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Quote from: "MJonmind"Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginYes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut... I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...Just more food for thought...
Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
He didn't fool anyone. He had to be safe from his murderers who saw in Michael only MONEY. Stop thinking everything is about you in his life. Family first. Fans after. Deal with it.
Quote from: "vup"He didn't fool anyone. He had to be safe from his murderers who saw in Michael only MONEY. Stop thinking everything is about you in his life. Family first. Fans after. Deal with it. I don't know who thought the way you are saying. I mean, some people might have thought that they deserved more attention, but I am certainly not one of them. I didn't even get to see him in concert, which I kick myself now for it. I should have. I have always been a good and loyal fan of his music and showmanship, but I have always known he is just a man that and his family is whole other world and of course, most certainly it comes first.
Quote from: "Heartsong"Quote from: "MJonmind"Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginYes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut... I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...Just more food for thought...I have seen it IV drip for medically induced coma, but artificial airway was the FIRST consideration. I find it highly negligent that propofol was administered without the airway. Whether a patient dies or not, you are certainly setting him up to.
Quote from: "reading_on"Quote from: "Heartsong"Quote from: "MJonmind"Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginYes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut... I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...Just more food for thought...I have seen it IV drip for medically induced coma, but artificial airway was the FIRST consideration. I find it highly negligent that propofol was administered without the airway. Whether a patient dies or not, you are certainly setting him up to.And that explains the “IV bag containing a milky white substance”, though assuming it was propofol because of its colour may be a mistake. Was toxicology given for exactly what the IV bag contained? If it WAS propofol then it was used to induce a coma and this would explain the presence of the catheter. And this leads to the EMT statement; the patient “looked like a hospice patient” and wasn’t recognised as Michael Jackson. And THIS leads to the theory that the patient WAS a terminally ill hospice patient and it wasn’t MJ at all. MJ didn’t need a catheter or an IV bag if he was only given a push of 25mg. Unless putting MJ into a coma was a regular procedure but just wasn’t done on this particular occasion. A ridiculous notion as I’m sure if this were the case there would be household witnesses to verify.All this evidence totally contradicts Murray’s claim stating he gave MJ 25mg of propofol- only enough to put him out for 10 minutes max. The 150mg found in the bloodstream could be explained by the IV drip but this doesn’t fit with eyewitness accounts of a healthy entertainer who performed strongly the night before and was further required to keep up the effort. I agree with reading_on as well in that 10.30 in the morning was extremely late in the day to be implementing such a debilitating treatment. The description and toxicology findings fit a palliative patient not expecting to leave their bed too often if ever again...
Quote from: "Heartsong"Quote from: "reading_on"Quote from: "Heartsong"Quote from: "MJonmind"Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginYes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut... I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...Just more food for thought...I have seen it IV drip for medically induced coma, but artificial airway was the FIRST consideration. I find it highly negligent that propofol was administered without the airway. Whether a patient dies or not, you are certainly setting him up to.And that explains the “IV bag containing a milky white substance”, though assuming it was propofol because of its colour may be a mistake. Was toxicology given for exactly what the IV bag contained? If it WAS propofol then it was used to induce a coma and this would explain the presence of the catheter. And this leads to the EMT statement; the patient “looked like a hospice patient” and wasn’t recognised as Michael Jackson. And THIS leads to the theory that the patient WAS a terminally ill hospice patient and it wasn’t MJ at all. MJ didn’t need a catheter or an IV bag if he was only given a push of 25mg. Unless putting MJ into a coma was a regular procedure but just wasn’t done on this particular occasion. A ridiculous notion as I’m sure if this were the case there would be household witnesses to verify.All this evidence totally contradicts Murray’s claim stating he gave MJ 25mg of propofol- only enough to put him out for 10 minutes max. The 150mg found in the bloodstream could be explained by the IV drip but this doesn’t fit with eyewitness accounts of a healthy entertainer who performed strongly the night before and was further required to keep up the effort. I agree with reading_on as well in that 10.30 in the morning was extremely late in the day to be implementing such a debilitating treatment. The description and toxicology findings fit a palliative patient not expecting to leave their bed too often if ever again...If you are asleep for 10 mins with propofol you do not need a catheter. I spoke to my friend doctor and he told me that a catheter is put to a patient who cannot get up , eg: a patient who got operated, they put catheter for a while. A patient who is terminally ill who cannot get up anymore . For 10 ,mins he did not need it. He finds this so strange that no one in court is looking at this into depth. They have so many medical people being asked question in court not even one came close to finding out more information. He told me they are making a mokery of medicine and a mokery of the law. Sorry but these are his words. First off he also told me, did they examine the catheter? DNA testing, you know you can find out a DNA with urine, who did it belong to? I think this would have been the first thing to do. if they would test it at this moment, the results wouldn't be conclusive. He said this catheter and propofol was not MIchael's, He also stated that maybe there was also morphine in the IV to numb the pain of the terminally ill person. Which they probably never found out or they keeping it a secret. Blessings
Quote from: "all4loveandbelieve"Quote from: "Heartsong"Quote from: "reading_on"Quote from: "Heartsong"Quote from: "MJonmind"Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginYes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut... I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...Just more food for thought...I have seen it IV drip for medically induced coma, but artificial airway was the FIRST consideration. I find it highly negligent that propofol was administered without the airway. Whether a patient dies or not, you are certainly setting him up to.And that explains the “IV bag containing a milky white substance”, though assuming it was propofol because of its colour may be a mistake. Was toxicology given for exactly what the IV bag contained? If it WAS propofol then it was used to induce a coma and this would explain the presence of the catheter. And this leads to the EMT statement; the patient “looked like a hospice patient” and wasn’t recognised as Michael Jackson. And THIS leads to the theory that the patient WAS a terminally ill hospice patient and it wasn’t MJ at all. MJ didn’t need a catheter or an IV bag if he was only given a push of 25mg. Unless putting MJ into a coma was a regular procedure but just wasn’t done on this particular occasion. A ridiculous notion as I’m sure if this were the case there would be household witnesses to verify.All this evidence totally contradicts Murray’s claim stating he gave MJ 25mg of propofol- only enough to put him out for 10 minutes max. The 150mg found in the bloodstream could be explained by the IV drip but this doesn’t fit with eyewitness accounts of a healthy entertainer who performed strongly the night before and was further required to keep up the effort. I agree with reading_on as well in that 10.30 in the morning was extremely late in the day to be implementing such a debilitating treatment. The description and toxicology findings fit a palliative patient not expecting to leave their bed too often if ever again...If you are asleep for 10 mins with propofol you do not need a catheter. I spoke to my friend doctor and he told me that a catheter is put to a patient who cannot get up , eg: a patient who got operated, they put catheter for a while. A patient who is terminally ill who cannot get up anymore . For 10 ,mins he did not need it. He finds this so strange that no one in court is looking at this into depth. They have so many medical people being asked question in court not even one came close to finding out more information. He told me they are making a mokery of medicine and a mokery of the law. Sorry but these are his words. First off he also told me, did they examine the catheter? DNA testing, you know you can find out a DNA with urine, who did it belong to? I think this would have been the first thing to do. if they would test it at this moment, the results wouldn't be conclusive. He said this catheter and propofol was not MIchael's, He also stated that maybe there was also morphine in the IV to numb the pain of the terminally ill person. Which they probably never found out or they keeping it a secret. BlessingsThese are all good points and I myself was not looking deep enough. The catheter is in place for people on the drip, that are going to be asleep for extended periods. I would not call a few hours extended enough. But do we have any reports about the catheter being in when they reached the house? I thought this was after the fact, and if that is true they may have inserted one at the hospital to try and drain urine for testing.
Even my mother, who worked in the Red Cross (almost like a nurse), when she heard this story, said it does not make sense to give propofol for sleeping, there are many healthy ways to combat insomnia. I believe that Michael, who is a healthy and clever man, in any case would never have taken the propofol. But I do not think that anyone died in his place that day. Blessings
Why would Michael need to cancel rehearsals? They were finished rehearsing.