Dirty Diana

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mykidsmum

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Dirty Diana

  • on: February 24, 2010, 10:11:05 PM
Hi everyone, I know lots of people won't agree with me and MJ himself said that this song is about certain types of fans, but I believe this song is about Diana Ross.
was doing some hunting online today and came across a woman named Antoinette Holmes (google her name to see her story) she was one of the presidents of the first J5 fan club and often baby sat the group.  It was at a hotel when she was babysitting that a 10 year old MJ confided in her that he was having sex with his older "girlfriend"  This woman said the person was a huge celebrity and she didn't name her...I think we all know who it was... (for what it is worth, I give Diana credit, I don't think she was sleeping with a 10 year old, but I think little Mike just wanted to seem cool about the LOVE of his life) any way, I found many things about their relationship...that MJ and Diana were supposed to get married when MJ was 18 but Diana pulled out of that.  There is a new biography out about Diana.  It says that Diana basically slept her way to the top.  We all know Diana had an affair with Barry Gordy and many others in the line.  There is a rumour that Diana didn't go to MJ's funeral because she and MJ's mother are in a feud.  I think Katherine is mad at her from getting involved with MJ at such a young age.  Any way, stay with me...here are they lyrics and I will tell you how they fit Diana:

You'll never make me stay
So take your weight off of me
I know your every move
So won't you just let me be
this song is written around the time that MJ was hurt that Diana didn't stick to the plan to get married when MJ turned 18 and he is still upset about it and wants to leave, he knows her every move now, how she contrives to make him believe that he is the one
I've been here times before
he's been with her and in the position he is in with her many times, the position of believing the things she says
But I was to blind to see
That you seduce every man
he now can see how she has slept with many men and worked her way up, she managed seducing MJ too at a young age, not saying it was sexual but she got his affections
This time you won't seduce me
He's realized now that she has seduced him in the past and this time is aware of it and isn't going to allow it to happen this time

She's saying that's ok
Hey baby do what you please
this is a great section of the song...this is Diana's reaction to his anger about how she led him along, she is saying, no big deal, say and do what you want, I don't care but...
I have the stuff the you want
I am the thing that you need
we all know how MJ formed a bond with Diana early on to a point where he was in love with her and really needed her, she was someone who was giving him the affection and love he needed and craved

She looked me deep in the eyes
She's touchin' me so to start
She says there's no turnin' back
they have already gone too far, they are too into each other and there is no going back to how things used to be or that she isn't going back or turning back to the promise she made him, she has gone beyond that silly promise that MJ took so seriously and thought would happen
She trapped me in her heart
this is so expressive of MJ and says so much.  She trapped MJ in her heart.  Meaning that at an early age MJ was devoted to her and was unable to look at anyone else and really was looking forward to being 18.  He was "TRAPPED" by her and this song arises out of resentment that he wasted his time and years on something that wasn't going to be

Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, no
Dirty Diana
Let me be!
you crossed me, you didn't keep your word, i wasted my life loving you, why did you do this to me...just leave me alone in my pain...let me be!  let me get over you!

Oh no...
Oh no...
Oh no...

She likes the boys in the band
She knows when they come to town
Every musician's fan after the
curtain comes down
She waits at backstage doors
For those who have prestige
Who promise fortune and fame
A life that's so carefree
now this is the section that people say is definitely about a groupie, but, take it like this...MJ realized that she sleeps around, she likes musicians who can further her career.  she knows and waits for the ones who have prestige and promise what she wants...she stabbed the supremes in the back to get to the top as well, MJ is finally becoming aware of what she does, I think that it is with age and growing up that he sees these things now and has no problem degrading her, throwing it in her face that this is all she really is, just this person who screws around to get to the top and I think he spits this out at her to hurt her.

She's says that's ok
Hey baby do what you want
I'll be your night lovin' thing
I'll be the freak you can taunt
And I don't care what you say
I want to go too far
I'll be your everything
If you make me a star
here, I don't think this is what she is saying to MJ...I think this relates to the above verse.  I think this is what she is saying to the men who can get her to the top. MJ is giving us a narrative of what he has learned about her I think he is mocking her and telling her what he knows about her... The verse "i want to go to far" could mean far as in career wise...
Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, no
Dirty Diana...
Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, nah
Dirty Diana, no
Dirty Diana...
Diana!
Diana!
Dirty Diana!
It's Dia...aa...aa...ana!

She said I have to go home
'Cause I'me real tired you see
this verse shows it's the end of the argument, the confrontation, there is nothing more to argue about, she is not apologizing and everyone is just tired...she needs to go home.
But I hate sleppin' alone
Why don't you come with me
now despite everything that went on in the above, the broken promise of a future, MJ finding out she used him and seduced him into loving her, his realization that she slept around...she doesn't want to let go and wants to keep things how they are...she is discounting MJ's feelings

I said my baby's at home
now, baby doesn't have to mean a girlfriend.  Everyone knows that MJ lived at home until he was almost 30.  The song wanna be starting something is about his sister LaToya and the problems she was having with her brother's wives, in the song he calls her his baby.  The sisters played girlfriends of the brothers in the Jacksons comedy show they did and I think LaToya even played a love interest of MJ in a video (say say say i think) so it's no secret to make his song marketable for the public and fans, he's not gonna say my sister or my mother...LOL!
She's probably worried tonight
this could me LaToya, they had a very close relationship, or it could be his mother.
I didn't call on the phone to
Say that I'm alright

Diana walked up to me,
She said I'm all yours tonight
again, she sees that MJ isn't playing her game anymore and she is in danger of losing him so like lots of women who are about to get the boot, they try to hold on.
At that I ran to the phone
he ran because he want's to get out of the situation he still loves her and knows it will be so easy for her to say something to get him back so he runs before her words get to him and he caves and goes with her
Sayin' baby I'm alright
I said but unlock the door.
Because I forgot the key.
She said he's not coming back
Because he's sleeping with me
now, this could mean a few things...If Kate didn't know about the extent of the relationship between Diana and MJ and MJ has decided this is the end, Diana is grasping at straws and takes this opportune moment to say...oh yeah...I'm gonna tell your mother our little secret!  Also it is rumored that Kate was jealous of the time that MJ lived with MJ and never got over the fact that MJ turned to Diana instead of her.  Kate saw Diana as a replacement mother figure and here Diana is finally spilling the beans and saying..."oh yeah, you thought it was a mother son relationship...ha ha...he's sleeping with me, he's not coming back home to you to cry.  She sees that he is serious and he's not gonna accept a casual relationship and wants it to end...The realization makes her spill their secret.  Also, MJ has spoken about how relationships and things that happen in them are not spoken about in his family and that he would be so embarassed to even have his mother at his wedding.  I see this also as a last jab, she embarasses MJ...
This is just like a typical break up scene... The one being accused of sleeping around plays it off...no big deal...ok, your upset, lets go home now and things will be better in the morning...what? your not coming back?  Fine!  Do whatever you want, see if I care...but I can take care of you tonight, we can cuddle and ...Fine...you don't want me anymore...F-you!  Hey!  MOM!  Your little boy here...he's not so little...ha ha ha...now go home to mommy!  (that was my version of Dirty Diana in a nutshell...LOL)

Ok guys, that is why I think the song is about Diana...LOL  enjoy.


« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 10:54:01 PM by mykidsmum »

Offline CrazyBanana

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 10:29:53 PM
hmmm, wow!
a lot to take in lol! MJ saying he ha sex at 10! im sorry but when I was 10 I didnt know what sex is, well maybe im a lil slow but wow lol
ok so do you think he was talking about diana ross in the tapes of his phone calls with Glenda or who ever, he says something about giving Diana money and stuff, and I think he says something about he knew she did something, like she cheateded on him or something
I always thought the Diana from those tapes was dirty diana but did not think at all it could be Diana ross...
but wouldnt you think that would be the stop of their relationship? he did state he was in love with her in a magazine interview.
btw, I really enjoy your posts! the rare video of MJ that you posted has got to be my fav. the one where he calls Randy ugly LOL! and the clown photos! thanks a lot 4 those, what els.... I could go on  and on! Thanks a lot 4 all your efforts and all your posts! I love them ! <3
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 10:45:36 PM
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
hmmm, wow!
a lot to take in lol! MJ saying he ha sex at 10! im sorry but when I was 10 I didnt know what sex is, well maybe im a lil slow but wow lol
ok so do you think he was talking about diana ross in the tapes of his phone calls with Glenda or who ever, he says something about giving Diana money and stuff, and I think he says something about he knew she did something, like she cheateded on him or something
I always thought the Diana from those tapes was dirty diana but did not think at all it could be Diana ross...
but wouldnt you think that would be the stop of their relationship? he did state he was in love with her in a magazine interview.
btw, I really enjoy your posts! the rare video of MJ that you posted has got to be my fav. the one where he calls Randy ugly LOL! and the clown photos! thanks a lot 4 those, what els.... I could go on  and on! Thanks a lot 4 all your efforts and all your posts! I love them ! <3
aww thanks, I just hope you were never on the end of one of my tirades...LOL!  Any way, I don't believe that MJ had sex at 10, I was only quoting what one woman said that he said.  I think he was just trying to be a big shot but I do believe he loved Diana at age 10.  I have no doubt that something happend between them before he turned 18.  I still think he loves her...I don't think he ever stopped, but I think this song was written in anger of the realization that she wasn't the pure lady he thought she was and the promise of marrying him when he turned 18 was just a silly dream.  As for the Glenda tapes...Please, don't believe them.  I know that they show a side to MJ that few have seen but I will tell you, that is NOT MJ.  Fans want it to be MJ so bad.  I will tell you one thing you can listen to to confirm that it is not MJ...in the tapes, "MJ" starts telling Glenda about his schedule of all the places he has to be...These are all places MJ has been many many if not HUNDREDS of times before.  These are all names of places even I have heard of...In the tapes...he can't even say the names and has to spell them...not only that but there is a part where "MJ" SPEAKS a line from his song and tells glenda he will make her a tape...he attepts a few quiet shy bars of the song and then thats when he says, "I'll make you a tape of some songs."  Everyone knows MJ was not afraid to sing here and there...there is a tape of him in his home singing with the kids doing a puzzle, a tape of him walking and singing and greeting fans...he always goes into song.  There is a tape of him singing to Elizabeth on the phone and siging another BeGees song with his friend Bret Ratner...That is what he does...he doesn't sing on the tape because the person trying to pretend to be MJ can't sing...Please, there are other things too, but don't believe the tapes...Read the Rabbi book, there is more juicy stuff in there than on those dumb glenda tapes.  Thanks again for what you said about my posts.  I'm always looking for neat things. Here is a couple for you...a real tape of MJ's voice and a cute other one I found...
[youtube:3oslymfb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au7JBDOPkC4&feature=related[/youtube:3oslymfb]
[youtube:3oslymfb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH3AVtzJvv8&feature=related[/youtube:3oslymfb]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline wilds

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 10:57:20 PM
I kinda believe it! I was talking with a fan on youtube who worked for motown back in the day and they told me all kind of stuff about Diana Ross - detailed juicyness. She was very "career oriented". She did indeed love Mikey but she was a bit self absorbed. I LOVE Diana Ross and was shocked to hear some of this stuff but then again, we are all human and have our flaws. And I don't believe Michael was actually having sex at 10 either, he was exposed to a lot of things a child shouldn't be exposed to because he was out there on the road with his father and older brothers who were doing their thing - if ya know what I mean. This is all still shocking to me though!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
Quote from: "wilds"
I kinda believe it! I was talking with a fan on youtube who worked for motown back in the day and they told me all kind of stuff about Diana Ross - detailed juicyness. She was very "career oriented". She did indeed love Mikey but she was a bit self absorbed. I LOVE Diana Ross and was shocked to hear some of this stuff but then again, we are all human and have our flaws. And I don't believe Michael was actually having sex at 10 either, he was exposed to a lot of things a child shouldn't be exposed to because he was out there on the road with his father and older brothers who were doing their thing - if ya know what I mean. This is all still shocking to me though!
ooh...anything on Diana and MJ?  What can you spill about Diana?  I still lover her no matter what too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CrazyBanana

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 11:21:22 PM
Thanks a lot! the first vid is kinda sad :(
and the glenda tapes, I thought they were fake when I first heard them, but ppl started saying MJ put them out there blah blah blah and then i though the only ones i could hear were him and the transcripts are fake..
I should always go with what my hearts tells me !
and what i thought was weird is a lot of what he said he also said in the book so anyone could have made that!
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Offline wilds

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 11:34:44 PM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "wilds"
I kinda believe it! I was talking with a fan on youtube who worked for motown back in the day and they told me all kind of stuff about Diana Ross - detailed juicyness. She was very "career oriented". She did indeed love Mikey but she was a bit self absorbed. I LOVE Diana Ross and was shocked to hear some of this stuff but then again, we are all human and have our flaws. And I don't believe Michael was actually having sex at 10 either, he was exposed to a lot of things a child shouldn't be exposed to because he was out there on the road with his father and older brothers who were doing their thing - if ya know what I mean. This is all still shocking to me though!
ooh...anything on Diana and MJ?  What can you spill about Diana?  I still lover her no matter what too.
I'm going to pm you one of the messages I recieved from my friend because it is raw LOL! I don't want to place it here in the public forum. Anyone else who wants to read it can pm me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 24, 2010, 11:41:05 PM
Quote from: "wilds"
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "wilds"
I kinda believe it! I was talking with a fan on youtube who worked for motown back in the day and they told me all kind of stuff about Diana Ross - detailed juicyness. She was very "career oriented". She did indeed love Mikey but she was a bit self absorbed. I LOVE Diana Ross and was shocked to hear some of this stuff but then again, we are all human and have our flaws. And I don't believe Michael was actually having sex at 10 either, he was exposed to a lot of things a child shouldn't be exposed to because he was out there on the road with his father and older brothers who were doing their thing - if ya know what I mean. This is all still shocking to me though!
ooh...anything on Diana and MJ?  What can you spill about Diana?  I still lover her no matter what too.
I'm going to pm you one of the messages I recieved from my friend because it is raw LOL! I don't want to place it here in the public forum. Anyone else who wants to read it can pm me.
ohh...i have a message!  I just noticed!  LOL  BRB!
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Offline PinkTopaz

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 12:08:08 AM
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
hmmm, wow!
a lot to take in lol! MJ saying he ha sex at 10! im sorry but when I was 10 I didnt know what sex is, well maybe im a lil slow but wow lol
ok so do you think he was talking about diana ross in the tapes of his phone calls with Glenda or who ever, he says something about giving Diana money and stuff, and I think he says something about he knew she did something, like she cheateded on him or something
I always thought the Diana from those tapes was dirty diana but did not think at all it could be Diana ross...
but wouldnt you think that would be the stop of their relationship? he did state he was in love with her in a magazine interview.
btw, I really enjoy your posts! the rare video of MJ that you posted has got to be my fav. the one where he calls Randy ugly LOL! and the clown photos! thanks a lot 4 those, what els.... I could go on  and on! Thanks a lot 4 all your efforts and all your posts! I love them ! <3
aww thanks, I just hope you were never on the end of one of my tirades...LOL!  Any way, I don't believe that MJ had sex at 10, I was only quoting what one woman said that he said.  I think he was just trying to be a big shot but I do believe he loved Diana at age 10.  I have no doubt that something happend between them before he turned 18.  I still think he loves her...I don't think he ever stopped, but I think this song was written in anger of the realization that she wasn't the pure lady he thought she was and the promise of marrying him when he turned 18 was just a silly dream.  As for the Glenda tapes...Please, don't believe them.  I know that they show a side to MJ that few have seen but I will tell you, that is NOT MJ.  Fans want it to be MJ so bad.  I will tell you one thing you can listen to to confirm that it is not MJ...in the tapes, "MJ" starts telling Glenda about his schedule of all the places he has to be...These are all places MJ has been many many if not HUNDREDS of times before.  These are all names of places even I have heard of...In the tapes...he can't even say the names and has to spell them...not only that but there is a part where "MJ" SPEAKS a line from his song and tells glenda he will make her a tape...he attepts a few quiet shy bars of the song and then thats when he says, "I'll make you a tape of some songs."  Everyone knows MJ was not afraid to sing here and there...there is a tape of him in his home singing with the kids doing a puzzle, a tape of him walking and singing and greeting fans...he always goes into song.  There is a tape of him singing to Elizabeth on the phone and siging another BeGees song with his friend Bret Ratner...That is what he does...he doesn't sing on the tape because the person trying to pretend to be MJ can't sing...Please, there are other things too, but don't believe the tapes...Read the Rabbi book, there is more juicy stuff in there than on those dumb glenda tapes.  Thanks again for what you said about my posts.  I'm always looking for neat things. Here is a couple for you...a real tape of MJ's voice and a cute other one I found...
[youtube:3eahk17v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au7JBDOPkC4&feature=related[/youtube:3eahk17v]
[youtube:3eahk17v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH3AVtzJvv8&feature=related[/youtube:3eahk17v]
I disagree, I believe the Glenda tapes are really him. I know opinions vary on this but most fans I've seen know that it's him and it's not by any means only the silly ones. They've been out since 2005, I've seen discussions on them from then on the KOP board- I think they had something to do with the trial..

Anyhoo, OMG, MKM, that's what I always thought! If it were about groupies it could've been ANY chick name like Dirty Jen or Dirty Dee-Dee or even Dirty Kandy- but it's DIANA! Moment I saw that title when I first became a fan I was like "coincidence I think not", LOL. The fans that argue it isn't- do they honestly believe MJ would go on national TV or something and say "Oh yeah, 'Dirty Diana' is Diana Ross"? Hell no he wouldn't, they're crazy! Your breakdown of the lyrics made complete sense, good work! I agree that she is one of the loves of his life, I bet he still has feelings deep down somewhere this very moment..! I love his little 10-year old attitude telling that lady that he's getting it on.. Haha, already a playah at age 10..!
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Offline virgo75

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 12:21:56 AM
GREAT breakdown of the lyrics MKM!

I kinda thought it could be about Diana before, but I also wondered about the "groupie" aspect of it.  Because even though I know he's witnessed the groupie scene since he was a baby, he seemed to be more compassionate about them.  Like he felt bad for them knowing that they were just gonna be used.  Dirty Diana sounds more like someone he's angry with.

Like you, I also never believed that those "tapes" were him.
Sure there were rumors about it being from the trials, but where is the proof?
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Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 09:41:13 AM
Great breakdown of the lyrics. I have always believed that Miss Ross popped his cherry. I don't think that it happened when he was a kid but when he was a young adult as they worked together on the Wiz. They filmed the movie in New York and it was the first time that he was away from the family too. There are  photos  showing them together during that time hanging out all of the time and partying together. Over the years there have been  several public appearances where Michael looked absolutely lovestruck while in her presence. He didn't look at her like she was just  a friend or big sister. There is a special way that a man looks at a woman that he loves and is intimate with.  Plus it has long been discussed how Miss Ross slept her way to the top. She probably jumped at the chance to teach  Michael Jackson,  Lucky bitch... :lol:
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Offline doreentbird

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 10:25:29 AM
This actually makes alot of sense..hmm...

That brings me to his will..why the hell would he trust this woman with taking care of his kids???She hasn't said jack sh..t either since all this happened.

Damn...Michael getting it on at 10? Anything is possible. Especially since him and his brothers were exposed to all that sexuality in the strip joints.
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Offline Nakiska

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
First of all, great post.  :D
Second, the glenda tapes are real imo. They were used for the trial. There is no way that it isnt Michael's voice.
Glenda's husband recorded them without their persmission cause he thought they were having an affair. In those tapes Michael clearly says that it took him YEARS to get over Diana and that she left him so crazy in love, but the commitment of their relationship was a fantasy of his, meaning that she didnt want any commitment and he wanted. There is a time when he says to Glenda: ''I know for a fact that she was fooling around''. That would explain the anger in the song's lirycs.
Also I've heard many peolple saying that when Diana got married she asked Michael to lead her to the church and Michael got PISSED OFF and didnt attended the wedding lol
Thirs, it is soooo obvious in some videos the love he feels for her. Its heartbreaking really.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: "Nakiska"
First of all, great post.  :D
Second, the glenda tapes are real imo. They were used for the trial. There is no way that it isnt Michael's voice.
Glenda's husband recorded them without their persmission cause he thought they were having an affair. In those tapes Michael clearly says that it took him YEARS to get over Diana and that she left him so crazy in love, but the commitment of their relationship was a fantasy of his, meaning that she didnt want any commitment and he wanted. There is a time when he says to Glenda: ''I know for a fact that she was fooling around''. That would explain the anger in the song's lirycs.
Also I've heard many peolple saying that when Diana got married she asked Michael to lead her to the church and Michael got PISSED OFF and didnt attended the wedding lol
Thirs, it is soooo obvious in some videos the love he feels for her. Its heartbreaking really.
Nakiska, thanks for your view...they were not played at the trial.  A fan played them OUTSIDE of the courthouse on a boom box.  Please believe me when I tell you these tapes are not MIchael Jackson.  I have nothing against what is in the tapes, no objection, he said more private things in the Rabbi tapes and book, more sexual things and revealing things and I love those tapes and book but I am just telling you, those are NOT MJ.  I may not know everything but this I know.  Also, everyone...I found an interview that is so amazing...enjoy
[youtube:g4875ymi]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkOxbSsRmbM&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/youtube:g4875ymi]
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Offline Nakiska

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 03:56:44 PM
oh, ok  :)
But can you tell me why are you so sure it is not him?
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Offline liegi

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 04:09:53 PM
I'm from Detroit originally.  When I was doing my student teaching at Cass Tech in 1983, I met Diana Ross's English teacher!!!  He said that she was a good student, but that she was interested in music,music, music.  For her to have been at Cass Tech meant that she was a serious student (it was and still is, Detroit's premier public high school).  And she was really into her music.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 04:23:57 PM
Interesting... I like your breakdown of the lyrics and it might be very possible. We know Michael was hurt by Diana, have ya'll seen his facial expression at the AMA's? Heartbreaking  :(  I think it was in 1985, video's on YT. He also says it took him hell of a long time to get over Diana on the Glenda tapes (if they're real i.e.). As someone said above it might very well be about groupies but there's so much feeling (or a bit of anger even) in this song and I don't think groupies angered Michael. He seemes more like, compassionate with them, like that story about him telling a fan not to go with Jackie after a show... About the tapes, I've been in contact with MJ fans that have been researching Michael's life for almost 40 years and they say the tapes are real some of them actually own all the tapes! Of course I don't have to believe them but I see no reason to lie since I was the one approaching them. I'm not saying for sure they're real but neither can I be sure they're fake. Michael probably did not have sex at the age of 10 but he probably knew more about it than normal 10 year olds considering the life he lived (groupies around his brother, his dad, show biz etc.)

Btw I LOVE that song and when he does it live - *hyperventilating* then *faints* hot hot hot!  :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline VeryLittleSusie

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 05:32:09 PM
She's says that's ok
Hey baby do what you want
I'll be your night lovin' thing
I'll be the freak you can taunt
And I don't care what you say
I want to go too far
I'll be your everything
If you make me a star
here, I don't think this is what she is saying to MJ...I think this relates to the above verse. I think this is what she is saying to the men who can get her to the top. MJ is giving us a narrative of what he has learned about her I think he is mocking her and telling her what he knows about her... The verse "i want to go to far" could mean far as in career wise...


Actually I think this may refer to Diana! Once she realised Michael became powerful, more popular than anybody else on this earth, she might have come back to him with a wish of him makig her a star! Remember the song "Muscles"? Michael wrote it for her! It was supposed to revive her solo career.... God only knows what she might have offered him for that... Hee hee...
I also thought in the past that this song might have referred to groupies, but this verse of making sb a star... Groupies don't usually want to be stars... You've opened my eyes on it... And the choice of the name Diana is significant. If it wasn't about her, if she was an "angel" - he wouldn't probably like to hurt her with these lyrics... Unless, this was a little revenge... ;)
Hmmm... Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!! :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 05:40:42 PM
The choice of that name is what triggered me to think it was about Miss Ross. He could have easily used Denise, Donna, Delilah or any other name starting with a "D". Her marriage to Arne  Naes struck a nerve with MJ. The song may have been a little revenge on his part. I am not mad at him for it either.  One dirty deed deserves another. :lol:

Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
She's says that's ok
Hey baby do what you want
I'll be your night lovin' thing
I'll be the freak you can taunt
And I don't care what you say
I want to go too far
I'll be your everything
If you make me a star
here, I don't think this is what she is saying to MJ...I think this relates to the above verse. I think this is what she is saying to the men who can get her to the top. MJ is giving us a narrative of what he has learned about her I think he is mocking her and telling her what he knows about her... The verse "i want to go to far" could mean far as in career wise...


Actually I think this may refer to Diana! Once she realised Michael became powerful, more popular than anybody else on this earth, she might have come back to him with a wish of him makig her a star! Remember the song "Muscles"? Michael wrote it for her! It was supposed to revive her solo career.... God only knows what she might have offered him for that... Hee hee...
I also thought in the past that this song might have referred to groupies, but this verse of making sb a star... Groupies don't usually want to be stars... You've opened my eyes on it... And the choice of the name Diana is significant. If it wasn't about her, if she was an "angel" - he wouldn't probably like to hurt her with these lyrics... Unless, this was a little revenge... ;)
Hmmm... Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!! :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alovesmichael

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 06:24:17 PM
Quote
Michael always wrote songs about situations from his personal life...
I'd love to have him sit and tell about each of his songs. Piece by piece, line by line...!!!

Oh me too! Wouldn't that just be so so lovely!  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nathalia

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 07:54:42 PM
I just want to know how anyone in their right mind could break his heart like that.
I mean come on, he's such a beautiful person inside and out..
how could you turn that down?!
 :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 08:38:08 PM
since I posted this, this topic has been on my mind constantly and I have been going about my day thinking of things under this light.  This is what I came to realize...  I honestly think MJ never ever got over Diana.  I think this infatuation and love he had for her was much bigger than any of us thought or even wondered about and is quite possibly the root of all his loneliness and agony.  I red somewhere on line that MJ dedicated Remember The Time to Diana Ross.  I started there and went and listened to it again.  I felt like I was hearing the song again for the first time!  I was going to the store, riding in my car, thinking, thinking...I remembered reading on a blog little tributes MJ paid to Diana in his career.  One of them was from the video...Who Is It.  In this video when the "call girl" knocks on MJ's door, the butler tosses her all of her business cards with all her different aliases that MJ found.  One of the shots is a card with the name "Diana."  Thinking of this I listened to the song again and was astounded to realize poor MJ never ever got over Diana and even this song was about her.  Let me show you...

I Gave Her Money
i'm not sure if MJ ever gave Diana money, but he did give her a couple of songs for free, this made her some money, and also, she was his manager/producer for a while but MJ didn't like that situation and ended that, so that could be the meaning behind I gave her money.
I Gave Her Time
I Gave Her Everything
Inside One Heart Could Find
I Gave Her Passion
My Very Soul
I Gave Her Promises
And Secrets So Untold
this verse is self explanatory.  MJ said in various interviews that he shared secrets with Diana, they both shared them with each other

And She Promised Me Forever
And A Day We'd Live As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Life Anewagain, this goes back to the promise that Diana made to MJ about getting married when he turned 18.  I'm sure he promised him as a boy not really being serious, just playing with him, but I'm sure Michael took it very seriously
And She Promised Me In Secret
That She'd Love Me For All Time
it's no secret they spent lots of alone time together
It's A Promise So Untrue
Tell Me What Will I Do?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
to all of us he seems composed and no one would think this is bothering him, even to the point where he is fooling himself about how much this bothers him
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find In Someone Else?
it's no secret she married Arnie Nass...
(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mineat one time it was Barry Gordy
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother!I hope she never had a fling with another Jackson!
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take This Stuff No More
obviously this isn't the first time Diana has put him in this situation

I Am The Damned
I Am The Dead
I Am The Agony Inside
The Dying Head
This Is Injustice
Woe Unto Thee
I Pray This Punishment
Would Have Mercy On Me

And She Promised Me Forever
That We'd Live Our Life As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Love So True
It Seems That She Has Left Me
For Such Reasons Unexplained
I Need To Find The Truth
But See What Will I Do!

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
this line was difficult for me to decipher until it hit me...rumor has it that Diana married Arnie nass for his fortune...she was struggling at the time (it has been said) so with that in mind, I see Michael as using  the word will as representing her career...it has not brought you your fortune that you had counted on, like how some people count on wills, so you turned to desperate measures and this could be the reason Michael is looking for...it doesn't seem right...it's not right marrying someone for money, and it doesn't seem to matter....but it doesn't seem to matter to you that what you are doing isn't right. Meanwhile...
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
it's been said that Diana married Arnie and Michel didn't find out until he was invited to the wedding, which he didn't go to.  People have said that he was upset that Diana never introduced him or made it a point to tell him about Arnie...she didn't even write a letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother?
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

(Who Is It?)
It Is Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
To Me I'm Bothered
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seen Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GirlSaturday

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 08:58:43 PM
Deep. Now you have me scratching my head and wondering about this song. Technically it could still apply to MJ ...who's heart was broken after their failed romance. For decades , I had heard that a marriage promise was made to him and that the promise would be fulfilled when he turned 18.

BTW- did you read Moonwalker and the way that MJ described his relationship with Miss Ross? Bear in mind, these are his words that are used in the book and not some 2nd or 3rd hand source. He used quite a few adjectives to describe what she was to him including the word "lover" . My best friend is a man and we love one another like brother and sister. He would not use the word "lover" to describe what I am to him.  :lol:

Quote from: "mykidsmum"
since I posted this, this topic has been on my mind constantly and I have been going about my day thinking of things under this light.  This is what I came to realize...  I honestly think MJ never ever got over Diana.  I think this infatuation and love he had for her was much bigger than any of us thought or even wondered about and is quite possibly the root of all his loneliness and agony.  I red somewhere on line that MJ dedicated Remember The Time to Diana Ross.  I started there and went and listened to it again.  I felt like I was hearing the song again for the first time!  I was going to the store, riding in my car, thinking, thinking...I remembered reading on a blog little tributes MJ paid to Diana in his career.  One of them was from the video...Who Is It.  In this video when the "call girl" knocks on MJ's door, the butler tosses her all of her business cards with all her different aliases that MJ found.  One of the shots is a card with the name "Diana."  Thinking of this I listened to the song again and was astounded to realize poor MJ never ever got over Diana and even this song was about her.  Let me show you...

I Gave Her Money
i'm not sure if MJ ever gave Diana money, but he did give her a couple of songs for free, this made her some money, and also, she was his manager/producer for a while but MJ didn't like that situation and ended that, so that could be the meaning behind I gave her money.
I Gave Her Time
I Gave Her Everything
Inside One Heart Could Find
I Gave Her Passion
My Very Soul
I Gave Her Promises
And Secrets So Untold
this verse is self explanatory.  MJ said in various interviews that he shared secrets with Diana, they both shared them with each other

And She Promised Me Forever
And A Day We'd Live As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Life Anewagain, this goes back to the promise that Diana made to MJ about getting married when he turned 18.  I'm sure he promised him as a boy not really being serious, just playing with him, but I'm sure Michael took it very seriously
And She Promised Me In Secret
That She'd Love Me For All Time
it's no secret they spent lots of alone time together
It's A Promise So Untrue
Tell Me What Will I Do?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
to all of us he seems composed and no one would think this is bothering him, even to the point where he is fooling himself about how much this bothers him
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find In Someone Else?
it's no secret she married Arnie Nass...
(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mineat one time it was Barry Gordy
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother!I hope she never had a fling with another Jackson!
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take This Stuff No More
obviously this isn't the first time Diana has put him in this situation

I Am The Damned
I Am The Dead
I Am The Agony Inside
The Dying Head
This Is Injustice
Woe Unto Thee
I Pray This Punishment
Would Have Mercy On Me

And She Promised Me Forever
That We'd Live Our Life As One
We Made Our Vows
We'd Live A Love So True
It Seems That She Has Left Me
For Such Reasons Unexplained
I Need To Find The Truth
But See What Will I Do!

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
this line was difficult for me to decipher until it hit me...rumor has it that Diana married Arnie nass for his fortune...she was struggling at the time (it has been said) so with that in mind, I see Michael as using  the word will as representing her career...it has not brought you your fortune that you had counted on, like how some people count on wills, so you turned to desperate measures and this could be the reason Michael is looking for...it doesn't seem right...it's not right marrying someone for money, and it doesn't seem to matter....but it doesn't seem to matter to you that what you are doing isn't right. Meanwhile...
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
it's been said that Diana married Arnie and Michel didn't find out until he was invited to the wedding, which he didn't go to.  People have said that he was upset that Diana never introduced him or made it a point to tell him about Arnie...she didn't even write a letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

(Who Is It?)
It Is A Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
Is It My Brother?
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

(Who Is It?)
It Is Friend Of Mine
(Who Is It?)
To Me I'm Bothered
(Who Is It?)
Somebody Hurt My Soul, Now
(Who Is It?)
I Can't Take It 'Cause I'm Lonely

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seen Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Bothered Everyday
And She Didn't Leave A Letter
She Just Up And Ran Away

And It Doesn't Seem To Matter
And It Doesn't Seem Right
'Cause The Will Has Brought
No Fortune
Still I Cry Alone At Night
Don't You Judge Of My Composure
'Cause I'm Lying To Myself
And The Reason Why She Left Me
Did She Find Someone Else?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CrazyBanana

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 09:11:16 PM
This makes waaaaaaay more sense then what I thought it was about! I thought it was about LMP because I never really heared it just kinda listenrd! OMG!! what if she really did sleep with a jackson! It could br jermaine since he slept around a lot! LOL JK!!!
btw I was singing who is it b4 I read ur post ! I really scare myself sometimes LOL!
thanks <3
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

mykidsmum

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Re: Why Dirty Diana is Diana Ross

  • on: February 25, 2010, 09:14:29 PM
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"
This makes waaaaaaay more sense then what I thought it was about! I thought it was about LMP because I never really heared it just kinda listenrd! OMG!! what if she really did sleep with a jackson! It could br jermaine since he slept around a lot! LOL JK!!!
btw I was singing who is it b4 I read ur post ! I really scare myself sometimes LOL!
thanks <3
Boo!  LOL....I scare myself sometimes too!  LOL about your Jermaine comment... I love the guy I have to admit, I love them all, but what you said is true and FUNNY!  LOL  That is exactly who I thought when I heard that line!!!!  LOL! :lol:  Just wanted to add that this song was written before MJ and Lisa were a pair.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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