Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

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Offline stevedelve

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Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 08:18:58 AM
For me it doesn't make sense that Michael Jackson would have hoaxed his own death. How powerful was he in the last few years of his life really? When i look at the "This is it" video he seems much better than the years after the 2004 allegations. He actually seemed pretty well in shape in compare. But i personally think he was really broken and a lot of his power was based on the medication he took regulary. I don't think Michael Jackson was in the position to fake his own death and fool the whole world. The greedy people around him had a close eye on him and put a lot of effort into seeing him dead. In humble opinion, i think they were successfull.

The video of the WMA 2006 shows how low in energy he was just three years earlier:
[youtube:2lbuvucj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14i4Lmv1i4g&feature=related[/youtube:2lbuvucj]
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Offline lovesquad

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 08:44:03 AM
I dont think he was low energy - It wasnt supposed to be a real performance - the part with we are the world gave me goosebumps - amazing energy from the crowd - WOW... surely he is the KING
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this1crazygirl

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 08:54:47 AM
he didn't look low in energy he was looking great  :)
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Offline ER911

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:04:29 AM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
For me it doesn't make sense that Michael Jackson would have hoaxed his own death. How powerful was he in the last few years of his life really? When i look at the "This is it" video he seems much better than the years after the 2004 allegations. He actually seemed pretty well in shape in compare. But i personally think he was really broken and a lot of his power was based on the medication he took regulary. I don't think Michael Jackson was in the position to fake his own death and fool the whole world. The greedy people around him had a close eye on him and put a lot of effort into seeing him dead. In humble opinion, i think they were successfull.

The video of the WMA 2006 shows how low in energy he was just three years earlier:
[youtube:22qb4ait]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14i4Lmv1i4g&feature=related[/youtube:22qb4ait]


Always remember that we only know what the media & others tell us. I personally don't think we can go by the TII due to editing & the unknown amount of rehearsal time.

I believe that given the right avenues anyone can attempt to hoax their death & surely people with less money have done so.

Also, do we really know how much medication MJ took on a regular basis or if he even took meds on a regular basis? I don't believe the autopsy revealed that information.

The truth is coming soon enough and then and only then will we know IMO.
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:10:29 AM
Quote from: "this1crazygirl"
he didn't look low in energy he was looking great  :)

The WMA was supposed to be his big comeback after allegation from 2003-05. He doesn't look like he had much energy there at all. Compare this with a video from 2002:
[youtube:1f6vyv4x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-zIagOeTo[/youtube:1f6vyv4x]
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Offline lotus_sutra

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:21:36 AM
Why are you here deciding to post now if you don't believe he is dead????  Have you been placed here as a 'plant' to spread the seed of 'murder theory'?  Seems alot of ppl have been hyping up this theory lately!
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: "ER911"
Always remember that we only know what the media & others tell us. I personally don't think we can go by the TII due to editing & the unknown amount of rehearsal time.

I believe that given the right avenues anyone can attempt to hoax their death & surely people with less money have done so.

Also, do we really know how much medication MJ took on a regular basis or if he even took meds on a regular basis? I don't believe the autopsy revealed that information.

The truth is coming soon enough and then and only then will we know IMO.

If we can't trust anything that the media or anyone tells us, how do we know the truth? In the end, there is nothing we can realy trust, not even our own memory sometimes. The more time passes by, the nicer seems the holiday from last year. Reality is a tricky thing. Sometimes hard to define. That's a whole topic on its own. But with Michael Jackson's death, i think the more we know about him, about his life, about his feelings, about his fears, the better the picture that we are then able to draw of him. Sometimes to hear the truth about MJ might even hurt. He was just a human being like you and me, and i think his health was not good when he died (i mean if he died).
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:33:46 AM
Quote from: "lotus_sutra"
Why are you here  to post now if you don't believe he is dead????  Have you been placed here as a 'plant' to spread the seed of 'murder theory'?  Seems alot of ppl have been hyping up this theory lately!

What do you mean? I thought this thread is for the Murder Theory. Sorry if i'm wrong here. Do you discuss the possibility of Michael Jackson being dead in this forum at all? I'm interested in the hoax as well, but i just don't think it's very likely. I'm not here to offend anyone. And i'm certainly not planted by anyone.  :?
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Offline ER911

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:42:29 AM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "ER911"
Always remember that we only know what the media & others tell us. I personally don't think we can go by the TII due to editing & the unknown amount of rehearsal time.

I believe that given the right avenues anyone can attempt to hoax their death & surely people with less money have done so.

Also, do we really know how much medication MJ took on a regular basis or if he even took meds on a regular basis? I don't believe the autopsy revealed that information.

The truth is coming soon enough and then and only then will we know IMO.

If we can't trust anything that the media or anyone tells us, how do we know the truth? In the end, there is nothing we can realy trust, not even our own memory sometimes. The more time passes by, the nicer seems the holiday from last year. Reality is a tricky thing. Sometimes hard to define. That's a whole topic on its own. But with Michael Jackson's death, i think the more we know about him, about his life, about his feelings, about his fears, the better the picture that we are then able to draw of him. Sometimes to hear the truth about MJ might even hurt. He was just a human being like you and me, and i think his health was not good when he died (i mean if he died).

I am a big believer in gut instinct. Now of course if one doesn't have that ability they'll follow blindly. I'ts the same gut instinct that tells alot of folks here that MJ was a genuine good man altho many if any, have ever met him.

It's the same gut instinct that leads the best investigators to the truth. They find the truth by producing facts that cannot be disputed.

Many times people are convicted & yet we find out they were innocent because not all of the evidence is always presented to them & yes in part because they aren't experts.

Still many are prosecuted successfully and without question are guilty of their crime.

Although this situation presents itself with many twists & turns, I believe that once the court proceeding begin, we will start to see the truth prevail & we will know it's the truth because liars cannot keep the truth straight because they are human.
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Offline lotus_sutra

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:47:16 AM
No your not wrong, it is to discuss the murder theory, my ? is why would you come to a hoax site when your convinced he was murdered?  All are welcome here, I meant no offense...it just seems there has been more ppl that originally thought 'hoax' and now have switched gears to 'murder'...it feels like it is being planted.
Lol, I'll just sit back & shut my mouth now   :P
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Offline virgo75

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: "lotus_sutra"
No your not wrong, it is to discuss the murder theory, my ? is why would you come to a hoax site when your convinced he was murdered?  All are welcome here, I meant no offense...it just seems there has been more ppl that originally thought 'hoax' and now have switched gears to 'murder'...it feels like it is being planted.
Lol, I'll just sit back & shut my mouth now   :P


I think that many(if not most) of us on here have had some doubts at one time or another as to whether Michael faked his death or was murdered.

If we knew 100% there would be no need for a "Hoax Investigators" site at all.   ;)

Plus, as good investigators, it helps to remain open minded enough to search out ALL possible clues.
Not just the ones that lead to what we want(ie - him faking his death and being alive and well).
Even ones that may lead to him having been murdered.

I think that the big problem is that either one is equally possible.
And the clues could lead to a murder cover up or a death hoax cover up....
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Offline Tina K.

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 10:10:32 AM
The video of the WMA 2006 shows how low in energy he was just three years earlier:

 Are you serius ? :?  He looks GREAT here ! But he's shy and humble as allways when accepting an award.
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Offline Christiana

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: "virgo75"
Quote from: "lotus_sutra"
No your not wrong, it is to discuss the murder theory, my ? is why would you come to a hoax site when your convinced he was murdered?  All are welcome here, I meant no offense...it just seems there has been more ppl that originally thought 'hoax' and now have switched gears to 'murder'...it feels like it is being planted.
Lol, I'll just sit back & shut my mouth now   :P


I think that many(if not most) of us on here have had some doubts at one time or another as to whether Michael faked his death or was murdered.

If we knew 100% there would be no need for a "Hoax Investigators" site at all.   ;)

Plus, as good investigators, it helps to remain open minded enough to search out ALL possible clues.
Not just the ones that lead to what we want(ie - him faking his death and being alive and well).
Even ones that may lead to him having been murdered.

I think that the big problem is that either one is equally possible.
And the clues could lead to a murder cover up or a death hoax cover up....

Very well said, and I totally agree with you! I was more convinced of the hoax in the beginning. But I have more doubts now. Doesn't make me a plant. It makes me a logical, rational and pragmatic human being who doesn't believe things just because they support what I want to believe. I still tend to believe more in the hoax, but I do have my doubts. So I question everything. And I only seek the TRUTH, not just clues that support a hoax. If more people did that, we'd probably get a lot more done around here.
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this1crazygirl

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 04:54:08 PM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "this1crazygirl"
he didn't look low in energy he was looking great  :)

The WMA was supposed to be his big comeback after allegation from 2003-05. He doesn't look like he had much energy there at all. Compare this with a video from 2002:
[youtube:2jaov5w8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-zIagOeTo[/youtube:2jaov5w8]

that video was great  :P
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the arabian nights

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 05:40:54 PM
japan mike in 2007 was rocking - no low energy there

[youtube:1hg42bs6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPbdSTUJ8o[/youtube:1hg42bs6]
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the arabian nights

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 05:50:20 PM
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=FTQgWW5MOFs&feature=related[/YouTube]

mj 2008
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Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 06:03:35 PM
I saw this thread and pondered whether to contribute since it is the first one to really approach the scary-creepy-taboo subject of ...murder. I am glad that Admin has allowed this thread to open and continue. Let’s face it, unless I was  in the room and a witness then I have no idea of what actually took place on June 25th. Gut feelings, guesses, speculation, hunches  and a mountain of clues lead many to believe 100% that MJ faked his death. I don’t think that way so I have always had to  consider the possibility that something else happened that day.  The glass is half full for some and half empty for others.

 When I first heard that SONY made the deal with the Jackson Estate, my stomach twisted into knots and my head started hurting. It was at that moment when my 50/50 (hoax/murder) belief shifted more toward 25/75. Maybe the optimist within me clings to a glimmer of hope with the 25%. The SONY deal just screamed of bad people getting what they wanted out of MJ. Why did I shift? I have never relied on BAM dates. I have merely looked for evidence … one way or the  other to believe that MJ was alive or dead. Fact: there are people…influential people…greedy people… who wanted MJ dead. They are far more powerful than we are. This isn’t a visit into Illuminati. There are other threads for that discussion. This is more about how rich and powerful people operate. They are very stingy and don’t like to share their wealth and power.  Fact: MJ set the standard and raised the bar for entertainers. Imagine being a lazy,  mediocre, handsome/pretty and talented singer. That person must measure up to the standard set by MJ. It must indeed piss off that entertainer. He/she admires MJ yet loathes him at the same time. MJ reached heights that no other person had reached and this is especially true for a man of color. I won’t harp on the racial component since we all already know the deal when it comes to race relations.  Bottom line: There were insiders of the music industry and outsiders who looked at MJ as a threat to their status quo.

MJ didn’t play the game and go “hollywood”. He did his own thing…  his own way. That scared the crap out of a lot of people. More than money, MJ had influence. Money comes and goes but influence is firmly planted. As wise as many of us believe that MJ is we must also recognize that he was human and had his own vulnerabilities like we all do. I have friends and family members that I interact with . They accept or reject me for who I am. What about MJ? Frankly…that man never knew who he could trust. He was the meal ticket for so many people. If he succeeded then they succeeded. They clung to him like flies on dog doo doo.  

For better or worse we live in a world that values youth and beauty. We  toss aside people who age or change physically.    It is what it is. MJ aged and faced stiff competition from various flavor-of-the-month entertainers. Yeah yeah yeah…he was the King of Pop. What happened to the King had a conscious  and maybe subconscious effect on how his fans viewed him.   Many people love MJ …the nostalgic tales and pictures of  MJ wearing gold pants are  quite evident of that love toward him. Check any  MJ  fan forum to see for yourself. What about MJ today..here and now…the middle aged man. That had to mess with his head in ways that we can only imagine. He was an image and a … persona. He  was created by himself and savvy publicists. In his younger days, his physical image was revered and celebrated  yet mocked as he grew older.

Surprise   surprise …strong people have vulnerabilities. MJ lived his life in the public eye and managed his persona  masterfully. There had to come a point even for the #1 celebrity on the planet to face his own weaknesses and soft spots. That is when I believe that the vultures circled and closed in on him. Who were these people and how did they gain access to him. The question may never be answered. Combine MJs vulnerable state of mind with the vultures and you have a recipe for murder.

MJ , like Elvis, will live on for generations. Do not sit around waiting for a comeback though because it ain’t gonna happen. Erase the BAM dates from your calendar…please. Many people will benefit …$$$$$...from both men for years to come. Many of those people never gave a damn about  either man. The MJ “brand” is golden just like the pants.

 Back to the SONY record deal. They plan to put out one album of unreleased music as a teaser. Smart move on their part. It is just enough to get fans all excited and willing to part with their money. It sort of reminds me of the release of the This Is It cd…except that was an old song. Damn…who leaked that ?

I honestly believe that Latoya and Janet  removed the new music from MJs house. You go girls! SONY has a mix of partially completed tracks with vocals here and music there. They will grab some producer and engineer to make something of that mix. MJ fans will buy it because they are hungry for “new” MJ music. That is what they will do for the well anticipated November 2010 album. Now after that be prepared for a slew of compilations and mix tapes. You have “Off The Wall” already? So what they say. Get ready to buy  “Off The Wall 2014 to commemorate the 35th anniversary…lol.

Neverland. Do I really have to describe what will become of that place?  Ok…for those who may be  in doubt. Graceland will be considered a nameless truck stop compared to what will become of Neverland. The masses will flock to that place to catch a glimpse of where the KOP lived.  Money money and more money for the elusive Jackson Estate. John  B and John M manage the estate. It surely must be a damn  shame to Jackson family members to shift from getting allowance checks from a blood family member …MJ…to now be getting allowance checks from complete strangers. I dread the day when the “Estate” decides to cut them off and stop sending those much needed checks.

IMO…MJ may be alive (25%) or he may be dead (75%). Either way there are some people with blood on their hands for how they treated the boy…and later….the man. I pity them because payback is a bitch.  BTW – I am not a plant. I am just an old school MJ fan (1969 and beyond) who thinks too damn much.  :lol:
Peace....
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Offline voiceforthesilent

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "ER911"
Always remember that we only know what the media & others tell us. I personally don't think we can go by the TII due to editing & the unknown amount of rehearsal time.

I believe that given the right avenues anyone can attempt to hoax their death & surely people with less money have done so.

Also, do we really know how much medication MJ took on a regular basis or if he even took meds on a regular basis? I don't believe the autopsy revealed that information.

The truth is coming soon enough and then and only then will we know IMO.

If we can't trust anything that the media or anyone tells us, how do we know the truth? In the end, there is nothing we can realy trust, not even our own memory sometimes. The more time passes by, the nicer seems the holiday from last year. Reality is a tricky thing. Sometimes hard to define. That's a whole topic on its own. But with Michael Jackson's death, i think the more we know about him, about his life, about his feelings, about his fears, the better the picture that we are then able to draw of him. Sometimes to hear the truth about MJ might even hurt. He was just a human being like you and me, and i think his health was not good when he died (i mean if he died).

Can I ask in sincerity why you are here - it doesn't appear that you believe Michael is alive and it seems like you are trying to put doubt into the minds of others about Michael's character. Sure Michael was a human being, but that doesn't mean we should believe what the media tells us about him. Thank you for being polite.
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I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

Offline voiceforthesilent

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
japan mike in 2007 was rocking - no low energy there

[youtube:24k7s965]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPbdSTUJ8o[/youtube:24k7s965]

I agree - he looked great.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

Offline virgo75

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 06:31:35 PM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
japan mike in 2007 was rocking - no low energy there

[youtube:3cz2062v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPbdSTUJ8o[/youtube:3cz2062v]


I looooved seeing video of him in Japan!
I especially love it when he's reading with his glasses on.

I'm such a sucker for MJ in glasses.   :ugeek:


Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"
Can I ask in sincerity why you are here - it doesn't appear that you believe Michael is alive and it seems like you are trying to put doubt into the minds of others about Michael's character. Sure Michael was a human being, but that doesn't mean we should believe what the media tells us about him. Thank you for being polite.

I can't answer for them, but it's possible they're looking for more solid proof that they're wrong(and he's alive) than that they're right(and he's dead)?

I know I've been following all of this since at least July 09, and didn't start posting until I really had doubts.
At the time, I desperately wanted to see something, ANYTHING that would prove to me that he's really alive.   :(

And I found enough to hang on.   :)
Even though I still have doubts(I'm about 50/50 right now), I haven't seen discernable 100% proof that MJ is alive  -or-  dead.  So I keep popping in here when I have free time.
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 09:54:44 PM
Quote from: "ER911"
I am a big believer in gut instinct. Now of course if one doesn't have that ability they'll follow blindly. I'ts the same gut instinct that tells alot of folks here that MJ was a genuine good man altho many if any, have ever met him.

It's the same gut instinct that leads the best investigators to the truth. They find the truth by producing facts that cannot be disputed.

Many times people are convicted & yet we find out they were innocent because not all of the evidence is always presented to them & yes in part because they aren't experts.

Still many are prosecuted successfully and without question are guilty of their crime.

Although this situation presents itself with many twists & turns, I believe that once the court proceeding begin, we will start to see the truth prevail & we will know it's the truth because liars cannot keep the truth straight because they are human.

I follow my instincts, too. But when looking at the facts in front of me, sometimes i need to correct my gut feeling with what my logical mind tells me. They are both there to be used. And both can be misunderstood with our limited human perception.
I agree though that the truth always prevails.
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Offline msteetee34

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 10:09:38 PM
Quote from: "this1crazygirl"
he didn't look low in energy he was looking great  :)

I agree I think MJ looked good too and he was in good spirits.  Me personally I think MJ was very smart and he knew how to get things the way he wanted them.  I don't see MJ as a person who would be easy to manipulate.  I think he was very much in control of things and he knows how to put things out there that he wants people in the public to see.  That's why he always was a man of mystery.  He knows how to play the game. I've heard people say that if MJ doesn't like something that you have to say about his life he would cut that person off completely.  I think if MJ felt threatened by someone he would get rid of them in his camp.  I think people need to give him more credit.  I also feel that if someone was going to murder him why now?  It's not like he has been on the top of the charts for the last 10 years.  If someone was going to murder him I would think they would have done it years ago when he was on top of his game or when he went on a rampage against Sony.  That's just my opinion.
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 11:02:57 PM
Quote from: "Tina K."
The video of the WMA 2006 shows how low in energy he was just three years earlier:

 Are you serius ? :?  He looks GREAT here ! But he's shy and humble as allways when accepting an award.

As i sait before, this was supposed to be his big comeback. He was supposed to sing Thriller that night, which he couldn't do. So the management got someone else in and presented the whole replacement as a tribute to MJ. He was defenitly not very well at the time.

Here a video of the "Tribute":
[youtube:2v84x361]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCQIPNWI9-g[/youtube:2v84x361]
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
japan mike in 2007 was rocking - no low energy there

[youtube:2na01kxs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPbdSTUJ8o[/youtube:2na01kxs]

He looks good here. Just as he does at the WMA 2006. But you just don't see him doing any of the usual amazing dance moves. He is only walking around. . .
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 11:09:45 PM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
[youtube:3516w6fp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQgWW5MOFs[/youtube:3516w6fp]

mj 2008

I don't see him dancing there either.
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Offline loveratheart4mj

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 11:12:30 PM
Posts like this is what depress me. Whats the purpose of coming here and saying thing like this. Just to bring us BELIEVERS all down???????? Im kinda on the thinkin of if you dont have something POSITIVE to say then why say it at all. Go ahead kick us in the stomach. Here black our eyes while your at it. Why you wanna hurt others who are praying he is alive so badly.    :|  Dang go away. Its hard enough facing each and every day with that thread of doubt that lingers.....

Sorry guys i couldnt keep my mouth shut any longer. I get tired of those who try to bring us down. Its like go find your own room to hand with all the negative folks. If im wrong then please forgive. Got that off my chest  :roll:
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 18, 2010, 11:52:53 PM
Quote from: "GirlSaturday"
[..]
When I first heard that SONY made the deal with the Jackson Estate, my stomach twisted into knots and my head started hurting. It was at that moment when my 50/50 (hoax/murder) belief shifted more toward 25/75. Maybe the optimist within me clings to a glimmer of hope with the 25%. The SONY deal just screamed of bad people getting what they wanted out of MJ. Why did I shift? I have never relied on BAM dates. I have merely looked for evidence … one way or the  other to believe that MJ was alive or dead. Fact: there are people…influential people…greedy people… who wanted MJ dead. They are far more powerful than we are. This isn’t a visit into Illuminati. There are other threads for that discussion. This is more about how rich and powerful people operate. They are very stingy and don’t like to share their wealth and power.  Fact: MJ set the standard and raised the bar for entertainers. Imagine being a lazy,  mediocre, handsome/pretty and talented singer. That person must measure up to the standard set by MJ. It must indeed piss off that entertainer. He/she admires MJ yet loathes him at the same time. MJ reached heights that no other person had reached and this is especially true for a man of color. I won’t harp on the racial component since we all already know the deal when it comes to race relations.  Bottom line: There were insiders of the music industry and outsiders who looked at MJ as a threat to their status quo.
[..]

Your post was a very nice read and gave me some new ideas. Thanks for that. The ATV music catalog is now worth more than a billion. And Sony was very much interested in getting its hands on it.  The allegations that Michael Jackson had to face in 1993 and 2003 put him into a possition where he had to sell part of his catalog to Sony to get out of his debt. There are connections between Sony and the people that were the driving power behind the child allegation charges. This is just a hint in case someone wants to look deeper into this possibility. Michael Jackson was surrounded by people who slowly destroyed him to get into his money. He didn't know who to trust anymore, not even some members of his own family. He knew exactly what was going on, but he was not in the position to fight the power of the music industry and its bosses.

It just doesn't fit anymore for me. The more i know the more i doubt that Michael was still in charge of his own estate. I'm not here to spread disinformation. But the possibility of MJ's death is part of the hoax theory. It needs to be talked about as well, even if it's just in a thread somewere on the bottom of the page, and even if it's just for a healthy argument ;)
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 19, 2010, 12:25:37 AM
Quote from: "loveratheart4mj"
Posts like this is what depress me. Whats the purpose of coming here and saying thing like this. Just to bring us BELIEVERS all down???????? Im kinda on the thinkin of if you dont have something POSITIVE to say then why say it at all. Go ahead kick us in the stomach. Here black our eyes while your at it. Why you wanna hurt others who are praying he is alive so badly.    :|  Dang go away. Its hard enough facing each and every day with that thread of doubt that lingers.....

Sorry guys i couldnt keep my mouth shut any longer. I get tired of those who try to bring us down. Its like go find your own room to han with all the negative folks. If im wrong then please forgive. Got that off my chest  :roll:

I'm sorry, this was not my intention!!! I respect that he was and still is like a close friend or like family to many many people. I think i have already said enough. If someone would like to have a conversation about this topic, feel free to join me at the mjfiles.com forum. We don't have to hate each other just because we have a different opinion on things :)
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Offline MJonmind

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 19, 2010, 01:15:03 AM
I guess the reason most people here find posts like yours about Michael being murdered fair but somewhat undesireable is that everywhere BUT here on this hoax forum and a few other places, that's all they talk about--how Michael is dead, foul play, murder charges, MJ's debt, poor health, and how he's forever victimized. This place is a breath of fresh air. Like the Jackson's tweeted, "Your eyes don't lie." We think we see a mind-bending hoax taking place rather than the official story, and they confirm it's true.
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Offline Christiana

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 19, 2010, 01:30:22 AM
Quote from: "loveratheart4mj"
Posts like this is what depress me. Whats the purpose of coming here and saying thing like this. Just to bring us BELIEVERS all down???????? Im kinda on the thinkin of if you dont have something POSITIVE to say then why say it at all. Go ahead kick us in the stomach. Here black our eyes while your at it. Why you wanna hurt others who are praying he is alive so badly.    :|  Dang go away. Its hard enough facing each and every day with that thread of doubt that lingers.....

Sorry guys i couldnt keep my mouth shut any longer. I get tired of those who try to bring us down. Its like go find your own room to hand with all the negative folks. If im wrong then please forgive. Got that off my chest  :roll:

I totally and sincerely understand what you are saying, and I mean this with absolutely no disrespect...but in defense of the OP, they did post this in the Murder Theory forum, which is the appropriate place to put such a thread. It wasn't meant to offend or hurt any or to bring anyone down. You do have the choice not to read the threads in this particular forum. The same way non-hoax believers have the option to stay out of hoax threads in other communities.

The OP was not trying to bring you down...and they did post "in their own room," because this forum "The Murder Theory" is the room (for all intents and purposes) for the discussion of the possibility of MJ's murder and death.
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Offline jessicakthx

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 19, 2010, 02:30:19 AM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
japan mike in 2007 was rocking - no low energy there

[youtube:yx3w3v9u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPbdSTUJ8o[/youtube:yx3w3v9u]

He looks good here. Just as he does at the WMA 2006. But you just don't see him doing any of the usual amazing dance moves. He is only walking around. . .


That makes it sound like you expect to see him dance every time he makes an appearance somewhere. Just because he isn't dancing, does not necessarily mean he's weak or has low energy.
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Offline jessicakthx

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 19, 2010, 02:33:11 AM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "Tina K."
The video of the WMA 2006 shows how low in energy he was just three years earlier:

 Are you serius ? :?  He looks GREAT here ! But he's shy and humble as allways when accepting an award.

As i sait before, this was supposed to be his big comeback. He was supposed to sing Thriller that night, which he couldn't do. So the management got someone else in and presented the whole replacement as a tribute to MJ. He was defenitly not very well at the time.

Here a video of the "Tribute":
[youtube:2lnm2sd5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCQIPNWI9-g[/youtube:2lnm2sd5]

That's the first time I've ever heard that MJ pulled out and that's why Chris Brown did the tribute. Cite your information sources please.
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the arabian nights

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 19, 2010, 02:10:39 PM
but that does not mean he was incapable there is a world of difference.

he looked very strong when he attended the awards - waving

he did not look frail

so what are you saying?
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Offline stevedelve

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 20, 2010, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: "jessicakthx"

That's the first time I've ever heard that MJ pulled out and that's why Chris Brown did the tribute. Cite your information sources please.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6155968.stm
http://fametastic.co.uk/archive/2006111 ... ic-awards/
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this1crazygirl

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 20, 2010, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "this1crazygirl"
he didn't look low in energy he was looking great  :)

The WMA was supposed to be his big comeback after allegation from 2003-05. He doesn't look like he had much energy there at all. Compare this with a video from 2002:
[youtube:2yjubn78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-zIagOeTo[/youtube:2yjubn78]

 :D this is my new favorite MJ clip!! :lol:  :lol:  8-) I love when he's singing out of breathe LOL sounds sexy  ;)
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mykidsmum

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 21, 2010, 01:17:36 AM
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "Tina K."
The video of the WMA 2006 shows how low in energy he was just three years earlier:

 Are you serius ? :?  He looks GREAT here ! But he's shy and humble as allways when accepting an award.

As i sait before, this was supposed to be his big comeback. He was supposed to sing Thriller that night, which he couldn't do. So the management got someone else in and presented the whole replacement as a tribute to MJ. He was defenitly not very well at the time.

Here a video of the "Tribute":
[youtube:6qd7b8un]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCQIPNWI9-g[/youtube:6qd7b8un]
I agree with you totally.  MJ was a broken man after the trial.  Everyone can say what they want about This is It, but the fact remains, there is no footage on the entire DVD of him rehearsing an entire rehearsal of even ONE song from start to finish.  By the way, I never saw this footage of the "tribute" to MJ and I will tell you, it made me cry.  It made me cry because for once in my life, I saw MJ old enough to sit on the sidelines while someone else does his dance...something he should be doing while alive.  I also cried because this guy did a fantastic job and I hope MJ was proud of him.  I loved it!  I was a little girl when MJ first came out with Thriller.
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the arabian nights

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 21, 2010, 09:53:28 AM
to be honest i thought chris brown was a bit rubbish
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Offline mjj29081958

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: March 21, 2010, 10:59:09 AM
Quote from: "virgo75"
Quote from: "lotus_sutra"
No your not wrong, it is to discuss the murder theory, my ? is why would you come to a hoax site when your convinced he was murdered?  All are welcome here, I meant no offense...it just seems there has been more ppl that originally thought 'hoax' and now have switched gears to 'murder'...it feels like it is being planted.
Lol, I'll just sit back & shut my mouth now   :P


I think that many(if not most) of us on here have had some doubts at one time or another as to whether Michael faked his death or was murdered.

If we knew 100% there would be no need for a "Hoax Investigators  " site at all.   ;)

Plus, as good investigators, it helps to remain open minded enough to search out ALL possible clues.
Not just the ones that lead to what we want(ie - him faking his death and being alive and well).
Even ones that may lead to him having been murdered.

I think that the big problem is that either one is equally possible.
And the clues could lead to a murder cover up or a death hoax cover up....

You said it all!
 
And for those who are asking "why people keep coming to a hoax site if blah, blah..." there you go, the post above sume it up very well IMO...

 Being "selectively blind" (if does exists such a word  :? ) to some issues is fooling yourselves. That does not help you, nor this "investigation".

I'm not saying it is/ is not a hoax, but that some are denying thing that are just right in front of your eyes.

Also to me, (some of) the arguments used to defend some issues regarding Michael's "death", are less solid & more desperated every time. That makes this whole thing loose credibility.

JMHO. Peace. :D
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Offline simplyme

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 20, 2010, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"
Quote from: "stevedelve"
Quote from: "ER911"
Always remember that we only know what the media & others tell us. I personally don't think we can go by the TII due to editing & the unknown amount of rehearsal time.

I believe that given the right avenues anyone can attempt to hoax their death & surely people with less money have done so.

Also, do we really know how much medication MJ took on a regular basis or if he even took meds on a regular basis? I don't believe the autopsy revealed that information.

The truth is coming soon enough and then and only then will we know IMO.

If we can't trust anything that the media or anyone tells us, how do we know the truth? In the end, there is nothing we can realy trust, not even our own memory sometimes. The more time passes by, the nicer seems the holiday from last year. Reality is a tricky thing. Sometimes hard to define. That's a whole topic on its own. But with Michael Jackson's death, i think the more we know about him, about his life, about his feelings, about his fears, the better the picture that we are then able to draw of him. Sometimes to hear the truth about MJ might even hurt. He was just a human being like you and me, and i think his health was not good when he died (i mean if he died).

Can I ask in sincerity why you are here - it doesn't appear that you believe Michael is alive and it seems like you are trying to put doubt into the minds of others about Michael's character. Sure Michael was a human being, but that doesn't mean we should believe what the media tells us about him. Thank you for being polite.

This is the murder theory thread so now I need to ask a question.  Why are you
asking why they are here?
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Offline simplyme

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 20, 2010, 09:27:55 PM
Well, Michael didn't perform.  I don't know if he was supposed to or not.  It doesn't matter.  He looked great.
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Offline MJonmind

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 21, 2010, 02:31:30 AM
I disagree that Sony and Aeg thought MJ was worth more dead than alive. I believe they and Michael knew that he was worth more dead supposedly to the public and fans, and still alive generating more creative genious for future selling. Hoaxing his death as well as being creative behind the scenes thru film and innovation "never doing the same twice" was what Michael clearly has spoken wanted to do, his dream. They make their money, he fulfills his dream. Will.I.Am said the whole music industry needed a jolt, and only the maker of Thriller could put it back in. This Is It, thriller II (TII) something "never done before" where we are all part of Thriller and MJ coming back from the dead (a form of 3D). Sony and AEG know they could literally dominate the planet if this happens according to MJ's dream. "It's all a part of the plan".

Beyonce beautifully said the truth, she wouldn't be performing if it wasn't for Michael, and neither would the whole musical industry be what they are today if it wasn't for him. Black artists have literally dominated music genre today. When you saw that crowd cheer as he received his award and the incredible words from the Guiness rep, "Michael is the most famous person on the planet, and sold more albums that any other artist, 750 mill and 104 mill just for Thriller." That crowd wouldn't stop cheering and people in the industry know Michael is the goose that lays golden eggs. Why would all those same people turn around and together conspire to knock him off and cover gleefully for bloody murder, like Kenny Ortega and Randy Phillips, Travis Payne, Frank Dileo, and down the list for hundreds who must have known way more than us.  They and the family definately look fake sad, smirkingly happy. And I left out thousands of hoax proofs like Liberian girl connotations of Michael being behind the camera in all this.

You mentioned that it seems Michael doesn't have the energy for dancing anymore. Just this second I remembered a Utube clip of Michael in the van surrounded by his usual crowd, and one camera guy said, Michael can you still dance. And this stuck in my brain, Michael said, "Why wouldn't I still be able to?" Like "Dah! The MC at 02 said when he hugged MJ that he felt ripped. I loved that! Investigations here have shown strongly that he was likely MJ and not a double. As for someone dancing Thriller in his place, you think it was because MJ was unable. I think rather it honored him. Another clip Michael is surrounded again and someone is doing his dance on the street and MJ is killing himself laughing saying how he loves how he was doing his dance and really getting into it with even crotch grabbing and the police clears him away.

MJ had plainly intended on only touring so long so many years and backing away from that to other "projects", even before allegations, and  repeated his dreams to Geraldo in 2007. Yes I'm a diehard beLIEver, not just gut feelings but based on all that I have come to know about MJ. He is a consumate prankster, like Lou Ferrenger(?) saying he would put a dummy in an abulance as decoy to send the Paps in the opposite direction. Elvis wanted out of his situation to live peacefully, don't know whether he's alive or not and don't really care. But Michael is different, yes he wants peace and quiet, however he has a greater desire and that is that his life would be "the greatest show on earth", and he felt God had a special calling on his life that he needed to carry out for the children of the planet (and more).  

Today as I was walking the dog and natually listening to my man's music I was feeling pain and thinking how can I get out of this--I'm like a moth coming to the flame, powerless to get away. My heart is so desiring more of him and I dread the pain of withdrawal if 2011, 2012 and nothing. I'm thinking I'm such a fool, wasting all my time on this. Then I happen upon this thread where hoax or not is being battled out. I totally understand both lines of reasoning. MJ is such a genius in giving just enough evidence to be 99% convinced but it's not completely provable/could be explained away possibly, and the media and people in charge of maintaining the hoax like family and friends are doing such a good job, that we question our own sanity for believing otherwise.

The media have managed to put such a loathing for anyone considering any news story to involve a conspiracy or an unofficial version that conflicts with the main one. Even yesterday when I mentioned about the twin towers being imploded to my son, he said, "Oh mum you've got to stop with all those conspiracy theories". It's our brains that are literally being attacked here. Up is really down, and yes is really no. As I was walking I was thinking about whether Michael would really want this, us believers just going crazy with doubt, crazy with desire for him, and the irony is when we still had him here I wasn't even interested in him. But now we can't have him and we want him so badly...  We only have each other and the internet world of information, a hope and pain. Well there's my thoughts...sometimes I need encouragement myself, so I understand what some of you are going through. Some days I'm so thankful for the postings of other beLIEvers to bring me up from the dumps, so I hope this helps someone. :)
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Offline billiejean17

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 21, 2010, 03:32:30 AM
It's all about the MONEY... it always is...

Give it time the truth will out one day...
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Forever Michael

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 21, 2010, 05:13:40 AM
i think mike looked amazing in the above clips - in the 2002, 2006 and 2007 and  he moved in 2009 - this is it

i wish i could move a 1/100th the way he did - you cant take your eyes off him.
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Offline teine21

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 21, 2010, 05:20:43 AM
I think he looked great in those clips. He was probably emotionally & mentally exhausted from the trial. But he seemed truly happy accepting that award. He's just very humble, we know this already. Usually, at most awards shows when someone is presented with such a big award, newer artists honor them by singing their songs for them. That's what I think happened at the WMA. It may have been hyped to be his big comeback but that could have been media hype or a rumor. He was probably just there to accept the award & be honored like he should be. As for the performance clip I thought he did great considering he hadn't performed like that for a little while. He always has it, it's natural for him. I think he is still able to dance & sing & that he looks healthy even in 2008. I think he just wanted to do other things like someone else mentioned. He had 40+ years in the music business, he was ready to venture in other directions now. & maybe this whole hoax was being planned for a while, & he was trying to fool people into thinking he was ill, frail, etc. So that he could be out of the spotlight & behind the scenes. Who knows. All I know is there's no concrete proof either way, dead or alive. Just a whole lot of inconsistencies, conflicting stories, & TMZ.  :lol:  :roll: I hope & pray he wasn't murdered & I know it's hard to think about but everything should be thought about at some point. We feel that he's alive & we see things that make it seem like a hoax so that's what we're believing. But anything is possible, even the things we don't want to believe. All we can do is keep watching, wait for the trial, investigate what we can, keep the faith & hope the truth comes out  :mrgreen:
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Offline loyalfan

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 21, 2010, 05:34:34 AM
sorry but just the mention of this kind of thing has me crying like a baby...i wont ever believe he is dead..........surely the fact that there are so very many questions to get answers to.....must make a murder seem impossible.......if we did not have all these unanswered things to look into....there would be a clearer road to accepting a possible murder...........when i have stopped being upset at the mere suggestion of murder i will.....................hopefully be more in a reasonable frame of mind....sorry.....love from diane....xxxx
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this1crazygirl

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 21, 2010, 09:17:45 AM
by MJonmind » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:31 am
"...I was thinking about whether Michael would really want this, us believers just going crazy with doubt, crazy with desire for him, and the irony is when we still had him here I wasn't even interested in him..."

I was always interested in MJ, I was upset there was no video to butterflies and that every time he tried to have a release of some kind the media found something unsettling to report about him, I was always into MJ videos and concert clips, and often wondered about his whereabouts before the TII announcements... 8-)
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Offline QuirkyDiana

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 10:53:06 AM
Ok, for a start this is the Murder Theory thread. That is what gets discussed here. There is at least an equal probability that MJ is dead. Those that do not even want to contemplate this, i fear for you, really.

Put it this way, if i can hypothesize, if mj hoaxed then you have nothing to worry about. If MJ is dead and you had your head firmly in the hoax sand all this time.......what will you think then?

It amazes me that so many think nothing bad has happened here. Is the hoax merely a comfort zone? My prediction is there is going to be nasty shock soon. Just my prediction. Let's see what happens.
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Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 11:41:17 AM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
to be honest i thought chris brown was a bit rubbish

Lol! me too!  :lol: Not to be mean or anything but noone does it like Michael, no matter what age he is. Btw, on many other fansites they say Michael was never meant to perform at the VMA in 2006. He thought he was just accepting an award but the media (who else  :roll: ) had spread news about Michael being due to perform, so many fans that were there believed so too. I really do believe in some kind of conspiracy where things were arranged in a way to make Michael look bad/weird/weak, you don't have to be a believer to see that. Remember the MTV award show with Britney Spears? The bastards clearly wanted to humiliate him! Where was/is the respect that this amazing man fully deserves?
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Offline RK

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 12:02:47 PM
I've been to Steve Delve's site  [  they seem to have their own agenda and it's to do with their opinion on MJ's sexuality] so I'm not gonna listen to his opinions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline suspicious mind

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 12:50:46 PM
Hoax: To trick into believing or accepting as genuine something false and often preposterous. So even if it's murder it's still a hoax, because it's played up as Wacho Jacko"s(I'm so sorry) bizarre behavior doing him in!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Offline QuirkyDiana

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 01:33:08 PM
We know what the definition of hoax is. Do you know the definition of Murder?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

the arabian nights

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 01:54:59 PM
the definition would be in the statute books
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline QuirkyDiana

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 04:23:50 PM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
the definition would be in the statute books

I was just being a little sarcastic  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

the arabian nights

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 05:50:27 PM
oops sorry

but if mike was worried about being  poisoned, was he talking about food or from his doctor?

i still dont understand this - he could have escaped ... okay not talking about the hoax, but before .. and still be with us
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline cassi

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: April 28, 2010, 08:48:56 PM
hi everyone, well this is the murder theory thread, so we should lighten up on the person that posted. although none of us know the truth, here is what i feel. i think michael is very much alive, but peoples hearts grew cold towards him. i think more than anything else he just wants to be loved. none of us know what he had to endure, to go from the most loved entertainer ever to one of the most disliked,  (by some, not us fans ;) )  must have been hard on him. by faking his death, he has the peoples love back, and he can still do all the creative things that he wants to do. i think he left us clues because he knew we would look for them. with all he has been through i believe he has the balls to come back, and face the world, just to say "see, you cant believe everything you read, and hear", then he will give us the THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH, because thats what he do, ya feel me?  well im just venting, but i hope im right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline peshtishor

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: July 07, 2010, 11:44:52 AM
girlsaturday, i agree 100%.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Michael Jackson\'s message is simple...."Avoid being judgemental and LEARN to think for yourself....Dont "ADOPT" opinions....FORM your own based on reasoning and available evidence. Thi should aply to EVERY DAMN SITUATION THAT WE FACE. The sooner we make this change, the better.

Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Michael Jackson didn't fake his death!?

  • on: July 07, 2010, 12:52:19 PM
I knew I'd seen him say it himself!

5:04 - very loud and clear!

Seems like everyone knew Michael was performing that night except from Michael himself, go figure  :roll: . "No, it's just a rumour", now did anyone miss that? The question is: who spread the rumour about Michael being supposed to perform that night, perhaps also knowing he wouldn't?!
Michael looks good and he seems to be in charge here, chosing who he wants to talk to... I do believe the trial affected Michael deeply how could it not? But I really think it's unfair to expect him to dance and sing everytime he makes an appearance (even before the trial), do we expect that from any other artist? The trial might also have made Michael even more careful when it came to how to behave when doing public appearances. Add aging to that as well...

I already think getting older is very difficult and I haven't even reached my 30's yet, so imagine being Michael or Prince or Madonna... We need to cut people some slack.

[youtube:3s00z2p0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4zS54ezG9Q[/youtube:3s00z2p0]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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