Michael Jackson Estate Clears MJ's Massive Debt ... Almost

[Chicana]

sorry chicana, i disagree. completely.

a) i dont think he was in the debt that everyone thought he was in.

b) i disagee that 'people controlled his life' as he is incredibly powerful and calls the shots. Michael Jackson knows how to be Michael Jackson!

c) regarding this:

and as far as the "drug addiction" comment, i'm talking about what i've seen on different videos. people have said that he had a drug addiction problem, how he's used different aliases to get drugs.

i personally don't put a lot of weight to what is written about MJ and concerning hypertheical drug use. and if and i say IF it were true, then its really NONE of our business.

you're not disagreeing with me,  :icon_arrow: i think you're disagreeing with the people who made these videos. because i'm not the one that posted these videos up. what i've said is strictly based on everything that i've watched. and sure, maybe he wasn't in debt (just maybe), because we don't know what was going on for sure. michael planned his "death" for a reason, you don't just plan a death for no reason at all. there has to be something behind it. there's a video on youtube with a woman who was saying that he was afraid for his life. it was because of some guy that he thinks that was in the italian mafia, mr. tounche or whatever that guy's name is. the tapings might be old, but they seem like they could be a part of the hoax, which is why the audios have been used on those hoax videos. so..why if he was so powerful..why would he say that he was feeling afraid for his life and his children?why think of wanting to get a different bank account? and i'm not the one posting that he was a drug user on videos. others have posted videos of other people that have worked with michael, or have associated with him/ whatever have said that he had a drug addiction problem. so i wouldn't put it past me. doesn't matter if it's none of our business, this are things that people have added into their videos. so i really don't know why you're pointing the finger at me, when i'm just going by what i've observed and heard. they're posting this stuff. if you have a disagreement with anyone, it should be them. i just look at these things and think MAYBE it's true, i never once said that it was true.

maybe you're thinking oh.. well you should research for yourself, but i personally, don't have the time. i watch videos when i have time and i don't have much time to research. i'm working nowadays and most of my time is focused on doing just that now. so if i'm posting something up on here it's usually about something that i've seen on youtube.

[hesouttamylife]

I'm not convinced about the estate managers. I believe they have been clever; in the past and currently... but I believe they have been necessary for what they are able to do; make money for the estate, which lines their pockets. So both MJ's and their interests are currently being served. But that just be a matter of tIME before uselfulness runs out....

I have certainly had my issues with the estate over the years.  But now, I’m a bit at peace with them.  For what they have done, they deserve to be paid handsomely.  It’s the others who used Michael’s trusting nature to get over on him that I have problems with. Some of the need to be sued in court for return of monies received under false pretenses. It has taken me a long time to get here and I hope that I am not seeing things through jaded eyes now.  I am still watching, however; and I only hope that their loyalty to the tasks at hand will not prove to be just another fallacy. 

[blankie]

If Michael wasn’t in debt then what is the estate clearing up for 3 years?

...

This is what I meant when I said that there must be some sort of strategy involved to doing it this way.  Legal reasons.  Like Michael's way of continuing to do business after "death" or funding the hoax and those involved or something.

Another way to keep talking about him.... :ghsdf: .....the film continues.... :icon_bounce: :icon_bounce: :michael-jackson: :icon_e_wink:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

sorry chicana, i disagree. completely.

a) i dont think he was in the debt that everyone thought he was in.

b) i disagee that 'people controlled his life' as he is incredibly powerful and calls the shots. Michael Jackson knows how to be Michael Jackson!

c) regarding this:

and as far as the "drug addiction" comment, i'm talking about what i've seen on different videos. people have said that he had a drug addiction problem, how he's used different aliases to get drugs.

i personally don't put a lot of weight to what is written about MJ and concerning hypertheical drug use. and if and i say IF it were true, then its really NONE of our business.

you're not disagreeing with me,  :icon_arrow: i think you're disagreeing with the people who made these videos. because i'm not the one that posted these videos up.

aware that you didnt 'make' the videos. there are 100's of videos on YT that claim "the truth" when it comes to MJ, even some that are made by believers that are probably incorrect. video makers dont know entire truth. only MJ does.

he said is strictly based on everything that i've watched. and sure, maybe he wasn't in debt (just maybe), because we don't know what was going on for sure. michael planned his "death" for a reason, you don't just plan a death for no reason at all. there has to be something behind it.

money isnt the reason for the hoax.

there's a video on youtube with a woman who was saying that he was afraid for his life. it was because of some guy that he thinks that was in the italian mafia, mr. tounche or whatever that guy's name is. the tapings might be old, but they seem like they could be a part of the hoax, which is why the audios have been used on those hoax videos.

refer to tabloid junkie...

so..why if he was so powerful..why would he say that he was feeling afraid for his life and his children?

possible. it is possible he was afraid for his children. any celebrity of that stature would want to protect their children and ensure their security. but also just remember too, that not everything that comes out of MJs mouth is true. He plays the game too.

also, regarding powerful, have you ever seen some of the people MJ is friends with or has been associated with??

why think of wanting to get a different bank account?

if i had copious amounts of cash i'd be opening up swiss accounts too. many people with loads of $$ do it. also he may have been preparing and organising his fincances pre-death hoax. so that money is accessible after "death"

also as mentioned in the other conversations that are happening on this thread right now, some of his money handlers were dodgy. MJ had to clean it up and get control.

and i'm not the one posting that he was a drug user on videos. others have posted videos of other people that have worked with michael, or have associated with him/ whatever have said that he had a drug addiction problem. so i wouldn't put it past me.

chicana, a lot of people on the net claim to know michael, hell some even claim to BE michael. there are a lot of false claims of truth out there. example, there are videos out there that claim 'proof' that MJ was a pedo! (disgusting i know!  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:)

doesn't matter if it's none of our business, this are things that people have added into their videos. so i really don't know why you're pointing the finger at me, when i'm just going by what i've observed and heard. they're posting this stuff. if you have a disagreement with anyone, it should be them. i just look at these things and think MAYBE it's true, i never once said that it was true.

i PROMISE you that i am not pointing the finger at you, i am encouraging you to be open to the idea that people who make the videos might not know completely what they are talking about. i dont have a disagreement with the people who make the videos as they have a right to their freedom of speech and i dont have a disagrement with you personally. i just believe there is more to the debt thing, i believe he is and was in control, and i dont believe he was a drug addict at time of 'death'

michael was always concerned about his health and body and treated it like a temple, especially as one gets older this becomes extremely important. he has had pain killer addictions in the past, but MJ wasnt the drug addict we read about in the tabs! remember this is a man who wants to live forever.

maybe you're thinking oh.. well you should research for yourself, but i personally, don't have the time. i watch videos when i have time and i don't have much time to research. i'm working nowadays and most of my time is focused on doing just that now. so if i'm posting something up on here it's usually about something that i've seen on youtube.

i understand what you mean about time being a precious commodity, i too am incredibly busy these days. so not reasearching is one thing, and i get it. but believing or accepting information based on what is on YT because its quick and easy is a one way ticket to being fed lies about MJ or anyone else for that matter. YT is an incredibly unreliable source. unfortunately for truth research is key and so is openmindedness.


again not attacking you, dont have issue with you, not disprespecting you or anything like that, its simply how i feel about the statements and opinions in your post which i am responding to with my opinion.

lets get this clear straight up, so there is no negitive emotion inferred to this. this back and forth isnt a fight, argument, or anything negative. its a positive exchange of opinions a mere conversation.

i respect your right to opinion, i just happen to disagree with it.

peace

 :smiley-vault-misc-150:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Healthy Debate

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

If Michael wasn’t in debt then what is the estate clearing up for 3 years?

...

This is what I meant when I said that there must be some sort of strategy involved to doing it this way.  Legal reasons.  Like Michael's way of continuing to do business after "death" or funding the hoax and those involved or something.

completely agree with this.

[MaryK]

If Michael wasn’t in debt then what is the estate clearing up for 3 years?

...

This is what I meant when I said that there must be some sort of strategy involved to doing it this way.  Legal reasons.  Like Michael's way of continuing to do business after "death" or funding the hoax and those involved or something.

completely agree with this.

Oh yes and you know..as they say:

Clever businessmen are always eager to contract debts

[IWantYouBack]

I personally do believe in the debt story. I think being in debt was one of the reasons why Michael planned this hoax. I am a HUGE fan of him and I really look up to him, he is and will always be my inspiration, but I'm not going to fool myself or be biased and say that he was in fantastic shape for the past decade. I honestly don't think he was. Health wise, I think Michael was and still is great, as we can see in This Is It. However, money wise, I think Michael was in a lot of debt and in trouble. We all saw the way Michael spent his money in the horrible "Living With Michael Jackson" documentary with Bashir. BUT, I don't blame the debt on Michael. Michael's financial managers and lawyers should have been looking after him and his money. It's not Michael's fault he got in debt because he has people to tell him whether or not he's in good enough shape to purchase expensive items like the ones in the documentary. And even though Michael likes to hire the best of the best, I don't think the people in Michael's inner circle were there to help him and make sure he's okay. The people around him were money hungry and couldn't have cared less about the state Michael was in financially - as long as they got their salary they were happy. I honestly wish with all of my heart this wasn't the case because Michael cared and still cares about everyone with all of his heart and soul. But what I really wish is that the people in his inner circle were more caring and loving like he is.

I think once the Estate pays the rest of the $25 million, that will open the doors for the big BAM - if there even is a BAM.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Iwantyouback - i do agree on the point that some in the inner circle were up to no good. MJ has spoken many a time about misplaced trust and greed. there were definitely ppl doing underhanded things and there have been for years.

i just dont think MJ was the weak helpless victim all the time. MJ is a control freak. he knows what he is doing and some of his antics are planned. again, only JMHO. i have no proof either way.

having said that, even the most amazing people can make foolish financial decisions. MJ is not immune to that, i know.

[bec]

Debt=wealth when you're in business. I think this is something most of us little people can't really comprehend. I understand the concept, but considering my economic class, the idea still freaks me out even though cognitively I know better.

Consider a mortgage. Buying real estate is generally considered an investment, even though you go into what could be called "massive debt". You figure a person who makes 50K/year being on the hook for 150k seems like quite a bit of debt, especially when after 30 years that 150k will be more like 225K with interest. However, in 30 years, that person can expect to sell that real estate for ~350K netting 125K out of the deal, accumulating wealth.

So you see, debt=wealth.

This is media spin to sell papers. Nothing more.

[IWantYouBack]

Iwantyouback - i do agree on the point that some in the inner circle were up to no good. MJ has spoken many a time about misplaced trust and greed. there were definitely ppl doing underhanded things and there have been for years.

i just dont think MJ was the weak helpless victim all the time. MJ is a control freak. he knows what he is doing and some of his antics are planned. again, only JMHO. i have no proof either way.

having said that, even the most amazing people can make foolish financial decisions. MJ is not immune to that, i know.

Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you here! Don't get me wrong, I don't look at Michael and think that he is a helpless victim all of the time. You're totally right - Michael was a control freak and he called the shots almost all of the time. But I think when it comes to his debt, I think he was a victim in that specific case.

@Bec I do understand what you mean when you say that debt = wealth. But I think that's only in some cases. I was always taught that debt was a bad thing, and if you can't pay it off, you're kind of in trouble. Michael always said that no matter what he didn't want to be performing "Billie Jean" when he was 50 and that he just wanted to have a happy, worry-free life with his children. Why all of a sudden the change of heart? I personally believe that he wanted to do This Is It to pay off his debt, but then his life was threatened and had to do this hoax that was on the back-burner for a while. This is just my opinion though. Not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying I'm right.

[Chicana]

sorry chicana, i disagree. completely.

a) i dont think he was in the debt that everyone thought he was in.

b) i disagee that 'people controlled his life' as he is incredibly powerful and calls the shots. Michael Jackson knows how to be Michael Jackson!

c) regarding this:

and as far as the "drug addiction" comment, i'm talking about what i've seen on different videos. people have said that he had a drug addiction problem, how he's used different aliases to get drugs.

i personally don't put a lot of weight to what is written about MJ and concerning hypertheical drug use. and if and i say IF it were true, then its really NONE of our business.

you're not disagreeing with me,  :icon_arrow: i think you're disagreeing with the people who made these videos. because i'm not the one that posted these videos up.

aware that you didnt 'make' the videos. there are 100's of videos on YT that claim "the truth" when it comes to MJ, even some that are made by believers that are probably incorrect. video makers dont know entire truth. only MJ does.

he said is strictly based on everything that i've watched. and sure, maybe he wasn't in debt (just maybe), because we don't know what was going on for sure. michael planned his "death" for a reason, you don't just plan a death for no reason at all. there has to be something behind it.

money isnt the reason for the hoax.

there's a video on youtube with a woman who was saying that he was afraid for his life. it was because of some guy that he thinks that was in the italian mafia, mr. tounche or whatever that guy's name is. the tapings might be old, but they seem like they could be a part of the hoax, which is why the audios have been used on those hoax videos.

refer to tabloid junkie...

so..why if he was so powerful..why would he say that he was feeling afraid for his life and his children?

possible. it is possible he was afraid for his children. any celebrity of that stature would want to protect their children and ensure their security. but also just remember too, that not everything that comes out of MJs mouth is true. He plays the game too.

also, regarding powerful, have you ever seen some of the people MJ is friends with or has been associated with??

why think of wanting to get a different bank account?

if i had copious amounts of cash i'd be opening up swiss accounts too. many people with loads of $$ do it. also he may have been preparing and organising his fincances pre-death hoax. so that money is accessible after "death"

also as mentioned in the other conversations that are happening on this thread right now, some of his money handlers were dodgy. MJ had to clean it up and get control.

and i'm not the one posting that he was a drug user on videos. others have posted videos of other people that have worked with michael, or have associated with him/ whatever have said that he had a drug addiction problem. so i wouldn't put it past me.

chicana, a lot of people on the net claim to know michael, hell some even claim to BE michael. there are a lot of false claims of truth out there. example, there are videos out there that claim 'proof' that MJ was a pedo! (disgusting i know!  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:)

doesn't matter if it's none of our business, this are things that people have added into their videos. so i really don't know why you're pointing the finger at me, when i'm just going by what i've observed and heard. they're posting this stuff. if you have a disagreement with anyone, it should be them. i just look at these things and think MAYBE it's true, i never once said that it was true.

i PROMISE you that i am not pointing the finger at you, i am encouraging you to be open to the idea that people who make the videos might not know completely what they are talking about. i dont have a disagreement with the people who make the videos as they have a right to their freedom of speech and i dont have a disagrement with you personally. i just believe there is more to the debt thing, i believe he is and was in control, and i dont believe he was a drug addict at time of 'death'

michael was always concerned about his health and body and treated it like a temple, especially as one gets older this becomes extremely important. he has had pain killer addictions in the past, but MJ wasnt the drug addict we read about in the tabs! remember this is a man who wants to live forever.

maybe you're thinking oh.. well you should research for yourself, but i personally, don't have the time. i watch videos when i have time and i don't have much time to research. i'm working nowadays and most of my time is focused on doing just that now. so if i'm posting something up on here it's usually about something that i've seen on youtube.

i understand what you mean about time being a precious commodity, i too am incredibly busy these days. so not reasearching is one thing, and i get it. but believing or accepting information based on what is on YT because its quick and easy is a one way ticket to being fed lies about MJ or anyone else for that matter. YT is an incredibly unreliable source. unfortunately for truth research is key and so is openmindedness.


again not attacking you, dont have issue with you, not disprespecting you or anything like that, its simply how i feel about the statements and opinions in your post which i am responding to with my opinion.

lets get this clear straight up, so there is no negitive emotion inferred to this. this back and forth isnt a fight, argument, or anything negative. its a positive exchange of opinions a mere conversation.

i respect your right to opinion, i just happen to disagree with it.

peace

 :smiley-vault-misc-150:

it seems as if every time i post something, you're saying "i disagree with this or that".. each time. the people that i have seen on those videos were his friends/associates/people that he dealt with. yes i've seen them. do i remember all of their names? no. money wasn't a reason for the hoax? why do you think the hoax came about? there's a reason. what do you believe he faked his death for? just to manipulate the media? i don't think it's just that. something else had to bring about the reason for faking his death. everything in tabloids aren't true either. he probably had a secret drug addiction problem. that guy with the last name ortega was saying that he didn't know that michael had a drug addiction problem, but he said that, he did. now. i'm under the impression (sometimes) that michael probably got a double to stand in for him sometimes in shows and his double (probably was taking drugs), which (probably) was his plan, to fake his death and make it seem as if he was on drugs and make it seem like that was the cause for his death. for what reason would he have fear for his children and his own life if there wasn't some reason as to why he'd want to move away to another place, so that he can be away from people, ect. why?

"chicana, a lot of people on the net claim to know michael, hell some even claim to BE michael. there are a lot of false claims of truth out there. example, there are videos out there that claim 'proof' that MJ was a pedo!" i never said that the people from the internet say that they know michael, i was saying the people that were working with him: example: ortega (was in a video claiming that mj was on drugs,may have been that other guy, they look alike to me (i don't remember who's who..) all i know is people were saying these things on those videos that he had a drug addiction problem. ortega or whatever the guy's name is said he was unaware of it, but he had a problem with drugs.

i understand that you think of it as a "healthy debate", but the debate shouldn't be with me. it's just what i'm thinking due to my observations on youtube and what people have said on their videos. i can't even rule out that everything on youtube is false either. (ex. the videos on the hoax forum in the media section- i've watched most of these videos before i joined this forum). the only thing that we all agree on, on this board is that we think or perhaps even know that mj faked his death.

[Chicana]

Iwantyouback - i do agree on the point that some in the inner circle were up to no good. MJ has spoken many a time about misplaced trust and greed. there were definitely ppl doing underhanded things and there have been for years.

i just dont think MJ was the weak helpless victim all the time. MJ is a control freak. he knows what he is doing and some of his antics are planned. again, only JMHO. i have no proof either way.

having said that, even the most amazing people can make foolish financial decisions. MJ is not immune to that, i know.

Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you here! Don't get me wrong, I don't look at Michael and think that he is a helpless victim all of the time. You're totally right - Michael was a control freak and he called the shots almost all of the time. But I think when it comes to his debt, I think he was a victim in that specific case.

@Bec I do understand what you mean when you say that debt = wealth. But I think that's only in some cases. I was always taught that debt was a bad thing, and if you can't pay it off, you're kind of in trouble. Michael always said that no matter what he didn't want to be performing "Billie Jean" when he was 50 and that he just wanted to have a happy, worry-free life with his children. Why all of a sudden the change of heart? I personally believe that he wanted to do This Is It to pay off his debt, but then his life was threatened and had to do this hoax that was on the back-burner for a while. This is just my opinion though. Not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying I'm right.

 :th_bravo:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

as my post isn't being comprehended and is being misinterpreted i am going to quit while ahead as its clearly going in circles. emotion can obviously prevent objectivity! also it wasn't intended to be a negative experience. i'm done

@ bec completely agree with your last post. there is such a thing as good and bad debt, ie negative gearing etc. asset value exceeding debt amount etc. and yes sometimes difficult for us small fries to comprehend.

[Chicana]

I personally do believe in the debt story. I think being in debt was one of the reasons why Michael planned this hoax. I am a HUGE fan of him and I really look up to him, he is and will always be my inspiration, but I'm not going to fool myself or be biased and say that he was in fantastic shape for the past decade. I honestly don't think he was. Health wise, I think Michael was and still is great, as we can see in This Is It. However, money wise, I think Michael was in a lot of debt and in trouble. We all saw the way Michael spent his money in the horrible "Living With Michael Jackson" documentary with Bashir. BUT, I don't blame the debt on Michael. Michael's financial managers and lawyers should have been looking after him and his money. It's not Michael's fault he got in debt because he has people to tell him whether or not he's in good enough shape to purchase expensive items like the ones in the documentary. And even though Michael likes to hire the best of the best, I don't think the people in Michael's inner circle were there to help him and make sure he's okay. The people around him were money hungry and couldn't have cared less about the state Michael was in financially - as long as they got their salary they were happy. I honestly wish with all of my heart this wasn't the case because Michael cared and still cares about everyone with all of his heart and soul. But what I really wish is that the people in his inner circle were more caring and loving like he is.

I think once the Estate pays the rest of the $25 million, that will open the doors for the big BAM - if there even is a BAM.

 :th_bravo: