Possible that Michael may have been his own interpretation of a clown?

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Offline bugsy

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I found a webpage about Ministry clowns and the more I read the more I thought of Michael.

Clown Ministry Theology

I will paste only where I saw Michael Jackson in what is written and put my thoughts...

Quote
3.  A historic clown idea was based on the idea that "the most powerful person in the world is the one who can give away power."  God did this when God entered into human flesh.  Hebrews 12:2  Jesus calls on us to be servants.  The cross, which was a symbol of suffering and death, now is seen as a symbol of victory and life.  In clowning, you give away your power in words and action to become a "fool for Christ's sake" (I Corinthians 4:10).
6.  God works through the principles of comedy.  In comedy there is a "bringing down" of someone and, through a non-heroic means, the person is lifted up higher and better than before....

We are called to be "fools for Christ's sake," to be weak so that others can be strong.  What an honor and privilege that calling is! (pp. 14-15)


I was thinking about the things he has set in motion through his career, the Masks, the wheel chair and the other little things he did that caused him to be laughed at and many people saw him as less than remarkable, thus elevating their own sense of 'greatness' with in themselves...



The makeup, sometimes he looked so white and there was always alot of focus on his nose all the time, don't clowns make a big thing out of wearing a red nose that often squeaks?

Is this the reason for it to be called a circus? he refered to his own concerts as a circus, I think in the history tour...

From about 5:30 if it doesn't take you to that time already...  the address is here which should take you directly to the circus part of his speach  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5efXJyBHF2g#t=331s

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5efXJyBHF2g#t=331s[/youtube]

Just a thought, it does make sense to me, I'm not sure if it will to anyone else...

I apologise if this has been brought up before, I tried checking but I seriously can not get the search to bring up anything relevent of similar to what I want to talk about.

Off to bed I think,  it's 2:10am..Let me know what you guys think...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:29:04 PM by leilani81 »
"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline MJonmind

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Very good thinking Leilani81!
There's lots on MJ as a clown.  I like to explore all connections, no matter how silly they seem. For they may yield something of profound significance, not understood clearly generally.

And this is quite a negative twist but in a deck of cards, Jesus is considered the Joker, the fool.
CARDS - THE DEVIL'S BIBLE

Offline Chicana

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I found a webpage about Ministry clowns and the more I read the more I thought of Michael.

Clown Ministry Theology

I will paste only where I saw Michael Jackson in what is written and put my thoughts...

Quote
3.  A historic clown idea was based on the idea that "the most powerful person in the world is the one who can give away power."  God did this when God entered into human flesh.  Hebrews 12:2  Jesus calls on us to be servants.  The cross, which was a symbol of suffering and death, now is seen as a symbol of victory and life.  In clowning, you give away your power in words and action to become a "fool for Christ's sake" (I Corinthians 4:10).
6.  God works through the principles of comedy.  In comedy there is a "bringing down" of someone and, through a non-heroic means, the person is lifted up higher and better than before....

We are called to be "fools for Christ's sake," to be weak so that others can be strong.  What an honor and privilege that calling is! (pp. 14-15)


I was thinking about the things he has set in motion through his career, the Masks, the wheel chair and the other little things he did that caused him to be laughed at and many people saw him as less than remarkable, thus elevating their own sense of 'greatness' with in themselves...



The makeup, sometimes he looked so white and there was always alot of focus on his nose all the time, don't clowns make a big thing out of wearing a red nose that often squeaks?

Is this the reason for it to be called a circus? he refered to his own concerts as a circus, I think in the history tour...

From about 5:30 if it doesn't take you to that time already...  the address is here which should take you directly to the circus part of his speach  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5efXJyBHF2g#t=331s

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5efXJyBHF2g#t=331s[/youtube]

Just a thought, it does make sense to me, I'm not sure if it will to anyone else...

I apologise if this has been brought up before, I tried checking but I seriously can not get the search to bring up anything relevent of similar to what I want to talk about.

Off to bed I think,  it's 2:10am..Let me know what you guys think...

omg this was too amusing (the video i mean). those fans are crazy!CARAAAZZAY!!! :LolLolLolLol: :thjajaja121:

Offline marumjj

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leilani81! I really like your post, and seeing Michael again onstage giving herself completely, having fun with people, emotional moments ... other sexy ... clown that no? in the best sense of the word. Michael developing all or almost all aspects of entertainment, thanks to your inner child and worried that he could never hide, always ready to play his beloved Peter Pan Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the videos I've seen a thousand times and a thousand other see again. You made me mourn, but joy, because once again confirmed that Michael Jackson is a gift from God.

                                :bearhug:

Offline Shamone Jackson

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Very good theory.  We all know he's been joking around since he was a kid.  I'm glad you posted it.  :th_bravo:

Offline bec

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Yes, absolutely. I believe his whole public persona was the strategic act of a showman giving his audience not only what they want but also what they need. I like the way you presented it, Leilani. Great thought process.
Are you entertained?

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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agree. its all about showmanship. and it kinda all started around bad era. it interests me because he wanted to top thriller. the world vilified him for never topping thriller. but if the past 25 years was all a clown act - and we (general public) believed the show (re: everything amazing and weird) then really, he *did* top thriller, because we bought into the show / clown act for 25 years, which included a historical death hoax! THAT (IMHO) is topping thriller!

frikken genius!!!

i wonder if bad 25 / conciding with a bam will bring some of the "illusions" "Clown acts"  to light so that the public "get" it - just like after a crazy movie, some people still need an explanation on how it happened and all the twists in the plot explained....



@ bec, the first paragraph of this post, makes me think of the post of yours in the other thread, re: not Thriller II bad Bad II...


People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Adi

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agree. its all about showmanship. and it kinda all started around bad era. it interests me because he wanted to top thriller. the world vilified him for never topping thriller. but if the past 25 years was all a clown act - and we (general public) believed the show (re: everything amazing and weird) then really, he *did* top thriller, because we bought into the show / clown act for 25 years, which included a historical death hoax! THAT (IMHO) is topping thriller!

frikken genius!!!

i wonder if bad 25 / conciding with a bam will bring some of the "illusions" "Clown acts"  to light so that the public "get" it - just like after a crazy movie, some people still need an explanation on how it happened and all the twists in the plot explained....



@ bec, the first paragraph of this post, makes me think of the post of yours in the other thread, re: not Thriller II bad Bad II...

Interesting post leilani81.

Kind of reminds me of the Truman Show......except Truman didn't know his whole life was being broadcast around the world for everyone to watch.

Also - remember the song by Omer Bhatti  "Life is a Movie"

...there's the line in it "sit back and watch me do me" at 0:34 secs

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHpK5lk5C0M[/youtube]
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 10:32:34 PM by Adi »

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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truman reversed. the audience, us, dont know where reality ends fiction begins. i love this idea. weather it's true or not is another thing. but it always intrigues me to think that we are in a reverse truman situation, commencing at bad era.

People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Adi

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truman reversed. the audience, us, dont know where reality ends fiction begins. i love this idea. weather it's true or not is another thing. but it always intrigues me to think that we are in a reverse truman situation, commencing at bad era.

Yes! Truman reversed  :icon_cool:

Offline bugsy

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I love how he sits and watches the fans for a little time while he gets his breath back and cools down... I think that's what's his doing now :P

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=i_TFFy0BWSs#t=125s[/youtube]


I love the parts this person has picked, it  captures the anticipation of the audience, the way he takes his time to come back in and the crowd waits with excitement, exactly what we're doing :Michael_Jackson_smiley_by_red

edit: I never seen the truman show....I think I'll have to hire it so I can understand the reference to it? what's it about? Hmm might youtube it

edit2: Omg! How have I not seen that movie! Jim Carey is one of my favorite actors!

« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 11:19:09 PM by leilani81 »
"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline Adi

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@leilani - do yourself a favour and hire it....it's a wonderful movie and I think there are alot of hoax parallels in it......it's one of my favourite movies.

Offline bugsy

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Wanted to put this post seperate.

with the showmanship though he has taken off the mask of the showman on many occassions, especially the more recent years, he wore hardly any make or at least subtle makeup when he wanted to speak about things that concerned him greatly like the speaches about love, the speaches about about the industry and the catelogues.. about the current world situation, a "ministry clown" should not be overly silly or too serious and so its possible maybe that he took off his showman mask s he could address the more serious stuff. he was free of makeup in the "this is it" movie, he was free of make up in the 2005 trial. Bashir interview he wore a lot of make up especially when he seemed to be portraying himself in a way that people could 'belittle' him for example when Gavin was on screen he looked different to the other times and at the end and then at other times very little.

i might go through all interviews and times where he has very little makeup on and filter out the excessive makeup and mask times to see what comes out of it. There might be nothing in it but gives me something to do while there is nothing much to do ;)
"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline bec

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In this way, MJ really DID have 6 months to live as that tabloid called it. MJ the long running character, that is.
Are you entertained?

Offline bugsy

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@leilani - do yourself a favour and hire it....it's a wonderful movie and I think there are alot of hoax parallels in it......it's one of my favourite movies.

I'll be watching it soon :) My mother is a movie mad person and owns so many of them, so I called her and fortunately she has that movie so I'll be watching it today sometime, the moment I get my hands on it :D I love Jim Carey and from the youtube clips it looks really good! I just can't believe I have never watched it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_film

Hmmm.... "The life and death of the king of pop" keeps coming to me as a title of a movie...capturing real life reactions of the world as it learns of the death of the superstar on June 25th 2009 and the years following the death, capturing all angles of real people... The conspiracies, the mourning, the media. A biopic where the cast is real people, in the real world.

I have thought about it for several weeks but after watching the shortened 9 clips of Truman and then reading about the movie, kind of thing you guys who talked of it being reversed seems rather possible, completely understand a lot of posts now from here :p sorry the penny just dropped, I guess the truman show is a rather big peice of the puzzle I was missing :P
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 12:32:48 AM by leilani81 »
"One of the definitions of sanity is the ability to tell real from unreal. Soon we'll need a new definition.
"Alvin Toffler

Offline MJonmind

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Keep in mind that the writer/director of The Truman Show, said he had Michael Jackson in mind, which is already a direct connection.  We owned the video and we watched it lots of times--love it!

Back to what you were saying about the roles of a clown. In a rodeo the clowns are also about protecting the riders from dangers of the horses or bulls. They defuse the dangers. Is MJ defusing dangers with his willingness to be that one who makes people smile?

I really like what you said here,
Quote
Quote
3.  A historic clown idea was based on the idea that "the most powerful person in the world is the one who can give away power."  God did this when God entered into human flesh.  Hebrews 12:2  Jesus calls on us to be servants.  The cross, which was a symbol of suffering and death, now is seen as a symbol of victory and life.  In clowning, you give away your power in words and action to become a "fool for Christ's sake" (I Corinthians 4:10).
6.  God works through the principles of comedy.  In comedy there is a "bringing down" of someone and, through a non-heroic means, the person is lifted up higher and better than before....

We are called to be "fools for Christ's sake," to be weak so that others can be strong.  What an honor and privilege that calling is! (pp. 14-15)

I was thinking about the things he has set in motion through his career, the Masks, the wheel chair and the other little things he did that caused him to be laughed at and many people saw him as less than remarkable, thus elevating their own sense of 'greatness' with in themselves...

The makeup, sometimes he looked so white and there was always alot of focus on his nose all the time, don't clowns make a big thing out of wearing a red nose that often squeaks?

Is this the reason for it to be called a circus? he refered to his own concerts as a circus, I think in the history tour...

This is a form of sacrificing oneself for the good of others--deep spiritual truths here!

The effect on the general population are either of two things:
1. Some will arrogantly laugh, hate, jeer, ridicule and thus make themselves feel superior and above him.
2. Some will smile, even cry with joy at the way he gives of himself in silliness, gentleness, generosity, and realize how truly rare and great he is. How blessed they are to have him.

Here's some pics:

You just have to click on images of Michael Jackson clown, to get hundreds of images, some MJ is clowning on purpose and others are people trying to laugh at him in a hurtful way.

http://www.google.ca/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&q=michael+jackson+clown&oq=michael+jackson+clown&gs_l=img.3..0.4013.7683.0.8024.21.13.0.8.8.0.100.1122.11j2.13.0...0.0...1ac.ReXUkeqohaA&biw=1527&bih=850&sei=okoCUMu6LojarAGYvLGxDA

Simpa, don't you have a collage of MJ clown pics?

I remember chuckling myself over this one before I knew better, years ago.



The very fact that MJ put tape on his face, and rode in a wheelchair when healthy, shows he almost goaded the public on to think some of the common misconceptions about him.

He literally allowed himself to be the butt of jokes around the world for decades--all for a greater purpose. This is namely  bringing love back into the world, becoming childlike, and leading by example.  I don't want to get into whether the 2005 trial was real or not, but come on, when he sat there holding Gavin's hand and talked about sharing the bed, he knew what he was doing--literally laying his life/reputation down to be 'crucified' and trampled, which is what happened.  He has been the world's clown in the most truest most honorable loving way possible. This act may potentially not only protect us from the danger/evil, but actually defeat the enemy in the big picture. A tactic with the enemy --appear weak, when really he is very strong.


Also Front said there had been clowns at the Murray trial, in keeping with MJ=Murray, and that the hoax is like a circus.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 01:26:09 AM by MJonmind »

Offline Josiec84

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Michael Jackson loved reading Marvel comics and even Stan Lee said he wanted to be like Spiderman. LOL  :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121:

A clue???
My whole family thinks I'm crazy for believing that Michael Jackson faked his death  v__v


L.O.V.E and respect to all

Offline MaryK

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truman reversed. the audience, us, dont know where reality ends fiction begins. i love this idea. weather it's true or not is another thing. but it always intrigues me to think that we are in a reverse truman situation, commencing at bad era.

Yes! Truman reversed  :icon_cool:

Absolutely.
I truly believe that THIS is IT  :icon_e_wink:
The Tru(e)man Show indeed   :smiley_abuv:
You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



Offline Adi

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Michael Jackson loved reading Marvel comics and even Stan Lee said he wanted to be like Spiderman. LOL  :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121:

A clue???

I don't get what you mean. What would it be a clue to?