5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

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Offline princesspea

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5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 02:38:36 PM
Hi all,

I thought I'd post something I studied as a student nurse a few years back. It is a model of grief by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. It helped knowing about this initially as I was acutely aware that until the 'memorial' I was in complete denial and very clinical about the whole thing. I even hit anger next (before I realised a few people could smell a rat.....fast forward to thousands presently) because at that point I believed he'd died from using a hospital-based drug for insomnia (foooooooolish moi).

It is no way a uniform ideal of how and when we should feel certain emotions as although there are 5 stages they can hit you in a different order, you can skip stages and/or have stages overlapping simultaneously!

Its just a handy thing to know as even though we all believe, we do sometimes slip into our grief and what-ifs.

five stages of grief - elisabeth kübler ross
EKR stage Interpretation
1 - Denial Denial is a conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, reality, etc., relating to the situation concerned. It's a defence mechanism and perfectly natural. Some people can become locked in this stage when dealing with a traumatic change that can be ignored. Death of course is not particularly easy to avoid or evade indefinitely.

2 - Anger
 Anger can manifest in different ways. People dealing with emotional upset can be angry with themselves, and/or with others, especially those close to them. Knowing this helps keep detached and non-judgemental when experiencing the anger of someone who is very upset.

3 - Bargaining
 Traditionally the bargaining stage for people facing death can involve attempting to bargain with whatever God the person believes in. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?.." when facing a break-up. Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it's a matter of life or death.

4 - Depression
 Also referred to as preparatory grieving. In a way it's the dress rehearsal or the practice run for the 'aftermath' although this stage means different things depending on whom it involves. It's a sort of acceptance with emotional attachment. It's natural to feel sadness and regret, fear, uncertainty, etc. It shows that the person has at least begun to accept the reality.  

5 - Acceptance Again this stage definitely varies according to the person's situation, although broadly it is an indication that there is some emotional detachment and objectivity. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must necessarily pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.

Hope this helps.

xxx melanie xxx
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 02:53:09 PM
I'm glad to hear this from a person in the medical field.  I think I am overlapping 2 or 3 of those right now.  I am angry because I know that there are so many things that don't add up but I can't help but wonder if I am taking myself on an emotional roller-coaster ride in vain.  I want more than anything to be able to say I KNOW Michael did not perish on that day.  But when I say it even just to myself, a voice inside me says, how can you be sure?  the answer, I can't.  I am just so conflicted that I am pulling my hair out.  I keep saying he can't be dead.  But then I feel foolish because that is not my decision to make,  However, the selfish me says, it should be.  I don't know how to cope.  I don't know what to do.  I don't know how to be content and patient and wait.  Help me.  This is driving ME to the grave.  I don't want to go there just yet.  I'd rather wait for Michael.  I'm totally exhausted.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Offline princesspea

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 03:29:00 PM
I feel EXACTLY the same which is why I posted this. I was a bit worried about putting it out there as we all deal with it in our own way, this was just to say that no matter where you're at, its NORMAL.

I too am exhausted, and some days i SO want to give up and accept. The trouble is for me, like all of us, in my heart I really dont think he is. I just wish we knew for sure now. I want to keep the faith etc but how long is too long? I keep saying that on such and such a date thats it, I'm moving on but then when it arrives I just cant.

You know I spent years thinking the 'Elvis is Alive' people were just in denial (and I dont know enogh detail to judge on that one) but here I am in exactly the same situation.

I too would rather just grieve and move on if he is dead but but but........

Its a concentric circle going round and round.

Anyone who is struggling can ALWAYS PM me, as I am never too bust to help anyone out.

hesouttamylife, have you looked at the thread 'I think I had a significant dream'? I think its in the general talk section of the forum? Some of us posted dreams and possible 'signs' we may have had after particularly hard days. It may help you, it did me.

big hugs cos we are all in this mess together

xxx melanie xxx
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 04:13:04 PM
thank you Melanie, I will check that out.  I need all the help that I can get.  My heart says he is as alive as you and me because all the facts from that day on have been total tabloid trash.  Michael ALWAYS warned us about that.  But then when they talk about autopsy and deathbed pictures, which I refuse to look at, then it makes me wonder if I've missed the boat.  He has to be alive, all the evidence points to the fact that he certainly didn't die the way the media would want us to believe, not on that day and not at that hour.  If that's all they've got to offer then where oh where is Michael Joseph Jackson because he certainly wan't there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Offline princesspea

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 04:25:44 PM
I know, I know its just sooooooooooooo frustrating/upsetting all at the same time.

Some days I even get a bit angry at Mr Jackson for putting us through this, but I know in my heart he must have had a VERY good reason.

We are human though, and every day and every new post I read brings forth some new and unexpected emotion. I fluctuate between 2,3 & 4 on a sometimes hourly basis. I neeeeeeeeeeeed to know whether he is ok. Never imagined this would effect me so much. I just want to know whether to hope or to grieve and I have no clue.

I nursed many people in their final hours and you know what? I Loved it. Not because of death, but because I felt that I always treated every terminal patient with complete dignity and respect. If they had no family I would sit and hold their hand. There is nothing on earth I have ever felt more privalleged in doing than to nurse someone right to the end and beyond. Us nurses always open the window when a patient has passed to allow the soul to leave etc.

So I am actually upbeat and spiritual about death and dying and have always viewed it as a process. Added to this I believe in heaven and feel that death is a kind of beginning as well as an end.

Trouble is, all my training, experience and spiritual views have taken an extended holiday since June 25th! I thought that would only be the case if (God forbid) I lost someone close to me. But here I am and because I have a belief in all things spiritual I strongly feel theres a REASON I/we cant let go and I think that reason is that we somehow know intuitively (putting the  evidence aside) that it just was NOT his time.

I dont know. Theres so many what ifs that my head is spinning. :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline CC

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 04:31:20 PM
hi all,
I'm on the first stage and i will continue there, HE IS NOT DEAD. (DOT)
 :lol:  :roll:
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 04:46:28 PM by CC »
Some men see things as they are and say: WHY?
I dream things that never were and say: WHY NOT?

Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 04:36:26 PM
I love Michael Jackson.  I know he loves the fans.  Where ever he is I pray he is safe and at peace.  I know that if he could he would communicate with us.  He has that kind of heart.  So for Michael, (and Mel, he is family, lol,) I'll wait it out as long as it takes.  Just please God let him be okay.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Offline princesspea

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
I love Michael Jackson.  I know he loves the fans.  Where ever he is I pray he is safe and at peace.  I know that if he could he would communicate with us.  He has that kind of heart.  So for Michael, (and Mel, he is family, lol,) I'll wait it out as long as it takes.  Just please God let him be okay.

He's not my family..........he's my future husband! :lol:  :D  :lol:  :D  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline princesspea

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 28, 2009, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: "CC"
hi all,
I'm on the first stage and i will continue there, HE IS NOT DEAD. (DOT)
 :lol:  :roll:


Well said! :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline Syringa

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 29, 2009, 07:30:58 AM
I bet I'm stuck with the first one for the rest of my life.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Melzy777

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 29, 2009, 08:02:54 AM
Thanks Melanie!!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 08:57:06 AM by Melzy777 »
"They're coming to a rock and roll concert and watching television. That says it all." - Larry Mullen jr on the ZooTV experience.

Offline princesspea

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Re: 5 stages of grief (this may/may not help?)

  • on: November 29, 2009, 10:09:52 AM
Thanks so much for that Melzy777. We started a thread on the general chat section about spirituality as a few of us asked for signs (and got them) and had strange dreams.

Please please go onto it and tell us in more detail about your experiences and signs etc as theres quite a few of us who are very open to all this and we love chatting about it! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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