Coroner Van Video

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Offline Andrea

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 12, 2013, 10:29:08 PM
Well, this video could have been done another day

Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.

How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.

I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.

Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.

I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.

Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.



Exactly bec.  We were shown a glimpse of truth with that video.  And excellent point about the lack of reaction from the Jacksons.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 10:29:48 PM by Andrea »

Offline hopi

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 03:10:21 AM
Well, this video could have been done another day

Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.

How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.

I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.

Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.

I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.

Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.



Exactly bec.  We were shown a glimpse of truth with that video.  And excellent point about the lack of reaction from the Jacksons.

Yes, never thought about that - really good point  :smiley_abuv:

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 03:13:47 AM
yes, they are very selective in what 'outrages' them aren't they,  :icon_lol:
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


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Offline hopi

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 03:22:27 AM
They are indeed  :icon_e_biggrin:

Offline MJonmind

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 04:32:26 AM
Bec
Quote
Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.

I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.
Yep! :Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile

Reminds me of the blue-shirt guy in the crack showing in the gate at Carolwood, who we initially thought could be MJ, but TS took us through to realizing it was some other 'random' guy wandering in through the gate. Then there was the 'random' medical person that looked like MJ, carrying the stretcher into UCLA, that TS debunked also. My point is that, I’m sure those are well-placed people, and hours of footage were captured, but only select minutes were submitted for public viewing, and at UCLA only a few sequential pics. I can just picture MJ sifting through all the footage and deciding which ones are perfect. Like he said on the MTV interview, “I’m not always happy with certain cuts or angles…It’s got to be just right.”

Offline blankie

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 03:59:10 PM
yes, they are very selective in what 'outrages' them aren't they,  :icon_lol:


@ hopi    They are indeed 


Agree with you !!!   :icon_razz:
LOVE YOU MORE

Offline ~Souza~

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 04:44:45 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

Offline guestfortheday

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 05:29:04 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

Offline ~Souza~

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 05:41:57 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

Uhmmmmm, and you are here because?

Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 05:51:50 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind.  Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.
"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
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Offline guestfortheday

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 05:55:27 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

Uhmmmmm, and you are here because?

looking for hope simply because I love Michael and want him be alive. I am curious to find here  solid argument and fact that there is a hoax. I don't mind his death be hoax and would be plausible if "investigators" here could find and prove undeniably that MJ staged his death.

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 06:41:39 PM
The 'investigators' here don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's up to each individual to seek their truth.

Sorry that I put my two cents in when your conversation is with Souza, but I couldn't help but say something. I'm not sure if you realise so benefit of the doubt that you didn't, but that statement you made is insulting.

Meanwhile, this place isn't founded on hope it is founded on obvious observations that there was a death hoax on 25.06.09.

If you can't see it, it means you're not looking because with respect the signs are everywhere.

All the best with your research   :smiley-vault-misc-150:
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 06:42:33 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
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Offline Snoopy71

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 06:49:39 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.

Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.


In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.


He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)

http://youtu.be/OgWTi6ipK0M



I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak.... 

And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:


I think the helicopter was a "diversion".

As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".

I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...

It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO  :icon_neutral:



« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 06:59:48 PM by Snoopy71 »

Offline Andrea

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 06:59:05 PM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind.  Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.


Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 07:06:12 PM by Andrea »

Offline Snoopy71

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 07:15:26 PM

Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.

It would explain a lot in one lump sum.... The helicopter crew would know it was a decoy, and so would the coroner.

As far as the dummy or live MJ....I tend to think "dummy" only because many photographs show Michael had "dummys/mannequins" everywhere.

...but the flip side of that is Lou Ferrigno's interview statement about "Michael riding in ambulances".... It could go either way I suppose. :icon_e_confused:

Offline paula-c

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 07:33:34 PM
The 'investigators' here don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's up to each individual to seek their truth.

Sorry that I put my two cents in when your conversation is with Souza, but I couldn't help but say something. I'm not sure if you realise so benefit of the doubt that you didn't, but that statement you made is insulting.

Meanwhile, this place isn't founded on hope it is founded on obvious observations that there was a death hoax on 25.06.09.

If you can't see it, it means you're not looking because with respect the signs are everywhere.

All the best with your research   :smiley-vault-misc-150:












And also i would add that the list of strange things is very large

Offline Andrea

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 13, 2013, 07:50:19 PM

Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.

It would explain a lot in one lump sum.... The helicopter crew would know it was a decoy, and so would the coroner.

As far as the dummy or live MJ....I tend to think "dummy" only because many photographs show Michael had "dummys/mannequins" everywhere.

...but the flip side of that is Lou Ferrigno's interview statement about "Michael riding in ambulances".... It could go either way I suppose. :icon_e_confused:



Could be a dummy with live MJ.  In disguise.  Is there to make sure everything goes exactly as planned and doesn't have to worry anyone will recognize him.  Anybody who really sees the dummy is in on it, based on their actions.  The ambulance photo is explained more easily this way than the exercise we took with TS, although that was certainly a valuable learning experience.  There is a sleight-of-hand while at the hospital and the coroner van we see from the helicopter drop off is a media decoy, sensible explanation to those on scene, including heli staff.  MJ himself leaves the hospital via an on-ground van (or possible 2nd helicopter), to drive to the garage where we see the person jumping out of the back. That would be MJ minus a jacket (or whatever his disguise outfit was), we don't see his face in the video so it could very well still be the appearance of somebody else.  The footage we see is the day's deeds done and he's making his escape, filmed by someone planted there. Ideally.

Offline sweetsunsetwithMJ

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 14, 2013, 11:05:27 AM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.
The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

And coroner would write fake autopsy report on VIP who really is alive..  why?
Let me guess the answer- yes, because coroner is in the hoax. Again- why? how?
It's just this hoax looks like backed up on theories that based on vague and groundless assumptions and even, at the times, on certainty that no one has clear explanation. On top of it, Michael for some reason isn't coming back.

The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.

Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.


In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.


He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)

http://youtu.be/OgWTi6ipK0M



I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak.... 

And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:


I think the helicopter was a "diversion".

As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".

I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...

It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO  :icon_neutral:

I am more than sure that Michael had been giving us clues of what it was gonna be his upcoming hoax  throughout his interviews during all these past years, if we listen carefully to them we might find many cryptic messages that now a days would have sense when it didn't have in that very moment, so yes Snoopy71 I totally agree with you.
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Offline sweetsunsetwithMJ

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 14, 2013, 11:17:51 AM
You know, I always thought that circus with the helicopter was over the top and looked more like a distraction for the media. What if there were two vans? The whole heli and van thing in the video a media decoy, the other 'real' one with jumping MJ entering another part of the building? Or a whole different building for that matter.

You know, if as less people as possible should be in on the hoax, then it's better to tell the employees at the coroner's office that he was brought to a different location due to high profile whatever. That way only the coroner himself needs to be in on it.

The guy making that video was supposed to make that video, because else he wouldn't have waited two months to release it. In those two months, RTL had time to make a making off, while having the original video as a reference. What I don't get is why they would release that 'it was all a hoax' video from RTL that fast. Maybe it was enough to spread doubt and served its purpose? The guy was definitely meant to make that video, why else send (an) MJ in a van anyway when he could have been transported in a car or whatever else?

OMG Souza, you must be reading my mind.  Always, always just looked out of place to me; the reason I rarely ever added to any discussion about it.


Yes, the possibility of a decoy van crossed my mind as well.  I also remember something that paula said about two helicopters..? Maybe two helicopters and two vans then?  One real (containing live MJ) and one fake, the media bait?  If a decoy van is the one we saw on tv, then the helicopter would need to be a decoy as well, since the video we see shows the transfer from heli to van and the van driving into the coroner's.  The "RTL" video shows the same license plate number but it would be easy enough to have two vans with the same license numbers - with the explanation of all the above to employees being that of privacy.  This vid shows heli to van to coroner's.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSbGUFcbMg[/youtube]



Edit: Snoopy, just saw your reply.  Yes the helicopter itself could've been a diversion and the van we see would therefore be a decoy for the media and public to see.  Whether it was a diversion or if there was a 2nd helicopter, the media would've been told "the heli with MJ's body is leaving now!" and their attention would be all over that.  Both of these explanations could also support live MJ theory, with a dummy as well.  The use of a dummy that day makes sense in that we've seen a dummy was used in the planning of the hoax (ambulance pic) even though we know that pic wasn't taken "on the fly" that day.   OR MAYBE IT WAS and the pic they got was chosen as the best (those cameras shoot super fast) and the "body" in the back WAS a dummy.  So the photo is still fake because of the dummy but also real in a sense too.  Just thinking out loud.

I would only understand this theory if the DWD theory or MJ live on the stretcher theory were true, I mean for what the media needed a decoy or bait? to mislead the media while the stretcher was heading to UCLA and wanted to go unnoticed?or am I not making sense here?.
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Offline Andrea

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 14, 2013, 11:43:52 AM


The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations.  If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area.  The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario.  Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.

Offline Snoopy71

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 14, 2013, 11:54:55 AM

The more I think on it, the more I too think the helicopter was a diversion.

Michael knew there would be a "media circus" and the reason I think he came up with this "diversion" had a lot to do with the birth of Prince.


In this interview with Barbara Walters....Michael remarks on the media scrutiny surrounding the birth of Prince and he made careful mention of the helicopter coverage.... "over the hospital", "over his house", satellite coverage, paparazzi etc...and on some level he had to know his "death" would cause just as big a media stir.


He mentions the media coverage at about (2:14)

http://youtu.be/OgWTi6ipK0M



I just tend to believe something more if I hear it straight from the "horses mouth" so to speak.... 

And if he's talked about it, then he's probably created a plan for it....this is my thinking anyway. :icon_neutral:


I think the helicopter was a "diversion".

As far as the vans....well, I'm sure there's a statement out there regarding that as well in an interview. I'm beginning to think in his interviews there's more to what Michael himself is "saying" that links to what we are actually "seeing".

I think the support for evidence is found in the verbal interviews of Michael and other people involved...

It's the only "proof" we have beyond 100% pure speculation....just IMO  :icon_neutral:

I am more than sure that Michael had been giving us clues of what it was gonna be his upcoming hoax  throughout his interviews during all these past years, if we listen carefully to them we might find many cryptic messages that now a days would have sense when it didn't have in that very moment, so yes Snoopy71 I totally agree with you.

Thanks Sweetsunset.  I think we need a new approach with some of this research. :icon_e_confused:

Michael manipulated the media....this we know...through interviews, his music videos, his albums etc...  To me he's our biggest source of reliable information.

Example....TII "Four years to get it right"...he says this and clearly we know he's not speaking about the concert tour.

....in the Bashir interviews he says he "never wants to die...never be buried", he makes mention of the "gold sarcophagus" he bought (think gold casket/memorial). Items he bought for "another home"  etc...

I'd be curious to know if there is a thread for "picking apart" the MJ interviews...there are tons out there. Might be something worth digging into. :compute:

Offline paula-c

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 14, 2013, 06:43:20 PM
Well, this video could have been done another day

Sure. It could have been that day as well. All we know for certain is the van in the video didn't pull in to the usual dock of the LA County Morgue where they unload bodies. So it was for certain a deviation from the standard procedure that we can witness on the documentary video.

How do we know this? The video ellyd posted shows standard operating procedure for LA County Coroner when dropping off a dead body at the morgue and the location in the documentary video does not match the location shown on van video.

I think van video is a strong suggestion to the audience of what REALLY happened that day and that is it's purpose. I don't think it was filmed live as suggested on 6/25/09. Now THAT would have been risky. What if blue shirt guy wasn't alone? What if there were other people with cameras that followed the van as well? Too many variables to try to control and the duration of drive time/distance from entering the garage and drop off that is suggested on the tape is too close to the street. Towel on his head or no towel, some guy looking like MJ jumping out of the back of the van escorted by a big black body guard looking dude is going to make anyone's head turn on 6/25/09.

Blue shirt guy may have been at a mark and staged to slip into the garage after the van live on 6/25/09 in order to set the stage for this video later, with his presence at the scene designed to lend credibility to van video when the facts were reviewed. OR OR OR... blue shirt guy was some anonymous stranger who just happened to be there and was caught on camera running in after the van and MJ USED this chance event and chance random guy to lend realism to his van video prank, though that seems awfully lucky, it's still possible.

I agree with others who says it's MJ's work. It's got his stink all over it, as they say. When put together with the events of 6/25/09, it's superb theater.

Another reason to call BS on the RTL explanation: The Jackson family never condemned RTL for this. If MJ were really dead, this type of "prank" would cause outrage in the family.



Exactly bec.  We were shown a glimpse of truth with that video.  And excellent point about the lack of reaction from the Jacksons.




















The family never said anything of RTL or TMZ, i believe that once Jermaine and Janet said they were going to sue TMZ... :-*

Offline MJonmind

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 18, 2013, 03:22:38 AM

The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations.  If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area.  The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario.  Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.
Remember we discussed quite a bit about the team getting out of the coroners van again, after they put in the body and closed all the doors.  It almost looks like the first guy takes something off or puts something on the license plate at 4:54. We had talked about a slight variation between 2 plates, a number and trim or something.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiU90NLcvIE[/youtube]

And there's something about MJ's jackets that are hoaxy special.  I made the discovery that the bloody shirt in the closet had part of the exact same jacket that MJ wore when he was disguised as Uncle Willie.  In the store of mirrors MJ has on a green jacket and people think there's 2 MJ's but it's an illusion IMO, and oddly Arnie K wanted his expensive greet jacket back. :icon_lol: 

So here he is with a long white jacket, strange. I can find pics of him wearing a short or regular white jacket, or white over shirt, but no super long jacket like this. And doesn't MJ look a bit short here?  I think it's someone else.


Offline paula-c

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 18, 2013, 09:10:41 PM

The need for a media decoy is based on assumptions/speculations.  If MJ were at UCLA that day and needed to get out of the building with no one noticing and also assuming that the coroner van video was shot live that day, but not at the normal coroner drop-off area.  The van filmed from the air would be the decoy in that scenario.  Assumptions are often wrong but are still possible until they are debunked with certainty.
Remember we discussed quite a bit about the team getting out of the coroners van again, after they put in the body and closed all the doors.  It almost looks like the first guy takes something off or puts something on the license plate at 4:54. We had talked about a slight variation between 2 plates, a number and trim or something.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiU90NLcvIE[/youtube]

And there's something about MJ's jackets that are hoaxy special.  I made the discovery that the bloody shirt in the closet had part of the exact same jacket that MJ wore when he was disguised as Uncle Willie.  In the store of mirrors MJ has on a green jacket and people think there's 2 MJ's but it's an illusion IMO, and oddly Arnie K wanted his expensive greet jacket back. :icon_lol: 

So here he is with a long white jacket, strange. I can find pics of him wearing a short or regular white jacket, or white over shirt, but no super long jacket like this. And doesn't MJ look a bit short here?  I think it's someone else.


















This  spectacle, and not  there was a helicopter flying over Carolwood that day :animal0017:


Offline wishingstar

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Re: DEBUNKED: Coroner Van Video

  • on: January 19, 2013, 09:12:30 AM
I can't help but think this coroner van stuff is one big shell game.  The way the van drives off from the helicopter, drives around the bushes, under the over-hang of trees,  loops back.....it's like it was set up for another van to come in slyly and take the place of the original......like a shell game of sorts.......which van is he now?  Now we see him, now we don't....enough to make the head spin for sure. 
The most suspect point is when the van goes under the trees and is out of sight for a moment......was there another van that emerged those few seconds later, perfectly timed.  Or just before it enters the garage?  Where was it the helicopter landed?  It wasn't at the coroner's office, I thought I heard "UC" or something, then it drove to the coroner...I'll have to go back and re-watch it all......lol, again.

Have a great day....
Blessings

 

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