Serious doubts about the 3 Cascio tracks...

[VeryLittleSusie]

ItsHer, I really admire your confidence and sense of humor!  

But do we have any other evidence besides your ear that this is actually MJ saying those spoken parts in the two tracks in question?
My ear says the vibrato is not MJ style in those tracks. Unless, he swallowed a giant mosquito.  :roll:

[King_Michael]

NO SOUL what so ever in his voice lol compare this with rock with you now i know he recorded that a long time ago but his voice never changed on Invincible he had songs with a lot of soul in them like heaven can wait so something is going on here....

[Its her]

ItsHer, I really admire your confidence and sense of humor!  

But do we have any other evidence besides your ear that this is actually MJ saying those spoken parts in the two tracks in question?
My ear says the vibrato is not MJ style in those tracks. Unless, he swallowed a giant  mosquito.  :roll:

Thank you, thank you. As a matter of fact we DO have better, more convincing evidence! That would be YOUR OWN ears. You would believe yourself, right? Whip them out, here is your homework...

I have listened to Michael Jackson talk for many hundreds of hours--which is a LOT, because he very seldom talks---mostly sings. He has a very, VERY unique way of saying certain words and letters, and it is even more pronounced at certain times.

I don't know what those circumstances are, whether he is overly tired or has had a couple of drinks or antibiotic meds, or just has been all alone (no people at all for a day or a week) and speaks without the influence of anyone else's way of saying things. Just sometimes, he has a more pronounced Southern accent--I feel Alabama--Heaven Knows I Love You and sometimes it is just the way he throws his tongue out on his "L"s, as if he's reverse rolling them. I don't know how else to describe it! I have never heard ANYone say the letter "L" like this, and I've listened to hundreds of thousands--maybe a million people talk, by now.

He has a very whispery, breathy voice sometimes as in BOTDF, and in Keep It In the Closet it sounds like the talking voice breathing on Hollywood Tonight. Also, when he says the word "star" the same way he sings it in Someone In The Dark.

When I loaded all his songs into my new computer, I somehow switched speeds and royally screwed everything up (until it righted itself--either through Media Player online or a reboot---I still don't know!). :cry:  :evil:  Everything was just slow enough to drop his voice low enough to be creepy. I didn't know how to fix it; as I didn't know what I did! I took the time to see if it was each CD or was it just the last few I put on. I listened to about 20-thirty minutes of weirdness.  :oops:

Although, deeper and stretched out, I could still tell it was MJ by the imprint of the way he says things, already in my brain. I can SEE those particular full lips as they say/sing just exactly THAT way.

Listen to the word "performer", on BN and on any public chat/speech he's had with anyone where he says the word. It is HIM. Fast or slow, high or low, I'd know him ANYwhere, as long as I can hear him say enough words which give him away! He sometimes leaves consonants, like d and k off the ends of words, as if his soft palate is swollen, as in an allergic reaction, or infection. He says the words, "truth" and "you", like no one else, because of the way he uses those lips to form the words. He does something unique with words starting with "Th" sometimes. Same tongue thing. He kinda "throws" it out on the "a" in the word "that". This is SO cute. I am not picking him apart, or telling any medical secrets, if he has any---IDK him; I just LOVE his uniqueness, and I know what can change a voice.

One reason you don't see a lot of people covering his works is because everyone knows there is something there, which they cannot top: his heart and soul, in the form of a zillion little emotive all human sounds, which actually MAKE the hit ALL his, pretty much forever... 8-)  

As far as vibrato goes, he always experimented with varying degrees, depending on the song, and how much he worked with it. Listen to You Are My Life, Heal The World", Gone Too Soon, and in She's Out Of My Life. You can also hear him say "don't know" the very same way he says it in Monster, and you can hear the way he says some "L"s.


On another thread---someone said he never says words which should have an "R" sound, as an "A" instead, until the "Michael" album, as if he were trying to sound British. I think the words they used (phonetically)were,  "rest-A-ront", instead of "res-taurant", and "monstA" instead of monstER. Not true. He does this ALL the time. RemembA  :lol: The Time, Keep The Faith, where he says, "surrendA", instead of surrendER. Not only does he say it this way, he passionately, sharply emphasizes the "A" sound.


If you want a sample of some of his "urgent-secret-whispery" talk, as he does on Hollywood Tonight, listen to him talk at the beginning of (and during) Dangerous!!!! Now imagine him speaking this through a PVC pipe or some other goofball thing he and his mad minstrels come up with to create UNIQUE sounds. If you have the equipment, and know what you are doing  :oops:  :lol: , slow it down or whatever is needed (I personally don't think it is needed), to see if MJ says the word "BAAAD" the same way he says it on HT. It is him .

It is ALL MJ, those two places I mentioned (HT & BN). Now, those bad boys (MJ & TR) MAY have thrown some other voice in to throw us off, one time, but until I actually spend time on it, I'm saying it is all Mike. I haven't been listening to the CD for so much investigation as for sheer PLEASURE, but when I heard those lips say the word "performer", my face involuntarily went :        .

Hey, the mind knows what it already knows. 8-)

 And I KNEW  :idea: that the talk parts were what they meant were "enhanced"!

I am telling you, ALL we need to prove it is him is in his genuine previous works.  I listen to something of his every day (addicted :roll: ). Do like they do to find counterfeit money: the experts make themselves very familiar with the genuine. Then, without scrutiny, the true happily matches up and the false, and what   ABOUT it is false, stands out like a stick in the eye.    

[Datroot]

I agree - I've head him sing on many a song where he pronounces the A instead of ER - Do you RemembA when we fell in love - Cos this is THRILLA - is one that most seem to have forgotten.

[VeryLittleSusie]

Hi ItsHer! Thank you for your long and elaborate post I really appreciate that.

You seem to be very convincing in your ideas. Yo convinced me as to the "MonstA-RemembA" pronunciation. Yes, I admit - Michael plays with the pronunciation very often.

Although, I have absolutely no doubts as to "Hollywood Tonight", I mean, my heart and ears say that it is MJ singing the whole song, I DO HAVE doubts as to "Monstah", "Breaking News" and "Keep Your Head Up".

I'd like to you to listen to the following sentences and tell me what you hear:


"KYHU":
"She wipes the tears away" - the word "tears" is revealing - it doesn't sound like MJ at all!
"We can just rise up tell me now" - "rise up" sounds nothing like  MJ
"Don't give up today" -->
"I wish the love would come today" - the pronunciation of "today" is wayyy offf...

"Monstah":
"Just look in the mirror" - the word "just" sounds too hard, MJ pronounces this word much softer
"He's coming at ya
Coming at ya rather to fast
Mama say mama got you in the zig zag" - this whole verse doesn't sound like him. The lower tones are not him. He voice is not as deep as his...

"What you do to me" - "do to me" - it doesn't sound like him.
the verse that starts at 3:50, sung with mosquito-falsetto: "Say you wanna be a star..." and so on - when I first heard it I was like "WTF? Who is it??? It's not him, for God's sake"


I was at the music shop today. I saw "Michael" on the shelf. I always try to touch and hold MJ CD's for a moment when I'm in the music shop (I just can't resist) and I saw the following senence at the back of the CD: "This album contains 9 previously unreleased vocal tracks performed by Michael Jackson. (...)" It enlighted me.

Even if MJ is not properly credited in the booklet - this sentence speaks volumes. If this is a fraud on the part of SONY and they deliberately used the voice of sb else in the recordings, THEY in fact ADMIT IT IS MICHAEL JACKSON by writing this sentence at the back of the cover of the album.
If we manage to prove it's somebody else singing in those tracks then they won't be able to deny and say "It was vever stated in the booklet that those were Mr. Jackson's lead vocals on these three tracks."

"Vocal tracks performed by Michael Jackson" means that SONY say it is Michael Jackson singing lead vocals in all tracks.

[Datroot]

I've always thought it was him on all tracks with maybe a little embellishment  here and there which I do not count as fraud.

[Its her]

Hi ItsHer! Thank you for your long and elaborate post I really appreciate that.

You seem to be very convincing in your ideas. Yo convinced me as to the "MonstA-RemembA" pronunciation. Yes, I admit - Michael plays with the pronunciation very often.

Although, I have absolutely no doubts as to "Hollywood Tonight", I mean, my heart and ears say that it is MJ singing the whole song, I DO HAVE doubts as to "Monstah", "Breaking News" and "Keep Your Head Up".

I'd like to you to listen to the following sentences and tell me what you hear:


"KYHU":
"She wipes the tears away" - the word "tears" is revealing - it doesn't sound like MJ at all!
"We can just rise up tell me now" - "rise up" sounds nothing like  MJ
"Don't give up today" -->
"I wish the love would come today" - the pronunciation of "today" is wayyy offf...

"Monstah":
"Just look in the mirror" - the word "just" sounds too hard, MJ pronounces this word much softer
"He's coming at ya
Coming at ya rather to fast
Mama say mama got you in the zig zag" - this whole verse doesn't sound like him. The lower tones are not him. He voice is not as deep as his...

"What you do to me" - "do to me" - it doesn't sound like him.
the verse that starts at 3:50, sung with mosquito-falsetto: "Say you wanna be a star..." and so on - when I first heard it I was like "WTF? Who is it??? It's not him, for God's sake"


I was at the music shop today. I saw "Michael" on the shelf. I always try to touch and hold MJ CD's for a moment when I'm in the music shop (I just can't resist) and I saw the following senence at the back of the CD: "This album contains 9 previously unreleased vocal tracks performed by Michael Jackson. (...)" It enlighted me.

Even if MJ is not properly credited in the booklet - this sentence speaks volumes. If this is a fraud on the part of SONY and they deliberately used the voice of sb else in the recordings, THEY in fact ADMIT IT IS MICHAEL JACKSON by writing this sentence at the back of the cover of the album.
If we manage to prove it's somebody else singing in those tracks then they won't be able to deny and say "It was vever stated in the booklet that those were Mr. Jackson's lead vocals on these three tracks."

"Vocal tracks performed by Michael Jackson" means that SONY say it is Michael Jackson singing lead vocals in all tracks.

I read somewhere online last year, what Michael Jackson's actual singing range was. The author was very impressed, but as I only understood the concept---not the details, I can only tell you it was 4 octaves. Let's just say it is impressive enough to be written about. 8-) Right away, I thought of Minnie Riperton's Vocal Range, which I had also read was remarkable at 5.5 octaves. Her voice could crack glass. But she was a girl. It is more rare for a man to be so versatile. For those in the know, I copied this from a page on Maximum Jackson (just giving the source; This is all it said):  

Vocal timbre: Spinto, Countertenor, Baritone (in the song 2000 Watts of Invinvible album, for exmaple)
Highest note: B5
Lowest note : E2
Vocal range: 3.6+ octaves (E2-B5; 44 notes by the middle of 1980s according to Seth Riggs, Jackson's vocal consultant (Quote from Seth Riggs); in the 1990s, Riggs said the range expanded to 4 octaves. Apparently, due to aging, Jackson got few additional lower notes, while not losing the highest ones.)

I hear NO   mosquito voices on Michael  (Maybe some Bee action in Breaking News    :lol: .)  Just MJ skillfully stretching his voice to its limits, like warm buttery taffy.

Have you never heard the version of P.Y.T. with will.i.am.?

Are those mosquito voices, to you, on Billie Jean, of MJ singing all the high background vocals all through the song?

What about Smooth Criminal, starting @ 3:06?

What about on Dirty Diana, @ about 4:10, where he is singing something supposedly in character as DD, so high, that I can only guess what he is having her character say. I don't have dog ears.  I hear but couldn't quite guarantee, what sounds like, "Hey, do ya wanna?" over and over, to which he screams "Get OUT!"  

THAT is no mosquito!! That is a Master Vocal Peacock in full display, there AND on MICHAEL.

As for the low notes , MJ had a deeper huskier voice speaking/singing with his brothers, live, which we haven't heard for 30 years. Listen to all of Rock With You on the Jacksons LIVE album, and especially around 3:32-3:35 for some more high notes.

The words you mention, “tears, rise up, today,” require references from his genuine songs or speeches for me to make a comparison. Unless you prove he says it differently, these all sound like MJ to me. And the word “just”, the way MJ says it a lot, is “Jussss”, with no or a very weak “t” at the end. He says it this way right on the first track, too: HMH.  All MJ.

I don't know about the phrase you quoted, either, but he says “Why'd you do it?” both on Monster @ 4:16 , and We've Already Had Enough, @ 5:00.  Same voice. ALL MJ.


I would like to focus more on WHY MJ chose these three, ONLY Cascio related songs to generate all the controversy, more than questioning whether it's MJ or not. It is him, IMHO.

Suppose the big breaking news of the album, IS that none of it is Michael Jackson (which is not the truth).

SO???

There are a lot more dangerous deceptions going on every day all around us, which each of is is just happily, blindly stepping over to go about our own business. Why pick this battle to fight in, that we stupidly bought a HOT (but bogus) product ?  I don't get it.
 
I want to know:

Why #3, #5, #7??  Prime numbers. Why not #s 1, 3, & 5??   Because #1 isn't a prime number. But WHY do they need to be prime??

Why did MJ choose #7 to stir up the MOST scary, rabid,  :shock: volatile mess anyone ever imagined on fan boards??

What is he trying to make us SEE?  Are all the voices talking at the beginning of Breaking News in on the hoax? “FAKING the NEWS”? The only ones I recognize are MJ and Diane Dimond. Is the British accented guy voice Bashir? IDK. Who else?

Or, was the controversy stirred up as a misdirection, to keep SOME one's ears away from

other

things on the album???  :?

“Ignis aeternus” mentioned hearing the tapping of a musical director's staff at the beginning of  BTM.

I know this album is chock full of stuff, but perhaps WE should be attending to THAT track, at the Maestro's insistent tapping!!  It is track #9, which doesn't ring any bells with me...you?  Maybe MJ buried something inside there...

Sorry so lengthy.  :oops: It's all I have now. [/b][/color]

[Liberian Girl Heehee]

I still think it is Michael after listening to all three songs about 1,000 times now.  I hear other vocals too, but Michael is there...sometimes lead, sometimes back-up.  I know it is weird to hear Michael as back-up singer but, I believe it has been done for a reason.  Part of the controversy in is it him, is it Jason, who is it?

I also think it is amazing how many of the people who think it isn't MJ have gotten extremely emotional about their opinion and their opinion of evil Sony.  Nothing short of MJ coming back and saying it is him singing will get them to even open their mind about the possibility.  I hope Michael does come back and tells us whether it is him or not him...either way...as long as he just comes back.   8-)  :lol:

[Billie J]

well many say that it's not Michael singing, breaking the news, keep your head up and monster.
BUT what about Best of joy?? I think it mike singing monster.I can agree he pronounce the word monster weird,but otherwise i think it's mike.

[MJonmind]

I'm struggling a bit with the 3 songs on the album, but enjoying them along with the others. I just know that I was with the crowd that believed parts of TII were not Michael, and that 02 MJ was not him. I've come to completely believe they WERE him, with deliberate subtle morphing he did.  He has ways and means 8-)  :oops: .

Its her
That is a Master Vocal Peacock in full display, there AND on MICHAEL.

:lol:  :lol:
[attachment=0:p3xrnxxm]peacock-wooing-peahen1[1].jpg[/attachment:p3xrnxxm]
Keeping on wooing and wowing us, MJ!

[hope]

I still think it is Michael after listening to all three songs about 1,000 times now.  I hear other vocals too, but Michael is there...sometimes lead, sometimes back-up.  I know it is weird to hear Michael as back-up singer but, I believe it has been done for a reason.  Part of the controversy in is it him, is it Jason, who is it?

I also think it is amazing how many of the people who think it isn't MJ have gotten extremely emotional about their opinion and their opinion of evil Sony.  Nothing short of MJ coming back and saying it is him singing will get them to even open their mind about the possibility.  I hope Michael does come back and tells us whether it is him or not him...either way...as long as he just comes back.   8-)  :lol:

Thats how I feel as well. I can hear him in ALL the songs, but not lead in some. We do not know for sure if Sony OR the estate have ALL the unreleased songs. Michael may have only left a few, just for this purpose. My opinion is that 3 or 4 of the songs were actually incomplete with Michaels recordings, and Sony and the estate mixed Michaels recordings with someone elses voice. thats why we can hear bits and pieces of Michael, but where Michael still had not recorded the lead yet, they had to find someone else for the lead. I hope that makes sense.

[Its her]

Its her
That is a Master Vocal Peacock in full display, there AND on MICHAEL.

Keeping on wooing and wowing us, MJ :!:

:lol:  :lol:

[attachment=0:hxwqggt8]peacock-wooing-peahen1[1].jpg[/attachment:hxwqggt8]

My wish EXACTLY. We are so blessed to have observed and heard this Phenomenon LIVE in our lifetimes. Sometimes I can almost "FEEL" his invisible dress feathers fully splayed as he works his magic onstage (remember Black & White? )  he   makes you feel him. He's bigger than life. There will NEVER be another Michael Jackson, in ANYone's lifetime...Thank you for the picture. Isn't he pretty!!

[Its her]

I'm struggling a bit with the 3 songs on the album, but enjoying them along with the others. I just know that I was with the crowd that believed parts of TII were not Michael, and that 02 MJ was not him. I've come to completely believe they WERE him, with deliberate subtle morphing he did.  He has ways and means 8-)  :oops: .

Its her
That is a Master Vocal Peacock in full display, there AND on MICHAEL.

:lol:  :lol:
[attachment=0:2oux8anl]peacock-wooing-peahen1[1].jpg[/attachment:2oux8anl]
Keeping on wooing and wowing us, MJ :!:  

My wish EXACTLY. We are so blessed to have observed and heard this Phenomenon LIVE in our lifetimes. Sometimes I can almost "FEEL" his invisible dress feathers fully splayed as he works his magic onstage (remember Black & White? )  he   makes you feel him. He's bigger than life. There will NEVER be another Michael Jackson, in ANYone's lifetime...Thank you for the picture. Isn't he pretty!! (Too bad I can't reproduce the picture, here, after many attempts! Please see above... )

[VeryLittleSusie]

Posting this link here from another thread. Credit to: Gstadpro


[youtube:1txw7van]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEdyxV1lsdg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:1txw7van]

[Le Papillon Bleu]

To me this video confirms my beliefs that Malachi played a good part on this Cd.
Monster Breaking News  Keep Your Head Up...and maybe much more...Katherine was right.