No defibrulator present on 6-25

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Offline bec

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No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 02:44:22 PM
From the old forum, Shikster brought up the no defib argument. Not only was there no defib present at MJs house, despite the fact that Dr. Murray is a cardiologist, but also Dr. Murray refused to allow EMTs to defib MJ at the scene or on the way to the hospital.

Why would this be? If it truly was MJ's dead body laying there and Dr. Murray indeed believed he was facing manslaughter charges, what justification is there for not zapping that corpse into next week?
This simple fact alone makes me believe either we have MJ in make up playing dead on the bed, or an extremely realitstic Hollywood style dummy that Dr. Murray was afraid would catch on fire or melt.

(Originally posted 8-4-09, brought here because I think it's an important bit for folks to remember, especially considering recent Dr. Murray events in the news. Since I posted this on MJKit, I have disregarded the dummy theory. Just an example of what further research can begin to reveal to you if you remain focused on common sense and logic.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline SPAKKLE29FUL

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 02:48:02 PM
well as far as im concerned there was no real doctor present either :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Crescendo

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 02:49:38 PM
thats what i was thinking. but i have a relative who is an Emt. he says debribulator are for shocking the heart back into rhythm so maybe the Dr. didnt find use for it. i have no idea. i wish i had some kinda medical experience.

didnt they say Michael had a faint pulse? how come he didnt give him oxygen?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MJFOREVER

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 02:53:51 PM
He refused it :shock:  i didnt know that at all:P well hes a fake doctor anyway :lol:  HOAXXXX :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lisap27

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 02:58:16 PM
well IMO there's definatly something a miss here!! if the Dr refused the de-fib then he had reason.. like u said a dummy, or not MJ, or someone acting dead!!

this brings me to the Dr definatly knowing that he was not going to get blamed for the death of MJ.. otherwise.. PANIC STATIONS all round de-fibbing so to speak left right an centre!!

this is a positive for us investigators i think!!!
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Offline Alem (Thetruth)

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 03:15:14 PM
Dr Murray use this product to check Michael's heartbeat/pulse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximeter
Wow, I would feel safe having that one! Screw ECG....  :x
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Nathalia

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 03:21:40 PM
If I had a nickel for all the nonsensical occurrences that seem to spew from Conrad Murray,
I could probably pay for college..
 :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SPAKKLE29FUL

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: "Nathalia"
If I had a nickel for all the nonsensical occurrences that seem to spew from Conrad Murray,
I could probably pay for college..
 :lol:
or pay his baby mama :lol:  :lol:
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Offline alive

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 03:44:44 PM
Well, if you believe them, according to Murrary and nurse at hospital, his heart was still beating but he wasn't breathing, so I guess you wouldn't use a defib.  IDK
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline lisap27

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 03:52:54 PM
Quote from: "alive"
Well, if you believe them, according to Murrary and nurse at hospital, his heart was still beating but he wasn't breathing, so I guess you wouldn't use a defib.  IDK

i dunno but if this would the case then would you do CPR?? and work on him for over an hour!! i've read loads of stuff on CPR an everyone is different!!

i'm just confused!!  :?
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Offline Nathalia

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: "SPAKKLE29FUL"
Quote from: "Nathalia"
If I had a nickel for all the nonsensical occurrences that seem to spew from Conrad Murray,
I could probably pay for college..
 :lol:
or pay his baby mama :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
very true! i hear she really needs the money, rotfl!!!
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Crescendo

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: "alive"
Well, if you believe them, according to Murrary and nurse at hospital, his heart was still beating but he wasn't breathing, so I guess you wouldn't use a defib.  IDK



so in one instance he knew a defib wasnt needed for the situation though he doesnt know how to administer CPR properly. is he a real doctor or not? sheesh.. lol
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Offline GirlInTheMirror

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 29, 2009, 05:07:00 PM
Another thing that doesn´t add up...
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Offline CC

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 03:48:25 PM
PROPOFOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
"supply of supplemental oxygen, artificial ventilation and cardiovascular resuscitation are not available"
MAYBE THE DOCTORS MUST USE SOME ANTIDOT, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT KNOWING THAT WAS PROPOFOL, I READ SOMETHING ABOUT THAT OF A DOCTOR MOUTH....
AND THE AMBULANCE PICTURE??? :roll:  :?:
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Offline angelshadow

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
With the picture of Michael's supposed "death bed" in the media was, there was an aerial bag with instructions ....... what this should Murray must the instruction before study ... the guy is impossibly a doctor...


Sorry my English, I not always knows like one says a little bit properly :oops:
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Offline Lou

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 04:54:38 PM
Quote from: "alive"
Well, if you believe them, according to Murrary and nurse at hospital, his heart was still beating but he wasn't breathing, so I guess you wouldn't use a defib.  IDK

Hello,
I'm still a student in the health area, but as far as I know, if that was the case, he needed ventilation first, that is, before CPR or defibrilation.

Quote from: "CC"
"supply of supplemental oxygen, artificial ventilation and cardiovascular resuscitation are not available"
MAYBE THE DOCTORS MUST USE SOME ANTIDOT, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT KNOWING THAT WAS PROPOFOL, I READ SOMETHING ABOUT THAT OF A DOCTOR MOUTH....

I've heard about the antidote too...
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Offline neverlandprincess

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 05:18:04 PM
It is my understanding-as far as that goes-that the Doc would be in trouble for not allowing a defid-and even if he is the doctor blah blah,the paramedics JOB would be to defib...right? I mean I thought protocol WAS to "do everything you possibly can" so that ,even if you know there is no hope,that you can tell the family you did all you could do...this aint right-and if its true it is soooo bad if somebody really died,they should already have him locked up.
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Offline mumof3

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 05:22:24 PM
it does not add up there was no panic in the voices and why didnt they say who they were dealing with was it security reasons i dont know
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Offline neverlandprincess

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: "mumof3"
it does not add up there was no panic in the voices and why didnt they say who they were dealing with was it security reasons i dont know
Just kindling on the fire that screams "Nothing is right here!
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Crescendo

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: November 30, 2009, 08:21:21 PM
Can someone do time or be in any legal trouble for not administering CPR properly?

I mean he said that he did on the bed. SERIOUSLY??
instead of calling 911 he first administered CPR even when he didnt know how?

did the 911 call come before Cpr or vice versa?
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Offline Lou

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: December 21, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: "Crescendo"
Can someone do time or be in any legal trouble for not administering CPR properly?

I mean he said that he did on the bed. SERIOUSLY??
instead of calling 911 he first administered CPR even when he didnt know how?

did the 911 call come before Cpr or vice versa?
According to protocol, 911 is the first thing to be done.
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Offline DontBelieveTheHype

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: December 21, 2009, 06:22:45 PM
He performed CPR on a soft bed and he left him dead for hours making phone calls, he refused to use a defibrulator at the scene of death and then takes off in a car and refuses to sign the death certfiticate. Wow.. Thats like.. the recipe for death...  ;) I mean a hoax..  ;)
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Offline THE JACKSONOLOGIST

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: December 21, 2009, 06:35:13 PM
Ok....here goes.

To the best of my knowledge, if a heart is still beating then you DO NOT use a defib, because that can actually STOP the heart completely. BUT, my bro in law was rushed to the hospital the other day with a racing heart of 180/130 or something and they actually defibbed him in the ambie to slow his heart down and it worked without killing him.
I think if you use a defib on someone with a normal to very slow heartbeat, you can stop the heart..........Im not a dr so dont quote me on this.
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Offline lisap27

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: December 21, 2009, 06:41:45 PM
on a documentry i watched before it had the 911 call.. or a version of it should we say.. and the operator asked the security guard

"was he on the floor.. "
"no"
"well get him on the floor"

and obviously they still didn't so it!! also i'm not sure who said it.. said that Murray had one hand underneath Michaels back an the other hand was on his chest doing chest compressions!! NOWAY!! is that possible!! they also commented on how a Dr should know how to do CPR properly.. And questioned why the security guard rang 911 and talked to the operator an not the DR..  :shock:
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Offline MJJ1982

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Re: No defibrulator present on 6-25

  • on: December 21, 2009, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
Ok....here goes.

To the best of my knowledge, if a heart is still beating then you DO NOT use a defib, because that can actually STOP the heart completely. BUT, my bro in law was rushed to the hospital the other day with a racing heart of 180/130 or something and they actually defibbed him in the ambie to slow his heart down and it worked without killing him.
I think if you use a defib on someone with a normal to very slow heartbeat, you can stop the heart..........Im not a dr so dont quote me on this.

You are right, I have worked at a cardiac surgery department (don't know how to say in english ;) ) and I've seen it there a lot of times. They use it for example when someone has an irregular heart rhythm.
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