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MissG

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 10:43:08 AM
Souza, I appreciate your post. However, faith of any sort introduced by a condition is not a faith I consider safe.

The way TS has been operating has all the undertones of how a cult works. To be the cult of Michael Jackson can even be taken as fan but to warn people forcing them to decide either this or that with a leading consequence is plain wrong.

Point 21
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"Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it."

"If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

"faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him"



To me, and many who think alike, the only "evil" walking on earth is humans, mentally disturbed in most of the cases with deep religion and faithful conditions (and the tax man).

Whoever want to study the bible, fine, but those so called prophecies are always and only performed by men, not by any natural godly force, just men and in many cases are a cause of "faithful" groups going around spreading viruses in the air or whatever and claiming that it was GODs will. God will ma´ass. MEN with an agenda. to make their holly book right.

TS!
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

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Andrea

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 10:50:01 AM
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I don't know if you need to be religious and believe in God to see the world is about to end. No matter if you deny to see it or accept it, there is an evil side who is trying to fasten the process. You don't want to call them NWO or illuminati, fine. You don't need to believe the Blue beam Project or HAARP. But no one can deny the fact that the earth is not getting any better. All of the rising so called "natural" disasters, hunger, poverty and so on ... It is so obvious that there's something that is not going in order, there's something definitely wrong. If you want to close your eyes to it, that means you are one of the people who is going to allow the world to end. Conversely, the humanity should come together right now. We are the ones who are going to save this planet, our future and humanity. Noone else is going to come and help us to fix this.

TS wrote perfectly about this.


Quote
The end is near; whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not. If you were living in the path of an approaching hurricane, disbelief would not stop the hurricane from arriving. You could say that you don’t believe the news, or you don’t believe in hurricanes at all, or you don’t want the hurricane to hit, or whatever you say or do—the hurricane would still hit. The only thing that you could do, is be aware and prepare.

Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it.

If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

About the religious aspect of this hoax, it is not hard for me to get it. We know that Michael reads Bible every day and we know how he is trying to save this planet and humanity. So, do you really think that he would be ignoring the 2012 theory/fact? According to some it is just a theory and according to some it is a fact. And for a person who reads Bible everyday, it must be so hard and heart breaking to see the signs of apocalypse are coming true one by one. It's like the satan is breaking the seals one by one to bring the doomsday. I can not think no one else but Michael who would care this much and insist to open humanity's eyes to the truth. So to think that this religious side of the hoax has nothing to do with Michael, is just because you want to ignore and not accept the end is coming and Michael is there to warn us about it. And it is pretty naive imo. We all heard what Michael said in TII. "We have 4 years to get it right." If he was not talking about 2012, then what was he talking about?

It is not the time to ignore or deny it my friends. It is time to get it right and start doing something about it! Otherwise it is going to be so so late for all of us. Michael is leading us the way. Listen what he says, and follow him. God is going to be on our side. God bless Michael and all of us.


I agree with a lot of what you've said here PureLove. I, for one, cannot ignore what I see happening in the world around us and I refuse to bury my head in the sand.  It's possible that I over-analyze events sometimes but when the dominoes keep falling, it's hard to ignore.  I believe in God, I have ever since I was a child and my family only went to church for a couple of years and for me, that was Sunday school in the basement of the church while the grown-ups were upstairs hearing the sermons.  I was very young so I was not overly influenced from what little I can remember but believing in God is something that has always been natural to me.  I know a lot of atheists that have had near-death experiences (I'm a civilian in a military work environment) and a few of them have admitted to me that in those moments, they have prayed to God.  I think that deep down a lot of people believe, or know instinctively, that God exists.  I know this doesn't apply to everybody as everyone is an individual with their own belief systems.  So whoever reads TS's post, take from it what you will, but don't dismiss it out of hand.  Even Front said, and I'm paraphrasing here - if you have faith in nothing else, have faith in Michael.  And we're all here because we believe, or know, that Michael is alive.  He's not going to drive us off a cliff.
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MissG

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 10:59:10 AM
@Andrea
" I know a lot of atheists that have had near-death experiences (I'm a civilian in a military work environment) and a few of them have admitted to me that in those moments, they have prayed to God.  I think that deep down a lot of people believe, or know instinctively, that God exists. 2

Those are chemical reactions of our brain. Like a short circuit, that´s why the lights etc.

Also, when we are in "vigilia" (can´t find the word in english) we suffer what we believe are godly experiences, is called hypnagogia, allucinations and sensorial disturbances.

When "death" come our way, we get a new approach to life, that´s way we tend to change for the better when it happens.

The God they prayed to was may be their own wish to survive by chance.

 
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:00:32 AM
The more information I pull up on RW, the more I am starting to believe he was a fake/fraudster and was interested in $$$$. 

Okay, here are some sites with a few selected quotes

First, the supposed background of Mr. Wyatt:

Quote
One of the articles about Ron Wyatt which was faxed to me came from Christian Information Ministries International, whose editor is Bill Crouse. He did some investigation of Ron Wyatt and his organization and discovered some of Wyatt's information about himself in a brochure his Christian booking agency produced for him was untruthful. Bill Crouse spoke with Jeff Roberts and Associates, about the false information in the brochure they used in booking Wyatt into churches. (Yes, many Christian celebrities use booking agencies to get speaking engagements in churches) Quoting from the Ararat Report of May-June 1988 from Christian Information Ministries, it says, "It lists Ron as graduating from the University of Michigan with honors in Pre-med and as having finished all the requirements for both M.A. and Ph.D. in antiquities. It also lists him as being a Korean war veteran." Christian Information Ministries when checking this out found none of the above to be true. According to Bill Crouse, when Ron Wyatt's booking agency Jeff Roberts and Associates, located in Hendersonville, Tennessee, was questioned about the discrepancies in the brochure, they admitted the brochure needed to be re-written, but they did not know who was to blame for the inaccuracies.

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More evidence of fraud:

Quote
This last visit to Israel by Mrs. Mary Nell Wyatt and her new husband was supposed to uncover the cave that contained the Ark of the Covenant that was covered with the very blood of Jesus Christ. They got permission from the Israeli Antiquities Department to do some excavating near Zedekiah’s cave which is where Ron Wyatt said the entrance to the tunnel to the Ark of the Covenant was years ago. You, reader, might wonder, if Wyatt Archaeological Research is a bogus operation, why would the Israeli Antiquities Department grant Mrs. Mary Nell Wyatt and company a license to dig? That’s a good question. I asked my source in Israel who used to be a curator at the Israeli Department of Antiquities. He said “MONEY!”
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Regarding those who excavated with RW and what they had to say:

Quote
Our team proceeded to the Garden Tomb, whose custodians were expecting our arrival. Wyatt had negotiated cordially and successfully with them. With an assortment of gardening tools we set to work, moving a large pile of rubble and rock which had accumulated where Wyatt had probed earlier.  Over several days we were able to excavate our way down into the same cave system that Wyatt had explored two years before. I'm sorry to report that in the end we came up empty-handed. The connecting channel through which Wyatt had claimed to see the furniture was not there. On the final day of excavation, when we could not see the internal cavern landmarks that Wyatt had predicted, Ron himself finally climbed down into the dim space. After a long time he emerged, looking confused. As we waited respectfully to hear his report, he mumbled a few words like: "It's not the same; it's changed. It's not the way I remember it." There was no opening to be seen, giving a view into an adjacent cavern. There was nothing. In the process of our digging we had come up with a few interesting little objects from Roman times, but they were irrelevant to our main goal.
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Regarding how some 'evidence' that Ron Wyatt found:

Quote
One of the individuals who I interviewed, who lost approximately 30,000 thousand dollars to Ron Wyatt, went to Israel with him, supposedly to see some of these sights and record them on film. An assignment editor of a major television station in Nasheville went with them. Not only did this individual not see any of these incredible discoveries, but his wife was told by one of Ron Wyatt's sons that the chariot wheels that Ron supposedly discovered in the Gulf of Aqaba were planted there by Ron. Mr. Wyatt gave this couple some coins which he supposedly found at the Ark of the Covenant site. Again, one of Wyatt's sons informed the wife that Wyatt bought those coins. Gentle, soft-spoken Ron verbally abused an Arab car rental agent when the agent told Mr. Wyatt that his son was to young to drive the vehicle.

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Regarding maybe some motives from RW:

Quote
Perhaps more incredible to me than the fact this con could go on as long as it has, is the response of many Christian leaders to this perpetration. I think the most honest response I got in this whole investigation came from a non-believer from a television studio. He said, "I became involved for the money." Thank you, non-Christian for a little honesty.

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Anyone familiar with Answers in Genesis (I don't always like what they say/print and I am not going into that here): but even they don't believe RW's discoveries: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

More sites:
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There are more where that comes from.


Either he is a fraud or has been severely character assassinated, even by mainstream Christian Creationists, who would gladly have evidence that the Creation story is true.  So, the reader is left to decide for his or herself what is true and what is tabloid trash.

As far as me, I don't deny that I believe in the literal Biblical creation, JMO.  And, I would love to have discoveries like these come to the limelight.  But...it has to be good evidence, not fake, fraud, or only interested in one thing  $$$

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Also, WND is known around the Christian circles as a tabloid-like newspaper for Christians.  I may write more on this later.

Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 11:04:05 AM by bindupbrokenhearted
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Andrea

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:04:52 AM
MissG - I can definitely understand what you're saying as an atheist, explaining it scientifically.

As I believe that we (and the entire universe) are created with an intelligent design, by an intelligent designer, those reactions make sense, to believe in something that is innate in everyone.
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MissG

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:07:26 AM
I said as well that Mr. Wyatt had an agenda to prove.

Andrea, I respect what you believe.
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

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Andrea

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:12:36 AM
MissG - I respect your beliefs as well.
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Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:13:08 AM
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I said as well that Mr. Wyatt had an agenda to prove.

Andrea, I respect what you believe.

Right, MissG, now I am wondering why TS would make this post?

You know, this post differs from his usual posts.  Especially regarding 1. evidence (good evidence versus bad): his other posts always had good evidence to support views; 2. looking at all possibilities (it seems like this post only looked at one side and took that side as Gospel truth); and 3. making some strange conclusions and using for a source what most Christians believe as tabloid (WND): I will probably write more on this later. 

Anyways, something to ponder.  I still wonder if TS isn't testing us to see if we will go against him or not since there have been complaints that some blindly follow him and maybe this is to prove a point: that we CAN do our own investigation.  At the same time, we can investigate the real ark versus fake ones...

Just a thought.
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bec

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:34:58 AM
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You know, this post differs from his usual posts.  Especially regarding 1. evidence (good evidence versus bad): his other posts always had good evidence to support views; 2. looking at all possibilities (it seems like this post only looked at one side and took that side as Gospel truth); and 3. making some strange conclusions and using for a source what most Christians believe as tabloid (WND): I will probably write more on this later. 

AGREED.

@TS, I think you ought to participate in the convo here, considering what The Sign said. Those are some extremely strongly worded statements regarding religion and personal belief, and they alienate entire groups of people based on their personal belief system; not just atheists/agnostic but also Muslims and Jews. Many of the statements made by The Sign are elitist and divisive, and the evidence to back them up is lacking. This is a strong departure from TS's usual tone.
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Are you entertained?

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GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 11:53:19 AM
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Still i didn't read the full link to the other forum, but one thing i am going to say for now, i would remind you that someone opened a thread with pictures of Michael and people interested much in the pants of gold, are published pages and pages with photos, i want nor i am interested in influencing the beliefs of anyone in particular but there are people who cares more the size of the penis of Michael that other topics.
nooooo :o :lol:

you think we'll ever come to "investigate" that? ( I would like to know the truth but don't tell anyone :P)
Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 11:57:24 AM by GINAFELICIA
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GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 12:24:52 PM
Quote
“…Masses of minds shrouded with clouded vision
Deceptions and indecisions
No faith of religion
How we’re living
The clock is ticking
The end is coming
There will be no warning…”

But we will live to see the dawn fresse/

I love this song. This song also says : "And enrolled in a class and don?t know who the professor is"

@MJ you changed your mind in the meantime?

from curls:

Quote
So here's a revolutionary thought - hey, Michael Jackson may not be right!  He might believe with all his being in God and prophesies regarding the end of the world etc, he may be doing everything in his power to alert the rest of mankind, and that might make him just about the most loving man to have ever lived, but that still doesn't necessarily make him right

This is just not possible. Michael Jackson can not be wrong.
Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 12:29:14 PM by GINAFELICIA
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Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 12:53:56 PM
Thanks for the info Aussie! I'm not an atheist but the extent of my Bible study is two comparative religion classes so I have a lot to read up on.
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"You can't do your best when you're doubting yourself. If you don't believe in yourself, who will?" - Michael Jackson...Moonwalk

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Sarahli

Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 01:02:17 PM
Just want to pinpoint to this from The Sign's post: "Even God has some limitations (see Hebrews 6:18; 11:6; James 1:13). And one thing that God can’t do is create finite beings with infinite knowledge..."

I believe that God has no limitations and the He can do everything, so I don't agree with this statement at all. Maybe it should be worded differently...  confused/

---------------------------------------

@ Gina thank you for reminding me about this great song!

SHOUT by Michael Jackson

Ignorance of people purchasing diamonds and necklaces
And barely able to keep the payments up on their lessons
And enrolled in a class and don't know who the professor is (ie TBTB/Lucifer/Satan)
How low people go for the dough and make a mess of things?

Kids are murdering other kids for the fun of it
Instead of using their mind or their fist, they put a gun in it (ie people need to wake up and THINK for THEMSELVES, take responsibility)
Wanna be a part of a clique, don't know who's running it
Tragedy on top of tragedy you know it's killing me.

 So many people in agony, this shouldn't have to be
Too busy focusing on ourselves and not His Majesty (His Majesty = God)
There has to be some type of change for this day and age
We gotta rearrange and flip the page (Michael’s Hoax and Bam)

 Living encased like animals and cannibals (there’s a better way to live)
Eating each other alive just to survive the nine to five
Every single day is trouble while we struggle and strive
Peace of mind's so hard to find

 I wanna shout, throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout
You know it makes me wanna shout
Throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout, c'mon now

Problems, complications and accusations
Dividing the nations and races of empty faces, a war is taking place (Armageddon)
No substitution for restitution, the only solution for peace
Is increasing the height of your spirituality (Wake up and choose to be awakened)

Masses of minds are shrouded, clouded visions (People living in a passive state of mind)
Deceptions and indecision, no faith or religion, how we're living

The clock is ticking, the end is coming, there'll be no warning (EOW)
But we live to see the dawn  (Hope)

How can we preach, when all we make this world to be
Is a living hell torturing our minds?
We all must unite, to turn darkness to light  (Come together as One)
And the love in our hearts will shine

We're disconnected from love, we're disrespecting each other (Disconnected from True Love)
Whatever happened to protecting each other
Poisoned your body and your soul for a minute of pleasure
But the damage that you've done is gonna last forever

Babies being born in the world already drug addicted and afflicted
Family values are contradicted, ashes to ashes and dust to dust
The pressure is building and I've had enough (It’s tIME for a CHA_GE)

I wanna shout, throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?
All this makes me wanna shout
You know it makes me wanna shout
Throw my hands up and shout
What's this madness all about?

All this makes me wanna shout, c'mon now (Michael has had enough -- have you?)
Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 09:56:00 AM by Sarahli
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We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

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SimPattyK

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Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 01:34:22 PM
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[...]
I don't post much but I will say all of you have taught me so much, not just Michael but ALL OF YOU...
[...]
Thank you to all of you for helping me see so much.  You are all so important to me, this whole experience is a class room full of knowledge.  I could go the school forever and never learn as much as I have learned here.  Take care and LOVE TO ALL OF YOU
sandythyme, your entire post was sooo.... CUTE is the best word that comes to my mind now!

And what I quoted above ^^ from your message is one of the most beautiful thoughts I've ever read on this forum!

God bless you and ... please post more often! ;)
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SimPattyK

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Re: TIAI January 21
January 22, 2012, 01:41:50 PM
@souza: great post!
Especially this final part! ;)

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[...]
Seeing that many opposition, attacks, ridicule and accusations even strengthen my faith that I am doing the right thing by allowing it on here, because it's history repeating. Only eight people were ready when the flood came, even less when brimstone came out of heaven at Sodom and Gomorra. I bet Noah was ridiculed and attacked, but we all know who had the last laugh. The more I study the Bible, the more I understand in this hoax, and the more peace of mind it gives me. Maybe there will only be a handful left at the end, possible, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong on this.
So to everyone that wants to leave because of this: I will not hold you down or try to convince you. Some I might miss, some I might miss like migraine, but if you have to go then just go.
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