Whitney Houston - Is this really what it has come to?

[SimPattyK]

But what if in the end this proves to be part of Michael's plan?

But what if it's not? Wouldn't you then be sorry if you ignored her family's feelings and thought that after all of these days/months/years when or if Michael comes back that she did actually pass on and that her family and the world is actually trying to cope with this sudden, sad loss?

No, i wouldn't be sorry, because I didn't say anything offensive , on the contrary I defended Whitney.
If in the end it would be proven that Michael died, would you be sorry for being a believer ?

In some ways, I would be a little sorry for being a beLIEver because I don't want his children thinking that we thought they were liars and weren't coping with the loss of their father. So yes, I would be a little sorry, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it or anything.

^^ This is where we are again very different.
I would never be sorry for being a believer. I trust myself and my own judgement that much.
I would never regret a single moment ever since this magnificent adventure started.

And I never thought they were LIARS!! just very good actors!

[IWantYouBack]

I base my beliefs on her own words

Well then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.

And Michael did?

Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.

You didn't watch the Oprah interview.
I prefer to believe her than what the media says about her. She said she recovered. I saw her alive and well and optimist and full of projects in interviews just few months before she died. That's where her words apply!

there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.

But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different.

of course. nobody said otherwise. The cases are totally different, but also very connected.

[...] And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.

ye but then how do you explain all the similarities? or do you choose to ifgnore all that?
Ok, I understand you don't feel like putting up a Non-Weird List.
But then you never even touched the points in the Weird List. What are we discussing about here?
I think that rather than debating AROUND the subject we should get INTO the actual stuff!
You said you opened this thread after you saw the Weird List. Ok, well let's start discussing the Weird List, point by point. This way this debate will be meaningful.
Let's just get to the point(s) and discuss the essence!!

So what about point no. 1 from the List ? is this only "an apparent weird stuff?" as @IWantYouBack said or is it a REAL FACT!? I wanna hear all possible PROs and CONs about that.

What about point no. 2 ??

I never said Michael did. But I said that the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.

And you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attack your Weird List. I appreciate the work you've done and if you would like to continue your work then fine. I just posted this thread after I saw the Weird List because that was the post that signified how trendy and deep this whole Whitney Houston issue was becoming. The Weird List honestly doesn't really have that much to do with my opinion, I just kind of used it as a starting point and as an excuse to start this thread because it was really a warning sign that this MJ Death Hoax might not be that legitimate whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. And I think I've stated many, many times that I am NOT interested in this Whitney Houston Death Hoax discussion. I'm here for Michael and only Michael. I just want to believe that Whitney is up in Heaven watching over us and that is it. I just posted this thread to see if other people agreed with me or felt the same way so then I could have a little bit of support, that's all. I don't see why we need to attack the Weird List if ultimately we know that our opinions are not going to change. We will get no where doing that and most importantly, we will get no where to the truth regarding MICHAEL'S DEATH, which should be the main reason why we're all here in the first place. Not Whitney Houston even though I love her music and I believe that she was a great person.

[SimPattyK]

***error***

[IWantYouBack]

I base my beliefs on her own words

Well then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.

And Michael did?

Where do her words apply to this debate? But, her words do apply to my side of the story. She admitted she had a drug problem.

You didn't watch the Oprah interview.
I prefer to believe her than what the media says about her. She said she recovered. I saw her alive and well and optimist and full of projects in interviews just few months before she died. That's where her words apply!

there were also videos and footage with Michael in a wheelchair, with him with plastres on his face, looking really bad. Also his family said that they vainly tried to bring him on the good track, regarding the prescription pain killers he used..
SO? Either they are both dead, murdered by the industry, or they are both alive.

But, again, similar to the death hoax, Michael's case was different.

of course. nobody said otherwise. The cases are totally different, but also very connected.

[...] And it is NOT true that if Michael is alive, she must be alive. Or that if Michael was murdered, she was murdered. Or that they are both dead. These people are not attached together by handcuffs or by the skull like conjoined twins. They are two SEPARATE people who have different memories, different achievements, and different lives all together. Yes, they were in the same business, but they're different people. That is just getting too far out there.

ye but then how do you explain all the similarities? or do you choose to ifgnore all that?
Ok, I understand you don't feel like putting up a Non-Weird List.
But then you never even touched the points in the Weird List. What are we discussing about here?
I think that rather than debating AROUND the subject we should get INTO the actual stuff!
You said you opened this thread after you saw the Weird List. Ok, well let's start discussing the Weird List, point by point. This way this debate will be meaningful.
Let's just get to the point(s) and discuss the essence!!

So what about point no. 1 from the List ? is this only "an apparent weird stuff?" as @IWantYouBack said or is it a REAL FACT!? I wanna hear all possible PROs and CONs about that.

What about point no. 2 ??

I never said Michael did. But I said that the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.

And you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attack your Weird List. I appreciate the work you've done and if you would like to continue your work then fine. I just posted this thread after I saw the Weird List because that was the post that signified how trendy and deep this whole Whitney Houston issue was becoming. The Weird List honestly doesn't really have that much to do with my opinion, I just kind of used it as a starting point and as an excuse to start this thread because it was really a warning sign that this MJ Death Hoax might not be that legitimate whether I have my own reasons to beLIEve or not. And I think I've stated many, many times that I am NOT interested in this Whitney Houston Death Hoax discussion. I'm here for Michael and only Michael. I just want to believe that Whitney is up in Heaven watching over us and that is it. I just posted this thread to see if other people agreed with me or felt the same way so then I could have a little bit of support, that's all. I don't see why we need to attack the Weird List if ultimately we know that our opinions are not going to change. We will get no where doing that and most importantly, we will get no where to the truth regarding MICHAEL'S DEATH, which should be the main reason why we're all here in the first place. Not Whitney Houston even though I love her music and I believe that she was a great person.

[SimPattyK]

I base my beliefs on her own words

Well then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.

And Michael did?

I never said Michael did.

But then why did you imply that Whitney should have said it?

the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.

And again: think: maybe Whitney joined the club at the last moment! maybe they saved her at the last moment and they didn't have time to prepare "jokes" for her too prior to her death

And you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attach your Weird List.

No, I didn't get anything wrong.  You said clearly that you wouldn't have opened the thread until after you saw the List. Pls don't back up now when this is getting more interesting.

Let's discuss the points.

I wanna hear your opinion on the first 2 points in the List, for now.

[SimPattyK]

I don't see why we need to attack the Weird List if ultimately we know that our opinions are not going to change. We will get no where doing that and most importantly, we will get no where to the truth regarding MICHAEL'S DEATH, which should be the main reason why we're all here in the first place. 

Precisely because we are all here to learn the truth surrounding Michael, precisely because of this, I think that, taking into account all the similarities, we should debate the Weird List point by point. I think even if we continue to discuss it from our different perspectives, this will most surely offer a very OBJECTIVE view on the whole theory. That's why I insist for you to take each point from the Weird List and dissect it together, here.
 I fully appreciate you and thank you for opening this thread.

[SimPattyK]

***error***

[IWantYouBack]

I base my beliefs on her own words

Well then if this is really the case, Whitney herself has never said she was going to fake her death.

And Michael did?

I never said Michael did.

But then why did you imply that Whitney should have said it?

the weird things surrounding his death were so MAJOR and so ODD and so INSANE that a death hoax is almost the only option available for this all to make sense. And, MJ has joked about faking his death like Elvis before and there are some interesting messages in his songs, it's not a big leap.

And again: think: maybe Whitney joined the club at the last moment! maybe they saved her at the last moment and they didn't have time to prepare "jokes" for her too prior to her death

And you got the idea of this whole thread totally wrong. I didn't open it to start a debate or attach your Weird List.

No, I didn't get anything wrong.  You said clearly that you wouldn't have opened the thread until after you saw the List. Pls don't back up now when this is getting more interesting.

Let's discuss the points.

I wanna hear your opinion on the first 2 points in the List, for now.

I implied Whitney should have because you stated that you make your decisions based on her own words. And if this is really the case for you, for you to make the decision that she is alive, she should have stated that in her own words.

And, I didn't develop a flat out decision based on what if's that she was dead. I developed AN OPINION. And in my personal opinion, based on what we know, I don't THINK she did. I'm not saying she didn't fake her death because we will never know for sure unless we see her again alive and in the flesh. All I'm saying is that I don't THINK she did and you will never change that. But with Michael, in my opinion, a death hoax is very clear to see and it isn't a big leap because MJ has "joked" about faking his death before and there were too many MAJOR weird things from his family, to mess-ups on dates, right to his lyrics dating back to the Thriller era. There's none of that with Whitney. Sorry, but there isn't a lyrical message in "I Will Always Love You" or any other Whitney song I've heard like there is in "Threatened" in Michael's case.

And PLEASE do not make me say this again. I am NOT attacking your Weird List in MY thread or on this forum. PERIOD. I am here for my idol, Michael Jackson. I don't care about Whitney Houston when it comes to logging in on a Michael Jackson Death Hoax forum until it is PROVEN for SURE that she is indeed involved in Michael's plan and there is absolutely no way to confirm that. So please understand that I am NOT going to attack your Weird List. I'm NOT interested and I'm NOT here for that and I did NOT start this thread to debate about a Weird List over someone I've never idolized as much as Michael.

Also, DontWalkAway's point would have some credibility if we all thought "Hmm WHAT IF Michael's ambulance picture is fake?" or "Hmmm WHAT IF the seal has 32 stars and not 31?" or "Hmmm WHAT IF Joe Jackson was ever caught laughing after his son died?" This is where DontWalkAway's point would be absolutely incredible. But that's not what we have here. These STRANGE things actually happened and they are in the red zone when it comes to weird things surrounding Michael's death that actually involve the law. I do NOT see that with Whitney and never will until it's proven. And attacking your Weird List will not help me, you, or anyone else in this friggen thread I wish I never even started now because I KNEW someone would turn it into a friggen debate thread which I never wanted it to be in the first place.

Now, this is finally my last reply to you EVER in this thread because I'm tired of repeating myself. I've given my opinion and it's not going to change.

@Bec, can you please close this thread? I totally regret even opening it in the first place now.

[SimPattyK]

Let's finally get to the POINT.

Whitney ~ The Weird List

1. September 13th, 2001 [ 9+1+3+2+1=16 [88] ] - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (just like it happened with that Sun article about Michael having 6 months to live on December 2008))

OK. Shoot ^^

[bec]

Sim, start a thread if you're interested in the subject and stop trying to hijack this one. Also stop badgering at IWantYouBack. Thank you.

[SimPattyK]

OK Bec.

if her thread was really only to see who also thinks that Whitney died, then she should have let the Weird List out. But since she said she opened the thread after she saw the List posted, then I think I was entitled to ask her to discuss the Weird List.


So I guess that ends this.

[bec]

@Sim: you're entitled to your opinion, of course, and it's not wrong. You're just taking it too far. So please, if you would, just stop.

[MissG]

Truth be told, it bothers me that some find "clues" in WH's death and are believing it is a hoax, because I feel like it diminishes the legitimacy of the MJ death hoax.

Although it shouldn't bother me because I have solid reasons to believe MJHD irregardless of what anyone else believes.

But it still does for some reason.

I think this trend would bother me less in 2010 then it does now. Or even less a year ago. But now? It's tough being an MJ death hoaxer these days. Real tough. It's frankly embarrassing to be known as a believer anymore because we appear to be completely insane and pathetic.

Exactly.

I agree as well.

[MissG]

Just wanted to add, that W.H death has not impacted the world as Michael´s did. In fact, I said 2- 3 days ago "W.H died" while meeting a big group of people and their reaction was "who cares".

Michael was haunted and extorted. He had reasons to "fake" his death. W.H has been another story.

[mrbigshot]

sim, did you read my post? lol. I think it's worth acknowledging. She's dead. I'm certain of it.  It may be a bit strange BECAUSE it could have been a murder. but it's not hoax. As bec pointed out, the authenticity of Michael's hoax would be lost if we continue to think stuff such as this.