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Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:32:59 AM
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
Quote from: "virgo75"
I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.


I agree with what you said about trying to find clues in everything. I think that we should try and break away from that..

Agreed...looking for clues hasn't gotten us anywhere.  I think we need to go back to the facts and start from there.  One day  soon I hope we know the whole truth.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:37:04 AM
I sort of agree with many of the posts in this thread. Here's my personal take.

I don't think this hoax, if it is 100% true (sorry, but I still maintain my ounce of doubt, because I do believe it's POSSIBLE that MJ did die), is that it's not all that complicated as some theories would suggest.

To me, the fact that we can't find any concrete, 100% legitimate and factual evidence that MJ is alive, is proof that this hoax was not a well planned endeavor. Seems to me it was something that had to happen, with not a lot of planning, with VERY FEW people on it, which is why we can't get more solid evidence or "clues."

And the problem with us trying to figure it all out is that, like others have said, all we really have as a means of investigation is the Internet. Sure, some members may live in CA or TX or somewhere where they can dig in deeper. But for most of us, that is just not the case. And guess what? The Internet is not proof of anything. We can find things that APPEAR to support something we believe, and in many cases, when someone finds something like that, they post it like it's the most important "clue" ever found. But then what? It's either something someone posted 3 months ago. Or it's something posted 3 days ago (multiple times) and people don't bother to verify if their information is new by daily clicking on View New Posts and reading through all the topics to be sure! Or they post something within a thread that has been posted already multiple times...but they don't actually read the thread to know that, so the thread goes on for pages, with the same exact info being rehashed over and over and over. Or it's something that doesn't really mean anything. It's all counterproductive.

Another problem is that habit by some of clinging to trivial, meaningless, or far-fetched notions that are shear and utter speculation, with little or no basis in fact. And days are spent (with sometimes hundreds of posts) on one thread/"clue" that goes absolutely nowhere. Sometimes it's not even about clues...it's endless threads about LMP or the Jackson brothers or LaToya or whatever. And most of this stuff has nothing to do with the hoax, so to me, it's time and energy wasted that could be better spent focusing on something more important.

Relying on a forum (any forum) as means of storing the results of our research is pure folly at this point. We've seen forums crash and burn with months of evidence and research in them. It can happen anywhere at any time. So to me, the best way to preserve any evidence that is meaningful to you is to back it up yourself. Save photos, web pages, documents and whatever else on your own computer...and back it up...OFTEN, if you really don't want to lose it.

I also don't think it's possible for us to form a cohesive and unified staff to direct and organize the investigation and the accumulation of research. Because in order to do that, there'd have to be a group of people who all agree on a specific theory to pinpoint our focus, and that's just not possible. We all believe different things here. And clearly we do not always agree because we are all very different people in different parts of the world, in different time zones, of different ages, approaching everything with very different points of view. In many ways that can be helpful. I know that has led me to some new ideas that I just may not have come to on my own. But with regard to organizing and such, it just makes it more challenging, IMO.

I honestly believe that if our beloved MJ is still alive, and IF some regular person (like any one of us) is going to find evidence to prove that fact, that evidence will never see the light of day. Seriously. If Michael knocked at my door tomorrow, came into my house, and proceeded to tell me that he had to hoax his death and why, and then told me that I could never tell ANYONE...EVER. Guess what? I never would. And even if I found out something on my own that absolutely, positively 100% proved that he is alive, and if it confirmed to me that he and/or his children/family were or are in danger...again, I would not reveal my proof to anyone. Would you?

If MJ is alive and plans a return, I just firmly believe that he is the one who will make it known to the world, in his own way, and in his own time. Will there be occasional clues for us to find, intentionally or otherwise? Maybe. Maybe not. But I also believe that much of what people currently believe to be "proof" or "clues" is really meaningless. I don't mean this to be rude or offensive. I just don't believe that there are that many real clues. I do think that there are some to be found, but we have not found them yet...not the real ones. And that's why I keep looking. But I don't think MJ is just leaving them for us, like breadcrumbs to follow. I think they are purely accidental or coincidental.

So that's my take...totally my own opinion, and meant with no disrespect to any of the members here. It's just how I feel about it all. I'm on this journey, and hoping it leads to the truth. And that's how I approach everything I do with regard to my own investigation: looking for truth, not looking for things to fit a particular theory.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.  ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

(Translation = Just because I might disagree with you does not mean I\'m attacking you.)

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 03:14:32 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

Totally agree! I personally beleive that we just can't figure this out ! Not because we're dense or anything like that 'cause if we were we wouldn't even be here !
I think that we just can't find a 100% solid proof. And I also agree that many times we spent a lot of time in meaningless threads.
We see a tree and we loose the forest!
I mean, how on earth we can prove that the amb. picture is photoshopped and not true ?
Only if we have Ben Evanstad (or whatever his name) saying "yes I falsified the picture" or" yes Michael put a mannequin in the amb." or "yes Michael posed for me" or whatever...

Guys, this is a HUGE case.I don't think we can imagine how deep it goes !
It's not a game its'a matter of life for Michael , for his protection and his safety.
If we had a solid proof for this hoax ,then there wouldn't be any hoax at all !
It would become crystal clear to anyone  that he's alive and then ...what ?
All these clues are here for us , the devoted fans and waiting to be found .
So take one step at a time. Be patient.
And if nothing else, at least we did something big by standing against the stream and fought for what we beleive.
Isn't that something ?

Relax my friends, at the end THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!
maybe it takes a little bit more time but

I WILL ALWAYS BE HERE FOR MY MICHAEL !
(and i think most of you) ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 03:53:43 AM
I´m impressed to find so much self-awareness in this topic - and so much truth!
 
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

I join my previous speakers: the acknowledged dependence on the media as our main informant and leaker and
the diversity in interpretation of what we see and hear makes it almost impossible for us to go consequently in the same direction.
But that might very well be also part of the plan: the secret would be safe within all that tumult and no one would seriously give credit to some conspiracy theorists - not until it´s time to reveal that (maybe?) the "minority" was in fact right.

Perhaps that appertains to the punchline?...

So whatever we believe or not - anyway, it´s good to "come together" over here - over HIM.  :)
L.O.V.E.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 04:00:12 AM
Quote from: "rag doll"
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

:lol:  I know the feeling!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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I will always love you Michael!

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 04:23:02 AM
Quote from: "ILuvUMoreMJ"
Quote from: "rag doll"
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

:lol:  I know the feeling!

 :lol: Thank you! That´s what I love here - sharing solidarity!  :P  ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

Sangre

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 06:06:37 AM
Sometimes we've got the answers right under our noses. Perhaps we have gone so deep into our researches that we just don't notice what's on the surface.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"No one should judge what I\'ve done with my life. Not unless they\'ve been in my shoes every horrible day and every sleepless night." ~ Michael J. (1995)

*

CC

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

@christiana
"To me, the fact that we can't find any concrete, 100% legitimate and factual evidence that MJ is alive, is proof that this hoax was not a well planned endeavor. Seems to me it was something that had to happen, with not a lot of planning, with VERY FEW people on it, which is why we can't get more solid evidence or "clues." "


i´m starting to think what christiana wrote...
maybe all this starts just like the hoax of december, and goes and goes... who knows?
maybe this hoax works, and the other not... just that!
maybe the clues are not clues, just something not well planned, some inconsisteinces and lies of something without a lot of planning... maybe the people involved really don´t know some part of this hoax, maybe some people, like joe sais, don´t see mj body... and really don´t know what really happen... is like all are waiting what is going to happen... all are waiting...ME TOO!
HE LIKE IT SIMPLE! MAYBE IS JUST THAT: SIMPLE!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Some men see things as they are and say: WHY?
I dream things that never were and say: WHY NOT?

*

MashMike

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:18:28 PM
to  KINGdom52


I totally agree with u,couldn't say it better,it's just the same thing i feel and think.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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NO BROKEN BRIDGES CAN TURN US AROUND,CAUSE WHAT WE\'RE SEARCHING FOR, WILL SOON BE FOUND,CAUSE WE\'RE ALMOST THERE, JUST ONE MORE STEP,JUST ONE MORE STEP,DON\'T GIVE UP CAUSE WE\'RE ALMOST THERE

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:25:56 PM
I agree with what many have said here.

There have been way too many distractions.  We need to remove ourselves from the "will he come back" aspect and just go right back to basics and work out what happened on 25th June - nothing more.  We need to go back to the start of 2009 and lead up to the O2 announcement first of all and then what happened between March and June.

We have been bombarded with information these last 7 months and it's just too much.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Michael, I am here for you always.  I give you my heart, my soul and I offer you my friendship."

*

Grace

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: "Christiana"
And that's how I approach everything I do with regard to my own investigation: looking for truth, not looking for things to fit a particular theory.
Thank you - as always a very good analysis and I share your thoughts.
:-)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 01:51:14 PM
Thank you, MashMike. :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

Grenat

Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 02:11:11 PM
Quote
For me the clues that stand out the most are:
1. All the strange things relating to the O2 concert, including the March press conference and concepts such as Light Man, costumes, special effects not being ready for London opening.
2. Dr. Murray's actions on the day of and since.
3. The ambulance photo and Ben's comments about the day and the other day and his prior friendship with MJ.
4. Jermaine's press conference announcing MJ "death" instead of a doctor.
5. The 7 COD's with no signatures.
6. The closing down of part of LAX that day.
7. Everything about the Memorial Service, including painS instead of pain.
8. The Liberian Girl picture.
9. The time between the Memorial Service and the Burial.
10. The Burial.
11.The dancers as ushers and the picture of them all surrounding Michael's picture.
12.Strange comments, behaviors, tweets of the family, especially Joe, and also KO.
13.The very strange child support hearing with CM and the issue of the judge being retired.
14.The leaks of songs never recorded before.
15. Everything about TII that points to the production of a movie and not a concert.
16. Garbage and trash cans everywhere.

I agree mostly with all the points you cited.
I would add that Conrad Murray is a whole mystery himself.
This is not just his behavior that day,25th of June that is disturbing.
He has many things that are just strange around that man :
He has multiples names and several birthdays..His wife is a doctor too.
We have not pictures or hearings of him prior to 2009
The fact that he disapeared the day Michael "died"
The fact that paps doesn't seems to be able to find him/don't search him,even tough he is the most responsible for the biggest drama of 2009(or at least one of the biggest)
The fact that LAPD doesn't seem to be really quick to investigate on him at all.
The conflicting stories about his hiring( Did Michael hire him or AEG did)
The fact he was not licensed to practise either in California or London...

I could get on and on...and I did only focus on one person that is weird in this whole story..there is no end to weird happening and unbelievables things surrounding the death of Michael..that's too much
The problem is that yes,we look too much maybe into everything,
We are being distracted by useless drama and fights among the members,
there are trolls popping out everywhere,claiming to be Michael or someone close to him.
We should unite at one and let everyone have his/her part to search everything we can,with a rational look about this.
We came here to know the truth surrounding Michael's death, and if he hoaxed his death, what is he trying to tell us,right ?Not to fight with anyone and cause useless drama...
We shouldn't get distracted of this mission.
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Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 02:40:41 PM
Has anyone ever lost something and spent time frantically looking in the logical places where they may have lost that item? I lost my house keys one day after a trip to the grocery store. I searched high and low for the keys. I retraced my steps and practically tore my home apart in search of those keys. Finally I decided to take a break, collect my emotions and  get a drink from the refrigerator. Guess what I saw inside of the refrigerator? The keys! I had absentmindely put away groceries AND keys.  :oops:

Maybe we're thinking too much and too logically. Perhaps the BAM is sitting patiently in some illogical place yet we keep looking over it, around it and under it because the BAM couldn't possibly be found "there".    ;)

Adults think very deeply. Children think in simple terms. A child is hungry and sees a package of cookies. The child eats the cookies so the hunger is satisfied. Meanwhile adults have to spend 15 minutes to study the caloric intake and nutritional value of the cookies as their stomach rumbles. I am going to try and channel my inner child to help me figure out this hoax. It cannot be nearly as complicated as we wise  and deep thinking adults on hoax forums have made it out to be.  :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: Why can't we figure this out???
January 22, 2010, 02:48:02 PM
Quote from: "GirlSaturday"
Has anyone ever lost something and spent time frantically looking in the logical places where they may have lost that item? I lost my house keys one day after a trip to the grocery store. I searched high and low for the keys. I retraced my steps and practically tore my home apart in search of those keys. Finally I decided to take a break, collect my emotions and  get a drink from the refrigerator. Guess what I saw inside of the refrigerator? The keys! I had absentmindely put away groceries AND keys.  :oops:

Maybe we're thinking too much and too logically. Perhaps the BAM is sitting patiently in some illogical place yet we keep looking over it, around it and under it because the BAM couldn't possibly be found "there".    ;)

Adults think very deeply. Children think in simple terms. A child is hungry and sees a package of cookies. The child eats the cookies so the hunger is satisfied. Meanwhile adults have to spend 15 minutes to study the caloric intake and nutritional value of the cookies as their stomach rumbles. I am going to try and channel my inner child to help me figure out this hoax. It cannot be nearly as complicated as we wise  and deep thinking adults on hoax forums have made it out to be.  :lol:


Ta-daaahhhh!!!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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