[THE JACKSONOLOGIST]

....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

Is MJ THAT smart or are we (and I include myself here) just really dense? LOL!

I know we have hoax vids, and "informers"..some of which I trust and others i totally dont, but seriously, why havent we figured out what is going on? Not just with the death, but with blonde lady, the memorial, the 911 call and where it came from, the autopsies,the funeral, the lengths of time in between each event, the lies, the weird sayings from family members etc? Should I go on? We all have our beliefs on certain things but we have no REAL proof of anything....Was MJ the blonde lady? I think so, but we dont know for sure do we?

I feel like we've been given more then enough clues and hints but yet we are at a standstill. Are we overlooking the obvious? Have we missed something completely? Do we need to start over and look at every thing with a microscope again?  


AAAAHHHHH!!!!

[virgo75]

I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

[THE JACKSONOLOGIST]

I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

I agree with what you said about trying to find clues in everything. I think that we should try and break away from that..

Also, I agree with we dont know what we're looking for.
Its so frustrating !! I just wanna know that he is definately alive and that will soothe my heart...its the not knowing that drives me batty.
Id like to know WHY he did this, but if I am only allowed to find out for sure 100000% he is alive, then I will live with that.

[voiceforthesilent]

I totally agree.  With all due respect, there are too many threads that are nice to read but have little value to finding the truth.  Also - I, for one, don't have the opportunity to call around and check stories and most of us don't live in CA where we can drive and check out details in person.  That is a downfall.  Most of us rely on the Internet and it's slowed down progress by those that are deliberately baiting us with false information.  I try whenever possible to view the original information instead of just the video or picture that was posted by someone else. That way I can see it for myself and determine whether the blogger is correct in their statement.  I think there are clues out there if we look.

[Idéalo]

contracts concerts london are they valid.
michael when he has signed this contract with AEG and in what city. I do not see on any page of the contract.

[teensy]

I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

So true. I think our view on the hoax evolves as well. We may have believed one thing at one time, but not anymore.

[neverlandprincess]

:D  for you Jacksonolagist. We do get into alot of odd and weird trails that have like 9 percent to do with anything. If we got on one page and tried to fit things together and then it doesnt work go to another etc etc etc. Many times no one can agree so they dont try to connect dots... ;)

[Boeing727]

I think that hes trying to defeat the NWO somehow as they are behind all the problems he sings about in They Don't Care About Us, Earth Song, Heal the World and a few others. Even Bad is a confrontation to them with the message "if you're going to come and get me then come and get me".

He made sure he was financially set before taking them on and that's why he bought rights to a large part of the Sony catalogue. Non famous people such as Alex Jones can take on the NWO day in day out but its a lot harder to do it if you are a very famous individual like MJ was. In short they do not want extremely famous individuals exposing them as there are some people who will do whatever these individuals say. If MJ was to get up on stage at the O2 there is a possibility that he would expose them in some way. Some say he knew Jane Burgermiester and he would use the Swine Flu swindle to expose them. I do not know which way he would do it but I think its plausable knowing that the NWO want to depopulate 80% of the worlds population (look it up) and were the cause of 90% of what MJ campaigned about usually via his music.

I suggest you visit theindustryexposed.com and look at the 2 michael jackson videos posted there as this goes into more detail about the NWO in relation to micheal.

Peace

[Zen]

by THE JACKSONOLOGIST » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:49 pm
....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

Is MJ THAT smart or are we (and I include myself here) just really dense? LOL!

I know we have hoax vids, and "informers"..some of which I trust and others i totally dont, but seriously, why havent we figured out what is going on? Not just with the death, but with blonde lady, the memorial, the 911 call and where it came from, the autopsies,the funeral, the lengths of time in between each event, the lies, the weird sayings from family members etc? Should I go on? We all have our beliefs on certain things but we have no REAL proof of anything....Was MJ the blonde lady? I think so, but we dont know for sure do we?

I feel like we've been given more then enough clues and hints but yet we are at a standstill. Are we overlooking the obvious? Have we missed something completely? Do we need to start over and look at every      thing with a microscope again?

The best way is what you said.  START with March 2009.   It was from this point on, that things got
very strange.   Remember Tohme's words about Michael concerning the auction of Michael's things  "Michael has had a change of heart".  Reflecting back, I don't feel like good about that statement.  
Michael's apparent break-down and not wanting to make the announcement, his being late, out-of-character
and seemingly high.  His (now-lost) statement to the fans about the number of the concert dates
being increased, talk of laser technology in regards to holograms. You know, all this leading up to the
DAY.  The DAY of what....?   We have reflect on clues and everything AFTERward, but the answer
lies in the before.
And one more thing, it gets hard when articles, videos, and blogs DISAPPEAR.  exactly WHO and
WHY do you think they are disappearing  :?:   :?:      :geek:

[CC]

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1790

[the_lost_child]

wow, so now I see I'm not the only one with such kind of thoughts - I l.o.v.e. you guys :)
Well... He's "simply Michael Jackson" - he always does things no one has ever seen or experience before. Now, if he hoaxed his death, there must be some deeper meaning, some important purpose, which we may not see or understand. Some clues are too obvious to be ignored - they point simply, that he's alive, and maybe cause he needs to stay in his hide - he's just saying us as clearly as he only can: Yes, I am alive.

But maybe we shouldn't dig much deeper as necessary, 'cause finding clues in everything caused - at least on my side - some confusion, 'cause come 'clues' are just ridicules - we must not forget, this whole thing is not for fun, it's not for us to playing detectives, it's abut Michael, his safety, his life.

Maybe we don't see the big picture now, 'cause the time for it has not come... yet. You know, we're not the ones here, who create the rules...

But...
Dear Michael, if you're reading this, take your time and do what you have to do... but please, let it not least too long... 'Cause it may not take too much long and when you finally come back, you'd have to visit me @nut house...

[mjj29081958]

I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

Completely agree with you!  :D

And I also think that we can't figure this out because we just can speculate, suppose and give a subjetive meaning to things we find on the internet, and at the end of the day, we can't give nothing for granted.

I mean we start threads, and rarely we got an outcome, because we never know for sure what is/ is not photoshopped, what is/ is not leaked info, what is tabloid info, what is/ is not false documentation, what is old/ new stuff, and so on. Joe-Joseph thing, O2 Michael, Ambulance pic, are some examples: old stuff, but no outcome yet... we don't need to go so far: there are members who still doubt if he's alive or not: some things are too obvious, enough, or valid evidence for some members, but not for others.

Plus, we have to deal with people, trolls, insiders, haters, YouTube/MySpace/Facebook/Twitter users who enjoy play & create confusion to believers giving dates, cryptic riddles,those things are keeping us away from the investigation IMO.

That's why I think we can't figure this out  :D

[mjmyangelbaby]

I agree with all of you maybe we're just supposed to know that he's alive and that's it,I mean who cares where he is or what he's doing as long as he's ok and eventually he'll come back when it's safe. The only thing I want is to find one solid proof that he's alive and that's enough for me, I'll wait as long as I have to."LOVE YOU SWEET ANGEL"

[Liberian Girl Heehee]

Maybe it's just not time yet for us to figure this out.

What I mean is that we have no hard evidence that he is alive, no more than we have hard evidence that he is dead.  If he is alive, and I believe that he is, as he said..."I will come back in my own time."  If we go ahead and figure this out, where does that leave Michael, assuming his time to return is not ready?

We have gotten sidetracked and side trolled over the last 7 months and what seems like real clues can get lost amid the chatter and naysayers.

All I know is that when you review the strong clues and wierd stuff that has taken place over the last 7 months, things surrounding the events of June 25th and the  "death" of Michael Jackson just don't add up.  When I get discouraged or anxious about wth happened, I think back to the clues that stand out the most and I keep the faith.

For me the clues that stand out the most are:
1. All the strange things relating to the O2 concert, including the March press conference and concepts such as Light Man, costumes, special effects not being ready for London opening.
2. Dr. Murray's actions on the day of and since.
3. The ambulance photo and Ben's comments about the day and the other day and his     prior friendship with MJ.
4. Jermaine's press conference announcing MJ "death" instead of a doctor.
5. The 7 COD's with no signatures.
6. The closing down of part of LAX that day.
7. Everything about the Memorial Service, including painS instead of pain.
8. The Liberian Girl picture.
9. The time between the Memorial Service and the Burial.
10. The Burial.
11.The dancers as ushers and the picture of them all surrounding Michael's picture.
12.Strange comments, behaviors, tweets of the family, especially Joe, and also KO.
13.The very strange child support hearing with CM and the issue of the judge being retired.
14.The leaks of songs never recorded before.
15. Everything about TII that points to the production of a movie and not a concert.
16. Garbage and trash cans everywhere.

I am sure I can think of at least a few more, but my brain hurts...so feel free to add to the list!

[Grace]

....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

This will partially sound sharp but it is NOT intended to offend or hurt, ok?
I just want to give what is required in business projects in order to succeed and am transferring those principles to our work. I am picturing to make it more clear. We are a group of wonderful, dedicated, wise, helpful, educated and professional people here that are contributing what they can from their part.

But why can't we still figure out what happened?
1) Because we are depending on the information available in the web
(we don't check many other sources, right?) - so whoever plants there what they want us to know will be sure we'll find it one day or the other, just put Michael Jackson in the metatags / keywords and here we go;

2) Because we were so far never able to get organized
(imagine a bunch of heartful chickens (I am picturing now, no offense, ladies) - whoever is straying food for us is sure to get our attention - we all rush there - some will pick on sideways and then come back and say "look, I found something" and will present their egg - then there will be discussions on "the food was delicious today" or "they did not give us enough" or "today nothing happens, not even the fox comes watch us". And we hop back on our stack for the night.)

What would be needed to get to results is
a) structured staff with defined areas of responsibilities (we have staff but no organized task deployment, we have people popping in from time to time but not on "you are working for the red eggs in L.A. county only")
b) a center where all information gets in (we have that, it's the forum)
c) a team leader sorting, priorizing information and staff, getting the team to work where needed and putting the collected information into reports

This implies that we would have a moderator (this we have), a team leader / coordinator (this we don't have), staff (this we partially have) and would know what to do (this we don't have).

So for the lack of organization and focus, this journey can only partially be accomplished (and this was evident from the beginning, that's why we are not feared to unveil the truth).
Could we succeed ? Not if we continue as we did so far.
Would we succeed if we started now? Given the disappearance of so much information in our main source, the web, in the meantime, I doubt it.

I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

[ILuvUMoreMJ]

I think part of the problem is that we've been lead on many wild goose chases over nonsense.   :roll:

Also, I think it was more serious than just a game, so there will be a lot that we aren't supposed to know.

Maybe Michael just wants us to know that he's alive and isn't leaving all these clues laying around like dirty socks on a floor.  

Too, we are trying to find clues in EVERYTHING, when there probably aren't clues in everything.

I think you're right that we may need to start over.
Go back to the beginning and decipher exactly what it is that we're looking for.

Are we trying to find out IF he hoaxed his death?
Are we trying to find out WHY?
HOW?
When we think he'll come back?
IF he'll come back?

We've gotten too distracted.

You can't find something if you don't even know WHAT you're looking for.

I agree with what you said about trying to find clues in everything. I think that we should try and break away from that..

Agreed...looking for clues hasn't gotten us anywhere.  I think we need to go back to the facts and start from there.  One day  soon I hope we know the whole truth.

[Christiana]

I sort of agree with many of the posts in this thread. Here's my personal take.

I don't think this hoax, if it is 100% true (sorry, but I still maintain my ounce of doubt, because I do believe it's POSSIBLE that MJ did die), is that it's not all that complicated as some theories would suggest.

To me, the fact that we can't find any concrete, 100% legitimate and factual evidence that MJ is alive, is proof that this hoax was not a well planned endeavor. Seems to me it was something that had to happen, with not a lot of planning, with VERY FEW people on it, which is why we can't get more solid evidence or "clues."

And the problem with us trying to figure it all out is that, like others have said, all we really have as a means of investigation is the Internet. Sure, some members may live in CA or TX or somewhere where they can dig in deeper. But for most of us, that is just not the case. And guess what? The Internet is not proof of anything. We can find things that APPEAR to support something we believe, and in many cases, when someone finds something like that, they post it like it's the most important "clue" ever found. But then what? It's either something someone posted 3 months ago. Or it's something posted 3 days ago (multiple times) and people don't bother to verify if their information is new by daily clicking on View New Posts and reading through all the topics to be sure! Or they post something within a thread that has been posted already multiple times...but they don't actually read the thread to know that, so the thread goes on for pages, with the same exact info being rehashed over and over and over. Or it's something that doesn't really mean anything. It's all counterproductive.

Another problem is that habit by some of clinging to trivial, meaningless, or far-fetched notions that are shear and utter speculation, with little or no basis in fact. And days are spent (with sometimes hundreds of posts) on one thread/"clue" that goes absolutely nowhere. Sometimes it's not even about clues...it's endless threads about LMP or the Jackson brothers or LaToya or whatever. And most of this stuff has nothing to do with the hoax, so to me, it's time and energy wasted that could be better spent focusing on something more important.

Relying on a forum (any forum) as means of storing the results of our research is pure folly at this point. We've seen forums crash and burn with months of evidence and research in them. It can happen anywhere at any time. So to me, the best way to preserve any evidence that is meaningful to you is to back it up yourself. Save photos, web pages, documents and whatever else on your own computer...and back it up...OFTEN, if you really don't want to lose it.

I also don't think it's possible for us to form a cohesive and unified staff to direct and organize the investigation and the accumulation of research. Because in order to do that, there'd have to be a group of people who all agree on a specific theory to pinpoint our focus, and that's just not possible. We all believe different things here. And clearly we do not always agree because we are all very different people in different parts of the world, in different time zones, of different ages, approaching everything with very different points of view. In many ways that can be helpful. I know that has led me to some new ideas that I just may not have come to on my own. But with regard to organizing and such, it just makes it more challenging, IMO.

I honestly believe that if our beloved MJ is still alive, and IF some regular person (like any one of us) is going to find evidence to prove that fact, that evidence will never see the light of day. Seriously. If Michael knocked at my door tomorrow, came into my house, and proceeded to tell me that he had to hoax his death and why, and then told me that I could never tell ANYONE...EVER. Guess what? I never would. And even if I found out something on my own that absolutely, positively 100% proved that he is alive, and if it confirmed to me that he and/or his children/family were or are in danger...again, I would not reveal my proof to anyone. Would you?

If MJ is alive and plans a return, I just firmly believe that he is the one who will make it known to the world, in his own way, and in his own time. Will there be occasional clues for us to find, intentionally or otherwise? Maybe. Maybe not. But I also believe that much of what people currently believe to be "proof" or "clues" is really meaningless. I don't mean this to be rude or offensive. I just don't believe that there are that many real clues. I do think that there are some to be found, but we have not found them yet...not the real ones. And that's why I keep looking. But I don't think MJ is just leaving them for us, like breadcrumbs to follow. I think they are purely accidental or coincidental.

So that's my take...totally my own opinion, and meant with no disrespect to any of the members here. It's just how I feel about it all. I'm on this journey, and hoping it leads to the truth. And that's how I approach everything I do with regard to my own investigation: looking for truth, not looking for things to fit a particular theory.

[KINGdom52]

I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

Totally agree! I personally beleive that we just can't figure this out ! Not because we're dense or anything like that 'cause if we were we wouldn't even be here !
I think that we just can't find a 100% solid proof. And I also agree that many times we spent a lot of time in meaningless threads.
We see a tree and we loose the forest!
I mean, how on earth we can prove that the amb. picture is photoshopped and not true ?
Only if we have Ben Evanstad (or whatever his name) saying "yes I falsified the picture" or" yes Michael put a mannequin in the amb." or "yes Michael posed for me" or whatever...

Guys, this is a HUGE case.I don't think we can imagine how deep it goes !
It's not a game its'a matter of life for Michael , for his protection and his safety.
If we had a solid proof for this hoax ,then there wouldn't be any hoax at all !
It would become crystal clear to anyone  that he's alive and then ...what ?
All these clues are here for us , the devoted fans and waiting to be found .
So take one step at a time. Be patient.
And if nothing else, at least we did something big by standing against the stream and fought for what we beleive.
Isn't that something ?

Relax my friends, at the end THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!
maybe it takes a little bit more time but

I WILL ALWAYS BE HERE FOR MY MICHAEL !
(and i think most of you) ;)

[rag doll]

I´m impressed to find so much self-awareness in this topic - and so much truth!
 
Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

I join my previous speakers: the acknowledged dependence on the media as our main informant and leaker and
the diversity in interpretation of what we see and hear makes it almost impossible for us to go consequently in the same direction.
But that might very well be also part of the plan: the secret would be safe within all that tumult and no one would seriously give credit to some conspiracy theorists - not until it´s time to reveal that (maybe?) the "minority" was in fact right.

Perhaps that appertains to the punchline?...

So whatever we believe or not - anyway, it´s good to "come together" over here - over HIM.  :)
L.O.V.E.

[ILuvUMoreMJ]

Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

:lol:  I know the feeling!

[rag doll]

Between a lot of outrageous and misleading things (every time I read about "NWO" & "Illuminati" etc. here or elswhere in a serious context, I suddenly feel like bottling the one with a Dan Brown collected volume book - hardcover edition - in a metaphorical sense, of course not abusive!  :twisted: :lol: ) a wise word is all the more appreciated.

:lol:  I know the feeling!

 :lol: Thank you! That´s what I love here - sharing solidarity!  :P  ;)

[Sangre]

Sometimes we've got the answers right under our noses. Perhaps we have gone so deep into our researches that we just don't notice what's on the surface.

[CC]

....with the thousands of hoax believers out there, why is it that we cant figure out what the heck happened on June 25th? WHY?

I have not considered finding "the" truth in the hoax forums but more truth than in the media controlled world. And yes, this we did achieve with the means that were available to us and within the limitations that were set.
And yes, I am proud of each and everybody who questioned the "public" news and came here and contributed to unveil the lies and inconsistencies.

We found more than we expected, right?
This I am proud of.
This is enough giving me confidence that the rest will be unveiled in time, too.
And I don't mind being a chick at all. I am proud being a part of the bunch.
Because we speak where others stay silent.

"There is nothing we can't do if we raise our voice as one."
We are getting to this.
L.O.V.E.

@christiana
"To me, the fact that we can't find any concrete, 100% legitimate and factual evidence that MJ is alive, is proof that this hoax was not a well planned endeavor. Seems to me it was something that had to happen, with not a lot of planning, with VERY FEW people on it, which is why we can't get more solid evidence or "clues." "

i´m starting to think what christiana wrote...
maybe all this starts just like the hoax of december, and goes and goes... who knows?
maybe this hoax works, and the other not... just that!
maybe the clues are not clues, just something not well planned, some inconsisteinces and lies of something without a lot of planning... maybe the people involved really don´t know some part of this hoax, maybe some people, like joe sais, don´t see mj body... and really don´t know what really happen... is like all are waiting what is going to happen... all are waiting...ME TOO!
HE LIKE IT SIMPLE! MAYBE IS JUST THAT: SIMPLE!

[MashMike]

to  KINGdom52


I totally agree with u,couldn't say it better,it's just the same thing i feel and think.

[rowdyangel]

I agree with what many have said here.

There have been way too many distractions.  We need to remove ourselves from the "will he come back" aspect and just go right back to basics and work out what happened on 25th June - nothing more.  We need to go back to the start of 2009 and lead up to the O2 announcement first of all and then what happened between March and June.

We have been bombarded with information these last 7 months and it's just too much.