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A response to MJAlive999
January 15, 2010, 11:53:19 PM
I PM'd you on youtube, MJAlive999.  I'm going to briefly re-state what I said in the message, because I feel it is important.  

Obviously, many people here feel that Mike is sending a message to the world for the "sheeple" to wake up and see how the world is changing, and not in a positive way.  Many folks believe in concepts called the New World Order, the Illuminati, etc.  And they feel that Michael is trying to warn us of the evil intentions of the NWO plan -- some even believe that the antichrist or the devil is directly involved in the nwo.  They believe that Mike is trying to tell us that a huge change is coming fast -- I personally feel that after Obama was elected, this country started moving in a direction that most people thought was going to be a very positive and fresh new approach.  Now many are starting to realize, even those who voted for him, that the country is actually moving in a very scary direction...towards socialism and maybe even worse! (police state, communism, nwo, etc).  I see that with my own eyes and it scares the living daylights out of me.  I don't want my country, the FREE country that I grew up in, to change in that direction.  I don't want the government having control over my life.  

Maybe that's what Michael means by the greatest demonstration of FREEDOM in the history of our nation/the world.  We must prevent the current world leaders from taking away our freedom (because that is the inevitable result of socialism, communism, facism, etc).  

PLEASE, hoax believers, tell me if you think I am on the right track here...  Because if I'm not, I'll keep my mouth shut.  My theories about the hoax enter into the political landscape; and that is often a dangerous place to go.  I usually keep my politics to myself.  For example, many countries around the world hate the USA because we are a FREE society.  We don't believe that the gov't should put everyone on the same playing field (socialism); because that is not real freedom.   Was Michael Jackson a socialist?  A capitalist? Does his message have ANYTHING to do with politics at all?  

Anyway, I'm digressing a bit.  Unfortunately, I do see a few serious problems with what I think is Michael's message, imo.  First of all, so many people don't even believe that he is still alive, so I am afraid the message will never reach enough people.  Second, very few of the hoax believers are in any kind of position to actually go out there and try to change something as vast as the nwo, if it really exists.  Many members are young, and don't even understand yet the way the world works from the inside...how much of what we see (from the media) is an illusion, etc.  Btw, does anyone know if Michael was a fan of the movie, "The Matrix"? If so, then I think Michael is trying to tell us to:

TAKE THE RED PILL!!!!!!!  NOW!!!!!!  

Anyway, another problem I've seen with this hoax is how cryptic the clues are/were.  Again, for those of us who are paying attention, it makes the whole thing seem like just a game.  (sorry Michael, I'm just attempting to get into the minds of those who are confused/frustrated over all of this). Maybe it's just me, but a message as SERIOUS as "Watch out for the nwo, illuminati, communism/facism, the antichrist, etc.", imo, maybe shouldn't be presented to us like the game CLUE .  But then again, maybe dropping clues was the only way Michael could have done this safely.

I DO feel that people, now, are MORE concerned with WHAT Michael is trying to tell us as opposed to "When will he make his big comeback"?  Personally, as I said to MJAlive999 on youtube, I don't concern myself with a comeback at all.  We all have enough fantastic Jackson music from the pop genre to last a lifetime.  And to be fair to those who DO keep asking about the comeback -- I think most of them TRULY just want to know that he is alive & well, more so than when he will be back to entertain us again.  If he was  murdered by powerful people who DON'T want the sheeple to wake up, well...that still fits in to the whole "Michael has a message for us" theory, too.

What troubles me the most is the media.  Many feel that LKL, TMZ, AEG, CAngel, etc are all in on this hoax.  Certain things were staged, etc.  It looked like Michael needed the cooperation of MANY in the entertainment industry to pull this off.  But if you look at the videos of a youtuber named EsotericKitten, she believes that the whole entertainment industry and media is CONTROLLED by the Illuminati.  Why would MJ enlist the help/assistance of the media if he knew that they are already under the spell of the very EVIL institution that he is trying to warn us about????  Hmm...

One more thing.  It's possible (I've heard this from others), that Mike's message may be entirely religious in nature.  i.e. The return, the resurrection, "soon very soon, we are going to see the King", etc.  To be perfectly honest, THAT is a heavy, HEAVY concept to ponder; and I am very doubtful that many people would ever accept the possibility of Michael being a supernatural being (Jesus Christ or an angel sent to warn us of Jesus' return).   This kind of ties in with the whole 2012, endtimes, or spiritual transformation theme.  If THIS is the "red pill" we are supposed to swallow, it surely is the biggest, hardest pill I, personally, will ever have to swallow in my life!!...as it would be for many others too.  I was reading on some other forum not too long ago -- these were MJ fans who felt that he is indeed dead (from drugs/murder); and they were commenting on how sorry they felt for us hoax believers who have gone so far as to say that MJ's death has a Biblical/spiritual purpose.  They laughed at our "delusion".  And I gotta admit, as much as I am desperately trying to look at any and all possibilities for the hoax, I think this one is really hard to believe...

Also, other theories are still out there and have been discussed a Ba-Zillion times...i.e. Michael's efforts to expose the Hollywood DrFeelGood's, etc...  How do we come to the right conclusions?

Two final points: 1) I get a little frustrated at those who keep telling us to "open our eyes", the "evidence is right in front of you!", "wake up!", etc. (Sorry moderators!)  This frustrates me for several reasons: A) the evidence, although YES, is there...the clues are everywhere...they are still quite cryptic & sometimes vague, sometimes hard to believe (especially if you are more scientific in the way your brain is wired and are not prone to believing in things you cannot experience with your 5 senses, conspiracies, the Bible, etc).  B) as I mentioned before, and I mean no disrespect here, but I think as you get older, it gets harder to believe in things like this as your brain becomes more practical, more hardened, more cynical; and thus it's more likely I personally would hear a comment like, "Oh that is all so ridiculous! Michael is dead! Grow up! A conspiracy?! HaHa! Take off your tin foil hat!" from my peers (I'm in my 40's, older than probably most folks here).  So, WILL his message reach ENOUGH people!?!?  Maybe he's just targeting the younger generations, because they are the ones in the best position to actually CHANGE things for the better?

                          2) I've decided that the "message" must be one of the following things: a) stop the nwo;  b) get right with God because Jesus is nearer than we think;  c) or something as simple and plain as 'love one another, be kind to one another, be charitable, stop being such a materialistic, superficial, self centered society and give of yourself to others.  Would he fake his death for any of these messages?

Whew!  That's my final answer and I'm sticking to it.  Am I on the right track or WAY off base?  Please give me your insights; I respect everyone's opinion here!!!  :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Who looks outside, dreams.  Who looks inside, awakes".  (Carl Jung)

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 12:16:11 AM
he may have wanted to show us the many HOAXes there are and how easily people belive.  hoaxes like 911. jfk, jfk jr. global warming, the stimulus package, hoax, hoax, he can come out and say  yup just another hoax..hehe.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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" if you belive clap your hands" Peter pan.

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: "suzie and me also"
he may have wanted to show us the many HOAXes there are and how easily people belive.  hoaxes like 911. jfk, jfk jr. global warming, the stimulus package, hoax, hoax, he can come out and say  yup just another hoax..hehe.


GREAT point, suzieandmealso!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Who looks outside, dreams.  Who looks inside, awakes".  (Carl Jung)

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 02:08:39 AM
Quote from: "SomethingReal"
I PM'd you on youtube, MJAlive999.  I'm going to briefly re-state what I said in the message, because I feel it is important.  

Obviously, many people here feel that Mike is sending a message to the world for the "sheeple" to wake up and see how the world is changing, and not in a positive way.  Many folks believe in concepts called the New World Order, the Illuminati, etc.  And they feel that Michael is trying to warn us of the evil intentions of the NWO plan -- some even believe that the antichrist or the devil is directly involved in the nwo.  They believe that Mike is trying to tell us that a huge change is coming fast -- I personally feel that after Obama was elected, this country started moving in a direction that most people thought was going to be a very positive and fresh new approach.  Now many are starting to realize, even those who voted for him, that the country is actually moving in a very scary direction...towards socialism and maybe even worse! (police state, communism, nwo, etc).  I see that with my own eyes and it scares the living daylights out of me.  I don't want my country, the FREE country that I grew up in, to change in that direction.  I don't want the government having control over my life.  

Maybe that's what Michael means by the greatest demonstration of FREEDOM in the history of our nation/the world.  We must prevent the current world leaders from taking away our freedom (because that is the inevitable result of socialism, communism, facism, etc).  

PLEASE, hoax believers, tell me if you think I am on the right track here...  Because if I'm not, I'll keep my mouth shut.  My theories about the hoax enter into the political landscape; and that is often a dangerous place to go.  I usually keep my politics to myself.  For example, many countries around the world hate the USA because we are a FREE society.  We don't believe that the gov't should put everyone on the same playing field (socialism); because that is not real freedom.   Was Michael Jackson a socialist?  A capitalist? Does his message have ANYTHING to do with politics at all?  

Anyway, I'm digressing a bit.  Unfortunately, I do see a few serious problems with what I think is Michael's message, imo.  First of all, so many people don't even believe that he is still alive, so I am afraid the message will never reach enough people.  Second, very few of the hoax believers are in any kind of position to actually go out there and try to change something as vast as the nwo, if it really exists.  Many members are young, and don't even understand yet the way the world works from the inside...how much of what we see (from the media) is an illusion, etc.  Btw, does anyone know if Michael was a fan of the movie, "The Matrix"? If so, then I think Michael is trying to tell us to:

TAKE THE RED PILL!!!!!!!  NOW!!!!!!  

Anyway, another problem I've seen with this hoax is how cryptic the clues are/were.  Again, for those of us who are paying attention, it makes the whole thing seem like just a game.  (sorry Michael, I'm just attempting to get into the minds of those who are confused/frustrated over all of this). Maybe it's just me, but a message as SERIOUS as "Watch out for the nwo, illuminati, communism/facism, the antichrist, etc.", imo, maybe shouldn't be presented to us like the game CLUE .  But then again, maybe dropping clues was the only way Michael could have done this safely.

I DO feel that people, now, are MORE concerned with WHAT Michael is trying to tell us as opposed to "When will he make his big comeback"?  Personally, as I said to MJAlive999 on youtube, I don't concern myself with a comeback at all.  We all have enough fantastic Jackson music from the pop genre to last a lifetime.  And to be fair to those who DO keep asking about the comeback -- I think most of them TRULY just want to know that he is alive & well, more so than when he will be back to entertain us again.  If he was  murdered by powerful people who DON'T want the sheeple to wake up, well...that still fits in to the whole "Michael has a message for us" theory, too.

What troubles me the most is the media.  Many feel that LKL, TMZ, AEG, CAngel, etc are all in on this hoax.  Certain things were staged, etc.  It looked like Michael needed the cooperation of MANY in the entertainment industry to pull this off.  But if you look at the videos of a youtuber named EsotericKitten, she believes that the whole entertainment industry and media is CONTROLLED by the Illuminati.  Why would MJ enlist the help/assistance of the media if he knew that they are already under the spell of the very EVIL institution that he is trying to warn us about????  Hmm...

One more thing.  It's possible (I've heard this from others), that Mike's message may be entirely religious in nature.  i.e. The return, the resurrection, "soon very soon, we are going to see the King", etc.  To be perfectly honest, THAT is a heavy, HEAVY concept to ponder; and I am very doubtful that many people would ever accept the possibility of Michael being a supernatural being (Jesus Christ or an angel sent to warn us of Jesus' return).   This kind of ties in with the whole 2012, endtimes, or spiritual transformation theme.  If THIS is the "red pill" we are supposed to swallow, it surely is the biggest, hardest pill I, personally, will ever have to swallow in my life!!...as it would be for many others too.  I was reading on some other forum not too long ago -- these were MJ fans who felt that he is indeed dead (from drugs/murder); and they were commenting on how sorry they felt for us hoax believers who have gone so far as to say that MJ's death has a Biblical/spiritual purpose.  They laughed at our "delusion".  And I gotta admit, as much as I am desperately trying to look at any and all possibilities for the hoax, I think this one is really hard to believe...

Also, other theories are still out there and have been discussed a Ba-Zillion times...i.e. Michael's efforts to expose the Hollywood DrFeelGood's, etc...  How do we come to the right conclusions?

Two final points: 1) I get a little frustrated at those who keep telling us to "open our eyes", the "evidence is right in front of you!", "wake up!", etc. (Sorry moderators!)  This frustrates me for several reasons: A) the evidence, although YES, is there...the clues are everywhere...they are still quite cryptic & sometimes vague, sometimes hard to believe (especially if you are more scientific in the way your brain is wired and are not prone to believing in things you cannot experience with your 5 senses, conspiracies, the Bible, etc).  B) as I mentioned before, and I mean no disrespect here, but I think as you get older, it gets harder to believe in things like this as your brain becomes more practical, more hardened, more cynical; and thus it's more likely I personally would hear a comment like, "Oh that is all so ridiculous! Michael is dead! Grow up! A conspiracy?! HaHa! Take off your tin foil hat!" from my peers (I'm in my 40's, older than probably most folks here).  So, WILL his message reach ENOUGH people!?!?  Maybe he's just targeting the younger generations, because they are the ones in the best position to actually CHANGE things for the better?

                          2) I've decided that the "message" must be one of the following things: a) stop the nwo;  b) get right with God because Jesus is nearer than we think;  c) or something as simple and plain as 'love one another, be kind to one another, be charitable, stop being such a materialistic, superficial, self centered society and give of yourself to others.  Would he fake his death for any of these messages?

Whew!  That's my final answer and I'm sticking to it.  Am I on the right track or WAY off base?  Please give me your insights; I respect everyone's opinion here!!!  :)


hi somethingreal

i was at your situation before, the difference is am not really clever about this kind of politics things because i don't like politics.
i can't tell you too much here. but i agree with you, even am afraid that with this cryptic messages, not many people will understand.
if we the total of the believers and non-believers, we are the believers are so small, and if we compare among us the believers, i'm sure that just couple who will understand the reason behind this hoax.
so at the end i came with my conclusion to do everything in my life in a better way, i have been trying to do some good and noble things in relationship with other people. because i think, if can't do that big thing like michael to change this world, i'm sure i can do it in my small world, just start from the little thing, with the hope from there, i could do something bigger and bigger to change this world.

point no 1 is too difficult for me
point no 2 i don't think he would fake his death just to say this

maybe the reason is in between them or even combination of them (no 1 and 2).

i hope you don't work to hard on this, just try to do something small first, maybe from there you will soon understand the big picture.

it is what i have been doing (maybe you can read my post at Mjalive999 topic), so you will understand what i mean.

love
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 03:01:04 AM
Please SOMETHINGREAL, tell me, what does this rant do in the "breaking news" section ?

Now, when I come to this site I only read the breaking news section because the kind of theories you developped above gets on my nerves and I carefully avoid the zones where I could find them. In theory, the breaking news section is one of them, because it's about the latest news published in the world.
So, please, be good, post your "NWO" and "antichrist" theories in the section where they belong.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 06:27:59 AM
I thought I'd post here with a few thoughts...

I'm not that religious, although I do believe.  I remember one things that my grandmother and mother used to say, when they saw and heard about what what was going on in the world 'we're nearing the end'.  I believe what they said - we are nearring the end.

Didn't Jesus himself say that there would be floods, famine,earthquakes and wars before the end of time - we are seeing all these things happening at the moment.

I'm not sure whether or not Michael was sent to warn us about the end of time, but it is a possibility...
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Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: "SomethingReal"
I PM'd you on youtube, MJAlive999.  I'm going to briefly re-state what I said in the message, because I feel it is important.  

Obviously, many people here feel that Mike is sending a message to the world for the "sheeple" to wake up and see how the world is changing, and not in a positive way.  Many folks believe in concepts called the New World Order, the Illuminati, etc.  And they feel that Michael is trying to warn us of the evil intentions of the NWO plan -- some even believe that the antichrist or the devil is directly involved in the nwo.  They believe that Mike is trying to tell us that a huge change is coming fast -- I personally feel that after Obama was elected, this country started moving in a direction that most people thought was going to be a very positive and fresh new approach.  Now many are starting to realize, even those who voted for him, that the country is actually moving in a very scary direction...towards socialism and maybe even worse! (police state, communism, nwo, etc).  I see that with my own eyes and it scares the living daylights out of me.  I don't want my country, the FREE country that I grew up in, to change in that direction.  I don't want the government having control over my life.  

Maybe that's what Michael means by the greatest demonstration of FREEDOM in the history of our nation/the world.  We must prevent the current world leaders from taking away our freedom (because that is the inevitable result of socialism, communism, facism, etc).  

PLEASE, hoax believers, tell me if you think I am on the right track here...  Because if I'm not, I'll keep my mouth shut.  My theories about the hoax enter into the political landscape; and that is often a dangerous place to go.  I usually keep my politics to myself.  For example, many countries around the world hate the USA because we are a FREE society.  We don't believe that the gov't should put everyone on the same playing field (socialism); because that is not real freedom.   Was Michael Jackson a socialist?  A capitalist? Does his message have ANYTHING to do with politics at all?  

Anyway, I'm digressing a bit.  Unfortunately, I do see a few serious problems with what I think is Michael's message, imo.  First of all, so many people don't even believe that he is still alive, so I am afraid the message will never reach enough people.  Second, very few of the hoax believers are in any kind of position to actually go out there and try to change something as vast as the nwo, if it really exists.  Many members are young, and don't even understand yet the way the world works from the inside...how much of what we see (from the media) is an illusion, etc.  Btw, does anyone know if Michael was a fan of the movie, "The Matrix"? If so, then I think Michael is trying to tell us to:

TAKE THE RED PILL!!!!!!!  NOW!!!!!!  

Anyway, another problem I've seen with this hoax is how cryptic the clues are/were.  Again, for those of us who are paying attention, it makes the whole thing seem like just a game.  (sorry Michael, I'm just attempting to get into the minds of those who are confused/frustrated over all of this). Maybe it's just me, but a message as SERIOUS as "Watch out for the nwo, illuminati, communism/facism, the antichrist, etc.", imo, maybe shouldn't be presented to us like the game CLUE .  But then again, maybe dropping clues was the only way Michael could have done this safely.

I DO feel that people, now, are MORE concerned with WHAT Michael is trying to tell us as opposed to "When will he make his big comeback"?  Personally, as I said to MJAlive999 on youtube, I don't concern myself with a comeback at all.  We all have enough fantastic Jackson music from the pop genre to last a lifetime.  And to be fair to those who DO keep asking about the comeback -- I think most of them TRULY just want to know that he is alive & well, more so than when he will be back to entertain us again.  If he was  murdered by powerful people who DON'T want the sheeple to wake up, well...that still fits in to the whole "Michael has a message for us" theory, too.

What troubles me the most is the media.  Many feel that LKL, TMZ, AEG, CAngel, etc are all in on this hoax.  Certain things were staged, etc.  It looked like Michael needed the cooperation of MANY in the entertainment industry to pull this off.  But if you look at the videos of a youtuber named EsotericKitten, she believes that the whole entertainment industry and media is CONTROLLED by the Illuminati.  Why would MJ enlist the help/assistance of the media if he knew that they are already under the spell of the very EVIL institution that he is trying to warn us about????  Hmm...

One more thing.  It's possible (I've heard this from others), that Mike's message may be entirely religious in nature.  i.e. The return, the resurrection, "soon very soon, we are going to see the King", etc.  To be perfectly honest, THAT is a heavy, HEAVY concept to ponder; and I am very doubtful that many people would ever accept the possibility of Michael being a supernatural being (Jesus Christ or an angel sent to warn us of Jesus' return).   This kind of ties in with the whole 2012, endtimes, or spiritual transformation theme.  If THIS is the "red pill" we are supposed to swallow, it surely is the biggest, hardest pill I, personally, will ever have to swallow in my life!!...as it would be for many others too.  I was reading on some other forum not too long ago -- these were MJ fans who felt that he is indeed dead (from drugs/murder); and they were commenting on how sorry they felt for us hoax believers who have gone so far as to say that MJ's death has a Biblical/spiritual purpose.  They laughed at our "delusion".  And I gotta admit, as much as I am desperately trying to look at any and all possibilities for the hoax, I think this one is really hard to believe...

Also, other theories are still out there and have been discussed a Ba-Zillion times...i.e. Michael's efforts to expose the Hollywood DrFeelGood's, etc...  How do we come to the right conclusions?

Two final points: 1) I get a little frustrated at those who keep telling us to "open our eyes", the "evidence is right in front of you!", "wake up!", etc. (Sorry moderators!)  This frustrates me for several reasons: A) the evidence, although YES, is there...the clues are everywhere...they are still quite cryptic & sometimes vague, sometimes hard to believe (especially if you are more scientific in the way your brain is wired and are not prone to believing in things you cannot experience with your 5 senses, conspiracies, the Bible, etc).  B) as I mentioned before, and I mean no disrespect here, but I think as you get older, it gets harder to believe in things like this as your brain becomes more practical, more hardened, more cynical; and thus it's more likely I personally would hear a comment like, "Oh that is all so ridiculous! Michael is dead! Grow up! A conspiracy?! HaHa! Take off your tin foil hat!" from my peers (I'm in my 40's, older than probably most folks here).  So, WILL his message reach ENOUGH people!?!?  Maybe he's just targeting the younger generations, because they are the ones in the best position to actually CHANGE things for the better?

                          2) I've decided that the "message" must be one of the following things: a) stop the nwo;  b) get right with God because Jesus is nearer than we think;  c) or something as simple and plain as 'love one another, be kind to one another, be charitable, stop being such a materialistic, superficial, self centered society and give of yourself to others.  Would he fake his death for any of these messages?

Whew!  That's my final answer and I'm sticking to it.  Am I on the right track or WAY off base?  Please give me your insights; I respect everyone's opinion here!!!  :)

Dear SomethingReal,

Reading your post made me realize that we are from such different worlds and everything that bonds us is media and english language. Your knowledge of socialism is different then mine, you've been told different. Socialism has nothing to do with NWO, NWO is more like imperialism ???, and socialism is something for people, nation, they own everything, everyone is taken care of... you probably think and asociate socialism with something bad because they told you that in your country....believe me....it's not like that. It's hard to create the system that is good for everyone, but the best one is the one that is good for people and environment, capitalism is good for few and is bad for environment. US media created and made other systems look bad on the other hand I would never live in the US...and SomethingReal, can please pm me so we can talk about communism/fascism....if you want  ;)
We are all feeling that MJ is sending us message about something, my biggest thought is MEDIA, they can create everything and control everything it's like making a movie. We have to be careful, we have to spread love, don't judge something you don't know anything about, just because they told us so.....We have to love each other, respect each other and fight against  media brainwashing. All we can do for MJ is to boycot tabloids, TMZ (they are making money from his name as well), try and wash his name, at least for his children.
SoemthingReal it's all for L.O.V.E., that's why I posted this
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 10:58:23 AM
^^I agree with u. I don't think socialism is a bad thing...Here in America,  I think they (the ones in power) told/brainwashed Americans that socialism is a bad thing...that's because they feel threatned. Capitalism keeps the few in power on top of the "little people", while socialism is an attempt on equality, i.e. something Mj and Obama believe in. Don't be fooled by the socialism scare tactics.... the elite just don't want to lose power....
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: "BlessHisHeart"
^^I agree with u. I don't think socialism is a bad thing...Here in America,  I think they (the ones in power) told/brainwashed Americans that socialism is a bad thing...that's because they feel threatned. Capitalism keeps the few in power on top of the "little people", while socialism is an attempt on equality, i.e. something Mj and Obama believe in. Don't be fooled by the socialism scare tactics.... the elite just don't want to lose power....


@ michaelangela and blesshisheart

i understand now, thank you

you are right, i live in new zealand, and this country is a socialist country (i htink). we are all have support from government in education and health, also living cost if we lost our job....so people here still can live normal. the government try to avoid poorness, all are live in equality.
but yeah we still have rich people, but government feeds the poor, so everybody get the same from government...

am i right?

this is interesting.....so, if Michael and Obama like socialism, maybe some people who have power (NWO) they don't like this, they have a reason to finish him....

please tell me if am going wrong....cheers
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 05:46:02 PM
Quote from: "BlessHisHeart"
^^I agree with u. I don't think socialism is a bad thing...Here in America,  I think they (the ones in power) told/brainwashed Americans that socialism is a bad thing...that's because they feel threatned. Capitalism keeps the few in power on top of the "little people", while socialism is an attempt on equality, i.e. something Mj and Obama believe in. Don't be fooled by the socialism scare tactics.... the elite just don't want to lose power....

Do I dare even to comment in this thread?  Issues I am very passionate about and active in? Hmmm..

Sorry, but I can't stop myself.

I've had numerous discussions about this with other invested people who are "on the front lines" in regards to this issue, i.e.,social psychologists, professors, social workers, etc.  It seems to me most people object to socialism because it actually takes away the American values of "you can do anything you set your mind to and go as far as you want to".  In a way it takes the power and pride away from people, because, essentially, one person's wealth is essentially mandated to be taken away from them and mandated to be spread out to the ones who are less fortunate.  For those less fortunate, the motivating desire to "dream big" is taken away.  There's no need or desire to feel you can "conquer the world" .  There's nothing to aspire "to".  The "American Dream" is gone.  

In regards to my personal opinion, I believe that everyone should dream as big as they want to, work hard as they want to, or earn as much money to live the life they want to.  I do not want my government telling me how to spend my very hard earned money.  I prefer to live in a free country where I can make my own choices.  If someone wants to become the next MJ (not really, cause he's simply irreplaceable!), there's nothing stopping him or her.  It opens the door to encourage a more creative, more competitive, and more innovative society.  This is at the heart of American history and values.  There are many other people who are against socialism because they feel it will prevent those who are struggling to reach even higher.  It's interesting because I grew up in the Midwest near where Michael was raised and we both share the traditional midwest values where hard work pays off and that you can accomplish as you much as you put your mind to.  I am glad Mr. Joe Jackson believed in the American Dream--that his children could accomplish anything they wanted to with hard work and determination!  I have to be honest and say that I question if things would've been the same under a different political and value system.  One system is not better than the other, but I do think it shapes and influences the outcomes.  

Thanks Somethingreal, for your honest and courageous post.  It's stuff like this that begins important dialogue.  The bottom line is that regardless of how perceptive and intelligent we all are on this forum, and despite how many well-thought out theories there are, when it comes down to it, none of us really know what the hell is going on behind the scenes or the reasons behind MJ's death. We can certainly give our best guess, but it's important for us to remain humble and honest about that reality.
Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 07:09:15 PM by kingofmystery
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."  Margaret Mead

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 06:12:12 PM
as i said this is a matter of faith.
I don't believe Michael did it to protest something that happened to him. (he always was more concerned with other people)and thinking about the world... the HOAX, would be selfishness if was just for him.
give me some time and i will do a big post about it!
(it involves  religion, apocalypse, 2012, prophecies, nwo, obama) and... my intention is to make it as clear as possible.
before... maybe you will say it's all coincidence but... remember all the evidence about MJ being alive. are not only coincidences for many of you, right? they are proofs! (remember ''V'' there are no coincidences) So, have an open mind 'cause there are facts happening now with odd consequences (and maybe odd causes). and those events maybe are just the begnning of the ''end''. (perhaps this is just paranoia(I hope it is) but if not ... I'd rather be aware of the facts ^^) sorry for any english mistake ... when I'm writing, I have an explosion of ideas :P)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

Sarahli

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 06:22:38 PM
I know this post is for MJalive999 but I wanted to say some things.
If some countries or people "hate" the USA (I do hate GOVERNMENTS never the people) I don't think it's because it is a "FREE" country but rather because of its hegemony and its willing to impose its supremacy to the world. I don't think that spreading its army (not of LOVE) all around the world is a good message for FREEDOM. Do you know that there are more american soldiers' deaths due to suicide than by fighting. Something is wrong, no.

"The American Dream" I really don't know what to think about it. A dream is not reality. Accomplishment, realization, achievment is not in the material, the glory or the fame, the money or the lust. I think it's spiritual and the problem nowadays is that people only think material not spiritual. Even some of those who claim to have faith in God follow the material way imposed by the Elites.

I know it's hard to have any certainty about the reasons of this hoax but if we look at Michael's messages throughout his career, his interviews, his songs we can have more than hypothesis and be able to approach certainty.

God Bless You
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 16, 2010, 06:35:21 PM
Sarahli,

Without first a dream, there is no reality.  Dreams, goals, and vision are the mandatory beginnings to accomplishing a reality.  This is partially why Michael believed so much in children, as they were not jaded by life to stop believing in their dreams.  It's that critical belief in oneself and utilizing one's God-given talents and abilities that make all dreams possible.  This is what I interpret as being the "American Dream".  It's not about being self-absorbed, but rather, making the most out of one's life with determination, sacrifice, and hard work.  It's about "dreaming big" in all that one chooses to do in life.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."  Margaret Mead

*

Sarahli

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 17, 2010, 12:06:09 PM
Quote from: "kingofmystery"
Sarahli,

Without first a dream, there is no reality.  Dreams, goals, and vision are the mandatory beginnings to accomplishing a reality.  This is partially why Michael believed so much in children, as they were not jaded by life to stop believing in their dreams.  It's that critical belief in oneself and utilizing one's God-given talents and abilities that make all dreams possible.  This is what I interpret as being the "American Dream".  It's not about being self-absorbed, but rather, making the most out of one's life with determination, sacrifice, and hard work.  It's about "dreaming big" in all that one chooses to do in life.


Thanks for your answer and I completely understand it. I know that dreams are necessary first to make it reality, to make dreams come true... but what I critize is the "American Dream" as a reality, what is the reality of the "American dream" for most of American people ?

I absolutely don't deny the fact that dreaming is the best thing to begin with in order to get inspiration, strenght to carry on projects, hopes...

God Bless You
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Re: A response to MJAlive999
January 17, 2010, 12:33:41 PM
Quote from: "Michaelangela"
Quote from: "SomethingReal"
I PM'd you on youtube, MJAlive999.  I'm going to briefly re-state what I said in the message, because I feel it is important.  

Obviously, many people here feel that Mike is sending a message to the world for the "sheeple" to wake up and see how the world is changing, and not in a positive way.  Many folks believe in concepts called the New World Order, the Illuminati, etc.  And they feel that Michael is trying to warn us of the evil intentions of the NWO plan -- some even believe that the antichrist or the devil is directly involved in the nwo.  They believe that Mike is trying to tell us that a huge change is coming fast -- I personally feel that after Obama was elected, this country started moving in a direction that most people thought was going to be a very positive and fresh new approach.  Now many are starting to realize, even those who voted for him, that the country is actually moving in a very scary direction...towards socialism and maybe even worse! (police state, communism, nwo, etc).  I see that with my own eyes and it scares the living daylights out of me.  I don't want my country, the FREE country that I grew up in, to change in that direction.  I don't want the government having control over my life.  

Maybe that's what Michael means by the greatest demonstration of FREEDOM in the history of our nation/the world.  We must prevent the current world leaders from taking away our freedom (because that is the inevitable result of socialism, communism, facism, etc).  

PLEASE, hoax believers, tell me if you think I am on the right track here...  Because if I'm not, I'll keep my mouth shut.  My theories about the hoax enter into the political landscape; and that is often a dangerous place to go.  I usually keep my politics to myself.  For example, many countries around the world hate the USA because we are a FREE society.  We don't believe that the gov't should put everyone on the same playing field (socialism); because that is not real freedom.   Was Michael Jackson a socialist?  A capitalist? Does his message have ANYTHING to do with politics at all?  

Anyway, I'm digressing a bit.  Unfortunately, I do see a few serious problems with what I think is Michael's message, imo.  First of all, so many people don't even believe that he is still alive, so I am afraid the message will never reach enough people.  Second, very few of the hoax believers are in any kind of position to actually go out there and try to change something as vast as the nwo, if it really exists.  Many members are young, and don't even understand yet the way the world works from the inside...how much of what we see (from the media) is an illusion, etc.  Btw, does anyone know if Michael was a fan of the movie, "The Matrix"? If so, then I think Michael is trying to tell us to:

TAKE THE RED PILL!!!!!!!  NOW!!!!!!  

Anyway, another problem I've seen with this hoax is how cryptic the clues are/were.  Again, for those of us who are paying attention, it makes the whole thing seem like just a game.  (sorry Michael, I'm just attempting to get into the minds of those who are confused/frustrated over all of this). Maybe it's just me, but a message as SERIOUS as "Watch out for the nwo, illuminati, communism/facism, the antichrist, etc.", imo, maybe shouldn't be presented to us like the game CLUE .  But then again, maybe dropping clues was the only way Michael could have done this safely.

I DO feel that people, now, are MORE concerned with WHAT Michael is trying to tell us as opposed to "When will he make his big comeback"?  Personally, as I said to MJAlive999 on youtube, I don't concern myself with a comeback at all.  We all have enough fantastic Jackson music from the pop genre to last a lifetime.  And to be fair to those who DO keep asking about the comeback -- I think most of them TRULY just want to know that he is alive & well, more so than when he will be back to entertain us again.  If he was  murdered by powerful people who DON'T want the sheeple to wake up, well...that still fits in to the whole "Michael has a message for us" theory, too.

What troubles me the most is the media.  Many feel that LKL, TMZ, AEG, CAngel, etc are all in on this hoax.  Certain things were staged, etc.  It looked like Michael needed the cooperation of MANY in the entertainment industry to pull this off.  But if you look at the videos of a youtuber named EsotericKitten, she believes that the whole entertainment industry and media is CONTROLLED by the Illuminati.  Why would MJ enlist the help/assistance of the media if he knew that they are already under the spell of the very EVIL institution that he is trying to warn us about????  Hmm...

One more thing.  It's possible (I've heard this from others), that Mike's message may be entirely religious in nature.  i.e. The return, the resurrection, "soon very soon, we are going to see the King", etc.  To be perfectly honest, THAT is a heavy, HEAVY concept to ponder; and I am very doubtful that many people would ever accept the possibility of Michael being a supernatural being (Jesus Christ or an angel sent to warn us of Jesus' return).   This kind of ties in with the whole 2012, endtimes, or spiritual transformation theme.  If THIS is the "red pill" we are supposed to swallow, it surely is the biggest, hardest pill I, personally, will ever have to swallow in my life!!...as it would be for many others too.  I was reading on some other forum not too long ago -- these were MJ fans who felt that he is indeed dead (from drugs/murder); and they were commenting on how sorry they felt for us hoax believers who have gone so far as to say that MJ's death has a Biblical/spiritual purpose.  They laughed at our "delusion".  And I gotta admit, as much as I am desperately trying to look at any and all possibilities for the hoax, I think this one is really hard to believe...

Also, other theories are still out there and have been discussed a Ba-Zillion times...i.e. Michael's efforts to expose the Hollywood DrFeelGood's, etc...  How do we come to the right conclusions?

Two final points: 1) I get a little frustrated at those who keep telling us to "open our eyes", the "evidence is right in front of you!", "wake up!", etc. (Sorry moderators!)  This frustrates me for several reasons: A) the evidence, although YES, is there...the clues are everywhere...they are still quite cryptic & sometimes vague, sometimes hard to believe (especially if you are more scientific in the way your brain is wired and are not prone to believing in things you cannot experience with your 5 senses, conspiracies, the Bible, etc).  B) as I mentioned before, and I mean no disrespect here, but I think as you get older, it gets harder to believe in things like this as your brain becomes more practical, more hardened, more cynical; and thus it's more likely I personally would hear a comment like, "Oh that is all so ridiculous! Michael is dead! Grow up! A conspiracy?! HaHa! Take off your tin foil hat!" from my peers (I'm in my 40's, older than probably most folks here).  So, WILL his message reach ENOUGH people!?!?  Maybe he's just targeting the younger generations, because they are the ones in the best position to actually CHANGE things for the better?

                          2) I've decided that the "message" must be one of the following things: a) stop the nwo;  b) get right with God because Jesus is nearer than we think;  c) or something as simple and plain as 'love one another, be kind to one another, be charitable, stop being such a materialistic, superficial, self centered society and give of yourself to others.  Would he fake his death for any of these messages?

Whew!  That's my final answer and I'm sticking to it.  Am I on the right track or WAY off base?  Please give me your insights; I respect everyone's opinion here!!!  :)

Dear SomethingReal,

Reading your post made me realize that we are from such different worlds and everything that bonds us is media and english language. Your knowledge of socialism is different then mine, you've been told different. Socialism has nothing to do with NWO, NWO is more like imperialism ???, and socialism is something for people, nation, they own everything, everyone is taken care of... you probably think and asociate socialism with something bad because they told you that in your country....believe me....it's not like that. It's hard to create the system that is good for everyone, but the best one is the one that is good for people and environment, capitalism is good for few and is bad for environment. US media created and made other systems look bad on the other hand I would never live in the US...and SomethingReal, can please pm me so we can talk about communism/fascism....if you want  ;)
We are all feeling that MJ is sending us message about something, my biggest thought is MEDIA, they can create everything and control everything it's like making a movie. We have to be careful, we have to spread love, don't judge something you don't know anything about, just because they told us so.....We have to love each other, respect each other and fight against  media brainwashing. All we can do for MJ is to boycot tabloids, TMZ (they are making money from his name as well), try and wash his name, at least for his children.
SoemthingReal it's all for L.O.V.E., that's why I posted this


NWO and socialism go hand in hand.  You cannot have one world order and have capitalism or individualism survive.  NWO is every country ran under the control of a few; those few deciding what we will and will not have or do.  If the poeple of the world allow the NWO to form your individual rights will no longer exist.  We will be at the mercy of the few.  I'm not sure of other countries but this a hugh deal in the US.   IMO, a NWO would be detrimental to all the peoples of the world.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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