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Hello Curls - As I'm at work I can only make a quick reply w/o quotes.  But in answer to your question, I think that the clues Michael left were not meant for everyone and I believe he knew that not everyone would follow them or pay any attention to them or us for pointing them out, dismissing everything happening right in front of their eyes.  And judging from the millions who think we are insane, he was obviously right. 

There were things that happened prior to the hoax but after the 0-2 announcement that made me very suspicious and afraid for him.  When June 25, 2009 came I immediately thought someone had made good on their threats to kill him.  However, the clues, that only few could see showed me otherwise.  Thatis when I felt that he had outsmarted them and gotten away.
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

*

bec

Hey hes, how do you suppose that he planned this hoax for over 20 years and then just so happened to be threatened with his life so badly at exactly the right time for him to "disappear" just as he planned anyway? Convenient timing?

Also, I don't think Liberian Girl pics and references all over the memorial/burial are very subtle clues. That's pretty in-your-face if you know anything at all about MJ. I wouldn't drop that kind of blatant hint if my life were truly in danger, especially not repeatedly. There are no fun n games in the scenario you suggest and this hoax and it's clues are FULL of fun n games.

Also, if your life is in danger, who do you call... your Rabbi? Or the FBI? Come on.
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Are you entertained?

@bec, I respect yours and other opinions because no one is 100%.  However, in my eyes, there were mitigating circumstances that could (and I stess could as I always have) have caused him to have to bring the full hoax into active mode a bit sooner than originally anticipated.  Some of the things that we see as blatant and in the face clues are not thought to be by people who don't believe in the hoax.  And as I stressed, those signs I believe were deliberate for people who knew in advance because Michael had disclosed and to people with an open mind and an understanding about Michael Jackson beyond the entertainer who would see the signs for what they were/are.  To my knowledge, no one who believes that Michael died sees the things that we see, or if they see them they dismiss them as being irrelevant.  So for those reasons, I don't see a big threat from people discovering anything. 

I believe that Michael planned to escape so to speak for many years.  I just think that near June 25 some things happened unforeseen that made his exiting become more serious.  Monsters come out of nowhere sometimes.
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

*

IWantYouBack

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@ IWantYouBack, i just picked up on this comment, i missed reading it before.

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Michael always said that no matter what he didn't want to be performing "Billie Jean" when he was 50 and that he just wanted to have a happy, worry-free life with his children. Why all of a sudden the change of heart? I personally believe that he wanted to do This Is It to pay off his debt, but then his life was threatened and had to do this hoax that was on the back-burner for a while. This is just my opinion though. Not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying I'm right.


i am curious about your opinion. so do you believe that MJ intended to do TII concerts? (i personally believe there was no intention of ever doing the concerts, but i could be wrong and am happy to consider the alternative) i believe that the DVD was never concert rehersal recording, even though many people (doubles, singers, dancers, audo technicians etc, were employed to 'work' on such a project. i tend to think these people arent in on the hoax (most of them anyways) and that they thought they were participating in concert rehersal, when in fact they were really just filming TII. i believe that it was all for the DVD, not for a concert. again, JMHO i could be completely wrong. do you also think that the hoax was a fall back plan because of dollars or endangerment? i tend to think that DH is the master plan and has been since bad era, with a pointed start date, (being 25.06.09) with lots of preparation going into it years in advance. i personally doubt that DH was a plan there on the side, should he need to use it. also if he used DH because of being in danger, then why predict a BAM (TII, songs, family whispers, back, front, TS, etc) dunno, i strongly believe this. could be wrong and am happy to consider other alternatives, but right now i just don't see it being a fall back / escape plan.

i know this post is kinda off topic. and there are other threads dedicated to this, which i have read. but while we are at it quickly, does anyone else have an opinion on this? IWantYouBack, keen to hear your thoughts futher on this.

Hello! Thank you very much for your reply and your interest in my opinion, I really appreciate it. My answer to your question regarding This Is It is yes and no. I think in the very early stages, probably before Michael even chose the name for tour, he was definitely intending to do a series of concerts. I think Michael had a number of reasons to do these concerts, some reasons being more important than others. Michael said in so many interviews that he did NOT want to perform "Billie Jean" when he was 50 years old and that he just wanted to have a worry-free life with this children. This why I believe Michael's sudden change of heart was so odd. I think the main reason why Michael was intending to do a series of concerts was because he was in massive debt and somehow had to come up with the money and fast. But, I think the more Michael thought about doing the concerts, he thought of many other positive reasons to do the concert series. For example, while paying off his massive debt, he could show his children what kind of artist he was, and also reclaim the title of being the world's number one artist. Because even though Michael was and will always be the King of Pop, he wasn't on top of the current music industry in 2009, so I think that's another reason, while a very small reason, he wanted to do the series. I truly think the main reason was paying off his debt. So, I think in the early stages, Michael was definitely going to do the concerts. However, near the rehearsal period of This Is It, I think something happened. I truly believe Michael Jackson was threatened by someone and had to find another way to get the money he needed to pay off his debt, while still showing his children what he could do, and still reclaiming the title as the world's number one artist. And, I think the safest way for him to do this was a movie. So, I think once the dancers were chosen and Michael started "rehearsing", it was definitely a movie. But I do think the dancers and the rest of the This Is It crew are in on the hoax. In fact, Michael even admitted to Dieter that he was being threatened in those voice mails he left, remember? He said something along the lines of "I'm afraid for my life and for my children, we're being stalked, I want to be in a different environment". Even though those voice mails were left before This Is It, I still think Michael was being threatened by the time the world knew about Michael's This Is It tour.

So, in a nutshell: In the early stages of This Is It, Michael was intending to do the series. In the later stages, it was definitely intended to be a movie because Michael was threatened and could not chance doing a live performance because he could have been assassinated.


Also, I remember reading someone's post asking why we are here looking for clues if Michael was threatened and did this quickly. I will give my opinion on that as well in case anyone is interested:

I think Michael's life has been threatened many times since the BAD era when he began releasing more political songs (For example, Man In The Mirror, Heal The World, Earth Song, etc). So, since Michael's life was threatened already in the earlier years of his solo career, I think he has had this hoax planned and prepared for a long time just in case the death threats ever got very serious. I think the death threats got even more serious during and after his trial, so I think he was prepared to launch this hoax any day after his trial. Then, during This Is It rehearsals, I think the death threats got SO bad, he decided to put the hoax into action. Now, knowing Michael, no matter what the situation may be, he would want his fans knowing he's okay whether he was threatened or manipulating the media. And so, I think when he planned this hoax and put it on the back-burner in the BAD era, he made sure he had potential "clues" lined up for us.

As for the BAM, I personally have never really believed in the BAM. Since I believe he was still being threatened during This Is It rehearsals, I'm not quite sure if he will BAM because then he is back to square 1 being threatened again. I think he will only BAM if the coast is clear and all of his enemies are either locked up or out of contact with him so then they can't reach him or his family.

But again, just my personal opinion and view on the hoax. Not saying I'm right. :)
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Please watch my live performance of "Earth Song" and tell me what you think? :)

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---------------

Jenn C

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emulik

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If Michael wasn’t in debt then what is the estate clearing up for 3 years?

...

This is what I meant when I said that there must be some sort of strategy involved to doing it this way.  Legal reasons.  Like Michael's way of continuing to do business after "death" or funding the hoax and those involved or something.


Another way to keep talking about him.... :ghsdf: .....the film continues.... :icon_bounce: :icon_bounce: :michael-jackson: :icon_e_wink:
exactly Blankie! lots of Michael related news in late time, it is good, it keeps people focused on him.
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"Please do not forget who the driver is! ...:)

MJ will get us home safely! :)

So, then the estate is just rambling and telling lies about clearing up debt?  Is this the theory? If so then I am thoroughly confused about all the kudos here for the estate at every milestone they report.
Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 04:45:24 PM by hesouttamylife
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

@ IWantYouBack and HesOuttaMyLife.

thanks for your replies. i am at work right now and being sneaky on the computer forum (addicted much?) so cant read your replies thoroughly, but wanted to acknowledge your lengthy replies. when i get home tonight will read and reply. i am interested in reading your reasoning.

 :smiley_abuv:
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People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

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Hey hes, how do you suppose that he planned this hoax for over 20 years and then just so happened to be threatened with his life so badly at exactly the right time for him to "disappear" just as he planned anyway? Convenient timing?

Also, I don't think Liberian Girl pics and references all over the memorial/burial are very subtle clues. That's pretty in-your-face if you know anything at all about MJ. I wouldn't drop that kind of blatant hint if my life were truly in danger, especially not repeatedly. There are no fun n games in the scenario you suggest and this hoax and it's clues are FULL of fun n games.

Also, if your life is in danger, who do you call... your Rabbi? Or the FBI? Come on.

Hi Bec, now that I’m home I can go into a little more detail and i can QUOTE  :woohoo2:  In answer directly to this question that I highlighted in red above, it’s Michael.  He doesn’t do the conventional and he apparently is more spiritually than politically correct.  I can honestly see him calling his advisor over law enforcement at least initially to get his or her input.  Bsides, I don’t really think that Michael trusts the establishment after all he’s been through and I can understand that.

Let me clarify better what I mean when I say his life was in danger.  When Michael was approached to do the 0-2 Arena concerts, I do believe that he intended to do the 10 shows.  I really do.  But I also think that he had a change of heart when they kept upping his commitment until it reached 50.  Somewhere I read that he agreed finally to 31.  If he did, I don’t think he did so cheerfully.  However, in view of him having spoken on more than one occasion of someone or a few someones out to harm him, something occurred to me during this time that made me feel uneasy.  During the time of all this planning for him to take up residence in London and do all these shows with millions of people in attendance, there was a pandemic outbreak of influenza being reported in London.  They were in the middle of taking precautions to keep people away from crowded places where the germs could easily be carried and Michael whose immune system was already compromised, fit right smack in the middle of those more susceptible to acquiring this virus.  Then the matter of the insurance policies with the clause specific to “if he dies during the contract” blah, blah, blah.  Well hell, if it were me my first thought would be then why are you insisting that I go to live right in the heart of an outbreak of a pandemic that is relevant as we speak, when every one else is preparing to stay away' and not only are you adding shows but insuring me to the max should I “die” in the process?  :icon_e_confused:  I would wonder now, is this how you plan to get rid of me?  Why are we not talking cancellation until further notice like after this thing or the threat of it has subsided? 

The first case of the Avian flu in London was reported on April 30 2009.  By June 5, there were over 100 confirmed cases and on June 11 WHO signaled that the first pandemic of the 21st century was underway.  People were being advised to keep children home from school and for others who were most vulnerable to stay away from large gatherings.  large gatherings  :WTF:  How much larger a gathering could there be than a Michael Jackson concert times 50?   
One of the key mechanisms of communication used in London was the NHS London Noon Brief. This was first issued at 12.00 noon on 25 April 2009 as a simple, black and white Word document, to local NHS flu leads.  Over the following weeks and months it evolved into a structured daily command and control document where new information and actions were clearly identified and the audience swelled to over 700 people across the NHS in London, partner organisations and wider stakeholders.  Yet there was no slowing down or altering of any plans for Michael to go there with his children and live and breathe for months  :icon_evil: 

No one can convince me that the event planners didn’t know the danger associated with having Michael go to London during this crisis.  And from what we’ve been told, some were mean to him and strong arming him which further exacerbates someone’s fear.  Well mine anyway. There was mention that the footage used in This Is It was footage from rehearsals over the 3 days prior to June 25th.  I have always believed that the practice held at the Staples Center on June 22nd was the big one; the one attended by security and other unidentified onlookers.  This was reported by one of the This Is It dancers.  AEG apparently was not willing to lose their money and would not release Michael from his commitment regardless of the threat that loomed in London.  So he was packed I’ve heard and ready to roll.  Well he rolled all right,  :smiley-vault-misc-150: and the rest is History - past, present, and future.


I don’t have any proof of what or how Michael thought or felt.  I’m basing all of this on what seems to me the natural thought process if it were me and I had felt threatened.  Would I try to get out of it by any means necessary.  Damn right I would.  Don’t know if I’d have enough clout or money to fake my death but I know I could fake crazy  :icon_lol: and they would be taking me out in a strait jacket.

I believe that not only was Michael concerned about his own health and well being, but also all those people, his beloved fans who would put themselves and their lives at risk just to see him.  I don’t see him allowing that to happen.  I believe that once this became a known pandemic, he decided to make his This Is It 0-2 Arena practice into This Is It the world renowned critically acclaimed masterpiece that it turned out to be.  No one had to risk life or well being to see it.  He gave it to us as a gift.  So the hoax began a little early.  I think... :icon_geek:

Now you can call me crazy, delusional, or what ever fits  :LolLolLolLol:  it’s okay.  I’ve been called worse since I became a hoax investigator for this Michael Jackson Death Hoax.  I’ve put on my rhinoceros skin and I can take it. So bring it on  :michael_jackson-1135:
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

*

MaryKTopic starter

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Hey hes, how do you suppose that he planned this hoax for over 20 years and then just so happened to be threatened with his life so badly at exactly the right time for him to "disappear" just as he planned anyway? Convenient timing?

Also, I don't think Liberian Girl pics and references all over the memorial/burial are very subtle clues. That's pretty in-your-face if you know anything at all about MJ. I wouldn't drop that kind of blatant hint if my life were truly in danger, especially not repeatedly. There are no fun n games in the scenario you suggest and this hoax and it's clues are FULL of fun n games.

Also, if your life is in danger, who do you call... your Rabbi? Or the FBI? Come on.

Hi Bec, now that I’m home I can go into a little more detail and i can QUOTE  :woohoo2:  In answer directly to this question that I highlighted in red above, it’s Michael.  He doesn’t do the conventional and he apparently is more spiritually than politically correct.  I can honestly see him calling his advisor over law enforcement at least initially to get his or her input.  Bsides, I don’t really think that Michael trusts the establishment after all he’s been through and I can understand that.

Let me clarify better what I mean when I say his life was in danger.  When Michael was approached to do the 0-2 Arena concerts, I do believe that he intended to do the 10 shows.  I really do.  But I also think that he had a change of heart when they kept upping his commitment until it reached 50.  Somewhere I read that he agreed finally to 31.  If he did, I don’t think he did so cheerfully.  However, in view of him having spoken on more than one occasion of someone or a few someones out to harm him, something occurred to me during this time that made me feel uneasy.  During the time of all this planning for him to take up residence in London and do all these shows with millions of people in attendance, there was a pandemic outbreak of influenza being reported in London.  They were in the middle of taking precautions to keep people away from crowded places where the germs could easily be carried and Michael whose immune system was already compromised, fit right smack in the middle of those more susceptible to acquiring this virus.  Then the matter of the insurance policies with the clause specific to “if he dies during the contract” blah, blah, blah.  Well hell, if it were me my first thought would be then why are you insisting that I go to live right in the heart of an outbreak of a pandemic that is relevant as we speak, when every one else is preparing to stay away' and not only are you adding shows but insuring me to the max should I “die” in the process?  :icon_e_confused:  I would wonder now, is this how you plan to get rid of me?  Why are we not talking cancellation until further notice like after this thing or the threat of it has subsided? 

The first case of the Avian flu in London was reported on April 30 2009.  By June 5, there were over 100 confirmed cases and on June 11 WHO signaled that the first pandemic of the 21st century was underway.  People were being advised to keep children home from school and for others who were most vulnerable to stay away from large gatherings.  large gatherings  :WTF:  How much larger a gathering could there be than a Michael Jackson concert times 50?   
One of the key mechanisms of communication used in London was the NHS London Noon Brief. This was first issued at 12.00 noon on 25 April 2009 as a simple, black and white Word document, to local NHS flu leads.  Over the following weeks and months it evolved into a structured daily command and control document where new information and actions were clearly identified and the audience swelled to over 700 people across the NHS in London, partner organisations and wider stakeholders.  Yet there was no slowing down or altering of any plans for Michael to go there with his children and live and breathe for months  :icon_evil: 

No one can convince me that the event planners didn’t know the danger associated with having Michael go to London during this crisis.  And from what we’ve been told, some were mean to him and strong arming him which further exacerbates someone’s fear.  Well mine anyway. There was mention that the footage used in This Is It was footage from rehearsals over the 3 days prior to June 25th.  I have always believed that the practice held at the Staples Center on June 22nd was the big one; the one attended by security and other unidentified onlookers.  This was reported by one of the This Is It dancers.  AEG apparently was not willing to lose their money and would not release Michael from his commitment regardless of the threat that loomed in London.  So he was packed I’ve heard and ready to roll.  Well he rolled all right,  :smiley-vault-misc-150: and the rest is History - past, present, and future.


I don’t have any proof of what or how Michael thought or felt.  I’m basing all of this on what seems to me the natural thought process if it were me and I had felt threatened.  Would I try to get out of it by any means necessary.  Damn right I would.  Don’t know if I’d have enough clout or money to fake my death but I know I could fake crazy  :icon_lol: and they would be taking me out in a strait jacket.

I believe that not only was Michael concerned about his own health and well being, but also all those people, his beloved fans who would put themselves and their lives at risk just to see him.  I don’t see him allowing that to happen.  I believe that once this became a known pandemic, he decided to make his This Is It 0-2 Arena practice into This Is It the world renowned critically acclaimed masterpiece that it turned out to be.  No one had to risk life or well being to see it.  He gave it to us as a gift.  So the hoax began a little early.  I think... :icon_geek:

Now you can call me crazy, delusional, or what ever fits  :LolLolLolLol:  it’s okay.  I’ve been called worse since I became a hoax investigator for this Michael Jackson Death Hoax.  I’ve put on my rhinoceros skin and I can take it. So bring it on  :michael_jackson-1135:

Thank you very much for elaborating on this!

I was wondering what you were aiming at, what your point was.

Now I get it. Sounds coherent in a way but:

May I ask how numerology fits into that concept in your opinion?
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You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



Now Mary K…. you know that  don’t do numbers with any precision.  Remember, I was waiting for the numerology for dummies class someone was suppose to start on here  :LolLolLolLol:  I’m still waiting  :smiley-vault-misc-150: :smiley-vault-misc-150:
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Initially Mary K, I thought that Michael had arranged to warn the Londoners not to take the vaccines.  But the more I read up on what was going on in London during that time and how they were preparing, that theory changed.   I just don’t think Michael was willing to risk his life, his family, his friends, or his fans to satisfy his concert promoters and/or their greed.
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

*

GINAFELICIA

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Hi TMZ. Are you still watching us? 'Cause I see the 7-s in this article - they are for us, right?

If Mike was really in debt - I think it is hardly possible to generate so much income in 4 years to clear 500 millions. I don't see how....I think there are many lies when it comes to this supposed debts clearing.
JMO.

Oh...and hi TMZ.
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curls

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Hello Curls - As I'm at work I can only make a quick reply w/o quotes.  But in answer to your question, I think that the clues Michael left were not meant for everyone and I believe he knew that not everyone would follow them or pay any attention to them or us for pointing them out, dismissing everything happening right in front of their eyes.  And judging from the millions who think we are insane, he was obviously right. 

There were things that happened prior to the hoax but after the 0-2 announcement that made me very suspicious and afraid for him.  When June 25, 2009 came I immediately thought someone had made good on their threats to kill him.  However, the clues, that only few could see showed me otherwise.  Thatis when I felt that he had outsmarted them and gotten away.

@ hesouttamylife, thanks for getting back to me.  @ IWantYouBack as well: I'm not convinced that MJ, or we, could know that only well-intentioned people, like us, would see his clues?  Also, the meticulous planning over many, many years that is evident in all we have discovered shows me June 25th wasn't a rushed, or hastily changed or cobbled together excuse for a plan. This was, and continues to be, precise. That's why I don't share your belief, but you know I have no problem with you guys having it!  Just different viewpoints.  :bearhug:

Hesouttamylife, you also said: "So, then the estate is just rambling and telling lies about clearing up debt?  Is this the theory? If so then I am thoroughly confused about all the kudos here for the estate at every milestone they report."
As has already been mentioned, there are many types of debt.  It simply means owing someone money. It doesn't have to mean you don't have two pennies to rub together (which is the impression the media have tried to give about MJ). I don't pretend to understand the workings of MJ's 'estate', but can certainly see a scenario whereby all these millions that have apparently been generated since his 'death', are simply paying off legitimate debts, so that when he comes back he will owe nothing to no-one.

EDIT: Good to see you back Gina, hope you're feeling refreshed and batteries recharged!
Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 01:48:24 AM by curls
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~Souza~

I thought it was reported a while ago that the estate made close to a billion???

Welcome back Gina.
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MJonmind

Hes, thanks for the reminder about the flue fears going on in 2009. I just feel it was just one of many synchronizing details going on at the same time as MJ's 'death'.


Iwantyouback
What about the fact that the Pepsi accident (start of so-called drug addiction) was to the day, half-way between MJ’s birth and ‘death’, 2982 days on each side of it, which equals  21 = 777.

You said you don't believe in a come-back or BAM.
Quote
Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called “The Pledge”. The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man. He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course… it probably isn’t. The second act is called “The Turn”. The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you’re looking for the secret… but you won’t find it, because of course you’re not really looking. You don’t really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn’t clap yet. Because making something disappear isn’t enough; you have to bring it back. That’s why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part called “The Prestige.”   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 04:24:48 AM by MJonmind
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