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~Souza~Topic starter

TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 02:51:39 AM
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So...anyone knows how the real ark has to look like? The images TS linked to are different. I must say when I read in the Bible how the ark had to be made - I don't fully understand how is it supposed to look.
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~Souza~Topic starter

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 03:30:19 AM
This is what TS said about the ark back in December 2009, when he discussed the previous redirects:

Quote from: TS
Few if any objects in the history of mankind have been regarded with more sacredness and mystery, than the Ark of the Covenant.  And surely if there is any object on planet earth that God can and will control at the end of time, it is the Ark of the Covenant.  But the devil knows this, so he will have one or more counterfeit arks to confuse people.  Then if we want to be on the right side of the final battle between good and evil: we must STUDY the true Ark, and know it so well that none of the counterfeits will lead us astray {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.

So the last time TS linked to those images, he said to us we should STUDY the true Ark. I believe he means the REAL ark, and that it's not a parallel with MJ. So I decided to do this study a few weeks ago, and I will try to explain which one I think is the TRUE Ark, and why the others are counterfeit arks. I hope you will all be able to follow me, if not, please ask.

First of all I will post the part from the Bible where the blueprint of the Ark is given. I will refer back to parts of it as I continue.

Quote
And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.

And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, within and without shalt thou overlay it, and shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.

And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.

And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.

And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.

The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.

And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 25:10-22

Okay, so let's start debunking. I'll use the "Indiana Jones" ark, which is the most popular view of the Ark. My Bible teacher always reminds me that "the majority is usually wrong", which I believe is absolutely true. Here is a picture:



There are many things not quite right about this one, let's examine it.

It's hard to tell, but the measurements could be right. It's also overlayed with gold. But that's about it for accuracy. In some way, the curves on top were added, while there is no mention of that in scripture. Also, the 'crown round about' is on the mercy seat, while the instructions for the mercy seat weren't even started until 5 or 6 verses further on in the chapter.

The decorations on the sides seem to have been fabricated as well, because as far as we can see, the Ark was a smooth, golden box without any decorations except for the crown upon it.

Another point that has to be BS, is the placement of the golden staves to carry the Ark. The Bible tells us that the four rings are made of just pure gold. Imagine the weight of the Ark: strong heavy acacia wood, with gold on the outside and inside, plus a pure gold mercy seat with two cherubim, carrying the tables of STONE. That must have been a heavy box. Gold is a pretty soft metal, even more when it's pure (24K). That means that if you would lift it up with all the weight on those four golden rings, it will drop in a heartbeat, because the gold can never carry that much weight. But here is actually where the King James version left out an important part in Ex. 25:12. What they translated as 'corners', should have been 'feet' (Strong's H6471 - pa`am You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)
Since we know that the rings can't be on the side, because the rings couldn't carry the weight, the only logical explanation would be, that the staves would go UNDER the Ark, so that the staves (made of strong acacia wood, covered with gold) would carry the weight. The rings would merely keep the staves in the right place, so that the Ark couldn't get out of balance.

Then the most important part of all the fake arks: the cherubim. On nearly EVERY image of the Ark, the cherubim are placed ON the mercy seat. The Ark was God's throne on earth. Just like on the throne he sits upon in heaven, the Ark has covering cherubim:

"The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved."
(Psalm 99:1)

"O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth."
(Isaiah 37:16)

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever indicate that angels sat UPON God's throne. Satan wanted it, but was cast out of heaven for it. He was jealous of Jesus, who DID sit on the throne besides the Father. Satan was one of the highest angels, so if HE couldn't sit on God's throne, how would angels lower ranked than he be allowed?

"And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many ANGELS ROUND ABOUT the THRONE ..."
(Revelation 5:11)

"And all the ANGELS stood ROUND ABOUT the throne..."
(Revelation 7:11)

The only verse that says that the cherubim are upon the mercy seat, is Exodus 25:22 in the KJV. This is again simply a wrong translation, and should have been something like 'besides' (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login). Other translations are more accurate on this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Not only are the cherubim sitting on the throne in most of the images, they also leave little, if any room for God to actually SIT on the throne, which apparently was His intention:

"And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which [are] upon the ark of the testimony, of all [things] which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

There are only a handful of images that are pretty accurate, all of them leading to the same source, but that's for another time. I think most of you will be able to figure out what the true Ark looks like.

If you study the scriptures, use your common sense and compare the translations AND check the original words used, there is actually not much of a mystery in the Bible.
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_Anna_

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 03:53:34 AM
But what does all this Ark issue have to do with Michael? After all we are here for Michael, not to find historical or religious objects and study the real one. I honestly don't know what this has to do with him. 
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Suzy7

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 04:50:18 AM
Good post Souza, and I agree.
Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 12:43:03 AM by Suzy7
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Grace

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 07:55:17 AM

2.  The Ark of the Covenant – the Father (Exodus 25:10-22)


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v.10 – made of acacia wood
v.11 – it is overlaid with pure gold, inside and out
v.12 – 4 rings of gold, on four feet
v.13 – poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold
v.14-15 – poles to be inserted into the rings on the side, and to remain there
v.16 – the almighty testimony (the 10 words/commandments) placed into the ark!
v.17 – mercy seat of pure gold again
v. 18-20 – two cherubim of gold, of hammered work, wings above and overshadowing the mercy seat
v.21 -22 – it is here that the LORD will meet with the High Priest, giving commandments for the people of Israel
Note that the ark of the covenant is basically a wooden box made of acacia wood covered in gold.  The Mercy Seat is its special lid, and inside the ark are three items: the stone tablets of the 10 words; a jar of manna; and Aaron’s budding branch (the latter two placed there later: the 10 words being of greatest importance seeing that it was mentioned both in v.16 and v.21-22).
The Ark of the Covenant was to be placed inside the Holy of Holies – the Most Holy Place.  We will go to the details of the Most Holy Place when we come to consider the tabernacle structure.  Note for now the interesting detail: why is the Ark of the Covenant, the Table for Bread and the Golden Lampstand mentioned BEFORE the Tabernacle structure in Exodus 26?  Surely any architect would start with the structure, before going into the furniture of the structure?
The “Mercy Seat”, the gold used for the entire structure (made of wood) should also be considered as a throne – in 1 Samuel 4:4 the language used is that the ark of the covenant is enthroned between the cherubim.  No doubt, this ark also symbolised the throne of the Father in heaven – c.f. Daniel 7:9-10 and Revelation 4:1-3.  The former book speaks of the Ancient of Days, whose throne was flaming with fire, and wheels were all ablaze.  The latter letter speaks of the throne in heaven where a rainbow, resembling an emerald encircled the throne.  Although the throne was spoken of in two different manners, the lake of fire coming out from the throne is akin to the lake of fire referred to in Revelation 20:15.  However, the throne of the Father in heaven, if speaking of the covenant rainbow established after the global diluvian punishment, then the message spoken of is that of peace and eternity, rather than contention and eternal hell.
Then there is Isaiah 37:16 who speaks of the LORD who dwells between the cherubim; and Ezekiel 1:4-5, 26-28 speaks of four living creatures and the throne of God:
 <blockquote>4As I looked, behold</blockquote>,(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) a stormy wind came(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) out of the north, and a great cloud, with(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire,(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) as it were gleaming metal.[You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login] 5And from the midst of it came the likeness of(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) four living creatures…
26And above the expanse over their heads there was(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) the likeness of a throne,(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) in appearance(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) like sapphire;[You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login] and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance. 27And(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) there was brightness around him.[You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login] 28Like the appearance of(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around. So these four living creatures had something of the likeness of a throne above them, and seated above the throne is no mere human (though he had a human appearance) – but this man was wearing gleaming metal, with the appearance of fire enclosed all around, and brightness around him; like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud (the rainbow), so was the appearance of the brightness.  If you are still confused about this man who was sitting on the throne:
 <blockquote>Such was the appearance of the likeness o</blockquote>f(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it,(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking. (continuing v.28 ) It is therefore quite clear that we should consider the meaning of the ark of the covenant, on which is the Mercy Seat lid, to be considered as a throne imitating the throne in heaven.  But weren’t we speaking of two cherubim?  Indeed: but we need not go into the detail now when the other two angels were added, and the significant parallels between the four angels surrounding the throne of God in Ezekiel (and Revelation) – check out 1 Chronicles 28 to make meaning of the chariot angels and the cherubim.
Then the next question comes: why make the ark out of wood, covered in gold?  Firstly, the significance of gold is that of royalty and divinity (Matthew 2:1; Revelation 1:12-13; 21:18-21).  But this ark isn’t made of real gold – it is only painted with gold.  I think the significance is great here:  it is basically saying that the ark, in itself, is just a temporary structure.  The gold is just on the surface: it is only symbolic.  What is the make-up of the ark though?  WOOD – the wood which speaks of the cross.  Thus, the meaning of gold-covering the wood is simple: it is that of the royalty, painted over the heart of the item which is made of the wood prophesying the cross of Christ.  So also, the cross is at the centre of our lives: and on the outside, we are painted with the golden colours of royalty when we are clothed with righteousness.  I’ve heard other interpretations of the acacia wood as that of Christ’s humanity; and the gold paint as that of Christ’s divinity.  The acacia wood = earthly life (grown from the soil on earth); the golden paint = prophetic visions of Christ as Eternal and Divine Son.  I personally favour the interpretation of the wood speaking of the cross of Christ, which undergirds not only the ark, but much of the entire tabernacle.
The function of the Mercy Seat above all speaks of its significance; in Exodus 25:22, when God says that he will meet with humanity above the cover, between the two cherubim: that place of meeting and atonement, the lid of the Ark is therefore rightly labeled as the mercy seat.  The Mercy Seat “symbolically ‘absorbed’ the judgment of God so that there could be a meeting with humanity” (Tom Parsons).  This is because the ark of the covenant is a living paradox: on one hand, the Mercy Seat was placed inside the Holy of Holies. 

If someone wanted to go into the Most Holy Place it also meant death, because of the separation presented by the curtain between the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place.

 That is why, in later laws given, that once a year the Mercy Seat was sprinkled with blood to bring peace and atonement, explaining Parsons conclusion of the Mercy Seat being rightly named as such. And only by the blood sacrifice on the Mercy Seat can one present the apparent paradox of God accepting sinners into the throne room of the Father!  Romans 3:25 displays Paul’s use of this Mercy Seat imagery to explain how the Mercy Seat absorbs God’s wrath.


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Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 08:02:33 AM by Grace
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
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MaryK

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Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 08:07:28 AM
So it´s supposed to look more like this:



This is based on the account/description of Ron Wyatt who claimed to have found/seen the Ark in a cave in the North of Jerusalem.
He also claimed to have found remains of the blood of Jesus that had dripped down onto the Ark from the crucifixion site right above the cave.

I really don´t know....just trying to contribute something to performing the task.
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You and I were never separate

It's just an illusion

Wrought by the magical lens of Perception



Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 09:17:36 AM
MaryK - those are interesting cheribums on that ark. If it's true it's definitely not the picture of a cheribum that I have in my mind.

I find this all really interesting too but am a still confused, like Ann, as to what this has to do with Michael.

Blessings
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I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

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gwynned

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 10:00:58 AM
Well, this may be way off point, but in doing research I found that the Hebrew word Aron is used  Is it an accident that this is how Elvis misspelled his middle name Aaron on his grave? 

Is the Ark merely symbolic or is it real.  In this article it appears that the Ark is symbolic of the heart.

When we make that offering of our heart, we offer to God the best that we have, and God comes there and sanctifies that place.  This is why this chapter in Exodus continues:

    And this is the offering that you shall take from them: gold, silver, and copper; blue, purple, and crimson wool; linen and goat hair; ram skins dyed red, tachash skins, and acacia wood; oil for lighting, spices for the anointing oil and for the incense; shoham stones and filling stones for the ephod and for the choshen. And they shall make Me a sanctuary and I will dwell in their midst...

These items are all symbolic.

This becomes more interesting when we understand that the Aron is described as “Aron kodesh,” which means holy vessel or holy sanctuary. Kodesh or Kadosh means holy or sacred.

The word Ark comes from Aron Kodosh. That is, when the Aron is made pure, it becomes kadosh, holy.  Thus to make the Ar-k, we have to make our Aron holy, pure.

What this tells us is that we ourselves are the Ark.  You and me.  We are the vessel. God wants to fill us, but only if our sanctuary is made pure.

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Coco

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 10:11:49 AM
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Is the Ark merely symbolic or is it real.  In this article it appears that the Ark is symbolic of the heart.

When I read about the ark, its description seemed a little too detailed to render it only symbolic. I'm sure it does have symbolism. Perhaps, I'm wrong. Just thinking aloud.

I wonder what it is about what Gina wrote, that made TS redirect us to it...
I keep reading it, over and over. What does TS want us to understand?

Quote
The Book of Exodus gives detailed instructions on how the Ark is to be constructed. It is to be 2½ cubits in length, 1½ in breadth, and 1½ in height (as 21⁄2×11⁄2×11⁄2 royal cubits or 1.31×0.79×0.79 m). Then it is to be plated entirely with gold, and a crown or molding of gold is to be put around it. Four rings of gold are to be attached—two on each side—and through these rings staves of shittim-wood overlaid with gold for carrying the Ark are to be inserted; and these are not to be removed. A golden cover, adorned with golden cherubim, is to be placed above the Ark. The Ark is finally to be placed behind a veil (Parochet), a full description of which is also given.[12]

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Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 10:38:47 AM by Coco
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Dontwalkaway

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Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 10:32:12 AM
VoicefortheSilent and Anna, 

Like Suzy7 said, the fake ark can be used to deceive people.  This is related to Michael because he is trying to "heal the world".    TPTB know how easy it is to "lead the masses" by using lies !!!!!!!!   Think about it, the majority of people think that everything on the news is REAL !!!!   That's why we have to study and have evidence.   

LOVE          bearhug

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_Anna_

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 10:43:49 AM
Actually the Ark is not the only subject about which lies are told. There must be thousands more situations like this but  we are here to understand what happened with Michael. I  don't see a connection between the Ark and Michael.
 
Does this look like we are guided to waste our time and this silence on finding which ark is real? No one managed to get to a conclusion since it got lost 2000 years ago. Are we gonna manage to do it? And again, what does this have to do with the real reason why we're here for.
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Dontwalkaway

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Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 10:44:22 AM
MaryK,  This doesn't look like it because " the wings are not above and overshadowing the mercy seat."

One set of wings is down and the others are on the side.  Also, the cherubims look like soldiers ?   

Does anyone know what the cherubims are supposed to look like ?

I think the wings have to be up but not blocking the mercy seat.  Like Souza pointed out, there has to be room between the cherubim, in order to have a mercy seat. 


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"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

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RK

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 11:02:55 AM
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So it´s supposed to look more like this:



This is based on the account/description of Ron Wyatt who claimed to have found/seen the Ark in a cave in the North of Jerusalem.
He also claimed to have found remains of the blood of Jesus that had dripped down onto the Ark from the crucifixion site right above the cave.

I really don´t know....just trying to contribute something to performing the task.
I would also go with this as being an acurate image of what the ark of the covenant looked like. Why are we studying these types of things on a hoax death site? So that day will not take us unaware. The temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt, where the Dome of the Rock presently stands. I have read that they estimate it will take them two and a half years to complete it. Ron Wyatt said that the Israeli Government sealed up his findings until the right time because of the trouble that would ensue. In Souza's post, she brings up the fact that satan wanted to sit on God's throne. He gets his chance....the abomination of desolations........will be when the antichrist seats himself up in the rebuilt Jewish temple to proclaim himself to be God.
And the ark of the covenant will be part of this scenario.
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SEHF

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 11:18:49 AM
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bec

Re: TIAI December 26
December 26, 2011, 11:27:15 AM
The ark in Indiana Jones contained a force that melted humans if they looked at it. Only if they tightly shut their eyes and averted their faces to the site of it would their lives be spared. It mattered not if they were the ones to tamper with it or not. The force had no mercy. All would die... unless they closed their eyes.
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