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curls

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 04:54:51 AM
Oops, sorry folks! Seems I posted on 11/18 when I thought it was here, 11/19!

It's worth reading twice though, don't you think? I have great respect and admiration for MJ's deeply personal view of God. He didn't just pluck that description from 'some book' - it came from deep within his heart.

Thanks Anna for moving it here!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 04:56:56 AM
I don't think anyone is denying Michael is religious, and he would probably use these passages to point us in a certain direction, but what's at issue here is whether the non-religious among us are being left out.  I don't think we are, I think the passages can be interpreted and applied by non-religious people too, and I don't think Michael is saying that only religious people can participate and understand.  It's not an exclusive club.  Anna and Tarja are understandably distrustful of any thought of religious conditioning, and as I said before I don't think that's what's happening here.  It's up to each of us to make our own decision. No-one will tell me what to think or force their beliefs on me and I think as long as we all accept that we're not all clones and have our own ideas and beliefs we'll get along fine.  Only when judging others starts to creep in (as I have started to witness unfortunately) then we have something to worry about.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream.  And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.

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_Anna_

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:03:14 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
I don't think anyone is denying Michael is religious, and he would probably use these passages to point us in a certain direction, but what's at issue here is whether the non-religious among us are being left out.  
This answer is to Serenity_Dreams who said that I don't want to accept Michael is religious. It's not that I don't want to accept it, I accept it and respect that. The issue here is, and I ask you because you said "If you want to dismiss this than that is fine but then you don't know or understand Michael at all"- and that should mean that if Michael's message in this situation is God and if I do not believe in it and won't change my beliefs that would mean I should be out of it as long as I do not share the same belief? That should mean that Michael discriminates people? I don't think that's what it is in his heart.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:24:01 AM
That was a great post by Melody!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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أملي هو فيكم.

Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:25:24 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "trustno1"
I don't think anyone is denying Michael is religious, and he would probably use these passages to point us in a certain direction, but what's at issue here is whether the non-religious among us are being left out.  
This answer is to Serenity_Dreams who said that I don't want to accept Michael is religious. It's not that I don't want to accept it, I accept it and respect that. The issue here is, and I ask you because you said "If you want to dismiss this than that is fine but then you don't know or understand Michael at all"- and that should mean that if Michael's message in this situation is God and if I do not believe in it and won't change my beliefs that would mean I should be out of it as long as I do not share the same belief? That should mean that Michael discriminates people? I don't think that's what it is in his heart.

No it means that God, the bible, spirituality etc are all very important to Michael, this is his hoax and spirituality has played a very important role in his life and is part of the hoax. If you want to understand what is going on you have to put your beliefs to the side and place yourself in Michael's shoes. To understand the man and his hoax is to look at his life, what is important to him and from his perspective. His messages are in the music, his channelling from a higher power, his philosophy on life, his beliefs and not yours.

There is no discrimination involved at all, "This is It, Michael Jackson as you've never seen him before". Maybe what that really means is Michael Jackson is going to change how he has been perceived, no more "media created persona" but the real Michael. You have a right to beLIEve whatever you choose but without really opening your mind to what Michael believes you aren't going to get Michael's message nor understand the reasons behind the hoax; it is all connected.

I mean seriously you asked where did Michael say he read the bible daily. I posted quotes from interviews that aired on television and were published in magazines that show Michael did say he read the bible daily and you just dismiss it. You say you've seen it before. So I interpret that as, you already know all of that, yet you said you never knew he said it in your previous post.

I am not going to continue spending my time, researching something for you, that gives you the answer to your question and then have you just brush it off. It isn't up to me or anyone one else to convince you of anything. If you want to explore the possibilities do it, if you don't then don't. Your acceptance of who Michael really is, his messages and understanding this hoax are your own responsibility, especially if the answers to your question has already been given by the man himself, in his own words.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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_Anna_

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:35:09 AM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

I mean seriously you asked where did Michael say he read the bible daily. I posted quotes from interviews that aired on television and were published in magazines that show Michael did say he read the bible daily and you just dismiss it. You say you've seen it before. So I interpret that as, you already know all of that, yet you said you never knew he said it in your previous post.

No, the reason why I said where can I see Michael saying that was regarding strictly to the statement "Michael reads the Bible daily". And Michael said he is spiritual and that God for him has no form, it's creation. He didn't say he reads the Bible daily. So I wanted to see if it's only me who never saw him saying that. From being spiritual to "reading the Bible daily" is another thing. It's a statement that didn't come out of his mouth, but it was said and taken as it is.

Do people know what he does after he closes the door to his room?I strictly referred to that particular statement.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:37:51 AM
Quote from: "_Anna_"
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

I mean seriously you asked where did Michael say he read the bible daily. I posted quotes from interviews that aired on television and were published in magazines that show Michael did say he read the bible daily and you just dismiss it. You say you've seen it before. So I interpret that as, you already know all of that, yet you said you never knew he said it in your previous post.

No, the reason why I said where can I see Michael saying that was regarding strictly to the statement "Michael reads the Bible daily". And Michael said he is spiritual and that God for him has no form, it's creation. He didn't say he reads the Bible daily. So I wanted to see if it's only me who never saw him saying that. From being spiritual to "reading the Bible daily" is another thing. It's a statement that didn't come out of his mouth, but it was said and takes as it is.

Do people know what he does after he closes the door to his room?

He did say it...

Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"

Michael Jackson

On studying the Bible: 1976 "Black Stars" Magazine interview
"Each day I take time out to study the Bible, no matter where I am. The teachings of the Bible have added a new dimension to my life. It, somehow, makes me whole."

1979 Ebony Magazine
"I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know I’m an imperfect person… I’m not making myself an angel because I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be the best I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple…I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, "Oh, God, that’s beautiful." I say little prayers like that all through the day."

2003 60 Minutes TV interview with Ed Bradley
"I will never stop helping and loving people the way Jesus said to. He said "Continue to love. Always love. Remember children. Imitate the children." Not childish, but childlike."

2005 At Large with Geraldo Rivera TV Interview
"Caring. And reading the Bible, learning about God, Jesus, love. He said, 'Bring on the children', 'Imitate the children', 'Be like the children' and 'Take care of others.' Take care of old people. And we were raised with those values. Those are very important values and my family and I we were raised with those values and they continue strong in us today."

"It's important to love your neighbors.  I truly think it comes from my mother and God. The way we were raised. The values my mother instilled in us in youth. She was always with the Bible teaching us - we’d go to service all the time. Four times a week, and I’m so glad we did that because those values are very important. I don’t know if I could have done as well without them."

"I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say "where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?" I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new.  I always have been."

Time Magazine
Seth Riggs, a vocal teacher who worked with Michael for two hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week while Michael was recording Thriller and also on subsequent projects, commented on Michael's character in a Time Magazine article.  "Michael is a very special man. He would come in for his lesson and sit down and we would have a prayer and then read the Bible and then have another prayer and start to work.  That's the way he liked to begin his day.  Can you imagine a performer as big as Michael Jackson turning around in a lesson and discussing how wonderful God has been to him and how much he loves God?"
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Michael Jackson Bodyguards' Q&A:
06/17/2010
Among the tidbits shared by the bodyguards? Michael Jackson cooked home-made meals for his kids, owned a chocolate lab named Kenya, read the Bible daily, used his zoo as a pick-up line, loved Subway, and even had his own Facebook account.
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Did Michael Jackson read the bible?
Yes, Michael Jackson was very well read on the Bible and could quote scripture from memory.
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Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 05:39:01 AM by Serenitys_Dream
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Tarja

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:38:00 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Michael said he believes in God, even very much...... who believes in God reads the Bible, maybe not daily but often enough to learn the message.

My mother does believe in God since I know her and she told me that she never ever took the Bible in her hands. I don't think it's a rule at all
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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[size=150]I won\'t be using this account/ID name anymore. My name is Yulia, for who wants to know. Souza, you can delete this account if you want to.I\'m not using it anymore.[/size]

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_Anna_

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:43:05 AM
I will leave it here, as it's a constant agruement and no one has the right to push opinions on anybody.

I should have never opened the subject, it's clear as daylight that the belief in God and religion has been separating people since centuries. We'll never agree on this subject and this leads just to war.

It just hurts to see that as long as I respect other's opinions, Michael's opinion and beliefs, I am somehow told to get out because I don't understand Michael's message. If Michael's message is God and belief then even then, it doesn't mean I have to convert to the idea. I respect it but I don't follow that path.
Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 05:43:29 AM by _Anna_
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trublu

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:43:13 AM
Quote from: "Tarja"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Michael said he believes in God, even very much...... who believes in God reads the Bible, maybe not daily but often enough to learn the message.

My mother does believe in God since I know her and she told me that she never ever took the Bible in her hands. I don't think it's a rule at all

And also not all people who believe in God are Christians...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Tarja

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 05:51:16 AM
Quote from: "trustno1"
I agree fully with something my Grandpa told me once, you can never win an argument over sport, politics or religion so don't even get into one!

Your grandpa is so right.. and i don't even know I opened my mouth when I knew this would happen. But that's me and I am who I am. Never a non religious person  will win an argument with a religious person. And if they have 1000 arguments to show me they are right and that the religion will save the world, that the Bible is God's word, I'll have 1001 arguments to say it could be very different. So, I'll take your grandpa's advice.

You know, it's not even about being religious or not. It's about the fact that religion CAN be used in a malicious way no matter how people don't want to accept it. Religious rituals and brainwashing have been among people since thousands of years.  Religion is not only all good as people think. Religion at an extreme can harm and it's scary that people are not aware of it.

It is not about TS is redirecting only religious quotes lately, it's about the fact that if religion can be used ALSO in a malicious way, who can demonstrate or be sure that TS is using it in a good way? Who can  be sure TS is speaking Michael's words? Who can be sure of anything? This is what I was saying since 2 days ago and no one seems to understand. It is not about the fact TS redirects to the Bible it's the fact that no one knows if TS' intention with this is good or bad, because religion can be used also with a bad intention. What I was trying to do is warn people to  stop for 5 minutes and regard all the possibilities that  EVERYONE who appears on the forums and states something. No matter how intelligent that someone looks. If you can't demonstrate their theories are false it doesn't mean their theories are true. There might always be the possibility that  someone would appear and demonstrate it. It was just a warn, a kind of human care if you want to give it a name. Because I know what religion can do and how much it is able to harm humans if it is used with bad intentions.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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[size=150]I won\'t be using this account/ID name anymore. My name is Yulia, for who wants to know. Souza, you can delete this account if you want to.I\'m not using it anymore.[/size]

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MissG

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 08:08:23 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "lilwendy"
However, to preach at someone doesn't do anything.  If you guide people through a process of self discovery, personal research, etc.  They will then make up their own minds.

This is that journey again IMHO.  This is the school of MJ! LOL

I said a long time ago (with MJ's background of JWs in mind)that this was the biggest and most unusual door-knocking exercise MJ has ever undertaken! That may sound flippant, but I don't mean it to be.

He he  :D  I also wrote a similar thought here and there.

Feels like virtual/ new days preaching doesn´t it?  ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

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MissG

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 08:16:19 AM
Well, well  :D

At the end all of us are reading the passages of the Bible  ;)  atheists, agnostics, muslims...all of us....

I guess that this can be called mission accomplished hihi hehe huhu
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

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sandythyme

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 08:42:40 AM
I just want to say, Melody, Lilwendy, The running girl and Serenitys_Dream, Thank you.  Well said! Great referencing!  I am a spiritual person, not religious but I truly believe in God.  I love it when we get messages from the bible because I do not know a lot about the bible.  I find it encouraging and uplifting.  That's how it makes me feel, I am not being forced to feel that way.  Michael believes in the bible and is trying to guide us.  I think it's just another journey for me to explore.  I look for your posts when I don't understand some of the reference to the bible because I know you will explain the meanings very well.  So thank you!  Thanks to all of you actually.  You are all pretty amazing people.  I enjoy all of the different opinions and thoughts.  It amazes me how people think and what they believe in and how they express themselves.  I love it!!  Take care, Love to All
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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paula-c

Re: TIAI 11/19
November 19, 2010, 09:49:36 AM
Michael may be expressed through the Bible, there is nothing wrong, he knows that there are people who are not religious, are messages and do not see it as a way of trying to push their beliefs on people. What do Michael has preached?, Peace, love our fellow animals and nature, to keep the faith, I see nothing wrong with that.
And as the new world order, The most striking prophecies of the Bible found in the last book, called "Revelation" or "Apocalypse," which was recorded by the Apostle John around AD 95. These events, the latest and most amazing panoramic view of the future, culminating event embodies revelations, some already completed, most are still ahead.
The book is presented almost in its entirety, as visions that the author claims to have received from God or Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1-2) and is written in a language quite different from that used in other New Testament books

The Bible reveals that a single world Government, a world Empire, or a world order, which will have, as a Government, A representative there on Earth at the end of the times. In addition, this Global Government will be supported and complemented by a single world religion. Human head this global religion is a character from great charisma, which enjoy acceptance, appreciation and blind obedience of much of the population of the planet. Their main "flags" are: love, mercy, world peace and the brotherhood of peoples

All momentary views of "the things that must happen soon..." (Revelation 1: 1) John reveals, none is more intriguing and appalling that the vision of "The beast" of revelation chapter 13. This is not the first time that she has appeared biblical prophets. Based on detail, it is clear that this is the same frightening creature whose description has already been posted three times. Juan had personally seen twice. Daniel had also seen 600 years earlier.
This beast represents the resurgence of IMPERIO Roman, which will become the COUNTERFEITING SATÁNICA EN scale world of the Kingdom of God. This Empire will be governed at the global level by A single person, A single man, the ANTICHRIST, who will be Satan's representative on Earth.
Rome will retrieve its greatness. The way that controlled the ancient world, will also be the central headquarters for the new world order, the dream of the United Nations

This World Government will not proclaimed instantly, but that the process will be gradually.
Basically the way more effective and strong, is go "globalizing" peoples of their business transactions. In this sense we have clear indications of what progress is being made thereon, taking account of trade agreements that are developing globally, for quite some time, as the European economic community, NAFTA, Mercosur, etc.

The next step, which pasmódicamente has begun to manifest itself powerfully in Europe, is the MONETARIA unification, where the continent is adopting the EURO, abandoning obviously each old currency.
In July 2000, and not with little consternation, the currency is dead forever more ancient Europe: the DRACHMA Greece, which has died in pursuit of "the advancement of the global economy" and the monetary unification of Europe at the hands of the EURO.
The note says that: ".. .many Greek see this change as an indication of the country is losing its personality...". Unfortunately it is a clear indication that you will lose much more than that, and worldwide.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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