9/11 - The Ghost Plane "Theory"

[Tink]

Then explain to ME, how my editors at Topps (yes, the trading card company), SAW TWO PLANES HIT THE FRIGGIN' Twins! THEY SAW and HEARD them hit, and it haunts them to this very day. They had a front row seat from their office building, and it's BURNED into their very souls to this day!

Yes - I did Bazooka Joe, the little Bubble Gum cartoons, wrapped around the gum. That is how Michael initially got wind of my art, and how HE became my number one fan - because I'd dropped off art at Larry Parker's in Beverly Hills, of the Bazooka Joe characters eating there.

You tell ME how my Editors and the other employees saw and heard the planes hit! It's quite difficult to fool artists and writers, especially when they have front seats to world class disaster! You sure can't tell me they didn't see it, because I heard about it - and still hear about it. No projections, or any bs - it was real. If you wish to fool yourself, I can't do anything about it.

No; I've never thought Iraq was behind it. That's another story - I'd also warned that if we invaded Iraq without WMDs, that it would "Become our Vietnam," I was completely against it.

Syria feels that no one will stop them, that's crimes against humanity. They need humanitarian aid, it's a complete Catch-22.
Iran feels that they can also do whatever they want, and the country has gone backwards ever since the Shah of Iran took control while I was in High School.

These are all separate issues; do not roll them all into one ball of wax.

America cannot be the "Boy Scout," and solve the world's woes. That's why we have the UN, which is supposed to help render Humanitarian Aid.

Unfortunately, all systems of help are flawed.

[LoveShyMichael]

9-11 was the "gateway" to the freedoms of all American's. Whether or not people want to admit it or not.

[LoveShyMichael]

Alex Jones has put out an offer of $10,000 to anyone that can prove that 9-11 WAS NOT AN INSIDE JOB!!

Not one person has ever took him up on his offer. HHHHHmmmmmmm.....Wonder Why???

[Tink]

Alex Jones has put out an offer of $10,000 to anyone that can prove that 9-11 WAS NOT AN INSIDE JOB!!

Not one person has ever took him up on his offer. HHHHHmmmmmmm.....Wonder Why???

Because "PROOF" is subjective. Prove to me, that you're not a figment of my imagination, and not part of some online internet game! Sure; you can post photos, but that doesn't mean anything, for computer programs can grab many photos, correct?

Prove to me, that God exists! I KNOW God and his angels are real, yet what proof is there? There's ONE video tape in existence now, of a miracle.

No one takes Alex Jones seriously, because he has stacked his deck in his favor - that's the real truth. He's learned how to manipulate people on the highest level, and is reaping what he's sown, lol. Let people believe whatever they want - after all, God gave people free choice, did He not?

Most MENSA level people see him as an idiot, and not worth their time, when the world needs to be saved! $10,000 isn't worth the time.

As for Rand and his "psychic" test for money also? How can a psychic tell what's in the envelop WHEN IT IS EMPTY!?  :LolLolLolLol:
Hope he's enjoyed his prank. No real psychic will come forth, for they don't wish to be caught, and used.

[Sarahli]

9-11 was the "gateway" to the freedoms of all American's. Whether or not people want to admit it or not.

Yes indeed, all freedoms are being stolen as we speak and not just in the USA but everywhere. 9/11 opened the "gates of Hell" I want to say because ever since we are hearing of wars and rumors of wars. The never-ending "war on terror". And now countries are being invaded under the guise of humanitarianism.

We do not necessarily need this Alex Jones person to know that something is not right in what happened that day. A lot of people have compiled evidence proving that the official story is -- bogus, to say the least. One doesn't need to be an engineer to understand that according to certain laws of physics these towers could not have fallen at free speed as they did without there being professionnal material used for controlled demolition. Let's not even talk about the collapse of building 7 which has not even been hit by a plane......................

Anyone who takes a minimum of time to investigate this, should come up with the conclusion that something isn't right with the official story.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ANhpDyLZf4[/youtube]

[Sarahli]

Oh and talking about God, there is always 2 sides in a story like this. We will all agree to say that God could have prevented this to happen? Yes. So why did God let the devil operate this? There is a lesson to learn as well in my opinion and we must look at what these towers represent. They represent money and power and it could well be a warning from God too because the people love money and power too much. It's time for a change.

[LoveShyMichael]

C'mon Tink, really to go into "proof" definition wasn't I feel needed.

People have to use common sense, & when a "conspiracy" so called sticks & doesn't go away, it's because there is truth to the lies we've been told.

Thousands of innocent people we're MIURDERED on 9-11, who's going to be held responsibile for those deaths?
Again, you have to understand what took place 'BEFORE 9-11. not AFTER 9-11.

I won't go into on this forum. But the truth is there. I won't be blind-sided by the lies that have been told, if you really feel Tink that 9-11 was really an outside terriorists besides our US government, then you'll keep believing the lies. Which is what you choose to do.

[LoveShyMichael]

Sarahli .....

Yes, building don't free fall at 6.5 seconds for building 7-which your right was NEVER hit by a plane. And the other towers in less than 9 seconds, to fall completely in it's own footprint. Never in the HISTORY OF TH WORLD,  has steel ever been pulverized to dust. So you mean to tell me just those 3 buildings "happen" to fall at free fall speed, & fall in it's own footprint, & the big bonus.........all comes down to dust. And if people paid attention to when the buildings actually fall, notice how the explosions are happening & being pushed outward before the layers of the floors are actually collasping.

CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!!!!

[LoveShyMichael]

Sarahli .........

Alex Jones also has DVD'S out called Loose Change also.

[empyreal]

Just because people saw two planes hit the towers doesn't mean that's what caused THREE buildings to fall into themselves. What about the witnesses that were actually in the building who told stories of explosives? I'm definitely not saying there weren't planes involved because there are plenty of witnesses to testify. To me, proof isn't even proof. It's basically just an opinion because so many people don't accept one person's idea of proof as solid evidence. But, it baffles me how people could believe the government's official story of what happened. Especially when they said they found the passports of the hijackers in tact a block or two away, since it had to have came from inside the plane, which exploded. They didn't even find most bodies intact.. they were identifying people by shards of bone.

If you were accused of something this extreme, and you had absolutely nothing to do with it, wouldn't you deny it with all your might? Our government dodges questions that contradict their "official" take on what happened. Why? If you're not guilty you have no reason to do this.

I'm not exactly sure of what happened. I don't think anyone does (expect for the ones who carried it out). I don't like throwing accusations around when I can't prove it 100%. But I know our government knows a little (or a lot) more than they're saying.

[gwynned]

Prove to me, that God exists! I KNOW God and his angels are real, yet what proof is there? There's ONE video tape in existence now, of a miracle.

Hmmm....do you have a copy of that tape, Tink?

[Tink]

C'mon Tink, really to go into "proof" definition wasn't I feel needed.

People have to use common sense, & when a "conspiracy" so called sticks & doesn't go away, it's because there is truth to the lies we've been told.

Thousands of innocent people we're MIURDERED on 9-11, who's going to be held responsibile for those deaths?
Again, you have to understand what took place 'BEFORE 9-11. not AFTER 9-11.

I won't go into on this forum. But the truth is there. I won't be blind-sided by the lies that have been told, if you really feel Tink that 9-11 was really an outside terriorists besides our US government, then you'll keep believing the lies. Which is what you choose to do.

I gave you the answer: JONES uses what is called a STRAWMAN argument.

Let's get to the heart of the issue now, shall we? 

Here's the proof and the truth:

Nobody ever said that the steel melted; what they said, is that the buildings hit STRUCTURAL FAILURE!! HUGE, HUGE difference.

See, most high rises have a concrete inner core or column, or concrete-encased outer columns; oftentimes, both. WTC HAD NEITHER!
Instead, the WTC's steel columns and trusses were protected by a layer of foam fireproofing, which was BLOWN OFF during the plane impacts. The way she was constructed quickly, became her Achilles' heel.

North Tower: 15% of the perimeter columns and 13% of the core columns were SEVERED, with many more damaged.

South Tower: 14% of the perimeter columns and 21% of the core columns were severed, with many more damaged.

Unlike most office fires, the crashes piled debris against the furthest walls and corners, which actually PROVIDED fuel for persistent fires right at the most vulnerable points in the buildings! (Bet nobody saw that coming). Ever made a campfire, cooked over it, but it kept burning for hours later, because of the fuel of the wood? Paper, desks, fabrics of chairs, walls - it all fed the FIRES!

The temperature simulation for the 82nd floor in the South Tower shortly before its collapse, shows the fires concentrated around the NORTHEAST corner! Although steel doesn't melt until it reaches 2750 degrees F, it LOSES 50% of its strength at 1100 degrees F!! The worst of the WTC fires were burning at 1800 degrees F!!

As the weakened floor trusses sagged, they pulled on both the core columns and perimeter columns. Because the perimeter columns provided only 40% of the building's support and were weakened the most by fire, the sagging caused the perimeter columns to bow inward. Yes; the sagging floors pulled the outside walls INWARD.

South Tower bowing @ 9:53

Further bowing, South Tower @1 minute before collapse:

This bowing continued, until the perimeter columns finally reached their breaking point - and they SNAPPED!
The SNAP is what confuses people; yet, as you can see from the two photographs, it took an awfully long while to reach the break point!

The fact that the worst fires took place where the debris was concentrated, is why the South Tower collapsed to the east, and the North Tower to the south.

The North Tower had half as many floors of weight on its weakened columns, which is the reason it stood TWICE as long as the South Tower, but its own collapse was inevitable.

At 10:21 AM, a NYPD aviation unit officer reported that the North Tower was buckling in the southeast corner, and leaning south:


At 10:23, a NYPD officer took this photo @ 10:23 AM, which shows bowing of as much as 55 inches INWARD (where visible):


Let's have a CLOSE-UP of that, shall we?


See, conspiracy theorists CANNOT discredit the bowing theory in the face of the photo/video evidence, confirming it as fact.

Ergo people like Alex Jones and his ilk fabricate their own Strawman arguments that "fire doesn't melt steel", and then attack this absurd argument instead. Of course it didn't melt!

Ultimately, it was the fires and the sagging floor trusses that bowed the columns is what led to the collapse of both towers of the World Trade Center. Not a controlled demolition, as you can see by the photographs I've provided.

9/11 answered in a NUTSHELL, Let the TRUTH be known!

Once the planes hit, the Chain Reaction had begun; there was no stopping Physics in this reality.

I saw some of you ask: Why did God let this happen? He did not. Man has free will, which in these incidents, were enacted in a most horrible way. It is God who loves all his children. It is God who LOVES us all - it is man who turns brother against brother, and KILLS.

Remember, the many heroes born that day, people who willingly gave their lives, to save others? THAT was God's LOVE and MERCY: saving as many people as possible, before the metal fatigued and snapped, bringing the towers down.

So, don't go blaming God for this. The only way to stop this from happening, along with the invasion of Afghanistan & Iraq, all the countless innocents lost from war would be using the Ark of the Covenant, the Mercy seat, and going back in time before the Terrorists even got on board the planes. How many of you would willingly give up your lives, to fuel the Ark, while the Lord's Angels do this? It would take 144,000 to 500,000 pure souls to power it, without a doubt in their hearts and minds.

Yup, didn't think so - you'd be afraid to lose what you have today. Time stands the way it is, and with the consequences that have been wrought, stand.

But consider this: Everyone who died in that time period, would be brought back to life, you wouldn't remember this time stream at all. It would only be echos, with Deja Vu - a possibility to change the future, that we've already lived.

THAT is what I believe the Ark is for: to change something this horrible, along with the consequences.

I recall that the Ark being officially discovered in the early hours of 6/25/09, in Ethiopia. I also recall something HUGE:

EARTH SONG!! What happens, when it was finished and shown in 3D in 2010? EVERYTHING WAS REVERSED, and RESTORED back to NORMAL!

It all clicked in my head, along with the harmonic frequencies in the song. That the Ark of the Covenant is not only created as a weapon, but also for good! It could be used to RESTORE the Earth and US back to a certain point in time. A giant "game reset," if you will, for us all.

Violence begets Violence! Only Love, Forgiveness and Mercy is what stands beyond the madness of war.

How many of us are willing to sacrifice for this Earth song rewind, if that indeed is what Michael's asking for?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgeNDUChKPA[/youtube]

"Mercy Seat" in English. Name is kapporeth, is probably derived from kaphar, which is often considered to mean cover, the literal meaning of kaphar is wipe out, implying that kapporeth means "thing of wiping out/thing of cleansing."
Perhaps that's what it literally does: wipes out, by going backwards in time, thus giving us all a second chance to do it right.

[LoveShyMichael]

There were 47 huge steel core columns in each Tower, and 24 such support columns in WTC 7 (NIST 2005; NISTb, 2005).
The WTC towers were solidly constructed with 47 steel core
columns and 240 perimeter steel columns. 287 steel-columns total.
Many doubt that random fires/damage could cause them to
collapse straight down (official theory), and suspect explosives.

Steel-frame: Huge core (left) is an enormous heat sink. Notice workers standing on floor pan
which is
firmly attached to the interconnected core columns.

The NIST report makes for interesting reading. The less severe cases based on empirical
data were discarded because they did not result in building collapse. But ‘one must save the
hypothesis,’ so more severe cases were tried and the simulations tweaked, as we read in the
NIST report:
The more severe case (which became Case B for WTC 1 and Case D for WTC 2) was
used for the global analysis of each tower. Complete sets of simulations were then
performed for Cases B and D. To the extent that the simulations deviated from the
photographic evidence or eyewitness reports [e.g., complete collapse occurred], the
investigators adjusted the input, but only within the range of physical reality. Thus,
for instance,…the pulling forces on the perimeter columns by the sagging floors
were adjusted... (NIST, 2005, p. 142; emphasis added.)
The primary role of the floors in the collapse of the towers was to provide inward
pull forces that induced inward bowing of perimeter columns. (NIST, 2005, p. 180;
emphasis added.)
How fun (perhaps) to tweak the model like that, until the building collapses -- until one gets the
desired result. But the end result of such tweaked computer hypotheticals is not compelling.
Notice that the “the pulling forces on the perimeter columns by the sagging floors were adjusted”
(NIST, 2005, p. 142; emphasis added) to get the perimeter columns to yield sufficiently – one
suspects these were “adjusted” by hand quite a bit -- even though the UK experts complained
that “the core columns cannot pull the exterior [i.e., perimeter] columns in via the floor.”
(Lane and Lamont, 2005; emphasis added.)

So how does the NIST team justify the WTC collapses, when actual models fail to collapse and
there are zero examples of fire-caused high-rise collapses? Easy, NIST concocted computergenerated
hypotheticals for very “severe” cases, called cases B and D (NIST, 2005, pp. 124-
138). Of course, the details are rather hidden to us. And they omit consideration of the
complete, rapid and symmetrical nature of the collapses.
 Here are some issues about the September 11th attacks to consider:
World Trade Center Towers
    Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel.
    Footage shows explosives were placed in both towers before the attack to cause the towers to disintegrate into dust.
    The towers fell exactly into their footprint, taking the path of most resistance in about 10 seconds, the same amount of time it takes an object to fall that distance in a vacuum.
    The towers tossed massive steel beams 200 feet in each direction, too far to be explained by a gravity collapse.
    Survivors and firefighters report explosions at the BASE of the WTC towers at the same time as the planes hit it - how did Osama do this?
    Pools of molten metal were found 7 stories under the towers 6 weeks after the attack. It takes 3000+ degrees Fahrenheit to turn steel into liquid. Where did this energy come from?
    The top of the south tower began to collapse sideways, then righted itself, falling into it's footprint. This is impossible with only gravity working to collapse the tower.
Building 7
    It was a 47 story, steel-framed building that disintegrated later in the day, also from explosives. It was not hit by any planes. How did Osama pull this one off?
    The 23rd floor was the Mayor’s "Emergency Command Center," a reinforced bunker which had its own air and water supply. Could this have been the command center for destroying the towers?
Pentagon
    How does a 65 ton Boeing 757 with a 125 foot wingspan fit through a single 16 foot hole in the side of the Pentagon leaving virtually no wreckage?
    There is no evidence of a Boeing 757, seats, wings, engines, luggage or the dead passengers at the Pentagon.
    The Pentagon security video suggests a missile explosion rather than a jet fuel explosion.
    There is a hole through 3 rings of the Pentagon, totaling 9 solid feet of steel reinforced concrete the object would have to penetrate, and experts believe this to be very unlikely.
The Planes
    The planes that hit the WTC towers, from viewing the footage in slow motion, do not appear to be standard passenger jets.
    What is the explosive flash on the side of the towers just before the planes penetrate the buildings?
    With Flight 93, the reported flight of the "Lets Roll" heroes, wreckage was strewn 8 miles from the crash site when this plane was reported to be "ditched" in Pennsylvania. How is that possible?
    At least 8 of the reported 19 "hijackers" are still alive, as reported by the UK Guardian Newspaper.
    There are no Arab names on ANY of the passenger lists for the 4 hijacked flights.
    There is no video showing the "hijackers" boarding any of the planes, only fuzzy security footage from Logan Airport for a connecting flight.
    Cellular phone calls are nearly impossible in flight above 8000 feet as cell phones have low power and cell towers point downwards.
A physics professor at Brigham Young University has published a paper concluding that available evidence indicates that the World Trade Center towers were demolished by explosives (pdf). 60 of his fellow professors agree with his analysis and are simply calling for more investigation, as we are. Is that too much to ask?

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

dont you know??!?! they actually found a passport of a terrorist at ground zero theat flew out of the plane during the collision....

they found no iron black box...
they found no metal plane as it had disinegrated due to fuel combustion heat levels...

yet they found a paper, yes paper passport that not only MIRACULOUSLY survived the heat / fire / explosions, but then also MIRACULOUSLY
was found amongst vast piles and piles and piles and piles or debris, bodies, paper, metal, concrete dust, iron, ash, blah blah blah......


PUH-LEASE!!! :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes:


seriously what do you take us for?

[Tink]

@LoveShyMichael WTC were constructed differently than any other buildings of their time. They quickness of their construction, proved to be their Achilles heel.

I said the metal didn't melt, but SNAPPED when they fatigued! I dislike what I say be taken out of context.

The photos I posted are the truth.

But, if you're happy with the Strawman Arguments, so be it - they're circular.

@Australian MJ BeLIEver - did it ever occur to you that the terrorist may have left his passport in his jacket on the seat, when he went into the cabin?
When you look at natural/unnatural disasters, it's amazing what happens, and who survives.
I don't tell God what he can, and cannot do.
Do you?