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I agree with bec 100%. Thanks for posting.

I also want to say that I do understand why you guys do not view Joe in the best light due to what he put Michael and the whole family through. However, I think bec is not trying to say what Joe did was okay and we should embrace that. I think what she is trying to say (and please correct me if I'm wrong, bec) is that no matter what, we should learn to respect him and his family and one another first and foremost. We should try to be more understanding of each other's life stories. This is what L.O.V.E. is all about. Choosing to be respectful is more powerful than any number of bad terms you throw at Joe or anyone in his family. Besides, we don't know them so why be so judgmental? If Michael can forgive him, why can't you?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Awareness + Awakening = Higher Consciousness

*

nynyro

Quote from: "ER911"
I don't necessarily agree with everything that was stated in the original posting. My opinion is based solely on MIchaels' own words in his interviews. He is the one that stated he was beaten & he is the one who described in details the use of oil & ironing cords to willfully & purposely inflict the greatest amount of pain.

Michael is the one whom stated the beatings were inflicted for the most part to force him to perform & perform perfectly.

While it is true that Michael also respected his father moreso in the latter years, it is equally true that Michael feared his father to the point of  needing to vomit in his adult years. These statements were all made by Michael himself.

Respect & fear sadly can go hand in hand as I myself  was raised in a very similar manner. Yes, it is true that ones' up bringing can make us who we are.

BUT, each individual is IMO born with their own personalities & we as individuals can take our life experiences from our past & learn from them or we can be caught in the web of our past which haunts our future forever.

Michael, as we all know was indeed caught in his past,..a past with no childhood, a past with the fear of his father. This lead to his increased love for the children of the world that were left behind with no love & no hope.

I believe that MIchael was born a kind soul & he would have passed on his love irregardless of his father, but because of his fathers' beliefs, Michael lost his childhood forever.

I want to say that it was Joes' wife that first discovered the kids talents & not Joe, just for the record. Joe did not have to inflict pain in order to get the results he wanted.

Joe IMO is not the one responsible for getting them out of poverty. Michael is the one responsible for that soley due to his ability to sing & dance.  Yes, Joe is the one whom pushed those kids to success, but has it ever occurred to anyone that Michael may have ended up doing it on his own?

Michael is the one whom left the group & Michael is the one responsible for his long term success & not Joe.

Insofar as respect for the family, it is my opinion we need only respect whom we choose. It is Michaels' family & if he chose to forgive them, then it is his choice. It doesn't necessarily have to be ours.

We can love & respect any individual, but it doesn't mean we have to respect that individuals family. It does mean however that we respect that individuals opinions of his family & not judge that individuals because of their family.

I don't & never will condone any person that beats their child into submission. It doesn't mean that at some point in our lives we can't understand why they did it, but it doesn't mean we should accept the behavior.

Many individuals live in poverty & are happier than those that are rich, & many of those individuals do not resort to a life of crime.

I agree with you that what Joe did wasn't necessary and that although he played a role in Michael's success, he wasn't responsible for his success.   Michael took charge of his own career, separate from the Jacksons.  I just think that some people grew up in homes where we were beaten as a form of discipline, so it's seen as almost normal.  People who have experienced something similar to what Joe did, aren't immediately outraged by it because it's not uncommon. I'm not defending him in any way, but I've seen much worse than Joe and that's sad.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I would agree with this post, but it's quite bold to say that pretty much no one here respects the family. I'm sorry that many African American families still live that way. I'm sorry, it's life. There are other options out there besides music. We get up each day and make the best of what we have. At least they have a roof over their head. Except this post is about the Jackson family. I highly respect them, they have made a complete 360 as to what their lives could have been like. As for Joe, i too based my opinions off of what Michael has said, but he's forgiven him. I do not hate him, i don't even know the man. Without him and without Katherine, he or his brothers wouldn't even be in existence, much less have a music career. Stay strong, keep the love.
Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 12:14:37 PM by OneLove
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Amen!!! I counldn't have said it better myself. Thank you so much for sharing your concerns with us. I hope people read this and really understand the struggle and how The Jacksons over came that struggle!! It goes deeper than the music.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You can change the world
(I can\'t do it by myself)
You can touch the sky
(Gonna take somebody\'s help)
You\'re the chosen one
(I\'m gonna need some kind of sign)
If we all cry at the same time tonight

I dont judge...  but respect is earnt.  

You are assuming you know me, and other members...  and our background, our childhoods and our homes.

I understand Michael more than you will ever know because of my own curcumstances...   so i dont need to be told who to respect and why.

I understand what you have written above..  but i also understand Michael when he says he was beaten and ridiculed, and how he was the familys breadwinner for all his life.

Like i said.. respect is earnt.  Its not a right.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

mjj4ever777

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  • BE LOVE..LIVE LOVE! I LOVE you all, so very much!
Well said Bec!
I've noticed lately that there has been alot of "bashing" going on here and it is really disturbing to me, when Michael's message is all about LOVE, not HATE. When people insult and bash, Joe or Randy or Jermaine or Dr. Murray, or any of them, they are doing the exact opposite of what Michael is asking us all to do! We can't "judge" them for their shortcomings on "hearsay", we don't know the truth and we won't until we hear it from Michael himself. Bashing Michael's family members is just wrong IMO.

There is so much more that I could say, but I don't want to go off on a tangent...i just wish that more people would concentrate on the LOVE we should be spreading to let Michael know that we get his message. The people who insist on bashing the family is getting us nowhere fast. ALL families have issues, no one is perfect, but what they do or say is their business, not ours!

I'm here to do my part and that part includes trying to be a better person, by being respectful and loving to everyone I meet. I really try everyday to do some good deeds and I take more time each day to try and make a positive change in the way I live and the way I love. It is much easier and more rewarding to love and find the positives in your own daily life then it is to dwell on the negativity and judge the "shortcomings" of others. So instead of bashing the Jackson family, take that valuable time and do something loving for yourself, your family or even a complete stranger and see how good it feels!
Please, lets stop all the bashing and start spreading the LOVE again. Thanks for listening!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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This is all happening because the truth isnt being told, and people are getting fustrated.

This is the reason.

If everyone just spoke up and told the truth, all this anger and fustration would vanish.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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THANK YOU!!!!

I'm so tired of people bashing Michael's family.
We don't know them personally and so we don't know their entire relationship and dynamic.
Only what is in the media.
And isn't that what Michael wanted us to avoid - judging him and others based on how they're portrayed in the media?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

all4loveandbelieve

I total agree, we should respect  the Jackson family.  Especially Katherine. The only thing I do not agree I don't respect and which I am strongly against is   Joe Jackson beating Michael when he was a child. Michael was afraid of him. No parent has the right to beat up a child, especially because he doesn't perform to Joe's expectations.  every child needs discipline, I know I am a mother. I remember MJ doing an interview with Oprah at his Neverland Ranch. He said something about his father and he said "Oh no. I am sorry Joe, please do not get angry".. Oprah opened her eyes wide open.. Meaning wow you are afraid of your father..  Even as an adult he was afraid of his father, that is not normal.In your opinion is that ok for a child to be afraid of a parent? Would you be able to live like that?? I know I can't. Also when Mj died on June 25 2009 they interviewed Joe and he was promoting his new business. I am writing this, to make you understand why people do not respect  Joe Jackson, and the family.  I am a humanitarian, I respect everyone, I tried to understand why some people do what they do, and let it be.. My motto is LIVE AND LET LIVE...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am.
Michael Jackson

*

Tina K.

Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
I dont judge...  but respect is earnt.  

You are assuming you know me, and other members...  and our background, our childhoods and our homes.

I understand Michael more than you will ever know because of my own curcumstances...   so i dont need to be told who to respect and why.

I understand what you have written above..  but i also understand Michael when he says he was beaten and ridiculed, and how he was the familys breadwinner for all his life.

Like i said.. respect is earnt.  Its not a right.
I agree 100% with you.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Michael I love you allways.

Wow... my god that was a powerful post!
Thank you for that!


I totally understand. I hate seeing people on here bashing Michael's family... most noticably Joe, Jermaine and LaToya.

For whatever reason people may not like them.. valid or not, they were still Michael's family and he still loved them unconditionally. Who are we to bring that into question?

If we love Michael we have to love him for everything that he is and everyone who he loves. That includes his family. And if we cant do that then....

what hope is there left?

This world needs more love in it!

L.O.V.E

(P.s. I love that feeling when you randomly smile at strangers  :D  )
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Call the man
Who deals in love beyond repair
He can heal the world
Of hearts in need of care
Shine a light ahead
When the next step is unclear
Call the man
He\'s needed here"

 - I never can say goodbye

DOITNOWMJ

  • Guest
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I total agree, we should respect  the Jackson family.  Especially Katherine. The only thing I do not agree I don't respect and which I am strongly against is   Joe Jackson beating Michael when he was a child. Michael was afraid of him. No parent has the right to beat up a child, especially because he doesn't perform to Joe's expectations.  every child needs discipline, I know I am a mother. I remember MJ doing an interview with Oprah at his Neverland Ranch. He said something about his father and he said "Oh no. I am sorry Joe, please do not get angry".. Oprah opened her eyes wide open.. Meaning wow you are afraid of your father..  Even as an adult he was afraid of his father, that is not normal.In your opinion is that ok for a child to be afraid of a parent? Would you be able to live like that?? I know I can't. Also when Mj died on June 25 2009 they interviewed Joe and he was promoting his new business. I am writing this, to make you understand why people do not respect  Joe Jackson, and the family.  I am a humanitarian, I respect everyone, I tried to understand why some people do what they do, and let it be.. My motto is LIVE AND LET LIVE...


ALRIGHT NOW!
 No parent have the right to spank a child?
 well i guess no wonder there is so many kids killing their parents while they sleep and so many of them are juvenile and so many of them doing drug and are muderers starting age 4
so many of them are on the path to hell. cause they ain't got no good parents to discipline them. the next thing you know my tax dollars goes to pay for the juvenile center to straighten up your kids.
because you are not good enough of a mother and don't have enough guts to straight your kids yourself.
 ain't no body willl tell me not to spank my child my mother spanked me and thank God it help me stay on the right path, does that make her a bad mother michael was shooting shoes at his father it's not like he was an angel he never been and never will be an angel,
he always stood up to his father they both were beating the hell out of each other cause mj was always fighting back,
 so don't sit there acting like MJ is JESUS cause he ain't even Jesus would have told him to respect his father and one of the reason why he went through hell it's because of the disrespect that he showed his dad.
 the bible says HONOR TY FATHER AND THOU SHALL BE BLESSED AND LIVE A LONG LIFE.
MJ knew that he father loves him and no matter what he did his father would still be there to support him.
FOR THOSE WHO REFUSE TO GIVE CREDIT TO HIS FATHER FOR HIM BECOMING THE GREATEST ENTERTAINER IN THE WORLD.
Without his father he would be NOTHING even with the RAW talent that GOD HAS GIVEN HIM his father's Job was to POLISH THAT TALENT and remove the so called fake sensisivity that MJ used to portray himself in the public eyes in order to gain sympathy.

do not think for a minute that MJ is an ANGEL as much as i love him MJ is extremely calculative, and manipulative , you do not last so long in HOLLYWWOD WITHOUT HAVING GAME.
i AM NOT GOING TO ACT LIKE MJ IS A TOTAL SAINT CAUSE HE SAID IT HIMSELF. and i quote:
" I AM NOT A DEMON BUT I AM NOT AN ANGEL EITHER "
 
AS FAR AS SPANKING IS CONCERNED, THANK GOD FOR IT.
Cause because of it, i ain't doing none of what i am not supposed to do.
JOE JACKSON DID WHAT ANY FATHER WHO LOVES HIS CHIOLD IS SUPPOSED TO DO AND BECAUSE OF THAT NON OF THEM JACKSON KIDS WENT TO THE PENN.
JOE JACKSON IS NOT PERFECT EVERY FATHER MAKES MISTAKE.
IF YOU THINK FOR A MINUTES THAT EVERY WORD THAT CAME OUT OF MICHAEL'S MOUTH IS THE TRUTH THEN I GOT NEWS FOR YOU.
 MJ LIES THROUGH HIS TEETH.
AND IF YOU THINK THAT HE NEVER DISCIPLINED HIS CHILDREN, THEN THINK AGAIN.
 AND I STAND BY EVERYTHING I SAID IN THE POST THAT WAS DELETED.
 SOME FANS HERE DISGUST ME THEY ALWAYS WANT TO SEPARATE MICHAEL FROM HIS FAMILY BECAUSE HIS FAMILY REMINDS THEM THAT HE IS BLACK PERIOD.
 THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WAY JOE RAISED HIS KIDS THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RACISM.
 THIS IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.
DON'T DENY IT , FACE THE MUSIC.
Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 03:40:47 PM by DOITNOWMJ
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DOITNOWMJ

  • Guest
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
I dont judge...  but respect is earnt.  

You are assuming you know me, and other members...  and our background, our childhoods and our homes.

I understand Michael more than you will ever know because of my own curcumstances...   so i dont need to be told who to respect and why.

I understand what you have written above..  but i also understand Michael when he says he was beaten and ridiculed, and how he was the familys breadwinner for all his life.

Like i said.. respect is earnt.  Its not a right.
THEN WHEN MICHAEL DECIDES TO COME OUT SURROUNDED BY HIS FAMILY CAUSE THIS IS HOW IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY IF HE DECIDES TO COME OUT
 KEEP YOU ASS HOME CAUSE ALL YOU WILL SEE IS MICHAEL SURROUNDED BY HIS LOVING FAMILY.
 THEY ARE HIS FLESH AND BLOOD PERIOD ! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM KEEP YOUR HATRED TO YOURSELF, AND YOUR DISRESPECT TOO.
 DON'T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THORATS.
AND KEEP YOUR HYPOCRISY HOME AND DON'T COME ANYWHERE AROUND MJ CAUSE YOU AIN'T NO FAN OF HIS CAUSE HE MAY HAVE BASHED HIS DAD BUT HE RECOGNIZED THAT HE MADE A HUGHES MISTAKE AND SAID THAT HE AND HIS FATHER ARE FINE AND THEY LOVE EACH OTHER AND HE LOVES HIS FAMILY.
 WHEN MJ WAS IN LOS ANGELES AT THE FAMILY REUNION GUESS WHAT YOU WEREN'T THERE,
 BUT HIS WHOLE FAMILY, MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHERS AND SISTER, NEPHEWS AND NIECES, WHERE THERE INCLUDING HIS KIDS.
AND YOU WERE NO WHERE TO BE FOUND NONE OF YOU HATING ON HIS FAMILY WERE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND, IT WAS A FAMILY AFFAIR ONLY,
THAT SHOWS YOU THAT  MJ WILL NEVER CHOOSE ANYONE ELSE OVER HIS FAMILY.
NO MATTER WHAT FAMILY BANDS BUT DON'T BREAK.
Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 03:33:26 PM by DOITNOWMJ
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*

Tina K.

Quote from: "DOITNOWMJ"
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"
I total agree, we should respect  the Jackson family.  Especially Katherine. The only thing I do not agree I don't respect and which I am strongly against is   Joe Jackson beating Michael when he was a child. Michael was afraid of him. No parent has the right to beat up a child, especially because he doesn't perform to Joe's expectations.  every child needs discipline, I know I am a mother. I remember MJ doing an interview with Oprah at his Neverland Ranch. He said something about his father and he said "Oh no. I am sorry Joe, please do not get angry".. Oprah opened her eyes wide open.. Meaning wow you are afraid of your father..  Even as an adult he was afraid of his father, that is not normal.In your opinion is that ok for a child to be afraid of a parent? Would you be able to live like that?? I know I can't. Also when Mj died on June 25 2009 they interviewed Joe and he was promoting his new business. I am writing this, to make you understand why people do not respect  Joe Jackson, and the family.  I am a humanitarian, I respect everyone, I tried to understand why some people do what they do, and let it be.. My motto is LIVE AND LET LIVE...


ALRIGHT NOW!
 No parent have the right to spank a child?
 well i guess no wonder there is so many kids killing their parents while they sleep and so many of them are juvenmile and so many of them doing drug and are muderer at age 4
so many of them are on the path to hell.
 ain't no body willl tell me not to spank my child my mother spanked me and thank God it help me stay on the right path, i ain't doing none of what i am not supposed to do.
JOE JACKSON DID WHAT ANY FATHER WHO LOVES HIS CHIOLD IS SUPPOSED TO DO AND BECAUSE OF THAT NON OF THEM JACKSON KIDS WENT TO THE PENN.
 AND I STAND BY EVERYTHING I SAID IN THE POST THAT WAS DELETED.
 SOME FANS HERE DISGUST ME THEY ALWAYS WANT TO SEPARATE MICHAEL FROM HIS FAMILY BECAUSE HIS FAMILY REMINDS THEM THAT HE IS BLACK PERIOD.
 THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WAY JOE RAISED HIS KIDS THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RACISM.
 THIS IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.
DON'T DENY IT , FACE THE MUSIC.
The fact is, that Michael himself had said, that he suffered a great deal, from Joe "spanking " him. I would call it abuse.... NO child deserve that ! I dont know joes reasons to do so, but theres no reason that is valid. I would NEVER harm any of my children, nor spank them. I was never spanked as a child, and I never got into something bad. I'm glad that I'm not one of your kids.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Michael I love you allways.

Bravo, bravo, bravo!  

Thank you for posting this.  I agree 100%.   Criticism of the Jackson family is criticism of Michael.  He is a part of his family, just as we are a part of ours.  I may not always agree with my parents and siblings, but they are my family and I love and respect them.  I would defend them wholly if anyone was critical towards them.  Can you imagine how it might make Michael feel, having people "dis" his family?

I applaud and respect Mr. and Mrs. Jackson for all that they were all to provide and create for their family, despite all of the obstacles presented to them.  Family is about loving and supporting one another, even when it's not always easy.  Parents make mistakes; they generally do the best they know how to do in that moment in time.   I believe Michael set a good example by forgiving his father.  It is healthy and empowering to forgive.  There's a quote that expresses this well:  “Not forgiving is like drinking rat poison and then waiting for the rat to die.”
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."  Margaret Mead

 

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