[hope]

This is getting scarier by the day  :shock:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/31/michael-j ... -subpoena/

[515angel]

my word.....people are speculating in comments he wants them so he can sell them! sigh

[DancingTheDream]

Im with Joe on this one.

Why would the MJJ estate be furious that he has requested these?  Surely if the man is dead, then the truth coming out would be the best in all interests???  Why would the estate be angry Joe Jackson wants the hospital reports and autopsy reports.

As MJs father.... this must mean that Joe hasnt seen the autopsy reports either...  WHAT???????? MJs own father hasnt seen the autopsy reports?????

[DancingTheDream]

Michael Jackson's father, Joe Jackson, has subpoenaed medical and other records from the UCLA Medical Center because he believes the records could reveal evidence of foul play in Jackson's death -- and the subpoena has outraged MJ estate lawyers ... TMZ has learned.

Joe's lawyer, Brian Oxman, sent 2 subpoenas to the UCLA Medical Center -- the hospital where Michael Jackson was pronounced dead on June 25. Oxman is asking for a number of documents, including medical records, autopsy reports, autopsy photos, medications and prognosis assessments.

Joe Jackson tells TMZ his entire family is behind the subpoenas -- Katherine, the brothers and sisters, along with him. He says they all believe the medical records
will show what was in Jackson's body when he passed and they believe the information will expose foul play.

We've obtained a letter sent to Oxman by estate lawyer Howard Weitzman, in which Weitzman calls the subpoenas "clearly improper." Weitzman claims the subpoenas violate Jackson's right of privacy and the physician/patient privilege. Weitzman also says the subpoenas are irrelevant to Joe Jackson's only legal claim -- a financial allowance

[hope]

The estate lawyers have fought Mr. and Mrs. J on everything........Why? Sounds a little bit of guilt to me. I have always been skeptical of Branca. :?

[DancingTheDream]

The estate lawyers have fought Mr. and Mrs. J on everything........Why? Sounds a little bit of guilt to me. I have always been skeptical of Branca. :?

Why on earth would parents and next of kin have to fight to see medical records and autopsy reports for their son??  That makes no sense to me.

[hope]

His parents, siblings and children have a right to his medical records after death  :( . I asked for my mothers when she passed, and they had to give them to me. The hospital can delay it, but if you have an attorney, they get them very fast. You have 2 years from the time of death to get them. After that they are locked in a file.

[DancingTheDream]

This makes me think that the family have not seen the medical records or the autopsy report.   :o

[ILuvUMoreMJ]

I can see why Michael's lawyers are furious actually.  Joe asked for ALL of Michael's medical records...not just the ones concerning his death.  Why would he need those?  Just because they're family doesn't mean Michael would want them to see his entire medical history...every procedure he's had done, every medication he's been prescribed, every infection, etc.  Judging by what they say in their letter, MJ's lawyers seem to think Joe wants them for a shady purpose, probably to sell info, or maybe write a book, since he was cut out of the will.  Joe is asking for the autopsy photos for goodness sake!  Why on earth would he want to see those?  I bet his lawyers can guess how much they would be worth, and maybe that's where they see this going.  The family conducted their own autopsy, so what do they think the other one is going to say?  I presume KJ would have access to both anyway.  This says to me that Joe is not in on the hoax, if there is one, and frankly that doesn't surprise me much.  Maybe he caught wind of something, a slip-up by the children perhaps, and got suspicious.  I really don't know, but I think this is huge news and we need to think about this some more.

[mmz]

can this news be the beginning of the reveiling of the hoax?
What about if the UCLA medical reports show that the dead guy is not real Michael? And family has been "fooled"?...or make believe they have been fooled...
or everybody (UCLA doctors included)make believe they have been fooled by genius Michael!!!
It is going to be a good january.
Maybe Joe is just helping Michael in the hoax!

[pepper]

Yes, this is scary but it is also HUGE!!  The FACT is that UCLA Medical Center never released a statement that stated that Michael Jackson died at their facility.  And if Joe Jackson has had his lawyers ask UCLA specifically for the medical records, etc., then perhaps UCLA will be forced to make their own statement about what actually happened at their facility on June 25.  Up till now, they have skirted the issue.  

When Brittany Murphy died recently at Cedars-Sinai, the hospital immediately released an official statement from the hospital spokesperson that she was indeed dead.  This is permissible under the HIPAA privacy rules, that the hospital can say what condition the person is in, but give no details or confirm the cause.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/sta ... id=9385992

Why did UCLA not have a spokesperson who could have uttered just these few words concerning Michael Jackson? (if indeed it was true?)

On the UCLA press site they have Jermaine Jackson's statement, stating that MJ passed at UCLA on June 25. "The family of Michael Jackson made this brief statement available on June 25 at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center:"  His family made the statement AVAILABLE??  What does this mean, really?  It seems that UCLA did everything they could do to distance themselves from this situation that just happened to occur at their facility.

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucl ... 94914.aspx

And in this video from the UCLA press site they never mention "Michael Jackson".  The guy from UCLA says, in essence, "I'm here to introduce a friend of Mr. (Jermaine) Jackson, Dr. Thome, who will make a brief statement and then we'll bring up (the aforementioned) Jermaine Jackson."  

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucl ... id=E0C5478

And this next article has always intrigued me, in the way that someone else with knowledge of PR saw this whole "death announcement" situation unfold.  "I was extremely surprised at UCLA Medical Center's lack of preparedness... After the death of superstar Michael Jackson at 2:26 pm today, the medical center had more than enough time to prepare for the press conference called on site for 5:15 pm. In fact, if a crisis plan was in place for one of the best known and largest medical centers in the country, it would have taken about one hour to implement all the steps... There was no UCLA Medical Center spokesperson or ER physician at the press conference. Instead the press conference spokesperson was Jermaine Jackson." (The person that was present at the press conference was the "chief operating officer of the UCLA Hospital System" - and he did not make any statement other than to introduce Dr. Thome, who then introduced Jermaine)

http://www.tellem.com/id86.html

[liegi]

The thought has just occurred to me that the hospital may be part of the hoax somehow and does not want to release the records and Joe is realizing this now.

[DancingTheDream]

I can see why Michael's lawyers are furious actually.  Joe asked for ALL of Michael's medical records...not just the ones concerning his death.  Why would he need those?  Just because they're family doesn't mean Michael would want them to see his entire medical history...every procedure he's had done, every medication he's been prescribed, every infection, etc.  Judging by what they say in their letter, MJ's lawyers seem to think Joe wants them for a shady purpose, probably to sell info, or maybe write a book, since he was cut out of the will.  Joe is asking for the autopsy photos for goodness sake!  Why on earth would he want to see those?  I bet his lawyers can guess how much they would be worth, and maybe that's where they see this going.  The family conducted their own autopsy, so what do they think the other one is going to say?  I presume KJ would have access to both anyway.  This says to me that Joe is not in on the hoax, if there is one, and frankly that doesn't surprise me much.  Maybe he caught wind of something, a slip-up by the children perhaps, and got suspicious.  I really don't know, but I think this is huge news and we need to think about this some more.

If MY son had died in suspicious circumstances i would want to see EVERYTHING!

Including the autopsy report and photos and all medical records.

I would want the truth and ALL the truth about what happened to my son.

[mjj_fan]

in my opinion there are 2 possibilities
  1. jow wanted to take advantage of those pictures and medical records by selling them to media
   2, what surprised me was why dr murray and his lawyer asked to release the full autopsy report when dr murray was suspected for homicide , chances are there if there was someone else body that day  , why would he ask for full autopsy report to prove his innocence ?

[ILuvUMoreMJ]

I can see why Michael's lawyers are furious actually.  Joe asked for ALL of Michael's medical records...not just the ones concerning his death.  Why would he need those?  Just because they're family doesn't mean Michael would want them to see his entire medical history...every procedure he's had done, every medication he's been prescribed, every infection, etc.  Judging by what they say in their letter, MJ's lawyers seem to think Joe wants them for a shady purpose, probably to sell info, or maybe write a book, since he was cut out of the will.  Joe is asking for the autopsy photos for goodness sake!  Why on earth would he want to see those?  I bet his lawyers can guess how much they would be worth, and maybe that's where they see this going.  The family conducted their own autopsy, so what do they think the other one is going to say?  I presume KJ would have access to both anyway.  This says to me that Joe is not in on the hoax, if there is one, and frankly that doesn't surprise me much.  Maybe he caught wind of something, a slip-up by the children perhaps, and got suspicious.  I really don't know, but I think this is huge news and we need to think about this some more.

If MY son had died in suspicious circumstances i would want to see EVERYTHING!

Including the autopsy report and photos and all medical records.

I would want the truth and ALL the truth about what happened to my son.

Well sure, I can understand that...but isn't Michael supposed to be alive?  And if he isn't, why isn't Katherine asking for the files?  It doesn't make sense to me that Joe would be the one to subpoena UCLA, especially since he was left out of the will and is fighting for an allowance.  I'd say the lawyers have good reason to suspect Joe isn't just doing this for investigative purposes.  Either way, I still think it strongly suggests Joe doesn't know anything about a hoax.

[AllForMichael]

Do you think that story could be a fake? Maybe the Jacksons have paid TMZ to write this story to make it look like Michael is in fact dead. Maybe they're trying to get everyone to stop probing into Michael's supposed death. If there wasn't a statement from the hospital, doctors or coroner in regard to his death then there shouldn't be any papers either. And the fact that no one wanted to put their name on the death certificate. Doesn't add up IMO. Could it be they're trying to stop the investigations? Just a thought. Anything's possible at this point. IDK

[hesouttamylife]

Im with Joe on this one.

Why would the MJJ estate be furious that he has requested these?  Surely if the man is dead, then the truth coming out would be the best in all interests???  Why would the estate be angry Joe Jackson wants the hospital reports and autopsy reports.

As MJs father.... this must mean that Joe hasnt seen the autopsy reports either...  WHAT???????? MJs own father hasnt seen the autopsy reports?????

IMO, if he was so interested in Michael's "medical condition(s)" he should've talked to Michael himself.  That is a blatant violation of Michael's privacy and in violation of HIPPA laws.  Michael was an adult.  His parents should not be privy to his personal medical history prior to the events of 6/25/09.  Some things should remain confidential.  If he is indeed deceased,having his medical records won't bring him back, so what's the real motive?

[DancingTheDream]

Im with Joe on this one.

Why would the MJJ estate be furious that he has requested these?  Surely if the man is dead, then the truth coming out would be the best in all interests???  Why would the estate be angry Joe Jackson wants the hospital reports and autopsy reports.

As MJs father.... this must mean that Joe hasnt seen the autopsy reports either...  WHAT???????? MJs own father hasnt seen the autopsy reports?????

IMO, if he was so interested in Michael's "medical condition(s)" he should've talked to Michael himself.  That is a blatant violation of Michael's privacy and in violation of HIPPA laws.  Michael was an adult.  His parents should not be privy to his personal medical history prior to the events of 6/25/09.  Some things should remain confidential.  If he is indeed deceased,having his medical records won't bring him back, so what's the real motive?

Wont bring him back..  but would give understanding and therefore closure

[hesouttamylife]

Don't know that it would.  He'll never get them.  It is a blatant violation of his rights.

[ILuvUMoreMJ]

IMO, if he was so interested in Michael's "medical condition(s)" he should've talked to Michael himself.  That is a blatant violation of Michael's privacy and in violation of HIPPA laws.  Michael was an adult.  His parents should not be privy to his personal medical history prior to the events of 6/25/09.  Some things should remain confidential.  If he is indeed deceased,having his medical records won't bring him back, so what's the real motive?

Completely agree.  Michael was a grown man, not a child...his medical history is none of Joe's business.  MIchael was a very private person, I'm sure he'd be mortified if Joe and his lawyer got their hands on those.  Now I can see that Joe might subpoena the coroner's office, because they're the ones who have the autopsy findings, not UCLA.  But wouldn't those be available to the family without a subpoena anyway?  I would think at the very least Katherine would be allowed to see the information, unless maybe it's under lock and key until the investigation is over.  Something about this is very fishy to me.

[QuirkyDiana]

'Joe Jackson, or members of the Jackson family, as Michael Jackson’s next-of-kin, may have the right to access records in relation to an impending wrongful death suit.'

'All states have laws about what is called the physician-patient privilege. This privilege includes a patient’s right to medical privacy and the right to prevent a physician from revealing the contents of medical files without the patient’s permission. This privilege is frequently an issue in wrongful death lawsuits, where wrongful death lawyers need access to the medical information to prepare for a case. Because the plaintiff (the person suing) in the wrongful death lawsuit must prove that the defendant(s) caused the wrongful death, medical evidence is crucial.'

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/12 ... portunist/

If Joe is looking to sue AEG, as Murray's employer, then i presume Joe will receive compensation should he win because he is the father of the deceased. It may not be just about money though. So much time has passed since MJ's 'death'. There are still many facts that have yet to even surface. The LAPD is sitting on all of this, but can they be trusted? The full autopsy report has still not been published. What was the estimated time of death? Was he still revivable when paramendics got there..........and Murray is back at work. The coroner won't release the report independently until they get the go-ahead from LAPD. Perhaps the family are just tired of being kept out of the loop. I do fear though that the MJ Estate (and its people) is becoming a formidable entity to be reckoned with, even by MJ's own family! Are they there to protect MJ's dignity and legacy as a human being, or do they see the estate as a huge opportunity to make money from his death any which way they can regardless of whether MJ would approve. What do they really represent? The issue with the Jackson-Murray-AEG contract is also interesting. AEG denies the existence of a valid signed contract, but what was in the contract that MJ and AEG couldn't agree on?

[tinker_bell]

What confuses me is the whole Family vs. Estate confrontation, starting from the moment the Will has been pronounced. I mean shouldn't they be on the same side of the fence (i.e. MJ's)? And so far it looks more like there's some sort of cold war between them, so i'm kinda wondering if it's a real confrontation (in which case we need to nderstand who's TRULY representing MJ's intrests if any!) or a staged show with TMZ playing the role of a public crier (seriously, how do they get those documents?!)

As for this particular article:

- shouldn't it be UCLA or even LAPD officials to stand up to the request for these documents due to physician/patient privilege and the ongoing investigation. Such opposition would be 100 times more authoritative and logical in the eyes of the world, rather than this done by the estate laywers and compromising the Jackson family with a doubt of their good intentions.

-in the letter it is mentioned that including MJ's SSN in the subpoena is a clear violation of his privacy, as such highly confidential information may not be part of any public record, BUT... don't we already know his SSN from SSDI? Now i'm not sure if SSN should remain confidential after the person passes away or only while alive? After all we could also see MJ's drivers licence which is considered a private record and cannot be disclosed to the public while the person is alive in order to prevent any fraudulent actions.

Social Security Death Index

Name: Michael Joseph Jackson
Date of Birth: Friday August 29, 1958
Date of Death: Thursday June 25, 2009
Est. Age at death: 50 years, 9 months, 27 days

Last known residence:
State: California
Confirmation: Proven

Social Security details:
State of Issue: Indiana
Social Security Number: 303-62-5728
http://www.genealogyblog.com/?p=5363

So the question is, why to put such a stress on keeping it a secret while it's all over the internet... smells of a drama... or did they fill another (REAL) number in the subpoena?  :?

[Star Gazer]

-in the letter it is mentioned that including MJ's SSN in the subpoena is a clear violation of his privacy, as such highly confidential information may not be part of any public record, BUT... don't we already know his SSN from SSDI? Now i'm not sure if SSN should remain confidential after the person passes away or only while alive? After all we could also see MJ's drivers licence which is considered a private record and cannot be disclosed to the public while the person is alive in order to prevent any fraudulent actions.

Social Security Death Index

Social Security Number: 303-62-5728
http://www.genealogyblog.com/?p=5363

So the question is, why to put such a stress on keeping it a secret while it's all over the internet... smells of a drama... or did they fill another (REAL) number in the subpoena?  :?

The SSN from celebrities that have died have been made public (ie Elvis, Marilyn) so I don't see why Michael's should be treated any differently (if he had really died). Also, did they release his current drivers licence/passport or just expired ones?

[tinker_bell]

The SSN from celebrities that have died have been made public (ie Elvis, Marilyn) so I don't see why Michael's should be treated any differently (if he had really died). Also, did they release his current drivers licence/passport or just expired ones?

And that's exactly my point, why to make a problem out of it (as stems from the letter by Weitzman) unless MJ is ALIVE? It's not logical.

[karmaknowstruth]

Has anyone else noticed how nutty, strange, not with it Joe Jackson behaves during interviews?  Ok, of course you have.  Sure Joe is pissed he got left out of the will.  Probably his lawyer is prompting him to do whatever it takes to extract some cash back from MJ. Hey, Joe, let's try this, let's try that......   Kathrine and her family are obviously estranged from Joe in some way. But they have to hide the family dirt at all cost.
Don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind that Joe may have been involved in the murder of .....  and he's hoping to be allowed to see what medical evidence there is to know where his ass stands.  Next, I'm going to wash my mouth out with soap for saying that.
Now, the deception surrounding "the death of MJ".  All this suspicious behavior and bad acting.  The elaborate staging.  2 and 2 not adding up.......
Is there anyone on this board who can actually go snoop around to verify that conference room at UCLA in fact exists? Did you notice there were sound effects but the news crews and cameras were out of video range? The fact that no official UCLA people were there and the statement made that 'NO QUESTIONS' were permitted ?  That would cover up the fact it may have been staged.  Leave no stone unturned.
Also it is true that while the family tries to pull of a hoax, our investigation may be hampering their progress.  I keep wondering if we may need to figure out a way to set up an underground investigation?

What do you think ?