A clue from bodyguards book?

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Offline michaelslady

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A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: July 14, 2014, 11:28:43 AM
Someone shared this pic on facebook. I laughed so hard. Is this a MAJOR clue in this hoax? https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10514712_762624430427516_397639658030606321_n.jpg
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 11:30:38 AM by michaelslady »

Offline sweetsunsetwithMJ

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: July 15, 2014, 10:50:26 AM
Someone shared this pic on facebook. I laughed so hard. Is this a MAJOR clue in this hoax? https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10514712_762624430427516_397639658030606321_n.jpg

I don't find it a major clue due to I don't see June 25th in anywhere and I remember before he "died" on June 25 it was said that he died more than one time.
I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE!!

Offline NJackSwing91

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 24, 2014, 01:17:02 PM
I found that part interesting also.

In addition, I found a lot of interesting things in this book. 

1. I didn't know that Michael Amir Williams was a film student at USC.  The bodyguard mentions that Michael Amir first met MJ in LA after MJ returned from Japan (early 2007?).  And then Michael Amir had visited MJ in Virginia 4 or 5 times (summer 2007) working on film projects.  And this was all before Michael Amir officially became his personal assistant.  It makes me wonder how long Michael Amir had known MJ prior to him returning to the States. 

I also wonder what kind of film projects they had worked on.  According to the book, while in Virginia, Michael bought a whole bunch of film equipment to work on projects with Michael Amir.  When he left Virginia, the bodyguards put everything in a storage unit.  But then had everything sent to LA in early 2009 after MJ had inquired about it and requested the equipment to be shipped to him.  It was never stated why MJ would need his film equipment.  Could it be that he was working on more film projects with MIchael Amir? Could this have been the Conrad Murray videos???

Also, the bodyguards didn't mention anything about Michael Amir being at the Ebony photoshoots.  They said it was just them and MJ.  I could have sworn I saw a video teaser for the Last Photoshoot Documentary and Michael Amir was definitely there.

2.  They said that MJ read the Wall Street Journal the most.  So, it surprises me that his whole financial state was the way it was in the end.  Of all newspapers, he's been reading the one that is founded on business and financial news.  You'd think he'd come away with knowledge on how to handle finances and business deals?  Perhaps MJ had a financial plan this whole time?

3. The bodyguards complained through most of the book that they had to go through months without pay.  They said they felt it was because Raymone Bain was mismanaging MJ's funds and trying to weed the bodyguards out of MJ's life so she can have her own security in place.  MJ would get angry with Raymone and demand that she pay them. But, MJ had kept suitcases full of thousands of dollars with him at home and the bodyguards had wondered why MJ couldn't just pay them in cash.   

But, during the Conrad Murray trial, we learned that MJ would offer cash to Conrad after he learned that AEG wasn't paying him.  Why this sudden change? Why was it important to offer Conrad cash rather than calling AEG and demanding that they pay him?  Why did the bodyguards have to wait months before they were paid?  Something about this doesn't add up.  I'm not sure how this fits into the hoax, but it's definitely something to consider. 

Offline Echo

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 24, 2014, 02:37:09 PM
3. The bodyguards complained through most of the book that they had to go through months without pay.  They said they felt it was because Raymone Bain was mismanaging MJ's funds and trying to weed the bodyguards out of MJ's life so she can have her own security in place.  MJ would get angry with Raymone and demand that she pay them. But, MJ had kept suitcases full of thousands of dollars with him at home and the bodyguards had wondered why MJ couldn't just pay them in cash.   

But, during the Conrad Murray trial, we learned that MJ would offer cash to Conrad after he learned that AEG wasn't paying him.  Why this sudden change? Why was it important to offer Conrad cash rather than calling AEG and demanding that they pay him?  Why did the bodyguards have to wait months before they were paid?  Something about this doesn't add up.  I'm not sure how this fits into the hoax, but it's definitely something to consider.

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,24598.msg452037/topicseen.html#new


I read this book as well. Everyone has their perception as to what was going on. I have reservations about the body guards account of anything because they are not loyal to Michael. Closed mouths reveal the depth of loyalty. They took advantage of not signing a confidentiality agreement and wrote perhaps an unauthorized book. Not knowing that the book is authorized causes me to question their character.

In regards to the question of compensation, I am thinking that Michael could not pay the body guards in cash. That would be paying "under the table", punishable by law. Any cash that exchanged between Dr. Murray could perhaps be classified as a reimbursement for medical supplies and medical consumables. An explainable line item. Just a thought...

« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:40:07 PM by Echo »
"It’s a great loss for us and I just hope and pray that the Creator, whatever you believe in, still holds us in favor to send us another angel like that. Because if not, we may have lost more than just a man. It must be something very special to send a man like that down. He influenced so many different people, so many different industries, politics, science, music, art ... And then to be taken away? Maybe we didn't take good care of him". - W. Snipes

Offline NJackSwing91

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 24, 2014, 04:55:33 PM
I had the same kind of reservations.  It seemed like they were portraying MJ as a complete loner too oblivious and naive to everything going on in his life.  But, I didn't feel like they were completely trashing him in their book, either.  There were moments they described that really showed how caring and kind he was to everyone.

I agree that they took advantage of not signing confidentiality agreements, but I felt that they chose not to sign it because a) it was supposedly never given to them to sign when they first started working for MJ and b) they didn't like the new Jackson camp that came in and took over after them.  I don't feel they did so with the intent to write a book someday. 

Also, I agree that paying the bodyguards in cash would have been considered "under the table" and illegal but would it have really mattered?  One of the bodyguards mentioned a time they had to take a commercial flight and he was stopped at airport security when they discovered a carry-on luggage with hundreds of thousands of cash inside.  The airport security told him he had to claim this, but eventually let him through once one of MJ's people told them who he was travelling with.  I would assume that was totally illegal. 




Offline Echo

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 24, 2014, 09:26:29 PM
I had the same kind of reservations.  It seemed like they were portraying MJ as a complete loner too oblivious and naive to everything going on in his life.  But, I didn't feel like they were completely trashing him in their book, either.  There were moments they described that really showed how caring and kind he was to everyone.

I agree that they took advantage of not signing confidentiality agreements, but I felt that they chose not to sign it because a) it was supposedly never given to them to sign when they first started working for MJ and b) they didn't like the new Jackson camp that came in and took over after them.  I don't feel they did so with the intent to write a book someday. 

Also, I agree that paying the bodyguards in cash would have been considered "under the table" and illegal but would it have really mattered?  One of the bodyguards mentioned a time they had to take a commercial flight and he was stopped at airport security when they discovered a carry-on luggage with hundreds of thousands of cash inside.  The airport security told him he had to claim this, but eventually let him through once one of MJ's people told them who he was travelling with.  I would assume that was totally illegal.

I got the impression from the writers that Michael was oblivious to the day to day operations of his enterprise. Sounds like he needed a controller and income auditor that would enforce restrictions and hold his team accountable. I think that paying under the table would have mattered, any reason to arrest MJ.

Getting back to Michael Amir Muhammad and his film projects. Here is an interesting fact...Michael Amir Muhammad directed an original documentary chronicling the life of The Honorable Louis Farrakhan in music. The movie is titled, "Let's Change the World:My Life's Journey Through Music". The film showcases Minister Farrakhan as a master classical violinist. Minister Farrakhan wanted to give something in the gift of music that would help show the universality of his message people often hear in word, but not in his music. An exclusive screening was on May 11, 2013, which just so happened to be Minister Farrakhan's birthday. You can catch the trailer on You Tube. Your thoughts?



 
"It’s a great loss for us and I just hope and pray that the Creator, whatever you believe in, still holds us in favor to send us another angel like that. Because if not, we may have lost more than just a man. It must be something very special to send a man like that down. He influenced so many different people, so many different industries, politics, science, music, art ... And then to be taken away? Maybe we didn't take good care of him". - W. Snipes

Offline Echo

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 24, 2014, 09:53:38 PM
And the most important fact...the movie production company is Phoenix Palace Production.

The phoenix in classical mythology is a unique bird that lived for five or six centuries in the Arabian dessert, after this time burning itself on a funeral pyre and rising from ashes with renewed youth to live through another cycle.
"It’s a great loss for us and I just hope and pray that the Creator, whatever you believe in, still holds us in favor to send us another angel like that. Because if not, we may have lost more than just a man. It must be something very special to send a man like that down. He influenced so many different people, so many different industries, politics, science, music, art ... And then to be taken away? Maybe we didn't take good care of him". - W. Snipes

Offline NJackSwing91

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 25, 2014, 04:01:42 PM
I watched the trailer...very interesting.  I'd actually like to see it.  I think USC is a great film program and judging from the trailer I think it might be pretty compelling to watch.  I read that Farrakhan used to be a singer and had several Top 100 Billboard hits (Wikipedia- so probably not the best source).  But, he gave it up to focus more on his role with the NOI. 

Other interesting things about Farrakhan:
1. His son-in-law, Leonard Muhammed, was Michael's advisor in late 2003.  After Santa Barbara raided Neverland in November 2003,  the Nation of Islam suddenly took over MJ's security, supposedly giving legal advice, overseeing accounting, making the 60 minuntes interview deal for MJ, and even controlling the entire Jackson camp.  They apparently scared the shit out of everyone before MJ decided not to use them anymore.  I hear so many negative crap about the NOI, but I think at this time MJ was trying to dis-associate himself from Marc Schaffel and Deiter Weiser and I think the NOI effectively pushed them away for the time being.  I kind of suspect they were still advising MJ, but from a distance until his 'death.'

2.  Have you seen Farrakhan's speech about Michael jackson in 2009?  Very powerful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzN3kR9Bo2w&list=PLF78205857DDF8546

I definiately feel Michael Amir and the NOI have a role in the Hoax. If closed mouths indeed reveal the depths of loyalty, then they have proven to be very loyal because I haven't heard anything from them after MJ's 'death.'

Offline gwynned

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 26, 2014, 07:55:12 AM
And the most important fact...the movie production company is Phoenix Palace Production.

The phoenix in classical mythology is a unique bird that lived for five or six centuries in the Arabian dessert, after this time burning itself on a funeral pyre and rising from ashes with renewed youth to live through another cycle.

Phoenix does seem to be a theme.  It was a theme at the London Olympics, at Conchita Wurst (translate the meaning of THAT name!)'s win at Eurovision, and recently Phoenix, Arizona, usually hot and dry this time of year, received more rain in one day than they get an entire year. 

Offline Echo

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 26, 2014, 09:48:11 PM
I watched the trailer...very interesting.  I'd actually like to see it.  I think USC is a great film program and judging from the trailer I think it might be pretty compelling to watch.  I read that Farrakhan used to be a singer and had several Top 100 Billboard hits (Wikipedia- so probably not the best source).  But, he gave it up to focus more on his role with the NOI. 

Other interesting things about Farrakhan:
1. His son-in-law, Leonard Muhammed, was Michael's advisor in late 2003.  After Santa Barbara raided Neverland in November 2003,  the Nation of Islam suddenly took over MJ's security, supposedly giving legal advice, overseeing accounting, making the 60 minuntes interview deal for MJ, and even controlling the entire Jackson camp.  They apparently scared the shit out of everyone before MJ decided not to use them anymore.  I hear so many negative crap about the NOI, but I think at this time MJ was trying to dis-associate himself from Marc Schaffel and Deiter Weiser and I think the NOI effectively pushed them away for the time being.  I kind of suspect they were still advising MJ, but from a distance until his 'death.'

2.  Have you seen Farrakhan's speech about Michael jackson in 2009?  Very powerful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzN3kR9Bo2w&list=PLF78205857DDF8546

I definiately feel Michael Amir and the NOI have a role in the Hoax. If closed mouths indeed reveal the depths of loyalty, then they have proven to be very loyal because I haven't heard anything from them after MJ's 'death.'

Wow, you are no stranger to research.

I cannot cognitively say that Michael Amir Williams and NOI are a part of a death hoax. However, at best my curiosity is peaked.

Michael Jackson and Minister Farrakhan are of uncanny exceptional quality. Both elevated souls. Both profoundly charismatic. Both talented  in the arts. Both shepherds of a Higher Being with an external appeal to multitudes. I am not the least taken aback by the likelihood of these two gravitating to one another for a cause, particularly if one is in despondency.

1. The Movie has moved to my short things to do list. I agree, I think that it will be compelling and would like to see it. As to it's availability, have not really studied. Please keep me posted on what you find.

2. Minister Farrakhan was a calypso singer. Go figure. I wonder if he sings throwback tune or two in the movie...

3. Did not now about the Leonard Muhammad's role as an adviser to that degree. And still laughing at your claim that NOI "scared the shit out of everyone".

4. I did see Minister Farrakhan's sermon, The Crucifixion of Micheal Jackson...several times. Indescribable.

5. In regards to closed mouths, there is a story floating around on the internet that states that Michael Amir Williams sued AEG for potential lost wages. No idea of it's validity.

6. In regards to your being suspect that NOI was advising Michael Jackson from a distance, were you aware that as of June 25, 2009 that  Faheem Muhammad was Michael Jackson's chief of security? Faheem testified at the trial of Conrad Murray.

In closing and in addition, I will pepper our exchange with Grace Rwaramba (the nanny). Do you recall her being mentioned by name in the book? I am going to check.   



"It’s a great loss for us and I just hope and pray that the Creator, whatever you believe in, still holds us in favor to send us another angel like that. Because if not, we may have lost more than just a man. It must be something very special to send a man like that down. He influenced so many different people, so many different industries, politics, science, music, art ... And then to be taken away? Maybe we didn't take good care of him". - W. Snipes

Offline whatyourheartsays

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 30, 2014, 06:16:34 PM
I read this clue too. i found several other ones like this in the book.

I Wonder about few things but i find no answers, it's just feelings about the book :

- the bodyguards sometime gave a view on MJ that is not very positive, like he is a lonely guy, pretty random and strange, have them sad, or feel pity for him.
This book is written by people who saw MJ with their own eyes, but that doesn't mean what they describe is what MJ is. Some people saw and knew MJ for years and said things about him that were not the truth. Because they had an opinion about him.
Everybody has an opinion about people they meet. And this 2 bodyguards had this opinion about MJ. That he was frail, naive, lonely, out from his own business.

NOW, did they really see that, or were they given to see it, or did they really write the truth in their book ? I noticed MJ like to play the victim sometime. Being frail is part of his way to be, when we know he is a strong man inside. I think he is well aware of everything and in the book he showed it by testing the bodyguards several times. And then he appears as a man that is not even able to get his employee paid ?

How does this 2 men can be sure that MJ himself was not trying to get rid of them by not paying them, or that it was not Mj's word when they left airport without Bill, or not call him back whe he tried to know where MJ was. Maybe MJ himself gave this orders but he didn't want to appear unfriendly, because he liked them as people.

When MJ went back to his "king of pop" business, it seems like not much was done to have this 2 guys back in the team. But if MJ managed to get Murray, why not get this guys ? I think maybe he made decision that he wanted another team...
Or maybe he was getting started with the hoax and he didn't want them in, for any reason.

In the end we don't know, and i wonder if this guys ever knew, in the end.
This book is only their view. I doubt everything they saw was what really happened, though MJ sure trusted them as bodyguards.

Why did they choose to have this story about "fake info on MJ's death", when they got the book out after his death.
They CHOOSED to put this very special story in the book.

Question is : WHY ?

I think they are believers. and i found it obvious in the book about such clues they gave. They do want to think MJ is alive.
Do not push the carebear in the nettles


Offline Echo

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: August 31, 2014, 09:10:04 AM
And the most important fact...the movie production company is Phoenix Palace Production.

The phoenix in classical mythology is a unique bird that lived for five or six centuries in the Arabian dessert, after this time burning itself on a funeral pyre and rising from ashes with renewed youth to live through another cycle.

Phoenix does seem to be a theme.  It was a theme at the London Olympics, at Conchita Wurst (translate the meaning of THAT name!)'s win at Eurovision, and recently Phoenix, Arizona, usually hot and dry this time of year, received more rain in one day than they get an entire year.

Point well taken, however there is no leeway in Islam for past life regression. In the teaching of Islam the soul cannot be detached and moved to anther body.

This is a movie about a minister of Islam. So, why display such a blatant contradiction?

Granted that Phoenix Palace Productions may be a crazy coincidence with absolutely no warrant for concern.  However, we are looking at art where interpretation always is key. Is Phoenix Palace Productions an exception because it perhaps is symbolic?

"It’s a great loss for us and I just hope and pray that the Creator, whatever you believe in, still holds us in favor to send us another angel like that. Because if not, we may have lost more than just a man. It must be something very special to send a man like that down. He influenced so many different people, so many different industries, politics, science, music, art ... And then to be taken away? Maybe we didn't take good care of him". - W. Snipes

Offline Echo

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: October 20, 2014, 03:47:39 AM
I had the same kind of reservations.  It seemed like they were portraying MJ as a complete loner too oblivious and naive to everything going on in his life.  But, I didn't feel like they were completely trashing him in their book, either.  There were moments they described that really showed how caring and kind he was to everyone.

I agree that they took advantage of not signing confidentiality agreements, but I felt that they chose not to sign it because a) it was supposedly never given to them to sign when they first started working for MJ and b) they didn't like the new Jackson camp that came in and took over after them.  I don't feel they did so with the intent to write a book someday. 

Also, I agree that paying the bodyguards in cash would have been considered "under the table" and illegal but would it have really mattered?  One of the bodyguards mentioned a time they had to take a commercial flight and he was stopped at airport security when they discovered a carry-on luggage with hundreds of thousands of cash inside.  The airport security told him he had to claim this, but eventually let him through once one of MJ's people told them who he was travelling with.  I would assume that was totally illegal.

I got the impression from the writers that Michael was oblivious to the day to day operations of his enterprise. Sounds like he needed a controller and income auditor that would enforce restrictions and hold his team accountable. I think that paying under the table would have mattered, any reason to arrest MJ.

Getting back to Michael Amir Muhammad and his film projects. Here is an interesting fact...Michael Amir Muhammad directed an original documentary chronicling the life of The Honorable Louis Farrakhan in music. The movie is titled, "Let's Change the World:My Life's Journey Through Music". The film showcases Minister Farrakhan as a master classical violinist. Minister Farrakhan wanted to give something in the gift of music that would help show the universality of his message people often hear in word, but not in his music. An exclusive screening was on May 11, 2013, which just so happened to be Minister Farrakhan's birthday. You can catch the trailer on You Tube. Your thoughts?

A few weeks ago I tracked down a source to view the movie http://youtu.be/

Have not seen it yet.

"It’s a great loss for us and I just hope and pray that the Creator, whatever you believe in, still holds us in favor to send us another angel like that. Because if not, we may have lost more than just a man. It must be something very special to send a man like that down. He influenced so many different people, so many different industries, politics, science, music, art ... And then to be taken away? Maybe we didn't take good care of him". - W. Snipes

Offline michaelslady

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: October 21, 2014, 02:20:51 AM
honestly I'm really not sure whether I believe what these bodyguards are saying. Its like one minute MJ is a shrewed businessman who knows his stuff, then the next minute he's this poor innocent naïve man-child who is incapable of paying his own bills. I don't buy it at all.

Notice anybody that is somebody like his celebrity friends; all describe him as being sharp as a tack and knows his stuff. People that are out to make a buck or get their 15 minutes of fame describe him as being almost stupid and gullible. Sorry that's one thing that he was not.

Offline curls

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Re: A clue from bodyguards book?

  • on: October 21, 2014, 02:37:37 AM
^^^ It's almost as if he put on the 'stupid and gullible' act around those he knew, or suspected, he couldn't trust.   Let them walk right into his trap!