911 CALL NUMEROLOGY - 12:20, OR 12:21??

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911 CALL NUMEROLOGY - 12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:19:44 PM
Introduction

This is not level 7 (this information will be of some value, though, when it’s time for level 7).  Also, this is a fairly long and detailed post, much like the Updates.  However, this is not really an update either, because it is not new territory; instead, this is just further documentation to establish what I have already said about the numerology and 911 call timing.  The questions and objections have been raised primarily in the TIAI September 27 (Official Trial Thread); however, the answers and details are too long for that thread, so I have started a whole new thread for this discussion.

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Outline

Introduction
     Outline
     Just a Few Examples
     Even If “TS Is Fake”

Timing Discrepancies
     Timing From Dona Norris
     Timing From the Phone Call
     Timing From Steve Ruda
     Timing From Richard Senneff
     Timing From Alberto Alvarez

7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
     #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

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Just a Few Examples

Here are just a few out of many posts, on the subject of the 911 call (12:20 or 12:21?).  I have not given any user names here, because it is not my intent to focus on the errors of any particular person; instead, I want to focus on the concepts which are wrong (regardless of who wrote them).

“Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 …”

 “This clearily [clearly] shows the call wasnt placed at 12.21.04 as TS insistes [insists] it was. He said the button was pressed at 12.21.04 and NOT earlier, to be sure its not 12.20. This means this theory falls. Together with the others tied to it.”

 “Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys [destroys] a lot of ‘proof’ imho.........”

And this post is in answer to the above question: “‘cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!   I’m sorry guys!   Time will bear me out...  poor TS!”

Unfortunately, even after nearly two and half years, some still have not learned their lesson: “Just because it’s in print, doesn’t mean it’s the gospel”—and that INCLUDES things in print shown at court trials!  After all, do we really believe everything that was shown in court during the 2005 trial?  And if not, then why are some so gullible and accept without question everything stated in this 2011 trial?  Actually, when you have really learned your lesson well, you will question EVERYTHING that you have been taught from a child (news, science, history, religion, etc)—not merely the things which are directly related to MJ and/or this hoax.

Some eagerly accept everything that they see and hear in this trial, without thinking for themselves and questioning the reliability of the evidence presented.  So let’s do some REAL investigation, rather than slapping an “investigation” label on that which is actually nothing better than assuming it’s impossible for documents to be falsified.

I do not make the above statements to those who are sincerely asking for clarification about the 911 call timing.  Rather, it is long-overdue and relatively mild rebuke (mild in comparison to what is deserved) for those who have failed time and again to debunk anything from TS; and yet when something else comes along, they can’t resist the burning urge to try it again—and expose their own errors one more time!  Their failures only increase their itching desire to find something that they can pounce upon, and claim the victory before their eyes have even had enough time to focus on what they have pounced upon!  Will they ever learn?

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Even If “TS Is Fake” …

Have you ever noticed that many non-believers would rather have MJ dead, than admit that they’re wrong (and we are right)?  What kind of so-called “love” for MJ is that—rather have him dead, than alive???  But a similar attitude can be seen even among some of those who do not think MJ is dead; I’m sure that you can see the parallel, if you want to, without me spelling it out.

So for the sake of those who are desperately wishing that they could disprove TS, and the very clear messages in the numerology: let’s pretend for a bit that TS is indeed fake, and see whether all the other numerology collapses on this one point alone (the timing of the 911 call).

Well, these 9 categories below would still be true (from my $999 reward):
d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)
e. 77 days from “death” to 9-9-09 [autopsy finalized on 9-9-09, etc]
f. 7 days from “burial” to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)
g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999
h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998
i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999
j. 777 + 999 = 1776
k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, ... 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111
l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)

Furthermore, even if there never was any 911 call at any time whatsoever—yet we still have several things to show 1221, and the end of the world theme:
a. MJ beliefs in Revelation—the 144,000, the new earth (old world must end before any new earth)
b. the “four years” in TII (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)
c. the 2012 movie (Sony movie, released right after TII, set in the same four years 2009-2012, the “Jackson” name, they thought he was dead but he was not, and many other parallels discussed already)
d. the FBI files were 333 pages, planned release on 12-21 (2009)
e. The retweet of Paris, about 2012 and BAM

Additionally, even if TS is totally fake, yet we STILL have to face the fact that the 911 call IS associated with 12:21—regardless of HOW it was done!  It’s the time that has been reported by the media everywhere.  And 1221 was also the only number circled by Senneff on his sheet, as if it had more importance than 1226 and other numbers {1:30, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Last but not least: the $999 reward; after more than a year, nobody has even come within a thousand miles of collecting it.  Why not, if TS and the numerology is so easy to debunk???  Notice above that I left out the first three (a, b, & c) from the $999 reward list, because a, b, & c referred to the 911 call (but now I am including them below).  Yet only one of these three has anything to do with the seconds—and even that one says nothing of how it was done.  So if this was a big blunder by TS: then just step forward with your math, showing it was coincidence (less than one-in-a-million), and collect your $999 reward—what are you waiting for?!?

a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21 [regardless of HOW that timing was accomplished!]
b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7
c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7

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Timing Discrepancies

Now it’s time to take a very detailed examination of the timing, and see once again who doesn’t know what they are talking about—TS, or the critics of TS??  The fact is that there are things which don’t add up in what we have been told about the 911 call timing (contradictions, just like everything else in this circus).  Therefore, we should look for indications of what is real and what is fake; it is of course possible that it’s all fake, but it is not possible that it’s all real.

To save space, I will use the following abbreviations:
BHPD = Beverly Hills Police Department
LAFD = Los Angeles Fire Department
FS71 = Fire Station #71

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Timing From Dona Norris





The above picture (identified by PPP) was explained by Norris as follows:
12:20:18; TK009 = Trunk line #9 was captured by the incoming call
12:20:21; RI = Ringing, the call started ringing at the console
12:20:26; CO005 = Connect, operator pushed button to answer the call (note: for the incoming call to ring and be answered, it took eight seconds—in an emergency??)
12:20:50; TT009 = Transfer Through, operator pushed the transfer button (to LAFD)
12:21:03; DI005 = Disconnect, operator pushed the hang up button
12:21:04; RLS = Released, the call was no longer in the BHPD trunking system
00:00:46; DUR = Duration of call at BHPD, from 12:20:18 to 12:21:04 (note: 40+ seconds seems awfully slow, for merely transferring a call that is a life and death emergency!)

If you listen carefully to Dona’s testimony, you will see that she is not the operator who took the 911 call {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rRtsRVQiRU}.  Surely, the descriptions that Dona gave are not too complicated for a 911 operator to understand, and explain in court.  Then why wasn’t the actual operator called to the stand, instead of Dona?  Even if the operator worked a different job now, she could still be a witness in this case (others have had a change in job since 6-25-09, and yet they testified).  Since Dona did not actually take the call, she could easily report the above timeline with a straight face—even if it was fabricated.  And if it was not fabricated: then why wasn’t the audio made public back in June 2009, when the LAFD 911 audio was made public?

Also, why doesn’t the latitude/longitude on PPP match the LAFD call screen, or the cell tower list?
BHPD (PPP): 34.08167100, -118.414228 (Beverly Hills Hotel)
LAFD call screen: 34.08118800, -118.425086 (100 N Carolwood)
Cell towers: http://www.city-data.com/towers/lmobile-Beverly-Hills-California.html#ixzz1bjAH4jKU

The following evidence indicates that BHPD timing is wrong (possibly even fabricated):
•   Total time (40+ seconds) is unreasonably long for merely transferring an emergency call
•   The actual BHPD 911 operator did not testify
•   BHPD audio was not made public in June 2009, when the LAFD audio was made public
•   Lat/lon on PPP does not match lat/lon on LAFD call screen or cell tower list
•   LAFD timing does not match BHPD timing (which will be shown extensively below); and LAFD timing seems much more reliable (for all of the above reasons, plus we know that LAFD actually did respond with emergency vehicles and paramedics—so their timing is probably real)
•   The testimony and cell records of Alberto Alvarez

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Timing From the Phone Call

For the sake of reference, and timing calculations, the following is a list from the 911 call audio played in court; the times are taken from the video (which starts at 0:03, so subtract 3 seconds for actual times).   Notice the BHPD portion is about half a minute long, and the LAFD portion is two minutes long.

0:03, BHPD talking begins (notice that the audio quality is worse than the LAFD part)
0:28, beeps in transfer process
0:33, short ring
0:35, LAFD answers
0:42 to 0:49, 100 North Carolwood Drive, Los Angeles California, 90077
0:57 to 1:01, 909-273-4846
1:04 to 1:12, a gentleman needs help, he’s not breathing
1:14 to 1:17, 50 years old sir, (“50” repeated by dispatcher)
1:18 to 1:27, unconscious, not breathing
1:28, begin discussion on patient location (floor versus bed)
2:29, less than a mile away, be there soon
2:35, end
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg366005#msg366005;
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news#from=embediframe}.

Also, in order to make the events being discussed very clear, I am going to use three different words that have very distinct meanings: alarm (FS71 is alerted that there is an emergency), asphalt (FS71 trucks are rolling on the pavement), arrival (FS71 has reached the location of the emergency).

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Timing From Steve Ruda

You really don’t have to look very far, to find a timing discrepancy between BHPD and LAFD.  The LA Fire Captain Steve Ruda said the following—and it’s even on video: “On June 25, 2009, the Los Angeles Fire Department responded to the 100 block of Carolwood, at 12:21 and 18 seconds.”
{0:32, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4;
http://tinyurl.com/cdog56k}.

Why didn’t Ruda say “12:21 and four seconds”????  Or better yet, why didn’t he say: “12:20 and fifty seconds” (the approximate time LAFD received the call, according to Dona Norris)?  Surely, when Ruda said “responded”, he did not mean the time when FS71 got the alarm—because that was not until 12:22 (which we will see over and over again).  So according to Ruda, 12:21:18 is the time when the LAFD started responding to the call; that would be the time when the call came in to the LAFD.  But Ruda’s statement here is not the only thing that we have to go by; everything from the LAFD, as well as the 911 audio itself, all testify in favor of Ruda’s 12:21:18 timing.

The alarm that came into FS71 had four categories of information (see the call screen, and also exhibit #43): address, phone, 50 year old male, not breathing.  All four of these categories were communicated to the LAFD exactly 42 seconds into the call (1:17 minus 0:35, LAFD start time, equals 0:42).  At that point, the information would be transmitted to FS71 “almost instantaneously” {2:47, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Now if you start at 12:21:18, and then add these 42 seconds, you come to exactly—12:22, the time of the alarm at FS71!  Since “almost” is not quite instantaneously, perhaps it was actually 12:22:03 or 12:22:05 by the time the alarm actually hit FS71; this poses no problem, because the alarm time is always given as 12:22, but never the seconds.

However, if the LAFD call started no later than 12:20:58 (the Norris timeline), then 42 seconds later the alarm would hit FS71 at 12:21:40—not 12:22!  Was the LAFD dispatch doing cartwheels for about half a minute, before getting around to kicking the alarm at FS71??  Sure glad it wasn’t a real emergency!!

Moving on: in harmony with common sense (no time wasted on cartwheels), as well as the above calculation of 42 seconds into the LAFD call—there are numerous reports on the internet, that Ruda said the call “took 42 seconds to process”
{http://statter911.com/search/sosua; http://statter911.com/2009/06/26/quick-takes-248/; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5653140/Michael-Jackson-the-final-days-and-how-TMZ.com-scooped-the-world.html; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5647150/Michael-Jackson-his-final-hours.html; https://elgg.leeds.ac.uk/_rss/individual.php?feed=321&feed_offset=4070}.

This 42 seconds would not be the duration of the phone call, because that was two minutes.  And the 42 seconds would not be the time from alarm to asphalt, because that time is given by Ruda below as “within 60 seconds” (not “42 seconds”, or “about 40 seconds”, or “within 50 seconds”, etc).

“On June 25, 2009, at 12:21 [he doesn’t give the seconds here, so it could be 12:21:18] p.m., 911 operators transferred a request for emergency care to a Los Angeles firefighter dispatcher. … When a call for emergency care sounded in quarters [the alarm], Engine 71 … responded within 60 seconds [time from alarm to asphalt]. … The companies from Fire Station 71 responded in three minutes and 17 seconds [time from alarm to arrival]. … This response was on-scene at 1225 hours.”
{http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-162/issue-10/departments/what-we_learned/lessons-from-the-michael.html; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=3333.0; http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-things-f8/steve-ruda-article-on-fireengineeringcom-t3824.htm}.

Let’s pause here to verify that 3:17 is the time from alarm to arrival, and not the time from asphalt to arrival (not the time actually on the road).  According to Ruda, the trucks were rolling around 12:23:00+/- (“within 60 seconds” of the 12:22:03+/- alarm); and 3:17 after 12:23:00 would be 12:26:17+/-, yet Ruda said they were “on-scene at 1225 hours”.

Furthermore, 3:17 is unreasonably long to be enroute from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood—especially in emergency vehicles.  Essentially the entire route is on a 4-lane road (W Sunset); and the only signals are right turns, which would pose little to no delay—even if the lights were red (especially for emergency vehicles that can go through red lights).  Around noon on Thursday (6-25-09) would not be the time of day for rush-hour traffic.  Google Maps lists the drive from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood as 0.9 miles, and MapQuest lists it as 0.89 miles.
{http://tinyurl.com/7ojhrhh}

If 3:17 is the time from asphalt to arrival, the average speed would be 16.4 MPH  {http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html}.  This is unrealistically slow, especially for emergency vehicles.  But if 3:17 is the time from alarm to arrival, then the time enroute would be roughly 2:20—and the average speed would be 23.1 MPH.  At first, this may also appear to be too slow; however, keep in mind that the real speed may vary from stopped briefly (at a light or something) to about double the average (46 MPH).  This is a reasonable speed range for W Sunset; but doubling 16.4 MPH would only be about 33 MPH, and not realistic.  Unless there was a freak accident or something, and all four lanes were blocked (causing a delay and/or an alternate route), 3:17 from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood is way too slow for emergency vehicles.

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Timing From Richard Senneff

Now it’s time to establish the 12:22 alarm.  In the top right corner of the call screen, you will see 12:22 (see photo below, under possibility #3); this is the alarm time.  It can’t be the call time, because that was before 12:22; and it’s not the asphalt time, because before they even hit the asphalt the information on the computer screen comes in automatically from the LAFD call center {5:50, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJWwvUpqhE}.

The call screen does not give the seconds for the alarm time.  Since this is computer readout digital time, it would not be rounded up from ~12:21:45 to 12:22; even 12:21:59 would be listed on the screen as 12:21.  So we know that the alarm came in at least 12:22:00 (and probably a few seconds later).  The alarm time also comes into FS71 printed on the teletype (exhibit #43); and it is also given in four digits as 12:22 without the seconds {3:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Gourjian: “Mr. Senneff, just to clarify, when you first got the call to respond to Carolwood—what time was that at?”  Senneff: “When I first got the call at the station was 12:22.” {13:09, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My4vQZvnaNo}.

Senneff: “The dispatch time, when we get the alarm at the station at 12:22. … that’s the time the alarm comes into the station.”  Brazil: “12:22?”  Senneff: “That’s correct.” {3:17, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Brazil: “So 12:22 the call comes into the station, and what’s the next thing that you do, in response to that information?”  Senneff: “We grab the teletype, get in the, uh, apparatus [ambulance], and head out the doors.” {8:45, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJWwvUpqhE; see also 8:10}.

Brazil: “What time did you arrive at the Carolwood residence?”  Senneff: “12:26.” {7:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Gourjian: “And what time did you arrive at the Carolwood residence?”  Senneff: “12:26 I believe.”  Gourjian: “Okay.  And what time did you arrive upstairs by Mr. Jackson?”  Senneff: “Less than a minute.”  Gourjian: “Okay.  So approximately 12:27?”  Senneff: “Yes.” {2:26, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQJV4at5heA}.

Finally, all three of these same times are listed on his F-902M form: “Time of Alarm, 1222”; “Time on Scene, 1226”; “Time at Patient, 1227”
{13:30 to 14:30, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9JMQ40VYN4;
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/2011/10/doc-paramedics-report/; http://lafdtraining.org/ists/books/bk05.pdf, page 14}.

In case you are wondering why Ruda said “on-scene at 1225 hours”, but Senneff listed 12:26 as the arrival time, there is a simple explanation.  The fire truck was driving ahead of the ambulance, and parked on the street (at 12:25; Ruda was not there, but got the info from their records).  Senneff was in the ambulance; it was not only behind the fire truck, but it had to deal with the extra time to go through the gate, and park inside.  So it is reasonable for the ambulance arrival to be roughly half a minute later.

Overview of LAFD timing:
12:21:18 LAFD “responded” to incoming 911 call (Ruda)
12:22:03+/- alarm, about 42 seconds later (per Ruda, also call timing 1:17 minus 0:35)
12:23:00+/- asphalt (Ruda, “within 60 seconds”)
12:25:20+/- E71 arrival, parked on street (Ruda, “on-scene at 1225”)
12:26:00+/- RA71 through gate, parked inside (Senneff 12:26, possibly rounded)
12:26:50+/- at patient (Senneff, “less than a minute”, and “approximately” 12:27)

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Timing From Alberto Alvarez





The above picture (exhibit #26) shows the 911 call at 12:20, not 12:21.  Shall we take this record as more reliable than the LAFD records?  And if so, then why are there four outgoing calls listed at 12:18—just one of which is 88 seconds?  Several hoax investigators have already noticed this discrepancy {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg362274.html#msg362274}.  If the next to last line should read 12:19 (instead of 12:18), then maybe the last line should read 12:21 (instead of 12:20).

Also notice that exhibit #26 here does not show the seconds; 12:20:18 is nowhere to be found, except on the unreliable BHPD printout (PPP).  This means that even if exhibit #26 above is accurate, Alvarez could’ve pushed the button so close to 12:21:00 that it actually registered as 12:20:59 with Verizon (and therefore 12:20 on exhibit #26); but it takes a few seconds to process and route the call, therefore it registered as 12:21:04 at the receiving end.

Yet another major problem, with the 12:20:18 theory, is the amount of time needed to accomplish all of the things which Alvarez said that he did—between the 88 second 12:18 call (ending ~12:19:45, since there were two other 12:18 calls before this one), and the 911 call supposedly only about 30 seconds later (see picture below).  Many have also noticed this discrepancy; and it was so obvious, that it was even mentioned during the trial and the closing arguments!  How many of the discrepancies that we have found ever made it to court?  Almost none!  Yet this one did; so it must be an extremely glaring inconsistency, and/or there is another reason why this is getting attention.





“According to Alvarez’s phone records he only had about 30 seconds to perform all the events (listed above by Chernoff) after he ended the call with Amir. The DA is trying to prove that Alvarez did all these things simultaneously, so that it would all fit into the 30 seconds time frame. Chernoff highly questions all this during recross examination.” {http://this-is-al-most-it.blogspot.com/2011/10/definitive-proof-ts-is-bs.html}.  Actually, during his closing argument, Chernoff went beyond highly questioning it; he said that it was just plain “impossible” {3:40; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iADy3WuWOMw; see also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21TB6_qZSU}.

Finally, the testimony from Alvarez himself, at the preliminary hearing, should set the record straight.  This was before any alleged BHPD records surfaced, and at the time Alvarez was unaware of any call made at 12:20; he said “12:21 or 12:22”, not 12:20 or 12:21—and this was right after reviewing “his phone records this morning” when he “saw the time there as well”!!!  So even IF there was any uncertainty in his mind, it would be whether the call was placed after 12:21 (12:22)—not whether it was placed before 12:21 (12:20).

“After he sets everything down he calls 911 at approximately 12:21 or 12:22. He does state he did hear his phone call reported on TV and the time was also reported on tv. He also states that he and the prosecution did review his phone records this morning (today) and saw the time there as well. He is asked if he spoke to more than one person on the 911 call and he only recalls the Operator.” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/2011/10/preliminary-hearing-day-2-%e2%80%93-alberto-alvarez/; http://teammichaeljackson.com/p-v-cm-jan-5th-albert-alvarez}.

Please notice that the preliminary hearing was not someone from the LAFD discussing what time the call was transferred to them; no, it was Alvarez discussing phone records and what time the call was originally made.  The following phrase has zero hits on Google (be sure to use quote marks): “Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:20”; and currently there are about 9,000 hits for this phrase, all referring back to the preliminary hearing: “Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:21
{http://tinyurl.com/7mdqou6}.

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7 Possibilities

Now I’m going to propose 7 different possible scenarios—none of which would mean that 12:21 was not part of the planned numerology and timing, OR that the statements I have previously made about the 911 timing prove that TS is fake.  So if I can come up with 7 possibilities—and my opposers did not even come up with a single possibility, that fits with what I’ve said in the past—then the real problem is not a lack of accuracy in what I have said, the real problem is that they are desperately trying to find something to disprove TS.  Why?  Because it is human nature; many people are too proud to admit that they made a mistake, just like so-called “fans” who would rather have MJ dead than admit that they are wrong (and the hoax investigators are right).

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#1. The 911 Calls Were Staged

No actual phone calls were placed to either the BHPD or LAFD; the calls were staged (much like the ambulance photo).  In this case, the information on the call screen was fabricated.  My description of the 911 call was describing not what literally happened, but rather what the information on the screen was designed to represent (made to look like someone was waiting for 12:21 to make the call).

Considering the above possibility: notice that there was one rather small two-letter word in Update 4c, which carries a rather big meaning.  “So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect …” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=7124.0}.

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#2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport

For this scenario, I’m going to go on the idea that TS is actually MJ.  But please do not take this and run with it; I am merely showing that if MJ himself could make the same statements about the 911 call, and still not be a fake—then just as much or more could someone other than MJ make these same statements, and yet not be a fake. 

What if MJ had already gone to the airport, before the 911 call was made; he was not there in person, to observe what actually happened.  Someone at the house not in on it was urging that someone call 911, and by 12:20 Alvarez felt that he could not delay any longer without raising too much suspicion; so he called 911 a little early.  In spite of the early call, the transfer to LAFD was not completed until 12:21; and this provided an opportunity for good old TMZ to still report the intended time, 12:21 {http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/}.  Other media copied TMZ’s report, and so 12:21 became the time of the 911 call reported almost everywhere.  Nevertheless, this scenario does not explain the discrepancies in timing given by BHPD and LAFD, etc.

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#3. ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)

Alvarez called 911 immediately at 12:21:00; BHPD at answered at 12:21:04.  Within a reasonable time of 14 seconds (not a long delay of 46 seconds): BHPD determined the emergency needed LAFD (not police), and transferred to LAFD by 12:21:18 (as Ruda said).  In this case, both the original call and the transfer occurred during the minute of 12:21; therefore, this ensured that the media would report 12:21—regardless of whether they reported the original call, or the time LAFD got the call (and would be another good reason for starting the call exactly at 12:21, and not 15 or 30 seconds later).





In support of this scenario (see picture above), the call screen says “ORIGINAL W911 [wireless 911] INFO (12:21:04) …”; and then there are three lines of info about the ORIGINAL Alvarez call, but not info about the BHPD or the call transfer (that info was in the previous lines above).

This leads to the question of why the time “12:21:04” is even listed on the call screen.  For what purpose is this information provided to the FS71 paramedics?  If it’s merely the time when BHPD trunk line 009 was released (open for a new 911 call to come into BHPD on that trunk line, as Dona testified): why would FS71 paramedics care a whit about that time, why would it be on their call screen?  Would this information help them know what action to take in an emergency?

Wouldn’t it be far more important for the paramedics to know the time when the emergency call first came in at the BHPD?  What if BHPD had an emergency of their own (and that can happen), and it took them three minutes to transfer the call to LAFD?  Wouldn’t FS71 want to know how long since the emergency started, so that they could assess things like how long the house has been burning (in the case of a fire)?  This is the only time on the call screen with seconds included (12:21:04).  Why is the only time given in seconds also the only time on the screen which doesn’t even need to be there at all (if it’s really nothing other than BHPD trunk line release time)—much less have the exact seconds??  The paramedics really don’t even need to know when the LAFD call center first received the call (much less any BHPD trunk release time); yet even if they did need that info, for some reason, it would be about 12:20:55 (if Norris times are correct)—not 12:21:04!

However, if the timing from BHPD is either intentionally fabricated or some huge mistake—and 12:21:04 is the time when the original call first came in to BHPD—then we have a very good reason why it is listed on the FS71 call screen, and even listed in seconds.  The exact time (including seconds) listed on the call screen helps the firefighters and paramedics to understand just how long the emergency situation has been in progress, which in turn helps them determine how to respond to the emergency.  This would also explain why 12:21:04 is listed on the call screen as “ORIGINAL” call info (not BHPD transfer info)!

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#4. ”The Caller” Was Not Alvarez

Alvarez did not actually call “911”, since it was not a real emergency; instead, he used a different number to call someone at the BHPD who was in on it.  This key person at BHPD transferred Alvarez’s call to LAFD at 12:21:04; and I was actually referring to him (not Alvarez) when I said “the caller”.  Do you think it was an accident that I said “the caller”, and not “Alvarez”?  In this scenario, the “911 operator” would refer to an operator taking emergency calls at the LAFD dispatch center (not someone at BHPD).

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#5. The Beverly Hills Hotel

This scenario is essentially the same as #4, except for the following.  Nobody from the BHPD was in on it at the time, and no calls went through them—either on regular lines, or on a cell phone.  This would therefore reduce the chances of any police showing up at the scene who were not in on the hoax; and it would also reduce the chances of the situation being broadcast on police radios—which paparazzi could hear on their police scanners, and show up at Carolwood, making it more difficult for Chris to get the magic picture.  So instead of calling BHPD, Alvarez called someone waiting at the Beverly Hills Hotel; this person then transferred the call on to LAFD at 12:21:04, much like the description above in #4.

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#6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly

Alvarez called the LAFD dispatch (at 12:21:04), using a direct number not 911.  In this scenario, there was no transfer process either through the BHPD or through someone at the Beverly Hills Hotel.  Like #5, this option also keeps the BHPD out of it, and reduces the people who need to be in on it.  The time from 12:21:04 (call screen data) to 12:21:18 (Ruda) could be a transfer from whoever first answered at LAFD, to a specific person planned in advance who was in on it at LAFD (and same for #4 & #5, above).

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#7. Think For Yourself

Just like everything else in this illusion, no explanation seems to answer all of the questions.  Nevertheless, think for yourself; and with the information that I have provided here, see if you can come up with a scenario that I have not specifically described—there is at least one more possibility (and probably several more).

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Which One of the 7?

Finally, does it really matter which one of these above 7 options is the correct one?  And even if I told you which one, how could I prove it?  Just because I know the answer to something does not mean I say the answer; I normally limit my statements to things that I can back up pretty solidly (except of course the things that I’ve said jokingly).

Also, a magician does not give away all of his secrets.  Again, I am not saying that TS is MJ; I’m just saying that if the MaJician himself could have some secrets about how it was done, and yet not be fake, then just as much or more someone who is not MJ.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 11:50:17 AM by ~Souza~ »

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:27:16 PM
You did not earn a stroopwafel with that  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where's the rest?

Offline Sarahli

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:29:11 PM
Hello TS!

7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
    #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

Is it this one?  lolol/
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Offline diggyon

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:31:12 PM
His TS,

we were all waiting for your commets lately.

Okay I guess no 2 is correct because Jermaine's slip up about the air port was very obvious....

Blessings
Together we are strong

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln

Thank you Michael for letting me discover the truth!

I lost the bet, Sarahli won it! ! ! loool


Offline Elsa

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:37:35 PM
TS, isn't 7 the answer to everything? 

Offline BeTheChange

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:38:03 PM


Maybe he's having lunch? lol  Or his computer died?  bangbang

I'll patiently await the rest of the non-level, non-update post lol....but I'm riveted.

With L.O.V.E. always.
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline Adi

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:47:05 PM
Nice time (and date) that you posted this thread TS :)
 
#7 says it all.


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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 04:56:55 PM
TS is having some technical difficulties, will take a little longer. Nice tease though huh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Offline curls

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 05:01:58 PM
..... meanwhile Sarahli posts at a superb day/time for me in the UK: 9.11.11 at 9:29 (=11):11  !!!

Offline use_your_illusion

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:03:43 PM
All of the above...or none...lol
Do you give up yet?

Offline fordtocarr

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:14:28 PM
I knew that TS was posting because the forum went down.  I told my husband...watch, that's whats happening.  And of course.

Offline anewfan

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:23:16 PM
I knew that TS was posting because the forum went down.  I told my husband...watch, that's whats happening.  And of course.

 8) Things that make you go,  hmmmmmm.....
Your true character is how you act when no one is looking.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:27:38 PM
I do not believe in  the numerology of Alberto

















The call between Amir and Alberto was the 12:18 PM.


Then in less than a minute to do all this 1. He entered the room. 2. It was in shock. 3. Reached the phone. 4. Accompanied the children. 5. Comforted the children. 6. Path to the door. 7. He closed the door. 8. Dr. Murray spoke of a "bad reaction" 9. It was ice cream. 10. Took a plastic bag. 11. Put the plastic bag within a bag brown. 12. Walked two steps until you reach the intravenous support. 13. Put the bag intravenous in another bag  :? suspicious//



And call 911? 8)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:30:19 PM by paula-c »

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:36:25 PM

I am wondering if TS is from Netherlands, as he uses google.nl and how was able to post while the forum was down on maintenance and it appeared on the home page that only the admin could log in.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:45:25 PM by _Anna_ »

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
I am wondering if TS is from Netherlands, as he uses google.nl

Before we get that crap again, I will wipe that off the table for you.

TS had trouble getting his post up. I therefore put the forum in maintenance mode so that we could try and figure out how to get it up. When it finally worked, three of his links were very long so I made tinyurls of them, on MY laptop and I am in the Netherlands, which is why the tinyurl goes to Google NL. No mystery there.

Thanks TS for yet another long ass post. I wonder what the debunkers have to say about that. I am going to bed first and think about the options.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:12:16 PM
So, if I have problems getting a post up, you can see me trying and rescue me Souza?  LOL

LOL I said!!!  HONEST :)

If you are TS Souza, or MO, or Back, or Front OR MICHAEL, I don't care because the info we get from TS always pans out accurate.
What does drive me crazy, is I cannot figure out why TS speaks of himself as TS instead of I.

And...I'm beginning to take things back at where I began and just BELIEVE Michael is alive, simply because I Feel it.
That post was way beyond me..just like the trial.
LOVE to all of you, whoever you happen to be.

Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:21:23 PM
Ts what can I say, amazing post, you are an amazing person. You explained it very well, and step by step.. Thank you for recap, this is appreciated it.. blessings.


I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am.
Michael Jackson

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:25:52 PM
Thanks TS.

This has given me more to think about over the next few hours....my mind is spinning a bit

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:29:43 PM
 According to Jermaine in his book, Michael's name in nimbers is 777. I wonder if and how we can work this in here.  8) /pull hair/

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:32:40 PM
hahahahahahaha lolol/ TS...you can't "Fool" me anymore, cause I "Think for myself"! I will skip "re-hashing" things that have already happened, that can't be changed, and I will stick to Changing the things that i can...like myself! You know that I LOVE YOU!!!

We are ONE, We are LOVE!

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:42:21 PM
Thanks TS! A very descriptive post. I'd like to see anyone challenge you now!  /bravo/
"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with.” - Michael Jackson

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 08:48:47 PM
Thanks TS, I've read it once so far, I'll need to review it again when my head has stopped spinning, lol.  One thing I'll say right now is the timing of 3:17 -those numbers really stuck out to me because that is my lucky time/timing because I was born on St Patrick's Day (March 17).  I always notice those numbers, like all the time, and so I was like  afraid/          :shock:       :lol:

I'll read again later.  :ugeek:


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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 09:03:31 PM
7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
     #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

Right.....I'll bite for using a bit of Michael's Math (from the Flip Wilson show I posted about in the Opening Day Musical thread....)

1+2+3+4+5+6+7=28
28/7=4
I say #4 "The Caller" Was Not Alvarez

Here is the video with Flip Wilson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e_gbzuuG0c


Blessings Always



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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 09:25:10 PM
According to Jermaine in his book, Michael's name in nimbers is 777. I wonder if and how we can work this in here.  8) /pull hair/

The only name that will give you 777=21 is this  8-):

MICHAEL =7
BRANDON=7
JACKSON= 7

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 09:34:15 PM
I do not believe in  the numerology of Alberto

















The call between Amir and Alberto was the 12:18 PM.


Then in less than a minute to do all this 1. He entered the room. 2. It was in shock. 3. Reached the phone. 4. Accompanied the children. 5. Comforted the children. 6. Path to the door. 7. He closed the door. 8. Dr. Murray spoke of a "bad reaction" 9. It was ice cream. 10. Took a plastic bag. 11. Put the plastic bag within a bag brown. 12. Walked two steps until you reach the intravenous support. 13. Put the bag intravenous in another bag  :? suspicious//


And call 911? 8)


Paula, I'm right there with you on this one. Alberto claims to have done all of this in 30 seconds, even having enough time to turn into ice cream. Oh really Alberto? It took you less than 30 seconds to turn yourself into ice cream?!?! If so, then what flavor? I think 21 flavors, maybe.
Me and Paula got MJ's back no doubt.
And TS, I believe in you with all my hoaxness!

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 10:25:31 PM
TS, you make me look like this with your amazing posts. :lol:



Thank you so so much for your time, patience, love and support. You are so much appreciated and loved by me. I hope you know that.


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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 10:59:17 PM
Introduction

This is not level 7 (this information will be of some value, though, when it’s time for level 7).  Also, this is a fairly long and detailed post, much like the Updates.  However, this is not really an update either, because it is not new territory; instead, this is just further documentation to establish what I have already said about the numerology and 911 call timing.  The questions and objections have been raised primarily in the TIAI September 27 (Official Trial Thread); however, the answers and details are too long for that thread, so I have started a whole new thread for this discussion.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Outline

Introduction
     Outline
     Just a Few Examples
     Even If “TS Is Fake”

Timing Discrepancies
     Timing From Dona Norris
     Timing From the Phone Call
     Timing From Steve Ruda
     Timing From Richard Senneff
     Timing From Alberto Alvarez

7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
     #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

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Just a Few Examples

Here are just a few out of many posts, on the subject of the 911 call (12:20 or 12:21?).  I have not given any user names here, because it is not my intent to focus on the errors of any particular person; instead, I want to focus on the concepts which are wrong (regardless of who wrote them).

“Yes, it was reported in media that it was 12:21 but it was proved that the phone call was pressed at 12:20:18 …”

 “This clearily [clearly] shows the call wasnt placed at 12.21.04 as TS insistes [insists] it was. He said the button was pressed at 12.21.04 and NOT earlier, to be sure its not 12.20. This means this theory falls. Together with the others tied to it.”

 “Can someone please explain why in court is proven that the actual 911 call was placed at 12:20, while all this time TS states the importance of the call being placed at 12:21, this destoys [destroys] a lot of ‘proof’ imho.........”

And this post is in answer to the above question: “‘cause TS is Fake! MJ IS Alive but he will not comeback anymore!   I’m sorry guys!   Time will bear me out...  poor TS!”

Unfortunately, even after nearly two and half years, some still have not learned their lesson: “Just because it’s in print, doesn’t mean it’s the gospel”—and that INCLUDES things in print shown at court trials! After all, do we really believe everything that was shown in court during the 2005 trial? And if not, then why are some so gullible and accept without question everything stated in this 2011 trial?  Actually, when you have really learned your lesson well, you will question EVERYTHING that you have been taught from a child (news, science, history, religion, etc)--not merely the things which are directly related to MJ and/or this hoax.

Some eagerly accept everything that they see and hear in this trial, without thinking for themselves and questioning the reliability of the evidence presented. So let’s do some REAL investigation, rather than slapping an “investigation” label on that which is actually nothing better than assuming it’s impossible for documents to be falsified.

I do not make the above statements to those who are sincerely asking for clarification about the 911 call timing.  Rather, it is long-overdue and relatively mild rebuke (mild in comparison to what is deserved) for those who have failed time and again to debunk anything from TS; and yet when something else comes along, they can’t resist the burning urge to try it again—and expose their own errors one more time!  Their failures only increase their itching desire to find something that they can pounce upon, and claim the victory before their eyes have even had enough time to focus on what they have pounced upon!  Will they ever learn?

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Even If “TS Is Fake” …

Have you ever noticed that many non-believers would rather have MJ dead, than admit that they’re wrong (and we are right)?  What kind of so-called “love” for MJ is that—rather have him dead, than alive???  But a similar attitude can be seen even among some of those who do not think MJ is dead; I’m sure that you can see the parallel, if you want to, without me spelling it out. So for the sake of those who are desperately wishing that they could disprove TS, and the very clear messages in the numerology: let’s pretend for a bit that TS is indeed fake, and see whether all the other numerology collapses on this one point alone (the timing of the 911 call).

Well, these 9 categories below would still be true (from my $999 reward):
d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)
e. 77 days from “death” to 9-9-09 [autopsy finalized on 9-9-09, etc]
f. 7 days from “burial” to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)
g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999
h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998
i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999
j. 777 + 999 = 1776
k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, ... 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111
l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)

Furthermore, even if there never was any 911 call at any time whatsoever—yet we still have several things to show 1221, and the end of the world theme:
a. MJ beliefs in Revelation—the 144,000, the new earth (old world must end before any new earth)
b. the “four years” in TII (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)
c. the 2012 movie (Sony movie, released right after TII, set in the same four years 2009-2012, the “Jackson” name, they thought he was dead but he was not, and many other parallels discussed already)
d. the FBI files were 333 pages, planned release on 12-21 (2009)
e. The retweet of Paris, about 2012 and BAM

Additionally, even if TS is totally fake, yet we STILL have to face the fact that the 911 call IS associated with 12:21—regardless of HOW it was done!  It’s the time that has been reported by the media everywhere.  And 1221 was also the only number circled by Senneff on his sheet, as if it had more importance than 1226 and other numbers {1:30, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Last but not least: the $999 reward; after more than a year, nobody has even come within a thousand miles of collecting it.  Why not, if TS and the numerology is so easy to debunk???  Notice above that I left out the first three (a, b, & c) from the $999 reward list, because a, b, & c referred to the 911 call (but now I am including them below).  Yet only one of these three has anything to do with the seconds—and even that one says nothing of how it was done.  So if this was a big blunder by TS: then just step forward with your math, showing it was coincidence (less than one-in-a-million), and collect your $999 reward—what are you waiting for?!?

a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21 [regardless of HOW that timing was accomplished!]
b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7
c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7

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Timing Discrepancies

Now it’s time to take a very detailed examination of the timing, and see once again who doesn’t know what they are talking about—TS, or the critics of TS??  The fact is that there are things which don’t add up in what we have been told about the 911 call timing (contradictions, just like everything else in this circus).  Therefore, we should look for indications of what is real and what is fake; it is of course possible that it’s all fake, but it is not possible that it’s all real.

To save space, I will use the following abbreviations:
BHPD = Beverly Hills Police Department
LAFD = Los Angeles Fire Department
FS71 = Fire Station #71

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Timing From Dona Norris





The above picture (identified by PPP) was explained by Norris as follows:
12:20:18; TK009 = Trunk line #9 was captured by the incoming call
12:20:21; RI = Ringing, the call started ringing at the console
12:20:26; CO005 = Connect, operator pushed button to answer the call (note: for the incoming call to ring and be answered, it took eight seconds—in an emergency??)
12:20:50; TT009 = Transfer Through, operator pushed the transfer button (to LAFD)12:21:03; DI005 = Disconnect, operator pushed the hang up button
12:21:04; RLS = Released, the call was no longer in the BHPD trunking system
00:00:46; DUR = Duration of call at BHPD, from 12:20:18 to 12:21:04 (note: 40+ seconds seems awfully slow, for merely transferring a call that is a life and death emergency!)

If you listen carefully to Dona’s testimony, you will see that she is not the operator who took the 911 call {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rRtsRVQiRU}.  Surely, the descriptions that Dona gave are not too complicated for a 911 operator to understand, and explain in court.  Then why wasn’t the actual operator called to the stand, instead of Dona?  Even if the operator worked a different job now, she could still be a witness in this case (others have had a change in job since 6-25-09, and yet they testified).  Since Dona did not actually take the call, she could easily report the above timeline with a straight face—even if it was fabricated.  And if it was not fabricated: then why wasn’t the audio made public back in June 2009, when the LAFD 911 audio was made public?

Also, why doesn’t the latitude/longitude on PPP match the LAFD call screen, or the cell tower list?
BHPD (PPP): 34.08167100, -118.414228 (Beverly Hills Hotel)
LAFD call screen: 34.08118800, -118.425086 (100 N Carolwood)
Cell towers: http://www.city-data.com/towers/lmobile-Beverly-Hills-California.html#ixzz1bjAH4jKU

The following evidence indicates that BHPD timing is wrong (possibly even fabricated):
•   Total time (40+ seconds) is unreasonably long for merely transferring an emergency call
•   The actual BHPD 911 operator did not testify
•   BHPD audio was not made public in June 2009, when the LAFD audio was made public
•   Lat/lon on PPP does not match lat/lon on LAFD call screen or cell tower list
•   LAFD timing does not match BHPD timing (which will be shown extensively below); and LAFD timing seems much more reliable (for all of the above reasons, plus we know that LAFD actually did respond with emergency vehicles and paramedics—so their timing is probably real)
•   The testimony and cell records of Alberto Alvarez

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Timing From the Phone Call

For the sake of reference, and timing calculations, the following is a list from the 911 call audio played in court; the times are taken from the video (which starts at 0:03, so subtract 3 seconds for actual times).   Notice the BHPD portion is about half a minute long, and the LAFD portion is two minutes long.

0:03, BHPD talking begins (notice that the audio quality is worse than the LAFD part)
0:28, beeps in transfer process
0:33, short ring
0:35, LAFD answers
0:42 to 0:49, 100 North Carolwood Drive, Los Angeles California, 90077
0:57 to 1:01, 909-273-4846
1:04 to 1:12, a gentleman needs help, he’s not breathing
1:14 to 1:17, 50 years old sir, (“50” repeated by dispatcher)
1:18 to 1:27, unconscious, not breathing
1:28, begin discussion on patient location (floor versus bed)
2:29, less than a mile away, be there soon
2:35, end
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg366005#msg366005;
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xle0y9_conrad-murray-trial-911-call-played-in-court_news#from=embediframe}.

Also, in order to make the events being discussed very clear, I am going to use three different words that have very distinct meanings: alarm (FS71 is alerted that there is an emergency), asphalt (FS71 trucks are rolling on the pavement), arrival (FS71 has reached the location of the emergency).

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Timing From Steve Ruda

You really don’t have to look very far, to find a timing discrepancy between BHPD and LAFD.  The LA Fire Captain Steve Ruda said the following—and it’s even on video: “On June 25, 2009, the Los Angeles Fire Department responded to the 100 block of Carolwood, at 12:21 and 18 seconds.”
{0:32, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4;
http://tinyurl.com/cdog56k}.

Why didn’t Ruda say “12:21 and four seconds”????  Or better yet, why didn’t he say: “12:20 and fifty seconds” (the approximate time LAFD received the call, according to Dona Norris)?  Surely, when Ruda said “responded”, he did not mean the time when FS71 got the alarm—because that was not until 12:22 (which we will see over and over again).  So according to Ruda, 12:21:18 is the time when the LAFD started responding to the call; that would be the time when the call came in to the LAFD.  But Ruda’s statement here is not the only thing that we have to go by; everything from the LAFD, as well as the 911 audio itself, all testify in favor of Ruda’s 12:21:18 timing.

The alarm that came into FS71 had four categories of information (see the call screen, and also exhibit #43): address, phone, 50 year old male, not breathing.  All four of these categories were communicated to the LAFD exactly 42 seconds into the call (1:17 minus 0:35, LAFD start time, equals 0:42).  At that point, the information would be transmitted to FS71 “almost instantaneously” {2:47, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Now if you start at 12:21:18, and then add these 42 seconds, you come to exactly—12:22, the time of the alarm at FS71!  Since “almost” is not quite instantaneously, perhaps it was actually 12:22:03 or 12:22:05 by the time the alarm actually hit FS71; this poses no problem, because the alarm time is always given as 12:22, but never the seconds.

However, if the LAFD call started no later than 12:20:58 (the Norris timeline), then 42 seconds later the alarm would hit FS71 at 12:21:40—not 12:22!  Was the LAFD dispatch doing cartwheels for about half a minute, before getting around to kicking the alarm at FS71??  Sure glad it wasn’t a real emergency!!

Moving on: in harmony with common sense (no time wasted on cartwheels), as well as the above calculation of 42 seconds into the LAFD call—there are numerous reports on the internet, that Ruda said the call “took 42 seconds to process”
{http://statter911.com/search/sosua; http://statter911.com/2009/06/26/quick-takes-248/; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5653140/Michael-Jackson-the-final-days-and-how-TMZ.com-scooped-the-world.html; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5647150/Michael-Jackson-his-final-hours.html; https://elgg.leeds.ac.uk/_rss/individual.php?feed=321&feed_offset=4070}.

This 42 seconds would not be the duration of the phone call, because that was two minutes.  And the 42 seconds would not be the time from alarm to asphalt, because that time is given by Ruda below as “within 60 seconds” (not “42 seconds”, or “about 40 seconds”, or “within 50 seconds”, etc).

“On June 25, 2009, at 12:21 [he doesn’t give the seconds here, so it could be 12:21:18] p.m., 911 operators transferred a request for emergency care to a Los Angeles firefighter dispatcher. … When a call for emergency care sounded in quarters [the alarm], Engine 71 … responded within 60 seconds [time from alarm to asphalt]. … The companies from Fire Station 71 responded in three minutes and 17 seconds [time from alarm to arrival]. … This response was on-scene at 1225 hours.”
{http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-162/issue-10/departments/what-we_learned/lessons-from-the-michael.html; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=3333.0; http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-things-f8/steve-ruda-article-on-fireengineeringcom-t3824.htm}.

Let’s pause here to verify that 3:17 is the time from alarm to arrival, and not the time from asphalt to arrival (not the time actually on the road).  According to Ruda, the trucks were rolling around 12:23:00+/- (“within 60 seconds” of the 12:22:03+/- alarm); and 3:17 after 12:23:00 would be 12:26:17+/-, yet Ruda said they were “on-scene at 1225 hours”.

Furthermore, 3:17 is unreasonably long to be enroute from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood—especially in emergency vehicles.  Essentially the entire route is on a 4-lane road (W Sunset); and the only signals are right turns, which would pose little to no delay—even if the lights were red (especially for emergency vehicles that can go through red lights).  Around noon on Thursday (6-25-09) would not be the time of day for rush-hour traffic.  Google Maps lists the drive from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood as 0.9 miles, and MapQuest lists it as 0.89 miles.
{http://tinyurl.com/7ojhrhh}

If 3:17 is the time from asphalt to arrival, the average speed would be 16.4 MPH  {http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html}.  This is unrealistically slow, especially for emergency vehicles.  But if 3:17 is the time from alarm to arrival, then the time enroute would be roughly 2:20—and the average speed would be 23.1 MPH.  At first, this may also appear to be too slow; however, keep in mind that the real speed may vary from stopped briefly (at a light or something) to about double the average (46 MPH).  This is a reasonable speed range for W Sunset; but doubling 16.4 MPH would only be about 33 MPH, and not realistic.  Unless there was a freak accident or something, and all four lanes were blocked (causing a delay and/or an alternate route), 3:17 from FS71 to 100 N Carolwood is way too slow for emergency vehicles.

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Timing From Richard Senneff

Now it’s time to establish the 12:22 alarm.  In the top right corner of the call screen, you will see 12:22 (see photo below, under possibility #3); this is the alarm time.  It can’t be the call time, because that was before 12:22; and it’s not the asphalt time, because before they even hit the asphalt the information on the computer screen comes in automatically from the LAFD call center {5:50, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJWwvUpqhE}.

The call screen does not give the seconds for the alarm time.  Since this is computer readout digital time, it would not be rounded up from ~12:21:45 to 12:22; even 12:21:59 would be listed on the screen as 12:21.  So we know that the alarm came in at least 12:22:00 (and probably a few seconds later).  The alarm time also comes into FS71 printed on the teletype (exhibit #43); and it is also given in four digits as 12:22 without the seconds {3:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Gourjian: “Mr. Senneff, just to clarify, when you first got the call to respond to Carolwood—what time was that at?”  Senneff: “When I first got the call at the station was 12:22.” {13:09, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My4vQZvnaNo}.

Senneff: “The dispatch time, when we get the alarm at the station at 12:22. … that’s the time the alarm comes into the station.”  Brazil: “12:22?”  Senneff: “That’s correct.” {3:17, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Brazil: “So 12:22 the call comes into the station, and what’s the next thing that you do, in response to that information?”  Senneff: “We grab the teletype, get in the, uh, apparatus [ambulance], and head out the doors.” {8:45, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJWwvUpqhE; see also 8:10}.

Brazil: “What time did you arrive at the Carolwood residence?”  Senneff: “12:26.” {7:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_44lw6Y_FiQ}.

Gourjian: “And what time did you arrive at the Carolwood residence?”  Senneff: “12:26 I believe.”  Gourjian: “Okay.  And what time did you arrive upstairs by Mr. Jackson?”  Senneff: “Less than a minute.”  Gourjian: “Okay.  So approximately 12:27?”  Senneff: “Yes.” {2:26, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQJV4at5heA}.

Finally, all three of these same times are listed on his F-902M form: “Time of Alarm, 1222”; “Time on Scene, 1226”; “Time at Patient, 1227”
{13:30 to 14:30, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9JMQ40VYN4;
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/2011/10/doc-paramedics-report/; http://lafdtraining.org/ists/books/bk05.pdf, page 14}.

In case you are wondering why Ruda said “on-scene at 1225 hours”, but Senneff listed 12:26 as the arrival time, there is a simple explanation.  The fire truck was driving ahead of the ambulance, and parked on the street (at 12:25; Ruda was not there, but got the info from their records).  Senneff was in the ambulance; it was not only behind the fire truck, but it had to deal with the extra time to go through the gate, and park inside.  So it is reasonable for the ambulance arrival to be roughly half a minute later.

Overview of LAFD timing:
12:21:18 LAFD “responded” to incoming 911 call (Ruda)
12:22:03+/- alarm, about 42 seconds later (per Ruda, also call timing 1:17 minus 0:35)
12:23:00+/- asphalt (Ruda, “within 60 seconds”)
12:25:20+/- E71 arrival, parked on street (Ruda, “on-scene at 1225”)
12:26:00+/- RA71 through gate, parked inside (Senneff 12:26, possibly rounded)
12:26:50+/- at patient (Senneff, “less than a minute”, and “approximately” 12:27)

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Timing From Alberto Alvarez





The above picture (exhibit #26) shows the 911 call at 12:20, not 12:21.  Shall we take this record as more reliable than the LAFD records?  And if so, then why are there four outgoing calls listed at 12:18—just one of which is 88 seconds?  Several hoax investigators have already noticed this discrepancy {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20594.msg362274.html#msg362274}.  If the next to last line should read 12:19 (instead of 12:18), then maybe the last line should read 12:21 (instead of 12:20).

Also notice that exhibit #26 here does not show the seconds; 12:20:18 is nowhere to be found, except on the unreliable BHPD printout (PPP).  This means that even if exhibit #26 above is accurate, Alvarez could’ve pushed the button so close to 12:21:00 that it actually registered as 12:20:59 with Verizon (and therefore 12:20 on exhibit #26); but it takes a few seconds to process and route the call, therefore it registered as 12:21:04 at the receiving end.

Yet another major problem, with the 12:20:18 theory, is the amount of time needed to accomplish all of the things which Alvarez said that he did—between the 88 second 12:18 call (ending ~12:19:45, since there were two other 12:18 calls before this one), and the 911 call supposedly only about 30 seconds later (see picture below).  Many have also noticed this discrepancy; and it was so obvious, that it was even mentioned during the trial and the closing arguments!  How many of the discrepancies that we have found ever made it to court?  Almost none!  Yet this one did; so it must be an extremely glaring inconsistency, and/or there is another reason why this is getting attention.





“According to Alvarez’s phone records he only had about 30 seconds to perform all the events (listed above by Chernoff) after he ended the call with Amir. The DA is trying to prove that Alvarez did all these things simultaneously, so that it would all fit into the 30 seconds time frame. Chernoff highly questions all this during recross examination.” {http://this-is-al-most-it.blogspot.com/2011/10/definitive-proof-ts-is-bs.html}.  Actually, during his closing argument, Chernoff went beyond highly questioning it; he said that it was just plain “impossible” {3:40; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iADy3WuWOMw; see also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21TB6_qZSU}.

Finally, the testimony from Alvarez himself, at the preliminary hearing, should set the record straight.  This was before any alleged BHPD records surfaced, and at the time Alvarez was unaware of any call made at 12:20; he said “12:21 or 12:22”, not 12:20 or 12:21—and this was right after reviewing “his phone records this morning” when he “saw the time there as well”!!!  So even IF there was any uncertainty in his mind, it would be whether the call was placed after 12:21 (12:22)—not whether it was placed before 12:21 (12:20).

“After he sets everything down he calls 911 at approximately 12:21 or 12:22. He does state he did hear his phone call reported on TV and the time was also reported on tv. He also states that he and the prosecution did review his phone records this morning (today) and saw the time there as well. He is asked if he spoke to more than one person on the 911 call and he only recalls the Operator.” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/trial/2011/10/preliminary-hearing-day-2-%e2%80%93-alberto-alvarez/; http://teammichaeljackson.com/p-v-cm-jan-5th-albert-alvarez}.

Please notice that the preliminary hearing was not someone from the LAFD discussing what time the call was transferred to them; no, it was Alvarez discussing phone records and what time the call was originally made.  The following phrase has zero hits on Google (be sure to use quote marks): “Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:20”; and currently there are about 9,000 hits for this phrase, all referring back to the preliminary hearing: “Phone records showed 911 was not called until 12:21
{http://tinyurl.com/7mdqou6}.

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7 Possibilities

Now I’m going to propose 7 different possible scenarios—none of which would mean that 12:21 was not part of the planned numerology and timing, OR that the statements I have previously made about the 911 timing prove that TS is fake.  So if I can come up with 7 possibilities—and my opposers did not even come up with a single possibility, that fits with what I’ve said in the past—then the real problem is not a lack of accuracy in what I have said, the real problem is that they are desperately trying to find something to disprove TS.  Why?  Because it is human nature; many people are too proud to admit that they made a mistake, just like so-called “fans” who would rather have MJ dead than admit that they are wrong (and the hoax investigators are right).

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#1. The 911 Calls Were Staged

No actual phone calls were placed to either the BHPD or LAFD; the calls were staged (much like the ambulance photo).  In this case, the information on the call screen was fabricated.  My description of the 911 call was describing not what literally happened, but rather what the information on the screen was designed to represent (made to look like someone was waiting for 12:21 to make the call).

Considering the above possibility: notice that there was one rather small two-letter word in Update 4c, which carries a rather big meaning.  “So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect …” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=7124.0}.

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#2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport

For this scenario, I’m going to go on the idea that TS is actually MJ.  But please do not take this and run with it; I am merely showing that if MJ himself could make the same statements about the 911 call, and still not be a fake—then just as much or more could someone other than MJ make these same statements, and yet not be a fake. 

What if MJ had already gone to the airport, before the 911 call was made; he was not there in person, to observe what actually happened.  Someone at the house not in on it was urging that someone call 911, and by 12:20 Alvarez felt that he could not delay any longer without raising too much suspicion; so he called 911 a little early.  In spite of the early call, the transfer to LAFD was not completed until 12:21; and this provided an opportunity for good old TMZ to still report the intended time, 12:21 {http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/}.  Other media copied TMZ’s report, and so 12:21 became the time of the 911 call reported almost everywhere.  Nevertheless, this scenario does not explain the discrepancies in timing given by BHPD and LAFD, etc.

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#3. ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)

Alvarez called 911 immediately at 12:21:00; BHPD at answered at 12:21:04.  Within a reasonable time of 14 seconds (not a long delay of 46 seconds): BHPD determined the emergency needed LAFD (not police), and transferred to LAFD by 12:21:18 (as Ruda said).  In this case, both the original call and the transfer occurred during the minute of 12:21; therefore, this ensured that the media would report 12:21—regardless of whether they reported the original call, or the time LAFD got the call (and would be another good reason for starting the call exactly at 12:21, and not 15 or 30 seconds later).





In support of this scenario (see picture above), the call screen says “ORIGINAL W911 [wireless 911] INFO (12:21:04) …”; and then there are three lines of info about the ORIGINAL Alvarez call, but not info about the BHPD or the call transfer (that info was in the previous lines above).

This leads to the question of why the time “12:21:04” is even listed on the call screen.  For what purpose is this information provided to the FS71 paramedics?  If it’s merely the time when BHPD trunk line 009 was released (open for a new 911 call to come into BHPD on that trunk line, as Dona testified): why would FS71 paramedics care a whit about that time, why would it be on their call screen?  Would this information help them know what action to take in an emergency?

Wouldn’t it be far more important for the paramedics to know the time when the emergency call first came in at the BHPD?  What if BHPD had an emergency of their own (and that can happen), and it took them three minutes to transfer the call to LAFD?  Wouldn’t FS71 want to know how long since the emergency started, so that they could assess things like how long the house has been burning (in the case of a fire)?  This is the only time on the call screen with seconds included (12:21:04).  Why is the only time given in seconds also the only time on the screen which doesn’t even need to be there at all (if it’s really nothing other than BHPD trunk line release time)—much less have the exact seconds??  The paramedics really don’t even need to know when the LAFD call center first received the call (much less any BHPD trunk release time); yet even if they did need that info, for some reason, it would be about 12:20:55 (if Norris times are correct)--not 12:21:04!

However, if the timing from BHPD is either intentionally fabricated or some huge mistake—and 12:21:04 is the time when the original call first came in to BHPD—then we have a very good reason why it is listed on the FS71 call screen, and even listed in seconds.  The exact time (including seconds) listed on the call screen helps the firefighters and paramedics to understand just how long the emergency situation has been in progress, which in turn helps them determine how to respond to the emergency.  This would also explain why 12:21:04 is listed on the call screen as “ORIGINAL” call info (not BHPD transfer info)!

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#4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez

Alvarez did not actually call “911”, since it was not a real emergency; instead, he used a different number to call someone at the BHPD who was in on it.  This key person at BHPD transferred Alvarez’s call to LAFD at 12:21:04; and I was actually referring to him (not Alvarez) when I said “the caller”.  Do you think it was an accident that I said “the caller”, and not “Alvarez”?  In this scenario, the “911 operator” would refer to an operator taking emergency calls at the LAFD dispatch center (not someone at BHPD).

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#5. The Beverly Hills Hotel

This scenario is essentially the same as #4, except for the following.  Nobody from the BHPD was in on it at the time, and no calls went through them—either on regular lines, or on a cell phone.  This would therefore reduce the chances of any police showing up at the scene who were not in on the hoax; and it would also reduce the chances of the situation being broadcast on police radios—which paparazzi could hear on their police scanners, and show up at Carolwood, making it more difficult for Chris to get the magic picture.  So instead of calling BHPD, Alvarez called someone waiting at the Beverly Hills Hotel; this person then transferred the call on to LAFD at 12:21:04, much like the description above in #4.

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#6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly

Alvarez called the LAFD dispatch (at 12:21:04), using a direct number not 911.  In this scenario, there was no transfer process either through the BHPD or through someone at the Beverly Hills Hotel.  Like #5, this option also keeps the BHPD out of it, and reduces the people who need to be in on it.  The time from 12:21:04 (call screen data) to 12:21:18 (Ruda) could be a transfer from whoever first answered at LAFD, to a specific person planned in advance who was in on it at LAFD (and same for #4 & #5, above).

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#7. Think For Yourself

Just like everything else in this illusion, no explanation seems to answer all of the questions.  Nevertheless, think for yourself; and with the information that I have provided here, see if you can come up with a scenario that I have not specifically described—there is at least one more possibility (and probably several more).

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Which One of the 7?

Finally, does it really matter which one of these above 7 options is the correct one?  And even if I told you which one, how could I prove it?  Just because I know the answer to something does not mean I say the answer; I normally limit my statements to things that I can back up pretty solidly (except of course the things that I’ve said jokingly).

Also, a magician does not give away all of his secrets.  Again, I am not saying that TS is MJ; I’m just saying that if the MaJician himself could have some secrets about how it was done, and yet not be fake, then just as much or more someone who is not MJ.

TS-I am not a debunker against what your doing to prove the numerology timing and the timing calculations regarding how long it takes to answer the call to transfer to LAFD, etc. I understand everything you have wrote regarding times but I have underlined 3 different times you have wrote regarding Dona Norris times. There are 3 different times and 2 of those contradict the screen print of PPP the call sytem. If the call time you used to get to 3:17 is different than the PPP time line than your first set of calculations explaining about how to get to 3:17 will be off.

I have observed on more than one occasion here on the forum that if someone makes one mistake in their comments/observations than the path they went on because of it changes the path difference of right one to wrong one and it goes down a rabbit hole. I also have observed on more than one occasion that alot of the members accept the info as accurate and then go with it on a path of their own connecting dots that are in reality not right because of the incorrect info.

Saying all that, I understand the need to investigate, think on my own and question the accuracy of info no matter who presents it.

I have only partially answered your comment because I am still experiencing slowness. I have underlined and enlarged the times I am referring to and some of the things you said that I agree with and notice also. There is alot in your post I agree with but I am not going to point that out right now. I will be back to finish my thoughts. Thanks for the lessons.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 02:20:53 PM by Im_convincedmjalive »

Offline BeTheChange

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 09, 2011, 11:15:05 PM
Thanks for the rest of the post TS...and big thanks to Souza for doing what she could to help get the post to us.  It was the only time I've ever known the exact reason why the forum goes into 'maintenance mode' from time to time.  So TS might be Souza huh?  :lol:  Now THAT would be a mindf*ck that I don't think I can wrap my head around right now lol (after drinking 2 glasses of wine while reading TS' post...yup, it took 2 glasses!!).

Although my head is spinning from detail-overload...there are a couple of things that came out in trial that have 'lingered' in my mind as being glaring discrepancies in regards to the 911 call.  The first is Alvarez's statement, testimony, and phone records that state he called 911....but I don't think he did.  If he did dial the numbers 9-1-1 and hit 'send' on his cell phone or he hit a 'speed-dial' button for 911...then LA has got to have the worst 911 system in the country...perhaps continent.  Who gets transfered when they dial 911?  Not to mention having an 8-second convo, in an emergency situation, only to be transferred to the 'real' 911.  In a life and death situation (which is what 911 is really for and setup for...despite the 'misuse' of the # by many people--there are other numbers to call for not-so-urgent emergencies)...seconds matter.  And in relation to the hoax, it's obvious that MJ planned this call down to the second.  My guess...if Alvarez called anyone, it wasn't 911...it was someone who connected him to 911.  Which, in itself, brings up a whole other bunch of 'goodies' to think about lol.

The second thing that 'boggles' the mind is one major glaring discrepancy between Alvarez and Senneff's testimonies.  According to Alvarez and the 911 call-log, at 12:22:29 (if my math is right...but could be off by a bit cause of the wine lol) he and Murray were putting MJ on the floor, as per the 911 operator's instructions, while he was still on the phone with 911.  According to Senneff's testimony, he arrived at Carolwood at 12:26 and walked into the bedroom less than a minute later, at approximately 12:27....and SAW Alvarez and Murray putting MJ down on the floor  :?  Where's Sherlock when you need him?

I'm not sure how or even if these two 'things' fit or don't fit into supporting or 'debunking' any of the 7 possibilities given by TS (who did use "I" a few times in this post ;) ).  I'm sure that once I 'think' on it some more, some possibilities will look more plausible than others...but after reading TS' post, I can't 'think' anymore right now  :lol:. 

I'm debating another glass of wine and 'think' that I just might have another and throw on The Experience and work off the calories  :lol: (where are ya WishingStar????  Wish we were neighbors  bearhug). 

Thanks SO much for your post TS...you always manage to 'fire up' the mind while gently fanning the flames already burning.  You are appreciated and loved.

With L.O.V.E. always.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 11:03:20 PM by BeTheChange »
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline wishingstar

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 12:28:27 AM
@BeTheChange.... I wish we were neighbors too! ....it would be SO much fun : ) You crack me up.....I can barely keep up with anything on The Experience......let's just say I am rhythmically-challenged, lol.  I thought I could dance a little bit, until I tried that......not enough wine on the planet....I am talking for others to drink, while they watch me try to dance!  You go girl!  I know you'll have fun......

For 2 glasses tonight....really good thoughts on Alvarez!!!! Did you see my post about using Michael's Math...I came out with Alvarez as well, lol! Have fun...I will chat with you soon ........ HUGS!

Love & Blessings

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:20:25 AM
Just wanted to share this video with you all in this thread as it is one that is read often. I LOVE You all so very much...Please watch and remember what this is all really about! LIVE LOVE... BE LOVE...You have a choice of what path you take!!! Blessings, LOVE and LIGHT!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=igUKhcWu1CM#![/youtube]

If you find yourself still seeking  answers...Look to LOVE...it will always come back to LOVE!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 01:24:02 AM by mjj4ever777 »

Offline MJonmind

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:30:43 AM
wishingstar and BeTheChange, how about a group doing it?  I've only used my The Experience a couple of times with my daughter since it's hard to get away from here; I always keep saying some other time. typing/


TS, boy this was a real mind-tease!  I had to re-read many sentences when my brain kept freezing. geek/
In court Judge Pastor kept reminding the attorneys not to use double negatives, so think he would be reminding you of that as well.  I tried to turn the 2 negatives into a positive! ;)  It always makes my day when you post! /woohoo/


Has it been mentioned that 12:21:04 could be 4 years to that big Dec 21 date?


Would you have planned to do this detailed explanation of the 911 call if certain ones here hadn't made an issue of the discrepancy? Because it worked out nicely to post it on 9/ll. Did you have this prepared long ago, and goodness -keeping up with reading thoughts on so many other sites.  Unless this is all you do, read all day like us.  Yet you have so much info only MJ would know. Well you always keep us mesmerized, guessing and happy!


I am hopeless with math, but as I was reading the 7 options, I was leaning towards #5 or #6 with BHPD numbers made up and hacked since the actual operator wasn't called to testify.
I'm probably wrong and the the answer is none of the above or all of the above in some weird way. :lol:


BeTheChange, I figured that the transfer of MJ to the floor happening 2 different times or with frozen time, was because way back there was originally 2 different 911 calls made by Alverez with different conversations. Was that ever talked about later on, or was one version just condensed? I know I recall hearing 2 different versions of the 911 call, and I don't know how that would affect the times they were received to be recorded in the system.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 01:37:32 AM by MJonmind »

Offline bec

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 02:08:51 AM
I always believed the 911 call was fake, because it's against the law to report a fake emergency with 911, not to mention it's bad juju; it ties up the phone lines and the operators who could be working on a real emergency. A real 911 call would also bring random Paramedics who would be unaware of the hoax. Random police cars I didn't think about, good point. Police scanners I assumed would be a problem- they would attract the media. We know Ben is in on it, and was supposed to be there. Outside Carrolwood on 6/25/09 seemed to be a very controlled setting, almost a closed set.  A staged "911" call gives MJ privacy and control. A real 911 call is illegal, unethical, likely to bring a large number of public attention to the scene, and dispatch a random Paramedic team. Staged is likely the answer, in my opinion. Alvarez spoke to someone who pretended to be a 911 operator (or more accurately, leads you to believe that they are a 911 operator, he never says "911 what is your emergency?"), but Alvarez didn't actually place the call and the caller didn't actually call 911.

So when you said "caller", TS, you just reaffirmed that old theory for me. Alvarez and the caller are 2 separate roles because this was a live production, perfection in execution was essential, there are no do-overs. Alvarez's job was to focus on his lines, while someone else focused on the timing of the connection. That person was "the caller".
Are you entertained?

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:39:57 AM
If Souza is TS then wow, she is so very smart and organized.
What could I say in this case except congratulations Souza, you are amazing.
The bad thing is we can not prove who TS is, we can not prove Souza is TS or TS is Michael or Jermaine or Tim Simkins or whatever. It's all assumptions.
And I have a feeling they won't let us know who they are before it is over.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 03:45:03 AM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:54:30 AM
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?



« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 03:56:11 AM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:01:11 AM
What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/

What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr

Offline Adi

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:06:34 AM
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?





After ALL this time don't you think the answers to your questions above is obvious Gina? ....think for yourself and realise the truth of what you ask above......there is only 1 answer to all of your questions.

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:07:16 AM
What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/

What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr

Numbers can not lie, 1+1=2 no matter what. So numbers can be used to send a clear message, that something is planned in advance. It's like a code, as simple as that.
The easiest way to send messages from beyond the "grave".

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:11:14 AM
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?





After ALL this time don't you think the answers to your questions above is obvious Gina? ....think for yourself and realise the truth of what you ask above......there is only 1 answer to all of your questions.

What do you mean?

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:12:29 AM
What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/

What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr

Numbers can not lie, 1+1=2 no matter what. So numbers can be used to send a clear message, that something is planned in advance. It's like a code, as simple as that.
The easiest way to send messages from beyond the "grave".


So it is used to send us messages, is that the only purpose?

It means zilch to me because I have no time to study it, but if it means something to others then that's great.   ;)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 06:14:15 AM by reveron1958 »

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:20:37 AM
@reveron, what do I really know? That's how I see it. Numbers send messages and also numbers tell a sort of "story".

See Michael displayed the 777 on his arm in the History period, so it must have meant something to him:



I don't really study the numbers so much but when I see a 7 in the course of events I think that maybe Michael sends us a message. Like the verdict on 7/11 for example.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 06:22:40 AM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:25:25 AM
@reveron, what do I really know? That's how I see it. Numbers send messages and also numbers tell a sort of "story".

See Michael displayed the 777 on his arm in the History period, so it must have meant something to him:



Apparently 777 is God's number so I can see why he liked the number 7.   respect/

I have a lucky number but I don't use it all - except sometimes on a Lottery ticket and it's never helped me win anyway!  /scream/

OT - you have my favourite song in your signature  :mrgreen:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 06:27:06 AM by reveron1958 »

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:26:13 AM
Look he also has a 7 on this jacket, this is not usual thing is it?



OT with such a cute prisoner I would like to work in a jail LOL!
Seriously, if he got killed I think that song was the reason.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 06:28:11 AM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:32:41 AM
Nice jacket  :) (not keen on the woman LOL)


So why does it actually matter what time the 911 call was made?  suspicious//

 /white flag/


OT - I made my son (23) listen to 'We've Had Enough' on headphones the other day and when he finished listening he turned to me and said 'That's why they needed him gone Mum'  :cry:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 06:37:05 AM by reveron1958 »

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:38:51 AM
...I can breathe I can bleed I can die in my sleep cause you're always there in my dreams...

I meant 'Fall Again'  ;))

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:47:17 AM
Look he also has a 7 on this jacket, this is not usual thing is it?



OT with such a cute prisoner I would like to work in a jail LOL!
Seriously, if he got killed I think that song was the reason.

His jacket here also has the same "vines" which surround the "mysterious" face in the ambulance picture
;)

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 08:23:06 AM
The Lat./Lon. info is off. The call to the BHPD was made from inside the Beverly Hills Hotel (if it's not completely fabricated to begin with). 34.08167100, -118.414228 will bring us right into the Beverly Hills hotel:



According to the site you linked to TS, there should be a tower there, but the lat./lon. displayed on that site with 9641 Sunset Blvd does not confirm that: 34.079167 -118.413417 because it takes us to N Rodeo Dr. Also, according to this site there are no towers there at all (just zoom in and look for the hotel). The sheet that Norris explained says 100% for the location, so I guess we can safely assume that IF there was a call to the BHPD, it was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel.

And why would the location come through as from a 'tower' at the BH Hotel with the BHPD, and exactly INSIDE the mansion on Carolwood Drive for the LAFD? If you look up the latitude and longitude of Carolwood Drive, it takes you to some room at the back of the mansion, IN the house.

So apparently there were two calls: one from the Beverly Hills Hotel, and one from Carolwood Drive. The risk of having police/paps on the scene because of the scanners is a good one, and because of that it seems highly likely that there was no 911 call at all. If half of it is fabricated, why not all of it? If you have a key person in on it at the BHPD, and also at the LAFD, then why call at all? The LAFD could have had instructions to rush to Carolwood Drive at 12:21 that day and a phonecall wouldn't be needed anyway. You could record the callS earlier on, fabricate the screen in the LAFD truck and make it look like there was a call. Then you could fabricate some time record for court that shows what BS this all was (different lat./lon., different audio quality, a transfer call that took 46 minutes while someone was allegedly dying, etc.) And if there was no call at all, you can claim it was made at any time, in this case you could make sure 12:21 would be the time displayed in the media. No risk of paps/police responding to scanners, no risk of cell phones that aren't working, but everything planned and made sure beforehand, which would seem quite logical. That way Michael wouldn't have to be in the house at all to direct the circus, since it was already worked out. He came 'home' from rehearsing but i think he immediately hightailed it and probably took a plane to wherever for a while, since he knew everything around him and his family would be under scrutiny for a few weeks/months and staying in the US would be too risky. If you look at that survaillance footage that they showed in court, you see a car arriving, parking for a few minutes somewhere at the left of the screen, then leaving again. And apparently that could have easily been MJ's car, since the fans seem to gather around it once it leaves.

Then the lights are on all night because they need to prepare the death scene. If I recall right, there were was a picture of the 'death' bed published in 2009 which wasn't the actual scene that we saw later on in the real room. Maybe that picture was a stage scene, given to the ones in the house (Alvarez/Murray) as a guide, so that they would know where to place what and to make sure they wouldn't forget anything. The next day the family goes into the house to make sure everything is in place.

Anyways, I'm drifting off topic. My point is: why make a call at all if the LAFD is in on it? So my option #7: there was no call at all, it was all prepared beforehand.

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 09:21:31 AM
...I can breathe I can bleed I can die in my sleep cause you're always there in my dreams...

I meant 'Fall Again'  ;))

ahhhhhhh...I love that song sooo much

Offline MJJSmile

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 09:34:44 AM
Dear TS,
I still have to read your post, but the time you've posted it, I already like it ( 9:19:44) = 999 :D
Thanks and L.O.V.E. to you TS
Always with L.O.V.E.

Offline ilovemjforever

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 09:59:36 AM
The Lat./Lon. info is off. The call to the BHPD was made from inside the Beverly Hills Hotel (if it's not completely fabricated to begin with). 34.08167100, -118.414228 will bring us right into the Beverly Hills hotel:



According to the site you linked to TS, there should be a tower there, but the lat./lon. displayed on that site with 9641 Sunset Blvd does not confirm that: 34.079167 -118.413417 because it takes us to N Rodeo Dr. Also, according to this site there are no towers there at all (just zoom in and look for the hotel). The sheet that Norris explained says 100% for the location, so I guess we can safely assume that IF there was a call to the BHPD, it was made from the Beverly Hills Hotel.

And why would the location come through as from a 'tower' at the BH Hotel with the BHPD, and exactly INSIDE the mansion on Carolwood Drive for the LAFD? If you look up the latitude and longitude of Carolwood Drive, it takes you to some room at the back of the mansion, IN the house.

So apparently there were two calls: one from the Beverly Hills Hotel, and one from Carolwood Drive. The risk of having police/paps on the scene because of the scanners is a good one, and because of that it seems highly likely that there was no 911 call at all. If half of it is fabricated, why not all of it? If you have a key person in on it at the BHPD, and also at the LAFD, then why call at all? The LAFD could have had instructions to rush to Carolwood Drive at 12:21 that day and a phonecall wouldn't be needed anyway. You could record the callS earlier on, fabricate the screen in the LAFD truck and make it look like there was a call. Then you could fabricate some time record for court that shows what BS this all was (different lat./lon., different audio quality, a transfer call that took 46 minutes while someone was allegedly dying, etc.) And if there was no call at all, you can claim it was made at any time, in this case you could make sure 12:21 would be the time displayed in the media. No risk of paps/police responding to scanners, no risk of cell phones that aren't working, but everything planned and made sure beforehand, which would seem quite logical. That way Michael wouldn't have to be in the house at all to direct the circus, since it was already worked out. He came 'home' from rehearsing but i think he immediately hightailed it and probably took a plane to wherever for a while, since he knew everything around him and his family would be under scrutiny for a few weeks/months and staying in the US would be too risky. If you look at that survaillance footage that they showed in court, you see a car arriving, parking for a few minutes somewhere at the left of the screen, then leaving again. And apparently that could have easily been MJ's car, since the fans seem to gather around it once it leaves.

Then the lights are on all night because they need to prepare the death scene. If I recall right, there were was a picture of the 'death' bed published in 2009 which wasn't the actual scene that we saw later on in the real room. Maybe that picture was a stage scene, given to the ones in the house (Alvarez/Murray) as a guide, so that they would know where to place what and to make sure they wouldn't forget anything. The next day the family goes into the house to make sure everything is in place.

Anyways, I'm drifting off topic. My point is: why make a call at all if the LAFD is in on it? So my option #7: there was no call at all, it was all prepared beforehand.
Wow Souza u are a genius,where would i be without you?You are the best.Reminds me of someone else i know,lol.No 911 call makes a lot of sense,how come i didn't think of that?Total genius u r Souza,i appreciate u,TS,and Front for ur inspiring and innovating posts,ur just awesome,believe that. /bravo/ 
MJ u are so beautiful,inside and out,u truly are a gift from God.I love u,brother.

Offline bec

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 11:53:50 AM
One good reason I can think of doing an actual call that day (not 911, just a call) is for realism later. It's very easy to keep up appearances if what you are talking about actually happened. Alvarez's testimony and statements, Murray's statements on this documentary, they can be describing an actual staged scene as opposed to just a figment of imagination. Recalling an actual event would give their statements a sense of realism, instead of them simply reciting lines.

An actual call also allows the Paramedics to testify accurately to the event of dispatch and response.

Notice I'm supporting a call made, but not supporting a 911 call made. I envision a call made directly to LAFD by someone, a call on which Alvarez then recited his lines, with Murray in the background, which was subsequently recorded as the "official 911 tape".

As far as the discrepancy of lat/lon and the locations of such, two possibilities:

One: "the caller" was on site at the BHHotel and put Alvarez through to LAFD. Although the information supports this theory, I fail to see any benefit to this scenario. That might change going forward.

Two: the BHHotel lat/lon was included as a clever clue that would tie in later to the Michael album insert where HT lyrics were written on the hotel's stationary. In other words, it was just a clue designed to be uncovered in the course of investigation by hoaxers.

I'm leaning towards possibility two currently.

Ps. It seems very in character for MJ to be on site for this entire production. Throughout the years he seems the type to be directly involved in all aspects of his work, and not one to direct remotely. For that reason, I lean towards MJ being on scene at Carolwood, and I still favor him being "the body" that went to UCLA that day. The kid in me wants to think he took the helicopter ride, and performed the grand finale of jumping out of the back of the coroner van too  :mrgreen:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 12:00:48 PM by bec »
Are you entertained?

Offline applehead250609

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 11:58:39 AM
Quote
Gina:
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?

Gina my friend I hope my question it will not offend you  :(.
Please tell me why do you ask so many questions ,why do you EVEN CARE to ask ,IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU DO???? Tell me Gina,do you like what you do,do you like looking for HOAX CLUES  albino/???
Well if you like what you do,I have some news for you  :( .Latoya already told us that ALL IS AN ILLUSION,aka a RABBIT HOLE,aka A DEAD END  /cook/.It will never END Gina,NEVER,do you really want to stay in WONDERLAND forever,tell me??? Looking for CLUES,is actually FEEDING you OWN EGO,and that means your DARK SIDE  :(.Soon you will have to choose once and for all,betewn DARK or LIGHT !!!!

Offline ForstAMoon

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:24:28 PM
a bit off-topic but still related

what a coincidental title on TMZ just now:

"Ashton Kutcher
 I Can No Longer Think for Myself"



Offline BeTheChange

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:26:30 PM
LOL Applehead...your post made me  :lol:.  I get exactly what you're saying and I'm ALL for the 'bigger' (more important) 'picture' to all this.  Still, it is an adventure and someone ( ;) ) went to a great deal of trouble, and continues to, to provide us with clues/hints/whispers/guidance...whatever you want to call it.  So there's nothing wrong with appreciating and engaging in that 'aspect' of the hoax as well.

I, personally, do not visit many threads on the forum that deal with 'tabloid' articles...with the occasionally exception of TMZ articles.  I also have not watched one minute of HLN or any other 'TV media' since the verdict was read.  Instead, I choose to spend my 'free' time watching and listening to things that help teach me something or help expand my mind/heart or help to provide me with an 'escape' for a short while.  And that includes watching the 'master at work'...and trying to 'piece' together the puzzle he's created...if only to get a tiny glimpse into his brain.

Also, Applehead...I LOVE the videos you keep finding and sharing with us (my latest fav is the one you posted with him backstage and Rihanna meeting him...loved it!).  Thanks for your loving spirit and for your ability to find vids that I've never seen before  /bravo/

Sorry if this was off-topic....but TS is giving us 'clues' even if it's guised as an explanation for those who continuously fail to debunk him  ;).  So I will continue keeping my main focus on the 'bigger picture'...but will also keep enjoying these 'challenges' into the master's brain.  I always love a great challenge!

With L.O.V.E. always.
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline RK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:49:06 PM
TS it is going to be at least 3 days before I can make a coherent and half way decent attempt at understanding, let alone answering with the forethought this deserves. So in my best terminator voice....I"ll be back.......but right now, I'm about to be off topic [ yet again ]  suspicious//  :? and say that Alberto Alvarez is a very good looking man. I would go so far to say movie star action hero looks. Seems a waste to limit himself to security work.  8-)

Offline Sarahli

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
 /bravo/ thank you TS for all the information, your dedication and hard work (I am sure it's taken so much time to compose this post!).

The time discrepancies noticed tell us that we cannot take the documents presented in court as truthful/accurate and hence the testimonies that go with them, so it's absurd to go by the document presented by Dona Norris and take it as the ultimate truth/reference. Obviously the documents are fabricated because of this timing differences. And it's certainly done on purpose for people to notice.

A good point lies also in the need for the FS71 to have the accurate timing of the 911 call in order to evaluate properly the whole emergency process. They absolutely need to know the "original" time of the call.

Most probably fake 911 calls were made because as said already it goes against the law as there was no real emergency. No need to bring out the Police and Paparazzi... all good points that hint to fakes.

It's also probable that it was staged before like the ambulance picture. Now what about the information displayed on the 911 screen? A first thing is that it's very convenient that a very clear picture has been taken.  suspicious// Then I am wondering if the data can be entered manually? Because if the call was staged before we have to think about that.
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Offline BeTheChange

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:54:08 PM
As far as the discrepancy of lat/lon and the locations of such, two possibilities:

One: "the caller" was on site at the BHHotel and put Alvarez through to LAFD. Although the information supports this theory, I fail to see any benefit to this scenario. That might change going forward.

Two: the BHHotel lat/lon was included as a clever clue that would tie in later to the Michael album insert where HT lyrics were written on the hotel's stationary. In other words, it was just a clue designed to be uncovered in the course of investigation by hoaxers.

I'm leaning towards possibility two currently.

Great points overall bec.  As for the two possibilities for the lat/lon discrepancies....it could be neither but it could be both.  Mike may have wanted the BHHotel to somehow be included as a 'clue' (option 2)...and that is the purpose for having the call routed through that location (option 1).

I'm pretty sure about Alvarez NOT dialing 9-1-1...and I agree that it makes more 'sense' to stage the entire scene on the day of (after having a dress rehearsal 'the other day'  ;) )...that way, as you said, statements/testimonies etc. are more realistic and therefore, more persuasive.  It's not actually 'lying' when recalling 'details' that actually occurred...is it?   :lol:

With L.O.V.E. always.

P.S. @RK  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline Sarahli

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 01:57:37 PM
..... meanwhile Sarahli posts at a superb day/time for me in the UK: 9.11.11 at 9:29 (=11):11  !!!

You're welcome Curls, done especially for you!  lolol/
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Offline Sarahli

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 02:01:00 PM
Quote
I’m just saying that if the MaJician himself could have some secrets about how it was done, and yet not be fake, then just as much or more someone who is not MJ.

Agreed. I always thought that we certainly wouldn't know all the DEtAiLS!  ;)
We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

Offline MsTrinity333

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 02:10:29 PM
I knew that TS was posting because the forum went down.  I told my husband...watch, that's whats happening.  And of course.

YEP! Me too.  Then when it finally came up hubby came home & had to have the computer NOW & do bills. errrr I didn't even get a chance to READ IT!  Man, I could have been one of the first to respond.  /woohoo/ Now I'm on page three... but of course! elvis_/

TS:
7 Possibilities
     #1. The 911 Calls Were Staged
     #2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport
     #3. “ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)”
     #4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez
     #5. The Beverly Hills Hotel
     #6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly
     #7. Think For Yourself
     Which One of the 7?

After all that reading WITHOUT  the help of a glass of wine; All of the above?  Except #6
  geek/

MaJician  :lol: :lol: :lol: Love to you TS.  bearhug
Fide Et Opera

Offline MsTrinity333

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 02:16:21 PM
Look he also has a 7 on this jacket, this is not usual thing is it?



OT with such a cute prisoner I would like to work in a jail LOL!
Seriously, if he got killed I think that song was the reason.

His jacket here also has the same "vines" which surround the "mysterious" face in the ambulance picture
;)

Yes!  I thought the exact same thing and posted it up on another thread...but I can't remember which one anymore.
  party/
Fide Et Opera

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 02:47:04 PM
Quote
Gina:
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?

Gina my friend I hope my question it will not offend you  :(.
Please tell me why do you ask so many questions ,why do you EVEN CARE to ask ,IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU DO???? Tell me Gina,do you like what you do,do you like looking for HOAX CLUES  albino/???
Well if you like what you do,I have some news for you  :( .Latoya already told us that ALL IS AN ILLUSION,aka a RABBIT HOLE,aka A DEAD END  /cook/.It will never END Gina,NEVER,do you really want to stay in WONDERLAND forever,tell me??? Looking for CLUES,is actually FEEDING you OWN EGO,and that means your DARK SIDE  :(.Soon you will have to choose once and for all,betewn DARK or LIGHT !!!!


 /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ Applehaead!

As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!

Offline JMseesMJ

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:26:21 PM


As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!



Thank you mjj4ever777, I haven't read such a good post for a long time ! I was waiting for that, keep it coming.

 “Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies.”
 Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:33:58 PM


As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!



Thank you mjj4ever777, I haven't read such a good post for a long time ! I was waiting for that, keep it coming.



God Bless You JMseesMJ!!! Don't worry...I won't give up...Once you "See the LIGHT", there is no turning back!!
I LOVE YOU...we are ONE, we are LOVE... I'm just another part of YOU!!!
 bearhug...Know how much you are appreciated and LOVED!!!!

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:35:19 PM
Quote
Gina:
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?

Gina my friend I hope my question it will not offend you  :(.
Please tell me why do you ask so many questions ,why do you EVEN CARE to ask ,IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU DO???? Tell me Gina,do you like what you do,do you like looking for HOAX CLUES  albino/???
Well if you like what you do,I have some news for you  :( .Latoya already told us that ALL IS AN ILLUSION,aka a RABBIT HOLE,aka A DEAD END  /cook/.It will never END Gina,NEVER,do you really want to stay in WONDERLAND forever,tell me??? Looking for CLUES,is actually FEEDING you OWN EGO,and that means your DARK SIDE  :(.Soon you will have to choose once and for all,betewn DARK or LIGHT !!!!


I am not sure I understand what you mean.
So I don't know what to say.
I don't have an ego to feed, I just desperately need to know for sure that MJ is alive, the alternative being terribly unfair and cruel.

....where are the days when everything was crystal clear...?



Offline curls

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:37:24 PM
@mjj4ever777 - that's kind of funny reading your post just now, because an hour or so ago I composed, but didn't send, a post, basically saying that I don't see the point any more in trying to figure out hoax details of things like the 911 call.

TS has shown over and over that documents and evidence can be and have been falsified. We apparently are not meant to know, now, or maybe ever, all the ins, outs, hows, whys and wherefores, and no amount of 'thinking for ourselves' is going to get us total hoax/illusion understanding.

So in the post I didn't send I was basically saying I have nothing to contribute to this thread!

I didn't want to come over as negative, which is why I didn't send it! I also don't want to belittle the obvious effort TS puts into all such posts, he obviously sees a need.

(I was also going to say that I have thought on more than one occasion that the hoax will not end until WE leave it alone!)

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:44:48 PM
mjj4ever who waits for TS to give answers?
We can see Michael's messages very well, we are not that dumb. His messages are all over his music, one has to be quite thick not to understand the messages, even if it's  to pick them up only from songs like They don't care about us, Man in the mirror, Cry, We've had enough, Jam and I could go on like this with many other masterpieces.
But this has nothing to do with him being dead or alive.

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:47:16 PM
(I was also going to say that I have thought on more than one occasion that the hoax will not end until WE leave it alone!)

See, this is what I call a very rich imagination. I also fall into this trap often.

Offline Ijustcantstoplovingu

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 03:57:26 PM
Quote
Gina:
By reading this post of TS I had the same old feeling when reading TS before, the same old questions and things that puzzle me.

Why TS did all these?
Why TS spent so much time to keep TIAI "alive" for so long?
Why so much effort/work?
Why is it so important to TS that we believe?
Why is TS disappointed if we stop believing or have doubts?
Why is it so important to TS to not lose believers?
Why TS is not giving up?

Gina my friend I hope my question it will not offend you  :(.
Please tell me why do you ask so many questions ,why do you EVEN CARE to ask ,IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU DO???? Tell me Gina,do you like what you do,do you like looking for HOAX CLUES  albino/???
Well if you like what you do,I have some news for you  :( .Latoya already told us that ALL IS AN ILLUSION,aka a RABBIT HOLE,aka A DEAD END  /cook/.It will never END Gina,NEVER,do you really want to stay in WONDERLAND forever,tell me??? Looking for CLUES,is actually FEEDING you OWN EGO,and that means your DARK SIDE  :(.Soon you will have to choose once and for all,betewn DARK or LIGHT !!!!


 /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ Applehaead!

As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!


Excellent post, I agree 1000%     /bravo/


LOVE IS THE ANSWER to it all.  That is it!   


Thank you TS whom ever you are, for shepherding us along the long and winding road to the truth.


I love you all I really do.


I have faith we with reach the truth in due course.


 typing/

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 04:04:39 PM
 lolol/

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 04:09:35 PM
So many BIG things spoken here.
You guys can all give lessons of love.
But Michael is the one who gives lessons without giving lessons. Simple and natural like breathing. Because he is the lesson.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 04:20:46 PM
According to Jermaine in his book, Michael's name in nimbers is 777. I wonder if and how we can work this in here.  8) /pull hair/

The only name that will give you 777=21 is this  8-):

MICHAEL =7
BRANDON=7
JACKSON= 7


joseph too
Some men see things as they are and say: WHY?
I dream things that never were and say: WHY NOT?

Offline applehead250609

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 04:50:11 PM
LOL Applehead...your post made me  :lol:.  I get exactly what you're saying and I'm ALL for the 'bigger' (more important) 'picture' to all this.  Still, it is an adventure and someone ( ;) ) went to a great deal of trouble, and continues to, to provide us with clues/hints/whispers/guidance...whatever you want to call it.  So there's nothing wrong with appreciating and engaging in that 'aspect' of the hoax as well.

I, personally, do not visit many threads on the forum that deal with 'tabloid' articles...with the occasionally exception of TMZ articles.  I also have not watched one minute of HLN or any other 'TV media' since the verdict was read.  Instead, I choose to spend my 'free' time watching and listening to things that help teach me something or help expand my mind/heart or help to provide me with an 'escape' for a short while.  And that includes watching the 'master at work'...and trying to 'piece' together the puzzle he's created...if only to get a tiny glimpse into his brain.

Also, Applehead...I LOVE the videos you keep finding and sharing with us (my latest fav is the one you posted with him backstage and Rihanna meeting him...loved it!).  Thanks for your loving spirit and for your ability to find vids that I've never seen before  /bravo/

Sorry if this was off-topic....but TS is giving us 'clues' even if it's guised as an explanation for those who continuously fail to debunk him  ;).  So I will continue keeping my main focus on the 'bigger picture'...but will also keep enjoying these 'challenges' into the master's brain.  I always love a great challenge!

With L.O.V.E. always.

BeTheChange God bless you my friend  :)!!!Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your wonderful words you said me.You know sometimes is hard to let THE MASK down,in front of people,because of the fear ,that once you will do it,they will laugh and ridicule you.Well Michael was/is BRAVE and had THE COURAGE to do it.Remember what he said in his poem "COURAGE"???

Quote
COURAGE

It's curious what takes courage and what doesn't. When I step out on stage in front of thousands of people, I don't feel that I'm being brave. It can take much more courage to express true feelings to one person. When I think of courage, I think of the Cowardly Lion in The Wizard of Oz. He was always running away from danger. He often cried and shook with fear. But he was also sharing his real feelings with those he loved, even though he didn't always like those feelings.
That takes real courage, the courage to be intimate. Expressing your feelings is not the same as falling apart in front of someone else -- it's being accepting and true to your heart, whatever it may say. When you have the courage to be intimate, you know who you are, and you're willing to let others see that. It's scary, because you feel so vulnerable, so open to rejection. But without self-acceptance, the other kind of courage, the kind heroes show in movies, seems hollow. In spite of the risks, the courage to be honest and intimate opens the way to self-discovery. It offers what we all want, the promise of love.

Today with all my heart I tell you all,that for the first time in my life I have the COURAGE to say what I feel inside me.I want to SCREAM and SHOUT,and tell everybody how BEAUTIFUL LIFE is WHEN LOVE is around.Michael and you all,the people of this forum helped me to find myself  ;) and find the REAL MEANING OF LIFE.This is just THE BEGINING,and now I understand that,it's the begining of something beautiful,yet so hard when you look around and realize that many people LIVE for the WRONG REASON.You feel that nobody understands you and right in that moment you know what Michael felt,you are in his SHOES.
Gina asked TS some questions,and I think that the REAL question has not been even asked.Does anybody here remember why we came here in the first place???? Does anybody even care why We felt what We felt on 25 june 2009  :cry:??? We are all waiting for Michael to COME BACK ,but has anybody thought that maybe he never LEFT at all,and it was US that didn't care about his presence  :cry:!!!!! He was always HERE,but we didn't care,because Michael was actually US.We had been Lost with things,material things and we forgot what it is to be human,to feel LOVE insinde,TO LIVE PURE and SIMPLE!!! He IS/WAS a part of US,always was.We were/are ONE.That's why we cried in 25 june 2009,that's why we felt LOST and confused  :cry: ,.because HE WAS ALL OF US,and WE are HIM  :cry: .Together WE ARE ONE=LOVE.
This is THE BIG MESSAGE Michael is trying to send us,THISSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!OMG  :cry:
That's why it's exist TS,FRONT,BACK, don't you understand???????


Dancing the dream poem- I,You,We were never apart        = WE ARE ONE=LOVE 
Another part of me song - You are just another part of me

« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 05:00:15 PM by applehead250609 »

Offline Dontwalkaway

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 05:31:06 PM
If "Life is a Movie", then everything is staged.  You can make the movie anyway you want.   TMZ is in on the hoax and probably others so they will report it.  Others don't check everything or anything.  Almost everyone believes it and the job is done !!!!!    That's just my guess about this.  To be honest I haven't investigated all of these numbers very closely.    I am going with numbers 1 and 7 although I think MJ got to the airport. 

Love
"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

Offline Do

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 05:36:39 PM
I love the above posts about love, because I know and feel it's that what it's all about. The details of the hoax never bothered me. I never wanted to know how, but why. That's why I hardly read TS's detailed posts (I'm sorry TS, it's not personal!) I do understand there is a bigger picture, but I keep asking myself how BIG the 'picture' really is. I cannot fathom the whole 'revolution of love', because I can't see how we can accomplish it (except in our own lives ofcourse!). There are so many terrible things in our world, the big crisis that hits so many peoples' lives, people who are struggling to put a meal on the table for their children, the dissasters of nature, the treath of a nucliare war between Israel and Iran, I can go on and on and I ask myself: What can we DO to stop that? Do we have that power? Is love enough to stop all of that? To many people are too asleep or too frightened to be able to 'move'. Michael couldn't do it by himself, but neither can we. The odds are too big. A change is only possible if we unite and it does not work without our (world)leader. That's why I also believe that Michael is not only a human, but also a divine power. I believe it's not possible to accomplish this total revolution on such a big scale without God's help and the love for eachother.That's why I'm looking so forward to the day of Michael's comeback, because I know that will be the start of the real change and the big awakening.
I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say. Love you!

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
Bertrand Russel

Offline Dontwalkaway

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 05:45:41 PM
I am with you again MJJ4ever777 !!!!!   My mind is not on debunking something.  It's on "why" this was done.  It's to heal the world.  First we had to see that everything is an illusion and we are controlled and brain washed.  We just have to face the truth because that's the only way to change it.  We were shown that we can think for ourselves and we have power in numbers.   We are all connected.   

We can have peace and love in the world if we all put our minds to it and work together.  So, come on "army" and let's do it. 


LOVE

"And when that flag blows
There'll be no more wars
And when all calls
I will answer all your prayers"

Chorus from the song "Cry",  Invincible Album

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 05:50:11 PM
@applehead you're a dreamer....but you're not the only one lolol/!!

Of course we are all one, essentially speaking.
Of course God is Love and Love is the most important thing and Love each other is the most important command.

But I will be honest and confess if Michael wouldn't have been so damn desirable, I probably wouldn't have cared about his message of love that much. His story is the most unbelievable in the last 2000 years /white flag/.

See, he is a messenger of God. He had a mission, he wasn't given so much fame for nothing.

ps: I am so scared he is dead because I am very "talented" in sustaining lost causes, that's what I did all my life, why would this time be different?

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:15:00 PM
I think the 911 call was totally staged just like these were staged/prerecorded: ambulance photo, the autopsy photo, the dead MJ on the hospital gurney photo.

All staged to fit in perfectly with Michael's planning, numerology, timing. It meant MJ had total control of it without the risk of outside interference.

The intricate details of the "how" we may never find out, as TS stated:

  "Also, a magician does not give away all of his secrets.  Again, I am not saying that TS is MJ; I’m just saying that if the MaJician himself could have some    secrets about how it was done, and yet not be fake, then just as much or more someone who is not MJ."

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
mjj4ever who waits for TS to give answers?
We can see Michael's messages very well, we are not that dumb. His messages are all over his music, one has to be quite thick not to understand the messages, even if it's  to pick them up only from songs like They don't care about us, Man in the mirror, Cry, We've had enough, Jam and I could go on like this with many other masterpieces.
But this has nothing to do with him being dead or alive.

Exactly Gina...this has NOTHING to do with him being dead or alive...it is about US, believing in ourselves, it's about US Loving ourselves. It's about finding your spirit , and letting it soar, it's about stopping all of the negativity and having a positive outlook in  YOUR life. It's about  finding the real you, and being truly happy in YOUR life, it's about Change....It is all about LOVE!!

Know that you are very Loved Gina!
 bearhug

Offline PureLove

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 06:49:29 PM
#1. The 911 Calls Were Staged

This one sounds very plausible to me. A call was made for real but it wasn't made to BHPD or LAFD. It was staged and it was made to make people listen it. To give more reality to the event.

#2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport

This one doesn't sound plausible to me. Michael could be gone to the airport before the 911 call made BUT he is a perfectionist and I do not believe that he would allow some poeple who are not in on the hoax to rush things and ruin the plan. This is a very long term plan and I'm sure he prepared everything perfectly.

#4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez

This sounds very very possible that the caller was someone else and not Alvarez.

#7. Think For Yourself

This one is the BEST! This is such an amazing ILLUSION and I'm watching it with a big admiration. Why would I want to learn where the MaJician hides the bunny and how he puts it into the hat? The entire illusion would be ruined FOR BOTH SIDES if I learned the secrets of the trick and I don't want to learn it. I LOVE mystery and I love magic!

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 07:34:23 PM
I am with you again MJJ4ever777 !!!!!   My mind is not on debunking something.  It's on "why" this was done.  It's to heal the world.  First we had to see that everything is an illusion and we are controlled and brain washed.  We just have to face the truth because that's the only way to change it.  We were shown that we can think for ourselves and we have power in numbers.   We are all connected.   

We can have peace and love in the world if we all put our minds to it and work together.  So, come on "army" and let's do it. 



LOVE



God Bless You Don'twalkaway! Yes, we are all responsible for the energy we put out into the universe and it our duty to make sure that that energy is positive. This means that we must make a "conscious" effort to be LOVING, and stop being so negative and living your life in Fear.

We need to stop playing the "Blame game" and we need to stop thinking that there isn't anything WE can do, to change the world, because it is too far gone. It breaks my heart knowing that Michael has been trying to get us to Believe in ourselves for so long, yet most, don't really hear his pleas. If we aren't completely happy in our lives, then we really have no one to blame but ourselves, but it seems we have lost the ability to stand on our own two feet, because we have been so "conditioned" by FEAR! We are always running from some kind of "Boogie man", when in reality, fear is just something that we have created in our minds.

Most people don't realize just how powerful the mind is, but they will soon. Soon everyone is going to have to make a choice once and for all. Live in fear and hate your life, or Live in LOVE and enjoy all of the beauty and wonderment of  Life.

Bottom line...we all have a choice of what path we decide to take, no one else can make that choice for you. How YOU decide to live your life is yours and only your responsibility. It is our choice and ours alone!

I chose to live my life with LOVE and I will never change my course!! I LAUGH in the face of fear, because I am LOVE and LOVE always wins in the end!

Sending you much LOVE!!!! Keep posting and BE LOVE, for we are ONE!!!
 bearhug

Offline everlastinglove_MJ

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 07:58:49 PM
Quote
#5. The Beverly Hills Hotel

This scenario is essentially the same as #4, except for the following. Nobody from the BHPD was in on it at the time, and no calls went through them—either on regular lines, or on a cell phone. This would therefore reduce the chances of any police showing up at the scene who were not in on the hoax; and it would also reduce the chances of the situation being broadcast on police radios—which paparazzi could hear on their police scanners, and show up at Carolwood, making it more difficult for Chris to get the magic picture. So instead of calling BHPD, Alvarez called someone waiting at the Beverly Hills Hotel; this person then transferred the call on to LAFD at 12:21:04, much like the description above in #4.
 

Quote
Also, why doesn’t the latitude/longitude on PPP match the LAFD call screen, or the cell tower list?
BHPD (PPP): 34.08167100, -118.414228 (Beverly Hills Hotel)
LAFD call screen: 34.08118800, -118.425086 (100 N Carolwood)
Cell towers: http://www.city-data.com/towers/lmobile-Beverly-Hills-California.html#ixzz1bjAH4jKU
 

TS, yesterday and today, I’ve been reading your challenging post and I admit I’m not a numerology fan and for that reason I've no intention to jump into the number theories (I wouldn't dare .. yep, I'm a coward :mrgreen:). Still, I can’t resist to take the challenge to go for one of the possibilities. Considering the lack of the latitude/longitude match and your scenario, I’ll go for #5. Maybe a tad of #7 because I’m thinking of the exposure purpose of the hoax as well, referring to “Nobody from the BHPD was in on it at the time, and no calls went through them—either on regular lines, or on a cell phone.”, which could indicate that there are inconsistencies or failures in the emergency calls system and cell phones and this should be brought under attention. http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-08/tech/emergency.numbers_1_cell-phone-wireless-carriers-psap?_s=PM:TECH
And this scenario is most hoax convenient, no police and no paparazzi at the scene.
Just my thoughts


It's all for L.O.V.E.

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 08:00:25 PM
 /pull hair/

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 08:51:38 PM
I think some are missing the point. Is it important to know how he pulled it off if you look at the bigger picture? I don't think so. But there is a reason TS puts so much time in posts like this and I think they are highly misunderstood.

It's not important in the end to know how he did it, and as TS says: we probably never get all the answers anyway. So why is he encouraging us to figure it out? Well maybe because he wants to learn you how to think different, how to open your mind and think for yourself. We can all scream in here that it's all for love, but do we really understand what he means by that? What is the bigger picture and will we be able to understand that bigger picture? Will we be able to truly support him, will we be there? We might, if we let him teach us how.

Should we all love our neighbours as we love ourselves and should we all forgive our enemies? Sure we should, but do you honestly need a death hoax for that? Do you think that if MJ pops up, that the whole world will instantly love each other? If you really think that, then it's time to wake up, because that is not going to happen. There is too much evil in this world and until evil is completely ceased out, there will be no peace, or global love for humanity.

A small army can be victorious over a large army, but only if that small army is better armed. That means you have to educate yourself, so that when the time is there to fight, you will know what you are talking about, that you will know what to do and most important: that you know what you're fighting for and that you may know it's worth the battle.

What TS is trying to accomplish (just my opinion, TS may correct me if I'm wrong) is to make us all use our minds to the fullest. If we may understand or at least TRY to understand how MJ pulled off this hoax, our minds will be open to more than just that. You should not just question the 911 call, or the AR, or anything else in this so called 'death' story, but you should question EVERYTHING you have ever been taught in your life. You should look at every event, or every history book exactly the way as you look at this hoax. MJ said it himself, our history books are false. And after 2,5 years of research and study, I KNOW he is 100% right about that, and I have just started. He wants you to wake up and smell the coffee. And TS is trying to make you see how you can wake up, i.e. by using the brain God has given you.

Let me give you some examples first...

Example 1:
I have a horse. I have him since he was a baby and I taught him all he knows. When I move my leg in a certain direction, he knows exactly what I am asking of him. I worked on that for years and it required a lot of patience, but my horse will do exactly what I ask of him, because he knows it's worth it. He has a clean stable, his daily food and a treat every day, because he worked so hard. Besides that (and that he does not know, yet is a fact) his body is stronger and he has less injuries because he uses his body the right way.  Mission accomplished with lots of patience and lots of love. End result: a damn fine and sweet horse that will allow a baby on his back.

Example 2:
I know someone who has a lot of horses. He is not very patient with them and only has them to sell quickly and earn money. His horses do exactly what he asks them to do, because the know that if they don't, he will beat the livin' daylights out of them. They know it's NOT worth the fight, instead of knowing it is worth the work. They will just do as being told, without understanding why they have to do it. Their bodies are build the wrong way which makes them weak and cause lots of injuries. But the buyers don't see that and think they buy a well trained horse, until they take it home and try to treat it with love and patience. Mission 'accomplished' by fear, pain and humiliation. End result: butcher.

Example 3:
My friend has a child. When her kid is behaving badly, she will send him to his room for half an hour, let him scream and shout until he gives up, then asks him down and talks to him. She explains to him why he was sent to his room, what he did wrong and what he should do to be a good boy. On the other hand, when her kid is behaving well, she will tell him that and tell him what a good boy he has been for (for example) helping his mother with the dishes without her having to ask him. This boy knows the different between good and bad, because he has been taught what good is and what bad is. He knows that when he behaves well and helps out his mother, or simply gives her a hug once in a while, that he will get the love and respect from his mother. He also knows that when he behaves badly, that he will have to go to his room without watching Sesamestreet. He's no angel, he still behaves badly once in a while, but he knows pretty damn well what he does wrong and mostly he will say sorry himself now. He's just a normal kid and will see the difference between good and evil later on in life, because his mother taught him how. Mission accomplished with love and patience. End result: a loving and caring person who knows how to think for himself.

Example 4:
I know someone else (who was reported to authorities a few years ago) who has/had a kid. It didn't matter if the kid behaved well or not, when he was in a bad mood, the kid got beatings. There were days when the kid was black and blue, and when I asked her what happened, she said she didn't know and started to cry. She did not know the difference between good or bad, and therefore did nothing at all, she was like a walking zombie, too afraid to say something that might piss her dad off. If he asked her something, she would RUN for him, because if she didn't, he would beat the shit out of her 8-year-old body. She doesn't know the difference between good or bad, because she got disciplined for both, yet she does everything her father tells her and for the outside world, she seems to be the perfect child. Mission accomplished with fear, pain and humiliation. End result: loverboys and drug addiction if no one steps up to save her.

Example 5:
My old theology teacher. I was quite the rebel when I was young, along with 90% of my class and we kicked against everything and everyone. If a teacher didn't have his story straight, he better find another class to teach. We weren't violent, we were simply thinking that school was BS and that they didn't have anything new to tell us. We thought we knew it all (if only I knew then what I know now). If he told us something about one of his lessons, and we questioned the things he told us, he would get angry. We simply had to believe what he said or else he would give us an F and wish us straight to hell. If one of us asked just a little more than the rest, that person would be sent to the principal and had to clean toilets all afternoon (you figure out who in that class saw the most toilets...). End result: a student that had no idea what the lessons were about since she wasn't allowed to question anything, didn't care at all about what the teacher said and had to cheat through her exam.

Example 6:
My old math teacher. I loved math (still do) but I had other things on my mind back then. That resulted in bad grades and more toilet cleaning. But my teacher had seen that I was good at math, and that I liked it IF I only took the time to actually show up. One day I had to go to the principal (again). I always liked that, since he had the best candy on his desk, lol. But this time my math teacher was there and I thought I was in major trouble. Turns out that my math teacher was there to help me. He said he wanted to do some extra classes with me after school was out and that he wanted to give me a chance to redo my exams and undo my bad grades. He explained to me why it was so important to graduate, that I might not understand it then, but I would thank him later. He said that he wanted me to do good in life and that he wanted to help me by at least making sure I would get my diploma. All I had to do for that chance was show up for the extra lessons. For months he gave me extra lessons and let me redo my exams. Whenever I had questions, I could call him at home (we had no email back then, I feel old). Not only did he make sure I graduated, but he also earned my deep respect. End result: A student with an A- for her final exam without cheating.


All the above examples I stated are forms of 'mind control', or conditioning as I always called it. Are all wrong? No. Everyone conditions their pet or child or student for that matter. It's a way of teaching them to know the difference between good and bad and to teach them how to become smarter and by patiently explaining to them why something is good or bad or why they should always do their very best. When we do our jobs well, our pets and children will learn how to treat others and how to love others, and our kids will learn how to become good, caring and loving people who will hopefully raise their kids with the same love and patience.

So there we have good ol' TS. TS with us reminds me of me and my horse, my friend and her son, and my old math teacher with me.... to the power of 10. Never have I seen a person so dedicated, so patient and so caring for other people. Not only has he taught us how to look differently at things, he told us how to treat each other, by always showing grace under fire, never having a foul mouth when addressing opposers, but backing up his claims, hoping they would see the light. If there is anyone who has shown patience, love and unconditional dedication to the members of this forum for their own good, it's TS. I never made it a secret that I have supported him from the start, and I will continue to do so til the bitter end and beyond. If some think that there is an evil agenda because of that, or that TS and I are conspiring to create some mind controlled cult, then either back up your claims or forever hold your peace. If you think that you can wait this whole thing out and are not interested in trying to figure it out so that you might understand that bigger picture (as TS said: we have only scratched the surface), then simply go back to your normal lives and wait for the big BAM. If you want to spread the love, go do that. But if you want to make sure you're well armed, you better hang on and crack your brain some more.

I know how people think about me defending TS too much and I don't care. I mean every single word of it and I am trying to balance it since there seem to be so much resistance and the opposers are harsh. They make no sense and have lame arguments, but man are they mean. I know TS is a tough one and I know he can defend himself and will probably just roll his eyes at the haters and debunkers, but after all he has done for us, even though some might not realise that (yet), he deserves love and respect instead of hate and ridicule. If you think you're someone's puppet, then think hard and try to see who your real puppet master is. Once you have found your answer, you will understand what I just wrote.

@TS: I might be ass kissing a little too much here and don't let it get to your head, but I had to disprove one of your statements here.  :lol: :lol: God knows I meant every single word.  bearhug
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 08:54:45 PM by ~Souza~ »

Offline use_your_illusion

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 09:31:47 PM
I think it's more possible that the 911 call was fake. In the trial as we saw, Alverez story didn't match up, when Chenoff did the timeline from 12:19 to 12:20 when Alverez supposedly made that phone call, it seems impossible that he could do all that in less than a minute (although Walgren said he did them simultaneously), but maybe he could of done that within 12:19-12:20 (if he did really make the call).

Also because this is a hoax, then calling 911 is not necessary, as it isn't a real emergency, or an emergency at all.

Alverez probably didn't make his '911 speech' at 12:20/21 anyway...in his testimony he said that he an Murray moved MJ to the floor during the 911 call, he said something like he was holding the phone with his shoulder against his ear and moved MJ during the call, medics got there 2 min later...then when the medics arrived they said MJ was on the bed and they themselves had to help move him...so I doubt he even called 911 then, especially when he lied about moving MJ to the floor....I mean you would think if you are on the phone trying to save someone's life, you would do as your told and not lie about it...like wth?
Do you give up yet?

Offline BeTheChange

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 11:01:42 PM
Well, after reading all that, gotta say...Souza just might be TS  :lol:  I am just joking, of course, because I don't think for one second that they are the same person...but man, Souza hit that one outta the park  /bravo/ (I had to stop reading for a bit after reading Example #4 cause it made me cry).

I 'get' what others are saying about the 'big picture' and the need to focus on it....most of us have been saying that for a very long time now...i.e. we 'got' the importance of it very early on in the hoax.  And the reason why it went from "he must have done it for a very good reason" to "he DID do it for a very good reason...and here's a few" is because we studied the details.  And the ONE person who taught us to do that is TS (as S.T.U.D.Y. initially).  Did he 'condition' us in order to teach us?  Sure, as any good 'educator' would/does....whether that be a parent, a teacher, a preacher, a mentor, or a coach.  The 'truth' is we have ALL been 'conditioned' mentally, physically, and spiritually in SOME way by SOMEone...every second of our lives.  The second you step out of your little 'bubble', wherever that may be in the world...you are being 'influenced', 'conditioned', and (for the most part) "controlled" by everything and everyone around you (i.e. the matrix)...even if you are unaware of it.  And most of the world isn't....BUT they are waking up.

WE have been awakened by Mike's 'death'....but we're not the only ones who are waking up.  People are taking to the streets all over the world and I would bet that most of them are not 'MJ death hoax investigators'.  I would also bet that ALL the groups out there fighting for a 'better world' had someone who got them thinking, a 'guide' so to speak...it didn't just 'hit them' all at once lol.  And just like they all have their 'guide(s)', we have ours.  TS isn't 'forcing' anyone, nor ever has, to 'take his course'...all he's ever done is give US an alternative to the type of 'conditioning' we've had all our lives.  No one is exempt from 'conditioning'...and you'd be naive to think you are because none of us live in a 'bubble' (although sometimes I wish I did). 

TS, through his teachings (which is what I think of his posts as and yes, I look forward to every single word he writes...because this world is greatly lacking in REAL teachers)...has helped us peel the cobwebs from our eyes and shown us just how conditioned we really are.  He didn't just tell us and he didn't just show us....he HELPED us see it for ourselves, he guided us to see it for ourselves.  If you believe that Mike is speaking to us through TS (and I cannot understand how people can doubt that!)....then it is MIKE'S lessons we are learning and his guidance we are CHOOSING to accept. 

I stated awhile back that, through this adventure, Mike has--in the most intimate of ways---shared himself with us.  He has invited us into his mind....the most intimate, sacred, and most powerful part of himself....in order to 'teach' US how to awaken ours.  YOU can choose to read his every word and try to learn something from it....or if that doesn't interest you, then YOU can choose to ignore it.  But to ignore, undermine, or worse yet bash, TS...just might end up being your real 'wake-up call' come BAMsday....when you realize you're not ready cause you've missed half the lessons.

Mike just might have figured out a way to 'bring love back into the world'..to 'awaken' people to the 'truth' of WHO we all are....at minimum, I believe he's got a 'plan' that he thinks could work.  But he told us long ago that he can't do it by himself....hence his 'army of love'.  Feeling LOVE/spreading LOVE...IS a great thing that everyone should condition/teach themselves to do, if it doesn't come naturally...but it's gonna take more than 'feeling' and 'spreading' love to get through what I can see coming...it's gonna take strength, alertness, passion, dedication, perservence, and a shitload of knowledge to win the battle.  Through TS, Mike has 'taught' us to discover and build-upon these skills within ourselves....skills that can NOT be handed over or spoon-fed...they must be learned. 

Take it or leave it....Mike's given us the freedom to choose.  And as along as TS keeps posting...class has not been dismissed lol.  My advice...well, MJ's really  :lol:: "Study the greats, and [try to] become greater".
 
With L.O.V.E. always.
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

Offline Snoopy71

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 11:13:42 PM
I've been watching this thread and hesitating to remark....So here goes nothing. :?

Please be kind  :oops:

smiley_spider.....Timeline: a sequence of events as related to specific moments in time....so the correct timeline will establish what is true, what is false, and what is logical.

So if there is a predetermined time to call 911, then the 7 scenarios given are merely variables to explain the end result. ex. (1+1=2) (3-1=2) (2+0=2) (2-0=2) etc...

Most of what we see in the world is like a magic trick.  The secret to most "magic" tricks is that the brain naturally trains the eyes to follow "motion/activity". The brain focuses on the moving object, and ignores what is stationary or in the background, thus creating the "illusion".

There is the illusion of the world we've created and then the actual world that exists.  So what is being seen/heard and what is actually happening are not one in the same. There are two reality's. Nothing is real unless it is observed.

....okay...I think I just took a wrong turn and leaped off into the quantum physics pool....I'll just have to let this marinate some more :-\
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 11:43:10 PM by Snoopy71 »

Offline bec

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 10, 2011, 11:25:32 PM
Snoopy, I like where you were going with that. I'll look forward to your elaboration when you're ready.

Comment in general to the community: I wonder if MJ foresaw our ability to dig into every little detail in our attempts to "prove" the hoax. He covered his tracks so well it is virtually impossible to do so. You could even drop the "virtually" from that statement and still be safe.

I guess the answer is "yes". He did foresee it. That's incredible.

In regards to our current assignment, I am learning more every day that I need to trust my instincts as it is only the second guessing that seems to be steering me off course.
Are you entertained?

Offline looking4truth

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 12:18:55 AM
First, I am just loving this thread in general. The variety of thoughts is so refreshing. I wish I can meet people everyday that discuss things this way at least sometimes. (Sadly, it's very hard to have casual deep conversations... they typically just end up casual) Second, I just wanted to quote a very important point that TS written in the original post in this thread that seems to be getting overlooked through most of this thread so far (with the exception of a few).

Quote
Actually, when you have really learned your lesson well, you will question EVERYTHING that you have been taught from a child (news, science, history, religion, etc)—not merely the things which are directly related to MJ and/or this hoax.

I think the above quote is one of the major lessons of this adventure. It's the awareness portion. There appears to be a pattern of sorts with HIStory (whether it's news or science or religion) where there's a story that is told and we believe it as truth because it was taught to us as a child. However, what Michael pointed out in the title is that history is not necessarily FACT, it is a perception of FACT which makes history really HIS story since a lot of these stories are probably conjured up by men.

This adventure is only the beginning of awareness. It is so layered but Snoopy, I think you covered the deeper levels of it. If you think about it: if there was no television or no form of media, no outside influence from parents or peers, the world would be incredibly different because we would be basing our truth on our experience and our experience alone. Everything else would be a non-factor to our own reality.

I am very tired so I am really hoping that something makes sense here. If not, then my apologies and I'll try again tomorrow. I could go on and on but I think it will really sound like babble after awhile so I'll end it here.
Awareness + Awakening = Higher Consciousness

Offline onthewingsoflove

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 12:35:13 AM
Forgive me for the long post but yep the 911 call was fake and here's why:

  To call 911 for any purpose other than to report an emergency could result in criminal penalties. Each state has different penalties for 911 miss use, but in most cases, abuse can lead to jail time and stiff fines. In California it is a misdemeanor under California Penal Code Section 148.3 for any person to willfully use the 911 system for any purpose other than reporting an emergency. It is a felony if someone is injured or dies as a result of emergency service response to a false call.

Using 911 Anywhere in Los Angeles County

The 911 emergency telephone system is in place to assist citizens with POLICE, MEDICAL or FIRE emergencies. It should be realized that non-emergency calls to the 911 system can create delays in handling other very serious emergencies that require immediate attention.
 
 Don't assume the 911 center that answers your cell call will be the agency closest to you. This is especially true when calling from a cell phone. Triangulation (pinpointing a cell call by the nearest local cell tower) is relatively new and only a few locales have this technology in place. Therefore, most emergency calls from cell phones are routed to a central communications center. There, the nature and location of the incident is ascertained and the 911 caller is either transferred to the appropriate agency or the gathered data is disseminated to the agency needing to respond. 

When you dial 911 from a cell phone, don't blurt out a street address and then expect the 911 operator to know which town or city you are in. Chances are they cover a wide area and will need to know your exact location. They will then transfer you to the communications center best suited to help you.
 
 The following are guidelines for the proper use of the 911 system for FIRE and MEDICAL emergencies.


DO NOT CALL 911 FOR NON-EMERGENCY TRANSPORTATION:
Instead, use taxi cabs or call a PRIVATE AMBULANCE listed under AMBULANCE in your local telephone directory.
Examples of NON-EMERGENCY situations are:
 MINOR illness or injury not requiring immediate help
  • Flu/common cold
  • Chronic (ongoing) aches and pain
  • Minor cuts
  • Broken fingers or toes
  • EMOTIONAL UPSETS
  • ROUTINE TRANSPORTATION to medical offices, clinics and hospitals
Remember, these are general guidelines - If there is any doubt, do not hesitate to call the paramedics.

CALL 911 FOR A LIFE-THREATENING EMERGENCY SUCH AS:
 Breathing difficulty/shortness of breath/ breathing has stopped.
  • Choking (can't talk or breathe).
  • Constant chest pain - in adults (lasting longer than two minutes).
  • Uncontrollable bleeding / large blood loss.
  • Drowning.
  • Electrocution.
  • Drug overdose /poisoning.
  • Gunshot wounds, stabbings.
  • Vomiting blood.
  • Sudden fainting /unconsciousness
  • Convulsions / seizures (uncontrolled jerking, movements the patient may fall to the floor).
  • Severe allergic reaction (difficulty breathing / unresponsive)
  • Major burns (white or charred skin: blisters and redness over large area).
  • Someone who will not wake up, even when you shake them.
  • SEVERE injuries from:
  • Traffic accidents
  • Head Injury
  • Significant falls
  • Physical entrapment (i.e. car accident with victim trapped in the vehicle)

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CALL FOR EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ON 911?
911 should only be used when a true emergency exists, "POLICE", "FIRE", or "MEDICAL". Identify your call as a MEDICAL or FIRE emergency and it will be automatically transferred to the appropriate dispatch center. The dispatcher will ELECTRONICALLY RECEIVE the address and telephone number OF THE CALLER.
 However, if you are calling for someone else at a different location, be sure to make that known to the dispatcher.


CRITICAL INFORMATION THE DISPATCHER NEEDS TO KNOW:
 What's the emergency? What's wrong?
  • Where is the emergency? Give the address, include building number, apartment number, nearest cross street.
     The name of the building is also helpful.
  • Who needs help? Age/ number of people.
  • Are they conscious? Yes or no.
  • Are they breathing? Yes or no.

The accuracy of all telephone numbers and addresses must be verified again by the dispatcher.Note: DO NOT HANG UP until the 911 dispatcher tells you to do so. Remain calm and give direct answers to the questions asked. Speak slowly and clearly. You will be asked additional questions so the dispatcher can send the right type of help. All questions are important, even if repetitive.[size=0pt][/size]

The dispatcher may also provide you with CRITICAL PRE-ARRIVAL INSTRUCTIONS, such as CPR (Cardio- Pulmonary Resuscitation) or the Heimlich Maneuver.[size=0pt][/size]Understanding what happens when a 911 call is placed will help the system run more efficiently and will bring you the emergency medical service you need in the shortest possible time.[size=0pt][/size]

HOW YOU CAN HELP BEFORE FIRE DEPARTMENT EMERGENCY RESPONDERS ARRIVE:[size=0pt][/size]
 Assure the patient that help is on the way.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Keep the phone line clear after the 911 call is made.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Direct someone to wait out front to meet the ambulance and lead the way.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Wave a flashlight or turn on flashers of a car or porch light if it's dark or visibility is poor.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Consider having an interpreter if the patient does not speak English.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Secure pets, especially dogs, in a separate area.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Have a visible address, easily readable from the street.[size=0pt][/size]
  • Gather or make a list of medications that the patient is using and give to emergency personnel.[size=0pt][/size]

START FIRST AID[size=0pt][/size]
 Apply direct pressure to the wound if the victim is bleeding.
  • Perform the Heimlich maneuver if a choking victim can't breathe or talk.
  • Begin CPR if the victim has no pulse and has stopped breathing.

Above material adapted from the Los Angeles Police Department and Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.[size=0pt][/size]

  Aldas, Beannu, Benedizione, Benediction, Bendicion, Bencao, Valsignelse, Zegen, Segen, Palaima, Blessings, my friends!


OnTheWingsOfLove

 
"Defender of the faith, Supporter of the Word!"

Offline Jennie

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 12:36:30 AM
According to Jermaine in his book, Michael's name in nimbers is 777. I wonder if and how we can work this in here.  8) /pull hair/

The only name that will give you 777=21 is this  8-):

MICHAEL =7
BRANDON=7
JACKSON= 7


I pulled out my book and I'll quote what he said about #7 in Michael's life, here it is:

Page 43 at the bottom of the 1st paragraph:  "Joe was his middle name as recorded on his birth certificate. His first name was almost Ronald...."
Page 43 beginning of 2nd paragraph:   "Michael was the 7th child with 7 letters in his 1st name and "7" was his favorite number. So, numerically, his name is "777".  And then right away the next sentence is this: "That's the jackpot there. The Lucky 7s. A number that appears only once in the Bible. .......  But "7" was central to his identity. .....  When he doodled on paper, "7" was tagged all over."
This whole page, 43 that is, is very interesting.  I cant help but feel there's something there for us but I cant figure it out. Maybe together we all can.

Offline bec

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 12:55:59 AM

I posted this on the docu thread but since it's relevant here...

Quote from: TS_comments
Dr. Murray cried in court.  So that proves he knows MJ is dead, and he started having some regrets for being part of this colossal murder plot.
 
Speaking of Dr. Murray, Elsa said: "You have won the murder theory TS? Then -like Dr Murray- you have incriminated yourself. The foreknowledge you have shown proves you must be in on the murder plot and this elaborate hoax cover-up."
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20587.msg360454.html#msg360454
 
Well, perhaps I have incriminated myself like Dr. Murray BECAUSE I AM DR. MURRAY!?!?!       
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg365475#msg365475

Quote from: TS_comments
Murray cooperated with the mystery person.  And what if I confess that I am Con-rad Murder-y, and I want to turn myself in—would the court accept that, or dismiss it as hearsay?   
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=20587.msg366252#msg366252

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVnsZalS6Es&feature=related[/youtube]
2:20-2:22 Murray: "I AM THE SOURCE"

 geek/ smiley_spider

Nice one.
Are you entertained?

Offline nick_93

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 01:07:19 AM
Wow! This thread is good! Thank you all for the contributions and your heart felt messages. I can really take a lot from these posts and I'd be interested to know what particular things you think we should be looking at to prepare ourselves. Then again, in saying this I am not really thinking for myself am I if I'm letting others tell me what to do. I guess I just want to know about what I should know about so I can truly be apart of the Army of LOVE. I have been a hoaxer mainly from the start and forgive me as I do struggle to understand certain things in life, that's just me, but I am not going to let anything stop me from spreading Mike's message. So I'm sorry if this in itself is shying away from what I should be doing but what exactly should I know and be researching to help support Mike?

L.O.V.E
"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with.” - Michael Jackson

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 01:59:27 AM
I'm speaking only for myself but I believe there are others in this situation too.
It's not like this hoax/"hoax" awakened me to the realities of this world or to God.I knew it from before, we talked about it in our families many times.
The fact that now it is debated here is just an extension of my/ours previous thoughts.
One of my uncles was a secret services general, retired now, but when we were children we prefered to stay and listen their discussions instead of playing. It's not that now we are waking up. It's a long time since we don't believe too much of what's reported.

It is not random that I and probably others like me are here.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 02:25:57 AM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 02:44:51 AM
Souza, Bethechange, Lookingfortruth, Bec...I could jump through this screen and plant the biggest kiss on you right now!!!!! All I can say is "Thank you", it is a tough crowd and I'm just glad that we are finally moving to the next level. I have been bursting at the seams, with this "energy", and well you know...I'm just glad to have the company. God Bless you guys!!

TS...what I can I say to you that you don't already know? I am so humbled by your Grace, You are the greatest "Teacher". My husband and I are growing stronger and more "perceptive" every second and we welcome the "change" with open arms .Because of my strong belief in LOVE, I somehow  always knew that this would end with LOVE. I have nothing but the deepest respect and Love for you as you are truly "another part of me". You know WE LOVE YOU!

I have so much more to say on this subject, but it is time for me to recharge,as I have been expending a lot of energy lately, and I know that "Balance" is important.

I would like to say that, the gift of LOVE is a gift that will keep on giving. LOVE is who we are, and it is the only thing that IS real! I hope that our other family members will take the time, now that they know how to use their "investigative" skills, and  search for the Truth...The truth that lies within each and every one of you. You are truly "divine" beings of God and Light...You are LOVE, so please, BE LOVE and understand, that we are ONE!!!

I LOVE YOU all so very much.
Blessings on your spirits...may you finally set yourself FREE!!

Offline MJonmind

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:07:19 AM
Souza and BeTheChange thank you so much for your posts! /bravo/ 

Bec,  Conrad Murray-- “The Source”, love it!  Good eyes/ears! The hints and whispers are getter louder!

 TS
Quote
This is not level 7 (this information will be of some value, though, when it’s time for level 7). ..

Unfortunately, even after nearly two and half years, some still have not learned their lesson: “Just because it’s in print, doesn’t mean it’s the gospel”—and that INCLUDES things in print shown at court trials!  After all, do we really believe everything that was shown in court during the 2005 trial?  And if not, then why are some so gullible and accept without question everything stated in this 2011 trial?  Actually, when you have really learned your lesson well, you will question EVERYTHING that you have been taught from a child (news, science, history, religion, etc)—not merely the things which are directly related to MJ and/or this hoax.
 
 Some eagerly accept everything that they see and hear in this trial, without thinking for themselves and questioning the reliability of the evidence presented.  So let’s do some REAL investigation, rather than slapping an “investigation” label on that which is actually nothing better than assuming it’s impossible for documents to be falsified.

Level 7 is coming!   /woohoo/ 
For those of us working on the MJ puzzle, I guess this 911 call is another important piece!

I agree with Gina, that most of us here had already been on the journey of questioning already before we came here, or we would probably be in the J4MJ camp of non-beLIEvers.  Almost all the people around me including my family believe what they hear on the news, in church, and believe what their history books tell them.
Since we were children we had to learn the rules and protocol of society and its structure, so naturally we process all the hoax info with pre-existing ASSumptions. I'm grateful for the many professionals in their fields who have helped our understanding on the many advanced topics scrutinized here. We're in this together!


TS is making the lessons more in depth than ever before so maybe that's a good sign.  We know that MJ was in complete and utter control of every facet of carrying out the death scene, trial and so much more.  Part of his TAKEOVER is having all these professionals such as judges, lawyers, LAFD, telephone companies etc., do their part in making this hoax possible, making fake documents galore--WHATEVER the master wanted them to do.  I think he had them under his spell!  /cook/   (Me too afraid/ !)

About TS, from the very first redirects and posts in Oct 2009, I have LOVED and deeply RESPECTED everything he has said, because EVERYTHING he said (to me) was the EXACT same message I was knowing/sensing that Michael was saying/living (from his words/lyrics/videos, etc).  He has my FULL love and appreciation!  Though rotten stuff has been thrown at him, and the toughest critics tried to dismantle him, he has remained kind, patient and unbeatable.

Reveron1958
Quote
What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?   I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right. 
What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology? 
I know eh!   :lol:    But somehow TS manages!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:30:40 AM by MJonmind »

Offline jono

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 08:24:16 AM
I think some are missing the point. Is it important to know how he pulled it off if you look at the bigger picture? I don't think so. But there is a reason TS puts so much time in posts like this and I think they are highly misunderstood.

It's not important in the end to know how he did it, and as TS says: we probably never get all the answers anyway. So why is he encouraging us to figure it out? Well maybe because he wants to learn you how to think different, how to open your mind and think for yourself. We can all scream in here that it's all for love, but do we really understand what he means by that? What is the bigger picture and will we be able to understand that bigger picture? Will we be able to truly support him, will we be there? We might, if we let him teach us how.

Should we all love our neighbours as we love ourselves and should we all forgive our enemies? Sure we should, but do you honestly need a death hoax for that? Do you think that if MJ pops up, that the whole world will instantly love each other? If you really think that, then it's time to wake up, because that is not going to happen. There is too much evil in this world and until evil is completely ceased out, there will be no peace, or global love for humanity.

A small army can be victorious over a large army, but only if that small army is better armed. That means you have to educate yourself, so that when the time is there to fight, you will know what you are talking about, that you will know what to do and most important: that you know what you're fighting for and that you may know it's worth the battle.

What TS is trying to accomplish (just my opinion, TS may correct me if I'm wrong) is to make us all use our minds to the fullest. If we may understand or at least TRY to understand how MJ pulled off this hoax, our minds will be open to more than just that. You should not just question the 911 call, or the AR, or anything else in this so called 'death' story, but you should question EVERYTHING you have ever been taught in your life. You should look at every event, or every history book exactly the way as you look at this hoax. MJ said it himself, our history books are false. And after 2,5 years of research and study, I KNOW he is 100% right about that, and I have just started. He wants you to wake up and smell the coffee. And TS is trying to make you see how you can wake up, i.e. by using the brain God has given you.

Let me give you some examples first...

Example 1:
I have a horse. I have him since he was a baby and I taught him all he knows. When I move my leg in a certain direction, he knows exactly what I am asking of him. I worked on that for years and it required a lot of patience, but my horse will do exactly what I ask of him, because he knows it's worth it. He has a clean stable, his daily food and a treat every day, because he worked so hard. Besides that (and that he does not know, yet is a fact) his body is stronger and he has less injuries because he uses his body the right way.  Mission accomplished with lots of patience and lots of love. End result: a damn fine and sweet horse that will allow a baby on his back.

Example 2:
I know someone who has a lot of horses. He is not very patient with them and only has them to sell quickly and earn money. His horses do exactly what he asks them to do, because the know that if they don't, he will beat the livin' daylights out of them. They know it's NOT worth the fight, instead of knowing it is worth the work. They will just do as being told, without understanding why they have to do it. Their bodies are build the wrong way which makes them weak and cause lots of injuries. But the buyers don't see that and think they buy a well trained horse, until they take it home and try to treat it with love and patience. Mission 'accomplished' by fear, pain and humiliation. End result: butcher.

Example 3:
My friend has a child. When her kid is behaving badly, she will send him to his room for half an hour, let him scream and shout until he gives up, then asks him down and talks to him. She explains to him why he was sent to his room, what he did wrong and what he should do to be a good boy. On the other hand, when her kid is behaving well, she will tell him that and tell him what a good boy he has been for (for example) helping his mother with the dishes without her having to ask him. This boy knows the different between good and bad, because he has been taught what good is and what bad is. He knows that when he behaves well and helps out his mother, or simply gives her a hug once in a while, that he will get the love and respect from his mother. He also knows that when he behaves badly, that he will have to go to his room without watching Sesamestreet. He's no angel, he still behaves badly once in a while, but he knows pretty damn well what he does wrong and mostly he will say sorry himself now. He's just a normal kid and will see the difference between good and evil later on in life, because his mother taught him how. Mission accomplished with love and patience. End result: a loving and caring person who knows how to think for himself.

Example 4:
I know someone else (who was reported to authorities a few years ago) who has/had a kid. It didn't matter if the kid behaved well or not, when he was in a bad mood, the kid got beatings. There were days when the kid was black and blue, and when I asked her what happened, she said she didn't know and started to cry. She did not know the difference between good or bad, and therefore did nothing at all, she was like a walking zombie, too afraid to say something that might piss her dad off. If he asked her something, she would RUN for him, because if she didn't, he would beat the shit out of her 8-year-old body. She doesn't know the difference between good or bad, because she got disciplined for both, yet she does everything her father tells her and for the outside world, she seems to be the perfect child. Mission accomplished with fear, pain and humiliation. End result: loverboys and drug addiction if no one steps up to save her.

Example 5:
My old theology teacher. I was quite the rebel when I was young, along with 90% of my class and we kicked against everything and everyone. If a teacher didn't have his story straight, he better find another class to teach. We weren't violent, we were simply thinking that school was BS and that they didn't have anything new to tell us. We thought we knew it all (if only I knew then what I know now). If he told us something about one of his lessons, and we questioned the things he told us, he would get angry. We simply had to believe what he said or else he would give us an F and wish us straight to hell. If one of us asked just a little more than the rest, that person would be sent to the principal and had to clean toilets all afternoon (you figure out who in that class saw the most toilets...). End result: a student that had no idea what the lessons were about since she wasn't allowed to question anything, didn't care at all about what the teacher said and had to cheat through her exam.

Example 6:
My old math teacher. I loved math (still do) but I had other things on my mind back then. That resulted in bad grades and more toilet cleaning. But my teacher had seen that I was good at math, and that I liked it IF I only took the time to actually show up. One day I had to go to the principal (again). I always liked that, since he had the best candy on his desk, lol. But this time my math teacher was there and I thought I was in major trouble. Turns out that my math teacher was there to help me. He said he wanted to do some extra classes with me after school was out and that he wanted to give me a chance to redo my exams and undo my bad grades. He explained to me why it was so important to graduate, that I might not understand it then, but I would thank him later. He said that he wanted me to do good in life and that he wanted to help me by at least making sure I would get my diploma. All I had to do for that chance was show up for the extra lessons. For months he gave me extra lessons and let me redo my exams. Whenever I had questions, I could call him at home (we had no email back then, I feel old). Not only did he make sure I graduated, but he also earned my deep respect. End result: A student with an A- for her final exam without cheating.


All the above examples I stated are forms of 'mind control', or conditioning as I always called it. Are all wrong? No. Everyone conditions their pet or child or student for that matter. It's a way of teaching them to know the difference between good and bad and to teach them how to become smarter and by patiently explaining to them why something is good or bad or why they should always do their very best. When we do our jobs well, our pets and children will learn how to treat others and how to love others, and our kids will learn how to become good, caring and loving people who will hopefully raise their kids with the same love and patience.

So there we have good ol' TS. TS with us reminds me of me and my horse, my friend and her son, and my old math teacher with me.... to the power of 10. Never have I seen a person so dedicated, so patient and so caring for other people. Not only has he taught us how to look differently at things, he told us how to treat each other, by always showing grace under fire, never having a foul mouth when addressing opposers, but backing up his claims, hoping they would see the light. If there is anyone who has shown patience, love and unconditional dedication to the members of this forum for their own good, it's TS. I never made it a secret that I have supported him from the start, and I will continue to do so til the bitter end and beyond. If some think that there is an evil agenda because of that, or that TS and I are conspiring to create some mind controlled cult, then either back up your claims or forever hold your peace. If you think that you can wait this whole thing out and are not interested in trying to figure it out so that you might understand that bigger picture (as TS said: we have only scratched the surface), then simply go back to your normal lives and wait for the big BAM. If you want to spread the love, go do that. But if you want to make sure you're well armed, you better hang on and crack your brain some more.

I know how people think about me defending TS too much and I don't care. I mean every single word of it and I am trying to balance it since there seem to be so much resistance and the opposers are harsh. They make no sense and have lame arguments, but man are they mean. I know TS is a tough one and I know he can defend himself and will probably just roll his eyes at the haters and debunkers, but after all he has done for us, even though some might not realise that (yet), he deserves love and respect instead of hate and ridicule. If you think you're someone's puppet, then think hard and try to see who your real puppet master is. Once you have found your answer, you will understand what I just wrote.

@TS: I might be ass kissing a little too much here and don't let it get to your head, but I had to disprove one of your statements here.  :lol: :lol: God knows I meant every single word.  bearhug


Just brilliant.

Souza, you make me proud being a part of "the Army of Love".

Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this!

 bearhug
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein

Offline Adi

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 08:52:02 AM
Yep  "The Source"  ...  I laughed loud when I heard Dr M say that - gotta love that bit in the van in the doco
 
"I am The Source" ... or Dr Con-rad Mur-der-y

 :lol:

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 09:15:48 AM
Conrad Murray can't post now, he's in custody errrr

Offline Adi

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 09:26:29 AM
Conrad Murray can't post now, he's in custody errrr

Do you REALLY believe that Dr M is in custody? If that is the case then you must think MJ is really dead?

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
Conrad Murray can't post now, he's in custody errrr

Do you REALLY believe that Dr M is in custody? If that is the case then you must think MJ is really dead?
But they took him in custody on Monday, I saw it on TV albino/

Offline Adi

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 09:35:15 AM
Conrad Murray can't post now, he's in custody errrr

Do you REALLY believe that Dr M is in custody? If that is the case then you must think MJ is really dead?
But they took him in custody on Monday, I saw it on TV albino/

 :lol:   you are funny Gina

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 09:47:17 AM
Conrad Murray can't post now, he's in custody errrr

Do you REALLY believe that Dr M is in custody? If that is the case then you must think MJ is really dead?
But they took him in custody on Monday, I saw it on TV albino/

 :lol:   you are funny Gina

yeah I'm funny as hell :evil:
Let's see how funny I'll be when I'll put my hands on that crazy kid who caused me so much pain by faking his death :twisted:

Offline bec

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 12:19:04 PM
I don't really believe TS is Murray. But I do believe Murray is Michael metaphorically and so therefore...

well, you follow me.
Are you entertained?

Offline applehead250609

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 01:22:37 PM
Quote
GINA:
@applehead you're a dreamer....but you're not the only one  lolol/ !!

Of course we are all one, essentially speaking.
Of course God is Love and Love is the most important thing and Love each other is the most important command.

But I will be honest and confess if Michael wouldn't have been so damn desirable, I probably wouldn't have cared about his message of love that much. His story is the most unbelievable in the last 2000 years   /white flag/.

See, he is a messenger of God. He had a mission, he wasn't given so much fame for nothing.

ps: I am so scared he is dead because I am very "talented" in sustaining lost causes, that's what I did all my life, why would this time be different?

Gina my friend YES I am A DREAMER,and also a ROMANTIC FOOL  lolol/ ,but please don't forget that Michael is also!!!! Michael DREAMED of a better place for you and for me,and all the children in the world  :cry: . Let's MAKE IT HAPPEN ,Gina,let's SPREAD LOVE and UNITE our families!!!! Michael NEVER gave up,NEVER gave up his DREAMS    8-),so why we should GIVE up??? WHY,tell me???? Because of a STUPID FEAR  :x????
I will never give up to Michael and his dream  :)!!!


Quote
Robert F.Kennedy:
But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'"

The Jacksons - Dreamer
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig2CuYYPszs[/youtube]

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
[ . . . . ]
After all, do we really believe everything that was shown in court during the 2005 trial?
[. . . . . ]













Sorry, I just felt the urge to jump for joy when reading TS ' question! ;)

Offline Sarah31

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 01:56:03 PM
Alverez probably didn't make his '911 speech' at 12:20/21 anyway...in his testimony he said that he an Murray moved MJ to the floor during the 911 call, he said something like he was holding the phone with his shoulder against his ear and moved MJ during the call, medics got there 2 min later...then when the medics arrived they said MJ was on the bed and they themselves had to help move him...so I doubt he even called 911 then, especially when he lied about moving MJ to the floor....I mean you would think if you are on the phone trying to save someone's life, you would do as your told and not lie about it...like wth?



"50 year old found supine on floor" Senneff just didn't remember that right, Alvarez wasn't lying.

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 02:33:55 PM
I think I'm tired... 'cause I'm lost in the reading of Timing Discrepancies presented by TS.
Too many numbers, too many details, too many names, abbreviations....sorry it's impossible for me to follow that much info , especially those exact tiny little details.
But in great lines, the main idea is that there are indeed so many discrepancies for their testimonies to be true!!

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 03:09:45 PM
My mind is going in circles while reading the 7 scenarios!!

I am again and again amazed by the genius mind who was able to conceive all this plan ! and also put IT into "the above entitled ACTION" [sorry I needed to say that, I just loved listening to the "ALLEGED" verdict over and over again!! :lol: ]

All that planning, the numerology, the 7 possible versions, the logical explanations...
I just need to wait and reflect like half an hour for each of the 7 scenarios.... I don't even want to think about how long would it take me to come up with an 8th !  :? and also 'debunk" the rest of the 7!??  :shock: lmao  :lol: i mean you need to be a genius just to fully understand what TS wrote in that message and then a DOUBLE-genius to be able to debunk that!! 
I feel so small [not to say stupid], even frustrated because I can't get it all!! I may need to re-re-re-re-read all that and hopefully I will eventually manage to comprise the full understanding.

So I just don't get it how can some people still talk like they know everything? and still dare say TS does not know what he's talking about?
 remains mystery to me....

Quote from: TS
Nevertheless, think for yourself; and with the information that I have provided here, see if you can come up with a scenario that I have not specifically described—there is at least one more possibility (and probably several more).
I feel like when I was in school and nobody in the class knew the answer to the teacher's questions! We were all like ....
This all seems to me like a mind exercise, a very difficult one!! I think not even the detective training department at the Police Academy comes up with such good training exercises for their students!  :lol: After this hoax is over, if I pass the "exam", I want my hoax-detective diploma!!  bounce/

I must confess I am so tired after a hard week [on all aspects], I can't concentrate and I'd really like to REALLY and FULLY understand , analyze, all the 7 scenarios. But in the end I wonder what would be the purpose? The 911 call is just a ONE piece of the puzzle, along with SOOOO many others! What's the point in breaking my head with a thousand scenarios when I know it's all a GIANT, GENIUS, GORGEOUSLY made HOAX !! and you can add all the G adjectives you may know!!  ;)

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 03:46:07 PM
What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/
What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr
Numbers can not lie, 1+1=2 no matter what. So numbers can be used to send a clear message, that something is planned in advance. It's like a code, as simple as that.
The easiest way to send messages from beyond the "grave".
So it is used to send us messages, is that the only purpose? [....]
I'd like to try and answer to your question. I'm sure there are several possible reasons to explain the intense use of numerology both by Elvis and Michael. And my versions of answer may not be necessarily the correct ones, that's why I said I'd try...
But before I do that, I'd like to know if you believe in God.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:08:29 PM
So many BIG things spoken here.
You guys can all give lessons of love.
But Michael is the one who gives lessons without giving lessons. Simple and natural like breathing. Because he is the lesson.
I agree ! ;)

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:20:48 PM
@TS : I need to  say this again: You just killed my last neuron with your post here! You gave us "thinking-homework/material" for undetermined period of time!


@Wishingstar, BeTheChange & MjonMind - I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU  bearhug bearhug bearhug


@Gina: you intrigue me, you are a very interesting person ;) I think you are MORE clever than you're letting people know! You have more self-confidence than you're showing. I think your questions are not always expressing what you don't know/understand, but rather what you DO know/understand ;) Continue to ask questions and say what you think, in your own special way! ;) I think you have a different way of proving to yourself / others that Michael is alive and that is : by trying to prove the opposite! loll it's rather strange, but I think I now can get you! tell me if I'm wrong in believing this about you!

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:35:48 PM
What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/
What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr
Numbers can not lie, 1+1=2 no matter what. So numbers can be used to send a clear message, that something is planned in advance. It's like a code, as simple as that.
The easiest way to send messages from beyond the "grave".
So it is used to send us messages, is that the only purpose? [....]
I'd like to try and answer to your question. I'm sure there are several possible reasons to explain the intense use of numerology both by Elvis and Michael. And my versions of answer may not be necessarily the correct ones, that's why I said I'd try...
But before I do that, I'd like to know if you believe in God.

I'm an agnostic but brought up Catholic.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:42:10 PM
[ . . . . ]
After all, do we really believe everything that was shown in court during the 2005 trial?
[. . . . . ]

Sorry, I just felt the urge to jump for joy when reading TS ' question! ;)

Simpa I saw it also lol  lolol/ ,but believe me no one even NOTICED,because they "don't BELIEVE" in the first place.Second,they are to concentrated at what TS is telling them,lol  lolol/ ! It doesen't matter anyway because in THE END ,they will had no other option,but to WAKE UP  :)!!! By the way I want to SHOUT that I LOVE everyone here  :)!!!!!











« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:48:24 PM by applehead250609 »

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:46:45 PM

@Wishingstar, BeTheChange & MjonMind - I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU  bearhug bearhug bearhug


Love you too SimPatty  bearhug

Maybe you can join me, WishingStar and MJonMind for a little Experience dance-off  :lol:

With L.O.V.E. always.
The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 04:50:21 PM
@BetheChange: be sure I already joined you guys in your Experience game, if not for real, at least in my heart and / or virtually! [I'm now dancing on Billy Jean, and you? ] :p  :lol:


What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/
What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr
Numbers can not lie, 1+1=2 no matter what. So numbers can be used to send a clear message, that something is planned in advance. It's like a code, as simple as that.
The easiest way to send messages from beyond the "grave".
So it is used to send us messages, is that the only purpose? [....]
I'd like to try and answer to your question. I'm sure there are several possible reasons to explain the intense use of numerology both by Elvis and Michael. And my versions of answer may not be necessarily the correct ones, that's why I said I'd try...
But before I do that, I'd like to know if you believe in God.

I'm an agnostic but brought up Catholic.
You're answer confuses me.
Agnostic- means you don't believe in God
Catholic - means you do.
Which way is it? Believer or not?

It's very important for me to know, because if you don't believe in God , than I'm afraid you will never understand numerology. It's closely related to God and believing in HIM !! to the way this world was/is created! based on numbers! The Bible is also structured based on that! Think about all the sciences that allowed the modern technologies: all based on exact [numbers] sciences! Even this HOAX is a science in itself!! created by a GENIUS mind based on divine numbers!! Nothing in this universe could exist without numbers.
I loved Gina's answer: numbers are a language in themselves! It is said mathematicians communicate in their own way, because they see the world different;y, they see it in numbers and exactities. There's so much more to say, things that I didn't have time to study myself either, since I began discovering numerology only since this hoax and TS comments, and Jesse [Elvis] letters. But after all that, the first I think about when Numerology is brought up, is GOD !!



I think some are missing the point.
[....]
[....]
[....]
I loved reading your long post ! Thank you for sharing all that!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:53:39 PM by SimPattyK »

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 05:10:53 PM
[...]
[...]
[...]
TS, through his teachings (which is what I think of his posts as and yes, I look forward to every single word he writes...because this world is greatly lacking in REAL teachers)...has helped us peel the cobwebs from our eyes and shown us just how conditioned we really are.  He didn't just tell us and he didn't just show us....he HELPED us see it for ourselves, he guided us to see it for ourselves.  If you believe that Mike is speaking to us through TS (and I cannot understand how people can doubt that!)....then it is MIKE'S lessons we are learning and his guidance we are CHOOSING to accept. 

I stated awhile back that, through this adventure, Mike has--in the most intimate of ways---shared himself with us.  He has invited us into his mind....the most intimate, sacred, and most powerful part of himself....in order to 'teach' US how to awaken ours. YOU can choose to read his every word and try to learn something from it....or if that doesn't interest you, then YOU can choose to ignore it.  But to ignore, undermine, or worse yet bash, TS...just might end up being your real 'wake-up call' come BAMsday....when you realize you're not ready cause you've missed half the lessons.
[...]
[...]
[...]

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 05:23:30 PM
@BetheChange: be sure I already joined you guys in your Experience game, if not for real, at least in my heart and / or virtually! [I'm now dancing on Billy Jean, and you? ] :p  :lol:


What puzzles me is why all this attention to the numerology of everything?  WTF??  I have enough trouble trying to fit everything I need to do for work/house/family into the day.  Just imagine you had to check what you were doing to the precise millisecond to make sure the numbers were right.  /pull hair/
What are the benefits of doing everything by numerology?  errrr
Numbers can not lie, 1+1=2 no matter what. So numbers can be used to send a clear message, that something is planned in advance. It's like a code, as simple as that.
The easiest way to send messages from beyond the "grave".
So it is used to send us messages, is that the only purpose? [....]
I'd like to try and answer to your question. I'm sure there are several possible reasons to explain the intense use of numerology both by Elvis and Michael. And my versions of answer may not be necessarily the correct ones, that's why I said I'd try...
But before I do that, I'd like to know if you believe in God.

I'm an agnostic but brought up Catholic.
You're answer confuses me.
Agnostic- means you don't believe in God
Catholic - means you do.
Which way is it? Believer or not?

It's very important for me to know, because if you don't believe in God , than I'm afraid you will never understand numerology. It's closely related to God and believing in HIM !! to the way this world was/is created! based on numbers! The Bible is also structured based on that! Think about all the sciences that allowed the modern technologies: all based on exact [numbers] sciences! Even this HOAX is a science in itself!! created by a GENIUS mind based on divine numbers!! Nothing in this universe could exist without numbers.
I loved Gina's answer: numbers are a language in themselves! It is said mathematicians communicate in their own way, because they see the world different;y, they see it in numbers and exactities. There's so much more to say, things that I didn't have time to study myself either, since I began discovering numerology only since this hoax and TS comments, and Jesse [Elvis] letters. But after all that, the first I think about when Numerology is brought up, is GOD !!

I don't normally discuss religion LOL but I will briefly explain that I was brought up as a practising Catholic (until about 13-14), but would now describe myself as an agnostic.

An atheist does not believe in God, but an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God.

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 05:45:36 PM
@reveron1958: Ok I see...
I understand the difference between an atheist and an agnostic [the way you said it]

But in my opinion, atheist=agnostic.
Because to me it's simple: you either believe in God or NOT.
There's no middle way here.
Faith in GOD exists or NOT.

I believe agnostics like to consider themselves somewhere between believers and atheists.
But as I said , to me there is no difference.

Don't misunderstand me please. I do not judge anyone. You're free to choose what you like to be: believer, agnostic, atheist, catholic or whatever.

The point is that I strongly believe you need to have faith in GOD if you truly desire to understand what numerology is all about and why it has been used so intensely in this hoax. Since this where our discussion started: from your questions about numerology.  And I think I gave you an answer above. But if you are interested , do your own research, you are the one who can find the best answers to your questions. I'm telling you this from my own experience regarding numerology. I was also skeptic at start, until I started to search for myself what it was all about! of course in relation to the hoax and then you reach to deeper meanings too!!

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:10:16 PM

@Gina: you intrigue me, you are a very interesting person ;) I think you are MORE clever than you're letting people know! You have more self-confidence than you're showing. I think your questions are not always expressing what you don't know/understand, but rather what you DO know/understand ;) Continue to ask questions and say what you think, in your own special way! ;) I think you have a different way of proving to yourself / others that Michael is alive and that is : by trying to prove the opposite! loll it's rather strange, but I think I now can get you! tell me if I'm wrong in believing this about you!

Simpatik please never say about me again I'm clever. Sometimes I am so stupid that I can not believe myself. But it's OK because this way I don't have to live up to the "clever" standard all the time and it feels so good sometimes, to be plain stupid, you know, it's relaxing.
But you are right about a few things above, you took me by surprise, really, you understand :shock:
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:13:39 PM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline JMseesMJ

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:21:01 PM
Unfortunately written words are prone to misinterpretation, so it won't be much different in this case. 

Nonetheless I am sharing some of my thoughts with you once more. 
I am in high spirits today and I'm glad to see an 'independent thinker' commenting occasionally. Some of you are willing to turn away from the mere hunt for the ultimate proof, you are trying to look beyond the "hows" and that is how it should be. In order to understand Michael's motivation for having done this, you don't need teachings based on numerology or meticulous detail, nor do you need to conjecture and believe that clues are hidden everywhere, it's unnecessary. You are well equipped to figure it out for yourself, even if you haven't read a single page on any forum, you also don't need any guide, who is going round in circles anyway.
The layout is simple and self-explanatory. I recognize that an added game/fun/education element (present especially in this forum) might be appealing to the younger ones of you or it might function as a self-protection mechanism to prevent pain, when you begin to see the bigger picture - Michael's truth.
You might like to ask yourself, who added this element and why. If you, as potential independent thinker, want to gain grounds again on this territory, you should "...question EVERYTHING...". Me quoting the member's favourite indoctrinator, who'd have thunk.


The main characters here, are so consumed with their own ego and with what they want to achieve; their propaganda speaks volumes, and they think this is going unnoticed. They are missing out on the most important matter(s), while putting all their time and effort into their own game, sorry aim. 
Some bubbles are in danger of bursting.... 

If you are not quite sure, what I am talking about, I recommend you to read my other posts, won't take long, there aren't that many ;) before they'll get deleted.
You'll understand then, I hope.
For the ones, who think that post-count equals rookie, I assure you, that ain't correct. I've been on that journey from day one, literally. Saw and learned a lot !

There is just one other little thing that I want to mention. 
The forum-innate informers like to disguise their intention with the noble cloak of initiating awareness and awakening in people using Michael's 'death' for it. Their conduct seems impeccable, or should I say slick, their words are well chosen and the things they say seem plausible, but beware, their methods are shady. Why aren't they putting ALL their cards on the table, for everyone to see ? For the sake of creating mystery, gathering followers maybe ? Adulation makes you feel good, right ? 
Oh, of course, they can't reveal themselves, they must be Michael Jackson so. 
You wish !





Best
JMseesMJ





P.S.: Souza, I suggest you rename your forum soon, your current title is misleading, it still has the name Michael Jackson in it. Presumptuous.
Here are some suggestions:  "Education Hoax, WE think for Yourselves" or "Our Masterclass in Life, The Universe and Everything", maybe "Numerology - The Answer You Were Looking For" or how about "Free Brainwash, Unnoticed Manipulation Guaranteed", you know, something along those lines.
FYI, I don't need to back up anything, my words are true and you know it.   
You might like to tell the new members, what I am referring to. Just some keywords: the beginnings of TIAI, mysterious informer "Bob" and the TMZ connection, the fall out between you and Mo, alleged forum 'hacks' and the list goes on...  

Some keywords are touched upon in TIAI update # 6.5 from pg. 6 onward http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.125

The beginnings were good Souza, but then you took the wrong turn, chose the wrong team; dead end, time will tell.
If through your methods people really discover themselves and who they are, then I am just speechless and think it is a sad reflection of our society. It's in a state worse than I thought.
 “Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies.”
 Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:43:40 PM
I don't really believe TS is Murray. But I do believe Murray is Michael metaphorically and so therefore...

well, you follow me.

EXACTLY bec! Yes, TS wrote in the previous thread that he is Murray and now Murray says he is The Source but it is written and said metaphorically. I do also believe that Murray represents Michael in this case.

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:45:44 PM

Oh, of course, they can't reveal themselves, they must be Michael Jackson so.
You wish !


So where's Michael Jackson Je bangbang?
Anybody knows?
Souza knows? Or maybe TS?
You know where he is Je?

Anybody in this wide world knows /pull hair/?

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:48:38 PM
But I should calm down and relax because the truth will FINALLY prevail. I strongly believe this.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:54:17 PM
Unfortunately written words are prone to misinterpretation, so it won't be much different in this case.

Nonetheless I am sharing some of my thoughts with you once more.
I am in high spirits today and I'm glad to see an 'independent thinker' commenting occasionally. Some of you are willing to turn away from the mere hunt for the ultimate proof, you are trying to look beyond the "hows" and that is how it should be. In order to understand Michael's motivation for having done this, you don't need teachings based on numerology or meticulous detail, nor do you need to conjecture and believe that clues are hidden everywhere, it's unnecessary. You are well equipped to figure it out for yourself, even if you haven't read a single page on any forum, you also don't need any guide, who is going round in circles anyway.
The layout is simple and self-explanatory. I recognize that an added game/fun/education element (present especially in this forum) might be appealing to the younger ones of you or it might function as a self-protection mechanism to prevent pain, when you begin to see the bigger picture - Michael's truth.
You might like to ask yourself, who added this element and why. If you, as potential independent thinker, want to gain grounds again on this territory, you should "...question EVERYTHING...". Me quoting the member's favourite indoctrinator, who'd have thunk.


The main characters here, are so consumed with their own ego and with what they want to achieve; their propaganda speaks volumes, and they think this is going unnoticed. They are missing out on the most important matter(s), while putting all their time and effort into their own game, sorry aim.
Some bubbles are in danger of bursting....

If you are not quite sure, what I am talking about, I recommend you to read my other posts, won't take long, there aren't that many ;) before they'll get deleted.
You'll understand then, I hope.
For the ones, who think that post-count equals rookie, I assure you, that ain't correct. I've been on that journey from day one, literally. Saw and learned a lot !

There is just one other little thing that I want to mention.
The forum-innate informers like to disguise their intention with the noble cloak of initiating awareness and awakening in people using Michael's 'death' for it. Their conduct seems impeccable, or should I say slick, their words are well chosen and the things they say seem plausible, but beware, their methods are shady. Why aren't they putting ALL their cards on the table, for everyone to see ? For the sake of creating mystery, gathering followers maybe ? Adulation makes you feel good, right ?
Oh, of course, they can't reveal themselves, they must be Michael Jackson so.
You wish !





Best
JMseesMJ





P.S.: Souza, I suggest you rename your forum soon, your current title is misleading, it still has the name Michael Jackson in it. Presumptuous.
Here are some suggestions:  "Education Hoax, WE think for Yourselves" or "Our Masterclass in Life, The Universe and Everything", maybe "Numerology - The Answer You Were Looking For" or how about "Free Brainwash, Unnoticed Manipulation Guaranteed", you know, something along those lines.
FYI, I don't need to back up anything, my words are true and you know it.   
You might like to tell the new members, what I am referring to. Just some keywords: the beginnings of TIAI, mysterious informer "Bob" and the TMZ connection, the fall out between you and Mo, alleged forum 'hacks' and the list goes on... 

Some keywords are touched upon in TIAI update # 6.5 from pg. 6 onward http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=16148.125

The beginnings were good Souza, but then you took the wrong turn, chose the wrong team; dead end, time will tell.
If through your methods people really discover themselves and who they are, then I am just speechless and think it is a sad reflection of our society. It's in a state worse than I thought.

Excuse me but why don't you go and keep on playing with that naughty doggy? It looks like that odd couple washed your brain so well or perhaps you are one of them. After two years, why need to waste your "precious" time with us and tell that TS is a fake and Souza is playing with us? It is your decision to close your eyes to see the truth but you can not come to our home where we are a family here and try to ruin it for us. You can not achieve your goal here. It's too late for that! And I can easily say that you will be so so ashamed one day for the things you wrote on this forum. But that will be too late for you! 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:55:54 PM by PureLove »

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 06:58:31 PM
Oh no, please, no FIGHTI_G you guys, please bow/ bow/ bow/

Offline PureLove

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:05:09 PM
Oh no, please, no FIGHTI_G you guys, please bow/ bow/ bow/

Who is fighting gina?  suspicious//

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:07:51 PM
OK I said nothing, no fighting, not now, not in the future please.
The truth will prevail eventually. And there's not much time left.

Offline PureLove

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:18:07 PM
OK I said nothing, no fighting, not now, not in the future please.
The truth will prevail eventually. And there's not much time left.

There's no need to panic and make wrong ASSumptions. That's all I can say.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 08:28:52 PM by PureLove »

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:29:12 PM
@reveron1958: Don't misunderstand me please. I do not judge anyone. You're free to choose what you like to be: believer, agnostic, atheist, catholic or whatever.


There is no CHOICE made by myself, it is just how it is! It's like I don't 'choose' to like or dislike the taste of liver - it is not a conscious choice I make, it is just how it is with me. (That I hate liver.) But you never know, my tastes might change and I may end up loving liver and having a faith in God. What will be will be.

L.O.V.E

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:32:17 PM
OK - I'm spooked!  suspicious//

So I'm questioning numerology and saying I'm an agnostic and I go to my emails and this has appeared!   /overreacting/

« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 07:39:14 PM by reveron1958 »

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:35:25 PM
ROFL reveron, the numerology got you hahhahahhahahhahhhh!!!!

Why? Because God works in mysterious ways LOOOOOOOOOOL!
You asked for it /cook/...

PS: you are not kidding are you suspicious// suspicious// suspicious//?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 07:37:42 PM by GINAFELICIA »

Offline Magic_Love_4U

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:37:31 PM
I loved this well written enlightening words!
But be careful so you don't get tossed outta here, some people are not welcomed in here for some reason.  ???/

Quote
As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!
Love is the Solution to Everything.

Offline reveron1958

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 11, 2011, 07:50:29 PM
I loved this well written enlightening words!
But be careful so you don't get tossed outta here, some people are not welcomed in here for some reason.  ???/

Quote
As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!

Great post!  ;D

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 02:54:19 AM

@Gina: you intrigue me, you are a very interesting person ;) I think you are MORE clever than you're letting people know! You have more self-confidence than you're showing. I think your questions are not always expressing what you don't know/understand, but rather what you DO know/understand ;) Continue to ask questions and say what you think, in your own special way! ;) I think you have a different way of proving to yourself / others that Michael is alive and that is : by trying to prove the opposite! loll it's rather strange, but I think I now can get you! tell me if I'm wrong in believing this about you!

Simpatik please never say about me again I'm clever. Sometimes I am so stupid that I can not believe myself. But it's OK because this way I don't have to live up to the "clever" standard all the time and it feels so good sometimes, to be plain stupid, you know, it's relaxing.
But you are right about a few things above, you took me by surprise, really, you understand :shock:
hahahaaa  :lol: and you are very funny too!!
Only clever people can be funny!!! ;)
I'm telling you, you're a clever girl, even for the fact that you realize it when you act stupid.
Stupid people can't see that! They think they're clever all the time! lmao  :lol: In fact that is what is stupid: to think you're always right or that you always know better than others .
We're all human, we all make mistakes, we all have defaults and we all need to learn and learn till the end of our lives...the learning process never stops!

I'm glad you confirmed me that I could "read" you well ! ;)

Offline bec

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 03:14:54 AM
Oh, of course, they can't reveal themselves, they must be Michael Jackson so.
You wish !





Best
JMseesMJ

Excuse me but why don't you go and keep on playing with that naughty doggy? It looks like that odd couple washed your brain so well or perhaps you are one of them. After two years, why need to waste your "precious" time with us and tell that TS is a fake and Souza is playing with us? It is your decision to close your eyes to see the truth but you can not come to our home where we are a family here and try to ruin it for us. You can not achieve your goal here. It's too late for that! And I can easily say that you will be so so ashamed one day for the things you wrote on this forum. But that will be too late for you! 

Indeed. Lol. I only quote it to reference it later. Some will want crow recipes in the end. Suggestion: salt and ketchup.
Are you entertained?

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 03:31:48 AM
@reveron1958: Don't misunderstand me please. I do not judge anyone. You're free to choose what you like to be: believer, agnostic, atheist, catholic or whatever.
There is no CHOICE made by myself, it is just how it is! It's like I don't 'choose' to like or dislike the taste of liver - it is not a conscious choice I make, it is just how it is with me. (That I hate liver.) But you never know, my tastes might change and I may end up loving liver and having a faith in God. What will be will be.
L.O.V.E
I think these kind of "choices" are not always made in a conscientious manner. The subconscious, our inner self, also play a major role there ;)
Anyway, I like your positive tone, and for some reason or another I think that deep down in your heart, you feel the divine presence, even if up there in your mind you still do not allow that feeling to arrive!

OK - I'm spooked!  suspicious//
So I'm questioning numerology and saying I'm an agnostic and I go to my emails and this has appeared!   /overreacting/

[....]
[....]
hahahahaaaa  :lol: I love Numerology!!!
Thanks for sharing that with us! and as GINA said, I think "you asked for it!" and maybe it's a sign for you that it's time you started to truly believe in God and divine numbers!
Now, let me tell you something "freaky" that happened to me, too, after I began understanding some more about Numerology!!
So I started noticing a lot of things in my life that were more or less connected to CERTAIN numbers!! Namely: number 3 & number 8, occasionally number 9 too!! I'm talking about things that I can't  control!! Like: my birthday [04.08.1980 - adding up to number 30!] and birthdays of my closest people [family, friends]; then important dates in my life!! then dates [not necessarily related to me] when good things happen at work or anywhere else!!
Then the numbers that are in my home-addresses [old and current - lot's of numbers 3], phone numbers [old and current- no. 3 & 9 everywhere], then I work in an office where the key no is 8 and to get there I need of course key no. 7 !! I mean aren't these "coincidences" supposed to make me FREAK out!? loll  :lol: !! Especially because basically almost everything around me evolves with 3 and 8 and... 9 !!
At the beginning I told myself: "I'm crazy now with all this hoax and everything, can't be! it's just wishful thinking!!!" But then I read Jesse {Elvis} letters on Linda's site and he experienced the same things when he started asking himself as to why God made him Elvis? why did He chose him to be that famous? and then learning about Numerology, he realized: everything form birth dates, home-addresses, phones, important events, etc.... everything in his life was based on number 8 !!
Just as later Michael must have discovered this about number 7 in his life!

In time, after studying all the numerology "coincidences"  and parallels both in Elvis & MJ lives, then noticing the importance of numbers in my life too, I understood that it's only GOD who can make this happen!!
In Elvis & MJ hoax, most of the 'coincidences" were intentionally planned by them to correspond to the ACTUAL "coincidences" created by God. I have no doubt about that! otherwise nothing else can be explained!! So when Elvis said: "There's no such things as coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences" - I think he meant exactly this: either because God made it happen [so it's not a coincidence because is God's will!!] OR it was something secretly planned by someone! [again NOT a coincidence, but a man-made PLAN!]

Offline Grace

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 03:40:24 AM
As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!

Thank you.
Who's still trying to find out whether the spin was left or right is missing the choreography for the opening eve.
There are more illusions than have been named and there are more illusionists in this set than have been identified.
Staff are being played big times. We belong to staff btw. Without us the stage would be pretty empty.
So don't underestimate the value of each member here. If we weren't here, Michael would not have any fun.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 03:46:57 AM by Grace »
Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

Offline lilwendy

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 03:46:47 AM
Hey TS just wanted to say thanks for all this amazing information (which honestly I haven't reviewed yet  lolol/ ) but wanted to clarify.... was this thread a redirect or just something you posted on here.  Just want to keep the redirect list at www.lilwendy.wordpress.com up to date!

Thanks love!

 bearhug

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 01:03:29 PM
@reveron1958: Regarding our discussion on numerology and importance of number in this hoax:
When you have time, watch this video.
It explains very well the divinity of number 7 closely related to its exact number of occurrences in the BIBLE

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 04:58:44 PM
@reveron1958: Regarding our discussion on numerology and importance of number in this hoax:
When you have time, watch this video.
It explains very well the divinity of number 7 closely related to its exact number of occurrences in the BIBLE

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
I saw this video before, it is very interesting.

Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
I don't really believe TS is Murray. But I do believe Murray is Michael metaphorically and so therefore...

well, you follow me.

EXACTLY bec! Yes, TS wrote in the previous thread that he is Murray and now Murray says he is The Source but it is written and said metaphorically. I do also believe that Murray represents Michael in this case.

Purelove, I am lost now, you had said that Ts maybe Michael or someone close to him now he is Murray THE SOURCE?? I don't think he is Murray at all.. Maybe I misunderstood..


I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am.
Michael Jackson

Offline SimPattyK

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 07:03:23 PM
[....]
[....]
[....]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Possibilities

Now I’m going to propose 7 different possible scenarios—none of which would mean that 12:21 was not part of the planned numerology and timing, OR that the statements I have previously made about the 911 timing prove that TS is fake.  So if I can come up with 7 possibilities—and my opposers did not even come up with a single possibility, that fits with what I’ve said in the past—then the real problem is not a lack of accuracy in what I have said, the real problem is that they are desperately trying to find something to disprove TS.  Why?  Because it is human nature; many people are too proud to admit that they made a mistake, just like so-called “fans” who would rather have MJ dead than admit that they are wrong (and the hoax investigators are right).

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#1. The 911 Calls Were Staged

No actual phone calls were placed to either the BHPD or LAFD; the calls were staged (much like the ambulance photo).  In this case, the information on the call screen was fabricated.  My description of the 911 call was describing not what literally happened, but rather what the information on the screen was designed to represent (made to look like someone was waiting for 12:21 to make the call).

Considering the above possibility: notice that there was one rather small two-letter word in Update 4c, which carries a rather big meaning.  “So if the caller was waiting for the right time to make the call, 12:21—and then pushed the speed dial button—about 4 seconds into the minute is what we would expect …” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=7124.0}.

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#2. MJ Was Gone to the Airport

For this scenario, I’m going to go on the idea that TS is actually MJ.  But please do not take this and run with it; I am merely showing that if MJ himself could make the same statements about the 911 call, and still not be a fake—then just as much or more could someone other than MJ make these same statements, and yet not be a fake. 

What if MJ had already gone to the airport, before the 911 call was made; he was not there in person, to observe what actually happened.  Someone at the house not in on it was urging that someone call 911, and by 12:20 Alvarez felt that he could not delay any longer without raising too much suspicion; so he called 911 a little early.  In spite of the early call, the transfer to LAFD was not completed until 12:21; and this provided an opportunity for good old TMZ to still report the intended time, 12:21 {http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/}.  Other media copied TMZ’s report, and so 12:21 became the time of the 911 call reported almost everywhere.  Nevertheless, this scenario does not explain the discrepancies in timing given by BHPD and LAFD, etc.

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#3. ORIGINAL W911 INFO (12:21:04)

Alvarez called 911 immediately at 12:21:00; BHPD at answered at 12:21:04.  Within a reasonable time of 14 seconds (not a long delay of 46 seconds): BHPD determined the emergency needed LAFD (not police), and transferred to LAFD by 12:21:18 (as Ruda said).  In this case, both the original call and the transfer occurred during the minute of 12:21; therefore, this ensured that the media would report 12:21—regardless of whether they reported the original call, or the time LAFD got the call (and would be another good reason for starting the call exactly at 12:21, and not 15 or 30 seconds later).





In support of this scenario (see picture above), the call screen says “ORIGINAL W911 [wireless 911] INFO (12:21:04) …”; and then there are three lines of info about the ORIGINAL Alvarez call, but not info about the BHPD or the call transfer (that info was in the previous lines above).

This leads to the question of why the time “12:21:04” is even listed on the call screen.  For what purpose is this information provided to the FS71 paramedics?  If it’s merely the time when BHPD trunk line 009 was released (open for a new 911 call to come into BHPD on that trunk line, as Dona testified): why would FS71 paramedics care a whit about that time, why would it be on their call screen?  Would this information help them know what action to take in an emergency?

Wouldn’t it be far more important for the paramedics to know the time when the emergency call first came in at the BHPD?  What if BHPD had an emergency of their own (and that can happen), and it took them three minutes to transfer the call to LAFD?  Wouldn’t FS71 want to know how long since the emergency started, so that they could assess things like how long the house has been burning (in the case of a fire)?  This is the only time on the call screen with seconds included (12:21:04).  Why is the only time given in seconds also the only time on the screen which doesn’t even need to be there at all (if it’s really nothing other than BHPD trunk line release time)—much less have the exact seconds??  The paramedics really don’t even need to know when the LAFD call center first received the call (much less any BHPD trunk release time); yet even if they did need that info, for some reason, it would be about 12:20:55 (if Norris times are correct)—not 12:21:04!

However, if the timing from BHPD is either intentionally fabricated or some huge mistake—and 12:21:04 is the time when the original call first came in to BHPD—then we have a very good reason why it is listed on the FS71 call screen, and even listed in seconds.  The exact time (including seconds) listed on the call screen helps the firefighters and paramedics to understand just how long the emergency situation has been in progress, which in turn helps them determine how to respond to the emergency.  This would also explain why 12:21:04 is listed on the call screen as “ORIGINAL” call info (not BHPD transfer info)!

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#4. “The Caller” Was Not Alvarez

Alvarez did not actually call “911”, since it was not a real emergency; instead, he used a different number to call someone at the BHPD who was in on it.  This key person at BHPD transferred Alvarez’s call to LAFD at 12:21:04; and I was actually referring to him (not Alvarez) when I said “the caller”.  Do you think it was an accident that I said “the caller”, and not “Alvarez”?  In this scenario, the “911 operator” would refer to an operator taking emergency calls at the LAFD dispatch center (not someone at BHPD).

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#5. The Beverly Hills Hotel

This scenario is essentially the same as #4, except for the following.  Nobody from the BHPD was in on it at the time, and no calls went through them—either on regular lines, or on a cell phone.  This would therefore reduce the chances of any police showing up at the scene who were not in on the hoax; and it would also reduce the chances of the situation being broadcast on police radios—which paparazzi could hear on their police scanners, and show up at Carolwood, making it more difficult for Chris to get the magic picture.  So instead of calling BHPD, Alvarez called someone waiting at the Beverly Hills Hotel; this person then transferred the call on to LAFD at 12:21:04, much like the description above in #4.

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#6. Alvarez Called LAFD Directly

Alvarez called the LAFD dispatch (at 12:21:04), using a direct number not 911.  In this scenario, there was no transfer process either through the BHPD or through someone at the Beverly Hills Hotel.  Like #5, this option also keeps the BHPD out of it, and reduces the people who need to be in on it.  The time from 12:21:04 (call screen data) to 12:21:18 (Ruda) could be a transfer from whoever first answered at LAFD, to a specific person planned in advance who was in on it at LAFD (and same for #4 & #5, above).

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#7. Think For Yourself

Just like everything else in this illusion, no explanation seems to answer all of the questions.  Nevertheless, think for yourself; and with the information that I have provided here, see if you can come up with a scenario that I have not specifically described—there is at least one more possibility (and probably several more).

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Which One of the 7?

Finally, does it really matter which one of these above 7 options is the correct one?  And even if I told you which one, how could I prove it?  Just because I know the answer to something does not mean I say the answer; I normally limit my statements to things that I can back up pretty solidly (except of course the things that I’ve said jokingly). [...]

My mind is still stuck in those 7 scenarios....

Offline PureLove

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 07:22:46 PM
I don't really believe TS is Murray. But I do believe Murray is Michael metaphorically and so therefore...

well, you follow me.

EXACTLY bec! Yes, TS wrote in the previous thread that he is Murray and now Murray says he is The Source but it is written and said metaphorically. I do also believe that Murray represents Michael in this case.

Purelove, I am lost now, you had said that Ts maybe Michael or someone close to him now he is Murray THE SOURCE?? I don't think he is Murray at all.. Maybe I misunderstood..

I made the part you missed in my post bigger. ;)

Offline all4loveandbelieve

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 08:21:12 PM
I don't really believe TS is Murray. But I do believe Murray is Michael metaphorically and so therefore...

well, you follow me.

EXACTLY bec! Yes, TS wrote in the previous thread that he is Murray and now Murray says he is The Source but it is written and said metaphorically. I do also believe that Murray represents Michael in this case.

Purelove, I am lost now, you had said that Ts maybe Michael or someone close to him now he is Murray THE SOURCE?? I don't think he is Murray at all.. Maybe I misunderstood..

I made the part you missed in my post bigger. ;)

Now you are talking baby.. lol thanks for clearing this up.. Too tired my brains are fried. lol


I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am.
Michael Jackson

Offline PureLove

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 12, 2011, 08:30:34 PM
I don't really believe TS is Murray. But I do believe Murray is Michael metaphorically and so therefore...

well, you follow me.

EXACTLY bec! Yes, TS wrote in the previous thread that he is Murray and now Murray says he is The Source but it is written and said metaphorically. I do also believe that Murray represents Michael in this case.

Purelove, I am lost now, you had said that Ts maybe Michael or someone close to him now he is Murray THE SOURCE?? I don't think he is Murray at all.. Maybe I misunderstood..

I made the part you missed in my post bigger. ;)

Now you are talking baby.. lol thanks for clearing this up.. Too tired my brains are fried. lol

No problem. I'm glad it is clear now.  :mrgreen:

Offline Nyuki

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 14, 2011, 03:35:33 PM
Okay, where shall I begin…..! I’m not the kind of believer who feels the need to debunk TS, I only want to clarify something about the mobile network as I am very familiar in that field.

I have looked at the site that TS has given us, it shows how many towers (private and commercial) are registered in Beverly Hills. There is also a note on that site that says: Not all mobile towers must be registered in the FCC database, so the above may not list all the towers in the area.

http://www.city-data.com/towers/lmobile-Beverly-Hills-California.html#ixzz1bjAH4jKU

For sure the cell sites are not listed……………………!

To allow us to make mobile phone calls, networks are built. A network consists of antennas (mobile cell sites), the cell sites are connected to a tower (broadcast tower), which is connected to a central. 
Cell sites have their own specific registration numbers and long-and latitude. Mobile cell sites are placed at buildings and on roofs of buildings. Sometimes they are hidden in fake trees, behind chimneys, small antennas in flagpoles, etc, etc, to not spoil the view.

http://findcellsites.com/sites.shtml

Okay there is no tower at Sunset Boulevard, but I dare to say that on the roof top of the BH-hotel  a mobile cell site is placed or around the BH-hotel,  and probably more than one from different providers.  It can hardly be otherwise when you consider what kind of people stay there. Business people who often depend on their mobile phone to make money. A hotel with a bad connection to the outside world is unthinkable and very bad publicity.

The signal of a wireless call is received by the nearest or strongest transmitting cell site. This has to do with how many calls the software (which is connected to the antennas) can handle. So the first address what shows up on a wireless call is the address of the cell site (and don’t forget a cell site is not a tower).

So the phone call made by Alverez from Carolwood drive was picked up at the Beverly Hills Hotel, nothing more and nothing less. I hope it is helpful for those who see (to many wild) bears on the road who are not there. /overreacting/

EXTRA INFO:
11 Calls (wireline or landline)
Emergency personnel and others often learn about emergencies through 911 calls. The 911 network is a vital part of our nation's emergency response and disaster preparedness system. This network is constantly being upgraded to provide emergency help more quickly and effectively. Dialing 911 quickly connects you to a PSAP dispatcher trained to route your call to local emergency medical, fire and law enforcement agencies. At the PSAP, the dispatcher verifies the caller’s location, determines the nature of the emergency and decides which emergency response teams should be notified.
Most traditional wireline 911 systems automatically report to the PSAP the telephone number and location of calls, a capability called “Enhanced 911” or “E911.” With this information, PSAP staff is able to call back if the 911 call is disconnected, and also know where to send emergency services personnel. E911 service from wireline phones is available in most parts of the country.

Wireless 911 Calls
The mobility of wireless telephone service makes determining a wireless 911 caller’s location more complicated than determining a traditional wireline 911 caller’s location, where numbers are associated with a fixed address. In order to enhance the ability of emergency personnel to respond efficiently and effectively to callers placing wireless 911 calls, the FCC has taken a number of steps to ensure that wireless service providers make location information automatically available to PSAPs.
The FCC’s basic 911 rules require wireless service providers to transmit all 911 calls to a PSAP, regardless of whether the caller subscribes to the provider’s service or not.

Phase I Enhanced 911 (E911) rules require wireless service providers to provide the PSAP with the telephone number of the originator of a wireless 911 call and the location of the cell site or base station transmitting the call.

Phase II E911 rules require wireless service providers to provide more precise location information to PSAPs; specifically, the latitude and longitude of the caller. This information must be accurate to within 50 to 300 meters depending upon the type of location technology used.
The FCC recently required wireless carriers to provide more precise location information to PSAPs. As a result, wireless carriers will be required to comply with the FCC’s location accuracy rules at either a county-based or PSAP-based geographic level. The new standards apply to outdoor measurements only, as indoor use poses unique obstacles.

For more information about wireless 911 service, see the FCC consumer guide.
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/emergency-communications

Nyuki :D







Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 14, 2011, 03:52:38 PM
Nyuki I am not an expert in cells technology but I tend to believe you are right about why it seemed that the  call was made from the hotel.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 14, 2011, 04:00:33 PM
So the phone call made by Alverez from Carolwood drive was picked up at the Beverly Hills Hotel, nothing more and nothing less. I hope it is helpful for those who see (to many wild) bears on the road who are not there. /overreacting/


Ooooopssss I made a little mistake........I mean "was picked up by the cell site at the BH-Hotel
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 04:02:41 PM by Nyuki »

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 14, 2011, 06:58:19 PM
[...]
[...]
[...]
TS, through his teachings (which is what I think of his posts as and yes, I look forward to every single word he writes...because this world is greatly lacking in REAL teachers)...has helped us peel the cobwebs from our eyes and shown us just how conditioned we really are.  He didn't just tell us and he didn't just show us....he HELPED us see it for ourselves, he guided us to see it for ourselves.  If you believe that Mike is speaking to us through TS (and I cannot understand how people can doubt that!)....then it is MIKE'S lessons we are learning and his guidance we are CHOOSING to accept. 

I stated awhile back that, through this adventure, Mike has--in the most intimate of ways---shared himself with us.  He has invited us into his mind....the most intimate, sacred, and most powerful part of himself....in order to 'teach' US how to awaken ours. YOU can choose to read his every word and try to learn something from it....or if that doesn't interest you, then YOU can choose to ignore it.  But to ignore, undermine, or worse yet bash, TS...just might end up being your real 'wake-up call' come BAMsday....when you realize you're not ready cause you've missed half the lessons.
[...]
[...]
[...]


AMEN sisters!!!!

Michael has Bared his soul to those of us willing to see the TRUTH. We can only help guide you to the right path, but it is up to you, to "walk" that path. You need to look at the "BIG PICTURE" in order to find the answers you are looking for. This is all about "perception". When you take a look back, and look at EVERYTHING, as being an "ILLUSION", except Michael's message of "LOVE", then you will know that you are on the right path, and the answers will all fall into place.
This is all about killing your EGO, so that your "True Self", which is LOVE, can LIVE.

I LOVE YOU ALL!!!...I really truly do!
Keep The Faith!
 bearhug

Michael...I "feel" you with me every step...."Thank You" for your guidance.  ONE Heart, ONE Mind...ONE LOVE, We are ONE!
 bearhug


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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 14, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
I think the 911 call was totally staged just like these were staged/prerecorded: ambulance photo, the autopsy photo, the dead MJ on the hospital gurney photo.

All staged to fit in perfectly with Michael's planning, numerology, timing. It meant MJ had total control of it without the risk of outside interference.

The intricate details of the "how" we may never find out, as TS stated:

  "Also, a magician does not give away all of his secrets.  Again, I am not saying that TS is MJ; I’m just saying that if the MaJician himself could have some    secrets about how it was done, and yet not be fake, then just as much or more someone who is not MJ."







I agree with this, the photo of the ambulance was made another day, there are plenty of things that are fake, why the call is going to be  true?, was staged like everything else in the appropriate time

Offline mjj4ever777

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 16, 2011, 01:49:38 AM
I loved this well written enlightening words!
But be careful so you don't get tossed outta here, some people are not welcomed in here for some reason.  ???/

Quote
As long as you are looking for someone else, (TS, Front/back, etc), to give you the answers, you are NOT "thinking for yourself"!

Think about this for one minute family... As soon as TS or Front post, everyone can't wait to see what they have to say,so you "flock" to their posts, as fast as you can! This thread has already had 1000 views in the last 24hrs, yet the information that TS is giving you is stuff that has no bearing on the BIG PICTURE!! Have you learned anything "new", or is this just the same information in a different Package??? TS is showing you how easy it is for you to be controlled and that you are still letting FEAR and EGO control you!! You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of "control" by others.

If you are still trying to figure out "HOW" Michael pulled off this hoax, instead of "WHY" Michael did this, then you are just running in circles and you will NEVER break free!! You will not be thinking for yourself!

Of all of the Millions and Millions, if not Billions of Michael Jackson "Fans" in this world...who really, truly understands Michael's "message"?

If you are still concentrating on trying to "solve" the Hoax, then you are not understanding what this is truly about. If you need Michael Jackson to "physically" return to you in order for you to feel complete, or happy, then you are not understanding "WHY" Michael has done this!! If you are not happy in your life, it is up to you and ONLY you, to change that...Michael can't do this for you...that is only an "Illusion" that you yourself has created in your mind!! Think about it...If you still need to see Michael in the flesh in order to  "validate" that he is truly alive, then you aren't really a "Believer".If you think that somehow Michael reappearing is going to "Magically" change everything in your life for the better, you are deceiving yourself, because Michael CAN"T change your life!!! You are the master of your own being...You and ONLY you, and until you can see this and break free and take back control of your life, you are NOT making a change and THINKING for yourself!!

I truly LOVE you guys, and LOVE is the only thing I KNOW is real! Michael has taught me that LOVE is what is going to change the world, and it starts with US Learning to LOVE ourselves again and when you are living your life with Love, you are making a true difference!!

Please, I posted a video on this thread called Michael's message, and Not One person has made a comment on it, because they are trying to figure out what  TS's long, long message is about, when in fact, there is nothing NEW in those messages...You are banging your head against a wall!! What is it that you hope to learn from TS's messages??? Everything has already been PLanned and executed, you aren't going to find anything "Valuable" in these messages...honestly..

Michael's message is bring LOVE back into our lives and believing that we have the "MIND" power to change the world, not that he wants you to figure out HOW he executed this world wide hoax!!!

Mark my words family... the end result is that, "It's all for LOVE"...Nothing else matters!!
Tomorrow is 11/11/11 and I have a "feeling" that more of you will start to understand...because it has already been "written".

I will be here to help any of you in any way I can...I will never give up on trying to help you understand that LOVE is soooooo important, and I KNOW that this is what Michael is trying to get us all to realize.
If you want to help Michael and show him how much he means to you look to LOVE, but instead of doing this for Michael...do it for yourself and your family...do it for the betterment of Humanity, because until we all find the "Humanity" inside of us, and start living our lives with LOVE,  we are just "Human beings" being controlled by "OTHERS" and controlled by FEAR!!

It is your turn to SHINE!!!!!! Break free, "Make a change", "LIVE LOVE", BE LOVE...We are ONE!

I LOVE YOU ALL, and I won't give up on you, so please, don't give up on yourself..your "soul" is begging you to "set it free" with LOVE!!!!!!

Thank you magic! I am not afraid of being kicked off the site, because I have absolute LOVE and Respect for Souza, Ts, Front,Back, Michael, and every single person on this forum. I appreciate all of the hard work that has been done by the "staff" and the members of this site. If it wasn't for people like them, I wouldn't have discovered "My" TRUTH. This site and all of the "clues" is the reason, "why" I can write a post like the one you have referenced above. I just seemed to take a different "Path" then most here, but I am very aware that each individual has to find their own Path, but I can try to help give them a little "guidance", as long as it is done with LOVE.
Michael led me down the path of LOVE, because I was already on that Path my whole life, so it was the one thing that "resonated" with me, above anything else in this hoax, and because of that path,  I am now happier then I have ever been in my life! I started on the Path of LOVE, and I will never waiver from that path, because I have found the answers I was searching for. I still feel it is important to read everything though, but I use my "perception" to weed out the "nonsense" and at the same time, I am able to find "validation"  of what "I" already  know as "My" truth",in some of the posts. So it is a win win situation for me. But my heart does truly ache for some members here, that are struggling so much...sigh...I honestly Love every member of this beautiful family here, and I truly hope that each and every one of you knows how much I LOVE You!
Blessings on your night Family, see you all tomorrow!
 bearhug

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 16, 2011, 04:40:59 AM
Why is 1332 divided into 4 and not 3 or 5??

i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999
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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 16, 2011, 08:30:52 AM
Why is 1332 divided into 4 and not 3 or 5??

i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999

Because Michael wrote 4 on that DVD cover, and not 3 or 5.

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 16, 2011, 09:26:39 AM
Thanks for explanation :)
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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 16, 2011, 09:40:31 AM
/cook/

 /bravo/

Thank you for posting this Paula. It's a good reminder. :lol:

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 21, 2011, 09:45:58 PM
Info from Kittcat youtube channel about 911 call:

Let's look at the cell phone that made the 911 call. Yesterday I was reading some info at MJDHI. They had a photo of the call screen inside the firetruck that was large and clear enough to see the address of the Beverly Hills Hotel as associated with the phone making the call, and the phone number that made the call, so I called it. (if you've been reading this channel for a while, you knew I would). Keep in mind the monitor in question was in the firetruck that was left unattended on the street in front of MJs house, window down, so paps got a clear shot. Against HIPAA regulations at the least according to mmlevyjones, MD. I got this recording - "Welcome to Verizon Wireless...the number you have dialed has been changed, disconnected or is no longer in

service". Wait a minute -- wouldn't "disconnected" imply land line, or is that just part of any "no longer in svc" message? Luckily for me I have a friend who once worked for the phone company. She is the same one who sent the info on Carolwood. So I asked her about it. Here is our conversation:

Me: How long would you say it would take to get from the BH Hotel to the Carolwood house? I'd rather have your estimate than MapQuest's. (She sent a map showing BH Hotel, Fire Station 71, Carolwood and UCLA all in a line, each just minutes from the others—UCLA is at one end, the Hotel at the other

Her: At that time of the day - less than 3 minutes. Speed limit is 35 but they race through those turns on Sunset - it's not a straight road there - it bends around. I don't remember exactly - but there are I think 2 traffic lights between the hotel & Carolwood, no light at Carolwood. I can't believe you called the number - oh wait, yes I can. So the message says it's a dead number, not associated with anyone??? Wonder how long they'll keep that # dead? Good thing you never got a hold of MJ's cell # - - -

Me: I'd sent the following from MJDHI - "We've all been told that there is a Cell Phone Tower at 9641 Sunset blvd which is the common explanation as to why the 911 screen cap has that address.
According to this site there is no Cell Phone Tower at 9641 Sunset Blvd.
http://www.cellreception.com/t­owers/towers.php?city=los%20an­geles&state_abr=ca

The location of the phone will be tracked using triangulation - by taking 2 or more readings, it is possible to calculate where the signal is coming from by working out the triangle that fits the signal strengths. The 3rd point is the location of the phone. (Meaning they don't pinpoint towers, they pinpoint the most likely physical location of the cell phone by determining the signal strengths it sends out in multiple directions) However, when the person who has the phone has made an emergency call, this GPS transmission will always be sent. This is designed to ensure that the police can always track a cell phone location, in order to get help to people who need it."

Her: There's a high probability that there is a tower or an antenna on top of the hotel: see this website - it could be unregistered so it wouldn't show up on the website you

ttached. http://www.antennasearch.com/s­itestart.asp
More than likely they have their own tower or antenna. It's a five-star hotel which hosts meeting rooms that have to be equipped for business travelers and high-end business locals who all carry blackberries. The call more than likely originated from the hotel. Would explain why Murray never used his cell from the house to call 911 - just those 3 non-emergency calls - and never used the land line in the house. There is no way that house did not have a working land-line - and absolutely no way he didn't know the address. (You can see in some photos, the black mailbox has 100 in brass numbers on it) With cell phones it's not an exact science with location, it's an approximate location but with a land line there is a reference point - exact to the line used in the house.

Me: I'll call again and get the exact wording, see if it tells you anything--"Welcome to Verizon Wireless...the number you have dialed has been changed, disconnected or is no longer in service" Hold on horsie--wouldn't disconnected imply land line, or is that just part of any "no longer in svc" message?

Her: I didn't work on the cell-side but cell numbers change hands fast - they don't languish out there for 14 months unless the person still owns the acct. but it's inactive. That is the standard line used for land-lines, not cell lines. Disconnected doesn't make any sense for a cell - they wouldn't retire the number - it would just go to a new customer if that account is closed. So apparently Alvarez still owns the account and the number, just doesn't use it.
You know - anyone can record that as their incoming message and sound like the phone company's standard message service - unfortunately it's the wrong standard telecom message to use for a changed cell phone. Duh...

Her: To answer your question about how long it takes to trace a call - you watch too many movies from the 80's. Think Caller ID - instant name & address on a land line. If 911 is dialed on a land line - the exact address comes up - cell is a bit different - depending on where trunk is but it's basically the same time frame.
GPS on new cell phones can also pinpoint exact location.

Well then, the exact location is the Beverly Hills Hotel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kittycat10100



http://www.igroops.com/members/httpfairycom/comm/READ/00000778/Members-comments-on-From-911.html#00000778

Offline TS_comments

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 22, 2011, 01:14:22 AM
Hey TS just wanted to say thanks for all this amazing information (which honestly I haven't reviewed yet  lolol/ ) but wanted to clarify.... was this thread a redirect or just something you posted on here.  Just want to keep the redirect list at www.lilwendy.wordpress.com up to date!

Thanks love!

 bearhug

Yes, the redirect for 11-9 (911 backwards) was to this thread.  Then level 7 on 11-11-11.

Thanks so much for keeping the TIAI redirect log!

 respect/    bearhug

Offline Nyuki

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 24, 2011, 03:51:13 AM
Info from Kittcat youtube channel about 911 call:

GPS on new cell phones can also pinpoint exact location.Well then, the exact location is the Beverly Hills Hotel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kittycat10100



http://www.igroops.com/members/httpfairycom/comm/READ/00000778/Members-comments-on-From-911.html#00000778

Does Kitcat know if Alvarez had a (new) cell phone which was supported by GPS? .......Apperently not. So, I rather stick to my own truth in my post # 145 in this thread.  geek/

Offline applehead250609

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 24, 2011, 05:20:32 AM
Quote
lilwendy
Reply #137 on: November 12, 2011, 04:46:47 PM »
Hey TS just wanted to say thanks for all this amazing information (which honestly I haven't reviewed yet  lolol/ ) but wanted to clarify.... was this thread a redirect or just something you posted on here.  Just want to keep the redirect list at www.lilwendy.wordpress.com up to date!

Thanks love!

Hy lilwendy  :) !!!!
If you have time can you please explain me about Thisisalsoit on Twitter – V for Vendetta with Celebs ????



http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/thisisalsoit-on-twitter-v-for-vendetta-with-celebs/


There are some things that I don't understand,and for things to be crazier something totally unexpected happened this days.Betewn those celebs you wrote is Natalie Wood  :? ,and she was/is the wife of Robert Wagner no???
Why the police has re-opened this case now, after 30 years  afraid/ ????? What is the point,I don't understand honestly  :? .
Was there a conspiracy or what??? And what Robert Wagner has to do with Michael ,David Guest , O.J. Simpson and Liz Taylor :????






Thank you for your time  :)!!!!


Online ~Souza~

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 24, 2011, 05:23:26 AM
The name of this thread is "911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??", please stay on topic.

Offline applehead250609

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 24, 2011, 05:36:19 AM
The name of this thread is "911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??", please stay on topic.

Hy Souza!!!
I apologise ,I know is not the right place,but I didn't knew where to post it,and since I saw lilwedy and TS posts ,I did it here .Can you please help me or give me some advice,where to put this????

P.S. My husband is still slepping ,after job,but when he wake's up I will ask about that problem.Thank you

Online ~Souza~

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Re: 911 CALL NUMEROLOGY—12:20, OR 12:21??

  • on: November 24, 2011, 05:46:31 AM
Twitter, V for Vedetta, conspiracy theories? Anywhere but here.