TIAI January 21

[BeTheChange]

Re: Ron Wyatt...I'm not making any decision just yet because it would be an uninformed/uneducated one, at this point anyway.  My 'instinct' is to be skeptical/cautious...but that has more to do with me than with him or any of his claims.  One thing I will say is that IF the basis to dismiss his claims is due to the scientific, political, or religious communities' LACK of approval in his claims, then THAT isn't good enough for me either (i.e. 'their' lack of approval doesn't automatically mean his claims are fake...especially given what we KNOW about these institutions and how they operate based on power, greed, and money).

Again, I'm not saying I believe anything from Wyatt...as I stated before, that was the 'toughest' part of TS' post for me to 'digest'....BUT, relying on ANY institution to give us the 'truth' would also be naive IMO based on a lot of history full of lies and cover-ups.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[bindupbrokenhearted]

This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.

Yes, very off. He is a fraudster. Just google him everyone. Even religious organisations have rejected his claims (of which there are more, one being the "discovery" of where the Red Sea parted). As bindup said, if what he said was true, all Christianity would be touting the find and even Answers in Genesis have rebutted him. He has no blood test results (there are none no matter how hard I looked), no empirical evidence, no collaboration, no video or photos- no evidence at all apart from his personal testimony.

I've worked with mentally ill people and they are VERY sincere in many of their wild beliefs, to the point where you sometimes have to wonder if they are right and you are wrong...until the evidence shows up. Case in point, the ill person was sure their 8yr old was being abused at home while she was in care and was very distressed. The person was extremely convincing until the evidence showed up as an adult child of 26 yrs...

Claims without evidence should be dismissed until evidence is forthcoming or people may as well believe any wild assertion, like the orbiting teapot:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than that of dogmatists to prove them. This, of course, is a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an ellipitical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add the the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But, if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books and taught as sacred truth every Sunday, hesitation to believe in it's existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychatrist in an enlightened age or of the inquisitor in an earlier time" Bertrand Russell

That's a lot of judgement about someone you only 'googled' and never met. Do you know what slander I find if I google MJ? Does that mean that everything on the internet about MJ is truth? Hell no! So if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions only by 'googling'. This man appears very sincere and if there is one thing I learned in the past 3 years, it is that truth is ALWAYS ignored or ridiculed. Just look at how the media and the non-believers treat us hoaxers.

 WTF?? is wrong with people lately? So much hate and judgement and assumptions towards people they never even met. It's actually pretty disgusting in my opinion.

Hi Souza,

You're right.  I shouldn't have said that 'he seems off' but 'that his message seems off'.  That is what I meant.  So I apologize. 

I am all for hearing his evidence.  But I haven't seen any yet. 

I try to judge no one, as only God is omniscient, therefore, it is not my job to judge anyone, especially to people I don't know.  I know I fall short of God's law everyday.  Forgive me.  I am forgiven, not perfect.

I apologize if I seemed to be attacking RW.  I am just very skeptical of his message and claims, that's all.  I really, really don't mean to attack anyone, so I apologize if I seemed like I was.

It is hard this day in age to figure out what is a character assassination, what is real info, and what is lies.  Hopefully I didn't come off as being mean to RW.  I care deeply about all people.

But I also want the truth too.  bearhug

[MissG]

This quote is of TS, and i believe that some time he said that the number 7 is very important to decipher the enigma of the ark, ..i think. The Sign,.. i guess is TS, then there is more to come

I thought that I would have time over the holidays for level 7 here; but that didn't happen, sorry.

Obviously, others can continue the investigation here; and I will be back here as soon as I can.

For sure, all three 7's will be done by the end of 2012: Level 7, Update 7, and Sign 7 (777).

The seven sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, penance, anointing of the sick, marriage and holy orders


(In spanish: Los siete sacramentos: Bautismo, confirmacion, eucaristia, penitencia, uncion de los enfermos, matrimonio y orden sacerdotal)

For a few instances of this, take the seven days (or cycles) of the creation as referred to in Genesis:

The seven heavens, so often referred to.
The seven thrones.
The seven seals.
The seven churches.
The seven days' march round the walls of Jericho, when, on the seventh day, the walls fell, before that mysterious God force symbolized in the number of seven. It is also remarkable that there are exactly seven generations from David to the birth of Christ. In Revelation we read of the seven spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Ezekiel speaks of The seven angels of the Lord that go to and fro through the whole earth, which is believed to be a reference to the magnetic influences of the seven creative planets which radiate through the earth.

And this goes on and on and on and on....

[sandythyme]

SimPattyK.....thank you!   bearhug

[MissG]

Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.

[hesouttamylife]

SlimpattyK said:  "If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!"



I love this.  Beautifully stated and from the heart.  Bless you.    bearhug

[~Souza~]

Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.

Your post actually says then that Jesus' disciples were liars and that RW lied about the blood, because he said it was analyzed and confirmed human (see the video lilwendy posted in the thread on the other forum).

What I think is interesting about Ron Wyatt is that he described the Ark in a way no one ever has. The popular (indiana jones) ark is the one the catholic church uses, and if there is one institution on earth I do NOT trust, it's the catholic church. But Wyatt's description has biblical confirmation and makes way more sense. Why was Wyatt ridiculed like that, why attacked? Why is this not common knowledge under christians? That to me tells me he spoke the truth. Lies have a platform in this world, truth hasn't. That's one thing I know.

Maybe I will call the museum when I have time to ask them about the blood results etc. I have my phone contract ending next month and I still have 250 euros to spend before it's gone, so this might be a good way, lol.

[BeTheChange]

SlimpattyK said:  "If there is one HUGE reason behind Michael´s death hoax then for me it would be this:
He took a step aside, retreated the entertainer and King of Pop from the worlds stage in order to allow everyone to take a closer look on the MAN behind the myth and let his message be heard loud and clear and like this maybe enable and encourage people to follow his example.

Try to start with the man in the mirror, try to heal the world starting with your own little world, your environment, the people around you.
Try to make this world a better place. Make that change....make the difference!"

I love this.  Beautifully stated and from the heart.  Bless you.    bearhug

+1 ... Beautifully said Sim...and there's LOTS to love about 'the man'.

"He was an angel walking the planet"

IMO...he still is, and he hasn't 'let go of our hand'.  And he's probably hoping we won't let go of his either. 

I know I won't.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[MissG]

Back to R.W I still don´t get why people wants to make Jesus out of this earth.

The most probable scenario is that he was a normal man with revolutionary ideas, very charismatic, not understood by his own people and hated because he said a blasphemy, that he was the messiah. He really created a new concept of not agreeing with the system of faith back then and created a new set of values followed up to today.

Also, back then, people were experts in making others believe in supernatural powers using special effects. Just read about the oracle of Delphi.

The sacrifice of lamb or other animals is a common thing among some primitive religions, so may be that blood R.W talks about is just animal blood.

Your post actually says then that Jesus' disciples were liars and that RW lied about the blood, because he said it was analyzed and confirmed human (see the video lilwendy posted in the thread on the other forum).

What I think is interesting about Ron Wyatt is that he described the Ark in a way no one ever has. The popular (indiana jones) ark is the one the catholic church uses, and if there is one institution on earth I do NOT trust, it's the catholic church. But Wyatt's description has biblical confirmation and makes way more sense. Why was Wyatt ridiculed like that, why attacked? Why is this not common knowledge under christians? That to me tells me he spoke the truth. Lies have a platform in this world, truth hasn't. That's one thing I know.

Maybe I will call the museum when I have time to ask them about the blood results etc. I have my phone contract ending next month and I still have 250 euros to spend before it's gone, so this might be a good way, lol.

I don´t think that Jesus disciples lied, but the church did modifying the bible content. Imo, the story and history is other.

R.Wyatt send the blood to be analyzed and I do not believe for a second that those were the results. That blood should have been analyzed by more labs in order to obtain accurate results, and that didn´t happen. It´s like tests of C14. One needs to test in 2-3 labs...also the tests must happen under neutral and just scientific approaches. That´s not the case of R.Wyatt and his team.

There are other "arks" found dated by c14. one of those was in the dusty shelf of a south African museum.

The academy "attacked" R.Wyatt because he did not give solid proof as required in this situations.

In resume, R.W said that Jesus was "a freak" with less chromosomes than human beings have, so he was out of this planet and holly.
Why to make it so fantastic? Why not accepting that Jesus was human, charismatic and a leader of some sort and just that?

As I said, his claims are just directed towards proving scientifically  his beliefs, but it did not work because he couldn´t.

[bindupbrokenhearted]

To be honest, I am not sure where all this is going (TIAI).

The more I research Ron Wyatt, the less evidence I see regarding his claims.  I know the AoC is important (especially for the EOW) but where is this all going?

IDK: I guess I need to take a break for a while.  And pray and study some more on this.  Will be back later when I have had a break.

Love and peace.   bearhug

[Heartsong]

This is a strange video if you ask me:

[YOUTUBE]YtVSPfBTUJs[/YOUTUBE]

Also, a very astute commenter on youtube said to see at 0:50 seconds in.

I am still not sure about this guy, Ron Wyatt.  Something seems off about him.

Yes, very off. He is a fraudster. Just google him everyone. Even religious organisations have rejected his claims (of which there are more, one being the "discovery" of where the Red Sea parted). As bindup said, if what he said was true, all Christianity would be touting the find and even Answers in Genesis have rebutted him. He has no blood test results (there are none no matter how hard I looked), no empirical evidence, no collaboration, no video or photos- no evidence at all apart from his personal testimony.

I've worked with mentally ill people and they are VERY sincere in many of their wild beliefs, to the point where you sometimes have to wonder if they are right and you are wrong...until the evidence shows up. Case in point, the ill person was sure their 8yr old was being abused at home while she was in care and was very distressed. The person was extremely convincing until the evidence showed up as an adult child of 26 yrs...

Claims without evidence should be dismissed until evidence is forthcoming or people may as well believe any wild assertion, like the orbiting teapot:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of skeptics to disprove received dogmas rather than that of dogmatists to prove them. This, of course, is a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an ellipitical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add the the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But, if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books and taught as sacred truth every Sunday, hesitation to believe in it's existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychatrist in an enlightened age or of the inquisitor in an earlier time" Bertrand Russell

That's a lot of judgement about someone you only 'googled' and never met. Do you know what slander I find if I google MJ? Does that mean that everything on the internet about MJ is truth? Hell no! So if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions only by 'googling'. This man appears very sincere and if there is one thing I learned in the past 3 years, it is that truth is ALWAYS ignored or ridiculed. Just look at how the media and the non-believers treat us hoaxers.

 WTF?? is wrong with people lately? So much hate and judgement and assumptions towards people they never even met. It's actually pretty disgusting in my opinion.

So how else would you like me to find out about the guy's work Souza? He is actually dead now so meeting him is out of the question. Maybe my local library?  I searched databases as well, of which there is no sign of his purported blood tests. Other words were used to describe his finds besides fraud. I recall 'scam' and 'charlatan' was used also and these were from Christian websites, so there is no bias in the reports. I have concluded his work was fraudulent, however in the light of new evidence I would be happy to change my mind. There is no hate involved in my conclusion. I have no personal feelings towards the man one way or the other. I am reporting comments on his work.

As for Wyatt seeming sincere, that is hardly the way to measure the truth or not of what he claims. People are ripped off every day by those that come across as 'sincere'.

Yes, if I google Michael I will find much abhorrent info, but I will also find much good. It is up to me to weigh the evidence and I have. Michael was victimised, framed and villified for no good reason except hearsay. There was no PROOF! As there is no proof regarding Wyatt's claims, ALL of them. If there was proof, it would be there, as there was for Michael. The truth always comes out in the end.

I don't think the truth is always ignored. The truth is always there, it just depends on what you use to determine what it is, feelings or facts. Some people use feelings, others need facts. For people that use feelings the facts are irrelevant - it 'feels' right so therefore it is. This method however does not necessarily mean one has discovered the truth, even if it feels as if one has. Feelings often trump facts no matter how convincing the facts are.

Others, like me, need facts. For ones like me this is more difficult because I have then given myself the task of determining what is fact and what is not, no matter how displeasing I may personally find the truth to be. Regarding Wyatt, I have already listed the reasons I doubt his claims and I did not find them on google. They were my own. There are no adequate answers to any of them and apparently even the bible disagrees as to the position of the Ark at the time of Christs crucifixion. 

I too wonder what is going on here because atm there seems to be much uncritical acceptance of extraordinary claims. Making conclusions and then finding facts to support those conclusions is not the way fact finding works. Facts come before conclusions. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Maybe TS can set us straight? Maybe, as some have suggested, it needs to be taken as more of a symbolic example?

[RK]

I think there are a lot of similarities to the way Ron Wyatt is and has been treated to the way MJ was judged as well. Much opinions and heresay offered from people with assumptions who never met them personally. I have never met Ron Wyatt. I have never seen his discoveries for myself, except for videos of the ashen remains at sodom and gomorra, which are very interesting and appear authentic.  To me, it appears as tho Ron Wyatt has nothing to hide. Being a devout man, he did not recant on his death bed. I have watched videos of people who have met with Mr Wyatt before his passing and they all conclude that he was extremely sincere. People passing judgement without meeting him are going on secondhand knowledge, similar to the way tabloids blanket a matter with their disinformation.
So, what do I make of the claims of Ron Wyatt? I simply don't know. But I will not dismiss it as nonsense. I will  file it away until more light is given . The Sign's latest post has me scratching my head in a few places. But these would be possibly doctrinal issues.
The big picture seems to be the overall theme of the post and as this is only part 1, I will wait and reserve any conclusion until more information is brought forth.
And finally, if anyone is concerned that some of us have been brainwashed by TS posts, this is not true, as my sick old brain got a cleansing and washing with the word of God way back in 1979.The renewing of my mind  was no small feat, and is an ongoing process daily.   

[BeTheChange]

Maybe TS can set us straight? Maybe, as some have suggested, it needs to be taken as more of a symbolic example?

Or maybe TS has set us up? As others have suggested, I'm wondering if this is some sort of 'test'.  It's almost like he included some 'common sense' truths in his post (i.e. as per the Bible, the location of the angels/cherubims and the staves makes 'sense' to me).  But there is other stuff he's included (especially the Wyatt stuff) that takes a huge leap of faith (not in God, but in a 'man' or several) at this point anyway, with what we've got at our disposal to analyze. 

IDK...we've often said that nothing TS posts is 'random'...and it's confusing to me as to how HE would consider any of this to be 'evidence', based on the many instances where he 'discredited' other evidence because it 'wouldn't stand up in court'.

So...I'm kinda left with 2 thoughts:  TS is either intentionally 'testing' us (once again)....OR he has info that we don't have yet that would support Wyatt's claims (and that will hopefully be made available to us at some point).  But either way....both options mean, to me anyway, that based on what we've learned in the past 2.5 years, along with what we knew coming in....it's gonna take more than what we've seen so far to 'support' Wyatt's claims (JMHO of course). 

Having said that, though, I'm gonna remain open to further evidence, research whatever else I can in the meantime...and I'm gonna keep watchin'. 

One of the many things I have learned is that there is a lot more to be learned...no matter how 'sure' you are about anything.

And finally, if anyone is concerned that some of us have been brainwashed by TS posts, this is not true, as my sick old brain got a cleansing and washing with the word of God way back in 1979.The renewing of my mind  was no small feat, and is an ongoing process daily.    [/color]

 /bravo/

With L.O.V.E. always.

[bec]

Sorta proves the haters wrong, hasn't it? Bunch of dirty brains here.

[BeTheChange]

For those that want to take a little 'mental break' from the 'studying'....here's some great (and beautiful) advice from 'the man' himself:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Xps93E6BQ[/youtube]

@Mike...I've put my heart on the line, and I'm trying.  Love you!

With L.O.V.E. always.