. People have said he is Jesus.....literally. I don't mean offense, and I am not trying to be childlike. Scorpion, I love you.....nothing but respect, please know that.
Blessings
I LOVE EVERYONE HERE NO MATTER HOW MY POSTS SOUND AND IF SOME TAKE IT PERSONAL. I DON'T MAKE FUN OF ANYONE EITHER EVEN IF IT MAY LOOK LIKE THAT OR MEMBER WANTS TO SEE LIKE THAT. I FEEL MYSELF AS MICHAEL......... MISUNDERSTOOD. mj_bad/ BUT THAT'S OK, I'LL BE FINE AS MICHAEL IS.
WISHINGSTAR, WHAT YOU EXPLAIN ABOUT 2005 CASE IS CLEARLY DESCRIBES A CONSPIRACY AGAINST MJ THAT TOOK PLACE, NOT HOAX. THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.
beerchug
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 01:58:43 PM
I think that the 2005 Trial was at least partially hoaxed!
I think the accusations were for real! Someone was really after Michael!
The jackasses Tom Ssssssneddon and Martin BaSHIT were just the 'front-faces" of the conspirators, because there was a conspiracy against Michael!! to get his catalogue and to make him pay for exposing the Illuminati in his videos/lyrics, for trying to make the world a better place while their plan is to ruin this world!
But Michael managed "to outhink them" as he himself said! he somehow found out what was coming for him! He waited and "played their game", he carefully arranged every detail of his case, together with his great team of lawyers and I think he always knew he was gonna win the lawsuit! he knew what absurd, hilarious things they had to present against him in court and he knew what proofs he had to demolish their case! It was not an easy thing to do, that's for sure. But it was a certain victory!
I don't know yet, I couldn't figure it out yet how much of the 2005 Trial was for real and which parts were part of the hoax... Maybe I am wrong , maybe all those other people who think like me are wrong too! But the thing is that there is something "fishy" with that Trial!
And regarding Murray's trial I have NO doubt: it is a HOAX! not a hoax, better said a MOVIE from A to Z! :lol:
SimPattyK I'm sorry to tell you , but THIS is not a the kind of MOVIE you think it is.IT IS much,much more than that,IT IS DIVINITY in MOTION.Do you reallly think Michael risked his "CAREER" and REPUTATION for just ONE MOVIE?????? Not that he really cares about the TITLE KING OF POP,lol lolol/ ,because is just an illusion.Remember that even his own father said in 2009 that "WE JUST LOST THE BIGGEST STAR IN THE WORLD",he didn't said his name in that phrase.
Joe Jackson BET Awards 2009 CNN Interview - arrogant and self serving
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27665VPRmQ[/youtube]
Then the reporter asked him why he decided to show up there in that NIGHT.Then Joseph said he came for HIS SON MICHAEL!!!!! Yes indeed he came to SUPPORT HIS SON,"MICHAEL",SIMPLY "MICHAEL".
TS why don't you come out for GOD sake,why don't you come out to tell us all THE TRUTH???? It would be to EASY for us ,no??? What is the REASON for all this TWISTs and TURNs,BACKs and FRONTs,and CONTRADICTIONs????
911 = emergency, critical. Yet the irony throughout all of this has been the total lack of any sense of urgency ;) when clearly it's warranted. I just don't get it. "We have 4 years to get it right or else it's irreversible" but this entire ordeal has crept along like a snail on it's way to it's own funeral :cry:. Full of puzzles, riddles, mystery clues, detours, distractions. If it's all so urgent and critical then why so prolonged?
Maybe because it is not the RIGHT time???? Then when is THE RIGHT TIME???? 12:21-2012 perhaps 8-)????
In one of your UPDATE you said that these 2 are the MAIN REASON for this hoax .
Quote
4-25. The End of the World Is Good News!
So this whole hoax was kicked off with a 911 call, which represents the NWO (911 terrorism); and it was made at 12:21, which represents the end of the world (12-21-2012). These are two of the main reasons for the hoax. And yes, these are the two main subjects covered in TIAI Revealed {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts)}.
But many are having difficulty accepting these two reasons, especially the end of the world. However, whether or not you believe the end is near, you can’t change the fact that it is part of the hoax and MJ’s message—which can be seen very clearly from the call at 12:21, as well as “Jackson” and the other parallels in the 2012 movie {http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aznBAuj4Vw}.
If we understood that the end of the world is a good thing, it might be easier to accept. “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away [end of the world] … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain …” (Revelation 21:1,4).
The end of the world is only bad news, for those who are not ready. If you don’t want the end of the world to come, maybe you need to take a look at the man in the mirror. God has promised to His faithful: “A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.” (Psalm 91:7).
When Michael said he is not GOD,but GOD-like he was DAM SERIOUS about that isn't it?????
That's why he was always around children,that's why he always said that HE LOVES children??? That's why he alwyas talked about his LOST CHILDWOOD,isn't it??? Because children are PURE,just like THE EARTH was in THE BEGINING???? Because CHILDREN don't know the differrence betewn RIGHT and WRONG and the differrence betwen GOOD or BAD,and they have NO EGO!!!!! A child is born absolutely fresh and young - no past, no ego. That's why children are so beautiful. They don't have any past. They are young and fresh. They cannot say I, because from where will they bring the I? The I has to develop gradually. They will get educated, they will get awards, punishments, they will be appreciated, condemned - then the I will gather.
A child is beautiful because the ego is not there. An old man becomes ugly, not because of old age, but because of too much past, too much of the ego. An old man can also become again beautiful, even more beautiful than a child, if he can drop the ego.
He is re-writeing HIStory true BIBLE ,isn'it???? His bodyguards already told us,that he reads HIS BIBLE EVERY DAY 8-)!!!! Now I understand why all the paralels with JESUS,all the betrayals from his friends and brothers,why the Jackson family had bought 12 burial spots at Forest Lawn Glendale, Los Angeles,why he "had needle marks ",OMGGGGGGGGG!!!!!
TS you have to COME BACK ,please say SOMETHING because I know you have many things to say RIGHT now 8-)!!!!!
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 02:31:09 PM
:shock:I think that the 2005 Trial was at least partially hoaxed!
I think the accusations were for real! Someone was really after Michael!
The jackasses Tom Ssssssneddon and Martin BaSHIT were just the 'front-faces" of the conspirators, because there was a conspiracy against Michael!! to get his catalogue and to make him pay for exposing the Illuminati in his videos/lyrics, for trying to make the world a better place while their plan is to ruin this world!
But Michael managed "to outhink them" as he himself said! he somehow found out what was coming for him! He waited and "played their game", he carefully arranged every detail of his case, together with his great team of lawyers and I think he always knew he was gonna win the lawsuit! he knew what absurd, hilarious things they had to present against him in court and he knew what proofs he had to demolish their case! It was not an easy thing to do, that's for sure. But it was a certain victory!
I don't know yet, I couldn't figure it out yet how much of the 2005 Trial was for real and which parts were part of the hoax... Maybe I am wrong , maybe all those other people who think like me are wrong too! But the thing is that there is something "fishy" with that Trial!
And regarding Murray's trial I have NO doubt: it is a HOAX! not a hoax, better said a MOVIE from A to Z! :lol:
SimPattyK I'm sorry to tell you , but THIS is not a the kind of MOVIE you think it is.
IT IS much,much more than that, IT IS DIVINITY in MOTION.
Do you reallly think Michael risked his "CAREER" and REPUTATION for just ONE MOVIE ??????
Sorry, but where did you see me writing this ?????? :roll:
loll I never wrote any of these things ^^ Neither that the hoax was ALL a movie nor that it was ONLY a movie. I was referring to Murray's trial - which has all the characteristics of a MOVIE from A to Z. Meaning that from the very beginning up until now (almost the end) we've been receiving clues and signs that is not for real, that it was only a movie or a hoax, (or whatever... which way you like to call it).
Then about this whole giant hoax being "much much more than that" as you say. Yes, I know it means so much more. I also said it in the 1st paragraph quoted by you ^^ where I mention the Illuminati and all that... which is only one other aspect involved...
Since you also mentioned "divinity in motion"... I don't know if you've been following the topic "New Jesus - mark my words" where starting with page no. 4, we've been discussing all the other divine/spiritual aspects of this hoax, but I limited my comment that you quoted here above^^ to just the TRIAL being a hoax/movie, otherwise it would have been pointless and OFF-topic to touch the other deeper meanings of IT all, here, in this topic.
I don't know if it was me that didn't express myself very clearly in the message that you quoted OR if it was you who didn't read/understand it properly.
In time, I've come to the conclusion that it's better to express myself in my photo-montages...It saves me from giving long explanations like this ^^ as most times, photos speak million!! and to be frank I don't like to talk that much either!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 02:46:43 PM
I am not sure I understand all the evidence.
Correct me if I am wrong: Murray never admitted he gave MJ that amount of propofol that killed Michael. Also, can someone tell me if the prosecution brought undeniable evidence that Murray gave MJ that amount of propofol? What if someone else gave him propofol?
I think this case is very unclear and the jury has a very difficult job.
If I were in the jury, I would want to see proof that Murray injected Michael that amount of propofol that killed him. Was that proof presented? Maybe I missed it but I didn't see it.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 02:48:30 PM
Regarding Jesus paralels,believe me I know about that topic,OH GOD,how could I NOT :cry:?????? Actually I read all your posts,and let me tell you ,that you are WONDERFUL!!!
You helped me very much in my investigastion,THANK YOU :)!!!!
Now I want to challenge you and ask you,that if you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT?????? Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX???? For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this 8-)???? LOVE you!!!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 06, 2011, 03:57:30 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 04:06:09 PM
Simpa I was reffering to THE MOVIE aspect that you pointed out,nothing more.The rest have nothing to do with you,I alologise if you understood something else,it was not my intention to offend you :(!!!
Regarding Jesus paralels,believe me I know about that topic,OH GOD,how could I NOT :cry:?????? Actually I read all your posts,and let me tell you ,that you are WONDERFUL!!!
You helped me very much in my investigastion,THANK YOU :)!!!!
Now I want to challenge you and ask you,that if you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT?????? Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX???? For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this 8-)???? LOVE you!!!
@Applehead: thanks for clarifying your post because I really didn't understand what happened to you to change your attitude towards me like that. You have a way of telling things that makes it... how shall I put it? a way that makes it... very categorical for the reader... You see when I see many punctuation marks, capital letters, major type font , in bold, I take it as a screaming-tone! In fact that is the message in "Internet language"! Some people are still not aware of this.... Then I sensed bit of irony in your message... especially with that question that bothered me. Anyway... we shouldn't waste our time with misunderstandings like these, which are inevitable in written communication! especially because we cannot hear our voice-tones, nor see our gestures or facial-expressions when we say certain things that in written form may seem ambiguous or mean.
You asked me again, some questions, as "a challenge", you say loll So I don't know whether you already have an answer/opinion of yourself and you just ask me just to see how I think OR whether you ask me because you really want to find out the answer to those questions...
One way to find an answer to any of your questions is the topic that I'm doing called "It's only a movie".
All those photos, videos, links and explanations are already a big source of information regarding this subject that I am afraid is not really ON-topic here. But since you asked here and since this trial is also made to look like it's a movie, I think it's OK to answer here.
I don't know , I never know if I am correct in my thinking regarding this hoax, because the "rabbit hole" goes so deep and there's always something more that you're not aware of, so you cannot give a "solution" or a correct answer unless you have all the data!! it's like trying to solve a math problem without having all the data before! the puzzle is still "in the making", we don't have all the pieces yet! so we cannot see clearly the Bigger picture!
- If you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT??????
- Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX????
- For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this 8-)????
I always put in front the possibility that I might be wrong on everything or at least on some parts of my deductions, suppositions, speculations! Nobody , I mean nobody! but Michael really knows the answer to all these questions. Therefore I think it's not right to even ask these questions, neither to wait for an answer from someone and to believe in it, nor to contradict with people around these questions or their answers to them. Because no one can be 100% right until Michael comes out and explains it all...
Nevertheless, because you insist on this movie-subject, I accept your "challenge" loll and I hope I can give some reasonable answers, even if maybe they are not the correct ones.
So here are the reasons I could think of until now of why Michael decided to make a movie out of this hoax...
1. VENDETTA - Revenge on the mass-media and all his enemies that worked behind his back and tried to destroy him, his image, his family and steal his catalog. Michael wants to show them that he also worked behind their back and pulled this prank for them! and at the same time he exposes them in front of the big public, thus he also punishes them all!
2. HUMANITY & PLANET protection - "Make that change"; "heal the World", "Save the Kids", "We've got 4 years to make it right or else it's irreversible"
3. PASSION - Movies, watching, making, producing movies was his ultimate dream, he also said in that Geraldo interview back in 2002. The movie industry was like an unexplored field for him... he wants to take it to another level of artistic creation.
4. AMBITION - The WILL of PERFECTION, of surpassing not only others before him, but also HIMself!! Michael is never content with himself, the title of the King of Pop is already achieved and never surpassed, he won dozens and dozens of awards, he won some other dozens of Guinness book titles, he beat all the music records of selling albums in History! What else could he do to obtain artistic satisfaction???
He has studied the greats from this Movies & entertainment business and now he wants to create something BIGGER, something never achieved before! A reality movie! that is not just a Movie, but a way of achieving many goals at a time: revenge, uplift his career, surpass himself, change humanity, expose the Illuminati, and all the aspects of this hoax that we've been investigating since June 25th, 2009.
5. Promote his FAMILY: ever since this hoax, his family members have been more popular than ever. It's somehow a Come Back of the Jackson5 + parents & sisters + children. All reunited and more loving than ever! Each one of them talented actors/artists, unique, charming and unique in their own way!
6. HELP the other artists, Destroy the Music Industry MAFIA.
7. ELVIS - What a good opportunity for them both this hoax is!! So that they can demonstrate to the entire world HOW the tabloid press, the media attention and the celebrity disadvantages can determine a BIG artist to fake his death in order to obtain the "retirement" from the entertainment industry, to obtain that deserved peace and tranquil life after they have served their public with love and devotion! otherwise it seems to be impossible! other than "playing dead", they can't obtain all that! especially if they received death-threats and they were both followed by "money sharks" who were after their catalogs and fortunes! How crazy this world is!! This has got to change once they come back!! I really hope we will witness a double-BAM!
8. The JUSTICE & HEALTH systems that literally suck pretty much in every corner of this world - think the trial-movie is made to expose all of this !!
These are the major reasons I think...
What do you think @AppleHead? What are your answers to your own questions? I challenge you back now lol
Post by: SimPattyK on November 06, 2011, 04:24:29 PM
PS: I added 2 more reasons, to my kilometer list, by the way! :lol: Now it's 8 of them! what an Elvis-number! :lol: And guess what? this is my 555th post! lmao :lol: :lol: I thik I'm going crazy... I 'm going to bed before I say anything stupid!
have a nice week you all! bearhug
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 06, 2011, 05:08:39 PM
The world is changing and so are we...it is time for humanity to live in harmony again. LOVE is what really matters in this. We need to LOVE more in order to truly find the "Truth". You need to BELIEVE and have 100% Faith, in who Michael is and what his purpose here is...he KNOWS who is understanding, and who isn't yet. I promise you that everything is happening exactly as it should.
BELIEVING in something isn't truly BELIEVING, until you BELIEVE 100% You can't see the Miracle unfolding before your eyes, until you take a leap of FAITH, and take a look back at all of Michael's work and you hear the voice of GOD shining through.
We are in a time of "Change" and it is up to us to contribute to that change, in every way we can. We all need to stop living in Fear, and start living in LOVE...We need to understand who and what our purpose here on Earth is, but in order to do that, you need to "Re-Think EVERYTHING!!
"The Truth" is coming and "The Signs" are everywhere for those who choose to see!
GOD...LOVE...LIGHT...STARS...and....CHANGE...is the common thread throughout Michael's work, so this is what I researched about and my "Life" will never be the same!! Everybody is searching for answers and I know that it must be very frustrating, but don't stop searching for TRUTH! I already have all the answers I need. I am so happy that I was able to find "My" Truth. I have already had my "BAM" from Michael and now I patiently "wait", and I make a conscious effort to make sure I am living my life in Harmony and LOVE!
This subject matter is of course just my opinion. Please try to open your minds to all possibilities, otherwise when BAMSDAY does happen, you may not be totally prepared for what is to unfold!! lol
Just know that Michael "Sees" and "Feels" everything...BE LOVE...BE GOD"S GLOW...CHANGE YOUR LIFE AND "LIVE" LOVE! THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT YOU "ARE" CHANGING THE WORLD.
We truly are connected and we must reunite in the name of GOD and LOVE!
I LOVE YOU ALL!!!
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_world%27s_a_stage
Post by: fordtocarr on November 06, 2011, 05:10:57 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 06, 2011, 05:10:58 PM
Just wanted to say THIS: TS' absence is not quite encouraging.......I hope she/he doesn't think now that Murray is guilty. With all that evidence, one can never know....
@gina. maybe TS is incredibly busy with hoax / court or related duties as everything is coming to a cruscendo, and therefore he doesnt have time to phone home :lol:
TS has commented in the past, (or perhaps it was front, i forget) that he does read all the comments.
TS PHONE HOME......
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/crunkhitz/et-finger.jpg)
Post by: PureLove on November 06, 2011, 05:33:31 PM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I'll try to answer. Because the court, judge, and jury are all real, If there is a sting, that is of Michael's sting against....we will find out later whom....since this is a take over. Whether Murray found guilty or not, Michael's take over will be after BAM, and I still think Murray is not in hoax; whether he is convicted or not, it would not be a justice for MJ not hoaxwise nor murder attemptwise, and Michael's vendetta still coming up. Michael would not design court to entertain his fans and family who is every day in the court getting exhausted watching live MJ "entertaining movie production". This hoax is BIGGER than just pioneering live movie with real judges and prosecutors, etc.. I sometimes guys really go like :shock: reading how you make a clawn out of Michael.
The judge knows and the court is fake IMO. I also do not believe Michael did the fake court to entertain people. It has a bigger purpose. Murray is definitely in on the hoax. You should have been believing that Michael was a drug addict to think that Murray is guilty. And your way of thinking shocks me Scorpion.
Post by: PureLove on November 06, 2011, 05:48:11 PM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't think its quite that black and white. I think there's a lot of things that little ol' me cannot fathom about what's possible if you're Michael Jackson.
Yes, I think it's perfectly legal. It's a movie. They do it all the time, it's usually just public knowledge that a movie is being made. I don't believe there has been any illegal activity conducted in the course of this hoax.
This is not an ordinary movie. This is something that has never ever done before. And faking your death is not legal as we know. Movie or not. And especially if you're thinking about a return. I also do not believe Michael would BAM and say, "Hey, it was just a movie!" He would lose his reputation and all the non-believer fans would hate him if he doesn't give a good reason for faking his death. A couple of good friends in high authorities do not solve everything. Finally they need to give an explanation to wherever they work, FBI or the Government. So, the sting is the perfect scenario for this hoax. Otherwise, all the fake documents, fake courts would put Michael behind bars. And saying it was just a movie wouldn't fix everything and save him.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 06, 2011, 05:51:13 PM
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Post by: PureLove on November 06, 2011, 06:05:16 PM
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Are you referring to my post Ford? Because I didn't write anything like the court is real.
Post by: Okay Annie on November 06, 2011, 06:20:12 PM
@Wishingstar. I love the way your over-hoaxed mind works. Christmas milk is a new company whose advertising slogan is' the elves favourite drink' [Are smurfs elves?]It also brings to mind the christmas decorations that were still up at Carolwood. The home page for Christmas Milk has a touching story of how an adopted boy was looking for the taste of Christmas with his forever family and then discovers Christmas Milk. Then the site goes on to say never give up on your dreams no matter how big or small they are and finishes off with the statement that a percentage of profits go to children in orphanage care.I heard Christmas Milk and my twisted my picked up on the Milk part and automaticly thought " Propofol" LOL!!!!
Very Interesting. http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6 (http://christmasmilk.com/christmas-milk/christmas-milk-egg-nog-32-oz-bottles-quarts-case-of-6)
Or maybe I am just delirious by now from lack of sleep especially since the trial has been on. (http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/so-sleepy.gif)
Dr. Murray told the police that he tried numerous methods to put Michael to sleep on the morning of June 25, 2009 but nothing seemed to work. After 10 a.m., Jackson told Murray, “Please give me some milk so I can sleep because I know that’s all that works for me.” Milk is Michael Jackson’s nickname for the creamy white Propofol.
a
I am aware that Michael suppositly called Propofol Milk that why I made thr comment jokinly that hearing reading about Christmas "Milk" made me thing of Propofol.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 06, 2011, 06:23:07 PM
I don't believe there is a Sting at all. I think the Sting story line is just that, a story. I think it's purpose is to hoax the hoaxers. The Sting theory parallels Moonwalker and the Smooth Criminal story which is exactly why it was perpetuated in the first place.
I think the 333 pages in 7 FBI files were arranged by a key person at that key position in the FBI. I think MJ has a lot of powerful friends who were more then happy to assist him in his gigantic entertainment venture.
I also think the death hoax is just the final curtain in this movie that MJ has been starring in for 25 years.
I think this whole thing is a live action movie designed to entertain, delight, illuminate, and amaze.
If there is no sting, then there is no FBI. How did Michael arrange all the fake courts, judge and the documents? Would it be legal and would he be able to come back? I don't think so. I still go with the sting where the FBI is involved. That's the only way to explain all fake hearings, trial and documents.
I don't think its quite that black and white. I think there's a lot of things that little ol' me cannot fathom about what's possible if you're Michael Jackson.
Yes, I think it's perfectly legal. It's a movie. They do it all the time, it's usually just public knowledge that a movie is being made. I don't believe there has been any illegal activity conducted in the course of this hoax.
This is not an ordinary movie. This is something that has never ever done before. And faking your death is not legal as we know. Movie or not. And especially if you're thinking about a return. I also do not believe Michael would BAM and say, "Hey, it was just a movie!" He would lose his reputation and all the non-believer fans would hate him if he doesn't give a good reason for faking his death. A couple of good friends in high authorities do not solve everything. Finally they need to give an explanation to wherever they work, FBI or the Government. So, the sting is the perfect scenario for this hoax. Otherwise, all the fake documents, fake courts would put Michael behind bars. And saying it was just a movie wouldn't fix everything and save him.
Very well said.. I always wanted to say about this movie business, that it is impossible that Michael would have faked his death for.. Something bigger that is for sure. He probably will do this into a movie in the near future but not for now. I never said it before, being afraid that people would jump me for stating my opinion.. It is very frequent in this forum.. We need to respect eachother's opinion with love.. blessings.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on November 06, 2011, 06:57:45 PM
In order to change the world we need a new consciousness including "A Love Revolution". This is why we need the army of love.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 06, 2011, 07:09:28 PM
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Are you referring to my post Ford? Because I didn't write anything like the court is real.
Nope darlin'...there was a post in there..or two..
But, I'm referring to the one saying this is a real court...whoever said it is. I simply disagree.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a sting/hoax court, but NOT real. And I do believe there will be something from Michael in the way of using it for money..as in movie mentions or something...or maybe just "Murray's" documentary.
Post by: PureLove on November 06, 2011, 07:13:11 PM
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Are you referring to my post Ford? Because I didn't write anything like the court is real.
Nope darlin'...there was a post in there..or two..
But, I'm referring to the one saying this is a real court...whoever said it is. I simply disagree.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a sting/hoax court, but NOT real. And I do believe there will be something from Michael in the way of using it for money..as in movie mentions or something...or maybe just "Murray's" documentary.
Thank you for clarifying it sweets. :mrgreen: I was surprised to see you wrote " I'm referring to the post above this one" and it was my post above yours. Just wanted to be sure that you weren't referring to my post. And I agree with you about the court issue. ;)
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 06, 2011, 07:27:19 PM
MJJ4ever77 I am thinking the same way as you. Michael has been preparing us for the coming golden age, new age of aquarius. It is supposed to be a new age of peace and spirituality and consciousness. It's all about living in a world of love and peace. It's supposed to be the next step in evolution or evolving. It's complicated but research ascension,DNA activation, christ conciousness, light codes,light bodies, angels, astrology, quantum physics, mayan calendar. MJJ look at what I wrote under the topic New-Jesus. It seems that we are thinking alike.
In order to change the world we need a new consciousness including "A Love Revolution". This is why we need the army of love.
Bless you!! I have been researching everything that you have listed. What a coincidence...NOT!!!
Nothing else makes sense to me! even family members have said things that just relate to this happening...the thing that I rely on the most is my "Gut Feeling" and it tells me This Is It! and LOVE is the answer to everything!!
I will go look at your other post. Always sending you LOVE!...Keep posting!
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 08:29:02 PM
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
Fordtocarr ofcourse this is not a REAL TRIAL,never was!!!
Beside THE CLOWNS you forget someONE else,my friend:" THE FANS"
The same "FANS" were present at 2005 trail ,outside the COURT and it seems that noONE even noticed,lol!!!!! I will give you ONE CLUE:The girl with SKIN problems/HAIR on the LEGS :shock:.In the first video she appears starting 2:17 and in the second she is in the begining ;) !!! I promise you there is MORE,MUCH MORE,in fact there are many people from Larry Nimmer doc.that appeard in 2005 trial also.I know it's hard to accept THE TRUTH,but remember THE DIRECTOR shows only what HE WANTS,and in this case ,in 2003-2004-2005 he only showed us THE DRAMA SIDE of the story.Everything that he was done is done WITH LOVE,please remember!!!!! Human mind is very powerful thing and he knew that in THE END the TRUTH will prevail!!!!
Jake Byrd at the Courthouse for Michael Jackson
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8CzsOpNzY&feature=related[/youtube]
Conrad Murray Trial - Sept. 8, 2011
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztO817TtuAc&feature=channel_video_title
[/youtube]
Both TRIALS are a CIRCUS and both have a PURPOSE,a bigger one,but this is not the MOMENT to disscuss that.We are ALL HEROES,in our own way,and this time IS OUR TIME TO SHINE 8-)!!!!I LOVE you!!!!
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 08:46:28 PM
But then I also believe much of MJ's life for the past 25 years was an illusion surrounding a persona designed for publicity.
You can say I think It's *just* a movie, but in my opinion there is nothing *just* about It. I can only call It a "movie" because that's the closest medium that currently exists to It. It's a lengthy piece of public performance art designed to entertain, educate, illuminate, shock, and surprise. It's a magic show, a movie, a stage play, a public service message, an interactive internet-based ARG... It's a whole lot of things.
But, in my opinion, what It is not, is a sting on some illusive and unidentifiable "bad guys"... cuz that is the part of the story line that was designed to hoax US. Well that and the doubles theory. Yeah I fell for that one too.
Because stop for just one second and think... what makes you think you're so special that you didn't fall for some aspect of the hoax story line yourself? All these people firmly believe MJ was a drug addict who was emaciated like a cancer patient and allowed some piss ant AEG company pull to wool over his eyes and work him to death to the tune of *surprise* 50 shows. That's what they believe, maybe not all of it, but all non-believers believe some aspect of those fabrications.
So what makes anyone of us here think that we are above being fooled by this man?
I'm almost certain that when MJ bam's, that at least one part of the truth, that will come out, will be a total shock to me that I will never see coming. Some of you might snicker and think to yourself "yeah, like it all being a movie, bec? Ha", but as sure of anything in this hoax, I'm nearly certain that the serious focus is on removing the chi-mo stigma from MJ's name, and precious little else. Otherwise, he is performing his craft: an illusion.
Michael Jackson is almost certainly fooling each and every one of us right now, so pick your poison. That's why It's all for love, right? To the non-believer fans, It's all for love; he's not being cruel, he's trying to save you. To the media, It's all for love; It's not fraud, It's to teach you a valuable lesson going forward about looking for the truth before reporting the story. To the general public, It's all for love; It's to enlighten you as to how easy it is to "create" a reality and have it reported on the news. To the hoaxers, It's all for love; It's all to help you reach a higher level of awareness by teaching you... (to be determined).
I don't think we know as much as we think. TS was very clear, he will support false theories. Why should this have started and stopped with the murder theory? He never said it would. He said was very plainly and simply just that: he will support false theories. That makes anything he says up for speculation regarding its legitimacy.
Front said to not take ANYONE's words or statements as definitive proof of ANYTHING.
I think we are being fooled. I think lots more people then we think are in on It. I think It's quite cleared legally. I don't think for one second that MJ would NOT have his lawyers review and ensure everything was by the book before doing it.
Faking your death is NOT against the law UNLESS you are escaping incarceration (ie a sentence handed down by a court or impending verdict), you or your beneficiaries collect on death benefits, or you are escaping debt. Michael Jackson is none of these things. This death hoax is NOT illegal. This was clarified in early 2009 so let's please not backtrack on established knowledge.
In any case, I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that we have discovered anything that is not part of the story line. He allowed us to know he's not dead. He allowed us to know it is a hoax. That's enough truth for now, seems. The rest of what we think we know is all story line.
Yes I realize my post is a giant metaphorical contradiction. Deep.
Post by: PureLove on November 06, 2011, 08:59:39 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 09:05:14 PM
I'm the one who thinks It's all a movie. Direct all aghast comments re: this theory to me.
But then I also believe much of MJ's life for the past 25 years was an illusion surrounding a persona designed for publicity.
You can say I think It's *just* a movie, but in my opinion there is nothing *just* about It. I can only call It a "movie" because that's the closest medium that currently exists to It. It's a lengthy piece of public performance art designed to entertain, educate, illuminate, shock, and surprise. It's a magic show, a movie, a stage play, a public service message, an interactive internet-based ARG... It's a whole lot of things.
But, in my opinion, what It is not, is a sting on some illusive and unidentifiable "bad guys"... cuz that is the part of the story line that was designed to hoax US. Well that and the doubles theory. Yeah I fell for that one too.
Because stop for just one second and think... what makes you think you're so special that you didn't fall for some aspect of the hoax story line yourself? All these people firmly believe MJ was a drug addict who was emaciated like a cancer patient and allowed some piss ant AEG company pull to wool over his eyes and work him to death to the tune of *surprise* 50 shows. That's what they believe, maybe not all of it, but all non-believers believe some aspect of those fabrications.
So what makes anyone of us here think that we are above being fooled by this man?
I'm almost certain that when MJ bam's, that at least one part of the truth, that will come out, will be a total shock to me that I will never see coming. Some of you might snicker and think to yourself "yeah, like it all being a movie, bec? Ha", but as sure of anything in this hoax, I'm nearly certain that the serious focus is on removing the chi-mo stigma from MJ's name, and precious little else. Otherwise, he is performing his craft: an illusion.
Michael Jackson is almost certainly fooling each and every one of us right now, so pick your poison. That's why It's all for love, right? To the non-believer fans, It's all for love; he's not being cruel, he's trying to save you. To the media, It's all for love; It's not fraud, It's to teach you a valuable lesson going forward about looking for the truth before reporting the story. To the general public, It's all for love; It's to enlighten you as to how easy it is to "create" a reality and have it reported on the news. To the hoaxers, It's all for love; It's all to help you reach a higher level of awareness by teaching you... (to be determined).
I don't think we know as much as we think. TS was very clear, he will support false theories. Why should this have started and stopped with the murder theory? He never said it would. He said was very plainly and simply just that: he will support false theories. That makes anything he says up for speculation regarding its legitimacy.
Front said to not take ANYONE's words or statements as definitive proof of ANYTHING.
I think we are being fooled. I think lots more people then we think are in on It. I think It's quite cleared legally. I don't think for one second that MJ would NOT have his lawyers review and ensure everything was by the book before doing it.
Faking your death is NOT against the law UNLESS you are escaping incarceration (ie a sentence handed down by a court or impending verdict), you or your beneficiaries collect on death benefits, or you are escaping debt. Michael Jackson is none of these things. This death hoax is NOT illegal. This was clarified in early 2009 so let's please not backtrack on established knowledge.
In any case, I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that we have discovered anything that is not part of the story line. He allowed us to know he's not dead. He allowed us to know it is a hoax. That's enough truth for now, seems. The rest of what we think we know is all story line.
Yes I realize my post is a giant metaphorical contradiction. Deep.
Bec wow you amaze me,and you have respect/ !!!!
Please allow me to give a PROPER name for this hoax,ok 8-)?? It is not JUST a MOVIE,it is A WAKE UP CALL= 911 call,THE LAST one 8-)!!!
The purpose is END OF FEAR(that keeps us all enslave) ,which will OCCURE at 12:21.2012!!!!
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 09:06:17 PM
You modified after I posted so, additionally: I see your point as well, I just think the revenge will come by virtue of MJ's success.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 06, 2011, 09:26:09 PM
I especially like the parts where you talk about US being fooled....especially into thinking we KNOW what's going on behind the scenes. I completely agree that we've been allowed to see and hear what HE wants us to and nothing more. And I also think that if we ever got too close to a certain truth before the 'right time'....we were quickly detoured or distracted down some other path (TS or Front may have done this but there's also been some 'interesting' members from time to time that may fit the bill).
Bottom line is that NONE of us know the whole 'truth'...and can't even confirm the 'truths' we think we know lol. Of course, certain theories make more 'sense' than others when lined up against everything we've learned over the past 2+ years...and I'm sure that we've stumbled upon some 'truths'. But although we may have 'pieces' of the puzzle...no one has yet to figure it all out...and maybe we're not meant to.
I, for one, want to be surprised...who doesn't love surprises? geek/ The only 'truth' I REALLY wanted and needed to know was whether or not Mike was, in fact, alive. Once I decided he was (based on everything I researched)...the rest has just been icing on the cake.
I learned a very long time ago that the only thing to expect from Mike is the unexpected....and to cherish the experiences he chooses to share.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 06, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 09:34:22 PM
Bec I love you and I get your point but I totally disagree with you. I do believe the 2005 trial was real. The conspiracy against Michael is real. Therefore this is his vengeance, take over. I think too different than you do, so we should agree to disagree my friend. :D
PureLove I have a quesion for you regarding VENGEANCE word.
Do you really think that Michael would do all this for REVENGE????? Revenge on WHO exactly,if you are kind to tell me albino/ ???
Remember he said many times that he is very religious and that he BELIEVES IN GOD,and even in his DARKEST HOUR ,during 2005 TRIAL he said TO GERALDO HE IS MORE THAN FINE,actually he was HAVING ALOT OF FUN :lol:!!!!
These are Michael's words not mine ;).
(http://www.mjfriendship.de/en/images/stories/m2_17.jpg)
Geraldo: How you doing, man?
Michael: How you doing?
Geraldo: Good to see you. You get to smile anymore?
Michael: Of course, I smile a lot.
Geraldo: You smile when you’re in a recording studio like this one, doing music?
Michael: Of course, I love music.
Geraldo: Is it nice to get back to the music?
Michael: It’s fantastic. Because ahhh… It’s my life. That’s what I do.
Geraldo: You’ve been so distracted, you know, you want to talk about how you’re feeling?
Michael: I’m doing fine Geraldo, how are you?
Geraldo: Despite whatever else goes on in the world, you’re doing ok?
Michael: I’m doing very well, thank you.
Geraldo: You know, it was wonderful, seeing you with the children. That I think, is the real Michael Jackson that has not been seen… you with your own children, one in diapers the other two toddlers… I don’t know how you manage without a nanny.
Michael: Well, I enjoy taking care of my children myself it’s… it’s fun that’s why I had them so I could take care of them and it’s just great relief for me you know it’s a pleasure it keeps me happy and laughing and you know, they’re wonderful sweet innocent children.
Geraldo: I saw you as kind of the arbitrator between the ‘Nickelodeon’ and the ‘Disney Channel’ there. You got some really difficult problems to solve there. But you have such a- a kind of a normal life there. It’s sweet to see.
Michael: Thank you. They bring me that.
Geraldo: Tell me, tell me what the children mean to you, your own children.
Michael: They mean, it’s hard to put it into words because they mean everything. The way you would explain how your children make you feel… They’re the world for me, I wake up and I’m ready for the day because of them. I get them breakfast, I change diapers, if they want to read, we do a lot of reading, we play hide and seek, we play blind fold and have a wonderful time with it.
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on November 06, 2011, 09:44:32 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 09:45:34 PM
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinons, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Mjj4ever777 you already KNOW my answer and that one is LOVE.Michael would never REVENGE on anyone,because this would be against HIS BELIEFS.In fact he doesn't need to REVENGE on anyone ,lol lolol/ ,it is ABSURD, :lol: to even say that word when you talk about Michael!!!! YOU know he is SIMPLY MICHAEL,the ONE and ONLY ADORABLE MICHAEL :lol:!!!
Post by: RK on November 06, 2011, 09:47:44 PM
@ Applehead....LMAO at those last videos. I'm beginning to think I would have gained more understanding from watching the outside of the courthouse than the actual trial. LMAO again just thinking about it.
Post by: Adi on November 06, 2011, 09:48:32 PM
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uHpK5lk5C0M [/youtube]
Post by: applehead250609 on November 06, 2011, 09:53:43 PM
In 'you are not alone' Jermaine's book, he started a chapter by saying (in CAPS) 'Michael received a death threat'
Ya sure ,from BUBBLE,because he forget to give his BANANAS :lol: lolol/!!!!!!
Distractions,distractions,twists and turns,backs and fronts albino/ 8-)!!!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 06, 2011, 10:04:30 PM
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinons, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Mjj4ever777 you already KNOW my answer and that one is LOVE.Michael would never REVENGE on anyone,because this would be against HIS BELIEFS.In fact he doesn't need to REVENGE on anyone ,lol lolol/ ,it is ABSURD, :lol: to even say that word when you talk about Michael!!!! YOU know he is SIMPLY MICHAEL,the ONE and ONLY ADORABLE MICHAEL :lol:!!!
lolol/ mj_bad/...I LOVE YOU Applhead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bec on November 06, 2011, 10:06:59 PM
Since we are being hypothetical, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. Make that 1 cent. I don't have much. When it all comes out I believe we will all find out we have been royally had. At least to some degree everyone of us...believers and non believers. And I have loved every minute of it , be it through tears of empathy and identification with and for Michael, to the educational aspects of the hoax... which will never be a joke, because they are life skills to take with us for ever. And even the fun aspects of allowing ourselves to goof off, laugh at ourselves and with each other and be childlike. I can't shake the image of the kids w-a-y back in the '09 days when they went to the library. I think Prince held up his' choose your own adventure' book and I believe each of us have... to a degree, chosen where this adventure led us by continually challenging ourselves with what we are willing to embrace and believe as the truth. However we may have individually interpreted the clues, leads, and psychological triggers the master illusionist has fed us, it looks to me like each of us chose where we allowed ourselves to venture, partly by our own personal bent, as well as past life experiences that impacted us as truth pre death hoax, and our own individual core value systems. In truth, there has never been anything on this level done in an ARG before, and if we step back and observe ourselves, there are great life lessons here. We can come to know ourselves in a greater measure by evaluating how open we are and have been to suggestion. I am in no way negating the experiences of others here, simply just throwing into the mix that we are a great big soup mix of world wide people coming into this death hoax from different past backgrounds, and as such, each of our individual experiences will have the carry over of these elements. So, who has the absolute truth to all of this? Nobody but MJ and those who are in on it. And it seems good advice to me to enjoy it cause it is one hell of a ride. okay...I'm done
@ Applehead....LMAO at those last videos. I'm beginning to think I would have gained more understanding from watching the outside of the courthouse than the actual trial. LMAO again just thinking about it.
Incredible editorial, RK. I love the way you put experiences into words.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 06, 2011, 10:11:30 PM
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinons, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Great questions! It's difficult to know who the REAL Michael Jackson is because we've only always seen and heard what he has wanted us to. But based on how he lived his life...things which we can point to like his charity work, his speeches, his lyrics, his messages, etc etc...it's clear, to me anyway, that a BIG part of who he is, and always has been, is 'love'....pure 'love', not the superficial-type 'love' that is rampant in our societies today.
Because I don't want to presume to know every aspect of who he 'really' is...I'm not sure whether or not 'payback' is on his list of 'reasons' for this hoax. But the very word 'payback' is interpretive...'payback' can be intentional (i.e. someone sets out to get revenge for wrongs done against them)...but it could also be the by-product of justice (without an intentional revenge motive).
Mike often talked about being Jesus-like...and yes, Jesus was all about love and forgiveness...but neither mean that 'justice' and/or 'judgement' from up above will spare 'wrong-doers' from all consequence(s).
I do believe that Mike is doing all this for love...but I also believe that IF whatever happens in this hoax, in full or in part, results in the 'payback' of some individuals...it will be a by-product of 'justice' (and long overdue).
Love sometimes has to include 'tough love' in order to teach the lesson...God, himself, is notorious for this.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 06, 2011, 10:34:43 PM
Since we are being hypothetical, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. Make that 1 cent. I don't have much. When it all comes out I believe we will all find out we have been royally had. At least to some degree everyone of us...believers and non believers. And I have loved every minute of it , be it through tears of empathy and identification with and for Michael, to the educational aspects of the hoax... which will never be a joke, because they are life skills to take with us for ever. And even the fun aspects of allowing ourselves to goof off, laugh at ourselves and with each other and be childlike. I can't shake the image of the kids w-a-y back in the '09 days when they went to the library. I think Prince held up his' choose your own adventure' book and I believe each of us have... to a degree, chosen where this adventure led us by continually challenging ourselves with what we are willing to embrace and believe as the truth. However we may have individually interpreted the clues, leads, and psychological triggers the master illusionist has fed us, it looks to me like each of us chose where we allowed ourselves to venture, partly by our own personal bent, as well as past life experiences that impacted us as truth pre death hoax, and our own individual core value systems. In truth, there has never been anything on this level done in an ARG before, and if we step back and observe ourselves, there are great life lessons here. We can come to know ourselves in a greater measure by evaluating how open we are and have been to suggestion. I am in no way negating the experiences of others here, simply just throwing into the mix that we are a great big soup mix of world wide people coming into this death hoax from different past backgrounds, and as such, each of our individual experiences will have the carry over of these elements. So, who has the absolute truth to all of this? Nobody but MJ and those who are in on it. And it seems good advice to me to enjoy it cause it is one hell of a ride. okay...I'm done
@ Applehead....LMAO at those last videos. I'm beginning to think I would have gained more understanding from watching the outside of the courthouse than the actual trial. LMAO again just thinking about it.
That is the Beauty of this whole thing...It is up to "Us" each as individuals to "make a choice" and then stick to it...BELIEVE in it wholeheartedly, and when you do, you create your own "reality"...This is a "Global" wake up call! For me, I truly believe in LOVE and believe this is all about an "awakening of our consciousness". others firmly believe it is just for "Entertainment purposes"...who is right and who is wrong? Is there any right or wrong? So many ways to look at things...I will never waiver on my belief that this is all for LOVE though...I can "Feel" the LOVE in Michael...that cannot be an "Faked".
I Love and respect all of your journeys and I LOVE all of you!!
Post by: RK on November 06, 2011, 10:52:54 PM
Quote
I Love and respect all of your journeys and I LOVE all of you!!bearhug Right back at ya mjj4ever777
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 06, 2011, 10:59:25 PM
The think that kills ME about this trial, and I'm referring to the post above this one, is if this IS a real trial, it would be absolutely absurd! Where are there trials for anyone, let alone a trial that is of interest to the entire world, and there are JACKOlanterns in court, being moved around? Where are there people in court coughing BULLSHIT? Or cellphones not allowed, but they go off in court. Or ... CLOWNS outside the courthouse where family members can see them at the death trial of their family member?? Where is the trial taped and used in replay during final remarks? Where can a witness cause court to cancel to receive an award??? (who do we know loves awards?)
These things are all clues. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that court is REAL. Even the commentators keep saying it is NOT like any court they've ever seen, and they were former attorneys and judges and prosecutors! They say it's all rehearsed, and it has the feeling of a circus. COME ON, would it really be so if Michael really died??? Would there be no tears when the family came out after seeing Michael dead?? NO. I do not believe that it is real.
Whatever reasons court is for is yet to be seen, but I do not believe it to be real. There are not CLUES in a real court.
@ford, perfect post. i agree with you %100
to know this is fake you just need to ask yourself how many times has this courtcase made you laugh in the past 6 weeks.. me personally? i have lost count...
as for other courtcases... lets just say that i have never laughed whilst watching a courtcase...
fake fake fake.
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 12:09:41 AM
1- Can Michael get revenge?
YES absolutely! Especially after all the things he had to go through during those molestation trial, I would be surprised if he didn't want to get his revenge or take over. You can pick the one you like. Michael is all about LOVE but this doesn't mean that he doesn't have any enemies and he doesn't want them to pay back all the things they had done to him.
2- Who are THEY?
Tom Sneddon is one of them. illuminati, NWO whatever you call them. Evil people.
3- What's the purpose of the hoax?
A real life movie aka Thriller II, a take over, ARG (Alternate Reality Game), Wake up call to the humanity and warning to them about the evil side and how they're destroying the world and humanity, a show, an illusion, showing the world who really Michael Jackson is ... (these are what I remember for now)
4- Do you believe the 2005 trial was real?
Yes absolutely.
5- Do you believe half of Michael's life is a lie, an illusion to create the biggest show in the world?
Absolutely NO. He can be the biggest entertainer in the world but if you believe the man is all about love, and he loves his fans, you shouldn't think that he would be deceiving his fans for the past 25 years.
6- Do you believe he hoaxed the hoaxers by including the illuminati and thread issues and FBI/Sting into the hoax?
No, I don't believe that. As I explained before I accept the existence of illuminati and I know what they are capable of and what they did to Michael. So, the FBI involvement and the Sting is the best explanation for this hoax.
7- Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson???
It doesn't need to be one of them. When he could kill several birds with one single stone, why would he fake his death for one single purpose? He did it for all of the things like payback, love, entertainment, humanity, and the planet. I do believe that we should think bigger when it comes to Michael.
Post by: skyways on November 07, 2011, 12:39:12 AM
Quote from: fordtocarr link=topic=20587.
[size=10ptFordtocarr ofcourse this is not a REAL TRIAL,never was!!!
Beside THE CLOWNS you forget someONE else,my friend:" THE FANS"
The same "FANS" were present at 2005 trail ,outside the COURT and it seems that noONE even noticed,lol!!!!! I will give you ONE CLUE:The girl with SKIN problems/HAIR on the LEGS :shock:.In the first video she appears starting 2:17 and in the second she is in the begining ;) !!! I promise you there is MORE,MUCH MORE,in fact there are many people from Larry Nimmer doc.that appeard in 2005 trial also.I know it's hard to accept THE TRUTH,but remember THE DIRECTOR shows only what HE WANTS,and in this case ,in 2003-2004-2005 he only showed us THE DRAMA SIDE of the story.Everything that he was done is done WITH LOVE,please remember!!!!! Human mind is very powerful thing and he knew that in THE END the TRUTH will prevail!!!![/size]
Jake Byrd at the Courthouse for Michael Jackson
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8CzsOpNzY&feature=related[/youtube]
Conrad Murray Trial - Sept. 8, 2011
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztO817TtuAc&feature=channel_video_title
[/youtube]
Both TRIALS are a CIRCUS and both have a PURPOSE,a bigger one,but this is not the MOMENT to disscuss that.We are ALL HEROES,in our own way,and this time IS OUR TIME TO SHINE 8-)!!!!I LOVE you!!!!
Dear fellows!
Have to reassure all of you, that people who was also refereed here as a "fans" from 2005 trial is NOT staged. I meet some of them personally during that unbearable period as well as Larry Nimmer, director of that documentary and find kind of insulting that theme of staged MJ trial keeps come back to the hoax web.
Please, stay REASONABLE for sake of the Man, who also reading that forum and do Not mix Revenge with real accusations.
In fact, the girl with problematic skin conditions is such a sweetwheart and I admire her courage to accept who she is beyond point of her first side appearance.
Keep the faith and be blessed - indeed, sanity is only key to all that mess and Message.
L.O.V.E.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 01:10:56 AM
Just wanted to say THIS: TS' absence is not quite encouraging.......I hope she/he doesn't think now that Murray is guilty. With all that evidence, one can never know....
@gina. maybe TS is incredibly busy with hoax / court or related duties as everything is coming to a cruscendo, and therefore he doesnt have time to phone home :lol:
TS has commented in the past, (or perhaps it was front, i forget) that he does read all the comments.
TS PHONE HOME......
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/crunkhitz/et-finger.jpg)
Yes there is somebody here who does read all the comments suspicious// suspicious// suspicious//.
The good thing is time is flowing slowly to the end of all these and sooner or later we'll learn the truth.
We are very stubborn people here, we don't give up so easy, we want to believe because - God knows why - we are devoted to Michael. Our minds are open to all possibilities...even the most unthinkable ones.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 01:17:26 AM
When Michael was holding that boy close to him was it to start the ball rolling or was it to reaffirm his belief that there's nothing wrong in allowing a child to sleep in his bed? Was it a trick or was it a defiance of the "ethical" rules largely accepted by society?
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 02:00:46 AM
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinions, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Great questions! It's difficult to know who the REAL Michael Jackson is because we've only always seen and heard what he has wanted us to. But based on how he lived his life...things which we can point to like his charity work, his speeches, his lyrics, his messages, etc etc...it's clear, to me anyway, that a BIG part of who he is, and always has been, is 'love'....pure 'love', not the superficial-type 'love' that is rampant in our societies today.
Because I don't want to presume to know every aspect of who he 'really' is...I'm not sure whether or not 'payback' is on his list of 'reasons' for this hoax. But the very word 'payback' is interpretive...'payback' can be intentional (i.e. someone sets out to get revenge for wrongs done against them)...but it could also be the by-product of justice (without an intentional revenge motive).
Mike often talked about being Jesus-like...and yes, Jesus was all about love and forgiveness...but neither mean that 'justice' and/or 'judgement' from up above will spare 'wrong-doers' from all consequence(s).
I do believe that Mike is doing all this for love...but I also believe that IF whatever happens in this hoax, in full or in part, results in the 'payback' of some individuals...it will be a by-product of 'justice' (and long overdue).
Love sometimes has to include 'tough love' in order to teach the lesson...God, himself, is notorious for this.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Well said Be The Change..well said, and I agree with you! This is a BIG Life lesson for humanity as a whole.
The one thing I have learned in life is that You and only you, are responsible for your own happiness! We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and what we put out into the universe. You can't lie to yourself...you can try, but the reality is you can't! If you aren't happy in your life, that is a sign that you need to "make a change", no one can do that for us. To attain Happiness and LOVE means consciously working on yourself, and for most, that is just too hard. It is a sad time when it is easier to live in fear and darkness, then it is to live in happiness and LOVE. It is even sadder when people think that they don't have a choice because they have been led so far down the "proverbial rabbit hole, that they can't even see a glimmer of "LIGHT" at the end of the tunnel... I will continue to try and inspire, wherever I can on my path.
Thanks to this eye opening journey from Michael, I have NO DOUBT that the Ultimate goal here is LOVE...it is who Michael IS, it is what I am and it is what everyone of us has the capability to be...Pure, unselfish Love....It really is a beautiful thing, just sad at what had to transpire to get the world to "take a look in the mirror and make that change"! Take back control of your life, just say NO, and practice living and just being LOVE...I have never been happier in my life and it is because I LIVE Love, knowing that I am LOVED in return...no amount of money can buy that!
God Bless you and know that I truly LOVE and appreciate you and all you do here on this forum...If we can get people to even read our posts on LOVE, then that is a start! I Love reading your posts, you are an inspiration, so thank you!!
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 07, 2011, 02:09:38 AM
I don't know if it's true, but William Wagener said;
Quote
JURY reached a Verdict, Friday Nov. 4th, but won't announce until Monday 7th, in Conrad Murray InVoluntary Manslaughter case. Here is part of Defense Atty. Chernoff, and Atty. for the Prosecutor, David WALGREN's last words to Jury.
This is written in the description box in one of his youtube vids, see below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGvV84gMGiQ
I thought that the jury were still deliberating on Friday and it was said that if they did reach a verdict, it would be announced on the same day, even if it was later in the day...so is he confused?
Post by: hopi on November 07, 2011, 02:15:13 AM
Since we are being hypothetical, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. Make that 1 cent. I don't have much. When it all comes out I believe we will all find out we have been royally had. At least to some degree everyone of us...believers and non believers. And I have loved every minute of it , be it through tears of empathy and identification with and for Michael, to the educational aspects of the hoax... which will never be a joke, because they are life skills to take with us for ever. And even the fun aspects of allowing ourselves to goof off, laugh at ourselves and with each other and be childlike. I can't shake the image of the kids w-a-y back in the '09 days when they went to the library. I think Prince held up his' choose your own adventure' book and I believe each of us have... to a degree, chosen where this adventure led us by continually challenging ourselves with what we are willing to embrace and believe as the truth. However we may have individually interpreted the clues, leads, and psychological triggers the master illusionist has fed us, it looks to me like each of us chose where we allowed ourselves to venture, partly by our own personal bent, as well as past life experiences that impacted us as truth pre death hoax, and our own individual core value systems. In truth, there has never been anything on this level done in an ARG before, and if we step back and observe ourselves, there are great life lessons here. We can come to know ourselves in a greater measure by evaluating how open we are and have been to suggestion. I am in no way negating the experiences of others here, simply just throwing into the mix that we are a great big soup mix of world wide people coming into this death hoax from different past backgrounds, and as such, each of our individual experiences will have the carry over of these elements. So, who has the absolute truth to all of this? Nobody but MJ and those who are in on it. And it seems good advice to me to enjoy it cause it is one hell of a ride. okay...I'm done
...you said it all... that's just my cent to this subject.
Even though we are all different, we stick together and hopefully continue to respect and care for every other oppinion and individual...
Love to everyone on here... bearhug
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 02:18:38 AM
Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Nobody knows who is the REAL Michael Jackson.
An incredible musician - he definitely is.
A beautiful man - he is.
A narcissist - I believe he is.
A "circus"/ "drama" man - he is.
A very sensual man - he is.
A believer in God - he is.
A child - he is.
A saint - he is.
A faker - he is.
A manipulator - he is.
An angel - he is.
A "devil" - he is.
Michael Jackson is everything you want him to be.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 02:27:28 AM
Fordtocarr, the trial is apart of a much more intricate plan. Much like the movie would be. I dont believe it's just a movie, but something greater involving many facets.
Taking into consideration everything we should have learned throughout this journey; the idea(s) of a secret society, actually many, is far from an illusion. To believe that the NWO/Illuminati is merely an illusion is to ignore the realities of this world. You must also then believe the children dying of preventable causes (on purpose), the 'natural' disasters, 'terrorist' attacks, inequality and fraudulent banking systems are also an 'illusion' to scare people. You would also be ignoring what TS has been here to try and teach people. He provided links of even presidents confirming the existence of such things. If you dont believe evil people or forces are implementing an agenda, you have much re-reading of info to do. But that again is my opinion and you are allowed to believe in whatever you wish.
I stated in another thread the idea that everything is as said by some, to create confusion and we might not know everything, is yet another contradiction of the purpose of what were told this hoax was for. What are we learning if everything is a smokescreen and there are no answers to anything? That if we come to a truth we should be weary of it and ANYthing just in case. What is the point in this hoax at all, if we are being taught to be confused and overly skeptical of everything?
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 02:30:04 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 02:54:38 AM
Post by: curls on November 07, 2011, 04:14:33 AM
Most recently, David Gest's film is thoroughly detailed about MJ's early life and career, yet only briefly mentions Off the Wall and Thriller .... and then nothing at all after that career-wise - only allegations, surgeries, addictions. Either that's all Gest saw as important to portray (which would be incredibly sad, and doing MJ a huge disservice), or MJ himself had a hand in this film and what HE wanted to portray.
I could almost think the whole second half of his life has been an act or illusion, and the extent to which this might have been made visible (or not) to the world, I can hardly begin to contemplate. Let's say some of the more outlandish theories that have been put forward here over the past 2 years do not seem quite so impossible to me now!
All I know is I know nothing! If MJ wanted attention, for whatever reason, and cunningly set out to get it by carefully creating mystery, intrigue, curiosity, then he succeeded - big time! With me at least!
With all our differing opinions, with even TS saying he would support 'false' theories, with everything I've read and seen and heard in the past 2 years - all I can say for certain is that I can believe (as in really know), nothing, except for what is in my heart, my soul, my true self - and amid all the uncertainty and confusion of the world, that is the most important thing of all, and that may ultimately be the whole purpose of the hoax if it's ever finally revealed.
Trying to redeem this post and get it back on topic :oops: I'm eagerly awaiting the verdict in the trial! Which ever way it goes will allow for interesting developments, though I favour 'not guilty', as it will create more shock waves - 'guilty' seems too predictable!
Michael, if you're looking in, just how long do you intend to keep this going? What more delights have you got up your sleeve? You've got my attention now, and I've learnt to be patient, but I want you back, and I can't spend the next 25 years sat on my backside at my computer! Just saying! :lol:
Post by: jono on November 07, 2011, 04:15:29 AM
I got to be honest with you. Some of you are freaking me out! lolol/ Michael being the “second coming of Jesus”, the “Archangle Michael” and stuff? Naah, that is a little bit too farfetched to me! Of course I recognize that there is a spiritual side to all of this as well, and that is the red line I am talking about. Here I am going to quote an old STUDY post from way back:
“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world. Search for clues about the truth in the Bible, just as you have done with this hoax investigation. Pay attention to the details, and follow "<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9%3A6&version=NIV">The Prince of Peace</a>" (Isaiah 9:6).”
And I believe it is imperative to know and understand who "The Prince of Peace" is, and also to know Him..
All for LOVE
Ps. I respect all of your opinions and I just love it that we are such an amazing mix of different people from all over the world with different backgrounds and experiences. Ds. Michael, look what you have done! /bravo/ respect/
bearhug
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 04:36:15 AM
Quote
@Applehead: thanks for clarifying your post because I really didn't understand what happened to you to change your attitude towards me like that. You have a way of telling things that makes it... how shall I put it? a way that makes it... very categorical for the reader... You see when I see many punctuation marks, capital letters, major type font , in bold, I take it as a screaming-tone! In fact that is the message in "Internet language"! Some people are still not aware of this.... Then I sensed bit of irony in your message... especially with that question that bothered me. Anyway... we shouldn't waste our time with misunderstandings like these, which are inevitable in written communication! especially because we cannot hear our voice-tones, nor see our gestures or facial-expressions when we say certain things that in written form may seem ambiguous or mean.
You asked me again, some questions, as "a challenge", you say loll So I don't know whether you already have an answer/opinion of yourself and you just ask me just to see how I think OR whether you ask me because you really want to find out the answer to those questions...
One way to find an answer to any of your questions is the topic that I'm doing called "It's only a movie".
All those photos, videos, links and explanations are already a big source of information regarding this subject that I am afraid is not really ON-topic here. But since you asked here and since this trial is also made to look like it's a movie, I think it's OK to answer here.
I don't know , I never know if I am correct in my thinking regarding this hoax, because the "rabbit hole" goes so deep and there's always something more that you're not aware of, so you cannot give a "solution" or a correct answer unless you have all the data!! it's like trying to solve a math problem without having all the data before! the puzzle is still "in the making", we don't have all the pieces yet! so we cannot see clearly the Bigger picture!
Quote from: applehead250609 on Today at 04:48:30 AM
- If you think this IS A MOVIE,what IT WOULD BE THE REASON,for IT??????
- Why Michael DID all THIS??? What is THE PURPOSE OF THIS HOAX????
- For REVENGE,FOR MONEY,FOR REGAIN his KING OF POP title,or is there a BIGGER PURPOSE for this ????
I always put in front the possibility that I might be wrong on everything or at least on some parts of my deductions, suppositions, speculations! Nobody , I mean nobody! but Michael really knows the answer to all these questions. Therefore I think it's not right to even ask these questions, neither to wait for an answer from someone and to believe in it, nor to contradict with people around these questions or their answers to them. Because no one can be 100% right until Michael comes out and explains it all...
Nevertheless, because you insist on this movie-subject, I accept your "challenge" loll and I hope I can give some reasonable answers, even if maybe they are not the correct ones.
So here are the reasons I could think of until now of why Michael decided to make a movie out of this hoax...
1. VENDETTA - Revenge on the mass-media and all his enemies that worked behind his back and tried to destroy him, his image, his family and steal his catalog. Michael wants to show them that he also worked behind their back and pulled this prank for them! and at the same time he exposes them in front of the big public, thus he also punishes them all!
2. HUMANITY & PLANET protection - "Make that change"; "heal the World", "Save the Kids", "We've got 4 years to make it right or else it's irreversible"
3. PASSION - Movies, watching, making, producing movies was his ultimate dream, he also said in that Geraldo interview back in 2002. The movie industry was like an unexplored field for him... he wants to take it to another level of artistic creation.
4. AMBITION - The WILL of PERFECTION, of surpassing not only others before him, but also HIMself!! Michael is never content with himself, the title of the King of Pop is already achieved and never surpassed, he won dozens and dozens of awards, he won some other dozens of Guinness book titles, he beat all the music records of selling albums in History! What else could he do to obtain artistic satisfaction???
He has studied the greats from this Movies & entertainment business and now he wants to create something BIGGER, something never achieved before! A reality movie! that is not just a Movie, but a way of achieving many goals at a time: revenge, uplift his career, surpass himself, change humanity, expose the Illuminati, and all the aspects of this hoax that we've been investigating since June 25th, 2009.
5. Promote his FAMILY: ever since this hoax, his family members have been more popular than ever. It's somehow a Come Back of the Jackson5 + parents & sisters + children. All reunited and more loving than ever! Each one of them talented actors/artists, unique, charming and unique in their own way!
6. HELP the other artists, Destroy the Music Industry MAFIA.
7. ELVIS - What a good opportunity for them both this hoax is!! So that they can demonstrate to the entire world HOW the tabloid press, the media attention and the celebrity disadvantages can determine a BIG artist to fake his death in order to obtain the "retirement" from the entertainment industry, to obtain that deserved peace and tranquil life after they have served their public with love and devotion! otherwise it seems to be impossible! other than "playing dead", they can't obtain all that! especially if they received death-threats and they were both followed by "money sharks" who were after their catalogs and fortunes! How crazy this world is!! This has got to change once they come back!! I really hope we will witness a double-BAM!
8. The JUSTICE & HEALTH systems that literally suck pretty much in every corner of this world - think the trial-movie is made to expose all of this !!
These are the major reasons I think...
What do you think @AppleHead? What are your answers to your own questions? I challenge you back now lol
SimPattYK thank you very much for your answers!!! Thank you also for accepting THE CHALLENGE,lol lolol/,now I will tell you what I think are THE REASONs.
1. PASSION for CREATION.Michael was always "ADDICTED" TO WORK,to CREATE and to INNOVATE,he was never "ADDICTED" to anything more than that.
2. PLANET ,HUMANITY,and CHILDREN,who are OUR FUTURE!!!!
3. JUSTICE ,TRUTH,REAL health,and LOVE.
I left THE MAIN reason for all thins IN THE END:
End OF FEAR,and for that we need the 911 CALL.I'm sure that you all know what this part of the MOVIE means.It was all AN ILLUSION created by V/MICHAEL,so that EVEY/US can WAKE Up once and for all.There was no other way,IT WAS IMPERATIVE for us,because only this way,we will LET GO TO THE FEAR.
V for Vendetta - Evey's awakening
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruEUCwVgHdk[/youtube]
Vforvanquish/Michael told us all this but it seems that people already forget about that.He already told us last year all that had happened till this day.
A Wrinkle in Time, a Wrinkle in Plans
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGPQOT8OcZU&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Quote
“People Should Not Be Afraid of Their Governments. …”
People should not be afraid of their Governments
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjLIgw65dmU&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
What is Anonymous? What is "The Plan"?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drx8cwG-aKE[/youtube]
We as people ARE CONDITIONED since birth,what/how to THINK,what to FEEL,how to HATE,how to SPENT,SPENT and SPENT agian,lol!!!But who is TEACHING US HOW TO LOVE?????? WHO???? :cry: :cry:
HATE,REVENGE and NEGATIVITY have no place here,if we want to FEEL LOVE and to be ONE.
We are NOT CONNSUMERS/ROBOTS ,we are HUMAN BEING for GOD sake :) !!!
The End Of Fear
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDTbdH4rL-I&feature=related[/youtube]
The Greatest Speech Ever Made
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo[/youtube]
Vfirvanquish told us everything,what is happening now,but he also PROMISED that SOMETHING AMAZING ITs ABOUT TO OCCUR.Ordinary people along with acts of compassion/love have the power to break spells, break illusions, get us back to reality—out of the rabbit (0:50) hole, as it were—to the truth.There is no OTHER way, LOVE is the answer to EVERYTHING.As I told before HATE and REVENGE have no place here,otherwise,he can't guarantee that we'd all be able to get home safely after the "event" .GREAT TIMES and "CHANGES" will come, Changes that will allows us to drop all our fears, worries and prejudices.
THE END of the world,as we KNOW IT,is near.
Many people are refusing to believe in the end of the world, merely because they don’t want to believe it—not because it isn’t true (or a lack of evidence). But who are the bigger fools: the ones who believe and are ready, yet it does not come—or the ones who don’t believe and are not ready, and then it does come??
The end of the world is only bad news, for those who are not ready. If you don’t want the end of the world to come, maybe you need to take a look at the man in the mirror. God has promised to His faithful: “A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.” (Psalm 91:7).
When MJ was talking in “This Is It”, about the 4 years: he said don’t wait for the government. And in the song “They Don’t Really Care About Us”, the word “they” is not primarily about the media.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=8HSNeHHuQA4&hl=en
[/youtube]
The banned version of the video is about prison,and who runs prisons: the media, or the government?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAi3dJIJwgI[/youtube]
The other version has MJ singing “you can never kill me” (at 1:05),and this is while he’s standing beside the NWO all-seeing eye, that is also on the back of the USA one dollar bill (which says Novus Ordo Seclorum under the eye, and is Latin for New World Order .
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q [/youtube]
THE END OF FEAR is coming and NOTHING CAN'T STOP THAT,NOTHING 8-)!!!!!!!!!!
http://galatorg.com/pm2012/pm2012.html (http://galatorg.com/pm2012/pm2012.html)
http://www.youtube.com/social/blog/qSMjRidV-yY (http://www.youtube.com/social/blog/qSMjRidV-yY)
P.S. For surprises click on every WORD ;),especially on DO IT an rebel!!!!
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 07, 2011, 05:29:28 AM
what a wonderful conundrum mj has us in!
i respect and love all of you. however, i really take my hat off to everyone (people like purelove, bec, scorpoion & sim, though they have opposing views) who are confident in what they have chosen to believe in terms of the reasons why mj is doing this. i think its a very special thing to be able to confidently believe ones theory, unlike myself who can still be swayed (at this stage, hopefully that will change) to and fro between theories and is still uncertain abt certain areas of the hoax. i hope that in time i am able to feel confident in what i believe about the reasons why.
at the moment, i am sitting with: fake court. i do believe that he has been playing with us for 20 + years in terms of putting out crazy stuff abt him and having us for fools. i think that created hysteria, interest and was a technique used to keep him of current interest to the media for the past 30 years. having said that, at this stage i cant believe that DH is all for just a movie, because of the greiving fans and feelings that mj wouldnt do that to people who have supported for him for so long. but then, i dont know all the facts at this stage, so perhaps that is why i see it this way. atm, i just think it has to be for something bigger.
and having said that :roll:...... i believe that mj will use this opportunity to document everything on camera and turn it all in to a movie. and perhaps we (the public) might be part of that.
and having said all that (double eye roll - as i am starting to annoy myself) :roll: :roll: the only basis that i have, to think what i think about why mj didnt create DH, (being movie only theory) is based on what i "think mj would do" - referencing my comment "i dont think mj would do that to fans"... and if there is anything that i have learned about mj is that we dont really know mj at all... only the person he wanted us to know. (a nod to becs post) respect/ so therefore what would i know? or any of us for that matter....
as you can see, i am insanely confused. therefore, wrap me in a jacket and throw me in a room! LOL....
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/savvyamigo/straightjacket.gif)
in all seriousness... it doesnt matter. if i am wrong or right. i know that MJ lives. i believe in bam. i dont know for certain what i believe abt the reasons why just yet. but i will always have faith.. and really faith in things we dont understand is a perfect demonstration of faith...
whenever i am condfused, i think of TS post that said TRUST ME.... i guess that is all i can do while i am still confused.
after all is said and done, i'd rather be confused about the reasons why but have faith in bam, than be a non believer fan without any faith of a comeback. being a believer is confusing and an emotional roller coaster and if i could turn to back time to before i knew abt DH, i still would choose this path for all it gives. good, bad, ugly, beautiful.
Post by: curls on November 07, 2011, 05:50:57 AM
You know the more I think about 'the illusion' aspect of the hoax, the more I see that each one of us can be 'right' with our theories, even the conflicting ones, because so many rabbit holes have been opened, MJ has directed us in so many different directions and many/all/none may be the 'real' whys/hows/whats of this hoax.
I guess we each get to be amused and/or confused at different stages in our hoax journeys!
'Am I amusing you or just confusing you?' MJ, Is It Scary?
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 07, 2011, 05:52:26 AM
Post by: MJonmind on November 07, 2011, 06:20:32 AM
I am SOOOO glad that the topic of the 2005 trial being part of MJ's hoax is finally being discussed openly!!
Thank you Applehead for your bravery!
SimPattyK, you didn't have me on your list of names :lol: . I've been saying it for a long time. It's the only explanation that makes any sense for MJ's 25 year plan, and also answers Back's, Front's, and TS's posts. I think perhaps as we can so confidently see that the Murray trial is a hoax that it gives us confidence to look further back as well. I believe this is part of MJ's timing in revealing to us.
RK, I think you are right in saying that at some level we've all been had, because even with knowing the 2005 was planned, we still don't know how deep the rabbit hole is, nor how encompassing or far-reaching is the purpose and backing is this hoax/plan.
Bec and Mjj4ever777, your posts were bang on IMO. But I do take things to a more God-level in backing/source. If you read MJ's poems, lyrics to The Man, many words are a reflection of only God himself. I have long felt that God himself created a movie/hoax--the story of history, and just like The Wizard of Oz, we are travelling along to paradise and in the end we find the "Old Man" (God) behind the curtain. Back, in the Theory of 7, talks about the parallel lives and purposes of Jesus and Michael Jackson. I believe Michael is a representative of God, pointing humanity to what God's plan is for us. God's plan was not to condemn us but to show us who we are, help us become aware. He set up a trap for us in the garden of Eden, knowing full well we were babies of naivity, and like Evey thought V was torturing her, she came to see it helped her to find out about herself in a deep way. The Bible is a code book, a hoax, a "lie" if you will. There is no free will, there is no hell, there is only God, his plan, his movie, His love for all the creatures including aliens in the universe. All literature, holy books, movies are also God speaking--since He is the creator behind the scenes of it all. I believe God together with MJ orchestrated and choreographed the thousands of details in the MJ 2005 trial and death hoax causing them all to dove-tail together in perfect harmony with perhaps the actors involved not even aware they were part of it. None of us are really aware of God moving within us to think this or do that, nor that villians do their bad deeds to fulfill their roles. That's what good movie writers, directors, producers do. Which Michael is. Which God is.
Jono
Quote
And I believe it is imperative to know and understand who "The Prince of Peace" is, and also to know Him..Rev. June Gatlin felt called to proclaim MJ, The Prince of Peace.
Australian MJ BeLIEver
Quote
TS PHONE HOME......mj_bad/ I love it!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/crunkhitz/et-finger.jpg)
Quote
28… 71…80… 37…
roll that dice, gotta check it twice
centrifuging on the vial
Light Man spinning all the while
Exhibit B gonna rock that trial
the "N"ew, the "CHA_GE" --- if it makes you wonder
relapse back, mesh letter to number
won't be long 'til you hear that thunder……………
Quote
Once at UCLA, Senneff said Murray was “spinning…moving around, nervous, sweating, multitasking."http://gracemj.wordpress.com/category/murray-preliminary/ (http://gracemj.wordpress.com/category/murray-preliminary/)
And Murray walking down the corridor in UCLA was Defencse B, or possibly Front's Exhibit B. Could this be a connection? We probably need more confirmation.
michael-jackson/
Post by: Sarahli on November 07, 2011, 07:42:51 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 08:36:19 AM
Why this track is of constant present interest, no matter how "civilized" we get ?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAi3dJIJwgI[/youtube]
Post by: jono on November 07, 2011, 08:52:07 AM
JonoQuoteAnd I believe it is imperative to know and understand who "The Prince of Peace" is, and also to know Him..Rev. June Gatlin felt called to proclaim MJ, The Prince of Peace.
Yes, I am sure he did but the context here is “search for clues about the truth in the Bible, just as you have done with this hoax investigation. Pay attention to the details, and follow "The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6)”, and to me, who have studied theology for three years, it is well known that Isaiah 9:6 is one of the best known prophecies about Jesus Christ (written approximately 700 years BC). That is the context of what TS wrote and what I was referring to.
We should search for the truth in the Bible, just as we have done with this hoax investigation. TS is keeping them separate, “just as you have done”…
My interpretation of it anyways! :)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 08:55:32 AM
Sometimes I would just get down on my knees in front of him.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 07, 2011, 10:02:37 AM
I was just curious you guys, and please know that I respect everyone's opinions, because we all have a 'choice" of what we want to believe in, so this question is just me honestly being curious, where peoples minds are at , as we await for the verdict. So I appreciate your input!
Do you think Michael did this for "Payback" or for "LOVE" It has to be one or the other...Did Michael do this because he truly cares about each and every human on this planet, or because he wanted to be the Greatest "Entertainer" in the world. Who is the REAL Michael Jackson??? Seriously ask yourself this, what do you "Feel in your bones"?
Great questions! It's difficult to know who the REAL Michael Jackson is because we've only always seen and heard what he has wanted us to. But based on how he lived his life...things which we can point to like his charity work, his speeches, his lyrics, his messages, etc etc...it's clear, to me anyway, that a BIG part of who he is, and always has been, is 'love'....pure 'love', not the superficial-type 'love' that is rampant in our societies today.
Because I don't want to presume to know every aspect of who he 'really' is...I'm not sure whether or not 'payback' is on his list of 'reasons' for this hoax. But the very word 'payback' is interpretive...'payback' can be intentional (i.e. someone sets out to get revenge for wrongs done against them)...but it could also be the by-product of justice (without an intentional revenge motive).
Mike often talked about being Jesus-like...and yes, Jesus was all about love and forgiveness...but neither mean that 'justice' and/or 'judgement' from up above will spare 'wrong-doers' from all consequence(s).
I do believe that Mike is doing all this for love...but I also believe that IF whatever happens in this hoax, in full or in part, results in the 'payback' of some individuals...it will be a by-product of 'justice' (and long overdue).
Love sometimes has to include 'tough love' in order to teach the lesson...God, himself, is notorious for this.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Well said Be The Change..well said, and I agree with you! This is a BIG Life lesson for humanity as a whole.
The one thing I have learned in life is that You and only you, are responsible for your own happiness! We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and what we put out into the universe. You can't lie to yourself...you can try, but the reality is you can't! If you aren't happy in your life, that is a sign that you need to "make a change", no one can do that for us. To attain Happiness and LOVE means consciously working on yourself, and for most, that is just too hard. It is a sad time when it is easier to live in fear and darkness, then it is to live in happiness and LOVE. It is even sadder when people think that they don't have a choice because they have been led so far down the "proverbial rabbit hole, that they can't even see a glimmer of "LIGHT" at the end of the tunnel... I will continue to try and inspire, wherever I can on my path.
Thanks to this eye opening journey from Michael, I have NO DOUBT that the Ultimate goal here is LOVE...it is who Michael IS, it is what I am and it is what everyone of us has the capability to be...Pure, unselfish Love....It really is a beautiful thing, just sad at what had to transpire to get the world to "take a look in the mirror and make that change"! Take back control of your life, just say NO, and practice living and just being LOVE...I have never been happier in my life and it is because I LIVE Love, knowing that I am LOVED in return...no amount of money can buy that!
God Bless you and know that I truly LOVE and appreciate you and all you do here on this forum...If we can get people to even read our posts on LOVE, then that is a start! I Love reading your posts, you are an inspiration, so thank you!!
@mjj4ever...Thank you SO much for your kind words. I, too, enjoy reading your posts because you exude LOVE no matter the topic, no matter the frustration. In fact, it seems like you are one of a very few members who doesn't get 'rattled' from time to time lol....and that's a great thing, great self-control/perspective. It's something I need to work on because I tend to 'react' with all pistons firing :lol:...I purposely hold off posting at times until I've let things 'simmer' for awhile because 'time' always allows for better perspective...and more importantly, I'd rather spread positivity over negativity anyday.
So please keep spreading and exuding your LOVE...your posts change the 'make-up' of my brain in the moment of reading them...and always for the better. I love you too bearhug
Now that we're completely off-topic :lol:...jury deliberations are set to resume and a verdict can come at any time. That, in itself, is a mixed bag of feelings lol...I don't know if I should be nervous/anxious, or excited to see what comes after the verdict. There's those extremes again :lol:...but KNOWING that it IS all for love, the only thing I don't feel is fear.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: curls on November 07, 2011, 10:07:37 AM
@ CURLS - btw, loved your previous post. not the one above this, the one before. identified with much of what you wrote.
Thanks Aussie! I enjoy reading yours too - I know you've not been here very long, but you've caught up real quick!
Post by: paula-c on November 07, 2011, 10:08:22 AM
All of us have seen the mistakes, but the experienced prosecutors have not been able to see, the witnesses are wrong, they are trying to hide the evidence, lie about the facts, contradictions even in the experts' statements.
Since the beginning we are listening to the family by saying that Michael had addiction problems ( helping Murray for his acquittal ?)
In my opinion Murray must be acquitted by the court hoax, that nobody died.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 07, 2011, 10:13:39 AM
I am going to talk about the trial, it is normal in a court of justice where there is a murder trial we can see bears of stuffed animals, elephants or a pumpkin of Halloween, or a judge all the time with a big smile on his face?
All of us have seen the mistakes, but the experienced prosecutors have not been able to see, the witnesses are wrong, they are trying to hide the evidence, lie about the facts, contradictions even in the experts' statements.
Since the beginning we are listening to the family by saying that Michael had addiction problems ( helping Murray for his acquittal ?)
In my opinion Murray must be acquitted by the court hoax, that nobody died.
UH huh!! THAT"S exactly what I've been saying!!
This court is NOT normal. Those things ARE NOT in a normal court. This court cannot be real in my opinion. All these things you've stated point to hoax/movie set court...I suppose it could be a sting court too, but not real, genuine court.
And yes I agree, no one died, so no one goes to jail..and also, someone has to promote that documentary Murray has made!!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 10:29:07 AM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 11:10:15 AM
ooohh come here you! bearhug I love you for this^^ post! And even if I didn't add your name on the list, just know you were "always on my mind!" ;)
I am SOOOO glad that the topic of the 2005 trial being part of MJ's hoax is finally being discussed openly!!
Thank you Applehead for your bravery!
SimPattyK, you didn't have me on your list of names :lol: . I've been saying it for a long time. It's the only explanation that makes any sense for MJ's 25 year plan, and also answers Back's, Front's, and TS's posts. I think perhaps as we can so confidently see that the Murray trial is a hoax that it gives us confidence to look further back as well. I believe this is part of MJ's timing in revealing to us.
[...]
Please forgive me and allow me to correct my mistake....lol ::P
That's why I don't usually like making lists and naming people, because you always forget someone you shouldn't! lol
@Applehead, @Bec, @wishingstar, @Aidan_81, @MJonMind: Ooh thank God! I am so relieved you all guys think that the 2005 Trial was a hoax (at least partially!); there are a few beLIEvers on facebook who think that too... so the group seems to be getting larger and larger! that means something! We're not crazy and we're not alone!! and our eyes are wide open and looking into the good direction!
[....]
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 11:12:28 AM
great post, good videos!
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 11:35:23 AM
I am going to talk about the trial, it is normal in a court of justice where there is a murder trial we can see bears of stuffed animals, elephants or a pumpkin of Halloween, or a judge all the time with a big smile on his face?
All of us have seen the mistakes, but the experienced prosecutors have not been able to see, the witnesses are wrong, they are trying to hide the evidence, lie about the facts, contradictions even in the experts' statements.
Since the beginning we are listening to the family by saying that Michael had addiction problems ( helping Murray for his acquittal ?)
In my opinion Murray must be acquitted by the court hoax, that nobody died.
UH huh!! THAT"S exactly what I've been saying!!
This court is NOT normal. Those things ARE NOT in a normal court. This court cannot be real in my opinion. All these things you've stated point to hoax/movie set court...I suppose it could be a sting court too, but not real, genuine court.
And yes I agree, no one died, so no one goes to jail..and also, someone has to promote that documentary Murray has made!!
There are definitely some suspicious things going on in that court room. I was discussing it with my mother (who just become convinced that Michael is alive because of the odd things going on with this trial) and she said that it is highly unusual for cameras not to show the jury not even once, especially during closing arguments. She also said it was suspect that they didn't show anyone (family, media, fans, spectators) sitting in the rows behind the attorneys. This is the first trial that I've really watched so I didn't know that it wasn't normal. However, I do remember bits and pieces of the OJ Simpson trial (I was about 6 at the time and quite annoyed that it was on tv for what seemed like forever and cut into my cartoon viewing) and I vividly remember the cameras showing the jury and a lot of other people in the court room.
With that being said, I'm not even 100% sure that there IS a jury. I've never seen them and if the court if fake and everyone there is in on it and the whole trial is scripted (I'm not sure either way) then there really is no need for a jury. The only problem I have with this theory is that the people who sit in on the trial would certainly notice if there was no jury. It's all possible that the jury are just paid actors. I would love to hear everyone's opinion on this matter as it might help clarify when we will hear the verdict n what it may be.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 07, 2011, 12:04:55 PM
It is 'odd', however, that the camera never showed the 'audience'...this was common place during the Anthony trial and may others I've seen.
I'm not sure if the jury instructions have been posted somewhere on the forum...but after re-reading them, I'm not sure how....if the jury follows those instructions...they could find Murray 'not guilty'. Here's the pdf file for anyone interested in reading them: http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf).
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that deliberations room to hear what they are discussing and what is causing them to take this long. Again, after reading those instructions....the only way, IMO, that they can find Murray 'not guilty' is if they completely mess-up the instructions or some other intervening factor has come into play that we're not aware of. It seems pretty straight forward to me. Or maybe they are just very thorough :?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Andrea on November 07, 2011, 12:21:47 PM
Most of us on here, including myself, are very sure that Michael is alive and coming back, so at least we’re agreed on that. I do believe this hoax is bigger than all of us and that there would be no way we could ever figure it all out. We’ve been guided along the way but none of us can get inside Michael’s head or truly understand where he’s coming from or what his next move will be. We are fortunate to understand that this is all a hoax and watch it play out in real time but knowing this doesn’t make us a step ahead of the game. We cannot predict when he will be back exactly, how he’ll do it or even his reasons, although excellent suggestions have been made. As it is right now, the hoax exists here, on the forum and on the internet (twitter, youtube, etc) and we see hints of it in movies, tv shows and commercials. Despite that, many of us have laid our reputations on the line by going “public” in our real lives with our belief in a massive hoax because whatever other people might think, we KNOW it’s not ridiculous at all. We’ve come to believe the unbelievable and see beyond the lies and connect the dots. To us, Michael’s hoax is a part of our everyday lives and something we couldn’t fathom living without and discussing the hoax is normal for us, even comforting.
The trial has only strengthened my belief that this is all a hoax and it couldn’t be more obvious. I don’t know what the verdict will be or what will happen next but that’s what makes this such an adventure. We are venturing into the unknown and I’m just so very pleased that I’m able to take part it in, however small my role might be. And I'm grateful to my fellow hoaxers - we are all in this together!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 12:31:39 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 12:45:28 PM
If Murray is found guilty by a jury, can he ask for a recourse?
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 12:47:17 PM
That said, it won't be the end of the world for me if they'll acquit The Doc, because that won't change my belief that Michael is alive.
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 12:48:11 PM
I don't know how the U.S, justice system works so I have a question:
If Murray is found guilty by a jury, can he ask for a recourse?
Yes he can, he can appellate the sentence.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 12:51:41 PM
[.....]^^ It DOES sound crazy and far fetched indeed!!
I know it's probably crazy, but I keep staring at Murray and imagining if that really was Michael in disguise right there all the time for us to enjoy watching by the hour. ;)) I know I know...silly me! :roll: But I can't take my eyes off of him.
TSQuoteWell, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!suspicious// [...]
It DID sound like that too back in 2009 when the first beLIEvers were trying to prove that Dave Dave was actually Michael!
So no wonder that another crazy disguise like that would be again 'welcome" with negativity and repulsion. loll
I'm not saying I'm sure Murray is Michael in disguise. I'm saying that it could be possible and I beLIEve Michael could be capable of doing anything!! if Dave Dave was the coolest disguise I've ever seen, I'm sure Michael wanted to surprise us and surpass himself with another even more cool disguise!
Why not Murray??
Especially because we know that before 2005 or so , no one has heard of him!
I remember watching hoax-videos in 2009 about Murray and how people tried to look for him on the internet and other medical data bases, they did pretty much extensive research on him and they found nothing! As if he never existed before!!
Then people found out about that "white-Murray", then they found out about another "black -Murray" who is also an actor and resembles a lot to Murray!
Then they found out that Murray's hand looks whiter in some parts, as if he had vitiligo!
Then they found out that Murray dressed during the trial of 2010 exactly like he dressed during MJ's trial in 2005.
I mean come on this guy is really bizarre to say the least!
Even if he exists for real, that wouldn't be impossible for Michael to get disguised like him. Do you remember that at a certain point there were beLIEvers who noticed some height differences between one dr. Murray appearing at a certain time and another dr. Murray that appeared some other time??
I am so sorry I never really took into consideration this possibility^^ of "Murray-the disguise" only up until 1-2 months ago... Otherwise I would have collected pics and links to sustain everything I have written here above^^ Everything is just according to what I can remember about this guy so far...in these 2 hoax-years
This is the pic I found about his "vitiligo-hand"?? loll WTF??
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3323/2n0uio8.jpg)
The original pic:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6214/33d666c283627acf2861df6.jpg)
[...]I found this cute MJ and milk story:This great pic was created by Mona, a dear friend of mine from FBQuote"So Michael and I went in search of his perfect ranch. We used to sneak away by ourselves to look at ranches and see what was available.Michael Jackson, Miko Brando and I drove up to Santa Barbara, which is about 80 miles from Encino. Bill Bray also came along to drive and to protect us. Michael and Miko had been at the Cal Prep School together as schoolmates since a young age, and Miko was Michael's closest and dearest friend. Just the four of us went, with Miko driving part of the way. (Michael liked to drive his own Mercedes Benz when he could, so he drove part of the way as well).
We passed by a pasture, which was full of baby calves; it was a dairy farm and all the baby calves were nursing from the udders of their mothers. Michael was so thrilled! He was screaming with joy, so happy and laughing. He loved to watch the animals being fed. We stopped and stood on the fence and watched them. The farmer came over, and asked us, "What are you doing here?"
"Well, we're watching the calves taking milk from their mothers." I replied. "Is that okay? Do you mind?"
"No, not at all I was just curious. Nobody ever stops by." The farmer was friendly, and it was apparent that he didn't realize he was talking to Michael Jackson. So Michael started asking him a lot of questions about the gestation period of a calf. How long does it take to have a baby calf? How long before a mother no longer has to feed a baby calf? Michael really had the head of a milk farmer! He was Interested in raising animals. He asked all kinds of questions about their breeds. There were a couple of big black stud bulls there. The milk farm had hundreds of calves all sired by the stud bulls. Michael was fascinated by this and got involved in the discussion of how to create a dairy farm and how milk is pasteurized.
I want you to know that Michael was actually taught then and there by that farmer how to milk a Holstein cow: by aiming two udders into a bucket!
It was a thrill to watch him milk the cow. They tried to teach me, Miko Brando and Michael's major domo Bill Bray how to milk a cow, too, but Michael was the best. He actually managed to fill the bucket to the rim and loved doing it.
Bill Bray kept on rushing us to get back on the road. With a quick aim, Michael squirted cow's milk right into Bill's face. Poor Bill wiped off his wet face with a handkerchief as the farmer roared with laughter and Michael squealed with joy He announced he'd like to move In and become a dairy farmer.
It was really quite funny as the farmer never realized Michael was a celebrity. He was really not In tune with the world of show business, only with his pastures and his cows. Michael took full advantage of it and enjoyed being anonymous. The farmer did ask where we were from so we said Encino in the San Fernando Valley. He did not connect Michael with being the King of Pop in the musical world."http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041 (http://pt-br.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=202936356404041)
Someone mentioned almond milk as an alternative to cow's milk which isn't meant for humans but for calves. http://www.thegrio.com/health/choosing-alternatives-to-cows-milk.php (http://www.thegrio.com/health/choosing-alternatives-to-cows-milk.php)
And here's the deposition where MJ's talks about the cows on Neverland property. I love watching it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qfBB0Rnjg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qfBB0Rnjg)
You can find her "Michael Jackson ALIVE ♥ THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH" FB page on this link - https://www.facebook.com/groups/166081402401/
Don't you love this? lmao ! it's soo cool! :lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2747/30883610150925280680545.jpg)
I LOVEd all your post ^^ @MjonMind , especially this story about Michael feeding the baby-calves! So CUTE, so like Michael!!
There's definitely more to this whole MILK-thing than just the "nickname" for Propofol!
I think everything surrounding milk & Michael it's like an alarm-signal for all the "odd" substances they're using to process the milk. It's an alarm signal for all the mothers out the there in the world to pay attention to what sort of milk they're feeding their own babies with! it should be either naturally breast-fed milk or milk from animals but with as less chemicals or chemical processing as possible! industry milk can cause cancer, I've read a material on this some time ago! The statistics made (I don't know how many years ago) showed that populations which drank less milk per capita, had lower percentages of cancer (for ex. the Asians who never drink milk!) while the other nations who use mostly industrial, highly pasteurized milk and also artificial-powder milk, had higher percentages of all cancer types among the population. Then there was also a discussion about all these types of baby-food in jars, that's not rather healthy food either! id was said it developed obesity in children under the age of 5! which is really not normal for a child of that age!! It really does make you think about it all!
But if you start thinking about what we are eating, then we won't have the urge to eat at all! because even the green food is not really safe if you think about how many chemicals they keep spreading on them to make them grow and look great ---therefore have a more 'commercial" aspect, be more attractive to the buyers!!
Anyway, @MjonMind , just wanted to show you this montage I made , inspired by your story about Michael feeding the baby-calves :lol: :-* even thoug these are baby-deer and baby-tiger lolll To cut it short Michael loves feeding babies (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0007.gif)
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5117/mjelvismilkyway06.jpg)
Post by: Coco on November 07, 2011, 01:05:58 PM
"ABC7 Murray Trial
@abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We have a verdict!!!! Read in 2 hours!
4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad"
I wonder what it is...
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 01:06:08 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Post by: BeTheChange on November 07, 2011, 01:10:16 PM
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
The jury has finally reached a verdict! Two hours until it's announced!WOOW! can't wait!! thanks for info! ;)
"ABC7 Murray Trial
@abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We have a verdict!!!! Read in 2 hours!
4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad"
I wonder what it is...
I'm soooo thrilled! :lol:
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4836/19933120451533957262019.jpg)
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on November 07, 2011, 01:27:43 PM
The jury has finally reached a verdict! Two hours until it's announced!WOOW! can't wait!! thanks for info! ;)
"ABC7 Murray Trial
@abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We have a verdict!!!! Read in 2 hours!
4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad"
I wonder what it is...
I'm soooo thrilled! :lol:
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4836/19933120451533957262019.jpg)
What a cute picture of Michael!!!!! :D
I am also so thrilled! THIS IS IT!
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 01:28:57 PM
I think the verdict will be "guilty", they reached it too soon, but who knows?!
On the other hand, today is the the 7th of November, 7/11, at least we have this number match.
OMG I am scared :'(
Post by: Pippi Longstocking on November 07, 2011, 01:30:03 PM
I can see this turning real ugly, real fast outside the court house. I just hope that people remember that no matter what's gone on...Mike would NOT want people getting violent with each other over him. That would go against everything he stood for. But tensions seem to be running on a fevered pitch out there...just hope it remains civil.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I totally agree with this. I hope people won't forget Michael's message, no matter what happens.
However... I can't wait for the verdict.
L.O.V.E.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 01:31:03 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:32:27 PM
Verdict reached at 11:0111 again!
Though 11:11 would've been perfect! loll ;)
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20319.msg368936#msg368936
[...]Why?
OMG I am scared :'(
Don't be!
Whether Murray is found guilty or not, it still does NOT prove Michael is dead!
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 01:35:03 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:37:33 PM
If he's found guilty then how can you still explain Michael is alive and an "innocent" would go to prison?Would it be the first time that an innocent went to prison?
The Justice system sucks!
That is the point! [in case he does go to prison], it means Michael wants to prove something in this sense!
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 01:37:53 PM
I can't breathe pale/
Fii linistita !
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:41:10 PM
If he's found guilty then how can you still explain Michael is alive a[...]By enumerating over and over all the clues/slip-ups/inconsistencies/profs that we've been investigating ever since this whole thing started back in 2009.
Rewind... Rewind...
No matter what the verdict is, that long list of clues ^^ cannot be erased just like that!
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 01:42:33 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:43:40 PM
Sa'nebunesc! si tu esti romanca?? :shock: Forumul asta e chiar plin de romani!!I can't breathe pale/Fii linistita !
ce tare!!
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 01:46:00 PM
If he's found guilty then how can you still explain Michael is alive a[...]By enumerating over and over all the clues/slip-ups/inconsistencies/profs that we've been investigating ever since this whole thing started back in 2009.
Rewind... Rewind...
No matter what the verdict is, that long list of clues ^^ cannot be erased just like that!
I agree, and I must add that a verdict doesn't necessarily mean the truth.
Post by: sigh on November 07, 2011, 01:48:07 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 07, 2011, 01:49:43 PM
Verdict reached, hard to predict. Should be not guilty (way too much reasonable doubt) and besides that, he's not dead, lol. But we'll see, could go both ways. 11/7 = 77 and 11+7 is 18, which Murray had on the shirt he wore more than once. What a coincidence! :lol: :lol: :lol:
My bet: NOT guilty, just because everyone seems to be so sure he will be convicted.
Post by: paula-c on November 07, 2011, 01:50:10 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:51:02 PM
bearhug @ SimPattyK(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0006.gif)
pupici (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif)
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 01:52:44 PM
La fel si eu....Sa'nebunesc! si tu esti romanca?? :shock: Forumul asta e chiar plin de romani!!I can't breathe pale/Fii linistita !
ce tare!!
I'm too tensed right now, can't think clear. What will happen if he's found guilty and then nothing?
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 01:54:01 PM
(http://www.argentinet.com/emot/emot4/fuma_mucho.gif)may I join you? (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Fume/0080.gif)
ps: I "smoke" exclusively for this special occasion ^^ :lol: :lol:
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 07, 2011, 01:55:03 PM
HLN- 10 hrs 7 min
Why diff times?
PS- This is so exciting, I'm nervous but excited....what a genius.
THIS IS IT-VERDICT IN (HLN headline)
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 01:58:23 PM
& HLN says 4pm ET (:
Post by: MaryK on November 07, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
I am over here in Germany.
Can anyone tell me what time it will be in Germany when the verdict will be announced?
Anyone?
Help! /white flag/
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 02:04:06 PM
afraid/ Si tu ?? WOW!! Sunt mai socata de cati romani suntem decat de verdictul in sine! lolll :lol:La fel si eu....Sa'nebunesc! si tu esti romanca?? :shock: Forumul asta e chiar plin de romani!!I can't breathe pale/Fii linistita !
ce tare!!
I'm too tensed right now, can't think clear. What will happen if he's found guilty and then nothing?Girls we need to calm, relax...
Have a coffee ... (http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8242/cafea2.gif)(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8242/cafea2.gif)(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8242/cafea2.gif)
Let's wait for the verdict first and then worry about what happens next if Murray is found guilty. So many things can still happen!! The clues and proofs are still there and the BEST is yet to come! Don't forget this! ;)
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 02:04:48 PM
Post by: MaryK on November 07, 2011, 02:10:06 PM
Post by: M_A_G_G_I on November 07, 2011, 02:12:13 PM
The verdict will be announced at 1 pm.
I am over here in Germany.
Can anyone tell me what time it will be in Germany when the verdict will be announced?
Anyone?
Help! /white flag/
According to the countdown on tmz.com the verdict will be read at 10pm in germany.
I'm also watching from Germany :)
PS: Any thoughts about the movie "Anonymous" directed by Roland Emmerich? This film came out just about 2 years after "2012", which was also directed by Emmerich and contained a lot of clues about Michael (the main protagonist's name is Jackson) and the end of the world. I remember TS writing about it.
Post by: IWantYouBack on November 07, 2011, 02:15:50 PM
Here are my opinions. But please remember that these are just my OPINIONS. I am not saying I'm right, in fact, I may be far from the truth, but it's what I think COULD be a possible scenario. So please bare with me:
Based on my opinions and notes about the trial, whether the verdict is guilty or not guilty, we BeLIEvers win! :D
If "Conrad Murray" is found Not Guilty, then to me, this means that Murray is definitely in on it with Michael and together, with the help of others and definitely the FBI, they are indeed stinging SOMEONE. Whether it be AEG, Organized Crime, or even doctors, I don't know who it is, but they HAVE to be stinging someone for not only Michael's benefit, but for every human being's benefit. It's all about Michael's message and his goal to Heal The World. Therefore, not guilty = MJ's alive.
If "Conrad Murray" is found Guilty, then to me, it's possible that Conrad Murray was in cahoots with AEG and the other people who were out to get Michael Jackson for all of these years and Michael simply framed him, but not at the last minute as some people have suggested (IMO, anyway). I think MJ knew that Murray was working with AEG to kill him, simply because to AEG, MJ was worth more dead than alive. I think MJ caught on to that and framed Murray as he was the direct guy working for AEG who may have been payed to kill Michael. Therefore, on June 25, MJ's hoax took place, framed Murray, and is alive today without Murray knowing. I have my own theory on what happened on June 25, but it's VERY long so I'm not going to post it. But if you're interested in hearing it, then I will post it.
Long story short: Whether he's guilty or not, MICHAEL IS ALIVE. :)
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 02:16:42 PM
The verdict will be announced at 1 pm.
I am over here in Germany.
Can anyone tell me what time it will be in Germany when the verdict will be announced?
Anyone?
Help! /white flag/
10 pm (:
Sorry if its late, everytime i click post a warning pops up :lol:
Post by: fatalkiss26 on November 07, 2011, 02:18:15 PM
Post by: Okay Annie on November 07, 2011, 02:20:24 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 02:23:08 PM
Verdict will be announced in 55 minutes all over the world.(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7444/flyingbutterfly.gif)(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4681/artsdivers00007.gif)(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4158/butterflywz5z5i.gif)(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9448/artsdivers00009.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7444/flyingbutterfly.gif)
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4158/butterflywz5z5i.gif) So excited (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7444/flyingbutterfly.gif) . . . . . (http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4158/butterflywz5z5i.gif) butterflies in my stomach :lol: (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7444/flyingbutterfly.gif)
Post by: MaryK on November 07, 2011, 02:24:51 PM
As for the verdict:
Can still be "guilty"....hoax court, hoax sentence.....or am I mistaken here?
Post by: BeTheChange on November 07, 2011, 02:27:42 PM
(http://www.argentinet.com/emot/emot4/fuma_mucho.gif)
That's exactly what I look like right now...but with bigger bags under the eyes afraid/
I'm gonna need a cardiologist soon...and I don't even have a clue what either verdict will mean for the hoax (i.e. which one to 'root' for lol). If I had to bet on it...I'd probably go with 'not guilty' as well...simply because, like Souza said, everyone is expecting it to be guilty.
But even then...I hope that the jury goes into the 'media room' to answer questions and explain how they reached their decision....because a 'not guilty' will require more of an explanation than the other.
Maybe a stiff drink is needed right about now.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on November 07, 2011, 02:31:37 PM
latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
@hlntv #murraytrial Michael's spirit will be with us in the court room and he will make sure the right verdict is made.
:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm sure that Michael made sure that the right verdict was made! party/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 02:32:15 PM
I don't know how the U.S, justice system works so I have a question:
If Murray is found guilty by a jury, can he ask for a recourse?
Yes he can, he can appellate the sentence.
Ah so this could go on for a long time.
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on November 07, 2011, 02:34:02 PM
Post by: IWantYouBack on November 07, 2011, 02:36:10 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 02:37:46 PM
How ironic, today is the 7thWe were announced about this significant date by a TMZ article released on June 19th, 2011
about those 11 separate roses and the bouquet of 7 roses, that were spread with a helicopter over Neverland!
At that time we weren't certain if it was gonna be 07 [July] 11th ?
or 07th of 11[November]? [-we now know that it's today!]
Most beLIEvers thought that it was gonna be on July 11th because of that photo of Michael with a film-camera, on which he had signed "See you in July"
This is the montage I did back then...
Again... Numerology played a big role in the hoax! ;)
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1781/mjhoaxtmzroses.jpg)
We don't know what this day is gonna bring to HoaxLand ,
but I'm sure it will be some day!! of some significance to it all.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 02:41:37 PM
Si tu esti din Romania :shock: I can't believe this :shock:I can't breathe pale/
Fii linistita !
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
*singing* whatever happens dont let go of my hand
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 02:48:13 PM
"It's with a heavy heart that I'm thanking you guys as we wait for "justice" but the only real justice would be to have him back"
:mrgreen:
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 02:49:42 PM
Omer wrote this on facebook:Omer is right, Michael we want you back!!!
"It's with a heavy heart that I'm thanking you guys as we wait for "justice" but the only real justice would be to have him back"
:mrgreen:
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 02:50:39 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 02:52:17 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm laughing with tears now!
LMFAO (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Rires/mdr-mort-de-rire-284923.gif) (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Rires/haha-rire-395.gif)
http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-jury-toilet-paper/#.Trg-t3JWp3A
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7769/image5as.jpg)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 02:56:18 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 02:59:05 PM
(http://www.link-vote.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/michael-jackson-hold-my-hand-duet-with-akon-web-grouprip-2010.jpg) -HOLD MY HAND+DON'T LET GO TO MY HAND = HEART FAILURE 8-)!!!!!
Post by: Pippi Longstocking on November 07, 2011, 03:01:42 PM
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 03:03:52 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 03:05:30 PM
I can't find it now crash/
Post by: Andrea on November 07, 2011, 03:07:43 PM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 03:11:09 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 03:15:39 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 03:16:37 PM
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 03:17:40 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 03:18:15 PM
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 07, 2011, 03:22:20 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 03:28:45 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 03:36:21 PM
Prosecution asked for Murray to be taken into custody and he is I believe.
Post by: _Anna_ on November 07, 2011, 03:41:34 PM
He's guilty
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 07, 2011, 03:59:12 PM
Post by: Andrea on November 07, 2011, 04:02:36 PM
Post by: Pippi Longstocking on November 07, 2011, 04:04:48 PM
... but we have to keep faith! It's still not over, beLIEve it!
LOVE
PS: OMG the data transfer on the forum is so slow tonight. Guess we are all posting our reactions right now.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 04:10:28 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 04:13:42 PM
There is no other way afraid/ afraid/ ,he was at O.J. SIMPSON trial also afraid/ afraid/ afraid/ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!!!
Jake Byrd at O.J. Simpson Press Conference
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCvbCbdHsms[/youtube]
CIRCUS
CIRCUS
CIRCUS party/
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 04:17:51 PM
Latoya told her "Michael loves everyone out here and he was with us in that courtroom, which is why justice was served."
Nothing has changed.
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 04:29:32 PM
Peace & LOVE to you all!
Post by: SimPattyK on November 07, 2011, 04:34:48 PM
FAKE FAKE FAKE...we knew this was a possibility, how do we really know if he will go to jail or not...it's all PART OF THE SHOW!^^ Exactly!!
My first impressions after the verdict:
1. Did I hear well or...?
Did anyone else hear when the lady read the verdict she said: "We the jury in the above entitled ACTION"
During MJ 2005 trial when the verdict was read, the lady said: "We the Jury in the above entitled CASE"! and not the action!!
Is this of relevance?
Are both expressions correct from a juridical point of view?
2. Then Murray really seemed ok, I mean, he cried during other not very significant days of the trial and now during the MOST significant day of the trial, when he's found guilty, he didn't cry.
3. Then I have this feeling that most of you, beLIEvers have had flashback when you saw Murray with handcuffs, just like Michael back in 2005!
4. 29th = 2+9 = 11
November 11th month
year 2011!
So here we have: 11-11-11 !!
Quote from: Andreea
Nov 29, 2011 is exactly 888 days (including end date) from June 25, 2009.Youpiiii!! Again an Elvis connection since 8 is his number!! and 888 = 3x8 = 24 again a significant number! related to MJ , Elvis & Murray too!!
For those who haven't seen yet this photo-montage, enjoy watching/reading!!
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2017/mjelvisarealive03.jpg)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 04:42:54 PM
Jake BYRD was reallly funny sitting on the GROUND!!!!
(http://bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Jake-Byrd.jpg)
(http://cbskroq.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/jakebyrd_murray.jpg?w=385&h=240&crop=1)
(http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/09/2007-09-19-MSNBC-OJGuy2.jpg)
(http://img218.exs.cx/img218/6889/wacko5os.jpg)
(http://www.maniacworld.com/Jake-Byrd-Crashes-OJ-Press-Conference.jpg)
(http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/2672079/view/1/type/png/width/378/height/378/oj-07-muscle-shirt.png)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 04:48:36 PM
I don't understand all these coincidences. God I don't see why you're doing this to Michael. Was he important to you? What is your plan God?
........
@Michael - can't you do something, please, please, something nice for us today? I can't go on but I can't give up, I need your help :(
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 04:55:08 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 04:56:26 PM
FAKE FAKE FAKE...we knew this was a possibility, how do we really know if he will go to jail or not...it's all PART OF THE SHOW!^^ Exactly!!
My first impressions after the verdict:
1. Did I hear well or...?
Did anyone else hear when the lady read the verdict she said: "We the jury in the above entitled ACTION"
During MJ 2005 trial when the verdict was read, the lady said: "We the Jury in the above entitled CASE"! and not the action!!
Is this of relevance?
Are both expressions correct from a juridical point of view?
2. Then Murray really seemed ok, I mean, he cried during other not very significant days of the trial and now during the MOST significant day of the trial, when he's found guilty, he didn't cry.
3. Then I have this feeling that most of you, beLIEvers have had flashback when you saw Murray with handcuffs, just like Michael back in 2005!
4. 29th = 2+9 = 11
November 11th month
year 2011!
So here we have: 11-11-11 !!Quote from: AndreeaNov 29, 2011 is exactly 888 days (including end date) from June 25, 2009.Youpiiii!! Again an Elvis connection since 8 is his number!! and 888 = 3x8 = 24 again a significant number! related to MJ , Elvis & Murray too!!
For those who haven't seen yet this photo-montage, enjoy watching/reading!!
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2017/mjelvisarealive03.jpg)
Simpa you are right she did say "We the jury in the above entitled ACTION"
Listen here 8-)!!!!!
verdict for dr. conrad murray- micheal jackson justice
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJYZDks2f7w&feature=feedu[/youtube]
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 05:07:31 PM
Are we really sure Michael is coming back? Like everyone in the family keeps saying "nothing will bring him back" :cry:
Please keep the faith; the family also says that Michael is dead and we know that is not true. If it makes you feel any better you can try to concentrate on Jermaine and LaToya's comments bout Michael being with them in the court room. Peace and LOVE to you MJFAN7 :)
Post by: Adi on November 07, 2011, 05:14:35 PM
It's also 333rd day of the year :)
AND 1 day before "Thriller" was released (30th November)
Don't give up.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 05:14:50 PM
Michael is ALIVE,he is watching us and WE HAVE TO BE STRONG :) !!!!!
We are a FAMILY ,his ARMY OF LOVE 8-) !!!!
The Universe and We, the People, are watching.
We affirm and decree Divine Justice on all levels, in all dimensions, in all dominions, for all beings.
This is not a revolution. This is our evolution! THIS IS IT!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dj-g1jNZI&feature=related[/youtube]
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 05:17:38 PM
Anyway, thanks Stranger (:
I'm not giving up. I'm just not sure if he's going to come back... /:
I'm still laughing about June 9th though. :lol:
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 05:20:58 PM
Why the case number is 073164--> 21--> 777?
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on November 07, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
This cant be fake..Michael would not send an innocent man to jail if he was alive.
He's guilty
Please Anna , keep the faith, we really being tested right now, here we see for ourselfs if we pass the test.....We have learned so much , way to much evidences to get out ever.
Keep in mind everything michael has given us as clues , like in the beginning TII and TS and Front and all the other things there are so much....... these are not conicidences, i mean all the clues they have given to us are really no coincidences and way to much to leave the hoax over this( a verdict) , wouldnt you think Michael have thought this all out.There are so much things we don't know now, but when the puzzle pieces all fall in place its going to be very clear i know.
LOVE to all my MJ Family , im happy to have the opportunity to meet you all, and i mean that from the bottom of my heart. :-*
Keeping our heads up, and holding eachothers and Michaels hand, Its all for love L.O.V.E
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 07, 2011, 05:34:15 PM
Harvey said it was strange that Ed didn´t ask for the judge for an acquittal.... )can´t remember how it´s called' that had something to do with too less evidence or something. Can anyone else remember that?
Another point he kept making was how Cooley didn't have Walgren next to him and speak more, since Walgren actually is the one that won the case.
Anyways, November 29th, 888th day inclusive, one day before the 888th day aka Thriller anniversary. Jacksons will probably speak so that might get mighty interesting. 3 weeks break for us now, lol.
@TS: I think there are some members that desperately need you right now. I saw many losing faith as if they dropped a bottle. Some apparently walk only by sight, not by faith.
Post by: Adi on November 07, 2011, 05:36:14 PM
The Dome Project was wrapped on June 9th 2009!!!
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00025360.html
Keep the faith....we are being given these dates in this dark time for a reason!
Post by: fordtocarr on November 07, 2011, 05:38:22 PM
But, I'm thinking that this is going to be a long and winding road still.
Arnie keeps talking about all these others that have to go down too.
LaToya does also.
Jermaine said today that this is just step ONE.
My writer friend Lynton Guest talks about the others that also have to go down.
The family talks about others too...
I just don't know about a BAM day..if it not just something we invented.
Really, who's to say that Michael didn't get away and has to stay away?
If there are all these others that have to fall, and they haven't even been arrested, or a case on anyone else, this could take the rest of MY life...and Michael's also.
I'm thinking if others have to fall, and this is step ONE, we have YEARS to go....
I'm exhausted...I'm getting too fat...I can't sleep...my blood pressure is up...and maybe believing is simply enough. Maybe it doesn't matter what the reasons for the hoax or when it will be over, because it's not in our hands, and maybe not Michael's either. He maybe away...safe, and others just taking down whoever, these steps have to be taken are taken.
It don't mean I give up.
It means, we have to LIVE and not live through Michael.
We can watch...wait and pray for his safety, but I can't help him. You can't help him.
But, I think I need help. LOL.
This too can be an addiction. It is mine.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 07, 2011, 05:39:10 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 05:42:43 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 05:44:10 PM
MJJ_Productions MJJ Productions Inc.
#BELIEVE
3 hours ago
Post by: curls on November 07, 2011, 05:45:35 PM
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 07, 2011, 05:53:18 PM
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 05:55:11 PM
TMZ posted a video of Flanny saying they would appeal the case. I dont know if I could handle that lol. They also said on HLN that Katherine's civil lawsuit against AEG would begin Sept. of 2012. Is this ever going to end!? I guess I'll be riding the hoax train until the wheels fall off!!
Post by: paula-c on November 07, 2011, 06:00:25 PM
Post by: ShyBleuEyes on November 07, 2011, 06:01:44 PM
I wanted this to share with you.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 07, 2011, 06:02:23 PM
I can't get the pages to load to read these comments, so forgive me if I post similar words.
But, I'm thinking that this is going to be a long and winding road still.
Arnie keeps talking about all these others that have to go down too.
LaToya does also.
Jermaine said today that this is just step ONE.
My writer friend Lynton Guest talks about the others that also have to go down.
The family talks about others too...
I just don't know about a BAM day..if it not just something we invented.
Really, who's to say that Michael didn't get away and has to stay away?
If there are all these others that have to fall, and they haven't even been arrested, or a case on anyone else, this could take the rest of MY life...and Michael's also.
I'm thinking if others have to fall, and this is step ONE, we have YEARS to go....
I'm exhausted...I'm getting too fat...I can't sleep...my blood pressure is up...and maybe believing is simply enough. Maybe it doesn't matter what the reasons for the hoax or when it will be over, because it's not in our hands, and maybe not Michael's either. He maybe away...safe, and others just taking down whoever, these steps have to be taken are taken.
It don't mean I give up.
It means, we have to LIVE and not live through Michael.
We can watch...wait and pray for his safety, but I can't help him. You can't help him.
But, I think I need help. LOL.
This too can be an addiction. It is mine.
Quote
But, I'm thinking that this is going to be a long and winding road still
Ofcourse this ADVENTURE is not over,it is much more,and until 21.12.2012 we have ONE MORE YEAR to DO SOMETHING!!!!
"Money and Fame are just illusions",just like AMERICAN DREAM IS!!!!!!!!
Anonymous Project Mayhem 2012: The End Of Fear
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3302jg2Rwbg&feature=socblog_th[/youtube]
http://galatorg.com/pm2012/pm2012.html (http://galatorg.com/pm2012/pm2012.html)
Post by: sandythyme on November 07, 2011, 06:04:23 PM
Post by: Adi on November 07, 2011, 06:06:50 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/MJJ_Productions/status/133638807919669267
WOW
:)
Post by: ilovemjforever on November 07, 2011, 06:08:03 PM
There is something we're missing, I just can't seem to figure out what and my brain is on overload with other stuff at the moment. A little push in the right direction TS? Remember the stroopwafels...Souza i think we are missing something,when Latoya said Micheal was in the courtroom with us,i took it that she meant physically in the courtroom,it might sound crazy but what if he is actually Murray,or maybe one of the jurors in disguise.I just cant overlook that statement by Latoya.I agree TS is really needed right know,are we any closer to level 7,TS?
Post by: Snoopy71 on November 07, 2011, 06:08:30 PM
typing/
#BELIEVE ;)
In Our Darkest Hour
In My Deepest Despair
Will You Still Care?
Will You Be There?
In My Trials
And My Tribulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain(s)
Through My Joy And My Sorrow
In The Promise Of Another Tomorrow
I'll Never Let You Part
For You're Always In My Heart.
bearhug
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 07, 2011, 06:09:55 PM
i was at the chat during the trial, and the date on the paper was incorrect so they change it by pen. John who was at the chat also pointed out that the paper was not official because of that, and i think hes right, in my country even criminals run free because of these mistakes. i don't know for the US but i believe John is right.
I wanted this to share with you.
That seems logical. I don't know how it works in California law, but can Chernoff file for mistrial now with that fact and for example the wrong name (Joseph instead of Joe)? I mean if they would and it would be made public that Murray walks free because Michael is not even called Joseph, the media and non-believers will HAVE to start doubting the rest, including AR and DC.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 07, 2011, 06:10:25 PM
Post by: scorpionchik on November 07, 2011, 06:13:24 PM
Post by: Adi on November 07, 2011, 06:13:59 PM
I have a husband who now thinks I'm crazier than ever, everything I say to him about MJ being alive sounds ridiculous as it comes out of my mouth, yet I believe it stronger than ever. I would not be able to convince myself he's dead no matter how hard I tried - that idea seems as ridiculous to me as him being alive does to my family. I feel it in every cell of my body. It sure is a weird feeling when events such as today's are going on around me.
Don't worry - I know exactly how you feel. I'm feeling the same today...I keep telling my husband that it's part of the grand plan of Michael...
He just smiles at me in a sorrowful manner and say's nothing....(mind you he was the one who rushed in this morning to wake me up to watch the verdict) :lol:
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 07, 2011, 06:20:00 PM
I thought that Murray could appeal on that basis too and brought it up in the chat. A possible problem with that would be that the defense didnt object to the name Michael Joseph Jackson at anytime during the trial. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not, but its something to consider. However, if he could appeal for that reason couldnt he also appeal because there wasnt any evidence presented that Michael (Joe or Joesph) was actually dead in the first place. None of the witnesses that allegedly saw the "body" were shown a picture of Michael and asked to verify him as the victim. Just something to think about.i was at the chat during the trial, and the date on the paper was incorrect so they change it by pen. John who was at the chat also pointed out that the paper was not official because of that, and i think hes right, in my country even criminals run free because of these mistakes. i don't know for the US but i believe John is right.
I wanted this to share with you.
That seems logical. I don't know how it works in California law, but can Chernoff file for mistrial now with that fact and for example the wrong name (Joseph instead of Joe)? I mean if they would and it would be made public that Murray walks free because Michael is not even called Joseph, the media and non-believers will HAVE to start doubting the rest, including AR and DC.
Post by: scorpionchik on November 07, 2011, 06:21:58 PM
Or, CM helped MJ to escape for a lot of $$$$ to spend couple of years in jail and Michael is not coming back.
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on November 07, 2011, 06:27:52 PM
and the OJ dude standing out there pouring a bottle of propofol out on himself and so called MJ fans laughing was very disrespectful. Its interesting that they even celebrate, they believe MJ is dead. When he does actually die, I won't be able to celebrate.
Conrad will get 4 years of probabtion or house arrest. I doubt jail. Hopefully MJ will be back by then. Maybe we created the Guilty verdict, maybe I did by making everything a joke :(. I'm sorry if so.
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on November 07, 2011, 06:39:51 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 07, 2011, 06:45:53 PM
It was like "RIP Michael Jackson. Conrad Murray is sacrificing for us. We lost a brother" or something like that... wtf? suspicious//
EDIT: I found it. They didn't delete it, I went to the wrong twitter. here it is:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/443271898.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1320714215&Signature=3BYlyPYuq1yuo%2FetqS3IcbsBTPs%3D)
RIP Michael Jackson. The jury found Conrad Murray GUILTY. Conrad Murray's sacrifice wasn't good enough for us. We lost a brother.
http://twitpic.com/7bwusa
Post by: airieslady on November 07, 2011, 06:51:09 PM
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 06:52:01 PM
The mistake on the jury verdict document which was made a point of has to be something too, like the Dome Project reference.
@Fordtocarr lmao @ "being exausted, getting too fat and cant sleep" lol. I don't know if you meant that to be amusing though :/ but dont forget to take care of yourself too. This whole thing does seem to be dragging on forever, but it isn't over just yet. The "BAM" day isn't something made up by us as Michael said it himself! And also TS reaffirmed this. The impact of the hoax and it's meaning wouldn't make a difference unless there is a comeback.
Some other thoughts that came to my mind when watching this was the verdict would have had to have been guilty. As someone else pointed out, the fans would have rioted, he gave them what they want. It could also have been needed to prove an innocent man with evidence proving doubt, can get convicted in the eyes of the media and 'justice' system; whilst also drawing attention to a major cause. The "Dr. Feelgood's" of hollywood and the world because all eyes are on them now. There definitely seems to be some kind of sting element here.
And yes TS your words would be of help now ;).
Post by: looking4truth on November 07, 2011, 07:09:31 PM
Just wanted to know what a kangaroo court means:
"A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to hear a full statement of the exact charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right not to incriminate oneself
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to control one's own defense
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right of appeal"
To me, it's pretty simple. This is a kangaroo court which equals to kangaroo verdict or in other words, fake court case=fake verdict. Now... whether there's a sting attached to it or not, I think only "tIme" (Michael) will tell. I know one thing this hasn't made me flinch at all.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 07:15:38 PM
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 07:25:22 PM
Post by: Dontwalkaway on November 07, 2011, 07:28:43 PM
Love, Light, Peace. michael-jackson/
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 07, 2011, 07:31:13 PM
Wrong name, wrong date, 32 stars, Murray sitting down while verdict was read and all the other clear BS the last couple of weeks scream hoax and Murray being a key player on Michael's side.
Completely off topic: TS, I sent you a pm with a technical question/dilemma I need your opinion on. In case you're lurking somewhere today or so, could you please log in and check it out? Thanks!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 07:39:29 PM
I know that Michael's, voice is God's voice, pleading with us to return to LOVE!
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on November 07, 2011, 07:42:24 PM
Keep watching, this isn't over. I'm not joking anymore in chat, as comforting as it may have become for some of us. This isn't a time to laugh, but a time to think hard. For those of you leaving the hoax site, I hope you find peace within yourselves in time. For those of us still with MJ, buckle up if you haven't already. We're in a long dark tunnel now, but soon the ride will reach a BeAM of light and that will undoubtedly be our time to throw our hands back up and scream in pure bliss! But during this time, I find it extremely appropriate to pray to whatever God or Messiah your heart follows, pray for yourself, pray for me, pray ofr us all, pray for Michael and his family, and pray for the world.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_dbDO9gfO4[/youtube]
Oh Jerusalem yeah, oh Jerusalem, oh Jerusalem, oh Jerusalem...
Realizing that there's no place else to go
And there's nobody I know who can help me
Text book solutions are so improbable
Cause everybody else is just as empty
Naked as the day that I was born, I tried to hide
...behind education and philosophy
Hopeless explanation to describe a situation
I can't see because the world's on top of me
Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me
From the body of this death
Freeing me from dust, and the superficial trust
Of an enemy that seeks to take my breath
Failing to connect, cause I'm morally defect
By reason of the God inside my head
Causing me to see, only what pertains to me
Believing I'm alive when I'm still dead
Limited to earth, unable to find out my worth
Cause I... can't see past my own vanity
If I'm not included, then I just have to remove it
From my mind because it has to be in sanity
Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me
From the body of this death
Can I even factor, that I've only been an actor
In this staged interpretation of this day
Focused on the shadow, with my back turned to the light
Too intelligent to see it's me in the way
What a paradox, having God trapped in a box
All this time professing to be spiritual
Naturally pretending, that I'm actually defending
God through my facade don't need material
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem, keeping thee from perfection
Submit to truth, leave the deception of thy youth
So we could walk in the council of authority
Forget the proof, our generation so aloof
Only follow in the steps of the majority
Trust in the Lord, with all thy heart
And lay not to thine, oh an understanding in all thy ways
Acknowledge Him, and He shall correct our paths
Be not wise in thine own eyes and you can follow him
We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them
Who religion tells us that we should ignore
Perpetrating we're in covenant with Him
Exposed by the very things that we adore
We grin and shake hands, then lay ambush for the man
Who has a different point of view then us
Infuriated cause he doesn't understand
Bringing up those things we don't want to discuss
Why still do evil, we don't know how to do good
Walking on in darkness running from the light, ey
Led to believe, because we live in neighborhoods
Telling us what's going on will be alright
Oh so repressed, so convinced that I was blessed
When I played with my game of Monopoly
Oh to suggest, that my life is still a mess
Who reveal the pride I'm hiding is what's stopping me
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem keeping them from perfection
Abide in me and I in you, as the branch cannot bare
...fruit of itself except in the vine
I am the vine, ye are the branches, He's in live in me
And I in him, the same bring forth much fruit
Without me, you can do nothing
Oh Jerusalem, you're traditions have deceived you
I've chosen you, you haven't chosen me
Do whatsoever, you asking my name he may give to you
But in vain they call my name
teaching doctrines just the same
Justified among themselves
But God know with the heart, what man esteemed as smart
Is an abomination to Emmanuel
Just repent, turn from selfish motivation
So iniquity will not cause your demise
Make you a new heart and a new spirit
...for why would he die
Oh Jerusalem, please tell me why
I have no pleasure in the death of him to die
Says the Lord God where forth turn yourselves and live
It's not the talkers, but the walkers and his word
Are the only ones the Father will forgive
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem, providing you no protection
Oh Jerusalem...
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 07:48:33 PM
Post by: paula-c on November 07, 2011, 07:57:16 PM
Conrad Murray's Lawyer
I'm 'Very Disappointed' I'm 'Very Disappointed'
We WILL Appeal We Will Appeal
It Is not for for Dr. Conrad Murray 's defense team -- J. Conrad Murray 's defense team - J. Michael Flanagan claims there are already plans to appeal today's "guilty" verdict. Michael Flanagan Claims There Are Already Plans to appeal today's "guilty" verdict.
Flanagan tells us, he's still "very disappointed" in the decision. Flanagan tells us, he's still "very disappointed" in the decision.
http://translate.google.co.ve/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tmz.com%2F
Post by: MsTrinity333 on November 07, 2011, 07:59:24 PM
FAKE FAKE FAKE...we knew this was a possibility, how do we really know if he will go to jail or not...it's all PART OF THE SHOW!^^ Exactly!!
My first impressions after the verdict:
1. Did I hear well or...?
Did anyone else hear when the lady read the verdict she said: "We the jury in the above entitled ACTION"
During MJ 2005 trial when the verdict was read, the lady said: "We the Jury in the above entitled CASE"! and not the action!!
I caught the Alleged Victum... smiley_spider
Is this of relevance?
Are both expressions correct from a juridical point of view?
2. Then Murray really seemed ok, I mean, he cried during other not very significant days of the trial and now during the MOST significant day of the trial, when he's found guilty, he didn't cry.
3. Then I have this feeling that most of you, beLIEvers have had flashback when you saw Murray with handcuffs, just like Michael back in 2005!
YEP! lolol/
4. 29th = 2+9 = 11
November 11th month
year 2011!
So here we have: 11-11-11 !!
YEP... and as someone mentioned 333 also.Quote from: AndreeaNov 29, 2011 is exactly 888 days (including end date) from June 25, 2009.Youpiiii!! Again an Elvis connection since 8 is his number!! and 888 = 3x8 = 24 again a significant number! related to MJ , Elvis & Murray too!!
For those who haven't seen yet this photo-montage, enjoy watching/reading!!
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2017/mjelvisarealive03.jpg)
party/ /woohoo/ party/ GUILTY... I was hoping for this myself; and DEAD OR ALIVE the UNbelievers need Justice, anything else and that crowd outside would have gotten ugly. I believe there's still things going on behind the scenes sting wise.
Juno? Juni?; hang in there. TS also said in one of his posts we must follow the TRUE ARK; and he wasn't talking about a boat. He meant the true Ark of the Covenant. Blessings. bearhug
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 07:59:59 PM
I felt this was appropriate. After that Guilty verdict was read, it began to slowly seep inside me that this is for a much bigger reason than I had originally thought. As I've said, it disturbs me the way the Non-Believers celebrated this man's conviction. No justice was served today for Michael in death. "IF" Michael is "dead", he is just as accountable for his fate as Conrad Murray is. There is no time for celebration right now. Not for us believers, and not for non-believers. Listen to this song, because every word completes my thoughts.
Keep watching, this isn't over. I'm not joking anymore in chat, as comforting as it may have become for some of us. This isn't a time to laugh, but a time to think hard. For those of you leaving the hoax site, I hope you find peace within yourselves in time. For those of us still with MJ, buckle up if you haven't already. We're in a long dark tunnel now, but soon the ride will reach a BeAM of light and that will undoubtedly be our time to throw our hands back up and scream in pure bliss! But during this time, I find it extremely appropriate to pray to whatever God or Messiah your heart follows, pray for yourself, pray for me, pray ofr us all, pray for Michael and his family, and pray for the world.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_dbDO9gfO4[/youtube]
Oh Jerusalem yeah, oh Jerusalem, oh Jerusalem, oh Jerusalem...
Realizing that there's no place else to go
And there's nobody I know who can help me
Text book solutions are so improbable
Cause everybody else is just as empty
Naked as the day that I was born, I tried to hide
...behind education and philosophy
Hopeless explanation to describe a situation
I can't see because the world's on top of me
Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me
From the body of this death
Freeing me from dust, and the superficial trust
Of an enemy that seeks to take my breath
Failing to connect, cause I'm morally defect
By reason of the God inside my head
Causing me to see, only what pertains to me
Believing I'm alive when I'm still dead
Limited to earth, unable to find out my worth
Cause I... can't see past my own vanity
If I'm not included, then I just have to remove it
From my mind because it has to be in sanity
Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me
From the body of this death
Can I even factor, that I've only been an actor
In this staged interpretation of this day
Focused on the shadow, with my back turned to the light
Too intelligent to see it's me in the way
What a paradox, having God trapped in a box
All this time professing to be spiritual
Naturally pretending, that I'm actually defending
God through my facade don't need material
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem, keeping thee from perfection
Submit to truth, leave the deception of thy youth
So we could walk in the council of authority
Forget the proof, our generation so aloof
Only follow in the steps of the majority
Trust in the Lord, with all thy heart
And lay not to thine, oh an understanding in all thy ways
Acknowledge Him, and He shall correct our paths
Be not wise in thine own eyes and you can follow him
We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them
Who religion tells us that we should ignore
Perpetrating we're in covenant with Him
Exposed by the very things that we adore
We grin and shake hands, then lay ambush for the man
Who has a different point of view then us
Infuriated cause he doesn't understand
Bringing up those things we don't want to discuss
Why still do evil, we don't know how to do good
Walking on in darkness running from the light, ey
Led to believe, because we live in neighborhoods
Telling us what's going on will be alright
Oh so repressed, so convinced that I was blessed
When I played with my game of Monopoly
Oh to suggest, that my life is still a mess
Who reveal the pride I'm hiding is what's stopping me
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem keeping them from perfection
Abide in me and I in you, as the branch cannot bare
...fruit of itself except in the vine
I am the vine, ye are the branches, He's in live in me
And I in him, the same bring forth much fruit
Without me, you can do nothing
Oh Jerusalem, you're traditions have deceived you
I've chosen you, you haven't chosen me
Do whatsoever, you asking my name he may give to you
But in vain they call my name
teaching doctrines just the same
Justified among themselves
But God know with the heart, what man esteemed as smart
Is an abomination to Emmanuel
Just repent, turn from selfish motivation
So iniquity will not cause your demise
Make you a new heart and a new spirit
...for why would he die
Oh Jerusalem, please tell me why
I have no pleasure in the death of him to die
Says the Lord God where forth turn yourselves and live
It's not the talkers, but the walkers and his word
Are the only ones the Father will forgive
Oh Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness
That thou may be saved from thy deception
How long, shall thy face those lies within thee
Oh Jerusalem, providing you no protection
Oh Jerusalem...
God Bless you Moon...we've been waiting for you to see the "LIGHT"!! Please know that you are LOVE and LIGHT...embrace it and know it for the truth...always follow your natural GOD given "INSTINCT" Nourish the LOVE!
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on November 07, 2011, 08:07:56 PM
And Purelove, I was thinking about you today! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR ALWAYS STAYING SO DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE!
I'm trying to read the forum and watch TII on VH1 right now. its nearly impossible to do!!!!! don't try this at home lol
Post by: RK on November 07, 2011, 08:14:00 PM
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 07, 2011, 08:14:24 PM
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 08:17:09 PM
thank you mjj!!!!! That means the world to me. I LOVE YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!!
And Purelove, I was thinking about you today! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR ALWAYS STAYING SO DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE!
I'm trying to read the forum and watch TII on VH1 right now. its nearly impossible to do!!!!! don't try this at home lol
Thank you so much hon. I also admire your dedication, strength and positivity. That is what we need a lot at the moment. Being positive and strong. The song you posted is amazing and the lyrics are so meaningful. Thank you for posting it. And I LOVE YOU MORE. bearhug
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on November 07, 2011, 08:21:21 PM
Due to lack of sleep I will not post what I am thinking but I will come back after I have slept.
i hope you sleep well. i admire your dedication, you are a beautiful person.
Post by: paula-c on November 07, 2011, 08:21:41 PM
Due to lack of sleep I will not post what I am thinking but I will come back after I have slept.
I would like to read your opinion 8)
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 08:23:07 PM
thank you mjj!!!!! That means the world to me. I LOVE YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!!@ Beautiful Moon...see what just happened? You just made a change, and you are now officially helping to heal the world! Live, LOVE dear sister. It is up to us to keep the LOVE alive!! The "vibrations of LOVE" are resonating with the Universe! our voices are being heard!
And Purelove, I was thinking about you today! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR ALWAYS STAYING SO DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE!
I'm trying to read the forum and watch TII on VH1 right now. its nearly impossible to do!!!!! don't try this at home lol
I LOVE you so very much!
Blessings LOVE and LIGHT to all!
Post by: fordtocarr on November 07, 2011, 08:33:15 PM
I know this is big...I've always said that Michael couldn't be funding all this himself no matter how much money he has. Not the memorial...all the players and all the years. He couldn't make all the not so legals LEGAL. The gov has to be behind this...and I also figured that as he picked this medical field to hoax in it must be medical.
But, really, I don't think he PICKED a medical field to hoax in, but, either joined in a sting, or got help and got one set up. Like maybe the family DID, or others intervene and went to the gov and thus, sting.
Because, we KNOW one thing. Michael is ALIVE.
And I believe that the court is a hoax, because NO court is a circus as this has been. I don't know how it works to have the court not be real though.
I think what overwhelms me is thinking that we'll go on like we have for these 2 years, maybe 2 or 3 or 10 years more!!!
That there will be court case after court case...media...the "red carpet" for the Jackson's, on and on over and over..hearing all this crap we hate hearing about death and all that even knowing it's not a real death.
Maybe I'm just stressed by today, I NEVER expected a bam out of it even once. I didn't care about the verdict til 3 days ago...and then really figured that it will be whatever Michael wants. Although I thought Murray'd go free because of the documentary.
I appreciate all of you and your faith and strength. I feel strong in my heart and knowledge, but my emotions are just TIRED. I don't need convincing of anything, as I'm a believer to my undoing ;)
I guess I just want to say..THANK YOU MY FAMILY FOR BEING HERE !!
LOVE to you all.
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 08:38:08 PM
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
Post by: Suzy7 on November 07, 2011, 08:42:14 PM
And yes, Murray has to be a key player in this hoax, just as the doctor was in 'The Illusionist'.
Now slightly off topic:
TheMoonIsDancing and Mjj4ever777. Those lyrics are amazing and so true as it speaks to this generation and state of the world specifically. "We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them" is a perfect explanation of the public and fans outside of the court house jumping in glee. This isn't a time for celebration if infact he was dead and a man, whether long enough or not, would be going to prison. Many of MJs fans do NOT understand his message and most people never will. It's a sad reality. How many leaders must we have preaching the same message do we need before we "get" it? Maybe we dont or wont because not everyone cares. Realistically speaking, nothing will stop the wars, killing, famine, abuse and evil people in general. Those people who cause these things will exist as long as we are here on THIS earth. And only God can fix these things, Michael's influence will hopefully help awaken most.
Post by: ilovemjforever on November 07, 2011, 08:51:07 PM
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOLI have to say what a lovely and very inspiring post.thank you mjj4ever777,that was so beautiful.
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on November 07, 2011, 08:52:14 PM
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOL
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
I could not have said this better myself Sister and agree with all of you.....We are Michael's Army of LOVE and it's time for us to step up and help our beloved Michael. He said it himself in "CRY" I can't do this by myself, I'm gonna need somebody's help! He needs his Army to help him bring LOVE back into our hearts....our lives...and our planet! We can do this for Michael...we can do this for all of us!
I cried all the way to get my children from school listening to "Hold my Hand" and "Cry" I had such an emotion come over me that I can not describe....I was so filled with LOVE For God and Michael....they were tears of joy...I have never experienced anything like that before in my life.
I love you all so very much and thank God everyday for bringing us together.....you are my family and together as one...there's nothing that can't be done!!
Michael....I love you so very much and THANK YOU for all you have and are doing for us...we get it Michael and we are ready to hold your hand ....and bring LOVE back to our plant!! I LOVE YOU Always & Forever!!!!!!
LOVE....HUGS....& BLESSINGS to YOU ALL!! bearhug
Post by: mikeyslittlehoaxer on November 07, 2011, 08:53:03 PM
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 07, 2011, 09:00:18 PM
Post by: TheMoonIsDancing on November 07, 2011, 09:01:36 PM
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
You're a brave one! My husband knows my every thought about the hoax, but thankfully I married a very openminded man :). I have told my brother that I believe Mike is alive, and my bro gives me full support. I have hinted to my mother that I believe MJ is alive though I don't tell her how I completely feel. I haven't told my father or sister because i'm afraid they will judge me harshly for it.
I salute you all for having courage to speak so openly about the truth of the hoax. i unfortunately have not reached that height in my personal hoax journey.
however, i am still 777% onboard with Michael's adventure.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 09:04:40 PM
All I know for sure is that if it turned out in the end/beginning, that I am totally crazy, well at least I can Honestly say that I am Happy with who I am I have LOVE in abundance in my life, and I have had the pleasure to help many learn the importance of LOVE on this journey...I know I made a difference in my small way!
I Love you all!
Post by: BeTheChange on November 07, 2011, 09:12:08 PM
It's like we need a huddle or something cause people are swaying all over the place. If the trial isn't it, and it doesn't look like it is...I truly hope that our 'army' is strong enough to withstand what else may be coming our way. Everyone has GOT to take that leap of faith and beLIEve...for your own sanity you do...because until you do, you will be up, down and all over the place. Trust me, I know cause I've been there and can sincerely say that once you fully beLIEve....there's no going back 'into the trenches', no matter what happens. Why? Because you've decided.
'Mankind' has been waiting for a 'saviour' for two thousand and eleven years. When compared to infinity, which is God's 'time clock', that is but the blink of an eye. How much has 'mankind' SEEN that could cause them to doubt 'God'? Yet, 'wars' and 'violence' and 'hatred' and 'TIME' have not shaken their faith...no matter what comes.
THAT'S the type of FAITH that our 'army' needs. We're gonna fall from time to time, we're gonna get impatient with the 'mission', we may get frustrated with each other, or have 'weak' moments....but we need to keep moving forward, together. Dust off the bad and allow the good to motivate us. Mike's given us SO much to be motivated and inspired about these past 2+ years...grab hold of ALL that and let it sustain you in 'dark' moments.
Everybody say that time is borrowed,
And hangin' down your head just ain't no good
And if you dare to rise above tomorrow
Just give yourself a chance,
Fight the circumstance,
Rise and do it again
Keeping your head up to the sky!
Keeping your mind to stay alive,
Give me your wings so we can fly
Keeping your head up to the sky,
Or we can just rise up, tell me now
Give me your wings so we can fly!
I need your love
I need you now
I need your light right here today
I need you now
Wishing you all light and love tonight.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: iamamjbeliever on November 07, 2011, 09:14:19 PM
People I'm BEGGING you all,DON'T GIVE UP,PLEASE !!! Not now after more than 2 years,please :( !!!
Michael is ALIVE,he is watching us and WE HAVE TO BE STRONG :) !!!!!
We are a FAMILY ,his ARMY OF LOVE 8-) !!!!
The Universe and We, the People, are watching.
We affirm and decree Divine Justice on all levels, in all dimensions, in all dominions, for all beings.
This is not a revolution. This is our evolution! THIS IS IT!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dj-g1jNZI&feature=related[/youtube]
did they get permission to used mj's cry video?
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 09:18:00 PM
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
I LOVE YOU Purelove!!! We've all gone BONKERS!! lolol/ LOVE it!! Or are we truly the smart ones, cause we are not "going with the flow"??? Most of the world is asleep, we are the few and far between, that have "awakened" to the "TRUTH"!
Never lose Faith Purelove...know that you are LOVED!!!!! Be LOVE...Be The "Change".
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on November 07, 2011, 09:20:55 PM
I also see a change happening in my hubby for the good, so the change is starting! I just can't wait to see my sisters and others jaws drop and eyes bug out afraid/ when Michael comes home after his long journey of helping to save the world.....and they have to say..."guess you were right" /toldya/
We might be Nuts.....but we are a whole bunch of Nuts....and together we can make that change!!! bearhug
Post by: neversaynever on November 07, 2011, 09:47:22 PM
So indirectly, you can count this as a message from Mike. I believe this is all part of the plan. Those of you loosing faith - don't. There is more to this than we think. The whole switch in Michael's addiction by several people including Arnie, have me thinking there HAS to be more. ( not to mention the sham of a trial)
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 07, 2011, 09:54:51 PM
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 07, 2011, 09:57:11 PM
Post by: TS_comments on November 07, 2011, 10:00:14 PM
Anyway, as far as the 6-9-09 date: clear back in 2009, I wrote about the significance of the Dome Project “ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0)}.
GINAFELICIA and looking4truth had excellent comments about the Kangaroo Court {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336)}. Also, the toy elephant was still in plain sight, while the zoo verdict was being read {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00)}.
And did anyone notice that the verdict was not only on the date 11-7 (1+1+7 = 9); but the time was also 1:17? I guess this is just another one of the million ko-inki-dinks! suspicious// You can see the 1:17 time on HLN {http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog)}. You can also see it on this thread, from Suzy7 posted at 18 minutes and 15 seconds (the hour was 1 PM CA time); no doubt it took at least 15 seconds to write “Verdict is guilty” and get it posted, especially since the forum was running slow at the time—as noted by a few others on this thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261)}.
Speaking of verdict times, did we ever figure out the exact minute for the 2005 verdict? And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 10:05:48 PM
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
I LOVE YOU Purelove!!! We've all gone BONKERS!! lolol/ LOVE it!! Or are we truly the smart ones, cause we are not "going with the flow"??? Most of the world is asleep, we are the few and far between, that have "awakened" to the "TRUTH"!
Never lose Faith Purelove...know that you are LOVED!!!!! Be LOVE...Be The "Change".
I LOVE YOU MORE mjj4ever777. bearhug According to some, we are the smart ones and according to some we are bonkers. I don't care what people say about me. I know who I am and I'm proud of being myself like the way I am.
Know that you are appreciated and loved mjj4ever777. We will be making that change all together. ;)
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 10:08:52 PM
Looking4truth good post about Kangaroo Court, as it's very relevant now. The Kangaroo Court definition states everything including, obviously, that the verdict is predetermined. Meaning EVERYone involved knew the eventual verdict, hence Murray's lack of emotion. Flanagan was asked by an HLN reporter was he shocked by the verdict, and he said "no". If he was really fighting for Murray's innocence, unless he feels he did a crappy job, it was known all along. They also said "alledged" victim and "alledged" date of death when reading the verdict, hadn't heard that before. Not only didn't he stand, but he sat while being arrested. Also, watch other verdicts being read, they DO say "action" vs. case as the OJ trial is an example.
And yes, Murray has to be a key player in this hoax, just as the doctor was in 'The Illusionist'. My only issue is all of the civil suits pending and why against the people who are involved, i.e AEG/Murray? So perhaps TS can answer that? :)
Now completely off topic:
TheMoonIsDancing and Mjj4ever777. Those lyrics are amazing and so true as it speaks to this generation and state of the world specifically. "We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them" is a perfect explanation of the public and fans outside of the court house jumping in glee. This isn't a time for celebration if infact he was dead and a man, whether long enough or not, would be going to prison. Many of MJs fans do NOT understand his message and most people never will. It's a sad reality. How many leaders must we have preaching the same message do we need before we "get" it? Maybe we dont or wont because not everyone cares. Realistically speaking, nothing will stop the wars, killing, famine, abuse and evil people in general. Those people who cause these things will exist as long as we are here on THIS earth. And if a God exists only he can fix these things, Michael's influence will hopefully help awaken most.
People I'm BEGGING you all,DON'T GIVE UP,PLEASE !!! Not now after more than 2 years,please :( !!!
Michael is ALIVE,he is watching us and WE HAVE TO BE STRONG :) !!!!!
We are a FAMILY ,his ARMY OF LOVE 8-) !!!!
The Universe and We, the People, are watching.
We affirm and decree Divine Justice on all levels, in all dimensions, in all dominions, for all beings.
This is not a revolution. This is our evolution! THIS IS IT!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dj-g1jNZI&feature=related[/youtube]
did they get permission to used mj's cry video?
I bet Michael is behind this event!! This video is showing what we need to do...all join hands on 11/11/11... We need to "collectively" concentrate on sending our LOVE vibrations out into the atmosphere! It is all about the power of "Collective" LOVE!!! there is power in numbers, and although I don't like the word "power" when it is for LOVE, it can't be negative!. So...Imagine if ALL of Michael's "Fans", Believers and non Believers, got together at the same time, to send our LOVE out to the universe, for the LOVE of Michael? We could show him that we can mend fences now that the verdict is in. They have their Justice, now it is time for all of us to let Michael know that he didn't do this in vain...that some of us actually understand the Bigger Picture.
We need to join together in solidarity...as long as there is division, there can't be LOVE!! It is up to us to mend the "fences" and show some Unity. 11/11/11 is a powerful day for humanity, for those open to LOVE...the numerology does mean something...people are going to become more open to LOVE...we truly are evolving into a new age...The age of LOVE and PEACE...Those who don't BELIEVE, are only letting their FEAR stop them! It is up to you to break free and reclaim your life!!
I hope more will open their hearts to TRUTH!!
Thank everyone for all the beautiful replies... MJ_forever...You made me cry...You understand!!!!! When you finally understand...there is no turning back...Nothing can shake your Faith...You just "KNOW".
I thank all of you for being who you are, but know that at the root of things, we truly are all ONE! The Universe is Vast, and Earth is just a speck, in the Big Picture! this journey is "Mind" blowing and it is Beautiful... LOVE is the answer!
Post by: PureLove on November 07, 2011, 10:13:41 PM
Alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson, alleged date of June 25th! [/b]
Alleged: Represented as existing or as being as described but not so proved; supposed.
In other words they say. "SUPPOSED victim Michael JOSEPH Jackson." Then they will be saying: "The victim was supposed to be Michael Joseph Jackson but it wasn't him." lolol/
Post by: ~Souza~ on November 07, 2011, 10:14:34 PM
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
If you want it, come and get it! If you need it, better hurry... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 07, 2011, 10:17:35 PM
Nearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Anyway, as far as the 6-9-09 date: clear back in 2009, I wrote about the significance of the Dome Project “ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0)}.
GINAFELICIA and looking4truth had excellent comments about the Kangaroo Court {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336)}. Also, the toy elephant was still in plain sight, while the zoo verdict was being read {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00)}.
And did anyone notice that the verdict was not only on the date 11-7 (1+1+7 = 9); but the time was also 1:17? I guess this is just another one of the million ko-inki-dinks! suspicious// You can see the 1:17 time on HLN {http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog)}. You can also see it on this thread, from Suzy7 posted at 18 minutes and 15 seconds (the hour was 1 PM CA time); no doubt it took at least 15 seconds to write “Verdict is guilty” and get it posted, especially since the forum was running slow at the time—as noted by a few others on this thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261)}.
Speaking of verdict times, did we ever figure out the exact minute for the 2005 verdict? And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
TS, thank you for posting, I have noticed, and remembered what you have said.. I have never lost faith, and I know Michael will come back.. I want to thank you for taking your time to give everyone a boost, and having patience with us. It is not easy to keep faith all the time, it is easier to be negative than being positive. There has been so many clues from Jermaine and La Toya bless them. blessings.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 10:21:56 PM
Well, I slept through all the drama. I thought Murray would have gotten a not guilty, but nothing changes for me with the guilty verdict. This doesn't change one iota all the inconsistencies and general weirdness we've observed the past two + years. Only difference for us who have been vocal about the hoax in our real lives is that we get to have our family, friends and work mates consider us extreme odd balls. No biggie for me. It will just make BAM all the more spectacular. Keep the faith family.
You slept and missed it but I forgot the verdict was going to be given today. :lol: I was that sure Murray was going to be found guilty and I even forgot about the date.
My own family, except my mom already knows that I'm crazy. :lol: ( My mom is a believer too but she loses her faith so easily and I get pissed at her for being a drama queen :evil: ) Believe it or not, we are all bonkers which is good if you ask me. I've never been a "normal" person. I used to wear boots in the middle of summer which was 45C when I was a kid, I played football, I was playing with swords and toy cars. I wasn't even normal when I was a little girl and my family doesn't expect me to be normal now. They already accepted my craziness. Their face expressions were so amazing when they saw my first tat and the red hair color I dyed recently. :lol: They do not say anything to my face but I definitely know what they're thinking about me. My brother and his wife thinks that I lost it long ago but with Michael's "death" I lost my little brain completely. :mrgreen: My friends that I told about this hoax also thinks that I'm a nutcase. WHO CARES?! I don't. I'm just waiting patiently for THE DAY to come, to see their faces which will be like >>> :shock: and scream that all the BEST people are bonkers! albino/ :mrgreen:
I LOVE YOU Purelove!!! We've all gone BONKERS!! lolol/ LOVE it!! Or are we truly the smart ones, cause we are not "going with the flow"??? Most of the world is asleep, we are the few and far between, that have "awakened" to the "TRUTH"!
Never lose Faith Purelove...know that you are LOVED!!!!! Be LOVE...Be The "Change".
I LOVE YOU MORE mjj4ever777. bearhug According to some, we are the smart ones and according to some we are bonkers. I don't care what people say about me. I know who I am and I'm proud of being myself like the way I am.
Know that you are appreciated and loved mjj4ever777. We will be making that change all together. ;)
awww... Thank you! I'm just doing what I'm suppose to be doing! You are a Blessing...When you finally realize who you are...there is no turning back! Blessings
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 10:27:31 PM
After reading some posts, it's like we were on the battlefield today and all of a sudden some of the 'army' began retreating back into the trenches. At one point, while watching the verdict, I literally thought that I was gonna stop breathing...I don't even know what I was feeling exactly...and it would be hard to explain. But while I can't make 'sense' of it all and have no clue what the full impact of this verdict will be... at NO point did I interpret what I was watching to mean that Mike is dead.
It's like we need a huddle or something cause people are swaying all over the place. If the trial isn't it, and it doesn't look like it is...I truly hope that our 'army' is strong enough to withstand what else may be coming our way. Everyone has GOT to take that leap of faith and beLIEve...for your own sanity you do...because until you do, you will be up, down and all over the place. Trust me, I know cause I've been there and can sincerely say that once you fully beLIEve....there's no going back 'into the trenches', no matter what happens. Why? Because you've decided.
'Mankind' has been waiting for a 'saviour' for two thousand and eleven years. When compared to infinity, which is God's 'time clock', that is but the blink of an eye. How much has 'mankind' SEEN that could cause them to doubt 'God'? Yet, 'wars' and 'violence' and 'hatred' and 'TIME' have not shaken their faith...no matter what comes.
THAT'S the type of FAITH that our 'army' needs. We're gonna fall from time to time, we're gonna get impatient with the 'mission', we may get frustrated with each other, or have 'weak' moments....but we need to keep moving forward, together. Dust off the bad and allow the good to motivate us. Mike's given us SO much to be motivated and inspired about these past 2+ years...grab hold of ALL that and let it sustain you in 'dark' moments.
Everybody say that time is borrowed,
And hangin' down your head just ain't no good
And if you dare to rise above tomorrow
Just give yourself a chance,
Fight the circumstance,
Rise and do it again
Keeping your head up to the sky!
Keeping your mind to stay alive,
Give me your wings so we can fly
Keeping your head up to the sky,
Or we can just rise up, tell me now
Give me your wings so we can fly!
I need your love
I need you now
I need your light right here today
I need you now
Wishing you all light and love tonight.
With L.O.V.E. always.
All I have to say is /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ I LOVE YOU!!!!!! I can feel your passion...Bless You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: emeraldcity on November 07, 2011, 10:29:10 PM
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOL
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Thank you so much mjj4eva777 for such an inspiring message, full of LOVE and HOPE for a better future. I have been away from this site for a while after my father passed away in June, but since then I have had a spiritual awakening and your words truly resonate with me. I believe Michael is God's messenger and that he is being used for a very special purpose at this particular point in Earth's history. Now is the time to choose LOVE and positive energy over FEAR and negative energy. This is the only way to raise our Vibration to one that is in harmony with the Law of LOVE. Let's all keep the faith and let LOVE be the motivation for all we do. Emerald xxxxxx
Post by: BeTheChange on November 07, 2011, 10:30:17 PM
No 'hints' about level 7 though, huh? lol I know, I know...it will come when it is time.
I'm here for the long haul...no matter what.
With L.O.V.E. always.
P.S. I love you too mjj4ever!!!!! Light and love...tonight and always.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 07, 2011, 10:49:19 PM
@TS: I think there are some members that desperately need you right now. I saw many losing faith as if they dropped a bottle. Some apparently walk only by sight, not by faith.
having faith in things that you dont understand and don't make sense, is the truest manifestation of faith...
keep strong everyone!
if you need to boost your faith after the verdict refresh yourself with this page.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 10:52:16 PM
The mere fact that they didn't ask Murray to stand when they read the verdict, proves this isn't real! LOL
Don't give up now family...the next phase will be awakening humanity to the Truth! With ever negative thought you have, you are feeding the "FEAR". Until you can Believe 100% in something, you are living with FEAR. This journey takes extreme "Faith". Michael said this was all for LOVE, yet most don't understand that this is the most important part of all of this! Listen to Michael's pleas in his lyrics. Michael didn't write about hoaxing his death in his lyrics, he wrote about LOVE! We all need to rekindle the flame of life...LOVE! Talk about it with your families, nourish it in your life and LOVE will grow! When you walk down the street, smile at people, wish them a beautiful day...Be positive, always look at the bright side, don't let the negative forces in. Say No to fear once and for all! When you make a conscious effort to do this, you then create it, and it spreads to others....We need to concentrate on the LOVE!!! Michael is counting on us to understand this...the world is changing...are you going to change and move forward to the next phase, or are you going to stay "trapped" inside the darkness, following the other lost souls. I know you all have the LOVE inside of you, because otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. Michael brought us together because of his LOVE for us, not because he wanted to Just entertain us!
We know that there are many layers to this hoax, but the LOVE part is what we must all strive for if we are going to make a difference!It is so sad that we have all lost our will to really LIVE! The Negative energy is everywhere, Fear is everywhere and until we can break free and reverse the negative energy cycle, we have no chance of making a change! The positive energy must outnumber the negative. LOVE must eradicate the FEAR!!!
If you have negativity and fear in your life, you are not living the life God intended you too! FEAR is an epidemic of epic proportions! Where is the LOVE??? Where is our Faith??, Where is our Innocence?? It is there buried in your soul waiting for you to release it! You have a choice of which path you take...you are the master of your mind! Think LOVE and LIVE LOVE...BELIEVE i it and you will be healing the world!!!!
I LOVE you all so very much, I pray you find the LOVE inside and bring yourselves Back To LIFE!
@Applehead...that 11/11/11 video says a lot doesn't it? I LOVE You...we will get through one of these days! lol I will never give up on this mission of LOVE...our evolution has begun...it will happen.
Thank you so much mjj4eva777 for such an inspiring message, full of LOVE and HOPE for a better future. I have been away from this site for a while after my father passed away in June, but since then I have had a spiritual awakening and your words truly resonate with me. I believe Michael is God's messenger and that he is being used for a very special purpose at this particular point in Earth's history. Now is the time to choose LOVE and positive energy over FEAR and negative energy. This is the only way to raise our Vibration to one that is in harmony with the Law of LOVE. Let's all keep the faith and let LOVE be the motivation for all we do. Emerald xxxxxx
I am so sorry for your loss Emerald! I can see you now understand that sometimes in our "life" we must suffer, before we can see the truth. Everyone's journey is different here, but our goal will always be the same..Pure LOVE! I look forward to sharing more with you as we continue on this journey! I LOVE YOU..we are ONE!!! LOVE and LIGHT...You are a Blessing!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 11:02:25 PM
@TS: I think there are some members that desperately need you right now. I saw many losing faith as if they dropped a bottle. Some apparently walk only by sight, not by faith.
having faith in things that you dont understand and don't make sense, is the truest manifestation of faith...
keep strong everyone!
if you need to boot your faith after the verdict refresh yourself with this page.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php
You hit the nail on the head Aussie!!!! God Bless you for getting it!! "Think Different"!! If you don't Believe in the UNBELIEVABLE...then you aren't truly Believing...This is about Faith, Trust, and LOVE...all the things "Humanity" has Lost...I feel blessed to be a part of History...I Believe wholeheartedly that Michael is the "Jesus" of our time...What I "FEEL" I know is real...and I feel Pure LOVE... a LOVE that I have looked for all of my Life...I now "Understand my Life"...LIVE, LAUGH and LOVE!!!
Post by: Adi on November 07, 2011, 11:11:00 PM
And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
Thanks for dropping by TS...I think it was definitely needed today
bearhug
Post by: beLIEving101 on November 07, 2011, 11:12:33 PM
Like many, I believe this isn’t just a hoax and movie, I think it’s a detailed and complex project, a risky one at that but a necessary one. Assuming there is a sting in place, no one knows the specifics, the media, pharmaceutical industry seem likely targets but no one knows exactly how this plan is all going to come into fruition.
I don’t think it’s time to lose any faith now. It looks like everything is moving as planned.
Regarding the verdict, this was the most plausible scenario. I think Michael can prove more of a point with Murray found guilty, also if you watch the entire trial, it was evident to me Walgren had the better case and his execution was perfect. Thus, to the public, if he was found not guilty, it would have created a lot of hatred, really stirring people’s emotions, chaos from the fans. Which is why I thought Michael wouldn’t want that in his plan. Guilty works here in the grand sceme of things. Parallels with Elvis and MJs doctor were quite identical up to here but I thought this is where the difference will occur. I don’t think Conrad will be in jail at all. Hidden maybe, the plan would not see him get any jail time and Im sure there is a plan for him.
Whats next? I think there are some dates to look forward to this month.
11/11/11 Thrive documentary comes out, perhaps starting this portal to the new level of consciousness and awareness, if you haven’t seen the preview, has MJ all over it. Realities of the world, saving the planet etc. Just searching online the so-called portal to a new level of consciousness and awareness is synonymous with 11/11/11 and 12/21/12. I think this is closer to the bigger picture and what MJ is trying to essentially do and that is enlighten us. This could be the beginning of a mass awakening of some sort. It seems like the deeper you try to look into the various layers of this, the more frustrated you get because there are so many possibilities and more questions arise. And some of the other dates discussed recently, will likely give us a direction as to what is going on and whats next.
DWTS was referenced earlier and tomorrow they will have what I believe is one choreographed dance from Cirque’s Immortal tour from the MJ dancers. Worth a check.
Post by: RK on November 07, 2011, 11:29:51 PM
Quote
We might be Nuts.....but we are a whole bunch of Nuts....and together we can make that change!!!I am proud to be in such great company with all of you.
Sorry we don't have your stroopwafels ready TS, but we have plenty of nuts here for you. Once you get past our hard shells, we have good hearts inside. Thankyou for your timely encouragement.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 07, 2011, 11:39:42 PM
Decided to finally start an account after I’ve been reading this thread in durations throughout the trial. Just wanted to say some of the opinions are terrific and enlightening, great discussion and ideas in here.
Like many, I believe this isn’t just a hoax and movie, I think it’s a detailed and complex project, a risky one at that but a necessary one. Assuming there is a sting in place, no one knows the specifics, the media, pharmaceutical industry seem likely targets but no one knows exactly how this plan is all going to come into fruition.
I don’t think it’s time to lose any faith now. It looks like everything is moving as planned.
Regarding the verdict, this was the most plausible scenario. I think Michael can prove more of a point with Murray found guilty, also if you watch the entire trial, it was evident to me Walgren had the better case and his execution was perfect. Thus, to the public, if he was found not guilty, it would have created a lot of hatred, really stirring people’s emotions, chaos from the fans. Which is why I thought Michael wouldn’t want that in his plan. Guilty works here in the grand sceme of things. Parallels with Elvis and MJs doctor were quite identical up to here but I thought this is where the difference will occur. I don’t think Conrad will be in jail at all. Hidden maybe, the plan would not see him get any jail time and Im sure there is a plan for him.
Whats next? I think there are some dates to look forward to this month.
11/11/11 Thrive documentary comes out, perhaps starting this portal to the new level of consciousness and awareness, if you haven’t seen the preview, has MJ all over it. Realities of the world, saving the planet etc. Just searching online the so-called portal to a new level of consciousness and awareness is synonymous with 11/11/11 and 12/21/12. I think this is closer to the bigger picture and what MJ is trying to essentially do and that is enlighten us. This could be the beginning of a mass awakening of some sort. It seems like the deeper you try to look into the various layers of this, the more frustrated you get because there are so many possibilities and more questions arise. And some of the other dates discussed recently, will likely give us a direction as to what is going on and whats next.
DWTS was referenced earlier and tomorrow they will have what I believe is one choreographed dance from Cirque’s Immortal tour from the MJ dancers. Worth a check.
God Bless you BeLIEving 101.. LOVE the name ,by the way! lolol/ it's almost like you are reading my mind!!! lolol/ I hope more search for Truth and LOVE...Know that you are LOVED!!!! You just have to BELIEVE!!! LOVE is the answer!!!
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 07, 2011, 11:45:31 PM
Dont forget that we got a clue today about the "secret" dome project AND the verdict was read on 11/7. I still find it a tad suspicious that we still havent seen the jury.
makes me wonder if there even is a jury... perhaps jury werent even in court. perhaps the word jury is the extent of jury... that would mean 12 less people that would have to know that it was a fake court....
speaking of jury, how many times did md judge want to thank them after verdict was read. like three times. even stating, please stay behind so that i can thank you personally. never have seen this before. has anyone else?
Why should we worry...his spirit will always be with us
LOVE this positivity from you gina. XX what doesnt kill us, makes us stronger. stop doubting everything you know. you know he is alive hun.
Are we really sure Michael is coming back? Like everyone in the family keeps saying "nothing will bring him back" :cry:
space to breathe... im MY OWN TIME... BAM.... we heard it from HIS mouth... thats not a theory. thats not hearsay... nor thru third person.... we heard mj say it...
It's like we need a huddle or something cause people are swaying all over the place. If the trial isn't it, and it doesn't look like it is...
so true, stength in numbers. lets huddle! penguin/ penguin/ penguin/ penguin/
I have a husband who now thinks I'm crazier than ever, everything I say to him about MJ being alive sounds ridiculous as it comes out of my mouth, yet I believe it stronger than ever. I would not be able to convince myself he's dead no matter how hard I tried - that idea seems as ridiculous to me as him being alive does to my family. I feel it in every cell of my body. It sure is a weird feeling when events such as today's are going on around me.
@ CURLS. i love you. everything you write lately, i really do identify with.
@ SIM thank you for your montages. i have never thanked you but just want to tell you that i read all of them. love your facebook too. (though i dont agree with all of the connections, there are many that i do) i admire your hard work and gracious nature to share your findings. THANK YOU!
@ TS - WHOO HOO! TS is in DA HOUSE!!!! THANK YOU so much for coming today, so many of us needed it. but... ahem... arent you forgetting something.....
LEVEL 7... We are waiting. We are listening, so bring it on baby!
/bravo/
Post by: ForstAMoon on November 07, 2011, 11:47:18 PM
TMZ: Law enforcement tells TMZ ... Dr. Conrad Murray has been deemed a "keep away inmate" -- which means jail officials will be taking special precautions to keep him safe during his stint behind bars.
This is huge IMO.
Why so? He was walking freely on the streets (with NPG following him :) , with no protection guard seen recently), so what is now all these special precautions?
What if he indeed is a scape goat and does not know he was just set up, not as MJ killer by whoever wanted MJ dead, but MJ himself to expose the troot. What if the verdict is real, meaning, it was a court with real jury? Maybe there have been two scenarios put together depending on the verdict? So, given Murray was found guilty, they have to protect him now in jail?
I have to think about it more.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 08, 2011, 12:47:23 AM
I had to "teach" my Husband, and my children, the importance of having LOVE in ones life, and there was a time when they looked at me strange, and thought I was "nuts", but today, they themselves can "Feel" how much better their lives are because they are taking a chance on LOVE!
If the path you are on isn't what you "thought" it would be... tell yourself you are worth it...take a leap of Faith! Just make a conscious effort to think more about LOVE and try to think a little more positive....Just DO something!!
LOVE is all that matters, but most "fool" themselves into believing that Love isn't that important...nothing could be further from the truth, or more important!
It takes time and effort to teach about LOVE. If you don't nourish that LOVE, it dies, just like any other "Living" thing!! WE ALL NEED LOVE! People usually just "settle" in life...it's like they have just given up!!
I want everyone to take a look in the mirror...Can you look at yourself and say. "wow...I feel complete I am truly happy and I know I am LOVED and important"!!
If you can't say this, and the majority of humanity can't...then you need to make a change!!! ONLY YOU can make YOUR Life happy!!!
Fix the problems in your life, reconnect with your spouse and family. Go for a walk and really look at the beauty that surrounds you!! Find your "passion" again! Forget about this "material" world we have been living in and concentrate on "FEELING" again. Nurture your soul again...whatever it may be....find that flame, and then feed the fire that is within you!!! You can't achieve anything if you don't "try".
Bottom line...if you don't have LOVE in your life...you can't live in Harmony!
Darkness or LIGHT?
Fear or LOVE?
Sadness or JOY?
We all have a choice!!!! Sending Blessings and Love to all!!
Post by: scorpionchik on November 08, 2011, 01:03:01 AM
@scorpionchick: Murray was 'convicted' for manslaughter while he isn't even dead and you say that's justice because he intended to kill him? You don't make sense and I don't really think you get it.
Wrong name, wrong date, 32 stars, Murray sitting down while verdict was read and all the other clear BS the last couple of weeks scream hoax and Murray being a key player on Michael's side.
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 08, 2011, 01:23:35 AM
TS started this thread with a picture that references kangaroo court. Gina posted a wonderful and clear definition of kangaroo court.Just wanted to know what a kangaroo court means:
"A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to hear a full statement of the exact charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right not to incriminate oneself
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to control one's own defense
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right of appeal"
To me, it's pretty simple. This is a kangaroo court which equals to kangaroo verdict or in other words, fake court case=fake verdict. Now... whether there's a sting attached to it or not, I think only "tIme" (Michael) will tell. I know one thing this hasn't made me flinch at all.
Now that you say it yes, it looks like the verdict of a Kangaroo court. The jury had not enough proof to find him guilty, though they made this decision. It was sort of a GUILTY AT PUBLIC DEMAND verdict.
Yes Murray was at that place at that time but nobody proved he injected MJ the amount of propofol that killed him. This is stupid. A jury should know better. They decided he's guilty just because he was there and because he ordered propofol bottles. What am I missing?!
Post by: curls on November 08, 2011, 01:35:54 AM
speaking of jury, how many times did md judge want to thank them after verdict was read. like three times. even stating, please stay behind so that i can thank you personally. never have seen this before. has anyone else?
@Aussie, yes and Walgren did it too in his little speech afterwards. I said in chat, but it was going so quick it wasn't picked up on (or maybe no-one agrees with me!), but it felt to me like the judge was talking to US, the believers, when he was going on about patience etc etc. Maybe I'm just over-hoaxed!
@TS, I'm glad you dropped by, but you sounded tired to me and sort of depressed or deflated. Maybe that's just me! Hope all's well.
Post by: onthewingsoflove on November 08, 2011, 01:49:35 AM
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
Hi all,
When I heard them say he would be in solitary confinement I went “Whoa, perfect." /woohoo/ This is what I having been saying to those who have sneered at me since 2009 and said, “Why would they send an innocent man to jail?” My respond has always been “Who is to say that he will ever go to jail?”
Solitary confinement, that’s a perfect cover. Yes the man will be in his beach house until it’s time to reveal the truth and no one will be the wiser. Solitary confinement, perfect because there was no man slaughtered, so therefore the man cannot be put into jail to wait the scripted sentencing. And when the sentence is given on the 29th they will probably say 4 years but due to overcrowding in the prisons here in California it's suspended and he will be sentenced to serve his time under house arrest! Shades of Lindsay Lohan!! :lol:
And I loved what Jermaine said outside after the verdict, "Michael is with us." Yes he certainly is! bounce/
Now that the trial is over I am very curious to see what direction this hoax will take from this point on. Hmmmmmmm!
Stay blessed!
OnTheWingsOfLove
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 08, 2011, 01:50:26 AM
Everything points to death, the whole world believes he's dead, why can't I believe he's dead and let it go?
Now the recent numbers surely keep me going, if it's only a coincidence, then it's a hell of a coincidence and it's intriguing. Maybe God wants it to be this way? Is God arranging the dates/numbers for Michael? Is Michael planning it?
The kangaroo court is certainly another intriguing point. TS started this thread with a kangaroo court picture, and the truth is the verdict, at least to me, is not in accordance with the evidence presented. They just don't match.
Everything is spinning in my head and I can't sort it out /pull hair/
Post by: Suzy7 on November 08, 2011, 02:18:49 AM
And Australian MJ BeLIEver, judges actually do thank the jurors like that especially is high profile cases where they sacrifice much of their personal lives, including time. Also take into consideration the things jurors have to partake in, like looking at evidence(graphic photos etc.) which at times can be traumatic. Youtube the OJ verdict being read or others, the judges do the same.
TS thanks for taking time to post, but you do sound slighty beleaguered by all of the doubt? Lol. Understandable, hope you're doing well.
Random; I do realise I've been spelling "alleged" wrong, like 2543879438 times. Yes I pointed it out, I'm a grammar/spelling perfectionist lol.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 08, 2011, 02:39:08 AM
Onthewingsoflove, I like your thoughts on the solitary confinement, perfect cover.
And Australian MJ BeLIEver, judges actually do thank the jurors like that especially is high profile cases where they sacrifice much of their personal lives, including time. Also take into consideration the things jurors have to partake in, like looking at evidence(graphic photos etc.) which at times can be traumatic. Youtube the OJ verdict being read or others, the judges do the same.
well, there you go. have never seen or heard of it before. so it was unusual for me to see that.
i mean a man has just been found 'guilty' and 'praising' the jury on excellent job they did right in front of the convicted seems a little like rubbing salt in the wound. so for me it seemed quite strange. and he did go on a bit. 3 times, thankyou... however i am unfamiliar with court formalaties, so perhaps you are right and it is common place in courtroom.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 08, 2011, 02:59:13 AM
for all of us here... some of us are getting really emotional. drained, tired, even disillusioned with the verdict, impatient, fed up, etc etc.. we have to remember its not all about us... there are others that need to be patient too and who will be experiencing emotional highs and lows through this whole DH, like mj. maybe his kids, perhaps his family, or his close friends, etc... its hard on many, but truth will prevail and faith will get us through.
we need to be selfless and remember why this is happening... all for LOVE a selfless motive. use mj's example of selflessness to get you thru the emotional ups and downs...
L.O.V.E to all.. bearhug
Post by: jono on November 08, 2011, 03:02:13 AM
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
No stroopwafels.. Sorry TS! :|
However... What I can offer you is some Swedish Pancakes. Please enjoy! ;D
(http://www.receptblogga.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/pannkakor.jpg)
Presented to you by:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqohiMy_CU[/youtube]
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 03:03:11 AM
family...Thank you for all the LOVE conversation going on! I don't know about you guys, but I feel totally "Nourished", by this journey. I sit here and I "let it simmer"...I am "Bathing in the "moonlight of LOVE...I feel like I have won the lottery, my spirit is soaring, I have this "energy" that is almost "electric"...to be honest...I have never felt better in my life...I am truly Happy with who I am for the first time in my life, yet in "reality", we don't own a car, we don't have cell phones, we live pay check to pay check, we even know what it is like to go hungry we should be in the deepest depths of despair, (we HAVE been there so we know what that is like!) but my husband and I have never been happier in our lives!! I have never felt richer in my life!
I had to "teach" my Husband, and my children, the importance of having LOVE in ones life, and there was a time when they looked at me strange, and thought I was "nuts", but today, they themselves can "Feel" how much better their lives are because they are taking a chance on LOVE!
If the path you are on isn't what you "thought" it would be... tell yourself you are worth it...take a leap of Faith! Just make a conscious effort to think more about LOVE and try to think a little more positive....Just DO something!!
LOVE is all that matters, but most "fool" themselves into believing that Love isn't that important...nothing could be further from the truth, or more important!
It takes time and effort to teach about LOVE. If you don't nourish that LOVE, it dies, just like any other "Living" thing!! WE ALL NEED LOVE! People usually just "settle" in life...it's like they have just given up!!
I want everyone to take a look in the mirror...Can you look at yourself and say. "wow...I feel complete I am truly happy and I know I am LOVED and important"!!
If you can't say this, and the majority of humanity can't...then you need to make a change!!! ONLY YOU can make YOUR Life happy!!!
Fix the problems in your life, reconnect with your spouse and family. Go for a walk and really look at the beauty that surrounds you!! Find your "passion" again! Forget about this "material" world we have been living in and concentrate on "FEELING" again. Nurture your soul again...whatever it may be....find that flame, and then feed the fire that is within you!!! You can't achieve anything if you don't "try".
Bottom line...if you don't have LOVE in your life...you can't live in Harmony!
Darkness or LIGHT?
Fear or LOVE?
Sadness or JOY?
We all have a choice!!!! Sending Blessings and Love to all!!
Mjj4ever777 thank you very much for all your LOVE and POSITIVITY :)!!!!!
DIVISION is our problem,it was never about BELIEVERS or NON BELIEVERS.This is WRONG,and that's why we have so many problems in our WORLD,because we always think IN CONTRADICTION.This has GOT TO STOP and LOVE is the ANSWER= TRUTH!!!!
Until we are able to ELIMINATE THE DIVISION,we will NEVER BE FREE,NEVER!!!! We are living a REAL HELL/MAZE on earth because of ourselves.It is up to us TO STOP THIS!!!!We have to start with THE MAN IN THE MIRROR:
Michael Jackson - Man In The Mirror - DWT Rehearsal [Restoded]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwjNvaPPKs&feature=feedlik[/youtube]
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-N_8ZFX0usLw/Tmr3pr29UxI/AAAAAAAANbg/l6rNpnFdY9o/s1600/Jim_Carrey_in_T_Shirt_01.jpg)
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Jim+Carrey+Jim+Carrey+Graffiti+4p7rLjELEL5l.jpg)
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days ago
Quote
To understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Michael Jackson-HEAVEN IS HERE
You and I were never separate
It’s just an illusion
Wrought by the magical lens of
Perception
There is only one Wholeness
Only one Mind
We are like ripples
In the vast Ocean of Consciousness
Come, let us dance
The Dance of Creation
Let us celebrate
The Joy of Life
Mjj4ever777 when I saw the happines and the joy that some people had ,when Murray was found guilty,I could not believed my eyes :( .How can you feel joy and happines ,when another one goes true pain and trouble,HOW????? And more than that,we know that Murray is INNOCENT,because he never killed anyone geek/!!!! This is what we have to LEARN,WE HAVE TO STOP THE HATE!!!!!!
This wonderfull video was posted on the forum,a couple days before,but no one noticed.
It is about MICHAEL's REAL MESSAGE OF LOVE!!
This is not a REVOLUTION,THIS IS OUR EVOLUTION ;)!!!!!!
Michael Jackson 11:11 :11 Were ALL One
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtpBQTo0S8Y&feature=feedf[/youtube]
Post by: Jacaranda on November 08, 2011, 03:46:10 AM
Kangaroo court. The verdict had to be guilty. If Murray was found innocent and 'set free' then he would be in danger i think. Someone would take it upon themselves to 'serve the justice' that they felt was not done in the court, if you know what i mean. If he was found innocent he would have had to been taken into some kind of protective custody. Not only that, but an innocent verdict would have basically let the shady docs of the world know that they can do what they do and potentially get away with it.
A guilty verdict serves more purpose. Murray is immediately carted off for his own good, and there is no need and no opportunity for someone to 'do the justice that wasn't served'. Shady docs have just got a scare, they are alerted that they can be held accountable, and that the flood gates may now be open. Meanwhile, the non-believers are satisfied, and the believers, well, if you believe what you believe, the verdict ahould make little impact on that stance.
This is all assuming Murray is 'in on it', of course. If he wasn't and was instead outwitted, then the guilty verdict is still the right one. It's kind of a win-win all around.
I couldn't help notice the hint of a smile on his face after the verdict. And, other than that, no reaction at all. That to me speaks volumes.
So were the Jury in on it. possibly. But even had they not been, i think enough was done in the trial to guide them to the guilty verdict. Walgren drove it home when he said that they only need to find one act of criminal negligence for a verdict of guilty of involutary manslaughter. And as the 'story' goes, there were plenty of things for them to attactch that one act to. (no medical records, giving propofol in home, lack of monitoring, delaying 911, holding back vital info from medics.. etc etc etc).
He (in illusion or reality) broke the oath to 'do no harm', because all those things are harmful in one way or another.
Innocent or guilty was a fork in the road. Now we know what path we are travelling down.
Just my two cents.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 03:47:12 AM
(http://images.smh.com.au/2011/11/08/2758349/blog-crowd.jpg)
I'm the only one to see O.J.SIMPSON BLACK and WHITE GLOVES afraid/ afraid/??????
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2006/11/15/oj.jpg)
Watch here,who is filming this,is doing this on PURPOSE!!!!! This is big and I KNEW IT!!!!
Murray trial is not about just about him,it is about a LOT MORE,and O.J.SIMPSON is just the BEGINING!!!!!!OMGGGGGGGGGGG OMG! OMG!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfFSuyWuPfM&feature=feedu[/youtube]
CON-RAT!!!!!! afraid/ afraid/ (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/350644178_a5476be03c.jpg)
Post by: MJonmind on November 08, 2011, 04:26:05 AM
I watched all the verdict, and was quite shocked at "Guilty!" but either result doesn't change my beLIEving status. MJ's the writer, director of this story/movie and we should expect the unexpected. Whatever the "solitary confinement" will end up being remains to be seen. Great news about Jermaine and LaToya saying Michael was in the courtroom with them all. I love these spiritualized statements that can be taken 2 ways. I'm sure all the way to Dec. 21, 2012 there will continue to be fresh news, unexpected twists, educational articles, hoax-related videos, that Michael will steer us to, perhaps there will be more of the 10 MJ projects we were promised.
Emeraldcity, I’m so sorry to hear about your father. May God comfort you.
TS, you kinda scared me a bit with "end". errrr But I'm hoping you're going to stay with us till at least BAM.
Quote
Nearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Yes, the whole trial was not normal, and Murray is not normal--he's an enigma.
michael-jackson/
Applehead, you bring up something that's been on my mind with no proof. Remember the 32 star seal in that courtroom bdlg. on floor 9 was where MJ's trial and OJ's was, with a group shot. (I know someone also saw them zooming in on a 32 star courtseal pic on a stand.) I keep thinking OJ's and MJ's 2005 were both staged, perhaps for publicity, for news drama to boost news-sales. Could MJ's death hoax be part of something much bigger organized by some greater higher power--the only ones that seem smart, wealthy, powerful enough are God, or the devil through evil entities such as TPTB. It just seems the ripples of the MJ rock thrown in the water are ever widening. There seem to be connections to the numerology everywhere such as common death dates, thousands of connections in so many movies that are staggering. Or are we simply being made aware here (2 years worth) and tapping into knowledge of streams of connections all throughout history and our universe, because there is one God creating every coincidence and detail.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 08, 2011, 04:35:21 AM
@Aussie I do think he went on little while lol, but it isn't unusual.
Emerald, I too am sorry for your loss. I remember your posts and it's good to have you back here.
Mjonmind, great post, great thoughts regarding the conspiracies/connections. There is something much more grand at play.
Post by: chappie on November 08, 2011, 05:31:55 AM
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
Wat zou je denken van een kopje warme chocolademelk met slagroom bij je stroopwafels TS?
Jammie Jammie :)
Post by: SimPattyK on November 08, 2011, 05:34:02 AM
[...]I am happy and touched by your kind words which enourage me to continue! Thank you very much !
@ SIM thank you for your montages. i have never thanked you but just want to tell you that i read all of them. love your facebook too. (though i dont agree with all of the connections, there are many that i do) i admire your hard work and gracious nature to share your findings. THANK YOU!
Much LOVE to you! bearhug
@MsTrinity: thanks for adding those interesting comments to my observations after the verdict! ;)
@TS: I missed you! Thanks for all the great info that you've been giving us for 2 years now, I am grateful to you for everything you taught us!
I can't wait to read you the next level! ;)
KISSes & HUGs to everyone!
(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif) bearhug bearhug(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif)(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Amour/0009.gif)
Post by: sailya on November 08, 2011, 05:42:30 AM
I'm still here. This is a Kangaroo court,right? /judge/
Remember it's all gonna come out!
KEEP THE FAITH NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS! rr/
I LOVE YOU ALL & GOD BLESS ;)
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 05:53:55 AM
I have so enjoyed all the beautiful posts! Imagine what other person besides Michael would even think to heal the planet and bring back love for real, starting a chain reaction with each of us involved. These 2 years I have read so many quotes from MJ, stories about his actions, learning the goal/purposes of this hoax from Front/TS that leave me overwhelmed with LOVE for, and joy and wonder at the beauty of the man and his message. There truly is a much bigger picture here, that will be well worth the wait to see MJ's plan fulfilled completely--God's plan!
I watched all the verdict, and was quite shocked at "Guilty!" but either result doesn't change my beLIEving status. MJ's the writer, director of this story/movie and we should expect the unexpected. Whatever the "solitary confinement" will end up being remains to be seen. Great news about Jermaine and LaToya saying Michael was in the courtroom with them all. I love these spiritualized statements that can be taken 2 ways. I'm sure all the way to Dec. 21, 2012 there will continue to be fresh news, unexpected twists, educational articles, hoax-related videos, that Michael will steer us to, perhaps there will be more of the 10 MJ projects we were promised.
Emeraldcity, I’m so sorry to hear about your father. May God comfort you.
TS, you kinda scared me a bit with "end". errrr But I'm hoping you're going to stay with us till at least BAM.QuoteNearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Yes, the whole trial was not normal, and Murray is not normal--he's an enigma.
michael-jackson/
Applehead, you bring up something that's been on my mind with no proof. Remember the 32 star seal in that courtroom bdlg. on floor 9 was where MJ's trial and OJ's was, with a group shot. (I know someone also saw them zooming in on a courtseal pic on a stand.) I keep thinking OJ's and MJ's 2005 were both staged, perhaps for publicity, for news drama. Could MJ's death hoax be part of something much bigger organized by some greater higher power--the only ones that seem smart, wealthy, powerful enough are God, or the devil through evil entities such as TPTB. It just seems the ripples of the MJ rock thrown in the water are ever widening. It connects to the numerology everywhere such as common death dates, thousands of connections in so many movies that are staggering. Or are we simply being made aware here (2 years worth) and tapping into knowledge of streams of connections all throughout history and our universe, because there is one God creating every coincidence and detail. We are seeing more BIG picture than before, thanks to Michael!
Mjonmind if you only knew,OMG OMG! OMG! OMG!
It's MUCH MORE THAN O.J. SIMPSON!!!!!!!!! Now I understand why every character of this HOAX is neither DOCTOR,neither LAWYER,neither REPORTER,neither SPIRITUAL ADVISERS,neither MUSICIAN,they/we are ALL ACTORS/PLAYERS :shock:!!!
William Shakespeare - All the world's a stage (from As You Like It 2/7)
(http://omerbhatti.com/wp-content/themes/obee/images/itunes.jpg)
Remember what Donte Jackson posted 1 MONTH AGO???? OMG! OMG! OMG! WE are/have to going BACKwards in ORDER to find out THE TRUTH that has been KEPT from US!!!!!! We must UNLEARN what we have LEARN!!!!
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltvg6dNrhf1qjp3yqo1_500.jpg)
(http://[url=http://dontejackson13.tumblr.com/post/10431957017]http://dontejackson13.tumblr.com/post/10431957017[/url])
Quote
Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything
is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality. ~ Michael Ellner
http://dontejackson13.tumblr.com/post/10431957017 (http://dontejackson13.tumblr.com/post/10431957017)
This is what is happening now for GOD SAKE,we are living THIS IS IT LIVE=DIVINITY IN MOTION :shock:,because of MICHAEL!!!! This happening everywere,even in my country!!!
People are dying every were even if is FULL of HOSPITALS and FULL of DOCTORS,
Injustice is every were even if is FULL of LAWYERS and TRIBUNALS,
REAL KNOWLEDGE is foreign to us even if is FULL of SCHOOLS, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES,
We have not REAL information,just gossip :x ,even if is FULL of REPORTERS,CHANNEL TELEVISION and NEWSPAPERS,
People are going loosing spirituality and faith ,even if is FULL of PRIESTS and CHURCHES.
Quote
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase" (Daniel:12:4).
Man's Desire for Knowledge/GENESIS (http://www.pagepipe.com/health/small-apple.jpg)
Man seems to have been created with an indiscriminate desire to know, and then given the challenge by God of channeling that desire as one of the character-building opportunities of life. God placed in the midst of the garden of Eden a tree which would impart knowledge-good and evil knowledge. You cannot help but wonder if its placement in the garden was to test man. After all, did not God say, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" (Genesis:2:16-17)?
Even a warning that eating of the tree would be fatal did not deter Eve, and later Adam, from taking its fruit. Why? Well, as the supermarket tabloid says, "Inquiring minds want to know." "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food [I cannot help but interject that she was surrounded by trees filled with fruit that was 'good for food'], that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis:3:6 emphasis mine). It is interesting to note that God never said the tree would make one wise, only that it was a tree of knowledge of good and evil. There is quite a difference.
THIS IS OUR EVOLUTION/REAL EVOLUTION/THIS IS IT!!!!
2012 is not the end of anything but the systems currently governing our society. on 12/21/2012 we mystics will be dancing and celebrating.
http://twitter.com/#!/Donte_Jackson/status/132541864967540736
(http://twitter.com/#!/Donte_Jackson/status/132541864967540736)
Post by: wishingstar on November 08, 2011, 09:33:45 AM
There are so many beautiful words of encouragement written here......BeTheChange- you are and always have been brilliant, my friend! MJonmind.....absolutely amazing! SimPattyK.....well you know how I feel about your art ;) I LOVE IT! Applehead....you're astounding! Everyone is amazing....full of love.
As for TS & Front finally posting something......it's nice to see them, truly. I feel a bit like Nanny McPhee with you guys, however. When the children want Nanny McPhee, but no longer need her, she must go. I am in no way saying TS or Front must go. I enjoy having them around....I love the pathways of thought they carve out for us to ponder. The re-directs were always my favorite.... puzzle-like in many ways. However, I never hang on each word they say, nor do I stress if they don't appear. I enjoy them when they are here, live in that moment and learn what I can. Thanks to you both for popping in. It's nice to know you're still around...truly.
Wow...what a time for "maintenance mode", LOL ........I need coffee anyways. Don't stress about it all....all will come out, the truth will be revealed. I believe there is more to come on all sides of this gigantic cube called Hoax. LOVE you all......
Blessings
Post by: MJ_ForeverandAlways on November 08, 2011, 10:54:54 AM
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
Post by: wishingstar on November 08, 2011, 11:28:00 AM
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
You are without, the bravest & most honest member I have ever read MJ_forever.......words will never be enough to thank you for that open-ness you shared. May you be blessed all your days and peace be with you abundantly now and forever. You are indeed a blessing.......for what you just did will help heal others, no doubt.....it gives me strength, hope and encouragement. Thank you. I love you!
bearhug
Blessings Always
Post by: scorpionchik on November 08, 2011, 11:41:34 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on November 08, 2011, 11:42:45 AM
"And be ye kind one to another,
tenderhearted, forgiving one another,
even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
(Ephesians 4:32)
"Forgiveness does not change the past
—but—
it changes the pain of the present
—and—
unlocks the door to the future".
"Forgiveness is
the first born child of mercy,
and mercy and love
are so entwined
in the arms of one another
that it is quite impossible
to separate them".
@WishingStar....you are a blessing, filled with such light and love. I truly feel blessed to have you as a friend...you are loved.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on November 08, 2011, 12:44:22 PM
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
:lol:
I hope you won't turn into this after eating a stroopwafel... errrr....
Post by: jono on November 08, 2011, 12:55:48 PM
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
AMAZING! Just amazing... You brought tears to my eyes...There truly is something DIVIN about forgiveness.... Beautiful!
I am going to share your story with my family. Thank you so much for opening your heart to us like this!
Much LOVE bearhug
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 01:07:29 PM
We were NEVER APART ,we were always ONE,is just that we were DIVIDED by HATE and NEGATIVITY.Thank you very much!!!!!
I like to share with you some wise word that a woman left for JIM CARREY on twitter .After I finished to read ,I understood EVERYTHING all over again !!!!
IrenevanDorssen9 days agoQuoteTo understand everything is to forgive everything ~ buddha ~Ho'oponopono
By forgiving others you can see the beauty of the roll that they played, it makes the hate and anger disappear and fill you with gratitude. By forgiving yourself you are truly liberating yourself from your own prison that’s holding you back wherever you go. But it’s okay to be in that prison, when it’s time to breakout you will :)
Applehead…..thank you so much for posting this….I am a testament to this statement. I am going to share something with you all….not for pity or for you to feel sorry for me….but as a lesson in the power of forgiving!
I was an abused child…for as far back as I can remember at age 6 to when I left home at 17 to live with my Grandmother. I suffered daily physical, sexual, and mental abuse from my parents. I lived in fear of my Father for 44 years….if I happened across him I would tremble uncontrollably and get sick to my stomach. My Father had never admitted he had done any wrong and it was always my fault somehow of what had happened to me. I had grown to have this horrible hatred inside of me…I many times wished a horrible death to my Father for what he had done. Then 4 years ago I went through something in my marriage that really tested my faith in God and through that test….my faith strengthened.
In January of 2008, I got a phone call from my Aunt telling me that my Father had been air lifted to a hospital about 45 minutes from me and he was not doing well. I immediately had this overwhelming feeling that I had to go…even though I hadn’t seen my Father in years. But I feel God was pushing me to go!
I got to the hospital and when I walked into my Fathers room he was hooked up to a ventilator, so he had a tube down his throat and couldn’t talk. The look of pure fear on his face at seeing me, broke my heart…he was scared of me for the first time in my life. I said to him in a soft voice…I’m not here to hurt you; I’m here because I Love You! He instantly had tears streaming down his face and he looked me straight in the eyes and mouthed to me …I’m so sorry, please forgive me? I told my Father that I forgave him and that I was sorry that we waited so many years to say those things. He started to shake his head in anger and again said to me…..”I’m sorry…you did nothing wrong”. I cannot tell you the feeling of freedom and peace that came over me at that moment…I had waited for so long to hear those words from him and he finally set me free from all the hatred and fear I had carried.
I spent the next 2 days sharing with my Father all the good things he had done for me and had taught me through my time spent living with him. I cherish those moments so very much…because for 2 ½ days I had the Father I had always wanted and shared the last moments of his life as Father & Daughter as it should be. My Father slipped into a coma as his cancer progressed and his organs started to shut down. On the final day my sister and I had to make the decision to take him off life support and my Father slipped peacefully from this earth within an hour. I held his hand and kissed his head and told him it was OK and that I loved him with all my heart.
My Aunts (his sisters) all said to me, “that I had given him the greatest gift anyone could have given him…..”Forgiveness” But to me…I felt I had gotten the greatest gift…I was able to forgive and be set free.
I have been told by some family members that they do not understand how I could forgive my Father or Mother for the horrible things they done……and I tell them that it is not for them to understand….for it’s between my Father, Mother, myself and God above. And until they understand the true meaning of forgiveness and feel it in their heart….they will not understand!
Both my Mother & Father passed away from cancer within a year and a half of each other and both left this world knowing…. how very much I loved them and that I had forgave them! Now I am left with all my “Good” memories of my parents and I cherish them!!!
To forgive is the greatest gift our heart can give….and to forgive lets in an abundance of LOVE!!!
Thank you for letting me share with you….I love you all so very much…and thank God for you…for I am truly blessed to be here and be a part of this adventure!! bearhug
MJ_ForeverandAlways OMG I have no words :cry:,I don't know what to say really,I'm in tears :cry: :cry: :cry:!!!! You are so BRAVE ,GOD bless you!!! Thank you for sharing a PIECE FROM YOUR LIFE.
I feel SO BLESSED,to know and have such a beautiful friends here on this forum,thank you for ALL from the bottom of my HEART !!!! Michael's song MAN IN THE MIRROR and this performance of his from Dangerous rehearsals doesn't need more words.His performance is PERFECTION,pure and simple,is LOVE,everything this PLANET needs to start HEALING!!!!
Again I LOVE YOU all,thank you for everything!!!
Michael Jackson - Man In The Mirror Dangerous Tour Rehearsals 1992 - Restored - Tape 2 - HD
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dn9-FNQsm8&feature=feedf[/youtube]
Post by: Shining light on November 08, 2011, 01:10:58 PM
Will it get inside?
Through the heart of your surrender
To your alibis
And you can
Say the words
Like you understand
But the power's in believing
So give yourself a chance
Cuz you can
Climb the highest mountain
Swim the deepest sea-ee
All you need is the will to want it
And a
Little self-esteem
So keep the faith
Don't let nobody turn you round
You got to know when it's good to go
To get your dreams up off the ground
So keep the faith
Baby yeah
Because it's just a matter of time
Before your confidence will win out
Believe in yourself no matter what it's gonna take
You can be a winner but you gotta keep the faith
Gon' keep it brother
You got
And when you think of trust
Does it lead you home?
To a place that you only dream of
When you're all alone
And you can go by feel
'Stead of circumstance
But the power's in believing
So give yourself a chance
I know that you can
Sail across the water
Float across the sky-i
Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try
So keep the faith
Ow
Don't let nobody take you down brother
Just keep your eyes on the prize
Feet flat on the ground
So keep the faith
Baby yeah
Because it's just a matter of time
Before your confidence will win out
I told my brother how to do the thing right
Lift up your head and show the world you got pride
Go for what you want
Don't let them get in your way
You can be a winner but you gotta
Keep the faith
Gon' keep it brother
You got
I know that keepin the faith
Means never givin up on love
But the power that love has
Has to make it right
Makes it
Makes it right
So keep the faith
Don't let nobody turn you round brother
You got to know when it's good to go
Get your dreams up off of the ground
So keep the faith
Baby yeah
Because it's just a matter of time
Before your confidence will win out
Better stand up and act like you wanna do it right
Don't play the fool for the rest of your life
Work on it brother and you'll make it someday
Go for what you want and don't forget the faith
Look at yourself and what your doin right now
Stand back a minute just to check yourself out
Straighten up your life and how your livin each day
Get yourself together cuz you gotta keep the faith
Don't let nobody take you down brother
Just keep your eyes on the prize
Your feet flat on the ground
So keep the faith
Baby yeah
Because it's just a matter of time
Before your confidence will win out
Lift up your mind before your mind gets blown
Some things in life you're best just leave them alone
Go for what you want
Don't let it get in your way
You can make it happen but you gotta keep the faith Gon' keep it brother
You got to keep the faith
Yeah keep the faith
Gon' keep it sista
You got to keep the faith
I told my brother how to do the thing right
Lift up your head and show the world you got pride
Go for what you want
Don't let them get in your way
You can be a winner if you keep the faith
Straighten out yourself and get your mind on track
Dust off your butt and get your self-respect back
You've know me long enough to know that I don't play
Take it like you want it but you got to keep the faith
Gon'
Don't let nobody take you down
Just keep your eyes on the prize
Your feet flat on the ground
So keep the faith
Baby yeah
Because it's just a matter of time
Before your confidence will win out
But till that day
I said you gotta keep the faith
"I will not stop believing!" "We should not stop believing!" We see what is going on! The truth shall come and then all who are still sleeping shall see the truth. Is doctor Murray proof that our flawed system can easily put an innocent man behind bars. Even if there is not really enough proof,it could have easily been Michael in 2005. Are we seeing the other side of that,meaning what if MJ had been convicted? Just when you think this is almost over you find out it may only be the beginning. Faith that the truth will prevail will take us to a epic finale. party/
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 01:34:05 PM
Quote
I am jumping in, my sons are telling me that I am going senile, with my old age.. I am only 52yrs old give me a break lolol/. They tell me to grow up, Michael is dead, when are you going to realize that.. I need therapy lolol/, Me need therapy, I can do therapy on myself lolol/ . My whole family are trying to discourage me to close the book on Michael, they tell me now for 2 yrs you have spend on Michael, it is time to grieve for him, and let him rest in peace.. I told them all, I will never give up hope, I know deep down he is alive, and he will come back , and once he does, you will be the losers, not me lolol/. I guess they do not understand why Michael hoaxed his death like we do.. I just want to say I love all of you guys I have passed 2 wonderful years, and more to come in this forum, and there is no way in hell I will give up on Michael, never.... If I have to, I will go find him myself.. lolol/ Where would I start?? God bless you all, with all my affection..
All4loveandbelieve please KEEP THE FAITH,and REMEMBER that:WHEN the WHOLE WORLD say NO,YOU say YES!!! Michael is ALIVE !!!!
Look here at this video,the EXACT same thing happened to Linus van Pelt ,but he never gave up!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gux5mJOT5U&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube][/size]
Post by: a18wheelslady on November 08, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
You coming in to post is better then having a doughnut with my coffee.
Although I watched the verdict I was not upset because I know in my heart that this is
One of the best movies I will ever watch.
Hugsssssssssssssssss
Love You More :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Post by: SimPattyK on November 08, 2011, 01:52:50 PM
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
[....]
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9838/mj2005trial003.jpg)
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1430/mj2005trial005.jpg)
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1718/murraymjhandcuffs.jpg)
Timeline: The Jackson case
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3379363.stm
Post by: everlastinglove_MJ on November 08, 2011, 01:53:50 PM
I agree, we shouldn't loose faith and get out of balance because of this verdict, we have to look further than this and believe that truth is so much stronger than lies. Truth is the winner after all!
I'm sure that this is just a beginning.. maybe investigation has been started already, which is the next level and it's part 2 of CM's (MJ's) documentary 8-)
& thanks for the lyrics, they've such a strong meaning, especially now respect/
L.O.V.E.
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 08, 2011, 02:13:57 PM
Looks this way to me. "Shut up guys, please?" :|
Of course we will not as we are crazy geek/ and not afraid of being called this way :lol:
Post by: monstertooty on November 08, 2011, 02:36:11 PM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 02:52:23 PM
And speaking of elephants ^^ in the courtroom,
don't you like Michael's outfit during the trial back in 2005 ? :shock: :lol:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6112/mjtrial2005clothesclues.jpg)
And not just the "elephants", but there are also other "elements"
connecting the 2 Trials ... :)
like for example: THE TIES !!!
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/659/tiesmurraymj.jpg)
[....]
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9838/mj2005trial003.jpg)
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1430/mj2005trial005.jpg)
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1718/murraymjhandcuffs.jpg)
Timeline: The Jackson case
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3379363.stm
Simpa thank you very much for your post!!! Agian I hope you are not mad with me,I apologise again,because now I know that I offended you.It was my EGO :cry:,but it will never happen,I promise you.I'm not perfect ,I'm human,so please allow me to correct myself :)!!!!
You already know what I feel about 2005 trail ;) .This video is special for you,it clearly say MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,even on the PAPERS!!!! Michael is doing V sign when he is coming out from the arrest.
If people didn't knew now it's perfect time to say this 8-) :
That BIG WHITE AIRPLANE is MICHAEL's airplane,lol lolol/!!!!!!
Post by: Sarahli on November 08, 2011, 03:14:28 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 08, 2011, 03:23:03 PM
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg365477#msg365477
I didn't even realize ::P afraid/
Post by: PureLove on November 08, 2011, 03:30:06 PM
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
So you say, Michael was really a drug addict. Murray is with the evil side who had been trying to kill Michael and he was trying to kill Michael for real fueling him with drugs but Michael found out about the plan and made him fall into his own trap and therefore Murray is in jail now. And also you say that, Murray's speech on youtube which is exactly like Michael's is just a coincidence. Sorry Scorpion but this means that you missed what a LONG TERM, perfect plan this is! Michael started to give out clues about this hoax at least 20 years ago. It looks like you didn't get any of them and therefore you think Murray is a real killer and Michael arranged a plan in a hurry to get him. You need to start thinking BIGGER and stop thinking Michael is a fragile drug addict. There is so much more than you can imagine. And this is NOT such a simple plan which was decided in a short term. You're missing the important points of the hoax.
Post by: PureLove on November 08, 2011, 03:43:29 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Post by: peacock7 on November 08, 2011, 03:51:07 PM
I refuse to watch any TV coverage. When I want to catch up, I come here. I can't even go to Lipstick Alley and other boards - because those people just don't get it. Great points made by a lot of you. Sadly, there are a few laggards that are still trying to figure out of MJ is alive or not for God sakes. 'What Will It Take?' For those ones even if MJ came back, they'd need a dna test.
DOC Murray was acting like the character in “To Kill a Mockingbird” = MJ. He represents MJ and all other black mean that were falsely accused and the hundreds that were hung from trees. No one knows if that is truly a real person’s face. Let’s not forget “Ghosts.” MJ played the Mayor and no one knew it until………………………….. I say this to say that the pics we have seen of Murray were planted, and he could be made up so that MJ can also be made up with the same face. MJ is an expert now on make-up and masks compared to when he did Ghosts.
Remember the young lady that was with him on the beach is the same one (actress) that was with Blanket and them last summer in so-called Hawaii (Wonderland)? LOL! So in other words, this man – DOC Murray was probably made up – and at times it is MJ himself. Just because we’re shown pics of Murray walking down the street doesn’t means that it was happening in real time. Most of the video we got of Murray was taken by NPG/TMZ. They are the only ones that can swear by dates and times – and they can be manipulated.
This means that MJ could have been made up to look like Murray and was seen walking around wearing stilts – and especially that day that he was walking – and the way he was swinging his arms reminded some of MJ. Does anyone remember the video of Murray walking and swinging his arms just like MJ used to do? I knew then that if that wasn’t MJ in stilts. Not only that though, but with certain cameras and shots, one can surely make the person captured appear to be taller – no?
MJ also sang about DOC Murray in his Moonwalker Smooth Criminal video and song. What are the odds? One should read up on Serenitys_Dream take about this fact.
I love the below video. When MJ jumped on that SUV, I was like – you go boy. He seemed very strong. So when I want him to touch my heart I watch it. The Nancy Graces of the world hated him for this. Many folks cracked on him for doing this. Too bad! MJ knew he was innocent – and I truly believe God and/or his Angel informed him that he was not going to be found guilty. These rabid and evil haters wanted to lock him up, thrown away the key and to steal his fortune to include Neverland that is rumored to have oil on premises.
Let me give one of my insights right here. MJ could care less about material goods in the long run. He knows, like I hope we all do that – we can’t take them with us when we pass on. The thing is many of us won’t be passing on thru death but thru Ascension. There it’ll be the same thing. No materialism. No money. No this and no that will be in the 5th World – 5th Dimension. MICHAEL JACKSON COULD CARE LESS ABOUT MATERIAL GOODS. He knows what is up. He has already given up all of his worldly goods in his mind because HE THINKS MULTIDEMISIONALLY. He doesn’t’ think like most human beings. He already knows the truth as his children and loved ones know the truth. Paris - tweeting about 11/11 Prince - Avatar = Alien on Twitter page. Omer - one word in CAPS = ASCENSION. Donte - Tumblr page (My God) & Diana wearing a (Shimmering - word used by writer) Cosmic gown that looked like two galaxies colliding at a recent concert. Why who told her to wear that I wonder? Who did she ask to sew it up for her? LOL! Pretty significant to me. Pretty telling. Pretty interesting. Pretty spot on - and on and on. No coincidences.
I figured that MJ had gathered them all (different times I’m sure) to include, Berry Gordy, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson (Motown Family - he loves very much) - and a few others that spoke at his Memorial. MJ paid for David Ruffin's and Marvin Gaye's funerals. He's met them at nine years old. I remember Eddie Kendrick (Temptations) once wrote about how Michael used to ask him questions, and one day he was playing something on the piano - and then he said Mike was like - "oh I see, move over." Eddie said MJ knew what came next and just took over. He said MJ was super quick when it came to things like that. He just knew. It was like he didn't have to study. I think he is an Old Soul. Many of the Motown people referred to him as such. He was always a knower. He had SWAG too at ten years old to see the way he was macking on Diana back then. LOL! He had more swag than Jackie did back then.
This is another reason I used to and sort of still shake my head at some people (and I don’t mean only on here) when they made out like the Jacksons were going after MJ’s fortune and that is all they wanted. Hello. Wake up! The Jacksons also know what is up – and that there is no materialism in the 5th world. Heck, please read Dr. Stankov’s book The Cosmic Laws of Creation and Destruction – and you’ll learn that the hell planet B (remaining planet after the spilt) will be hell on earth in more ways than one. No communication folks. No phones. No internet. No TVs. No infrastructure. The density of the remaining planer B won’t be able to supply such things because the remaining earth grid will change and so on. So what will even left for the ones remaining on the catastrophic earth? Nothing, but evil and further decay and debasement. People killing and eating each other to survive and so on. Surely, some don’t want to read such things – but you must wake up and take off those rose colored glasses. Those days are over. This is what Michael wanted us to learn. He wants us to wake up, be alert and aware and choose wisely. Paradise or hell (like all religious books inferred when speaking about Heaven and hell).
I think he is an Ascended Human Master (even if only in spirit) – and he will be in the first group of AHMs to come before humanity to explains to us what is up and what was up for the last umpteen thousand years. He is going to live up to his calling – no question – and he’ll help to guide us to the light. We’ll see him again. Give him time. Wow – if one were to believe Stankov – the MOON WAS TAKEN OVER BY THE FORCES OF LIGHT TWO YEARS AGO. Say what?!!!!!!!! Hmmmmmmm. MJ had to have a reason to have called his book Moonwalker. You been walking on the moon MJ? Omer/Obee sung in Red Nikes – “No one is close to him. He’s on another planet.” I’m open to believing in anything that sounds true to me – although I’m not saying that I believe everything. I just store it in my computer brain and pull it back up for reference/fact/truth or speculation as needed. I could also add wonderment, supposition and a bunch of more adjectives. All I know is that I fell in love with MJ when he was 9 years old because of his angel voice and his charm. I’ve prayed a lot lately that he is still in love with God – and it seems that all my dreams are still true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNyiFz9_-OY
P.S. – I love the below piece – and the excerpts below stand out and remind me of what MJ has always tried to do and that was to wake and guide us to the LIGHT. INFORMATION = LIGHT. LIGHT = TRUTH. TRUTH = GOD. GOD = LOVE.
FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real. That’s what this trial and MJ’S in 2005 was ALL about. It was incredulous that those people/clowns brought such falsified evidence up against MJ and made it appear real. We knew it could be done, but the evil minds that ensured they did it were just…………….
I remember Donte posted something along the lines that we should not hate the ones that commit evil. (Of course, I’ve known that all along, but it is so refreshing to see the young ones MJ’s relatives – lol – they may be good old Star Seeds) say as much. He said that - one should just be glad that one’s not like that. And while it sounds nice to say that we should love everyone, no one deserves our love unconditionally on 3-D earth. We have been too busy learning the lesson that we need to love and forgive ourselves unconditionally before that can be afforded anyone else, and so be it and “Let it Be”, it’ll be par for the course in 5-D.
Below is a great piece by an Apache Shaman from the 1920s. The below quotes from Part II could easily be applied to Michael.
"If a man could make the right choices," he said, "then he could significantly alter the course of the possible future. No man, then, should feel insignificant, for it only takes one man to alter the consciousness of mankind through the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things. In essence, one thought influences another, then another, until the thought is made manifest throughout all of Creation. It is the same thought, the same force, that causes an entire flock of birds to change course, as the flock then has one mind."
Grandfather then spoke. "Who are these people; who is this boy? What did they work for and what were their hopes, dreams and visions? Did they just work physically or did they work for the things beyond the flesh, for a grander purpose? Certainly they affected the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things, but did they really work to the best of their ability to make things better for the future of their grandchildren, or did they do nothing other than to perpetuate the myth of society? Were they happy, joyous and filled with spiritual rapture, or did they just lead lives of labour and mediocrity? And did this boy live close to the Earth and the Creator, or did he just give up his youth, his sense of adventure, to toil, as did his parents and their parents before them? This boy was exactly your age, and I suspect he had hopes and dreams much like yours. But this is his legacy, lying in a forgotten grave."
"But, Grandfather," I said, "isn't it enough just to be happy and live your life fully?
After a long moment of silence, Grandfather answered. "It is not enough that man be just happy in the flesh, but he must also be happy and joyous in spirit. For without spiritual happiness and rapture, life is shallow. Without seeking the things of the Spirit, life is half lived and empty. And by spiritual life I do not mean just setting aside one hour of one day of one week for worship, but to seek the things of the spirit every moment of every day. I ask you, then: What did these people do to seek spiritual enlightenment and rapture? Did they just give in to a life that was little more than work? They were given a choice every day of their lives-as you will be given a choice to seek the rapture of the Spirit or to resign yourselves to a life of meaningless work. The end result is always the same: forgotten graves and forgotten dreams of forgotten people. It is not important that anyone notice or remember, but that you work to touch God and affect in a positive way the consciousness of the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things, thus bringing the consciousness of man closer to the Creator."
http://www.crawford2000.co.uk/prophecies-apache-indian-hopi-2012.htm
Post by: SimPattyK on November 08, 2011, 03:52:23 PM
I also hope there won't be any misunderstandings like that between us. I like you too much, you're a clever girl and you post wonderful things, most of the times our posts show us how much we think alike! so I don't see why we won't be able to get along very well.
Much love to you!
blessings
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 08, 2011, 04:13:13 PM
People are dying every were even if is FULL of HOSPITALS and FULL of DOCTORS,
Injustice is every were even if is FULL of LAWYERS and TRIBUNALS,
REAL KNOWLEDGE is foreign to us even if is FULL of SCHOOLS, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES,
We have not REAL information,just gossip :x ,even if is FULL of REPORTERS,CHANNEL TELEVISION and NEWSPAPERS,
People are going loosing spirituality and faith ,even if is FULL of PRIESTS and CHURCHES.
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase" (Daniel:12:4).
100% agreed
just on a side note, today i was at the hospital and in 10 minutes 3 funeral cars were leaving the hospital. it was very difficult to watch, so many people die in that hospital, even if it's one the best in the country :(
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 04:15:55 PM
@applehead250609: thank you for writing what you wrote. I really appreciate it!
I also hope there won't be any misunderstandings like that between us. I like you too much, you're a clever girl and you post wonderful things, most of the times our posts show us how much we think alike! so I don't see why we won't be able to get along very well.
Much love to you!
blessings
Simpa silly me :oops:,Oh my I just saw I forgoy to put the video,sorry :(!!!! Here it is:
Quote
This video is special for you,it clearly say MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,even on the PAPERS!!!! Michael is doing V sign when he is coming out from the arrest.
If people didn't knew now it's perfect time to say this :
That BIG WHITE AIRPLANE is MICHAEL's airplane,lol !!!!!!
Michael Jackson's arrest 2003
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOudWnu6j0E[/youtube]
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 04:46:06 PM
Well -well. See! LOL that Murray will be locked up away from other prisoners. lolol/
I refuse to watch any TV coverage. When I want to catch up, I come here. I can't even go to Lipstick Alley and other boards - because those people just don't get it. Great points made by a lot of you. Sadly, there are a few laggards that are still trying to figure out of MJ is alive or not for God sakes. 'What Will It Take?' For those ones even if MJ came back, they'd need a dna test.
DOC Murray was acting like the character in “To Kill a Mockingbird” = MJ. He represents MJ and all other black mean that were falsely accused and the hundreds that were hung from trees. No one knows if that is truly a real person’s face. Let’s not forget “Ghosts.” MJ played the Mayor and no one knew it until………………………….. I say this to say that the pics we have seen of Murray were planted, and he could be made up so that MJ can also be made up with the same face. MJ is an expert now on make-up and masks compared to when he did Ghosts.
Remember the young lady that was with him on the beach is the same one (actress) that was with Blanket and them last summer in so-called Hawaii (Wonderland)? LOL! So in other words, this man – DOC Murray was probably made up – and at times it is MJ himself. Just because we’re shown pics of Murray walking down the street doesn’t means that it was happening in real time. Most of the video we got of Murray was taken by NPG/TMZ. They are the only ones that can swear by dates and times – and they can be manipulated.
This means that MJ could have been made up to look like Murray and was seen walking around wearing stilts – and especially that day that he was walking – and the way he was swinging his arms reminded some of MJ. Does anyone remember the video of Murray walking and swinging his arms just like MJ used to do? I knew then that if that wasn’t MJ in stilts. Not only that though, but with certain cameras and shots, one can surely make the person captured appear to be taller – no?
MJ also sang about DOC Murray in his Moonwalker Smooth Criminal video and song. What are the odds? One should read up on Serenitys_Dream take about this fact.
I love the below video. When MJ jumped on that SUV, I was like – you go boy. He seemed very strong. So when I want him to touch my heart I watch it. The Nancy Graces of the world hated him for this. Many folks cracked on him for doing this. Too bad! MJ knew he was innocent – and I truly believe God and/or his Angel informed him that he was not going to be found guilty. These rabid and evil haters wanted to lock him up, thrown away the key and to steal his fortune to include Neverland that is rumored to have oil on premises.
Let me give one of my insights right here. MJ could care less about material goods in the long run. He knows, like I hope we all do that – we can’t take them with us when we pass on. The thing is many of us won’t be passing on thru death but thru Ascension. There it’ll be the same thing. No materialism. No money. No this and no that will be in the 5th World – 5th Dimension. MICHAEL JACKSON COULD CARE LESS ABOUT MATERIAL GOODS. He knows what is up. He has already given up all of his worldly goods in his mind because HE THINKS MULTIDEMISIONALLY. He doesn’t’ think like most human beings. He already knows the truth as his children and loved ones know the truth. Paris - tweeting about 11/11 Prince - Avatar = Alien on Twitter page. Omer - one word in CAPS = ASCENSION. Donte - Tumblr page (My God) & Diana wearing a (Shimmering - word used by writer) Cosmic gown that looked like two galaxies colliding at a recent concert. Why who told her to wear that I wonder? Who did she ask to sew it up for her? LOL! Pretty significant to me. Pretty telling. Pretty interesting. Pretty spot on - and on and on. No coincidences.
I figured that MJ had gathered them all (different times I’m sure) to include, Berry Gordy, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson (Motown Family - he loves very much) - and a few others that spoke at his Memorial. MJ paid for David Ruffin's and Marvin Gaye's funerals. He's met them at nine years old. I remember Eddie Kendrick (Temptations) once wrote about how Michael used to ask him questions, and one day he was playing something on the piano - and then he said Mike was like - "oh I see, move over." Eddie said MJ knew what came next and just took over. He said MJ was super quick when it came to things like that. He just knew. It was like he didn't have to study. I think he is an Old Soul. Many of the Motown people referred to him as such. He was always a knower. He had SWAG too at ten years old to see the way he was macking on Diana back then. LOL! He had more swag than Jackie did back then.
This is another reason I used to and sort of still shake my head at some people (and I don’t mean only on here) when they made out like the Jacksons were going after MJ’s fortune and that is all they wanted. Hello. Wake up! The Jacksons also know what is up – and that there is no materialism in the 5th world. Heck, please read Dr. Stankov’s book The Cosmic Laws of Creation and Destruction – and you’ll learn that the hell planet B (remaining planet after the spilt) will be hell on earth in more ways than one. No communication folks. No phones. No internet. No TVs. No infrastructure. The density of the remaining planer B won’t be able to supply such things because the remaining earth grid will change and so on. So what will even left for the ones remaining on the catastrophic earth? Nothing, but evil and further decay and debasement. People killing and eating each other to survive and so on. Surely, some don’t want to read such things – but you must wake up and take off those rose colored glasses. Those days are over. This is what Michael wanted us to learn. He wants us to wake up, be alert and aware and choose wisely. Paradise or hell (like all religious books inferred when speaking about Heaven and hell).
I think he is an Ascended Human Master (even if only in spirit) – and he will be in the first group of AHMs to come before humanity to explains to us what is up and what was up for the last umpteen thousand years. He is going to live up to his calling – no question – and he’ll help to guide us to the light. We’ll see him again. Give him time. Wow – if one were to believe Stankov – the MOON WAS TAKEN OVER BY THE FORCES OF LIGHT TWO YEARS AGO. Say what?!!!!!!!! Hmmmmmmm. MJ had to have a reason to have called his book Moonwalker. You been walking on the moon MJ? Omer/Obee sung in Red Nikes – “No one is close to him. He’s on another planet.” I’m open to believing in anything that sounds true to me – although I’m not saying that I believe everything. I just store it in my computer brain and pull it back up for reference/fact/truth or speculation as needed. I could also add wonderment, supposition and a bunch of more adjectives. All I know is that I fell in love with MJ when he was 9 years old because of his angel voice and his charm. I’ve prayed a lot lately that he is still in love with God – and it seems that all my dreams are still true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNyiFz9_-OY
P.S. – I love the below piece – and the excerpts below stand out and remind me of what MJ has always tried to do and that was to wake and guide us to the LIGHT. INFORMATION = LIGHT. LIGHT = TRUTH. TRUTH = GOD. GOD = LOVE.
FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real. That’s what this trial and MJ’S in 2005 was ALL about. It was incredulous that those people/clowns brought such falsified evidence up against MJ and made it appear real. We knew it could be done, but the evil minds that ensured they did it were just…………….
I remember Donte posted something along the lines that we should not hate the ones that commit evil. (Of course, I’ve known that all along, but it is so refreshing to see the young ones MJ’s relatives – lol – they may be good old Star Seeds) say as much. He said that - one should just be glad that one’s not like that. And while it sounds nice to say that we should love everyone, no one deserves our love unconditionally on 3-D earth. We have been too busy learning the lesson that we need to love and forgive ourselves unconditionally before that can be afforded anyone else, and so be it and “Let it Be”, it’ll be par for the course in 5-D.
Below is a great piece by an Apache Shaman from the 1920s. The below quotes from Part II could easily be applied to Michael.
"If a man could make the right choices," he said, "then he could significantly alter the course of the possible future. No man, then, should feel insignificant, for it only takes one man to alter the consciousness of mankind through the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things. In essence, one thought influences another, then another, until the thought is made manifest throughout all of Creation. It is the same thought, the same force, that causes an entire flock of birds to change course, as the flock then has one mind."
Grandfather then spoke. "Who are these people; who is this boy? What did they work for and what were their hopes, dreams and visions? Did they just work physically or did they work for the things beyond the flesh, for a grander purpose? Certainly they affected the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things, but did they really work to the best of their ability to make things better for the future of their grandchildren, or did they do nothing other than to perpetuate the myth of society? Were they happy, joyous and filled with spiritual rapture, or did they just lead lives of labour and mediocrity? And did this boy live close to the Earth and the Creator, or did he just give up his youth, his sense of adventure, to toil, as did his parents and their parents before them? This boy was exactly your age, and I suspect he had hopes and dreams much like yours. But this is his legacy, lying in a forgotten grave."
"But, Grandfather," I said, "isn't it enough just to be happy and live your life fully?
After a long moment of silence, Grandfather answered. "It is not enough that man be just happy in the flesh, but he must also be happy and joyous in spirit. For without spiritual happiness and rapture, life is shallow. Without seeking the things of the Spirit, life is half lived and empty. And by spiritual life I do not mean just setting aside one hour of one day of one week for worship, but to seek the things of the spirit every moment of every day. I ask you, then: What did these people do to seek spiritual enlightenment and rapture? Did they just give in to a life that was little more than work? They were given a choice every day of their lives-as you will be given a choice to seek the rapture of the Spirit or to resign yourselves to a life of meaningless work. The end result is always the same: forgotten graves and forgotten dreams of forgotten people. It is not important that anyone notice or remember, but that you work to touch God and affect in a positive way the consciousness of the Spirit-that-moves-in-all-things, thus bringing the consciousness of man closer to the Creator."
http://www.crawford2000.co.uk/prophecies-apache-indian-hopi-2012.htm
OMG :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( what you just said in the first PART OF YOUR POST!!!!!!!!!!!
Why I felt that pain in 25 june 2009,why!??????? Why I'm crying all over again and I feel this ROAD that will LEAD ME HOME it's gonna be very HARD TO WALK?????
What will happen to the people that I LOVE,with my family if they don't want to change :(????
Post by: wishingstar on November 08, 2011, 04:58:41 PM
the case number given by the court clerk: FA073164
FA = 7
also 7+3+1+6+4= 21 (7+7+7)
so....we have 7 777
also just for fun, I put in the letters SPH...those are the letters you take out of Joseph to make Joe:
SPH= 43 = (4+3=7) it also equals the word: false
Just a curious thing........
Blessings
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
MJ's handwriting Best of Joy lyrics with 11 11 11, which now connects 2 airing of Murray documentary. Sharon Sidney of MJ was kidnapped fame, is anonymous person in this story. Watch video: www.MichaelJacksonINsider.com posted 7 months ago. Now you know the end of this story!
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/443770476.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1320795236&Signature=A7KZag5aqULi2vgc8vjFCGl8nlc%3D)
"Michael's" "Best of Joy" Lyrics' Clue & more!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ylqotGeazM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/443734337.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1320795290&Signature=2SxZ9sZ1rfwN6oGeIEPgA0h1%2BvU%3D)
This note was written by Michael Joe Jackson in June 2009. He writes "Universal" as a "thing to accomplish" and we know the Dr. Murray documentary will air on MSNBC, which is owned by Universal on 11-11-11. And more importantly, the original imdb.com page listing the Murray documentary had Michael Jackson listed as director. I had that image saved but now I can't open it, but I'll keep trying.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 08, 2011, 05:09:35 PM
People are dying every were even if is FULL of HOSPITALS and FULL of DOCTORS,
Injustice is every were even if is FULL of LAWYERS and TRIBUNALS,
REAL KNOWLEDGE is foreign to us even if is FULL of SCHOOLS, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES,
We have not REAL information,just gossip :x ,even if is FULL of REPORTERS,CHANNEL TELEVISION and NEWSPAPERS,
People are going loosing spirituality and faith ,even if is FULL of PRIESTS and CHURCHES.
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase" (Daniel:12:4).
100% agreed
just on a side note, today i was at the hospital and in 10 minutes 3 funeral cars were leaving the hospital. it was very difficult to watch, so many people die in that hospital, even if it's one the best in the country :(
Gina I know this is TRAGIC,but unfortunately is true.We have to be STRONG,please do it for your family,go to them and tell them you LOVE THEM!!!!! This will be HARD but we HAVE a MISSION TO ACCOMPLISH and WE WILL DO :mrgreen: IT!!!
I saw that you had been in hospital,I'm sorry :cry:,please take care of you .GOD BLESS YOU!!!!
Post by: lilwendy on November 08, 2011, 05:10:10 PM
http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-guilty-my-thoughts/
My reaction to the verdict of Conrad Murray: Guilty!
I knew this could happen, I suspected it would happen, and this does not change anything for me in my belief that MJ is alive.
Let me back up on my thoughts on this.
In 1993 and 2005, Michael Jackson was brought forth into the judicial system on molestation charges. I’m sure it boggled not only MJ’s mind, and his family’s mind, but also MJ’s friends and fans’ minds that Michael Jackson, an innocent man, could find himself in the position to even be brought to trial.
Really, think about this. Think if it was you. Someone accuses you of something that is so far from your nature that you in your mind think, this is absolutely ludacris and no one will believe this. However, as the days goes on you realize that people are starting to believe the lies. Even more hurtful is some of the people who claimed to love and know you are believing it too. Then the last straw is as you enter into the court room, “evidence” has been fabricated to support the lies.
I’m sure the question on MJ’s mind would be: how in the hell could the judicial system be so corrupt as to allow a completely innocent man to wind up in court and possibly convicted of something completely fabricated? Challenge is the only people who would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that MJ is innocent would be MJ himself and his accusers. Oh and most importantly, God.
By God’s grace, MJ was found not guilty. That does NOT erase the fact that it could have gone the other way and MJ, AN INNOCENT MAN, could have gone to jail for a crime that he did not commit…. All in the name of money.
How many other people have been wrongly convicted and it had gone unnoticed? How many others have lost their lives due to being framed for something they didn’t do!
I believe that MJ would want to expose this corruption and speak for those men and women wrongly convicted who were now voiceless.
Enter hoaxville.
From the start I have said that this is not just a game. Many ARG’s have been constructed that have an element of social awareness…. Open our eyes to the true state of the world. I believe MJ is doing that right now.
How could it be displayed that the judicial system could actually wrongly find someone guilty of a crime that they beyond doubt did not commit? And how could it be displayed on such a grand scale that people would have to take notice?
How about murdering one of the most recognizable faces in the world? Oh but wait, then proving that he didn’t do it by producing the victim as being alive.
To me Conrad Murray HAD to be found guilty to PROVE that there is something wrong with the way things are done.
So for many this verdict is virtually the end. Justice for MJ! To me it’s just entering a new phase of getting true justice. Not just for MJ but for we the people who are supposedly protected by a flawed system.
So people keep your seatbelts on…. I don’t believe this ride is over…. The best is yet to come!
Post by: scorpionchik on November 08, 2011, 05:49:30 PM
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
So you say, Michael was really a drug addict. Murray is with the evil side who had been trying to kill Michael and he was trying to kill Michael for real fueling him with drugs but Michael found out about the plan and made him fall into his own trap and therefore Murray is in jail now. And also you say that, Murray's speech on youtube which is exactly like Michael's is just a coincidence. Sorry Scorpion but this means that you missed what a LONG TERM, perfect plan this is! Michael started to give out clues about this hoax at least 20 years ago. It looks like you didn't get any of them and therefore you think Murray is a real killer and Michael arranged a plan in a hurry to get him. You need to start thinking BIGGER and stop thinking Michael is a fragile drug addict. There is so much more than you can imagine. And this is NOT such a simple plan which was decided in a short term. You're missing the important points of the hoax.
Hon, I did not miss anything, I am too realistic and love rationale. Michael is NOT drug addict, what was those bottles about, still not clear since I do not wish to IMAGINE anything. Nobody knows everything for sure but Michael and those who assisted him, I'll wait for the time.
Post by: scorpionchik on November 08, 2011, 05:53:56 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
Post by: looking4truth on November 08, 2011, 08:03:20 PM
Looking4truth good post about Kangaroo Court, as it's very relevant now. The Kangaroo Court definition states everything including, obviously, that the verdict is predetermined. Meaning EVERYone involved knew the eventual verdict, hence Murray's lack of emotion. Flanagan was asked by an HLN reporter was he shocked by the verdict, and he said "no". If he was really fighting for Murray's innocence, unless he feels he did a crappy job, it was known all along. They also said "alleged" victim and "alleged" date of death when reading the verdict, hadn't heard that before. Not only didn't he stand, but he sat while being arrested. Also, watch other verdicts being read, they DO say "action" vs. case as the OJ trial is an example.
And yes, Murray has to be a key player in this hoax, just as the doctor was in 'The Illusionist'. My only issue is all of the civil suits pending and why against the people who are involved, i.e AEG/Murray? So perhaps TS can answer that? :)
Thanks Suzy! I think you are right that if the verdict was predetermined than that means key players are in on it. I am not sure, however, if everyone involved is though. I would have to think that one through. It could be possible but that's a lot of people involved, too many in my honest opinion but you never know. I wouldn't put anything pass Michael at this point. Also, great point about Dr. Murray not being asked to stand for his verdict...thanks to everyone who pointed this out as well. To me, that is the cherry on top of this fake trial.
Nearly a year ago, I wrote the following; but some are forgetting it, once again. “I have said the following more than once before, but people seem to quickly forget it; so I am going to end by repeating this one more time. Jermaine said: ‘it’s all going to come out’ (and this was in the context of the ‘airport’ slip-up); until it does all come out, keep the faith NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.0)}.
Anyway, as far as the 6-9-09 date: clear back in 2009, I wrote about the significance of the Dome Project “ending on 6-9-09, exactly three months before 9-9-09” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=14529.0)}.
GINAFELICIA and looking4truth had excellent comments about the Kangaroo Court {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369336#msg369336)}. Also, the toy elephant was still in plain sight, while the zoo verdict was being read {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qT5p6aX00)}.
And did anyone notice that the verdict was not only on the date 11-7 (1+1+7 = 9); but the time was also 1:17? I guess this is just another one of the million ko-inki-dinks! suspicious// You can see the 1:17 time on HLN {http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/03/conrad-murray-trial-verdict-watch-live-blog)}. You can also see it on this thread, from Suzy7 posted at 18 minutes and 15 seconds (the hour was 1 PM CA time); no doubt it took at least 15 seconds to write “Verdict is guilty” and get it posted, especially since the forum was running slow at the time—as noted by a few others on this thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369252#msg369252); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369261#msg369261)}.
Speaking of verdict times, did we ever figure out the exact minute for the 2005 verdict? And did anyone happen to notice the time that this thread was originally posted (since I always post new threads at specific times, and often as some type of new clue)?
Finally, did anybody notice what TMZ said about Murray in solitary confinement? “We’re told Murray will be assigned a single cell for his own protection … Officials tell us Murray will not be allowed to mingle with the general inmate population …” {http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/dr-conrad-murray-keep-away-prisoner/)}. Maybe NPG will get a photo of him walking on the beach again, while he is supposed to be in jail! moonwalk_/
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
Well, well, well...what a pleasant surprise. I thought you would let this verdict "simmer" for a little while longer before making your appearance again so it's really nice to see you. And thanks so much for your compliment of Gina and I's posts on the Kangaroo Court. It's great to receive some confirmation on our points. In addition, I wish to challenge your 117 theory. On TMZ, the verdict was posted 1:15PM. (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-verdict-guilty/) Now how could TMZ post the theory before it was read at 1:17PM? Or am I missing something? Even with TMZ's time, it still holds significance to this adventure because it adds up to 7. Also, TMZ posted MJ's "death" minutes before the hospital's declared it. Is this two minute separation a reminder of that fact or just a simple mistake on someone's part?
Post by: Suzy7 on November 08, 2011, 08:08:53 PM
TS helps everyone in having a more direct, literal understanding of things, whilst Front etc., give us 'clues' in a riddle/metaphorical and still light-hearted way. It allows us to think in multiple ways.
If,
TS = Front, and
Front = BACK, then
BACK = Michael?
And who knows what other users could be this same person.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 08, 2011, 08:43:09 PM
And the TMZ article? Hmm...
MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13. He referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?
There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!
Post by: looking4truth on November 08, 2011, 09:43:29 PM
Looking4truth, good points again, but not everyone in court has to be in direct knowledge of their participation in the hoax. Perhaps they know something but not everything. They allegedly had a privacy clause in place BEFORE the gag order for a reason. This was mentioned on HLN by an attorney who stated -to paraphrase- "something must have been put in place beforehand that we (media) had no knowledge of, which was 'violated' and in turn caused the placement of a gag order." If there was a contract that had to have been signed by people participating, then what they 'know' shouldn't be revealed; probably not now or ever if they are still under a contract that was unknown. I also dont think too many people "in the know" directly, is a good thing.
And the TMZ article? Hmm...
MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13.
21/3 =777
But he referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?
There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!
Thanks again Suzy! Great points again... if they had to a sign a contract for something confidential then we will never know for what because it is confidential. However, it still does not mean they know anything about the hoax. The jurors may have thought that signing this agreement is normal for a high profile case such as Michael's and Michael could've used this ignorance to his advantage by formulating a fake official court document for the jurors to sign to keep their mouth shut on anything involving the case period or certain things surrounding the case. Again, we will not know what exactly is in the contract if it was meant to keep something confidential. I think only Michael will be able to tell that part if he has to, since Jermaine is saying everything will come out; perhaps the 'how' questions will be addressed too in time...or maybe not. It doesn't have to be answered in order to leak all the information surrounding this conspiracy around Michael and his family. And great matching of the trial time versus the time TS posted this. So perhaps, the clue is this trial is in reference to the 2005 trial. It's a vague clue but maybe it's signaling that this trial is picking up where the 2005 trial left off or signaling what Michael would've done if he was found guilty like Dr. Murray (a point I made in another thread recently).
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 09, 2011, 01:43:12 AM
Quote
The DA did not prove his theory beyond a reasonable doubt. The IMPACT will be great if this jury finds him Guilty. It will be a travesty that the jury failed at taking it all in. If they find him Not Guilty then the system worked. This part of the hoax in my opinion is not scripted for the jury. This is a test of all tests and depending on how it turns out there will be lessons taught regardless of which verdict.
I read the comments on this thread TIAI September 27 and it takes a while for me to read all of the comments. I have also been experiencing pc issues with slowness so it has taken me some time to compose this comment. I am going to expand on what I have always thought from the start of conversations on Murray and a Guilty verdict.
1. I agree 100% that if Murray had been found Not Guilty it would have caused riots therefore I believe the jury convicted on that fear of riots which is an emotional conviction. The jury did not want to be known as the jury who caused a horrible aftermath. Although the jury was told not to read or do all the other things the judge said not to do while not in court this jury had been exposed to everything regarding this case. The media, family, Murray, etc. helped to plant info that would remain in the juries mind while deliberating. The Casey Anthony trial was fresh and it was being said that the jury made a mistake with their verdict. Many people are angry over the decision and there has been backlash. The Murray jury did not want that kind of stuff to happen because of them.
2. There is way more to this Guilty verdict in regards to emotional based conviction. This is what I said from the beginning: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,18688.msg326571.html#msg326571
Quote
The list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.
Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:
It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.
The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.
I will explain more below about the mind games played to ensure a Guilty verdict.
3. It is my belief that the jury did not take everything into consideration and based their decision on closing arguments from the DA especially the part about MJ's kids not having their father anymore. I believe this jury allowed their emotions to take over and the DA made sure to plant subliminal heart tugging sad stuff.
I believe the jury convicted Murray because of them seeing MJ's fam in the court house, the jury felt like they owed a Guilty verdict for the fam especially seeing Katherine in the court room, that helped to ensure a Guilty verdict. Murray's own words and actions helped to convict him. The wording asked/explained to the jury allowed for a Guilty verdict. Page 8-10 on the pdf. http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf
I had posted the jury instructions in this link:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg368781#msg368781 I had put videos of the closing arguments and the judge speaking the jury instructions.
So in saying that I am now moving onto the Kangaroo Court.
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court
Quote
A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.First the Kangaroo Court by it's definition says it's a sham legal proceeding or court.
A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
right to control one's own defense e.g. selecting one's own defense counsel
right to hear a full and precise statement of the charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right not to incriminate oneself
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality, prejudice or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right to have no interference or undue influence made by external agencies e.g. political or military leaders
right of appeal against conviction
Definition of sham:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sham
Quote
1 : a trick that deludes : hoax <feared that the deal was a sham>The basis for the sham used in Murray's trial was the hoax that MJ is dead and Murray did it.
2 : cheap falseness : hypocrisy <saw through the hollowness, the sham, the silliness of the empty pageant — Oscar Wilde>
3 : an ornamental covering for a pillow
4 : an imitation or counterfeit purporting to be genuine
5 : a person who shams
Examples of SHAM
He claims that the trial was a sham.
Their marriage was a sham.
Many people believed he could help them, but I knew he was a sham.
She exposed their sham and hypocrisy.
"The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.
The outcome was essentially determined in advance by going through the motions of a MANIPULATED procedure. The defense ensured the Guilty verdict by their bumbling acts in court. They made themselves appear incompetent. The verdict was ensured by Murray's own words, the police interview, the taping of MJ on May 10th, the things he did in the hospital, his lack of telling no one about the propofol after 911 was called. All the things the defense side did during trial and before plus what Murray did before hand ensured a Guilty Verdict. Choosing the right jurors to sit in the jury box during the trial. Ex: MJ fans.
Psychology was definitely used. There are many different ways to use it on people to ensure a predictive programming outcome. Those who know how to do this have used it during this hoax. MJ is a very astute student. He not only studied the greats but human nature as well. His whole life he studied how people act and what makes them do certain things based on certain things done to evoke the desired reaction. During his career of entertainment he knew which things to do to make people go nuts for him and his music. He knew how to make them want more, he knew how to create a frenzy leaving people wanting more by holding back things and prolonging the suspense. He let it simmer. During his concerts he stood motionless for a long time while the crowd screamed in anticipation.
He definitely knows what predictive programming does to create an outcome. Even if he didn't know this, just by watching people's reactions to certain things will determine a predictive outcome.
From birth we have been manipulated by media and other things as we grew up. The T.V. has programmed us how to think, what to wear, what to eat, how society expects us to behave, what is considered cool and what is not cool. Now a days being a drunk slut is considered cool for women. There is alot more to this but I am already writing a book here. Knowing about the mind control techniques that our own governments use on us also have been used for this hoax to get a certain reaction from us. Below are some examples of manipulating people. I am not a genius but I am a people watcher and I can see that this has been done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare
Quote
Various techniques are used, by any set of groups, and aimed to influence a target audience's value systems, belief systems, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
The U.S. Department of Defense defines psychological warfare as:
"The planned use of propaganda and other psychological actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior of hostile foreign groups in such a way as to support the achievement of national objectives."
Quote
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself or one's group.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda is often biased, with facts selectively presented (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, or other type of agenda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Social_psychology
Quote
Social psychologyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control
The field of Social Psychology includes the study of persuasion. Social psychologists can be sociologists or psychologists. The field includes many theories and approaches to understanding persuasion. For example, communication theory points out that people can be persuaded by the communicator's credibility, expertise, trustworthiness, and attractiveness. The elaboration likelihood model as well as heuristic models of persuasion suggest that a number of factors (e.g., the degree of interest of the recipient of the communication), influence the degree to which people allow superficial factors to persuade them. Nobel Prize winning psychologist Herbert Simon won the Nobel prize for his theory that people are cognitive misers. That is, in a society of mass information people are forced to make decisions quickly and often superficially, as opposed to logically.
Social cognitive theories suggest that people have inherent biases in the way they perceive the world and these biases can be used to manipulate them. For example, people tend to believe that people's misfortune (e.g., poverty) is a result of the person and downplay external factors (e.g., being born into poverty). This bias is referred to as the Fundamental Attribution Error. The self-fulfilling prophecy relates to people's tendencies to stick with their original theories even when evidence proves their theories are incorrect. This tendency is sometimes referred to as confirmation bias (see list of cognitive biases). Propaganda frequently plays upon people's existing biases to achieve its end. For example, the illusion of control, refers to people's seemingly innate desire to believe they can and should control their lives. Propagandists frequently argue their point by claiming that the other side is attempting to take away your control.
Role theory is frequently used to identify an idea as appropriate because it is associated with a role. For example, the public relations firm Leo Burnett Worldwide used the Marlboro Man to persuade males that Marlboro cigarettes were a part of being a cool, risk-taking, cowboy rebel who was fearless in the face of threats of cancer. The campaign quadrupled sales of their cigarettes. Of course, smoking has nothing to do with being a cowboy or a rebel. This is a fantasy but the campaign's success is consistent with the tenets of role theory. In fact, the three actors who played the Marlboro man died of lung cancer.
Quote
Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, mind abuse, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual "systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated".[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
5. Yesterday I went grocery shopping with my daughter so I was not watching any of the jury countdown, chat, or anything else. I came home around 3:30p.m. and turned the T.V. on to HLN and saw the verdict. My mouth fell open because my mind went to everything that will be exposed by this Guilty verdict. All I could say was OMG Fools.
The media talking heads got their wish, they get to continue to talk about this case way more than they would have if Murray walked. The docu that Murray has been taping will be more appealing now to show it. The media who denied it before will now be begging for it. The DA Steve Cooley spoke yesterday briefly to the media and the world. Fool, he did not take the time nor the opportunity that MJ and the FBI provided for him to figure out this was a hoax. Fool, Deputy DA Walgren did not take the time to figure out this was a hoax. Many more Fools like the fans outside the courtroom and sorry but some believers also fall into this category because the bigger picture here is how this court case has exposed the fact that innocent men (black) go to prison everyday.
MJ just exposed this. Even though it happens everyday, no one will be slapped harder in the face than the most famous man on the planet showing it to them. This is exactly why I have thought the Guilty verdict will be more of an IMPACT.
6. The FBI and MJ gave everyone an opportunity to figure out this was a hoax. The clues were provided to avoid entrapment. The in your face toys, La Toya's comment about The Illusionist movie, etc. All for the people to scratch their heads and wonder that something aint right.
7. I agree that the toys are odd in the courtroom. I believe that was MJ being a prankster for us the believers, he gave us entertainment during the trial. This was also another in your face wtf moments/clues for the public/anyone with half a brain to pick up on.
8. The numerology aspect of this is perfect and yes I agree some of it is planned but I also think as Elvis/Jesse thought/thinks about numerology playing a big part in his life even before he knew it. To me that says God is most definitely helping to control this hoax.
9. I explained today to my daughter (she is 18) about the theory of MJ being able to unclamp a roller on a IV line that was hooked up to a propofol bottle. I told her no other IV line was found that showed how that could happen. I said it was just a hypothetical situation. I explained to her how hard it would be for MJ to be able to draw up propofol using a syringe based on how Shafer told us. I explained how long one shot of 25mg. of propofol would keep MJ asleep, no longer than 15 minutes.
She has not been keeping up with the hoax except through me, she did not watch any of the trial. Her first comment to me after I told her all the info regarding the propofol death, she said MJ would have to have more than 25mg. I asked her why she said that and she said common sense told her.
That is the evidence that was completely overlooked by the majority and obviously the jury. That was one piece that gave reasonable doubt.
10. I am an American and I want the rights that have been given to us. One of those rights is a jury trial. Even though I don't think the system works all the time I still believed in the jury to do the right thing. I gave them to much credit. I am very disappointed. I am seeing the impact of this way different than most have expressed here. The mere fact that this jury found Murray Guilty is worrisome. Murray was convicted based on fake (sham court) evidence. What does that mean for the regular Joe Smoe?
Murray is proving a point according to MJ's wishes. Murray has back up to make sure he is comfy and well paid for his sacrifice. The average person does not and that is scary to me knowing that any one of my fellow American's could be rail roaded. I know that existed before this trial but the huge lesson the world will learn is exactly that. It did take for MJ to prove this because he knew his fame will make the world listen.
I also know the words to the song "They don't really care about us" has way more meaning than what some people think. I do think MJ is speaking about all of us when he says that but I also believe it is more personal. The fact that he was a victim of police brutality, putting him in a class of shame (the molestation charges trying to convict him with fake evidence), raping him of his pride, black man black mail put a brother in jail, (MJ is black and a black man is going to jail), looking to heaven to fulfill this prophecy.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12&version=NKJV
Quote
New King James Version (NKJV)
Daniel 12
Prophecy of the End Time
1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0pUfg8TxRY&feature=related[/youtube]
This song was the first one shown over and over during the promotion of This Is It. This is the song clip that had been shown over and over during trial, this song means alot and tells me alot about some of the reasons of the hoax.
I will come back and talk about the sting aspect, some of it is very obvious.
@TS-You definitely know when to appear. You have given those who needed your assurance not lose faith. Thank you for that. I don't bake so I can't offer stroopwaffles but I have a sucker left over from Halloween. LOL!
Post by: WhiteNight on November 09, 2011, 02:04:51 AM
This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax. As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.
If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’
This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans. The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.
I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.
“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about
I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…
…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…
…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”
Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:
Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’
“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”
Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.
As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)
I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) - It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.
But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!
BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!
Mjj4ever777: I know I don’t post very often but I read your posts as well and I appreciate them very much! I love ya bunches! *hugs*
MJ_ForeverandAlways: That was simply beautiful! I am so moved by your story! God bless you!
Sorry for such a long and late post. o_o; It took me a while to read everything on this thread.
Im_convincedmjalive: Woah! i just noticed your post! I must read it! I could not help but notice very interesting points that you have presented! I will read it later though. I'm a bit sleepy right now. It's 2am here (U.S. central time) @_@
Post by: curls on November 09, 2011, 02:09:11 AM
And in a strange way, even with MJ being alive, it was still the right verdict - Murray IS 'guilty' of helping/allowing MJ to 'die'! It was just in no way near the way that was described in court!
Post by: bec on November 09, 2011, 02:11:37 AM
Walgren says too many hoaxy catch phrases to not be in on it though. The altered death photos, the missing N in his powerpoint, the typos in his documents that go unnoticed (Robert W. Murray), the use of hoaxy phrases in the powerpoints also indicate to me that the Prosecution is being directed by MJ. Unless they are scripted and their visual aids are influenced by MJ with them not being directly aware, the Prosecution almost certainly has to be in on it.
[Off topic, who is it that marks the documents with the evidence letters? Whoever it is draws his/her L's as perfect little upside down 7's.]
But I agree, it had to be a Guilty verdict for maximum impact upon reveal. The script was written from the start with this verdict in mind. How could they acquit a Doctor who used anesthesia in a home with no monitoring, who gave one armed cpr on a bed and delayed calling 911? These things weren't denied by Murray from the start. They can't acquit with those "facts" on the table... unless no one died, and that fact is not apparent to most yet. That therein, lies the Sting on the media and the general public... and nearly all of his fans.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 09, 2011, 02:24:50 AM
Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.
I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?
Post by: MissG on November 09, 2011, 03:12:10 AM
Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.
I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?
Because as Curls said, he did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. As a Doctor he made the wrong choice administering propofol outside a hospital, no matter if the dose was not fatal. If the dose would have been given inside a hospital, the outcome would have been different imo.
Also in question was -what took him so long to call 911 but, being a Doc, I found his reaction normal. He asks others to call 911 meantime he does his job as a Doctor giving CPR.
In any case, if someone came in to the room and inyected MJ with propofol or any other drug available in that home that should not have been there on the 1st place, the Doctor is the one being responsable.
I know that in USA rich people can have their little private hospitals at home but i am not sure about the rules or if any license is needed to be able to do so.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 09, 2011, 03:20:35 AM
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?
In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?
So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 09, 2011, 03:23:48 AM
“Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality.” ~ Michael Ellner
This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax. As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.
If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’
This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans. The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.
I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.
“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about
I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…
…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…
…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”
Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:
Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’
“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”
Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.
As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)
I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) - It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.
But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!
BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!
Mjj4ever777: I know I don’t post very often but I read your posts as well and I appreciate them very much! I love ya bunches! *hugs*
MJ_ForeverandAlways: That was simply beautiful! I am so moved by your story! God bless you!
Sorry for such a long and late post. o_o; It took me a while to read everything on this thread.
Im_convincedmjalive: Woah! i just noticed your post! I must read it! I could not help but notice very interesting points that you have presented! I will read it later though. I'm a bit sleepy right now. It's 2am here (U.S. central time) @_@
WhiteNight thank you very much,it did a wonderful post respect/!!! I saw all your hoax-videos,why did you stop on making them :?:?????
Now about going BACKwards,I'm telling this from a long time now.Even before Steve Job's death.The only way TO CONNECT THE DOTS is going BACKwards,we must UNLEARN what we have LEARNED!!!!His speech is still with me,every day,and when I think at it,I don't know why but I feel A DEEP PAIN in my heart :cry:. It's something that I can't say,but is there :cry:.I had spoke about Steve Jobs many times ,and I think now is the right moment to tell you all something.Not many poeple knew that Mr. Jackson and Steve Jobs were friends, they spoke often. Mr.Jobs sent 12 iPhones to Michael , two weeks before they went on sale to the public.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iC3qYPpbdA0/To276TVMw0I/AAAAAAAAA-A/c8_sU-F13VY/s1600/321192_260543893983795_100000845587637_738046_1750798443_n.jpg)
Michael gave Bill and BJ iPhones for Christhmas and had them personally engraved.Who knows maybe Michael gave Bill a telephone,to replace the one he threw out on the window ;).
There is something with Steve Job's speech and what he said at one point :cry:.He said that out time is limited, so we should not WASTE OUR TIME ,by LIVING SOMEONES else's LIFE shock:!!!!!!.To not be TRRAPED BY DOGMA,which is LIVING with the RESULT OF OTHER PEOPLE's THINKING......and most IMPORTANT to have COURAGE to follow our HEARS an INTUITION,because THEY already know what you truly want to BECOME. Everithing ELSE IS SECONDARY :shock:!!!
I was thinking at what he said and I'm starting to believe that he was right.Do you understand what I mean????? Maybe is this what MICHAEL is trying to TEACH US ALSO!!!!
WE,the people of this planet ,are wasteig precious time with things that are not really important,like gossip,fights about who's RIGHT and who's WRONG,trials,war,newspapers,Tv,ETC,and we miss the most important,and that is OUR OWN LIFE,to do WHAT WE LIKE and our own FAMILY :cry: :cry: :cry:!!!!!Rememeber what Michael said in" HEAL THE WORLD " song????
"If You Want To Know Why
There's A Love That
Cannot Lie
Love Is Strong
It Only Cares For
Joyful Giving
If We Try
We Shall See
In This Bliss
We Cannot Feel
Fear Or Dread
We Stop Existing And
Start Living "
Post by: MissG on November 09, 2011, 03:38:51 AM
Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?
In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?
So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.
I guess the jury made an emotional decision. The evidences looked planted and the whole situation a mess, yes, but there are records of propofol bought by Murray(which he could have done for his hospital btw) and he admitted giving MJ propofol in MJ´s home. As a Doctor he should have known in which enviroment is legal to use propofol. Also, propofol must be given by a person who is qualified to do it i.e an anesthesiologist.
Murray never took the stand so we don´t know what he is or isn´t qualified to do or administer.
The real killer could be running free now but abandonment happened. If Murray went to the wc for a second, another person should have been there observing the patient. I understand that the man could not be 24/7 observing the person under his care, so MJ should have had 2 medical professionals. Doctor and nurse, or doctor and doctor or doctor+someone with basic medical knowledge, as a security guard is supossed to have.
So now that Murray is in jail (and I don´t agree with this) the rest needs to come out, starting with the bodyguards who were also there. Abandonment was the word used and I agree.
Post by: applehead250609 on November 09, 2011, 03:42:24 AM
Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?
In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?
So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.
Gina you are perfectly right ,my dear :lol: ;) !! The killer is walking free on Beverly Hills of Hollywood :?.The REAL killer is WALKING FREE ,and Doctor Conrad MURDER,excuse me Doctor Conrad Murray :lol: ,didnt killed his patient Mr.Michael Jackson :lol:!!! Our GOOD friend Willie Hampton was recently at Jane Valdez and he told EVERYTHING,in a word he had SPILLED THE BEANS OUT :lol: :lol:!!!! You all have to know THE TRUTH,HOLLYWOOD killed Michael Jackson :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!!!!
One more thing before I go ,it seems that Willie has forget his precious MUSTACHE at home /cook/ geek/!!!! I LOVE you all ;)!!!
Fans spar abourt Murray verdict
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmPydAbrB_c&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Post by: MJonmind on November 09, 2011, 03:59:52 AM
First I just want to say Im_convincedmjalive, that your post on the psychological persuasion going on in the trial and in the world around us was so well written and totally amazing!
/bravo/ I'll just add that David Walgren was easy to look at, which made him more persuasive. I remember it was said that a jurist in 2005 said that Katherine was glaring at them and intimidating with her looks, although it didn't change their minds. Murray complained early on that an MJ fan was glaring at him, and she was banned from the courtroom. All the things you listed could influence things either way depending on their particular weight/strength. The OJ trial had an impact in 2005, and the Casey trial had an impact on this trial. We humans are always being influenced one way or another, since we are a little like sheep. We can study these ways of thinking and actions all throughout history, changing people like the rolling ocean. But in this trial I think MJ created sort of like the "perfect storm" of a predicament/conundrum that would be the most challenging to solve, and controversial to fans and family in choosing sides to take.
Quote
Moonwalk: by Michael jackson/ Just Kids With A Dream
"I've always wanted to be able to tell stories, you know, stories that came from my soul. I'd like to sit by a fire and tell people stories make them see pictures, make them cry and laugh, take them anywhere emotionally with something as deceptively simple as words. I'd like to tell tales to move their souls and transform them. I've always wanted to be able to do that. Imagine how the great writers must feel,knowing they have that power.I sometimes feel I could do it.It's something I'd like to develop.In away,somewriting uses the same skills,creates the emotional highs and lows,but the story is a sketch.It's
quicksilver.There are very few books written on the art of storyttelling, how to grip listeners,how to get a group of people together and amuse them.No costumes, no makeup, no nothing, just you and your voice, and your powerful ability to take them anywhere, to transform their lives, if only for minutes.As I begin to tell my story, I want to repeat what I usually say people when they ask me about my earliest days with the Jackson 5: I was so little when we began to work on our music that I really don't remember much about it.Most people have the luxury of careers that start when they're old enough to know exactly what they're doing and why, but, of course, that wasn't true of me."
http://www.fanpop.com/spots/michael-jackson/articles/117794/title/moonwalk-michael-jackson-just-kids-with-dream (http://www.fanpop.com/spots/michael-jackson/articles/117794/title/moonwalk-michael-jackson-just-kids-with-dream)
Applehead, lol, it sounds from the video that the fans lynched Murray, and whose Hollywood anyway? But seriously if MJ truly was dead, they should have looked at Klein, AEG, Tohme, or it could even have been a hit man got in the house. And seriously I think that fan is authentic but that friend or is it patient of Murray is fake because CM is not his real name and so his patients are not real either.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 09, 2011, 04:07:24 AM
Im_convinced, 100% agreed with everything you said (except the DA part), as I have read all of your post's on this thread and my thoughts have been very much the same. You have done a great job on your 'sting court' side aswell, although I have said many times my belief is the sting is multidimensional.
Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting? ;)
I do think along with Gina, a not guilty verdict could have been possible. Take into consideration; the tampered evidence, house was left open to anyone, no syringe or IV/bag with propofol residue, no proof he was in room etc.
But, there was enough evidence for a guilty verdict due to gross negligence. Much like the real trial of Casey Anthony, both were actually possible.
Post by: diggyon on November 09, 2011, 05:26:53 AM
Haven't done this in a long time.....
the case number given by the court clerk: FA073164
FA = 7
also 7+3+1+6+4= 21 (7+7+7)
so....we have 7 777
also just for fun, I put in the letters SPH...those are the letters you take out of Joseph to make Joe:
SPH= 43 = (4+3=7) it also equals the word: false
Just a curious thing........
Blessings
That's great wishingstar..... I guess I need to learn from you some Mathematics
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 09, 2011, 05:33:37 AM
You know what, I really think the sentencing will be INTERESTING, will the defense appeal or will they not, who knows.
By the way does anyone know if they can only appeal before sentencing or can they appeal after the sentencing?
I have a feeling they won't appeal, but if they do and get granted a retrial and we have to go through it again, well, won't that be fun (no sarcasm).
Post by: diggyon on November 09, 2011, 05:38:18 AM
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 09, 2011, 05:43:22 AM
May be this is off topic now.....
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Good guess...lol
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on November 09, 2011, 06:45:59 AM
A Message from John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors of The Estate of Michael Jackson
The Estate of Michael Jackson and Michael himself has always believed the jury system works and despite the tragedy that brought about this trial we are in agreement with the jury's verdict. In this case Justice has been served. Michael is missed on a daily basis but his genius and his music will be with us forever. He is "the greatest entertainer that has ever lived"
Shouldnt it be he WAS and HAD .... that present tence again WTF??
opsie forgot the link http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/message-john-branca-and-john-mcclain-co-executors-estate-michael-jackson bangbang
Post by: curls on November 09, 2011, 07:08:54 AM
Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.
I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?
Because as Curls said, he did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
Thanks MissG for stepping in in my absence! People are confusing 'murder' with 'involuntary manslaughter' - legally there are differences which means Murray was guilty of involuntary manslaughter but not of murder.
If you want to go down the 'we don't know who killed him' route, which I think Gina, you said in a later post, well, yes, I agree they did not prove who killed MJ - and we know why! He isn't dead! Now if they'd really followed their investigations further maybe they would have reached that conclusion too - and maybe that's being saved for a further trial. Who Knows?!
Gina, as long as part of you still thinks MJ is dead, you're going to continue to have a hard time with all this. Doesn't the fact that the trial was based on assumptions, that no-one actually proved how the propofol levels at the supposed autopsy didn't match with what Murray said he administered, that all the defense had was a weak argument of MJ giving it to himself .... don't these things help you at all?
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 09, 2011, 07:13:42 AM
So if it doesn't make sense, something must be very wrong about it.
Level 7 really I can not guess anything. Not the date, not the subject.
I'm trying in vain to read TS' mind lolol/...he's blocking the "nosy" ones afraid/.
hmmmmmmmm /cook/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 09, 2011, 07:18:17 AM
Good or bad, I'm trying to think with what's left of my poor brain.
If I am wrong so be it.
Compared to michaeljackson.com this forum is a blessing, I mean I can say whatever stupid thing crosses my mind.
Post by: Sarahli on November 09, 2011, 08:06:00 AM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
It doesn't necessarily mean that Front and TS are the same PERSON but it's POSSIBLE they are on the same TEAM. Scorpionchick, if they were manipulating people, Souza would kick their butts and git rid of them, so I don't think we have to worry about that. Plus, both Front's and TS's authenticity has prevailed.
Post by: Sarahli on November 09, 2011, 08:09:42 AM
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cTJ3DqedueWR/766x575.jpg?fit=scale&background=000000)
Post by: monstertooty on November 09, 2011, 08:12:01 AM
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
Post by: looking4truth on November 09, 2011, 08:13:52 AM
And this was probably posted before but just wanted to reiterate. Here is the definition of involuntary manslaughter:
Quote
involuntary manslaughter
The act of unlawfully killing another human being unintentionally.
Most unintentional killings are not murder but involuntary manslaughter. The absence of the element of intent is the key distinguishing factor between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or while committing an act that is unlawful but not felonious.
Many states do not define involuntary manslaughter, or define it vaguely in common-law terms. Some jurisdictions describe the amount of Negligence necessary to constitute manslaughter with terms such as criminal negligence, gross negligence, and culpable negligence. The only certainty that can be attached to these terms is that they require more than the ordinary negligence standard in a civil case. With this approach the state does not have to prove that the defendant was aware of the risk.
Other jurisdictions apply more subjective tests, such as "reckless" or "wanton," to describe the amount of negligence needed to constitute involuntary manslaughter. In this approach the defendant must have personally appreciated a risk and then chosen to take it anyway.
There are two types of involuntary manslaughter statutes: criminally negligent manslaughter and unlawful act manslaughter. Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs when death results from a high degree of negligence or recklessness. Modern criminal codes generally require a consciousness of risk and under some codes the absence of this element makes the offense a less serious Homicide.
An omission to act or a failure to perform a duty constitutes criminally negligent manslaughter. The existence of the duty is essential. Since the law does not recognize that an ordinary person has a duty to aid or rescue another in distress, a death resulting from an ordinary person's failure to act is not manslaughter. On the other hand, an omission by someone who has a duty, such as a failure to attempt to save a drowning person by a lifeguard, might constitute involuntary manslaughter.
In many jurisdictions death that results from the operation of a vehicle in a criminally negligent manner is punishable as a separate offense. Usually it is considered a less severe offense than involuntary manslaughter. These jurisdictions usually call the offense reckless homicide, negligent homicide, or vehicular homicide. One reason for this lesser offense is the reluctance of juries to convict automobile drivers of manslaughter.
Unlawful act manslaughter occurs when someone causes a death while committing or attempting to commit an unlawful act, usually a misdemeanor. Some states distinguish between conduct that is malum in se (bad in itself) and conduct that is malum prohibitum (bad because it is prohibited by law). Conduct that is malum in se is based on common-law definitions of crime; for example, an Assault and Battery could be classified as malum in se. Acts that are made illegal by legislation—for example, reckless driving—are malum prohibitum. In states that use this distinction, an act must be malum in se to constitute manslaughter. If an act is malum prohibitum, it is not manslaughter unless the person who committed it could have foreseen that death would be a direct result of the act.
In other states this distinction is not made. If death results from an unlawful act, the person who committed the act may be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter even if the act was malum prohibitum. Courts will uphold unlawful act manslaughter where the statute was intended to prevent injury to another person.
Source: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/involuntary+manslaughter
Could Dr. Murray be considered guilty without reasonable doubt? I am not too sure. I am going to be neutral on this one until I think further on this.
Post by: fordtocarr on November 09, 2011, 08:14:44 AM
It's everyplace. Non-stop on my facebook. All over twitter. Everyone seems to have known Michael once again and is posting.
Arnie is cluing like crazy.
Murray and the damn docu.
TMZ.
It's finally all over the NEWS and press.
Tv is showing TII and HLN is still maxing out on anything Michael.
I who LOVE Michael as I love life, is sick of it all.
Honestly, I could post tweets and comments and articles on here 24 hours a day and not have enough time for them all.
So, I'm posting NONE.
I know you'll all find them for me, figure everything it all out and I'll read it then, cuz...it's too much.
It all reminds me of back in about 1984 when Michael said something about his timeline for releasing albums because he didn't want
people to get overwhelmed by the info out about him. NOT exact words, and there is a term for what he spoke about, but, anyhow, that's how I feel now. The world is going to get sick of all this and it won't matter.
Which, may be the plan.
Then, bam!
Post by: looking4truth on November 09, 2011, 08:19:34 AM
“Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality.” ~ Michael Ellner
This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax. As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.
If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’
This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans. The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.
I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.
“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about
I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…
…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…
…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”
Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:
Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’
“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”
Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.
As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)
I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) - It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.
But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!
BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!
Another great post. I especially LOVE that quote. Have to spread that one around a bit. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. And you guys are posting some really thought provoking posts lately especially in this thread. I'm enjoying every bit of it. :hugs:
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 09, 2011, 08:23:58 AM
We can demand more investigation but who's going to listen to us? The official truth is out there and largely accepted.
Post by: Andrea on November 09, 2011, 08:33:47 AM
I highly doubt that Murray is sitting in a jail cell right now. If Michael is to BAM before Jan 1 2013 then we've already waited longer for his return than the time left remaining. Ready when you are Michael!
Post by: BeTheChange on November 09, 2011, 09:15:27 AM
Some are getting 'caught up' on the 'fatal dose' issue...but again, the instructions are VERY clear in that even IF MJ administered the 'fatal dose' himself, or some other person came in and injected MJ with it, Murray CAN still be guilty IF he should have been able to 'foresee' the possibility of this happening. Based on Murray's own statement(s), he said he knew Mike 'liked to push it', he also knew there were others in the house, and he also knew that the room was littered with drugs. So the 'fatal dose' factor is a non-issue with a charge of involuntary manslaughter....IF he was being charged with murder, then the 'reasonable doubt' as to who administered the fatal dose would've and should've come into play....but he was not charged with that crime. Again, the instructions are VERY clear on this issue.
Like others, I tend to think that the DA is in on it (even if just Walgren) based on the 'odd' things that were said and done in court. But this 'script' was SO rock-solid for a guilty verdict (with the added bonus of a seemingly incompetant defense team)...that it probably wouldn't even have been necessary to have the DA in on it in order to ensure a guilty verdict. Based on what was presented in court (i.e. the 17 deviations from the standard of care, which were in many instances extreme deviations) the ONLY way IMO that this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' is if they either didn't understand the instructions OR they intentionally went against them.
Which takes us to the part in the instructions where the judge makes it VERY clear to the jury what they are 'allowed' to consider in their deliberations and what they're not...and the ONLY things they are to consider is ONLY what has been presented in court. It's 'easy' for us to notice discrepancies, inconsistencies, and/or outright 'fake' evidence...but we SEE everything through 'hoax-eyes'. It's hard to unring a bell once it's been rung...we have been awakened to all of the BS. Given the fact that 99% of the world thinks Mike is dead...odds are that all, or at least most, of the jury did too. But even IF they noticed that something wasn't quite right (and again, this would be difficult or 99% of the world wouldn't think Mike is dead)...but even IF they decided, for example, that the autopsy photo didn't look 'quite right' or any other 'evidence' presented in court for that matter....under THE LAW they are NOT allowed to look further into it on their own. The instructions, again, are VERY clear on this and we've discussed this very fact in this thread. The jury would've had to intentionally violate the instructions (the law) in order to research the 'oddities'....and IF they came back with a not guilty verdict based on their OWN research, the case is an automatic mistrial. It's a catch-22...in order to find the truth, they would've had to break the law....in breaking the law, the 'system' deems their 'truth' irrelevant.
And THAT, in itself, should shed light on one of the major flaws in the judicial system where juries are involved.
This is all just my opinion of course, but what the jury's verdict tells me is that they followed the law of the 'system' in making their decision....a 'system' that greatly limits a jury's ability to 'think for themselves'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 09, 2011, 09:22:21 AM
What kind of justice is this smiley_spider?
Post by: wishingstar on November 09, 2011, 09:34:15 AM
I posted a pdf file of the 'jury instructions' a few pages back but I'm not sure if people actually read them. Based on those instructions, I honestly cannot see how this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' of involuntary manslaughter. I may be missing something entirely or maybe misinterpreting the instructions (specifically the definition(s) under the 'Charged Crime' section)....but based on THOSE instructions/definitions, IMO the jury came up with the 'right' verdict (ANY jury that would've followed THOSE instructions in this case, would've and should've found any DOCTOR 'guilty' of involuntary manslaughter...regardless of age, sex, nationality, etc).
Some are getting 'caught up' on the 'fatal dose' issue...but again, the instructions are VERY clear in that even IF MJ administered the 'fatal dose' himself, or some other person came in and injected MJ with it, Murray CAN still be guilty IF he should have been able to 'foresee' the possibility of this happening. Based on Murray's own statement(s), he said he knew Mike 'liked to push it', he also knew there were others in the house, and he also knew that the room was littered with drugs. So the 'fatal dose' factor is a non-issue with a charge of involuntary manslaughter....IF he was being charged with murder, then the 'reasonable doubt' as to who administered the fatal dose would've and should've come into play....but he was not charged with that crime. Again, the instructions are VERY clear on this issue.
Like others, I tend to think that the DA is in on it (even if just Walgren) based on the 'odd' things that were said and done in court. But this 'script' was SO rock-solid for a guilty verdict (with the added bonus of a seemingly incompetant defense team)...that it probably wouldn't even have been necessary to have the DA in on it in order to ensure a guilty verdict. Based on what was presented in court (i.e. the 17 deviations from the standard of care, which were in many instances extreme deviations) the ONLY way IMO that this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' is if they either didn't understand the instructions OR they intentionally went against them.
Which takes us to the part in the instructions where the judge makes it VERY clear to the jury what they are 'allowed' to consider in their deliberations and what they're not...and the ONLY things they are to consider is ONLY what has been presented in court. It's 'easy' for us to notice discrepancies, inconsistencies, and/or outright 'fake' evidence...but we SEE everything through 'hoax-eyes'. It's hard to unring a bell once it's been rung...we have been awakened to all of the BS. Given the fact that 99% of the world thinks Mike is dead...odds are that all, or at least most, of the jury did too. But even IF they noticed that something wasn't quite right (and again, this would be difficult or 99% of the world wouldn't think Mike is dead)...but even IF they decided, for example, that the autopsy photo didn't look 'quite right' or any other 'evidence' presented in court for that matter....under THE LAW they are NOT allowed to look further into it on their own. The instructions, again, are VERY clear on this and we've discussed this very fact in this thread. The jury would've had to intentionally violate the instructions (the law) in order to research the 'oddities'....and IF they came back with a not guilty verdict based on their OWN research, the case is an automatic mistrial. It's a catch-22...in order to find the truth, they would've had to break the law....in breaking the law, the 'system' deems their 'truth' irrelevant.
And THAT, in itself, should shed light on one of the major flaws in the judicial system where juries are involved.
This is all just my opinion of course, but what the jury's verdict tells me is that they followed the law of the 'system' in making their decision....a 'system' that greatly limits a jury's ability to 'think for themselves'.
With L.O.V.E. always.
I must have completely missed that post BTC...thank you for posting it....I am off to work at the moment, but will read them asap :) today. From what little I know about how juries work, I can totally see your points......I had posted that LA Fire Dept handbook/log about how to fill out that paramedic report.....it too was full of contradictions and errors technically. LOVE U....miss chatting....will talk to you later today for sure ;)
Blessings....gotta run...
Post by: BeTheChange on November 09, 2011, 09:40:53 AM
Here is the relevant part in the instructions referencing this...and prior to this part in the instructions, the judge instructed the jury that THE LAW states that Murray, as MJ's doctor, had a legal duty to his patient (this is a recognized and undisputable 'fact' under the law).
Quote
There may be more than one cause of death. An act or a failure to perform a legal duty causes the death only if it is a substantial factor in causing the death. A substantial factor is more than a trivial or remote factor. However, it does not have to be the only factor that causes the death.
To relieve a defendant of criminal liability, an intervening cause must be an unforeseeable and extraordinary occurence. A defendant remains criminally liable for the death if either the possible consequence might reasonably have been contemplated or the defendant should have foreseen the possibility of harm of the kind that could result from his or her act.
The failure of the alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson or another person to use reasonable care may have contributed to the death. However, if the defendant's act or the defendant's failure to perform a legal duty was a substantial factor causing the death, then the defendant is legally responsible for the death even though Michael Joseph Jackson or another person may have failed to use reasonable care.
If you have a reasonable doubt whether the defendant's act or failure to perform a legal duty caused the death, you must find him not guilty.
Here's the link to the jury instructions for anyone interested:
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf)
@WishingStar...I miss our chatting too!!! I had put a lot of things 'on hold' in order to watch as much of the trial as I could....and now I'm backtracking to deal with them all lol, so I too have been busy. Hope to catch up soon bearhug Love you!
@WhiteNight...I just read your post and gotta say I loved it! Thanks for sharing.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: curls on November 09, 2011, 10:02:16 AM
Post by: curls on November 09, 2011, 10:17:26 AM
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
Post by: BeTheChange on November 09, 2011, 10:18:57 AM
BeTheChange, great post about the jury instructions regarding involuntary manslaughter - just what I've been trying to say, but you put it so well. Thanks!
Yup...it's all in the instructions. And IF there was any 'doubts' among the jury prior to deliberations, those instructions pretty much 'sealed the deal' for them. We are now hearing from jurors, which is not unusual (I was actually thinking they would've been given the option to speak right after the verdict in a 'press room' as I've seen done with other trials)....and at least one of them is saying that it was a quick, unanimous decision (no surprise there). I'm sure they were ready to render their verdict on the 4th....but since they didn't there's two possible options: 1) they are 'in on it' and therefore waited until the 7th so that it would 'fit' better with the numerology, or 2) they are not 'in on it' and were somehow made to postpone the verdict until the 7th (i.e. they could have been asked/told by the court to wait until Monday for whatever reason...and if so, they really wouldn't have had much choice). Either option, though, clearly points to a purposeful reading of the verdict on the 7th, which supports the 'hoax'. This is not only in regards to the date...but to the time of the verdict as well.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: bec on November 09, 2011, 10:37:27 AM
Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting? ;)
No, I've said for a year now I don't believe there is an FBI sting going on... the only set up for a sting I see is a sting against the media, the general public, and MJ's own fans. The Fan sting I started talking about when the Michael album came out with it's "fake" lyrics.
Post by: Shining light on November 09, 2011, 02:25:35 PM
Post by: Galina on November 09, 2011, 02:37:57 PM
Post by: Kristina4LOVE on November 09, 2011, 02:46:45 PM
Post by: Do on November 09, 2011, 02:47:52 PM
I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!
What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!
I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!
Post by: wishingstar on November 09, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
Dear MJ family,
I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!
What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!
I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!
Hey Do!!!
It's great to see you....I had always enjoyed reading your posts. I am glad to know you are still around and reading...lots to read for sure, lol. You are too sweet with your kind words.........what a bleepin' job interview process, lol!!!!!! :lol: But you do make an excellent point....the folks here are amazingly faithful to Michael and I think really do understand him well. Like Michael says....learn from the best ;) Thanks again......and great to see you!
Blessings!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 09, 2011, 03:09:53 PM
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
You got that right Curls, and he is saying "Follow the path of L.O.V.E now" Not follow the "Hoax" path.
My beautiful family, I LOVE you all so very much, and it just breaks my heart that so many of you are still "desperately" entangled in Michael and God's "spider web". (hoax) Until you start "thinking outside the box" you will never understand, that the whole Hoax part of this adventure is irrelevant in the Big picture.
The ultimate goal for Michael doing all of this, is to get us to re-evaluate our "lives" and to find that lost "LOVE" that is inside each and everyone of us! The longer people continue on the "Hoax" part of this journey, the longer they are putting off finding out the "Truth", of why Michael had to do what he had to do in order to get the world to "wake up" and see what their lives have become! The world will have no choice, BUT to look at everything they thought was a "reality" and realize that everything was really just an "Illusion". When Michael sang "we are here to change the world", he meant it!!! When Michael said that this is "all for LOVE", he meant it!!!! When he said "I'm going to show them "Talent", like they've never seen before", he meant that also!!!! The world isn't going to know what hit them!
If you are reading this, and you are still searching for answers, I am pleading with you to take a leap of Faith! If your current path isn't giving you the answers you've been searching for, why not "make a Change" and try another path??
A good investigator, looks at EVERY possibility...including the possibility, that Michael was sent to us by God, to help us transition into the next "age"...the "Golden age".
Is it just a "coincidence" that there are many of us here on this forum, who are sitting back, waiting and watching this all unfold, with no FEAR, and no worries, about what the outcome will be, because we just "KNOW"? There may be only a few of us here on this forum that have been "awakened", but you might be surprised at just how many of us there are all around the world, that are feeling this "shift" in our consciousness!! As far fetched as this may seem to you, It is really happening my dear family! If you truly BELIEVE that Michael has faked his "death", and pulled the wool over the eyes of the world, how is it that he was able to pull off something of this magnitude, without TPTB stopping him??
Michael IS invincible, because he is LOVE and he is LIGHT first and foremost. Michael knows the secrets of the universe, and my husband and I truly understand his "Divinity" and I was brought here to this forum strictly because of my strong Belief in LOVE, not because I was a Michael Jackson "Fan", because I was never a "Fan". That in and of itself, only solidifies, that I am connected to Michael because of LOVE...It is our "Common Bond" and he knew that! I came to this forum because of LOVE and I have been posting about LOVE since the beginning ...My Faith and Belief in Michael and LOVE has never wavered, and will never waver!
I have never strayed from the path of Love my whole life. LOVE and GOD, (not religion) are the only things I have ever truly believed in, and despite all of the abuse, and suffering in my life, I never gave up hope that someday I would understand what my purpose here on Earth was and I have always known that LOVE was all that really mattered in this "Material" world, but I never really understood what that meant. Today, I have all of the answers I have been looking for, and I am at "Peace", knowing that my Belief in LOVE and GOD, was not in vain.
Michael is "synonymous" with LOVE. Can you name one other person on this planet that has the ability to make everyone he comes in contact with, feel truly LOVED, like you have a personal relationship with him? This should tell you just how "special" Michael is, and maybe you owe it to yourself, to step out of the "hoax" part of this "adventure, and just research the possibility that Michael really is an "Ascended Master" who was sent from God our creator, to "awaken" the world to the Truth of who we really are, and to help us to transition into the "New Age".
I KNOW that Michael sees and hears everything. I have Never "Physically" met Michael, but I "Feel" him with me at all times, he is truly just another part of me..Michael IS LOVE...I am LOVE..."WE", are LIGHT and LOVE..."WE" are ONE!
If you want answers, you must look at "ALL"possibilities. You need to do some soul searching and re-awaken the LOVE that is buried inside you. Until you take the path "less" traveled, you will stay stuck in this "vortex" we call "REALITY". Michael is counting on his "Army of LOVE" not his "Hoax Army", LOVE is the answer to what you are all searching for!
To all of you who are on the same path as me...Thank you from the bottom of my heart, please know that you are so LOVED and appreciated!! I know that some may think that "we" are the "crazy" ones, but the truth is, We" are the furthest from being "crazy"!! When you finally put all pieces of this puzzle together, it is like you have solved the "Mystery of LIFE"! Nothing else makes sense anymore...well that is how my husband and I feel anyway.
To those of you still searching...Know that Michael IS watching and waiting for you to "see the LIGHT". He truly LOVES each and every one of you, as do I...with all of my heart and soul. Please..."Make that Change"...The message is LOVE and this will end/begin, with LOVE!! Mark my words!
@ Michael...Thank you for all of your guidance and Patience...I LOVE YOU..."Heart" to "Heart" and "Mind" to "Mind", always and Forever...I will never let go of your hand!
Post by: Do on November 09, 2011, 03:13:29 PM
Thank you so much for your kind reply! Love reading your posts too, you must know that! I learn so much from you and all of you guys, and I'm so glad to be a part of this adventure! I'll stick around, no doubts about that! bearhug
Post by: applehead250609 on November 09, 2011, 03:14:54 PM
Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting? ;)
No, I've said for a year now I don't believe there is an FBI sting going on... the only set up for a sting I see is a sting against the media, the general public, and MJ's own fans. The Fan sting I started talking about when the Michael album came out with it's "fake" lyrics.
Bec I totally agree with you 8-) ,especially at the STALKERS FANS PART !!!! Please if you have time look here starting 2:47 :lol:!! I can't believe this,the woman is crying like a nuts ,yet she is so HAPPY :? .You really have to see this,OMG :lol: !!! I already saw this 2 women ,and I know it's STAGED,this is STAGED and it has A a PURRPOSE.
Michael Jackson Fans Explain Delight Following Conrad Murray Verdict
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDDPjviIZFc&feature=channel_video_title
[/youtube]
This is not all,outside at Murray trial I saw also a woman who had FAINTED,she was on the GROUND,can you imagine this :? :shock:?????People are in LOVE with all this IDOLS created by HOLLYWOOD,and as I said before, FAME and FORTUNE are just ILLUSIONS!!!AMERICAN DREAM is just AN ILLUSION also!!! This is what Michael is trying to show us.
In THE END TIMES this "THINGS" will have NO VALUE,NADA 8-)!!!!!!!!
Back in 2009 at Memorial it was presented a clip that I thought was very strange and out of NORMAL.I think that some must remember when after Berry Gordy speech there was presented a COLLAGE OF CLIPS with Michael.At one moment Michael said:
Quote
FAIME,FORTUNE,there were just ILLUSIONS
Michael Jackson Memorial Day 7 July 2009 Full part 5/18 [HQ]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIdsj7YQnTw&feature=related[/youtube]
Post by: diggyon on November 09, 2011, 03:17:12 PM
Dear MJ family,
I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!
What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!
I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!
Hey Do!!!
It's great to see you....I had always enjoyed reading your posts. I am glad to know you are still around and reading...lots to read for sure, lol. You are too sweet with your kind words.........what a bleepin' job interview process, lol!!!!!! :lol: But you do make an excellent point....the folks here are amazingly faithful to Michael and I think really do understand him well. Like Michael says....learn from the best ;) Thanks again......and great to see you!
Blessings!
I guess Micheal is having new fans with a different perspective in this forum. I am glad to be a member of this great family. It's an honor for me. Learning from the best isn't something that happens every day. So guys I just wan t to tell you all that I'm happy to be around and to discuss issues with you. I love you all, and Michael God bless you, the whole world will be shocked.....
I am ready for the BAM -PARTY....lol...... I hope we can all meet in one place along with Michael. I guess we will be having a great time.
So guys, don't forget your "Told you so" T-shirts with your usernames on them. We will have fuuuuuuunnnnnnn!!!!!
bearhug bearhug bearhug
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 09, 2011, 03:31:32 PM
The sentencing hasn't even happened yet. I guess Jermaine can see into the future ;)
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on November 09, 2011, 03:38:09 PM
Post by: SimPattyK on November 09, 2011, 03:40:38 PM
http://www.mjjunderground.com/2011/11/09/conrad-murray-tells-his-side-in-documentary-video/
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3793/murray22.jpg)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHfuHCWP08o[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YjRaK7adOsA[/youtube]
Post by: SimPattyK on November 09, 2011, 03:45:34 PM
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!"Thank for this info ^^ @StrangerInCalifornia
It goes hand in hand with the post I had made on the topic "it's only a MOVIE" some week ago.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20662.50
Here's the quote:
MICHAEL ~ leading Actor in DISGUISE
~ Disguise-episode no. 4 ~
MASK: The Vulnerable/Sick/Cripple Celebrity
Game-time: the sharks underestimate the "cripple-freaky/wacko" guy ;)
Scope: surprise/shock-effect & controversy
:lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/2073/mjcrippledisguise.jpg)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/514/mjhoueleg.jpg)
I was inspired by MagicalXcapism's video when I posted this. I always LOVEd this YouTube channel! brilliant, awesome videos!!! I can say the same for MjHoaxEvidence!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QtKiRGDv6w&feature=share[/youtube]
Post by: SimPattyK on November 09, 2011, 03:52:52 PM
Quote from: Applehead
Simpa silly me :oops:,Oh my I just saw I forgoy to put the video,sorry :(!!!! Here it is:This video is special for you,[....]Thank you dear. Great video! Seems as if taken fragment from a movie!
Michael Jackson's arrest 2003
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOudWnu6j0E[/youtube]
I 've always loved LunaJo67's youtube channel!
She has suchgreat videos!! I mean I wonder where she has all those recordings old since the 2005 Trial!!
Wonder if she's part of MJ's team, releasing hoax info on purpose!
LunaJo67 & also MsFairy - same type of archive long videos!! from that trial with news reports from that era and everything!
Post by: Michelle on November 09, 2011, 03:56:27 PM
There must be something wrong with me........I am very calm, even peaceful through this phase. My belief that Michael is alive and well, is just that. For me it's like believing in God.......I just do. There really isn't a thing that could happen in this hoax to shake that....I know I had better be prepared for that to bite me in the booty. Yet, still I am calm. The verdict was just wording surrounded by mystery. Like Poe, like Shakespeare, or Einstein's formulas.......you have to look beyond, have faith, and just know what is said and done, is done for the good. I have no brilliant mind to offer up. I only have a brilliant love and faith to offer up. Faith, Hope, Love...words I live by. I don't stress over June 25th because of those words.....take them to heart and just know.
@Wishingstar I feel so much likewise, pretty strange for me, cause i was super excited about the verdict, but the only thing i felt when i heard the word guilty is calm...... It's actually pretty interesting for me, i couldn't follow the trial live just a few times, but when the verdict was read, by coincidence.............wait, there is not even such thing as coincidence .......so i was here sitting by the computer and watched things happening live. I still can hardly understand how on earth was Murray able to sit and listen to his verdict with such negligence, like he couldn't care less what will happen to him. Like he exactly knew it.......it's not normal, you can look back to these years, and the trial and nothing on Earth seems like a normal thing!!!
First i thought if Murray will be convicted, than that's it, i'll probably give up, cause i think Michael wouldn't send an innocent man to prison. I was so nervously excited in the last days before the verdict, and i couldn't understand my gut feelings either when i heard Murray is guilty, i felt completely calm and somehow peaceful.
I realize with this verdict we will loose more believers, but i guess there is a tough core here who's belief can't be changed with such little thing as Murray's conviction.......LOL
And i'm proud to be one of you guys, though i'm also not in the ones who posts a lot, but i'm here everyday, reading as much as i can (it's not very easy, time is not my friend.......), and i'm incredibly thankful for you who are contributing to unfold the hoax and helping people like me to understand the whys much better!!!!
I can't say it any other way, but i am proud to be a believer and so much thankful to be here with you guys!!!
bearhug
and an extra for somebody..... ;) penguin/
Post by: applehead250609 on November 09, 2011, 06:13:10 PM
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
You got that right Curls, and he is saying "Follow the path of L.O.V.E now" Not follow the "Hoax" path.
My beautiful family, I LOVE you all so very much, and it just breaks my heart that so many of you are still "desperately" entangled in Michael and God's "spider web". (hoax) Until you start "thinking outside the box" you will never understand, that the whole Hoax part of this adventure is irrelevant in the Big picture.
The ultimate goal for Michael doing all of this, is to get us to re-evaluate our "lives" and to find that lost "LOVE" that is inside each and everyone of us! The longer people continue on the "Hoax" part of this journey, the longer they are putting off finding out the "Truth", of why Michael had to do what he had to do in order to get the world to "wake up" and see what their lives have become! The world will have no choice, BUT to look at everything they thought was a "reality" and realize that everything was really just an "Illusion". When Michael sang "we are here to change the world", he meant it!!! When Michael said that this is "all for LOVE", he meant it!!!! When he said "I'm going to show them "Talent", like they've never seen before", he meant that also!!!! The world isn't going to know what hit them!
If you are reading this, and you are still searching for answers, I am pleading with you to take a leap of Faith! If your current path isn't giving you the answers you've been searching for, why not "make a Change" and try another path??
A good investigator, looks at EVERY possibility...including the possibility, that Michael was sent to us by God, to help us transition into the next "age"...the "Golden age".
Is it just a "coincidence" that there are many of us here on this forum, who are sitting back, waiting and watching this all unfold, with no FEAR, and no worries, about what the outcome will be, because we just "KNOW"? There may be only a few of us here on this forum that have been "awakened", but you might be surprised at just how many of us there are all around the world, that are feeling this "shift" in our consciousness!! As far fetched as this may seem to you, It is really happening my dear family! If you truly BELIEVE that Michael has faked his "death", and pulled the wool over the eyes of the world, how is it that he was able to pull off something of this magnitude, without TPTB stopping him??
Michael IS invincible, because he is LOVE and he is LIGHT first and foremost. Michael knows the secrets of the universe, and my husband and I truly understand his "Divinity" and I was brought here to this forum strictly because of my strong Belief in LOVE, not because I was a Michael Jackson "Fan", because I was never a "Fan". That in and of itself, only solidifies, that I am connected to Michael because of LOVE...It is our "Common Bond" and he knew that! I came to this forum because of LOVE and I have been posting about LOVE since the beginning ...My Faith and Belief in Michael and LOVE has never wavered, and will never waver!
I have never strayed from the path of Love my whole life. LOVE and GOD, (not religion) are the only things I have ever truly believed in, and despite all of the abuse, and suffering in my life, I never gave up hope that someday I would understand what my purpose here on Earth was and I have always known that LOVE was all that really mattered in this "Material" world, but I never really understood what that meant. Today, I have all of the answers I have been looking for, and I am at "Peace", knowing that my Belief in LOVE and GOD, was not in vain.
Michael is "synonymous" with LOVE. Can you name one other person on this planet that has the ability to make everyone he comes in contact with, feel truly LOVED, like you have a personal relationship with him? This should tell you just how "special" Michael is, and maybe you owe it to yourself, to step out of the "hoax" part of this "adventure, and just research the possibility that Michael really is an "Ascended Master" who was sent from God our creator, to "awaken" the world to the Truth of who we really are, and to help us to transition into the "New Age".
I KNOW that Michael sees and hears everything. I have Never "Physically" met Michael, but I "Feel" him with me at all times, he is truly just another part of me..Michael IS LOVE...I am LOVE..."WE", are LIGHT and LOVE..."WE" are ONE!
If you want answers, you must look at "ALL"possibilities. You need to do some soul searching and re-awaken the LOVE that is buried inside you. Until you take the path "less" traveled, you will stay stuck in this "vortex" we call "REALITY". Michael is counting on his "Army of LOVE" not his "Hoax Army", LOVE is the answer to what you are all searching for!
To all of you who are on the same path as me...Thank you from the bottom of my heart, please know that you are so LOVED and appreciated!! I know that some may think that "we" are the "crazy" ones, but the truth is, We" are the furthest from being "crazy"!! When you finally put all pieces of this puzzle together, it is like you have solved the "Mystery of LIFE"! Nothing else makes sense anymore...well that is how my husband and I feel anyway.
To those of you still searching...Know that Michael IS watching and waiting for you to "see the LIGHT". He truly LOVES each and every one of you, as do I...with all of my heart and soul. Please..."Make that Change"...The message is LOVE and this will end/begin, with LOVE!! Mark my words!
@ Michael...Thank you for all of your guidance and Patience...I LOVE YOU..."Heart" to "Heart" and "Mind" to "Mind", always and Forever...I will never let go of your hand!
Mjj4ever777 thank you very much for your :) post!!!!
Once Robert Frost said:
Quote
" Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. "
Today I finally decided that I will not research anything anymore,regarding hoax-clues,because I found what I was looking for.Today I decided to CHOOSE THE LESS TRAVELED PATH. The research of clues is over for me,and now I have something more IMPORTANT TO DO.To find out more about THE TRUTH,LOVE and SECRETS OF UNIVERS.The only way to do it is not to say it,WE MUST LIVE IT!!!!!
There are 12 Spiritual PRINCIPLES and Laws for the Liberation of Planet Earth.If someone here wants to know more about them and more about hidden TRUTHS in THIS IS IT movie can watch this video of jackieblue64 video:
Hidden Truths of Michael Jacksons This Is It (PART 4)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xsb36fvQeM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
There is one Principle that I want to disscuss here and that one is THE PRINCIPLE of CAUSE and EFFECT.Michael told us many times about this,during this ADVENTURE and noticed in 2 occasions.In a letter to a staff member of his,when he was in Japan 1987 and when he was in Japan 2006.Here are:
FIRST:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmwCa_ZI/AAAAAAAADIw/ejNxtx1jFvg/s400/scrisoare+1+..JPG)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmTp_cZI/AAAAAAAADIo/PjRwvBK3ltE/s400/scrisoare++2+..JPG)(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmETz-xI/AAAAAAAADIg/0q81f9ZYJ-E/s400/scrisoare++3.JPG)
Pecky,
I very very seldom write letters. But in this moving occasion I couldn’t help myself.
I want to thank you for putting the effort forward to capture the magic and excitement of the people of the world. What you do is a very personal and powerful medium to me. It is the art of stopping time, to preserve a moment that the naked eye cannot hold, to capture truth, spontaneous truth, the depths of excitement in human spirit. All else will be forgotten but not the films.
Generations from now will experience the excitement you’ve captured. It truly is a time capsule. I will not be totally satisfied until I know you’re at the right angle at the right time, to capture a crescendo of emotion that happens so quickly, so spontaneously.
What you have done was good, but I want the best, the whole picture, cause and effect 8-). I want crowd reaction, wide lens shots, depths of emotion, timing. I know we can do it................................
http://grigutza-pravalia.blogspot.com/2010/05/scrisoare-catre-pecky.html (http://grigutza-pravalia.blogspot.com/2010/05/scrisoare-catre-pecky.html)
SECOND:
Michael Jackson 2006 Japan Backstage
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOeMrCxWZ0[/youtube]
Here Michael is in Japan ,backstage in 2006,where he meet singer Rihanna.At one point (4:03) you can seee and hear him,DIRECTING to the cameraman to DOCUMENT everything,ACTION AND REACTION ,and CAUSE AND THE EFFECT,from them(fans) to him,and from him to them (fans) 8-) .If this is not GENIUS then I don't know what genius is ;) .
One more thing before I go,this next video is a GIFT for all of you.I really hope that by watching "THIS",you will become FREE,in order DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
I hope the 911 call will ring for you all,and realize that 21.12.2012 11:11 is COMING :!:.TS said in many occasions that THE END times are coming so I wish you all alot of force for yourself and your family!!!
I LOVE you all and no matter what YOU ARE my second FAMILY :)!!!!
The Freedom Movie 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIf0XcVzWlI&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 09, 2011, 06:23:01 PM
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time." :shock:
YESSS. I was dancing after he said that. You gotta love Jermaine !
Post by: wishingstar on November 09, 2011, 06:56:11 PM
@Diggyon....."Fans with a different perspective", great way of thinking about this group...and yes, BAM shirts for sure : )
@Michelle.......I am SO glad and quite relieved, I am not the only one that was calm from the verdict, lol. Really felt something was off with me. I just sort of feel like coasting right now. I feel like I have peddled up hill for so long, and thought the verdict was just going to prolong that hill. But, it was opposite....I feel a slight (I stress slight) down hill coast for a bit........I suppose that's the faith kicking in for me. The onslaught of media attention just helped as well. It just makes it all the more calming....like this joke of a story with the death bed being sold. I equate that to the Casket Guy video......as in, "OMGosh.....really? What next???" I have to go post over at that thread, lol.....I have a million thoughts floating around, lol. Anyways, thanks for making me not feel so alone with my craziness : )
You guys are all awesome I love you all and appreciate you so much!!!!!
Have a beautiful evening!!!
bearhug
Post by: beLIEving101 on November 09, 2011, 07:00:20 PM
I do believe the big picture is about love, and that We are One. The material things around us are essentially an illusion.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 09, 2011, 07:01:24 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh7WxiUqIUc&list=PL6C29010601545F98&index=59&feature=plpp_video[/youtube]
@Applehead...God Bless you for all of your posts, they are all truly "enlightening"! You know I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think Different and BE LOVE!!!!!!
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 09, 2011, 07:08:41 PM
@mjj4ever777 .....Great Post, well well said. Love your mindset and your message. :)
I do believe the big picture is about love, and that We are One. The material things around us are essentially an illusion.
@ Believing 101 God Bless You! "Feed the LOVE, and watch it GROW"! I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!
bearhug
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 09, 2011, 07:22:04 PM
But if there is a possible sting I say it's on Cooley...but I'm going to go with the fact I don't think there is, I think this trial is just to fill in the gaps or apart of the normal process of when events like these happen.
Post by: PureLove on November 09, 2011, 08:00:33 PM
Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.
So you say, Michael was really a drug addict. Murray is with the evil side who had been trying to kill Michael and he was trying to kill Michael for real fueling him with drugs but Michael found out about the plan and made him fall into his own trap and therefore Murray is in jail now. And also you say that, Murray's speech on youtube which is exactly like Michael's is just a coincidence. Sorry Scorpion but this means that you missed what a LONG TERM, perfect plan this is! Michael started to give out clues about this hoax at least 20 years ago. It looks like you didn't get any of them and therefore you think Murray is a real killer and Michael arranged a plan in a hurry to get him. You need to start thinking BIGGER and stop thinking Michael is a fragile drug addict. There is so much more than you can imagine. And this is NOT such a simple plan which was decided in a short term. You're missing the important points of the hoax.
Hon, I did not miss anything, I am too realistic and love rationale. Michael is NOT drug addict, what was those bottles about, still not clear since I do not wish to IMAGINE anything. Nobody knows everything for sure but Michael and those who assisted him, I'll wait for the time.
Also we should consider that Murray didn't even go to the stand to defend himself and his lawyers did their best to lose the trial. In the middle of the trial they changed their minds and they didn't say that Michael drank propofol but they said he injected it to himself. This was a disadvantage for the defense and they knew it but still they went with the plan. I do not know how you see all these things but I personally can say that I can read the script like an open book. It is so obvious to me. But it is just me of course and no one needs to get it the way I do. I am also a realistic but also a dreamer, I just keep the two in balance. When I examine Michael's life, it is so easy for me to understand what a long time plan this is. I think it depends on how you interpret things. But IMO we have enough clues, actually facts to believe that this is a long term plan of Michael and Murray is just a part of the plan knowing all about the plan. With all due respect, I get your point and respect it but imo you're still missing things. Time will tell everything to all of us for sure as long as we keep our patience and love. Blessings to you hon. ;)
Post by: PureLove on November 09, 2011, 08:10:30 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
Post by: PureLove on November 09, 2011, 08:32:56 PM
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time." :shock:
YESSS. I was dancing after he said that. You gotta love Jermaine !
:lol:
Amazing clues by Jermaine again. GO JERMAINE! Love You. /bravo/
Post by: scorpionchik on November 09, 2011, 08:41:40 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.
Post by: Dontwalkaway on November 09, 2011, 09:24:28 PM
Take the next step past just thinking about the death hoax. We know it's a fake death, fake trial etc. Think about "Why" this is all happening. It's to wake the masses up so we can have a spiritual revolution, a revolution in the area of knowledge and concsiousness. That is the only way to heal the world so humanity can evolve.
Trust me. I was stuck in the rut of worrying and stressing all the time. Worrying about paying bills, buying food,clothes, cars breaking down, stress at work, taking care of kids etc. and struggling to get through the day. I was getting depressed until last year or so when I found about the death hoax and the reasons why. It gave me so much hope. The world can come together in peace and love if we put our minds to it. Stresses that I used to have are slowly going away and so are a lot of aches and pains. I was going to the chiropractor for muscle and back pain every 2 or 3 weeks but I haven't had to go for the last 6 or 7 months. It's amazing. "I've stopped existing and started living" All the little things don't worry me so much.
Take the next step past thinking just about the trial. Think about the whole world, even the whole universe. penguin/
Love to you all
Post by: PureLove on November 09, 2011, 09:34:32 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.
I wish you shared the inconsistencies you found in TS' posts and again I wish you kept on reading his updates. You would be understanding that it is not crap but truth only proven with facts!
It's also interesting you to say that you do not believe TS/Front is guiding us, yet you still read and make posts on TS/Front's threads. Why need to waste your time if you think that these threads are crap and no guidance at all?
Anyways, this is not a "TS is fake or TS is real" discussion thread, so we should agree to disagree and move on.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 10, 2011, 03:16:30 AM
@Gina...this was not a murder trial, therefore, under the law/definition of involuntary manslaughter, the 'fatal dose' and who administered it is irrelevant when ALL of Murray's other actions and/or failures are taken into consideration.
Here is the relevant part in the instructions referencing this...and prior to this part in the instructions, the judge instructed the jury that THE LAW states that Murray, as MJ's doctor, had a legal duty to his patient (this is a recognized and undisputable 'fact' under the law).QuoteThere may be more than one cause of death. An act or a failure to perform a legal duty causes the death only if it is a substantial factor in causing the death. A substantial factor is more than a trivial or remote factor. However, it does not have to be the only factor that causes the death.
To relieve a defendant of criminal liability, an intervening cause must be an unforeseeable and extraordinary occurence. A defendant remains criminally liable for the death if either the possible consequence might reasonably have been contemplated or the defendant should have foreseen the possibility of harm of the kind that could result from his or her act.
The failure of the alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson or another person to use reasonable care may have contributed to the death. However, if the defendant's act or the defendant's failure to perform a legal duty was a substantial factor causing the death, then the defendant is legally responsible for the death even though Michael Joseph Jackson or another person may have failed to use reasonable care.
If you have a reasonable doubt whether the defendant's act or failure to perform a legal duty caused the death, you must find him not guilty.
Here's the link to the jury instructions for anyone interested:
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf (http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jury-instructions.pdf)
I don't want to insist on this and I won't anymore.
Involuntary manslaughter means he didn't kill MJ intentionally but accidentally. But still he killed him, but not with intention.
In Murray's case they couldn't prove he killed him. They prove negligence, they prove he didn't call 911 and so many other circumstantial facts BUT they don't prove he actually killed him by a DIRECT action to his body.
If this means Murray is guilty, so be it, but to me it doesn't make sense.
Because in this case 50% of the doctors in the world who lost a patient should be brought before a jury and found guilty.
Post by: MJonmind on November 10, 2011, 04:14:13 AM
And if TS = Front = Back = Michael, maybe we could add one more.
It's a distinct advantage to have a smaller nose, it can be built to any shape or size. (MJ's favorite character is Morph.)
The major hurdle for believing DD to be MJ is the deformed hands, and with Murray it's the height. I believe this was done deliberately by MJ. Again illusion--magician's tricks. Is Murray sitting in this room or does it have a very high ceiling? Certainly the person taking the pic is also 6'5" and at the same eye level. Without putting tons of Murray pictures here, has anyone else noticed how Murray seems to have so many different appearances--skin color, nose shapes, etc.?
It would be the most delicious irony how Michael killed himself. errrr :D
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/murray22.jpg)(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20face%20only/mjhan.jpg)
Post by: titania on November 10, 2011, 04:33:16 AM
Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time." :shock:
Is that what he said?Hahaha! good old Jermaine. He also used that wheelchair photo in the book You Are Not Alone. I think that there was a photo of MJ's casket on wheels on the same page....
I haven't seen the interview on Ellen since I live in Europe and it aint been broadcast here yet. So thanks for sharing.
Titania
Post by: Suzy7 on November 10, 2011, 06:05:42 AM
'Reasonable doubt' applies to involuntary manslaughter cases too, so according to those instructions, ofcourse he COULD be found guilty; but that doesn't mean he had to have been. Many error's were made in the investigation process, and handling of evidence, missing evidence etc., that can cause reasonable doubt.
As for the hoax it was a completely different story; if this is a 'Kangaroo Court', then the verdict was predetermined for hoax purposes.
@Bec I recall you not actually calling any part of the hoax a 'sting' on the fans, media etc., specifically, which is what I was referring to.
StrangerInCalifornia, I saw the Jermaine interview on Ellen and it was definitely 'interesting' in the words of Ellen. Can it be more obvious? Lol
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 10, 2011, 06:21:12 AM
i dont think cm is TS. i have a different opinion on that. but just thought the "The Source" reference was interesting as TS has referenced to himself as The Source previously.
L.O.V.E to all.
Post by: BeTheChange on November 10, 2011, 08:16:53 AM
@BeTheChange You did in fact, post a part of the jury instruction's that read along the lines of, "if you have reasonable doubt whether the defendant's action or failure to provide legal duty resulting in death, you MUST find him not guilty".
'Reasonable doubt' applies to involuntary manslaughter cases too, so according to those instructions, ofcourse he COULD be found guilty; but that doesn't mean he had to have been. Many error's were made in the investigation process, and handling of evidence, missing evidence etc., that can cause reasonable doubt.
As for the hoax it was a completely different story; if this is a 'Kangaroo Court', then the verdict was predetermined for hoax purposes.
@Bec I recall you not actually calling any part of the hoax a 'sting' on the fans, media etc., specifically, which is what I was referring to.
StrangerInCalifornia, I saw the Jermaine interview on Ellen and it was definitely 'interesting' in the words of Ellen. Can it be more obvious? Lol
Hi Suzy...thanks for your comments ::P
I intentionally included that part of the jury instructions because there was some discussion about 'reasonable doubt' as to whether or not Murray actually administered the 'fatal dose'. As per the not finding him guilty part that I included...the 'reasonable doubt' directly speaks to whether or not Murray fulfilled his legal duty to his patient and whether or not his failure (if any) resulted in death.
All laws can be interpretive and this one is no exception of course. And while there were some errors in the investigation, handling and missing evidence...which happens to some degree in every case, no investigation is ever perfect...a jury needs to weigh those errors against the evidence that is available.
We know it's a hoax and it's obvious that the 'script' called for the deck to be stacked against Murray, for whatever reason. But from the jury's perspective (IF they were real)...the evidence showing Murray's failure to perform his legal duty to his patient greatly overshadowed the errors made by investigators....absolutely no 'reasonable doubt' there.
On another note...knowing that Murray was intentionally made to look so guilty, and the fact that the jury was NOT sequestered, I wonder if Mike had hoped that they would notice the discrepancies and actually take it upon themselves to research everything on their own. Maybe he had hoped that (and was testing) the jury to see if their search for 'truth' would be strong enough or important enough to them that they would go as far as breaking the law to find it (i.e. go against the judge's instructions). I know that if I was on that jury, the judge's daily admonitions would go in one ear and out the other :lol:...because I wouldn't trust anything said or done in a court of law.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: paula-c on November 10, 2011, 09:45:15 AM
During the research process, the handling of evidence have errors, lack of evidence, contradictions. All over the world saw the court decorda with animals of toy, stuffed animals, a court where no one has sworn to the bible ( correct me if i am wrong or if this does not mean nothing ).
As TMZ, " members of the jury told that the decision to find a Murray guilty was not "difficult" , ..they had the verdict the Friday but this was read on the Monday 7/11 to the 1:17 pm ( date and appropriate time )
And the verdict was read out in these terms; "alleged victim", alleged date ", if all this is based on " alleged " we would be talking about a " alleged homicide "
Has reason Im_convinced when said that any person with two fingers in front all this should draw your attention.
I did not know the term 'court kangaroo ", the term used for a farce legal or judicial proceedings where the result of a judgment is determined in advance,.. generally with the purpose of ! Ensure the guilt !
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 10, 2011, 02:00:49 PM
I am with you MJJ4ever777. I have a lot of the same thoughts but you are a great writer. Thank you so much for what you have written. There is a spiritual revolution or a revolution in the area of consciousness. Watch the Freedom Movie. All of humanity can be free. It's very simple. Don't let anyone make you live a life of fear and spread love. That's all. There's propoganda, false media, false terror, bad food,economic problems,disasters, diseases etc. keeping people apart, keeping people in fear, and separating us. We have to stop all this. It's just your mind preventing you. Your mind is like your prison.
Take the next step past just thinking about the death hoax. We know it's a fake death, fake trial etc. Think about "Why" this is all happening. It's to wake the masses up so we can have a spiritual revolution, a revolution in the area of knowledge and concsiousness. That is the only way to heal the world so humanity can evolve.
Trust me. I was stuck in the rut of worrying and stressing all the time. Worrying about paying bills, buying food,clothes, cars breaking down, stress at work, taking care of kids etc. and struggling to get through the day. I was getting depressed until last year or so when I found about the death hoax and the reasons why. It gave me so much hope. The world can come together in peace and love if we put our minds to it. Stresses that I used to have are slowly going away and so are a lot of aches and pains. I was going to the chiropractor for muscle and back pain every 2 or 3 weeks but I haven't had to go for the last 6 or 7 months. It's amazing. "I've stopped existing and started living" All the little things don't worry me so much.
Take the next step past thinking just about the trial. Think about the whole world, even the whole universe. penguin/
Love to you all
God Bless you Don'twalkaway!!!! It is nice to know I am not alone on this. Once you see the "truth", there is no stopping us!!! LOVE WILL "change the world"! Keep posting! I LOVE YOU!!!
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 10, 2011, 05:14:19 PM
Murray was negligent, irresponsible, ignorant ( not knowing how to make a resuscitation ). The scene was planned for a conviction, looking at all, it seems that if Murray to do the opposite to what should have been done.
During the research process, the handling of evidence have errors, lack of evidence, contradictions. All over the world saw the court decorda with animals of toy, stuffed animals, a court where no one has sworn to the bible ( correct me if i am wrong or if this does not mean nothing ).
@Paula. Agree with you 100000%
- deliberately made to look as incompetant as possible
- evidence with errors, on muliple occasions. very unprofessional, screams fake.
- toys, ties, pictures, etc... gags? clues? etheir way. wouldnt finf them in a real court
- swearing in bible. it wouldnt be unusual for someone to decline to swear on bible. (btw, JW's prefer not to swear on bible in court) my objective word here is someONE. the fact that no one swore on the bible was strange. you would expect maybe one or two to object. but for no one to swear, demonstrates fake court.
another point, it that if you think about it, we would all agree the court we saw was the most unprofessional we had ever seen. jacko lanterns, orange ties, clowns, elephants, beavers, jokes, errors, spelling mistakes, wrong dates, word alleged.... i bet none of us have ever seen this kind of unprofessionalism previously in other courtcases, etc. you would think that if this was real, and the court knew it was going to be filmed and broadcast for millions of people to watch across the world, they would make sure spelling was correct, no errors, no jokes by judge, no orange ties, props, etc. if this was real, everyon would be uptight, on their best behaviour trying to be as professional as possible. the fact that it was everything but that demonstrates how fake this court was. it was deliberately unprofessional to show us it was hoax. but the media and hardcore (anti conrad) MJ fans still run away with what they think is truth without looking and listening to clues and facts.
verdict has not shaken my faith one bit. in fact my faith is stronger post verdict then ever before.
Post by: mjj4ever777 on November 10, 2011, 05:57:24 PM
Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated. We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court. It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know? We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice? Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive. We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer. If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH. We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now. LOVE to all of you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKrXFcVyXE&feature=share /bravo/
That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?
I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
You got that right Curls, and he is saying "Follow the path of L.O.V.E now" Not follow the "Hoax" path.
My beautiful family, I LOVE you all so very much, and it just breaks my heart that so many of you are still "desperately" entangled in Michael and God's "spider web". (hoax) Until you start "thinking outside the box" you will never understand, that the whole Hoax part of this adventure is irrelevant in the Big picture.
The ultimate goal for Michael doing all of this, is to get us to re-evaluate our "lives" and to find that lost "LOVE" that is inside each and everyone of us! The longer people continue on the "Hoax" part of this journey, the longer they are putting off finding out the "Truth", of why Michael had to do what he had to do in order to get the world to "wake up" and see what their lives have become! The world will have no choice, BUT to look at everything they thought was a "reality" and realize that everything was really just an "Illusion". When Michael sang "we are here to change the world", he meant it!!! When Michael said that this is "all for LOVE", he meant it!!!! When he said "I'm going to show them "Talent", like they've never seen before", he meant that also!!!! The world isn't going to know what hit them!
If you are reading this, and you are still searching for answers, I am pleading with you to take a leap of Faith! If your current path isn't giving you the answers you've been searching for, why not "make a Change" and try another path??
A good investigator, looks at EVERY possibility...including the possibility, that Michael was sent to us by God, to help us transition into the next "age"...the "Golden age".
Is it just a "coincidence" that there are many of us here on this forum, who are sitting back, waiting and watching this all unfold, with no FEAR, and no worries, about what the outcome will be, because we just "KNOW"? There may be only a few of us here on this forum that have been "awakened", but you might be surprised at just how many of us there are all around the world, that are feeling this "shift" in our consciousness!! As far fetched as this may seem to you, It is really happening my dear family! If you truly BELIEVE that Michael has faked his "death", and pulled the wool over the eyes of the world, how is it that he was able to pull off something of this magnitude, without TPTB stopping him??
Michael IS invincible, because he is LOVE and he is LIGHT first and foremost. Michael knows the secrets of the universe, and my husband and I truly understand his "Divinity" and I was brought here to this forum strictly because of my strong Belief in LOVE, not because I was a Michael Jackson "Fan", because I was never a "Fan". That in and of itself, only solidifies, that I am connected to Michael because of LOVE...It is our "Common Bond" and he knew that! I came to this forum because of LOVE and I have been posting about LOVE since the beginning ...My Faith and Belief in Michael and LOVE has never wavered, and will never waver!
I have never strayed from the path of Love my whole life. LOVE and GOD, (not religion) are the only things I have ever truly believed in, and despite all of the abuse, and suffering in my life, I never gave up hope that someday I would understand what my purpose here on Earth was and I have always known that LOVE was all that really mattered in this "Material" world, but I never really understood what that meant. Today, I have all of the answers I have been looking for, and I am at "Peace", knowing that my Belief in LOVE and GOD, was not in vain.
Michael is "synonymous" with LOVE. Can you name one other person on this planet that has the ability to make everyone he comes in contact with, feel truly LOVED, like you have a personal relationship with him? This should tell you just how "special" Michael is, and maybe you owe it to yourself, to step out of the "hoax" part of this "adventure, and just research the possibility that Michael really is an "Ascended Master" who was sent from God our creator, to "awaken" the world to the Truth of who we really are, and to help us to transition into the "New Age".
I KNOW that Michael sees and hears everything. I have Never "Physically" met Michael, but I "Feel" him with me at all times, he is truly just another part of me..Michael IS LOVE...I am LOVE..."WE", are LIGHT and LOVE..."WE" are ONE!
If you want answers, you must look at "ALL"possibilities. You need to do some soul searching and re-awaken the LOVE that is buried inside you. Until you take the path "less" traveled, you will stay stuck in this "vortex" we call "REALITY". Michael is counting on his "Army of LOVE" not his "Hoax Army", LOVE is the answer to what you are all searching for!
To all of you who are on the same path as me...Thank you from the bottom of my heart, please know that you are so LOVED and appreciated!! I know that some may think that "we" are the "crazy" ones, but the truth is, We" are the furthest from being "crazy"!! When you finally put all pieces of this puzzle together, it is like you have solved the "Mystery of LIFE"! Nothing else makes sense anymore...well that is how my husband and I feel anyway.
To those of you still searching...Know that Michael IS watching and waiting for you to "see the LIGHT". He truly LOVES each and every one of you, as do I...with all of my heart and soul. Please..."Make that Change"...The message is LOVE and this will end/begin, with LOVE!! Mark my words!
@ Michael...Thank you for all of your guidance and Patience...I LOVE YOU..."Heart" to "Heart" and "Mind" to "Mind", always and Forever...I will never let go of your hand!
Mjj4ever777 thank you very much for your :) post!!!!
Once Robert Frost said:
Quote" Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. "
Today I finally decided that I will not research anything anymore,regarding hoax-clues,because I found what I was looking for.Today I decided to CHOOSE THE LESS TRAVELED PATH. The research of clues is over for me,and now I have something more IMPORTANT TO DO.To find out more about THE TRUTH,LOVE and SECRETS OF UNIVERS.The only way to do it is not to say it,WE MUST LIVE IT!!!!!
There are 12 Spiritual PRINCIPLES and Laws for the Liberation of Planet Earth.If someone here wants to know more about them and more about hidden TRUTHS in THIS IS IT movie can watch this video of jackieblue64 video:
Hidden Truths of Michael Jacksons This Is It (PART 4)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xsb36fvQeM&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
There is one Principle that I want to disscuss here and that one is THE PRINCIPLE of CAUSE and EFFECT.Michael told us many times about this,during this ADVENTURE and noticed in 2 occasions.In a letter to a staff member of his,when he was in Japan 1987 and when he was in Japan 2006.Here are:
FIRST:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmwCa_ZI/AAAAAAAADIw/ejNxtx1jFvg/s400/scrisoare+1+..JPG)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmTp_cZI/AAAAAAAADIo/PjRwvBK3ltE/s400/scrisoare++2+..JPG)(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nFbamyx_QJY/S_5JmETz-xI/AAAAAAAADIg/0q81f9ZYJ-E/s400/scrisoare++3.JPG)
Pecky,
I very very seldom write letters. But in this moving occasion I couldn’t help myself.
I want to thank you for putting the effort forward to capture the magic and excitement of the people of the world. What you do is a very personal and powerful medium to me. It is the art of stopping time, to preserve a moment that the naked eye cannot hold, to capture truth, spontaneous truth, the depths of excitement in human spirit. All else will be forgotten but not the films.
Generations from now will experience the excitement you’ve captured. It truly is a time capsule. I will not be totally satisfied until I know you’re at the right angle at the right time, to capture a crescendo of emotion that happens so quickly, so spontaneously.
What you have done was good, but I want the best, the whole picture, cause and effect 8-). I want crowd reaction, wide lens shots, depths of emotion, timing. I know we can do it................................
http://grigutza-pravalia.blogspot.com/2010/05/scrisoare-catre-pecky.html (http://grigutza-pravalia.blogspot.com/2010/05/scrisoare-catre-pecky.html)
SECOND:
Michael Jackson 2006 Japan Backstage
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOeMrCxWZ0[/youtube]
Here Michael is in Japan ,backstage in 2006,where he meet singer Rihanna.At one point (4:03) you can seee and hear him,DIRECTING to the cameraman to DOCUMENT everything,ACTION AND REACTION ,and CAUSE AND THE EFFECT,from them(fans) to him,and from him to them (fans) 8-) .If this is not GENIUS then I don't know what genius is ;) .
One more thing before I go,this next video is a GIFT for all of you.I really hope that by watching "THIS",you will become FREE,in order DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
I hope the 911 call will ring for you all,and realize that 21.12.2012 11:11 is COMING :!:.TS said in many occasions that THE END times are coming so I wish you all alot of force for yourself and your family!!!
I LOVE you all and no matter what YOU ARE my second FAMILY :)!!!!
The Freedom Movie 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIf0XcVzWlI&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Great Post Applehead!!! I can see that you are well on your way. The movie Freedom was awesome! For those of you still searching trying to understand what this is all about, I highly recommend that you watch this movie!!!
Applehead..if I happen to miss replying to one of your posts, please know that I do read all of them and that all of your dedication and Love is not in vain!! Keep posting and keep Living LOVE!! I LOVE YOU so very much...you are such a beautiful soul!!
Post by: PureLove on November 10, 2011, 06:12:46 PM
And if TS = Front = Back = Michael, maybe we could add one more.
It's a distinct advantage to have a smaller nose, it can be built to any shape or size. (MJ's favorite character is Morph.)
The major hurdle for believing DD to be MJ is the deformed hands, and with Murray it's the height. I believe this was done deliberately by MJ. Again illusion--magician's tricks. Is Murray sitting in this room or does it have a very high ceiling? Certainly the person taking the pic is also 6'5" and at the same eye level. Without putting tons of Murray pictures here, has anyone else noticed how Murray seems to have so many different appearances--skin color, nose shapes, etc.?
It would be the most delicious irony how Michael killed himself. errrr :D
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/murray22.jpg)(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20face%20only/mjhan.jpg)
Murray stood up in the courtroom when they cuffed him. Did you see him there and how tall he is? IF that was Michael, he needed to use extra fake legs and arms but we saw Murray's naked legs and arms and they were real and he is a huge guy. I think we should leave Murray alone and let him be. He is not Michael in disguise.
Murray looks the same to me always. Just depends on the lighting and the make up, there can be some skin tone differences which is so normal. You are looking too much where there is nothing there and that is the reason why you see things different in the way he looks.
Post by: PureLove on November 10, 2011, 06:49:37 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiELXiMuY1M[/youtube]
They're talking about the tape and Jermaine says what Michael says in that recording is important. :mrgreen: And Jermaine also says 2 years in jail is not enough. So he already knows what the sentence is going to be. ;) The entire speech is based on to show the world the real Michael who cares and loves the children, humanity and the planet. Very nice job Jermaine. /bravo/
Post by: PureLove on November 10, 2011, 06:53:38 PM
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 10, 2011, 07:05:55 PM
And if TS = Front = Back = Michael, maybe we could add one more.
It's a distinct advantage to have a smaller nose, it can be built to any shape or size. (MJ's favorite character is Morph.)
The major hurdle for believing DD to be MJ is the deformed hands, and with Murray it's the height. I believe this was done deliberately by MJ. Again illusion--magician's tricks. Is Murray sitting in this room or does it have a very high ceiling? Certainly the person taking the pic is also 6'5" and at the same eye level. Without putting tons of Murray pictures here, has anyone else noticed how Murray seems to have so many different appearances--skin color, nose shapes, etc.?
It would be the most delicious irony how Michael killed himself. errrr :D
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/murray22.jpg)(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20face%20only/mjhan.jpg)
Murray stood up in the courtroom when they cuffed him. Did you see him there and how tall he is? IF that was Michael, he needed to use extra fake legs and arms but we saw Murray's naked legs and arms and they were real and he is a huge guy. I think we should leave Murray alone and let him be. He is not Michael in disguise.
Murray looks the same to me always. Just depends on the lighting and the make up, there can be some skin tone differences which is so normal. You are looking too much where there is nothing there and that is the reason why you see things different in the way he looks.
Not again with Murray being Michael in disguise. It is impossible, Purelove is right, he is too tall to be Michael.. Unless Michael is wearing stiletto heals.. Which I doubt very much. we should debunk it. please.
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on November 10, 2011, 07:14:55 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN6HzQIu4gg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
Wow! they even beeped him, he must of swore. lol Connie Connie, you are making money, thanks to Michael and his movie.. I am sure this is Michael's documentary he is the director of this documentary.. Bravo Michael, I applaud you... love and blessings.
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 10, 2011, 07:31:48 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN6HzQIu4gg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
Wow! they even beeped him, he must of swore. lol Connie Connie, you are making money, thanks to Michael and his movie.. I am sure this is Michael's documentary he is the director of this documentary.. Bravo Michael, I applaud you... love and blessings.
Omg his voice sounds like Michael 0______o
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 10, 2011, 09:08:27 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN6HzQIu4gg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
WOW!!! I loved the trailer of the Murray documentary. What an amazing little movie within the big movie! Kudos Michael! /bravo/
I know I loved it too, imagine the trailer for the real movie...AM-AZ-ING.
@allforlove, yep Murray swore a lot...and I found it hilarious when Flanny swore at Chernoff, Chernoff just walked off, he didn't know what to say...ahaha
@MJFAN7 that's what my family said to me, they said 'he sounds exactly like MJ'...I guess Murray has been practicing...lol
Post by: Heartsong on November 10, 2011, 10:05:52 PM
Murray was negligent, irresponsible, ignorant ( not knowing how to make a resuscitation ). The scene was planned for a conviction, looking at all, it seems that if Murray to do the opposite to what should have been done.
During the research process, the handling of evidence have errors, lack of evidence, contradictions. All over the world saw the court decorda with animals of toy, stuffed animals, a court where no one has sworn to the bible ( correct me if i am wrong or if this does not mean nothing ).
@Paula. Agree with you 100000%
- deliberately made to look as incompetant as possible
- evidence with errors, on muliple occasions. very unprofessional, screams fake.
- toys, ties, pictures, etc... gags? clues? etheir way. wouldnt finf them in a real court
- swearing in bible. it wouldnt be unusual for someone to decline to swear on bible. (btw, JW's prefer not to swear on bible in court) my objective word here is someONE. the fact that no one swore on the bible was strange. you would expect maybe one or two to object. but for no one to swear, demonstrates fake court.
another point, it that if you think about it, we would all agree the court we saw was the most unprofessional we had ever seen. jacko lanterns, orange ties, clowns, elephants, beavers, jokes, errors, spelling mistakes, wrong dates, word alleged.... i bet none of us have ever seen this kind of unprofessionalism previously in other courtcases, etc. you would think that if this was real, and the court knew it was going to be filmed and broadcast for millions of people to watch across the world, they would make sure spelling was correct, no errors, no jokes by judge, no orange ties, props, etc. if this was real, everyon would be uptight, on their best behaviour trying to be as professional as possible. the fact that it was everything but that demonstrates how fake this court was. it was deliberately unprofessional to show us it was hoax. but the media and hardcore (anti conrad) MJ fans still run away with what they think is truth without looking and listening to clues and facts.
verdict has not shaken my faith one bit. in fact my faith is stronger post verdict then ever before.
On the other hand, Judge Judy runs a tighter ship and it IS a show. Everything is upside down and back to front...
Post by: scorpionchik on November 10, 2011, 11:01:46 PM
Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.
I think that you are onto something... suspicious//
Finally... lolol/
Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".
In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.
You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.
I wish you shared the inconsistencies you found in TS' posts and again I wish you kept on reading his updates. You would be understanding that it is not crap but truth only proven with facts!
It's also interesting you to say that you do not believe TS/Front is guiding us, yet you still read and make posts on TS/Front's threads. Why need to waste your time if you think that these threads are crap and no guidance at all?
Anyways, this is not a "TS is fake or TS is real" discussion thread, so we should agree to disagree and move on.
I post on this and Back threads because I accept both of them as a member and reply to their and other members posts as all regular once; discussion, analysis, opinion, suggestion, new findings and ideas as everybody else does.
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 11, 2011, 01:02:57 AM
Anyways, this is not a "TS is fake or TS is real" discussion thread, so we should agree to disagree and move on. [/b]
thank you for that. people who doubt TS need to respect other forum members who dont doubt authenticity, and are looking fwd to next installement. please start another thread if you want to debate his authenticity.
Post by: TS_comments on November 11, 2011, 02:03:04 AM
May be this is off topic now.....
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Good guess...lol
Yes, good guess!!
Post by: TS_comments on November 11, 2011, 02:19:03 AM
...
MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13.
21/3 =777
But he referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?
There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!
It was future when I posted this thread (at 2:13); but it is not future anymore. The 2005 verdict timing was a reminder to watch for the 2011 verdict timing (1:17 on 11-7).
TMZ either knew the verdict in advance, or else fudged on their time (1:15). The verdict was not read until 1:17; anyone watching the clock would've known that. Also the time is documented on this thread, and HLN, as I pointed out already.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all)
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 11, 2011, 02:27:10 AM
May be this is off topic now.....
TS... is it time for level 7 yet?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
May be 11.11.11 might be a suitable date.....
I am not good at numerology, but this is what I thought about
Blessings
Good guess...lol
Yes, good guess!!
Haha TS..well I won't bet on anything that's for sure.
Post by: heartwarrior on November 11, 2011, 02:33:52 AM
Post by: TS_comments on November 11, 2011, 02:49:01 AM
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
No stroopwafels.. Sorry TS! :|
However... What I can offer you is some Swedish Pancakes. Please enjoy! ;D
(http://www.receptblogga.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/pannkakor.jpg)
Presented to you by:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqohiMy_CU[/youtube]
Well, yes -- I did enjoy ...
But somehow virtual food just lacks a bit in taste, and also in appeasing the hunger department. errrr /cook/
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 11, 2011, 02:58:30 AM
Now you'll make your 111th post on 11/11/2011 at 11/11 maybe :lol:?
I have not a clue what is it going to be about but at this time maybe you should get some sleep ;D.
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 11, 2011, 02:59:59 AM
Post by: mimi248 on November 11, 2011, 04:09:01 AM
anyone notice in the connie doco, how CM refers to him as The Source.
i dont think cm is TS. i have a different opinion on that. but just thought the "The Source" reference was interesting as TS has referenced to himself as The Source previously.
L.O.V.E to all.
OMGGG look at the hour of your post !!! 12h21 12 !!
Gos is behind this hoax for sure, and behind believer!! this can't be a coincidence
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 11, 2011, 06:53:56 AM
Let's celebrate the great day 11 - 11 - 11. My best wishes to all of you great, beautiful, thinking, fighting and LOVING people in hoaxfamily. I had difficulties to post lately, but I'm here every single day to take part of your thoughts and feelings. Blessings and L.O.V.E. to all of you!
You too...did anyone make a wish on 11/11/11 11:11:11?
Post by: curls on November 11, 2011, 08:04:15 AM
...did anyone make a wish on 11/11/11 11:11:11?
Yup! I just LOVE dates and times like these!
Post by: fordtocarr on November 11, 2011, 08:22:39 AM
I too expected TS to post today..and HE DID!! yeehaw.
( I have someone on my FB with the name Friends
Thais Santos Souza...COOL???)
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 11, 2011, 08:27:48 AM
11-11-11...my grandfather born this day 100 years ago. I miss him. Robert Robinson.
I too expected TS to post today..and HE DID!! yeehaw.
( I have someone on my FB with the name Friends
Thais Santos Souza...COOL???)
COOL :shock: but it's just a coincidence
Post by: fordtocarr on November 11, 2011, 08:56:39 AM
Post by: GINAFELICIA on November 11, 2011, 09:40:18 AM
Post by: BeTheChange on November 11, 2011, 11:08:43 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCbGHI_4Hs[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Post by: jono on November 11, 2011, 11:21:39 AM
P.S. Where are my stroopwafels? :?: :?: :?:
No stroopwafels.. Sorry TS! :|
However... What I can offer you is some Swedish Pancakes. Please enjoy! ;D
(http://www.receptblogga.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/pannkakor.jpg)
Presented to you by:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqohiMy_CU[/youtube]
Well, yes -- I did enjoy ...
But somehow virtual food just lacks a bit in taste, and also in appeasing the hunger department. errrr /cook/
Oh, no... You are right! What have I done?? /overreacting/
But wait a sec... I have a solution for you! /woohoo/
Just pm me your name (real name) and address and I'll send you a box of delicious Swedish pancakes!!
/bravo/ lolol/
Post by: Suzy7 on November 11, 2011, 06:38:42 PM
TS, I realized that after lol. I'm going with TMZ knowing the verdict in advance by reporting it at 1:15; just like they did in pronouncing the "death". Another clue to let us know, they know.
Post by: PureLove on November 11, 2011, 07:27:40 PM
Thanks for your reply BeTheChange.
TS, I realized that after lol. I'm going with TMZ knowing the verdict in advance by reporting it at 1:15; just like they did in pronouncing the "death". Another clue to let us know, they know.
EXACTLY! That must be another IN YO FACE moment for the ones who still have doubts about TMZ. Key people in TMZ knows! Period.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 11, 2011, 07:35:34 PM
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on November 11, 2011, 09:09:30 PM
Post by: Grace on November 12, 2011, 03:31:20 AM
It was future when I posted this thread (at 2:13); but it is not future anymore. The 2005 verdict timing was a reminder to watch for the 2011 verdict timing (1:17 on 11-7).
TMZ either knew the verdict in advance, or else fudged on their time (1:15). The verdict was not read until 1:17; anyone watching the clock would've known that. Also the time is documented on this thread, and HLN, as I pointed out already.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all)
The various streams were not broadcasted synchronously. Thus the timing of one specific channel does not give the truth at all.
It's like naming Caliland the umbilicus of the world and claiming everything happening there had more relevance than anything happening in other time zones. Nope.
Post by: use_your_illusion on November 12, 2011, 03:39:16 AM
...did anyone make a wish on 11/11/11 11:11:11?
Yup! I just LOVE dates and times like these!
I know right, it's so special...and the last time we will ever see it again is 12/12/12 12:12:12.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 12, 2011, 04:22:29 AM
I do think though, that is why no one caught on to paying attention to the verdict time; because we all live in different time zones. Remember times are obviously important in this hoax (numerology), and the California time zone is crucial to that.
Post by: Grace on November 12, 2011, 04:31:32 AM
@ Grace, everything happened in California surrounding this hoax. One time zone of Michael's choice, would be more significant than others because it's not possible for things to happen in accordance with every time zone; so one has to be more relevant.
I do think though, that is why no one caught on to paying attention to the verdict time; because we all live in different time zones.
Nope. Not everything in this play is happening on Caliland stage. Not at all.
I don't overly like repeating myself but obviously I did not come across clearly:
"The various streams were not broadcasted synchronously. Thus the timing of one specific channel does not give the truth at all."
Post by: msgitm on November 12, 2011, 04:42:52 AM
Wishing everyone a great 11-11-11...lest we forget.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCbGHI_4Hs[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Sad that your video has gone unnoticed. It's message is beautiful - a wonderful reminder for all of us. Thanks for sharing.
Post by: Suzy7 on November 12, 2011, 04:57:46 AM
And if California's time zone isn't more significant; than the timeline of June 25 including: timeline (of anything ie. Murray etc.), time of death, timing of almost everything, isn't valid numerology because not everything happened 'synchronously' all over the world according to one time zone.
I'm not asking you to repeat yourself, just clarify because perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
Post by: msgitm on November 12, 2011, 05:06:00 AM
Post by: applehead250609 on November 12, 2011, 05:30:09 AM
Wishing everyone a great 11-11-11...lest we forget.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCbGHI_4Hs[/youtube]
With L.O.V.E. always.
Sad that the message of your video has gone ignored but what TS whats to eat is high priority. I thought Michael's message was about love - not food. The video is a beautiful - a wonderful reminder for all of us. Thanks for sharing. *No offence TS
I saw it also and it is beautiful message to share :-*!!! Spread LOVE, LIFE and HAPPINESS,"HERE and NOW" :)!!!!! respect/
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on November 12, 2011, 10:32:57 PM
Quote
1. I agree 100% that if Murray had been found Not Guilty it would have caused riots therefore I believe the jury convicted on that fear of riots which is an emotional conviction. The jury did not want to be known as the jury who caused a horrible aftermath. Although the jury was told not to read or do all the other things the judge said not to do while not in court this jury had been exposed to everything regarding this case. The media, family, Murray, etc. helped to plant info that would remain in the juries mind while deliberating. The Casey Anthony trial was fresh and it was being said that the jury made a mistake with their verdict. Many people are angry over the decision and there has been backlash. The Murray jury did not want that kind of stuff to happen because of them.
2. There is way more to this Guilty verdict in regards to emotional based conviction. This is what I said from the beginning:QuoteThe list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.
Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:
It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.
The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.
I will explain more below about the mind games played to ensure a Guilty verdict.
3. It is my belief that the jury did not take everything into consideration and based their decision on closing arguments from the DA especially the part about MJ's kids not having their father anymore. I believe this jury allowed their emotions to take over and the DA made sure to plant subliminal heart tugging sad stuff.
I believe the jury convicted Murray because of them seeing MJ's fam in the court house, the jury felt like they owed a Guilty verdict for the fam especially seeing Katherine in the court room, that helped to ensure a Guilty verdict. Murray's own words and actions helped to convict him. The wording asked/explained to the jury allowed for a Guilty verdict.
Quote
Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
right to control one's own defense e.g. selecting one's own defense counsel
right to hear a full and precise statement of the charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right not to incriminate oneself
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality, prejudice or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right to have no interference or undue influence made by external agencies e.g. political or military leaders
right of appeal against conviction
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-trial-jurors_n_1079481.html
Quote
They knew about the involuntary manslaughter charge against Murray before they came to court and most of them know Jackson's music. A few said they were fans and one, the video animation specialist, said he had some interaction with Jackson when the singer was making the video, "Captain EO."
The juror who had some interaction with MJ may possibly be a conflict of interest according to the Kangaroo definitions. The article below says that Judge Pastor hurried the process of jury selection by the lawyers and cut the time down to 1 min per each juror. The reason given is because of the extensive jury questionnaire that the jury filled out. That could potentially be a problem if Murray's lawyers didn't have adequate time to question each juror face to face.
The tape recording Murray did with the detective and his lawyer at the hotel, was it obtained correctly? Was Murray a suspect at that time? No. Was he arrested and his rights read to him? No.
Murray was only a person of interest at that time. So maybe the tape should not have been considered as evidence. Maybe it should have been excluded. It sure did help to convict Murray though.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/23/local/la-me-0923-conrad-murray-20110924
Quote
Conrad Murray jury selection will be quick
The judge in the manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson's doctor is allowing lawyers only half the usual time to question potential panelists as they cull the pool
September 23, 2011|By Harriet Ryan, Los Angeles Times
If, as is often said, trials are won or lost in the selection of jurors, the fate of Michael Jackson's doctor may be sealed Friday when a pool of prospective jurors is narrowed to a dozen.
That jury is expected to spend about five weeks hearing testimony about the music icon's final days and the culpability of Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's $150,000-a-month personal physician who gave him the surgical anesthetic propofol as a sleep aid.
The approximately 145 potential jurors are already well-known to both sides, thanks to what the judge in the case has called "the most complete questionnaire ever" — 32 pages of questions about their background, job history, views of Jackson and exposure to the media coverage of his 2009 overdose. In an initial screening earlier this month, every potential juror said they had some knowledge of the involuntary manslaughter case against Murray.
Because the questionnaire is so thorough, Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor has said he will allow attorneys only half the normally allotted time to question the would-be jurors as a group in court.
With less than a minute per potential juror, lawyers are likely to have decided beforehand "whether they want to keep them or get rid of them," said Richard Hirschorn, a veteran Texas jury consultant.
Murray's defense lawyers retained an unidentified jury consultant to help evaluate the questionnaires. The prosecutor's office has used such consultants in the past but elected not to this time.
"It's very lean times for public prosecutors' offices," said Sandi Gibbons, a spokeswoman for the district attorney's office.
In evaluating the questionnaires, experts said, both sides are likely to home in on the questions they care about most. Hirschorn said prosecutors might focus on what jurors wrote about their experiences with doctors and prescription drugs. Particularly revealing, he said, was the question, "Has a physician ever refused to prescribe a medication that you specifically requested?"
"That's the prosecution case in one sentence — Murray should have said no" to his famous patient, Hirschorn said. People who have been turned down by doctors may be more critical of Murray's acquiescence: "I'm putting them on the jury 99 out of 100 times," he said.
Questions about how closely they followed other high-profile legal cases, including the recent Casey Anthony murder trial in Florida, might draw close scrutiny also, said Richard Gabriel, a jury consultant who worked for music producer Phil Spector's murder defense. He said jurors interested in true crime stories covered obsessively by such cable news hosts as Nancy Grace "tend to be pretty pro-prosecution."
Justice, on such programs, "has become code for conviction," he said.
Attorneys might also zero in on potential jurors' experiences with drug and alcohol addiction, the subject of three questions. Hirschorn said people who have dealt with substance abuse would probably be more open to Murray's claim that Jackson begged for propofol and gave himself the fatal dose.
"If they know somebody who has been addicted, then they know that person will do whatever they have to to get drugs," Hirschorn said.
Legal teams typically rank jurors from one to five based on their answers and information turned up by Internet or public searches. In court Friday, experts said, both sides are likely to focus on the jurors they rank as ones — the worst for their case.
"It's not a matter of picking the people you want. It's really a de-selection process: getting rid of the worst of the worst and hoping the ones that are left can be fair," said Hirschorn, who worked for the defense in the William Kennedy Smith rape trial in the early 1990s.
Both sides can excuse 10 potential jurors without giving a reason. Additionally, they can ask the judge to remove anyone who shows bias.
But Howard Varinsky, the jury consultant for prosecutors in the trials of Scott Peterson and Martha Stewart, said the short time for questioning jurors in Murray's case will probably hurt lawyers' attempts to tease out bias.
"It usually takes about five, six … minutes" of questioning, Varinsky said. "When you've got one minute, you can't do it. You're handcuffed."
The limited time also constrains follow-up questions, such as in the case of jurors who check a box identifying themselves as Jackson fans, Gabriel said.
"You don't know if that means 'I've seen every concert and own every album' or 'I just really liked "Thriller,"'" he said.
Here is the jury questionnaire on the link http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/dr-conrad-murray-jury-selection-questionnaire-releasedbelow. The info in the jury questionnaire was so much info that the lawyers and judge knew exactly what websites each juror had visited in the past before they got on the jury. Maybe that is what the judge was looking at on his pc. He was checking to make sure no tweeting was going on. fresse/
@Im_convincedmjalive Excellent post. However, I am not sure if they depended on mind manipulation to make them say guilty due to an emotional response. That is a great argument and worth exploring but the only thing that gives me pause is the timing of everything. That would be really risky to solely trust in the jury's response and expect them to be completed by 11/7 and be ready to read the verdict by 1:15 or 1:17pm unless MJ had back up plans if they picked other days but I just don't think the timing was done by accident. And saying this makes me wonder if the jury was in on it to a degree or were outside influences forcing them to make a decision quickly.@looking4truth-I didn't say they depended on mind manipulation only. If you take everything into context of what I wrote in the comment http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg369761#msg369761 you answered and put it together with the info below as a whole, the defense side used the tactics (partially) of mind manipulation. Maybe it would make you feel better if I say the defense highly influenced the juries decision. BTW this whole post isn't directed at you only. ;)
The knowledge each lawyer had about potential jurors was one way they knew who to keep or not. When I said before that psychology was used, I meant it as also using the jury questionnaire and using a jury consultant. The info below maybe will help you to understand what I mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_jury_selection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_research
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_selection
After reading what the jury did in deliberations especially the part about some of the jury not being totally convinced on Friday (which means someone had doubt) and then on Monday the majority convinced the others, that is exactly why I thought they didn't take everything into consideration. The ones who were not completely convinced IMO were basically bullied and pressured by the majority to convict. That is NOT COOL.
The reasons given why they convicted Murray are lame. Here is a link with more insight about the jury. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21281.0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/debbie-franklin-conrad-murray-trial-jury_n_1083957.html
Quote
In a separate interview broadcast Wednesday, one of the jurors said there were contentious moments, including yelling and cajoling, during the two days of deliberations.
Debbie Franklin, 48, told ABC-TV's "Good Morning America" in the first juror interview so far that most of the jurors had decided on guilt Friday, the first day of deliberations.
But, she said "not everyone was convinced that Dr. Murray was solely responsible for Michael Jackson's death."
"Toward the end of the day, we finally took a vote," Franklin said. "It was not unanimous and we talked a little more about it." The panel decided to think it over during a weekend break.
"It was stressful," said the mother of two, who is a paralegal. She said there was "yelling and we had to keep saying, `Nobody talk while this person is talking. Raise your hand if you have something to say."
The majority managed on Monday to convince all jurors that Murray was negligent and his mistakes led to Jackson death, Franklin said.
He had addictions. He asked other doctors to do it (give him the operating room anesthetic propofol). They said no. He was looking for somebody to say yes. And Conrad Murray said yes," she said.
An Associated Press reporter approached Franklin for an interview Wednesday but she refused. She said all jurors had agreed not to speak to the media, but she did not explain why they made that agreement or why she spoke to ABC.
Michael Jackson Verdict: Jury in Conrad Murray's Case Included 5 Latinos
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/11/07/michael-jackson-verdict-jury-in-conrad-murrays-case-included-5-latinos/
Maybe this ^^ is why TMZ is reporting there was a language barrier in jury deliberations.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21284.0
Post by: msgitm on November 20, 2011, 05:12:21 AM
If this has been posted elsewhere, please feel free to delete.
[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/mSBt3Rd2GCo[/embed]
Post by: Aidan_81 on November 20, 2011, 06:08:54 AM
I also know how important "Joe" part was in 2005 trial. The most raw, real hellish thing
that ever happened to adult Michael. And he was Michael Joe.
Name on death certificate should match the one on birth certificate [if it
wasn't changed legally at some point? Never heard of Michael officially changing his name.].
Certain family members claimed it's "Joe" on the birth certificate.
I do not know if the death certificate we all saw is real, but it has "Joseph" on it.
As long as same family members will not come out and say "Okay, we made it up, it
was always Joseph", I personally will not put this "little question" to rest ::P
Post by: msgitm on November 21, 2011, 11:30:01 PM
Post by: Australian MJ BeLIEver on November 22, 2011, 01:44:08 AM
Post by: bluegurl201 on November 26, 2011, 06:37:55 PM
Post by: paula-c on December 11, 2011, 07:17:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dRqn5wTLG4&feature=player_embedded
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dRqn5wTLG4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Post by: Andrea on December 12, 2011, 01:40:56 PM
I believe the pharmaceutical industry is definitely on the 'hit list' with this hoax. I mean, a person would have to believe that MJ was the real life Mr. Burns of meds if someone believes the official story. This industry is billions and billions of dollars and want to stay that way by keeping our very health under their control. Their industry profits on people being sick and mis-diagnosed all for $$. They want to make us sick and keep us sick and ...it's not good. Viruses and diseases are created just like technological devices we use every day. The marketing for a virus product is different though - they use the media to scare everyone into thinking they could become very ill or die unless they get a vaccine. Which can be quite effective on a population of people who wouldn't know otherwise. They put poisons into a person, increasing the likeliness of someone to develop something later on, ensuring a life long dependence on spending money for meds or treatments. And we're being robbed of our money for them to do it. This needs to stop and the only way it's going to is if there is massive awareness on a global scale. There just needs to be an event now to make that happen.