Alternate Reality Game (ARG)

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Sorry for 'post bombing' I forgot to add: If this is and ARG and in specific a role playing ARG, does that make TS a character who is just playing a role? If so, does that make his promise of BAM unreliable? Does that mean the deadline he gave shouldn't be taken literally? Or does his deadline mark the end of ARG and Bam? Just thinking out loud. Don't necessarily think this.

In addition: I am really glad I haven't formed by belief in hoax based on TS / Front. To me it were the observations that others made and shared here on forum and on YT that once I viewed showed me conclusively that he is alive. To me TS and Front were cream on the cake, made me think and provided much entertainment and triggered many interesting conversations that make us discover more and more new things, even if they ultimately end up to be unrelated. (look at how many of us had religious / bible related discussions for example)

Anyhow. If Front and TS turn out to be characters of a game and if some of what they posted to us turns out not to be completely dependable. (Such as Bam date) I take comfort in knowing that even if these two characters and everything they said are deducted from the hoax equation, WE KNOW THE TRUTH and that was that MJ faked his death on 25.06.09. Even if that is all we ever get out of this and no Bam, then we are the privileged few amongst all of MJs fans that got to see 25.06.09 for what it really was.

On the flip side. (Re: Bam) If we again deduct Front / Ts and their promises of Bam from the hoax equation and look simply at music lyrics, Jackson family and TII - Then then a Bam is still inevitable as that is what is being insinuated plus I am sure we can all "feel it quite strongly" that this is all building up to a crescendo. This media stuff about Jackson estate / family can't go on forever.

I frikken LOVE this rabbithole! Ok, now I'm babbling. Over and out.


EDIT: for the record I think MJ is behind front and at a minimum someone from MJs camp behind TS.

[Adi]

Shikster!! - I remember him. He was cool. At least I always thought Shikster was a "he".

Wrote great poetry and riddles...I always thought he possibly may have been MJ way back then.

I also remember going down the ARG rabbit hole very early on in the hoax (helped of course by TS's redirect to the NIN Year Zero ARG) and all that info on the wiki page about ARG's was so very applicable to this hoax. As well of course the Joey Skaggs information. Wasn't it thought at one stage that Joey Skaggs was actually the person behind Jonell Star TV  YouTube videos about the hoax? They were one of the very 1st to start making hoax videos I seem to recall:

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[bec]

Yeah something very fishy about that Jonell Star. She was the first to make hoax videos but she never participated in the forum. I believed it was a hoax before I watched her first video but there was no going back after viewing what she put together about the ambulance footage, the photo, the helicopter, all compelling.

Dozens of other hoax video makers spun off of her launch pad. She was the first and only for a very long time (felt very long back then, was probably only a month or so).

Shikster disappeared for a long time right after I yelled at him because he was letting people call him "MJ". That rubbed me wrong. So much like I asked sehf to clarify, I asked him to do the same and stop perpetuating this nonsense and then *poof* he split. He showed back up a year or so later writing poetry. The original Shikster was so much more interesting, he posted good, interesting investigative things... leads in hindsight. He posted leads. For whoever wanted to look into it further. He never really followed up, just let others present the depth of his original idea. Like the PT Barnum stuff.

We should talk about how quantity of players has never been a focus of this ARG. There has never really been a push to get more people involved. Even TS said last year that we have reached critical mass. Those who don't believe probably never will, and those who believe probably will never change their mind. TS never tried to sway people, never tried to "prove" he was legit. Neither did Front. They both could have gotten the entire hoax community on board in about 3 keystrokes if they wanted to... yet they seem not to want to. The reasons behind that are sort of murky for me.

I understand quality vs. quantity, but this seems too massive an undertaking to cater to less then 50 gamers for such a duration of time as we have endured.

[ellyd]

Quality vs quantity - audition for later purposes - how many can a stage allow to shine?

Anybody else entertained the thought that we took the initial spark, continue to write the book and that we could determine when the story - and how - ends?

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Is it possible ARG is not the purpose for hoax, but ARG running 'along side it' for legal implications post bam. And the ARG is just designed to indemnify MJ and family from repercussions from hoax? Therefore no need to grow it (regarding quantity comment above) as Bec mentioned above not a push to te more on board?


Bec can you please clarify something, in case I am misunderstanding your post. You mentioned critical mass, I remember those posts too. Then 'those who don't believe probably never will and those who do will never change their mind' again I remember such posts.

But can you please clarify do you think these comments about critical mass within perimeter of ARG or the hoax full stop. I seem to remember a post can't remember if it were a front or TS, where it was talking about bam. There were speculations of members about possibility of people not recognizing bam or doubting bam / MJ return when it happens.

The last line in your last post reads to me as though you are referring to hoax when you say 'massive undertaking'

I got the sense from TS / Front that BAM will be an unmistakable event to worldwide audience.

[Adi]

Posting that Jonell Star Youtube link got me watching their videos again.........interesting the ones with interviews with Joey Skaggs in them. Makes me wonder if Joey Skaggs in anyway was/is helping MJ in this hoax.

Yeah Shikster - I do remember him posting little snippets of leads for people to follow, he was really an extremely fascinating "character" in the very early stages of the hoax. He grabbed my attention very early on when I was merely a MJHD member who read ALOT there but didn't post very much back then. Good times........

[bec]

Is it possible ARG is not the purpose for hoax, but ARG running 'along side it' for legal implications post bam. And the ARG is just designed to indemnify Therefore no need to grow it (regarding quantity comment above)


Bec can you please clarify something, in case I am misunderstanding your post. You mentioned critical mass, I remember those posts too. Then 'those who don't believe probably never will and those who do will never change their mind' again I remember such posts.

But can you please clarify do you think these comments about critical mass within perimeter of ARG or the hoax full stop. I seem to remember a post can't remember if it were a front or TS, where it was talking about bam. There were speculations of members about possibility of people not recognizing bam not knowing or doubting bam / MJ return.

The last line in your last post reads to me as though you are referring to hoax when you say 'massive undertaking'

I got the sense from TS / Front that BAM will be an unmistakable event to worldwide audience.

I think similar to you, hoax-ARG running parallel. I think of it as a game based on a movie.

TS hinted at the legal protection offered by hoaxers with his definition of a Sting. I see a parallel in his words that perhaps we protect MJ from his own fans who may accuse him after the fact of deceit.

I do think the ARG itself has been a massive undertaking. The online presence to kick this off and keep it going and make it tick has to be huge, from all the rabbit holes dropped, to all the websites and phone numbers, back stories and photographs, clues dropped in interviews, Twitter accounts, Facebook, MJJC, here... etc etc etc.

That's a whole lot of work for the 50 or so of us who appreciate it right now.

[ellyd]

Intimacy does not count for thousands.
We look into Michael's bedroom, he looks into our life.
We enjoy Michael's work, he enjoys our talents.
"we wanna show them t(ime)(alent)".

[emulik]

Intimacy does not count for thousands.
We look into Michael's bedroom, he looks into our life.
We enjoy Michael's work, he enjoys our talents.
"we wanna show them t(ime)(alent)".

yes and that is what all of this adventure/journey is about..we have unique and once in a lifetime chance to learn things with "better" eyes, get to know him little bit more (to the limit what he wants us to know) and during this long time of researching and learning we are discovering new things about ourselves, too! I am so grateful for that!  :th_bravo:

[MJonmind]

Ellyd

"The art of storytelling at this point is not about dictating to an audience.
It's a dance.
It's a 'hold out your hand' and ask if the other person would like to play too."

Hope you enjoy dancing with us this far, Michael, as much as we do.

That’s why thinking MJ is cruel to his fans for lying to them, is completely missing the whole point, missing the beauty and sublime loving gift this is to his fans from Michael.

how many can a stage allow to shine?

That reminds me of the number of people on the stage while MJ danced on the tables in OMC—are we about that number here who are die-hards?  Was there 50 up there? (Bec you mentioned that number.)

We look into Michael's bedroom, he looks into our life.
We enjoy Michael's work, he enjoys our talents.

I hope he feels as blessed by our response as we do receiving his work/insight into his life/heart.

Bec, the only push for quantity was the whole trying to get the word out on MJ and Elvis on twitter and other media, which seemed forced and unnatural to me at the time—I didn’t really get it, and there was a bit of a push for joining the Army of Love, although I don’t know what that really achieved either.

Unless it's the ultimate mind fuk... and we will be so cocky and sure of ourselves and our newly comprehended reality that we need to get knocked off our feet and driven back into the emotional rollercoaster with the ultimate let down just prior to the ultimate elation... and 1/1/2013 comes n goes n here we sit, deflated, defeated, depressed, and driven to the brink of our self confidence.

It just feels as if this adventure needs eventually an ending. So even if there’s no Bam, we need someone telling us at least, “The ARG is officially over.  Thank you for your participation and enthusiasm. It was nice getting to know you, and it was fun. Blessings and goodbye. Be sure to check out the MJ website for future events/projects.”  Then perhaps our forum could even plan for an event in some city for everyone to travel to and get together.  It’s like we need closure, otherwise there’s the nagging feeling the MJ-deaders were right after all, and then Jan1, 2013 it will be our turn to grieve.

Don't mean to dig up old controversy but if the ARG was started in Bad era, the fact that he told Branca back then he wanted his life to be the Greatest Show on Earth, and that a year or so after giving the P.T. Barnum book to each of his staff, the Pepsi fire took place in 1984.  Throughout the years sometimes he/others would sign/write legal documents with middle name Joe and sometimes with Joseph, and with all the many evil aspects of people around Michael intertwined with the fact that the MJ death hoax is an ARG, it makes me question YET again, the whole horrific times of all the accusations and 2005 trial, and the major role they play in the passion people have for the man, whether love or hate. Were these events part of the ARG?  Passion is wanted in ARG’s. I know it seems unthinkable, but always in the back of my mind for 3 years now, it has played occasionally.  Back called out Harvey as on his evil list and yet TMZ has been key throughout the hoax, so was Back simply playing the character of a very wounded/targeted MJ?  At the same time I think the hatred (much of it racial) directed towards MJ was/had to be very real, and my heart is so broken for what MJ went through.  All of the information we have received so far on the evil people around MJ and the Hoax/ARG/Greatest Show on Earth, simply cannot co-exist at the same time. That’s precisely why there are 2 camps—those who believe he died/was murdered and those who believe he’s alive. But each of these sides tends to ignore the info out there that goes against their thinking, since trying to embrace them both as true at the same  time could make a person go insane screaming endlessly.  I can hardly think of a person who’s had more controversy in his life about every possible detail than MJ, which really has added to his being the most recognizable person on the planet, and called the greatest entertainer of all times.  Do we really know the true perimeter of this MJ ARG?  What's in it and what is not?

This is something else I’ve always wrestled with, that perhaps very few of the people involved in MJ’s life whether evil or good, is aware of the full (or any) extent/purpose of the ARG/hoax which would mean they are being manipulated by an unseen hand—I’m thinking supernatural—like God.  Because otherwise I struggle with seeing how this A.R.G. of all ARGS is humanly possible—it’s that frightfully good.  JMT

[diggyon]

That's a whole lot of work for the 50 or so of us who appreciate it right now.

First, I thought that this hoax would attract as many people as there can be because all the clues, all the videos all the winks are so logical and I always found it so strange that many people  believed that Michael died on June 25th. Now, after 3 years, the hoax videos are increasing. Google is even giving people a clue that Michael Jackson is "alive" when searching for information about him. Yet, it saddens me to see that the number of our forum users is decreasing. Instead of educating as many people as there can be, only few are aware of this ARG. I don't know if this is Michael's intention (to keep as few players as possible). Since this ARG has changed our lives to a better one, how come we are not many! How come this ARG is not well known on a higher level! I though Michael wanted to clear his name, raise awareness, educate people etc....., yet not many have taken notice yet! But when the Bam comes, then it will be too late for those who didn't join us at the very beginning. I consider myself very lucky. But I feel sorry for those who haven't found the forum and didn't join us yet, although they might have the feeling that Michael might sill be alive! 

Blessings

[emulik]

We look into Michael's bedroom, he looks into our life.
We enjoy Michael's work, he enjoys our talents.

I hope he feels as blessed by our response as we do receiving his work/insight into his life/heart.
+1

It just feels as if this adventure needs eventually an ending. So even if there’s no Bam, we need someone telling us at least, “The ARG is officially over.  Thank you for your participation and enthusiasm. It was nice getting to know you, and it was fun. Blessings and goodbye. Be sure to check out the MJ website for future events/projects.”  Then perhaps our forum could even plan for an event in some city for everyone to travel to and get together.  It’s like we need closure, otherwise there’s the nagging feeling the MJ-deaders were right after all, and then Jan1, 2013 it will be our turn to grieve.

great post MJonmind! I share your feelings  :icon_razz:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Bec, the only push for quantity was the whole trying to get the word out on MJ and Elvis on twitter and other media, which seemed forced and unnatural to me at the time—I didn’t really get it, and there was a bit of a push for joining the Army of Love, although I don’t know what that really achieved either.

Perhaps the Army of Love push, was not for now but for later, post BAM when MJ comes our and need united support?

Don't mean to dig up old controversy but if the ARG was started in Bad era, the fact that he told Branca back then he wanted his life to be the Greatest Show on Earth, and that a year or so after giving the P.T. Barnum book to each of his staff, the Pepsi fire took place in 1984.  Throughout the years sometimes he/others would sign/write legal documents with middle name Joe and sometimes with Joseph, and with all the many evil aspects of people around Michael intertwined with the fact that the MJ death hoax is an ARG, it makes me question YET again, the whole horrific times of all the accusations and 2005 trial, and the major role they play in the passion people have for the man, whether love or hate. Were these events part of the ARG?  Passion is wanted in ARG’s. I know it seems unthinkable, but always in the back of my mind for 3 years now, it has played occasionally.  Back called out Harvey as on his evil list and yet TMZ has been key throughout the hoax, so was Back simply playing the character of a very wounded/targeted MJ?  At the same time I think the hatred (much of it racial) directed towards MJ was/had to be very real, and my heart is so broken for what MJ went through.  All of the information we have received so far on the evil people around MJ and the Hoax/ARG/Greatest Show on Earth, simply cannot co-exist at the same time. That’s precisely why there are 2 camps—those who believe he died/was murdered and those who believe he’s alive. But each of these sides tends to ignore the info out there that goes against their thinking, since trying to embrace them both as true at the same  time could make a person go insane screaming endlessly.  I can hardly think of a person who’s had more controversy in his life about every possible detail than MJ, which really has added to his being the most recognizable person on the planet, and called the greatest entertainer of all times.  Do we really know the true perimeter of this MJ ARG?  What's in it and what is not?

You raise some interesting points... Some that have been the basis for controversial discussion previously. (not saying you are doing that now) but yeah just highlighting that should the ARG have commenced a long long time ago and not just with DH, it puts  question mark around 05 trial, pepsi burn, and other such controversial topics.

whats fiction whats not...
:suspect:

[skyways]

On  05 THEY CRUCIFY HIM FOR REAL &#%(((!!, dear pals- for all who wasnt there at the moment((. Its assurely Grace of God that dear Mike is survive - mentally and physically- cause its simply Impossible for human to endure degree of himuliation and pain that Michael go through there((....
He was literally VANISHED at the end of it - read Jermain book extention to understand - if u wasnt see M by your own eyes at this time!!
Sneddon Is REAL, as well is shitty Gavin, who should really die of cancer as God planned him- instead be HEALED by M and accused MJ after all.
Michael give second
 life for that ungrateful snake  -> I even cant imagine on aftermath - to what extend our Michael begin to question his destiny, faith and all God's law  after  05 - to be able to back to us now with all his life-long game!((
Surely ARG is playing here for real - and so all MJ enemies was calculating his fall for sure.
But ALL KINGS TO THE KING -  Michael  Won BIG tIME! =))

Endless Love to you Mdear 4all ur L.O.V.E lesson !!

[bugsy]

On  05 THEY CRUCIFY HIM FOR REAL &#%(((!!, dear pals- for all who wasnt there at the moment((. Its assurely Grace of God that dear Mike is survive - mentally and physically- cause its simply Impossible for human to endure degree of himuliation and pain that Michael go through there((....
He was literally VANISHED at the end of it - read Jermain book extention to understand - if u wasnt see M by your own eyes at this time!!
Sneddon Is REAL, as well is shitty Gavin, who should really DIE of cancer as God planned him- instead be HEALED by M and accused MJ after all.
Michael give second
 life for that ungrateful snake  -> I even cant imagine on aftermath - to what extend our Michael begin to question his destiny, faith and all God's law  after  05 - to be able to back to us now with all his life-long game!((
Surely ARG is playing here for real - and so all MJ enemies was calculating his fall for sure.
But ALL KINGS TO THE KING -  Michael  Won BIG tIME! =))

Endless Love to you Mdear 4all ur L.O.V.E lesson !!

I'm sorry but I'm normally easy going but Sky your post is sounding hateful and I find it hard to digest
it sounds like you're full of hate not love, maybe you need to go through those lessons again. 


Gavin was a young boy at the time, he had adults around him coaxing him, prompting him, manipulating him, influencing him, they are the ones who should be held accountable, they are the corrupted ones, he was but a child following what he was told to do and no one knows what was happening for him and his siblings in that time, only assumptions and accusations and yet you declare he should have been left to die. Hasn't Michael been trying to teach us better than that? 

The adults should be held accountable and not by wishing death upon them.

I wanted to say much more about this but I don't wish to bring further negative feelings into this and will leave it at this.

No one should be wishing death on anyone, such hateful words......

Because parents have power over children. They feel they have to do what their parents say. But the love of money is the root of all evil. And this is a sweet child. And to see him turn like this, this isn't him. This is not him.
Michael Jackson