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blankie

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 02:59:10 PM
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yes, they are very selective in what 'outrages' them aren't they,  :icon_lol:


@ hopi    They are indeed 


Agree with you !!!   :icon_razz:
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LOVE YOU MORE

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~Souza~Topic starter

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 03:44:45 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?
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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 04:29:04 PM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.
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~Souza~Topic starter

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 04:41:57 PM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

Uhmmmmm, and you are here because?
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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 04:51:50 PM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind.  Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 04:55:27 PM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

Uhmmmmm, and you are here because?

looking for hope simply because I love Michael and want him be alive. I am curious to find here  solid argument and fact that there is a hoax. I don't mind his death be hoax and would be plausible if "investigators" here could find and prove undeniably that MJ staged his death.
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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 05:41:39 PM
The 'investigators' here don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's up to each individual to seek their truth.

Sorry that I put my two cents in when your conversation is with Souza, but I couldn't help but say something. I'm not sure if you realise so benefit of the doubt that you didn't, but that statement you made is insulting.

Meanwhile, this place isn't founded on hope it is founded on obvious observations that there was a death hoax on 25.06.09.

If you can't see it, it means you're not looking because with respect the signs are everywhere.

All the best with your research   :smiley-vault-misc-150:
Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:42:33 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

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Snoopy71

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 05:49:39 PM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.

Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.


In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.


He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)

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I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak.... 

And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:


I think the helicopter was a "diversion".

As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".

I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...

It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO  :icon_neutral:



Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:59:48 PM by Snoopy71
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Andrea

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 05:59:05 PM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind.  Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.


Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.
Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 06:06:12 PM by Andrea
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Snoopy71

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 06:15:26 PM
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Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.

It would explain a lot in one lump sum.... The helicopter crew would know it was a decoy, and so would the coroner.

As far as the dummy or live MJ....I tend to think "dummy" only because many photographs show Michael had "dummys/mannequins" everywhere.

...but the flip side of that is Lou Ferrigno's interview statement about "Michael riding in ambulances".... It could go either way I suppose. :icon_e_confused:
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paula-c

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 06:33:34 PM
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The 'investigators' here don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's up to each individual to seek their truth.

Sorry that I put my two cents in when your conversation is with Souza, but I couldn't help but say something. I'm not sure if you realise so benefit of the doubt that you didn't, but that statement you made is insulting.

Meanwhile, this place isn't founded on hope it is founded on obvious observations that there was a death hoax on 25.06.09.

If you can't see it, it means you're not looking because with respect the signs are everywhere.

All the best with your research   :smiley-vault-misc-150:












And also i would add that the list of strange things is very large
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Andrea

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 13, 2013, 06:50:19 PM
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Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.

It would explain a lot in one lump sum.... The helicopter crew would know it was a decoy, and so would the coroner.

As far as the dummy or live MJ....I tend to think "dummy" only because many photographs show Michael had "dummys/mannequins" everywhere.

...but the flip side of that is Lou Ferrigno's interview statement about "Michael riding in ambulances".... It could go either way I suppose. :icon_e_confused:



Could be a dummy with live MJ.  In disguise.  Is there to make sure everything goes exactly as planned and doesn't have to worry anyone will recognize him.  Anybody who really sees the dummy is in on it, based on their actions.  The ambulance photo is explained more easily this way than the exercise we took with TS, although that was certainly a valuable learning experience.  There is a sleight-of-hand while at the hospital and the coroner van we see from the helicopter drop off is a media decoy, sensible explanation to those on scene, including heli staff.  MJ himself leaves the hospital via an on-ground van (or possible 2nd helicopter), to drive to the garage where we see the person jumping out of the back. That would be MJ minus a jacket (or whatever his disguise outfit was), we don't see his face in the video so it could very well still be the appearance of somebody else.  The footage we see is the day's deeds done and he's making his escape, filmed by someone planted there. Ideally.
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sweetsunsetwithMJ

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 14, 2013, 10:05:27 AM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.

Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.


In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.


He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)

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I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak.... 

And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:


I think the helicopter was a "diversion".

As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".

I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...

It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO  :icon_neutral:

I am more than sure that Michael had been giving us clues of what it was gonna be his upcoming hoax  throughout his interviews during all these past years, if we listen carefully to them we might find many cryptic messages that now a days would have sense when it didn't have in that very moment, so yes Snoopy71 I totally agree with you.
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I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE!!

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sweetsunsetwithMJ

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 14, 2013, 10:17:51 AM
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You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind.  Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.


Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.

I would only understand this theory if the DWD theory or MJ live on the stretcher theory were true, I mean for what the media needed a decoy or bait? to mislead the media while the stretcher was heading to UCLA and wanted to go unnoticed?or am I not making sense here?.
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Andrea

Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video
January 14, 2013, 10:43:52 AM


The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations.  If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area.  The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario.  Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.
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