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*Mo*

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
Mo, you seemed to take on TS too in one of the posts on this thread.  I'm certainly not defending him at all but that appears to be a big shift for you?

What's so strange about having questions for TS..?  Just because I'm one of the website owners I can't ask him questions without people jumping to conclusions?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: "*Mo*"
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Quote from: "*Mo*"

Talking about jumping to conclusions and assuming things...  :?

Can you really blame us? I think that precautions are a good thing no matter what is or isn't going on here. I have not come to any conclusion and I tend to think that you and Souza probably disagree on more than we know about...you are two different people afterall. But with this huge shift in opinion that this is a murder made to look like a hoax, then it's only natural for people to question the motives/involvement of those who created this hoax forum. Can it be justified? Maybe, maybe not, but it's human nature.

Who said that this is a murder made to look like a hoax?  I did?  I think not Jaci...

The only thing I stated regarding "hoax" was:

Quote from: "*Mo*"
There are several "clues" we clamp on to, which in fact don't hold any standing but are merely based on believe instead of on solid proof.
I stick to that.  People are very easily accepting anything that supports the hoax theory, but when someone posts something that isn't "hoaxie" enough or a good reason as to why something shouldn't be considered a clue it gets ignored or people come up with the most absurd "reasons" as to why it should support the hoax.  That's not very realistic.  After all we're here to investigate, and not to just accept something because it comforts our beliefs.

That is why I said yesterday:
Quote from: "*Mo*"
I think it's about time that we start assessing ALL the "evidence" we have been provided with by the "evidence" itself, and not by the person who brought it.
So as far as I'm concerned it's back to investigation mode, whatever the outcome may be.[/b]

Ok, fair enough. Thank you for clearing that up, Mo. Nobody actually said the words about the murder theory, I didn't say that you did. But it was implied several times and people got carried away with it. I know exactly what you mean about people dismissing any information that doesn't fit their beliefs, but I just think so much emphasis has been put on this that we're forgetting EVERYTHING we've learned so far, and could be missing out on other things that are going on because we're so focused on this.
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What you have just witnessed could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn’t. It’s the beginning.

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*

curls

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:33:57 PM
What the heck is going on round here?  I go away for a couple of days and suddenly all hell's broken loose. I can't believe the things I've been reading here today. I don't know what to say. I'm in shock.

I think we all need to go back to basics, to weed out the things that personally we may have started to believe that actually carry no weight. We need to quietly think for ourselves.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:34:55 PM
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Quote from: "*Mo*"

Talking about jumping to conclusions and assuming things...  :?

Can you really blame us? I think that precautions are a good thing no matter what is or isn't going on here. I have not come to any conclusion and I tend to think that you and Souza probably disagree on more than we know about...you are two different people afterall. But with this huge shift in opinion that this is a murder made to look like a hoax, then it's only natural for people to question the motives/involvement of those who created this hoax forum. Can it be justified? Maybe, maybe not, but it's human nature.


? Did I miss something :?:  :shock:  please explain  "murder made to look like a hoax"   :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~Souza~Topic starter

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:38:13 PM
Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
That's good news Souza, but those of us who were around with the first forum, we prepare for anything, you know?  I don't know what it means for two owners of a site to fight in public.  

Mo, you seemed to take on TS too in one of the posts on this thread.  I'm certainly not defending him at all but that appears to be a big shift for you?  Also, Mo and Souza fighting on the forum?  You can't do that privately?   Makes me think there is a reason for it, so I prepare is all... No biggie if this all blows over, I hope so...

I understand completely, but believe me when I say that the site will stay.

And fighting privately doesn't seem to be possible, not my choice, sorry for that. I could have kept my posts and opinions to myself, but in my opinion this whole issue was getting out of hand while it wasn't even true that the lawyer posted false information. I was attacked by Mo and a moderator for not sharing information, I pointed out it has always been there for anyone to see, that they didn't read the blogs clearly they were addressing, because the info was clearly in there. I can shut my mouth for a long time, until people get accused of lying while it's not true. If someone would say it about me, I would appreciate it too if someone could set the record straight.

I have no problem with discussing a possible murder plot, because i think there has been one (even though they were not succesful), but this was turning into something where people wanted to convince others that that was the point, and people were accused of whatever, based only on assumption. Sorry, but I don't like that and I felt the urge to say something. I am not someone to sit quietly in the corner watching a war unfold.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: "Ijustcantstoplovingu"
Quote from: "jacilovesmichael"
Quote from: "*Mo*"

Talking about jumping to conclusions and assuming things...  :?

Can you really blame us? I think that precautions are a good thing no matter what is or isn't going on here. I have not come to any conclusion and I tend to think that you and Souza probably disagree on more than we know about...you are two different people afterall. But with this huge shift in opinion that this is a murder made to look like a hoax, then it's only natural for people to question the motives/involvement of those who created this hoax forum. Can it be justified? Maybe, maybe not, but it's human nature.


? Did I miss something :?:  :shock:  please explain  "murder made to look like a hoax"   :?

I'm sorry that I chose those words. Nobody actually SAID that, it was implied. You can read the entire thread started by Mo about Eliza's DNA evidence to see how we got to this point. Obviously the murder theory is nothing new though.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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What you have just witnessed could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn’t. It’s the beginning.

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Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:43:39 PM
Quote from: "*Mo*"
Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
Mo, you seemed to take on TS too in one of the posts on this thread.  I'm certainly not defending him at all but that appears to be a big shift for you?

What's so strange about having questions for TS..?  Just because I'm one of the website owners I can't ask him questions without people jumping to conclusions?

Nothing is "so strange" about that necessarily. I do say it appears to be a "shift" all of a sudden and I'm just noticing the pattern of things in the last few days.    I'm with you with what you asked of TS. I'm glad you did it.   What is strange is the public fight  eventhough we know that Mo and Souza are two different people who obviously differ from time to time but the difference in thought about TS and Eliza stuff is quite striking - to me.  Something just stands out about all this today is all, but now that it's happened, we shall move on -- prepared for anything.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*Mo*

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:49:15 PM

Whatever way you look at it, probate lawyer Andrew Mayoras did post misleading information.  Although he wrote about the Chain of Custody:

"Eliza can establish the chain of custody showing how she obtained the samples."

As we know by now, this is not possible.
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jono

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 02:54:10 PM
Well... I sure am looking forward to tomorrows redirect  :lol:

Goodnight everyone!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein

*

~Souza~Topic starter

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 03:01:41 PM
Quote from: "*Mo*"

Whatever way you look at it, probate lawyer Andrew Mayoras did post misleading information.  Although he wrote about the Chain of Custody:

"Eliza can establish the chain of custody showing how she obtained the samples."

As we know by now, this is not possible.

You mean proof of Chain of Custody, not the Chain of Custody itself. It's not the same.

Quote
The movement and location of physical evidence from the time it is obtained until the time it is presented in court.

Judges in bench trials and jurors in jury trials are obligated to decide cases on the evidence that is presented to them in court. Neither judges nor jurors may conduct their own investigations into the underlying facts of a given case. In fact, state and federal court rules prohibit judges and jurors from being swayed by, or even taking into consideration, extrajudicial evidence—that is, evidence that is not properly admitted into the record pursuant to the rules of evidence—in rendering their decisions.

Similarly, parties to civil and criminal litigation depend on judges and juries to impartially weigh the evidence, and only the evidence, that is properly admitted into the record. Every day, across the United States, litigants stake their reputations, livelihoods, bank accounts, homes, Personal Property, and freedom on the premise that the outcome to their judicial proceedings will be one that is reached fairly and justly, according to the evidence.

Court-rendered judgments and jury verdicts that are based on tainted, unreliable, or compromised evidence would undermine the integrity of the entire legal system if such outcomes became commonplace. One way in which the law tries to ensure the integrity of evidence is by requiring proof of the chain of custody by the party who is seeking to introduce a particular piece of evidence.

Proof of a chain of custody is required when the evidence that is sought to be introduced at trial is not unique or where the relevance of the evidence depends on its analysis after seizure. A proper chain of custody requires three types of testimony: (1) testimony that a piece of evidence is what it purports to be (for example, a litigant's blood sample); (2) testimony of continuous possession by each individual who has had possession of the evidence from the time it is seized until the time it is presented in court; and (3) testimony by each person who has had possession that the particular piece of evidence remained in substantially the same condition from the moment one person took possession until the moment that person released the evidence into the custody of another (for example, testimony that the evidence was stored in a secure location where no one but the person in custody had access to it).

Proving chain of custody is necessary to "lay a foundation" for the evidence in question, by showing the absence of alteration, substitution, or change of condition. Specifically, foundation testimony for tangible evidence requires that exhibits be identified as being in substantially the same condition as they were at the time the evidence was seized, and that the exhibit has remained in that condition through an unbroken chain of custody. For example, suppose that in a prosecution for possession of illegal narcotics, police sergeant A recovers drugs from the defendant; A gives police officer B the drugs; B then gives the drugs to police scientist C, who conducts an analysis of the drugs; C gives the drugs to police detective D, who brings the drugs to court. The testimony of A, B, C, and D constitute a "chain of custody" for the drugs, and the prosecution would need to offer testimony by each person in the chain to establish both the condition and identification of the evidence, unless the defendant stipulated as to the chain of custody in order to save time.

Chain of custody need not be demonstrated for every piece of tangible evidence that is accepted into the trial court's record. Physical evidence that is readily identifiable by the witness might not need to be supported by chain-of-custody proof. For example, no chain-of-custody foundation is required for items that are imprinted with a serial number or inscribed with initials by an officer who collected the evidence. Similarly, items that are inherently distinctive or memorable (for example, a holdup note written in purple crayon) might be sufficiently unique and identifiable that they establish the integrity of the evidence.

Whether the requisite foundation has been laid to establish chain of custody for an exhibit is a matter of discretion on the part of the trial judge. Possibilities of misidentification and adulteration must be eliminated, not absolutely, but as a matter of reasonable probability. Where there is sufficient testimony that the evidence is what it purports to be, and that testimony is offered by each responsible person in the chain of custody, discrepancies as to accuracy or reliability of testimony regarding the chain of custody go to the weight of the evidence and not to its admissibility, meaning that the evidence would be admitted into the record for the judge or jury to evaluate in light of any conflicting testimony that the chain of custody somehow had been compromised. While the party who offers the evidence has the burden of demonstrating the chain of custody, the party against whom the evidence is offered must timely object to the evidence when it is first introduced at trial, or the party will waive any objections as to its integrity based on a compromised chain of custody.
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Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*Mo*

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "*Mo*"

Whatever way you look at it, probate lawyer Andrew Mayoras did post misleading information.  Although he wrote about the Chain of Custody:

"Eliza can establish the chain of custody showing how she obtained the samples."

As we know by now, this is not possible.

You mean proof of Chain of Custody, not the Chain of Custody itself. It's not the same.

Quote
The movement and location of physical evidence from the time it is obtained until the time it is presented in court.

Judges in bench trials and jurors in jury trials are obligated to decide cases on the evidence that is presented to them in court. Neither judges nor jurors may conduct their own investigations into the underlying facts of a given case. In fact, state and federal court rules prohibit judges and jurors from being swayed by, or even taking into consideration, extrajudicial evidence—that is, evidence that is not properly admitted into the record pursuant to the rules of evidence—in rendering their decisions.

Similarly, parties to civil and criminal litigation depend on judges and juries to impartially weigh the evidence, and only the evidence, that is properly admitted into the record. Every day, across the United States, litigants stake their reputations, livelihoods, bank accounts, homes, Personal Property, and freedom on the premise that the outcome to their judicial proceedings will be one that is reached fairly and justly, according to the evidence.

Court-rendered judgments and jury verdicts that are based on tainted, unreliable, or compromised evidence would undermine the integrity of the entire legal system if such outcomes became commonplace. One way in which the law tries to ensure the integrity of evidence is by requiring proof of the chain of custody by the party who is seeking to introduce a particular piece of evidence.

Proof of a chain of custody is required when the evidence that is sought to be introduced at trial is not unique or where the relevance of the evidence depends on its analysis after seizure. A proper chain of custody requires three types of testimony: (1) testimony that a piece of evidence is what it purports to be (for example, a litigant's blood sample); (2) testimony of continuous possession by each individual who has had possession of the evidence from the time it is seized until the time it is presented in court; and (3) testimony by each person who has had possession that the particular piece of evidence remained in substantially the same condition from the moment one person took possession until the moment that person released the evidence into the custody of another (for example, testimony that the evidence was stored in a secure location where no one but the person in custody had access to it).

Proving chain of custody is necessary to "lay a foundation" for the evidence in question, by showing the absence of alteration, substitution, or change of condition. Specifically, foundation testimony for tangible evidence requires that exhibits be identified as being in substantially the same condition as they were at the time the evidence was seized, and that the exhibit has remained in that condition through an unbroken chain of custody. For example, suppose that in a prosecution for possession of illegal narcotics, police sergeant A recovers drugs from the defendant; A gives police officer B the drugs; B then gives the drugs to police scientist C, who conducts an analysis of the drugs; C gives the drugs to police detective D, who brings the drugs to court. The testimony of A, B, C, and D constitute a "chain of custody" for the drugs, and the prosecution would need to offer testimony by each person in the chain to establish both the condition and identification of the evidence, unless the defendant stipulated as to the chain of custody in order to save time.

Chain of custody need not be demonstrated for every piece of tangible evidence that is accepted into the trial court's record. Physical evidence that is readily identifiable by the witness might not need to be supported by chain-of-custody proof. For example, no chain-of-custody foundation is required for items that are imprinted with a serial number or inscribed with initials by an officer who collected the evidence. Similarly, items that are inherently distinctive or memorable (for example, a holdup note written in purple crayon) might be sufficiently unique and identifiable that they establish the integrity of the evidence.

Whether the requisite foundation has been laid to establish chain of custody for an exhibit is a matter of discretion on the part of the trial judge. Possibilities of misidentification and adulteration must be eliminated, not absolutely, but as a matter of reasonable probability. Where there is sufficient testimony that the evidence is what it purports to be, and that testimony is offered by each responsible person in the chain of custody, discrepancies as to accuracy or reliability of testimony regarding the chain of custody go to the weight of the evidence and not to its admissibility, meaning that the evidence would be admitted into the record for the judge or jury to evaluate in light of any conflicting testimony that the chain of custody somehow had been compromised. While the party who offers the evidence has the burden of demonstrating the chain of custody, the party against whom the evidence is offered must timely object to the evidence when it is first introduced at trial, or the party will waive any objections as to its integrity based on a compromised chain of custody.
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Thank you for the information, and thank you for proving me right.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

suspicious mind

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: "jono[size=150
"]Well... I sure am looking forward to tomorrows redirect  :lol: [/size]Goodnight everyone!

yeah won't the next one be interesting ;)

all the confusion the guy could now say the grass is green and we will all be paranoid :?
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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

*

~Souza~Topic starter

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 03:19:31 PM
You didn't get my point Mo, I pointed out the lawyer did post the right information, while you said he didn't and were calling his information distorted. I never opposed the fact that the DNA evidence wasn't obtained through a legal procedure. Please read my post and stop this madness against me. This is not doing any good to anyone. I already told you that if you have issues, you have my e-mail address.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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MissG

Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 03:21:51 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "jono[size=150
"]Well... I sure am looking forward to tomorrows redirect  :lol: [/size]Goodnight everyone!

yeah won't the next one be interesting ;)

all the confusion the guy could now say the grass is green and we will all be paranoid :?

GREEN, did you say green?

like in the visions  :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

*Mo*

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/23
November 23, 2010, 03:24:05 PM

I rest my case and move on to the next thing that needs to be investigated.

Make piece, not war  :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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