[libra8]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

[~Souza~]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

[libra8]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

I think Teddy wears glasses...maybe he needs to have them adjusted.. :ugeek:
Until then...  8-)
I know for a fact that camera angles, lighting, clothing, makeup etc all affect they way a person photographs. I see lots of illusion, smoke & mirrors in TII, but I think its all MJ, after all he is the Magician.

Tell me why MJ would send doubles to do what he loves and knows how to do the best.

[suspicious mind]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

can't say i feel all that warm and fuzzy about teddy either. don't know exactly what it is.

[~Souza~]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

I think Teddy wears glasses...maybe he needs to have them adjusted.. :ugeek:
Until then...  8-)
I know for a fact that camera angles, lighting, clothing, makeup etc all affect they way a person photographs. I see lots of illusion, smoke & mirrors in TII, but I think its all MJ, after all he is the Magician.

Tell me why MJ would send doubles to do what he loves and knows how to do the best.

To make a point. To show that your eyes can fool you and that if you are being told that it's MJ on stage, you automatically assume that it's true. We did get a hint to look deeper into it and pay attention because Joe hinted at the doubles, but I think he knew most fans wouldn't pay attention to Joe at all. There is too much difference in weight, bodyshape, faces and movements to be all MJ. No one can change that much in days, not even Michael Jackson.

[libra8]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

can't say i feel all that warm and fuzzy about teddy either. don't know exactly what it is.

Its not if I feel warm & fuzzy about teddy.  8-)  

However, I have to admit I'm partial to his Rosary prayer beads he wears becuz it represents a person of either deep spiritual or religious belief, which is a positive thing in my eye.

Anyways   ;)

Its about Teddy & Michael's professional & personal relationship that they have had for many, many years. And becuz of their relationship, I have to believe, the past, this day & beyond, Teddy has Michaels best interest at heart.

[libra8]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

I think Teddy wears glasses...maybe he needs to have them adjusted.. :ugeek:
Until then...  8-)
I know for a fact that camera angles, lighting, clothing, makeup etc all affect they way a person photographs. I see lots of illusion, smoke & mirrors in TII, but I think its all MJ, after all he is the Magician.

Tell me why MJ would send doubles to do what he loves and knows how to do the best.

To make a point. To show that your eyes can fool you and that if you are being told that it's MJ on stage, you automatically assume that it's true. We did get a hint to look deeper into it and pay attention because Joe hinted at the doubles, but I think he knew most fans wouldn't pay attention to Joe at all. There is too much difference in weight, bodyshape, faces and movements to be all MJ. No one can change that much in days, not even Michael Jackson.

Where are these doubles now??
I've seen picture of MJ impersonator/double dressed like TII orange pants guy, but he doesnt look like MJ...he just looks like an impersonator dressed like TII orange pants guy.
As far as Joe goes...I take what Joe says with a grain of salt. However I think what Joe says & does is the opposite of the way things really are. i.e. Joe is meant to be a distraction from the truth.

[RunFaYaLife]

I have to admit when I was watching to 02 announcement on the news ...I blurted out to my daughter "that is NOT Michael Jackson"!

But now ??? The body and gait still does not seem right...as far as the face goes.
Well....we had not seen him for a long time in public...he had aged somewhat
and the biggie with me is...he was having injections done on his nose and face
which explains a lot to me.

Watching the youtube Vid of the 02  announcement again...he still seemed off...
but it could have been jet lag, some anxiety meds....after all he had to be scared to death.
I'm still not sure what to think...but when he announced his concerts and said "This is really IT''...then stepped to the side of the stage and did his happy dance ..considering all of the back story leading up to that...I think it could have been Michael.

[OneLove]

I used to think O2 Michael was a double, but now i think it's him. He likes "controversy" right? He wanted people to have this discussion for years to come right?

[suspicious mind]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

I think Teddy wears glasses...maybe he needs to have them adjusted.. :ugeek:
Until then...  8-)
I know for a fact that camera angles, lighting, clothing, makeup etc all affect they way a person photographs. I see lots of illusion, smoke & mirrors in TII, but I think its all MJ, after all he is the Magician.

Tell me why MJ would send doubles to do what he loves and knows how to do the best.

To make a point. To show that your eyes can fool you and that if you are being told that it's MJ on stage, you automatically assume that it's true. We did get a hint to look deeper into it and pay attention because Joe hinted at the doubles, but I think he knew most fans wouldn't pay attention to Joe at all. There is too much difference in weight, bodyshape, faces and movements to be all MJ. No one can change that much in days, not even Michael Jackson.

Where are these doubles now??
I've seen picture of MJ impersonator/double dressed like TII orange pants guy, but he doesnt look like MJ...he just looks like an impersonator dressed like TII orange pants guy.
As far as Joe goes...I take what Joe says with a grain of salt. However I think what Joe says & does is the opposite of the way things really are. i.e. Joe is meant to be a distraction from the truth.

good point . this person seemed to be built like michael say in the we are the world thing from when was that ? are any of the impersonators that small?

[~Souza~]

Teddy Riley says it was ALL Michael in TII. Teddy would know & speak the truth and have no reason to lie.

Unless Michael Jackson says differently, It would be too presumptuous of me to think it was someone else other then MJ at O2.

Maybe Teddy needs glasses... :geek:

I think Teddy wears glasses...maybe he needs to have them adjusted.. :ugeek:
Until then...  8-)
I know for a fact that camera angles, lighting, clothing, makeup etc all affect they way a person photographs. I see lots of illusion, smoke & mirrors in TII, but I think its all MJ, after all he is the Magician.

Tell me why MJ would send doubles to do what he loves and knows how to do the best.

To make a point. To show that your eyes can fool you and that if you are being told that it's MJ on stage, you automatically assume that it's true. We did get a hint to look deeper into it and pay attention because Joe hinted at the doubles, but I think he knew most fans wouldn't pay attention to Joe at all. There is too much difference in weight, bodyshape, faces and movements to be all MJ. No one can change that much in days, not even Michael Jackson.

Where are these doubles now??

Just living their lives I guess. We have a TV program here in Holland where people are being impersonated by a TV couple, Carlo and Irene. This is how Carlo normally looks like:



This is Carlo as Rene Froger:



This is Rene Froger:



This is how Irene normally looks like:



This is Irene as Gerda Smit:



This is Gerda Smit:



The guy next to Irene as Gerda Smit is again Carlo, as Rene van der Gijp. This is Rene van der Gijp:



And here a YouTube where they do Married with Children:

[youtube:2rlh2tun]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg9QwMLlTw4[/youtube:2rlh2tun]

Prostetic Make-up can change a person a lot, and if you have the right shape of head, you can come pretty close to the person you are impersonating. For this program they have to do several impersonations per episode and it is impossible to look like all the charachters, because they simply can't change their own shape of face, but they do come very close at times.

Here is another example of prostetic make-up which I posted a while ago:

There is still much discussion about disguises and whether or not it would be possible for MJ to walk the streets without his fans recognizing him. I watched a show we have here in Holland yesterday and I wanted to share it with you, to show you how much can be done with make-up, and this is low-budget when you compare it to what Mike is able to do.
Below is a picture of Wendy van Dijk, and Wendy van Dijk again, in prostetic make-up. She fools Dutch celebs with her disguises, and in the video below she fools Marco Borsato, who is a very good personal friend of her, yet he is face to face with her and doesn't recognize her. If he doesn't recognize one of his dearest friends, I am sure fans wouldn't recognize Mike, not even if he were face to face with them.




[youtube:2rlh2tun]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4IA1TwOl3M[/youtube:2rlh2tun]
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15366&p=256941#p256941

[voiceforthesilent]

This has created war of words in the past...and you dare go there :)

Yep...Michael definitely on the right. One, maybe two of the real MJ on the left....but there are fakes mixed in as the others are saying.

It's been documented that Navi was at the 02 that day - however, I don't think that was him on stage. I'm not sure who that was...

It's also been documented that fans swarmed one of the impersonators at the 02 thinking it was Michael - but it wasn't.

[youtube:3ml9a9ax]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1mTtuaaP0M[/youtube:3ml9a9ax]

[voiceforthesilent]

about decoys...

[youtube:9pt4ms2o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdSTg9rMrfI&NR=1[/youtube:9pt4ms2o]

[OneLove]

But Navi doesn't look like MJ at all really. lol

[wendst6]

It's been documented that Navi was at the 02 that day - however, I don't think that was him on stage. I'm not sure who that was...

Yes, Navi was at the O2, but why? Can it be that the guy in London, and TII was  M. Kiss?

Looks at the distance of the glasses to the eyebrows, they are same, of TII and O2
pictures.

[fordtocarr]

I know we all study and see different things in Michael's pictures.  Like both sides of a family seeing "their" side in a baby.  But, let me say this..if that was Michael entirely at TII and the announcement, then he was terribly sick.  Something happened to not only his body, being thin, the height differences, but to his facial structure.  The area between his top lip and nose is much more pronounced.  When he was young, he almost had a slight over/under (?)) bite.  Very cute...but maybe he wanted that corrected, or maybe he was matching the decoy, or maybe it is actually the double.  That is prob. the reason for the mask, though, all the matching surgeries.  But, also, this upper lip area, I've seen this with dental surgery.  When you get dentures the bone slowly goes away and they have to build that area back up with dentures.  They fill the face back out from bone loss because of no teeth.  You can usually tell, if you look, someone wearing dentures because of this...or the need for it.  Also, again...Michael must have lost all the fatty pads in his face.  Had them removed or something.  His entire jawline and chin, that we know is surgical, is different.  I know, as I've had WLS, that when you loose an extreme amount of weight very fast, you loose all the fat in your body.  You are left with skin and bones.  It happened to me.  I was just like "Michael"...skeletal.  Bones over skin.  That is from severe weightloss... OR...sickness.  Again, we know Michael wasn't sick, as he passed that physical and  we know a lot of the dancing, etc. was him, and honest, at 50, I'm thinking even Michael Jackson would've had to be very healthy to have done that.  Also, he (was it even him doing this?) was training with Lou Ferrigno.  So, yep healthy.  This leads me to believe that it was the double, SICK with the thinness, the skeletal face, ultimately, the autopsy that didn't match Michael AT ALL.  I wish I could that the pics and place them over each other and compare.  Compare bone structure and TEETH, as they look different too.  Flatter in the front occasionally.  Also, I've found a pic of Michael with a large "mole" at the back of his neck, a sorta recent one.  Anyone know about that???

[libra8]

But Navi doesn't look like MJ at all really. lol

I agree with you, Navi, Michael Kiss, Riley, even E'Cas & the list goes on...In my eye they dont look like MJ. Maybe from a distance & dim lighting..but they always appear off to me. I can spot them. Dont get me wrong, my hat goes off to these guys becuz I know they work hard at what they do.

Its a known fact MJ lost weight in rehearsal...most people would, so seeing him thinner in different scenes makes sense, since the movie is all spliced together. MJs not a spring chicken, hes not old by any means, as I'm older then him & I see myself young. I'm just saying as we age our bodies shift...so what we see is a young senior citizen MJ.

Were there doubles in TII?  :roll:

I'm certain there was stunt double. As far as other doubles... :roll:

[Sinderella]

The only time I believe I see Michael in TII is when the dancers are auditioning and he's there with his glasses on clapping away and then performing in gold pants,a fedora+glasses.
He is the only one who has no close ups,is featured least through the entire thing,sounds stupid but has his trousers MJ length and I can't really put in to words what I see but I see Michael.When he throws his jacket off his shoulders,moves-it's natural and flows.
No clue who anyone else is,to me,the MJ on stage in grey and red doing TDCAU looks like Michael YEARS ago and the one in the orange trousers....well....I'd like to meet him to inform him he needs dance lessons and needs to eat a few happy meals.

I am seriously trying to refrain from getting into this conversation because it enrages me LOL.

[RunFaYaLife]

I am seriously trying to refrain from getting into this conversation because it enrages me LOL.

Simmer down now...
Anger will accomplish nothing but it will give you a cancer and other diseases.
Roll with it....Everyone has an opinion mon'.
 :mrgreen:

[suspicious mind]

what about the stunt double  :?

[libra8]

what about the stunt double  :?

At :37 you see stunt double & Michael in the same frame.[youtube:3w16fv00]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9moaU4gEY[/youtube:3w16fv00]

[bec]

The only time I believe I see Michael in TII is when the dancers are auditioning and he's there with his glasses on clapping away and then performing in gold pants,a fedora+glasses.
He is the only one who has no close ups,is featured least through the entire thing,sounds stupid but has his trousers MJ length and I can't really put in to words what I see but I see Michael.When he throws his jacket off his shoulders,moves-it's natural and flows.
No clue who anyone else is,to me,the MJ on stage in grey and red doing TDCAU looks like Michael YEARS ago and the one in the orange trousers....well....I'd like to meet him to inform him he needs dance lessons and needs to eat a few happy meals.

I am seriously trying to refrain from getting into this conversation because it enrages me LOL.

That's an interesting take on it. I don't disagree. The more time passes, the less I have a firm stance on who's the real MJ and who's a double, and not just in TII either. So for me it's becoming less of Discovering the Man I Never Knew, and more Discovering that I Never Knew the Man.

Who really is Michael Jackson? I have no bloody idea anymore.

[RunFaYaLife]

At :37 you see stunt double & Michael in the same frame.

He used one in Remember The Time Too.
There is no doubt he did use them.

Who really is Michael Jackson? I have no bloody idea anymore.

I think that was the plan. lol

[MJonmind]

For me the biggest mystery is the two MJ looks in the Bashir interview, especially since the first red shirt MJ says he knows and has a relationship with Blanket's mother, and the second wine shirt MJ says she doesn't know him and he doesn't know her. Their mouths are just totally different. :? If there's 2, I love them both. :?  :?
[youtube:1ia1jx9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrytqCu5VTk[/youtube:1ia1jx9g]

[frogh777]

For me the biggest mystery is the two MJ looks in the Bashir interview, especially since the first red shirt MJ says he knows and has a relationship with Blanket's mother, and the second wine shirt MJ says she doesn't know him and he doesn't know her. Their mouths are just totally different. :? If there's 2, I love them both. :?  :?
[youtube:2b8f02mp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrytqCu5VTk[/youtube:2b8f02mp]

I believe that only time we see MJ appear in the Bashir documentary is in the last 15 minutes. That is the MJ with the wineshirt! That is the reason why he put 7 light on him.