Dirty Diana

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Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 02:11:44 PM
I hope everyone understands that these things are just mere speculations or that is how I see it since we don't know anything. And people talking about Michael's innocence and pure heart and bla bla bla, we know Michael was the most gentle soul but we still can't claim this or that. Michael was a private person and I'm sure there are millions of things we don't know about him. Was he always that innocent? Was Diana the love of his life? Who knows? All I know is that as human beings we are curious and without meaning any harm. Idk but it seems like some people have somehow put him on a pedestal thinking he could never do "human" things or maybe I'm just misinterpreting... However, I bet that image put a lot of pressure on our sweetheart and I just want him to know that love makes an imperfect person perfect. And we are all imperfect but that's there's where the charm is!  :)

And I have not been dissing miss Diana Ross.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

this1crazygirl

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 02:46:31 PM
Quote from: "Its her"
Quote from: "Willa"
Hi there It's Her.  Your points are well taken.  I wonder if the song "Speechless" was about Diana Ross.  It would be appropriate if it were.  She is a terrific lady. :)

Hey Willa,
I really believe that Michael Jackson has been singing to the One he's been "believing God for" , since he first realized he'd like to be married, someday.  But that's just because I know many Christians who do everything with their future Love in mind. I keeps you on :D the path :D, if you're always mindful of him or her. 8-)

I used to pray for mine every single night, until it took so long, I decided maybe he was in prison or something :oops:, as MY personal preference was someone with serious pride (the good kind) and fearlessness, which ofttimes gets one in trouble, rubbing the small minded the wrong way... Then, I missed a few nights, and began to think he had died or something---maybe married someone else. :oops:
After, I took a look at what was available to me with the crop of mean, self-centered, womanizing men out there, I decided he wasn't born yet!! I wanted something very, very specific, and had NO doubts, years ago, that God had one of THESE up His sleeve, but, people told me to "Give it up, Jesus ain't coming back in your lifetime!" :roll:

With friends like that...:?

ANY way, when MJ did SPEECHLESS, he didn't have a girlfriend, because he was hitting on some blonde chickadee at the CD signing. I don't think he wrote it of D.R., because of something he says in it, and they, I am quite certain were not ever hot and heavy. Same with "Elizabeth".

I even thought it was directed to God, until I listened closer. It's very definitely with a person he is "involved" with, IN THE SONG. Because He WASN'T with anyone, I think it is just fiction. Beautiful 8-), almost Holy 8-), and meant for anyone who will have him! :D  

He sings alot of fiction. YOU ROCK MY WORLD is sung to the same person, his DREAM girl, even though he didn't write it.  Not anyone specific. I don't think he ever saw anyone get (a) "seven inches (knife) in" them, either, thank God; and when he sang THE GIRL IS MINE, both ways, you KNOW he didn't find himself SHARING any girl with either of the two co-singers!!!!!

Ha ha ha  I LOVE those songs. He has a magic pen, and magic pipes. He's a KEEPER :) :wink:
Yeah...

sweet  8-)  :D  :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline XspeechlessX

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
hmmm, wow!
a lot to take in lol! MJ saying he ha sex at 10! im sorry but when I was 10 I didnt know what sex is, well maybe im a lil slow but wow lol
ok so do you think he was talking about diana ross in the tapes of his phone calls with Glenda or who ever, he says something about giving Diana money and stuff, and I think he says something about he knew she did something, like she cheateded on him or something
I always thought the Diana from those tapes was dirty diana but did not think at all it could be Diana ross...
but wouldnt you think that would be the stop of their relationship? he did state he was in love with her in a magazine interview.
btw, I really enjoy your posts! the rare video of MJ that you posted has got to be my fav. the one where he calls Randy ugly LOL! and the clown photos! thanks a lot 4 those, what els.... I could go on  and on! Thanks a lot 4 all your efforts and all your posts! I love them ! <3
aww thanks, I just hope you were never on the end of one of my tirades...LOL!  Any way, I don't believe that MJ had sex at 10, I was only quoting what one woman said that he said.  I think he was just trying to be a big shot but I do believe he loved Diana at age 10.  I have no doubt that something happend between them before he turned 18.  I still think he loves her...I don't think he ever stopped, but I think this song was written in anger of the realization that she wasn't the pure lady he thought she was and the promise of marrying him when he turned 18 was just a silly dream.  As for the Glenda tapes...Please, don't believe them.  I know that they show a side to MJ that few have seen but I will tell you, that is NOT MJ.  Fans want it to be MJ so bad.  I will tell you one thing you can listen to to confirm that it is not MJ...in the tapes, "MJ" starts telling Glenda about his schedule of all the places he has to be...These are all places MJ has been many many if not HUNDREDS of times before.  These are all names of places even I have heard of...In the tapes...he can't even say the names and has to spell them...not only that but there is a part where "MJ" SPEAKS a line from his song and tells glenda he will make her a tape...he attepts a few quiet shy bars of the song and then thats when he says, "I'll make you a tape of some songs."  Everyone knows MJ was not afraid to sing here and there...there is a tape of him in his home singing with the kids doing a puzzle, a tape of him walking and singing and greeting fans...he always goes into song.  There is a tape of him singing to Elizabeth on the phone and siging another BeGees song with his friend Bret Ratner...That is what he does...he doesn't sing on the tape because the person trying to pretend to be MJ can't sing...Please, there are other things too, but don't believe the tapes...Read the Rabbi book, there is more juicy stuff in there than on those dumb glenda tapes.  Thanks again for what you said about my posts.  I'm always looking for neat things. Here is a couple for you...a real tape of MJ's voice and a cute other one I found...
[youtube:3l0xas8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au7JBDOPkC4&feature=related[/youtube:3l0xas8t]
[youtube:3l0xas8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH3AVtzJvv8&feature=related[/youtube:3l0xas8t]

Goshh... these really upset me.  :|

I mean.. that first one.... "never print this. Please dont."
I felt real guilty for watching it if he didnt want people to know that... you know?

And that second on. He just seemed so lonely. I mean the kids were real sweet and all but the bumper cars.. the staff were joining in so there wasnt just him. He needs all the kids he used to have there.... all happy and laughing...
Such a wonderful man.

And looking at Neverland like that. And then them pics of it now... the tent falling apart etc... Just wondering... how could he possibly be there now.. ?

 :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


"Call the man
Who deals in love beyond repair
He can heal the world
Of hearts in need of care
Shine a light ahead
When the next step is unclear
Call the man
He\'s needed here"

 - I never can say goodbye

the arabian nights

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 04:14:08 PM
what ever and with whom ever - mike's business, but  mike it would seem did have had a full life

so no need to feel sorry about this aspect of his life
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GreenManMakeAChange

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 04:20:24 PM
If you don't agree with the poster, don't attack them and say the media will go after that and make up shit.  If the media is watching this site, there's plenty of stuff they can manipulate and take from here.  No need to get personal.  It's just analyzing a song and it's fun and not serious, at least not to me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 06:34:11 PM
There really should be an " applause" emoticon. You hit the nail right on the head regarding those 2 :lol:

Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
[youtube:1g71my8h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpmWUIG7mJY[/youtube:1g71my8h]

This video is quite "telling", as well.


OMG, they're is soooo much sexual tension there.  :)  Watch MJ, right after he and Diana kiss each other.  Watch how he is "studying her", while looking a bit awkward at the same time.  

THERE IS DEFINITELY A "HISTORY", BETWEEN THEM! I highly doubt that it was ALL in his mind.

I think she "put it ON him" and then gave him mixed signals (she seems like a "control freak", at times).  I'm not bashing Diana per se, merely offering another angle. I Also think it's possible that she "got off" on the POWER that she had over him (desire).  Being as passionate a person, as MJ was.....I think it really ate him up, not being able to openly express his true feelings.  I can imagine her telling him to keep it in perspective (sex) and that she could appreciate it for what it was (if they DID, in fact, GO THERE).  

HOWEVER, in MJ's mind.....it was NO DOUBT, A BIG DEAL!  I'm sure, that he felt she "dismissed" his feelings (she probably did).  I just think he was too HARD on himself, he's very perceptive and I believe Diana gave him a very tangible reason for him to have fallen so hard, for her.

I wished they could've found a way to "make it work."  Ironically, I think there's a reason that he named her as a backup guardian (that goes way beyond him respecting her parenting).  It would especially make SENSE, if he IS still alive and they've (unbenounced to US) been seeing each other.  What better way to have the "love of your life" accessible (ie...your childrens' caretaker)?  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 06:45:18 PM
BTW - I am glad that the man had a full and "normal" life.  If he experienced love, loved loss and love again then good for him. There are too many people fantasizing over him who believe that he sat around day in and day out just watching cartoons and riding on roller coasters.  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline billiejean17

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 06:57:42 PM
I am not all that keen on Diana Ross, i wouldn't like to pass judgement on her, but you shouldn't believe everything you read...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Forever Michael

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 08:08:56 PM
Quote from: "Its her"
:) No offense, to any one, especially to all of you who so easily believe this as the truth, but it is no way in HELL true. Your immediate source is lying like a rug to sell her story. It is crap on crap. omg, his kids may be reading here.           :shock:  :shock:  :shock:      :shock:


I take exception to anyone dissing the great Lady, Diana Ross. How superior and catty you sound, so "knowledgable" about her sex life and how she bought her way to the top with it... Quit that. It's clearly not true that she hasn't enough just plain TALENT.
                                           :x
I take exception to putting her and Michael Jackson together in some dirty  :evil: story, of what amounts to child molestation!  :shock:  (YES, even if you qualified it and pretended to "take it back".)

I know your imagination just got the better of you in the OP, but, PULLEEEZe, save this kind of thing for the tabloids or maybe make some money writing novels. I mean NO harm, and I don't think you meant harm, either, but this is so dirty and defamatory, just FYI... :(  

You better not say MJ was doing Miss Ross at ANY point in his pure,  8-) chaste, DECENT, churchboy youth and actually, I really seriously DO meant up to age 32 at LEAST!!!!!  :!:

It is so obscene I feel sick. YUK....

Let me tell you about Diana Ross and just a couple of reasons Michael loves her to THIS HOUR:

Ms. Ross has always been one of the most openly affectionate and playful girls on the planet, and paid LOTS of loving attention to a little guy who was away from his mommy's embrace for great blocks of time, making a name for himself on Earth.

She's very classy, beautiful, even now, and FULL of personality and wit.

Michael had very good taste.  ;) He was just too young and innocent to GET it, that she was just a real nice lover--in a non-sexual, non-designing way. Haven't we ALL misunderstood someone's intentions, when we were that green?

It's not her fault and it's not a crime that he fell so hard for such a class act. It is a sacred thing for us to even be privy to this crush of his. Poor thing can't even keep his green-ness out of the public's nosey eyes...

BTW, WHO goes to a wedding with a secret rusty stake in their heart???!! Have some respect. :(  :(  The guy is wrecked and MUST save face. Sheeesh. It's not anger, it's DEATH to Love.

I know touchy-feely women like this---sort of like LOUD flowers,  who are so busy wafting joy around, they are oblivious to the affect it may be having on a teenage boy and his hormones and hungry heart. She would NEVER dream of teasing him or mean to be leading him on that way ON PURPOSE. Get your minds out of the gutter, PLEASE.  :roll:

There was NOTHING sexual or dirty about it!  :roll:  :x

It's called "love" and tender ATTENTION, something every boy LOVES to be the recipient of, even if they pretend to fight it, but, somehow, I don't think it occurred to MJ that it needed fighting. :lol:  :lol:  :D   He was unbelievably intelligent at even a very young age!

I would have hugged the daylights out of that sweetie-pie, myself, and covered him with some heart-nutritious kisses, EVERY time I could REACH him. :!:  :oops:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  

Man, you shocked me SO much.  :cry: EEWWW.

Secondly, Diana Ross was an excellent mom to her own children. When she was touring , she'd fly home every night to tuck her kids in bed tight, with kisses, as if love was :D a necessary nutrient for young growing hearts. [That is, if she couldn't just have packed them up and taken them with her!]


Don't you dare  

make his sweet, sweet, precious, puppy love crush on her and her PRIDE in simply KNOWING that handsome devil and fine inner man Mikey grew up to BE, as ANYTHING CREEPY!!!!!!!!!!!

Did ya ever think that maybe he just liked singing her name, after years in love with her?!  ;)  :D
WOW!  That is too much to take in!  I've never had anyone tell me what to do like that or tell me what I am allowed to say or not to say.  I'm sorry, but Michael Jackson isn't your sweet little church boy.  All you need to see is the file from the trial to see his list of Porn magazines.  All of them he said were his with his fingerprints on them, and the porn sites he was registered for...LOL!  As for Dianna Ross being the saint that you think she is...I guess that is why she had an affair with Barry Gordy and had his LOVE CHILD while she was married....because she is a saint and never slept around.  There is a recurring theme with some of his songs and I am just calling them as I see them.  You want to pretend MJ is a choir boy and an angel...go right ahead, but I believe him to be more on the NORMAL side of humanity... and as a free person with a brain of my own, I have every right to post what I see without someone telling me not to.  Maybe you should go watch some concert footage of MJ practically masturbating himself on stage and then come back and tell me how much of a saint he is, because the last time I looked, masturbation is pretty much a one way ticket to the hell fire in Christianity.  On an end note...I will say what I want when I want...If you don't like it...I offer you this advice...DONT READ IT!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 08:22:19 PM
I'd also like to comment about what I said about what MJ said when he was 10.  I was including that part (about him telling the president of the J5 fan club that Diana was his girlfriend and they were doing it) to show you that at 10 years old, he loved her.  I even stated that I did not believe that to be true!  I said that I saw it as a ten year old Michael trying to show off!  As for being naive and innocent!  ha ha ha!  Michael was around sex all the time!  Nothing I said came out of my own mouth...It was all stuff I had read.  The only thing that was mine was the interpretation of the songs.  Here is an interview the J5 did as kids...listen to how MJ says Diana's name..LOL!  and how he describes what he likes in women... I'm posting part one and part two because I don't know which part has the part about what he likes in women.  Even then you can see he was around his brothers who were NOT innocent and I'm sure MJ knew a bit himself....
[youtube:340frfz2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb8KeVCDie0[/youtube:340frfz2]
[youtube:340frfz2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NyyZKY7M7A&feature=fvw[/youtube:340frfz2]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline teerockjelli

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 08:47:51 PM
by mykidsmum » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:08 pm

"...Maybe you should go watch some concert footage of MJ practically masturbating himself on stage and then come back and tell me how much of a saint he is, because the last time I looked, masturbation is pretty much a one way ticket to the hell fire in Christianity. On an end note...I will say what I want when I want...If you don't like it...I offer you this advice...DONT READ IT!"

----  I must say I've seen more than my fair share of MJ videos,  8-) and yeah he may gyrate off the chain  :) and make  masculine dance hand gestures  :lol:  (female dancers do it too... fake rub their bodies, you know what I mean) but he is far from masturbating! you must don't get it enough so that looks real serious  :lol: I AM JUST KIDDING  :lol:  8-) and since when is masturbating a ticket to hell? that is so funny
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: "teerockjelli"
by mykidsmum » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:08 pm

"...Maybe you should go watch some concert footage of MJ practically masturbating himself on stage and then come back and tell me how much of a saint he is, because the last time I looked, masturbation is pretty much a one way ticket to the hell fire in Christianity. On an end note...I will say what I want when I want...If you don't like it...I offer you this advice...DONT READ IT!"

----  I must say I've seen more than my fair share of MJ videos,  8-) and yeah he may gyrate off the chain  :) and make  masculine dance hand gestures  :lol:  (female dancers do it too... fake rub their bodies, you know what I mean) but he is far from masturbating! you must don't get it enough so that looks real serious  :lol: I AM JUST KIDDING  :lol:  8-) and since when is masturbating a ticket to hell? that is so funny
sorry, just trying to illustrate my post.  Don't take me seriously.  they say masturbation in Christianity is a sin...I was exagerating about the ticket to the hell fire...Simply trying to illustrate...Glad you thought it was funny:)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MSMJFANFOREVER

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 09:02:11 PM
I suspect that after The Wiz wrapped up, THAT'S when the "shift" in their relationship may have happened (if not, DURING).  She planted the seed, by getting him to feel dependant on her (given their history).  Then, used his naivety to her advantage.  

I'm not meaning to be insensitive. I DO think that she cared for him....to an extent, but perhaps, viewed MJ as a challenge as he got older.   When the reality of the situation (his falling for her) became too much for her to deal with, she checked out (emotionally) and left him "holding the bag."   I'm thinking that, after everything he went through in youth, he wanted a chance at NORMALCY and hoped that she could provide that.  She "knew" him better than probably ANYONE.  They spent a LOT of time together (even more-so, doing The Wiz.).  It's a proven "fact" that proximity is a major factor in attraction (hence, prevalence of OFFICE "affairs").

Quote
# Proximity

The closer two people live to each other the more likely it is for them to like one another. Research has shown that the best single predictor of whether two people are friends is how far apart they live. This idea leads into the next one.
(self-explanatory)

# Familiarity

One of the major reasons proximity creates liking is that it increases familiarity. Generally speaking, the more a person interacts with another person, the more attraction builds between them.
(Years of getting to "know" each other, learning each others HABITS, etc)

# Similarity

This idea does not say that soccer players will marry soccer players. Instead, it makes claims that those interested in sports are attracted to those interested in sports. Statistics show that people who pair off do so according to similarities in race, age, religion, education, physical characteristics, and other general characteristics.

They're BOTH "Celebrities"..... understand Show Business)




She was his last attempt at finding LOVE, TRUST and SECURITY (in his mind) and when she "rejected" him....it was like a DAGGER to the heart.

In my opinion..... I think that his androgyny could have been linked to HIS feelings of (PERCEIVED) "inadequacy."  IE...he didn't feel 100% confident in his manliness (whatever THAT means).  However, when he performs ONSTAGE, he becomes another person.  He's able to convey CONFIDANCE, SENSUALITY, etc...In other words, he's "FREE" to be who he is!

I really think that his onstage persona IS who MJ IS. You can't "fake" the expressiveness, magnetism that he obviously HAS onstage.  He didn't have to "try", it just can naturally, like a weight being "lifted" off of him.  HE was in "control".

If you watch the making of the "Ghosts" video, WATCH the part where he's transformed into The Mayor and he's joking around with the person who was there.   It's AMAZING and ironic....  he feels able to be "himself", while disguised as someone else.  Watch his body language and the way he speaks, he is not guarded, cautious or anything.  He's joking around and seems very comfortable in his own skin (oxymoron).  ;)  In THAT context.

Listen to how his voice deepens , also pay attn. to WHAT HE'S SAYING starting at 6:40 - 7:00
[youtube:2dhkt121]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-_V3d2I3Q[/youtube:2dhkt121]


I said all of that, to say that....
Diana Ross played a major part in who MJ, became.

Sorry, this has turned into  "The Psychology of Michael Jackson" ......dissertation. :D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 11:36:58 PM by MSMJFANFOREVER »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
I suspect that after The Wiz wrapped up, THAT'S when the "shift" in their relationship may have happened (if not, DURING).  She planted the seed, by getting him to feel dependant on her (given their history).  Then, used his naivety to her advantage.  

I'm not meaning to be insensitive. I DO think that she cared for him....to an extent, but perhaps, viewed MJ as a challenge as he got older.   When the reality of the situation (his falling for her) became too much for her to deal with, she checked out (emotionally) and left him "holding the bag."   I'm thinking that, after everything he went through in youth, he wanted a chance at NORMALCY and hoped that she could provide that.  She "knew" him better than probably ANYONE.  They spent a LOT of time together (even more-so, doing The Wiz.).  It's a proven "fact" that proximity is a major factor in attraction (hence, prevalence of OFFICE "affairs").

Quote
# Proximity

The closer two people live to each other the more likely it is for them to like one another. Research has shown that the best single predictor of whether two people are friends is how far apart they live. This idea leads into the next one.
(self-explanatory)

# Familiarity

One of the major reasons proximity creates liking is that it increases familiarity. Generally speaking, the more a person interacts with another person, the more attraction builds between them.
(Years of getting to "know" each other, learning each others HABITS, etc)

# Similarity

This idea does not say that soccer players will marry soccer players. Instead, it makes claims that those interested in sports are attracted to those interested in sports. Statistics show that people who pair off do so according to similarities in race, age, religion, education, physical characteristics, and other general characteristics.

They're BOTH "Celebrities"..... understand Show Business)




She was his last attempt at finding LOVE, TRUST and SECURITY (in his mind) and when she "rejected" him....it was like a "dagger" to the heart.

In my opinion..... I think that his androgyny could have been linked to his feelings of (PERCEIVED) "inadequacy."  IE...he didn't feel 100% confident in his manliness.  However, when he performs ONSTAGE, he becomes another person.  He's able to convey CONFIDANCE, SENSUALITY, etc...In other words, he's "FREE" to be who he is!

I really think that his onstage persona IS who MJ IS. You can't "fake" the expressiveness, magnetism that he obviously HAS onstage.  He didn't have to "try", it just can naturally, like a weight being "lifted" off of him.  HE was in "control".

If you watch the making of the "Ghosts" video, WATCH the part where he's transformed into The Mayor and he's joking around with the person who was there.   It's AMAZING and ironic....  he feels able to be "himself", while disguised as someone else.  Watch his body language and the way he speaks, he is not guarded, cautious or anything.  He's joking around and seems very comfortable in his own skin (oxymoron).  ;)  In THAT context.
(gonna try to find that clip)


I said all of that, to say that....
Diana Ross played a major part in who MJ, became.

Sorry, this has turned into  "The Psychology of Michael Jackson" ......dissertation. :D
you said it!  I agree with you one hundred percent but the androgyny part.  I'm not feeling the androgyny.  I think the makeup and the lipstick all stems from the vitiligo.  I do feel he had the pressure to be Michael Jackson and represent himself at all times, one false move and he's in the tabloids.  He seemed always to have his guard up and the costume allowed him to be himself like you said.  We forget that Michel Jackson is also a persona that MJ spent a life time perfecting.  I think on stage he was himself, like you said.  I think he was very conflicted when it came to his sexuality (sexuality, as in conflict with abstinence like his faith preached and his feelings as a hot blooded male) and performing gave him an outlet to express himself.  I think MJ knew he was a man and makeup and all that other stuff came as a result of vitiligo.  Honestly, his makeup, hair and clothes, are not much different then def Leopard or Bon Jovi of the 80's.  And these were "MEN" too. LOL!  But fantastic insight!  I really agree with most of it!
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Offline MSMJFANFOREVER

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 11:17:59 PM
Quote
Mykidsmum

It's interesting how we all may look at the same thing and interpret it "differently."  Oh...The Wonders of Human Behavior :D

I agree that his Vitiligo, was the MAIN reason for the make-up, etc. But I think there's more too it. Almost like a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy.  I think the more makeup/extremism with his clothing that he evolved into...he may have found that it became easier to HIDE (so-to-speak).  Remember, people placed unfair "expectations" on MJ, since he was little.  On a subconscious level (or purposeful...IDK) he probably found it easier to tolerate living in the World, by NOT being himself. His life experiences "conditioned" him into believing that People COULD NOT BE TRUSTED. Unfortunately, his "Family" as well.  


Put yourself in his shoes for a minute.

You are getting ALL of this female attention, adoration etc. It's ultimately, what you DESIRE (to be in a real, trusting relationship), but it is INTIMIDATING, probably FRIGHTENING on some level.   You will HAVE to live up to this expectation of being the type of Man that these women WANT YOU TO BE .  You have no "real" experience in this area and it would mean that you would have to put your self "out there" (AGAIN) and TRUST someone to give you what you "need."  HIStory has taught you that relationships with women are, OFTEN, a "major" source of stress and conflict.

Add to that.....your relationship with your Father is strained (and a whole OTHER story). Brothers were co-dependant, and couldn't really offer healthy DIRECTION (they were never in stable relationships, themselves).  You grew up, exposed to adult situations that you never should've been PUT in.  It seems that there's no real POINT in trying to "reach out." (FYI-I'm not BLAMING here....just stating my perspective).


And so, you ADAPT.....learn to "compartmentalize" your REAL self, -vs- your "psuedo" persona.  You try to suppress your needs....... Unfortunatly, this creates tension and anxiety. You DO need an outlet to let it all out. So you DO THAT while YOU are in control.

"ONSTAGE".......... Where you can PERFORM, safe from harm. You can get the attention and ACCEPTANCE that we all desire as human beings.  You can let yourself  be free...."FLY" ! IE.... PeterPan, Captain EO, finding solace in TREES, on a rollercoaster all places where you can elevate yourself to another "plane"...away from scrutiny.  Many, will NOT understand and will be quick to condemn you, but this is your coping mechanism and we are all creatures of HABIT.
 

Despite all of his internal pain......
I'm comforted in that, Michael's "children".... brought him a great deal of "JOY" .   He was finally surrounded by people (his kids), who would'nt JUDGE him.  Who LOVED HIM, unconditionally. More, to-the-point...
I really believe he had a "physical" NEED to be demonstrative and express his L.O.V.E.


To me......Diana's SILENCE in all of this, "speaks" VOLUMES!  No doubt, she knows "something."   :mrgreen:


Wherever MJ is, I truly hope he is finally able to do what is right, for HIMSELF.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 04, 2010, 11:43:43 PM
You wrapped that up and put a bow on it. I have been trying to do so for some time but didn't. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Damn..you're good! :lol:

Allow me to add...she saw the potential in him and defnitely wanted "first dibs".  

Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
I suspect that after The Wiz wrapped up, THAT'S when the "shift" in their relationship may have happened (if not, DURING).  She planted the seed, by getting him to feel dependant on her (given their history).  Then, used his naivety to her advantage.  

I'm not meaning to be insensitive. I DO think that she cared for him....to an extent, but perhaps, viewed MJ as a challenge as he got older.   When the reality of the situation (his falling for her) became too much for her to deal with, she checked out (emotionally) and left him "holding the bag."   I'm thinking that, after everything he went through in youth, he wanted a chance at NORMALCY and hoped that she could provide that.  She "knew" him better than probably ANYONE.  They spent a LOT of time together (even more-so, doing The Wiz.).  It's a proven "fact" that proximity is a major factor in attraction (hence, prevalence of OFFICE "affairs").

Quote
# Proximity

The closer two people live to each other the more likely it is for them to like one another. Research has shown that the best single predictor of whether two people are friends is how far apart they live. This idea leads into the next one.
(self-explanatory)

# Familiarity

One of the major reasons proximity creates liking is that it increases familiarity. Generally speaking, the more a person interacts with another person, the more attraction builds between them.
(Years of getting to "know" each other, learning each others HABITS, etc)

# Similarity

This idea does not say that soccer players will marry soccer players. Instead, it makes claims that those interested in sports are attracted to those interested in sports. Statistics show that people who pair off do so according to similarities in race, age, religion, education, physical characteristics, and other general characteristics.

They're BOTH "Celebrities"..... understand Show Business)




She was his last attempt at finding LOVE, TRUST and SECURITY (in his mind) and when she "rejected" him....it was like a DAGGER to the heart.

In my opinion..... I think that his androgyny could have been linked to HIS feelings of (PERCEIVED) "inadequacy."  IE...he didn't feel 100% confident in his manliness (whatever THAT means).  However, when he performs ONSTAGE, he becomes another person.  He's able to convey CONFIDANCE, SENSUALITY, etc...In other words, he's "FREE" to be who he is!

I really think that his onstage persona IS who MJ IS. You can't "fake" the expressiveness, magnetism that he obviously HAS onstage.  He didn't have to "try", it just can naturally, like a weight being "lifted" off of him.  HE was in "control".

If you watch the making of the "Ghosts" video, WATCH the part where he's transformed into The Mayor and he's joking around with the person who was there.   It's AMAZING and ironic....  he feels able to be "himself", while disguised as someone else.  Watch his body language and the way he speaks, he is not guarded, cautious or anything.  He's joking around and seems very comfortable in his own skin (oxymoron).  ;)  In THAT context.

Listen to how his voice deepens , also pay attn. to WHAT HE'S SAYING starting at 6:40 - 7:00
[youtube:1gih72pg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-_V3d2I3Q[/youtube:1gih72pg]


I said all of that, to say that....
Diana Ross played a major part in who MJ, became.

Sorry, this has turned into  "The Psychology of Michael Jackson" ......dissertation. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MSMJFANFOREVER

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 05, 2010, 12:06:28 AM
Quote
GirlSaturday  

Allow me to add...she saw the potential in him and defnitely wanted "first dibs".  

 :lol:  :lol:
I agree, wholeheartedly!  I'll give her a "reprieve" on THAT factor, 'cause I DAMN SURE would've thought the same thing!

 Only difference would've been that afterwards....
 I would've SCOOPED his ass up, married him, MOVED out of the U.S. and had a "gang" of kids!


Furthermore, she'd have to have a "screw" loose to NOT get with him, considering the SCALE of his "equipment."  

Maybe she did'nt "GET IT", after all....... :lol: :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

this1crazygirl

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 05, 2010, 01:20:20 AM
MSMJFANFOREVER  -- I love that siggy pic!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 05, 2010, 07:29:15 AM
Quote
WOW! That is too much to take in! I've never had anyone tell me what to do like that or tell me what I am allowed to say or not to say. I'm sorry, but Michael Jackson isn't your sweet little church boy. All you need to see is the file from the trial to see his list of Porn magazines. All of them he said were his with his fingerprints on them, and the porn sites he was registered for...LOL! As for Dianna Ross being the saint that you think she is...I guess that is why she had an affair with Barry Gordy and had his LOVE CHILD while she was married....because she is a saint and never slept around. There is a recurring theme with some of his songs and I am just calling them as I see them. You want to pretend MJ is a choir boy and an angel...go right ahead, but I believe him to be more on the NORMAL side of humanity... and as a free person with a brain of my own, I have every right to post what I see without someone telling me not to. Maybe you should go watch some concert footage of MJ practically masturbating himself on stage and then come back and tell me how much of a saint he is, because the last time I looked, masturbation is pretty much a one way ticket to the hell fire in Christianity. On an end note...I will say what I want when I want...If you don't like it...I offer you this advice...DONT READ IT!

LOL  :lol:  And the titles of some of that porn are just HILARIOUS!  :lol: For some odd reason I find all of that very sexy, Michael with his porn...  :oops: Oh and Michael on stage, YUM! As I said in my previous post we're only speculating and I see no harm in that. We don't have to agree and people are free to say what they want. None of us are dissing Michael. The more I get to know about Michael the more I love him and I bet there are many of you that feel the same. I too feel that there must have been another side to Michael that we never got to see, maybe a tiny bit in his home videos. I definitely believe Michael loved Diana a lot probably still does but I have to say that I loved MIchael with Lmp. They looked so beautiful together and Michael seemed so happy at that time  :) I know a lot of people don't like her but I can't help but smiling whenever I see a video clip with them together.

Michael himself sang that he's "only human" and what a beautiful human being he is!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 05, 2010, 12:49:56 PM
Quote from: "MSMJFANFOREVER"
I suspect that after The Wiz wrapped up, THAT'S when the "shift" in their relationship may have happened (if not, DURING).  She planted the seed, by getting him to feel dependant on her (given their history).  Then, used his naivety to her advantage.  

I'm not meaning to be insensitive. I DO think that she cared for him....to an extent, but perhaps, viewed MJ as a challenge as he got older.   When the reality of the situation (his falling for her) became too much for her to deal with, she checked out (emotionally) and left him "holding the bag."   I'm thinking that, after everything he went through in youth, he wanted a chance at NORMALCY and hoped that she could provide that.  She "knew" him better than probably ANYONE.  They spent a LOT of time together (even more-so, doing The Wiz.).  It's a proven "fact" that proximity is a major factor in attraction (hence, prevalence of OFFICE "affairs").

Quote
# Proximity

The closer two people live to each other the more likely it is for them to like one another. Research has shown that the best single predictor of whether two people are friends is how far apart they live. This idea leads into the next one.
(self-explanatory)

# Familiarity

One of the major reasons proximity creates liking is that it increases familiarity. Generally speaking, the more a person interacts with another person, the more attraction builds between them.
(Years of getting to "know" each other, learning each others HABITS, etc)

# Similarity

This idea does not say that soccer players will marry soccer players. Instead, it makes claims that those interested in sports are attracted to those interested in sports. Statistics show that people who pair off do so according to similarities in race, age, religion, education, physical characteristics, and other general characteristics.

They're BOTH "Celebrities"..... understand Show Business)




She was his last attempt at finding LOVE, TRUST and SECURITY (in his mind) and when she "rejected" him....it was like a DAGGER to the heart.

In my opinion..... I think that his androgyny could have been linked to HIS feelings of (PERCEIVED) "inadequacy."  IE...he didn't feel 100% confident in his manliness (whatever THAT means).  However, when he performs ONSTAGE, he becomes another person.  He's able to convey CONFIDANCE, SENSUALITY, etc...In other words, he's "FREE" to be who he is!

I really think that his onstage persona IS who MJ IS. You can't "fake" the expressiveness, magnetism that he obviously HAS onstage.  He didn't have to "try", it just can naturally, like a weight being "lifted" off of him.  HE was in "control".

If you watch the making of the "Ghosts" video, WATCH the part where he's transformed into The Mayor and he's joking around with the person who was there.   It's AMAZING and ironic....  he feels able to be "himself", while disguised as someone else.  Watch his body language and the way he speaks, he is not guarded, cautious or anything.  He's joking around and seems very comfortable in his own skin (oxymoron).  ;)  In THAT context.

Listen to how his voice deepens , also pay attn. to WHAT HE'S SAYING starting at 6:40 - 7:00
[youtube:2qfirxe8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-_V3d2I3Q[/youtube:2qfirxe8]


I said all of that, to say that....
Diana Ross played a major part in who MJ, became.

Sorry, this has turned into  "The Psychology of Michael Jackson" ......dissertation. :D
Take a look starting at 9:13...LOL!  He splashes the guy with the water bottle and then runs!  Ha ha ha ha
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Its her

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 05, 2010, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: "Willa"
Hi there It's Her.  Your points are well taken.  I wonder if the song "Speechless" was about Diana Ross.  It would be appropriate if it were.  She is a terrific lady. :)

 Hi again, Willa,

I forgot to tell you which song I do think MJ wrote which could be about his feelings for Diana Ross. He  tried to throw people off her trail, but I have a picture of him holding her, maybe months AFTER the song became a hit, and he's SO smitten in love with her, it HURTS (ME :roll: !!!).

It is: I Just Can't Stop Loving You.

This is one of the most beautiful  :cry:  8-) HEART songs EVER written by anyone. It is just dripping with love. Desperate, unbelievably sweet love. I can feel him feeling it.   :(  :(  :(  
 
Someone asked him if he wrote OR even sang it with someone  ;) Specific in mind, and he said he did NOT write it thinking of anyone (would YOU admit it, that the object of your affection may be mostly in your mind, while your heart is still raw?).

But, he said sometimes he has thought of "someone", while singing it.(probably me :o ...yeah, that's who...)

THERE you go! :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Willa

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 06, 2010, 12:22:48 AM
It's Her wrote:
"I forgot to tell you which song I do think MJ wrote which could be about his feelings for Diana Ross. He tried to throw people off her trail, but I have a picture of him holding her, maybe months AFTER the song became a hit, and he's SO smitten in love with her, it HURTS (ME  !!!).

It is: I Just Can't Stop Loving You."

It's too bad the two of them couldn't get together if he loved her that much.  I think that back in the 80's it wasn't accepted for an older woman and a younger man to be together.  Today it would be O.K. (look at Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher).  Michael was a pioneer in so many ways, particularly with respect to race.  I wish he could have had the love he deserved.

BTW, can you post that pic?

It makes sense that "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" is about Diana Ross.  That song was on the Off the Wall album, right at the time when he was in love with her.  

Now, I just know that many of his other songs were about me, of course. :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 06, 2010, 05:51:44 PM
Quote from: "Willa"
It's Her wrote:
"I forgot to tell you which song I do think MJ wrote which could be about his feelings for Diana Ross. He tried to throw people off her trail, but I have a picture of him holding her, maybe months AFTER the song became a hit, and he's SO smitten in love with her, it HURTS (ME  !!!).

It is: I Just Can't Stop Loving You."

It's too bad the two of them couldn't get together if he loved her that much.  I think that back in the 80's it wasn't accepted for an older woman and a younger man to be together.  Today it would be O.K. (look at Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher).  Michael was a pioneer in so many ways, particularly with respect to race.  I wish he could have had the love he deserved.

BTW, can you post that pic?

It makes sense that "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" is about Diana Ross.  That song was on the Off the Wall album, right at the time when he was in love with her.  

Now, I just know that many of his other songs were about me, of course. :lol:

Wasn't that song on the Bad album and not on Off the Wall? But of course he could still have been in love with her and written the song a bit later...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Its her

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 08, 2010, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: "Willa"
It's Her wrote:
"I forgot to tell you which song I do think MJ wrote which could be about his feelings for Diana Ross. He tried to throw people off her trail, but I have a picture of him holding her, maybe months AFTER the song became a hit, and he's SO smitten in love with her, it HURTS (ME  !!!).

It is: I Just Can't Stop Loving You."

It's too bad the two of them couldn't get together if he loved her that much.  I think that back in the 80's it wasn't accepted for an older woman and a younger man to be together.  Today it would be O.K. (look at Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher).  Michael was a pioneer in so many ways, particularly with respect to race.  I wish he could have had the love he deserved.

BTW, can you post that pic?


It makes sense that "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" is about Diana Ross.  That song was on the Off the Wall album, right at the time when he was in love with her.  

Now, I just know that many of his other songs were about me, of course. :lol:


I'll have to scan it or find it online some place. I will look around. My copy has tears all over it ;)  :oops:  and is kind of wrinkly. Man, I would have given everything to have inspired that look while holding me, later. THIS WAS BEFORE HE REALIZED MEN DON'T DO THAT KIND OF THING---WEAR YOUR HEART ON YOUR FACE.  :D  :D

And they really DON'T, sillies.  They got girl bait in their hearts and are TOO COOL to whip it out. I have NEVER seen any guy so much in love EVER.  I do mean EVER, NEVER, EVER. There are other ways to tell if they love you, but this is KILLER.

People waste SO much time being cool instead of showing what's inside. So what if you get stomped a few times? Maybe the guy who picks you up and dusts you off will be your hero. :D  

HE WAS PROBABLY 29 OR 30, BUT HE WAS SUCH A SWEET  :cry: INNOCENT MAN-CHILD. And I was totally gutless, and did NOT even know what that look meant, I was so shy  :x and clueless.  :x  It wouldn't have done any good to be nearby him,then.

It is true, youth is wasted on the young.

Now, I am not into groveling, but, I'll DO that part if he'll do "The LOOK"!! (gotta MEAN it, most sincerely, too!)

About D.R. and MJ...I think she kicked herself EVERY DAY for taking him in when he was a baby-doll.  Her cougar instincts could have been flashing, but she just couldn't get past that angelic little (LOOKED like ) 8 year old face, even after he became grown. She's a Mommy type first, God Bless her!(despite what all the nasty girls here, say). :roll:
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Offline msteetee34

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: March 08, 2010, 08:47:46 PM
Dang MJ was fine on that video clip with Diana Ross.  That was cute how they were holding hands.  The only time MJ let go of her hand is when she shook hands with Regis(who I didn't recognize at first because he's so young here.)  It's funny because she is the bigger star at this point in time.  This is when he was first emerging as a solo artist.  I like when he ask is this your escort for the night and she's like absolutely this is my date and she kiss MJ.  You can tell he's all proud and excited to be in her company.  He's like Diana's arm candy for the night.  Regis barely talks to MJ during the interview but then he's like thanks Michael and MJ gives him and smile but when he walks off he kinda have like a whatever dude look on his face.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


 

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