Mr Michael Jackson NOT mr. nice guy?

[chappie]

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21.
Gmopp28, I echo your sentiments. For 30+ years I’ve been around this business it never ceases to amaze me the crap the public will buy into in the name of “fandom.” To borrow a line from you: “I’m a bit tired of you Michael lovers who believe anyone who doesn’t say nothing but positive things about MJ is a traitor.”



I knew MJ & I know Q. Yep, that’s true, my name can be found on every studio project they worked on. MJ was without question one of – if not the – greatest entertainer to grace the stage. His artistry, dedication and discipline were awe inspiring. But for as sweet and kind as he could be off stage, & HE WAS, he could also be a real SOB. Like many great artist in history MJ was equal parts genius and madness. You may not like it but just because you choose not to believe something & it does not fit into your fantasy does not make it any less true. MJ would stab you in the back quicker than anyone if it meant getting his way --> don’t doubt it. He was an incredibly fickle man. MJ also had a terrible habit of taking credit for others work on projects. 



Quincy Jones is a good man. He is a wonderful friend to those of us lucky enough to be in his life. How dare ANYONE criticize him for expressing the truth about his relationship with MJ when those of you who don’t know ANY of the parties involved spend an exorbitant amount of time posting your comments and opinions. Good, bad, ugly or indifferent, it does not mean he mourns MJ’s loss any less. In the end MJ was horrible in his treatment of Q. Publicly MJ always took MORE than half of the credit for their – or any of his – professional collaborations. MJ went off the deep end in EVERY aspect of his life and Q – who is no stranger to crazy himself at times – tried to reign him in, but there was no talking to MJ, it was his way or the highway. For those of you who want to bash Q for his comments about MJ’s changing skin color – HERE’S ANOTHER FACT: HE’S 100% RIGHT.


It was obvious to anyone who spent a substantial period of time with MJ (even as far back as the 80's) that he suffered from Body Dysmorphic Disorder. On more than one occasion I personally witnessed MJ recoil - yes, recoil - at the sight of his own reflection. Then the surgeries started one after the other. Q IS THE ONLY ONE WHO LOVED & CARED ABOUT MJ ENOUGH TO CALL HIM ON IT & URGED HIM TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP FOR HIS PROBLEM, and MJ repaid his concern by stomping out of more than one studio session! I know this for fact because I was there.


Like it or not, FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD of his life MJ did not want to be Black. He believed it was part of what (in his mind) made him ugly. The man went to great lengths to make sure his own children would not be Black or have Black features. He went out of his way to divorce himself "personally" from the Black community & was only Black when he felt it would serve his purpose (think trial), if questioned by the media – or they (the Black community) offered him an award. (True story.)


UNDERSTAND, MJ WAS NOT A RACIST. But he was self-loathing. MJ didn’t care if you were Black, HE DID NOT dislike Black people, HE just did not want to be Black. It’s a fact. I say this as a Bi-racial American who was at first horrified by this truth, and then upon seeing for myself that there was really an "illness" behind his actions, I came to pity MJ. MJ just didn’t find Black beautiful or attractive, & he certainly felt that Blacks were intellectually inferior in a majority areas, especially in business. WHO KNOWS HOW OR WHY he came to be this way, BUT HE DID.


MJ was using skin bleaching creams for years, YEARS – long before the public caught on – and everyone around him knew it. (So did LaToya by the way – or do you all think she has just gotten lighter due to age?) This info has even been confirmed (publicly) by numerous sources over the years, including former relatives, co-workers, employees, & biographers alike and has fallen on deaf ears. God-forbid MJ fans consider any truth that does not serve to extend the MJ myth. IT is in large part the reason why his more prominent Black friendships (Q, Diana, Lionel, etc.) fell apart.


When MJ's skin tone started to become uneven in areas DUE TO his repeated over-beachings, SUDDENLY he had Vitiligo. READ THE AUTOPSY. The ME DID NOT INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRM the diagnosis of the disease, he recorded that there was "a lack of melanocytes in areas of the skin that presented CONSISTENT with Vitiligo", and listed the condition in the report (as noted) only because it was a part of preexisting medical records indicating MJ was “treated” for Vitiligo. Only ONE doctor’s records - Arnold Klein, MD - ever reflected a diagnosis of Vitiligo. (& MJ’s doctors took their orders from him.) The report could just as easily said “CONSISTENT” with repeated skin bleaching.” That will be one of the bombshells to come out at trial. The autopsy report also shows that ALL OTHER ORGANS & BODILY SYSTEMS COMMONLY EFFECTED & TESTED TO VERIFY A VITILIGO DIAGNOSIS in a (ANY) patient - the eyes, the endocrine system, etc. - were found to be “UNREMARKABLE” and showed NO SIGNS of the disease. The autopsy report also notes finding plenty of MJ’s prized melanocyte destroying bleaching creams in his house.


And to the “fans” who say it was hereditary: THAT WAS MJ's BIGGEST COUP. There is NO PROOF – NOR WILL THERE EVER BE – that MJ’s paternal grandfather (or any other blood relative) EVER had Vitiligo. Only MJ’s word and that of family members WHO KNEW BETTER THAN TO GO AGAINST MJ's ORDERS lest they risk being cut off financially. It was an outright LIE. (One fabricated by Bob & MJ, invented for Oprah, and perpetuated by family & diehard fans to save face.) Come on now, how convenient, blame it on a distant relative who was dead long before MJ was even born.


DON'T BLAME Q FOR KEEPING IT REAL. MJ’s GREATEST talent was his ability to MANIPULATE the media and the (his) public. He WANTED you to view him as a demigod. For him it was sport. MJ’s fate was of his own making. That may be a bitter pill swallow but it is no less the truth. There’s lots of truth yet to come. Keep the lawsuits coming, and all the TRUTH will become a part of the record & MJ's final legacy, & not just the "image" the Estate is trying to preserve. There were SO MANY wonderful things about MJ that should be remembered & celebrated, but in truth, there was another side that the public will not take kindly to, and sadly, when it does, MJ's Estate will never recover.

Posted at 3:26 AM on Sep 17, 2010 by FoQ

Chappie

[jacilovesmichael]

Hmmm... I don't know what to make of that comment.

[suspicious mind]

wow . thought i'd read some more of the post. got to page 4 and my brain hurts. just more confusion.what it all seems to boil down to is maybe just maybe michael was a human being with positive and negative traits just like the rest of us . hmm imagine that.

[~Souza~]

Interesting comment.

I think there is a big chance the poster is right about some stuff, although I am sure that even the people that worked with him, didn't really know him. But I do think he was a pain in the ass sometimes and I have said that many times. We can't all be nice 24/7, ALL of us have a 'dark' side, so does Mike. I think that if he wanted something, he got it, however and whenever. Add to that that he was fucked many times by a lot of snakes, that really changes your attitude as well. I can't blame him, it's human nature. If I would always say what I really thought... Sometimes you just need to keep up appearances and I think he was good at that.

The vitiligo is also something that's bugging me. I am not so sure that it is because he didn't want to be black. Maybe they did something in his make-up. I have discussed this with Mo a few times and although I know vitiligo can spread fast as hell, there is one thing bugging me. He had a spot on his hand (make-up on the hand for mixing and comparing to the color of your skin) and face and neck. Places where the make-up was applied. There are a few possibilities:

1. They put poison in his foundation that distroyed his pigment.
2. He really has vitiligo and for some reason he never had the brown parts around the eyes that other vitiligo patients have or he used theatrical make-up to cover it up (this we should see on pictures, because that make-up is really thick).
3. This poster is right and he did have an illness that made him think being black made him ugly.

To me there is no option where he just didn't want to be black, I don't believe that becoming white was his own fault. I also don't believe he didn't want his children to be black. But the continuing smooth skin color of his face through the years bugs me. I think option 2 isn't even a far fetched thought ...

Anyway, I think there is a lot we don't know about the man.

[Liberian Girl Heehee]

Believe what you want to believe.  I am just amazed at what people who are "close to the source" will say, after the source is gone.  I wonder what FoQ will be saying when the source returns.   8-)

I go with this opinion myself....

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[teerockjelli]

well, I hope he wasn't Mr. Nice Guy at the end of the day...

hopefully when he saw that he was being controlled into doing 50 shows instead of 10, that he said "nigger, fu@k you" and I don't mean nigger as in black person,  I mean it to say "ignorant muthafuccas, fu@k you, I ain't doin s#!t"

sorry for the foul language, but I know no other way to say exactly what I mean and feel  :|

[jacilovesmichael]

Souza I agree about everyone having a dark side. In fact, I've thought about this a lot about myself. Most people view me as an "overly nice" person, I've been told I'm TOO nice a lot of times. But if you ask my mother for instance, she will tell you how much of a little b*tch I can be if I don't get my way. I think everyone has different sides like you said, but perhaps even more so for certain personality types. When I care about something, I care a lot, to the point where I will do anything in the name of it...including negative things. I can cry at the drop of a hat if something hurts me or touches my heart, and the next minute I can be screaming and cussing at whoever pisses me off. And usually it's not just because I'm offended or something but because I feel so strongly that my view of the topic at hand is right. lol. At least I can admitt it. But I've had people tell me before that they "couldn't see me ever getting mad..." and I just have to laugh at that and think to myself that they don't know me very well, but maybe I'll keep it that way because it's nice to be viewed in such a positive light.

Maybe that's kind of how Mike thought about things? I don't know. But I do know that I am a positive person at my core, but in this world you cannot ignore or get away from all the negative vibrations, and to ignore them does absolutely nothing for the world. You have to confront them to make any kind of difference. The trick is to confront the negativity without letting it consume you. You confront it - meaning you have a difficult conversation with someone, yell at someone, fire someone, whatever it may be -but then you move on from it and leave the negative energy where it was. You'll come out of that situation with your spirit weighing less because of the negative energy you got rid of, and the situation/people involved that you left behind will then learn and be able to grow from it, even if it hurt them. I think all emotions and all situations in this life need to be embraced, or we simply cannot evolve.

I also don't think he would just want to change his skin color, especially to the point of being white as a ghost. I could see wanted to lighten the skin a bit, but surely he'd want to keep some color to his skin? I can't say for him obviously, but I think most people wouldn't prefer to look that pale. But it's not completely impossible.

It's just so interesting... everyone who talks about him acts like they know him so well..but they all say different things. Can't all be true. Can't all be false though either.

[trublu]

I also don't think Michael was some kind of God, and think he was probably a pain at times as we all are.

The bit about changing his skin is unsettling and if we are to believe the writer, then personally I think it goes beyond just being a 'pain' and is down to psychological problems as the writer said. But still, I am sorry, but I would find this very difficult to accept or forgive.

If we are to believe the reader, it changes a lot if you ask me -meaning that Michael is no longer 'the victim' and he did some pretty terrible things too.

I personally don't believe it, as it could have been written by anyone, even if it's someone in the know, sounds like they hold a grudge.

[teerockjelli]

here is my response in the comments on this article of tmz, which was also a response to foQ

"Michael Jackson was a household name all over the world for over a decade before his skin became light. He was loved by many races as a black man WAY BEFORE so called "wanting to appeal to other races so he turned white theory" (but I do believe his vitilogo was a reaction to his original plastic surgery) Also, the "not being bothered with black people" is another lie. Michael Jackson gave millions to the United Negro College Fund, putting his money to good use for those who need it, not only there, but he also put the USA for Africa We Are The World thing together, hello? Africa=black people

The only time I recall the courts system charging anyone innocent is after the alleged suspect has spent time in jail. Usually after the real perpetrator has confessed/or proof comes forward that the person is innocent."

thought I would add it here too  :geek:

[Serenitys_Dream]

I mean no offense to anyone but...

The first thing that came to mind was credibility. I am to beLIEve this poster is credible because they say they are?

Now they say that "UNDERSTAND, MJ WAS NOT A RACIST...he certainly felt that Blacks were intellectually inferior in a majority areas, especially in business."

Well that IS a Racist belief. The basis of racism is the thinking that one race is superior to the other be it intellectually or in another area. This is an outright contradiction and the poster is suggesting Michael was racist.

Michael stated himself that he knew who he was all he had to do was look into a mirror, he was a black man.

In this picture Michael looks quite young. I find it hard to believe that he was bleaching his skin in patches like this picture shows us.

[attachment=0:18585lz4]vitiligo.jpg[/attachment:18585lz4]
It is more likely that it is Vitiligo and that as a result of such large patches, over his entire body, of skin which had lost pigment, that makeup just wasn't going to a feasible camouflage at some point so he started using lighten creams. This is the ONLY remedy that is offered to make the skin more evenly coloured unless you TRY a skin cell transplant.

And lets not forget what Tupac said about Quincy Jones and what Professor Griff, from "Public Enemy" has stated about him too.

[youtube:18585lz4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsI1A_vMEr8[/youtube:18585lz4]

[BeTheChange]

Hmmm...well, let’s just remember that there’s usually three sides to every story and I’m sure one can find some ‘truth’ in all three.  I’m sure some of what this poster says is true...especially the part about some fans putting Mike on a ‘can-do-no-wrong’ pedestal.  I think this, in itself, just added to Mike’s feelings of self-consciousness.  Heck, most of us try to look ‘good’ for those we love and who love us...try to imagine having to look ‘good’ for billions of people.  That would cause anyone to be unsure of themselves.  Mix that in with Mike’s own need for perfection, along with the media whores foaming at the mouth, just waiting for him to f*ck up...and you have an amount of pressure very few people in this world will ever experience.

The whole Quincy thing is getting real old, real fast.  Sure he deserves some credit but who is this poster trying to fool?  Was it Quincy’s voice that billions of people spent money on albums to listen to?  Was it Quincy’s dancing that everyone, of all ages, tried to copy...that artists TODAY try to emulate?  Was it Quincy who went out each night to perform to millions around the globe, needing to practice and rehearse vigorously...needing to damage his body (and health), sometimes for not even a penny?  I could go on and on here...but the bottom line is that, IMO, Mike gave Quincy all the credit and respect he was due...given the fact that had it not been for MJ, Quincy’s lifestyle would be somewhat different today...NOT the other way around.

As for Mike’s legacy...if some bleaching cream is what, in the poster’s mind, is gonna tarnish people’s perception of the genius that MJ is...well, then those are NOT true fans, nor do they have a heart because if he was intentionally changing the color of his skin, it most likely stems from some sort of psychological problem.  And that comes as a shock to people?  Shit, the multi-billion dollar ‘self-help’ industry, along with all the rich psychiatrists running around today...were NOT built for Mike.  Most people have issues, that’s human nature...BUT imagine your own issues, and then add in the need for perfection in all you do and how you look, mix in a bit of being gawked at every single second that you’re in public and then having pics of you scattered everywhere for billions to see and talk about, then you might as well thrown in having media whores write stories about you that aren’t true and that make you look like a ‘freak’...but hell, why stop there.  Finish it all off with having most of the entire world unsure as to whether or not you molested kids!  Once you do all that...then we can talk about having ‘issues’.

Even if MJ didn’t want to be black, even if he was bleaching his skin (which I find hard to believe)...but even if...even if he was a complete asshole at times (which I don’t doubt for a second)...how, in God’s green earth, does that change the fact that this MAN has given more to charity than ANY other person in the world (was that just for ‘sport’???)....how does it change the fact that HE has broken more records than ANYONE else (not Quincy)....how does it change the fact that he grew up in the spotlight and lived a life that NO ONE can fully understand....how does it change the fact that he is, and always has been, a HUMAN genius....but, most importantly, how does it change the fact that NONE of this was ever anyone’s ‘business’ but Mike’s?

With L.O.V.E. always.

[trublu]

Thanks for posting that video Serenitys_Dream. I had not seen it, I guess there is still plenty for me to be reading up on!

[Serenitys_Dream]

Thanks for posting that video Serenitys_Dream. I had not seen it, I guess there is still plenty for me to be reading up on!

You're welcome.

I would just like to add too that in the picture I posted, it seems it was taken before Michael had undergone plastic surgery so Vitiligo would not have been a result of that and skin cell transplants are a new medical procedure that has only been recently tried for sufferers of Vitiligo.

[trublu]

As for Mike’s legacy...if some bleaching cream is what, in the poster’s mind, is gonna tarnish people’s perception of the genius that MJ is...well, then those are NOT true fans, nor do they have a heart because if he was intentionally changing the color of his skin, it most likely stems from some sort of psychological problem.

Firstly, I am not a 'fan', although I admire Michael for his humanitarian efforts and his talent. So you are right there.

I have to say that if it was true, yes I would find it hard to accept because if he a) thought black people were inferior in some way and b) bleached his skin because he thought it was ugly then he would be classed as racist for whatever reason, and therefore be a hypocrite and yes I would feel very insulted indeed.I'm sorry but that would just not be acceptable in my opinion.

However, I do not for a minute think this is true!

EDIT: Also, saying if it was all true and he just thought black people were inferior and ugly, then we need to look at why he thinks that, his upbringing etc. True, but then why does anyone become racist? Normally because of some deep rooted problems. Do we need to look at the reasons for every single person being a racist in this case?

Again, I must state that I don not think any of this is true about Michael! But it is an interesting debate.

[~Souza~]

Believe what you want to believe.  I am just amazed at what people who are "close to the source" will say, after the source is gone.  I wonder what FoQ will be saying when the source returns.   8-)

I go with this opinion myself....

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I am not saying I 100% believe the poster, I am simply saying that there could be more truth in his comment than many fans would like to believe. I don't know what's up between Mike and QJ, I was never there and I can't have an opinion about it. As far as I know Mike always thanked Quincy and gave him credit, but in the end it was him that made the albums big, not Quincy. And probably that's something we'll never know, because it's none of our business. I agree that people should have had the balls to come up with this when Mike was still officially alive, then he could have defended himself. Issues like this should be discussed privately, not in puclic when the person can't defend himself.