Dirty Diana

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Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 09:41:13 AM
Great breakdown of the lyrics. I have always believed that Miss Ross popped his cherry. I don't think that it happened when he was a kid but when he was a young adult as they worked together on the Wiz. They filmed the movie in New York and it was the first time that he was away from the family too. There are  photos  showing them together during that time hanging out all of the time and partying together. Over the years there have been  several public appearances where Michael looked absolutely lovestruck while in her presence. He didn't look at her like she was just  a friend or big sister. There is a special way that a man looks at a woman that he loves and is intimate with.  Plus it has long been discussed how Miss Ross slept her way to the top. She probably jumped at the chance to teach  Michael Jackson,  Lucky bitch... :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 05:40:42 PM
The choice of that name is what triggered me to think it was about Miss Ross. He could have easily used Denise, Donna, Delilah or any other name starting with a "D". Her marriage to Arne  Naes struck a nerve with MJ. The song may have been a little revenge on his part. I am not mad at him for it either.  One dirty deed deserves another. :lol:

Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
She's says that's ok
Hey baby do what you want
I'll be your night lovin' thing
I'll be the freak you can taunt
And I don't care what you say
I want to go too far
I'll be your everything
If you make me a star
here, I don't think this is what she is saying to MJ...I think this relates to the above verse. I think this is what she is saying to the men who can get her to the top. MJ is giving us a narrative of what he has learned about her I think he is mocking her and telling her what he knows about her... The verse "i want to go to far" could mean far as in career wise...


Actually I think this may refer to Diana! Once she realised Michael became powerful, more popular than anybody else on this earth, she might have come back to him with a wish of him makig her a star! Remember the song "Muscles"? Michael wrote it for her! It was supposed to revive her solo career.... God only knows what she might have offered him for that... Hee hee...
I also thought in the past that this song might have referred to groupies, but this verse of making sb a star... Groupies don't usually want to be stars... You've opened my eyes on it... And the choice of the name Diana is significant. If it wasn't about her, if she was an "angel" - he wouldn't probably like to hurt her with these lyrics... Unless, this was a little revenge... ;)
Hmmm... Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!! :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 08:58:43 PM
Deep. Now you have me scratching my head and wondering about this song. Technically it could still apply to MJ ...who's heart was broken after their failed romance. For decades , I had heard that a marriage promise was made to him and that the promise would be fulfilled when he turned 18.

BTW- did you read Moonwalker and the way that MJ described his relationship with Miss Ross? Bear in mind, these are his words that are used in the book and not some 2nd or 3rd hand source. He used quite a few adjectives to describe what she was to him including the word "lover" . My best friend is a man and we love one another like brother and sister. He would not use the word "lover" to describe what I am to him.  :lol:

Quote from: "mykidsmum"
since I posted this, this topic has been on my mind constantly and I have been going about my day thinking of things under this light.  This is what I came to realize...  I honestly think MJ never ever got over Diana.  I think this infatuation and love he had for her was much bigger than any of us thought or even wondered about and is quite possibly the root of all his loneliness and agony.  I red somewhere on line that MJ dedicated Remember The Time to Diana Ross.  I started there and went and listened to it again.  I felt like I was hearing the song again for the first time!  I was going to the store, riding in my car, thinking, thinking...I remembered reading on a blog little tributes MJ paid to Diana in his career.  One of them was from the video...Who Is It.  In this video when the "call girl" knocks on MJ's door, the butler tosses her all of her business cards with all her different aliases that MJ found.  One of the shots is a card with the name "Diana."  Thinking of this I listened to the song again and was astounded to realize poor MJ never ever got over Diana and even this song was about her.  Let me show you...

I Gave Her Money
i'm not sure if MJ ever gave Diana money, but he did give her a couple of songs for free, this made her some money, and also, she was his manager/producer for a while but MJ didn't like that situation and ended that, so that could be the meaning behind I gave her money.
I Gave Her Time
I Gave Her Everything
Inside One Heart Could Find
I Gave Her Passion
My Very Soul
I Gave Her Promises
And Secrets So Untold
this verse is self explanatory.  MJ said in various interviews that he shared secrets with Diana, they both shared them with each other

And She Promised Me Forever
And A Day We'd Live As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Life Anewagain, this goes back to the promise that Diana made to MJ about getting married when he turned 18.  I'm sure he promised him as a boy not really being serious, just playing with him, but I'm sure Michael took it very seriously
And She Promised Me In Secret
That She'd Love Me For All Time
it's no secret they spent lots of alone time together
It's A Promise So Untrue
Tell Me What Will I Do?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
to all of us he seems composed and no one would think this is bothering him, even to the point where he is fooling himself about how much this bothers him
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find In Someone Else?
it's no secret she married Arnie Nass...
(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mineat one time it was Barry Gordy
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother!I hope she never had a fling with another Jackson!
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take This Stuff No More
obviously this isn't the first time Diana has put him in this situation

I Am The Damned
I Am The Dead
I Am The Agony Inside
The Dying Head
This Is Injustice
Woe Unto Thee
I Pray This Punishment
Would Have Mercy On Me

And She Promised Me Forever
That We'd Live Our Life As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Love So True
It Seems That She Has Left Me
For Such Reasons Unexplained
I Need To Find The Truth
But See What Will I Do!

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
this line was difficult for me to decipher until it hit me...rumor has it that Diana married Arnie nass for his fortune...she was struggling at the time (it has been said) so with that in mind, I see Michael as using  the word will as representing her career...it has not brought you your fortune that you had counted on, like how some people count on wills, so you turned to desperate measures and this could be the reason Michael is looking for...it doesn't seem right...it's not right marrying someone for money, and it doesn't seem to matter....but it doesn't seem to matter to you that what you are doing isn't right. Meanwhile...
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
it's been said that Diana married Arnie and Michel didn't find out until he was invited to the wedding, which he didn't go to.  People have said that he was upset that Diana never introduced him or made it a point to tell him about Arnie...she didn't even write a letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother?
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

(Who Is It?)
It Is Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
To Me I'm Bothered
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seen Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 09:48:41 PM
Plus let's not forget who is willed to care for the children if something happens to Mrs. Jackson. Michael was apparently determined that one way or another Diana Ross would be the mother of his children.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 09:55:59 PM
She has demonstrated herself to be a good mother figure. Despite what anyone feels about her she can be credited with raising 5 seemingly normal children. There were no stories about rebellion, drugs, or other things that fall on the kids of celebrities. Each of her children seem to be living their lives drama free and out of the glare of the tabloids.

Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
Quote from: "GirlSaturday"
Plus let's not forget who is willed to care for the children if something happens to Mrs. Jackson. Michael was apparently determined that one way or another Diana Ross would be the mother of his children.
OMJ!! and poor naive me thinking it was because she was a mother figure to him!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 27, 2010, 10:24:27 PM
WOW! That is d-e-e-p. Thanks for finding it.
It definitely answers some questions......


Quote from: "Venus7"
I agree, probably there was something between them. I think he loveed her and was hurt by her by marring other man.
After she relized that how much this  affected him, and how lonely he was Diana wrote one song to MJ without telling his name, but you can tell is about Michael....so sad...

[youtube:5dxbkyzv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW91BM_oARs[/youtube:5dxbkyzv]

Look in the mirror, who do you see
Where is the man that you used to be
When you turn off the world and turn down the lights
Do you ever wonder who you are tonight

I knew you then, I love you now
You can call me up when it gets you down
Behind the shades there's someone real
Behind your eyes I wonder how you feel

This is me talking to you
There's just one thing I'm asking you to do

You gotta drop the mask, be yourself
Drop the mask
Trust someone else

No one knows what you're going through
Whatever it is, I'll be there for you
If you drop the mask, be yourself
Drop the mask
Trust someone else

I was there when it all began
I still remember the boy within the man
I understand what it means to run and hide
There's so much that we're holding onto deep down inside

This is me talking to you
The only thing that I want you to do

You gotta drop the mask, be yourself
Drop the mask
Trust someone else

No one knows what you're going through
Whatever it is, I'll be there for you
When you drop the mask, be yourself
Drop the mask
Trust someone else

Drop the mask
Drop the mask
Let down your guard, open your heart
Unlose your chains, don't be afraid
Drop the mask
Be yourself
Be yourself
Trust someone else
You gotta drop the mask
Let down your guard, oh you gotta drop the mask
Trust someone else
You gotta drop the mask
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 27, 2010, 10:35:54 PM
Yep...but there has always been the BIG question....

Evan looks like Arne Naes (sp?) but he also looks like.....

BTW - where is Diana's other son. Why are there no pics of him to be found.
Quote from: "Venus7"
You know what also interesting....Diana's son Evan looks little bit like MJ in 80-s. But of course is not MJ's son, he looks that way because of Diana's white husband. Evan is very handsome young man.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 02, 2010, 09:45:12 PM
There are so many Mj songs that may have a story behind their story. You cannot help but be curious as to which lucky ladies were the real subjects of these songs.

Quote from: "mykidsmum"
I know that Wanna be Startin Something is about La Toya...La Toya is his Baby and it was written during a time when the brother's wives were giving her a hard time and always trying to start something in the family with her.  At one point she says in her book, she has a break down and has to be taken to the Dr.   I have heard that She's Out of My Life was for Tatum O'Neil, but I can't immagine that...  She said that herself in an interview.  Gone to Soon is for and about Ryan White.  Dom Sheldon...LOL we all know who that is for and about!  Tom Sneddon!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 06:34:11 PM
There really should be an " applause" emoticon. You hit the nail right on the head regarding those 2 :lol:

Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
[youtube:1g71my8h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpmWUIG7mJY[/youtube:1g71my8h]

This video is quite "telling", as well.


OMG, they're is soooo much sexual tension there.  :)  Watch MJ, right after he and Diana kiss each other.  Watch how he is "studying her", while looking a bit awkward at the same time.  

THERE IS DEFINITELY A "HISTORY", BETWEEN THEM! I highly doubt that it was ALL in his mind.

I think she "put it ON him" and then gave him mixed signals (she seems like a "control freak", at times).  I'm not bashing Diana per se, merely offering another angle. I Also think it's possible that she "got off" on the POWER that she had over him (desire).  Being as passionate a person, as MJ was.....I think it really ate him up, not being able to openly express his true feelings.  I can imagine her telling him to keep it in perspective (sex) and that she could appreciate it for what it was (if they DID, in fact, GO THERE).  

HOWEVER, in MJ's mind.....it was NO DOUBT, A BIG DEAL!  I'm sure, that he felt she "dismissed" his feelings (she probably did).  I just think he was too HARD on himself, he's very perceptive and I believe Diana gave him a very tangible reason for him to have fallen so hard, for her.

I wished they could've found a way to "make it work."  Ironically, I think there's a reason that he named her as a backup guardian (that goes way beyond him respecting her parenting).  It would especially make SENSE, if he IS still alive and they've (unbenounced to US) been seeing each other.  What better way to have the "love of your life" accessible (ie...your childrens' caretaker)?  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 06:45:18 PM
BTW - I am glad that the man had a full and "normal" life.  If he experienced love, loved loss and love again then good for him. There are too many people fantasizing over him who believe that he sat around day in and day out just watching cartoons and riding on roller coasters.  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 11:43:43 PM
You wrapped that up and put a bow on it. I have been trying to do so for some time but didn't. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Damn..you're good! :lol:

Allow me to add...she saw the potential in him and defnitely wanted "first dibs".  

Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
I suspect that after The Wiz wrapped up, THAT'S when the "shift" in their relationship may have happened (if not, DURING).  She planted the seed, by getting him to feel dependant on her (given their history).  Then, used his naivety to her advantage.  

I'm not meaning to be insensitive. I DO think that she cared for him....to an extent, but perhaps, viewed MJ as a challenge as he got older.   When the reality of the situation (his falling for her) became too much for her to deal with, she checked out (emotionally) and left him "holding the bag."   I'm thinking that, after everything he went through in youth, he wanted a chance at NORMALCY and hoped that she could provide that.  She "knew" him better than probably ANYONE.  They spent a LOT of time together (even more-so, doing The Wiz.).  It's a proven "fact" that proximity is a major factor in attraction (hence, prevalence of OFFICE "affairs").

Quote
# Proximity

The closer two people live to each other the more likely it is for them to like one another. Research has shown that the best single predictor of whether two people are friends is how far apart they live. This idea leads into the next one.
(self-explanatory)

# Familiarity

One of the major reasons proximity creates liking is that it increases familiarity. Generally speaking, the more a person interacts with another person, the more attraction builds between them.
(Years of getting to "know" each other, learning each others HABITS, etc)

# Similarity

This idea does not say that soccer players will marry soccer players. Instead, it makes claims that those interested in sports are attracted to those interested in sports. Statistics show that people who pair off do so according to similarities in race, age, religion, education, physical characteristics, and other general characteristics.

They're BOTH "Celebrities"..... understand Show Business)




She was his last attempt at finding LOVE, TRUST and SECURITY (in his mind) and when she "rejected" him....it was like a DAGGER to the heart.

In my opinion..... I think that his androgyny could have been linked to HIS feelings of (PERCEIVED) "inadequacy."  IE...he didn't feel 100% confident in his manliness (whatever THAT means).  However, when he performs ONSTAGE, he becomes another person.  He's able to convey CONFIDANCE, SENSUALITY, etc...In other words, he's "FREE" to be who he is!

I really think that his onstage persona IS who MJ IS. You can't "fake" the expressiveness, magnetism that he obviously HAS onstage.  He didn't have to "try", it just can naturally, like a weight being "lifted" off of him.  HE was in "control".

If you watch the making of the "Ghosts" video, WATCH the part where he's transformed into The Mayor and he's joking around with the person who was there.   It's AMAZING and ironic....  he feels able to be "himself", while disguised as someone else.  Watch his body language and the way he speaks, he is not guarded, cautious or anything.  He's joking around and seems very comfortable in his own skin (oxymoron).  ;)  In THAT context.

Listen to how his voice deepens , also pay attn. to WHAT HE'S SAYING starting at 6:40 - 7:00
[youtube:1gih72pg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-_V3d2I3Q[/youtube:1gih72pg]


I said all of that, to say that....
Diana Ross played a major part in who MJ, became.

Sorry, this has turned into  "The Psychology of Michael Jackson" ......dissertation. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 11, 2010, 09:21:17 PM
Diana Ross is now in her mid 60s and a much different woman than she was in her youth. Most people  grow, mature and change as they age. She has demonstrated that she is a great mother by the way that she has raised her own 5 children. She is next in line to raise MJs kids because she is a good mother today and not the same woman that she was in days past.
Quote from: "word"
Please stop the madness,this song has nothing to do with Diana Ross,if she was that dirty then why would he want leave his children in her care,she is next in line to get the children if Mrs.jackson is no longer able to properly care for them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 31, 2010, 04:15:44 PM
Interesting vid and I couldn't help but notice for the first time the uncanny physical similarities between Miss Ross and Miss Campbell. Coincidence that he chose Miss Campbell for the "In The Closet" video ? Maybe or maybe not.  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: April 07, 2010, 01:29:01 PM
Harlequin romance. Puleez...
I have been so tempted to turn this into something more risque but backed off since I don't want to be slapped on the  wrist.

I asked a male friend his opinion. He gave an interesting reply. He said that things could have gone either way. However he strongly  believes that nothing significant happened. But, he said,  that doesn't mean  ...end of story. He also said that it may be that she kept MJ close by and smitten by leading him to believe that he could be with her ....one day. That ...my friend  said was a carrot for her to use and  be able to reel him in if she ever really wanted to be with MJ.  No one would turn MJ down. What or who he wanted he could get. She would have been his ultimate personal conquest  and achievement. This is especially true since she had a reputation as being quite free and independent regarding romance. MJ may have believed that his love toward her and being with him could tame her and allow him to do what few other men could do.

Consider this. Every woman that MJ dated or married was just a fill-in. Some one to kill time while he patiently waited for  Diana to give in to him. If Diana had crooked her  little finger, he would have dropped (fill inthe blank) and gone running to her.  I've known love ...deep love in my time but that is some pretty deep love to consider.

IF... what my friend alluded to is true then that deep love only intensified when MJ became an experienced man. Afterall he could then ponder the things that could take place between himself and Diana. His mind must have been racing with thoughts and imagery. Jealous  anyone:lol:

Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
Thank you for that article!  It's like he was speaking through the PAGE! :D

I feel that you can take away "two" things from it....

He strongly implied that he wanted to MARRY Diana:


Either, to "SEAL" THE DEAL (within a "Marriage") because he LOVED her.

                             OR

Because they had "already", DONE SO (or came damn near close, and he wanted a clear conscience about it (due to the fact that it WAS a big deal to him, because he LOVED her).

Whatever the answer.  I can't see how ANYONE could feel so passionately, for a "love interest"...just based on respect and admiration ALONE.  I'm convinced that SOMETHING went "down" between the two of them, even if was just a "Passionate KISS" done in the heat of the moment(s).  He was so obviously "LOVE-STRUCK".  The question is what circumstances contributed to it?



As you can see..i'm trying to turn this into a Harlequin Romance. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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