Time of Death

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Offline mjboogie

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Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 12:25:42 PM
I am sorry that I have to reopen this particular topic. But was there an exact time of death established for MJ? I mean how long was he deceased. I know they declared him dead at UCLA right? The only reason I am asking this is because of conflicting stories about how long MJ had already been dead before Murray supposedly found him? People like Latoya that keep saying that he had died around 9 or 9:30 that morning. Ok but...how would she know this ... she was not there. What was the condition of his body when he was brought in because if he had been as long as some are speculating then did he die overnight u know like at 3 or 4 that morning? I don't know what to think anymore. Paramedics claimed he was already dead when they arrived? How do we know any interviews with paradmedics who were there that day? The timeline is soooo confusing!!! :cry:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Kirsche

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: "mjboogie"
I am sorry that I have to reopen this particular topic. But was there an exact time of death established for MJ? I mean how long was he deceased. I know they declared him dead at UCLA right? The only reason I am asking this is because of conflicting stories about how long MJ had already been dead before Murray supposedly found him? People like Latoya that keep saying that he had died around 9 or 9:30 that morning. Ok but...how would she know this ... she was not there. What was the condition of his body when he was brought in because if he had been as long as some are speculating then did he die overnight u know like at 3 or 4 that morning? I don't know what to think anymore. Paramedics claimed he was already dead when they arrived? How do we know any interviews with paradmedics who were there that day? The timeline is soooo confusing!!! :cry:


Some people said that he was already dead when he had been "rushed" to the hospital and the official time of death is 2:26pm, when Jermaine made the statement
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline XspeechlessX

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:09:28 PM
Well... the official time of death is 2:26pm
According to some... he was still in rehearsals at 12:00 that day.
Others claim he died around 11:30..

and then theres LaToya....

...any progress on this ??

 :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline MJhunny

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:10:37 PM
according to the death certificate , they don't even know WHICH DAY HE DIED ON...
Look at it , the box where you should put the "DATE of last seen alive" is'nt even filled in.
Thanks to bad_girl for pointing this out :idea:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:18:42 PM
Randy Phillips stated in an interview that MJ was on life support at the hospital and the staff were waiting for katherine to arrive for them to turn it off..  he said that the hospital staff told him he had no brain function.  But if he was on life support he must had had a heart beat at this point.

[youtube:349f4uzz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKcVI3lXgQ0[/youtube:349f4uzz]

Randy says he was at the hospital with Frank Dilelio and they were working on MJ at the hospital and they had him on life support he has no brain function but his HEART WAS BEATING.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MJJ1982

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:34:32 PM
I was thinking about his time of death a few days ago... Something isn't right.
If he died at 2.26pm, the time in the Netherlands was 11.26pm. But at that time, the first rumours came on tv here. So I switched to CNN, and a couple of hours (?) later CNN stated his death (although they were talking about a statement from TMZ all the time)
So they confirmed his death hours later than he had really died? :?

It's driving me crazy:
Was he a DOA? Did he die in hospital after they worked on him? Or did he die at home?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Ninanina

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:44:59 PM
I sent an email to Ed Winter about that exact question, but didn't get a reply, yet.
If there's no answer in the first week of January, I will email again or call.

If he will answer, that he was dead for hours, he'd bring a lot of people in some serious trouble, wouldn't he?

I wrote:
"Dear Mr Winter,

as there are so many different confusing reports on Michael Jackson's
death, I want to ask you, if you can provide a time of death.

First it was said, that he had a faint pulse, when paramedics arrived,
but later reports said, he was already dead for hours.

I'd be very thankful, if you could clear that up for me.

Best regards,

"

Oh, and I read somewhere, that they couldn't point out the time of death, because it was more than 40°C or something in Michael's bedroom and the body was warm, but I can'T remember which conflicting story this part belongs to...  :roll:
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 01:46:32 PM by Ninanina »
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Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:46:22 PM
Has anyone got any links to these claims that MJ was dead when paramedics arrived?  Or DOA?

Who is the source for these claims?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ninanina

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
Has anyone got any links to these claims that MJ was dead when paramedics arrived?  Or DOA?

Who is the source for these claims?

Dead on arrival (from a "reliable" source"):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/06/26/2609545.htm

Dead when paramedics arrived (only tabloids, none of the big media reported that):
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/ ... -propofol/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline bad_girl

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 01:59:06 PM
Quote from: "MJhunny"
according to the death certificate , they don't even know WHICH DAY HE DIED ON...
Look at it , the box where you should put the "DATE of last seen alive" is'nt even filled in.
Thanks to bad_girl for pointing this out :idea:

thx to mjhunny for actually posting the picture, because i didn't know how to re-size it, but this information seems to have been considered "worthless" by certain people L.O.V.E
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Ninanina

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:15:58 PM
Quote from: "bad_girl"
Quote from: "MJhunny"
according to the death certificate , they don't even know WHICH DAY HE DIED ON...
Look at it , the box where you should put the "DATE of last seen alive" is'nt even filled in.
Thanks to bad_girl for pointing this out :idea:

thx to mjhunny for actually posting the picture, because i didn't know how to re-size it, but this information seems to have been considered "worthless" by certain people L.O.V.E

Huh?
What's wrong, bad_girl?
Where did she post a pic - can't see it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline larab

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
the death was called, by dr. richelle cooper, at 2:26pm.. jermaine's press conference was a little later..I'm not sure. I really don't remember..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:23:23 PM
Quote from: "Ninanina"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
Has anyone got any links to these claims that MJ was dead when paramedics arrived?  Or DOA?

Who is the source for these claims?

Dead on arrival (from a "reliable" source"):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/06/26/2609545.htm

Dead when paramedics arrived (only tabloids, none of the big media reported that):
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/ ... -propofol/

The first link is quite interesting as it states:  Los Angeles coroner Fred Corral told CNN that Michael Jackson was pronounced dead after arriving at the hospital in full cardiac arrest.

Now... i think Randy Phillips may be the truth holder here.  It is possible MJ was brought in without a pulse but the got it back whilst at the hospital.  However in a heart attack case, once the heart stops beating there is only a 3 minute window to get it beating again before the brain starts dying due to lack of oxygen.
So maybe they got it back at the hospital but by then it was too late as the brain had died so they placed him on life support until his mother arrived.  Sad.. but that may be the truth?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Alem (Thetruth)

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:26:19 PM
The doctors would not try to revive a dead person for two hours, its not standard procedure. All this conflicting and inconsistencies doesn’t make any sense, anything about this case doesn’t make any sense that is why I’m still here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline SPAKKLE29FUL

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:29:13 PM
NO I CANT BELIEVE THIS WHAT ABOUT THE DRIP THE PARAMEDICS PUT IN BEHIND HIS KNEE ,NO ONE CAN GET ANYTHING STRAIGHT CAN THEY :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: "Alem (Thetruth)"
The doctors would not try to revive a dead person for two hours, its not standard procedure. All this conflicting and inconsistencies doesn’t make any sense, anything about this case doesn’t make any sense that is why I’m still here.

I can speak with personal experience here as i saw my father have a heart attack in front of me and his heart stopped beating and he stopped breathing.  He also effectively "died".
The paramedics who arrived at our house spent about an hour giving CPR..  shots of adrenalin, electic shocks and so on...   they were trying to stabalise him.  They would get his heart beat going again, only for it to stop again.. so they had to keep fighting to get it back and get it beating.  This happened about 7 times before they eventually got him out.
Once at the hospital my dad was in resus for hours.  And i mean hours...  they were doing all sorts to him.  They then put him on a resperator and in a drug induced coma for 24 hours.
He eventually did pull through.

So i can say that paramedics do work long and hard to try and bring someone back.

As i wasnt there i cannot comment on MJs case...  but if he was dead and cold on arrival they wouldnt have bothered.  But if he had a faint pulse.. or if they worked on him and managed to get him back.. then its possible and explains all the time delays at the house and at the hospital.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:38:31 PM
And if my version of events i have described are true.. then that means that MJ was a fit man because his body was fighting it.  His heart must have been strong for them to work on him for that long.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Alem (Thetruth)

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
Quote from: "Alem (Thetruth)"
The doctors would not try to revive a dead person for two hours, its not standard procedure. All this conflicting and inconsistencies doesn’t make any sense, anything about this case doesn’t make any sense that is why I’m still here.

I can speak with personal experience here as i saw my father have a heart attack in front of me and his heart stopped beating and he stopped breathing.  He also effectively "died".
The paramedics who arrived at our house spent about an hour giving CPR..  shots of adrenalin, electic shocks and so on...   they were trying to stabalise him.  They would get his heart beat going again, only for it to stop again.. so they had to keep fighting to get it back and get it beating.  This happened about 7 times before they eventually got him out.
Once at the hospital my dad was in resus for hours.  And i mean hours...  they were doing all sorts to him.  They then put him on a resperator and in a drug induced coma for 24 hours.
He eventually did pull through.

So i can say that paramedics do work long and hard to try and bring someone back.

As i wasnt there i cannot comment on MJs case...  but if he was dead and cold on arrival they wouldnt have bothered.  But if he had a faint pulse.. or if they worked on him and managed to get him back.. then its possible and explains all the time delays at the house and at the hospital.
I’m sorry to hear what happened to your father but I’m glad he made it.

The strange thing with this case is that with all the inconsistence and lies there lay some truth but it’s hard to distinguish the truth from the BS. As far as we know the paramedics worked on Mr. Jackson for about 45 minutes before heading to the hospital which lays only minutes away, when they arrived at MJ’s place (according to reports and statements) he was already dead which doesn’t make any sense to try to revive him, if in fact he wasn’t clinically dead which is not the same as being “completely dead”. After failing to revive him they “rode fast” to the hospital. But with the ambulance going slower than my grandmother and having a dying man in the ambulance, I don’t know what they were thinking.
Either way when finally arriving to UCLA hospital Michael had to have some sort of life signs, or else they would not revive him as you also stated.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
All he wanted was the mountain high
Beyond these boundaries,he wanted to fly
In nature\'s scheme,never to die
– MJ



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Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:45:52 PM
Yes.. the only reason they would have tried to revive him at the house or hospital is if he had any life signs.  

If he was dead and cold they would not have.

I am obsessed as anyone in trying to get to the truth as it makes me feel better.  All this confusion is what makes me mad.  I want to know so i can be at rest in my minds.  
If anything.. Michael Jackson deserves the truth to be known.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline larab

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:46:45 PM
they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DancingTheDream

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:52:20 PM
Quote from: "larab"
they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.

The problem with that is that once the heart stops beating there are only 3 minutes before the brain starts dying as the blood stops moving around the body and the brain is starved of oxygen.
I think that is why Randy Phillips account sounds authentic to me now i have had a good think about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Alem (Thetruth)

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 02:54:16 PM
Quote from: "larab"
they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.

How do you know this? Standard prosedures dont allow that as far as my understanding goes, its more plausible that the paramedic thought he was dead though he "only" was clinically dead, which is NOT the same and there is a tiny chance of a sucsessfull recovery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
All he wanted was the mountain high
Beyond these boundaries,he wanted to fly
In nature\'s scheme,never to die
– MJ



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Offline MJJ1982

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: "larab"
they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.

I don't really get it.. Your brain dies completely within 10 minutes after your heart has stopped. So what kind of life do you have, if they try to revive you after a couple of hours...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\'Just because it\'s in print, doesn\'t mean it\'s the gospel\'

\'A star can never die. It just turns into a smile and melts back into the cosmic music, the Dance of Life\'
You\'re just another part of me... I love YOU more...

Offline larab

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: "Alem (Thetruth)"
Quote from: "larab"
they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.

How do you know this? Standard prosedures dont allow that as far as my understanding goes, its more plausible that the paramedic thought he was dead though he "only" was clinically dead, which is NOT the same and there is a tiny chance of a sucsessfull recovery.

Murray was the higher authority. The only thing the paramedics could do was to obey. They had no voice on this. about this new technique, I read it on an article probably before michael's death. I think it was a greek doctor who developed it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline larab

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Re: Time of Death

  • on: December 28, 2009, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
Quote from: "larab"
they do work for hours in a "dead" body..specially if they can get a heartbeat eventually.
there is this new technique at ucla to revive people who have been dead for a couple of hours. they probably tried that too.

The problem with that is that once the heart stops beating there are only 3 minutes before the brain starts dying as the blood stops moving around the body and the brain is starved of oxygen.
I think that is why Randy Phillips account sounds authentic to me now i have had a good think about it.

IF you do nothing about it. if you put an oxygen tube down the person's throat and do CPR , the chances of survival increase. sometimes people DO come back after hours of CPR. I think randy phillips was the one to say that they put michael on a life support until his mother arrived or something(but that would mean he was already brain dead).
maybe they were able to get hearbeats eventually, then they kept trying, because that would mean he was still "there"..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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