Michael Jackson Estate Clears MJ's Massive Debt ... Almost

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Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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@ IWantYouBack - i'm doing sneaky stuff on computer at work again. i will read your reply and respond when i get home. definitely have an idea about your thoughts on the dancers. speak soon  :icon_e_wink:


meanwhile....

@ bec 

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But on the other hand, that MIGHT NOT BE MJ. I still hold out the possibility that there were more then one MJ staring in that interview. The differences ARE stark. I don't see how that could have all been him and I don't see how it couldN'T have been all him. It freaks me out and I don't know which way to go with the whole thing.

:icon_eek: :affraid: :icon_eek:

wow! now there adds another thing on my DH to do list. re-watch bashit interview! don't know who said it the other day, but it was on this thread, be prepared to leave everything you think you know at the door, this hoax will change the way you see things. so excited, will make time on weekend to re-watch this. do you know if this was discussed in any of the archived forums? if yes, i'll run a search so i can dig up and benefit from the conversations that were had.


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Re: the Blanket scene in the Bashir interview, I don't like it either, but mostly because MJ is genuinely PISSED OFF and trying really super hard to keep it together. It bothers me, I want to tell him, you know what? It's alright, we will finish this later. Man, geezus, let the poor guy off the hook. He's obviously having a moment.

i completely agree 100% - even before i knew abt the hoax, in fact even before MJ 'died' i always read this scene as 'anger' not as he was 'nervous' about nursing blankie. he was actually "seething" and probably wanted to lose it but maybe was trying with all of his might to maintain a cool and calm disposition and composure. i say this only because i know how i react physically when i am really really angry or peed off whilst i am in the company of others, i actually become very nervous and flustered (which is quite out of character for me) simply because i struggle to hold it in and prefer to get it out verbally. (what can i say... i am european - we're hot blooded! lol) MJ here was in front of a camera and had to keep it cool.



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Excellent synopsis, Aussie.

thanks
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline IWantYouBack

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Sorry to "barge" into your discussion with Aussie, but I really feel like answering to some of your comments.

Absolutely no need to apologize! I love discussing the hoax with anyone and everyone - feel free! Your opinion means just as much to me as Aussie's - and that goes for everyone. :)

this is the way I see this: The dancers are actors and part of the hoax. They got paid for their job. And the tears were fake.

You can definitely take it that way, but that's not how I take it. I had the opportunity to meet one of the dancers (Daniel Celebre) a couple times because he is from Toronto, which is right near my hometown. Daniel genuinely looks up to Michael - he LOVES the guy, he's a true fan, a true soldier of love. I guarantee you that his actions were not fake, and I can also guarantee you that he was devastated when he found out that he wasn't going to be able to perform live with Michael. But don't get me wrong, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your opinion. I could be wrong.

They didn't even have to be IN on it. The costume designers made the costumes and they were paid. It's none of their business what happens to the costumes after that. I rather doubt they were depressed because Michael didn't do the TII concerts with their costumes on. I think they were rather happy spending or investing the thousands of dollars (I'm just guessing) that they got for making them!

I would agree with this comment if it was some stranger on the street hosting a Michael Jackson Tribute Concert. All the costume designers would create the costumes, give it to the stranger, take their money, and spend it on a lovely new television set, and they'd be thrilled with their life. But, unfortunately, that wasn't the case. This was Michael Jackson they were creating the costumes for. They probably worked 10 times harder than they would creating a costume for a stranger. They needed these costumes to be absolutely perfect for Michael and they worked SUPER hard. Money doesn't always buy happiness. If Michael Jackson came to me and said, "Jenn, I want you be a background singer for my This Is It tour. The only catch is that you wouldn't get any money for it whatsoever". I couldn't care less! It's MICHAEL JACKSON! The salary for me is being able to perform on stage with my idol! That's better than any amount of money. That's a memory that would never go away. I wouldn't doubt that this is the same case for a costume designer, a dancer, or even the waterboy who hands Michael Jackson his water after every song. Just my opinion, though.


Maybe the point is not for them to make you believe in them , but for you to try harder to understand who they really are and what they're trying to tell us --> the MESSAGE
 JMO!

Yes, but if you don't find them trustworthy I doubt you're going to *fully* believe in their message. And so far, they haven't really given me any key information that would really make them trustworthy. We have had so many trolls come onto this website and claim to be someone they aren't it's crazy! We've been given tonnes of false information - so it's going to take a lot for me to fully believe in someone's message when I don't really know who they are, it's just human nature. But don't get me wrong, I WANT to believe in their message. I'm DYING to believe it. But I don't want my hopes to be built up and then shoved back down.

So what you're asking is in fact a BAM. A BAM is not a clue. A BAM would mean the end of the hoax. That moment is still YET to come. Until then, we've received a LOT of BLUNT "in-yo-face" CLUES and confirmations from the family regarding both TS and Front.
But as I said, I think it's up to us to find them and understand them. It's not up to them to "make us believe in them".

I'm actually not necessarily asking for a BAM. I'm asking for a never before seen, unedited picture of a recent Michael Jackson, similar to all of the 'Michael sightings' people have claimed to see, but without the editing. In my opinion, a BAM is Michael holding a press conference and showing himself to the WORLD, not posting up a picture just for BeLIEvers to see under the username of "Front" or "TS". Because even if Front or TS did post up that picture, I bet the world would still doubt it's the real Michael because they think he's dead. Again, just my opinion, I could easily be wrong.

But we DO know the causes, reasons WHY he faked his death, amongst which: EOW, the Planet being endangered, real Justice clearing his name and image, etc.... These are just a few of the reasons which indicate us that there's got to be a BAM for them to be FINALIZED.

We know SOME of the causes and reasons. There is no way we can know all of them because we aren't Michael Jackson. There could be an extremely personal reason for doing this hoax as well that only Michael knows about. And we can't say that there HAS to be a BAM for them to be finalized. We can say that it would make sense for there to be a BAM, but we just can't be sure. What if Michael is happy where he is and doesn't want to come back to his celebrity lifestyle? For the reasons we have, yes, a BAM would make sense. But, since I'm not Michael Jackson, I'm not going to walk around saying "Michael Jackson is going to be coming back soon!" I'm going to walk around saying, "I hope Michael comes back."

« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 08:46:15 PM by IWantYouBack »
Please watch my live performance of "Earth Song" and tell me what you think? :)

Jenn singing Earth Song by Michael Jackson (LIVE) - YouTube


---------------

Jenn C

Offline bec

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Oh Aussie the forum is teeming with threads about the Bashir doubles. They're old though. We couldn't make any rhyme or reason out of the whole situation so it got dropped, more or less. It doesn't fit in anywhere, seemingly, but it IS... well... that's what I see anyway, clearly. I can't understand. It's a DH mystery to me. Can't make heads or tails out of it.
Are you entertained?

Offline bugsy

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maybe his been wearing a mask for a long time  :affraid:

alright that was one of my madness thoughts, I got this silly thought what if he revealed himself and he looked more like the bad years or before then and that bit by bit he started applying a mask to make people talk..

But that's a little out there and not really reality at all but what i love about this hoax is that the possibilities are endless the imagination can take off and you enter different realms of possibilities which makes it fun.

I think in bashir he just applied the make ups differently to give different illusions.. wasn't he bashir interview done over a certain amount of months?

"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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@ leilani


No that isn’t a way out thing to say. He doesn’t look that different from Bad days.
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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actually if you do a forum search, there have been some really good montages and comparison photos posted up on the subject.

i remember reading them a while ago. i think if you are interested, check the "MJ features" board. (not exact title but something like that) the threads are quite old.


EDIT: his skin may be lighter due to more severe / advanced vitiligo, but if you look, its the same face.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 12:11:14 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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i personally believe he actually never intended to do the concerts. (again JMO, and i could also be wrong) rather, just act like it was going to go ahead.

I definitely see what you're getting at and I respect your opinion. But, the only thing that bothers me with this point of view is the dancers. Let's say for a minute that you're correct and that this is what Michael planned. You see at the beginning of This Is It that the dancers are in tears because they have almost realized their dream which was to perform live alongside Michael. Knowing how loving Michael is, and knowing how much he cares about the people of our world, why would Michael not allow for their dream to come true? Why would Michael tell them that he is looking for dancers to perform in front of live audiences with knowing that it wasn't going to happen? I think that would be a little cruel, unless the dancers were in on it and were doing some pretty incredible acting in the first scenes of This Is It. And although the issue with the dancers is my main complaint about this point of view that you have, the same goes for Kenny Ortega, the background singers, and especially the costume designers. In the This Is It credits, you see that Zaldi is creating a spectacular outfit for Michael by HAND. Michael put him to work on this knowing it was never going to happen - that just doesn't sound like something Michael would do. But, as I said before, every person involved in This Is It could be in on it, but it's unlikely in my opinion.

I get what you are saying, that it would be cruel an un-Michael. But then again IWUB, the same similar argument could be said about the millions upon millions upon millions of devestated fans when MJ "died" on 25.06.09 - which we know he didnt. My point being that to get what needed to be done, done, there had to be some collateral. MJ can't protect and ensure everyones feelings and emotions aren't hurt, otherwise DH would simply not be possible. Same with TII - They were playing a role. They may want to dance with MJ, but then again so does every other good dancer on the planet. And the reality is, its just not going to happen. However to be commissioned / paid for your role as a dancer along side MJ in the filming of TII is just as good if not better, because its not merely a concert, they are privledged to be involved in a historical never done before (to this scale) event for their dancing / music idol.

and as bec said - (not verbatim) cheesy cheesy interviews. staged for sure.

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Regarding Front and TS, I truly believe that no matter what, you can't trust everybody to the fullest. I WANT to believe that Front is Michael and/or that TS and Front know for sure that Michael is going to BAM, but I just don't know for sure and therefore I can't trust them fully. I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just saying that they haven't given me enough to make me fully believe in what they're saying. If Front posted up a picture of Michael unedited - a picture we have never, ever seen before with a sentence like "See guys? I'm Michael! You have to believe me! And to make you believe me, I will tell you something about Jermaine no one else knows! *Insert shocking Jermaine secret here*" then I would gain more belief, but that hasn't happened yet to my knowledge.

a level of caution is always wise. but too many instances (for me personally) add up. not trying to convince you of front / TS, but these two (or one) combined with the families clues / lyrical hints / etc make for a strong "bam" case.

however agree, that i cant be certain either. i feel it in my heart, but could be wrong. if TS is anythng to go by, it will happen. considering other areas that he has shed light, i tend to believe the bam promise too. but that's just me. lets see what happens end of december hey?


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Regarding Jermaine, Latoya, Paris and the rest of the clues given by people in Michael's inner circle, while they are interesting, I don't think they all point to a BAM - I think they more or less point to Michael being alive, but not a for sure comeback. For example, when Latoya told all of us to watch "The Illusionist", I watched it, but at the end, we see Eisenheim living a happy life with his lover without coming back to being the world's greatest illusionist. That clue, in my opinion, points to Michael being alive, but does not point to a BAM.

true. Eisenheim didn't come back to be worlds greatest magician. but the subject who was presumed to have died (Biels character) was not head at all, and went on to live her life happy ever after. so it could be looked at from that angle too. but each to their own, and i respect what you have taken from the movie.

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Also, you'd think that if Michael has had SO many death threats throughout his life that he would never call Dieter and leave a voice mail about it. Don't you think that for Michael to literally pick up the phone and call a close friend of his at 2 AM he must have been pretty worried about it?


don't know, i tend to think that if this were me i'd be calling the authorities if there were an imminent threat. but again, matter of opnion. could be either way.



agree to disagee. but this has been good though. thank you for sharing you ideas and opinions.

 :bearhug:
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline curls

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...... and as bec said - (not verbatim) cheesy cheesy interviews. staged for sure.


It reminded me, this talk of the dancers' interviews, of a conversation I had with someone after watching TII at the cinema. (We hadn't gone together) They asked if I'd cried, as they had, at the beginning when the dancers were talking. I said no I hadn't and they were surprised. I was surprised and puzzled - I felt as though I should have cried - hell, it was a sad situation after all. I should add that I still thought MJ was dead at this point. But it didn't feel real, it felt like a movie and with the glaringly obvious 'no RIP', it definitely got filed away in my brain's 'all is not as it seems' dept!

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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so i am interested to hear from those who believe that MJ was in great danger around time of death, now that we have seen that Katherine was apparently in possible danger and missing (this instance, a claim produced from the jackson camp - thats where is started) do you still believe that he was in the great danger that the family spoke of in interviews just after his death, again in that instance these claims came from the jackson camp. we have learned the biggest lesson about "what the jacksons say" in the past week.


also, IWantYouBack, interested on your thoughts about my comment above re: MJ fans as collateral, when he died in 09, and also if you agree that the dancers could have been part of this collateral also. (thats IF they arent in on it, and its a big if)

i think the main reason we were discussing this was the theory that TII was never going to go ahead, and the argument against that theory, that it in fact was supposed to be a concert, not just a recording.

i have re posted my reply to you below.

i personally believe he actually never intended to do the concerts. (again JMO, and i could also be wrong) rather, just act like it was going to go ahead.

I definitely see what you're getting at and I respect your opinion. But, the only thing that bothers me with this point of view is the dancers. Let's say for a minute that you're correct and that this is what Michael planned. You see at the beginning of This Is It that the dancers are in tears because they have almost realized their dream which was to perform live alongside Michael. Knowing how loving Michael is, and knowing how much he cares about the people of our world, why would Michael not allow for their dream to come true? Why would Michael tell them that he is looking for dancers to perform in front of live audiences with knowing that it wasn't going to happen? I think that would be a little cruel, unless the dancers were in on it and were doing some pretty incredible acting in the first scenes of This Is It. And although the issue with the dancers is my main complaint about this point of view that you have, the same goes for Kenny Ortega, the background singers, and especially the costume designers. In the This Is It credits, you see that Zaldi is creating a spectacular outfit for Michael by HAND. Michael put him to work on this knowing it was never going to happen - that just doesn't sound like something Michael would do. But, as I said before, every person involved in This Is It could be in on it, but it's unlikely in my opinion.

I get what you are saying, that it would be cruel and un-Michael. But then again IWUB, the same similar argument could be said about the millions upon millions upon millions of devestated fans when MJ "died" on 25.06.09 - which we know he didnt. My point being that to get what needed to be done, done, there had to be some collateral. MJ can't protect and ensure everyones feelings and emotions aren't hurt, otherwise DH would simply not be possible. Same with TII - They were playing a role. They may want to dance with MJ, but then again so does every other good dancer on the planet. And the reality is, its just not going to happen. However to be commissioned / paid for your role as a dancer along side MJ in the filming of TII is just as good if not better, because its not merely a concert, they are privledged to be involved in a historical never done before (to this scale) event for their dancing / music idol.

and as bec said - (not verbatim) cheesy cheesy interviews. staged for sure.


but in the end, i get that we will probably just end up agreeing to disagree on this one  :icon_lol:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 07:34:36 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Online ~Souza~

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Shall we get back on topic and discuss this all in the appropriate threads so that newbies can actually find the info they are looking for?

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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it kinda evolved from MJ being in debt, to MJ being in debt and danger and that HD was brought in place for damage control (whch i dont believe) we were just theorising and we've drifted from the article, and it bought about interesting conversations. however i'm sorry we digressed, it wasnt deliberate.

if anyone cares to continue discussion, i suppose we can in 'off topic' but if momentum is lost and the moment is past, thats cool.


 

People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Online ~Souza~

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it kinda evolved from MJ being in debt, to MJ being in debt and danger and that HD was brought in place for damage control (whch i dont believe) we were just theorising and we've drifted from the article, and it bought about interesting conversations. however i'm sorry we digressed, it wasnt deliberate.

if anyone cares to continue discussion, i suppose we can in 'off topic' but if momentum is lost and the moment is past, thats cool.

No, not in off topic, just a new thread. It IS an important discussion, now buried in a TMZ article which makes it hard to find again later, or for new people searching for information.

Offline Shamone Jackson

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Well this finally confirms that Michael is worth more dead than alive, well done Michael you are a clever man.

but if a BAM makes sales / the product of MJ sky rocket thru the roof even further, then that might turn this phrase on its head

michael is worth more alive than a legend is when he is dead.... or such....


LOL...

oooh, I like that.  May I quote you in the future?  "Michael Jackson is worth more alive than dead"   :michael-jackson:

 

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