Importance

[son]

Within the hoax death theory what clues would you say are the most foundational? Of course there isn't one single piece of evidence that that supports the hoax death theory but rather they all work together like a network. But do you think there are certain clues that would cause the hoax theory to fall (or at least become more flimsy) apart if it was debunked?

I would rank the clues like this (in my opinion):
High
This is it, MJ's own statments, Joe vs Jospeh, Fated

Mid
Slip ups, inconsistent stories, Themes: Liberian girl, etc.

Low
Hoax references in other media, Elvis/Tupac/Paul McCartney comparisons

[scorpionchik]

IMO, Joe vs. Joseph is not a clue at all. Michael named himself many times in different occasions as Michael Joseph Jackson.(see video I posted). When he speaks about his father, he would call him Joe or Joseph. In TII Jackson5 song scene, MJ names his brothers and parents, says "Joseph, Katherine, I love you".
Writing full or short middle name in the USA is not an error to make a clue of it. Therefore we can find different documents of MJ written middle name differently.
What was the case to consider Joe/Joseph as a clue anyway?I kind of forgot. Autopsy, DL?

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[maninthemoon]

IMO, Joe vs. Joseph is not a clue at all. Michael named himself many times in different occasions as Michael Joseph Jackson.(see video I posted). When he speaks about his father, he would call him Joe or Joseph. In TII Jackson5 song scene, MJ names his brothers and parents, says "Joseph, Katherine, I love you".
Writing full or short middle name in the USA is not an error to make a clue of it. Therefore we can find different documents of MJ written middle name differently.
What was the case to consider Joe/Joseph as a clue anyway?I kind of forgot. Autopsy, DL?

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Yeah but there could be another person they got in, named "Michael Joseph Jackson" (slightly different from Joe), - paid his surgeries and stuff.. to make him look just like the king of pop itself. Well, why not? Michael was a perfectionist, he could've done anything.

Michael's name for driving license and everything else was always "Michael Joe Jackson" but in the papers that showed his death it was "Michael Joseph Jackson". To me this would make so much sense, and actually this also verifies he is coming back because if he used his real name he would be sent to prison for the hoax. Many commited suicide just because of him, but to me that's an unsolveable mistake for someone to do.. they are mad for killing themselves just because of that.

[voiceforthesilent]

Within the hoax death theory what clues would you say are the most foundational? Of course there isn't one single piece of evidence that that supports the hoax death theory but rather they all work together like a network. But do you think there are certain clues that would cause the hoax theory to fall (or at least become more flimsy) apart if it was debunked?

I would rank the clues like this (in my opinion):
High
This is it, MJ's own statments, Joe vs Jospeh, Fated

Mid
Slip ups, inconsistent stories, Themes: Liberian girl, etc.

Low
Hoax references in other media, Elvis/Tupac/Paul McCartney comparisons

Thank you for your thought provoking question. I'm not sure there is one thing that if debunked would cause the whole hoax to fall apart.

I guess for starters would be to prove that the person in that ambulance was really Michael, that it was really Michael that flatlined at the home, and that he really did die at the hospital. Prove that it was really Michael's body in that wrapped up sheet in the helicopter and that the hospital personnel really did witness his death. Prove that Karen Faye and company really spent 9 hours with Michael's dead body putting on his makeup and clothes and then lifted him into his casket. Prove without doubt the reason why they would need two caskets. Prove who was in the helicopter that mysteriously went to Neverland within days after Michael's "death". Prove that Michael is really buried in an umarked crypt at FL that has been there for 50 years.

That would be a good start. And that is only covering the first few days of Michael's supposed death. We now have 21 months of clues and "coincidences" with which we have formed our strong beLIEf's.

Blessings

PS - it hasn't been proven that people committed suicide has it? I think those were just rumors.

[maninthemoon]

Within the hoax death theory what clues would you say are the most foundational? Of course there isn't one single piece of evidence that that supports the hoax death theory but rather they all work together like a network. But do you think there are certain clues that would cause the hoax theory to fall (or at least become more flimsy) apart if it was debunked?

I would rank the clues like this (in my opinion):
High
This is it, MJ's own statments, Joe vs Jospeh, Fated

Mid
Slip ups, inconsistent stories, Themes: Liberian girl, etc.

Low
Hoax references in other media, Elvis/Tupac/Paul McCartney comparisons

Thank you for your thought provoking question. I'm not sure there is one thing that if debunked would cause the whole hoax to fall apart.

I guess for starters would be to prove that the person in that ambulance was really Michael, that it was really Michael that flatlined at the home, and that he really did die at the hospital. Prove that it was really Michael's body in that wrapped up sheet in the helicopter and that the hospital personnel really did witness his death. Prove that Karen Faye and company really spent 9 hours with Michael's dead body putting on his makeup and clothes and then lifted him into his casket. Prove without doubt the reason why they would need two caskets. Prove who was in the helicopter that mysteriously went to Neverland within days after Michael's "death". Prove that Michael is really buried in an umarked crypt at FL that has been there for 50 years.

That would be a good start. And that is only covering the first few days of Michael's supposed death. We now have 21 months of clues and "coincidences" with which we have formed our strong beLIEf's.

Blessings

PS - it hasn't been proven that people committed suicide has it? I think those were just rumors.

Yeah, but that's what I've heard. Good example of how rumors form into the truth.. I were told multiple times people committed suicide because of MJ. I believed! But never really even tried to find out as if it's true or just a rumor.

[son]

I would rank the clues like this (in my opinion):
High
This is it, MJ's own statments, [s:1nzsb61d]Joe vs Jospeh[/s:1nzsb61d], Fated, the Body

@ Scorpionchik

Personally, I think the strongest most important pieces of evidence comes from MJ's statements itself, however the Joe vs Joseph thing works for me because I think some one died in MJ's place. It does seem pretty sketchy and not objective enough as a clue so it will be demoted to mid tier.

@ Voiceforthesilent

I agree, if MJ was actually in the ambulance it would be a "blow" to the hoax theory (and making things more complicated) :|

Personally I think Fated is the "Holy grail" of the hoax death theory, unless it's come out already. I'm predicting it will give it all away.

Mid
Slip ups, inconsistent stories, Joe vs Joseph, Themes: Liberian girl, etc.

A slip up can mean anything... however when they begin to add up in a given context... Same thing for the themes.

Low
Hoax references in other media, Elvis/Tupac/Paul McCartney comparisons

As much as I enjoy the Elvis comparison I don't think it's essential to the hoax theory at all, it's fun yet excessive.

[everlastinglove_MJ]

Thank you for your thought provoking question. I'm not sure there is one thing that if debunked would cause the whole hoax to fall apart.

I guess for starters would be to prove that the person in that ambulance was really Michael, that it was really Michael that flatlined at the home, and that he really did die at the hospital. Prove that it was really Michael's body in that wrapped up sheet in the helicopter and that the hospital personnel really did witness his death. Prove that Karen Faye and company really spent 9 hours with Michael's dead body putting on his makeup and clothes and then lifted him into his casket. Prove without doubt the reason why they would need two caskets. Prove who was in the helicopter that mysteriously went to Neverland within days after Michael's "death". Prove that Michael is really buried in an umarked crypt at FL that has been there for 50 years.

That would be a good start. And that is only covering the first few days of Michael's supposed death. We now have 21 months of clues and "coincidences" with which we have formed our strong beLIEf's.

Blessings

PS - it hasn't been proven that people committed suicide has it? I think those were just rumors.

These are exactly the provocative questions in a nutshell for starters. They get challenged to read more of our 21 months of investigation on this forum.

[MjjProd]

London is the Next step.
Let me give you a tip: B. B. !

[MadneZ]

For me personally ofcourse the 1st thing, the main thing that would debunk the death hoax was if it came out actual proof that it was MJ in that ambulance, and proof of his death.

But what would make me personally walk away from the death hoax theory would be:

- A valid confirmed fact from Jackson's themselves why they faked the memorial/funeral (the one on the lawn)
- That the hat man come forwards and proove who he is! And that it 100% shows in fact that it is the same man.

For me it does not make any sence to pre tape a funeral and then air it as if it was live and tell that it was live, when it wasn't. And no one have said anything or proven anything to debunk the hat man. No comments what so ever.

And the Jackson must know that there is a BIG death hoax theory out there, and they would want to set the record clean if MJ really is dead, so that we should put all this to rest.

But NO ONE have, that makes this also a big quesiton, why? Jermaine tweeted out something a while back, but that tweet is still weak. An official statement please and set all the facts straight!

There are to many weird slip ups in both video, interviews, documents, pictures and from all over.

You DONT FAKE A FUNERAL!!! End of story! You dont pre tape it, you dont rehearse it because THERE IS NOTHING TO REHERSE!!! When some one dies, you are sad and have low energy but yes you can try hiding it and choke up the tears, but there were way to much laughing and happiness on that funeral. (thats also weird)

[~Souza~]

MadneZ, can you please try not to bump all those old topics? Rather start a new thread or post in some more recent topics.

[GINAFELICIA]

London is the Next step.
Let me give you a tip: B. B. !

What's BB?!

[MadneZ]

MadneZ, can you please try not to bump all those old topics? Rather start a new thread or post in some more recent topics.

I am sooo sorry I mixed up the question of the topic, I thought it was what would make me think it was NOT a hoax.

Sorry My fault!!!  :oops:

[Cain]

2MJ!??

[all4loveandbelieve]

Within the hoax death theory what clues would you say are the most foundational? Of course there isn't one single piece of evidence that that supports the hoax death theory but rather they all work together like a network. But do you think there are certain clues that would cause the hoax theory to fall (or at least become more flimsy) apart if it was debunked?

I would rank the clues like this (in my opinion):
High
This is it, MJ's own statments, Joe vs Jospeh, Fated

Mid
Slip ups, inconsistent stories, Themes: Liberian girl, etc.

Low
Hoax references in other media, Elvis/Tupac/Paul McCartney comparisons

Thank you for your thought provoking question. I'm not sure there is one thing that if debunked would cause the whole hoax to fall apart.

I guess for starters would be to prove that the person in that ambulance was really Michael, that it was really Michael that flatlined at the home, and that he really did die at the hospital. Prove that it was really Michael's body in that wrapped up sheet in the helicopter and that the hospital personnel really did witness his death. Prove that Karen Faye and company really spent 9 hours with Michael's dead body putting on his makeup and clothes and then lifted him into his casket. Prove without doubt the reason why they would need two caskets. Prove who was in the helicopter that mysteriously went to Neverland within days after Michael's "death". Prove that Michael is really buried in an umarked crypt at FL that has been there for 50 years.

That would be a good start. And that is only covering the first few days of Michael's supposed death. We now have 21 months of clues and "coincidences" with which we have formed our strong beLIEf's.

Blessings 

PS - it hasn't been proven that people committed suicide has it? I think those were just rumors.

Yeah, but that's what I've heard. Good example of how rumors form into the truth.. I were told multiple times people committed suicide because of MJ. I believed! But never really even tried to find out as if it's true or just a rumor. 

apparently it was a rumor.. This is what I read. I cannot find it anymore..