This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

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Offline supermj4eva

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This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 02:46:18 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VWs3gg_AM&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

Ok Im back now after a few months off from the hoax and I finally want to contribute something which may be of some worth.

I have watched this Billie Jean clip about a million times, and something always struck me as odd but I could not quite put my finger on it.
Then suddenly after another poster posted something unrelated about the same video it jumped out at me!!

Now I want you to bare with me here while I explain this to you and get your thoughts.

Ok my discovery is ....... That there are 2 MJ's being used for Billie Jean in This Is It!

I will now Show you where and when the 2 MJ's switch on the above video. Please read the whole thing and watch with the video before you say im wrong.

1) So in my opinion the person that does heel strike IS NOT MJ!!! He is to Short and stumpy, Shoulders too square and not enough omph in his crotch grab.

2) But you will notice the camera quickly then flashes to a front view of MJ who looks directly in to the camera and gives us an MJ face is the only way i can describe it, and his crotch grabs instantly have more omph. His shoulders are pointy he looks taller and his ears are non mistakeable!

3) This is where MJ makes it easier for us now and from now on you will mainly only have to camera angeles. One which is MJ, the other which is the impostor.

4) The camera angles look like one is the bottom left of the stage and one is bottom right both looking up towards MJ.

5) At about 0:20 of the clip it switches to the left camera angle and this is the angle I beLIEve to be the imposter. From this left angle the person performing looks, lethargic, slow, and lazy, no real energy. If you look closely you will see this person moves and walks on the soles and flats of his feet.
This is not the characteristic of a dancer usually as they are usually kind of on their toes.

6) Then at 0:33 the camera angle Jumps to the right had side and MJ instantly Jumps into life! his movements have much more energy and passion. He is kind of on his toes. Then the real give away for me, as he starts to walk he kind of swishes his left arm in front of him, and MJ always does this when he performs.

7) Then at 0:45 the camera switches again to the other side, to the left hand side again and the performer instantly seems drained of energy. His legs look a little wider, and his movements are ridged. Its as if he is made from wood.

8) The camera angle keeps switching from side to side and every time it switches it seems the MJ Performing Switches as well. If you look at 1:15 the camera should be from the left hand side and MJ or the imposter kind of puts his feet together and kind of bends his back slightly then puts his arms up in the air and then walks away to the left still bent over like an old man and really looks like he can hardly move.

9) Then at 1:23 The camera angle switches and MJ instantly looks at ease again. His legs look thinner and more agile, and bend easier lol if that makes sense. He then steps backwards and shakes his hands really fast like he does in man in the mirror and other performances.

10) The camera then switches to the left again at 1:32 the camera switches to the left again and the Impostor! the MJ there just casually stamps one foot on the floor and looked abit lazy and ridged with his movement. Again from this angle, it is easier to see his legs and you can easily see they look a little wider than the MJ from the right hand sides.

11) BAM! then at 1:39 The main chorus of Billie Jean starts and the camera flashes the the right hand side where the real MJ bursts into life once more and is really going for it.

13) then the camera flashes to the Left again and the Shorter, MJ again just looks casual and not bothered.

14) Then at 1:48 the camera flashes to the right hand side again and MJ does that thing where he reaches up and grabs the air with his fist and pulls it downwards.


Im not gunna do the whole video for you as its to long maybe just the other main parts and you can work the rest out for yourselves pretty easily.

Point one - At 2:04 MJ does like this cool Robot move and starts the slide glide, the camera the pans the the left side where the Impostor finishes off the slide glide and fails miserably at it, something MJ could always do with ease.

Point 2 - At 2:12 Camera pans to the right where The Real MJ pulls out an amazing popping move definitely him!

Point 3 - At 2-30 Fake Shorter MJ is very flat footed again and just kind of moving feet up and down not doing much, hand gestures to the camera to switch to the other MJ.


Point 4 - 2:37 Real MJ is in a completely different position to the other camera angle and effortlessly glides across the stage kicking legs out and dancing. Watch the way he walks from 2:48 - 2:50. He is completely confident in the way he carries himself and is exacly the way that MJ performs and then throws a hand in the air!

Point 5 - at 2-52 The Imposter from the left is very clumsy is randomly jumping in the air very flat footed again.

Point 6 - at 3:18 the Real MJ from the right starts pulling out the ankle breakers and twisting and body locking that the other MJ from the Left really does not look like he can do.

Point 7 - At 3:27 Fake MJ from the left finishes off Ankle breakers very dismally and cant do it. from this angle you can again see the height difference.

point 8 - The camera imiedieltly pans back to the camera on the right where the real MJ busts another amazing mover and is really pissing all over the other one to the left.

Point 9 - At 3:40 the camera goes to the left and you can see the difference again as the imposter is in a different position and looks very bad and slow again.

Point 10 - At 4:46 the Real MJ from the right claps as if to say im the real MJ!!!

Point 11 - At 4:48 Fake MJ from the left Acts to put on make up and disguise as if to say im the fake MJ! Then does a strange symbolism dance and Shouts Bam

Point 12 -  The real MJ from the Right then does the moonwalk to prove he is the real MJ.

Point 13 - The Fake MJ from the left then again fails to do the side Slide!

Point 14 - at 5:27 Fake MJ puts the wrong leg forward at the start of the Hat dance.

Point 15 - Real MJ from the right then busts another load of cool moves.



If anyone else feels they have anything to add to this then please do. Oh and this is just a thought please dont slate me if you think im wrong.


With the L.O.V.E
ITS ALL FOR LOVE - L.O.V.E

Offline bugsy

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 04:30:28 AM
I don't know, the camera's seem to be recording in different qualities, the right seems more clearer than the one on the left, and the angles are different, Also could be two different days of performances, one where he had more energy than the other...he was closer to the right recorded camera than the left so that could make a difference in how it's seen.
"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline annieareyouokannie

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 04:33:15 AM
I respect your opinion and your research, must have taken ages, but I cant see any difference at all. Sorry, but I will always believe (until MJ says otherwise) that it was all him in TII (except the window scene in smooth criminal) of course. This is just my opinion.

Offline supermj4eva

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 05:13:50 AM
I don't know, the camera's seem to be recording in different qualities, the right seems more clearer than the one on the left, and the angles are different, Also could be two different days of performances, one where he had more energy than the other...he was closer to the right recorded camera than the left so that could make a difference in how it's seen.


Hey in any other case I would agree with you although I seem to remember on the extras of the blue ray Kenny Ortega said they only ran through billie jean once, that was on June 24th and that's why MJ says at the end at least we get a feel of it. 
ITS ALL FOR LOVE - L.O.V.E

Offline eternalflame

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 07:32:14 AM
Hi supermj4eva, good to have you back!

Well, I watched the vid a few times now, your explanations seem quite clear to me, nevertheless I have in mind s.o. ( I think it was Kenny Ortega ) mentioned that MJ didn´t always give 100% in rehearsals just to save energy. Maybe that´s what you see, only 80% perfect moves when we are used to a 100% Michael?

I know it myself, as a harpist I did lots of rehearsals and performers often saved energy by singing with soft voice or dancing with reduced moves. They especially did that near the end when rehearsals took place nearly every day.

Could that be a reason you don´t recognize MJ all the  time?
"Michael I´m a dot in your right eye"

Offline supermj4eva

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 08:43:43 AM
Hi supermj4eva, good to have you back!

Well, I watched the vid a few times now, your explanations seem quite clear to me, nevertheless I have in mind s.o. ( I think it was Kenny Ortega ) mentioned that MJ didn´t always give 100% in rehearsals just to save energy. Maybe that´s what you see, only 80% perfect moves when we are used to a 100% Michael?

I know it myself, as a harpist I did lots of rehearsals and performers often saved energy by singing with soft voice or dancing with reduced moves. They especially did that near the end when rehearsals took place nearly every day.

Could that be a reason you don´t recognize MJ all the  time?

Hi eternal flame! Thanks it's good to be back lol :)
Thanks for your replies that's what I wanted to discuss your opinions on my thoughts.

Although I must say I've watched hours of rehersal footage from Michaels previous tours like history and dangerous and whilst it's true he doesn't put in half the effort that he does in live performance, you can still tell its him, Michael's movements are unique.

Maybe we can compare with this video to see what I mean.... It doesn't get into it untill about 1:15 though.

 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwAGJeLE3c[/youtube]
ITS ALL FOR LOVE - L.O.V.E

Offline marumjj

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 08:45:29 AM
Supermj4eva Hello, nice to meet you! look, IMO is MJ, just about rehearsals and I remember that somewhere TII MJ said not stress your voice and care for the show, just to dance. They can be many factors to consider in terms of performance, even if at the end of the day, maybe just tired.
Thank you for taking your time.  :bearhug:

Offline bugsy

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 10:45:28 AM
all things considered though, Age would play a big part in it with this is it, he had not been done much in the way of tours for a decade, the other night i watched 3 of his tours, Bad, Dangerous and history. I noticed something...

in thew bad tour he was making me exhausted just for watching him, he was like an energizer bunny, so hyper which spun me out lol.

then Dangerous tour he was just that little less hyper looking

and then the history tour, a lot less than the bad tour. I noticed his voice became noticeably deeper as well, as you'd expect with age.

I thought I would add the videos here, I'm not sure if anyone else will notice the differences but i did especially after having a marathon one after another lol


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg0AsWruz4k[/youtube]   87

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe-Ysx0uIt0&feature=related[/youtube] 92

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jHwKmVve6k&feature=fvwrel[/youtube]


and just adding this is it just to make the round 4 of them, although this is it is merely rehersals which is 13 years after the one above.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4IqmmZ7Z84[/youtube]

I couldn't find the billie jean ones for all of them, so picked one that was much faster and more at the beginning than later.

"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline IWantYouBack

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 10:59:18 AM
I really, REALLY appreciate all of your hard work and your research. However, I am having trouble noticing the difference. Michael has admitted that in rehearsals he never goes all out and he never adds "omph" to his dancing and singing. I recall him saying that the reason why he doesn't go all out in rehearsals is because he wants to save the magic for the stage and the live audience. Magic isn't magic if every single move and note is rehearsed.

I will always believe that it is all Michael in This Is It. I really don't think Michael would use any imposters when it comes to his rehearsals and live performances. I don't think Michael would want to risk the imposter not doing him justice during performances. Michael has an insane reputation to defend when it comes to live performances and I believe that the only person who can defend his rep is Michael himself because no imposter will ever match his skill and expertise as a performer.
Please watch my live performance of "Earth Song" and tell me what you think? :)

Jenn singing Earth Song by Michael Jackson (LIVE) - YouTube


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Jenn C

Offline bec

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 11:06:56 AM
Quote
Michael has admitted that in rehearsals he never goes all out and he never adds "omph" to his dancing and singing. I recall him saying that the reason why he doesn't go all out in rehearsals is because he wants to save the magic for the stage and the live audience.

Yes and just by dropping that line, MJ inserts the ultimate Wild Card into the TII doubles debate ever-after.

It's impossible to discern. Never will we gain a solid foothold on reality or Truth in this department.
Are you entertained?

Offline eternalflame

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 12:07:09 PM
Cool anyway to have all these awesome vids here together for comparison. Thanks! :icon_e_smile:
"Michael I´m a dot in your right eye"

Offline YoungMack

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 03:23:27 PM
Quote
Michael has admitted that in rehearsals he never goes all out and he never adds "omph" to his dancing and singing. I recall him saying that the reason why he doesn't go all out in rehearsals is because he wants to save the magic for the stage and the live audience.

Yes and just by dropping that line, MJ inserts the ultimate Wild Card into the TII doubles debate ever-after.

It's impossible to discern. Never will we gain a solid foothold on reality or Truth in this department.

Well ure right bec he did but just to let u guys know I am an artist and I have some big events here in my city and ill tell u that its GIVEN especially at MJs level that u dont go 100% so in
my opinion he did that ONLY because he knew people would question some of the doubles.

Offline MissG

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 04:56:15 PM
Michael does not look the same in TII when singing TDCAU (the video that went all over the place when he "died") and Billie Jean. The difference in weight and looks is substantial.
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Michael pls come back


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Offline supermj4eva

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 14, 2012, 11:08:53 PM
Ok so maybe I was Wrong :(


I did not want doubles in this is it coz I like to always see MJ any way but at least we had a discussion about it.
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Offline jadz29858

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 15, 2012, 04:25:06 PM
Hi I'm so glad that you have posted this. I also find this Billie Jean not quite to Michael Standards! I did post this on one of the Youtube sides but was told that it was "mirrored" so that they could get away with copy rights. I didn't find that many as you did but I did noticed the one and only thing that Michael does the best.

If you watch from 6:40 to the end the part where Michael dances and  does the kicks. We all know that Michael always kicks with his RIGHT LEG this Michael in the video kicks with his left leg!! And we know that he always made a point to tell Chris Tucker that he was kicking with the wrong leg. I don't know if this is true but when you watch the THIS IS IT it does look like the Right Leg ?????  HELP   

Offline supermj4eva

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 15, 2012, 08:34:47 PM
Hi thanks for that reply and yes I didnt see that before so good spot! Yeah I went back and watched other MJ billie jean performances both live and rehersal and he definitely kicks with his right log both kicks at that end dance, but in this is it he uses his left both times :s
ITS ALL FOR LOVE - L.O.V.E

Offline voiceforthesilent

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 15, 2012, 10:42:21 PM
Thank you for bringing this up again. I will need to look at the videos again and compare them to what you've detailed above but I've always thought that there were impersonators/doubles in at least 2 spots, this being one of them.

True that we may not know for sure and Michael definitely has his reputation on the line but the small parts played did not damage the outcome IMO.

Michael is a genius - he knows how to keep people talking and I think this is a good example.

Blessings
I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
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Offline Tove

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 20, 2012, 03:49:37 AM
I have also watched TII Billie Jean several times trying to realise what troubles me in that shoot. At firs I thought it was the playing with the sunglasses, after that i thought too there maybe also impersonator (real MJ has slimmer thies and longer legs ?). And i found the differencies in moving also. I think Michael done the biggest part in TII in directing, but he wanted to do part of the dancing and singin also by himself. I think there are impersonators in TII, you can see th difference how the crew is treating real mj and the impersonators, there is a huge respect to the real mj. I think it's quite genious really, altough the mj's seem and act very different, the large audience doesen't guestion anything beacause it is on the film :D Maybe here is a lesson to learn, we must trust our eyes and ears and guestion when everything doesen't add up?

Offline Sandal8259

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 22, 2012, 01:16:54 AM
Supermj4eva, I went back and scrubbed through the movie This Is It and you are correct in stating that there were two Michaels there. where I noticed the two was not on the stage. Michael #1 at 0:10:50(freeze the frame of this shot)and a better picture (freeze the frame of this shot) @0:11:23.  Now for Michael #2 (freeze the frame of this shot) @ 0:15:40 and another interesting thing is listen to this one voice. It sounds total different with an accent. And even a better picture when you freeze the frame of this shot @0:15:41. My heart started beating triple time.

Offline MJonmind

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Re: This is it Billie Jean possible discovery!!!!!

  • on: August 22, 2012, 06:43:49 AM
Jadz29858
Quote
If you watch from 6:40 to the end the part where Michael dances and  does the kicks. We all know that Michael always kicks with his RIGHT LEG this Michael in the video kicks with his left leg!! And we know that he always made a point to tell Chris Tucker that he was kicking with the wrong leg.

I love that video with Chris Tucker! But I really believe that TII is deliberately (by MJ) chalk full of magic/illusion/trickery/clues for fans to figure out, for controversy, challenge and pure entertainment!  MJ can speed up or slow down his dance moves, and kick with the left leg for pure prankish delight!

Though I believe this Billie Jean clip is all MJ, it’s good you analyzed it so, to get us looking closer.