question for paramedic or medical person

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mykidsmum

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question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 21, 2010, 11:43:49 PM
in light of the ambulance report that has been released, Murray never told them about the Propafol he had given MJ.  Parez Hilton said on his sight that someone in the family wondered if MJ could have been saved had they known that he was given this?  My question is...
Would knowing MJ was given Propofol have changed anything the paramedics did?  Would they have given him a different med to try to revive him or an antidote?  Would this knowledge have changed anything?  This is of course going by the ambulance report.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline voiceforthesilent

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 21, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
I remember Dr Gupta (guessing on name) on CNN say that the medics could have given Michael something to reverse the affects of Propafol. Sorry, I don't remember any more it's been so long now. But there is nothing that can be done if the person is already long gone by the time medics arrive. Remember though - we still haven't seen proof of a dead body.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

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Offline Hoaxornot

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 21, 2010, 11:51:19 PM
I do believe Murray injected him with that med that reverses but i guess it was too late
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CrazyBanana

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 12:09:09 AM
accorrding to the paramedics his pupils were dilated so I doubt it.... but im not a medical person though
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Offline jessicakthx

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 01:02:43 AM
As I understand it, there is no antidote for propofol.

Quote
Other than the passage of time, there is no specific antidote for propofol. Caution is required during administration to avoid deep anesthesia. Generally, a propofol loading dose of 40 mg to 50 mg is given with further smaller bolus loads (10 mg to 20 mg) to maintain sedation, with a typical total dose between 100 mg and 300 mg. Continuous infusions at 100 mg/h to 200 mg/h have also been used, but most investigators prefer the flexibility of the bolus approach

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2660799/)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lovemj4everandever

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 10:47:00 AM
This ambulance report is fake!  It would not be released to craploids prior to a "homicide trial!"  The report is clearly a fake when looking at the details!  The EKG was taken at 11:51 a.m. by the paramedics - but the paramedics did not even arrive until one-hour half later!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I don't understand why some people are on this site!  Everything we have seen since June 25th is not authentic and has easily been debunked as "fake."  If Michael were dead, all of this evidence would be under lock and key until after a trial.   :lol:  :lol:

The ambulance report also says that Michael was not breathing, no pulse, no heartbeat but in the hand-written part it clearly says "GOOD BREATH SOUNDS"!  Pay attention to the details and quit buying the craploid shit!  This is a HOAX site.  If you believe the craploids and that Michael is dead - why are you HERE?    We are here because we KNOW Michael is alive!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 10:48:59 AM by lovemj4everandever »

the arabian nights

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 10:48:17 AM
why is the syringe for sale - why didnt the police take it as evidence?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lovemj4everandever

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
why is the syringe for sale - why didnt the police take it as evidence?

Because this is a HOAX and it is getting more comical every single day!   :lol:  :lol:
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Offline LadyMedic

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 10:52:00 AM
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
This ambulance report is fake!  It would not be released to craploids prior to a "homicide trial!"  The report is clearly a fake when looking at the details!  The EKG was taken at 11:51 a.m. by the paramedics - but the paramedics did not even arrive until one-hour half later!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I don't understand why some people are on this site!  Everything we have seen since June 25th is not authentic and has easily been debunked as "fake."  If Michael were dead, all of this evidence would be under lock and key until after a trial.   :lol:  :lol:

The ambulance report also says that Michael was not breathing, no pulse, no heartbeat but in the hand-written part it clearly says "GOOD BREATH SOUNDS"!  Pay attention to the details and quit buying the craploid shit!  This is a HOAX site.  If you believe the craploids and that Michael is dead - why are you HERE?    We are here because we KNOW Michael is alive!

They have to set the time on the monitors. Very possible they hadn't set it. And they had good breath sounds POST INTUBATION.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lovemj4everandever

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 11:00:06 AM
They have to set the time on the monitors. Very possible they hadn't set it. And they had good breath sounds POST INTUBATION.[/quote]


If you believe the report, that is fine.  I don't buy for a minute that any evidence in this case would be leaked to the tabloids.  It would be under lock and key until after the trial.  Also, it is imperative that the time on the monitors be set to the appropriate times since these reports (when they are REAL) are used in LEGAL MEDICAL RECORD charts for LEGAL purposes!  A DEAD person cannot have GOOD BREATH SOUNDS PRE OR POST INTUBATION.  A DEAD person has NO BREATH SOUNDS!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jessicakthx

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
They have to set the time on the monitors. Very possible they hadn't set it. And they had good breath sounds POST INTUBATION.


If you believe the report, that is fine.  I don't buy for a minute that any evidence in this case would be leaked to the tabloids.  It would be under lock and key until after the trial.  Also, it is imperative that the time on the monitors be set to the appropriate times since these reports (when they are REAL) are used in LEGAL MEDICAL RECORD charts for LEGAL purposes!  A DEAD person cannot have GOOD BREATH SOUNDS PRE OR POST INTUBATION.  A DEAD person has NO BREATH SOUNDS!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


She doesn't say anything about whether she believes that it is really MJ's or not or that he is really dead or not. She's a paramedic, she knows what the forms look like and she understands what she's talking about. She's been incredibly helpful and she's always been completely reasonable.

I may be wrong in what I understood from her elsewhere but I'm pretty sure to say good lung sounds post-intubation really just means that the tube is where it belongs.



As for "We are here because we KNOW Michael is alive!" Actually a lot of us are here to find the TRUTH - no matter what the truth is. Do I believe that he's alive? Sure do. But if we're wrong somehow, I think most of us would like to think that we did something good, and furthered justice somehow.

Edited to add --- " The paramedics intubate Jackson, reporting “good lung sounds”. This is a simple check to make sure the tube has gone down the patient’s windpipe and not into the stomach."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lovemj4everandever

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
I know what intubation is and a DEAD person cannot have BREATH SOUNDS at all.  This report is completely bogus.  Again, like "key evidence" is going to be leaked to tabloids before a "homicide trial."   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jessicakthx

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
I know what intubation is and a DEAD person cannot have BREATH SOUNDS at all.  This report is completely bogus.  Again, like "key evidence" is going to be leaked to tabloids before a "homicide trial."   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I think I'll take the paramedic's words over yours.

Either way, I believe he's alive. So it's whatever.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lovemj4everandever

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 03:34:22 PM
Take whoever's word you want.  I was simply saying anyone, even a 5th grader knows that a DEAD man can't have breath sounds of any kind.  A DEAD man has NO BREATH SOUNDS, pre or post intubation!  Paramedic or not, I'm a very intelligent woman, and I don't NEED a paramedic to tell me that!   :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jessicakthx

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 03:43:10 PM
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
Take whoever's word you want.  I was simply saying anyone, even a 5th grader knows that a DEAD man can't have breath sounds of any kind.  A DEAD man has NO BREATH SOUNDS, pre or post intubation!  Paramedic or not, I'm a very intelligent woman, and I don't NEED a paramedic to tell me that!   :lol:  :lol:

There's plenty of documentation available to indicate that you DO get lung sounds after intubation, even with someone who is dead or barely alive.

If you want to live in a bubble of false knowledge, that's your problem.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alovesmichael

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 03:55:53 PM
Sorry but if I knew that Michael was 100% alive I wouldn't have to be on any website at all investigating his "death". I don't understand how so many can say they know for sure Michael is alive but I guess the understanding of being 100% sure is interpreted differently by different people...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lovemj4everandever

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: "jessicakthx"
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
Take whoever's word you want.  I was simply saying anyone, even a 5th grader knows that a DEAD man can't have breath sounds of any kind.  A DEAD man has NO BREATH SOUNDS, pre or post intubation!  Paramedic or not, I'm a very intelligent woman, and I don't NEED a paramedic to tell me that!   :lol:  :lol:

There's plenty of documentation available to indicate that you DO get lung sounds after intubation, even with someone who is dead or barely alive.

If you want to live in a bubble of false knowledge, that's your problem.

Apparently, we are just in different bubbles.  A dead man cannot have GOOD BREATH sounds!  And key evidence would not be released to tabloid sites prior to the trial.  

You live in YOUR bubble.  I will live in mine!   :evil:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline THE JACKSONOLOGIST

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 04:16:36 PM
Be nice you guys. No reason to argue over this. We all have different opinions about this...lets respect each other.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LadyMedic

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 08:19:43 PM
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
Quote from: "ladymedic"
They have to set the time on the monitors. Very possible they hadn't set it. And they had good breath sounds POST INTUBATION.


If you believe the report, that is fine.  I don't buy for a minute that any evidence in this case would be leaked to the tabloids.  It would be under lock and key until after the trial.  Also, it is imperative that the time on the monitors be set to the appropriate times since these reports (when they are REAL) are used in LEGAL MEDICAL RECORD charts for LEGAL purposes!  A DEAD person cannot have GOOD BREATH SOUNDS PRE OR POST INTUBATION.  A DEAD person has NO BREATH SOUNDS!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No, it's not imperative that they are correct. They go by what the paramedics write. For example, when I do a 12-lead on a patient, it will ALWAYS print out that the patient is a 60 year old male unless I manually change it. Just because it says it's a 60 year old male doesn't mean a court would look at that as opposed to my documentation that states it's a 72 year old female.

Now for the breath sounds. Yes, you 100% will have breath sounds when the patient is intubated. Even when they're not and you're simply ventilating them. When you squeeze the bag (of the BVM), you will get lung sounds. It is STANDARD that you ALWAYS listen to both lungs and the belly to confirm tube placement. If you hear no lung sounds but hear belly sounds, it's in the belly. If you hear belly sounds and lung sounds, it's probably in the belly. If you hear no belly sounds and no lung sounds on the left, it's probably right mainstem and you should back the tube out a little. If you hear no belly sounds and bilateral lung sounds, the tube is in the lungs. There are other ways that we use to check. Some places still used EDDs (esophageal detector device), most places use colorimetrics, and every service I'm aware of uses end tidal (also known as ETCO2 or capnography), equal chest rise, and visualizing the vocal cords when you pass the tube. You can also see condensation in the tube. (There may be one or two other was, but these are some common/big ones)
So yes, they DO have lung sounds. Every time you ventilate you can hear lung sounds. In fact, if they are in respiratory arrest or I have RSIed or sedated them, and they couldn't breath because they're so locked up, I can give them a breathing treatment while ventilating them. And I can listen to their tight wheezes (where I would document, even when the patient is NOT breathing, that their lung sounds are wheezes), and then listen for improvement (where I would document any changes).

**Edited to fix the quote that was messed up. It didn't quote correctly.

Edit once more, hopefully this will clarify -
By breath sounds, we mean LUNG SOUNDS. Not the physiological state of breathing, but the there is air going in and out of the lungs, and that the lungs are CLEAR (or wheezes, rales, rhonchi, etc.). The words "breath" and "lung" are used interchangeably.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline paula-c

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 09:17:51 PM
lovemj4everandever,  agree, well said :lol:

mykidsmum

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 09:28:09 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
Quote from: "ladymedic"
They have to set the time on the monitors. Very possible they hadn't set it. And they had good breath sounds POST INTUBATION.


If you believe the report, that is fine.  I don't buy for a minute that any evidence in this case would be leaked to the tabloids.  It would be under lock and key until after the trial.  Also, it is imperative that the time on the monitors be set to the appropriate times since these reports (when they are REAL) are used in LEGAL MEDICAL RECORD charts for LEGAL purposes!  A DEAD person cannot have GOOD BREATH SOUNDS PRE OR POST INTUBATION.  A DEAD person has NO BREATH SOUNDS!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No, it's not imperative that they are correct. They go by what the paramedics write. For example, when I do a 12-lead on a patient, it will ALWAYS print out that the patient is a 60 year old male unless I manually change it. Just because it says it's a 60 year old male doesn't mean a court would look at that as opposed to my documentation that states it's a 72 year old female.

Now for the breath sounds. Yes, you 100% will have breath sounds when the patient is intubated. Even when they're not and you're simply ventilating them. When you squeeze the bag (of the BVM), you will get lung sounds. It is STANDARD that you ALWAYS listen to both lungs and the belly to confirm tube placement. If you hear no lung sounds but hear belly sounds, it's in the belly. If you hear belly sounds and lung sounds, it's probably in the belly. If you hear no belly sounds and no lung sounds on the left, it's probably right mainstem and you should back the tube out a little. If you hear no belly sounds and bilateral lung sounds, the tube is in the lungs. There are other ways that we use to check. Some places still used EDDs (esophageal detector device), most places use colorimetrics, and every service I'm aware of uses end tidal (also known as ETCO2 or capnography), equal chest rise, and visualizing the vocal cords when you pass the tube. You can also see condensation in the tube. (There may be one or two other was, but these are some common/big ones)
So yes, they DO have lung sounds. Every time you ventilate you can hear lung sounds. In fact, if they are in respiratory arrest or I have RSIed or sedated them, and they couldn't breath because they're so locked up, I can give them a breathing treatment while ventilating them. And I can listen to their tight wheezes (where I would document, even when the patient is NOT breathing, that their lung sounds are wheezes), and then listen for improvement (where I would document any changes).

**Edited to fix the quote that was messed up. It didn't quote correctly.

Edit once more, hopefully this will clarify -
By breath sounds, we mean LUNG SOUNDS. Not the physiological state of breathing, but the there is air going in and out of the lungs, and that the lungs are CLEAR (or wheezes, rales, rhonchi, etc.). The words "breath" and "lung" are used interchangeably.
I always love to hear what you have to say ladymedic!  In light of some of the new reports that came out about how Alvaraz saw MJ upon entering his room, eyes and mouth open, would this happen if he was put to sleep by the propofol?  Just to let everyone know, a while back I posted a topic about my cousin who works with the coroners office doing autopsy's(not in LA) and I posted her theory of what happened based on what we had at the time, if anyone remembers, everything being said now,is exactly how she called it! months ago..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mjkate

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 09:49:42 PM
mykidsmom i would like to read your topic could you post the title of it? thanks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jessicakthx

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
Quote from: "ladymedic"
They have to set the time on the monitors. Very possible they hadn't set it. And they had good breath sounds POST INTUBATION.


If you believe the report, that is fine.  I don't buy for a minute that any evidence in this case would be leaked to the tabloids.  It would be under lock and key until after the trial.  Also, it is imperative that the time on the monitors be set to the appropriate times since these reports (when they are REAL) are used in LEGAL MEDICAL RECORD charts for LEGAL purposes!  A DEAD person cannot have GOOD BREATH SOUNDS PRE OR POST INTUBATION.  A DEAD person has NO BREATH SOUNDS!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No, it's not imperative that they are correct. They go by what the paramedics write. For example, when I do a 12-lead on a patient, it will ALWAYS print out that the patient is a 60 year old male unless I manually change it. Just because it says it's a 60 year old male doesn't mean a court would look at that as opposed to my documentation that states it's a 72 year old female.

Now for the breath sounds. Yes, you 100% will have breath sounds when the patient is intubated. Even when they're not and you're simply ventilating them. When you squeeze the bag (of the BVM), you will get lung sounds. It is STANDARD that you ALWAYS listen to both lungs and the belly to confirm tube placement. If you hear no lung sounds but hear belly sounds, it's in the belly. If you hear belly sounds and lung sounds, it's probably in the belly. If you hear no belly sounds and no lung sounds on the left, it's probably right mainstem and you should back the tube out a little. If you hear no belly sounds and bilateral lung sounds, the tube is in the lungs. There are other ways that we use to check. Some places still used EDDs (esophageal detector device), most places use colorimetrics, and every service I'm aware of uses end tidal (also known as ETCO2 or capnography), equal chest rise, and visualizing the vocal cords when you pass the tube. You can also see condensation in the tube. (There may be one or two other was, but these are some common/big ones)
So yes, they DO have lung sounds. Every time you ventilate you can hear lung sounds. In fact, if they are in respiratory arrest or I have RSIed or sedated them, and they couldn't breath because they're so locked up, I can give them a breathing treatment while ventilating them. And I can listen to their tight wheezes (where I would document, even when the patient is NOT breathing, that their lung sounds are wheezes), and then listen for improvement (where I would document any changes).

**Edited to fix the quote that was messed up. It didn't quote correctly.

Edit once more, hopefully this will clarify -
By breath sounds, we mean LUNG SOUNDS. Not the physiological state of breathing, but the there is air going in and out of the lungs, and that the lungs are CLEAR (or wheezes, rales, rhonchi, etc.). The words "breath" and "lung" are used interchangeably.

Thank you LadyMedic. The lung sounds thing is all I was trying to point out, I wasn't trying to argue. But if someone is going to say I KNOW THIS THIS IS 100% TRUE AND I SAY IT IS SO IT'S TRUE, how can you blame people with knowledge for arguing the case? Neither LadyMedic nor myself said omg omg Michael is dead. I wasn't even trying to argue the validity of this report seeing as how it's incredibly easy to get a blank version and a guide on how to write it out.




I wasn't stating my opinion. I was stating fact. (In respect to the lung sounds.)

So yes if you want to live in your bubble of ONLY accepting things that fit in with the hoax, go for it. But don't try to tell others that it is FACT when it is NOT. Even a google search could have told you you were wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 10:00:33 PM
Quote from: "mjkate"
mykidsmom i would like to read your topic could you post the title of it? thanks!
let me know if this link works.  This is her oppinion back when we believed that MJ arrived alive at the hospital.http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2156
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LOVEYOUMORE

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 22, 2010, 10:08:05 PM
Quote from: "lovemj4everandever"
This ambulance report is fake!  It would not be released to craploids prior to a "homicide trial!"  The report is clearly a fake when looking at the details!  The EKG was taken at 11:51 a.m. by the paramedics - but the paramedics did not even arrive until one-hour half later!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I don't understand why some people are on this site!  Everything we have seen since June 25th is not authentic and has easily been debunked as "fake."  If Michael were dead, all of this evidence would be under lock and key until after a trial.   :lol:  :lol:

The ambulance report also says that Michael was not breathing, no pulse, no heartbeat but in the hand-written part it clearly says "GOOD BREATH SOUNDS"!  Pay attention to the details and quit buying the craploid shit!  This is a HOAX site.  If you believe the craploids and that Michael is dead - why are you HERE?    We are here because we KNOW Michael is alive!How are they trying to auction off the needle that Murry used to administer the leathal injection , isn;t that evidence , don't the cops have that , it;s ....I heard someone had it and is trying to sell it ....?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mjkate

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Re: question for paramedic or medical person

  • on: March 23, 2010, 07:51:49 PM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "mjkate"
mykidsmom i would like to read your topic could you post the title of it? thanks!
let me know if this link works.  This is her oppinion back when we believed that MJ arrived alive at the hospital.http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2156

THANKS!!I appreciate it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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