Debunked Clues

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Offline son

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Debunked Clues

  • on: April 17, 2011, 11:32:09 PM
I'm not sure if this has been done already but it might be a good idea to post a list of the clues that have been  
(unanimously) debunked. I don't have much to contribute here but just an idea.
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Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 18, 2011, 01:19:17 AM
Welcome and I'm not really sure if there is a topic about debunked clues...

But I can add some information that I have been tirelessly working on......

That day and the other day..

Ben is definitely telling the truth about that.

The pics I have saved to my computer, are taken from two different videos...

1.  From a tour bus passenger.
2.  The original video released by Ben Evenstad of MJ being rushed to UCLA by ambulance..

There are many inconsistencies with the story, and with what really happened.

Most obvious is the shadows of the trees.

Second, the lies about who took that last photo, because the pictures tell a different story.  

It has been proved that the road is really narrow, and not wide enough for all those  cars.
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Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 18, 2011, 01:22:24 AM
And more

These are the links they have been taken from....

http://www.wat.tv/video/michael-jackson ... exyf_.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqp ... re=related
[youtube:16ssm7qs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44&feature=related[/youtube:16ssm7qs]
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Offline GINAFELICIA

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 18, 2011, 01:24:19 AM
Interesting idea, debunking clues....I hope you people won't prove now that Michael is dead, debunking all the clues.
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Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 18, 2011, 01:36:46 AM
[youtube:1we2ynvm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faG0YjpRbNs&NR=1[/youtube:1we2ynvm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faG0YjpRbNs&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDZyiUaQ ... re=related
[youtube:1we2ynvm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDZyiUaQbOs&feature=related[/youtube:1we2ynvm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCV ... re=related
[youtube:1we2ynvm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4eJtRCVaaM&feature=related[/youtube:1we2ynvm]
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Offline son

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 18, 2011, 08:28:30 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Interesting idea, debunking clues....I hope you people won't prove now that Michael is dead, debunking all the clues.

I don't think you can debunk all the clues. Just some of the minor ones. Also one of the many critiques Pearljr gets is that she refers to clues that have already been debunked. If this is the case we should list them instead of presuming everyone knows. Personally I think we have enough evidence to be comfortable in what we believe, this is really just a trimming of the edges.

One clue I remember being debunked at the old MJHD website was the 2006 this is it picture. Ifthe website supposedly would routinely change a Michael Jackson related article's picture it would in turn change all Michael Jackson related articles' pictures into the same one regardless of the year it was posted. I don't think this clue is worth that much anyways.
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Offline maninthemoon

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 20, 2011, 03:55:27 PM
I think it's a good idea. If we debunk some minor clues, - and after some time, someone pulls it off we can give him/her a link to this thread. So s/he'll know whether it's true or not..
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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 20, 2011, 05:24:32 PM
We can say that by popular decision that Conrad Muarry IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR :lol:  :lol: If he is, God help us.
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Offline son

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 21, 2011, 09:03:03 AM
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
We can say that by popular decision that Conrad Muarry IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR :lol:  :lol: If he is, God help us.
A debunked clue in this situation is that Murray is a real person (if nothing else). When hoax theories were being compiled in the beginning it was theorized that Dr. Murray was MJ in disguise, I think we can say that clue is debunked.
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MJhasSpoken

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 21, 2011, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: "son"
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
We can say that by popular decision that Conrad Muarry IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR :lol:  :lol: If he is, God help us.
A debunked clue in this situation is that Murray is a real person (if nothing else). When hoax theories were being compiled in the beginning it was theorized that Dr. Murray was MJ in disguise, I think we can say that clue is debunked.

Murray can still be a real doctor...most likely the medical attention he gave on the plane was a stunt...but who's to say he is not a real doctor...I know he did all the wrong things when it came to cpr, but any person would know how to do cpr and if he doesn't means he really killed MJ which we know is not true...I think he is a doctor.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 01:33:38 AM
this is tough, we are not used to debunk clues, in contrary, we see clues every where.  :lol:

 Let's see.......... there was an opinion one or two of members to my question, don't remember who, that Katherine went  shopping  in June 29,2009 "because she probably needed sleeping bags.....for kids to sleep in her house and that could be her way of grieving".
Another time I said on the thread BAM scene is a direct clue from Michael, one of the members, again I don't remember who was it, said "it is not a clue but continuance of the song that ends the TII"  or something like that.
These are not my debunks cause I do think these are very powerful clues. But this is a good chance to see if these debunks are wroking.
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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 01:39:49 AM
I have debunked a clue a few days ago. The 911 call of which we thought came from the Beverly Hills hotel, really did come from the house. I have no idea why the screen in the firetruck gave that address, but the coordinates that are shown are from within the house, at the backside. Google Maps gives Monovale Drive as the address, which is right next to it, but one would assume that the tracking system the emergency dispatchers work with would be more accurate than Google Maps. Turns out it isn't. Still strange IMO, but according to the coordinates the call really was made from 100 N. Carolwood Drive.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 02:52:11 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
I have debunked a clue a few days ago. The 911 call of which we thought came from the Beverly Hills hotel, really did come from the house. I have no idea why the screen in the firetruck gave that address, but the coordinates that are shown are from within the house, at the backside. Google Maps gives Monovale Drive as the address, which is right next to it, but one would assume that the tracking system the emergency dispatchers work with would be more accurate than Google Maps. Turns out it isn't. Still strange IMO, but according to the coordinates the call really was made from 100 N. Carolwood Drive.

Does this also mean that 911 call in not fake, prerecorded? Also what coordinates shown on the screen indicates backside of the house?

[youtube:1ee245tk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4j--IZB5gk[/youtube:1ee245tk]
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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 03:02:05 AM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
I have debunked a clue a few days ago. The 911 call of which we thought came from the Beverly Hills hotel, really did come from the house. I have no idea why the screen in the firetruck gave that address, but the coordinates that are shown are from within the house, at the backside. Google Maps gives Monovale Drive as the address, which is right next to it, but one would assume that the tracking system the emergency dispatchers work with would be more accurate than Google Maps. Turns out it isn't. Still strange IMO, but according to the coordinates the call really was made from 100 N. Carolwood Drive.

Does this also mean that 911 call in not fake, prerecorded? Also what coordinates shown on the screen indicates backside of the house?

[youtube:2iuevwtc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4j--IZB5gk[/youtube:2iuevwtc]

It doesn't mean it's real, just that the coordinates show that it came from the house, not the hotel as the address suggests. But as you can see on the screen below, the address that corresponds with the coordinates is not the BH hotel, so I don't understand how that could end up on the screen.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 03:07:23 AM
@Souza, you mean the map w/ house coordinate also was on the amb. screen? Do we have that screen?
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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 03:14:26 AM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
@Souza, you mean the map w/ house coordinate also was on the amb. screen? Do we have that screen?

Uhhh, yeah. On the video you posted you can see it on the still. It's also on the website.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 03:40:32 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
@Souza, you mean the map w/ house coordinate also was on the amb. screen? Do we have that screen?

Uhhh, yeah. On the video you posted you can see it on the still. It's also on the website.


I got what you mean. But I think the coordinates on the screen could appear in 2 cases: 1. because amb. got there and computer automatically cought the coordinate where ambulance arrived or 2. because ambulance first googled the address based on the what the caller gave them, to get the destination. So, the screen does not have to necessarily and would not show the  address where the phone call was made from. It shows the address where amb. was going to or got, same as it actually reads on the screen 100 N. Carolwood dr.
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 04:04:38 AM
what I found is interesting too. 911 call script on the news shows wrong zip code - 90007, the correct zip code is 90077; then dispatcher asks for phone #, caller does not give it or maybe that part was cut before tranlation on TV. But that is weird, they have caller ID and number supposed to appear, unless the phone # was blocked on purpose. I know this was also discussed.
back to your version, therefore it is possible paramedics where googling the address of the incident and that reflects on the screen as a  LAT 34081......

[youtube:1z62h0df]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQQq2ne9mYI[/youtube:1z62h0df]
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Offline son

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 06:18:27 PM
Okay so far we can say...

Challenged, but not debunked:

* Bam scene at the end of this is it, actually the end of a song.
* "2006" This Is It picture actually from 2009.
* Conrad Murray is a real doctor
* (According to my Psych teacher) Backwards this is it is only a coincidence (and subjective).

Debunked:

* Conrad Murray is a real person
* The 911 call actually came from the house
* Ben was telling the truth
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: "son"
Okay so far we can say...

Challenged, but not debunked:

* Bam scene at the end of this is it, actually the end of a song.
* "2006" This Is It picture actually from 2009.
* Conrad Murray is a real doctor
* (According to my Psych teacher) Backwards this is it is only a coincidence (and subjective).

Debunked:

* Conrad Murray is a real person
* The 911 call actually came from the house
* Ben was telling the truth
[/u]

Which Ben story is the truth, wich part of the story, he has 2 different stories.
I am not sure 911 call can be considered 100% debunked yet as I explained above; coordinates caught from satellite could appear on the screen after amb got the destination or when paramedics insert the actual address in the computer, or googled the address to find it,  regardless of  "query  caller original......" msg on display. Besides, I remember we had video from youtube the same display as I attached above but also showing Beverly Hills hotel address and phone number the call was made. I'll try to find it.
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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 08:08:27 PM
Here it is, originally we were discussing 9641 Sunset Blvd (it is on display above), Los Angeles, CA 90024, Beverly Hills Hotel was 2-3 blocks away from 100 N. Carolwood dr. when I was there last Sunday, I passed by it. Absolutely possible.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9987&p=168559&hilit=ambulance+display#p168559
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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 22, 2011, 10:37:49 PM
Murray might have gone to medical school, but I still cannot believe he is an accredited certified doctor in good standing.  He had/has a practice in some run down office space working on some poor people who probably couldn’t do any better, likely because no one else would have him.  I will give him his props, I have noticed since this all started that Murray has started dressing better and lost some weight.  Seems he’s got more money now and he’s worked on upping his game.  Seems his “celebrity" is showing.
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"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

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   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Offline son

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 23, 2011, 03:15:15 PM
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
Murray might have gone to medical school, but I still cannot believe he is an accredited certified doctor in good standing.

Supposedly he didn't do too well in medical school, but I think he is a real Doctor.
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Offline Kristina4LOVE

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 23, 2011, 08:53:15 PM
This 911 call is so confusing to me. I don't know how things work in US, but here in Dubai when i called 999 (Dubai version of 911) the guy who talked to me never asked what my phone number was or what my address is. I just explained why i needed ambulance to come to my house and that's it! Oh no he did ask me if my villa number was ... and i said yes it is. The call was made from my cell phone not a land line. Plus my cell phone is registered on my mom's company address which is miles away from my house, so that makes me think that they got my location from satellite or something. I think that's the right way things should work with 911, because in emergency situation you are not always able to talk and think clearly, tell them your phone number, your location etc. I just think it's a time waist in this kind of situation  :? I think that 911 call was totally fake, based on my own experience. But again i don't know how things work in US.

L.O.V.E to all! :D
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Offline hesouttamylife

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 23, 2011, 09:06:01 PM
In the US, if the call is made on a landline, the address comes up in the database.  However if it’s made from a cellular phone that has not been registered with emergency services, they do ask.  They can tell the proximity from the signals given off from the nearest tower, but the exact address usually requires being registered first.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don't stop this child, He's the father of man
Don't cross his way, He's part of the plan
I am that child, but so are you
You've just forgotten, Just lost the clue.”

MJ "Magical Child"
Still Rocking my World…
   and leaving me Speechless!

“True goodbyes are the ones never said

Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: April 23, 2011, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: "hesouttamylife"
In the US, if the call is made on a landline, the address comes up in the database.  However if it’s made from a cellular phone that has not been registered with emergency services, they do ask.  They can tell the proximity from the signals given off from the nearest tower, but the exact address usually requires being registered first.

Do you mean that it is a reason why Beverly Hills Hotel address which is on Sunset and very close to Carolwood could have appeared on the ambul. display?
 Could be YES & NO. We can not say for sure that the reason hotel address is on the screen solely because the hotel caught cell phone signals, it is also possible call was actually made from hotel. Hotel is close to Carolwood but cannot be the only the nearest source of signals. If any residential house on the same Carolwood dr. has satellite TV antenna, it could also caught cell phone signals during the call. I am sure there are many neighbors use satellite TV.
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Offline son

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 01, 2011, 06:01:02 PM
Bump!

Should the new website be included? Maybe the Oprah related clues?
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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 07, 2011, 12:11:48 PM
Hi, newbie here :-) Better late than never :)

And my first post is to debunk something LOL ( I am a 50/50 beLIEver ) But I am open to anything, and of course I WANT him to be ALIVE!

I read, this is old "news", that on another MJ site, dont remember which one, but she wrote that a statement from the court that Kenny Ortega had said that Michael's last words to him was, Tomorrow the Illusion begins. (something like that)

this was in 2009 i think.

I found several articles where he had been interviewed and here are 2 links to 2 different sites:

http://http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1932162,00.html - Time Magazine
and
http://http://movies.about.com/od/michaeljacksonthisisit/a/kenny-ortega.htm - Movies

They were working on a big illusion that was going to be in the show, and the illusion would start tomorrow and Michael was very excited about it.

I have to say that for me it clearly states that he was excited to come back and start with the illusion that was going to be on the show.

And this place where I read this statement was made in open court or a hearing. I think that woman who wrote, that she was there etc was a fake. But I honestly don't remember. I have beel watching and reading so much about this now so my head is spinning LOL
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Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 08, 2011, 06:27:15 PM
Quote from: "MadneZ"
Hi, newbie here :-) Better late than never :)

And my first post is to debunk something LOL ( I am a 50/50 beLIEver ) But I am open to anything, and of course I WANT him to be ALIVE!
I read, this is old "news", that on another MJ site, dont remember which one, but she wrote that a statement from the court that Kenny Ortega had said that Michael's last words to him was, Tomorrow the Illusion begins. (something like that)

I found several articles where he had been interviewed and here are 2 links to 2 different sites:

http://http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1932162,00.html - Time Magazine
and
http://http://movies.about.com/od/michaeljacksonthisisit/a/kenny-ortega.htm - Movies

They were working on a big illusion that was going to be in the show, and the illusion would start tomorrow and Michael was very excited about it.
I have to say that for me it clearly states that he was excited to come back and start with the illusion that was going to be on the show.

Welcome. Maybe or maybe not. Rule No1- DON'T BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING YOU READ OR WATCH, UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN OR HEARD THAT FROM MICHAEL'S OR SOMEONE'S OWN MOUTH. Media is the most untrustworthy source on the earth. Does not mean absolute trash but 96%.....way too much; exaggerating facts, twisting, making up, and alike.
For example: Michael said himself in TII that he will be back "on his own time", I believe in hoax based on that.. Or, Jermain slip ups we have videos about and his rather than doctor's announcement of MJ's "death" that is very weird and unbelievable, those are more trustworthy clues.Therefore I believe that this is rather a hoax than not. We don't know if MJ really said about illusion or if he did, how you can be sure he did not mean a hoax, just because of Time Magazine? No way.
Sorry, your debunk is very weak. :)
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Offline MadneZ

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 09, 2011, 04:25:02 AM
Very true hehe, but the other one who wrote that he said_ The illusion starts Tomorrow" was on another hoax site or website and she wrote he said this in a statement (in court I am guessing) she wrote the one who took the statement was a (judge) Twiggy.

I am sorry but I dont remember 100% and I cant find that site I read it again :( but it just sounded weird.

I am 50/50 on that story, I just wanted to let ya'll know that that statement had been used in other content aswell.

Yeah I have heard MJ in some of his interviews and pressconferences from 2002 and up to 2009 making weird statements... Just like the one you wrote above. It get you thinkin :P
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Offline heartphantom

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 09, 2011, 05:38:54 AM
Is there any court transcript at Los Angeles Superior Court website  of Kenny talking about THE ILLUSION or was it just reported by someone and passed away on the internet? and more important, is the person who reported a believer :) ?
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Offline finfin

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 09, 2011, 06:30:35 AM
@heartphantom - I hope this helps about Kenny's testimony
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... rt-ii.html
Plus there is a great deal of information on the forum here about  the pre-lim trial
viewforum.php?f=217
and this is from Twiggy's blog
http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2011/01/ ... lk-of.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
 

"Consciousness expresses itself through creation. This world we live in is the dance of the creator." Michael Jackson

Offline MadneZ

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    • http://madeleinelindberg.com

Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 09, 2011, 09:35:57 AM
a few things that stuck in my mind reading that were:

- It was on MJ's request to film the rehersals!
- MJ seemed to be in a happy energetic mood the day prior to his death.

Sure he might not have known he would be killed the next day...

And the part where there were one day MJ not seemed to be present (he was there but acted weird) sounds like a typicle version of, being extremly high (drugs) and then when the high sets off, lowers down, you tend to drift away, not being present. But it could just as easily him having alot on his mind, alot to think about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline heartphantom

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 09, 2011, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: "finfin"
@heartphantom - I hope this helps about Kenny's testimony
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... rt-ii.html
Plus there is a great deal of information on the forum here about  the pre-lim trial
viewforum.php?f=217
and this is from Twiggy's blog
http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2011/01/ ... lk-of.html

Hi Finfin, thank you for the links and for your time, but what i meant ws was there any official release of court transcripts, not form blogs or reports from other people, from official sources i mean. Because if there are not i can't take the 'ILLUSION part for real. Remmebre, just because you see it in the print...doesn't make it factual
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too.  ~ Voltaire

Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 09, 2011, 02:10:01 PM
Quote from: "MadneZ"
And the part where there were one day MJ not seemed to be present (he was there but acted weird) sounds like a typicle version of, being extremly high (drugs) and then when the high sets off, lowers down, you tend to drift away, not being present. But it could just as easily him having alot on his mind, alot to think about.


I see you have misunderstanding of DRUGs Michael supposedly was taking. Those drugs are NOT CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE like cocaine, marijuana, crack, etc., we are talking about PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONs here that also called DRUG; such as pain killers, for insomnia, perhaps anti-anxiety medications = drugs. THESE  HAVE ADDICTIVE FEATURE, but  they make person  weak, sleepy, relaxed, dizzy, but NOT "HIGH".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
EndlesslovetoMJ

Offline GeorgeSoldier

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 27, 2011, 01:43:23 PM
[size=150]http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/11326 ... ante_.html[/url][/size]

 moonwalk_/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline scorpionchik

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: June 27, 2011, 04:18:23 PM
Hello newbie & welcome. Looks like some latino dude copied and pasted pages from this site.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
EndlesslovetoMJ

Offline son

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Re: Debunked Clues

  • on: July 23, 2012, 12:20:39 PM
Bump, still relevant I think.