Mr Michael Jackson NOT mr. nice guy?

[trublu]

I do agree that this is a hoax forum, however I believe he's alive as well and if I'm wrong then I want to know. If anyone can prove us wrong then yes I want that information. But so far it seems that all information is a secret, which I don't understand. I want to know why it has to be secret. If someone is really dead, then why all the secrecy? That is why nobody who has claimed he's dead has been able to convince me, because no evidence has been provided. But IF there is evidence available, then I for sure welcome it here at the hoax forum.

I agree with you, I am also looking for the truth whatever it may be. I think people who don't think he is alive should be allowed to post here.

HOWEVER: I also want it to be evidence based.

Someone just stating that he is dead because they 'know' isn't evidence based.

[Do]

Armand Van Helden: You Don't Know Me
Chorus:
You don't even know me
You say that I'm not living right
You don't understand me
So why do you judge my life

Verse 1:
I don't ask for nothing
I'm always holding my own
Everytime I turn around it's something
People talking about what they don't know

And when I try to move on up
They're always pulling me down
I'm tired and I've had enough
It's my life and I'm living it now

Chorus:
You don't even know me
You say that I'm not living right
You don't understand me
So why do you judge my life

Verse 2:
I always wonder why
People try to hurt me
No happiness in their own lives
So they act out all there jealousies

Who are you to say that I'm living wrong
Always telling me what to do
I've decided I gotta be strong
What makes you think that I needed you
You don't know me

(Chorus)

Who are you
You say I'm not living right
Anything I tried to do
You haven't walked in my shoes
I'm gonna move on
It's my life
It's my life

[youtube:28hduyc4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDlzYB_PN5A[/youtube:28hduyc4]

[Do]

Just to make myself clear, this is for all people who were talking about sh*t during his life and after his 'death', not for the members here ofcourse

[Sinderella]

Armand Van Helden: You Don't Know Me
Chorus:
You don't even know me
You say that I'm not living right
You don't understand me
So why do you judge my life

Verse 1:
I don't ask for nothing
I'm always holding my own
Everytime I turn around it's something
People talking about what they don't know

And when I try to move on up
They're always pulling me down
I'm tired and I've had enough
It's my life and I'm living it now

Chorus:
You don't even know me
You say that I'm not living right
You don't understand me
So why do you judge my life

Verse 2:
I always wonder why
People try to hurt me
No happiness in their own lives
So they act out all there jealousies

Who are you to say that I'm living wrong
Always telling me what to do
I've decided I gotta be strong
What makes you think that I needed you
You don't know me

(Chorus)

Who are you
You say I'm not living right
Anything I tried to do
You haven't walked in my shoes
I'm gonna move on
It's my life
It's my life

[youtube:18sy5zue]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDlzYB_PN5A[/youtube:18sy5zue]

Sums it up quite well but this is also fitting...

"people can take everything away from you
but they can never take away your truth
question is
are you ready for mine?

They say I'm crazy
I really don't care
That's my prerogative
They say I'm nasty
But I don't give a damn
Getting girls is how I live
Some ask me questions
Why am I so real?
But they don't understand me
I really don't know the deal about my brothers
Trying hard to make it right
Not long to go
Before I win this fight

Everybody's talking all this stuff about me
Why don't they just let me live?
I don't need permission, make my own decisions
That's my prerogative

It's the way that I wanna live (it's my prerogative)
You can’t tell me what to do

Don't get me wrong
I'm really not souped
Ego trips is not my thing
All these strange relationships really gets me down
I see nothing wrong in spreading myself around

Everybody's talking all this stuff about me
Why don't they just let me live?
I don't need permission, make my own decisions
That's my prerogative

It's the way that I wanna live
You can’t tell me what to do

why can't I live my life
without all of the things
That people say

Everybody's talking all this stuff about me
Why don't they just let me live?
I don't need permission, make my own decisions
That's my prerogative (they say I’m crazy)

Yup.

I was only gone a day and oh my days...6pages to read back best get going :/

[Miss-Zazi95]

I dont know what this have to do with the hoax but anyway ,
MJ is a humanbeing like any one else . he has ups and downs like any one of us .
but if we want to be fair when we have an opinion about someone it has to be about him in general .. what he was like most of the times not sometimes . what most of the people who really knew him said not some of them .
Perhaps people spend too much time criticizing and speculating about Michael Jackson's odd habits and not enough time taking note of the great things he did for the world.
For example, did you know MJ was a world record holder for his charitable work? No joke, the man held a title in the Guinness Book of World Records for being the pop star to "Most Support Charities.
In his lifetime, Michael contributed more than $300 million to various organizations, and spent a great deal of time spreading the word about positive change through songs like Man in the Mirror and Black or White.
if someone like that is not a nice guy then i dont know who is ??!!

Exactly my thoughts  :|  :lol:
We may not know him but it doesn't mean he's bad in reality. Normal guy.

[BeTheChange]

Someone once suggested that L.O.V.E. could be an acronym for:

L – Listen
O – Observe
V – Verify
E - Evaluate

I remember that I really liked it because I felt that it fit the hoax perfectly; also, I could see it coming from MJ himself...as a sort of ‘rule-‘ or ‘guidebook’ for us (believers) in determining the ‘truth’.  If you think about it, it extends beyond the hoax and can be used in every aspect of our lives.

In regards to what’s happened with COTW, I think it is a great opportunity for us to learn something...but we need to go through all 4 steps in L.O.V.E.  I, personally, was hoping that he/she would stick around longer because I was still between the ‘observe’ and ‘verify’ stage.  Some, like Souza, were way ahead of me and managed to place some very good arguments for ‘verifying’ the information that COTW was providing.  That, in itself, has taught me that I need to organize the arguments/evidence of the hoax, so that I can better defend my position if need be.  And something tells me that we will all need to be prepared to defend both Michael and the hoax...and probably sooner rather than later.

Based on the first 3 steps of L.O.V.E., and the posts in this thread, I think it’s safe to say that most either do not believe what COTW had to say or that he/she did not ‘pass’ the ‘verify’ stage (i.e. he/she did not provide good arguments /evidence/proof that MJ is dead).  In preparing for any future instances where this might happen again with a ‘friend’ of MJ...or preparing for the onslaught of people that will inevitably make their way to the forum once the hoax is made public....I think it would be in our best interest to now ‘evaluate’ what took place with COTW.  

I haven’t gotten that far in my own ‘evaluation’ yet (I just reread the entire thread but I am NOT a morning person!)...but some of the things that I’ll be thinking about are: in what ways was it handled well; likewise, in what ways could it have been handled better, what sorts of questions were/are more effective in helping us ‘verify’ the information being given, what hoax information have I determined is FACT, based on the steps of L.O.V.E., that I can use to defend Michael and/or the hoax?  And, last but certainly not least, how can I remain objective, like any good investigator, despite my innate need to defend MJ and the hoax?

Discussion/debate is good, but only if we can learn something from it.  I welcome any thoughts on the ‘evaluation’ questions I’ve posted above, or any other comments that would help us (MJ’s Army of L.O.V.E.) be better prepared to deal with these issues in the future.  In keeping with the spirit of learning, and of love, there is no need to mention poster’s by name (i.e. so and so shouldn’t have said this or that).

With L.O.V.E. always.

[ROFL]

:?   :?  :roll:  :|  :arrow:

[paula-c]

I believe that Michael I live through this one, and say this for any person who creates the opposite, like that since in this forum there are many indications that demonstrate that I live through this one, which believes that Michael this one dead must come with tests and things do not affirm without  foundation, only in spite of saying " I know MJ and that this one died ", it is not a test of anything, this matter is serious for all and many mas for Souza and Mo that they have invested a lot of time and money in this forum, with objectivity and solid arguments it is that it is possible to demonstrate any affirmation.

[mopey3655]

I carefully read everything that was posted in this particular forum last night and I must say I was very disappointed in the way some of us responded to comments made, especially by callofthewild.  I understand that this forum is called mjhoaxforum and the main purpose of this forum is to discuss the POSSIBLE hoax, the POSSIBILITY that MIchael faked his death and I stress those words.  I agree that Souza made alot of relevant points as to the inconsistencies, the botched investigation and as far I am concerned the whole circumstances surrounding Michael's "death".  Callofthewild must admit there are too many of them to just sweep it under the rug and any sane person with some common sense would have alot of doubts too.  With reference to Michael's real given name it seems as if Micheal used both of them Joseph and Joe.  So that would be a serious debate as to what his real given name was.  The main reason why I joined this particular forum was because of all these unconsistencies and untruths circulating surrounding Michael's death,  but I also want to know the truth whatever that is because I now see that we may never know the "real" truth.  We presently have our truth and their truth.  Our truth in what we have actually read between the lines and also what was so obvious to us.  Then its their truth,  what the media is reporting and others who claimed they knew Michael and was witness to what they say happened but the fact that every last one of them has a differenct version leads one to wonder what exactly is going on.  I live in the Bahamas and I have never had the privilege to see Michael perform live and that is something that I wish to experience and to think that I may never get that opportunity is a hard pill to swallow.  But the bottom line of all this is to get to the truth as to what exaclty happened and if Michael did in fact die on 25th June, 2009 and I've come to the realization that many of us don't want to hear it or refuse to face that fact,  there is a possibility that he is gone.  I dont feel COTW was treated fairly.  Because we dont want to think of that being a possibility we argue and vent at anyone who feels that he is gone and expresses their opinions and I think that is wrong.  When I first started reading COTW posts I really began to suspect that he/she may be Michael and I expressed that in one of the other forums on MJHF, but after reading the posts last nite I dont feel that he/she is but who knows it could be one of the brothers, sisters or even Katherine herself.  We may never find out what happened to Michael and I think if Katherine herself came in person and tell us he is gone we probably wont believe her.  The first thing we would ask is "Did you see him dead"?  and we all know she admited that she didnt see him .  I dont think anyone or anything in this world will convince many of us that Michael is dead.   and thats the sad truth.  Anything is possible with Michael,  one thing I know for sure I dont feel Michael allowed CM to administer those drugs to him.  People are saying including COTW that Michael loved his children and would not do this (faking his death) to his children but I dont think Michael would do something like that either knowing the risks to have his children fatherless and motherless, because Michael was both to them, the only parent they had so COTW you really have to think about that too and I dont feel Michael was on drugs the way the media and some of his own so called friends and family are saying, thats just a cover up to try and convince us that that is what really happened.  Please I hope I havent offended anyone because speaking for myself I really believe that Michael may be alive due to the evidence that has been presented and it hasnt been much concrete to convince me otherwise. Much respect to all.

[mopey3655]

One other point I must add like Souza said how do we know who is who on this forum we could be conversating with God knows who and people could come on this forum claiming to be holy Mary, mother of God for all I know but when and if you do and lay claims to what you think you know or to try and convince us that what you are telling us as far as whether Michael is dead or alive please come with something that is believable or concrete not make a statement and is not willing or is unable to back it up.  Some are making statements about the circumstances but when you question it they say oh because its an ongoing investigation I cant say anymore.  Everyone else is divulging their information on tweets and through the media so it cant be that much of an investigation because everyone seems to want to get a piece of Michael's pie and have their 5 minutes of fame whether it be the truth or not.  Another thing has anyone gotten the real scoop on this Dr. Conrad Murray ? who is he, where is he from because he has an accent like he could be from the Caribbean, Trinidad or Jamaica or one of the other Caribbean islands.  Who is this man? I am from the Bahamas which is in the Caribbean and I know for sure he is from the Caribbean but definitely it is not a Bahamian accent.  So please could someone please enlighten me if they have any info on CM.

[ER911]

@mopey:)
I didn't quote your statement as there are so many in this thread I didn't want anyone to have to re-read the same ones or like me,..become dizzy sifting! LOL

Anyway, I completely agree with your thought provoking post. I fully recognize that everyone reads words differently as opposed to how the poster may have really meant the words to be conveyed.

With that in mind, I don't recall CATW stating anything that revealed they believed Michael purposely & willfully did anything that would take him away from his children.

It seemed to me that CATW started out my making statements like we all do & then attempted to answer questions w/o revealing their identity. Further along some became frustrated that they would not answer i.e. distrusting.

As some others have stated, we never really know who is who & I agree that even if some would produce some type of "proof", it too would be subjected to ridicule. I totally understand the lack of trust, but I worry that if we're not careful we'll miss the truth when it is presented.

One thing I don't think anyone caught onto is that when CATW stated that they had last seen Michael was a month or so before he "died or whatever it was he did". I realize that isn't an exact quote, but it's pretty close.

When I read that portion of the statement, I never once viewed it as a hint that something other happened than his death.

I immediately read it as anger in CATW statement that Michael would put himself in that position to cause harm to himself. Maybe I'm incorrect & maybe I'm not.

Other than this we need to remember there are members here who may not believe he is alive, but still hold out hope & others whom may believe he has died, but want to get justice.

It's all just out of love for Michael & that is surely a common bond we all share.

[paula-c]

I do not refuse to the possibility that Michael could die, ! come on guys! This it is the destination of all, which I say is that when someone affirms something it is necessary to have the tests in the hand

[Sinderella]

@bethechange I like that breakdown of LOVE,well done for swerving away from the drama and putting valuable questions forward.Maybe something to keep working on?Fit's beautifully into his message and legacy.

After being gone a day and missing about 7pages of posts, I went back and re-read the ENTIRE thing. I can agree on most of what is posted here. You cannot come onto a forum/website specifically aimed at proving something and post comments against the fact. You are bound to get your ass kicked by the majority so,firstly,COTW you really should of replied to Chappie as a general member of this forum and maybe not mentioned you where his close friend, or anything to do with him, and you certainly should have refrained from saying he was dead. I mean...you’re on a forum with people trying to prove the opposite. That isn't what they want to hear UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE IT Which..reading the comments is the general consensus on the issue. You are and have every right to comment along with every other human being on this planet who wants to, but you must have known you were going to get full on attacked by a mob of angry and non agreeing MJ fans/friends/whatever.Really it appears to me you,whoever you are,and I honestly do respect your point of view as we all have one,you were creating a debate on purpose.
If you know he is dead, then you should really spend the time you are typing on here, going to his family who you may or may not know..who is to say, and tell them to do better with proving it,leaving NO doubt in anyones mind-believer or not that Michael has passed over.It is unfair if they can do so,and are not.
No sane person is seeing those documents and thinking 'oh well, it says there...so must be gospel’. You would have to be on crack yourself to look at anything filtered out via the media and believe it.His fans deserve to know.Before the trials,not that they will prove anything because they are so weak and everyone is CLEARLY in on this whole sherade,but because they are his fans.His love,and invested their time,hearts,and energy into supporting him.If he can't do it anymore,his family should.
I agree with Souza, that not one of that family have shown any sign of grief that I have seen.You of course grieve in private,but you don't leave it in the living room when you need to face the world,it is part of you from then on and is in your face,eyes,voice,and actions even if you don't realise it.
They lost a son,brother,father,best friend,uncle,god father...and one 11yr old girl tried at the memorial.The fans do not want to disbelieve that his family are THAT cold hearted but you have to admit,looking at the evidence,which is what this site is about-they do not appear to be very sad at all.From what I can make out,they have all gained from it in some way. and I don't mean in the bigger heart,must continue his legacy way..I mean in the ching ching way.
That is my own personal opinion,don't get rowdy with me over it.It's what I have 'observed'.
I do not work in law, I do not work in medicine, I work in Music and Entertainment and I do not claim to know the ins and outs of what is normal for an autopsy report..HOWEVER, I am intelligent, I am well educated and I did go to university the first time around to be a forensic scientist and criminologist. Having studied human biology and organic chemistry and starting my course, I was present at an autopsy, and I did view the documents that are standard. The ones released are for want of a better word hysterical. They only prove whoever filled them out didn't know what day it was and was clearly not overseeing the autopsy of one Mr MJ Jackson-I am leaving his middle name out for sake of not causing another disagreement over his name, even though I know it is Joe for the record.
My advice to you would be to 1.if you are such a friend to Michael, find a more productive way of proving and announcing his 'death' to his fans who believe he is alive than in a comment on a website. You are doing no one a favour,yourself,Michael or anyone here reading it.
2. Refrain from calling people mentally unstable/a lunatic or whatever it was you said to one of the people who run this site. If she/he is mentally unstable for not being a sheep for the media and thinking and questioning, everyone on here is here for the same reason,inc myself, and I for one do not condone being called mentally unstable by a complete stranger, claiming to know Michael Jackson, on a website, sat behind a laptop screen.
If you have information we do not to back everything you say up..then I am 100% willing to sit and listen and consider it.You can't come on here and mouth off about him being dead and only say 'I know because....I just know' if that were valid,then I am saying he is alive,and I know because..I just know. There...we are quits.

Now,on to the original topic of this..MJ being human,having a ball ache now and again,getting his Diva on,and oh yeah....him being multi racial...WHAT!?
It is barbaric to suggest,call,and accuse someone-being Michael-of things when the man isn't here to defend himself!!That goes for anyone.
This thread was un-nessassary.It was an attack on a human being,once again Michael being thought of as anything and everything BUT one.The man was/is always has been always will be 100million% an entertainer.It was one of the single reasons he was put on this earth to grace all of our lives.Out of 6billion people in this world...I would put a hefty $ bet on there not being many of those if ANYONE who does not know his name,or what he symbolises.
He is and always will be in another stratosphere to the rest of humanity,sometimes a good thing...sometimes bad.He is out there on his own,and so no one can really ever guage just what he goes through,thinks,needs,wants,feels,misses,loves..etc.What we can guage though is that he is flesh,bone,blood and does ALL of the above.Human being-not machine and certainly not a cash machine as I think that is what he was seen as more often than not.

So,he got pissed off,pulled a rock star diva effort now and again,and wasn't in perfect health,welcome to my life....You adapt to the people around you.I have had people around me when i'm doing amazingly well say 'you're like part transformer,you're amazing,can you do this,this,that,this,oh and also...this'I am and never will be anywhere near Michael Jackson's level of human being but since we both are,I can relate to some of what he puts up with.
The constant pressure from people,the nagging,the not taking no for an answer,the success and thinking I fucking worked my ass of for this,so yeah..I am going to be a bit of a diva and demand what I want when I want it..ok I never demanded blue m&m's be removed from the bowl LOL but he had EVERY right to be a SOB on occassions that he felt he needed to be.He madeA LOT of people A LOT of money and lets be honest he still is.
It takes NOTHING away from his abilities,skills,talent,effort,his giving to the world,his L.O.V.E of all things beautiful and precious and the other infinite number of reasons we all love him,respect him,miss him and continue to support him.It only proves what the man has tried to say repeatedly his entire life,through words and songs..even films..I AM HUMAN GIVE ME AN EFFING BREAK.
I've fallen out with people I've worked on projects with,who have probably slanderred me and taken credit for what I did..infact I know they have.It happens.It's show business.
My ex friend wasn't QJ but he is still pretty powerful in the music industry in the genre he works within but the music industry does not leave any room for tight friendships and if it does they are rare and to be cherished..but to be wary of.

As I stated in an earlier post I have also suffered from BDD due to an eating problem I had, I am fine to talk about it to anyone. It was clear to those around me, I would NOT appreciate someone who called themselves my 'friend' bringing it up on a forum for people to know and discuss without my consent or availability to talk WITH them about it. True or not. It isn't an easy thing to have. It is painful and heartbreaking for those around you to see.But,I unlike Michael had people around me who didn't just leave me to self destruct,helped me and can honestly call themselves my friend.As I said on my first comment on this thread,I am glad y'all are not on my top 5 speed dial list.No one helped him through his BDD so imagine if he was dying............oh wait......no one was there when that went down either..or not as is the case.
M$CHA£L is how his name should be spelt.Half name...half dollar signs.

SO WHAT his skin changed colour...might of been self inflicted,might have been someone else's doing,might of...wait for it actually have been a genetic skin condition,but again...when did it effect his ability to be the 8th wonder of the universe?Never.And it never changed my opinions of him or his music.
It was totally uncalled for to bring up his skin colour,use it to start a mini war because so many people have opinions on it,we might never find out,and it has nothing to do with why any of us are here.so well done you for making race a talking point.
I can't say what his feelings were on being black. As far as I am aware he was proud and repeatedly told the world so. The speech he gave when he said ‘I know, when I look in the mirror, I know my race, I know I am black”. I don't see someone avoiding being labelled black talking at a black rights conference, to black people...call me mad but...if they wanted to get a liar in they would of got anyone in.
Saying he pulled the 'i'm black and it is because I am black'card out in court or when it aided his personal goals is outfuckingrageous.You should really retract that statement as it is slanderous...well so is your whole comment but that is really below the belt.
I have 4different 1/4 heritage and anyone who saw me when I was under 15 to now..could say I've bleached mine as I am lighter than I was when I was younger...it is an absurd statement to make,but at least I have the chance to vocally defend myself.

I am beyond outraged at the entire thing.Where is the L.O.V.E honestly?
I think everyone needs to get back to investigating things that really matter and getting to the truth.Michael Needs you.


Sorry if anyone disagrees with any of that,I haven't had time to write it out since the topic started.I may have repeated other arguments.As I said to COTW at the start,everyone is entitled to their opinion,we have the luxury of free will and thought but it is about respecting other people's and learning when to give..or not give yours that is the key.
I am not preaching at anyone,those are my views and personal truths.
I am here,I believe and I'm good to go into battle for the man who helped shape who I am

Left with Love.

Peace out
Sinderella.x

[*Mo*]

But the bottom line of all this is to get to the truth as to what exaclty happened and if Michael did in fact die on 25th June, 2009 and I've come to the realization that many of us don't want to hear it or refuse to face that fact, there is a possibility that he is gone. I dont feel COTW was treated fairly. Because we dont want to think of that being a possibility we argue and vent at anyone who feels that he is gone and expresses their opinions and I think that is wrong.

Please don't include me in "many of us don't want to hear it or refuse to face that fact" or "we dont want to think of that being a possibility".  I'm not in denial, nor would I reject valid proof that Michael Jackson indeed died on 06/25/2009.  So far I haven't seen anything that proves to me he did die, quite the contrary.  

We back up every statement we make as to why we are convinced he hoaxed his death, every post is well argumented, so why would we blindly accept sayings by an anonymous poster who claims to have been Mike's friend, providing no evidence of that friendship or backing up his claims?

I read this entire thread before I posted my very first reply on page 10, after I had read each and every reply of callofthewild, and to me it was very obvious that he just selectively replied to posts by ignoring very good arguments.  Anyone could have claimed what he did.

Let's not forget that this is the Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators website, on which we forensically examine the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th 2009 and beyond.  If one feels the need to claim certain things, they'd better back those up with evidence or good arguments.  Hearsay is not allowed as evidence in a court of law, and will be rejected here as well.

[CC]

If I were friend of MJ I can't come here and say all the thinks that were said here... I really can´t do this... no even if he is dead or alive...
If he is dead I can´t try to make this kind of statements on a hoax forum with a lot of people thinking different, and if he is alive (who I think) I can´t come here and say that he is alive, off course!
maybe... and just maybe... I would make some post just to taste the waters... even if I were a closest friend and Knowing him... I doubt about the posibility of him hoaxing his dead, he could do that, and why I have to know?