Police searching for missing tapes

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Offline nefari

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 25, 2011, 11:41:16 PM
This may sound dumb but do any of us really know if it is the usual practice for stars or anyone shy of a mobster to have security footage of what goes on in the bedroom, or the master bedroom I should say. I mean who wants their private moments on display. I mean we are all human. I for one don't want anyone seeing me blow my nose when I have a horrible cold, changing clothes, talking to Michael posters, making sexy faces while blasting 2000 watts, and all OTHER things that people do in their bedrooms!!!
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Offline bec

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 25, 2011, 11:51:17 PM
Nefari, Michael is long reputed to have his entire home under surveillance on CCTV, everywhere in the house, the grounds, inside and out, including his private quarters, everywhere. So it seems to be normal for him, or at least he wants us to think that it is.
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Offline MJonmind

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 12:27:51 AM
Quote from: "nefari"
This may sound dumb but do any of us really know if it is the usual practice for stars or anyone shy of a mobster to have security footage of what goes on in the bedroom, or the master bedroom I should say. I mean who wants their private moments on display. I mean we are all human. I for one don't want anyone seeing me blow my nose when I have a horrible cold, changing clothes, talking to Michael posters, making sexy faces while blasting 2000 watts, and all OTHER things that people do in their bedrooms!!!
:lol: And Michael so hated the paps secretly taking pics of him, even telling Barbara Walters that one had stuck a camera bug in the toilet. Hard choice between privacy and protection with security cameras.

Quote from: "bec"
Nefari, Michael is long reputed to have his entire home under surveillance on CCTV, everywhere in the house, the grounds, inside and out, including his private quarters, everywhere. So it seems to be normal for him, or at least he wants us to think that it is.
I guess it's to prevent theft. I think it was Katherine saying sometimes staff stole from them.
If that footage got into the wrong hands, it would be worth millions, especially clips of MJ and the kids.

My personal hunch if there is footage at all, is Latoya or T.T. have it, and at the right time in the hoax as it plays out, they will reveal more tidbits for us to dismantle and figure out. Afterall if the BAM is later this year or next, we need a lot of "food" to keep us going.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Grace

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 01:13:06 AM
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
If the family removed stuff i assume they did this to protect anything that was his? Perhaps they felt they couldn't trust whoever was in there.

It is well documented here - apparently there were trucks even 3 times at the house to clean it up.
http://http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2009/09/carolwood-move-1.html
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Offline sk2001

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 01:33:25 AM
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
http://http://www.masala.com/13491-mj---the-missing-tapes

Sorry to break it you but this is an Indian gosspi website and a wannabe tmz like. Being originally from India, I can assure you there as many such online tabloid sites. Trust me, I wouldn't believe this news, unless TMZ had it on there too and this site just copy pasted stuff. But media in India is known to make stuff up. Isn't it odd that they know about it in India and we in America don't know the tapes are being found again. I can try to find more such baseless articles to prove my point. Will post as soon as I find it.
PS- masala in English means spice. Such online tabloids add spice to gossip to sell. Just saying...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

RunFaYaLife

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 02:24:26 AM
If the security camera in MJ's bedroom were on....my bet is Latoya &family or
 Murray
after all....it is a fact that he was scurrying  around in that area for many WASTED minutes before the ambulance was called or even security. He had ample time to
do something like that.
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Offline nefari

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 04:29:28 AM
Makes me wonder if the guys in the ambulance didn't have some sort of previously wired system inside the ambulance itself that was set to view everything going on in that bedroom so they could arrive at a precise time on cue from Michael or Murray, when bogus phone calls were made etc...and maybe it's also how they could see Murray scurrying around or whatever they claimed they saw from the grounds outside.
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Offline shelby61

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 02:06:55 PM
I don't think MJ trusts the law enforcement or the DA's particularly in Santa Barbara after what they did to him during and after the trial, that is perhaps why the family went in and removed stuff.  

It is not what is supposed to happened but this is Michael's story and he has his reasons for doing it.  This is his way of presenting hiSTORY :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Heartsong

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 06:50:39 PM
So CM tells bodyguard Alvarez to remove drug paraphernalia before calling 911 and Alvarez mentions split IV bag containing propofol bottle as being one specific item CM asked him to remove, then family comes in and removes items, then scene is secured and Inspector Fleak removes more drug paraphernalia including the IV bag Alvarez claimed he removed. No mention of tapes in testimony. Not even a mention of a search for them.

My questions are, why, after Alavarez claimed he removed bottles and family came in before detectives, were there still bottles laying around for Insp. Fleak to bag? Why wouldn't family have picked up anything Alvarez missed? Why did family only concentrate on personal belongings and music archives? Why didn't CM order Alvarez to recover tapes if he was hiding something? To me only three options: CM has the tapes, family has the tapes or NYPD has tapes - no one is spilling and none of this adds up.
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Offline paula-c

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 07:25:00 PM
And when the police assumes that to begin to look for those tapes. ,19 months later :roll:

Offline mindseye

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
MJ has the tapes. :lol:


[youtube:qnobdkxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WK9Y9WjPTM&feature=related[/youtube:qnobdkxc]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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RunFaYaLife

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 08:38:23 PM
HaHa Mindseye...Love the sig line!
I was just listening to that song last night...I guess you could call is
dissecting it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

RunFaYaLife

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 08:40:44 PM
Quote
So CM tells bodyguard Alvarez to remove drug paraphernalia before calling 911 and Alvarez mentions split IV bag containing propofol bottle as being one specific item CM asked him to remove, then family comes in and removes items, then scene is secured and Inspector Fleak removes more drug paraphernalia including the IV bag Alvarez claimed he removed. No mention of tapes in testimony. Not even a mention of a search for them.

My questions are, why, after Alavarez claimed he removed bottles and family came in before detectives, were there still bottles laying around for Insp. Fleak to bag? Why wouldn't family have picked up anything Alvarez missed? Why did family only concentrate on personal belongings and music archives? Why didn't CM order Alvarez to recover tapes if he was hiding something? To me only three options: CM has the tapes, family has the tapes or NYPD has tapes - no one is spilling and none of this adds up.

Excellent summation!
I agree...the other thing IS....why did they let the family show up so quickly?
I am sure that has been discussed before.
Then there was that bloody shirt that they left hanging in the closest ...what was THAT About?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 10:12:38 PM
As well as the inside CTV camera's, there was also multiple outside cameras around the grounds and at the gate to see who was trying to enter...and there was an intercom system at the gate as well........

The footage of the entrance would show the ambulance arriving, them carrying MJ down to the ambulance and putting him in the back, and show everything else that happened outside on that day...including then backing out slowly.

If that footage got in the wrong hands, it would be published all over the tabloids, showing MJ dead and being resucitated.  It would be worth millions if that really were true.

We only have one pic taken by Ben Evensted of the final photo of MJ, which is definitely photoshopped.

1.  The family remembered to remove it before the media got their filthy hands on it, or

2.  Conrad Murray retrieved them when he went back to "Get the Cream" from the house because MJ wouldn't want the world knowing about it ?????

So why would Michael tell CM something so personal like that???  Did Michael say "If I die, can you remove the cream from my house" ????

Hmmmmmmmmm.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline bec

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 11:10:19 PM
Quote
definitely photoshopped.

Completely disagree. First off it's not "definitely" anything and second, there is no evidence of photo alterations present. Conversely, the fact that there are 3 slightly different frames, in essence 3 different ambulance pics, not one, is strong evidence that it is NOT altered in any way. Altering one would require altering 3, which would require 3 originals, all 3 of which would need to match angle and perspective and depth of field in order to match the background in all 3 ambulance pics that the face was pasted to. This process becomes so complex, and to complete it without any discernible shop lines 3 times... it quickly becomes obvious that it would be 100% easier and more realistic to STAGE the pic then to monkey around with shopping it.

If you shop it, someone can find out and prove it. PROVE in black and white that it's fake and hold it up for the world to see. That hasn't happened. No one in 19 months has proven it's shopped... only said it a lot with no real supporting evidence to back it up. Oxman says it was his opinion that it was 99% likely photoshopped. Wtf does that mean? 99% likely to be shopped in his opinion? So that means he doesn't know squat. He probably looked into less then we did, considering he used ANCIENT ago debunked evidence to "back up" his claim. Sorry Oxman, that's the wrong pic buddy. The angle of the face doesn't even match. And some are using this to back up the photoshop theory? Come on. Have we learned nothing? Oxman opened his mouth and spun a weak line of pathetic bullshit with nothing to back it up. It should have been an easy test to pass for even a beginner hoaxer. Oxman's statement=BullShit aka Gossip aka Hearsay aka He Made It Up.

Regardless, why bother with the elaborate trouble of, and giant RISK of shopping when you can just stage it. Get a MJ mannequin, pop it in an ambulance and take a pic from outside. Doesn't even have to be on 6/25/09. Can be any time. The risk of having someone not affiliated with the hoax be able to prove, and I mean PROVE, not just talk, that the ambulance pic is shopped, is way too big because it would take some control of the reveal and timing out of MJs hands. It would be a big mess, starting with a boat load of legal trouble for Ben, extending to who knows where. Is Ben gonna hold the course if he gets sued for slander and fraud and a bazillion dollars by ET? Wow, I don't know. Beyond that, it breaks the rule of staying within the legal boundaries. Working towards a presumed reveal/comeback, legal backlash should be reduced or eliminated as much as possible and this seems a dumb law to break when it can be so easily avoided. You can't sell a shopped or altered pic without disclosing that. Why take even the slightest chance when there's probably several Bad era MJ dummys at MJs disposal. The "MJ" in the pic appears to be MJ from the Bad era so does that mean the pic is fake? No, too big a jump in logic. It means the MJ is fake. That's all. You can't assume anything else from Bad era ambulance riding MJ in "final photo" without proof. And it just isn't there to support the photoshop theory.

I can rant forever on this. I need to shut up about it. It doesn't matter in the long run. Sooner or later he will tell us all the answers.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 26, 2011, 11:51:55 PM
Bec, I appreciated your knowledge about photoshopping...talking about the "last" photo can get messy.

There was probably no CTV turned on that day....so there was nothing to lie about ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Heartsong

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 27, 2011, 12:36:24 AM
Quote
RunFaYaLife wrote:
I agree...the other thing IS....why did they let the family show up so quickly?

Yeah almost like they were waiting out front to go in as soon as the ambulance drove out ...
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Offline curls

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 27, 2011, 02:55:46 AM
Bec, brilliant post about the photo! I'd love for the pic to be used in the trial - Q for EMT's: how come you didn't recognise MJ? A from EMT's: that pic is fake. Call Ben Evensted - explain yourself man!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline shelby61

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 27, 2011, 10:25:27 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Quote
definitely photoshopped.

Completely disagree. First off it's not "definitely" anything and second, there is no evidence of photo alterations present. Conversely, the fact that there are 3 slightly different frames, in essence 3 different ambulance pics, not one, is strong evidence that it is NOT altered in any way. Altering one would require altering 3, which would require 3 originals, all 3 of which would need to match angle and perspective and depth of field in order to match the background in all 3 ambulance pics that the face was pasted to. This process becomes so complex, and to complete it without any discernible shop lines 3 times... it quickly becomes obvious that it would be 100% easier and more realistic to STAGE the pic then to monkey around with shopping it.

If you shop it, someone can find out and prove it. PROVE in black and white that it's fake and hold it up for the world to see. That hasn't happened. No one in 19 months has proven it's shopped... only said it a lot with no real supporting evidence to back it up. Oxman says it was his opinion that it was 99% likely photoshopped. Wtf does that mean? 99% likely to be shopped in his opinion? So that means he doesn't know squat. He probably looked into less then we did, considering he used ANCIENT ago debunked evidence to "back up" his claim. Sorry Oxman, that's the wrong pic buddy. The angle of the face doesn't even match. And some are using this to back up the photoshop theory? Come on. Have we learned nothing? Oxman opened his mouth and spun a weak line of pathetic bullshit with nothing to back it up. It should have been an easy test to pass for even a beginner hoaxer. Oxman's statement=BullShit aka Gossip aka Hearsay aka He Made It Up.

Regardless, why bother with the elaborate trouble of, and giant RISK of shopping when you can just stage it. Get a MJ mannequin, pop it in an ambulance and take a pic from outside. Doesn't even have to be on 6/25/09. Can be any time. The risk of having someone not affiliated with the hoax be able to prove, and I mean PROVE, not just talk, that the ambulance pic is shopped, is way too big because it would take some control of the reveal and timing out of MJs hands. It would be a big mess, starting with a boat load of legal trouble for Ben, extending to who knows where. Is Ben gonna hold the course if he gets sued for slander and fraud and a bazillion dollars by ET? Wow, I don't know. Beyond that, it breaks the rule of staying within the legal boundaries. Working towards a presumed reveal/comeback, legal backlash should be reduced or eliminated as much as possible and this seems a dumb law to break when it can be so easily avoided. You can't sell a shopped or altered pic without disclosing that. Why take even the slightest chance when there's probably several Bad era MJ dummys at MJs disposal. The "MJ" in the pic appears to be MJ from the Bad era so does that mean the pic is fake? No, too big a jump in logic. It means the MJ is fake. That's all. You can't assume anything else from Bad era ambulance riding MJ in "final photo" without proof. And it just isn't there to support the photoshop theory.

I can rant forever on this. I need to shut up about it. It doesn't matter in the long run. Sooner or later he will tell us all the answers.

May be it was cropped but not photoshopped.. that is why there is 3 different angles of the "death" photo.  Oxman is just there to throw some curve balls in this Hoax.  I would not get too upset at what the has to say.
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Offline MJ_Facts

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 27, 2011, 10:44:17 AM
The question is: WHO HAD ENOUGH TIME TO STEEL THE FOOTAGE? AND WHEN WAS IT TAKEN? I highly doubt that an idiot like CM is able to handel such a complicate system. Besides, the article states that there were GAPS in the footage!!!!
WHAT DOES THIS EXACTLY MEAN?? AND WHO DELETED THEM AND WHEN? I GUESS THIS WOULD TAKE SOME TIME. SO THE WHOLE THING MUST HAVE BEEN PLANNED FROM THE BEGINNING ...
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Offline Heartsong

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 27, 2011, 05:34:26 PM
Quote from: "MJ_Facts"
The question is: WHO HAD ENOUGH TIME TO STEEL THE FOOTAGE? AND WHEN WAS IT TAKEN? I highly doubt that an idiot like CM is able to handel such a complicate system. Besides, the article states that there were GAPS in the footage!!!!
WHAT DOES THIS EXACTLY MEAN?? AND WHO DELETED THEM AND WHEN? I GUESS THIS WOULD TAKE SOME TIME. SO THE WHOLE THING MUST HAVE BEEN PLANNED FROM THE BEGINNING ...

Is the article from an authoritative source? If so, then the tapes at least exist. CC cameras don't automatically indicate recordings. I have heard of cases where cameras were not set to record even though they were running.

Assuming tapes exist, CM could have ordered one of the bodyguards to retrieve them. If he has them they must implicate him or surely he would have left them there, as this would have easily proven his innocence and avoided his trial.

If the family (including MJ) has them then surely they would have come forward with them in order TO implicate CM and prove his guilt, unless the recordings are to be used as evidence of guilt in the trial by the prosecution and they are therefore being held as an ace card.

On the other hand surely they would have been introduced if they proved his innocence. I would see no reason why anyone would want to force an innocent man to trial, especially if evidence exists to prove said innocence. If NYPD have the tapes all the more reason they should have been produced by now, IF they show no wrong doing by CM.

So imo, IF tapes exist, they are being held as evidence and will be brought forward in the trial or all staff who were in the house are complicit and CM has had them destroyed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 27, 2011, 05:41:37 PM
Quote from: "curls"
Bec, brilliant post about the photo! I'd love for the pic to be used in the trial - Q for EMT's: how come you didn't recognise MJ? A from EMT's: that pic is fake. Call Ben Evensted - explain yourself man!!

Also in the testimony at the prelim, it was stated that MJ had on pajamas and a shower cap in the ambulance.   :shock:  :shock:  Not what I saw I the picture.  did you?  Or did they take off the cap and put his wig on for a cameo shot?  Makes no sense.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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RunFaYaLife

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: January 28, 2011, 11:06:49 PM
Quote
Also in the testimony at the prelim, it was stated that MJ had on pajamas and a shower cap in the ambulance. :shock: :shock: Not what I saw I the picture. did you? Or did they take off the cap and put his wig on for a cameo shot? Makes no sense.


More things to ponder...

Okay...here is my take on that one...
he did wear shower caps over his hair at home
I have seen youtubes on the kid's birthday party ...
as I am sure you all have that showed one Under his Fedora.
So cracked me up!.....some of the things he did/does so reminds
me of myself...like wearing strange things
[well to the press and some other people] out in public. Teeeeeeeheeeeeee.

Anyway...yeah it would not surprise me if he did have on a shower cap...but it probably fell off in the room...and out of respect for MJ I think Murray or Alverez would have put his wig on.
He was Verra concerned about how he looked ...and the hair deal would be MAJOR.

This is not saying that I believe the ambulance pic is legit...
like everyone else I DO have questions and wonderments about that.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: February 03, 2011, 12:46:29 AM
It is very much possible that Michael did not have camera in his bedroom, for a privacy reasons. But still, tapes recorded inside the house other rooms, corridor to see what time Murray went to the bathroom and for how long, Murray's bedroom- anything that may show he was going to kill MJ or opposite, or where Murray was talking over the phone for how long, what was his appearance-worried, not worried. Children that supposedly were called for help and pray, chaos in the house while trying to save Michael, call to 911,how Michael was taken out of house, etc. And outside of the house, who got in and out, what time, what security was doing, what time MJ came home the day before, etc.
Lot's of answers will be covered through missing tapes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline mjboogie

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Re: Police searching for missing tapes

  • on: February 03, 2011, 07:24:36 PM
Ok I know I am putting my neck on a chopping block when I say this but ummmmmm

WHAT IF MJ HAD COMPANY OVER AND WANTED TO MAKE LOVE OR SOMETHING U KNOW? MJ BEING AS PRIVATE AS HE WAS WOULD NOT WANT SECURITY OR STAFF WATCHING HIM RIGHT! And I am very serious. :oops:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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