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gwynnedTopic starter

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 07:03:34 AM
Really?  Thanks everyone for not thinking I'm crazy.    I have to admit, I've been hesitant to check back on this thread, fearing I would be banned or merely dismissed or laughed at.  That I'm supported is totally amazing and heartening to me. 

 :bearhug:
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Andrea

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 08:20:08 AM
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Quote
I don't think anyone here is  passing judgment on Michael's behavior.  And at one time, I bought the whole victim story.  We were meant to.  Otherwise what happened wouldn't make sense.  For example, we all recall Michael telling the story about his stay in prison and showing his bruises.  Now, I don't have the kind of access to money or power, but if that happened to me, I'd sue their asses.  Big time.  The only way we could believe a person of Michael's stature and notoriety did nothing is if we saw him as a basket case.

 And if he didn't have the wearwithall to stand up for himself, what about his family?  WTF!!!  Are you telling me his mother couldn't have at least picked up the phone and called a lawyer?  Ah, but we learned that Michael was a bit estranged from his family, etc.  BUT, every day, people broken by the system, without the means to defend themselves ARE beaten and thrown in cells full of shit.  We can identify with Michael's powerlessness, and while most of us may not have ever inhabited a cell, we know and can feel, nonetheless, the prison that surrounds us and are powerless against it. 

He was the man in the mirror.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable.  He was awkward, had bad hair days.  He loved his kids but made errors of judgment.  He was contradictory.  He was anything but perfect.

Holy smokes Gwynned, that's one of the most spectacular things I have ever read on this forum. Hats off girl!


I agree, brilliant insight Gwynned!  I was very tired last night when I initially read your post but upon re-reading with a fresh mind, this makes a whole lot of sense.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable. - Very true. An example of this, I think this explains the shopping spree in Vegas with Bashir - it reflected the materialistic nature of people, particularly Americans.  Michael did dupe Bashir (and everybody) by demonstrating certain human weaknesses and many were affronted by this because perhaps it was something they didn't want to admit about themselves.  Nothing gets people more defensive and on the offensive when they realize the truth of something in themselves that they don't like.
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sweetsunsetwithMJ

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Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 08:58:12 AM
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I am reminded of Al Sharpton's line to the children at the memorial where he said .......There was nothing strange about your Daddy...what happened to your Daddy was strange .
I think we must make adjustments for the unique circumstances that Michael grew up in, before labeling what we consider to be strange behavior. Not one of us here would know what it's like to be working and supporting your family at the age of 6 years old [and in seedy strip clubs and adult venues] during these impressionable and formative years. What we are possibly  interpreting as strange behavior may be the outcome of his unique life experiences. I've always wondered how the man could get a decent night's sleep when he knew there were stalkers and obsessive fans waiting outside his gate at any and all times. Things like that would have to play on your mind some. That one example would cause me great paranoia and angst.
 I'm not debating that there are elements to Michael's public image that are part of a persona, but I am asking us to factor in when we look at what we consider strange behavior,  that fact that his life and formative years were , shall we say unique. 


It's a pitty because you started a very good post and argument but sorry to tell you that you are wrong when you say his fans are the problem to his bad sleep, his fans are the only ones that really love him and give everything to him, if necessary, I think Michael wouldn't be able to live without those fans that take care of him the best way they can, I mean come on RK if you told me that Michael can't sleep because those evil guys are lurking behind his money or trying to make of his life a real hell I would understand you but my friend in this case you have failed, imagine Michael's life if he went on stage again and he won't find the love of his fans I think he would feel very empty, that's just my opinion don't have to be yours of course.
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I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE!!

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gwynnedTopic starter

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 09:08:15 AM
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I agree, brilliant insight Gwynned!  I was very tired last night when I initially read your post but upon re-reading with a fresh mind, this makes a whole lot of sense.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable. - Very true. An example of this, I think this explains the shopping spree in Vegas with Bashir - it reflected the materialistic nature of people, particularly Americans.  Michael did dupe Bashir (and everybody) by demonstrating certain human weaknesses and many were affronted by this because perhaps it was something they didn't want to admit about themselves.  Nothing gets people more defensive and on the offensive when they realize the truth of something in themselves that they don't like.

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts.   :bearhug:

And thank you for describing more precisely what I was trying to say regarding the mirroring. 

I've had this theory lately that we draw to ourselves people we have something we need to learn and/or emulate, but in a more dramatic and obvious way.  For instance, I once was involved with a man who is extraordinarily messy.  Some would agree that I am as well, but I hadn't really noticed because (1) it's my mess and (2) I was used to it.  But I couldn't ignore HIS mess and began to look at my own with new eyes. 

So what I'm saying is that Michael deliberately mirrored back exagerated tendencies of ours.  And I think you really nailed it with that whole scene with the sarcophagus.  There are certainly other meanings to that scene (ties to Egypt, lets say, and reminders that we are immortal beings), however his delivery is a bit odd.  Very dreamy almost like he was on some sort of drug.  And when Bashir asks him why he would want to buy a sarcaphagus (a logical question!), he responds, 'Because it's beautiful.' 

You really tipped me off with this and I hope I'm not going too far in suggesting that Michael was mirroring the hypnotic state we enter when we enter the commercial world.  It's largely why I rarely go into large department stores.  I know that I'm susceptible to temptation and could likely buy something I don't need and probably don't even want just because it's beautiful.  Concurrent with Michael's shopping sprees it's rumored he's in debt to his eyeballs.  What a gorgeous metaphor.  Michael mortgaging his own future to buy his final resting place, denying that he's ever going to die!  Look at all the people who refinanced their homes to buy luxuries they didn't need, thereby sealing their fates, literally buried under a pile of debt. 
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Dontwalkaway

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Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 10:09:15 AM
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Are YOU for real ?

So according to you, since how long is MJ supposed to "not exist" ?
From the moment he faked his fatherhood ? for the moment he decided to fake a child molesting trial ? or during all the years he was called a wacko for just living his life ?
Would one of you tell me when exactly this "impersonating" started and what for ?

Cause if we are to be "honest", you have to tell me WHY MJ pulled up a "great illusion" in which he fights with Sony, doesn't tour for 10 years, has more debts you could ever think of, is called pedophile and wacko by half the planet...

Tell me what was the plan. Cause obviously, it seems it was the worst idea in the known universe.

You have to open your eyes and stop trying to find the best explanation to anything MJ does or did, or will do. Things happen, and pretending "it's illusion" maybe makes you feel better with the image you wish to have of MJ, but doing this is creating an illusion in which you feel good.

Sometime life sucks and even for Michael Jackson.

I think you are asking a good question.  If there was all this manipulation then what was it for ?  Well, I think he told us.  "It's All for Love ".    Maybe part of it could be for security and privacy because the world can be "rotten" you know, but I feel like it's all part of a higher plan.  A plan to heal the world and in my opinion he's working with "God".    The World has been manipulated for centuries, even thousands of years.  We don't see the illusion so he's making us "see" it.  The only way we can heal the world is to break down all these illusions, unite, learn the truth, and take control of the world back, and BRING LOVE BACK INTO THE WORLD.    If you start researching you find out that we don't know the truth about "anything".  (Not history, not science, not religion, not space travel, not politics, not current events).  We continue to let TPTB manipulate and control us.  The way to get control back is to spread truth and bring love back into the world.  Get rid of fear and spread love and then we can evolve. 

That's what this was for in my opinion.  But, he said he can't do it by himself.  It's for us.  "It starts with us, or it'll never be done".   That's what the soldiers of love and the army of love is for.  The first "love" soldiers in order to spread truth and love.  Someone had to start it, so thank you so much Michael.  I know it wasn't easy for MJ and has been very difficult.   I don't even have the words right now to say how thankful I am.  It was all for a higher purpose.  A great learning experience and a "great adventure".  It's just hard for us to sort it all out sometimes.

LOVE         :-*           
Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:15:40 AM by Dontwalkaway
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"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

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gwynnedTopic starter

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 11:48:11 AM
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I think you are asking a good question.  If there was all this manipulation then what was it for ?  Well, I think he told us.  "It's All for Love ".    Maybe part of it could be for security and privacy because the world can be "rotten" you know, but I feel like it's all part of a higher plan.  A plan to heal the world and in my opinion he's working with "God".    The World has been manipulated for centuries, even thousands of years.  We don't see the illusion so he's making us "see" it.  The only way we can heal the world is to break down all these illusions, unite, learn the truth, and take control of the world back, and BRING LOVE BACK INTO THE WORLD.    If you start researching you find out that we don't know the truth about "anything".  (Not history, not science, not religion, not space travel, not politics, not current events).  We continue to let TPTB manipulate and control us.  The way to get control back is to spread truth and bring love back into the world.  Get rid of fear and spread love and then we can evolve. 

That's what this was for in my opinion.  But, he said he can't do it by himself.  It's for us.  "It starts with us, or it'll never be done".   That's what the soldiers of love and the army of love is for.  The first "love" soldiers in order to spread truth and love.  Someone had to start it, so thank you so much Michael.  I know it wasn't easy for MJ and has been very difficult.   I don't even have the words right now to say how thankful I am.  It was all for a higher purpose.  A great learning experience and a "great adventure".  It's just hard for us to sort it all out sometimes.

LOVE         :-*         

 :th_bravo:
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Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 04, 2013, 01:20:02 PM
I have sort of refrained from posting on this thread for some reason....though it's a brilliant thread and I have enjoyed reading it for sure. 
Truth is, from the onset of his career I have seen Michael as a character.  He lit up the stage in childhood and continues today.  His persona
on stage....which is every time he's in public.....is only what he wants us to see or perceive him as.  Gwynned's post was a great summation
of how Michael thinks, I believe.  I have always seen characters from Michael....as far as the public person.
Like the Sony speech....totally from the heart.  He put on the badge of
courage to stand up and fight for what's right.  How many times have we had the opportunity, but looked the other way? At times, he dressed as if
to be socially unacceptable.  How many times have we looked at someone and said, ".....ugh, they shouldn't be wearing that.".  But for MJ, well,
he's MJ....all things are acceptable.  Because the media did a fantastic job is discrediting him i.e. Wacko Jacko, etc.  So anything he did, he had to
outdo himself with.  To keep ramping up the mirroring of society.  To then use images of violence....like the bruises......real or not, doesn't matter
because the public got a front row seat to Mj's abuse.  By that time, the public was so programmed to see and expect odd things, it didn't matter.
He managed to craft himself into what Gwynned was saying....the literal man in the mirror.......reflections of all of us, of mankind.  He did so
with perfection.  Perhaps, as time went on, he used doubles here and there for a mirroring effect of the mirror.  Constant confusion of personalities,
of artistry, of social acceptance all melded within one person....Michael Jackson.  He's brilliant really.  Nobody in the history of entertainment has
been able to comment more on social aspects of life.  He has used his gifts, his money, his time to bring to the forefront, many issues.  From abuse,
to bad hair days (lol......count me in!) he has shown the world: sh*t happens.  It's how you deal with it that makes you the better person. 
If This Is It, was to be his, "final curtain call".....we best start believing, we're in it (a nod to Pirates of the Caribbean).  It's not going to last forever......
almost sad.  But, if we are ever to learn about the true Michael Jackson, it has to end.  The parade of characters, the political and social statements,
the extreme musical talents all wrapped up into a gift: Michael Jackson.  An enigma of staggering proportion. 
I guess nothing will surprise me.  But I can't help think, we have yet to see the real Michael.........he's out there, that's for sure.  It's an adventure,
an amazing adventure.

Blessings Always
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curls

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 05, 2013, 04:20:28 AM
These lyrics from  'Is It Scary?' keep going through my mind as I read this thread:

..........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me
Your warning me
To be the stranger
In your life

Am I amusing you
Or just confusing you
Am I the beast
You visualised
And if you wanna to see
Eccentric oddities
I'll be grotesque
Before your eyes

Let them all materialise

Is that scary for you baby
Am I scary for you
Is it scary for you baby
Is it scary for you
You know the stranger is you
Is it scary for you baby
.........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you gonna see
So did you come to me
To see your fantasies
Performed before your very eyes

A haunting ghostly treat
The foolish trickery
And spirits dancing
In the night
But if you came to see
The truth the purity
It's here inside
A lonely heart

So let the performance start .........
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gwynnedTopic starter

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 05, 2013, 06:40:18 AM
curls....good point!  I have not really paid attention to this song so I looked up all the lyrics.  Just after your last line is this curious stanza:

Quote
Masquerade the heart
Is the height of haunting souls
Just not what you seek of me
Can the heart reveal the proof
Like a mirror reveals the truth
See the evil one is you

Some time ago, I was watching one of 12 million hoax videos  :Pulling_hair: and can't remember which one!  But for a moment the words 'The evil is in you" flashed on the screen.  I can't say why that one line out of millions stuck with me, but it did.  If as is said in Heal the World 'We create the world we live in,' this evil inside is reflected back to us.  Logic would dictate that if we were able to remove this 'evil' we would be able to 'live' (note evil is live spelled backwards!!!) more harmoniously.  But the very first step in removing the 'evil' is to see it. 

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suspicious mind

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 05, 2013, 07:59:16 AM
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These lyrics from  'Is It Scary?' keep going through my mind as I read this thread:

..........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you wanna see
It's you whose haunting me
Your warning me
To be the stranger
In your life

Am I amusing you
Or just confusing you
Am I the beast
You visualised
And if you wanna to see
Eccentric oddities
I'll be grotesque
Before your eyes

Let them all materialise

Is that scary for you baby
Am I scary for you
Is it scary for you baby
Is it scary for you
You know the stranger is you
Is it scary for you baby
.........

I'm gonna be
Exactly what you gonna see
So did you come to me
To see your fantasies
Performed before your very eyes

A haunting ghostly treat
The foolish trickery
And spirits dancing
In the night
But if you came to see
The truth the purity
It's here inside
A lonely heart

So let the performance start .........

fits like a glove
:moonwalk_:
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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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Adi

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 05, 2013, 07:46:14 PM
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I don't think anyone here is  passing judgment on Michael's behavior.  And at one time, I bought the whole victim story.  We were meant to.  Otherwise what happened wouldn't make sense.  For example, we all recall Michael telling the story about his stay in prison and showing his bruises.  Now, I don't have the kind of access to money or power, but if that happened to me, I'd sue their asses.  Big time.  The only way we could believe a person of Michael's stature and notoriety did nothing is if we saw him as a basket case. 

And if he didn't have the wearwithall to stand up for himself, what about his family?  WTF!!!  Are you telling me his mother couldn't have at least picked up the phone and called a lawyer?  Ah, but we learned that Michael was a bit estranged from his family, etc.  BUT, every day, people broken by the system, without the means to defend themselves ARE beaten and thrown in cells full of shit.  We can identify with Michael's powerlessness, and while most of us may not have ever inhabited a cell, we know and can feel, nonetheless, the prison that surrounds us and are powerless against it. 

He was the man in the mirror.  Michael mirrored back to us, or shall we say 'acted out' aspects of ourselves we would deny and think unlovable.  He was awkward, had bad hair days.  He loved his kids but made errors of judgment.  He was contradictory.  He was anything but perfect.


Yes  - Michael Joseph Jackson "alleged victim" .... indeed not a victim at all.
Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 07:52:19 PM by Adi
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bec

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 05, 2013, 07:52:24 PM
Wow Adi, excellent connection.
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Are you entertained?

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suspicious mind

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 05, 2013, 11:40:48 PM
have wondered from time to time if the brothers could also have sometimes "played the role" of michael


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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

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diggyon

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 06, 2013, 03:46:21 AM
Sorry, I don't get it! You guys think MJ did not suffer from any disease and that he was just pretending to be a drug addict? But why? Yo serve the hoax that was planned 20 years ago?
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Together we are strong

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln

Thank you Michael for letting me discover the truth!

I lost the bet, Sarahli won it! ! ! loool


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curls

Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
May 06, 2013, 08:05:49 AM
And while we're on the subject of 'playing the victim', how about pyjama day in court 2005?  You're not telling me someone from his camp would not have ensured he got some trousers on no matter how late for the court deadline they were!  No, that was surely MJ's idea!
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