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My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 27, 2010, 09:51:07 PM
Hi, i am new here, but i follow MJ's death or "death", how you guys like to think, since last year. I never took this Hoax thing seriously, because i thought that it was just "another-Elvis-like-thing", and some fans were really desperate comparing low resolution pics wanting to see MJ everywhere.  Even if i thought it was crazy or weird, i read  about what Hoaxers had to say, i also came across other site "This is not It", and these fans believe that MJ is indeed dead and many bad stuff happened to him such as people from AEG not really caring about him as a person, but only about the money that he could generate for them. I could not take this site seriously either because they had at the time many testimonies and pics with MJ and such, but anyone here now that anyone in the Internet can write anything and say what they want to, and photoshop pictures. How can we check if what they say is truth? There is no way, so i can't take it seriously. And then there is the "media version" of the facts, which is what most of the world believes that MJ is dead. I think it is important to read all sides, so you can make up your own view.  At first, people would take the media version as the truth, but then you start to read these other theories and wonder "is it really possible?". I recently read a text by a professor here in Brazil about  Plato, and it fits so well with the concept of this whole hoax. Basically, it explains how we should never take for granted that we know stuff. We know nothing. We must start collecting knowledge so that we can see the facts without prejudice. It takes time, and effort, but in the end the real knowledge will reveal itself. And that's what's this hoax is all about, i think. But wait. I am not a believer. no, i am not, because that's my main point here: this hoax DOES NOT have any solid proof. There is none, there are just circumstantial evidence. I can't believe in anything unless you can give me _solid_ proof. And isn't this what the hoax is all about, again? Where is the solid proof? All i see is people collecting lots of clues and trying to figure out the whole picture. It is only a "IF", or a "MAYBE". Oh yeah, it is all so cool to be here reading all this stuff, watching all those youtube videos, i really had a lot of fun, but let's get real, there is no proof. The only thing that could lead me to believe more in the Hoax was the DAVE DAVE interview at Larry King, because that person sounds way too much like Michael, but is it him ? Well, It COULD BE, i don't know. There is no proof, again just a possibility! YES, i know Michael used to disguise himself, and i know of the Ghost video, but again it is just a possibility. There is no way for me to determine that it was him disguised as DAVE DAVE at Larry King! I would hate to believe in a lie, and that's why i need _solid_ proof -- i insist! Of course, i find it _very_ _positive_ that people keep searching for stuff, and we even get to learn about other things in the process. But where is the proof?

 Whoever is behind the hoax says that we must question the media, even the government. Look at those September 11th videos. Ok, so what if i tell the Puppet Master (if this hoax is real, i believe it is an ARG) that i will as well doubt him?  Who is he? Why is he giving me these clues?  It could be all made up! All manipulated so that we _believe_ that Michael is alive, when he is not, and then who could be doing this?  I don't know but.. if Michael is dead, and there is someone doing this, it is very evil, because you shouldn't mess with people's feelings. And what if it is some evil corporation trying to make hoaxers keep believing in Michael's death as a way of Marketing so that they can sell more CDs, DVDs, etc? It is very possible, people can do nasty things for money. It is an industry, and as there is a  "Elvis is not Dead" thing, so it would be very convenient to have a similar thing for MJ.

 That being said, i REFUSE to believe in the hoax or "This is not it", but i will still read what they say, because they might start to get serious and show us _real_ proof. And then people say "real proof would be only if Michael reappear", so then  be it! If he is alive and not going to be back, then the _artist_ Michael is dead, but the man is alive, so we must not interfere in his life, respect his privacy, let him be. However, if Michael is alive, and is doing an ARG with his fans, then i think it is time to tell the Puppet Master that i want _solid_ proof, i will not believe in your conjectural thing. I will admit that some are very funny though.  I will tell you guys that if this Hoax is true, i understand it as: a huge ARG as it reachs a big part of the world -- not restricted to a fanbase like NIN's -- and it includes MEDIA JAMMING -- because MJ gets to fool the media, and they believe in what he feeds them -- includes media and government awekening as in calling people's attention to the way media _can_ control the point of view of many people, the way they occult information or modify it, and how government can also manipulate things (Sept. 11th), the hoax is also about awekening about the powerful people ($$$) that can manipulate industries, banks, the media (a.k.a. Illuminati), and also about our planet, about how we need to care about it! Now, this is all cool and all, but i will question again, What if this thing is all made up? That curtain call site is like a parody of the memorial/funeral or something along this lines, is this guy from the media jamming even real? does he exist? If he does maybe he is taking part in this HOAX. See? So many questions and no _solid_ proof. I can't believe in all this, i just keep them in my mind as a "MAYBE".

 And now i want to talk about the media version. ok , so when i heard it at first it was a great shock, and i couldn't believe it.... I was sad and all, and then as time goes by we notice how the funeral really got so long to take place... and then there is always something about Michael Jackson on the news, it is like he is "active" again, but not really, because its all news about autopsies and such, but even then there are those news about Omer and many other stuff, that song leaked(?) "A place with no name", many people start to talk b.s., that guy with those tapes, and TMZ stuff ( i don't even like that site, but it is funny that they get all the news first). So, one starts to wonder why all this is happening, why the US justice seem so slow? Why it seems like they are not treating this case with all the attention and care that it deserves? Why isn't this doctor in jail already?  When MJ was charged back in 2003 wasn't he arrested? They sure were quick! They even raided his house! and..now?  Many things are wrong. So, the media version also has many problems. You ask "so, what do you believe?" As i said, i only believe in something that gives me solid proof, I am still searching for the truth, that's all.

 You know what else is odd. Isn't that Murray video kind of similar to that MJ's video talking about his innocence back in 1993?  So, it like how MJ maybe would be saying through the HOAX how we shouldn't say Murray must go to jail, because it is like how they treated MJ back in 1993, saying he was guilty, but they didn't care about his version. Most MJ fans don't care about what Murray would say, i think so. And that's also another lesson to be learned in this hoax thing. And if the hoax is not real, i think it will be positive in the way that people will be more careful about many things, about the media, the government, about judging others, about the planet, about music.

  I seem to never end my text, lol, but another thought i had about the ARG, is that these many things we are following: the Memorial, the funeral, even Haiti quake, the global warming effects, all these stuff that we can somehow link back to hoax, it could even be key points to MJ's concept album (IF he is alive, see? again a possibility!). i mean, look at that amazing NIN project, they got to build "fake" sites, leave pendrives with mp3s at live houses, distribute phones to fans, and many other things so that their fans can get into this "World" that NIN tried to create, and then with these concepts they made every song. Maybe something similar is happening here. It is like when we read all this stuff about the hoax, we are in another dimension where all these conjectural stuff MAGICALLY seem to be the truth, lol.  This is very wrong, if you look back at the Hoax teachings. It is a great temptation to start believing in all these conjectural theories(after all you feel better, right? it gives you hope that MJ is still alive), but you shouldn't let the HOAX be an Hoax inside another Hoax! Remember, it can be all fake, manipulated by someone else, with good, bad intentions? Who knows. I sure don't want anyone messing up with my beliefs. So, This is It, i want _real_ proof.  8-)

 Please, believers, don't hate me! Peace!   :oops: And thank you for taking the time to read everything.  :mrgreen:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 27, 2010, 10:53:13 PM
You are so articulate with your words! Well said on many levels. I am glad that you are willing to continue to view from a distance and take it all in. This is good. I hope you continue to share your insight and, yes, this has taught us many lessons along the way about judging others, taking care of our planet, thinking for ourselves, etc. I believe in time we will have our proof, one way or the other. Let's just hope it's a positive outcome. Blessings.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 27, 2010, 11:14:36 PM
Thanks for the post. It's very well thought out.

But I can assure you there may never be any solid proof of the hoax. Remember it was done so MJ could fake his death, so leaving solid proof would defeat his purpose. He left enough clues for those like him, who think out of the box, to beLIEve.  

Dave Dave at the burial, Mother Kate shopping at Target the day after his death, and the smokers lung condition of the body at the coroner's office is about at close to solid proof as we are going to get.

But stick around, who knows, maybe you too will start BeLIEving.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Good Lets Dance

  • Guest
Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 28, 2010, 01:53:25 AM
I am starting to BELIEVE we may be the Victims of some Global Black-Ops Mind Control Experiment, you know? (Like How Long can we keep them hooked with our BS?)
Thank You for your insightful observations.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Tina K.

Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 28, 2010, 02:50:26 AM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I just wanna ask ; where is the solid proof that Michael is really dead ?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Michael I love you allways.

*

hope

Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 28, 2010, 03:10:08 AM
Quote from: "Tina K."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I just wanna ask ; where is the solid proof that Michael is really dead ?
I was going to ask that too.  :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 28, 2010, 07:09:32 PM
Hi again, thank you for reading everyone.

Quote from: "foreverking"
Thanks for the post. It's very well thought out.

But I can assure you there may never be any solid proof of the hoax. Remember it was done so MJ could fake his death, so leaving solid proof would defeat his purpose. He left enough clues for those like him, who think out of the box, to beLIEve.  

   I understand that if the hoax is true, then they really can't show us really strong facts, or none would believe that he is dead. However if MJ is alive,  faking his death, and is not coming back -- In this scenario we have MJ supposedly tired of all of the media bashing, about all the lies, the people that think only about money, so he choses to end MJ -- the artist -- but MJ -- the man-- still lives. In this case, why would he keep leaving behind traces of his hoax? Fans will say "So that we can know that he is alive, and well". That MAY be possible, what about if it is not, and it is someone else trying to profit on his name? Toying with fans feelings/hopes? We have to think about all the possibilities not only the ones that are more "beautiful" or the ones more convenient to the hoax -- these are the ones that the Puppet Master wants you to believe, and you know him? What are his true intentions? The music industry is not a beautiful thing. Michael said that there were many bad things being done to great artists, I've also read on other artists talking about how their labels always try to take advantage of them in some way. Think about this. This is real.

  And if MJ is not dead, and is playing ARG with the fans, will you keep believing in all these conjectures that are only "MAYBES"? You will be forever trapped in the hoax, and it will be a hoax inside a hoax. Everyday people will create a new theory and since believers see clues everywhere, they will always fall for it. It is a vicious cycle. I strongly believe that you have to learn with the hoax (see my first post), and stand for the real thing -- you want to know the TRUTH, no lies, no gossips, no fake information!
 
Quote from: "Tina K."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I just wanna ask ; where is the solid proof that Michael is really dead ?

   I wrote all that, and you only can ask me this? What about all the stuff that i am questioning, you don't have anything to say? Sorry, if i sound rude -- not my intention at all. The believers say that MJ is not dead, because we couldn't see his body and that the name in the autopsy is not his. Well, as for the body not being shown, we can think about these possibilities:
   a) Maybe it was Michael's wish that people wouldn't see him like that;
   b) Maybe it could have been the family's wish;
   c) Just for the sake to create a mistery around Michael's death, so that people will make theories, etc, etc. you get the idea.

  Why can't you guys think about these, and just insist to say "Of course MJ is not dead, because we can't see his body!". So, you just assume that all the previous possibilities are not valid, because you are so DEEP INTO these theories, that you don't want to see other possibilities. You see what you want. Its like i said before -- it makes you feel better, because you have hope that MJ is alive somewhere. But have you ever thought about those other possibilities?

  As for his real name not being in the autopsies. Well, how can we know wich is his real name? He is a very famous person, he had all the reasons to keep his name a secret. It is very possible.

   And you know what's more? I will now use the hoax theories against the hoax itself now: assume that the doppelganger/double theory is true, now go back in time to the Memorial day. If they used the double in the casket, you would believe that MJ was really dead, right? You know you would, because until now most people didn't know there could be doubles that could look so identical to MJ. Isn't seeing the body a major clue? It just got destroyed by a hoax theory. See? That was kind of random, but you get the idea, right?

  BTW, i never said i believe he is dead or alive -- i said above that all the versions have problems be it the media, the hoax or "This is not it"! And that's why i said i will continue to find the truth. I am kind of playing the "devil's advocate" here, so that you open your eyes, and see that you may be so immersed, that you can't see the other possibilities anymore. Sorry if i am being a burden, i am doing this only for a good purpose. I would not spend lots of time on this if i didn't admire Michael.

  I may not be a believer, but i think i have an open mind; if you are able to show me real proofs, and not a lot of conjectural stuff, i will believe in you.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Delia

Re: My view on all this stuff (please, read)
April 29, 2010, 07:58:00 PM
See the contradiction! In order to believe you need real facts, demonstrations,etc. Then where is the adventure, selfimproving and courage ? In the *end* it will be sad for those who will find nothing about themselves, who will -again- know everything about nothing, like beeing in the desert, desolate.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "Delia"
See the contradiction! In order to believe you need real facts, demonstrations,etc. Then where is the adventure, selfimproving and courage ? In the *end* it will be sad for those who will find nothing about themselves, who will -again- know everything about nothing, like beeing in the desert, desolate.

 I think that people are already learning a lot since the begining. However, i think that keep believing in stuff that we can't prove, it is like an illusion. Isn't the purpose of the hoax that people question their sources, and go after the true knowledge? At least, i see this whole hoax like this. I wrote a better description in my first post.  ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

Delia

As long as questioning does not become a purpose in itself. Intuition and collaboration is essential.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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